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Does The Cartoon Network’s New, CGI, Tartakovsky-Free CLONE WARS Rock Real Hard??

I am – Hercules!!
For the ongoing TCA tour, The Cartoon Network screened for the first time an episode of “Clone Wars,” the Genndy Tartakovsky-free CGI-animated version coming to the Cartoon Network this autumn. Some linkage: James Hibberd at the Hollywood Reporter calls it “firmly impressive.” The Los Angeles Times’ Denise Martin says it “bests the traditionally animated mini-episodes (of the same title) that preceded it in terms of visuals alone.” Will Harris at Premium Hollywood calls it “awesome.” More to come ...

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Readers Talkback
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  • July 11, 2008, 3:26 p.m. CST

    nooooo

    by JeanLuc Dickhard

  • July 11, 2008, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Yesss

    by duct tape wallet

    You know it to be true!

  • July 11, 2008, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Clone Wars STILL??!

    by ThomasServo

    I'm pretty sure there's like one conversation that happened between two senators that we haven't seen yet. Other than that, can we move on? Thanks.

  • July 11, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST

    so then...

    by Bouncy X

    last i heard they had completely something like 50% of this series so does this mean the individual season sets will come out much faster and that there wont be many if any reruns when it airs on tv?

  • July 11, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Star Wars rules...

    by GrubStreeter

    ...whenever Lucas stays far, far away from it. Think of the good SW stuff: Empire, Knights of the Old Republic video games, Clone Wars cartoons - all cool stuff. But When Lucas wants to get involved, we get Jar Jar and CGI gophers. Oh wait...

  • July 11, 2008, 3:37 p.m. CST

    dead to me.

    by frankenfickle

    there's a scar on my heart in the shape of star wars. moved on.

  • July 11, 2008, 3:49 p.m. CST

    fuck this shit

    by stereotypical talkbacker

    i have decided that i HATE THE NEW CLONE WARS!!!! i haven't seen one frame of it, and all i know about it is based on the above information, but I HATE IT!! GEORGE LUCAS IS A HACK!! HE RUINED MY LIFE!! but i will still see it when it comes out so i can complain about it later and tell everyone how much it SUCKS!! and how anyone who likes it is RETARDED!!!!!

  • July 11, 2008, 3:49 p.m. CST

    Is there still a live action Star Wars show?

    by Zeegloo

    All I ask is that it is half as good as Battlestar Galactica.

  • July 11, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Who gives a fuck!

    by judge dredds fresh undies

    We've seen Anakin become Vader who gives a shit about some side story which should have been in episode 2.

  • July 11, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    looks great!

    by stereotypical talkbacker

    i love it already and i know hardly anything about it!! i shall champion this show and defend it with my LIFE!! star wars is AWESOME!!

  • July 11, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    meh

    by stereotypical talkbacker

    meh. might be good. looks kinda gay though.

  • July 11, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    TV Critic Tim Goodman at the Bastard Machine says...

    by Brayedar

    "As for the quality and entertainment value of it - sure, very high. It looks great (shot in HD). It's action-packed. I'm not sure your average adult is going to be watching this regularly, but I know my 5-year-old is going to flip for it." Read the rest of his thoughts here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=24&entry_id=28093

  • July 11, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Maybe this will make up for the prequels...

    by Playkins

    ...because if it does, I will forget they even existed.

  • July 11, 2008, 4:06 p.m. CST

    I've always hoped for a post ROTJ TV series

    by Reelheed

    something fireflyesque something not overly filled with jedi and sith. something lacking in fluffy/froggy critters. something actually good. but CGI fluffy frogs it is.

  • July 11, 2008, 4:24 p.m. CST

    lol @ lucas rocking anything.

    by alice 13

    besides his chair.

  • July 11, 2008, 4:29 p.m. CST

    YES YES YES!!!!

    by Transmetropolitan

    This is awesome news! I am so happy hearing such good reviews! Fuck the haters!

  • July 11, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    The original Clone Wars series was great

    by starmand

    I don't see how this style of CG can "best" the terrific animation in Tartakofsky's Clone Wars series. He's always had some of the most artful animation on TV, and this CG style just doesn't do it for me. But the same reporter who wrote that line also wrote that Asajj Ventress was a "brand-new villain." So what do they know?

  • July 11, 2008, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Are there screenshots?

    by punto

    I thought this thing was 3d.. how can they compare it to Tartakovsky's clone wars? (and say it looks better? bullshit)

  • July 11, 2008, 4:58 p.m. CST

    You know...

    by Pandas

    ... the look of this is starting to grow on me a bit. I think I read somewhere that George Lucas wanted it to remind people of the Gerry Anderson puppet shows like Thunderbirds and I have to say I think it does in a way. Something about the heads.

  • July 11, 2008, 5 p.m. CST

    I'm no hater...

    by ThomasServo

    Star Wars is still cool with me, but I'm sick to death of the fucking clone wars. How many times can I watch clone troopers shoot at robots? There's this whole epoch-spanning storyline going back thousands of years, and forward past the original trilogy, and we choose to focus on the same war(s) for the rest of eternity?

  • July 11, 2008, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Gendy should make that Samurai Jack Movie

    by Stormwatcher

    Cuz I need closure on the best action animated show ever. Also, either him or JJ needs to get the Dark Tower done.

  • July 11, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST

    IT'S THE CHARACTERS GEORGE!!!!

    by romanocc

    Doesn't Lucas get it that the reason the PT and all of this pre-Episode IV stuff will never be loved is that nobody gives a shit about the characters. Sorry George, but we CARED about Luke, Leia, and Han, and for 3 movies I didn't give a fuck about Anakin, Padme, although I cared alittle bit about ObiWan, but he was not the star. The Classic Star Wars movies were lightning in a bottle, they are so hard to duplicate, it should have ended with Jedi in 1983. Luke, Leia, Han, Vader, Lando, Chewy, R2, C3PO, Jabba, and The Emperor, and of course Alec Guiness lending credibility like Brando did to Superman. Those were classic characters, and those movies are still fun as hell to watch, plus they were well made movies using real locations, real sets, real models, and good story that everyone could relate to. The PT and this Clone Wars stuff just rings hollow and sure it is interesting to see how everything came to be when Episode IV rolls around, but I still say Lucas could have made 1 prologue movie that combined the highlights of Episode I, II, and III, and everyone would have loved it and Lucas and the fans could have moved on.

  • July 11, 2008, 5:39 p.m. CST

    romanocc

    by Mister C

    It wasn't the characters per say, it was the dialog they were givin, Obi wan's actor was the only one who could deliver those horrible lines well enough. Remember back to the scene in episode 2 when the jedi meet the senator again for the first time in a long time, it could have been a warm thing, but it was too formal "Perhaps with merely your prescence the mystery surrounding this threat will be revealed" that dialog, while artfully written, isnt warm. These characters dont appeal to the HUMAN audience. theres nothing to ground star wars into reality, theres no mix of ordinary with the extraordinary. Thats why the old movies were so cool, its because you saw something amazing, but you had something ordinary next to it to ground it, thats only because lucas couldnt afford to build or create EVERYTHING in his universe back in the 70s but now everything is "star warsey" even the fricken coffee tables and skies look alien. What makes the old movies great is that they showed you a GLIMPSE of something amazing, like the giant imperial walkers in ESB but had them in a real place, the planet hoth was covered with ice, it looked like what a place on earth would look like covered in ice... real mixed with amazing.....when everything in a movie is special...nothing is special

  • July 11, 2008, 5:43 p.m. CST

    i like this better

    by j2talk

    I like this version of the CloneWars better than the Tartakovsky version....

  • July 11, 2008, 5:47 p.m. CST

    also.....

    by Mister C

    a non real character can deliver certain types of lines better than a real actor because they can't look stupid saying something like "yipeee" or "his fate will be the same as ours" The charater is believed no matter how he acts because it is not judged the way an actor would be. So yes this movie will be more bareable than the prequel trilogy thanks to this, but i still think the characters needed to be relaxed and "human", althought their formal way of speaking is the way they SHOULD talk, its just not enjoyable entertainment wise. If the people arent invested in the characters the movie wont work, Nobody cares about a good looking whiny bitch boy who gets to become the most badass character ever made and gets to knock up a character being played by NATALIE PORTMAN....who the hell relates to that? im glad your mom is dead bitch......and also not make everything so "clean", dirtiness is another thing that grounds cgi into reality

  • July 11, 2008, 5:54 p.m. CST

    This could be good...

    by SlickyVonBoner

    If Lucas did not write or 'direct' any of it. I'm really stoked about the live-action series, lets cross our fingers that he keeps his nose out of that one too. The time of the rebellion is a more interesting timeline to me, than the clone wars. When I was a kid, I imagined the Clone Wars they talked about in episode IV was a huge limitless clone army controlled by the Emperor that overwhelmed the Jedi, wiping them out, taking over the galaxy by force. Fucking gay that Sidious controlled BOTH armies and had them fight each other, so he could pass votes and shit... Still can't get over how stupid that is.

  • July 11, 2008, 6:02 p.m. CST

    But does it have Shaak Ti kicking ass?

    by Chewtoy

    And is she cute as a bug? Because if not, what's the point?

  • July 11, 2008, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Mister C

    by romanocc

    I agree that the PT dialogue, including that ObiWan scene in Episode II is awful, but it is so hard to recreate the magic, and that is why I think the PT was never going to succeed for 3 movies. Just think of all the great movies we grew up with from the 70's/80's, all the characters are iconic. Christopher IS Superman, Marty McFly & Doc Brown are fun guys to take you through time travel, Indiana Jones is one of the coolest fucking characters to ever grace the screen, I could go on and on. Now as I said, those movies also were well crafted, they didn't cater to kiddies, they had quality actors, a good story, and didn't rely on CGI to tell the story. Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi were movies that stayed with you all summer after you saw them, you WANTED to be Luke, or Han, and every girl wanted to be Leia. Now your asking Lucas to craft another trilogy in the same universe with just as iconic characters, it just wasn't going to happen. Sure, if Lucas delegated alittle bit, the PT could have been better, but I try and watch these movies and they are hollow as can be, because I could give two shits about the characters, and the dialogue, though awful, is the least of my problem with the PT. I think we agree on the problems of the PT, I just always thought you can't go to the well too many times, and if Lucas walked away from SW in 1983, the mans reputation would still be god-like to fans like me, but the only thing he has done since 1997 is taint the name SW.

