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Alex McDowell Blogs On AICN With Exclusive Photos Regarding The Owlship from WATCHMEN!!!
Hey folks, Harry here with a wonderful exclusive from the film WATCHMEN - yes, that pesky bit of brilliance we all hope is imminently upon our horizon. Here we have Alex McDowell's Blog on WATCHMEN - a bit of fun - you should check it out and be caught up with the fun of it. The theatricality of it all. I love that they're doing this - I can't believe they're doing this - in addition - YAHOO has a new Video Production Blog!
WATCHMEN
A mysterious discovery in New York.
In April 2007, shortly after I first met with Zack Snyder and started design work on Watchmen, we received a mysterious call at our Warner Brothers offices from a location scout in New York. He’s found a house he thinks we need to see, and there’s only a short time to see it before it’s going to be demolished.
The next day we fly to NY, taking the cab directly to a brownstone street in Chelsea where we met our contact in front of an abandoned and boarded-up building. He pushes open the peeling front door that has a lock that has been repaired more than once.
Ahead is a long hallway with a dark wood staircase to the right, and a tiled floor leading to a kitchen at the back of the house. It is clear this had once been a wealthy household, but that a single and single-minded person had more recently occupied it. In the kitchen a small table sits in the centre of a wide floor. Remnants of canned food, and a box of sugar cubes are scattered on the counter, alongside a one-cup coffee maker. From the kitchen a butler’s passage leads us to a book-lined study. On the walls are a few pieces of tattered artwork, Audebon prints of birds, mostly owls, and on the floor are white feathers blowing dustily around a desiccated snowy owl. There are remnants of engineering models and drawings scattered through the room. Through an arched opening and half-opened pocket doors we see a dusty, living room, large couch, yellow peeling walls, shuttered widows to the street. On the bookshelves in the study we find books of aviation and exploration, ornithology and mythology, with pages that fall open to Merlin, Archimedes, and Hera.
Our guide pushes against a shelf and a vertical section of the books swing open to a swirl of dust revealing decrepit stairs that lead down into darkness. Zack and I follow them through a brick and plaster basement and to another door, half hidden behind a broken closet.
Our feet hit metal steps that descend through the jack-hammered concrete floor of what looks like a subway maintenance office and down into a flooded subterranean chamber. It’s barely lit but for dirty daylight washing a rotten brick shaft from the street fifty feet above us, and a faulty fluorescent that lights lathes and electronic equipment, corroded electrical blade switches, rusted rail track and a wire-glass enclosed room with a door wedged open to reveal a drawing board, more engineering books, and a sewing machine.
The scout tells us that the tunnel and chamber was once a spur of a forgotten subway, an underground maintenance area for the cars, built in the 1920’s. In 1955, the tunnel suffered a collapse that flooded this section of the system, and the lower portions of the track were abandoned. 100 yards from the repair yard the tunnel now opens up directly to the East River.
Clearly someone had broken into the chamber from above, probably in the sixties, and build the steel stair that connected directly the basement we’d stumbled into.
We could see that the abandoned equipment and gantry crane had been repaired and used as an engineering shop. From the paperwork lying on the work surface, it looks as if this space had been used actively until around 1977, and then abandoned again. Blueprints show working drawings for something that looks like a flying craft, not entirely unfamiliar. It had clearly worked too – we see broken brick and heavy scrapes in the ceiling of the tunnel where it had been steered too close and collided with the walls.
As our eyes adjust to the grey light, we make out a thick plastic sliding door behind which are glimpses of shadowed figures, with the remnants of a rubberized costume still clinging to their limbs, and helmets with electronics spilling from goggles and neck and pointed owl-like ears.
And there, in the center of the old subway maintenance room, under a gantry crane and apparently floating on heavy concrete plinths, is a huge swollen shape, mostly covered by a rotten tarpaulin. Approaching the craft we see circular glass lenses, peering from under the oily fabric like two owl eyes, with a vertical panel running between them, stacked with three broken lights, something that looks like a camera, and a rusted weapon that drips fuel onto the dirty water pooling between the rail tracks.
We approach the unfolded access steps where a thick umbilical of cables snakes through the open hatch into the interior, and glimpse screens and dials and a pilot’s seat rotated towards the hatch. An 8-track player is strapped incongruously to the control panel, and a book ‘Under The Hood’ is wedged into the webbing on the walls.
We are starting to climb the mechanical stairs when there is loud cracking sound from upstairs, and the scout shouts for us to leave. As we race up the stairs and out into the street we hear behind us dull sounds of collapse, and walk quickly away.
Months later I am standing with Zack in a large brick and concrete chamber, with flooded tunnel and rusted tracks, steel stairs leading up through a jack-hammered floor to our right, and shadowy masked figures looming behind thick plastic on the concrete landing. In the center of the chamber, below a heavy steel gantry, is the swollen shape of the flying craft, lights and blinking screens visible through the dusty 4 foot diameter lenses, the interior a cross between military jet and space shuttle. Nite Owl in full costume stands in front of the Owl Ship as the searchlights glare, the engines rotate to vertical, steam expels from below the ship and it begins to rise.
Probably only a handful of the audience of Watchmen will see the extent of the detail that we have lovingly copied into this set from the Brownstone house and underground Chamber that we saw that day, but it is all there, and it makes me happy.
Alex McDowell
February 2008, Vancouver
So Secret I dare Not Show You
Too Secret For Mere Mortals To See
These photos are all we were able to grab as we ran from the collapsing building. They were lying amidst the blueprints and sketches in the chamber, and appear to show the flying craft, mask and suit from their heyday in the 1970’s, the remnants of what we saw in the gloom of the tunnel in that day in Spring 2007, in New York.
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For real.
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in line for this movie.
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I imagine it would be quite popular.
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It's probably doubledown44.
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But it's not the look of things I'm worried about . It's the story structure and themes.
I am still hopeful it will be true to the source and if it isn't I hope at's at least a damn fun ride ! -
Shouldn't it be a little bigger? I know it's for the movie but it looks a little small.
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oh please.
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Only the AICN talkbacks can decide the answer!561 posts to go!
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There's a decent amount of sex in the book, so it could work again here.
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But it will also be a monumental flop.... sorry folks. Love the books though.. got em all, read em all, loved em all.. but I don't see this movie making enough money. It may gain cult status on BluRay and get a steady stream of cash that way, but as far as box office receipts go, it wont make as much as Hellboy did.
