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Great Britain Is In A July 5th Tizzy Because It Just Saw Russell T. Davies’ Last Regular Installment Of DOCTOR WHO!!

I am – Hercules
The last regular episode of "Doctor Who" until 2010 just aired on the BBC. Apparently David Tennant retains the title role but lots of other changes were afoot. “Doctor Dan” says:
DOCTOR WHO 4.13 – "Journey's End" (Part 2 of 2) Writer: Russell T. Davies Director: Graeme Harper Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna), Billie Piper (Rose), Freema Agyeman (Martha), John Barrowman (Captain Jack), Elisabeth Sladen (Sarah-Jane Smith), Noel Clarke (Mickey), Camille Coduri (Jackie Tyler), Thomas Knight (Luke Smith), Eve Myles (Gwen Cooper), Gareth David-Lloyd (Ianto Jones), Bernard Cribbins (Gramps), Jacqueline King (Sylvia Noble), Adjoa Andoh (Francine Jones), Julian Bleach (Davros), Valda Aviks (German Woman), Shobu Kapoor (Scared Woman), Elizabeth Tan (Chinese Woman), Michael Price (Liberian Man), Nicholas Briggs (Dalek, voice) & Alexander Armstrong (Mr. Smith, voice) Davros reveals his master plan, as the Doctor's former-companions race to prevent the destruction of reality... A cloud of secrecy descended on Doctor Who this week, as viewers were left shell-shocked by the apparent regeneration of David Tennant as the cliffhanger ending to "The Stolen Earth". Voracious speculation sent forums and blogs into meltdown, while the nation's kids were left on the precipice of bereavement for their hero. But, as predicted by those aware of the various "get-outs" available to Russell T. Davies, the popular Tennant lives to regenerate another day... "Journey's End" continues the story with the exact same temperament; furiously paced, mostly illogical, and continually threatening to disappear up its own backside. Still, with your brain disengaged and focused on the sweeping emotion of everything, this conclusion is easy to enjoy and gets enough right to make the journey worthwhile. Perhaps inevitably, the solution to The Doctor's life-or-new-life crisis is solved within seconds -- a simple transference of his regenerative powers into the hand lopped off in "The Christmas Invasion", after his wounds have been healed, but the transformation yet to begin. From there, the storyline once again splinters into various strands: The Doctor, Captain Jack (John Barrowman) and Rose (Billie Piper) brought aboard the Dalek Crucible by Davros (Julian Bleach); Donna (Catherine Tate) trapped aboard the TARDIS as it's sent to a fiery destruction; Martha (Freema Agyeman) teleporting to Nuremburg to use the Osterhagen Key as a last-ditch effort to save the planet; and Sarah-Jane (Elisabeth Sladen) teaming up with Jackie Tyler (Camille Coduri) and Mickey Smith (Noel Clarke) aboard a Dalek detention centre. For a 65-minute long episode, events fortunately don't drag as badly as the similarly-long "Voyage Of The Damned" special did, with Russell T. Davies clearly using this finale to bring a number of plot-strands to a close – some stretching right back to season 1. Primarily, Rose's love for The Doctor is imaginatively brought to a close, thanks to the arrival of a Human-Doctor clone, grown from The Doctor's dismembered hand after Donna touches it. While the plausibility of nearly everything is stretched to absolute breaking point, the greatest success of "Journey's End" is when Davros takes perverse delight in demonstrating to The Doctor how his "children of time" have learned nothing from him – ready, willing and able to be gung-ho "soldiers" and destroy billions of people on Earth for a hollow victory. The scenes between a captured Doctor and Davros were excellent; as Tennant finally got a chance to face-off against a villain with an interesting viewpoint, beautifully performed by a raspy Julian Bleach. The sheer volume of returning characters meant most suffered: Jackie Tyler (comic-relief only), Mickey (always irritating, and now nudged into Torchwood -- god help us), Sarah-Jane (whose history with Who mythology continues to be her only interesting aspect), Martha (who came across as a reckless idiot who's learned nothing from The Doctor's teachings), Captain Jack (a character who rarely operates much above gun-toting cheeseball), and the total pointlessness of Gwen (Eve Myles) and Ianto (Gareth David-Lloyd). Fortunately, the actors that count got interesting things to do: David Tennant was kind of relegated to standing around watching his friends try to save the day at times, but was never anything less than compelling otherwise (and got a fun dual role as a Doctor tinged with Donna's impertinence); Billie Piper is lost in the mix for a long time, but the episode's poignant beach-set resolution to her affection worked better than it should have; but Catherine Tate got the memorable stuff – "mothering" a cloned Doctor, being endowed with The Doctor's knowledge (and mannerisms!) and ended the season on a bittersweet note. Overall, if you enjoyed "The Stolen Earth" you'll certainly enjoy this, and vice-versa. It's every bit as questionable and freewheeling as last week, but didn't quite contain anything to rival events in the set-up. But everything drew to an effective conclusion and left 2008/9 a clean slate for the 4 specials before Steven Moffat inherits the show in 2010. There are nitpicks aplenty and cries of RTD fooling around with the fans will doubtless echo around the internet for a few days, but this was a very entertaining finale. The strong performances from Tenn ant and Tate (the latter of whom earned a turnaround in most peoples' feelings when her casting was first announced), helped pull you through its moments of silliness, and a storyline that sometimes felt half-improvised. 'Till Christmas, then... The Good 1. David Tennant and Catherine Tate; both superb once again, particularly the latter – whose late-episode transgression into the irritating Donna seen in Runaway Bride demonstrated how far her character came in 13 episodes. 2. Julian Bleach was a perfect Davros and his grand scheme suita bly epic. In fact, how do you stop wanting to destroy reality itself in future episodes? Over to you, Steven Moffat... 3. Excellent special FX this week: the Dalek Crucible, various ships/planets, and the CGI flying Daleks were of a very high standard. Bravo. 4. The emotional moments (Davros and The Doctor's chat), Rose's (second) beach farewell and Donna's ending, worked very well and brought balance to the episode's excessive, freewheeling nature elsewhere. 5. Dalek Caan and his prophecies factored into the story nicely, and the mystery surrounding Donna's link to The Doctor was one of the few plot-strands that clicked. 6. K-9! Here boy! 7. The gathering of everyone together to fly the TARDIS back home as a group was the perfect visual for the underlying theme to this finale: team-work. 8. Bernard Cribbins; less screen time than everyone else, but he tugged at the heart-strings with twice the success of them all. 9. Donna's mostly-foiled attempts to get a hug from hunky Captain Jack. And yes, even Jack's allusion to imagining a foursome with The Doctor, Human-Doctor and Donna-Doctor made me smile. The Bad 1. German Daleks! But yeah, okay, they were kind of funny – and the Dalek parallel to Nazis gave their battle cries of "Exterminieren!" a fun edge. 2. Martha and the Germany detour with the Osterhagen plot-device was very strained, as was the silly out-of-nowhere appearance of Sarah-Jane's necklace-bomb! 3. There were too many characters involved, with most having nothing of much relevance to do. 4. We were bound to feel a bit cheated by the lack of a proper regeneration, and this episode didn't have anything to top "The Stolen Earth" in terms of jaw-dropping. No flashbacks to the Eighth Doctor, or any of the other fan-pleasing rumours that has swept the internet in the past week. Which was a shame. 5. The lack of the traditional "sting" to set us up for the Christmas Special. Instead, we just got a few glimpses of Cyberman in the post-credits trail – and seeing as the Cybermen were one of season 2's big disappointments, is anyone excited? 6. The distinct feeling that RTD is making it up as he goes along; bending the script to get himself out of dead-ends, and stretching plausibility if there's the promise of a good visual. The Geeky 1. Dalek Caan became the second Dalek member of The Cult Of Skaro to see the Daleks for the megalomaniacal villains they really are. 2. Davros mentions knowing Sarah-Jane from when he first crated the Dalek race, referencing the 1975 story "Genesis Of The Daleks" with the Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker). 3. This episode confirms that the TARDIS is designed to be flown by six pilots. 4. OSTERHAGAN is an anagram of EARTH'S GONE. Clever. 5. This episode confirms that The Doctor is not half-human, as implied by the Eighth Doctor (Paul McGann) in the 1996 TVM. 6. It looks like Martha and Mickey will replace Owen and Tosh on Torchwood in season 3, as rumoured. Rating: 3.5 / 5
“The Handsome 12th Doctor” says:
Oh Lordy where do I even begin? Well ummm, the beginning might be a good place to start. I want to appraise this without spoilers but it's going to be incredibly tricky this week. I can't even say what happens in the very first minute of it without giving something of note away. I thought about writing a hoax along the lines of "David Tennant regenerates into David Threlfall". But I suspect somebody else has by now said what really happens so I wouldn't be fooling anyone. Even if spoilers are all over the shop I'm still sticking with my practice of not giving anything big away. So with that in mind the Doctor, who was very well played by the person who plays him/her, and the plucky band of companions get right into the action of saving the universe. And it was awesome. To paraphrase the genius Charlie Brooker – "If you don't like it you can piss off." Ok, sure it's bunkum when you really analyse it. Full of techno-babble about neutrinos and using planet alignments as a huge transmitter. And it didn't make any sense for Caan to have brought Davros back to create a new Dalek empire considering Caan's real idea. But it was all done with such verve and fun that watching it made me feel like a kid again. While at the same time the grown-up me is impressed by the many new innovations brought to it. Such as seeing the Daleks get around real locations rather than only on studio sets with smooth floors. The shot of them flying through a forest looked particularly good. This gives them a more tangible sense of menace when we can see that they could turn up outside our house and blow the crap out of us. I'm looking at you TomBodet. Davros had a lot more to do this week and the ep was better for it. The actor behind him (I wish I knew his name) portrayed a convincing manic madness. The dialogue got nicely profound for a family show when he talked of what the Doctor had created in his companions. Meanwhile Dalek Caan continued to be brilliantly bonkers. I know some people didn't like him last week but I thought he was hilarious. Very much like the daffy Gremlin in 'Gremlins 2'. What else did I like? Jackie with a gun..... the Doctor's half-impression of Donna...... Donna's half-impression of the Doctor...... the beautiful choral score....... Bernard Cribbins!! But most of all I loved it when Martha broke the 4th wall and smiled straight at us. That was the sexiest thing I've seen on telly since Tina Fey winked right at the camera in '30 Rock'. Oh and that ending! You won't believe what happens. When Rose wakes up and David Tennant steps out of the shower, you'll be amazed!!! No seriously, it was a good ending(s) by RTD. He didn't pull any sudden reset bollocks and allowed time for a fine dramatic end to develop. Plus it was refreshing that no Xmas special trail appeared to take us out of the moment. Until after the credits where it should be. Roll on Xmas!
“Cand Ass Monkey Suit” says:
Hi Herc Just thought id chime in with the last who episode and give the lowdown on what went on EPISODE 13 "JOURNEY'S END" WRITTEN BY RUSSELL T DAVIES MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD..BEWARE! Well after last weeks amazing first part and the end scene which left everyone agast..i was itching to see if we had a new doctor but praying Mt Tennant would not leave did he??.....................................................NO HE DIDNT !! Hooray !! The Doc starts to regenerate as we know, but channels the regeneration process into the spare hand he keeps in a jar,thus healing himself with the regenaration energy but channeling it away to the hand!!...More on this dont end there folks!! Journeys end is a very good season finale..not quite as good as the brilliant first part"the stolen sky" but runs a close second as the pace,like last week never lets up and crams so much into its 65 mins runtime..this 20 mins longer than most who ep's. The Doc,Donna,Rose,Cat Jack,Martha,Sarah jane,jackie tyler,Mickey and oh yeah a little robot dog called K9 all get to help the doc defeat davros and the daleks. Everyone gets there turn to shine in this ep and all play their part. Davros sends the tardis with donna to its doom..the doc is ok and with rose..but the strane regeneration that never was is reignited causing the docs severed hand to regenerate back into another tennant doctor..thus we have 2 doctors who look the same!! Everyone comes together on the dalek ship and donna who tries to kill davros is blasted by his power but this ignites something in donna..the regeneration in the tardis has also been channelled into her thus causing a her to become part human and part timelord! Everyone converges together and starts the destruction of the dalek ship but this is helped in no large part to the new 2nd doctor who wants to destoy thm once and for everyone heads into the tardis before the ship explodes,our doc offers to rescue davros but he refuses saying that the doc will be remembered as "the destroyer of worlds"! The Doc drops of capt jack,sarah jane and even mickey (who says that he wants to return back to our earth as theres nothing for him in the parralel earth) back on earth who all say their goodbyes The doc and donna then travel to the beach in the parralel earth where rose said her goodbyes 2 seasons ago and offers her the 2nd doctor to stay with her..she doesnt want that intitally as it isnt him..but the doc convinces here that he is him..just only the man he was before they met..this doc only has one heart and cant regenerate..Rose can live her life with the man she loves..they kiss and donna and the doc return to the tardis..Rose has her doctor at last! As the doc returns donna home,donna starts to feel the efects of the timelord enegy inside here..this could never happen says the will end up with donna dead if she is left. The Doc decides to take her memory leaving her with no knowledge of the him like they had never met..this is the only way she can survive..if she remebers for just 1 second..she will die..the doc returns her home to wilf and sylvia saying that she must never ever know about him or what has taken place. The doc says goodbye and returns to the tardis..lonely and sad THE END Phew...well a thrilling finale to be sure..i havent given the story here justice as it would take to long but this is a wonderful finale filled with touching,heartbreaking and down right brilliant moments|!! THE DOC WILL RETURN IN "GHOSTS IN THE MACHINES" FEATURING THE RETURN OF THE CYBERMEN..CHRSTMAS DAY 2008 THE GOOD The last 10 mins..moving,touching and woderfully played by all. Julian bleaches performance of davros is equal to the great michael wisher..a worthy successor. The fx work,though good wasnt as good as last weeks but still great. THE BAD The get out of jail card used in the story to defeat the daleks was a little prepostrous but a minor quibble. Some fx work in a couple of places looked rushed..again a minor quibble WELL A GREAT SEASON FINALE..WE CAN ALL REST SAFE IN THE KNOWLEDGE MR TENNANT ISNT LEAVING (YET!) IM A BIT SAD ABOUT ROSE AS I WANTED TO SEE THEM REUNITED PROPERLY BUT I GUESS IN A WAY THEY ARE..I STILL HOPE BILLIE WILL RETURN SOMEDAY AGAIN..ROLL ON XMAS! 9/10
“dj bollocks” says:
So then a 65 mins Whostravaganza... Journey's End for someone.... There seems little point in reviewing this in the rambling way I usually do - suffice to say this may be something that needs a second viewing to appreciate it properly. There is greatness, some truly beautiful scenes but some truly awful acting and writing too. I wouldn't be surprised if the other reviewers have mixed feelings too and writing this whilst I watch Confidential the production and direction were sound enough but the desire to create something huge has probably meant that the attention to detail has affected quality control... Let's start with the writing - some parts genius, some parts largely awful - I'm sure someone will be able to nit pick and gouge out generous sized plot holes but when it didn't involve "Parallel world Dimension cannons", "instantaneous biological metacrisis" and "Single string Z Neutrino Energy" it was largely great. But some of the pantomime 'other' Doctor scenes and seemingly fan wank moments - truly cringeworthy and ugly.... That and just making shit up as RTD goes along... The hand, Two Doctors, and Half Human and Half Time Lord Donna. The great - Davros - all the best dialogue, all the best characteristics and direction... And some great moments where he compares the Doctor to changing his companions and fashioning them into an army; a killing machine just like Davros has done. And fair play to Harper in the most part at least when there wasn't pantomime - qv inside the Tardis with all the Doctor's family. Still watching Confidential - it's like they're almost apologising for the plotholes ! It's all over bar the shouting after about 40 mins and despite a few coup de graces with each companion team the whole Dalek downfall seems rushed an unsurprisingly unfulfilling - I mean c'mon way to make them look like the pepperpots. Pushing them away... ugh ! Finishing Rose's story back at Bad Wolf Bay - again (cynical moi) but other Doctor and Rose walk off in the sunset - still no sign of Rose's dad, baby sitting no doubt - and the kiss... meh ! So ultimately we end with Donna being Donna - wiped clean - and overall the feeling is not of Tater hate but In-Tater-ence - some great moments, and the last thing we'll remember her is of her pantomime persona. Leave it to the legend of Bernard Cribbens to create a nice bittersweet ending and an almost silent dematerialistaion. So ultimately unfulfilling I'm afraid - fair play to RTD he's tried, but he hasn't quite made it going for style and bravado over substance. My Doctor Who is about storytelling - maybe that's not everyone else's idea of Doctor Who. That why those of us who love The Moff's work are optimistic about the future. Real storytelling - consistent story telling that doesn't necessarily involve saving your budget for the last two episodes. Time will tell, it usually does - no doubt Davies does Dickens with Cybermen at Christmas will be more pantomime rather than great storytelling... Might see you on Christmas Day to dissect it !
“ApocalypseGuy” says:
"Right. Where were we?" Journey's End. Aka, Everything and the Kitchen Sink, plus that bastard dog, Part II… "Right. Where fucking were we?" Honestly. What a cop out… Except it wasn't really, was it? After last year's decidedly average finale, I have to admit that I was ready to tear this thing apart and after that beginning, after an entire week where every fanboy/geek/ten year old in the country seemed to have one question on their mind, after I had to make a make shift TV aerial from a coat hanger (long story) to watch this thing, I was more than ready to. But, much to my disappointment, this episode had so much that was good about it. Last year, in my review of the season three finale, I wrote that Russell T. Davies needed to grow up. He toyed around with the idea of genocide and then he made it all go away because he couldn't make his mind up whether or not the show was a kid's show or a serious adult sci-fi show. This time around, the genocide of the dalek race is actually an issue – an issue that resolves itself by punishing the character responsible with a happily ever after ending – but that is discussed and that actually means something to the Doctor, the character that we care about the most, none the less. Meanwhile, the human characters do a fantastic job of showing us that the human race is racing its way towards destruction. Slightly pushed in our faces, but never the less, it would appear to be Russell T's final statement in this universe; even though ALMOST every human in sight is seemingly obsessed with destroying something, whether it's the daleks or even the entire planet, there's always a better way to deal with things, which the Doctor always finds. Which makes it all the more heartbreaking this time when it is part of the Doctor himself who is responsible for the genocide. The Doctor hates this part of himself, the part that is becoming increasingly human, and he chooses to deal with it by locking it away in a place he can never deal with it again. He is beautifully flawed, as highlighted by the fantastic, yet short, final scene, that wasn't interrupted by a hokey mini trailer for the Christmas episode for a change. (Speaking of which – the Cybermen? At Christmas? Really? Oh c'mon…) But there's still some good people out there in the world. Rose. The Doctor knows that if he's going to lock this new, volatile version of himself away with anyone it should be with her. You'd have to be pretty daft not to see it coming, but it was a nice moment and a nice ending for Rose's character. And we finally got the kiss that every Rose/Doctor fan has waited four years for. And then there's Donna. Before I get to her, I just want to launch into one of my main gripes about RTD as a writer on Who. Nobody ever dies. Nobody who's an important hero anyway. Okay, so Harriet what's her name died in the last episode, but who cares. And then when we get that flashback of all the people who have laid down their lives in the Doctor's name and as great as it was, as much as it made us realise something about the Doctor, it only served to highlight the fact that nobody we've ever really cared about has ever died on this show before. And then we finally get to the point where RTD can round this thing off and prove me wrong, and he half-heartedly "kills" Donna. Why not go all the way? Why not make her, admittedly somewhat confusing, sacrifice mean something? Why hype up this huge prophecy about someone dying and then lead to it only killing her memories? Why, Russell T, why?! It could have meant so much more. But alas, I digress. Donna's arc, from what I've seen of it (I've missed a few episodes this year), seems to have been very nicely handled. Despite my gripes about her not actually dying, her final scene was a nice reminder of just how far she's come over the last thirteen episodes. She's grown from being someone who was just an annoying self-centred bint into a woman who was believably willing to lay down her life to save people, and then growing even more because of it. I didn't like how the regeneration issue was resolved so quickly in the opening scene, but at least this double bluff made up for it. I loved seeing Tennant and Tate realising what had happened, when they realised that the Doctor was part human (although I could have done without the silly music) and when they realised that Donna was part time lord. The acting seemed pretty solid right the way across the board, although I'm not entirely sure about how Tennant played the copy of the Doctor. He seemed to be struggling to take the Doctor to how he was in his very first episode, but I don't think he quite got there. At some points he seemed a little bit too naïve, only to seem to know exactly what was happening a couple of moments later. Maybe that was the point, I'm not sure. The effects all looked top notch – the coat hanger wasn't an ideal aerial, I must admit – and the sequence with the TARDIS tugging the Earth back home especially, was a great moment. So what didn't I like? Well, there were far too many characters running around. No one seemed to get a decent amount of screen time, but Billie Piper and her new teeth, perhaps fortunately, seemed to draw the shortest of straws. All of the cliffhangers seemed to be resolved far too easily, Martha seemed as boring as ever (especially when having to share the screen with the likes of Rose, Jack and Donna), and there are no words for that weird little Chinese girl Martha talked to… I really disliked Davros. I don't know if you can tell, but I'm not a massive fan of Who so I don't know what he was like the first time round back in the 70s, but his plans just didn't seem to come together and be all that threatening. Yes, I get the daleks want to be the superior power, just like any "evil" superpower in history, but I just wasn't convinced enough by his motivations or Davros as a character. The Randomizer, despite all of its Nazi/Jewish shower metaphor, just wasn't all that threatening. Why couldn't Jackie have died? Then we could have had a sense of loss and the feeling that this thing meant business. I could just about deal with Dalek Kahn. I didn't entirely get why he did what he did at the end of the episode, but I'm sure I'll pick up on that on a second viewing. Despite his insanity, he seemed to have a method to his madness and seemed more convincing to me than Davros ever was. Finally, everything seemed to be tied up a little bit too neatly. Just one actual death, to get a sense of people dying for the cause and the loss that made the victory happen, and I would have been happy. But despite that, I loved how everything in RTD's tenure on Who has built up to this one moment, although part of me is left wondering whether it was pre-planned or if it all conveniently came together in RTD's head one morning. Either way, I don't care, for the most part, I enjoyed it. And it was all capped off with that bittersweet final scene. Tennant's Doctor alone again, alone as ever. I don't think I'll ever completely enjoy an RTD written episode of Who but this was far better than last year's finale and a fitting send off to a series that, whether I like it or not, has put British scifi back on the map again. See you at Christmas. With the Cybermen. Oh dear.

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Readers Talkback
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  • July 4, 2008, 8:49 p.m. CST


    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    I don't buy it about Carlyle, but man, I can't wait for the torrents to stop popping up tomorrow.

  • July 4, 2008, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Oh, and by the way.

    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    How fitting that on Independence Day, a Yankee claims first on a British-borne talkback? USA! USA! USA!

  • July 4, 2008, 8:54 p.m. CST

    Can't wait.

    by shellfishh

    I was actually LOOKING for spoilers all over the web and couldn't find anything.

  • July 4, 2008, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Good Riddance, RTD

    by EskNerd

    Steven Moffat can't take over as showrunner soon enough.

  • July 4, 2008, 8:57 p.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    How about a nice 'thank you, RTD' for bringing Doctor Who back to us?

  • July 4, 2008, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Here are some preview photos

    by EyeofPolyphemus <P> But no, you cannot find spoilers anywhere.

  • July 4, 2008, 9:05 p.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    The 30 second BBC One promo with the Davros narration is EXCELLENT.

  • July 4, 2008, 9:16 p.m. CST

    I don't want...

    by Oomlot

    ...Hilter to be the next Doctor Who. This is like if they had replaced Tom Baker with Gary Coleman.

  • July 4, 2008, 9:19 p.m. CST

    screw men!

    by Obscura

    I want Joanna Lumley! she did it one year for children in need, as did Richard E Grant. A Female Doctor would be such a good twist!

  • July 4, 2008, 9:20 p.m. CST

    Dark Horse

    by shellfishh

    Kim Wilde for the next Doctor!

  • July 4, 2008, 9:30 p.m. CST

    amen esknerd, and bring on carlyle

    by prunkhaft

    great choice.

  • July 4, 2008, 9:50 p.m. CST


    by EskNerd

    I wrote a long, reasoned response to your comment but accidentally erased it, so here's the summary: <p> Davies should be praised for bringing the show back and laying out a good first series. However, his writing has either been getting progressively worse or it's been getting stale. His dialogue and plot devices are cheesy even for Doctor Who, and that's saying something! <p> Moffat, on the other hand, has contributed a handful of the best episodes of the new series, including my personal favorite, "Blink". <p> I won't say Davies <i>should</i> have stepped aside earlier, but I certainly wish he had.

  • July 4, 2008, 9:53 p.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    I don't disagree with any of your points, and thought he utterly botched last season's Master story, and I am really hoping he doesn't botch this finale. <br><br> I just think he should be given credit for what he has done well, including the first season, and the first two season finales.

  • July 4, 2008, 10:01 p.m. CST

    it's all very exciting

    by Mr_X

    im so used to spoilers, that im actually quite surprised there's nothign out there for the this ep.

  • July 4, 2008, 10:01 p.m. CST

    as long as we are tossing out names..

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    I think the BBC should have pursued Alexander Siddig. He can play both serious and manic, has a built in audience from DS9, and would be the first non-white Doctor. I do not see how they could lose with him. He still does television work for the BBC, to boot.

  • July 4, 2008, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Just tossing it out there...

    by shellfishh

    Alan Rickman?

  • July 4, 2008, 10:05 p.m. CST

    The Full Monty?

    by captain_kirk

    Come on, a nudie doctor?

  • July 4, 2008, 10:12 p.m. CST

    AHHHIIIEEEEEE - Carlyle!

    by AnnoyYou

    I for one will freak majorly if Tennant morphs into Carlyle tomorrow afternoon, and I mean this in a good way (I LOVE CARLYLE and have for years, ever since I saw him in Ken Loach's "Riff Raff"). But I fully expect all the old school Whovians and general naysayers and nitpickers to be pissed off about it. SO WHAT?! ROBERT CARLYLE! Yikes. I will have a million Kleenex at hand tomorrow.

  • July 4, 2008, 10:15 p.m. CST


    by vadakinX

    What about Captain Jack? He has been a semi-regular companion.

  • July 4, 2008, 10:31 p.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    Two big arguments AGAINST seeing a regeneration. One, I thought the whole point of the four movies next year was to accommodate Tennant and give him more time off.<br><BR> Second, after all he has done for the show, I can't see him going without a drawn out and well-deserved scene of goodbyes which he wouldn't get if he is already regenerating as the show starts.

  • July 4, 2008, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Accusations of Buggery

    by ROBRAM89

    Best band name ever.

  • July 4, 2008, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Better than

    by shellfishh

    Suggestions of Sodomy???

  • July 4, 2008, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Split doctors?

    by Dasinfogod

    The shot from the Dalek was a glancing blow, and only seemed to affect half of the Doctor's body. I think what we're about to see is what happens when a regeneration goes horribly awry. He has two hearts and only one seems to have been killed off. My vote: Tennant will split in two and one of them ("half human on his mother's side") will likely die tearfully or maybe wander off with Rose back to her dimension. <p> Do we know if Moffett or RTD will be producing the 2009 movies?

  • July 4, 2008, 10:47 p.m. CST

    He wont regenerate

    by executiverocker

    Not properly, his "death" scene was far too short and lacking emotion. He will either be the same, or the hand in the jar will play a trick.

  • July 4, 2008, 11:07 p.m. CST

    esknerd is wrong!!!

    by JaredParker3

    russell brought a refreshing change to doctor who he brought back the daleks in season 1 the cybermen in season 2 the master in season 3 and now davros his arch nemesis in season 4 plus hes given the doctor the most beautiful companions in billy piper freema ageyma and catherine tate his drive to perfect the series puts it in league with shows like battlestar galactica or alias shows that stimulate your mind not just your adrenaline

  • July 4, 2008, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Jared. Really?

    by shellfishh

    Catherine Tate? "Most beautiful companions"?<br><br> Really?<br><br> Ultimately, Tate was MUCH better this year than I feared, and it looks like she is going to get a powerful send-off. But, watch the hyperbole.

  • July 4, 2008, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Accusations of Buggery

    by shellfishh

    Sang to the tune of Real Life's "Images of Heaven". Start humming it and you will never stop.

  • July 4, 2008, 11:44 p.m. CST

    Re: Trik_Ster

    by Larry of Arabia

    It would be akin to fucking up, oh, say a Star Trek Relaunch. You here me, JJ?

  • July 4, 2008, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Silly Prick-ster

    by shellfishh


  • July 4, 2008, 11:52 p.m. CST

    If Herc still did his "five star" system...

    by KnightShift

    ...then "The Stolen Earth" was better television than we deserve. Dear LORD, what an amazing time for television lately! Lost season 4, Battlestar Galactica, John Adams, and the past few Doctor Who episodes (especially Moffat's last two-parter). And now this.<p>My guess: Tennant remains as the current Doctor, but we are going to see a future incarnation somehow and maybe even Christopher Eccleston as the ninth Doctor all together. Dalek Caan said that "the threefold man" was coming. Wouldn't it be like RTD to bring back the actor who brought the Doctor back from hiatus, for this his final episode as showrunner?

  • July 5, 2008, 12:02 a.m. CST

    esknerd is wrong!!!

    by EskNerd

    Yes, bringing back all the Doctor's classic nemeses *is* a refreshing change! :D

  • July 5, 2008, 12:19 a.m. CST

    It's pronounced...

    by EskNerd


  • July 5, 2008, 12:32 a.m. CST

    That Dawn as a horse image kinda does it for me....

    by Stormwatcher

    Just saying, kinda hot

  • July 5, 2008, 12:32 a.m. CST

    Thandie Newton should be the next Dr.

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

  • July 5, 2008, 12:55 a.m. CST

    Gentlemen, fire up your torrent clients...

    by lynxpro

    I predict the net is going to be on fire tomorrow around 2pm PST.

  • July 5, 2008, 12:56 a.m. CST

    It's "Nemeses"

    by ROBRAM89

    For the record.

  • July 5, 2008, 12:57 a.m. CST

    Phuk Will Smith...

    by lynxpro

    I am so angry that there aren't any good films out this 4th of July weekend. *The Dark Knight* and *Hellboy 2* should both be in the theatres now but I guess the studios were worried that Ahh Hell Naaah Smith and his flaccid *Hancock* was going to destroy everything else at the theatres. Well, phuk the Fresh Prince all the way to Xenu's home planet.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:13 a.m. CST

    I put my prediction at the end of this music video...

    by Kelvington

    Here is my thoughts on the regeneration at the end of this Dalek music video... <P><P><P><P>Of course remove spaces as needed.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:13 a.m. CST


    by EskNerd

    Well, how about a new, real, pervasive threat to time and space? Sort of like when the Borg were introduced in Star Trek TNG--they weren't a recycled race from TOS. Daleks and Cybermen are iconic, sure, but they've been brought back too many times after being supposedly eradicated. <p> Heck, they can even be from the Doctor's past. It's not like we know everything about his nearly a millennium of life. (E.g., perhaps there was a third major faction in the Time War.) <p> We finally got to see The Shadow Proclamation, this past episode. More could be done with that. <p> Also, am I the only one who thought The Shadow Proclamation was an actual.. y'know.. proclamation? A declaration akin to the prime directive or something. Okay, that's one too many Star Trek references for one talkback post. G'night!

  • July 5, 2008, 1:21 a.m. CST

    do the brits celebrate the 4th?

    by bacci40

    when they were finally rid of us fucking americans?

  • July 5, 2008, 1:38 a.m. CST

    Brits celebrate on the 5th of July

    by palimpsest

    we call it "Ironic Distance Day"...

  • July 5, 2008, 1:43 a.m. CST

    And as for WHO

    by palimpsest

    There's mammoth speculation here in the UK that a) there'll be no regeneration at all; b) there'll be two Tennant Doctors (Blue Suit and Brown Suit); c) that the New Doctor will be James Nesbit; d) that the new Doctor will be Robert Carlyle; e) that the new Doctor will be David Morrissey. Basically, like William Goldman said, no-one knows anything. The lid is so secure on this it beggars belief in this spoilerific age. Good work RTD and gang...

  • July 5, 2008, 1:44 a.m. CST

    the drums

    by englishmidnight

    hey guys, here's one and i might be wrong but did anyone else notice that close up of donna on the stairs when she was in the shadow proclamtion, as the close moved in on her face, you heard the sound of drums, and when the girl gave her a bowl of water you saw a close up of her ring, looked rather like the ring taken from the masters ashes by a female hand, could donna be a vessle for the master or a female timelord in hiding, just like the doctor in family of blood, we shall see

  • July 5, 2008, 1:55 a.m. CST

    3-fold man

    by mr. flibble

    it's possible people are reading too much into this, the fact is, as a time traveller, the Doctor exists in the past present and future. So trying to explain the quote with the whole "splitting" rumour which has only shown 2 Doctors can be folly. I'd say the resolution remains in the "key" (feared reset button) Martha possesses, the hand and also the fact that the medusa cascade is "1 second" outside normal time. I will buy the 2 Docs theory as it'll give Rose closure, leaving her off in her dimension with anoher Doctor. If thats the case it will mean Donna or Martha to die, i'd go for Donna, speculation and insinuation has been she'd contribute something. This will be it. Plus Martha gives better basis for comeback storylines with the unit connections. I'm not convinced on the Donna as a TL thing and the whole "drums thing" is a leap, it was just music for dramatic effect as she contemplates her future. Donna as a Timelady...who knows...but i'm certain she's dieing. Last of the timelords = dramatic. Return of old Nemesis TL = cool. Return of all TL = loads of new storylines. Return of one vague female TL = meh. I'm interested about the Davros resolution, in old series we had villains escape to return another day. With the Master we had a tidy ending, I want to see how they deal with him...

  • July 5, 2008, 1:57 a.m. CST

    The Three-Fold Man...

    by Bill Clay

    Could that be an allusion to seeing Eccleston, Tennant, and the NEXT Doctor all appearing in the finale? Doctors 9, 10, and 11 all together? That would be a show stopper for RTD's swan song!

  • July 5, 2008, 1:59 a.m. CST

    That's a possibility...

    by palimpsest

    past, present and future...

  • July 5, 2008, 2:01 a.m. CST

    Doubt Tennant's going anywhere...

    by DarqueGuy

    I think there'll be a catch to the regeneration, either using the pickled hand or the key that Martha has or even Donna somehow creating a parallel universe (in which she sacrifices herself or something), since they've been driving home how she's drawn to having new worlds created around her in the last couple weeks. And put me in as someone who does NOT want Carlyle taking over if/when Tennant decides to leave. I like the suggestion for Alexander Siddig a lot, but my #1 choice would probably be James Callis (Baltar on BSG), who has proven he can do both high drama and over-the-top odd quirkiness.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:04 a.m. CST

    the drums

    by Ratburger

    Yeah, why not? Maybe she's Romana.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah, it's the hand

    by DeadPanWalking

    They've been telegraphing that all season. Also, you've got to love RTD for bring Dr. Who back into the public sphere and doing a fantastic update to a show that's complete critic-bait. Having said that, there's no one on the fact of the Earth that I would rather have in charge of this show than Stephen Moffet. Him taking over is the absolute best-case scenario.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:22 a.m. CST

    The hand problem

    by Matirius

    Problem with RTD is, I can just see Capt Jack saying, "Hang on! If we put the hand into the Heart of the TARDIS everything will be ok!" With no rhyme or reason whatsoever. We will be cheated people. Count on it. Plots as loose and stringy as a 1,000 year-old sweater are RTD's achilles heel.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:29 a.m. CST

    11th Doctor

    by FatherTed

    I am sure I have read somewhere that the 11th Doctor was going to be John Simm (Life on Mars, the Master in new season iii) he had agreed to take over. If he does it might make sense to the Dark Time Lord theme. and would certainly open a whole new avenue on where the doctor could go story line wise

  • July 5, 2008, 2:31 a.m. CST

    wow, Herc, thanks for this!

    by notspock2

    i think "chosen" was the last time i felt this way about a season finale (though that galactica one was a doozy, the cliff hanger prior to it was not of the OMFG variety...)<p> as others have said, serious kudos to everyone at the beeb for getting us this far spoiler free .. Impressively enough, the episode is getting show live in Trafalgar square tonight, it's amazing how in four years Who has gone from a laughing stock, to something once again of a national institution, whatever you might say about RTD's bingo card, some serious kudos are due for that alone...

  • July 5, 2008, 2:33 a.m. CST

    about the hand...

    by notgeorgekaplan

    here's one thought that suddenly popped into my mind. shortly after a timelord has regenerated, he can grow back lost limbs. when the master hijacked the tardis, he was alone with the jar shortly after he regenerated. what if he took the opportunity and cut off his own hand and switched it with the one in the jar for the same reason we all expect the hand still to be around: to help him (along with his ring) regenerating after a very fatal injury where a normal regeneration would not be possible? . . naaaaw....way too crazy idea

  • July 5, 2008, 2:55 a.m. CST

    RE: fatherted

    by sharpie

    I've heard somewhere that they're may bring the master back and do some sort of body swap thing where john simm is the doctor and david tennant is the master for the specials next year, but at this point, who knows?

  • July 5, 2008, 3 a.m. CST

    No one has mentioned...

    by Berksbear1

    ...that throughout her appearance on Who, Donna has constantly declared that she is just a "temp". I think RTD has been telling us all along that she is just a temporary form of another character.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:02 a.m. CST


    by notspock2

    you are my kind of crazy... i think it's still tennant's hand.. that would be a bit of a major backtrack needed to make that make sense <P>

  • July 5, 2008, 3:34 a.m. CST

    A bit of a misstep

    by 2LeggedFreak

    I'm not sure that this regeneration, which I think is a bluff, isn't going to misfire a bit on RTD.<br> <bt> Starting the finale with a cheesy deus ex machina to avoid a regeneration is going to disappoint people. I don't think you pull this kind of stunt with something as important as a regeneration and its not going to go down well.<br> <br> Nervous about this one.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:52 a.m. CST

    About Russell T Davies ...

    by Shan

    For a long time, Doctor Who was off the air and RTD was instrumental in not only bringing it back but also guaranteeing it a long future run. That's all I care about. Thanks RTD!