  • July 11, 2008, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Romanocc

    by Mister C

    agreed on several points, but honestly i think that their is SOOOO much potential in star wars but George Lucas is ruining it, i love the guy, dont get me wrong, he gave us something great, but he is not a good director, the storyline of the old trilogy is not very loosly taken from the dune trilogy, the first draft of star wars was basicially dune, borderline plagerizim(sp?) but oh well, lucas crafted this new story basically like the story of the roman empire, which is ok but there was no threat, no underdogs to root for, the bad guys wimps with puny alien leaders, we all respected the empire in the old days, the trade federation sucked, there isn't just ONE thing wrong with the movies, but their is one thing that are destroying them, George Lucas, i normally dont give in to the fads around here, but its true, Lucas is raping childhoods... not for money but because he wants to finish his masterpiece...money doesnt hurt tho =/ Someone else should have directed the movies, there was no humanity to be found in it.

  • July 11, 2008, 6:32 p.m. CST

    This will rule.

    by 18to88

    You'll watch every episode.

  • July 11, 2008, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Punto -- tons of screenshots

    by Termigoonie

    go to the imdb listing. there are 16 images there. i think this is gonna rock .... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185834/

  • July 11, 2008, 6:33 p.m. CST

    As for George Lucas

    by Termigoonie

    what if it turns out he actually is REALLY involed in this .....and it's "still" good. will that rattle your brains??

  • July 11, 2008, 6:34 p.m. CST

    No one rapes Childhoods...

    by apolo_sputnik

    Like Micheal Bay. <p> Give the Clone Wars a chance, yo.

  • July 11, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST

    I dont dismiss anything before seeing it

    by Mister C

    I loved the clone wars cartoons and i'll love this one.....btwI for one like Micheal Bay, He relies alot on action for the entertainment portion of his films and why is that so wrong? can't a person love the action in a movie as much as the story? Just because a song doesn't have lyrics doesnt make it a bad song, He has a DIFFERNT style of storytelling

  • July 11, 2008, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Needs a Squidbilly cameo...

    by thegreatwhatzit

    Nice crossover for everyone who is sick of STAR WARS.

  • July 11, 2008, 7:04 p.m. CST

    Kit Fisto

    by spud mcspud

    Best Star Wars porn name EVER!<P> Oh, and Michael Bay can make sweet sweet love to my childhood from here til fucking doomsday if it means no more Lucas-written STAR WARS. Yes, I know it's HIS saga, but this dead horse is too fucking decomposed to be flogged any more by this hack fuck. Like ThomasServo and SlickyVonBoner both said - the Clone wars is over, it's done, the cartoon pissed on the movies (which fucking IGNORED them - WTF was THAT shit about?!?!?) and now we all fucking despise the Clone Wars because Darth Gizzard got pussy feet at the last minute and decided to make it robots vs clones, 'cos - hey! - no-one REALLY dies in Star Wars. Which is why the guns became walkies in ET, and stormtroopers became clones and rebels became robots in the prequels. BECAUSE THAT GIZZARD FUCK PUSSIED OUT ON HIS OWN FUCKING LEGACY! FUCK YOU LUCAS! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUU!!!!!<P> Oh, it's SO ON!

  • July 11, 2008, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Amazing how Lucas is the only who fucks it all up!

    by Judge Briggs

  • July 11, 2008, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Mister C

    by romanocc

    See I disagree with you about Lucas being a bad director, I just think he is past his prime. Lets compare the OT vs PT timewise. The OT, he is this renegade director/producer in his late 20's who just got married to someone in the business with no kids and was trying to make it in this business. The Pt, you have this 55 year old guy with 3 kids who hadn't been involved in movies since the 1980's and was a billionare. The sad fact is Lucas did have the hunger to put out anything great, he was just using SW to pad his wallet and test new technology, hence why he keeps updating our beloved OT movies. This happens to most great directors, their best work is their early stuff, then once they succeed and they never have that eye of the tiger again. Has Coppola equalled his 70's movies like Godfather, Conversation, and Apocalypse? Has Depalma done anything good in the past 10 years? It is very rare you have a guy like Spielberg who still puts out quality this late in a career. I am not saying Lucas is near the director of those guys I mentioned above, but his first 3 movies were THX, American Graffiti, and Star Wars, pretty good for a guy in his 20's. The success of SW robbed us of what Lucas could have done, and it all just went to his head when he decided to do EVERYTHING on the PT, when even Coppola and Spielberg rarely do that on their movies.

  • July 11, 2008, 7:17 p.m. CST

    Paul Verhoeven

    by spud mcspud

    Now THERE'S a man who never compromised. Give that dude a Star Wars movie and watch it fucking fly!

  • July 11, 2008, 7:42 p.m. CST

    I don't know...

    by Logan-X

    I saw the trailer attached to Hellboy II today, and I just can't get excited for this thing. The animation is fine, but, the main problem with the Prequels in general is that there is no dramatic tension at all, because we know how it all ends. The same applies to this cartoon, and even more so, because you can see Ventriss battle Obi-Wan in the trailer, but they already showed how she died in the minisodes three years ago! I am dubious and apathetic about this at best.

  • July 11, 2008, 8:02 p.m. CST

    i cant wait....

    by j2talk

    personally, i love the idea behind this series...I mean come on, how the hell did all the Jedi vanish? they protected the galactic alliance for more than a thousand yrs and then where wiped out inside of 20? there is DEFINETLY a few tales to be told there....and we still got the live action series coming that is supposed to be bridging the gap between EP3 and 4........

  • July 11, 2008, 8:05 p.m. CST

    I mostly blame Lucas cause...

    by SlickyVonBoner

    he has such a tight reign on his franchise. Writing, directing, producing... I guess I might be a control freak too if it was my creation. And yes, I would be surprised if anything he makes in the future turns out to be good, but I hope he proves me wrong. Cause all I want is a Star Wars production as good as the originals (and Clone War shorts).

  • July 11, 2008, 8:09 p.m. CST

    Verhoeven.....overdone....

    by rben

    my problem with Verhoeven is the guy's stuff comes across to me as massively depressing and meanspirited...Robocop, Total Recall, Basic Instinct...soul less and basically saying that the human race has no hope. hell, life is like that when you look at our political situation, why would i want to see that in my fantasy films. That said, some could say that the new BG is grim but it also wrestles with the big issues and makes you think which is a good thing. I had the same problem with Pan's Labyrinth. Beautiful to look at, but massively a bummer. (i'll still see hellboy2 tomorrow though, duh..)

  • July 11, 2008, 8:10 p.m. CST

    oh, and Starship Troopers....

    by rben

    also sickening although the war propaganda shorts were kinda funny...

  • July 11, 2008, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Starship Troopers...

    by judge dredds fresh undies

    The whole things a fucking satire dude. And I thank god not all fantasy and sci-fi is milk and cookies like you seem to wish rben!

  • July 11, 2008, 8:38 p.m. CST

    give Fincher a STAR WARS film

    by Sir Loin

    Now THERE is something that would rock. Imagine if he'd been given EPISODE III with its darker themes? Man. Such a waste. As a guy who saw the original film in 1977, I can honestly say that Lucas completely lost it afterward.

  • July 11, 2008, 8:59 p.m. CST

    I CANT WAIT...

    by DoubleFantasy

    ...cause seeing a little bit of new star wars in any shape or form - makes my day just that little bit better.

  • July 11, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    re: Genndy's Clone Wars not fitting in

    by starmand

    I think I read somewhere that Lucas decided that Genndy's Clone Wars series wasn't canon, so they don't have to worry about inaccuracies like Ventress' death (as referenced by the poster above with way too many numbers in his name).

  • July 11, 2008, 9:19 p.m. CST

    Sir Loin, did you know Fincher DID work on SW?

    by half vader

    Was an assistant in the camera dept at ILM (from memory) on Jedi. Also did something on that Temple of Doom shot where the water shoots out over the cliff as I recall. <p> Maybe he'd do an ep of the live-action series - it's supposed to be more hard-edged (Lucas loved Band of Bros and Deadwood apparently). I'm sure there are plenty of good directors who'd love to do it if Lucas didn't micromanage them to death. I have my fingers crossed for that one. <p> This one just makes me think GL was annoyed everyone liked Genndy's stuff more than his prequels, so he's 'erasing' it with his own Clone Wars cartoon. Like how shirty he got that everyone liked Kirshner's film more than his.

  • July 11, 2008, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Ventress fell into a chasm in the cartoon

    by Rufferto

    I don't think that means she died. In the comic she's the one who gives Anakin his scars. She dies during that duel I think. Someone try to explain that one. Also I don't care what Lucas says is canon or not. The bloody end of the clone wars cartoon leads directly into ROTS. Screw him.

  • July 11, 2008, 9:25 p.m. CST

    When he can explain why

    by Rufferto

    Obi Wan tells Luke he met Anakin during the clone wars and that he was already a great pilot then, will be the day I care what he thinks is canon or not.

  • July 11, 2008, 9:48 p.m. CST

    If it can match that Mace Windu episode, I'm in!!!

    by ComputerGuy68

    That episode rocked! more of that please...

  • July 11, 2008, 9:51 p.m. CST

    4we8have

    by Rufferto

    He did become a jedi knight during the clone wars. The rank he was denied was Master.

