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David Goyer Freaks Out Beaks with THE UNBORN!
David Goyer's Comic Con presentation for THE UNBORN was so impressive, I nearly frittered away all my time with the writer-director before getting a Batman question in. Nearly. We get to it at the end. Not that there's a whole lot to discuss (other than "Is $500 million possible?").
But let's concentrate on THE UNBORN, Goyer's ultra-freaky exorcism yarn starring the delectable Odette Yustman (Beth from CLOVERFIELD) as a young woman possessed by the none-too-happy spirit of her stillborn twin brother. To drive the resurgent little sucker out of her rockin' bod (can it be a coincidence that this is produced by Michael Bay?), a non-Catholic exorcist (Gary Oldman) is consulted. Okay, so the bare-bones plot description isn't a world beater. Trust me, you'd be dialing up your "meh" to a "Why'd you wait four films to make a proper horror film, Goyer!" if you saw this footage. Some of it might be familiar (there's an institutionalized old man doing the Regan spider walk in one scene), but the bulk of the imagery will surely haunt my ever-so-slightly feverish dreams this evening (love getting sick at Comic Con!). If I had to describe the tone, it'd be SESSION 9 crossed with THE EXORCIST III - with more masked dogs.
While the footage was encouraging, Goyer's enthusiasm as we chatted in the green room following the panel was the closer. He's clearly proud of this film, and fully committed to making a horror film that stays with you long after the shock from the KNB gore gags has worn off. Then again, I'm a sucker for any movie that combines fused placentas, heterochromia, Kabbalah, potato bugs and Josef Mengele. It's been too long, really.
No skipping to THE DARK KNIGHT answers! You owe Goyer this much.
Beaks: So this is going in a different direction for you. Or it's at least different from what you've been doing.
David Goyer: Or maybe it's back to the stuff that I was known for. I've never done a straight-out horror film. God knows, I'm a fan, but it wasn't like I said "Okay, I'm going to do a horror film." I just had this idea, and it was a horror idea. Then once I started working on it... I just don't think, in the last ten or twenty years, that there have been that many truly good horror films. I thought the original RING was good... I thought THE OTHERS was good... I liked [THE EXORCISM OF] EMILY ROSE... I liked MOTHMAN PROPHECIES... I liked SESSION 9... and that's about it.
Beaks: It sounds like you enjoy things with a slow mounting sense of dread.
Goyer: I do. Don't get me wrong, I liked the remake of THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, but it didn't scare me. It shocked me, but it didn't scare me. And I like stuff that creeps me out. SESSION 9 really creeped me out. And there's one scene in THE MOTHMAN PROPHECIES where he gets the call from... I can't remember the character's name (and neither can Beaks)... but it creeped me out. And sometimes Lynch does stuff in his films...
Beaks: With sound.
Goyer: Yeah, with sound. And there's that moment in MULHOLLAND DR. where the guys go back by the dumpster. I find that stuff really disturbing. I find perversions in real life disturbing, so... I guess I was kind of going for that. I think torture porn... there's obviously a place for it, but it's maligned the genre. And it's very hard at studios to say, "I'm going to do a serious horror film" - even though THE RING was successful. So I thought, "Can I do something that's scary that also has credible acting in it?" Which is why we went for people like Jane Alexander and Gary Oldman.
Beaks: It must be gratifying to get those actors, especially since this is your first original screenplay in ten years.
Goyer: I was flattered. And, trust me, Gary didn't do it just because of my association with BATMAN BEGINS. He really liked the script. He thought it was smart and different. I think Gary's one of the top five or ten actors in the world. It also... I've done so many adaptations and things like that, and it just kind of reminded me to go back to my roots and do something original, do something that you find scary that comes from you. It's very rewarding to have somebody like Gary Oldman say, "Yeah, I want to do it."
Beaks: In writing the script, did you think in terms of what is essentially THE EXORCIST idiom, or did you try to get in there and explode those conventions?
