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'Dent! Jesus, I thought you were dead!' 'Half.'
SPOILER ALERT !!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. You've probably heard about this scene... now, thanks to the Joker's website, you can see it and get your first moving glimpse (and I use that term loosely) of Two-Face! Thanks to Bobby for the heads up.
DON'T GO TAKE A LEAK OR YOU'LL MISS HIM!
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What a great scene.
May be a great movie! -
Just wonder if it will be an after-credits scene.
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And Joker is gonna give it to them.
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From what I can tell, he looks like that picture that leaked on-line about a month ago. And that was fucking badass!
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This Movie is half-Awesome & Half-LEGENDARY. What up.
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Two-Face will be seen in all of his 1/2 gory glory. There is even a small glimpse of him in the second trailer. When Dent says "die a hero" you can see him holding a gun. And you can see some of his scarring.
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Jun 16, 2008 11:41:08 PM CDT
OOOOHHHHHH IIIIIITTTTT WWWIIIILLLLL KKKKIIIICCCCKKKK AAAAAASSS
by particularly hard vato
My wife told me to drive like we were going to miss Batman so we would not be late to our hypno birthing class tonight!!!
She rocks. -
To everyone complaining about the rumored 152 minute running time, what's with all the fuss? In all of Nolan's films, never have I once felt there were issues with his pacing. I think he's one of the few directors working today that knows how to keep a story moving and knows when to trim the excess fat.
Although I do think pirates 3 and spidey 3 were a wee bit too long o_O -
Jun 16, 2008 11:42:25 PM CDT
I heard they based the look for Two-Face off Heath Ledger...
by jkrow21
circa June 2008
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Jun 16, 2008 11:44:06 PM CDT
I want him to be a cold, hard, quiet, brutal killer of criminals
by particularly hard vato
Something completely in contrast to the Joker. Simple, get the job done, kill them personally- no theatrics. Like, holding some mafia guy's head under water, and walking away. Just an obsessed merciless killer of criminals.
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--that was hilarious. Tactless, but very funny. This could really, really work. But why is Two Face a vigilante? He teams with the Joker in the books? Doesn't matter. The Dark Knight will have the biggest opening in movie history; it's placed perfectly in the schedule and it's going to be the biggest moneymaker yet. BUT it still aint Iron Man!
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Jun 16, 2008 11:49:09 PM CDT
Regarding the plot being given away in the trailers
by bob of the shire
I've seen every bit of footage and read every report concerning this film and I'm still not totally sure about the plot. The main thing I'm not sure about is Two-Face. Originally I thought this film would just set him up as a villian for the third film but some of the comments from the set visits released today on Comingsoon and BoF (and a previous comment by Chris Nolan) seem to indicate that this film will wrap up Dent's story. It sounds like this film focuses on the rise and fall of Dent and the Joker is just a catalyst for this and for the increased chaos in Gotham.
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I want to see the whole thing. How much longer???
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I see that, according to the latest trailer, Batman still doesn't care much about being stealthy. I mean he is still driving the Tumbler and destroying walls and what not. I find funny that Commissioner Gordon jokes that "That's what he does"... well maybe in Nolan's movies.
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That was so fucking great. Best non-fuck ever.
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The movie is two and a half hours long, which seems a bit lengthy for just Batman chasing down the Joker. Again, I don't think the trailers are painting an accurate picture of what this movie's plot will really be.
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Want to see the notes get hit pure.
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Actually, not really. That was pretty funny... :)But, yeah... basically showing what happens to Harvey Dent on the internet is pretty dumb.Less is more.
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DAMN THIS CONSTANT FLOW OF SPOILERS!
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I love how you give it away in the headline. I mean, it's bad enough that the trailer had to ruin it. Christ almighty.
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Two-Face in name only?
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will be the best film of the year. Long Live Ledger.
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ouch
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DAMN THIS CONSTANT FLOW OF SPOILERS!
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Jun 17, 2008 12:41:21 AM CDT
RE:Uhhhh yeah.....no style to be found-- just like the first one
by britney spears rusted clit ring
Just like your opinions and writings.
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must happen a while after the actual burning occurs because if those wounds are fresh then whatever is in that shot glass would hurt like a bitch once it hits (whats left of) those lips.
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For Dark Knight. We are both almost pissing our pants with excitement for this film. I cannot fuckin wait to see this shit. It will easily be the best movie of the year.
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Jun 17, 2008 12:55:47 AM CDT
RE:Uhhhh yeah.....no style to be found-- just like the first one
by vintagecrow
You have to remember that this is the same guy that haunts all the Dark Knight threads bemoaning how Burton's vision was better.
Sadly he hasn't come up with anything new or original, kind of like his nick. -
You know, Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy!
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I say let it run long. The only major flaw in BB was the truncated opening act. If Nolan can tell the whole thing this time, all the better.
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I got goosebumps watching this. The summer sucks till this comes out.
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Hope it's not a jerk-off.
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but not entirely. I thought there were good things and bad things about Batman Begins. I thought that the pacing was a little off. And I also felt that the main score was a bit too repetitive and used in parts of the film that either didn't make good use of the score or needed a different tone from the score. Not only that, but Nolan's use of his trademark anachronistic filming and editing (i.e. Memento) was more of an annoyance than a "neat trick" sort of thing. It wasn't the kind of movie where that technique should've been used and it should've been left out altogether and the movie should've moved along a normal timeline. I mean, I wasn't sitting there thinking "Oh, wow, holy shit... I see what Nolan did with the timeline there... he inserted a scene from the past in there in between the other scenes... how cool and unique. Holy fuck." He really needs to not use that shit anymore. Memento was cool and original and everything, but he doesn't have to use that in every single one of his movies, and especially not the Batman movies. But aside from that, Batman Begins was pretty solid. Great characters. I loved the villains. I thought the ending could've been a bit better but oh well... seeing the Joker card at the end of the movie gave me chills so over-all I was satisfied.
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that was awesome! I can not wait to see this thing!! the anticipation is killing me!
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The great thing about BB is that it isn't edited like Spiderman or the million other superhero origin films. We start with Bruce in prison. This is a great way to start. How's he get there? Where is he? It's much more interesting than linear story-telling.
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This is looking better and better.
I have been hearing through the pipeline that there will only be two Batman Movies for a while. That it will be like Godfather and Godfather II in respect to seeing two halves of a story. Then, maybe they will do another one in a few years time when everyone is older, dealing with Robin...and Bruce becoming the father figure like his own dad.
As to the people who hate Nolan's novelistic approach to film...get over it. He is one of the few truly literate filmakers working today with big budget storytelling. He is the Anti-Bay! -
There is a misconception among some people that linear story-telling is somehow an artless or inferior way to go, and it simply is not true. You don't do your audience any kind of favors by supposedly "acknowleding" their intelligence and their ability to put 2 and 2 together by fragmenting the fuck out of a film. It serves no purpose other than for the audience members, in the car on the way home from the theatre, to discuss amongst eachother how the movie fit together, when really, the movie should fit everything together for the viewer. That's why they pay their $10 or whatever for the film, so they don't have to read a book but watch a movie that is linear and not disjointed and all over the place. Batman Begins didn't do this to the extreme, but it did do it to an extent, which slightly bothered me, but not enough to make me not enjoy the movie. But through the whole movie I got this sort of feeling that Nolan was trying to impress the audience with an intriciate, artsy-fartsy method of story-telling.
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Looks like I was watching The Sopranos. This is like Se7en, meets Godfather, meets Heat. With Batman. Wow.
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"And nobody cares about Two-Face anyway. He's a minor league villain compared to the Joker, Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman." Huh? If anything Two-Face is more important than the Riddler and the Penguin and on par with Catwoman since he was Batman's friend at one time, and why it took so long for Batman to treat Gordon as a friend. Batman still thinks he can 'save' Harvey.
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But I think I agree with dickblood... I've watched this scene a few times and something seemed just really bland about it. With all the hype over this scene it's actually kind of lackluster. I really doubt this is indicative of what the entire film will be like but as far as this scene goes it really does lack style.
So scarecrow is in this flick, right? IMDB has him still listed but I haven't heard anything... -
Jun 17, 2008 1:36:01 AM CDT
RE:he inserted a scene from the past in there in between the oth
by palooka_boy
so flashbacks are old hat now?
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Has anyone else noticed, in the most recent trailer - that if you watch right around the 1:06 mark, when Batman lands on the top of the white van and smashes the roof..... look who's driving the van before it gets smashed - it looks to me like Scarecrow. Anyone else seen this?
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Two Face is one of the most important villains, 2nd only to, of course, the Joker. They even slightly touched on the relationship between Batman and Two Face in Batman Forever (which is actually somewhat underrated and no where NEAR as bad as Batman & Robin).
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No flashbacks are not old hat now, but if you keep alternating back and forth between present day and the past with the scenes in the film it gets a little stale after a while. One or two short flashbacks in a movie is fine but when you put several of them in a film and they last for several minutes then that is something else entirely and it can hurt the film.
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I like how Nolan has continued to film it the Batman movies using horror styles. When Dent appears you can feel the dread in the atmosphere. Good stuff.
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Theres a difference between non-linear and flashbacks. BB was actually fairly linear, Bruce in jail through training returning to Gotham etc. The flashbacks are actually grounded in that initial structure, popping up through association or conversation or whatever. Its not arbitrary style for the sake of novelity though, structure wise BB is fairly typical story telling.
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today being a very sad day in the kingdom of fantasy makers, he has brought a little joy into all our lives...i hope that the first time i see twoface, i am forced to hold back the urge to puke...
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I thought it was something about the next Hitchhiker movie too. I was trying to remember if Author ever talked to Jesus and if Jesus called coming back from the dead being half dead or something like that.
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These are my observations based on the "The Dark Knight" trailers and "Batman Begins" film. I hope Dark Knight is better than Batman Begins 'cause I will be there opening night. The problem tho' is that there is still lingering vestiges left over from director Nolan's prior interpretative choices of the the Dark Detective: [1]Batmobile
might have been barely a passable design choice for "Begins", (I was NOT too fond of it) there seems no design evolution to Batmobile in new film. [2] Batsuit has evolved in it's design, but for some reason Nolan seem to have a aversion to putting a gold (or yellow) Batsign on the Batsuit's chest-plate. Odd especially since Nolan had no qualms making a gold (or yellow) Bat-belt. It would be nice to have a colour symmetry to the Batsuit. [3] Rachel Dawes nonsensical re-casting, Rachel's character in the first movie was the weakest link. Once the original actress was unavailable for the new film, The Dark Knight had a PERFECT opportunity to introduce a new female character without the baggage of the prior film. [4] Destruction, Batman seems to destroy more property than the Hulk, it would be nice to put some of them stealth skills to use. -
I remember hyping myself far too much for Burton's Batman and was bummed by seeing too much Joker and not enough cape. 20 years later and I'm actually hoping for MORE Joker and I'm over capes. I went to a costume party last week as Heath's Joker and lurved the make-up (a little too much, worryingly). I can't imagine what will top this in the third movie? Batman AND Two Face in Dark Knight? What villain could have more screen presence in 'The Shadow of the Bat'(?)
I Couldn't tell who was talking at the beginning of the Two Face scene. I hope the fight scenes are cut so we can actually see some moves this time. I have to play the Batman Begins game to actually see him fight. -
Begins was a solid but very flawed film. The pacing was a bit awkward, and the 2nd half of the film is just silly at times. It did a lot of thing right though, but what it did best was to make a great base for a sequel. Everything I hear about TDK sounds great. Goyer is not involved as much as he was in BB (the person I blame for the stupid plot points and silly dialog in BB). Jonathan Nolan is co-writing. And most importantly for me, Mann's Heat is a major influence for TDK. Heat + Batman is an extremely exciting combination, but also a difficult one to achieve. I have faith in Chris Nolan and his brother though, and my expectations are high.
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there was in the first film. all the destruction in the trailers (aside from the car smash) will be bad guy related.
Plus Rachel Daws couldnt just be thrown away, shes far too involved. im glad they didnt pull a Bond and just remove her from the story for no real reason. -
to everyone that say TDK will be the movie to beat this summer (box office wise), I have to say that Wall-E will probably be a much better earner.
Kiddies will flock like sheep to watch that, and so will everyone else. TDK will not be that popular with the ladies and kiddies as Wall-E. -
That this movie is potentially making the mistake of so many other comic movies by having too many villains! How many other superhero movie sequels need to make this mistake before someone figures out that too much is too much?