  • July 5, 2008, 3:53 a.m. CST

    Not long now, people!

    by BiggusDickus

    The pizza is sitting next to the Becks in the fridge, all ready for the tv highlight of the month.Have we been suckerpunched by RTD and Aunty Beeb all this time? Have they really sprung a 'surprise' regeneration on us? Or will it all turn out to be a great big 'reset button' ending?<p>Who knows? Who cares? It'll be damn fine telly regardless and I'll be right here afterwards to see what you good people thought. Oh, the anticipation! It's like being twelve all over again!

  • July 5, 2008, 3:53 a.m. CST

    FFS Herc

    by Mr Cairo

    i moused over the invisiotext expecting a who spoiler and got a 24 spoiler instead , how about a small warning next time. Anyway i think were all being fooled i suspect that tennant will continue as the doctor due to some handwavium plot device to do with his hand in a jar

  • July 5, 2008, 3:53 a.m. CST

    The promos Rock

    by emeraldboy

    and I love all that Davros stuff about the Ending approaches and so forth..

  • July 5, 2008, 3:55 a.m. CST

    As I said on the last TB (mild character spoilers)

    by Harrow

    they showed 8 seconds of tonights show on Richard & Judy, Sarah Jane is still alive and captured by the daleks, as is her son, and Mickey was there. Didn't make out anyone else, but they had a lot of hostages, so I guess Torchwood were there too, still alive. They still didn't know what to make of the regen cliff-hanger though.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:06 a.m. CST


    by BiggusDickus

    This particular Brit celebrated the 4th in style last night, as my pub was having an American Beer Festival.<p>Normally, you guys can't brew to save your lives but dear sweet Jesus, those Rogue and Sierra Nevada ales I drank last night more than made up for crap like Coors and Bud.<p>God bless America!

  • July 5, 2008, 4:06 a.m. CST

    They are being harvested...

    by emeraldboy

    To turn human into Daleks. thus enslaving the human race. forever.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:09 a.m. CST

    The veteran BBC broadcast journalist...

    by emeraldboy

    Charles Wheeler Died yesterday. A british giant has left us....

  • July 5, 2008, 4:37 a.m. CST

    RTD Speaks!!!

    by grimhandofdoom

    In one of our daily newspapers this morning! Theres two ways of looking at this eother DT going or RTD is extracting the urine. My view would be that it's time for a change all round with a new Doctor and companion but I reckon it's reset button time (Again) From the previews it looks like the Daleks have got their own death star as well!!!!!!

  • July 5, 2008, 4:39 a.m. CST

    Didn't Tennant..

    by DishyDish

    state on the Andrew Marr show a few weeks back thats he's done the Christmas special, therefore no change tonight?

  • July 5, 2008, 4:40 a.m. CST


    by DishyDish

    Was instrumental in gheyifying DW!!!

  • July 5, 2008, 4:47 a.m. CST

    my guess

    by BigEvil78

    2 tennants,one stays with rose the other continues as a timelord.(not sure about the 3rd,id love sylvester mccoy to appear) the faithful companion to die will be the tardis.... ....which donna will save in the end cos she is 'something new'.....something to do with the energy from when rose looked into the heart of the tardis and sporadic breaths of time energy from the doctor. i reckon donna is the manifestation of this energy or the host. Tennant will be the doctor one way or another at the end of the episode. final words will be what? what? what? in several pitches to set up the christmas special

  • July 5, 2008, 5:20 a.m. CST

    i need to add spaces to my talkbacks

    by BigEvil78

  • July 5, 2008, 5:20 a.m. CST


    by DECKERS

    Ol Rob looking a bit ropey these days, don't know if he has enough of the appeal with da ladies that made eccleston/tennant so popular (sorry guys, but thats showbiz these days!!!) Unless he plays it like Begby a la Trainspotting!:-))Wouldn't that be great? Broken bottle in one hand, giving it large to the Daleks!!! I reckon David is staying until the last of next years specials, after which the Moff takes the reins-but I'm ready to be proved wrong. Kudos to the BBC for keeping this spoiler free, very unusual these days...

  • July 5, 2008, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Past doctor?

    by Shoegeezer

    Tate was on a chatshow in the uK this week and was talking about how she knew nothing of the show's history but, in tonight's episode, she "couldn't believe she was standing next to..." she then cut herself off in a non-spoiler manner. What could that mean? Anyways, nice to see that there are some secrets and surprises left in the tv world. Whatever it is, everyone is going to be watching tonight.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:39 a.m. CST

    haven't looked forward to a TV show as much

    by Cedar_Room

    since.......I don't know when. This is fantastic that we get a pre-show talkback!! May I add my name behind the Alan Rickman for Doctor claim - that would be unbelievably brilliant, if somewhat unlikely. Also have no problem with Robert Carlyle if indeed he is going to do it. I would love to see Tennant continue somehow as his Dr really has been one of the best. My only worry is that with all this excitement and anticipation built up it doesn't just end flatly. Something big has to happen!! We either need a new Doctor, or the mulitple Doctor idea for this to be worthwhile. See you all later this evening!!

  • July 5, 2008, 5:40 a.m. CST

    July 5th Fucktard!!

    by magnius

    It doesn't air on July 4th you fucking moron! It's July 5th, try buying a calendar!

  • July 5, 2008, 5:41 a.m. CST

    No New Doctor

    by magnius

    Sorry to disappoint all you all, but DT is here to stay, no new Doctor until at least 2011.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:51 a.m. CST

    I thought the BBC offered Tennant a SHITLOAD of money

    by Big Dumb Ape

    I thought I had read reports that the BBC had offered Tennant a shitload of money to come back again. And when you consider the fact that a break was already factored in to keep Tennant happy, while he went off and did his play, I'm guessing that people are reading too much into any type of regeneration scene. Truth be told, if the man's going on a break, having something go totally wrong and fucked up in a pseudo regeneration moment or cliffhanger is the perfect excuse to explain away the year long break.<p>Hell, if they had REALLY gotten everyone on board -- I mean EVERYONE of cast and crew to keep their mouths shut to preserve any and all secrets -- and if they REALLY wanted to fuck with people's heads, I just think it would be hilarious if Tennant regenerated and turned into Robert Carlyl...only a year later you find out something was fucked up in the process, and thus he has to turn back into Tennant again. People talking about there being "two Tennants", so one can go off with Rose back to her parallel dimension -- that's an interesting idea as well. Not to mention the BBC would love to have some sort of backdoor open for Tennant to always reappear, even if it is a clone of himself or whatever. Frankly, I had said it in previous talkbacks and I'll say it again: I think Tennant is spectacular in the role, he is the heart and soul of what makes this modern incarnation work, and if I was running the BBC, I'd be offering the man one helluva check to keep him happy. Seriously, what's the deal with that? Is it THAT different over there? Don't British stars hold out or drive their prices up as much as American stars do here?

  • July 5, 2008, 6:05 a.m. CST

    The first scene from the last Doctor Who - regeneration scene -

    by richiejohnston

  • July 5, 2008, 6:08 a.m. CST

    And the new doctor is.......

    by football

    ...Dennis Hopper!

  • July 5, 2008, 6:11 a.m. CST

    Paul McGann is back???!!!

    by V'Shael

    As a flash back to the Time War, the sealing of the Medusa Cascade, and the event which triggered his regeneration into Christopher Eccleston? <p> Catherine Tate's "I couldn't believe I was standing next to..." line makes total sense, because McGann is famous, not just for Who.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:13 a.m. CST

    there is no new doctor

    by mikeyone

    tennant is stil there but will be cloned tonight, before rose dies and donna loses her memory and everything will begin again from just before donna turned up a year ago.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:13 a.m. CST

    First scene leak... hilarious!

    by V'Shael

    Gervais as a pudgy Doctor who just doesn't give a shit about anyone.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:19 a.m. CST


    by notgeorgekaplan

    I would love that! It always annoyed me, that we didn't get to see McGann regenerate into Eccleston

  • July 5, 2008, 6:31 a.m. CST

    incredible if we get a new Doctor...

    by danowen

    ... it really would be astonishing if RTD has kept that a secret. But I still doubt it. Maybe David Morrissey is the new Doc, and therefore his "guest starring" role in the Xmas special is subterfuge. It's actually David Tennant who's the guest star?

  • July 5, 2008, 6:35 a.m. CST

    DT guest star

    by sharpie

    that would actually make sense, danowen, DT has been said to be in the specials, that way he could be, and there could be a 'two doctors' kinda thing going on, which RTD said he wouldnt do, but if he's not doing the specials then that opens the door to all kinds of possibilities

  • July 5, 2008, 6:52 a.m. CST

    Richard Ayoade for the Doctor

    by EvilWizardGlick


  • July 5, 2008, 6:53 a.m. CST

    Matt Berry as the new Doctor

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Damned funny guy.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:54 a.m. CST

    David Hasslehoff...

    by emeraldboy

    is the new dr. joking. With all this secrecy surrounding Dr Who and it has been unprecendented. I think the new dr, if there is one is someone we dont know about. But it would have to be someone in keeping with the britishness of Dr who and yet at the same time make sense. I am going out on a limb here as much as anyone here. I am going to suggest, the name Patrick Stewart. but I would also go along with Anthony Head. Head is an obvious choice. Starred in Buffy and was already in Dr who. they re-introduced Sarah jane. another name is jack davenport. If tate said that she couldnt believe who she was standing next to. that indicates that they have pulled off one hell of a casting coup and got a big name US actor. Eddie Izzard? there is one problem with him and that is that he is a self confessed control freak in the writers room. There is one more name bit of a dark horse this one....David Walliams.... and Dr who has always been a bit camp. or as I said they have pulled off one hell of casting coup.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Noel Fielding for Doctor

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Style and wit.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:56 a.m. CST


    by The_Inside_Joke

    Wow, someone's a Mighty Boosh fan. I suppose somebody has to be.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:57 a.m. CST

    or its....

    by emeraldboy

    James Marsters......He was in Torchwood already in that brilliant season finale. where he kidnapped Captain Jack and left him stranded. it keeps the connection with Dr. who. or this year dr who regenerates into Dobby the house elf. Last year it was yoda.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:59 a.m. CST

    jesus. are those MAINSTREAM names the ONLY Brits known?

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Fuck me, doesn't anybody know anyone else in the Brit acting community? <p>Christ rehash a couple of actors and that is it. <p> I'm expecting someone to toss out Steve Coogan or Colm Meaney next.

  • July 5, 2008, 7 a.m. CST

    Emerald Boy... Do you not think Tate

    by V'Shael

    would have blown away by standing next to Paul "Withnail and I" McGann?

  • July 5, 2008, 7 a.m. CST

    The_Inside_Joke, and It Crowd.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    yep. Amazing those three play in both.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Colm Meany's not British.

    by V'Shael

    That's like saying George Bush is from Canada. <p> It's so wrong, it makes you look like an idiot.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Marc Warren darker Doctor

    by EvilWizardGlick

    he has the chops and is a bit darker.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:04 a.m. CST

    Chris Coghill an every man Doctor

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Another interesting Doctor.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:05 a.m. CST

    V'Shael, Sorry neither is Marsters

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Makes you a complete monkey ass sucking tool because the point wasn't that ALL choices were Brits. The idea was that mmeaney was one of the FEW recognized names. <p> Can you not discern the difference ?

  • July 5, 2008, 7:12 a.m. CST

    RIP Donna Noble.

    by The Gospel According to Bastardface

    That's my prediction.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:14 a.m. CST

    By the way, notice how Catherine Tate is on Graham Norton's show

    by The Gospel According to Bastardface

    James Nesbitt. I wonder why? Hmmm.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:19 a.m. CST

    Stephen Fry!

    by zer05um

    Now THAT would be interesting. Erudite, witty and oh so clever. Seriously, I'm just drooling in anticipation. Dear GODS, how the hell did they manage to keep this under wraps in this day and age. BRAVO Aunty - this is how it's done. As an aside, whilst I may not be the greatest fan of RTD's writing I can't praise him enough for bringing Who back and ensuring it is being passed on into the best hands. And Torchwood, which I have a real soft spot for. Thank you.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Life is ironic

    by earlfist

    Last week i posted the fact that only death or sex with nigella would make me miss tonights episode. Never tempt fate kids coz this afternoon i write this from my hospital bed. And i could cop it any moment. Apparently cigarettes are bad for you. Wish me well you lucky buggers. I will have to vacate this site and hope to god someone puts it on youtube.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Pretty cool off ya doing this Herc....

    by Gabba-UK

    geeks and nerds on both sides of the pond uniting. As a confirmed Tater (long before she turned up on Who) I was really worried I wouldn't make it to the series end because of her. But Tennent has been nothing short of superb all season and more than made up for her being there. And last weeks cliffhanger had got me as jazzed as everyone in the UK is about tonights show. Incedently, I work in a bookies here in UK and the money thats been thrown on bets for James McAvoy to be the next Doctor is staggering!! Either someone knows something or their going to look very stupid. Won't be McAvoy anyway. He gets his name above the title of blockbuster movie posters now. As good as a Who he'd make, there's no way the BBC could afford him now.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:36 a.m. CST

    RTD finally back on track with Daleks

    by Fourthwall

    But he had lost it for a while. Dalek stop motion parody below.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:36 a.m. CST

    Johnny Vegas as the new doctor!

    by nobletoast13

    or Norris from corry perhaps?

  • July 5, 2008, 7:46 a.m. CST

    5 hours to go!

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    This is easily the most excited I've been about Who since it returned in 2005. Well done to RTD and Co for giving us this buzz, and for amazingly still keeping what happens secret.<p>I'll be back in 6 hours or so with my thoughts. It'll likely be difficult to write a review tonight without spoilers in it. Does anyone still want us to bother doing this, or are you accepting that there's bound to be spoilers ahoy later?

  • July 5, 2008, 7:52 a.m. CST

    The Doc's most feaithful companion is the Tardis.

    by The True Priapic

    Said it.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:13 a.m. CST

    True Priapic

    by Oomlot

    Damn that is a good point. But somehow I can't imagine it actually dying, since it's the last one and all. Of course that's only 'apparently' it's the last one, I mean there could be other ones that are just lying around. Hell it could even have a child Tardis. I still hope that Robert Carlyle isn't the new doctor, I hate that guy and probably won't want to watch it.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:32 a.m. CST

    There will be spoilers all over the net

    by V'Shael

    once it has aired. I'll be going dark until I get it from the torrents. No phone, no GSM, just a good book and some pizza. Once I've seen it, I'll be back online to see peoples reactions.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:39 a.m. CST

    sorry to hear that earlfist...

    by Gabba-UK

    get well soon.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:54 a.m. CST

    di di di dum di di di dum di di di dum der der

    by 2LeggedFreak

    di di dum di di di dum di di di dum der der <br> <br> wooo whoooo whooooo whoooo der der der<br> der der, der der der, der, der der der,di di dum<br> <br> di di dum di di di dum di di di dum der der <br>

  • July 5, 2008, 8:55 a.m. CST

    I always wanted Bill Nighy as Doctor.

    by DerLanghaarige

  • July 5, 2008, 9:12 a.m. CST


    by zer05um

    There's the rift machine with the coral-like growth around it in Torchwood to consider. When it activates it seems to be rather TARDIS-like in motion and sound.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:16 a.m. CST

    About the new Doctor...

    by Nodoordonotthereisnotry

    This is what I would like to see in the future. Somehow, Tennant stays as a Doctor until Hugh Laurie finishes with House M.D. Then Hugh takes over the role, thus making the comment by Elizabateth about the "older" Doctor more meaningful.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:16 a.m. CST

    Micheal Jackson

    by crashedastronaut

    as the new doctor.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:26 a.m. CST

    There's something bizarre about going to a footy tournament

    by Harrow

    to watch my nephew play (he scored a blinder in a 3-0 win, but never made the knockout stages) and hearing all the parents discussing what will happen tonight, and whether Tennant is staying, and even about going on the internet desperately hunting for spoilers (of course they didn't know that's what they're called). RTD deserves massive praise for turning Who back into a massive national again so quickly!

  • July 5, 2008, 9:28 a.m. CST

    Last minute predictions

    by redrain85

    Tennant leaving: It's well known that he's still appearing in the forthcoming specials. There's a remote chance these specials could be taking place before Journey's End, but I doubt it. Not to mention the stories about the Beeb offering Tennant a fuckton of money to stay.<br><br> The regeneration: I'm worried the rumor about Tennant splitting in two (due to a botched regeneration that involves the hand), and one of them living happily ever after with Rose, is probably true. (The terrible Doctor's daughter episode already set a precedent, for a Time Lord regenerating without changing appearance.) This would be an incredibly lame cop-out, but what else is new. RTD is a master at deus ex machina endings. As for the "threefold man" comment by Dalek Caan, I'll be waiting with the rest of you to find out if this ends up leading to anything. It would be a pleasant surprise if this became a multiple Doctor episode. But, somehow I really doubt it. These last two eps must have been incredibly expensive to make, with all the effects and guest stars. Getting Davison, McGann, Eccleston, or McCoy would add too much to the already sky high costs.<br><br> The most faithful companion who dies: It won't be the Tardis. Without the Tardis, there'd be no show. It won't be Sarah Jane or K9, they've still got Sarah Jane Adventures to make. (Not to mention the outrage, if Sarah Jane dies.) It won't be Martha or Mickey, because they're going to appear on Torchwood as regulars next year. Captain Jack is immortal, so he's out. That leaves Rose and Donna. Somehow, I doubt RTD could bear to kill off his precious Rose. So Donna is a likely candidate. Of course, RTD could pull a fast one by having any one of the companions die: but then, after the inevitable reset button, that companion comes back to life.<br><br> But I'm going to make a crazy suggestion here. If we take the "faithful companion" line more figuratively than literally: then you could argue that Davros is the Doctor's most faithful companion. Think about it. He's known the Doctor longer than anyone, except for Sarah Jane. He's been a constant "companion", always following the Doctor throughout his regenerations. I hope that Davros isn't killed off permanently, though. I'd hate for him to come back now, only to disappear again.<br><br> What's special about Donna: I doubt she's a Time Lord who used the Chameleon Arch, in order to hide out on Earth. Or that she's somehow related to the Doctor. It's probably more like the Universe just happened to pick a nobody like Donna, to take on a pivotal role. Kind of like how the Doctor is supposed to be Time's champion. And the Trickster (probably some kind of Eternal working for the Black Guardian, like The Shadow from "Armageddon Factor") somehow discovered that Donna would become a focal point, like Sarah Jane was.<br><br> Who's inside the Supreme Red Dalek: Well, it wasn't Harriet Jones. (Too bad, I would have enjoyed that.) I don't think it's the Emperor Dalek from series one, either. But I'd guess that the Supreme Dalek is the only one who isn't a true Dalek (not cloned from one of Davros' cells). And it's probably someone that the Doctor once knew, judging from what's been said between it and Davros.<br><br> What happens to the captured humans: I don't think they're going to be converted to Daleks. While Davros wouldn't be above harvesting other races to create Daleks, I think that right now he wants to keep them "pure" and loyal. Cloning them from his own tissue was probably the best way to achieve that. (I believe the Red Supreme Dalek is the lone exception.) It's more likely that they're going to be tested to see if they'll be useful as worker slaves for the Crucible. Useful people go to work, useless ones die.<br><br> What's the deal with the Crucible and the 27 planets: The name Crucible suggests it's some kind of factory, that forges something. Probably Dalek ships. But it's got to be more than that. It's what pulled the planets into the Medusa Cascade, for example. And, in a nod to the "Pirate Planet" (the mention of Calufrax was the obvious tip-off), Davros is likely using the gravitational forces of the planets as an "engine" in perfect balance, to create enough energy to power the Crucible. I'm guessing that since Davros has created his own little pocket universe (they're occupying space one second ahead of the rest of the universe), he's intending to destroy the existing universes and replace them with his own. Which is where the Crucible comes in.<br><br> But, naturally, Martha will use that "key" to somehow reset everything and they'll all live happily ever after. With RTD, you can count on it.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:39 a.m. CST

    Get Ready For A New Doctor

    by Russell T Davis

    I am pretty sure that we will see a new Doctor introduced today -however as always the regeneration will render him pretty much helpless for the whole episode hence the need for his companions to take over the battle with the Daleks. The reason I say this is that RTD wanted to do this with Chris Eccelstone's dr but word got out and he was furious.The level of secrecy is phenominal esp when the Controller of BBC1 has not even seen the episode, marked individual scripts etc. Do not be suprised if all those pictures of David Tennant filming the specials are all a smoke screen - he will be leaving tonight for sure : it's been hinted throughout this series ( particulary in the Ood episode where it's mentioned that his 'song is nearly at an end'. And Bad Wolf = regeneration (as per series 1) RTD is clearing the decks for Moffatt to make his own mark on the show -that means a new Doctor and new companions. Whoever takes over tonight one thing's for sure -this is going to be a cracking finale.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Doctor's daughter was a good one!

    by Blok Narpin

    "(The terrible Doctor's daughter episode already set a precedent, " Are you kidding? The Doctor's Daughter was a great episode!!

  • July 5, 2008, 9:48 a.m. CST

    A name from left field for the 11th Dr.

    by FatherTed

    I have seen Eddie Izzard's name chucked in a few times

  • July 5, 2008, 9:51 a.m. CST

    russel t!

    by notspock2

    i thought the ood's song was a song of captivity/sadness, his song ending might be the easing of his sadness, say at the destruction of a planet.. <P> You know, if the daleks can steal a planet, or 27, and they can now break the lock on the time war.. if they put those two things together maybe they could bust out skaro and gallifrey... too much? probably.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Clearing the decks for Moffat

    by O_Goncho

    Is something they'd do immediately before he's set to take over, surely? We've still got a whole other year of RTD to survive :(

  • July 5, 2008, 10:07 a.m. CST


    by lynxpro

    Sierra Nevada is pretty much what us NorCal'ers drink. Well, Sam Adams too even if it is an East Coast Bastard beer named after such a historical bastard at that.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:11 a.m. CST

    imagine Steve Coogan as the Doc...

    by lynxpro

    The TARDIS would be filled with hookers and blow. You know what? I kinda like that thought.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:15 a.m. CST

    just seen this posted elsewhere..

    by notspock2

    ALEXIS DENISOF for doctor. i think we could go with that if Hugh Laurie wasn't available.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Law firm of Shag, Snog, Tosser and Buggery.

    by Uncapie

    At your service!

  • July 5, 2008, 10:30 a.m. CST

    All bets are off

    by ScotiaNova

    Apparantly bookmakers William Hill have stopped taking bets on who number 11 will be as there has been a suspicious number of large bets on David Morrissey filling the shoes.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:32 a.m. CST

    The Handsome 12th Doctor, just one problem......

    by axcel1

    I WANT SPOILERS!!!!!! BIG SPOILERS, HUGE SPOILERS, GIGANTIC SPOILERS!!!!! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! I love spoilers, they are my lifeeeeeeeeee!!!

  • July 5, 2008, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Oh, everyone, one more thing I love....

    by axcel1


  • July 5, 2008, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Why do people still think River

    by V'Shael

    was talking about a future incarnation? <p> Surely it was obvious that when she was talking about young and old, she still meant Tennant. No? <p> I thought that was bleedin obvious but apparently not.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST

    please god i dont want to be disappointed!

    by BigEvil78

    i have never looked forward to a television show so much. i am working till 9 in my gym and (although i already planned to)i have been asked by some members to put bbc1 on instead of the music channels tonight so they can watch while sitting on a bike/running etc. who would of ever thought DW would ever be in the general publics conciousness to such an extent

  • July 5, 2008, 10:45 a.m. CST


    by Oomlot

    Wouldn't know about that myself, I watched like, the first 3 episodes of torchwood before I came to the conclusion that the doctor's universe without the doctor, was simply without the doctor. I like it when Cpt'n Jack crosses over, but mainly because he was a Doctor Who companion, and that whole 'not now captain' thing is funny. Wish I was in England to actually watch this episode on TV. I'll have to wait a while before I can check the reaction. Should be fun, or a nightmare, not much inbetween

  • July 5, 2008, 10:50 a.m. CST

    I won't be angry if Tennant stays.

    by V'Shael

    Or if he leaves. <p> I'll be angry if RTD fucks up the script somehow. <p> That would include using a MASSIVE reset button, like last years Master finale. That would, indeed, annoy me. <p> But for the first time in a long time, I actually believe RTD will pull this off, and it will be a great episode. <p> It's a tribute to the man that he could make a cynical bastard like me optimistic about tonights episode.

  • July 5, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Somebody mentioned the level of Secrecy and they are right

    by emeraldboy

    for a number of reasons. one ecclestones deaprture. two. all the buzz about the companions. and the denials that followed especially billie piper and Freema Aygeman. most importantly three. at the start of season 4 Catherine Tate blabbed about David tennant and his dithering about whether he was going to leave the tardis. Tennant was forced to come out and admit that he would be leaving at the end of series 4. and where are we? at the end of series 4. and one more thing I would say that secrecy is down to one simple fact. there was endless speculation about RTD's future and that drove him mad. RTD got the dr he wanted. New dr, new head writer, new companion. all new who.....

  • July 5, 2008, 11:18 a.m. CST

    And the NEW Doctor could be.....

    by football

    .... Kevin Spacey!!

  • July 5, 2008, 11:20 a.m. CST


    by axcel1

    I won't be angry and I'm people. I might be sad to see Tennant go. Here's hoping for rest buttons, cop-outs, cheesy deus ex machina, I want it all!!!!!

  • July 5, 2008, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Oh Canada!

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Us Canadians are waiting eagerly for this as well... hurry up, torrents! I have a friend who's a HUGE WHO fan but she's been on holiday so she hasn't seen the last two episodes yet and she's stayed religiously spoiler free! I can't wait to see her face when she watches!!! And glad to see the RTD love... like many, I agree that some of his writing has been weak... but to bring back The Doctor with such a massive level of success? Kudos! And BigEvil78... a bunch of fit, sweaty men watching the season finale of Doctor Who together? Are you SURE you're at work or are you attending RTD's season finale party? KIDDING! I jest! Haha!

  • July 5, 2008, 11:32 a.m. CST

    ONLY 1 Hour 10mins till WHO Time!!

    by TheTaf

    I’ve just checked and Who will be on at the earlier time of 6.40pm today. The episode has a longer running time this week of 65mins (Wahooooooo). My Theories: 1. DT will regenerate 2. Donna will DIE 3. We will have multiple Doctors 4. One of them will definitely be either Christopher Ecclestone or Robert Carlyle 5. Someone will use the “Haagen-Dazs” Key (or whatever it’s called) and reset time so everything goes back to normal and DT will be the doctor again.

  • July 5, 2008, 11:37 a.m. CST


    by Chriss

    It's painfully obvious that they are going to kill her. "Journey's End" refers to Donna, not the Dr. RTD (& bless him for bringing the show back) uses foreshadowing as subtly as a terrorist uses a suicide bomber.

  • July 5, 2008, 11:42 a.m. CST


    by Chriss

    Oh and one more thing. While DT was okay in the role, he was way to young and/or naive/innocent. From Hartnell to Tennant, each regeneration seems to be getting younger. They'll have a teenager playing the part soon.

  • July 5, 2008, 11:42 a.m. CST


    by lynxpro

    Please learn to spell, peeps. And just to pre-empt the other commonly misspelled name, that would be Peter DAVISON. Oh wait, forgot another...STEVEN Moffat, or just call him "The Moff" or Steven Phukkin Moffat.

  • July 5, 2008, 11:45 a.m. CST


    by BigEvil78

    not just the sweaty men but for once i personally wont be checking out the fit young ladies who also frequent my gym,but will be rooted to the tv.believe me that is like an alternate universe!!

  • July 5, 2008, 11:45 a.m. CST

    just watched "time crash" again, it would

    by notspock2

    Make me happy if later tonight there were lots of people misspelling Davison. less than an hour to go!

  • July 5, 2008, 11:49 a.m. CST


    by Pikestar

    I have thoroughly enjoyed David Tennant as the Doctor and would be sorely disappointed to see him leave. That said I was thoroughly disappointed when Eccleston turned into Tennant so I'm open minded. Yes RTD's plots have been loose but respect to the man for bringing us to where we are today. I never in my adult life thought I could be so excited about a finale. Just praying it's not another Phantom menace

  • July 5, 2008, 11:52 a.m. CST

    If you look at pictures on youtube...

    by football

    It's clear that Tennant, Donna, Rose and the Tardis are on a beach. This scene hasn't appeared yet so it must mean Tennant doesn't regenerate. doesn't regenerate

  • July 5, 2008, 11:58 a.m. CST

    We should not forget

    by Life Proof

    that Tennant is under contract until the end of 2009. Likely he will be the Doctor for the four specials coming out that year since there will be no series.

  • July 5, 2008, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Could Sarah Jane be the companion to die?

    by SpyGuy

    In the latest DOCTOR WHO MAGAZINE, Elisabeth Sladen talks about "Journey's End" being her last appearance on DOCTOR WHO. With everyone expecting Donna or Rose to die, could RTD make us old-school Whovians cry like fucking babies by killing off Sarah Jane? <p>You know, I do believe he could...</p>

  • July 5, 2008, 12:17 p.m. CST


    by kwisatzhaderach

    Doubtful, she's filming the second series of The Sarah-Jane Adventures at the moment.

  • July 5, 2008, 12:19 p.m. CST

    I think the campanion to die will be

    by emeraldboy

    Martha jones.

  • July 5, 2008, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Forest of the Dead

    by History101

    If they intended/knew that Tennant was out, why write Forest of the Dead the way they did. It gave the appearance of the doctor meeting this future companion with the same face... or am I overreading?

  • July 5, 2008, 12:29 p.m. CST

    10 minutes to go...

    by football

  • July 5, 2008, 12:31 p.m. CST

    radio silence starting in

    by RaveX


  • July 5, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST


    by BiggusDickus

    Damned fine stuff! I tried five Sierra Nevada ales with 'Torpedo IPA', 'Southern Hemisphere Harvest' and 'Bigfoot' being my favourites. <p>And in my humble opinion, any country that can produce something as utterly gorgeous as 'Rogue Chocolate Stout' deserves to be the leader of the free world...<p>Anyway, nearly 'Who' time kiddies! Ten minutes to go! See you back here for the TB later!

  • July 5, 2008, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Looking back

    by redrain85

    @Blok Narpin: It wasn't so much the story of the episode as a whole. It was the ending of "The Doctor's Daughter" that ticked me off. We've never seen a Time Lord regenerate, while still keeping the same body. It broke a long-standing tradition, without any explanation as to why it happened.<br><br> @tricky dick: Don't get me wrong. I appreciate what RTD did for Who fans, by bringing the show back from the dead and making it popular again. And when he wants to, he can write a cracking good script. I'm just concerned that he's bitten off more than he can chew here, with his "swan song" of an exit. We'll find out, shortly!

  • July 5, 2008, 12:42 p.m. CST

    It was the hand that saved him!!!

    by football

  • July 5, 2008, 12:46 p.m. CST

    EXTERMINERAN!! Wow Daleks speak German!!

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Thats was cool lol

  • July 5, 2008, 12:46 p.m. CST


    by naughty pirate

    i knew they would use that fucking hand !!!!!! nice to see rose's milf

  • July 5, 2008, 12:55 p.m. CST


    by DerLanghaarige

    In the German dubbing they always said 'eliminieren' instead of 'exterminieren', as far as I know.

  • July 5, 2008, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Ok Mr. Saxon

    by FakeTHulce

    I am sitting here in Texas and cannot wait to get the torrent. Spill the beans

  • July 5, 2008, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Guess who overslept

    by proper

    I missed the start by 10 mins,

  • July 5, 2008, 1:02 p.m. CST

    Reality Bomb?

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:05 p.m. CST


    by proper

    Neverrrrr.I'm taping it anyway :),it's just if I miss the first 5 mins it's a write off.Heres what I'm watching in the meantime,,,enjoy the show everybody

  • July 5, 2008, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Dissolves all life?

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Dissolves EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ANYTIME? Dissolves Reality?

    by Pawprint

    Only Daleks survive.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:08 p.m. CST

    been trying to post this thanks guys

    by earlfist

    not the big c but mighty thrombo. Apparently smoking drinking sitting on you arse watching tv is not good for you. Who'd of thought it. Enjoy the episode and i hope someone puts it on youtube otherwise i may have to read one of those damn reviews.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:09 p.m. CST

    If only the Daleks survive..

    by Pawprint

    Aren't they gonna be pretty fucking bored?

  • July 5, 2008, 1:09 p.m. CST

    And what will they eat?

    by Pawprint

    They haven't thought it through...

  • July 5, 2008, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Osterhagen Key...

    by Pawprint

    BOOM! Earth self-destruct button... the Final Option..

  • July 5, 2008, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Doctors Soul revealed...

    by Pawprint

    Yawn... "The children of time are violent..." big deal.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Davros has shown the Doctor 'himself'..

    by Pawprint

    The man who keeps on running, too ashamed to look back.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:15 p.m. CST

    "Detonate the Reality Bomb!"

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Ah well.. he's got 200 'rels' to stop it..

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Two Doctors..

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Donna has sabotaged the Reality Bomb..

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Regens into who?

    by XXLgamer

  • July 5, 2008, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Donna is suddenly a genius - Now she's Part Timelord!

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Doctor Donna..

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST

    It seems Donna is now the Doctor's equal..

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Somebody, anybody, please..............

    by axcel1

    Tell me what's happened so far, it will be another 5 to 6 hours before I get to see it. Tell me and I'll put you in my will.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:21 p.m. CST


    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Thjis is so funny :)

  • July 5, 2008, 1:21 p.m. CST

    It's all about the Hand...

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:21 p.m. CST

    THREE Doctors?!

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:22 p.m. CST

    It seems Donna is now capable of...

    by Pawprint

    A bad David Tennant impression.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Did he regen into someone new?

    by XXLgamer

  • July 5, 2008, 1:23 p.m. CST

    "I can't tell you what I'm thinking right now"

    by FakeTHulce

    Great line

  • In a flashy anti-climax...

  • July 5, 2008, 1:24 p.m. CST


    by FakeTHulce

  • July 5, 2008, 1:24 p.m. CST


    by FakeTHulce

  • July 5, 2008, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Tried to save Davros! Doctor is "Destroyer of Worlds!"

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Bye-Bye Daleks!

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:25 p.m. CST

    K-9 is back...

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Misery's ALIVE!!!!

    by Skywise

    Sorry... :)

  • July 5, 2008, 1:27 p.m. CST

    It takes six to fly the TARDIS..

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Summat's got to go wrong now...

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Everyone is far too happy...

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Not sure ab out this lol

  • July 5, 2008, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Love the music

    by FakeTHulce

    What is it while the "towing" is happening?

  • July 5, 2008, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Not sure, but the music was good.

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:31 p.m. CST

    "No you plum! He's called Tony."

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Rose booted off with alernate Doctor into alternate dimension..

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Rose and Alternate Doctor swap spit...

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST

    They're getting it on in another dimension!

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Donna's going wibble - all that intelligence..

    by Pawprint

    To much... Gonna die?

  • July 5, 2008, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Or is he gonna ditch her?

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:38 p.m. CST

    She's been memory wiped.

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:39 p.m. CST

    "They will never forget her, while she will never remember.."

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:40 p.m. CST

    "Yeah, see ya.."

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:42 p.m. CST

    And that's yer lot!

    by Pawprint

    Nothing earth-shattering or suprising there...

  • July 5, 2008, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Cybermen Return at Christmas!

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Fantastic Ending

    by Plinglebob

    And for once, RTD didn't ruin the emotional moment.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Oh boy

    by ElPaw

    Daleks, Cybermen, Cybermen, Daleks, repeat ad nauseam

  • July 5, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Awww. That was all rather good in the end!

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Well done Russell :)

  • July 5, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    This Christmas, take home a Cyberman!

    by Pawprint

  • July 5, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Mr. Saxon

    by FakeTHulce

    I cried too, and I hope to do the same

  • July 5, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Plus a quick xmas teaser with the cybermen

    by football

  • July 5, 2008, 1:45 p.m. CST

    And Bernard Cribbins does rock.

    by Col. Tigh-Fighter

    He should be the new Companion lol

  • July 5, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST

    good ep not great ep

    by LordMyst

    so next christmas cybermen very original

  • July 5, 2008, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Nice to see Davros back..and done so well..

    by Rameses

    But most of that episode was a load of shouty ,Bollocks!

  • July 5, 2008, 1:49 p.m. CST

    All fairly predictable...

    by Pawprint

    But done with emotion and style... still; bit of a let-down.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:50 p.m. CST

    A couple of weeks ago...

    by emeraldboy

    I made a prediction about donna. I think it was along the lines of that the dr would have to wipe her memory and that all her memories of the dr would be wiped out. I am amazed how right I was.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:54 p.m. CST


    by FakeTHulce

    Won't they be done by Moffat now or is it still RTD?

  • July 5, 2008, 1:55 p.m. CST

    What about K9 and Captain Jack?

    by WazMan

    What happened to them?

  • July 5, 2008, 1:55 p.m. CST


    by FakeTHulce

    It was so sad to see Donna not only realize that she was going to forget her memories with the Doctor, but also the realization that she was going to go back to being the self centered, selfish, lazy tart that she was.

  • July 5, 2008, 1:55 p.m. CST


    by discomatic

    Would someone please give your American cousins a quick rundown of what happened?

