Cool News
Seven Before Midnight!! The Brits Appraise A Controversial DOCTOR WHO 30.10!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Our limey cousins are all over the place on “Midnight,” the BBC’s latest installment of “Doctor Who” scripted by lame-duck showrunner Russell T. Davies. There’s like and dislike. The word “filler” pops up a lot.
“Spud McSpud” says:
Hey Herc,
Episode 10 is upon us - an RTD script straight after a triumphant Moff two-parter! I wasn't hanging out for a great episode...
And I didn't get one. But it was still better than expected.
The episode is basically a holiday destination gone wrong scenario - the opener being set up to get Donna to stay at her interplanetary hotel, soaking up the sun (through fifteen feet thick windows!) while the Doctor goes on a tour with a bunch of tourists to see a sapphire waterfall. There's a lot of scene-setting about how dangerous it is to go out onto the airless, highly irradiated surface... so there's the jeopardy.
Then some time into the journey, there's a problem. The vehicle they are travelling on stops, Ominous creaking and breaking sounds are heard. And, in the midst of lots of 20th century Earth cliches (can RTD EVER understand that FUTURE drama should NOT be the same as present time drama? I mean, parents bellowing at kids who ignore them while listening to music?) the tension begins to kick in.
The passengers are a typical bunch: an elderly Professor, the aforementioned couple (Biff and Val) with son (Jethro) in tow, the Tour Guide, a young girl (Dee Dee), and a recently split-from-her-girlfriend (yep, it's RTD) traveller Sky Silvestri. The threat is a strange hammering noise, like something trying to get INTO the vehicle. The strangeness comes from the fact that NOTHING could exist outside, due to the extreme conditions: so what IS IT? And when the hull is almost breached, and the prerequisite Star Trek lurching-from-side-to-side explosive interlude is over, Sky isn't herself any more: she looks, well, possessed, and by what we don't know. What we do know is that the entity copies everyone's words, driving them to paranoia and possibly murder, and is utterly terrifying. And even the Doctor's famed reasoning abilities and endless verbal diarrhoea may actually be his downfall in this Lord-of-the-Flies type psychological horror that shows that when you put a bunch of humans under pressure in a claustrophobic situation, the results ain't pretty - they're terrifying...
The Doctor is genuinely adrift here - like in the Tom Baker classic THE DEADLY ASSASSIN, he's companion-less, and his usual tricks of empowering people by showing them what they're capable of is ably undermined here by the paranoia the passengers feel at the actions of this creepy entity that is suddenly among them. Whatever it is, it wants the Doctor out of the picture... and that it remains unexplained and nameless only makes the whole situation much more frightening. This is a far, far better RTD effort than we are used to, and while it remains light years behind efforts such as FOREST OF THE DEAD, it has some excellent tension and believable reactions by a bunch of frightened victims in an unendurable situation who act just like people would - they attack, they scapegoat, they don't listen to reason, they just let their fear rule their instincts. There are minor quibbles - the endless LOST rip-offs in the incidental music, the 20th century set-up as if holidays don't alter in the next few million years (and this from a writer who thinks THE WEAKEST LINK and BIG BROTHER will still be broadcasting thousands of years from now), the tiresome cram-it-in-there gay reference (well, it is RTD) and the abrupt ending - I was still waiting for the resolution! It feels like the run-up to another, more final episode, and in a season with only 13 episodes, that's throwing away 1/13th of the season just to set up a bit of foreshadowing. The unkind among you may suggest that Lesley Sharp is already quite scary, but the way she contorts her face in this, with no make-up and only a change in lighting, to convey the malevolent intelligence of an utterly alien entity, is breathtaking - she gives one of the great performances in new Who, and makes you wonder how great she would be if she was given a much better part in a better episode. I felt she was more the Beast from IMPOSSIBLE PLANET than any other new Who baddie, that was the atmosphere I got from this (Jethro shouting "666" at her adding to the atmosphere).
In conclusion - quite good, great as an RTD episode, but still one of the lesser episodes in a so-so season. Never follow up a Moffat script - you'll inevitably come out looking less than. nd next week (cue spoilers for next week's trailer):
**SPOILERS - DON'T SAY I DIDN'T WARN YOU!**
Rose is back! Donna's Grandad looking to the skies, saying "The stars are going out!". Rose warning us that "all the universes are in danger". And a shot of the Doctor, under a sheet, on a stretcher, his arm hanging limp, dropping his sonic screwdriver - and Donna's anguished voice: "He can't be dead!"
He could well be. This is the first of the three part RTD finale (God help us all) - and it begins next week!
If you use this, Herc, I am SPUD McSPUD, reporting under Article 17 of the Shadow Proclamation, and I'm out of jelly babies. Damn.
“The Handsome 12th Doctor” says:
I don't wish to make this too political but I've realised Steven Moffat is like Barack Obama. During the last couple of weeks we've been envisaging this wonderful future where America has world peace and every episode of Doctor Who will be ace.
But then the dawning realisation kicks in and we remember we still have some time to go yet with the other guy in charge.
Ah no, that's being harsh isn't it. RTD isn’t Bush bad.
Russ has done some brilliant work. Bringing Who back, hiring top writers like the Moff, and he has turned in some good episodes.
It's just that all too often his grasp of sci-fi is a touch flimsy. Tonight's episode "Midnight" had some of his worst traits in it. The plain generic plot, the simplistic ending, the pop culture references. They were all there. Mixed in with some bonus bad ideas. Like a planet being called Midnight. Seriously???
I did like the build up of the group paranoia though, if maybe a little overdone. The knocking scenes were really effective in a Monkey's Paw way. And I loved how he adapted the line "No, don't do that. Really" when Donna copied the Doctor's accent, changing it from its usual joky approach into being something poignant.
But on the whole it was a lesser ep. An obvious filler ep. Mostly taking place in the smallest set you could possibly ever get in a telly show. To her credit the director Alice Troughton was able to get a lot out of that space. I wonder if she's any relation to Patrick. Doctor Dan probably knows this doesn't he.
I do know David Troughton is related. He's his real-life son, which makes him the second child of a former Doctor to appear in this season. He was rather good tonight.
In fact the tiny cast were universally good. The stand-out being Lesley Sharp. That repeating speech idea might not have worked with a less skilled actor but she really sold that.
The production design and effects team also did sterling work. The brief glimpses of Donna's spa and the alien landscapes looked beautiful.
I think RTD is very fortunate that even on his worst scripts the show's crew always strive to produce something watchable.
I'd say they managed this again. I found it watchable enough for a filler ep. Though at the back of my mind I was constantly thinking 'The next few episodes had better be bloody good!'
“O Goncho” says:
I'm stunned. Seriously stunned.
I've just watched what is easily one of the best Doctor Who's yet. This episode was something rare, something to be treasured - an episode of New Who which relied on real character and suspense, full of genuine creepiness instead of tacky cliches and fish-headed aliens!
After an unexpected accident aboard a... well, aboard something (I missed the intro) the Doctor and a... box... of passengers come into contact with a mysterious lifeform who begins to mimic everything they say. That's really all there is to it, and put like that it sounds a little flat, but the basic premise is used as a chance to explore the dark and violent natures at the heart of humanity, which forces the Doctor to confront his own naive fascination with humans whilst struggling to maintain some degree of control in a situation poised on the brink of chaos. The mimic itself is an ingenius idea, executed flawlessly and proved thoroughly unsettling throughout; forget Moffat's space skeletons, I'm betting this shit will cause a few nightmares tonight.
And to make this roaring success seem all the more shocking, it was written by Russel T. Davis! Stunning. Bravo to the man; I long since gave up hope of him ever producing a Who episode of any worth, but if anything Midnight will now forever stand as the brilliant exception to his otherwise flawlessly bad bibliography.
Still stunned,
“Wilftonville” says:
Russell T begins his four-episode dash to the finish with an almost entirely Donna-less episode that almost single-handedly proves how much the Doctor needs a foil. The twosome have gone for a relaxing spa-break, which brilliantly means something completely different for each of them. While Donna wants to kick back and sunbathe, the Doctor is itching to go see things. If there’s one thing that Davies has always captured well, it’s the personality of the Doctor, and this episode gives him a strong showing. He goes off and leaves Donna (who gets her own Donna-centric episode next week), thus becoming the star of his own show as the trainride he takes is hijacked by… something.
Davies takes this admittedly short premise and plays it as a psychological affair, seeing how different people react to the pressure of, y’know, alien stuff. The Doctor is accompanied by a ragtag gang of clichés, including a professor and his assistant, a family where the son is infinitely smarter than the parents, and the mysterious stranger, played by Lesley Sharp. This is where things fall apart. Whilst the premise is competent enough, Davies flunks because each of his characters has to bend around the will of the plot. Remember how I said the Doctor is always well-characterised? I lied. He’s well characterised until Davies needs him to not be in order to further the plot. The episode thus descends into an array of shouting which gets nobody anywhere.
The atmosphere that was all around during the two library episodes is completely gone, creating an episode that seems strangely dull and certainly not as intense as would be required. Things happen, and I won’t spoil any of them, but they don’t seem to be as bad as the central characters make out. The actors here, by the way – playing it by the book. They’re all decent, and lord knows Lesley Sharp has a VERY difficult job with what her role asks of her… and they’re all competent enough. Nobody really shines out, and by the end you want most of them to die (and maybe they do? I will never tell). Then again, that’s usually the way with supporting casts.
So basically a load of people are trapped in a small area, strange things happen, things escalate, and then there’s a kinda flat ending which doesn’t help matters much. Donna seems to be acknowledged by the entire Dr Who team as a calming presence now, though, which helps the final scene out tremendously. It's nice to see her transition from fishwife to actual person. Overall though, the episode has FILLER written all over it with black marker-pen. It’s not awful by any means, just… competent.
Rating: C.
“DJ Bollocks” says:
Oh good God....
Gay references - check !
Ex Eastenders star - check !
Bottle show - check !
I'm sure someone else will recap this car crash of an episode only notable by I believe a Double Troughton connection - Patrick's brother David and his daughter Alice ?
Can you imagine if they'd gone from the Moff 2 parter to the finale 2 parter... but no we had to have this...
We're half an hour in and I'm so bored - not even interested - the acting is poor, the writing is poor the concept (The Doctor's voice has been stolen) is like something Moff would have gone "Nah, that's a bit shit..." And it's really quite unpleasant to watch people shouting badly at each other because the writer or director couldn't come up with any better way to bring the idea to life.
What are we left at the end ? Pretty indifferent really until the "Next Week" trail comes up with the Doctor apparently dead, Donna with something on her back and Rose saying that Donna's already dead...
“Kelvington” says:
As filler episodes go, this one isn’t terrible. It’s a nice mix of Twilight Zone, and Airport. Now while this is NOT the Doctor-less episode we get every year, it is a Donna-less one, and that’s not a bad thing. As much I’ve been enjoying Donna this year, it’s nice to get a little breather from her, this go round.
The action is very standard, truck/plane is flying along, it breaks down, people panic, people die. Lots of great moments of panic and not knowing what’s going on, (very TZone-ish) and the Doctor trying to be the calm in the eye of the storm.
We hear how impossible it is to live outside the ship, thanks to an handy expert of the planet, and how NO ONE EVER has come here before. This type of obvious foreshadowing is neither original or new, but it is something we’ve come to expect from RTD. Complete with a bit of Trek thrashing about, a glimpse of Rose.
This was a very cost effective episode, and is just a nice easy one to get you set up for the what will no doubt be a race for the finish of the series. This could have been an opportunity to do a Doctor Who episode live, since it mostly takes place on one little set.
While I didn’t hate this episode, it did feel very familiar and very much like the flying cars episode last year. It won’t go down as the worse Who ever, but I doubt it will be remembered as anything more than filler.
Just my 2¢
“Palimpsest” says:
Hey Herc
In short, another excellent episode from the quality season 4 of WHO. This week, we're Donna-lite as the Doctor and Donna go off for a holiday. Except Donna decides to so sunbathing while the Doc takes an excursion to the nearby local beauty spot, the Sapphire Waterfall. Except in the shuttle vehicle taking him and a few tourists there, things start to go awry...
"Midnight" has clear debts to the TWILIGHT ZONE ep "Nightmare at 30,000 Feet" and to various eps of UK cult scifi SAPPHIRE AND STEEL (or, hell RIO BRAVO, depending on how you look at it), but it's none the less entertaining for that.
Basically, there's a something outside that wants to get in - or might have found a way in. Cue shouting, possession, lotsa proper acting, Christina Rosetti's poem "Goblin Market" and a hefty emotional impact.
Solidly entertaining, and a real actor piece. Tennant is terrific throughout, particularly in the very effective coda, which sets things up nicely for a dark, dark season climax...
Till then, then!
Supercheap!!
$19.99 ($51.99 Last Week!!): From The Earth to the Moon
$16.99 Six Feet Under Season One
$19.99: All Buffy seasons
$19.99: HD Blu-Ray Blade Runner 5-Disc Uberset
$19.99 Carnivale: all seasons
$19.99: Mission: Impossible: Season One
$19.99 The Wild Wild West: Season One
$35.49 (or less): All Trek seasons
$49.95: Every Issue of Hulk 1962-2006!!
$94.95: Every Issue of Iron Man 1963-2006!!
$48.99: Every Issue of Avengers 1963-2005!!
Episode 10 is upon us - an RTD script straight after a triumphant Moff two-parter! I wasn't hanging out for a great episode...
And I didn't get one. But it was still better than expected.
The episode is basically a holiday destination gone wrong scenario - the opener being set up to get Donna to stay at her interplanetary hotel, soaking up the sun (through fifteen feet thick windows!) while the Doctor goes on a tour with a bunch of tourists to see a sapphire waterfall. There's a lot of scene-setting about how dangerous it is to go out onto the airless, highly irradiated surface... so there's the jeopardy.
Then some time into the journey, there's a problem. The vehicle they are travelling on stops, Ominous creaking and breaking sounds are heard. And, in the midst of lots of 20th century Earth cliches (can RTD EVER understand that FUTURE drama should NOT be the same as present time drama? I mean, parents bellowing at kids who ignore them while listening to music?) the tension begins to kick in.
The passengers are a typical bunch: an elderly Professor, the aforementioned couple (Biff and Val) with son (Jethro) in tow, the Tour Guide, a young girl (Dee Dee), and a recently split-from-her-girlfriend (yep, it's RTD) traveller Sky Silvestri. The threat is a strange hammering noise, like something trying to get INTO the vehicle. The strangeness comes from the fact that NOTHING could exist outside, due to the extreme conditions: so what IS IT? And when the hull is almost breached, and the prerequisite Star Trek lurching-from-side-to-side explosive interlude is over, Sky isn't herself any more: she looks, well, possessed, and by what we don't know. What we do know is that the entity copies everyone's words, driving them to paranoia and possibly murder, and is utterly terrifying. And even the Doctor's famed reasoning abilities and endless verbal diarrhoea may actually be his downfall in this Lord-of-the-Flies type psychological horror that shows that when you put a bunch of humans under pressure in a claustrophobic situation, the results ain't pretty - they're terrifying...
The Doctor is genuinely adrift here - like in the Tom Baker classic THE DEADLY ASSASSIN, he's companion-less, and his usual tricks of empowering people by showing them what they're capable of is ably undermined here by the paranoia the passengers feel at the actions of this creepy entity that is suddenly among them. Whatever it is, it wants the Doctor out of the picture... and that it remains unexplained and nameless only makes the whole situation much more frightening. This is a far, far better RTD effort than we are used to, and while it remains light years behind efforts such as FOREST OF THE DEAD, it has some excellent tension and believable reactions by a bunch of frightened victims in an unendurable situation who act just like people would - they attack, they scapegoat, they don't listen to reason, they just let their fear rule their instincts. There are minor quibbles - the endless LOST rip-offs in the incidental music, the 20th century set-up as if holidays don't alter in the next few million years (and this from a writer who thinks THE WEAKEST LINK and BIG BROTHER will still be broadcasting thousands of years from now), the tiresome cram-it-in-there gay reference (well, it is RTD) and the abrupt ending - I was still waiting for the resolution! It feels like the run-up to another, more final episode, and in a season with only 13 episodes, that's throwing away 1/13th of the season just to set up a bit of foreshadowing. The unkind among you may suggest that Lesley Sharp is already quite scary, but the way she contorts her face in this, with no make-up and only a change in lighting, to convey the malevolent intelligence of an utterly alien entity, is breathtaking - she gives one of the great performances in new Who, and makes you wonder how great she would be if she was given a much better part in a better episode. I felt she was more the Beast from IMPOSSIBLE PLANET than any other new Who baddie, that was the atmosphere I got from this (Jethro shouting "666" at her adding to the atmosphere).
In conclusion - quite good, great as an RTD episode, but still one of the lesser episodes in a so-so season. Never follow up a Moffat script - you'll inevitably come out looking less than. nd next week (cue spoilers for next week's trailer):
**SPOILERS - DON'T SAY I DIDN'T WARN YOU!**
Rose is back! Donna's Grandad looking to the skies, saying "The stars are going out!". Rose warning us that "all the universes are in danger". And a shot of the Doctor, under a sheet, on a stretcher, his arm hanging limp, dropping his sonic screwdriver - and Donna's anguished voice: "He can't be dead!"
He could well be. This is the first of the three part RTD finale (God help us all) - and it begins next week!
If you use this, Herc, I am SPUD McSPUD, reporting under Article 17 of the Shadow Proclamation, and I'm out of jelly babies. Damn.
But then the dawning realisation kicks in and we remember we still have some time to go yet with the other guy in charge.
Ah no, that's being harsh isn't it. RTD isn’t Bush bad.
Russ has done some brilliant work. Bringing Who back, hiring top writers like the Moff, and he has turned in some good episodes.
It's just that all too often his grasp of sci-fi is a touch flimsy. Tonight's episode "Midnight" had some of his worst traits in it. The plain generic plot, the simplistic ending, the pop culture references. They were all there. Mixed in with some bonus bad ideas. Like a planet being called Midnight. Seriously???
I did like the build up of the group paranoia though, if maybe a little overdone. The knocking scenes were really effective in a Monkey's Paw way. And I loved how he adapted the line "No, don't do that. Really" when Donna copied the Doctor's accent, changing it from its usual joky approach into being something poignant.
But on the whole it was a lesser ep. An obvious filler ep. Mostly taking place in the smallest set you could possibly ever get in a telly show. To her credit the director Alice Troughton was able to get a lot out of that space. I wonder if she's any relation to Patrick. Doctor Dan probably knows this doesn't he.
I do know David Troughton is related. He's his real-life son, which makes him the second child of a former Doctor to appear in this season. He was rather good tonight.
In fact the tiny cast were universally good. The stand-out being Lesley Sharp. That repeating speech idea might not have worked with a less skilled actor but she really sold that.
The production design and effects team also did sterling work. The brief glimpses of Donna's spa and the alien landscapes looked beautiful.
I think RTD is very fortunate that even on his worst scripts the show's crew always strive to produce something watchable.
I'd say they managed this again. I found it watchable enough for a filler ep. Though at the back of my mind I was constantly thinking 'The next few episodes had better be bloody good!'
I've just watched what is easily one of the best Doctor Who's yet. This episode was something rare, something to be treasured - an episode of New Who which relied on real character and suspense, full of genuine creepiness instead of tacky cliches and fish-headed aliens!
After an unexpected accident aboard a... well, aboard something (I missed the intro) the Doctor and a... box... of passengers come into contact with a mysterious lifeform who begins to mimic everything they say. That's really all there is to it, and put like that it sounds a little flat, but the basic premise is used as a chance to explore the dark and violent natures at the heart of humanity, which forces the Doctor to confront his own naive fascination with humans whilst struggling to maintain some degree of control in a situation poised on the brink of chaos. The mimic itself is an ingenius idea, executed flawlessly and proved thoroughly unsettling throughout; forget Moffat's space skeletons, I'm betting this shit will cause a few nightmares tonight.
And to make this roaring success seem all the more shocking, it was written by Russel T. Davis! Stunning. Bravo to the man; I long since gave up hope of him ever producing a Who episode of any worth, but if anything Midnight will now forever stand as the brilliant exception to his otherwise flawlessly bad bibliography.
Still stunned,
Davies takes this admittedly short premise and plays it as a psychological affair, seeing how different people react to the pressure of, y’know, alien stuff. The Doctor is accompanied by a ragtag gang of clichés, including a professor and his assistant, a family where the son is infinitely smarter than the parents, and the mysterious stranger, played by Lesley Sharp. This is where things fall apart. Whilst the premise is competent enough, Davies flunks because each of his characters has to bend around the will of the plot. Remember how I said the Doctor is always well-characterised? I lied. He’s well characterised until Davies needs him to not be in order to further the plot. The episode thus descends into an array of shouting which gets nobody anywhere.