I am MASSIVELY disapointed to learn that Two Face is going to have a larger roll. I'm hoping he at least serves more of a purpose than Venom did in Spiderman 3.
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The number 1 spot will be Wall-E, probably hands down. Iron Man, however, has done VERY well (though Indiana Jones will edge it out...already over $100 million ahead worldwide according to boxofficemojo.com). My predictions (made several weeks ago) were WALL-E (#1), INDIANA JONES (#2), THE DARK KNIGHT (#3), IRON MAN (#4)...but they're all gonna be close...all around $300 million, which is great for the future of big-budget quality flicks.
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...who let's Harvey Dent by without a pass. Eckart High-fives him and says "You the man!".
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Anytime you need a guy to play a Chicago cop, Chicago union guy, Chicago whatever, you call Ron Dean. And now he's making his way into Gotham. That's pretty sweet.
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Some stupid, unjustified, vague accusation in the subject line without anything to back it up. And if the putz didn't see any style in BB, he needs to quit watching movies. Or just quit life.
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Completely agree - Batman has to be a horror to work, he has to scare the shit out of villains, preying on them from the dark recesses and alleyways. He always looks a bit goofy in bright light, because he's a man in a batsuit. But when you see a glimpse of horns and wings in the shadows, the character works, thats what makes these films effective - the tension Nolan builds as Batman hides in the shadows, seeing the response of the villains (and corrupt cops), who are terrified by this vigilante. If he's terrifying to the bad guys, Two-Face and the Joker have to be terrifying to us, not theatrical a la Nicholson and Tommy Lee-Jones - but demented, psychotic. For example, I heard someone say Joker should laugh at jokes that only he finds funny, twisted stuff, stuff that makes everyone else sick.
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Can someone explain to me how this could spoil the film for someone who doesnt know harvey dent is two-face????? If they didnt know that then there most likely not on sites like this looking at this! Its for geeks like us who are IN the loop. and its certainly nota trailer for the mainstream.
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TDK will have a huge opening and then drop off massively in its second week. It will still get a bigger box office than Iron man though. I'm not sure about Wall-E being that huge, I think it will be the same size hit as say "Cars" which wasn't great.
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Damn. And Harvey becoming two-face is about as much a spoiler as "Senator" Palpatine.
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Who is this that you speak of. I hope 2face only appears at the end- and then it nicely flows into part 3. But I like the Joker more, and love the look of this JOker.
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From the trailers it seems that Wayne and Dent don't know each other until his "love bunny" introduces them at a party. If they are not bezzie mates won't this effect the whole two face and batman guilt/redemtion dynamic? i.e. why would bats give a crap about him?
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Jun 17, 2008 6:39:42 AM CDT
Alcohol & cold glass on a half-torn off face = realism.
by jackpumpkinhead
In Nolan's eyes, anyway.
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what? It's not coming out this week? Mutha....I'm not concerned about the running time nor the amount of villains.
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...a good comic-book movie *and* keep it faithful to the sources - *and* not "reinvent" the characters to make them look like something vomitted out by a dog? Apparently, some guy named Favreau has done it recently. What was he thinking?
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BB was perfect until the climax with Gordon using the Batmobile and the whole elevated train hurtling toward the power plant and the station guy pretty much saying "brace yourselves!" That was kinda silly, but other than that it was a fine Batman movie. TDK is still my most anticipated movie of the year though, hands down...
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...it's called an artistic interpretation. Comic book guys do it all the time, they're called pencillers, inkers, etc... Didn't you get the memo?
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So plenty of time to develop all the strands. Bruce Wayne is already set up, and he is heavily involved in Dent's rise to power, Joker needs no explanation, Scarecrow will have 5 minutes tops. This film will rule.
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It isn't "realism". It's plausability.
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Nolan had better make everything else in this movie unbelievably awesome because the Batsuit looks like total fucking garbage.
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... you didn't read many Batman comics, did you? Isn't one of the best batman stories about a old man dressing up as a bat, fighting mutants and kicking Superman's ass?
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What is your name, Earth Creature.
Dent. Arthur Dent
Late as in the Late Dent, Arthur Dent. You see, it's kind of a threat... -
Too many summer films seem to be lessening their impact by giving so much away, so I'm skipping this and going into the film knowing only what I've seen in that trailer from a while back. That's enough.Anyway, I've got my fingers crossed for the traditional 'much improved second instalment' that we often get from comic book films. Batman Begins, while not totally my cup of tea, was still one of the better adaptations, so hopefully this will be a top notch sequel. It won't be as good as Blade II, obviously, but somewhere around Spider-Man 2 or X-Men 2 would be good.
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He should have paused, taken the drink, THEN said 'half'.
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Now I'm imagining how great The Dark Knight would be if Arhtur Dent was in it. He'd be following Batman around, drinking tea and moaning about stuff, all while wearing his bathrobe. That would be good. Arthur Dent would be a much funnier sidekick than Robin.
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Tony Stark > Bruce Wayne
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these moments that are being shown are going to ruin so much of the fun of the movie
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...but Batman > Iron Man and always will be.
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Iron Man > Batman.
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mmm...a pity. OK, is just another version.
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. . . I'm not looking at anything online or TV. I've let hype, especially AICN hype, ruin way too many flicks over the years. Part of the reason I liked Begins so much was lack of anticipation. Everything I heard and saw didn't seem right. I think I was even ready to skip it but my lame father-in-law, of all people, ended up dragging me to it Sunday morning, opening weekend. It blew me away and the rest is history. Now we're just weeks away from the sequel I've been waiting for since Gordon whipped out that Joker card. The hype is off the charts this time and I'm hoping like hell like it hasn't been too much.
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I don't like the sound of that "Hello"
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"Dent! I thought you was dead!"
>_> -
saving it for the movie.
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going to look rad.
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If the clip was too brief to warrant praise, it was too short to warrant the kind of criticism you seem to think it deserves. And as for 'style'-- Nolan's Batman has plenty of style. Tons of it. You just DON'T LIKE its style. You seem to maybe be confusing 'flash' with 'style'. If you want 'style' in that way, then go watch the Schumaker or Burton films, which are universally horrible, but have 'style' out the ass. Or better yet, just skip Dark Knight and go watch Speed Racer again. That seems more up your alley.
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I did end up giving it a shot, hoping it would wash the taste of Indy out my mouth. I thought the races and the visual style were really unappealing and obnoxious, but even so, come on-- "great writing"? Even you don't believe that.
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I say Begins had lots of style. Yes: I hate the batsuit, always have, but the whole batsuit thing began with Burton, who you seem to think had "balls" to try something different. I thought Begins had a very urban, kitchen-sink style; one that grounded it in a world not usually conveyed in comic book movies. I say the batmobile wasn't horrible; nor was the photography 'flat', not flat at all-- maybe you just miss spinning cameras and flying crane shots or something, but the cinematography in that movie looked great. As for the villian's master plan: this remains the part of comic book movies that NO ONE can seem to get right-- in every super-hero movie the villain's endgame or master-plan or whatever is always ridiculous and makes almost no sense (this includes Iron Man). So Rhas Al Ghul's plot didn't make sense when real-world science is applied? I've got news- not one goddamned thing in almost any escapist movie makes sense when real-world science is applied. Aaaaaand, as for 'risks', what, exactly, would a 'risk' constitute? Putting nipples on the batsuit? How about casting a little five foot two Jewish guy as Batman? Oh, wait-- I think that was two reasons I hated the previous four movies so much. All their 'risks' sucked hard.
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Jun 17, 2008 9:28:48 AM CDT
attacking dickbood might give you a social disease
by britney spears rusted clit ring
All I can say say...
Wait till you comment on a film "style" until you have seen it. I think that is a fair one.
PS Great Screenname ;)
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Jun 17, 2008 9:28:48 AM CDT
attacking dickbood might give you a social disease
by britney spears rusted clit ring
All I can say say...
Wait till you comment on a film "style" until you have seen it. I think that is a fair one.
PS Great Screenname ;)
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You are a silly douchebag and it sounds like you don't like good movies. Please pass away.
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Someone asked earlier if this would be after the credits. I doubt it since the news report on the TV is talking about the city evacuation. I would guess this takes place about 3/4 of the way through. Then again, who knows.
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Failure to abide = IP Block ;) (IWISH)
1.No more moronic posting of "first" everytime a new piece is posted.
Continue below... -
Failure to abide = IP Block ;) (IWISH)
1.No more moronic posting of "first" everytime a new piece is posted.
Continue below... -
You can't think of a movie that has done better father/son moments than Speed Racer?!? Finding Nemo, The Godfather, Road to Perdition, Catch Me if You Can, Frequency, Tommy Boy... these are just off the top of my head. Yeah, that stellar expositional Speed Racer writing, with the anti-capitalist moralizing and the cardboard characters each defined by one single trait, that's some great stuff.
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2. Dont double post like a fool! -
GET THAT SHIT OFF MY LAWN
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All of the sudden Iron Man fanboys (he's still a dick in the comics, btw) is just confounding. And to the poster above questioning how Bruce can care about Dent if he didn't know him, you are going to be in for a surprise this July.
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He says "Hi, Will."
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If I shit on a pile of mashed potatoes, I might be showing you something new, but it doesn't mean it's good. Iconic? I always though Keaton looked absolutely retarded in his immobile muscle-suit. The yellow Batman logo is gone; it was taken out the comic books a long time ago because it looks stupid. When Begins first came out, I bought the Burton Batman on the way home from the theater and watched it again. Couldn't believe how terrible it was. You're going to talk about how bad the villain's plot was in Begins? HOW ABOUT BURTON'S JOKER'S MASTER PLAN TO FIST-FIGHT BATMAN ON TOP A CATHEDRAL?!?! That was his big plan. Made a lot of sense. But if 'iconic' is the criteria for a good movie, then somebody should just do away with story, character and drama, and just have a bunch of poster-like money shots.
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Burton's Batman has not aged well. Nolan's film is far superior.
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not that this is necessarily criteria. I like both, but think both have flaws.
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1) Robert Wuhl-- grating, annoying, in the movie far too much. 2) The Joker-- a fat comedian getting off on being Jack Nicholson, and, of course, the focus of the whole movie (should've been called 'The Joker). That's not the Joker. 3) Kim Basinger as a war photographer (yeah, that's easier to buy than Katie Holmes as a lawyer). 4) Batmobile-- seems undriveable, it has a twenty foot long hood and has to shoot a grappling hook in order to turn at speeds higher than five miles an hour. 5) Batsuit-- hey, look, Batman can't move --Robocop had more mobility. 6) Michael Keaton-- not his fault, but Batman shouldn't be played by someone whose ass could be kicked by my little sister. 7) Joker's big plan: I'll lure Batman into a fist-fight atop an impossibly high cathedral! 8) The Bat-Wing-- Batman's got a big jet with machine guns which he uses to mow down criminal types. 9)Joker killed Bruce Wayne's parents, and we know because he always says that bullshit line about 'dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight'. This shit is stunningly bad. Begins had characters. Batman 89 had Anton Furst's production designs and Elfman's score and that's it.
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Dannyglover...
I see what you're saying about the '89 version being iconic in a way that Begins isn't, but to say there is nothing good about the trailer is just utter bullshit. The second trailer has to rate as one of the single best trailers ever released for a summer movie - the explosion of the building, the music, Ledger's laugh, the delivery of the line 'Why so serious?', the lip-smacking, the truck flip - all of it is bursting with sheer class. You're also taking a shit in the wind if you think there's going to be a massive drop in box office after the first week. That's only going to happen if they've made a crap film and negative word of mouth starts spreading, like it did with Ang Lee's Hulk. Considering that Nolan's at the top of his game as a director and taking into account the first film was a great (if flawed) attempt that they will have used as a learning curve, its impossible not to conclude that this film is simply going to rape the box office and leave it unable to sit down for months. You fucking KNOWS it.
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Bale's 6'2 and actually built like a super-hero. He could break Keaton in half with his penis.
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Heh. Funny.
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but Ray Winston would use Keaton to beat Bale into a coma. There can be no debating this.