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He'd be the man for the job.
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I'm telling you guys that this movie needs a director who understands things like acting and character development.
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I wondered where I left that ship.
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what is this exactly?
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On the couch would be pretty difficult, unless you're working with trained professionals. I'm eager for some Dr. Manhatten Silk Specter 3-way action. See if he can slip that one by the MPAA.
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to the tune of John Denver's "Plant a Tree"...
Save the Squid for our Watchmen
Only Squid can clear the air
Save the Squid, Squid in the Big Apple
Save the Squid, Snyder, to give the world a scare
Your headache, it's Squid inside you
Make a promise to the fans
Save the Squid, now is the time to
Recognize that anything else would be a sham
Save the Squid for our Watchmen
Only Squid can clear the air
Save the Squid, Squid in the Big Apple
Save the Squid, Snyder, to give the world a scare
Lovecraftian Squid will pop in
NYC with psychic scream
Plant a horror for the future
For the death of millions will save everything
Save the Squid for our Watchmen
Only Squid can clear the air
Save the Squid, Squid in the Big Apple
Save the Squid, Snyder, to give the world a scare! -
Damn, I'm getting pretty excited for this. Of course no one else in America will know what the hell this movie is about. I'm rooting for you, Zack!
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Aug 06, 2008 4:43:00 PM CDT
Remember when Moriarty used to do all his stuff like that?
by rev_skarekroe
It was always "I, the evil Dr. Moriarty was reading a leaked draft of Star Wars Ep. I in my laboratory, when suddenly..." and then someone said "Hey, this guy's real name is Drew McWeeney and he's a wannabe screenwriter" and Moriarty's like "You know what? Fuck it."
Me neither. -
...it will be bashed as the most "boring" superhero movie ever. WATCHMEN was more about psychology and mood than action and heroics. I predict a lot of backlash against the movie initially.
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It's a ship powered solely by owls. It's an owl ship.Ta da!
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with a tunnel opening up into the East river 100 yards away? Methinks you've got the wrong river.
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It'll be fine once over-sea's and DVD totals are worked in, plus it is opening in March, not exactly a hotbed for big-budget releases. Leonidas is a fully realized character D-Bag, and with the actors Snyder has cast, I'm looking at you Crudup, he has found the right people to fulfill these characters. I just hope the haters can prepare for a new classic, or they must just simply forget how skeptical they once were.
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I just hope it's good (and that it has a cunty-eyed Squid in it).
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If I had first heard about it, I would be skeptical. But after seeing all the buzz from fans and nonfans alike with the trailer, I'm sure this will make money. This movie would not have worked ten years ago, but I think moviegoers are ready for this sort of movie. I predict a $70 million opening weekend.
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The art was hard on the eyes and holy hell that was one wordy comic book.
I didnt care for the rush job near the all too predictable ending. It felt like they maybe intended for this to go longer and then were told "wrap this up in a few issues" - for about 9 issues it paces and meanders then it rushes out an ending in 2.
and the last part for Rhorshach? That was just dumb. And the whole part on mars? should have been 2 pages long and then done. That whole set was a self indulgent moment for the writer(s) that went on way too long. On film, if that portion is any more than a 10 minute excursion, its going to feel very corny.
and thats kind of my final summation: a good comic that days later, continues to haunt me with images and concepts, but overall it was immensely corny. fun and entertaining, but corny all the way through. -
I'm in the middle of reading Watchmen for the first time. It's ok so far, but I'm not sure where all the orgasmic love comes from for this.
I'm thinking it has a lot to do with the context of when you first read the story. I imagine if I read this as a teenager during the height of the cold war it might have had a greater impact.
I'm gonna finish reading the next half this week, so maybe I will see the light. -
None watch the Watchmen, save DOOM!
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it's better the second time round.an excellent book.
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I think the love comes from Alan Moore's ability to weave multiple layers into a "comic book" format. Watchmen is significantly deeper than the finest works of Frank Miller or Mike Mignola, two great comic authors. The psychology of each character is so interesting but not explicitly spelled out. It's a really good piece of fiction deconstructing the superhero mythos, plain and simple.
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the better it gets.
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Aug 06, 2008 5:17:25 PM CDT
Singer put ridiculous amounts of detail into Superman Returns, t
by snookeroo
Just sayin'.
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But Watchmen looks like it's in good hands.
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good to this very day, but it hard for someone with a modern perspective to appreciate just HOW good it was back then. It along with Frank Miller's Batman deconstructed the superhero genre and built it anew with adult themes and complex stories. The comics (and their respective movies) are built on the framework these comics laid.
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How about screwing up the costume...or worse, having the iconic characters not beahiving like themselves?
But by gum, he made sure that he had some nifty visuals in there... -
I didn't love it but also didn't think it was horrible, I'd likely give it a 6.5 out of 10 and think it is better than any other Superman Movie save 1 & 2. How would you all rank Superman Returns?
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!
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is easily one of the worst movies i've ever seen in my life. A real howler.
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THIS MOVIE LOOKS FUCKING AMAZING! U understand?
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SUCKS GIANT COCKS... Just sayin'...
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it was Malcolm McDowell who played Alex DeLarge in A Clockwork Orange. Try to keep the performers straight from their roles.
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Seriously, why Alan Moore is worshiped like he is is beyond me. Almost as much as the worship of Frank Miller. Both were hardly innovators; they made their works seem "groundbreaking" by turning the superhero genre into something dark and pessimistic. Well, like they say, it's much easier to destroy something than it is to create it. I won't say that Moore has NO talent, but love for his work is blown way out of proportion. Watchmen is mildly entertaining at best, and it's filled with extraneous nonsense (since it was originally only going to be six issues), the worst of which is the incessant pirate comic parallel. The mainstream audience is going to HATE the ending of Watchmen. Only fanboys are wanking to this movie already, and given the amount of money undoubtedly being spent on it, you smell "flop" from a mile away.
