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Harry spends a dark night with the DARK KNIGHT
Hyperbole is my forte. I’m known for it. I love films the way a dog loves humping your leg at Thanksgiving Dinner – but I get terrified when I see critics – high and low – throwing out comparisons to GODFATHER 2 for a BATMAN movie. Or that want to say that the film isn’t “merely the best superhero film ever made,” but they also want to put it as the best crime film ever made.
Well, through circumstances beyond my control – I’m late weighing in on this here DARK KNIGHT picture show dealio. The film is, in fact, superb in every way. A vast improvement on BATMAN BEGINS – amazing what happens when you no longer have to deal with an origin story and satisfying only the merchandizing interests of the parent corporation. Instead, Nolan has decided to treat Batman as only the best Comic Writers have dared to. Adult, scary and frightening.
DARK KNIGHT is a great dark Batman movie.
Is it everything every BATMAN fan would ever want from BATMAN, THE JOKER or TWO-FACE?
Well, depends on the fan. If you like your Batman on the cutting edge of technology, that uses Wayne Industries and his persona as Bruce Wayne to do things that even Batman couldn’t do, that has a strict code that he adheres to, but is ruthlessly unethical in his pursuit of evil… well this is your Batman. He kicks ass, hurts but never kills. This Batman is an empowered mutherfucker. He will beat confessions and information out of thugs, he would break legs for information and he will kidnap whomever he sees fit… if it serves the greater good.
Now if that’s what you want – that’s what you’re going to get. But if you want a more juvenile tale, with a glimmer of light and a prayer of a happy ending… keep on trucking, cuz that ship doesn’t dock here.
That said – HOLY FUCK – what a great movie.
This is a film that’s better than any given performance in it. It is a fantastic ensemble work. All at once BATMAN is everything that you wish was out there fucking up evil on a nightly basis. But what I love about this film is this… Batman isn’t some rogue vigilante – he’s the ultimate black op operative – working in collusion with law enforcement and government to do what they can’t. He has limitless wealth – seemingly. Science and technology is at his beck and call and he piggybacks on a government’s research and development. He’s the blunt force trauma of a flaccid broken city eaten away by bad cops and several active mafias that know the established system and play it like a casino does their poker tables. Making it impossible to ever win in the long run.
Batman is an equalizer. He’s Buford Pusser with a lot more than a 2x4. He’s walking tall and kicking ass. At the same time, Bruce Wayne is using his wealth and connections – he’s getting into business with unethical sonsabitches so that his company can examine them with a fine toothed comb – to see how they work, how they shuffle the money – how they hide the corruption. To locate and know the secrets that only the corporate giants know. He is listening to everything, violating every ethical boundary to simply beat the bad guys and take his city back. And he is aware that forces outside the boundaries of his Gotham City effect and conspire to feed upon the populace of his city and he’ll target them as well.
However, just as the final conversation between Gordon and Batman in BATMAN BEGINS worried about – Escalation is happening.
The particular genius of DARK KNIGHT is it’s treatment of the JOKER – they don’t explain him. He didn’t kill Bruce’s parents. He wasn’t dropped into a vat of chemicals by Batman. In fact, he has no direct ties to the caped crusader. The Joker is a mystery. Why does he exist? What does he serve?
He’s literally the flipside of Batman. While Batman believes in the dream of civilization and the town his family helped found, the Joker believes in the inequities of civilization. He sees hypocrites everywhere. The world is full of sane citizens a push from insanity. What made him this way? I doubt seriously that we’ll ever see that story written adequately to serve the character created on screen.
As has been said before – Heath Ledger’s JOKER is a great screen villain. One to put on the shelf of cinematic history along side: Richard Widmark’s TOMMY UDO, Malcolm McDowell’s ALEX, James Cagney’s CODY JARRETT, Anthony Hopkins’ HANNIBAL LECTER, Javier Bardem’s ANTON CHIGURH and Robert Mitchum’s MAX CADY. It is officially that quality. I won’t call him the best, just as I can’t personally rank those that I listed. These are all great unhinged villains. Amoral sonsabitches to the last. The best thing that Heath’s performance has done is to forever erase the painful memory of Jack Nicholson’s Joker. I remember back in 1989, the world went bonkers over Jack’s performance. And I was pissed. As written in Sam Hamm’s script, the character was so much better than what Nicholson transformed it into through the aid of Warren Skaaren. Here, Heath is invisible in the role, his eyes containing madness, genius, sympathy, sadism and childlike glee. The stories he tells are brilliant little mind fucks. His monologues and mannerisms seem so spontaneous, so created with a gleeful inspiration from the great deceiver himself. It is a role and a performance of a lifetime. Will he win Best Supporting Actor next year? Well – of the above brilliant performances – Only Sir Anthony & Bardem walked away with a Bald Golden Dude. It is a crime that any of those other performances were not awarded, but they each deserved it. At this point, Heath’s work as the Joker is deserving of consideration, but let’s see what else the year has in store for us, eh?
Oddly though – The Joker is not the most frightening character in the film. That goes to Harvey Dent / Two-Face. When Two-Face goes on his journey in this film, he isn’t simply a cartoon. He’s a nightmare. He’s the family pet ripping the throat out on your daughter. He’s something you loved, twisted, random and dangerous. When George Raft famously flipped the coin, there was death in his eyes. When Anton Chigurh flipped, it felt like an excuse for the character. Here – when Dent flips that coin, he literally has no idea what he’s going to do, until it lands clean or scarred – and even then – he could find a reason to flip again. His psyche was scarred far worse than his face, and until you see that nightmarish Dorian Gray/Jonah Hex visage… you’ve no idea how great this character is. Now zebra striped neon suits… No hot pink makeup. Here… it’s the shit of nightmares.
That said – Everyone in the film is rock solid. My personal favorite character of this series is Gary Oldman’s James Gordon. It’s just a supremely crafted character. A good cop in a corrupt town, trying to make it safer for us all. He’s amazing in what little he’s given in the film. And I just can not get over how I can’t see Gary Oldman in him, I only see Gordon and that makes me so fucking happy. So happy to see Gordon no longer played as a bumbling buffoon. Instead he’s somebody that puts in the long hours, doesn’t care about credit and advancement, but rather – he’s there to get the job done because everyone else could give a rat’s ass. I was genuinely shocked by the choices with this character this time out. Each beat felt true to the character – and was brought to life with the greatness of Gary Oldman.
Christian Bale, Michael Caine & Morgan Freeman are simply the best. The invention of Lucius Fox was never a character I truly loved in comic form when Len Wein created him – but as Morgan Freeman has played the character – I’ve fallen in love with him. He is absolutely the best version of an all-purpose Q character in film history. It’s played with respect and knowledge. It’s nice to see that it takes a team to make Batman as super as he is here. That there’s people behind the Bat trying to make him better than he would be on his own. Folks driving to help the legend take hold, all hoping that this crazy son of a bitch can hold it together long enough to make a difference. But they all see this as something that can’t last long. We’d only see something like the Batman for a brief amount of time. They’re there to try and give him the tools, knowledge and wisdom to make it the best use of that gifted time.
Heroes don’t last long. Not in the real world. They seem to always disappoint in the end – and where Batman goes in this film. Where he’s left at the end, is that he’s set up to be the Batman for the rest of his life. He’s locked in. He isn’t looking for excuses to put the cape up. There’s nothing left for him but the cowl and the crusade.
The franchise has taken its time to get Batman to where he is right now, they’ve built him with the utmost care and intelligence. Where he goes from here as a character is going to be the trick. It is a shame that we’ll never see Heath as the Joker again, but what I hope is that they don’t just let the character go. Instead – like Telly Savalas’ one run at Blofeld, it set the rules for the character. If anything, Heath laid down one awesome dare to any who would dare follow. I just hope someone has the sack to pick up the grease paint and knives and give it a run. Personally – I’d nominate Javier Bardem.
Enjoy this weekend and this film. This one was done note perfect.
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But slightly better than Batman Returns. Seriously Nolan, what the fuck was up with that twenty minute Tiny "Zeus" Lister ferry scene? Other than that and the fact that Two Face was Venomed out of the movie, it was perfect.
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Not ONCE. Not ONCE? Her version of Rachel was amazing, full of life, and SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER I promise you I was crying in the IMAX theater. How could you not even mention her?
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Uh, Harry, Javier Bardem DID wIn the Oscar for Anton. And if there is any justice, Ledger will win one as well.
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It's the Friday the 13th Part IV: The Final Chapter. The characters and plot are slightly more believable than the others in the series, and the villain fucks shit up good, but it's flawed. Not the best of the franchise, but damn good times otherwise.
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As much as joker is a part, so is robin...if done right, I want to see nolans take
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a fucking great movie.
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Jul 18, 2008 9:02:31 PM CDT
The second coming of Christ just like everyone says
by leafy mcplantsalot
no one will say otherwise
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B/c no one is going to hell over this movie... except maybe a couple people.
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and I can't stop thinking about it. Gonna see it again on Sunday and try to focus. I think I was just too damn excited about what was coming next to fully enjoy it. Oh, and hopefully I won't have a 12 yr old zit faced emo fuckstick texting half the time sitting next to me. Fucking Harry Potter.
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You don't have to take them all away....
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First from newport in wales united kingdom where dr who is filmed and torchwood
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it's 20 years from now and Bale is doing the TDK Returns story...that would be cool.And by then the audience could accept a new but older Joker.
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one of the main reasons, in my opinion, why the TDK is so incredibly brilliant: Choice. The essence of all great drama is "conflict," and in TDK, it manifests itself in the form of inner conflict -- choices the characters are forced to make. Whether it's Bogart telling Bergman to "get on that plane," Michaele Corleone choosing to kill Friedo, or Romeo choosing to drink the poison at the sight of his comatose Juliet, choice is at the very heart of the storytelling. Every main character in TDK has to make some sort of choice in which the consequences can and do lead to tradgedy. It doesn't take the Hollywood "out" either, where a character makes an ethically or morally questionable decision, but is somehow redeemed by the end of the film, simply because he or she is a "good" character. Iron Man was great for many reasons, but let's face it, the choice Tony Stark makes, (to fight for justice) comes early and is clearly the only choice he could make,or there wouldn't be a film. Indy 4 was so ineffective because there's very little inner-conflict. It's basically a chase picture, and of course when one is being chased, few choices have to be made. "Run," would be a good one. Even Alfred, has to make a critical decision in this movie. Some will question it, others feel it was for the best. Okay, that's my two cents. I can't wait to see it again. That's an easy choice.
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Check out imdb. The same psychotic fanatics that went insane when Return of the King briefly challenged G2's supremacy of the top #250 are losing it again. Oh, I appreciate it's artistic merits, but storywise, the Godfather 2 is one of the most operatically pretentious, inhumanly cold film ever made.
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especially in Batman. I like the idea of the Batman family, with his operatives working all over the city to gather intel and fight crime.
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possible for the sequel to be better or as good.Casey Affleck as Riddler, Paul Giamatti as Penquin and an unknown actress to play Catwomen.
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was killing the Joker. I hope they bring him back in some form. And I hope someone can even come close to Ledger's forever genius. It almost makes me shed a tear just thinking about how good he is in this role, and how no matter how many times I see this movie, I know that as soon as he's hanging off that roof, we'll never see The Joker that way again. Fucking hell. Great review Harry, though yeah, you left out Maggie, and yeah, it really does deserve the hyperbole.
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...want to see another film made, this one is THAT good.
I think, though, that because the ending is such an amazing set-up for a follow-up, the only way Mr. Nolan could craft something worthy of this film would be to write something that, at least thematically, would be this films polar opposite.
I'm just wondering how physically painful it will be for the folks who choose films for Oscars to place this movie up for Best Picture. Can't say if it would win, but damn would it give everything else a run for the money!
??Pseudo??
Out. -
This is the batman i was waiting for.
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If not him, definitely someone British and definitely someone totally dapper and different than Danny DeVito. But who for Catwoman? Did anyone catch the Catwoman foreshadow early in the flick?
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absolutely loved it. All the performances were just picture perfect. I do agree about the ferry scenes though...definitely the weakest part of the movie. Otherwise...loved the chaos that ensued. This was the first summer movie that I've gone to that had people clapping and cheering.
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The Dark Knight was spectacular... now I'm ready for Eckhart to do Cap justice. A period WWII film ending with being frozen and ready to be thawed for Avengers. What can I say... The Dark Knight and this damn summer has inspired me to believe that it can be done right. My money is on Catwoman for B3.
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Putting people in moralistic do-or-die situations. And seriously people, what the fuck was with that ferry scene. Some of the most pointless shit in a movie ever. Yeah I know the point of it was to show that even the people of Gotham (even the criminals) have been inspired by Batman's lead to do good, but it was the worst edited shit I've seen in a while. Did we need all the vote taking? Did we need Tiny Lister becoming the lead character for a chunk of the movie? It was like fucking 12 Angry Men, The Posiden Adventure and the cable car scene in Spider-Man.
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I haven't seen it yet, but am curious about it, Hans & James were saying that they had more of a Batman "theme" in mind for this flick then the last one.
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Heath was the joker. Holy shit.
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(don't read this if you haven't seen it)
I was surprised they killed Dent. I just assumed he would turn at the end of the film and then show up in subsequent films. So for like an hour after the movie I was trying to talk myself into why that was cool, but other than that I thought it was freakin' flawless. That Joker was a perfect character. Seriously, besides Heath's outstanding performance it was written beautifully. Can't believe he won't be back. I'll be seeing it again in IMAX on Monday, and I'm sure that won't be the last time while it's in theaters. It needs to win BEST PICTURE and the ENSEMBLE SAG AWARD. -
Eat a dick, TylerDurden3395. JUST a bit better than Batman Returns? You would have been better off posting "FIRST" and shutting the fuck up. This was a cinematic triumph and a wondrous performance by Ledger. Simply magnetic. This is the Joker we've always wanted but NEVER been shown on screen. Top Fucking Notch.
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I know there isn't anything extravagant that we haven't heard. but for someone like my wee bro who knows nothing so far about this, but is coming on Thurs to see it with me(when its released in the UK) this thread is spoiler filled. Anyway, just a suggestion. Was the Bardem suggestion for the next Joker or am I out of synch? I'd rather they just leave the character hanging. Would probably fit it better.
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I was surprised too, but I think he served his purpose. Granted, we really weren't given much to see how potentially great a villain he could have become....but I think he served his purpose to basically be the catalyst for part three.
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The Joker was counting on the "civilized people" to eat themselves, and they didn't. That was his test of Gotham. Gotham passed. And who doesn't love Tiny Lister????
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At least you actually reviewed it, big guy. Not like Hulk!
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then. That's what I've been doing until I saw the film. You know everyone who's seen it will start posting to these threads to discuss the movie. Just saying...
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Thanks. Nice read.
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They spend TWO hours building him up and then he just becomes a half assed Charles Bronson. Then they kill him off for no good reason. If the movie ended with Dent becoming Two Face, it would've been a flawless picture. I STILL really, really like it (*** 1/2) but the last half hour just didn't work for me.
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Very true, but I wasn't crazy with how the scene played out. I actually thought that the non-prison ferry would press the button, but instead of blowing the other ferry, blow up their own ferry.
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And not just because of what he did but because of what he said before he did it.
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Spolers discussioin:
First, I don't think two-face is dead. I think Harvey Dent is dead. Think about it, its logical. I think that was a memorial they were showing, not a funeral. Movie was excellent! Can't wait to see it again -
decision to claim the responsibilities for the killings. Put in on the run.
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First, no doubt that Ledger's portrayal was great. However, in the next film I would like to see either an original villain, or one that has not been seen and done over and over and over again. Ideas, anyone?
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In American Werewolf in London. Just Saying....
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There are rumors of a 3-hour cut of this. Perhaps Dent's spiral is better chronicled in what was left on the cutting room floor. I think he'll be back next time, though. The cover-up will come back to haunt Bats and Gordon. Sorry about the eat a dick thing, but ye gods, Batman Returns and Friday the 13th part IV? That is just mean.
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I don't know. Some part of me wants them to hire another great versatile actor and give them the part. But part of me thinks theres no way you'll find someone who could pull the same shit off, the same way. Plus it is kind of an insult to Heath to bring in another actor.
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that Two face is locked up? They would be playing a dangerous game if he ever got out, totally blowing the goodwill that Gordon and Batman used his "death" for.
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but the comparisons to Empire are deserved on every level. this was a movie that went further than any of us could have anticipated. and as for all of you bitching about the ferry sequence(SPOILERS AHEAD), that scene was some of the most brilliant social commentary i've seen this year. Lister's casting was sheer brilliance. Nolan knew full good and well that the sight of that actor in an orange jumpsuit would immediately trigger the "he's a bad guy" thought in the heads of every audience member. we were all certain that he was going to turn that key, and what follows was the single most genius rug-pull i've seen in a theater this year. fuck the naysayers, i now know exactly how it felt to walk out of the theater after the opening night of The Empire Strikes Back, in addition to seeing an absolutely perfect on-screen realization of the Joker, my favorite villain of all time. for that, i will be forever indebted to Nolan.
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I thought that would happen on the ferry too. Glad Nolan gave me the dodge on that one.
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Jul 18, 2008 9:28:39 PM CDT
I would want the Joker back, but not in the next one
by just pillow talk
I agree that I would like to see some brand new villain.But the Joker would have to be played by someone who could immerse themselves in the role and 'be' the joker. Heath's performance was just so fucking outstanding.
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So it would work batman into becoming a crusader. An outlaw that fights crime. TOTAL FKING DESTRUCTION.
Amazing movie. 5 stars.
My only hitch is that the Wayne tower is not the same and where's the train thing from Begins? -
Although i don't know if I would want another actor to play The Joker...at least in the Nolan universe. No actor would dare do it. That would be like a rookie drafted by the Chicago Bulls wanting the wear the the number 23 on his jersey. Damn! It just really saddens me that I will never see Heath's Joker again. His performance was like watching a great composer conduct his opus. I actually feel sorry for the actor who has to play a villian in the next Batman. Some comedian, in some club, at one time, had to get on stage after Richard Pryor. That would have sucked too.
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I LOVE Friday 4, it's my third favorite of the series. And Eat a dick is by far one of the kindest things someone's told me in a talkback so it's all good...
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more batty goodness.
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Your idea is AWESOME! Spot-on casting idea. And keeping it period with the frozen lead-in for Avengers... perfect. Here's hoping it happens!
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My point exactly.Yea it is risky storytelling wise as well, but idn, it could easily work. Ill the filmmaking to Nolan and crew, no worries. Just hoping the sequel can live up to this one.
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First of all, Donald Pleasence was Blofield first, in 1967's "You Only Live Twice." Telly Savalas' Blofeld wasn't until 1969's "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." Also, Telly Savalas SUCKED in that role.
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NoI totally understand what you're saying, but its not for me I talking about. I'm already spoilered up, but for people who have been trying to avoid spoiler reviews for this and see a Harry review with no spoiler warning, well I believe this could ruin a few details that might have been able to remain fresh without this review.
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Darfur, especially since Nolan has shown that he doesn't mind have complete and total anarchy and chaos envelop Gotham.
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fuckin 'ell. its gunna make 5 times what it cost.
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fuckin 'ell. its gunna make 5 times what it cost to make
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Jul 18, 2008 9:34:40 PM CDT
1st movie of my lifetime to live up to the hype.
by the guy who slept through everything.
It's amazing, superb stuff all around. People clapped and cheered at the end, I remember a few folks clapping at the end of EPISODE III, but wow. This audience got it, and Ledger blew me away, his entrance into the meeting with the gangsters, sold. Loved the whole thing. Fuck the haters.
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The idea behind the scene (Joker wants the citizens of Gotham to become killers like him) is sound, but it brings the movie to a screeching halt (no Bats or Joker for a good twenty minutes) and is poorly edited to boot. I'm just harping on this scene cause it just took me out of the movie. The fact that it was 2:15 in the morning and my bladder was committing hari kari didn't help either. I plan on giving TDK another viewing later in the week (without drinking an X-Large Coke before hand) and try to give it a fairer shake. Like I said previously, it was flawless for two hours.
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It would make for an interesting story. TwoFace completely losing and not acknowledging who he truly was, while he remains on the hunt to attain "vengence" against Batman and Gordan. Throw in possibly another villian who would have a part in the bigger picture of the story and you have a movie. The quesiton is, Will there be the Joker?
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Yeah, that's true. But if one wants to be spoiler free, I wouldn't read any of the reviews on the off-chance that there were spoilers in there.You don't need the AICN reviews in this case to know this movie kicks your balls up to the roof of your mouth.
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It opened today. Do you mean TDK made 18 million at the Midnight showings? When the returns come in tomorrow, "Opening Day" b.o. numbers will be those showings and today's.
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Rachel Mcadams as catwoman?
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I don't think anyone else should follow his Joker. He owns the role now. If he were alive, I could see him being in the next one. He's not, so my money is on Dent not really being dead. Locked up, insane and pissed off.
If Ledger doesn't get the nod for this it will be fucking amazing. I never once looked on the sceen and saw Heath Ledger. (Seen it 3 times now.) He is the Joker. Aaron Eckhart was outstanding in his role also.
Damn near a flawless movie. -
Go on to Itunes and check out the tune 'Why So Serious?' from the TDK soundtrack. It gives me goosebumps and it immediately brings to mind just how insane Ledger is in this film.
MINOR SPOILER AHEAD
The hype is absolutely deserved on this one. And who else is happy that the film DIDN'T end on a happy note? It was quite bittersweet. Very moving as well, that Batman, the great hero, is chased by dogs in the last scene.
END MINOR SPOILER -
in any more of Nolan's movies. I'm assuming Nolan is only going to do one more and I would think he wouldn't revisit the Joker so soon. As I'm not familiar with Batman from a comic perspective, is there any villain that fits into where the story is left off at? I would think maybe the Catwoman like mentioned above, but who else?
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i have not seen tdk yet...... but thats not to say that I have not been thinking of who could replace heath! i think after the touching speech daniel day lewis gave just after heath passed away I think he would consider the role. I also think in that make up he could possibly be more scary than heath playing an older version he certainly has the look and the acting chops to add even more meat to the character. I think that would be more respectful of heath to continue the Joker in this universe following what he has set out.
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Yea I read it too. It broker SWepisode3's previous midnite showings record on 16.5 million. TDK made 18 million. THis only counts midnite showings.
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I LOVE Batman's voice when he's fucking people up, but having him talk like that during his heartfelt speech about Dent was unintentionally hilarious. Dude needed some Sucrets big time.
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Despite Lucious' mention of the suit being cat-proof, I hope they don't go that route. But if this team is behind it, hell, they can do whatever they want, I'll show up.
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FYI-- Dent didnt actually DIE-- theyre keeping it under wraps of what he was responsible for as Two-Face and Batman is taking the heat. It's a cover( the memorial) and theyre keeping Harvey out of site so that his reputation as DA doesnt get tarnished, which would damage the case they had against the mob-- plus his image to the public/Gotham.
NOW-- why do they have to blow up EVERY batmobile?? I know he has more...but DAMN-- every other movie, no matter the director or script...they gotta blow up the damn car!! ...nice job bringing out the bike though:) -
After Batman saves Rachel from the fall, it jumps to the next day. Isn't the Joker still inside his hotel? Isn't Harvey still locked in some small room?
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if you have to do it i still say shannon sossomon .... shes so hot!!! lol
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ever ever ever. Not in this series, or anywhere else. Worst character ever. Nolan clearly has taste, so I'm guessing we won't see him in this series.
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Jul 18, 2008 9:43:54 PM CDT
It's Like AICNers Just Discovered The Term Hyperbole
by georges garvaren
And now they are passing it around like 8th graders with a VHS copy of Debbie Does Dallas. Term's been around for a while, folks. Just like your mothers dirty puss-mop. TDK = 7.5 outta 10. Spidey 2 was slightly better. Watchmen will be best.
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"They took my thumb, Charlie!" Enter Mickey Rourke.
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The movie's been out less than a day are you fucking kidding me!?! NO ONE'S gonna do it, Jesus H. You have the GREATEST JOKER EVER PORTRAYED playing at your local theater and your talking about who could do it better or who could carry it on, OMFG...
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Idn just opinion. I'm not a big fan of the character and I feel like it would just bring down the Gotham City's "realistic" aim if you get what I'm saying. I always thought she was a weak character btw.
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When the Joker is hanging upside down, it makes his cheeks seem bigger. Reminded of Nicholson's Joker for a second.
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was the best Batman scene of any movie ever. Pure Batman. A lot better than the higher touted Joker interrogation scene. Eric Roberts is awesome. I'm glad he's finally getting good roles in high profile movies. (He WAS the bomb in DOA)
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Jul 18, 2008 9:47:01 PM CDT
depalma, i shoulda said 18 MILL MIDNIGHT SCREENINGS
by thedudeintheshadows
yea thats what i meant. EVEN CRAZIER!!! shit made 18 MILLION from the midnight showings alone. fuck, break me off some of that bread. ill take heath's share.... r.i.p. heath, id spend it well
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--yeah-- I noticed some of that:)
and why was that whole scene sort of out-of-focus?? yo camera man-- wassup with that?? -
The Riddler's would rock the shit, even thoug I don't want to see him in the next movie.
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why not think about someone adding to it .... I bet my ass on it that the nolans where going to include the joker character in the 3rd film as heath was signed for two films, im not questioning the fact that heath was out if this world...... but if the character is so great why stop now when you have people whose ability is just as great as heaths who may be waiting in the wings, i think daniel day lewis is a prime candidate to take over ..... not so sure about javier bardem tho 'arry!!
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FUCKERS. all of you. shit sold out as i was filling out my credit card info on fandango for sunday night. now i gotta wait till FUCKIN monday. damn you. all.
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Can we get a general talkback for those that have seen the film, so there is no concern about spoilers?
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Re: Dent. Personally - I don't know if he's dead. We know Gordon is a conspiratorial type - a schemer. We saw him, at the very least unconscious - and we saw a dedication ceremony for him. But what if they committed him under the table to Arkham. After all - we thought Gordon was dead for a goodly portion of this movie. Like I said - I don't feel he's dead.
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Two-Face/Dent is not dead. Batman told Gordon not to let anyone else know what Dent did and told him that Gotham needed it's true hero now and then he turned the scarred side of his face to the good side. That scene after that was a memorial for his recovery, not a funeral.
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If you haven't seen it and don't wanna be spoiled, don't go on a fucking TDK talkback, it's not hard.
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thats exactly, exactly what I thought when I left the theater. Would make for s great story for the sequel.
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But I bet he'd get along with Daniel Plainview.
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Dude, I was so looking forward to seeing this in IMAX. Sold out until Wednesday!
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How in the hell is Catwoman unrealistic? She's a cat burglar who dresses up like a cat and can kick Batman's ass and that's it. There's nothing unrealistic about her.
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As JFP2007 said, "It's obvious..." about the possibility that Dent is not really dead. And nothing Nolan ever did in this film was obvious. Makes me think that a repeat of the 'dead fake' might not be so likely...
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Nolan, if he does a third film. WIll carry on with someone else, and not revisit the Joker, there's no way, especially if he gets nominated. Alot of folks wanted someone else to try Joker cause Nicholson was so shit at it. And here he is, the greatest Joker portryal I've ever seen, and people wanna talk about OLDER actors talking over? That was one of the big gripes about Nicholson's Joker, come on, just leave it alone Heath's Joker was perfect.
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Wondering what you guys thought of it?
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He did say that he wasn't planning out leaving the warehouse, and he did almost kill himself so it would seem death was the only possibilty. Although as far as a character progression goes, it could seem to him that Dent is dead and only Two-Face remains, if he didn't really die.
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There I said it. TDK was more nuaced and textured Incredible Hulk was tightly edited and Iron Man was a heck of a lot more fun.
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Idn how well she would fit into this universe Nolan has created.Just my opinion. Wouldn't stop me from seeing the movie.
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or was the usual charasmatic (to the point of over-acting sometimes) Eric Roberts, a complete bore? Spoilers ahead! And I knew Ramirez would be a traitor the moment she first appeared on screen. Also, it was obvious Gordon was the driver of the transport truck. Boy, talk about nitpicking, but fuck it, it's hard to find any criticism with this film.
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They have to do something with the Joker in the next film, whether it's a guy in the shadows of a jail cell, a new actor, or explaining away why he's not around. Also, from the dialogue in the scene with Caine and Bale discussing the new suit and how it will work against cats, it would seem that they are at least THINKING about using Catwoman.
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Also, ******SPOILER******
(Dent's not dead. Nolan said it was a mistake for Burton to kill the Joker, why would he set up Dent just to unconvincingly kill him off? If he was really dead, I think they would have made it clear. Plus, it's a comic book. The villain always lives to fight another day.) -
We all know the obvious choice is Halle Berrym choicei
I -
good review. i agree with you sentiments. did you see it on the imax screen? the only drawback to imax is that i spend more mental energy trying to take in the visuals that sometimes i miss hearing what is being said. i am going again tomorrow to see it on a "normal" screen. i need to hear gordon's monologue at the end. i think it may be a great piece of writing. no clue where they take the character from here or what villains they introduce. i just hope nolan takes his time crafting another perfect script and doesn't give into studio pressure a la raimi with spiderman 3. based on nolan's intent to keep batman reality based, he is limiting himself to what villains can plausibly be put on screen. maybe the next movie will be about batman trying to change his image from the scary murderer to something a more noble in the vain of harvey dent that good gothamites can look up to. perhaps that would cause batman to alter his costume into something gray and blue, and maybe taking on a young ward. god i hope not.
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I also thought whichever group pulled the pin would blow themselves up. Had I been on the normal people boat, I would have pulled it before thinking of that though. :o
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I mentioned to my brother after that Eric Roberts didn't annoy me, which was enough, I'd rather him boring than his usual over-the-top acting style. Also, it was pretty obvious that Gordon was driving, but still didn't bother me.
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First off, I haven't seen TDK yet (seeing it in 7 hours from now... yay!!) and I'm totally stoked about it. I truly feel it will live up to the hype and I've been very careful to avoid any major spoilers (even though I REALLY want to know what two face is going to finally look like).
That said, I gotta ask, what the hell is up with all the recent AICN people saying stuff like "it's a definite improvement from Batman Begins" and "no more of that crappy 'I won't kill you but I don't have to save you' dialogue".
I don't know about the rest of you, but in my opinion, Batman Begins kicked ALL KINDS OF ASS!!! I loved that movie and it's because of that movie that I think this movie is going to totally blow me away.
The way they handled the back story (no people, the joker did NOT kill Thomas and Martha Wayne, thank you Chris Nolan for clearing that up), the way he starts building his array of "toys" with the help of Lucius Fox, the way they actually give Jim Gordan a true soul rather than making him some stupid bumbling fool, and finally... FINAL-Fucking-LY they are able to do the character of Alfred true justice.
No offense to the Tim Burton movies (but MAJOR offense intended to those Joel Schumacher cinematic abortions). Micheal Keaton, Jack Nicholson, Alfred Gough, even the Legendary Billy Dee Lando Williams; all of them did a SUPERB job in their respective roles. But they were unfortunately put into Tim Burton movies that happened to have Batman characters. Not a real, pure, "Batman" movie.
Batman Begins did exactly what it was supposed to do. It was supposed to make us forget the past; forget Jack Napier, forget Vicki Vale, forget Prince, and ESPECIALLY forget Bat-Nipples! It did that job perfectly in my opinion.
Don't get me wrong, I think that TDK is going to be even better, but not in the "it's going to correct the mistakes of Batman Begins" way, because Batman Begins had no mistakes. It will be better in that "you just ate a perfectly cooked filet mignon; now here's a 21 year old single malt scotch, to wash it down while you get a hummer from the emmaculate Angelina Jolie (or pick your own favorite to replace her if you wish)" way.
What?.... Too much detail? Sorry
Anyway, my point is that Batman Begins needs no "improvement". It was the "first course" of the meal. It was the "appetizer", and a DAMN TASTY one at that. TDK is simply going to be the second course.
And with that I'll stop my rant.
Bon Appetit' Everyone! Enjoy the show! -
All she needs to do is make her own costume and chase down Nolan, stalker-style.
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I see what you are saying .....but !!! as with batman begins they had an idea of the dark knight as goyer (lightly penned) a 3 film script. Im guessing but it would be a pity to change whatever was planned (lightly) on account of heath passing. Nolan has got it right up to now and heath signed a 2 movie deal so at some point the joker was coming back again in batman 3. I would never want a repeat of Nicholson's Joker as that was always cak and highly over rated but at least day lewis has the frame, has the gauntness and always seems younger than he is, in other words he isnt an old fatty! But if there was a story arc with a continuation on the joker in this series i wanna see it. Whether we like it or not heath will not be the last person to play the joker on screen, and he has by al account put in the diffinitive joker, I just hope they dont changed the 3rd film to much now heath has very sadly gone
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It would be a nice twist to have Ghul's daughter Talia really work Bat's gadget, hehehe.
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Had the same fucking shit the second time I saw it(won advance tickets to a screening on tuesday). Fucking scum of the earth.
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in vogue now the dark knight is out and Heath Ledger, by all accounts, has done a fantastic job as the Joker to criticize Jack Nicholson.
Whilst in retrospect Jacks Joker may not measure up to the writing and different motivational story of Ledgers Joker, I don't believe for one second in '89 Harry had such disdain for the villian on offer. Just no.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I take issue to such correctional history. The Dark Knight's acclaim offers wonderful things to future 'comic book adaptations' and hopefully they'll be taken more seriously, but saying pretty much 'oh I always knew it could be this way' is lame excusionalist behaviour. No offence though Harry, I like you're style and a frequent visitor of the site. -
*SPOILER* When the bald guy on the civilian ferry stepped up to push the detonator button for the prisoner ferry, then felt bad about it and put it down, I thought it would be a WAY more realistic comment on our society to have the soccer mom w/ the little kid say "Fuck that, no convict is gonna blow up my baby!" and make a hysterical grab for the detonator. As wormy as the bald businessman stereotype is meant to be, nobody can out-do an overprotective mocha mom for ends-justify-the-means cold bloodedness.
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i don't want to see anyone else put on the paint in the next movie. when bale, nolan, and everyone moves on, then sure, let the recasting begin, but one of the things that ruined the burton begun franchise was the musical recasting. nolan's batman has a distinct continuity to it, i don't want to be pulled out of my suspension of disbelief by being reminded that it's a different actor. they were able to get away with it with rachel dawes, but really her character wasn't that important. she existed only to provide motivation for the other characters. that's true for both films.
also, one of the things that irritates me with the superman franchise is the constant fight against lex luthor. yes, i realize he's superman's nemesis, but over the course of 60 years these heroes have built up such a tremendous rogue's gallery it's really lazy and boring to keep recycling the same villains. i really liked that about batman begins, that they used a villain that hadn't been in a batman film before. -
The Joker is no more. Having any ANY other actor play him (in Nolan's series) would send a shiver down the spine of every single person who watch the Dark Knight.
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shannon sossomon all the way for catwoman she is soooooooooo fine and sexy !! movin on ahem! bricktops hammer you are right I do think the joker will be in the next one i think it was planned that way, i just keep comin back to a two movie deal and i dont think i would have been a bit part like scarecrow
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if they created an entire new villian for the third film. I don't plan on seeing that, but its just a thought.
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I think they were going to do something similar with Scarecrow in TDK, which was cool, but pointless. So it wouldn't really have measured up to anything plot wise, IMO. I think now, they'll change up a possible 5-10 minute appearance and carry on.
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But Batman Returns is easily one of the worst films ever made. I watched it on cable the other night and could only continue it's viewing in total shock. Horrible. Absolute dreck, and that's coming from a pretty big fanboy of, well, anything.
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yea soylentmean, i finally snapped a fews years back and stood up during King Kong and yelled,"why dont you suck my cock with that open mouth assholes." to a family whose kids wouldnt stfu at the midnite showing. Cmon for real bring your family during the day, not at the fucking midnight showing where you have the real fans.
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get over it.... ALL of you get over having someone else play the joker ! if its done right you wont even notice after 20 min into the film, and whos to say that someone else may match the current performance !!?
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I really kinda like the idea of have a Joker in jail in the shadows so that the recasting would't matter too much. But MAN they really have to get the voice right if they do that. Kind of like Lecter in the scene with the towel in Silence. Maybe Batman could use him much the same way Clarise used Hannibal. Shit, The Joker could even escape at the end and you wouldn't even have to see it. I don't know, it really really sucks that he died.
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Jul 18, 2008 10:28:03 PM CDT
Wow @ all these shit stories from the midnight show
by the guy who slept through everything.
I went to a little 6 theater where about 30 people showed up, and no one laughed at the joker dialogue, though I did clap at the magic trick scene, and at the end, they knew how to how a movie.
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I think you were watching BATMAN & ROBIN, no. I'm pretty sure you were. :D
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Amen, I fucking hate that movie.
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I know it'd be intimidating as hell for any actor to follow in Heath's footsteps considering how amazingly he owned that role...
BUT...
if they did bring the Joker back, Depp's the only actor I could see stepping up and nailing it. Isn't he subbing for Ledger on the new Gilliam film? -
it's how you start a catchphrase. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to sound right.
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i dont think it would have been a 10 min of the film something maybe more substantial, like harry said im all for someone taking the character on .... but they are gonna have to good, real fucking good as if this story will stay dark and in the film where the joker says we'll be doing this forever !! it just makes you wonder that there are some legs left in that story
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Could work
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It can be done. Probably shouldn't, but keep him as a side helper who mainly does surveillance and helps Batman out tactically. (Like Luscius did with the sonar.) If he fights, it is only in extreme cases.
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No doubt. Definitely not dead. Can't believe everyone thinks he is.
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seemed a cool chap with a shit load of talent :(
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Why the Depp hatred?
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I don't know, I just can't see anyone else topping that, and anyone who would try on a dead man's shoes. Ledger is the Joker in my mind, and it's fucked up he's got a action figure kiddies are playing with.
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its that simple. No other analysis needed.
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Maybe!?! Loved Brick, and that new heist movie he was in wasn't bad. Just maybe....
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Dude, it'll be tough for ANYBODY to match that performance, we're just throwing out some ideas of who could take over a roll that seems likely in the next film, if only for a few scenes. That said, I wish they could replace Keanu with Depp in every fucking movie Keanu's ever done, he he
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I probably skipped it because he was in it. I'll have to check it out.
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I'm leaning much heavier in favor of DDL since his turn as Daniel Plainview ranks among the top five best performances in any film ever since the dawn of film itself.
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Jul 18, 2008 10:52:33 PM CDT
From the summer that brought us Meet Dave and The Happening..
by the dum guy
We get a good movie.I wonder what would happen if the Joker got with the Scarecrow to whip up some Joker/Fear toxin-gas to spray on Gotham and had Two-Face running around trying to find enough Visine for his left eye, which has no eye lid and would cause major discomfort from drying. Maybe, there is a better story instead.
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CAN PLAY JOKER AFTER THIS! FUCKING NO ONE!!!!!
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I'm convinced DDL can play anything...so yeah, I agree.
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is a constant figure in the Batman universe. Someone else IS going to have to play him. Period
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But the Joker's role will be reduced to him playing a kind of Hannibal Lecter behind-the-glass type of character. Of course it sucks ass that he will have to be recast, but if they get someone great, I think it can be pulled off. It just sucks so bad that Ledger died because it really is a remarkable performance.
Heres a weird though... maybe the death was faked like Gordon's death and he'll be back again??? No, thats, thats just wrong, I'm sorry. R.I.P. Heath. Thanks for giving us the greatest Joker ever and one of the greatest villains ever in the history of film. -
I don't understand why there was no follow up to the joker busting in on Wayne's party for Dent. Batman jumps out the window after Rachel leaving the joker and his thugs with the guests. After catching Rachel and they talk there's a cut to the next day, some convo with Gordon and other cops. WTF?
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22 years older, wow. Lets hope Joey's up to it
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I dunno if I really wanna see a 3rd one. I mean, trilogies never really end up paying off the way they should. Just a few examples: GODFATHER, STAR WARS, X-MEN...to name a few. But should a 3rd Batman come about, why not have Ra's return with Talia at his side? Have Bruce seriously reconsider his offer of the ultimate "ends justify the means" approach of saving Gotham? Also, I'm just curious to see if the dude that found out about Bruces' night life has anything to do in part 3. But then again that's just me.
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Joker dropped the broad so he and his goons could escape, no need for a scene
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Amen, good sir.
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Didn't happen in the movie I saw, quite the opposite, actually
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There needed to be something to follow up on the party, even if it was just a quick shot of Joker leaving with what was left of his crew, or Batman going back to the party and finding out that Joker split but he left a card that said something darkly humorous. The jump from that scene to the next day was definitely jarring. Just a quibble, I know, cause I fucking LOVED the movie.
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Yeah, Heath Ledger was better, but I think Burton made the joker as crazy as the suits would let him back in the 80s. We saw how dark he made the Penguin in the sequel, when he had more power. Heath Ledger was great, but that doesn't take anything away from Jack Nicholson's performance, he deserved his accolades back in the day.
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he should be played by Johnny Depp.
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Should Heath get nominated? Abso-fuckin-lutely. Will he win? Dunno. Honestly I'll be fucking thrilled if it goes as far as the nomination. I mean, c'mon, they nomoinated a guy for playing a drunk, slightly gay pirate in a movie based on a theme park ride! no reason to ignore ledgers' performance in this one.
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I think there are actors that would JUMP at the chance to portray the Joker in the next movie. Methinks you underestimate the collective egos in Hollywood
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Jack's take was more in line with the 60s tv show, just gothed up. Ledger's is on par with the greatest, most frightening, and most sinister villains in film history.
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I don't think they should recast. Having said that I don't know how they'll get around it. It was fairly obvious that this wasn't going to be it for the Joker.
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There's probably a scene that got cut. Def want to see that 3hr version if it exists
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It's a small issue, and you're probably right regarding what the film makers were intending. But it's one thing to imply something like an off-screen death, of which there are many in TDK, and another to jump to an unrelated scene without any clear coherence. It seems more like an oversight.
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Penguin/Oswald Cobblepot -- The criminal element needs a legitimate businessman with a shady underside to organize crime. Two-Face will run the shady underside and report back to Cobblepot....Catwoman -- She can fit into this world b/c now that the major crime lords are gone, it's a free for all and the petty thieves are the ones who fly under the radar.....I don't see this franchise going past 4-5 movies tops so to bring another actor in to play the Joker would be an insult to Ledger's performance.
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Jack Nicholson was a fucking awesome joker. And that Batman movie was better than anything Nolan could ever conjure.
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Penguin/Cobblepot challenges Wayne's hold on Gotham while Catwoman fits with the split personality/dichotomy of the others in the movies....How fine a line is there between good and evil?
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True, possibly a cut scene in the 3hr version
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At times the mask on Bale's face looked terrible and awkward, particularly close-ups, at times it also seemed that the eye holes were too low, and looked weird. Also, Bale's Batman voice seemed grating and a little weak at times (ex. when he says he's not wearing hockey pads and his speech to the joker about the heroism of the gothamites). I wish they had done some post-production distortion to help him out a bit. Anyhow, I did like the film. These are just slight nuisances.
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Anxiously waiting to see it myself on Sunday. What intrigues me most about Dark Knight is the very thing you touched upon in your review, the idea of escalation. That conversation between Gordon and Batman at the end of Begins set up my anticipation for this movie pretty damn well. It's what I've been focused on throughout the entire campaign for Dark Knight. What are we in store for? I could care less if Dark Knight is Oscar-worthy or not. I only want to see what Nolan has in mind when it comes to escalation. From what I hear, every aspect of this film is elevated over the previous one. Big question now is will escalation continue into the third film (I assume Nolan is helming a trilogy)? If so, Nolan has a set a high bar for himself here. Could he deliver the first trilogy where, IMO, the third film is greater than both its predecessors? Doubtful, but an intriguing notion nonetheless.And Harry, way to give props to Oldman. I thought he did a great rendition of Gordon in Begins, and I'm anxious to see how his role develops along with the rest of the returning cast. I'll take my leave of this talkback for now until I've seen the movie myself. Way too many spoilers floating around now. Hope everyone is having a ball this weekend. Cheers!
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That's really the shame in this, Eckhart really knocked it out of the park and is being overshadowed by Ledger's death. I really credit the writers more than Ledger in this version of the Joker. Little things like the magic trick and the fire truck on fire, things that only the Joker would find funny scattered throughout the movie really made the character work. Ledger did a good job with a great script, but I have a feeling if he was handed the 89 Batman script it would have been nearly a mirror of Nicholson's performance. Eckhart really pulled the movie off though in my opinion. He just came across as such a decent guy that radiated warmth in the beginning, which made his fall so much worse. Hope to see the guy cast in alot more visable roles soon. I'm really hoping for Riddler or Bane for the next one, I could see either working very well in this Batman universe. I have a feeling they are going to go for a Selina Kyle \ Catwoman pic next time tho with Racheal gone now.
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Jul 18, 2008 11:23:49 PM CDT
If Ledger spent a whole month in seclusion to play Joker, then..
by the dum guy
If an actor wanted to one up on on the role and really own the role of the Joker for another sequel, they should go into seclusion for a few years and try to get into character. Of course they might go insane.
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Jul 18, 2008 11:24:10 PM CDT
All in all, I think I feel sorriest for the Batman imposter guy
by greggers
The scene where we see his execution was heartbreaking. He was so childlike in his misguided devotion, and so terrified at his predicament, and the fact that we knew how it was going to end made it all the more horrible. This may sound trite, but I think Batman imposter guy was every kid who dreamed of being Batman. Batman imposter guy was our proxy.
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spit in my eye and punched me in the Taint...then I got up and said.."Please sir..may I have another..."
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"This movie kind of reminded me of the spin-off movie they made from the live action tv series way back in the 70's or 60's where all the bad guys team up on Batman." Didn't remind me of that at all
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I watched that when it came out and I've seen it numerous times since...that was a phone in performance from Jack... it was like he thought 'this is just a stupid comic book movie that i'm getting paid a shitload of money for, let's make sure i don't cost myself too many street cred points by taking this seriously'. I honestly don't know why anyone liked him in the role beyond some kind of projection of his previous roles onto the character of the Joker. Cause watching him in Batman was like watching him in the Adam Sandler movie. But, hey, maybe for people who knew and loved Jack it was a hell of a good time and I'm happy they enjoyed themselves. I just thought he was fat and creepy in a molesting uncle kind of way.
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Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever see this extended cut. Nolan seems to be the sort of director who argues that the theatrical cut is the final and directorial cut (i.e., the best version of the movie). He also never includes commentaries or deleted scenes.
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Max Cady gets all the praise, but I don't think I've ever heard anything like that scream Mitchum unleashes in the river. It's damn bizarre how I could laugh and have my pants scared off in the same scenes with that character.
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was a better Joker performance than the one in Batman 89 i have to admit lol
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I thoguht that Dent was really dead till everyone pointed out you don't KNOW he's dead, then I felt retarded. So, I think its staged. I've also read stuff that implies that we don't know the whole story about Rachel.
But come one, someone's gotta actually be dead, right?
(just not gordon, a fine performance there, HP fucked itself because one of their only fine actor's characters is killed) -
movies for a living calling anyone who disagrees with him juvenile...now THAT is some funny shit.
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is to introduce Harley, as like a Joker copycat. But I dunno, Harley without Joker might not work. Just a thought, though.
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In the old movie I seem to remember The Joker, The Riddler, The Penguin, The Catwoman, The Mad Hatter and I think I'm forgetting someone, all teaming up. In this one there was The Joker and some Two-Face and the mob(s) all trying to fuck each other over. Similar? Guess we'll have to agree to disagree
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Jul 18, 2008 11:34:40 PM CDT
Finally, a Hollowood movie onboard with the war on terror
by immortal_fish
Finally, a Hollowood movie onboard with the war on terrorYeah, I'm a conservative. Get over it now before reading further. No, I don't like Bush. And I certainly do not like McCain. Yet I am on board with the war on terror at large. I write this with understanding that the war on terror does not mean killing a single man, Bin Laden (aka the Joker). I know many of this site's frequentors feel differently. Sorry. We disagree. Please spare me your juvenile insults if you respond to this TB. Instead, check out the first article in the Bill of Rights which so recently afforded Jesse Jackson a convenient double-standard. On the other hand, rational debate is certainly encouraged.To me, this movie was a refreshing Hollowood take on questioning how the war on terror is being prosecuted. It wasn't all lefty-leany. The atypical Hollowood fare. Instead, the flick was very "fair and balanced" if you AICN majority liberals can stomach such a phrase. Ultimately, this carefully nuanced movie made me think long and hard about the steps we've taken as a nation toward such an end.The scene with the two cruise ships astounded me. I had thought the set up was that the Joker planted the detonator on each ship FOR that ship. In other words, had they pressed the trigger, they would have blown up their own ship. Another ho-hum done-that-before arc. I was pleasantly suprised that the movie portrayed Americans, of any stripe, as above sacrificing others to benefit themselves. Even if such sacrifice meant that of "cold hearted" crimminals. You left-leaners should understand this already were I to stereotype you. I write the word "perhaps" in jest. Of course you do. We conservatives were the ones stereotyed in that particular scene and you know it. And we were portrayed fairly. That resonated with me big time. Especially since it is accurate, despite what you may think.Look, there is no clearer message than the cell phone "sonic" technology that Fox created which Batman employed -- "unilaterally" even. It's all about the Bush wiretapping, period. Fox (pun?) clearly had issues with the use of such a tool and theatened Batman with a dissolvement of their relationship at risk of Gotham at large. And yet, Batman made his promises and used this technology only to its intended end, the elimination of the Joker. Afterward, it was destroyed. He ultimately upheld the peoples' trust and Lucius's trust.Opposing Batman is not the Joker. It was Dent. The typical fall from grace arc that I normally would be bored with if it wasn't utilized as such a contrast and analogy to that of Batman's. Dent had truly noble beginnings that ultimately dissolved when things got personal (i.e. harkening to how the alleged allegations of Dubya seeking payback for 41's assassination attempt). Where Batman tempered his vigilante ways with a code of ethics and morality, Dent made his sinister choices on a luck of the draw. Perhaps, even, the "heat of the moment." The likes of which the USA has been justly and heavily criticized of this in recent years.Which brings me to the question this movie urged me to consider -- is my home country embodied by Batman or Dent? We are acting unilaterally in many ways. Most countries often do. As were the folks on the cruise ships, both felon and civilian. But are our actions in the interest of the greater good (Batman) or are we acting totally irrationally (Dent)? AND how can we deal with such shit when a force of nature (the Joker) is literally laughing in our faces while we ponder? How rare in this day and age for a high budget Hollowood movie, a COMIC BOOK movie at that, to force us to reflect and decide? I think I enjoyed this ethical dillemma more than the movie itself.Go ahead. Rip me up. You know you want to. BTW, the Obamassiah was against wiretapping (http://tinyurl.com/5jwv92) before he was for it (http://tinyurl.com/5bghgb). But absolute truths are inadmissable when it's so much more easy to paint someone a racist.
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Batman has got to somehow redeem himself, he can't be seen as a murderer for too long or else the symbol of the Batman as justice is screwed.And, the Joker knows Bats would never kill from first hand experience, so he could (would'a) use that knowledge against Batman somehow.
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Time for the T-shirts!!!
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What an utter waste of a movie! I so had high hopes for it and I fell for all the praise lavished on Ledger's Joker. That was the one and only reason to see this putrid drivel of a movie. I started reading Harry's comments and I sensed apologism between the lines. It might not be your type of movie because of X. Terrible way to disguise a bad movie. From the jump all over the place editing to the weak screenplay I was so let down in every way. First: The Suit! Clunky, distracting, and ugly. At times it looked so bad it destroyed any kind of menace or mystique about the hero. He didn't feel like a superhero at all, just an ordinary man in a ridiculous suit. Ugh* Sell us w/some coolness at minimum. Gawd! Two: Bale...Phony acting and he couldn't sell Bruce or Batman to save his life. Walking in with the sluts off the helicopter and into the fundraiser seemed so uncomfortable for him. Downey Jr, now he sold playboy billionaire. Bale just didn't/couldn't sell it there or with Batman. And talk frickin' normal already! If Kent can wear glasses to disguise his Superman identity, I think we can roll w/a normal talking Batman. It wasn't menacing in the least. Three: Fight scenes...hang the choreographer from the gallows. Tight closeups to disguise how lame the fighting was does not help either. Four: Nolan...Cannot...repeat, cannot direct action! He barely musters on the drama scale either. Five: Screenplay...Probably the most grievous offense of all, the story just sucked ass. From the stilted contrived go nowhere dialogue to overuse of smashcutting. I just felt like an outsider looking in and not really a part of the movie. I wasn't transported to this gritty Gotham they tried to portray. Six: Big name stars...Couldn't save this movie from being lamo. Caine, Freeman and Oldman were so wasted. I felt bad for Heath, his last send off movie that he just owned and it had to be in this steaming pile of turd. He deserved better from cinematography, directing, and screenplay. His talent, so wasted. Seven:Rachel...Why bother? Leave out the character if their ain't gonna be some heat. And cast a character that at least brings some heat. Eight:Reboot the series with a new director and screenwriter. I know what they were going for but it just doesn't work in a superhero movie. There was no joy and rush at all watching this movie and the theater I sat in I saw many restless people. When the lights went up, I saw a lot of disappointment from young and old people. Nine:Too damn long! Mainly because it was a chore watching the thing. I can sit through a LOTR marathon if necessary because I forget my surroundings. Not this. And not ever again. Ten:Shoot whoever greenlit this turd. Okay, hang 'em. I gave Begins a chance but two thirds through when we reached climax the director lost control and it was an incredible mess from story to directing. I lied to myself and said I'll just go for Heath. Fine. But I also paid to see 'Batman'. What a joyless piece of crap. And those comparing this to Heat. Yeah, this was crappy knockoff then and a poor job at that. I grew up reading Batman and this was not Batman. This was a silly impostor Batman like the vigilantes in the first act. DC...For godsake, reboot! That won't happen because of the big weekend take. I had to laugh when I read from writers on this site that how could there be a third? If only they'd stop at two. Take about five years off and rethink, recast and rewrite. I still want my money back.
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The point remains.
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Jul 18, 2008 11:41:39 PM CDT
Maggie Gyllenhall is a fucking DOG- seriously not attractive
by jugdish
Movie was good but her ugly ass face was a distraction
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could be heath's spiritual succesor! you gotta figure the next batman won't be out for another 3 to 4 years, in with Joseph will be well into his 30's by then. this could work!
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"I just felt like an outsider looking in and not really a part of the movie." Two reasons for that: (1) It is a movie not a video game (2) Unless you helped make the movie, I don't see how you can feel you are a part of it.I'm sure you loved Batman and Robin (are you Joel Schumucker?)
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Fuck it in its stupid, big ass balloon, Prince soundtrack, fucking parade float, 'Love That Joker', Smylex, bullshit cornhole. This fucking Joker IS the fucking Joker, end of fucking story.The whole time I watched this, I fucking knew that this guy was a crazy fuck. It wasn't 'guy pretending to be bugnuts' it was 'This guy's fucking crazy, and being around him too long, your ass will go crazy too.'. That he was crazy in a way that no one would want to emulate, a villain that was villainous and enough of a pathetic shit that you just can't look away from him. Finally, a villain I liked and loathed myself for laughing at at the same time. Joker? A fucking nutbar with knives and some kind of idiot savant ability to plan fucking carnage. I imagine the first couple of months that Keyser Soze went on his rampage of revenge? He was like this guy...only not quite as crazy. This Joker is unique, and yet, THE fucking Joker. He's not an affable goofy vaude-villain, like Caesar Romero...He's not the fucking lunatic 'artiste' that Nicholson jerked off onto the screen...nor is he the over the top Joker that Hamill made awesome on the cartoon...In fact, the cartoon Joker would be scared of this fucker. The Arkham Asylum one shot would BE this Joker, and 'The Killing Joke' Joker would BE this Joker. The DKR Joker, Miller's crowning achievement? This is the Joker the Bat would break necks for. The Nolans wrote a balls to the wall, DETECTIVE COMICS Batman story that played out like a mini series on the screen. It was fucking fantastic. It is, however, just a flick, but fuck, man. It's pretty fucking amazing that something this good got past the boards with 'comic book' as its source.The ferry scene was good because by this point, you're sitting in your seat, squirming, because this movie's not pulling your pud pretending that everything's gonna be fine, that Batman can save everyone, it's telling you that thinking everything's gonna be fine is not only a lie, but the worst thing you can do in their shitty world because with guys like the Joker...you NEVER know.SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN IT I think the Joker rigged the detonators to blow up the boats they were on, not the other boat. They got every single thing right about Batman. Everything. He's a detective in this flick, and a badass. They got every character right, and Rachel Dawes was the perfect character for this flick. It was so damned good.The Nolans deserve the fucking nod for this screenplay. Oscars, baby. This flick deserves it.
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I also thought that under different circumstances Eckhart would be getting more attention. It was almost Dent's movie. I'd be interested to see the amount of screen time each character had.
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Jul 18, 2008 11:46:52 PM CDT
elric666 is BOTH Akvia Goldsman and Joel Schumacher
by the guy who slept through everything.
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I love how you start out your rant with an impassioned plea for rational discourse and not to bash conservatives, and then spend the next several paragraphs spewing invectives about how liberals are psychotic unamerican cretins who can't have rational discourse! Haha! Oh man. You basically modeled the whole neocon rhetorical process so succinctly and indicted yourself so completely in the process that I almost suspect you are satirizing the whole (now thankfully dead) neocon movement. Priceless! Thanks for the laugh. Maybe you should write for Stephen Colbert?
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Thanks for your thoughts about how this film's themes were absolutely about our country in a post 9/11 world. Everything from wire tapping to rendition and torture and even health care(the cop who did the thing for the reason). This film was meant to make the audience think about all of these things. There are some statements that the film makes, but others that it really just leaves you to think about yourself. What would you do? What have we done? I am happy that this film finally succeeded in bringing a large portion of our country into a conversation about these issues... all in a super hero movie. Gotta love that.
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Yeah, I am an invective spewing neocon cretin that wants to read anything but discourse from far lefty liberals. You are absolutely correct.Having written that, please respond to the "other" words you read in my post. Thanks.
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few years from now,after this movie's been on dvd and special edition dvd for a while,you decide you wanna watch a batman film, is this the one you're gonna go for first, would you ever consider watching batman 89 ever again? i am a fan, haven't seen TDK yet, just wondering how you feel about that.
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i want my 6 seconds that i spent scanning your crying over $10 back. mow some extra laws kiddo. it's not the end of the world.
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I just got back... 7pm est show. I can't believe i actually saw that. amazing. best batman movie - ever. i have no idea how it can be topped. this is now the benchmark for superhero films... and fuck is it set high.
no one... NO ONE can play the joker ever again... sigh. -
Batman 89 is dead to me.
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Oh no, I'm far too liberal to have discourse with you, why should I bother. No liberal is capable of having rational discourse, remember? You said so yourself. Gosh it must be tough being a downtrodden white right winger. I hope I didn't hurt your wickle feelings too much with all my evil twisted liberalness. Praise Jeebus! Haha!
But wait, seriously, you were being ironic / satirical with that opening part, right? Because if not, you are a RAGING hypocrite. -
I have as much chance as watching the 66 batman movie again than I do Batman 89, Batman Returns, yep. Also, Eckhart is deserving for nomination as well, eventhough he won't get it.
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For me it's like watching the old version of Journey to the Center of the Earth with Pat Boone. It's a classic now. It's not the Burton masterpiece that Returns was, but it has a lot going for it.
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You mentioned things I did not in my initial post -- torture and health care. Quite apt of you. I missed the health care analogy but remember it since you mention. Of course, Bats interrogating the Joker is an obvious "torture" analogy.Ultimately -- there was a time when Hollowood made us THINK instead of preach to us. An unexpected return to form, this movie.Honestly, I did not like Batman Begins at all for many reasons. I went to this movie tonight only as a social bridge with my 17-year old son. And I am still amazed at the epiphany it led me to.It wasn't much more than an entertaining movie, but it made me think. And that is what makes it a GREAT movie.
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Funny guys...I'm sorry, I really wanted to like it. And no, I'm not schumacher/akiva either. But a story has to breath a little. It was all slapped together with some great moments in between. Put some moments of mirth and soul into the characters so you can cheer them on or hate them. Let's seen in a few years after repeat viewings how we all feel. Me included. I always wanted a bad ass batman too, but this?
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Let me be the first to say, you have an interesting take on Batman. And I won't be the last to say that condescending bullshit, even wrapped up in nice little grammatically correct sentences is still....ah...condescending bullshit. Ahem. Let me spell this out for you so you understand where this 'lefty-leaning-liberal' is comin' from, partner.Wiretapping AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZENS is against the FOURTH FUCKING Amendment to the Constitution you tried to reference earlier in your statement. I have the right to fucking privacy. I'm an American. Don't matter a whit if you're trying to catch Osama (Yeah, dead fucking brill job of that so far...Keep looking for him in this country, who knows? You might fucking push one of the nice paranoid, the government's comin' for mah guns, Right Wing Tim McVeigh motherfuckers to do just that, be our very own Joker.) Now, you want to wiretap NON-American citizens on our soil? Know what books THEY check out of the library? Fucking extradite them to some hell-hole and interrogate the shit out of them if you have proof of wrongdoing? Go right ahead. Until they're citizens, they've got no reason to bitch. So, I believe in the CIA and the FBI and the NSA...but you cannot police your own people by treating them like fucking criminals. Torture...well, that's really up to the viewer, yeah? Morally, I'm against torture, as well as logically. Because torture does nothing to gain solid intel, according to the guys doing the torturing since the 70s or so. Reading a lot, I guess, makes me 'liberal'.Next on my list of your grasping for straws, house of cards analogy, is the fact that you assume this is some kind of pastiche of post-911 'rah rah' bullshit for YAAAY! America!The fact that The Joker in this case is right, that we fucking panic too easy, and cave into the demands of terrorists when the chips are down should tell you this. Fuck, I can't catch a goddamned airplane anymore without a telescope going up my ass and some dipshit with an IQ of 9 checking out my fucking shoes for bombs.While John McCain (yeah, you don't like him...who can blame you? Fuck, if he were MY SIDE'S candidate, I'd hate him too) was callin' us a bunch of whiners, Obama had an actual policy speech on the war on terror. He said, when the terrorists used planes, we strengthened plane security. Fucking Richard Reid comes up with the 'shoe bomb'...I gotta wear sandals on the plane like a fucking criminal for the rest of this douchebag's presidency...The problem is, no one has the balls to say who the real fuck enemies are; and guess what? It's not Americans. It's the fucking Pakistanis, and the short sighted corporate fucks in the Administration who tried to get to the 'Joker' in this case, by beating up the fucking 'Riddler'...no, Hussein was the fucking King Tut of this little metaphorical dinner plate, I guess. A tinpot despot who had all the fucking sway of a fruit fly outside of Iraq.And lastly, in your metaphor, if Batman were truly us, and the Joker were that amorphous 'islamo-fascist-terrorism' you sweat so hard...when we catch Bin Laden in our sights, we'd hand him over to the UN right? Or put him in an asylum? No, you and I both know where he SHOULD go: In the fucking ground upside down and pissed on by lunatics. But, Batman wouldn't do that shit, man. Batman has fucking standards. And for a long time before George Bush, so did America.Maybe we will again.
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I am an agnostic. Surprise!
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Honestly, I'd rewatch any Batman movie (and have) other than B&R (which I haven't).You know what is now an unintentionally funny thing the Joker said, the line how about how gas is cheap. Funny.
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I'm surprised more people aren't talking about Joker flipping Dent in that hospital scene. That is the coolest shit ever. "I'm just a dog chasing a car. I wouldn't know what to do if I caught it!" Harvey flipping the coin with gun to Joker's head, "Now we're talking"
How can you hate that? That's easily worth another $10 to go see again. -
I think that the real underlying symbol extends outside the film itself and touches on other superhero characters. Superman is how conservative americans see the US -- a god-hero above reproach who can do anything, and Batman is how the rest of the world see us -- a psychotic vigilante who uses questionable motives to reach ends which, at least in the case of TDK (and in the case of the completely unjustifiable Iraq War), turned out to emphatically NOT justify the means.
In terms of just the film itself, I think Harvey Dent symbolizes how twisted the country has become because of the methods used over the past 7 years. We are the monsters now. We are the bad guys. We are the Imperial threat in its waning days as a superpower. It won't always be like that, though. This is a great country, and we can get back on track. I reckon sometime around November when Obama becomes president, the healing process can begin, and he US can once again assume its roll as beacon of hope and justice rather than imperial oil wars and lies.
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that evil wisper-talk. It's ok i guess when he's fucking up the bad guys. BUT when he uses it to the people who know his true identity... yikes. (i was hopeful they would do away with it...just like doing away with Katie Holmes.)
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maybe studios will now find a new reason to dumb down big budget movies: a movie so good that a sequel can't top it and kills the franchise.
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I really liked it but I didn't like the long ass Ferry scene, and did they kill Two-Face that was just like Venom and that kind of pissed me off. Especially how the fall didn't seem that far, but I guess it was. I loved Heath's protrayl of the Joker that truly lived up to the hype he was phenominal. I loved it and I do pray that even though he's gone Nolan brings the Joker back PLEASE the Joker is the best Batman villain
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I'm quite partial to '89. The coloring, lighting, and camera angles were masterful to Nolan's effort. Whereas TDK is a complete film with many subjective messages and fine acting by a well-rounded cast, the '89 film is simply too fun to watch. Nicholson didn't hurt it at all.On the other hand, were someone to cut TDK into a bukkake reel of all Ledger all the time, I might reconsider! Yes, the man does indeed live up to the hype. He is the "Killing Joke" Joker only with his own spin on the character, ala Johnny Depp's pov.
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he has while he does it. Im done.
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I think the only actor that could even come close to protraying the Joker as great as Heath did is Johnny Depp. I mean he would be awesome as the Joker he definitely has the range to pull him off. The Joker was like a twisted up version of Sweeney Todd, Willy Wonka, and Captain Jack.
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Jul 19, 2008 12:15:09 AM CDT
it was full of little nagging flaws, but i just didnt care
by bmacsmith
the performances were so great and the dialogue so solid i was mesmerized. i just skipped right past the weak parts. Batman was the worst part of the movie. i agree the voice thing was lame. i dont get that at all. and no way Joker could have rigged all that stuff to blow up, but it was so worth it just to see him fuck shit up.
another thing. was it just my theater or was the music so loud you couldnt hear the speech at the end when he was fleeing? i couldn't. -
I know everyone's talking about his antics and the pencil scene and what not, but my favorite line had to be when someone called him crazy and with a serious expression, one of anger mixed with hurt, he said, "No, I'm not. I'm not." Almost childlike. That's Ledger's brilliance.
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I DO NOT!!!!!!!!!!
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Jul 19, 2008 12:19:48 AM CDT
any actor willing to take on the Joker role after this performan
by fiester
...would havr to be as batshit crazy as the real Joker.
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I wish this movie got an R, even hard-R, because I really wanted to see The Joker graphically mutilate the various people he murdered. The part where he goes on about the "why so serious?" especially, where he has his knife in the guys mouth.
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the way he said it. like he hated everyone and just stopped with the Joker act for a split second and he was just a tortured, sadistic guy who just wanted to kill everything!
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for every immature person on the left there are 1000 mature who just aren't talking on the internet or who just aren't getting into fights on the internet when they do talk. as i know there is on the right. i grew up in a conservative home and now I'm a liberal, but like most liberals I don't see conservatives as the bad guys. are there some people that I don't like at all on the right? yep. on the left. yep. but I know that demonizing people only makes enemies, not progress. i liked your thoughts on this film. i felt pretty much the same way walking out. just stunned to silence on the drive home with my wife and brother over how much the movie actually made me think about real life. i really didn't expect that. i expected cool, not thought provoking. it wasn't schindler's list, but it was more then just a summer super hero popcorn flick, that's for sure.
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I hear what you're saying and I agree with keeping Ledger's tone of keeping the Joker brutal. That's why I said Depp I think after seeing him in Sweeney Todd he would definitely keep the brutal. I seriously wouldn't want it like Nicholson's version. Depp is a great actor who I really think could pull it off.
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I've been letting this movie soak in for a few hours now to really form an opinion on the movie.
First, I keep reading people comparing this to other movies (Heat, Godfather II, The Empire Strikes Back, Spidey 2), and that doesn't do the movie justice. It's not better than these movies--it is its own movie. Just like these movies redefined what was good in the first, so did this movie. And I really don't like how respected reviewers feel they have to compare it to these movies. But enough of that. Just my feelings.
Overall, this movie was excellent. It was long but engaging; dark but inspiring; daunting and fresh. It will be a movie these reviewers will compare to another movie...:)
I say it was only a "good" superhero movie because I didn't really feel it wanted to be a superhero movie. The people in the movie felt so real it really didn't feel like a superhero movie. And this is a compliment in many ways. The problem is when the movie returns back to being a "superhero" movie, I found it hard to actually give it the slack it deserves for some of the implausable occurences. I will grant superhero movies a lot of slack. Too much for most people, I would bet. But the script felt like they wanted it to be an absolutely believable storyline but then needed to back its way out by relying on farfetched ideas.
One thing that irked me was the sonar in the end. Sonar? Really? That's what you got for me? And it was so far-fetched sonar. The sonar wasn't really plausible, even. And Batman is known for being a detective, so incorporate a better setup.
I have no problem suspending disbelief in the fact that the Joker set up this MASSIVE plot because of the movie's context. But sonar? The other thing was Dent's fall. Dent was great in the movie; Two-Face was not (and honestly, I cannot describe why at this moment...he didn't feel believable).
Anway, wonderful movie. Cannot wait to see it again! -
Yeah he was 'for it before he was against it'. Lucky thing for us we're not running a guy like McCain, who VOTES AGAINST HIS OWN FUCKING BILLS, MAN.McCain is older than Coca-Cola Classic.McCain is older than Skeletor.McCain is as old as the tree in my front lawn. Fuck, why don't you guys on the Right side of the aisle run fucking Cheney? Too scared? How's that for a fucking plan? He's old as fuck, and mean as a cougar with a fucking loose tooth. He'd fuck you all over nice and quick, and leave nothing for the vultures. Unless you're part of Old King George's 'base' of those upper 2 percenters, then you'd have tax cuts in a time of war...that's uh..NEVER FRICKING HAPPENED BECAUSE IT'S A DUMB FUCK IDEA.Sometimes, though, it's pretty funny to watch the Right scramble to parse some evil shit out of Obama's rhetoric. You guys seem a LIIIITTLE bit desperate...hee hee hee! And from now on, you should try to remember typing 'MR. PRESIDENT OBAMASSIAH'. Unless we have a nice bloodless coup, and the Blackwater Junta helps Old King George keep his kingdom.
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The Scarecrow scene was out of place but it did go well to show a few points, the other vigilantes that included the guy who later bumped into the window (his name was probably part of the viral citizens for batman). Also it was a reason to show batman hurt and when the action ramped up, that would have been out of place
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F*cking awesome. Really great. Can’t wait to see it again. Can’t believe they got away with a PG-13 rating. The Heath Ledger hype is warranted. Bittersweet, though, to so love Ledger’s performance, only to know we’ll never see more of it. Just leaves you thinking what other great performances he had up his sleeve. As much as I love Nicholson’s go at the Joker, this one was better. Not an overstatement to say it’s one of the great villain performances of all time. I can’t imagine anyone else who could have an entire theater laughing at a character while that character is blowing up a hospital. Hope to God they’ve got some DVD interviews of Ledger analyzing his performance. They’ve got to find some way to bring that Joker back, maybe in the fourth film. Can’t possibly think this early of who can fill those shoes. Michael Cain needs more to do in the next one. As big of a tease it was, I’m so glad they were (relatively) able to keep Two-Face’s image a secret before the release. I’m ready for the next one. What could they possibly do in the way of villains to top this outing? Script was good…the score was great. Amazing performances by all involved. Only complaint was those in the theater (unfortunately, they were with me) who laughed out loud every time Batman spoke. If ever there’s a time for suspension of disbelief, a movie where a man dressed as a bat fights crime is it. It’s not outrageous to think he’d disguise his voice when he’s a billionaire celebrity. As much as Nolan denies he’ll ever use Robin or the Penguin (I hope he changes his mind, at least with regard to the latter), I tend to doubt it. I think it’s just a matter of finding the right angle to work them into a script. Interesting that they never show (the young) Barbara Gordon’s face. Could a Batgirl be far behind? Again, maybe the fourth film? With their “realistic” take on this series, I wouldn’t want to count anything out. With the right script and the right story angles, I think anything is possible with this team. Looking forward to the next one. Will miss Heath Ledger and all his potential a great deal. Comic book characters and superhero films have traditionally been shunned by the Oscars (Al Pacino’s Big Boy Caprice in Dick Tracy is the only performance I can remember being nominated), but I think Ledger is a shoe-in for a nomination, and might even have a serious chance at winning this year. He certainly did go out with a bang. Thanks, Heath! You’re going to be missed, especially by the millions who will see this film this weekend.
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I love the lighting when Gordon went into the holding cell with Joker. All black and just a white face looking out of the darkness.And when he said he wasn't crazy, the way pronounced the T in not... noT.
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Both are excellent. Just like Nolan's and Heath's.
Stop comparing and enjoy them for what they both are. They serve totally different purposes, tones, and themes are at play. The worlds these movies are set in are so different.
Focus on how the writing, directing, acting, and so on work on those levels.
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"condescending bullshit"There is "bullshit" and there is "condescending bullshit". One of these is subjective. Since yours is commentary on what I wrote, I bucketize your post as such. For what this response is worth at least (which is admittedly equally subjective)."And I won't be the last to say that condescending bullshit, even wrapped up in nice little grammatically correct sentences is still....ah...condescending bullshit.Ahem."Okay, so, fuck your auntie in the ass too."Wiretapping AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZENS..." yada yada. Bunch of shit clipped for brevity.Did you not glean anything from what I wrote? Yes, I GET that. I do. I truly DO. I'm a Libertarian. I think it's sick. Read again what I wrote. Batman's actions in this flick made me think about and reconsider what the whole FISA crap is about. I'm THINKING. Isn't that what you want us "neocons" to do? I'm sure you're a smart guy. I'm sure you can see the area between black and grey (incidentally, the same area the movie was exploring).Everything you mention about the Joker is correct. As I mentioned, he is a force more than a character. We must contend with him in our daily lives. Like Al Queda. Yes, Tim McVeigh was an ass that we could not handle under own current moral standards. You are right. This film makes us question this angle, as did the scene with Joker and Batman. And yet, I must question youe other angle presented in that clip -- would you continue to torture the joker as batman did considering many lives that were at stake?"In the fucking ground upside down and pissed on by lunatics." Do you REALLY believe that our "progressive" movement would allow such a thing?
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how come after joker lights the money pile, there is not a sound heard from lau as he is burned alive?
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And the fake one is a douche. Cut the shit dude. Anyways, TDK was great. Burton's was a mainstream popcorn flick. Good movie, don't get me wrong. This one was a legit piece of film. Gordon-Levitt as Joker? Possibly but way too soon. I don't think there will be another Batman movie for at least 3 or 4 years. Everyone is going to need time to heal.
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I was thinking about that today when I remembered it, that Lau is a stoic motherfucker I guess.
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No conservative is happy with McCain. NO ONE.And for all the same reasons, after at least 10-years of undeniable evidence -- No conservative understands why any liberal could ever be unhappy with a President McCain as you are. The man has been a media darling for a reason, mostly due to the the fact that he has championed every liberal cause imaginable (I believe the media is left-forgivable if not left leaning).Everyone has a strategy for how they vote. Mine is quite simple. Regardless of who is running (and in my ultra-blue liberal state of Massachusetts), I often write in superhero aliases. Can't help but wonder how many times volunteers have scratched their heads wondering who Arthur Curry is.
