Cool News
Hercules Is Gobsmacked By Friday’s Mind-Roastingly Intense Five-Star BATTLESTAR GALACTICA Mid-Season Finale!!
I am – Hercules!!
Battlestar Galactica 4.10 FAQ
What’s it called?
“Revelations.”
Who’s responsible?
Teleplay is credited to David Weddle and Bradley Thompson (“He That Believeth In Me”).
What does SciFi say?
“A band of rebel Cylons holds President Roslin hostage while attempting to lure the Final Five out of hiding inside the Galactica and the human fleet.”
Today’s not Friday! What is this review doing up Thursday?
The SciFi Channel on Wednesday night screened this episode at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood.
The big news?
Big stuff happens. I deem this the biggest episode of “Battlestar Galactica” yet produced.
Why is it the biggest?
Series mastermind Ron Moore implored the audience to keep the big secrets. We must abide Mr. Moore’s wishes.
Others were in the audience with you, right, Herc? Will you ban those who post any kind of spoilers in talkback and shut down the talkback entirely if the spoiling persists?
I will!
Doesn’t this make Herc Ron Moore’s little bitch?
It does!
Is it true, as you intimated last week, that the focus this week shifts back on the circumstances of Starbuck’s resurrection?
It could be argued that Starbuck and her miracle viper are key components of this week’s story.
Is it true, as rumored, that Starbuck sees her own dead and mutilated body this week?
No.
Is the final Cylon revealed this week?
No.
What else is SciFi not telling us?
D’Anna has officially ascended from Boxey to Head Toaster In Charge. Despite last week’s Bill-Laura reunion, Lee Adama’s presidency continues. And we will see a side of Bill never before glimpsed!
Are you sure this is the biggest “Galactica” ever?
Yes.
Bigger than the episode that ended with Boomer putting two bullets in Bill Adama's chest?
Yes.
Bigger than the episode that leapt ahead a year?
Yes.
Bigger than the episode that revealed the Watchtower Four?
Yes.
Will this post spawn the lengthiest "Galactica" talkback ever forged?
Yes.
What’s great?
An insane amount of tension among the Watchtower Four now that D’Anna can identify them; handprints will be permanently squeezed into sofa arms across America Friday night as a deadly showdown between Lee and D’Anna escalates. Then the final act kicks the episode, the season and the series into the stratosphere. “Revelations” is one aptly titled installment. You will revel in the reveals the episode bestows and curse those you're denied.
What’s not so great?
On the way out I asked writer-producer Jane Espenson if she knew if SciFi would announce Friday when the show would return; she said she’s long assumed it won’t be back until 2009.
Anything interesting emerge in the Q&A with Ron Moore, Mary McDonnell, Katee Sackoff and Tricia Helfer?
* Helfer’s “a bit agnostic” and not as tall as you’d think.
* While cast members admit they routinely use “frak” even when away from the cameras, Sackoff prefers “fuck” in her everyday life. “Nothing works like a good f-bomb,” she insisted.
* The series finale is filming right now in Vancouver and will likely wrap just before the June 30 Screen Actors Guild deadline.
* The script for the series finale made Edward James Olmos and Aaron Douglas cry, according to Helfer. Helfer describes her own reaction to the finale script: “Like somebody punched me in the stomach.” Helfer said the ending will compel fans to revisit the series’ beginning.
* McDonnell said the series finale script filled her with “an incredible feeling of adrenaline.” “It made me understand the entire saga, and made me excited for all of you,” she told the audience. She added she was “blown away” by it.
* “The Final Five do not have numbers,” said Moore. Which I guess means there isn't a Seven???
* Moore confirmed again that the fleet will get to Earth by the series finale and that he originally had a number of ideas for what the fleet would find there. “We X’ed off a few immediately.”
* Asked if she would consider a run for U.S. president, McDonnell replied, “Only if I can have Hillary as my V.P.”
* Moore acknowledged he was behind on his episode podcasts but intended to catch up. Two of them, in fact, will be recorded June 12 (that’s today!) and another two soon after.
* Moore said he did not have the series finale in his head as he wrote the original miniseries, but figured it out midway through the first regular season. Moore seemed to hint that Leoben’s first-season line “All this has happened before and will happen again” is significant.
* As Moore wrestled with the series’ conclusion this year, he had the epiphany that the show’s not really about the plot – it’s about the characters. He then scrawled “It’s the characters, stupid!” atop his whiteboard. He said that’s when the series finale “really clicked.”
* Moore said the monotheist/polytheist business emerged out a single line in his miniseries rough draft, when Six told Baltar that “God is love.” “I didn’t really know what it meant,” said Moore, but SciFi exec Michael Jackson suggested Moore play up the religious angles. The colonists’ polytheism was holdover from the many references to the Greek and Roman gods in the 1970s series.
* Mary McDonnell volunteered that everyone was “quite happy” with Moore’s not-yet-aired directorial debut.
* How do the Cylons’ Bob Dylan tune and Baltar’s Shakespeare quotation fit into the bigger picture? “All will be revealed,” replied Moore without elaboration.
* McDonnell says she’s already snuck a peek at the now-filming “Caprica” prequel pilot’s dailies and found what she saw “absolutely thrilling.” “They all treat us like their parents,” she says of the “Caprica” cast.
* Making Starbuck female was one of the very first ideas Moore had for the series the weekend David Eick suggested Moore shepherd the series. It was a pivotal idea that helped Moore free himself from some constrictions of the original series.
* Moore said the idea of another “Razor”-like prequel TV-movie set in the “Galactica” universe was still in the “early talking stages.” He downplayed reports that three TV-movies might get produced, suggesting one movie was more likely.
How does it end, spoiler-boy?
With the survivors, stunned into silence.
Herc’s rating for “Battlestar Galactica” 4.10?
*****
Tonight’s episode will be fed in its entirety here at the top of every hour from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. ET.
10 p.m. Friday. SciFi.
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Readers Talkback
comments powered by Disqus-
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Can't wait for Friday!
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BSG is the best show on TV. Its hard to believe this is the final season!
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Everything has happened before and it will again...the players will be different, etc. It seems like it's everyone's destiny to keep repeating this cycle. Wormholes maybe? I'm rambling.
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June 12, 2008, 3:37 a.m. CST
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
by Lip Up Fatty Fatty Reggae
I reckon they will find an empty earth with signs of a war between machines and man.... But I can't wait to see Revelations!
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every hour on the hour. who would actually wait for nighttime to watch it??!??
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Was the destruction of Caprica by the Cylons revenge for the destruction of Earth or was Helfer referring to something more existential?
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I think a poster on yesterday's galactica talkback probably hit it pretty close: The majority of humanity will spawn the polytheistic religions of ancient Earth (see Athena, Apollo, Hera, etc) and Baltar's "Cylon God" cult will be the first monotheists and the whole cycle will start again.
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i have to wait till Friday and then a whole year! BSG you bitch!why do you hate me so?
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in my humble opinion the 4th series has been pretty boring so far although you can tell it's been building up to something massive. Hopefully we won't be let down and won't have to wait a ridiculously long time for the second half of the season....
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Could be 2009 for how far away it feels right now...