The atmosphere that was all around during the two library episodes is completely gone, creating an episode that seems strangely dull and certainly not as intense as would be required. Things happen, and I won’t spoil any of them, but they don’t seem to be as bad as the central characters make out. The actors here, by the way – playing it by the book. They’re all decent, and lord knows Lesley Sharp has a VERY difficult job with what her role asks of her… and they’re all competent enough. Nobody really shines out, and by the end you want most of them to die (and maybe they do? I will never tell). Then again, that’s usually the way with supporting casts.
So basically a load of people are trapped in a small area, strange things happen, things escalate, and then there’s a kinda flat ending which doesn’t help matters much. Donna seems to be acknowledged by the entire Dr Who team as a calming presence now, though, which helps the final scene out tremendously. It's nice to see her transition from fishwife to actual person. Overall though, the episode has FILLER written all over it with black marker-pen. It’s not awful by any means, just… competent.
Rating: C.
Gay references - check !
Ex Eastenders star - check !
Bottle show - check !
I'm sure someone else will recap this car crash of an episode only notable by I believe a Double Troughton connection - Patrick's brother David and his daughter Alice ?
Can you imagine if they'd gone from the Moff 2 parter to the finale 2 parter... but no we had to have this...
We're half an hour in and I'm so bored - not even interested - the acting is poor, the writing is poor the concept (The Doctor's voice has been stolen) is like something Moff would have gone "Nah, that's a bit shit..." And it's really quite unpleasant to watch people shouting badly at each other because the writer or director couldn't come up with any better way to bring the idea to life.
What are we left at the end ? Pretty indifferent really until the "Next Week" trail comes up with the Doctor apparently dead, Donna with something on her back and Rose saying that Donna's already dead...
The action is very standard, truck/plane is flying along, it breaks down, people panic, people die. Lots of great moments of panic and not knowing what’s going on, (very TZone-ish) and the Doctor trying to be the calm in the eye of the storm.
We hear how impossible it is to live outside the ship, thanks to an handy expert of the planet, and how NO ONE EVER has come here before. This type of obvious foreshadowing is neither original or new, but it is something we’ve come to expect from RTD. Complete with a bit of Trek thrashing about, a glimpse of Rose.
This was a very cost effective episode, and is just a nice easy one to get you set up for the what will no doubt be a race for the finish of the series. This could have been an opportunity to do a Doctor Who episode live, since it mostly takes place on one little set.
While I didn’t hate this episode, it did feel very familiar and very much like the flying cars episode last year. It won’t go down as the worse Who ever, but I doubt it will be remembered as anything more than filler.
Just my 2¢
In short, another excellent episode from the quality season 4 of WHO. This week, we're Donna-lite as the Doctor and Donna go off for a holiday. Except Donna decides to so sunbathing while the Doc takes an excursion to the nearby local beauty spot, the Sapphire Waterfall. Except in the shuttle vehicle taking him and a few tourists there, things start to go awry...
"Midnight" has clear debts to the TWILIGHT ZONE ep "Nightmare at 30,000 Feet" and to various eps of UK cult scifi SAPPHIRE AND STEEL (or, hell RIO BRAVO, depending on how you look at it), but it's none the less entertaining for that.
Basically, there's a something outside that wants to get in - or might have found a way in. Cue shouting, possession, lotsa proper acting, Christina Rosetti's poem "Goblin Market" and a hefty emotional impact.
Solidly entertaining, and a real actor piece. Tennant is terrific throughout, particularly in the very effective coda, which sets things up nicely for a dark, dark season climax...
Till then, then!
-
+ Expand All
-
and this episode was just a budget saver for the next few episodes
-
And I stand by my own horn blowing... I can't believe I'm on the defending side of an RTD episode, but whatever; the man impressed me.
-
I enjoyed it anyway,I've been watching Dr Who when it's broadcast lately rather than taping it and watching it later so maybe I see things differently :).For the record I wouldve thrown them all out of the spaceship esp the actress who played Carol Jackson on Eastenders,lordy that woman was was well annoying,she wouldve gone first even if there wasn't potential disaster :>.
-
Easily one of the best episodes since the show relaunched. The script would have functioned as a stand alone for The X-Files too.
-
This episode was about ME!
This episode was about a very smart person surrounded by stupid people who don't know when to shut the hell up!
I have never seen my own life so perfectly captured in a 50min piece of television.
I have never related to a character as much as I related to The Doctor in this episode! -
You don't always need flashy sets and cgi to tell a great story. Myth confirmed.
-
This is shaping up to be the best series of Dr Who ever this episode wass fantastic creepy and clever. Well written, well acted, a cracking episode! Looking forward too next week
-
This was a great wee episode! Certainly not the let down people seemed to be expecting after the great moffat double bill. I can't believe one of the reviewers was bored with this one - it was incredibly tense - and much scarier than the last couple of episodes in my opinion. I'd say this was one of the three best stories of the series so far (along with the library and the pompei episode). Brilliant!
-
This episode reminded me of the Hitchcock/Steinbeck collaboration, Lifeboat. The whole scenario of a group of disparate strangers stranded, awaiting rescuing, suspecting each other of being a secret enemy, turning on each other and gradually convincing themselves they'd be doing the right thing to kill someone. As a psychological thriller without an on-screen monster, it certainly wasn't your usual RTD fare. Though as soon as Sky mentioned she had a girlfriend I just KNEW 75% of the comments here would be "OMG it's like gay propaganda gay gay lesbians gay everything's gay RTD's gay I'm not gay no really honest I'm not, ducky". Grow up. Mary Whitehouse used to complain about black actors on TV forty years ago. In another forty we'll be viewing the homophobic whingers in much the same way.
-
I cannot understand the negative reviews!!!! I just hope that there is as much good writing in the next three, and the specials next year.
-
Good to see so many positive replies, now I don't feel like I watched a totally different episode to my fellow reviewers. As for the throwaway lesbian reference I managed to miss that at the start, and spent the whole episode thinking 'my god, who is this amazing new Who writer? Who could it be?' a quick visit to IMDB later left my jaw dropped and my girlfriend jeering at me for apparently misjudging the man... I still stand by calling his previous episodes complete bollocks though.
-
Regarding the spoilers mentioned in the first review; the man on the stretcher can be an Alternate Doctor. After all, "The UniverseS ARE in danger"
-
i'm sorry but this was terrible...even worse than FEAR HER which is fucking saying something..
-
I agree with your grow up comment. flicking through the reviews I caught a few of the "typical gay reference" comments - it really pissed me off. get the fuck over it guys! hearing about homosexuality won't hurt you! nor will it detract from your enjoyment of an episode! - and if it does - then you're a tube!
-
then it just stopped dead without giving any kind of resolution, i thought the original Star Trek bridge type sound effects in the cabin was a nice touch!
-
It was nice that they explored the shitier side of human behaviour. The pasengers all came across as dumn ass, tabloid reading, bigots who couldn't wait to find something to hate. It's troubling to think that in the future arseholes like that will probably still be around. No compsaion, no clear thinking - just angry self preservation front and centre.
Time we moved on from that caveman like thinking, but I imagine there are plenty of folks a long way from changing.
Tennant was wondeful as usual. -
hadn't thought of that but I'll wager you're on the money
-
It felt a lot more poignant seeing the Doctor visibly unnerved by the end as opposed to him sauntering off into the Tardis with Donna again laughing and jeering. It was an unsettling, isolated experience for him and I think the ending stayed true to that.
-
It's much preferable to have liked an episode than not to have. I wish I'd enjoyed it as much as some of yous.But in all truth I didn't. Never mind eh? There's always next week.
-
He always asks 'who are you', but didn't even try to. I didn't really like it - found it boring. Who is an adventure story for me - too much talking, bring back Donna!
-
are joyless fucktards! Sometimes Russel has knocked out some naff episodes agreed, but this was excellent!! At last an alien that is just that .. Alien.
-
Why has nobody else noticed that this is just a swipe of The Haunting, and an overlong, repetitive and over-talky version at best.
-
leave RTD alone without his vision this show wouldnt be the smash hit it currently is.
i await Steven Moffat's reign. but i respect what RTD has done for the series. -
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull due to the sheer divide of opinion between the fans. As with the erstwhile Indiana Jones film, I am straddling both camps and saying that there were good and bad elements to this episode. Lesley Sharp is one of the most chilling Doctor Who villains ever but the supporting cast are some of the most annoying Doctor Who characters ever. Overall not a bad filler episode before the rollercoaster of the season finale kicks in.
-
But in this case I think that worked, because when they all slipped into their hostile, mob-mentality it made you resent them all the more. I'm really talkbacking way too much aren't I?
-
I actually like this episode, heavy drama more acting than special effects. Lesley Sharp is always good, I usually find her difficult to watch because she is so realistic (check out ‘Afterlife’) it gets uncomfortable. Despite this I am getting tired of the constant ‘Gay’ plugs, I think its important for minorities to have role models etc but it feels like Davies constantly needs to justify his lifestyle etc. I mean WHO cares???
-
...RTD's mention of gays in every episode. I hope the Moff keeps it up. A lot of kids are going to get the message that homosexuality is normal and acceptable - and it's a bit of a shame that some Doctor Who fans didn't seem to get that message when they were growing up...
-
I'm not sure if you can have a 'filler' episode in an episodic series. I can see how you could in a continuing drama like Lost. But in Doctor Who, most episodes are standalone. I suppose the episodes which might most be considered filler (if at all) would be the Doctor-lite ones. Which would make Blink filler. And that goes to show filler isn't necessarily a bad thing.
-
was a bit blah - I'm not sure even RTD knew what was going on - but I challenge talkbackers to come up with a better Doctor Who episode with only one set.
-
RTD goes minimalistic - who'd have thunk it? One set and a cast of six or seven under siege, brilliantly done. By far RTDs best Who episode. He had it in him after all.
-
For those of you wondering, Alice is NOT related to Pat or David. So now you know. I'm mates with David's son Sam and he knows nothing of the woman. Just the same surname. Oh and rather enjoyed tonight, Lindsay and Lesley were fantastic.
-
Firstly, it's completely over-egging the series to have throwaway gay references all over the place just to give the show a PC, all-inclusive feel. An example of when the gay references work: UNICORN AND THE WASP. It worked that the young guy had a secret to hide, and in that time period, it would have been a scandal, so it was sensibly handled.
As for the throwaway references, like tonight... does anyone REALLY believe that the percentage of gay/bi people vs heteros is 50%/50% (or higher) in favour of gay/bi? Because there'd be a much smaller global population if that WERE the case. The fact is, there are probably more heteros than homo/bi's - that's how it looks. As far as I know gay/bi people can't naturally reporoduce, so if there are 6 billion people on the planet, that's a LOT of straights. Yet RTD seems to want to portray in new Who the idea that there are gay/bi people in every walk of life, everywhere you go! This just isn't true... not because I have any feelings against gay/bi people, but I DO have strong feelings about proportional representation on TV. It's similar to the argument between Clint Eastwood vs Spike Lee - for all I know, Lee has a point that maybe black people were underrepresented in Clint's Iwo Jima (haven't seen them yet!) but Clint's point also stands: his movies were about the four soldiers who hoisted the flag in the iconic photo, so he wasn't focussed on the black soldiers. There's maybe a movie to be made about black soldiers at Iwo Jima - and apparently Lee is going to make it - but it wasn't the point of Clint's movie. Just as if RTD wants to push the idea that there will be more gay/bi people than straights in the future (which, if true, could only be supported by A LOT of surrogate parenting / cloning / lab birthing), maybe an established series about a Time Lord with over 60 years of backstory to keep up with isn't the place to push a gay agenda (which is CLEARLY what this is with RTD). If other writers can integrate the gay characters in a meaningful way into the plot, why the hell can't RTD, the man who wrote QUEER AS FOLK? And if you want a sci-fi show that's more gay than straight, either fuck off to TORCHWOOD or write in a decent reason why suddenly in the Who mythos there is someone gay or bi IN EVERY EPISODE?
Season 4 was looking so much more promising and mature, with all this stupid cramming-in-of-personal-agendas backburnered for once. If Paul Cornell, who is a devout Christian, can avoid cramming in Narnia-like Christ allegories because of his faith, why can't RTD either integrate characters that are gay/bi (and therefore important and relevant to his life) into the plots in a meaningful way?
And for all those who keep insinuating that we "gay agenda" haters are all homophobes afraid of seeing gays onscreen - GROW THE FUCK UP. THEN FUCK OFF. I'm tired of explaining why I'm not being homophobic with this stance, but being pro-decent writing. Anyone who doesn't get where I'm coming from by this point is either fucking ridiculously thick or a fucking heterophobic bigot, hiding behind the PC stance of being anti-hetero and pro-gay/bi in order to justify their despicable hatred of heterosexuals.
Gay characters CAN be successfully integrated into new Who... just not by RTD, who doesn't know the difference between a narrative and a fucking soapbox. -
a right relief as rtd writes easily his best slice of who... Ever. A superb follow up to the two parter. This was seriously creepy. It's a brave step to have your hero make a right cock up and be out witted to the point of imminent death. Great direction too and good back up by all the cast. Sort of fallen already for the chick with the glasses. Tennant was superb as the helpless, totally out of his depth doctor. Some of the reviews say this is a poor episode. I find this stunning even allowing for the stupidity of most reviewers. The point of rtds work being deliberately set in our present day is well documented.great episode
-
but not the best of the series. I thought it had moments of suspense and creepiness, and it almost felt like RTD was raising his game and trying to ape the Moff - but not quite succeeding. I liked Leslie Sharp, I liked David Tennant, but it was a bit boring at times. Hope the season finales will finish off what I consider to be the best series yet of new Who.
-
yet they're able to steer clear of personal attacks cos of differing opinions on an episode of a tv show.
-
Where?!? For the love of Rassilon, WHERE?!?!?
-
(1) Yes, there ARE gays in every walk of life, everywhere you go. They're not confined to particular professions or ghettos. Where on earth do you live?? (2) No, the proportion is not 50/50 - it's approximately one in ten, so the fact that, out of a cast of eleven one character is gay seems like proportional representation to me. (3) Homophobia isn't just queerbashing - it's when you don't treat straights and gays equally. The episode needed a reason to make her emotionally distraught and alone. If it was because her boyfriend had left her, would you be complaining about RTD not being able to integrate heterosexual relationships into the plot??? No. So shut up.
-
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2128586740102948996zIEzhY
-
As a long time fan who thinks RTD can't write SF worth a shit, he really raised his standard for this episode.
It flew along, nicely paced. In tone, it was suitably creepy and kept the SF nonsense to a minimum. It was also Catherine Tate lite which helped if you're a Tater hater.
In tone, it reminded me of the Stephen King movie/story, The Mist. There is something contemptible about trapped human beings who turn on each other so willingly.
So well done to RTD. Superb effort, and 5 out of 5 from this fan. Shame you weren't writing this standard (which was definitely NOT aimed at kids) from the begining. If you had been, maybe people wouldn't have been so vocal about getting you off the show. -
1) It should have been a live episode, how cool would that have been? and 2) it borrowed a little heavily from the Twilight Zone episode "The Monsters on Maple Street" where it showed when the power goes out in an area the people themselves turn into monsters.
-
Did I mention special "Gay Only" ghettos or particular profesions? Nope? Then WHERE do you get this stuff from? And in the area where I live, which I imagine is fairly similar to most places (ie real world, not Hollyoaks or Coronation Street) there are indeed gay/bi people, along with the straights. But, as with most real-life situations, people do tend to hang with people of their own ethnicity, interests, or sexual persuasion - hence we have an area which is primarily Asian (now with a sizeable non-Asian immigrant community too), the White areas, the mixed areas (where I live), and to be more microcosmic, there are the "straight" pubs (usually footy fan pubs), the "gay" pubs (better music), and the "mixed" (usually the youngest clientele). Black kids tend to hang with black kids, with a few white black-wannabes (usually called "wiggers" round here) around, and the whites tend to hang with the whites. None of these groupings are complete - there are exceptions in all of them - but the whole idea of "we must have a gay person, a black person, an asian person etc" in EVERY episode of EVERY series on the Beeb - it's not being fair, it's being unrealistic. If I were to watch QUEER AS FOLK (which I have), it would be churlish of me to expect plenty of hetero action in what is, ostensibly, a gay drama. In something like Who, where the onus is on sci-fi before anything else, the insistence on sketching character details that HAVE NO BEARING ON THE PLOT are ALWAYS found in RTD's plots. Take UNICORN AND THE WASP: it felt like an integral part of the plot. The guy needed a secret, the fact he was gay WAS the secret, and it was handled briliiantly. Take Captain Jack too: the best handling of his character was in the Moffat two parter EMPTY CHILD/DOCTOR DANCES, where the Moff had him cracking on to Rose (so we knew he was a horny bloke) then onto the doctor (so an equal opportunity bi horny bloke) - but never once did it feel contrived: just that he was a horny kind of guy, but who had a few moves when the situation demanded it (using his square gun to open the door, for example) - he was a PROACTIVE character. The way RTD writes Jack just feels like slash fanfic - and the way Jack is handled in TORCHWOOD is PURE fanfic. Spike and Jack fucking? There it is! Which is great if you want to watch the horny fumblings of two characters apparently written by a bi-curious teenager eager to shock his parents, but lousy as an adult drama with sci-fi overtones that is meant to be mature and serious. At least, that's what the Beeb would have us believe in the run up to the S1 premiere.
There's a place for gay sci-fi. But to take a show that traditionally didn't deal with sex AT ALL and turn it into the PC-fest it is now - let's face it, RTD probably DID like Who, but rather than try to convince the HEAT reading average audience in the UK to enjoy sci-fi Who as it was and should be, he HEAT-ised it to the point where the only thing his target audience give a shit about is "When's the fit Doctor bloke gonna fuck Donna then? Wot's a Dalek? Why's he just turn into some ovver bloke then? Pass me a kebab!" - basically, he's not turning the audience into Who fans, he's turning Who into a reality-TV 20th century trash culture-obsessed pale imitation of the lgorious show it could be. I'm hoping Moff can turn the downswing around... but let's face it, he has the mighty PC-and-minority-pleasing-obsessed BBC on his back. I don't think it'll EVER be as great as it could be. Because the RTD target audience will lap up medioicrity - after years of BIG BROTHER and EASTENDERS, they have no clue what great sci-fi is. I have friends who love TORCHWOOD, and genuinely believe it is the best sci-fi TV has to offer - but haven't heard of, or watched, BABYLON 5, FIREFLY, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, LOST, SUPERNATURAL...
RTD's dumbing down TV, and using the gay agenda to get the PC Gestapo onside. Which is why the UK is the police state it clearly now is. If you love toeing the line, keep doin' that... I actualy enjoy having the freedom to think how I want to think, without having to be told how to by a shonky, soap-boxy narrative written by an activist instead of a writer.
Oh, and to the RTD apologists: he just got an OBE from the Queen. For services to drama. Further devaluing the worth of any kind of recognition from the Crown... -
How come nobody has mentioned that Russell T Davies was today been annouced as a recipient of the Order of the British Empire? If this means nothing to you then look it up - if you like the idea of a monarchy then this is quite a big deal. Name me another person who has an OBE for sci-fi/fantasy (I don't think Terry Pratchett has one yet (which is a travesty)).
By the way - this episode = filler. -
And then we can have arguments about too many scottish people on the show!
-
(Ignoring the rest of this talkback) I'm genuinely surprised by the reviews of this great episode. It may have some RTD signatures, but this episode is seriously at the level of the great sci-fi themes that inspired it. It's a great example of how to work within a budget, and create palpable tension.
In fact, why is everybody so hard on this series? One of the staples of Doctor Who over its entire lifespan has been the inherent cheesiness. RTD Definitely seems to enjoy that aspect more than Moffat does, which is one of the main differences between them.
But I defy anyone to claim that the possessed woman in this wasn't a genuinely creepy and creative idea. A truly unknown danger, and malevolent intelligence. Something so powerful that it can shake up even The Doctor, whom they've been playing up as almost god-like.
Come on everyone, it's not the polish...it's the story!!! -
And the main gripe seems to be the pacing, the lack of a solid ending, and the acting from the supporting cast.
Well, the pacing suited the script, I think.
The ending was suitably vague, and felt a little rushed and not very climactic. But I still think it worked.