  • July 11, 2008, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Post ROTJ shows? probably not

    by BizarroJerry

    The problem is, I believe Lucas considers anything on film or television to be part of HIS Star Wars. The "expanded universe" of novels, comics, etc he looks at as something else entirely. In his mind, the saga ends with Return of the Jedi. So, we won't see a filmed series set then because he thinks anything like that is his "real" Star Wars universe. That's why his only TV series are being set during the time of the films. <p>There are a number of SW comic series or novels that would transition well into at least a season of a cartoon series or a miniseries, and could be billed as the continuing story of Star Wars and would get viewers based on that alone. But, I don't think George wants to ever do that. Though he doesn't mind the money all of the other media brought him, and helped him to finance the prequels on his own dime... But, I don't wanna turn this into Lucasbashing.

  • July 11, 2008, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Rufferto... Kenobi didn't say he *met* him during the clone wars

    by MurderMostFowl

    LUKE: No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter. BEN: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved. LUKE: You fought in the Clone Wars? BEN: Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father. LUKE: I wish I'd known him. BEN: He was the best star-pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend. Which reminds me... Ben gets up and goes to a chest where he rummages around. As Luke finishes repairing Threepio and starts to fit the restraining bolt back on, Threepio looks at him nervously. Luke thinks about the bolt for a moment then puts it on the table. Ben shuffles up and presents Luke with a short handle with several electronic gadgets attached to it. BEN: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.

  • July 11, 2008, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Hey, MurderMostFowl...

    by BizarroJerry

    I think their conversation in ROTJ had the more questionable lines in it, continuity-wise.

  • July 11, 2008, 10:19 p.m. CST

    I should add...

    by BizarroJerry

    I still think this CGI series looks like it could be pretty good.

  • July 11, 2008, 10:33 p.m. CST

    That wasn't what I was refrencing.

    by Rufferto

    BEN I don't blame you for being angry. If I was wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't have been for the first time. You see, what happened to your father was my fault. Ben pauses sadly. BEN Anakin was a good friend. Luke turns with interest at this. As Ben speaks, Luke settles on a stump, mesmerized. Artoo comes over to offer his comforting presence. BEN When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has had terrible consequences for the galaxy.

  • July 11, 2008, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Although

    by Rufferto

    He mentions the clone wars in the comic adaptation of rotj. I was surprised actually reading that since it was so much more damning. That Lucas didn't want Anakin to be an adult when they first met in episode 1 to appeal to the kiddies. If Anakin is too old then Luke is ancient. hah hah. There are other things you can find as well that I'm sure Lucas would more then happily remove.

  • July 11, 2008, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Obi wan mentions also that as a jedi

    by Rufferto

    he personally was a bit rebellious. My feeling is that aspect of his personality was more given to Qui-Gon. I don't know, I just did not see Obi wan as much of a rebel in ep 1-3.

  • July 11, 2008, 11:06 p.m. CST

    If George Lucas raped you...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...then you paid for the experience! No one forced you retards to watch and then whine about the prequels. I, for one, enjoyed them more than much of the other regurgitated crap that came out during the past decade. <p>Besides, I have a sneaky suspicion that the prequels would have been better if the retards hadn't complained so much.</p> <p>Everyone knows that Jar-Jar would have been in Episode 2 and 3 if the talkback had been "rape" free. As is, I am secretly glad that you people hated the prequels. You know that George Lucas is smiling all the way to the bank, ur, Presidio. The prequels earned nearly $1 Billion in the US alone! </p> It seems that quite a few people must have gone back for repeat rapings? Either that -- or a bunch of 35+ year old losers just can't figure out why their childhood was so much better than their adulthood. It's called NOSTALGIA, people. If you wanted it with Star Wars, then buy the original films on DVD. Jeez.

  • July 11, 2008, 11:34 p.m. CST

    "Jean Luc Dickhard"

    by malificus

    Too fucking funny.

  • July 11, 2008, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Rufferto

    by malificus

    Obi Wan first met Anakin in EP1, and he WAS already a great pilot, he was the only human with reflexes sharp enough to Pod Race, and he won if you remember. Uughghhh..can't believe I know this stuff...

  • July 11, 2008, 11:46 p.m. CST

    Who cares??? We know how it eventually ends

    by Orionsangels

  • July 11, 2008, 11:48 p.m. CST

    lol

    by Rufferto

    pod racing. I don't believe Obi wan watched him race though. But yeah that's the only thing I can think of too. If you get any more specific i wont be able to refute you since I don't remember much of ep 1. ha ha

  • July 12, 2008, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Nice

    by redpassport

    You guys don't remember Anakin frikkin taking control of a fighter and blowing up a Trade Federation ship at the end of the movie? That's always stuck in my head as the moment I knew the prequels were going to suck.

  • July 12, 2008, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Nice

    by redpassport

    You guys don't remember Anakin frikkin taking control of a fighter and blowing up a Trade Federation ship at the end of the movie? That's always stuck in my head as the moment I knew the prequels were going to suck.

  • July 12, 2008, 12:51 a.m. CST

    Just like every sw videogame features a Hoth level....

    by SoupDragon

    Every prequel era story has a mandatory slew of battledroid fights. There's really nothing for fans to enjoy here Obi Wan and Anakin are overdeveloped and played out. Grevious, Dooku, Ventress? Who cares? Its not like anyone's going to win any of the many, many fights. Skip this show and read the Dark Horse Legacy comic instead. At least they're using a little imagination and originality to keep the saga going.

  • July 12, 2008, 12:55 a.m. CST

    I didnt but i guess I just dont think

    by Rufferto

    That a child is someone you would assume to be a "great pilot" and so obviously Obi wan's original speech was not written with that in mind. But Lucas tried to be clever and make it work I guess, anyway.

  • July 12, 2008, 1:11 a.m. CST

    Dont believe the hype: Its a Jedi mind trick. Its crrraaaaaapppp

    by wowsah156

    Dont pay to see the movie. Dont watch it on TV. YOU WILL JUST ENCOURAGE LUCAS! Dont do it. Old School Star Wars fans have had enough. I dont care . Let it rest with a bit of dignity now please.

  • July 12, 2008, 2:30 a.m. CST

    I just hate how the ep 1 stuff was all accidents and luck

    by half vader

    and fucking ridiculously convenient powerplant placement in the big donut ship. There's a big difference between a little exhaust port and just happening onto blowing the ship up at the end of a hangar. He wasn't a hero, it was luck. And I don't mean 'force' type "no such thing as", I mean lazy scriptwriting/no achievement-type luck. <p> Actually, I'm surprised I'm still bitter...

  • July 12, 2008, 3:56 a.m. CST

    The one big cop out in the prequel trilogy...

    by TheAllSeeingEye

    In a series that was completely laden with cop outs, was how GL chickened out of making Anakin a real villain.<br><br>For years i always remember the line "Vader, was seduced by the dark side of the force", and I always envisioned that he was a good man that got a taste and just became truly evil because he enjoyed it; the same way a heroin addict gets hooked.<br><br> Instead, we have this rediculous excuse that he's become a Sith apprentice because he's madly in love with someone and he wants them to "not die". Lamest story ever. Grow some balls.<br><br>Whoever said the best star wars stuff is made by anyone EXCEPT George Lucas got it bang on. I read a biography of the man about 10 years ago and he's quoted as admitting that he couldn't actually direct for shit and he was an "idea man". Then Lucasfilm must have filled with a team of Sycophants who pumped hot air into his jowls and inflated his ego.

  • July 12, 2008, 3:59 a.m. CST

    Oh and the the other thing that i hate is...

    by TheAllSeeingEye

    MIDICHLORIANS - I mean, What the fuck was he thinking?<br><br>I mean, the man creates an Iconic piece of wizardry, something magical, a religion of warriors who know how to use it and in ONE FUCKING LINE he completely destroyed the whole mythical feeling.<br><Br>Is he a scientologist now by any chance?

  • July 12, 2008, 4:01 a.m. CST

    WHERE IS MY BLUERAY ALIEN/ALIENS?!

    by CENOBITE

    I WANT NOW.

  • July 12, 2008, 5:59 a.m. CST

    messsa tryings to putz itsa outa meh miind

    by palewook

  • July 12, 2008, 6:43 a.m. CST

    AVATAR TEASER is HERE!

    by dioxholster

    check it out my friends: http://tinyurl.com/57b5j3

  • July 12, 2008, 6:47 a.m. CST

    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!!!!!

    by slone13

    <p>George Lucas raped my childhood. The prequels were terrible. Anakin wasn't a great pilot when met him. Vader wasn't truly seduced. Exhaust ports! Jar Jar! Blah fucking blah.</p> <p>Shut the fuck up and find some new shit to bitch about, you whiny cunts.</p>

  • July 12, 2008, 7:02 a.m. CST

    meh

    by 1st and only

    jesus, enough with the clonewars already....lame

  • July 12, 2008, 7:34 a.m. CST

    plant!

    by Gungan Slayer

  • July 12, 2008, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Too many Sith for the Timeline

    by DocMHumphrey

    TIMELINE CHANGE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>WHAT WE WANT TO SEE:<br><Br>NEW LOCALS: CHECK<br><br>NEW STORIES: CHECK<br><br>AWESOME LIGHTSABER BATTLES: CHECK<br><br>JEDI DOING COOL SHIT: CHECK<br><br>SPACE BATTLES: CHECK<br><br>ADVENTURE AND EXCITEMENT: CHECK<BR><BR>A STORY LINE THAT DOES NOT ENVOLVE EVERY FUCKING CHARACTER NO MATTER HOW CONVOLUTED: NOT SO FAST....<br><br>This is the problem that Star Wars is facing....why does everything center around Anakin...let's add a character that no one has ever heard of to Anakin...everyone will buy it! I have seen a preview of about 20 minutes of the new "Clone Wars" flick and it looked really promising....so why does it have to be in a time period that is EXHAUSTED. It was boring in the first place. It's too clean of a war and no one cared if either side won. Another thing, BATTLE DROIDS ARE NOT FRIGHTENING PERIOD. Cylons = Scary....Battle Droids = ROGER,ROGER OH NO JEDI! <br><br>Here's a question for the fanboys:<br><br>Why the fuck were the Separatists leaving the fucking Republic anyway? They stated no goals or mission. I know you'll say it was a dark side ploy, but damn, what kind of excuse is, "because they want to be separate!"<br><Br>There is just isn't any gravitas anymore.<br><br>Here's one last thought: What constitutes being "bad" anymore? It was said best in "Knights of the Old Republic"...Since when did being a "Sith" and "Hoodlum" become synonymous? I mean what the fuck? If you want to talk scary make fucking Anton Chigurh a fucking Sith. That would be something. Since Episode I everyone has been a Pokemon villian.