  • July 5, 2008, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Capt Jack

    by FakeTHulce

    again has the best lines throughout the episode

  • July 5, 2008, 1:58 p.m. CST

    WHo will be the new companion...

    by emeraldboy

  • July 5, 2008, 1:59 p.m. CST


    by Ray Gamma


  • July 5, 2008, 1:59 p.m. CST

    Guys, come on.................

    by axcel1

    Why didn't someone tell us american jerks we could have watched it on the web live. I only caught the last 10, maybe 13 minutes of it. I saw it where everyone was standing around the TARDIS console cheering, everyone going home, donna getting her memory wiped, the doctor leaving Earth in the rain. I'm guessing "The Three-Fold Man" was, the Doctor, the Doctor, and Donna. Sad to see her go, Ms Tate was great!!!!!

  • July 5, 2008, 2 p.m. CST


    by Ray Gamma


  • July 5, 2008, 2 p.m. CST

    longer running time too

    by ahdvd

    It was 65 minutes long as opposed to the usual 50 minutes, wonder if america will get an extended time slot when it airs there or if they will trim it down.

  • July 5, 2008, 2 p.m. CST

    That was shit...

    by UltraMeerkat

    ...really shit. A massive turd squeezed out RTD's hack arse.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:01 p.m. CST


    by Ray Gamma


  • July 5, 2008, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Who will the new companion be...

    by emeraldboy

    Sally Sparrow. Maybe all the people who liked blink will stop going on about it. All the tate haters should now be eating humble pie.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Oh, BTW................

    by axcel1

    I want SPOILERS GALORE, please, give me spoilers, thank you very much.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Oh what a load of crap

    by Chriss

    None of the companions died? He doesn't actually regenerate but it goes into the hand? What a load of massive suckage. Why did I expect anything less than RTD. Sure, thanks for bringing the show back, but your writing sucks.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:05 p.m. CST

    That was utter pap

    by metaluna

    For a minute I though I was watching a Brannpn Braga written Star Trek:Voyager episode there was so much pseudo science babble flying around. It was in the end a load of childish rubbish with the Tardis towing (?) the Earth through space at lightspeed or something and RTD using every made up bit of scibabble to undig him out of the holes he wrote himself in. Utter rubbish written by a writer whose just about good enough to write an end of the peir panto. Thank heavens he's gone.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:07 p.m. CST

    'Hand'-Doctor should have been Eccleston

    by supertoyslast

    The original Doctor even said "that's me - when we first met". I wonder if Eccleston was asked to return?

  • July 5, 2008, 2:09 p.m. CST

    best ever ending

    by madcapmonster

    Some will complain that this was not the most fantastic ending to a Doctor Who series ever, some people are also insane, now I am not saying that you would have to be insane not to think this is the best ending ever, but you should seek some help just to be sure

  • July 5, 2008, 2:10 p.m. CST

    oh dear

    by grimhandofdoom

    That was nearly as bad as last years climax. The regeneration was a complete waste and I could see what was happening with Donna a mile off. Also, why did Dalek Kahn go to all that trouble to bring back the Daleks and Davros only to turn against them?

  • July 5, 2008, 2:14 p.m. CST

    I'm sorry, so sorry...FANTASTIC!

    by Thunder Child

    All i want to say is is that over the course of the series, Catherine Tate totally blew all her critics away. She acted the socks off everyone. She was bloody fantastic! Sadly we have Martha and Mickey to 'look forwards too' in Torchwood next year. Just as well its only 5 episodes long.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:22 p.m. CST

    usual RTD panto

    by G100

    Sorry he just doesn't have the writing chops to tie together a massive plot with all those characters without resorting to the cheapest nonsense "explanations" and "solutions" imaginable.<p> <p>Exactly the same as the RTD Master debacle. Started very promising and descended into pure farce by the end. He didn't even have the Balls to kill Donna.<p> <p>I don't expect hard science fiction from Doctor Who and certainly not from RTD but this was just throwing everything at the screen and hoping something sticks.<p> <p>Fantasy panto masquerading as science fiction.<p> <p>I'll admit though by RTD standards it wasn't his worst Ep. (hardly great praise though) Some things were still interesting despite the Pantomime feel that hung over almost everything and whatever crimes against writing RTD may have committed he STILL got Who back on the screens and he always deserves much praise for that least. But watching this final Ep I can truthfully say thank god Moffat is taking over.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST

    New companion: Honeysuckle Weeks

    by MilesGloriosus

    Just because I miss seeing her ...

  • July 5, 2008, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Kind of disappointing

    by MrJJonz

    Not a massive Dr Who fan and only generally catch an episode every now and then but the last few episodes had drwan me in and I was quite enjoying it. . .but I just felt this episode was lacking compared to them. The Dr regenerating enough to fix himself? Seemed abit of a cop-out. If the Daleks destroyed the universe what would they do? And the whole someone will die - no they won't. The build up had so much promise. . .

  • July 5, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    What I loved about bleach's davros...

    by emeraldboy

    was that it had hints of palpatine as well as lecter. and He rocked in the Promos. Great performance.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:39 p.m. CST

    Thank God there was no 'reset button'!

    by BiggusDickus

    I was convinced that the beetle thing from a couple of weeks back would be behind it all and that we'd be given another 'Donna goes back in time and sorts it all out' ending. Fair play to RTD. Wa-a-ay better than the awful Master finale last year (why cast John Simms when Derek Jacobi was in the room? WHY???)<p>Anyway, roll on 2010 and please Mister Moffat, no more Billie Piper EVER - those teeth are just far too frightening!

  • July 5, 2008, 2:40 p.m. CST


    by Horror Freak

    and that's all i have until i see the episode much later tonight... i didn't want to lose chris, but i have come to love david and i really really don't want to lose him... very sad...

  • July 5, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Review abridged

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I've just emailed a review to Herc, and have now realised I could have just posted it here in the talkback instead. So until it pops up later on here's a teaser trailer for it -<p>Oh Lordy.....<br>David Tennant regenerates into David Threlfall.....<br>Verve and fun.....<br>Menace.....<br>Blow the crap out us.....<br>Brilliant bonkers.....<br>The sexiest thing I've seen on telly.....<br>You'll be amazed!!!

  • July 5, 2008, 2:44 p.m. CST


    by AD_Skinner

    That made no sense whatsoever. Profoundly stupid, predictable and nonsensical garbage. That pitiful crap is in no way, shape or form the programme I know as Doctor Who. It's the anti-Doctor Who.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:44 p.m. CST

    luckily I'd prepared myself for the letdown.

    by TinSpider

    It was great up until Davies realised he had to start explaining stuff then it fell apart. I pissed myself at the earth being towed through space and the only effect it had was to make a few papers fly about.. maybe the odd cupboard fall over.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST

    We were right...

    by Charlie & Tex

    ...about the whole "splitting the Doctor thing" and one of them living happily ever after. We're only right every now and again, so we;re entitled to feel a little smug when it happens...

  • July 5, 2008, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Absolute balls

    by kwisatzhaderach

    RTD managed to completely obliterate Rose's storyline and Donna's storyline in just under 5 minutes. Way to go.

  • July 5, 2008, 2:54 p.m. CST

    should have seen Adric...

    by Deak the Geek

    in the montage...would have been cool

  • July 5, 2008, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Errrrrrrrrrrrrm Liked it

    by TheTaf

    **BEWARE SOME SPOILERS** OK so the regeneration thing was a total cop out!! But I was kidding myself thinking they would change the Doctor. I had heard rumours about DT in a blue suit and they turned out to be true. But the two doctor’s thing didn’t really have the effect I wanted. Maybe because of budget restrictions but I really wanted them to play off each other more. What did work for me was DOCTOR DONNA!! I'm gna put my hands up and say I was a doubter when I first saw Catherine Tate as the Docs Companion but "DIDNT SHE DO WELL". I mean she got better with each episode and was at her best in the finale. Well Done Catherine Good JOB!! The scene in the tardis with everyone was Brilliant and the ending WICKED!! Bringing it back to Bad Wolf Bay!! The Docs Heart break, 2nd time in the same place!! WOW!! AWESOME I liked that rose got a doctor to keep and grow old with!! IN fact I liked a lot of things about this episode!! Pretty much everything bar the regeneration cop out!! RTD no matter what people say, you bought back DOCTOR WHO and I Love You for it. People may talk about other writers being better than you etc but the fact is they wouldn’t be writing Shit!! If you didn’t bring the show back. From All Doctor Who fans THANK YOU!! Wish you all the best in the future!! (Hope he comes back to pen a few eps here and there!!)

  • July 5, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST

    David Tennant got a sweet deal now

    by Evansvisualarts

    David Tennant got a sweet deal now because even when his doctor finally regenerates into a new body he can still come back into the show and the fact he gets older won't matter because he exists in only that body in the other universe with Rose. I bet you he will pop up in the show long after the tenth doctor has gone..............unless the human/time lord doctor becomes a nemesis, all that knowledge but with the human destructive streak to taint him, make him a bit like the Master. Who knows?

  • July 5, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    If he had of regenrated...

    by Evansvisualarts

    If he had of regenrated then I think Sean Bean, old Mr Sharpe, would of been a good new doctor

  • July 5, 2008, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Mike Tyson for the new Doctor

    by AhnoldsBicep

    "Usually I don't let women into the Tardis unless I fornicate with them... so you should leave, unless you want to... you know"

  • July 5, 2008, 3:07 p.m. CST

    I still don't get ...

    by reaper28

    is there or isn't there a Time Beetle still on Donna? In last week's episode, the assistant at The Shadow Proclamation said there was something on her back. And what about Dalek Kaan's prediction that "The Doctor's most faithful companion will die" ... or was that Donna even though she didn't actually die? Totally agree with Mr Saxon: Bernard Cribbins was superb and had me reaching for the Kleenex - and not in a "Tingly Nether Regions" way either ... Mark my words, we haven't seen the last of Donna. I'd love to see her go completely batshit (Jokershit?) from the Doctor's mind crammed into hers. Now that would be *very* cool.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Not shit - but not very good either.

    by Lloytron

    SPOILER WARNING <p> This was OK but a let down after the set up and the previous episodes.<p> IMO the Threefold Man thing was a good idea but handled badly. Donna touches the hand (Which she didn't actually touch, cos it was in a glass container) and she gets the Doctor's mind (which needs to be activated by being shot later on?!) and he becomes Human? WTF?<p> Good parts summarised: Bernard Cribbins performance. The Osterhagen Key turning out to be something more than a rubbish reset button. Davros's confontation. Daleks talking in German. The mexican standoff with everyone ready to make the ultimate sacrifice. The Threefold man idea. K-9!<p> The rubbish parts: The Threefold man in practice. The fact that The Doctor hated his human self for killing all the Daleks and conveniently ignored the fact that Rose already did the same thing in the first series. Towing the Earth and everyone on it wobbling about a bit. Davros breaking the mexican standoff by just teleporting everyone (including Martha in an underground base) to the ship. The last second escape of the Tardis.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:13 p.m. CST

    The Moon

    by Lloytron

    I just remembered, the moon was still in orbit... wouldn't that have spun off somewhere?<p>Oh and what is it with the transdimensional teleporter that you activate just by pressing a button, and it either takes you across the unverse, or just through the door on the right if you are in mortal peril. Needs 30 mins to recharge too. Nifty! No nasty rifts in time and space either.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Like it Lots (SPOILERS)

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Would have been a bit better without Rose but then I've always had a bit of a downer on the lovey dovey side of this Who. <br> <br> Thought the Donna thing was tragic and worse than her dying and Bernard Cribbens and Catherine Tate were brilliant. As long as they leave this alone and don't go back later to fix it ( a la Bad Wolf Bay 2) then it will make this seasons story arc one of the best to date.<br> <br> Some other goodies:<br> <br> German Daleks <br> <br> A timelord with a brutal human streak<br> <br> Doctor and Donna sharing characteristics<br> <br> Reference to Gwens previosu appearance on Who<br> <br> A competely losing it Davros <br> <br> Dalek Caan - who saw that coming!

  • July 5, 2008, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Osterhagan anagram

    by Celtican

    only works when you spell it correctly!

  • July 5, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST

    still going with the donna as river song theory.

    by notspock2

    now she has lost the timelord brain.. she could theoretically be the one of twins to get the regeneration.... remember the doctor thought his daughter couldn't regenerate.. and we all know how that ended up....

  • July 5, 2008, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Just tell me this at any point in this episode dos the Doctor ye

    by CrichtonAstronut


  • July 5, 2008, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Yeah, but then why did River have to hear Donna's

    by CrichtonAstronut

    name before she recognized her.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Donna is NOT River Song

    by Lloytron

    She knew her because as the Doctor said at the end, her name would live on in legend. Thats all there is to it.<p> Unless anyone is really suggesting that Donna somehow transforms into Alex Kingston, has her memory of her life as Donna completely erased, learns about the legend of Donna without her brain exploding, gets taken into the future once more, meets a future incarnation of The Doctor and marries him, without him realising who she is.<p> I know RTD stretches things, but come on - its more likely to be Wilfred than Donna.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST

    River Song plothole answered?

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    River Song said that she knew the Doctor, the David Tennant version of him, but that he was older when they met. And lots of people complained that this is a gaping plothole if the Doctor were to regenerate anytime in the next few years (which he will).<p>Ah but now it can be explained. River could now meet the Doctor who is living with Rose, and who is going to age at normal human speed.<P>If RTD was making this shit up as he goes along then he's being lucky with it.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:45 p.m. CST

    new companion

    by mikeyone

    i really hope that it ends up being sarah janes son.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:48 p.m. CST

    The Handsome 12th Doctor

    by Lloytron

    When she said he was older, I assumed she meant an older regeneration that looks like a different person, not just an older version of Tennent. A future incarnation more like Pertwee of Hartnell perhaps.<p>As she knew who he was it was probably easier to say she met an older version rather than an older version with a completely different face/voice/height/persona/dress sense!

  • July 5, 2008, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Last of the time lords

    by Lloytron

    I just realised that we now know there are two doctors, one timelord and one part-time lord (loved that pun BTW, very fitting for Donna being a temp).<p>Even though it is a stretch, this could mean there are other time lord hybrids out there somewhere that could pop out of the woodwork at any moment.

  • July 5, 2008, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Time Beetle

    by shockingmood

    Reaper 28. She said there "was" something on your back.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:05 p.m. CST


    by Lloytron

    Indeed she did - but it was a bit superflous if nothing was to be read from it. She didn't say "There was something on your back - and also you were in a computer generated alternate world and have met babies made of fat and were in an erupting volcano and are about to become part time lord..." etc etc

  • July 5, 2008, 4:11 p.m. CST

    that's 'gramma' spelt grammar

    by dj_bollocks

    unless you were talking about your grand mother of course....

  • July 5, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    the cybermen at Christmas...

    by Deak the Geek

    are they the alternate universe version or from our universe? if they are from our universe they should look different being from mondas or telos.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Celtican: re spelling

    by danowen

    The pitfalls of getting AICN review done on time :) "Osterhagen", there.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:21 p.m. CST


    by apocalypseguy

    MASSIVE being the operative word in that sentence. I enjoy the show but I don't think it's the dogs bollocks...

  • July 5, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

    i dont think...

    by Thunder Child

    ...that Russell T Davies intended to write complex linking in his stories. As much as fans love to speculate, a majority of the time his big reveals tend to be for the visual rather than extending the canon. BEST BITS: Catherine Tate was a revalation as an actress, expect awards next year. Davros,of course. German Daleks. Special FX. BAD BITS: Towing the Earth, doh! Martha and Mickey in Torchwood, expect yet more bad acting.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:42 p.m. CST

    So the new Doctor will be either.....

    by Gabba-UK

    David Morrisey or Dervla Kirwan judging by the teaser for the Christmas Special (remember Tennant made his full debut in the first Christmas Special. Frankly the non-regen was a total and to be expected typical RTD cop out. Overall the episode was good but the fact that nearly all that was in it was pretty much predicted by quite a lot of talkbackers in last weeks TB showed that either A: Some in here need to consider become Who script writers or B: RTD has only as much an imagination as your average talkbacker.......... which is bloody sobering thought really. My only real problem with the finale was when Donna-Doctor started doing her techno-babble 'Look at me I'm just as clever as you two bit' All it did was dissolve the small amount of respect she earned from me for how she had made the character grow as a person (I promise there was some respect being to form) and simply remind me of all the reasons I find Catherine Tate so irritating. So no, I'm not eating my words, or taking a portion of humble pie...... I'm fucking glad to be seeing the back of her!!! The only problem with her going is that it means we won't be seeing anymore of the wonderful Bernard Cribbins as her Gramps. If Moffett can find a why to get him back in the show without Donna being involved that would be great. But the episodes real strength was just in reminding us how great David Tennent is in the role. Seriously, the BBC need to give that man whatever he wants to stay put. In fact the BBC need to give thought to the idea of doing a proper 'small budget' cinema released movie with Tennent in the role. They'd make a mint!! Those are thoughts, like them or not, but to finish off....its going to be long wait till Christmas I can tell you.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:51 p.m. CST

    This Christmas - The Return.... Of The Cybermen

    by Lloytron

    I would have gotten excited about this if I didn't already know they were created by Trigger off of Only Fools and Horses.<p>"ROD..NEY..YOU..PLON...KER.."

  • July 5, 2008, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Cribbens heads the ball.

    by proper

    That was alright,I've enjoyed Dr Who this year,I never catch repeats or buy DVDs so I don't take it as personally as some of you but for me it was on the whole good,I always try to remember that it's as much for the kids as anybody else so I don't expect the Wire every week,although there should be a no nookie before 9 rule if nothing than to keep the peace between us all (hold fire Spud,king of the time asassins :>).Right,for xmas and the specials next year I want a clean slate with no links to the last 4 series,main event monsters and no candy arse Titanic in space type BJ pavement type silliness.I could do with a bit of a break from it all myself,so I think the reduced schedule next year is a good thing.What was the link with Gwen?,was that from the pyschic Welsh girl ep way back?.DT=Ching ching,good for him,job 4 life.....nice1 Herc.

  • July 5, 2008, 4:54 p.m. CST


    by Ray Gamma

    Thinking back on this episode, I'm left with the same sort of feelings that I had immediately after watching ¨Revenge of the Sith¨. And by that I mean, so many unfulfilled set-ups, so many wasted opportunities, so many long-term characters finding their storylines ending up in a flippant manner, only to leave the audience feeling a little bit depressed that the plot revelations in the final episode couldn't have been strokes of genius slamming you about the head. Instead, the plot 'revelations' turn out to be nothing more than convenient pseudo-science babble that leaves no room at all for the ¨aha!!¨ audience reaction. Instead, the audience's reaction is something more like ¨eh? right, ok, whatever¨. I'm talking about the kind of plot devices that just conveniently tie up messy threads without any shred of cleverness that the audience can be ¨involved¨ in. Instead, tonight's ¨clever¨ plot solutions have all been a bit like the 3000th time that Geordi La Forge uttered the lines ¨we'll just re-route the main deflector array...¨. </P> <P>I'm sorry RTD, but after such a promising penultimate episode last week, it was very disappointing to have to completely ¨go¨ with plot devices like the donna/doctor/hand/regeneration blah fiasco, with a complete absence of any clever plot machinery at all, just babble. And as for the ¨Tardis towing the Earth back home¨, well, if the Universe was one gigantic cosmic shark...... you just jumped it.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:01 p.m. CST

    about donna..

    by emeraldboy

    I have a funny feeling, that is the last we will be seeing of her. The dr warned gramps and her mum, if you tell her about me, she will burn up. It makes me mad that RTD went through all those companions. and now they are going to have start looking for a new one. Billie is in the christmas ep. I think. It is now going to be the singular adventures of Dr who. which is not really very interesting. they wll have to kill tennant off he becomes to deamanding. That will make the search for the replacement very messy. at least with the Eccelstone episode, RTD knew who he wanted to replace Ecclestone. will the beeb foist its own dr on moffat. or does moffat have an actor in mind. after all he is the boss.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:03 p.m. CST

    What an amazing cliffhanger ...

    by davidaball

    over in 5 seconds flat. <p> Most of the buzz last week and again this week was about the Doctor regenerating and how long does it take to solve it???? He could havea at least given it a few more seconds.<p> Which is a shame because there were quite a few great moments in that episode much better plotted than every other RTD series finale. Why he has to leave just as he discovers how to write is beyond me.<p> And as for that ending 2 series ago we were told that Rose was trapped in an alternate universe never to return so Donna's mind wipe never seems to permanent. "Donna must never learn anything about me." But her walking into a room where I am is FINE!!!! <b> Must agree Bernard Cribbins for the next companion </b> <p> Oh and What's with the guy who said I don't want my name recorded for this? You're blowing up the entire planet who is going to be there to remember??????<p>

  • July 5, 2008, 5:04 p.m. CST

    New Moffat series

    by Lloytron

    He should take the Doctor Who in a whole new direction - have a Doctor Who/Coupling cross over series.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:13 p.m. CST

    it felt like...

    by Ray Gamma

    it felt like last week's episode was written carefully over a period of weeks, linking in various characters and plot elements from the last three series', but then this final episode feels like it was written in a hurry in one evening, under duress, like RTD was suddenly given an early deadline or something. But that wouldn't have even happened, he had all the time in the world to think about how to wrap this story up, he could have foreshadowed it for ages and then hit us with some amazing pay-offs, but it was just totally unsatisfying after all the build-up. The regeneration thing was just plot-messy. And the way Rose was despatched was quite hollow and depressing after making us wait for the past year or two for this reunion. As for Donna, once again, Tate has proved the haters wrong, with her great performance, but the way her character ends up (memory-wipe etc) is just totally disappointing. It seemed last week that they were setting her character up to be some sort of self-sacrificial saviour of the Universe, which would have been a fantastic way to transform Donna's previously banal persona. Quite a wasted opportunity I have to say.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Moffat did Coupling

    by MrJJonz

    That show amused the bejesus out of me

  • July 5, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST


    by Alientoast

    Show me your papers...Ach! Mein Gott! Ze Doctor is a British spy! EXTERMINATEN!!!

  • July 5, 2008, 5:20 p.m. CST


    by Lloydywho

    Well I am nor too sure. I think that once I re watch it I will love it. Davros was great though.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:22 p.m. CST

    It was perfect aside from one thing

    by photoboy

    I loved the entire thing, it was an exciting ride that didn't let up for one second. My only complaint would be Rose. Why did they even bother bringing her back? She brought sod all emotion or interest to the episodes she appeared in and made no impact to the story whatsoever. It seems she was brought back purely so RTD could re-write the season 2 finale into something "happier". Personally I'd be happy with a phantom edit of this episode that cuts as much of her out as possible. Catherine Tate was utterly fantastic, it's such a shame she's (presumably) gone for good.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Davros was great

    by Ray Gamma

    agreed! In fact, all the performances were really great. he bit where Davros holds the top of his head for a second, hesitating, then shrieks like a a madman, that was fucking excellent.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Will the 'Breast Octopus' now appear

    by MrJJonz

    in Dr Who with Moffat at the helm?

  • July 5, 2008, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Moffat - bring back the Zygons!!

    by Deak the Geek

    those shape shifting monster controlling oil rig destroying bad-asses!!

  • July 5, 2008, 5:47 p.m. CST

    gods bless Bernard Cribbins...

    by RaveX

    "but every night, doctor... <p> when it gets dark. <p> and the stars come out. <p> I'll look up. <p> on your behalf. <p> I'll look up at the sky. <p> and think of you." <p> and also, I'm SO glad it ended the way it did: doctor, alone in tardis. no "what, what, WHAT?!?", no titanic bursting trough. <p> just the doctor, alone with his sadness.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:50 p.m. CST

    River Song

    by supertoyslast

    River never said that she had met Tennant's version of the Doctor before. She just knew that he has the ability to regenerate and therefore change his appearance. She knew he must be the Doctor because she sent a message to the Doctor via the psychic paper to meet her at The Library - a deserted world - and he was the only one there (with Donna). She even says, more than once, that he is not *her* Doctor.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:57 p.m. CST

    RE: River Song

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Wasn't there a part where she expected him to know who she was? And was disappointedly shocked that he didn't? That to me says that she knew the Tennant Doc.

  • July 5, 2008, 5:58 p.m. CST


    by Celtican

    sorry didn't mean to come across picky ;-)

  • July 5, 2008, 6 p.m. CST

    Can't read any comments...

    by MisterE

    I haven't seen the new episode yet, so I can't read any of the comments. I just now finished re-watching last week's episode and I'm so excited! <p> I mentioned in the last Doctor Who talkback that I became a Doctor Who fan with the relaunch in 2005, and had only previously watched a few Tom Baker and Peter Davison episodes. Thanks to suggestions by lynxpro, INWOsuxRED, and Ray Gamma (and maybe others), I've started watching the Tom Baker Doctor Who episodes. <p> I started with "Genesis of the Daleks", "The Talons of Weng-Chiang", and "The Pirate Planet". These were all great (I really liked "Talons"), but I was exposed to three different companions (one being Sarah Jane) and "The Pirate Planet" is apparently part of a larger "Key to Time" arc, so I've gone back and started with the first Tom Baker episode. I've now watched "Robot", "The Ark in Space", "The Sontaran Experiment", "Genesis of the Daleks", "Revenge of the Cybermen", and "Terror of the Zygons" (plus "Talons" and "The Pirate Planet"). I'm liking it a lot! There is an incredible amount of imagination put into these stories, and a lot of cool concepts are referenced and explored. I'm no longer even bothered by the special effects, so I guess that I've eaten the Jelly Baby. <p> I would go on, but I have about ten minutes until I can watch the new series finale! I must prepare...

  • July 5, 2008, 6:03 p.m. CST

    there was lots of bad but lots of good

    by Cedar_Room

    first of all - I was so excited before this ep started I'll admit I was like a kid again. But then, the whole thing being over in the first 5 seconds, it really deflated everything. All the excitement, all the great build up of menace was just totally lost and I felt cheated and drawn out of the story for the next 20 minutes or so. In truth it was revealed to be a cheap trick by RTD to make out that he had kept an amazing secret from the British public, when in fact it was just a massive tease to get viewing figures up. <p> Having said that, I started to get into the ep again after Davros had his first mentalist speech. When he starting shouting I honestly got chills. For me he was just consistently excellent and easily the best villian in new Who. I hope the way it ended, with the Doctor being cursed and us not actually seeing him die, leaves it open for his return. But what grander scheme could he come up with than trying to erase reality itself?? Once again though, loved loved loved Davros (also loved the Palpatineisms as someone else mentioned). <p> Things did then get better after the terrible start - loved the German daleks, the Osterhagen key reveal was nowhere near as lame as I feared. The resolution of Donna's storyline I actually liked. The idea was fulfilled that she becomes the most important woman in the universe, forever remembered whilst she herself will always be damned to forget. Nice idea I liked this. And from an avowed Tater I gotta give props to Catherine here because she has proven to be brilliant. That part where she was pleading with the Doc not to be sent back to her pathetic existance, with no memory of the great things she's done and no hope for the future, that was great. She has really raised the bar for future companions to follow. Loved Bernard Cribbins too and the downbeat ending, with the Doctor left on his own once more - perhaps we will see a solo Doctor for these specials? <p> Not excited particularly to see the return of the Cybermen, but I do hope that we don't see Rose back - leave her alone now along with everyone else from the last 4 series and lets have some NEW characters both good and evil. SO ultimately, I liked this more than last year, and this and other RTD eps certainly have shown signs of improvement - but what this ep really showed is that actually bringing in the Moff is exactly what the show needs. An intelligent writer who will draw together and nicely wrap up plotlines in new and exciting ways. Furthermore - really glad that Tennant is staying as he is awesome! Also, Moff please note - the Doc's daughter and Sally Sparrow are both good characters and also very fit. If you were to bring them back I wouldn't object.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:13 p.m. CST

    A small apology

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I've just read my review back and I want to say sorry for using the phrase "made me feel like a kid again". That's a terrible cliche almost on par with saying "Meh!"

  • July 5, 2008, 6:14 p.m. CST

    you are all plums

    by maximumbob

    I would have thought that at least one of you would have guessed the identity of the actor to next play the doctor. It's so obvious when you think about it. Stephen Fry.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:16 p.m. CST


    by Randall_Flagg

    I don't very often get moved to write about tv shows but..... there is the odd exception. After watching last weeks episode, which left me feeling like I was seven years old again, I have been discussing possibilities with my kids and anyone else who would listen. I hurriedly bathed my daughter this evening before hurrying downstairs for the 6.40 start time only to be confronted by televisual equivalent of one of said daughters soiled nappies. I can't believe just how bad this episode was. From the regeneration that wasn't, the underuse of K9 and almost every single other character to killing Davros off with half hour or so to go (which was just plain criminal). From an episode that promised so much, it failed to deliver big time and what do we have to look forward to at christmas? Fucking Cybermen. Again. Thanks for bringing Who back RTD but you really should've left the writing to others...

  • July 5, 2008, 6:19 p.m. CST

    RE: River Song

    by supertoyslast

    She expected Tennant's Doctor to know who she was because she believed him to be a version of the Doctor *after* any Doctors she had met before. She will have assumed that if she met, say, Doctor 11 then he would be Doctor 12 or 13. She would not expect him to be Doctor 10. The way she flicked through her "spoilers" diary asking "have we done this yet?" suggested to me that she has met several Doctors (post-Tennant) but, since he is a time traveller, the chronology is mucked up.<P>What surprised me most in that episode was how long the Doctor spent asking her "who are you?" He should have easily figured out that this was someone who had met future versions of himself, but he hadn't met her yet. As a time traveller, this should happen to him all the time.<P>Anyway, River refers to never having seen him so young. I got the impression she was talking centuries. Tennant will almost definitely leave within the next few years. If he does meet River Song in that time, that comment will make no sense whatsoever. "I've never seen you look 3 years younger than previously" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Even if some people get the impression that River Song has met Tennant's Doctor before, nowhere in the episode is it explicitly stated that she has. She never says, for example, "I recognise your face because we have met before and you are the Doctor".

  • July 5, 2008, 6:27 p.m. CST

    When will this be up?

    by Ckuouka

    i keep checking and various sites but nothing, yet. i want to see this damn thing tonight.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:35 p.m. CST


    by RaveX

    it has been up since, like, 3 minutes after it aired. <p> <p>

  • July 5, 2008, 6:37 p.m. CST

    by Randall_Flagg

  • July 5, 2008, 6:39 p.m. CST


    by Randall_Flagg

    You really aren't missing much. Please don't waste 65 minutes of your life

  • July 5, 2008, 6:40 p.m. CST

    What happened to Rhinoman Police Squad ??

    by G100

    THAT plotline involving the shadow proclamation was dropped like a hot turd, was it not ?<p> <p>Yeah New WHO is REALLY beginning to wear out the old villains with a christmas cybermen Ep.<p>RTD simply can't do climaxes. He can set things up and he knows what will be a cliffhanger, but when it comes to actually delivering on all the setup and creating believable and lasting resolutions, he doesn't have a clue.<p> <p>He doesn't even pretend to care about the mechanics of an Episode as long as he can get characer A to point X along with character B he would be just as happy to use a magic wand and the laughable technobabble is basically that. A Doctor Who magic wand RTD waves to create various ludicrous setpieces, instantaneous villain defeats and over the top happy endings.<p> <p>Davros saved this Ep from being quite as hilariously sh*t as the Master Eps but it came perilously close on occasion unfortunately.<p> <p>Ah well... RTD had his run, had his fun and but it's DEFINITELY time for something new.<p> <p>Moffat, I'm fairly sure, will at least try to create memorable new villains not just trade on the old ones AND he might even bring Sally Sparrow back as a companion. Well, we can but hope.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST

    The Rhinoman Police Squad...

    by Kelvington

    they are looking for the wooden security camera in the libary that just disappeared for no reason and was never seen or spoken of again. Just like the Rhinomen.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST

    The funniest moment in the ep.

    by SID 8.0

    The Doctor assigning spots for everyone at the controls of the Tardis. Then he gets to Jackie."No Jackie, no just back away."

  • July 5, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST

    The Rhinoman Police

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    My impression is that they, and the Shadow Proclamation, will be responsible for towing the other 26 stolen planets back to where they're supposed to be.

  • July 5, 2008, 6:54 p.m. CST

    The funniest moment

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I did laugh at the bit where he told Jackie "No". But I laughed louder at the bit when the Tardis re-appeared after Davros et all thought it had been destroyed, and you can hear Dalek Caan in the background giggling like the loon it is.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Well, The Handsome 12th Doctor, Randall_Flagg and others..

    by axcel1

    I guess I'm the only one looking forward to seeing the 2008 xmas special, sorry, but, the Cybermen are my favorite DW bad guys.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:15 p.m. CST


    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Where'd you get the impression that I'm not looking forward to the Xmas special?<p>I am.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Well that was disappointing

    by Harrow

    A lot of it was unintentionally funny - towing the Tardis back to earth, the new Torchwood lineup plugging. The two standouts that saved me from labelling the episode crap - Catherine Tate and Deutsche Daleks!

  • July 5, 2008, 7:38 p.m. CST

    The biggest ever backslapping session

    by Reelheed

    I just wish everyone would stop fucking hugging and saying how great they are. You're great. You're wonderful. Sometimes its like watching an hour of RTD wanking himself off. I have to stop watching this show. I soOo want it to be good. Every season, 1 or 2 gems have risen to the top of the pile but the rest are just naff. An every scene with Tate is like having wisdom teeth removed. I think if you're a massive fan then this was a good episode just for the thrill of seeing all your favourite characters lumped together with darleks on the side. However I found it kinda dull. Even the davros rant about how the Docs turned all his sidekicks into warriors rings hollow because none of them were until this storyline began. Having said that I always remember "Ace" being quite feisty. And hot. I was a fool to think she'd go for a 10yr old... ahh sophie where are you now. and do you still have that wonderful Croydon Facelift?

  • July 5, 2008, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Donna doing the Doctor/Doctor doing Donna

    by EvilWizardGlick

    No one mentioned how cool it was when the Doctor imitated Donna then Donna imitated the Doctor. Damn funny. <p> It reminded me of the Lesley Sharp Tennant exchange.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:48 p.m. CST

    Donna doing the Doctor/Doctor doing Donna

    by davidaball

    Wasn't that just annoying

  • July 5, 2008, 7:50 p.m. CST

    Pertwee and Tennant vie for best Doctor.

    by EvilWizardGlick

    Until tonight it seemed as if only Pertwee fully understood the Doctor. God he was the James Bond of Doctors, what the classic auto, the hovercar, the spray in the face boat ride, the Martial Arts. Pertwee rulled. <p> Hartnell had the most interesting episodes, the fucking Mothmen were so surreal. And even the cheesy ones were engrossing and scary. <p> The Tennant Doctor is now up there with Pertwee as a "realized" Doctor, and Hartnell for involving interesting stories. <p> Fuck all you haters. This is the most fun with tv I've had in years.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:51 p.m. CST

    davidaball, NO! It was a HOOT!

    by EvilWizardGlick

    It was slicker than snot on a doorknob.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:51 p.m. CST

    other points...

    by lynxpro

    RTD got to make fun of the idea of The Doctor being half-human without retconning it out or contradicting it. There's also the overlooked point that "something" is manipulating the time events which Dalek Caan gladly participated in. I think that was a big hint that the Time Lords are back but hiding.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Donna's entire character arc RUINED

    by The Gospel According to Bastardface

    She should have died, being a hero. It was a cruel and stupid move. Still, Catherine Tate kicked ass.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:53 p.m. CST

    Re: Donna doing the Doctor, and vice versa

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I did pick that out as one of my favourite things in the ep.<P>And I am posting too much in this talkback.

  • July 5, 2008, 7:54 p.m. CST


    by lynxpro

    ...there's a Key to Time box set that I'm sure Netflix has the discs for in totality. There's some good stuff in that series...the whole "Dawn as a living key" from Buffy originates from that. Glad you are enjoying ClassicWho.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:05 p.m. CST

    Re: Donna doing the Doctor, and vice versa

    by F69

  • July 5, 2008, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Re: Donna doing the Doctor, and vice versa

    by F69

    Um yeah, it was pretty damn annoying. It made me physically cringe. Seriously, I found it painfull. Only good thing about this Ep was the Nazi Daleks.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:19 p.m. CST

    new Davros.....

    by emeraldboy

    one part palpatine, one part lecter.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:30 p.m. CST

    meh. I expected better...

    by Bill Clay

    The Internet rumors were more exciting than this tepid finale. Just like The Master's finale in season 3, we get a fantastic Part 1 and a flaccid conclusion.<br> That will be RTD's legacy. He sets them up great but can't follow through on the ending. Brown Doctor/Blue Doctor? WTF?!

  • July 5, 2008, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Bloody Catherine Tate...

    by Obscura

    ...managed to do the impossible and take a character that could easily fit into her (awful) sketch show, and turn her into -honestly- my favourite companion of the whole lot. i never ever though id be saying that. not only that but she ended up being the best part of the finale, thanks to Billie Piper getting surgery to make her look like a BeeGee and feeling like a totally different person.

  • July 5, 2008, 8:54 p.m. CST

    so how come...

    by mr. flibble

    a half human half timelord i.e Donna can't handle the knowledge of a TL, but a half human half TL i.e Doc2, can..... I give RTD a lot of credit for some of the stuff he's done but damn he has some piss poor holes in his scripts at times all for the sake of a idea or image he has to see on screen. The process needs more work. Overall it had its moments, Davros was excellent, the emotional arc for the Doctor and Donna esp awesome (although better if they'd had the balls to kill her). The effects and epicness was superb, considering the limited budgets they have compared to most US scifi shows we really are spoilt, it just had the occasional RTD moments of pandering to a silly idea/character (Capt Jack)/setpiece that undermined it a bit. I agree with Clay though, we did build it up too much and were probably collectively more imaginative and more daring that RTD was or could ever be lol. In the end though, that was a lot o fuckin fun there, enjoyed it. But please...the cybermen...AGAIN! Have they not realised they'll get a big audience even if they don't reuse a classic villain? I'd be very happy also to have a special that doesn't necessarily have the entire Earth at stake, something more intimate and personal would be better, esp with the Doc being at a low point at the end of this ep...