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Pretty mindblowing. There are no cliffhangers here, you will see everything by the end of the episode. Everyone raised their right hand and promised not to spoil, and I won't, but there were times I had tears in my eyes. Olmos is fantastic here, and to see this projected in HD on a giant screen...it could have been a BG movie for real. The ship looked like a ocean liner in front of me. I got to talk with the head of the Sci-Fi network, meet Katie Sackhoff & Jane Espenson, see Tricia Helfer's underwear more that once (the ladies all had short skirts, and I was in the 5th row. I see london...) talked with show composer Bear McCready on seeing his BG concert a few week back, and got stuffed with free food and drink. I got to do all this by being given a suprise VIP pass for being a member of the Editors Guild. I thought Tricia Helfer was very tall, and I'm 6'2". A pretty terrific evening. I've been to some great events working here in H'wood, and I'm very greatful for it.
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but i reckon someone dies. and someone says "frak". am i right? am i?
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You've really raised my expectations here. I hope the episode lives up to your rhetoric. Also, according to the official site, they will be broadcasting the ENTIRE episode online starting at 9 am on Friday. Not the first act crap they've been doing for the last half dozen episodes. I can't fucking wait.
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Maybe it'll all be clear on Friday night after I've seen it, but sitting here right now I don't see how anything could be quite as "what the frak, amazing" as Tigh and Tyrol being Cylons with All Along the Watchtower playing in the background.
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and it's incredible. It covers enough ground for several episodes, it's almost too fast in the second half. Leaves plenty unanswered as well, the tracking shot at the end is a classic.
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Very excited about this.
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I thought last week's episode packed an emotional punch, especially those final moments when Roslin and Adama are reunited, but I can't wait to see what's going to happen now. Too bad we're not getting the rest until next year.
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moore, if you airlock you-know-who, people posting spoiler will be the least of your worries. <p> and that's not even a threat. <p> it's a friendly warning.
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when he finds out Tory was the one who airlocked Callie.
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Yep. They reach Earth only to discover that it's ruled by goddamned dirty apes! Apes I tell ya! Damn them all to hell!
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Jesus just proved herself a mindless fembot. <p> The Clintons suck ass, always have always will. <p> I lost any respect I may ever hve had for McDonald.
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Why don't they just dress Bill in a skirt, throw some makeup on him and be done with it. <p> The once proud male Bill Adama has been slowly sexchanged into a weeping slobbering woman this season. <p> Fuck Sol cap his ass before the get to the peepee snipping.
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Christ the Cylons following the fleet are millions of light years away from those one Caprica and the rest of the colonies. Thee Cylons following the fleet are possibly billions of light years away from their home world. Yet there is a SINGLE resurrection ship for all those bots. <p> It doesn't make any sense.
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Is anyone else thinking timetravel here? self fulfilling prophecy? Perhaps the earth they find becomes caprica in the future? I'm sure they have something greater than that u there sleeve. at least I hop so. i'm frakin excited!
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There have not been any hints of time travel elements before. it would be a huge cop out to do so now.
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you're right. that's just the first thing that poped into my head. they are smarter than me though haha
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But Herc has raised the expectations even more. Despite what some think, I think in many ways this has been the best season so far. If I'm to be denied regular Galactica for the rest of the year, I can live with it more easily if it ends tomorrow with a bang.
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/me has heard talk of 'biggest most mind blowingest episode ever' before. /me Remains doubtful, hype is never a good thing Mr Herc, shame on you. /me waits to be pleasantly surprised.
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But Herc's write-up on this is compelling me to watch it from the very beginning.
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June 12, 2008, 6:54 a.m. CST
It's Planet of the Apes / Baldios alla over again! And I knew it
by DanteS2005
You know what i'm talking about, they get to the earth and they find out that they're in the past and that thehy are the founders of the 12 colonies. Pretty much like it happens in Planet of the Apes or better, exactly like it happens in Baldios, a superb japanese "giant robot" anime from 1984 if I recall correctly.
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As if I had anything else to do anyway. Fuck, it's getting hard to stay up past 10 pm these days. Having a child, even a man child, is a lot of work! But damn is he the greatest thing. I can't wait to share stuff like this with him. At the age of five months he's already been introduced to the Looney Tunes & Batman TAS DVD's. Not that he understands a thing, of course, but the music & the lights seem to rock his little world. I'll be back after the show tomorrow. <p> Cheers!
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FYI: WaWa is a gas station/ food mart chain on the East coast. This morning they rolled out a new summer promotion: Hoagiefest. The only reason I bring it up is that the graphic accompanying the ad is a spot-on take of a "Yellow Submarine" still with a very John Lennon looking guy holding a submarine sandwich. Awesome. If you are interested, Hoagiefest seems to run from June 9th untill August 3rd. Get your tickets now.
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Well, thus far season 4 has not been about the characters. The characters have been serving the story, for the first time on the show (as I've complained about repeatedly this season).<br> <br> Looking forward to the finale!
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Herc's talked to Moore and cast, and now all is forgiven (buddy-jesus tumbs up)? I'm sorry, I think Moore has lost sight of this series after the second season. I don't know how he could possibly pull this mess together. 'God is Love?' Oh, for crying-out-loud. But hey, if it's your cup of tea, more (no pun intended) power to you.
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SOMEONE PLEASE UPLOAD THIS TO RAPIDSHARE/MEGASHARES AS SOON AS THEY CAN.<p>I can't download from this country in any other way!
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The writers have consistently given them the stage to act out emotional/dramatic scenes. It's like each episode is a showcase for 2 at a time.
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I'd give anything to hear old man Adama roar "Get your hands off me, you damn dirty skinjob!" at some point.
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that explains so much...
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I think I just figured out how it ends - they end up on Earth - and it's 1980!! <p> bring on the flying motorcycles!
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I've never seen an episode of Galactica. I've seen a few minutes of it here and there. But despite my brother's ravings about it I always thought it looked like Star Trek and I wasn't interested. However I watched that special at the beginning of this season where they had fans talking about why they like the show. It had Joss Whedon calling it the best show he's ever seen. Also I'm a Lost fan and on every Lost talkback there would always be people saying things like "OMG I can't believe we get both these shows at the same time!!" So I'm intrigued. But do you think somebody who doesn't like Star Trek would like this show? I read that Ron Moore was the exec producer of DS9. My favorite shows are Lost, Angel, Buffy, Firefly, X-Files, and Twin Peaks.
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and join the party. <p> ps: Google "Jim Jones Kool Aid" for your daily lesson.
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Gods I hope that doesn't mean we see his naked ass
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I predict the fleet reaches Earth and finds the remains of the original (1979) Battlestar Galactica on its surface.
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That's exactly what I'm thinking. And I'm totally OK with that.
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You know that's what it means. YIKES!
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I made plans to take my wife to a concert and hotel Friday for our anniversary. (These plans were made after James Callis and Aaron douglas had to drop out of a local con here due to filming). now i'm going to have to wait until late Saturday to watch this! not to mention that Callis and Douglas wrapped, are back on for the con (FedConUSA), and Douglas is bringing a DVD of 4.9 and 4.10 to screen at the con tomorrow night. Frakkity frak frak!!!!
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I love all those series you listed Matt. BSG is the exact opposite of Star Trek if you're worried about the two shows being similiar (although DS9 has more in common with BSg than other Treks). BSG is hands down the best sci-fi series and one of the best drama series ever.