And the cast were supposed to be annoying, with all the shouting, not-listening-to-the-Doctor and the turning on each other. And I think it worked. When that stupid mother said at the end "I said it was her" and I found myself speaking out loud to the television (not something I usually do) 'Shut the fuck up, you cunt' I know the actress did a good job of making me hate her. -
...from an early episode of CSI (in which passengers on an airplane kill a sick man they perceive to be a threat) and even Star Trek TOS (in which the spirit of Jack the Ripper inhabits several people at once). Still, it was an intriguing twist on these previous stories, and the acting was great (I love Lesley Sharp - she's on every TV show in the UK). Pretty good for a stand-alone, and I did enjoy Rose's face popping up on the entertainment screen. Can't wait until next week!
-
Doctor Who is not set in contemporary times. If you look at human history, you'd see that bisexuality has been the norm for great chunks of the past. Out of the first 12 Cesar's, only 1 was purely heterosexual. The others moved from one gender to the other without fear or favour.
To say that the population today is perhaps 10% gay or bi, and then demand that be reflected in a show about time-travel, is frankly silly.
The show has already established (through the insipid Captain Jack) that by the 50th century, humans will shag anything regardless of gender. -
This was actually very good.
My eternal frustration with the return of Who is that RTD has a track record of being both an excellent writer and a massive Who fan - and yet the combination has generally been mediocre at best.
I don't care what anyone says, this was top-notch, with an interesting conceit, nice minimal (cheap) execution and great performances. My main gripe as always is that the Doctor is far to easily panicked, and far too dependent on some random bystander to stop him from getting killed. Top marks to Lesley Sharp in this one (who IMO has been in the two best TV miniseries of the last decade - Nature Boy and our very own RTD's The Second Coming, thus serving as a reminder of how good RTD can be when he tries).
In the quality stakes, I rank this as the ninth best episode (after all the moffat greatness, and the family of blood two-parter).
However, I still can't forgive RTD for taking all the wonderful possibilities of The Master, Derek Jacobi and John Simm, and shitting oily green turd all over them. -
... then don't be political.
Otherwise, you just look like an idiot who doesn't realize words have meanings. -
I've seen better dramatic episodes of *Mile High* than this stinker. RTD obviously thought he was going to set out and write an episode that would rival Moffat's work, and all he did was turn in a script that mixed *Lost* with *Mile High*. I'd have to say one has hit a major low to rip off a JJ Abrams production. Phuk'n'a! The horns from *Lost* during the alleged scary parts? An evil being who cribs Ben Linus's skills of repeating dialogue as it spews out of another character's mouth? GTFO this franchise and stat, RTD.
-
So why no other kinds of sexuality, like aliens that get off on beiing electrically charged, or who shagg through holding hands or some other alien way of fucking?
Answer: it's A KIDS' SCI-FI SHOW!
So it's not so much the "more gay than is representational" (which does irk me) so much as the fact that Doctor Who is now as sexually charged AT ALL as it is - it used to be about aliens, mosnters and spaceships / time travel. The drama element needs to be there - but in pandering to the thick chav non-SF audience he inexplocably seems to worship RTD has turned a fantastic, intelligent SF show into a tawdry excuse to cram his own agenda (which is the under-representation of gay/bi people on TV in general) into a show that is completely unfit for that purpose. It just jars. The few times non-hetero sexuality has worked in the show, other people have written it. And if you go read TBs on stuff like the Agatha Christie episode, you won't find me complaining about the gay agenda WHEN IT IS DONE WELL AND INTEGRAL TO THE FUCKING PLOT!
Why is it so hard for everyone to understand that it's the WRITING that pisses me off, NOT THE CONTENT?!?!? I used to watch LEXX and FARSCAPE, for fuck's sake - where sex wasn't just hetero and homo, but went in many interesting directions!
Oh, and mooli_mooli mentioned THE SECOND COMING. I rewatched it last week - a classy drama, dodgy theologically but thematically and dramatically BRILLIANT - but the same cack-handed gay agenda preaching came into it: a big skinhead guy walks up to Eccleston after he is enlightened to the fact that he's the Second Coming. He rips a jumper off, to reveal a T-shirt that says GAY or QUEEN on it in pink (don't remember which) and says (I'm paraphrasing) "Do you have a problem with this? Because it says in YOUR book that you do!". Eccleston says "No, mate, fine wi' me", and the guy, slightly placated, goes and sits down.
Strangely, this didn't happen with any lesbians, nor a bestialists, any Muslims, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, Satanists; there was distinct lack of people of Oriental descent in the series, when they number more than a third of the Earth's population...
Yeah, RTD loves proportional representation. But it's HIS version of it - not the real thing, where the proportions conform to those in real life. THAT'S the fucking agenda - RTD pushing the world as HE thinks it should be, not as it actually is. -
Loved this weeks story. Brilliantly devised and well executed. Wasn't Lesley sharp also in Bob and Rose, RTD's ITV masterwork? I was gripped by the story this week thought all the cast did a good job.
I'm surprised by how much a knock on the wall scares me.
Felt alot like the empty child.
Only thing that annoyed me this week was another RTD problem getting the cast to explain the plot for the thickies.
"she's learning"
she's repeating what your saying."
If the voyage of the damned had half of the tension of this episode then it would have been a masterpiece. -
...because Moffat has substance. I'm quite sure even Moffat knows there's only 50 (not 57) States in the Union [YouTube that up]. If there's a *Doctor Who* parallel to Barack Obama, it's Harold Saxon. But instead of a repeated drumline transmitted through cell phones, its the repeated word of "change" being transmitted by the media infecting the subconscious of the average voter into casting a vote for the guy. Harold Saxon? Nobody had heard of him 18 months before the election.
-
I was wrong.
not that this has made me a RTD fan4life or anything like that, but this was a very solid episode with a VERY tight budget. ok, actors did their part as well (david tennant, don't ever go away. please.), but writing was almost flawless.
turning a budget restricted set and making it add up to the overall claustrophobia effect reminded me of the fog usage in the first silent hill game.
having a alien that requires no cgi, no prosthetics, no props and still menages to be all sorts of scary isn't very easy thing to do...
in fact I have pretty much only 2 complaints for this episode:
first one is that I actually hoped that the "alien" would turn out to be someone who's just trying to learn about us, and that the real villain of the story would be humans, angry mob that fails to listen to the voice of reason and ends up airlocking (heh... no pun intended...) that poor woman and whatever is it inside of her, leaving doctor shattered and disappointed in his beloved human race.
the second thing that bothered me is that phone donna is given in the spa at the beginning, when doctor is trying to get her to come along: really? I mean, REALLY?!?
I get it this was on low budget, but could they not do better then taking a handset and unplugging the cord?
REALLY?!?
oh, and as for people bitching about that "terrible and distracting" gay reference and how RTD is "gaying up" doctor who: for frak sake, people, give it a rest. this was not "captain jack" level of gay. it was more of a "blink and you'll miss it" thing. -
just differ on the details. In Midnight, we had one throwaway line to the extent that Sky Silvestre's ex was a woman. It wasn't necessary to the plot that it be a woman, but it wasn't jarring to me, or out of place.
I agree that in the Agatha Christie/Wasp episode, the gay guy did at least have a tangential relevance to the plot.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but we've had interspecies/bestiality sex on the show before, haven't we? With the freaky cat people in Gridlock? Wasn't there some human/cat mating going on in that? I only watched it once, thought it was a shit episode and never re-watched it, so forgive me if I've mis-remembered.
There have been many many things wrong with RTD's scripts in Doctor Who. Slitheen. Farts as humour. John Simm as the Master. The Christmas Bride. 20th century references popping up from here to the year 5 billion. Indeed, having homo-sapien life forms in the year 100 trillion. And so on.
Throwing in the occasional gay line or gay married couple is relatively minor, and in my opinion, not worth getting worked up about. There's plenty more to be annoyed about in the average RTD script.
The exception for me, is Torchwood (which is just badly written soft-porn for bisexuals with a welsh accent fetish). -
purely because it irritates the right people - the frothing mouthed homophobic reactionaries. I work with people who stopped watching Torchwood after Jack snogged Ianto. Fuck 'em. Watching two blokes snog neither excites or repulses me. Homophobes are just acting on pre-programmed social and religious dogma. Anyone thinking about it would realise how ridiculous the notion is. But, anyway - that Georgina Moffet... PHWOAR!
-
The Beeb should probably be blamed more than RTD for the lack of decent British Sci-Fi: after all, they consider Doctor Who to be a children's programme (just look at "similar programmes" on iplayer: "MI High"). That is what he is commissioned to write, and that's why it's not great sci-fi. Maybe, in hiring Moffatt, they've now realised sci-fi doesn't have to be juvenile. But anyway, frankly, it's actually a great step forward for TV to HAVE gay characters whose sexuality is irrelevant to the plot. Doctor Who is actually pretty ground-breaking there: that does much more for gays that Queer As Folk ever did. And in terms of not having said there were gay ghettos and particular professions - what the hell did you mean then about gays not being everywhere and in all walks of life?? And how the hell do you put line-breaks in these bloody things???
-
Why does the introduction of throw-away lines about lesbians, or Catain Jack flirting with men suddenly make Doctor Who "sexually charged"? Did no women mention having a boyfriend in pre-RTD Who? Did no male character ever flirt with a woman?? I find it very difficult to believe.
-
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2128586740102948996zIEzhY
-
things move fast round here !
-
There are like 6 more episodes until RTD has nothing to do with Who any more so I really wish people would stop complaining about gay characters so I can watch these episodes without thinking, "great, there's going to be jerks in the talkback making a big deal about it." Anyway, I think it was one of RTD's better episodes. I liked it quite a bit. I'm not looking forward to Rose's return because the trailer makes clear that she still hasn't learned to enunciate. Listening to her baby talk is a lot more irritating and offensive to me than random gay characters.
-
that they cannot admit this wasn't an awful episode.
on the other hand, rest of the viewers are relatively sane and consider it to be good, hence: teh controversy. -
RTD's gay agenda is purely aimed at young kids to establish the normality of gay relationships. It's not being PC for PC sake. I'm not gay, so i was not subject to the stresses attributed to growing up in a generally homophobic environment (which school is). This is something that Russell obviously cares about, and seeing as he gets to touch the brains of a million plus kids every week, why not throw a few lines in here or there, if it might make a difference?
-
Everything she does is incredible,Afterlife ( the best medium show written), and now this.
I wonder how many takes to synchronize her and Tennant? Doing the pi recitation must have been grueling alone.
Very tense episode. A terrifying examination of humanity not unlike Twelve Angry men.
-
Shameless has more of a gay agenda that Dr Who.
Dr Who's material is more in passing while Shameless illustrates damn near every aspect and puts in context making it normal. -
PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean, come on, for once, the Doctor didn't know what it was nor did he "Save The Day" so to speak. And, next week's episode looks even more PERFECT!!!!!!!
-
the very base of his chair/dalek looks VERY wooden. Right down to the star screws and what appears to be some knotty pine. someone needs to pimp his ride!
-
It seemed not to care that if you are going to have a whole episode based on paranoia and tension that staging it and framing it with that express purpose might be an idea. Not enough atmosphere. (ironically)
Lets face it though after some of the RTD Eps of late it certainly holds up and is clearly one of his better efforts.
Not shit but by no means superb. reasonable to fairly good.
The "resolution" and "explanation" are frankly best shoved to one side as RTD certainly did.
And BTW I couldn't give a fuck if that spcetruck was carrying an intergalactic gay pride march to space san francisco. Just make the characters and their actions BELIEVABLE. They jumped to almost random murderous rage far too easily & quickly here. -
To do line breaks, put "br" in between "". Then ask yourself why AICN still can't figure out a decent TB interface after ten plus years.
-
Put "br" in between the greater than and less than symbols. Fuck I hate this place sometimes.
-
If you use a you get a line break as well. It took me years to find this out.
-
I liked the episode quite a bit, but then I've never been as bent out of shape over RTD as some seem to be. The woman playing Sky did an excellent job, and as for the other cast members, I think they were purposely written to be a bit off-putting. I also believe the reason they became agitated as quickly as they did was mentioned as being due to the evil presence whispering in their ears, getting in their heads, something to that effect. It was when they were getting ready to chuck the Doctor out, I think the hostess said it. By the way, I love the fact that they never found out what her name was. The final scene with the Doctor so shaken up was good stuff as well. I'd give it a 3 out of 5.And since we have Davros and the Daleks coming up, can I just say I would love to EXTERMINATE all the people who incessantly bitch about "this week's gay reference?" If it takes you out of the story that much that you feel compelled to come in here and whine about it talkback after talkback you've got issues to deal with far greater than RTD's scripts. Give it a fucking rest.
-
Jun 14, 2008 11:00:02 PM CDT
THANK GOD FOR YOUTUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =0)
by the marquis de side 3
one of the best episodes EVER. it was really creepy and scary. YES, it was a filler, budget-saving episode, but it told a great story and you shouldn't knock it just because RTD wrote it. He's actually a very good writer, long as he leaves out the fart jokes. In fact, that's how he should write. Like he has no budget, and no time to waste on jokes. If RTD is concentrated, then he's simply one of the best writers for TV. And come on! When was the last time we saw the Doctor completely disempowered like that? Just go to Youtube.com and watch the episode. Judge for yourself. It's why I watch DOCTOR WHO and not all those gun-toting sci-fi shows.
-
cuz when i read them, i hear an american accent...and that doesnt seem right
-
How exactly? Jesus, some of the headlines on this site are just plain ridiculous. Still, great episode. Can't wait for next week!
-
no needless kitch, no running around, and intriguing plot, less use of the sonic screwdriver. I hate rtd's " work" with a vengeance, but credit where credit is due, it was a nice little ep.
would have been his best work, if he could have just removed the gay referece, hetrsexual moffat, i presume) doesnt need to bring his sexuality into everyep, i wonder why rtd has to? is he that fucking insecure? -
the problem is, it simply pulls you out of the episode. you're listening to the dialog, interested and involved and wham, then you're out of it after hearing rtd's fucking gay reference slide in once again.
torchwood, jack snogs fucking everything, no problem, thats the character, you cant watch the show if you don't like the lead, so you either deal with it or don't. in fricking Dr Who, which is a KIDS program, it's unfucking nessary.
done right, its just *meh* who give a monkeys ( like willow and Tara in Buffy), the way RTD uses a fucking sledgehammer to crack a walnut, simply bludgeons everything to death -
Seriously, it seems like people have some averse reaction to a character just even mentioning that their partner was of the same sex..... why is it that that pulls someone out of the episode, but if it was a reference to a boyfriend it would have been fine? I'd find it easier to swallow these complaints if RTD's point didn't seem to be illustrated by the fact that there are people who freak out just at the slightest reference to a same-sex relationship. And what does it being a kid's show have to do with anything? Are there people who believe that a gay reference in Dr. Who will somehow turn heterosexual kids gay? And really, what exactly is the "agenda" that people are so afraid of? Is it the notion that kids who watch this show might, horror of horrors, grow up and not freak out anytime they encounter someone who casually mentions their boy/girlfriend of the same sex?
-
I can understand why this is a divisive episode because either the tension sweeps you up or it doesn't. I liked the contrast between the plot-rich Silence in the Library and the focused simplicity of Midnight. It's tight, it's claustrophobic and it gives the Doctor no escape and no information to work with. Even for the Doctor there are things that go bump in the night. I wouldn't want every episode to be like this, but as an interlude between big sweeping stories I really enjoyed it.
-
Seriously, I wasn't expecting much from this episode at all. RTD scripted, a handful of caricatures (rather than characters), a tiny set and lots of shouting. It's gonna be shit, I thought. It wasn't. It was, in fact, tense, claustrophobic, genuinely creepy and superbly crafted. Whether the recognition should be handed to RTD, for actually writing and producing a decent budget episode of Who (unlike Love and Monsters), the camera crew or the audio production team I don't know - all I do know is that it was fkn good and I liked it. Even now, the next morning, I'm gob smacked. Sure, it had clichés, stole bits from Alien and the Twilight Zone but I don't care. It was a cracking episode that even managed to look good following a Moffat two-parter(!) and I'm sure many children in the audience shat their pants as they were introduced to some decent horror sci-fi. Let's hope the 3-part finale doesn't disappoint.
-
Haha! Didn't I predict in the 9th post to this talkback that most of the comments would be homophobic whinging? "I'm not homophobic, I just don't want to hear about them. Ever. They can exist behind closed doors and never be talked about; anything else is just political correctness gone MAD!" Gee, I really hope you whingers do get your beloved Sally Sparrow back when Moffat takes over - AND THAT HE MAKES HER A LESBIAN.
-
...are complaining about Doctor Who the same way they complained about Bryan Singer's "gay agenda" in "X-Men." Listen up, dickheads: you obviously hate what you see in yourselves -- adults who are secure in their own sexuality don't give a rat's ass about what other adults do in the bedroom, so just shut it, all right? Jesus Christ.
-
So? That would just make Sally Sparrow bi, based upon what we've already seen. Reminds me of that crash t-shirt I saw the other day...it read "I Support Gay Marriage if the Chicks are Hot". "Hot" bi/lesbian chicks in SciFi are a win win proposition. See BSG for a good example (or Dianna of "V"). Gay/bi male action in scifi obviously not a general ratings winner, at least over here in the States.
-
"RTD seems to want to portray in new Who the idea that there are gay/bi people in every walk of life, everywhere you go!" BECAUSE THERE ARE.
-
about RTDs "gay agenda".
A few people have problems with it. They've explained themselves. Now just stop going on about it.
Please! -
nearly lost your heads over that previous two-part bollocks of the dead. the uphill gardener finally gave a decent episode and you think its crap. all praise to the director too because I could hear everything tennat said last night.
-
for the first time. can't she and rose be the doctors companion and just nibble each other all the time?
-
It seems like people know it's a Davies episode and make their minds up before they've even watched it. This was quality Sci-Fi on prime time BBC One and I'm grateful. As for gay references, so fucking what?
-
So far Series four (or 30) has been the best of all with no real poor stories but last night was less than the rest of the series OK nowhere as bad a Love & Monters from 2006 or even Snake Dance from the 80s. But there was something missing, maybe I hatyed the charatcters, maybe I thought the bad guy was pathetic or maybe I just hate bottle shows for all they are are a chance to save money. Heck even Confidential was poor going on and on about the trouble filming the repeating when it started out about sound. I hope the money saved goes into a big final episode.
-
It was a great episode. Brilliant 'Cabin fever' type plot and the 'thing' was actually quite unnerving. I tire of RTD as much as the next man, but I'm not going ot trash this episode just because he penned it. And yes, I'd happily put it on a par with some Moffat episodes. He's not fucking untouchable. However, I was annoyed that RTD YET AGAIN had to shoe-horn in some gayness somewhere. It always stands out now as we almost wait with baited breath for when it inevitably turns up in his episodes.
-
..because a)it rarely has anything to do with plot and is tantamount to wearing a big sign saying "LOOK!!! GAY PEOPLE!!"b) For RTD episodes it has almost become parody, because he *has* to have something, somewhere, homosexual. You'll notice that no one really complained about it in the early series. c)It's become almost reverse homophobia. Like it's been thrown in to be considered 'edgy' for the sake of it and anyone who points it out (quite rightly) as pointless is ostracised as homophobic.
-
this is mad - since yesterday there's been all sorts of madness from posters. If you're not homophobic, why are you so angry? why is it so disgusting that russels T puts something important to him in his writing?? it's his writing. It's his show, and it's certainly not hijacking it to have a few gay people in it. It's brilliant that homosexuality is mentioned (it's not forced! - it's just there!) in a show aimed at kids, because maybe then they'll grow up not to be angry scared adults who get shocked and appalled at the mere mention of a lesbian on fucking space ship! "RTD's dumbing down TV, and using the gay agenda to get the PC Gestapo onside." - jesus christ!
-
Very tense, suspenseful. For the first time as far as I can remember an episode asked whether the people - humanity essentially - The Doctor was saving was *worth* saving. We've always taken The Doctor's love of Humanity, the Do No Harm kind of mantra on faith. Seeing it used against him, Crucible-style, was... unexpected.
-
angry or disgusted
-
Why does every second character have to be gay??? I'm no gay hater, but there is so obviously an agenda (which I dare you to bring up at OutPost Gallifrey) in everything RTD does. He's like the fucking cyberman leader wanting to "convert" all non-gays. Just really, really fucking tedious! However, last nights episode was quite good.
