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The British Seem To Like The Companion-Centric, Alternate-Universe, Antepenultimate DOC WHO Of The R.T. Davies Era!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Lots of positive vibes for “Doctor Who” 30.11, which just aired on the BBC in Blighty, where Harry & Jay Knowles are relaxing at the moment. It’s 107 degrees here in Studio City at the moment; I trust it’s cooler there!
“Doctor Dan” returns:
DOCTOR WHO 4.11 – "Turn Left"
Writer: Russell T. Davies
Director: Graeme Harper
Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna Noble), Billie Piper (Rose Tyler), Bernard Chibbins (Gramps), Jacqueline King (Sylvia Noble), Chippo Chung (Fortune Teller), Joseph Long (Rocco Colasanto), Noma Dumzwemi (Captain Magambo), Suzann McLean (Veena Brady), Marcia Lecky (Mooky Kahari), Natalie Walter (Alice Coltrane), Bhaskar Patel (Jival Chowdry), Loraine Velez (Spanish Maid), Clive Standen (Private Harris), Sanchia McCormack (Housing Officer), Terri-Ann Burmby (Woman In Doorway), Paul Richard Biggin (Soldier #2), Neil Clench (Man In Pub), Lawrence Stevenson (Soldier #1), Catherine York (Female Reporter), Lachele Carl (Trinity Wells)
Russell T. Davies writes himself a big love letter with "Turn Left", cramming the episode with winks, nods and sideways looks at his lynchpin episodes that have informed Doctor Who these past 3 years. We begin on the alien planet of Shan Shen (an intergalactic Chinatown , based on the décor), where The Doctor (David Tennant) has fun bartering with locals and Donna (Catherine Tate) is persuaded to visit a Fortune Teller (Chippo Chung). The Fortune Teller's true intentions are revealed when a giant beetle-like insects attaches itself to Donna's back and somehow manipulates her personal history – making Donna turn right at a road junction (heading to a £20,000 new job) instead of left.
This simple decision alters established history, butterfly effect-style, meaning Donna never meets The Doctor (see: "The Runaway Bride") and consequently Davies' script spends half its runtime showing just how disastrous the loss of a Doctor/Donna team-up would be for planet Earth. The Doctor is killed under the Thames ("The Runaway Bride"), Martha Jones is asphyxiated when her hospital is transported to the moon ("Smith And Jones"), and the Titanic crashes into Buckingham Pa lace, obliterating London ("Voyage Of The Damned"), forcing the UK into a not-very-plausible post-apocalypse – where southern refugees cohabit with ethnic people in the north, before the government solves the crisis by shipping all "foreigners" to labour camps.
Donna wanders through this horrific parallel existence with numb, teary-eyed confusion – perturbed by the occasional appearances of a blonde woman, recognisable to audiences as Rose Tyler (Billie Piper). She's inexplicably found a way back to our universe (after the events of "Doomsday") and apparently has a plan to put events back into their original order – using The Doctor's unused, dying TARDIS...
"Turn Left" is enjoyable stuff, despite being incredibly dour and depressing for a good half-hour. RTD clearly likes looking at past events from a different vantage point (a trick he employed, briefly, in "Love & Monsters") -- but while it's generally fun and amusing, it's excessive here. Americans wiped out by the Adipose from "Partners In Crime", the world's ATMOS-powered cars going into meltdown (see: "The Sontaran Strategem"), there's barely a moment that isn't referencing past new Who, Torchwood (Ianto, Gwen and Captain Jack name-checked), and even Sarah-Jane Smith and her little gang bite the dust off-screen.
Away from the onanism of RTD's script, the basic idea behind Donna's bizarre situation eventually gets on-track and leads to a fairly exciting climax (via a makeshift time-machine, courtesy of UNIT) and a last-minute sting of recognition from The Doctor when a "two word" message from Rose is delivered – in an agreeable echo of season 1. However, the mechanics of the story turn to mush under the tiniest scrutiny, the return of Rose wasn't even explained, and it made no sense that Rose would know what's going on with Donna anyway – let alone how to rectify the situation!
So, suspension of disbelief is required and nitpickers will have a field day with the flaws in both narrative and time-travel logic. But, even so, "Turn Left" is punchy and entertaining on a basic level and Catherine Tate shoulders an entire Doctor-lite episode incredibly well. Despite the deficiencies in logic, Tate's driving force and reactions to the parallel universe created around her compensated brilliantly. Indeed, Tate's performance overshadowed the much-trumpeted return of Billie Piper – who gives a comparatively two-dimensional and bland performance. In her first scene finds Piper even seemed to have problems deciding on her right accent!
Overall, there's a lot to pick apart and take issue with, but "Turn Left" at least has a sense of pace and builds to a decent conclusion. The return of Rose was a damp squib, but I liked the creepy idea of an invisible parasite with the ability to change its host's personal history, and some of the many call-backs to old episodes (95% in the RTD back-catalogue) got the desired reaction. But, like "Utopia" last year, this seemed little more than a stretch and flex before the two-part finale starts next week...
The Good
1. Catherine Tate managed to make the sillier, weaker areas of the script work, through pure force of will and a reliable ability to bring any nonsense down to earth.
2. The weird creepiness of that time-altering bug was a strong sci-fi idea, if poorly thought out.
3. Some of the references and in-jokes worked very well, particularly the mention that Torchwood defeated the Sontarans in Donna's alternate existence.
The Bad
1. There was definitely an overload of references and in-jokes, and they became a little distracting. What made it worse was that referencing seemed to be the main purpose of half the episode – before the story really kicked in.
2. The apocalypse wasn't plausible, or especially well written. The sudden attempt to throw concentration camps into the story sat uneasily with the zany madness of everything else before – a crashlanding Titanic "replica" and aliens born from human fat, etc.
3. The return of Rose wasn't exciting, thrilling, and didn't get properly explained. She just appears from off-screen light shows. Her arrival also served to remind me how much Doctor Who has moved on since the days of Jackie, Mickey and Rose in their council flat. But I can understand RTD wanting to bring his tenure full circle in these last episodes.
4. The plot doesn't stand up to any scrutiny, if you have half a brain. In particular, that prophecy about Donna having "something on her back" in "The Fires Of Pompeii" doesn't make any sense now – as the version of Donna with the insect on her back wasn't the one who had adventures with The Doctor to Pompeii , and wherever else. That was the whole point!
The Geeky
1. The Doctor refers to "The Trickster", a character in The Sarah-Jane Adventures.
2. The Doctor can't regenerate if his death is too quick, implying he has to actively decide to regenerate (an idea backed up in season 3's "Last Of The Time Lords" when The Master refused to regenerate.)
3. In 1974 serial "Planet Of The Spiders", Sarah Jane Smith also had a giant, invisible attach itself to her back: a spider from Metebelis III.
4. Actress Chippo Chung (Fortune Teller) played Chantho in season 3's "Utopia".
Rating: 3.5 / 5.0
NEXT WEEK: "The Stolen Earth", part 1 of the big season finale! Rose! Red Daleks! Martha! Gwen! Ianto! Sarah-Jane! Captain Jack! Davros!
“Joedini” says:
Hey Herc
Just thought i'd send you a quick sum up of my thoughts of tonights Doctor Who 'Turn Left'.
Let me start by saying I am majorly excited by the episode I have just seen, loved it, want to watch again and it's just finished, sure sign of a good episode. BUT I am not convinced that the episode was as good as I think it was, there is a good chance the ending made it seem all the better, and the trailer for next weeks was SO good it made my head spin. More on that later.
The episode itself used a good old tried and tested sci fi story, the "what if" story and it uses it well. Basically Donna is sent back in time by a "trickster type monster" that lives on her back and causes the world to change around her, answering the "somethings on your back" mystery that was set up in 'The Fires of Pompei'. Donna makes a split second decision that prevents her meeting the Doctor. Seeing what happens to Earth just by turning right instead of left is an interesting watch. Turns out we should really think these little decisions through, because of this, our beloved Doctor dies by drowning under the Thames at Christmas (Donna told him to leave in 'The Runaway Bride').
And so, all the attacks on Earth that the Doctor thwarted go horribly wrong for mankind. A giant hospital is taken to the moon and returns with all but one dead, Martha is'nt the all but one. Sarah Jane also ended up in said hospital and lost her life. The Titanic crashes into London, killing thousands, America is overrun by blobs of fat that kill people. Part of the fun here is that two of the silliest stories New Who has done are given a sense of severity that they lacked before. (for reference the scene with The Titanic just missing Buckingham Palace in 'Voyage Of The Damned' is one of my least favourite Who moments, I wanted to strangle RTD for including this) but now it seems a little more bearable, whether this was his intention or not remains to be seen. After all this, life isn't the same for anyone, Britain seems war torn and there is little hope left.
Throughout all this Rose Tyler pops up, offering ominous warnings to Donna before persuading her to join her. Having Billie Piper back is fantastic, she is a much more self assured Rose, a leader, almost like the Doctor himself and Piper plays this brilliantly. Once her and Donna join forces they go to an army base where Rose has somehow intiated herself into. She shows Donna the bug on her back and offers a way to do the good old fashioned reset, but Donna will die. While I said Pipers performance was brilliant, Tate's is far beyond brilliant. Through much of the episode we get the annoying shouty Donna that caused me dread her return when the news broke, but then towards the end we see the character that has caused me to eat my words and embrace her as one of the best companions the show has seen. The look on her face and tone of her voice when she see's the bug is heartbreaking to watch, as is the look of horror on her face when Rose tells her that she WILL die.
And so using the newly built time machine Rose and her companions have constructed, they send Donna back in time to make sure she turns left. Here's my problem with the episode, the time machine seems so shoe'd in to finish the episode. I wasn't convinced for one second that they could have built this, even with a near dead Tardis sitting next to them, but I suppose the Doctor couldn't stay dead so off goes Donna. And here's what I really liked about the epsiode, in order to save the world and make 'Normal Donna' turn left, 'future Donna' throws herself in front of a lorry to cause a traffic jam that will prevent 'Normal Donna' turning right. A truly shocking moment especially for tea time tv, and Donna does indeed die, not before Rose can whisper two words in her ear.
Luckily though dead Donna is very much alive Donna when she awakes back in an alien world with a dead bug laying on the floor. all back to normal then, in comes the Doctor and all is happy. Until she describes Rose to him and utters the words Bad Wolf causing The Doctor to panic, run outside and see the words ' Bad Wolf' EVREYWHERE! Even somehow on key parts of his Tardis, running inside we hear the Tardis' alarm bells are going, and according to the Doctor, it's the end of the universe!
Tennant was sorely missed in this episode, I know that was the point but I don't feel as if I have had my Doctor Who fix as he was barely involved in tonights happenings. This next Doctor better be good!
Shout out also to Bernard Cribbins as Donna's Grandfather, wonderful character, wonderful actor! Its about time we had an elderly companion right.....?
So yeah great episode, solid 8/10 but it seems a lot more 9/10 after that promo for next week. i said i'd talk about that didn't i? Ok! Just amazing, we saw everyone! The Doctor, Donna, Rose (with a big ass gun), Martha, Sarah Jane, Captain Jack, Gwen (you know the welsh one from Torchwood) (want to watch it again to see if I missed anyone, didn't catch Mickey) we heard a Dalek, we got a tiny sense of how incredible the next two epsiodes are going to be.
I swear, I thought only Lost could get me this excited at finale time.
If you use this, call me Joedini, hope my review was even mildly interesting :-) Keep up the good work over at aicn
“Wilftonville” says:
After last week gave us a Doctor-filled adventure, this week we’re presented with a ‘what-if’ type story featuring Donna Noble. After the Doctor and Donna touch down in a quaint market-place, Donna is taken in by a dodgy fortune-teller woman with an odd accent, who promptly attaches a weird bug to our heroine which transports her back to a time before she hadn’t met the Doctor, and inspires her to take a different path through life that bypasses him entirely. What follows is a dystopian vision of Britain – with no Donna to save him, the Doctor dies during that Christmas special two years ago and things go from bad to worse very quickly.
And much of the episode is very effective. Catherine Tate is on good form here, as we see her character go through subtle changes as she turns from shrewish good-for-nothing to a more worthy, intelligent person. Tate is very adept at conveying this slow growth of her character - although unusually enough, the majority of her comedic scenes are botched. No worries, though, because Tate is a much more effective dramatic actor than a comedic one when it comes to Who, so it’s nice to see her stretch her ability. With no David Tennant around, the show does seem wobbly, but Russell T Davies’ script compensates by incorporating this into the proceedings. As time goes on we see all the different events from season 3-onward come to fruition without the Doctor, none of which end particularly well for us. The absence of Tennant is fantastically put together, and shows how needed the Doctor is for earth, and for the show.
It’s much better to witness his absence than to suffer through all the messiah parallels that Davies’ seems to have put into the script. Yes, it's true, we get a fair few scenes here proclaiming the Doctor as the best thing ever, and they get quite annoying. But at the same time it’s nice to see names we’re familiar with spring up from time to time – Torchwood get a mention, and it’s nice to see they’ve finally started doing proper missions instead of constructing elaborate love-triangles with one another. One character who comes into the breach to help Tate is none other than... I won’t name her, the show doesn’t, but she’s back and she’s oddly poor in the role. Was it just me, or has she got some kind of bizarre lisp during this episode? I certainly don’t remember noticing that before, and perhaps she’s had it all belong. In any case, she sounds strange and she doesn’t seem able to convey the emotions that her character should have. This could be done intentionally, to cover what’s been happening to her and will all be explained later, but… I’m a little worried. I hope it gets better.
Russell T has got a nice story here, and while in most cases a ‘what if’ merely provides a chance to kill off the supporting cast, here he uses it as a way to expand on them instead. Donna’s family are prominent for most of the story, and Bernard Cribbins again steals as much of the show as he can with his unflashy yet gripping acting style. We also see a little more of Donna’s mother, who slowly becomes more and more depressed as things go on. Both of them are fantastic, and it feels realistic – it provides a solid base for the story (and Tate) to work against. There are a few quibbles, however – Russell T Davies seems to think that Yorkshire hasn’t changed for the past fifty years. As a Yorkshireman myself, it was odd to see the Yorkshire from Monty Python’s ‘The Meaning Of Life’ film being portrayed as reality. That bugged me. Also, everything remains completely cryptic, with no explanation offered for several parts of the story (including who the fortune teller is).
That aside, this is a good episode, well-written and entertaining, and it sets up the remaining two fairly well.
Rating: B+.
Next week: The Universe calls upon Gwen, Ianto, Jack, Martha, Rose, Sarah-Jane and Donna to save it. Oh, and the Doctor might appear too.
“Jastersdad” says:
Here is another spoiler-free, detail-free, synopsis-free but not opinion-free review of tonight's Doctor Who.
Well.. deep breath... it's a corker in many ways. Very difficult to review, I think. It's a time-travel/alternate-future story which is effectively a gigantic set-up for the season two-parter finale. The much-heralded return of Rose and the complete absence of The Doctor until the last five minutes make this a companion's story. Donna is the focus and Catherine Tate does her best work here, for sure. I've never been a supporter of Donna and she still gets her mouthy moments here, unfortunately. What I wasn't prepared for though, was her dramatic head-to-heads with Billie Piper making it obvious what a better actress she is.
I don't know what's happened to Rose since she's been gone. Or was she always like that and we were so bowled over by new Who that we didn't notice? Or....to complicate matters even further (and I need to sidetrack).....is it not Piper's fault at all but RTD's vision of the character? I say this because a period drama starring Piper aired directly after this. An adaptation of Philip Pullman's 'The Ruby in the Smoke' and she looks and acts totally different. She's really rather good. But Rose vs. Donna does not come off well for our old heroine, as they're essentially playing the same type of character but different generations.
The direction is good, as you'd expect from Graeme Harper, and Gold's music is the best it's ever been, in my view. There is good stuff with Unit and other supporting characters (Cribbins returns). We sorely miss The Doctor, though, in a way we didn't as much in the superior 'Blink'. So when the Tardis appears at last, there's a real kick. This is Who after all! And when Tennant arrives he saves the show as well as the Universe. Well.....he will. We know.
There's all sorts of events from previous stories in the four series. Enough to send fans away palpitating and remind us of the old X-Files term 'mytharc'. It's all here bar the regenerations or other Doctors. Sarah Jane, Martha, Daleks (in the teaser), Sontaarans, Xmas references galore. Next week looks set to trump even this! Oh....and there's everyone from Torchwood coming, too.
Oh, and Davies pulls a really bad tease on the audience, suggesting 70s Doctor Who villains but in the end it's only an homage. That man's got some nerve! Fair play.
So it's really impossible to judge as a single episode. I liked it a lot and would give it 8 out of 10, losing two points only because of the absence of the Doc and the reliance on Eastender companions. Hurry up Sarah-Jane....the series needs you!
“The Handsome 12th Doctor” says:
Crikey. That was a headfuck of an episode. Especially that ending. What the hell happened there? I can't work it out at all but I know I liked it.
It feels good to be liking the show again. The funny thing is, even though I didn't really enjoy last weeks I would pair it together as a cool companion piece with tonight's ep. Because where last week's story showed that the Doctor doesn't always manage to save the day, tonight they showed the opposite side. That being if we didn't have him then the world, the universe even, would all go to shit.
It took the simple idea of fate, the idea that if we were to turn right instead of left at a given moment, then that can have repercussions somewhere down the line. In this case massive consequences. End of the universe type stuff.
This fate of the universe hinged completely on Donna. And so Catherine Tate had to virtually carry the episode on her own. I thought she was absolutely wondrous. There can't be many Taters left out there now can there?
Now ok, Tate wasn't completely on her own. Tonight saw the return of......... can I say it? Well, she WAS on the front cover of every tv mag this week, so yeah I think I can. Rose Rose Rose Rose. Rosey Rose. Rose Rose. Rose.
I like Rose.
Yeah she was back and it was groovy. Although her voice seemed kinda weird. And Bernard Cribbins was back which I loved too. The bit about the labour camps was perhaps a tad over-forced piece of social commentary, but damn if Cribbins didn't make that very emotional. God bless you sir!
The thing I had the most fun with was trying to figure out what should come next. Remembering the order of events in past stories, so that I could work out "Oh, that's going to happen now isn't it"
It was all really well thought out and plotted by RTD. And director Graeme Harper did an excellent job of blending the newly shot material with the few recycled clips.
This definitely wasn't an episode for attracting new fans. You'd need to have watched Who since it returned in 2005 to fully appreciate what was going on.
I'm keen to see how RTD explains himself out of that ending though. And with you-know-who back (plus literally everyone else and their mothers, judging by the trailer) then it could shape up to be an insanely grand finale.
“Kelvington” says:
We all knew this was coming, it's all happened before and it will all happen again... wait a moment, I think that's BSG. Every year for the last few, we have been presented with a Doctor-less or Doctor-lite episode. Some better than others, just like Star Wars movies. So this evening we were presented with the latest one, "Turn Left" written by Russel T. Davis. It's a very simple concept, what if you turned right instead of left. What if, you didn't meet the Doctor but instead had a normal life, and what if, the Doctor had died.