  • July 12, 2008, 9:46 a.m. CST

    Conflicted

    by Geekhaterssuck

    Yeah I'm really conflicted about this one hand I've loved Star Wars since I was 5, and I don't have the deep seething hatred for the prequels some do because I'm not so full of myself I don't think the movies sucked just because it's not my vision of how it should have happened. Get over it people. Anyway back on point this just seems like a rehash of stuff we've seen before. How many more times can we see hints of Anakin turning or Anakin vs Count Dooku or Yoda sensing the "veil of the dark side." That's my only concern with this. I know they could not get any of the actors to do it so live action is out but why not CGI or heck even standard animated versions of some of the novels? I would kill to see The Thrawn Trilogy or even the Dark Empire comic adapted in some form. Yeah Yeah I know Lucas has said that's a "seperate universe," bull, we wouldn't have any Star Wars comics or novels or anything of that nature if some of it wasn't going into his pocket or he didn't approve at least some of the overall vision of the expanded universe. He's just too arrogant to think anyone else can put Star Wars on the screen but him. Lot of great stories to be told post ROTJ. Make it happen.

  • July 12, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    I'm sure there's a novel covering this..

    by malificus

    But why exactly were the Sith wiped out? Were there ever more than two of them? I always thought that way back when the Sith were sort of the balancing religion with the Jedi, like they had their own schools and were as accepted in society as the Jedi and maybe at some point the Jedi became the golden boys and maybe manipulated the Republic into eliminating the Sith. I also thought that there should have been much more Anakin/Palpatine interaction, many more moments where Palpatine was working him, making him think the Jedi never trusted him (remember Mace giving him the thumbs down?actually the council got bullied into okaying his training by Obi Wan saying he'd train whether they okay'd it or not) and making him believe that Sith training wasn't a BAD way, just ANOTHER way, maybe have Anakin asking his teachers about the Sith training and have them over-react. Anakin's turning should have been the prime mover of Ep's 1-3, the stories should have been made more intimate and human, less grand scale space battle and more interaction. Of course, that would mean Lucas would have to come up with dense, yet intriguing dialogue and wring actual acting performances from his actors, the two things he is weakest at. Meh, just throw a jillion CGI droids at 'em (HATE those fucking 'roger-roger' boney-assed motherfuckers!!).

  • July 12, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Its going to be aimed at kids

    by Nabster

    in a fashion which will make it tough for everyone else to enjoy. No point in getting excited about this.

  • July 12, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Tales of the Old Republic

    by BrandLoyalist

    I'm not saying I won't go see the theatrical release and see every single epidode of the TV show (I obey), but it's true, this stuff has been covered. How about Yoda before he was head of the Jedi council, the Old Republic in its prime? Or maybe go back about 45 years -- I am DIEING to see what Qui-Gon Jinn was like when he was a little kid. What happened to him to make him so just?

  • July 12, 2008, 10:50 a.m. CST

    You bitch boy man children need to stop trivializing rape.

    by Grammaton Cleric

    If the fondness of your childhood memories are linked this closely to a movie series; you're pathetic.

  • July 12, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST

    MY FRIEND JUST QUIT LUCASFILM

    by g-ride9000

    we got drunk and says Lucas always bring 3-5 yes men to every meeting... that's enough to out vote any rational decision. Lucas said in one meeting, "There needs to be something cute and adorable every 20 minutes, so we can keep that young female demographic." WOW puts stuff in perspective.

  • July 12, 2008, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Now that we're starting to leave the Lucas era

    by ganymede3010

    I think Starwars will make a come back now that lucas isn't writing or directing the episodes. However, I'm sick to death of the Clone War era. I want to see Jaina & Jacen Solo, Master Leia, Mara Jade etc!

  • July 12, 2008, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Shouldn't this have been Episode 2?

    by messi

    I don't know, i thought the biggest event in the mythology warranted a live action story. fucking lucas. talk about money rape, rather tell the big story via comics, cartoons, novels and toys rather than the fucking movie itself.

  • July 12, 2008, 11:59 a.m. CST

    The more StarWars the better....

    by j2talk

    I for one am all for more Star Wars... The more the better, even from the beginning - Splinter of the Minds Eye, the first Star Wars Sequel-there have been inconsistencies ....but thru it all there have been a hell of a lot of good, fun, solid stories (certainly more than bad)....Hell I enjoyed the Han Solo books as much, perhaps even more than Star Wars and RoTJ...

  • July 12, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Omg people are criticizing the prequels!

    by Rufferto

    Kiss my ass if you don't like it. People who post that are no better. In fact you are a lot worse. At least I was trying to strike a conversation without being a bitchy, sardonic twit about it. <p>I know it makes you feel real big inside pretending how superior or more apathetic you are to complete strangers. Please continue. It's hysterical.</p> <p>Better yet, go find another topic you don't care about. Tell us how boring it is and how much you don't care about it rather then having anything interesting to say. You guys are just too cool for the internet!</p> :)

  • July 12, 2008, 1:21 p.m. CST

    by Rufferto

    also the only people who mentioned rape was the trolls.

  • July 12, 2008, 1:37 p.m. CST

    I'm looking forward to watching it.

    by Rakafraker

    I think that it'll be even more enjoyable now that GL is willing to let others take charge. No doubt he'll always be the 'idea guy', being exec. prod. et al. <p>There were a lot of things that did vex me about the PT, but I still thought it was better than about 70% of the crap Sci-fi out there. <p>Live action, baby! That's what I'm on the edge of my seat for. It would be nice to see GL's promise of a darker storyline and continued restraint come to pass.

  • July 12, 2008, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Star Wars should die!!!

    by alienindisguise

    It's sci fi of the worst kind...boring as fuck with repetitive characters and lame plot lines

  • July 12, 2008, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Oh God, trying to find inconsistencies in the prequels?

    by I Dunno

    That's so 2002. <p>"Hey uh, why didn't Darth Vader recognize 3PO on Bespin and buy him a beer?"</p><p>And yes, Anakin was a great pilot when Obi Wan first knew him. He was the only human who could fly those pod things. He also destroyed the droid control ship (no one knew it accidental. What more do you want from the kid?</p>

  • July 12, 2008, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Lucas not directing or writing?

    by tylermo

    I seem to recall that he "may" be directing and writing the first season's worth for the new live action program. I may be recalling that incorrectly, however. There were writers hired from the U.S., U.K., and Australia for the live action I believe. But, there's still some old story I remember about him doing at least some writing and directing.

  • July 12, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Lucas (and even Speilberg) will never make such movies again...

    by Chewtoy

    They will never hit the heights witht this kind of material that they did in their youths for one simple reason: They're no longer making such movies for themselves. They make these things now for their kids, or the fans, or simply the money. Hellboy 2 was a good film (not a great film by any stretch) simply because there's no doubt it was what Del Toro wanted to make. Speilberg still does these kinds of movies now and again because it's expected of him... I'm sure he has a fine time doing the Indy movie, for instance, but there's no deep passion there. Thankfully, he still manages to find projects that fuel his interest and put his talent to use. If Lucas still has any talent, he hasn't exercised it on something made for himself in a good long while.

  • July 12, 2008, 3:45 p.m. CST

    I just want a whole movie about that green jedi girl

    by samsquanch

    Whatever her name is. You know, the one with the head tentacles who dies on the flower planet named after Fallujah. Other than that, I'm with the 'move on' crowd. It's a rich universe, could we see something other than little Anni's fucking face for five minutes?

  • July 12, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    malificus, brandloyalist

    by samsquanch

    I feel the exact same way. I always thought it would be a great twist if it were revealed that the Jedi and Sith at one point were competing, but equal religions, and that at some point the Jedi totally screwed them. That would make all the talk of 'revenge' and all that actually make sense for once, and humanize an otherwise painfully one-dimensional cast of villains. It might be cool to have Yoda revealed as the keeper of this secret, even though he's not quite old enough to have been around for the Sith getting fucked over, he could be instrumental in keeping the truth hidden from players like the Skywalkers and Jedi council. Show Yoda as more of a master manipulator, a politician of the same order as Palpatine. BTW- I may have misunderstood the 'always two there are, no more, no less' line, but I thought that meant that you'll never find just one Sith, or three or seven hanging out, but that if you see one, you know there's another one hanging around somewhere, but they only ever work in pairs. It kind of doesn't make sense that there 'can be only two', since while Palpatine was training Maul he was also using Dooku to build the army... etc etc etc.... I just fucking nerded myself out. <p> Why are the Geek's ideas always better than Lucas'?

