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Capone on THE INCREDIBLE HULK!
Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
Let's just assume for the moment that it was okay of Marvel Studios to make a new Hulk movie that isn't exactly a sequel and isn't exactly a reboot of Ang Lee's perfectly fine 2003 effort. The difficulty in producing any movie based on this character is that the Hulk himself isn't that interesting a character. Now before you jump up and down and wish me death, allow me to explain. I think Bruce Banner is one of the most fascinating Marvel creations ever invented, and Ang Lee did a terrific job plumbing the psychological depth and struggles this man must go through on a daily basis to keep his cool and not let out the ultimate manifestation of his raging Id. Sure, it's always a blast to watch the Hulk demolish anyone and everything that challenges him, and in this new film these sequences are mind-blowing, especially now that we've got a villain of equal, possibly superior, strength. But let's face it, plot and character development get pummeled right alongside cars and buildings when the Hulk breaks out.
The challenge for any filmmaker is making the Banner character even a fraction as interesting as Hulk, a nearly impossible task. And so watching a Hulk movie or the television show (which I cherish) is essentially a waiting game for many. My memory hasn't been tested on this point in a while, but I always remember TV's "The Incredible Hulk" coming up with halfway decent stories that actually held my interest. In the first HULK movie, Eric Bana did an excellent job capturing the turmoil of carrying a monster within him. My point is that live-action Hulk is nearly impossible to get right because everybody wants to see destruction, but destruction only takes you so far. So we turn to the plot of a Hulk movie, which is doomed to be less interesting than the destruction. Do we really care about Banner's love life? Okay, maybe we're curious to see what happens when the old heart rate gets a-pumpin' under the sheets (a scenario dealt with clumsily in THE INCREDIBLE HULK), but it's not nearly as satisfying as watching Hulk strap police cars to his fists and use them as boxing gloves. The point is, the Hulk taps into our most primal needs as action film lovers, and more often than not, anything that stands in our way of said action seems like a pesky nuisance.
So how is THE INCREDIBLE HULK? That's a tough question. Four scenes in the new film are downright glorious. Three of them are the film's main action sequences, and one, well, you know what the fourth one is if you've heard anything about the cameos in this movie. It's the final sequence, set in a dive bar, and it's equally great for what it represents and for what it is. The rest of the movie is more of a mixed bag. I think Edward Norton is one of the greatest actors of his generation, and I've thought so since I first saw him in PRIMAL FEAR years ago, where he also played a character with something dark and destructive inside of him. But I could never shake the feeling that his heart just wasn't in this movie. I'd love to throw some of the blame at the screenwriters for failing to make Bruce Banner as compelling a character as he's been in the past, but I'd still be blaming Norton (who co-wrote the screenplay—under the name Edward Harrison—with Zak Penn). Growing a few day's worth of stubble and making yourself look sweaty doesn't make your character deep and thoughtful; it makes him unkempt.
I liked the idea of Banner living a life of solitude and relentlessly practicing meditation to keep his heart rate under control under the most intense circumstances, although I wonder if an impoverished city in Brazil is the best place to build a calm environment around you. Anyone who has seen CITY OF MEN knows that's pretty much impossible. But let's give Banner the benefit of the doubt and assume he's found the one major Brazilian city that has little or no violence. The initial attack on Banner by the U.S. Army led by General Ross (William Hurt) is a pretty solid re-introduction to the Hulk persona. Coming into close contact with Hulk is Emil Blonsky (Tim Roth), who wants another crack at the monster after getting his ass handed to him in their first encounter. When the film throws around terms like "Super Soldier" and "S.H.I.E.L.D.", of course, it makes me smile. And there are quite a few nice comic book fan touches like that scattered throughout THE INCREDIBLE HULK, but those winking recognitions only carry you so far. (Composer Craig Armstrong's not-so-subtle inclusion of the "walking away" piano music from the "Hulk" TV show got one of the best crowd reactions.)
Blonsky insists that General Ross subject him to exposure testing similar to Banner's and the results are grotesque, eventually turning Roth into a warped and hideous Hulk-like creature called the Abomination. Roth gives the best performance in the movie. As interesting as the Abomination is to look at, I'm more of a fan of the middle fight sequence involving Hulk and a juiced-up Roth, who jumps and scurries around Hulk but still looks like Roth, who appears to be the only one having fun in this movie. Liv Tyler's take on Betty Ross, the good general's daughter and Banner's love interest, works fine, but nothing grinds a superhero movie to grinding halt more than a boring love story (unless the love interest also has superpowers). I used to dismiss Tyler as an actress, but between this film and The Strangers, I find her a much more engaging performer. The film almost self-destructs when Tim Blake Nelson comes into the picture as Prof. Samuel Sterns, a biologist who is secretly helping Banner in his effort to rid himself of his little Hulk problem. I've always dug Nelson, but he's so fucking annoying here and acting for the folks in the rafters pretty much non-stop. Like Blonsky, Sterns is seduced by the power he sees manifested in the Hulk, but he sees Banner's blood as a means to cure hundreds of diseases. The film leaves the distinct impression that the professor would be a villain should a sequel happen.
THE INCREDIBLE HULK has some decent ideas kicking around, but in the end they don't ever gel the way they should. Somehow Banner has managed to elude those chasing him for years, yet when he gets with 50 feet of Betty, his mind turns to mush. When you're trying to stay undercover and your lady friend says, "Can I walk you to the bus?", the answer is "No, because the same people who are looking for me would likely be looking for you as well, and it's broad daylight, dummy." I know this is a small instance, but the film is filled with moments like that, and the cumulative effect on my brain was too much to handle. In fact, it made me angry. And when I get angry, I type angry stuff about your deeply flawed film. For those wanting to see the coolness of how Marvel is establishing its film universe, THE INCREDIBLE HULK is a must-see. But for those of you that just don't care, you can probably skip this one.
Capone
capone@aintitcoolmail.com
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no rush to see this,I'll wait for the crowds to die down then see it on a saturday afternoon
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But i am still going to see it.
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You might want to throw them SPOLIER tags up, because I doubt that is common knowledge. I don't mind knowing but some people are gonna be upset with that.
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Well I am still looking forward to this
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i've just never been jazzed about any hulk movie. i hate seeing big cartoon characters in a live action movie. granted this is leaps and bounds over ang lee's film, but still. i just have a hard time believing this is an actual creature standing on the earth.
maybe one day when cg kicks ass i'll be interested in a hulk movie, but for now, i'll just watch it online or wait for video. -
Was better than Iron Man. That old scientist dude in the cave leading Stark to the light of moral salvation was too weak as the basis of his conversion, although I do like the metaphor of the cave now that I think of it... But the military fetishism plays right in the hand of the 'military industrial complex' it at times pretends to be criticizing (http://tinyurl.com/65btv6). I preferred Ang Lee's approach to the military. Integrating the nuclear blasts with the Hulk's own origins (instead of riding the fridge), and then demonstrating the consequences in the relation between Hulk/father, and later Hulk/military, was, I think, very well done, even if the need for a cliché 'super-villain' as the main antagonist trope didn't appeal to most people. Too bad. I may not be as invested in the traditional origins of the character as most comics readers, but I do appreciate it when movies attempt to go beyond what is expected of them. I enjoyed Iron Man, and I hope I enjoy this Hulk too, but I guess I'm not expecting much. The Watchmen, however, is something I am looking forward to... and which I hope surpasses my expectations.
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Wall-E was on Kimmel tonight! Awesome! Kimmel is the best late night right now.
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Wall-E Robot.
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Sorry you didn't like it Capone. I notice that you kept comparing it to Ang Lee's film. I appreciated what Agn Lee tried to do: Make a superhero movie for people who don't read superheroes.
But the problem was this: Ang Lee Hulk over thought the subject matter. Hulk is first and foremost about action and s sense of sci-fi humbuggery. Ang Lee tried to give us a "scientific reason" for the Hulk existing and then gave us radioactive poodles. And an incomprehensible ending.
You looked at this movie as a movie critic, instead of a geek movie goer. Not a bad thing. You spent too much time comparing it to the movie before and then to what the actors did elsewhere. Oh well...sorry you didn't enjoy it. -
After seeing and hearing much about this project, I just never really got amped to see this. I actually thought Ang Lee did an admirable job with the Hulk (maybe more-so do to Lee's versatility as a true Director), but alas, I felt as though Lee spent too much time with character development, resulting in a fragmented comic book movie. I feel as though TIH is to the opposite side of the spectrum...paying too much attention to the superficiality of the character. I understand this version isn't exactly a thinking man's movie, but I'll still give it a try.
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I feel the same way about Iron Man. Weak ending... but I liked it. It was good. I was entertained. Hulk will probably be the same. You know what? I'm good with that. Give me 7 or 8 solid Marvel movies...not earth shatteringly, awesome masterworks...but culminating in a great ensemble Avengers flick and I think we fanboys would all be pretty stoked don't you think?
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Norton was on Kimmel as well. Not really an interview but still funny.
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for the blu-ray version...cinematic release was too short! My ideal cut...60 mins story...60 mins fight! Two creatures with near limitless power could take their fight across the globe...not just stuck in some city street! and finally *spoiler* what did they do with Abomination, pop handcuffs on him?!
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...this read a lot like Devin's review from C.H.U.D. I'm debating whether to see it or wait 'till the DVD.
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My expectations were starting to get a little too high for this movie. Reading Capone's review has grounded me a bit, though I still expect I'll enjoy it more than he did. Based on the review, it sounds like Capone wasn't much of a comic book reader than I was when I was younger. Can't wait to see it tomorrow night!
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from the fucking celler. Hahaha that was pretty funny Sir Norton.
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it's not a spoiler anymore because they're using it in the TV ads. i guess since the first hulk was generally negatively received they aren't taking any chances and are milking the iron man popularity as much as possible
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"My movie great! No say bad things! Hulk crush your testicles with his teeth!"
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seem to like the Ang Lee Hulk. I think it gets to much heat. Sit down, watch and enjoy. It's not that bad. Anyway, Ill watch Hulk for myself. I usually try not to let Critics sway me from seeing a movie for myself. So many times people will hate a movie that I end up liking.
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Lee actually made The Hulk character partially fascinating. I would suggest that Capone's belief that Hulk is secondary to Banner is one that Lee was fully aware of and tried to correct, which of course is why the film was hailed as a failure. I loved Lee's version and think this new version is rather ordinary. It is well known that Norton was unhappy with the script. Apparently in American History X Tony Kaye wanted Derek Vinyard as a more ensemble type character and lost. New Line let Norton cut the film and turned in a very good film which if Kaye had got his way might have been a great film about the horrendous toll racism takes in America. For mine the ending of that film was a rush job which seemed contrived as we get no warning whatsoever it is coming. I don't buy that an african american kid would whack a guy for blowing smoke in his face. Almost contradicts what the film is about. I mean is the kid a brother of the character Ed Norton kills at the film's first plot point. it is all guess work with no empirical evidence to back it up. Ruined a potentially great movie with incredible performances. Norton was robbed of an oscar. His best performance ever. The tension that could have been cranked up for the conclusion of that film would have been off the scale. How could they not crank up the tension of watching how Derek tries to get his family to safety from the gangs who want revenge and neo nazi's he turned on, before they all get killed. New Line blew it big time with the ending and i am not alone in my sentiment there. Twenty more minutes and that film would have been a classic.
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"Wall-E could kick your ass"....and Liv Tyler reminds me a lot of her character from That Thing You Do when I hear her talk in real life.
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Jun 13, 2008 1:08:01 AM CDT
As an alternative they could go with the original/Peter David Hu
by jmyoung666
If anyone has read the 6 issues of the original Hulk comic or his early Tales to Astonish/Avengers/FF appearances he was much more of a Mr. Hyde type. Peter David returned the Hulk to that state. The only times the Hulk has been interesting is when he was semi or fully intelligent.
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I usually agree with both Capone and Harry, but since they split on this one, I have to go with Harry. I was at the screening in Chicago and while the film is by no means the greatest comic book flick ever made, it is still a solid Marvel property on the screen. Although everyone involved in the film says it isn't an origin story, I beg to differ. One of the fun things in the history of the Hulk comic book was how Bruce Banner did at some points control the Hulk and he even became intelligent. You see glimmers of the possibilities in this film. You see glimpses of what could come down the road especially once we get to The Avengers. The moments where you see The Hulk think and plan are what made it for me. I think he does start to emerge as a character. This film isn't about the origin of Banner turning into the Hulk, but the early origins of the Hulk becoming a hero.
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And don't get me started on the radioactive poodles!
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my Hulk/Banner knowledge is limited...At the end of the film was Banner able to call upon the Hulk...as well as surpress him?
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Finally, someone with some sense. After reading that script and seeing that film, I have no idea how people could come away feeling the way Harry and others have. I felt as though I had fallen into another dimension. A phantom zone where good taste is incorporeal.
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I thought geeks were supposed to be "smart." So, in reality, geeks are "stupid?" So does that make them, like, double losers, as in "stupid geeks?"
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Have to disagree with Capone here. For me, I thought it was a more satisfying film than Iron Man.
Iron Man was great till the not so big fight at the end, complete with Jeff Bridges' character monologuing just enough ( I kept expecting him to try twirling his moustache too ) to let Stark beat him, or rather Pepper Potts I spose.And then the big announcement at the press conference was almost as bad as Darth Vader's ridiculous " Nooooooo!" at the end of ROtS.
The CGI is way better than it looked in the commercials, but still it's not quite there yet. Several moments during the "Big Fight" the CGI would take you out of the suspension of disbelief ( mainly with the way Abomination looked and moved).
However it has at least evolved way beyond what Ang Lee's movie looked like.
Hulk vs The Army for me was the best action scene, as well as the quieter bit with Hulk and Betty in the storm.
Anyway, loved it.Glad I saw it on a big screen in a theater, will probably see it at least once again before it's finished it's run. -
Oh, one last bit. Nothing to see at the end of the credits this time.The fourth scene between Ross and you know who happens just before the credits roll.I figured as much since they show the not so secret scene in the latest tv ad as someone else mentioned above.
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Sorry but it was pretty bad. I guess expected an X-Men 1 given the hype and positivity surrounding the film over the last few weeks. I couldn't believe how bad it was. Norton looked like he wanted to be somewhere else. Tyler & the rest of the cast were awful. Maybe too much development was cut? The first 30 mins were pretty good but after leaving Brazil, it falls apart completely. I'm sick of watching 'product'... p.s. The Lou Ferrigno cameo was the best part. I mean that sincerely.
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The minute i ever read or hear this or the ol "the Hulk was never a deep character,it's all smash and smash some more", i usually take anything else that person has to say on the subject with a grain of salt. Hell, Peter David spent over a decade on the Hulk telling some of the most complex, character defining stories in all comicdom. Ang Lees attempt at dealing with Banners issues was amatuerish compared to Davids work. It's like comparing the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie to the comic. And all this pyschobable about people's pent up expectations of destruction when viewing the Hulk is bullcrap. You know what the audience wants in an adventure/action film? Adventure and action, that's what they want, be it Superman, Spider-Man, or Lethal Weapon. They don't want to be put to sleep. Now, i'm not defending this movie since i haven't seen it yet, but some of the remarks and observations in this review annoyed me.
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...pretty much means it's a crappy review.
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Harry and Moriarty were just too preoccupied with the idea of "coherent Marvel Universe!" to look at the film subjectively. So thanks. Same with Iron Man. I thought it was pretty brilliant for a while, until the last one third when it fell apart giving Tony nothing to do and finally a lame villain to fight.
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I just got home from seeing it, and while it wasn't as good as the not over-rated Iron Man it was easily the best realized adaptation of the Hulk to ever come along.I find it interesting that after reading these Hulk talkbacks for awhile, I've seen that almost half the posts start with some variation on "I was one of the few who appreciated the true genius of Ang Lee's Hulk". They then proceed to enlighten those of us too dense to understand its subtleties.Ang Lee's Hulk did truly suck, and it deserves every degree of the heat that it recieves.
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Apparently some people are so dense that even after you enlighten them on "the true genius of Ang Lee's Hulk" they still don't get it. Or rather just closed-minded?