The episode opens in Chinatown (on some planet), and Donna is getting her future told, and she actually flashes back to her temp job. This is not unlike using a penny to go back in time. So after a little insect interaction Donna turn's right and, right away from her future with the Doctor.
Alternate reality shows are tough to do, but they do present an amazing opportunity to see life in a new way. In this reality Donna never met up with the Doctor, and he ends up very dead after dealing with the Racnos. Of course, without Donna one has to wonder how he was drawn to the Racnos to try and stop them, but that's a quibble best left for the forums. Personally, I think the TARDIS is the main guiding force of the show, taking the Doctor where he needs to be.
Once the Doctor is dead, we are presented with a new time line of events. Now a ton of money was spent on this show and for a show aimed at kids, the writing is definitely not, it was in fact top notch, you have to pay attention to know all of references, in order to get everything that's going on, from people we've met who have died, to different shots from plots we have memorized. This is a lot like the "Deep Space Nine" episode where they go back and deal with tribbles from a different perspective.
Rose comes and goes, and there is definitely SOMETHING wrong with her mouth, something about her upper teeth, I can't say what, but there is something wrong with them, and Martha and Sara Jane are both mentioned. So are the kids from The Sara Jane Adventures. One of the best things about this show is the ability to reuse old "Doctor Who" news footage created for the series in new ways, and adding to it, although the Titanic bit was definitely a cheat.
Life is not good without the Doctor, in a very WWII sort of way, in very short order Davis shows us just how bad, bad can get. This episode has a lot of scope for a fifty minute show. Yet it's incredibly intimate. Personally the only weak bit in the episode is the creature on Donna's back.
In the end, I loved this episode, while it won't ever be as good as Blink, simply because of Sally Sparrow, yes I love Sally Sparrow, so sue me. This will remembered for a long time, and analyzed a lot more than "Blink", there are so many twists and turns here, nods and homages, that I think we will be watching this long after the season comes to an end, and it will certainly give us something to do next year, while we are missing our favorite time traveler.
Just my 2¢
“dj bollocks” says:
We start in Asia - and we flashback to The Runaway Bride and the fate of Donna Noble...
"What if you turned right, what then.... What if you could still turn right ? Turn right and change the world !"
We move to Christmas Eve - something's on Donna's shoulder and we see the Racnaros ship...
"There's something on your back...."
And then we see the dead Doctor...
"Must have happened too fast for him to regenerate"
Then we meet Rose
"This is wrong... This is so wrong...."
Alternate universe already ?
We see Donna getting sacked the day that the Doctor was supposed to meet Martha - but there was only one survivor and it wasn't Ms Jones.... and then later we hear the same survivor tell a story about Sarah Jane Smith - how she was involved in the hospital and was a survivor after all...
Donna and Rose meet again...
"I just catch them sometimes staring at my back..."
So we move to Christmas when the Doctor should have been helping Kylie on the HMS Titanic and instead it crashes into Buckingham Palace - boom mushroom cloud of London.... London and the South of England ravaged by radiation - and the Noble family are relocated to Leeds... to share a house with about 25 other people..
Then we arrive in Season 4 - the fat loving aliens from episode 1 have ravaged America who were going to help rebuild the UK after the Titanic disaster...
"We're just no one Donna - we don't exist..."
After a rousing chorus of Bohemian Rhapsody we encounter shooting and the UNIT vehicles being taken over by their Amos devices......
Donna and Rose meet again - and Rose explains the change of fate...
"I've been pulled across.... it's coming.... The Darkness"
I believe in a a thing called love ?
"Sorry, I'm so sorry... but when you come with me you're gonna die..."
We now have some sort of Nazi comparison where the immigrants are taken away to 'camps' and the moment of truth arrives when Wilf and Donna notice that the stars start disappearing...
"Oh my God Donna, The Stars are going out...."
"I'm ready"
A quick trip to wherever Rose was coming from and we're at a version of UNIT where the Tardis has been recovered from under the Thames Barrier....
A scarab backpack then ?
"It feeds off time..."
So Donna is hurtled back into the flux point
"If I change things I don't die...."
"I'm sorry"
Time for a four minute, half mile... where Donna has to sacrifice herself to fix the timeline...
"Tell him this... two words...."
And we're back in the fortune teller's where the beetle has detached and Donna is alive.... Everything appears to be normal and Donna tries to recollect her experience...
"Sometimes I think there's way too much coincidence around you Donna"
And then she remembers the two words that the unnamed Rose Tyler had said to her just before she died...
Two words....
"Bad Wolf"
"It's the end of the universe"
Well - let's see if we can outrage the heterosexuals this week... *jokes*
It's difficult not to discuss this week's episode without serious spoilage so move on - but one presumes you've seen it already.... So let's continue...
RTD - much maligned has certainly created an extraordinary set up here - and this is the primary frustration is just how hit and miss he can be. Graeme Harper's direction helps but he really is working with gold on this episode anyway. It's a fanboy's wankfest - any chance of that being the co-ax headline Herc ? God by the looks of who's turning up in next week's episode he might even be able to explain why Gwen from Torchwood was in World War Two and why Martha Jones was working for Torchwood at Canary Wharf - yes I know it wasn't them....
Yes - shame about the time beetle - which looks like it wouldn't have been out of place in 1976 - and a nice little reference to the Trickster a Sara Jane Adventures character... If the reported 'reset' is fast approaching then so long as we don't have the Doctor turning into a budgie then count me in... Fantastic - dare I say it but so far - Moff this is what you've got to live up to ?
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Writer: Russell T. Davies
Director: Graeme Harper
Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna Noble), Billie Piper (Rose Tyler), Bernard Chibbins (Gramps), Jacqueline King (Sylvia Noble), Chippo Chung (Fortune Teller), Joseph Long (Rocco Colasanto), Noma Dumzwemi (Captain Magambo), Suzann McLean (Veena Brady), Marcia Lecky (Mooky Kahari), Natalie Walter (Alice Coltrane), Bhaskar Patel (Jival Chowdry), Loraine Velez (Spanish Maid), Clive Standen (Private Harris), Sanchia McCormack (Housing Officer), Terri-Ann Burmby (Woman In Doorway), Paul Richard Biggin (Soldier #2), Neil Clench (Man In Pub), Lawrence Stevenson (Soldier #1), Catherine York (Female Reporter), Lachele Carl (Trinity Wells)
Russell T. Davies writes himself a big love letter with "Turn Left", cramming the episode with winks, nods and sideways looks at his lynchpin episodes that have informed Doctor Who these past 3 years. We begin on the alien planet of Shan Shen (an intergalactic Chinatown , based on the décor), where The Doctor (David Tennant) has fun bartering with locals and Donna (Catherine Tate) is persuaded to visit a Fortune Teller (Chippo Chung). The Fortune Teller's true intentions are revealed when a giant beetle-like insects attaches itself to Donna's back and somehow manipulates her personal history – making Donna turn right at a road junction (heading to a £20,000 new job) instead of left.
This simple decision alters established history, butterfly effect-style, meaning Donna never meets The Doctor (see: "The Runaway Bride") and consequently Davies' script spends half its runtime showing just how disastrous the loss of a Doctor/Donna team-up would be for planet Earth. The Doctor is killed under the Thames ("The Runaway Bride"), Martha Jones is asphyxiated when her hospital is transported to the moon ("Smith And Jones"), and the Titanic crashes into Buckingham Pa lace, obliterating London ("Voyage Of The Damned"), forcing the UK into a not-very-plausible post-apocalypse – where southern refugees cohabit with ethnic people in the north, before the government solves the crisis by shipping all "foreigners" to labour camps.
Donna wanders through this horrific parallel existence with numb, teary-eyed confusion – perturbed by the occasional appearances of a blonde woman, recognisable to audiences as Rose Tyler (Billie Piper). She's inexplicably found a way back to our universe (after the events of "Doomsday") and apparently has a plan to put events back into their original order – using The Doctor's unused, dying TARDIS...
"Turn Left" is enjoyable stuff, despite being incredibly dour and depressing for a good half-hour. RTD clearly likes looking at past events from a different vantage point (a trick he employed, briefly, in "Love & Monsters") -- but while it's generally fun and amusing, it's excessive here. Americans wiped out by the Adipose from "Partners In Crime", the world's ATMOS-powered cars going into meltdown (see: "The Sontaran Strategem"), there's barely a moment that isn't referencing past new Who, Torchwood (Ianto, Gwen and Captain Jack name-checked), and even Sarah-Jane Smith and her little gang bite the dust off-screen.
Away from the onanism of RTD's script, the basic idea behind Donna's bizarre situation eventually gets on-track and leads to a fairly exciting climax (via a makeshift time-machine, courtesy of UNIT) and a last-minute sting of recognition from The Doctor when a "two word" message from Rose is delivered – in an agreeable echo of season 1. However, the mechanics of the story turn to mush under the tiniest scrutiny, the return of Rose wasn't even explained, and it made no sense that Rose would know what's going on with Donna anyway – let alone how to rectify the situation!
So, suspension of disbelief is required and nitpickers will have a field day with the flaws in both narrative and time-travel logic. But, even so, "Turn Left" is punchy and entertaining on a basic level and Catherine Tate shoulders an entire Doctor-lite episode incredibly well. Despite the deficiencies in logic, Tate's driving force and reactions to the parallel universe created around her compensated brilliantly. Indeed, Tate's performance overshadowed the much-trumpeted return of Billie Piper – who gives a comparatively two-dimensional and bland performance. In her first scene finds Piper even seemed to have problems deciding on her right accent!
Overall, there's a lot to pick apart and take issue with, but "Turn Left" at least has a sense of pace and builds to a decent conclusion. The return of Rose was a damp squib, but I liked the creepy idea of an invisible parasite with the ability to change its host's personal history, and some of the many call-backs to old episodes (95% in the RTD back-catalogue) got the desired reaction. But, like "Utopia" last year, this seemed little more than a stretch and flex before the two-part finale starts next week...
The Good
1. Catherine Tate managed to make the sillier, weaker areas of the script work, through pure force of will and a reliable ability to bring any nonsense down to earth.
2. The weird creepiness of that time-altering bug was a strong sci-fi idea, if poorly thought out.
3. Some of the references and in-jokes worked very well, particularly the mention that Torchwood defeated the Sontarans in Donna's alternate existence.
The Bad
1. There was definitely an overload of references and in-jokes, and they became a little distracting. What made it worse was that referencing seemed to be the main purpose of half the episode – before the story really kicked in.
2. The apocalypse wasn't plausible, or especially well written. The sudden attempt to throw concentration camps into the story sat uneasily with the zany madness of everything else before – a crashlanding Titanic "replica" and aliens born from human fat, etc.
3. The return of Rose wasn't exciting, thrilling, and didn't get properly explained. She just appears from off-screen light shows. Her arrival also served to remind me how much Doctor Who has moved on since the days of Jackie, Mickey and Rose in their council flat. But I can understand RTD wanting to bring his tenure full circle in these last episodes.
4. The plot doesn't stand up to any scrutiny, if you have half a brain. In particular, that prophecy about Donna having "something on her back" in "The Fires Of Pompeii" doesn't make any sense now – as the version of Donna with the insect on her back wasn't the one who had adventures with The Doctor to Pompeii , and wherever else. That was the whole point!
The Geeky
1. The Doctor refers to "The Trickster", a character in The Sarah-Jane Adventures.
2. The Doctor can't regenerate if his death is too quick, implying he has to actively decide to regenerate (an idea backed up in season 3's "Last Of The Time Lords" when The Master refused to regenerate.)
3. In 1974 serial "Planet Of The Spiders", Sarah Jane Smith also had a giant, invisible attach itself to her back: a spider from Metebelis III.
4. Actress Chippo Chung (Fortune Teller) played Chantho in season 3's "Utopia".
Rating: 3.5 / 5.0
NEXT WEEK: "The Stolen Earth", part 1 of the big season finale! Rose! Red Daleks! Martha! Gwen! Ianto! Sarah-Jane! Captain Jack! Davros!
Just thought i'd send you a quick sum up of my thoughts of tonights Doctor Who 'Turn Left'.
Let me start by saying I am majorly excited by the episode I have just seen, loved it, want to watch again and it's just finished, sure sign of a good episode. BUT I am not convinced that the episode was as good as I think it was, there is a good chance the ending made it seem all the better, and the trailer for next weeks was SO good it made my head spin. More on that later.
The episode itself used a good old tried and tested sci fi story, the "what if" story and it uses it well. Basically Donna is sent back in time by a "trickster type monster" that lives on her back and causes the world to change around her, answering the "somethings on your back" mystery that was set up in 'The Fires of Pompei'. Donna makes a split second decision that prevents her meeting the Doctor. Seeing what happens to Earth just by turning right instead of left is an interesting watch. Turns out we should really think these little decisions through, because of this, our beloved Doctor dies by drowning under the Thames at Christmas (Donna told him to leave in 'The Runaway Bride').
And so, all the attacks on Earth that the Doctor thwarted go horribly wrong for mankind. A giant hospital is taken to the moon and returns with all but one dead, Martha is'nt the all but one. Sarah Jane also ended up in said hospital and lost her life. The Titanic crashes into London, killing thousands, America is overrun by blobs of fat that kill people. Part of the fun here is that two of the silliest stories New Who has done are given a sense of severity that they lacked before. (for reference the scene with The Titanic just missing Buckingham Palace in 'Voyage Of The Damned' is one of my least favourite Who moments, I wanted to strangle RTD for including this) but now it seems a little more bearable, whether this was his intention or not remains to be seen. After all this, life isn't the same for anyone, Britain seems war torn and there is little hope left.
Throughout all this Rose Tyler pops up, offering ominous warnings to Donna before persuading her to join her. Having Billie Piper back is fantastic, she is a much more self assured Rose, a leader, almost like the Doctor himself and Piper plays this brilliantly. Once her and Donna join forces they go to an army base where Rose has somehow intiated herself into. She shows Donna the bug on her back and offers a way to do the good old fashioned reset, but Donna will die. While I said Pipers performance was brilliant, Tate's is far beyond brilliant. Through much of the episode we get the annoying shouty Donna that caused me dread her return when the news broke, but then towards the end we see the character that has caused me to eat my words and embrace her as one of the best companions the show has seen. The look on her face and tone of her voice when she see's the bug is heartbreaking to watch, as is the look of horror on her face when Rose tells her that she WILL die.
And so using the newly built time machine Rose and her companions have constructed, they send Donna back in time to make sure she turns left. Here's my problem with the episode, the time machine seems so shoe'd in to finish the episode. I wasn't convinced for one second that they could have built this, even with a near dead Tardis sitting next to them, but I suppose the Doctor couldn't stay dead so off goes Donna. And here's what I really liked about the epsiode, in order to save the world and make 'Normal Donna' turn left, 'future Donna' throws herself in front of a lorry to cause a traffic jam that will prevent 'Normal Donna' turning right. A truly shocking moment especially for tea time tv, and Donna does indeed die, not before Rose can whisper two words in her ear.
Luckily though dead Donna is very much alive Donna when she awakes back in an alien world with a dead bug laying on the floor. all back to normal then, in comes the Doctor and all is happy. Until she describes Rose to him and utters the words Bad Wolf causing The Doctor to panic, run outside and see the words ' Bad Wolf' EVREYWHERE! Even somehow on key parts of his Tardis, running inside we hear the Tardis' alarm bells are going, and according to the Doctor, it's the end of the universe!
Tennant was sorely missed in this episode, I know that was the point but I don't feel as if I have had my Doctor Who fix as he was barely involved in tonights happenings. This next Doctor better be good!
Shout out also to Bernard Cribbins as Donna's Grandfather, wonderful character, wonderful actor! Its about time we had an elderly companion right.....?
So yeah great episode, solid 8/10 but it seems a lot more 9/10 after that promo for next week. i said i'd talk about that didn't i? Ok! Just amazing, we saw everyone! The Doctor, Donna, Rose (with a big ass gun), Martha, Sarah Jane, Captain Jack, Gwen (you know the welsh one from Torchwood) (want to watch it again to see if I missed anyone, didn't catch Mickey) we heard a Dalek, we got a tiny sense of how incredible the next two epsiodes are going to be.
I swear, I thought only Lost could get me this excited at finale time.
If you use this, call me Joedini, hope my review was even mildly interesting :-) Keep up the good work over at aicn
And much of the episode is very effective. Catherine Tate is on good form here, as we see her character go through subtle changes as she turns from shrewish good-for-nothing to a more worthy, intelligent person. Tate is very adept at conveying this slow growth of her character - although unusually enough, the majority of her comedic scenes are botched. No worries, though, because Tate is a much more effective dramatic actor than a comedic one when it comes to Who, so it’s nice to see her stretch her ability. With no David Tennant around, the show does seem wobbly, but Russell T Davies’ script compensates by incorporating this into the proceedings. As time goes on we see all the different events from season 3-onward come to fruition without the Doctor, none of which end particularly well for us. The absence of Tennant is fantastically put together, and shows how needed the Doctor is for earth, and for the show.
It’s much better to witness his absence than to suffer through all the messiah parallels that Davies’ seems to have put into the script. Yes, it's true, we get a fair few scenes here proclaiming the Doctor as the best thing ever, and they get quite annoying. But at the same time it’s nice to see names we’re familiar with spring up from time to time – Torchwood get a mention, and it’s nice to see they’ve finally started doing proper missions instead of constructing elaborate love-triangles with one another. One character who comes into the breach to help Tate is none other than... I won’t name her, the show doesn’t, but she’s back and she’s oddly poor in the role. Was it just me, or has she got some kind of bizarre lisp during this episode? I certainly don’t remember noticing that before, and perhaps she’s had it all belong. In any case, she sounds strange and she doesn’t seem able to convey the emotions that her character should have. This could be done intentionally, to cover what’s been happening to her and will all be explained later, but… I’m a little worried. I hope it gets better.
Russell T has got a nice story here, and while in most cases a ‘what if’ merely provides a chance to kill off the supporting cast, here he uses it as a way to expand on them instead. Donna’s family are prominent for most of the story, and Bernard Cribbins again steals as much of the show as he can with his unflashy yet gripping acting style. We also see a little more of Donna’s mother, who slowly becomes more and more depressed as things go on. Both of them are fantastic, and it feels realistic – it provides a solid base for the story (and Tate) to work against. There are a few quibbles, however – Russell T Davies seems to think that Yorkshire hasn’t changed for the past fifty years. As a Yorkshireman myself, it was odd to see the Yorkshire from Monty Python’s ‘The Meaning Of Life’ film being portrayed as reality. That bugged me. Also, everything remains completely cryptic, with no explanation offered for several parts of the story (including who the fortune teller is).
That aside, this is a good episode, well-written and entertaining, and it sets up the remaining two fairly well.
Rating: B+.