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The hub is the central networking unit for all of the resurrection ships. Why they don't have a redundant backup (or at least 50 baseships guarding it) is beyond me.<p> Here's what I don't understand: what about the Cylon homeworld? Shouldn't there be a resurrection facility there independent of the fleet resurrection facilities? And what are the Cylons actually doing now? It seems like they're as adrift as the colonial fleet. Why? Have they abandoned their homeworld? What is up with them?
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Along with "All this has happened before..." this may be the most telling bit of repeated dialogue. Starbuck, whoever and whatever she is, might be the one who finally stops the cycle from perpetuating. In a show where characters have come back to life and some exist in multiple lives, a "harbinger of death" may in fact be a good thing.<br><br> As for "Revelations"...it should do quite well in silencing those who say nothing ever happens on BSG. The listless Lost somehow gets better props for storytelling, but that show's big season finale was about a guy turning a wheel. BSG's mid-season milestone radically alters the show's direction. You're left wondering how they're gonna handle the remaining dozen episodes. Some much is answered, but new questions arise with possibly darker implications.<br><br> FYI, the Thirteenth Tribe is not what it seems.
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Is not like Star Trek, except sometimes the movies starring The Original Series crew which were badass. Even then, ST's always been more 'uppity', while BSG is 'gritty', has a more military feel to it rathern than a classic naval theme that ST:TNG always played up.<p>It's compared to Star Trek because it's had the same 'impact' (though not in terms of magnitude cuz ST was prime time) today as Star Trek had back when the original series was airing and especially TNG when they tried to tackly the heady political issues of the day.<p>A Battlestar is also more like an aircraft carrier than the Enterprise so the whole angle with the pilots brings in a Top Gun feel to it (Star Wars-esque there), which you could not imagine on Star Trek.
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Oh, I'm anxious now. HELL YEAH!!!
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They get to earth and land on the lost island. Sorry to spoil it for you.
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Well... I'm excited to see all the awesome revelations tomorrow, but that doesn't mean anything happened the rest of the season. Moore really let his writers dick around this year.
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I have no problem with the Colonials showing up and laying the foundation for Greco-Roman polytheism, but if Baltar's cult starts monotheism, it isn't going to jive with history. Baltar is acting like a pseudo-Jesus, which isn't the foundation of monotheism. Neither is Judaism. A heretic Egyptian king started monotheism with his cult of Aton, who was represented by a sun disc. However, if Aton is named, then that would work, and would also mesh in the ancient Egyptian motif of the original series. Although it would be interesting to see everyone arrive at Earth to see the wreckage of their own ships with a reveal that they are caught in a time loop.
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But all the "little stories" in seaon four have laid the groundwork for what happens in "Revelations." The slow build up and burn is often the best. The climax becomes that more satisfying. <br><br> BTW, my love for Lucy Lawless grew even more with "Revelations." Just watch her face in the final scene. Her expression perfectly sums up the potential tone of the remaining episodes.
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Who the fuck cares ... I have to say that AICN has become just another Bitch for Hollywood's Press Machine. Having just sold my Battlestar Galactica season sets I'm just keeping the classic series in my library as Ron Moore bastardized the series with his piss-poor creation.
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they find Earth and get chased by T-Rex.
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shut the fuck up and go away you little bitch.
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That we don't get the final cylon this episode...I was sure they were going to leave us with that as the mid-season cliffhanger. Damn them.
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This isn't my idea, but the last episode and these comments almost seem to make it inevitable: The humans and the skinjobs settle on an abandoned Earth. The skinjobs (especially the final five, who no longer need to pass for humans) have their artificial "aging" disabled; barring accidental or intentional death, they live for thousands of years. The humans, over the generations, increasingly listen to their centuries of wisdom and eventually revere them as their gods. However, Baltar and the monotheists (both cylon and human) get fed up early on with the regime on earth and leave in 13 ships to start their own colonies. Hence setting up the eventual conflict when the two sides meet again however many millenia in the future.
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Yet you keep watching and keep coming back here to tell us about it. Awesome.
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June 12, 2008, 10:18 a.m. CST
This is perhaps the most exciting article I ever read here
by Charlie Murphy
AND IT'S JUST AN ARTICLE!! all the talk about the series finale makes me feel all shaky. (the good shaky)
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something to bring you back for the following episode...whenever that may air! <br><br> Perhaps Baltar is the jealous god? He's certainly got the personality and now the cult to perpetually feed such a delusion. Sometimes Baltar seems all-important to the story, while at other times he's just a small man caught up in much bigger circumstances. <br><br> What really happened to the Thirteenth Tribe could explain it all.
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Doesn't the fact that Olmos, Helfer, Douglas and McDonnell talk about the script for the finale give away the fact that Adama, Six, Chief and Roslin survive to at least the last eisode? I'm sure they were going to anyway but it will take any some of the tension for the final 10 episodes anytime one of these is supposedly in danger. Although I guess they could turn up in flashbacks.
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...to resurrect the colonists?<br> <br> Just grabbing at straws here.
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I admit it. I can't wait. Must. Know. Answers.
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June 12, 2008, 10:28 a.m. CST
People Who Speculate About/Obsess Over the Final Cylon
by Aquatarkusman
Are really sad, sad little people.
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BSG is the sci-fi show for people who don't like sci-fi (and people who do like sci-fi-- everybody wins!) it deals with issues you wouldn't expect to find on such a show- religion, politics, the human will to survive... It's not a crew of people just taking a scenic trip around the galaxy, it's humanity's final 40,000 people trying to find a safe place to live. For the list of shows you claim to enjoy, matty, it's curious why this one wouldn't get an automatic pass for you. you seem to have the correct geek qualifications, you just... haven't got to it, I guess. still growing into the role of a geek... Are you a toddler-geek learning to walk? or maybe a fetus-geek, still developing brain function? God, that's an awful analogy, but my question remains the same: "How the fuck have you continued to pass this up for four years?"
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Unless Fat Apollo makes an Atmo-FTL jump while wrestling with the Final Cylon. :-)
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Seriously, "Mind-roastingly intense"? Oooookay. <p>Oh, and we know the final Cylon is Gaeta. That's been obvious since Season One.</p>
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I was at the Arclight for the screening. I agree- it was the biggest BSG episode so far. And one of the best ones from the entire series. There was a funny moment in the Q&A when Ron D. Moore had us all swear to silence for the next few days. He started by addressing the audience -- “Raise your right hands” We did so. Then say “I”. We all said “I” “State your name. We all said “State your name.” We all got a kick out of that. And what I also liked form his info of upcoming treats is the completion of the podcasts! About time! Great screening- great episode. This one blew all competition away. It deserves an Emmy. BSG is Gods Frakkin awesome!!!!
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Just get the mini-series.
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Bigger than Starbuck, Dualla, Athena, and Ellen Tigh having their own spin-off movie "Sex and the Battlestar." After all designer shoes have been destroyed in the Fall of the Colonies, Stabuck wornders, "Do women just want to be saved...from rampaging hordes of killer robots?"<br><br> Guest starrng D'Anna as the bi-curious menage a trois seeker, Caprica Six as Ellen Tigh's younger doppleganger, Gaius Baltar as everybody's best gay friend, and Saul Tigh as Mr. Frak.