  • July 5, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    time lords brain > human brain...

    by Obscura

    Donna was a human with extra knowledge, the human doctor was knowledge with an extra body.... thats the best way i can figure it.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Doctor Dan - Just post the script.

    by ZeroCorpse

    Seriously. You might as well just post the fucking script next time. It'd save you some typing, mate.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Donna did "die"

    by Alientoast

    Basically the better person she became died...and the Doctor killed her. The worst part is that she will revert to her old self-loathing self and will probably never be happy and forever be stuck in her small gossipy world. That's a pretty harsh fate for her all things considered.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:13 p.m. CST


    by Dradis Contact

    so is dr jones going to be on torchwood now? because she's hot

  • July 5, 2008, 9:13 p.m. CST

    The McGann regeneration WAS "half-human".

    by ZeroCorpse

    Timelords can change general species traits in a regeneration. This has been established before the TV Movie (Romana was even able to 'try on' regenerations before settling on one). They can alter their outward species, their gender, their apparent age, and pretty much anything physical. So the "half" human is the Doctor's choosing to regenerate in an extremely human form, thus having eyes more human-like than those of a strict Gallifreyan body. <p> So anyway, the obvious question is: Who is the next companion?

  • July 5, 2008, 9:21 p.m. CST

    The Tragic Companion....

    by ChildOfMen

    Interesting to see another companion get the Zoe Herriot treatment, and made to essentially forget all of the things they did and the way they grew as a person during their adventures with the Doctor. It seems like one of the cruelest fates for a companion, but I'm not sure if it is worse than the other option, where you retain all your knowledge of your adventures but then have to go back to a mundane life.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:24 p.m. CST

    What a muddled mess

    by Dreamfasting

    Wow, nothing worked for me in that episode. After the rocket pacing of the build up, everything seemed to hit a brick wall and stop. Lots of plot threads went nowhere and the entire story had a "what was the point of that?!" feel. A good Davros interpretation was wasted in this pile of garbage non-plot. It was nice seeing everyone, there were some interesting ideas, but in the end, it came off as a cheesy reunion clip show rather than an epic story. I had been ready to acclaim this the best year yet - good stories, great acting, nice tempo to the arc, fantastic production values all around ... but that finale may set it back a few notches. <BR> In Doctor Who, mythos is everything ... to me the iconic moment of the season was the snap of his fingers. That simple act was a scene worthy of a finale, a scene that felt earned and grand. This show catapulted the earth around the cosmos, blew up half the Tardis, left regeneration-counters going "WTF?!" and in the end didn't feel like any of it mattered a wit.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:25 p.m. CST


    by EyeofPolyphemus

    It left me cold. The Doctor dumps Rose with one of his discards. that was the biggest let down about his companions' story arcs, but not the only one. Donna deserved a better fate and Jack has proven he can be trusted to teleport through time. why did Mickey not seem to care more for rose than Jackie? He did not even tell her goodbye while making it a point to tell Jackie he was going to miss her the most. I was disappointed. Plus the Doctor is an ass. it is no wonder he always winds up alone.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Rose is gonna fuck the Doctor tonight.

    by ZeroCorpse

    Think about it. <p> And in the middle of it, maybe The Doctor will lean in close and say, "What the hell did you do to your teeth?"

  • July 5, 2008, 9:32 p.m. CST

    I can't wait

    by INWOsuxRED

    for two years to find out if Moffat can actually end a series with style. RTD fell flat again, not as bad as some, but still an illogical and rushed letdown after an incredibly promissing start. I hope they let RTD write an episode or story on the next full series, to see if his quality improves when he isn't stretched so incredibly thin. I hope Moffat doesn't buckle under the weight of it all, but it I wouldn't be suprised if he has already written most of his series by now.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:35 p.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    Rose was an absolute cunt to Mickey. She didn't even care that she left him in a position where everyone assumed he was the town murderer when she vanished. Then he finds his own universe with loved ones where he comes into his own, and Rose shows up and ruins it for him. If I was Mickey, I wouldn't have said goodbye either, but I might have told her to fuck off before I left.

  • July 5, 2008, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Moffat and expectations

    by Dreamfasting

    I should be leaping up and down with excitement over Moffat running the 2010 season ... but I can't help but fear we put him on too high a pedestal.<BR><BR> (Oh, but as an aside, credit where credit is due for RTD and company resurrecting the show and giving it a revived mythology and accessibility across generations - I may not always be a fan of his style, but at least he's made me care about this wandering old show again :) )

  • July 5, 2008, 9:54 p.m. CST

    the music during the "towing" sequence

    by scourge0

    somebody asked what the music was during the "earth towing" sequence. that music was a more orchestrated "song of the ood." go back and watch the end of that ep, and you'll see it's the same tune. pretty fitting, too, as it's that episode (when the song was playing), that one of the ood said, "your song will end soon, Doctor Donna." i guess i'm easily pleased, but it's those connections that make me excited about this show.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:06 p.m. CST


    by medicinaluser

    Though being a Gybo he would prolly enjoy it the lousy cunt..WTF WAS THAT ANYWAY

  • July 5, 2008, 10:08 p.m. CST

    That was fun! (maybe with SPOILERS)

    by MisterE

    This was a great finale for what has turned out to be a very enjoyable Fourth series. Like so many others I was dreading the return of Donna Noble, but Catherine Tate surprised me and made the character very entertaining. I'll miss her. <p> Speaking of Donna Noble, I WON'T be surprised if her big honkin' ring turns out to be something akin to the Doctor's and the Master's fob watches. By this I mean a sort of vessel that is storing Donna's memories, and not so much a way for her to return to Human / Time Lord hybrid status. It may simply be because the thing is so damb big, but it seems that the ring was too prominent in too many scenes (and was also on the hand that Donna shoved into the Regeneration energy). Also, don't forget that her stuttering husband from the Library is still out there, somewhere...

  • July 5, 2008, 10:14 p.m. CST

    There was never another human/Time Lord

    by INWOsuxRED

    Except for the other Doctor, that the real Doctor stuck with Rose. Why wouldn't that Doctor start to melt down the same way Donna did?

  • July 5, 2008, 10:16 p.m. CST


    by Shan

    Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic! Fantastic!

  • July 5, 2008, 10:33 p.m. CST

    One thing I can't understand...

    by KnightShift

    Davros screams out "I name you, forever, YOU are the DESTROYER of WORLDS!!!"<p> Yeah well, what about what DAVROS just tried to do? He nearly wiped out all of creation... and a few million Daleks killed by Doctor 2.0 is supposed to be *worse* than that?<p> Minor quibbles aside, I liked this episode a lot. It was the perfect ending for Davies's tenure as the show's helmsman. Davros's monologue where he talks about how the Doctor can't look back, and then the scene where the TARDIS is pulling the Earth back home... just plum epic stuff.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Not very good at all.

    by DoctorWhat

    Russell T. Davies still hasn't figured out how to properly wrap up a cliffhanger. Nearly every resolution in this season ender was either painfully predictable or ridiculously nonsensical. I enjoyed the first half of this two-parter, but this was a major let-down. Steven Moffatt can't arrive soon enough.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:35 p.m. CST


    by Shan

    First I posted, then I read backwards through the posts. *What* *does* *everyone* *want*? You can see that RTD planned this from a long time ago, with all sorts of plot elements from years back tying up together in this final episode. Sure, not everything worked but I had fun. Didn't anyone else?

  • July 5, 2008, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Just for those who don't understand...

    by vadakinX

    The death that was predicted by Kaan wasn't the "death" of Donna's memories. The death he was talking about was the death of the doctor in Rose's universe, who will grow old and die. <p> And correct me if I'm wrong, but at a point in this episode, weren't there 4 versions of the Doctor in the universe at the same time? <p> Complete Doctor, Half Doctor, Donna Doctor and Jenny Doctor, who is essentially a female clone of the Doctor. <p> Regarding the episode overall, it was ok, I'm a little disappointed in Davros...I mean he didn't really do much. Yes his speeches were great and the Daleks keeping him as a pet does fit with Davros' history. But I would have liked to have seem him in full command, rather than being inferior in rank to Supreme Dalek.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:44 p.m. CST

    Bye bye RTD ... I'm not going to miss you

    by thecocktailarch

    Over the past 4 series (or seasons, if you're in the US) of Doctor Who it seems to be the case that the finales rarely reach the heights of mid-series episodes (the only one that came close being the finale of series 3). As ever, this series' finale was big. Actually no. It was BIG. Lots to do; lots of characters; lots of daleks. In my (humble) opinion, there was too much. First things first; please don't bring back one of the most famous villains in UK TV history and only grant him around 15 minutes of screen time and then refer to him as a slave (this would be akin to making a Star Wars series and having Darth Vader make a cameo appearance as a soldier). Davros wasn't just underused; he was barely there at all. Secondly, no more than 5 or 6 characters per episode please. This finale brought us The Doctor, Donna, Martha, Rose, Jackie, Mickey, Captain Jack, Gwen, Ianto, Sarah Jane, K-9, Davros, Donna's mother and grandfather, another Doctor and Harriet Jones - most of them did almost nothing and weren't even 'making up the numbers'. Lastly: I know Dr. Who plotlines are far-fetched - I'm no Sci-Fi junkie but I adore fantasy and love to see weird and wonderful things happening. However, what the hell was going on this time? Loved the idea of the earth being a second out of sync with the rest of time; however, everything just started to feel a little ad hoc (classic RTD). I don't like to post on these boards as I feel that all we're really doing is offering an opinion and nothing more - something subjective. However, this time I just couldn't bear the sheer weight of people who seemed to think that this episode was good. It was BIG, but it wasn't half as good as the first Dalek episode (with the single Dalek), the double episode based during WWII, the double episode with the Ood and the Beast, the episode with the Ood from this series and the (truly and undeniably brilliant) episode with the statues that send people back in time if they're not looked at. Oh, and hip hip hooray. Cybermen are back. Exactly what we've all been waiting for.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Entertaining but don't think about it too much

    by jccalhoun

    It was a good ride but if you think about it then it all falls apart. What was going on with the other planets? Were they all uninhabited? Were any inhabitants just hanging out? Why did anyone besides Donna need to be in it? <br><br>However, I love Sarah Jane and Jack is always better as a supporting character than a leading one. <br><br>The Donna ending was pretty good. it actually made DOnna a likable character. <br><br>I really wonder what Moffat is going to bring to the table. RTD has had a lot of problems but he brought emotion to it and an over arching theme. I hope Moffat can keep that and add some great drama and scifi which RTD wasn't that great with.<br><br>Regarding who I would like to be the Doctor next, being born and raised in the USA I don't know all that many UK actors by name that are in the right league to do Who. However, I would like to see them pick someone quite different. I would like an older (although not necessarily Hartnell old) guy and I think someone overweight would be really interesting. He wouldn't be able to do all that running that RTD is so fond of. A beard would be a good choice too.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:46 p.m. CST

    I had fun, in parts. But not much and not many.

    by V'Shael

    And when the episode was bad, like the towing the Earth thing, it was as bad as anything RTD has done. <p> I really think he can do character stuff, but anything related to SciFi, reason or logic, and he's like a fish out of water.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:46 p.m. CST

    A question about the Daleks though ...

    by Shan

    OK, they atomise all of creation leaving themselves being the only thing left in existence. Then what? What do they actually do next? Wouldn't it be better for them to be like the Sontarans, engaged in perpetual war instead? <p> As for the really big surprise in that episode, for me it was Dalek Caan having set up his own species for an epic fall. The Cult of Skaro were different to other Daleks and the way Dalek Sek changed yet again showed evolution into a different species from the original Daleks again but the fact that a Dalek could come to conclude that its own species in the grand scheme of things was a mistake and must be destroyed - in fact collabarating to make it happen, well that was a very big thing indeed. <p> As for whoever said the Time Lords are still around in some fashion and making things happen, I totally agree. We've repeatedly seen the occasional Dalek here and there having survived, why not a few Time Lords. If anything, knowing the Time Lords, they probably always had plans to cover the eventuality that they might be destroyed (like in the Time War) and always had some sort of escape hatch for at least some of them. <p> I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had a hand in making all of this happen, either pulling the strings of Dalek Caan or working in collaboration with him. <p> Finally, credit in keeping so much of the episode mysterious before it aired. Looking back at the various pieces of information that did get out, most of the accurate key points did get out in the end beforehand but there was sufficient doubt out there about any of it that we just weren't completely sure right up to screening time.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:52 p.m. CST

    The Time Lords can now return

    by vadakinX

    There were a few mentions of The Time War in both Stolen Earth and Journeys End. <p> Basically we learn that the Time War was time locked. And nobody could enter it without some form of protection. Makes me wonder if that's what the Doctor did, locked the war in time, or outside of time. <p> Not only that, but in the finale, we saw a time lock in Torchwood. So pretty much everything slowed to a crawl within the time locked area, including bullets. <p> Which makes me wonder, if it is, in principle, the same thing, then does that mean that the Time War is still going on? But it's locked in a "bubble" and hence moving so slowly that it will never threaten the universe outside that bubble. <p> If that is indeed the case, and Caan was able to enter the bubble, which not only made him crazy, but also let him see all of time, then could the Doctor not do the same? And if so, why doesn't he? <p> Well as I said above, if he breaks the bubble, the Time War comes back into normal Time and Space and the threat to the entire universe that the Doctor stopped, appears again. <p> So in essence, Gallifrey and Skaro aren't gone, they are simply locked outside of time, moving at a rate so slow as to not effect the universe outside the time lock. If that's the case, the Doctor could break the time lock and find a different way to end the Time War, resulting in the return of the Time Lords.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:53 p.m. CST

    The cop-out 'regeneration' lowered the bar...

    by Bill Clay

    When you start off a big finale episode with a gigantic illogical cheat like that, well, it sours the rest to come. A Time Lord's regeneration is a milestone in the series. Using it as a cheap cliff hanger just devalues the rest of the story.

  • July 5, 2008, 10:57 p.m. CST


    by notspock2

    for all you people with your "facts" and "evidence" and rational arguments about why Donna can't be river song.. I CAN'T HEAR YOU NER NER NER NER NER.... <P> as is, at least i got half right (so far), she ended up a time lord, and i suspect that she might have the ability to regenerate despite not being able to remember anything This episode was a ridiculous pantomine as has been said before, but hell for some reason, i still loved it. i cheered when k9 came back , i cheered when mickey showed up, i cheered for a lot of seemingly illogical things, but hell, it was fun.<P> Bernard Cribbins is my favourite not quite companion i think we've ever had, and i hope they find some way to get him back into the mix.<p> Also, they should ask Grant Morrison to write a script. They should have given torchwood to him, he could have made it into something rivalling the invisibles, which i always got the feeling it wanted to be...

  • July 5, 2008, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Started off fairly good, then became utter cack

    by redrain85

    I knew it. Once again, RTD's first episode promises a lot, and then the conclusion fails to deliver. Still, it wasn't as disappointing as last year's finale with the Master.<br><br> Let's see, what did I guess correctly? Tennant (not) leaving, check. Believing the rumor about two Tennant doctors, check. No earlier doctors, check. Rose spending the rest of her life with the other Doctor, happily ever after, check. Donna one of the most likely to "die", check. Captured humans not converted to Daleks, check. The way the Crucible and planets work, check.<br><br> Damn, that was too easy. And here I was hoping, that RTD would surprise me. Fat chance. Oh wait, the Daleks barking orders in German was a fun little surprise. I'll give him that.

  • July 5, 2008, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Doctor Dan, The Necklace Bomb might have been given to Sarah...

    by Yotz Von Frelnik

    ... in the first episode of the "Sarah Jane Adventures". She was visited by that alien in a scene near the beginning. That's what the alien could have given her. The young girl Maria was spying on Sarah in that scene and saw the alien give her something. Perceived Plot Hole: Sealed and secured.

  • July 6, 2008, 12:10 a.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    The Tennant Doctor is the one who got his hand chopped off. It wouldn't make sense for it to be a previous version.

  • July 6, 2008, 12:49 a.m. CST

    Knew he wasn't going to regenerate because...

    by Yotz Von Frelnik

    ... RTD didn't give him any great words to go out on. One of the great things about Christopher Eccleston's death was that he had the best death speech ever! So, we just know that when David Tennant dies he's going to have something more moving, poignant and awesome than "Grunt! I'm regenerating!" Betrayed by obvious lameness.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:14 a.m. CST

    I enjoyed it

    by Purgatori

    Rose can finally stop her whining and bitching. But my biggest thrill? Came at the end of the credits BLACKPOOL REUNION ON DOCTOR WHO! FTW!! CHRISTMAS SPECIAL!!

  • July 6, 2008, 1:16 a.m. CST

    It's still RTD and Tennant for another year...

    by Boba Fat

    It's not over yet haters.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:17 a.m. CST


    by Purgatori

    He was a Timelord with a human body. Donna was a human with a Timelord brain. Human's can't handle the massive amount of brainpower a Timelord has. The intellect and knowledge is too much. Having the body of a human isn't that big of a change.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:18 a.m. CST

    You know, you can scrutinise things too much...

    by palimpsest

    It's DOCTOR WHO, not the flipping Torah. And the ep itself? Perfectly entertaining tosh of the highest order. And RTD rather wisely wrapped everything he added into the WHO mythos up into a fairly neat bundle. And the tone at the end was absolutely spot-on. Next year, expect a darker, more serious WHO in the four specials (I'm expecting stand-alone adventures rather than a fresh story arc, but you never know)...

  • July 6, 2008, 1:39 a.m. CST

    With this 11th regeneration

    by caveman65

    Does that make Tennant the 10th and 11th doctor? Are they still limited to twelve of them?

  • July 6, 2008, 1:39 a.m. CST

    I want more than 1 companion...

    by Bill Clay

    Remember the good old days? Adric, Tegan, Turlough, Nyssa, and Kamelion all traveling together in the interdimensional hostel called the Tardis? I wonder why for the majority of the new series we have been stuck with only a single companion.<br> Sure, Adam was a fifth wheel for about 2 episodes. But the new series has limited us to a single companion for most of the episodes. I would enjoy seeing the Tardis fill up with multiple companions again!

  • July 6, 2008, 2:16 a.m. CST

    Memo to Moffat...

    by BiggusDickus

    Chap, PLEASE - no more Daleks or Cybermen for a while, eh? They've been done to fucking death. <p>Let's have Ice Warriors, Sea-Devils, another Krynoid and Zygons (well remembered Deak!). <p>River Song and Sally Sparrow for Season 5...with Bill Nighy as the main man. You know you want it!

  • July 6, 2008, 2:19 a.m. CST

    Only marginally better than last week's mess

    by Antifanboy

    Last week was a big disappointment, just a series of cameos from fan favourites, and no real plot. This week was a bit better, and hit its stride when the Doctor and Davros got together, but it still failed to reach the heights of the first and second season finales. The main problem was that it introduced all these characters in the first episode, and then had to do something with them. Except none of them actually did do anything. It seems the only contribution Sarah Jane Smith made to the entire story was... opening a door for Mickey. Much as I liked to see all those characters again, they deserved a better story. This story would have worked just as well had it just been the Doctor, Donna and Rose. Hell, maybe even the wonderful Bernard Cribbins too! As it was, there was no real pay-off for the Doctor and Rose storyline. They hardly speak to each other until the last few minutes, and then that's quickly handled to get back to Donna. And I was supremely disappointed that this unstoppable Dalek force, at their most powerful since the old days, could be stopped by... pulling a couple of levers. Cheap. Really cheap. All those millions of Daleks on the Crucible, and how many show up in the dungeon to stop the Doctor? Three. I can't wait to see what Moffatt does with the Daleks, and I suspect it'll be a lot more ingenious and cruel than "muahaha, we're going to invade Earth - AGAIN!"

  • July 6, 2008, 2:37 a.m. CST

    so basically

    by punto

    everything is fixed by Donna and the human doctor typing into some magical machine that can stop all daleks and kill them? classic RTD; great ideas, bullshit execution. <p> As for the doctor "aging", he did went through some character growth; he was reminded that he'll always be alone no matter how many people he meets that will even give their lives to help him. If River met him before and after, it makes sense that she'd notice a difference.

  • The conclusion was in no way as good as the build-up. David Tennant regenerates into David Tennant due to the hand - just as I predicted. The Daleks wanting to destroy reality ?? WTF - they're a conquering, oppressive race. They constantly need somewhere to invade and people to subjugate so THAT made no sense. There was no real death, apart from Donna Who losing her Time Lord sensibilities which she only possessed for about fifteen minutes. Rose and the Doctor get to live happily ever after in an alternate universe, Torchwood had nothing to do apart from stare at a time-frozen Dalek, K-9 made an appearance, everybody went home happy. And, like last season - just when everything seemed hopeless for the heroes, everything gets reset and nobody's physically the worse for wear. Donna has no memory of her adventures so it's as if none of it ever really happened. Her performance on realising that she was going back to being vapid & shallow was a high point. I loved the notion of German speaking Daleks. It made perfect sense that they'd talk in the language of the area they were in, and it was a chilling reminder of the Daleks' origins as being based on the Nazis. I'll miss Catherine Tate. Roll on the Cybermen, and certainly roll on a series director who DOESN'T use the all too convenient reset switch at the end of two consecutive seasons.

  • Come twenty years from now when the new show is in its twentysomethingth series since the restart (depending on the number of breaks), David Tennant isn't going to look exactly the same as he did during his time on the show - also the Doctor will have regenerated numerous times by then. <p> However they could have David Tennant on as the normally aging human copy. Fantastic! <p> In the meantime, I guess we have the opportunity for a multiple Doctor special, either now with David Tennant as the current incumbent (A McGann/Eccleston/Tennant adventure would be great) or later and including Tennant et al.

  • July 6, 2008, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Aww yeah.

    by SpacePhil

    Good stuff, that. Good stuff.

  • July 6, 2008, 3:30 a.m. CST

    Also, moan moan moan.

    by SpacePhil

    Bitch bitch bitch. You guys sure like being angry about something all the time. And hey - look at it this way. The regeneration wasn't a cop-out -- because RTD put the Gun on the Wall all Chekov-style way back two years ago. So hah.

  • July 6, 2008, 4 a.m. CST


    by Horror Freak

    so fucking happy... no new doctor... yes true... fairly drunk right now but so many cope-outs it's not even funny (though it really kind of is) still highly enjoyable.. still leaves the possibility of torchwood series 3 (which makes me happy) i love the fact of rose having her very own doctor... could have been better but it could have been so much worse... 8/10 tardises.....

  • July 6, 2008, 4:01 a.m. CST

    Donna's Song (Spoilers)

    by Sans Souci

    I sort of wish that had been the title of this episode. Her song will be sung forever; she'll just never know it. *sniff* <p> The Good: <p> 1. Davros eclipsed the Master in badassery. And in calling out the Doctor for what he really is. Top props to Julian Bleach for an outstanding performance. Davros labeling the Doctor "Destroyer of Worlds" is the perfect irony considering what he and the Daleks were planning. <p> 2. Donna, of course. I'm one of the few who actually liked the brash and brassy Ms. Noble right off the bat. She wasn't the naive Rose or the inexplicably smitten Martha. She was an old-style companion, more like Sarah Jane in the final analysis. The Tardis scene between her and "Hand Doctor" was brilliant! And as others have suggested, her forgetting the Doctor forever may not last. The Doctor didn't clue in Torchwood or Sarah Jane. Aren't they bound to cross paths with Donna accidentally or intentionally? Even Wilf might spill the beans evetually. But props no matter what to Catherine Tate. I've never seen her show, so I don't know if she's earned the animosity many Who fans displayed for her. She was indeed the Doctor's most loyal companion. <p> 3. The Tardis towing the Earth back home. Corny? Yeah. Implausible? Even for Who, pretty far up there. Enjoyable? Immensely! <p> The Geeky: <p> 4. Davros recognizing Sarah Jane! I could only wish that when the Daleks were de-clawed that she would've gone up to him and given him at least a slap across his leathery face. But who knows? She may yet get the chance. Mwahaha! <p> 5. Dalek Caan's betrayal. Perhaps Dalek Sek's words did make it through to ther other Cult of Skaro members. And even though he royally screwed Davros and this iteration of the Dalek race, one wonders if he had another agenda running behind the prophecies and blather. Could he have pulled another temporal shift and escaped the Crucible?<p> 6. The Doctor and his Companions flying the Tardis together. Now that's just fanboy wankery at its finest! <p> The Bad: <p> 7. Farewall to Rose...and hopefully for good this time. She manages to get her own Doctor to shag and she reacts with all the joy of a bowl of porridge. And honestly, what did she actually DO in the episode other than cross over from the other dimension for cosmic crisis booty call? I know lots of folks love her, but here's hoping her dimension remains permanetly sealed this time! <p> 8. The mighty, unstoppable Daleks are utterly wiped out...yet again. How many times can we see the Daleks "finally, totally destoyed" when we know that they really haven't been? That had gotten old by the second series' finale. It's cheap and it doesn't work. No more "end of the Dalks" please unless you really mean it! <p> The Funny: 9. Daleks speaking German!!!!! So utterly perfect, so completely unexpected. <p> 10. Jack being Jack. "You don't want to know what I'm thinking right now." <p> 3-1/2 stars out of 4. A great ending to the best series of the show so far.

  • July 6, 2008, 4:24 a.m. CST


    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    It appears true then that Mickey is joining Torchwood. Excellent. I loved his character last night. He's become a cool and funny badass, a million miles away from his "I'm the tin dog" days.

  • July 6, 2008, 4:47 a.m. CST

    Haha,If your sitting watching Dr Who at 7pm...

    by pokadoo

    ...on Saturday night, the chances of fucking a woman later are pretty slim.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:01 a.m. CST


    by Oomlot

    Interesting. This sorta makes up for the fact that we never got to watch the Doctor the last time he destroyed the Dalek race. 'I watched it happen, I made it happen'. By the way, anyone who sits around saying the ending wasn't plausible enough - um, it's about an alien in a time machine, reality shouldn't be much of a factor.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:05 a.m. CST

    Donna's fate

    by Volllllume3

    FUCK YOU RTD for copping out on her character's experiences. At least have the BALLS to kill her off completely. This was a very cruel fate indeed! Didn't you hear her before he wiped her memory? Anyone remember? She begged. She begged the Doctor to let her stay. She said "Don't send me back! Please don't send me back." She knew what was going to happen because she had his brain, so she knew that the alternative was death. She knew telling him no meant that she would die. She wanted to stay with him until her dying breath. The Donna that we knew, that we had grown to like/hate was gone. The woman that she had evolved into got erased. If she ever were to even think about the word TARDIS she'd lose her body too. I would rather die knowing that I saved the world then die being a nobody. Just some temp that thought her best attribute was typing 100 words a minute. And the ONLY way she can ever come back is by cheapening her charcter will be by some retarded Deus Ex Machina again (which you will happen eventually!), ugh. So yeah fuck you RTD.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:09 a.m. CST

    There can be no hybrids?

    by grfrog

    So isn't the doctor that went with Rose going to die too? At some point I hope in one of the movies to come the real Doctor shows up and smacks this one around a little, he's just completely useless.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:27 a.m. CST

    The way this seems to be going is that..

    by emeraldboy

    the Dr will be come a warmonger. Someone who will lack all compassion. I think RTD punished Catherine Tate for what she said at the start of her tenure as Donna Noble. RTD wanted to keep all that stuff about tennant quiet. and she blabbed. RTD punished her by building up her character, giving hints about her direction and knocking her down again.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:52 a.m. CST

    Time to bring back the Time Lords

    by grfrog

    Romana(last scene sealed in an alternate reality that was opened in this episode)+new Key of Time quest(to open wherever time lords went to save themselves)= first new story line of new series? I would like if Donna turned out to be another timelord in hiding, like Susan or something. If they explained that as to why that nonsense worked, it would go down better for me. it seemed like the way they where going, and then they didn't. For the record, last week they where building to the re-gen and all I could look at the whole time was that hand. I kept thinking,"that's their way out" and I bet Donna is special, and has the knack for avoiding the extra special because she is a timelord. The way they did it was just really disappointing.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:59 a.m. CST

    Liked it

    by shellfishh

    Funny line, whoever said they saw a kitchen sink flying past along with the Daleks.<br><Br> Who knows what has been agreed on between Moffatt and RTD, but Davies did a lot of foreshadowing and bringing plot threads together.<br><br> So, will we see River Song? And my take on it was that she expected to meet an older Tennant, not another regeneration.<br><br> Will Donna be back? Was the ring a big red herring? BUT...did anyone notice the ring flash twice in Donna's last scene, when she was on the phone?<br><br> Davros was great, but how do you bring him back after planning to destroy all of reality? Does he go 'back to basics' and just concentrate on fucking up Brighton a little bit?

  • July 6, 2008, 6:04 a.m. CST

    Plot Holes

    by shellfishh

    Who has always had a lot of plot holes that you just kind of have to overlook, so I will only bring up one.<br><br> You can't even WHISPER a word about the Doctor or Donna will go up like a bonfire, but it's okay that she actually SEES AND TALKS TO HIM? And he has the Tardis parked right outside where she can see it out her bedroom window? Puh-lease.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:15 a.m. CST

    Did we ever resolve the missing bees thing ?

    by RobinP

    It was mentioned last week, but...then.....nothing.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:24 a.m. CST

    I'm sad.... no more Bernard Cribbins!!

    by football

    He was the best actor in this rather messy finale.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:24 a.m. CST

    Doctor Whoo hoo !

    by Lloydywho

    I reallly liked it! In retrospect after the awesomeness of last week I think it was GREAT! Apparently the BEEB are putting out an announcement about the future of Dr Who tomorrow! Hopefully it is awesome news.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:33 a.m. CST

    loved last weeks episode

    by palewook

    not so much this weeks. had some solid moments. but the ending felt less than it could have been. probably because the buildup was so large.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:46 a.m. CST

    Bill Nighy

    by Chriss

    Whoever made this suggestion - right fucking on. The doctor should be in his late 30s and up. Tennant is just too young (at least young looking, and always acting with a bit of child-like naivety).

  • July 6, 2008, 6:56 a.m. CST

    THE BIGGEST PLOT HOLE noones picked up on

    by Evansvisualarts

    THE BIGGEST PLOT HOLE noones picked up on is the fact that Donna had to have her memory wiped so that she didn't die or whatever ever because her half human/time lord mind couldn't handle the knowledge, well what about the OTHER doctor who is now also half human and a timelord, wouldn't the same thing apply to him!

  • July 6, 2008, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Watching Dr. who at 7pm on a saturday night..

    by Chriss

    ... Dr. Who won't get pregnant, ask for alimony, bitch about how pathetic my career is, complain that I leave my clothe on the floor... and Internet porn never gets old and wrinkly.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:58 a.m. CST

    RobinP, that 'mention' you saw

    by Lemming

    Was the whole explanation. Maybe you should watch it again :)

  • July 6, 2008, 6:58 a.m. CST

    The writing is on the wall....

    by emeraldboy

    The beeb put RTD under huge pressure to finish and for him to wrap his tenure on Dr who. I think that privately they are glad o see the back of him. He comes across as a very demanding and domineering man. Not someone to push around easily. the following piece is from Barbara Ellen in today's observer about Daleks, who and things. Daleks don't frighten me now, but Mamma Mia! - that's scary By now you will know whether Dr Who has been 'regenerated' as David Tennant, or some other lucky actor gasping to be made into a 'action figurine' in time for Christmas. Though frankly, some of us couldn't care less. My childhood love for the series (Tom Baker gave good scarf) never did 'regenerate' for the new version, despite the fact I've been a fan of Russell T Davis since Queer As Folk. I put this down to growing up. Like with Harry Potter, the adults who rave about Dr Who all seem faintly depressing: like superannuated nine-year-olds, only with mortgages and Cranford boxed sets. While Daleks - talking bread bins on casters - are frightening to a child, as an adult, aliens with rubber tentacles, and Catherine Tate doing 'unfunny', is somewhat less terrifying.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:59 a.m. CST

    Chriss...the Doctor can't be Bill Nighy

    by Lemming

    He's supposed to get gradually younger if memory serves. It's the whole wanting to be older when you're young, and younger when you are older thing.

  • July 6, 2008, 7 a.m. CST

    The REAL question is...

    by Lemming

    has he used up another regeneration (of his total 13) just to stay the same?

  • July 6, 2008, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Evansvisualarts, no..

    by Lemming

    the other doctor was a Time Lord with a human half. Donna was a human with a Time Lord half. It was explained it wasn't the same thing.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:18 a.m. CST

    Moan Moan Moan

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Yep there were problems with it but :<br> <br> You can't accuse RTD of using Deus ex Machinas when he clearly sign posted all along what was going to happen<br> <br> The Donna story was heart breaking and not a cop out - I agree with another poster that, in her place, I think I'd rather have died as the new Donna than go back to the old.<br> <br> Cheesey and lacking in any logical scientific plausibility, but wasn't the Tardis towing Earth home one of the most iconic tv moments ever.<br> <br> And nice one Dalek Caan- noticed in watching it today that the question of why he rebuilt the Dalek empire just to destroy it again was explained - he tells the Doctor that all this would have happened anyway- he just helped it along - I'd have done the same just to rub Davros nose in it one more time. <br> <br> Some folks don't like the way Davros ended up as a slave but I rather liked the fact that he was shown up for the rather pathetic knob end he was. If I could bring Hitler back I'd do it not to kill him again but generally to take the piss endlessly. Nicely done.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:21 a.m. CST

    Oh and

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Talking of pathetic Davros I loved the :<br> <br> "It wasn't me it was all Dalek Caans fault" plea to the red Dalek...what a pratt.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:32 a.m. CST


    by Steve Rogers

    Was an okay episode; bits of it I liked but RTD's finales are never as good as their set-up (like last year's epic with The Master). I think his single-parters are brilliant though. <p> The whole excuse of manufacturing an extra Doctor to shack up with Billie -- BLEUURRRGH. Give me a break. Poor old Martha has had her character gutted as well. More of that shit on Torchwood, one assumes.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:36 a.m. CST

    One of the most disappoiinting things

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    One of the most disappointing things was when Rose mentioned the Void had collapsed. by the look on the Doctor's face, he knew the Cybermen and Daleks he sent there had escaped. we already know the Cybermen will be back Christmas, but I am hoping RTD jusy threw a bone for future writers and not specifically giving Steven Moffat a way to bring the Daleks back quickly. they need to be given s rest.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:39 a.m. CST

    Journey's End

    by carefulsilly

    Well... I for one felt rather deflated by the whole thing. One great big pantomime rush around with endless, endless technobabbble and the Daleks appear to have self destruct mechanisms in their cellar. And they appear to have spaceships constructed from concrete. Hmmmm. Let's ponder that one. I really felt for Donna - basically a year of her life wasted. Yes guys I quite agree with some folk on here - if the 'other Doctor' who now resides with Rose is purely human with Time Lord info in his brain, won't he go mental just like Donna would? And yet again Martha did fuck all. Total waste of space that one. Nice of Davros to remember Sarah Jane though, what a memory that guy has... Overall, I felt like a kid at Christmas who worked himself into a frenzy of excitement and then got a jigsaw off his Nan and not much else. Now let's hope we can fucking hear what the Cybermen are saying at Christmas. Sort it out Briggsy! Steven x

  • July 6, 2008, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Torchwood is going

    by emeraldboy

    5 days a week from next year and is moving to bbc one.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:50 a.m. CST

    Rose's other dimension... plot hole?

    by daroru

    I forgot... why did Rose and her Mum HAVE to go back to the other dimension? At the end of the second season they had no choice, is that right? But now...? Micky just decides to stay; why can't they? Surely her dad could get his hands on one of their little teleporter things and come join them. I wonder if that whole bit about the trans-time-dimension-whatever Rose and Co. had been working on (that the Doctor didn't really question her too deeply about) will have a role to play in the Cybermen's Xmas appearance?

  • July 6, 2008, 7:58 a.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    Humans can't absorb Time Lord qualities without going up in flames. Time Lords have no trouble absorbing human qualities. <br><br>Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

  • July 6, 2008, 8:05 a.m. CST

    No less than 3 deus ex machinas

    by ScaryJim

    What fucking tripe. Kids aren't this stupid. cop out regen too. BOLLOCKS BOLLOCKS BOLLOCKS.

  • July 6, 2008, 8:07 a.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    Mickey chose to stay on 'real' earth. His main reasons for being on the other were gone.<br><br> Jackie went back because that's where her family was.<br><br> Rose...that's a little trickier. She did want nothing else than to travel with the doctor forever. The best I can come up with is that she was given a task of guarding a dangerous person. A half-human, angry Time Lord. And even though it didn't let her travel in the tardis, it did give her a Doctor that she could live a 'normal' life with.

  • July 6, 2008, 8:10 a.m. CST


    by RaveX

    they stayed in alt dimension because, over there, THEY ARE FILTHY RICH! <p> and rose, like her mum, is a material girl.

  • July 6, 2008, 8:34 a.m. CST


    by daroru

    Love it! Of course! How could I have missed that one...!

  • July 6, 2008, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Overnight Ratings 9.4m

    by ROBE

    The Overnight Ratings are in for 4.13: Journey's End show that the episode achieved 9.4m viewers with a 45.9% audience share. Doctor Who was the most-watched programme on Saturday for all UK TV channels and currently the most-watched programme of the week with only Sunday to go. So unless there is some major even today that gets lots of people watching this will be the first time ever Doctor Who has been the #1 show of the week. Previous highest was 2007 Christmas Special Voyage of the Damned that was #2.