Next week: The Universe calls upon Gwen, Ianto, Jack, Martha, Rose, Sarah-Jane and Donna to save it. Oh, and the Doctor might appear too.
Well.. deep breath... it's a corker in many ways. Very difficult to review, I think. It's a time-travel/alternate-future story which is effectively a gigantic set-up for the season two-parter finale. The much-heralded return of Rose and the complete absence of The Doctor until the last five minutes make this a companion's story. Donna is the focus and Catherine Tate does her best work here, for sure. I've never been a supporter of Donna and she still gets her mouthy moments here, unfortunately. What I wasn't prepared for though, was her dramatic head-to-heads with Billie Piper making it obvious what a better actress she is.
I don't know what's happened to Rose since she's been gone. Or was she always like that and we were so bowled over by new Who that we didn't notice? Or....to complicate matters even further (and I need to sidetrack).....is it not Piper's fault at all but RTD's vision of the character? I say this because a period drama starring Piper aired directly after this. An adaptation of Philip Pullman's 'The Ruby in the Smoke' and she looks and acts totally different. She's really rather good. But Rose vs. Donna does not come off well for our old heroine, as they're essentially playing the same type of character but different generations.
The direction is good, as you'd expect from Graeme Harper, and Gold's music is the best it's ever been, in my view. There is good stuff with Unit and other supporting characters (Cribbins returns). We sorely miss The Doctor, though, in a way we didn't as much in the superior 'Blink'. So when the Tardis appears at last, there's a real kick. This is Who after all! And when Tennant arrives he saves the show as well as the Universe. Well.....he will. We know.
There's all sorts of events from previous stories in the four series. Enough to send fans away palpitating and remind us of the old X-Files term 'mytharc'. It's all here bar the regenerations or other Doctors. Sarah Jane, Martha, Daleks (in the teaser), Sontaarans, Xmas references galore. Next week looks set to trump even this! Oh....and there's everyone from Torchwood coming, too.
Oh, and Davies pulls a really bad tease on the audience, suggesting 70s Doctor Who villains but in the end it's only an homage. That man's got some nerve! Fair play.
So it's really impossible to judge as a single episode. I liked it a lot and would give it 8 out of 10, losing two points only because of the absence of the Doc and the reliance on Eastender companions. Hurry up Sarah-Jane....the series needs you!
It feels good to be liking the show again. The funny thing is, even though I didn't really enjoy last weeks I would pair it together as a cool companion piece with tonight's ep. Because where last week's story showed that the Doctor doesn't always manage to save the day, tonight they showed the opposite side. That being if we didn't have him then the world, the universe even, would all go to shit.
It took the simple idea of fate, the idea that if we were to turn right instead of left at a given moment, then that can have repercussions somewhere down the line. In this case massive consequences. End of the universe type stuff.
This fate of the universe hinged completely on Donna. And so Catherine Tate had to virtually carry the episode on her own. I thought she was absolutely wondrous. There can't be many Taters left out there now can there?
Now ok, Tate wasn't completely on her own. Tonight saw the return of......... can I say it? Well, she WAS on the front cover of every tv mag this week, so yeah I think I can. Rose Rose Rose Rose. Rosey Rose. Rose Rose. Rose.
I like Rose.
Yeah she was back and it was groovy. Although her voice seemed kinda weird. And Bernard Cribbins was back which I loved too. The bit about the labour camps was perhaps a tad over-forced piece of social commentary, but damn if Cribbins didn't make that very emotional. God bless you sir!
The thing I had the most fun with was trying to figure out what should come next. Remembering the order of events in past stories, so that I could work out "Oh, that's going to happen now isn't it"
It was all really well thought out and plotted by RTD. And director Graeme Harper did an excellent job of blending the newly shot material with the few recycled clips.
This definitely wasn't an episode for attracting new fans. You'd need to have watched Who since it returned in 2005 to fully appreciate what was going on.
I'm keen to see how RTD explains himself out of that ending though. And with you-know-who back (plus literally everyone else and their mothers, judging by the trailer) then it could shape up to be an insanely grand finale.
The episode opens in Chinatown (on some planet), and Donna is getting her future told, and she actually flashes back to her temp job. This is not unlike using a penny to go back in time. So after a little insect interaction Donna turn's right and, right away from her future with the Doctor.
Alternate reality shows are tough to do, but they do present an amazing opportunity to see life in a new way. In this reality Donna never met up with the Doctor, and he ends up very dead after dealing with the Racnos. Of course, without Donna one has to wonder how he was drawn to the Racnos to try and stop them, but that's a quibble best left for the forums. Personally, I think the TARDIS is the main guiding force of the show, taking the Doctor where he needs to be.
Once the Doctor is dead, we are presented with a new time line of events. Now a ton of money was spent on this show and for a show aimed at kids, the writing is definitely not, it was in fact top notch, you have to pay attention to know all of references, in order to get everything that's going on, from people we've met who have died, to different shots from plots we have memorized. This is a lot like the "Deep Space Nine" episode where they go back and deal with tribbles from a different perspective.
Rose comes and goes, and there is definitely SOMETHING wrong with her mouth, something about her upper teeth, I can't say what, but there is something wrong with them, and Martha and Sara Jane are both mentioned. So are the kids from The Sara Jane Adventures. One of the best things about this show is the ability to reuse old "Doctor Who" news footage created for the series in new ways, and adding to it, although the Titanic bit was definitely a cheat.
Life is not good without the Doctor, in a very WWII sort of way, in very short order Davis shows us just how bad, bad can get. This episode has a lot of scope for a fifty minute show. Yet it's incredibly intimate. Personally the only weak bit in the episode is the creature on Donna's back.
In the end, I loved this episode, while it won't ever be as good as Blink, simply because of Sally Sparrow, yes I love Sally Sparrow, so sue me. This will remembered for a long time, and analyzed a lot more than "Blink", there are so many twists and turns here, nods and homages, that I think we will be watching this long after the season comes to an end, and it will certainly give us something to do next year, while we are missing our favorite time traveler.
Just my 2¢
"What if you turned right, what then.... What if you could still turn right ? Turn right and change the world !"
We move to Christmas Eve - something's on Donna's shoulder and we see the Racnaros ship...
"There's something on your back...."
And then we see the dead Doctor...
"Must have happened too fast for him to regenerate"
Then we meet Rose
"This is wrong... This is so wrong...."
Alternate universe already ?
We see Donna getting sacked the day that the Doctor was supposed to meet Martha - but there was only one survivor and it wasn't Ms Jones.... and then later we hear the same survivor tell a story about Sarah Jane Smith - how she was involved in the hospital and was a survivor after all...
Donna and Rose meet again...
"I just catch them sometimes staring at my back..."
So we move to Christmas when the Doctor should have been helping Kylie on the HMS Titanic and instead it crashes into Buckingham Palace - boom mushroom cloud of London.... London and the South of England ravaged by radiation - and the Noble family are relocated to Leeds... to share a house with about 25 other people..
Then we arrive in Season 4 - the fat loving aliens from episode 1 have ravaged America who were going to help rebuild the UK after the Titanic disaster...
"We're just no one Donna - we don't exist..."
After a rousing chorus of Bohemian Rhapsody we encounter shooting and the UNIT vehicles being taken over by their Amos devices......
Donna and Rose meet again - and Rose explains the change of fate...
"I've been pulled across.... it's coming.... The Darkness"
I believe in a a thing called love ?
"Sorry, I'm so sorry... but when you come with me you're gonna die..."
We now have some sort of Nazi comparison where the immigrants are taken away to 'camps' and the moment of truth arrives when Wilf and Donna notice that the stars start disappearing...
"Oh my God Donna, The Stars are going out...."
"I'm ready"
A quick trip to wherever Rose was coming from and we're at a version of UNIT where the Tardis has been recovered from under the Thames Barrier....
A scarab backpack then ?
"It feeds off time..."
So Donna is hurtled back into the flux point
"If I change things I don't die...."
"I'm sorry"
Time for a four minute, half mile... where Donna has to sacrifice herself to fix the timeline...
"Tell him this... two words...."
And we're back in the fortune teller's where the beetle has detached and Donna is alive.... Everything appears to be normal and Donna tries to recollect her experience...
"Sometimes I think there's way too much coincidence around you Donna"
And then she remembers the two words that the unnamed Rose Tyler had said to her just before she died...
Two words....
"Bad Wolf"
"It's the end of the universe"
Well - let's see if we can outrage the heterosexuals this week... *jokes*
It's difficult not to discuss this week's episode without serious spoilage so move on - but one presumes you've seen it already.... So let's continue...
RTD - much maligned has certainly created an extraordinary set up here - and this is the primary frustration is just how hit and miss he can be. Graeme Harper's direction helps but he really is working with gold on this episode anyway. It's a fanboy's wankfest - any chance of that being the co-ax headline Herc ? God by the looks of who's turning up in next week's episode he might even be able to explain why Gwen from Torchwood was in World War Two and why Martha Jones was working for Torchwood at Canary Wharf - yes I know it wasn't them....
Yes - shame about the time beetle - which looks like it wouldn't have been out of place in 1976 - and a nice little reference to the Trickster a Sara Jane Adventures character... If the reported 'reset' is fast approaching then so long as we don't have the Doctor turning into a budgie then count me in... Fantastic - dare I say it but so far - Moff this is what you've got to live up to ?
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next week is too far away right now.
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rtd seems to be on roll at the minute. SPOILER AHEAD. that conversation between doc and donna at the end about how he's drawn to her. Is there something about her sne doesn't know? is she the final fifth?
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that should have read "something about her she doesn't know"
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very enjoyable in many ways. Certainly well played out by Catherine Tate. The idea of the stars going out gives a nice chill. Generally I think they've gone overboard on the self-referencing all season, and should have been a bit more subtle about Donna's demise, and the Medusa Cascade, but I am curious to see how they fit the disappearing bees in there heheh.
I like Billie Piper, thought she did a fantastic job in season 1 particularly and find her attractive in Secret Diary but her delivery and appearance seemed a bit...odd tonight. She looked far better in the after show follow up on BBC3 and she wore no make up on that. It looked like she was over enunciating every word on the show and since by her own admittance the character Rose is a chav it was a bit strange.
On the whole exploring the Sliding Doors element of things provided a solid backdrop to the episode. The preview to next week looked bombastic with every character under the sun appearing. However with the shots of millions of CGI ships it had echoes of in tone of the Master finales from Series 3, which doesn't inspire much hope in me because I found those to be all over the place... -
The AICN reviews, that is, but that's par for the course. As soon as "written by Russell T Davies" comes up you know the usual suspects aren't going to have much nice to say. This episode was great, the second RTD episode in a row that was pure class. Hopefully that bodes well for the two-parter, even if it does look from first glance to bear hallmarks to other Earth attack stories. Hopefully this episode has set the precedent for a much darker story arc. They really can't follow such a dark story as this one with a happy happy joy joy adventure. No Big Brother or Weakest Link robots, please. Donna seems destined to leave the show in a couple of weeks, and I'm going to miss her. I hope they give her a great Ripley-esque death.
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time to fire up that eztv.it
c ya in an hour. -
Did you see Bernard Cribbins and the Turkish bloke salute each other?! Obviously RTD was implying something had gone on between them!! Why can't he leave his gay propaganda out of it for once?! (Just pre-empting the usual BS, especially given last week's TB...)
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She sounded like she was breaking in a new set of false teeth!!! It really took me out of the episode, on Confidential afterward Billie said she had to watch lots of old eps to remind herself of the character-looks like she forgot what Rose SOUNDED like too-it was comical!!! Didn't realise she was sooo posh in real life either. Regarding the episode, all this talk of Donna being special, wonder if they are going to do a Master-like revelation, wonder if she has a fobwatch hidden away;-) They really seem to be throwing the kitchen sink into the last story-Hope RTD doesn't fuck this finale up like he did last one...
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has she begun morphing into a chipmunk on her parallel world. Thought the bbc3 show gave a decent enough explanation for how she can now traverse the previously un-traversable (?) borders between the universe/multiverse thingy
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Was it just me or was Rose Tyler channelling the voice of Naboo from the Mighty Boosh in this episode??
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would it be overkill to have the same gimmick a third time
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I wondered why Billie Piper ha developed a lisp. Great show tonight, looking forward to the conclusion next week.
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It is a shame Russel T. provokes such knee-jerk reaction with people
I'm not a big fan of some of his writing ability at times, and have certainly bitched about his style on some of his weaker tales but seeing him on set on the BBC3 show was fun. He had such childlike glee with the show, and talking about it with such passion.
I'm awaiting the reign of Moffat eagerly to see what he can add to the show, but also curious to see what Davis moves on to. -
and I sheem to be morphing into a horshe and ash shome people have sheen, I appear to be having problemsh with my teeth
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No one in their reviews mentioned the lesbianfest between Donna and Rose with Sarah Jane as the PVC clad dominatrix because it would count as a spoiler.... oops...
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he wants his teeth back
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(1) What the fuck IS Bad Wolf? I only saw that Gameshow episode of the first season, so assumed it was an evil media conglomerate - a pisstake of Fox. Was I wrong??
(2) What is the final fifth, Greenflashlight?
(3) Should someone actually start a campaign to persuade Moffatt to bring back Sally Sparrow?? -
sorry stanton. getting my 'almost at the end of series reveal references' mixed up. galactica ref. Bad wolf is the warning rose left for herself throughout time at end of S1. She knew doc would know something big was up. Count me in for sally. And jenny too.
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I'm not sure you read the reviews, as I actually said, I LOVED THE EPISODE, except for the issue with Rose's teeth. Not sure what's going on there.And yes we need to start something going for Sally Sparrow. Please dear god, give us Sally Sparrow.
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There were a lot of plot holes but I didn't care, this was immensely enjoyable.I was also really distracted by Roses teeth and lisp, I wonder what happened? She was in a period drama immediately afterwards and there was no sign of it.
Next week looks great but lets hope the glut of spinoff characters making a comeback isn't overwhelming.
BTW didn't half the Torchwood lot buy the farm in the series 2 finale? -
my nonsense speculation......rose has eaten the tardis and developed tardis like powers herself..
Donna Noble has an old fob watch somewhere. she's going to die and turn into river song.. thus being a dramatic reversal of the "we're not together" motif and the "you are going to die" motif from this season. -
Great big, bigger on the inside than on the outside, plot holes.
Dimensionally transcendental plot holes.
But if you can switch your brain off and not think about them, then an enjoyable little romp. -
This may be stretching it a bit but what if with Donna's "strange thing going on with alternate realities" RTD is finally tying up the whole Granddaughter Susan thing? I'd love if if Donna's Gramps really turned out to be Tom Campbell but that may be asking a bit much, especially when trying to squeeze in Peter Cushing as either a younger William Hartnell or a future incarnation of the Doctor. But what if Donna's mother had a connection to the Doctor somehow. We know her dad's name was Geoff but was Geoff her real dad? was Geoff more than he seemed? Does the Doctor's daughter from the earlier episode this season have something to do with it? One explanation would be that Peter Cushing's true granddaughter Susan is actually Donna's mum. Cushing, being a future incarnation, knew what he had to do to keep history correct and wiped Susan's memory, gave her to Tom Campbell who pretended to be her dad. They left to live in 1960's London where Susan, now calling herself Sylvia, gave birth to Donna, who grew up, only to become the Tenth Doctor's companion, little realising she was part timelady herself... oh well, it was worth a try.
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By that, I mean... It doesn't stretch THAT far. And it just don't fly. :)
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I wasn't the only one to notice the change in Rose's voice then. It seems to be a case of Billie Piper forgetting how she played her.It reminds me of a recent interview that Gillian Anderson did about the new X-Files film, where she said on the first two days of filming she was rubbish at playing Scully. Though in her favour it had been a 7 year gap, compared to Piper's 2.
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They stood out a mile!! I must say this was a better than average Dr Who written by RTD and it had Cribbens in it. In fact I really enjoyed it... well, apart from the plastic beetle and Piper's gnashers. Is it that she's really morphing into the Big Bad Wolf? Could that be the big twist? I'm going to watch it again... which translates to: I enjoyed it... and to watch next week's teaser again.
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It can't be that she had 'forgotten' how to play Rose.
"Hey, I can't remember how I played the biggest character in my career! What do I do? Oh yes, instead of rewatching previous episodes I'll just go out there and start talking with a lisp, whilst pretending that Old Desu from Old Boy has had at my gnashers with his trusty pliers" -
but yeah, Billie's teeth seemed to have grown and she had an odd lisp, I would complain about the beetle but a Dr Who fan complaining about the FX seems, to me, to be a very petulant. Roll on next week!!
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after last weeks so-so episode the show is back to it's best, RTD's best written episode...next week..the leader of the kaleds returns.....
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Rose has new teeth?? Heard that before? Could Rose really be a regenerated version of a future Doctor??
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I've just watched the Confidential show on IPlayer. I agree with the person above who said that Billie Piper looked better there without the make-up. She looked like a completely different, yet hotter, chick.
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Really good in fact. I just adore Donna's grandpa. What a great character. And seeing Rose again was great. Bring on next week!!
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By that I mean I have missed out most of season 4. But that was great tv. I loved the way in one ep it recapped what had happened in season 4 and thy way it tied in Torchwood. Torchwood is moving to bbc one. Where it will be shown 5 days a week. Great ep. next week looks like RTD is going out with a bang. When Donna's family are being relocated. Bernard Cribbins says. its happening all over again. What did he mean by that.
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be trying to break hollywood. You need your teeth straightened if you want to work in LA.
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role in one of the Dalek movies.
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Fortune teller says: you are very strong. What are u going to be?
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he's referencing WW2 in my closest estimation. The relocation of people based on race, etc? Because that is what's happening in that scene and he is a ww2 vet.
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becomes the new time goddess ala rose. and sends the daleks packing...
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What/Who/Why is Donna...cause she's something...more than human. The coincidences, the alternate realities, the strength, the "Temp Workers" knowledge of everything she needs to get (she learnt major Library systems in a day...I'm not saying that's out of possibility but I'm sure it takes longer than that). So What Is Donna Noble...answers on a postcard please, to the usual place
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... and transport her to Rose's alternative universe. Remember what the Doctor said about a "big parallel world created around her"?
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I'm wondering if Billie had botox or something else rather than a problem with her usually ok teeth. The lisp seemed to calm down later in the episode but that was weird. I did wonder/hope that billie and catherine were about to lez up in the tardis for a second but twas not to be. RTD's writing has stayed on the adult mostly this season so I hope he doesn't fuck up the finale too much like he did with the climax last season. Was the fortune teller the chick that took the masters ring? Maybe someone could enlighten me. Anyway hopefully next week the rumours about the doctor kissing jack tenderly are true and the pinheads can get all annoyed again. Also anyone heard these rumours about the guy who played will scarlet in the bbc robin hood is the next doctor. Is he any good.
