Cool News
No More BABYLON 5...Ever ??
Merrick here...
Taz from the UK sent in a heads up about the status of future BABYLON 5 projects.
In short: BABYLON 5 overgod J. Michael Straczynski (JMS) recently posted a lengthy message at JMSnews.
In the message, he indicated that he & Warners had been discussing further BABYLON 5 projects (probably in the same vein as BABYLON 5: THE LOST TALES, which was released straight-to-DVD last Summer). Warners won't cough up the kind of money JMS feels is necessary to generate good product. JMS has now dismissed the notion of any B5 project other than a feature film. Given the the improbability of a B5 feature film, this pretty much kills BABYLON 5.
See JMS' entire post...
HERE!!!
This information has been online for three days and has gotten little-to-no play, which I find rather astonishing. Perhaps this is an indicator that fans's attentions have shifted elsewhere for the moment & that the franchise needs a breather to freshen itself up. Or, perhaps this suggests with finality that B5's time has, simply, come and gone. I don't know.
Personally, I really, really, really want to see more BABYLON 5 - I love it and am convinced there are still great stories to be found in that universe. However, JMS is correct that later B5 endeavors (THE LOST TALES and THE LEGEND OF THE RANGERS) were tragically underfinanced and underproduced - even for a series which was always generated on a dramatically limited budget. They were cheap...in a way that was hard to look past in the era of shows like STAR TREK and HEROES and BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.
More importantly: while I think the breadth of JMS' vision remained healthy, his ability to weave stories in the universe began to feel increasingly challenged. There was a sense that he'd become less and less comfortable on his own playground, and never plugged into the effortless storytelling which permeated much of the earlier series. Maybe the posse of storytellers should've been broadened a bit? Maybe JMS should've done what many creators do & remain a guiding force for the franchise, while sending others out to do the writing & other dirty work he ultimately chose to do himself?
Clint Eastwood's new film CHANGELING, written by JMS, is getting remarkable reviews and word of mouth. Recently, JMS also scripted an adaptation of the WORLD WAR Z. For a while he was plugged into the (apparently defunct) SILVER SURFER movie, and there's indication he may be soon be toiling on a LENSMAN adaptation. It wouldn't be fair to say "he's moved on", but having so much happening in his career undoubtedly makes drawing a hardline about B5 a helluva lot easier. And, his not wanting to short sell B5...and spend so much time and effort just to end up creatively unsatisfied...is quite understandable when there's so much else to fall back on, and so much else at stake.
Still, I hope that B5 is somehow, someday revived - and shown the regard it deserves by Warners & Company. It's a great place to visit, even if our journey there has been troubled and imperfect.
HERE!!!
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+ Expand All
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Give Babylon 5 the Firefly -> Serenity treatment. And everybody dies in the end. Tie it up real nice.
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ooooooooooooooo
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Saturday morning cartoon voiced by the original actors with scripts written by the original shows writers. There's a clear causal relationship between the Star Trek Saturday morning cartoon, Star Trek the Motion Picture/Wrath of Kahn, then Star Trek the Next Generation -> DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and now J.J. Abrams Star Trek.The revival all started with the Saturday morning cartoon. Contact Filmation right away.
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But I'm afraid JMS just didn't follow through with his storyline. He'd set up a lot of interesting possibilities at the end of the original series that he never really returned to. I don't think it would cost that much to tell a good tale. I think he just lost the thread..
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No more Three's Company... ever again.
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I would like to eventually see all the effects redone on B5 and have it re-released. Call it 'The Babylon Project'. I think that it would really play well today.
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But he could have been right 10 years ago. Update B5 and re-release. Its the story and performances that made it great; only the effects date it.
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...that in the age of actual, big budget Lord of the Rongs movies and various other multimedia based on Tolkien's work, JMS can't get away with so blatantly plagarizing Tolkien, and just shifting it to a sci-fi setting any more. And lets face it, that was clearly what he was best at. Whenever he tried to add on to B5 from the outside it was invariably a mess to one degree or another, and his last couple of attempts were just kind of embarrassing really. I loved Babylon 5 back in the day, but flogging it's carcass just to squeeze a couple more bucks out of the fans really does it no benefit at all.