  • July 12, 2008, 4:10 p.m. CST

    samsquanch

    by spud mcspud

    "Why are the Geek's ideas always better than Lucas'?"<P> Put simply: because 99% of the Geeks are in the same position Lucas was at when he made the first movie: young (ish), untested, broke or not far from it, and unburdened by either the weight of expectation (real or imagined) or the burdens of later life that make you a toothless pussy, trying to soften edges instead of making them sharper. Perfect example of this is Greedo vs Han in the cantina scene: hungry young renegade director Lucas shows Solo shoot Greedo under the table in cold blood. Han is cocky, underhand, cold-blooded, sneaky... and likeable thanks to Harrison Ford, who can do cocky and laconic in his sleep. Contrast that with Lucas-in-1997; stands to lose billions (he thinks) if his new prequels tank, has a family he now doesn't want to expose to edgy concepts like a cold-blooded, underhand hero; he's pussied out, taken the easy road, re-examining his gut instincts as a maverick film-maker with focus groups and committee-plotting and believing that he has to fit every word to one demographic or another in order to find an audience. Totally abandoned his own gut-feeling talent to gamble of committees, focus groups, demographics, to tinker with his new SFX at the expense of great writing, to listen to yes-men instead of REAL critics, friends and/or fellow film-makers. STAR WARS lost its teeth when Lucas lost his hunger - and that hunger is ALWAYS lost with great, galaxy-spanning success.<P> The ONLY way to save STAR WARS as a franchise now is for Lucas to sketch out a very rough outline of the story then turn it over, lock stock and barrel, to OTHER writers and film-makers - AND FUCKING LEAVE THEM TO IT. Just walk away until the premiere. Keep an eye on SFX if you must, but leave it the fuck alone until it's done. MAYBE it might turn out better than prequels if so. And some of the previous posters are right: the only decent Star Wars stuff out there right now is the Dark Horse LEGACY series. Cade Skywalker and the gang would make one hell of a TV series to follow - and I don't expect Lucas' show to be a tenth as cool as that series.<P> He's GOING TO FUCK THIS UP, people. Don't allow yourselves to believe anything different...

  • July 12, 2008, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Who Framed Anakin Skywalker?

    by thegreatwhatzit

    It's animation! Exploit the medium to draw fans who are now bored of STAR WARS to the point of somnolence. Think ROGER RABBIT and invite the participation of crossover characters like Aqua Teen and Spongebob Squarepants. Popeye could be cast as the officiator of Jabba's white slave ring (he lures hotties--like Tex Avery's "Red Hot Riding" girl, Veronica Lodge and Scooby Doo's Daphne--to an airborne pirate vessel. Ample nudity!). But, then again, Lucas would have to pay for the loan of these franchise characters. What was I thinking? Forget the whole thing. Hell, I would have preferred new episodes of FUTURAMA (by the way, the second FUTURAMA movie--BEAST/BACKS--isn't bad at all, it evokes the original series. The film film, exempting the opening 10-minute exposition, really blew).

  • July 12, 2008, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Those Jedi aren't so very perfect..

    by malificus

    ..there's a reason the Sith are all but wiped out and also diametrically opposed to the Jedi, who actually go to war for "the man". Oh yeah, powerful they may be, but many a bleeding heart has come up with the most oppressive ideas in history. I have always maintained, and I guess I'll keep screaming it from the rooftops until I get one "Right On!" echoed back that Lucas never originally intended to do multiple Star Wars films, if he had he would have started with Episode One (give me a single rational reason you'd do episode 4 first? and NOT that bullshit he lays out that it made more sense to start there. Yeah, if you're a RETARD), especially given that early on he stated that the episode numbers were just to capture that Buck Rogers serials-type vibe he grew up with. At the end of Episode 4 the story is told, the Empire put all it's eggs in one basket and lost to a virgin farmboy, nothing left but for the rebellion to mop up the straggling strings of the Imperium and live happily ever after. Boba Fett puts the lie to his lips that he EVER had any greater scheme in mind when he started, just look at how he threw that character away in the most undignified way imaginable then turned around and made Jango so integral later on. He's had to dump out an entire huge canon and he simply never was up to the task. The only true George Lucas Star Wars movie was a New Hope, everything after that was George desperately clutching at straws and trying to build a mansion from a tar hut. And correct me if I'm wrong but at the end of A New Hope when Vader got bumped by his wingman in the trench and careened off into deep space they never showed his craft righting itself and escaping. For 'proof?' I cite the original novelisation which said something about Vader spinning off into the depths of the suchandsuch galaxy making it seem as if that was as good as dead. Anyone? Anyone at all?

  • July 12, 2008, 4:50 p.m. CST

    What I mean to infer about Vader is..

    by malificus

    ..that ORIGINALLY they didn't have that little clip of Vaders ship righting itself, though I know I remember being flabbergasted when I saw that later, like a little sneak that only I noticed, I feel like Shatner on that plane when the stewardess goes: "The pilot sees it too, we just can't panic anyone." and Shatner goes "Oh! He sees it to..." then it dawns on him that she's bullshitting him and he sits back in his seat and clams up. Clamming up....

  • July 12, 2008, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Correction

    by thegreatwhatzit

    The FIRST "Futurama" movie really blew. The sequel (comparatively) kicks ass, i.e. not great but a huge improvement over BENDER'S BIG SCORE. The End.

  • July 12, 2008, 6:14 p.m. CST

    I still don't understand

    by kwisatzhaderach

    why The Phantom Menace wasn't about an Anakin the same age as Luke in New Hope, who is recruited by Obi-Wan to fight in the Clone Wars after Obi-Wan is impressed by his piloting skills. Anakin could have raced a rival in Beggars Canyon along the lines of Bob Falfa in American Graffiti. Ditch the pod race, ditch young 'Annie', ditch Qui-Gon Jinn. The same actor would play Anakin in all three films. Casting Anakin so young in Mencae was fatal. What was Lucas thinking?

  • July 12, 2008, 6:51 p.m. CST

    by I Dunno

  • July 12, 2008, 6:53 p.m. CST

    You're remembering it wrong, malificus

    by I Dunno

    Vader's ship "righted" itself in the original version.

  • July 12, 2008, 7:27 p.m. CST

    Kwisat- oh, that fucking kid.

    by samsquanch

    I've always maintained that the worst thing about Phantom Menace wasn't Jar Jar, it wasn't even the baffling, striking, throwback racism, it was that fucking kid. Obviously, it's not that little actor's fault, he was what, 7? No, again, just like always, it was Lucas. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I heard that the first prequel was going to focus on Darth Vader as a young slave boy on Tatooine, I was really interested. I imagined a sort of dark, brooding, coldly intelligent survivor with an angelic face, not this obnoxious, spoiled little brat. Look at the kid who played young Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins, or even that kid from the 6th sense, little kids can do dark and brooding quite well. What a waste.

  • July 12, 2008, 7:38 p.m. CST

    malificus- The Jedi totally had it coming.

    by samsquanch

    It's weird, but everything that comes out of a Sith's mouth in the movies, including the original trilogy, kind of makes sense. The Jedi were decadent and corrupt, any law enforcement group that doesn't know it's being manipulated and infiltrated for the sole purpose of wiping them out doesn't not deserve the mantle of authority it claims. The Jedi are supposed to commune with the Force, right? HOw could the not know that they were dealing with the greatest Sith lord in a thousand years right under their noses for years and years? Sure, sure, hard to see the Dark Side is and all that, but COME ON. They got played hard. And, excuse me, Obi Wan Kenobi, but you go check out a clone army being bred for ten years for some war that wasn't even an idea ten minutes ago, and you don't bat an eyelash? You don't investigate? It doesn't seem a little sketchy to you? The entire Republic, including the Jedi, shakes their collective heads and say "How convenient!" When war breaks out? Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, I'm sure it was a huge surprise when the clones turned out to have another agenda. What a shocker. I'm sure a lot of us by the end were totally rooting for the Sith. I know I was.

  • July 12, 2008, 7:58 p.m. CST

    kwisatz

    by Darkling

    <p>Lucas's problem was apparently that he didn't have enough plot for three movies. So he essentially made the first movie into 'backstory' (covering Palpatine's rise to power), and made up the whole Naboo plotline to pad out the running time. That way he could cover the Clone Wars in two movies instead of three. <p>I read a free e-book called 'The Secret History of Star Wars', which covers the development and evolution of the six movies' scripts. It's ostensibly an expose of the fact that Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were originally conceived of as separate characters. (Well, duh.) But it also contains a lot of interesting tidbits and insights into Lucas's thought processes along the way, and a lot of the lies he's made up and clung to over the years. <p>tinyurl.com/3mufku <p>Warning: the author is also a bit of a prequel apologist, and there's a *lot* of material to wade through. But it's well-researched, and the facts presented can stand for themselves. I certainly found it an interesting read.

  • July 12, 2008, 9:02 p.m. CST

    The Prequels had a helluva lot more plot than the Originals

    by I Dunno

    Don't get me wrong, I like the OT better but as far as plot goes, part of the reason why we didn't get to see a lot of the Clone Wars in the prequels is because there was too much plot to cover. Now whether you liked the story or not has nothing to do with the fact that plot-wise, the PT had a lot more going on. <p> Even though Empire was the best movie of the 6, there was a whole lot that had nothing to do with the main story. </p><p>So you can blame the PT for bad dialog, wooden acting, too much CGI and Jar Jar but lack of a plot isn't one of them.</p>

  • July 12, 2008, 9:28 p.m. CST

    "Anikin was denied becoming a Jedi Knight whichwould mean that h

    by Voice O. Reason

    He was already a Jedi Knight in ROTS. They denied him the rank of Master, not the rank of Knight. Knights can have padawans (i.e. Obi-Wan and Anakin).

  • July 12, 2008, 9:55 p.m. CST

    I love the whiners....

    by j2talk

    people seem to forget that Star Wars is Lucas baby- if you dont like what he has done with it-TO BAD, create your own universe and lets see what you can come up with... however as for the current state of StarWars, Lucas has essentially stepped away from things -sure the books, comics and even the new series-All of it has to be approved by lucas film, but for the most part what Lucas did was to draw up a "bible" and an outline of a timeline and said these are the key events go to it...and as a result we've once again got some pretty good stories

  • July 12, 2008, 10:44 p.m. CST

    Oh Christ...

    by samsquanch

    Thanks for the input j2talk. <p> By the way, learn how to spell the word 'too', especially if you're going to put in in caps.