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Fantastic really enjoyed it. Billie Piper had something mental going on with her mouth. Next week looks amazing. Can't wait
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I'm wondering if Billie had botox or something else rather than a problem with her usually ok teeth. The lisp seemed to calm down later in the episode but that was weird. I did wonder/hope that billie and catherine were about to lez up in the tardis for a second but twas not to be. RTD's writing has stayed on the adult mostly this season so I hope he doesn't fuck up the finale too much like he did with the climax last season. Was the fortune teller the chick that took the masters ring? Maybe someone could enlighten me. Anyway hopefully next week the rumours about the doctor kissing jack tenderly are true and the pinheads can get all annoyed again. Also anyone heard these rumours about the guy who played will scarlet in the bbc robin hood is the next doctor. Is he any good.
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He's a fine actor but that rumour would be completely unfounded. Mainly due to him having been in Doctor Who last year playing a baddie.
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There are three actors on the shortlist for the NEW WHO
John Simm: totally shit.
Sorry but this guy can't act and is totally full of himself. Also he was The Master so surely fucking not??
Harry Lloyd: this guy was Will Scarlett in the new Robin Hood. Also he was the main guy out of the family of blood episode so again, I can't see it
Aiden Gillen: Tommy Carcetti from The Wire
Now this I can see: he has the RTD pedigree, so I can see him being slipped in there (ahem) as a parting shot; he's young/handsome enough that he could carry off the part and he has the acting chops to boot.
Incidentally I actually laughed twice during this episode, despite disliking Catherine Tate - the line about "I'd leave the mouse mat but you might cut yourself on it" and als the bit where she was like "Oi Vera Duckworth, go back and feed your whippets". Trust me my American amigos, this was a funny line in the UK
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That last review got so many facts wrong that "dj bollocks" should be barred from writing another until Billie can sort her teeth new out.
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i'm hoping the news that steven moffat is taking over in season 5 with convince him to stay.
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If we saw the ep we don't need you telling us what happened; if we didn't we don't need you spoiling it for us. Please fuck off with these running goddamn commentaries.
In fact please stop running these pieces of shit AICN.
What the fuck guys??? -
Looked more exciting than any movie coming out this summer. Seriously, it looks HUGE. Next saturday is too far away.
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Lol,looking forward to Italy Vs Spain,whoevers tears will be shed will be nectar to me,may the best team win.For me,there was a lot to enjoy in this episode,I like it when they hint at potentially bleak subjects(I'm sure they could of sent others to camps before foreign folk :O,don't get excited everybody not really(seriously not really,don't opress me because I breeeeed =>),come on everybody lets have harmony this week,http://tinyurl.com/3tghdu,
http://tinyurl.com/4nfu9r,http://tinyurl.com/3hl9us,there we go some chicken soup for the soul,now hopefully no battles break out on the basis that B.Cribbens sung a Freddie Mercury song(they should of sung Beetles by Aphex anyway) and no cussing my London(it's ok I was in the fridge when the Titanic hit) or the fact that Billie is still a nice bit of Jack and Danny.I agree with Gothik,I thought Grandad was refering to WW2 when he said it's happening again.The maid pointing reminded me of http://tinyurl.com/4j2hqs.I wish Buckingham palace would've been taken out ID4 style(BBC bottlers lol).Leeds :).Nobody ever gave Donna a straight answer,poor cow.If she gets taken out protecting a Torchwood team member I riot =>,take 1 for the team Ianto,u suck(oh er sounds a bit rude TM R.Mayall).The Daleks are coming http://tinyurl.com/3f23d8 hooray,kill them alllll,I hope Davros comes back in style........I'm off to watch Adulthood tonight,wish me luck,you know a lot of phones will be on and somebodies going to start blazing,I could've gone this morning but as the youth around me see the first one like it's Star Wars(1977 version) I feel I must sit at the back,in the corner and watch the human behavior to get the full blast,it's like a 2 for 1 :),peace to all Dr Who Talkbackers......... -
it was a pretty obvious refernce to WW2 - though the term concentration camp actulay dates back to the boer war fwiw
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I actually thought Ms Tate did a really good job this week - a can now rest knowing she can actually act rather than just yell her lines
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The last scene in this weeks Dr Who Confidential was a shadowy shot of Davros.
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to go back in time and erase every single bad thing I ever wrote/said about Catherine Tate.
and most of the stuff I wrote about RTD. -
sorry - but like i always tell my daughter - if you dont want to know what happens - DONT READ THE INTERNET before you had chance to see the show
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It was well done but this episode was just a glorified clip show. From the minute the alternate world started was there any doubt that she was going to undo it somehow? Was there any doubt that Rose would tell her some secret message? The only thing Donna ever did according to this episode was save the doctor from getting killed. Yeah, we know the Doctor is really important. It would only take watching tow episodes to see how he changed the fate of the universe. So what was the point? To pad out the season and try to convince us that Donna isn't as bad as we seem to think he is.
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It just worked as a show - losing the doctor was a great edge and i said at first i thought it was RTD being slow i really enjoyed it - i guess each to their own
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the reviewers "i am more anal" recall competition was a subject i bought up after silence episode a few weeks ago and all that happened is some young girl took it personally and gave me a load of shit over it. I don't get the mentality of these people. So i find it wise not to read the reviews. Anyway I just realised that the biggest flaw in tonights episode is RTD'S referring to only his episodes. Anyway if the guy from queer as folk is the favourite then i hope they bring back chick with glasses from last week, sally sparrow and the hot witch from the shakespeare episode as he could be as dull as dull is. What about sean pertwee. He's a much better actor than he's given credit for and can be seriously funny. Anyway just a thought.
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I look forward to the explanation for how the Daleks figured out the Nine Billion Names of God.
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Yeah all the way through this episode I was groaning at how heavy-handed old RTD was with the references - ah you see, now THEY are the asylum seekers etc etc...
But I have to say on reflection, I'm glad they had that scene with the happy 'non-Brit' getting carted off. Yeah it was pretty heavy-handed but at the same time it is a family show and in my opinion if kids get to learn about all the horrible shit that went down during WW2 then that is a good thing - not to mention the fact that the "it's happening again" could also refer to the way that us Brits had labour camps for foreign nationals - a fact that seems to have conveniently slipped past most history classes - I'm not saying Dr Who will educate kids but what I am saying is that the little darlings might do a bit of research or ask some tough questions and that is a very good thing.... -
nice and criptic - perhaps you should do the reviews and that might satisfy the people who feel they spoil everything
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its only slipping past cos we choose not to remember - though today i spent time with a group who will never forget
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The more I think about it ( or the more beer I drink) the more I think it's a good thing that RTD lays this shit on thick. Kids SHOULD be outraged at the way we treat asylum seekers; they should be educated about the horrible stuff we did as a nation to win a war. Cribbins was the shit in this episode.
But yes to join in with everyone else - what the fuck was going on with Rose? Very Sean Connery.
According to the missus she suffered from anorexia or something so maybe it's just general too-skinniness and her skin just doesn't fit her mouth any more??? -
Jun 21, 2008 7:36:04 PM CDT
Donna's bettle backpack now available from Woolworths £15.99
by davidaball
After the amazing and exquisitly written / directed episode last week I can't understand why people think this episode is anything but filler.
Considering half the episode was clips of things we'd seen before or half references to shows we might not have watched. And the stupidity of the episode where the reboot moment is already known!?!!?
I hope the final two parter is at least twice as good as this. All this episode did was remind me what a useless hack RTD is. Doctor who does it's a wonderful life anyone?
This episode did have:
Rose returns
References to most major RTD Episodes so far.
Donna doing her shouting thang
Heavy handed references to imigration and concentration camps.
Hey, they mentioned the bees!
What it didn't have:
Character development
Plot develpoment
Any sense of logic
An ending that made sense.
A relistic looking bettle.
A budget over £5
I can't switch my brain off so I must ask:
If Rose could travel to the location where Donna was dying why couldnt she make Donna turn left.
Final plot twist Donna's Mum knows a short cut.!
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Oi! I'm a temp worker - and we CAN do anything! We might not be strictly qualified, like, but we CAN do anything...
jccalhoun - Yeah, it WAS a clip show, and kind of pointless, but it WAS a blast - some very daring, messing with that alternative seasons 2-4 universe was fantastic, and some great foreshadowing. Yep, Billie WAS a bit weird tonight, but I think she'll get better. And make Bernard Cribbins Doctor no.11!!!
kuryakin - Scray stuff, especially with the conspiracy forums on the internet buzzing with the rumours of internment camps being built all over the USA RIGHT NOW, but with no real indication of who's going to end up in them...
I do think it's important we remember ALL the stuff that happened in the Wars, and that moment between Cribbins and the Italian guy was truly heartbreaking. One of the best moments in the whole episode.
One last question though: If RTD was really this great a writer all along - because, plot holes aside, tonight was a rollicking great ride - why the hell did it take four seasons for him to unleash two great scripts on us in the same month?!?!? Bastard!!! -
still sounds pretty craptacular from those reviews - even the ones that were trying to be "glowing" - maybe when RTD (and TATE) leaves I might give Who another go
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Well given Billie is pregnant then i think it might be that (fwiw the prod crew on Call girl is buying new clothes for her due to weight gain)
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well if you think this was "craptaculer" without sight then you aint a who fan full stop - shame but we wont miss you
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After listening to RTD talk in DW Confidential he seemed very confident that all the layering and set-ups are going to pay off before this season's end. So we have the planets disappearing, which I think will be a fairly easy plot point to tie in. Then the repeated mention of the Medusa Cascade. Now since nobody really knows what that is then this might be easy to tie in too.But the vanishing bees? Is this really going to be explained in a story involving Daleks? If it is then kudos to RTD. He's done a genius series arc.
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Jun 21, 2008 7:58:40 PM CDT
donna is NOT the only person to meet the Dr multiple times
by evilwizardglick
What about the Brigadier and Tegan. The both encountered the Doctor a number of times.
Brigadier met at least four Doctors. And Tegan was dropped on earth then found the Doctor again. -
Either that or teeth whitening strips. Maybe caps or veneers.
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was fucking brilliant.
bad points
1), the rubber bug, looked like a rucksack on donna
2) i could hardly understand what billy piper was saying, what happened with her upper set of teeth???? what ever it is, its causing her to have a speech impediment
good points
pretty much everything.next week looks even better.
Bernard Cribbins, great work by that man, his tears welling up, the look on his face when that family was being sent to the labour camp. kudos
I'm actually surprised, rtd seems to have missed a trick here didn't have a gay, plot/ dialog in this episode. and no, im not being facetious. As well as those non English people who were being sent to those labour camps, he could added homosexuals.if he introduced them properly in that household, it would have worked. I assume he was looking for parallels to nazi germany where jews, homosexuals, gypsies and others were exterminated.
Kudos, RTD, you did an excellent job of this episode. -
Here's new Rose and old Rose side by side. I think the main problems are -
1. Her hair was parted different, how hard would have it been to get this right? Um... wasn't your hair parted above your right eyebrow before?
2. Her eyebrows, they are shaped very differently now.
3. Her eye make up, it looks like she had more liner on before.
4. She lost like ten pounds, about 1/3 of her actual weight.
5. On the tooth front, it seems like they are different in the confidential there was a side shot that looked like her front teeth were actually ON TOP OF her actual teeth.
http://tinyurl.com/4eobov -
Really enjoyed this episode, so much better than last week, and it was also great to watch it with my nephews, the 4 year old trying desperately to follow, and asking questions "but the Doctor isn't really dead , is he?", and the 9 year old actually being engrossed in a show he "hates even more than girls".
And yes Billie Piper was shit, and great shout godwillforgivethem! -
The first thing I thought when they said "labor camp" was to think Auschwitz, but then started thinking about Manzanar and how we (The U.S.) stuck 120,000 Japanese-Americans in camps after Pearl Harbor. Most of whom were BORN in the United States. I had never ever HEARD of that until high school because it was such a deeply shameful and stupid act born out of blind panic and fear that it was just not talked about.
I think kids who see it will obviously know that labor camp = a bad thing because of the blunt (but masterful) way it was handled, but still subtle enough that it will make them ask their parents to explain it and they'll end learning something important. -
Sorry, Mr McSpud, and, this is the truth, it was PERFECT!!!!!
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I get the feeling that the new teeth and change in accent were intentional and these are somehow related to the plot of the final episodes. Doctor Who might be done on the cheap, but there's no budgetary reason the Director couldn't have yelled "cut" and re-do the line if Billie Piper sloshed her words. That said, I do believe Rose sucked in the power of the Tardis at the end of first series and I wouldn't be surprised if her speech impediment is related to the change in voice.
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Like I said, this was a well done episode but it was frustrating because I'm looking forward to seeing all the companions show up again. -- although it would really be sweet if some of the other companions from before RTD aside from Sarah Jane showed up again. There are quite a few that should be hanging around the present day or still alive including Ian Chesterton from way back in the beginning (William Russell who played him is apparently still alive).
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That was a fucking kickass episode. And the next two with the casts of all three shows? Holy shit. Davies is giving us one hell of a going away party.As for Rose, yeah she looked a bit thin and her hair was off but fuck it, I was happy to see her again.
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piper had fucked up teeth and speech. there's no reason for it within the context of the series. thus, piper must have had something wrong with her mouth in reality for the filming of this episode. i mean it was pretty dumb sounding and obvious. i think previous talkbackers have hit the nail on the head - some sort of dental treatment that made her speech wacky for a while. some horrible american thing like veneers (one would question why not the lower teeth then) or some sort of whitening treatment, or just good old root canal work.
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I'm not a fan of RTD's vision of time loops/paradoxes, but if I set that aside as a "well, as mere humans we shouldn't fully understand it all anyway", then this is very much like "Father's Day" writ large across a world. I enjoyed the way they were able to have all his big doctorless earth-shaking disasters without actually destroying world through a series of off-screen heroic sacrifices and thus at the same time manage to foreshadow the grand alliance of companions who appear destined to surround the doctor in the finale. I don't mind that Rose was a bit stiff - realities of being away from the role for two years, this is Donna's era and it would have been worse if Rose had completely overshadowing her, so I like how it was all done. Fantastically dramatic end-teaser, even if it is mostly sound and fury. One tiny thing though - changing the words on the Tardis door ... I tend to see the Tardis exterior as the one fixed constant in all the decades of the show and it reflexively bugs me whenever they mess with it (this, the ringing phone in "The Empty Child", even temporarily repairing the chameleon device years ago).
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If Tom Baker, Sophie Aldred or Sylvester McCoy showed up at the end of the season to save the day. Honestly, I still miss Ace and wonder what ever happened to her. She is the only companion whose departure from The Doctor is never seen on film (and books just never count as canon. Even if they did, there are at least a couple books covering this and they contradict each other.)
I think most of Piper's change was due to a dramatic weight loss. That can alter a person significantly.
Joedini -- Your review was filled to the brim with MAJOR spoilers. You even revealed the climax and resolution to the episode! Please, try not to treat your reviews like a play-by-play commentary. I'm smart enough not to read this page until I've watched the show, but other people who haven't would have every moment of suspense totally ruined by your review.
Look at it this way: If you wrote a review for "Planet of the Apes" when it was new, and actually included the phrase "and once Taylor sees the Statue of Liberty he knows he has been on Earth the whole time!" then you're doing it wrong. Instead, you would want to write, "And the ending includes a twist that will likely shock you." or something equally benign.
So when you say, "throws herself in front of a lorry" you're not doing the readers any favors. Got it?
Keep trying. Just cut out the major plot-spoiling parts next time. Don't give away the ending. Don't tell us every twist. Let us experience them as they hit us in the show's flow, the way it was intended.
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otherwise I'd be stuck watching EDITED epsiodes on the sci-fi channel. yes, they're EDITED for time. they take all the best bits out to cut to commercials. anyway, just watched the episode on youtube.com and was floored by the ending. AMAZING! it's almost here. can't wait. series finale. thank you RTD, bring on the MOFF! =0)
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I'm saying it again. I'm SO SICK of people flapping their gums about that one-off character Sally Sparrow. She was mildly entertaining, and kind of cute, but really-- She wasn't anything special and I don't get why there are so many people who want to see her again. She served her purpose in a very bland way. The actress was decent, but the character was boring and sort of annoying. She's not interesting at all.
As for all this talk from the Doctor about Donna being linked to him, and having a lot of parallel worlds surrounding her: Come on! She's either The Master or The Rani. Just because the Master is dead doesn't mean an earlier regeneration couldn't have picked up that ring - - And what a great big FUCK YOU to The Doctor it would be to masquerade as a companion for a while! Of course, her being the Rani makes more sense, especially when you consider that The Rani's personal and physical attributes sort of match Donna's. She'd be an ideal Rani.
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Because Rose couldn't get to that point unless Donna made herself turn right. Remember; Rose only showed up AFTER things were set right. Prior to that, she couldn't interfere because she couldn't go back on that timeline in that dimension.
Or if you prefer a different, more snarky explanation, then Rose is smart enough to get the loudmouthed redhead to toss herself in front of a lorry instead of doing it herself.
Either way. -
As the arrogant, sexy bastard, androgynous Doctor who shags his companion and struts like Mick Jagger.
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The episode was one of the best of the season so far. I never thought i would like a Donna cenrtic episode, but she has certainly grown as a character. Very refreshing to have a companion not suffering from puppy love for the doctor like Rose, Martha, and Jack.
Speaking of rose, she seems a lot more mature than last we saw her. Two years ago she would have been catty towardsanyone else who was traveling with the doctor no matter what the stakes were. Regardless of her teeth or lisp, Billie Piper is still one good looking piece of tail.
As for the soothsayer in Pompeii saying Donna had something on her back, he was not referring to the beetle. She did not have it on her bsack then, so that was a misdirection. there is something about her that is going to cause her to become the ultimate, sacrificing hero. For all i know, she has a connection with the Red Dalek. I would not put it passed RTD. -
... my teenagers' review of 'Turn Left' - "Best episode ever!"
Now if he could pull their attention away from MTV for an hour, he has to be doing something right.
BTW, Dad loved it, too! -
ALL THE MISSING PLANETS REFERENCES THIS SEASON? i am usually pretty good on these things but this just passed me by. I am slacking.. RTD has not been though - just watched it again and the only thing i didn't like (yes there was something) is the inaccurate Chiswick Geography. ( i used to live there in the 70's 80's) apart from that great great great stuff,
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Why do you suffer watching the show on YouTube when you could download the whole episode in one shot on a torrent and have it uncut, uninterrupted in a far higher quality? Delete it afterwards if you like but come on, don't 'Tube the TARDIS.
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Nitpickers annoy me (heh), especially in the face of an episode which was so well done and so emotionally resonant. Tate was miraculous - I unequivocally love her and Donna now. And Piper was terrific - I've missed Rose more than I can say. I loved the little shoutouts to RTD's old episodes, and the prospect of next week's episode - in which EVERYBODY shows up (except the Master, presumably) - makes me so excited I want to spit.
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OK, this one is puzzling me; so much of this episode was about recounting all of the things that would happen without the Doctor around to prevent it. What about the Master's plan and Saxon and all that?
