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EXCLUSIVE! Mr. Beaks Gets the Lowdown on BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD from Producer James Tucker!
Beaks here...
While Christopher Nolan continues to push Batman in a deathly serious direction, Warner Bros. Animation has, thankfully, decided to lighten up on the ol' Caped Crusader. So if you've been waiting for a Batman movie or television series you can watch with, y'know, kids (but still enjoy yourself), might I recommend BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD?
Based on the vintage team-up series that ran from 1955 to 1983 (it has been resurrected several times since, most recently in 2007 by Mark Waid), this iteration of the animated Batman promises to inject a little humor and a lot more fun into Gotham City. It's spearheaded by producer James Tucker (whose previous credits include BATMAN BEYOND, JUSTICE LEAGUE and LEGION OF SUPERHEROES), and it's set to debut on Cartoon Network in 2009. I'm hoping to make it to the Comic Con panel tomorrow (@ 10:00 AM in Room 6B), but, in the meantime, I'm happy to have had the opportunity to chat with Tucker and his new Batman (the voice of OFFICE SPACE's Diedrich Bader!).
I'm also excited to share with you the first glimpses of the characters (including Plastic Man and Green Arrow), as well as a trailer (which I'll have embedded shortly). For now, here's James Tucker talking tone, story and character on THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD!
Beaks: I talked to Diedrich on Friday, and he was great.
James Tucker: Yeah, he's a great guy.
Beaks: We're used to him doing comedy, and I know you're going for a lighter touch with this series, but why Diedrich for Batman?
Tucker: The Batman we're doing is kind of old school, and the thing about old school Batman was, even though we all know about his parents being murdered in an alley, he's kind of the flipside to the dark version of Batman who lets that pain dominate his life. The Batman we're doing has that pain, but instead of letting it pull him down, he's trying to make sure that never happens to anyone else. He's a very... decent guy. (Laughs) I guess that's the best word to describe him. He doesn't let his torment affect the way he treats other people. So I guess we needed a nice, decent, but strong person to play the part, someone whose decency would come through in their voice. We had auditions, and you get a lot of scary, whispery guys, and a lot of guys who hiss... they tap into that raging anger inside of them, but there's no humanity. There's no warmth. And Diedrich... was the only one we heard who clicked. We knew he was the one.
Beaks: I'm wondering if there's some sort of philosophy that's driving the evolution of the animated Batman for Warners, or is it more about gauging the zeitgeist and asking, "What kind of Batman do people want right now?"
Tucker: I think that aspect of the zeitgeist came after we decided on that direction. I can only speak for myself, but I've worked with Bruce Timm for twelve years, and I would never dare to follow his run or even the last Batman run with an uber-serious, dark, psychologically intense kind of Batman. It's been done. And it just worked out that this newest Batman film is the darkest interpretation of Batman I've ever seen in media. The only Batman I'm interested in is the one I grew up with, and the Batman I first learned about, that eventually led me into these darker incarnations, was... very straight and very much a hero. He was very cool, still, but not as psychologically tormented and unapproachable as Batman has become. That was the only Batman I would've been interested in working on because it hadn't been done in a long time, and it hadn't been done well in a long time either.
I just think, especially with this new DARK KNIGHT movie... it's a really hard PG-13. Kids under sixteen or seventeen shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it. There's a new Batman fan born every hour, and it just seems a shame that there's nothing out there for them to see. So I think this is what will serve that niche. That wasn't the initial thought going in; I just didn't want to follow in the shadow of the most recent Batmans because... one would argue, and some are arguing, that it's too soon to have the Batman show. I totally agree with them. The difference is that [BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD] is a team show: it's Batman *and*... Batman happens to be in it, but it's more about him bouncing off the other characters; it's not just another Batman show.
So those are the things that went through my mind when they approached me about doing it. And it turns out that it is in the zeitgeist. I think there is a need for a more approachable Batman. There's a need for an option. The kids right now don't have an option with this new movie. It's really too much for them.
Beaks: When I was growing up, you had the comic books and the uber-light TV version with Adam West. But when you talk about the Batman you grew up with, which artists and runs inspired you?