-
.. reverse homophobia? nonsense. these people aren't "pointing it out" they're complaining and getting riled up by it! and why? Lemming's explanations for why it brings someone out of the episode explain why it would bring a homophobe out of the episode. RTDs gay references are only a "parody" if you view homosexuality as "strange" or "quaint" or perhaps "wrong". If you don't see homosexuality in this way then there is no problem!
-
- Spud McSpud's posts certainly read to me as angry and disgusted!
-
My question is this - what was the need to characterise Sky as a lesbian ? And if it were a normal conversation would you have felt comfortable revealing your sexuality in the first 30 seconds of meeting someone new ?
Now of course you could argue that the future has more enlightened times and sexuality is far more casually observed but there was no plot or character reason for RTD to make her a lesbian - did we learn about the sexuality of the other passengers - no ? We can automatically presume the husband and wife are heterosexual as they had a kid, but what about the professor and his muse, or the flight attendant - did we need to know their sexuality to advance the plot ? Of course not... RTD might as well have had the captain and the engineer in the cockpit embracing for no apparant reason but it would have brought nothing to the story.
This isn't about homophobia but how about introducing a gay character where their sexual preference actually furthers the plot - rather than appears like a token gesture or something crowbarred in for the sake of it. Or as has been the case in some of the stories he's written in a kind of Fast Show "Suits you sir" camp stereotype.
And lastly, you never heard Martha or any reference made about her being black to move the plot on so why highlight sexual preference agenda as an issue if it has nothing to do with furthering the story... any other debatably taboo subjects we'd like to subtly challenge on Who ? -
"As far as I know gay/bi people can't naturally reporoduce..." Why can't bisexuals naturally reproduce? Moreover, you assume sexual orientation is some sort of genetic on/off switch that would naturally evolve out of the human gene pool, when in actuality it's something far more complex and deeply seated in both psychology and biology.
Anyway, did you notice how the Doctor didn't even bat an eye when Sky said "girlfriend"? Well that's how the audience should non-react as well.
Why don't you comment on how there were two black women on the cruise, while you're at it--that's statistically improbable, too, eh?
-
which makes it so jarring. It's like he has a point to prove all the time, which is then to the detriment of the story. It is all gesture and nothing contextual, which means his "sign-posted" gay characters are really sexually interchangeable, and only gay because it suits "his" agenda and not the story. However, Captain Jack (Steven Moffat's creation, not Russell T Davis') is the one gay (well, Bi) character we completely understand and his gay relationships (and straight ones) make perfect sense.
-
There was no 'gay agenda' in this episode. Are you high? Some character mentions off hand that her girlfriend left her and that's that. Nothing else. How can a single line sour an entire 45 minutes worth of TV for you?
-
The most puzzling thing about Who's gay agenda is the "natural evolutionary" spin they put on homosexuality. That is not how evolution works folks, men are never going to start producing eggs in their throats or assholes. Nor will women start shooting sperm from their tongues or fingertips. Spud raises a good point: With the huge numbers of people in Asia and white and black populations slowing down and in some places dwindling, in the future, no matter who somebody sleeps with, that person, be they man or woman, will probably be Asian. The Gay/Straight ratio will probably stay the same for as long as there are humans, if it ever gets to be close to 50/50 that would signify that the population is in the final stages of a sharp decline. What would be interesting to explore on Doctor Who is the theory that the Human race is on the verge of a fork in the species. Scientists talk about how breeding patterns could create two different types of human over the next several thousand years. That would be a sweet backdrop for an episode.
-
His episodes would improve. Look at this, what he did with ONE FUCKING SET. This could've been a play. And it was awesome. The Doctor lost, beaten all because he tried to reason with something utterly alien. And then the hostess we weren't supposed to like saves the day - using the narrow minded answer "throw it out" she's been shouting since the shit hit the fan. No money forces RTD to THINK, and we get a great "The Doctor was wrong" ep. I'm happy with it.
-
episode, above par for RTD and I liked the fact that The Doctor came across as an arrogant loon...cause he would without a sidekick to back him up...The paranoia was effectively handled, the performances weren't brilliant but weren't bad...but the ending was too abrupt and handled badly. But Next Week...Next Week looks good!!!!
-
There was not a massive gay reference in this episode. Seriously someone who was a woman had a female partner that was it nothing more nothing less and all the manly men have to blow up out of all proportion. Seriously me thinks you doth protest too much. Get over it! Back too the proper stuff, pics of Davros and the Red Dalek look good if they are official. The red dalek looks quite different from the other daleks. Who is inside? I wonder could it be an ex PM from flydale north?
-
Thing that annoys me is that if the woman had referred to her ex as "him", there would be no comment, if it was as "it", that would have been geeky cool sci-fi, but if it is "she", the talkbacks explode. If anything, if he had some sort of "agenda" other than reasonable representation, having an evil lesbo would be kind of shooting himself in the foot. I note that no-one feels it necessary to comment on the fact the casting of Dr Who seems to make similarly scrupulous efforts to represent ethnic, age and gender spreads. My main problem with the episode (other than my girlfriend waking up and saying "that was a crap episode") was that you know it could have been handled much better (as in "Blink" scary, rather than quite good).
-
Started off really shit, then went pretty great in the middle, then went back to shit for the end.
-
I thought he was pretty crap from day one, but for the rest of Doctor Who fandom he was an unassailable god-figure who could do no wrong. And to be frank, last night's episode was much better than things like "Last of the Timelords". It seems odd for fandom to suddenly flip on RTD now, but I guess they're ready to start sucking up to Moffat and declaring everything he does to be unassailable and perfect.
Next week looks terrible as Rose is back. The only thing that can save the next three parter is if Rose is killed off in a non-meaningful way and Davros is there to cackle as it happens.
Oh, and Spud McSpud is right about the Gay Agenda. -
but a great episode.
-
Because the gay references RTD puts in there are to point out "being gay is OK" AND FOR NO OTHER REASON. When he foisted Captain Jack's character onto Moff in season 1 Moff did something decent with him: it's possibly the only episode Captain Jack has been indispensible in. Everything else RTD has done with Jack has been on the level of giving a fourteen-year old girl (or boy) the chance to write a one-hour show for their rilly rilly fave OMG hottest lust-object EVER!!! We get it. RTD fancies Barrowman. Fine. But then he started writing for Jack not as a character, but as a lust object. Which then reduces the level of Jack's character to your average background female lifeguard in BAYWATCH.
I couldn't care less that he's gay. Take my example in THE SECOND COMING: Why not have one of Eccleston's friends been gay, and have him broach it in a scene where, once established that Eccleston IS the Son of God, the gay friend is genuinely worried about what the Bible says about gays, then have a conversation with him about it? Why the clunky, sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut scene with the skinhead, that is tonally out of step with the rest of the series?
And as for TORCHWOOD... were I a young gay guy who loved SF, I'm sure TORCHWOOD would be the biggest thing EVER. But it's shit. Badly, badly written shit. And it ain't the gay agenda making it shit: it's the adfolescent, plot-hole ridden, impressed-that-we're-like-controversial-YEAH! style of writing that reduces it to shit. The gay stuff in BUFFY was just there, and believable: people were just "Willow? Gay? Oh. Kinda expected that." And on it went. No fireworks, no swagger, no "Ooh aren't we great we've pissed off the Daily Mail readers" - it was just there. THAT is how to integrate gay/bi people into SF. As if they ARE NORMAL - which they are. RTD makes them seem abnormal by having any line referring to gay/bi people jump out at you like a scalded ape.
As for gay ghettos... Where I live, there are people who are fine with gay people, people who don't know how they feel, people who are not happy, and people who are downright hostile to gay people. I'm assuming (being straight) that if you are gay, you don't have some kind of psychic ability to tell who are the hostiles and who is okay with this. So knowing that there is something about you sexually that MIGHT drive some lunkhead to get violent with you about it, you'd keep quiet about it at work and go to gay clubs in the evening. In this day and age, in the larger cities like London and Manchester, being openly gay has no repercussion - and that's great: that's how it should be. But in the smaller towns, such as where I live, you don't see the gay community openly in mixed areas unless you go into a gay pub. I've yet to see openly gay kissing in a mixed pub round here. It's sad, but it is also THE WAY IT IS here.
So the gay ghetto thing people are going on about is this: in the smaller towns like mine, gay people keep themselves to themselves. It ain't the way it's supposed to be, but hey, we shouldn't have to pay for uni fees in England when the Scots get to go to uni for nothing off the taxes of the whole UK. Life sucks. It DOES need changing (the being safely, openly gay thing more than the uni) and soon. But it's more likely to happen if gay characters are treates like rounded, normal human beings with a purpose and a reason to be in the narrative (Moffat) than as a two-dimensional sex puppet with n motivations, no real reason to be there, and scenes that are so embarrassingly obviously just there to get Barrowman down to his pants so RTD can get all moist (THE LONG GAME - Trin-E and ZuZanna: "Where did you keep that gun?". Jack: "You don't wanna know.").
It's NOT ABOUT HATING GAYS, IT'S ABOUT HATING BAD WRITING AS DONE FROM A SOAPBOX, FUCKTARDS! -
I think it's Julian Bleach playing Davros he was The Monster in ITV's Frankenstein and appeared in Torchwood.
-
"Oh, and mooli_mooli mentioned THE SECOND COMING. I rewatched it last week - a classy drama, dodgy theologically but thematically and dramatically BRILLIANT - but the same cack-handed gay agenda preaching came into it: a big skinhead guy walks up to Eccleston after he is enlightened to the fact that he's the Second Coming. He rips a jumper off, to reveal a T-shirt that says GAY or QUEEN on it in pink (don't remember which) and says (I'm paraphrasing) "Do you have a problem with this? Because it says in YOUR book that you do!". Eccleston says "No, mate, fine wi' me", and the guy, slightly placated, goes and sits down.
Strangely, this didn't happen with any lesbians, nor a bestialists, any Muslims, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, Satanists; there was distinct lack of people of Oriental descent in the series, when they number more than a third of the Earth's population...
Yeah, RTD loves proportional representation. But it's HIS version of it - not the real thing, where the proportions conform to those in real life. THAT'S the fucking agenda - RTD pushing the world as HE thinks it should be, not as it actually is."
Still not hearing anyone refute this. RTD isn't interested in fair representation for EVERYONE: only for gay people. LEaving out all the "Buddhists, Atheists, Satanists, people of Oriental descent" etc. So he's picking the parts of political correctness that support what HE WANTS to be normalised on TV - and fuck everyone else.
That, people, is a fucking AGENDA.
-
You have the makings of an interesting, reality-based near-future series on your hands there. But I doubt they'd go for that on a show where a human woman can shag a cat-human hybrid and have a litter of kittens. I'm guessing intelligence gets up and excuses itself when RTD sits down to write an ep.
Interesting... he wants everyone to view being gay as being normal and equal to being straight (fair enough) but doesn't mind putting in some utterly dumbs shit like the cat/human/kittens thing in GRIDLOCK (sheer fucking stupidity).
If anyone wants proof that RTD is dumbing down TV with new Who, GRIDLOCK just about does it. As does THE LONG GAME. And most of his other eps.
Oh, and I DID enjoy last night's Who. Tight, claustrophobic, scary, very well acted by Lesley Sharp - easily the best RTD script so far - but still taken out of the story by playing "spot the RTD gay reference". *sigh* -
Why get angry about RTD's gay agenda if it is for benign reasons (normalizing gay relationshps)? an agenda that RTD himself wouldn't deny (he even touched upon it in the first seasons confidentials). You talk about it being jarring and in your face, what like Midnight?? All she said was wife! And who says characterization has to be about plot. When kids watch it (at least my two) they dont tut and go "ugh thats so jarring and out of place" they just accept it as normal. THATS the point!! Jesus. All these rants are revealing a lot more about yourself than your realise: immature idiot with no girlfriend i.e someone with too much time on their hands.
-
Very minimalistic, and much like a stage play. There's nothing wrong with economy. RTD did a fine job, even though it did leave me a little puzzled about **** SPOILER **** who was talking in who's voice. I thought that could be a little clearer. i got a text right around that part and looked down for a matter of seconds and, when I looked up, I was kinda lost. The Doctor was repeating and couldn't move. What happened?
-
Got to watch it with the gay reference reactions as I think that RTD is probably on the wind up now.
Having established that, with some of the overt sexual references made previously, he has managed to wind up some of fandom ( including me) it feels like he is seeing whats the least thing he can do to annoy people . In a way I applaud him for it as it does get you to start questioning your tolerance.
When the Lesley Sharp character made the comment about her female partner last night I tutted and thought "Here we go again ". But then that was it, one quick reference to her partner being female. And yet here we are today with vitriol streaming forth over something very insignificant. Certainly makes me think.
If I was RTD I'd be now interested to see if I could start WW 3 on the various forums by having one character give another a funny look. -
... and had the Doctor regenerate into a woman with lesbian tendencies who still wanted to marry her female companion, discovered the third setting on her sonic screwdriver (vibrate), and found the Master oddly attractive... ... now that he had breasts... ... and this was YEARS before RTD came along...
-
you're welcome, and I keep forgetting to play with the "Trailer maker" on the bbc site, that one's not bad sir, not bad at all.
-
Every time there's a single tiny gay reference, and last night's was tiny, are we forever going to go through this repetitive shit here? Always the exact same rants, and then the exact same vicious name-calling.I'm not saying people shouldn't voice their opinion on things. But once you have voiced it then we'll have heard it. So move the fuck on.
-
The following accurately describes every one of your posts... "BAD WRITING AS DONE FROM A SOAPBOX"
-
I thought Sky... ..was just an ugly man
-
...yeah, but that was funny. Moffat's joke 2-parter for the fundraiser was better written than the majority of the RTD scripts that have come since then. That little 2-parter even had more quality guest stars in it than NewWho has had. Rowan Atkinson, Hugh Grant, Jonathan Price, Richard E. Grant, etc.
-
I think the main problem with it was not the actual script but the fact that it was so low-budget and confined to one space.
Every Russell T. Davies episode I can think of always have moments that make me embarassed or cringe, farting aliens etc (or just Mickey), but this was thankfully without them. And the voice thing was kinda cool. Overall it was average at best, but maybe made me re-think that Russell could write something semi-decent if stretched.
The whole gay debate thing is getting tired, and the reference was so minute it was hardly worth mentioning. It is a bit like a college drinking game though, as soon the characters were introduced we were immediately trying to figure out which one would be gay... My money was on the teenager. Ah well! -
Was the conclusion of this story implying the Doctor isn't always right and that his liberal Time Lord philosophizing could actually be his downfall? After all it was the Doctor that argued against throwing out the "enermy within" because of his "all alien life must be cherished" mantra. For once the Doctor was wrong in his analysis and had to be saved rather than be the saviour this time round. In fact the Doctor was pretty useless in this situation and would've destroyed the entire planet's tourist population if he'd gotten his wish and brought the alien back to the planet's HQ. I have to agree with the negative responses on this TB about this rather odd episode. There certainly wasn't a continuation arc from the wondeful Moffat 2-parter where the Doctor seems to walk away somewhat empowered by the knowledge of his own destiny. True to RTD form this Doctor was a very different Doctor to the one was saw grow stronger and swagger into the Tardis by the end credits the week before. In fact, this stand-alone episode should've come before the Moffat 2-parter. Bad scheduling by RTD me thinks.
As a matter of interest I see there appears to be a device with wires attached to the front of the Tardis behind Billy Piper in a new picture for the upcoming Who episode. What can this device be and why is it plugged into the Tardis? Any ideas? -
it was mercifully Donna light however in a weird but good way, it showed us that, as one of the reviews pointed out, the good Doctor needs his companions as a foil to work against. Subtlety is not one of RTD's writing traits, even so the 'gay reference' bashers are very wrong. It was mentioned twice and by his usual standards very understated. Have to admit to feelings of unease with the 3 episode finale arc. RTD has an annoying habit of building up huge expectation with finale's then faltering at the last and with this one he's dealing with the biggie of Davros' return and the Doctors realisation that the timelords sacrifice to defeat their mortal enemy was all for nothing. I really hope he raises his game because he knows this is his last hurrah as far as Who is concerned.
-
Some people are gay. RTD is gay, so he writes gay characters into his scripts. Where's the problem? Better that 'kids' are introduced to other ways of life, sexualities and attitudes at a point before they've made an arbitrary decision and have been programmed to despise all that isn't 'straight' or 'normal'. Get over it. Really... Get over it! As for the episode, I found it tense, claustrophobic and well written, and The Doctor genuinely vulnerable for a change, and not at the hands of some monster, but from stupid bigoted people. I think there was a lot of depth to this one
-
This is the first time i've ever written on here so bear with me (I have a bit to say on the gay thing too but dont write me off straight away, its the bit after that i want yous guys to read!)!
I gotta say, frankly the gay reference did make me sigh because it didn't need to be there, It stuck out as an unsubtle gay reference when that whole bit of dialogue should have had very little relevance, except as being general conversation, which is what I believe the Doctor was doing with everyone anyway. To me it was quite blatant, and i'm a guy who, when he watches TV, doesn't have these things in mind at all.
Anyway, my main reason for writing is that I read about 3/4 of this talkback and no-one has mentioned the Rose cameo yet!!! I wondered what yous guys thoughts were on that front...I mean, this is a Doctor Who talkback after all, and we only get one of those a week!!!
Anyhoo, make of this what you will, i'm off for a smoke! -
Is is worst that when I found out RTD was writing this episode I knew that there would be a gay character or that I knew that there would be people in the AICN talkback complaining about it? Which takes you out of the viewing experience more: the clumsy inclusion of gay characters or when gay characters are included saying, "great, now there will be peple complaining about how this episode is part of the "gay agenda?"I usually don't read the stories on AICN very thoroughly because they include things like the stupid names of people who sent in reviews. As I was skimming this story I saw the first review talking about "the tiresome cram-it-in-there gay reference" and I said to myself, "that sounds like the guy from the talkback who always complains about the 'gay agenda!'" So I scrolled back up and of course it was. If you can pick out the author of a common on a web site based on what he hates, I would say that was pretty bad.
-
Jun 15, 2008 10:34:06 AM CDT
Curse of the Fatal Death also had best fart joke ever...
by prof ikamono
... with the Doctor and Master talking behind the Daleks' backs ( and literally behind their own!) ... ... by smell.
-
... Lenny Henry's Doctor was in England in the year 2010... ... now, THAT would REALLY be PC!!!!! ...in case you don't know about this bit from 1985... take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60shMyabeMo (fill in any gaps)
-
For the love of Christ can't we just stop worrying about this gay thing? Gay, straight, hetro, homo, it's all the same. You like what you like and that's it. And for the love god, 90% of the kids watching last night even picked up on the "she" line. And they are never likely to either. Kids don't care what gay or straight is, they don't care if you have two mums or two dads, they care about the next Wii game, or Xbox or when will there be Daleks? There was talk of Daleks, I want to see Daleks. That's all they give a shit about. Is RTD pushing a gay agenda? Fuck NO! If he had an agenda, The Doctor would be gay, a companion would be gay, hey Sarah Jane never got married... maybe she... Writers write what they know, RTD is gay, he writes from that angle. If you don't like it, then don't fucking watch it. No one is forcing you to, or raping your childhood here. For as long as I've been alive there have been gay and straight people, and I suspect that long after I'm gone there might be a few on each side as well. In the grand scheme of things, for thirty years there was no reference to people being gay in Doctor Who (that I can remember), and that is more telling than occasionally making a gay character or tossing a gay reference in once in a while. I think it makes the show seem more real in a lot of ways, and considering the makeup of the industry that produces it, it shows we might be maturing a bit.Finally people four little words - Grow The Fuck Up!
-
Such a division over this...so it actually must be good!
All I know, it worked for me. I was riveted. There was a much greater sense of fear and danger in this stand-alone than in the previous Library two-parter. (Don't get me wrong. Moffat made good again, but RTD ratcheted up the paranoia factor here big time.)Whatever they were dealing with wasn't just another alien but something unspeakable. The Shadows from Library were treated like a common menace, found everywhere else, but just in greater numbers at the Library.
The childish repetition served to crank up the feeling of menace and frustration. I think it's a credit to RTD that you as the viewer just want everybody to shut up so you figure out what's happening. And while the characters were board archetypes, there was some switches in expected behavior.