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Usually when someone in immolated, the agent that is used to start the fire usually burns up the oxygen around the 'victim' and causes the vocal chords to burn when/if they inhale. Unless Lau took a big breath before the fire got to him he might not scream, then again I'm not sure if he was doused with gas.
If he was covered in gasoline he most likely would'nt make a sound, but if the flames had to catch up to him you might be on to something the critics should hold against this movie. -
I haven't had a film live up to the hype in so long I forgot how it felt. This should be shining example to studio execs what making adult themed films can do in this day and age. I hope they learn from this and Iron Man and don't chalk the success up to it being a comic book movie. Both movies presented flawed dark heroes and great story and better acting. I'm not very sad about Heath's death, but I also think knowing the actor that he was, he would have never come back and played Joker again. His integrity would have kept him from doing a repeat, unless Nolan made the character go in a different direction that would interest Heath. What I saw up on screen tonight was one of the finest performances I've ever seen and I don't think any actor will want to step into those shoes. Not even Depp. It's a shame because Batman w/o the Joker can work, but never as good as when they are together. What I love most right now is not knowing where they are going with the next film, if we are lucky enough to get another one from these principals. I hope they keep making Batman movies every 3-4 years. They've created a character and a landscape that will not grow stale under Nolan's hand. I'm not worried about who the next villain is because I know whatever they choose to do will be kick ass. We're spoiled by some of the ridiculous performances of the other villain's in movies and TV shows past and if Nolan has proven anything to us, it's that his version of the villain will be spot on and not clownish. While I don't want to see Riddler and Penguin, I know if he decides to ever go there, it will be amazing. I also got the sense that there might be a Batgirl in the future and as for no Robin, don't count out Gordon's son who they gave some serious time to. I wouldn't be surprised if the next movie involved Gordon's death and Batman becoming a surrogate of sorts to his children...especially since the son knows Batman is playing the villain for noble reasons. Wonderful brilliant film. I can't wait to see it again.
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You obviously can compare all you want. And I didn't say you can't like one over the other, but when you compare them remember the universe they are set in. Basically, swap out the acting jobs, do they work? Both would be out of place.
There have been too many comic books redos, reinvisions, retellings, whatever of the Batman storyline that I really don't have a strong opinion what the Joker would "actually" do.
I believe Jack's Joker was all that you said: crazy, sadistic, impatient, cruel. He killed a lot of people in the movie, even Bob, his right hand man, for no good reason. Anyway, we love this new one because it feels darker and more intense. But in all actuality it was just a different dark and intensity. Which I believe is due to the way the movie was shot. It was set in a more realistic world. So Heath's Joker feels that more real.
And I really was saying it to those who are now saying Jack's portrayal was completely inferior. You can prefer, compare, or judge all you like.
For the record, I by NO means am trying to downplay Ledger's job. I loved every second of him on screen. I really did not see Heath Ledger on the movie screen--I saw The Joker. -
first ive seen this 3 times now and have been blown away every damn time. it is perfect in everyway. having said that i must say i found the scarecrows cameo to be really distracting, he felt really out of place in the scene, and i was totally expecting his face to be fucked up, i mean im no expert but a tazer to the face would do some damage right? other minor fault was i felt that eric roberts totally shouldnt have been walking around in his last two scenes...his fucking legs broke no question, he does have a cane and a minor limp..but come on what does it take to ask the propmaster for a wheelchair. everything else was spot on. i love the fact that spawn gets killed by the joker loved it. its really impossible to list off all the things i loved about this. joseph gordon levitt would be an acceptable replacement for joker but i dont want to see that happen. i seriously think they have made something so pefrect they cant top it, and well if they do..jesus. good review harry.
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Sweeny Todd ..Secret garden..I think if he holed up in his flat for a month he could probably take over the reigns...In a perfect world I would have loved to see Ledger do a thousand more joker scenes...He was Spot on...read the Killing Joke..or...Death in the Family...The graphic novel Joker was hardcore..but Heath brought it to a level that was unseen when I heard of the choice two years ago I was kinda pissed..but now it makes perfect sense...he was perfect... It really gave me the creeps...the scene with Dent in the hospital was Brilliant!!!!and afterwards as Joker is Flopping down the street..(preparing to blow the building)... in the nurses outfit...his little mannerisms and shrugs were truly John Wayne Gacey inspired...It was like he was walking out of the building listening to something that we couldn't hear..maybe an Ice Cream truck jingle...pop goes the weasel...Depp would be my first choice...next maybe...don't walk away now..Will Farrell..yeah he is a silly little bitch..but he is a big bloke..and he does have allot of acting talent.. and I would at least give him a screen test...
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He did not die in the end, they faked his death to make Dent a martyr for the city of Gotham. Two Face is locked in the mental facility.
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Went to the 12 am screening and I have to say its been so long where ive wanted to pay to go see the same film agian in a theater. It was just that good there is so much to touch on but I have to say that Aaron Eckhart did a fanstic job. its a shame that it will be always overshadowed by Heath's Joker. Thats why they SHOULD have Two-Face back. You really liked Dent. Even when you knew what would happen to him you didnt want it to happen. And when he changed he was great and Tommy Lee Jones should just be ashamed for the Joker lite perfomance he phoned in as Two Face. When Two Face would snap and vent I jumped in my seat as if he was yelling at me. You really understood why he was pissed. Little details in his performance were great like the way he wiped his chin after he took a drink. Heh. That side of his face must dribble. The SFX of the eye creeped me out. When it got wild when he was pissed or focused on a guy. Brrr. Eckhart knocked it out of the park. Too Bad Heath knocked it out of two parks. Oh well. He should totaly be in the next one to make up for it. Oh and GREGGERS yeah that scene broke my heart too. That poor guy was just a lovable lug who wanted to play batman. Who dosent? And Joker being the bully without mercy laughing at his fear and tears. Wow. I think the kid in all of us cringed and felt at that.
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Batman: "Is that the Joker?"
Gordon: "Yeah. That's him."
Batman: "He really let himself go."
Gordon: "Yeah. Say what you will about Arkham, but they do have a great buffet." -
Joker will NOT be in the next installment if Nolan is involved, out of respect to Ledger, that's a no brainer.
They're gotta top the ante of the Joker in this one, I cant think of a suitable villain, MAYBE Catwoman, and one major villain. -
yeah I said it.
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"Yeah he was 'for it before he was against it'. Lucky thing for us we're not running a guy like McCain, who VOTES AGAINST HIS OWN FUCKING BILLS, MAN."As opposed to voting "present"...?"McCain is older than Coca-Cola Classic.""McCain is older than Skeletor.""McCain is as old as the tree in my front lawn."I hate McCain. He is Bob Dole. Next?"Fuck, why don't you guys on the Right side of the aisle run fucking Cheney? Too scared? How's that for a fucking plan? He's old as fuck, and mean as a cougar with a fucking loose tooth. He'd fuck you all over nice and quick, and leave nothing for the vultures. Unless you're part of Old King George's 'base' of those upper 2 percenters, then you'd have tax cuts in a time of war...that's uh..NEVER FRICKING HAPPENED BECAUSE IT'S A DUMB FUCK IDEA."Uhm, yeah. Okay. Let's take your idea and run Cheney!"Sometimes, though, it's pretty funny to watch the Right scramble to parse some evil shit out of Obama's rhetoric. You guys seem a LIIIITTLE bit desperate...hee hee hee! And from now on, you should try to remember typing 'MR. PRESIDENT OBAMASSIAH'. Unless we have a nice bloodless coup, and the Blackwater Junta helps Old King George keep his kingdom."Okay, let me practise...... heee!heee!heee!HEEEEE!!one!!!heee!heee!HEEEEE!!ELEVEN!!!
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1. Bruce telling Alfred that Rachel said that she'll wait for him. The little boy that died all those years ago came back to life for just a moment there in that scene. 2. Harvey screaming when Batman opens the door. Powerful scenes both completely affecting because of the performances of Christian and Aaron.
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look nolan handled it brilliant, it is both a fitting funeral and an easy way to cover up him not being dead depending on what they choose to do with the character. but i think nolan told the dent/two face story he wanted to tell, so i doubt we see him back in a nolan batman movie. in addition come on its not like they could have him be the main villian in the next one...they wouldnt be able to use him in the marketing at all, his look is way to disgusting to display to kids and such.
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Jul 19, 2008 1:06:37 AM CDT
Catwoman isn't the only feminine possibility for the next film..
by kaylum
This is my first time posting to AICN, so please be kind! I wholeheartedly agree that it would be a crime for Nolan to recast the Joker, but what about a certain Joker groupie who became inspired by him and tries to follow in his footsteps...anyone see where I'm going with this? If someone's mentioned Harley Quinn already, I haven't had time to do more than skim all the TDK talkbacks. It probably won't happen, but just for fun, what actress do you think could portray the feminine equivalent of Ledger's madness? I'd say Juliet Lewis if she were younger.
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Oldman pretty much said that was the setup for the next one.Mister Reese already knows who Batman is and was/is willing to divulge that info, even if he had to piss off a sociopathic-billionaire who fights crime with really cool gadgets. I'm just wondering what will happen with that info, since Reese owes Wayne for his life being saved.
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Best Picture
Best Screenplay
Best Sound
Best Sound Editing
Best Supporting Actor..Heath and Aaron
Best Cinematography
Best ass kicking at the MTV awards!!
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thats a terrible idea. worst idea ive read in a while. Depps a way better choice... but i doubt anyone will ever compare to Heath Ledger... and why should they, he was perfect.
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as soon as i got home i re-red the graphic novels..death in the family..killing joke...no mans land...they did it!!!!Nolan and Ledger got the joker as exactly to perfect according to NASA specs..truly Brilliant!!
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He was great dont get me wrong..loved it for many years...but looking at it now..He was just doing Ceasar Ramero ..but times ten
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I wasn't blown away. Heath was good. Aaron was good. Everybody else was relegated to the background, including Batman. It dragged a bit, and it was a little convoluted. It is worth watching, but I don't think it lives up to some of the fanboy "BEST EVAR!!!" hype.
Sorry, but "dark" doesn't equal "great". It just makes it a more realistic Batman movie, which has benefits AND drawbacks. -
Common! He is like Helen Hunt at the 90's, when she did all the female roles destined to actresses between 30 and 50. I like him but... he should gives us a chance to miss him.
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Harley Quinn if she was built better..Harley is a pretty tough bitch..Lewis is too skinny
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I have not read that comic. I will be honest---I never liked the Batman comics. Not flaming or saying they were bad. I read the ones my friends had from time to time, but that was a long time ago so my knowledge on the Batman universe is very flawed.
So that's probably why we differ.
I guess I (unfortunately) disconnected the comics from the live action. For better or worse.
I can see why you feel that way for Heath's Joker. -
Harley Quinn???
Shes got the build...and a fucked up voice....not the greatest actress in the world though -
...in the scene where Joker crashes his fundraiser for Dent, it seems he had time to apply black make-up around his eyes. This is the same black make-up every Batman since Michael Keaton seems to find necissary. This isn't a complaint,just something my kids twenty years from now, will point out and laugh.
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Charlize Theron.
Beautiful and one of the best actors out there. -
incredible performance by ledger, definitely oscar worthy. Did anyone here think how cheesy the first courtroom scene of the flick with Harvey? Just felt kinda cheap. THis is definitely one of the top ten flicks of the year. Favorite scene? Sticking his head out of the cruiser's window. U know why? Cuz of the events that preceded that scene (losing batman's cool, blowing up the department, the "choice", and his release). Like he's wallowing in his victory. Fucking.Insane
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Tilly's not a bad choice, but c'mon, no other actress would be perfect for the role than Brittany Murphy. She's got the voice, bod and attitude.
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I don't give a shit about your opinion, if you can't appreciate and enjoy a film like "Dark Knight", you don't deserve to watch movies.
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That scene alone is worth an Oscar Nod...Hell the gave an Oscar to Brando for 12 minutes of Superman..that scene of Ledger hanging out out of the window...enjoying the moment brought a tear to my eye..really
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though... she may be a little too old. Elisabeth Banks looks the part, but I don't know if she can hold her own in this group of actors. She's in W as Mrs. Bush...maybe she's got something we haven't seen.
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Jul 19, 2008 1:35:18 AM CDT
Like I said before and others are pointing out.
by the guy who slept through everything.
Eckhart deserves Oscar consideration, he'll just get overshadowed by ledger though.
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Ledger was off the charts.
He was crazy good. Absolutely no doubt about it. So good that they better not recast just because Ledger was that good.
And I think we are agreeing.
I will sneak this in there to beat this dead horse a final time. The distinction I am making is that the reason for the acting is due to these movies being different! The environment, themes, and stories are different.
Alright. That's enough from me.
And I will try to give that a read.
Thanks -
To whoever said that, your brain is filled with seamen and jellybeans.
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Jul 19, 2008 1:36:41 AM CDT
Catwoman for "Dark Knight Returns", or "The Caped Crusader", or
by playkins
It would make sense.... Batman's an outlaw, Selina Kyle comes to town looking for thrills. Someone hires Bane (done right, of course) to come to town to hunt Batman. Could be fun.
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Forgot about her..she got the build..the voice..and not to shabby on the acting scale...definitely has got the eyes....being a masked role..you really need a profound look to the eyes..since that is really your only expressionable (not a word I Know)trait...Ledgers EYES were magic..all the ranges of emotion without saying a word
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I don't know...
Elizabeth Banks is a good one too.
I have enjoyed her in her roles, and she's in a bunch of new movies (like W, you mentioned) -
i just sit here at my desk thinking 'why? why did they do this spectacular in this movie? both Heath and Aaron... they both gave performances of a lifetime and it's in a super hero movie...' i like Batman, but, as an artist... what inspired them to do this? that is what i can't figure out. i don't know if everyone gets what happened in this film with these performances... the complexity was astounding... the control while appearing to be out of control... it wasn't like they just threw themselves into a feeling and went with it... this was masterful work... i'm just so suprised it happened in this film. Heath and Eckhart both went far above and beyond what this film needed. Maybe it was just the right fit at the right time for those two.
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I loved this movie. I really really did. I would watch it 100 times and still not get sick of it. But come on guys, there are some pretty obvious problems with the movie. The third act gets so convoluted because there are 5 billion things going on and its crammed into about 20 minutes. That whole "Clowns are the hostages" sequence with that crazy sonar and the last scene with Two-Face just did not get the screen time it deserved. I really wish they released a longer cut of this movie instead of forcing it into 2 1/2 hours. Because I am sure all the casual movie-goer idiots they were were trying to appease would have loved every god damn second of it.
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(1) i didn't buy maggie as rachel dawes. she looked 40 and i didn't FEEL anything when she died. i'm not a katie holmes fan, but she was "bruce's childhood friend" to me in this film series. (2) i didn't want to buy the techno deux ex machina cell phone device. i would have rather seen batman pull some more detective stuff to find joker. otherwise i loved the film, and will definitely see it again and probably add it to my dvd collection. cheers!
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Film has changed..its just not okay anymore to put out mediocre performances..unless your doing a spoof film..X-men..Spiderman..Ironman..Hulk..they
just keep getting better and better..actors might be seeing that this is a legitimate franchise and I think they are really enjoying what they are doing...really giving a shit..they see solid scripts..solid co-workers..I thing they are actually trying to do there best for our benefit..after all who pays there outrageous salaries..we do..I think they might be actually trying to give us what we deserve... -
My two cents..i think they might have included the Sonar lenses..just to give a little homage to the Comic Book look of the white distant eyes that Grace ever drawn picture of the Batman..when he first turned them on i squealed with glee and applauded
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I think that maybe Aaron was out to prove what he's got acting next to this stellar cast. This was his best performance to date. Heath on the other hand... I get the feeling that we just witnessed a work of genius... I honestly don't know what the fuck Harry thinks is going to best this performance this year.
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...this movie was intense.
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What are you smoking Harry? Cause I really need some of that shit if it's making you think like that.
Anway, great review, but, I have one disagreement. I always thought of Harvey being the polar opposite of the Joker, and here's why.
Joker has no rules, he is unpredictable, anarchy, all that lawless stuff. Batman isn't that because he works outside, and sometimes breaks the law. I see Harvey as the opposite because he's working within the law. He believes in order and he PRACTICES that order.
Anyway, great review, great flick. Can't see what they'll do for a third, which is happening. Hopefully something cool like Hugo Strange, or some real life villian. No Croc, no mutants, and no Penguin!! -
i do agree that the sonar lenses were a bad ass homage to comic eyes batman. i just didn't dig how we got there. but just so i'm not a major poser/whiner, i got fucking CHILLS when batman escaped the hong kong building with the plane AND when the bat pod comes flying out of the wrecked-to-shit batmobile... all escape-pod-like! freakin classic stuff.
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When the Joker walked on, I FUCKING CAME in my shorts, and as the movie progressed, I CAME and CAME again, and towards the end, I was ejaculating BLACK, ARTERIAL BLOOD, but I didn't care...not at ALL...I was SO FUCKING HAPPY!!!
Actually, I haven't seen it yet. Hope it's good. -
this might not be a "SUPERHERO" movie.....it is rubbing elbows with Ben Hur...North by Northwest...I daRE not say it "Citizen Kane"...this is great film nonetheless...just because the main character is in a re-enforced Nomex bi-weave advanced infantry battle suit..does not make it any different than it actually is...a Great Film....
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Joseph Gordon-Levitt (sp?) is hands down the best choice. He's a phenomenal actor, and it doesn't hurt that he's the spitting image of Ledger either. Javier Bardem, Harry? Worst idea in the history of bad ideas. Almost as bad as Johnny Depp. People keep saying that they want Depp because of his work as other characters. Do you not get it? The Joker should be beyond the pale of other psychopathic villians. This Joker certainly was. So to say Depp should be the Joker "because he was great as Sweeney Todd" is just dumb. The Joker should be cast in the spirit that Ledger was cast. And I recall just about everyone in TB bitching about Ledger because, really, he was an unexpected choice for the Joker. Now some of those same people are praising (understandably so) his performance and saying that only Depp can take over. I say no. In the spirit of Ledger's casting, do the unexpected. No Paul Bettany, no Chrispin Glover, no Johnny Depp, no one that looks like the Joker or has played Joker-esque roles. And, as much as I like him, no high profile actors like Daniel Day-Lewis. I don't want a transitional Joker like Benedict XVI is the transitional Pope. That's what someone like Depp would be, aka "the next best choice". Do the unexpected and you will get unexpectedly good results. Just like Ledger's Joker. Whew!
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No diplomatic immunity...Bats went in ..passed all the red tape..grabbed the bastard and took him back to Gotham....no questions asked..no court hearings...this is the Batman I have read bout in the comics that line my living room
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aaron eckhart was fabulous b/c he made you love harvey dent and dread his inevitable fate. his character was testimony to what was sooo freakin stupid about anakin in the SW prequel trilogy. ya gotta love the guy to care when he goes bad.
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He could do it but not one want the JOKER to have an accent. I would love to see the Joker again on the Silver Screen but like Harry said - who would have the ball to do that?
!THIS FILM WAS PERFECT! -
Kevin Bacon played the Joker? I was just thinking this for some reason...
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so batman's again on the outs with gotham. but WHO could possibly top as a villain next time around in this established universe. i'm stumped. we can only hope the creative minds aren't. thoughts?
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TO REPLACE HEATH EVER IN THE NOLAN SERIES!
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that there were certain extra, deleted scenes of Heath that took place after we last saw him dangling from the building, or at least can be edited to seem like they took place after. It seems to me that after his death, Nolan would be wise to edit the film so that they can save some stuff for the sequel. That is of course if that is ethical/ legal. I mean they did but Brando in Superman Returns, so I assume it's possible. Hmmm...
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I do agree..Depp would be the easy choice....but not the right one...Heath put me off two years ago..i didn't understand the choice..come one Broke back ....knights tale...please....but now it makes more sense than two plus two....we do need a left fielder to come out and take over...too soon you might say..nay says me...Joker and Batman go together like ham and and eggs...Woodward and Burnstien...They need a joker to take place in Gotham...maybe not a major plyer...but at least a cameo in Arkaham
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realistically..i think they could pull it off...introduce John Paul Valley...Break the Batman....of course no Batman and Robin Bane....but a rwal hardcore mexican prisoner subjected to Venom experiments
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Boy, where do you go from here? Part of me wishes they end the series here. Godfather, Superman, Back to the Future, Spiderman, Shrek, Rocky (except for the last one), have peaked (or were at least a worthy follow up to it's predecessor) with the second installment. This is the greatest superhero film ever made. Greatness is such a rarity that greatness duplicated is so much rarer. If the same themes (good vs evil, anarchy) are repeated, people will view this as unfresh, samo-samo, riding the coat tails of TDK, blah blah. And if Nolan takes it in an entirely new direction, new aesthetic qualities, different themes, he'll be hanged as being a traitor to his own vision. Nolan, end the series while it, and you, are on top.
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as a three year old child
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but i could see a rival vigilante... a la john paul valley/azrael/knight fall bats. after the hints at more vigilantism... what if there was an equally effective but more unethical guy who shows up.
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http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001758/
theres your Penguin. no makeup required. -
Justice League villain...Lex Luthor
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It makes the most sense. The first film established Bruce's motives and origin as Batman, the second established the power of Batman as a symbol, and the third would rightly take things down a notch by focusing on the inner workings of Batman's mind and how he deals with all the stuff in TDK. Rachel is dead. The Joker has turned everything upside down. Two Face may or may not be dead too but the Harvey Dent: Great White Hope of Gotham is toast. Throw in Lucious Fox resigning and the cops having to be openly hostile to Batman and you get a version of the character who is more alone and more conflicted over what he's doing than ever. I see the third film as being less James Bond, more Sherlock Holmes, and even grittier than either of the preceeding ones and that could work very well. Catwoman would also make the most sense as a love interest/villain for a lonelier, more cynical Batman. They need a real madman type of villain to wreck Gotham again, though. I don't see The Penguin, Bane, or even The Riddler doing that. This one is so good it'll be damn near impossible for the third to live up, but they've got some interesting ground to cover if they turn the focus of the film back on Batman's inner psyche. No villain can top Ledger's Joker, though.
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no matter what the third film will be...it shall be Heavenly....as long as they keep the same roster...they could'nt fuk it it up could they????
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theron is too blonde...ricci is to short....Halley barrey sux....with a big SUX....
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i alreayd said the hong kong shit and the bat pod reveal were my favorite stuff. i ALSO loved when bruce wayne took down joker's thug and took apart that shotgun of his... what else did you freakin geek out about?
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Until just now I didn't realize just how much of a bind they're in for a villain for the third installment. No one can top the fire, madness, and chemistry that Ledger brought to this one. It would be foolish to recast the Joker as a primary villain already, but Bane, Riddler, Penguin, Killer Croc, etc just don't have the same heft to them. Catwoman makes sense if they do the more psychological story I forsee, but we've already watched Nolan terrorize Gotham good in both the first films. How are you going to escalate it again after this!?!?
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she gots the brains
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Nolan shot this movie with the intent of coming back. He loves Batman because he is so controversial; he allows him to confront the darkest issues our society faces without them appearing to be real, e.g. Joker's terrorism and Batman's response. Also, the ending gives foresight that both the Nolan brothers have an idea of where they want to take the franchise without having to hit us over the skull like last time.
With Heath gone and leaving an incredibly large pair of Joker shoes for someone to fill, Harvey Two-Face's potentially short run of things, unknown whether or not Ras Al-Ghul survived his little travel setback on the Gotham monorail, and the vagueness of Scarecrow's moral integrity, what villains are left to crawl out and finish off what is left of Batman after this film?
The easy answers to that question would be the typical: Catwoman, Penguin, the Riddler, Poison Ivy, Bane, Mr. Freeze, and the more recent addition to the Batman universe, Hush.
Personally, Poison Ivy has always been too cartoonish, Bane too much of an out of this world freak, Mr. Freeze was absolutely ruined by Ah-nuld, and Hush is far too much like the TDK Joker in the manipulation department. So that leaves Catwoman, The Penguin, and The Riddler. Catwoman could be interesting simply because she could be used in a way that really pushes the femme fatale to new heights. I liked the rumor of the Penguin being a global arms dealer, which could be useful, but who is he selling his weapons to? And the Riddler would need to be constructed in a manner that I'm not exactly sure that at this late hour I could even begin to hypothesize.
But while those make sense, the Nolans gave us a big hint at who the real villain is now in those closing moments of the film.
With Harvey laying there seemingly dead, guilty of falling into the hands of the Joker, Batman finally shoulders the weight of everything that he has done and taken the blame for going outside the law. He is the criminal the city must chase and blame.
Batman's only enemy now is Batman.
Gordon was trying to find a way to tell his boy this. Lucius hinted at it with the "too much power for one man" speech.
While Batman lived only by one code he allowed for himself, he watched everything that gave him chance of being a normal billionaire be put to rest, and in turn killing all the hope that one day Gotham won't need Batman.
I'd expect the next movie being a battle between Gotham City against Batman against Bruce Wayne. You'll see the city try the capture the world's greatest detective while his secret identity desperately tries to have some sort of control over the alter-ego of Batman.
The events of this movie fucked with Batman's head to the point and I can't really see there being someone more of a threat to him other than himself.
Hopefully the opening weekend Box Office returns will make it absolutely necessary for Warner Brothers to aggressively pursue a contract with Christopher Nolan to helm the future of this franchise, and if that isn't the case, may they do themselves the favor of not revisiting it. -
dismantle was SWEEET!!!
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I was disappointed. I SOOO wanted to love this movie. Not only was it NOT the greatest superhero movie ever made, it wasn't even the greatest superhero movie ever made by Nolan. It dragged at parts, it seemed too long, parts were predictable and unnecessary. Joker even seemed like he was never in the moment. I got a sense that he was like an employee at work waiting for the end of his shift to go to that kick ass party. The only time he didn't seem like he was just going through the motions was *SPOILER* when he was falling to what he assumed would be his death. That was the only time he seemed to be free and enjoying himself. The rest felt like laborious means to an end. Don't get me wrong, there were a few enjoyable moments but for the most part, the movie was like Sisyfus and the boulder. There was too much of the people of Gotham city. It made me lose sight of the focus of the film which SHOULD have been the main characters, but eventually they all just seemed to blend in. The scene on the Ferry went way too long and didn't build tension, it was just boring. *SPOILER* when they spotted the hostages and the clowns and mentioned that it was unusual that they were so out in the open, did anyone NOT know that the clowns were the hostages?! And the whole bit where Bats fights the SWAT team...BORING! Bottom line, the movie was just ok.
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you may have to be my brother from another mother! we have totally geeked out about the same stuff!
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Ras Al-Gul is hundreds of years old...he is def not done
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I have spent 175.00 on a stupid Jim Lee 608 Poster on E-Bay
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than i like to admit
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i bought the quesada cover illustrated knightfalls conclusion, signed by quesada, off the HOME SHOPPING NETWORK. we are officially geek foes/friends.
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hes holding him aver the 3 or 4 story fall...roberts says..(sic) are you tryin to scare me..this height won't kill mee...Bats says "I'm counting on it" and drops him....shins shatter..great shit
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Damn You Michael Bay
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hit mee haRD...I DONT KNOW WHAT IT WAS ...i watched all the Burton films over and over....even enjoyed Clooney..cause it was Batman....I have read and re-read all the graphic novels ..i got all the posters...and I aM 35..im too old for this kinda of obsession..but no...I love the idea that if i was rich enough..and motivated enough i could go out and fight the greatest criminals on Earth with just my perseverance...that could be anyone you know...no superspeed needed
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I've always thought the Penguin would make a good villian in the Nolan universe. As a mobster perhaps trying to re-organize organized crime in Gotham, especially after Batman/Dent/Gordon and Joker so thoroughly f'd things up for the mob. I think Philip Seymour Hoffman would make a great Penguin. He could play him in contrast to Batman's more theatrical villians, with a scary coolness masking his true inner psycho. I could see him being a pretty unpredictable character that way. Of course he would be a diabolical genius, but one that thrives on order. And if they brought back the Joker, I'd be drooling waiting for a face-off between those two vastly different personas. And as for a love interest? I don't know. I kind of dig Batman as the anti-Bond. He doesn't need a new squeeze in every film. Batman is a loaner, and that's never been more true than after the events of TDK. I say keep it that way. If anything, don't avail him to the hope for a normal life until the end of a dark and punishing franchise.
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with his intelligence and toys he is basically the most dangerous man in the DC universe. and yes, despite the retcon hate, i still love batman and batman returns.
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could be pengie...maybe too old
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I think Nolan could pull of Catwoman, too
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that being said... think about the future. so the Penguin could be a arms dealer, as others have pointed out. he's just a short ugly aristocrat with a thing for umbrellas and old school eye-wear/top-hats. he is also completely sane. ok, so that is an interesting choice. how about this one....
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worm tail in harry potterverse and beadle in sweeney todd. make it happen.
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Reading alot into this but I go with catwoman and riddler. Catwoman for the cat line and riddler because of Reeses name. Mister Reese = mysteries or enigma. I just don't see Joshua Harto carrying the villian role. They can't beat the joker so they might have to really change directions for the next one. I don't envy Nolan, he might really want to stop with this one. You can't beat perfection.
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but i just don't see him as being compelling as villain. the joker/batman distinction was so strong in this last film... that i just don't see it working. it seems shoe-horned. like i said before, the rest of the rogue's gallery just doesn't seem to work either. how do you see the penguin really working into the deep natured villainy that we just witnessed in dark knight?
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What about Angelina Jolie?
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bat-mite, played by warwick davis. nuff said.
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They would focus on Oswald Cobblepot, the legitimate and wealthy businessman who has a hand in the underworld's darkness. That would ground it in reality. Philip Seymour Hoffman??
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The penguin would be great but I would want to see the Iceberg lounge/mob boss version. Throw in the black mask and you have a pretty good gang war between the two of them. (and I would love james gandolfini to play him).
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but watching this last film(and BB)...as I drive by the homeless,with cardboard markered signs..I wish I could help them...i wish I could make a difference...instead of handing the4m a few buck now and then..I wish I could go out and really make difference...Batman goes out night after night and rights the wrongs....foils massive supervillian plots but also ..maybe gives a little broke ass kid his night vision goggles so he could have some clout with his school yard chums....hes not Superman(never really liked him cause he had no real rivals)...Bats is a Posterboy of whaT WE can do if we get off our asses...sure i wanna help the destitute ..but not that EARLY....i gotta go to work..and do my 8 hours...he never gives up....never surrenders(sorry GALAXY QUEST)....I know he is a fictional character...but i really would like if someone like hime would step up.....Bill Gates...with his Trillions ...hasnt done a goddamn thing...Oprah..aside from donating to the NAACP...is bunk....we have no real heroes to look up to....so i Surround myself with fictitious ones..and pay my cable and rent an hope someone (in real Life)will inspire me to give more than i can afford...someone to inspire me to make a difference
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Great movie too, by far the best Bond movie with an under-rated Bond. Anyway cannieeeee wait for this Batflick - IMAX ALL THE WAY.
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Perfect Penguin!!!!
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Which fucking sucks, guys.
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Superb Choice
hope the Plants are monitering 'cause these are intelligent choices
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Damn...I've been lurking on this site for nearly ten years and have resisted the urge to post — until now.
When I found out that Heath Ledger was cast as the Joker (on this site, actually), I was with most people: WTF!? I had a lot of faith in Nolan though, so I thought...shit, he must know something the rest of us don't.
Did he ever.
Now, almost universal praise for Ledger's performance. I was a huge fan of Nicholson's Joker — memorized every line of dialog and used to impersonate him all the time. That same summer, I got a copy of The Dark Knight Returns and became a Batman fanatic, with the Joker always my favorite villian.
But, yes, Jack's Joker was Jack...fun and enjoyable, but Ledger's Joker was...the Joker. Just phenomenal...frightening, funny, unpredictable. Spot on.
Thanks Nolan and thanks Heath. That was an awesome ride. -
So, let me get this straight; Harry gushes arcing jets of semen over tripe like Hellboy 2, like he's had a religious experience - hyperbole spews from his mouth in a nonstop flow. Yet, when it comes to TDK night - a film which is being (almost) universally acclaimed, which normally reserved writers on this site hail as a triumph - Harry gives us a bland, lukewarm review which essentially says, "It's good but it's not all that.."?!
WTF?! Did Nolan not allow Harry to blow him or summat?! -
The Riddler's criminal modus operandi is so deeply ingrained into his personality that he is virtually powerless to stop himself from acting it out. He cannot simply kill his opponents when he has the upper hand; he has to put them in a deathtrap to see if he can devise a life and death intellectual challenge that the hero cannot solve and escape. However, unlike many of Batman's themed enemies, Riddler's compulsion is quite flexible, allowing him to commit any crime as long as he can describe it in a riddle or puzzle. So, in keeping with Nolan's love for spinning mysteries,(memento, prestige) why not have the Riddler played as a Jigsaw type killer who is obsessed with batman. however, rather than jigsaw's "torture yourself to survive" methods... his victims need to solve a puzzle to escape their doom. much the same way as how The Joker tries to create chaos by making people choose, The Riddler leaves clues to prove his superior intellect, and to punish those who he feels are unworthy to challenge it. i can see a lot of twists and turns in this type of story... or it could end up being Die Hard With a Vengeance (with Batman instead of Bruce Willis) you may not even need a physical representation of the villain until the end of the movie, when you find out it was The Joker all along. doesn't that just sound NOLANish to you? its got to be better than Jim Carrey's "figure out my name" riddle and "who do you save" riddle from Batman Forever. YAWN.
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dont take the easy way out and download it...it needs to be seen the first time with an audience on a 80 foot screen~!!!!
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You're the type of person that says Godfather was boring, or Casablanca dragged. I want to take each of your so called points and destroy them, but I couldn't find one that was remotely interesting. It's like arguing with someone who hated Tom Saywer, or thinks the shark in Jaws was just too fake. You're obviously not in the film industry. I am, and we are all in awe of The Dark Knight. You're a talentless, uneducated fool. And I usually put up with naysayers. But I have a friend who hates Citizen Kane. We're almost not friends for that very reason.. It's near inexcusable. Go rent some classics. Or get a brain.
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You're "almost not friends" because the bloke hates Citizen Kane?! I'm suprised you have ANY friends...
"You're not in the film industry. I am." - you work in a DVD Rental shop, yes?
I'm sorry; do you have to be "in the industry" before you can appreciate/dislike a film properly?
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Jul 19, 2008 3:44:47 AM CDT
If Ratner had directed and it was exactly the same, people would
by the founder
about Dent/TwoFace reworking. I enjoyed TDK, it was a solid film. Not very Batman like. Not sure i agree with trying to make it to realistic, it is after all a superhero/comic film. Even with some of the faults i found with TDK it still a good film. Ledger was excellant as Joker. He really played the hell out of the part.
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Jul 19, 2008 3:44:47 AM CDT
Yeah I seriously don't understand the hate for this film
by the guy who slept through everything.
How can you hate something like this, and fucking post here!?! That hurts my brain, and you're probably the same people who loved INCREDIBLE HULK.
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Please do not sell hellboy short..i have free-read all the Hellboy comics in my local Comic Shop for the last 15 years...never bought them them ..just read them...its a damn fine adaptation....just a little bit different than mostof the comics
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imagine batman going from one crime scene to the next, following clues left by the riddler, only to find another victim who couldn't solve a puzzle... then it gets personal... Alfred? Lucius? Gordon? and at every turn, a trap... a bomb, some goons, a bus that cant reduce speed or it will blow up? it is WAY too fucking early in the morning... fucking loved TDK
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Please do not sell hellboy short..i have free-read all the Hellboy comics in my local Comic Shop for the last 15 years...never bought them them ..just read them...its a damn fine adaptation....just a little bit different than mostof the comics
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Not a GREAT movie so fuck your hyperbole. It was a little slow and things happened just for the sake of happening ala Hong Kong. Heath's Joker defined the character but for what? He was only on screen for like half an hour and now we'll never see the like again.
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for all your film wisdom and knowledge (not to mention your desire to break friendships over film tastes) you come across as a jerk. dark knight was good but there's absolutely no reason to condemn others' opinions over its value.
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I'm glad you enjoyed Hellboy; the comics and the films - I just felt it could be done a lot better, and was a wasted premise.
My main point is, Harry seems to be going deliberately against the grain with this review, or is narked about something, so is taking it out on the film. This is a man who nearly orgasmed to death watching TPM, remember... -
You point exactly.."HUsh" is a fine example of The Riddler...(SPOILER) he is the mastermind at he end...if done with Couth I think the Riddler can be done with believability and respect ..no Jim Carrey pl4eae...he is a genius but not in that sense.
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if anyone cares enough about this portrayal or the character, i highly advise to read the book because i thought he was the only character the filmmakers botched and underdelivered for the screen. The one in the book had no ridiculous haircut (because he doesn't want to stick out), he had eyes like blue flickers, and seemed like an ex special-ops type. Bardem's Chigurh is described by many as a creepy psycho with an occasional facial tic or smile who slowly walks like a mannequin. The one in the book was never creepy, he showed absolutely zero emotion, no smiles whatsoever, his face remained blank and his eyes like wet stones, and he walked like any regular preson, but he also moved like a lightning fast panther when it was needed. And when he was shot in the leg he did not run away like the way they pussied him out in the movie, instead some hitmen drove up and he took them all on calmly and with precision even with his bleeding leg while the good guy ran off and it was because of this distraction why he was saved. Not only that but whole conversations were taken out, he talks a lot more with the rival bounty hunter before killing him, very relaxed with his chin on his hand even. There's a whole part where he dressed in suit and tie and personally delivers the money to its rightful owner, that's right SUIT and TIE. Can you imagine Bardem's zombie-Chigurh doing that? I just had to say this because the book version is one of the mose unique characters ever writen, and is unfortunately overshadowed now by the movie and its numerous awards.
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that was the Definitive portrayal of the Joker. one of the greatest villains in film history....
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I am in the FILM industry..the most important part..I purchase tickets...WE are educated..WE are one voice..we are the peapole that either makes or brakes a move--...for christs sakes..lokk what Harry did to Godzilla...he completlely shut down that movie...he had a positive review the first run but panned it the next.....we are the industry...it doesn't matter how many million you throw at a FILM ...IF WE DON'T LIKE IT IT WILL TANK....by the way I thought Godzilla was an awesome Popcorn Flicki...(fuck you Harry)you can produce as many movies as you like...but if WE dont like them you will be holdind a markered cardboard sign on the side of the road.......Do you want fries with that?
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As a Brit and a HUGE Batman fan (and I don't mean the 60's TV series although it was cute when I was a kid ,nor the Burton films) I have to say that I am proud of what my countrymen have achieved with the character.The movie opens here next week in theaters and IMAX and I can't wait. Well done Chris Nolan and Co - due respect.
Now you guys over the pond -just hand us over the Superman franchise again so we can put that up where it belongs. -
were so overcome by hype and stupidity that they were giggling and jizzing their pants the ENTIRE TIME the Joker was on screen. don't get me wrong, just about everything he did was hilarious. The disappearing pencil, the exit from the exploding hospital, all iconic, funny shit. But when you let yourself get so overcome by anticipation and excitement for something that you aren't paying attention to most of what's going on, that's just dumb. They were laughing at the really tense parts where he was cutting people open and threatening them at knife point too. What the fuck?
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Yeah I'm not saying they should actually use the story... But I think it would make a kick ass title... considering Batman's reputation by the end of this one... but seeing as how the title ties in with the endings that'd mean Batman would be reduced further in the third movie...
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but the cat can't direct and Bale can't act well enough to give the Bat the presence he deserves. And as in the first BB, cramming way to much exposition into the third act with way too little screen time just kills the mood. Get a second location director to do all of the action as well next go round. I'm not a hater, just let down like a lot of the people coming out of the theater today that wanted to see something special. Bravo and Cheers to Ledger for the best villain in comic movies to date. Rest in Peace.
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you're just stupid tyler durden. the whole movie was brilliant actually.
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and dig the mass grave! we need to get these air thiefs in ditches and shot in the backs of their heads asap.
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*HUGE SPOILERS AHEAD* At the end of TDK everyone in gotham thinks that batman is a killer and a criminal (according to plan). Batman's reputation is ruined at this point (but he chooses to endure it). For the next movie they need to show the unrelenting hunt for Batman at the same time showing the turmoil this creates for Commisioner Gordon. But another goal of the next movie should be the restoration of Batman's reputation by revealing the truth about Twoface to Gotham. It can't be Gordon who reveals it, and certainly not Batman. They both believe that "Batman" must take the heat for the killings so as to keep Dent's message alive. Twoface has to be in the next movie (as at least one of the villians). Only the presence of Twoface becoming a "public criminal figure" in the next movie will exonerate Batman of the killings. I'm sure that Anthony Michael Hall will be defending him publicly as well (given that Batman saved him in the end).
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what the fuck are you talking about? The Godfather Part II is one of the greatest movies ever made.
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is actually Waynes demise as Batman
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did you have a point? You're a fucking retard. I get it, you go to movies. Bravo. I go to football games. This doesn't make me a football player. I wasn't trying to be an ass. I just was in awe of his complete disdain for a film that was, if not masterfull (although I think it is), in even the ardent critic's eyes, is a pretty good movie. Wait, you must be a producer for Space Chimps. You should have waited a week.
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it would kill the hope for Gotham which we all know in the comics there is none, so it would be perfect, that Batman is fighting an endless war against crime that can't be won. God that would be so awesome.
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he comes back...next movie....Bane takes him out..Paul replaces his ...for months....great detective skills putts him back in the middle of the ruckass.....he becomes Batman again..only this time he loss something that was crucial....the ability to BECOME...which i guess is real important when you don a cape and cowl....
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nice "FIGHT CLUB" addition..brilliant show
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as in the things that make the books what they are, the joker laughing in his interrogation. The joker's way of talking when he says that he and Bats are destined to be forever. bats coming out of the shadows at the crime scene. God that really ruled. The way the Joker growled when he beat batman with a pole. A POLE! Like he does in the books. Gordon saying when he's commisioner "are you alright son?" Fucking hell the Nolan's are geniuses.
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This was beyond Oscars. Oscars mean shit. Stephan Graham gave one of the most realistic and brilliant performances quite possibly ever in This is England last year and he only got a british independant film nomination. It means jackshit. Being remembered via history is more important. If it meant anything, Bale would have already been nominated multiple times. Hell Gary Oldman hasn't won one yet either.
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it is still a great mvoie, not as good as part 2 but as memorable and fun as the others none the less. Again with the memorable dialogue.
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have it as a freak fest with many of the freaks coming out. Black Mask and Penguin in an arms deal war(which was the original rumoured plot) and the mobsters getting less prominent and the freaks taking over more. Then add Riddler and Catwoman to the mix. Ovcercrowding only happens when you make it a typical hero fights villain plot, but when it's layered like Dark Knight or Godfather 2 or Lord of the rings it doesn't matter how many characters you have.
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meant Pawprint in my Rant..not you...about the INDUDSTRy bit... ireplied to the wrong adress...drunk
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I miss the Narrows and the dirty brown streets, of course this took place in a different section. But hopefully the next one has more narrows in it and also the return of wayne manor which will bring even more of the beautiful brown hue that Pfister uses.
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gas on the face...didn't kill him..a measley 40 foot drop is trite
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wow, you think the same as me. no heroes in real life. all the real heroes are fictional and they are the ones that inspire.
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but all the candidates suk
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it would be awesome because it would mean they FAILED. and that would be awesome. That batman's plan failed and that the city loses hope and he'll be Batman forever.
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movies are entertainment, if things like the hong kong scene are in there to be cool scenes, so what? if you want pure logic, go solve some math problems. Movies are entertainment. I've been arguing this point for years now. The point is for you to enjoy what you are watching.
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wheres George Washinton when you need him......gas cost me 50 frakkin' dollars to fill my Crappy ass Geo............need a candidate that will take a stand....I'm really thinking of writing in Harvey Dent,....Fuck..every else sux monkey balls
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Loved so much of this flick. Loved it. About half way through i just started smiling saying, Nolan's doing it, Nolan's showing people what movies can be, they can be about something deeper and still entertain the shit out of you. That being said, i didn't love the third act. felt they should have left two face for the next flick. As soon as dent got burned it's like he was rushed into being this crazed madman... just didn't love all the two face stuff in the third act. that being said. great great great great movie.
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no robin, but had dick grayson wanting justice and to be trained and instead they make him nightwing and more a scout character? I mean the character can work it's just the big detail of being Robin would be removed.
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Ummm yeah...Angelina Jolie might, you know, be a good choice.
Also...
I was shocked at the critics who hated the fact that they *SPOILER* killed off Two-face. I left the theater thinking he was alive.
Great fucking flick! -
Shia as the new Joker. Think about it.
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If there is to be a replacement, that is. I just think picking a woman would instantly make for a very, ummmmm, separate Joker. The Joker would still be a man, just, you know, played by an astonishing actor, who happens to be a woman.
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movies are an escape...sometimes its a world that i wished id lived in..maybe for just 2 hours....or 2:35......i love the escape that cinema gives me....even the old cheesy Doug Mclure films....maybe I would love to be part of a Galactic Rebellion.....of maybe on a dig in Cairo and unearth the mother of all mummys.....maybe my world Sux...I live in the middle of ALASKA and it's starting to get cold.....maybe i wanna quit paying 4.55 for a Gallon of gas ...maybe i wanna believe a man could fly...(with big red boots..and a bright red cape)......i dunno....the world sux...iran sux...north korea sux.....iraq def sux...Idaho SUX..)(actually Idaho has good poataos)..allot good boys(and girls) are finding out the hard way..everyone hates AMERICA ..they shoot at them every day...the only thing we have is entertainment.we live are lives in a dream like state..nothing could touch us,....its not much...but it is all my ten bucks will do for me on a friday...sure i can buy a twelve pack of ice beer ...be hungover and forget bout the whole fuckin mess....or i can take my ten bucks and give it to Hollywood...and leave the planet for two hours......and think about it for the rest of my life...then discuss it with you donkeys for a whole godamn night and morning..or i could wake up hungover and do this shit all over again
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...He's already got the suit.
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Back to the Future 3 is a good movie in many respects (the Doc, teacher love story is sweet) but to say it's a classic is insulting. It's not even a cult-classic. It's not even a "it's so bad, it's good" classic. It's a notch above mediocre. The word "classic" gets thrown around haphazzardly. Rethink your outlook.
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Anything I could say has been said already...except...can anyone please make a case for this Batman utilizing a voice modulator so that people can stop making such a big deal of the Bale/Batman voice?
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I am a jerk, fine. Anyone who thinks Citizen Kane is a bad movie, is, yes...no friend of mine. What would we talk about? My whole life is film And no, I don't work at a video store. I can buy you five times over. Love your Username by the way.
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...or so reports darkhorizons.com. Spidey 3 had 59 millions opening day. That single day is 15 million more than the entire first weekend of Begins... While boxoffice doesn't reflect quality, there are exceptions. Wow.
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to Lucius Fox in his crazy, whiskey Batman voice? Habbit maybe?
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and plus they gotta deal with arses like y'all every day....Wheres the He-man series.....do you got Archie or Heathcliff mags around.....y'all bitch too much and don't see what right is front of you,,,,,Dark Knight is the GREATEST novelization by far of any movie ever made...of cource 98 percent of you have been poitive,/.////there are the few nawsayers.......PEOPLE!!!!!this is as good as it gets.....comics are ony comics for Christ sakes .....we cannot do any better than this DARK KNIGHT before us.....quit yer bitchen'''''this is the best we can do....maybe it had a pacing problem...not.....maybe it had fight editing ploblems....not.......maybe it was the best film you have ever seen......yeah there will be a part three.....yeah..Joker will need replacing(sad)......but for now...for today.....put on your batman shirts and display your "I BELIEVE IN HARVEY DENT" bumperstickers with pride......cause this is as good as it gets till maybe Star Trek.....
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I just "tried" to address that. He talks that way when he has the mask on no matter who it's to...It only stands to reason within what makes sense with "this" Batman, that he would have employed a voice modulater in the mask.
Once I worked that out in my mind, the "voice" was no longer a distraction to me...just one more thing that "worked." -
I can't heap enough praise on THE DARK KNIGHT, it's one of the best films I've seen this year and it's definitely the best of the BATMAN movies. It's dark, compelling and filled with such rich characters. Heath Ledger just completely blew away all expectations and delivered one of the best villains in movie history. I wasn't sure what to think about all of the Oscar talk surrounding this performance but after seeing what he's done, how he's completely transformed into this character, I think he deserves to be nominated at the very least. I don't think I've been this impressed with a high profile "geek" film since Peter Jackson finished out his LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy. This is such a terrific movie and I can't wait to see it again.
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If Nolan doesn't do 3, and it becomes a Hollywood/Studio film and they hire Ratner or Bay to do it...then yes, the Joker will be back to continue the iconic-ness that has been created here, only to be shat upon.
If Nolan does 3, what he created here will not be ruined. The Joker may be hinted at, hell...they may even use some unused footage of Heath from TDK to push forward whatever story they come up with for 3. But these guys are too smart to re-cast this role.
What Heath did here is beyond what most of the big name actors are capable of.
My wife reference Brad Pitt's performance in 12 Monkeys, saying he probably could have done a respectable job.
Look, I think Pitt's a fine actor, but what Heath did is quite a few notches above from what he is capable of... -
I was really moved. It's regarding Heath's performance. " I got a sense of it the first morning I worked with him, and uh, I thought this kid’s a bit good! And he was doing the scene himself, and I called a respective friend of mine who asked, ‘What’s Heath liked?’ And he said he’s sort of tuned in, it’s like a frequency – he’s found a radio station that we can’t hear. He found something. That happens to actors sometimes… You know, I think over the years when I think of performances – Nicholson in “Cuckoo’s Nest.” Al Pacino in “Dog Day Afternoon.” That sort of work where you look and go, ‘Wow, that’s going beyond… that’s special. I think he’s sort of done that. I think there are times when an actor would just like… go through the sound barrier.
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He was brilliant! When you think of some of the complete psychos he's played over his career he disappears into Gordon. A great cop in a city out control, even saves Batman. Great scene telling his son about it.
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Gary Oldman, I'm sure, was considered for Joker at one point. He was so original in True Romance. Even Kinda scary. He was the glue that held The Dark Knight together. He was the moral compass. Michael Caine, although having a big decision to make in this movie, needs more to do in the next one.
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http://tinyurl.com/6jyfav
yeah, we're that cool, deal with it. -
I was thinking about this on the way home from the theater. He's cruel, sarcastic, cynical, funny, weird, pathetic, ironic, taunting, boastful and gleeful. Ledger hit everyone of those notes and it was wonderful and distrubing to see.
But no love for Maggie's 'Rachel"? Made me forget all about Joey Katie Tom's incubator . She was a tough cookie. No, not a cold hearted bitch. A Tough Fucking Cookie.
Harvey did have the broadest storyline and when comparing it to the other performances, for him to stand out how he did is just amazing it its own right.
You know the worst part of the movie for me was Bale's perfomance - and something I thought I never would say. I love Bale. I would have sex with him. But it was like he was the catalast of conflict instead of the CONFLICT. This, if for no other character, felt like the only "Act Two" part of the movie. Also, what was with the growly "Batman" voice? Are you trying to disguse it? Because I just think you just need a Richola. -
Or bitchslap Burton and his Batman movies even harder by casting his buddy Johnny Depp. Both of them would be perfect, I think.
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Ol Wossy (sorry Yanks, won't know this guy) is a well known genre fan-he said on his radio programme this morning the film is long, wordy and boring. Hmmmmm..........
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Seriously...that sounded like something Will Ferrel would say for comic effect.
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I'm assuming you meant the scene with the new suit when Bruce asks Lucius if it will keep him safe from dogs, and Lucius said "It will keep you safe from cats."
Catwoman was the first thing that popped into my mind too. -
I agree with everything you said. I love your take on hHeath drawing a line for others to take up the challenge. I think I have been a little depressed over his performance because it was so damn fantastic that I could not imagine someone coming back with that character. What you said makes perfect sense. We may get a misstep along the way, but I think his portrayal should inspire someone to continue it and find their own glory in it. AND...Oldman is brilliant. The end.
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I think the only way to make a 3rd Chris Nolan batman that reaches the bar set here AND bypasses the Ledger dellimma is to make it The Dark Knight Returns, where Batman and Joker are in late 40s early 50's. That story line continues on themes from this movie as well (Joker yin to Batmans yang; does Gotham need a hero, copycat batmen, etc)
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It won't be the same, of course, there won't be any Superman or nuclear war, but the idea of a Batman in retirement / self-imposed exhile coming back to clean up Gotham seems about right if the ending of TDK is any indication. Then you gotta throw in your Joker as Hannibal Lector behind-the-glass, keep the copycat Batmen thing going, maybe introduce Catwoman (as someone inspired by the Batman's vigilantism manybe?), keep the Dent thing going, and so on and so forth...
Prepare yourself to be disappointed, though, because there is NO WAY part 3 is going to be able to top 2. However, it could wrap it up really nice. Oh, and please dear god no, do not go any farther than part 3. 3 is plenty. -
Had to wait so long for that.
I would go with Pee Wee Herman as Joker.
Put him in the next film.
I would go for a two face in the next film. Yet he wold be dam hard to look at for a whole two hours.
I would like to see The Riddler redeemed as well. -
The efx on that were fucking horrifyingly awesome. A totally terrifying vision. Brilliant!
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There is really no way they can top this movie. It was perfect. I really couldn't stand the curse of third movies hitting Batman. Yes there are a million ways they could go from Dark Knight but even if the next movie is good it could never come close to this one. I'm against the Dark Knight returns idea floating around. This franchise will continue there is no way around it. The third movie won't end batman because there is too much money down the road. Nolan will be on board and it will definitely make money ensuring a forth but I can't see anything coming close to this. The dark knight was magic..absolutely no way this should have happened but it did. The Joker story is complete in this one film...he doesn't need to come back. You get all the information you need and know he will be back even if it is between movies. The main problem is they can never top the joker...and I don't know if they should even try.
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One other thing, does everyone really want these movies to keep bringing back the same villians? That was the problem with Superman...Lex Luthor every freaking movie.
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It was left with too much stuff wide open, too much left up in the air, for it to be the end. I kinda agree that the Joker won't need to come back (I just think he could be recast if need be), but the Batman DEFINITELY has to... and most likely he will. I also don't suspect there will be any question that Nolan will be back. At this point, he can pretty much write his own check and do whatever the hell he wants since TDK is going to make AT LEAST 300, 400 million plus. I mean people are going absolutely nuts for this movie.
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This has been a really good talkback so far. Very few one liners and a discussion of the actual film. I guess this place really is cool sometimes.
(I "reviewed" a talkback. Lame.)e -
Loved the movie on so many levels, but had a few minor issues:
1) Did a scene get cut after Batman saves Rachel at the Party? I imagine Bruce Wayne coming back to the party and finding several wealthy Gotham socialites with hor doeuvres toothpicks skewering their eyeballs.
2) Did anyone miss Wayne Manor?
3) They could have done a little bit with the city scape scenes to maintain continuity with the first movie.
4) The movie had such a realistic quality (see #3) that seeing Batman in some scenes was actually jarring for me....
5) The last 30 minutes felt sloppier than the 100 minutes or so before. Perhaps it was the editing, the way the movie seemed to be ending and then picked up again, I'm not sure.
Overall, though, this is unlike any other "comic book" movie I can think of, and it raises the bar to such a level, that I'm not sure where they could go with a third Batman movie....I'm hard pressed to think of a Villian in Batman's rogue galerie that wouldn't be a disappointment after Heath Ledger's Joker
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You fucking racist! (Sorry, bad joke.)
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Yeah, totally agree the jump is jarring to say the least. There needs to be either a quick shot of Joker and crew leaving, or Bats going back to the party and finding the Joker has split, but left him a card with a sardonic message of some sort.
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That movie was absolutely fantastic. It wasn't done for "marketing" or whatever Harry said. Do you REALLY think that? Give me a break. That was not a child's movie and I am actually offended by the implication. I haven't seen the Dark Knight yet, but I can't wrap my mind around how it could possibly be better. And yet I keep hearing that it is. Amazing. For whatever it's worth, the only misstep of the first movie was hiring Katie Holmes. Yeah, I do realize how awful she was.
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Thank you for giving us your impression of the BATMAN. The praise for Ledger's Joker in other reviews is fine, but I never see anything written in TDK reviews about the actual Batman. After all, this is a Batman movie. And I liked your comparison to Buford Pusser too. Walking tall and kicking ass. :)
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You are a RAGING dork, but I respect your fearlessness in displaying your Herculean dorkitude for all the world to see without restraint or fear of shunning. Thats how the Joker would roll! Cheers!
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Yes, it was stated in dialogue that the population of Gotham was 30 million.
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Why has no one mention that...Joker dressed as the nurse then running after he finally get's his bomb to work...blowing up the hospital was the greatest shit ever....I vote for Keanu as the next joker...YOU KNOW HE WOULD NAIL IT!!!!!!
R.I.P.
Heath. -
Keanu will be playing Plastic Man in the Wachowski Bros next bomb (keeping in mind that I loved their previous bomb, SPEED RACER). I understand he says "whoah" a lot and looks confused.
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Didn't remember anything after that scene... Completely shattered my senses and consciousness....
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Things I liked:
The stand out scene for me was the interrogation room scene between Bats and the Joker. Fucking classic!
Two-Face...killer look and performance but weak origin and "end"
Things I hated:
The Joker talked way too fucking much..he's psychotic, not explanatory. It was like he was trying to justify everything he did through words and to me that aint the Joker. "wanna know how I got these scars?" No fucker, the first time you told the story was enough. I didn't like the fact it was warpaint and not a chemically induced face. Also, the Jokers final trick if you wanna call it that with the boats..super weak!!!
Batman's voice...sounded like he was about to drop a load in his batsuit the whole time and it played more like a parody than menacing.
Strong start to the flick but it's 30 mins too long and falls apart badly at the end. Not a bad flick but not the second coming everyone sees it as. Regardless of how much cash it makes I'm good without needing a third one.
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http://tinyurl.com/5ogxs9. Not counting the 18.5m from the midnight showings.
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Daniel Day Lewis to take on the mantle of the Joker... Older.. crazier.. different mannerisms with a hint of Ledger imitation .. It could be SCARY and FANTASTIC
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I saw one of the midnight/Friday morning screenings and it was quite the experience. The sense of anxiety that permeates throughout the film definitely had a slight physical effect on me upon exiting the theater. Lots of people hanging out in parking lots talking about various details and favorite moments. Great stuff.The movie is ambitious and loaded with great performances (and a surprising number of cameo-like familiar faces). I feel there is a sense of total confidence in the intended scope of this movie - it's just incredibly well made. I will no doubt catch another screening.And Heath......thanks for giving one of the most memorable performances I've seen in years. It is something special.
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When something sucks, people are inclined to say that it "Nuked the Fridge".Well, I would like to suggest that if something doesn't suck, then it be referred to as:FLIPPED THE BATPOD.Example: "THE DARK KNIGHT was awesome! It totally flipped the Batpod!"Steady on.
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Said it includes the midnight showings.
"That includes the $18.5M in midnight-to-3AM shows from a smaller pool of 3,040 venues." -
I don't know what I'm doing. I just... do things."
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Oh yeah. There are a lot of things happening in the movie (almost too much!) and a lot of ideas being conjured up in very intelligent ways. So, there is depth and I was glad to see that caused discussion.I have no idea where Nolan can go now either. If they do choose to do a third one, I'm of the opinion that they may want to go smaller but have the resolution/conclusion go out on a big heroic note.
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I like it. Its the reverse of Nuked The Fridge or Jumped The Shark -- when something kicks ass so fucking much it FLIPPED THE BATPOD! I think we have a winner, Gaius.
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Devin at CHUD gave the film an 8.5 out of 10. Now seeing as how he rags on Batman Begins any chance he gets,that seems impressive. Now he states that it is o.k. to good!
The more money it makes, watch his bitching increase and the rating drop. Devin is talented but really full of himself. From here on out I trust nothing they say about anything Batman. -
Now I see why this should not be done by newbies, like us. Johnny Depp (Joker)? Juliette Lewis (Harley Quinn)? Anjelina Jolie (Catwoman)? OMFG!
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aka BuffytVS . I think she would excel in the roll. And she needs a movie cult that rivals her TV one. Then she can take over the world.˙
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that most on CHUD liked the flick, but If you read the reviews, It seems to really piss them off that they like it.
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No, DDL should not replace Ledger. That's just stupid. And if Saturday Night Live can do a spot-on impression of your performance which is actually as good as your acting... it wasn't a great performance.Histrionics and caricature isn't that incredible.
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I didn't say it sucked. I said it was good. I just don't think it's "THE BEST EVAR!!!!1!!!" or anything like that.
So basically, you're saying that if I don't agree with your level of hyperbole then I shouldn't be allowed to watch movies?
Yeah. You're an asshole.
I'm a fixture here. Ask any of the AICN old-timers, including the staff; They've known my writing for over a decade. -- Who the hell are you? I've never even seen your name here before. What are you, in your teens? in your twenties? Grow up, kid, and come back when you have something more creative to say. (And if you aren't a kid, then I'm sorry. I didn't know I was picking on a retarded person).
Fuck you. I'm entitled to my opinion, and considering that I didn't even pan the movie, and gave it a good- not perfect- but good review, you have nothing to stand on.
I didn't say it sucked, but little whiny fanboys shitheads like you, acting all crazy over a less-than-perfect review are sure to sour my opinion if you keep this bullshit up.
Jeez. You remind me of a Whedonite. "IT'S ALL OR NOTHING! YOU EITHER LOVE IT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE OR YOU'RE THE ENEMY OF THE FANBASE!" -- Seriously? Is that your attitude? Then fuck you AND Batman. I'd say it deserves an even LOWER rating because the hardcore fans are total fucking assholes about it. -
Friend and I were discussing this in our seats before the movie even screened - there is a lot of "Oscar talk" around Heath's performance (not just on this site) but if he did win - who would accept the statuette in his honour? He said his ex-wife and I said she was probably an "ex" for a reason. I think Hollywood (and maybe me; I'm debating) would suggest that Jake Gylanhall accept. He is his daughter's godfather. But I am leaning towards Nolan as well.
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I know I am in the vast minority most likely when I say that I have always thought that Jack Nicholson's performance as the joker was extremely overrated. Now looking at that role after Ledger it makes me think that not only was it overrated, but it wasn't that good at all. Hate beating a dead horse but holy shit Heath Ledger was amazing.
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It's going to be the Riddler.
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But is Dent dead? I couldn't tell, and I was really looking to see if he was breathing after the fall. Bats survived (though he has the armor), so it is possible Dent did as well. It WOULD feel a little cheap if after all the build-up the only Two-Face we get is a tidbit tacked on to the end of Joker's chaotic romp. Heck, the Joker CREATED Two-Face - we need more of him. But do we need a third flick solely dedicated to him? No, I think Nolan can do more with the mythos. If this is truly to be a trilogy and number three is the last we'll get, we need at least another rogue from the rogue's gallery, and it certainly.. and sadly.. will not be a repeat performance by the Joker.
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he's always been a fan of the campier shit. i think deep down he hates the dark and gritty comic world.
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Why did Batman take the credit for several dead cops when they could have pinned it on the Joker? I know it would have been a moral compromise to pin it on the ultimate fall guy, but not naming Dent as the killer was a kind of moral compromise to start with, albeit a justified one. Also, just to chime in, I can't believe Harry suggested someone else take the reigns. That may be the most pragmatic choice, but I just can't imagine Nolan and co going for that - can you imagine the pressure on the actor? Replacing Rachel was one thing, but sheesh. Also, the one major qualm I had was that I never felt harvey was as threatening as the Joker. The Joker was trying to destroy order as we know it; Two-Face was what, trying to make a commentary on chance? No comparison. Harvey's transformation was sad as hell, but never terrifying to me (or believable in blaming Gordon). That sad, this is one of my favorite movies ever.
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*Take the reigns on the Joker character is what I meant.*
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Sinister I was pissed about the gordon thing too. The movie was so involving that I forgot about trailers and everything else I heard and really felt everyone was in jepoardy including Batman. It will just make the second viewing all the better. This really didn't feel like a batman or superhero movie. The Joker owned Batman. He beat him in every possible way and the only victory Batman had was his faith in the citizens of Gotham. Everything we have seen for the past 20 years got flipped on its head. Not enough good words for this movie.
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I was a little disappointed with the treatment of Two-Face, but you have to look at it from the view of a larger story. What they did with Two-Face will set up the scenario for the third movie. Nolan has a very clear direction in mind with these films, and after this one, I trust his judgment totally. Ledger was awesome, but we need more Joker at some point. He did an amazing job, but now that the path has been laid, it won't be as hard for someone to follow in his footsteps. How awesome would it be for the Joker to get his revenge in a future film with something in the vein of crippling Barbara Gordon?
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Although as far as replacing Heath, I do see why Harry would say that - I can't imagine where they could take a third movie, either in terms of Rogue's Gallery or theme, that could top this in stakes, story or structure without the Joker. Had Heath not died, the capitalization on the line from the Joker that he and Batman were made to do battle forever would have been orgiastic (It's a Harry review, it taints all of the affairs). But as Heath is dead, I can't imagine someone taking the reigns and me not being uncomfortable with it.
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I suppose that if you had to recast the Joker, I offer up a suggestion: Adrien Brody....he's got that long somewhat distorted face that might look great in white pancake. Hey, I thought Heath Ledger was an odd choice when I first heard it.
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Well done. Rabid fanbois can turn me sour toward anything... movies, video games, board games, you name it. Whedonites as of late are particularly disturbing. I'm avoiding Dr. Horrible right now because I know "I haven't seen it yet" is far more acceptable to my Whedon-obsessed friends than "I saw it but didn't like a few of the jokes" would be. Yech.
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Not perfect, but the good far outweighed the bad. I was a little distracted by how the "hostage" seen was shot, because of the low lighting and how busy it was. My main complaint is that I seriously don't think they will be able to top this. 3rd acts in superhero movie series' usually suck. I miss Heath Ledger!
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any would do. But i hope they don't.
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Peter Sarsgaard for the Joker. We know he could act, but can he change his voice?
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His seen had just as much tension as others in the film. More so because the guards and others would let a criminal/murderer do that for them. That scene was good I dont care what folks say. Tiny killed it.
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"Scene" edited. :)
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Also I agree with folks not liking the bat voice. It did lend a bit of cheese everytime he used it.
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You are wasting your time. Most of the posters are socially inept loners who live through the movies they talk about here. Liberal doesn't enter into it for most of them. They hear someone on television tell them to hate Bush so they hate Bush. We are not talking about self sufficient, economically educated people here. Mommy and daddy pay the bills and most of them won't own a house or even a car until grandma or whoever they live with dies and leaves it to them. They either can't handle more than one argument on either side of the = operator, or they are simply so far removed from the reality of having to turn out some kind of productive effort of their own that they cannot understand what it means to be a responsible adult. So arguments about basic concepts like supply and demand or national security are simply not an option.
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1) FUCKING SONAR: Both in the total implausibility of the whole thing and the way it contributes to the irritating way the skyscraper hostage scene is cut.2) BATMAN'S VOICE: As multiple talkbackers have mentioned, Bale's Batman growl sounds awesome when it's short and sweet (See: "I'm counting on it!"). Once he starts moving into, how shall we say, "paragraph form" such as the philosophical speeches towards the end (You were the best of us, etc etc), it gets ridiculous and more of a put-on.3. JOKER PLOT-HOLE: Seriously, where the hell does he go once Batman jumps off the tower to save Rachel? Does he kill everyone in Bruce's penthouse? If he leaves, isn't Batman just waiting for him down below? This was the only logistical jump in the movie that pissed me off.
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who can play twisted and sexy at the sametime. I honestly would vote for Charlize Theron. She can play crazy ala "Monster", and I know the movie was utter crap, but her appearance in Aeon Flux had a very cat-like image, also very sexy I might add. She's a great actress, she'd be perfect.
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I couldn't understand shit he said!
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I still loved the movie.
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That may have been one of the greatest posts in the history of the talkbacks. Bravo to you.
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apparently the friday estimate is $66,400,000insane
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I thought the same thing. Why would bats take the blame when they could pin it on Joker. Also, would the Joker or anyone else involved actually keep Dent a secret? It doesn't make a bit of sense.
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Is there anyone else out there who does NOT want to see Nolan recycle more villians from Tim Burton's and Schumachers Batman movies. No more CAtwoman, PEnguin or RidDler. If you want to see some fresh villians speak up, don't be shy.
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WOW! $66 mil for Friday alone!! That pretty much beats Spider-man 3's biggest opening record of $59 mil to a disgusting pulp!
And I agree with crazybubba, I would prefer to see something really unique in the third movie. Maybe a Black Mask or a full Two-Face story, or even possibly have Ra's come back or something. Just don't add a villian just to add a villian like the other Batman movies. Please. -
WHY are people so hung up on the Joker and/or Harvey Dent coming back? Batman has OTHER Villains!!! Move on, they have been done now and done well so lets see what's next.....
The same goes for Robin, if Robin makes it into an upcoming film great- if the story calls for it, but not if they are just going to shoehorn the character in there to meet some perceived "Need" -
It's an excellent crime film, no doubt, BUT NOT the greatest superhero film ever. It lacks the epic grandeur, majesty and charm of Superman: The Movie, as well as the emotional weight and soulfulness of Spider-Man 2.
Yes, I know, Batman is a far different character than both Clark and Peter, thus the tones of his stories are different. But I wouldn't call The Dark Knight a great Batman film, I'd call it a great Gotham City film.
Bruce was short-changed in this film. While Harvey Dent, the Joker and Jim Gordon were each masterfully realized, Batman, for the most part, was relegated to the sidelines.
The Dark Knight is a unique, powerful addition to the pantheon of great superhero films, but it certainly is not the penacle.
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I hear you. Fuck those B and C grade villains. They should bring Dent back ala The Long Halloween. I have a feeling they might.
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Not used in movies?uhh... killer croc? hush? mad hatter?the list is pretty thin...
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because why would you not want more of that! You don't take a hit of some awesome mind blowing utopia inducing drug and just because you can't take another hit as great as that one you stop taking hits! Heath was top notch as the joker but someone else can and will do it because the most important thing is that this trilogy is completed and that the third movie is as good or better than this one!
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Jul 19, 2008 11:04:56 AM CDT
And the best moment in the film comes from a bit player
by lettersoftransit
That one guy who's on the screen for just a few minutes and has one speech during the ferry sequence. You know who it is if you saw it. What made me feel great is when my son spontaneously applaude, the and the audience followed suit. Getting the aud to applaud a special effect or a line is one thing. Getting them to applaud a moral decision is something else.
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I have to agree with you. I think I had more of an emotional reaction to Spider-Man 2 that TDK.
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right?
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Trust me, as much as I love to see Berry or Theron don the catsuit, Nolan has shown us that he's not looking for A-list movie stars to be in his Gothamverse. If anything, the casting choices for the next flick should be Helena Bonham Carter (chick in fight club) playing Catwoman; Phillip Seymor Hoffman for the Penguin and Brittany Murphy as Harley Quinn. Hopefully he will choose one or two of them for the next flick. Yes, I know what you all are going to say, Murphy an actress? But think of how Harley was portrayed in the comics and especially in the animated series. I really can't think of anyone else who would portray Quinn. Dayem, I should be a casting agent.
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I actually like the B grade villians like Man Bat, Killer Croc, Bane, Harlequin, Mad Hatter and Scarface, but I also liked GrindHouse...I guess I am alone in the universe on this one (weep,sob, boohoo, wahh, woogie woogie). Hey booboo wanna steal a picnic basket?
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The movie was great but there were not any parts that really stirred anything inside me.
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I prefer Maggie Gyllenhal
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People like you are contrarians by nature; you add inches to your flaccid little peckers by talking shit on things other people love. By your own admission the praise this film is getting annoys you, so rather than act like a man and walk away, you come in here and whine like a cunt. Nobody gives a fuck what you think and nobody cares that a handful of people have issues with this film because true quality transcends stupidity and ignorance. Go suck off Spiderman 2 or whatever floats your boat and leave this discussion to the adults.
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we got to see the Joker....yes it was a good performance...NEXT!!!!
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Absolutely. And an essential element of any great superhero film is the ability to suddenly become larger than life and stir a powerful, emotional reaction within the viewer. As technically sound as The Dark Knight is, it not once compels a powerful emotional reaction. It failed to resonate on that level. The Dark Knight lacked that one magnificent moment in the tradition of Superman launching into the sky, tears streaming down his enraged face, to reverse time and save the love of his life; or Spider-Man nearly being ripped in half trying to stop a train full of New Yorkers from speeding toward certain doom. The Dark Knight needed just one epic moment like that to make it a great superhero film.
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Jul 19, 2008 11:24:08 AM CDT
I'd honestly hate to see them try to use the Joker again, but...
by cletus van damme
But if they do, go with either Crispin Glover or Ben Foster. If you've seen Hostage or the 3:10 to Yuma remake (especially the former), then you know the guy can do deranged & creepy. He's not only got experiance busting Bale's balls in 3:10, but if you saw him in the Punsiher movie, you know he's no stranger to facial torture either.
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Spiderman 2 is easily one of the most overrated pieces of cinema in history, filed with mediocre performances from most of the leading cast and saved primarily by Molina’ s work. Anybody who can watch that film and TDK and can’t honestly recognize the massive gulf in quality between the two is beyond even reasoning with. TDK has performances from Freeman, Bale, Ledger, Eckhart, Caine, while Spiderman 2 has Tobey looking mostly stoned all the way through it and Dunst delivering one of the most grating and unlikable performances in recent memory. Understand something: TDK wasn’t made for the dissenters; it’s not spectacle, it’s not crass commercial entertainment and it’s not a simple-minded good time at the movies. TDK is a courageous and intelligent film that actually delves into the nuances of the mythos. If you want grandeur, goofy villains and lots of bright lights and gee-whiz effects, you are clearly in the wrong fucking place.
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Batman has enough villians for a dozen more movies. Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, Harley Quinn, Black Mask, The Wrath, Bane, Hush, etc...etc...etc. Some of them might not be as well known to the public but how many of them knew who Ra's Al Ghul was?
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How did the Joker overtake the guy in the cell? If that ONE guy would have just stayed outside the cell, SOMEONE would be alive, and SOMEONE ELSE wouldn't have lost his face!
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I loved it, Ledger was great as The Joker. For the next installment, I'd like to see either Bane or Hush, that'd be pretty cool, imo.
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Batman’s decision to take the fall for Two Face at the end of the film to preserve Gotham’s collective hope is far more heroic than Superman flying through the air or Spiderman saving a trainload of people. Not only does Batman essentially place the entire city upon his shoulders, he does so at the cost of his very own reputation. It is a selfless and monumentally courageous act and it is even more impressive because, unlike Supes and Spiderman, he is a mortal and therefore at much greater risk. So yes, that scene was present in TDK, but since you obviously value bombast and spectacle over nuance and subtly, you obviously missed it. No doubt quite a bit of TDK flew over that pitiful, pseudo-intellectual head of yours.
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Seriously. In no way was TDK what any of you have said. I think Devin over at Chud had the closest to true review I've seen yet. There is NO hope for any of you.