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That sucks your eyeballs out.
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I don't want to see "Hulk smash".
Anyone who's really interested in the idea of a man controlling the raging fury that lies within, should check out the original pilot for the 70's series. It was mature and literate, in other words the polar opposite of most of today's movie crap. Ferrigno, don't you miss Bill too? -
And so did the audience I was with. The Hulk effects were often really terrible, and the movie was darned cheesy at points...but "HULK SMASH!" Hulk clapping his hands together...sonic cannons from Stark...I'm with Harry, this stuff is awesome. I had a rollicking good time with a fun superhero action film. The film pretended to be nothing more than it was.
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I really like Ang's Hulk alot. I like the introspection. I liked how they incorporated Banner's father's insanity and abusiveness. Plus the murder of his mom. It's all there in the comics. Really. Even the Hulk Dogs, (which I admit was a pretty lame idea). So, being a lover of the first, I'm totally geared to see this interpretation.
Yeah, I'm into the smash a bash, and I think if you go into the movie expecting this and really nothing else, it should be enjoyable. Hell, it's a summer popcorn movie. Not a political message movie.
See you at the theater.
And yeah, Dark Knight is gonna OWN this summer. -
Capone starts by telling us that the Hulk isn't an interesting character. Then he tells us that Banner is one of Marvel's most fascinating characters. Then he states that it's a challenge to make Banner as interesting as the Hulk. Good work.
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I thought this was a pretty good review. I saw the film here in the UK last night and really enjoyed it. But it it SO different a movie to the Lee version. Fascinating, Captain! I'm glad (but a bit surprised) that so many LeeHulk lovers have surfaced here. I guess it took the reality of this movie to show how good that one was, in it's own way. Thumbs up, though, if only for the amazing brawls (and the cameo).
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But this new hulk would totally beat the shit out of that movie. I love them both now, but if you want super hero action, this is the version to watch.
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stop excusing it you tools
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I didn't think there was necessarily a lack of story, per say. It seemed like the story unraveled in a more organic way if that makes any sense. I really enjoyed it, particularly how much I felt it has in common with the Bruce Jones run from a few years back.
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Honest, genuine and well-balanced in your critiques.Moriarty used to be the top honcho, but blew it with his gushing over the hysterical 'Speed Racer' (told you it wouldn't make it's money back, son!)Here's to you, Capone! Roll on your 'Dark Knight' review!
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..And I loved it. It's well-acted, brisk, packed with action, the script was good, the effects were great, and most important, it was FUN. Almost made up for the cinematic arse rape I endured at Crystal Skull a couple of weeks ago.
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I'll give M. Night the benefit of the doubt, he's earned it.
hey movie fans, check out this awesome new blog on blogspot. it's called thebitterproducer
spread the word! -
Am I the only one who thinks Ang Lee's hulk looks more natural?
hey movie fans check out this funny new movie blog on blogspot. it's called thebitterproducer
spread the word!
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Cause in the trailers, it looks like it might be in the movie.
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Is the voice of the Hulk. Thats awesome.
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The audience loved it, i loved it, my friends who've never held a comic book in their lives loved it. Not sure where the stuff about norton's performance comes from he was very good, as was Liv, and i was impressed by the way their relationship was dealt with, juxtaposed with the Betty / Gneral and Blonsky / General relationships. Even the telegraphed flip side of having Tim Roth travelling in the exact opposite direction to Norton worked well. The angry, but still heroic element was nicely done too.
The Marvel movieverse elements obviously increased the experence for me personally, but if you check the reviews in the Hollywood reportr etc do you think they care? Hell no they just see a good summer movie.
Marvel are 2 for 2, and i hope the box office is good on this.
It worries me to see Capone advise people to stay away, when surely, even if he didn't love the film, he ca see Marvel trying to make these movies the right way. People staying away will just lead them to cut even "story" and throw more action
finally the effects. Generally very good, the Wet hulk wasn't so good, and obviously yht monster mash varies, but are we seriously saying that the thing in the fantastic 4 movies looks better? -
Agreed that its tough to see a big cartoon monster on screen with real people. It simply does not work. It is distracting to the degree that that thats all you can focus on. Not to mention that as I said, the new CGI hulk effects look like the worst dry rotted suit you could stomp around in. I have 2 free tickets from buying the 2 for $40 Original hulk tv series (Now THATS some good stuff) so I guess my son will drag me to this and keep telling me that he can overlook bad cgi. sounds a lot to me like overlooking a rotting smell coming from some real mouth watering food.
HULK was a disatsre from the first frame. I am not here to brow beat anyone that loved it into my line of thinking, but between that and SUPERMAN RETURNS, its amazing how quickly those 2 rocketed onto my top 10 list of worst films EVER..that's E-V-E-R. Very few films make me so unmitigatedly disgusted that I want to find the people and kick their teeth down their throats. Even INDY 4 simply left me empty and sad because I was so high on it for months.
HULK had every possible thing wrong with a film you could have...wrong cast, wrong director, horrible script, A HULK that was 20 feet tall like King Kong, Giant Mutant Poodles(!!!!!), Endless Psycho babble about what happened in the bedroom, and as others will testify, an ending that defies a logical description: Banner, captured by the military, is chained to a chair in the middle of a stage by a spot lite, and they let his psycho dad interview him and watch while he enrages him, both scream, howl to the heavens like werewolves while the camera spins around in an overhead shot - and on and on. I look up and now theres a not turn away or you will miss the Absorbing man which should have been the villain all along kind of mini battle thing and then its over. An amazing experience. The beginning of the fall of marvel films. From there you had Spiderman 2 where peter, a science major, had to get Doctor Octopus to come out of his villain rage to defeat himself (!), X-men 2 where the logic of Jean Grey going OUTSIDE the airplane to do her water stopping moses tricks makes no sense, Spiderman 3 where Sandman is ripped right out of THE MUMMY, to FF2 where the Silver Surfer sleeps INSIDE HIS BOARD and shows home movies IN HIS STOMACH. Its enough to make a grown man cry. "sit back, watch and enjoy". I dont know, seems like I could go watch random color patterns in a kaleidoscope for all the linear logic either offer. An accurate representation of characters from over 40 years of material? I dont think so. -
There are many, many subtle and not so subtle cameos.
The movie was good as well. It had its weak points but I enjoyed it. -
While being a funny skit, it didn't really help the Norton didn't have a problem with the movie situation that no one can seem to answer.
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if you read the novel of the movie the scenes are still in there and these are the scenes Norton was ticked about having cut. Samson calls Ross and is nearly caught doing so by Betty and Bruce (the Samson/Bruce talk that's seen in the trailer is also cut which would have helped a great deal with that part of the movie). The attempt as suicide which would have been a great scene was cut from the films opening...but is left in the video game!? THAT MAKES SENSE. But the movie was still great, and I enjoyed it. But I think it would have been improved greatly if they had left those scenes in the film.
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which is why so many writers of the comic have utilized different personalities for the Hulk, which works wonderfully when the story's good. How long till we see the Hulk with Banner's intelligence, like the comic?
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I've seen the bit with Stark and Thunderbolt, but there's no way you could say that it was from the final scene of the film from the TV trailer. That is why it's somewhat of a spoiler. Like I said, I don't mind but I think these reviews (a couple I've read) seem to think that it is common knowledge that this scene is the final scene of the film when there is no possible way folks that have yet to see it can surmise that from the trailer.
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Stephens, the scientist, becomes the Leader
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He's a great actor, and given his apprent involvement with the screenplay I assumed he would have written a nice beefy part for himself to play. It's not so much that he's bad as Banner, just that he's competent and not much more. It also doesn't help that Downey's turn in Iron Man is still fresh in our minds. Norton doesn't come close to matching it.Overall, I liked the film, though. Leterrier, I think, is pretty good at crafting unselfconsciously enjoyable action films, and that's exactly what The Incredible Hulk is. It's not offering much in the way depth or complexity, but it has a few laughs, some great action, and I liked Liv Tyler a lot. A solid, enjoyable film, I reckon.
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First off, I enjoyed the movie a bunch. All the nods to the old show, Bixby,Hulk Gray, and the other history were great.
I was actually left wanting more Banner moments though. Having read the novelization, the bits that they left out would have really served to fill in some character development. I think it would have been better with those bits in.
And its always weird to me when they put stuff in trailers and tv commercials that don't make it in to the final cut of the film.
Anyway, I still enjoyed it. -
From the way the film ends (with a quick reveal that Banner is now in control of his Hulkitis) and then ends again (Stark approaching Ross about his 'team' he's putting together), I got the impression that maybe the Stark scene was conceived as a post credits easter egg and was later moved back to a pre-credits place. Who knows why. Maybe they were worried people would leave and miss it, and they didn't want to miss milking the Iron Man love.By the way, in the cinema where I saw the film, there were audible gasps and a light smattering of applause when Downey appeared in that bar. People seemed to really like the cameo.
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i think this is the best version of the hulk i've seen. i'm not a hulk fan, but this movie made me like the character a little more. the biggest crowd response was from the final scene in the movie, and the biggest laugh was probably from Stan Lee's cameo. I just couldn't believe i was in a room with that many people that knew who Stan Lee was. Great stuff. I can't help but think that the part of the pizza shop owner named Stanley, was written for him.
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But the rest of us who think Ang Lee is an overrated filmmaker and that his films are slow-moving, self-indulgent, semi-ridiculous shit will probably love it.
Considering Capone's review of Incredible Hulk, I think I may just ignore his review of The Happening. It seems that Capone and I do not see eye-to-eye when it comes to taste in films. Anyone who thinks Ang Lee's Hulk "did a good job plumbing the psychological depth" has questionable taste in film, in my oh-so-humble opinion.
No offense, Capone, but we just don't like the same things. You're an anime fan, too, aren't you?
Yeah. Thought so. -
Spoiler-free, easy to read.. thanks Capone--I'm seeing this one next week, when it opens here, in Argentina
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Did anybody else stop reading right there?
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...nope...not at all. In fact, I didn't really use my mutagenically-enhanced brain at all. I did, however, enjoy the movie cause it was a good time. Remember those? Good times? Before everybody became pretentious assholes we used to have good times at the movies (well, before that and before asshole parents who simply must bring their screaming, chromosome-deficient, inbred progeny to my fucking movie house!).I won't preach about how you're a moron cause you don't like Lee's Hulk. I presume you just didn't enjoy it cause it wasn't a good time for you. I don't see how that would indicate anything other than a different opinion. Now, if you said you thought Liv Tyler was more beautiful than Jennifer Connely, or a better actor, well then you are indeed, a fucking moron. No more questions!!!
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"The difficulty in producing any movie based on this character is that the Hulk himself isn't that interesting a character."
"The challenge for any filmmaker is making the Banner character even a fraction as interesting as Hulk, a nearly impossible task"
So it's nearly impossible to make Banner a fraction as interesting as an uninteresting character? -
Thanks.
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That IS exactly correct. That is what this film is all about. Good call EPE.
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I didn't think it was truly awful or anything, I just didn't get enough HULK SMASH! kind of stuff.
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I think you mean to refer to CITY OF GOD, Capone. There is a CITY OF MEN movie, but I don't believe that is the one you intended to refer to.
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I respect Ang Lee as a film maker, but his Hulk left me wanting (as I suspect it did many a fan). That said, this is a completely different type of film with just the right kind of development and action pacing. I very rarely agree 100% with Harry on this site (and hence my agreement with him here puts me at odds with Capone) but the total geekgasm I experienced in the final scene of this film rivaled that of the one I had during Iron Man and that's where the payoff lies for me--the recognition of a coherent universe is beginning to take shape. My only hope now is that we don't have the type of monstrous disappointment we had when X3 ruined the Dark Phoenix storyline.
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This has been a bad few days for you- first Everyone seems to like this Hulk more than that piss poor Lee version and then "auteur" Night produces another stinker.
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Way overrated.
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This is the first negative review I read from this site. All the others were positive, unless I missed one. I'm going to see this tonight. In a few weeks the whole world will forget the horrible abortion of a film that was Angst Lee's Hulk.
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1 you notice that when a reviewer for this movie on this site has a less than stellar review he doesn't get a descriptive headline like "CAPONE MEHS INFLATABLE HULK", nay he's just "on" incredible hulk. 2 speaking of prepositions, there is no need for "inside of" - that is one too many, it is simply "inside". inside the garage. inside me. no of please. 3 if nothing else, this movie introduced vast swathes of comicdom geeks to the word favela.
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You are definately not the only one that thinks the '03 Hulk looked better. Not talking about the whole film but the charcter himself. I would rank '03 Hulk first, Lou TV hulk second and '08 Hulk third. No question that '08 Hulk had the best script to work from but it's the weakest of the lot.
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I don't know why its so hated. Go watch Transformers if you want explosions.
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The movie is entertaining. More straightforward than Ang Lee's Hulk, but I liked that one, too. The best thing I can say about the new Hulk is that I wasn't constantly comparing it to Lee's version, which, when you look at the films side by side, had better action sequences, better effects and a more powerful Hulk.
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Well said Jack Shepherd...
It's the space around those things that hide it... Pick any of the things that people didn't like about HULK and they are in the Incredible Hulk and usually worse. Sappy love story? See above. Bruce just walks down the street in broad daylight. Hulk doing his best King Kong impersionation. Hulk screaming at the lighting. Guess he was still upset over their last meeting? And the worst... Big bad HULK gently wiping a tear off of Betty's cheek. ***END RANT*** -
Yeah, I stopped reading right there too. It wasn't "perfectly fine". It wasn't imperfecly fine. It wasn't even fine. Well, I'll read the rest of the review later, I'm seeing this today.
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HULK SMASH!!
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I don't like this review one bit..uh huh not one bit! You disappoint me Capone! rrrRRRRRrrrrr.
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The Tony Stark cameo is cool and everything, but isn't it sort of foolish to be alluding to The Avengers at this point? I know that Favreau has said that Marvel is interested in using all of the same actors for the upcoming team movies, but shit -- Hollywood doesn't work like that. The Ocean's Eleven movies may seem like the logical exception to this rule, but their FX budgets are nil compared to a superhero movie.
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No alluding about it. Along with Captain America, Thor, and IM2. And all the charcters are Marvel owned, so really they are in the absolute best position to do that now that they have their own studio. I would bet the actor's contracts for all these films has some nice catch-all clauses in them. If not, just recast. Although RDjr would be damned hard to replace as Tony Stark.
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`Although RDjr would be damned hard to replace as Tony Stark.' That's what I'm saying, man! I (usually) hate it when they recast established roles. Look, we already know that The Avengers has been announced in the press, but when you have Downey, Jr. himself more or less make the announcement on-screen, you're sort of making a promise to the audience...one that you may or may not be able to keep. I hope you're right about those contract clauses, though. It would be cool to see Norton and Downey, Jr. reprise their roles.
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That if they used a real person as the hulk, no matter who they chose (Triple H anyone?) you would be pissed. There is not a person on this board that would want to see a non-CG Hulk in this film. I don't understand how people can like movies like "Crank" and the Transporter abortions, but then shit all over this for looking fake. It's a fucking superhero movie. And for all those that think they are going to one day see a multi-character Marvel universe without any problems from the 3 or 4 studios that have Marvel properties think again. A cameo is one thing, but a whole movie is something else. Get ready for one hell of a battle that even the best superhero won't be able to settle.
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I'm just guessing here, but I'd think these actors are already under contracts that contemplate the Avengers movie. Both RDJ and EN have stated they are each signed for 3 movies. Sure, that might mean 3 Iron Man movies and 3 Hulk movies respectively, but it could also mean 2 Iron Men, 2 Hulks, and then 1 Avengers.
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I'm a huge Marvel fan, but wasn't really stoked about this movie. Let me tell you, the previews do not do it justice. This movie rocked, I couldn't believe the crowd reaction. If you liked Iron Man, and I loved it, then you have to check out Hulk!!!