  • July 6, 2008, 9 a.m. CST

    Iconic moments

    by Oomlot

    Damn straight, watching the earth being towed by a little police box, and that music, and basically the Doctor's entire posse working the tardis, and of course when he says to Jackie 'no, no, not you Jackie, just stand back'. it was an awesome moment of television. And clearly the daleks need to get power from somewhere, they presumably have to recharge - borg style - or something similar, and all they did to blow them up was send too much power at once, not overly complex, afterall it is very easy to overload any electronic device.

  • July 6, 2008, 9:01 a.m. CST


    by daroru

    Hmm... I don't know. The whole tone of the thing was that they HAD to go back... so they may as well send the new Doctor over to keep Rose company. Not that they had to go back IN ORDER to take the new Doctor to another dimension. Again, I can't remember the reason they had to stay in the other dimension originally. That may have been clearly explained in previous episodes. But then whatever that reason was doesn't apply to Micky...

  • July 6, 2008, 9:36 a.m. CST


    by Randall_Flagg

    I love me some Dr Who as much as the next guy but do we really need yet another christmas invasion of earth? Let alone one by the Cybermen? I just wish that there was one peson in the whole of the BBC script writing dept who could come up with a new iconic adversary for The Doc. Also, am I right in thinking that Timelords can only regenerate 12 times but they got around this in the old series by making The Master a parasitic bodysnatcher....

  • July 6, 2008, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Best series yet....

    by DimensionsPlural

    ...said it all along, wasn't wrong. Oh, and it's about bloody time they remembered the cybermen. Best villains ever! Now, sea devils for season 5 please!

  • July 6, 2008, 9:56 a.m. CST

    RTD is dead! Long Live RTD!

    by captain_kirk

    Russell T. Davies is awesome. NO way around it. The man who conceived of and resurrected a series that needed to be "regenerated" succeeded in, despite not being necessarily the "best written" episode, of all time, one of the most iconic doctor who episodes ever, and one that I think we will all be talking about years later. It had the look and feel of something epic. Characters that RTD helped create and bring into the fold. A family. The finally long overdue resolution of Rose. BTW, guys, I never really bought into the Rose/Doctor thing, and the resolution at Bad Wolf Bay is a, pathetic, for Rose, but still. We get to say goodbye to her. As for the New Torchwood crew, I think it's going to be interesting what happens, if we go in the direction we seem to be. I only now picked up on the new UNIT designation - guess I'm slow...but in any event, terrific episode. Logic stretches and all, one of the best. Thank you for your service, RTD, and thank you for returning the doctor.

  • July 6, 2008, 9:59 a.m. CST

    It`s Nürnberg or Nuremberg

    by ianrewel

    cool martha came to my city

  • July 6, 2008, 10:12 a.m. CST

    I'm still wondering how Sarah Jane knew where to go?

    by Logo Lou

    Rose had her "team" center her near the Tardis, Jack could do the same thing with his working teleport, but Sarah? They were all looking for the doctor but had no idea where he was. Sarah just hops in her car and starts driving.... to where?

  • July 6, 2008, 10:27 a.m. CST

    Randall_Flagg, the answer to your questions are......

    by axcel1

    YES & YES!!!!!!!!! 'Nuff said (Sorry, guy (or Gal), but, I LOVE the Cybermen, but, I do hope they are for our universe.)

  • July 6, 2008, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Good n Bad

    by Aeronaut

    Enjoyed the finale. The Tardis-Tag-Team. Amazing what they can pull off with the very limited BBC budget. Always refreshing to see a downbeat ending, and this gave us more than one. Said last week I would be disappointed if they went the half-human-doctor-clone route, and they did - so that was the one disappointment. Hopefully Moffatt wil completely ignore that story tangent from 2010.

  • YES, YES, & YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! You did ask 3 questions, didn't you.

  • July 6, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Sea Devils

    by Aeronaut

    Just want to add my name to the petition for the return of the Sea Devils. My earliest memory of Doctor Who giving me nightmares as a kid - a monster burning through the bedroom door.

  • July 6, 2008, 11:07 a.m. CST

    There can only be one Doctor

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    ... His ability to find alternatives to violence is very compelling and is one aspect that separates him from his clones and companions. The closest that any companion gets to his philosophy is Sarah Jane, and even she had no qualms blowing up the Crucible. Another aspect that I liked is that of the differences between the Doctor and his human clone. In essence, it is his responsibility as a Time Lord that prevents him from committing to Rose. The Doctor can only be the Doctor if he has no attachments. I enjoyed the episode. Did does open the door for the possible return of the Time Lords. The most important question is how did Dalek Kann manage to breach the Time Lock... This would require the power of some entity greater than the Time Lords or Daleks. This perhaps could be the Guardians or the Eternals...

  • July 6, 2008, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Harriet Jones, Former Prime Minister...

    by MisterE

    Have we seen the last of Harriet Jones, former Prime Minister? Was that really her that gave her life to protect the Sub-Wave Network last week? She was acting a little quirky, and I wonder if she may have been... <p> ...a Zygon. <p> I've only recently started watching old Tom Baker Doctor Who episodes and don't have a good working knowledge of the older stories, so I don't know if the Zygons have reappeared since "Terror of the Zygons". They would have a vested interest in protecting the Earth from the Daleks if they still wanted to conquer the planet. Maybe the Zygons has kidnapped Harriet Jones at some point in the past and sent out a duplicate to assist against the most recent Dalek Invasion.

  • July 6, 2008, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Hey 2010 is only18 months away :)

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Heck, this is not as bad as I originally anticipated!

  • July 6, 2008, 11:17 a.m. CST

    A Human CAN'T Handle A Timelord Brain!

    by ZeroCorpse

    While a Timelord CAN handle being part human. There's no fucking plot hole. Donna was human, and she got the CONTENTS of the Doctor's brain all mushed up with her own. Her brain isn't as advanced, and she couldn't deal with it. <p> The Doctor II was a Timelord, who had some of Donna's human traits (most notably one heart instead of two), but he WAS NOT HUMAN. He was still a Timelord, and thus having a little extra Donna content in his brain was NO BIG DEAL. <P> PLEASE GUYS, stop saying this is a plot hole. It's not. <p> The only major question I have with this episode is WHY do they keep focusing on Donna's ring? The did close-ups on it a few times... But never got into WHY.

  • July 6, 2008, 11:34 a.m. CST


    by Boba Fat

    I thought that was a red herring about Donna being the Master. Remember the female hand that picked up the ring at then end of last season? In fact with the heart beat Donna moments I was expecting her to open the ring and transform but I think that was all in there to throw us off track at bit.

  • July 6, 2008, 11:58 a.m. CST

    MUCH better than the last episode and a good finale

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    After last week's muddle of an episode, RTD managed to tie the various strings together to give a satisfying conclusion.<p>Rose gets "The Doctor," the universe is saved, "The Doctor" finally makes the RIGHT decision and annihilates the Daleks — yet The Doctor still manages to keep his hands clean of it, Torchwood gets new replacements for Tosh and Owen (and Captain Jack gets two new cabin-boys) and Donna finally gets the opportunity for a brief few minutes to show that she really DOES know everything!<p>I imagine the episode COULD have been better (how did Jack open up the incinerator from the inside after being locked in, and why weren't his clothes even scorched???), but it certainly could've been a lot WORSE.<p>Overall, a good ending to an often sketchy run by RTD. Now we'll see if Mr. Moffet is able to extend his high-quality writing and imagination over the course of a season (or 2 or 3)... not an easy job.

  • July 6, 2008, 12:01 p.m. CST

    just watched it again,

    by notspock2

    I got over some of the logic, (and noticed some explanations i didn't get the first time) and just enjoyed the ride, and what a ride it was. <p> Donna's ring eh? hmmm.. it seems the last shot on the phone was just saying LOOK AT ME I AM A BIG RING, HAVE YOU NOTICED??? *REALLY CONVOLUTED SPEC TIME* So say Donna's ring (which she still has) is the equivalent of the masters watch, it restores her to a time lord, would it also somehow serve to change the CLONE Doctor at the same time and give him , i don't know two hearts and a full regeneration cycle? <P>

  • July 6, 2008, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Donna's ring...

    by MisterE

    By the way, I've gone back and looked for Donna's ring in older Series Four episodes, and the first appearance that I've found is at the beginning of the Moffet-penned episode "Silence in the Library." Donna is wearing the ring before she is scanned into the Library.

  • July 6, 2008, 12:36 p.m. CST

    ZeroCorpse - I think it is a plot hole

    by Reelheed

    It's mentioned over and over again that the 2nd Doc only has one heart. That would suggest he was genetically HUMAN and therefore the same as Donna. However if you want to forgive what is basically sloppy writing then you can.

  • July 6, 2008, 12:48 p.m. CST

    If they're bringing back old villians

    by INWOsuxRED

    my vote would be for Omega over anyone else. Moffat hasn't written anything bringing back old villians though, so we might not see too many when RTD goes.

  • July 6, 2008, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Captain Jack should have buggered Davros.

    by Uncapie

    I mean, he is the interdimensional, galaxy cocksman, isn't he? Davros and the Captain could go off hand-in-hand and the Daleks would have flowers blooming around them as children sang songs. Daleks would turn into the peace-loving hippies of the late sixties. Wouldn't that be grand? With appologies to the late, great Mr.Terry Nation.

  • July 6, 2008, 12:59 p.m. CST

    of course he didn't kill Donna

    by scourge0

    um. look how he freaks out about weapons and the thought of anybody dying for ANY reason! same reason he put River Song into the Matrix. so, even though Donna's back to being a temp, she didn't have to die a horrible death - granted, for her that would be better, but the Doctor can't allow people to die if he can help it. hence, one of the great things about this show - the moral dilemmas of a character who tries to be a pacifist (but fails).

  • July 6, 2008, 1:15 p.m. CST

    mutant doctor = Valeyard?

    by Dreamfasting

    My first thought on seeing the parallel Doctor (with a more casual attitude towards mass destruction) was "hey, cool, they've created the Valeyard" (not a character I liked, but it would be an interesting spin on his origin - admittedly he'd have to regain the ability to regenerate, but that's a pretty small obstacle to overcome relative to reopening parallel universes).<BR><BR>But then it was a little jarring to have that thought going through my head as the Doctor goes "he's too destructive and dangerous for my universe; here Rose, why don't you hook up with him".

  • July 6, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Donna's ring

    by INWOsuxRED

    Some of the spoiler sights suggested that Donna had read the TARDIS diary at some point, although I don't think the emotions she displayed suggest she knew she was going into the ring or what was going to happen. She didn't have it in the Unicorn & The Wasp(which ends with a suggestion Agatha Christie did remember her adventure). It appears she may have it as far back as the Sontaran episodes, although that may have been a different giant ring.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST

    RTD sabotaged Doctor Who...

    by Ray Gamma

    I think RTD sabotaged the series by filling the final episode with so many gaping plot holes that no future writer would ever be able to repair the storylines. </P> <P> For example, if it was so easy for the Doctor to deliver Rose back to her exile in the ¨alternative dimension¨ at the end of the episode, then why didn't he just fucking go there two years ago when she was first sent there? I'll tell you why: It's because it's a GAPING PLOT HOLE.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    It can't be a plot hole because we don't know what happened next. If Doctor Two lives out a happy human life and nothing happens, the explaination that he is a downgraded Time Lord rather than an upgraded human could pass, even though I don't like it. But we don't know that he doesn't melt down like Donna as soon as the TARDIS leaves. I don't think the Doctor's explaination totally writes off the idea that Doctor Two wouldn't have the same reaction. He or Rose could find a cure that would cause him to regenerate into the Valeyard or something else. The Doctor didn't see it coming with Donna, so why would he see it or even give any consideration to it happening to the other Doctor? Nothing he can do about it now anyway. Personally I think Rose is too shallow to be with that guy. She loved the guy with two hearts(I don't think she cared what face he had) and the blue box. I tend to think she would resent this guy with one heart and no transport and dump him like Mickey or she would encourage him to work on opening the rift again and he would because he doesn't have the same moral compass as the real Doctor.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Reelheed, no

    by Lemming

    It was also mentioned over and over that he was only part human. So 'genetically' (whatever the hell you've decided that means) he isn't human.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:39 p.m. CST

    INWOsuxRED, we do know what happens

    by Lemming

    "I'll age like a human". It was spelled out. He was going to live a normal human life-span with Rose.<p>I can't for the life of me think why some of you found it so hard to grasp the situation with Donna and Doctor 2. I thought it was pretty damn simple.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Ray Gamma, once again..

    by Lemming

    an idiot talkbacker who appears to watch the show but not actually listen to any dialogue. The reason they could go back there and the teleporters were working was because of what Davros was doing with the 'planet engine'. It was weakening the barriers between dimensions. How do I know this? BECAUSE THEY SAID IT DURING THE FRIGGING EPISODE!!! *bangs head on wall*

  • July 6, 2008, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Typical Talkback:

    by Lemming

    Using the example sentence:<p> "I have a Sheep and it is Woolly"<p>Talkbacker 1: Yes, but what if the Sheep is really a wolf in disguise so it supports my bat-shit insane theory!?<p>Talkerbacker 2: Yes, but what if by 'have a Sheep' he means having sex with it. That makes more sense to me because it's more complicated, and the simplest answer for a throwaway line is NEVER ALLOWED!<p>Talkbacker 3: OMG! He didn't even say that the Sheep was Wolly! GAPING PLOT HOLE!

  • July 6, 2008, 1:53 p.m. CST

    INWOsuxRED (RE: Donna's ring)...

    by MisterE

    INWOsuxRED, I checked and you are correct about Donna's ring appearing in the Sontaran two-parter. She is wearing a different large ring on her left hand for most of that story, but is wearing the ring-in-question at the end of part two, "The Poison Sky". She is at home visiting her mother and grand father, and could have picked it up at that time.

  • July 6, 2008, 1:57 p.m. CST


    by Uncapie

    With apologies to "West Side Story:" Rose is gonna; fuck the Doctor toniiiiight. The Daleks are gonna rumble toniiiiight. The Doctor's gonna show them who's tough. We ain't gonna stand for no gruff! TONIGHT!

  • July 6, 2008, 2:05 p.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    Again, even the Doctor didn't see Donna's problem coming, so how could you trust his judgement on that growth he left in the other universe? Just because he says he will live out his life with Rose like a human doesn't mean it actually happens. As of right now, we do not know what happens to Rose and her half Doctor. We may be left to wonder what happens, or they may go back to that well at any time and go in any direction they want. Just because you have decided that story is complete doesn't make it so. Most people would have said the Rose Tyler story was finished when she was left with Mickey and her family and no Doctor in the other universe, but that didn't make it so.

  • July 6, 2008, 2:26 p.m. CST



    Fun in many ways but not great. Just too much of everything going on. Hope this is the last we see of Rose, Martha et al for a very long time. We seem to hear so much about the Doc 'moving on' but new seasons 1-4 seemed to be in an incestuous loop. HATED the Frankie Howard impressions in the Doc and Donna scene!! Would love to see a new smart assistant (Sally obviously) but otherwise someone from a different era (Victorian would be fun). A new Doc must be on the cards too-David is great but it just feels that his time is almost up.

  • July 6, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Outstanding conclusion

    by u.k. star

    Funny, tense, dramatic well executed and so on, and so on. My 8 year old loved it, my wife lovedd it, my mum loved it, right accross the board, what more do you want. I'm always intrigued by people who seem so desperate to find "flaws" in logic etc that they overlook the blatantly obvious to "show up" the alledged errors. Oh and all the "old geeks" who have something against RTD (some of his stories are rather juvinille but it is a kid's show you know?) Dr who is the biggest thing on U.k tv for years, Outside of the 2 powerhouse soap operas it's the most popular tv show in Britain. It has attracted some of the better British actors around. You know why all odf this is so RTD. If it wasn't for him Dr. Who MKII simply would not exist, and if it did it would likely have died a very quick and painful death.

  • July 6, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Lemming's typical talkback - SPOT ON!

    by Steve Rogers

    Hahahahahaha, absolutely excellent. <p> I hope to Christ that the ruddy story of the Tylers is now OVER and we never see BIllie in the show again. She did well in her first run, but in this was reduced to largely standing around ande, to be honest, bringing her back only cheapened the genuinely great emotional moment of her farewell in Doomsday (and why was her bloody mum involved? No reason at all). Leave well enough alone. <p> Also not a fan of the alterna-Doctor, evidently just created to shack up with Rose and give her a reason to stay out of the show.

  • July 6, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Dimensional Retro

    by football

    Yes, the return of Davros was most welcome but when all said and done the ending was pretty Bad Wolf. I guess we'll be seeing the return of the Time Lords of Gallifrey now the Time Lock is broken. Shame they can't give Bernard Cribbens a ride in the Tardis in future episodes. His acting was practically "Method" compared to the rest, Tennant aside.

  • July 6, 2008, 2:44 p.m. CST


    by Jamesonite

    I enjoyed the irony that they referenced Genesis Of The Daleks, where the doctor was "ordered" by the Timelords to kill the Daleks, and the Doctor knew he couldn't morally kill a race and he had to accept the good the Daleks brought to the galaxy. Yet in this episode the Human-Doctor commits genocide because of the potential evil of a Dalek empire.

  • July 6, 2008, 3:01 p.m. CST


    by notspock2

    I am talkbacker 1 AND 2. <p> *BEAMS PROUDLY* <p> Given how fast the episode moved last night, i think a lot of people can be easily forgiven for missing the often 1 or 2 line explanations given for things... The episode worked better for me on second viewing.

  • July 6, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST

    about donna not dying and other stuff...

    by RaveX

    I'm not really sure how all of this works. I started watching who with "rose", and haven't seen any older stuff other then '96 movie. <p> also I'm not from over there, but I do understand that this is pretty big thing in UK. and that it is aimed at kids. <p> so, my question would be, is killing a companion even an option? I guess all the "BOO!" and "something is waiting for you in the dark" in the world is OK, because it scares kids without leaving some emotional trauma. <p> DW is, the way I see it at least, a major franchise. so, could RTD (or moffat, once he takes over) create a companion character, build him/her up over the course of a season or two, and then kill the companion. <p> not leave in parallel dimension, not have memory erased, but kill. <p> would bbc allow show runner to do something like that, or would they be too afraid of losing their young viewers?

  • July 6, 2008, 3:22 p.m. CST


    by notspock2

    Well they haven't so far this series, but when i was younger i was distraught when they killed Adric, one of the 5th Doctor's companions.

  • July 6, 2008, 3:39 p.m. CST

    ALEXIS DENISOF for the doctor

    by Mr_X

    is a fucking brilliant suggestion. this episode i dunno, was kinda a let down really it promised so much and delivered so little

  • July 6, 2008, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Lemming & INWOsuxRED

    by Reelheed

    The point here is that you and others can choose to selectively ignore the parts of the story that dont make sense because you a)enjoyed watching it anyway and b) want to like it. There isnt anything wrong with that. However following the shows own logic the clone doctor was clearly reborn as a human with all the doctors memories (therefore part timelord). He says he has one heart. He'll age. He'll die and never regenerate. And he also kills. As to the point of donnas breakdown coming as a suprise to the doctor - I suggest you log onto the bbc iplayer and watch the scene again because it plays out very differently to how you remember it. The doctor is not suprised in the least. And Lemming, as to my use of the term "genetically" - I wasn't aware genetics was so obscure that I'd have to explain it. Go have a look at wikipedia if you're feeling ignorant.

  • July 6, 2008, 4:04 p.m. CST

    The Doctor DID know...

    by shellfishh

    The Doctor DID know what was (or was going to happen) to Donna. As soon as the first symptom showed up, he knew exactly what was happening. It was even implied that Donna knew, but was ignoring, that she couldn't stay in that condition.

  • July 6, 2008, 4:06 p.m. CST


    by Reelheed

    I regret posting all that above. You really like it and thats cool. Soz. You've even convinced me that it was a great episode. Hurray! Another one for the history books!

  • July 6, 2008, 4:06 p.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    as Reelheed apparently noted two minutes before me as I was typing.

  • July 6, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Mr_X, to be honest...........

    by axcel1

    This episode I know, was the best finale to date, really, it promised so little and delivered so much, it was PERFECT. I will end this post as I always do, I hope you all enjoy the xmas special this year and the 4 "Bank Holiday Specials" next year, I alreadt know I will. (Because, it's the return of the Cybermen, YEAH BABY!!!!!)

  • July 6, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    WTF is everybody's problem???

    by funkyknitwear

    everyone i know fucking loved it! Acting was great. we got a real resolution to the dotor / rose story. donna was excellent, as was grandad. davros was amazing. even sarah jane acted well -look back to the tom baker years and you'll see what i mean! loved the return to bad wolf bay - my other half has been traumatised by that fot 2 years, and finally frrls at peace. only bad point: no more donna. best assistant so far. no question. she HAS to come back!

  • July 6, 2008, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Having watched it again...

    by Steve Rogers

    I definitely think RTD should've resisted the urge to pack so many former companions and their families in. Inevitably some of them got the shaft (you could tell from the way Collinson and Davies go out of their way in Confidential and the podcast to say that Martha has a "great storyline" that they really know that they gave her fuck all. Jackie Tyler being there was totally pointless.

  • July 6, 2008, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Re: Charlie Brooker

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Yep Darkocity, Brooker is a fan of new-Who. Or at least he was around the time Martha first arrived. Here's his column at the time, complete with the 'piss off' quote -<p>

  • July 6, 2008, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Steve Rogers, I think the reason

    by Lemming

    RTD had them all in is because it's not just a season finale it's his finale, which is why it ended arcs for most of the characters he created. It's also the reason why people should forget about this 'other doctor' or Donna having any kind of hidden stories repercussions. RTD wanted to tie everything off as he's leaving the series. I think it's probably that simple.<p>I'd bet any money the three specials we get will be very stand-alone and self-contained.

  • July 6, 2008, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Cribbins is the man!

    by CloneRangerUK

    Watched the repeat on BBC3 tonight & his exchange with Tennant made me even more teary-eyed & blubby than the first showing! So wish he could be a companion. Also watching it the second time does clear up a few more answers, as watching it for the first time it is too fast paced & whizzes around without drawing breath, is also sometmes difficult making out what the characters are saying some of the time. Mickey staying on normal earth made sense as his gran had passed on in parallel earth. Thought RTD was going to undo all that he had done for the new showrunner, so where the hell are the timelords?! Good point made above about the void collapsing & the Cybermen in Xmas ep possibly being from there. If that is the case what happenned to the pure Dalek escappees from the Genesis Ark/Time War? P.S. Davros was brilliantly realised, best since Genesis of the Daleks, definately a touch of Palpatine in there too(perhaps it was the rotten teeth & talk of fufilling prophesies?)

  • July 6, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST


    by Aeronaut

    Felt sorry initially for blue-suit Doc v2.0. He had to stand there whilst Rose made it clear he isn't the 'real deal' and only 2nd prize in her opinion. But then he avoids a night on the sofa by whispering in her ear "I have yet to show you all the uses of the sonic screwdriver."

  • July 6, 2008, 5:21 p.m. CST

    Absolute garbage

    by kwisatzhaderach

    A 10 year old kid could have come up with a better plotline. And to call the wrapping up of Rose and Donna's storylines disappointing is the understatement of the century. The Moff can pull the show back from the brink though.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Actually, the biggest plot hole was...

    by Mr Willi

    Dalek Caan. If he wanted to kill off the Daleks in the first place, why did he save Davros and let him build a new Dalek army? He could have left Davros to his fate in the Time War. Again, this is RTD writing -- the guy just makes it up as he goes along, and doesn't care if logic gets in the way of a plot.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:25 p.m. CST


    by Mr Willi

    That is b/c everyone you know isn't that bright. It takes more than one-liners and fancy special effects to make a good story. It takes logical plotting and intelligent resolutions to the problems facing the characters. Having Donna suddenly acquire a time lord brain and defeat the Daleks using a magical keyboard is not good writing.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Mr Willi

    by INWOsuxRED

    I think he saved Davros simply by entering the time war. He poked the hole that they were able to escape from or they were at least able to use him to escape, once he went in. Everything was set in motion, so Caan probably didn't have the option to change his mind by the time he was in there and all crazy. Caan suggested they would have escaped without any additional help from him, and just the fact that he was a basement prisoner rather than one of them makes it seem to me that he wasn't doing all that much to actively help them. If Davros didn't build the army and start his plan, the Doctor and his friends wouldn't have noticed him and wouldn't have killed them off.

  • July 6, 2008, 5:33 p.m. CST

    i expected to hate it

    by BeatsMe

    but that was pretty freakin' good i didn't even mind Mickey or Jack...yikes!

  • July 6, 2008, 5:40 p.m. CST

    News reports claim RTD watched the episode 15 times

    by rosasaks

    Poor bastard. Do you think it's dawned on him yet what was wrong with it?

  • July 6, 2008, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Mr Willi

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Well done for discovering that Dalek Caan plothole, only a day after it was in my review. Not that I'm boasting or anything.<P>You must be one of those 'bright' people that you talk of.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:07 p.m. CST

    The Master's 12 regenerations ...

    by Shan

    Basically, the story in the show was that the Master had burned through his regenerations in record speed, leading to the rotting decayed appearance he had in The Deadly Assassin. He then went on to hijacking bodies after that. Why the body of Tremas (from The Keeper of Traken) never actually decayed (not being a Time Lord body) is something they never went into. I guess, he must have been made of sterner stuff than Eric Roberts. In real life, the first (onscreen) Master, Roger Delgado was killed when his limousine went off a cliff in Turkey in 1973. This probably hastened Jon Pertwee's departure from the series. They were having to decide what to do next with the Master and the successive appearances of the Master and the state he was in were the solution to that.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Let's see some NEW villians now!

    by hamster factor

    The great thing about Moffat's episodes up until this point has been his ability to create new opponents for the doctor that feel totally fresh yet still carry weight. To me the angels in "Blink" are infinitely more interesting, creepy and menacing than the Daleks or the Cybermen. "Blink", "The Girl in the Fireplace", and the two part Library episode are definitely my favorties of all 4 seasons - and they all featured innovative story telling along with all new menaces for the doctor to face. Let's hope series 5 follows this model, I think we've seen more than enough of the Daleks for now (and this is not meant as another bash of RTD - though some of his episodes are among the weakest - I also really liked others including "Smith and Jones" "Gridlock", and even "Midnight".

  • July 6, 2008, 6:19 p.m. CST

    enjoyed the episode for the most part...

    by kendragon

    even though I cringed at quite a lot of it... especially the Earth-towing part... could they have not have, like, spun around it in the tardis superman style and created a fluxed temporal vortex type warp field cloaking shield to stop it flying apart or something??? LOL. Tell you one thing that would have really made the episode for me though... If the Doc had called Davros their bitch instead of pet... yeah i know it wouldnt be suitable for the kiddies but it would have been cool.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:40 p.m. CST

    The problem with new villains....

    by dj_bollocks

    is that they inevitably suffer from Ferenghi syndrome. The Ferenghi were supposed to be the big bad on ST:TNG but came across as being a bit shit really... As we have now discovered RTD has no great skill in creating things just revitalising them. There's been no great inventions in the 4 years new Who has been on. That will be the true sign of Who success - can they create a new villain that eclipses all the old ones...

  • July 6, 2008, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Christmas special

    by BernardBond

    i live by the cemetery that was in the teaser and seen the filming, it looked very awesome. Bring it on! the return of The Doctors baddest villains. The Cybermen.

  • July 6, 2008, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Yes, new villains will be compared with the old

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    That's the struggle that the new-Who writers have. Whenever they create a new villain there'll always be critics saying "They aren't as good as the Daleks/Cybermen/Sea Devils etc"<P>Whereas when someone like Terry Nation created the Daleks there wasn't anyone back then saying "They aren't as good as the..... ah wait, we haven't got anything to compare them to yet."

  • July 6, 2008, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Hey, me being serious now.......

    by axcel1

    You guys (and gals) have going on and on about RTD leaving, but, no one has said anything about someone else leaving from behind the camera. Phil Collinson, anyone know who he is?

  • July 6, 2008, 7:30 p.m. CST

    Lemming, re: Davies departure/companions

    by Steve Rogers

    I think you're right that RTD was working them all in because it was his final series finale, but ultimately the show is about the characters, not him. There were too many of them and not enough to do. <p> And as far wrapping up storylines - I'd say that Rose, Jackie et al had their storylines wrapped up pretty definitively at the end of series 2. This wasn't worth bringing them back for and undoing the pathos of that ending. If Noel Clarke wants to be in Torchwood that's his lookout, but Who didn't need them back. <p> Don't get me wrong, I think it was well-intentioned; RTD cannot resist those big "ooh -wow!" ideas (a bit like having Tennant appear to regenerate because it would be "the biggest cliffhanger ever"; he was right, it was, but it has ultimately pre-emptively cheapened DT's actual regeneration, whenever that comes).

  • July 6, 2008, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Oh, and was anyone else hoping for Ace Rimmer...

    by Steve Rogers

    when Mickey said the words "Dimension jump"? I tell you what, if Ace Rimmer had leapt in and started shooting Daleks my appreciation for this episode would've gone up 10000000%. RTD could pretty much do what he liked after that.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST

    As for John Simm as the Master ...

    by Shan

    Sir Derek Jacobi was just great. The way his voice and especially his body language changed after he opened the watch was amazing. In fact, his voice reminded me so much of Roger Delgado's Master it was incredible. It certainly re-inforces the fact he is one of the greatest actors of his generation. <p> John Simm is a very good actor. We've seen Life on Mars. Unfortunately, he was given some terrible dialogue and scenes to work with. The Master has always been meglomaniacal but never so over the top juvenile in behaviour in the series as he was in the last two episodes of Season 3 (of the new run). Maybe John Simm's Master caught a bit of what was afflicting Eric Roberts in the TV Movie, whose Master also had bizarre behaviour that Eric Roberts was forced to do by that script.

  • July 6, 2008, 7:36 p.m. CST

    Steve Rogers, Ace Rimmer would be simply WRONG

    by TheHichhiker

    But then again.... "Smoke me a Cyberman, I'll be back for Christmas...."

  • July 6, 2008, 7:41 p.m. CST

    Best. Davros. Ever.

    by Vader's Leash

    seriously, great performance. I recon Davros is all about the voice and that was a seriously great performance. Found a great Dalek song yesterday

  • July 6, 2008, 8:12 p.m. CST

    Handsome 12th Doctor

    by Mr Willi

    Don't read the reviews. Too many spoilers, and too many "this is fantastic!" for episodes that were crap. Glad you noticed the Caan bit... I'll consider you smarter than the average reviewer.

  • July 6, 2008, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Companion death

    by bellwether

    A couple died early on in The Dalek's Master Plan. Katarina went out the airlock and Sara aged to death. The most famous death was Adric, who crashed a spaceship in Earthshock, and I seem to remember the reaction was much what you'd expect if Wesley Crusher was brutally killed on the bridge of the Enterprise. Since then they've been pretty safe - usually no more than mostly dead for brief periods.

  • July 6, 2008, 8:44 p.m. CST

    Donna's Ring

    by Mad Max Rockatansky

    Isnt that the ring that the Doctor gave her in The Runaway Bride at the end? i mean so many people are speculating about it. i was hoping that someone would die in the finale - actually was expecting donna to die since she doesnt have her own spinoff. i feel kinda gipped that it didnt happen.

  • July 6, 2008, 8:59 p.m. CST

    the ring....

    by mr. flibble

    nope its a different one Max, the ring he gave her was nearer the beginning, plain silver and actually a Biodampner. Freud once said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Donnas' ring may just be a ring, the precedent of the Masters ring having such prominence is misleading. Her character is done, finito, the ring is irrelevant, as was the suggestion of her hearing "drums". As to companions, I'd also like to see a character from the past, would be great to see the wonder at them seeing things even in our own time as amazing. But, the cultural relevance would be absent, perhaps 2 new companions may be the way. But I don't see them choosing anyone till 2010. I don't think the specials next year will allow for a decent intro and development of a true companion.

  • July 6, 2008, 10:50 p.m. CST

    The Good, The Bad, & The What-The?!?

    by Amy Chasing

    The Good: acting; special effects; character moments between Doctor & Davros, Doctor & Donna, and... nup, that's about it. <P> The Bad: using regeneration to heal only (makes you wonder if his body thought it was done-for enough to regenerate, his wounds should have been life threatening) and that left a bad taste in the mouth right from the start; The scene in Germany; All Daleks controlled from a keyboard; Having Sarah Jane and Rose in the story at all when they had perfectly good endings to their characters already - sometimes things are "best left unsaid" is the right way to go; Earth being towed; All the "good guys" jumping and hugging around the TARDIS console like the Wiggles. <P> The What-The: regeneration is optional if you keep spare body parts; cloned half-breed Timelord/Humans just by touching; a literal spark from Davros to "awaken" the Timelord in Donna; that even an angry Doctor would stoop to genocide; stuff I'm sure I left out (like if all of reality is Daleks, where can they go for a holiday and who will serve them?). <P> oh, and did Dalek Caan decide the Daleks were going the wrong way about things before or after he got Davros out of the Time War? Because if it were after then why'd he get him out?

  • July 6, 2008, 10:55 p.m. CST

    on yer bike Russell

    by Maniaq

    don't let the door hit you on the way out

  • July 6, 2008, 11:27 p.m. CST

    I liked (sort of) and YES to Alexis Denisof

    by Brians Life

    That is a fucking GREAT suggestion...well, other than him NOT actually being British, which I'm sure would be a big deal to the Brits.<br><br>I just watched the finale for the second time and it GOT me ALOT more this time around.<br><br>I've never been a fan of Tate's Donna, but MAAAAAAN do you feel for her by the conclusion. I watched with my girlfirend who LOVES Donna because she's the anti-Rose or anti-Martha....she's sassy and has no romantic interest in the Doctor.<br><br>Anyway...she was genuinely upset at Donna's fate. She said "I'd rather she was dead."<br><br>I agreed. Like it or not, that's a genuine reaction to a director's work. So....WELL DONE, Russel...but I can't say I'm not excited to see a new take.

  • July 6, 2008, 11:29 p.m. CST

    When Donna's ring touched the hand...

    by Bill Clay

    ...I thought for sure that the body regenerating on the floor would be The Master. What an episode that would have been! All reality rescued by the Doctor's arch enemy! Can you imagine the scenes of Tennant and Simm working at the Tardis together? And as a bonus, it would have eliminated the Brown Doctor/Blue Doctor nonsense.

  • July 6, 2008, 11:47 p.m. CST


    by lfhlaw

    I enjoyed the last doctor who for a while even if it was the daleks again. But When they showed the Christmas promo, i was like Cyberman Again? But I'll watch it anyhow. So the next 4 movies will be Daleks and Cyberman back and forth lol. or maybe the ood will be featured in one again.

  • July 7, 2008, midnight CST


    by The Marquis de Side 3

    If you go back to the 1969 serial, "The War Games" with Patrick Troughton as the second Doctor, the Time Lords wipe his companions' memories and both Zoe and Jamie are put back into their respective time lines just after they met the Doctor. Their memories of their journies with the Doctor were completely erased. So the whole Donna memory wipe thing is not new. And it's actually more tragic than having her actually die. It's like watching someone with Alzheimer's -- it's too tragic for words.

  • July 7, 2008, 1:54 a.m. CST

    heard the episode commentary from producers

    by board shitlez

    apparently the shadow proclamation were meant to be in it again and it was going to be pretty much every alien from the last four series - and they ran out of cash. Makes sense - the whole plot thread was left a bit hanging. Still loved it tho, esp the Davros freak out. (DFO)

  • July 7, 2008, 2:07 a.m. CST

    thank Rassilon they ran out of cash!

    by Amy Chasing

    would have made a messy end even worse with more aliens & characters. They gotta remember they're doing Doctor Who, not The Muppet Show.

  • July 7, 2008, 2:20 a.m. CST

    as for the 4 telemovies...

    by Amy Chasing

    surely the Doctor's "daughter" has to show up - what was the point of that episode if only to create her character. Or wouldn't it be nice if she got the Moffat treatment - and a proper death scene. Overall season 4 was pretty good, but I still think season 2 was better and season 1 had the best ending.

  • July 7, 2008, 2:24 a.m. CST

    The death of (a particular companion)/Earthshock

    by Shan

    That was a big thing in the show because it was so unexpected. The whole Earthshock story was very well done, from the actually quite scary first episode in the caves, where people were melted just leaving their ID badges, weapons that were next to useless against matte black killer robots and an unexpected final scene where a companion without warning buys the farm. That plus no music over the final credits, it was good stuff. Occasionally the Peter Davison era cops some flack but this story plus The Caves of Androzani mark his time as a good one. That plus he timed his exit perfectly. Too many of the stories that followed (including the very next one) were just embarrassing for all involved. <p> Though mind you, history has been kinder to Colin Baker than events at the time. If he'd just been given some better scripts and a proper costume, it could have been different.

  • July 7, 2008, 2:28 a.m. CST

    PS One more vote for Omega

    by Shan

    Another vote for bringing back Omega. They could also use it as a reason to bring Peter Davison back on the show (as Omega) as last we saw of Omega, he had the 5th Doctor's genetic imprint. The 'aged' appearance could be put down to the antimatter explosion in Amsterdam he was in (no need to muck about with 5th/10th Doctor time differentials again).

  • July 7, 2008, 3:51 a.m. CST

    Not only is Julian bleach a great actor but he is

    by emeraldboy

    unbelievably talented. He is a member of the philip glass ensemble. He plays violin. and he created the award winning musical Shockheaded peter.