  • July 12, 2008, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Sorry, should have been clearer

    by Darkling

    <p>Sorry, I didn't mean that each prequel movie didn't have enough plot. I should have been clearer. I meant that the overall plot of the prequel trilogy would have been stretched thin over three movies, based on what George knew about them. 'Obi-Wan meets Anakin, they fight in the Clone Wars, Anakin gets seduced by the dark side of the Force, Obi-Wan and Anakin fight, Anakin becomes Darth Vader, the end'. <p>I mean - take Episode 1 out of the mix, and nothing much changes. With very little tinkering, the next two prequels could work just as well without Episode 1. Assume that Obi-Wan and Anakin have already met. Assume that Palpatine is already Chancellor. Assume that Padme is someone Anakin rescues in Episode 2, while he's a Jedi. <p>Episode 1 made very little contribution to the overall storyline of the PT. I agree that starting with Anakin as a young adult would have been much more interesting.

  • July 13, 2008, 1:12 a.m. CST

    Star Wars lol

    by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz

    Fuck Star Wars. Fuck George Lucas. Ruined legacy. It's total garbage.

  • July 13, 2008, 1:39 a.m. CST

    Force Unleashed

    by NinjaChampion

    I'm actually more excited about the storyline in the new video game. The Clone Wars have already been explored quite a bit. And do we really need to see more clones fighting robots? We already know exactly how the whole thing ends. Will this cgi cartoon explore new territory and ignore episode 3?

  • July 13, 2008, 2:53 a.m. CST

    Looks fun.

    by JKrow21

    No joke

  • July 13, 2008, 6:31 a.m. CST

    Darkling

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Totally agree, Episode I seems superfluous to the Star Wars saga. I actually have that Secret History of Star Wars downloaded (it may even have been you that pointed me to it on a previous talkback), I'll have to give it a proper read-through.

  • July 13, 2008, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Episode I wasted too much time

    by romanocc

    Episode I's biggest problem is it didn't set all the relationships in motion so Episode II could have gotten right to the story. ANH set all the relationships up so ESB starts right in the thick of the plot and it is a 2 hour thrill ride with very little set-up. Episode I should have been about ObiWan/Anakin(20 year old) relationship, their friendship, their bickering, their battles together. Episode I should have given the hints of Padme/Anakin falling in love, and should have shown the roots of Anakin/Palpatine becoming friends. If all that were established, Episode II could have been a 2 hour thrill ride, instead of taking the first 20 minutes to setup the Obiwan/Anakin relationship and then taking the first hour to show Anakin/Padme falling in love. Because of the limited screentime between Anakin/Obiwan in Episode II, Lucas had to dedicate MORE time in Episode III, hence the first 25 minutes, where you finally get to see ObiWan/Anakin in action. Thus leaving Episode III with the task of establishing the Anakin/Palpatine relationship, and thus leaving only an hour in Episode II & an hour in Episode III for the plot of the movies and that is why they come off as rushed, especially Episode III where it seemed like Lucas was doing a paint by numbers of plot points we had to see before Episode IV: Anakin turns, check! Order 66, check! Build Vader, check! Shove off the kids to Alderran and Tatooine, check! Force Ghost explanation, check! The End...

  • July 13, 2008, 7:31 a.m. CST

    Clone Wars redux

    by Cobbio

    The problem I have with these new "Clone Wars" cartoons is that the Clone Wars already happened. We've seen them. Tartakovsky's vision of them rocked the DVDs with passion, creativity, violence, and badass visuals, so why, exactly, did Lucas decide we need ANOTHER rendition of a story we've already seen?<p> Oh, that's right. Because he's a fallen filmmaker who's more interested in product placement than consistent quality.<p> Seriously, can you believe they're cramming another "Clone Wars" down our throats? We already know what happened. Everybody does. Tartakovsky gave us the best thing Star Wars ever produced. Lucas making another "Clone Wars" is like someone at WETA producing a new "The Two Towers," even though we've already seen that story. It's redundant. And dull. And horribly, horribly corporate.<p> I think Lucas got his panties in a bunch because Tartakovksy's vision was so badass that Lucas wanted take control and up the ante, rather than nod, admire, and say, "Well, there's the Clone Wars. How else can I expand my story?"<p> And barrelling down main street in Overkill City this summer is a new "Clone Wars" movie. More McDonald's Happy Meal tie-ins. More product placement deals. More more more.<p> Enough, George. Please stop sucking your own tiny dick.

  • July 13, 2008, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Cobbio and I Dunno

    by malificus

    Cobbio hit it on the head with Lucas and Tartakovsky's take on the Clone Wars, it shriveled his sphincter to see someone handle his property better than him and THAT'S the whole motivation for the new series. He's like that guy in the group that hears a kick-ass one-liner by a group member and goes:"And then..." and proceeds to bleed every bit of humor from the moment by spewing out his unfunny addition to something that was fine as it was. "If you think THAT was cool wait'll see what I'M gonna do." Also, I Dunno, don't mean to be a dog with a bone but did you see Star Wars during it's first initial theatre run back in the 70's? That's when I saw it and I swear Vader careened off helpless and never recovered, it says so in the book. I know that any print you watch now has that little bit in it, but I SWEAR...

  • July 13, 2008, 9:57 a.m. CST

    Make you an offer Georgie-Porgie..

    by malificus

    ..you give me any written material you have on Episodes 7-9, concept work, scribbled notes on Famous Dave's napkins, whatever, give me command at the ranch, and I'll deliver you three of the most kick-ass Star Wars movies ever to see the light of day. Only one condition: you only get to say yeah or nay when the whole damn thing is done. Like Han used to say with his crooked-assed grin: "Trust me..."

  • July 13, 2008, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Got to say....

    by j2talk

    that I am one of those that will see anything Star Wars-from Ep one-hated the kids acting, to the Tartakovsky's Clone Wars-hated the art, story line was ok...but thru it all I've enjoyed the ride....it probably helped that I read the novelazations as they usually filled in the blanks a bit...And I'll continue to watch and read whatever else they bring out....and I doubt that I am the only one...people whine, complain and think that they could do better, but as of yet I havent seen anything that has come close-save maybe the new BSG.......naw that is SciFi morality play not Space opera.....

  • July 13, 2008, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Re:Vader never recovering....

    by Rameses

    That's an interesting comment Malificus.I saw the original Pre-New Hope version of Star Wars at the cinema several times , and it was only in a re-release several years later that I actually noticed he *recovered* from the spin.Now I'm not so sure, if a few seconds were added .If so, it was the first signs of special edition tinkery.Damn George he's messed around with these films so much , that no ones sure what's what anymore!

  • July 13, 2008, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Rameses

    by malificus

    I had the similar "WTF?' experience myself but if my obliterated long-term memory mis-serves me it was way before the special edition nonsense started, I want to say it was added around the time that Empire was being made or even shortly after Star Wars became such a mega-hit, perhaps to leave room for the sequels that were then being demanded. I consider this one of the most damning pieces of evidence in my "one-shot Star Wars" repetoire, and I curse to think that I had all three of those Star Wars novels in a slipcase and god only knows what happened to those. BUT, if anyone out there has the original Star Wars novel (which was rumored to have been ghost written AFTER the movie was made despite Lucas's insistance at the time that the novel was written by him BEFORE the script)you can plainly read where it says that Vader's fighter went careening off into the depths of the ? galaxy and makes some mention of where no one has ever returned or something to that effect, basically closing the book on Vader while leaving the POSSIBILITY of survival intact. No recovery though, goddammit, I remember, no recovery!!

  • July 13, 2008, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Rameses / Malificus

    by spud mcspud

    I had a similiar experience - pre-1997 Special Edition, I could have sworn I remember a scene where, in the cantina at Mos Eisley, when Greedo was threatening Han Solo, Solo shot Greedo in cold blood before greedo could get off a shot. I was only 5 when Star Wars came out, so I'm deifinitely not sure - but that sounds better than Greedo missing his quarry from, oh, two feet away? Why would Jabba hire such a waste of fucknig space? I'm pretty sure Han shot first... that would make MUCH more sense from a characterisation point of view... Anyone else remember that? ;D

  • July 13, 2008, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Rameses / Malificus (again)

    by spud mcspud

    You're right about the Vader fighter righting itself - I definitely remember the original ending with Vader's TIE Fighter spinning off into space. When you watch the newer versions, the scene where the TIE rights itself, it's just an insert shot of Vader's TIE flying straight away from the camera - no spin righting itself, just a shot of the spin, then cutaway (I think to Luke in the X-Wing, or possibly Han in the Falcon) then a cut back to the TIE flying straight. A right hatchet job of an edit - but then, I don't expect a lot from old George "Alzheimers" Lucas these days, the spent old fuck...

  • July 13, 2008, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Malificus/Spud Mcspud....

    by Rameses

    I've just watched the bonus disk that came with theDvd release of the special edition of New Hope and is supposed to be the *original* theatrical release of Star Wars without any of George's pot release tinkerings.... and that has Vader's fighter recovering.Considering this vesion does seem intact{It doesn't even have the * A New Hope* prefix before the opening text crawl}then perhaps Darth's Ship did always recover..and we are suffering from some sort of collective memory mailfuntion or George was upto his tricks a lot earlier than anyone realised!

  • July 13, 2008, 6 p.m. CST

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Count me in as someone who thought Vader's TIE fighter never recovered and kept spinning. I actually went on to theforce.net boards a few years ago and asked if Vader recovering was always the case and someone replied that it was and I just left it at that.

  • July 13, 2008, 7:37 p.m. CST

    The novelisation, etc

    by Darkling

    <p>kwisatz: It wasn't me who recommended the book to you (I haven't mentioned it before), but it does shed some light on George's rather cluttered and higgledy-piggledy creative process when writing Episode 4 and the prequels. I don't think it does anything to address the Anakin/Vader 'controversy', but there's a lot of fascinating information to be gleaned along the way. <p>I agree with romanocc that Eps 2 and 3 suffered from not having the characters and relationships already grounded. If Episode 1 *had* introduced the main characters (as adults) and established their dynamics, the next two movies could then have *taken* those relationships somewhere, and developed them. <p>Episode 3 in particular would have benefited from a much closer relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan that the audience was already invested in, rather than shoehorning in a scene at the start to compensate for the characters' almost antagonistic relationship in Episode 2. <p>malificus: The novelisation of ANH was ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster and released in 1976. At that stage, George was already planning Splinter of the Mind's Eye as a potential low-budget film sequel to ANH (or it may have been already written; I'm unsure), so it was obvious that Vader was supposed to survive. <p>However, the novelisation leaves Vader's fate unclear: <p>"A small explosion followed as two huge fins of the paralleling Tie (sic) fighters intersected. Screaming uselessly into his pickup, the wingman fluttered toward the near trench wall. He never touched it, his ship erupting into flame before contact. <p>"To the other side, Darth Vader's fighter began spinning helplessly. Unimpressed by the Dark Lord's desperate glower, various controls and instruments gave back readings which were brutally truthful. Completely out of control, the tiny ship continued spinning in the opposite direction from the destroyed wingman--out into the endless reaches of deep space." <p>It wouldn't surprise me if George *did* add that scene of Vader's fighter flying straight into space to make it clear that Vader survived, after the fact.