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Jul 19, 2008 11:38:42 AM CDT
Jeff Albertson, stupid people are the best endorsement
by thelastcleric
Anytime a film gets slammed by someone as ignorant and woefully ridiculous as you, that in and of itself is reason to rejoice. The fact that you didn’t like TDK isn’t really much of a surprise but it does make sense. Enjoy Spiderman 2, little fella. TDK was made for adults.
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Being a "boring' art film lover, I prefer a super-hero film that really explores the metaphor of the particular question, because what are these super-heroes, legends, and myths, but metaphors for our own existence. And imo, Tim Burton's "Batman" is nearly unparalleled as a two-hour long metaphor for the dark recesses of the human mind. Everything in that film, from the opening credits to the last shot, works as an extension of the inner mind of Bruce Wayne, and, in a way, of our own dark sub-conscious. I recommend everyone listen to the director's commentary on the '89 Batman DVD. This is a reason why Ang Lee's "Hulk" is also a favorite of mine, as nearly every shot in that film works as a metaphor for man's eternal Promethean quest, to go beyond our God-given boundaries. Super-heroes work most profoundly when they explore the metaphor of man, and the '89 Batman and Ang Lee's Hulk probably have done this better than any super-hero movie I can think of.
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I contributed about 17.50 to that. So good. SO good.
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C'mon, you know you want it.
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I did not feel any emotional reaction to this film, except dread. SPOILER Rachel's death had no real sense of loss - hell, I felt worse when I thought Gordon was dead. Gyllanhal is not really made for a popcorn movie, and she is one strange looking wench. That's right, I said it. I would rather look at a beautiful fresh young thing like Katie Holmes, whose performance in BB was just fine if you ask me. You would think her death would wreck Batman, but ehh, not so much. You know what? Go ahead and flame me. Call me every name in the book. And yes I love Casablanca and Citizen Kane, so... But, THIS MOVIE IS VASTLY OVERRATED. It's got too much plot and not enough enjoyment, nothing breathes, it is cut with a meat axe, a lot of it doesn't make sense, it's so dark that it loses any sense of fun - which, correct, me if I'm wrong, comic books and summer movies are supposed to be, the action is still muddled and hard to follow, Batman feels like a supporting player in his own movie, and it creates such a corrupt world it's almost not worth saving. (If the ferrys had exploded, I would have checked out entirely) I think Ledger's performance is fantastic, absolutely the only real joy in the film, and Bale makes a great hero (can he go from Batman to Bond? - I'd be happy), it's not his fault he's not allowed much range. I love when the Bat-Pod comes out and does its first run, true Bondian coolness that the (also more serious) new Bonds have seemingly forgotten. The trick Batman pulls with the truck flip is cool. Oh yeah, and the skyhook thing in Hong Kong - I loved that. And the cityscape visuals are really beautiful. Other than those things, I have already forgotten this movie and it's not going in my collection. I'm not a comic book fan, but I do own some comic book films that I love: Xmen 1&2, Spiderman 2, Batman Begins (superior to me than its sequel), and yes, Superman Returns. I'll take a movie that concentrates on character more than mindless mayhem and BUILDS it's action sequences with meticulous clarity any day of the week. I'd rather have three specific action sequences in a movie instead of 13 that never really distinguish themsevles. And of course it all comes back to: Do you care what happens to these people? Here I just wasn't that invested. I don't know what they're going to do next - any bleaker and I know the public will turn off these movies. I guess I'm the one person in the whole world who wants the Batman movies to be fun - not stupid and bloated like the Burton and Schumacher films, but fun. Exciting. This film just never got there for me. It was always threatening to, on the verge of, but it didn't do it for me. Now, go ahead: assault my education, intelligence, manhood, eyesight, patriotism... I've never seen such a cult-like rabid attack on every dissenting opinion.
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Anybody who actually thinks Devin is right about anything should probably be shopping for a wet nurse because their mind is obviously slipping. Although I do happen to remember you being one of the shrill cunts who was slamming this film months ago because you hated everything about it even before seeing it. Good luck with that, big man.
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Means that the scientists are absolutely correct in their assesments about the almost epidemic proportions of rising Autism.
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Jul 19, 2008 11:44:46 AM CDT
Superman III was on when I got home from seeing TDK...
by cletus van damme
...talk about a day of going from one extreme to the other.
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I liked it. It has flaws to be sure, but pretty good overall. Too dark, depressing and nihilistic for me but entertaining nonetheless. Joker was a scene stealer and Ledger will be nominated for the Oscar. Two Face was pretty much wasted and unnecessary. Bale was solid but the Bat-voice has got to go! Awful! And the cowl looked terrible in several scenes. I look forward to a lighter, more comic-bookish return to form for Batman. Nolan will do a third to be sure and I'll go see it, but I'm looking forward to a change.
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I'm the straightest guy in the world, and I'd rather fuck her brother...apparently so would Ledger. ;)
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saw it, liked it.....ready for the next film on my list..............
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The handful of greasy little pussyfarts that have been blasting this film for months obviously needed to vent and I understand that. Nothing's worse than being irrelevant, which is precisely what you guys are at this point but by all means, have at it. Thus far my favorite post is C. Ryu lengthy, banal and pretentious analysis of Batman '89 and his claim that it's an in-depth exploration of Bruce Wayne's mind. Fuck, talk about over-reaching. Look fellas, it's over. Batman '89 has been erased and Nolan has delivered what no one thought possible: a definitive Batman film and a true adult comic book movie that also exists as a legitimate work of art.
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And I roll my eyes at you. Some people NEED attention so badly that they will do anything to get it. I'm not talking about the guys who have stated a true opinion... I'm talking about the guys trying to make this a competition by saying this is bad but something else is better blah blah. The Tbers who just state what they are thinking well that's your opinion and that's awsome whatever... It's the others who hate just to do it well I'm going to put a smile on your face...
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I don't know who you're talking to, or about - am I a...movimack...pussyfart, whatever that is? - but thank you for proving my point. Even though you clearly didn't even read my post.
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I think it's to do with timezones, we're, like, a week in the past or something. Oh well, WallE tonight should keep me going.
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NOW I can go see it.
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Three years ago, when Begins came out, I really loved the film but told friends that the sequel would be far superior because, with the origin story out of the way, Nolan could really begin to explore the mythos of Batman, especially if he brought the Joker back and portrayed him correctly. Two years ago, when Ledger was cast, I immediately was on board with the casting because Ledger had the right look and I knew he had the acting chops. One year ago I saw the first teaser and heard Ledger’s voice and laugh and knew, even from that brief clip, that he had nailed the role. So by all means, dipshit, call me a sheep. I’m just not so sure that really applies to somebody who was predicting excellence three years before the film was released. It’s hard to follow when you’ve already arrived, don’t you think?
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TDK was awesome, but kinda all over the place at the same time. BB was more focused. I'd love to see more direct comic interpretations of these movies, like a "Hush" movie for example.
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for disagreeing with every other reviewer- just because Heath ledger died doesn't mean the joker should die too.
Couldn't it be a testament to Heath ledger's skills that fans want his joker to live on? -
I've been thinking that same thing about BB. I think I actually prefer that over TDK, and I'm not sure why. Is there anybody else that feels like this?
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I just completely lost my entire explanation due to hitting the back button. Anyway, SPOILERS for the two of you who haven't seen the movie...
The whole point of the movie is expressed in Harvey's one line, "You either die the hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villian." Batman is not a conventional superhero such as Spiderman or Superman. Those superheroes, while their alter-egos may be flawed and struggling, will always rise to be the hero and never get lost in their creations. Batman, on the other hand, is a monster and Bruce Wayne knows he is. He had to create a monster in order to incite fear and terror and now, since Bruce is spending so much time as Batman he really is becoming a monster himself. The best example of this is when Batman is interrogating the Joker and loses it, beating the Joker into the ground while sealing himself away from the police.
The Joker is the half of Batman that has become truly lost, a freak beyond hope. Batman and the Joker paradoxically are polar opposites yet have many things in common. Enter Harvey Dent/Two-Face. Dent is the balance between the two, half a hero still for justice and half a villian, lost in his own quest. He is the hero that Batman wants to be, the one out in the open.The Joker is Dent's side that has become twisted trying to save Gotham, while Batman is still Dent's side that is whole.
And at the end of the movie, Batman makes the choice that shows which side he has chosen - sacrificing his image to protect Gotham is an act more heroic than Superman saving an airplane or Spiderman stopping a wild train. He is not acting the hero because it is unnecessary. It shows that Bruce Wayne still has his sanity, that the monster has not taken over. Bruce says, "Gotham needs a hero with a face," so he gives them Harvey Dent, the man he hopes to become one day. -
I will start off by giving Christopher Nolan a little credit. He knows his core audience, his demographic for this movie. He knows that most of you nerds take yourselves waaay too seriously. He knows that a lot of you tried to grow your beards when you were teenagers so that you may look older and wiser. He knew that by you trying to grow out your beards at such an early age it meant that you thought yourelves as "stoic", "mystical" and "wizardly". You pictured yourselves as the characters you played in your fantasy role games. As you fealt your intelligence growing (through the reading of L. Sprague de Camp,David Farland and Terry Goodkind ) you also started to form a strong bond with your own opinions for things of no concern to anyone else. You started to demand that comics become more "adult" and that your superhero movies follow suit. "Why can't Batman be more real?!" I want to beleive it because I am now starting to realize that I may not be that fantasy character I thought I was. I miss my mom fixing me bowls of fruit loops on Saturday mornings while I watched cartoons. Hold on!! I really am an adult now!! I want my childhood back but I want it to be adult like!! My god, I just realized something....I do lack social skills and the ability to seperate fantasy from fiction. I want my cartoons, comics and superhero movies to be a grown up version of my childhood past I try so desperately to cling too. GODDAMN I SUCK!!
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the problem with the emotional thing at the end of TDK was that it didn't make a bit of sense as people have pointed out above. It also felt rushed about Batman taking the blame. I agree with everyone who says this movie fell apart in the third act.
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I'm completely serious.
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Always do a lousy job
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Nice analysis of Dark Knight's metaphor
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I will start off by giving Christopher Nolan a little credit. He knows his core audience, his demographic for this movie. He knows that most of you nerds take yourselves waaay too seriously. He knows that a lot of you tried to grow your beards when you were teenagers so that you may look older and wiser. He knew that by you trying to grow out your beards at such an early age it meant that you thought yourelves as "stoic", "mystical" and "wizardly". You pictured yourselves as the characters you played in your fantasy role games. As you fealt your intelligence growing (through the reading of L. Sprague de Camp,David Farland and Terry Goodkind ) you also started to form a strong bond with your own opinions for things of no concern to anyone else. You started to demand that comics become more "adult" and that your superhero movies follow suit. "Why can't Batman be more real?!" I want to beleive it because I am now starting to realize that I may not be that fantasy character I thought I was. I miss my mom fixing me bowls of fruit loops on Saturday mornings while I watched cartoons. Hold on!! I really am an adult now!! I want my childhood back but I want it to be adult like!! My god, I just realized something....I do lack social skills and the ability to seperate fantasy from fiction. I want my cartoons, comics and superhero movies to be a grown up version of my childhood past I try so desperately to cling too. GODDAMN I SUCK!!
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Yes, that was a great explanation.
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Your whining is the thing that makes me want to vomit. How you've been here for ten years and no handed you your stupid ass on a plate, I'll never know. Talkback ain't as tough as they want it to be, I'd say. You're some stupid girl, aren't you?
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Why the double post so far apart?
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Face facts, most people went into that movie with high expectations based on the success of the first and the hype surrounding Ledger's Joker. Nothing lives up to our own, unrealistic expectations. Give this movie a few years and watch it again through an objective lens and its quality will come out.......To others who say there was no emotional reactions: Harvey Dent's transformation was emotional b/c Eckhart played it as a man who world crumble around him. Also, watching Ledger as the Joker had to bring some reaction if only b/c he died and this would be his last, full role.
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no one has yet explained WHY the Joker needs to be recast.....why does there NEED to be the Joker in another film we have this movie, we have a Joker tale....the storyine can progress there are other villians in the world...
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The only people that do not like the 1989 Batman were not even an itch in their Daddy's pants.
Just kidding. That is the best trolling attempt I have in me. If you don't like it, your choice. -
The only people that do not like the 1989 Batman were not even an itch in their Daddy's pants back then.
Just kidding. That is the best trolling attempt I have in me. If you don't like it, your choice. -
Double post
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Would be the biggest mistake they could make.
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You're right let me fix that.
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I will start off by giving Christopher Nolan a little credit. He knows his core audience, his demographic for this movie. He knows that most of you nerds take yourselves waaay too seriously. He knows that a lot of you tried to grow your beards when you were teenagers so that you may look older and wiser. He knew that by you trying to grow out your beards at such an early age it meant that you thought yourelves as "stoic", "mystical" and "wizardly". You pictured yourselves as the characters you played in your fantasy role games. As you fealt your intelligence growing (through the reading of L. Sprague de Camp,David Farland and Terry Goodkind ) you also started to form a strong bond with your own opinions for things of no concern to anyone else. You started to demand that comics become more "adult" and that your superhero movies follow suit. "Why can't Batman be more real?!" I want to beleive it because I am now starting to realize that I may not be that fantasy character I thought I was. I miss my mom fixing me bowls of fruit loops on Saturday mornings while I watched cartoons. Hold on!! I really am an adult now!! I want my childhood back but I want it to be adult like!! My god, I just realized something....I do lack social skills and the ability to seperate fantasy from fiction. I want my cartoons, comics and superhero movies to be a grown up version of my childhood past I try so desperately to cling too. GODDAMN I SUCK!!
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I will start off by giving Christopher Nolan a little credit. He knows his core audience, his demographic for this movie. He knows that most of you nerds take yourselves waaay too seriously. He knows that a lot of you tried to grow your beards when you were teenagers so that you may look older and wiser. He knew that by you trying to grow out your beards at such an early age it meant that you thought yourelves as "stoic", "mystical" and "wizardly". You pictured yourselves as the characters you played in your fantasy role games. As you fealt your intelligence growing (through the reading of L. Sprague de Camp,David Farland and Terry Goodkind ) you also started to form a strong bond with your own opinions for things of no concern to anyone else. You started to demand that comics become more "adult" and that your superhero movies follow suit. "Why can't Batman be more real?!" I want to beleive it because I am now starting to realize that I may not be that fantasy character I thought I was. I miss my mom fixing me bowls of fruit loops on Saturday mornings while I watched cartoons. Hold on!! I really am an adult now!! I want my childhood back but I want it to be adult like!! My god, I just realized something....I do lack social skills and the ability to seperate fantasy from fiction. I want my cartoons, comics and superhero movies to be a grown up version of my childhood past I try so desperately to cling too. GODDAMN I SUCK!!
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How's that?
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My favorite for sure is Gordon's final speech - that thing gives me goosebumps it's so true and powerful. Love Gordon.
Harvey's silent scream in the hospital, when he wakes up and realizes he has nothing left, set to that music cue, is outstanding.
And yeah, just because it's totally fucking badass, I geeked out when the Joker killed a guy with a pencil. -
..How much time would've Dent lived anyway? I mean, with that eye.. almost hanging out.. dry-out.. "agonizing pain", as Gordon said.. Come on.. he couldn't last long
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66.4 MILLION!!!!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT!!!! batman begins made less than that in its first 3 days!!!!!!
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Generally, when you're gonna talk down to people and act like you're better and smarter than they are, it helps to figure out the whole "single posting" thing first. Idiot.
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An underrated part of the film occurs when Ledger nicely asks the impostor to look into the camera twice, and when he refuses, Joker yells at him a third time in a voice that is absolutely unhinged in its fury. Just, wow.
LOOK AT ME!
That part scared the shit out of me. -
Generally when you are going to flame someone on these here talkbacks it helps if you go back and read the posts. This way you'll have a little better grasp on the subject matter you are trying to comment on. Idiot.
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Then....generally, you will see as to why I double posted. Idiot.
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And, generally if you wash your underware more often you won't have that over abundant baby diaper waft emanating from your person. Oh, and shave your beard too you fag.
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I have found both Batman Begins and TDK to be a rich source of metaphors. While the first movie explored the idea of Fear, this movie centers almost completly around Choice. And it is not the simple choice metaphor that some comic book movies explore: clear good vs. evil. In TDK, the choices are rarely clear cut, which is why it carries so much more weight than the typical summer blockbuster. Even when a character thinks he is making a choice for good....it could have devestating consequences. The Joker believes (and some might argue) that he alone represents ultimate freedom of choice...but there lies anarchy, freedom with no limits or responsibilities. Untimately the characters are fighting for the freedom of choice and fighting afainst the idea that choices are pointless. This makes Harvey Dent's story arc one of the saddest, because when faced with the consequences of his and others choices, he succumbs to the ultimate despair of puposelessness. Ironically, by choosing to let chance (coin toss) decide his actions, he is making a choice as well. Most of the other characters (and the general population of Gotham) make significant choices in the film, some of which will have interesting consequences, but at least they have accepted some measure of control over their fate.
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The Chud reviews are about as interesting as an elderly whores rancid anus. Devin faraci reads like a bitter old dork who hates anything popular, because its popular. He tries to be an anti-geek, but mostly comes off as a lonely, pathetic pussy.
Fuck Chud, and fuck Underoos Hero(Faraci!) -
Jul 19, 2008 12:45:59 PM CDT
"I love films the way a dog loves humping your leg at Thanksgivi
by dashing roger
Well said, Harry. The most honest thing you've ever written.
If you could just work food into that quotation somehow (like "...Thanksgiving dinner, after I just went for eighths"), it could be your introduction at your this-is-your-life roast. -
Great evaluation.
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You posted the same inane message twice...on purpose? In that case, I take back what I said. That's genius.
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Psychobabble. Really? You have got to be fucking kidding me? Are you looking for metaphors? If so, please scroll up and refer to my post entitled "Nolan And The Common Geek Folk". I'm quite sure you will find this post rich in "metaphors". Enjoy.
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It's so much better the way you spelled it. And it makes a much better insult. I'm sure the folks at Merriam Webster have taken note.
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i think its hilarious in the quality difference between spiderman 3 (current record holder for opening weekend) and dark knight. spiderman 3 might be one of the worst movies ive ever seen, and although i havent seen dark knight yet, i have a feeling that it will easily make my top 10. its cuz the retard studio execs think "hey lets not have any bad guys, it might scare the kids." then the movie breaks records. fuck that. i love that nolan and co. have thrust a finger into the ass of those morons and all the dickheads in charge who constantly fuck the source material in the ear
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Washing machine? check. Dirty undies? check. Laundry detergent? check. Now, simply combine the detergent and dirty undies in to the washing machine, set prefered cycle, set and wash.
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Is rich in excrement. Stop trying to be an "outsider". It's sad.
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Am I the only one that thinks she's totally NOT attractive? She's a great actress, but as I was watching Dark Knight I kept thinking that Bruce Wayne of all people could do better. Her body isn't even hot, only average. Yes, I'm a pig.
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Wow! I usually don't care when someone blasts my opinion on a talkback because that's just their opinion, but when I read your comment, I was blown away by your arrogance, your bloated sense of superiority and your ignorance. First off, Godfather, Chinatown and Casablanca are three of my favorite films, so for you to assume that I think those movies are boring without having a clue makes you ignorant. Second, you stated that I "obviously" don't work in the industry, well, I have been working in the industry for 15 years now, but because you are so ignorant, you assume that anyone who differs in opinion from you must be below you and be, as you said "talentless and uneducated". I'm so glad to hear that people like you are so proud to throw around the "I work in the industry, I'm that much better than you" attitude. I am not as ignorant as you are so I will not assume what you like or dislike or your career choices. If I were to assume, I would say that you are some snot nosed fresh out of film school punk who uses the name of his favorite director as a screenname because he hopes to someday achieve that level of greatness in his art as soon as he gets a few more Production Assistant credits under his belt and enters his video project in that festival.
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Bad wannabe Gandalf beard? check. Razor? check. Shaving cream? check. Simply apply shaving cream to face, shave and rinse. WAHLLAH!! New look!
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...there is no one on all the internets as retarded as a dedicated AICN troll. Isn't there already a site for people who want to spend long hours hating movies and acting like self-impressed cunts? Chud, or something?
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Your undies are rich in excrament.
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There's nothing better than an elitist who also happens to be really, really dumb. I'm sure irony is a concept that'd give you almost as much trouble as the spelling of underwear and not hitting the "post talkback" button more than once. But trust me, you're well on your way to becoming the poster child.
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How could I have missed it since you posted it twice. I was going to give you a pass on your arrogance....Others have already indicated what they thought of your post. Unlike you I don't feel a need to pepper my reponse with insults and four letter words. I also am always amazed at the holier than thou attitude of some people who are posting on a "geek" fan site
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#3.Earth Girls are Easy
#2.Basic Instinct 2
and Underoos Hero favorite movie of all....
#1 Biggles: Adventure's In Time -
I really enjoyed this movie. It wasn't the second coming but one hell of a ride.Thought the cast was outstanding. Everyone deserves props. Hopefully they will make a third. Love to see Nolan and crews vision of the Penquin or Riddler.Glad I went.
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Look! I'm paying attention to you! You can use this opportunity to use some misspelled variation on the word poop! You can probably get a good 3-4 flame posts out of this! Look how happy you are!
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I'll guess that you're in your twenties and you had a problem with paying attention in school but yet you were the fag that sat in class correcting people. It takes more talent to play dumb well than it does to be dumb and act talented.
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Underoos Hero was caught jerkin' his dirty twig at a 3am showing of Fresh Horses, starring Molly Ringworm..wald and Weekend At Bernie's Guy
Can you feel the heat of the red playing card Underoos Hero? -
Yeah, that part with Joker yelling was awesome.
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I am pretty sure that all of you combined could not toil with me on any level. How do I know this? Well, none of you have even begun to get the gest of what I'm doing. So, knowing this I have fun with the likes of your kind. Keep at it though. You guys are trying really hard and it shows. You'll give up soon and accredit it to "He's not worth it". hehehe
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in begins, bruce says "...to all you TWO-FACED friends, you sicophantic suck-ups, who SMILE through your teeth at me, please go. stop smiling, this is not a JOKE, please leave..." so if nolan leaves clues to who his villains will be, then the mention of cats may indicate catwoman. she's realistic, she just has to be a catburgler, and they may give her the name catwoman coz she's female, she doesn't necessarily have to wear a catsuit.
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I could continue to insult you, but at this point, it's like running the 50-yard-dash against a group of Special Olympians. Sure, it seems fun and you feel a momentary sense of accomplishment. But soon, you end up feeling bad for taking advantage of someone who's obviously quite challenged.
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Nah, our puny minds could never compare to yours, UH.
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You just proved my point above...
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... of course you can not say that TDK was a shitty movie and have any ounce of credibility left in your body! Please do society a favor and stop trying to think about things!
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I don't get your gest, man, maybe your dyslexia coach could explain it to me, and then I'd understand the greatness of your highly nuanced performance art piece. I'm sure people WILL be studying it for years, trying to find a cure.
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No, I'm afraid I don't get the "gest" at all. I'm not even sure I get the gist of what you're saying. I just don't have the mental faculties.
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one of the most chilling / disturbing parts of the movie. i was hoping for more scenes like that.
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Your little performance is nothing new around here. Sorry.
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That we will see a Catwoman in a Nolan Batman movie? Anyone remember that fiasco with H. Berry? Come on.
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In Underware Hero's case, sadly, no.
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Damn you're good!!
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You guys are really good at catching spelling flaws. However, attacking someone's spelling flaws is about as lame as it gets fellas. Sorry, it just is. You're going to have to come up with something better. None of your arguments or insults are funny or origianl. I will give credit where credit is due though. So if you happen to come across some good insults about me I will give you a digital high five. Otherwise, keep on suckin'.
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Did you catch the spelling error in my last post?!! Hurry now!! Who'll be first?!!
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You misspelled origianl! *singing* You must be stuuuuuupid.
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Cunts who want to wave their dicks around and attempt to troll but can't string together a coherent sentences. Take a cue from your spiritual mentor Albertson, there, and learn how to phrase a thought before you launch into your next contrarian attention binge.
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WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO You did it man! GOOD ONE!! ALRIGHT!! WAY TO GO TIGER!!
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Coherence sucks too.
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Cunts who want to wave their dicks around and attempt to troll but can't string together a coherent sentences. "How did you miss that one"?
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ledger's was too good, and the nolans are more than capable of writing him out. besides, there are a lot more freaks that they could introduce. i'd love to see the nolan brother's take on riddler (to show even more detective work from the world's greatest detective), Bane (a roided but smart big guy, which would make bruce consider steroids. this would be in keeping with the escalation theme, and it would require bats to match his wits and physical abilities with bane), and maybe catwoman as another not-too-evil villain. That way the nolans could correct the atrocities of burton's catwoman and schumacher's riddler and bane, after correcting the joker and 2face.
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Jul 19, 2008 1:31:38 PM CDT
damage, i thought you'd be on underwear's side on this issue!
by crashbarbarian
cause you just mildly liked TDK
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You win, enjoy your afternoon of, well, whatever it is you're doing.
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I guess that PhD was worth something.
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of comic book movies. in imdb it's actually number 3 in the top 250 of all time, after godfather and shawshank redemption. It's actually AHEAD of godfather 2. holy shit.
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I agree with Harry that it will take an actor with real stones to pick up the Joker that Ledger created here...And to those who say that we shouldn't have the Joker in any upcoming bat-films: I disagree. The Joker is Batman's ultimate villain. Excluding the character as an active force in future films could undercut the "epic" nature of the Nolan Bat-Films...As far as casting another Joker: Has anyone mentioned Joaquin Phoenix? I think he has the chops to follow Ledger's performance. He has a similar physicality to Ledger that I think would work, ie Phoenix's Joker would not be so different as to be discordant with Ledger's Joker, but Phoenix is a sytrong enough actor to make the character his own while respecting Ledger's work. As far as other actors who have been mentioned: I think Depp is too recognizable, too big a star to play the character. Daniel Day-Lewis would, I think, play the role in his own distinct style, by which I mean that I think his take on the character might diverge too much from Ledger's definition of the character. Basically, I think you need an actor who is strong enough to play the Joker, but not so drastically divergent from Legder's work as to make the Joker seem like anything other than the same character that Heath created. Phoenix, for some reason, seems like the right guy to me.
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http://tinyurl.com/5l83b2
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Are you on fucking crack?
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Thank you all for your time today. I really learned something about myself today. But above all, I learned that there are competent people on talkbacks who are more than willing to help you understand your flaws and spelling errors. Even if they don't read or understand what they are reading it's nice to know that people like you are out there. So thanks for letting me win. Constructive criticism is wonderful. May you all beat the odds of your family trees and have tard free children.
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Take a shot whenever someone crashes through/jumps out of/falls from/gets skyhooked from a window/high building.
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Take a shot everytime something in TDK sucks. Now that's living on the edge baby!
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Thank you, son.
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Undies didn't make any spelling errors or double post that time. Now we might have to actually pay attention to what he's saying. God Dammit!
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get to drink?
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You are good. How do you come up with this stuff? You're so "wacky" and original. Love it. *claps hands, re-reads Psychobabble's post and marvels at the wit*
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Mysteries? The Riddler? So probably the Riddler for Part Three, and I would hold off on Catwoman. As much as I was rooting for her to pop in 3 and let Bane be the real Baddie, I think maybe Bane should be put on hold til at least #4 so you can have the whole knightfall thing go down with him setting free tons of weirdos. So they need to introduce lots of weirdos in 3. And that's easy, cuz theirs a plethora of gimmicky villains to choose from (penguin, hatter, scar face) that would fit in well in that world. But who can be the villain in part 3? Like the really Bad A$$ guy like Ras Al Ghul and the Joker? I'm thinking bring back the league of shadows and Talia, and maybe even her dear old dad. Then show the rise of all these crazies at once. Then Bane for part four.
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I told you. It's because of people like you that someone like myself can improve upon his spelling misfortunes and turn that "R" in dyslexia around. Hold up...is there an R in dyslexia? Help please because my Google's not working.
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Jul 19, 2008 1:57:09 PM CDT
more like the Empire Strikes Back than Godfather 2
by smoke monster loves kate
imo.fucking amazing. i'm so glad i didn't read any spoilers for this.harvey dent's character put this over the top into that stratospheric tier of films.
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Everyone I know IRL who has seen this movie (and considering the BO... it basically means everyone I know who GOES TO MOVIES has seen this movie already) loves it. They are not comic geeks they are REAL PEOPLE with girlfriends and REAL LIVES. Enyone who's bitching about TDK therefore is a virgin, ugly and a loser who wants attention. It's like the nerds at the comic book store who were trashing ESB when it came out to try to salvage something cool out of their pitiful lives simply by being contrary(and yes there were such people back). This is a great movie by any objective standard, you tards are too stupid to realize how retarded you sound by trying to trash it (kind of the like the neo-con psycho who trashed Godfather for being too violent) GET A CLUE
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Did anyone else get annoyed that that whole subplot went absolutely nowhere?
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Of course, you realize that Liam Neeson was not playing the REAL Ras Al-Ghul in BATMAN BEGINS. He was playing Henri Ducard, who was PRETENDING to be Ras Al-Ghul. Bruce Wayne/Batman has not yet even MET the REAL Ras Al-Ghul. ?Liam Neeson?DuCard simply was one of Ras Al-Ghul's top agents, and a key leader in the League of Shadows. So, Ducard is deceased, but Ras Al-Ghul is still out there, scehming his evil schemes. Maybe we can get Nolan to cast Terrance Stampo as Ras.
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...anywhere near Ledger or Daniel Day Lewis etc...that's a whole other level. He's a 'star'. I'm always amazed when he's mentioned as a 'great actor'.
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School scene in Die Hard with a vengence
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School scene in Die Hard with a vengeance, better then the Batman take on it with the Hospital scene. (fucking double posting shit)
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that Christopher Nolan and Heath Ledger took the Joker to a completely different level, but things are a lot different than they were 20 years ago, no studio would have signed off on this then. And Nicholson's Joker wasn't like the TV Joker at all, if the Caesar Romero Joker captured me, that's just an inconvenience, like a flat tire. If Nicholon's Joker captures you, you're dead (remember those corpses with hideous grins). If Ledger's Joker captures you, you'll die, but probably have to watch your family die first. Burton's Batman came out a year after The Killing Joke, so we were all primed for a truly sadistic and twisted Joker, but there is no way the studio would have allowed that at the time. A lot has changed, and Burton's Batman helped pave the way. It was an 80s Batman movie, I'm surprised Burton was able to make it as dark as he did. Jack Nicholson did a great job considering the restraints of the time period the film was made.
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is the only one that could duplicate that performance or best it. but he's already been the riddler and acted crazy in every film he's ever made. if only he could be an unknown and then cast again.as for next movie's villains... bring back two-face and joker? or just one of them? PLEASE BRING THE RIDDLER INTO THIS. the riddler would make for a fucking amazing film, topping the twists and turns of this one. the penguin could be alright too, but the original burton films still hold a special place in my heart so i see no need to revisit that. batman forever's two-face was fixed, now fix riddler.i'd say use two-face and riddler with cameos by the joker in arkham or something.
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Make a Bizarro-Batman, or a What if... Batman. So it can be intentionally funny or stupid. Rather then make Batman and Robin or Spiderman 3.
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those are 2 villains that should never have been matched up once, yet alone twice.
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Penguin emerges as a crime boss who runs businesses to front for his criminal activities, but should not be a main villain, just the new face of the mob. two face comes back of course, and the riddler (a puppet of the joker) continues to spread the chaos. see my posts above about the riddler and penguin.
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Else see the jowls on Maggie Gyllenhaal? I hope they cast her as skeltor in the upcoming He-Man movie.
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Doesn't compare to Ceasar Romero!! Seriously though I came in my pants about 10 times during the movie, it was hard getting out of my seat afterwards.
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The heroic warrior of children's underwear? It's getting boring without him. Somebody insult him, quick!
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Gary Oldman said so a few weeks ago. There's speculation he's going to be an internet terrorist or something, which could be cool. http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/01072008/5/batman-fight-riddler-next-0.html.
I thought Malin Ackerman would be a good catwoman but I agree that I don't think she belongs in Nolan's universe and she's already playing the Silk Spectre in Watchmen. -
if nolan doesn't do it. coz let's face it, nolan won't be doing batman forever (unintended pun, and a 3rd movie too!) but warner bros will continue making batman movies. so id rather nolan finish up with a 3rd then hand the reigns to another team for their own interpretation with a new cast, so that if they mess up, nolan & co.'s set of films won't be tarnished. we will always have the 3 great nolan batman stories. so i hope nolan agrees to do a 3rd and uses great villains like riddler, bane, and catwoman, and add supporting characters, real nutjobs like poison ivy or scarface, or some not so interesting characters like firefly to show batman catching some freaks in an intro just like scarecrow was used in tdk. hell, even if they just show newspapers that say 'the batman captures firefly / madhatter' i'll be happy enough.
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I'm here. I'm just all better now thanks to you guys. I have nothing to add. My dyslexia however is not cured. I was lying about that part. I simply went out and bought a new ADA approved keyboard for the dyslexic. It's bad as hell! I don't even have to look down at the keys while typing either. Gosh this is neat.
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If Riddler was ever named Reese in any of the comics or cartoons?
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1. Luscious Fox hints at in TDK. 2. It's in keeping with the fact that Nolan has adapted Frank Miller's Batman universe, and you all of course know that Selina Kyle was featured as a prostitute in both Miller's DK Returns and Batman Year One. 3. Miller's Catwoman's underground world fits in with the gritty realistic universe of these recent films. Catwoman, a former street hustler and thief seeking revenge on the criminal underworld. 4. Catwoman is the fourth most recognizable character in the Bat universe behind Bats, Robin, and Joker, so that means good box office. And.. 5. WB needs to seriously reboot the character of Catwoman after the Halle Berry debacle...
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I hope too see Two-face again, but I have no idea how they would do the story. I would love to see more villains but who and and why? The only other villains beside Joker and Two-Face that could really fit into the Nolan movies could be Black Mask maybe. Then again Nolan could go in an entirely different direction and really shake things up by focusing on monsters like Clayface, Killer Croc or Man Bat.
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Like at the end of Begins, the ending of DK makes me anticipate what Nolan has in store for us next in this remarkable series.
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For the shrill minority who dislike TDK or want to nag it to pieces, how about a game where you take a drink every time you can actually recall enjoying something unconditionally; I mean, to really love and appreciate something, like a book or a film, and not waste your time complaining over trivial flaws that are present in all artistic expression. Most of you would never drink again, yes? It's really pathetic that we've reached an era where gushing over quality supposedly equals intellectual weakness; that everybody feels obligated to critique rather than to merely enjoy. Some films and books and even TV shows really are pretty fucking great and deserve praise, which is why I can honestly say I perceive myself as a much happier person than most of you who not only dislike this film but actually feel slighted that so many others, including the vast majority of critics, are praising it. You poser intellectuals, with your expansive, tired college words and your pedestrian cinematic deconstruction, seem to have forgotten one of the inherent and fundamental rules of criticism; you can dislike something and still appreciate it. I personally didn't like Ironman as much as everybody else but I still appreciate the quality it represents and I certainly didn't need to troll in forums to express my displeasure in some transparent need to harm other people's enjoyment. If you can’t glean some significant positives from TDK, regardless of your own personal distain, then there's really no reason to take your opinions seriously. Yes, TDK is that fucking good.
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As The Riddler. Let it be so!
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Just because Morgan Freeman said the word "cat" in TDK, it doesn't mean that it was a sly hint to Batman fans to expect Catwoman in part 3. Je. Sus. Christ.
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It was a good movie, a really good movie. But Christian Bale is a horrible Batman. A good Bruce Wayne, but a horrible Batman. I almost laughed out loud at every word he said in his gruffy tough-guy voice.
Ledger was great. Eckhardt was great. Gyllenhal was great. Olman was great.
Bale was the weak link in this. -
is how gotham looks so different, the only thing i recognized is the highway. no elevated trains, no narrows, different wayne bldg. but don't get me wrong, like i said these are just nitpicks. oh, and bale's voice in tdk seemed more distracting than in bb, i really wish nolan used a fictional voice-altering device instead, like in the scream movies ("hello cindy") but better sounding.
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The Dark Knight is a work of art. Reviewers and viewers nearly ALL love and praise this film. But a very tiny handful of you who didn't care for it are calling EVERYONE who did 'sheep'? Ok. You enjoy your solitary self delusional elitist existence while the rest of us enjoy watching Heath Ledger give a gifted performance about people like you.
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with his head out the car window, careening through Gotham, was really poignant. Iconic, even.
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was he just a regular schlub now, playing some role-playing Batman game? I didn't get the beginning part with him and those other guys.
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No shit. From that very first opening shot, you knew it was Chicago. That's ripping you right out of the movie before it even begins.
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Jul 19, 2008 2:39:35 PM CDT
if Joker's in Pt. III, expect J. Gordon Levitt in white makeup..
by chishu_ryu
The same way Maggie replaced Katie as Rachel, because they look somewhat alike...
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Jul 19, 2008 2:40:57 PM CDT
Would Some One Be So Kind To Fill Me in One The Final Dent/Gordo
by mjgtexas
I learned a very valuable life lesson today...if you drink a 64 oz Diet Coke before a 150 minute plus, sold out Imax film, don't sit in the center. So if someone would fill me in on what I miss while taking a record whizz, it would be greatly appreciated.
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Nolan and Williams together again. Robin finally gets to be Riddler, after being dropped for Jim Carey, and make him a cyber criminal fucking with infrastructure. Let Robin let out the nerd menace that he's shown in some of his other smaller films. Batman doesn't need physical enemies, he needs intellectual enemies. Heath was a marvel in TDK. I think that Robin, given the chance, could give as remarkable a performance. We all know it's there in him. That's my opinion.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOWc_O6kJZw
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I agree that TLJ is a better actor than Eckhart, but TLJ/Schumacher's Two-Face was a travesty of that great character, just from the shear fact that you couldn't tell which side of TLJ's Two-Face's face was the scarred side and that he had shitty taste in suits.
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All I got to say.
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i think fox's mention of cats is clearly a hint. honestly i didn't even get it while watching, and it felt kinda weird that fox said that. it's only now that i read it in these talkbacks that i realized it and it makes sense, and it's clearly a hint or simply just a nod. but like i said, in bb there were hints of joker and two face in bruce's drunk-acting speech ('you 2 faced friends...' '...who smile through your teeth at me...' 'this is not a joke...'). So going by that, it's not too far fetched to think maybe nolan is hinting that catwoman will be in the 3rd.
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Great review, Harry. Although, I wouldn't call Jack Nicholson's performance "painful." Mainly, I think they were just playing two different characters.
In fact, I wrote an article that compares Jack and Heath's differing performances in greater detail. You can check it out at: www.recycledfilm.net -
Yeah, that line made me look at my brother like WTF? Makes sense that it's a nod to Catwoman. Great earlier post about the speech in the mansion, too. Well done, never picked that up. Pot makes me slow, he he
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Excellent cast, everyone was really good in their roles. Aaron Eckhart would be great as Cap. Speaking of Eckhart, wasn't there a character with that name in the first Tim Burton "Batman"? I think the Joker shoots him?
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I think you're on to something. In BB, Katie Holmes says the word Mask. That means Black Mask will be in Part 3. Fuck yeah! The code is cracked!
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am i the only one on this board who expected more from the dark knight? i mean, ledger's performance was a unbelievably brilliant but what about the rest of the film? the joker had all the best lines. bale's voice as batman was borderline silly at times, CGI dent as two face was laughable and undersold, the ferry scene went WAY too long and had a cheesy, pointless ending, there was virtually no chemistry between rachel dawes and harvey dent and even less between her and batman/bruce wayne. plus when she dies, she doesn't even get a funeral, alfred doesn't even appear to be upset, he simply tells bruce to "endure". in my opinion, nolan SHOULD have killed off gordon. doing so would have hijacked the movie from the audience and we wouldn't know what to expect after that. killing off a major character that we know damn well is supposed to live on would have been a brilliant move that would have allowed him to truly own the story and the audience for the rest of the film. the last 30 minutes of the film were just god-awful with that ridiculous sonar device and two face suddenly forgetting all reason and logic and kidnapping gordon's family. it's not like he suffered brain damage. harvey dent was an intelligent, upstanding idealist who we were shown during the first two thirds of the film to be an extremely rational and strong person. it's simply not believable that he would go that far, that quickly. i buy that he might kill the crooked cops and the mobsters but gordon's family? batman? didn't buy it. one last thing, with all the talk of realism in this film, making gotham and the joker more realistic, why the CGI two face? the last part of the film, once dent became two face felt rushed and crammed into a movie that didn't need it. they should have introduced two face at the very END of the film as the villain for the next batman. just some thoughts, anyone agree, disagree? i'm curious to hear your responses.
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Ledger's Joker is the mixed-up, fucked-up, generation Y, abused scarred bastard offspring of Nicholson's deadly glory-seeking style monger. Search your feelings, you know this to be true...
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Re: damage_inc Are you referring to me or someone else?
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out of four stars, i'd give the film 4 out of 4 for during all the scenes featuring the joker, 2 out of 4 during the rest of the film, averaging out to 3 out of 4. it's not like i hated the film, i just think that it fell far, far short of what it could have been.
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Two Face sucks, all the scenes are botched at the end, didn't anyone notice ? How does Gordon arrest the joker, just by telling him not to move ? The movie is patch job.
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and rather disappointed when he turned up again. Yeah, the boat scene was dumb and pointless, but it served a slightly larger point about the people of Gotham not being as bad as the Joker thinks they are. The CGI two-face didn't bother me at all, I thought it was rather well done.
My biggest gripe was the woman who brought her two kids with her, who couldn't have been more than 4 years old, and sat them down right in front of me. Seriously? Three quarters of the way through the movie the kids are running all over the theater and whining because they want to go home. It was unbearable. -
tHE SCNE WHERE JOKER GOES FIND 2 FACE AT THE PARTY IS A RIP OFF OF DIE HARD HANS SEARCH TAKAGI SCENE? DIDN4T ANYONE IN THE WORLD NOTICE ?
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In the real world, the good american citizen would have killed all the goons, and be proud of his genocide.
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Bush would have decorated him. Cop off from the filmakers.
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According to multiple reviews and opinions are:We don't know what happens after Rachel is saved.Batman has a weird voice.The movie is too long, but needed to explain the above Rachels saved scene.For some the movie is too dark. Irony.It isn't 'fun' enough, shouldn't have been so serious.No one gave me wad of hundred dollar bills while receiving felatio from multiple strippers, while doing coke off their backs (okay that last one was just me).
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You're calling me pseudo-intellectual when your entire post came off like the pretentious tripe of a second-year drama student? Please. Please get lost and take your anxiety somewhere else. I gave an honest, and highly favorable opinion of The Dark Knight, yet, because it's not a gushing love note you attack me without provocation? Take some Xanax or get a hobby.
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No idea what you are even talking about. And stop yelling.
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i understand that the ferry scene was supposed to show that the citizens of gotham were basically decent human beings. but i mean seriously, who would actually throw the switch on the other ferry? no one on that boat would ever live that down, no matter what. it's silly to think otherwise. besides a batman movie shouldn't be about these little cliche heartwarming moments of decency amongst us. i actually wanted the joker to win, he was the only interesting character in the entire movie (except for dent pre-two face). it's sad but i wanted all those little whiny bitches on the ferry to blow themselves up and for the jokers face to light up like a christmas tree when it did. \
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I think for a film like this, the ending falls into that definition. What I love about this film, and why it is so moving, is its underlying hope,much like in LOTR. The heroes always have a hope in a higher ideal, bigger than themselves, a higher good, that they are willing to sacrifice themselves for. This was no Seven, where the bad guy wins. Look at the ferry scene, the Joker is perplexed, Batman had faith. Yes, Dent falls, but the higher ideal he believed in is so strong and important to Batman, and Gordon who realizes what he is about to do, it is so strong that Batman is willing to sacrifice himself for the ideal everyone saw in Dent, but it is really in the true hero of the film, Batman himself. So, truth is sacrificed for Truth. For a higher ideal. Great script.
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I do not deny that The Dark Knight is a great film. But I maintain that is not a great SUPERHERO film. It lacked that essential larger-than-life moment to qualify as a great superhero film. And you can't appreciate where I'm coming from, TheLastCleric, and want to continue with your aggression, than have a ball and waste a perfectly good Saturday.
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unlike the mention of cats by fox, when rachel mentions 'mask' it doesn't seem weird or out of place. btw, you don't always have to be an ass :-)
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i forgot to mention that rachel being saved scene. how does a fully suited up batman let the joker escape from the top of his own building, when he's right down there with rachel? does the joker somehow fly away like a little birdy? one would assume he'd have to take the elevator down and batman would be waiting. uh...anyone?
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I was just joking. That drunken speech was something I never thought about before, but I think you're right.
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Yeah, no shit. I never gave any thought to that either. Major plot hole.
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parts of TDK seemed like it had been cut all to shit.
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I understand what some of you mean when you say this isn't a great "superhero" movie. Take away the colorful costumes and it's more like James Bond. But then I like Batman more when he's not over the top.
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And give us like 60 or 70 more minutes of additional footage on DVD.
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Jul 19, 2008 3:26:05 PM CDT
would love to hear some feedback on my larger post above.
by thebigwasted
myself, my brother and a few friends all went to the midnight screening on thurs. we all left separately and didn't meet again until last night. all of us pretty much agreed on the flaws of the film yet i haven't seen many of them addressed at all in reviews on this or any other site. what do you guys think? is this a case of us being film school snobs or do any of you agree? like i said, my opinions are listed already in posts above. i don't want to be annoying by posting them again. i hadn't looked forward to a movie with that much anticipation in quite awhile. i've seen tons of midnight and special screenings in my life and never had an experience like the one on thurs night with hundreds of people lining up outside the theatre. all the showings were sold out. there was something special in the air, like i said the joker moments were a once in a lifetime experience but the rest...meh. was just hoping for something truly special throughout. that is all.
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One thing I didn't get.
Why did they get on the boats for ? -
Why would you make a mask that doesn't let you turn your head in the first place?
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Joker is Abu Musab Al - Zarqawi.
The Terrorists Terrorist. -
I think if Nolan plays up the whole batman inspiring other citizens to be heroes ..dick grayson parents are murdered and he makes a costume deciding to fight crime on his own w/o bat mans experience..and bats tries to dissuade him from being a hero but sees so much of himself in this young man that is confused and angry..it could create great conflict
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i'm not trying to find faults. my brain can't help but mull over huge plot holes. one of the downfalls of going to film school and working on scripts/critiquing them is that movies have to be pretty airtight for me to enjoy them. of course it depends on the film. if the filmmaker is trying to present to us a world full of "realism" as nolan is doing in dark knight, then they are held up to a different standard i suppose. and i'm sorry i don't think the joker stole bruce wayne's helicopter though i appreciate the try.
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An excellent crime film that explores the struggle between Gotham's law enforcement, its underworld and the grays in between. But this is not a great Batman film, or a great superhero film. In fact, I would say Batman is almost a secondary character.
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LOL. didn't even to bother type the actor's name, i think it's michael jai white. it's pg13, so we can't have blood and gore. If they showed those it would be r rated, and that's not acceptable to warner bros in a batman movie. it's a given. i read somewhere that when nolan was given free reign for bb, the only conditions given by warner bros was that it should be pg13, should have a female lead (probably for the female audiences to relate to), and something else, i forgot. besides, if there's a guy who could make the darkest pg13 and push its limits, that would be nolan. prestige was pretty dark. nolan gets away with it because he focuses on dark themes and moods and doesn't rely on blood, gore, or profanity, which are what the ratings board looks out for. But i would've preferred to see a bloodied joker after bats beats him in the interrogation room, something like in fight club, where tyler laughs while he's all bloody and being beaten up. that wudv been cool.
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I would have to agree with just about everything you said. You made so many points, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
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...that Nolan and co. are possibly saving for Part 3 - probably one scene or two that show Joker in Arkham. It seemed abrupt that the last time we see Joker is hanging upside-down. Other than that, I do NOT want to see anyone recast as Joker. Heath was note-perfect, there's no need for anyone else to try and fill his shoes. I'd definitely like to see Catwoman in 3. I love Michelle in Batman Returns - she basically put me through puberty with that role - but the character has too much potential not to revisit; and let's face it, she's the only true possible love interest for Batman.
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Dent died (I think). Batman is now the villian, hunted by the cops and has to be Batman forever (not to mention unappreciated).
While the Joker, presumably, gets to plot more evil from inside the assylum.
Really, what didn't the Joker win here? -
I think that's about the perfect way to put it.
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I hope it's not the penguin or catwoman. those are lame. The only one who could be decent is the Riddler, but they have to find somebody scary to play him.
You know who would be good?
Elijah Wood. I think he could be a Riddler that would rival Ledger's Joker. -
He was a master manipulator - the prince of lies. What a brilliant take on the character. The Nolans deserve as much credit for the excellent dialogue they gave him. A few nitpicks: Bale's Batman voice is so silly it sometimes takes you out of the movie; and his suit has never looked as good as in Burton's films, even if he couldn't move his neck at all. Two-Face's story did feel a little rushed by the end, and I found it hard to believe that he'd go after Gordon's *family*. Other than that, this film was nearly perfect. It was immensely entertaining and deadly serious, just what I want from a Batman flick.
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thank you for that. joker could very well have escaped using a rip line (didnt know thats what its called) or some other way, he's too smart to not have some escape plans. maybe he even rappelled (sp?) down the bldg or something. hallmitchell, they got on the boats coz the joker scared them into leaving gotham during the broadcast on tv (it was the bar scene in the daytime packed with people watching tv), and i think he mentions that they shouldnt use a certain road or something, leaving the ferries the only option out of the city. Bricktops hammer, the head-turning thing was supposed to be an in-joke i think, referring to the previous cowls. obviously the one in bb was supposed to be able to make him turn his head (fictionally / in the movie), even though in real life bale couldn't.
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Commissioner? I thank you.
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That if we see the Riddler, it will be that Reese dude.
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I think that's what the cat thing was too, an in joke.
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Happened to turn the TV on the other day right in the middle of a scene between Ledger and Levitt from a movie called (I reckon) 10 THINGS I HATE ABOUT HER and I thought, "Wow. Those two look a lot alike."
Worked as an extra on TDK in the funeral scene and in person I found Maggie Gyllenhaal quite a lovely sight to see. -
Jul 19, 2008 3:55:37 PM CDT
am I the only one who thinks Elijah Wood would make a good villi
by magic rat
I mean, did you see how creepy he was in Sin City?
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ugh...dang.
Elijah Wood for Riddler! -
MAN-BEAR-PIG!!!!!!
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Thoughtful observations, I loved the film, but far from perfect, and I agree with the lack of chemistry with Dawes and other characters, she was a weak character overrall. I thought Ledger was great, but brilliant? Some gushing going on there. Eckheart was just as good, as well as Oldman and Bale. If I had a disappointment, more Batman. Bale had little to work with, but so many characters. It's like this was a set up for another film that focuses on a Batman or Dark Knight with focus, and knows now his mission. He is willing to make the sacrifice. I wish they had brought some references from the first film, to his father, but in some way bring some focus back to Wayne's character. But yes, better chemistry with Dawes would have helped. I agree Two Face's turn seemed a bit rushed, but looking back, it was foreshadowed, not just with his willingness to kill mobsters, but his reliance on himself, on his strength, and as you put it, his rationality. He makes his own luck. Joker, during Den't traumatic state, points out the flaw of the foundation of Dent's philosophy. He points out Dent doesn't really have control, and the coin symbollically confirms it. Dent despairs. He gives up hope, and as has happened to many pure rationalists, lost his sanity. Without a higher ideal, it has led that way to the most logical philosophers in history. But it worked to set up Batman's great sacrifice at the end, and what great performances by Bale and Oldman in this final scenes, as was the final scene in Batman Begins, and great writing. Batman was not focused on as much as villains, but he does turn out to be a true hero, who, unlike Dent, does not lose hope, and is willing to sacrifice himself to confirm his faith. I think the film could have benefited with some escapism, more romanticism. I didn't like the idea of home base being a penthouse. A partially built batcave would have created a better mood. and, why not just choreagraph a good fight scene or two, and cut down on the high speed chases. But overrall, and compared to other crap out there, great film.
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I'm outta here. I've decided that the Joker is right and "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules." Check out the list of movies on the left. http://joox.net/. Later. *Piracy, it's a crime*
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Joker didn't win in the Ferry scene, at least his philophy didn't win. Strategically, he does distract Batman. But, Joke would have won if Batman was unwilling to make the sacrifice at the end. In the eyes of the public, he's the bad guy. In truth, he is still the good guy, and allows him to be a more powerful ally on the side of good, kind of levels him with the power they were describing Joker had throughout the film: no rules. But as I posted above, although Dent falls, a higher ideal wins, Batman and Gordon do not lose faith in what Dent originally preached, otherwise they wouldn't have been willing to hide what truly happened with Dent. Dent's ideal didn't fail, Dent did. The ideal is now represented in the Dark Knight. Joker loses.
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...like some super-genius Arkham escapee who wants to match wits with the Dark Knight for the pure challenge, like a chess match. Meanwhile, Bats is busy chasing Cat tail around Gotham...
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Yes, the ferry scene was weak. I think they should have touched on the criminal boat also being filled with at least half of gotham's finest and correction officers, so it's not literally a boat full of assholes. The whole voting part should have been cut and it should have been more of a mystery to us what was going on in the boats. I can only watch Deebo in friday.
I don't get why so many people have a problem with Joker getting out of the apartment. How the fuck did he get in?? POLICE ESCORT. Did we really need another scene showing the cops walking him out?
I don't believe Two Face is dead, I'm on the "he's locked away in a basement at arkham" crowd.
I can buy the whole cell phone thing, I'm not a fucking scientist though, so forgive me. I have watched Mythbusters though, and they proved the whole grappling/climbing gun cannot work with current technology. So, if you're willing to buy into that, why not buy the cell phone thing? -
Overall: Absolutely loved it! An absolute ton of great things happened so I give it an overall A- as I do have some real reservations.
The Great: Ledger’s Joker could not have been done better, interwoven story/script is beautifully done w/ real character development, Harvey/2Face character evolution, & the tragedy & struggles of Batman/Bruce Wayne losing people close to him w/ the world spiraling out of control. This movie pushed buttons inside of me making the Joker a real character who is feared, hated and respected all at once. Bat-vision goggles + Sonar = Sweet!!
The Good: Wayne Enterprises being used as a technology & business wing for his Batman escapades. Was never a fan of the Tumbler so I am glad they will have to replace it and hopefully w/ something more traditional. The bat-pod was awesome and that little pod/trailer flip trick could not have been cooler.
The Bad: Oddly enough not enough CGI where it could have been well placed. Too many action related sequences during the day (hospital explosion, Dent-Maroni in car etc). No mention of Arkham, the narrows, or the rail system to differentiate it from Chicago itself or make it feel like the same city from BB. The action sequences were better but still a bit tight…overall a big improvement from BB but could be better in this regard. No Wayne Manor, no Batcave,
The Ugly: The bat suit…clunky, jointed, & needs to be darker. Minus the nipples the BF suit was the best. Simply making a suit out of an advanced material developed @ Wayne Enterprises will account for it being dog/bullet/cat proof etc. No need for armor IMHO. Also, a reality based Batman will always face the dilemma of moving the character forward in a world where a well placed road block could expose his identity & end his career in crime fighting. Not to mention that the villains in Batman who dress up i.e. Catwoman will have a hard time working here seemingly limited the stories told and choices made of who makes the cut. In this reality there will be no Bat-Wing as far as I can see and to me that’s just not right.
The Future: Very hard to see who they will integrate into Nolan’s reality. I humbly predict the Penguin as a rich business man who attacks Wayne Enterprises and a story line evolving from this point forward. Personally would like to see Bane as Batman needs a nemesis who can confront him physically. I do however foresee the Joker being recast and him having had a plot to escape from Arkham where he most certainly will wind up. 2Face will be back too in some form as I don’t believe he’s dead but rather locked up in a private facility owned by Wayne where he is just stewing to get revenge.
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So Catwoman won't work because she's a villain who has to dress up? So is Batman the only in this world who is allowed to run around in a dorky black creature-inspired suit?
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She's a 'professional' cat burglar dressed in all black - not necessarily a latex suit, just something sleek and black. And then all she needs is something to conceal her identity - maybe a Robin-style mask? Nah, that would probably just lead to some Freudian-style awkwardness for fanboys. Whoever suggested Riddler + Catwoman for the next film, with Riddler an escaped Arkham inmate who wants to play a deadly game of chess with Batman, while Bats is off chasing Cat tail...that sounds brilliant. Bravo.
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Jul 19, 2008 4:34:14 PM CDT
Was anyone else dissappointed that there was no Joker gas????
by the dum guy
I thought that we'd get to see some, esp. in the beginning where the Joker puts the gas grenade in mouth of the bank manager.
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i liked the flass interrogation in BB but the one in tdk was just kickass brutal. Btw, where the hell was Flass? he was an ok character. and nolan should have at least shown a glimpse of the railway system. the narrows and arkham and wayne manor were understandable coz they werent part of the story, but the railway system is in the middle of the city.
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Maybe they didn't bother rebuilding the monorail, since it was crappy (over twenty years old) and alot of it got blown up.
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But I guess the Bat Condo was OK...
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are probably the only two great comic book movies, the rest feel like jokes in comparison now.
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I posted first about it not being a perfect movie and got nothing but shit for it. Luckily a good chunk of you feel the same way as I do. Still a good flick, would've been perfect if Nolan ended things with the birth of Two Face and the hospital blowing up.
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am i the only one who thinks he might be clayface. He is a better actor than a bitpart would warrent. so are they setting him up for a part in a sequel? Clayface was an actor AMH was a tv personality. Am i alone here?
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you forgot batman begins. unless you intentionally left it out, in which case i disagree. id say batman begins is the best comic book movie and tdk is one of the best movies ever.
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Incredible Hulk: A Iron Man: A The Dark Knight: B+ Wanted: B Hellboy 2: B
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i don't think any movie can be "perfect" perfect. I absolutely love BB and TDK but I can find faults and nitpick a few things. No matter how much i love a movie, actor, or director, i can always nitpick for fun but it doesnt make me love it any less.
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Jul 19, 2008 5:04:02 PM CDT
In my YEARS as a talkbacker, I've never said this of a genre fil
by industrykiller!
Fucking masterpiece. I think we can say, INARGUABLY, that more than any other sequel in history this one is most obviously better than it's predecessor. now that's not cheapening Empire Strikes Back and the Godfather Part II, which are still both better films than TDK, but as far as a jump in quality over it's predecessor this is ridiculous. I don't think it can even be questioned that it's the best superhero film of all time or that Ledger gives one of the most incredible villain turns in fim history. I really don't get that people didn't see how much better the action was directed in this. With the exception of maybe the final sequence in the mid construction high rise I never once had trouble discerning what was happening in front of me. I would compare the transition to Paul Greengrasses improvement in Bourne Ultimatum over his mediocre camera in Supremecy. I feel the same exact way about TDK over Begins. There just was not a single thing that Nolan didn't improve. The feel of Gotham City (although I hope he goes even further with it's personality next time), the villains, Batmans actual detective work, all perfect. I think Nolan has dropped the gauntlet for superhero films in two distinct ways. First of all his handling of the villains, which arent just limited to some scheme of the week horseshit. Never again can they pull some "Magneto Mutant Device" or "Doc Ock building a silly machine" crap. By figuring out who these villains are and what they are fundamentaly after he's totally banished these lesser interpretations and actually given life to villains who have motivations to appear in future films. Secondly is the script, a problem most superhero scripts have is balancing all the characters who need to appear to appease fans. Nolan, who proved that most of the problem with Begins was the horrible David Goyer, does alot of plate spinning never letting any character peter out without getting their moment to shine. Forget the Raimi's, Singers, Steven Johnsons *shudders*, or Tim Story's of the world even exist, and good riddance to them.
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Psycho, Citizen Kane, Jaws, Carpenter's Thing, Road Warrior, just off the top of my head... I know what you mean, and the first two hours WERE perfect, but the ferry scene just brought the movie to a screeching halt and the Venomfication of Two Face certainly didn't help.
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Incredible Hulk: A- Iron Man: B+ The Dark Knight: A+ Wanted & Hellboy 2: Don't care
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I don't see it staying there for long, but I can't remember the last film that took the top spot by such a large margin.
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Nolan has said several times that he's not even sure if he's going to do a third. He's said stuff like the third is never as good. Oldman tried to get out of even doing a second one. Only Bale is totally on board for a 3rd.
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First of all half of what made the Venom thing suck was how horribly miscast Topher Grace was and how he turned Eddie Brock into a smug used car salesman. Harvey Dent was played BRILLIANTLY by Aaron Eckhart and cast perfectly. Moreover his place in the story was as solid and necessary as any other character. The only thinkg wrong with Two Face is him going after Gordons family did feel a bit forced. If anything he should have gone after Batman, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense given how the only reason he was there in the first place was because of his unshakable trust in Batman. It also gives him further motivation to enter the catalogue of Batmans rogues gallery as a staple.
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ho.ly.shit. first time i checked it was number 4, this morning 3, and now 1. goddamn this movie's on fire. NOLAN IS A GOD DIRECTOR! even if it's a temporary thing thats still pretty fucking amazing. goddamn im so happy for nolan, bale, and co.
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you have nothing to threaten me with.
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I gotta disagree with once again. TDK clearly represented man's existential struggle to find meaning. The Joker represented chaos and nihilism while Batman represented order, hope and personal responsibility and yet they were still two sides of the same coin kind of like two-face. Two obsessive neutrotics probably shaped by one significant event in their lives.
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I admit that TDK was more nuanced than SM3, but the character of Eddie Brock was established well (even if it wasn't EXACTLY like the comics) and you can't tell me that the church scene by itself wasn't great. The final 20 min. of Two Face's revenge felt rushed and wasn't in tune with the methodically paced first two hours or so, exactly like Raimi's movie where Venom just became a tag team wrestler. Also what cheesed me off the most was that Two Face a completely one dimensional character. I mean he's TWO Face for fuck's sakes, it should at the very least be TWO dimensional. He wasn't torn between his "good" half or "bad" half, he just flipped a coin and that was that...
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I am burned out on sueprhero/comic book movies. It's just getting to the point where they are way too much. They are over-produced and under-scripted with loads of implausibilities (and yes, I know that comic books are supposed to be implausible -- but to a certain extent.) THE DARK KNIGHT is a good film but has several flaws which most of the TBers seem to be overlooking. Is it my imagination or did they try to jam pack enough plot for 3 movies into one? You have at least six different storylines converging at once and not enough time to flesh all of it out. I see that as bombastic and impossible. The tone of the movie, like BATMAN BEGINS is right on the money -- the music, cinematography and production design are all top notch. The actors are all good and Ledger's Joker buries the Nicholson version. But did anyone stop to say, how did Bruce Wayne create a device with 300 screens that can tap into 30 million cell phones and still have the time to lead a dual lifestyle? Billions of dollars does not create billions of minutes -- and if he has so much money why not buy the entire city and start from scratch if he wants to save it so bad? It seems like he is trying to do the same thing in a much harder way. The movie goes on for far too long (at least 40 minutes could have been cut and perhaps three plotlines). This is not great filmmaking -- this is geek filmmaking and the geeks are going to love it. I cannot say I wasn't entertained, but I think superhero/comic films are gonna hit a wall now. It's just too much already. It's time to get back to basics. There is no excuse for movies having to cost this much in order to thrill audiences and make gobs of money back. People are going to probably hate me for my opinion here but I just think 5 mega-superhero movies in less that three months is overkill. THE DARK KNIGHT is gonna make a weekend and daily records, but will it last? Best picture, come on people, even JAWS didn't win best picture and that's as damn near perfect as a movie can get.
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AND I CANT WAIT. TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE THIS MOVIE. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.
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completely one dimensional character
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could have been longer. I want 3 hours!!!!!!!!
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I agree. If the last third of the film had been fully fleshed out, it would've worked, but everything past the ferry scene felt like it was crammed in there and lacked the polish of the first two hours.
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Hey man... THANK YOU. I couldn't agree more. While all the hype surrounding TDK had already rendered it completely impossible for it to live up to my expectations, Rambo slipped right in under the radar and Stallone gave us a movie that achieved a level of meaning and seriousness and realism no Rambo film had quite been able to accomplish. Don't get me wrong. TDK was a very good comic book flick. But for christ's sake, cut the bullshit. The only thing that lived up to the hype - and goddamn did it ever live up to it - was Ledger's performance. Without it, it'd just have been another Batman movie. It did raise the bar.
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Jul 19, 2008 5:44:39 PM CDT
The Dark Knight is the best Superhero movie ever made...
by leafar the lost
...and the best movie (so far) of 2008. As far as I am concerned, Heath Ledger's Joker cannot be replaced. He was that good. The next Batman movie will have Catwoman in it. There is no doubt about it. Aaron Eckhart would be the prefect Captain America. I am sure some asshole agent or studio-head in Hollywood is working on it as I type. We will see an Avengers movie before a Justice eague movie...who will play Wonder Woman...etc...
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It took me two viewings to realize this... I musta blinked the first time when they showed him sitting on top of it... Joker goes into his rant and lights it on fire... They dont show it but he burns him ALIVE... Good lord, I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!! Easily the most violent PG-13 movie ever...
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Too many characters. Too long. Too muddied. Too many people we didn't care about getting too much screen time. Who cares about Harvey Dent anyway? What a bland character. I actually fell asleep at the 90 minute mark in this movie.
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Laser Pants said:"I wish this movie got an R, even hard-R, because I really wanted to see The Joker graphically mutilate the various people he murdered. The part where he goes on about the "why so serious?" especially, where he has his knife in the guys mouth."**** What are you, 14, 15?
You're missing the entire big-shebang brilliance of the film. then. Violence is scarier, more intimidating, when implied, from NOT showing all that graphic crap, which any idiot in horror films can and does do all the time, which make them into...cartoons, pandering puss-product. This is in an entirely different class of filmmaking.
You want that other stuff, go see Rob Zombie's movies or something like that. I'd say junk like the 'Saw' movies, too, but they look like moron fodder, so I'll never get near them. -
....and gave them a nice trust fund so they'd never have to work a day in their lives. That's how good this movie was.
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I love it when fanboys slam each other in talkbacks.
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Though I don't agree, geraldbeans, I have to admit I love finally seeing an extreme negative opinion on the movie.
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Jul 19, 2008 5:54:20 PM CDT
Tyler Durden, to say that Brock is as well done as Dent
by industrykiller!
is absolute insanity. Eddie Brocks existence was established sure, but he was nothing more than a comic bookey two dimensional used car salesman of a character. Eckharts portrayal of Dent would be award winning in a perfect world. And because of that his fall and rebirth as a villain is far less interesting and nuanced as Dents. He didn't have ALOT to do as Two Face but what was there was wrapped up and established nicely in the arc of the story itself. Do I think it's perfect? No. I would say it is a bit quick but not necessarily rushed. It feels a fuckload more organic and earned than anything in SM3, which is almost as bad as batman and Robin as a film. With that said I hope to god the character isn't really dead because that would be a complete waste.
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would have made it a better movie
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Has little to do with the movie itself, and more to do with the hype surrounding it. You got guys on here saying shit that would make a sailor blush... "This movie gently, lovingly dicked my soft taint and then chili dogged my massive man-tits..." etc, etc, etc. I mean, do you even want to fucking know someone who says things like that? Not only is it unnecessarily vulgar, unfunny, and stupid, it actually subtracted a lot of percentage points from my enjoyment of the flick
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I want to see a horror film with Batman, ala Killer Croc going canabalistic on innocent civilians while Man-Bat is feeding on criminals. And, maybe throw in the Scarecrow for good measure.
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Brock was a secondary character. Dent was a major mover and shaker in the plot. That's why it makes me pissed off. Brock was a second string character who became a major villain. Dent is a major character who became a second string villain. Dent is essentially the "soul" of the movie. By not fully developing his turn to evil and having him reduced to a one dimensional villain, Nolan dropped the ball big time.
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After Zodiac...crime drama, that'd be awesome
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Jul 19, 2008 6:11:08 PM CDT
"Insanity is like gravity... All you need is a little push..."
by mrhazard
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Joseph Gordon Levitt
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....the language; lots of fucks, etc.
Does R make a better movie? Depends. In his case, I say no. What, so the Joker can say fuck and you can see a hood's brainpan skewered by a writing implement. This is adolescent talk, truly. And I liked (well, better to say was engaged by) the Departed, by the way. I just don't think an R-rating with material such as more graphic scenes and loads of expletives would make this film a better film -
Mmmm hmmm...so much for this realism thing, right? Thanks for making my point that this particular incarnation of Batman makes *HIM* and anyone else in costume seem a bit out of place. All I am saying is that it creates a bit of a dilemma and will eventually require that the viewer further suspend reality and in some ways it will feel more "campy". This is innevitable. I continue to be amused as to how many "dorky" things ppl who love the "realism" of BB/TDK are willing to accept. Thanks for helping me make the point...
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I think ur wrong.
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there I said it, probably one of Tim Burton's best movies in general. Although I still have yet to see the "perfect" Batman film.
ps - why can't they get Superman right?? -
Selina Kyle was always written as Batman's female equal- morally ambiguous thief- but his equal never the less. Therefore, you don't want to cast a young girl like Megan Fox but close to Christian Bales' age. The dream actress- to me at least- would be Angelina Jolie but I doubt she would do another role similar to her character in "Wanted." I think the underrated and overlooked Jolene Blalock would be a good choice- check out her mask scene in "Slow Burn."
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Hey, man. I didn't say go fuck your auntie to you. But yeah, I read your post. If we're supposed to be thinking here, let's think about the fucking founders idea of freedom and liberty, and, hey-hey, security.'He who trades freedom for security is neither free nor secure.' - The Lefty Liberal, Benjamin Fucking Franklin.My point about your post was, that given its otherwise thoughtful approach, you were being a condescending prick. Like I give a rat's ballsack about what you think about my posts.Nice, how you didn't mention how your whole 'This movie = 9/11 political bullshit' scenario falls apart when Batman doesn't give the Joker the fitting end the bastard deserves, eh? Yeah, I told you man, if it works, it works. But in real life, torture for pre-emptive means DOESN'T WORK. According to the CIA.
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Certainly the best superhero movie. I loved every minute of it. And it was actually very daring to NOT blow up one of the ferrys. I thought that would have been an easy (and predictable) choice for the filmmakers. I never expected the citizens (and the criminals, for that matter) to do the right thing... that really shocked me.
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Why not steal the title from what would've been the 3rd (5th total) of Joel's 'nipple-disco'. Afterall, they did manage to beat everyone's expectations. Regardless of that, it does fit in with the theme.. this would be his redemption movie. However, I doubt Redemption being in the title of any Batman movie. Anyway, I see Catwoman coming next as both the female necessity and one of the villians. Sadly, it will have to be a Bruce falls for Selena, while Batman falls for Catwoman story because there really isn't many other ways to spin it. The Riddler is the next choice for carrying villian, I think. Have some type of murder mystery with the Riddler to ultimately get the public back on his side. Which leads to the 4th movie, what happens when a public figure falls (again?) -- and introduces Bane.
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Easily, it had plot, character development, action! It was deep and complicated. It moved me to tears. Anyone else notice that sound that keeps getting louder as the Joker gets more and more demented? I was shocked and freaked out during this movie. The batcycle chase sequence is the best action scene in any movie this year! I had no idea, without spoiling here, that the batcycle came from there? Mindblowing moment!
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And was apparently about twenty years before it's time. Some of it's themes would fit nicely into future instalments of these Batman movies. The idea of what it is like when the whole world starts becoming a very dark place and how that effects a city like Gotham would be interesting to see. I would then welcome (and go crazy to actually see it) a brief confrontation between Sups and Batman as they did in the graphic novel. I have to say that I would be fascinated to see Nolan write lines for Superman to speak on film. Just to see his take on the character.
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"Seems to me that a lot of motherfuckers who view Playstations and Starbucks and abortions and Mapplethorpe art as "essential" liberties..." I can't think of a single state interest that would either justify, or require, restricting any of the things that you list. Not one. And by the way, Mohammed might have married a pre-teen, but Abraham [you know who Abraham is, right] owned slaves and raped them. And when one of his slaves ran away so she wouldn't get raped, Yahweh sent an angel to catch her and bring her back so Abraham could rape her. That's the Hebrew god and the Judeo-Christian moral code for ya right there.
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I'd love to see nolan's take on the catwoman. After watching the brave one last night I could really picture her as a victim of a savage rape or beating, taking matters into her own hands and executing her own style of vigilante justice throughout gotham. Killing criminals outright and actually cleaning up the city, gaining support from the citizens of Gotham while Batman is on the run and seen as the outcast.
The underlying conflict inside bruce would be his temptation and seduction by the catwoman into that type of justice. Assuming he killed Two-Face, he would have gotten a taste of how easy it is to just eliminate a problem by kiling them and the always present love story between batman and catwoman would be more of a seduction into her ethics than a sexual or traditional love story.
I think batman as a character wasn't as developed in TDK and there's no way they could top the epicness of it in another movie, I think doing it this way, a more personal story of conflict within batman himself would be the way to go. -
the political themes are all over this film. the most interesting for me is the torture scenes... with regular criminals who just want what they don't want to work for, it works. but with the joker, the terrorist, he lied.
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but Catwoman without a mask. she's just a thief who gets under batman's skin. maybe make her a thief who gives to charity or some shit... make her someone batman has trouble busting.
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For not making a bunch of idiotic, crude gushy remarks involving sex acts about what this movie "did to him", are fucking idiots. Maybe Harry is being objective. Maybe, just maybe, he really didn't think it was all that. Maybe he actually saw the movie's many faults.
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I'm seeing this again tomorrow, and for chrst sakes STOP referring to the Joker as "Joke" WTF? That makes my brain hurt. Exceptional film, best movie of the year.
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they could have a popular guy (riddler/penguin) controlling some less popular characters in some grand scheme. That could give deadshot, black mask, zsaz, or any other minor bad guy a shot.
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the next villian for Batman.Uh, nevermind. I forgot. Chuck cannot be beat.
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And I say that because he has been portrayed by all actors playing him as someone whose demeanor is similar to the Jokers derangement. It would allow the next film to keep the same vibe should they reinvent the Riddler as they did the Joker (visually, mostly). Of course he wouldn't wear a Matthew Lesko outfit and giggle constantly like an idiot. He would be a psychotic, sadistic fuck not unlike the joker who enjoys toying with law enforcement with brilliantly concocted puzzle-schemes that result in a lot of losses of life. Daniel Day-Lewis or Johnny Depp, accept no substitutes.
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the short scene with Scarecrow. I hope that if a third movie is made that they include other villians in the same capacity. Short and sweet. You have to admit that Batman the comic has some cool villians but would translate not that well in the movies.
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That's how these new Batman movie operate. It's all about realism. The Riddler in Nolan's Batman is a puzzled man. His life has been an on going battle of solving riddles in order to escape the maze that is his life. He play board games as a kid. He got picked on by question marks as a kid.
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It's annoying to see people play "let's pick out all the flaws" like they're some sort of transcendent movie critic that sees things the way they really are. Of course there's things that could have been done better, and some of those things are subjective. But the main thing here is this was one ambitious MF'ing flick, and the shit that works...IS SPECTACULAR. Plus Heath Ledger totally punked all the "OMFG IT NEEDS TO BE CRISPEN GLOVER" idiots in the worst way. He stole the role in a way that's going to put a damper on any further attempt at the character in the future.
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The name of the character is ALEX DELARGE, or LITTLE ALEX. Not a big thing, but it bothered me.