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You had to try and make things personal, huh? I must want to suck Bale's cock? That's what your left with as far as argument. Since we're getting personal: I'm not the guy whose wife left him, whose kid fucking hates him, who's got a DUI and uses the word 'dickblood' in his screen-name. You've got serious personality problems, and that's why your wife is guzzling another man's jizz.
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Fuck you're right, I'm full of shit, it was gomez33. Sorry about that. Still don't think it will be forgotten in years to come though - Ledger's performance looks totally iconic, mroe so than Nicholson's, and if it is then the film will definitely be remembered in 20 years.
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Unsure whether the picture was real, but I REALLY hope it was. It looked absolutely and zombie-like. It was just a super realistic take on what would happen if your face was burned to hell with chemicals.
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And it looks way too armored and built up. I'm sure it'll be fine for the movie, but I wish they stuck with the more form-fitting, "kevlar"-based suit from BB.
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Jun 17, 2008 10:27:50 AM CDT
"not everything you read on the internet is actually true"
by lost jarv
Whaaaaaaat? You mean Elvis' Alien lovechild doesn't work in my local mcdonalds? pah.
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then it's the truth.Please visit thread 37120 if you want to witness truth....
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but that thread is important for your soul. THe CoC also approves of this message. It's been very busy handing out approvals today.
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Once this hits theatres, and you watch 2 and a half hours of this at midnight, and you creep to your Volvos at 3 am...brace yourself for disappointment. Just sayin. Most have you have this movie ranked number 1 movie ever OMFGA!!@! already. Be prepared to be brought back to earth on July 18th.
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There is the awesomeness of Tony Jaa to be discussed
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Would heal nicely if he would only apply a little of Danny Glover's Dickblood. It's applications are limitless.
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Find salvation through Tony's awesomeness at killing dudes many different ways. It's enlightening.
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I imagine in my head all fanboys drive Volvos. Or station wagons.
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The wonder elixir of our age!!
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I love Batman '89 but come one .... I'll be the first to admit that it's plot points are just as ridiculous, if not more so, than Begins and it doesn't hold up all that well now. In terms of the plot the Joker has a fucking parade in the middle of the city for Christ's sakes (with Price music playing in the background .. which goes to my point about holding up today). Like cops in any major city would let that shit happen.
I will cede the point to a certain degree about parts of it being more iconic though. The score rocked and the suite did look much better than it did in Begins (but it's lack of mobility was a real problem during the film, he couldn't turn his freaking head) and some of the production design was certainly more stylistic than what you see in Begins (but with that comes an added dimension of unrealism that Begins with it's production design avoids).
In the end Batman '89 is a less realistic and more stylistic approach to the character. I, for one, am happy that we have both takes. I was just 8 years old when Batman '89 came out and I sat in the theater and soaked up every second of it and loved it. I was 24 when Begins came out and I felt almost the exact same way about that flick. For me each interpretation came out at the perfect point in my life in terms of my age. I dug Batman '89 as an 8 year old and as a 24 year old I loved the more realistic style and production design and tone they went for in Batman Begins and was able to look past the villains plot because the plots are outrageous in most action movies. -
Easy! Easy! All I'm saying is I know some one that's seen it. This guy LOVED Batman Begins and he tells me that Dark Knight is all over the place. Too many subplots and too many characters.I hope this is not true as much as EVERYONE.
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and I am not trying to be Negative Nancy here either. The unrealistic expectations people have for this flick are astounding. Imagine waking up on Christmas day and not getting your Nintendo you asked for. You mope around for a couple of days, pissed off at Santa, then use your Christmas money your fat Uncle Carl gave you to buy it. All the while pissed off you had to spend that money on the system and not the games you wanted, and are now stuck playing Duck Hunt.
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...I REALLY hope that he isn't. But after the review my friend gave it...I am slowly bringing my expectations down. The last time I was this blindly excited about a super hero movie was (uh oh) SPIDER-MAN 3. And I'm telling my buddy this on the way to see Hulk and he's like "Shut up, dude. HULK will suck and Batman will RULE!"Two hours later we walk out of a GOOD Hulk movie and he says "What were you saying about maybe Dark Knight suckin?"
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I don't have to follow you around, because all you do with your life is post on these boards. It's kind of hard to miss, since you're everywhere, posting all the time. Yes, you do have a DUI. Yes, your wife has left you. Did you really write that crap book you're always trying to pimp? If so, then it seems like a wealth of information about you is handily available. Here's my main point, noticeable throughout your interminable threads: when someone comes with decent, organized arguments you can't refute, you just start trying to insult them. Again: your wife DID leave you, your kid DOES hate you, and this gives you so much free time to post on every single talkback on AICN.
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Yes, I've seen the the 15 second clip of the movie and watched it 20 times, and from that experience i can nitpick and give you my biased opinion on how the entire movie will be. I am a talkbacker. Please kill me...now.
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I drive a 1992 240, you might be onto something here dancing gopher
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the concept art that was leaked awhile back.. Maybe that WAS legit afterall?
Honestly, I was kind of lukewarm on the first batman reboot. It just didn't do anything for me, sort of felt bland to me. And oh god, the fight scenes were awful... Hard to tell what was going on. This new one seems a step in the right direction, probably because they finally have some interesting villains, though i have to say i liked the concept for scarecrow's costume in Begins. -
Jun 17, 2008 11:53:51 AM CDT
Batman Returns will always have a special place in my heart.
by novaman5000
I fucking love that movie. So much fun, great villains, great score. It could be over the top but it worked.
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firefox download day not going so smoothly
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..it has no sound! But I'll check again soon
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. . . wouldn't know quality if it were rammed up your loose arseholes. You're too used to in-your-face Transformers crap. Go watch your kiddie movies and wank off.
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People need to stop fucking acting like that is so much closer to "source material" (whatever the fuck that means since comic cannon changes every year). It was a good take on Batman, but overall off. They didn't need to do the whole them making each other thing, that was gay. The Batwing was silly. Not to mention why the 5 minute fight with the karate guy in the bell tower? Who's this guy to almost kick the shit out of Batman? Also, I didn't get a sense that Bruce was a disguise, which is the entire point of "the goddamn Batman" & you can't tell me you prefer Jack's Joker over TAS version, because then your opinion has no merit. Still though, the '89 Batman is still watchable and fun, and I always liked Billy Dee as Dent. I wish he'd have kept that role for Forever. Returns is great.
You can not like Begins, that's fine. But then you are just not that big of a Batman fan, as other than B&R, you should find something to enjoy about all the Batman films. Begins has it's downfalls, Katie Holmes, Gordon driving the batmobile & Katie Holmes again, but it's still a solid film. The scarecrows toxin is sick, they should have shown more of it's effects.
While TDK might not be the greatest movie ever, it will be cool. The clips in the trailer and the 6 minute preview with the Joker already make it for me. So, as long as there are more Joker scenes, it's got me already. -
I am not saying this movie is going to be rubbish. I am saying that the increasing fellatio of this movie is a little Stallone in Over the Top. I too will see this flick opening weekend, and I too will probably like it. I'm just not ready to tell everyone that Heath Ledger is going to get an Oscar and The Dark Knight is better than Citizen fucking Kane.
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Volvo's man. Count them in the parking lot opening weekend. Discounting fanboys that actually live on their own and have full time jobs, (they all have Hondas of some kind) all the 16-21 year old fanboys that still live at home drive their parents' cars and more than likely it's a Volvo. Or station wagon. Possibly a mini-van.
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Everything so far has looked top notch.Can we PLEASE not turn this into another 89 vs Begins debate?It's simple really, Begins is better. @Dannyglovers_blood the 6 min footage is awesome. Men in joker masks zip linning across Gotham roofs to the bank, busting it open, robbing it, joker henchman killing each other one by one, then the Joker himself sticking a grenade in the bank manangers mouth (it sprays gas) and leaving the bank in a school bus that merges into a long line of school buses. You can watch it here: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/batman/the-6%20minute-dark-knight-bank-heist-trailer-334675.php?autoplay=true
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If there are more Volvo's here than any other car you owe me a dollar.
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I liked it. Watching the bootlegs over a few times, the dialogue was forced at times, but the scene was cool overall. If they released just that & the trailers on a $5 DVD, I'd go buy it.
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--was spoiled out months ago along with a ton of other plot points....that were all called BS at the time..but now i have to believe them because this scene is ver batim what the spoiler said. the pic that was leaked a while back was also called bs, but every analyzed frame of the last few teases seem to match what we saw in that concept art. one of the jokes the joker plays is when the prison and city are being evacuated by boat (by what threat? unknown) the joker has bombs planted on both and says that one has to blow up the other or they both die. also everybody seems to assume that the joker is resonsible for two-face in this, but i guarantee you it's maroni or the mob. Dent is playing all sides of the fence in order to promote himself to district attorney.the mob is his villain in the movie. he may have used them to gain power and then started cracking down on them. playing dirty was needed in order to control them and prosecute them or something. Dent may not be as squeaky clean as we think. two-face. traitor. go figure. so they torture him with that in mind. the joker is not responsible for two face, i know that much.
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No Volvo. But wife owns a Honda Civic...
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I don't want to see any part of Two-Face before the film comes out. I feel like Warner is overexposing this movie. At any rate, this scene didn't do much for me. It didn't have much atmosphere or foreboding in my opinion. I'm certainly not going to judge the entire film based on it. The third trailer on youtube was pretty sweet though.
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the biggest thing i'm worried about in nolan's 'world of plausibility' is- do we get to see alot of Dent character development? i mean i hope we get enough to understand his drive or reason for snapping.also, how long in between his injury and his revenge? everything i've seen lends itself to him escaping death and going on the hunt the next day. i don't care what chemicals are involved, you are miraculously cauterized, or if you are living off adrenaline, that isn't even COMIC plausible. So i hope some time passes, but how much? those are the things that are going to make or break this movie.
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July 18th? Seems like I've been waiting forever for this. I'm just sick of WB releasing this stuff because I get bored at work and all of the sudden I'm watching it. I have no willpower.
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Oh, BOO-HOO!!!!! EEYORE!!!!!
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That still cracks me up.
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Really? That bothers you? How else would you like someone to reference their partner/significant other/girl etc?
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Happy to oblige.
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As cool as that clip was, I've been enjoying this debate a lot more! Both of you guys make interesting arguments, but I have to say Danny, that Laserhead's arguments much better. Batman Begins was a much more mature take on Batman, and I think the appeal of these movies is people want to see what it would be like if Batman were real. Burton's Batman had a lot to like, and a lot that was damned goofy. Something that always bugged the hell out of me, even when I was a kid, was Batman completely misses the Joker when he tries to shoot him in the Batwing, and yet Joker shoots him down with a stupid gun??? Forget the fact that it's totally uncharacteristic for Batman to use a gun of ANY sort, much less fire it at someone, this scene pissed me off. Don't even get me started on Joel Schumacher's attempt to pay homage to the campy Batman show of the 60s... *shiver* Anyway, my point is, if you don't like Batman Begins, whatever, but your argument that it lacks style is completely without merit. It's style is the eschewing the flashy, cartoony atmosphere of its predecessors in favor of a more realistic take. I, and many others on this talkback who are excited for The Dark Knight, find this take on a comicbook film refreshing.
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Grumpy old man from the NFL Sunday ticket commercials. "In my day you got one game and took it like a man" Genius!
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would have to be the fight scenes. I know Nolan was going for a gritty, upclose type of action, but I personally want to see what's going on. I hope that's improved in Dark Knight.
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I prefer just wife. Wife and I went to a movie or I had a grilled cheese and wife had a turkey sandwich. I just thinks it's funny. Wife, not so much.
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I'd rather hear the wife and I than me and the old lady. I prefer for people to say my wife (insert wife's name here) and I....but hey beggers can't be choosers.
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Bale can't kick ass. He's around 6' and about 200 lbs...and muscular. The guy looks like he could kick ass. Michael Keaton looks like my uncle Dean.