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and you talk negatively about it, you're going to piss people off, not me, I'm a sentient program incapable of emotons or whatever, but other people. Also if you're too young to remember the cold war as something that really scared you then some of the resonance will be missing. I'm thirty four now and just read it again and loved it, and noticed things I never noticed before. It's very dense with meta-fiction connections. I'm glad they're doing the pirate thing, but the main point of the pirate piece was that the dialogue and text boxes from the comic within the comic directly related and added weight to the scenes going on simultaneously in the main comic. In some cases they even reveal the thoughts of the characters. Ultimately, in my judgement, the pirate story is a picture of the soul or consciousness of SPOILER the "villain" Veidt. I can see them making the parallel to Veidt's moral journey if they choose, but I don't see how they're going to make the dialogue boxes in the comic/cartoon add to the main story in an ongoing way. Anyone agree/disagree? Don't answer unless you've read it at least three times please. I realize I probably sound like an asshole, but thats what, "I finally read it and it wasn't very good." sounds like to me so... Waugh!!!
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I forgot to yell, "GIANT SQUID!!!!!"
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how so? i assume you dont mean ironically, because thats part of the point of the whole thing - superheros ARE corny. you mean actually. put it alongside any costume comic book and itll look a pretty long way away from corny. fair do's, alongside modern indy efforts it looks a little goofily earnest, but you must understand, if not for watchmen the process leading up to todays standards would never have begun. personally, i didnt find it remotely corny. its got rape, child slaughter, psychological illness, a number of themes i find difficult to call corny. but it does end with a giant psychic squid. thats pure corn gold.
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each time I find something new. I'm gonna hold off till a couple weeks before the film to read it again but damn, I'm excited.
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what was dumb about rorshach's death? think he shoulda gone in a blaze of glory? woulda been totally out of character...would also be nice if you had even attempted to learn the author's name...that's author...as in singular...as in one guy...as in alan moore...and good to know that rape, child molestation, and psychotic behavior by alledged heroes is corny
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My flatemate devoured the book over a couple of days, after finally succumbing to my constant 'READ WATCHMEN' cries. (I suggest leaving a 'REDRUM' style mirror message.)
First off, I LOVE Watchmen. My flatemate is hardly a comic geek and while having an appreciation for the art, I would still consider the general public.
My view on the squid is that I understand that the general public may not get a big octopus and I actually wouldn't be too distraught if it was turned into something that was more easily digestible for them ie. nuclear weapons from an extraterrestrial source, even a nameless/unknown terrorist attack, as long as it had the same result as what Ozy intended.
You know what though, my flatemate was pretty much 'the squid or nothing'. -
Don't read the Watchmen, it's way beyond you; keep re-reading your Liefeld Image comics. "corny all the way through", what a dipshit.
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but the fact that snyder is attempting it is admirable....when greengrass had the property, there was never talk of doing the black freighter or under the hood...greengrass didnt get it...he was going to use the updated hayter script to appeal to guys like polk4t....people who choose not to understand historical context....guess to guys like polk, the manchurian candidate sucks too, cuz he didnt live through the korean war and the red scare
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I can't put my finger on it but I just get this feeling.
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about Image Comics. The women they drew helped a lot of people get through puberty back in the 90's.
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Nice Archie pics though and proof this won't be a complete CG fest. The location is needed as some key scenes happen in there.
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That's why you post on an internet site and don't review books for NY Times.
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whatthe hell is this article? is it real? is it a set the guy was taken to? is it set in2008 looking back on 85 seriously someone tell me whats going on here
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totally how you imagined it to exist in the real world. Excitement building!!
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as time goes on. can't wait.
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If you don't get a lot out of the book, then you have a low IQ. Die.
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Each time the film is merely mentioned it generates an excitement within the cackles of my heart. Cool pictures.
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...which I'm not saying it will be. But even if it is reviled, The Watchmen will endure the same fate as the characters in the books. Distrusted and hated. Someone said the mainstream audience will HATE the ending. That is possible... it's such a cynical bummer, and sudden and unceremonious. I hope they do have the squid though. So long as the CONCEPT OF THE FALSE FLAG OPERATION is made clear to those audiences. That's ultimately why Watchmen is of special interest at this time. The particular story... it's time has come. (i.e. INSIDE JOB!!!!)
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I've probably read it five or so times. I'll read it again before the film comes out. It's true that repeated readings always yield up new details. And it's also true that a first read might be insufficient to really appreciate it.
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Don't get me wrong, seeing that trailer was amazing and I can tell Snyder loves the book. It is just a massive undertaking. If he can pull it off It will earn him directors chops his previous movies haven't even hinted at. That's what makes me nervous, that he has never shown the level of skill needed. But my hope is that his love for the project will bring that skill out. Time will tell, and I'll be there to see it opening night. GIANT SQUID!!!
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But eh whatever I'll reserve my judgement until the film comes out.
But as of now Snyder is shite. -
"Well the graphic novel sucked..." thanks for quickly identifying yourself as a total dumbass so I didn't have to bother reading your post. You should trade your Watchmen graphic novel for a stack of "Hooked on Phonics" books so you can one day have an idea of what the hell you're reading.
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An eye for style and accuracy with the least amount of compromise possible before execs kick him out of the door... but they wouldn't... because he's the Zack Snyder. And I don't know about you guys but he paces movies incredibly well IMO -- more Dawn of the Dead as opposed to 300, which was more of a washboard abs showcase + bad ass cranked battles. That's not to say 300 sucked by any degree... it severely ravaged my asshole, and just as I fully recovered from the damage TDK had me holding my ankles once again. So, with that said, WATCHMEN ftw. I got your back ZS.
- GSantos -
If I don't like the "masterpiece" Watchmen, then clearly it's because I just don't "get" it. Or, assume I'm a teenager who's never experienced the cold war. Well, wrong on both counts. Yes, there are reflections of the Cold War in Watchmen, as well as TDKR, but they're tangential to the real focus of both stories, which is about destroying the superhero myth. Chew on these opinions: the pirate story in Watchmen is annoying, distracting and obnoxious, and despite any parallels it may present to the main storyline, is a worthless waste of ink. It, like much of the story, seems to me to be filler used to up the page count when the creative team was told to make it a twelve-issue series instead of six. Seriously, people I found the daily Bloom County comics to be a better parody of the Cold War than this.
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Image's women have probably saved us from a number of lunatics going postal.
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I'm actually 33, so I lived thru a chunk of the cold war, but I didn't read the graphic novel back then. Just saying it may have had more impact if I had read it then.
In my opinion, the book relies heavily on cold war fear and paranoia to set the tone.