As for the claims of more RTD gay agenda...a few personal pronouns pulled people out of the episode? Forgetting the fact the exchange was actually quite funny (She said she needed some space so she moved to another galaxy!) it's not like the character then graphically discussed her sex life...or wait...maybe that's what people are peeved by! Two guys together is gross. Two women together is every man's fantasy. (Oy vey!) -
http://tinyurl.com/4pdkac
Their trailer maker is cool, although hard to make something decent. Fun nonetheless.... -
I loved that there was no explanation, and that the dr. didn't have an answer for once, and in fact, he even sort of made a big mistake in assuming the creature could be reasoned with. Good supporting characters and a story that revolve around them rather than some overblown concept. Hate to admit, but I thought it was better than the library two-parter.
-
"if it were a normal conversation would you have felt comfortable revealing your sexuality in the first 30 seconds of meeting someone new?" - if I was gay and in room full of Doctor Who nerds, no, given the reactionary hysteria in this thread, probably not. They'd probably take me outside and give me a beating with their sonic screwdriver toys. Presumably in the distant future, sexuality won't be an issue. Homophobia will be a historical issue. Ha! And the fanboys attack RTD for being caught up on 20th/21st century references!
-
Trying something drastically different, yet, in its way, brilliant. There was always a thought in my mind that Doctor always relies on other people listening to him - what would happen if they didn't. This episode explored that. Doctor was not the hero of this episode. He tried and failed miserably. He was completely powerless and incapable of helping - something we rarely see in the Doctor. It also had a profound effect on the Doctor (as any severe trauma should) and if the writing staff is smart enough - this should echo for many episodes to come. This was some real writing, (which is probably why so many people didn't like it.) Brilliant though.
-
Gene Rodenberry had a black woman, a russian and a japanese man on the bridge of a space ship in the future In EVERY episode. I wonder what talk backers would have made of them? i know you all know this but it bears stating. No one is saying that YOU have to be gay if you watch Dr.who, just that if you want to,it's ok. I thought the episode was genuinely great.
-
All of this "controversial" hoopla because one character (ironically out of 10 on board) made one passing mention of the fact that her ex is "she"??? Wow!!! People are sad.
-
They would have snarled that the black woman and the russian and the japanese man should be thrown off the ship. The irony.
-
RE: "if I was gay and in room full of Doctor Who nerds, no, given the reactionary hysteria in this thread, probably not. They'd probably take me outside and give me a beating with their sonic screwdriver toys. " I remember a time when if you were a boy over a certain age and you were still interested in Doctor Who AT ALL, much less a "nerd", the lads would take you outside and just give you a beating, nevermind the toys. They would also probably be calling you a poof or a queer bent bastard while they were at it...
-
...I've said this before on another thread, but consider... For thirty plus years the Doctor was this fey chap who dresses up and hangs about with a bunch of girls - all of whom he's "just chums" with. RTD changed all that by making the Doctor a regular bloke: from the working-class Northern accent to the leather jacket, Eccleston came off as someone you could have a few pints at the pub with and talk about football and birds.
-
Wow. Everyone was on the very toppest form in this one. RTD gave us some cracking characters behaving all too realistically. The director wrought some real tension out of a one-set location, changing camera angles and lighting to keep the whole thing moving briskly. Best of all was Tennant, managing to convey a real senss of terror at being trapped in his own body unable to move a muscle whilst an alien convinced the rest of the passengers to throw him out the airlock. It's all in the eyes, people...god I hope he continues for a few more seasons yet! Old school wise, this reminded me of Edge of Destruction, the 3rd Hartnell story, where the TARDIS malfunctions and the crew go stir-crazy. Yes, it was budget-saving, but a very good idea to split the doctor-lite episode from the companion-lite episode. Series 4 - best series yet! BTW - anyone freeze-frame the beetley thing on Donna's back in the trailer? Creepy...
-
ahahahaahahhahahahahaha
only problem is that I was eating while reading this. food all over keyboard, but it was totally worth it. -
"Is RTD pushing a gay agenda? Fuck NO! If he had an agenda, The Doctor would be gay, a companion would be gay....."
he fucking probably did want to but the bbc would have said no, don't fuck up our flagship characters.. which is why captain jack came about.. in who was his sexuality mentioned? nope, why? cause Moffat wrote it
Gene Rodenberry had a black woman, a Russian and a Japanese man on the bridge of a space ship in the future In EVERY episode. I wonder what talk back....
Maybe because Roddenberry didn't make a big fucking deal about it
RTD, couldn't have the doctor gay, or a companion gay. the bbc wouldn't go for it, cause they wouldn't want there franchise fucked. the only way that rtd can get his gay quota fix, is via ( no pun intended) the backdoor.
rtd is shite, his writing does pull you out of the epsiode, from alien pigs, farting aliens, to gay butlers. It should be a drinking game. anyway here's to davros being an evil warlord and possibly wearing lipstick and a feather boa
-
Do tell!
-
..didn't make aa big deal chekov, uhuraa andd sulu, you're correct. he just ignored them..
-
did it remind anyone else of this?!
-
....yet I could not look away
-
I agree that RTD can be a clunky writer. (which made it a surprise when i found out he wrote this because i thought it was VERY VERY good) i don't think he's been that in your face this season and i think what you are experiencing is what it looks like when homosexuality is normalised in a representation in science fiction." I respectfully suggest that the disconnect comes because we as a culture aren't AT that place. Rodenberry had an agenda- all races in peace, in space together, RTD seems to have one too. Boys and boys and girls and girls and boys and girls, all in space together. And i think Rodenberry DID with this issue- first interacial kiss on network television in the US was in star trek in the episode "Plato's Stepchildren" some stations in the south refused to show the episode at the time.
-
i think rodenberry did make a big deal of his agenda- the first - first interacial kiss on network television in the US was in star trek in the episode "Plato's Stepchildren" some stations in the south refused to show the episode at the time.
-
saw it 2 days ago. not earth shattering or anything, but has some potential.
just as people said, x-files-lite.
laughed so hard when I realized just how much that virus in pilot resembles alien virus in fight the future/seasons after that.
and intro sequence is kinda jaw dropping. literally.
I actually thought about writing my review and sending it to herc, but
a) I figured that about 200 people have already done that and
b) I'm too damn lazy. -
Are you talking about her being in the preview for next week's episode? I didn't see her anywhere else.
-
mouthing the word "Doctor" twice.
They reused footage which appeared as another cameo earlier in the season. -
thats old skool,koronis rift anybody,thats when lucasgames used to kick arse,big up all zzap64 crew ;).That Dalek pic is in LFC colours,stick him upfront with Torres that could work.
-
And though there will be untold numbers of people harking back to the X-Files it has to be said there are no obvious aliens floating about the place in his one.
Though everything else seems fair game.
And I don't THINK the X-Files was the first show ever to put paranormal subjects on the small screen. *cough* Twighlight Zone *cough* Outer Limits and many, many others... -
"Because the gay references RTD puts in there are to point out "being gay is OK" AND FOR NO OTHER REASON."
So, the one throwaway line about the character being gay is so bad? I'm not sure it's for no other reason either - notice how the gay person is the first one in the passenger car victimized. Of course, read another way it could be taken that the gay person succombs to evil impulses and plans to harm everyone else around here, so you can read into it whatever subtext you like. ;)
But, as you said, that is a sidelight for your main criticisms about the writing, and I'd wanted to address other points you had in your review:
"(can RTD EVER understand that FUTURE drama should NOT be the same as present time drama? I mean, parents bellowing at kids who ignore them while listening to music?)"
Why can't it be? You seem to have missed his interviews where he wants the audience to be able to relate to what is happening on the screen. If it doesn't, you can tend to lose your audience. Future drama doesn't HAVE to be like present drama, but it doesn't HAVE to be that different either.
Much science fiction is also written to relate to current issues, even if disguised (hence aliens having been used for race-relatinos analogies, and endless anti-colonialism messages in the classic Doctor Who series). As for how that would relate to your point
"the 20th century set-up as if holidays don't alter in the next few million years ", by having the vacations and such be something a general (non-SF-reading audience) can recognize means that there's a better chance that they'll relate to what's going on. Are all vacations like this? Probably not. But, you forget that even in its past Doctor Who had the Leisure Hive, which this episode seems to be making an oblique reference to with a similar "hive" in an alien environment. Why wouldn't going out and looking at that environment be one of the possible things to do? Why wouldn't lounging around and not doing anything (as Donna did) be another option? I don't see that it's a bad thing that he made the situation relatable to the current viewing audience, and don't think it's right to insist that taking such an attitude is wrong.
-
Rose appearing on one of the monitors. The Doctor had his back turned and there was no audio for the Doctor to hear her.
-
I'll have to go back and look for it again. Cool.
-
the trailer and then the fact RTD had written it did have me a little worried, but I really enjoyed this! To be fair to him he has written good episodes before, the first two parts of the season 3 finale were excellent, even if the last did screw it all up!
It perhaps wasn't anything original, people giving in to their fear, turning to their base instaincts, but it was well doen and it was nice to see the doctor not in control for a change.
The homosexuality reference in this episode didn't bug me like some do (see entire first seson of torchward) as it didn't feel like it was making a show horned in point.
People seem to forget is that to some people sexuality is just another character choice, like hair colour, gender, race. -
For me, the difference between the reference to sexuality in The Second Coming and in RTD's Who episodes is the irrelevance of it.
In the second coming it is quite important. A lot of bigotry has been committed in the name of Jesus, and it is perfectly reasonable that an angry individual who had been on the receiving end of that kind of thing would - given the chance - question him directly about his attitude. It fit with the story and I did not find it jarring in any way - but helped reinforce the character that Eccleston was playing.
In Who, it feels a bit like ticking a box. Lesley Sharp gave a great performance except in the one moment where she referenced a 'she' that she had split up with. She stressed the 'she' slightly - almost as if someone off camera was telling her to make it bleeding obvious to the audience.
Its not the content or any kind of agenda that bothers me - its that fact that, nine times out of ten when it does crop up in Who, it is irrelevant, adds nothing and the dialogue clunks onto the screen like a fucking ocean liner.
So yeah, I get your point, and I agree with your assessment that its quite often jarring and takes you out of the story, but I disagree with the extent to which it seems to bother you, and the notion that it is in some way a double standard about minority representation.
He's constantly trying to get across the idea that so many of the things that many people are uptight about (sexuality, gender, race) are products of our time, and do not always have to be that way.
However, it is easy to show outwardly obvious physical characteristics (eg. skin colour) as having absolutely no impact on the way people behave or the acheivements they can attain. It is much more difficult to show with sexuality.
You cannot just make somebody obviously gay without employing the very stereotypes you are trying to dispel. You cannot show them having sex with someone of the same gender as this is pre-watershed, and it would almost certainly not fit in with a Doctor Who plot (and we saw what happened with Torchwood...). That leaves trying to just mention "oh by the way I've just broken up with someone of the same sex this week" in passing in conversation to illustrate the multi-sexual non-judgemental gender-is-irrelevant utopian vision of the future RTD has.
It kind of worked with Captain Jack in the two-parter where he was introduced. Everything else has been quite ham-fisted IMO.
So I applaud his intentions, but not his execution in this case, and I wish he'd just tone it down a little. -
...these guys who bitch about gay references and the 'gay agenda'. In my experience, anti-gay thinkers dislike anyone who doesn't fit their narrow definition of a 'normal'person and that includes sci-fi loving dweebs:-). FANBOYS LOVE YOUR GAY BROTHERS & SISTERS!!!! When we live in a world where a politician can call gay people an abomination and 'can be cured with psychiatric help' (stand up Iris Robinson DUP in Northern Ireland) in 2008, gays need all the help they can get!!!! Back to the episode...started poorly-like the 1st reviewer, hate all the stupid 20th century references RTD showhorns in to future/alien stories (ruined the Voyage of the Damned)-but fun and interesting when it all kicked off. Nice to see the Doc with his back against the wall. Trailer for next week looked OK, but a bit of seen it all before vibe.
-
Seriously, no matter how much you scream "bad writing" you can't mask the homophobia.
All Sky said was "she left me" -- She didn't say "I'm a raging dyke and my lesbian lover left me." -- She just said "She left me" and THAT is "bringing up her sexuality" to you?
So when you say "she likes me" about your girlfriend/wife, is that rubbing your sexuality in peoples' faces, too? Or is that just using the proper fucking pronoun?
Between your spoiler-heavy writing, and your constant whinging about RTD's "gay agenda" you do a disservice to Doctor Who fans. Kindly return to watching Stargate if something as simple as a pronoun can set you off into an anti-gay tirade.
There was NO mention of sexuality in this episode. NONE. There was ONE FUCKING PRONOUN that just irked you, and all the other twitchy closet-residing homophobes, when it was a benign mention, at most.
This is the future, on another fucking planet, and you can't accept that a women would just casually be able to say "my girlfriend" without it being a big deal to anybody but a knuckle-dragger from the 21st century?
Seriously. Stop. All you ever do is bitch about Doctor Who, and take every opportunity to shit on it because sometimes it violates your fragile idea of what the universe should be like in regards to sexuality. I, for one, am seriously sick of Talkbacks being hijacked by this topic.
The Doctor asked, "What happened" and Sky responded "She left me" and THAT WAS IT. If that's enough to make you complain, then I weep for any friends you might have who are gay; They're probably terrified to talk to you honestly, because you're an intolerant, bigoted, narrow-minded fool who is trying to hide behind complaints of "bad writing" when it's patently clear what motivates these rants of yours. If sky had said, "Oh, yes Doctor. I'm a big lesbian. I love pussy. I should be allowed to love who I want, right?" then you might have a point. But as she only said, "She left me", I don't get your angst.
I'm not gay, but I'm also not a bigot. Some of the best people I've known have been gay or bisexual, and if they can't even refer to their significant other's GENDER-APPROPRIATE PRONOUN like anyone else, then what kind of life should they live? You want them to have to hide and sneak around? Lie to people? Lie to themselves?
Aw, man. I'm just sick of this. RTD has not pushed anything on you. You just feel violated because you cannot accept anything but your narrow world view. -
In fact, almost every episode of the show keeps featuring this Doctor guy. It's like RTD can't stop ramming his alien-time-lords-are-okay bullshit down our throats! You'd think that time travellers with two hearts were everywhere. And since there's only one of them, they can't reproduce naturally, so why do we have to see the same one again and again? Way to corrupt the minds of children, RTD.
-
About the ethnicities of the Enterprise crew.
Riiiight. Did the fact that so many episodes of Star Trek were ABOUT racism pass you by? Like Spock being disliked because he looked like a Romulan, or the episode about the race with half-black half-white faces???
Actually, I agree completely. RTD should stop shoving gayness in our faces with his damn pronouns, and instead do the equivalent of Roddenberry: have muscled blokes in tight pink t-shirts in the TARDIS, and episodes on worlds where there are three genders, where relationships between two of which are taboo. THAT will stop people whining about unsubtle attempts to stop kids being homophobic. -
I've been wondering how his updated appearance was going to be handled, it's a very subtle/respectful make-over.Does anyone know who's actually playing/voicing him??.
-
The solution: abolish all pronouns on Doctor Who. And end every episode with a nice heterosexual marriage - actually, just splice in the wedding sequence from The Sound of Music. That's pretty straight, right?
-
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/arts/television/15lyal.html?pagewanted=1
-
...so many people disliked this episode. Both my wife and I thought it was one of the best episodes this season. I'll admit, the ending could've been a little more interesting, but overall the acting, atmosphere, and tension were all top-notch.
-
Usually I'm one of those praising the episode, and can't believe it when people disliked it.But this week I find myself on the dark side. I don't like it over here. It smells of wee. I want to go back to liking episodes again. Hopefully next week I can.
-
Derek Up North challenges: "Name me another person who has an OBE for sci-fi/fantasy" I name JRR Tolkien. Not an OBE, but a CBE which is a higher award. Mind you, I suspect that Tolkien's was also (or even mainly) for his work in Anglo Saxon and the OED. However I name Brian Aldiss too, and also Terry Pratchett, who *was* made an OBE - back in 1998, I believe. Arthur C Clarke was not only a CBE, but was also knighted.
-
I don't know... I always thought the sound of music was kind of gay...
-
Why are all these Aint It Cool News talkbackers suddenly complaining about an allusion to lesbian sex? Have they ever even read this site before? The typical talkbacker is probably obsessed with lesbian sex.
-
Well said!
And well done RTD for getting an OBE! -
don't try make out stargate is less than dr. who.
and stop prattling on with your anti-homophobe tirade. people can be whatever way they want. -
I don't know if you Brits get the same ads we do here in the US but damn, no matter what your opinion of RTD there's no way he could turn out something that looks as awful as THE MIDDLE MAN.
-
for middleman - worst bag of shite on TV ever
-
You put that across exactly how I intended it - that it's not necessarily the gay reference per se that's the problem, it's how it's employed. Like having a reference just to tick off a box, rather than be an integral part of the show. It's true, the reference this week was fairly brief - but it sticks out as something RTD HAS to do in every episode he does - similar to noticing a signature shot in a director's movie (Michael Bay always has a shot from slightly low down, circling his central characters with a blue sky behind them - his classic hero shot). As for all this "Spud just can't accept anything other than his own worldview" - the people saying things like that only want ME to accept THEIR worldview! Hypocrites! My only problem with RTD, as I've said COUNTLESS times, is that he can't write gay characters WELL in Who - he has them as 2-D cyphers there to represent his normality, not as proactive characters who are there to advance the plot. The fact that Sky was gay had zero impact on anything, except as background info. And with RTD, his shows are becoming a "spot the gay reference" drinking game, as suggested earlier. I'd agree with Mr_X: I think ,if RTD has full carte blanche, the Doctor WOULD be gay - which would annoy me because in the past the Doctor has always seemed ASEXUAL - a character for whom sex is an irrelevance. As most of the posters on here are overhormonal geeks that may seem inconceivable, but the guy is over 900 years old - wouldn't he have fucked everything he wanted to fuck by now? Wouldn't he be bored to death with sex by now?
Nah. Not chav-thick HEAT-reading fat-housewife-attracting enough. RTD has to sex up the hero of Who to make him palatable for his intended audience - the non-SF watching idiots killing time before HOW DO YOU SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE REALITY SHITE?.
Mr_X has a point. I think RTD's REAL Who, were he actually allowed to have done it, would have been what Captain Jack is now - and he'd have killed Who stone dead as the SF icon he is if he'd done it. RTD has tried to launch his gay time-travelling hero, and it fucking failed - TORCHWOOD is nowhere near as successful as Who, and that's mainly because of the puerile, childish, immature way it is written and conceived. Rosasaks makes the point - why complain about what is essentially a LESBIAN reference? As a straight guy, I like the idea of lesbians! But the problem isn't the fact that RTD wants gay characters - it's that they're so ham-fistedly crammed in there, with no context or reason, that it becomes one thing to look out for to tick on your list of "RTD episode: must be (1) gay reference, (2) lots of indecipherable shouting at some point, (3) The Doctor saying 'I'm sorry, I'm so sorry', (4) References to the Doctor's general all-ver amazingness (even if it seems too egotistical for the Doctor)... etc etc. You could play a drinking game to RTD's ticklist! It's like all the stuff that made Bond movies stale: oh here's the fucking casino scene again. Oh, the female assassin. The double entendre name. The stupidlyy handled seduction of random femme at the beginning. The ludicrous plot. Etc etc. RTD's eps are a parody now, and although MIDNIGHT was the least 'parody' episode he's done so far, it still has elements of a ticklist in there. He's plain and simply a lousy writer on Who, and in sci-fi in general: the gay references thing is just the most obvious example of it. He just plain can't write, and the pro-gay reference brigade are basically just happy to shove a lifestyle that by their own admission only one in ten lives, in the face of all ten out of ten. So basically, a majority gets forced into the worldview of a minority. This is by far the most widespread, insidious problem the UK is facing today - the wishes of minorities being given far more importance and exposure than those of the majority, which is the absolute opposite of democracy - and it is reflected in the TV out put particularly of the BBC, but is rife in all parts of UK life.
Here's something: if only one in ten people are gay/bi, how about a gay reference in one in every ten episodes of Who? Does that sound fair? Or is RTD over-representing his own lifestyle (don't see many Orientals in Who, do you? Or disabled people? Deaf people? etc?) in an effort to force it on those who don't share his views, simply because he feels his views are more important?
I don't even care about the gay references if they're warranted - THE EMPTY CHILD / DOCTOR DANCES handled Jack the best he's ever been handled, and it was perfectly used in UNICORN AND THE WASP - but in the main it's a clumsy, ham-fisted rant aimed at homophobes rather than an integral part of the narrative written well. Whatever your stance on how gay/bisexuality should be portrayed on TV, the issue isn't that at all - it's how RTD forcing his views on the viewer at the expense of good characterisation and logical narrative is just plain and simply shit writing. And most of those disagreeing with me are straight-hating heterophobes who'd rather see anyone who disagree with them dead or out of the picture. Because they think their worldview is more important - hence wanting to deny others their own worldview. The persecuted become the persecutors, and justify it by the fact that they were persecuted. But two wrongs don't make a right, and becoming what you hate doesn't make things better.