Tucker: BRAVE AND THE BOLD was the first Batman comic I ever read, so that's ironic. But my first exposure to Batman was, of course, Adam West and, then, the Filmation Batman. Those were very light, and I'm glad they were: they were the gateway drug into the harder stuff. (Laughs) It's the marijuana of superheroes. But then I picked up the comic books, and BRAVE AND THE BOLD looked like Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil, but when you read them they were really silly. That was my first comic book experience. Then I started reading the classic Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil stories, and I was like, "Wow, Batman's car is just like a Corvette! This isn't the Batman from the TV show, but it's still cool." Then you find out the darker themes, like the classic Denny O'Neil story "Appointment in Crime Alley". Things where you find out, "Wow, there's all this richness to the character!" It's kind of cool because, as you grow older... the themes that motivate Batman get deeper and deeper. But you can always go back to the more innocent Batman, and it still works. He's an amazing character, because there are so many entry points and things you can go back to. You can take him as dark as you want, or you can take him lighter, and he'll still work as long as he still has the villains, the gadgets, the intensity and the mission. Then there were the 100-page "Spectaculars", but they'd also reprint the other ones. And they were great! It was like, "I can see this new dark Batman, but this is where he came from!" You could see the evolution of the character.
So the thing I'm doing is taking all of those elements, basically anything that happened pre-DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is fair game. Even up until the 1980s, there were runs where he was still the old school Batman... not as dark. The Mike Barr/Alan Davis run on Batman was kind of light, but it was still cool. There are all kinds of things to draw on, it's just that after DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, everything got pitch black. I think that also coincided with the market for comics getting older and older. So I think THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD serves as a nice entry level for kids. And it's still good! People who know their comic book history will find lots to enjoy in this show. We are all fans here, and some of us are real old school. There are going to be tons of easter eggs.
Beaks: One of the great things is that you get to bring in so many other characters from the DC Universe.
We're trying to dig a lot deeper than just "The Big Three". There are the first-tiers: Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Then the second tier: Green Lantern, Flash. We're going even deeper. JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED covered a lot of that, but a lot of them weren't given spotlights, so this is a chance to go even deeper and actually give some attention to some of the lower rung characters who are still kind of cool.
Beaks: What about your stable of villains?
Tucker: We're kind of using the old template of cartoons, where you had a few villains that reoccurred. But it's not going to be like G.I. JOE, where all you had was Cobra. (Laughs) There will be different people showing up. We're trying to use as many characters as DC will allow.
Beaks: Do you think you might wedge Superman in there at some point?
Tucker: Well, currently his rights are tied up or something. I'm not privy to all the information, but he's unavailable to us. But if I remember correctly, Superman didn't appear at all in THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD until the very last issue. There is a comic book precedent for that. I don't miss him because Batman can hold his own with any hero in the DC Universe. But when you put Superman in there, suddenly there's a different type of story people want to see. Or it becomes more challenging. I hope someday we'll get to do that story, like the very last episode of the series. That would be appropriate. But right now, I'm not missing the chance to deal with him.
Beaks: Talking with Diedrich, he hinted at some of the voice talent, but there were a few names he wouldn't spill. Sounds like you've rounded up a very interesting voice cast.
Tucker: Well, Andrea Romano is the voice director, and she just has a pipeline to talent. Really unusual choices become available just because we have her on the project. There will definitely be some surprises. I can't go into who because I don't know how deep I can go. (Laughs)
Beaks: In terms of the humor, is it going to be quippy?
Tucker: Not quippy. At least, I don't think so. It's not trying to be campy like the BATMAN TV show really. No one makes fun of Batman. I think the humor comes more from the sense that Batman and all these heroes are basically acquaintances or friends. There's a sense of camaraderie amongst them. The humor comes from the relationships of the characters; it doesn't just come arbitrarily. When we say "humor", we just mean it's lighter. Batman doesn't always have a stick up his ass. (Laughs) He's someone they talk to. Each hero brings out a different aspect of him: some heroes he doesn't like, while some heroes he's really close to. This show is able to explore different aspects of Batman's personality through the prism of the other heroes. But I wouldn't say it's quippy. We have fun, and we don't ignore his history with the darkness and then the Adam West stuff. There are little nods to little points along Batman's history, and we have *decades* of history to draw upon.
Beaks: The only reason I brought up the idea of the humor was that Diedrich mentioned the openness of the table reads, where the actors could raise their hands and make line suggestions.
Tucker: Oh, yeah. That's the whole beauty of the system we have here [at Warner Bros.]: we have everyone in the same room together. It's really organic. I don't know how other shows do it, where people are just isolated. It's great to get that energy of the actors working with each other; it brings out the best in them. Someone like Tom Kenny, he should get a writing credit for some of the stuff he comes up with. He's great.
Beaks: Can you see what BRAVE AND THE BOLD might be building to? Do you know what the next phase is for the animated Batman?