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Then again, who knows? Marvel is either going to pull off one of the greatest events in movie history, or it'll be a total clusterfuck. After seeing Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk... I'm putting money on 'epic movie history'. IH really blew me away with how they changed direction from the first film (which I hated) and just moved on.Was it as good as Iron Man? No, I've always found Iron Man \ Tony Stark a much more interesting character. But was it the best possible Hulk movie? Yep. HULK SMASH. Hulk smash alot, which is exactly what he was supposed to do.Now, how they will handle Thor and Cap, I dunno, but so far they've done great. Thor I'm not sure of how they'll pull it off. For Cap, I'm really hoping for a WWII period movie w/ Red Skull, ending w/ him frozen only to be revived at the beginning of Avengers.
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at the end with a leather duffel bag and peacoat and do they play the Lonely Man theme??? Please gotta know!!
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I just saw it and it was pretty damn good. It was violent, there was Hulk smashing, Hulk fighting the military, Hulk fighting the Abomination, the Leader was introduced, SHIELD was involved, Stark Industries were involved, Tony Stark was there, Captain America was referenced, Edward Norton was fantastic, etc. Need I say more? This is a nice companion piece to Iron Man (though perhaps not quite as good). Bring on Thor and Captain America.
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Not at the end... there's somethign better at the end.But there is hitchhiking & Lonely Man playing in the film. Well worth watching.
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Say it doesn't make a difference all you wish, but it does, and it is pretty damn poor resembling roger rabbit at times with the contrast between live and CG.
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Ang Lee's Hulk would fucking annihilate this so called "Incredible" Hulk, this Hulk was a pussy by comparison. Not a bad film though, mostly entertaining but the action was nowhere near inventive enough.
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...but honestly you are being way too hard on this movie, and your self-contradicting review indicates that you don't really even like or get the Hulk. I saw it this afternoon and it was fucking great. Ed Norton was fucking great. Even Liv and Ed together was well done. I caught most of what bothered you Capone, but I don't think you understood what a great popcorn movie this is... I was enjoying the movie too much to give a shit. The amount of comments I've just read from people that have said they won't see Incredible Hulk just because you say it sucks is unbelievable. Go, and enjoy yourselves.
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When I go to the movies I simply want to have a good time. I actually had a good time at the Ang Lee version of Hulk. I had more of a good time at this new Hulk though.
As far as playing the role of Bruce Banner, Norton opened up a big ol' can of whoop ass on Bana. Norton conveyed a tortured soul far better than Bana. Norton made you feel Bruce's anguish. That is the essential ingredient needed for Hulk to work. Ang Lee had Banner say that he actually liked the power Hulk gave him. Norton's Banner saw it as a cross to bear and something that he needed to rid himself of. The only reason he chose to become the Hulk, at the end, was because he knew he was the only thing that could stop Abomination. You could sense the internal conflict.
Incredible Hulk gets a thumbs up from me. I put it at #2 behind Iron Man, so far, in the Summer movies. My guess is, though, that Dark Knight will hit the scene and stomp a mudhole in Iron Man and Hulk and then walk it dry. -
Great film, really entertaining. Way better than Ang Lee's. Looking forward for Thor, Caps and Avengers!!
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Has anyone mentioned the need for Peter David and Todd McFarlane's badass cigar chomping fully conversational Gray Hulk to get on the big screen? We can only dream.......
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Are they like that in their off-line lives?
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To be honest, my expectations for this film were pretty low - some would say nonexistent. Months ago, Louis Leterrier's take on the jolly green giant had absolutely nothing going for it: tons of bad publicity, behind-the-scenes disputes, and an advertising campaign you couldn't spot if it was right in front of you. As a matter of fact, if you told anyone four months ago they'd be watching an action-packed blockbuster that honored the source material you'd be in a padded cell struggling to get out of that straitjacket the orderly just had strapped to your chest. The Incredible Hulk is, needless to say, THAT kind of movie.
One of the film's strong suits is the cast and it certainly shows from the get-go. I wasn't watching Ed Norton turn into the Hulk - I was watching Bruce Banner turn into the Hulk. As for character development, let's just say it was severely lacking in the department; but that's probably Marvel's fault. The truth is, it was the only thing this version lacked, which makes my anticipation for the Director's Cut that much higher. I was even pleasantly surprised by Liv Tyler and William Hurt, arguably the two weakest links in this installment.
When it comes to action, there's no questioning this man's talent. He constructs elaborate set pieces that leave you breathless and wanting more at the same time. Should a sequel be made, it'll be interesting to see how he tackles the Leader's mind-control and to what extent he takes it. Of course, this cannot be said without mentioning the CGI. While the SFX did get pretty ridiculous at times, it didn't take me out of the movie.
The producers have often said this movie is, first and foremost, a tribute to the television series and comics alike. As a result, you'll notice many allusions to both sprinkled throughout - and one particularly noticeable cameo at the end.
In retrospect, Ang Lee's Hulk is an ambitious film that is undeservedly underrated. Yes, you read that correctly. It IS possible for the two films to coexist peacefully in one's mind.
All in all, Marvel Studios and Louis Leterrier have done an amazing job with this film. This looks to me like the start of a Golden Age of superhero films. One can only hope DC gets their shit together in the near future. -
Besides his contradiction about Banner and Hulk, when he says "nothing grinds a superhero movie to grinding halt more than a boring love story" that shows that he doesn't really get the point of the Betty Ross character. She's what grounds him and makes him human (yeah, I know, kinda cliche but it works here). Interestingly, though I don't buy Liv Tyler as a cellular biologist for a second, I think Tyler plays the emotional connection to Banner in a much more sincere way than Jennifer Connelly (usually kinda cold) did. And, ok, as is required here, you have to say your opinion of Ang Lee's Hulk. I liked it, thought it was beautiful, but it felt more like a one-shot done by a guest writer/artist. This movie feels more like the comic series. As opposed to Ang Lee's petulant child Hulk, this one actually has more characterization of the Green Guy - in other words, he's not just a psychological manifestation. I love the facial expression that this Hulk gives in the middle of the Abomination fight (which was a better climactic fight than Iron Man, in my opinion) - like he can't believe this thing is still fighting and he has to keep going. Perfect. Hulk wants to be left alone, whereas Abomination wants to fight. This perfectly reflects the differences in motivation between Banner and Blonsky. I really think people who call the Banner scenes 'waiting games' reaallly miss the point of the movie. Keeping the tension of 'will he or won't he turn' in certain scenes, like while Banner is running, in a pretty good rooftop footchase sequence, really add to the story and the character, part of his desperate attempts to control things. Unfortunately, the trailer has told us exactly when he does turn, so that's not a big point. Anyway, looking at Norton (and it's not just the stubble) you can tell the guy's under a heavy burden, and he plays it well. I think Capone's interpretation of Norton's style as 'his heart not being into it' is rather Norton underplaying the drama, in an effective way, I think. So it's funny that Capone criticizes Nelson for overselling and Norton for underselling. And, as he said, Liv Tyler sells just right the emotional connection. I thought everyone was fantastic in this, especially William Hurt's Ross. I even think Tim Blake Nelson was fine as Sterns, doing the quirky scientist character. When I saw where they were going with the character, I loved it. So lots for fans, some great action sequences, and fine acting. This is an excellent companion piece to Iron Man, and I can't wait to see Ed Norton acting off Robert Downey Jr., just as much as I'm looking forward to seeing Hulk and Iron Man fighting side by side and against each other. I hope Marvel doesn't screw it up with this Favreau business, and they find actors for Thor and Cap that can stand toe to toe with Norton and Downey Jr.
One last note, I find it interesting that even though this new film is closer to the comic, they chose to show an origin much closer to the tv show (and possibly the Ultimates) than the Lee/Kirby comics. Ang Lee's origin, though different than the comic because it updates the story from nuclear testing to something else, still maintains the spirit of the comic origin, in that Banner only gets exposed because he saves someone else and takes the gamma blast. Here, it's like the tv show, in that Banner is willingly experimenting on himself. Which does make more sense with the super-soldier story they're trying to tell.
Detail SPOILER: Speaking of super-soldiers, the canister that holds the old Cap serum has the term Weapon Plus on it, I think. Which was Grant Morrison's retcon about Wolverine being part of another supersoldier program, that the X in Weapon X was actually a Roman numeral 10. I hope that they're smart enough to get the rights back from Fox someday and add some mutants to the SHIELDverse. -
I meant, as I said. Capone thought the love story was boring. I thought it was essential.
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I'm sorry, but the movie pacing in this film is terrible. There's only 2 action scenes in the entire film. And they have NOTING on Ang Lee's version as far as destruction went. This movie did a better job with Banner, and I liked this CGI better then the last. But Ang Lee's is superior in my book.
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This movie was..well...INCREDIBLE! Equal respect given to both the comic Hulk and the TV series Hulk. Although I thought Harry's review was rambling and unfocused, Capone is just way off. If you love Comic Book Movies, you have to see this movie because it's one of the best so far. It is the beginning of the Golden Age of Comic Book Movies. There were so many references to the Marvel Universe and that has been sadly lacking in past efforts. It's like the rest of the Super Hero Universe doesn't exist. Which is why Ang Lee's Hulk was such a failure. Well, there were lots of reasons, mainly the incomprehensible storyline, ridiculous villains (Mutant Poodles??? wtf???) and ridiculous ending. There was plenty of action (HULK SMASH!!!!) with a Hulk that fought intelligently. The actors were perfect, especially Edward Norton and Tim Roth. Norton really delivered a solid performance as Banner and it was nice to see a quick cameo of Bill Bixby in the beginning of the movie. There were so many nods to the tv show. The Lab with the chair from the opening credits of the tv series. A clever take on the famous line, "Don't make me Angry", and even the appearance of Mr. McGee, the intrepid reporter that dogged David Banner. But best of all, was the haunting piano music that closed every episode as Banner hitch hiked into the sunset. I can't say enough good things about this movie. Go See It Puny Humans!
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Aside from it being a Hulk movie, it plays out like any one of a hundred military action thrillers or guy-on-the-run movies. If Norton contributed anything unique to the screenplay I can't figure for the life of me what it could have been. Pretty formulaic all the way through. While there may not be any one or two major points of this movie that irk me, there are about twenty to thirty lazy, formulaic, cliche, and "too convenient" bits that remind me that I'm watching just another Hollywood low-intelligence smash-'em-up. I particularly loved the moment in the rock cave -- Hulk had just emerged from a fight where he was bashed all to hell, fired upon relentlessly with machine guns and other heavy offensive weapons, and emerged unscathed and uninjured. But in the rock cave he stands up, bumps his head on a rock, and cries in pain. Oh, okay. Tranquilizer darts bounce off his skin and artillery fire doesn't even faze him, but THAT hurts?! Hitting his head? And, at the very end, having Banner smirk at the audience and having his eyes go all Hulk-green while he's engaging in relaxation exercises is pure audience pandering, nothing less. Makes for a "pop" ending but betrays the integrity of the entire concept. I could go on and on -- I could pick it apart scene by scene, moment by moment, and show you why this film is, for all intents and purposes, "just another action flick". Fans of the comics may love it because it is more action-packed than the 2003 version, but that shouldn't be enough to give the movie a critical free pass.
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ok, so maybe the bit at the end with him "voluntarily" going green is part of the character mythos anyway. I din't know. I only know Hulk from the TV series. But there are plenty of other things about this movie that are insultingly over-used cliches. It shouldn't be enough that a Hulk film appeals to Hulk-lovers because it is action-packed and/or a preferred step away from an earlier attempt at filming his story. There should be some artistic standard to which any film should be held -- sufficient levels of originality, uniqueness, script quality, good editing flow, and respect for the audience. TIH doesn't score particularly high in some of those areas. It isn't enough that we would want it to be a good film about The Hulk. We should want it to also be a good film on other merits too -- well thought-out, well-executed, and a good stand-alone experience. I give it a B-minus.
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Pretty weak. That's supposed to be scene where emotions are the emphasis, not action. A place where he's not expecting pain. He's exhausted from the fighting and running, is vulnerable with Betty, and this is just one more thing. I don't see a problem with that. In fact, it didn't even register as anomalous when I watched it.
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I'm not sure if I saw the same movie as a lot of people around here, but it was a great version of the green guy. I loved Norton's performance, and Roth was very entertaining as the bad guy. The plot was thinner than Iron Man (since that's probably what everyone is going to compare this to), but vastly superior to Super Man (which they should compare it to). The action was great for being between two CGI characters, and I actually cared about what happened. It far exceeded my expectations and I think most people will really like it. I saw it twice (the second time I saw the last 1/2 in a bigger theater on my way out) and both audiences responded very well to all the important scenes (the first one broke out in applause at Ferrigno's appearance, and both loved Downey's cameo). I say it was an outstanding effort and far exceeded the fun factor of Lee's version (no matter how you felt about it).
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Saw it, loved it. It was everything I'd want a Hulk movie to be. What the hell do you expect going into a fucking comic book film, anyway?
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while I do think we werre spoiled with the amount of clips online (there was only a few hulk moments that werent in trailers,clips etc) I had a fucking blast. The final battle had some great fx work as well with aspects of nortons face somewhat visible in the Hulks digitally animated personae (man this weed is strong)
Overall the most impressive part of this film for me was the sound design - breathtaking.
HULK SMASH!!! Gave me a geek boner -
And the CGI was waaaaay better than that first trailer. In fact, the CGI was impressive. It's always difficult to make a CGI human since we see people every damn day adn you can tell if the slightest thing is off... but they did a good job. The effects looked horrible in the trailer but a vast last minute improvement must have occurred. The best part: Hulk choking the shit out the Abomination. I loved the primal gestures. RDJ was cool too.
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So THIS movie goes BACK to the old TV origin, where Banner intentionally experiments on HIMSELF in that goofy dentist's chair in order to "tap into the hidden strengths all humans have"?How STUPID! No sane scientist would do that... it was one thing that always bugged me about the show. And it seems exponentially more idiotic 30 years later to portray Banner as a fool who, instead of using test animals for his dangerous experiments (like in the 2003 film), intentionally places his OWN life and the lives of others in mortal danger for no reason other than simple curiosity.And unlike in Iron Man, the CGI is still as SUCKTACULAR as in the original previews. It felt like I was watching Playstation 3 animated cutscenes, rather than a convincing portrayal of the Hulk.Isn't CGI supposed to get BETTER with time? Then WHY does the Hulk look so damn plastic and FAKE in this movie, as opposed to in 2003, when his flesh looked like actual skin over muscle, instead of carved plastic from Todd McFarlane's workshop?Really, the characters in this film looked as bad as the monsters in Will Smith's "I Am Legend"... utterly BAD. Hulk's mouth even stretched to the same ridiculous proportions every time he roared. And why are his teeth GREEN???Rated B, for BLECH! >:P
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Alright I watched the Ang Lee hulk before I went and seen Nortons Hulk last night. And it baffles me how anyone can say the Ange Lee movie was better. Effin baffles me I say. Nortons Hulk was great and superior in every way. Sorry there was no mutated poodles and teh Hulk didnt like Roger Rabbit in this one. Avengers will be the Shizznit!
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Saw it yesterday. Enjoyed it for what it was (big summer movie). I'm not really a big comic guy, so for me, all I know about the Hulk is what I know from these two movies.
What stood out for me is that in one brief cut scene during the Harlem Abomination rampage, a guy walks out of a doorway to see what's going on, and I thought to myself, "Hey--that's Omar". Sure enough, I stayed for the credits, and Michael Kenneth Williams played "Harlem bystander". I find it odd that a known actor (even if he's known for a niche role) appears on screen for less than 2 seconds. I wonder if he had more of a part (at least a line?) at some point during the making of the movie.
For those who go see this after reading this, keep your eye out for a scary-looking dude in a yellow-orange shirt. -
"And, at the very end, having Banner smirk at the audience and having his eyes go all Hulk-green while he's engaging in relaxation exercises is pure audience pandering, nothing less. Makes for a "pop" ending but betrays the integrity of the entire concept."
Way to miss the point. He's learned, at least to a point, how to control it. You really shouldn't be allowed to watch movies, then talk about them. -
I saw this movie last night and man was it fun! It was the perfect comic book movie. The crowd cheering lots of times, including when seeing Stan, Lou and TS at the end.