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Batman Begins was shit. Just a boring putrid take on the character. And that batsuit, don't even get me started on how bad it looked. At least the Batman '89 suit LOOKED fucking fantastic. And what was the Joker's plan at the end? It wasn't to fight Bats in the cathedral, it was to kill the whole population with his Joker toxin. Listen, Batman '89 stinks, but Dickblood is right in that it was iconic. Batman Begins looked like ass with those sepia tones. You had Wilkinson doing that terrible American wiseguy accent. Only Oldman was good, and even that went away by the thrid act when they had him acting like a doofus. And Batman saying "nice coat." LAME!! Batman '89 had ADULTS in the cast, BB begins had kids pretending to be an adult in Bale, Holmes, Murphy, etc. And it's contniued in this one with Ledger the child as the Joker. I am fond for the good old days, when adults were cast as adults. That's what I loved about Iron Man. It was a mediocre film, but at least they cast adults in all the main parts. If it was Nolan doing Iron Man, we'd have had Jake Gyllenhall as Tony Stark and Paul Walker as Obadiah Stane.
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No tough guy who can kick ass has a fucking lisp.
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Wasn't the point of Begins to cast younger actors because well...it's about a young Batman? Begins wasn't anything special like Batman 89' because the superhero genre was in full force where as in 89' that was one of the few films around. After watching both NOW though, Begins is a better movie (in my opinion).
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Bale was the bomb in Equilibrium yo!
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...with this BATMAN '89 bullshit. That movie sucks just as much now as it did in '89. Maybe even more."I just want to know, are we going to try and love each other?"PUH-LEEEEZZZEEE!Anyone who praises Burton's faux goth-camp or Schumacher's neon-fetishism is apologizing for some serious shite that ran the character and franchise into the ground.And I think the "too much brown" (aka sepia tones) complaint is the most strangest, most juvenile nitpick I've seen in a long time. (It rivals Ringbearer9's bitch-fit over the color CGI fire.) Go watch BLADERUNNER again and try telling me how much you hate sepia tones.
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It has been said that Joker meets the Scarecrow in a parking garage for a buisiness transaction. Most likely the purchase of the Scarecrows panic gas for Jokers Laughing Gas. Batman is apparently spying on them during this. Then theres a shoot out.
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give a fuck about what movies make at the box office? Are you all investors with money tied up in this films? Probably not, you're just a bunch of whiney douches who wish you were in the film business. Oh and too much sepia tone sucks when the entire movie is filmed that way..gotta throw some blues in there to mix it up
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I have nothing against sepia tones in and of themselves. But they are ridiculous in a Batman film. Brown is not in Batman's color palette. Black, blue, silver, black, gray --- those are Batman's colors. It was just a weird choice to make cinematographically. I suspect it was only done to further differentiate it from Batman '89, which got the color palette correct. And exactly what is juvenile about paying attention to the color palettes a film uses? It is easily one the most important aspects of any film.
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Did you know that Nolan had his DP and crew sit down to a private screening of BLADERUNNER in order to get them thinking about what he wanted for the overall cinematography of BATMAN BEGINS?Personally, I found the color palette to be fine. In fact, I hardly noticed the concentration on certain "tones" until it got brought up in Talkback ages ago. So yes, I do find it juvenile. It's nitpicky simply for the sake of. If you don't like it, that's fine. I'm certainly not going to tell you what you can/cannot enjoy...Does Gotham not have a Starbucks?! I ask this because I honestly don't know; I don't read comics anymore.
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Two Face actually turned out to be the main villain of the film? And the Joker and Batman have to TEAM UP to beat him? And then, after doing so, the Joker has a touch of Brokeback Mountain and very slowly, very gently, fucks him?
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I was 15. After years of thinking that super heroes were dumb I was once again a huge fan of Batman thanks to Frank Miller's Dark Knight.I had hoped for a good Batman movie since I was a little kid and I'd read an interview in Starlog with Tom Mankiewicz in which he talked about a Batman film that almost saw the light of day following Donner's Superman. Mankiewicz's Batman was going to remove the camp of the old TV series and take Batman back to his gritty, noir/pulp vigilante roots. Wow, just like Miller's Dark Knight. Back to 1989, Burton and WB announced that their Batman was "directly inspired by Frank Miller's Dark Knight vision of the Batman".
Needless to say, I was pretty excited to see Burton's Batman that summer 19 years ago. I wasn't sure about the casting of Michael Keaton, but I was willing to gamble my 5 bucks.Words cannot describe how fucking disappointed I was. Burton's Batman owes way more to the TV series than it does to anything Frank Miller did. When we refer to material as "dark" we're usually referring to the material, to the content, the characters, the plot, and their presentation. "Dark" does not refer to a lack of lighting or set design.Even as a 15 year-old kid, I knew that Burton's Batman was a load of shit. Even as I kid, I knew that Burton's Batman was not really Batman.The old TV series is great for its own reasons, but for folks who care about Batman as he was originally conceived by Bob Kane and as he was refined and perfected by Frank Miller, Batman Begins was the first proper and actual Batman movie and The Dark Knight will be the second proper Batman movie. We're looking forward to it. -
Quote: "Brown is not in Batman's color palette."Really? Says who?Quote: "Black, blue, silver, black, gray --- those are Batman's colors."Are you talking about his suit in the comics? Because a film shot predominantly in those colors would probably look more like UNDERWORLD that BATMAN...
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i was kinda hoping this was referring to arthur dent...
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Geez.
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That's right!! AND JUST IN TIME TO SAY FUCK BATMAN BEGINS AND THIS STUPID SHIT HOLE THEY CALL DARK KNIGHT!!! FUCK THESE MOVIES UP THEIR STUPID ASSHOLES!!! You fuck tards would applaud if Bale spread his ass cheeks and shit on the Bat suit. Goddamn people in this country will like anything. ahhahaha
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First off, calm the fuck down.Second, I disagree...with both of your paragraphs. So there.
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With you 100%. Burtons Batman
S U C K E D A S S
and was a flippant take on the characters, directed by a guy who admitted that he hadn't read the comics, had no interest in comics and didn't respect the medium as an art form.
People who praise Burtons work on Batman, esp. over Nolans, need to pull the dicks out of their eyes.
Also, _DICKBLOOD, are you like the Official AICN Troll now? So fucking sick of you. Go douche your sandy puss, woman. -
The Blade Runner score is classic Vangelis! Other than that, great points all around. One thing I liked about Batman '89 is that he was actually a detective and a brilliant chemist, as he is supposed to be. You see BATMAN finds the cure for the Smilex shit, not some fucking lackey working down at Wayne Enterprises or whatever. BB hardly ever shows Bats being a detective, much less a brilliant guy. He actually comes across as a dope, and no, it's not cause he is young. Batman was brilliant from before he even donned the suit.
Mr. Nice Gaius - You're right, I would not want it to look like Underworld. But it is hard to argue that brown is a major component of Batman's color palette as a character. Cities are not brown, they are shiny and saturated with deep shadows. Not orange and brown lights everywhere. And whatever that shantytown was at the end of BB, it was one of the worst most cheap looking sets I have ever seen. Anton Furst is sorely missed. May he rest in peace. -
1.) Jack Palance. Just awesome as the grisly old "Jack, you are my ah, numba one, ah guy." mob boss. Brilliant.
2.) Bob the goon. He was definately a major necessity. I love his character arc and tragic murder at the end.
3.)Robert Wuhl as Knox. What a fantanstic and funny guy. Loved him.
4.) Joker. Prince. Nuff said.
5.) Alfred lets Vicki Vale into the batcave...awesome reveal!
6.) Joker's super cool ninja henchman is almost as cool as his super cool long gun and his super cool plan to fist-fight Batman.
7.) A black Harvey Dent. Fo sho.
8.) Joker killing batmans parents. Way better than that comic book Joe Chill guy. This makes things much more personal!
Seriously, with it's expanded landscapes and countries, deeper exploring of Batman's mythology, tense plotting, and crappy acting from Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, and Christian Bale... how can ANYONE like Batman Begins?
And all the sepia tones....sheesh! -
Quote: "You really think Batman Begins deserves to be on the same shelf as Blade Runner?"Did I say that? I don't think I even insinuated it.But if you're one of those who thinks that BATMAN '89 is anything more than a wet fart that wafts to the tunes of Prince, you might be as tasteless as Underoos Hero.
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You BB lovers really think that you are true intellects, don't you? I bet to this day you guys sit around and try to intelligently discuss this film. Trying to get "deep", "metaphysical" and "philosophical". God how depressing. I don't care how you cut it, the Goddamned movie sucked and this DARK KNIGHT will too. All of you take yourselves and your comic books waaaaaaaay to seriously.
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Hey dude! Were you in the Russert TB when Brandead went off? What did he say that they removed his posts?
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Hey back at ya!Ah, so BraneRobot (aka AnimalStructure, Thunderballs, etc.) got banned then, eh? I definitely saw what it was that he posted in the Russert Obit TB = he called out for the death of Keith Olbermann. Completely inappropriate and wrong in every way.
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I'm going to bet that you're wearing Batman undewear right now.
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I was wondering what that dillweed did to finally get himself banned. But you know he will be back - and quite easy to spot!
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Brilliant! Heh.
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Say what you want about the TV show, but the Batmobile from that show was and still remains the greatest Batmobile of all time!
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The post from Blest is so sacastically confusing, that people on both sides of the Batman 89/Begins debate will think he is favoring their argument! And that is what sarcasm should do! Funny!
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I can accept the dislike of Begins, I thought it was off in a few ways and I never quite connected with it, but '89 just makes me livid with furious anger.
Nicholson IS NOT The Joker. Billy Dee IS NOT Dent. Robert Wuhl is like a catheter, i.e. pain in my cock. The Purple One does not, in any way, speak to me of Gotham City. -
Oh yes. And when he does come back, we'll be there to bitchslap him just like old times. Get your suspects ready!And for the record, I love the ol' Adam West TV-show Batman. I would take that over the Burton/Schumacher debacle any Bat-day of the week.
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He backs up his arguments and his hatred of BB is his true opinion. He's not hating it just to piss you off. He just truly hates it and doesn't understand why anyone likes it. And while I don't agree with him, I'd say he makes valid points. The sephia tones are strange. But compared toBurton's winter wonderland in Batman Returns, and Shumacher's neon city, I'll take the sephia tones. However, the best looking Gotham was in the original 89 Batman. I like BB because I felt it nailed the main character, and I felt it was the first Batman film that was actually about Batman. It had some flaws and it's not the best movie evAR. Burton's had more style, and had one of the best villains of all time. And I'm betting most of you loved Burton's movie when it came out. This film simply was not hated when it came out.
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Jun 17, 2008 4:37:17 PM CDT
Alright, my "troll" comment was uncalled for
by fathermcgruderkicksassforthelord
apologies all around but damn it all i hate burtons batman.
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I defend DannyGlover because I understand what it's like to hate a movie everyone else loves. I hate Spider-Man 1. I hated it the first time I saw it, and I was shocked to discover that everyone else loved it.
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I get that. I also stood in the minority on the 1st Spiderman.
For the record, I liked Spiderman 2 a lot more, as well as Batman Returns (despite that it was Burtons return). Maybe I'm a sucker for sequels. It is in this sense that I am hoping for The Dark Knight to trump Batman Begins. -
It's so barely there that I wonder why it's even been let out.
All it does is somewhat spoil the question of 'will they/won't they?' with regard to showing Dent's outcome in this film. I admit trepidation. -
a good superhero movie relies on how good its villains are. BB had weak sauce, and all the scenes after the origin, hte negative should be taken and burned, and all copies destroyed. just boring bland shit, katie holmes, awful scarecrow. TDK however has joker and two face so already it's looking better.
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Jun 17, 2008 4:53:03 PM CDT
this would make a better (though not satisfying) ending cliffhan
by zom-bot.com
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Ok, that's funny.
But no, I mean a bad one. One like my uncle once described as napalm in his pee-hole. -
this would make a better cliffhanger ending for the next one than being a 3/4th point in the film as it seems to be...maybe this is one of the corrupt cops that somehow ratted out Dent or got him pinched by the mob, and immediately after this, you see harvey's face , hear a gunshot, and the screen goes black for pt 3. harvey having taken a life and on his way to vigilantism.
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Good to know you dig the Vangelis! Tangerine Dream is the shit. Have you ever heard their score for Mann's Thief? It's fucking brilliant shit.
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oh well. we can't have everything i guess. bet that alcohol stung the mouth a bit. maybe that's his sterilization regimen. constant drinking to stave off infection..heh
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Indy 4 only further proved your honesty of opinion, haha. Now if you come out of Dark Knight and like it, THEN I'll be grinning! Then again, hopefully that won't mean that I end up hating it. Fuck.