Doctor Who was never gay propaganda dressed up as sci-fi before. The fact that it has become so in RTD's hands is more sad than anything else, and those who disagree with me obviously value a good political/sexual polemic than a good Who story. Which is the saddest thing of all... -
People are saying it looks like X-Files, but in honor of the esteemed Docotr, I say it looks more like another British import...Doomwatch!
A team of scientists running all over trying to solve mysteries related to environmental phenomenon, research gone wrong, and the generally odd? Yep, I'd call Fringe just another iteration of Doomwatch. -
Sure, it is decent, but it isn't some grand masterpiece as the RTD fans claim. It is a pedestrian view of religion that any episode of *Supernatural* out eclipses... And the message about God killing himself - and at the same time wiping out all of Satan's minions - in order to free the now grown up human race so that it can live healthy and independently is just a wish fulfillment analogy for a gay child waiting for its parents to kick the bucket so it can live freely and out of the closet.
-
you said- "Here's something: if only one in ten people are gay/bi, how about a gay reference in one in every ten episodes of Who? Does that sound fair?" a fairer correlation to "real life" would be to make 1 in ten of the characters gay. Which is probably more than we get here.. DR WHO IS NOT AS GAY AS REAL LIFE..(of course, i'd have to go and recount torchwood- i couldn't keep up- with who was doing what to who - it was like the last scene of Society at times)
-
Fucking hell lynx, you nailed that interpretation. Definitely never thought about it that way before, but makes a whole lotta sense...
-
What's REALLY scary is that I think the Beeb may have reined RTD in - had he done Dr Who as I think he may have truly wanted to, unrestrained, the result would have been TORCHWOOD with the Doctor in place of Capt Jack. Shudder. And TORCHWOOD is completely unrepresentational - that old cliche retort from the gay community about how everyone straight is actually a little bit bi (what bollocks) seems to be de rigeur on that programme, which only serves to make it look more adolescently written and produced. And as for the last scene of SOCIETY... Quality. Pure quality. As a working-class kid who got to go to a rich private school on an Assisted Places scholarship back in the day, I can safely say I think SOCIETY has nailed the class war (the way I saw it in the UK anyway) better than anything else I've ever seen. Though I never got to kill one of my enemies by fisting him to death. Maybe if I did, I wouldn't hate RTD's stuff so much ;p
-
And if RTD had REALLY had the balls, he'd have had the character who was demonic but ended up as Lesley Sharp's friend (Clive in ROSE) start up a local group that believed in the imminent return of Eccleston, even though they knew God was dead. So the human race doesn't even learn from God's suicide (deicide?) and carries on with pointless religions based on the idea that God WILL return from the dead... THAT would have been an ending with balls, with Lesley Sharp's character thinking that after everything she'd done, it was all pointless.
Damn, that's bleak. Fuck. -
That's stretching it to say the least.
-
I promise you, you will love the LAST 3 episodes, I already know I will. (All you wonderful Doctor Who fans better enjoy and love them, since next year we only get 4 "Bank Holiday Specials", oh f**k, what are "Bank Holidays"? Please don't tell me "it's when the banks are closed", this american jerk already figured that out. I mean, if 1 & 4 are the xmas special, when do we see 2 & 3? Oh, and just a reminder, don't forget to enjoy the LAST 3 episodes of Doctor Who, I already know I will, but, you already know that, didn't you?
-
i can't really fairly comment on speculation about what RTD's intentions were (since to the best of my knowledge, none of us are him) and i don't find things that didn't happen scary.. especially in retrospect :-) Torchwood, whilst being a sexual free for all is what it is and has been pretty honest that it's attitude to sexuality was "everyone's a bit BI" In season one it was clunky and felt very poorly delivered . Season two worked for me and i found it vastly superior- a more mature representation, sexuality seemed to become a secondary trait of the characters much more like real life, You do get workplaces that are predominantly bi sexual, where everyone is having affairs, and torchwood is a show about one of them. In season one it was a show about a bunch of really annoying people who slept with each other, and in season two it was a show about a bunch of eventually likeable people who slept with each other, and Spike from buffy.
-
Moffat's actually DONE something worthy of admiration. All we know about Obama is that he can give a good speech and everyone he associates with is either crazy, or mixed up in something shady. Barack hasn't actually accomplished ANYTHING of note.
-
They'll both be running the show soon.
-
Yeah, uh, no. those are bullshit lies that demonstrate you actually haven't looked into the guy at all. Do a little research before mouthing off, for God's sake.
-
I was particularly dismayed at RTD's rampant, unashamed heterosexual agenda that permeated this epidode. Did anyone notice that everyone on that ship was straight but for one woman? Horrendous.
Also; I challenge anyone here to write a script that tight, that is set primarily in a single room. For a character study alone, and for using the excellent trope of the unseen menace, it was very impressive. -
Please enlighten me and everyone else as to Barack Obama's great accomplishments.BTW, Midnight was a great episode!
-
Well, here's a brief list:
1: The HOPE Act, increasing the Pell grant for college students.
2: The Coburn-Obama government transparency act.
3: The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, which does a whole lot more to reduce the threat of nuclear terrorism than the Iraq war ever did.
4: The 2007 ethics reform bill, the most sweeping reform of government ethics since Watergate.
5: His global poverty act is out of committee, but still waiting on a vote in the full congress.
That's just legislation he authored or co-authored. By amending existing legislation, he's expanded benefits for injured veterans, increased preparedness to respond to avian flu, combated FEMA's no-bid contracting, and further improve government transparency.
In his time in the Senate, he has written around 900 bills and co-sponsored more than 1,000 more.
That's just what he did in his last 3 and a half years in the US Senate--if you'd like to know about his 8 years in the Illinois state Senate, I can give you another list. And, of course, I could also go into his time as a community organizer, civil rights lawyer, and constitutional law professor. -
...Yeah, I thought Midnight was pretty awesome. I've been kinda iffy on most of this season. I liked Moffet's two-parter a lot, but I didn't think it was *quite* up to his standard. Thought this one was a knockout, though. A couple of odd lines here and there, but mostly just straight-up tense as hell, claustrophobic, creepy. Good stuff.
-
She uploads both SD and HD versions of Doctor Who shortly after they air in the UK, with VERY fast download times. I got mine a little while ago in about 30 minutes via bittorrent.Just one BIG flaw with this episode. Practically EVERY aspect of this episode screamed that it was made in 2008, instead of being in "the future".The emo kid with his black nail polish and earphones... His parents who looked like they just walked off a suburban street (men still wear Izod shirts far into the future???)... the stewardess who dressed just like she walked out of Heathrow (Tegan looked more futuristic!)... The dowdy professor who dressed in the average brown suit, complete with tie...This WHOLE episode was packed with 20th century people placed in a supposedly futuristic and alien setting! Why are people in the future dressed in contemporary clothing??? They didn't even TRY to use costumes in this episode!I really liked the story, but honestly, this blatant lack of care in the costuming department is hard to excuse.And Donna and the Doctor talking to each other on antiquated (read: contemporary) phones was just the icing on this particular lazy bit of cake.
-
I like the idea there--to emphasize that these are *normal* people, you make them as familiar as possible--but I wish they'd done *something* to make it seem less bizarrely anachronistic.
-
Mad Martha is indeed a fantastic seeder, but I thought that new Who was only in SD. My understanding is that she posts a pretty raw version, and then a cleaned up version, but it isn't technically HD, is it?
-
Specifically, THOMAS — its U.S. Congress database — Barack Obama has sponsored 124 bills in the Senate, only 2% of which have actually been enacted into law (the average).And his co-sponsoring of 619 bills (not over 1000) is also on par with his fellow Senators in Congress. Not more, not less... just average.I choose Steven Moffat as the more accomplished of the two, because — unlike Obama — Moffat's works FAR outshines those of his peers.
-
I only download the standard definition version, which looks great to ME, whether I watch it on my high resolution computer screen of my regular TV. I assumed that Doctor Who was broadcasted in HD over in the BBC, due to its popularity, but maybe not.
-
but don't much feel like reading through another talkback that Spud took over. Have a good week, folks.
-
So...yeah. Okay then.
-
Think about that one for a moment. You know it be true.
-
Christ, this season has been mediocre. Although props to RTD, if you're going to steal from someone you may as well copy from someone as good as Pinter. Or am I the only one who thought that epidode reeked of pinter-esque writing?
-
Seriously, it wasn't a big deal. Spud- you just used the word "proactive". Shame on you.
-
was actually how fucking irritating the characters were. I wanted them to die. The other problem was that they were never in any danger- seriously. What did the alien posessing thingy actually do? Fuck all apart from repeat them and look a bit wierd. The more I think about it, the more I wish I'd just rewatched the Birthday Party for that sort of thing.
-
Between this and the Spike Lee/Miracle at St. Anna talkback, we have both racism AND homophobia! Woooohooo! You'd think a geek audience would be a little more progressive than that. Oh well.
-
Hey, I enjoyed the episode. Very intense. Very Hitchcockian, like someone said above. And I could care less about RD's "agenda." Like it or not, boys and girls, he was the man who brought Who back, and you owe him everything. I don't see a little bit of patience with his point of view, whether or not you agree with it, as being out of the question.
-
...of all the CGI involved. Phil Collinson said in an interview once that to procude the amount of CGI shots a season of Who requires would take four times as long and be four times as expensive if they had to do it for HD broadcast. So for time and budget reasons, it is filmed in standard def.
Personally I thought this was an excellent episode. Unusual for RTD to pull out something with so many scares in it - the looooong scene where all the passengers gradually turn on the Doctor was excellent, as was Tennant when he became possessed/frozen. Superb actor, brilliant in the role. I even liked that they didn't really explain what the beast was, or give it a name - "She was possessed by the Mimicores!" - it made it all the creepier.
I'd have punched that woman off of Eastenders right in the face. -
very much, far exceeded expectations.
Have got to say though that the 'foreshadowing' throughout the season for the finale has been very overdone and OTT to the point of being negatively distracting. The sledgehammer of continued Rose, Medusa Cascade, Something sad will happen to Donna has basically made Season 4 a 10 episode prelude to the finale, whilst not much has happened in the meantime.
The beauty of the Bad Wolf theme was that is came subtley. Some blink and miss it graffitti here and there, the odd charater reference.
The finale has a lot of weight on its shoulders that it can't possibly live up to. Plus in all the trailers so far Rose/Billies delivery of the lines just seems...bizarre. Either bored or shes turned into a generic action heroine, delivering lines like 'I used to be just like you' and the god-awful cliche 'Its only just begun' whilst toting a feck off gun in a way that belongs in a Shyalaman flick. -
Jun 16, 2008 5:47:23 AM CDT
Maybe the people who disliked it disliked what it taught them ab
by smashing
My brother hated the episode but he is an uneducated, tooth missing, shell suit wearing moron of they total type whom would have thrown someone out the ship to save themselves, a hateful person is what I guess i am describing, I wonder how many of the negative reviewers found themselves facing unhappy truths about themselves whist watching this exciting and entertaining episode? I am sure my brother was just shaken to realise that just because you can justify your behavior in any situation does not mean that others cannot see your real intent or understand where you are really coming from, a wake up call is what RTD wrote, to mean and dumb people, a brave and interesting move given the recent events, rock on the finale.
-
I dropped him and Lost Jarv from my reading weeks ago and discovered a pleasant change to there hate filled, idiotic ranting.Spud has issues with gay people, simple as, in another time this would obviously be seen as her fighting her own sexuality, but its 2008 and we know that some people just like to have people to hate on to make themselves feel better about there own crap lives. Don't even debate them on sexuality issues as they pretend to come around then re-set whilst off line, there tired old haters and reveal way more about themselves that I think they realise, pity em but don't debate them like they had real points, because they do not.
-
'Cos Smashing's history of calling heteros "breeders" and bringing his own brand of hetero-hate is soooooooo much more socially acceptable than "homophobia". Since you're obviously too thick to see the difference between me having an issue with RTD's writing and my supposed hatred of him because he's gay, there's no point trying to debate with you any more. You're either genuinely fucking retarded or so used to hiding behind your minority gay / minority gay-supporting status that you think it excludes you from being a twat when you throw the hate around. You won't find in ANY of my posts the fact that I hate RTD for being a gay man - you'll find PLENTY of examples of me hating RTD for being a shit writer who can't help pushing his own agenda (which happens to be linked to his sexuality) above the need to write a coherent, logical, genre script - simple as. If a radical Muslim keeps trying to push his radical agenda on me, do I hate him for being a Muslim? No. I hate him for being radical. Do I hate RTD's writing because he is gay? No. Do I hate the way he uses his writing to foist his views and opinios on us in a show that in nothing to do with his opinions - effectively getting further and further away from what that programme supposedly is in pursuit of his own worldview? Yes. Of course. I object to ANYONE telling me what I should and shouldn't fucking think. It's called FREEDOM, Smashing - freedom to think what the fuck I want, without having to toe some party line to be seen as in with the "in" crowd - which in the UK currently is anything politically correct. You're a fucking sheep too scared to think for itself, following a herd instinct, too scared to debate RTD's writing just because you might get branded as a gay-hater by the same deluded fucktards you yourself are a part of. You're a fucking fascist, and you hate the fact that your hate campaign against anyone who disagrees with you - for example, calling a critic of RTD's WRITING a homophobe - doesn't work on Jarv and myself.
That's because we can actually think for ourselves, and don't need to be told what to think by fucking nanny state sad sacks like yourself. You want to call me a homophobe? Fucking carry on. I know where I stand on the gay debate, and the reason you have NEVER heard my views on THAT is because all I ever debate is the lack of writing skill that RTD possesses - and how his sexuality informs his writing style. I don't hate his gayness, I hate the way his gayness gets in the way of his scripts. He's too busy trying to validate himself and justify the fact that he is gay (in effect making him seem insecure) rather than remember he's writing for a FUCKING KIDS' SCIENCE FICTION SHOW. Hardly the place for debating sexual politics. Perhaps next you'll tell me 6-year olds ought to get into SEX AND THE CITY to understand how female sexual politics have evolved through the 90s and 00s, you fucking retard.
I have as much right as any of you to express MY opinion on this site and this talkback. You don't like what I write - ANY OF YOU - don't fucking read it. End of. -
i hear you bro, i hear you..
-
Don't listen to the Nay-sayers, this one was genuine creepy, superbly acted, and very very well written.
Morph -
All I did this time was wonder if anyone else noticed the pinter-esque dialogue. I've criticsed his writing, and his agenda, but I couldn't give less of a fuck who he sleeps with. Why do you keep trying to project your bigotry onto me?
-
big fuck off guns in shyamalan flicks? which ones are you watching?
-
While I think you make plenty of fair points in your post, it's the tone you often use, particularly in that last post, tho that's mainly because you are pissed off, that comes across badly.
That and badly derived logic to RTD's "insecurity".
Some of the homsexuality has been poorly shoe horned in, the lack of subtlety being what annoys me more than any perceived inappropriateness (which is why season 1 of Torchwood bugged me as much as any regular Who example).
I really don't see how one use of the word "her" in this episode is an example of anything being pushed in anyone's face tho. -
You can def tell his writing. When he is really for a big arch it will come. I hope they off the runaway bride soon however. They got nothing together on screen.
-
Tarantino's characters wanting to lick Uma's foot. Artists and entertainers will always project who they want to fuck into their works. Look at that Heavy Metal cartoon or any Joss Whedon stuff. RTD happens to fuck men. What's the big deal. He still gave us the Martha ass so we have something to watch during all the verbal gayness.
-
Sorry I meant the stilted delivery of apocalyptic dialogue like 'oh no', 'its only just beginning' or 'MY GOD' (with a jon voight accent in mind), not the guns per se.
That said big feck off guns may have improved Lady In The Water ten fold. -
While I sort of agree with you, I think you miss a point. Because some of it has been needlessly and embarrasingly crammed in, it now besmirches all of it. As someone above said, it's become a joke- spot the gay reference, and makes it very, very hard to put one in without it also being a joke. If he wasn't as subtle as a concrete elephant he wouldn't have panneled it the way he has, but it's too late now. We should be thankful that his ghastly tenure is coming to an end.
-
i think you make some excellent points about freedom to think for ones self and it's importance.(especially as someone who lives in the uk at this time) You are of course free not to answer this question. Is it possible that your writing style is conflicting with some of your agenda in a way that mirrors RTD? I think you make some very valid points and i respectfully ask you if your anger about this one thing is possibly clouding your perception? are you seeing what is on screen now (which i think is handled much better than it was a couple of years back) and adding it to everything you've seen? Or are you seeing episode and noticing a greater artistry in putting forward an "agenda"..? Torchwood got better at it, and on the evidence that Midnight gives, Who is getting better-imho. Are also your consistent expressions of anger getting in the way of effectively communicating your point?
-
Does THOMAS capture all bills, or just the ones that make it out of committee, because the listing I read clearly had him at over a thousand co-sponsorships at over 900 co-authors. In any case, I think his record of accomplishment is pretty excellent. Government ethics, veterans' benefits, crime fighting, education assistance, fighting trafficking of conventional and nuclear weapons, homeland defense initiatives, disaster response... Considering he's been running for President the last year or so, I think he's doing pretty well in terms of legislative accomplishment. Especially as he's a newer Senator who has to wait in line for most chairmanships and whatnot. I hardly think "all we know about him is he can give a good speech" or that "he hasn't done anything of note."
-
I think that's a fair point. I think it's just a tad over reacted to. These last four years have hardly been "ghastly". A hell of a lot better than the decade and a half of fuck all before it (I am ignoring the Paul McGann movie, which is always best!)
Sure I have my frustrations over the series at times (farting, deus ex Machina, lack of science fiction) but by and large most episodes have been at least enjoyable, often very good, sometimes amazing. -
...maybe I'm just totally oblivious, but I had *no idea* that people thought RTD was pushing some kind of "gay agenda" until I looked at this Talkback, and I honestly have no idea what they're using as evidence. Looking back, the only mentions of homosexuality that stand out in my memory (other than the very brief pronoun use in the last one) were in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, which weren't RTD's. I'm not saying they're not there, but I don't think they really stand out if you're not looking for them.
-
Thanks for the reply - far calmer and more rational than my Hulk-out! I just get really pissed at the hetero-bigots like Smashing - for all I know, Smashing has had negative experiences due to being gay or supportive of gay people, and that negative experience has affected him/her (in much the way a person might be attacked by, say, four black muggers, and becomes racist against black people) so that they now automatically hate anyone who doesn't automatically fall in with the conviction of their beliefs. That I get. But Smashing is not only wilfully trolling a lot of the time - I think Jarv hit it when he said "projecting" - that's EXACTLY what Smashing is doing - but is actively trying NOT to see where I'm coming from. It doesn't fit Smashing's right-and-wrong-black-and-white world of absolutes, that a person can NOT be a homophobe but CAN hate the way a person's sexuality affects the way they write, and affects that written end product that we have to endure.
I also think you hit it on the head when you say "are you seeing what is on screen now (which i think is handled much better than it was a couple of years back) and adding it to everything you've seen?". I think I am, very much so. Because the RTD Bingo Card that's floating round on the internet somewhere (I'll TinyURL it if I find it) is funny precisely because RTD DOES write as if he has some kind of Bond movie type list to tick off, and that badly hurts his scripts. One of the boxes is the gay agenda, it's a phrase that kind of stuck (I heard it used in an RTD interview on BBC4 late last year) and it's the one of the 9 boxes on the RTD bingo Card I saw. Why? Because it's the point he most forcefully pushes. DR WHO is primarily a sci-fi program aimed at kids - so it should focus on sci-fi tropes, concepts, themes, with everything else background. RTD's scripts are becoming parodies BECAUSE of his ticklist and agendas - and the show is second to them, which is ridiculous - the man is heading up the biggest SF series UK television has ever produced, and it's become a soapbox for his ideas. There's no room for discussion - you agree with him or you are BAD. Much as Smashing seems to think. I'm open to people discussing why they disagree with me - yourself included - and intelligent discourse is a rare and beautiful thing on these talkbacks. When it gets smart, it really takes off. Smashing CAN be fairly intelligent and explanatory, on occasion, but in general it's a bulldozer rant about how if you don't think gay people should be on EVERY program on EVERY channel, you're a backward homophobe. I liken it to the meat-eater who doesn't want to watch animals being slaughtered. Does that make them a worse person, than the omnivore who WILL watch slaughter? If a person finds watching two men kiss uncomfortable, but has no opposition to men kissing, getting married, living together, or anything else - that person just feels uncomfortable watching men kiss - are they a bad person? worse than an active homophobic bigot who actively campaigns (sometimes violently) to ban gay sex / lifestyles etc altogether? The fact is, many straight people find gay kissing on TV offensive. Many gay people find the fact that some straight people do feel this very offensive. But to just say to everyone who is offended by it "you're a bigot / homophobe / whatever" and steamroller over their objections by forcing gay kissing all over the place - it's inconsiderate to those people, who in a generation or two will be gone anyway. With the pro-gay lobby, everything has to be ALL their way, or not at all. Not very compromising, is it? Where's the room for discussion, for mutual understanding? It's fine for the gay lobby to cry foul when the old biddies who read the Mail complain about men kissing, but it's not fine for the old biddies to cry foul in the first place? WHY THE FUCK NOT?