A couple of criticisms: Tim Roth looked funny and out of place in uniform, kind of like a crazy uncle after an Army/Navy store shopping spree. Another is that although I think William Hurt is a fantastic actor, I didn't quite like his General Ross, and in my opinion Sam Elliott nailed the Ross character in Ang Lee's Hulk.
Other than that, HULK SMASH!! -
from Capone's review: "For those wanting to see the coolness of how Marvel is establishing its film universe, THE INCREDIBLE HULK is a must-see. But for those of you that just don't care, you can probably skip this one."
Wow. Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm not sure if I'm as negative on this movie as him or not, but I did have a distinct "blah" feeling, and despite the big green guy looking a lot better than the previous effort (action sequences are all in low light), that's really about it. otherwise, it's just nice to see the universe forming up. and to be honest, I'm not sure it's worth $10 for about 2 minutes (total) of information about captain america and the avengers.
also, unlike IRON MAN, this movie didn't seem to follow very closely the recent animated AVENGERS movies; banner's character and motivations felt much different. plus, the way he already handles himself as the Hulk kinda eliminates the possibility of a similar relationship with the avengers that he has in the animated movies. -
Your name is appropriate. When you use the term "children's books" I assume you're referring to comic books. You're a cock master. Go suck one. Louis Leterrier, if you're reading this page you did a great job. HULK rules. The crowd I saw this with at midnight was roaring. I'm sure it'll make money and I can't wait for The Incredible Hulk 2!!! I'm gonna go check out Transporter now. I've never seen it.
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Jun 14, 2008 2:31:15 PM CDT
Lee's HULK action scenes were all in "low light," Dinky?
by theghostwholurks
You must've missed the extended fight sequences through the desert all the way to San Francisco, which were all shown in broad daylight!And unlike in the NEW Hulk film, Ang Lee's version DIDN'T look like a PS3 commercial. It actually looked like real flesh and blood reacting to light and it's surroundings convincingly. So even in the CGI department, this new Hulk movie is sorely lacking.I'd compare this film to Daredevil. HOPEFULLY, when the Director's Cut comes out, like Daredevil, the film will be MUCH improved. As it is, it's pretty simple-minded stuff, which might explain why so many fanboys love it... it doesn't require much effort on their part. Just "HULK SMASH!" :P
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I have no idea what people are thinking. Yes Norton was better as Bruce. But Ang Lee's hulk was better overall.
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His practically ALL CAPS posting shows exactly whom this film is marketed towards.
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...i can proclaim the Incredible Hulk was a damn good picture. Yes, the plot was somewhat thin, Norton was right to try and fight for a different cut, but the film was still strong. The CGI worked just fine as i believed the Hulk was actually physically present with the actors. My only other gripe other than wishing more of the human drama was kept in the picture is that the Hulk maybe had three lines in the movie. I didn't need the Hulk to monologue, but a couple of "leave Hulk alones" or "Hulk hate Banners" would have done nicely. As the end of the movie implies Banner is gaining some control over the change so maybe Hulk will talk more in the sequel.
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But I'm willing to bet most people would say the comic book Hulk of the 80s/90s during the John Byrne/Peter David run was superior to the dumb "Hulk Smash" version of the 1970s.Having the Hulk break things is fine, but having a smart storyline to base that on is what separates a great film from simply an okay movie.The new Hulk is merely "okay," both due to a weak, simplistic storyline and sub-par CGI, when compared to Ang Lee's version.
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Good Time at the theatre. Haven't heard a crowd actually cheer for a while. I think Gale Anne Hurd likened Ang Lee's Hulk to a One shot, while this feels like...well, a comic book as a movie. This kind of action is how I'd always envisioned, say, a berzerker rage, or sonic blasts. The Sound Pulse weapons were pure comic book style action...futuristic technology, but not really the future, more of an alternate reality...These movies can co-exist...new Hulk and Ang Lee's Hulk. Why not? I don't feel one has to be "better" than the other. I will say, though, that seeing this at the Arclight Dome with a loud crowd was pretty BAD ASS.That was last night, and I'm ready to see it again. HULK SMASH!!!
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question whether Capone has seen this movie or simply just read the screenplay. Furthermore, to state, and I quote, "isn't exactly a sequel and isn't exactly a reboot of Ang Lee's perfectly fine 2003 effort" makes me wonder if he even saw that train wreck of a movie in 2003. Not only was Ang Lee's movie SO FAR from being "perfectly fine" but this new movie IS a complete and total reboot. If Capone had actually taken the time to see this movie he would have realized this within the first 5 minutes of the new movie.
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Who was the hottie that worked with Banner at the bottling factory? Talk about Incredible! Liv was hot but the Brazilian chick was Spicy! Anyone know the actress?
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This hulk looked better. More detail, reminiscent of Sal Buscema's art. The story got to the point, not some convoluted bullshit about daddy's life and mutant dogs. The nods to the Tv show were very cool and the action was much more property-destruction than Ang Lee's. General Ross moved from unsympathetic to more understanding when events unfold, not flip-flopping as in the hulk. This movie was flawed, but not terribly so. I liked it, although I feel Iron Man was indeed a superior story and movie. The ending fight was a letdown to me in that there was too much use of the environment (objects) vs just punching between hulk and Blonsky. There were a number of fan/crowd pleasing moments and people should see this movie and absolutely forget Capone's suggestion, it's absurd. If you like the character, the tv series or action/sci fi it's well worth seeing on the big screen.
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don't have access to imdb.com or something? Anyway : http://tinyurl.com/5q6p6g
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Leterrier's comments about Lee's Hulk fit exactly my sentiment. It was like a one-shot by a guest writer/artist. Whereas this one is Incredible Hulk, the comic series. Both can exist and both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are entertaining in their own ways. If you've read enough Hulk comics, you'll know how vastly different certain runs of the series are. In comparison to Iron Man, the tone is totally different (think of the difference between Norton and Downey Jr.), and Iron Man definitely dealt with more complex issues, but that's mainly because we've seen Hulk's premise before, and we take it more for granted: It's a reworking of Frankenstein, Beauty and the Beast, Jeckyll and Hyde, and other classic stories, whereas Iron Man is a little more unique (maybe Man in the Iron Mask is an influence?). However, I do think the final battle in IH is a more interesting fight than IM, both in how it's done and what it's about. In Iron Man it was there because it was required, but with Hulk there was a thematic reason for it that grew organically out of the story.
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Norton was sleepwalking through this film. Steve Buscemi would have elevated this film. They made a bad call there. Liv Tyler is a really bad actress--and not really that attractive. The CG was just a notch above SCI-FI Channel greats like "Aztec Rex." It was worth my five-buck ticket, not much more.
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and if you dont agree, you can suck a fart out my shite pipe.
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Enjoyed Speed Racer more but thought that The Incredible Hulk was slightly better than Iron Man. Still, Marvel are two for two at this point. That said I do think that The Avengers movie will be somewhat ridiculous. They've gone to all this trouble to make Iron Man and Hulk sort of believable in terms of them kind of existing in our world and then they're going to stick a God in human form into the mix. Picture RDJ's Tony Stark meeting Thor and it does seem a bit laughable. It works in the comics but in a film I'm of the opinion that it might seem shit.
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I am not a fan of Liv. I never found her attractive (those teeth!). She isn't 1/50th the actress (or as hot as) Jennifer Connoly. Norton is a great actor, and I think he did a fine job. Buscemi would have made Banner too much of a jokey/eccentric character. He also doesn't really have leading man looks for the part, he's more of a character. He's a great psycho or goof ball, granted. Comparing the two on the level, I liked iron man 10/10 where hulk was 8.5/10. I just liked the characters in IM better, and the way the story unfolded.
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I agree. I know a kid who'd LOVE this movie, but, (and here's the problem), Quote:
"why don't you go see it in the theatre?" "I don't know...I saw the FIRST one, and it was BORING..."
oh, and Debora Nascimento...jeez, I'm only human... -
Look... Iron Man wasn't THAT great, but it had the advantage of being original. Nobody's ever made a film quite like it before; combining these elements (hi-tech, hi-roller, hi-finance, superhero)! And it was solid in direction and cast.
This movie needed to make you forget a film that came out, like 5 years ago! That's a tough job. And for the most part, Incredible Hulk succeeds admirably. It's fast-paced, action-packed and pretty entertaining. Is it going to be the "best film of the Summer"? NO. But it perfectly achieves it's objective of giving us a Marvel Universe film that doesn't suck. It's a pretty good popcorn movie and that's all this re-launch needs to be. And I'm glad. I hope it makes money and moves this concept of a unified Marvel Film Universe forward.
You have to give credit to the direction here... and Norton is 'dead-on' casting. Way better performance than Bana; frankly Bana's performance could have made the Lee film a lot more palatable, but he just never rose above the character and the fact that he was WAY miscast. Norton is strong and watchable and Roth is always great. (Though, I honestly found Sam Elliot better than Bill Hurt, who looked like a guy wearing a "Bill Hurt mask" and showed about as much depth.)
The Hulk himself looked just as fake as he did in the last film, which is to say he looked as fake as Golum and Spider-man. But I got over it.
Let's face it, people: CGI fx look fake.. the technology isn't quite there yet. So let's get past that and just enjoy the fun. And there is lots of it in The Incredible Hulk.
Just don't expect TOO much.
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I thought this place would be swamped with reactions and discussion. Surprising. The flick was pretty solid. The problem is you paid to see Hulk smash, that's what you're waiting for, so "plot" scenes, if there are too many in a row, can get you antsy. There were some moments like that today. As in the first movie, some of the Hulk shots are breathtaking, others completely unconvincing. But the Abomination looked cool to me, and got a reasonably kickass smackdown with Hulk. Would of liked more pummeling with large objects and less dangling from helicopters, but fun anyway. Oh yeah BIG SPOILER did I hallucinate, or was the Abomination left alive at the end? Hulk chokes him out with a big-ass chain, then tosses his body at General Ross. But he's clearly breathing, and not dead. The ending of this flick was really abrupt, saved only by the classic Tony Stark cameo. In a world where we all agree on so little, I think we can reach consensus that Hulk pummeling Abomination into the pavement with police car boxing gloves was the classic moment of the movie. The "sonic weapon" thing was also a surprise, and pretty sweet. Good times.
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1. I don't get the feeling Banner chose Brazil, I get the feeling he woke up there, like just about everywhere else he has lived since going gamma.2. Who hasn't had their mind turned to mush over a woman?
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Would get his fucking clavicle ripped out and stabbed into its' dumb, boring thorax. This was the fuckin' Hulk. He punched a fucking guy's head into the pavement...and KEPT PUNCHING. He fucking said 'HULK SMASH'. Enough for me, at any rate.Okay, Capone...Banner's an idiot. He's been on the run, living in the third world, trying desperately to live a semi-normal life, knowing that at any moment it's all gonna come tumbling down. That waiting for him out there is a fucker who would be happy knowing Banner was dead and the Hulk was a weapon. Knowing that any relationships he makes are doomed for failure, because Hulk is right there when he loses control.So, when he gets back to his old stomping grounds, he acts rashly, seeing fucking daylight after a long time of waking up in odd places at square fucking zero, with each semblance of normalcy stripped from him. There's a metaphor at work here that was mighty subtle, like a guy who's in fuckin' prison for years, sees his chance to get out, no matter how slim, and goes for it.It's the only love of Banner's life, and he's greedy for the time he'll get to spend with Betty Ross, because he doesn't know if it will EVER happen again. Also, dunno if you paid any attention, but the dude from Night of the Living Dead called the cops, because he saw Banner too at the pizzeria. Fuck, it's subtle, but there, at any rate, as an explanation. The government was gonna swarm him the moment he left the house anyways.And as a final note, when Sterns is saying 'We started with mice, but it just fried them, so we went to something larger--' I was HOPING TO GOD that they were going to show those faggy, stupid Hulk dogs dead as dogshit laying in cages with names like 'Bad Idea' and 'Fucking Dumb'.Good movie if you're a Hulk fan, and pretty badass action--Not better than Iron Man, and I believe I will be blown away by Dark Knight--but it was WAAAAY more satisfying than Ang Lee's BrokeHulk Mountain.
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... Did you read the interview? Tim said that he signed a three picture deal and there was some mention of the Red Hulk... I'd really like to know which shots of the Incredible Hulk were breathtaking. For me anytime time they showed him from the neck it was horrible. I'm going to get really nit picky but CGI hair hasn't looked that bad since before Pixar did Monsters Inc. I thought that I was watching Reboot much of the time. They could have hid a lot if they had just got that right I think.
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Incredible Hulk has more of the Hulk mythos in it than Lee's overly-talky nonsense. 1. Hulk gets stronger as he gets madder -- As shown in the fight with the Abomination. 2. Hulk, in the beginning was a savage, mindless, creature, who could not be reasoned with, and eventually became a personality separate from Banner--leading into the Peter David awesome stories. Savage Hulk is the genesis, and World War Hulk is the apocalypse. It's not hard to see the ARC of this Hulk, but you DO have to look.3. Banner is smart, but not Reed Richards smart or even Samuel Sterns smart...This was good! And it blended the TV Show origin with the Ang Lee movie origin somewhat. A smart, but not genius level scientist gets fucked up, and does what he can to get himself better.Ang Lee's movie was a baffling failure. How much is it on DVD now over on Amazon? Like fifty cents...And which flick's gonna get to Blu Ray first? Sorry True Be-Lee-vers, The Incredible Hulk has more juice on that score as well.You don't like this flick? It's one of two things: You had a preconcieved notion of what the Hulk should be, and fell into the shitty CGI Hulk from 03 as your refuge. Defending the bizarre mess with a strange sense of dignity, tut-tutting at the rest of us who wanted, you know, some fuckin' Hulk in their Hulk movie.Or, you've not seen this yet.The CGI looks like what you'd expect as a first outing from a studio that is running on a fairly tight budget when it comes to 2nd AD stuff. Not surprising, but you have to watch the fucking fight scenes. And Hulk is strong as fuck in this. I mean, ripping cars in half by throwing shit through them...And that chest-kick from the fuckin' trailer? OH FUCK. It's SO much better in the movie. That said, I can't WAIT to see the DVD version...Hopefully we'll see Norton's cut of it....and meanwhile, you guys can keep harping on about how 'intellectually satisfying' Ang Lee's Hulk was. But there's one thing Lee's Hulk ain't...That's the real fucking Hulk.
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Jun 15, 2008 1:29:28 AM CDT
The HULK kicking Tim Roth in the chest is AWESOME???
by theghostwholurks
Try "stupid." A 9-foot tall Hulk kicking a 5'7" loudmouth in the chest is BEYOND lame. Now maybe if he'd STEPPED on him or tossed him into orbit, that might be considered "awesome."The fact that you found it so impressive that Hulk beat-up this pipsqueak kinda tells me how easily impressed you guys are by the goofiest things.
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All ithat line did was make me think of Frank Spencer (brits will get the joke)
But fuck me if that wasnt a brutal fight at the end- I love how the rage almost overtook Hulk and only BET--TY could stop him -
To answer your question I've not read The Ultimates and in fact I've not read many comics full stop. I do have a basic knowledge of the character's back stories and so on but in all honesty I actually just assumed that the stuff I'm talking about worked in the comics because so many folks are really excited by the upcoming film. I had a look at the plot summaries for The Ultimates series and whilst initially intrigued/pleased by the 'Thor's mentally-ill and actually part of the Euro Super-Soldier Program' angle it does seem that they end up establishing that he really is a God and having him go up against his half-brother Loki who has summoned an army of inter-dimensional beings. And given that I just can't see it working too well. Thor's story doesn't really fit into what we've seen thus far. I'm sorry if I'm not being especially clear on this but it's difficult to explain in a way. Thor's story is a different kind of fantasy. Thor coming into these films basically says that in this filmic Universe Norse Gods are real. And that just seems a bit crap to me. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just really stating a sort of concern I've got. I could be proven spectacularly wrong.
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The Takeaway, a new national public radio morning show and website, is looking for people to contribute audio comments about The Incredible Hulk to air on Monday's show!