Tucker: The intention is always to start out approachable. Then, once you develop characters and storylines, you can't help but get deeper - and that's when things get more intense. Once you care about the characters, and you've established a rapport with the audience, things tend to get more intense. I can already see that happening with our storyline. (Laughs) Which is fine. But I don't know where it's going to go. A lot of these stories are just one-offs. Maybe not "one-offs", but it's not like we're doing a big long arc, or anything. Every episode's a different character; Batman's the only constant. There are some characters who come back more than others, and we follow their stories each time they return; something's deepened about their character, or there's some more plot progression with their storyline. But it's not really arc-y.
The other thing is that things kind of develop without you planning them. It's like, "Wow, I didn't know this was a story we could tell!" But there's no thought about where it's going to ultimately go; we're just trying to get through the first season. I just hope the response is good. Unlike the Adam West show, where nothing ever really developed, I think this show has the room to get into more serious territory. Each episode has a different tone to it: some are darker, some are lighter. Because each episode deals with another character, and Batman is on their turf or their environment, it opens up a whole wide array of stories that we couldn't tell if we were just in Gotham all the time.
Beaks: Just as long as my five-year-old nephew has a Batman he can watch.
Tucker: I think this is the one, then. And I think you can watch it with him. The whole goal is broad-based. Make it broad enough for people, but have things in it that make it cool for each age.
Beaks: Geez, James, it sounds like you're playing in the sandbox we all dreamt of playing in when we were kids.
Tucker: Yeah, I must've sacrificed the right goat or something. (Laughs) It's weird. I missed out on BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES, but even that, as much as I loved it, it wasn't the Batman show that I envisioned. So, good or ill, this is it! (Laughs) It's been fun. It's been intense, but fun. And this is the year of Batman, evidently. It's a good time to be in the Batman world.
Based on the vintage team-up series that ran from 1955 to 1983 (it has been resurrected several times since, most recently in 2007 by Mark Waid), this iteration of the animated Batman promises to inject a little humor and a lot more fun into Gotham City. It's spearheaded by producer James Tucker (whose previous credits include BATMAN BEYOND, JUSTICE LEAGUE and LEGION OF SUPERHEROES), and it's set to debut on Cartoon Network in 2009. I'm hoping to make it to the Comic Con panel tomorrow (@ 10:00 AM in Room 6B), but, in the meantime, I'm happy to have had the opportunity to chat with Tucker and his new Batman (the voice of OFFICE SPACE's Diedrich Bader!).
I'm also excited to share with you the first glimpses of the characters (including Plastic Man and Green Arrow), as well as a trailer (which I'll have embedded shortly). For now, here's James Tucker talking tone, story and character on THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD!
Beaks: I talked to Diedrich on Friday, and he was great.
James Tucker: Yeah, he's a great guy.
Beaks: We're used to him doing comedy, and I know you're going for a lighter touch with this series, but why Diedrich for Batman?
Tucker: The Batman we're doing is kind of old school, and the thing about old school Batman was, even though we all know about his parents being murdered in an alley, he's kind of the flipside to the dark version of Batman who lets that pain dominate his life. The Batman we're doing has that pain, but instead of letting it pull him down, he's trying to make sure that never happens to anyone else. He's a very... decent guy. (Laughs) I guess that's the best word to describe him. He doesn't let his torment affect the way he treats other people. So I guess we needed a nice, decent, but strong person to play the part, someone whose decency would come through in their voice. We had auditions, and you get a lot of scary, whispery guys, and a lot of guys who hiss... they tap into that raging anger inside of them, but there's no humanity. There's no warmth. And Diedrich... was the only one we heard who clicked. We knew he was the one.
Beaks: I'm wondering if there's some sort of philosophy that's driving the evolution of the animated Batman for Warners, or is it more about gauging the zeitgeist and asking, "What kind of Batman do people want right now?"
Tucker: I think that aspect of the zeitgeist came after we decided on that direction. I can only speak for myself, but I've worked with Bruce Timm for twelve years, and I would never dare to follow his run or even the last Batman run with an uber-serious, dark, psychologically intense kind of Batman. It's been done. And it just worked out that this newest Batman film is the darkest interpretation of Batman I've ever seen in media. The only Batman I'm interested in is the one I grew up with, and the Batman I first learned about, that eventually led me into these darker incarnations, was... very straight and very much a hero. He was very cool, still, but not as psychologically tormented and unapproachable as Batman has become. That was the only Batman I would've been interested in working on because it hadn't been done in a long time, and it hadn't been done well in a long time either.