I stopped buying comic books when I was 13 or 14 and mostly read X-Men and Punisher so I'm definitely not qualified to discuss how Watchmen redefined the genre. However, I was thinking that the story might transcende the genre, and I'm not sure that it does. Maybe the movie will prove me wrong. BTW I am not saying that the story is not interesting or good, just that I haven't been blown away like I expected from such a highly regarded book. -
..for your startling revelation that 50% of the Watchmen is nothing more than filler. Next time I read it I will skip the back stories and even the pictures by that "Gibbons" guy. Actually, please send me your startling synopsis for all future comics so I can annihilate filler in the future.
Seriously, besides the comics themselves, Dave Gibbons new book "Watching The Watchmen" completely proves how fucking idiotic your opinions are; as discussed in San Diego. Don't bother reading it until after you successfully complete at least through the letter "R" in your "Hooked On Phonics" series. -
How is that not pertinent to the story ?
And you say destroying the Superhero myth is the main focus but you then cite a parody of the cold war (which you consider to be tangential to Watchmen) as a better example of a story than Watchmen ???
Since you certainly don't seem very sure what this is about then let me give you a hint.The deconstruction (NOT destruction) of the Superhero Team by placing them in a far more believable world with complex motivations involving psychological studies of the characters along with the resultant cultural and political implications of their existance and deeds. -
funny how neither the dark knight returns nor watchmen were groundbreaking, yet every batman movie that worked has taken from dkr and movies like the incredibles and shows like lost owe their success to watchmen...if you are gonna fucking hate, do it intelligently and not that old, "hey ma, watch this, im gonna piss people off on a internet board" guess those idiots over at time were fucking stupid when they listed watchmen in the top 100 novels (not comics, novels) of the 20th century
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...is not meant to be a startling revelation. It IS, however, one of many reasons I didn't like the graphic novel. I often found it flat-out boring to read. Now you will notice I am not negating the opinions of dozens of critics who have lauded the book, or anyone else's deep and hard-hitting analysis. I'm telling you why I thought the graphic novel was just plain not entertaining to me. I liked some parts and some characters, but much like a lot of Alan Moore's other work, I finished it and said, "That's it?" And I will come clean-- while I did live through the Cold War, I did not read Watchmen until the early 2000s as I only have been into comics for the last ten years or so. But that doesn't make my opinion any less valid. A true work of art should stand on its own merit regardless of when you experience it. I am well aware that I'm in the minority opinion about Watchmen. But I don't think this movie is going to be successful. The source material simply isn't a big deal in the mainstream.
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Aug 06, 2008 8:02:09 PM CDT
Tales From The Blackf Freighter is "the pirate story" dumbass
by fearfulsymmetry
Ozymandius telling Dr. Manhattan after his plan is complete "I dream about swimming towards a hideous..." spells out the importance of the Tales of The Black Freighter, which numbnuts RongoRongoMu refers to as "the pirate story". Numbnut's "worthless filler backstory" also depicts how in the Watchmen's world, EC Comics thrived past the Comics Code, which of course was not the case. Although RongoRongoMu has no clue about any of that.
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two totally different experiences, so it is up to you
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Aug 06, 2008 8:20:54 PM CDT
It would be interesting to see the Movie before reading the book
by g100
But if I were you Colby I'd steer WELL clear of these Talkbacks because in almost all of them crucial plot points get disclosed sooner or later.
Oh and on a purely mercenary note the price of the Watchmen might well rise a bit as the Movie draws ever closer. So ordering it now could be an idea. ;-)
Sorry but there's no way I can take very seriously anyone who considers the Watchmen "boring".
Admittedly there isn't an explosion or the punching of a villain in every other panel so if that's what you crave, look elsewher.
But discovering exactly why Rorschach is Rorschach and why all the characters are who they are running alongside the main mysterious and complex conspiracy plotline was... no I can't quite remember the word.
What's the polar opposite of "boring" ? -
but then you say the book was about destroying the super hero myth??? not even bud...so you dont get it...
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Show the gat-damn ship!
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...was probably my favorite chapter, followed by Dr. Manhattan's. I'm not saying there aren't enjoyable elements in the book. It doesn't have to be black and white. The things I found boring were the flashbacks, the pirate story, the fake supplemental material, and all the angst. And by the way, you can make a blanket statement to not take me seriously since I thought Watchmen was boring, but basing your opinion of someone's intelligence/taste on their reaction to ONE creative work almost makes me want to say the same about you.
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Even more than Squidy I simply can't BELIEVE Snyder would be dumb enough to let a Nazi German accent creep in to Ozy. Completely misses the fucking point of the guy.
Then again his whole casting and re-imagining of Ozy sticks out like a sore thumb so far and is a legitemate cause for concern. -
It would be a lot easier on everyone if you just said "I didn't like it." I don't like Picasso. You don't HAVE to like the masterpiece (and let's be clear Watchmen IS a masterpiece) to accept it as such. Trying to downplay Watchmen with this "filler" crap is just going to tick the others off and make you look like an idiot. There is no filler. Every word and line is there for a reason. If it was extended from 6 issues to 12 we should all thank our lucky stars. Yeah you could cut it down to 6 books but it would lose it's scope.
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Make your mind up as you can't have one without the other.
And the whole POINT of Doctor Manhattan is that NOTHING is a flashback. Everything is simultaneous to him.
The whole Watchmen book plays around and with linear idea of time at crucial points.
I admit the supplemental material is "wordy" but it's hardly that great a barrier to it's enjoyment. Particularly as it shows how well realised the world is. You can see the foundations for all the characters in much of the word based articles and the charcters simply wouldn't come alive as well as they do in the main story if Moore hadn't thought them out and done the backstory of them all to the degree that the supplemental material shows he did.
Put plainly, Rorschach wouldn't be Rorschach without the extraordinary level of character study and detail the articles show.
The Black Freighter is a nice tale in an of itself but it is never supposed to supplant or overshadow the main Watchmen story.
It's used to highlight and counterpoint the actions in the main story. Visually and narratively. It's not in the Movie but it will be on the DVD in some form.
But it's also deeply rooted in the main story since the newspaper vendor and the boy are used throughout the book as a sort of "anchor" to the world outside the main characters. They are the everyman getting on with his job and the comic book fan Moore knows his work is aimed squarely at.
It's not "filler". It's in the story for a reason. -
The movie will be tighter anyway Rongo.