Goyer: It started from this notion of having an unborn twin. I saw this news piece about people who grew up as only children and found out that, in utero, they had a twin that died, and for one reason or another, their parents never told them. There's a whole series of support groups for these people. So I thought, "Well, that's a really broad idea." And that led me to thinking, "What would that unborn twin had been like?" And in particular... sometimes what happens with unborn twins is that there's this instance where, with fraternal twins, the placentas become fused. They'll have one placenta. And the umbilical cord of one twin will get wrapped around the throat of the other and strangle it. But the mother, because of the situation, will be forced to carry both to term, so the living twin is still wrapped up with the dead twin for the rest of the pregnancy. And because of medical complications, they can't abort the one fetus. That was the start of the movie. That's just creepy and fucked up. I can't really think of a movie that deals with that. That was a great starting off point.
This led me to do research that ultimately moved into "Well, we have to do an exorcism." But it's not a Catholic church exorcism; it's a Hebraic exorcism. There's a whole different kind of idiom in it. There's this thing called a "Hand in Miriam", and there's iconography that deals with mirrors. And there's this dog with a mask, which you might've seen in the presentation. Dogs with masks I find weird. I even love that thing in Philip Kaufman's INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS, where the dog has the human face on it. I just think that's weird and surreal.
Beaks: You mentioned incorporating Mengele's experiments with twins. How does that fit in?
Goyer: Again, it's one of these things where you just let your ideas flow. I'm researching twins, and there's this medical phenomenon called heterochromia where occasionally a person will have an iris that's mostly got brown pigment, but also a little of blue. Sometimes you see it in animals, and every once in a while in people. I thought, "That's an interesting image." So I was researching what causes that: sometimes it happens from a tumor, sometimes it happens from blunt force trauma, and sometimes it happens if you've got twins with fused placentas. This was just a coincidence. And what'll happen is some of the chromosomal material from the one twin will sort of get infused into the other. It's called "genetic mosaicism", and it was just one of those happy accidents. So I thought, "That's what'll kick it off. This girl's just doing her thing, and then one day, one of her eyes starts to turn blue." She starts seeing medical doctors, and first they think it might be cancer, and this and that. And then they start finding chromosomes that aren't hers, and that's when it becomes a mystery.
Then I was researching Mengele's experiments with twins, and he was fascinated with turning brown eyes into blue. All these disparate elements just sort of came together, and I was shocked that, when I sifted through them all, they made a kind of unified mythology. There's a lot of stuff from Kabbalah in it, too.
Beaks: How has Michael Bay been as a producer?
Goyer: He's been pretty hands off, which is nice. I think that I'm a lot more experienced than most of the directors they work with. I'm also the first writer/director that they've worked with. They also didn't develop it; I brought it to them. I said, "Hey, do you want to make this movie," and a week later we were in pre-production. But he's been very supportive. It's been cool.
The other thing I learned is... this gets really technical, but I did this film called THE INVISIBLE, which is very different from the kind of stuff I normally do. Nina Jacobson was the head of Disney at the time; she loved the movie, but she got fired while we were making the movie. And the new regime was like, "What the hell is this?" The thing with Michael is that he's got a guaranteed release, and guaranteed marketing, and whatever. It doesn't matter if the head of Universal gets fired; with Michael, I've got this 800 lb. gorilla who's going to protect it no matter what happens. That's awesome.
Beaks: So THE DARK KNIGHT is at, what, $400 million now?
Goyer: (Cracking a smile) Not yet. Maybe next weekend.
Beaks: Well, you guys were finally able to get to this point where you could make this huge, thematically ambitious comic book movie... the one that we've been building toward since BLADE sort of reinvigorated the genre.
Goyer: I think so. There were the SUPERMAN movies, and then I think BLADE was the next iteration.
Beaks: That or METEOR MAN.
Goyer: Yeah. Or BLANKMAN.
Beaks: But having helped nurture the comic book film, it must be kind of gratifying to be a part of the film that brings it to full maturation.