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Has this been talked about? During the battle to destroy the resurrection hub, a lone raptor jumped out of the battle. Could this have any implications? </br> Seems odd that they'd take special care to show this event and not touch on it later
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If it's the one I remember then I think it was just show a pilot basically commiting suicide due to the stress of the battle (wasn't he wanred that jumping this far from Galatica was suicide? But he'd rather try that in his desperation). Basically it was showing the tragedy of battle without just blowing another one of them up. Of course I might be wrong and the pilot coud resurface.
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...until Star Trek.
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Herc has always been, and will forever be, Joss Whedon's bitch.
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No, no , no ... you guys weren't paying attention .. the Lone Raptor was introduced earlier in the episode floating in space .. Adama found Roslin's book inside and the body of Pike .. it was this that allowed them to trace the FTL to where the Resurrection HUB and the Rogue Basestar ended up
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Baltar as god is a theory I've had. In a TB last season I mentioned that Baltar might be a version of Prospero from the Tempest.<p>Not sure if RDM is going in that direction, but it sure looks possible and would be a remarkable development IMHO!
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That's what "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again" reminds me of. Plus the Dark Tower ending (beginning?) was also a "punch in the stomach".
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Can'it wait to see it! I would have loved to have seen it in the theater. Just wondering, was there any scene that was particularly more powerful because of the big screen?<p>Thanks for the updat on the movies too. As I was reading I kept wondering about them, but of course you addressed it at the end.<p>However - clever guy that Ron Moore is - with his mention that only one movie is likely (as opposed to the reported three), it looks like he might be using your article to assist in the negotiations with the network. ;-)
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Suffice to say, it's a trip. Herc's review is spot on.
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You're right, I completely missed that. Well corrected.
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Now I remember, much appreciation for clearing that up for me!
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What's going on here?
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Have to keep an eye on his slick verbiage.
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...I sure hope that does Not mean an NYPD Blue sorta butt scene.<p>But I am worried that it does....
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...the noted really frakkin amazing episodes?! WOW.<p>Just the Herc-age above had me grippin the chair with my butt cheeks--tomorrow can't come soon enough.
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Stand By to Stand By to STAND READY to Talkback this one down to each syllable and vowel.<p>Start Carbo Loading now, so you will have sustainable energy! (Whole grain pasta, bagels, pancakes----okay: PIZZA!)
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Hail!
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I find it disturbing that both of our immediate reactions was 'no butt shot!'
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...some of the other BSG TB regulars will come out for this one.
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Does anyone remember what quotation this was?
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Are they going to be showing the full episode tomorrow every hour, or just the promos?
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It is much less disturbing than if both our reactions had been "YES! Butt shot!"
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I have no memory of it (but I might not have recognized it as Bardage....)
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It defininitely seems to go in that direction.
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It was not an intentional messing with your name. I only do that to Huberto :-)
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you can overhear baltar saying something and part of it is a line from hamlet act III. "Undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns" or some such. Also back in season 2 Roslin says "You have your pound of flesh" which is a reference to the merchant of venice.
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I think sometimes people forget the atmo jump and New Caprica are part of Season 3. Sometimes I even remember them as part of Season 2.
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I think sometimes people forget the atmo jump and New Caprica are part of Season 3. Sometimes I even remember them as part of Season 2.
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how that double-posted.
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Is joseph adama. you heard it here first.
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...and Tom Zarek. Rule of 'T'. Booh-yah.
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And realize everyone there is a Cylon.
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I dont know the finale in any way, shape, or form. However, my feeling on the matter is that Tom Zarek will turn out to be the final Cylon. That in the vein of "All of this has happened before" storyline, the 1st cylon "Skinjob" was made in the likeness of Apollo(the original from the old series). That's right, Oringinal Apollo's likeness became a CYLON.
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so I wont just gonna say best episode of the series BY FAR i literally screamed HOLY SHIT in the theatre
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SciFi announces that Final 10 episodes will be airing as 5 special 2 hour movies in January 2009,2010,2011,2012,2013. Final cylon is said to be Frank, a television repairman who appeared in episode 3 of season 1 played by a then unknown Travis Van Winkle (Meet the Spartans).
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...is an interesting quote, indeed. Refers to Death: D'Anna has her Five encounters while Dead, they just indicated that now that Cylons can no longer download, and everyone can die, that it means "there is no difference" (to quote Sharon, speaking to D'Anna) between Human and Cylon. "Death" has a lot of significance with respect to Starbuck's Maestrom entry and return.
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According to the Pythia, she doesn't reach Earth, right? So isn't her death an inevitability based on the idea that 'What has happened before will happen again'<p> At this point, the 5th Cylon is meaningless to me. Yes, he or she may have info for getting to Earth, but in terms of character reaction, we've pretty much seen it already from the Final Four of Five.<p> ...unless the Final Fifth knew it all along
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Don't give the brainless suits at SciFi any ideas--jeez, man, your sarcasm is their idea of brilliance! After all, they still think wrestling is science fiction.....
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What I find interesting is that the colonists fled the Lords of Kobol ... but where did the Lords go? Did they all (except for the Cylon God, perhaps) die? Are they on Earth? Etc
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sweeping pull back out and out, view of the entire galaxy, pull back pull back....<p>the galaxy is in a pendant formerly worn by a cat (the lawyer's cat?), but is now on a chain and dangling from Linda Fiorentino's neck.....<p>Linda Fiorentino..... (sigh)
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June 12, 2008, 2:26 p.m. CST
chrth--seems like Roslin has to die, but the dead reappear
by chromedome
the priestess still shows up, Starbuck "died" but was not out of the show. Could be Roslin dies, only to find herself ON Earth, waiting for the rest when they arrive. They may have set us up for that when she shared the death vision with the other woman, on the ferry, seeing all her family and friends again.<p>It is also possible, but not likely in my judgement, that NatalieSix is actually the dying leader who points them to earth--she pointed them in the direction of the Final Five, said they were in the fleet, knew the way to earth, and offered cooperation in finding them via unboxing D'Anna. If Natalie is the prophesied dying leader, then Roslin could be off the hook.<p>I do recall the phrase "dying leader" popping up all the time throughout the series--dying does not necessarily mean dead: did they quote a Pythia verse that specifically said the leader dies and does not make it to earth, does anyone recall?
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I concur: the What or the True Nature of the Fifth is, in my view, much more significant than the Who.<p>I suspect the Who part may be that the Fifth has been appearing freely as many different (InHeads, NotLeoben, others) or "occupying/inspiring" others as needed. As the Watchtower music may have been "projected" into the minds of the Four, almost anything could be projected. Six made a point of explaining to Baltar that Cylons project the "reality" that suits them individually, and they showed them standing in a corridor, but she was out in the forest... Projection has definitely been established within the rules of the show.<p>I think it is also worth remember a scripture quote from the Jupiter episode (that was repeated at least TWICE within that episode): The Five Serve The One....
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1) Gaeta<br><br> or<br><br> 2) Gaius<br><br> or<br><br> 3) A metaphor for the inevitable self-sufficiency of the Centurion Cylons.<br><br>
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RDM said he locked in on the God Is Love concept<p>And the priestess spent a fair amount of time getting Roslin to open herself to Love last week.<p>InHead Six kept telling Baltar about God's Love, and now Baltar is telling everyone else (even Centurions! :-) Much of the Cylon motivation seems to be around feeling Love.<p>I guess Love will be the theme of the whole show. Gotta keep that in mind as we go forward....