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they loved them so much, they made a tv show about it
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the whole concept of giving a reason for why ozy is ozy is a mistake...same mistake that lucas made when trying to explain vader...there is a reason why ozy is not given the same treatment as the other characters...we never get to really see his history, only his public persona...but it could be worse, zack couldve decided to do some flashbacks into ozy's youth and shown a bad ass pod race
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I don't believe I've met some of you. My name's Micturatingbenjamin, and I'm addicted to comic books, funny books, and comic strips. Illustrated tales and graphic novels, the funny papers are what I've been addicted to since I was two years old. My first book was the comic version of the Disney cartoon of The Three Little Pigs. The one with the terrifying Big Bad Wolf.Establishing cred is part of the patter round here, so I figure I'd lay some stuff on the table. Watchmen is a novel in comic form. It's the way I'd describe it, and its the misnomer of 'comic book' that have people who read it thinking they're stepping into another issue of YOUNGBLOOD or WildC.A.T.S. It's far and away the best treatise on the form of the comic book, and the first time a sense of verite was used to describe the 'super hero'.I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, especially those who aren't the stamp collector versions of comic readers. This movie is probably streamlined and stripped down, to all the negative folks out there, but I see the trailer, and the posters over at SuperHero Hype, and I see a guy who fucking understands the ideas within the movie. Take a look over there...http://tinyurl.com/5bf4j4
Look at how NUDE Manhattan is. Look at the Silk Spectre II shot. Look at her mother. This guy has altered the look, but has NAILED the spirit of the comic. And yeah, I know that this is a still shot, but if that doesn't convey the HEART of the book, the very essence of one of the main themes -- The visage versus the actual -- of the book, nothing could.The trailer is fantastic for fans. But these shots are fucking incredible.Oh yeah. I swear, sorry. No spoilers here, just take a look at those shots and tell me he doesn't know what Watchmen is about. -
No one here seems to hate on this, which is nice.Ozymandias has a whole issue dedicated to his past. It's chapter 10 I think. I don't have my book handy, here. He explains his entire life to his servants, some refugees he helped. Also, he goes over his life with an interviewer in a 'filler' (sic) section of the novel.The 'team' on the book was Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. DC didn't care about the length of the series, really, more than having rights in perpetuity to the Watchmen books. Which they do. Which Moore HATES.But when you say 'I get the story' then state things that are not accurate, unless you read the Cliff's notes version of the book or just skimmed it. I don't know you guys, but you sound like dudes who picked up the book and skimmed through it.
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Seriously, think about it.
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Aug 06, 2008 9:29:43 PM CDT
This is the most BLATANT and PATHETIC GEEK Baiting I've EVER SEE
by cinemajerk
Viral marketing at it's most obvious and manipulating best. And you fan boys are lapping it up like good little automatons. If I wanted to be jerked off I'd rather it be by some hot babe. Not by some cheap hollywood studio ploy to stroke your geek factor and get you all hot and bothered about a movie that will probably suck. A man in an owl costume? As William Shatner once said, "GET A LIFE!" Move out of your mom's basement. Get a job. Find a REAL girl and stop getting excited about bullcrap like this.
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The Reagan quote came after Watchmen was finished. I'll tell you a story that predated Watchmen and used the alien-invasion-brings-humanity-together idea. Robotech The Macross Saga, of course there, it was a two or three page throw away idea at the beginning of the whole story. Giant Squid!!!
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I admire you for not backing off your opinions and I'm glad to hear you have the cold war perspective. Two things. 1. You don't NEED the cold war thing to appreciate the book in my opinion, but it just makes the thing feel more relevant and immediate. I still think the story has resonance to todays world, but the connections are more generalized. 2. I would advise you to read the book again, not because I think you didn't "get it" but because I think there is more there for you. We all come to this site because we love to be entertained and I really think there's still some entertainment to be had for you there. Wait a few months, read again slowly, with groking and cherishing. Also, sorry for assuming you were a teenager. Am I at least correct in assuming you are a geek?
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giant squid
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Is that what you call it when I have the OTHER window open whilst I talkback? I've gotten really good at typing with one hand thanks to that window. I AM the viral market for this movie biatches!!! As long as GIANT SQUID!!!!
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Enormous Cephalopod!!!!!
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Does the movie really need this? Couldnt they just choose some other hellish catastrophe for Ozy to unleash upon NYC? Understandably I'm guessing they dont want to make this too reminiscent of 9-11 so maybe The Squid is the best choice. Who the hell could offended by a giant squid attack? But still, I just read Watchmen for the first time and the only thing I dont "get" is "The Squid" (and I thought the ending was a little anti-climatic).
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Yeah buddy you tell those geeks what a waste of time they are while wasting your time logging onto and typing a Trolling message a 12 year old would be embarrassed by. Typing it specifically in a talkback devoted to a comic book adaptation to the Big Screen.
That showed them!!! You really tore those geeks a new one didn't you ?
Jesus fucking christ. What a loser.
Shatner was subject to crazy trekkers all his life so his response was understandable. (though he'd be a nobody without Trek)
Showing interst in a book or Movie you like isn't a pre-requisite for any juvenile geek stereotypes I'm afraid. But keep on trolling little man.
You are, if nothing else, an amusing distraction.
BTW Veidt is Charles Atlas. Veidt is a self made man. His physique is a reflection of his striving for perfection and there is NOTHING dark about him.
Veidt in the Movie so far is bafflingly wide of the mark even without the stupid Nazi Accent. -
from black & white European promotional posters from 1988 promoting the comics over there. In Europe they were published two issues in one - hence only 6 comics. I've got the originals. I've only got one problem with re-makes or adaptations and that is if they don't have respect for the source material (read Tim Burton). So Zacks still got my faith at this point. Peace.
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Dammit. Okay, here's the fucking deal. It's not a fucking squid, it's a Cthuloid monstrosity designed by geniuses that Veidt brought to his island to design in such a way that when people see it, it activates that arachnid reaction in our mammalian brains. The section on the missing writer...you know the text without fucking colored pictures? Talks about how strange his novels and shit were, about how his books were considered pornography.A modern analog would be that someone hired Cronenberg, Lynch, and Peter Straub to come up with something that would fuck with our brains just LOOKING at it, much less sending imagery that would drive people close to the event mad, and leave people around the world with nightmares about its arrival.Those yellow fucking boxes contain text with information in them for a reason. It's not a fucking squid. It's a tentacled thing from Dimension X that is never fully shown in its entirety. And that works in this filmmaker's favor...but judging from the fact that Manhattan's dong is going to be hanging out, this movie is going to be faithful to the story.Hope this clears things up.