It's very easy to do, but the deadline in coming up: Sunday (June 15th) at 3 p.m. Eastern time.
You just call a phone number, leave your name and website (for a link back), then either read a sound bite from what you've already written on this board, or fill in the blank "The Incredible Hulk was __________", or talk about one other thing that stuck out for you. It will all be combined to create a collaborative review!
More information and tips for making it to the air at http://tinyurl.com/66p735 -
Well, it was a satisfying crunch.
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I did not read the interview; thanks for the info. How the hell is this supposed to work? Is Roth supposed to be in the Avengers movie, too? That project sounds insane already. I thought the shot of Hulk after he changes and leaps through the glass and onto the lawn was great. He paused and flexed, and it looked like rippling real muscle to me. And when he sat down with Betty in the cave, the rain water pouring down his arms totally sold the illusion that he was soaked. The screaming at the lightning may have been pointless, but it looked pretty cool. Maybe breathtaking is a bit much. You're right; the face closeups were the most cartoonish. And the final battle was not all that different from the big-CGI-beasts-rolling-around stuff we've seen before. But the Abomination was much bigger than I thought he'd be, and looked cool. I haven't read any Hulk comics, but can understand fans not liking the changes. Red Hulk? I'm not even gonna ask. Blonski getting booted into a tree got a big reaction from the audience, but they exploded when they saw him in the hospital, basically turned into human pulp.
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...actors seemed capable of moments that just weren't fully realized. It seemed truncated in spots, and the timing of the personal moments felt off, as if the director didn't know the actors were trying to give him something. That said, my kids, who took me for dad's day, loved it. Though not anywhere near as much as iron man.
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this one alone has me jazzed to the gills. holy fuckin' shit. http://tinyurl.com/4hjsvh better catch up, AICN
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Meh. Action was pretty good, Though they filmed it all at night to save on CGI and made it hard to follow. But otherwise, fairly boring and rehash-y. But I like that it still works as a loose sequel to the 2003 film. (the 2003 film ended with Hulk fleeing to south america, where we find him in this one. Ross says Banner has been on the run for 5 years, which is how long it's been since the last one.) As long as I can see it as "Hulk 2", I'm okay with it, but not thrilled. If they insist that this was "Hulk 1, again" then it was a total waste because it wasn't any better than the last one, and was definitely shallower.
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Is out of their fucking minds, just easily lead by the last thing they saw. Tony was an interesting lead, more so than Iron Man was. Banner was just a big "blah," (which I will admit is kind of necessary given the gimmick of the character) but still boring as hell to watch. I have no plans to watch the full Incredible Hulk ever again, it's just a more boring version of the fugitive. The Hulk scenes may be worth the price of the DVD, but that's it. Iron Man, despite it's faults, holds together MUCH BETTER as a film.
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watched it loved it. a perfect comic book movie
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This is the direction the Hulk should go. Much better than the Ang Lee shitfest. That's really impressive that this movie still managed over 50 Million when most of the public perceived it as a sequel to the shitty 2003 version. I think good word of mouth, weak competition, and good reviews will give it legs and carry this baby to a hit. HULK SMASH puny panda
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Tsk. Yeah, man. I BET you wish Ang Lee would poke SOMETHIN'. :)Just kiddin'. Hey, I never once say something is gonna be everyone's cup o' tea, but I will say this; guys who drink some beer, go fishing once in a while, and don't take all this bullshit so fucking seriously will really dig this flick. And that's all this is, is an entertaining flick.Batman, if that is really you, you're smart enough to know what heroic sacrifice is, right? Either that or GASP!! You're PRETENDING TO BE BATMAN ON THE INTERNET! For shame.Just got done reading my buddy's copies of World War Hulk...there's some far out shit in that series..but seriously, the best Hulk issues have one thing in common...five pages in a row of nothing but action and sound effects. Sorry that sort of testosterone fueled action bores you, Mozart, go watch Ang Lee's version again if it miffs you so terribly. And in the fuckin' 60s EVERYONE got powers from radiation. In fact, they make a joke about just that thing in the Ultimates comics. (I know, they're raping your childhood--blah,blah,blah...) They too are pretty good for funny books, and have some great humor...They're also influencing the way the Marvel movies are going, so, suck it up ladies...and you, Batman.Ghost Who Lurks...are you pissed because you thought your handle would be fuckin' PRIME internet real estate before the SHITTY Phantom movie came out? ;)The reason the chest kick for me was AWESOME was spoken above, but unless you didn't see the movie, or were too busy jotting down pissy hate for this flick in your 'Emily the Strange' slambook to notice; Roth was hepped up on the serum. And Hulk fucking CHESTKICKS that asshole and leaves him a fucking bag of blood with kibble for bones laying against a tree. That shit is AWESOME!!!111 Yeah, the 1s are there for comedic effect. Just kidding about you havin' a slambook, just making a point.Lighten up, Francis. It's just a stupid action movie. Oh, and Ang Lee's flick was for gays, ladies, and gay ladies with too much time on their hands.Gotcha! (Ducking flaming spears from the Lee fans)
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Hey smart-mouth. The weekend box office ain't in yet. It's Sunday. Nice try. 54 mil in one day? That's pretty damned nice.
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As X-Men and Ghost Rider did...and was MUCH more than either Marvel or Universal were expecting. So, not bad.130 mil pricetag? So it makes a third of the budget back in the first weekend. It sticks around until DKR, it makes its budget back and soaks in the gravy of DVD sales. This is a success, any way you slice it. And the people most enthusiastic? Real fucking Hulk fans.
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Because I had no idea what a "slambook" was until I googled it.And I'll be SHOCKED if The Incredible Hulk manages to make more money than even Superman Returns, because word-of-mouth will NOT make people go see this film in the coming weeks. Most people I know rejected seeing it outright, once they saw the previews. And even comic geeks are split on the quality of the finished film, unlike with IRON MAN.I predict the next (and possibly LAST) time you see the Hulk will be in the AVENGERS film in 2011. I doubt there'll be a sequel to this, despite the Leader and Doc Samson set up.
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It's for the entire weekend. IRON MAN, on the other hand, grossed almost TWICE that amount opening weekend.
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As I no doubt will be able to do so in the future...Hey Ghost, you mention above that a scientist wouldn't be so fuckin' dumb as to experiment on himself, he'd use animals. Thing is, Banner says that he did all the trials, and everything looked like it was ready to go. It was supposed to be a minor thing, and turned out to fuck the guy's life up. David Banner in Ang Lee's flick didn't just experiment on faggy poodles, he experimented on his own kid. Yeah, pretty fuckin' dumb.Don't talk about Ang Lee...You wouldn't like me when you talk about Ang Lee. It's funny, because it's like that thing that Bruce Banner says, AND it's making fun of the fact that Ang Lee is Chinese! It works on so many levels. Hulk laugh lots. HAR HAR!
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I'd make a friendly bet with you. If Hulk gets a sequel, you have to end every one of your posts with 'Oh yeah, and MicturatingBenjamin is the fucking man.' If it doesn't, I'll admit that it didn't do as well as Ang Lee's flick. Deal?
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The Hulk ain't nearly as popular a title as Iron Man or Spider-Man, he's just the second most recognized character in the Marvel Universe. Just sayin'...also, you have to admit the stank of the Ang Lee flick has to have hurt the opening weekend of this more than any fucking trailers could have.
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I think Bruce Banner's supposed to be a LITTLE saner than his father David, who ended up in a INSANE ASYLUM for his crazy self-experimentation.That's why I said no SANE scientist would do it and why it makes no sense to portray Bruce Banner as being so foolish and reckless in the new movie. It just makes him look like a crazy idiot.Oh, and the joke is "Don't make me Ang Lee..." It's funnier if you get it right. ;)
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...Before this summer, with the long-running 1970s TV series and numerous cartoons of the character over the years.The HULK should be money in the bank for Marvel and the fact that IRON MAN has such strong box-office returns with almost zero recognition to the general public beforehand, is testament to how well-made it was, both story- and action-wise.And blaming Ang Lee's film for hurting the new Hulk movie is ridiculous. Batman Begins wasn't hurt at all by the previous crappy Batman films that preceded it. People just wanted to see a GOOD Batman movie.In general, the public wants quality films and will reject movies that they see as a waste of their time and money, regardless of how famous the characters are.
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I know. It's been said before, but it's a good line and it fits.
This version was The Hulk. This wasn't the shitty Ang Lee abortion, and it wasn't Bana's awful fucking performance, either. This movie kicked ass on many levels, which is what a Hulk movie should do. Hulk is not supposed to be a deep, psychological tear-jerker wankfest. It's supposed to be an action-packed bag of SMASH, and this is that and then some.
This plays out like "The Bourne Identity" crossed with "Dr. Jeckyl & Mr. Hyde." While not superior to Iron Man (that's a high mark to hit) it's still LEAGUES better than Spider-Man 3, Ang Lee's Hulk, or the Fantastic Four flicks.
I loved all the Marvel nods. I loved that they threw The Leader in there. I loved that we got a glimpse of what Captain America might be like in action. I love that this Hulk was the SUPERHERO Hulk, not the "only abnormal human in the universe fighting my inner demons" Hulk of other endeavors. This Hulk evolved. He fought more or less on the good side by the end. He said "Hulk SMASH!" which is what he's supposed to say. He fought, moved, and acted like the Hulk. He got stronger as he got madder. This was what Hulk movies should be like - - With one exception.
That CGI needs to improve. I'll give the naysayers that point. It was good, but not great. It looked OK, but it wasn't "blended" with the rest of the surroundings. I didn't always believe the Hulk was there, or real, like I did with Iron Man or Gollum. If they blow a little more on CGI (or fucking hire WETA) they'll have something better by Avengers.
Hulk looked right, but he also looked a bit too much like plastic sometimes.
But that's a minor quibble. I accepted model battleships glued together to make a Death Star. I accepted a puppet to make King Kong. I accepted a Man In Suit to perform Godzilla. I accepted matte lines on Hoth. I can deal with a CGI Hulk, because basically, you can't make this character with an actor in a suit, or painted green. You can't make a believable puppet, either. So I suspend my disbelief, like a good movie-goer should.
And I have faith that as the budget improves, so to will the effects from Marvel films.
Capone and the other Ang Lee fanatics are sounding like Whedonites right about now. Their devotion to their favorite director is clouding their judgment, and overriding the fact that THIS Hulk is the one from the comic books (and the TV show) while Ang Lee's Hulk was almost purely out of Ang Lee's mind. -
I thought this movie note for note was perfect: Ed Norton, the CGI Hulk, Banner on the run, Banner's battle for self-control, the action sequences, the villian, the piano based score, etc. I think many people were turned off by Ang Lee's take on the Hulk and will sit this out. Let me tell you, this is nothing like Ang Lee's picture. There are no Hulk Poodles, no Corey Feldman looking Hulks, and no drunk ass Nick Noltes. If you were a fan of the TV series or a fan of Marvel Comics I would urge you to go see this one.
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a movie that opens at 50-60 Mil tends to end up with about $140-150 Mil domestically. That's about 20 million over what it cost to make this shit. And that's not even counting the international market (which the film is also doing well in) and the HUGE merchandise success (kids don't even remember Ang Lee's Hulk and are gobbling up the toys and shit. Then there is a little thing called DVD. Batman Begins opened at $45 Mil and made over $200 Mil because of word of mouth and people telling others "This isn't the same Schumacher crapfest of the 90s." So this movie is already more than a hit... especially as word spreads this is not a mere sequel to the Ang version. Bring on TDK
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Comics-based movies have now consistently shown to be able to be made well. We now have 3 and maybe 4 that are "good". This HULK movie is very good, thanks the the use of one of the finest male actors today, Norton. Liv Tyler...hmmm... is she Arwen cause she sounds the same !!! LOL she actually is pretty good. And the graphics are sooo much better than Lee's disaster of a few years ago. Good script + good actors, last version only had one.
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Batman Begins opened to less money than Sex and the City!
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"The Incredible Hulk" smashes box officeMonday Movie buzz:Hulk silly, but still connects'Hulk' grabs muscular $54.5M on opening weekendIncredible Hulk Smashes Past
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who hated hulk as a comic book character. hes not interesting and i just dont want to be him.
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Interesting that Norton gravitated to both. Btw, the movie was great.
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I was much more involved in his story / motivation / development than Banner's actually. Blonksy is a cool villain character (was he really the villian? He was just trying to do his appointed job -- bringing down the HULK). Roth did a great job. Hope they bring him back for part 2.
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It was pretty good! and i've never been a hulk fan before. i din't like the trailers and pretty much rolled my eyes and thought 'great another cgi shitfest' but norton and roth are such good actors that you really get drawn in and believe they are the cgi monsters. it probably won't do too well at first because of the last hulk movie. i had no plans of watching it actually, but i read some bad reviews of the happening and decided on hulk instead and boy am i glad i watched it. i enjoyed it more than iron man. HULK SMASH!!!
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aside from Gamma Rays, Bronsky was loaded with super-soldier serum plus having spent years in special forces he would have know all kind of badass killing techniques that the Banner Hulk would not. The Banner Hulk didn't even seen to remember his akido.
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Connection. PCU. You think they started talking about these movies back then?
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Was like 4-5 scenes in the trailers that were not in the movie? Whats that all about. It unlike movies for them to show scenes not in the movie in the trailers.
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I used to look forward to reading Capone's stuff, especially after having gotten the chance to meet him at Flashback Weekend a couple of years ago. But it seems as though ever since his roof caved in he has gotten more and more bitter. This is one of a series of reviews over the past year where I just can't see where he is coming from. Used to see pretty much eye to eye with the guy. Now... not so much. Sorry to say I will be skipping out on his future reviews as all they end up doing is pissing me off. Though... not as much as ANYTHING posted by Merrick. That fucking guy needs to be fired ASAP. Sad that it seems he is the one keeping things going on the site nowadays.
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I went to see this tripe over the weekend and what a mess it is. There is absolutely no cohesive story in this movie and no point. Everyone including the Hulk himself starts calling him Hulk and there's no explanation for it. That's just one minor flaw in a movie full of them. Totally disappointing.
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Didn't you see the part where the Hulk comes in and says "Hello. Me Hulk. Well, actually, I AM the Hulk, that is my NAME is John Q. Hulk. But I am ALSO a hulking mass of rage, ironically. I do prefer to be called HULK, but "the" Hulk will do just fine as well."
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so i watched this bourne movie everyone keeps comparing the incredible hulk to yesterday. it was rubbish, totally forgettable, disposable, as if the filmmakers had decided to create an atmosphere and mood of plastic without actually showing you a piece of plastic for 85, 95 minutes. i will not be seeing this hulk movie. i nearly walked out of ang lee's but it is clear that it is more interesting even in failure than this compost.
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Not great cinema, but a fun superhero movie Marvel can be proud of. Norton was as good as he could have been as Banner. Although I had problems with the character wanted to "get rid of it (the Hulk inside him)" simply because Ross wanted to use it as a weapon. It was never really made clear whether Banner the scientist, the man, had any use at all for his condition. We only got the noble side of it--he's on the run to prevent his condition from becoming a weapon, and he also wants to be normal again so he can resume screwing his cute girlfriend. But c'mon, what guy wouldn't find something to enjoy about being THAT powerful?
All the references to SHIELD, supersoldier serum, Nick Fury, Stark Industries, and Stark himself were great. -
When Hulk kicks Roth, he's not kicking a normal 5'7 man. If you haven't seen the movie yet, there's stuff you don't know about Blonsky and his abilities.
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you're right. The one that immediately comes to mind is Banner talking with the shrink ("...not like this"), which didn't make the final version.