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Well, for starters, I don't believe in calling out for the death of anyone; especially on a movie messageboard/forum. And I know AICN Talkbacks aren't much for respect but come on. It's a guy's Obit Talkback.Now, did you happen to see the manner in which BraneRobot made his ridiculous plee?
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OK. I guess...
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...a brand new Talkbacker who did not post in the Russert Obit-TB wants to start talking smack about it.Gee. I wonder who it could be.
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Has the best, most quotable script of any superhero movie to date. Batman Returns is second best. Batman Begins is third. They're all excellent. You will all disagree with me. I don't care :)
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it's the suit he was burnt in.do we know yet? is it acid, chemical or flammable? his suit is fucked up. in all the pictures and the toy. it's discolored and tattered, making me think acid or chemical burn, not fire.
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Half the suit is burned, thus giving it a two tone look.
Also, I hate you. -
because you're too busy talkbacking? or because it's too fast?
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Jun 17, 2008 5:28:57 PM CDT
I need your help, my little bastards. Read on.
by youareallmybastardchildren
Question: Can anyone tell me what phoenixmagi2's most anticipated summer movie is?I just can't figure it out.
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Batshit 89 and BB/TDK are two different types of comic book films. Yes they feature the same characters, but each film approaches them so differently, that it's really a strtch to try and compare them. One is not better than the other.
Now go take your AZT cocktail -
Looks like he's burnt and has exposed pinkish-redish flesh with some black charred parts. And his suit is definitely burned on one side. Not sure until we see more.
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If the nipples ain't showin', I ain't goin'!
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Hm. Two Batman movies, but we shouldn't compare them because each film takes a different approach.Really?So, you couldn't ask yourself which approach is more effective?You couldn't look at the differences between each depiction?I reckon, then, that you certainly wouldn't want to ask yourself which approach you like better, right? Because how could you prefer one over the other? Given the fact that they're both... uhh... different.
To compare them would be... a... a... what'd you say? A stretch?Wow.Gotcha.I'd like to hang out with you on election day."Obama and McCain will both approach the presidency differently. Therefore it is a waste of time to try and compare them. Neither is better than the other. We may as well not vote because they are both different. Let's go home now."And I'll be all like, "Whatever you say, billis3811." -
He does it by throwing a handful of sleeping pills at him
DA-DA CHA!
THANK U THANK U I WILL BE HERE ALL NITE FOLKS -
I have no doubt you'll be here all "nite". What else would you be doing? Going on a date?
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Thank goodness, there's someone else out there who likes Batman 89 more than BB! I thought I was alone in that respect. I loved the mystery surrounding the character of Batman and Bruce Wayne in the flick (which is washed away completely in BB), the score is great, the script is insanely quotable, and the flick is just generally iconic. I think BB is a fine flick, but none of it felt iconic to me (and I really like Bale AND Nolan). That said, I'm hoping TDK blows me away. P.S. DGDB, I saw Big Trouble in Little China, and I gotta say my favorite Jack Burtonism was "When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: 'Have ya paid your dues, Jack?' 'Yessir, the check is in the mail.'" Bad ass and hilarious simultaneously.
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guess i should go up to wal-mart and buy the new two-face, riddler, batman and joker pez's and go hike the price up on ebay.
later fellas -
What 'synth score' are you referring to in Begins? I don't recall any synth in Begins.
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but it's pointless. If I had to choose to watch one now, I'd pick Begins, but somedays it might be '89. If you're a Batman fan, you have to like both, but know that the animated series owns.
'89 is SO fucking silly it hurts the brain. But since it's classic, you can't really say it SUCKS. And Jack does have a decent take on the Joker. But the re-writing of both of their origins is too stupid for me to even think about. I thought Returns was a bit more solid, although still very fucking silly, but they fucked the Penguin up. He needs to be a squat, high class, arms dealer with connections. Not some creepy, half-bird, circus freak. Just weird. Selina Kyle sucked, but Catwoman was great.
Begins should have been more serious in the last act. There got to be a little too many one liners for my taste and Gordon driving the batmobile was dumb. And, of course, Katie Holmes should be ripped out of the movie. I didn't hate the Scarecrow, but I wish he'd have been played a little less coo-koo until Batman shot him with his own toxin, driving him pyschotic. I didn't care for Maroni at all, they needed someone with more clout to pull off that role. Sepia tones? I guess. I didn't go to fucking film school, I know what sepia looks like, but I guess I don't know what tone Gotham should be. I couldn't give less of a shit. -
Is it okay to really enjoy both for what they are? Or do I have to pick a side?
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Batman apparently was ok with killing thugs (a no-no for him in the comics, but then again Burton was inspired by Dark Knight Returns), and Jack Nicholson was playing a slightly stylized version of himself. No difference between his Joker and the psychologist from that comedy he did with Adam Sandler. Batman Begins was on par with Batman '89, just with different strengths and weaknesses.
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But will they have missiles strapped to their backs?? Tim Burton would frown upon such blatant thievery of his genius ideas.
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Who was your friend who said TDK wasn't that great? Did he give any plot details that we wouldn't know about yet, etc.?
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The first glimpses we see of Batman were spot on. It was essentially a horror film shown from the point of view of the villians. The design of Gotham was fascinating in establishing shots (especially the lower burrows), but the set design was forgettable. Gotham wasn't a character the same way it was in Burton's vision. Granted "Returns" was over-stylized a bit and, let's not even get into the the insanely over produced look of "Forever" and "Robin." Every frame had twenty things going on, none of them that interesting. Anyway, "Begins" lost it's way once Liam Neeson's character showed up again. The Scarecorw was relegated to not even a secondary villian, but an afterthought. To criticize Katie Holmes would be overkill by this point, but Morgan Freeman and Gary Oldman were wasted. In "Dark Knight" they need to find the "dark" the inner conflict within Wayne, and batman needs to end the villians with a brutality we see in Frank Miller's vision. The trailers look promising, i'm so there opening night.
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But much like Hackman's Luthor, he was more comical. For what's it was worth, it worked at the time. It really does look like Heath Ledger is taking his Joker the route that Spacey did in Superman Returns. Comical at times but much darker and more sinister. And judging from this little clip, Aaron's Two Face is going to make Tommy Lee Jones's Dent look like some gay ass uber neon Power Rangers villian....not that he doesnt already haha
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- granted, its just my opinion but I do prefer them to nolans. Theres something far more unique about them- maybe its the current comic book movie climate? Has nolan merely stood on the shoulder of a giant? I dont know- im not a big batman fan other than digging the costume and the basic character outline. each to their own- the whole 89 vs BB is getting old.
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Jun 17, 2008 8:02:38 PM CDT
Batman 1989 vs Batman Begins - Breakdown Dr. Jack Style
by toadkillerdog
For those of you unfamiliar with Dr. Jack - it is a basketball reference.
Portrayal of Bruce Wayne: Keaton, in just a few scenes nails the psychosis of Bruce/Bats, whereas it took Bale half the picture to accomplish. Advantage: Keaton. Portrayal Batman: No comp here. A tiny Keaton, no matter how much padding cannot compare to Bale. Advantage: Bale
Major Villains: Joker, Ra's and Scarecrow. Lets just dispense with scarecrow because he was a waste of film Jack's joker was over the top, but entertaining. He commanded the screen (for good or ill). He had a plan, coherent or not, and he had style. I also think that Jack made the Joker an extension of himself, that was to good effect. Ra's, was boring, lifeless, and the best thing about Ra's in the comics, was his smokin hot daughter! No daughter, Liam was boring. Advantage: Jack. Supporting Villains: '89 far more colorful and enetertaining. Advantage: '89 Supporting actors: '89 Alfred and Vicki, beat Caine and Katie. Freeman and Oldman beat Wuhl, Billy Dee et al. Freeman the superior of supporting actors. Advantage: Begins. Atmosphere: '89 faux gothic ghetto. Begins - faux urban garbage. But if '89 had stuck to a straight Miller interpretation it would have worked, instead it was far too unrealistic and intrusive. Advantage: Begins Batmobile: '89, works for the atmosphere created. Begins - works for atmosphere created. Advantage: PushMusic: -'89 hands down. Plot: What there is of a plot is broken down into origin and nutcase villain attack. Origin: Begins devotes half the freakin movie to it, and still does not nail it. The Ra's re-write just feels wrong, but it does do a credible job of explaining Wayne's physical prowess. '89, not so much. Advantage origin: Begins. Villain plot. Both pretty stupid, but can not indict stupid comic book plot in one movie unless you do so in all comic book movies. Still, Ra's speechifying and not finishing the job when Wayne is trapped, was even dumber than Joker wanting to fight Batman. At least Joker had a plan to soften up Batman before they fought. Still just they both were dumb. Advantage: Push
Director: Burton, style over substance. Nolan, substance with plot holes, little style. Still, Nolan made a grittier, and more realistic movie plot holes and all. Advantage: Nolan. Iconic moments and impact: '89 had a huge anticipatory build-up, and driven by the indelible Elfman score and it's 'newness' '89 had the greater impact. Entertainment value: Both delivered what was expected, but on the strength of a more realistic approach and better overall vision, Begins gets the nod. Best Movie: Lets tally it up! Including the Pushes, it is...5 to 5! Another Push! So, like everything, it comes down to a subjective opinion. If I had to choose, I would say Begins - by a nose.
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In which few '89 scenes does Keaton nail the psychosis of Batman?
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The best scene is when Jack invades Vicki's apartment, and Keaton/Wayne does not back down at all, nor go into the wayne persona. He confronts Jack and henchmen without weapons, in what can only be called an almost suicidal moment. Wayne is not 'normal' and that one scene showed Keatons grasp of the fine line that Wayne walks between an almost suicidal need for action/adventure/vengeance/adrenaline rush, and normalcy.
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I hope you know the meaning of the word: Irony. If not, then I am quite sure you know the meaning of the word stupidity, because it stares you in the face everytime you look in the mirror, and everytime you wipe your shit stained hand across a keyboard. Have a nice evening!
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It matters not what your stated motivation was - after the fact. I believe in reciprocal response. So, if you make a smart-aleck comment, and if I am in the mood to return fire, I will do so in kind. You will notice I did not Nuke you, so the kidding is accepted. Have a good evening.
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So, the 'just kidding' comment was merely a smoke screen. Well, I must say that extremely creative 'Go fuck yourself' was quite inspired. Truly, I am impressed with your range of expression. I wonder what amazing retort you will next come up with. I am on the edge of my seat - toilet that is. And that turd in bowl looks and smells just like you!
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Jun 17, 2008 9:01:16 PM CDT
why Batman 89 will be more remembered than Begins 25 years from
by prossor
aside from the burton one being an event on par with how Superman:The Movie or Star Wars were events in their days, Batman 89 had more soul in it, whatever you think its quality or not, it had a personal stamp on it by Burton. With Begins Nolan didnt really infuse himself into it, he was careful to appease many people, never taking filmmaking chances. Everything was too safe and slick and smooth. With Burton he just said "fuck it" and did it his own way. This rings more true when considering art. And this type of stuff always ages the best!
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Burton recently said he would have made his Batman much more like Nolan's but that he was pinned in by studio pressure and interference, and was forced to make the movie that he did. According to Burton, he wasn't allowed to do it "his own way".That's pretty freaky, Bowie.
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Ever notice how the church was empty? Like the city had lost religion...I met screenwriter, Sam Hamm, and he loved that Tim Burton included all those visual cues to the degeneration of Gotham. The infusion of the now overused German Expressionist style, was still fresh for Batman and Beetlejuice. Too bad Tim Burton fell off so hard.
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I enjoyed your breakdown of the 2 films. I myself find both films very entertaining. However, i do have to say that I (and again, personally) would push the music category. Elfman's Batty theme is classic, nothing compares to the percussive, triplet ridden phrases of a Danny Elfman score. but Hans Zimmer is a maestro in his own domain. Giving us very deep, strong, complementative scores from Gladiator, The Last Samurai, even from The Lion King. And Batman Begins offers the same powerful passages and themes that Zimmer is known and praised for. for me, both films are great. Batman 89 was fun and entertaining, becoming a classic in my book. Begins was also entertaining, but offers that different, Serious approach that the Batman franchise needed. and the dark knight cannot premiere any later.