Goyer: It's been a crazy evolution. I remember having these meetings when we started BLADE in 1994, and it was just such a maligned [project]. Marvel didn't even give a shit about the character; I think they optioned the rights to New Line for $25,000. I think their fee on the first film was $125,000. They didn't even care. SPIDER-MAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA, X-MEN, HULK... that was it. What BLADE taught studios is that all these secondary, tertiary characters can become franchises in their own right. And then to, a decade later, be invited to do Batman - which to me is the grandaddy of them all - is amazing. We're all really proud of the movie, but we're also surprised that this movie is this successful because it's a really dark, unrelenting movie. The convention is - and I can't tell you how many times I've had studios tell me this - "Oh, it's a popcorn movie. It's got to be light and frothy." I really liked IRON MAN, don't get me wrong... but the assumption is that it's got to be SPIDER-MAN or IRON MAN. Well, THE DARK KNIGHT is brutal, and it's going to beat them all. By, like, hundreds of millions of dollars.
Beaks: The timing is perfect. Next year we're going to get the demystification with WATCHMEN.
Goyer: And then it's anybody's guess what happens next. I think WATCHMEN will be the end of the first chapter; it will be the ultimate postmodern superhero film.
Beaks: So where does Batman go from there?
Goyer: It's really up to Chris. He's taking a month-long vacation. On DARK KNIGHT, it was about coming up with a story that was better than BATMAN BEGINS. I think it's going to be sort of geometrically, proportionately harder a third time. We'll see. We talked a long time on THE DARK KNIGHT before he said, "I think we've got something." I don't know. We'll see.
In the meantime, you'll see THE UNBORN... at some point. There doesn't appear to be a release date yet. Hopefully, they'll finish up the f/x in the Comic Con teaser and release it online posthaste.
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
This led me to do research that ultimately moved into "Well, we have to do an exorcism." But it's not a Catholic church exorcism; it's a Hebraic exorcism. There's a whole different kind of idiom in it. There's this thing called a "Hand in Miriam", and there's iconography that deals with mirrors. And there's this dog with a mask, which you might've seen in the presentation. Dogs with masks I find weird. I even love that thing in Philip Kaufman's INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS, where the dog has the human face on it. I just think that's weird and surreal.
Then I was researching Mengele's experiments with twins, and he was fascinated with turning brown eyes into blue. All these disparate elements just sort of came together, and I was shocked that, when I sifted through them all, they made a kind of unified mythology. There's a lot of stuff from Kabbalah in it, too.
The other thing I learned is... this gets really technical, but I did this film called THE INVISIBLE, which is very different from the kind of stuff I normally do. Nina Jacobson was the head of Disney at the time; she loved the movie, but she got fired while we were making the movie. And the new regime was like, "What the hell is this?" The thing with Michael is that he's got a guaranteed release, and guaranteed marketing, and whatever. It doesn't matter if the head of Universal gets fired; with Michael, I've got this 800 lb. gorilla who's going to protect it no matter what happens. That's awesome.
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
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...now to read the article
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maybe 10% of mofos will get that..or maybe 5%.
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This one had Batman's best arch enemy and also Heath Ledger. What are they going to do next? The Penguin? The Riddler? No matter what they do or how cool it is, it will still pale by comparison. Maybe that's a good problem to have. Anyway, DK is way overrated but still a pretty good movie so I give them props for that.
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The less he had to do with the writing of any Batman was clearly for the better. Have we forgotten Blade 3? I heard The Invisible was awful. And Threshold was such a waste of Brent Spiner.
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...and you can tell he's excited about it...that's good...I like that.
I think a 3rd batman movie would be great if they could use the joker...and if you thought reinventing the Joker into this movie was incredible...it would take a freaking miracle to buy someone else doing a Heath Ledger doing the Joker impression...I agree with Rupee...it's hard to imagine the next batman flick topping this last one -
aren't you one of the guys who wanted a perma white joker and a cloth suited batman. stick to the cartoons cunt.