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JMS already knows how to write comics. Start from scratch and make it a comic. Honestly, Average Joe never cared much for B5, so limited appeal/limited budget. Let it die on TV, write the best B5 storyline possible as a comic, and watch the option get picked up for a movie like every other comic book out there.
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a strong presence from Boxleitner, and without Schiffer. The TV specials were okay, but two hours was not enough time to lay down an intricate story arc like JMS did during the series run. Crusade could have been better, and I don't know the whole story as to why the run ended short, so I'll decline comment. All I will say is thank you to JMS for creating a wonderful series. RIP Babylon 5.
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I don't know if you guys noticed this, but JMS was very classy and thoughtful about the way he did The Lost Tales. He bent over backwards to deliver a DVD to Warner that satisfied their every wish: he spent like zero money, he asked for basically nothing from them and gave them everything they asked for.
Warner's response is completely unthoughtful and ungraceful. They rewarded him by offering him the same awful terms for more DVDs. As someone who used to write about the entertainment industry, I can tell you that is TYPICAL Warner shtick. They always have a stick up their tucus.
You can't GET a more thoughtful and genial guy than JMS when it comes to working in television and ancillary products. If Warner couldn't work out a deal with him, you can blame Warner 150 percent. Trust me on that. -
I would be happy just to see the show properly remastered in its original aspect ratio, exactly as broadcast, and released on DVD's that actually played back without skipping and glitching. The current DVD set is a joke, a travesty, and an insult. It shows no respect for either the show or its fans. I could happily live without a new movie if only I could re-watch the series as it was originally presented.
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I totally agree. Give the series a break but spend some time restoring and remastering the old shows. They look like crap on DVD - put some effort into making it look good, and the potential audience will expand. This show will never see Blu-Ray if they leave it as is.
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Promise? If so then I'm holding them to that.
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for well written American sci-fi. At least the Brits continue to add quality stuff to the genre. Shame about B5, it deserves better.
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written by JMS is possibly one of the best comic books ever. look up the trade paperback and give it a chance.
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Wow.
I've been a big B5 fan ever since the first movie. It's hard to hear that JMS will not be doing any more B5, but I am glad to hear he is sticking to his beliefs. The spin offs were not really good: Crusade, Legend of the Rangers, The Lost Tales, but there was always hope that he would get the financing and do one big kick ass B5 project again.
Thanks for the memories Joe, and perhaps one day we'll meet again out beyond the rim. -
I loved the show. The image of Peter Jurasik (Londo) watching in horror as the Centauri bombard the Narn homeworld is etched into my mind. While agree with Praetor & Wash that a remastered series would be nice, I would be psyched for a JMS-created Lensman series! (which was clearly a big influence on B5) Long live EE 'Doc' Smith!!
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Jul 16, 2008 1:50:46 PM CDT
JMS' Silver Surfer would be a brilliant film with a decent direc
by spyguy
Anyone that has read JMS' SILVER SURFER: REQUIEM series knows that he totally gets the Surfer. If that series was ever made into a film, preferably by someone like Jim Cameron or Ridley Scott, it would be...something wonderful.
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I don't want to crap on anybody's love for B5, but I just never got it. To me anyway, it always seemed to be an unfunny Galaxy Quest, with worse effects. But hell, I liked Firefly and that never found an audience either. So I totally sympathize with you fans of it. But can someone who is a fan tell me what it is I should be expecting with B5, or something about what it takes to be able to appreciate it, in case I go back and try to watch it again?
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The Shadow Wars story arc was as good as TV sci-fi gets. Yes, the effects were nothing to write home about, but it was the writing and the characters that made it great. But once the main story was done, none of the other B5 projects measured up. The TV movies were just okay, Crusade had potential but never really got going and Lost Tales was just completely pointless. As much as I would like to see a properly-funded, get-the-band-back-together B5 project, the show just doesn't have enough of a following for that to happen. I would rather them just let it go than try any more Lost Tales-level productions.
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WB actually had approached JMS about doing a B5 theatrical movie a couple years ago (and this is not The Mystery of Shadows aborted film either), but the deaths of Andreas and Richard were too recent that he felt he couldn't tackle it at the time, but instead suggested a smaller project like The Lost Tales. Now maybe WB will circle back to their original offer for a theatrical film.