I just think, especially with this new DARK KNIGHT movie... it's a really hard PG-13. Kids under sixteen or seventeen shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it. There's a new Batman fan born every hour, and it just seems a shame that there's nothing out there for them to see. So I think this is what will serve that niche. That wasn't the initial thought going in; I just didn't want to follow in the shadow of the most recent Batmans because... one would argue, and some are arguing, that it's too soon to have the Batman show. I totally agree with them. The difference is that [BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD] is a team show: it's Batman *and*... Batman happens to be in it, but it's more about him bouncing off the other characters; it's not just another Batman show.
So those are the things that went through my mind when they approached me about doing it. And it turns out that it is in the zeitgeist. I think there is a need for a more approachable Batman. There's a need for an option. The kids right now don't have an option with this new movie. It's really too much for them.
Beaks: When I was growing up, you had the comic books and the uber-light TV version with Adam West. But when you talk about the Batman you grew up with, which artists and runs inspired you?
Tucker: BRAVE AND THE BOLD was the first Batman comic I ever read, so that's ironic. But my first exposure to Batman was, of course, Adam West and, then, the Filmation Batman. Those were very light, and I'm glad they were: they were the gateway drug into the harder stuff. (Laughs) It's the marijuana of superheroes. But then I picked up the comic books, and BRAVE AND THE BOLD looked like Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil, but when you read them they were really silly. That was my first comic book experience. Then I started reading the classic Neal Adams and Denny O'Neil stories, and I was like, "Wow, Batman's car is just like a Corvette! This isn't the Batman from the TV show, but it's still cool." Then you find out the darker themes, like the classic Denny O'Neil story "Appointment in Crime Alley". Things where you find out, "Wow, there's all this richness to the character!" It's kind of cool because, as you grow older... the themes that motivate Batman get deeper and deeper. But you can always go back to the more innocent Batman, and it still works. He's an amazing character, because there are so many entry points and things you can go back to. You can take him as dark as you want, or you can take him lighter, and he'll still work as long as he still has the villains, the gadgets, the intensity and the mission. Then there were the 100-page "Spectaculars", but they'd also reprint the other ones. And they were great! It was like, "I can see this new dark Batman, but this is where he came from!" You could see the evolution of the character.
So the thing I'm doing is taking all of those elements, basically anything that happened pre-DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is fair game. Even up until the 1980s, there were runs where he was still the old school Batman... not as dark. The Mike Barr/Alan Davis run on Batman was kind of light, but it was still cool. There are all kinds of things to draw on, it's just that after DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, everything got pitch black. I think that also coincided with the market for comics getting older and older. So I think THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD serves as a nice entry level for kids. And it's still good! People who know their comic book history will find lots to enjoy in this show. We are all fans here, and some of us are real old school. There are going to be tons of easter eggs.
Beaks: One of the great things is that you get to bring in so many other characters from the DC Universe.
We're trying to dig a lot deeper than just "The Big Three". There are the first-tiers: Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Then the second tier: Green Lantern, Flash. We're going even deeper. JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED covered a lot of that, but a lot of them weren't given spotlights, so this is a chance to go even deeper and actually give some attention to some of the lower rung characters who are still kind of cool.
Beaks: What about your stable of villains?
Tucker: We're kind of using the old template of cartoons, where you had a few villains that reoccurred. But it's not going to be like G.I. JOE, where all you had was Cobra. (Laughs) There will be different people showing up. We're trying to use as many characters as DC will allow.
Beaks: Do you think you might wedge Superman in there at some point?
Tucker: Well, currently his rights are tied up or something. I'm not privy to all the information, but he's unavailable to us. But if I remember correctly, Superman didn't appear at all in THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD until the very last issue. There is a comic book precedent for that. I don't miss him because Batman can hold his own with any hero in the DC Universe. But when you put Superman in there, suddenly there's a different type of story people want to see. Or it becomes more challenging. I hope someday we'll get to do that story, like the very last episode of the series. That would be appropriate. But right now, I'm not missing the chance to deal with him.
Beaks: Talking with Diedrich, he hinted at some of the voice talent, but there were a few names he wouldn't spill. Sounds like you've rounded up a very interesting voice cast.
Tucker: Well, Andrea Romano is the voice director, and she just has a pipeline to talent. Really unusual choices become available just because we have her on the project. There will definitely be some surprises. I can't go into who because I don't know how deep I can go. (Laughs)
Beaks: In terms of the humor, is it going to be quippy?