I've been thinking about the episode "Utopia", and it seems like Yana would have gotten his memory back and opened that watch and become the Master anyway (I don't think the Doctor or Martha did anything to specifically trigger it).
So any ideas? Why wasn't Saxon/the Master running around in this alternate universe? -
Looking back at the plot synopsis for Utopia, I remember now that it was the Doctor who solved the problem with the rocket to allow it to reach Utopia; so I guess without that, the human race in the future would have died out. Should we assume somehow that this led to Yana never opening his watch and becoming the Master again?
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Seriously. I'm sick to death of plot recaps spiked with jabs at Russell Davies. It's like there's a template out there: "First A happened and then B happened and because RTD wrote this episode it was bad. And now I will ruin the end for you, and didn't that ending suck? Because RTD sucks, heh heh. BringbackSallySparrow."
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The Doctor never showed up, so his TARDIS didn't end up on that planet so even if the Master had managed to recover his identity, he wouldn't have had the TARDIS to make it back to Earth and back in time.
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yeah, i think since the doctor died earlier in this alternate universe he never went anywhere with martha, thus the master never came to earth to install himself as SAXON.. That invasion only happened for the people on the UNIT carrier- as soon as the paradox collapsed only the people in the "eye of the storm" could remember it..
Any bets on Ecclestone turning up next week? it seems everyone else is... -
MAN, I haven't even finished the episode and those damn implants/veneers/caps/whatever that she keeps slurring and hissing through are bugging the HELL outta me!!! >:ODid someone knock her teeth out???
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I hope the last two episodes work out well.
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He seems to be staying as far away as he possibly can. I've heard people say he didn't get along with Piper, so if he was to come back, now certainly wouldn't be the time.
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The soothsayer who said Donna had something on her back was a man, not a she. He also said it was on her back in the present tense, which the beetle was not at the time. So you have neither the right gender or time frame correct.
Get your facts straight before trying to correct me again. -
Why would Donna visit a fortune teller? She could have read her future while she was in the LIBRARY in the episodes Silence in the Library or Forest of the Dead! It just doesn't make any fucking sense. This has to be one of the worst episodes ever, but hands down the worst episode yet was The Doctor's Daughter. BAD BAD BAD
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or otherwise removed from the show.
I just can't stand her and any episode where she has a large part to play is painful to suffer through.
I think this could have been a great episode if there was some way not to have Donna in it.
JethroBodine: I don't think she really expected the fortune teller to give an accurate prediction - Her motivation was more likely along the lines of, it was free and good for a laugh.
I suspect that Rose has lost some weight since we saw her last since her front teeth look far too large for her head now, she reminded me of Bugs Bunny.
I think that this was always the case, but in this episode it was very noticeable.
oh, and a big groan as the teaser for next week indicates a crossover with Torchwood.
I completely avoid that show; While Dr Who can be pretty bad at times, Torchwood is ALWAYS terrible. -
This episode should not have happened. If Donna wanted to know her future, she would have looked at the Doctor's diary in the Library. She would never have gone in to the psychic's tent. It was made clear that she doesn't want to know what her future holds, even when told her future is bleak.
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She turned it down twice before the chick said they were free for redheads, then she finally relented with a "ah, fuck it" attitude. She didn't seek it out. Now come on people, we're behind the ScriptGirl talkback in total posts. This will not stand.
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...The Master! Anyone else come up with that one? Not so crazy. Accounts for her awkward speech, her ability to help create a Time Machine. The Master wants the Doctor alive, so he can defeat him! Or something. Who knows (maybe he does!). The thing about Donna being someone like The Master/Rani could just be a giant red herring.
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I dig me some Who but can't riff on the episode I watch cuz you're alway weeks ahead.
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I'm sorry but maybe it is you who should get your facts straight. If you watch the episode again, the male soothsayer was predicting the future to prove that he was better then the sick woman. Since his exact line was "Doctor, she is returning...and you daughter of london, there is something on your back"
I mean seriously it doesn't take a genius to work it out. I think Cap'n Jack deserves an apology. -
The teeth made me think of Red Dwarf with the alternate Cat. Unlike other people, though, I don't think that it is the "fault" of Billy Piper, but was meant to be that way to indicate that something's not right. She might not be our universe's Rose, or she's a Dalek clone (a la Resurrection of the Daleks), or it's something tying in with the universes being open again.
As for the missing bees tying in with Daleks, they've done similar things before with wasps in the Doctor Who comic (wasp forms becoming alternate universe Daleks) and, if I recall right, one of the 5th Doctor audio adventures. Maybe RTD's raiding the audios again for ideas.
Concerning Donna, they seem to be making a big deal about her being a temp worker. Seeing as the French word for time is "temps", maybe he's trying to make an implication there (especially given the "what are you going to be" bit this week). Donna = Bad Wolf 2: Electric Boogaloo? -
Doctor Dan is picked one nit too far-- the references to past episodes are all essential becasue the story is exploring what would have happened to the world if the Doctor died in 'The Runaway Bride'!
As for there being no explaination of why Rose has returned and why she's so interested in Donna-- this will obviously be explained either in next week's episode or the week after.
There are a few plot holes however:
1) Without Donna suddenly turning up in the TARDIS at the end of Doomsday, who's to say that the Doctor would even have shown up on Earth to fight the Racnoss?
2) Wasn't it explained in VOTD that the Titanic crashing into Earth would have caused an extinction level explosion rather than merely just taking out half of England?
3) If the Doctor had never met Donna and died then how come everyone in the present day haven't been turned into Pyroviles? (Fires of Pompeii).
It's not a big deal though-- my enjoyment of the story was not affected. -
If he died before even meeting martha, then who would have stopped the Carrionites from taking over the world back in the sixteenth century? Or the Daleks from turning the human race into more Daleks back in the 1930's?
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It's best if you don't think about them too much. RTD has never been any good at doing proper coherant SF. Enjoy it for what it was... an above average RTD script.
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Well, I gotta say, i thought this episode was top notch. Very enjoyable and great to see the cast of the other Doctor Who spin offs being killed in his absence... Especially the kids from the Sarah Jane Adventures.. Not that i don't like them (lets face it, it is for kids, but still enjoyable) but the fact that these 'minor' characters in the DR Who universe were mentioned as dead and they were kids.. I liked that.. And then to see these minor characters look ready to turn up in the upcoming episodes... There's a review on the SFX.com about the next episode, no spoilers, just a gush of fanbased joy at what a geekfest the next episode is... Gotta say, i'm looking forwards to it.... And anybody who says that the this episode was cheap - that was a nuke going off over London... These were BIG things happening...
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but now, we can fill those gaps with... IMAGINATION! It was a neat episode though. Donna grown on me, and I liked the scenes where she had to accept that "she's the most important woman in all creation".
Can't wait for stolen earth. -
I dont drink. I know youre being satrical or something. Like most things in ireland, these days, it is on a list of things you wont be able to do.
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you wouldnt believe.
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Throughout this series there have been hints that Donna has some serious future destiny. Since she came into the series she has been held up as some kind of naive, screechy voice of reason, fairness, compassion - insisting the family gets saved in The Fires of Pompeii, crying over the Ood, etc. At the end of this ep the fortune teller scuttles away saying "what are you...what will you be?". I recon by series end Donna will be...The Shadow Proclamation. Not a who,a what.
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..and even I thought that was a good ep - despite the premise of the 'what if' story has been done to death in other shows and films. Yeah, credit where credit is due. I didn't even find Catherine Fucking Tate as annoying as usual.. just mildly annoying. Next week looks ok too. I just hope they don't fuck up Davros. They got the look of him right, I just hope he doesn't go all 'The Master' over the top. The dalek sounding laugh at the end of the preview had me a bit concerned.
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She really irritates me. Don't know why. Ever since I saw her on 'That Peter Kay Thing' She has bugged me. Her voice is like nails on a blackboard. She irriates my wife and my mother-in-law even more, to the point they have both stopped watching Who. She hasn't been as bad as I originally thought though from an acting perspective. She just irritates me.
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I've no idea what future Donna will become, but River already knew in the Library two parter.
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comment by doctor tom was the funniest thing i've seen on here for a long time!
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...but why should she look exactly the same in term's of her hair style..etc. She's been LIVING in the this other universe all this time, not frozen in a time capsule. Not so strange that she might update her appearance. Real people do it all the time.
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Surprised no-one has had a trouser bulge explosion about the last clip in the Confidential episode showing a disfigured paraplegic with a glowing blue forehead eye trundling out of the shadows. Bet he turns out to be gay, too.
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I wasn't dissing Temp Workers, I've done some temping in my time, but seriously the knowledge that Donna seemingly has garnered from temping is a little extreme me thinks.
As for Donna being The Rani, RTD said he wouldn't go that route, he showed "The Hand Of Rani" picking up the Masters Ring after he died "So that future writers might bring back the character". As for the Red Dalek I'm just going to say this "Don't you think she looks tired?" -
Very funny, duane dibley indeed.
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Donna allowing the fortune teller to read her palm doesn't have anything to do with the "spoilers" from the Library. The diary is FACT. Those are things that are definitely going to happen. Donna probably thought the fortune teller was just like Madame Cleo. She didn't want to know her future, she was just humoring a con artist.
Dreamfasting -- I thought of Fenric last night all of sudden. Had never thought of "Bad Wolf" in the context of world(s) ending before, and it all of a sudden just made sense. Fenrir definitely is a very naughty lupine. -
if it dies when she doesn't meet the Doctor then she must save it when she's with him...and she'll probably get a fella too.
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He blatantly DID write the Sontaran two-parter - or at least came up with the plot and got Rayner to write the words. On the Confidentials he pretty much claimed credit for all the ideas in it. And let's be fair - the ideas were all classic(?) RTD: everyday devices in modern Britain that suddenly evil aliens use to kill people... How much have we seen that??
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The Rani was a bad, failed try to create a new villian for the Doctor late in the original series. The Rani is not a classic villian and RTD would never think about using that character. He mocks the character often in DVD commentaries.
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Someone else wrote the actual episodes, but RTD is the showrunner. He writes the overall arc of the season, writes some of the episodes himself, and farms out those he doesn't have time to write to other writers.
Think Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Not actually written by Lucas, but still his invention. -
It seems in the confidential that RTD said, someone else drank the water that was infected and that other person went to the TARDIS. So the only difference was, without Donna the other person didn't stop the Dotor and thus he died. I would assume the other person died as well.Put it's a fair point about the Daleks in the 1930's. My guess would be that once time started to alter that other events either just never occurred at all, or those events were altered, i.e. the Atipose in the US and not in the UK. Just a thought.
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It has been explained (behind the scenes) that in her (original) alternate dimension Rose has been working for their version of Torchwood - so she is in the know of things.
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Both in the UK and the US, the writing credits seem very complicated, thank you guilds. I suspect the way it's done on Doctor Who is the same way it's done on the Stargates and the newer Treks. You have writing room, meaning a group of people who tweak/fix scripts. But you typically have one main writer for the script he/she gets the credit, even though other people piss into the same pot. Don't even get me started on how many hands the fucking Flintstone movies went through. Now if you came up with the idea, but someone else wrote the script, you might get a "Story by" credit for one person, then a "Teleplay by" credit for someone else. I think the way Who works is they commission a script, but once they own it, RTD, et al, go through it adding all the bees references, the foreshadowing stuff, and generally "punch" the script up to meet their standards. So the "writer" gets the "Written by" credit in the opening titles, and the story editors just fix it, add to it, cut it down for budget reasons, etc., before it's shot.
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SHE WILL SHOUT VERY LOUD UNTIL THEY ALL GO AWAY!
OI! THREE EYES GIVE THE DALEK HIS TROUSERS BACK!
If Donna does die at the end of the season I think I'm going to miss her. She's was such a breath of fresh air as a character that Rose now seems a bit two dimensional.
Still think that episode was filler and trod water and had so many plot holes it made my brain hurt. -
Donna's mother says that millions would have died in London. But wasn't London deserted that Christmas (apart from the Royal Family)?
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In the UK the norm is one writer for the entire series of a show (or occasionally a pairing). For instance Steven Moffat wrote all episodes of Coupling.
Doctor Who is slightly different in that one writer will produce the script and then RTD will rewrite parts to either add in needed plot points or to generally improve and DrWhoise it. Moffat scripts are the exception to this, its all his work if some parts are suggested to be changed by RTD.
Shows with teams of writers are the exception in the UK - My Family being the only obvious example. Its thought to reduce quality (and the evidence from that show is good).
This is part of the reason that UK series are relatively short by US standard - one person is generally coming up with all the scripts. -
i thought that too, however, with these alternate, dystopian futures, who knows quite how things reshuffled themselves..
And i think doctortom has nailed the bees story. DALEKS now = hive mind with DAVROS as the borg queen. The sheer amount of dalek ships swarming toward earth in the trailer i think are the confirmation of that.. -
I'm sort of grasping at straws ... I would like there to be a deeper meaning for the choice of words "Bad Wolf" such as Fenric or the Norse apocalypse wolf Fenrir, but deep down I suspect that they are just random words that sound ominous and cool. I think that if there was a deeper villainy than Davros' return, we would have found out more about Davros by now. Then again, the finales have had a tendency to spring things out of left field.
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even the yout tube stuff gets deleted afte a while by BBC. but this download, where does that come from? higher quality WOULD be nice. for some reason the BBC website won't let me view (am in the US mate)...
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Because he was revealing he knew who the Doctor and Donna really were. He called the Doctor 'man from Gallifrey" which is not predicting the future and that Donna "calls herself Noble, but you have something on your back." if he is referring to the beetle, then it is a huge anticlamtic goof because there were no ultimate consequences to the beetle being there. Whatever she is destined to become in the finale is the big deal, so i still say he was not referring to the beetle.
I am also done arguing with it. Good grief, it is a throaway line from an episode that aired three months ago. I am not going to apologize for a darn thing other than I am sorry Cap'm Jack apparently cannot tell the difference between a man and a woman. must be that gay agenda everyone keeps whining RTD has going. -
Oh - and re: words on the Tardis (and everything else) changing to "Bad Wolf", I suddenly clued in that they come from/through the Tardis itself via its psychic translation.
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Did I read it here or just imagine it that in the finale we finally meet the Shadow Proclamation? It would seem appropriate, given that for his finale swansong RTD seems to be bringing back every other major trope of his, and the Shadow Proclamation was first mentioned in the first episode.
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Here's a theory for you: in Donna's alternate universe, the Doctor wasn't around to stop the Cult of Skaro in New York. They managed to create a bunch of new Daleks and build a void ship (as per season 2) to leap across universes before it collapsed. Thus, the entire resurrection of the Daleks could spring forth from the beetle-created universe.
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after reading the other posts and seeing last nights great ep. and after being verbally thwacked over the head by a talkbacker. all this talk about donna. and her future, got me to thinking. some are saying that donna saves the world. that leaves me with the conclusion that Donna performs an act of enormous self-sacrifice that will change her life in some way. or that she sees something that gives her a bit of a backbone. ie her beloved grandpa or her mother gets killed. this causes her to decided that the days of her disappointing anyone are over. she finds bravery and courage and becomes a hero. I have no idea really. each side kick seems to enter dr whos world and then leave it as quickly as they came, they all end up working for torchwood. I wonder does donna end up running torchwood at some point.
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and soon. all those hysterical people who damned Catherine Tate are gonna eat their words. after she goes there will be those who will miss her. very few i know....
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Planet Gallifrey .blogspot com has lots and lots of pictures and plot points for the next episode and a few for the final Looks very big and epic. The Stolen Earth spoilers: http://is.gd/DiF Journey's End spoilers: http://is.gd/DiL
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I think she's been set up as somebody who only thinks they're good at being an office temp and unlucky in love so, I doubt they'll kill her off. Everyone is telling her how important she is and I think the fact that they play it as if it could be a bad thing is a bit of a red herring. As for Tate, she has won me over - even had me laughing last night.
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Okay, so we have the Doctor, Donna, Rose, Martha, Captain Jack, Sarah Jane, the cast of Torchwood, the cast of The Sarah Jane Adventures, Harriet Jones, the return of the Daleks, Davros, possibly another big baddie behind the scenes, the introduction of the Shadow Proclamation, the invasion of Earth, stopping the end of the universe, and some prophecy arc about Donna coming to fruition. In 90 minutes? Written by RTD? Either this will be the best finale ever, or it will make last year's damp squib look like Blink. I want to be 100% hopeful, but I'm something like 5% worried.
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Jun 22, 2008 12:06:11 PM CDT
Does anyone know if tate has signed on for another season
by emeraldboy
or not. a couple of weeks ago I saw tates name attached to a play in london and that made me think that she was on her way out. Was her deal with Dr who a one term deal. or is she doing it for a couple of years. I dont really know. or does it depend on how popular the character is and how well the beeb think that actor is doing. I havent heard anything. Seems a bit much to sign her up then kill her off. I saw enough of this season to know that piper was coming back and that Martha is joining Torchwood. Who the hell knows.
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looks awesom
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What if Donna is the red dalek that keeps being mentioned in story blurbs? It's described as " A deadly new, suprising red dalek".
How would any dalek be suprising -it's been done a billion times- unless there is some kind of personal loss at stake for the doctor??? Remember Rose pretty much gave away that Donna will die -and she's still alive at the end of the episode, but is not the companiona after this series..
Stupid? Make sense in a weird sort of way?........... -
That is...very...odd..but...you may well be on to something. we will see....
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It does seem like quite a bit of stuff for RTD to resolve in even a two parter, while still introducing elements along the way. One of the spoilers suggests the hidden bad guy(assuming there is one) plays into the three specials that will be made next year instead of an actual series.
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I had a thought...
in season three we had the whole stupid looking human dalek. Davros plan is to destroy dr who once and for all. he would need take to something very personal away from the dr. ie Donna. but Davros's warped plan is to Turn humans into Daleks. The Human Dalek didnt work. We havent heard much about the cyberman this season. But waht if the company behind the cybermen was taken over by bad wolf or the people who run bad wolf. Thus allowing davros at some point to create a plan which would turn humans into daleks. Thus Donna beoomes the red Dalek. She gets a job and gets rapidly promoted. but she doesnt realise that she has signed away her life. and ends becoming the red dalek. none of her humanity remains. -
I'm about 5% worried too about having every character thrown into the finale. It might be too much. Then again it might be marvellous.We already know all these characters so it's not as if they'll need to spend any time setting up who they are. Except maybe Davros, who might need a scene or two to explain to the younger audience who it is. But everyone else can arrive on screen with little to no introduction. Meanwhile the plotlines (disappearing planets etc) have already been seeded, so again that'll save time.This means they'll be able to cram quite a lot into the 90 minutes. I'm hoping that it's all great. But if I hear a Rogue Traders song I'll start panicking.Btw – It feels really pleasant to read through 170+ posts here without seeing any of the stupid vitriol.
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She stepped infront of that truck, remember? That's what Rose was talking about. Alterna-verse Donna died to change history.