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1. Make an animated feature about the War of the Shadows
2. Let Ron Perlman voice Katsulas' character
3. do all your promotions directly via late night text messages on usenet.
4. ???
5. PROFIT -
"Get out!"
"Yaaaay!"fuckin' SPACED. Never got into B5, but I watched a few eps here and there and was always impressed with the drama. -
Jul 16, 2008 4:34:00 PM CDT
Well, if Warners want more B5, they know what to do then....
by paul t. ryan
Decent budget, surviving cast, theatrical release. It's that simple and that hard.
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for it to go to bed. With Andy K and Biggsy dead, it is time to quit. Crusade had potential, but they killed it, just as it was getting interesting.
I own the series and movie collection, and I will cherish it always, but it no more should be made. -
In my opinion, Babylon 5 was the show that couldn't, but made it anyway. Vastly underfunded in comparison to its competition (namely, the Star Trek franchise), it succeeded largely as a result of the writing, writing and more writing. So much so, I didn't mind the occasionally dodgy CGI, cardboard sets and generic TV acting. In fact, I really admired what the B5 crew achieved despite the hurdles (much as I still admire the work of 70s & 80s Doctor Who and Blake's 7). But Babylon 5 told a complete story, and I think it should be laid to a dignified rest.
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that he didn't want to create a franchise, just tell a story.
Well, now it looks like he gets his wish.
B5 has been utter SHIT since early season 4. And I say this as a long long time fan who has attended several B5 conventions.
But it's time has come and gone. It's done. It's over. Stick a fork in its ass and turn it over. -
I've always felt that B5 worked best as a self-contained story (even with all its quirks because of the twists and turns of casting and financing). It stands on its own without the "franchise" effect and all the added stories and series have always felt to me to just dilute the original arc.I would have preferred JMS create another universe for another five year arc - I'm sure he has the imagination for it if he has the strength to see it through.
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that I've ever seen. It's the Empire Strikes Back of "TV seasons".
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Loved the show. Thanks for all the creativity and hard work you put into it.
From an opening scene, where Londo and G'Kar square off with deep, seething portent, to Mr. Morden bringing the coming of Shadows, to the tyrannnical ascent of the Centauri, to deals made in dark halls that engineered the slaughter of billions, to the bombing of the Narn homeworld, to Kosh's angelic rise, to Bester's horrific Psi-Corps manipulations, to the death and resurrection of Captain Sheridan, to Earth's horrific media betrayal, to the construction of the White Star fleet, to the search for the Old Ones, to the final, insanely huge battle between humans, Shadows, and Vorlons for the right of self-determination, this series entertained and moved me like few others ever have.
Thanks. -
I have never been so excited to see what happened next as I was with B5! This is the show that started the fad of SciFi story arcs. I remember a summer night in 1994 when my friend and I were watching B5 and my girlfriend at the time came in and said " Why do you guys like this stuff so much? It's strange ". I turned to the tv and the two actors on the screen were wearing those strange masks that let them breath in the other enviroments on the station. Well I just had to laugh! Unfortunately she just didn't get it. This show may not have had the budget and FX that the other shows have but it had heart and a strong story and characters to boot! Something that most modern shows lust after but don't quite have to the same degree ( yes this includes BSG ). Now I like BSG but I'm still waiting to see if RM pulls the ending off in a great fashion. His strong suit is characterzation. Well that's all fine and good but you've also got to have a strong story as well. This has been important since cave paintings. BSG has an arc it's just a little more murky. I'm hoping RM pulls it all together at the end. B5 however was perfect at this and I miss it. However I have to agree that the thing tht might be lacking in new B5 productions is that the story's already been told. Some of the actors have already passed away and there's no going back to what was. Redo the FXs and polish up the video and I'd watch it again though! I really miss B5 but sometimes things only happen once.