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. . .because that book has enough story to pack 12 hours, easy.
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Do you have scans of that? I'd love to see those. Man, Dave Gibbons was really good at showing subtext in the drawings...For example at the Rockefeller base, the Superman logo on the shield? Fucking brilliance in iconography, mixing the two.
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and i'm very enthused. can't wait.
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who watches the watchmen...its the heroes in the book (or at least Veidt). They watch the superpower governments...and try to keep them in check.
If you think of the governments as the watchmen who arent doing their jobs, rather than the superheroes in the book who are outlawed its a totally different spin. I hope that came out right. I basically just flipped the story in my head and blew my mind. -
It's the thing that should not be. Simultaneously conveying it's complete incongruity and having nothing to do earth (thus never being in any danger of being mistaken for an attack or ploy by another superpower) but at the same time it's got to be REAL enough to destroy the centre of NYC and kill thousands of people.
But I still like calling it squiddy. -
it's so the earth would band together against an alien threat and no longer war amongst each other.
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Don't make Snyder trim it, Warner Bros. We want to see every frame he intends us to see, IN THE THEATER!!!
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Thanks for respecting my opinion. I usually don't even post in topics because we all know what a three-ring circus it is. Guess I broke my own personal rule and had to suffer the slings and arrows as a result. :-)
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sorry, but you cant say that you "get it" and then ramble off things showing that you dont...and i really hope you arent a fan of lost, or heroes, or the incredibles, or a myriad of other movies and tv shows that have "borrowed" from watchmen
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...do the novelization of the movie? I don't think there's any Marvel movies coming out that he'll have to pay for the new swimming pool to write up.
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I read the series twice, and just bought an original set. My main problem is that I get so enthusiastic about getting to the end of the story that I can't be bothered with the "pirate story" I think the character's motives are so well portrayed that the extra commentary is unnecessary. I feel the story-within-a-story idea is an flourish that is not needed since he did such a good job portraying the motives of Veidt and Rorschach. The supplemental text additions are VERY nice though and I very much enjoyed them the first time I read through. The flashbacks are stellar, and the brief backstory on Veidt is more than adequate to explain his motives. In fact - I believe skipping the Pirate stuff actually makes Rorschach and Veidt and Manhattan more interesting because their morality is at once hideous and appealing. More power to you for taking a stand.
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We already saw the bloody thing in the trailer.
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The 'pirate story' is also there to give us an insight into the twisted brain of the comic's writer, who is the one who comes up with the fucked-up thoughts that the 'squid' telepathically sends out to people.
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...And commutes here to do design work for Zack Snyder? And he doesn't really design shit, just steals designs from stuff he's seen in his own universe, stuff which, while commonplace there doesn't exist here? That doesn't seem right!
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Well said sir. Wathcman is way over hyped as a graphic novel...it's good, but not great. And now to Frank Miller...what can I say, most overrated POS on the earth. Oh...I know the fanboys will cringe, but honestly his take on Batman is the worst one, he tries waaaaayyyy to hard to be all 'dark' and 'New York', stories are terrible and the drawings are even worse. Count me out for seeing Spirit which looks equally lame as Sin City...alright...bring the hate...
TNA -
Should be the first thing to get cut. I won't work well on film, and cutting it will give more time for other stuff, like the rape storyline.
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I may have to see the film now.
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Not surprised no one has made this into a movie yet.. Unlike the graphic novel of TDK, The Watchmen has stuck in my mind, concepts and puzzles and mysteries still remain, even now. Did the 'rape' ever *really* happen? If Rorshach was discombobulated, could he subsequently be put back together again by the one who discombobulated him? Why did Moore's women all look like dudes?
Anyway, I am kind of in the crowd who worries that the great unwashed will not end up liking this movie, because a 'feel good story' it definitely is not.
And as for the 'Cold War' flavor.. frankly, by the mid-80's, people were not terrified by the constant threat of nuclear attack as they had been in, say, the 60's, which is, I guess, why it was safe enough a concept to make a comic about. But that part of it definitely feels dated now, and may have a hard time resonating today, especially with the 'under 30' crowd.
I just worry that, if they stay faithful to the book all the way down to the last frame, when we get the punchline of the whole sick demented joke in the very final panel, that people just aren't going to leave the theater happy. Doesn't mean it'll be a bad movie - on the contrary, if it DOESN'T end that way, then it will definitely have been screwed up. Just that it won't wind up being a very big commercial success, but hey, TDK is pretty dark too and it's about to become the all timer, so who knows? -
It's the whole point of the book, and is ripe for a fairly close but even more grotesque and horrifying depiction. We need it to be something that would make Guillermo Del Toro cream his jeans and die of fright at the same time.
Everybody who's afraid of another 'Galactus Cloud' climax, relax - Warners are throwing money at this movie hand over fist, and the ONE fucking thing they're gonna make sure remains is the Squid.
Normal people (ie non-comic readers) would ultimately enjoy the movie sans squid anyway, but because of the (to normal people) stupid costumes and hertofore unknown characters, they wouldn't go out of their way to recommend it to other friends - UNLESS there was something beyond the requisite depth, action and character development... We're talking 'wow factor' - hence the Squid Is In.
That means Johnny Public gets something basic to write home about (with a considerate omission of spoilers, hopefully), while the rest of us fully initiated nerderbators also get a movie worthy of calling itself THE definitive adaptation of one of the greatest stories EVER told. -
I write a short little talkback, and because its not "NY Times" quality book review material, its not valid? Not a single person in this talkback writes book reviews for the NY Times so your blind fanboyism for this comic is equally invalid. I said I liked it. I said it had images and characters and story that continue to echo in the back of your mind for days and weeks after reading it, but I said that vast portions of it are corny.