  • July 13, 2008, 8:07 p.m. CST

    whiney fans raped george lucas's adulthood

    by LarryTheCableGuy

    but yeah the pt's weren't the greatest, yet they still entertain me enough to say my childhood was not raped. yay!

  • July 13, 2008, 8:19 p.m. CST

    I have to say that I condone beyond the clone wars feelings

    by RockLobster800

    having just seen the trailer for the film in the cinema before hand you cant help but wonder,if theyre using animation to expand things beyond the films, why focus on the clone wars? Obviously Lucas knows that he shouldnt mess with the original trilogy and clearly he dare not, so the clone wars seems to be the go-to place...I have to say though ROTS was pretty good-but the guy needs to go beyond the prequels here...adapt Emire Of The Sun, anything,but COME ON!

  • July 13, 2008, 9:36 p.m. CST

    it bests the the original clone wars by visuals?

    by Prossor

    hear that guys? fuck story or characters, visuals look BETTAR!!!

  • July 14, 2008, 5:38 a.m. CST

    Darkling

    by malificus

    Thanks for the novel quote, I had forgotten that Alan Dean Foster was supposed to have ghost written that, and I remember I did read Splinter but I remember nothing about it. But say, doesn't the fact that Lucas considered using that as a cheap sequal kinda shoot holes in his 9 episode pre-planned scheme?

  • July 14, 2008, 6:03 a.m. CST

    I am in agreement with what Lucas ORIGNALLY said.

    by beastie

    That the Anakin/Luke Skywalker story is/should be over. Why don't they do Knights of the Old Republic or Legacy or maybe Shadows of the Empire?

  • July 14, 2008, 6:42 a.m. CST

    malificus

    by Darkling

    <p>Hell yes. The e-book I mentioned goes through all of the early treatments and drafts of ANH, and shows how George was making it all up as he went along. At various stages in history, he's said Star Wars was supposed to be 12 episodes, then six episodes, then nine episodes, then six episodes again. <p>It's actually interesting to read snippets of contemporary interviews from the book and see how determined he was to give the impression that he had the entire 'saga' planned out from the beginning. All the praise for the mythic underpinnings of ANH was probably going to his head. <p>If ANH had bombed, he was willing to continue the saga in any way possible. He originally saw Star Wars as a *literal* serial, with each movie telling its own self-contained story (and potentially going on for twelve movies).

  • July 14, 2008, 6:48 a.m. CST

    I'm not sure how a cartoon can "rock"

    by A G

    but ANOTHER Clone Wars story is completely unappealing. This is becoming like Dr Who where every fucking series turns out to be about the Daleks anyway.

  • July 14, 2008, 8:56 a.m. CST

    A G - Doctor Who

    by spud mcspud

    Russell T Davies = George Lucas. In EVERY way.<P> Neither of them can take criticism. Both treat fanboys with more contempt than any other viewer demographic. Both surround themselves with "yes men" who daren't tell them when something sucks in case it costs them their jobs - so we end up with mediocre-to-shitty products. Both seem to enjoy winding up their critics on internet forums. Both cannot write for shit, but have interesting ideas and concepts that could be - and SHOULD BE - developed by way more talented writers than they. Both don't know when to quit - and, by the looks of it, both have a "scorched earth" policy whereby they ruin their sagas when they leave. JOURNEY'S END was almost as bad as REVENGE OF THE SITH... but not quite. There was only one truly great moment in the SW prequels, and that scene ended when Obi-Wan bisected Maul - the only truly scary character in the prequels.<P> But yeah - as RTD's Who always ends up involving the Daleks, Lucas will keep feeding this Clone Wars shit down our throats, until someone in LFL with balls tells him the truth (that everything he's done since 1999 has sucked balls - get in other writers and directors, dammit!) or until he comes to his senses. Or dies. None of the above will improve the saga one fucking iota anyway.<P> Like the man way above here says: there is now a scar on my heart in the shape of Star Wars. I have only bitterness where once there was fan-worship. It's pretty much dead to me too. Fuck you, Lucas. Fuck you and your adulthood to a twitching, nightmarish creative death.

  • July 14, 2008, 9:19 a.m. CST

    sometimes fanboys should be treated

    by j2talk

    with contempt......as evidenced by threads about Star Wars, Indy and StarTrek....As SOME so called Fanboys are unwilling to accept what a properties creator (or those put in charge of a franchise) have brought forth, as it doesn't fit in with the ideas that they had for it and feel let down because it isn't what they would have done...and that somehow there desires are more valid than the creators... a sad fact those who can do,those who can't complain

  • July 14, 2008, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Re:Darth's recovery.....

    by Rameses

    I'm still not giving up on this.I've been looking at the shooting scripts for the original Star Wars and the last scene for Vader is: 476. EXT. DARTH VADER'S TIE FIGHTER. Vader's ship spins off into space. So,it looks like there was no recovery ,at filming stage anyway.The theory that George changed the shot ,sometime between the films original release and it's first post ESB re-release ,still holds up!As for this animated series ,visually it just looks like a ps2 game cut-scene {with an odd inconsistent feel the machines and aliens , seem a lot less stylised than the puppety humans}And as everyone has said, setting it during the clonewars,kind of kills any interest in seeing it.More jedi chopping -up useless robots ..no thankyou

  • July 14, 2008, 11:40 a.m. CST

    So...for the theatrical release next month

    by lookleft

    Will they be giving us 2-3 episodes at once, or a major "pilot" episode? I'm not paying $8-10 bucks just to see one 22-minute episode...

  • July 14, 2008, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Lucas and the auteur theory

    by Klytus_I.m_Bored

    Lucas (and the machine behind him) seem to fall into the trap of looking at a film as the product of ONE person's vision and effort when it is, in effect, collaborative. No one person makes a film (in most cases). It is the product of a lot of decisions over a protracted period of time. Star Wars is no exception. Very little of the original films sprang fully formed from Lucas' temple. Vader wasn't Anakin in Lucas' original conception - that came about over a series of story break meetings for Empire. Who knows who came up with it? I don't know where I'm going with this, it just seemed to be pertinent...

  • July 14, 2008, 4:35 p.m. CST

    j2talk

    by spud mcspud

    There you go again, assuming that just because something is revisited by its original creator, it's going to be just as valid / good / well-made, when that simply isn't the case. Often, the reason for a creator having created something once truly great (Star Wars / Indy / Trek) suddenly going down the pan when revisiting it decades later, is a very simple reason - THEY GET COMFORTABLE. They get families, fortunes, huge multimedia empires, Oscars and accolades galore... and this breeds complacency. There are so many ways you can argue the superiority of the original Star Wars trilogy over the prequels trilogy - story was better, dialogue better written, better acting, effects looked better (at least, less like a fucking Playstation demo a la the end of SITH), a riveting plot, narrative continuity that made sense, and so on. It's subjective whether or not you like one trilogy over another - my six and five year old nephews will ALWAYS prefer the prequels, I will ALWAYS prefer the originals - but the actual mechanics of whether they are better made, written, plotted, acted, photographed etcd, is mostly objective and CAN be argued absolutely. The absolutely colossal amount of retconning Lucas has done to his own universe proves this. A good point: if Lucas knew all along what the prequels were going to be like, why choose such lame plots? Politics? Fixing engines on Tatooine? More politics? Lightsaber fights that inexplicably slow down and speed up to match the movements of the piss-poor camerawork (SITH)? Samuel L Jackson going out like a punk bitch? And here's one obvious example: Lucas cast Temuera Morrison, who is barely a competent actor let alone a great one, as Jango Fett, the man who all Clone Troopers (and later, we assume, all Stormtroopers) are cloned from. Lucas already should have remembered his own original trilogy - he fucking made them! And in those movies, the stormtroopers were distinctly individual, with varying accents. So rather than revisit his originals, take note that they all seemed to be American and then cast an American as Jango Fett to allow continuity in the accent of Jango to all the futurue clones of himself in the original trilogy - or even ask Temuera to master an American accent to match the previous Stormtroopers, as Ewan did for Obi-Wan's accent - he simply cast a Kiwi as the clone daddy, then retconned all the original trilogy movies to have Temuera's voice on the stormtroopers. This must have taken ages to do. There's no rational creative decision behind this - can you REALLY argue that Temuera is such a great thespian actor that he HAD to be in Clones, and his performance warranted the changing of all the stormtrooper voices in the OT just for that? Or is it the morel ikely version - Lucas was too fucking lazy / tired / bored / uninterested (take your pick) to even bother getting right these tiny bits of continuity in the saga he supposedly spent his entire life perfecting?<P> The reality is, Lucas talks a great game about how much these movies mean to him - and then the results show the absolute opposite. He just doesn't fucking care. And considering the success of STAR WARS is what got him his empire, his huge fortune - and that fanboys like me helped him build, by spending huge amounts of money on merchandise, money that went back into Lucasfilm - and that the fans got him that fortune, it shows a massive lack of respect to those who got him where he is - the fans (because the greatest movie in the world is just celluloid in a can if no-one pays to watch it, no?) - to just churn out three half-assed, badly plotted, can't-be-arsed fucking messes which were possibly the most long-awaited sequels of all time. He butt-fucked the fans of the biggest movie event EVER because he was too lazy to give his work the time and respect it fucking deserved. I don't know how you feel about people slacking at work, but I hate seeing it even on a microcosmic level, such as some idiot ignoring customers in a store. Paying back the very people who made you one of the richest film-makers in Hollywood by producing the biggest pile of shit ever thrown onto a digital screen is, like it or not, a monumental fucking insult to some of us. Either way, it's obvious that the success of Lucasfilm rests ENTIRELY on its fans - how the fuck could he have built LFL into the behemoth it is today if we fans hadn't watched those movies over and over, bought the toys, the merchandise, the DVDS? Money doesn't just grow on trees! It started with STAR WARS, and he owes all his success to those who PAID TO SEE HIS FUCKING MOVIE.<P> It's got fuck all to do with what we think should be up there. I have a million ideas for Star Wars movies and books I'd like to create, but I'd have been happy, in 1999, sitting waiting for that first prequel to roll, just to see a movie made with the same craft and love and care and passion that STAR WARS was made with way back in '77. What I got - what WE got - was an extended toy advert where the only thing that had due care and attention paid to it were the special effects. It was SPECTACULARLY SHIT.<P> As for the sarky little last comment... if you're not some massively famous auteur / screenwriter / director / whatever, are you one of those who "can't, complain"? Because here you are, complaining because some fans complain. I can back up what I'm saying all fucking year long - what have you got, apart from some sarcastic post-modern ironic "I'm so far above this argument" stance yet you happen to be here, on an internet talkback, discussing it with the rest of us sad fucks? Doesn't that make you JUST like us?<P> If you don't have that passionate, it-changed-my-life-forever love for the original trilogy that so many of us have, fine. You probably have passions in other areas. But don't start with the my-interests-are-better-than-yours high-horse fucking pseudo-morality that all you fan-haters come up with on these threads. It doesn't fucking wash. If you genuinely don't give a shit what the fuck Lucas comes up with for his next silver screen abortion, why the fuck are you even on this site???<P> I'm just askin'... ;D