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big send off and i've never got the feeling they'd keep her around. the entire way her character has been used this season is to temper and help the Doctor deal with conflicts and issues, that may be finished with her sacrifice. The conversion to dalek has merit though, it would theoretically create a Dalek that understands the Doctor better than others and for a tactician like Davros would be a logical step. Rumours side with it being the ex prime minister though.
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It's a little more complicated than that -watch the repeat. Donna says to Rose -something like- "I won't die, becasuse I'll fix time and none of this will have existed and I'll be back with the doctor again -I don't have to die" and Rose says "Sorry". To me at least, this suggests Rose knows that even when time is fixed the "real" Donna ends up dying -which is why River song wouldn't tell her what happened to her in the library episodes. Sounds a bit wishy washy but there is a chain of logis in there.
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sorry, my spelling was appauling in that last post.
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And yes, I've said before, I changed my mind on Tate (from about episode 2).
So I, for one, will miss Donna, no matter what her ultimate fate is. -
I don't reckon Donna's going to die. I think something else, something big, is going to happen to her that'll mean she leaves the show. Keep up the guesswork.If she does die or leave or whatever then can I make an early request to Steven Moffat to try to keep Bernard Cribbins in the show.
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MR9EZhYzxr4
The Children Of Time are conspiring against us..... -
without the space
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Very good. Nice and moody as well
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so hysterical. Did the reaction of her casting merit all the early bile. Some will argue yes and some will argue no.
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This has always been my main problem with RTD episodes; They're good, but they don't feel Who. He has a signature style and you can tick off his reference list as you watch an episode. He has interesting ideas interspersed with weird self-indulgent flourishes. Last Nights episode was good tv, but it wasn't Who, and it had that same plasticy, artificial feel that all RTD's episodes have. Theres a distance there that I struggle to cross. Roll on an epic 2 part finale, but tbh I'm far more thrilled about Moffet's coming tenure than I am about the return of Davros.
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I think I know what happens. Its only speculation. but donna and the dr are captured. I think the dr sends a concust Donna back in time and alters her history a bit. She will have no memory of him but has changed her life in profound way, he gives her a bit more confidence that what she had. and she ends up running HC Clements.
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to set up the bombastic two part finale.
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I just had to do this, it's wicked stupid, but it was still fun. http://tinyurl.com/4zbeo5
Please fix any spaces in the URL. -
I'd like to see her again
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the follow up episode to "The Sontaran Strategem". Donna and the dr get captured only this time by the daleks and he cannot get out of this jam because they are going to kill him. it could well be like the finale of Sontaran Stratagem but there will be huge cliffhanger.
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don't you think it looks tired?
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That would mean "not [or against] second to the last."
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noo, ANTI penultimate would mean that.. ante as a prefix means before.
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....When are we going to get Jurassic Park iv????
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Seconded.
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Cmon, he created an all-male race just for himself.
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To a 1 hour episode (i.e. 1hr 30 minutes with commercials on US networks)
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good stuff, was funny
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I found the idea that The Doctor would drown himself by being so focused on killing the Racnoss to be incredibly stupid. The guy isn't Adric. But hey, it's an RTD script, so what do you expect? At least nobody farted in the episode. Steven Moffat taking over the franchise can't get here soon enough. I also want to personally donkey punch the idiot that posted the episode on the torrents cropped to the 4:3 aspect ratio and not mentioning it. Idiot! You also shaved off the beginning too.
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Tate's not in next season (which is 4 90 min episodes not a full series) Tate's not even in the Christmas Special as far as I'm aware. Seems pretty certain that she does something with the Shadow Proclamation, and her memory is apparently going to be wiped or she dies or...in RTD world she could die, stare into the heart of the tardis, live then have her memory wiped. She's not the Red Dalek.
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I swear I was screaming "bad wolf!" at the tv right before donna said it. Being non-british (non-native inglish speaker in fact) I got the impression that Rose's accent was just more "street", like she was hardened by the life of being a renegade inter-dimensional alien fighter. Like when Martha traveled the world as a resistence leader, that sort of thing would change you (although I guess Martha is the one that got to hang out with all sorts of "common" people, while Rose was running with UNIT).
But from looking at the "next week" clips, is she the villan now? -
it's the only way dammit
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Not sure where I read it, but I'm certain that Rose IS in the Christmas special. Wonder if her new teeth have their own trailer?
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After some time looking for the dr. she becomes an insane person and she gets chucked into a looney.
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I've done some snooping and it looks like (the red dalek) is Harriet Jones, which is a bit of a shame. That could be false information purposefully leaked but she is in the two parter so it makes sense.
Slight change of subject: Who is the post tenent Doctor? ANyone heard anything???? -
your comments about john simm reveal you to be a twank
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Since Moffat is taking over Dr. Who, i thought the uk viewers might like to know that the series he wrote in the eighties- press gang is now available to stream on ITV.COM it holds up incredibly well. If you've never seen it, it's moonlighting for kids.
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I loved this series and already own the DVD I would recommend the first three series to anyone who wants to understand where Steven Moffat comes from.
Pure class
The gun seige 2 parter contains plotting that RTD would love to be able to write. -
the season 1 or 2 ending - I'll be happy. RTD wrote them didn't he?
if it's like the season 3 ending - not so happy. oh. RTD wrote that didn't he. -
What the hell are you guys smoking? That was *GREAT*! Maybe I'm missing something that the Brits picked up, and I'll admit that I found myself hoping that "Chinatown planet" was going to turn into a Firefly homage, but ANYWAY. Re: death camps - maybe not probable to you, but I buy it. In a situation like that described in the episode? Entire capital (including the British government) wiped out, radioactive cloud, things getting steadily worse? Sure. That kind of situation, I'd buy in my own America - maybe you've had a different experience this past couple of years, but it seems pretty clear to me how vicious people can get when they think they're fighting for their survival. Re: Plot Holes. Which plot holes? Or are you just going to talk about them without mentioning what you're talking about? Re: Billie Piper's teeth - I didn't notice anything. Actually, the only thing I noticed is how much she seemed to be imitating the Doctor (both Nine and Ten, I bet) in her dictation. WHICH MAKES SENSE FOR THE CHARACTER. Gah!
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Think someone else already covered this. Someone else got used in Donna's place; apparently someone else not nearly as effective.
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Maybe Astrid Peth did something, or that one midshipman trapped on the bridge. Or maybe Max Capricorn is just a screw-up. I could buy any of those possibilities.
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... okay, you got me there. Same with the guy who mentioned the Daleks in 1930's Manhattan. Maybe the bug's ability to warp time is limited? ... oh, hell, I don't know. But hey, I didn't think of it during the episode. -
That was just great. Totally brilliant plus plus plus.
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... but wait - maybe there has been but we don't know it yet? What if something else escaped that bubble universe that was created by Donna turning right before it collapsed ...
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Yes, I agree with SpacePhil. They weren't really plotholes. It's obvious that if Donna wasn't the temp who gets filled with the particles then whoever got the temp job would be. Honestly, some people have been spoilt by watching all these American shows that spell absolutely everything out (twice) because they have to cater for 60 million idiots who voted for George W Bush (twice). I didn't need to watch any making-of show on BBC3 to understand what had happened. I just worked it out myself. It wasn't that hard. Bit of imagination. This IS meant to be imaginative television...
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But that was just crap. You must have all seen a different episode to me.
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I thought it dragged a bit. Then I thought Silence In The Library dragged a bit, but was redeemed by Forest Of The Dead answering all the questions with style.
Hopefully the season finale will give Turn Left some answers too. -
She sounded like she'd had a stroke or something.
I'd heard she forgot how to do Rose's voice, but surely they'd have noticed when filming & done something about it?
I found it quite distracting every time she was on screen.
Also, did her mouth look funny to anyone else?
Apart from that, Catherine Tate, I humbly kneel before you.
In true Daniel Craig style, you proved me wrong, and won me over.
Well done. -
If the Doctor died during the Racnoss adventure, who stopped the Pyroviles in Pompei?
Going to blame that one on Sarah Jane? Oh can't. She died on the Moon.
Torchwood? No, they died during the Atmos fiasco.
That's just one quite large plot hole. There are plenty more. I can't help it if you're too blind to see them. -
Maybe the bubble universe was only created from the point Donna turned right? So anything before this point was still the universe where Donna and the Doctor had met.
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I use the good Mrs. Jarv as my barometer with Dr Who. I frequently excuse some of the worst episodes but if she says it's shit then it probably is. On first watch I sort of enjoyed it- whereas she described it as "filler garbage". On rewatching it last night it occured to me that not only was she right, but she was being nice about it- it was DREADFUL. A fucking glorified clip episode dressed up as an alternative universe. I can't believe your giving this lazy bollocks a pass. It was shit. Not as bad as unicorn & wasp, but still pretty fucking awful- and nowhere near as good as last week. Which was meh.
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Were her teeth always so humungous? She looked like she could eat an apple thorugh a letterbox. Freaky.
I hope they kill her off in 13, Rose leaving was the best thing that happened to the show. -
Not having a pop, but it seems like every week in this TB you are slating the show. You may want to increase your viewing pleasure by, like, not watching.
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I've just found this series to be unbearably "meh". The only one's I've hated have been this one and The Unicorn and The Wasp. Adipose, Sontarren 2 Parter, Dr's Daughter did nothing for me- didn't upset me, didn't make me love them, last week's I had things I liked and disliked, Moffat's 2 parter I liked and this week's I loathed. Overall- it's a better series than last year, but really it's still mediocre.
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for several reasons: It diminishes her magnificent exit in Series 2; it's a painful distraction and it reeks of imagination failure. A bad, bad idea.
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Jun 23, 2008 6:29:16 AM CDT
Fair enough Jarv, I think this has been a good season...
by steve rogers
...and I liked season 3 too! (the run from Human Nature to Utopia was absolutely EXCELLENT, so many great moments there).
This series, I didn't think much of The Doctor's Daughter. That was underwhelming (in the same way as that cack-handed Dalek two-parter from series 3 was).
I liked the Sontaran double-header a lot. Christopher Ryan was superb in it.
I entirely agree that bringing Rose back is cock. Mind you, I'd also be happy to go an entire series without a Dalek story. They seem totally played out to me. -
was good. Utopia to the end wasn't. Last series failed for me because I couldn't stomach Martha mooning after the doctor in every episode. I quite agree, the Dalek 2 Parter had 2 of the worst episodes I've ever seen (Squidaward!), and I'd rather they gave Daleks a rest for a while- the more exposed Daleks become the less effective.
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I thought was really great: Jacobi regenerating into Simm, the look on Tennant's face as he realises that not only he is not alone, but that the Master is back, and then them all being stranded at the end of the universe - loved all that stuff. Thought it was a bit bungled in the follow-through, but mostly because the Master became a completely OTT lunatic (turning the Doctor into Gollum and robbing us of many Tennant/Simm scenes was also a wrong 'un). Can also live without any more resolutions that involve the Doctor and/or companions fiddling with a big machine that will fix everything.
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was dreadful. Any way you look at it. I'm also sick of the reset button that they keep using
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Go through his tenure as the show runner and you will find that part ones are always better than part twos for some reason. I am a little worried that this upcoming finale will be the same. He is gonna cram so much in. too much in fact.
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... in a lot of ways. The moff one last series (blink?) was excellent and saved it but the master 2 parter could have been better. I would have preffered he escaped to be honest. The less said about the human dalek and the pig faced helpers the better. What a waste of "the cult of scarro". Hopefully they will be seen in the coming two parter to better effect.
This series has been pretty good with the odd mix of comedy and horror not always working but interesting nonetheless.
Personally I'm not against Rose coming back for this story as long as it holds some gravitas which it certainly seems to judging by the comments I've seen. I'm more concerned about what the specials will be. I've read that Jennifer "Ab Fab" Saunders will be the doctor in one of them -NOOOOO! -
Theyre actually comtemplating a different actor for each of the specials. that will kill off the show completely. But they might be trying out different actors to see which one the audience like best. They might as well film the auditions and get graham norton....to...host and iam not going there. Whos it gonna be?
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... the new doctor will be an older guy. I think the favorite so far is James Nesbit of "Jekyl" fame. He would be cool imo.
The Jennifer Saunders rumour holds water by the way, as she has commented on it and said it's only for a special and she won't be in it after that. I don't think they would be stupid enough to do a different regen for each special, so I'm guessing she will be an inbewteen version from Tennet to Nesbit. Whilst I'm here -wild stab in the dark, but I think one of the specials will centre around the doctor's daughter rather than have her have her own spin off. -
Why oh why would Billie Piper get teeth that never fitted her installed for her Who return?, she could not speak properly. That was an amazing episode, really exciting and showed RTD is an amazing writer, sorry to carry last weeks fight over, Steve Rodgers if you don't like it don't read my post but I have never stated I hate straight people, that's just what Spud and Jarv scream a lot to excuse facing up to the fact I have a point, they may not wish to see or accept it but its there and I have stated it a lot, Jarv you say I have no point to make?, you are wrong, go read back and try again, Spud you say I am a hater of straight people and I need to see how I am a hypocrite, I say your an insidious man who spreads his own hate way more than I ever have and then runs down his accusers without answering the points you claim they don't make, go read last weeks talk balk and also try again. I am looking forward to the two part conclusion, its gonna be a blast.
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I had to Wiki a house elf, what I think LJ means is that to him seeing the doc as shrunken and wide eyed very old man reminded him of a Harry Potter character he knows of, to the rest of us he just comes across like a nutter screaming "Dobby" every-time a discussion of that finale arises, I enjoyed last years finale, its exciting and does not just copy the year before and tries something new, if you do not like seeing certain story lines maybe New W"ho is not the show for you?, it has a broad pallet and I see a lot of people bemoaning it for doing things they do not like, maybe if you could learn to like more than what you perceive to be acceptable you would get this amazing show better and more often?, just a thought.
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Will. Not. Happen. He would be fucking rubbish as well.
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We were perfectrly happily talking about Doctor Who for a few moments there. Not about straights and gays and how much you love or hate one or the other. Does anyone care? No. Please let's keep talking about Doctor Who.
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You are boxing me in, I have to accept what is written about me without response now?, not fair, I love Doctor Who and if you recall I started out here all shiny and excited for new Who, over the last 4 years as certain low IQ posters have demeaned me, took every humorous comment I made and twisted it into something insidious and attacked me for daring to act equal my happy nature has devolved into something akin to what you see now. I never started this discussion/argument Rodgers but I ain't walking away from it either, I told you not to read if its annoying you and I'm sorry to bug you, I really actually hate coming here now, wondering what shit I will face and what lies Spud will spin to justify his ability to hate. I loved Saturday nights episode, the reuse of all the music from the shows inception, the fact Donna stood tall and proud and was prepared to sacrifice herself made me cry, Rose return was low key and well done, she is not the story focus but a part of the whole, very clever, shame, as mentioned about the bad veneers but she is no pig in a wig as my ex calls her, the way we got to see the docs influence or lack of was gobssmakcing to me, very simple idea but very cleverly realised, the Titanic crash on London was amazing and as always Bernard Cribbins and Donna's mum, sorry don't know the actresses name, are fucking great, they made me cry and deserves a Bafta or some recognition for there work. If you yourself where a hated minority and attacked from all sides would you not wish to defend yourself Steve?, if you are the hero you call yourself I am surprised you would oppress any struggle for equality or acceptance.
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We were discussing the pro's and cons of Who. No-one mentioned homosexuals. No-one tried to box you in, and yet here you are, bleating away. You have "started it" this week. Now bugger off while the adults talk. I liked the first part of last year's finale but despised the second part. Why can I not be critical of something that I generally like- even if I have been disappointed in most of this series?
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Jun 23, 2008 9:43:08 AM CDT
I have been on holiday and just saw your answers to me in last w
by smashing
You say you never do anything to deserve me being mad at you but your language and demanding attitude are sickening to me, you silly oaf.
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I answered you last week. I don't want to go back to that TB- it wasn't fun, and you completely ignored what I wrote to recycle your usual bigotry. Leave it and move on- I'm happy to be in the minority with this week. I didn't like it, everyone else did. Fair enough, it would be a dull world if everyone liked the same things.
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... he plays the same Oirish lightweight in everything he does. The guy has no range. He even manages to make Sean Connery sound like the master of a thousand accents. Best thing he did was those Yellow Pages ads, and that ain't saying much. Fuck him!!
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It's a truly rotten idea.
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In no way do I think that someone being "attacked" should not defend themselves (I think to say you are in a "hated" minority is a bit strong, but fair enough, is your experience).
What I AM saying is that last week's TB degenerated into a load of insults and what did it solve? Nothing. You have said what you have to say - many times. I think you should just consider your point made and leave it there. I do not take anyone's side in the argument, I merely think that for everyone's sake we should leave it in the past, where it belongs. You are never going to achieve anything by rehashing the whole thing week after week, except perhaps to piss people off who would rather just talk about Doctor Who.
Equally, this applies to everyone arguing with Smashing over whatever the hell you were arguing about. Please let's just kill it off. -
RIGHT. ON.
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The guys is pretty good. He was great in Jekyl -showed a good range there (child like psychotic vs stilted depressive). It's all about the writing. If Moff was to go with him I'd be happy. Accent doesn't bother me either way (salford accent didn't hurt Eccelston who is also always the same) as long as he does justice to the character as written.
Anyway, I'm not trying to start a debate, but if it does turn out to be him, try to reserve judgement a little and see how it turns out. Could be good, could be bad.
Personally I would like Paul Bettany or Alan Rickman but that just ain't gonna happen. -
You can't reason with him. He just gets increasingly shrill and strident.I could go back and dig up that dead TB, but I'd rather leave it dead.
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Not ever going to happen though.
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Matt King. That's right, "Super Hans" from Peep Show. He always seems to be able to bring out fun 'quirky' personalities to his roles, and it'd certainly be an interesting and bold casting choice. Never happen though.
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There's so many potential Dr's out there- but you know the Beeb will default to Nesbit.
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Jun 23, 2008 10:30:17 AM CDT
Why do people think there'll be a different doctor in each speci
by v'shael
Where is that rumour coming from? Is it The Sun? In which case it's bollox. Or something else?
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It's such a terrible half-arsed idea that I really wouldn't be shocked if it was true.
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He's pretty cool, but not a lead actor.
I know he's a bit leftfield but I think Richard Coyle would be pretty cool -he's worked with Moff before (he was brilliant in Coupling), he can do serious and Comedy. I don't think he'd do it though. BBC, please ring his agent!! -
I don't think there is a concrete rumour saying that, but Tennent is only in one of the specials (apparently)and Jennifer Saunders is rumoured to be in another (as reported by Tab Rag the Daily Star I believe, but the info was gleened from an interview with her).
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Yeah some of it was ok, it was interesting to see life if the Doctor had been killed, but the plot to get to that point was extremely ludicrous.
"Ok we need to get Donna to look back over her time with the Doctor and see what it would have been like if she was not there".