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Okay, it's hard to imagine anyone could improve upon B5 apart from production values. To be blunt, B5 had two and half of the best seasons I've seen on TV (parts of season 2, all of season 3, and most of season 4). But I felt the show had simply gone off the mark in its last season--though in about the same way Buffy was off the mark in its later seasons--which is to say it was still pretty good but somehow frustrating after all the superior greatness that had come earlier. On B5, the FX were cheap and crappy, but the story really carried it well. This is not unexpected news to me since I felt the franchise was over when Andreas Katsulas passed away. I regret that Mira Furlan hasn't had any mainstream roles in American TV or movies since this that match her talents (no, her crazy and now dead French Woman on LOST doesn't count and what a slap in the face it was the way she died too). But I don't think it's permanently gone either. BSG was as dead as possible before Ron Moore brought it back. Granted, I don't know if I'll like a re-imagined B5 anymore than some old school fans of BSG like the new version. But also I think Babylon 5 was better than the original BSG even in its prime. B5 may always feel like a sophisticated answer to Star Trek the Next Generation, which probably dates it a lot. But it will certainly always belong in the Science Fiction hall of fame with Star Trek, Farscape, Firefly (if its brief life can be counted), the new Battlestar Galactica, Dr. Who, and Deep Space Nine (which sure it had similarities to B5 but was great so I don't care). Also sad is that Space Opera is out according to Sci-Fi. They want more cheap shit like Eureka because the ratings are higher when there's mostly an earth setting (or so goes the thinking). Apparently Space shows are too dark and cold. I mentioned to a Sci-Fi Channel guy that Star Trek Next Gen was pretty bright and warm, and then he complained that it was overlit. So a space show is fucked either way apparently. Flash Gordon was crap because it was made on the cheap and lacked the rockets and space that were a part of Flash's adventures (and Ming was a beardless Canadian blond guy), and I fear more franchises will be ruined by this new 'no space' model. Hell, we could end up with more Sliders and Seaquest if we're really unlucky. Not to put down Eureka or the Middleman, they're both fun, but if that's all there is then sci-fi tv will get stale fast. May the worm turn yet again. Dare I hope that live action Star Wars show kick starts space opera shows again? Yeah, probably not.
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Jul 16, 2008 8:29:10 PM CDT
a show that went off the air in 2000 has been cancelled.
by napoleon park
a show that went off the air in 2000 has been cancelled.To quote doggbreth2099, "Now that is cool news."
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Now bring back FARSCAPE damn it!!! Only it is worthy to be resurrected. Frell B5
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I was really looking forward to future B5 stories after seeing Lost Tales (although it wasn't great, still got me excited for more)
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I get that it had a 4 year arc to it. And that's cool. But I'm trying to figure out what was enjoyable to the fan of this show from day 1, in hopes that I can see it in that way too. No one who enjoyed it has ever told me anything other than it had a four year story arc to it. I mean yeah, smallville has a like 7 year arc. But you still need to have a mild appreciation for superman learning his powers to get into it. I can never get that answer someone who watches other Sci-fi can give. That's kind of what I was hoping for. I was looking for that moment where someone who really got it and loved it told me why. But thanks for trying.
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"I don't regret having made
them, because I needed to go through that to get to the point where Iam now psychologically, but from where I sit now, I wouldn't make them again."
If I were George Lucas, I'd write the same about the prequels. -
Because he likes B5.
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Season 4, on.At the time, the SFX were top notch.
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Jul 16, 2008 11:05:27 PM CDT
oh, and JMS wrote that about the B5 spin-offs, not the series.
by amy chasing
as for why we love B5? Simple: It was the first TV show that gave its audience the benefit of the doubt when it came to long term memory - that we could hold a continuing story in our heads over a season, or even 5 seasons. And the story was an epic one about the evolution of the human species as told from a very simple theme that we have to work things out for ourselves even when everyone else tells you to do it another way. I can't think of another show that stuck to its guns as much as B5.
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...but the *design* of some of the spaceships was fantastic, and of course the writing was amazing. My wife made me sit down and watch it on DVD from the first episode; I thought the show was absolutely *awful* for the first 4-5 episodes, especially Captain Eyebrows (as I always call Sinclair). Then came the 5th or 6th episode--the one where Talia's friend/former lover shows up on the run from the Psi Corps--and I was stunned at how good it was. From that episode on I was hooked, but to this day I can't believe that the same production/writing team that made the first 5 episodes was also responsible for the rest of the series--the difference was so great I thought for sure it was a completely different writing team.