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Jun 16, 2008 9:01:54 AM CDT
Capone - It is called the Incredible Hulk, not the Boring Banner
by toadkillerdog
I do not dismiss Lee's effort, I can appreciate what he did and was trying to do. And just because you have a superhero movie, it does not mean you must sacrifice character development. However, what you can not sacrifice is action. What you can not have is a dumb or over talkative plot that inteferes with the action - because the sole purpose of making a superhero based movie is - say it with me, action adventure. Lee's movie was obviously made by a man with great talent, but he focused it on the wrong direction. This latest Hulk, while not approaching the stylistic acheivement of Lee, had a visceral impact. The audience said wow! Why? Because it delivered what a comic book movie is supposed to - action. Supernman: The movie (boring) Superman Returns (Deadly boring), were made by directors with epic hubris. For whatever reason, they ignored what a true action adventure movie should be, and grafted an over talkative, and boring plot that seemed to be ashamed of showing the man wearing the cape - which was why the audience came to see it in the first place. Lee did not go that far, but he came close with an over reliance on the father/son storyline, and the boring final fight. I enjoyed this latest Hulk movie because it delivered what I paid money to see- Action.
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why, dear god, why do black people have to talk to the movie? I was sitting in front of this guy, who yelled at Edward Noton when he cut his finger at the bottling plant..."AwwW shit, you better clean dat up playa or else you gonna get someone infested wit yo gamma blood" It was all downhill from there. "Oh shit...he done turning green!"
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This is a friendly warning- people have been banned for less than that post.
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I know why white people talk DURING the movie. Just curious why SOME black people talk AT the movie. Just trying to expand my knowledge...
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It was a very poor, and humorless attempt at stereotyping.
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Can someone holla back the answer?
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Heh, as if I'm someone who can clarify anything.
I think movie theater manners is something people either learn, or don't learn, along with anything else growing up. And we all know that people with poor manners can be black, white, any color or ethnicity. Etiquette does depend a lot on one's socioeconomic class, though, and I'm not so sure parents living in poverty spend a lot of time correcting their children when then yell at the TV or talk over programs at home. As a result, they take their outbursts to the movies as adults. You and I and our friends here were luckier, raised in semi-decent environments (I'm assuming) by parents who gave at least half a crap. So we know the polite thing to do is keep one's comments to oneself at the movies, or suffer pencil jihad. -
great answer.
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in addition to certain parents (low education, poor) not teaching their kids manners, they may in fact condition their kids with their own bad manners. I suppose that's why on all those Jerry Springer clips, you see all those yahoos jumping and yelling at everything. It's a show that plays to the audience NOT behaving. And so now you have demographic pockets and theaters in certain neighborhoods where, yes, not only is it NOT frowned upon to be noisy at the movies, it is generally acceptable to talk and make noise and try to engage the movie characters in conversation. I know where those theaters are in my town, and I don't go to them. Whereas with your typical white suburban punks with their cellphones and chatter, I occasionally find those in my neighborhood theatres, but not very often, fortunately.
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...what did you think of Hulk?
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It was well-paced and the acting was pretty good. The CGI was a bit much, but what else can you really do. The only issue with the movie was the enviornment. What about you?
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I disagree. I really did not want to wade into this because I found Braffed's post to be ignorant as well as stereotypical. But I know you better Abom, and I know you are not trying to be offensive. Have you ever been to a Black church? Have you ever been to a gathering of Blacks in relaxed social environmenst? Have you ever been to Black live Theatre? I have to all of the above, and I can tell you that it can be a cultural thing to 'speak' to the performers. Certainly not all Blacks do this, as not all of any race does anything. Races are not monolithic - which is why I did not like what Braffed implied in his post, and why I feel the need to correct your post. The call and answer, is part of some Black culture. It has nothing to do with 'living in poverty' or any economic condition. But it has to do with the Church and with the traditon in live black theatre of 'answering' during a performance. Movies became similar in that for some. And it depends on where you see the movie, and what part of the country you see it in. Some people, regardless of color, find it just as annoying as the incessant talking during movies that some whites do. But the Black experience is derived more from culture than the lack of etiquette. However, as cultures mesh, we see a growing exchange of cultural etiquette. And an growing awareness about tolerance.
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Just curious and trying to get another perspective. If I was trying to be ignorant and sterotypical I would have asked why there are at least 5-7 asian people in Banana Republic at any given time during the day. geez
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it was peolpe talking in the cinema that gave the messiah cause for the first pencil jihad. As a changian Historian I pride myself on knowing these things. Braffed, I know you're trolling again- and I've seen your helpful input into the already stupid Spike Lee thread. Stop it.
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That's something I hadn't considered, a "culture" of "call-and-answer." Yes, I can see that being an influence. I don't see much of that in my part of town. But that begs the question, certainly people from a "call-and-answer" culture must have a self-awareness of that behavior, and surely they know that in general, it isn't acceptable, and shouldn't be done in a theater where people pay to see a movie without extraneous noise, and where indeed the screen tells you before hand to be keep quiet?
Conversely, I think teens who chat during the movie or use cell phones and stuff KNOW what they're doing is impolite. They simply choose to be impolite. Which I guess is to say they ARE aware of their behavior; they simply don't care. I'm just wondering if Braffed's play-by-play commentator was similarly aware of what he / she was doing. -
You were not just being curious. If that had been the case you simply would have asked the question, and not tried to be funny with your supposed quoting of black speech. Nor would your follow up post have said 'holla back'. You did just what you set out to accomplish: Using a racial stereotype to make a joke. It just was not a creative or funny joke.
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Did you see that Branecell got the ban hammer! Happy days!
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but I gotta leave and probably won't be back until tomorrow, true-believers.
The Stan Lee cameo was pretty good. The Ferrigno cameo was GREAT, and I'm glad they gave him a bigger part than in Lee's version. The Bixby cameo wasn't a big deal, just Banner noticing a TV clip. The other Marvel "universe" references were nice. It's cool to see a "universe" being made, whereas before (like with Spidey) it's never stated whether other heroes live in his world or not. -
The ending was over-played. I thought that it was about 10 minutes too long.
I thought that they were going to have the captain america cut scene on the web last week?
Jarv,
Not trolling. g-ride is a racist and I called him out on it. Out of all people, I thought you would see that. As for the other comments, I am curious. I am doing research and wanted to get some feedback. -
I'll go and reread it to check that, but I didn't think his posts were bigoted at all. And I do understand calling people out.
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What started it off was you questioning his race. I think he's wrong actually, and I think Lee's second statement was racist- there really is no way around that plantation comment. He should keep his mouth shut.
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Deal with some shitheels. Remember, Burt is watching you.
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Like I said, there is no monolithic cultural behavior, and what might be acceptable - if not exactly desirable in some communities, does not translate to others. Latin communities have similar issues - but they do not have the call and answer tradition. Without a doubt some people, black, white whatever, are just being rude. Some, just childish. And it annoys some blacks just as nuch as some whites.
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Do tell!
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it's in the obit thread. He was there and then "just like that, he was gone". Which is usually the sign of a banning. Although memories has returned after it happened to him.
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is absolutely refusing to watch this. Even when I told her it has Edward Norton in it. She keeps saying that we saw the first one and it was fucking awful, so why should this one be any good. And I keep telling her it is totally different. But she's not having it. I think she's still cross about Indy, to be honest.
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And I think I saw MNG or Doc saying something about how offensive Brane's post was - like that is new. But when I looked for what he posted, it was gone. Tell the estimable Mrs. jarv, that she will enjoy this flick as long as she likes seeing big green creatures pound on one another!
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Because that crap he pulled on the Hulk thread was insane. Although I must admit, the stream of conscious posting had it funny moments.
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This hulk was much more detailed, especially evident in muscle striations, eyes and teeth. The 2003 Wang Lee version didn't convey weight, nor did it look good enough like it was Banner transforming so it seemed disjointed from reality. Remember the pissed off Shrek comments? Ang Lee's hulk only appealed to the hard-core gotta-see hulk. I didn't hate everything about it, but it had flaws stacked on flaws (like Josh Lucas) and is at best, a C- compared to this movies A-.
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We have no disagreement on the disruption that it caused by people talking during a movie. And the cultural argument is also invalidated by the fact that it is common sense that if you are talking it is disrupting. But I find this statement of yours "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." To be offensive, in light of the fact that this particular line of disussion started when Braffed made an unfunny joke about Blacks doing this. So it stands to reason that your comment "that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." Is not aimed towards whites. So, when white people text message and talk on cell phones during a movie, does that mean white culture is just as ignorant?
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A few things...1)Braffed, you are wrong about your "question" not being racist. It was. Why do you revert back to that type of shit?2) While it's fucking great that Braneballs got axed, the little fucker will be back.3) I concur with anchorite, talking is a big fucking no-no during a movie.
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While not defending or deploring the Ang Lee version, I will say the CGI rendering of the Hulk in that movie was far superior to the latest Hulk. It was far more believable and less cartoony, than the current movie.
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It is well worth seeing. Not as good as Iron Man, but it delivers very good action. And if you are a Marvel fan, it is worth price of admission just for the references alone to the rest of the marvel universe (well almost worth it!)
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was an observation. I even said I know why white people do it. Trying to get another perspective. Don't try and pin that shit on me Pillow
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" I will say the CGI rendering of the Hulk in that movie was far superior to the latest Hulk. It was far more believable and less cartoony, than the current movie. "
You definately saw a different film than the rest of the planet. That is the polar opposite of reality. Ang Lee's hulk looked very fake (and jerky) by compare. -
Not at all. The one thing most of the 'planet' agreed on with regards to Ang Lee's movie, was that the Hulk looked very good. And the CGI was far superior than in this movie. Striations aside, it looked phony. CGI in Lee's movie had many, many more millions of dollars behind it, and it showed. Not sure which planet you saw the movie on though.
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Yup, I'm looking forward to it.Braffed, perhaps you didn't mean it as a racist remark, but that's how it came out. If you truly did not mean it, then I apologize.
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If BraneRobot is indeed gone, then the CoC must be on the look out for his next incarnation. He should be fairly easy to spot though. I wonder what he said to get banned?
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I'm sure you can send a shout to MNG or DocP in the zone and get further details...The CoC always stands at the guard against foul creatures such as Braneballs.
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Jun 16, 2008 1:24:52 PM CDT
I call bullshit when I read it Anchorite, and I am calling yours
by toadkillerdog
First of all I wrote the 'call and answer' analogy to explain why in SOME parts of Black culture, such as Churchs, and social gatherings and Black live theatre, it is customary and accepted practice. And how that carried over into the movie's - which are no more sacrosanct than Church and live theatre. let me stipulate that I do agree that it is very annoying when anyone of any race talks, or talks back to the movie. That is not in debate. But where I find your bullshit offensive is that I have read your posts in other TB's, and I know you are not the tolerant type. You come across as a bigoted sort - not as bad as BraneRobot, but then who is? However, because I have read your previous posts, and because by your own admission you read the 'call and answer' part of my post or Abom's response, then you MUST have read that is was about Blacks. So your denial that this statement of yours "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." is not aimed towards blacks, or other minorities, is blatantly a lie. Furthermore your last statement, pretty much sums up what you think about minorities. When referring to disruptions being bad regardless if they came from
"old white nuns as I would a group of young minority thugs" So, the whites are just old harmless nuns, but the minorities are 'thugs'? Yes, you are full of bullshit Anchorite. -
I just may send them a shout.
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Jun 16, 2008 1:26:45 PM CDT
Braffed, the reason black people talk during movies...
by theghostwholurks
Is simple. They're simply being inconsiderate and rude, like others who talk during movies.I've done it myself on many occasions and sometimes don't even realize it until it's already happened.The movies isn't a black church and it's not our living rooms, but it's hard for some people to "switch off" their automatic mouth reflexes and simply shut up and allow others in the theatre to enjoy a funny or exciting movie without injecting their own personal play-by-play commentary.I also blame too much MST3K.
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i was actually clapping during the movie cause it was so well done. this is the movie that comic book fans and fans of the hulk were looking to first time around and didnt get. great cast. norton did an outstanding job as always. i actually felt that roth was a wrong fit in this movie, don't get me wrong, he does a good effort, but i just felt there was a bit of a miscast there. loads of easter eggs to look for, and amazing effects. ( really i cant understnad those who felt the cgi was a bit dodgy. it wasnt, at no point did i think to myself thats an sfx effect out there.; the story went along at a great pace, the right amount of everything went into this movie and it shows. do yourself a favour and watch it
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it was nice and quiet maybe black people don't get up till later. It was a nice movie going experience, apart from they didn't have any cheese for the nachos
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Jun 16, 2008 2:05:24 PM CDT
Actually, Mr. X... at 11 am, black people are at church
by theghostwholurks
It usually lasts about 4 hours and we get out by 2 or 3pm to catch the afternoon showings. :)
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Jun 16, 2008 2:07:49 PM CDT
for those who are not at church.. proof about blacks @ the movie
by mr_x
http://tinyurl.com/6jz8dk
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But I am not buying it. One, I did not call you a racist or redneck. You implied I did so. I do not use that inflamatory type of description just willy nilly. I do think you are insensitive and a total jerk. Not just based upon these posts of yours, but on others. However, I shall stick to just this one. Once again, there is NO WAY that you could have read my post, and not have known that the 'call and answer' was about a minority culture, be it Black or Latino. And you put lie to your own argument saying you were only responding to my first post that you cut and pasted above, because in that post there is no explaination given for 'call and answer'. It just says call and answer tradition. So, unless you know about the Black Church 'call and answer' history - which if you did, that would mean you were fully aware of the cultural meaning, and thus you knew I was refering to blacks. Or, you were not aware of what 'call and answer' meant, because it was not explained in that post, so you had to have read the second post of mine that you cut and pasted, and in that one in CLEARLY says it is about the black community. Either way, you are lying. And why the last line you used about the white nuns and minority thugs is so insightful to your meaning is very simple. You say that color has nothing to do with it, but you stereotype the minorities as thugs. Why coudn't they simply be black teens, or latino teens, or even white teens who talk during a movie. Why did they have to be minority thugs? I did not call you a racist. You did that yourself. And I am hardly trying my damndest to prove anything with you. It was very easy to demonstrate by your own words, and very, very simple logic the liar you are. Racist? I would not go that far. But you are a jerk who got caught and called on his bullshit.
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relax and lets talk this over a 40!
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you are really way off base here.
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Jun 16, 2008 3:12:18 PM CDT
i think that there is one sterotype that we all can agree on...
by braffed
white people LOVE Bob Saget and Cherrios.
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It becomes quite obvious, that you are either BSB, glovedone, or all three. Would be a shame if you are BSB, but stranger things have happened.
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Never understood that, myself... >:PAnd Rappin Duke loves weak CGI!
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round 1 goes to ang lee's HULK.....this one made less opening weekend money than the original....so much for the reboot , i just have to laugh !!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Well, after reading all of the comments here, I had to create an account just to throw my 2 cents in.
People that talk during movies deserve to be punched in the face. STFU and watch the damn movie! I've sat near assholes of every size, shape, and color. It certainly isn't just black people. Unfortunately, in my area, it's mostly them.
Lastly, before anyone calls me racist, let me point out that my roommate and one of my best friends is black. Oh yeah, he hates that shit too! -
I had the worst experience I've ever had seeing Hulk on Friday night. This black lady sitting 2 seats down from me talked to the screen the ENTIRE movie. "You go Hulk! Way to protect Betty Hulk! Bring it on Abomination!" When she wasn't talking to the screen, she was talking to her 2 annoying kids that wouldn't shut up either, explaining EVERY little obvious detail of what was going on! Jesus Christ, shut the f*ck up already!!!! If it wasn't for her giant husband sitting 5 seats down, I would have said so to her face.
Before anyone calls me racist, please know that my roommate and best friend is black. By the way, he bitches about black people talking during movies too! ;) -
too many black people talking during movies.
word -
Talking during films and sleeping with your women make us feel a little better about it. ;)
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On whysoserious. Check it out.
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whysoserious.com/myhero
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Capone, you really do yourself a dis-service with such a statement. Maybe you know Ang Lee, and thats all I can deduce from your praise of his mind blowingly trashy attempt. There was something really wrong with HULK. I could write half a book on what i think was wrong with it, but it would be merely stateing the obvious. Everyone knows HULK was a smasing pile of shit. It's one of those films that angered me when I saw it. I tried to watch it on late night TV - THAT THERE is enough to show that it was a universally dispised film. I've yet to meet anyone in thewaking world who enjoyed it, or even pretentiously convinced themselves it was good. Now, The incredible Hulk.... THIS was a top flick. A top flick!! No arguments at all. the action, the love story, the chase, ALL perfectly balanced and CAPONE I'm a little surprised at you for even writing such a review which favours more the Ang Lee and in an all too subtle way bashes this film. What gives big guy?