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It SHOWED that crazies are taking over for the mob and gangbangers. Here's Jonathan Crane, former state psychologist who's now pushing laced dope on the streets. For no other reason than psychotic fun and a little scratch. People seem to think it was meaningless to have him, but there was a purpose. Batman is creating more problems than he can ever cure, but that will always escape him. Because he's fucking crazy himself.
This is why I think Two Face is alive. Batman thinks by keeping him alive and trying to help him, while portraying him as dead will help the city & Harvey, but if Two Face escapes it will cause even more chaos for Gotham. -
Would be great to see him face off again against Batman.
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What happened to the guy who worked for Wayne Enterprises that was going to tell the world who Batman is?
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Here is hoping Two Face is not Darth Maul. Both kicked butt, yet we only got a small taste and then they were killed off. Let's hope Nolan didn't pull a Lucas, and brings back Two-Face. I don't think Nolan will revist Joker in the next film. He may have until the untimely death of Heath and no he needs a plan B. I don't think Two-Face can carry a file on his own so there needs to be another villian. Riddler would make sense but then we are back to Two-Face and Riddle ala Shumaker though it would be cool to see Nolan throttle Shuey with the same characters. I could see Catwoman since we need a new female lead, but on the heals of Batman Returns and Halle's Catwoman bomb, I am not sure we need another one. I hope Two-Face is back and I would love to see Riddler. Whatever happens I am sure Nolan will deliver a bad ass film.
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Two-face is fucking dead. Joker was intended to be the primary bad guy in the next one. Stop fantasizing.
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she was doing if she was offered that role.
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When this movie was being prepped, everyone was saying that no one could replace Jack Nicholson and dissed Heath Ledger as Nolan's choice for the role. With a third Nolan Batman movie maybe on the way, everyone is saying Ledger cannot be replaced. I am a bit divided on this... I think it would be interesting to have the Joker continue in the series but at the same time, it's hard to imagine anyone equaling Ledger. I am actually really pissed at Heath Ledger for ODing... and robbing of us such a great actor (yes, I'm selfish). It's pretty clear to me that Two Face is DEAD at the end and Nolan intended to bring back the Joker. What happens now is anyone's guess...
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If that's true (and it's not) then that was the single most underwhelming death scene in any comic book movie ever made. If you really believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.
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She did? She'd be perfect for the role, don't get me wrong, but I didn't know she was so outspokenly Sean Young about it.
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Nigga please. I don't care how underwhelming you thought it was, it was a death scene. And you could tell they tried to make it affecting. Stop being such a fucking geek.
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Did you ever stop to think that his voice is just as much of a disguise as his mask? The only real flaw I spotted in the movie was didn't the mob bosses legs go CRUNCH when Batman dropped him off the building just to show him walking 20 minutes later? Other than that, DAMN EXCELLENT MOVIE! Ledger was incredible. No one can do The Joker now. He owns that role. I'm with Harry thinking Two-Face isn't dead and we will see him again. Don't even wanna speculate on the next movie though, this one is so fucking good, I doubt it can be topped. (Even if they brought in Superman to fight Batman) I think you are right NiceGuyEddie19. I think that the intention was for Two-Face to be dead and the Joker be in the next one. Things changed and now I can see them saying Dent lived.
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Nolan, as of now, has no plans to make a third film. So, it's written open ended, but this could be the last one he does. He didn't write this as a trilogy, he wrote it as one really good movie. It rocks, and Two Face was open ended...but there's no plan, or hints like people are saying.
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the next one open up with Joker's trial where he is declared insane. Maybe Two Face could make his grand appearance in the opening by busting him out for some reason. Bruce Wayne is in the court's audience watching the trial so there is nothing he can do. What about Riddler and Joker competing to really get under Batman's skin?
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Please yoself. It was a red herring designed to fool chumps, chump. I guess we'll find out in part 3, but read between the lines a little bit. I bet you thought Gordon was really dead too.
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Yay Dark Knight and everything, but why is everyone suddenly shitting on Batman Begins. Harry makes Batman Begins out to be some sort of soulless vehicle for merchandise here, when his own review of the movie from 2005 was incredibly positive. What the hell? I thought everyone loved Batman Begins (deservedly so). What happened?
The Dark Knight is great, but that doesn't mean we have to belittle Batman Begins' amazing achievments. -
...what X2 did to X-Men 1. It's not that Begins sucked, it's just not as good in comparison to Dark Knight. But it's still the (close) second best Batman movie put to film.
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I guess I am in the minority on this (just as I think the first GODFATHER is far superior to PART II). I mean, TDK is great but for me, it lacks the clarity of theme that BB had... I know many enjoy the moral complexity, as do I, but I still think BB is a more cohesive film as whole... it has a beginning, middle and end. TDK, for all its strengths, is all middle...
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At least that's what he said... Still, there's no chance in hell the next one will be as good as this... They might as well just stop now (even tho they wont... too much MORE money to be made)...
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I don't have a problem with someone liking The Dark Knight more than Batman Begins, but unlike with Sipder-Man 1 and 2 and X-Men 1 and 2, I don't think the two are so far apart in terms of quality. I don't know, it'll be easier to put in perspective once the trilogy is finished.
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The way the Joker's henchmen got to the bank, it was a zip line, not a rip line...just so you know.
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I haven't actually seen it since it first came out, but I remember walking out of X-2 and feeling like it was one of the best comic book movies ever made. Maybe I was still high off the adrenaline rush of seeing Wolvie in full 'beserker rage' mode when the government agents attacked the school; but I seem to remember the general consensus among fanboys was that it was indeed one of the best. Since there seems to be so much retroactive hate for Burton's Bat flicks now, I'm wondering: what's the retcon fanboy take on X-2? Do we all officially hate it now, or did X-Men 3 just suck so bad that we've been spurned by all things X? For what it's worth, here's my ranking for the best superhero flicks since 1998, in order of descending greatness: The Dark Knight, X-2, Spider-Man 1, and Iron Man.
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Actually, I'm not a chump, I'm a realist. You said without realizing it that Nolan did a piss poor job on Harvey Dent's death scene, and that the creators are idiots for killing off Two-face. But you said it, nonetheless. You, sir, are an incurable mark and a geek of the highest order.
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As MrHazard said, Bale will only do it if Nolan does, but I believe all the major players are signed o for 3 films. So I expect 1 more and then they all bale (pun intended). However, it is possible Bale signed on for the Terminator trilogy knowing that TDK was his last Batman flick.
Here is hoping Nolan and Bale do one more, because if they don't, with the amount of $$$ this movie is bringing in Warner Bros. will do another Batman with or without Nolan and Bale and we'll get stuck with a 2nd rate director and actor. -
i thought it was self important, the action sucked, the villians were boring as hell, the train thing stupid. i hated it the first time i saw it though, not after i saw dark knight...which i love.
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Dark Knight was the second best Batman film ever!
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...gives the edge to Dark Knight. Half of a good superhero story is the villain, and the Ra's/Scarecrow team up just wasn't as good as Two Face/Joker. Also, I don't think I have to convince anyone that Gyllenhaal was better than Mrs. Xenu. Everything else is just the added experience of having an established universe in which to play with the characters, and being able to learn from the mistakes of the first movie. I think the Empire Strikes Back comparisons are the most apt, since that was basically the same kind of "all middle" story with the dark ending. But ESB being so good doesn't detract from ANH, it just built on it.
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although he doesn't really show up until the end but I find his reasoning fascinating in that it is generally how people justify their evil deeds (they think they're doing good) and the conversation between he and Wayne before the mansion is burned down is a fantastic scene. BEGINS is a more philosophical and heady film than TDK... I think it's reasonable that someone could like one but the other, hate both or love both. The villains of BEGINS don't get enough credit... as Roger Ebert said, there is "a whole population of villains" in BEGINS. I particularly loved the bad cop partner of Gordon (don't know the actor's name, sorry)...he was great and no one even mentions him in discussion of the film. Oh, well.
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Two face isn't dead, I never said he was, we're all fucking geeks here the only difference is some of us can read between the lines. Ok, NOW fuck off.
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I can't believe nobody is mentioning how much better the score to this movie is compared to Begins. It really sets the tone for the entire movie.
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actually like X-1? Marvel has some shit movies out there.
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...will doom the third movie. Franchise over - again.
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Two Face is dead, Heath Ledger is dead, and yeah, ok... Everybody here is a geek. But if any of you think that Nolan doesn't intend to make a third one after all this money coming his way, the studio's way, that it wasn't planned that way from the beginning and that Ledger's death complicates matters, well, I'm sorry, but you're fucked in the head.
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but TDK is far superior... More dramatic, darker, more violent, tragic, better action, etc... And seriously, the greatest scene of ANY Batman/superhero movie HAS to be the Joker interrogation sequence... That and the hospital bombing scene... And the pencil trick... The fact that they kill the romantic lead... The scene where Two-Face is threatening Gordon's family with a gun telling him to lie to his wife and child and tell them everything is going to be alright when it's not... You just don't see this type of disturbing violence in PG-13 movies!!! Sorry, I just dont see how Batman Begins is better than this...
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This was VERY well written. Props to nolan and his brother. You can usually figure out how a movie is going to end, who will get saved and how. Usually pretty black and white. LOTS of shades of gray here!. QUALITY STORY TELLING. I can respect someone genuinely not liking the film but to call this shitty film making shows zero critical insight! The haters are generally hacks. I read a good deal of crying about what the film 'isn't' rather than critiques on what it is or fails to do. "Wa Wa Wa...it's not the film I wanted therefore it sucks." Please.
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Neither criticism or praise, just an observation. This film was far too violent, intense and disturbing to rated PG-13. There were some tweens (maybe 11 or 12) in the showing I attending and they were escorted out halfway through in tears... AND I don't necessarily think something being "darker" automatically makes it better.
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I dont know THAT much about Nolan but I get the feeling he doesn't want to make Batman movies his whole life... His wife produced this like all of the movies he directs... I'm guessing he can pretty much write his ticket and do whatever he wants after this... Look at James Cameron... Is he still doing Terminator movies??? No... Speaking of which, Bale doesn't need this either if the Terminator franchise continues after T4... I also dont think Bale wants to be Batman forever as well, so it's not 100% given THEY will be back for the inevitable 3rd movie...
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Listen, NGE... what are we arguing about, again? Lemme see if I can figure this out... Ledger is dead in real life, so that means that the fictional character of Two Face (played by still-above-dirt Eckhart) died in the movie from a 1 story fall, which means that another sequel is inevitable, despite... uh, whatever you think I said that contradicted that... and so I'm fucked in the head. OK, well you may have a point there, but I'm not sure what it is, so maybe I am fucked in the head. Sorry I was so mean to you, will you show me to the first aid tent? My insides hurt. (ok, because I know you're not good with subtext... I agree with you, a third installment is a sure thing at this point, and since Nolan has stated he thought it was a mistake to kill the Joker in '89, I doubt very much he intended to kill off Dent in this movie, as Dent would be a good character to use in a third movie, kinda like he used Scarecrow in this one, especially since Nolan won't be able to bring back Ledger's Joker. Does that make sense? Sorry for telling you to fuck off, that was kinda harsh, but man, this is talkback, so I think we have an understanding, ok NGE? Thanks.)
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...is awesome, simply for the fact that these little wuss children are going to be emotionally scarred for weeks by a COMIC BOOK movie.
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Said it before, but this is by far the darkest, most violent, most disturbing PG-13 movie I can remember. If anybody else can name a darker one, please mention one... If I had young kids, I dont know if I would take them to see this. I'd take them to a Rated R slasher movie before this. Bottom line, this is not a children's film but that's REALLY what this particular genre needed. A mature, serious film. And this is probably as serious of a superhero movie we will ever get. It doesn't even feel right CALLING it a superhero movie. It's really much more than that. And that's why its so good... AND the darker, the better!!! I'm a sick bastard like that I guess...
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They were probably in tears because they were being escorted out. I'd cry if someone made me leave during that movie, that or i would kill em.
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DC already has Superman 78 and TDK as their gold standard, Marvel came closest with Iron Man and even that isn't near that caliber. While the rest of theirs, The Spiderman movies are mopey cryfests with the mannequin Tobey and snaggletooth, the XMen movies are S&M orgies, downright Shumakerian. Surprised Singer didn't add nipples to the suits or on Superman's costume. Speaking of Singerman Returns, he actually went and gayified the superman costume more, the red underwear is situated at ass-crack level and the whole thing revolves so much arond the pronounced crotch area. cripes wth was everyone thinking.
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...got to see the little white lenses in Batman's cowl. Hallelujah!
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only one bad choice in this movie, as far as I can tell. Or a not-so-good choice from Nolan: the interrogation scene should be reversed, with Gordon facing the Joker, lights on, leaves room, lights go off, Batman appears, monologue and beating ensues. In the dark. Of course, they would not be able to show the shard of glass The Joker used to take his keeper hostage. But it would be great to have people wondering HOW THE HELL DID HE GET INTO THE ROOM???, it would have been much scarier - even for The Joker.
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The only way this film could have been better was if it had ended with *spoiler, duh* Dent in the hospital bed, pissed and charred, and the joker getting away with his head out the window. A great feel bad ending ala Empire *end spoiler*. Also, the CGI burn FX on Harvey gave me a bad Mummy flashback. I half expected Brendan Frasier to come busting in, screaming about Im Ho Tep. So basically chop off the last 20 mins, and save Dos Face for Batman Numero Tres. RIP HL
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the burn idea was great, but they could have done a better job with make up and just cg'd the eye. it looked crap. cg is crap.
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I loved the portrayal of Harvey Dent/Two-Face in this film, but I totally agree with you, the CGI used for Two-Face was too similar to the kind of stuff we've seen in The Mummy. They should have done it all prosthetics/make-up. That said, I loved his teeth.
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You loved his teeth because there were his teeth. Not stupid cgi teeth...or maybe they were really good cgi teeth. In that case my mistake.
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I'm thinkin javier bardem as the riddler and guy pearce for the joker with a Mr. freeze setup at the end. no fucking arnold scwarzenazi though. someone like ben kingsley or edward norton. shit even leo if they could get him for riddler or freeze. the only thing that would ruin it would be robin, fuck robin i never want to see him in this adaptation. morgan freeman is robinesque enough for me.
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does not mean I wanted it to be even MORE violent and disturbing. In fact, I would have preferred the opposite. This has got to be the most bleak and oppressive blockbuster since THE EXORCIST. I don't any blood or death, thank you very much. As much as I like TDK (despite its flaws), I do have one question for Christopher Nolan: Why so serious? (sorry, I couldn't help it)
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After watching a second time, Lau is all duct tape gagged when he's burned alive, so that explains why you can't hear him screaming. But a little visual cue to remind the audience that he is, in fact, torched alive would have been a nice touch. I'm wondering how much of this stuff we'll see on the DVD extended release.
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Jefflebowski, I gotta agree with you, I thought the movie should have stopped at that moment too. Gotham in a downward spiral, Batman seemingly powerless to pull it back together. But since it didn't: I don't think it is clear that Dent died. However, I also find it hard to believe Nolan would rely on such a silly gimmick. The, "He's Dead, but He's Not" trick is lame beyond words. The problem with this movie is that it seems to be the summit of Everest. What villain is left, who will challenge Batman to the emotional, physiological, and physical extent that Joker did? The setup for the third film seems to be that Gotham itself will challenge Batman. The city will turn against him, everyone. The copycats, the cops, the kids who idolized him, will now try to stop him. But, who will the Batman be trying to stop as this happens? Joker was SO good, it is hard for me to get even remotely jazzed about another baddie. Perhaps a Nolanization of the Riddler is the way to go. Maybe a character inspired by the Joker, unleashed on Gotham. The Nolans painted themselves into a tight spot: a series that has gotten so good, it would take a miracle for it not to crash. Also, I have to think that Nolan will be bored to tears with this material shortly. In the same way Rami sabotaged the much easier to produce Spiderman series with the godawful mess Spiderman 3, I fear Nolan will check out of this series either literally or figuratively. My vote, and I'm sure this will be hugely unpopular, announce a 5 to 10 year hiatus. We get our next Batman in 2013-18. Nolan gets time to recharge his batteries and the masterpiece that is TDK gets room to breathe. The next story will be about a declining and bitter Batman, still trying to save a city that has never forgiven him for the "TwoFace" murders, and another set of baddies. Perhaps after 5-10 years another actor will emerge with the stones to give the Joker character a run. Or, if not, their is enough meat on the story when you combine Batman's own decline, a new enemy, and a vengeful city to create another compelling masterpiece. I know it is a stretch, but gosh, where the hell does this series go for an encore? Just a brilliant, brilliant movie.
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in the opening scene of the bank robbery the villians put grenades in everyones hands in the bank correct? well when joker drives off triggering the sleeping gas container wouldn't that make everyone drop there grenades in turn blowing up the bank? ( i heart run-on sentences )
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going to expose Batman on tv?
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So every lemming marched out to see this opening weekend. Titanic made a shit load of money and I sure as hell wouldn't cum all over it like you folks are doing TDK. In the interim I'll go see Hellboy 2 again and wait til TDK is renting for $1 at my local Redbox video. All your slathering fanboy jizz over this movie has convinced me it's a fucking rental.
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If that happened, then this series would follow almost the exact same path of the GODFATHER trilogy, for better or worse. Funny, how history repeats itself (maybe). Ahh, it's a funny world we live in.
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If making a third installment don't let the gap be too wide.
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did you forget your medication again?
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Do you honestly think fanboys alone can bring $66 million to a movie in one day? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The movie got outstanding reviews. People flocked to it because people like to see good movies. Fanboys alone cannot make a movie succeed.
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I suggest that you see it in a theater. DVD won't do this justice.
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great way to judge a movie. Leave it to a bunch of anonymous fanboys to "jizz" all over it.
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LOL at comparing TITANIC to TDK, it must be great living in a false reality.
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Jul 19, 2008 10:39:06 PM CDT
remember when people said Indy 4 was going to be best of 08?
by prossor
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Jul 19, 2008 10:40:10 PM CDT
Human Tornado, I missed Joker grabbing the shard of glass...
by mrhazard
Seen the movie twice and I missed this TWICE??? And as for the Lau burning, I really think they showed as much as they could with the PG-13 rating (still it was a nice touch even doing that in the first place)... With that being said, I think this movie was violent and dark enough... I've seen hospital bombings, exploding judges, guns pointed at children, multiple cop fatalities, etc etc etc... Good enough for me!!!
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With Rachel, Harvey, Bruce and the Batman-Dent relationship. It needed a lot more of that. They told us, not showed us how important Harvey was to Gotham - within mins of his first screen time it was "Look! Harvey Dent Is The New Hope & He Flips A Coin!" And that was it. Very good, but because of these flaws with the char development I consider Batman Begins better.
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Big mistake to kill Two-Face and not the Joker, even if they couldn't predict Heath's death. Have Harvey kill him and save Two-Face for another film.
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Or did he get killed off-screen and I missed it...
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I think they can and should do Robin.
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"What about Robin?" Nolan and Bale go walking out the door, as does the Batman franchise once again.
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...it'll never happen. No Robin=No Hush. Nolan and bale have said it aloud...Robin will never happen.
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That was the point of the first scene in the courtroom. A gangster on the stand destroys his case by lying about who the head of the mob family is, points a gun at him, and squeezes the trigger twice. Dent doesn't flinch, disarms him, and knocks him out. AND THEN wants to continue the trial!!! He also locks up most of the criminals in Gotham with that RICO case after Lau gives up his associates... Batman says it himself even HE couldn't do that... He also grabs one of the assassins during the parade and pretty much takes him hostage for information. I mean what more do you want??? He did a lot more than Billy Dee!!!
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Why are you being a such a dick. Who cares if people are going ape shit over a movie. It not the end of the world. The movie really is that good.
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just to have him get shot down by the Joker... They should bring back the Joker and have him get into Batman's head so much until he has no choice but to break his ONE rule and kill him... And after that Batman is even more lost than ever before...
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They should have used Bridget Moynahan for Rachel. She looked more like Katie Holmes. I thought that Maggie Gyllenhaal just didn't look like Bruce Wayne's equal.
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Jul 19, 2008 11:10:34 PM CDT
Reason #124 why I love this movie... The Joker hostage vids...
by mrhazard
LOOK AT ME!!!
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...as Batmanuel from the short-lived live-action Tick series? I thought that was kind of weirdly coincidental. Also I thought it was weird that the Mayor of a major metropolitan city really looked like he was wearing guyliner.
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RATINGS: hulk (F) iron man (B-) the dark knight (B) hellboy 2 (D) wanted -based on the first 15 minutes before i walked out (Z-)
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does he just have really, really dark eyes. the dude looked basically the same as he does in LOST, so i'm just wondering...maybe homie doesn't wear the eyeliner after all?
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He would be the most cliched joker ever.
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He will cast Brad Pitt as the Riddler, be ridiculed and somehow have everyone declaring it brilliant by the time the first trailer comes out.
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TDK Owned.Simple as that."What, did you really think my big plan was to fist fight you on top of a building?" HA! PWND! Take that one, Burton lovers.
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The Joker scared the living shit out of me. I feel like Ive stared at the Devil in the eye. What a brilliant performance
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I agree with some of you that the Riddler would be a great villain. They should make a hard R (doubt it tho) and have Riddler torture ppl and leave clues for batman, Seven-style.
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Did anyone else expect Batman to run into John McClane during some of the scenes? Especially the hospital scene?
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This movie will make a bazillion dollars. They'll make a third one. But Nolan's going to do something else in between. He likes to cleanse his palate I think. Its fun to hypothesize, but this lack of faith some people have is ridiculous. Whatever the story is, whenever he gets to it, trust Nolan. This is the same guy that told us he was casting the gay cowboy from 10 Things I Hate About you as the Joker! If he needs to recast, fine. At this point, Nolan could tell say he was casting his grandmother as Catwoman, and I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Until then, enjoy the best film you'll see this year. They don't come better than this.
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...that's another "Heat" reference right there.
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I utterly disagree with your opinion regarding the treatment of the Joker in the next installment. The truth is, they SHOULD leave the Joker alone. I don't think that Heath left the character up to any sort of interpretation or re-imaginings. He hasn't done that. He made the Joker, along with the Nolan's. That's it, really. Of course, this is opinion. But I believe that it's a more sound opinion. I hate that when I think about Heath's death, I feel bad that I'll never see him back in that role, which, in all honesty, transcends even those roles you mention in your article. What I should feel bad about is the fact that he was a young guy, who apparently didn't fall into the trappings of being a young success in Hollywood, who was turning amazing performance after amazing performance. Bardem? I loved his work, I'm not a hater. But please. One required deadpan delivery of lines and a straight face while committing murder, the other a complete immersement of one person into another. Bardem in the same league? No.The Dark Knight surpassed my expectations, which, in all honesty, I absolutely did NOT expect.
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When he realizes that Batman did not choose to save Rachel...amazing performance. I really don't yet know exactly what I want out of the third film. It will almost certainly involve Batmans exile, and perhaps his eventual redemption in the eyes of the people of Gotham. But will Nolan take the theme of escalation even further? Will he have Batman breaking his rule, like Miller did in TDKR? Although it seems at the end of TDK that Wayne/Batman has retained his moral code and soul, who knows what that constant persecution and exile will do to him?
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but without Ledger, I don't know that I need to see a sequel. No matter what comes next, there will always be the sad question of what could have been. I don't think they can top this one any time soon.
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When he's lying on the ground Eckhart's clearly breathing. I thought it was just a goof, but then it seemed too obvious to be there accidently. After the speech and the memorial scene I'm pretty sure he's still alive.
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Is the Joker, back to camera, waiting and looking out the window with the dogs. Just seemed so dangerous and foreboding and evil in an epic way.
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1. After Dent gets burned, have him wear the gause pad until the final hostage scene, then have him sloooowly rip it off, so we see and HEAR the flesh tearing with the pad as he reveals what has happened to him.
2. Cut out the boat scene entirely and just have Joker plotting the destruction of some city landmark (like the Wayne building).
3. Film the entire Joker interrogation scene in night vision.
4. Dent should have killed Gordon's family. It would have built up Gordon as someone with just as much turmoil inside as Batman and basically made them brothers in the same fight to save the city.
5. Dent should not have died at the end. And he did die, btw, you don't get half your face burned off and then fall 50 feet and not die. Ledger, with the performance he gave, would have been a better fit to have a grand finale ending than Dent. Even if Ledger didn't pass away, it still would have been more fitting for his character to meet his end rather than just get captured, considering he already got captured once in the movie. -
I actually felt like things fell apart a bit in the last half hour when Two-Face got involved.
For the next movie I'd like to see them choose two villains we haven't seen yet: Clayface, Toyman, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist. Clayface and Ventriloquist would make for a good villain team-up. -
Just saw Wall-E again and it was still twice as amazing as it was the first time, and still felt better then Batman. I don't think Batman will be as good a second time. That being said, I'm in the middle of watching Payback: Directors Cut Edition, and Mel Gibson needs to be Batman. If they make a new Batman, they should make it like an aging Batman and Mel Gibson should be it, he already beats all those blimy brits in an Alec Baldwin deep voice contest.
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In the climax of every Batman movie, he's fallen in love, or quitting his job, or getting revenge on the guy who shot his parents. At the end of Batman Begins he's fighting his own mentor on the Wayne Monorail at the foot of Wayne Tower. That sort of misses the point of heroism and the essence of Batman. Yes he does what he does because he's scarred, but he leaves that deep down inside and basically only lets it out by hitting guys really hard.
I'd like to see a Batman movie that isn't so much about the trials and tribulations of Batman the man as it is a straightforward crime fighting story. -
...okay, I wondered about the eyeliner thing during Lost, but I let it go. He's got chops, leave him be.
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And by that I mean, how to test a new actor and audiences for someone filling in Heath's role. For the third film the Joker should play a small part similar to the Scarecrow in TDK. A short scene somewhere in the middle. For some reason someone goes to Arkham to get some info and feel the Joker may have it and attempt some futile effort to gain insight from him. So, in his cell in a straightjacket or whatever you have a new actor who looks similar to Heath, with his mouth scars and no white makeup or anything on, just the Joker as he looked when he tried to assassinate the mayor in TDK without the green hair or facepaint. The scene will be a short but significant one with enough time to try out the new guy in the role and see how he does. If he doesn't work out, then the scene can be cut. If Nolan and co think he does a grand job, then keep it in and see how the audiences fare. The fact that he's got no Joker facepaint on will help; to the audience he will look different BUT the illusion is that he does because of the lack of facepaint so it'll be easier to transition him into Heath's role. Then based on how everyone receives that peformance they can decide if they ever want this guy playing the Joker in a bigger role come Batman 4 or beyond!
And since we're on the subject, I think Nolan has a chance to fit in the Riddler, or Catwoman or the Penguin even! The Penguin as many have suggested can be played by some Danny Devito guy, a short round actor who'll be some aristocratic guy who comes to Gotham to try and get a foot into the underworld and control organized crime. Much like Harvey Dent gets his Two Face nickname, Cobblepot can also have a nickname of 'The Penguin' behind his back because he likes fancy galas and dress in his tux with a monocle and looks funny doing it. In fact given that Batman is on the run, Bruce Wayne can have a larger role in this film as he spends more time in hiding and we can instead have lots of interaction between Cobblepot and Bruce Wayne as social billionaires and Wayne can find ways through his aristocratic social life to investigate Cobblepot! And we can still fit in some scenes of Cobblepot showing he can play dirty and defend himself by hiding weapons inside an umbrella, or even a regular walking cane. So one or two quick scenes of that can't hurt and can definately fit in...Catwoman can also fit into the movie, as someone said maybe as an exprostitute/thief who tries to be a Robin Hood vigilante herself to upset the billionaire community in Gotham. She can also go after and seduce the 'womanizing' Bruce Wayne as the sexy Selina Kyle and it'll make for some interesting dynamics especially as Bruce tries to continue overcoming the loss of Rachel! So yeah it sounds like Batman Returns all over again, but that was the best one until Nolan fit in so it'll be interesting to see how he'd handle having these two 'Returns' characters in his film! I think everyone can agree on this idea, ya? -
...is the new Cloverfield Lion. Sometimes you guys amaze me.
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say never. -- feed gremlins after midnight. -- or put a CGI two face that acts like he belongs in Batman Forever with the a PRACTICAL EFFECTS MAKE-UP ON HIS FACE real-as-balls Joker IN THE SAME SCENE..... INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER!!! let alone in the same movie.
other than that. cool idea for a scene. should have happened more towards the end to set up two face for the sequel. followed by a better joker finale. followed by THE CREDITS.
because thats where it should have ended instead of drifting into Toontown.
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...ebo_plauge, you mean is the new Cthulu/Voltron, no?
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I take absolutely no joy in saying that I think that was the single most overrated movie of my lifetime. I feel so horribly let down by all the rave reviews. Walking into this movie, my friends and I were discussing going to see it again tomorrow on Imax; walking out, no one even mentioned the idea of seeing it again. It was so meh. Yeah, Ledger was good, but he was trapped in an otherwise dull movie (the pencil gag was funny, and his scene turning Dent in the hospital was well played). I wanted to like this movie so badly but i was just never drawn into it. Not for a moment. Totally meh. What a letdown.
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If you made it to hour seven where (I THINK) Heath is in a nurse, you can't say overrated...
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does anyone else actually feel like it was too good? by that i mean, i actually don't want them to make any more batman movies. i just want it to end there. no JLA, no robin, no nothing to fuck up the perfection of what these people have crafted.
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The guy even made a movie about dueling MAGICIANS entertaining!!! I thought Memento was overrated tho...
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"This movie is TOO good..."
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Just everyone is way too excited. Its like after a string of amazing summer movies to culminate in The Dark Knight and not have it suck, people just can't handle it. I think that with the added death of Heath made the hype that much more, that people don't want to not over hype it. I say its on the same level on the first one, and about as good as the original (Die Hard With A Vengeance).
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Not sure if anyone mention this but how about Nolan Sets the next film 20 yrs into the future and calls it "The Dark Knight Returns". Would be awesome.
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I remember your Blade 2 review. I remember you mentioning genitals in a review for a movie that had none, and mentioning not just gentials, but detailed genitals, and what those genitals reacted too. Little gross. But I read this review, and I find myself happy that I have spent this much time following AICN. Because you've evolved into one serious fucking critic. I've read so many reviews that have just been jerking off all over this movie, and yet of all fuckin people, screaming Oscar Oscar Oscar!, you managed to write one of the few reviews that doesn't feel like bandwagon bullshit. Nicely done Big Red.
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but I could see them learning from the mistakes they made in this one and make another movie equally as good, provided they find someone to play a villian of equal stature to Ledger's Joker.
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My top 5.
1. Elijah Wood.
2. Jake Gyllenhal
3. Daniel Day Lewis
4. Mark Wahlberg
5. My darkhorse - Adam Sandler. -
It's this year's little miss sexiest tomboy bomb in a ribcage with flames on it's nipples and dead raped werewolves eating Blade's chocolate covered pussy juice.
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Or Penguin. Maggie Gyllenhaal, I just saw her in a movie called The Dark Knight and if you haven't seen it, they made he look really ugly and I don't think they even used make up. I think she could be a good Penguin.
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Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the little... emotions... You see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I knew your friends better than you ever did... Would you like to know which of them were cowards???
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Jul 20, 2008 1:08:55 AM CDT
The only person who could play the JOKER in the next BATMAN movi
by laraz
Everyone has been freaking out about who can play the joker in the next batman film. What you need to be doing is thinking about what Nolan has up his sleve. No one can out do what Heath Ledger did with this performance, and if you saw the movie his character was just left hanged upside down, no real indication of what happened to him. I dont think nolan would of left the character in that state if there wasnt more footage of Ledger as the joker. Like some people have been saying there is like a three hour cut of this film. Would not suprise me if nolan had footage of heath being taken away to Arkam Asylum, but decided to wait to incorporate it in to the next film instead of this won. Lets hope im right on this cause if im not, I dred the actor who would have to do this role.
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Totally, utterly, and completely disagree with you on DDL and his performance as Daniel Plainview. What, you don't think that Bill Hader (the guy who did the impression of DDL in TWBB on SNL) isn't also going to do an equally impressive job doing an impression of Ledger's Joker early on in SNLs next season? I'd be willing to lay money on it happening, and it being really good, and probably even on the first episode of the season. His talent as an imitator in this case (he also does a hilariously spot on James Mason amongst others) has absolutely NOTHING to do with DDLs talent as an actor. Clearly both Lewis and Ledger are (or, sadly, were in the case of the later) immensely talented actors and thats why their respective performances are so highly praised. The ability of talented mimics to perfectly imitate their targets bares no relation to the respective talents of the actors they impersonate, but to the talent of the mimic.
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It does not surprise me that this movie had FIVE WRITERS. I knew this half way through the movie before I even looked it up. How did I know this sitting in the movie? Three things will tip you off to multiple writers in a movie. (1) Haphzaard, rambling direction. (2) Storline on top of storyline on top of storyline. (3) The movie ends FIVE TIMES (one for each writer).
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That is all.
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That was the whole point of Gordan's speech at the end and the smashing of the Bat Signal. If Gotham saw that their White Knight had become a villian, all hope would be lost. So they blamed it all on Batman, and he took it willingly. If Dent were alive, there would have been 0 point to any of that. He's dead.And Pensey... Kristen Bell for Harley Quinn... YES!!! Joker could be played out Manson style, giving orders from inside his darkened cell Arkham.
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Yes that scene was probably one of my favorites, the coward line was awesome.
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said it before ill say it again
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Finished watching a better movie then The Dark Knight, Payback the Directors cut. And I'm watching a DVD feature and Mel's got a full on Metal looking gotee/beard and yes, he needs to be the next bad guy (or the next Batman, if they make the Old Man Batman movie) for Batman 3...I would say with a Vengeance but that was The Dark Knight. It has to be Mel, because if we've learned anything about The only truly American superhero, is that it needs to be done by someone under the Queens rule to be done properly.
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OK - I completely agree with everyone that says Heath put in a perfect performance. I honestly don't want to see anyone else even attempt it. But with all the names out there - how has no one thrown out Johhny Depp?? While we may be sick of him, the guy's a fantastic actor and wouldn't f*** it up. Also, he seems to have a similar body type to Heath (probably a bit smaller) - and I'm betting he could even get the voice close. Having said this - I really don't want to see a Johnny Depp Joker, but I think he'd do a better job than some of the others mentioned....just a thought.
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I'm not a fan of recasting. If it was Katie, her death would have had more of an impact, Because you remember her from Batman Begins. Without her playing Rachel. Rachel seemed like a new character to me
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If the joker is ever to be represented in this continuum again, they should go for a different personality. The reason I say this is just like the character prefers his history to be "multiple choice" the same goes for his personality. In the comics he goes through different stages as once described in last year's Batman comic(the one where joker self administers a scarred smile and the art is cg rendered instead of pen and ink)and it would be a good reason why a new actor wouldn't have to replicate Heath's work but rather create his own. Not sure who would be best at reinventing the personality while still believing that he's the same character. Now that would be a challenge. Actually when I think about it DiCaprio would be fearless enough to re-imagine the Joker and keep him linked to Heath's performance. He's only 5 years older so behind make-up it could be believable. What's more is they are both 6'1" so the character would even have the same stature.
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I'm telling you they have to have more footage of heath as the joker, or else nolan would of ended the film different.
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good idea Logo Lou. Pretty much just a Homicidal Doctor, brilliant!
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I like your thinking, I also didn't like that they re-casted the movie with that guy that played Jack The Pumpkin King.
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I really hope they dont incorporate catwoman or robin in the next film. I think it would take away the dramatic tone. It would be really cool to have the riddler though played by no other than johnny depp. Think he would do to the role what ledger did to the joker!
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I would rank Superman: The Movie,..Spiderman-2,..Iron Man and Batman Begins over TDK. I liked many aspects of TDK, I just didn't care for it as a Batman movie. Way too far off the beaten path for me. Ledger alone is worth the price of admission, but the movie collapses under its own immense, pretentious weight.
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CAUSE I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEE HER BLOW UP!!!! C'mon - Katie Holmes is one of the worst actresses I've ever seen. She does that "Kirsten Dunst" head bob whenever she talks - anyone noticed that? Like she's constantly shaking her head "no". Re-watch Batman Begins - you can't miss it. It infuriates me! haha -- As for my earlier comment, I read further down and saw that Johnny Depp had been mentioned. But to LARAZ - I agree with you, Johnny Depp for the Riddler!
2 more topics:
1. In Batman Begins, does anyone else hate the scene where the Batmobile is driving over the rooftops? The action is great - but here's what I can't stand: the subpar acting of those cops! "At least tell me what it looks like....nevermind." & "He's on the roof!" -- all the cop lines are delivered so poorly that it takes me out of the movie every time....
2. In The Dark Knight - Who was that woman on top of the money that Joker was burning??? It looked like a woman -- At first I was trying to place her, but I kind of think now she was just some random person he picked up to burn. Like he said, to "send a message". -
They never say he's dead and he took the same fall Batman did... Yes, the people of Gotham cant know Dent turned into a murdering psychopath so Gordon tells the public he's dead (he's starting to master the art of the "fake death" anyway) and lock him up in Arkham... Never imagining he would ever escape... I'm not saying this is how the writers originally intended for this to be but with Ledger's death, it might be best to bring back Two Face than someone else trying to play the Joker...
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sorry but whatever you think of batman returns... everyone agrees its highlight was catwoman played by michelle.
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your idea is fucking aces
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Katie Holmes was pretty much the only weak link in BB. Gylynwhatever was much better. And I too HATED the extremely corny acting of the cops going crazy about the tumbler on the roof. And the person of top of the money in TDK was Lau, the rich Chinese tycoon. I blinked the first time I saw this scene and missed it completely...
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sue me. i felt no emotional weight when maggie died sheerly b/c of the recasting.
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The only mistake nolan made with batman begins was casting katie holmes in that role. I would of only of liked to see katie holmes in the dark knight so when her character did die I could get up and cheer!
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wow - Thanks, I completely missed that. I figured that he had killed Lau, but that they left it to your imagination. So this makes more sense...although the thought of him just taking some random person to burn is so much scarier! Not sure why I thought it looked like a woman; I'll have to pay better attention when I see it again.
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eckhart was awesome as regular dent. but his two face kinda took me out of it. it might have been the cg scarring or the fact that NO ONE can top ledger's joker as menacing.
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Dent/Two-face is dead. There is no link in the final act of the film that says other wise. If he did not die and would of lived the entire plot of the film would of backfired. & as far as RAS coming back, in batman begins he was killed by batman. RAS was played by KEN WANNABE, anyone remember!& as far as the joker in the third film I am still conivenced that nolan has more footage of ledger that he will incorporate in to the next installment.
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Jul 20, 2008 2:12:46 AM CDT
Two-Face isn't dead at the end because Batman doesn't kill.
by flim springfield
Dumb reason, I know, but I don't make the rules.
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I hope it's true that Nolan has more footage of Ledger that he'll use in the next one. I'll admit I felt a childlike excitement everytime Ledger's Joker was on the screen. Haven't felt that at a movie in a long time. And laraz -- I think that Dent is alive. I think the actual plot of the film was that the Joker was trying to turn him, so really the Joker suceeded. I go with the Batman/Gordan coverup. Kind of wrong that they would just put him in Arkham without a trial or anything...so much for justice!
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a survived dent breaking out of arkham and wreaking menace, along with another periphiral villain (from the rogue's gallery), could work in this film series.
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Didn't you guys love the camcorder stuff filmed by the Joker? truly the work of a madman
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You could be right that two-face is alive. But they leave it open, like he could be alive or dead. They dont indicate that he is alive, but they do indicate that he is dead. But the possibilty of him being alive is likely, if you go by the comics, which nolan has done great thus far. But if two-face is dead, it works perfect in the films format and triology.As far as more footage of ledger, i'm hoping it is true just because I dont see nolan recasting the joker. No one can, he owns the role. Well just have to sit and wait another dread three to fours years to find out. Ahhh!
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If Warners cannot convince the Nolans to come back after this weekend total maybe it's for the best. Don't force it. Another note although Goyer did the treatment I think this is the film nolan wanted to make. It would be good with Goyer totally expunged they could bring in a Jeph Loeb or some other recent Batman writer to collaborate.
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Two face make up is awful, all the scenes ends up prematurely (ie no laughing gas at the bank even thought the gas is released, the boat scene sucks (they should have blown each other or themselves to make the scene good), the scene where the joker goes find Rachel at the party is copied verbatim over the scene in Die Hard where Hans crash the party and search for Tagaki, Gordon death was the pits because we saw other shots of him from later in the movie in the trailer... do I need to go on ? What about this shot at the end where the mask pushes Bale's face off in close up ? He looks stupid. There's no Bruce Wayne in this movie, when the original was all about him. This is geek filmmaker, made to please internet geeks.
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Joker mentions in the end that he and Batman should share a padded cell together... Foreshadowing, perhaps??? Also remember Batman is on the run now so it fits with how they are going with the series. And didnt they do this storyline in the comics? Or maybe I'm thinkin of the animated series. Either way, could be interesting... If they did this, it would have to be revealed to the world that Wayne is Batman which could also be something to explore in future films. It would also be cool to see Batman locked up in the same place with Joker, Scarecrow, and Dent (if he returns)... I dont know if this SHOULD happen but again it's another possible way they could go...
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Edward Norton as the Riddler.
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Arkham Asylum Summer 2011. I'm ready.
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The Catwoman and The Riddler for movie #3. I'd suggest Daniel-Day Lewis for The Riddler. For Catwoman, a chick that's in her mid-thirties, not some 21 year old CW graduate. Catwoman needs gravitas, intellect, and cunning. No chick under the age of 25 has all that. I'd suggest someone like Rachel Weisz. Now that I think more on it, I think Angelina Jolie would be perfect, almost too perfect - too obvious. Someone like her though, with the ability to project an edge. Day-Lewis would be a pure jay as The Riddler.
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Screenwriting credit.
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Theplant were you high when you saw this film. It's the best dam film of the year so far besides the orphange!Nolan has out done Tim burton on every possible level, by sticking to the comic books! You probably thought superman returns was great! And this movie in not a rehash of other action movies, Quentin Tarantino wasnt behind the camera Nolan was and unlike nolan, quentin uses every dam influence he had growing up and try's to put it all in one movie! As far as the boxoffice-it will probably have the biggest opening of all time. But does anyone really think it can crack the 400 million mark like spidey, i think it could reach the neighborhood of 330-360 million. But it will be a hard feight to get to spidermans record, anyone disagree?
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1 - How many people think Dent could be alive. I thought his death was completely unambiguous. And 2 - How many people want to see the Riddler in part 3. I always thought he was a pretty crappy character. Where's the suspense in watching a detective track a guy who leaves clues behind on purpose.
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This film requires at least 2 viewings as it is remarkably dense. Nolan took a hammer to the "superhero film" template. Even some people who want better "superhero" films will say negative thing about this just like those who saw the automobile and saw it as a threat to their horse and buggy way of life. I can't wait for this to come out on DVD so I can savor it with a six pack (or perhaps this warrants a nice scotch).
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It was 100% unambiguous that Two-Face/Harvey was dead. He was lying there with his eyes open, not breathing - DEAD. The death was obviously caused by blunt force to his spinal cord. No miracle work from a timely EMT team would bring him back to life. 100% unambiguous death.
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They DO "indicate that he's dead" - They say in the movie that he's dead. He's lying there with his eyes open, not breathing, dead. It's unambiguous.
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Well I most likely think that harvey is dead, but alot of people disagree. So I would just leave it open to wither he could be alive/dead. I think he is not alive because at the end of the film, the indicated that he was dead.
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What was up with scare crow in the beginning? Was he being sarcastic when he said he was helping Batman out, or was he seriously trying to put together his own team of rag tag fake bat men?
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Eva Green for Catwoman?
Daniel Day Lewis for The Riddler? -
Excellent movie.
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Oops
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I still think twoface is alive and will be a publicly visible villain, which will (as messi said) destroy the hope that batman and gordon tried to preserve. But more importantly the city would find out that batman is not a killer.
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I'm amazed at how many faults you can find in an obviously wonderful film. Did it bother you there were too many Italians in The Godfather? Were you disappointed they spent too much time on the water in Jaws? Or that Rocky had too much fighting in it? You're the kind of people who'd make it to Heaven and then complain the clouds are uncomfortable. TDK is a solid, entertaining, multi-layered film. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.
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how much movie did this money make?...
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I enjoyed the film a lot and thought there was some terrific stuff in it, but it is flawed. Logical things and motivations for characters, mainly. Dents 'flip' to the dark side didn't seem totally justified..going from a completely moral guy to an almost child killer felt forced.
There were a few too many loose endings...the scene where the Joker crashes Dent's fundraiser has Batman saving Rachael (after falling 30 stories where they should have been dead) and leaving the Joker and his henchmen with the guests...we never see what happens there. Did they just say, ok, folks, shows over..bye..! ?
There are other instances of that and bits of stupid stuff..let's leave one guy alone with The Joker in a room.....surrrre. Let's play dumb when we see a guy with an obvious bomb in his chest glowing through his skin..uh..duh..what's that....BOOM!!! Gary Oldman was good, but I felt he mumbled his lines at times and his accent came across as phony.
And Maggie Glylenaal is no beauty. She kinda looks like the characters in the Twilight Zone episode 'Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder' in some shots.
Still, that sad, it as a fun movie, had some great moments (the cycle exploding from the self-destructed Batmobile, the 180 turn with it, Batman beating the shit of the Joker in the interrogation room brought a tear to my eye at the intensity of Bales performance, Heath overall) and certainly an improvement of Batman Begins (especially the fight scenes).
It's a shame we won't get to see a follow-up with the The Joker (and just what did happen with him, anyway? He was left hanging upside down).
Not the masterpiece some people are saying by far, but certainly one of the better comic book movies of recent years. -
wait for the bat symbol to show in the clouds. set up a sniper position in an opposing building to the police tower. BAM! end of franchise. oh and Abbie Cornish for the new Catwoman. she would nail it.
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Aaron Eckhart let it slip on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno that he will be in the third one. That ends that discussion
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..to have the Joker working behind the scenes, where we don't have to see him, but he can still have his lackeys and thugs working for him? Ya know, Charles Manson style? Nobody could/should fill his shoes.
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Two Face's scarred eye was open because it had no lid. His good side was closed. It was a small drop, about the distance Maroni fell. They didn't show him breathing but in movie world an eye shut means unconcious not dead.
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dont really know where to start this review...a couple years late.....I never really wanted to watch this movie....dont know why...not really a homophobe.....but I really thought I could live a full life without seeing this film.....its not really my fault..it was on BRAVO.....just watched DARK NIGHT....so I had to see it...nOW i SEE WHY NOLAN picked Ledger(i know it was edited for my safety)...but HOLY CHRIST...what a great love story....I see now why they gave Ang Lee the reigns to the first HULK......what a compelling....beautiful love ..true love epic...Kinda felt like James Dean in the oil movie...where it takes place over a number of years...what was that called...Texas????Dallas///oh yeah GIANT......I really thought I was gonna be completely turned off by the homosexuality.....but ...and that is a big but(Pee-Wee.."let's talk about your big BUTT")butt..it actually brought tears to mee eye .....it deserved all the Oscar nods...and them some.....it was hard to believe I was watching Ledger and Gylenhall....doing this......its such a touchy subject....i don't approve but i would not stand in the way of true love.....they really showed me that love knows no bounds....love is not something that you can control.....love happens..then you Cowboy up and do the right thing....A real true love..like the Love you had for your first vehicle...I'm sure you named Her...they are always "hers" ..of course not true love...but a first love....Brokeback was a screening of real honest to GOD real love....I will high five anyone that finds this type of love....I have found it my self.....(been with my fat little 'darlin wife.. for 17 years)..butt no matter who you are..if this love falls in your lap...roll with it...dance with it...put a sprinkle of sugar on it and eat it up....it does not come around often...if you see it stomp on it and put it in your pocket.....I thought Brokeback would be Gay..... but now I see it is truly Beautiful.....
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Two Face,is not Dead..Hell no...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsxa8oCPZzM fill the blanks.
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Highest box office numbers for one day! It beat Spidey!
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not do good at the Box Office
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Actually did a billion dollars with the adjusted ticket price....bad example
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but i guess that made a trillion dollars too...good love story
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Yeah, Bruce saves him: the scene in the lamborghini where everyone's trying to kill him, bruce saves him by letting the truck crash into the lamborghini, then gives the guy from his company a little nod as in "I just saved your ass."
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that wasnt a money maker?????Ishttar.....
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He's got the look, and he's already played a fucked up character... Road to Perdition, I believe. So if he scaled that back, it would be gangbusters.
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As many British guys are in this flick, I wouldn't mind one more... I'd also accept Philip Seymour Hoffman.
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It might make a little more sense for him to be older and need the freeze stuff to keep his elderly wife from dying... I guess any age make sense...
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I'm tired... sleepy time, ahahahaha. I also keep returning to Heath's incredible reading when he says "LOOK at ME" in that psycho accent. Pure brilliance.
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1. Harvey's eventual reemergence would be the only way to exonerate Batman of the murders.2. Nolan has stated that he thought Burton made a mistake by killing off the Joker in BATMAN '89. If he felt that way, why would he kill off a major villain in his own film?3. The brothers Nolan made a point of setting up that the police were unaware of what they were responding to at the warehouse and who was inside (thus believably facilitating a cover-up by both Gordon and Batman). The exchange went something like this:Harvey: "You brought your police?"Gordon:"They're just responding to a call, they don't know who or what, they're just setting up a perimeter."Why would the brothers Nolan write a line like that if they weren't foreshadowing a cover-up?Furthermore, it is entirely within Gordon's means to pull off a cover-up of that magnitude seeing as he successfully faked his own death.4. The irony would be too great to pass up. Harvey says, "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." He thought it was an either/or type situation and didn't realize that you could, in fact, die a hero AND live as the villain.5. Aaron Eckhart revealed he would be appearing in the third film on "The Tonight Show."
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Could you expand on your criticisms regarding the supposed "unmotivated, illogical character arcs that run contrary to the development of the characters?" They all seemed rather logical to me.
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The Scarecrow was implying that Batman needed help in the psychiatric sense. He was not affiliated with the copycat Batmen in any way (he actually gassed one of the Bat posers while they were trying to stop his drug deal).
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Main problem for me was the Dent storyline which felt cliched and was mostly just boring.
Superman 1 and 2 still kill this new stuff for charm, charisma, sheer likeabilty and even a sense of spectacle. Making something dark does not equal sophistication or intelligence. -
I think some people are losing their minds calling it the best movie ever made, but it certainly is the best superhero movie ever made, arguably the best movie of the year (or at least a contender), and aside from all that, just an asskickingly cool and smart move. That said, I don't know if, objectively, I could say its better than Godfather II, but I certainly liked it more than Godfather II. I watched Godfather II twice and that was enough. I know I'll be watching this over and over and over again when it comes out on dvd. Planning on seeing it at least one or two more times in the theatre. And so on and so forth.
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Sorry. I love Spider-Man 1 and 2, but TDK makes both films look ridiculous by comparison.
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Thank you, that puts your brain into perspective for me.
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And no, I'm not just talking about the opening bank scene...I'm talking about the LOOK of the entire bloody film. I wonder how many times Nolan made his cinematographer and editor watch Mann's film version of Miami Vice. I noticed way too many of that film's visual cues when watching TDK.
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but you have to concede that won't happen if they take the character of batman somewhere else. rachel dawes isn't joker, I'd rather he just be a looming threat, never seen in part 3. maybe batman is the villain in part 3. the cops, the public are his antagonists.
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but when it's all said and done...I'm inclined to say The Dark Knight was joyless, overwrought, overwritten, didactic and overblown. I'd like to see it again simply because Nolan throws so much at us...but it's such an emotionally draining fim that I'll have to wait a couple of weeks before again finding the strength to get through those 2hrs 20 minutes.
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two face is dead.
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you do suck.
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It's a thing of sheer beauty.
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two face is dead.
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10/10 with the mad anger voice - never faults through the movie and seems a bit more fucking deep then in begins so many ways batman can own u
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Batman isn't Batman without throwing in mystical/supernatural elements. batman is not supposed to be just another police drama. These movies are great, but it just seems like Nolan is trying too hard to bring them out of the comic book genre.
DC should just make a Hush movie..and maybe a decent Superman movie too? -
For the silver screen's ultimate HORSE FACE.
Come'on, a pretty boy billionaire could run some better ass than that. -
although improved, why can't nolan make it look right? It's grey not black.
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It worked or else myself and everybody out there minus some people like yourself who provide a very good argument or reasons to back up the statement
it's a bloody batman movie but also a fucking MIND FUCK and also a bloody comedy as u do laugh
i love it
you say brillent yet he trying to hard
SHAME on you
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It's a great FEUD movie. I simply LOVE the rivalry between Bale and Jackman. How they are constantly trying to one-up each other till the very end. Nolan is very good at building rivalries between the surrounding characters very well... Batman VS Joker. Dent VS Batman and Gordon. Joker VS society... The Prestige might be better a better overall film than TDK but I enjoyed TDK more. It's hard to say tho.
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is one of the best batman tales ever told...The animates series guys are really the only ones who could bring batman out of the comics and really understand the character and do him justice. I'd love to seen Nolan acknowledge the larger DC universe at least a tiny bit, sort of like the Stark Cameo in the Hulk
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Jul 20, 2008 9:51:42 AM CDT
I love these guys who are saying there's NO WAY they can bring D
by mrhazard
It's a movie... They can do whatever they want...
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That was a fine film. Hardly perfect and I don't think it was the best Batman film ever made (still Mask of the Phantasm), but come on going into that film was a great mindfuck of an experience.
I see where people are coming from saying the film is emotionally draining and joyless, but that's what you get when making a gritty more lifelike Batman film. That's par for the course. They still had the good sense to throw in a little humor without ruining the film. Heath was fantastic. I liked that they didn't explain the Joker. It kept the menace and also gave the filmmakers some time to explore other characters. I like how they still keep Batman the focus of the film.
One thing that bothers me, and I see it has bothered others, in Harry's review is the idea that if a film isn't dark then it's juvenile. I don't think TDK was much more philosophically complex than the Spiderman movies. They're both little morality tales. Just because you inject some Michael Mann and David Fincher into your film doesn't make it more sophisticated. In fact, speaking of Fincher, take a film like Seven. Great little thriller, but from a philosophical perspective the movie is a joke. The pop-nihilism in that film is incredibly juvenile. It's the kind of stuff I thought was really complex when I was twelve, but realize how shallow the film is years later. Harry's brighter films are juvenile comment is, ironically, itself kind of juvenile. Of course, after reading some of his reviews I wouldn't take his musings on film too seriously. He's only the mascot of AICN. -
is that he won't have the benefit of makeup that Ledger had in stepping completely into another character. Whether it be Penguin or Riddler or Catwoman or whoever, the next Batman villian is going to be completely recognizable if it's a name actor.
They might be better off going to unknown actor route and just making sure they find one terrifying mofo to play whatever character they're cooking up. -
these scars?
I was reading the talkback for TDK and the Dent dead/not dead controversy just kept on and on.
As I flossed the popcorn from between my teeth: I thought,"WHY... SO... SERIOUS?"
I smile more reading these talkbacks now.
I smile more doing everything now.
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and I did, I wouldn't go so far as to say his is the definitive version. They played him as a metaphor and as a sociopath. In a way if it wasn't for Heath's great performance The Joker would barely have been a real character in the film. I think the Joker has been handled in a more complex manner in the animated series. The episode Mad Love deals with him more convincingly as a person. Heath's performance was definitely the best live action version of the Joker, but there have been better versions in the cartoons and on the page.
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This was a GREAT movie. Great acting,great story, great production, etc. etc, So many people on this board are trying to diminish the film, and for what? NOTHING!
rbatty024, Mask Of the Phantasm, albeit a well done animated film, doesn't reah the level of TDK! Nolan did a hell of a job, he managed to tell the story he wanted to, and he pleased most fans. FUCK! I'M PISSED! So many pussy deprived, know nothing,fuck heads here! People that hate on anything popular, or anything that doesn't fit their narrow view of what a film should be!
RRRAAARRRRRR!!!!!!!!!! HULK SMASH PUNY NERDS!!!!!!!!! -
rbatty024, animation is great, But you're a slave to it.
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And if anyone here knows Chris Nolan...
Batman looks cool flying, swinging, and falling.
He totally looks awkward running. -
If you liked it more than Mask of the Phantasm, then I understand where you're coming from. I think this time around Nolan was more capable in filming action. Some people thought the political commentary in the film was heavy handed but I thought it was well done. I respect a director who wants to make Summer audiences think. There are a million ways to approach a comic book movie and I think for what Nolan was going for he succeeded handily. I was also pleased that they brought Batman out of Gotham a little and that they came up with plenty of excuses for Batman to beat the shit out of cops, which is the highlight of any Batman film. I think the biggest problem to come out of the film is, how the hell are you going to follow this one up?
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This movie brings so much and more
I totally agree why the point is made that movies are a art form when you get this quality, I love comics always have but i also see this as movie which is not a comic book and will praise the fuck out of it because
Think hard about it -
= social philosophy is 1 thing
but no let's get idiots who say will express there view which is fine but i'm god smacked when they dont provide any facts and points and still can't accept when they could be wrong
but hay let's just make personal remarks and things like they should have made hush batman movie
You people are missing the BIGGER PICTURE IN PLAY
hehe tools
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That was one of the worst Batman stories of recent memory, trumped only by All Star Batman & Robin. It was merely a villain of the week plot with an unbelievably dull mastermind behind the whole thing. There are plenty of better antagonists out there. I think Nolan is going to have a hell of a time following this film up.
Oh, and just because I liked something better than TDK doesn't mean I still didn't dig the hell out of the movie. I think the reason I enjoyed Mask of the Phantasm so much was merely the emphasis of the story rather than the actual quality of the film. It's difficult to compare an animated film, that has to deal with its themes in a more visual basis rather than dialogue, against a live action film. I still prefer Mask of the Phantasm but if you liked TDK better then, like I said, I see where you're coming from. It was the more epic of the two. -
Face, nobody gives a rats ass abotu Harley Quinn, Hush, or Bane. Props to the creation of Harley Quinn, but FUCK Hush and Bane. Two awful characters, that frankly would translate poorly to film, because they fucking SUCK.
Riddler as a terrorist, Penguin as a mob boss, or maybe poison ivy as some kind of eco terrorist.
As for Two Face, HE IS STILL ALIVE. Nolan loves "pretige" moments, and throughout TDK he was setting up a sleight of hand trick for the end of TDK. Two Face is alive, somewhere, he's the dark truth that could expose the lie that Gordon and Batman agreed on.
Fuck the haters. -
If I had my way they would introduce Talia and Lady Shiva. You can reintroduce a connection to the first film.
I actually thought Bane started off as a interesting character during the Knightsend storyline. The point was that he wasn't just strong, he was also incredibly smart. Unfortunately, they have done nothing with the character since then. Harley Quinn doesn't really mesh with Nolan's world. I also wouldn't want them to try and bring The Joker back. Heath owned that role. I don't think anyone is going to be able to recreate it, and I would feel sorry for anyone who tries. -
...and I feel like I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" once again. No Other movie made me feel this way. To the people who created such a gem, I can only say 'Thank you'.
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who's going to prosecute the criminals now????
Oh, and the best scene in the movie was when the judge reads off the 400 indictments and goes, how do you plea and the whole court room goes crazy and the stenographer is like "fuck I don't know" - I'm a stenographer, so I found that funny - probably the only one in the theater. -
like some quick news footage in the background of superman flying through metropolis while Alfred is talking to Bruce or something...or John Jones being part of Gordon's squad.
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James Gandolfini to play the Penguin. Make him the mob boss pulling all the strings.
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SPOILERS The girl dies. Harvey is in a hospital bed with bandages covering his face. Bruce is in his penthouse thinking the girl was his- Alfred knows better. END. Now, for the next two years while they're making this film, Harvey is rotting and seething in a hospital. Bruce has lost the love of his life that he's known since he was a kid. And when the third movie comes out, we finally see TWO-FACE.
Can you imagine how lame Empire Strikes Back would have been if they had tacked on another 45 minutes? Luke, Leia, Chewie and Lando swing over to Jabba's palace and give us the first act to Jedi? NO!!! The movie ends where the heroes FAIL! And it crushes us! Dark Knight was a sequel, and it could have ended at this moment where the world is turned upside down. -
Peripheral character, sure, but he can't carry a central villain role.
I personally believe that Riddler will be next, just because there are so many secrets created at the end of TDK. The Riddler could easily suss out the truth about Batman, Harvey and Gordon. -
I am (still) disapointed with Batman's costume as it looks too "armored" it's like how in the fuck could you move so fast while carrying extra pounds?Heath's Joker was a dead on portrayal of a socialpath/terrorist.My friend still prefers Nicolson's Joker overall, but that's not to say that Ledger didn't bring it. perfect final peformance that Hospital scene was somewhat reminiscent of the gunbattle in Micheal Mann's Heat.(It's the cinematography, dude.)I still kinda found it hard to belive Maggie as Racheal, not to be a bastid, but she's just not attractive. Besides Ledger, props goes to Oldman and Eckhart for carrying the rest of the film via their performances. However I can't forget Morgan Freeman's shining moment as his character (Fox)has ethical conflicts with Bruce therefore leading to a unexpected decision.The fight scenes were less shaky compared to BB, but there's still room for improvement and why does Batman sound more and more like Snake Plissken? Too much gruff, for a second I thougt bats was taking a shit.Better than Ironman?Storywise hell yeah, but I liked Shellhead better. Just my opinion.
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They have a dance club scene and no Bat Toosie?
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/Fantasy-Lied/Batman-1.gif
This film raped my childhood. -
Have Cameron Diaz as Quinn trying desperatly to bust joker out of Arkham Asylum while catwoman or riddler cause chaos on Gotham. Harley finally gets him out at the end of the third with two-face's assistance, THEN recast joker in the possible fourth installment
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Is it better than Blair Witch 2?
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Eric Bana for The Riddler and Hugh Grant for the Penguin.
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I was an extra in the funeral scene and was told to dress for November weather (the scene was shot in August). I don't think this comes across in the movie. No one seems to act like it's cold out.
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Since they cant beat ledgers Joker, they should complete the trilogy with the fall of gotham to the crazies. Bring in a ton of villians. Have the false face society try to take over the criminal world with Black Mask, Catwoman, Firefly, Killer Croc and the criminals try and resist using people like Deadshot and Deathstroke. Have the criminals lose in the end with some adapting to the new order (like the Penguin).
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I think after the fanboy geek-gasm has subsided, a more sober analysis will reveal that The Dark Knight, as good as it is, simply isn't the best superhero movie of all time. A good movie, yes, but not the best. I would rank Spiderman-2, Superman:The Movie, Batman Begins and certainly Iron Man above TDK.
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They should limit him to one or two scenes just to introduce the new actor. One scene of him escaping from jail would be a good way to set up a fourth movie.
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The Dark Knight is certainly better than Batman Begins, Iron Man, and especially Superman II. No hillbilly sheriffs and redneck Texas towns.
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...and all you jackoffs who keep saying Daniel Day Lewis should do a Batman movie are fucking nuts. Same thing with Javier Bardem. Shut the fuck up.
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http://tinyurl.com/5aee7o. It'll hit 200m by Wednesday, probably.
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KNIGHTFALL.
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Jul 20, 2008 12:40:32 PM CDT
TDK had its flaws, but its still the best superhero movie ever
by bmacsmith
the performances and tension made up for its nagging plotholes and kinda gimped ending. Spiderman 2 was more solid from start to finish, but it just seems so silly and shallow now after watching this.
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he's fucking crazy, sure, but a different kind of crazy. he's more of a bully type. too strong. Joker is a pussy. I could see Day Lewis being the dad responsible for fucking up the Joker so badly he went insane.
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It's obvious! His work on batman/superman/JL/Batman beyond was the best DC stuff outside the comics. I don't know why Warner doesn't hire him to at least write the live action stuff!
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THAT was exactly my biggest problem with TDK. The movie ENDED, and then it KEPT GOING and took the wind out of the sails. It neutered the Joker, Batman, and Gordon, and capsulized Two-Face's first go-round into 40 minutes of nothing interesting (especially when compared to the Joker's earlier antics).
They should have ended the movie with the Two-Face reveal, Bruce in mourning, and the Joker laughing. This ending felt like studio pressure to "finish it up".
I still like this movie a lot--- I just think it had some really sloppy choices that detracted from the end result. -
Just call the next one "Gotham." They really spent so much time focusing on Batman trying to save Gotham and it getting worse, I see the next one being about Gotham finally stepping up to save itself and not relying on the white or dark knight to do it for them. I like the idea of Bane, done right, and Batman having one final REALISTIC enemy to battle. That's assuming they're not going to do Joker again.
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Like Begins, the whole city goes to hell, but for some reason everyone in Gotham knows Harvey killed these few? Silly shit.
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but i will be in 4 days when it opens here in the uk on thursday 24th July. i am one of these ppl who doesnt mind reading spoilers before seeing a movie, and having read this talkback as well as the recent reviews, i feel like i know exactly what to expect ..... a great batman movie, where our hero winds up being the bad guy in the publics eye, what a neat twist, how bittersweet and effecting must that be, to end on that note, brave, brilliant, the things that slightly worry me are the complaints of harveys transission from nice guy to maniac, that it seems forced and implausible, the comparisons im reading how this part of the movie resembles the treatment given to venom in spiderman 3, another worry is this ferry scene, ppl seem to hate it, and apparently bales voice is fine when beating the shit out of ppl but not when hes making long sweet speeches, so i guess ill be able to know for sure soon enough, but as things stand now, i am confident that that this will be the smartest, most ambitious comic book movie to date.
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If I was forced to nit pick, what would have added to the fall of Harvey would have been a Darkman moment. If he saw himself in a mirror and at first felt sorry for himself, and then became enraged with hatred....That would have helped out the transformation.
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until you guys started talking about it. FUCK!
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I wonder about those things..
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All,
well, got the chance yesterday in a packed theater to see the film of the summer. As excited as I as by IRON MAN and surprised by THE HULK and as giddy as I was to see INDY and indifferent to see X FILES2, I go to see DK with the mrs. So here we go.
Firstly, this is a very very good film. The psychological elements, the thematic journey that every character takes, and the production values are through the roof. The first film is the best superhero film since SUPERMAN with Chris Reeves, so this one had a lot to live up to. It does its job for the most part. Its not the second coming, as everyone is fond of climbing on that train and hollering, but its about80% awesome and that's better then anything so far this summer.
The first flaw is that this a LONG LONG movie. Its like a really long movie. Whereas the first film was about this length, and my son says that he can feel how long it is, I did not. the first moves effortlessly in a fast moving story and it never lets up. I was on the edge of my seat in the theater when batmen and the bad guy were fighting in the train car high over the city. KNIGHT feels like 2 really good films spliced together and the last half hour is a muddled affair of sonar battles in dark buildings, who will blow up the ferry boat first teeth nashigs, and about 5 endings to a film that should end already. Oh, lets now also go find Dent and try and rescue Gordon and the kids. Sheesh. After near half hour of trailers before it even started, an hour wait in line, by this last act its getting long winded. The whole disjointed opening of introducing the joker, swinging back to grab the scarecrow (who is unnamed so if you didn't see the first film - tough luck) and his batman dressed goons (!?!), the journey to Hong Kong (!) to do a black ops extraction of a Drug Lord(!) was an odd way to get this film started. The middle joker vs batman stuff was one of the best suspense sequences ever! that was some stuff!
As for the twist ending of Batman saying he did the 2 face murders and becoming a hunted dog, It may have worked better had the film's 3rd act been what was falsely rumored on the street: Two face gets scarred, and he stays good, and goes after everyone in a team up with Batman but crosses every line that Batman cant. He kills, he rapes, he explodes, he tortures, all the while thinking hes in line with batman. He is taken down and killed, and to cover up Dents murders he says he did all dents crimes. Otherwise Dent comes off as just simply a scarred up Charles Bronson in Death Wish going after all his lovers murderers. An odd way to pan him out from being a "White Knight".
Last lame element - As in the first batman, that "deep voice of batman" is just awful. It ruined any scene where he talked last time, and its even worse now. ANYONE who talks like that for more then 2 words will sound terrible. As a reviewer said " I LOVE Batman's voice when he's fucking people up, but having him talk like that during his heartfelt speech about Dent was unintentionally hilarious. Dude needed some Sucrets big time."
Leger IS the joker. That was some great acting. I liked how you never got his origin, you never know why he is. That goes a long way from making everyone responsible for creating spider man or batman or robin by killing parents. This joker oozes psycho and you really don't want to be near him.
The beating a confession out of the joker, and then going to 2 addresses was the best part of the film. I love the story telling technique of cutting away between 4 different things going on at the same time. Its very 24. Batman finding dent vs his love was great, batman not getting dent out in time and his face being burned was great, joker as nurse...Joker as someone who does magic tricks with a pen, joker as someone who wants a phone call....too too awesome.
I was shocked that Gordon dies! that was some cutting edge stuff, so the whole audience cheered when they saw in rise from the dead. Very sweet. Lucius Fox is awesome. I want him on my team!! (even if he has to man a 2000 screen bat sonar device. Seriously, that's approaching high camp.)
All in all, I really have no burning need to re watch this like lets go today and drink in every detail again. It was very good, a bit disjointed and long winded, and I will enjoy it on DVD. it didn't drop off like superman III from Superman II, so we are still in outstanding ballpark here. Its just my observations of what could have trimmed the fat to make this 6 out of 5 stars, vs the WCME score of 4.5 stars. Still, that's top drawer. -
the fact that Harry's reviews for 'Fantastic Four 2' and 'Spider-Man 3' were more enthusiastic than this one.
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I actually agree that Spiderman 2 was a better film. As I said earlier darker does not necessarily mean more complex and I think both are relatively straight forward morality tales. They're not dumb films, but they're also not Un Chien Andalus.
Raimi looked at the fact that he was making a comic book film and realized that gave him permission to do whatever he wanted visually. Hidden in that movie is decades of film history stitched together to form a cohesive whole. You want 50's sci-fi it's there. You want 80's horror it's there. You want 60's comedy it's there. It's a love letter by Raimi to the film. In a way it reminds me of Tarantino's latter work, but far more cohesive than Tarantino has been able to accomplish in recent years.
That being said, The Dark Knight is the opposite of Spiderman 2 visually. Still breathtaking in parts, it doesn't feel like a maestro controlling huge segments of an orchestra at one time. It's very much controlled. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It allows The Dark Knight to create an incredibly tense and satisfying plot that didn't exist in the Spiderman movies. However, for my money Spiderman 2 shows an audience things you can't get from anything other than a comic book movie. That is why I believe it is superior. -
He's the only guy who could pull off the maniacal but excellent performance given by Ledger. Ledger has set the standard for who and what the Joker should be in this franchise. Depp is the ideal person to emulate it. Riddler on the other hand. He and the Penguin characters are too wacky to include in Nolan's franchise. Besides, with Two Face unleashed, why would you need to add another villain for the third movie? For Batman 3, reverse the villain roles - have Two Face be Batman's main foil with the Joker thrown in as support.
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This felt like two films skillfully mashed together. I would say if they had ended it with Joker's escape, and the fallout of the Dent/Rachel tragedy. They could have put out another film in the fall which concluded the story and given Dent's TwoFace a little more time to fall apart. There came a point during TDK where I thought back on an earlier scene and I was like, "that was in the same movie?!"
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Alan Rickman, period. In this world of Batman, Rickman would light up the screen, no doubt...
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'Nuff said.
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he loves that campy shit. i suspect he would have liked this more if it involved Batman and Robin prancing around in tights hitting people with big cartoon "WHAM"s and "POW"S
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He's got the creepy and intelligent thing going on
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he wasn't meant to take over the Joker role or cause more destruction. he just represented what the Joker and Batman were fighting over. Please, stop hoping he comes back. that would cheapen the whole movie! Thats the reason shitty sequels keep getting made! Let it go.
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We got three of the most entertaining and well made comic films ever in Iron Man, Hulk (yeah I mean it) and HellBoy 2. But while they were all wonderful, and made it the best movie summer in years, they were all ultimately escapist fantasy movies. Popcorn rules, so don't get me wrong. But for the ride to culminate with Batman (saw it last night in Imax) just took it to a zenith. Nolan has made a film that holds its own against the greatest crime dramas ever made and should take his place with Scorsese, Copolla, Frankenheimer, etc. Comic films have become film with his Batman. BEGINS showed us how realism could change the course of a well-worn mythos that had been Disneyfied into oblivion by Hollywood, and now we know it was just a setup. DK brigns us the rest of the way into this new Bat-reality where suspension of disbelief is no longer required. Shit, on the way home on the freeway, I was jsut waiting to see the Pod come screaming by, passing me on its way to wherever our "silent guardian" needed to go to save our asses next. I was sold by every performance, entranced by Ledger's Joker, and wrapped up tight the whole way (the only exception was Bale's bat-voice--that kind got old). But, you know, at least is was consistent and served the story. Nolan has thrown down the blade-shooting bat-gauntlet. Anyone who has the guts to make a comic film now has a BIG shadow to escape. I hope Zack Snyder can deal with it.
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Eckhart said he's back for the third movie on a talkshow. What, is he gonna play someone else?
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All the fanboys had been talking this one up to the point that I knew I would be underwhelmed. And I thought that Batman Begins was pretty good, but certainly over-long, not as focused toward the end. My patience lagged for about five minutes during (spoilers) Batman's final attack on the Joker's henchmen, where the sonar shit was way over done in the uncompleted building (end spoiler) but other than that this very long movie never actually felt it. It was smart, it was edgy, it was funny, it was badass. Felt like HEAT (a movie that would be great at two hours) despite costumes and all of that. NOLAN EVEN ROCKED AT ACTION SEQUENCES THIS TIME OUT!!! Movie of the summer, best of the superhero films, best of the Batmans. Now, let's get the studios to quit making superhero movies for five years. Five years. Then, if there's still anything to do with the genre that they feel like trotting out, have at it. But, God please, no more superhero movies. Make action movies. Make Thrillers (The new French movie Tell No One almost feels like a classic if only because those types of movies aren't made anymore). Make crime dramas. Find something else!!! Adapt comic books that aren't supernatural (Criminal by Brubaker, Scalped by Jason Aaron). SOMETHING other than dudes in costumes. Dark Knight didn't rejuvenate the genre, it closed the book on it.
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Because really he looks dead... But come on! And if you read the comics I think we all know where they are going with this. Because for the third film they will not do the Joker again even though we nerds encourage it the public will cry and bitch over it. So no Joker. And no Two Face. Then what will the menace in the third film be? Who really can stand alone and be the main threat? Riddler? Clay face... Not really anyone unless they bring back the League of Shadows which without a twist would just come off as boring. I totally believe they will use the Hugh story line and toss in some other baddies: Riddler or Penguin and possibly Scar Crow again. Dent's story is not finished and Batman needs someone awsome to face off against in the third film.
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Let's not forget that this movie also serves up the same light humor, warmth and tech toys that have always been a beloved part of the Batman Universe. I think it's got enough popcorn fun in it to balance its weighty issues.
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If you pay attention, that darker side of Dent bubbles up to the surface numerous times. The guy is simply intense and you can see him trying to control the darker apects of his personality. Two Face was there during the whole film, he just wasn't scarred until the last third.
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His scene with the thug and the gun shows his darker side clearly
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were playing the same character until about halfway through. not that it matters. the chicks in these movies are usually pretty forgettable. but it was cool how Joker fucked over batman and tricked him into saving Dent instead of her.