"Ok lets have some bug that feeds of time when it makes people have diffrent choices"
"How we goona do that"
" I know they are on a Chinese planet and some mystical women wnast to tell her future, the Chinese are all mystical, people will accept that"
" Great idea, then we can really tell the story I want to"
Meh....
Typical bad writing by RTD, he does some good bits, but essentially he cannot string his plot points together enough, things tend to just happen
Also...whats up with Billie Pipers lisp, she looked like she could chew an apple through a letter box
I dont want Billie Back, Donna is best asisstant the new series has had, and no one wanst to see Martha back, but there she is again in next episode, yet I hear that Ms Piper is consideringa return, probably bcause she is not getting enough parts elsewhere as she thought she would.
Lastly...if London blew up, why would the rest of Britain become a crap hole?
There is no military bases in London, the government would have had time to go into Nuclear bunkers, every other city would be cool...Most would die so relocation would not be that difficult, why would there be no jobs and suddenly they would start gassing foreigners? It does not make any sense. I live in Glasgow, if London blew up tomorrow, how the hell would that affect me ( I know it would, but not as extreme as in programme)
I cant wait for this guy to leave, he is an imbecile
The only decent finale he ever wrote was the original Bad wolf in series 1 (Reboot), every other one has been a let down
This one looks like another Bad Wolf, how many times does he have to destroy the Daleks, it would not be so bad if he didnt wipe them all out every time, the old doctors just rpevented them doing things in certain places so you always knew they were out there.
I will watch, but not too confident of the outcome
Last weeks Midnight I felt was much better IMO. -
except he leaves a few things out-The beetle thing on Donna's back looked like plastic. The Torchwood reference was just lame. One thing though, Tate has grown on me over the series, but I still keep thinking that her default expression is gob hanging open like she's had a stroke though. The only performance of hers that made me want to kick the telly was in that utter shitfest the Unicorn and The Wasp which wa her recycling her lame comedy persona anyway.And don't bring Martha back- they proved last series that they didn't have a fucking clue what to do with the character- Donna has been a vast improvement.
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How about that guy, he's kinda tall, a little thin, dark hair, I think his name is DAVID TENNANT!!!! After doing the 4 "Bank holiday Specials" and that other thing, he might be free to do season (series) 5. what do you all think? I personally think he PERFECT for the role, but, that's just me.
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I agree about the Beetle and Torchwood should be wiped from all our memories by a surgical procedure, not forced into Dr Who
I dont agree about Tate, I think its her comedy skill thats so good about the character and thought Unicorn and the Wasp was an ok episode, but only for her comedy performance, and coming after the terrible Daughter of the Docs episode, anything would have been good.
Basicaly I ahted Tate in the Runaway Bride, and was shocked to see she would be companion this series, but I actually love her in this role.
She is a counter to the Doctor, she disagrees with him and does not follow him with puppy dog eyes.
She just seems more like a realistic companion that would amuse the Doctor, but in no way any sexual connection, which I like.
I am one of those that thinks the Doctor is well beyond having a loving adult relationship in the way they suggested with Rose and Martha wanted to have. He has been there and done it, perhaps another time lord may interest him of there were any, but not any of those young girls he runs about with.
Actually thing I hated most about th recent Moffat 2 parter was the fact that that woman was supposed to be eventually more than a a companion for him, she just was cast wrong if thats what they wanted to show.
Anyway to sum up I like Donna and would love to see her stay as long as Tennent does, dont brng back Martha ever again, leave Rose in alternate universy place and when Tennant leaves, replace Tate as well IMO obviously.
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and far preferred Dr's Daughter to Unicorn. But I do agree that the best thing has been having a companion that doesn't want a piece of timelord cock. That last sentence is spot on.
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Would be happy to see her back, provided they wise up and don't make her defining character trait the fact that she wants to bonkl the Doctor. She was betty than old Big Teeth Billie at any rate.
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Bonkl? Betty? Dear me.
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London blowing up would have he same effect on the UK as New York, LA and Washington DC blowing up on the USA. London isn't just the UK's major city it is one of the world's major cities. It would leave a major economic hole in Britain.
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I still haven't forgiven her for her music. Martha was potentially a great character that they wasted by having her traipse around every episode like a lovesick puppy.
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I think they are trying to grow Martha's character by having her move past the Doctor ala Torchwood.
Donna has been good this series but agreed her debut was crap. As a charcter she is a little limited though. She should go after this series. -
Yeah your right in a way, but it would not be concentration camp stuff even if it happned to NY or Washington
Jericho is a much more realistic response from those events, though I lost patience with that show this series
Yeah Marth is cuter than buck teeth billie, but her charcter had no soul whatsoever
Its all matter of opinion and the current pairing is the one I have enjoyed most so far, even though I think its been hampered by a bad series story wise IMO
Jarv, normally you and I agree on Who, but I dont know how you can forgive the daugher episode, I hated that, it did not make any sense from start to finish, like how can that guy be so old and not know what happened 7 days ago?
Why were there bunsen burners on the end of the bent guns, that could not possibly fire bullets?
Why could no one except the main characters run more than at a slight jog?
It was just shockingly bad to me
Unicorn was a bit stupid, but a big improvement on week before IMO
The writing of this series has been quite ghastly IMO, even the Moff episodes were not as good as his normal stuff, but it was still better than anything else this series. -
For those not in the UK, here are the teaser and trailer for next week:
http://tinyurl.com/4chs69 (dalek teaser)
http://tinyurl.com/4svxjq (full trailer)
You're welcome. -
Why are some people so thick? When she was referring to his age she was not talking about his outward appearance you fools. We'll probably never see the River Song stuff, or it's sown a seed for years to come. It's not meant to ellude to the next season or even the next three.
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AS life long fan of dr. who. I grew up with who and watched all incarnations. I can remember a time when the bbc bothered to repeat the original series. I grew up watching dr who from tom baker onwards. The thing I loved about Dr who were the ropey sets and the limited budgets. I have gone on record here about my disdain for perry and how utterly crap Sylvester mCoy era was(i grew up watching him on tiswas and Eureka or was it jigsaw). I even watched the paul McGann movie. So when it was announced that Dr who was coming, I was stoked. I loved Rtd Davies opener. Now I will admit that I missed out on the radio stuff and the webisodes. I loved Dr who growing up as did my brother and we also loved Blake seven. Back to who.....
I have grown tired of RTD's stewardship of Dr. Who. Every episode seems the same, characters doing the same things. and that means running. or Tennant(who has been great as dr who)mugging. It is now season 4 and dr is on his third assistant.How many more assistants will have he have to go through. This never would have happened and never happened(i could be wrong) with the previous dr whos. whats with the nagging mothers. There is one thing i will salute RTD and that is bringing back Bernard Cribbins to Television. WEll done. When press gang was on it was the reason I stopped watching Grange hill. there was always something more real world about Press Gang. Greating acting, great scripts and great direction. Those who have been harsh about RTD. He was responsible for some of the best Childrens dramas of thier day. He does of have a talent for writing. But it is time for him to move on. Talkbackers are fickle and they will lynch Moffatt after he writes his 2nd duff ep. they are kind of like statler and waldorf. Waldorf more like. I welcome Moffatt as the showrunner. And am looking forward for this series having a breathe of fresh air with moffatt in charge. -
After the library episode on Doctor Who Confidential Moffet said River Song is very important, so keep an eye on her as she will be playing a very important part in what's to come.
Now seeing as he invented her and he's the new showrunner, I expect she'll be coming back.
As for the old thing? I'm assuming her doctor is an older guy.
Either that or Moffat is bluffing and it's a throwaway thing and they will never come back to it -which I doubt, as Moffat doesn't work that way. It'll be intersting to find out anyway.
at emeraldboy: What was Moffat's duff episode? None spring to mind for me. -
You watched the original series because you loved crap sets and cheap budgets. That explains why you don't like the new series so much.Fortunately, the new show doesn't cater to people who want a show that looks like crap. I watched the original series *despite* the wobbly sets and whatnot. I watched it because when it was on its game, the stories and performances were terrific.
I just hate it when people say they loved the crap sets and stupid rubber monsters. I mean, are you brain damaged or something? -
I said I was going to drop the issue, but new challengers have emerged all righty then.
Go back to the scene with the soothsayer in "The fires of Pompeii." Thedoctor and donna are hiding their true identities. the soothsayer calls the Doctor Man from Gallifrey and Donna by name, further telling her she calls herself Noble, but there issomething on her bsck. the soothsayer is talking about the here and the now. the only time he predicts the future is when he tells the doctor "she isreturning." he does so for the added punch to reveal he knows not only their identities, but their future.
At that time, Donna did not have the beetle o her back. thus, it was a misdirection. You aresupposed to believe that he was speaking about the beetle and say to yourself, "Oh, that is what he meant" after watching "Left turn" so you will not be expecting there is something else about Donna that will come as a surprise in the finale.
Whatever is on her back allowed her to resist the beetle. it is not the beetle itself. the fortune teller said this when she was surprised at the beetle's failure. she knows there is something different about donna.
Then the doctor remarked the beetle usually affects time solely surrounding its host, but it built a whole alternate reality around Donna. why? because there is something about Donna, there is something on her back, apart from the freaking beetle!
There is something aboutDonna and has been from the beginning and in Pompeii. But it is not that beetle.
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in comparison to the new who. Maybe i am being a little bit nostalgic. The two part finale looks great. But RTd can blow hot and cold as a writer. and we all know it. Dr who under his tenure has been hit and miss. He does tend too rush things a little bit. He can be overly frantic and Tennant can be a little manic. NOting prepared me for how great the past season of torchwood was and the ending was fantastic. Like alot of people I am getting a little fed of up Barrowmans shouting. He has been doing that a lot lately and its like he his on something.
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has the Dr who dvd problem been resolved. does anyone know?
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Jun 23, 2008 6:36:10 PM CDT
Well, I guess we all agree, the new Doctor Who should be.......
by axcel1
David John McDonald!!!!!! YES!!!! You won't be sorry, he will be fantastic, no, he will be PERFECT!!!!
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Yes, old Who looks dated, but it's more than that. I've seen some BBC documentaries refer to old Who effects as "state of the art for the time," which is a load of crap. Old Who was financially constrained. We all know it. They made do with what they had.
Having said that, as I rewatch older episodes, I am struck by how SLOW most of them are. Seriously, almost all need editing. The stories just aren't there for 100+ minutes, and so we have endless corridor scenes and escapes to fill the void. (Watch Frontier in Space. I mean, it's Delgado's swan song and I love it for that, but really you could cut that entire thing down to roughly 20 minutes.)
Yes, I agree that RTD has had his ups and downs, but overall he's reinvigorated the series in a way that was sorely needed: tossing away the weight of all the continuity via the Time War, tightening up the pacing, and so on. Plus, while the psychic paper is a cheap device, it means we don't have to spend half an hour every time watching the scriptwriters cook up convoluted ways of injecting the Doctor and his companion(s) into the situation.
Yes, some of RTD's episodes are weak, but some are actually pretty good.
As to Barrowman...yeah, he's getting a bit old. Watching his occasional appearances in Who worked for me, but after watching a couple of seasons of Torchwood, I'm kind of done. -
That old Doctor Who was never as good as I remember it being.
One of my favorite epsiodes as a child was the visitation with Peter Davison. Watching that back now it's so slow and conveluted revisiting the same locations.
New who has to be much better because of the episode format but I've found the two parters to have much more time for characters etc.
I'm still of the opinion that the show should be an hour long. -
To a certain extent, I think you're right...but I think part of it is that TV has evolved considerably. BSG in particular has raised the bar; it's not good enough to just be SF anymore. When I was a kid, there was Trek TOS and Doctor Who, and not much else.
But it's true that there were certain recurring problems in old Who, and much of it IMO comes down to padding. Running back and forth along corridors, escaping and re-escaping, and so on. Like I said earlier, few old Who stories justify their length.
Another issue is that nearly all of the directors just did straightforward, classical-theatrical blocking, etc. Nobody ever experimented or tried anything new, pretty much, until Graeme Harper came along and did Caves of Androzani. Go back and watch that one. The pacing isn't bad, and the visual style is so different from most classic Who that it slaps you in the face. (And the cliffhanger at the end of part 1 stands as *the* *best* cliffhanger in the original series, period.) It's no surprise that Harper has gotten work on the new series, and his stuff there always impresses. (Utopia is pretty weak from a story perspective, but then again that's ok because Utopia's real purpose is to keep the viewer distracted for a while before the big reveal. Anyway, the way Harper handles the visuals of the reveal is wicked-cool.)
Finally, where original Who often went wrong was in ignoring its limitations. OK, you know you're budget-constrained and you know that the best you can possibly do in terms of special effects is CSO and dodgy models, right? So...lay off. Hint, suggest, give brief reveals, but don't give gobs of screen time to something that just looks ridiculous. It's one thing to accept the studio-bound look and everything like that, but no amount of willful suspension of disbelief can help when the giant robot in Robot comes on screen. It takes you right out of the story. Somebody on that set should've had the balls to stand up and say, "Uh, hey, everybody? Uh, you know this looks fucking ridiculous, right?" And don't get me started on Creature from the Pit.
On a related note, someone should've told Graeme Harper that the bug didn't work this week. Come on, Graeme, I expect better from you. -
Jun 23, 2008 8:43:11 PM CDT
Lastly...if London blew up, why would the rest of Britain become
by inwosuxred
You think London getting nuked after the second straight year of alien attacks wouldn't fuck up the UK? As for jobs, assuming other countries didn't outright ban the "Made in England" label, don't you figure it would be rejected by consumers in the market place? Obviously your tourism industry also dies instantly. Thus, you lose out on exports, you have a bunch of useless radiation victims filling up your hospitals, and no doubt your best and brightest would get out if they could. One year of alien attacks, fine, but who is going to stick around for the third annual alien invasions? That also ignores the larger theme that many of the Doctor's adventures never happened, and each time they were resolved by someone else with much worse consequences than when the Doctor was there to fix things.
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I guess I missed something...why would other countries ban "Made in England" merchandise, or why would consumers reject such merchandise?
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they also said in the episode that "the whole of southern England is flooded with radiation". So its a larger area than you think affected. And as mentioned above, it isn't just a city, its the economy, the skilled labour, the infrastructure running the UK inc various political partys and civil service elements as well as a lot of intelligence and defense centers. In comparison say if NY got hit then on the surface it may not affect say Dallas too much, but you can bet your ass that prices of goods will soar, troops will be redeployed etc. UK is smaller and the effect more pronounced as a result. Can we get past the evacuation thing now and back to the bug or Pipers overbite or something?
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Whos Bernard Chibbins then ;)
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Like Mr. Flibble said, they made a point of saying there was lots of radiation. Lots of products from the UK would actually be affected by that, and many outsiders would assume the worst about any product from the UK. Some countries would likely take the "better safe tnan sorry" route and just ban everything UK, at least until they had a reliable way to process things. Paranoia and irrational fear would keep people from buying the rest. If you have two identical products, but one comes from a country known for being contaminated with deadly radiation caused by an alien space ship, which one do you buy?
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...as some of you are implying. He did not say she would be important in terms of the rest of this series or the 5th. He just said she was important to the Doctor in the future. It could be read a number of ways. Don't assume that she will be back in the short term or the plot thread will get picked up anytime soon.
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Lots of it was simply wretched. However, It didn't induce TV shattering rage in me like Unicorn and Wasp. Crap dialogue ("flapper or slapper"), Crap performances (especially from Tate- it was painful), crap "comedy" (Donna snogging the Doctor, although to be fair, if that gigantic tumour came towards me like that I'd probably vomit smoke as well), The Wasp was just shit and seemed to induce some sort of epileptic fit in the actor, It was feckin obvious who "did" it (and the Agatha Christie storyline is no excuse), Agatha Christie was just wasted as an idea, Felicity Kendall was also wasted. It was sloppy farce masquerading as sci-fi and is one of the worst episodes ever made. Fucking hate it.
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She is quite shrill and her redness has been referenced a lot this series, does anyone know whom the white haired woman screaming for the doc to come back is in the trailer?, she looks like a ghost.
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Harsh but fair is how I'd put your reveiw of this episode - it IS technically a filler episode, though I think I enjoyed it more than you by the sound of it. I don't mind well done filler, and I managed to turn off my critical faculties enough to get through the show and enjoy it, then the fellas on here went and reminded me of some fairly hefty plot holes, and lo and behold, I'm back to "RTD ain't all that" mode. The whole point of Rose telling Donna to do what she did in order to get Past-Donna to turn left was pointless, as was all the hysteria over one nuke in London (would Leeds REALLY be THAT affected? I mean, labour camps?). Still, old One-Eyed Dav is back next week, and it'd be very nitpicky indeed to moan about THAT. Even though the RTD doubter in me is cautiously optimistic...
Smashing - What the FUCK are you on about this week? What crawled up your arse and died? Are you possibly on the rag? Do you have the builders in? (There is a male hormonal imbalance monthly, you know - there's no shame in it :D). No-one started any shit this week about certain subjects (maybe a notable lack of heavy-handed prosetylising in favour of a half-coherent plot did the trick) and off you go for a trolling run. Well, meet me in last week's TB if you want to tussle, bitch. Meanwhile, in THIS week's new-and-improved polite and considerate TB, the rest of us wil bask in the expectation of a corking penultimate episode - or another RTD shitfest, we're not sure yet... -
I have to say that when I watched it with the good missus Jarv before we went out, I thought it was meh and she said it was unforgivable filler wank. Then I made the mistake of watching it again on Sunday and it dawned on me that not only was she right, but she was actually being a bit generous. It was terrible. Regarding next week: I've got high hopes for it. I always like the first part of and RTD finale double. It's the second part that makes me want to kill puppies.
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How the fuck did Rose know how to build a time Machine? And did I mention the plastic beetle? Unfuckingforgivable on new who.
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I don't think Rose worked it out; I think alternate-Torchwood did. Or UNIT. Or whoever they were -- I can't remember for sure and I don't feel like rewatching.
Mind you, if that's the worst plot hole (it isn't) then that's not bad. Agree about the beetle, but I'll forgive Graeme Harper if he blows my sack off with the upcoming episode. (Metaphorically, I mean, not literally.) -
It does seem like he has trouble with doing an ending that justifies all the build-up:
(1) Rose looks into the heart of the TARDIS and becomes all-powerful and fixes everything
(2) The Doctor does some shimmy-shammy and the void automagically sucks everything back into it, and for that added bit of convenience, closes itself permanently. (Plus, did you notice how the incredible pull of the void -- which ostensibly can reach all around the globe -- was tidy enough to pull everything through a single window?)
(3) Donna somehow gets everyone on Earth to think "Doctor" at the exact right time, as the Doctor somehow linked himself into the Archangel network, giving the Doctor the ability to restore himself, glow, fly, and hurl laser screwdrivers across the room.
Yeah, I see what you mean. The only one that didn't totally frost me was the Doomsday ending...partially because I had enjoyed the ride so much, and partially I think because of the emotional impact of the split w/Rose, which IMO was very well done. So I kind of gave him a bit of a pass there, but let's face it, it wasn't great.