Tucker: Not quippy. At least, I don't think so. It's not trying to be campy like the BATMAN TV show really. No one makes fun of Batman. I think the humor comes more from the sense that Batman and all these heroes are basically acquaintances or friends. There's a sense of camaraderie amongst them. The humor comes from the relationships of the characters; it doesn't just come arbitrarily. When we say "humor", we just mean it's lighter. Batman doesn't always have a stick up his ass. (Laughs) He's someone they talk to. Each hero brings out a different aspect of him: some heroes he doesn't like, while some heroes he's really close to. This show is able to explore different aspects of Batman's personality through the prism of the other heroes. But I wouldn't say it's quippy. We have fun, and we don't ignore his history with the darkness and then the Adam West stuff. There are little nods to little points along Batman's history, and we have *decades* of history to draw upon.
Beaks: The only reason I brought up the idea of the humor was that Diedrich mentioned the openness of the table reads, where the actors could raise their hands and make line suggestions.
Tucker: Oh, yeah. That's the whole beauty of the system we have here [at Warner Bros.]: we have everyone in the same room together. It's really organic. I don't know how other shows do it, where people are just isolated. It's great to get that energy of the actors working with each other; it brings out the best in them. Someone like Tom Kenny, he should get a writing credit for some of the stuff he comes up with. He's great.
Beaks: Can you see what BRAVE AND THE BOLD might be building to? Do you know what the next phase is for the animated Batman?
Tucker: The intention is always to start out approachable. Then, once you develop characters and storylines, you can't help but get deeper - and that's when things get more intense. Once you care about the characters, and you've established a rapport with the audience, things tend to get more intense. I can already see that happening with our storyline. (Laughs) Which is fine. But I don't know where it's going to go. A lot of these stories are just one-offs. Maybe not "one-offs", but it's not like we're doing a big long arc, or anything. Every episode's a different character; Batman's the only constant. There are some characters who come back more than others, and we follow their stories each time they return; something's deepened about their character, or there's some more plot progression with their storyline. But it's not really arc-y.
The other thing is that things kind of develop without you planning them. It's like, "Wow, I didn't know this was a story we could tell!" But there's no thought about where it's going to ultimately go; we're just trying to get through the first season. I just hope the response is good. Unlike the Adam West show, where nothing ever really developed, I think this show has the room to get into more serious territory. Each episode has a different tone to it: some are darker, some are lighter. Because each episode deals with another character, and Batman is on their turf or their environment, it opens up a whole wide array of stories that we couldn't tell if we were just in Gotham all the time.
Beaks: Just as long as my five-year-old nephew has a Batman he can watch.
Tucker: I think this is the one, then. And I think you can watch it with him. The whole goal is broad-based. Make it broad enough for people, but have things in it that make it cool for each age.
Beaks: Geez, James, it sounds like you're playing in the sandbox we all dreamt of playing in when we were kids.
Tucker: Yeah, I must've sacrificed the right goat or something. (Laughs) It's weird. I missed out on BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES, but even that, as much as I loved it, it wasn't the Batman show that I envisioned. So, good or ill, this is it! (Laughs) It's been fun. It's been intense, but fun. And this is the year of Batman, evidently. It's a good time to be in the Batman world.
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I found one at Big Shiny Robot....
It's got pictures and more spilling of voice talent:
http://www.bigshinyrobot.com/reviews/archives/544 -
thought i had it
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Everybody keeps talking about the movie like it'll turn kids' brains to mush. What, they can't handle questions about morality, questions about what it takes to be a hero- the sacrifices, the pain, the heartache it requires to do the right thing. God forbid a little kid has to endure finding that out until he's shaving.
There is nothing, I repeat, nothing more violent or scary in that movie that hasn't been seen on shitty cartoony shows like Smallville. The only reason adults are surprised and crying foul is that the movie is a tragedy and ends on a less than upbeat note. Boo freakin hoo. I swear, a kid can probably handle the moral ambiguity of the film better than some of the adults reviewing the movie. Grow the hell up, get a pair of balls. -
I'm both kind of excited and disturbed by the fact that they got Bader as Batman. I love his work in Office Space, Drew Carey Show and Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back but I really can't see him as Batman. Scene: Batman and Green Arrow are having tea. Batman - "Oh what a lovely tea party"
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Jul 25, 2008 5:05:30 AM CDT
"Warner Bros. Animation has, thankfully, decided to lighten up o
by umaga
Yes, just WHAT WE NEED. Have you ever heard of Batman: The Animated Series. I took my six year old nephew to The Dark Knight and he loved it until he fell asleep.