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That everyone totally fergot about Hellboy 2. I enjoyed that movie a lot more then Batman With A Vengeance. Both amazingly good movies, just Hellboy 2 didn't have its camera stuck in a tilt a whirl the whole time, almost throw up with all the circling done in Die Hard With a Batman.
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Perfect name for a troll, well done
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Underground tech rooms? Like in a movie aiming for real, it seemed like Bruce could magically get people to build his stuff and not question/realize that it was for Batman. Also I liked how Joker could always just get people to follow him to easily, like criminals never read the Daily Bugle.
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I actually thought the camera work was very good and much better than Begins. The fight scenes were infinitely better. As to the thugs following the Joker, I’d chalk it up to a mixture of greed and desperation.
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just watched it again, so many little awesome details...
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Certainly too good for the type of person who gets confused when one scene is night and the next scene is daylight. What happened? Did time pass? I just can't figure it out!
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was a nice casting choice. I also liked the references to THUNDERBALL and FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.
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DeNiro's Max Cady = Ledger's Joker...
Only difference is Joker doesn't rape anybody (at least on screen)... -
Bane. Have Bruce/Batman fight Bane in the same way they battle in Knightfall - Bruce/Batman is ultimately defeated and broken. News makes its way around Gotham and, as his identity is learned, many come and ask to take over the mantle. Thus Gotham finally gives Bruce Wayne recognition and respect for his hard work and ideals, and publicly states that Batman is necessary in a city filled with such crime and corruption.
Enter new batman. Trilogy over. -
Fox only said he would quit if Wayne kept the sonar device. In the end, you see him walking away from it while it appears to be falling apart (sparks are flying and it looks to be shutting down). I was under the impression Lucius destroyed it after they got the Joker.
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Jul 20, 2008 2:45:52 PM CDT
Did anyone else think that that one cop The Joker held hostage..
by kdog69
...at the police station looked a lot like Harvey Bullock? I'm pretty sure that guy was suppose to be him during the whole film. Under the credits I think he's just called "acting commissioner", but I think Nolan intended him to be Bullock. Also nice Batgirl cameo at the end. Best. Movie. Ever.
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No way! Are you nuts? T2 is overrated, TDK was a goddamn masterpiece. I do think some people are taking it a little too far, but the praise is deserved here. I like you, man, and I know you're one of the good ones here, but I really do think that the praise and hype is deserved here. And Ledgers performance is nothing short of legendary.
I guess it comes down to personal taste. I really liked IRON MAN too, but I don't think it even comes close to TDK in terms of craft or skill or presentation; really it was pretty typical / pedestrian. But given that you liked Batman Forever more than TDK (how could you?) shows me that you like this stuff more towards the cartoonish / light-hearted side. Which is cool, I like that kind of stuff too (for instance, I friggin' loved SPEED RACER), but TDK is something else entirely. Its like an operatic modern myth. I think that tone may be too oppressive for some, but I love that shit as much as I do the campy / fun / silly stuff. I think IRON MAN, as cool as it was, veered much closer to camp / fun / silliness whereas TDK veers closer to Greek Tragedy. Maybe there is some cognitive dissonance going on watching a movie with such weighty themes being carried along by a couple of guys in fetish costumes beating the crap out of each other and driving race-car-tanks 'till they explode. -
thank god it took the record from that shit called spidey 3.
I have to wonder all you who are saying daniel day lewis should play whoever in the third...does anyone really think he would sign onto a batman film? -
these movies come out every 3 years. If they are good, how is this a valid complaint.
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i've always wondered why it doesnt get as much shit as Batman and Robin. Its about as bad. I guess its because Jim Carrey was too hot. i watched the 89 Batman again a few weeks ago and couldnt believe how terrible it was. I liked it as a kid but my god, its a really bad movie. Jack's Joker should just be forgotten. Completely forgotten.
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Jul 20, 2008 3:00:56 PM CDT
Yackbacker, it's good to finally be ont he same side of...
by industrykiller!
the fence for something on the positive side.
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Jul 20, 2008 3:02:33 PM CDT
Don't sweat it guys TomBodet always said he loves cheese
by industrykiller!
The guy likes his entertainment low brow and silly, he's said that many times. It's just what he's into. He didn't say Batman Forever was a BETTER film, at least I don't think that's what he's saying. What are you saying Tom?
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Again
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Giant Bat Bots!
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by giving his powers to some lame ass brit special forces guy. Now when the Captain America movie comes out people wont be impressed by him at all since we've already seen it. that really bugged me about that movie. otherwise it was nice. just nice.
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And then ask how The Joker got all those explosives. it is a superhero movie and your suspension of disbelief has to extend AT LEAST that far for it to be worthwhile to put something up on screen. It's just nitpicking of the highest order, like griping about how no one can tell that Bruce Wayne is Batman just by looking at them.
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was having too much fun watching Joker blow shit up real good.
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weren't they all pretty much just industrial cans filled with gasoline and a bit of wiring? Cheap and easy to get, especially for someone who is pretty much in control of all of Gotham's mob. You could put a handful of guys on something like that. The Joker even explained that his stuff was cheap and ordinary.
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good movie
however i dont understand the whole plot of having gordon faking his death. how did gordon set it up? did batman know gordon faked it? did dent know? -
This film was totally perfect! It seems lots of people think Two Face is dead but he's totally not dead! He's probably in Arkham....they didn't want the people of Gotham to know what really happened to the White Knight! Heath was amazing and I really don't know if they should replace him. I'm so torn between wanting to see more Joker and wanting them to just stick with Heath's AMAZING and TERRIFYING performance in Nolan's Batman movies! I think for the most part I just want them to leave it alone and let Heath reign as the Joker for a decade or so!
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this film has SERIOUS spidey 2 syndrome. it raised the bar over it's predecesor, markedly, and made it almost impossible for the third film to top the second. that being said, spidey had venom to look forward to (even though they botched it). batman -- he's got NO ONE. Joker is his arch villain, the yin to his yang, the lisa marie to his michael jackson -- you get the picture. I'm pretty damn sure they intended to bring the clown prince of crime back for the third one. nolan said burton's biggest mistake was killing off the joker. yeah -- because the joker is too damn good to use only once. nolan's setting all kinds of standards here, so why wouldn't he bring the same villain back for his third film? magneto was in THREE x-men films, and that worked pretty damn well (for two of them). joker will be back, and after seeing ledger's performance, the only person who could emulate him is johnny depp. i would have NEVER picked johnny before seeing ledger's performance, but now that I have -- he'd work. and he's big enough of a star that it would be accepted by the masses.
that is all. -
heath was AMAZING, but it wasn't his idea to do the insane shit the joker does in this film -- the credit there belongs to the brothers nolan. kudos to them for upping the ante. and kudos to Chris for having the foresight to cast heath, to begin with. he's definitely proving his worth as a director right now...
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That is all
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Jul 20, 2008 3:24:06 PM CDT
My meeting with actor CHRISTIAN BALE, and thoughts on the Dark K
by andres.u
First, a disclaimer: Even though I'm a huge fan of Batman Begins, Nolan's and Bale's work, and have been a Batman fan all my life, I hadn't seen The Dark Knight yesterday at noon when I met actor Christian Bale. (I did see it later in the day, more about that below) So, Christian and I didn't talk much about this awesome work of art. Sorry. I said SORRY! but I thought you guys would appreciate our discussion about other films...
to start with something sort of batman related...
Christian liked a drawing of Batman that I had left, accidentally but oh how conveniently, amongst my sketches for a project of mine I was telling him about.... (Waking Shadows, the feature film version of my short Vana Espuma )so I autographed the Batman drawing and gave it to him ( no kidding! ). The meeting took place in Culver City around noon and we talked about many projects but this is what little I think I can dish out: Killing Pablo... Bale has been in talks with Joe Carnahan on this story of Colombian Mafioso Pablo Escobar, he loves the script but the money people are trying to place many name actors in roles that Christian feels should go to Colombian unknown actors. There is a rift between how "hollywood", or how realistic the movie should be, with Carnahan and Bale on one side and the suits on the other... guess who's on which side. Yup, as most of you know both Bale and Carnahan have shown great artistic integrity throughout their careers. Christian doesn't paint the producers as villains, merely recognizes that they are thinking only, or mostly in terms of money, that's it. Oh, and also, Christian told me there is the issue of timing, as Oliver Stone is competing with a similar project based on another book related to the events. We also talked a lot about writing and in particular the work of Joe's brother, Matthew Carnahan who we very much admire as a writer.
Speaking of artistic integrity... I told Christian I never thought I'd see his name and McG's together on the same credit sequence, referring to the upcoming Terminator: Salvation, and he grew quiet for a little bit and finally he said, this is very different from everything McGinty, as he refers to him, has done so far. I sure hope so.
I asked him about working with a director I greatly admire, Werner Herzog (on Rescue Dawn) and I'm happy to report that the two are good friends and are in the very early stages of developing another project together. Here's hoping another Herzog/Bale collaboration materializes. We also talked about one of my projects and since he's going out of town he wrote on my sketchbook an address of where to send the new material. Christian is going on a trip with his family so we said goodbye. He struck me as a very passionate man who deeply cares about his work and the many aspects of production . I thought he would be taller for some reason, but he's personality and his looks are those of a regular guy, with very short hair and a bit of a graying beard growing at the moment, part of John Connor look for terminator i'm sure. There is also a dark edge and real intensity to the guy, I guess it's that factor that made him perfect for Batman and so many roles. But overall very friendly and his wife is an absolute sweetheart. I also discovered that Batman, who would've thought, is quite the family man.
Later in the afternoon I
saw the Dark Knight and it completely blew me away.
It's been a while since I've so stunned by a movie. This thing almost knocked me off my seat. Dark Knight is now my favorite comic book movie by far (X2, Batman Begins, Donner's Superman, and bit of SpiderMan 2 and Iron Man have all fallen behind). In fact, it's now amongst my overall favorites.
Now, no movie is perfect and I can't help but nitpick when I'm so impressed by a film.
Let's start with the little things... some of the stuff from the production design...
I liked Batman's suit better in Batman Begins, this one looked more like extreme-sport gear, probably more functional and comfortable specially on the neck, but I liked the more simple black suit from the last film. IT was more iconic. And I agreed with Christians' previous statement that the wide neck he wore in BB made him look more like beast ready to pounce, this one just looked more like helmet than a cowl. The Batcave, very functional looking but too much like a corporate hq with that fluorescent ceiling which I dreaded.
Christian's performance was very effective, though while some lines really work on that rugged and intimidating Batman voice, I found some other lines that were more expository and were harder to take seriously the way he was speaking them, of course he must keep his Bruce voice from being recognize but this would be less of a factor when he's talking to people who already know his identity.
The Joker was simply put, one of the most memorable performances in recent history. Heath Ledger deserves the rumored Oscar for this. What a great loss, not only obvious human toll on his family but for us filmmakers an film fans... this guy was just getting started. Speaking strictly as a Batman fan I was also saddened by the fact that I'd never see this Joker ever again. One I'm sure won't be surpassed in a long long time, if ever. This Joker was actually frightening, the closest film counterpart to the one imagined by Alan Moore in his short graphic novel The Killing Joke. (Brian Bolland's artwork in this is also FANTASTIC).
The performances were great all around and I thought Maggie Gyllenhaal was a much better fit as Rachel Dawes amongst Nolan's carefully chosen cast than Katie Holmes ever was. Gary Oldman, a great actor who I thought was rather weak in the first film, is settling in nicely into his role as newly appointed Commissioner Gordon, pretty closely based on the Gordon from Miller's Batman: Year One. Year One is probably my favorite Batman graphic novel of all time, with beautiful art by David Mazzuchelli. I was actually sad to find out that in an effort not to repeat himself Miller's own version of the Year One screenplay was far in style and quality from his original work and transformed the Batman Mythos to such a radical degree that it ended up being unacceptable to Warner Bros and would have been to many fans. That film would have gone into production with none other than Darren Aronofsky at the helm, a visionary director in his own right (Requiem for a Dream) that I certainly hope gets to play within the super hero realm some day. But thankfully it was Nolan's version that earned a greenlight and has now spawned this brilliant sequel.
The writing was incredible, I was completely imbued in the story and there was only one line that brought me out the spell, it was very much typical movie exposition when Lucious Fox found out what Batman was doing with the cell phones and he himself explained in detail for the audience to understand. He could've been shorter and more subtle and we would have gotten it, he could undrstood part of it and have to ask Bruce for the rest and they would have had a motivation to deliver this information, instead of simply clarifying it for the audience... but like I said, nitpicking.
This cellphone sonar however poses another problem for me. Overall the look of the movie was strikingly real. The CGI, kept to a minimum, was almost invisible. The story seemed to unfold in an achingly real world, close to our own, and there was something visceral and organic about it... except when Batman activated the sonar goggles in his mask, or whatever that was and suddenly we were back in the more typical sci/fi comicbook movie territory... not a bad place to be necessarily but one that clashed with the realism accomplished to this point.
The cinematography was incredible and very much worth watching on IMAX. Almost every frame had me salivating.
Most importantly this movie took Batman seriously and pulled no punches. The doomsday scenarios, which usually strike me as an obvious an inconsequential plot device, carried some moral weight in this film and put out serious questions in the process. Dark Knight showed what a darker, more adult comic book movie can be. And what a gift this is. Now we're all going to have to raise our game.
(BTW Alan Moore's Watchmen is my favorite graphic novel of all time, Hayter's script doesn't approach its complexity but seems like a good enough foundation for the film... I really like what Snyder is doing visually, but can't help but think that Paul Greengrass' version would have carried more gravitas, more weight... oh well...)
Andres Useche -
dont fool yourself into thinking he's the only actor in the world that could've played this part well... He (like everyone) can be replaced...
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Acting is an art just the way no one can replace Kubrick or Da Vinci
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man, they were just on TV and, wow, are they insipid piles of horse shit. is it possible to erase them from the jedi archives...
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While everyone here has expressed various opinions about the movie, and everyone is entitled I just find it hard to believe that I have seen some things like "this is slightly better then Batman Returns" posted. It almost seems like the movie was too intelligent for some people. While I don't like the word masterpiece, I'm smart enough to know that what I watched was a great story that was better then your simple bad guy vs. good guy movie.
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While everyone here has expressed various opinions about the movie, and everyone is entitled I just find it hard to believe that I have seen some things like "this is slightly better then Batman Returns" posted. It almost seems like the movie was too intelligent for some people. While I don't like the word masterpiece, I'm smart enough to know that what I watched was a great story that was better then your simple bad guy vs. good guy movie.
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yeah i just saw that too.. that was a really bad movie
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he's a character who's been around 70-plus years. yes, he can be replaced -- and no one will ever forget what heath brought to the role.
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he's a character who's been around 70-plus years. yes, he can be replaced -- and no one will ever forget what heath brought to the role.
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To call it the best "comic book" movie or "superhero" flick is an insult to its greatness... It's THAT good...
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Am I the only whose favorite character was, well, the title character? I really felt bale/batman's bad-assery in this film, and i absolutely LOVED it.
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Never thought I'd like it this much, especially since I wasn't blown away by BB. TDK is a fantasic stand-alone film, period, regardless of the genre.
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Jul 20, 2008 3:40:50 PM CDT
"almost" seems like the movie was too intelligent?
by the wolf at the door
I'd bet you're being charitable, Blood. I'm going to start counting the times I hear or read something along the lines of "Batman wasn't perfect / made choices I disagree with or can't understand" ... "the movie was too morally ambiguous" ... "there was too much character development" ... "I couldn't follow what was going on" ... "there was too much plot"
And for bonus points, you can say something like "but, but, but Batman is the smartest / second smartest guy in the DC universe ... and the world's best detective! Why wasn't he doing more smart stuff?!?" I've seen that comment a lot, or variations thereof, and I'd like to suggest to people that maybe "intelligence" isn't something you can throw into any situation and expect the "smart guy" to figure out the problem right away, as if "smartness" was like fucking "midichlorians" or Final Fantasy XP points or something.
It's bound to be "Superman Returns" all over for some people ... "b-b-b-but the Batman that I know would NEVER do that! Why isn't he just doing the right thing all the time and never having any ambiguity or ever letting someone get the better of him or ever faced with a problem that he didn't solve right away because he's the world most greatest detective ever?" -
It WOULD be the perfect sequel here, in some shape, way, or form.
Obviously, they wouldn't follow the graphic novel to a T, but it would make perfect sense to have the Joker go into a catatonic state once they throw him in Arkham. I mean, Bats is his purpose in life, and without bats -- he just doesn't care....especially if he hangs up the tights.
And someone's said it on here before -- so big ups to whoever that was -- but POWERS BOOTHE would be the ultimate old man wayne. -
It WOULD be the perfect sequel here, in some shape, way, or form.
Obviously, they wouldn't follow the graphic novel to a T, but it would make perfect sense to have the Joker go into a catatonic state once they throw him in Arkham. I mean, Bats is his purpose in life, and without bats -- he just doesn't care....especially if he hangs up the tights.
And someone's said it on here before -- so big ups to whoever that was -- but POWERS BOOTHE would be the ultimate old man wayne. -
...will likely be back in the next film to lend a helping hand to the villain.
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Batmna was my favorite character in this film as well. Fucking loved everything about him and his actions in this film.
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and wouldn't it make sense for the joker to return and jack him up? joker's weird like that.
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Of corse they can and will bring Joker back but there's NO WAY it should be done in Nolan's Batman films.
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but there were so many cool characters in this, and that's why it was ungodly. even old-school shitty b-actors like AMH and Eric Roberts. they suck, but the fact that they were in it was classic.
And i totally dig when bale puts on the asshole-fake-facade bruce wayne. total american psycho right there. -
would be a nice riddler, he seems uptight enough and dorky with a grudgy mean streak, plus it would be less embarassing if riddler was a non-movie star, and just a minor villain. the green suit and question mark while lame in theory could actually be quite cool. And howbou that wink for Catwoman when Lucious says to Bruce that the new Bat Suit material may hold up against cats.
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Just do Batman vs Gotham with Two face returning to cause all the damage.
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Jul 20, 2008 3:54:56 PM CDT
I loved Bruce Wayne scenes when he plays a clueless millionaire
by jackiegleasonufo
falling asleep, racing in his car and acting like he had no idea what wasg oing on. The billionaire drunkard act is really comforting. Probably becasue it's pretty much a side of Patrick Bateman which was also very much alive in his role in Shaft '99.
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is a total loser -- seriously, he is -- and i want joker to break out of arkham at some point and totally own his ass. he sorta did it in this movie with the hospital bit.
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Then we all have nothing to worry about, no matter who the villain or story but if Nolan doesn't return then.... well......Fuck.
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Directed by Brett Ratner, written by Diablo Cody !!!!
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this time, they're upping the diarrhea-on-film quotient and hiring JOHN WATERS to direct. i heard batman's gonna be wearing Love Pink wear from Victoria's Secret, and that Robin's going to be played by Harvey Firestein.
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It's like Bale pushes a button and he's automatically a rich, egotistical asshole. I love it... Nice touch with him throwing out the drink during the party too... This movie is full of "nice touches" (i.e. like the part where Harvey wakes up in the hospital and they mute his scream...)
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is going to play the leader of the mutant gang. yeah, this film's going to totally rock. And scarlett yohannson is going to be playing catwoman -- with a british accent. and david hyde pierce is going to play commissioner gordon. and the joker's going to be played by boy george.
in all seriouness, i have ZERO faith in WB. why should i? they allowed batman returns and batman and robin to exist -- period.
the color pallete in batman in robin was PINK -- PINK!!!!!!!!!! and what the hell was with the pink gorillas in that banquet scene where uma thurman dances to "Poison Ivy?" UGH!
Arnold ended his movie career with that movie, too. what an absolute travesty for him when his role in kingergarten cop looks like charles foster kane compared to his work as Mr. Freeze.
Freeze in hell? UNACCEPTABLE.
yes, im ranting. and, no -- making fun of batman and robin never gets old.
bad dialogue, bad direction, bad acting, bad everything. UGH!!!!!!
crap on lucas all you want, guys, but batman and robin is a pop culture travesty -- probably the greatest of all time. name me a MAJOR property that's been butchered worse than that. g'head -- name ONE. you can't. it's not possible. and give me the prequels argument -- they weren't fettid like batman and robin. nor was indy. nor was FREDDY GOT FINGERED. nor was ishtar, nor was fantastic four. hell, even glitter was better than batman and robin. -
is going to play the leader of the mutant gang. yeah, this film's going to totally rock. And scarlett yohannson is going to be playing catwoman -- with a british accent. and david hyde pierce is going to play commissioner gordon. and the joker's going to be played by boy george.
in all seriouness, i have ZERO faith in WB. why should i? they allowed batman returns and batman and robin to exist -- period.
the color pallete in batman in robin was PINK -- PINK!!!!!!!!!! and what the hell was with the pink gorillas in that banquet scene where uma thurman dances to "Poison Ivy?" UGH!
Arnold ended his movie career with that movie, too. what an absolute travesty for him when his role in kingergarten cop looks like charles foster kane compared to his work as Mr. Freeze.
Freeze in hell? UNACCEPTABLE.
yes, im ranting. and, no -- making fun of batman and robin never gets old.
bad dialogue, bad direction, bad acting, bad everything. UGH!!!!!!
crap on lucas all you want, guys, but batman and robin is a pop culture travesty -- probably the greatest of all time. name me a MAJOR property that's been butchered worse than that. g'head -- name ONE. you can't. it's not possible. and give me the prequels argument -- they weren't fettid like batman and robin. nor was indy. nor was FREDDY GOT FINGERED. nor was ishtar, nor was fantastic four. hell, even glitter was better than batman and robin. -
damn, im happy that a film finally lived up to our LUDICROUS geek expectations. nolan deserves a medal for this. pleasing the geek crowd is nearly impossible, and he's pretty much done it. yeah, there're always detractors, but the vast majority of the people on this site really dug this flick.
and, in hindsight, it made iron man look insulting.
no disrespect to favs, but that's light, campy fare. this is the real dealio. -
$155 million. It beats Spiderman 3 record which is good because Spidey 3 is the worst fucking pile of crap I have ever seen. TDK was genius.
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it's gonna be big. bigger than i thought. im guessing it's gonna hit $400 million somthing, easily. first of all, most event films open to the tune of $120-$140 million these days. second, most event films' gross falls off significantly during the subsequent weeks -- because they suck. third, this film is a major event film...and it doesn't suck. in fact, it's pretty damn awesome.
when this is EASILY #1 over that Step Brothers baby-green doodoo next weekend, man, will i be happy.
finally, the dumbing down of the masses ends. thank you, nolan. -
in Batman 3. I demand the complete removal of Jim Carrey in Batman canon and this is how we accomplish that.
Of course there will be a 3rd Bale/Nolan Batman film. After all the cash that TDK is making and how solid both films actually are--this is now in the running for Greatest Tri-arc Franchise EVER--we will get a 3rd one.
I want to see Bane in the next film too. Or some villain from deep in the "storyline"... -
I see you can't name any. You can only throw a tantrum because, like most figures in the Hebrew Bible, Abraham was a worthless piece of shit who deserved to have one of his slaves rise up in the night and slit his throat - and you know there's really nothing you can say to that. If you went through the Old Testament and killed everybody who deserved to be killed, you'd be left with Moses and pretty much nobody else. And I'm sure there's lots of shit about Moses that just didn't make it in. Abraham - rapist and slaveowner. Yahweh - fugitive slave catcher. Since Judaism AND Christianity AND Islam all claim Abraham as an antecedent, I guess that means you pretty much are all corrupt scum.
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I don't get all these people saying they don't mind seeing heaths joker replaced just so they get more joker. What do you mean? No one is getting any more of what they got in TDK. Heaths joker is the joker you want more of..the only joker that counts...and that joker is gone FOREVER. Replacement doesnt equal more Joker that you want to see.
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once nolan's done doing these films, it's back to the same old crap. god help us all.
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dare i say washed up (some of them) maybe 'B' character actors, rutger hauer, eric roberrts, anthony michael hall, Tiny Zeus, many of which may never be in a big film like this ever again and gives them a role and they all turn out to do a great job.
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he was WRITTEN well, too! if they gave him crappy things to do, his performance wouldn't have been as powerful. not to take anything away from heath -- the guy will forever be a legend now -- but good roles also come down to writing/direction.
heath was also in: the order, ten things i hate about you, the patriot, etc. eh.....garbage? yeah, garbage. and that's why people grimmaced when Nolan announced casting him as the joker. well, that and the fact that they had already pre-determined who they wanted to play the joker. there are some amazing actors out there, and if given the PROPER GROUNDWORK to play joker, they could do just that -- and well. Having seem this film, I'm firmly convinced that Nolan always intended to bring the joker back. this guy brought the lumber, and he brought it hard. how in the high holy hell is any villain going to top the absolute carnage he wrought upon Gotham in this film? sorry, guy, but the joker's coming back in part 3. i mean, if the crappy scarecrow gets a cameo, why not the clown prince?
and, again -- big ups to heath. he was a maestro in this film. -
If they use him he should be a minor character. You cant follow up such a great Joker performance with the boring Riddler. I understand he's the next most popular character but a focus on him would serious hurt the movie because let's face it-- he's not nearly as interesting as the Joker. He needs to be a minor character. Bring on Bane and his psychological warfare on Bats...Either way, the Dark Knight can't be topped. Its too good
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How about that line about "all the criminals that Dent put away"? He's got himself a potential Rogue's Gallery right there up and waiting for him ... I see this next one as Dent vs. Wayne with Gordon caught in the middle. How fucking delicious is that? Dent is set up as the White Knight but in truth is mad and out for revenge ... Batman is the rogue Black Knight but the city's best true hope against Two-Face. I have no idea what they would do plot wise ... but then I had no idea how they'd pull off the Joker. And they pulled it off in spades.
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"$200M opening weekend gross? Beating Titanic's all-time gross? $163M opening weekend gross? What the hell in Gotham's cesspool are you substance-abusers smoking? Coz, I seriously need to get me some. For the record the top 3 or 4 movies (the Spiderman and POTC, movies and sequels, Star Wars prequelss) with the highest opening weekend grosses pretty much all opened on Holiday weekends at the beginning of Summer or on the 4th of July holiday weekend. There's a very good reason why Studios position movies this way, furthermore, all of the aforementioned movies we're directly geared marketed and rated for that key demographic of Box Office minting audience - kids which as we all know = repeat viewings and parental accompaniment. So naturally, it goes without saying, that it's obviously the height of delusion and general insanity to imagine that a movie that's not going to enjoy the above mentioned advantages, is going to gross anywhere near $200M this weekend; or any other weekend for that matter. Hell, they'll be lucky to get anywhere near the $80 million that Iron Man did. But that's okay, because I'm likely talking to the same crowd that probably imagined that Serenity was the next Titanic and that Superman Returns would do "Spidey-like" numbers at the Box Office (Massawyrm's actual words, I believe; we all know how that one worked out - there's still trying to track down Bryan Singer's career.) So this post is probably an exercise in wasted logic anyway. TDK is probably going to be a good movie and likely an upgrade over the first (which, really isn't saying much, considering the ludicrosity of Batman Begins) and will likewise do decent numbers at the B.O. this weekend; I think they'll be lucky (and happy as a Studio - this is DC property after all) to make anything in the immediate neighbourhood of $60-70 Million. But barely. Outside of geekdom and your average Batman (batshit insane?) fan, no one really gives a crap about this movie. On the flip side, we'll gladly welcome you guys back to the world of the sane and the rational on Monday morning when you thud right back down to earth. But hey, it will do well on DVD sales, right? Right."
...sorry man, not trying to flame you, but saying you were flat out wrong would be an understatement. true, it didn't make 200 million or even 163 million, but it was alot closer to those numbers than the ones you projected it would make. looks like people really do give a crap about this movie, other than those "batshit insane fans". and it will only make more money as people see how popular it is and want to see what all the hype is about, plus people who see it two and three times. good day. -
Heath more credit than I would Nolan for the creation of this joker. There was alot of good writing but you can't write a legendary character. Its something magical that the actor is more responsible for than anyone else. Daniel Plainview was great more because of Daniel Day Lewis than because of PTA. In interviews cast members have said sometimes they put a camera on a steadicam and let Heath do what he wanted. Heath doing weird stuff like studying the way puppets move and spending a month in seclusion to go all method on the role are the things that made this character legendary. Thats what people want more of...and thats something no one else will give them. (p)I agree with the Kubrick/Da Vinci argument above.
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sorry, havent posted in a while, so im going bonkers, here. but, yeah, riddler blows. penguin ISNT going to be in nolan's universe, and catwoman, alone, couldnt sustain a film. i'm feelin' a batman-catwoman film, with the joker making an unleash-hell extended cameo at the end, wherein batman and catwoman fight him. ah, who am i kidding -- powers boothe for life.
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Much respect to Ledger for taking the ball and running with it but the writing was every bit as important to the role as was his performance. Any talented actor should've done a great job with this kind of part... Sure Ledger added his nuances to it that no one else would have but other good actors would've done well with it too...
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I was never a reader of the total Batman continuity, but I read most of the big one-offs like the Dark Knights, Killing Joke, Son of Demon, etc. Can anyone tell me what they see in the Riddler that fits into Nolan's Gotham? I just don't have any sense of a real and interesting character in the Riddler, and I don't see how he won't come off as a major downgrade after Joker and Two-Face.
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or like the zodiac giving clues to his killings and toying with the cops and Batman
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The Riddler is not the second best Batman villian behind the Joker. I don't think he is even in the top ten. The Dark Knight brought the Joker to life...the one in the comics, the one in the Killing Joke. It was true to the character. The Riddler isn't that type of character. He isn't Jigsaw or a serial killer. He just likes outsmarting people. Sure he is one of the most famous villians and I would say the best one from the Adam West years (Frank Gorshin was great) but I wouldnt want to see the character twisted to fit into the Nolan world. The Riddler fits in a different kind of movie but the third one has to resolve everything from the Dark Knight.
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Just based on the record number of theaters(many reporting sell-outs as soon as tickets went on sale) and the feedback from Fandango from more than five days ago, the idea that Dark Knight was going to do a weak first weekend was stupid. I hope it has the legs to stay in theaters for a long time.
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I'm definitly trying to be polite. As both a comic book and movie fan, I get irritated with how picky some of these fanboys can get. I try not to be one of those guys that puts down someone elses opinion, but it definitly seems like a few people just want to see an action movie. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but to even mention Returns in the same breath as TDK is just absurd. Your talking about a movie with penguins with rockets attached to their backs. Ya know? I personally think that TDK is a much better movie then Spidey 2, which I actually enjoy. Better acting and a better story. I also give up to Nolan and Warner Bros. for allowing them to put out a comic book movie that really stretched the boundaries of its PG-13 rating. WB could have easily cut some things out like the SPOILER bomb that was in the dudes stomach, thats pretty mean for a PG-13 movie, END SPOILER. I love the fact that Batman is in constant turmoil. There isn't another superhero movie where the character has as much to think about as in this one.
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but you HAVE to credit the Nolan's here. hell, credit Chris with CASTING heath, and credit them both for writing his kick-ass part. was heath amazing? well, duh. the guy is iconic now. but the joker isn't a one-and-done character...someone's going to play him again. and, honestly, someone's going to play him again in nolan's universe. but let's not fight about this crap, anyway. let's just be happy that we got a GREAT batman flick (which works very well as a stand alone...thank god), and that we great a great summer flick, period.
and let's thank the great cast, too. all of them. i was watching OSCAR WINNER tommy lee jones' rendition of two face today, and i wanted to vomit. seriously, what in the sam hell was he thinking when he signed on to do that crap? and what in the same hell was wrong with his character? he was some bizarre mish-mash of matthew lesko, jack's joker, and god only knows. his sugar and spice girls? uh, wtf? and jim carrey's riddler. god.help.us.all. that line where he says "then a god am IIIIIII," with this low-pitch rumble. poison. absolutely cinematic poison. please, if you haven't watched batman forever in a while -- do so. it's gonna be painful, but, MAN is it going to show you just how bad schumakckekrs batman films were. -
but you HAVE to credit the Nolan's here. hell, credit Chris with CASTING heath, and credit them both for writing his kick-ass part. was heath amazing? well, duh. the guy is iconic now. but the joker isn't a one-and-done character...someone's going to play him again. and, honestly, someone's going to play him again in nolan's universe. but let's not fight about this crap, anyway. let's just be happy that we got a GREAT batman flick (which works very well as a stand alone...thank god), and that we great a great summer flick, period.
and let's thank the great cast, too. all of them. i was watching OSCAR WINNER tommy lee jones' rendition of two face today, and i wanted to vomit. seriously, what in the sam hell was he thinking when he signed on to do that crap? and what in the same hell was wrong with his character? he was some bizarre mish-mash of matthew lesko, jack's joker, and god only knows. his sugar and spice girls? uh, wtf? and jim carrey's riddler. god.help.us.all. that line where he says "then a god am IIIIIII," with this low-pitch rumble. poison. absolutely cinematic poison. please, if you haven't watched batman forever in a while -- do so. it's gonna be painful, but, MAN is it going to show you just how bad schumakckekrs batman films were. -
I said "Superman Returns," not "Batman Returns." And I don't want to get down on anyone's opinion ... people like what they like, and don't what they don't. Whatever. It just kills me as a moviegoer myself when movies with complex plots, character development, and moral ambiguity get trashed by other moviegoers because they're too complex, character driven and morally ambiguous. "Whar's tha' 'spolsions!?! Why's tha' good guy doin' bad stuff?"
Nothing wrong with saying a movie didn't float your boat, but sweet Jesus, if we could have just more high-minded failures and less big 'splosion, CGI-fests that are nothing but safe, CEO-approved milquetoast nothings that disappear from your mind as soon as the credits start rolling. ("Incredible Hulk," I'm looking in your direction. And again, people liked that movie? Good for you! Rent it, buy it, watch it a million times. I have no doubt Hollywood will make a million more like it. But a "Dark Knight" is a rare treat, and I want Hollywood execs to know there's an audience for nightmares like this.) -
and then at the end of part 3, Dent shoots hush off of a rainy bridge. mmmmhmmmm
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Why is everyonedeciding that Riddler just doesn't fit in the "Nolanverse?" Neither would a Joker with joybuzzers and a gas that puts a smile on people's faces. So what did he do? He created his own interpretation of the character. Which is exactly what I would expect him to do if he chose to use the Riddler, Catwoman, etc in a 3rd film.
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Oh dude I wasn't referring to your statement at all man. I was referring to tyler durden way up there. Nah, I agree with you totally.
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Was that a little over the top??? I CAN NEVER TELL!!!
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but it's Citizen Kane in comparison to Batman and Robin... Still the Schumacher films really need to be forgotten once and for all. I just find it amazing that the Nolan "2" has completely surpassed the Burton "2" in every way, shape, and form.
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I definately give Nolan credit for casting him...and for the movie as a whole. Nolans one of the best directors out there right now. I am generally a strong believer that the director is more responsible when anything great happens in a film. But there are a few performances where I have to give the actor more credit. Performances that could only exist as they do because the actors work is completely genious.
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Jul 20, 2008 5:30:32 PM CDT
AreYouNotEntertained, here's why there's riddler hate...
by jarjarsjockstrap
he's a genius. swell. nolan's joker was/is a genius. riddler could be some 7-type john doe killer. great. Nolan's joker was a killer -- and he killed en masse. not one by one, like the riddler(could). and he also picked off the judge, the commissioner, and rachel, and harvey(basically). aw, screw it -- he did it all. the riddler has nothing to bring to the table. he's a downgrade. but, then again, all of batman's villains are a down-grade from the joker. but the riddler -- he's a MASSIVE downgrade. ugh.
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why bother arguing over this. we both agree that TDK is the shit. and we both agree that schumacher's batmans ARE shit.
Mrhazard, burton's films are now surpassed, yes. TDK is a genre masterpiece, and it helps tip the boat in nolan's favor. that notwithstanding, burton's films were the bomb back in the day. the original batman doesnt age well, but batman returns is still a trippy, enjoyable film. i dig it, man. it's weird, and i like burton's weirdness. but bale won me over BIG TIME in this film. he's the definitive batman, because he put's on that patrick-bateman-bruce-is-douche routine, and it works SO well. batman's a serious character, and bale plays him seriously. movies like TDK make me not give a crap about ironman, spider-man, etc. nolan rules.
if watchmen is done correct -- which it won't be EW reported that the ending IS different -- it should raise the bar, permanently. poor snyder. WB is so dick.
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I took a little heat in this TB for expressing my thoughts on the 9/11 analogy. DuPont went there too in her review, yet she only registers a total of three TBs that responded to her 9/11 comments as of this writing. Of those, one was favorable and the other two completely missed where she was coming from.I'm not surprised, of course. Just like I'm not surprised how the lefty AICN majority loves and supports the "kick-ass" Batman regardless of how his actions were so masterfully compared with those of the United States in recent years.
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Yeah, I could see that. She's Australian even, which fits in with the fact that Nolan seems to have a hard-on for hiring British or Australian actors for these Bat movies...
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Now I like aint it cool and everything they do, for us film geeks. But to say they give honest reviews is a lie. They dont give reviews the give spoilers! If you want a real TDK review go to myspace.com/martinjunior84 that us mu url, check out my blog and let me know what you think of a real film review!
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Now I like aint it cool and everything they do, for us film geeks. But to say they give honest reviews is a lie. They dont give reviews the give spoilers! If you want a real TDK review go to myspace.com/martinjunior84 that us mu url, check out my blog and let me know what you think of a real film review!
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Now I like aint it cool and everything they do, for us film geeks. But to say they give honest reviews is a lie. They dont give reviews the give spoilers! If you want a real TDK review go to myspace.com/martinjunior84 that us mu url, check out my blog and let me know what you think of a real film review!
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at the party. You're exactly right, little touches like this show you that the actors and filmmakers just KNOW these characters, inside and out, and have a respect for the mythology and world of Batman. I can't wait to see this again.
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I'm a pacifist and love playing violent video games. It's all about understanding the difference between reality and fiction.
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Jul 20, 2008 6:18:19 PM CDT
Anyone else think Heath's death will increase sales in a roundab
by billemic
No, not in the morbid curiousity of teenyboppers who say "Oh my God, he just died, we have to see his final movie," etc. But as I was sitting in the theater, the knowledge that this was my only chance to see Heath as Joker on the big screen - and the fact that he will tragically not be back for a third film - made me think, "I have to see this again, at least once, just to savor the experience." I know I'll never see Heath as the Joker again, which makes me sad as hell, but I think it's going to make the gross for this film soar as well.
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The Burton films were good for its time but look childish and corny in retrospect. Jack Nicholson shakin his ass to Prince just feel WRONG!!!
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Damn man, sorry to hear that this movie's bummed you out so much. It's not all about how big your body count is, though. The characters who I don't think really fit this vision are the more unbelievable half man/ crocodile types and people made of clay. *shrugs* I like the idea of making a third with Catwoman and Talia, with the latter a very crazy woman who sincerely believes that she can bring her father back from the dead.
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No, you didn't take heat for expressing your views, you took heat because you asked for rational discourse, made an impassioned plea not to be taken to task for being a conservative and then IMMEDIATELY launched into a multi-paragraph tirade about how all liberals, progressives, and left leaning people were incapable of having said discourse, are all unAmerican, and Obama is the second coming of Hitler. And this was in your first post! Before anyone even had a chance to react or respond or provide you with the rational discourse you pretended to want. You didn't want rational discourse, you wanted a fight. Another pointless partisan fight. Great. Welcome to the internets.
You caught heat, in other words, for being a RAGING hypocrite. I mean, shit, man, if your gonna start with a plea for rational discourse, and then IMMEDIATELY start attacking people before they even say anything? What the fuck did you think was going to happen? I mean, really, now! You don't see how you brought that on yourself? You don't see the RAGING hypocrisy there? Sheesh! I mean, one of my closest friends is pretty conservative, and I'm pretty progressive, but we get along just fine because we don't attack each other for such things. For the most part we don't talk about that stuff at all, and when it does come up, we debate, and argue, but its always good natured, usually jokey. You made that IMPOSSIBLE by your tone and by your unwarranted attacks. Period.
The change starts with you, man. I wish you the best of luck in getting over your deep seated rage at a world that has moved on and is increasingly becoming more and more progressive by the day. We can live together, you know, any maybe even learn from each other, but first you gotta put the sword down and be willing to have that conversation. I wish you the best of luck in finding that place within yourself. Peace. -
Tim Burton's Batman inhabits the retro classic world of Bob Kane's early 1940's stories. Nolan's Batman inhabits the gritty realistic world of Frank Miller's Batman Year One mixed with modern corporate America. Burton's retro-cinema world is emphasized by the fact that many of the scenes in the 1989 film are taken from classic Hollywood movies. For instance, the Axis chemical plant scene with Jack Napier is from the 1949 James Cagney film "White Heat". The Harvey Dent acceptance speech scene is from "Citizen Kane." The Jack Napier scene where he first removes his bandages to see his new "look" is from James Whale's "The Invisible Man." The cathedral scene at the end is obviously from Hitchcock's "Vertigo." Incorporating such classic cinema scenes into the '89 Batman further added to the timeless retro Bob Kane era Tim Burton was trying to invoke. On the other hand, many of the story elements and ideas from Nolan's "Batman Begins" and "Dark Knight" are from Frank Miller's world. For instance, the idea of Bruce having to bring a flower to the top of a mountain to be inducted into Rhas's organization is actually from Frank Miller's Elektra stories. The kidnapping of Gordon's family in TDK is from Miller's "Batman Year One," and so on and so on...
Point: Two different takes on Batman invoking different eras of the character. So lay off Tim Burton's 1989 masterpiece already. It's still tops in my book... -
I suggested Daniel Day Lewis for The Riddler, actually. Someone else said he should be The Joker, which I disagree with, unless we do a flash forward 20 years to where Batman and the Joker are both middle aged. I think DDL has the range to pull off The Riddler in a very menacing way, perhaps to rival Ledger's Joker. For Catwoman I'd nominate EVA GREEN, 100%. She'd be fantastic.
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HARRY....Javier Bardem...? Nice choice BUT....I would almost prefer that the Joker just be locked away in Arkham for a part 3...WHY mess with perfection? IS Dent dead? Maybe not?? I hope not at least....maybe a Chris Nolan style Riddler and Catwoman? Or Phillip Seymore Hoffman as the Penguin and the return of Ras 'al Guhl?
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... but Two Face not so much. Overall I liked the film I just felt it maybe should have ended (Spoiler) with Two face going into the bar and when the corrupt cop say "Harvey I thought you were dead?" and Face says half just have him flip the coin and blow him away. That way we could've gotten a more in depth analysis of how draastic a change Two Face has undergone in the third film. I liked Dent's story but his Two Face got the short end. As for Joker what can I say Heath nailed it. My favorite moment was the fake batman hostage video. After that you knew you were dealing with a frightening individual and the best representation of a comic book character ever to be put on film. I really will have to see it again to see how it holds up the second time but I don't have very many complaints.
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Yeah, right. Like he'd ever be caught dead playing a comic book character...
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other guy he killed was african-american....shoves a pencil through a guy's head, cuts ones face up, makes 3 battle each other to the death with a broken pool cue, shoots one in the face with a shotgun, shoots one with a silencer in the hospital....maybe i was just paying too much attention ahahha
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Burton and Nolan both treated the Batman films with care and respect. Burton's version is vintage Burton. you look at it and know it's a damn burton film. Nolan's version is realistic, gritty, and darker. you know it's a film made a legit director, nolan.
the only thing that's certain in this debate is that SCHUMACHER'S two films are WAYYYYYY below burton and nolan's.
batman's lore in film history is growing and growing, and we should ALL be happy.
eventually, making a batman film will be the ultimate comic pissing contest. each director/writer trying to outdo the other, as opposed to making totally off-the-path movies featuring pun-spewing icemen and pink-gorilla-suit wearing botanists. UGH UGH UGH.
AND ABOUT THE JOKER: I will only say this. Can we all agree that Jack Nicholson playing the joke is COOL in and of itself, his performance notwithstanding? And can we agree that heath was AMAZING? yes to both, yes? i would hope so. now, shut up. -
him and batman ARE destined to fight forever. his role doesn't have to be big, but it should exist in the film, nonetheless. nolan has made the character of batman LIKEABLE, unlike the schumacher crap and boring keaton version. keaton's my boy, but bale ...he's bale. i love bale the guy's awesome.
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There will be a huge debate in the upcoming months, should a comic book movie be serious or fun? Most comic book movies rely on the comic book character, the villain, and the action scenes and the plot is secondary, TDK relied on the plot, and everything else revolved around it. I personally loved the movie, cause I go to see movies to watch a good story, built around good indepth characters, and the action and everything else is gravy. This wasn't Batman's movie, it wasn't the Jokers movie, the movie was about morals and choices, and how everyone of these characters deals with them and the consequences of their actions. This was essentially a Silence of the Lambs/Heat type movie that just happened to have Batman/Joker in it to spice it up. Will Hollywood follow this recipe in future comic book films, or will they go back to the Comic Book character, Villian, and CGI to sell to the public? I have been looking for substance in my comic book movies for a long time, and I do feel this type of movie will split the public, as even though it is making a shit load of money, I don't think it is for everyone.
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Like Begins was an origin story, TDK was about the systematic destruction of 3 partners by a psychotic madman, and the third one should be like a street war setting. Here is what I think and the Nolan's are free to take my idea :P
Batman is hunted...more and more crazies are coming out just like Alfred, Harvey and Joker predicted that things will get worse before they get better. THis comes to its head when Bane arrives to take control of the chaos that organized crime in Gotham has become...to do what Batman cannot bring himself to do...become Lord of Gotham...force the city to behave and obey under his rule...infiltrate mob, police, politics, everything under his influence. First he has to break the Bat...he sets loose all these crazies on Gotham with a purpose....and then Batmans has to take them all down....these will be B-level Bat-villains like Maxie Zeus, Killer Croc, Ventriloquist, Poison Ivy, Calendar Man take your pick.... Then have Riddler as a kind of plot device...NOT the main villain (the character just doesnt have the legs to stand on by himself) a distraction whose madness penchant for riddles Bane uses to wear down Batman psychologically.... Then when he is ready...he takes down Batman, leaves him for dead, broken, and becomes king of Gotham. Batman needs to recover, regroup, rethink...he ends up going to ...wait for it....Ra's Al Ghul for help!!! While Gordon and GPD is left to deal with Bane's new rule Ra's agrees....but has his own machinations of course (a la Magneto's role in X-Men United)...setting up for the mother of all final showdowns!!!! -
Batman is is VERRRRRY capable hands. The $155 million record open assures that. this shit works, and it works well. unlike spiderman, there is no venom waiting in the wings to mess up the series' progression. this is a good situation, here, pending nolan comes back to direct a third. i mean, these things come in three, and i'd like to wrap this bad boy up, somehow.
ultimately, the joker should die, and he didn't die in this film. they need to wrap up his arch in THIS universe. also, i would LOVE to see ras come back. guys, wouldnt a ras/joker/maybe catwoman film ultimately rock the hardest. i dont seee the need to add more villains, here. this isn't spider-man (who, quite frankly, has the coolest set of villains....EVER). batman's got THE JOKER....and everyone else. -
(and undying Heath supporters, back me up here...)"...become Lord of Gotham...force the city to behave and obey under his rule...infiltrate mob, police, politics, everything under his influence." Dogmatic, it's a cool idea, but didn't the joker do that in TDK? He had gotham EVACUATING by film's end. the dude ranked ass on gotham, batman, dent, the police, the mob -- everyone. he IS CANT BE TOPPED. that's why he needs to come back
i DO dig ra's coming back to help batman deal with the joker, though.
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Honestly, the actors were so good and the roles so well written that at times I found myself loving the idea of getting a movie that focuses on the Major Crimes Unit of the Gotham Police Dept. The actors playing Gordon's people were great and superbly written...to see more of Ramirez's story, the guy that Joker got the drop on in the interrogation room, the black guy, and of course Gary Oldman leading the movie as Comm. Gordon!! Batman could make a cameo if Bale was up for it...but they could seriously support a movie of their own with this kind of quality! I'd see it! What you guys think?
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Matthew Lesko, the infomercial dork in the question-mark suit. Batman beats him to death before the opening credits.
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Are we all in agreeance that Gary Oldman was just superb in TDK. I mean, absolutely kick-ass superb, in every way. Man, i love that guy.
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"No, you didn't take heat for expressing your views, you took heat because you asked for rational discourse, made an impassioned plea not to be taken to task for being a conservative and then IMMEDIATELY launched into a multi-paragraph tirade about how all liberals, progressives, and left leaning people were incapable of having said discourse, are all unAmerican, and Obama is the second coming of Hitler."Wow. What a masterful display of subjective misinterpretation. In my initial post, I merely intended to set the tone that I wasn't interested in any knee-jerk demagoguery from the far AICN left -- of which there is an undeniable vast majority. And every response from you has been precisely that.Did you read anything from the self-proclaimed liberal antonphd in response to my TB? For some reason, he didn't arrive at the same conclusions as you.I'm a big fan of accurate history and absolute truths. All our TBs are up there for interested parties to read.BTW, I would never make claim that Obama is the second coming of Hitler. In fact, he's the second coming of Carter. Only bathed in cosmic, vita, and gamma rays, further fueled by Kryptonian blood powered by our yellow sun."And this was in your first post! Before anyone even had a chance to react or respond or provide you with the rational discourse you pretended to want. [...] I mean, shit, man, if your gonna start with a plea for rational discourse, and then IMMEDIATELY start attacking people before they even say anything? What the fuck did you think was going to happen?"Do you have any idea what website you are reading at this very moment? You must. Not 15 minutes goes by without a new venom spewing post from you in some TB or other. Just imagine what it's like here when you're in the political minority. Sorry if I didn't set the tone of my TB comfortably enough for you. Usually, I get the knee-jerk, atypical "invective spewing neocon cretin" assaults... oh wait!Incidentally, it was quite nice at the beach today, despite the 30% chance of thunderstorms...
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that guy was born to play the riddler. he should challenge james carrey to mortal kombat for supremacy of that shitty character.
"jooooooooooygasm!" -
nigma.) Val Kilmer as batman. Man, oh, MAN. awful. why does he looklike the geico caveman?
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it is just a sad fact that Ledger is gone and I just am COMPLETELY against the idea of recasting him. As long as Heath is gone Joker should not be part of Nolan's Bat-verse. That is just a sad example of the real world affecting the film world. So I was trying to think of what to do since that is the situation we are in. Yeah, Joker infiltrated everything...but he did it just to tear it apart from the inside and show it how silly it was. Bane would take it over to force it into order...his order...but not disorder and anarchy like Joker. And Batman would have to walk the line to find the balance between the crazies like Joker's kind and Ra's Al Ghul's equalizing ideology and Bane's rule with an iron fist ideology in order to lead his city safely through to the other side....to the dawn that Harvey spoke of. That is what I meant by my idea.
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C'mon, guys. Apart from Brokeback, what monumental accomplishment has he made as an actor? Yes, I fully admit as a Batman Begins hater that I truly loathed the idea of Ledger as the Joker -- UNTIL I personally witnessed his performance. Yes, he does indeed live up to the hype.But which of his roles that came before justly lionize him in such fashion? First Knight? The Patriot? Brothers Grimm? The FUCKING Order? Please.I believe the angsty 2003 Hulk can peacefully co-exist with the 2008 Hulk brawl fest. Just like I believe Nicholson's take on the character can peacefully exist alongside the angsty Dark Knight version. Only I believe that it would be a crime for Ledger to win an Oscar when Nicholson did not.Do any of you people remember how you felt in 1989? Batman rocked. It single-handedly recovered the superhero genre after Superman's and Marvel's failures at the box office. Were it not for that film, we would not be enjoying the movies we are seeing today.
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but yes, I am in agreement with you, Oldman is one of the greatest actors working
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Is a good idea. He's like a Saw type killer.
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I think I would prefer it that only Gordon and a select few at Arkaham know that Two Face is alive. Batman left before finding out what was left of Dent, and the service probably led him to think Dent was dead. Gordon's little secret would add tons of tension to the next one. It almost makes me wish for Nolan's version of Harley, as she continues on with the Joker's story of twisting society nicely. You don't even need the Joker, but you still show his impact. Even when you lock him up he is still damaging Gotham. Harley would have knowledge about Two Face and could use it against Gordon while carrying on nicely as a Joker surrogate. You could also really put Batman's code to the test. Gordon is now Gotham's white night and the very existance of Two Face threatens that. Add Harley into the mix and Bruce is forced to rethink his decision to letting the Joker live, because it only inspired more horror for the people of Gotham.
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and gordon are the only effectual members of a society gone to shit in gotham, with jamaican gangs and strife all around them. batman goes to a voodoo haitain/jamaican w/e leader to find out about a string of murders in gotham. and once batman is gone, off goes the voodoo man's head. intro to BVP
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Fuck all the idiot douchebag haters. The only way to retain the artistic integrity of this film and respect Heath's performance at the same time is if they get an even better actor to play a similarly deranged Riddler as a Se7en style killer.
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He hasn't reinterpreted them. This aren't his versions. That is the Joker...That is James Gordon...that is Bruce Wayne. He has changed a few things like war paint but in essence those are the characters from the Killing Joke and Batman Year one. People are talking about making the Riddler like Saw or Seven but that is not the character from the comics (in any interpetation from the past 80 years). DC could make a fortune if they split the batman franchise into two series. They could make a Robin Begins world like the Harry Potter franchise and populate it with the Riddler, Mad Hatter, and villians like that. Nolans films need that hard core villians.
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I've seen Se7ven. I like it just fine, but I've seen it before and don't need to see it again. I've never seen a Saw film, and have no desire to, even if Batman makes a guest appearance. The main villians in the first two Nolan Batman films had a point to them, I don't see how Riddler's torture porn would inject a point into the story.
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My wife fell asleep. It was no where near the second coming everyone said. Heath was ok, bale could have done more and 2 face could have been left out. The movie was way to long. It added nothing to the development of the franchise. Ironman was so much better and as a sequel, Hellboy blew it away.....
This was as good as the first, better then the first series 2,3 and 4....but it was not great....it was over hyped ass....Heath ledger was a true loss and I hope this is not the movie he is remembered for. -
It would be a crime if Ledger won, because Nicholson didn't? Ummm why? I love the 89 Batman movie, don't get me wrong. Jack is funny and he is definitly fun but he's really just a goofed up Jack Nicholson. Not that it was bad, but I could look at him and say "hey thats jack nicholson". If I went to the theatre and saw TDK and I didn't know that was Heath Ledger, I probably would never have guessed.
I'm a huge Jack fan, but I think Ledgers character was much more complex. Nicholson was Nicholson dressed like the Joker. Ledger changed his mannerisms, his voice, and completely transformed himself.
As far as your wondering why people thought that Ledger was a good actor, I thought he was great in Monsters Ball, The Patriot, Four Feathers, and even as a minor role in Lords of Dogtown.
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Imagine someone with the demeanor of Alfred that is also a crime boss when not wielding a puppet. I'd love to see that grounded in Nolan's reality. Plus, I presume the character isn't strong enough to carry the entire film. Nolan has evidentially contested the whole "two villains = crap" theory anyhow...
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I yield.
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Dude, this film RAISED THE BAR..probably, PERMENANTLY!!!!! heath was SO over the top, SO insane, SO destructive...anything else is POINTLESS. OK, so the riddler kills people. WHO CARES? who's left to kill? gordon almost died via two face. so that;s out. Joker DID kill the commissioner, he DID kill that judge. HE DID kill rachel, He DID kill major mob figures. man, the jokeris impossible to beat. that's why he DIDNT DIE!!!! i dont think the nolan's planned om heath od'ing and dying. he was supposed to come back and play the joker -- again. they cant just not go along with the required plotline because one of the actors passed away. look, heath is immortal now, and no one will ever take that away from him. but we need another joker. come on guys, any other villain pales miserably in comparison.
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If you really think that Ledger was just ok in the part, then I have to question your opinion. Even people who didn't like the Dark Knight think that Ledger was great in it.
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Well, so much for your "rational discourse", Bill O'Reilly. You poor downtrodden soul. Good night!
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horrible character.
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Yes, "you" saw Nicholson when you saw his Joker. That doesn't mean no one saw Ledger during his Joker. Hence, one critique effectively cancels the other, yes?As I mentioned with the Hulk analogy, the cartoony can co-exist along with the angsty. But most importantly, we must remember how we felt in 1989 for my analogy to register. Perhaps you were old enough. I remember some major fan based apoplexy that resulted in Nicholson not being at least nominated. And again, this was after Superman's and Marvel's many failures at the box orifice.Incidentally, I've only seen the Patriot out of those you mentioned (which I did not). Perhaps I'd feel otherwise had I seen those performances.
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I think a good way to wrap up the franchise is to do something thematically opposite from TDK. Instead of someone falling from grace into evil, Nolan can make a movie about redemption. Maybe some villain that decides to change his ways because of Batman. Maybe even have Batman die in the end and have this reformed bad guy become the new Batman, or something, lol.
One way they can do it that I think would be cool is to do a Batman movie from the perspective of a criminal or mobster. Yeah I know it would be really different and would take huge balls to pull off, but it would be cool I think. -
I remember the talk about Jack.
I just personally think that its a totally different character. I don't think it would be this great CRIME if he got nominated. He was awesome in the part.
I remember how it felt, Batman was awesome in the theatre. I still like it, its really enjoyable.
But I think I have the right as a grown man to watch both of them and have my opinion. I personally feel like Ledger's potrayl wasn't only a better job of acting, it was much closer to the comic Joker.
He was the Joker that you could picture opening up a door and shooting girl throught the spine. He was the Joker that you could picture beating Robin to death.
And that means alot to me.
To each his or her own, but thats my humble opinion. -
catwoman may appear. also i think there's too many white villains being used, anyone know of any black batman villains? and are people against mr freeze showing up? he's not mentioned here that much, just wondering.
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whatever happened to that annoying reporter from schumacher's movies? why do i hate those SO much? I saw them when i was a youngin', and even then, I knew that they were nut-'n'-corn crunch diarrhea on film.
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it's a given, jackie. you're spot on. also, i dig that rachel won't be around to cause any sort of batman-catwoman-rachel love triangle bs. total schumacher garbage.
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guys, yes or no on superman in batman 3? i say, HELL YES. why not? it's the DC universe.
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What was so great about the performance...how did he excite you about the character....what did he do to make you forget the great performance by Jack or the stellar representation by Hamil in the cartoon....Yeah he was creepy, but c'mmon. Costner was much more intense in Mr. Brooks. It just does not stand on its own....Robert Downy....exemplified Tonry Stark.....Edward Norton was awesome in the hulk....ledger was ok in batman. This movie reminded me of the last diehard....it just tried to hard....
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gonna be thought of as the enemy at least in the beginning of the movie maybe some fake hero rises up, or someone rises up as a hero but it's all a scam? and batman gets to redeem himself.
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halle as catwoman? sharon stone as evil cosmetics exec? sounds like a winner.
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but i'd be more happy if they were intoduced in part 4, i think batman still needs room to be alone and grow.
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It's probably been said (x10?) somewhere else by somebody else first, but after having set up Batman, Joker and especially Harvey so well in The Dark Knight, it'd be nice IMO if the Nolan brothers looked back to Morrison & McKean's AA: ASHoSE for how to deal with where to go now.
I'm not suggesting they should literally interpret the precise events of that book, but maybe use it as a refernce point in the sense of continuing Bruce's staring into the abyss, Joker's continued influence on events (despite his being held in the deepest, darkest hole in Gotham), and a slight glimmer of redemption for poor Harvey. -
for some reason Dent's turn to TWo-Face was much more believable the second time. I caught a lot of little signs Two-Face was there all along. amazing. for some reason Batman's voice didnt bother me as much either. the whole movie just made more sense. it actuallly seemed to flow better. I'm glad they killed off Two-Face. making him the "next big villain" would have ruined the character.
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give me a dark knight-esque crossover or something. how do you top the joker -- supes. superman cant hack it on his own anymore, but a batman movie feat. superman would be like the true second coming. especially with nolan's style. faaawn.
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none of those performances you mentioned even come close, and some of those were good. Joker was played with so many levels. he just dominated every scene he was in. i had my doubts from the trailers (and also being a Ledger hater up to this point), but my god he lived up to the hype.
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like Nolan is trying to this series without anything supernatural. Sure, Dent's face is a little unbelievable but wouldn't Supes be a little outside this universe. Irealize he's DC but not sure it would work.
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Given his public grief at the passing of Ledger, I think he'd think it would be an honor to take over the part. Probably donate his salary to charity. Depp could do it. So could Brad Pitt ... but DDL would be the best and he ought to be approached.
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Harley Quinn will work as a double agent of sorts. She will become a love interest for Bruce outside as he employs her to keep an eye on the Joker inside of Arkham. All the long the Joker wins her over and eventually helps him get out of Arkham. Perhaps he has something on her forcing her to help him. Likely he has already thought through being kept inside of Arkham and has already forged alliances inside to ensure his escape/presence on the outside. This is also why I doubt Catwoman/Selina Kyle will be in the film. One female lead will be enough...
As for another main villain...the Penguin will be portrayed as a businessman bent on rivaling/infiltrating Wayne Enterprises. The Penguin will look to loot Wayne to help finance and further his mob connections. This kind of conflict will tear away at Bruce and create a whole new dynamic we haven't seen in any of these films. It also fits with the Nolan *realism* evident in this series.
Batman will continue to be a true outcast in Gotham. 2Face will return as a villain who will pair up w/ the Penguin to go after Batman & Wayne and keep him off balance by keeping the heat on him. Dent will be shown to be envious of Wayne for his history w/ Rachel and Wayne's wealth which he was clearly intimidated by in TDK.
Ultimately the Joker will either be broken out or escape from Arkham. Likely w/ help from all 3 villains. I don't think you will see much direct conflict b/w Penguin and Batman but once free the Joker will pull all of these moving parts together.
Hopefully Wayne Manor, a new Batmobile, a better suit etc will be included in the next film. I see this working as it 1) introduces new villains, 2) makes there roles believeable, 3) adds new types of drama to the series, & 4)keeps the villains from the last film active.
Yeah and I'm all for Johnny Depp in the role of the Joker. Ledger's incarnation of him fits Depp's mannerisms/style.
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if they used routh (yeah, just do it), and kept batman/gotham real. hell, watchmen is all real...save doc manhattan. superman is superman. i dont know that it'd kill things, here. that being said, no way nolan uses supes. sucks, right?
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the best performances in the movie were oldman, freeman and caine. The fact that ledger stole the scenes only speaks to how bale phoned it in....and Eric roberts....c'mmon....he overshadowed a second class actor. it just was not that good...it was ok....Bale was better in the 1st...It reminded me of the train wreck spidey 3 - although I will say it was better then that....
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I agree, I think Supes is a bit outside the 'couched-in-our-reality' feel that Nolan's gone for thus far.
I'm not vehemently opposed to the 2 crossing over somewhere in the speculative future, it is DC continuity (har har), but right now I'm not feelin' it at all.
Maybe if Singer's RETURNS hadn't been an epic snorefest? -
Gyllenhall...what an awful performance. No chemistry....Katie Holmes was SOOOOO MUUUCCCCHHHHH BEtter..
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the rest seem so silly now.
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Jul 20, 2008 9:04:45 PM CDT
I personally think no villian can ever stand up to the Joker, bu
by mefrog
...seriously, if the Riddler was the next villian, think of how fucking SICK the viral marketing campaign would be.
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I think Ironman did that.....
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I think Ironman did that.....
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C'mon - he stole his scene!
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...Has to be THE CAPED CRUSADER because this third movie has to be Batman on a crusade to take back his city and reclaim his reputation.
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Believe me, I know what you mean about Ledger's surprising take on the character. I was initially skeptical and very pleasantly surprised.You are as right to have your own opinion as a grown man as I am equally right to make my analogy between Hulk 03 and 08 as it is to Ledger 08 and Nicholson 89. We're on the same page. Can't you see that? This doesn't mean that each version cannot co-exist or has less weight than the other, given each's chronological circumstances. Unless, of course, we're only discussing our own personal opinions, which is a whole 'nother matter.I agree that Ledger nailed Moore's Joker as portrayed in The Killing Joke just as much as I praise Nicholson's take on a character that was equally stained by the camp ridden TV show, the superhero movies that followed it, and everything that came in comics before The Killing Joke. We agree.What the fuck is it with this AICN site and people that fail to admit that they agree? Mori was right years ago. AICN TB is nothing more than a burlap bag of rabid weasels. No wonder I retreated years ago.
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oldman, freeman, caine, Eckart and Ledger! just too many great ones. THey should all be thanking the scriptwriter. I agree poor Bale comes out of it the worse and Gylenhall sucks, but Ledger just wasn't "average". He was phenominal. that is the definitive Joker. Seeing it again today i'm even more sure it was an oscar worthy performance. Every once in awhile Joker would "break character" a little, just a little for a split second. like he was more that a anarchist. he was tortured.
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I am thankful that Nolan doesn't plot his movies to conform to viral marketing campaigns.
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Tortured is Denzel in Man on Fire....
Tortured is Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon
I repeat myself....what was so special about it...Depp was better in Pirates....
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...Is that they're completely missing the point. Nolan's Riddler would be different from all the other Riddlers they've seen/heard of and disliked. We have no idea what he could do with the character. Remember how lousy a choice Heath Ledger was for the Joker?
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I would really like to preview the whole thing. Anyone know if you can preview shit in the ITunes store?
I read some negative press on Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard's work on this, but I thought it was decent. Maybe not one for the record books, but well composed nonetheless. I loved the tonal noise that accompanied many Joker scenes, although that might have been overdone once if I recall, and the little interludes that puncuated some of the quieter scenes. -
unless, of course, he has another jooooooooooooooooooooooooooooygasm.
seriously, though, riddler ...has he ever been portrayed dark...im honestly askin. has he... -
and i was pretty bored. a few of the visuals and the fight at the end were pretty cool, but i just couldnt get into it. it was just a kiddie movie with bland characters, silly dialogue, and straightforward story. it was hard to appreciate it on its own level. i guess i expected something more adult.
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Hellboy 2 - better sequel....
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read my posts. i even gave examples of why. now your turn. what was so special about those performances? Why was Norton's better in the Hulk? why was Downey's better in Ironman? why was Denzel's better?
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maybe he takes over whats left of the mob in the next one. maybe not interesting enought to be the main threat, but certainly fits into Nolan's Batman world.
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they just raised the bar too damn high here. they went all out, balls out. etc, etc, etc. the joker is THE MAN. and, in this version, he brought it so damn hard, that topping him is next to impossible. what the hell could riddler do? screw with alfred and lucious? LAME! that's why im all about the joker coming back. can't top that guy. throw in catwoman and we've got a winner!
Oh, and i was thrilled when the cast ledger, because i knew he could act (brokeback). i just didnt get the body-type issue. everyone on here was always bitching about how the joker needing to be freakishly thin, spindly and angular -- and ledger, most certainly, was not. never doubted his acting chops for a second.
i was a fan of that sean penn as joke rumor, though...
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Norton - without him that movie was nothing...he brought intensity, intelligence and solid believability to the character....
Downey - Because he is Tony Stark - Playboy - check - Addict - Check - Every role he is sarcastic.....He was heroic without being a role model....he was stark....Not once in the movie did I say...hey that the guy from back to school...I was watching stark....
Denzel - Man on fire was not a great movie but his performance made you forget that he was denzel and it showed you depths of a broken man. His drinking...his attitude....just on point...
Ledger...yes creepy ....but not stellar... -
He were put forth the way he was portrayed in, say, The Long Halloween - a guy in tights who fancies himself a "villain", but is really just a lightweight (comparatively) trying to keep his ass away from the teeth of the real ones.
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Nolan should bring back Jim carrie and let him play it dark...because he really could....
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i bought Ledger and i think a lot of people did, too. I thought Norton was pretty dull but i agree with you on the other two.
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So at the end of TDK, you have Batman taking the blame for the deaths of cops, mob bosses, and Harvey Dent himself. All the police force is after him. This movie is all about redemption.
No one can catch Batman, so the city goes a little crazy wanting justice and hires some outside help (The new DA perhaps does the hiring)
So, they hire a female assassin/great cat burglar...ie Catwoman.
Meanwhile, with the Joker behind bars, Millionaire Oswald Cobblepot takes the reigns. He wears tuxedo's everywhere he goes, and is given the moniker Penguin. He looks like the short stocky guy with a tophat from the comics. Also uses umbrellas as weapons. With all the mob money burned from TDK, he is the only one who can afford the luxury of being the boss. Other people want the title, so the Penguin starts killing mob bosses, and blames it on Batman.
Reese, (aka Mr. Reese, aka Mysteries?) knowing who Bruce Wayne is from TDK, goes a little crazy and starts dropping hints about who Batman is. Gotham doesn't believe him, and this makes him angry. (Also getting shot at in TDK doesn't help.) He sends a package to Wayne Manor with a riddle. The riddle leads to the television station getting blown up. Bruce keeps receiving riddles, and must stop the Riddler, Catwoman, and the Penguin.
Catwoman realizes Batman is trying to help, they make out, and she wants to feel redeemed for all the bad people that may have been good that she has assassinated. She then helps Batman solve a riddle that unintentionally backfires and kills the Riddler.
The final showdown is at a gala at the circus, Penguin kills the flying Graysons whose son (a young young young boy. Like 10 years old) is the only survivor.
It is revealed to Gotham that all this is happening to Batman, and they feel guilty for wanting his head on a platter. Batman wins, Penguin gets tossed in Arkam, you hear a voice (and it better sound just like Ledger) say, he got you too huh?). Bruce takes the young Dick Grayson under his wing, he asks Dick, why do we fall? He replies, "So we can learn to pick ourselves back up". Gotham loves its hero once again. Bruce feels redeemed.
Roll Credits. End of series. No more movies ever after this. -
and throw explosive rubber duckies at the now-defunct tumbler?
honestly, guys, fuck the riddler. id rather see the evil cosmetics exec sharon stone played in catwoman -- now, THAT'S scary. -
Anthony Michael Hall was awesome!
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Gordon just seemed so desperate and exasperated. like he knew he was out of his league but still trying to get on top of it.
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But how often is Oldman bad....He was great again...
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They could have cut 2 face from the movie, not killed him, and I would not have cared...it added nothing...
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He was awesome in Lords of Dogtown...and in a cheesy fun way in the Patriot....
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When I saw Dogtown in theaters I thought it was Val Kilmer untill the credits played haha, That was the main reason I knew he could pull off the Joker was because of his great performance in Lords of DogTown. Oh and you forgot BrokeBack Mountain his best performance.
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did you even watch this movie? i'm begining to think not. he represented the very thing Joker and Batman were fighting over: Gatham's soul. Batman thought he had finally found a hero with a face, and Joker's turning him to madness was his victory over Batman's idealism! its the entire basis the movie was built around! he was central to everything, and Echart's performance sold it. first not liking Ledger, now thing he sucked? ok, you are clearly in the minority. sorry.
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hasn't made sense yet
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I would have enjoyed that representation if it was doen without being thrown in my face...it was awkward...the scene where eckhart, oldman and and batman were standing around feeling sorry for themselves was weird....it just broke from the confident Batman...whether the joker was effecting him or not...he would never have done that....it was bitch....and batman is not bitch....it was not showing humility....just bitch....the soul of gothom....it is funny that they needed to revisit that again considering the first movie covered it pretty well...."the city limped on after their deaths"....We tried to destroy the decadent city before....by the way a true psychotic joker would not have explained his reasons ever....he would create mayhem...because that is who he is...this made him out to be some kind of terorrist....he is destruction incarnate....he is the guy who would walk down a bridge and push a fisherman over the side without thought because he would think it was funny....it is a lack of respect for life....not a questioning of what humanity had developed in to....
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i definitely got the feeling Ledger's Joker would push a fisherman over a bridge for kicks. and i have no fucking clue what you are talking about Batman being a bitch. i think you are getting drunker. your sentence structure is breaking down. time to let up on the sauce.
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Bat Mite is in it...or if the shark repellent has a cameo, I mean why not!! throw us fans a bone!
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That scene with bats comish and dent was taken directly from the long Halloween
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Isn't Antony Micheal Hall suppose to turn into the Riddler? I mean they set it up nicely for him to know that Bruce is Batman. Also I don't know enough about the Batman Universe, but I still say Mel Gibson needs to be the main bad guy, thats if he's willing to act. Find a picture of him filming Apocolyto and he already is half way there. Also octagonproplex, I'll stop comparing Batman to Die Hard 3 (even though there the only real difference is that the Joker actually spoke to Batman face to face rather then on a cellular) if everyone else stops worrying about Heat. And also Heaths most memorable performance (before this) 10 things I hate about you, thats the reason every girl in America wants to see this. Go find any girl in the theater next time you go see Batman 2 and ask them whats there favorite Heath film and they'll say 10 Things, and they'll maybe know that he was in The Gay Cowboy movie but won't really know anything else he's done (maybe Knights Tale?).
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How in a summer where movies like Indy 4 and Hulk Re-boot exist can you say that Hellboy 2 was the biggest disappointment of the summer? First off, no one was even expecting a second one, secondly who was disappointed by it? Maybe they didn't like it, but who was like DAMN YOU GDT! You've raped my childhood, and all that fanboy hoopla. I just don't understand the point in a summer full of amazing movies all of the sudden none of them matter. I mean would you rather have a summer like last year with no good movies, just all let downs? Or the summer before that where I don't think any movies even came out?
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he was only trying to re-create the campy adam west series, no harm no foul.
ps - julie newmar was so fucking hot back then... -
OK, long story short...saw "300" at Mann's Chinese opening weekend. Then, saw it again a month later in Columbus, Ohio in the IMAX format. I was certain that a few scenes had been trimmed in the second viewing. Does anyone know if movies are regularly edited down for some reason on IMAX, or was this just a glitch in the presentation I saw? Reason I'm asking is I want to go see B:TDK tomorrow and I want to see it in IMAX, but I don't want to have any scenes cut when I see it for the first time. So, any help would be appreciated. Sorry for being an IMAX noob, lol...
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Kick ass, thanks
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The World's Greatest Superhero certainly can star in a successful film in this day and age. "Superman Returns" was plenty successful considering that it was a contemplative, soulful film that did not resort to excessive explosions and spectacle. And world-wide it made more than "Batman Begins." The Superman sequel, which will be loaded with action on a grand, epic scale, will rake in the cash and will be a major event.
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is a great actor
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great movie. heath ledger's performance was worth the hype.aaron eckhart's performance deserves far more attention.
christian bale, michael caine, gary oldman, AND maggie gyllenhaal were spot on. good night. -
I how to how that movie (paraphrasing, but still).
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Seriously man, you sound worse than the star wars nutters when Phantom Menace came out. You've got a pretty obsessive grudge against the movie, it's kind of weird
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Jul 20, 2008 10:56:31 PM CDT
octagonproplex - I'm partial to JZip
by fathermcgruderkicksassforthelord
There are others, but I like the interface.
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See, if the Joker intended to turn Dent into Two-Face, it'd be different. But it was an accident. Dent isn't central to the story. One of my personal issues with the film was that it spent too much time trying to give everyone face time. It tried to be an ensemble piece but it's dealing with characters that are too iconic and extreme to be part of an ensemble piece.
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he's b-list NOW, though. and i LOVE that bastard. always have. him and tom berenger and gary busey are the shit. cant stand julia, but eric is the bomb.
and Kal,
i would LOVE to see superman and batman in the same film, but i dont know that nolan would be down with that. -
Saw it again today, and I was moved a lot more by Maggie Gyllenhalls performance, and character. Call me a bitch, but I teared up a little when she died. The first time it was all about the Joker. The movie demands a second viewing.