  • July 7, 2008, 4:16 a.m. CST

    Donna's boobs

    by Volllllume3

    I'll miss those fuckers :(

  • July 7, 2008, 4:59 a.m. CST

    The good, the bad, and the Russell

    by spud mcspud

    **MAJOR SPOILERS AHOY!** There was a lot to recommend that finale. The whole TARDIS-in-peril was a great bit, and the spectacle - seeing 27 planets used to create a galaxy-spanning weapon was amazing! One of the things Rusty DOES do very well is come up with larger-than-life sci-fi concepts that really are great - in that regard, he should have written the Star Wars prequels. Anakin is pretty much gay anyway (why else would he go off Amidala so quick in pt III?!?), and ANYTHING would have been better than the fucked-up Clone wars, so... hmmm. Anyway...<P> Loved the Osterhagen Key too - great idea, very GLOBAL FREQUENCY (you can imagine Miranda Zero having to deal with stopping the Osterhagen Group and their insane Key idea!) , and so much else - the Crucible, Davros, the moments where ALL the new Companions were piloting the TARDIS etc - were real magic. Proper new Who demands this kind of spectacle, and it DELIVERED. And that ending... I'd have never wished that on Donna. She went from reviled yawping fishwife to beloved companion in thirteen episodes, and then RTD turns her back into a bellowing fishwife at the end with no knowledge (and only any non-Doctor related nudges from her dear old Gramps)of the potential she has as a human being. Back to the hairdressers and HEAT magazine and Big Brother and X Factor and every other inane peice of drivel this century can throw at us to keep us dumb. THAT was the biggest tragedy of all: Wilf can try to edge the newly-amnesiac Donna towards that potential, but one word of what she's experienced could kill her dead. BRILLIANT writing, RTD, and too fucking late in the day. Just brilliant though. Although, should Moffat want to bring Donna back for an episode, it could be got round quite easily...<P> The bad and the Russell? Unfortunately tend to go hand-in-hand. He's done his usual trick of setting up some potentially juicy lines of dialogue - "the threefold man", "most beloved companion will die", and all the Dalek prophecies - and just fucking ignoring them all! So WHERE was the threefold man then? And no, the two Doctors and Doctor/Donna don't count - technically Doctor/Donna is half-woman/bellowing fishwife, and the two Doctors are the same man but with one half-human! Cop-out Russell! Same with the companion who would die - I don't remember any major deaths bar Flydale North, and DEFINITELY wouldn't count Donna's memory wipe as a "death" - that's also a major cop-out if that's what RTD intended. The problem with a RTD finale - and it's no different here - is that, on a superficial and non-critical/subjective level, on the spectacular 8-year-old-watching-it level, it's a great show. But think about it, even just for a moment, and it all falls apart. Like the Osterhagen Key - that's a fucking big plot point to just pull out of a bag - like, how would the Doctor NOT know about it? How do you pull off a project that big and keep it utterly secret? One line in PARTNERS IN CRIME to set it up would have been great - Donna: "Ooh, what's going on with these underground bases in Germany? Some mad scientist called Osterhagen? Friend of yoursm, Doctor?" - and then the pay off. But the way Russell writes it, it's like "Ooh, the Daleks have us at their mercy, Davros has us cornered, and ooh - HERE'S THAT DALEK ATOME DE-STABILISING VIRUS HIDDEN IN A COMPARTMENT IN MY SHOE AND YOU NEVER KNEW IT WAS THERE!". THAT kind of lazy, half-arsed plotting that keeps stuff like JOURNEY'S END from being truly great Who. It's fun, it's exciting, it's a rollercoaster ride, but new Who should be so much more - COULD BE so much more, and BLINK and HUMAN NATURE showed us how much more it could be - than just pretty lights and SFX and Tennant gurning and shouting. Give us the Tennant playing the scene where as John Smith, he knew he had to die to become the Doctor, to stop the Family of Blood; give us the Tennant who didn't know River Song; give us the quietly menacing Tennant who warned the Krillitane, "I'm so old. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning - that was it" - not this yawping, gurning fool we so often get. JOURNEY'S END could have ranked as one of the all-time best episodes EVER - as it is, it's just a really good kids' episode, but not the classic that can be rewatched and pored over for years to come that I'd hoped. Still a shame to see RTD get away from the preachy stuff in the early years, to get really, REALLY good in the last few episodes of this season - and then bow out! Four seasons of stuff this good could have been much better than the soapbox shite he saddled us with initially. But better late than never, Russell - and good luck on the next show. Now bring on the Grand Moff Moffat!

  • July 7, 2008, 4:59 a.m. CST

    The good, the bad, and the Russell

    by spud mcspud

    **MAJOR SPOILERS AHOY!** There was a lot to recommend that finale. The whole TARDIS-in-peril was a great bit, and the spectacle - seeing 27 planets used to create a galaxy-spanning weapon was amazing! One of the things Rusty DOES do very well is come up with larger-than-life sci-fi concepts that really are great - in that regard, he should have written the Star Wars prequels. Anakin is pretty much gay anyway (why else would he go off Amidala so quick in pt III?!?), and ANYTHING would have been better than the fucked-up Clone wars, so... hmmm. Anyway...<P> Loved the Osterhagen Key too - great idea, very GLOBAL FREQUENCY (you can imagine Miranda Zero having to deal with stopping the Osterhagen Group and their insane Key idea!) , and so much else - the Crucible, Davros, the moments where ALL the new Companions were piloting the TARDIS etc - were real magic. Proper new Who demands this kind of spectacle, and it DELIVERED. And that ending... I'd have never wished that on Donna. She went from reviled yawping fishwife to beloved companion in thirteen episodes, and then RTD turns her back into a bellowing fishwife at the end with no knowledge (and only any non-Doctor related nudges from her dear old Gramps)of the potential she has as a human being. Back to the hairdressers and HEAT magazine and Big Brother and X Factor and every other inane peice of drivel this century can throw at us to keep us dumb. THAT was the biggest tragedy of all: Wilf can try to edge the newly-amnesiac Donna towards that potential, but one word of what she's experienced could kill her dead. BRILLIANT writing, RTD, and too fucking late in the day. Just brilliant though. Although, should Moffat want to bring Donna back for an episode, it could be got round quite easily...<P> The bad and the Russell? Unfortunately tend to go hand-in-hand. He's done his usual trick of setting up some potentially juicy lines of dialogue - "the threefold man", "most beloved companion will die", and all the Dalek prophecies - and just fucking ignoring them all! So WHERE was the threefold man then? And no, the two Doctors and Doctor/Donna don't count - technically Doctor/Donna is half-woman/bellowing fishwife, and the two Doctors are the same man but with one half-human! Cop-out Russell! Same with the companion who would die - I don't remember any major deaths bar Flydale North, and DEFINITELY wouldn't count Donna's memory wipe as a "death" - that's also a major cop-out if that's what RTD intended. The problem with a RTD finale - and it's no different here - is that, on a superficial and non-critical/subjective level, on the spectacular 8-year-old-watching-it level, it's a great show. But think about it, even just for a moment, and it all falls apart. Like the Osterhagen Key - that's a fucking big plot point to just pull out of a bag - like, how would the Doctor NOT know about it? How do you pull off a project that big and keep it utterly secret? One line in PARTNERS IN CRIME to set it up would have been great - Donna: "Ooh, what's going on with these underground bases in Germany? Some mad scientist called Osterhagen? Friend of yoursm, Doctor?" - and then the pay off. But the way Russell writes it, it's like "Ooh, the Daleks have us at their mercy, Davros has us cornered, and ooh - HERE'S THAT DALEK ATOME DE-STABILISING VIRUS HIDDEN IN A COMPARTMENT IN MY SHOE AND YOU NEVER KNEW IT WAS THERE!". THAT kind of lazy, half-arsed plotting that keeps stuff like JOURNEY'S END from being truly great Who. It's fun, it's exciting, it's a rollercoaster ride, but new Who should be so much more - COULD BE so much more, and BLINK and HUMAN NATURE showed us how much more it could be - than just pretty lights and SFX and Tennant gurning and shouting. Give us the Tennant playing the scene where as John Smith, he knew he had to die to become the Doctor, to stop the Family of Blood; give us the Tennant who didn't know River Song; give us the quietly menacing Tennant who warned the Krillitane, "I'm so old. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning - that was it" - not this yawping, gurning fool we so often get. JOURNEY'S END could have ranked as one of the all-time best episodes EVER - as it is, it's just a really good kids' episode, but not the classic that can be rewatched and pored over for years to come that I'd hoped. Still a shame to see RTD get away from the preachy stuff in the early years, to get really, REALLY good in the last few episodes of this season - and then bow out! Four seasons of stuff this good could have been much better than the soapbox shite he saddled us with initially. But better late than never, Russell - and good luck on the next show. Now bring on the Grand Moff Moffat!

  • July 7, 2008, 4:59 a.m. CST

    The good, the bad, and the Russell

    by spud mcspud

    **MAJOR SPOILERS AHOY!** There was a lot to recommend that finale. The whole TARDIS-in-peril was a great bit, and the spectacle - seeing 27 planets used to create a galaxy-spanning weapon was amazing! One of the things Rusty DOES do very well is come up with larger-than-life sci-fi concepts that really are great - in that regard, he should have written the Star Wars prequels. Anakin is pretty much gay anyway (why else would he go off Amidala so quick in pt III?!?), and ANYTHING would have been better than the fucked-up Clone wars, so... hmmm. Anyway...<P> Loved the Osterhagen Key too - great idea, very GLOBAL FREQUENCY (you can imagine Miranda Zero having to deal with stopping the Osterhagen Group and their insane Key idea!) , and so much else - the Crucible, Davros, the moments where ALL the new Companions were piloting the TARDIS etc - were real magic. Proper new Who demands this kind of spectacle, and it DELIVERED. And that ending... I'd have never wished that on Donna. She went from reviled yawping fishwife to beloved companion in thirteen episodes, and then RTD turns her back into a bellowing fishwife at the end with no knowledge (and only any non-Doctor related nudges from her dear old Gramps)of the potential she has as a human being. Back to the hairdressers and HEAT magazine and Big Brother and X Factor and every other inane peice of drivel this century can throw at us to keep us dumb. THAT was the biggest tragedy of all: Wilf can try to edge the newly-amnesiac Donna towards that potential, but one word of what she's experienced could kill her dead. BRILLIANT writing, RTD, and too fucking late in the day. Just brilliant though. Although, should Moffat want to bring Donna back for an episode, it could be got round quite easily...<P> The bad and the Russell? Unfortunately tend to go hand-in-hand. He's done his usual trick of setting up some potentially juicy lines of dialogue - "the threefold man", "most beloved companion will die", and all the Dalek prophecies - and just fucking ignoring them all! So WHERE was the threefold man then? And no, the two Doctors and Doctor/Donna don't count - technically Doctor/Donna is half-woman/bellowing fishwife, and the two Doctors are the same man but with one half-human! Cop-out Russell! Same with the companion who would die - I don't remember any major deaths bar Flydale North, and DEFINITELY wouldn't count Donna's memory wipe as a "death" - that's also a major cop-out if that's what RTD intended. The problem with a RTD finale - and it's no different here - is that, on a superficial and non-critical/subjective level, on the spectacular 8-year-old-watching-it level, it's a great show. But think about it, even just for a moment, and it all falls apart. Like the Osterhagen Key - that's a fucking big plot point to just pull out of a bag - like, how would the Doctor NOT know about it? How do you pull off a project that big and keep it utterly secret? One line in PARTNERS IN CRIME to set it up would have been great - Donna: "Ooh, what's going on with these underground bases in Germany? Some mad scientist called Osterhagen? Friend of yoursm, Doctor?" - and then the pay off. But the way Russell writes it, it's like "Ooh, the Daleks have us at their mercy, Davros has us cornered, and ooh - HERE'S THAT DALEK ATOME DE-STABILISING VIRUS HIDDEN IN A COMPARTMENT IN MY SHOE AND YOU NEVER KNEW IT WAS THERE!". THAT kind of lazy, half-arsed plotting that keeps stuff like JOURNEY'S END from being truly great Who. It's fun, it's exciting, it's a rollercoaster ride, but new Who should be so much more - COULD BE so much more, and BLINK and HUMAN NATURE showed us how much more it could be - than just pretty lights and SFX and Tennant gurning and shouting. Give us the Tennant playing the scene where as John Smith, he knew he had to die to become the Doctor, to stop the Family of Blood; give us the Tennant who didn't know River Song; give us the quietly menacing Tennant who warned the Krillitane, "I'm so old. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning - that was it" - not this yawping, gurning fool we so often get. JOURNEY'S END could have ranked as one of the all-time best episodes EVER - as it is, it's just a really good kids' episode, but not the classic that can be rewatched and pored over for years to come that I'd hoped. Still a shame to see RTD get away from the preachy stuff in the early years, to get really, REALLY good in the last few episodes of this season - and then bow out! Four seasons of stuff this good could have been much better than the soapbox shite he saddled us with initially. But better late than never, Russell - and good luck on the next show. Now bring on the Grand Moff Moffat!

  • July 7, 2008, 5 a.m. CST

    I'm sorry... I'm so sorry.

    by spud mcspud

    My keyboard is conspiring against me. It's an Osterhagen keyboard :D

  • July 7, 2008, 5:16 a.m. CST

    P.S About Earthshock episode 1:

    by Shan

    It was also in the dark in caves. With matte black killer robots. That had no faces. Who melted people. <p> Scary stuff.

  • July 7, 2008, 6:14 a.m. CST

    it was silly but fun

    by Steve T

    Was a bit of a let down after last week, but not nearly on the scale of season 3's finale! I think the regen think was a cliffhanger they needed to back up and it didn't quite live up to is, even tho there has always clearly been plans for the hand. I thought Donna's ending was in a lot of ways sadder than killing her, taking away the person she had developed into was heartbreaking for the Doctor and Cribbins (who rules. a lot) There was definately too much thrown in to fit comfortably, frankly Rose and co coming back wasn't really needed. Although i am glad to have Mickey back, i always liked him (partly because I like Noel Clarke and partly because Mickey has developed nicely through the series)

  • July 7, 2008, 6:29 a.m. CST

    Scary Daleks??

    by BigEvil78

    the return of davros and the daleks being pure had managed to make the daleks seem scary again.that is until the "and spinning" line from doctor donna and the cries of help me from a spinning dalek. just like that the peeprpots become laughable. and the red dalek wasnt so bad ass after all

  • July 7, 2008, 6:30 a.m. CST

    pepperpots not peeprpots

    by BigEvil78

  • July 7, 2008, 6:37 a.m. CST

    When Donna's ring touched the hand...

    by palewook

    Bill Clay, yeah not sure why, but i hoped rtd was taking us there too.

  • July 7, 2008, 6:42 a.m. CST

    Good Grief

    by bellwether

    The BBC News website is quoting AICN talkbackers.

  • July 7, 2008, 6:49 a.m. CST

    I really loved it

    by Sophievdp

    I don't know why everyone is compaining of cop-outs-sure, having that mothereffing huge ending of the previous episode and then not fully regenerating was a bit of a let down, but we all knew that David Tennant wasn't leaving. And it's not as if we hadn't seen that hand before. We've seen shots of it all season, and last season too. some people may have felt cheated by it but I don't. Donna Noble is now my favourite companion, hands down. I wasn't really sure about it when I heard that she was coming back, but she started growing on me in the 2nd episode and didn't stop. What I love about her is that she truly is the Doctor's best friend, just a great companion. I think her fate is worth than death imo. Catherine Tate did an excellent job, I'm really going to miss her. Also all that stuff about her ring - when you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras! maybe I'm wrong, but her ring is definitely NOT the Master's ring so I don't think it means anything. I know people don't really like RTD's style of writing but if you're just willing to go along with the ride you'll have a good time. I'm looking forward to Moffat taking over, mostly because Blink is my favourite episode, but I am going to miss the way Russell does the huge epic stories, regardless of how they turn out. anyhoo, that was just my two cents. peace out.

  • July 7, 2008, 7:02 a.m. CST

    They Need to Integrate this Who with the Old Who

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Watching the old series again I cannot help but notice the huge disconnect that the new series has with the old. The new series posits the Doctor as the most powerful force in the universe. However, what happened to the Eternals or the Guardians? What the heck happened to Rassilon in his tomb? I think that it is becoming a huge problem because IMHO the Doctor was his best when he was doing the dirty work of the Time Lords or the Guardian. As it is now, he is just some brooding Ronin. The Doctor needs balance in adversaries. He also needs some higher power to bring out some humility. One of my favorite scenes in the 5 Doctors is where Rassilon asks the Doctors if they want immortality, after seeing the President get his, the uniform NO from them all was classic.

  • July 7, 2008, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Better late than never....


    I was away. But I liked this. A Lot. Best (new) Dalek story; Davros was perfect; Tate actually good; plot strands woven well and a satisfying ending, with right degree of emotion. Of course I was disappointed there was no regen, but we knew it wasn't going to happen anyway. The twin Tennants were great. Hands down his best performance in this show. The only bit I didn't like was 'towing the Earth'! I don't think you have to be literal, visually. I much preferred it when we didn't see the Tardis move through space. That's all folks! Until Xmas (hope they do the Cybermen better justice than the last time).

  • July 7, 2008, 7:58 a.m. CST

    BBC News reading AICN...

    by Desmondo

    I am amazed that the BBC research into fan reaction to Dr Who is based on searching AICN talkback and Digital Spy. If they think that we entirely representative of "the shows fans" I think they are more than a little misguided. <p> I reckon if I was 13 I totally would have thought having TWO Doctors was amazing. And probably thought CT impersonating the Dr was the funniest thing ever. Not to mention everyones favourite - Mickey.<p> Maybe we are the reason RTD is 'leaving' this year, never to write another episode of Who. Most of these forums posts are essentially RTD hate-mail.

  • July 7, 2008, 8:07 a.m. CST

    The Power of the Doctor...

    by mr. flibble

    ...I dunno Darfur, I like the more powerful angle if it's done right. I have to say seeing him open the doors of the Tardis with the click of his fingers was wonderous, however the scene of him being elevated by the host in the recent special made me cringe. He's on his 11th regen (we're counting the incomplete one as a regen as all the energy was used just not on him, I think as TL get to that stage they may have grown in power. Also, last of his kind so really put upon him to make the bigger choices. Its also playing with the 7th Doctor storylines, giving him a darker more powerful edge which was supposed to tie his origins to "the other" the 3rd founding father of the TL but that was cut short due to the series cancellation in the 80s.

  • July 7, 2008, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Desmondo: Quite.

    by bellwether

    This is not really the targeted demographic. For the record, I enjoyed it thoroughly: one just has to remember that it is, essentially, children's television. That's not to say it gets a free pass: there are things about it I still find really grating. But there are parts of it that are extremely good, and the final scenes of a rain-drenched doctor, alone in the TARDIS, carry a degree of cosmic sorrow unmatched in the original series. Bravo to RTD for those parts I have enjoyed, and I have high hopes that Moffat will raise the bar. Opening the TARDIS with a click of the fingers, indeed.

  • July 7, 2008, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Three things I think we can agree on after Series Four...

    by SpyGuy

    1. Bernard Cribbins rocks and is easily the best of the "Companion's Family" supporting characters. <p>2. Catherine Tate was much better as a companion than we expected her to be and Donna deserved a better fate than to devolve back to her "Runaway Bride" state. <p>3. Russell T. Davies managed to successfully introduce DOCTOR WHO to a new generation of fans, but it's time to ditch the campier elements and make darker, spookier stories the norm instead of the occasional exception.</p>

  • July 7, 2008, 8:31 a.m. CST

    3 more things

    by Lost Jarv

    1)Moffat wrote the best episodes of the series. <p>2)Series 4 was not great. <p>3)Thank fuck RTD's going. Although we are grateful for bringing it back

  • July 7, 2008, 8:33 a.m. CST


    by Lost Jarv

    It was good, better than last years and one of the best episodes of the series. <P>It would have been crap without an awesome performance from Davros and Dalek Caan. <P>Too many Deus Ex Machina, and a series of lame cop outs do not make a happy Jarv.

  • July 7, 2008, 9 a.m. CST

    And 3 more things to agree on

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    1) David Tennant staying in the role is a good thing.<p>2) If they bring back Davros then Julian Bleach should play him again.<p>3) If they bring back the Sontarans then Christopher Ryan should play one again.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:04 a.m. CST

    I agree on the Deus Ex Machina

    by Steve Rogers

    I am heartily sick of finales (be it of series or even individual episodes) that involve the Doctor flicking a lever or otherwise messing with a machine that puts everything back as it was. Often the writers get themselves into corners where a big device seems the only way out, but the whole idea has just been done to death over the last 4 series. This one was the nadir (especially with all the ridiculous technobabble). <p> Julian Bleach was amazing as Davros. Vocally he was spot on. Superb make-up job, too.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Christopher Ryan

    by Steve Rogers

    GENIUS as a Sontaran. Definitely get him back, should they return. They're clones, right? Sorted.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:39 a.m. CST

    I do agree with RTD's interview

    by INWOsuxRED

    about spoilers and how much it dulls the excitement of much of our entertainment. Most of us knew Rose was coming back for the finale, but it was a big suprise that she showed up in the first episode, and that was pretty cool. That still doesn't make up for the false regenerationg gimmick, but I hope the Moffat era works to keep things secret too.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:39 a.m. CST


    by Smashing

    Simply put the best Who ever got, the humour, the romance, the balls out story and the top notch acting, even Barrowman kept it level, what a finale.<P> I cried when they all flew the Tardis, I loved the German Daleks and I would watch a DoctorDonna spin off in a flash.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Yeah, Mike TheCoolPerson was great as General Staal

    by SpyGuy

    Certainly much more effective as a Sontaran than he was as Lord Kiv in "Mindwarp."

  • July 7, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    and 3 more-

    by Lost Jarv

    1)Tate's ending was not good. <P>2)That thing on Tate's face will return as the baddie in one of the Specials <P>3)The torchwood inclusion in the finale was completely pointless.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:48 a.m. CST

    and 3 more

    by Lost Jarv

    1)despite what Smashing says this was not the Best Who ever. <P>2)It was light years better than last year's finale<p>3)lists of 3 are fun.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:49 a.m. CST


    by Russell T Davis

    I have been away for the weekend so kept myself away from all TV/Newspapers and sat down in front of my television today to watch the recording of Saturday night's Doctor Who - I was even excited for once ...and then the programme started...recap of the previous begins to far so good..the the credits kick in..something inside me says that is credits I get the shock of my life as David Tennant's Doctor fudges his regeneration and the rest as they say was typical RTD ...major plotlines destroyed within a few sentences of utter gibberish, everyone's happy, the baddies have all been dealt with and even Donna is got rid of in a nice, happy way. Everone's happy in RTD's Dr Who alliances are formed for cross over series, Rose gets her fairy tale ending and gets her glass slipper needed,,etc..etc..etc. How can one person promise so much in the penultimate episode and deliver so little? The suprise regeneration...what an opportunity wasted (shame on you RTD ..picture the pre-credits recap of the last episode, the doctor regenerates..a new face.. kick in credits with an 'Introducing X' as part of them) For once the Daleks looked evil and menacing..and were then reduced a farcical pantomime performance. We were led to believe that a companion would die...not in RTD's happily ever after world..should have seen that coming (Remember Rose's 'This is how I died' from end of Series 2?) Imagine Donna making the ultimate sacrifice to save the Dr and destroy the Daleks -she knowing what a Universe without the Dr in it would be like from the previous episode ...hell RTD even blew that. Good points -the hinted destruction of the TARDIS, the emotional parting from Donna, the lonely Dr in the TARDIS at the end and Davros -pure evil but underused in this episode and made to look rather like the Daleks puppet as opposed to their creator. So all in all -thanks RTD for bringing Dr Who back to the screen but let's get the show moving forward with Moffatt. Oh...forgot: we have four RTD specials to endure until then...God help us all.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST

    I expressed my opinion, as you do yours.

    by Smashing

    I don't expect you to agree with me but I also don't expect you to tell me my opinion is wrong, its a bleeding opinion for fucks sake man, you are entitled think and feel as you will, as am I, I may disagree with the things you write but I never lose sight of the fact you have a right to hold them, maybe if you could learn to enjoy TV as a viewer rather that someone who seems more interested in pseudo intellectualising online you would be in a better position to judge?, either way you reveal a small and childlike mind by attacking someones physical appearance, here are another three points for ya. <P>Must<P>Try<P>Harder.

  • July 7, 2008, 9:59 a.m. CST

    about the doctor flicking switches

    by Oomlot

    um, how else would they have gotten 27 planets back to where they were? it's not like they could get out an push them. The Daleks moved them with simple pushes of buttons, so why can't they be moved back? I'm also tired of this whole thing about plot holes in the new series, there seems to be some romantic notion about Doctor Who in the old days, I think if people went back and watched them all again they'd laugh. It's time we (I mean if we are the main source of fan feedback for the BBC), let the show be what it is, which is some damn good fun, and stop caring about how the fun comes about, and how we would have done it. Oh, and Desmondo, I'm not 13 and I did think all that stuff was amazing. I guess I just let myself enjoy it instead of thinking about it.

  • July 7, 2008, 10 a.m. CST

    Russell T. Davies (not your real name, surely?)

    by Steve Rogers

    I wouldn't say Tate's ending was "happy". I thought it was pretty bloody miserable. I disagree wtih Jarv that it was "not good" - it was one of the things I liked about the episode, a much needed bit of pathos. <p> The whole Rose and Doctor 2 thing was sickening. To be honest, I felt like the Dcotor, we as an audience and the show as a whole had moved on and gotten over her character. They gave her a superb final scene in 'Doomsday' and bringing them all back (on the same bloody beach no less, just to rub in that it was a pale imitation) only cheapened it.

  • July 7, 2008, 10:10 a.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    The idea that this is a show where you simply don't think about it would work fine if there weren't so many episodes where thinking about it only makes you appreciate it more. Fortunatly most of those episodes were written by the guy who is taking over, so I have some pretty high hopes for the next series.

  • July 7, 2008, 10:10 a.m. CST


    by Sophievdp

    I agree with you. while I did find it a bit odd that Donna could just turn off the Daleks, I have no problem whatsoever with how the planets were sent back. if they had used anything more complicated people would complain about there being too much technobabble

  • July 7, 2008, 10:16 a.m. CST


    by Steve Rogers

    They didn't use anything more complicated, and there WAS too much technobabble! The scene with the two Doctors and Doctor/Donna stood around the Dalek control console can only have been designed to bamboozle people with bing long strings of mad up guff. As for pressing buttons, every now and again - fine. But it's become an over-used trope. For example had it in Partners In Crime and then again the week after in Fires of Pompeii.

  • July 7, 2008, 10:32 a.m. CST


    by superhero


  • July 7, 2008, 10:34 a.m. CST


    by Sophievdp

    I suppose that's true. it just didn't bother me that much, I still really enjoyed the episode. I dunno, I guess that's why I love the show so much, I love the big episodes that Russell does but at the same time I also really love the kind of episodes that Moffat does. I think I will miss RTD but I am really looking forward to what Moffat does with the show.

  • July 7, 2008, 10:38 a.m. CST

    for those who want darker stories....

    by emeraldboy

    There is just one problem and a solution and a further problem. Dr who would have to be moved from its current time slot. Which is tea time. Dr who is kids tv. what they could do is move it to later time. that would give it a dark edge. But it would lose its target audience. They could put it on BBC 2. in the evening time. There would be a huge outcry over that move. I dont know how more series of Torchwood there are but they could run torchwood 5 days a week(which they are going to) have dr who on saturdays. But then the haters will object to RTD dominating the schedules. SO there are no easy answers, really.

  • July 7, 2008, 10:52 a.m. CST

    okay so I saw a Dr Who on BBC USA Sunday

    by ArcadianDS

    and it was about people wearing fancy bluetooth earbugs that were sort of nefarious and it ended in a clash of robots and whatnot. I was only halfway paying attention to it, but wasn't sure if this was a rebroadcast or what. Liked it tho - they did a passable job with the show.<p> So for a guy whose last recollection of a Dr Who is a Ronald McDonald looking guy running from giant green worms and 11 foot ants on a space station, whats my move? Do I just stay away because I've been away too long? Do I just jump in now - or do I need to hit the flea markets and thrift shops for some of the old 70s/80s episodes (with Ronald McDonald) and to my best to catch up?

  • July 7, 2008, 10:57 a.m. CST

    Billie piper must be furious...

    by emeraldboy

    a great comeback promised and then she is dumped back into the aleternative universe never to be seen again. And then to be silenced by a contractual gagging order. It must have irrated her something rotten.

  • July 7, 2008, 11 a.m. CST


    by mr. flibble

    That episode was the Season 2 (of the revamp) finale, Doomsday. So the end of Tennants first series as the Doc. I'd suggest you start with Rose, Chris Ecclestons first ep and work forward. That was the start of the revamp era. Then its fun to dip back into the old stuff ;) Emerald...Darker stuff can be done in the current slot, look at Blink or the Empty child for instance. I like the Darker, but a certain frivolity is part of what Who is.,

  • July 7, 2008, 11:37 a.m. CST

    DonnaDoctor, Colin Baker, Dead Companions

    by ZeroCorpse

    First, I want to address the various names and misunderstandings we're all assigning to the blue suit Doctor. <p> If the version of Donna with the Doctor's mind mingled with hers was called "The Doctor Donna" then wouldn't it follow that the Doctor that came out of that union should be called "The Donna Doctor"? I mean, he himself said he's only "part human" and that part is DONNA, as exhibited in his behavior. Rose has hooked up with an androgynous, part-Donna version of the Doctor. The Donna Doctor. (and yes, guys, he said he's a Timelord that is "part human", which is something they can do in a regeneration (ala the 8th Doctor), with or without Donna touching them during regeneration. "Part human" is still mostly Timelord.) <p> The "one will die" prediction may still come true. You're all acting like everything Caan said HAD to be played out in this episode-- What if we see Martha or Mickey die on Torchwood, or perhaps Donna will die LATER when she remembers the Doctor and her head explodes? Maybe Rose will try to cross over again and die. Maybe Rose will get pregnant and die in childbirth, bearing a 1/4 Timelord child? Maybe Sarah Jane will choke on an olive? Maybe Caan was referring to Jack (as the Face of Boe) dying in the Doctor's presence ? We can't say that Donna's "mindwipe" was it, because we haven't seen what's to come... Only Caan knows!!! ;) <p> I actually liked Colin Baker's Doctor. I first started watching steadily just prior to the end of the 5th Doctor's time (although I had seen as far back as Pertwee before), and I loved the way they brought in the 6th-- he was poisoned, and during his regeneration he said, "It's different this time..." before regenerating into the pompous, dark, mean-spirited, bellicose, rude, arrogant Doctor. Colin was supposed to wear a costume that was ALL BLACK, but that was changed (and later regretted) by the powers-that-be. He was to be the darker side of the Doctor. His first words to Peri were an insult! I loved it, because the idea of the Doctor's regenerations being different personalities made it seem more like death. More real. More permanent. More serious. It was also a good source of comic relief, watching The Doctor shout at Peri all the time and insulting her human heritage. You KNEW that dark side had to be in there, somewhere. A person can't live 900 years and not pick up some negative traits. <p> History has proven that Colin Baker's Doctor was one of the more complex, varied characterizations. If only they had allowed him to wear that black costume. . . <p> Of course, Adric's death was shocking, but hey-- He did at least help kill the dinosaurs. Other companions went out without as much shock value. <p> Poor Kameleon. Destroyed because it was easily used by the Master. <p> Poor K9. Blowed up real good. <p> Poor Jack. Becomes millions of years old and dies as a giant face laying amid the ruins of his head-tank, attended by a cat-nurse and the Doctor. <p> Poor Romana. Died off-screen in the Time-War (logically so, anyway, if the Doctor is truly the Last Timelord). <p> Poor Ace. Probably also died in the Time-War if the projected character arc in which she is enrolled in the Academy on Gallifrey actually happened. And what of the ones who were just abandoned, or dropped off at home to grow old and die? What about the ones who ran off with other space explorers and aliens? Mel, running off with Sabalom Glitz of all people! I would think he probably sold her into slavery somewhere after a few weeks of her company! And Peri, stuck as a consort to a loud warrior-king on an alien world! <p> It seems to me that the Doctor's current companions do well, considering their predecessors' fates! Rose has hooked-up with The DonnaDoctor and will probably live happily ever after. Donna's no worse for wear, and won't even have to feel like she's missing something. Mickey, Jack, and Martha are all BETTER for having known the Doctor, and will continue to have adventures in Torchwood. Sarah Jane has a son, a robot dog, a mega-computer, a sonic screwdriver, and a good life. <p> . . .But that doesn't mean death isn't lurking around the corner for one of them.

  • July 7, 2008, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Wow, you become more of a twat every week.

    by Lost Jarv

    You got all that out of a 1 line glib remark- that despite what you think etc. You must really hate me. Of course you can have an opinion. It doesn't mean it's correct. And when precisely have I ever attempted to curtail your right to express your opinions? If you think a smart-arsed one liner in an obviously jokey post= censorship then you're an even sadder case than I thought.<p>I will give you this though. The growth on her face thing was a childish joke. Mea Culpa. <P>Do you honestly think that mess was better than, say, Doomsday?- or Blink? or Human Nature, and so on. It wasn't the worst. In fact it wasn't anywhere near the worst. But it was not the best episode ever.

  • July 7, 2008, 11:46 a.m. CST


    by ByTor

    "History has proven that Colin Baker's Doctor was one of the more complex, varied characterizations." <P> I don't even know where to begin telling you what is wrong with that sentence.

  • July 7, 2008, 11:47 a.m. CST

    and as for your patronising "Must Try Harder"

    by Lost Jarv

    HAHAHAHAHAHA. <P>Funny. Why don't you try less hard at being uptight, and maybe you won't be offended at absolutely everything, and won't think every remark is an attempt to persecute you.

  • July 7, 2008, 12:07 p.m. CST

    It is varied. It is complex.

    by ZeroCorpse

    Refute it. Go ahead! <p> Prior Doctors had been playing the same basic characterization since Troughton's era, with minor differences. He was always the lovable spaceman who saw all sorts of good things about humans. Despite being smarter than everyone, he was still somewhat humble. He was generally nonviolent. His bloodlust was nonexistent. <p> Then along comes the Sixth. He expresses the things he DOESN'T like about humans- Frequently. He is arrogant about his intellect. He is a bit more bloodthirsty than other regenerations and stands there, smug-as-you-please, while he lets enemies die. The Doctor only has snide comments for the Borad before he dies. He spends his entire Trial spitting rude comments at the Valeyard. He's not sorry, doesn't regret his enemies' deaths, and in some cases was the instrument of their demise. <p> This is not your father's Doctor. <p> So YES, he's varied. He's not like the others at all. YES, he's complex. He's not just a regeneration, but a DAMAGED regeneration, and he plays it to the hilt. <p> Did he have some crappy scripts? Oh to be sure! Did he have an awful costume? You bet! Did he get some bad lines and an unfair shake from the BBC? You betcha. But he was a change, at least. He was something more than the happy spaceman. He was a troubled, angry, old soul who lashed out at others. <p> There were bits of Troughton in there. Bits of Tom Baker. Bits of Pertwee. It was like the real Doctor was "in there somewhere" but he was being dominated by this poisonous personality in the forefront. <p> He was always meant to be a dark chapter in the Doctor's lifespan. Even though he mellowed a LITTLE as he progressed, in the end the Sixth Doctor died as a fairly negative being, and the Seventh even showed some of that darkness. As did the Ninth. And the Tenth. <p> The dark undercurrents you hear about now wouldn't be there if the Sixth hadn't opened the doorway to understanding that The Doctor is not all Sweetness and Light. He's a complex being, and he has a dark side. Up until Colin Baker's portrayal, we never really saw an inkling of that darkness. <p> If that's not complexity, and variation from the previous incarnations, then I guess I took the wrong theatre classes in college.

  • July 7, 2008, 12:44 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    Perhaps you did take the wrong courses. <P> The Sixth Doctor wasn't "dark" in the sense that, say, McCoy's was. The Sixth Doctor was just a dick. Making snide (and crap) jokes when talking to the Valeyard != characterization. He wasn't bloodthirsty; he was just obnoxious. You see complexity but I see oversimplification: "Oooh, we want to make him *different* and *alien* so let's make him an asshole." <P> The "darkness" in Eccleston's Doctor was more of what you're looking for, I expect: it was less superficial and more complex.

  • July 7, 2008, 1:03 p.m. CST

    I didnt see Empty child..

    by emeraldboy

    But I saw the trailer for it. Jesus, the dead children with gas masks was the most disturbing thing I have seen in years and I could be wrong but there was a scene where it is utterly dark(again in the trailer) and all you can hear is the tapping of the door knob. I have not seen all the episodes. because dr who clashed with me going out. and it was over by the time I get back to the house and Tv3 always stuck on at a ridiculous time. midnight. or half past midnight. bastards.

  • July 7, 2008, 1:07 p.m. CST

    TV3 in ireland

    by emeraldboy

    bought dr who off of the BBC. and Showed it at midight. or 1230 am.

  • July 7, 2008, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Colin Baker's Doctor

    by fiester

    I really liked his take on The Doctor too. It was a lot more interesting than some of the regenerations surrounding him. Never a McCoy fan or the celery wearer. Baker was more like Patrick McGoughen's No 6 in The Prisoner. Arrogant in his abilities. I liked it.

  • July 7, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Colin Baker was like McGoohan's Prisoner??

    by ByTor

    Wow.<P> I don't remember McGoohan yelling at everyone, or bombastically shouting every time he entered a room, or calling a close friend fat, or...look, I can see that maybe McGoohan's Prisonter was what they were trying for, but in typical JNT/Saward fashion, they missed. Badly.