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Yes, even after the 1997 revamped character designs. The show had such a class to it that is still unparalleled in any other animated kids series. Will we ever get any more direct to DVD/Blu-ray movies in that continuity, or is Warner shunning it off still?
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There's a lot of research done by professionals that indicates that it's bad to expose children to imagery that involves cruelty and violence. I'm not saying that type of imagery is bad per se, but it is bad for kids.
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I know a fun trick... want to watch me make this pencil disappear?
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The Batman was godawful. The lighter touch is nice because it avoids any comparisons to the Dini/Timm version, which was part of the problem with The Batman. It felt watered down.
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It's the breast exam! Check out this chick!
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You know...for kids!
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This could work as a kid-friendly alternative to our Dark Knight but not something we'll go out of our way to watch like the JLA series...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPRscxQZs8E
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Could be fun. Has to be better than "The Batman"...which was simply unwatchable.
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Go get it on DVD. All four seasons are on my Top Shelf, right beside "The Wire" and "Looney Tunes Golden Collection" I-V, LOTR & Star Trek I,II, III, IV, VI and First Contact. Pretty good company, n'est ce pas?
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If I have to listen to one more 'adult' complain about people suggesting that kids not go see this, I'm going to puke. If you want to see it, great. It's the best movie I've seen this summer. Take your friends, if you have them. But don't force little 8-year old Valar2 to go see it JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT TO. My 7 year old wanted to go, but won't. You know why? Because I'm his parent, that's why. And I make the decisions on what he is exposed to, to the best of my ability. I'm his PARENT; I don't always have to be his friend. You're probably the type of person who lets their eight year old see 'Saw' and thinks it's OK just to tell him 'it's all fake', like that's all that matters. We're not telling you to not see it, we're just sick of the lazy, selfish parents who can't get a sitter but want to see a movie so they'll take the kids instead of making a sacrifice (and I use that term very loosely) and, um, I don't know...NOT SEEING THE FRICKIN MOVIE! It's the people who are afraid to say no to their kids that need to grow a pair, not the other way around.
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... the design of this series looks like ass. I'm just sayin'... and you KNOW I'm right!
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This douche really is living in the 50's.
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Why the fuck do we need another?
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..."Rex Kwon Do" fame.
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just wait until you get a load of this shit. Even the art direction makes me want to puke.
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Eh I have no problem with that. Not everything should be for adults. I'm just worried about the quality of it all the animation does look very um "seventies" to me. We'll see.
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The writing and art on the Dini & Bruce Timm series were much better.
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Most of the film the violence is implied. Even the pencil trick is implied- the pencil is not actually shown to have gone in the guy's nostril, Joker cutting the black pimp is not shown, cops are shot offscreen, explosions occur where later we find out key figures are inside the event. If every time a cop is shot offscreen, or if a psychopath talks about how he got his facial scars it is too much for you, it'd be best if you let the grownups watch the movies. Stick to BTAS.
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Anyone remember the 80's and parts of the 90's when children's entertainment had some actual value and didn't completely patronize it's audience? Shows like that are becoming harder and harder to find. Shit like this proves it.
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"The Batman" was about as kid friendly as Batman should get and that show had basically turned into a Brave and the Bold/Justice League show for kids anyway before they pulled the plug to make way for this crap.
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It doesn't matter if you're 5 or 50, that was a great show that ANYONE can enjoy. The very definition of an excellent, classic series.
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It should've went on for at least a few more seasons anyway, so many more characters to introduce and storylines to explore. It was a GOOD show that ANYBODY can watch and enjoy regardless of their age.
I'm done. -
Wow this guy is out of it. I was watching Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Steet movies when I was 9. When I was a little kid my 2 favorite cartoons were Voltron and Robotech, because they had the balls to actually kill off main characters. As a kid I really appreciated that the cartoon was actually willing to lay down some heavy shit on me. I'm sure kids will love the Dark Knight for the same reason. As much as you as a parent *think* they love happy, bubbly shit, that's only because that's all we feed them.
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It's not just violence-I don't know about you, but I thought it was definitely possible if not probable that Dent was going to kill someone in Gordon's family at the end. Why would I want to try to explain to my seven year old why 'the two-faced man was going to kill the nice man's little boy'? Also, I don't buy the "I did it when I was 'X', so I'll go out of my way to expose my child to it" argument. I will be the first to show my kid 'Raiders' and 'Temple of Doom' when the time is right, because I loved them and I'm sure he will too when he's old enough. The idea of having to watch a particular movie or tv show in order to 'grow some balls', 'be a man' or not have children become 'vapid, utter pussies' is totally ridiculous. If you're counting on tv and movies for those things, then there are much bigger problems at hand.