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The both looks cartoony. But at least this hulk has some life in him. the last hulk was much greener and his eyes were dead. This hulk actually felt like an extension of the character Norton was playing!
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in the call girl thread. He's sharing wise words about prostitutes
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Fucking great! Loved your answer. That is the kind of jab that gets me going faster than a cup of coffee! Thanks!
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But I fear too little, too late for our savior to respond to my words...
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2true is an expert on the evils of prostitution. His time as a pimp with the most feared punishment in the red light districts around the world give him unique insight.
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benign and merciful god, pillows. Rather he is an angry and vengeful god. Many are called but few are chosen to be warciples. We are 2truly blessed.
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The wind, the trees, whores...Saviors come in many different types...ours is a crazy pencil stabbing muthafucker.
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You do indeed follow an angry, unresponsive 'God'. Sort of like Crom.
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2for2true CAN laugh at the Four Winds....and stab them with his #2 pencil.
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I actually don't mind people talking if it's prompted by their enjoyment of the film, especially if it's a big summer blockbuster type of deal. A bit of audience noise and that can add to the experience and make it more enjoyable.What I don't like, however, is idiots. Generally, I don't like them, but I really can't stand them when they sit in cinemas and ask each other questions about what's happening and who's the bad guy and why did she just do that. It's annoying. These people are annoying. It's bad enough that they're clogging up shop doorways all over the country as they stop on their way out and ponder where they might like to go next, but please can we institute some sort of mandatory IQ test at cinema entrances?
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You have to reach a zen like oneness with your inner rage to be able to do that.
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one of the joys of cinema in the UK and the only good thing about censorship- an 18 rating stops horny teenagers, screaming brats and all the other flotsam that ruin lower rated films. Every film should be 18.
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Jun 17, 2008 8:11:00 AM CDT
It is indeed a powerful, if vengeful, and neglectful God
by toadkillerdog
That you follow. To have mastered the laughing into the four winds, is an astounding feat.
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The wind laughed back. And then threw me in a skip. 2true has shown the way, but I am a lowly mortal- whereas he is a god.
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Shitheels stand no chance. I smited Anchorite yesterday- twas but a minor irritation, and no thought really given to it, but still shitheels must pay! I am still vigilat for the next Braneparts emergence.
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I wish that weren't the case, but it is. Increasingly so, it sometimes seems, as they all lurch around in memsmeric trances, thumbing moronic messages into their mobiles and not paying the slightest bit of attention to where they're going.Did you hear some councils are putting up lamp-post cushions to protect these idiots when they walk into them? How on earth are we all going to evolve if we encourage this kind of behaviour.
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Lead can be trusted, that's all that matters....
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smiting messi. For being a cunt. He has been on the receiving end of many an electronic pencil.
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Messi is the ultimate fanboy, and what absolutely cracks me up, is how often he uses that particular slur on others when he is the poster child! Anchorite, on the other hand is a jackass who has for too long been ignored. Back in the recount TB, he posted an offensive, racially charged piece of crap that was all but ignored until samsquanch pointed it out. I did not see it at the time, but I made note of it. So, when he posts some other racially charged crap, I call him on it. He tried to backpedal, but his own words and stupidity did him in - just like they always did with BraneRobot.
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I gave the CoC a shout out on the Tony Jaa TB
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and re Anchorite: Although he is a polical troglodyte, he is articulate and can be persuaded to relent on some of his more extreme views. This is not something that can be said for Branecell or Morbid or their despicable ilk. I think of Anchorite as the Far Right equivalent of node, whereas Brane et al are the more evil zfisk.
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Anchorite is not a racist. take it back, sucka!
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I'm so fucking happy.
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I saw this movie last night, and you are wrong. Ed Norton was the best Banner ever. Tim Roth was amazing, Liv Tyler was the best betty ross, and the action was awesome. This was the ultimate chase movie. I know it's fun to hate on something everyone else loves, but at the end of the day this is a comic book movie. Ang Lee's turd of 5 years ago was forgotten about this weekend.
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This is what Anchorite said in the Recount TB. I never called him a racist, I said he was and is an insensitive jerk, and I stand by that. He may be articulate, but that does not excuse his postings which on several ocassions I have found to be offensive. He is not on Brandead level, but that will not prevent me from calling him on his bullshit when I see it from now on.
"And as for performing the Jeffersons theme in lieu of Hail to the Chief, Obama said he's an agent of change, right? That would be a change, all right.
Also, giving the White House a more appropriate paint job might be in order. And the spinner rims on Air Force One are just a little bling to let the rest of the world know that the new kid on the block isn't a square." Oh, yeah. Shut-up BSB aka glovedone aka Braffed.
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Anchorite has posted things in the past that can be said, being kind, to be extremely fucking dubious (There was one about having to repaint the white house if Obama won). I don't think he is an outright racist, but sometimes he does post without thinking.
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totally stylistically different. Speaking of which, where is BSB? I haven't seen him for ages. I wholeheartedly agree about Anchorite- there was also that one about how to win in Iraq- which was pretty fucking off. I think insensitive more than racist sums him up.
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Did BSB get married already or what?
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What's up dude! how are things treating you? I don't think he's a racist, but damn he is funny. I think people like Toadster are a little to sensitive.
Toad needs to mello -
He thinks he is an insensitive buffon. I agree with him. That would explain BSB's absense (Getting fitted up for his coffin suit). He'll be on honeymoon, and would you post on AICN on your Honeymoon?
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Anchorite has never, ever been intentionally funny. This is beyond debate.
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As far as anchorite, he has not showed much intelligence, or the ability to absorb an intellectual smackdown without running away. So he will be treated accordingly.
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He's a Great American.
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There is no black or white. racism doesn't exist. We should be viewing everyone as being green. those dark green kids need to be kept under a watchful eye, tho.
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Whats Up Pickles!
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You are so adorable!
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It is only ok I guess to make a comment about blacks talking in theaters if you are black yourself. Scary Movie 1 anyone? For some movies my friends and actually seek those kind of audiences out. Last great film for that was "Freddy vs. Jason". But is is maddening as hell when it is a movie you actually want to watch. "saving private ryan?" come on, shut the fuck up. The biggest scourge these days seems to be teenagers and their sell phones. Like something is that important you have to talk on the phone during the movie? Not like those little fuckers are talking someone through doing a heart bypass.
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how's that Princess?
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I thought you'd be happy today. I hear that they are allowing gay marriages today in california. I thought for sure that you and "Stewart" would be in a tangled, fleshy, sweaty game of "hide the Pickle" I'd ask if you were the pitcher of the cather, but judging from how bad I fuck you over on these TB's I think I know the answer. PLAY BALL!!!
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Libby, you are one of the cutest girls in cyberspace. You are like a breath of fresh air with your wisdom and insight. I bet all the horny boys at your school are lining up to plug you. I adore you and hope that dispite how hard I hit you, you know its becasue I love you. Meow.
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I will have to lower my high-brow wit and come up with something involving an animal and vomit. I'm gonna try real hard, ok cupcake. Ummmmm Ferret-puke. ummm Baboon spew?
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My superior and scarcastic wit is wasted on you. I thought after a few weeks, you would have studied more. Oh well...
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LibWar, while I respect your ability to drop the creative insult persona, and engage in 'conventional' warfare. And while there is no doubt that you once again layeth the smacketh down on braffed/glovedone, I still wanted some fireworks man! Beating braffed/glovedone is no big deal, you are right, he does not possess the ability to fight back (and he knows it), but still, damn it, I wanted to see some classic LibWar insults. Just a fan of the man!
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even though it was bollocks
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Great movie. I loved it as did the crowd around me. Nice homages to the show and comic. Nice cameos by Stan and Lee. Also liked the two students names that described what they saw on campus: Jack McGee and Jim Wilson. The Hulk looked good. There is only so much a computer can do to make the Hulk look good and they pulled it off. Also, glad that the Hulk spoke. Finally, I loved the scene with Ross and Stark at the end. Great movie.
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...of allegedly excised footage, especially if what they say about the Hulk discovered Captain America in the Arctic/Antarctic are true.
Besides that, though, I got the impression from Norton's performance that there was supposed to be some discussion about the Hulk being Banner's repressed id/rage. Although this was admittedly done ad nauseam in the Ang Lee movie which was the main reason so many people hated it, I don't think they should have done away with it entirely.
One thing I really liked about this movie that I feel the first one got totally wrong (let's belay the comments on how the first one sucked for now)? This Banner denies that the Hulk is part of him, just like he did for many years in the comics. That James Schamus bullshit about how "he liked" hulking out felt grossly out of character, or at the very least very latter-day stuff. Norton's got his finger on what makes Banner such a compelling character.
Oh, and FUCK YOU DAVID MAISEL!!! -
Jun 19, 2008 1:08:18 PM CDT
All right Anchorite - I have some time to kill, lets get to it
by toadkillerdog
I have repeatedly said I do not think you are a racist. I have also repeatedly said I think you are an insensitive jerk. I stand by that assessment. You are ignoring what I originally took you to task for. Ignoring why I say you are an offensive, race baiting (though not necessarily racist) liar. And that is this statement: "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." You called the Black Culture ignorant, then you tried to backpedal and say (lying) that your statement was directed towards any culture. Before I expose and destroy that lie - once again. Let me say that the 'call and answer' hypothesis that I posted, was not an 'excuse' for behavior, it was an explanation of the ORIGIN of the behavior. And the only thing we are in total agreement about, is that any disruptive behavior by anyone, should result in their being removed from the theater. Now, back to your lying. You said
"As I was scanning through the posts, I saw that someone (I don't remember who) mentioned that there is a "call and answer" to the culture, or some such nonsense. It seemed to be an explanation of the behavior as a cultural characteristic."
"...I made it as clear as possible that I am an equal opportunity hater when it comes to movie disruptions. I never said one group or another displays bad behavior. I was merely ridiculing the "culture" excuse. " It was here, when you said you were not refering to any one group, that your backpedalling bullshit came to the fore. In a post previous to this, I had called you out for that bullshit about labelling Black culture as being 'ignorant'. You tried to worm, out of it by saying you meant all cultures that talk are ignorant. Pure bullshit. I will repost how I exposed that lie of yours. Once again, there is NO WAY that you could have read my post, and NOT have known that the 'call and answer' was about a minority culture, be it Black or Latino. And you put lie to your own argument saying you were only responding to my first post that you cut and pasted above, because in that post there is NO explanation given for 'call and answer'. It just says call and answer tradition. So, unless you know about the Black Church 'call and answer' history - which if you did, that would mean you were fully aware of the cultural meaning, and thus you knew I was refering to blacks. Or, you were not aware of what 'call and answer' meant, because it was not explained in that post, so you had to have read the second post of mine that you cut and pasted, and in that one in CLEARLY says it is about the black community. Either way, you are lying. You are a lying, offensive, race-baiting, insensitive, stupid, jerk. And if you can not see why your spinner rims, Jeffersons remarks, and repainting the white house remarks are offensive - see the above sentence for an explanation.
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I do not throw the term racist around without good cause. I did not call you a racist, I called you an insensitive jerk. You are, and nothing about any of your posts changes my opinion of that. You have an uncommon ability for self-deception. Your assertion that you were aiming this comment at a person - "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." is pathetically laughable. Your own words and let me capitalize them YOUR CULTURE, speaks loud and clear. If you were directing those comments at a person, you might have said, YOU are ignorant. Not YOUR CULTURE. And please spare all of us your phony indignation at being caught out in the lies. By your own latest admission, you know what 'call and answer' refers to. It was about black culture. By your own written admission you wrote YOUR CULTURE. Knowing it was about BLACK culture. I mean really what else is there to say that you have not already written yourself? And your defense of your comments about Obama are just as despicable as the comments themselves. I am not the only one who was offended. In fact, I did not even know about it until samsquanch pointed it out - and how offensive he found it in the recount TB. And having Braffed come to your defense amounts to a piece of horseshit saying it does not stink. You can disagree with Obama, and say so. But your characterization of him was blatantly racially and race-baitingly motivated. You just do not get it do? Sure insult Obama, call him names, say you can't stand his policies. But when you cross the line from legitimate disagreement or even childishly lame put-downs, into purely racially motivated insults, then you had better expect to be called on that bullshit. Insult him like a man. Hell insult his manhood if you want. But do not inject race into - unless you want to be accused of being an insensitive jerk, or worse a true racist. And damn sure climb down off of your hurt high horse. You crossed the line with the racial insults. You crossed the line with calling the entire black culture ignorant. You can self-decieve all you want. But YOUR CULTURE , is not about a single person. And you know it. The thing is Anchorite, if you did not have a history of saying questionable or outright offensive things, I would have ignored you as I did many times in the past when i came across posts from you that I found offensive or just plain stupid. But I got fed up with your brand of ignorant, offensive, and frankly stupid, posting. I never said I smote you. I said I exposed and destroyed your lies. You still have not risen to the level of offensiveness - such as BraneRobot, where I and many others, felt compelled to counter at every turn his hatred. I hope you do not get to that point. For now, I wiil probably still ignore your posts - the stupid ones at least. Just realize that when you post offensive things, and you are not dumb so you know what you are intending to say, just realize that there may be people out here who will not stand quietly by and let such offensive material go unanswered. Last thing: Grow up.
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I actually did forget that I said I smited you. Thank you for pointing that out. Yes, I smited you, and I am proud of it. Now, can you drag up yet another very minor point to try and deflect from what you can not escape? And that is you called the entire Black Culture ignorant. Your own words, and how many times does it have to be posted before you acknowledge it. Oh, well I will post them again - "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." Now, lets do a comparison. Smote/smite vs calling the entire Black Culture ignorant and not only lying about it but refusing to even apologize for saying so. In fact, stretching self-deceiving credulity to the limits by saying you were talking about a person, when your own words say YOUR CULTURE. Hmm. Well, I was wrong when I said I never said I smoted/smited you. I am glad i did say I smited you though. Because you deserved it. Now, what is your excuse for calling the entire Black Culture ignorant? And let me say for the fourth or fifth time - really I have lost count, that your own words indicated that you knew what 'call and answer' meant, BEFORE you wrote "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." You KNEW it was about BLACK culture, and yet yiou still decided to call the entire culture ignorant. I am not playing 'gotcha' I am not even trying hard to expose you, it is unnecessary. Your own wors do that without any embellishment. You can not claim out of context, or cherry picking or misquoted. It is your exact, entire quote.So once again, we come to the inescapable point that you were deliberately calling the entire black culture ignorant. There is no room for giving benefit of the doubt on that point. None. If, as your furious attempts at explaining that your comments were only directed towards one person, were even remotely true, why would you have used "YOUR CULTURE" instead of just YOU? No excuse. No benefit of the doubt. Just your own words, and the inescapable meaning of them. You are a jackass Anchorite. A total and complete jackass. And I smited you as the shitheel you are. Now, on to Obama. You are getting even more pathetic. Lets examine this comment of yours. "People such as yourself would rather not have Barack Obama subjected to the harsh scrutiny that presidential campaigns warrant." And just how is saying: "And as for performing the Jeffersons theme in lieu of Hail to the Chief, Obama said he's an agent of change, right? That would be a change, all right. Also, giving the White House a more appropriate paint job might be in order. And the spinner rims on Air Force One are just a little bling to let the rest of the world know that the new kid on the block isn't a square." how is that subjecting Obama to the 'harsh scrutiny' of a presidential campaign? Please explain that one. No, Anchorite, once again you are furiously attempting to change the meaning of what you wrote your ownself, and fooling no one, except maybe youself. Like I said ealier, you have an uncommon ability for self-deception. You also like to try and change the subject, but it does not work with me. You posted offensive remarks about Obama, and now they are some type of 'harsh scrutiny'? You called the entire Black Culture ignorant with the YOUR CULTURE statement. But now magically (well at least in you mind that is) it was just about one person? Amazing. Simply amazing that you would beleive for even one nanosecond that anyone who read your own words, would think anything but that you deliberately, knowingly, insulted the entire black culture and made offensive, race-baiting comments about Obama.