  • July 14, 2008, 4:53 p.m. CST

    spud mcspud

    by romanocc

    Great Post, but I have a different take on all the continuity issues that the PT ruined, Lucas was doing since ESB. Once he changed Darth Vader being Lukes daddy, all bets were off to what was going to happen in each new movie. This went to his head, and Lucas loves throwing curve balls at the audience, hence Luke & Leia being siblings in the next movie, and Obiwan not lying from a POV.... It all worked in the OT, simply because each movie came AFTER the next so he was telling a linear story, and because of that, he could reconfigure a new angle that may not have been prevailent in the previous movie, and it may make you question that it wasn't there before, but you went with it. Luke and Leia being siblings in ROTJ, but they kissed in ESB? OK, but they didn't know it, so why wouldn't they like each other. The problem with the PT is that Lucas started doing it again, throwing curveballs in every new movie, but this time the story had already been told, so you already had 3 future movies that it had to match up to. Uncle Owen owns in C3PO for 10 years in AOTC, but wait he doesn't recognize him in ANH? Padme dies at childbirth, but wait, Leia said she died while she was very young, not a childbirth!!! Lucas HAD to be more careful with his plot points in the PT, because many plot points were already written in stone that he had to obey, as to the OT where the story was moving forward and he could go at it anyway he wanted. This was always a reason I thought he should have made 7,8,9, he could have told ANY story he wanted, and not get caught up in certain points he HAD to tell for the PT. As for being a diehard OT fan, I hear ya, those movies ruled my childhood, and I guess no one understands this unless you loved em like we did. Nothing beat SW as a kid, and to this day nothing beats the OT movies.

  • July 14, 2008, 5:06 p.m. CST

    romanocc

    by spud mcspud

    Great post from you too - nobody ever remembers the clangers in the OT, but to this day I think that in ROTJ Luke shoul have delivered the line "A certain point of view?!?" with vehemence, anger and some bitterness - certainly not the mild, thoughtful line reading he gives, which makes a mockery of Obi-Wan's following line "Luke, you're going to learn that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our point of view.". Lousy way to wriggle out of the fact he told a whopping lie two movies back, but we're too invested in the story to pay any attention. Always bugged me, though, the way Luke delivered that line.<P> I love playing STAR WARS with my nephews - my five-year old is ALWAYS Anakin, and does a great impression of "You will try!" from the climactic duel in ROTS, but a part of me is always going to be upset that they'll never understand the seismic impact that first movie had on us all. It arguably changed movies and the way they were made AND promoted, and certainly invented mass marketing for toy tie-in lines (yes, there were previous, eg Planet of the apes, but nothing on the scale of Star wars toys). It changed movies forever. And I CANNOT WAIT to see 5-25-77 on the big screen, 'cos that guy (Patrick Read Johnson) REALLY gets what made that movie a touchstone in our lives for many of us. There's a great line in the trailer when main character Patrick is talking to his girlfriend, and she says "That wasn't your first time. Your first time was when you saw that ship fly overhead in that movie". And she was right - STAR WARS is bigger than sex, bigger than adolescence, bigger than ANYTHING in my memories. Back in the day, almost all my spare time was consumed by it. The PT has made me bitter to a degree I cannot describe, and I don't EVER want to be anywhere in the vicinity of Grand Moff Lucas, because - much like Simon Pegg has asserted in the past - I might actually want to beat him to death with my bare hands for what he did with those movies. Hey, some call it a bit much, I call it "bringing Balance to the Force" :D

  • July 14, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Rameses

    by Rommel Catuncan

    I'm willing to believe that Lucas changed the shot post-ESB because I watched a VHS tape of SW over and over again as a kid- it was the version shown on TV before the theatrical release of ESB. I am also willing to believe that Lucas changed it for the "original theatrical release" DVD that came out recently, because it makes it look like SW was a self-contained story with no sequels in mind. I never remember the shot of Vader in the cockpit spinning suddenly slowing down and straightening up (which could've easily been altered). Anyway, I guess nothing can prove us right at this stage, except this "coincidence" of people remembering the same thing. Lucas would probably deny it even if it was true.

  • July 14, 2008, 5:54 p.m. CST

    spud mcspud

    by romanocc

    You are totally right about the OT inconsistencies, because they were so minor, you just went with it. I never got mad at a POV, or even Luke/Leia being siblings, simply because (I will give a Jerry Maquire reference) you had me at the opening crawl in 1977. I think we all agree that ROTJ is the inferior of the OT movies, but after 2 classic movies, it was still a very good sequel, and it finished the story. The OT movies just stayed with you as a kid, simply cause they weren't made for kids IMO. The movies were essentially guilty pleasure movies that had substance, and that was very appealing as a kid to watch a movie about lightsabers, ships, and the force which was all fun mixed in with scenes like the Cave, where you knew there was more to this story then meets the eye. I will be honest, I am not bitter about the PT, I am bitter about the Special Editions, as that pisses me off that Lucas won't even recognize them anymore. It pisses me off that the ending of ROTJ is gone from the history books, I fell in love with the ending in 1983 with old man Anakin there smiling at Luke, and Lucas just ripped that actor out and plugged in Hayden. I can get over the PT, the same way I got over Rocky V, Superman III & IV, and Godfather III, but I will never be a satisfied SW fan until Lucas puts out the OOT in just as great quality as the SE.

  • July 14, 2008, 6:18 p.m. CST

    by Rommel Catuncan

    *those eyes*

  • July 14, 2008, 6:28 p.m. CST

    inconsistencies

    by j2talk

    where was it established that the stormtropoers where clones? people are assuming this...Lea's mother died when she was young-she didnt know she was adopted, her "mother" was Breha Antilles Organa wife of Bail Organa who died when she was young....next

  • July 14, 2008, 6:33 p.m. CST

    my point

    by j2talk

    Is for those of us who saw Star Wars the first time around, NOTHING would live up to what we had built up in our heads... All told I am glad we got EP 1,2 and 3 rather than not getting them, sure parts were a let down, but to whine that our childhood was raped or some such nonsense is ridiculous- get over it....deal with what you got and move on

  • July 14, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST

    those

    by Rommel Catuncan

    *eyes*

  • July 14, 2008, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Wait a sec...

    by Darkling

    <p>You're saying that in the most recent release of the OT, George replaced all of the stormtroopers' voices with Temuera Morrison's? I know he dubbed Morrison in as Boba Fett in ESB, but I didn't realise he'd gone so far as to do the same with every stormtrooper in the OT. <p>I haven't watched the 'latest' versions of the OT because I'm tired of the constant revisionism. "Here's my definitive vision." "No, wait, *here's* my definitive vision." A few years later: "Here's my new and improved definitive vision that ties in with the new movie I made last year." Sheesh. <p>I *have* watched ANH on DVD, but that was the first release, and the stormtrooper voices weren't changed. Oh well, one more reason not to bother buying the OT on DVD, I guess.

  • July 14, 2008, 7:40 p.m. CST

    The Brains, fear not.....

    by SubliminalJones

    As a kid in 1978, I owned Super 8MM reels of "select scenes" from SW that I watched ad infinitum at home over the course of about 4 years. One of them had a trucated version of the Death Star battle, and the shot of Vader recovering and flying away at the end WAS present, and has always been part of the film.

  • July 14, 2008, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Darkling....

    by SubliminalJones

    The original stormtrooper voices have not been replaced by the voice of Morrison....yet. As of the most recent DVD of the bastardized OT, only Fett's voice has been altered(and for the worse).

  • July 14, 2008, 8:06 p.m. CST

    SubliminalJones

    by Rommel Catuncan

    Thanks for clearing that up. I snorted a lot of powder from Pixy Stix as a child. The neighborhood boys all did it.

  • July 15, 2008, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Phew

    by Darkling

    Thanks for the reassurance, Subliminal. Replacing Boba Fett's voice in ESB was bad enough. Morrison's performance just didn't have anywhere near the same level of menace or attitude as the original voice.

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