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... I'm just saying. This is how it starts. I hope the Brave and the Bold isn't crap.
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this shit won't even be aluminum.
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My kid is 6 and loved Dark Knight. Yeah, I thought it would be a little intense, but he loves the Indiana Jones movies and the Lord of the Rings movies and my wife and I saw it made the decision he could see it. (Actually the thing that made us buckle was that we took him to see Hellboy II and the tooth fairies didn't even make him flinch.)
It depends on the kid. I respect the decision not to take your kid to it, but there are kids who are okay with it. -
Seriously, I've never heard an explanation from anyone official...why? Why did it have to go away? It was note perfect, Saturday evening crack. I'd put "Epilogue" up there as one of the finest scripted half-hours of all time. The voice work was wonderful. The stories were intelligent enough for adults yet safe enough for kids. There has never been a better depiction of super heroes on any screen of any size, full stop. And yes, I'm saying that pound for pound, inch for inch, it was a better super hero vehicle than "The Dark Knight" (which is high praise, because the movie is awesome).
Seriously, why did it get cancelled? And is there any hope in hell of it ever coming back? -
They'll watch my DVDs of Batman The Animated Series.
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Also...
I don't know how many of you read the interview with the director I linked to at the top, but seriously, this isn't just a kids show and he said they're getting away with way more violence than they could do on JLU....
So read that other interview with the director before you keep complaining. -
I just watched the trailer and it looks pretty "for kids..."
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And by You People,I mean the ones who wont let their children go see Dark Knight. Can you imagine how much that sucks..especially if your kid is a Batman fan? Especially if all their friends have seen it? When I was a kid my parents were actually,you know,PARENTS, At a very early age they sat me down and taught me the difference between fantasy and reality. As a result,I got to watch James Bond movies and Jaws and Alien and Predator and all the other great movies of my childhood. You do your precious croth fruit no favors my sheltering them. Yours are the children that will wind up crying in the shower wearing their underwear after high school gym class...the future is going to be full of nothing but 40 year old virgins sitting around their parents basements in their P.J.'s singing I Wish I was an Oscar Meyer Weiner and thinking happy/happy joy/joy thoughts!
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This is the oldest fucking board on the internet,and they wont make with a fucking edit feature so we can fix our typos? Jesus!
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Of the $,of course. Cartoon Network had to pay the WB a license fee to air the show. The WB also had all the merchandise rights,so the only profit Cartoon Network could make off the show was with advertising-which was not enough to even cover the licensing fees from the WB,so they let it go to focus on properties developed In House. So why didnt the WB pick up JLU for their saturday morning KidsWB animation block? I have no clue...go ask Bruce Timm or something.
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Instead of Gotham City, its Gotham Kindergarten, and Batman is a toddler, and so are all the villains! That would be so cute! So, they could take the level of awesome that the Batman has reached in film, and totally destroy that! What a great fucking idea! Yay! Wheee!
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They were all like, "daddy, please, I'm scared," and I was all like, "shhhhUT THE FUCK UP!!! I'M THE FATHER HERE AND I MAKE THE RULES!!!" Then I cut one of them just a little bit. After that they shut the fuck up and enjoyed the movie. Fuckin' kids. They're SO FUCKING GAY!!!
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Jul 25, 2008 12:16:37 PM CDT
akiraclass- well said, I still think there isn't that much viole
by valar1
I get your point about the scary scenarios in DK-but my point is they don't actually show anything that graphic- all the violence is up to the imagination of the viewer. And kids, with a decreased sphere of experience and thus imagination, can't fill in the blanks when Joker slashes a guy's face offscreen, adults can and will and then they come out of the theater pissing and moaning about how the movie is excessively violent- where the hell were these people when Obi Wan cut Darth Maul in half? where were they when Spidey let the glider impale Norman Osborne? It's great that all of you are looking out for your kids but since when did offscreen or impending violence [like the scene with Twoface and Gordon's son] become more traumatic to a kid than actual graphic filmed violence- like Darth Maul getting cut or Qui-Gon getting impaled. I think all of you are approaching the movie from a totally subjective visceral place because you were shocked that the movie sucked in your imagination and made you uncomfortable- if you would take a step back and look objectively you'd see the movie isn't that violent- it only seems so to adults who can fill in the blanks of the implications with their well developed imaginations. I doubt a kid could.
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Nuff said!