Sorry but it remains true. It is a corny comic book whose biggest accomplishment is making heroes with a good portion of asshole to their personalities. I guess Im deflated because after all the hype and hysteria, I expected something that would make Chaucer look like a babbling idiot. Instead, I got a Super Friends Having Sex mini-series with a rushed ending and long long looooong periods of navel gazing in the middle. It was a fun comic to read - an enjoyable diversion. But I seriously dont believe it will translate well to film, no matter how awesome the costumes and flying owlships look in the promotional photographs. How many panels were used during the psychological profiling of Rhorshach? A lot. And then the story wanders off into the personal life of his psychologist. It can work in a comic book because the reason you read comics as opposed to novels, is for their artistic style. The story doesn't have to have epic Shakesperean dialogue or sweeping Hitchcockian camera work, because as long as both are reasonably good, they combine to make a great comic. Its okay to spend vast numbers of pages on a boy reading a comic-within-a-comic because while doing so, we see what goes on in this world while our heroes are elsewhere. In a movie, its a huge risk to spend vast amounts of time with scenes entirely populated by background walk-on characters.
But because I didn't post pictures of my wet pants while reading Watchmen, Im not valid - and because Im not working for the New York Times, my opinion doesn't matter. What an absolutely retarded thing to say. I get what you're all saying about the influence this comic had, and I get what you're saying about how it cracked open the doorway to a whole genre of 'flawed hero' comics and movies - Im just saying that its been hyped by avid fans to such high levels, that you've made it nearly impossible for anyone else to ever fully fall in love with this comic mini-series. You've set the stage so that at best, they're going to say what I and several others have said in this talkback: it was good, but where's the part that changes my life? Where's the part that makes all the confusing parts about living in this world make sense? Its a comic book about super heroes having lots of sex and killing people. That's it. If I were 15 and reading this, sure I'd love it. It was blow my mind that a comic book could actually get away with some of these concepts. When I was 15, I read the Count of Monte Cristo, and it had the same exact content. It was the first novel I read that contained sex, violence, murder, revenge. Im sure if you read a talkback about how Alexander Dumas was the greatest writer ever and his epic Monte Cristo novel changed the way I view the world and my life and the universe and cubes of sugar, that you'd read it and say: "yeah it was good, but...."
But just make sure you DONT actually do that unless you are an employee of the New York Times. Otherwise, Im just going to tell you how your opinion doesn't matter because you're not reviewing it professionally.
retarded. -
THANK YOU for explaining the writer's role. I thought he was there to draw what he thought would be a scary creature, and was confused when his bengali concubine was the one actually drawing it. At that point, I wasn't sure what he was actually there for. Now it makes sense. thanks.
(Im sure the comic explains this somewhere, but as others have said, it might take an extra read or two in order to pick up missed plot points. Unfortunately, I dont think people will be willing to watch a movie 3 or 4 times in order to 'get it') -
I don't have problem with you not working for the New York times - and appreciate your non-infatuated take on the Watchmem graphic novel, even though I 100% percent disagree with it.
I'd be interested to know if there's any work in the comics medium that your think ranks with 'high literature' - and if not, is it because you think the splicing of writing and illustration is intrinsically redundant? Because I think that'd be a pretty sweeping statement... -
and make all superhero movies more realistic. Seriously.
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Frankly dude, you're embarrassing yourself. Alan Moore's creation is a fucking mind-blowing masterwork. I've read the thing ten fucking times and it still rapes my brain every time i read it anew. The reason Moore has garnered the acclaim and attention he has is due in large part to the fact that he is exploring larger concepts and themes - using the comic book format as a springboard. You'd do well to watch "The Mindscape of Alan Moore" - a documentary that lays out his philosophy on magick, shamanism, the universe and our place in it. The guy operates on a whole other level and brings something quite remarkable to the comic form - thank fuck he has because the comics world would be a poorer place without him. If you don't "get it" - fine - it ain't a crime against humanity - but just know enough to stand the fuck back, take a deep breath and realize that your feeble fucking brain just doesn't comprehend what Moore is trying to do with 'Watchmen'. And one last thing, to quote you:
" And I will come clean-- while I did live through the Cold War, I did not read Watchmen until the early 2000s as I only have been into comics for the last ten years or so. But that doesn't make my opinion any less valid."
Yes it fucking does. Sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. -
Great characters. Great story. Great ideas. Great comic book. That is all.
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...you just don't. The things that Moore and Gibbons accomplished in Watchmen had never been done before and probably never will again. The writing and art mesh seamlessly to create a work of absolute genius on every level. Granted, some people just don't "get it" and you're obviously one of those people. Hey, it happens.
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The dude called emailed me and called me a nigger. what a fucking asshole.
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ghost: I dont think you're even reading what I said. To address your concerns that I dont consider comics to be a worthwhile art medium, I have to refer you back to the post you're referring to yourself. I covered my thoughts on comics as an art medium right there.
Kid: yeah its okay if I dont 'get it', but theres a lot of people who are saying, "well you cant get it by just reading it once" or "dont bother discussing if you've read it less than 3 times."
So my question is: how many times do you think the general movie-going public is going to pay to watch a movie in order to be able to (a) understand whats going on in it and (b) discuss it with people who defend it like a contested gold mine. I read the comic - at this point, I think Im entitled to an opinion. The notion that I have no idea what Im talking about or have any respect for the groundbreaking strikes its creative team accomplished is not even a concern of mine. I dont care if copies of this comic can cure melanoma if you rub its pages on your skin. I just wanted to share my thoughts having read it. Now if you dont mind, I have to go. I may be onto something with this page rubbing thing.
As for mr. Salad, I assure you that the only emails I've sent to him are my nude portraits. So far, my love-sick cries for his affections go unanswered. -
Catch AIDS and die.
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I hope you get throat cancer.
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Even with the alterations to the suit, so far Nite Owl 2 is shaping up to be the best part of this movie. Patrick Wilson is a beast, he's going to be great in it. The rest of the casting has been pretty underwhelming, though... when reading the book, Ozymandius struck me as a truly imposing, near-awe-inspiring figure. Someone of such sound body and mind that you wouldn't even want to be in the room with him because you'd be afraid that you'd embarass yourself. None of what I just said comes to mind when I think of Matthew Goode. Shit, I could probably take Matthew Goode in a fight. Shame.
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Could budgetary restraints be the reason behind the rumor of the Squid being removed/replaced? I remember reading that Snyder couldn't secure the budget he wanted, and that was one of the reasons that names like Jude Law and Keanu Reeves bailed out(that might all just be rumor, though). While the alien would be bad as all hell on screen, I don't care if they replace it, so long as the intent and reprecussions remain intact. Ozymandius's scheme is all at once genocidal, dispicable, necessary, and even... noble? Such a great, great ending.