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"I heard The Invisible was awful." Get a mind of your own dumbfuck.
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that turns straight people into evil gays and it's up to Batman to stop him! B-3 will be produced by Focus on the Family.
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so we can finally see the dark knight returns
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...write and direct Blade 3?
Seriously, how can you fuck up Ryan Reynolds and Jessica Biel as vampire hunters? Even Parker Posey was wasted... -
... The Exorcist, which started it all. It's the only really good movie that's dealing with this subject that I can think of.
With that said, Goyer never struck me as a good filmmaker. Didn't like a single movie he was attached to until Batman Begins. And even with that, I feel that the best parts of BB and TDK are coming from the Nolans. -
And the fact that the Dark knight is fucking incredible and improves upon Begins in every facet just magnifies that. I mean talk about making an implicit theme VERY explicit. You could play a drinking game watching begins wherein you drink every time someone says the word fear and you would be dead of alcohol poisoning in half an hour. I fucking get it Goyer, he's using fear, enough already. Not only that but the origin was badly mishandled. Bruce Wayne spending what looked like a month in three different weak ass sparring sessions followed by a silly game to top it off does not a Batman make. He's supposed to trains for YEARS under different styles and different mental techniques sharpening his mind and body into what eventually becomes the greatest human mind and body on Earth. Goyers version was pathetically underdeveloped and unbelieveable. not to mention he completely writes off both the Scarecrow and Ras Al ghul, two incredible villains, into yet another underdeveloped (notice a pattern?) "plot of the week" serial.
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Goyer can probably type a lot better than I can, I'll certainly give him that.
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That was a good little film.
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If I hear from enough people that I respect that a movie is shitty then I'm not going to watch it. Are you seriously defending the shit he's put out? Wait... are you David Goyer?
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Mentions of MOTHMAN PROPHECIES, SESSION 9, and EXORCISM OF EMILY ROSE as the tone you're going for? I am fucking in.
Beaks, I hope that the footage that you saw is as good as you have made it sound because this movie just went from being not on my radar at all to the "must see" list.
And PS, I am listening to the Silent Hill soundtracks right now, so I am in a goood and creepy mood. -
Proper Modulation
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...but it just might work.
And THE INVISIBLE was perfectly bearable until it flew off the rails with that horribly ill-advised 'see you next Tuesday and the guy she beat half to death falling in love' angle. That bullshit MUST'VE been studio-imposed. -
The man gets a "story by" credit on one good movie for basically having a one night conversation about comic books with Christopher Nolan, and now I "owe" him my attention. No. Sorry Beaks. A hack who keeps good company is still a hack.
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was the creepy phone call guy in Mothman Prophecies. Not sure why I remember that, other than I was a bit creeped out by that part as well. That could have been a good movie. Ah well...
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Terrific "Ace the Bat-Dog" reference. Maybe the next one will have Bat-Mite, too.
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the question is whether it can beat Titanic...crossing fingers! wouldn't we all love to have Dark Knight in the record books for highest box office gross of all time rather than Titanic?
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I wish it could, but it doesnt have the Romance/Teenage Girl or Little Kid factor to insure repeat viewings
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just got a DUI!!! Bwa-HA HA HA HA
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its already made in 9 days what it took Iron Man and Indy months to reach...so if its at 314 million now, imagine a month from now. not saying it will but it definately has a shot.
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What a colossal, depressing joke.
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I see your point, but relative to Iron Man or Spider-Man, the themes in The Dark Knight are more serious, profound and, for lack of a better word, dark. I don't think he was comparing it to anything other than the typical superhero movies. (Even so, maybe "brutal" is a little too strong.)
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Not Batman without him!
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Jul 28, 2008 12:06:12 PM CDT
David Goyer is a hack, making invisible man over Magneto
by ganymede3010
Marvel should remove this franchise from him immediately. He keeps delaying the project because he wants to make bullshit horror movies and the invisible man. Magneto should be a priority, you have a golden egg in your hand and you're to moronic to see it. Judging by your Blade films you will do the character no justice, give to someone who'll actually prioritize this project.