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Wait a minute--did we just rationally discuss opposing ideas and see that each person's opinion could be valid? Apologies if I offended in my first post.
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You're only half full of shit. You're right about a parent not needing to be their kids friend, and good for you for telling him he can't go instead of whining about how dark Dark Knight is. What you do miss is the parents who ARE capable of telling their children the difference between reality and fantasy. As a child, I was allowed to watch whatever I wanted. If I had a question about anything, I asked my parents. If I thought I could do those things, I got smacked in the head and brought back to reality. I'm not crazy, I'm not a killer, I don't suffer from mental disease or defect. So before you condemn a parent for taking their kid to see The Dark Knight, why don't you pull YOUR head out of your ass and realize that there's more than one way to raise a kid.
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batman is gonna rock, but they mentioned ZEITEIST. anyone else see that freaky movie? its a MUST see. a big ole' dose of the RED PILL. be warned, do you want the blue pill or RED PILL. take the red pill, and plunge into the world of the ZEITGEIST film
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Oh sweet christ. Here we go again. Every time the Warner Brothers make this character (who watched his parent get shot in the face, by the way.) light and frothy, they are creating a generation of parents who think that if THIS version of Batman is okay, then every incarnation of Batman must be okay for their three year old to watch. And then we get parents upset that the Dark Knight is "too dark" for little Billy. When this douche says "old school" about Batman, he means Adam west and that cheesy 50's garbage, not the stuff from when the Batman comic started out and he had a gun and killed people.
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First off, there's a difference between 6-7 year-olds and 10-11 year olds-would you agree? I'm only talking about LITTLE kids here. Second, to use my previous example, you're saying that if a child wants to go see SAW I should run down to Best Buy, grab him a copy and get the popcorn-a-poppin', then sit back and answer all his questions with 'it's OK, it's not real!' and, what-I'm father of the year? I'm sure my kid will think that when he's up all night with nightmares... Is that what you're saying? I never said anybody would become a serial killer, and I'm not for censorship. Did your parents let you watch porn? If not, why not? Because it was, dare I say, inappropriate? If they did, well then...
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Sorry to jump in on this conersation, a kid may ask to see the Dark Knight, he may even ask to see Saw. No kid is ever, EVER, going to ask their parents to watch porn, so that straw man argument has to go out the window. That being said, everyone has to find a parenting style that is right for the kid. Your job as a parent is to make sure your kid doesn't spend a cent on therapy bvecause of you when he's an adult. Then again, I don't have kids and until I do I have know idea what I'm really talking about when it comes to the subject of parenting.
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I was addressing Alex's statement that he got to watch 'whatever he wanted'-I tell my kids all the time what's the difference between reality and fantasy in what they're watching, but I don't feel the need to show them things I think are inappropriate in order to do so.
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Everyone has a different idea of inappropriate. I had two friend with children about the same age. One thought that violence was okay to show her daughter, but not nudity. The other didn't have a problem with having her son watch nudity, but didn't want to expose him to violence. Obviously, there were limits to both. There's no way that friend #1 was going to show her daughter Faces Of Death and there's no way that friend #2 was going to let her kid watch Deep Throat. When it comes to kids and entertainment, it's all about the specific kid, and knowing the material. Most of the very small children were taken to the Dark Knight because of the parents' ignorance of the material, and not because their parents watched the movie themselves (or read reviews) and made an informed judgement based on how well they know their kids. Their is a difference between having a cool parent who watches "r" rated movies with you sometimes, and one that lets you watch whatever they want because they couldn't care less.
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Because Cartoon Network is a bunch of cheap-o's What they do is green light a show for 3 years. and sydicate till the ratings drop. They treated JLU as a extension to JL, and cut it cause it was cost effective.
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Anyone who comes to this site knows it gets hyperbolic and profane. Heck, that's why I come here and when I get ticked off that's how my first post is as well. The difference between the men and the boys is the men calm down and make their points rationally- you were the first to do that and I followed your example. Kudos. Now I must go off to rent porn and slasher flicks for my 7 yr old nephew...
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It introduced three things that were pretty cool: 1) A teen-age Batgirl. 2) A teen-age Poison Ivy. And 3) establishing that the Cobblepots (The Penguin's family surname) had a long-time rivalry with the Waynes. Also, I think the show's take on Clayface (or the Clayfaces) was pretty good. In fact, I really think that the Bat-Nolan films should adapt elements of the three things I cited above, because they would most fit in that series' realistic take on the Bat mythos.
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Both the look and the music. Wonder what the show will be like?
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Anyone there?
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