Come on, RTD...please no more Deus ex Machina endings, OK? No magic bullets, or magic time vortexes, or whatever. -
You pretty much nailed everything that bugs me about RTD finales. With a little forethought and smoothing over of logic holes, they could be pretty serviceable, but by God does Russ love his Buffy homages and Deus Ex Machinae. (Machines? Machina?)
Hoping and praying he gets this one right... -
I don't mind the Buffy homages. I don't even mind logic holes if they service a real emotional payoff; that Who even tries to do real character stuff now is impressive.
Unfortunately, the only one that really had a convincing emtional payoff was Doomsday IMO. The Parting of the Ways was too contrived, and while I get the whole "everything-is-changed-it's-just-the-two-of-us" thing, I wasn't sold on the depth of the emotion.
But even so, smoothing over logic holes is one thing. RTD needs to stop writing himself into corners that he can only get out of with magical über-things. -
When I wrote about the whole "everything-is-changed-it's-just-the-two-of-us" thing, I was referring to Last of the Time Lords, of course.
Blast these talkbacks and their lack of an edit button! -
All credit to RTD for reviving Who but I don't usually like his episodes. That on the other hand was pretty good. Still don't like watching Tate, but roll on the finale.
And regarding the complete nuclear destruction of London, 7 million prompt fatalities and the radioactive contamination of southern England: it would utterly cripple the UK on a scale way beyond anything you can indicate on viewer friendly teatime telly. Anyone who thinks otherwise really hasn't thought it through. We could soak the loss of, say, Sheffield. Losing London, not such good news. It's not just losing a fifth of the GDP in an instant, that's just a taster: think overwhelming the NHS with casualties, starting with the burn victims; then think banking; think massive bankruptcies starting with insurance companies all over the world; think what happens to stock markets and commodities; think trade, both physical and electronic. Doesn't matter if you're in Leeds or Glasgow, the value of everything you own just got wiped out, you won't have any credit, you won't have any money to buy anything, there won't be anything to buy. We'd be completely screwed for a generation, and it wouldn't be pretty. It would probably completely derail the global economy as well, even without 60 million Americans being eaten by their own fat (which was fucking bizarre, must have missed that episode...)
Surprisingly dark for Who. I like it! -
for an RTD episode. For starters, the lack of social and pop culture references(for the most part). Sure it re-hashed all of the RTD ep's from this season, and B. Piper wasn't on top of her game like last time. I think she could have been left out, because it takes away from the emotional impact of Doomsday. Either way, Russel did an okay job this week, and last week. I was totally gunning for last week's ep, and ended up liking 3/4 of the end. The initial setup of the previous week's ep felt like it wasn't DW, but that's RTD's way, I suppose. It's a shame the episode was Doctor-lite, but Tate held her own. I hated her in Runaway Bride, except near the end, and I despised most of the Adipose episode. After that, she has grown on me. A character who was just as annoying as Mickey(early on) who became more than tolerable. Despite my objections to some of RTD's cornball writing, etc. he made me like Donna, and a few other things. I'm a little worried about the next two weeks. Like many of you, I heard the reports about all of the guest stars, Davros, the Daleks, etc. I love Rose, and especially Sarah Jane, but having them in the ep's totally kills their final moments with the Doctor in previous ep's. I'm not sure B. Piper can deliver the goods anymore, but Liz Sladen should be fine. I haven't had a chance to watch Torchwood, or S. Jane adventures, so I think all of the other characters from those programs should be left out. As evidenced in the Five Doctors ep, too many guest stars are just so much filler. And mind you, I thought the Five Doctors was a good one. All of the participating Docs put in a good performance, and even some of the companions, but there were just too many. THe kids from Sarah Jane, and the Torchwood folks need to take a serious back seat in the action for sure. More with D. Tennant, Donna, Sarah, Rose, and maybe Jack. That will be more than enough to handle. Here's hoping RTD doesn't blow the two-part ending after maybe wowing us with a good second-to-last episode. ANd, let's not screw up Davros and the Daleks. I'm hoping they'll channel Michael Wisher's performance from Genesis of the Daleks. He was the best Davros. Don't get me wrong, the fellow from Destiny of the Daleks, and Terry Molloy from the 5th, 6th, and 7th Doctor years was good, but the directors, and writers usually hammed him up too much. *fingers crossed* And, can't wait for next year's specials, and the Moffat era!
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Adipose in the latest episode. I could have done without that episode that was about as far from real DW, like love and Monsters. Partners in Crime was definately the worst of this season. We need more Ewok cutesy factor in Doctor Who, don't we?? Short of that, Russell did provide a better than average footage-fest with many a plot hole.
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the Duane Dibley comment was hillarious. I can see Danny "Cat" John-Jules now. "Duane Dibley?? Dwayne Dibley?? Duaaane Dibley??" Ah, the first 6 seasons of Red Dwarf, and few classics from 7th season. Great comedic television!
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bellwether has it correct. London's one of the major financial centers of the world. While it stands to reason that the US and other nations would offer massive amounts of aid, the global economy would, *at best*, take an enormous hit. (And yeah, 60 million Americans being eaten by their own fat would instantly cripple the largest economy in the world, which certainly would fuck the UK's economy up all over again.)
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Agreed about Davros/Michael Wisher. I didn't care at all for the guy in Destiny of the Daleks (but then again, there's not much to like in Destiny anyway); I thought Terry Molloy (5th/6th/7th docs) spent too much time screaming.
Having said that, the brief bit in the trailer sure echoed the Michael Wisher Davros, so I have high hopes. -
about Destiny of the Daleks. I thought the guy was alright. And, I like the episode, as well. To me, it's still in that era before JNT changed DW a little too much. He certainly cut Tom Baker's balls off, and it showed in his later performances just before Davison arrived. Still like a lot of ep's from Tom, Pete, Colin, and the rest from JNT's run, but the Romana, Leela, Sarah and Harry run was superior to TOm's later run. But, I digress. As for Molloy, when he was reigned in, he was good. And yes, there was too much shouting. We do concur with regards to Michael Wisher. Fingers crossed that Russell gives a decent two-parter finale(I.E. the 1st season or 2nd season)and not so much the final episode of last season.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on the episode (and season); to me, season 17 was, with the exception of City of Death, utter crap. It was when Tom was at his most excessive, and silliness became more important than storytelling. I'm not a huge fan of Doctor Who as camp. As for DotD, the Daleks were at their most ridiculous. The whole march thing was embarrassing; why does a company of Daleks need a Dalek cheerleader constantly repeating pap like, "LET NO-THING STAND IN YOUR WAY," "SEEK -- LO-CATE -- EX-TER-MIN-ATE," "DO NOT DE-VI-ATE," and so on. Utterly impossible to take them seriously.
And yeah, JNT had a lot of faults, but IMO reigning Tom in a bit wasn't one of them. -
Some of the Dalek talk has always been embarrassing. ANd, Tom could get a bit silly sometimes. That said, I think there was usually a good mix of humor and seriousness during much of his run. And, I always liked him in that ep. BTW, we're in agreement about the greatness of City of Death. Love it. But, you could argue that he joked too much in that one, couldn't you? I'm not running down either ep. I've always loved City and Destiny. My friend and I always maintained that Dugan(from City of Death) would have made for a good short term companion. As for JNT reigning in Tom, I still have to disagree. I like episodes such as Leisure Hive, Keeper of Traken, and Logopolis, but he was too serious. Still good ep's, still loved Tom then, and still like much of the JNT era. Hell, I'm even a Colin Baker fan, apart from one or two eps, and the costume. Sylvester wasn't too bad, and Ace was great. Seems like they were trying to flesh characters out a bit more, etc. but episodes such as Paradise Towers, Survival, and Happiness Patrol, among many other S. McCoy's were horrible. But, these are just the thoughts of an American who has been watching the program since 1983 or 1984. hehe
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but can I just ask that they leave the Daleks in semi-retirement for about 5 years? I'm starting to get sick of the sight of them.
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I don't mind bringing back Daleks so long as they're actually SCARY - Which no-one's managed since DALEK way back in season 1. They were just being bitchy in that RTD-loves-HEAT-zlebrity way back in DOOMSDAY - "This is not war, this is pest control" and "We would destroy 4 million Cyberman with one Dalek" being the choicest quotes: ooh, handbag! - and pretty useless in MANHATTAN, as the hybrid was a man with 8 cocks hanging off his head (Dickhead Dalek!) and the dithering and hanging around was just stupid. In DALEK, Eccleston really sold the fear he felt at even seeing just one Dalek - especially after he thought he'd wiped them out forever - and you believed that one Dalek really could, if it had the opportunity, destroy every living thing on Earth. Come the ending of the S1 finale, they were just CGI fodder for the coming of Billie the Dalek Slayer. Grr-ARGH!
So we need a scary Dalek. Not sarcastic, not bitchy, not a fucking-Sex-and-the-City-catty-comments Dalek, but a mean, badass, only-speaks-to-tell-you-it's-going-to-destroy-you killing machine Dalek.
But then this IS RTD's swansong, so I'm expecting more sub-Buffy-isms and inane Dalek boasting. I really hope I'm wrong... -
In terms of S18 -- particularly Traken and Logopolis -- I thought the seriousness reflected the upcoming regeneration. It worked for me. Now I didn't like the Colin era *at* *all* because, ultimately, his Doctor was a dick. I don't want the Doctor to be a dick. There's a difference between, say, Hartnell's grumpiness or Pertwee's arrogance and Colin's dickishness. (My daughter and I were watching Revelation of the Daleks the other day, and she was stunned to hear the Doctor tell Peri that she eats too much. "Who would say that to a girl?" she asked. And she doesn't like Peri, either.) It mellowed a bit during S23, but unfortunately S23 was so incoherent that it didn't matter.
I didn't mind McCoy, although it's clear he doesn't understand the whole "subtle performance" thing; every line, every scene...overdone. And I did like Peri, but I agree that most of his stories were crap. -
One of the great accomplishments of RTD's Who is indeed selling the Daleks as scary, terrible things in Dalek. I did indeed believe it was going to wipe out Salt Lake City and more.
I wasn't bother by them specifically in the S1 finale; I didn't like the ending as I wrote above, but the Daleks were still fairly impressive. I particularly like that they sent a squadron down to level 0 to kill the humans, just because they were there.
As for Doomsday...I dunno. I really did believe that four Daleks could wipe out the Cybermen, and the "pest control" line was so incredibly good that I wouldn't give it up for anything. (Don't get me started on the Cybermen saying "delete" as they kill things; now THAT sucks.)
And then came the NYC two-parter. Sigh. Russell, you made such progress with the Daleks. As spud says, they hadn't been scary since "The Daleks" and by the time of Destiny they were cartoon idiots and stupid lackeys of Davros. Even in Remembrance they were only mildly threatening thanks to the Special Weapons Dalek, and that was all undone by the ridiculous appearance of the Ban Roll-On Dalek.
But then...oh, Russell. Did it not occur to you that a humanoid Dalek with taliwackers hanging off its face would ruin everything? (Hey, I wonder if the humanoid Dalek was really crossed with that thing from Creature From the Pit.) You've really got some work to do now to restore the Daleks again, so don't fuck it up. I'm having trouble understanding how the whole Harriet Jones thing won't end up stupid, so tread carefully, Russell...we're counting on you. -
was absolutely AWFUL. I really think we need a series without them. Leave them offscreen for a bit so that when they turn up it is an event, rather than "oh yeah, here's this year's Dalek story. I wonder if that one with cocks on his head is in it?"
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Yep. I remember that one. Tom and company were good as usual, but that's the one(and I still have this on a vhs recording) in which the St. Louis public broadcasting station had a pledge drive during Doctor Who. One of the pbs employees refered to the "creature" as a hefty bag monster. You could tell the guy knew nothing about Doctor Who when he was trying to entice viewers to pledge with the "key to Tardis" item. Anyway, the creature did look like it had a sausage-like apendage. And, it was only more evident when Tom Baker tried to speak into the apendage. hehe good times!
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were great episodes despite the lack of humor. Don't get me wrong. I love both of them. The ones I haven't seen in ages are some of those Adric/Romana/T. Baker ep's. I bet I haven't seen Full Circle, State of Decay, and countless others from that time since the early 90's. I've got to get caught up on the dvd purchases. I've got all but about 12-15 of the current BBC/Warner Brothers DW discs. For anybody wishing to buy them, I wouldn't wait forever. I'm sure they won't go out of production anytime soon, but when they do...you'll get prison-raped on Ebay. It'll be double or triple the retail price to buy even the worst episodes.
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I suppose he came off as a dick with his portrayal, but I'll still enjoyed it for some reason. As for Peri, not in the top tier of companions, but I still enjoyed her. If only they had used her real accent, and not the fake American one. Either way, Peri was the ultimate (my term)"cleavage queen of Doctor Who"! Nobody will ever top that unless we get some Captain Jack buttock cleavage! I'm only joking. hehe
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I'm only slightly concerned about how the Daleks will be handled. Admittedly, Squidward Dalek was corny. If he had been anything other than a Dalek, I would have said they were trying to go for that old school Who-alien look. Parts of that Manhattan two-parter were okay, but in the end... I still think they've got too many guest stars in these last two episodes. Who will twist their ankle like Susan did in the Five Doctors. Who will be stuck waiting in the Tardis because there were to many people in the episode. I think it's self-serving of Davies to include characters from the spin-off programs. Don't get me wrong. I still would like to give Torchwood a fair shot, and I definately want to watch the Sarah Jane Adventures, but to foist the other characters on us(except for Sarah and Jack) is self-serving. What about all of the viewers who only watch Doc Who. I guess Davies has to have his big bang before he goes out. Technically, he's still involved with the mini-movies for next year, isn't he?
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hopefully by the time they go out of print, illusion or some other cable or ondemand network will have them all available for us to watch for free. Either that, or maybe BBC will come to their senses and find a way to sell box sets at a reasonable price.
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I have to say it was nice re-visiting season 1 again(for the most part). Rose was a pretty decent opener, despite hating Mickey early on. The manequins from the Pertwee era helped make for an old school feel, as well. The second ep(end of the world?)felt like old school who with the assortment of aliens, etc. Other than a couple of RTD self-serving pop culture music moments, and his thinly-veiled commentary on plastic surgery(a.k.a. Cassandra), it was a good episode. Unquiet Dead was up next. What a great episode from Mark Gattis. Yep. The one with Charles Dickens. Great, great, great. Better than the Shakespeare episode, and far superior to the Agatha Christie ep. The World War Three two-parter was good in spots, and cheesy in others. I've heard rumors that the Sontarrans were going to be used, but the rights couldn't be worked out, so we got the Slitheen. Didn't hate them, but the farting got really old after awhile. Not the best ep's ever, but not too bad considering the were RTD's. Dalek-best of the season so far, with Unquiet Dead a close second. Best Dalek episode yet, and one of the new series classics. I'm sure I'm forgetting the order of the episodes now. The Empty Child and THe Doctor Dances-sheer DW goodness. Moffat's first ep's for the new program. He knocked it out of the park. I liked Captain Jack a great deal, even though they kept playing him up to be a guy who hits on everybody(when we're trying to break stereotypical molds). The character who was hording the food during the air-raids (and having it off with the meat man)was only wedged in for the sake of societal-preaching. Otherwise, a stellar effort. Was Father's Day next? Paul Cornell's first for the series. ANother instant classic. What else can be said about that one. Boomtown-uugghh. I'm not totally against the Slitheen, but RTD had to do a touchy-feely, Doctor takes the Slitheen out for dinner piece. Utter garbage. The Slitheen could murder millions, and we'd have to give thme a second chance. yadda, yadda, yadda. Then there's the two-part finale with the Daleks. I'm not a big reality tv fan, but RTD is, so yet another self-serving pop culture reference for the man himself. Despite the Big Brother crap, and one or two other cornball moments, these were great. We all know that RTD's ep's are either occasionally great, sort of good, or really bad. Well, these were the great ones. That's kind of my(out of the blue) half-assed summary of season 1. Just happened to watch it again, and felt the need to rant. hehe
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I hope you're right. I bet we'll never see those boxed sets, however. Then again, that would be my luck. Thankfully(when original Star Trek was initially released) I had only bought a dozen of the two-episode discs, before they re-released them on season sets. I remember reading a comment from Paramount that there were no plans at the time for an ST:TOS boxed set, so I took my chances. Thankfully, I was able to get those sold, while not losing too much money. Maybe it will happen for Doctor Who, but I suspect we'll all be at least 60-80 years old when it happens. My theory-most of the old story arcs are the equivalent of 1 and half to 2 hour movies, and will be sold as such. I have mixed feelings about that. The good-we get tons of interesting special features, galleries, and commentaries that we might not get on a boxed set. The bad-we're out a lot more money(maybe) and it will take years to get all of the story arcs(minus the missing Hartnell and Troughton stories). ON the matter of the missing Hartnell's and Troughton's,-they've got the audio for many, if not all of those ep's. I'd be happy for them to do completely animated version of those just as they did partial animation filler for Troughton's invasion story. Great stuff. I'd totally buy them. It's better than not having them at all.
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If you're a new viewer, you may never get some of the stories, and if you discover a period in the show you enjoy, you don't get a complete picture and you've got giant holes. The high prices always bothered me, although I'm guessing like all DVDs they're starting to drop as people are losing interest in having their homes overstuffed with silly silver coasters they never watch. I do think they are rapidly approaching the "now or never" when it comes to releasing some big and sensibly priced sets. You aren't going to have a huge market for DVDs in 10-15 years, and who even knows if you'll have a show on the air(I hope we do, but who knows) to help you market them.
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That said, there will still be that crowd of people, perhaps 30-somethings on up, who will want something tangible in their hands. Be it an actual dvd with a cover, or a cd with a booklet. The download on demand will be great in many ways, but there will still be a thriving(and sometimes very expensive)market for cd's and dvd's whenever downloads take over. Electronic formats may take over completely(newspapers, magazines, cd's, movies, tv shows, etc) but some people will still long for, and buy the old stuff. Hell, I might be one of them.
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Jun 27, 2008 8:18:43 AM CDT
I ain't been this excited for a TV show conclusion since DS9's f
by smashing
Roll on Saturday, my local comic dealer says is 100 percent that Harriett Jones is the red Dalek, why or how he know now, I'm intrigued to find out.
Pipers veneers settle in and her lisp becomes less pronounced, says a mate who claims to have seen this weekends show already, is she a liar?, time will tell me.
Roll on Saturday, also I liked the worm headed Dalek, it may have helped he was templated on the sexy Solomon, I don't know what y'all cocks look like but mine don't look like that Daleks side-head at all, they where worms! -
Let's face it...RTD is doing this one. Will it be the same formula again? WE've already got bad wolf, which has been played out long ago. Donna just saved the world ala Rose's dad in Father's Day(well, sort of). And, will RTD do a big reset switch from the first and third seasons? Guess we'll know today and next week.
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