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The one thing I'll say about Ledger's performance, is not once in that movie did I see one trace of anything resembling Heath Ledger. If somehow I didn't know going in that it was Ledger, I wouldn't have had a clue it was him by the time the curtains went up.
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hugh laurie, I think he could do it well.
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Superbly-acted crime drama take on Batman that suffers from trying too hard. Some people are confused about how you could like Spiderman II over Dark Knight. I'll give you a good reason: focus. Two villains is too many when they are Ledger's Joker and Eckhart's Two-Face. Add to that the subplots of the Rachel Dawes love triangle, Lucius Fox's relationship with Bruce, Gordon's ascension to Commissioner and family life, the Batimpostors, and you've got one really packed movie. Yes, I like that everyone gets some face time and I appreciate that it's trying to be an ensemble piece, showing that Batman isn't necessarily the most important person in Gotham. But when you give every thread equal weight, you risk bloating. And I feel personally like the movie was a little bloated. Whereas Spiderman II is predominantly Peter choosing his powers or Mary-Jane and dealing with Doc Ock. KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. My other big problem with the film was that the score drove me crazy. There were several scenes, particularly with the Joker, that were almost ruined by having unnecessary score in them. Ledger's Joker is so unsettling, it almost kills the tension to have that f'ing soundtrack noise in the background. Let the performance sell the tension. I think if Ledger's Joker LACKED a theme, if there was NEVER music under him, he would have been 10X more effective. I truly enjoyed Dark Knight and think it's definitely one of the best comic book films to date, but I also think it has problems that some people are willfully ignoring.
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I bought the soundtrack just so I could listen to Why so Serious and other Joker themes over and over again. And what the fuck was the theme for Jacks Joker Fucking Prince?!?!!?!?!?! WHY SO SERIOUS THEME SONG OF THE YEAR!
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Gary Oldman gave the best performance in the movie. Freeman was Freeman as Cain was Cain, Aaron Eckhart just needs to merge with Thomas Jane and become one great actor instead of two so/so actors, Bale was just as good as the first one, Ledger is dead so everyone's going to talk about his performance, Maggie was terrible and badly casted. Oldman is the only one who made me care about his character, even though he didn't have the biggest role, it felt like he was fighting just as hard as Batman to figure this out. I guess i can agree with you about how underrated Oldman is, Octa. How would you feel about Mel being the bad guy in the next one? I mean tell me that he doesn't already look like one. http://tinyurl.com/64e2b5
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Bring back Michelle Pfeiffer, called her "The Cougar".
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Immortal_Fish
I didn't say we were arguing dude. The only thing I argued about was the fact that it was a masterpiece or that it would be a crime if ledger got nominated. Thats all. We're cool.
DXMAN- You have the right to your own opinion. However from everything I've seen you write, I don't think many people would value it.
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I may have been my theater, but someone the cut to scenes where really crappily done? Like just a huge jump to the next scene, like some big cut like 5-10 seconds seemed missing or something.
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But mainly the Tumbler driving music from the first one. But it doesn't touch the Elfman Score from the first Batman movie. Its probably the best comic book superhero score since that one, but its not half as good.
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Jul 20, 2008 11:25:31 PM CDT
Still prefer Tim Burton's Batman films, especially the first.
by smokefilledtavern
I still love Tim Burton's BATMAN. The look and feel of Gotham and its art direction; Michael Keaton, Prince & Elfman; Nicholson and Palance...it was terrific.
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The Joker Theme Song. If you see the movie again, watch that performance and tell me that The Joker should have a theme song. The only sound that should accompany Heath Ledger's performance is the horrible sound of his tongue flicking in and out of his mouth.
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The guy that tried to snitch Batman out will end up being the riddler. I'm probably wrong... but whatever, I think he'd work well as the riddler.
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harvey two face has a theme song so why not joker? And why so serious? is the absolute essential sound of the Joker in Dark Knight.
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the comraderie between two-face and riddler is actually pretty funny! but thats all jim carrey's work, all tommy lee jones is laugh and grin the whole time when they cut to him at random moments for 2 seconds each time. i think jones had the least focused villain of the burton/shumacker movies. he seemed like a normal attorney but when he had some of that acid poured on him he became freakin ace ventura, complete with the clothes.
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I'd love to see Talia and RAS make a return..
If they are gonna do a police hunting batman story..bring in the league of shadows..with Talia daughter of the demon..Ras(shame on you those who dont know that reference)and yes Catwoman(a real good catwoman this time selina kyle)and It could be great..and it would be great bookend to batman begins..it would make sense to bring Talia in..and Ras just lies in wait...in an old age kinda way..
TWO FACE having to deal with both batman and Talia..HOLY SHIT..
But thats just me..what do ya'll think...peace.. -
Stayed away from reading all the spoilers and I don't feel up to reading every single tb in this thread. I'll just say my piece and go to bed.
What I dearly loved about this movie was that despite all of the acclaim Ledger is receiving for his performance (and deservedly so) and despite having two villains as well as a cacophany of mob bosses throughout, it is STILL a Batman movie. I didn't feel that Batman/Bruce Wayne were ever over shadowed or lost in background. And I loved Bale's performance in this just as much as I enjoyed Heath's. They were both awesome.
I'm going on record with those who think Dent is still alive, because I believe Nolan is going to pull off a five picture coup.
The next movie will include Catwoman (Morena Baccarin has my vote to play her) and possibly The Riddler (for whom I would like to see Joseph Gordon-Levitt get the role.) Also, this would introduce Dick Grayson (a YOUNG Dick Grayson, not some jerkoff in his early twenties) to balance out Batman's darker tendencies. The fourth movie will round out the Batman mythos with most likely The Penguin (Phillip Seymour Hoffman would be perfect) and since dual-villains is usually the norm, I would think having the Joker return would work best. I find it difficult to think of anyone who could fill Ledger's (clown)shoes after this film, but if put to it, I would have to go with James Marsden. The film culminating in Batman's retirement.
And finally, Nolan will take a couple of years off from directing Caped Crusader movies only to come back again for his piece de resistance... A cinematic portrayal of The Dark Knight Returns. (I would personally recast all of the rolls for this one rather than using aging makeup. Except maybe for Michael Cain, he's pretty freakin' old already.) -
That was a great post and I agree with you totally.
I personally like TDK more then spidey 2, but I could see either way.
I personally didn't see TDK as a two villian movie. TFace doesn't show up until the end and I thought they worked it in well. I saw that character as being the Joker's ultimate triumph in the movie. And while most people won't see it, I think it strengthened Batman's role in it. Harvey showing how easy it is to cross that line, and how he got pushed over it. But thats just me.. anyways good article. -
Just because they DO have theme songs, doesn't mean they SHOULD. It's not a big deal for Batman to have a theme because it doesn't detract from his character. It doesn't take anything away. I didn't notice it in Dent's scenes, so it probably wasn't a big deal there. But it was VERY noticeable during those scenes with The Joker. Ultimately the score is a tool to emphasize what's going on in the scene. With the Joker, I felt that the score DE-emphasized how scary he is. It undercut the tension. If you're alone in the woods in the middle of the night and you hear crickets chirping steadily, then stop, doesn't that make you feel tense? Isn't the absence of sound just as frightening, if not more so? Ledger is borderline terrifying in that role. You don't need to emphasize anything when he's on screen. AND like I said, it cuts the tension. It distracts from the effectiveness of the performance. The absolute essential sounds of the Joker were Heath's voice and the flicking of his tongue. That's it. That's all he needs to creep me the fuck out. No music necessary OR wanted.
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Jul 20, 2008 11:47:14 PM CDT
Anyone notice how JOker's theme is similar to There Will Be Bloo
by dogmatic
I mean that low distorted guitar sound reminds me a lot of choices made with There Will Be Blood soundtrack....and that whole crescendo thing that it builds to...the way it gets louder as the Joker's speech gets crazier...but it never reaches its final note...something always interupts like Batman or something. But in the final scene with Joker in his final speech it finally crescendos as Joker says madness is like gravity and all he had to do was give a little push. THat reminded me so much of the same crescendoed note from There Will Be Blood when Daniel Plainview finishes his grand performance with "I'm finished." Awesome. IT was a BRILLIANT musical way to approach Joker's madness.
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This guy may have finally demonstrated to studios and critics alike that if the material is treated with respect and intelligence, comic book movies can be serious works of film. I mean, this movie might even be better than Superman IV!!!...ahem...anyway...I DO have one tiny nitpick. In the scene with the Scarecrow, when the true Batman makes his entrance, he bends the barrel of an assault rifle with one hand. I know it is a comic book movie, and we must suspend disbelief, but it seemed unnecessarily unrealistic.
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I see what your saying but to me that industrial score made me feel more sick while watching Joker. Its not the first film to use industrial sound to make you feel disturbed but combined with that disturbing Joker it felt perfect to me.
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Wow there's a lot of shit on here, so hey, thought I'd throw my 2 cents into the ocean. I doubt anyone will be reading this far down now anyway... I think the Riddler and Bane would be a good match-up for Bats... one is all about the brains, the other is massively strong. It would be a nice juggling act for him.
My only problem is that the Riddler and the Joker might be a bit too same-y with the traps they set... or is that just me?
Loved TDK, thought it was fucking brilliant, and I feel a bit dirty already commenting on the next one. It's been out for 4 days, for fuck's sake. -
Yeah I have the Begins Soundtrack. I like it a lot and agree about Elfman not working in this comic book movie (I'm sorry they are such different takes on a character based on separate archs of his story there really is no point to compare them), I'm just saying overall Elfmans is better. Also back to Hellboy real quick, theres no way you could've been more disappointed in it then Wanted. I had huge hopes for Wanted, being a fan of the comic and hoping that Bekmambetov would prove that foreign directors can make good movies in hollywood. But instead we got a movie with little to no point to mentioning the comic and a movie smaller in scoop then the directors earlier hits.
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Especially the Joker stuff, its just a great mix of intense Industrial and elegant music scores.
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That man is scary as fuck, and does he have a theme? Are his acts of violence scored? When he strangles that deputy to death, the only sounds you hear are the sounds of struggle, the death rattle, and Chigurh's sigh of satisfaction. THAT is brutal.
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Actually more like 100 times scarier, I physically felt ill the first time I saw this film, I never felt anything unsettling while watching Anton in No Country
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You said his goal was to corrupt batman? Didn't see that. His goal was to bring down who everybody saw as Gotham's white knight, the symbol for hope. He tried to outsmart Batman, but like his shock in the ferry scene which he plays off with dark humor, when nothing blows up, he would probably also be shocked by Batman's decision. Batman made a sacrifice to preserve the hope of Gotham, and the work of Dent before he fell would carried on to fight the organized crime. Batman realizes the worst enemy is despair. Great ending, and well written and acted by Oldman and Bale. i think the ending is also what made the first film great, and a strong ending is a reflection of a strong overall story. No, it wasn't a perfect film but I'm on board that it deserves a best picture nod. I agree with posts above, the writing perhaps deserves more credit than the Joker's performance...it was great, but didn't stand out much from the other major characters in the film. Loved the score in the first film more than this one, but the first had a more epic feel. The score fit this type of film, but a lot of it I've heard before from Zimmer, esp. the action scenes, just sounded like The Rock.
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The entire bike semi truck scene had me at the edge of my seat. And when the Joker was outside of the Hospital blowing it up. He looked so damn funny in the nurses outfit
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How do you get that Joker turning Harvey into Two-Face was accidental? Maybe the PHYSICAL scarring, but he obviously intended for Bats to save Dent when Bats instead intended to save Rachel, hence the address switcharoo. How you could say that Harvey Two-Face was not integral to the plot is beyond me.
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Jul 21, 2008 12:22:43 AM CDT
I don't know why I put the spoiler shit
by fathermcgruderkicksassforthelord
If you've read this far down I think being worried due to spoilers is just about out the fucking window.
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Brendan Gleeson, Stellan Skarsgård or Ray Winstone? Haven't seen those names through around. And (2) of them fit into the Nolan World of British Actors make for better American icons. Also Crispin Glover as the Riddler, since we didn't get to see him as the Joker.
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The way I see the ferry scene is that it is pivotal to the whole theme of the movie: icons vs societies. People, including batman himself, invested too much faith in a single iconic person, Harvey. The Ferries are two entire mini-dramas which show groups of differing personalities and philosophies muddling through their conflicting views come to better decisions than any one hero could have alone. A committee will never be as exciting as a hero ... but sometimes they actually do work better.(YMMV, but that's how I saw the scenes)
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Jul 21, 2008 12:34:45 AM CDT
Yeah, for this Two-Face the scarring seems almost incidental
by billemic
I agree, the Joker did basically "create" Two-Face, and that was his aim...I felt like what triggered Dent's rage and vendetta was the death of Rachel, NOT his physical deformation. The scarring seemed almost incidental. Surgery/skin grafts and such could have undone some of the damage to his appearance, but as the film notes Dent REFUSES such surgery - he is just filled with inconsolable loss and anger. Even if he had walked away from the explosion unharmed, I feel he STILL would have gone after those crooked cops. The grotesqueness and physical pain of his facial wound probably just made him even more angry and violent, but the rage was still there. Check out that scene where he holds the Joker's stooge at gunpoint and goes ballistic on him.
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...where Dent's scarring is what causes him to go mentally askew. I think even the animated series did this - Harvey was scarred and felt he could no longer be with his family, etc. and then went nuts.
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exactly you can see Harvey with a dark side long before Two face ever shows up, he already had it in him.
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agreed, ledger did a very good job, but i think the merit is more for nolan who FINALLY wrote the joker as a psychopath, that being said, i dont think is gonna be that hard someone who can match ledger performance
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for a few reasons, but mostly the final 10 min. I personally felt they should not have the Joker live (even if they made the decision after Heath died). No one will fill his shoes and better to wrap him up and not leave us always wanting more that we'll never get. Also, wether Den is alive or not (I think he is alive) Nolan should have let us know. Also, on the boat with the non-criminals, it should have been mentioned that the boat with the criminals also had cops and crew with families. This would have made the moral choice much more intense and believable.
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Remember him? Probably not, but he was a vigilante who showed up in Batman: Year Two and Full Circle (with two separate men in the suit). And I really do think he fits in Nolan's vision, though perhaps done differently. A response to Batman, I think. A vigilante as effective as Bruce but with no qualms against killing even minor criminals like prostitutes. Something else that could haunt Bruce as he thinks he may have helped create this kind of killer with his "Dark Knight" image.
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(sorry for the double post, a little drunk) But my friend put it best... this might be the most unrealistic movie just because these two guys are after this one fugly chick. I agree and was glad when they killer her off. Didn't like Katie "Space-oddity" Holmes so much, but she was much cuter and less annoying than Maggie G, (who I like in other movie, just not this. Didn't fit the roll, sorry)
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maybe im crazy but i just saw tdk again and has anyone else noticed a illustrated penguin on the burning fire truck that blocks the caravan?
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Fuck Indy 4, and the rest of the let down trite. This movie trumps Iron Man, and that was a solid B+, great action hero flick. The rest f the summer bows to them.
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I don't want dime store social commentary fucking up an otherwise solid comic flick. And anyone who thought the big black prisoner would turn the key hasn't paid enough attention to Hollywood's PC/Diversity propaganda for the last 20 odd years.
I'm surprised the noble "Magical Negro" didn't heal one of the prison guards on his way to being all black and noble. Or that they didn't show his origins as being shafted by an oppressive white society, which was the reason he was in jail in the first place. Cmon Hollywood, don't halfass the PC shit; take it all the way. -
I said he wasn't central. Joker wasn't trying to turn Dent homicidal or make him into a villain as an end, but rather a means to an end. He just wanted to fuck with Batman. The movie wasn't about Dent's fall from grace. There was too much other shit going on for it to be about that. Hence one of my two major problems with the film: too much going on. But again, I have to state that I like it overall. I've noticed that problem on AICN more than anywhere else. It's like it's impossible to enjoy something while also acknowledging its weaknesses. I like the movie. I think it suffers from some bloating and I hate the score during the Joker scenes. But overall I like it. I think it's absurd to talk about Best Picture, especially as we have plenty of year left. But I like it. I think Spiderman II is better. But I like it.
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A very large portion of the Joker's dialogue was "dime store social commentary". I'd say a lot of the movie in general was social commentary. Sorry if you missed those parts under that pointy white hood.
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I love the Year Two storyline and a vigilante with no qualms about killing would be a great continuation of themes introduced here! He couldnt really be the main villain but would make a great sideplot and would be someone who could stand toe-to-toe physically and skillfully with Batman...plus they could make his identity a mystery and make someone close to Batman his identity like in the comic story.
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The killer from The Long Halloween....the movie could cover a year long period with various things happening but with everything tying into the Holiday murders that happen on each major holiday. WOUld allow for great detective stuff....and at the end Harvey Two-Face could be revealed as the killer! That would be a great story I think for a film. What you guys think?
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is quick and easy to miss because of the way it was shot, but you can kinda tell that he has something in his glove, some sort of warming device that allows him to bend it. There's definitely a sound that identifies some sort of contraption.
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But what a way to tie it all together at the end, Batman must become the Dark Knight. It is about Dent's fall in the sense it was necessary for Batman to make his sacrifice. The voice over of Oldman as he puts an axe to the bat signal, that's great stuff and why it is levels above the cliche' ending of Iron Man(and I'm not talking about Nick Fury showing up). And while great comeback to the KKK member, Spiderman II? Are you serious? All i remember about Spidey II is no desire to see it again, and can't remember much about it now. Interesting comparison in titles, though, notice this isn't Batman II, and Batman is not even in the title. It is Dark Knight. He was more Batman in the first film, using it to bring fear to his enemies. In this film, he became the Dark Knight. I seriously cannot wait to see what they do with the next film. Anyway, realistically, the snobs at Oscar nominating a Batman film best picture ,not likely anyway, but I don't think it's too early to say this will be one of the best pictures of the year.
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HMMMM
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but I've cast an official ballot for the last 8 years and I think this is a solid nom for best pic. The nom for Heath as supporting is in the bank... bet on it.
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I am truly grateful and happy, yes and feel more complete as a person thanks to this film. I can find sincere happiness and art in the Dark knight and I love Nolan, Ledger, Bale etc for giving it to me. I deserved a better class of criminal and the JOker did give it to me. Thank you.
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I agree with you, i feel a special feeling after seeing TDK. I also came home and put in the 1989 Tim Burton Batman and felt a similar fun chill down my spine, I love both these films!!!
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Ledger was great and groovy. Best sociopath since Hannibal Lector. I don't feel the need to trash Nicholson's Joker as so many seem to be doing. Different movie, different aesthetic. Nicholson was appropriate, unexpected and entirely cool.
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As much as TDK is probably the best interpretation of Batman put to the screen - I still love Burton's films, particularly Batman Returns, and I think this character is iconic and complex enough to warrant different but co-existing interpretations. It's not like Superman, who is slightly more rigid of a character and hard to find a unique 'take' on (Singer tried and failed). Batman is a strong enough character to survive a campy TV show, the gothic-but-silly Burton films, Schumacher's "nipple disco", and Nolan's gritty crime film take - and, you know what, I'm enough of a fan to find all of those takes valid. Um, well, except for raver-buttsex-Batman with Ah-nold.
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I don't wanna beat up the Burton films too much, I loved 'em, but I mean, the penguin army? My god... but nothing was worse than the big villain, Chris Walken. I just didn't believe anything he was saying, and usually Walken's a go-to guy. Catwoman (Pfeiffer made a helluvan impression) and Penguin were great, for that universe, but Walken's character hurt the film. (That's more the screenplay's fault than his.)
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I also thought the audiences I saw it with were weird. I got the same feeling as SoylentMean. Nobody cared about it. Many sheeple were there purely because that's what they were supposed to do this week. Everybody else is, right? Both showings I went to, I heard people say, "That was okay" on the way out. Okay? What frigging movies have you been watching? I'd like to know. Sadly, it's probably usually crap like 27 Dresses, or whatever.
The first audience I saw it with was practically silent, apparently comatose from the alcohol they served at the theater. The semi-truck flipping got minor applause. After the film ended (a brilliant final shot, by the way), it received the most timid golf clap I've ever heard. It's almost like people are too afraid to show that they're impressed, or too stupid to know they should be.
The second showing I went to yesterday with my buddy and his fiance. Apparently, she "doesn't like movies" because you have to sit through them and pay attention. I swear to God, that was her complaint and why she didn't want to go. My buddy had to practically beg her to go. She sighed, checked her phone, etc., throughout the film. When it was over, she claimed she hated it but admitted Ledger was pretty good.
The audience was livelier than the opening night crowd, laughing at just about anything. Even stuff that should be disturbing. One guy behind me emitted a zombie-like chuckle and proclaimed, "He's a bad dude," referring to the Joker. The one surprise was the audience breaking into applause at the return of Gordon, but after the final shot TDK received the same timid golf clap from a small segment of the audience. Wouldn't want to show you lvoed the movie.
End rant. I've posted a review. Feedback appreciated:
http://blogs.ign.com/JustSomeDude899
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but it looks like I don't know how to make new paragraphs.
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Are you on crack?!?!
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I'm sorry but a roided out luchadore does not belong in the franchise in its current state. It would be perfect for Burton to play with, but Bane wouldn't fit in with Nolan's vision.
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Hey man. You're talking a bit like America is the world, just like whenever people talk about Russell Crowe's best stuff it's because they're unaware of his Oz stuff too (he'll never stretch as much as he did from Romper Stomper to The Sum of Us). He's (Heath) great in Candy but you should check out Two Hands for a fun little gangster flick. A very young and cute Rose Byrne, too.
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Why did your friend have to beg his fiancee to go? Couldn't he have just gone without her?
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I don't hate the Riddler, in fact I just want the character to be true to the comics. The Black Mask would fit in perfectly for Batman 3. He is a dark version of Bruce wayne. He has corporate ties. He is a gangster. He has problems with people pretending to be people they are not. The concept of the mask being the real person is very Batman. The false face society gives a reason for everyone to be wearing masks. Now the Riddler could fit into this story. I liked the idea of the Riddler figuring everything out and lording it over everyone. That is very Riddler. I see Nolans trilogy as one big Batman year one story. I know the Dark Knight takes place a year after Batman Begins but it could just as easily be a few months later. Batman 3 could close the book on the first year and I think the fall of Gotham to the freaks would be a great end and Black Mask is the best villian to facilitate that. Also, Killer Croc is already in the Nolanverse...check out Gotham Knight.
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Maybe the hood slid down over my eyes a little bit, causing me to miss it, but I don't remember a scene before where he took pains to set up some elaborate scheme to prove a larger social point. It was just pure nihilistic destruction along the way to very concrete goals. You gotta admit, that Ferry scene was a lil hokey (even if you're quick on the "racist!" trigger: just wiki "magical negro" and you'll see what I'm talking about).
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$155.34M Weekend *New Record*
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$155.34M Weekend *New Record*
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The penguin especially is sort of the middle ground between the Sal Maroni types of gotham and The Joker. All the crazies know that Gotham is open season now. Batman is being actively hunted by the police so he'll be fighting a war on two fronts. I think Nolan is really interested in making these films crime epics like Heat, Departed etc...i think the Riddler and even Catwoman to a certain extent are a bit too cartoonish. The Penguin can be done more straightforward...the shady businessman/arms dealer. That's the Penguin i'd love to see, the arm's dealer. i'd also love to see Nolan and Bale crank out a new Batman movie every 4 years for the rest of their lives. The world Nolan has created is so immersive and awesome.
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Last time around, you threw out names like Crispin Glover and then bitched when Heath Ledger was announced. Clearly, you're not good at this whole casting thing.
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was more like a tornado siren, it preceded his onscreen appearance by several seconds. It was very much in line with his "force of nature" attitude.
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Jul 21, 2008 7:04:06 AM CDT
Gary FUCKING Oldman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by fart_master_flex
Does acting get any better than him? Here is a man that no one ever remembers? I was trying to think why that is. Then it hits me! He dissapears completely into each role. You never see the actor, just the character. Everyone talks different. Looks different. He is just the fucking greatest that was, is and ever will be. I think he is too good so he will never get nominated. His performances never feel like performances. They are too perfect. Like it isn't acting, it is just a real person on the camera and you take for granted that Mr Oldman is giving you the best acting school lessons that you will ever have.
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I realized Friday afternoon that I'm done trying to put actors into certain roles. I thought Robert Downey Jr. was an insane choice when first announced. Same for Ledger. Speculating on storylines is one thing, but I clearly suck at the whole casting call thing...
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there have been these "war on terror" debates going on this blog by neo-con sounding opinions. Yeah, I'm an invective spewing far left liberal that LOVES,ABSOLUTELY LOVES a debate with fox news neocons...
but here's my question: what does this shit really have 2 do with batman? really? -
when can i buy this on bluray?
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Jor-el that's the version of the Penguin I want to see. A mob guy that likes birds who sees the writing on the wall. A gang war between the old criminals and the Black Mask. He plays both sides and adopts the Penguin persona to survive the new order.
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I mean, Harvey's actions could have easily been explained by temporary insanity since he had half his face burned off and lost his would-be fiancee. That, or would it have taken that much more to pin the crimes on the Joker?
Great movie, but that ending of Batman becoming a fugitive to keep the image of Harvey's goodness intact for Gotham's sake makes absolutely no sense.
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I kept thinking, why not have someone else play him. Then I thought about who could be capable of doing it and really, I thought Johnny Depp. I can just easily picture him doing it. I thought it would also be really cool if the next movie had The Riddler in it, but have him be a serial killer. That would be pretty awesome. But also, that said, I hope Two-Face really isn't dead because Eckhart, man, he was amazing. I'd love to see him again at some point. And you know what, Scarecrow was a great villian too. I love em all, bring em all in!
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Jesus. I have to see this movie again. I had a terrble experience. I was too close to the screen for Nolan's fucking up-in-the-grill camera work. This guy is literally two steps from being a great action director. not to mention my theaters bass overwhelming the dialogue of the movie. I couldn't even tell what was happening in that building during the ferry sequence. Between Nolan's camera work and the seizure inducing cell phone sonic imaging shit, damned if I could tell what was happening.
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Is fucking brilliant -- all atonal strings and noise -- and is eerily, purposefully, awesomely similar to Daniel Plainview's theme music from There Will Be Blood (my favorite film and favorite soundtrack of 2007). "Why So Serious?" is a little more "industrial", but the atonal strings are virtually the same as Plainview's music. More support for DDL stepping into Ledger's shoes for part 3 if need be.
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Are you guys fucking kidding me? Never. EVER. Worst idea in fucking history. The joker is done in Nolanverse. Replacing him with another actor is an insult to the legacy this film has created.
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Jul 21, 2008 9:23:36 AM CDT
why the catwoman will most certainly be in the next one...
by thekylegassproject
two reasons:
1) Fox's little quip about how wayne's new suit will protect him against cats.
HUGE SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
B) Rachel Dawes dying means we will (probably) have to see a new love interest emerge. Nolan did so well with villain mythology in TDK that we might see a take on the true nature of the destructive relationship (masked & unmasked) between the bat the cat. see how bruce wayne fares against utter lust.
Burton's catwoman was just sexy and caught the batman's eye. but it would be much more fun to see an extremely destructive relationship between the two a la nolan's realism. whaddya guys think? -
The movie dramatically improved on the original. And it was a compelling film. But my minor complaints are probably listed on here by various other talkbackers. Batman's voice. The lack of a real Joker vs Batman showdown in the end. The way the movie seemed eager to set up part 3 instead of providing us with a good end to part 2. Don't get me wrong, this film was great, and maybe I am just greedy and wanted more. But I feel like Nolan STILL hasn't gotten the action right. As much as people trash Speed Racer, the out of nowhere fight sequence in the film was one of the best choreographed fights I have seen this year. I think Nolan needs to get that part together. Also think the next film needs those "Holy Shit" moments that make you smile like when Batman rolled the Batpod up the building, twisted, and landed on the street. Either way, the movie is still one of the best 2 movies I have seen this summer. (Rambo being the other one, fuck the haters). It was fun. Gripping. And holy fuck if Ledger wasn't evil when he made the hostage tape. This movie was worth the wait and lived up to the hype. Better than the true overrated movie of the Summer ("Iron Man").
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Thats all I'm saying. He is one of the few actors capable of it. Maybe Depp too.
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Joker knew he would take the fall for Harvey. Becoming Gothams most hunted person may seem noble until you realize that's what Joker wanted all along. He took down both of Gothams heroes in one foul swoop. Wow.
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I will be tough in a Nolanverse to top the joker in terms of realistic, scary villains. I think Nolan should look at some of Batman's graphic novels for ideas. If he adapted something like "Batman:the Cult", I think it would fit in well to the series. It could explore theme of religion as well have a city wide threat requiring the Batman to the rescue. It may not clear his name but it would remind the city that he is necessary.
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Should be played by our new Go To action girl Angelina Jolie. So what if it's an obvious choice. So what if she always plays a similar role. I don't care. She is the ONLY reason Wanted opened north of 30 Million opening weekend. And she has the chops to back up the appeal. She is the only chick out there that could believably go toe to toe with Bale and make any sort of romance with him believable. I will also join the chorus of JGL replacing Ledger if need be. It's not like we ever got a clear look at Ledger's face (sans makeup) to fuck with continuity by replacing him. Also the cinematographer REALLY hated Maggie Gyllenhaal. Because she looked terrible on screen. And the way they framed her face was awful. But I did love how she was all "It's OK! It's OK" when she was tied up. Like she was sure she would be saved and then BOOM. I have to say, Katie Holmes is terrible. But for continuity's sake, they should have gotten her to return. There were idiots in the theater that didn't even know who she was until she blew up. People are weird.
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I respectfully disagree about Burton's Catwoman merely being sexually alluring to Batman. Burton actually did a perfect job of setting up the relationship between the two characters as not being merely lustful, but actually the two having a kinship of spirit---both masked crusaders wishing to enact revenge on those that did them wrong, with Catwoman's idea of justice being slightly more perverse. It would be hard to improve upon Burton's Batman/Catwoman story in my opinion, but I think nolan could create something great as well.
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Fuck that. I agree with DGDB. I'm so sick of her ass. Sick of her acting. Sick of her personal life. Plus after squeezing out twins there's no way that ass is getting in a rubber suit.
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I loved Eckhart in the role. And I don't see how I missed that he was still alive. I thought his story was over.
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If Nolan would have heard me on talkbacks during casting for Batman Begins he wouldn't have had any issues because I always suggested Rachel McAdams or Anne Hathaway as the love interest. They both are good actresses. And both should be considered for Lois Lane Part Deux. Also after seeing Hathaway in Get Smart, she could be a wildcard for Catwoman. But I still say Angie. She is a draw when it comes to action. And I don't think she will have any issues getting into a suit. She's rich. Rich people rarely stay fat on purpose. :)
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You may be right. But for some reason I left feeling like there was closure to his story. But if he's still alive, what could they do? Also, what do you think about The Joker? Do you think they will even try the Trial of the Joker?
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Or whatever the fuck that guy's name was. You know, the one who kept posting to say "he laugh at us all fools" for thinking TDK would make more than $100 million TOTAL. Post after post, "he laugh at fools". Biggest opening weekend ever, cocksucker.
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Because they had a public memorial for him at the end of the movie. Usually you don't have public memorials for people who are alive.
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Now rabid Spidey fans are saying that TDK really didn't beat SM3 because of inflation. Meanwhile SM3 just came out last year. How much inflation could there really be? TDK owns. And should NOT be even mentioned in the same category as Spider Man 3 and Iron Man. It's in it's own league.
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The hospital blow up. That wasn't nihilism. The Joker was making a point. Would an ordinary righteous citizen kill one of their own to potentially save a hospital full of people? That was a social commentary. Joker's whole speech to Batman about using fear to cause a city to eat itself was social commentary. As for "magical negro", I was already familiar with the term. I've acted in a comedy sketch show that invoked the concept. My comment had less to do with that term than what I saw as knee-jerk bigotry about the choice of character to toss the detonator. I don't think it mattered that he was black. I think it mattered that Tiny Lister is f'n huge and horrible. Sure, they could've cast Randall "Tex" Cobb, but they didn't. Despite his brief turn as President of the Galaxy in 5th Element, most of us associate Tiny Lister with "huge badass bad guy". The fact that he's black was frankly incidental.
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Not that I blame you for being sick of her personal life, but that's not her fault. Don't be pissed at her just because the paps like to take her picture and endlessly talk about her. That's out of her control.
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I agree. And it's going to have much stronger legs than SM3, for lots of reasons, but mainly because people aren't walking out saying, 'That sucked.' Which is what they did after SM3.
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I'm not defending Spidey 3 because it was a massive turd, but you do read the news, right? Inflation is at a 26-year high. Due to the price of oil, everything has gone up in the past 12 months by a fairly wide margin.At 2007’s average price of $6.88, Spider-Man 3 sold 21.96 million tickets over opening weekend. Today’s average movie ticket is $7.08, which means TDK would have sold 21.94 million tickets.
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The third film won't need a draw. It will need a female lead who can act, not distract. I didn't think anybody could have acted worse than Holmes did in the first one, but Gyllanhal was atrocious in TDK. I couldn't believe how horrible she was.
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The Riddler could be a seriel killer, kind of Batman meets Zodiac.
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Jul 21, 2008 10:06:52 AM CDT
Ending reminds me of LA Confidential/Penguin/Joker showdown
by jor-el23
movie version of course. loved that though because Nolan is really doing up the crime epic and it just so happens that there are customed superheroes and crazy-ass villains. The Penguin, to me, seems like the perfect villain for Nolan's Gotham that is grounded in as much reality as you can possibly have for a movie about a guy in a bat costume fighting crime. It would definitely be a tough thing to do but i have faith in Nolan. Phillip Seymour Hoffman would work for that role, Timothy Spall is good too. Obviously you want someone who is pudgy, physically limited, not really waddling but just has that gait. Someone who knows his limitations and has adapted himself to work within them and succeed (like a penguin that can't fly but still survives)
The final showdown with Joker and Batman was perfect and epic, even if it wasn't a physical confrontation. And really what is the point of that? Batman has weapons, armor, he's pretty well protected physically. The Joker is all mind games so what's the point of some big choreographed fight? -
man, it was a really good movie. but, the role of the joker was the money role. the nolans wrote him wonderfully. he fucking made that movie. what a fantastic villain. likeable and frightening...reminds me of when i watched 'silence of the lambs' the first time. enjoyed the movie, but couldn't wait to get more of lechter.
and, heath ledger was great.
kinda pissed that he's dead but the joker isn't. -
...Now I don't like to dis Byrne too much because he's responsible for some great comics I read in my youth... and he's gotten to be too easy of a target. However, the guy's got an ego the size of the Greater Magellanic Cloud and the anger management problems of the combined membership of Al Qaeda. He probably hates TDK because he thinks his version of the Batman character is the best. (Now I have to go bring my dog inside because if Byrne reads this, he'll probably put a hit on the poor mutt to get back at me.)
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Jul 21, 2008 10:16:55 AM CDT
Just becasue the Joker lived doesn't mean the storyline isn't do
by hobocode
What is it with the American movie going public that thinks death is the only means of closure for a film. The Joker was captured and most likely put in Arkham. That's closure. There is absolutely no reason Joker should return in the third film unless there is indeed sufficient footage not used for this film.
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In the 3rd installment. Two Face is alive just due to the fact that Nolan understands the concept of Great Villans deserve Great Deaths. Falling the way he did was the MOST underwhelming death ever. Hence, Two Face is alive. There will be no Catwoman. The only proof anybody gives is that Lucius Fox makes the cat comment. However I completely believe that was for comedy relief ONLY. People acting like Sherlock Holmes saying that's a reference to Catwoman are kidding themselves. There will not be another actor playing the Joker. No actor in his right mind would take the role that Heath just immoralized. Not to this extent, but it would kind of be like recasting Michael Corleone. The character would just lose all feeling. Kind of like T3, but to a larger extent.
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if they re-cast the joker, it's going to be johnny depp.
angelina plays catwoman in everything she's in. she's an awful actress who has gotten tons of mileage off of her scrotum lips. i would honestly rather have halle berry come back for it, and i hate halle berry, too.
i feel like for the 3rd movie we were gearing up for an arkhum escape.
but, let's face it, a 3rd installment could only pale in comparison. -
Girl, Interrupted. For which she deservedly won an Oscar. Selective to make your point much?
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what isn't social commentary?
fucking "white chicks" was social commentary. -
Then my previous post is Dead Wrong. However, I'd be VERY curious to see Bale play a 50-yr old.
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New Joker: Ryan Gosling
Bane: Jason Statham
Catwoman: Emily Blunt
Riddler: Daniel Day-Lewis
Penguin: John Goodman -
I don't even know what that means.
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I have to disagree with you...there are at least 2 scenarios i can think of for why he could be alive. The memorial service is for closure, for the people of the city. they need to think he's dead, even if Gordon knows he isn't and he's secretly locked in Arkham. If he's alive you have to keep him quiet, you can't risk the city finding out what really happened to him and it's clear that he is not a person who can be reasoned with. Scenario two is that no one knows he's still alive, not Gordon, not Batman (yet). Also, I jsut want to see more Harvey Two Face. There is redemption somewhere in that character, they can get to it in part 3 if they want.
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... You won't be getting any of the newer Batvillains in the next film, no Black Mask, no Ventriloquist, no "Bane done right", for the simple reason that no one in the general population has heard of these characters. That said, Nolan did use Ra's Al Ghul in Begins, so I could be wrong. My money's on Catwoman done Batman: Year One style and damn... I wish there was some way to bring back Two-Face. Otherwise we have Penguin or Riddler as the only remaining well-known villains, both of whom, after Heath's knock-it-outta-the-effin'-park take on the Joker, seem somewhat lame in comparison.
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I do in fact watch the news all day since the TV here at work is stuck on MSNBC. But I live in New York and the ticket prices have always been the same amount for a while where I live. Same with Gas. It's been over 4 bucks since late last year.
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Seriously. I think he could pull it off.
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for Heath and I think the other guy on the crew that died during shooting.
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look like a scrotum to me.
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Is your real name Joel Schumacher? Because those are horrible casting choices for characters that will never be re/introduced into Nolan's world.
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She's got the look, plus she can act. Jolie is smoking hot, but I agree that she's so over-exposed at this point that it would rip me right out of the movie. Eva Green is still unfamiliar enough that she could work. Plus she is SMOKING hot.
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You MUST be kidding.
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No one wants to see some bitchy fashionista as Catwoman. We need someone (who aside from being sexy) can act and isn't afraid to get dirty. This person also has to be able to do a good job at stepping out of the huge shadow that Michelle Pheifer has cast. My money is still on the most obvious choice (Angelina). With Nolan at the helm she would do well. Aside from her, there aren't many actresses who can pull this off. And obvious choice #2 (Jessica Biel) has been looking rough lately and can't act unless Leatherface is chasing her. I thought Emily was good in The Devil Wears Prada, but people keep saying that she stole scenes from Hathaway. But she didn't. She just said mean things to be funny. And Becki Newton does the same thing (and is hotter) on "Ugly Betty". Catwoman done Nolan style would be good. And I trust whomever he casts. I was one of the few who didn't make any "Brokeback Joker" comments, because I figured that if he was cast, he'd be good. And turns out I was right. Joseph Gordon Levitt should replace him though.
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Wasn't he selling drugs to the Chechens with the dogs? I'm pretty sure that's what was going on. Also, I'm pretty sure that parking garage was featured in Begins when Batman was trying to get Rachel from Arkham to Wayne Manor
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I don't post much so I apologize for the ignorance. But, I was going all out with TDK until it assf*cked itself. Did anyone else have a problem with Batman giving up and turning himself in? What the f*ck!?! Bruce "I'm giving In" Wayne/Batman? Batman never gives up. Look at AKJ, Hush, ADITF, "A Lonely Place of Dying" series, TDK Returns. All those comics Batman persevered and kept fighting. At all costs. That Dent press conference and near giving up killed the movie for me. A very good movie that failed being great on that reason. Anyone else feelin that too? Nolan made the Joker completely awesome and made Batman out to be a bitch. F*ck that!
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That the Joker was a twisted motherfucker? I think the previous 2 hours showed that pretty effectively. That everyone, no matter who they are, have good and bad in them? The Harvey Dent storyline showed that in a much more compelling, poignant way. In fact, the whole ferry scene felt like it belonged in another, much cornier movie. To me, all it added was another 20 minutes the movie really didn't need. Maybe superhero movies should stop using the whole New Yorkers banding together angle. I still can't watch the original Spiderman without cringing at the scene where the diverse group of New Yorkers throw garbage can lids at the Green Goblin and a cabbie yells, "You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us". The ferry scene wasn't quite that hokey. But it was dangerously close.
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Just chiming in on this. Clearly Joker was the victor of TDK. He achieved all his goals, tore Gotham to shreads, turned the White Knight (Dent) into a hideous, murdering monster, and forced Batman into exhile. He PWNED Batman, Gordon, Dent, the Gotham Crime Families, and Gotham itself.
Sure, the people on the Ferry didn't kill each other, but even that seemed to reveal more their cowardice to act than heroic nobility ('cept for "Zeus" who I reckon was supposed to be a guy who realizes he doesn't really have anything to live for anyway, so may as well take the choice out of their hands and let the fickle whim of fate decide). The ultimate goal wasn't to kill all those people, it was to tear everything down and force everyone to face the truth of chaos, which he achieved. He won. Hands down, the Joker won. He doesn't care if he gets caught, beaten, or killed. He just wants to watch the world burn while laughing in our faces. -
Batman turned himself in? Really? All Batman did was make himself the scapegoat. He's too smart to ever be caught by the police, especially when he still has Commissioner Gordon on his side. Batman made the ultimate sacrifice for Gotham. He'll continue to do good, he'll continue to catch the bad guys but Gotham will never lose hope in Harvey. Of course if Harvey is still alive that's a different story. but I have a feeling that the people of Gotham might not know who Two Face is if he becomes a criminal.
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I think they COULD keep him alive, if necessary, but it would be difficult and require some logistical contortions. I think the intention of the film is clearly that he's dead. Nothing in the film points to him being alive, at all, and the conjecture seems to be wishing on the part of some fans.It would not make sense for him to be alive and be locked up somewhere, because the world thinks he's dead. So he'd have to be locked up with no due process whatsoever, taxpayer money would have to be spent keeping him that way, and doctors and guards would deal with him on a regular basis, saying "Hey, this guy's supposed to be dead." You'd need too many people going along with violating every one of his human rights in order for him to be alive.
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I think Batman turning himself in was basically a sign that things were way out of control at that point. Especially since this time the Joker was played as a terrorist without rhyme or reason. So he was conflicted. And I believed it. I didn't think that they "assfucked" themselves with that scenario. But maybe I'm the only one who wasn't at all bothered by that plot point.
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so you liked Dark Knight? I havent spoken to you since you saw it. Seen it twice myself and loved it. Best movie of the summer thus far, and one of the best of the year too.
As for Scarecrow, he was referring to his "compound" and how he was the only deal in town with so many dealers put down by batman. He was selling drugs to the Chechans who were complaining about no repeat business due to the destructive and psychotic nature of the drug. And then the portly batmen with the guns and hockey pants started showing up.
Also, there was a "for our friends, mentioning both Heath and the stuntman who died. I feel bad I do not recall his name.
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I think you're in the extreme minority on that one. You and about 2000 other people on the planet could make those references (that's NOT a put down). Most people bought into Batman "giving up". But again, they don't have the references you do.
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She would make a good Catwoman. I am serious about Jack Black as Penguin though. He's got the acting chops when he isn't acting like a braindead doofus. Think about it. The comedy of School of hih Fidelity. The woundedness of Margot at the Wedding. The sinister brooding of King Kong. Nobody thought Ledger would be any good either.
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there is a segment of Gotham Knight that shows the Scarecrow, nuttier than a fruitcake ruling a fear cult in somewhere in the sewers, when Batman comes upon him. He even has the hat to go with it.
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Trust me on this one, the character will be very much alive in the third installment. Just because he's on the ground and unconscious doesn't mean he's dead --if so then that means Batman killed him and it kind of wastes the whole set-up with the Joker finale. They purposefully had a funeral for Dent to make him the martyr of hope for the city, but Two-face went to Arkum, hopefully never to be seen again. Besides, they already played this Gag with Commissioner Gordon why wouldn't they do it with Dent?
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maybe went on a little too long but the point of it was crucial and it's already been brought up in this thread. but again, the point was that the people of gotham, including some of the criminals, are finally starting to see the dawn and hopefully turn their city around. and Joker knew that and his plan was to tear it down. so i guess in that respect i don't wnat Two Face coming back since it ruins all that. on the other hand, it seems like a waste of a villain who looks bad ass
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I know I'm going to get shit for saying this, but Nolan needs to take pointers from The Wachowski's when it comes to directing a fight. I still love TDK and will see it again this week after work (when the idiots are home and watching 2 and a Half Men). But the fight sequence in "Speed Racer" was probably the best choreographed fight I have seen all Summer. True talk. I know it's cool to hate on "Speed Racer", but that fight made me wish they would go and direct another action movie and shut the haters up. I hope Nolan gets better with the 3rd try.
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Hot, good actress, and she's kind of feline on her own.
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I don't think the police and the Arkham doctors would go along with faking a man's death in order to incarcerate him without trial or process, presumably for the rest of his life, just to give Gotham "hope." Dent is dead. The Joker is not. Deal.
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oops.
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Unless he is a minor Eric Robert's like character. By the way, I really loved William Fitchner's small cameo in the bank. When he was shooting with the shotgun, I had a huge smile on my face. I think part 3 would logically be The Riddler and Catwoman. But how do they portray The Riddler? Do they go the Die Hard 3 route and have him be another terrorist like the Joker?
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and it does sort of take away from the closure of the second movie to have Dent still alive. i guess it's just wishful thinking b/c i like the character and i like what Nolan/Eckhart did with him. but there are other rogues in the gallery that are of a different breed, still scary but not as crazy as Two Face or Joker, like Catwoman or Penguin. What about Maxwell Lord? The first thing I thought about when Batman was spying on the whole city was Checkmate. If WB did things the way marvel did that would have set up a JLA movie with the Checkmate story line
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Yeah good call. That cameo rocked. "Do you know who the fuck you are stealing from?!"
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Joker making the pencil/pen "disappear." The audience was like, "did thta just happen?" DAMN.
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for reasons probably already mentioned above(I havent read all of the posts:
1. This film documented the way in which the righteous and protectors of the city can be corrupted and fall, so a new approach and important step for Batman would be to introduce him to criminals who have redemptive qualities. The idea of redemptive criminals is illustrated with Tiny Lister's scene(which I liked, and didn't find hokey-he and his inmates seem to be returning to prayer after throwing the bomb, so I think his choice was more than just"I dont care about my life".So, there is a set-up to explore the idea that not all criminals are the high established "necessary evil" of the Moroni's and Falcone's or the complete nutter types like Joker.
2. I assume Caine's line about, might protect you against cat's was either a throw away line, a poke at the Batman Returns, both, or a potentially mild foreshadowing of Catwoman.
3.Now that Batman himself will be treated like a criminal, some other criminals in the city might be inclined to see him as more of an equal(those prone to vigilantism) and he might find himself having to rely on some of them.
Also, in the comics, I think it can be said that Batman's rogue gallery often comes off more like colorful characters than serious villains. Joker and a few others aside, people like Kyle, and the Croc and others often walk that line. One of the current storylines in Batman(or as of a year ago) involved Penguin and Riddler renouncing crime and selling out with t-shirts, merchandise and casinos and learning in the process that Batman would protect their pursuits from other criminals as long as they remained in the up and up. It helped that they were far more financially sucessful as sell-outs than they were as criminals. -
The handheld style makes more sense for Batman than it does for Jason Bourne. It captures what it must be like to fight a guy you can't even see. Plus, most of Batman's fights last about 4 seconds so it's not as nauseating as the 12 minute scenes of Jason Bourne fighting yet another GQ model.
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About Riddler and Catwoman in the third. I'm not looking to battle with people. I'm just saying. At the end of BB, we're shown the card of the Joker. Therefore it was logical he'd be in TDK. However, based on how TDK played out, there is nothing pointing to the Riddler or Catwoman. There is however a story arc for the return of Two-Face.
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I understand that I may have reacted harshly to that scene, but that scene resonates as what Batman is not to me, a scapegoat and a quitter. I do admit, that Sr. Nolan did give his character the depth and exposition to make that move appropriate in terms of the Nolanverse. Contextually, it was a pivotal scene and worked for the overall scope of the movie. But Batman comic wise, it hurt me a little, inside. Deep down below. Zoe, thanks for the understanding based on my ref points. I guess I should have went into the movie with more cinematic expectations than personal ones. Again, on a whole I think the film was good, in fact really good.
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However, I just read an interview with Nolan conducted right before the release but just posted today, about how he and his brother and Goyer saved nothing for part 3, not assuming anything about a potential sequel. All their ideas were throw into the Dark Knight script. That being said I'd still love to see Two Face and that could totally jsut be a ploy by Nolan for more $$$. I think this movie was bigger than any thought it would be when they went into pre-prod
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The Joker at one point says something like, "What? You think my plan is just for me to fight the Batman on top a tall building?"
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Joker kill Spawn about a third of the way through the movie?
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repititiously redundant.
And nice touch with the dog humping your leg at Thanksgiving dinner wordplay. Thats why this site is the best 'cut-and-paste-stuff-from-other-sites' on the internet. Because of top notch works like this. -
that implies that he gave up, took the cowl off and was handcuffed. he knows that he still hasn't won the war for Gotham. In order to win that war though he had no ohter choice. One thing I do need to be cleared up though...is Batman being blamed for Harvey's death? What other death's are they pinning on him?
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Yeah it's lame that he died from a fall. But people die from falling in their tubs. Shit happens. And just because his face was all Fire Marshall Bill on one side, doesn't mean he's suddenly impervious to a 30 foot fall and a 200 pound man in a batsuit falling with him. I agree with Jonah Echo in that now that The Batman is Wanted, he will encounter criminals with redemptive qualities. Mainly Catwoman. And remember, Batman films always feature a love interest for the dude. So you know he's getting one in part 3. I wonder if Rachel McAdams can pull off action? Or how about another unlikely choice? Like Sarah Michelle Gellar. She needs a hit that shows off her acting range (that was displayed well on Buffy) badly.
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Just getting flashes of Batman throwing dogs here and there, and then suddenly Batman caught in a net, and being bitten with a lead pipe by the Joker,and then bang they are on the edge of the building. Yes, there was some obscured movement in there, but the flashes of clarity were deliberate and I felt achieved that feeling of comic book panels with the added feeling of frenetic motion without the crappiness of actually putting the fight in panels in a live action movie.
And the chase between the truck, the armored cars and the Bat Pod. Brilliant. Watching Batman course correct himself on the side of the wall was super cool. -
I should write for this site. Sorry about that.
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He did what he always does. He put the city of Gotham first. And, at that moment, the city needed Harvey Dent to be a hero. Batman was never going to be that hero. So he made himself the villain. But on his own terms. Terms that didn't involve being taken into custody. Is it really that hard to understand?
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He's doing it with the trust that Dent can take over his fight to make the city safe. He's handing the reigns over to the 'white knight'. In any case, he can't be a hero and refuse to turn himself in when people are going to ostensibly die every day that he doesn't. He can't risk people's lives by trying to handle it on his own.
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I think there's a good possibility that Dent is alive and the third film would be about trying to redeem him. They held a public service not so they could incarcerate Dent secretly, but so they could try to rehabilitate him. Gordon made a big point of "I have to save Harvey." It could be thematically sound and explore the question of redemption. It's a strong theme in the comic and particularly in some of the later animated series episodes. Bringing Dent back from the abyss gives Bruce hope that he can bring himself back if need be. Of course, that's just a possibility.
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They spent all that time setting up that Batman blames himself for the escalation. Why wouldn't he turn himself in if that stops all the problems?
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miller’s DKR is deservedly held in the highest regards as the best bat story. i have read it countless times. it’s not without its flaws, but it is indeed a very accomplished work. miller’s year one & moore’s killing joke are important to tales in the bat universe, but they are each much too short a story, the scope too small. i was actually underwhelmed when i first read them. loeb’s(and no, gordon's boss in the movie is NOT named after the writer!) works i could give a rat’s ass about – they are lame whodunits and are really just an excuse to parade the rogue’s gallery.
but miller’s DKR… it stands tall among all the bat books. it is singularly the most defining bat story ever told. you can see that nolan’s TDK is highly influenced by that book, in sensibilities and attitude and even lifted some subplots directly, and it’s also great that everytime joker tells the origin of his scars, i could see moore’s joker seeping in as well. the movie is influenced by the best. but as of this minute, I can say without a hesitation that this movie, the dark knight, stands now as the best bat story ever told, in ANY MEDIUM.
it’s still not perfect, but it really is the grandest most satisfying bat story yet. -
I remember when those photos went public everyone shat their beds in anger. but then some more levelheaded people figured out that it was most likely some sort of escape pod (hence the word POD) and was only used b/c the Batmobile had be incapacitated. and they were right.
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You know who Sarah Michelle Gellar should play? Harley Quinn.
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Any actor would be nuts to even try. Nolan should have wrapped killed the Joker in post-production with a wide CG shot of him cutting himself loose rather than be captured... now were just cock teased forever wanting MORE OF LEDGER'S JOKER!!!!
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Riddler would have to be a serial killer who leaves riddles behind. Anything else would be cheesy and stupid. Forget Gorshin. Forget Carey. We need someone who gives off an aura of cunning and sociopathic ideals. Someone in the Nightstalker/Zodiac mindset. Someone who seems brilliant but woefully misguided. Instead of a zodiac symbol, he leaves behind a "?" on his victims, and on the notes. They need to go darker for the ridder. They need to conjure up shades of Se7ven and Jigsaw (from SAW). I would suggest someone who can play twisted; NOT someone who is known for his comedy. I would also suggest that the Riddler be portrayed by someone who can portray small and insignificant, but vengeful. For that reason, I'd put my faith behind Doug Hutchison (Percy Wetmore, Tooms, etc.) as a competent Riddler played in this vein.
Penguin should be just as he is in the comics: A fat, dapper, ugly crimelord. He should NOT be the abortion played by DeVito (this was no fault of DeVito's though. The writing on that movie sucked). Instead, he should seem powerful, highly intelligent, and be a fairly skilled boxer. His name is Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot, and nobody calls him "the Penguin" to his face, even though he sort of resembles one with his ever-present tuxedo, portly build, and aquiline nose. He's a sophisticated man who is used to getting what he wants. He's powerful. He has learned to box and has his own gadgets designed for self-defense (nothing crazy like giant penguins, but elegant, high-tech umbrella-weapons). He should be a fallen ornithologist, who chose crime because it was more profitable than studying birds. He runs a nightclub that Batman and the law can't touch, because everything is *apparently* above-the-board, and besides, Batman likes knowing where Gotham's criminals hang out. The important thing to remember with the Penguin is that he is completely, 100% sane. He sees himself as a gentleman and an aristocrat.
Catwoman is a whore-turned-burglar. She's no vigilante. She's no super-criminal. She merely wants what's hers. Honestly, I see NO REASON to ever use her in the Nolan series. She either comes off as campy and silly (chick dressed in a catsuit), or creepy and BDSM (chick dressed in a CATSUIT). Pfeiffer's sucked. Newmar rocked, but she was in a campy Batman series where that chacter fit in well. I'd dump Catwoman and I'd dump Robin, and I'd dump Bat-Girl. They have no place in this version. They'll just suck.
Clayface might work. Down-on-his-luck actor turned muck-headed villain? Sure, if they make him horrible and gruesome, driven by insane vanity.
Poison Ivy is quite possible. She should be an eco-terrorist, angry that Gotham is all stone and brick and that no plants thrives there. She sees herself as the avenger for plant-kind. She's like a plant-focused version of the most radical, crazy PETA member. She kills people for simple "crimes against plants" -- She uses plant-based poisons to kill (not crazy giant Venus flytraps, not killer vines) and she does not dress in that silly outfit; Instead, her clothing is all-natural with no dyes: It's like a svelte version of the hemp clothing worn by hippies. She doesn't vamp around, either. She's stunningly intelligent, but completely deluded. She's not very feminine, either (again, eco-terrorist, hippie, anti-social person) and comes off like a tomboy who prefers the company of plants and dirt to that of human beings.
Poison Ivy should be attractive, but oblivious to it. She doesn't care about being attractive to humans. She doesn't LIKE humans. They're plant-murderers, all of them! I would cast someone like Mary Stuart Masterson, Jodi Foster, or even Molly Ringwald in this role (Hey, they had Anthony Michael Hall in TDK, and Molly is an accomplished Broadway performer). Ivy should be old enough to have several advanced degrees, a long career in botany, and some time establishing herself as an eco-terrorist; Making her 20-something would be stupid, so no fucking Eva Green or Megan Fox. I want someone with gravitas; someone who can actually act, and seem believable.
Killer Croc is too weird. I wouldn't bother with him. How are you going to explain a crocodile-man in Nolan's world? It's not even remotely believable. The best you could do is make him a huge dude who altered himself COSMETICALLY to look like a crocodile (you know, like that oddball lizard-man, with the piercings, tattoos, and filed teeth). I think it might come off as lame, though.
BUT we've seen all these guys before--- Why not someone who hasn't been in a Batman movie?
Clock King would be a perfect fit for Nolan's world. A psycho who is obsessed with time? He would be great. Have someone like David Tennant play him.
And while we're talking about Brits, let us not forget the Mad Hatter. Again, this fellow would fit in Nolan's world. I'd recommend Rowan Atkinson (in a semi-serious role) as the Jervis Tetch, a man obsessed with Alice in Wonderland to the point of becoming murderous; Maybe even sexually assaulting women named Alice. Even in the comics he's schizophrenic, and suffers from psychotic manic depression. He's a homicidal maniac. -- Tetch plays a strong role in Knightfall, and he could be preserved for a film version of it. He could first be seen kidnapping people from around Gotham city, dressing them up as (warped, pained) characters from Alice in Wonderland, and filming them for broadcast on the news-- He wants people to see his Tea Party, and he uses his special chemically-enhanced tea (not hats or cards) to brainwash/control people. He sends good people out to do terrible things to each other, because everything to him is chaos and madness. (as an aside, does it piss anyone else off that Batman Forever's Riddler was actually more like the Mad Hatter?)
And his costume... The Mad Hatter should be wearing the costume from the original illustrations, but he should look desperate, disheveled, and cruel. He should bounce between emotions, becoming this unpredictable, self-loathing creature who just wants to see everyone suffer for how he feels.
Another villain that should be used is The Ventriloquist/Scarface. Anyone who has seen or read "Magic" knows this can be used to creepy effect, and I really can't think of anything more creepy and insane than a man with Dissociative Identity Disorder who believes his ventriloquist dummy is his "boss", even though subconsciously he's using the dummy to live out his violent fantasies of power & revenge and focus his homicidal tendencies. Imagine someone like Tim Robbins or Dustin Hoffman as Arnold Wesker, with a dummy that resembles a warped, evil Al Pacino in gangster clothing, with a functional tommygun. Hell-- Have Pacino do Scarface's voice!
There's a lot to work with here without having to resort to the weird, supernatural villains. No Mr. Freeze. No Killer Croc. I'd rather see characters that have some grounding in our own world. -
I completely agree with that. Hate Loeb's work-- amateurish at best. And I think TDK is better than Miller's.
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Here's a good comic on the Dark Knight: http://2dglasses.com/comics/2008/07/18/kill_the_batman/
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I don't think this one was as bad about the shaky-cam and obscurovision as Begins, but it's still somewhat aggravating. The thing is, some of us prefer to be able to watch the action in full. I think immediately of the hallway scene in Oldboy. It's a panning camera, but the pan is done in a full shot. No closeups. And that is a brilliantly brutal sequence. I like the Bourne flicks and I'm okay with shaky action and obscurovision when done in moderation, but I think it can be overdone.
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the end but the scene where Wayne is about to reveal himself. I think it's good to remember that while not an origin movie, it's still setting up the early days of Batman. He had never faced someone quite like the Joker. This was a possible answer, and through the course of the movie he learns the futility of such answers.
The actual ending was amazing on several levels. It gave the feel of Batman as a hero, as a protector, as more than a man who fights criminals but cares for a city. It made not-so-heavy handed Christ allusions as Batman, for the sake of the city takes another man's sins upon himself, while that man retains the virtue of his reputation.
It also showed that paralell between Dent and Bruce. Both "give up scenes" illustrated that either man was willing to bear the other's deeds for the city. And yet only one turned out to be incorruptible, and capable of it, despite both men losing the EXACT same thing(Alfred's withholding the letter makes the death as impacting to Bruce's future as it does to Harvey's).
Finally that ending also throws out the question most likely explored in the next chapter. Despite the nobility and sacrifice on the part of Bats, was lying the best thing? If Two Face lives, it will be much easier to explore that particular thread. -
I understand your point about the love interest, but one thing that always separated Batman from the other heroes is that he was constantly banging different broads. I've always like that. No Lois Lane or Mary Jane or whatever for Bats. He was more like James Bond.
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i would call this movie pitch perfect, if not for 2 things that bug me. the last reel. i could take harvey’s transformation to two-face. like someone already said it... his mind just snapped. when that happened it happens in a flinch, not through a long process. he can be harvey one second, then two-face the next. no problem with that. but what i could not take is why he would go after gordon and his family? and no, joker did not point him in that direction in the hospital. to me it feels like an excuse by the writers to have something happening around gordon, since the bat and joker are busy elsewhere with the swats. that is cheating, and it’s one of the two(i’ll get to the second one in a bit) things that rang ‘false’ to me. sure, i have read justifications by most of you, but then you can justify anything, even a plothole the size of a truck, but that doesn’t mean it rings true.
if anything, harvey would blame the bat for saving him instead, thus letting rachel dies. that would make it more poignant – blaming the one who saved his life when he was ready to die for his love. and then him, the bat, and joker could have a three way squareoff on that highrise tower. that would also save you all from speculating about dent’s fate – when he falls from that high, none of you would think he’ll return for movie 3. i mean, for pete’s sake, the guy’s dead, okay! and no, boba fett still lies dead in sarlaac’s belly, no matter what the comics/books claim otherwise.
my second beef is… why the change of suit for two-face? when did he pick it up? from the hospital’s laundry room? why would he even bother? his love is gone. he has no eyelid and only half a face, he’s got revenge in his mind… WHY WOULD HE BOTHER??? oh yeah, because it’s a comic book movie, and in the comic two-face wears two-sided suit.
yeah, thanks for reminding me it’s only a comic book movie, nolan. so what was all that 2 hours of realistic badassness preceding it about then? if the fans can take scarecrow wearing regular normal suit instead of a fullblown scarecrow regalia, then they can take two-face not wearing his comic book’s silly ass costume! it’s just out of character for harvey, and it really takes me out of the moment when i saw that. besides, i could take his face burnt right down the middle, but his suit as well?
though to be fair, i think nolan feels it’s silly as well, hence the suit in covered darkness all the time.
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I always thought the love interest was the least interesting thing about the Batman movies. It's kind of fun in Selina Kyle, but that's because she functions as a villain as well.
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was the useless cameo by cillian murphy as scarecrow. Other than that one of the greatest movies to ever be made. Someone earlier said Jack Black as Penguin, that be cool.
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Probably won't be in the third installment. We've already seen "Returns" and there was that Halle Berry "movie" that no one wants to think about; in other words, why do we need another iteration of that character? Unless Nolan's got something up his sleeve like he did with the Joker. If they need a female presence, I'm betting on Talia; bring the trilogy full circle, bring back the League of Shadows, have them coerce Dent (smuggled into Arkham by Gordon under an assumed name) into helping them; his methods are already LoS-esque. And maybe throw in the Penguin as a mob boss/minor-ish character. It could work...
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I mean, I know we're getting a lot of her in comic flicks, but that's because we all dig her, right?
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Keep believing that all you want to but I'll see you for Batman 3 featuring Two Face as the main villain. At the very least you'll find that they faked his death for the funeral. I'll put money on it.
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even this one had the big broad sense of escapism. There are still some fantastical(not in the magic sense) elements, and all the talk of turning riddler into a serial killer or catwoman into anything other than a theif isnt necessary. There is no actual need for the next one to be as dark as this one, if it isn't necessary. And lighter Batman, while still dealing with the big themes has the opportunity to be just as good as this jaundiced, leering vault into insanity and corruption.
I dont want the Batman's to keep getting darker in hopes of topping this. Let's see a more personal Batman film where Bruce is given the chance to personally react to the events in this film that were just grazing the surface of his emotional places. The next being a lighter film where the various big name players interact as characters in a large over-arching plot(look at Long Halloween) might be the way to go. -
and back again. While TDK was good, it just didn't play out like a comic book film. Where was the fun? Batman is supposed to be a COMIC BOOK adaptation for fuck's sake, not Heat or the Godfather. Fuck that. Give me Burton's masterpiece any day of the week.
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is hot for sure. but shouldn't catwoman be younger mid to late 20's. I think shes around 36-37.
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I'll take that bet. My point is this: there is NOTHING, AT ALL in the movie to indicate Dent is still alive. NOTHING.Every bit of conjecture otherwise is simply fans projecting their wishes onto the film. There's NOTHING in the film to suggest Dent is still alive. Nolan kept the Joker alive. He's done with Dent.
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Ras and Dent and others converge eventually. Also the Penguin of the comics is alterable enough that he could easily replace Moroni just as Moroni replaced Falcone. Sounds like a nursery rhyme. I think it's all agreed though that Man Bat is just too much.
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Hahahahaha-- oh, shit. That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
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I enjoy your theories and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Good ideas for Riddler and Poison Ivy. It's all about reality, that's the only way to think Nolan's movies. Improbable but possible within reality. No mutants, no women brought back to life by cats, no DNA rearrangement, just crazies and crime lords. If anyone has seen the new History Channel special about the psychology of Batman they reference serial killers like Zodiac and Bundy when talking about the narcissistic Riddler. It would be perfect to have Batman fighting two criminal fronts, the Penguin crime lord, arms dealer, maybe some gambling and prostitution based out of his night club and then you have a serial killer who's only goal is mayhem and fear.
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right?
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that Dent is dead, but it is that death(we watch Batman survive the same fall)that is easily, and not too hokily, reversible if the writers decide Two Face is important. In fact, Nolan might do that just to pull the rug out, partway through the third. Afterall, he sucessfully had me convinced that a major player had died before even coming into the title we associate him with, only to bring him back three scenes later.
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A chick in the unemployment line, because she sucks and looks awful in everything she does. Seriously, if she's in a Batman movie, I'll not even see it. She's awful. I'd rather have Katie Holmes Cruise-Xenu back.
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Jul 21, 2008 11:29:24 AM CDT
One more time: anybody notice the jab at the '89 Batman?
by the octagoner
I won't mention it again, I'm just curious if anybody else noticed. At some point, the Joker says something like, "What? You think my big plan is to fight Batman alone on top a tall building?" I'd forgotten about it, but my buddy said he took that to be Nolan pissing in Burton's face. Looking back, I think so too.
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for Catwoman. shes effin smokin hot! but then again she can't really act
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Nolan doesn't seem to be into killing villians, and I highly doubt he would give two face a death like that. Two face is locked up somewhere, hidden by the police. Think about it people! Gordon faked his own death earlier in the movie!
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There is also no reason to assume that Harvey Dent is dead just because he took a fall that Batman himself walked away from. Also Commissioner Gordon successfully faked his own death so much so that his own buddies (some corrupt) didn't know he wasn't dead. But whatever, I can be a uber-geek all day long and give you a list of why I think Dent is still alive - but Hey, I gotta work here. :) I'll just come back in a few years to say I told you so when Batman 3 hits theaters --and collect whatever meager sum we decided upon.
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I seen a little cap in Aaron Ekhardt as i was watching the movie. Anyone else think he'd be a decent Avenger?
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It was clever. I liked it.
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only b/c i'd seen the part of the trailer where Joker is in custody and Gordon is talking about what was in his pockets and then the subsequent scene where Gordon attempts to interrogate Joker and then gets some coffee while Batman has his way.
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Richard Roeper is leaving At The Movies for another TV gig.
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noooo... that is blasphemy!
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I think the 3rd films story points will be Gotham City vs. Batman.. Nolan tying up two faces story line, but I highly doubt he'll be the main villian. Bruce Wayne's relationship with Selina Kyle. The love outside the mask and the hate when the masks are on type of relationship. The film would possibly with Talia Al Ghul coming to Gotham for Batman's help. I think we all have an idea as to where that would go. But bringing back the Ras Al Ghul element would be a great way to end the 3rd film, leading into a possible fourth.
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Jul 21, 2008 11:36:04 AM CDT
"Replacing him with another actor is an insult to the legacy thi
by luscious.868
Not replacing him is an insult to the character. There is no way the Joker as Nolan has constructed him would just go away. He already broke out of jail for all of us to see on-screen. They signed Ledger for two pics because the intention was always to bring him back. I say recast him. If they can recast a character like Rachel Dawes who wasn't onscreen covered in makeup for just about the entire time then they can recast the Joker. Ledger's work was top notch, but to suggest that nobody else could come close to pulling it off is pure hyperbole.
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Read earlier posts. I'm not assuming anything. I'm taking the movie at face value.
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I said the same thing when the first promotional pics were coming out. Eckhardt for Captain America.
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The 'sacrifice' Batman makes - only works if A) Dent is still alive and B) If he will be part of the third movie. Consider, if Dent were dead, then there is no need to cover-up. They could simply say, he was killed by the Joker and that is that. Dent being alive, and in Arkham, presents other problems, not the least of which is a massive cover-up. Consider: If Dent is alive, and the people of Gotham know he is, then locking him up in Arkham can only mean he has gone bonkers. That puts a big hit on the rep right there. If the people do NOT know he is locked up, then surely the cover-up takes on mammoth proportions because the Commsioner does not control Arkham, nor the people who work there. And someone is bound to see Dent and report it. That will get out, unless a tightly held conspiracy is in place. At first I thought the 'sacrifice' was a mistake. Yes, it showed Batman is noble, but it also shows that he is very cynical. But as I thought on it some more, I relaized that it is true to the character, in that he believes that one man can make a difference. So he would believe that Dent's reputation might make a difference as well. But I think he is wrong and gives the peoole too little credit. And I believe the third movie may explore that. I think there is little reason to suspect that the third movie will not be dark as well.
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Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but with Gordon faking his own death, Maroni commenting on how a fall of about the same distance wouldn't kill anyone. Batman and Dawes falling off a penthouse and landing on car and walking away. The car flip. It just seems like they've left it a little ambiguous. Until Nolan comes out and says he's dead, I'm skeptical.
If he isn't dead the infection he'll get would probably kill him though. -
He's immortal, I guess that's the only possibly fantastical element of the Nolan films. but he hasn't come back so we don't know if the Lazarus Pit exists. It just seems like Ras has a bone to pick with Gotham and has spent decades trying to wipe it off the map. He, like the Joker, wouldn't just go away.
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Rich Hollywood actors age at 1/3 the rate of normal people. Downey's moving into his mid-forties and Marvel didn't have a problem starting a franchise with him.
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Shaky cam didn't bother me at all as I gave a glowing review for The Bourne Ultimatum on the TV news last year. That was shaky cam done right. Here I just felt like the fight scenes were framed a little too close. The car chase and truck scene were good. But the fighting IMO needs improvement.
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I don't know if you're all that into comics, but the art of the comic book hasn't been synonymous with frivolous camp (ala the campy goth of Burton's Batman) for well going on 25 years. Comics grew up. Sorry. Actually, let me rephrase that. Comics expanded. You still have your campy adolescent power fantasies, but you also have your gritty noir realism, hard sci-fi, sincere auto-bio, subversive satire, surrealism, indie outsider art, and so on and so forth. You have your Ghost World's, your Maus, and your Watchmen. American comics are still a good 10 years behind Japanese comics in terms of the sheer scope of genres (everything from giant robot smash to historical drama to sports comics to cooking comics; the only place it he world where comics are truly a mass medium that everyone reads and enjoys), but we're rapidly catching up.
Long rant short, the term "comic book" is no longer synonymous with light hearted campy disposable entertainment for children. Hasn't been for well on 25 years. Time to catch up. -
How could Batman assume the blame for Dent's murders anyway? I mean, if there were any eyewitnesses, then they could identify very clearly that it was not Batman - Dent don't wear a mask and cape. If no eyewitnesses, then why bother assuming the murders at all? Also, at the end of the movie, perhaps it is my 'mis-remembering', but didn't the police start pursuing Batman before Gordon had even left the scene of Two-faces supposed death?
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Eckhart's too smarmy? You realize he's an actor, right? He plays what the role calls for. Didn't seem smarmy as Harvey Dent.
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Yeah, I caught that too. Burton, consider yourself PWNED. Haha!
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is to have joker back for a third. nolan planned joker to be in 2 movies. heath's great and all that sure, but nolan has to do what's right with the story. the joker, sadly, just HAS TO be recast.
i mean, what do you guys expect him to do in the third movie? just sit around doing nothing in his cell? really? the joker in burton's movie maybe, but not this new joker.
if nolan would even bother to tie loose end by squeezing scarecrow in in this movie, he would definitely not just take the joker's out of the loop in the next one. he will make schemes from the inside, poisoning everyone around him with his words. one or several of them most likely will be seduced to join his side(harley? scarecrow?).
if TDK is akin to mann's heat, then the next installment will be nolan's silence of the lambs/mind hunter. -
I know it takes awhile to rebuild a mansion "brick by brick" but it better be in there.
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Is the theme music. Everything else is pretty awful. Although Catwoman is smoking hot in Returns with her tight leather fetish wear.
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was a combination of Gordon's awesome speech to his son, mixing in the future scenes of the memorial, the destruction of the bat signal and the hunt of the batman. i don't think there was a chronological order
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and I don't think it tarnishes Heath's memory. It could, in a way, honor the memory of his performance. Another really good actor could play another really good Joker.If the story is meant to go somewhere, I don't think it should avoid going there because an actor accidentally overdosed.
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He could be a good Captain America. And his age isn't a problem since Hugh Jackman is 40 and is Wolverine. And fuck it, Stallone came back and kicked ass in Rambo 4. It's not like Eckhart cant train hard for 4 months and fit into the suit. Hell, Tobey Maguire was overweight for Spiderman 3 and no one said anything.
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When bats say he's taking the blame, didn't dent only kill 3 people?
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was pretty darn good. On par with Superman's theme to be honest.
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Several reasons:
* She's a dumb character, no matter what story they use. She's pure cheeseball writing, designed to invite the inevitable "pussy" jokes.
* Her costume ALWAYS sucks, unless you're into BDSM or are a furry.
* Everyone who has ever played her has hammed it up with the "cat-like" behavior. I don't want to see another grown woman vamping and saying "mrowww" while trying to be taken seriously as an actress.
* She's an invitation for bad puns. EVERY iteration of Catwoman has loads of bad "pussy", "purr", "fur", "tail", "claws", "cat-astophic" jokes and puns. I don't want to hear them again. No.
* Who is she, really? Some prostitute in a cat costume who steals shit. Why would she be THIS Batman's problem? She's not a threat to Gotham. She's not a challenge for Batman. She's not anything but an opportunity to stick a hot chick in a tight costume. FUCK that. If I want T&A I'll watch Showgirls on DVD. Leave Batman alone.
* Batman doesn't need a love interest. Gotham is his lover. Gotham is his woman. He does not have time, nor the emotional capacity to have a girlfriend. Don't force me to watch him act like an idiot with a woman. Don't force me to watch him consider giving it all up for a girl. Don't force me to watch him have kissing/love scenes. THAT is not Batman.