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The Dying Leader (Battlestar Wiki) Elosha: "And the lords anointed a leader to guide the Caravan of the Heavens to their new homeland." (The Hand of God) Elosha: She also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land. (The Hand of God) Roslin: The scriptures tell us a dying leader lead humanity to the promised land. (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I)
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writer of the penultimate wkrp epi...the thanksgiving epi...and abe vigoda still lives
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Chromedome, remember your "Pants for Baltar!" battle cry?!<p>Just in case, be prepared to take action once again!
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I think a big part of the praise heaped on Season 1, is because it came as such a suprise. The original mini was okay, but "33" was one of the best season/series premieres ever. plus, it was a niche product with a cult following. Season two built on the great cliffhanger of the first season, and pushed the mythology of the show further. By late season 2, the show was being more recognized by the mainstream, getting critical acclaim, and some awards recognition. <p> Of course, the masses love to build something up, just to tear it down once it becomes popular, hence all the "...sucks" posts in the BSG threads. It the quality suffered at all in my mind, it was probably related to the writer's strike throwing things slightly out-of-whack, coupled with my own by-that-time, ridiculous expectations. Ad to that, the long painful gaps SciFi forces us to suffer through, and people get disgruntled. I for one still find it the best thing currently on TV, and One of the best things Ever aired.
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Backatcha, MNG and Chromedome!<p>Can you boys believe it's the "mid-season" break already?
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unlike my memory....
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There were a bunch of shitty episodes towards the end of the season (Billy dying ep, "Black Market"). Thank the Gods In-Head Baltar arrived to save the day.
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that it's a lot like Caprica. Then they realize they are the true descendants of Earth.
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...(as alluded to by Chromedome's comment about Roslin waiting for everyone on Earth after she dies) would be the ultimate expression of the "Love" theme.<p>Good one, Chromie.
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Yup, I remember Pants for Baltar! and it worked!! I also remember MNG's promise to send me an Eight: checkin every day since--no 5 foot 6 in tall Crate of Cuteness has been delivered. I have withdrawn my "Keel Haul Helo!" battlecry, but have not yet abandoned my Hybrid Theory. Anyone happen to notice that, even though far away, the Hybrid knew when NatalieSix was "back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream" (this has all happened before and will happen again), and also knew as soon as D'Anna was back online? Lotsa insider knowledge, the Hybrids have....
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...then the destruction of the Resurrection Hub would have much deeper meaning.
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garbage, I'll be pretty dissapointed.
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It's that good? Those are some really eps that you list.
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She says she's an angel of God, but has she really helped out Baltar or the fleet in any way?
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Actually makes sense. The colonists left Kobol because of some inter-Lord fighting (said fighting happening because one of the Lords wanted dominance over the others). Earth colonists went a different way entirely, because they were led by the one "true Lord" of Kobol, who I'll call the Dirklon for ease of typing ;) . After the first Cylon War, the Cylons stumbled upon Earth, where they were embraced by Dirklon, who became the Cylon God to them.<p> Extending it further: the Final Five Cylons were created on Earth/Cylon homeworld, but the others weren't, thus the Five know the way to Earth AND serve the one (i.e. Dirklon). The Four simply don't know that the Cylon Homeworld is Earth, but the Final Fifth is the one who DOES know it.
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...on the other hand, will stand strong forever!
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Well, yeah, I imagine they're networked in to everything for obvious reasons. D'Anna's 'resurrection' had to occur via a computing process, so the hybrid would've registered it happening. Natalie's death occured before the Hub went blammo, so the return of her mindpatterns to the resurrecting buffer would've been noted as well ("You've Got Cylon!")
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He sent out the hybrids into the Cylons to try and out the final five?
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Why did the Hybrid want to help destroy the resurrection hub? I find that odd. Is it simply that her conversation with Starbuck triggered an embedded signal to work with the 'this has all happened before' meme and therefore the resurrection hub destruction is necessary?
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fans that saw this already. Jealous also. Lucky bastards. :)
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...would probably have an entirely different type of Cylon and Cylon society IMHO, one where Cylons, the human descendants, the 13th tribe(Cylon or human), and the Lords of Kobol all embrace the "Love" theme RDM mentioned.<p>Taken to the extreme, it would also be a world where those who not embrace love are EXILED until they change their wicked ways.
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Oh, Gods yes. Her ministrations during the Cylon torture helped him to not only escape the torture, but to bag a menage with 3. That right there more than makes up for anything negative or neutral she's done.
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someone forgot to unplug the coffee maker on Caprica. Have to head back. Don't want a fire to start.
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Yup, i was wondering the same thing: Hybrid WAILED in Anguish against abandoning the virus-infected basetar and occupants--but seemed to run off after the resurrection hub without hesitation: I say it is because the Hybrids are linked in to the Larger Plan for both Human and Cylon.<p>As for knowing about NatalieSix, I am not sure I agree that, since it was before the hub went all splodey, it was just normal information. They had explained that the Hub coordinated all the Resurrection Ships, and it seemed clear from earlier eps that the local "ship" had been destroyed, and they were, in that area, too far from any other ship to download. Plus, it seemed like NatalieSix's death was taking her Somewhere Else. So, it may just be that the Hybrid noticed that Natalie was Just Gone.<p>However, with the Hub's coordinates closely guarded, and moving all the time, and so MANY jumps away, for the Hybrid to have Instant knowledge of D'Anna's status was interesting, I thought.<p>There is more to the Hybrids than meets the eye, so say I....
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Can't wait to see just how the Galactica 4 will be outed to the rest of the rag-tag fleet--- and just where their allegiances will lie, with the Humans or their Cylon brethren? (But I'm hoping to see Tory sidling up to D'eanna for that BSG update of the Xena/Gabrielle special "relationship"--- only this time Lucy's the blonde...)
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I really hope the final Cylon is not an actor from the new 'Caprica' spin-off. That would be so cheap. Like introducing Jack Tripper's fiancee at the end of 'Three's Company' just before 'Three's A Crowd' started.
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Is Earth gonna turn out to be Discworld?
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IMHO it is worth putting a tag on your theory about Natalie dying before the hub went ka-plooie for further consideration, but TPTB made such a big fuss over her death, having her see a world with trees and sky and so forth. It does "appear" that she's a goner.<p>But hey, I'm certain that alot of TBers would not have thought about it had you not mentioned it.
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I was just saying that the Hybrid may have been aware of her death because it happened before Hub kablooie. I don't think there was time for her to get a new body before the kablosion.
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http://tinyurl.com/3krojn Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet (I can't read the talkback until tomorrow) but he says a LOT of interesting stuff. Seems he isn't really feeling some of what the writers are doing to his character.
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She wouldn't help Baltar unless he admitted that she was there to help him.
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Very enlightening. Thanks CarmillaVonDoom. Baltar can't be a TRUE believer. He just can't. He needs more complexity these days. I knew it!!
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Callis has been playing the same beats for a few years now. I understand why he's so frustrated. Other characters on the show grow and change, but Baltar is still a jerk.
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3+6-Pain = Happy Baltar.
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He's no longer snivelling or conniving. He's no fun.