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Thanks. I have the Celtics game on, so I thought I would use a basketball breakdown. You are quite correct about Zimmer being a maestro, and no disrespect to him at all. He has delivered iconic music, and I would actually classify him as the better composer. The reason why I gave Elfman the nod though, was that in this case, his score just resonates and is immediately identifiable. It is truly iconic. This is all subjective though.
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SOOOOO many times on this site it's not funny. So now I just continue to knuckle drag and BOMB these shitty Nolan turds. I can bet that a good many of you people on these talkbacks are in your 20's. Therefore you just barely missed what good film making was about. All of that shit was farted out in the 90's and all of the remakes now. Damn.... I almost can't blame most of you for being so tarded that you actually think that BB worked as a movie....much less a Batman movie. I hope one day, perhaps just one of you will watch this shitty BB movie and say to yourself.."Goddamn, Underoos Hero was fucking right man. This shit really does suck." Never have I felt so passionate about telling the world of something so suck.
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just how stupid Batman 89 was. B89's Joker was absolutely ridiculous. It was Jack acting like Jack with make up on. AWFUL movie. Batman Begins was awesome and The Dark Knight will be even better. Jack Nicholson is a fucking idiot. A lucky idiot, but nevertheless an idiot who hasn't acted since The Shining. Ledgers Joker will go down in history as one of the best comic book villians on screen EVER! And anyone who thinks B89 is better than Begins is a moron. True story.
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Your point is hardly validated. Especially when you attack the maturity level of those of us in our 20s by calling us "tards." Makes you wonder who the real immature on is.
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how fucking dare you say Bland Begins is.
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It's like being asked, do you like vanilla or strawberry?
I like the original Batman movie, for among other things, the score, the marvellous style, the mix of eighties action and high production value comic book design.
I really didn't think much of Batman Forever, or Batman and Robin. I might be alone in that, but I thought they lacked the grit necessary for a comic book come to life to be taken seriously, the realism to let adults really sink their teeth into it, and let's face it, I did not need to see the ASS of each and every Bat costume. It's not exactly something I stayed up nights wondering about.
I just loved Ducard's reaction at seeing his former pupil show up in costume. "I see you took my advice about theatricality a little too seriously" Bit by bit, Nolan starts from a plausible place and takes relatively plausible steps from what could really be reality: a spoiled rich boy imprisoned in a far eastern prison, approached by a mysterious stranger.
The style in Batman Begins is subtle, but it's there: reality heightened enough to allow a superhero like Batman to exist, but grounded enough to give the notion of the superhero some weight, like Unbreakable, taken to the next level.
The advantage of this approach is that there are so many meaty themes relating to real attitudes about heroes and superheroes in our culture that can shine through this.
I really think that taking the approach of trying to rank movies is silly. Movies aren't like race cars. Unless you talk about box office, Movies gain their significance by means that are not linear, not simple, and not objective
We can say one movie is better than the others, but we will always speak for ourselves, in that case. -
As for 89 vs. Begins, 89 disappoints me in its turning the Joker into Jack Nicholson. To be honest I haven't seen them either in quite a while, but I find that the things I remember from '89 are the things that make me annoyed, while the things I remember from Begins make me happy, and excited for TDK. Returns still kicks all ass though, especially that the movie isn't completely ruined by the Penguin (who I despise). Oh, and it has a Love Interest who is actually interesting, which is definitely a plus.
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Watch the 6 min bank robbery opening. It pretty much ends the debate, at least as far as I'm concerned. Nolan's world pwns Burtons.
Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cp-UunC2Gg -
So what he was saying was he couldn't transmit his data back to Earth?
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please?
Back on topic, Dent seems to say "half" much too fast (but I'm still hanging out for this). -
sorry but a Volvo wagon lol.. I missed out on the whole discussion but perhaps better late than never? hmm.. probably not.
I'm excited for this movie, but I haven't been to the theater since Cloverfield.. that shitfest ruined the theater experience for me.. I've been watching crappy cams, waiting for BluRay or Dvd..
B:TDK will get me back in the theater again, but if it blows I don't think I will ever go back.
Dickblood, I've laughed plenty at your posts myself.. You did break Laserbrains balls a bit, but nothing to warrant the diatribe he delivered.. looked to me like he'd been harboring some dislike for you for sometime.. Watch out for that dude, he might be loony.. lol -
I could swear that this scene was filmed in the Twin Anchors restaurant in Chicago. Awesome food there! Any verification please?
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Stop being so crabby. I'm here all nite everyone.
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I said it at the time and I say it now. At least Nolan did a decent job with BB...didn't hit it out of the park, but at least got on base.
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BraneRobot=AnimalStructure=ThunderBalls. The giveaway? The second capitalisation in the name. No-one else does that.
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I need to kill you. batman begins destroys your life.
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apart from the great filmmaking and story, it was enjoyable(the most important bit) and made you think about human nature. if you don't agree you can suck my balls.
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Dude, you meant Laserhead, not Laserbrain. Laserhead obviously had to go for the weaker choice because the accurate Star Wars quote one was taken. Same with Laserpants.
And Laserhead, the reason they went for the yellow symbol in the Burton film was that the one bit of bright colour made them target the armoured part, and not his face. Reasonably logical for a superhero movie!
I think everyone misses the point of the Burton Batman's Gotham. It's GOTHIC, and nightmarish. The thing was a melodromatic opera, for Christ's sake. You can actually sort of accept a bizarre bat/man (Die Fleidermaus?) in that context. And at least I can appreciate both that movie AND the Nolan one. They're just very different approaches to the character (and BOTH have their flaws). You don't HAVE to hate one because you like the other. That's infantile and simplistic. And boring. -
Seriously, why even bother trying to explain to anyone who prefers '89 to the great Batman Begins? BB is so superior that even having to argue the point is embarrassing. If people like that sort of thing, then they aren't really considering what is truly great about BB. Some people prefer character development, and subtlety. Others prefer flashy costumes and thumping musical scores. In the context of a Batman film, I'd prefer the former rather than the latter.
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All it takes is a few fuckers to try and spoil all the fun but constantly posting negative bullshit. Happens for EVERY single film no matter how good. People who hate these movies, and the effort that goes into making them, don't deserve movies. It's this selfish, disgusting attitude when another person's vision is slightly off from your own.
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Not without nipple antennae on his BatSuit.
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Just curious, why does one have to be better than the other?
Why not start an argument that Batman 66 is better than Batman 43? -
I still can't believe it!
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...Batman: Mask of the Phantom. The feature from the animated series. It combines an origin story with a new villian, plus the Joker, a great score, some great action scenes and a very sombre tone. Check it our if you ain't seen it!!!!
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One doesn't HAVE to be better than the other. You might not have an opinion about it. Or, you might actually prefer one to the other, in which case, one becomes BETTER than the other. Does that make sense to you?
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Everyone seems to forget how un-stunning BB's take was. DK having a huge box office? no, not going to happen.
But hey, last time, people decided they could still blame Joel Schumacker for BB's box office. Will they still be able to this time?
And yeah, I don't care for Nolan Batman and am still a Burton Fanboy. but not so much B89. Batman Returns is where it's at. -
What so's subtle about Batman Begins? "You have to become an idea!" "Justice isn't about revenge!" "I have to become a symbol!" Batman Begins wore all it's themes and developments on it's sleeves. It had characters go into big monologues about their view of Justice. It had lines like, "It's what I do that defines me!" Only an adolescent would find any of this "subtle." It's subtle like a Gorilla.
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IS the best Batman movie. That is a correct statement.
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Painful exposition, cringe-inducing one-liners and more. Greenstyle is right, everybody wears their development on their sleeves in that film. Mask of the Phantasm is the best Batman flick, but the best live action one is still Batman 89. And to those complaining about how dated Batman 89 is, how about the bum saying 'nice ride' to the Tumbler? How about Gordon taking a line out of Will Smith's 10+ year old playbook and saying 'I gotta get me one of those'? I cringed in the THEATRE during those moments, it was such a poor attempt at being hip in an otherwise joyless film.
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Is, like all/most of Burton's work, a fairy tale. And Burton definitely re-shaped the character to his liking, and as a stand-alone film, making the Joker the murderer of Batman's parents makes sense. It establishes the cycle of violence in a much tighter fashion, in a sort of tragic way. BB is just an average action flick with a guy calling himself Batman.
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Check out my post from 8:02 PM - I broke it down, Dr. Jack style! You might not agree, but that is the beauty of having an opinion.
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Dudes and sista's. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (uncut). Now THAT is a good Bats movie.
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The Batmobile from the TV series is the only one I have true love for. I think both movies cars fit the themes they were trying to express, which is why i called it a push.
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I noticed that when the trailer premiered online a couple months ago. Right before he hits the car you can see him!
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Why would he choose the image of a bat? The answer isn't all that vague. It seems like Nolan spent A LOT of time explaining that in BB: bats scare Bruce Wayne and he dresses up like one so that he enemies can share his dread. He personifies his own fears and in doing so, conquers them. Sure, it's a whole nunch of psychological mumbo jumbo (which was an issue Rickey had with BB) but at least they do explain the reason he chose the Batman persona.
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Jun 18, 2008 12:59:20 PM CDT
hopefully they'll dial back the psychological stuff in TDK
by rickey henderson
Now that they've established Wayne as a hero, hopefully they'll play it up and actually give us a hero movie that's not all brooding psychodrama. And maybe give us a music score that's actually heroic... Yes, "Molossus" is good, but it just can't compare to Elfman's Batman theme. The Zimmer/Howard score ain't a worthwhile Batman theme, it's just a lot of dum dum dum dum dum dum dum background noise with the occasional horns coming to a crescendo. Rather meh if you ask Rickey.
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Well then it's a good thing the Batsuit went through some....Ch-changes.
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Answer: neither. The Dark Knight will own them both.
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So, it's going to make as much as The Incredible Hulk? Greenstyle, you are a fucking moron.
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Latter day Zimmer is terrible, and I agree The Rock and Broken Arrow had terrible scores, but his themes for Black Rain are great. I love that fucking score. Same with Drop Zone, K2, Backdraft, Point of no Return and True Romance. Around 1995/1996, he started to really slide and he now is a terrible composer. And I agree BB had a terrible score, in addition to terrible writing, terrible acting, and terrible direction. But I was a big fan of Zimmer's early work, especially Black Rain.
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Definitely check out the Black Rain score. Just be warned, a lot of it has been co-opted for movie trailers over the years, thus causing it to lose some of its luster. Saw Gladiator once, thought it kinda stunk, don't remember the score at all. All in all though, I think film scores have gotten terrible over the last decade. There are no good iconic themes in any of these superhero movies, or any good scores worth buying anymore. Assassination of Jesse James had a great score, but even that was kind of same-y. It's quickly becoming a lost art.
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Williams is indeed great, but even he has cooled off of late, perhaps due to age or boredom. That Crystal Skull score was an abomination. But any man who can come up woth the theme for Star Wars, Indy and Superman is a god in my book.
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i think he played the best all-around Batman. whereas the others have something off about them, keaton's shrimpyness, bale's english and lisp and shitty batman voice. And he gets a thumbs up for just wearing fabric, and no rubber suit stupidity, and pulling it off too. not to mention ont popping a boner when catwoman and batgirl were around, that takes discipline, the discipline needed for someone playing sucha tough dual role.
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in a future nolan batman movie.... then they have dropped the ball. no makeup needed to make this guy fit the part.
http://www.im db.com/name/nm0001758/ -
As the catwoman = pure sex goddess.
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that Hans Zimmer sucks. And John Williams is great but he tends to over score, I mean, not every scene needs music in the background.
Back to B'89 vs. BB... I love bot movies, but both are flawed as shit.
B'89 had a great villain, but a lacking hero. The characters where not well developed, and the story was kinda forgettable. The cinematography and production design where top-notch, they really made the movie feel unique. The prince music is shit and completely out of place, but the score is awesome.
BB got the Batman character right, and really gave him a good back-story. No good villain though. Cinematography was kinda ugly with all the "brown" coloring, but it served the purpose well. They created a city that felt real and gritty. Score was ok, the Hans Zimmer parts where forgettable as usual, but the JNH stuff was great. Katie Holms was crap and felt out of place. The origin part of the story was great, but when the microwaving shit starts it gets a bit silly. You can't base a movie so much in reality for the 1st hour, and then go completely campy for the 2nd hour with silly plot points and goofy one-liners. But, like I said before on these bords, BB did one thing extremely well, and that is to set up a great foundation for a good sequel.