I do get angry about this, because it's bigots of a different perspective forcing their beliefs on others while bemoaning the fact that it was being done to them first. TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and Smashing is the master of hypocrisy - telling others not to force their beliefs on him, while simultaneously telling us how it SHOULD be and how wrong we are for disagreeing. I'm saying - this dogmatic bullshit neds to stop, and both sides need to fucking talk. Emotions aside. Just fucking share an intelligent discourse.
I think my comment - meant to be a kind of light-hearted "oh, there it is again - how tiresome" remark about the gay reference (which, admirably, is the most brief and obscure I think RTD has ever done, in possibly RTD's finest WHO script) has been blown way out of proportion. I spotted it, thought it was a bit tiresome, and said so. Then the pro-gay lobby fucking exploded. Well, some people don't agree with you - fucking deal with it. I'd have the Doctor be a lot more placatory about this stuff. If you want to be fair, have a gay activist say something heterophobic, and have the Doctor say something like "Hey, you didn't like it when the boot was on the other foot," just to redress the balance. I don't see RTD doing anything THAT radical any time soon.
Balance. The Spud likes balance.
Steve T - I'm right with you - it's the cumulative effect that pisses me off, the fact that when a gay character is shoehorned in obviously for no reason than to have a gay character, you can just look and say "Ooh an RTD script strikes again!". It's parodying itself, and it's shite. The MIDNIGHT reference was very slight, but obvious, and served no real purpose but to show RTD at his ticklisting again. It's just lazy storytelling, soapbox first, Who mythos second. I just think it's shit is all.
INWOsuxRED: Do I REALLY have that much power over your life? One look at my name can make you avoid a WHOLE TALKBACK?
Fuck. Do the Democrats still need a frontrunner? Spud for President! -
Not great, but good. It's just too bad that it didn't really have an ending, just a quick and predictable "running time is up" cop out. Other than that though, definitely one of RTD's better efforts.
-
...in this day and age are the redneck hillbillies of the internet. Learn how to use torrents for fuck sakes. It's not that hard to figure out, they're usually broadcast quality and playable in fullscreen without any discernable loss of quality, rather than the pixelated over compressed tiny sized crapness you get on the technology backwater shithole that is youtube, and you'll be much happier in the long run. Trust me, I know what I'm doing...
-
I didn't dislike this episode because of the throw-away lesbian line; I hated the episode because it was clear once the *Lost* horn section started blowing that RTD was going to try to equal a Moffat episode by stealing from *Lost*. And that is what he did. To stretch out a Ben Linus trick for over 30 minutes of the episode and have the villain not do a damn thing was lame. It wasn't even scary other than the actress's makeup. Face it, RTD is a hack. Moffat could be gayer than Richard Simmons or Sigfreid & Roy (I or II) in his real life - which he's not, he's straight but I digress - but that wouldn't change his quality of writing one bit. FFS, some of the best writers on American tv are gay, but you don't see them trying to make it the central theme of their projects... like say "Nip/Tuck". And as for that chap's other works, RTD doesn't have it in him to write a film like *Running with Scissors*. So there.
-
But you did still use the word "proactive".
-
Bigots don't bother me. To meet their anger with more anger just leads to escalation in my experience. I don't have to believe any ideas that are forced on me, so since i don't have to believe them, no beliefs CAN be forced on me.. I get to choose. That i hope is the one expression of freedom no one will learn to take away. --- have to go live my l for a few hours x
-
have to go live my life for a few hours x
-
http://tinyurl.com/4ptod5
Contains such gems as
Events conveyed via TV/News bulletin
Reference to current TV trend
Celebrity cameo
Doctor mopes for Billie Piper
etc... -
yeah it hit 3 this week!
-
i thought it was ok. very x files / global frequency like. not outstanding. but interesting enough as a pilot. fox must be fucked off with it being out as a torrent, especially with their caviler attitude to new shows
-
Cheers for that link!
Now combine it with a drinking game, and you'll be alcoholic by the end of season four... ;p -
Apologies for the "proactive" thing. I reverted to my liberalist tendencies then, and ended up sounding like Hazel Blears. Bleeurrgh.
-
I'm on dial up, until I chose another high speed provider. So, there's no quick torrenting here, and certainly no youtube. hehe I'll have my friend download it for me today. Either way, someone mentioned that the current ep is like last season's Gridlock. Oh good God. :-( While GL was no Love and Monsters, it was pretty much a sub par crap-fest except for the two Tennant talks about Gallifrey moments. Some are also saying the current ep is great. I'd like to believe that, but they always have to foist filler upon us just before the big ending. Early prediction, this ep will fall not quite as low as Love and Monsters, or Partners in Crime. And, perhaps not as bad as Fear Her. I'm more worried about Russell(if he's writing them) screwing up stories with Daleks and Davros. Maybe this ep allowed him to get everything off his chest, before getting into signficant season finales. Then again, I could be totally wrong because I haven't seen it. I'd be the first to say that some of Russell's ep's were good. TOoth and Claw, the 1st season two-part finale, the 2nd season two-part finale, and a couple of others.
-
This wasn't much like Gridlock in my opinion. This was a taught little one act play. Basically a reworking the classic Twilight Zone THE MONSTERS ARE DUE ON MAPLE STREET. WHO needs more out of the formula box episodes like this one, one of RTD's better efforts all around.
Oh, and don't fool yourself into believing the LOVE AND MONSTERS was simply sub-par. It was far and away the lowest point in the 45-year history of the program. Hands down. -
I thought that episode was actually really good until the Godawful ending. I wouldn't say it was the worst thing in all of Doctor Who history. Heck, I probably preferred it to the Daleks in New York... There was another interesting concept ruined by a really awful main villain, in my opinion.
-
...Midnight was vastly superior to Gridlock.
-
Love and Monsters to Seven To Midnight. *runs away*
-
I mean, Love and Monsters was aimed at 8 year olds and Blue Peter winners and people who think that fat guy is funny. So there's 3 small audience groups that might have liked it.
But Fear Her? A disembodied pencil squiggle which eats cats, and the Olympics are "love, just ... love"
Who the fuck was THAT aimed at? Pencil manufacturers? -
Stan Winston died yesterday. That moves me more than any episode of Doctor Who ever will. What an absolute, utter loss to the movie-making magic of SFX. He was one of the true greats...
-
What a loss. Totally agree, McSpud. And, I totally get some of your opinions about certain controversial Who topics. As for the "sub-par" comment, that was intended for Gridlock, not L&M. You're correct when you say that L&M was probably the lowest point. The episode of Doctor Who with the thinly-veiled blow job joke. Just what you'd expect from Doctor Who. Almost as good as the time they alluded to Tegan and Nyssa 69-ing in Arc of Infinity. hehe I'm a South Park fan, and the b.j. joke was totally out of place in a Doc Who episode. But, L&M has been debated to death already. hehe The question is...was it as bad as the William Hartnell "Gunfighters" episode? hehe
-
I gotta say, man....I don't necessarily disagree with you about the agenda/writing thing (though I would've toned down the language a bit), but I just found myself scrolling through the talk back and couldn't help but laughing in disbeleif that each of your postings gets longer, and longer, and longer....You must have really strong fingers!
-
I'm the fastest keypadslinger in town, baby!
-
I almost don't want to post this now that you're finally ready to let go and talk about Winston, but I'm afraid it can't be helped.1. Stop saying "heterophobe": You sound completely ridiculous every time you use it. Neither RTD or the people in this talkback are anti-, fearful of, or outright hateful towards heterosexuals. To borrow Inigo Montoya's other famous line: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
While we're on the subject of -phobes though, I'm sure you'll be happy to know I don't think you're necessarily a homophobe at all. I'd say you've got more of a "homophobia lite" thing going on, by which I mean you're the "I don't care if it exists so long as I never have to see, hear or think about it" type of guy. Rhetorical question: When you're talking about "a person [who] finds watching two men kiss uncomfortable, but has no opposition to men kissing, getting married, living together, or anything else," that's you, isn't it, Spud? Yeah, I figured.
2. Stop carrying on about the "gay agenda": "...[A] FUCKING KIDS' SCIENCE FICTION SHOW. Hardly the place for debating sexual politics." When has this show *ever* debated sexual politics? How can you honestly say that? A few pronouns have been switched. Captain Jack is a huge space slut swaggering through the cosmos banging anything that moves, male, female and variations thereupon. In other words, James T. Kirk gone to 11. Shakespeare made a cheeky remark about flirting. A famous playwright in 15th century London might have had eyes for both men and women. Oh the shock of it all. This is hardly what one would call a "soapbox." You act as though you're watching an intergalactic version of Will & Grace when that is simply not the case. Refresh my memory-- didn't people used to bitch about RTD creating mini-love affairs between the Doctor and his attractive, young...wait for it...*female* companions? Yet now he's planting the seeds of wholesale heterosexual downfall in the minds of a nation each time he picks up a pen. It seems the man can't win. What about in the first series when the Doctor was making time with the living tree? Or Jack hitting on the vaguely praying mantis-ish chick in Utopia? Where's the outrage over Davies' clear woodland and insectoid agendas? Do you also secretly believe he had Murray Gold add some beats to the theme because it makes it slightly more danceable, and we all know what types like to dance now don't we, sideways glance wink wink nudge nudge? Honestly, I'm of half a mind to go through all of these past four seasons looking for the vast amount of overt, in your face, 'ello guv'na fancy a shag gay references just to count them up once and for all. My guess is that they're going to be far fewer than some folks would like to believe.
3. Stop watching the show if RTD's writing makes you so mouth-frothingly angry: It clearly does and the tirades you've gone off on are proof enough. Here's an idea that might keep that one vein from bulging out of your skull. Since you've already said not to read your posts if they're such a bother, why not follow your own sage advice? You don't like RTD and his checklist? Okay. Don't watch the rest of this series or anything else Who related until Moffat takes over. Better yet, since RTD is responsible for reviving the franchise in the first place and is the reason you're able to watch it at all, perhaps you should quit the new series altogether as it's always going to have the shadow of his vast homo-wing conspiracy lurking over it.
To sum up: You've made your point. You don't hate RTD for being gay, you just hate it when he puts gay people in a show you're watching without there being a very, very, VERY specific reason for them to be there. We get it. Move on.
One more thing, and this isn't directed solely at you: Is Doctor Who honestly seen as nothing more than a kids' show in the UK? I've seen it referred to as such in other reviews and talkbacks and it's always puzzled me. It's certainly not that way in the US. Not only does Sci-Fi air it at 9 PM on the coasts, it's the lead in to Battlestar Galactica. To me Doctor Who is on par with Star Trek. It's a sci-fi show. Kids might watch but it's not being written for them. -
I think that's the better way of how it's generally perceived in the UK
-
...I don't really understand the "why shove it in people's face?" thing. I mean, when the Doctor kissed Martha, was that shoving a straight agenda in people's face? Since when does being in the majority mean you never-ever-ever have to be exposed to the minority? If black people make the white population "feel uncomfortable", should we avoid black characters on TV? Should we avoid interracial relationships? I mean, plenty of people are still old and racist. Should we avoid having, say, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist characters so as not to offend a Christian majority? I just don't get it. And, trust me, I'm not a guy who enjoys watching men make out. But why the heck should me finding that unattractive mean it should be banished from the airwaves?
-
I agree that Love and Monsters (maybe not intentionally) was aimed at 8-year olds...which even more ironic that the pay off for the 44 minutes of painful television that preceded was a blow job joke. I can ACCEPT that some people liked this episode, but it was as unwatchable as anything I've watched in my 23 years of watching the show...
Of course, I also think that Dalek Invasion of Earth was utterly awful considering it as one of the classic era Dalek stories. Daleks in Manhatten, though sub par to say the least, looks like award winning television compared to that. -
a good episode, especially for the Hartnell era. That's one I still have yet to purchase on dvd, and it's been many moons since I've seen the old vhs recording(my friend had) from a PBS station. Good, bad, or mediocre, I'll take Dalek Invasion of Earth over L&M, Gridlock, Fear Her, Partners in "Adipose" Crime, and the one where Eccleston had a heart to heart dinner with the Slitheen MP.
-
RTD trying to throw a Domo-kun knock-off in. The dialogue between the Doctor and Donna was the saving grace of that episode. The rest of it was sonic screw-wanking and me wondering why they never simply killed the reporter instead of tying her up again. I liked "Love and Monsters" as a story about some of the ways the Doctor can touch people's lives, but I admit it's not that great. "Fear Her" was all right until the end when the announcer is going on about the flame being love and the human spirit or whatever the fuck. Bleah. The only things I remember about "Gridlock" are kitten babies and the Face of Boe at the end, but I'm pretty sure I still liked it more than "The Lazarus Experiment."
-
Tell us more!
-
Jun 17, 2008 5:47:37 AM CDT
I was making a joke Spud as you well know and have been told lik
by smashing
If you choose to ignore that fact and instead flame on you again prove your a cockney wanker. Anyone without scales on there eyes would have gotten that, or anyone whose vision was not obscured by the giant shoulder chip they seem fried too. As usual your reactions Spud reveal an insecure and angry man, go blow it to someone who don't see right through you, like I said after 4 years of providing you with answers to your homophobic drivel and watching you ignore or decide you know better I am finished debating with you, think what you will but you are a fool in my opinion. You write reviews of sci-fi on a site you also use as your own political platform, that IMO should be a no-no. What your basically saying is you get to constantly demean and flame gay people but learning better is not interesting to you, indeed you seem more interested in spreading hate and pretending to be hard done too, I may not want to read your ridiculous spew on gay people but when week after week for over 4 years you drop the same low IQ bomb in here it is hard to ignore, why don't you try educating yourself a little instead?
-
Sadly it will make not a jot of difference as Spud is not interested in debate, he is interested in running down anyone who disagrees with him and demeaning them, just look at his replies to me, they are so bitchy he could almost be a woman, he attacks perceived weaknesses and makes judgements based on hos own skewed perceptions yet feels confident enough to proclaim he knows his opponents, I have never once responded to telling him I know him better than he himself does yet he feels he can do that to me weekly, I wonder why he is so angry towards gay people in general? Like you have said he has made his point, he made it in 2003 and I got it then, we all did, he keeps remaking it as he wants to condition others to his way of thinking, its how uneducated, working class straight people seem to operate "repeat lie until it is believed", its sad and a shame as any interesting point he has ( he did have one back in 2003 I seem to recall) gets lost amongst his embarrassing hate speeches, and make no mistake anyone who writes as much or as often as he does on a subject has an agenda and aint it interesting that that is what he accuses queers of having each week when it would appear that he himself has one. I would not be at all surprised to learn he supported the BNP.
-
What's being a Cockney got to do with anything? Are you prejudiced against Londoners, whilst railing against someone else for being homophonic? Fuck yourself.
-
You are one despicable bigoted shit. Look at that post- sexist, classist, small minded, and condescending. And by the way, your post that he reacted angrily to wasn't a joke. Don't try and pretend it was, at least stand by your words.
-
as I said, I missed the reference everyone is upset by. I thought it was a mediocre pinter rip off. But this whole series has been pretty mediocre.
-
in ascending order of crapness: 5)Runaway Bride- where to begin with it. Awful shite, dreadful performance from Tate- great Monster wasted and on and on and on 4)Daleks take manhatten- I fucking HATE squidward dalek. Let alone Pigmen.3)Unicorn and The wasp. My contempt for this episode knows no bounds. Not funny, not scary, trite, irritating, badly acted rubbish. Hated it. 2) Fear Her- this has already been hashed to death. But how awful can one episode be. 1)Love and Monsters. And episode of Dr Who without the Dr. A monster designed by a 9 year old. Peter Kay as fat man. And a blow job joke to finish. Truly the worst episode so far. My list changes according to my mood, with 3-5 dropping in and out. But no episodes have been anywhere near as bad as Fear Her and Love And Monsters.Best List- is much easier but much less fun.
-
The references was a very csmall one, which is why I gave it just one line in my review - kind of like keeping score, "EPISODE 10 - RTD GAY AGENDA COUNT:1." It honestly doesn't bother me as much as people think - it's just as if I'm watching TRANSFORMERS (INO) and I see Shite LeBeef on the corner of that building with the endless engergy cube, and the camre spins around him slowly with the sky as the backdrop, and I go, "Oh - the Michael Bay signature shot." Annoying, but not life-changingly so. And it's kind of fun to keep up on the RTD Bingo Card count (see V'Shael's link - made me laugh!) in his eps. I don't actually expect anything great about RTD's SF scripts these days (rewatching SECOND COMING last week just highlighted for me how clunky the script is, though it's a great idea) so I was VERY surprised at how good I thought the episode was. Sure, it's completely ripped off Pinter, though I think more people might recognise itas a rip-off of "Lifeboat" or a number of Trek bottle episodes. But it was competent, Lesley Sharp was quite scary(ier!) than most S4 monsters, and the paranoia and pack mentality rang true to me. I mean, I live very close to a football stadium, so I see that shit most weekends.
But then comes the flame war (which I expect whenever I post anything) and since there's no sarcasm font, an innocuous "oh, there's RTD's gay reference for this week, oh that boy!" suddenly becomes like Spud's attack on the gay community, and EVERYONE ELSE froths at the mouth, while I sit here, mouth agape, at how hateful people can be about someone who just generally hates RTD's WRITING, NOT his sexuality. I mean, about the men kissing thing - yeah, I feel uncomfortable watching it, sure. I also think the Heinz New York Deli advert doing the rounds on ITV in the UK right now is very funny. And it involves male kissing. I think BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is one of the most heartbreaking, gut-wrenching love stories EVER, and cannot believe how well made it is. But some of the morons who flame on me cannot get through their thick heads that just because I am not gay, and not keen on watching men kiss, that doesn't mean I don't want to see it onscreen. I don't see how you could make Brokeback WITHOUT men kissing, it's so fucking integral to the plot, but it doesn't stop me from rating that as one of the best love stories I've ever seen. No doubt Kurutteru and Smashing will make out that I'm just saying this to appear less homophobic, and I couldn't give less of a shit what they think, but it does piss me off that I'm trying to convey the complexities of like/dislike in a world where normal straight reactions to gay kissing are always taken to make those who find it uncomfortable to be on the same level as fucking Nazis or something. So fucking what if I find it uncomfortable? I still watch in shows where it's part of the plot. I find the thought of watching animals being slaughtered fairly distressing, but I'd chow down on a Smashing sandwich come the inevitable zombie apocalypse, and it doesn't stop me watching THE F WORD for a laugh (and some new deleted expletives).
I do love that Smashing thinks I'm uneducated, though, You don't get given an Assisted Places scholarship to a top private school after beating over 1000 applicants for one of 6 spots if you're thick. Though this was back before the Bliar decided to nix scholarships for working-class kids, to keep the peons in their place. Thank fuck he's out.
Kurutteru - no, I pretty much hated the Doctor kissing the girls too - I've said before that I think the Doctor would be better as an asexual being. He's already a Time Lord - a race so snobby and indolent Smashing could be one of them (>;D) - but after 900 years you'd think he's fucked everything he'd want to fuck. Now he's in it for the adventure of travelling all places, all times. RTD wants the Doctor to be one of these fuckos you see on THE HILLS - a good looking, vacant twat who remains the poster boy for SF-obsessed girls and gay boys all over the country. For a man who supposedly LOVED old Who, he can't get away from it and its mythology fast enough. Why else would he kill off all the Time Lords in a time War previous to season 1? Clean slate. And I honestly think if RTD had full carte blanche, what we now know as Jack Harkness would have been RTD's Dr Who, God fucking save us.