  • July 7, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Some interesting opinions worth disputing...

    by dj_bollocks

    Are you saying that Tom Baker's doctor wasn't dark ? That he played the lovable spaceman ? Eh ? The Deadly Assasin ? Which leads me on to my next point - in my opinion Doctor Who is a family show - not a kids show. It's a unique show where the whole family gets something from it. It's not a kids show, and it's not The Wire - but the writing in the finale was so schizophrenic it lost track as to who it was trying to target... As I said in my review if you're happy to accept that you'll no doubt love the Sarah Jane adventures which is definitely aimed at kids - if you're an adult you'll love... actually there's really no recommending Torchwood.

  • July 7, 2008, 2:32 p.m. CST

    That you disliked him so much..

    by ZeroCorpse

    That you disliked the Sixth Doctor so much shows just how varied and complex he was. They took a character that most people loved unconditionally, and gave him a negative side that turned a lot of people off. He was an asshole by design. He was the First Doctor, multiplied by a factor of ten, and then made to be completely intolerant of stupid people. He was unstable, but he was *meant* to be unstable. <p> Yes, McCoy's was "darker" in the mysterious sense, but Colin's was darker in the "whose side is he on?" sense. He came off like an arrogant alien jerk, and yet he saved the day. Why did he save the day if he's such a jerk? Answer: To prove he was better than everyone else, including his previous regenerations. His ego knew no bounds. <p> The fact that he performed this unlikable character so well that you seem to utterly hate him is a testament to Colin Baker's ability. He did play the Sixth Doctor later as a nicer, kinder, more traditional Doctor and won the "best Doctor" award for radio programmes. How is it the same guy who was so hatable at one point could become the most beloved Doctor on the radio? Acting talent. Colin Baker can play the asshole Sixth Doctor, or he can play the lovable Sixth Doctor who acts like the Fifth Doctor. <p> Honestly, I never got why everybody was so in love with Tom Baker's Doctor. He was so weird and nonsensical. He was erratic. He was frustratingly distracted. In later years he seemed utterly bored with the character. <p> My favorites are the Tenth and the Seventh. I always liked McCoy's take on the Doctor, and lament the fact that he was given so short a run, and cancelled before the strands of his story could pay off-- They were building up to something, and then just stopped. <p> And of course, David is just awesome. I'll miss him when he goes, because he's the most fun I've had with the Doctor in a very long time. <p> The Ninth Doctor was OK, but he was quite the brooding figure. Not as fun.

  • July 7, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    The Ninth Doctor is what the Sixth Doctor could have been...

    by SpyGuy

    ...given more thought and more talented writers. I mean, Eccleston's shouty, booming-voiced Doctor referring to humans as "stupid apes" and calling Mickey "Ricky the Idiot" isn't all that far removed from Colin Baker's Doctor. <p>The difference, of course, is that the Ninth Doctor was written with a more sympathetic undertone because of the Time War, which justified some of his more arrogant moments. Thankfully, Colin Baker went on to record the Big Finish audio adventures, which have gone a long way to redeeming his Doctor as a character and made him more appealing.</p>

  • July 7, 2008, 2:47 p.m. CST

    RTD tying up the loose ends

    by fiester

    Watch the finale. Seems like The Doctor is back to square one, pretty much as we saw him at the beginning of the revamped series. I guess I'm okay with that. Seems like a courtesy to Moffett. At least RTD is leaving the franchise the way he found it, even if the second part of finale was lackluster and did not payoff the build-up. <p> And, yes, Colin Baker was like McGoohan's Prisoner in that both were supremely arrogant and not entirely likable. That's all I'm saying.

  • July 7, 2008, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Zero Corpse

    by shellfishh

    I won't tell you that your opinion is wrong, but I am going to disagree with you. <br><br> I think you are giving them credit for what they were TRYING to do as opposed to what they actually accomplished.<br><br> Eccleston's doctor is what they were aiming for. What they wound up with was a Doctor that was a dick.<br><br> Now, imagine Rowan Atkinson, in full BlackAdder mode, as the Doctor. A condescending, funny Doctor with WIT. That would have been worth watching.

  • July 7, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    And unfortunately, no mater what the intent, if you aim to have a Doctor that is an arrogant prick and you wind up with a Doctor that is an arrogant prick. It wasn't pleasant to watch.

  • July 7, 2008, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Isn't Romana Still in N-Space?

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    ...At least that is what I choose to believe! :)

  • July 7, 2008, 3:09 p.m. CST

    if you're talking wit...

    by mr. flibble

    ...then Stephen Fry would be perfect, however as mentioned above, he wouldn't quite pull off the running. I know the early Docs weren't so physical (until Pertwee really) but it kinda goes with it now. running/climbing etc. I'd be intruiged to see what Richard Coyle would do with it (links with Moffat from Coupling). Think they'll stay young though, shame as I think Anthony Head or Hugh Laurie (unlikely) would be great. I rewatched the Christmas Invasion the other day and really had forgotten how easily Tennant slipped into the role. Its a difficult one to top.

  • July 7, 2008, 3:21 p.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    Stephen Fry in Gen Melchott (Sp?) mode as the Doctor with Hugh Laurie as his dimwitted companion.

  • July 7, 2008, 3:27 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    "That you disliked the Sixth Doctor so much shows just how varied and complex he was." Or, maybe I disliked the Sixth Doctor because he was bloody awful. Your reasoning makes no sense. <P> Note that I am not dissing Colin Baker. He was terrific in the Stranger videos, he was very good in Zero Imperative, etc. I am dissing JNT and Saward for botching the whole thing. As shellfishh mentions above, the Ninth Doctor is an example of a more arrogant, abrasive Doctor that nonetheless isn't a penis. <P> I also don't like the Seventh Doctor, but that was MUCH more about the actor, since it's clear that Sylvester McCoy can't deliver a single line without going massively over the top. (Watch him in Zero Imperative compared to Colin -- Colin acts rings around him.) I wasn't a huge fan of the Doctor as a manipulator that could wipe out the Daleks, Cybermen, etc. the way he did, and I wasn't a fan of the so-called Cartmel Masterplan, but I can respect them for at least trying to break new ground with a bit more sophistication than making the main hero an asshole.

  • July 7, 2008, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Bring back Romana!

    by Uncapie

    She was a great companion! Cute too!

  • July 7, 2008, 3:28 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    Well Stephen Fry would be brilliant because he's brilliant in everything, but I suspect we've seen the last of the older Doctors. And it goes without saying that there's no way in hell they'd ever get Hugh Laurie now...

  • July 7, 2008, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Colin Baker...

    by lynxpro

    I'm not the greatest fan of the 6th Doctor stories, but I must say Colin Baker in person circa 1986 was frikkin awesome. He had zest and could work a crowd. It's a shame what the BBC did to him back then. Had he not had that ridiculous costume, things probably would have played differently.

  • July 7, 2008, 3:34 p.m. CST

    lynxpro: partially

    by ByTor

    He was (and presumably is) a terrific guy in person. I had drinks with him once and he was warm, funny, approachable, etc. <P> But I think it wasn't just the costume...I think the whole approach from the scriptwriters, etc., was all wrong.

  • July 7, 2008, 3:54 p.m. CST


    by mr. flibble

    I'd never rule it out. He has a big journey to make for House and spends months away from his family. Anthony Head did the same thing for Buffy and he cited it as the reason for leaving his full time role at the end of S5. Laurie has expressed similar concerns. Few years as House viewers start to dwindle who reality though he's probably a bit too established in his own right in the UK to really make it work. And yes, Doctor Melchett would be amusing....."Get in the TARDIS Darling...Baaaaaaaa!"

  • July 7, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    There is one poin the I would like to make and its this....

    by emeraldboy

    you all have to remember who was running bbc at that time. Lord Grade. Grade pretty much mirrored the bbc thinking. They didnt understand Dr Who and Ran a campaign to get rid of it. It was only kept on the air by the fans. Who used the red tops very effectively in thier war to keep dr who on the air. Even the late verity lambert had the same problem. Sidney Newman created dr who. but verity lambert, who had a hypothetical rod of steel down her back and volanic temperment to match fought to keep it on air. When she left the bbc in the mid 1980's. Dr who was left in limbo and nobody knew what to do with it. it was still on air. But the cast were at all times left in the dark, they didnt know what was happening. Dr who would shoot and nobody would if it was the last series. Then grade came on board. He always hated dr who. None of the cast were told that dr who had been cancelled directly. Slyvester McCoy said that he read about it in the paper or some such. It was really shitty way to treat a group of people. So the BBC didnt really know what to do with dr who at the end of the day. So at least, I hope if they do end it. They do it right. and never again keep the public or their actors hanging in the wind. shame on them.

  • July 7, 2008, 4 p.m. CST

    Speaking of BUffy....

    by emeraldboy

    Sarah Michelle Geller says that there is a very strong possibility now of a Buffy film in the pipeline. WB has shot down any and all rumours of a friends film. if there is a Buffy film. as loathsome as Sex and the city is we know who to thank when buff and the scooby gang starts kicking some vampire ass.

  • July 7, 2008, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Mr. Flibble

    by ByTor

    While I take your point with the parallel to Anthony Head, there's a big difference between being a supporting character on a struggling show on the WB and the star of the biggest drama on Fox. Laurie is no doubt raking in gobs of cash, and while I could see him stepping down due to travel concerns, etc., it's hard to imagine him then taking the massive pay cut to do Who.<P>And does anybody know what emeraldboy is on about now?

  • July 7, 2008, 4:17 p.m. CST


    by mr. flibble

    I'll give you that mate, but few years time and it could all change. And don't rule out the fact that he's a Brit, can u imagine anything cooler than being offered the role of the Doctor? I'd do it for free. I think House is entertaining enough but can't see why it gets the rating it does, esp the last season. Not overly taxing and entertainingly formulaic I suppose. As to SMG and Buffy movie, it wouldn't surprise me if she went for that...the girl had potential but seems to have wasted it on Scooby Doo, remakes of Asian Extreme movies and that daft talentless titwitch Freddie Prinze Jr.

  • July 7, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Sixth Penis, I mean Doctor

    by Steve Rogers

    "the Ninth Doctor is an example of a more arrogant, abrasive Doctor that nonetheless isn't a penis" <p> Hahahaha. I have to agree with ByTor on this one. It most probably was the entire fault of the writers and production team, but the Sixth Doctor comes off as a steaming great cock, regardless of who is to blame.

  • July 7, 2008, 4:49 p.m. CST


    by Blackguard

    I been waiting for a massive crossover and boy did they deliver. I only hope they can bring the Doctor onto the other shows for a few episodes to hold me over until 2010. It's going to be a loooong wait. <p> Some questions though: <p> Is the Doctor's daughter Jenny half human? They did have to combine the Doctor's DNA with SOMETHING. Or was she a clone? I was really hoping she would show up as well in the end. <p> When the Doctor regenerates, does everyone still know who he is? Do old photos of him change? I remember in an Eccleson episode some guy had all his newspaper clippings from the past. If the Tennant Doctor has a "flashback" episode will he see himself as a former Doctor? <p> Wouldn't parallel universes have parallel Doctors????

  • July 7, 2008, 5:07 p.m. CST


    by Steve Rogers

    Old photos of the Doctor do not change, no. Companions from the past and this series definitely remember the different versions of the Doctor they have met. That said, they tend not to flashback to a previous Doctor within the tenure of the current one; for example when Tennant flashbacked to his time with Rose during 'The Runaway Bride', they were all scenes from season 2, the series with him and Billie Piper in. No stuff from the Eccleston era. I think they want to avoid confusing the shit out of new viewers and detracting from the current man in the TARDIS,

  • July 7, 2008, 5:15 p.m. CST

    Parallel Universes/Doctors

    by ByTor

    Blackguard: so far we've never seen Time Lords from another dimension. Mind you, we haven't seen parallel universes often -- in fact, off the top of my head I can only remember Inferno as another example besides the "Rose" parallel universe. But even so, the impression I get is that there's only one set of Time Lords.

  • July 7, 2008, 5:34 p.m. CST


    by Blackguard

    I'm fairly new to Doctor Who aside from some episodes I saw as a kid on PBS with my Dad. I have been following the new series and all its spinoffs. Thanks for the info! <p> In a recent episode the Doctor flashed back to a scene where he was holding a bow walking through the forest and he made it sound like a long time ago but he was still in Tennant form (and alone). Maybe that's a "future" adventure? Time travel sure gets complicated.

  • July 7, 2008, 5:46 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    Yeah, clearly we haven't seen all of the adventures. Not sure about the scene you're referring to, but at the end of Blink we do see the Doctor and Martha holding a bow and going off to deal with something. As the Doctor points out, he leads a complicated life.

  • July 7, 2008, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Bow and arrow flashback

    by Steve Rogers

    Was in the Agatha Christie episode, The Unicorn & The Wasp. Everyone was having classic 'whodunnit' style flashbacks and the Doctor had one about being in Belgium trying to rescue Charlemagne from "an insane computer". It was played more for laughs than anything, like most of that episode. <p> If you look on the BBC Doctor Who site they actually have a story up for this flashback, in prose form. Donna is the companion in it, so it can't have been too far in the past (assuming it's part of continuity, which such stories often aren't).

  • July 7, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Oh, thank god RTD is gone

    by omarthesnake

    Now the BBC can hire you fucking sour load of shitstains, because really, it's your brilliant mind that holds the only REAL version of what Doctor Who should be. Heaven forbid anyone do a story not the way you would in your goddamned fanfic. What a sour, sad little batch of haters you are. Enjoy the show for what it is or move on to another show. Me, I enjoyed it. The nitpicking whining BS here is what drives me nuts about 'fans' who are actually control freaks with no control over anything, which drives them nuts. Which is kinda funny, really. Good work RTD. you didn't do everything perfectly, but who could? (that messianic finale from series three WAS a little overthetop, admit it). You did, however, give us a very entertaining series that has taken Doctor Who from back-row-of-the-convention obscurity to a phenomenon. Yay.

  • July 7, 2008, 7:19 p.m. CST


    by Oomlot

    Imagine if you will, that the daleks are basically radio controlled mollusks. They have battery power needs, and since they are fairly complex computers, they are probably easy to corrupt (assuming you're in their network). I can't imagine any computer network that wouldn't be seriously damaged by any hacker who was sitting at the main terminal hub, let alone someone with genius and imagination. I actually enjoy the technobabble, when it's delivered by Tennant it has this enthusiasm that makes it convincing. Tate did a fantastic job mimicking his style, I think. To be fair they never mentioned what the terminal was doing there, but if I had a control hub that could damage, corrupt or even destroy me, I'd want to keep it in the deepest, dankest part of my space station too. They probably put Davros in there afterwards, and fell victim to that overconfidence he accused them of having. Plus, of course, their guiding light was manipulating them into being destroyed all along.

  • July 7, 2008, 11:32 p.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    How do you write off the near universal praise for the Moffat episodes? Even people who don't know the writers of Who constantly come in here and list his episodes as their favorites. Does he have some sort of power to read the minds of all "control freaks" and appeal to all of them simultaneously? If the fans here constantly hated everything, you might have a point, but it seems to show that most of us are judging individual episodes on their merit. Even the harshest critics here have also praised RTD for bringing back the show and some of the elements he added, even if they have been harsh on individual episodes he has done. If you look at the negative reviews of this episode, one of the things that has been repeated often is that this episode was a disappointment in part because the first part showed so much promise.

  • July 7, 2008, 11:45 p.m. CST

    RE: everybody in love with Baker's Dr. ?

    by Bill Clay

    It's the old adage "Your favorite Doctor is the first one you saw." Big Tom was THE Doctor when PBS first began broadcasting Dr. Who in the US in the 70's. We raced home from school every day to see Tom's newest episode. Thank God there was a backlog of available episodes! PBS gave us Dr. Who FIVE DAYS A WEEK! Can you imagine what an impression Tom Baker made on us seeing him as The Doctor Monday through Friday every week? He's OUR Doctor.

  • July 8, 2008, 3:35 a.m. CST

    Agree entirely with INWOsuxRED

    by Steve Rogers

    People on here don't bash RTD all the time - certainly I do not and the majority of the people who join in these talkbacks who I consider to have the capacity for rational thought - but they do judge each episode on merit. I tell you now, no one on here is unaware of the debt they owe him for bringing the series back. <p> I agrtee criticism of him can sometimes be harsh, but personally I have loved a great deal of his episodes; the recent Midnight was absolutely superb (as was Gridlock, Smith & Jones, etc). If I was going to pick nits I would say that his conlduing chapters, in two-parters, never quite deliver the pay off you want (Doomsday being the notable exception and Last Of The Time Lords and Journey's End the epitomes). The urge to cram in everything and the kitchen sink is what sunk this week's episode.

  • July 8, 2008, 4:27 a.m. CST

    doctors daughter

    by Steve T

    I believe the scene keeping her alive was an add on at Moffat's request, so I wasn't expecting her to turn up. She'll be back tho. explains why that scene felt like such an awkward add on!

  • July 8, 2008, 4:55 a.m. CST

    Moffat and the Doctor's Daughter

    by Steve Rogers

    I read an interview with him the other week where he was saying that he only mentioned in passing in an email that he didn't think she should die; it wasn't an edict as incoming showrunner. Apparently he was surprised to read an interview with RTD saying that it was all his idea, as he'd forgotten saying it! <p> I agree though, she'll likely be back. Sadly. Thought that was one of the weaker episodes of the series.

  • July 8, 2008, 5:36 a.m. CST

    Ok well here goes...

    by SKULL1138

    Typical RTD ending, a great set up as usual and then everything just sort of falls into place, the guy just cant write a good sci fi finale. <P> The whole nation was wondering about the regeneration, and within 10 seconds we were not worried anymore, that was done shittly. <P> although I am happy DT remains as the Doc thats goes without saying <P> Liked the Donna arc, that was good, and hre being a TL in part was quite fun, but did not get need to have anopther Doctor as well, surely Dona beibng half and half would ahve been enough AND... if Donna cannot handle all the knowledge of a timelord because she is half human, whats gonna happen to the guy with Rose, he was the same, the plot point was just there to give Rose someone to go home with, not good story telling. They should have killed Rose off. <P> Oh and why the Doc so pissed at human self for wiping out Daleks, in previous episodes he has done same himself, think of how Ecclestones Doc would ahev recated to that, he would ahve been whooping, and he was not too bothered when Rose wiped them all out in series 1? This is my point, bad writing. <P> All of those characters basically doing nothing, SJ, Cpn Jack, Martha, Jackie, Mickey, Ianto, Gwen etc all do fucking nothing except stand there fucking up, totally pointless to ahve them there, all they needed was Rose, Donna and the Doctor for this story to be exactly the same. <P> Saying all this, I did like Davros and Dalek Caan. <P> I enjoyed the Donna Arc and her performance, and I thought here endingw as ok, showing what she was like before, but I would still ahve preferred that her brain melted and she dies in the Doctors arms, making him once again alone. <P> Ok idea for an ending, all it needed was a decent script writer to give it the once over and tell RTD where he could improve things a bit and make the plot ends tie up a little neater. <P> Why do they always have to completely destroy the Daleks every time...Now Moffat has to invent a way to bring them back again, and is thats Davros completetly dead again, whata way to kill off an iconic bad guy...why? <P> It felt more fo a fuck you Moffat, lets see how you pull this one back, oh and you cant use any of my supporting characters again either. <P> Why not have Davros and some of the Daleks escape in time at the end, so they can appear again at some other point, without a , "I went back to the point you left and rescued Davros so he could create more Daleks" again.. <P> Why wont someone kill Torchwood, I hoped Gwen and Iainto would get it sore in this episode and Jack would be thrown into the z neutron thingy majig, so he could properly die. Oh well, I take it RTD will continue to run this series. that should kill it off. <P> In short I enjoyed it, but I always think his finales could be so much better, if he had more skill as a writer, too many dodgy plot points and convenient occurences...What was all the mumbo jumbo Donna was coming out with, that was pure Star Trek " Lets make something so complex the viewer has no idea what it is and use this to stop the bad guys", because you cant be bothered to actually think of something dramatic to do. <P> Good bye RTD, and good riddance, I hope MOffat does a better job of having series long arcs. <P> I will miss Donna though

  • July 8, 2008, 6:32 a.m. CST

    regarding rose tyler...

    by emeraldboy

    I was waiting for a dalek to appear and blast her before she used that stupid gun. that would have shocked the dr.

  • July 8, 2008, 6:52 a.m. CST

    Regarding torchwood....

    by emeraldboy

    When dr who was axed by lord grade there didnt seem to any future for Dr who. Russell T davis, changed all that. very smart move to spin off dr who. This is all about merchandising. and the bbc has made a killing out such things like toys , action figures and dvds. You dont cross Russell T davis. the man is one of the formidable men in tv. He brought back dr who and under his tenure, it has won countless awards. There may have been massive rows behind the scenes and those could have what the red top stories were all about. especially RTD future and so forth. He may have gone to war over Martha Jones and told the bbc where to go.

  • July 8, 2008, 7:03 a.m. CST


    by Steve T

    I don't think it was a fuck you. Moffat is one of the people who was worked with daviesont his series. i think he was jsut tying up loose ends, a clean slate is what is best for Moffat. regarding the Doctor being against killing all the Daleks, his previous incarnations had different personalities and views, that's the way of regeneration. tom Baker's Doctor struggled witht he concept of killing them all, while Sylvester McCoy tried it and Eccleston would have done it. They'll be back one day, they are never gone for ever.

  • July 8, 2008, 7:53 a.m. CST

    Colin Baker

    by Shan

    Colin Baker was really keen to do the role, he originally said he was going to try and be in it longer than Tom Baker. <p> However, things got off to a bad start with that truly wretched costume. Also, as said above, he did suffer from some truly wretched writing. To cap it off, he was blamed as being the cause of the plummeting viewing figures and fired. Understandably, he refused to film a regeneration sequence (that's McCoy in his costume). Especially regarding the quality of the writing that was to come, Peter Davison timed his exit perfectly. Can't ask for much more than Caves of Androzani to exit the series on. <p> However, Colin Baker has gone on to be the most popular of the audio Doctors (or at least very popular so I hear) and his particular take on the Doctor was definitely something different and one I appreciate much more than I did at the time. <p> To see something that the 6th Doctor should have been more like, check out some videos Colin Baker did with Nicola Bryant (who played Peri on the show) called "The Stranger". They were on youtube last time I looked. For starters, the costume isn't ridiculously distracting.

  • July 8, 2008, 8:27 a.m. CST


    by ByTor

    "I can't imagine any computer network that wouldn't be seriously damaged by any hacker who was sitting at the main terminal hub" <P> You should endeavor to learn more about a topic before using it in an analogy. Aside from the fact that networks generally don't have "main terminal hubs," even if they did, pushing a few switches wouldn't cause the entire network to self-destruct. Now consider that the Daleks were designed by a genius...who builds a race of superior beings that are networked (yet still need to communicate with each other vocally) and have so little defense that a simple command causes them to feed back and blow up? It's just not plausible. <P> If you enjoyed the episode anyway, well, that's fine -- but IMO RTD did what he's done with every season finale: write himself into a corner and then technobabble/reset button/deus ex machina his way out of it.

  • July 8, 2008, 9:31 a.m. CST

    Dont wait for it DONLOAD it now?

    by Frontman242

    I have been downloading the Doctor for 4 seasons, way before it airs here in the US., US FANS my get to many spoilers before they see it. this last one is the best ever.. and no Christmas show preview this time....

  • July 8, 2008, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Unproven Moff merchant

    by in6087

    In my opinion Moffat remains unproven as a strategic long term thinker and planner in his writing, and is unproven in dealing with emotion and generating excitement over the course of a series. His individual episodes and 2 parters have been superb so far, but we have no grounds for believing he can create series finales as satisfying as RTD's ones. I seem to remember that Hyde got a luke-warm response from everybody... Yes, Blink was brilliant, but that wasn't about the Doctor... The family of blood episodes were written by somebody else, as was Dalek . The library episodes were great, but inferior to the Series 3 finale. I think people need to have a reality check when it comes to Moffat and lower their expectations or they're gonna go ape shit when Doctor Who returns in 2010... I think Doctor Who series 3 has been the best finale so far, followed by Series 2, then this latest one.

  • July 8, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    the Series 3 finale was the one with the Master and it was not very good. I tend to think you're insane if you'd rate that over the Library episodes.

  • July 8, 2008, 9:49 a.m. CST


    by ByTor

    If you think that Series 3's finale was the pinnacle, then I can't help you. IMO it was the worst -- as much as I loved the set-up with the Master, Series 3's ending was atrocious. Put aside the house-elf Doctor for a moment...the sheer silliness of Martha wandering the Earth and getting *everyone* to think the same thing at the same time. Everyone? Really? Even the racists? Oh and then there was the fabulous reset button...magically everything was back to normal. Nothing in the episode has any lasting impact, which means none of the trials or sacrifices had any meaning. <P> It was a shameless cop-out, and the worst finale of the new series so far.

  • July 8, 2008, 10:28 a.m. CST

    "[RTD] may have gone to war over Martha Jones..."

    by Steve Rogers

    ...and told the bbc where to go". <p> Were there rows over Martha Jones? Not heard this before. Seriously, what would RTD need to "go to war" over her for?

  • July 8, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Best series finale is Doomsday

    by Steve Rogers

    for me, anyway. Really great, emotional ending. Series 1 was good, too. <p> I personally preffered last season's climax to this one (even though it totally dropped the ball after a great opening part, Utopia) purely because of the Tennant/Simm "Just regenerate. Regenerate!" scene. The season 4 finale was just fan-wank and the whole Doctor/Rose angle made me want to barf. <p> That said, I think 3 and 4 both have huge problems in their conclusions and both suffer from being all set-up and poor resolution.

  • July 8, 2008, 10:45 a.m. CST

    the problem with the series 3 finale...

    by mr. flibble

    ....was that was were setup to have the Doctor versus his biggest nemesis, his equal in both ability and interlect brought to us on the bigger scale of the revamped series...only to end up watching Martha walking about setting things up while the Doctor waiting in a cage. The episode should have been the Doctor combatting the Master, their wits against each other, instead that was driven to the sidelines. It undermined everything we know about their relationship and cheapened bringing the Master back. It wasn't entirely awful, infact on repeat viewing its rather entertaining, the problem is it could and should have beeen so much more...

  • July 8, 2008, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Flibble - I agree

    by Steve Rogers

    That's very true, I would've liked to see much more Tennant/Simm showdown material. Myabe that's why I like the death scene so much, it hints at the deeper relationship which the rest of the story pretty much ignored. <p> If you think about it, this series did the same with Davros. The Doctor spent the episode trapped under a spotlight whilst everyone else ran around trying to solve the problem.

  • July 8, 2008, 10:50 a.m. CST

    What was Dr 2 supposed to do?

    by sean bean

    Dr 1 castigated him for killing all the Daleks, but, as was pointed out, even with the reality bomb thing destroyed, a million Daleks would still be capable of subjugating the earth. What was the first Doctor's plan going to be with all of them flying around? Also, Skull, there are plenty of ways to bring back the Daleks - there are the ones still in the void for starters, plus we never saw Davros or Dalek Caan die on screen. Also, there's was the revelation that the Time War can still be entered (albeit at a price).

  • July 8, 2008, 10:52 a.m. CST

    As to tying a series together

    by INWOsuxRED

    I'd rather have close to 14 good episodes that end with a good stand alone episode than an up and down series that ends in a dissapointment.

  • July 8, 2008, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Steve Rogers

    by ByTor

    First, don't even bother to respond to emeraldboy. He comes in and spouts random gibberish on a periodic basis. I suspect he's really some kind of script. <P> I agree that of the four, Season 2 had the best ending. It had issues -- specifically, the resolution was kind of silly. I mean, the force is strong enough to suck in Cybermen and Daleks *from around the globe* yet the Doctor and Rose can just hang on to a couple of handles and be OK? <P> But the emotional aspect was handled so well that it was easier to overlook. What RTD does very well is character and relationships, and the Doctor/Rose thing was handled beautifully. (In fact, that's another strike on the S4 finale: it really undercut the S2 finale.) <P> Unfortunately, even with the strength of the Doctor/Master ending, it wasn't enough IMO to save the S3 finale...and of course, S4 has no such emotional blockbuster. (The Doctor/Donna split was pretty good, and the Bernard Cribbins farewell to the Doctor was even better, but it wasn't enough to undo the fanwank.)

  • July 8, 2008, 11:40 a.m. CST

    There were rumours....

    by emeraldboy

    swirling around around at the time that the BBC wanted to drop Freema Ageyman from dr who. She denied that this was the case. The Rumours were that the BBC were worried that Freema was killing the show every time she was on screen. The BBC denied a rumour that Billie piper was also leaving and that did turn out to be true however, she did comeback but was banished to the alternative universe as we all know. Freema though great looking is a very dull actor. and you can see why the beeb were worried that she might harm the viewing figures. there were also rumours abounding that russell t was planning the leave the show before he did. not true. Even though the viewing fiures were very good, he leaves behind a show which he purposely screwed up. in other words there is no love lost between him and the beeb. at least that is what i am interpreting.

  • July 8, 2008, 11:41 a.m. CST

    The Problem with The end of series 3...

    by Lost Jarv

    Was about 10 problems. Even if you get over the absolute lameness of Dr Dobby, and manage to somehow suppress vomiting at Dr. Yoda/ Dr. Jesus, you've still got the fact that Martha made everyone "think" and the utter cheesiness of this. Then you've got reset buttons, a rubbish end, and so forth. <P>It not only was the worst finale, but also one of the worst episodes. And I'm one of the few that liked The Sound of Drums

  • July 8, 2008, 12:23 p.m. CST


    by sambrook

    The BBC has first refusal on RTD's two new series. If they hated each other that wouldn't be the case. Stop looking for scandal and backstage gossip where there isn't any. Besides, Season 3 finished filming before it was broadcast so the BBC's alledged fears that the show was losing viewers everytime Martha was onscreen is absurd as there had been no viewer feedback. Her plot resolution had already been written and filmed.

  • July 8, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST


    by omarthesnake

    I'm not writing off anything (more on that later), but I am saying that RTD's greatest transgressions in this talkbacks always seem to be that he didn't do what they woulda done if they had been given the reins of the show. The hell with that. And no, you're wrong about "The harshest critics" praising RTD... there are plenty of posts that are NOTHING but venom and bile and, quite often, homophobic prattling. As for Moffat, yes, he is the best writer the show has (Cornell being second) and I look forward to what he does. But I guarantee you, the haters will start nitpicking everything he does once he's the one in charge and they don't have RTD to hate on any more. What I don't get here is why people who hated RTD's Regime so much kept upsetting themselves by watching. When I started to dislike Star Trek Voyager, i stopped watching Star Trek Voyager. much healthier for the nerves, that way. I don't see the disappointment. Thoroughly enjoyed part 2. Good work RTD. Good work, rest of the staff.

  • July 8, 2008, 3:54 p.m. CST

    at the moment Moffat can do no wrong....

    by emeraldboy

    it seems to me from what I read on the talkback. the talkback mob is fickle.....

  • July 8, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    and the haters were wrong about

    by emeraldboy

    Catherine tate.

  • July 8, 2008, 4:13 p.m. CST

    INWOsuxRED, I guess I was very lucky.....

    by axcel1

    I got 56 GREAT episodes of Doctor Who in the 4 years it's been on, each year giving me a GREAT 2-part finale and each year a GREAT xmas special. I know that, maybe, 95% of the people who comment on these Doctor Who talkbacks are Doctor Who fans and I'm always sorry to hear that almost everyone are not enjoying DW as much as I am. Yes, there are plot-holes, yes, sometimes, RTD vision of DW can't always be the same as ours, (The Master not looking and acting the way we think he should look and act.)I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with reset buttons and everything else all of you are complaining about. I do wonder why, the 2 times we see U.N.I.T., they are using standard weapons against superior forces, but, we could always come up with our own reason. I don't let things like that stop me from enjoying DW and the GREAT David Tennant.

  • July 8, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST


    by Ray Gamma

    the point though, is that people will watch the series because they have something invested in the long-term notion of "Dr Who" as a sci-fi idea. The viewers don't invest in one writer, or one storyline, and they only partially invest in the lead actors who are currently in the show. With something as long-running as Doctor Who, there's a sort of momentum of viewership now that is hard to stop. Even when RTD tried his best by bringing in stupid fucking characters like people with cat faces or those tiny 'cute' Adipose fucking things, people still stuck with the series. What he really needed to do, if he wanted to fuck the series totally, was to insist on getting Bonnie Langford back in as an assistant. That woulda worked.

  • July 8, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Oooooooooo, INWOsuxRED, I did the same thing with..........

    by axcel1

    Star Trek Enterprise, didn't like them going backwards, liked the cast, thou.

  • July 8, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    I'm not saying there aren't people (including homophobes) who bash RTD no matter what he does, but that does not mean he should be immune from criticism, either. There seems to be an all-or-nothing philosophy here sometimes...if you dare criticise RTD, you must be a hater. And so on.<P> And criticising RTD doesn't mean we know how to do it better, nor is it a requirement that we do. <P> There are a number of RTD episodes that I personally quite like, but IMO he seems to get stuck on these 2-part finales and can't work his way out without some kind of cheap cop-out.

  • July 8, 2008, 4:21 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    You're entitled to your opinion. If you don't mind big plot holes, fine. <P> I do. I like my stories to make sense and to hang together consistently.

  • July 8, 2008, 5:25 p.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    Agree with every word. Hating the way RTD writes has nothing to do with his sexuality, nor should that (or any other aspect of the man or his personal life) preclude anyone from criticising him. Hos writing just plain sucks - THAT'S why, in the main, the critics single him out for a hammering. He just plain is a shit writer. As for him bringing the show back... he was CHOSEN to do it by the Beeb, who were grateful for the popularity RTD's series CASANOVA got them and it was a favour for a favour. I think RTD's ITV SF/religious drama THE SECOND COMING may also have swung it for him - great with drama AND big themes. He did give it the same production values, look, attitude and cinematography of some of the best American SF dramas - he was wise enough to see that new Who needed to be able to compete internationally if it wasn't ot be a laughing stock. He made it look great, the Beeb got the attention of mainstream audiences by relentless advertising, and by the time "ROSE" aired, not many people who watched BBC1 were NOT aware of Who's imminent return. He did everything right... then his writing killed it. Stone dead. No-one gets to tell the showrunner his writing sucks for fear of their jobs... which is why Rusty's name on the producing credits is usually a good thing, but his name on the writing credits - steer well clear. And how much ego does it take for the showrunner to write EVERY first episode and finale? If he had any faith in his writers at all, he'd let some of the better ones (Cornell, Moffat, Shearman, Gatiss) have a crack at an opener or a closer.<P> Bah. At least after this season-that-isn't in 2009, he's gone for good. Bring on the Grand Moff Steve.

  • July 8, 2008, 5:27 p.m. CST

    You should see the SFX forums...

    by spud mcspud

    SFX Magazine in the UK I mean - you've never seen so many apologists and sycophants in one place, EVER. Naturally you have to put the opposing point of view in, but there's more Kool-Aid there than at the end of the world premiere of THE PHANTOM MENACE. Jeebus.

  • July 8, 2008, 5:56 p.m. CST

    When you land a big gig like this...

    by emeraldboy

    the power tends to go to your head. He became the big cheese in the bbc for dr who. It would have been better to do deal where he did part one of a story and for someone else to finish it or at least inprove on his ideas, if they werent good. If moffat is such a good writer, then at least they could have co-shared writing duties. or some such thing. or at least they should consider it having a group of writers.

  • July 8, 2008, 6:02 p.m. CST

    ByTor, you're right...........

    by axcel1

    I am entitled to my opinion, but, more importantly, I am entitled to enjoy Doctor Who, I don't mind big plot holes, but, more importantly, I don't look for them, they might stop me from enjoy Doctor Who. Guys, seriously, I'm sorry all of you are not enjoying DW as much as I am, whenever I see the TARDIS landing or taking off or see that Sonic screwdriver working it's magic, in the words of Ray Wise, "Oooooo, I get chills!!" 'Nuff said.

  • July 8, 2008, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Oh, wait, one more thing.................

    by axcel1

    I hope you all enjoy the xmas special, featuring the return of the Cybermen, I already know I will!!! (Come on, guys, aren't you wondering, just a little bit, how they ended up in 19th century England?) (Let me guess, is the answer, no?)

  • July 8, 2008, 8:37 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    "I don't mind big plot holes, but, more importantly, I don't look for them, they might stop me from enjoy Doctor Who." <P> I don't *look* for them, but if they're there, I can't exactly ignore them. Look, if all you care is that it's the Doctor and the TARDIS and maybe some Daleks from time to time, fine. I expect it to make sense. Doctor Who written like crap isn't enjoyable for me. If it is for you, then I'm very happy for you. (Note that I am not saying all of the new series is crap, or even all of RTD's episodes are crap, or even any of them are crap per se; I'm just making a point.)<P> "(Come on, guys, aren't you wondering, just a little bit, how they ended up in 19th century England?) (Let me guess, is the answer, no?)" <P> What a ridiculous thing to say. Why wouldn't we care? In fact, I'd argue that YOU don't care -- after all, you're fine with gaping plot holes. All RTD has to do is have the Doctor say something like, "Somehow the Cybermen have developed time travel technology" and you're fine, right?