Both films are good and bad in their own ways, I could continue yapping about the flaws and qualities of both movies for hours, but these where the things that stood out the most for me.
rant over -
funniest thing i read this week. n1 dickblood
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1. Keaton-The guy was 5ft nothing and looked ridiculous when standing next to anyone else in the film.
2. The Joker- turned into a silly old mob boss with none of the creepy serial killer undertones that he has in the comics/animated series.
3. The pacing of the film- It's just not a well made film. Watch any scene in the film after the Joker makes his appearance out of order order and it still makes just as much sense as when you watch the scenes in order. There's no flow to the film and the scenes feel like little Burton skits rather than a fully realized film.
4. Characters- No character is developed. Characters like Gordon, Dent, Knox, etc. are completely abandoned after the Joker is born. Just not good storytelling.
5. Music- Yes EVERYONE defends the score, but it feels too much like a march song. Not gritty enough for Batman IMO. Much prefer the animated series theme or BB's more heroic caped crusader feeling theme.
6. Alfred letting Vickie Vale into the Batcave- should of gotten fired after that.
7. Joker Killing Batman's parents- This is just a needless change to the mythology. All it adds is a corny and lazy excuse to make Batman hate the Joker on an even level. Just lazy filmmaking similar to what they did in Spider-man 3.
8. Batman kills- WTF?! Blowing up people? Really? One of the things that makes Batman the hero that he is is that he has a fine line that he will never cross. If he kills someone, then what separates him from the very people that he fights against? Burton didn't get this. And yes he does "let" Ra's Al Ghul die (which technically isn't murder...plus the guy's immortal), but that's no where near as bad as the mass murdering he does in the 89 flick...and don't get me started on Batman Returns (ex. lighting a guy on fire, strapping a bomb on a guy...etc) Plus, does Batman even do anything heroic in the film? He saves the girl he's fucking a few times, but he basically lets half of Gotham die at the end cause he takes to damn long to get to the balloons. And why doesn't he destroy the Smylex factory until the end of the film when he knows about it during almost the entire film!!!!!! Just bad filmmaking.
9. Characterizations- Gordon doesn't act like Gordon, Bruce doesn't act like Bruce, Joker doesn't act like Joker, Dent doesn't act like Dent. ETC. The characters in the film act nothing like their comic book counterparts. No Batman/ Gordon partnership/friendship (which is one of the biggest flaws). In Begins, Batman's personality is identical to the comics along with Gordon's (Dent's seems to be similar based on what I've read on TDK). Gordon is a flabby oaf in B89. B89 is BINO! Could of renammed everyone in the film and no one would have noticed. Compare Joker in B89 to Joker in the comics/animated series to see how big the difference is.
10. Batman not the star- Nicholson owns the film once Joker is revealed. Batman has no development whatsoever as a character and his origin, other than the death of his parents, is never explained. Why name a film "Batman" is he's the least developed character in the film.
So as a longtime Batman guru, that's why I hate Burton's film. I also hate the other 3 sequels prior to Begins, but that's another story...and yes... Mask of the Phantasm does rock along with Subzero and Return of the Joker (only the uncut though). And in Nolan I Trust...because unlike Burton, he actually read the comics when he made the films. Kind of important when your adapting something... -
DGDB...it actually makes the universe feel SMALLER, not bigger. It is like how Phantom Menace brought everything back to Tatootine. Anakin buliding C3PO, etc. The main tragedy
of Batman *IS* that Joe Chill was a random street thug. The super-villains didn't come along until much later. -
Who cares if a movie is "quotable" What kind of bullshit is that to rate any film. Batman and Robin is quotable. Doesn't make it any less of a turd that it is. Shit the most horrible films are usually the most quotable, due to their shitty lines.
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Your post is pretty much the last word on craptacular B89....kindly turn your attention to the even worse Returns? ☺
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Like "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"? Like "I gotta get me one of those"? Like "Nice Ride"? Christ, BB's script is horrendously on the nose. I'll take "You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?" over that ANY DAY. And saying the most horrible films are the most quotable is way off. Casablanca is probably the most quoted film ever made. Hamlet is Shakespeare's most quoted play. Last time I checked that wasn't because they sucked (not saying Batman 89 is in the same realm as either of those works, of course, just making a point).
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in terms of villains since one is a Batman origin story and the other is a Joker (or JINO IMO)origin story. TDK will basically be a remake of the 89 flick, so those will be a more fair comparison. B89 would have been better if it was a sequel to a previous Batman origin film...but I probably would have still hated it due to...well..read my earlier post :)
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that I was trying to make was that it's stupid to say a film is better based solely on the point that its more quotable. The examples you gave for BB having "bad quotes" are some of my favorite ones, so I guess to each their own. Gotta say "you wanna get nuts" and "Please inform the citizens of Gotham that Gotham City has earned a rest from crime. But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city, call me" suck pretty hard though IMO.
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..."Now, you wanna get nuts? Come on! Let's get nuts!", the movie suddenly becomes BEETLEJUICE.Laughable.Good thing that serving tray was bulletproof, too.
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Where do we begin (see! TDK is quotable too!HAHA)
1. Batman (once again) not the star. There's around 45 minutes in the middle of the film where he's not even on screen. Once again showing that Burton cared more about the villains than the supposedly main character.
2. The Penguin- WTF!!!!!!!!nuff said.
3. Batman killing more people than the villains- straps a bomb on a guy, sets a guy on fire, kills the Penguin, "accidentally" nearly kills Catwoman. Fails to save ANYONE till the end when the kids are in danger.
4. Film way too weird- why does penguin have green blood? why is Catwoman undead? Why do penguins have rocket launchers? (and they say microwave emmitters in BB was no "realistic"...even though the military does have such projects...but I Digress...)
5. Batman/ Gordon relationship crap take 2- only interaction the two have in whole film (or any of the Burton films for that matter):
Gordon: Looks like the Triangle gang is back in town.
Batman: We'll see.
THAT'S ALL!!!!!!And he doesn't even look at Gordon during this.
6. Story- The cops turn on Batman. Then Batman runs away...then this plot point is never mentioned again. Bad filmmaking.
7. Writting- HORRIBLE HORRIBLE writting. Especially the dialogue between Batman and Catwoman ("Eat floor. High Fiber")
8. The ending- So Catwoman's immortal? WTF?!
9. Relationship between the cops and Batman- So it's allright for Batman to kill all the villains, but one stupid valley girl accidentally dies and all of a sudden the cops try to KILL Batman without even trying to question what is going on?
But I must say that Catwoman, while cheesy, was the only redeeming part of Batman Returns (though the film still completly sucks IMO and shouldn't be even considered a Batman film). The character's actions were spot on and she was portrayed similar to how she is in the comics (her origin was fucked up though). If given a choice between watching this or B89, I'd just turn the TV off, but Batman Returns would have the slight edge IMO due to Catwoman's portrayal.
Next up...why I hate Batman Forever...Now this will be fun!
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oh god...forgot about the serving tray...that would have been under #11 on my list :)
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BraneRobot=AnimalStructure=Thu nderBalls.
The giveaway? The second capitalisation in the name. No-one else does that.
I do that. -
See...this one is too easy...I could write a book on how this film sucks balls (and could write a 12 part series on how B&R is a big floppy turd filled with the tears of slaughtered children) so in a M. Night style twist I will start out with why I actually think this film is a better Batman film than either of the Burton ones (let the hate begin).
1. Batman is the star- still not that much, but at least he has some (gasp) character development no where to be found in the Burton films. And they even EXPLAIN WHY HE DRESSES LIKE A BAT!!!!!! AND THE REASON EVEN FOLLOWS THE COMICS!!! (though BB does it like a zillion times better)
2. Batman does martial arts
3. Batman/ Gordon relationship- Batman actually speaks to Gordon face to face. He actually goes to him when the Batsignal is raised.
4. Batman and killing- only person he kills is two-face and he actually feels bad about the stuff he's done in the previous films.
5. Batman acts like Batman-somewhat anyway. He treats Bruce and Batman as 2 separate entities (as he should).
6. Arkham Asylum- shown for the first time in any of the films amd portrayed pretty acuratly to the comics.
7. Film feels like the comics- The flow of the film feels similar to the comics (especially the 1970's ones).
8. Riddler lives- Batman finally does what he's suppose to do. Arrest his villains! Not kill them.
9. Metropolis is actually mentioned- sort of cool I guess.
Ok...now that I got that out of the way. Now for the easy part.
REASONS THE FILM SUCKED (I'll make this quick):
1. Two-Face- once of the worst characterizations of any villain ever. Acts like a lame version of the Joker. Two-Face is suppose to be full of rage, hatred, and anger and should hardly ever laugh...and should NEVER dance...shit!
2. Riddler- too much Joker in him. and WHAT WAS WITH THE PINK HAIR! I like Jim Carrey, but his portrayal was too over the top.
3. The love story- Lame, Lame, Lame. Too corny and stupid.
4. Nipples- nuff said
5. Neon Gotham- Nuff said
6. Robin- why is Robin the same age as Batman?! Why does he have a brother? Why does he get so traumatized from his parent's death when he's like 30.
7. Riddler's island- no...just...just no.
8. Two-face flipping the coin until he get's the side he wants- no...no no no no noooooo!
9. Joel Schumacher- Earth's greatest monster.
10. Gordon- Still a stupid flabby oaf that's a mere shadow of his comic book self.
So yeah...movie is still complete shit and I hate it, but it is the best "batman film" out of the original 4 crappy films prior to BB (and excluding the perfect animated ones).
And I refuse to say anything about Batman and Robin, because that's not even a film. My last shit was better than that abortion.
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Yep. That's pretty much the last word on the subject. Previous Bat flicks are Batman movies in name only, and in the fact that there's a man in them who wears a Bat suit. Otherwise, those aren't the characters, and those aren't well-made movies. People may tell you you're wrong, but it doesn't matter. Let 'em spit and sputter. Fuck 'em. You nailed it.
And to 5-15-9.... well played! Aces, in fact! Who likes to rock the party? 5-15-9 likes to rock the party. -
Uh-huh. Amid the shit storm that is Batman Returns, the Catwoman character is pretty much spot-on. She's the only bright spot in that whole movie. Yet it still borders on unwatchable.For sure: "If given a choice between watching this or B89, I'd just turn the TV off". Well said."I refuse to say anything about Batman and Robin, because that's not even a film." Indeed.And yep, Batman Forever is, paradoxically, the best of the first 4 Batman movies. Yet it totally sucks. How does that work? It's almost like a magic trick. That shouldn't be the case.Yet that is the case.It's like a Philip K Dick novel or something.
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B89 was good if you count the tone of the movie overall. It was dark, I believed in Gotham, MK, when in costume (despite his stature) played the character well. It was his Bruce that I didn't care for.
BR was....okay. I think it was bold to have the Penguin as the main villain with Catwoman (say what you want, Michelle Pfieffer is still hot even at, what? 90?) as the best supporting role out of either of the two films.
Batman and Robin, Batman Forever....don't exist. Okay, if they HAVE to exist, then let's just say if reading Garfield is funny to you, take all the least funny ones, throw in the rubbery mock-up of satan himself, Jim Carey, add way more colors than need be in a Batman film, rubber nipple antennae, bad performances by a couple of marginally talented actors and actresses, throw it all in a blender of poorly paced dicing blades, and there you have it: a couple of movies for people who think Dane Cook is funny. They deserve it.
What I liked about the relaunching of the franchise (I hate that word) is that with Batman Begins, 90 percent of the movie was about, get this, Batman!!!(!)
I say bring on The Dark Knight and screw the naysayers on Ledger's Joker.
I don't care if Nolan made him look like Catwoman. The Joker's essence is his personality and character before anything else. Makeup? Skin disfigurement? Who cares. -
Great answer! Straight to the point and just baring seeing Two-Face is making me all hot and bothered! If has to contend with 3 villians all at different times and different places. OH YEAH BABY! The Knight is gonna save this summer with Hellboy to boot!
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Just that it would put up the same numbers as it's predecessor, which weren't bad but weren't over-the-top awesome either.
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nothing personal, it's just par for the course here.