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He looks pretty familiar with weiner schnitzel that's for sure. ☺
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jeh is underwhelming??? you havent been paying attention
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Sort of like, "Yeargh! Its madness from beyond the moon! THE THING THAT SHOULD NOT BE!" Also, you'll notice Moore/Gibbons don't use full splash pages until things get Squidy because then, when you see it in full pages, the WTF factor hits you harder.
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Accept no lame substitutes. Any other plan will fail. A mind-blasting, Lovecraftian threat from Beyond is all that CAN work in THE WATCHMEN to prevent nuclear apocalypse. A 9/11 like attack is child's play. We've already seen where that leads. Veidt would know better. The threat must be non-human AND in fact not at all associated with humanity or a particular country (e.g., Doc Manhattan). Little green men, robots or conventional aliens wouldn't work because a huge segment of the population wouldn't buy it. But the still-warm corpse of a titanic Cthulhoid, organic horror from another dimension killing and driving humans mad just from its sheer presence--who could fake that? How could ANYone fathom that the psychic screams reverberating throughout the world could be faked? EVERYone on earth (aside from a very few) would buy that kind of enormous, gruesome evidence, and it would force humanity to naturally consolidate for quite some time despite the cultural differences and grievances between its disparate groups. No longer USA vs. Soviet Union. It's the Earth vs. the Horrors from Beyond. The Squid MUST be in.
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not THE WATCHMEN.
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...And the squid leaves too much evidence lying around. It is terrestrial, you know, not some silicon-based life-form or something.
Discuss. Flame. Whatever. -
I would say I pretty much agreed with you after my first read of Watchmen, but having gone through it 5 or so times now over the last 5 years, it amazes me more each time I read it. So many wonderful incidences of what seem like synchronicity, but which are all amazingly well-thought-out ideas.
The confusing bits all turn out to make amazing sense when you read it from a different angle the second and third times. And I'm sure that's deliberate. Very clever book. -
I also wanted to say that the parts that seem irrelevant the first time round all turn out to have some bearing on what ultimately happens. You just don't necessarily notice that first time through the book.
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I agree that the Black Freighter is too time-consuming and subtle for a film adaptation.I'm not sure why scientists would assume that an alien life form would not be carbon-based, though. It certainly wouldn't be a no-brainer (har har) to assume that such a spectacularly complicated and horrific creature could possibly be manufactured by humans, however much terrestrial goo remained.Still... interesting point.
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about how Doc. Manhattan was having strange visions of the pirate story, which was being read right in the epicenter of the squid's eminent death. A place where backwards traveling tachyons were focused to block Doc's omniscience. Pretty cool.
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Squiddy is predicated on the existence of real psychics (or "sensitives"), which makes you wonder why there are no psychic superheroes/villains. A little too convenient.
I'm just saying the world's smartest man should be able to come up with a more elegant plan, with fewer weak points for investigators to examine. -
Do you feel better now that you've got that off of your concave chest?
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The so called sensitives are just icing on the cake. Normal folks would have nightmares about that fucking monstrosity for years too. You did bring up a great point about the squid being terrestrial, though. The problem wouldn't be that it was made of regular organic matter--the problem would be that the thing's DNA would be largely human! That's a problem that Moore would've dealt with if he was writing WATCHMEN now no doubt.
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Yeah, that's what everyone who reads the Watchmen thinks. How Corny. And how apt the actual meaning of the word is.
(Still looking for the rolleyes emoticon)
Frankly it's fairly irrelevant at this point if some people don't get Watchmen or think they have a more informed opinion of it with little to back it up.
You don't need to like it. But you certainly aren't going to alter how it is percieved. The jury was in decades ago. It's considered one of the best comics ever written and a Quantum Leap in the medium.
Were I to post on every board on every website in the world for the next 100 years nothing would change that assessment either way.
Think of it like The Wire. I don't need dozens of critics lauding it and never did to know it is one of the best TV shows ever made. But it's pretty much accepted it is and that isn't about to change.
If some are incapable of seeing how Watchmen radically altered how Comics and the stories they told were constructed, written and regarded and the influence it has had on popular culture then you just don't see it and aren't about to start.
If you don't think Comics are a valid Medium I also cannot help you. You should perhaps have took the lesson from Photography, TV and Cinema. Since they were considered "vulgar" and unable to convey deep meaning for much of their early formative years. Nobody argues that horseshit anymore.
If however you think that Watchmen fails to properly utilise or expand on the medium then argue that. There are plenty of examples of how it uses the conventions of the comic book and pushes them further than they had before to counter such a view.
Calling the protagonists assholes for example is pretty fucking thin stuff TBH. (not to mention wrong)
Why not simply tell us which comic book was more revolutionary since you are so sure that Watchmen is little more than "corny" ?
"Its a comic book about super heroes having lots of sex and killing people." Puuuuhleeeaaase. Change the Superheroes to Gods or Gangsters or Kings or Politicians and how many other works of fiction do you think we could shoehorn into that vapid description if we wanted to ?
You also complain that the Watchmen is too "wordy" then try to retreat into a defense that it somehow wasn't Chaucer or Shakespeare ?? Who the fuck claimed it was ???
Perhaps you were expecting the denizens of New York in a fictionialised world of 1985 to speak in Elizabethan English or Middle English ??
Hard to say, but I DO know namedropping a couple of Giants of Literature is neither here nor there with regard to the quality of Watchmen.
I would also point out that since you somehow missed the entire point of "The Abyss gazes also" (One of the most well known and cited chapters in the book since it focuses on Rorschach) then perhaps arguing that your own view as a well informed one falls down just a touch.
The clue is that however the Movie chooses to utilise the Psychiatrist (not Psychologist)his importance in the book and that chapter is as plain as the blots on his cards. Far from "wandering off" his part of the story is pivotal in showing how Rorshach is far from an "asshole". Dr Malcolms relationship and views change to reflect the main theme of the chapter and the Nitszchean quote it is based on.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This would be mine. -
The only thing I've seen JEH in was "Little Children." He clearly showed his acting chops in that movie, but his role as a stuttering pedophile didn't really sell me on his ability to play Rorschach. I'm giving him every chance in the world, though, as I know he's probably the biggest fan of the source material amongst the cast members. I think I'm just bitter because I always envisioned Brad Dourif when I was reading the book. Then again, I picture Brad Dourif in just about every manic sociopath role.
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