Yes, insult him like a man. That means treat him just as you would any white politician you disagree with. As a man! Not as a Black, man, or Indian, or whatever his race is, but as a man! And because you can not see that, because you somehow still thnk it is acceptable to attack him - with stereotypes no less, because of his color. I think you are a fucking gutless, race-baiting, coward. Who does nothing but pander to the lowest common denominator of racial stereotyping, because you do not possess the capacity to criticize based upon a true disagreement with policy. And let me say this, I have no compunction from using the word racist to describe what I would consider racist behavior. I am not afraid to use the word. That I did not and have not in your case, must mean that I do not consider you to be one. But make no mistake, if and when i do consider you one, I will gladly, use it. Oh, yes. The 'go fuck youself' very witty. Very creative. Inspired even. You should trademark that phrase. Wow. I am devastated. I have no problem with using profanity to hammer home a point. I did so for ten years as a Marine. But I like to think I was a tad bit more creative that 'go fuck yourself'.
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First, the shitheel remark. It is a comic reference that a group on these TB's known as the CoC get, and always chuckle at. Same as smiting, or smiting shitheels with a No. 2 pencil. You are shitheel that was smited. The 'grow up' was meant as just that. Grow up, with regards to your infantile, borderline, or outright racially offensive remarks. There was no rhetorical eloquence intended. Just simple statement. I do intend to see Tropic Thunder, and I have laughed heartily at RDJ in the trailers. I am not Black, but it would not matter if I was or not. You do not have to be a certain race to find things racially offensive. I, and others found your comments to be offensive, and not for the first time. That you are on AICN, is no excuse for boorish behavior. It always amuses me when someone will get on the TB's and proclaim (And I am not speaking of you in this particular instance)that they have graduated from such and such college, and hold such and such degree, and that these TB's, where they can say anything do not matter, because they are anonymous, and that they would never talk this way, out in the 'real' world. Well, you know, I say that is bullshit. When people 'let down their guard' it is not a 'new' person being exposed. It is the real person. You simply feel freer to express your hidden self. Nothing wrong with that, just do not pretend it is not the real you. What is wrong in the real world, is wrong here, you just are too cowardly in the real world to express yourself, and hide behind an anonymous site. Right and wrong does not have any exclusivity of location. As for the Michelle Obama remark, really, who cares that she called him her 'babies daddy'. He is. Why is that even an issue? How could you even possibly think that gives you an excuse to use the spinner rims, and the Jefferson remarks etc? It does not. When GWB tapped Laura on the Ass after he won in 2000, would that give everyone an excuse to say about the First Lady, 'Did George tap that ass today?' No. It would be just as offensive. George was showing genuine affection for Laura. To twist it and turn it into an offensive joke would not be justified by the fact that he did it to his wife. I do not know the context of what Michelle Obama said, but it does not justify using it as a launching pad for racially offensive remarks on your part. Let me go one step further, you could have just said, 'Obama is a baby daddy', and even though that would be borderline, it would be somewhat understandable, given that his wife supposedly said something similar. But not the whole Jeffersons, spinner, repaint the white etc. comments. Get it? No, you probably do not. Hey, are you a conservative? "I would like to understand what framework has shaped your mindset." Rev. Wright? So, his remarks would keep you from voting for Obama? And I will stipulate they were despicable. But so was John Hagees remarks. And yes, I know he was not McCains pastor - who is? But McCain did not 'disown' him until the Rev Wright fiasco came to light. No, Wright was simply another means and excuse for people whjo had no intention of voting for Obama anyway, to justify not voting for him, and to absolve themselves of any 'racially' based preference. A vote for Hillary, was because you liked Hillary. Same as with Obama. Yes, some voted because of race, or gender, but most voted because they liked the person. When the country voted overwhelmingly for Dukakis instead of Jackson, did that mean, it was racist? No. Did Jackson get as many black votes as Obama? No. Why? Because Black people and White people liked Obama more than Jackson. That is not racist, it is simple truth. Bill Clinton does what is best for Bill Clinton, and that means he would throw any and everyone under the bus. Now, to the main event. You called all of Black Culture ignorant. No amount of backpedalling, or attempts at revisionism can change that. And really, you just keep digging that hole deeper. To recap - for the fifth or sixth time. You KNEW what 'call and answer' meant. By your own admission. You KNEW that it was referring to BLACK and ONLY Black culture. You responded AFTER I had posted the 'call and answer' -to which you where aware - by your own admission, the origin of. You KNEW it was about BLACK culture and only Black culture. So, when you posted THIS statement: "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." - when you posted that, you were fully aware that what you were saying was directed at the Black Culture. "YOUR CULTURE". You have even changed your defense (lying and backpedalling). At first you said "That was a remark directed at a specific person " Now you are saying: "I was referring to ANYONE who falls back on culture as an excuse for bad behavior." Right. There are no 'gotchas' there. It is just your own words. I am not trying to paint you any color other than what you are. I do not care whether you are 'PC' or not. That is irrelavant. Not being PC is not an excuse to be racially intolerant or offensive. You are not a dumb or stupid person, though you have posted dumb and stupid things. So, it should not be too difficult for you to grasp that your own words indict you, and no amount of revionism on you part, will change that.
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Anchorite, ignoring previously stated positions from either yourself and others, and reiterating previously dismissed points does not work well to change the subject from one which you find yourself unwiilling or unable to answer. One case in point: I have already told you that my position on the call and answer being a part of black culture, and thus a possible reason for talking back during live theatre, church services and movies was merely an origin (certainly not the only), not an excuse. I said it here: "First of all I wrote the 'call and answer' analogy to explain why in SOME parts of Black culture, such as Churches, and social gatherings and Black live theatre, it is customary and accepted practice. And how that carried over into the movie's - which are no more sacrosanct than Church and live theatre. let me stipulate that I do agree that it is very annoying when anyone of any race talks, or talks back to the movie. That is not in debate." And here: " Let me say that the 'call and answer' hypothesis that I posted, was not an 'excuse' for behavior, it was an explanation of the ORIGIN of the behavior. And the only thing we are in total agreement about, is that any disruptive behavior by anyone, should result in their being removed from the theater." I am neither pissed nor in need of saving face. My commnents on the possible origin of why some Blacks do this at movies stands. Now, let me add it one more time, because you have a history of only seeing what you want to see. That is ONE possible explanation for why some blacks do that. NO excuse. And no matter what the reason, it and should not be tolerated by anyone. Now, to the second case in point: this entire part of the thread "why Blacks talk during movies" was kicked off by Braffed's question, which then degenerated into stereotypical put down of black speech. Abom answered. I answered, then sometime later, you chipped in. I can not say with any certainty that you read Braffed's first post which asked the question. So, that is sticky point number one. But you must have read either Abom's and or mine because you referred to the call and answer. Which brings us to Sticky point number two: Call and answer. The third sticky point: Talking during movies. Lets give you benefit of doubt and say you did not read Braffed's post - which would have left no doubt that this discussion point was about Blacks and only blacks, talking during the movies. That leaves Aboms posts and mine. Lets go timeline: I posted "The call and answer, is part of some Black culture. It has nothing to do with 'living in poverty' or any economic condition. But it has to do with the Church and with the traditon in live black theatre of 'answering' during a performance." at 10:31. The very next post, was a three line response from Braffed, at 10:34. The very next post after that was from you. You posted a very good Hulk breakdown at 10:43. It was your next post at 11:09 that contained this quote which I then and still do find offensive. "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." I replied immediately that I found that offensive. Your subject heading said "I don't care what color you are..." That would have been fine if you had left it at that, or even the next line where you rightly pointed that out that any disruptive behavior should result in a person not being allowed in. It was the following quote though that went into offensive territory aimed at blacks. And yes, I will go back over the timeline again after you read this: "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." At 1:03 you posted this: "As I was scanning through the posts, I saw that someone (I don't remember who) mentioned that there is a "call and answer" to the culture, or some such nonsense. It seemed to be an explanation of the behavior as a cultural characteristic." So, this brings us (for the sixth or seventh time) to why I maintain that you deliberately aimed this comment "...your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." at Blacks. You have already stated that you were just scanning posts and found the 'call and answer'. Giving you benefit of doubt about Braffed's first post (meaning you did not know it was about Blacks), the very first written occurrence - at 10:31, of 'call and answer' left no doubt, that it was about Black culture. Remember you posted your Hulk review just two posts afterwards at 10:43. The very next occurence of 'call and answer' was by Abom at 10:45. "That's something I hadn't considered, a "culture" of "call-and-answer." Yes, I can see that being an influence. I don't see much of that in my part of town. But that begs the question, certainly people from a "call-and-answer" culture must have a self-awareness of that behavior," Ok, by your own admission you knew that 'call and answer' was about Black Culture. The discussion point of the thread was about blacks talking during movies. The 'call and answer' explanation given for the possible origin, was mentioned twice in the span of five posts. Once again, the discussion point was about why blacks talk during movies, and once again, you knew by your own admission that 'call and answer' was about black culture, or you could simply have read it a mere two posts above your own at 10:43. So, given all of that, you want me and everyone else to believe that this comment "...your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." was not aimed at Blacks? If you had stuck to the subject title of your post and kept it about all races, it would have been fine. But you KNEW the discussun point was about BLACK culture. Whether you read my first post about call and answer or by your own admission, you knew what call and asnwer meant. You knew, the discussion point was about Black culture. So, the tail end of your post, was aimed squarely at Black culture. There is no doubt in my mind. No benefit of doubt either given your previously racially insentive remarks about Obama, that you somehow seem to think are justified because they might be an SNL skit. A very offensive one if ever aired. I will give you the benefit of the doubt on one thing. I doubt that you truly Hate Obama, as you have stated a few times. You dislike him, no doubt. Perhaps you can not stand his policies - if you knew what they were. But, hate? Just because he is different than you? I was a Marine for almost ten years. When you are fighting, skin color is totally irrelavant. That is one reason why I have a very low tolerance for stereotyping and intolerance. The service allows for the meeting of all types from around the world. You judge the man and the woman. Not the race. This is usually the case in the enlisted ranks. I can not speak for officers, but we are the ones who have to fight and you bcome a damn good judge of people when your life is in their hands. Last thing. I actually gave the matter of your posts some thought, as opposed to just writing a quick reply. I do believe that you intended to slur Black Culture. I think I have laid out quite clearly via the timeline and pointing out how the general thread was about blacks talking, and the call and answer culture. I think it stretches belief that you were not responding directly about black culture given all that had been posted previous to your post. But given all of that, I still do not think you are racist. I think you are intolerant of people and ideas that you are unfamiliar with. I saw it many times in the service. Kids who had never met a Black, or Latino, or Asian. Kids who maintained the worst stereotypes - until they changed. I see it in adults in civilian life as well. I see it in you. It has nothing to do with being conservative, it is merely a matter of being open. Grow up Anchorite. I do not mean that as an insult.
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Jun 24, 2008 4:37:42 PM CDT
Fred Read all posts here - Fred head hurt. Anchorite lies
by freds_balls_in_a_mason_jar
Even Fred can see he must have known thread was about Black folks. Anchorite try hard to squirm and worm. It not work too well. Why not just apologize for making mistake? Thats what Fred would do. Free Freds balls
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First let me say I have no rancor towards you. I have actually kind of enjoyed having this TB - almost to ourselves, to expound on our points. That being said, you last post left me shaking my head because in disbelief because I find it highly unlikely that you could have just scanned the posts, and not have really read them and still been able to pick up on two different points, such as, one, the call and answer, and two, that it was in reference to Blacks talking during movies. There is just no way that you could have been able to reply in your post the way you did about talking during movies, AND the call and answer, AND the cultural refernce, without knowing that that all of those references where about blacks talking during the movie. I also find it hard to believe that you would just post without reading any of the posts immediately before your own, which as I pointed out in the previous post, that it was my post about call and answer which included the black cultural reference, and a three line post by braffed that were the two immediatley above your own. I just do not beleive you did not read those. It all leads me to the inescapable conclusion that this quote - "If you want to maintain that it's cultural, all you are doing is perpetuating the idea that your culture is, despite your weak protestations, indeed ignorant." was written deliberately about Black Culture. Regarding the relevance to your posts in other TB's, they are very relevant. They show a pattern of behavior, which is why I could not give you the benefit of the doubt. The fact that you have first cousins who are black or biracial, really should make you even more sensitive to the words you use - regardless of your professed hatred of Obama, which as I said in an earlier post must be hyperbole. Are you from Illinois? Does he represent you? Has he voted on bills that disgust you or promoted bills that could proiduce such hatred? Or, is it just because you are conservative and just do not like democrats? i mean if it is the latter, that is fine. But still, hatred, is extreme for someone you do not even know or has not done anything that would really warrant such feeling. The last reason why posting from other TB's is relevant, is because I seem to recall that you posted something about not liking to come here to the TB's too often because someone is always throwing around the word racist. I am paraphrasing, and maybe i am remembering wrong. But if i am right, then the word racist was probably thrown in your direction one or more times. And granted, just because someone calls you that, it does not make it so. But, I dare say, if we went through your posts in other TB's, I am sure we would come across other insensitive - racially insensitive postings. I have no intention of doing that though. Just know this anchorite, the initital reason i kept responding to you was because I was offended by your posts, and I freely admit, I like a good debate. Now, I am feeling a bit differently. Whereas I am still offended by what you said, my hope is that this dialogue will at least give you some food for thought regarding how some of the things you have said are offensive. Not being PC is not the point. What SNL or comedians may or may not say, is not the point. We are free to say and beleive what we want - and i have and will defend that right. But we are also free to make choices in what we say and write. We are also free to change.
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But, you have persuaded me that I should give you the benefit of the doubt regarding the offending the entire black culture comment. Having just read through the Hancock thread, I realize that there are some people who will do or say anything to justify their or others behavior when it comes to race. I think you and I have come to a wary understanding though, and that is a very good thing given where we started from. As for Obama, nothing at all wrong with not liking what he stands for politically, and for drawing a conclusion about him personally - all of us do that when we evaluate people and or candidates. But, you still have not enumerated why you dislike his policies. All politicians lie. Every last one that gets re-elected that is. All manipulate - all the ones that get re-elected that is. Name any who have not, and I will show you Mr. Smith who goes to Washington. That being said, we have to decided how much of a liar we are willing to put up with, and whether or not their lies are the type that will drag this country down or not. I am not an unabashed Obama supporter. But given the current alternative, I do not want to see four more years of Republicans in the highest office. I would have voted for McCain in 2000. In a heartbeat. But, in absorbing the beating he did at the hands of GWB, he realized that the only way to get what he wanted was to pander to the extreme elements of his party. To compromise his integrity - which to be honest was never beyond reproach - Keating Five being a prime example. But I could live with that type of lie. I also realize that politicians must be able to shore up their base, but Mccain had appealed to the independants -of which I am one, back in 2000. I liked his brand of moderate Republicanism, with a maverick streak. It suggested he was not beholden to anyone. Now? No. I am afraid he will do whatever it takes to secure the crown. Obama is untested, no question, but outside of vice-president, or an inner circle cabinet member, no one is qualified for the Presidency except a former President. To say being in the Senate for many years makes you qualified, I think is a stretching it. Senators do not govern. Which is why so few have made it to the Presidency in the past 50 years. Obama will be green, he will make mistakes, and the one thing that concerns me about him, is that he is stubborn. He is very, very smart. But that intelligence sometimes gets in the way of common sense. He will need powerful advisors who he trusts and who will stand up to him to tell him he is wrong. His policies do not scare me. Really, what about them scares you? Say what you will about Clinton, but this was a far more prosperous country then. I always hear that you cannot give credit to a President for the good times, then that means you can not blame him for the bad either. But someone was in charge. Someone by their actions, created the environment that allowed the good times to prosper. Bush has not. And McCain, by following the Bush script, will not. This year, only Obama stands a chance.
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