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Think you missed MY point. I was just stating why I hate those film, not arguing which one was more realistic. I just think its funny that people will get on BB for the microwave emitter and then defend Burton's unrealistic stuff. It's just kind of hypocritical IMO. Whatever, man to each his own, but talk about lazy writing, why were Gordon, Dent, etc brought up in the beginning of B89 and then abandoned when the Joker showed up?! IMO Burton's a HUGE hack whenever he tries to adapt something that isn't of his own creation (Planet of the Apes, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, etc). But that's all it is. My opinion. Doesn't seem like you even read my posts all the way through, but that's ok. Don't really care. Just felt like throwing my thoughts down.
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was that the first 4 films were, for the most part BINO. I wasn't talking about realism (though I think Batman works best when he's realistic). As a long time Batman nerd (I even know the numbers that Batman sets on his clock to go into the Batcave) I find those films to be nothing like the Batman that I grew up with (the one from the comics and animated series). Batman Begins and (so far) like The DARK Knight, IMO, embodies what Batman and his world is. The characters are the same ones I grew up reading about and watching on tv. I never liked the early Batman films EVER. The only true Batman film in my eyes prior to Begins was Mask of the Phantasm. In my eyes all other representations have been pure shit. I think me and -888 are on the same page when we say that the guy in those films just dresses like a bat. He isn't Batman. Batman Begins is Batman. Mask of the Phantasm is Batman. The animated series is Batman. Shit, even Batman Beyond is Batman. Burton's films are not Batman. Joel Schumacher's films are just poo, but Forever is closer to Batman than Burton's. That's what I think and that's what I'll always think, so there you go. Have a nice day :)
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But with Ledger's amazing Joker it's almost hard to get excited for Two Face. Because Joker and Ledger are cooler than Two Face and Eckhart. But still cool.
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Forgot to mention the clip! AWESOME!!!! Can't wait to see Two-Face in action!!! Looks like they're going for the Long Halloween version. LOVE IT!
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You make some pretty valid points. When it comes to films, though (except for when I turned my brain off for Transformers and Indy 4) I just prefer substance to style. One thing I forgot to say earlier is how B89 just feels like a hallow shell of a film. I'm not drawn to any of the character's I can't identify with any of them or anything that is going on. The film just wasn't deep enough for me. But like you said, it's all just a matter of taste.
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Adam West didn't pop a boner around Catwoman and Batgirl because he's gay in real life(not that there's anything wrong with that). Also...best Batman?!...can I buy some pot from you?
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this Batfan just can't take you're hate for BB seriously when you say Joker killing Batman's parent's isn't a big deal, friend. Take it easy.
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better than Begins...by FAR. Also Superman Returns was an absolute abortion....Well, up until Super Baby first appears, I don't know how it was after that because I walked out of the theater.
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It is well known that many lovely young '60s starlets and actresses slid down the "batpole". Yes, he used to have sex wild orgies and is a sexaddict. The reason he didnt get a boner while in-suit was he didnt let his dick get in the way of a mission, it was all concentration, just another reason why he's the best. Also interesing is he's the tallest ot play the role at 6'2'', i believe the real height of batman from the comics as well, personally height dont matter to me but that's something interesting. Kind of like Reeve at 6'4'' was the tallest Superman and the best.1
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C'mon, let's get quotes!
I can't believe the hate for B89 here. That shit blew up my world when I was 8. It was a cultural touchstone. I still remember all my friends on the block quoting shit from it...
"Where does he get those wonderful toys??" I love Jack Nicholson, I love how he don't give a fuck, and I love his "Fuck Canon" JackJoker. (Never read the comic too too much, so I'm not married to the material.) He's just a manic Jack in a Joker-type getup, which for me works a lot better than the queer HAM-ill version of Joker in the cartoons. (jks, Luke)
DGBD, I heart most of the shit you say but you have lost your nut on this BB thing. I think the origins portion of BB is the best hour or so of "superhero" film making I've ever seen. Bruce Wayne at Ninja Boot = geek heaven for me. Unfortunately, the movie Jumps the Roof when the Batmobile/Picasso Study/Tumbler Nukes its way into our Fridge. Everything after that is shit. Portions of 89 are shit. Portions of my life are shit -- large portions. What was my point? I need to refill my glass. Peace. -
It's my cross to bear.
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It is possible to get sick of pussy? I better watch out as I get AW-grade snatch thrown my way. Don't want to get so jaded I start cravin' cock to break the sheer monotony of hot starlets, models, and other hot-ass-istants constantly spreading their legs for me.
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Burton loves Batman Returns because that is a film he wanted to make. That was his vision. He admits that B89 was very flawed and a bad experience for him overall. Batman Returns has more in common with a standard Burton film right down to the music, sets, winter snow, quirky characters. B89 was a fluke. It delivered dark Batman/Joker to an audience brought up on camp. In hindsite the movie is extremely flawed:
1. Opening scene Batman stands there while two bad guys gun him down. This is the most un-Batman like behaviour. Batman was always about lurking in shadows and taking down bad guys before they could even blink. He'd never intentionally take a bullet. Secondly, it's dumb. Getting shot, even in a comicbook universe is fucking painful and dangerous especially if, like, the bad guys aim for your mouth! There's no way Batman would take a couple of bullets then get up without some kind of pain. In BB, Lucius makes a point of saying the suit is bullet-proof except at blank range. That is, you may get luck if they graze you but don't let them get the drop on you or you'll be dead.
2. Bruce Wayne is nothing like Bruce. Wayne is not this weirdo recluse. He's a playboy. He tries to hide the darkness within himself to hide his identity. Nolan got this right, making sure Bruce could justify his injuries and hide his secret life.
3. The Joker. People need to get over Jack. Jack was playing Jack. This isn't such a bad thing because Jack is a funny, entertaining Joker himself. But this isn't the Joker. The Joker is psychotic, pure evil. Like Hannibal Lecter, there is no explanation for what he is. In B89, Nicholson is creepy and murderous. But he isn't pure evil or psychotic. He's also fat and bloated, very un-Joker like.
4. The overt musical number in 89 suits the films made back then. This was in a response to Superman the Movie. BB doesn't need an in-your-face hero theme to annouce Batman. Batman isn't supposed to be over-the-top like Superman. He's supposed to be dark, dangerous, desperate, urgent. The score in BB and TDK plays to that. It doesn't force the audience to feel for the action in an artificial way like B89. It simply suits the tone of the film.
5. Batman 89 can't move. The suit is horrendous. Burton had to shoot around it constantly. That's why you get Keaton standing there, motionless, in half the fight scenes. Why he throws a few punches and kicks. The BB suit is the best of the Bat suits easily. The belt looked cool, unlike the action figure toy belt from 89. The symbol was supposed to be black to keep Batman hidden. The mask, right down to the ears, are long an defined unlike Keaton's weird little horns. The cape flutters in the wind. The B89 cape is heavy leather and only has a cosmetic purpose. The Batman Returns suits is way better than B89 because they could afford to design something decent. The B89 suit is a heavy sack with a belt and symbol.
6. The Batmobile. The first Batmobile was ALL style over substance. In comparison, the tumbler is an ugly utilitarian vehicle that gets the job done. It actually looks like it could take a pounding, a jump, fall, and turn corners. The B89 vehicle looks cool sitting motionless but when it takes off, it is no more impressive than a toy car.
7. Batman 89 is not even about Batman. We've all heard this argument a million times but it is the critical point. This film is all about Jack. Keaton simply can't compete with a scene stealer like Jack and you all know it. Batman was always the least interesting character in all the Batman films until BB. Nolan develops and respects the character, making him miles more interesting than Keaton's weirdo. -
I just loose any will to read your posts when I see a brick of text.
In case you don't know paragraphs are made by writing (without the spaces).
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I take it back. BlackCrippler=AnimalStructure=ThunderBalls=BraneRobot. The giveaway? The second capitalisation and the apalling neo-nazi sentiments.
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What do you do when you come across a post with paragraph breaks and the paragraphs are huge like the "brick-text" at which you divert your eyes?
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These Batman debates are just like the Hulk ones...
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ok, I didn't know how to paragraph on this site. Why don't you move on and stop bitching?
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hey I said nothing after the paragraph thing.
and to 5-15-9, when I see a post like that I just skip over it, because it's probably written by someone who will not add anything constructive to the debate anyway. -
That's pre-judging something. It's literally like saying "That book is too thick and not structured like a novella. It must be garbage, what with it not contributing anything to literature and all."
(see what I did there?)
It's funny, all of the Brick Text posts I've read have been good if the content was well thought out, researched and honest....OR bad when it was a poorly worded, rambling argument by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.
(I added another paragraph break, did you see it?!?!?!?)
Just like the non-brick text posts.
For real, chill out. -
At first, it feels like a Sopranos scene
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You didn't get the point of my post.
If a person knows how to use paragraphs on these boards, and uses them wrongly, like putting paragraphs everywhere or paragraphing once in a 300 word post, then that alludes on crappy basic writing skills. Which then again alludes on crappy thinking skills. And I never said that any of these posts are bad, or out of place, but some of them do hut my eyesies.
Besides, you're the one who should chill, I just pointed out that huge blocks of text are ugly and told everyone how to paragraph their posts in case they do not know how. You are taking all this too personal I think.
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People aren't being hypocritical when they complain about the lack of realism in BB but love Batman 89. It's all a matter of playing by the rules of the cinematic universe you establish. From the get-go in Batman 89 you know this isn't going to be a realistic film, and so you're able to buy some of the stuff that happens in the flick. In BB, however, Nolan tries to explain everything, ground the film in so much realism, and yet when the third act rolls around he pisses all over that with the microwave emitter. And yes, Batman Returns is more of a pure Tim Burton film, but that film is also way too self-indulgent. Burton had free reign and the end result is a film that's kinda bat-shit insane (this, of course, bit him in the ass when the film disappointed at the box office). While Batman 89 isn't pure Burton, he is still reeled in just enough so that he can produce a film that satisfied audiences and still retains Burtonesque elements. Schumacher had free reign with Batman & Robin, does that make it better than Batman Forever? And to those who say Batman Forever is the best of the first 4, what the fuck? Batman Forever is ridiculously BORING. It isn't nearly as satisfying as Burton's first flick, and it isn't nearly bat-shit insane enough to be compared with Returns or Batman & Robin. And the score sucks balls. Batman & Robin was at least hilariously awful; Batman Forever is just bad.
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Sho nuff.
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I agree with you 100%. In addition to a Batman nerd I am also a film student/filmmaker and I just find BB a more solid film overall. It is also a more accessible film for those that have no familiarity with comics. It's a well made psychological thriller/action film with a great cast (except for Holmes...who still wasn't as bad as people make her out to be), great acting, and great moments. The fact that it also feels spot on with the comics is just icing on the cake. B89 just feels sloppy when I watch it. Plot points and character archs are abandoned. Certain scenes feel disjointed (that whole scene where Bruce walking towards joker and that mime gang as he shoots him in his sholder) while others are just poorly edited IMO. Too many back-to-back scenes with the Joker (especially early on after he comes into the film)make the film feel too unfocused and without any point. Just a shallow film IMO. I felt the same way about Superman Returns, though that is on a whole other level of crap.
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Any film where a man dresses up like a bat and fights crime isn't fully realistic from the get-go, so it's unfair to pick apart ANY Batman film on that level. Secondly, Batman Begins is GROUNDED in reality. It isn't reality though. That crazy shit in the Metal Gear Solid games is "grounded" in reality. Iron Man is "grounded" in reality. The Incredible Hulk is "grounded" in reality. Batman Returns is grounded in it's own dark world. Batman and Robin is grounded in is own neon shitty world with Bat-nipples. There's a HUGE difference between reality and being grounded in reality. If there was a truly "realistic" Batman film, the guy would get shot and die in the opening credits. If Batman was truly "realistic" and not just grounded in reality, people would dress up in costumes and try to fight crime in the real world every day. Get over it.
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If you look at it as ONLY a Burton film...and I mean remove Batman from the title and just think of it as a X-mas spoof, it is a very well made film, I will say that. But Burton should of just made this film fully his own and changed all the names (similar what they should have done for that Halley Berry crap fest Catwoman). If I had to rate the first 4 b-man films (neither of which I like) it would go as this from a filmmaking perspective:
Batman Returns, Batman 89, Batman Forever.
From a Batman fan perspective:
Batman Forever, B89, Batman Returns
once again, I refuse to mention B&R because it isn't a film, let alone a Batman film.
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BATUSI MUTHAFUKAZ
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