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But Crusade had good things going before it was canceled.
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Face it, Bab5 fans... that series was sucktacular towards the end, end Crusade was a shit-fest.
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The whole focus of the production should have been in service of the story about the young man who may one day grow-up to be a threat to the known universe...a galactic Hitler if you will.It was a great idea and wonderfully cast and executed, but instead of focusing on that story...and directing monies to give that story the best production values possible, we were served up a separate story about a demon, and a third story, so bad and bland, that I have completely forgotten it entirely. What a waste of money, time, and effort. I want my money back!!!
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Whatever happened to this great idea?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAOOnadmmpY -
1. Plan out your series years in advance. (Chris Carter's X-Files is the classic counter example). Shows like Lost and Battlestar Galactica have done a fairly decent job with this.
2. Totally good heroes are boring, totally evil bad guys are boring. Every single character on the show had a good side and an evil side, from Sheridan and his megalomania to Morden's debonaire charm, the entire series was populated with characters painted in various shades of gray. Joss Whedon has done wonderful things painting in the same gray palette.
3. No show before or since has had the courage to tackle the tough issues and ask the tough questions and create deep metaphors for the deepest of religious and philosophical questions. Sure most all sci-fi likes to wade in these pools, but Babylon 5 jumped in head first. Heavenly Angels turn out to be sadistic killers? Who saw that coming?
4. If Babylon 5 had been made today, JMS would have been accused of creating President Clark as a way too obvious characterization of President Bush, with the torture, secret prisons, unprovoked invasion of Mars, manipulation of the mainstream media, accusing political opponents as treasonous insurrectionists, etc. I guess its a good thing the show aired a decade earlier, or conservative groups might have chased it off the air after season 2. -
im a huge b5 fan. always liked it better than next gen and bought all of the core series on dvd, i love it but just leave it alone for fuck sake its done. The only thing left is the telepath war and JMS could just write a book or a comic or something. leave it alone and then in 20 yrs or so remake it like battlestar galactica.
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I'd definitely shell out the $. here are probably enough competent fans out there who would be willing to update the FX for free.
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that there's no future hope for these WAYYY over-obsessive fans? I doubt it- what would they do then?
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... B5 is showing it's age. It needs a damn good break and then it can comeback in the Star Trek, BSG style, remade or revamped to suit modern audiences.
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Sorry, but this show was pretty shit.
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I loved you 10 years ago, but it's time to move on folks.
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Well said!!
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Nuff said.
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There could never have been "Buffy", "Lost" or "Battlestar G"...it changed things forever...
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Love to see Jerry Doyle choking the life out of Walter Koeing. It must fucking happen bitches!!!!
B5 was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
better than any of the shitty bland ass Trek spinoffs including the only interesting Trek spinoff and the rather good DS9 which Behr blatently ripped off B5. I want more Garabaldi and I want more fucking Londo as well!!! -
Jul 17, 2008 6:25:35 PM CDT
THIS IS TAZ FROM THE UK!! THANK YOU AICN for your help in gettin
by tazzzer
First off thank you AICN for taking up my message and getting the news about the show out there. Maybe just maybe it might lead to new hope for what I feel is the best Sci-Fi show ever made and the 2nd best tv show (west wing being first) tv show made. I hear many of you complaining that you didnt get it or about the CGI but thing was it was groundbreaking for its day and if you didnt get it its probably bcus B5 unlike Star Trek was amazing if you didnt miss chapters but for those that did I can appreciate that you may well have been confussed by some of it. All I would say is give the DVD's a chance and yes I know against BattleStar today those effects are tired but story wise and writting wise it still kicks ass big time and even then the effects are cool even today. I also know a few of you have said b5 went off track after season 4 and yea i agree. Those of you who followed the show closley will know that this was not JMS's fault what happend was JMS was told there would be no funding for a series 5 and so ended the Shaddow War at the end of Series 4 only then right at the end (with filming of S4 done and wrapped and cash already spent) was then told by Warners that S5 was a go!!! No suprise then that S5 lacked the quality of the previous years. The quality of S5 did impact on reviews of the show i remember one magazine in the UK runnig an article a quarter of a way through season 5 entitled "The rise and fall of B5" and in-turn i guess viewing figures. Still Crusade got approved for a year and I for one was disopointed with it - it just was not even a shaddow of B5. The other spin offs though have been good and i had really looked forward to future Lost Tales not least because I felt the first dvd showed real promise and because JMS had suggested that future installments would be BIG in scale. And so the past 12months I have waited and waited but no new LT and then a few days back I found that post on the jmsnews website and it was sad news at least for me. B5 was the show I spent my teens growing up on, it promised hopes and dreams but also showed how unlike in ST that some problems are just not going to go away and instead we may always have to work through them. In so doing the show had a wonderful sense of honesty about it complimented by an amazing piece of writting, fine acting and what I stil feel are great special effects that where certainly groundbreaking at the time.