  • July 9, 2008, 3:41 a.m. CST

    ByTor and Axcel1

    by spud mcspud

    ByTor - Just like you said. The main problem with the way Dr Who is written is that the season arcs (engineered by RTD) are vague, nonsensical (STILL haven't read a decent reason why the words BAD WOLF would send Rose to the place she ended up in PARTING OF THE WAYS. Didn't she get KIDNAPPED by transmat during the Weakest Link show? So being on the Dalek command vessel WASN'T her idea? So seeing the words BAD WOLF all through time, having been strewn there by Badass Rose the Dalek Slayer - WHAT was that meant to mean again?!?!? GAAAHHH!) and very badly executed. Witness the plastic crap time beetle, that apart from creating the bubble universe, played NO PART in the finale WHATSOEVER. What RTD obviously thinks is clever foreshadowing then wrong-footing the audience with a red herring actually comes across as incompetent writing. I mean, Axcel1, I'm glad you enjoy Who, but there are SF shows out there that actually make sense! BABYLON 5 was written with a 5-year arc in mind, and was great! FIREFLY NEVER confused its own internal logic, followed its own rules, and managed to be funny, witty AND exciting! (You could argue the movie contradicted the series, but then so did the Who movie). STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION had many, many more good episodes than bad - Doctor Who tends to have a small minority of awesome episodes to about half "meh" and a small amount of shockingly inept shite that insults the intelligence of its audience.<P> Even stuff like HEROES and TERMINATOR: SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES treats its audience as if they have SOME intelligence. And that caveat about "it's only a kids show"? Come ON! So was THUNDERBIRDS, STAR FLEET, MYSTERIOUS CITIES OF GOLD, ULYSSES 31, DRAMARAMA, TOMORROW PEOPLE, and they were ALL more intelligently written than new Who - hell, even MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE had more adherence to its own mythology and internal logic than new Who! It too often reads - and views - as if written by someone who has NEVER watched a previous episode of Who!<P> Axcel1, of course you have the right to your own opinion, and it's nice to know SOMEONE is enjoying it. But those of us who moan are holding that series up to a higher standard: we demand more from the show, as stuff like DALEK and FATHER'S DAY and HUMAN NATURE / FAMILY OF BLOOD and BLINK have shown: this material can be family oriented, scary, exciting AND intelligent, all at the same time! Is is too much to ask that it stays like that for maybe 70-80% of the time, instead of the pitiful 15% awesome, 70% meh and 15% fucking AWFUL that it does now? The SARAH JANE ADVENTURES are better written, produced and made, for crying out loud! And don't get me going on TORCHWOOD. Just... don't.<P> Oh, and to ANYONE who thinks the moaners moan because they haven't got to make/write Who themselves: utter bollocks. We just recognise that the quality episodes like BLINK, that make the very most of the format of Who, should be the norm, NOT the exception. And the accusation that we're all embittered, failed non-writers sitting in our parents' basements blaming the world for our failures... as childish, stereotyped and pathetic as the accusation that disliking RTD's writing makes you a homophobe. And it's as fucking old. Put simply, let's spin it around: why are so many Who supporters willing to be treated as fucking thick? RTD's new Who writes for its audiences as if they are the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet - AND THEY ENJOY IT! WHY AREN'T YOU OFFENDED BY RUSSELL AND THE BEEB TREATING YOU LIKE THE THICKEST BASTARDS ON EARTH?!?!?! HE'S INSULTING YOU!!!

  • July 9, 2008, 3:43 a.m. CST

    Axcel1 - Christmas special

    by spud mcspud

    I'll watch it - so will most people. But you have to admit, there are more interesting monsters to use for a Christmas special than the Cybermen - which have never recovered from being given that godawful catchphrase "Delete, delete!". Just howlingly awful.

  • July 9, 2008, 4:04 a.m. CST

    ByTor = right on

    by Steve Rogers

    If someone criticises a plothole in an RTD episode it doesn't make them an RTD hater (I have loved many of his episodes, I just think his 2 parters/season finales often end up collapsing in the resolution), nor does it make them fussy nit-pickers. If there was a huge gaping plothole in Deadwood or The Wire, fans of those series would be able to point it out without people assuming they wished David Milch or David Simon dead. <p> An unwillingness to allow dodgy writing does not equal a hatred of the programme. As if we're not interested in the Cybermen at Christmas! Would we even be on this talkback if we didn't?

  • July 9, 2008, 6:48 a.m. CST

    Spud Mcspud

    by notspock2

    I can clear up one of those parting of the ways anomalies.. <p> Rose was taken there by transmat originally, yes, but she returns of her own free will via the tardis. And it's at THIS point, she sends the message back. She knows where to go because she will tell herself and it's backwards causality and a paradox,something in the future changing the present, <p> The new who has established on a few occasions that this kind of thing can happen. The doctor only knows to make the easter eggs in blink because he made the easter eggs in blink and Sally sparrow tells him about them. A causal loop. The tardis itself travels to places where things will happen, but only if the tardis travels there.. this has been established too. A lot of your other points suit my preferences for what i would like from DR Who in the future, but i have very few problems with how it has been, I have been having too much fun with it.

  • July 9, 2008, 7:18 a.m. CST

    ByTor, sorry if my xmas special comment was misunderstood...

    by axcel1

    When I said,"(Come on, guys, aren't you wondering, just a little bit, how they ended up in 19th century England?) (Let me guess, is the answer, no?)", I was not directing that toward you or, even, spud mcspud, it was directed at the people on this talkback who have have said negative things about it already. Reminds me of when people were commenting on Ms Tate before even seeing season (series) 4. spud mcspud, 2 things, first, maybe there are more interesting monsters to use for a Christmas special than the Cybermen, but, as I have said before, the Cybermen are my favorite DW bad guys, second, I agree with you 100%, Babylon 5 % Firefly were fantastic!!! (Too bad about TBS screwing up the spin-off and Fox canceling Firefly.) I'll go you one better, (In my opinion, of course.) Farscape, the way the show was written, you couldn't show it out of order, you didn't know who was staying or going, and even when the episode ended, you felt like had to tune in next week because of the continuing sub-plots. (Ooooooo, I feel like pulling out my Farscape DVD collection out and watching it again!!!) Ok, ByTor, spud mcspud, back to Who, yes, I know some episodes are NOT as GREAT as others, (As I said in an earlier post, I consider "Boomtown" to be least great since it was just cleaning up after "World War Three".) ByTor, spud mcspud, yes, I know the show is not PERFECT, even thou I have jokingly said it was in many a post, but, I am enjoying the show too much to look for the imperfections. As for plot-holes, I try to come up with a solution to them myself IF I see one. For example, U.N.I.T. using standard-weapons against superior-forces (the Daleks), maybe they were not using standard ammo and thought it would work against the Daleks. I am sorry if anything I have posted was taken as insulting or offensive, it's never meant to be anything like that. As for the Cybermen ending up in 19th century England, time and space has no meaning in the void, so, when the void was emptied, they ended up there?

  • July 9, 2008, 7:32 a.m. CST


    by axcel1

    Every time I read your posts I say to myself, "WOW, I was thinking that, too!" I guess it's true what they say, great minds think alike!!! Oh, ByTor, spud mcspud, both of you have great minds, too!!!

  • July 9, 2008, 8:02 a.m. CST


    by lynxpro

    RTD didn't change "that" at all. It was Phil Segal who changed that back in 1996 when he showed the world what could be done with *Doctor Who* if proper money was spent on it. The tv movie's production values are still unrivaled by NewWho. It also introduced concepts that RTD has borrowed and has received way too much credit for. But that's what happens when people have short attention spans and can't remember anything beyond yesterday.

  • July 9, 2008, 8:14 a.m. CST

    I Saw the Dr who tv movie with paul mcGann...

    by emeraldboy

    Very good it was too.

  • July 9, 2008, 8:16 a.m. CST

    I grew up watching dr who....

    by emeraldboy

    My favourite is tom baker. the man is nuts.

  • July 9, 2008, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Mixed feelings on this latest two-parter

    by tylermo

    Damned if I didn't want to hail it as THE two-part finale of two-part finales, but...I knew that it was uphill battle before it aired. RTD was writing it for starters, and there were too many guest stars. I'm not even sure where to start. I'll agree with most that part 1 was better than 2. That's usually the case for RTD. On the subject of guest stars...Rose should have never been back. It killed the emotional impact of her departure in Doomsday. Plus, distracting dental work, and sometimes nothing to do in these last two ep's made it less than worthwhile. I loved Rose(by and large) ANd, as an old school fan(well, 1980's US PBS fan of DW)I have always been a huge fan of Sara Jane Smith. That said, she shouldn't have returned. Once again, destroying the emotional impact of the School REunion episode. Worse than that,(not all)some of Sara's moments were cringe-worthy because they turned her into a blubbering little girl. Admittedly, SJS was feisty early on in Pertwee's Time Warrior, and was prone to some damsel in distress moments in the Baker years, but she still managed to be a quality companion. And, I loved her in School Reunion. However, she cried when approaching the Daleks in her car, and then also pulls out some necklace(plot device) to threat Davros with. She did have some decent moments when she convinced Mickey and Jackie to drop their guns in order to infiltrate the Dalek base. Liz Sladen's acting was fine, but they sullied the character a bit. Captain Jack was okay in some bits, I suppose. Then there was Mickey, Jackie, Martha, and K-9. Not to mention, Sara's son, Yanto(?), and somebody else from Torchwood. No offense(I've been meaning to), but I haven't had a chance to watch those programs yet, and therefore have no attachment to those characters. They ate up precious time that could have been better spent with the DOCTOR and DAVROS. Just as there could have been grand conversations, and confrontations between the Doctor and the Master last year(instead of Dobby WHo/tent pup). Either way, kudos to TEnnant, Tate, Bleach, and Cribbens. It's unfortunate that so much time was wasted with others who really shouldn't have been there. As for the story itself, it was a mix of good, mediocre, and shit. The two-second Shadow Proclamation diversion, the almost regenerated plot device, the three fold split of Donna, real Doctor, and other Doc. On one hand, I didn't mind Donna picking up his knowledge, and things turning out for her as they did, but I could have done without the other Doc and Rose finally have that let's get hitched up kiss that "all of us" supposedly longed for. I didn't. ANd, it totally destroyed Doomsday once again. Not to nitpick too much but the scene of all the companions operating the Tardis felt contrived, and somewhat cheesy. And, once again the "real" Doc was standing around some with not much to do, because RTD has gone overboard with the companions saving the day(during finales at least). I'm sure there's other things I'm forgetting. There were some good moments. The Daleks rounding up people in the streets, the German Dalek, BERNARD CRIBBENS, Catherine Tate(who I initially hated, but now consider to be in my upper-2nd tier, or lower first tier of favorite companions), Tennant, Davros' laying the guilt on our Doc, and how Donna could never retain knowledge of the Doctor, and their travels(sort of an unique twist on the J. McCrimmon/Zoe Herriet storyline from the Troughton years). Oh well. I'm sure there'll be more discussion to follow. I'm looking forward to next year's movies, and the X-mas special. I'm sure RTD is writing them all, so that's somewhat disturbing. *fingers crossed* When he's good, he's not too bad, and when he's bad, he's bad. Thanks for bringing the show into the mainstream. Here's hoping that Moffat will be able to produce, and write as many ep's per season as RTD did.

  • July 9, 2008, 9:20 a.m. CST

    not everyone has an enclyopedic knowledge..

    by emeraldboy

    of dr who. unless one has all the Episodes on DVD. or something.

  • July 9, 2008, 9:30 a.m. CST


    by Steve Rogers

    I agree 100%.

  • July 9, 2008, 9:31 a.m. CST

    no, the TV movie is

    by Steve T

    shite! McGann is good tho. will people stop giving axcel shit! i don't agree with him, but the guy has his own opinion and is perfectly polite, stop being arsey little shits!

  • July 9, 2008, 9:31 a.m. CST

    True, Emerald boy

    by tylermo

    Unfortunately, I only have 30-35 of the 55-60(?) story arcs that are available on DVD. I've got to catch up. If the classic who story arcs ever go out of production(on dvd), even the shittiest episodes will double in price(or more) on Ebay.

  • July 9, 2008, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Glad to hear it, Steve Rogers

    by tylermo

    I'm not sure if you and I have always seen eye to eye in the past, but we do on these things. And, in the land of (a sometimes very abrasive)AICN, that's a rare thing. hehe

  • July 9, 2008, 9:39 a.m. CST

    The 96 tv movie...

    by tylermo

    I thought some of the story was good. As for effects, seems like it had enough budget to be at least on par with the new Who, or better in spots. That wouldn't surprise me. For example, I'd say that most the effects in Farscape(which preceeded new Who by more than a few years) were probably better than what we're getting overall with new DW. But, back to the 96 movie...McGann was good, and would have been even better in future episodes. I don't think the story, or Eric Roberts(dare I utter his name)killed Who's future in 1996. Maybe it just wasn't time for Who to make a comeback. ANd, maybe there shouldn't have been a big push to be on Fox. I'm sure there's more of an official back story as to why Who failed in 96.

  • July 9, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Colin Baker revisited

    by tylermo

    I'm just from the old U.S. PBS stations Doctor Who audience (so maybe my perspective is different), but I liked Colin Baker. And, he was not my first Doctor. Can't remember if my first episode(sometimes sporadic viewing) was a P. Davison, or a Pertwee repeat. But, suffice it to say, I still liked C. Baker. Not as much as some of the others admittedly. COlin's costume aside, he was plagued with a number of mediocre or bad stories. Not as many as McCoy, however. Sylvester's run had the record for worst stories. Getting back to Colin, it's fair to say that Twin Dillema was bad, and maybe a part or two of the Trial of a Timelord. Overall, I liked his style, and his episodes. Vengeance on Varos was exceptional, and I still like Attack of the Cybermen, Revelation of the Daleks, and Mark of the Rani, to name just a few. I give them kudos for trying to do something different with the character. Sure he was an ass, but maybe he would have grown over time. And, it really sucks for C. Baker because he had such passion for the program. And, he definately had one of the yummiest/cleaviest companions of the program's run.hehe No offense to Nicola Bryant. I actually liked the character for other reasons, as well.

  • July 9, 2008, 10:18 a.m. CST

    I havent old Who in a long time as they dont repeat

    by emeraldboy

    them on the bbc like they used to. I seem to remember Colin Baker as overly pudgy ring master but without the hat. There was a documentary in the run to the news series of dr who. I agree with Peter Davidson who said that the effects would better regarding regens.

  • July 9, 2008, 10:21 a.m. CST

    All the yoda/stroke dobby the house shtick they

    by emeraldboy

    pulled on David Tennant. in last years finale was awful.

  • July 9, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    The upper ecehloens of the BBC were openly hostile...

    by emeraldboy

    to dr who and from its inception. they didnt understand Sci-fi which they saw as an american thing and not in any way british. Verity Lambert had to fight tooth and nail to keep the show on the air. When she left the beeb to join granada. The bbc's skepticism remained. Micheal Grade Who worked with Lambert, barely contained his hatred of the show. so when he assumed command of the beeb, he axed. but the cast were left in the dark.

  • July 9, 2008, 10:57 a.m. CST

    Sooo much better than last years

    by davidaball

    Have to add my 10pence that actually disecting each episode is half the fun of watching it. Don't always think of criticism as being neagtive It's because we like the show so much we actually pay attention to it.<p> Anyway slightly off topic nere's my top 5 episodes so far 1. Girl in the fireplace <br> 2. blink<br> 3. The empty child / the doctor dances<br> 4. Human nature / family of blood<br> 5. doomsday<br> <p> Least favourite episodes <br> 1. Last of the Timelords <br> 2. Love and Monsters <br> 3. gridlocked <br> 4. 42 <br> 5. Voyage of the dammned <br> <p> Anyone care to add their opinion

  • July 9, 2008, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Everytime I watch the finale I cry a lot.

    by Smashing

    I start crying right around the time they all help fly the Tarids, then I go off again when Rose is again abandoned and finally when Donna is begging not to go back I collapse in floods.<P> What an emotional doozy this ep is, like a nut kick, I hope someway in the future Donna returns.

  • July 9, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST


    by Sophievdp

    yeah me too..even if he only bumps into her in the street:)

  • July 9, 2008, 11:17 a.m. CST

    I've only just remembered

    by series six

    Three episodes back Donna asked Rose why Rose always wore the same clothes. Did all of Rose's trips to this universe happen on the same day for her? And I'd like to see a story of Rose and human-ish Who. A bit like that Enterprise story in the mirror universe. Maybe one of the four for next year. We cloud learn the consequences of one of The Doctor's decisions.

  • July 9, 2008, 12:58 p.m. CST

    As far as the 96 movie

    by ByTor

    Well for what it cost ($5m) it should've actually looked better than it did. That was a tremendous amount of money in 1995-6, but it really doesn't show up on screen. The TARDIS set was gorgeous, I do not dispute -- in fact, it's still my favorite. But for $5m we should've seen a fair number of spectacular effects, and we just didn't. Segal spent money on things like antiques for the TARDIS set -- he scoured Vancouver-area antique shops for genuine antique chairs, clocks etc. -- why? Wouldn't cheap imitations have served just as well? And so on. <P> And while I *think* McGann might have made a good Doctor -- we really can't tell from the single telefilm -- the story for the telefilm was just ass. Putting aside the silliness of the Eye of Harmony being inside the TARDIS, the idea that only a human could open it? So...let me get this straight. A craft built by the Time Lords of Gallifrey is designed so that a glance from a pure human opens the dangerous thingy which shouldn't be opened anyway? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? <P> Plus, the decision to do the regeneration was not a good one. As a fan I was certainly pleased to see Sylvester get a chance for a send-off, but in a telefilm designed to attract new viewers, it's just stupid. RTD said as much during one of the early Confidentials: in a new series designed to grab new viewers, you can't kill off the main character in the beginning. It's just dopey. Plus you end up with the new main character more or less out of it for much of the rest of the story. I doubt we really saw much of what McGann's Doctor would've been there, and shame on Segal for not figuring such basic things out. <P> And I don't blame Eric Roberts at all...he played the part he was given. I actually liked his Master early on, but towards the end he was just...awful. Now if you want to see what an Eric Roberts Master *could've* been like, go dig up a copy of a movie called By The Sword. Also stars F. Murray Abraham. I had been hoping that the character Roberts played there (called, of all things, "The Maestro") would've been an inspiration for Segal's team, but alas. <P> But what killed the 96 telefilm was an incoherent plot that makes the worst of RTD's finales look like Shakespeare's Hamlet by comparison.

  • July 9, 2008, 2:33 p.m. CST

    for everyone crying during the finale...

    by notspock2

    YOU BIG GIRLS BLOUSES<p> ok, <p> yeah ,me too. It's one thing i think RTD has done brilliantly, make you(and about 10 million more people in the uk) invest in the characters to the point where you actually care about them and their fates, His plot logic might be a bit off at times, but he does nail what Whedon would call moments, even if he gets the movements wonky...

  • July 9, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Speilberg saw that film and immedaitely..

    by emeraldboy

    try to buy dr who for his now defunct Dreamworks tv company. The berg actually was the one who came up with the elevating daleks and I remember seeing a photo of it in a discarded red top on a bus in dublin. But as we know dr who became became mired in litigation. Untill the end of the millenium. The one thing that stalled the return of dr who was the refusal of the state of Terry Nation to allow the Daleks become part of the show again. We should all thank our loucky stars that speilberg didnt succeed. Dr who in the hands of him would have been a disaster.

  • July 9, 2008, 2:46 p.m. CST

    emeraldboy: you are SO WRONG

    by ByTor

    You've managed to get pretty much every detail entirely wrong. Well done. <P> Spielberg's interest was well before the Fox telefilm. And there were several iterations before the telefilm, some good, some bad. And how could Spielberg have come up with the elevating Daleks if they had already appeared in Remembrance of the Daleks? <P> You got a lot of other things wrong too, but I'm tired of correcting you.

  • July 9, 2008, 2:50 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    I can't help myself. Dreamworks was never involved -- it was Amblin (when all this started, Dreamworks didn't exist). And Dreamworks isn't defunct. And at no time did Nation's estate prevent Doctor Who from being made, though for a while it looked like the new series might not get the rights to do Dalek stories. <P> And I don't know what you saw on a bus in Dublin, but I very much doubt it had anything to do with anything.

  • July 9, 2008, 3 p.m. CST

    about the berg and dr who....

    by emeraldboy

    They did try and relaunch dr who in america. But it didnt work. the Daleks were part of it. This was long before legal matters were cleared up. A speilberg dr would have computer effects driven. and he would have been involved. The daleks themselves were metallic blue. from what I can remember. and were smaller.

  • July 9, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    emeraldboy: NO, YOU ARE WRONG

    by ByTor

    Spielberg was never much involved anyway; his company, Amblin was. But that WAS BEFORE THE FOX TELEFILM. Yes, there would've been computer effects, just as there were in the telefilm. The Daleks never got past the drawing stage, so whatever you think you are remembering is very, very wrong.

  • July 9, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    You are not a teacher...

    by emeraldboy

    are you?

  • July 9, 2008, 3:13 p.m. CST

    emeraldboy: nope

    by ByTor

    Just someone who hates it when someone like you comes along and posts utter rubbish. Get it right or don't bother.

  • July 9, 2008, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Axcel1 / Smashing

    by spud mcspud

    Steve T - Nah, we're not ragging on Axcel1, he/she is always unfailingly polite and enthusiastic - a rarity on these cynical-as-fuck threads! At least Axcel's gonna LOVE that Christmas special - and though I'm not the biggest fan of the Cybermen, I am looking forward to finding out how they ended up in Victorian England! Plus David Morrissey's in it (he was great in CAPE WRATH) and I hear rumours of two factions of Cybermen - some rustier and more beat up than others. Could all be Toclafane poo, but you never know...<P> Anyway, so long as it doesn't suck as badly as VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED, I'll be entertained. I'll probably be drunk and overful by then anyway, so I'll enjoy it. It's Christmas, dammit!<P> Smashing - I will concede that JOURNEY'S END had emotional payoffs by the bucketload. Towing the Earth back - ridiculous as it was - was quite rousing, as was the group of companions and friends flying the TARDIS, which was lovely to see. The Rose resolution was a bit pat for me - here, have a magic clone of the Doctor and piss off back to Parallel-land! - especially after bringing her back and ruining that wonderful dramatic end scene in DOOMSDAY. The bit that really got me was Donna pleading with the Doctor not to take her memories away - and it's a kick in the balls to see the old Donna, all bellowing-fishwife celeb-worshipping Heat-reading dumbass, not having a clue who the Doctor was. And Wilf saying goodbye and how he'll think of the Doctor, and the Doctor thanking him, and going on, alone and stoic as always...<P> The emotional payoffs in JOURNEY'S END were magnificent. It's just a shame the narrative logic and plotting around it made less sense than your average episode of IN THE NIGHT GARDEN...

  • July 9, 2008, 4:30 p.m. CST

    spud mcspud, just to let you know...........

    by axcel1

    I'm a guy. Just one of the many american jerks who found Doctor Who (Tom Baker) being shown on PBS. I don't know I remember (I started watching about 25 years ago), but, the first one I saw was, "The Invasion of Time". It was on a Sunday afternoon, nothing to do, turned on the tv and started flicking. I start it and the rest is history. (I also started watching All Creatures Great and Small, don't know why, just found it very interesting to watch.)

  • July 9, 2008, 4:34 p.m. CST

    2 word mistakes

    by axcel1

    The word "why" should be between "know" & "I" and further on, it should say, "I saw it and the rest is history."

  • July 9, 2008, 4:36 p.m. CST

    The impossible good, bad list

    by tylermo

    Anyway slightly off topic nere's my top 5 episodes so far 1. Girl in the fireplace 2. blink 3. The empty child / the doctor dances 4. Human nature / family of blood 5. doomsday Least favourite episodes 1. Last of the Timelords 2. Love and Monsters 3. gridlocked 4. 42 5. Voyage of the dammned Anyone care to add their opinion Tylermo, here. I don't know what my particular order would be, but some of the top tiers include:Once again, no particular order 1.Girl in the Fireplace 2.The Satan Pit/Mysterious Planet 3.Empty Child/The Doctor Dances 4.Human Nature/Family of Blood 5.Father's Day 6.Doomsday These at the very least. Others that I put in the top tier or very close to it(which still pleased this old school fan) would be:The Unquiet Dead, Bad Wolf, The Parting of the Ways, School Reunion, Age of STeel/Rise of the Cybermen, Blink, Silence in the Library two-parter(I don't have a list in front of me, so I can't remember them all)There are more for this category that escape me. Then there are many in the better than average category-Aliens of London/World War III,just to name a few...Ah Hell, I can't do this justice without a complete list in front of me. Suffice it to say that the really bad ones that I mostly or completed hated were Gridlock(except for the recollections of Gallifrey), Love and Monsters, Partners in "Adipose" Crime, Boomtown, the Cassandra revisited episode(can't remember the name-2nd season) was part shit at least, and Fear Her(if not bad, it was FAR from great) And, as season finales go, I hesitate to call last year's final episode(pt.2) I'll have to revisit this list when I get the complete episode names in front of me. hehe My brains going to explode, and I'm afraid I have may have rated some incorrectly.

  • July 9, 2008, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Already forgot another top tier ep

    by tylermo

    Dalek. *duh*

  • July 9, 2008, 8:09 p.m. CST

    Bad Wolf

    by INWOsuxRED

    During the confidential for "Turn Right", Tennant asks RTD what is the meaning of Bad Wolf, and RTD really struggles to explain it and just insists that it sounds great and has resonance.

  • July 9, 2008, 8:20 p.m. CST

    the episdoes is called "Turn Left"

    by INWOsuxRED

    sorry if that confused anyone.

  • July 9, 2008, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Best and Worst list

    by INWOsuxRED

    Best<br>Empty Child/Doctor Dances<br> Blink<br> Forest of the Dead/Silence in the Library<br> Girl in the FIreplace<br> Human Nature/Family of Blood<br> Utopia<br><br>Worst:<br>Love and Monsters<br> Fear Her<br> Evolution of the Daleks<br> The Doctor's Daughter<br> Last of the Time Lords<br>42

  • July 10, 2008, 3:38 a.m. CST

    Best and Worst

    by Steve Rogers

    BEST: <p> 1. Human Nature/The Family of Blood <p> ("We wanted to live forever... so The Doctor made sure that we did.")<p> 2. Blink <p> ("Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey")<p> 3. The Girl In The Fireplace <p> ("There comes a time, Timelord, when every lonely little boy must learn how to dance")<p> 4. Utopia <p> ("I... am... THE MASTER.")<p> 5. The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances <p> ("Are you my mummy?")(p> <p> Honourable mentions: School Reunion, The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, Dalek, Fires of Pompeii, The Sontaran Strategem/Poison Sky, Midnight, Father's Day and, of course, Time Crash. <p> <p> WORST: <p> 1. Love & Monsters (YAAAAWWN) <p> 2. Boomtown (yawn) <p> 3. The Doctor's Daughter (botched) <p> 4. Daleks In Manhattan/Evolution Of The Daleks (cocks on the head) <p> 5. Fear Her (I live in London and am already sick of the Olympics!) Dishonourable mentions: 42, The Long Game, Bad Wolf (reality TV aspect)

  • July 10, 2008, 3:44 a.m. CST

    INWOsuxRED - Bad Wolf

    by spud mcspud

    Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that - on the TURN LEFT Dr Who Confidential Tennant does actually ask Russell the T what Bad Wolf meant - and Russell goes off into a detour about how he just thought the words "bad wolf" had resonance, a kind of inherent spookiness blah blah and, in true Whitehall style, completely managed to evade the question.<P> So: BAD WOLF = NONSENSE. As confirmed by Tennant and Russell the T.<P> Glad to see the back of him - or, at least, I will after the horrors to come from season 5...

  • July 10, 2008, 7:15 a.m. CST

    well, i think bad wolf does have an inherent spookiness

    by notspock2

    It's evocative of fairy tales, and mysterious monsters from childhood, as such i think it was well chosen. It's meaning was pretty clear in season one, it was a message sent back from a point in time and space to tell Rose to come back to that point in space and time. Of course, as to what the hell it means when it comes back on all the banners in the *cough* firefly planet- well they haven't explained that. <p> I can understand why Rose would say those words in a message for the Doctor. What is somewhat confusing is why the banners would suddenly start showing the word just after Donna said it. I can go with the TARDIS TRANSLATION CIRCUITS telling the Doctor through warping his view of reality theory, but i should really not have to listen to fans making (i hate the word FANWANK) it up and the implication of using bad wolf as the sign is that Rose still has some part of whatever power she had in the parting of the ways...<p> BIG TWISTS should be explained in the context of the script... (great moment though) <p> i hope for better with Moffat, and think we'll get much more of that.

  • July 10, 2008, 7:50 a.m. CST


    by Steve Rogers

    When Rose BECAME the Bad Wolf originally (at the end of Series 1), and scattered the words throughout space and time, she put them on the Chinese/Firefly planet at that point in time? So it was already a done deal that they would appear, even though we/the Doctor wouldn't know this for a few series? <p> <p> Of course, this is all massive fanbase supposition, and I entirely agree: it should have been explained in the script (along with how the words appeared then reappeared on the Tardis). <p> It was a great cliffhanger and a superb "moment", but clearly RTD put it in becuase it was cool, not because he had any justification for it in the story.

  • July 10, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Lol @ Spud's Night Garden comment.

    by Smashing

    UI love the night garden, after a wee smoke its tres trippy, as for the person who called me a wuss for crying over Who, after you taken large amounts of cock up your arse then you can call me a wuss, mmkay?!

  • July 10, 2008, 9:13 a.m. CST

    Oh I so never meant to post that,.

    by Smashing

    I write then edit, today no edit, oopsie, Spud I am glad you enjoyed the emotional aspects of the finale, that console scene, with all the gang is just beautiful.

  • July 10, 2008, 9:20 a.m. CST

    For those in the states with onDemand

    by INWOsuxRED

    the illusion network is hidden away under "music and next gen" on my cable system, and they currently have the first two episodes of Tomb of the Cybermen available, as well as a couple of episodes from Genesis of the Daleks. Unfortunately, they show them the old timey way, so each episode is 22 minutes and they don't have the full stories up at one time. Still if you want to see what Who was like in the early days, you can have a look without buying a DVD or doing any online stealing.

  • July 10, 2008, 5:51 p.m. CST

    How could I forget Utopia?

    by tylermo

    Even though I detest and sometimes like RTD's ep's, Utopia was one of his best. And, it was definately in the upper tier. Tooth and Claw was definately another good RTD episode. No doubt about it. Except for the part where "Torchwood" was shoe-horned in.

  • July 10, 2008, 6:39 p.m. CST

    I remember that too...

    by davidaball

    Sad to say but Emerald boy has got something there.<p> I remember watching a tv show Saturday morning or something and they announced that Steven Spielberg was in Development of Doctor who series / film and they showed a clip of a "Dalek monster" it was a flying Dalek that was made from many section and opened up to reveal the dalek creature inside. I think the design was reused for a Doctor Who comic where they weere called daleks from another dimension.<p> Having read that back it does sound like I dreamt all that up but I'm sure it all happened.

  • July 10, 2008, 6:40 p.m. CST

    glad to see it want just me that disliked love and monsters

    by davidaball

    And was Tooth and Claw a RTD script? That really wasnt that bad.

  • July 11, 2008, 9:24 a.m. CST


    by ByTor

    I cannot help what you remember vaguely. I am here to tell you the facts, which are: <P> (1) Spielberg personally had little to no involvement in Who <P> (2) Spielberg's COMPANY, Amblin, was indeed trying to launch a new Who <P> (3) Some concept drawings, etc. were done early on of Daleks, including morphing "spider" Daleks, and it's possible some brief test footage was created <P> (4) This effort is what ultimately turned into the Fox telefilm; Phil Segal was the guy behind it all, and Amblin bowed out at one point during the various iterations and it just became a Segal/Universal/BBCW thing. <P> I suppose it's possible that the show you saw did claim that Spielberg was developing it, but that's just bad journalism. And again, this was all BEFORE the Fox telefilm.

  • July 11, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Tooth and Claw

    by tylermo

    was an RTD. Quite good in general, and a great script from him!

  • July 11, 2008, 4:26 p.m. CST


    by axcel1

    is my favorite DW from the past 4 seasons (series). It's onr thing to write a dynamite DW episode, but, to write one with the Doctor hardly in it and have you on the edge of your seat, well, that makes it special.

  • July 11, 2008, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Oh, one more thing..............

    by axcel1

    beyond the 2008 xmas special, anyone have any info on the 2009 "Bank Holiday Doctor Who Specials"? Also, anyone have any idea when the next season (series) of The Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood? I know a lot of people do not like Torchwood, but, I watch both shows mostly because of their connection to Who.

  • July 11, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Left out one word.....

    by axcel1

    the word "start" should be after the word "Torchwood" in the second sentence.

  • July 11, 2008, 6:28 p.m. CST

    News on the 2009 specials

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    (For axcel1 and anyone else still reading this talkback)<p>Producer Julie Gardner has revealed details of the 2009 specials. There are going to be 4 one-hour episodes. One of which will be shown this year (at Xmas). The next will be shown at Easter 2009. The third hasn't been scheduled yet. And the fourth will be the Xmas day ep of 2009. <P>Russell T Davies is writing two of these, and is co-writing the other two. There's no news yet on who the other co-writer is. <P>(But I bet his name rhymes with Meeven Stoffat)

  • July 11, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST

    The Handsome 12th Doctor, thank you

    by axcel1

    Now, if someone in the UK can tell me what "Bank holiday" comes in August and/or September, then, we have a pretty good idea when the 3th one will air. (I'm still looking forward to seeing the return of the Cybermen, maybe they're from our universe, Mondas or Telos? We can only hope.)

  • July 11, 2008, 7:11 p.m. CST

    August bank holiday

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Yes, I'd say that would be a reasonable guess for the third. The last Monday in August is always a bank holiday, so I expect the third special will be shown around then. I'm thinking they'll stick to the now traditional Saturday night showings, but then they might go different for these specials and put them on the holiday Mondays.

  • July 11, 2008, 7:13 p.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    "UI love the night garden, after a wee smoke its tres trippy, as for the person who called me a wuss for crying over Who, after you taken large amounts of cock up your arse then you can call me a wuss, mmkay?!"<P> Two points:<P> (1) I'm too scared of that Night Garden shit to dare watch it while out of my mind. That MakkaPakka thing haunts my dreams - a Lovecraftian nightmare...<P> (2) Paradoxically, your (rather graphic!) description does actually make you sound much less of a wuss when you consider it. I actually feel LESS of a man after reading your post, and so am now more confused than ever! :S<P> Nah, you're forgiven on the crying over Who thing. I wept buckets at FATHER'S DAY, and definitely had the lump in the throat when Wilf said goodbye at the end... * manly sniffle*

  • July 11, 2008, 10:06 p.m. CST

    The Handsome 12th Doctor, thank you again

    by axcel1

    So, to recap, we have 2 xmas specials, (thursday & friday), 1 Easter special, (when is Easter? The day is always different, I know, it's end of March, begining of April.) And,?, the "Bank Holiday" at the end of August?, hooray!!!!! Thank God, the BBC came to their senses and and realized what a cashcow DW is. Well, goodbye to all, and, serious, I hope you all enjoy the xmas specials and the rest of them, I already know I will.

  • July 12, 2008, 2:17 a.m. CST

    USA doesn't get finale until August 1...

    by Bill Clay

    Isn't it amazing that so many die hard US Who fans are discussing a finale that the masses will not see until Sci-Fi Channel broadcasts it on August 1? Life was unbearable before the internet!

  • PBS, that's how I found Doctor Who.

  • July 12, 2008, 3:34 p.m. CST

    PBS' politics doesn't do much for me, but...

    by tylermo

    they(KETC 9) used to provide all sorts of British goodness like Doctor Who, Blake's 7, Red Dwarf, BlackAdder, Mr. Bean, Are You Being Served?, Allo Allo, among others. I'll give them that.

  • July 12, 2008, 4:07 p.m. CST

    tylermo, the PBS station in my area.....

    by axcel1

    Had the same stuff, and All Creatures Great And Small on sundays at 3 in the afternoon. Speaking of Blake's 7, it remind of Farscape.

  • July 12, 2008, 4:10 p.m. CST

    did it again.............

    by axcel1

    left out the letter "s" and the word "me" after "remind".

  • July 14, 2008, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Just a thought

    by series six

    Just a thought about Donna not been able to remember anything about her time with the Doctor or she'll die. Donna lives in Chiswic in West London, and Sarah Jane lives in Ealing, in West London. These places are only a few miles apart, if that, so the chances of them bumping into each other is quite high. And Sarah Jane doesn't know Donna will die if she remembers the doctor. If they bumped into each other the first thing she'd do is ask about the Doctor. They could use this to explain what sets Donna off if they go back to give her a happy ending.

  • July 14, 2008, 9:29 a.m. CST


    by Steve Rogers

    I wondered if maybe they could use the latent Time Lord energy/whatever inside Donna as a way to bring back The Master in a latter season. So that way she can remember without dying and he could restore himself as a Time Lord? I dunno, fan-wanky straw grasping. <p> To be honest I look forward to Moffat forging his own path and leaving a lot of these characters behind (ESPECIALLY the fucking Tylers. YAWN).

  • July 14, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Or, as one person said in this talkback.....

    by axcel1

    RTD may have been cleaning house, getting rid of characters and subplots to give Mr Moffat a clean slat to start the 5th season with. (I'll bet the 4 specials will have the Doctor alone in all of them.)

  • July 14, 2008, 2:16 p.m. CST

    He might be alone, but can RTD resist

    by tylermo

    having some supermodels or pop stars. Not to say Kylie Minogue(?) was bad. Except for the need to have her fall for the Doctor. That story had been done to death already. Moffat definately deserves a relatively clean slate.

  • July 15, 2008, 8:18 a.m. CST

    I re-watched Voyage of the Damned last night.

    by Smashing

    As well as enjoying it a lot more than I remembered I noticed that the old man the Doc leaves on earth with a full credit card is called Mr Copper, would that be the same Mr Copper Harriet Jones mentions in The Stolen earth as the man who enabled the Subway Network?, if so its another wee RTD sublime hook up, nifty.

  • Sept. 12, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Tennant negotiating for a big screen Who

    by INWOsuxRED

    "The actor, currently only contracted for five more episodes, has reportedly agreed to reprise his role as the tenth Doctor in a full fifth season in 2010 if the big screen role can be added to a new deal."