* I would only accept Catwoman if they make her a true villain. Make her a man-hater, who abducts and sexually assaults men before cutting off their junk and mailing it to their wives or mothers. Make her very plain-looking, resentful of her own sexuality, and play down the whole "cat" angle as an obsession with cats because she can't trust people; ESPECIALLY men. Make her the Crazy Cat-Lady gone homicidal, and it might work. She doesn't ACT like a cat. She just emulates their predatory mental state and prefers their company. Don't give her claws, or a catsuit. No cutesy little cat-ears. No bondage gear. No high heels. No fucking whip. No catseye mask. Instead, put her in a dark grey business suit ("all cats are grey in the dark"), with a small cat-brooch on the lapel. Give her short-cropped hair. She uses a bowie knife with great skill, slashing (never stabbing) to leave long cuts upon the skin of her victims. She's also smart enough to figure out who Batman is, and try to get to him as Bruce (ONLY to KILL him, not fuck him or fall in love with him).
THAT Catwoman might be OK. Anything else would suck. -
What the devil are you idiots talking about?
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No reason to get chippy about it. Obviously tastes have changed. For people who like a more campy fun version of Batman it's a great flick. Both are an achievement in their own ways in my opinion.
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an older soldier who wasn't that decorated, then the syrum makes him a super soldier? I was never a big cap guy, might be remembering wrong.
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It was still a shitty movie. But back then it was the only game in town. People hadn't seen a decent, big-budgeted super-hero movie since Superman II. And people had never seen a serious Batman movie-- it was largely the novelty of simply having a "serious" Batman movie to go see, with a big actor like Jack Nicholson, that made it a hit. Taken on its own terms, it's a really, really bad movie.Great, great score, though.
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Moroni and his driver, the corrupt male cop, Dent himself. That's four. Am I missing someone?
Unless the movie or Gordon flubbed and counted Ramirez, who is left to seek her redemption. Wasn't she a good character in the comics? I seemed to remember that, which is why I never considered her betrayal. Am I off? -
If Nolan had future plans for the Joker, why let an actor fucking overdosing derail those plans? Ledger's not Christ or something; he's just a really good actor. There are other really good actors.
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Does not hold up very well, watched it last week for the first time in a few years and noticed a bunch of cheese I've never noticed before.
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You should seriously be working on the production of the next film. Eve nthough you may be an emotionally stunted misogynist, your ideas are interesting. Although I think the whip can stay. Not an Indy whip but a cat-o-nine-tails style whip that's eaisly concealed and can be used to torture people.
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Sunday was better than anticipated apparently.
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Ramirez too. Why would he of left her alive.
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Has anyone ever seen them in the same room at the same time? Just curious.
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...Joker falling just like he did BUT Batman saves him. It was almost like "you see WE don't kill our great characters".
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I still don't get why he was cast in GI Joe as Cobra Commander. I have nothing against him, I liked him in Brick and everything else I've seen him in. That being said he still basically looks like a scrawny high schooler. and you're going to cast him as Cobra Commander?
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And thank God for it or Adam West would still be playing Batman. If you can recast Dawes you can recast the Joker.
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Joker killed spawn.
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Saw it Friday at a sold-out show in a Cleveland suburb. Really enjoyed it. Great movie.
But I also left with the feeling that it treaded dangerously in Spidey 3 territory, cramming tons of important characters into one movie--Scarecrow, Joker, Two Face, the mob--and a couple of false climaxes. Fortunately, unlike Spidey 3, this film does not short change anybody. The ensemble was sublime. This was the smart, grim, grown-up Batman I've wanted to see for twenty years. A thinking man's Batman, without sacrificing the "gravy" of action. Burton captured some of the grimness, but shot himself in the foot with his wackiness (red triangle gang, anyone). Kudos to Nolan and all involved. This was fun. Exhilirating watching Bats pummel dudes in a parking garage and punch his way past thugs to Moroney in the night club. -
I think the ferry scene was to give hope, the ray of light, proof that we may not destroy ourselves afterall. More or less, that humanity isn't as bad as the Joker thinks.
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I'm just saying-- a good artist can always surprise you with the depth and power of their work. They get somebody who's just as talented as Ledger and can make the role his own? I'm all for it.I can't think who exactly that might be, but I really believe it could work if the actor is good enough. Maybe Adrien Brody?I just don't think Heath overdosing should scrub the story plans. Story first. Actors second.
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...is retarded. Nolan goes for the least obvious casting choices. Angelina as Catwoman would be distracting and retarded. Nolans characters dissapear into their parts. Jolie only dissapears into pregnancy. Her presence would ruin the entire movie. You movie nerds know nothing about actually making movies.
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And written by someone else. Let it be a period piece. It could work if the action was there. As mediocre as Iron Man was, it worked when many didn't see it working. Captain America, if done right, with the emphasis on good acting and ACTION, could work. Even more so than Superman.
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But hey, thanks for the compliments.
And you're right about the whip, but not a cat-o-nine-tails... a scourge. A nice, multi-tailed whip with sharp bits of metal on it (or hey, how about cat teeth or cat claws?) -- Yeah, I could see my version of Seline Kyle using it on some poor man who is strapped down--- Using it on his groin, talking about how men are the reason for all the evil in the world, and she's going to take care of them all, one by one.
My Catwoman wouldn't have a hint of blatant sexuality. She'd be covered neck to feet in her business suit. She would have lots of crazy in her eyes. She would relish the deaths of men. She would leave corpses that look like they've been torn up by some vicious animal at the front steps of their houses, to be discovered by their wives and children, and she would think she was doing the wives a FAVOR. She would be full of self-satisfaction at a job well done.
Oh, yes. I would love to write a Batman movie, but mine would have to be R-rated, and if the right director handled it, some members of the audience would probably need to throw up, and religious groups would protest outside the theaters. -
Did he all along. based on this:
http://tinyurl.com/5sxjj3
it seems like he wasn't planning for a 3rd one
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it's set in WWII. THAT's the America everybody loves-- when everything was new, idealistic, heroic, facing an 'ultimate evil.'It's not like they plan to have him dropping into the mid-East, taking orders from Cheney.
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How about Nolan making a period piece Cpt. America, that would work for me
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I'd go see your Batman movie, sounds badass
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If he's not turned into a gay stalker in a banana-sling speedo with an illegitimate kid, in an overlong movie with no action, an utterly retarded plot by the villain, and an ending that is one of the worst in modern cinema.Get rid of that stuff and Superman can work just fine.
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Should focus on making part 3 even better than 2. Forget Captain America. Leave that for someone else to take on. I left TDK with this weird, "I kind of don't want them to make another one" feeling. I liked it a lot and didn't think 3 would be as good. But I know Nolan can do it.
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I get the feeling we're going to get a Cap that's more like the Ultimate version than the 616 Marvel version. He'll be a gun-toting, 1940's conservative, ass-kicking, real-man, xenophobic patriot who, though narrow-minded, is relentless in his pursuit of justice.
Which will be cool, because he'll be working with the liberal, meditation-loving, peaceful Banner, who will balance out Cap's old-fashioned attitude, and the sex-crazed, alcoholic, gadget-loving Tony Stark, who will challenge Cap's ideas of morality.
The Avengers might be fun, actually. -
the first lecter movie, not that renny harlin movie. sorry got mixed up.
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I love Jack but the guy plays himself in every movie and he always has. The man has made a career out of being “Jack” on screen. The Shinning, Cuckoo’s Nest, The Departed, are all variations on the same character. He’s also won three Oscars for it so I think Jack’s been given plenty of credit. That said, his take on the Joker was weak, shallow and was nothing more than a paycheck. Anybody who has even the slightest working knowledge of the character knows that Nicholson’s performance bears no resemblance to the Joker in the comics while by contrast, Ledger nailed it so utterly and completely that his version will probably affect the way the character is handed from this point on. Lastly, to those people defending Burton’s vision, understand that Burton did nothing to preserve the integrity of the comic; he made a quirky, dark, goofy little film that works as an independent vision but bears no real connection to the source material. That’s not an insult but rather an astute observation.
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Nolans Batman should NEVER touch any type of Justice League crap movie they make or any gay ass Bat vs Supes movie.
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because I went in expecting a half-brain, fun superhero movie. Instead what I got was a fun superhero movie that forced me to pay attention and think about what the characters were doing, and why.
But I do agree with some of you above who said the ferry sequence (and the Dawes / Dent kidnapping) smacked a bit of the Goblin cable car sequence. Choose! Choose who lives! Who dies! You can't save them both! Whatever. -
SLAM!
The people in my audience went apeshit over that. -
Harrison Ford replacing Alec Baldwin as Jack Ryan.Anybody replacing Roger Moore as James Bond.That second Darren on 'Bewitched.'Other examples?
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given that he killed someone with a pencil. He's an offical card-carrying member of the Church for that one kill alone.
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Ben Asslick replacing Harrison Ford as Jack Ryan.
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She's a thief. There is alot they could do with her in the sequel. If they do use the Riddler and potray him like they do in the comics then it will show that even the small time crooks are turning into freaks.
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that there are actual creatures walking around the nation who liked Iron Man or The Incredible Hulk better than The Dark Knight. Who are these specimens? Lifelong Marvel fanboys? Robert Downey, Jr. or Ed Norton fanclub members? The mentally incompetent? I've never actually encountered one of these rejects, probably because they hide their warped views in real life. Only on a message board like this do they spout their bizarre belief that The Dark Knight isn't the best super hero movie of all time. It saddens and also frightens me a bit, that these people are out there. Oh well, enjoy your Iron Man (mediocre) and Incredible Hulk (boring, downright bad) DVDs when they arrive at Wal_Mart. Watch em as much as you want, huddled in your parents' basement this fall. But please, don't delude yourself into thinking you are normal. Only a deviant brain could ever think like you do.
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did anyone catch that, or is it too dark to see? no one mentions this but i thought it's too glaringly a bad call to make on nolan's part(studio needs to sell toys no doubt), too comic bookish for this movie.
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and serial killer stuff probably won't(and shouldn't) happen either. What you are talking about are rather excessive reimaginings of the character. Joker was darker than Burton yes, and obviously the tv series, but his actions would not be out of place in the comic book, especially something like the Killing Joke. While the two proposed courses for Catwoman or Riddler would be.
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Anthony michael hall wasnt the riddler like ive read people speculating. He'd be a shitty riddler
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I saw it, and originally thought, when did he make that. But I think, based on it's look, that it had been burned as well. I dont know if Harve found it at the hospital(maybe in the trash) but that was why the suit looked as it did. It had been burned.
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i must have missed it... but what's the purpose of bruce shooting all those bricks in his lair about? he said he wanted fingerprint onthe bullet, so what does the bricks shooting prove? anyone?
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It was his burnt suit.
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with the same character." I.e.,the Joker. I'm adamant about this: he was kept alive; he could have a future in the series; the story shouldn't suffer because one dude od'd.
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Thats pretty funny. Its okay to have jokers face all fucked up but Two Face was too disturbing? lol.
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It was a decent enough movie. But I still like Burton's Batman better. Probably more of nostalgia thing for me.
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Sabrina Lloyd. I like her. She'd be fun as a man-hating, ex-prostitute psychopath.
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YES, I couldn't agree more. You are exactly right. I'm a huge Jack Nicholson fan, but in Batman, he was just Jack Nicholson with some paint on. Yeah he danced and had a million one liners, but its not like he had to transform himself.
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Nolan has had huge success portraying the characters like they are in the comics. He is not going to completely change the Riddler around just to make a Joker clone.
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...however, his performance was heightened by the fact that he was the catalyst for that entire movie. he got to be the winner in a compex 2 1/2 hour crime saga. he got many cool lines, most of the laughs, he was fucking scary.
ledger was fucking great, but another interpretation of such an AWESOME FUCKING character isn't off-limits, IMO.
the nolans deserve more praise for a great joker than ledger does. -
Jul 21, 2008 12:49:23 PM CDT
Jor El, Octogoner, INWOsuxRED and Jonah and my issue
by sheriff john t chance
Jor El, I argue that he was going to take the mask and cape off and be handcuffed in the scene with the Harvey Dent presser. Dent just stepped up and figured Gothan needed Batman more than it needed him. To Octogoner and INWOsuxRED: I concede that according to the context of the movie, it made sense that he would sacrifice himself to safe Gotham, but my point is that Batman would never do that by givin up and turning himself in. He would be more motivated to catch the Joker at all means necessary, according to his moral fiber and ethics of course. Jonah: you got my scene and point pretty clearly and give me a great point to palatte. I had preconcieved notions as to who Batman is according to my own ideas. Looking back at the movie, Batman turining himself in makes sense. It is more of an origin story and he never facing a villain like this adds to his character development. Makes me anticipate pt 3 a lot more now.
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No, that's just it--Two Face was NOT too disturbing because his burns, bad as it looked, were not realistic. Someone else above mentioned that Nolan and co. did makeup tests for an authentic "burn look" and what they came up with (meaning, the true realistic look) was in fact horrible to behold. Whereas the look they went with is mildly shocking in a cinematic way, not a medical, true-life way.
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i meant the suit he wore, not the face. :)
but really, i understand it may get burn as well. but burn right down the middle? the face i could take, but the suit as well?
and the fact that harvey would even bother to go look for the suit and put it on himself is the single most unrealistic thing in the whole movie, for me. unrealistic in that it's out of character.
his love gone. ditto half his face. he's got revenge on his mind. and so he put on his burnt suit??? -
My doubts have been squashed. This is a great Batman movie. Thanks to all who showed me the way.
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I think my original choice of the Riddler as a serial killer, and Batman actually having to do DETECTIVE work would be good. I'm sick of Batman movies inching toward being James Bond flicks with more car chases than detective angles. I want The Batman to be shown as the brilliant Dark Knight detective his is, rather than just some rich dude who has his own "Q" to supply gadgets for him.
In my story, the Riddle would kill many people, and attempt to kill Lucius Fox... But Fox lives. He remains in critical condition for the majority of the movie, and Batman has to think his way through the problems instead of just throwing money at them. He doesn't get any new gadgets. He has to do classic detective work, and figure out the Riddler's clues in order to catch him.
The Riddler, like The Night Stalker or Zodiac, WANTS to be caught. He wants to be recognized for the genius he is-- But he feels secure either way. If Batman catches him, everybody knows his name. If Batman doesn't catch him, he has the satisfaction of knowing he beat the Batman.
He dresses normally. He wears no question marks anywhere on his body, but he is partial to green (green ties, green handkerchiefs, etc.-- Nothing too obvious. He is trying to blend in, after all.) The question mark is his calling card-- His symbol. He signs all his crimes with a "?" -- sometimes carved in the skin of his victims, sometimes hidden somewhere at the scene, sometimes in notes left behind, or written in blood on the walls.
My Riddler wouldn't be a buffoon. He'd be a scary-intelligent killer, desperate to be recognized as a genius. He wants people to know how clever he is. He wants to be in the papers. He wants people to see his puzzles.
He's not "teaching a lesson" or "getting revenge" -- It's all about being known as the cleverest guy in Gotham. -
It's glad to see someone else who thought Hulk was boring. That could have been a 15 minute opening to Iron Man. A quick look at him meditating, hulk out, fight bad guy, then the avenger reveal. Perfect. Every time I try to think of something cool that happened when the Hulk was on screen, I end up thinking of Ang Lee's Hulk, which is a bad sign.
Iron Man was very good though. I'm disappointed with him being a pussy at the end and needing help from Pepper, but that's how these movies are. Superheroes aren't that super and always need help from some person, usually female. -
...a different interpretation by another actor isn't off limits, IMO.
but, why do people keep mentioning joseph gordon levitt? if the kid from 3rd rock from the sun plays the joker...i'll blow up the other ferry.
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I understood the "surrender sequence" to mean that the two "crusaders" of the story, Bats/Bruce and Harvey, each recognized the need for the other to exist, and felt, rather unselfishly, that his counterpart had a better chance of "saving" Gotham from crime (and firstly, saving them from the Joker's killing spree). White Knight vs. Dark Knight. A dichotomy-juxtaposition of self-sacrificing heroes. And where Dent was willing to surrender himself as "the Batman," Bruce Wayne, in turn, as Batman, at the end of the movie finally decides to take the rap for acts he didn't commit if doing so is for the greater good and achieves a balance. The Dark Knight very much is a Tale of Two Christs.
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has it right on point when it comes to Riddler and Catwoman, id love those type of characters in part 3. And oh yes Nolan you better make a part 3.
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Because he looks like Heath. And with Make-Up you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But as far as his acting is concerned, he is good, but can he pull this off? No one knows. But remember Ledger had MANY doubts about him when they cast him. Eventhough he had an Oscar nom under his belt people still doubted. So this might be the same case. If not JGL, how about Ryan Gosling? He's a really good actor.
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Glad you liked it. I still like Begins, but I freaking love this movie, and it made me realize that Begins was merely a little setup for the main course. And yeah, I'm sick of all this Angelina as Catwoman talk... as though Angelina is the only woman who can be cast in a sexy role. They need someone who can act, and who can be an equal for Bruce Wayne. Kate Beckinsale has more the look of the Jim Lee Catwoman, but I dunno... I'm not sure a 'big name' actress should play her. Let's get some sexy Italian in there. I've heard Asia Argento tossed around... but I'm not sure she can get rid of that heavy accent. At any rate, I do think Bruce needs a real love interest at this point, otherwise he's gonna shoot himself.
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just like darth maul and boba fett is still alive.
keep hoping. and no, boba fett may have come out of the belly of the beast in the comics, but in the movie... dead dead dead. ditto two-face. -
Enough with Riddler talk. You're not going to see a Riddler in Nolan's Batman movies. He's going for realism, not cheese.
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What Ledger pulled off was a hell of a lot more than good writing, though that was certainly a factor. Regardless, the voice, the laugh, the ticks and mannerisms, all of that belongs to Ledger. There is simply no way to downplay his work on this film.
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Thats why Nolan is great he pulls these movies with no hint of cheese. You dont think in the wrong hands two-face and Joker wouldn't be cheese....oh yeah they were.
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Maroni survived the exact same fall. Two-Face survived a car crash. Batman survived the exact same fall. They NEVER said Two-Face was dead. They left it ambiguous on purpose, to keep their options open. Now, I'm not saying he's for sure alive or dead, but clearly it is an option that he's alive.
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as Catwoman
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supposed to Edward Nigma?
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It didn't bother me as much as BB, but fuck me if the writers don't just lose their shit when that vile thing enters the frame. Right up until then, save the "fall 50 stories, we OK" scene, we were watching Bat-Heat (and I was in my motherfuckin glory!). Then, enter GoofTank, stage left. All of a sudden it's fucking jumping to block RPGs and overpowering garbage trucks and spawning a fucking combat cycle out of JUST ITS FRONT AXLE! DAMNIT! I don't think Bat-vehicles work in Nolan's world. So we Jumped the Batmobile again, and then we're finally left with a climax with that Spidermanny Gotham=Good ferry SHIT. "You mess wit' one of us, you mess wit' all of us!"
It's all the Batmosuck's fault, yo. It's an evil, cinematic abortion. -
Spoilers ** It's a great twist at the end with plenty of purpose. Has Batman crossed the line and killed(as a last resort) or did he just take him out to return later? He’s now a criminal on the run because of it and that’s a great catalyst.
I'm sure Two Face is alive and I believe there's a hint from the scene when he drops Maroni, counting on him not being killed. Also, Nolan's universe needn't be restricted from larger than life and/or costumed villains. He's opened up the acceptability of other character's donning costumes, so there's no reason why those who seek to do harm as well as those mimicking him wouldn’t outfit up. I think a "Blockbuster" without a character or story arc that is identifiable to mainstream women would be seen as unacceptable. Personally, I'd love to see what he would do with Cat Woman although Nolan’s said he’s interested in exploring other, less exposed villains. I believe that’s what he wants but he just couldn’t ignore the Joker. One glaring note was the conspicuous concealment of Gordon’s daughter in that last scene? Nolan has something up his sleeve for the young Barbara Gordon, or at least he’s keeping the possibilities open. The pretentious Bale has stated that he’d quit if they brought in Robin. I’m not a fan of Batgirl or Robin, but I’d rather there be more open consciousness to the possibilities and exploring the premise of Bruce Wayne bettering the life of a young person, and/or Batman dealing with serious, meddling, young people with desire and some capability to follow his example, whether with or without him. -
Miller's contributions have been significant but so too have other writers and artists given much to the mythos. (I'd say The Long Halloween has been just as strong a driving force in influencing Nolan's work) I think the word you're looking for is overexposed; Miller is getting too much credit that rightly, others should share.
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i am down with.
JGL, a good actor, but...i just do not see it.
i still feel like they'll go depp first.
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Cannot act. She is cute but overrated. I did not see Mother of Tears, but her acting in the trailer was TERRIBLE. I didn't suggest Angelina because she is the "Only sexy girl". I suggested her because she is the correct age for this type of character. And I know that people "Hate" her, but she is a big female draw. And while TDK made money, you still can't alienate women. She still has their attention, whether we like her or not. People suggesting that she would "Distract" are just being silly. If they cast too young for the role, it's not equal to Bale. Meagan Fox? She wasn't even great in Transformers, she was just sex appeal in an action movie, and that's it. Eva Green is beautiful, but do people go think about Eva when they think of Casino Royale? No. Kate Beckinsale? She's no better than Jolie since she would just be playing a variation of her Underworld character. And she doesn't draw in the female demo. Emily Blunt, hot, but not right for this. Shannon Sossamon is too much like a low rent Angelina so no to her too. Casting a female lead is always tricky. I guess one wildcard guess would be Hathaway. All her films made over 100 million, and she's such a crazy choice that it may work.
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Secretary anyone? She's sexy in a strange S&M kind of way but not overtly so. She's got the right look being attractive but not so attractive that she would hate men. Attractive women don't hate men because they have power over them.
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Let me start by saying that Ledger was great in this movie and the end of the movie was painful only because that was the end of Heath right there on the big screen. We won't get any more entertainingly brilliant pieces of work by him. With that said, anyone out there screaming that no one can replace him really needs to get a life. I'm not saying that I want to see a replacement, but there's really no choice. Anyone that would choose to follow what Ledger created would probably have to be pretty daring, an attribute that Leadger himself possessed when creating this character. Also, try to give the Nolans SOME credit for the creation and portrayal of this Joker, being that it was a writing and directing combo that brought him to life along with the actor. It will be hard, but it can happen. Just hope that the next movie is just as strong as this one and epic in scope, that will be half the battle.
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He may end up being that character, but they'll never use that actor. He's a nobody
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Wouldn't that have to be the name of the next one, implying he has went away? Wouldn't it be interesting if we see a future where Gotham has been eradicated of crime, at least to a degree that good clean cops can handle (Gordon being commisioner would have a huge hand in that to further develope Oldman's Commish)? Or do we believe that Gotham will always be full of crime thus will always need Batman? Either way the 3rd part would not be a returning but more of a continuation of how Batman evolves into a mean crime fighting machine that has seen it all and can adapt to any crime? That could eliminate the drama of the story. Unless a serial killing Riddler (that would be interesting) comes about. His crimes and riddles could emulate the Joker and or Dent from TDK and that would confuse Batman and get him to going deeper into his psyche because he's intentionally being messed with on a psychological basis. Pushing not only his detective skills but his self realization of his necessity to protect Gotham and be always be Batman. That could also be a way to introduce a "new Joker" that would be like the last but really isn't. Thus passing the torch to continue the Joker, but without cheapening the Ledger Joker. Thoughts?
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The technology used in the escape from Hong Kong is real, early Cold War stuff.
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What do I care is in the sequel to this? In Nolan I Do Trust.
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What do I care is in the sequel to this? In Nolan I Do Trust.
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ledger was great. not downplaying it at all. his voice was spot on. his physicality was interesting and weird. his delivery was timed perfectly. all of these...were great. he took on a completely different life. it was (again) great.
in what i would (personally) grade an A-/A movie, he was written an A+ character. the choices they made in not revealing his origin, the groundwork laid with the(un)organized crime, the shock of the pencil trick, the deck was stacked in ledger's favor with this role.
and he did a GREAT job.
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Batman Must Die!
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Geez, it was good, but that's ALL it was. There is NO Oscar written all over this story. It was a decent action flick, but instead of the guys from Lethal Weapon we have Batman. Which is actually sad. I like my Batman to live in the imaginative Gotham City, not Chicago. And Bales performance was wooden and un-interesting as the first film.
In fact, the emphysema ridden blustery vocals of a strangled Christian Bale borders on being comical, if not down right goofy. Ledger's Joker was fun but predictable, if not somewhat wimpy.
They could have easily shaved 30 minutes off the run-time as well and saved my ass some bed sores. I dare say I won't be making the trip back to Gotham City any time soon...at least not THIS Gotham City. -
I don't think Selina Kyle is meant to have jowls like a bulldog and big black rings under her eyes. Chick looked like an orc in TDK.
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even Batman wouldn't survive the southside of Chicago at the moment
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Attractive women don't hate men? Some do, very much. They relish abusing the power they have over men because they dislike them so much; typically for being weak and selfish and for burdening them with their desires. Ask a SMART, attractive woman, if she's ever felt burdened by the way men react to her looks.I'm not hacking on you, man. I'm just saying that female psychology is far more complex than that.
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Hmmm...GIJoe loved using the skyhook in the comics, so I was mentally prepared since childhood for how it would work out. But you're right in that just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good idea for the screen. Speaking of silly, read my little Batmobile rant. I just hate that damn thing. I wanted to keep watching Bat-Heat, but eventually the comic book elements got inside the gates. (Cell phone thing = Gay, too.) I knew I wasn't the right audience for the movie, because eventually I got to thinking that Ledger's Joker would have worked a lot better in a Michael Mann world than in one that was forced to squeeze Batman in there somehow.
Did anyone else find it silly anytime Batman was well-lit? Nolan should keep him in the shadows. He only "works" on film at night. -
how about a new piece of ass that can act a little.
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Batman With A Vengence
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I can't find the comments anywhere but what is the old grouch complaining about this movie? He banned the discussion on his website.
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has tatooed eyeliner, im convinced. Hes a gay!
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slugbat said- "Did anyone else find it silly anytime Batman was well-lit? Nolan should keep him in the shadows. He only "works" on film at night." Yep. Me. atman does NOT need to be fully lit, EVER...as Dark Knight demonstrates.
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slugbat said- "Did anyone else find it silly anytime Batman was well-lit? Nolan should keep him in the shadows. He only "works" on film at night." Yep. Me. Batman does NOT need to be fully lit, EVER...as Dark Knight demonstrates.
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Burton's Gotham looked like something out of A Nightmare Before Christmas or Sweeny Todd; it never looked even remotely real. Gotham in the comics is a city, not a moody sound stage. Also, what exactly about Ledger's performance was predictable? That he nailed the role while bringing something fresh to it? And how was his Joker wimpy? He literally cuts people into chum, blows innocents up, and shoves a pencil through a man's eye socket. He makes the Nicholson and Hamil Jokers look absolutely tame by comparison.
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Y'all Lost fans?
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I can't believe that you would not find any fault with The Tiny Show and the Magical Love Boats. I have lost a little respect for you, good sir. Not a lot, just a little.
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Would guarantee a shitload of bad puns, "Mroww" lines, and seduction scenes. DO NOT WANT!
I adore Ms. Green, but I do not want yet another vampy, silly, seductive Catwoman. It's silly as shit. -
Killer Croc. So if you're gonna talk about who should play whom, start talkin' Croc. More marquee villains (Penguin, Freeze, Riddler, etc) probably wouldn't come off well in Nolan's nightmare Gotham. He used Joker because 1) he HAD to--it's the Joker; and 2) Heath Ledger played 'im.
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The only way I can think of is if you do it the way I described earlier: A musclebound freak with tattoos, piercings, filed teeth, and a crocodile fetish, like "the lizard man" (Google him). Either way, I think he'd have to be completely re-written to work in Nolan's world. The comic book version would be too much silly fucking bullshit for these movies.
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The physicality demanded of Catwoman would ensure cartoony action. We'd be forced to watch some scrawny 20 something little girl using tightly coached gym kicks to displace a man twice her weight with heavy armor. Perish the thought. Elektra, here we come!
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wtf is up with the Ferry/Debo saves the day scene hatred? .Loved the look on Jokers face when nothing blew up
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I'm guessing there'll soon come a day where having a less-than-100%-positive opinion of any movie that cost over $150 million to make and about a major comic books character will be illegal.
I enjoyed most of Heath Ledger's performance (although IMO, Jack Nicholson was literally conceived in the womb to play the Joker, and nothing in The Dark Knight spooked me so giddily as the sequence in Tim Burton's 'Batman' where Jack gets his bandages taken off, looks in the surgeon's mirror, and starts weeping/cackling like a maniac). I also enjoyed a lot of the scale of the movie (shots from the tops of skyscrapers, etc.), and I liked the underground tunnel chase sequence with the Joker firing bazookas at the security van, and Batman's roping the semi truck with his Batcycle - yeah, that was all pretty darned cool. (But I still think the Gotham City that Anton Furst designed for Burton's flick was WAY more imaginative and satisfyingly comic-booky than The Dark Knight's just generically using an actual metropolitan city.)
I kept getting exhausted and repulsed by how The Dark Knight continually had its cake and ate it too, by how it shoved oppressively bleak moments in our faces, then turned away from them later on: Gary Oldman gets shot, and we have to deal with his wife breaking down and screaming at the policeman who inform her of his death; but a half-hour later: no, he's not really dead! We have to watch minute after minute of prisoners and civilians on two different barges decide whether or not to detonate explosives rigged to the others' boat, and linger over their "screw everyone else, I'm totally in it for myself" rottenness (and *no one* on either boat stands up and says, "stop these madmen!" -- but oh yeah, then the prisoner decides to throw the detonator out the boat window, and the civilian decides he doesn't have the heart to go through with it -- so you see, folks, the moviemakers finally demonstrated to us that these people REALLY aren't rotten after all, even though they've just forced us to deal with five straight minutes of odious human nature. And then we have to endure another five solid minutes of Aaron Eckhart's character's holding a gun to a child's head, to possibly avenge his girlfriend's death, while Batman stands by and does nothing except to try to talk him out of it.
So many scenes seemed intentionally designed to make us all feel powerless against society's innate evil, and linger over and shove the rottenness of humanity down the audience's throats. The constant foisting of fear and oppression and helplessness, going hand in hand with vigilante justice (and even an indirect justification of the Patriot Act, with Bruce Wayne's radio-monitoring device) made me wonder if Dick Cheney had co-written the screenplay. My wife and I left the theater both wondering out loud, is THIS the movie that our country really needs to be tuning into right now? But of course, we're only two small voices amongst the movie's $150 million opening weekend, and after all (as so many fanboys are quick to point out), "it's only a movie."
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I wouldn't depict him as the green, reptilian-looking dude we've seen in the recent animated serieseses. Rather, I'd portray him as a sinewy, wet grey looking dude, but yes, with croc teeth and eyes and a slightly elongated snout. I think Nolan and co. could pull this off, mostly because unlike Penguin / Riddler / etc. the general public wouldn't have a preconceived notion of what Croc SHOULD look like.
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You sound pissed
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Look into it.
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I trust Nolan as well. But then, I also trusted Sam Raimi until Spidey 3
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He jus tdoesn't fit into Nolan's ultra-realism. And thus I shall never see a great live-action version of this charcater on the big screen. Next villain will have to be Riddler, Catwoman, or in all likelyhood Penguin. That's fine. I'm just sad I'll never see my beloved Viktor Freeze.
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Obviously the point of the cell phone sonar storyline was to make a statement against spying on the public, not to support it. That's why Fox blew it up at the end.
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Unless things have changed in the DC Universe of the Comic Book realm, Batman will ultimately be an officially deputized agent of Gotham City with high authority right up there and answering only to Jim Gordon and the Mayor. I would fully expect this change as this franchise grows over time, perhaps even in the third installment. I also fully expect the continued success and quality, as Nolan has delivered, to birth this new generation of Batman flicks not as "sequels" per say, so much as being a continual body of work, each piece able to stand on its own and persisting from now until Doomsday (a la James Bond).
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I stand corrected... that would be pretty damn sweet. I didn't think about that approach...
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Always great to meet someone else who values intelligent conversation as much as you do. F*ck all you moronic fanboys, you've been marginalized for years, and then you just act as arrogantly and viciously towards people who disagree with you as the asshole jocks who terrorized you in the locker room. Now that's learning constructively from the past.
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That people paid $100+ for tickets to sold out shows? Heard this on the drive in and wondered if there was any truth to it.
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"Obviously the point of the cell phone sonar storyline was to make a statement against spying on the public, not to support it. That's why Fox blew it up at the end." Yet another example of The Dark Knight's having its cake and eating it too. HoboCode and everyone else who buy this line of thinking obviously believe everything they read. You're like the Bush Administration's wet dream of shit-eating citizens who will eat anything they feed you, and believe anything they tell you, and your ignorance and gullibility makes me f*cking sick to my stomach. But oh yeah, "it's just a movie."
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What, so you reckon that Nolan and company will suddenly lose all control of themselves and write endless "pussy" puns? Thats retarded. All previous iterations of Batman have included bad puns about all the major characters, and there were none in both Begins and Dark Knight. Its not like the movies wrote and directed themselves
I actually like the idea of a vigilante prostitute. Perhaps she could reinvented as a high price call girl whose clients are largely the rich and powerful (and crooked) of Gotham City. She uses her access to rip them off, blackmail them, and/or kick their asses. There is an element of cheesecake exploitation there, sure, but even Nolan's Batman is a fetish object. I mean he still dresses up like a bat and has ninja powers. I don't know if thats where he will go, but the door has been opened to the idea of copy-cats, showing an example, and armor being good against cats. Probably just a tease, but it could be there, and it could work, even in the context of Nolan's more realistic and hyper-grim universe.
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I think your approaches are a little too far into the banal of the real world. Yes, Nolan's world has a grounded feel, but it is without it's majesty and fantastical detail. Joker and Two Face arent more realistic depictions, only slightly modified. They were no more preposterous for the most part, in the comics. Some representations, yes, but mostly they were the same.
You also seem to be confusing Nolan with Fincher. Nolan is more interested, it seems, in noirish puzzles and moral quandries, and not a high freak or violence qoutient. With straight serial killers, you step outside the walls of morality because most are nuts. Joker was not a representation of a serial killer, but a pure agent of chaos. He is realistic, but he is still something exotic and unique, that wouldn't quite exist in this form in the real world. -
I think your approaches are a little too far into the banal of the real world. Yes, Nolan's world has a grounded feel, but it is without it's majesty and fantastical detail. Joker and Two Face arent more realistic depictions, only slightly modified. They were no more preposterous for the most part, in the comics. Some representations, yes, but mostly they were the same.
You also seem to be confusing Nolan with Fincher. Nolan is more interested, it seems, in noirish puzzles and moral quandries, and not a high freak or violence qoutient. With straight serial killers, you step outside the walls of morality because most are nuts. Joker was not a representation of a serial killer, but a pure agent of chaos. He is realistic, but he is still something exotic and unique, that wouldn't quite exist in this form in the real world. -
Atleast the movie made you think... you're completely wrong, but atleast it made you think :) Nicholson's- was just himself with a white face and green hair. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. Jack's character in Departed might as well have been called Jack Napier. I personally liked the 'real world' take on Gotham. Batman and Returns make it very apparent they were shot on a studio lot. Look at the snow in Returns, the Batmobile is blowing it as it drives, terrible. I could see why you would enjoy that architecture and gargoyles, etc -- but re-watching them it's like Batman was suddenly thrust into the Nightmare Before Christmas. I thought what they did with Gordon showed us how far they had to go to try to capture the Joker. I'm of the believe that none of the 2.5 hours was wasted and everything had some point, moral, theme to teach us or add to the overall story. I loved the film, it's by no means perfect, but I enjoyed it and left wanting more -- and to see it again, a rarity these days.
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it ISNT without it's majesty and fantastical detail."
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I posted a response to the Harvey Dent question up above.
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Wow, solid point. SM3 was the total no vaseline assf*cking. On that note, what is one 3rd movie of a franchise that hasn't blown ass? Besides LOTR:ROTK.
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Take your medication. The only person viciously and arrogantly attacking anyone here is YOU.
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Something about Ledgers performance struck me as kinda good.
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Coming onto a 'nerd board' and making stereotypical observations of its posters is no better than the things that pissed you off in the first place. Characterizing everyone that likes comic book movies as the nerds who got picked on by jocks in high school? Your last reference to teen culture sounds like Marty McFly's 1955. And who says 'have your cake and eat it too' anymore? My grandma doesn't even say that.Also, I'm guessing you were one of the punishing jocks, grasping onto what I'm sure was a promising athletic career at the University of Southern Cali (going by the Username) But hey, you had to pick between being a dickhead only or going pro, afterall, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Either him or Phosphorus Man. I think they'd both fit in with Nolan's gritty realistic world and would be a refreshing change from the usual Top Ten Bat-Villains we keep seeing over and over again... Crazy Quilt might also be an interesting gritty choice...
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.. that was a very good review,
Hail! -
USC could also stand for University of South Carolina. Which would make him a gamecock.
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You know it, I know it.
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All I can say is, it's thinking like yours which is the reason Bush and Cheney got in the White House in the first place, and have stayed there for eight years straight. So, bravo and hats off to you and your kind.
And hey, HoboCode, go check out any of the postings on rottentomatoes re: negative reviews of The Dark Knight,and how anyone who doesn't think the movie is all that is getting their ass handed to them. Ten bucks says the 3rd chapter of Nolan's Batman trilogy will be about Batman and the villians all getting together to go after those in the moviegoing audience who are in the minority of opinion. I am just incredibly angered and saddened by how anyone in this country of ours who expresses dissent gets jumped on and chided and derided: and now, in the case of TDK, it's from the once-marginalized fanboy contingency, who has proven that they can be just as big a group of condescending assholes as any of the jocular pricks on ESPN, or the blowhards on FOX News. -
I kinda see where your coming from, but I think you are honestly taking this way too seriously.
If you liked it or didn't like the movie fine, your own opinion. If you don't like reading comments about the movie...
Click on that X that is in the top right corner of your screen.
I mean seriously. You get on here and you start calling people ignorant and arrogant, oh and lets not forget that you stereotype an entire group of people.
As far as the political aspect of it, maybe TDK isn't what our country should be watching, but maybe.. just MAYBE.. people should be able to distinguish fact from fiction. Sport from reality. I love watching MMA and Football, doesn't mean I'm going to go kick someone in the throat.
Why?
Because I know the difference between right and wrong.
So really, lighten up. Its not like coming on here and calling people ignorant,arrogant, and moronic makes you look like a genius. In fact, I'd say it almost seemed like you were throwing a temper tantrum.
So please, lets just take it down a notch. Afterall it is just a movie. -
movie was fucking awesome man
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to me Mr. freeze would seem like the next logical villain with the story progression. Bruce having lost Rachel is on that thin line of losing everyting while Freeze would be that mirror of what happens when a person is fighting for one thing and puts that above everyone else's lives. How Nolan would actualize freeze i dont know but it would work
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The Dark Knight is a movie for people who are exhausted by the difficulties of maintaining democracy, and would be okay with fascism taking its place and "setting things straight." So yeah, in that sense, it DOES reflect our post-9/11 Dubya golden era.
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Don't you know that I'm a Stalin worshipping commie liberal? Shit, I would argue I'm the most left-leaning person on this site, and yet here you are accusing me and others of being a suppporter and apologist for the current administration just because we see issues as being more complex than black and white.
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that is all...
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is dying from an incurable cancer and his cells need to stay below a certain temp to keep from spreading. Booyah Mr. Freeze is born!
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I did find that highly ironic!
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for Robin! Make it happen.
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Maybe Nolan's next chapter of Batman will have Bale and Caine and Freeman waterboarding the villains to extract some info, or making them pile into a naked pyramid of prisoners smeared with dog feces -- and Freeman will say, "okay, I really disagree with this approach - but we'll just do it THIS ONE TIME." And it'll still get a PG-13 rating. Totally awesome, dudes. Now that's entertainment.
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WOW Amazing. I love how you have classified everyone into one giant heap. I'm also amazed that you have put out that much effort writing about political viewpoints on AICN.com.
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It's true. Jack Bauer is his hero.
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GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy fuck that's the best idea I've hear in a while. Emerson as Riddler would fucking be perfect. PER. FECT.
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I love your Riddler idea.
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You want to know a way to up the ante? Do something we haven't seen yet in any of these films? Here's how:
You continue with the theme of Batman being hunted. This was explored perfectly in Miller's, The Dark Knight Returns, which brings me to the next film's adversary - - - Superman.
I know, they're not going to do it. But, if they did...Superman is the boy scout agent of the government, asked to bring down this "murdering vigilante" in Gotham. He takes the job, but finds Batman a little harder to deal with than expected. Fox can create the armor for the Batman mech-suit, and can assist in synthesizing kryptonite.
You don't keep the same ending as The Dark Knight Returns though, instead having Batman & Superman coming to terms, a grudging respect for each other...Supes learns that Batman didn't murder those people. AND this would also nicely setup a Justice League film!
There'd still be room in this film for plenty of Batman's minor rogue's gallery to keep him busy, but his main fight would be with the man in blue.
Not a retread — not yet seen — c'mon Warner Brothers, I DARE YOU. -
You need to give a public apoligy here on this board for talking so much shit about Batman and Nolan Etc for the last year straight and now loving the Dark Knight. and as for Gordon Levitt all you need to see is the films Mysterious Skin, The Lookout and Stop Loss to see how great he is. BUT NEVER RECAST LEDGER'S JOKER IN THE NOLAN SERIES
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Thanks man. To paraphrase Heath Ledger, I'm just trying to throw a little anarchy into the AICN mix, make people think about things they don't usually think about, cause some REAL chaos amongst the fanboys, because you know what - they @#$% DESERVE IT.
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no dmohrUSC, the reason I liked it is cuz Batman is cooler than you are. You are an assclown. If you made a movie about yourself you'd watch it because you think you know more and know better than everyone else. Congrats, now go root for a school that condones breaking the rules and "having its cake and eating it too"... Assclown
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I say Iron Man.
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i knew someone else would see it! thanx man!
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you all know it is true. in nolan's gotham, michael emerson IS the riddler...
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IGN actually wrote an article that has how they would treat Batman villians in Nolans reality based world.
Dmohr- Why did you even watch the movie? Batman is a vigilante, he does take law into his own hands, so if you KNEW that going into the movie... why in the HELL did you watch it? Every superhero does the same thing, they all break the law to achieve a goal. So just stop watching them. Go spend some time picketing outside the white house and stop watching movies if your that fucking concerned. -
...for 8 years of the bush administration?
"i'm going to go on ainitcoolnews.com and pick a political fight with people in the batman thread...also, i found a wife?!"
-dmohrUSC '08
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Whoever the fuck he is!
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Fuck me, I'm still fantasizing about it. I was all for the Penguin until Kyle brought up the perfect casting call. Emerson as a Zodiac-like Riddler would be the asolute SHIT! Do it Nolan.
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Seriously, someone said that? I think it was a slight jab at best. If it was meant with any malice or feeling of superiority, Nolan can go fuck himself, I don't care how great he is. Burton's Batman was awesome. And I'm sure those of you in my age range either agree or pretend to disagree because you don't want to admit that you almost pissed your geek pants when it came out.
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I have to agree with Danny there. Weak!!!!!
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Nah, man, TDK pwns IRON MAN. TDK kinda pwns all super-hero movies, actually. Someone said it before, up above, but, yeah, I kinda think TDK ust killed every super-hero movie. They all seem monumentally silly now. Which is cool, I like silly too, but TDK is on a while 'nother level. If the measure of a hero and his/her story can be determined by the villain (as Unbreakable contended), then the Joker just raised the bar so high it just ripped the roof off the sucka.
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LOL. If not, Emerson is Benjamin Linus on LOST.
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You may revel in The Dark Knight's hopelessness and even enjoy losing your own faith in humanity. But I'll never lose my faith in humanity, and no amount of shitty, fascism-endorsing comic-book movies will ever convince me otherwise. Love ya, brother.
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A very interesting idea. One that makes too much sense for it to be pulled off. WB would have to concede that Superman is kaput as a standalone Superhero franchise -at least for now, and Nolan would have to re-tool to accomodate such a large presence that would be Superman. But beyond that, the ridicuous plot of Batman taking responsiblity for the murders would have to be worked out. That really irked me about the movie because it makes absolutely no sense. If there are eyewitnesses to the murder, then they would identify someone not wearing a cape and cowl as the killer. If there are no eyewitnesses, then why 'fess up anyway? A city the size of gotham has multiple murders that go unsolved. And why it is necessary for Batman to be the villain when cobvering up for Harvey, is beyond me. Purely plot driven hole, and one of the truly wrong notes in an otherwise very enjoyable flick.
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That would explain that if Harvey Dent is alive why he'd be swept off to undisclosed location without due process. Not a clue how he'd get out, though. Bane is my choice for a big bad. After the havoc Joker wreaked on the Gotham crime syndicates the whole city is up for grabs. So why not have Penguin and Bane in a go-for-broke mob war.
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Not even close.
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think about the CHARACTER of the riddler. the riddler doesn't "kick ass."
man, some time's on this site i would kill to know who is on the other side of these talkback handles, but you, my friend. i would just be content to see a picture of you room! -
or Hugo Strange would make good villains in Nolan's Gotham, but I doubt they're well enough known to pack any kinda box office punch.
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Thats the real question.
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deserve a better class of semen...and I'm gonna give it to 'em.
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Yeah I noticed that too about him. I love that anyone who like Batman or is on this board is a "nerd" or a "fanboy".. and that we all got beat up by jocks. I mean I guess it doesn't matter that I played sports.. and haven't reacted negatively to negative reviews.
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so I'm just stirring the pot a little with that IM ref. If TDK is truly such a great movie, I'd give all credit to Ledger. They were playing Brokeback all weekend and I ended up watching it twice, and damn if he isn't (or was destined to be) one of the true greats.
Hobo ... is that you, Node? I don't watch Lost, so the Emerson ref is lost on me. -
seem to make it a point to awkwardly and suddenly insert their political stance into their posts, no matter how irrelevant to the topic at hand. And lately they claim to be liberals who hate Bush, while they froth and rage and act like assholes...Is this a plot by conservatives to try making nerds hate liberals by acting like hysterical assholes and claiming to be lefties?
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Yeah it's me Node. Node got banned while you were on your honeymoon. And I think anyone who watches and enjoys LOST could easily see Emerson as the Riddler. It's as obvious as having Patrick Stewart play Viktor Freeze.
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Jul 21, 2008 3:30:09 PM CDT
SUPERMAN AND BATMAN NEED TO OCCUPY SEPARATE UNIVERSES
by bringingsexyback
A live action movie with both characters would not go over well at all. Batman just needs to exist in his own dark, slightly non-superpowered universe.
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"You may revel in The Dark Knight's hopelessness and even enjoy losing your own faith in humanity. But I'll never lose my faith in humanity." IT IS FICTIONAL. If you can't distinguish between reality and fiction then your truely the most ignorant person on this board.
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It's sort of hard to tell from the TB headers.
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You didn't just hate on batman begins you hated on all things batman and talked shit on dark knight before it came out so man up and apologize
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oh...well with a handle like that i just imagined...i don't even know what i imagined hahaha.
at any rate. i respectfully disagree about emerson. i would love to see what that cat could do with weaving lies, traps and riddles at light speed in nolan's universe. -
The audience I saw it with applauded that part.
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To each his own I guess, but to me he's consistently amazing as Ben.
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Have you seen it yet? Is it playing where you are?
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I agree your inspired casting suggestion is perfect. Emerson would be the perfect nutjob to play Riddler.
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"Dmohr- Why did you even watch the movie? Batman is a vigilante, he does take law into his own hands, so if you KNEW that going into the movie... why in the HELL did you watch it? Every superhero does the same thing, they all break the law to achieve a goal. So just stop watching them. Go spend some time picketing outside the white house and stop watching movies if your that fucking concerned." Let me tell you why I watch movies, TO HAVE FUN, and The Dark Knight is BARELY ANY FUN AT ALL. I *loved* Burton's Batman, saw it six times in the theater, because it was so witty and imaginative and spellbinding to look at. I saw The Dark Knight once, and honestly never want to see it again as long as I live (I'll watch the tunnel chase scene on DVD at someone's house someday). It was a painful and excruciatingly un-fun experience to sit through, that was designed to force as much suffering, punishment, fear, oppression, hopelessness and helplessness on the audience as possible, to have them believe in the innate rottenness of humanity, and the need for justice outside the law. In other words, an almost-total CROCK OF SHIT, folks. And, worse than its lack of heart and humanity, was its lack of entertainment value: it was a goddamned slog to get through. So there you go, The Dark Knight sucks, as both entertainment and as supposed social commentary. Go masturbate over how profound its take on humanity is - yeah, it's about as profound as a Nine Inch Nails song, "stuck in this hole with the shit and the piss." You go right ahead and lap all that delicious shit and piss up, fanboys.
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Five straight shutouts of The Wire for a best dramatic series nom? Please.
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Yeah I know what you mean. You know what those people remind me of? I used to work at a book store while I was in college and there were all these guys that would sit around and talk about things, bitching about the government and shit. On my last day I went up to them and was like "If your that fed up with it, why don't you try and fix it or move to a different country." Not much of a response. Most of them were just talking about that stuff.. because they had nothing else to talk about. It was always "someone elses fault" or they needed to put blame on someone or something to make up for their pathetic dreaming ways.
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inject some conscience into the Batman? One can dream!!!
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Might be too used to playing things a bit wacked out for this franchise. Why do all the villains have to mentally disturbed? Isn't being a ruthless motherfucker enough? I'd much rather prefer the Riddler as master-thief than as a freak of psychology. Watch the animated series if you're not convinced such a character can't be compelling.
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Which is usually not how its done on AICN, but I think the majority want the Riddler in part 3, aka Batman Must Die
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That star didn't shine too long ...
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So fine it sucks. You win.. you happy? You don't like it, thats fine. Great. Is there a reason to call people names over it?
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I say they come up with an original villain. And bring Alicia Silverstone back.
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you might want to find a different way of having fun. you sound like the most miserable sack to troll this site.
maybe for fun you might want try instigating political arguments on aintitcool.com. maybe THAT would be fun for you?
try it. -
Hopelessness? I won't dumb you down with explaining the development of a character and how each movie is a stage in this character's evolution into a hero. That is clearly beyond you. You have to view the world as a allegory, in everyway and everything. Like when Palahniuk describes the future universe in Fight Club, being run by corporations, you scream at the pages and explode in your pants. You feel like someone has grasped your voice and put it to a megaphone. Well, good for you. Your still an Assclown. You have hope for humanity but you waste your time in TB ripping at fanboys and what they enjoy doing. Going to movies and talking about them. Well, if your time and voice is so valuable, run for office. Put your brass balls out there tough guy. Get on a ticket and stand up for humanity. Until then, leave the fanboys out of it. It seems that your vision of humanity is one without people who like movies about good guys and bad guys and shit blowing up. I personally love that shit. Well, I guess excluding us as worthwhile people and calling us fanboys sounds a little unhumanitarian to me, Assclown.
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Jul 21, 2008 3:45:06 PM CDT
I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME BAM! POW! BOOM! GRAPHICS IN NEXT MOVIE
by bringingsexyback
Adam West will always be the Batman of our hearts!!!
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I don't think the next villian has to be just a pyschopath. I would have no problem having a Riddler that is in it for the money. Because the movie wouldn't just be about Batman vs. the Riddler, it would be about Batman having to constantly battle GCPD and the Riddler. I don't want him to dress up in a green suit with question marks, but a hacker genius that could always be setting up the pieces would be attractive.
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Would that make you happy Dmohr?
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I'm not anywhere near a movie theater, there aren't any, not for several hundred miles. I will not be seeing TDK until it comes out on DVD next year, or if its stil in the theaters in late September.
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To me, that's entertaining. If I want to have fun, I watch America's Funniest Videos. Like I did last night.
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Think of all the times something happened on the screen and then a character explained what you just saw. I'm sure that's for the benefit of children, but this isn't a kids' film. For that, no nod.
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I wish someone could send you a bootleg or they would give you guys some special free viewings.
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Bad things happen and some bad people kill some other people. The characters fight these bad people though, and at the end they're still fighting, wounded but unbeaten, brave. They took some hits but they're not quitting. It's hopeful that, at least within the universe of the movie, humans rise to the occasion with courage and strength and faith. Evil didn't win; it just got some tough blows in.And I don't think a one-time-only use of eavesdropping technology to catch a mass murderer is fascist. The goddamn machine self-destructed at the end.
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Hey dude! TDK is indeed a very good summer flick. It does not live up to the hype as best ever -there are some airplane sized plotholes that bring it back to earth and keep it from being truly great, but Ledger is the real deal. Just a mesmerizing performance. The movie is a damn good summer flick though, easily the best of the summer, and one of the best of the year. It is a superhero action flick though, and some people will read too much into it and some too little. It is very entertaining and should be enjoyed without the extraneous notions or hype that some people just can not seem to separate their movies from. You will enjoy it immensely though.
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your bitching and hate for begins will always be remembered and I will think of you as flip flop for now on oh yes that's right.
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It is old school week around here. How is newlywed life treating you?
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Now that I'd pay to see! Talk about evil ...
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Haters= people who have no concept of the characters at all or who are such rabid pathetic fanboys they automatically thing ANY deviation from the source material means it sucks. I love Batman have since I was 5 years old and I'm 31 now, and I have no problem with a little deviation from the source material as long as the spirit of the character is retained. Prime example despite the white face is make up I still believe Heath Ledger portrayed the Joker as he was originally meant to be. I saw Burton's Batman again Sunday and Nicholson's performance can not hold a candle to Heath's Joker. This is also the first movie to portray Batman at his best. As a detective, a kick ass warrior, and a selfless, willing to sacrifice hero. No other portrayal has come close to this. The movie was brillant pure and simple. Perfect? no, but brillant nonetheless. As far as the future of the series I'm torn. I don't see how this can be topped but I don't want to see it end either. As far as villans go, I would love to go deeper with Two-Face see him again. Penguin and/or Catwoman? I'm not sure. Penguin would make an excellent crime boss figure as would Black Mask. Bane could be brought in much like he was in the cartoon the mob's answer to taking out the Bat. Maybe he doesn't break his back but he does hurt Batman pretty bad and then double crosses the mob and takes over and the mob must rely on the man they tried to eliminate to save them. Although that might be a little to similar to the Joker storyline. Penguin would proably be the best bet as a new player taking over the power vacuum in Gotham's underworld make it a "war games" type story line but with Penguin because he's more recognizable than Black Mask. Ridder? I don't know. They could play off the recent storyline in Detective Comics except start him out as a legit private detective who goes bad or does his crimes under the guise of the riddler and then solves them as Edward Nygma to make himself look good and the Riddler side of him takes over completely, or something like that. Mr. Freeze, Maxie Zues, Poison Ivy, and all those just seem to fantasical to me to work in Nolan's take on the Batman universe. Personally I would love a return of Ras Al Ghul or the arrival of Talis Al Ghul, however I won't be heartbroken if that does not happen. I don't see how a third can top TDK but I know it won't be for the lack of trying. I do look forward to it.
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Hey man ... I like it! Can't wait to get to the other phases like babies and diapers. I've been watching a lot of Jon and Kate Plus 8 recently, and think having sextuplets would be fun as hell ...
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cast Patton Oswalt. That is all.
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Haha Why so serious?
Oh and don't forget that you hated Dark Knight too and talked shit on that film untill Nolan shut your mouth and made you love his shit. HAHA -
Jul 21, 2008 4:01:04 PM CDT
AS LONG AS TDK DON'T HAVE A WATER EVAPORATION DOOMSDAY MACHINE
by bringingsexyback
I'll be very happy ...
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that's the BEAUTY of michael emerson being the riddler. he will accentuate the riddler's intellect. i think nolan should go to make him sane as possible. with one side effect: he feels he is too smart to have to play by the rules...
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and not make any more Batman movies. Such is the lesson Spidey 3 has taught us.
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Geek- Love your take on it man. That was awesome, I agree with every word you said.
Danny- Why tell someone to die? A little over the top. Its not that serious. -
Skimming through this TB I have noticed tht people are claiming to have cried, claimed that they have "witnessed" the greatest piece of art ever. Blah, blah, blah statments like that sort of sour on a movie me if I get smacked in the face with them to many times. Its a movie and its entertainment. Plus its about a dude who dresses up like a flying rat. I'm glad to hear it was entertaining and fun. I'm looking forward to seeing it some day.
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What up? How're you holding up in this damned heat wave?
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Jul 21, 2008 4:08:39 PM CDT
What short, squat looking actors out there can play the Penguin?
by drewlicious
What about Tobey Jones? He certainly looks the part, he's not a house name but he's a very good actor (you probably loved him in the Mist). As long as we're on a Capote trip I wouldn't dismiss Phillip Seymour Hoffman since he's been suggested so many times. Here's another one: Eddie Izzard (just use some extra padding).
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still havent seen the movie.
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Excellent movie. Much better than I imagined, and Little Miss Sunshine was not annoying at all. Check it out!
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I wanted him as Rorschach and nearly got it (check out the threads over at Superhero Hype) but then things changed, Doug did something else, and we got a different guy who works just as well.
However, I dig Hutchison's work, and I think he'd be an awesome Riddler as I described: A serial killer who just wants to put his intellect and cleverness on display for all of Gotham, because in his private life he's been picked on and belittled by his peers.
He would not have a confrontation with Batman until later in the movie. In the first confrontation, he'd run, leaving behind a devious trap to keep Batman busy (two people tied up and trapped, with a riddle to solve to free them. The riddle has three possible answers. One kills victim A but frees victim B. The other does the reverse. The third answer frees them both but takes more time.)
In their final confrontation, the Riddler proves to be weak in the face of the Batman's might, but he hides in a place filled with puzzles and traps. Deadly ones. None of this giant hourglass crap. His traps resemble the kind made by Jigsaw, but always with a solvable puzzle or riddle attached to them.
In the end, he proves to be capable with his sword-cane by stabbing Batman in the side before being subdued. As Batman watches the Riddler being taken away to Arkham, he realizes the sword-cane has been poisoned by a unique combination of toxins and venoms, causing crippling pain as it works through his system. The only way to save himself is to solve one last riddle leading to the antidote, but in doing so, he is tricked into triggering some dire event (explosion, escape of some prisoners, destruction of something belonging to Bruce Wayne, etc.)
The movie ends with Batman seething at being tricked into doing the Riddler's dirty work, Gotham police blaming it on Batman, and the Riddler sitting in the wagon headed for Arkham laughing maniacally at how clever he thinks he is. -
The murders for one. I have posted about how ridiculous it is for Batman to assume responsibility for the murders. Cosnider: If there are eyewitnesses to the murders, they could see that it was not a man in a cape and cowl who did it. If there were no eyewitnesses, then why did Batman need to assume responsiblity at all? No one would know who did it. And unsolved murders in a city the size of Gotahm happen all the time. It was unnecessary to assume responsibility. Dent was not being charged, they covered him up. And he must be alive, and in the third movie as well, for them to do it. If he were dead, then no need to associate him with the murders. Just blame it on Joker, or leave them unsolved. During the chase scene, the police cars failed to see the truck burning, but that just aint possible when they had helicopter coverage that would have picked that up in an instant. The Harvey Dent transformation -no I do not buy the 'he just snapped'. People can snap, but it generally is in a direction they would go if they had no restraint - hence the snapping. Dent was not a homicidal maniac. I know the scene where he dragged a thug underground and was stopped by Batman was put in to justify his later behavior, but it just did not ring true. Whether it was the writing or the acting, I am not certain. I just did not buy it. Batman leaving joker alone in room full of people and no resolution - after saving Maggie. Gordon faking his death(which I did not beleive anyway) - for what reason? He could have moved his family out of the city. The Joker being able to blow up an entire hospital, any idea how much explosives that would take? Then strolling casually out of it. At the very least, it would have been cordoned off and police would have been around. Not too mention helicopters from news orgs etc etc. He could not have just walked away. Those are just off the top of my head. I only saw it once I am sure ther are others. But all that being said, I enjoyed the movie. It was a very good action flick. A very good superhero flick. And should be enjoyed as such, plot holes or no.
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Fuck yeah!
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You'll see ,when the chips are down these Talkbackers will start turning on each other HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Anything with your stamp of approval earns my bucks. Haven't been to a movie since IM, so I have some catching up to do (I do wanna see Wanted) ...
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I'm sure somebody might come up with a bootleg, but I think I would skip it. I would wait to see it on the big screen or wait until it comes out on Blu Ray. Then I can watch it on my home set up where I can rewind it to my hearts content and enjoy it.
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Jul 21, 2008 4:19:23 PM CDT
OH WAIT, I DID SEE INDY 4 ... MUST'VE BLOCKED THAT OUT
by bringingsexyback
of my memory. And rightfully so, some might say.
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I will get really bashed for this but I do not think this movie was as good as everybody thinks it is. I think people are afraid to say they didnt like the movie because heath died.
Example of why i didnt like the movie. The part where harvey becomes two face. batman grunts and yells at the jocker the jocker tells batman what he did batman goes what did you do then rides off.
Come on . I feel they did not deal with Batman himself enough. I also feel (omg start the flames) that the way heath played joker could have been played by anybody.
This movie is more of the writers work then the actors but istill feel people only are thinking this movie is good because one of the actors died.
I honestly think that Iron Man was a better movie.
This one didnt deal with batman enough and should have kept harvey dent out of it and I also feel the joker should have been a little more playful. He did not live up to his name "THE JOKER". -
Good to see alla y'alls!
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I don't know how anyone could call this film "nihilistic." Some awful, AWFUL shit happens to a lot of good people, but Batman still stands up to everything that's thrown at him, and assumes complete responsibility without hesitation...he continues to fight the good fight, even at the very end of the film when it's about to become the loneliest battle of his life. A friend of mine said she walked out of the movie depressed and thinking, "What's the point of life?" I don't get that. The ending was tragic, and Moriarty was right when he said it's harder than ever to be Batman by the time the credits roll, but, God damn, I walked out of that theater thinking that's exactly WHY Batman is such a hero. It's all in Alfred's speech: ENDURE. Be the outcast. Make the choice no one else must face. And Batman does make the choice, without even hesitating - to me, that was truly inspiring. Batman is the ultimate comic book hero.
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Jul 21, 2008 4:21:34 PM CDT
BSB - have you told your wife about the sextuplet idea?
by toadkillerdog
I am sure she just loved that!
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I have to say the geek in me has rejoiced so far this summer. I loved loved loved TDK. Iron man was great to me as well. The Incredible Hulk was good, not great, but not an embarassment either. I feel the same way about Indy 4. Hancock was good, have yet to see Wanted or Hellboy 2, but I have to say so far it has been quite the summer for me in the cinema.
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Is Definantly Maybe the one with Ryan Reynolds telling his kid a story about her Mother? I have not seen that one yet but I did see Chaos Theory with Ryan Reynolds and I thought that was pretty good, actually I thought it was really damn good. Of course I tend to like odd ball small movies like Chaos Theory. Ryan Reynolds is a good actor. Yeah I went there, deal with it people.
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I am not interested. PWNED! OMG! LOL!
(Yeah, I know pwned is obnoxious, as is all texty internet speak, but I can't help it. I'm like a dog chasing cars in the dark. I don't know what I'm doing. I just do things.) -
The original concept of the Joker was the fact he was a homicidal maniac who thought life was a joke, his appearance earned him the moniker of "The Joker" not because he was a jester, or the clown prince of crime persona. No where in the original idea of the character was he meant to be "playful." I think Heath Ledger performed him brillantly and there was only one time in the whole movie where I thought about being Ledger so I don't think I'm blinded by his death. You have your own opinion of course but for what the Joker is supposed to be imo he did he perfectly.
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It really is fuckin' great. Yo gotta see it.
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the way you feel about Dark Knight is the way all of us Batman Begins lovers felt about that film and the way your sticking up for dark knight against people is the way we did to you when all you did was bash Batman Begins, it's just funny how now your defending Nolan instead of spewing your hate for him and dude you were like the one guy everyone knew just absolutely loved to talk shit on the Nolan franchise and now you've hopped on board, just a little curious my friend haha. And this film is obviously better then begins but the hate you had for that (and it wasn't just regular hate it was full on fuck this shit film and anyone who likes it hate) does not make it logical at all that you would love this movie. Anyways I just hope you know how much of a douchebag you were to all the fans of Begins and how wrong you were about Christopher Nolan and his Batman Franchise. :)
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What was he thinking of? I don't know what he was possibly hoping to achieve by doing so. Any ideas?
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"You have hope for humanity but you waste your time in TB ripping at fanboys and what they enjoy doing. Going to movies and talking about them. Well, if your time and voice is so valuable, run for office. Put your brass balls out there tough guy. Get on a ticket and stand up for humanity. Until then, leave the fanboys out of it." Hey Sherriff, guess what: I'm gonna confront the fanboys on this fascist-loving bullshit that they swallow whole without even really thinking about what they swallow. Before I run for office, I'll put my brass balls out there today by being the ONLY ONE on this entire thread of fucking sycophants who thinks The Dark Knight isn't all that, and in fact the only way it's a masterpiece is a fucking hypocritical masterpiece of shit and so spiritually rotten to the core that it makes "Se7en" look like "WALL-E." So deal with it, amigo. Try fucking THINKING about WHAT IS ACTUALLY IN the bullshit pop culture fast food you and all the other fanboys are shovelling into your brains on a daily basis. I watched The Dark Knight, and didn't know if I was going to make it out of the theater without someone attacking me because they'd had a nervous breakdown. And that's just what I think our high school kids who are going through puberty and getting medicated for anxiety and depression need to see. When your brothers and sisters start watching The Dark Knight and shooting up that many more of their fellow high schoolers because they've embraced the supposed anarchy and madness and pitiless hostility at the heart of our society because Christopher Nolan wants us to believe that it's really like that out there, go pat yourself on the back for not having said a single word of concern. Fucking hell, it's movies like The Dark Knight that make me want to move to a small desert island. Fuck its fear, fuck its helplessness, fuck its hate of humanity, FUCK THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Look, this is a geek site, and some people get overwhelmed with their passions for anything geek oriented. And sites like ths require the filter on hyperbole to be used. All that being said, I think it is great that people can be passionate about such things. It is harmless too, and can create some very funny Talkbacks!
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"Q: When is a body not a corpse?" (A: When it's not dead yet.)
"Q: What's Generally more FUN than a GENERAL?" (A: A FUNeral.)
"Q: There's a key in the next room. If you look for it and find the key, you will save Mr. Jenkins' life. If you look for it and don't find the key, you will save Mr. Jones' life. What could you possibly do to save both their lives?" (A: Don't look for the key.)
I would have a lot of fun coming up with Riddler puzzles... -
lets get somebody older to play him, like kevin spacey.
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Dude, weren't you already banned once this year? Ok, fine. "go there" if you want, but I've been on the unfortuante optical receiving line of such "Ryan Reynolds wonders" as Van Wannabe Wilder, Just Fucking Stupid Friends, and Blade 3: You'll Go For The Biel and I heartily disagree with you. I'm not saying he's Fred Savage bad or Freddie Prinze Jr. bad, but he's yet to prove he's anything better than Chris Kattan bad. Who wants Chris Kattan for Riddler in Batman 3: Die Batman Die??
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When I saw more then one goof claiming to have cried my hyperbole shield got set to maximum. A statement about crying during a superhero movie was a tad to fruity for my tastes, but I agree that hyperbole can lead to very funny TB.
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A: Stab them repeatedly.
(in this scenario, the victims are John and Mary Wall.) -
I've got a desert island you can have. when do you want to move in?
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I did not read the crying post, but I am damn near crying for laughing so hard that someone woud post that. I truly hope it was girl, a young girl at that! This movie was guaranteed to bring out the best and worst in fandom. Aye, shields at maximum!
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"When your brothers and sisters start watching The Dark Knight and shooting up that many more of their fellow high schoolers because they've embraced the supposed anarchy and madness and pitiless hostility at the heart of our society because Christopher Nolan wants us to believe that it's really like that out there, go pat yourself on the back for not having said a single word of concern." Haha, Nolan wants us to believe that the world is like that? Its a movie based on a COMIC BOOK. A guy who dresses up like a bat for gods sakes. Your a fucking loser. Maybe when you were growing up, you couldn't tell the difference between reality and fiction, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are idiots. If your kids, brothers, or sisters don't know the difference, then its your parents, and your fault. Don't blame every fucking problem on the world on television, movies, and video games. Just because I read Clockwork Orange, doesn't mean I'm going to go rape someone. Just because I watched Silence of the Lambs, doesn't make me think eating people is cool. You say you believe in humanity, but apparently you don't. You apparently believe that the mass populace are idiots that have no mind forthemselves.
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Jul 21, 2008 4:53:17 PM CDT
I got teary eyed during this film, Ledger gave the performance e
by brighteyes
and wha'ts wrong with fruitiness. I'm not gay but so what if people are? This site is so full of homophobic's. Like being gay is the ultimate insult?
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ledger performance was amazing, but given the writing of the character by nolan, i think depp is more than up to the task, yeah yeah bla bla how dare you replace ledger, fuck you, joker is too good a character to go to waste, i actually could bet that Depp would make it equal or better, the merit is of nolan for making the joker a psychopath
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Talk about missing the whole point of a movie, Joker's "test" at the end of the film proves that Nolan thinks exactly the opposite of what you're saying. According to Nolan even hardcore criminals are better humanbeings than you, fucktard.
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that's your opinion. See, I have a different one. I thought Reynolds elevated crappy material like Van Wilder, Blade 3(also a shout out to Biels ass, that helped) and Smoking Aces by his efforts. Where those movies great or ground breaking? no, but he was entertaining in them.Of course he couldn't save a shit pile like the Amityville Horror and I don't know what "Just Fucking Stupid Friends" is so I can't refute that. To each there own son.
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Dude, why so serious> I mean really. Calm the heck down. It is a movie. There have been seevreal movies that have delat with far, far more explosive themes and viloence, and aimed at teens. Natural Born Killers. American History X. Underdog. Just kidding about Natural Born Killers. Most people can differentiate between an entertainment and reality. And those that can not, would be pushed over the edge by anything. Chill dude. You are far from being alone inn ot liking the flick. That is fine. There are others on here that do not like it. No biggie. Just remember, It is only a movie.
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Isn't it obvious it's just Adam West in disguise?
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Dude don't even try, the guy cries about A) People saying its good on the boards.. in which he could just no read them. B) He's trying to make it out like there is way more meaning underneath it all. You can't change his mind, he thinks everyone on here is an ignorant fool who got picked on by jocks.
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The answer as to why so many homophobes is simple. A great number of talkbackers probably had their sexuality questioned in high school as they were getting wedgies. So now they lash out. Simple psychology. Let it go, people, let it go.
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So you no longer love Dr.Jack? Matt Fox will be crushed to hear that!
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Not sure of your age or gender, but generally speaking, grown men do not get teary eyed at an action flick. Maybe a movie like Brians Song, or say if Robin Williams was cast in the lead in the remake Conan - that would make a grown man cry, but generally not at an action flick.
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Very true. And I apologize for the typos. I am trying to work and type at the same time. Big no-no. Xi, take it easy man. I had better get back to work, no telling what mistakes I have made there!
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You can see alot of him in Ledger's performance. From the camp costume, to the laugh, the laid backness mixed with borderline rage, even in certain scenes *the interrogation room an example*, his little facial ticks and mannerisms, it really is a dark homage Jack. He even sounds like him in scenes, his laugh is just like Lemmons in 'some like it hot'
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Read my post on the Tobey maguire TB
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When did I say otherwise? I'm 20 years guy who was a Batman fan for as long as I can remember. saw all in theaters except 1 and he is my favorite super hero and this film was so superb that I found it profound, though Ledger is the main reason I teared up, he was one of my favorite actors and just seeing him in this film was a bittersweet goodbye. And check out my music at myspace.com/waityourturnhl you can see me there. that is me and fuck you all! Just kidding though about 3 of you I'm not kiddint fuck off.
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I'm surprised nobody has brought up the similarity in look between Joker and Kakihara. You know, with the slit mouth and everything. They kind of go out on a similar note too. At the end of Ichi the Killer, Kakihara takes a plunge of a building and laughs himself silly all the way down. He dies though, no Batman to save his ass.
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@ ebonic_plague and santi01: yes I recognized Batmanuel right away, and yes he has a fixation with eye-liner.
Hey, and did they actually spoke to each other? I mean Bruce and the Mayor? my mind was doing the happy dance when I spot Batmanuel, hee. -
With a 12 pack and a hot young latina chica all grinding on my batpole and calling my "papi" or however you spell it.
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Nolan's movie did not show mankind as pitiless or evil. It showed the Joker for who he was, who Batman said he was, just a lonely psycho. Ledger's Joker was the ultimate terrorist, someone whose only want was to see humanity destroyed. The movie was about how people react to such horror. And humanity won out. The Joker didn't want to destroy society. He wanted society to destroy itself, because it would justify his low opinion of people. But Nolan's movie proved that the Joker was wrong.
I'm sorry that the film had more depth and moral complexity than a fucking Tim Burton coloring book. I'm sorry that Jack was not in it prancing around in his purple pajamas. I'm sorry if the film fractured your pathetic, overly simplistic Leave it to Beaver worldview. But the problem is not Nolan's. It's yours.
After seeing it a second time, I just have to say that this film is a fucking masterpiece. And I'm not some comic book fanboy Batgeek. I've never read a comic book in my life, and I don't care for most comic book films. But this film was a work of art. And I'm not surprised that some people didn't get it. -
a hot young latina chica all grinding on my batpole and calling ME "papi" or however you spell it.
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She can pull off sexy/serious roles and it would give her a chance to equal the work she did in "Memento"...
I pretty much agree with A is for Aristocrat on everything.
I see a "serious" Riddler, played by Clive Owen, more in line of a Wealthy Capitalist/God Complex person--who enjoys lording over everyone with his intellectual superiority. The Joker was a maniac agent of chaos...The Riddler can be a "refined" elitist type. He would NOT care for chaos.
Bane has to be in Batman 3. Maybe as an enforcer, rather than a mastermind.
I only see The Penguin if Paul Giametti wanted the role and if the Penguin was more like a callingcard symbol--like "The Dove" in Bond "For Your Eyes Only"...I don't see a realistic Penguin in Nolan's world.. -
HAHAHAHAHA Gotcha! No but really this movie is AMAZING!!!!!! It is driving me a little crazy though cause I can't stop thinking about the fucking thing.....it has possessed my every thought!! It's hands down the best superhero movie ever made! I think it went a long way in proving that DC is way more serious than Marvel witch is why I've always favored DC (I fucking love Marvel too...I'm geeky that way)! I hope it at least gets a best picture nod and that Heath wins the best supporting oscar!
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I'm with you bra. This is getting pretty boring. Bring on some TF ROTF shit.
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Quit being a douchebag. None of your cinolit analysis either makes sense or is relevant to germane discourse regarding this film. Quit pissing on everyone's parade. TDK felt like a *release* from the oppression that living in the U.S. the past 7 years has actually been. You sound like a grad student who has nothing more than a pile of debt from USC and a thesis nobody cares about.
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Don't bring some scab in there to ruin the character. Heath did it perfectly. It's done.
As for part 3, I'd like to see the Knightfall storyline. Bane and Azrael could work very well within Nolan's universe. -
If your heart ain't in the US, get your ass out. No one will miss you.