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Baltar doesn't believe what he's selling, at least he didn't at first. He was mocking his followers. Seems like he just wants that 'tang. All of his motives are based on self-preservation. Everything he's ever done. Taking Helo's spot off of Caprica, fixing the Cylon detector because he thought he was one, letting the Cylons use him on new Caprica, hiding with his cult...
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But he was funnier in Season 1 with Head Six hanging all over him.
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...at the earliest. Best case scenario, we are looking at January. Didn't we hear this last time? Be back at the start of the year, then it was pushed back. Son of a bitch. An entire football season is going to pass before we get new BSG. Bogus. Love the show, but these breaks are making tough to give a shit anymore.
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...must ... resist ... google ...
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Can you pause while watching (like if someone actually bothers me with 'work')?
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I don't want the thread to disappear
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Are we allowed to start discussing the ep after the live stream tomorrow morning?
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Unless ... to the Copy/Paste button!
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WTF is a "Mid-Season Finale"? There's your problem right there. There SHOULDN'T BE A MID-SEASON FINALE but hey, the pinheads at Sci-Fi Channel seem to think we need 'em. Seriously, everyone needs to boycott this POS "network" until they get new board members who actually care to smell what they're shoveling. If they had any serious competition, they wouldn't be pulling this crap. They'll finance such classics as MANSQUITO but drag a respected series out and split its seasons (ABC is guilty of this, too) making fans wait 8-12 months between season halves. Pure awesomeness. I wanna be a network exec when I'm all growed up.
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...for misreading your Natalie post. Still, good point about the Hybrid's awareness.
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As I've mentioned many, many times before ... I'm going to greenlight a popular genre show that takes place in a Rib Joint, and cancel it every season regardless of ratings. Then after the Ribs come in from the fans, I'll bring it back ...<p> and chow down on some sweet tasty ribs
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He gets everyone.
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Wake up you crazy bastard!
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...that Herc linked to above? They're kind of cool in a retro way.
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Is it a Cylon freshie? Or lightship upgrade?
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but, dammit, Those Vipers Won't Fix Themselves!!<p>if they had a Sharon/Boomer/Athena/Eight version of Know Your Cylons, I would paper the walls with em!
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http://tinyurl.com/67q2ya<p>right now!
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hate to disagree (ok maybe not) but since the end of season 2 I've found BSG to be EXACTLY like Star Trek. <p> When I used to watch Trek, I knew it was gonna suck, but I would hope against hope that maybe just maybe it would be good - or at least ok... <p> and it sucked <p> and so far season 3 and 4 have had exactly ONE good episode each. <p> and here's this review telling me "it's not gonna suck" and I'll watch - hoping against hope...
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I ruined myself.
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Ha! Somehow, I don't doubt it. They would compliment the No. 8 that's been on backorder since gods know when...
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Do you mean you soiled yourself?!
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Was this after you realized you were banned as gotham_night?
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Thanks for confirming.
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to wipe yourself with the cape.<p>I'm just sayin, is all....
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He's on here 24 hours a day.
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24 hours a day? Really? Care to back that up with any evidence?<P>Because last I saw, you were the one actually looking for a job, remember? Don't throw your insecurities on me because you'd rather post one-liners on AICN all day than be a productive member of society.<P>Don't mean to sound cruel but, seriously, get with the program.
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Does it give you some pride to your fat ass that you play mod in every thread?
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June 12, 2008, 10:23 p.m. CST
One last spoiler: the name of the Cylon Resurrection Hub...
by BurnHollywood
The CSS Contrivance. May she rest in pieces.
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never comment on the actual topic.
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And shame on you, MNG. I've told you multiple times now just to ignore these sorts of argument.
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He thinks he's some big AICN talkback contributer.
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Ah, see? That's where you're wrong. I don't care.<P>Quote: "follow people around in every thread"<P>Bullshit. Look at my screenname...I'm in a BSG thread. Where else would I be?!<P>Quote: "never comment on the actual topic"<P>Bullshit again. You should READING some of my posts in the various threads on this site. I know you have the time for it.
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chrth - True dat. Word.<P>Batman_Cape - sorry to wind you up, fella. I didn't realize it was so easy.<P>Well, this TB is going on blackout until I see the mid-season finale episode. I hope it's every bit as good as Herc claims. Until then, gentlemen. So Say We All.
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Really, you're trying to look like the victim and it gets old. Go ahead and get me banned again. I really don't care to read your shit every day anyway.
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Wha?
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you are incredibly annoying and dont bust Gaius's balls. its not nice. go fuck yourself
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I didn't get you banned. I don't even know what you did to get banned. Lost Jarv pointed it out in the INDY script thread.<P>It's pretty tough to get banned on AICN. So, whatever you did, that's your problem - not mine.<P>Do carry on.
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goes off on other people. He's an asshole.
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While the Hendrix version is better known, it's a Bob Dylan song.
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Actually he's just stating a fact. God dont be a baby.
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everyone should follow his stellar postings every day. Harry should rename this place Aint it Cool to Read Gauis' posts
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Go to the Office Spinoff thread. They're discussig spinoffs, and what does Herc first say was a great one? Angel? NO. DS9.<p> Poor, poor Joss
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I missed that. What was the context?
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It was the song the Final Four heard/sung along to when they got activated.
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I missed that episode. I thought they heard music but I didn't know they heard "All Along The Watchtower." That is odd. Did they recognize the song?
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Or at least, no one said "Wow, I can't believe we're hearing last year's number one hit as a Cylon triggering device"<p> It opened up a can of worms because, you know, it's a 'modern' (relatively speaking) Earth song. But TPTB said that it's not a clue about the time relationship to Earth.
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That should have had one-legged Gaeta singing something odd then. The weird intrusions of well-known artists are intriguing. I knew of the Shakespeare quote and it really threw me when I heard it. Adama is also always reading those mystery stories to Rosalind--I'm not familiar with them but I wonder if they are Raymond Chandler or something like that.
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Took me an hour to clean my computer with Ad-Aware. Thanks.
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Nothing to say but it's ok
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Just WRAP IT UP! Just end the fuckin' story. Get to the end. Get to Earth, break out the 1980s fashions and flying motorcycles and be done with it. Btw, the last Cylon is Muffit 2 the Robot Dog from the original (and funnier / campier / stupider) series. <br><br>Btw, are there ANY characters on this show who demonstrate any kind of humor at all? Why is EVERY single character a brooding sourpuss? I like BSG, but it really feels like the writers aren't quite sure how to write characters who demonstrate recognizable human attributes; like using humor to deal with terrifying situations rather than brooding endlessly and screaming "frak" at each other, which, I have on good authority, is how spacemen say "fuck." Duh.
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Im officailly ten times more psyched than before!!
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97 minutes until the talkback EXPLODES
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Site still states only "10 minute" sneak peek. We will find out in a few minutes, I guess.
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So I'm guessing it's the full episode
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If humanity can recover from the destruction of the colonies like the Celtics came back against the Lakers after being down 24 points, then the future of the human race in the BSG universe will be bright.
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Granted, Road Playoff Comeback is rarer, but I've seen more 20+ comebacks than I can count (and I know exponential notation).
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I was on the wrong page, I guess. What I was seeing was not what I am seeing now. That, or the coffee is kicking in.