I have 2 feelings towards Warners on the one hand im angry at them for they have done to such an amazing show (especially destroying S5 and pushing for A rated stars for a movie to be approved as opposed to allowing the stars of the show to be in it which is who we as fans and JMS etc want in the movie) but on the other hand I guess I have to be thankful to them to for supporting it with the cash to get as far as it did. Its a shame though they just cant see the potential it has movie wise not least because they have made a mint from the DVD releases. What amazes me is I really (and sorry for saying this to Firefly fans) but Serenity was absolute rubbish so how an earth that can be funded and B5 not amazes me. On the other hand it gives me hope to that if studios can and will fund crap like that to be made into movies then maybe just maybe a big beautiful B5 movie will see the light of day afterall. A few years ago it almost happend when the story was going to tell of the lost bits of the Shaddow War which would have ensured that war ended in a more satisfying way probably for fans who felt annoyed by the way the story ended for the reason i explained above. Whether or not a movie happens (and I so hope it will) I just want to thank JMS for giving me what he did and many people like me. It was an amazing vision of the future that was thought provoking and moving and it as a result for me at least is a classic by which all other sci-fi and tv in general is judged against. Thanks to, to all the actors (especially Mira Furlan and Claudia for being so hot :) and jerry doyle for being so cool! and the people behind the scenes that heped create the universe that allowed me to dream. One day I hope we are able to go back there on a huge cinema screen. Time will tell I for one will keep looking for light in the darkness and anyway as a B5 fan we are used to it right? All the way through the show it was threatend with being canx so 10 years on from the end of season 5 here we are still chatting about it so you never know. Again thanks to AICN for reading my mail and getting the news out there maybe it doing we let warners know we are here and jms and the rest know to keep fighting. JMS I belive says to live is to hope . I say Live your dreams! if we do both we may get closer to that movie! Look forward to chatting more on here about B5 and should anyone wish to drop me a line re it tazzzer@hotmail.com is where you can do exactly that! Thanks all! -
Too bad JMS dicked around with a bunch of movies that no one wanted to see. He kept putting off the Telepath War until he could do it right and now he ain't doing it at all. This was really the only story left to tell in the B5 universe. It's the one that everybody has been waiting for. I'm not sure that he'd still be able to do a good job with it, but he'd at least be able to get my money for it (unlike all the ranger and Lockley crap he's focused on since the end of the show). It was just so obviously the story to do that I still can't believe that JMS completely ignored it. All he needs is Garabaldi, Lyta and Bester and you have the potential for a kick-ass story.
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Aren't there other projects that also deserve finishing? I'm watching Jeremiah right now, and that never got a proper ending. B5 had a beginning, a middle, and an end, and it was lucky to have the run it did.
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Now that so many comic book based projects have been sucessful, both in film (IM, TDK, etc) and TV (Heroes), JMS REALLY needs to strike a deal to develop Midnight Nation into a kick-ass film and Rising Stars into a TV project that would rival The Stand.
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I really liked the first season of that show, does anyone know why it nosedived during the second? Was that according to plan or did a suit stick his nose into things? It definitely had the feel of a network inspired reboot.
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According to JMS, Showtime gave him hell and messed with the show. It's why JMS left and the show never got a 3rd season.
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+ the movies. I'd buy one. May be our best last hope.
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