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The thing is people talk about TDK not having a set up for a third movie like Begins did, but I think The end of the TDK more than sets up a third. Look! no way can Nolan leave Gotham in the state it is, at the end of TDK. Its a fucking mess. Batmans running from the police again and alot of people are dead. So were do we go from here I hear you ask? Well for starters give Nolan as much money as he wants to do a third (even though I know it isnt money that motivates him) Second, use The Joker again. I know for a fact Nolan and co will have scraped certain scenes he shot of The Joker for TDK. Use these if you can and if not manipulate them so you can, if not hire another actor to do the voice in the shadows of a cell in Arkham Asylum. Which villan would I use for the third? easy, The Riddler. I would have the Riddler almost send Batman insane in the movie, insane to the point that he has to visit the Joker in Arkham to ask for help to bring him down, a kind of Silence of the Lambs plot if you will.........Oh and by the way if they use this, I want fucking paying, in full I might add.
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Bouncy, it hasn't got a hope in hell. Titanic made over 600 in the U.S., and 1.25 FUCKING BILLION in the rest of the world. So about 1.8 billion all up. And that's for a 3 and a half hour movie on less screens. And how much did tickets cost 11 years ago compared to now? And how much did it make from Imax tickets costing nearly double? That's right.
I love how the vast majority of posts think the U.S. is the world. Even for your average flick it's an even split, ranging to a bit more for O.S. than U.S.
Superhero movies usually do worse O.S. than American domestic if you're looking for patterns, but I don't think that will happen here. I don't think any of us expected a hard-core (in terms of being fairly yes, brutal compared to your average hero film and definitely non-popcorn) superhero movie would do this. Hey, I loved DK much more than Titanic, but just being realistic.
But if this does 1.8 billion I'll let you watch while I eat my hat. -
but under 3&1/2. Point still stands.
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The only reason I think they got away with pg13 was because they COULDN'T give it a higher rating, rulewise. No swearing, pretty much bloodless, no necksnapping sound effects etc. Nolan was pretty canny.
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"Brutality" is defined in the Oxford American Dictionary as "savagely violent." Does that adjective necessarily denote disembowelment? No, although certainly the term "savage" has had its own elastic use over the centuries. The Dark Knight is more suggestive in its brutality, in that we do not, for instance, get to see a pencil entering an eyeball, the man rolling around on the floor in agony, etc.. But is that really necessary? PG13 was sufficient for the brutality in this film. The brutality in a period film based on legends of ancient European warfare, however, would probably require something closer to an R (unless you're Robert Zemeckis), because "savage" in that context would have a different meaning.
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There's one reason Titanic won't be bested, at least by TDK. -Titanic had no competition-. It came out at Christmas and with all the oscar buzz, it stayed vital through April. January through early May is clearing house season for Hollywood's worst movies, so there was nothing else in the theaters to see or to get excited about. Titanic also benefited from history because it was released just one year before the internet went mainstream. These days, information travels so quickly that a 3 week theater run seems like a lifetime. I mean, doesn't it feel like WALL*E came out months ago???
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My review: http://www.dvdinmypants.com/reviews/H-N/invisible.php
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Only not as funny.
All kidding aside, this sounds cool. -
I believe in him, just not behind the camera as much. Didn't see The Invisible but that will change soon enough, and I always believed in second/third chances for hopefuls... Goyer is better at the framing and pacing of stories as he obviously works better as a screenwriter. But to address the actress... it's about time because I've been waiting for an update on The Unborn, partially for my craving of more Odette Yustman-onscreen time. I mean she's like the sister Mandy Moore never had and that's always good on the eyes.
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Did Goyer read Grant Morrison's whole Cassandra Nova plotline in his X-Men run (brought back by Joss in Astonishing)? She's Xavier's evil twin, who fought Xavier in utero and lost, but comes back with a vengeance. Sounds a lot like this.
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