If you don't want to stick to what you supposedly loved about a show - why make it? BSG shows you can revamp an old format and keep what made it great (in BSG's case, that fantastic "last humans left alive" concept).
Smashing - How come you get to use the word "queers" and get away with it? Is that like where a black person can call another black person "nigger" and it's fine, until a non-black person says it? Is it at that same level of nauseating fucking hypsocrisy? What a crock of shit.
Jarv - Always amazed me how opposite we are on our likes/dislikes re new Who episodes. I agree with RUNAWAY BRIDE (only the taxi sequence was awesome), MANHATTAN (great concept, great Hooverville - fucking awful hybrid - why did no-one ask anyone why the Squidward Dalek has cocks hanging off his head?!?), UNICORN I loved (lousy ending though), FEAR HER (if they love filler that much, why not fucking drop this and make a 12 episode seasons?!?!? Would've been more money for the finale!) was shite, and I actually really enjoyed L&M - mainly for Marc Warren who was great, and Peter Kay, who was Peter Kay. The mosnter was gross eough, and only the blow-job gag (come ON, RTD! What the FUCK was THAT doing in a kids/family show? FUCK!) was out of place. I do see why everyone hated it, though I thought of it like Who's version of JOSE CHUNG'S 'FROM OUTER SPACE'.
I did really like this week's ep though. And we never found out what the entity was! Could it have been The Beast?!?!? -
Isn't that just a list of the Moffat episodes, in various orders? (Having said that, I might take Family of Blood or the 2nd season finale episodes over Moffat's most recent two-parter, but whatever. Oh, also Father's Day. Also the Impossible Panet. Well, whatever.) As for worst, in no particular order:Fear HerNew EarthGridlockDalek's In ManhattanThe Idiot's LanternI'd put Love and Mosnters on there, except I really, really like the first two-thirds of it. It's a really great idea, until the end is just so flipping awful. Also, I find it a little odd that I don't have anything from Series 4 on there, as it's been my least favorite so far, but I think that's due to lack of stand-out episodes rather than any particular episode being really bad.
-
I know what I mean by "Heterophobe", by the way. A person who is either gay or sympathetic to the gay community's concerns (whether for real or for effect, in order to gain approval in this PC-obsessed world), who hates straight peple who voice any opinion that in any way deviates from the party line, which is that there is no room for any disapproval or discomfort in relation to ANYTHING that anyone gay or sympathetic-to-gay-issues does or says. So that if RTD puts a blow job in a kids show, and the heterosexual Spud voices disapproval at this, this makes Spud a homophobe in the eyes of a heterophobe, because nothing a gay person does can possibly wrong in the eyes of a heterophobe.
A hell of a lot of people in the Catholic Church who feel sick at the thought of seeing another priest might disagree that gay people CANNOT do anything wrong. But in the eyes of hypcrites like Smashing, we're still haters. Unlike Smashing, I don't think that RTD's sexuality precludes my criticising his writing, and the way his sexuality informs his writing. But to a heterophobe, that makes me a hater.
Clear? That's my interpretation of a heterophobe.
"Why are you smiling?"
"Because I know something you don't know." ;D -
Not a BNP voter - voted Lib Dem in the Locals this year just for a change.
And don't be dissing the Cockneys! I'm a Midlander, but apart from the fact that all the beer in London is shit, I love the place and its people. Not that it's easy to find a Cockney any more in the capital, though, unless you head out to the suburbs :D -
...A top-five list of episodes Moffat *didn't* write would be interesting. So I'll reiterate:Family of Blood 2-parterArmy of Ghosts 2-parterFather's DayThe Impossible Planet 2-parterDalek
-
So I DIDN'T imagine the LOST rip-offs in the score to Midnight! Made me and Mrs-Spud-to-be lookat each other and go, "Aw HELL no, he di'nt, did he?". Yep, he did. Had the same reaction at the beginning of LAST OF THE TIME LORDS. "One year later? Didn't BSG just...? Aw HELL no, he di'nt, did he?"
It's not just me - RTD really HAS run out of original ideas! -
Swap the ARMY OF GHOSTS two-parter for THE UNQUIET DEAD and I utterly and completely agree with you on the non-Moffat Top Five WHO eps. Good call, Padawan!
-
Unquiet Dead *was* pretty awesome. But I've been waiting like 20 years to see the Daleks fight the Cybermen, god damn it. ;)
-
Agreed! I always find myself thinking "why do they have to do this so SMALL SCALE?" whenever I see something like DOOMSDAY. I also think all the back-and-forth insults were a bit silly - "This is not war, this is pest control!" - but that can go. Badass Mickey with a big gun! (Oh, and watch KIDULTHOOD - there IS a badass there in Noel Clarke, shame we never got to see him in Who.) But yeah, DOOMSDAY was fun (did feel like an extended TORCHWOOD ad, though I think Yvonne would have been FAR better than Jack Harkness is TW) and I liked the idea of the Void, and that ending on the beach is superb.
So let's hope the Beeb eventually do a Who theatrical release, with all the scale and respect it deserves... TIME WAAAAAAR!!! -
I'm a sucker for that kinda shit. The "You'd destroy a million Cyberman with four Daleks?" "No, we would destroy a million Cybermen with one Dalek." line killed me. But, yeah, it *was* nice to finally see Mickey kick some ass after being both Rose and the Doctor's bitch for so long. And a really *good* Who movie would be painfully awesome. Get Moffat on that sucker and bring back Eccleston for a Time War movie and I will cry.
-
Only one problem, I have enjoyed all 4 seasons of Who plus the xmas specials, too. And, I already know I'm going to enjoy the 3 part finale. I know it sounds like I'm being funny, but, I'm not. I don't look as hard at the episodes as the rest of you, I guess, I don't know. I did mention in an earlier post that I didn't enjoy the first 2 1/2 years of Jon Pertwee's Doctor, but that was because he didn't have the use of the TARDIS, just how I feel. Keep in mind, I did watch them and liked them, just not enjoy them as much as the rest. spud mcspud, my favorite part of "The Runaway Bride" was the taxi chase, also. Hopefully, when Torchwood takes Doctor Who's time slot next year, the changes to the show will be for the better and I hope there will be more than 5 episodes. Oh, and, I also hope The Sarah Jane Adventures will be back, hey, I liked it, crazy me.
-
A Doctor Who - Time War movie with Eccleston starring in it would be great!!!!! Maybe, Eccleston and McGann? We can only hope and pray to the movie god to make it so.
-
Are you seriously telling me that when I called straight people breede4rs I was not joking?, if so you just moved from mostly useless into completely fucking inept, of course I was joking, unlike you I do not have issues with large groups of people, we gay people have taken it on the chin in terms of demeaning nicknames from you breeders for years, we finally come up with a wee name for you all and you go nuclear over it, learn to laugh at yourself dude, I sure am.
Silly Steve Rodgers, I called Spud a cockney wanker to highlight how stupid name calling is online, I have no idea where the fat oaf is from and felt it was as appropriate as him calling me self loathing, really if you guys are just gonna react like little ladies, screaming and crying without thinking about others words then its a perfect analogy for why your opinions about TV are wack, you ain't thinking enough and simply looking to take your bad mood out on others, shame. Also grow up and learn to be insulted without feeling like it justifies your hate, is so last century and probably why nature is breeding people like you out and replacing them with people like me, (another joke ladies calm down) -
One does not write endless mini essays on how your not really a bigot and just have issues with gay writing, as you have proved for over 4 year, every week, ignoring counter points and reverting to your default gay flame mode unless your trying to convince yourself and others of what is simply not true, your a hate monger, its simple really, occam's razor and all that, whats more likely you are simply a hate spreader or you and you alone can see how Doctor Who is being used to gay up our youth, I mean come the fuck on, most kids are Bi nowadays anyway so you lost, accept it and bend over.
-
One does not write endless mini essays on how your not really a bigot and just have issues with gay writing, as you have proved for over 4 year, every week, ignoring counter points and reverting to your default gay flame mode unless your trying to convince yourself and others of what is simply not true, your a hate monger, its simple really, occam's razor and all that, whats more likely you are simply a hate spreader or you and you alone can see how Doctor Who is being used to gay up our youth, I mean come the fuck on, most kids are Bi nowadays anyway so you lost, accept it and bend over.
-
Thought not, now if your saying why is the word no longer considered usable ion civilised society, its simple, its because it is offensive and demeaning, I use it to take away its power over me, why do you want to? Have you seen Ferris Bueller's Day Off?, you remind me of Jeannie, angry at the world over the choices she makes and hate filled over Ferris getting away with things she herself also gets away with, just blinkered by her hate, go kick Ed Rooney's face in and get off with Charlie Sheen and have a fucking nose job or something.
-
So the next time some white kid gets stabbed by a black kid for using a racist term to describe him, maybe the white kid should tell the black kid that he was only using the word to take the power away from it, or maybe he was just joking. And you know what? That example works just as well no matter what nationalities / ethnicities you swap the examples for.
And as for "most kids are Bi nowadays anyway so you lost, accept it and bend over" - now I'm completely lost. Is this some kind of conflict in your warpmed little mind - some kind of gays vs straights war I'm not privy to? Or is it another shining example of that famed Smashing "humour" I hear so much about? You know, when you say something that offends me, then I tell you why, and you tell me, oh it was all a joke!
Well... disgreard everything I write from now on, Smashing - it was all just a joke, Entirely at your expense, of course. -
"Have you seen Ferris Bueller's Day Off?, you remind me of Jeannie, angry at the world over the choices she makes and hate filled over Ferris getting away with things she herself also gets away with, just blinkered by her hate, go kick Ed Rooney's face in and get off with Charlie Sheen and have a fucking nose job or something."
Have you seen Martin Lawrence Live at Runteldat?* You remind me of Martin, , angry at the world over the opinions of others you consider to be beneath you because their beliefs are different, and hate filled over those people saying things you yourself also say to them, just blinkered by your hate, go slag off a bunch of people whose opinions are no less valid or meriticious than yours and make a movie with Michael Bay and Will Smith and have a fucking drug-fuelled breakdown in the middle of a freeway or something.
*He's someone else who claims to have no problems with a certain section of society (white people for him, 'homophobes' for you) yet spends all his time blaming the ills of the world he lives in on them. Yet still I watch his movies. And enjoy them. Go figure. -
"Also grow up and learn to be insulted without feeling like it justifies your hate, is so last century and probably why nature is breeding people like you out and replacing them with people like me, (another joke ladies calm down)".
Oh, that's just fucking HYSTERICAL coming from a heterohphobic bigot like yourself.
As for the nature breeding out thing, go take a look at this. Seems some sceintists really DO want to know why gay people are gay and straight people are straight - hey, maybe you can call THEM "bigots" and "homophobes" too!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/ 20080617/tod-uk-br ain-gay-b7e5c6f.html -
What the fuck is wrong with you? If I posted something with the following: "bitchy he could almost be a woman" "its how uneducated, working class straight people seem to operate""you drop the same low IQ bomb in here it is hard to ignore, why don't you try educating yourself a little instead" Then you'd call me a small minded, sexist, bigoted, classist, condescending shit. Hypocrite. Or was that some of that legendary Smashing "humour" that's rarer than Unicorn shit? And how many times do I have to say that I don't think that episode was perpetuating some gay agenda? At least give credit where it's due. I do.
-
If you look at the episodes I hated- not one of them is a "gay agenda" episode.
-
Let me (and everyone else)know when we are OFF the gay agenda. Oh, and, I hope everyone enjoys the last 3 episodes of the season (series), I already know I will. Sorry, I had to get that in.
-
If you see the finale, and absolutely HATE it, would you actually admit it on this site? Because either you are the nicest person who ever lived, who you ARE RTD, or you just choose not to criticise ANYTHING about the new Doctor Who. You can't tell me there's NOTHING wrong with EVERY episode in Season 4? Seriously?
Not being nasty - please take that at least. I'm just curious. NO-ONE can be as nice as that ALL THE TIME? Or are you in fact Amy Adams as in ENCHANTED?!? ;D -
a. the nicest person who ever lived. b. RTD and c. Amy Adams as in ENCHANTED. First, I LOVE Star Trek, thought TNG was great, DS9 was also great, but, wished they would get out there and push, VOY was very good, but, Enterprise, oh god, I HATED that they went backwards, I wanted the spin-offs to go forward, I watched very few episodes. As for Doctor Who, I have mentioned in earlier posts that I didn't like the first 2 1/2 years of Jon Pretwee's Doctor Who because he didn't have the use of the TARDIS, I watched, but, didn't like. Mr Mcspud, it's not that I'm being too nice, I'm just enjoying the return of Doctor Who that much, think that the 2 actors who took over as the Doctor were and are just great(I love the way Tennant is playing him.) and, I am so glad to see the sonic screwdriver back, I want him to whip that thing out from the moment the show starts 'til the moment the show ends. Ok, if you really want me to pick a weak episode, I'll pick................. Boomtown!!!! Ok, I did it!!!! Oh, on if I hated the finale, would I admit it here? Yes, I would, but, I do you mean by hate? We know Donna will die, I like the character, so, I'll hate that, does that count? (Just joking, I know that doesn't count, I know what you mean.) I am 99.99% sure I will LOVE it!!!!
-
Spud you and Lost Jenny are so off topic debate becomes meaningless, you avoided all the points I made and (boringly and predictably) attacked the jokes that flew past you. I feel all I need to say has been said, try and blacken my name repeatedly if it makes you feel better but bear in mind that people will make there own minds up anyway, despite the hate you shovel and gussy up to make it look semi-respectable, when in reality its all gutter level stirring. If it makes you feel better to say I hate straight people then have at, its you it makes look foolish as for me to hate a large percentage of my planet would be counter intuitive and pointless, indeed random hate seems more your bag than mine baby. Oh I forgot you don't hate gay people, only seeing them portrayed in a positive light, what a champ of the people you are.
-
Jun 19, 2008 4:45:07 AM CDT
Spud are you suggesting its the victims fault if he is attacked?
by smashing
I would see it as the knife wielders issue not the name callers, if that's how you see the world then no wonder your kids kill each other and the world is a fucking mess, violence blame is laid at the feet of the attacker, not the attacked, no matter what alleged provocation there is, name calling is no excuse for stabbing anyone.
-
Every week there is some fucktard who demeans me due to the genetic circumstance of my birth, I have to stand against that as to do otherwise would mean I did not respect myself, until the haters fall silent the counter points will continue, I'm sorry if people find it annoying or off topic but it has to be done and why should anyone accept random hate towards any group just because some on the way out hetero old school tool feels annoyed at the ever changing world?
-
Jun 19, 2008 4:52:56 AM CDT
Lost Jenny its called judging you by your own low standards.
by smashing
I take the stupid and oft rude judgements you make about me and my unchangeable sexuality and turn them 180 back at you, look at how you stamp your feet and dislike it, if you canny take it wee man then don't dish it, simple eh.
-
I never judge your sexuality- it's none of my concern. I don't care. What I do care about is your repellent hypocrisy. Are you too stupid to get the point? Just to be nice, I'll spell it out for you. If I posted, as is your wont, prejudiced moronic posts attacking the same posters week after week you would climb on your high horse and proclaim me to be a narrow minded, bigoted shit. Try some humility. It may work for you. And if you look at this thread my comments have been "pinter-esque dialogue", "didn't notice the gay thing", then I responded to steve, then I put up a "worst list" that didn't have one "gay agenda" episode, then I responded to you pointing out your hypocrisy. You started on me, and haven't got the courtesy/ smarts to read what I actually posted.
-
or I would have responded. All you have done is shrilly post your usual bigoted crap. However, I disagree with your initial post. I neither liked or disliked this episode. It didn't do a lot for me either way, and in all honesty it isn't because of what I saw/ didn't see in the characters. I liked the pinter dialogue, I liked the performance from whatshername, and I liked the beginning. I disliked the other characters for effectively being the same character and I thought the end was very flat. I give it a 3 out of 5- totally mediocre (but a million times better than the Unicorn and The Wasp)
-
Can you just piss off and have a row somewhere else? You prove nothing except your own ridiculous capacity to pick fights with people over absolute fuck all. You are boring. Bore off.
-
The stabbing exapmle was to call attention to the ridiculous hypocrisy of you claiming you are taking back the power of the word "queer" by using it to describe yourself or others who are gay, yet if I were to stoop so low as to call a gay person a "queer" I would be a hatemonger and a bigot for doing so. The argument is EXACTLY the same as saying a black person can call another black person "nigger" but if a white person uses the same word, it is racist and insulting. This is a ridiculous, dangerous double standard hypocrisy, and the fact that you use it means you think that being part of a minority group gives you immunity from accusation when YOU start using such words. YOU ARE A FUCKING HYPOCRITE. If you find the word "queer" offensive coming from a straight man, why the fuck is it acceptable from someone just because they are gay? FUCKING HYPOCRITE.
As for the "Every week there is some fucktard who demeans me due to the genetic circumstance of my birth" thing, I don't demean YOU at all - I just think that you use your sexuality as a minorty PC shield to hide behind and justify your name-calling on those who are straight. Point out ONE FUCKING POST from me where I insult you with a derogatory gay insult. Just fucking one. Good luck with that. My argument is that RTD's sexuality affects his writing and makes it shit. It's a subjective opinion at best, and one anyone is free to disagree with. It's the thick bastards like you who reply with no real points to back them up except their irrational hatred of non-gay people that really piss me off. You disagree with me re RTD's writing? Fine. Don't make a big deal out of the fact that you're gay. The only thing about you being gay that irks me is the way you use your sexuality to justify your hatred of non-gay people - and then spout bollocks about reclaiming the power of the word "queer". Come ON! You just want to justify being able to insult non-gay people. YOUR SEXUALITY DOES NOT JUSTIFY NOR EXCUSE YOUR HATE.
And as for "try and blacken my name repeatedly if it makes you feel better but bear in mind that people will make there own minds up anyway, despite the hate you shovel and gussy up to make it look semi-respectable, when in reality its all gutter level stirring" and "random hate seems more your bag than mine baby", there's the further quote from you: "just because some on the way out hetero old school tool feels annoyed" which just proves your own previous point totally fucking redundant.
By God, you really DON'T get it, do you? Back your shit up with facts and intelligent recourse, or shut the fuck up. This is beyond fucking tiresome at this point.
-
Jun 19, 2008 7:02:59 PM CDT
I don't really see how treating gay people as if they
by crichtonastronut
exist counts as an agenda. That's like saying treating the Earth as if it were round and circled the sun is pushing an agenda. The Earth is round. Gay people exist, and probably will in the future too. Don't like it, well sorry but they still exist and it's still round. I don't always like cell phones or ring tones, but I don't get bothered when people put them on a show because--you know what?--they exist they're part of the world me and the writer live in. I see them I hear seeing them and hearing them on tv just kind of makes sense. If all gay people were saints on who and all heterosexuals were bastards then I'd say yeah, there's some heavy handed shit goin on here, but I haven't seen that on Who. It does happen and I have seen it elsewhere, but not on Dr. Who or Torchwood for that matter. Gay people are just people in RTDs universe they aren't always heroes, they aren't always villains, some are married or otherwise committed some aren't. Heterosexual characters in RTDs universe same deal as far as I can see. They're part of the world we live in and an increasingly visible part of our times. It makes sense that they'd become more visible on the television dramas as well. They should reflect our times.
-
it was probably too vague for kids to gret if they weren't already familiar with the concept.
-
4.11?
BRILLIANT!.. RTD is 2 for 2.. next week is looking a very long way away.
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 273 total posts 271 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 92 total posts 92 posts
- AVENGERS enemy revealed as pink boardgame pieces... You might suffer some form of elation... SPOILERS!!! -- 160 total posts 69 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 151 total posts 63 posts
- Does ‘SNL’ Rhyme With ‘Deschanel’?? Learn Which SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE Vet Hosts After Sexy Zooey!! -- 67 total posts 59 posts
- HANNA's Saoirse Ronan to boss around seven little people -- 60 total posts 57 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 484 total posts 49 posts
- Here's The Red Band Trailer For Drafthouse Films' THE FP! -- 69 total posts 42 posts
- Friday Brings SWEEPS DAY NINE!! Gab Here About Tonight’s FRINGE!! Plus Einstein on TIM, Wiig On PORTLANDIA, MAHER, CLONE, GIFTED, GRIMM, SPARTACUS, SUPERNATURAL, GOLD RUSH And More!! -- 120 total posts 32 posts
- SPACE 2099!! -- 183 total posts 24 posts