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I'm hanging out on AICN waiting to watch a BSG episode streamed online while listening to the Penny-Arcade/PVP Podcast where they're playing 4th Edition D&D.<p> MY GEEK FU IS STRONG!
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Sigh. Better hit the head and get a soda now.
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C'mon, c'mon, download!
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Maybe that means I'll be ok
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Watch the ep, live comment, and not get fired? Let's find out!
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Father's Day weekend!
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Gaeta is a pizza boy!
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Anders: Oh Gods yes
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When Baltar had sex with Tory, all of his conniving passed to her. Damn you Tory. Damn you.
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The Crappening
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You didn't even know until you got to the Nebula
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Emmys for Tigh and Adama!
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Good stuff.
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The son dealing with the alchy father who can't take care of himself
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But, seriously, Kara, pick up a damn phone next time
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Not watching, not staying in this TB for anymore than 30 seconds, cuz I don't wanna be spoiled. ;) Hope it's as good as Herc says it is. <p> See ya after the finale tonight.
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"working" huh?
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DIRKLON!
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Oh, Lee, you are such a wordsmith! But how dare you tangle with fate?
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SPOILER******** <p> <p> <p> <p> <p> <p> The last cylon is NOT with the fleet?
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Waiting for other shoe to drop in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... (damn the music is great though)
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WHY THE MYSTERY?
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They didn't stop Peter!
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Huh, let's see ... where to start ...
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Was it?
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I didn't recognize any landmarks, EXCEPT, I think they were standing in the Temple of Aurora
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of the Statue of Liberty.
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Like we didn't see that coming. Shame we have to wait 9 months to a year to see how it all shakes out.
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the first scifi.com feed is completed. grab your gun and bring in the cat.
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The crosses? <p> By the way, much apologies for those who wish to remain unspoiled. Not going to happen in this talkback.
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... a cat
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Filler episode to the max! Come on! <p> <p> <p> ;)
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That was depressing.
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Fine performances by all. The scene where they get to Earth was touching and I almost welled up, but like chrth I kept thinking, well when does the rug get pulled? Didn't take long....
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Major props to Tigh and Tyrol this episode, and it was great to see Baltar in action with D'Anna.<p> And the music was phenomenal.<p> As for the content ... well ... let's put those in different posts
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You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to Hell!
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That is the true cliffhanger...
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I was able to work during the commercials
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I am definitely watching this again after lunch. <p> However, I am beginning to wonder a few things. 1) If I did hear correctly, the final cylon is not with the fleet. If this is the case, it is on Earth. Or is it? <p> More importantly, what are they going to do for the other episodes? Other than make a new home and find the final Cylon. <p> I am rambling.
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There aren't many episodes left, so there's really not much left to do. I'm wondering if the main "argument" for the remainder of the show will be whether to look for the remnants of the 13th tribe? This might have to do with Roslin dying before reaching the Promised Land.<p> I'm honestly not sure what they're going to do moving forward. I'm stunned they found Earth so soon this season.
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Watching BSG at work! The man!
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Doesn't seem like a lot of people watched it? Music was as good as 3rd season finale's. Not sure what to talk about the ending though. Is Ron Moore showing us his atheism?
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Why were they led to Earth if it had been destroyed? *Something* programmed the Cylons and Viper and the Pythia to point the way to Earth. I'm going to work on a theory, give me ten minutes.
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IS STARBUCK DEAD?
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There are so many holes in this storyline it is hard to sit back and enjoy it. <br><br>They can't rebuild the resurrection hub? Starbuck can't use a phone? <br><br>I really wonder what they are going to do with the other 10 episodes though? I've said it before but there is a lot of stuff in this season that should have been left on the cutting room floor. If this would have been episode 8 it would be much tighter and fulfulling. I'm afraid now that the next 10 episodes are also going to be full of digressions and slowly wandering plots. <br><br>When this season is finally done I hope someone does a fan edit and takes the 20 hours and cuts it down to something like 10-12.<br><br>If Dualla hooks up with Gaeta, it will be lame. <br><br>so regarding the final cylon. Diana said it wasn't in the fleet. So does that mean that a)it isn't someone we know? b)it is someone who is dead? or c)it was someone already on the basestar (such as the President or Baltar? Both of whom were in the last supper pick and so are supposed to be ruled out). My bet is someone who is "dead."
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Sylar is the final Cylon. Or maybe Locke. Or Jack Bauer. Or Rainbow Brite. or Smurfette. Seriously---Galactica has run out of steam---very sad.
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Something designed the path to Earth. The Pythia points out the markers, and the Temple - Nebula - Viper sequence was obviously planned by someone. One of the questions I've repeatedly asked is 'How did the Pythia know?' Granted, the answer could be mysticism, but let's set that aside because there's not way to theorize down that path.<p> But let's see how Earth looks now: Pretty bad. And it may have been pretty bad for awhile. So how does this sound:<p> The Pythia and all the markers were created by someone(s) fleeing Earth before or during or maybe even after the devastation. They wanted the colonists to find their way to Earth because ... because why?<p> All this has happened before and will happen again ... the Cylons were originally created on Earth, maybe, and uh ... damn. I'm not seeing it. I think I'm going to need more than 10 minutes.
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She just got more exercise than she honestly needed this episode
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perhaps the final cylon is on Caprica. Remember in the mini-series the scene with 6 turning and facing the camera and saying 'about time you showed up.' Could be the final cylon knows a way to inhibit ther other cylons from knowing his/her identity or maybe 6 is programmed or manipulated by the final cylon. Perhaps the final cylon is President Adar? Supposedly everything is supposed to tie back to the beginning once the final cylon is revealed.
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Right there with you. I was picking up the Gaeta / Duella vibe myself. <p> You sure this isn't Young and the Restless? There certainly seems to be a lot of "swapping" going on.
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June 13, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST
OK, for the record -- what did we really see on Earth.
by capnfancypants
Herc, Chrth et al -- What is your interpretation of what we saw? I saw disillusionment, surprise... maybe dejection. I saw a radiological meter seeming to indicate that the ground was partially radioactive (possibly indicating some sort of nuclear holocaust)... and then I saw structures... I think. To be honest, it was hard to describe what those structures were or whether they were ruins or... something. But, since we're already discussing element of the epi-- Herc, you no doubt saw a better version with better resolution than we did online -- what did you see on Earth?
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Remember, not everyone evacuated. Hey, that could be a plot device: the surviving Cavils (and his aligned Cylons) and Boomer go back to New Caprica (why? how should I know?) and find the Final Fifth, who knows the way ... to Eden.
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There are still a lot of things unanswered. What about the other Cylons? What about the whole harbinger of the doom? Geiger counter was a nice touch.
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yeah. Other Cavils, Simons, and Dovals will probably be showing up to take on the renegades/Colonials and Earth. Ron Moore stated that he wanted to watch the budget b/c there will be an epic battle with 'fast fast action' in the final episode.
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...if jccalhoun is correct, and I believe so, doesn't that likely point to one particularly cute little lady who got airlocked by one of her own final five ...previously, on Battlestar Gallactica? Just a thought.
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A planet that had self-destructed, via nuclear war or similar. The ruins were just that, ruins. I'm convinced they landed in the Temple of Aurora because Lee mentioned it out of freaking nowhere earlier in the episode. I don't think it was a 'current Earth city', I think it's more likely the ruins of a civilization that predates our own (that should make Graham Hancock happy).