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You know just because it's dark doesn't mean Chris Hansen won't find you. They have cameras with night vision.
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"Humanity won out"? I disagree. The Joker won. I wrote this previously above:
Clearly Joker was the victor of TDK. He achieved all his goals, tore Gotham to shreads, turned the White Knight (Dent) into a hideous, murdering monster, and forced Batman into exhile. He PWNED Batman, Gordon, Dent, the Gotham Crime Families, and Gotham itself.
Sure, the people on the Ferry didn't kill each other, but even that seemed to reveal more their cowardice to act than heroic nobility ('cept for "Zeus" who I reckon was supposed to be a guy who realizes he doesn't really have anything to live for anyway, so may as well take the choice out of their hands and let the fickle whim of fate decide). The ultimate goal wasn't to kill all those people, it was to tear everything down and force everyone to face the truth of chaos, which he achieved. He won. Hands down, the Joker won. He doesn't care if he gets caught, beaten, or killed. He just wants to watch the world burn while laughing in our faces.
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...Gordon says that Dent killed 6 people "two of them cops"(I think), and Batman takes the blame... who all did Two Face kill? For sure: the cop in the bar, and Moroni's driver. Maybe Moroni dies in the wreck, too, but Dent lived and he was in the same car. Who else did Two Face kill? Hell, he let half the people go based on the lucky coin toss. I wonder if this is something we'll see expanded on in the deleted scenes on the DVD.
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shut the hell up moron. Azrael didn't even work well in Batman's universe.
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so that would have made her...23 when she had you? Damn, I thought I might have had a good teen pregnancy/abortion joke to slip in there...
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the Joker totally achieved all his goals. He was the winner and he totally doesn't give a shit if he's captured killed or tortured. I love when he's falling off the building and laughing!!!
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There are clues he could be the riddler. Mysteries....wants money....clever enough to figure out who batman is. The main reason against him being the Riddler is that he is a relatively unknown actor. Thats alot of faith for Nolan to put into that casting. There is a much bigger problem though. Whether he is or isnt the Riddler, there is a guy floating around that went on the news telling everyone he knows who Batman is. If Batman is wanted wouldnt the police just pull him in? Even if he had a change in heart and lied to the police Im sure orginized crime wouldnt care. Also, that would mean Nolan has a long term plan for Batman 3 by setting this up and he said he put everything into this one.
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was kind of meta but I liked it!
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was kind of meta but I liked it!
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and thats the brilliance of this movie. The first superhero movie where the bad guy wins. Batman's love was murdered (even though see had moved on from him), his hope to turn his war over to Dent and lead a normal life was destroyed, he is wanted by the police, and he is cursed to fight the Joker forever. His only small hope for the future is that two boats of people didnt murder each other. The Joker's plan was the same one as in The Killing Joke. One bad day can turn anyone insane. In the comic the Joker failed. In the movie the Joker won.
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Jul 21, 2008 6:24:57 PM CDT
USC, I'm going to give you a 30 second lesson in Aesthetics 101
by fluffyunbound
Anyone who confuses the moral content of a work with its artistic quality is a rube. A hick. A person of the land. You know - a moron. In order for THE DARK KNIGHT to be harmful in the way you argue it is, it would have to be great art. Because if it wasn't, no one would pay any attention to it. Anyone who says - about any work, really - "But what about the children?" is a philistine. OK, depending on your reading speed that might have been more than 30 seconds but you get the idea.
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What are you guys talking about? He showed earlier in the movie when he was rather sadistically interrogating that one guy that he was pedisposed to anti-social behavior. He was never a white knight, he was just made out to be that way. When he became hideously scarred and the love of his life was murdered, it unlocked a psychosis that was there all along.
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When Bruce was talking about the extraction of Lu, it was mentioned that he was getting into Hong Kong via a high altitude sky dive, they even showed the oxygen apparatus that was going to be used for the jump. But no fucking jump. (Just a nitpick)
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You have to assess where the film has taken the character to now and what makes sense as the next challenge for the Batman and friends to overcome. He's already "Begun" and become the "Dark Knight". What villain would present the best foil for Batman's progress as a crimefighter/whatever he has become post-Joker? I'm asking b/c I'm one of 20 people on AICN who actually hasn't seen TDK yet.
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Yeah, you're right, let's just go with your idea to just repeat this movie again in part three. One of the things people seem to not realize when they suggest recasting the Joker is that IT WILL NOT BE THE SAME! PERIOD. Every actor plays a character differently. What made Ledger's Joker so great is not just the script but Ledger's performance of that script. Your idea to bring back both Two Face and The Joker in part three and having them compete to annoy him (Reminds me of Batman Forever, actually) is stupid.
Azrael would be the best way for the story to go. They've already established it with the end of the movie with Batman being an outlaw. Introduce another vigilante who the public does accept but is a frothing fucking nutjob. Bane comes into town. Fucks up Bruce. Azrael takes the Batman mantle and then kills Bane. Bruce realizes that he has to be Batman for the rest of his life, not just to protect the people of Gotham, but to finally realize that he does, indeed, stand for something. Batman vs. Batman for the end of the trilogy. Works perfectly, and you can keep Nightwing out of it and still have the same impact as the original story. -
All that gene splicing shit with his origin.
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One of your best.
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Jul 21, 2008 7:11:15 PM CDT
Batman vs. the Inflation of the Dollar. Atleast we know dmohrUSC
by wickedjester
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get over this love affair with Ledger's Joker and realize how disapointing this movie was. It makes me sad that what was built up in Begins was completey bumbled and was a total mess. If you where the captain of a ferry boat and you have a boat full of convicts and you get a detonator to blow up another ferry, would take the detonator down and stand right in the middle of them so they could just grab it and blow up the other boat, or would you go on deck and yell over to the other ferry that was about 200 yards away, "hey dont blow us up". Another thing, as smart as the Joker was to get all these explosives magicaly all over the city, you think he would know that you dont have to have your face in front of the camera everytime you turn it off, was kinda cool the first hostage video but twice...boooo! In Begins didnt Raz teach Bats to fight 400 men at a time, guess he should have taught him to fight three dogs and a skinny creep with a pipe, because he had a hard time with that. Then this highly trained ninja badass could'nt get up cause he had all of Jokers 170lbs. holding him down. Oh and when swat comes in dont yell out that the clowns are the victims, just start punching the cops and breaking their bones thats much easier. One of my favorite sceens is when the accounting dude goes in to blackmail Fox, he's says he has proof that Wayne industries is helping Batman in wants 10 mil. a year, to which Fox replies something like "Your employer is a billionaire you pummels people with his fist every night..blah..blah..blah", wow Mr. Fox thanks for saying exactly who batman was, mr. 10 mil. a year had just said that he found out that wayne industries was helping Batman not that he knew who Bats was. Well you get my point, sloppy plot, bad editing, mayors who wear eyeliner, gravely voices, Gordon's pointless fake death, a bomb that goes off in a guys stomach that knocks out everyone in the police station except the Joker,cops who cant drive around a burning firetruck even though there is room, Batman not being able to ride the Bat-pod without falling off and knocking himself out, and then Bruce not really caring too much that the love of his life is dead and Harvey who she had known for what a year maybe, went completey fucking nuts. I just cannot understand why people are going to let Nolan get away with this, 94% on rotten tomatoes and Harry going apeshit over it....sad. Maybe in the next one Nolan can get some neon and we can relive the 90's over again.
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You're assuming a lot. I feel silly arguing with a guy who calls himself Dickblood, but here goes. I never said I didn't question the government. Yes I am a patriot, and no, I'm not a dumb fucking sheep. I draw the line at pisspants foreign cocksuckers coming here and bitching about how much it sucks. They should GO THE FUCK HOME if it sucks so bad here. Stands to reason, doesn't it?
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Wow, you really searched for problems with the movie...I'd say to remember it is still based on a comic and fiction, but what's the point.
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Wow, you really searched for problems with the movie...I'd say to remember it is still based on a comic and fiction, but what's the point.
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focused more on the HORROR. Let's get dirty and grimy...lets have Croc and ManBat, yeah whatever i LOVE Manbat. Or just one of them....But lets have a scary ass Batman movie. Dark and in the sewers. Lets have some monster fun.
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is the episode in the Batman Anime that just came out...There's a sweet Croc/Scarecrow short....sahweeeeeeet
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Greatest year for comic book movies ever !!!!!
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Heath Ledger's Joker was a very good performance, but it wasn't the best performance in the film. That would be Gary Oldman.
Ledger's is a high energy performance that reminds me of Malcolm McDowell in A Clockwork Orange, Johnny Depp in Pirates..., and Day-Lewis in There Will Be Blood. We are a bit biased because of his unfortunate death. He was impressive, but these are the types of performances that easily impress people. The script was made for a meaty Joker role, and Ledger palyed the heck out of it unquestionably. But Oldman managed to do something just as interesting if not more so in his portrayal of Gordon. I think Ledger did a good job, but in my book, playing a one dimensional super-id character is a lot easier than playing a multi-dimensional type character like Oldman as Gordon or even Aaron Echkhart did with Two-Face.
But bottom line, these were all good because of the direction and writing. -
How is it the movie of the year didn't get one?
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Introducing another villain at this point is bound to disappoint because Ledger's portrayal was so iconic. The Joker is, without a doubt, the most infamous superhero villain and one of the most recognizable bad guys of all time. Anything after TDK is going to fail to live up our expectations. Why not age Batman however many years he'd aged in Miller's comic, which would allow for a semi-sensible recasting of the Joker? You could age Bale with makeup and cast Day-Lewis as an older, just as psychotic Joker who comes back to "do this forever" after alcoholic Bruce is lured out of retirement. Only way I could see recasting the Joker working, and Day-Lewis is the only actor around I'd trust to make me believe it.
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The reason it made 155.3 million opening weekend and got a 94% rating on Rotten Tomatoes is for one simple reason. It's a great movie. It entertained people, Good acting, good directing, great script, but let me guess you thought Batman and Robin was great right? You haters kill me. You don't like the movie fine, but my sweet lord it's not a personal assault on your life that it didn't work out the way you thought it should. Go back to writing your fan fiction and playing that horrendous xbox game that came out a few years back. I'm sure that'll make you happy while your wearing your Robin suit and looking at your George Clooney poster and screaming "Holy Box Office Batman!" Pathetic truly pathetic.
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goddamit, thats the best batman storyline i've ever read, too long to fit properly on a single movie, also it requires robin and nightwing
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I've always thought you were a right thinking fellow and now you've given me more proof. A twelve pack and a Latina it will be!
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If there is a number 3 then at least some of it might have to be concerened with rebuilding not only Gotham and it's police and justice departments but Wayne manor and eventually Batmans reputation to some extent.
What we DO know is that the one theme was set up in everyones face at the end, and that is the hunting of Batman.
Bruce Wayne doesn't seem to be an outcast but Batman most definitely is and which villain(s) will best tie up with that theme I frankly have no idea yet.
I had a suspicion that before Ledgers tragic death there may have been some attempt to delve into the Jokers new backstory in the third film while emphasising how simlar the two were as Batman becomes an outcast freak in the eyes of Gotham.
Lots of nice ideas floating about this thread but the problem is that the jump in quality from Begins to Dark Knight is pronounced it's hard to imagine a third film maintaing Knights quality never mind surpassing it.
But you just never know, I for one wouldn't have guessed something of the Dark Knight quality after Begins.(which I DO like but it's not in the same league as TDK)
P.S. I don't need Tim Burtons Gothic Gotham but it perhaps went a little TOO far in the opposite "everycity" direction this time. Some more obvious Gotham Landmarks are required than just Arkham.(which should also be a big feature in film 3)
P.P.S. Proof the Joker IS mad ? He enjoys Gasoline but thinks it is CHEAP !!! Crrrraaaaaaazzzzyyy MOFO ! -
His criticisms are weak and reveal an overall lack of understanding.
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He's only the telling the truth!
Dark Knight sucked ...
Empire Strikes Back sucked ...
Aliens sucked ...
um
Oh yeah, and Shawshank Redemption, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Citizen Kane, Fight Club ...
Sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked.
Hey, someone's gotta go against the grain! You go MJM! -
Really can't get over of the similarities between Die Hard with A Vengeance and The Dark Knight. Talked to some guy at work too and he brought it up first, so I know I can't be the only one. Also I still say Gary Oldman gave the best performence, mainly because Aaron Eckhart isn't a good actor and was not that convincing as Two Face. Plus Gary Oldman is always the crazy one and just imagine him as The Joker? I think its amazing that he had to play the one restrained character and he did a great job.
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As much as i would love to have the joker in the next one, it can't be done. Sorry, it cant Ledger's joker will stand supreme, and another joker would be insulting. but hey! there are a million villians that are realistic enough to be explored by Nolan's team of amazingness. The Riddler has been mentioned several times, and most people assume that Anthony Micheal Hall (Who has a very minor role in TDK, and the GCN news anchor Mike Engle) would be the Riddler. I thknk this is alluded to when the joker makes Engel read off a riddle to gotham about "the game". They could allude to the joker, or show the back of some dude dressed like ledger's Joker with no dialogue. also, we dont really know for sure if two-face is dead. or maroni for that matter. i heard Penguin and catwoman are allued to, but i dont think that Nolan should go for some of the more campy-esque characters. I mean, if he does that, just bring back Ahnold for Mr. Freeze and have some monster-looking guy be killer-croc. Nolan's Riddler could be really good. but nolan is going to have to make the movie of all-time to beat TDK now that the bar is set so much higher. it almost makes me think that he shouldn't make another one. another "return of the Jedi" another "Godfather III" but, i want my perfect trilogy. then, he can stop. end it on a high note. I Believe in Chris Nolan. Down with the haters!
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now over the talkback form
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over at DK imdb board, seems he's kicked it.
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I call hoax. Or at least I hope...
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The Joker's main goal in the movie was nihilism; more specifically, to cause society to destroy itself. His coup de grace was the ferry incident. But when push came to shove, society maintained its humanity. This was a SERIOUS rebuke to his worldview and operandi. FAIL!
Yes, he tried to ruin Harvey Dent, and in a personal sense, he did. But in the mind of the public, Harvey Dent remains an inspirational figure, and a potent force for order and decency. FAIL!
In the end of the movie, the Joker is taken back into police custody. FAIL!
Of course, the good guys took their losses too: Rachel died. Harvey was mutilated and died. Gordon and his family went through a hostage drama that will take years of therapy to untangle. Batman is now a most-wanted fugitive. The entire city of Gotham went through a horrible ordeal.
But once the movie is over, what is the status of crime in Gotham? Not only is the Joker behind bars, but all the crime families have been dealt swift and heavy blows with their leaders out of commission. Even the Scarecrow is back behind bars. I'd say it's 85% safer to walk the street at the end of the movie than it was at the beginning.
So although the good guys took heavy losses -- losses that, if they were presented as an option from the beginning, would be deemed unacceptable -- in terms of net result, the good guys didn't really do too bad in the end. -
chill, my criticisms arent weak, watch the movie again and try not to notice them. And a lack of understanding, yea I dont understand why they could'nt have written a better script. Oh and Batman being beaten up by dogs, that still cracks me up.
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to that one little boy who said I liked Batman and Robin. Please dont bring up that trash. I'm just saying that I loved Begins and the kind of realism and brought to Batman, and they kinda screwed it up in TDK.
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Nolan can pull it off.
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I thought that Gordon said all the convictions were now pretty much history and the Mob would be back on the street ?
Joker in custody will never last long as Batman himself admits.
Batman is now a hunted murderer.
There is no-one to take Dent's place as D.A. and G.P.D. only lost a couple of corrupt officers, it wasn't "purged".
BTW is it only me who thinks there's something very odd about the Mayor ? Yes he's Richard Alpert in Lost but even so as Gothams Mayor there seemed to be perhaps more going on than we yet know and it wouldn't surprise me if Nolan had a plan for Gothams Mayor in the future. -
...that you criticize the screenplay yet are unable to construct a coherent sentence.
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Jul 22, 2008 1:08:53 AM CDT
I was thrilled to see (and actually notice at the time)
by juggernaut125
Keith Szarabajka as the cop in Joker's interrogation room. I said to myself, so as not to disturb the rest of the audience, "Hey! That's Holtz from 'Angel'!" It was one of my favorite Joker moments too. "How many of your friends have I killed, anyway?"
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I was going to stay off this board; too many trolls and attention starved whackos just taking the piss for the "fun of it" (some "fun", sheesh), for me to mess with. But, Johnny Depp not a good actor? Are YOU taking the piss? Have you seen "Ed Wood"? "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas"? "Finding Neverland"? If so, and you're not just "taking the piss" I have serious trouble fathoming where you're coming from when you say: "He's a 'star'. I'm always amazed when he's mentioned as a 'great actor'." Do you see many films? Do you just not "like" Depp for some reason?
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I can kind of see some of MJM's points. He's nitpicking and all. But I'll have to say I'm usually one to poo poo over big hype moives, but I feel that this is one of the few movies that lived up to the hype. Just the pre hype, not the hype thats happened after its release where people are beside themselves about how good it was. It was a very solid movie with great acting, and Oldman did a better job then Heath...but Oldman is still alive. Thats why there are so few nay saying it, it didn't Episode 1 us. Plus I just don't buy the fact that people were so damn eager for this, like right after the first one. The first one was a very solid stand alone movie, as this is. The first one wasn't all origins story like Ironman or Spiderman. Plus in a year like this where very few movies have let down, its just such a bonus that this one really lived up to the hype.
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What a retarded complaint. We already had a great "fun" Batman movie just this summer. It was called Iron Man.
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holy smokes batman!!!
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I keep coming back until someone REMEMBERS seeing Richie!
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TDK ruined the realism of BB? Please. Because we all know a centuries old organization of ninjas who uses a microwave gun to spread a fear toxin is soooo much more realistic than a psycho with a theme who wants to cause chaos and terror. Yea that realism that BB set was ruined by that. Idiot. Go back to the sandbox and play with the rest of the children. You're worse than moviemack ever was.
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Jul 22, 2008 7:20:10 AM CDT
Feels like 2008 is the beginning of a new era for superheroes.
by jdanielp
Hollywood is finally getting it. And I'm thankful for aintitcool.com and such, for places where fans can have their say (wrong or right). Personally, I feel that "THE DARK KNIGHT" raises the bar (for this genre) incredibly high. Superhero flicks don't require the style of a stage production, as they can feel as real & life-like as Hollywood can make them. And even though I still crave a favorite visual element of Batman, being that Marshall Rogers and/or Neal Adams style of subtle exaggeration, I have great love for Nolan's more plausible, near-realistic approach. To inject this story and acting and Nolan's style into an Anton Furst/Tim Burton visualization would be a disservice. Maybe.
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...holy hell this was one seriously good movie. Someone above asked the question: does the Joker win? In Rickey's opinion, no. No in the fact that he doesn't turn Batman into a reviled villain (Batman makes the decision himself) No in the fact that he's wrong about Gotham's populace turning on each other. And no in the fact that the public doesn't learn about Harvey Dent. At least, not yet.... Terrific flick over all: dark, moody and scary as all hell. Read Rickey's write up on TDK hither:
http://tiny.cc/aLghj -
I have to agree with geekhater. Your being nitpicky. Plus I think the entire dog thing showed how Batman is. He could have just snapped their neck and been done with it... but thats not Batman. Your points... while SOMEWHAT points are just super anal. Even though its a more realistic Batman, its still Batman. Its still a movie. Its still based on a comic book. If you didn't like the movie because of its unrealistic things then.. I guess you don't like 90% of action movies. If you think it was a horrible plot, thats fine, I don't what to you constitutes a great plot but OK. Oh and the mayor isn't wearing eyeliner.. watch Lost he looks like that all the time.
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that's classic stuff--getting teary-eyed before you pop via fellatio. I suspect many Changians are like that.
As for the Gotham mayor, I don't know the actor's name, nor do I watch lost, but yeah he was distractingly metrosexual with those eyelashes. I was surprised he and Harvey Dent, with his chiseled good looks and chin cleft, didn't start making out -
I don't think it's true. If it is, the world has lost the star of one of the greatest motion pictures ever: Jaws The Revenge.
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http://tinyurl.com/5lk9ul
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At least he wasn't as of 8.50AM UK time when he was interviewed by the BBC. He might be now though.
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not surprising after some of his roles and dramatic physical changes over the years.
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flaming leg kick, etc.
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That's how shit and gay he is.
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That doesn't sound good. Then again, he was a child star, and in all disputes between mothers and child stars I wait until I see the E! True Hollywood story before deciding who was right and who was wrong.
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hes batman, and he might be behind you.. !
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It should have been "Paddington Bear < American Idol"
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With Ledger dead and with Bale going nuts, people would start talking about "The Curse of the Dark Knight". If there's a curse, our first priority must be "Save Morgan Freeman!"
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his pr will have to swing into "troubled actor" mode - gary oldman style. not smiling nice actor. troubled soul.
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Jul 22, 2008 8:52:42 AM CDT
And anybody who calls this movie 'hopeless' or 'nihilistic'
by the octagoner
doesn't know what the words mean.The Joker didn't win at all, he just got some good shots in.You're a fucking pussy if a movie about Batman made you full of fear and hopelessness. Period.
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Because Mr. Mom was never accussed of assaulting anyone.
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They came back… …for a ruby the size of a tangerine!
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Nipple suit in hand.
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Seems very convenient. Someone who you've never heard anything bad about gets accused for something right after the biggest movie he's ever done comes out? Yeah... lets see what comes out about this. Seems very fishy to me.
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But I'm afraid that it will.
Now people won't go so as to not support a "woman beater."
I wouldn't be surprised if NOW didn't go out and protest movie theatres.
Anyone who hits his mother and his sister is a loser.
Anyone who potentially kills the runaway movie of the Summer is a moron.
If the charges are true, he's a total jackass.
Even if they're not true, the movie will most likely now suffer. -
I saw the film last night here in the UK and I have to say that while it was a worthy successor to Batman Begins, Begins was the better film. More satisfying narratively with the focus more on Batman.
Dark Knight, was about 30 minutes too long, had a slew of pointless subplots (the asshole blackmailing Wayne Industries & Lucius Fox, the Batman impersonators, the crime lords that once put away just kept reoccuring so that Ledgers Joker had someone to talk to and occasionally threaten)
Ledgers performance deserves a lot of praise, for sure, but this call for some kind of posthumous Oscar is frankly stupid fanboy wish fulfilment and gets to the heart of the problem of the film for me. Which is one of over indulgence to fit more of The Joker in. When he shows its great, but there were moments when its easy to see that had Ledger still been alive sequences would have been trimmed for pacing.
And to be honest, the film suffers from being a "middle act" with no real start or full on conclusion with the way its left, which gives it a Two Towers vibe on a story level. Additionally, going back to the over indulgence with the running time, I felt that the film had a natural conclusion / set up for a sequel when The Joker released Dent and then blew up the Hospital he was in. Which would have allowed for a similar format to this film, with the opening 30 minutes involving the wrap up of the Joker and allowing Dent to become the lead villain of the piece, rather than a hastily tacked on confrontation in this film.
Thats not to say that I hated the film, though some might read that in to it, I didn't hate it I enjoyed it for what it was warts and all, but what I don't believe is this universal IMDB 10 out of 10 masterpiece bullshit thrown around. Because in the end the hype and hyperbole combined with Ledgers tragic death has IMHO created a perfect storm of self perpetuating Fan frothing, which it seriously doesn't deserve....
Its a good film, sure, perhaps even a great one when seen in context with the inevitable third part, but right now as it stands it simply isn't the "Masterpiece" that its being touted as. Something I think that with time, will be realised when the dust settles.... -
http://tinyurl.com/6zyrwm
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http://tinyurl.com/6zyrwm
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"I'm gonna keep comin' back until somebody remembers sumthin'"
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Good flick. You all are right, that cut from the rachel dawes rescue to the next day is a little jarring, but not that much. DH3 vibe? Yeah, but just a little when Gordon is deploying the troops. Joker fumbling with detonator in puzzlement waiting for the rest of the hospital to blow up was definitely one of the high points in the film. Audience was pretty restrained though, barely a peep during the whole film (except the couple next to me..when he sticks the smoker in Fichtner's mouth, "dammmmmnnnn, they gonna blow him up"). Almost full house for a 1030 show on a Monday which aint too shabby. Best film of the summer for me is still Indy 4, warts and all, but thats just a personal preference, I wish Bats all the success in the world.
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TDK is art. It helps that it is a remarkably good film. That said, the message of good vs. evil, the issues of moral choices and sacrifice are merely that--messages in a movie. I don't think Nolan intended to hold a mirror up to society and suggest that things have gotten SO bad. The grim Gotham depicted in TDK is an exaggeration of the status quo in American, to be sure, but still an exaggeration--not a true reflection. It helps to keep in mind the words of that old song (sing it with me now) "There's good and bad, in everyone. If we learn to live, learn to give each other what we need to survive, together alive..."
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do you suppose he first yelled at them with the bat-voice-affectator that makes him talk like Clint Eastwood?
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I doubt its going to effect the movie that much man.... first of all domestic cases are never as cut and dry as what you say. Plus... if something is a good movie, its a good movie. I think most of the public won't give a damn.
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I doubt it'll hurt the movie that much. Besides bad press isn't always harmful. Take R Kelly for example, his albums sold millions of copies and he shown on video pissing on a pre-teen. -
Bale's mom teased Christian, stating: "I'm not a monster, son. I'm just ahead of the curve. And this is what happens when an unstoppable force comes up against an immovable object."
And his sister added: "That's right Christian. We're just a couple of dogs chasing cars, really. We wouldn't know what to do with them if we caught them. Time to introduce a little anarchy." -
After the assault, Christian's mom said, "No! Not the head! Never start with the head! It leaves the victim too fuzzy!"
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dang I guess something did go down, its all over the media now. Probably just a little pushy-shovy match thats getting overblown because of the publicity around the film.
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http://tinyurl.com/5aoq36
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I disagree with those who are down on the Riddler as a possible villain for the third Nolan/Batman movie. Yes, the character is not as compelling as the Joker, but what villain is? The Riddler could be given the Nolan treatment and transformed into a calculating sociopath who is a technical genius. I would suggest Jude Law. Look at his performance as the sick killer in ROAD TO PERDITION. He plays a psychopath, but not a ranting, raving maniac. Rather, he plays a cold, scary, soulless murderer who goes about his business quietly, with an eerie machine-like precision. I think this take might work well for the Riddler. He is sociopathic, like the Joker, but is a quieter, colder controlled type, as opposed to the more vocal and chaotic Joker. The Riddler could be a narccissistic super-genius who is compelled to demonstrate his technical brilliance to the world by tormenting the citizens of Gotham with complex death-traps in the form of puzzles. I think the character could work in Nolan's Bat-universe. Also, I don't see any reason why there can't be more than one villain. I am not in the camp of people who think that the Joker can not (or should not) be re-cast. Yes, Heath Ledger was brilliant. Still, there are actors who could do justice to his performance and play the Joker in the next movie (jailed in Arkham or otherwise). I would suggest Joaquin Phoenix. He has a similar physicality to Ledger, I think, and has the acting ability to play the Joker well. I would like it if the third movie had Gotham exploding with hordes of minor villains and their gangs. Batman could still be hunted and hated by the establishment, until the chaos got so bad that no one but Batman is able to stop it. I like the idea of escalation, and I hope that Nolan takes it further with the thrid film, with more freakish villains, and with Batman getting tougher and tougher, as well as more technically saavy (I liked the idea of Batman developing a city-wide surveillance system, even though the visual execution of it was a little confusing). I want to see Batman becoming more technically developed and more relentless on fighting crime, just as more and more criminals are putting on masks and using weird disguises, since many criminals want to get street cred by imitating the Joker and proving they are on Batman's level. In Gotham, it seems to my that after a certain point many criminals would want to use gimmicks, masks, and code-names to differentiate themsleves from the pack. So, a third film might be about Batman as an outcast, an explosion of freaks and masked villians with gimmicks, Batman responding to the new villains, and maybe, in the end, the villains turn (again) to the one bad guy who seems able to take on Batman--the Joker. If the Joker is in Arkham, it might make sense that his criminal imitators would try to spring the clown. The third act could be a showdown pitting the villains led by the Joker against the lone Batman. A victory by Batman might put him in better stead with the cops, the media, and the public. Batman Triumphant.
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someone complains that a point in the film is pointless because they don't understand it and haven't put any thought into it. Almost as good as the casting the next one as a Burton film.
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Check this out -- this wasn't even written by me, I read it on a different forum: "Total piece of propaganda. It spoiled the movie for me. I like to go to the movies to escape, the last thing I want to be reminded of is that my phones are being tapped by my gov’t. And of course, the Joker is now a ‘terrorist’, and torture is the only way to save Gotham. The whole movie was really a ‘not so subtle’ endorsement of Bush’s abuses of authority. Why don’t they leave the political bs out of these movies, and just focus on entertainment? The movie stands as a propanganda film, and I resent being duped."
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You're a fucking douchebag and you're not helping our cause.
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I get the feeling it happens often.
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You guys are nitpicking all the wrong things. Here’s a few things I want to clear up/add instead.
1. what happened to joker at the penthouse you asked? You’re kidding, right? Did you not see how joker hide behind one of his goons soon as batman entered the room? That says loudly that he would scram soon as batman jumped off the balcony. He could hijack the heli bruce flew in with, he could use the zipline used for the bank job, he could have other plans… I mean, the guy’s no idiot, he would have anticipated batman’s interruption and plan an exit strategy accordingly. There’s no need to see him exiting. All the information you need is there. Add them up, or use your imagination.
2. one cool thing you guys seem to miss: bruce said to fox, “type in your name after you’re done.” as in, ‘write me your resignation letter after you’re done.’ But then, fox took bruce’s words literally, and he typed his name on the screen. Turned out that was the password to destroy the computer. Fox smiled. and you can bet your ass he’s not resigning. That was cool. But then I got to thinking, hey… the machine was invented long before that, before he knew he would need it to catch the joker. so what does that say about batman? I mean he did plan to spy in on the entire population.
3. the shooting the bricks scene. What was that all about? He needed to get fingerprints off the bullet, correct? Someone please explain to me how shooting the bricks would help.
4.two-face’s burnt suit. I know the studio needs to sell toys, but really… I can take the sonar, I can take the cop standing next to joker not recognizing him at the gun salute, I can take the bat falling from his penthouse straight down and not be dead… but when I see two-face wore back his burnt suit that really took me out of the movie. what the fuck does that thing do in nolan’s movie???? Harvey was a fully fleshed out REALISTIC character, until he was forced to don that ‘costume’ to make him look like a comic book supervillain! The guy lost him love, lost half his face, got revenge on his mind… what’s his motivation to go look for his burnt suit, let alone wearing it back on???
5.bat fell straight down from his penthouse, and not be dead. He could easily have used his grappling hook to swing away, but no. what is Nolan trying to prove here? That the new batsuit is death proof? But then you remember he fell off his bike later on and he could not get up to save his ass before Gordon returned from the dead.
6.people keep referring to the harvey's alley interrogation scene as exhibit A of harvey's darker side. But then you're shown his coin has two same sides. It was a trick. he was never going to kill the goon. So no, the white knight has always been white before he got his face burnt.
7. just one short scene of two-face seeing himself in the mirror for the first time, and him reacting to it, would reaaaaallly go a long way to help make the turn a tad more beliavable.
8. why o why would two-face go after Gordon??? Does. Not. Make. A. lick. Of. Sense. He should go after batman for saving him when he was ready to die to save his love. Much much more poignant. Two-face, joker, and batman would then faceoff on top of the highrise. It’d make for a much much stronger climax. And when two-face falls from that height, instead of a 3 story warehouse, none of you would be speculating if he’s still alive.
That said, I actually feel the exact opposite of my subject header about TDK. :) I’m not a moron enough to not recognize that the film's greatness still far outweight the flaws. -
Propoganda? Really? I'm surprised you even use a computer, they can record your every keystroke, you know? Take the tinfoil hat off buddy.
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that post was NOT written by dmohrUSC--he said he was quoting a different article.
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We have some B movie love going on over at the Mori TB
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Holmes or Gyllenhaal, I just didn't enjoy the character. Too self-righteous. Seemed more like a physical manifestation of Bruce's own consciousness than a love interest. Always telling him what he probably already knows is the right thing to do inside. I'm glad SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER the Joker was literally left hanging (ie not killed) but was suprised that not only did they introduce Two-Face, they played the whole thing out and he was dead (apparently) by the movie's end. For the next movie, Nolan should tie in Ace Hunter from Megaforce.
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From one liberal to another, I guaran-f*cking-tee you I'm hurting our cause about 1 hundred trillion times LESS than the motherf*cking Dark Knight, simply by showing up on this thread and daring to call this movie on its fear-mongering, fascist-ass bullshit. All you have to offer in reply is that I'm a "f*cking douchebag," blah blah blah. Keep on showing off that fanboy mega-IQ for the whole world to see.
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Here's my thing with Depp: He's good in certain things. Do you ever forget you're watching Johnny Depp? No. The same way you never forget you're watching Tom Cruise...who I like as well. Cruise had his Born On The Fourth Of July. Depp had his Gilbert Grape. To put Depp (or Cruise) in the same league as Daniel Day Lewis, Gary Oldman, or Ledger is a great leap. Thede guys are chameleons. They change their voices, walk, physical bearing etc and disappear into a character. Depp has one voice...his John Lovitz impression he uses when he does Ed Wood or Willy Wonka. He's not bad...but to mistake 'great acting' which of course is subjective...with the likeability of a character like Jack Sparrow is a great leap. EXAMPLE: I just caught 20 minutes or so of Brokeback Mountain on TV. I've never seen it before but was intrigued to catch some of Ledger's performance after seeing TDK. WOW. Compare those 2 Ledger characters. After 3 or 4 minutes I forgot it was him and started to believe this character. Just like the Joker. It's when people talk about Depp in THOSE terms that makes me crazy.
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1 - yeah, what you said
2 - fox said after he did this, he was out, he knew it would destroy the computer
3 - I would imagine it was to get an idea of what kind of bullet he was using, different bullets = different was the fragment parts would line up [maybe]
4 - he wanted to wear what he was wearing when rachel was alive
5 - he had one wing deployed which I guess hindered his decent, later on, he may have been faking it to get joker in close
6 - yep
7 - he would have known, either by feeling his face under gauze, or by looking in reflective surface
8 - gordon was his adversary at the start, when harv was IA, the pd called him harvey two-face, also, batman saved him, not gordon - maybe hey was informed the gordon was too late to save rachel nitpick your nitpicks! and yeah, TDK's good bits FAR outway it's iffy logic. -
Cause he can take it... He's more than a hero... He's..................... THE DARK KNIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!! And John Connor... And Patrick Bateman (for real???)
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Thats probably one of the few things I had trouble swallowing. Iw was just as rushed through as Anakin, more so even, they shouldnt have tried to cram all that in at the end, it would have been better if they ended Harvey's arc in the hospital somehow, instead of the Joker turning into Palpatine there for 5 minutes.
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Yep. British police interrogated, and released Christian Bale on (heh) BAIL after he alledgedly assaulted his mother and sister before the London premier of TDK. Wonder what Clooney's doing 3 years from now? Looks like we'll have a recasting, if the Warners suits have anything to say about it (and they will). Probably lose Nolan as director, too... plus the inevitable tanking at the box office. Couls be worse, though... if Bale was on Lost, they'd have Batman killed off last minute in an offhand way. Too bad.
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The movie was a great escape for me. You know why? Because I'm not an overly serious, paranoid, asshole who reads something into everything I see. It's fiction moron. Entertainment. You are a joyless douchebag. Off all the brainless, idiotic, bitter posts I have read on this site yours are the worst, and the idiot you quoted from? He's as bad as you. Only a completely paranoid, completely utterly radical left wing moron would utter such drivel. Tell you what go back to a little dark room with no computers, no tv, no radio, and live in isolation. You'll be happier and so will we. Damn you piss me off!
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I couldn't see the whole screen when I was down in front. I almost left, but I complained and the nice usher let me sit in his plastic chair at the top.
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I'm glad my posts piss you off, because you might just start THINKING for the first time in your life about what is actually IN the movies and TV and music and games you play. I'm here to touch a nerve with folks like you who otherwise don't give the slightest bit of thought to what's really up with what you consider "entertainment". You would probably have an awesome time watching direct satellite feeds of prisoners being tortured at Guantanamo, and react exactly as you have in your last post to anyone who objected to the content of what you were watching. THINK ABOUT IT, for god's sakes.
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Might I ask, just which mass entertainment you find acceptable?
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What a rush job at the end there.
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Since I'm just about the only one taking my side of the issue, I'll apologize to Geekhaterssuck for saying that he would enjoy watching "direct satellite feeds" of prisoners being tortured at Guantanamo. In the heat of the moment, I crossed a line, and I am sorry. I would like to revise that statement to "fictional recreations" of prisoners being tortured at Guantanamo. My point overall is: what is acceptable to us in our fiction? How much futher do we have to go before some segments of our population are enjoying fictional recreations of prisoners being tortured at Abu Ghraib? The scenes of torture and phone-spying and the overall forcing of social hopelessness that 'The Dark Knight' gave the audience DID NOT qualify as "good entertainment" to me. And, par for the course, everyone is telling me to "shut the fuck up," because you sycophantic fanboys JUST DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN TOTAL F*CKING GUSHING PRAISE ABOUT YOUR WORSHIPPED POP-CULTURE IDOLS. Simple as that.
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Which recent movies would you recommend?
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whatever for? everyone knows it was joker's doing. the bat said he wanted to get the prints off when he took out that chunk off the wall. the ballistic scene is cool to see but really, it adds to up to nothing.
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What are you smoking dmohr and where can I get some? -
Just saying they gotta pretty big stake in how this story is reported and perceived by people. This movie still needs to make a lot of coin over the next month for WB to put Speed Racer behind them.
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Are you kidding? Do you really think I'm going to recommend anything here? The moment I mention a title, it's going to get shot full of holes by anyone here just for the sake of it. I just attended the CONvergence geek fest at the Twin Cities, and sat in on a few forums, and I could just tell by the reactions of all the fanboys that the moment I would open my mouth and mention a title of a movie that wasn't affiliated with DC or Marvel, or made by Lucas, Spielberg or the Wachowskis, that I was going to get eaten alive. "Pretentious asshole," "boring," blah blah blah. I'm willing to bet ten bucks that everyone here has about a one-minute attention span, and wouldn't even care to watch anything if it didn't have some goddamn action figure or video game tie-in. Look, why bother mentioning anything to you when you know as well as I do that YOU REALLY DON'T GIVE A SHIT?? So for the record, I liked "Old School" and "Knocked Up" and "No Country For Old Men," there, there you go, there are the three movies I can think of that I've seen recently that fit into your fanboy tunnel vision of what's cool, otherwise everything gets put through the shredder. Hats off, fanboys, enjoy your f*cking lameass lives renting an endless slew of soul-deadening bullshit at the Blockbuster "new releases" section.
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That's some quality entertainment right there. Made even better when they follow it up with America's Funniest Home Videos Of Dogs Getting Dragged Behind Cars.dmohrUSC is so deluded and paranoid that he would see fascist propaganda in an episode of Joy of Painting.I haven't even seen the movie yet but I can't let that kind of stupidity slide.I'd risk personal injury by calling Dubya a lying, murdering, silver spooned douchebag to his face in front of Secret Service agents and likewise, I need to call dmohrUSC a jerkwad through the anonymity of the internets.
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Run for your fucking lives!
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I bunch of underachieving, fat, beerguzzling douchebags pitifully returning to college to relive their youth by boozing it up and fucking skanks because their real lives are pathetic failures. Just what America needs. Not a exporatory and revealing film about the dark nature of man and our society, like the Dark Knight. Old School.
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Great punchline. My point exactly: humor in its purest essence. Christ almighty. I'm so goddamned proud to call folks like you fellow Americans.
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A smart, gritty crime movie that just happens to feature Batman, that dude in the cape. It's like Law & Order meets Superfriends. Only without the other superpeople
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"2 - fox said after he did this, he was out, he knew it would destroy the computer."
fox looked surprised is more like it when he found out his name actually destroyed the computer. He will reconsider his resignation.
"4 - he wanted to wear what he was wearing when rachel was alive"
That's a bit over-reaching. Not strong enough a motif. And since nolan was embarassed enough to always cover the burnt suit in darkness, why not just drop the idea altogether? You can hardly see it anyway. And if fans can take scarecrow wearing just a suit, i think we'd be fine with two-face without the silly comic book costume.
"5 - he had one wing deployed which I guess hindered his decent, later on, he may have been faking it to get joker in close"
No wing was deployed(besides, i dont think you can deploy 'half' a wing). I paid close attention and was waiting for that to happen. Nope. He fell straight down with nothing to break the fall. but you're right about him faking it with the joker. didn't think about that.
"7 - he would have known, either by feeling his face under gauze, or by looking in reflective surface"
We can imagine that, sure. What i meant was if it was shown to us in one scene, it'd make much more of an impact on us to understand his psyche.
"8 - gordon was his adversary at the start, when harv was IA, the pd called him harvey two-face, also, batman saved him, not gordon - maybe hey was informed the gordon was too late to save rachel
nitpick your nitpicks! "
Not good enough a motif. He has more valid reasons to hate batman & joker.
Yep, i'm just nitpicking really. Been 2 days after i've seen it now. i still cant shake it off my brain. -
Jul 22, 2008 12:43:30 PM CDT
TDK is excellent, not perfect. It isn't flawless. But it raise
by jdanielp
I see there's a lot of nitpicking around here...and we can expect that, in the talkbacks. I remember reading a Dick Giordano interview (you DC Comics fans should know who I'm referring to) in which he stressed the importance of storytelling, of NEVER confusing the reader. The layout of comic book sequential art should feel natural to the reader, being obvious as to which panel is next. (I'm not quoting, however.) My point is that...when the reader, or in this case, the moviegoer, has to make a mental leap in order to make sense of what has taken place, that's not necessarily the best transition (unless it has real purpose). Maybe there's a 3-hour cut waiting for home video, which would make "THE DARK KNIGHT" even better. I, too, felt the jarring cut from Batman saving Ms. Dawes. As an audience member, we all have to make that leap and naturally, you come to a simple conclusion, which it forces you to make. And as a longtime fan, I naturally figured Batman used his cape to save Ms. Dawes. But to me, THAT was NOT visually obvious...and may require more of a leap from a lesser fan. Maybe a wire should have been trailing, quickly attached to the building side as Batman slid after her. You can look at all these little things and for some, they can really add up. And to be completely honest, I can understand that point-of-view. There is something to be said for a natural smoothness in storytelling. Sometimes, in the case of movies, storytelling will suffer for the need to cut picture length. So... maybe we should be waiting for that extra-long cut. That is, after we've seen this excellent picture two or three more times. (heh,heh)
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That was just to get an accuarate model of how the bullett fragmented so the real sample could be reconstructed, and then a hopefully-traceable print taken off it? I thought that pretty cool actually. Detective Comics indeed!
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"Why don’t they leave the political bs out of these movies, and just focus on entertainment? The movie stands as a propanganda film..." That post was probably from someone who had Noooooo problem with the slew of politicaly charged films over the last couple years which he AGREED with. Just sayin'.
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dang it
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You could also say the movie is against extreme measures because it inspires people to blow your city up. You are seeing what you want and trying to make everyone else see it your way. Thats just as extreme as what is in the movie.
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HOD is not just an American--he's a card-carrying member of the Church of Chang and a dedicated Warciple
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Have filed charges...
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I'll tell you this much, Old School isn't a thinly veiled endorsement of the Bush Administration agenda like The Dark Knight is. Which is really more damaging to our national psyche? How many times do people re-watch Old School, compared to how many times kids are going to be re-watching The Dark Knight, again and again and again?
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Thanks for clearing that up. Seriously.
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Just a little advice. You sound new to this so I'm going to cut you some slack. Keep fighting the good fight. And now I'm done with you.
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I asked you what you would recommend because I wanted to know. Perhaps if you refrained from categorizing everyone as a 'fanboy' you might be able to see that there are many points of view towards movies on this site. There is no such thing as a monolithic viewpoint. That being said, because this is a geek oriented site, and I assume you knew that before signing on, it does skew towards movies that appeal to the sci-fi/fantasy/horror fan. And as such, those movies will drive the conversations and be appreciated far more than typical mainstream fare. However, that does not mean that mainstream movies are not loved. If you would just wander away from this TB - which of course is Batman centric into other TB's that deal with far different movies -such as the Movie a day TB, you will find a different audience. Even the Mori Outlander TB, has a listing of top ten movies of 2007 by a few posters, and none include a sci-fi or fantasy 'fanboy' type movie. In short, broaden your horizons, and look around before attacking. Otherwise, you will be seen as just someone who wants to start a fight, and not engage in any meaningful conversation. There is nothing wrong with saying you do not like a certain movie. But attacking people who do like that movie, does not foster any meaningful dialogue. But perhaps you do not care to do so. In which case you will invite, the scorn and derision that you have encountered so far. For every movie that you or anyone can name, I am postitive that someone can find negative things to say about it. But the point of being on a site like this should be about finding things in common, not about throwing bombs.
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Or this is the worse trolling ever. -
New to what? Cut me some slack...or else? Sorry, I didn't know you were in charge. But that's cool, I think you really mean well, so I'll cut you some slack too. Cheers.
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I think plenty. I just don't over think and let everything I see carry some hidden propaganda. You can find a message in everything if you look hard enough and doing that will just drive you crazy. Certain movies such as Lions for lambs and Stop loss and such have a very blatant message in their story. That's what it's about. But to overanalyze a comic book movie is just stupid. Yes there could be some messages inferred from the movie government spying being one. However to rant and rave like you are is not promoting thinking it's just whining because you inferred a meaning and that insulted your warped ideological views. I'm sure you and I would disagree on a lot of issues but I'm going to use this forum to try and force feed my point of view under the guise of criticizing a piece of fiction. Also I went to see TDK because I have been a fan of Batman since I was a child and I am adult enough to keep fiction where it should be in the fictional world. Something you apparently have trouble doing. I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself USC thank you, and I've done just fine in my first 31 years of life. I don't worry about governtment spying because I don't have anything to hide. I don't worry about the message of fiction because I'm mature enough to realize that everyone has an agenda and it's my choice on how to take it in and respond to whatever message is put before me, and when I do have children I will be responsible enough to not expose them to things that I will consider harmful and not approriate. So you see USC not everyone who does not see your hidden unholy messages that must be stopped in every piece of media you see is thoughtless. We are just grown up enough to realize that not everything has to be overanalyzed, censored, and then taxed in order to have approval to be shown. You call me thoughtless? Your thought process and views are that of the mindless sheep you accuse others of being. Get a clue.
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Last post I meant I'm not going to to use this forum to try and force feed my point of view under the guise of criticizing a piece of fiction. Dang guess I should proofread.
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You really are the best of us.
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England doesn't fuck around do they?
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More pontificatig while Im off work today.. while Sony might be a little miffed at losing the Spidey Box Office record, I bet the guy in the Blu-Ray division is rubbing his hands together in glee at amount of BD players and discs this movie is going to drive come Christmas season. I'll wager they're drawing up the details for the bundled packages even as we speak. PS3 with a free DK Blue Ray for Xmas, anyone?
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Thanks for the most thoughtful post yet here. I mean that. I posted here because I wanted to say (and believe I have the right under our Constitution to say) that The Dark Knight is the most malicious and truly dangerous movie I've seen since Natural Born Killers. And we as citizens of the United States have the right to call movies on their dangerous, distorted and depraved bullshit, just as we have the right to editorialize about the Bush Administration. I chose to post my thoughts here in this forum, because it saddens me that the innocence I once felt amongst the fanboy contingency, when I was in my teens, has now in the Bush/Cheney era turned into a pack of ass-kissing, un-thinking, swallow-anything-they-feed-you, cliquish morons who hate thinking about thoughts "outside" their boundaries of what is cool, especially when it has to do with what they DO consider cool. I'm serious, if the next Batman movie involved waterboarding and forced-cell interrogations, I don't think anyone here would so much as bat an eye: hey, it's all fiction, "it's just a movie." I disagree, I think all these things feed into our collective national consciousness, and actually desensitize us to our own and each other's humanity, and eat away at our empathy for each other. The Dark Knight is just the latest example of the mainstream media's trying to inundate the masses with its spiritual and ethical poison. And believe me, when I added my first post to this forum, I didn't have any illusions about anyone here actually thanking me for coming here, and I certainly don't expect any. But if I've even helped to make one person think about what the f*ck is REALLY going on in The Dark Knight, then my posts haven't been totally in vain. But hey, at least I've been actively using my First Amendment rights, that's still got to count for something, even around here.
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Just trying to be reasonable. But as you well know, when the troll wars resume, I will be flinging them off the pile as fast as anyone.
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She was likely saying how much of a shitball McG is and how the Angels movies sucked harder than a whore with a huge utility bill, Bale was defending him. Things got ugly.
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Man, mouthing off to your mother gets you thrown in the dock? I'd be a lifer for sure. You're the best, Mom, sorry I missed your birthday the other month. Now will you please drop the charges?
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Has it occurred to you that your fight shouldn't be with a Batman movie but rather other forms of media that choose to gloss over what's truly important?For instance, why is it when Karl Rove ignores a subpoena and the White House conveniently steps in and issues Executive Privilege that it makes front page news once and then disappers the next day? If the news organizations where as liberal as Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, O'Reilly, Coulter, Beck and Boortz would have you believe, don't you think this would be the top story EVERY SINGLE DAY until Rove's fat arse was tossed in a jail cell? Liberal like hell. Instead the news latches onto the runaway bride who was the top headline for how many weeks? So fire at salvo the news media and those conservative talking heads I mentioned above.The Dark Knight isn't withering away our freedoms and encouraging Joe Six-Pack to turn to fascism, our President and his administration are. Sure, sure, sure, we've all heard enlightened people talk about how George has taken the Consitution and wiped his butt with it, but does the mainstream media make it their main story day after day and week after week until even the troglodytes that voted for Bush TWICE get the idea that these goons daily drop trou and crap all over this country? No, the MSM bearly whispers it.If you want to get fired up about a movie, why not go after Ben Stein's "Expelled" instead? Those dumb mofo's that go after Michael Moore because he's fat or manipulates facts need to see the real message that's being delivered. We have doctors in our country that would tell a person without insurance who comes into their hospital with severed fingers that they can't help them whereas in other countries that type of inhumanity is incomprehensible. Yet folks go after Moore for showing the "compassionate conservatives" what hypocritical d-bags they are and not Stein for shoving that intelligent design garbage our way.Batman is there to entertain, plain and simple. You want to have your world rocked with movies that will show you what's really going on and how corrupt our government and media really are, then fire up The Corporation, King Corn, Why We Fight, Maxed Out, Iraq For Sale, The Smartest Guys In The Room and No End In Sight.For the record, I don't think there was a single explosion, robot or bullet time effect in my top 10 favorite movies of last year. No wait, a car blew up in Michael Clayton. OK, so I guess I proved your point. I do like movies where sh*t blows up.
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Even if you are a troll, you have bruce wayne deciding to rid his city of crime by violating the law, civil rights, and personal privacy. He does this because he thinks its the right thing. It ends up costing him the woman he loves, being hunted like a criminal, and damning him to forever fight vicious psychotics that HE created(and hurting the city much more than helping it). How does any of that support using batmans methods in the real world?
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You said "We have doctors in our country that would tell a person without insurance who comes into their hospital with severed fingers that they can't help them whereas in other countries that type of inhumanity is incomprehensible." What the country are YOU living in?? And I agrre...Michael Clayton was my fave of last year.
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...okay, point taken dude... you have a point of view... you're exercising your 1st Amendment right to free expression. But... c'mon... dragging politics into a freakin' Batman movie? At what is basically a genre movie geek website? Why don't you surf on over to commondreams.com or alternet.org where you'll find people who'll take you a little more seriously?
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...Natural Born Killers kicked major ass!
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You certainly have the right to express to your views. I just still say your reading far too much into fiction and entertainment and anyone who does that long enough will find fault in anything and I for one would not want to live like that. Comics and movies have used current events and social metaphors in their media since they began. What makes The Dark Knight any different or so dangerous? I definately did see messages of "Big brother," I also saw messages of consequences of the choices you make, and the danger of trusting the "devil you don't know", the hidden evil that can lurk behind the truest soul and so many others, and some I did not agree with but I'm not so overly sensitive that I was insulted and feel the need to shout to the mountaintops about the danger The Dark Knight poses. If you look for the danger in everything you will never find the joy.
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However just a point of clarity. Sicko didn't show a man with severed fingers denied care because he didn't have insurance. It showed a man with severed fingers WITH insurance forced to choose only one finger to be sewed back on because the cost of sewing on his middle finger would have been too great. Yep. Nothing wrong with our healthcare system.
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You should be protesting GTA ... I don't know where you live but that "game" has created quite a few criminals around here. I just read a few weeks back how some 14 and 17 year olds in suburban Long Island beat the living shit out of some guy at a bus stop and attempted to carjack an old lady. Their motivation as explained to the cops? Grand Theft Auto.
I fear for our future ... -
Sounds even worse than the one we have in the USA. They're PC to the point of insanity. And aren't they even thinking of implementing Sharia Law????? Wow, what a mess. I guess there must be something in the wigs the judges wear.
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Insurance or no, you know the health care system is broken when someone dies after waiting 13 hours for some damned help - in the damned waiting room.
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Cool post, thanks much, glad to hear someone here is tuning into stuff outside the fanboy norm. But there you go again, "Batman is there to entertain, plain and simple." I totally disagree. I'm not entertained by listening to a widow (who isn't really a widow) hurl abuse at the policemen who tell her her husband is dead. I'm not entertained by watching a guy hold a gun to a child's head for almost five minutes, while the "super-hero" (yeah, right) just stands by and tries to TALK him out of it (GMAFB). I'm not entertained by watching someone temporarily resign their conscience over using illegal wiretapping systems. I'm not entertained by lingering over minute after minute of people deciding to blow up boatfuls of other people (while NO ONE ELSE so much as protests), just to show the audience how rotten and selfish some of us are, but then the moviemakers pull back and show us "ooh, they didn't really do it, see, they really DO care after all!" I'm not entertained by supremely hypocritical moviemaking that keeps playing it both ways and insults the audience's intelligence by doing so. I'm not entertained by having a sense of totally humorless hopelessness forced on me, which feels like an ideological sales pitch to buy into the rottenness of humanity and approve of uber-shady, unethical means to control our rotten-to-the-core species. Sorry, I don't care how many billions of fanboys who've only seen 100 or 10,000 movies in their lifetimes swear it's one of the greatest movies of all time, I AIN'T F*CKING BUYING IT.
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Jul 22, 2008 1:37:37 PM CDT
AND YEAH, TRY GETTING A HOSPITAL TO REATTACH YOUR FINGERS
by bringingsexyback
if you have no insurance. The privatization of healthcare and hospitals in this country has obliterated all sense of moral ethics.
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I live in the US of A and even though I have tremendous issues with this country, I love it enough to have become naturalized as a citizen so I can vote and call myself a patriot. But our healthcare is lacking. 40 million uninsured folks is a disgrace and letting people die who can't afford an organ transplant is a black mark that can never be erased. And yet all three branches of our government have free healthcare provided to them at the expense of the same people who don't earn enough to afford coverage.
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Does watching Golden Girls give you a mild case of depression? It does for me ...
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Yeah. Probably from growing up playing ultra-violent shit like GTA their whole lives. I agree with some of what you said DGDB, but we have to hold our mediamasters accountable sometimes.
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Yup, I realize that. Even if it's wrong to do so, I lump the underinsured people in with the uninsured people because frankly, when it comes to affording major medical, they are in the same boat.Either way, the guy got screwed. Glad to see you watched it though.
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You're not entertained by it? That's fine don't watch it again. Still no reason to claim what you have about it. It's just simply not the case.
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Does Maria know how you spend your afternoons?
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Sweet merciful god.
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Of course there are kids who, for some reason, are already predisposed to crime, but surely games like GTA are no help and can even inspire them. Sorry, I don't see any entertainment value in that game. I think it's a damned blight on society that something so vile and violent can be so popular with young impressionable kids.
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You're everything I'm afraid of. I truly hope my children never go to the same high school as yours. Hey, best of luck getting Ted Nugent elected President, and giving every American a loaded semiautomatic on President Nuge's swearing-in day...guess we'll just have to see whose family gets mown down by bulletfire first, yours or mine. It's all a matter of odds, right? Have yourself a happy future.
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I'll admit, the cast is great.It is a long shot for the end-all-be-all.If this is bathed in realism and is the "best", then why did Nolan go with the following choices and plot inconsistancies:1. Falls that could kill easily. Batman and Rachel fall off a BUILDING; without injury.Batman and Two-Face fall out of a building; Two-face dies from the fall. Batman runs away!No matter what kind of suit or tech Batman has, falling from a height high enough will KILL you. Batman could be wearing a tank and still DIE.2. Wow, they are still rebuilding Wayne Manor, probably made of normal building materials. They sure as hell had time to build an underground lair underneathe a cargo container in a business district that is tricked up with awesome light up floors, motion detectors, elevator, sub-floor batsuit containers, etc...I think you get the point.3. So if the Joker thinks Harvey Dent is Batman, hense him trying to kill him in the armored car, then why would he have a complicated sub-plot to kill Harvey Dent again, plus Rachel?This one kills me the most, because it is a huge plot inconsistancy and lazy writing. Go ahead, say it was to get a rise out of Batman! NO, because the whole reason he was going after Dent in the first place was because he thought he was Batman. Circular logic! The whole beginning of the film was about the Joker going after Batman.4. The beginning of the film was very 'jumpy' editing wise. It would hop from an extreme fight scene to Harvey Dent mid-conversation.5. So the highly engineered "bridging vehicle" that they couldn't get the bridge to work, but hell, let's make it a transformer instead. Retarded. The Batpod could have been a whole other vehicle all together.6. The beginning had choppy editing. Batman with swift crazy action cut to Harvey Dent in the middle of a conversation. Our pace car just hit the brakes!7. Saying that Heath Ledger is amazing is true, but look back to the talk-backs past and see what the time-capsule has to say. Many of you here now couldn't believe what a horrible choice he was. Besides, the theatre I was in, everyone cheered the moment he hit the screen. Sure band-wagoners, I'm almost positive you've all loved Heath so much from his previously mocked film "Brokeback Mountain" on this site. If his performance of the Joker is the most positive or accurate comic-book portrayal, then Robert Downy Jr. deserves an Oscar worthy note for Tony Stark.Over all calling this the "greatest of all time", it has to be analyized as such.I did love the movie and the points it struck home with, but I believe this is moving comic book movies in the direction they need to be.
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Jul 22, 2008 1:51:36 PM CDT
WHAT KIND OF HOSPITAL WOULD ONLY ATTACH ONE FINGER AND NOT ALL
by bringingsexyback
even if the insurance didn't cover it. Fucking monsters. Ron Paul 08
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Movies don't create psychos. Movies make psychos more creative. (not the exact wording I know). Violent movies and video games could be a factor in violent behavior but it's not the only factor. Nor is it the underlying cause. In the case of children it is the parents responsibility to monitor what they are exposed too. That's the major issue facing this country imo. Parents who let their kids do whatever the hell they want. If you have no boundries at home you will have no boundries in society.
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Isn't he in the new Toby Keith film "Beer For My Horses"? There's your target dmohrUSC. Sic'em.
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Dinner's on me if I win. You guys like Italian?
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I think we will have to agree to disagree on most of your points, but, that being said, I am glad that you are that passionate about it that you are not afraid of being marginalized. I think your method of getting your point across needs refining, but if you are genuine in your beliefs, you will find a way to overcome your present difficulties with your message.
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Since when was yelling at your moms a crime? That's nuts
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Really? You sure had me fooled - you totally come off like Joe Six-Pack Uber-Redneck-Asshole Esq., who drives an oversized Hummer to compensate for his hysterically miniscule penis. Glad to be proven wrong...
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because Batman had not turned himself in as promised so the demand was still valid. Batman had not turned himself in so therefore more people had to die and Dent and Rachel were the most logical choices. Use a little thought and the answer is easy.
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I haven't seen TDK yet so in all fairness and honesty to you, I skipped over a lot of your post because I don't want spoilers when I watch it in the fall.Life sucks, dude. If TDK mirrored what's going on in the world and it's too sick and twisted and fascist for you, then I don't know what to tell you. Real world villains hold guns to kid's heads and sometimes even pull the trigger. You ever see the photos of the ten year old boys in Sierra Leone who had hands and feet hacked off because they weren't mining enough diamonds? That enraged me so much my wife is the only woman I know whose engagement ring doesn't contain a diamond. I'm the angriest man in America. Really I am. I know DannyGlovers thinks he is, but he hasn't met me yet. I'm a ball of hard core rage. Yet I fight the good fights. Thinly veiled propaganda in a Batman movie isn't such a good fight.
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just not in the hands of criminals and kids who play GTA.
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I haven't seen it yet. Thankss
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Wasn't the Dark Knight a really good movie? :p
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Jul 22, 2008 2:00:37 PM CDT
"It is a shame that we’ll never see Heath as the Joker again"
by samsquanch
It's also a shame that Heath Ledger fucking died.
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Harvey Dent says he's Batman - Turns himself in - Joker goes after Harvey Dent because he says he is Batman and turns himself in - Joker fails in his mission to kill HarveyWHILE STILL INCARCERATED JOKER HAS SECONDARY PLAN TO KILL HARVEY AGAINUse a little thought and understand, just because you have fuzzy feelings about it, it is poorly written and uses circular logic.
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I got you both beat but that was hilarious.
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but gentlemen can agree to disagree yeah, I'm just trying to make the movie more fun for you, and anyone else wondering these things, the one that took me out of TDK was where did he get the suit? to which I thought maybe he got it from registry at the hospital, or rodrigues got it from evidence.. maybe it was in the hospital room.
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on the diamondless ring. Your woman's a keeper.
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Quack quack!
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Why should it make sense? Joker said he was there to cause chaos, and anarchy. What do you think killing the city's "white knight" would do? He did tell Harvey in the hospital he wasn't responsible for that part if my memory serves (of course it didn't before LOL). Of course he could have been lying, and besides Joker may have been psychotic but he wasn't stupid. A back up plan isn't that far fetched. Ok maybe it doesn't take extra thought maybe just a little imagination.
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"Read my lips."
"They're gross, man." -
You cheapskate, HOD. ;-)
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Congrats BTW.
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"Read my lips."
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(In low voice): "Read my lips."
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"I'm gonna make this pencil disappear..."
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Thanks for the indirect support, gents. I knew I'd be in the corner of the ring at this forum, didn't expect anything else. I can appreciate your observations, HOD -- yeah, of course, a lot of life sucks. (Shit, man, half my family tree on my dad's side died in the Holocaust.) But does "fighting the good fight" also mean caving into the vibe of movies that don't offer anything other than humorless hopelessness and total cynicism re: humanity? "Thinly veiled propaganda in a Batman movie isn't such a good fight." See, I disagree, because there is no bigger medium in the world today than the blockbuster movie, which feeds directly into our COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS, what all of us as a people think and feel. And yeah, I could go over to another forum to talk about this, where people would be more "sympathetic," but I'm not interested in "preaching to the choir" - I'm interested in getting this across to people who initially disagree, who don't want to hear about it or think about it because they aren't used to ever THINKING FOR THEMSELVES about these things: which especially means in the case of The Dark Knight, the present-day fanboy demographic.
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stallone doesn't have to worry about his mother whippin out her magnum anymore
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I'm not really sure I see the need for a game like GTA, but as a parent I wouldn't let my kid anywhere near it. My daughter hears my wife and I saying "Please" and "Thank you" constantly and as a result her daycare says she's the most polite child they've had the pleasure of knowing. It all starts in the home.Ted Nugent, Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney, Rick Santorum and the prick who runs the God Hates Fags Church need to be crammed into a flaming Hummer and pushed out the back of a cargo plane onto the Crawford ranch.That is all.
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Much appreciated!
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Use his anger for a purpose, mainly to stomp out shitheels and infidels...those that don't follow the way of the pencil.
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and said something like he could barely think about what shirt he was going to wear for the interivew. let alone a suit for the premiere. He did look like he had other things on his mind. and not just the TDK premiere. I think he should do something a little ligh hearted. for a while. all this darkness could have an effect.
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during the premiere of his movie? Biotch.
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Rainbows will be shooting out of his butt...seriously, it's in the movie.Thanks McG.
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Perfect analysis on why Joker wanted Dent dead my friend. Also who was Joker looking for and Bruce's party. Wait for it..... That's right HARVEY DENT, and he had not revealed himself to be Batman so the whole point whoever that was was trying to make has just proven invalid.
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The kind of mother who deserves some Keysi kung-fu upside her head, apparently!
"Hello...I am John Connor. Humanity's last hope. A leader of Tech Com against Skynet. And I've got technicolor feces" -
I'm guessing no, but I could be wrong.
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but maybe a game or two of GTA might sway him?
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source of masculinity in the world.Bruce Campbell...Burt Grummer...2for2true.Warwick Davis...Tony Jaa...Kurt RussellThe power of the BearsThe beauty of hot MILFS...The CoC.
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Avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. You know just how dangerous that is my friend.
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With "Hell's Bells" playing in the background.
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Joker did not ever intend to kill Dent; only to corrupt him. He predicted Bats and Gordon would rush out to save Dent and Rachel, and he switched the locations (lied to Bats) about which person was being held at which location. Thus, Joker "arranged" for Bats to save Dent--not Rachel. I kinda figured Joker counted on Rachel's death putting him over the top. His burn injuries were just frosting on his anarcake
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You know, pretty soon, those MILFS will turn into GILFS!
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Jul 22, 2008 2:26:33 PM CDT
My final thoughts before I get some actual work done
by hawaiian organ donor
Yes, I could have bought a Canadian diamond but because of everything that's come before it, I think all diamonds have blood on them. Besides, the diamond industry is a joke. Diamonds are no more rare than the air biscuits my co-worker cracks out everyday after Mexican for lunch. DeBeers has vault upon vault FULL of diamonds that they keep out of circulation. Pulling a penny out of circulation doesn't make it a rare commodity, fellas.More people watch American Idol and Two and a Half Men every week than will see TDK. Both of those only contribute to the dumbing down of America. And a bunch of dumba**es is easily manipulated and likely to run out and buy an SUV because gas drops 15 cents in one week.And trust me, when I say I'm the most intense rage-a-holic you'll ever meet, you better believe it. I had wipers installed INSIDE my windshield.
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diversion...one that he hoped would still work out in his favor with bits of Gotham people spread over the water.
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No matter what spin you put on it. It doesn't make sense, nor be logical for the following:1. Joker stated for the entire fucking movie; that he wanted to kill Batman...until the pursuit and he was captured. He then stated it inside the interrogation room. Are you honestly that naive that the Joker wouldn't have killed Batman on the ground outside of the armored car?2. Even if Harvey Dent "The White Knight" of Gotham wasn't believed to be Batman, then why the effort to kill him? It wouldn't have made sense otherwise. It could have been a lured strike to kill Batman for the Joker, but why have a plan to kill someone twice? One that is so elaborate, that involves surgery and the hope that the Joker gets his phone call. That would mean the Joker planned to fail. Which was not implied by the film.Your response is the romaticized hindsight of the film. Logically, those parts do not make a whole of the decision making process of the characters.The Joker's sole purpose was to kill Batman, until they finally met face-to-face. Unfortunately, the movie didn't build that backing yet. It was ingrained in us already. The movie spent more time on the money-laundry ops of the Chinese guy and the wanna-be Riddler auditor.So tell me this, why would the Joker, have a back-up plan to kill Harvey Dent and Rachel (to instigate Batman), when he already had a plan to kill Harvey Dent (which originally he wanted to kill Batman). That would imply that he had a plan to intimidate someone after a plan to kill that person. So he planned this to intimidate the dead Batman?
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it just occurred to me on that last one that it's a spoiler
Ace Hunter and Batman should have a motorcycle contest. Not a race; a motorcycle contest! -
I can't wait for The Dark Knight videogame where the players get to point guns at children's foreheads, and beat up prisoners to get information, and - yeah! - actually blow each other's boatloads of civilians and prisoners out of the water, unlike the movie, which totally wimps out. I really hope they include an intro on the video where we get to hear Harvey Dent's widow screaming her lungs out in grief at the police when she's notified of her husband's death. FUN, FUN, FUN.
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Joker couldn't find Harvey Dent at the party jack-ass...only Batman. Too bad.
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my office filing always wears the nicest summer tops....So, er, that Joker was something, eh?
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1. He said Batman had to turn himself in.
2. He told Batman he did not want to kill him.
3. Where did Joker state that he wanted to kill Batman? The mob? True but he was using them from the beginning. Joker said himself "you complete me." Joker wants his true enemies to suffer the ones he kills are barely worth his time or they are they used as a means to break his true targets. -
but Joker started off merely SAYING to the mob people he would "kill the batman," but that when you're good at something, you don't do it for free. Which I took to mean, he wanted to get in on the mob dealings and influence them, and abscond with a lot of their money in the process. Sure, he SAID he'd kill the Batman, but I don't recall anypart where he really tries to kill him. Yeah, he tries knifing him, fighting with him...but it wasn't Joker who tried to take off Bats' mask, and Joker himself concedes and the end that "I need you." Earlier, he jokes that "you complete me"
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Hi, I'm the Joker coming to Clark Kent's party, but Clark Kent isn't here...but Superman is...hmmm.I had to break it down in comic logic to you. Hope you understand it better.
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Joker couldn't find Harvey Dent at the party jack-ass...only Batman. Too bad. So? Does not change the fact his original target was Harvey Dent not Batman at the party. Jack ass.
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If he beat his girlfriend, I wouldn't care. But he'd better have one hell of an excuse as to why a 34-year old man is beating his mother and sister.
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So when in the movie (other than the fact that Batman fights Joker is ingrained in our psyche) is the Joker/Batman relationship exclaimed? Prior to Joker saying "you complete me", he met Batman for two seconds, one of which Batman punches him in the face. So all of his planning is based on those two seconds? That's you building the logically conclusion, not the plot lines or film.
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The movie has some large plotholes, I even detailed a few of them in post yesterday - such as Batman taking responsibilty for the murders - which makes zero sense. Or Joker waltzing out of the hospital he just blew up with no police in sight. Yes, there are holes. But it is a superhero action movie. Nothing more, nothing less. And plotholes can be more easily forgiven in such a movie. I think some reaction, both positive and negative is due to the hype that the movie recieved. Those who love it, will gloss over the flaws and say it is nitpicking. Those who were turned off by the hype, will point out every flaw real or perceived, in an effort to 'bring the movie down'. I just enjoyed it, flaws and all. It was great entertainment.
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That's Gordon's widow. Dent was upset because Rachel died. And my guess was they'd only been dating for a year or so, if that.
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The first argument you're making is that the movie is evil because Batman resorts to wiretapping and you're reading this as an endorsement of the Bush administration. But the entire point of the Joker story is that in rising to his provocations Batman is losing the moral high ground. We're not talking "24" here. Is the movie Glenn Greenwald's column? No. But Nolan is looking at the moral ambiguity of Batman's position [everything the character has ever done is illegal and morally ambiguous anyway, you know - he's a vigilante who does not respect due process every night of the week] and to do that Batman has to do something, you know, wrong. Saying that TDK is "bad for America" because Batman illegally wiretaps is like saying that "Mutiny on the Bounty" is evil because it features an illegal mutiny. But if you want to argue about the merits of the film's take on the surveillance state, there's an argument to have there. But you also seem to be offering a second argument - that TDK is evil and bad because of its "humorless hopelessness and cynicism regarding humanity", and that's just nonsense. This is where the people calling you pretentious are completely wrong, because as I said above this is the OPPOSITE of pretentiousness - it's philistinism of the first order. You may as well go sign up to join Focus on the Family or the Parents' Television Council right now. Arguments that rely on the idea that artistic worth is determined by the presence or absence of "hopeful, uplifting, constructive" messages about humanity are the hallmark of the philistine and the leper's bell of an approaching book-burner. If it were true that a given work is good if it is hopeful and uplifting and bad if it is hopeless and cynical, then any random episode of the Smurfs is better than Orwell's 1984, and Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants is better than the works of Dostoevsky.
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allegedly...
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That line was hysterical. That got BIG laughs in my theater.
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fine hickory flavoured dickings!
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Let me spell it out. THE FACT IS HE WANTED HARVEY DEAD BEFORE HARVEY REVEALED HIMSELF AS BATMAN! What is so freaking complicated about that? Killing Harvey was part of Joker's "to do" list from the start just as was killing Commish Loeb, the judge, and the mayor. Geez I feel like I'm talking to a five year old.
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That would lead to the Joker's conclusion that Harvey Dent is a believable Batman. We can all see that Superman is here and not Clark Kent...so how's it so hard for you not to believe that the Joker deduced that Harvey was Batman and tried to kill him when he admitted to being so. Why would you call me a jack-ass when your intellectual self must have already processed this scenario.
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Masterful my friend, simply masterful. Could not have said it better myself.
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Right, right. Gordon, not Dent. I stand corrected. Thanks.
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didn't have much direct interaction with each other for Joker to perceive that he needs Batman...completes him. Clearly the Joker knew what Batman has meant to the city...how it has changed. He is the opposite of the Joker, and Joker was drawn to him to try and bring down everything Batman has worked for. His brief encounters with him at the party and the holding cell reinforced this for the Joker I think.
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Not exactly sure what you're asking, my guess is you want to know at what point in the movie is it made clear that yes, this Joker guy is Batman's soul-nemesis. I think it develops gradually, and starts to really gel when Joker insists that Batman turn himself in or "people will die." It's cemented at the end during their final confrontation when Joker notes, "you really are incorruptible, aren't you?" and goes into that brief speech about the two of them being like when "an unstoppable force meets an immovable object." Then SPOILER he's left hanging. This rivalry is underscored at the end by the fact that Batman / Bruce feels he must protect Harvey's good name by taking the heat for Two-Face's crimes. So, in a way, the Bats-Joker rivalry is sealed by the fact that Batman is now an "official" outlaw, in addition to being a vigilante.
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It was shoddy writing. There was no merit is having the Joker plan out two deaths for Harvey Dent and the timeline for said planning doesn't fit. You can try and backpedal all you want, but you haven't proven anything.
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and a tribute to Nolan and the cast of TDK that we're discussing this stuff at all, as opposed to lamenting rubber nipples and bat-thongs
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I get it. And let's not turn the TB into one about the clusterfuck of the healthcare system. But engaging in hyberbole like doctors turning away patients who have severed fingers is nonsense. Surely you can acknowledge while some people can't get procedures done due to coverage and cost...we live in a compassionate enough society that tend to the suffering. Hell, some societies WILL sever your fingers for certain crimes. I give you the last word and return to all things Batman. :)
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You are assuming that the ultimate goal was to kill Batman. It was not it was to destroy all that Batman stood for. Maybe he wanted to kill the Bat but not yet. The way Joker was he would be sure to see that Batman saw his precious Gotham burn to the ground before he finished him. You are basing on the whole theory that the Joker uses a logical thought process which he does not. He's a psychopath, a self admitted agent of chaos. Logic does not fit in his design. He wanted to see Gotham burn and he wanted Batman to bear witness to it. The killing of Harvey Dent was part of that process.
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Best post of the day.
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Joker did mention to Batman that, "for a minute there I really did think you were Dent, the way you threw yourself after her (figuratively and literally)"
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bitches got in his grill.
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Neither have you. Anyone with a sliver or thought or imagination could see past the mental roadblock you seem stuck on.
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Jul 22, 2008 2:53:12 PM CDT