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looked like a modern/future new york to me.
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Why is the show going so easy on the Cylons any more? I mean the a human was airlocked by the Cylons with no repercussions AT ALL!
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Do it in High Def this time, see what I can see on earth.
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Damn you early viewers. Damn you all to Hell. :)<P>I'm not going to read a damn thing you guys have posted. But keep the homefires burning for the rest of us. This TB should be epic.
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Do you have access to scifi feed sir? If so, join the dark side and watch it sir. Rewatch it tonight.
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at the Cinerama Dome. those are wrecked skyscrapers in the background, and lots of them. There are no familiar-looking buildings, suggesting BSG is set in our far future.
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Although I'm more convinced they're in the Temple of Aurora than before. I'll watch the beginning to take a look at the pic Lee sees. Definitely Roman-style architecture where they were, and looked like a dome. I'll compare.
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worshiping my dad Zeus and the other real gods. Jesus and Mohammad are just groovy fads.
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(Dammit, Graham Hancock is going to send me a love letter if I don't stop bringing that up)<p> The radiation, however, sort of mucks with that, although at low-enough levels it might be hard for modern scientists to distinguish from other sources.
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A very intense episode. It ends on a big question. I thought it would be a bigger "holy shit" moment but it goes out very quietly... which still demands a ton of questions. I hope the wait isn't too long.
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Yah, I ran the last five minutes through my HD -- I saw the skyscrapers... but, in that last shot -- I do believe I saw the outline of a very familiar bridge on the far right side of the screen. Given the climate of the world today, I guess I have to wonder if the producers mean for this to be seen as occurring in the _far_ future or if we are to look at this whole narrative as a warning about our more immediate future (I mean there must have been at least 6 different repeats of the Happening during the break... that can't be that coincidental *laughs*). If all of Battlestar gets turned into one gigantic political statement concerning our looking for extra-terrestrial life... all the while neglecting our own lives to the point where we destroy each other -- only for ETs to come home to us (because they blew themselves all to hell)... huh, actually -- that's not too bad of sci-fi now that I think about it! Game on!
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The Exodus takes place 2000 years before the miniseries. So the only way the 13th Tribe could be the original settlers of Earth would be if it took place in the past ...<p> Unless maybe the 13th Tribe weren't the original settlers of Earth? Ok, wait I found this on Battlestar Wiki:<p> Several clues point to Earth as the true homeworld of humanity. As the Fleet approaches Earth, the artifacts they encounter become more ancient. The ruins on Kobol are 2,000 years old, the Lion's Head nebula beacon is 3,000 years old, and the Temple of Five is dated to 4,000 years. <p> So Earth first, then Kobol, then back to Earth. Maybe not everyone left Earth for Kobol, and when the 13th Tribe arrived, there was a conflict.
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Her sibs are Sol and Luna, and she once boned the prince of Troy.
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You know something might fancy about that weird Temple of Aurora mention and the final scene! Spill it, Laborsboy!
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Could you narrow it down? Priam did have 50 sons you know
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Pic was too fast to pick out specific details, but it was by a river
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...and comparing it to the landing crew, specifically the people they focus on. They show, (in order) Bill, Laura, D'Anna, Helo, Athena, Anders, Tori, Apollo, 6, Baltar, Tyrol, Tigh, Dee, Leoben and Starbuck. In the last supper photo are Bill, Laura, Helo, Athena, Anders, Apollo, 6, Baltar, Tyrol, Tigh and Starbuck. That leaves out D'Anna, Tori, Dee and Leoben. Since D'Anna, Tori and Leoben are known Cylons....that leaves only...Dee. This is all grasping for straws, just tossing out ideas. I'm still pulling for Doc Coddle for my vote as final Cylon, and that he's also aware of it, and orchestrating many of the events in the show...
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The survivors of Earth, led by the Lords of (to-be-named) Kobol, go to Kobol to rebuild their existence. Generations pass, and the reasons for leaving Earth (reimagined as a sort of Eden) are forgotten. The 13th tribe is made up of those who believe their destiny lies with Earth, and head there and find it destroyed, they then move on to ... ?
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Roslin: If you're a Cylon, I'd like to know.<p> Adama: If I'm a Cylon, you're really screwed
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ca. 4,000 years BCH (Before Cylon Holocaust): The Thirteenth Tribe reportedly leaves Kobol and builds the Temple of Five on another planet<p> ca. 3,000 years BCH: A beacon is left at the Lion's Head Nebula, later marking the way to Earth. At some undated point, someone travels from Earth to Kobol, passing on information about Earth, including a map of its night sky <p> ca. 3,600 years BCH: Pythia records her prophecies <p> ca. 2,000 years BCH: The remaining Twelve Tribes leave Kobol <p>
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June 13, 2008, 10:29 a.m. CST
It got a little dusty in here when Adama made the announcement a
by guyoverthere
I'm just saying.
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So say we all. <p> <-----real man
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My vote is for Jesus Zoidberg as last Cylon. I think at one point they called the four, "the frakkin four." After hearing final five so many times this season it was a welcome change for my ears. Saul Tigh is way too awesome. Per Saul's conversation with Adama, it will be interesting to see whether the writers elaborate on the differences between the five and the seven. How or when did they come to be on Earth? Time to settle in for 7+ months of wait.
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Was Saul in his quarters? Or was he "banished" to the Basestar? It looked like his room, but I wanted to get your impressions.
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Everyone else seems to have made peace with the Final Four Cylon status (Tyrol was in his room, and Anders was with Kara).
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My theory (which is not to say that others could not or have not thought of this) is that the actual cycle of creating new life and merging with that new life has happened before. Thousands of years in the past mankind created cylons or cylon creatures who they eventually fought with decimating each other and then finally merging with to produce hybrid babies. Cylon code is in the DNA, which is why and how the four cylons are cylons. ALos the ancient reference to cylon creatures.
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Could be in the fleet NOW. What D'Anna said was that 4 were in the fleet. That means the fifth was not with the fleet when she said it -- therefore, the fifth could have been on the basestar. So it could be Roslin, Baltar, Helo, one of the pilots, etc....
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the Admiral of course!
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Must stop reading, must wait to see it in HD tonight. MUST STTTTTOPPPPPPP!!!!
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Other than pointing starbuck toward her Viper, what were they needed for?
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My memory is shoddy, but in the last scene wasn't this the first time that Baltar and Caprica Six were in the same place (not counting an inaccessible brig on Galactica)? You think they might have said an akward hello or something. Maybe that happened on the ship ride down.
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Wish I'd seen it on the big screen with the Earth landing and all.<p>Who knows, maybe the TV movie/movies will do a special theatrical screening where we get to see Earth in all its glory.<p>This is up there with the best of the recent blockbusters. IMHO skeptics who see this will find their faith restored. Powerful story telling and excellent visuals.<p>BTW it was so engrossing that watching it on my computer screen was not an issue at all.
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...blew themselves up, and the survivors leave Earth to find the twelve colonies, they arrive at Caprica and find the twelve colonies destroyed?
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You're forgetting they were reunited on New Caprica and hung out together for most of the 3rd season
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Yeah, I remembered that part, but she was the reason he was put on trial, so they at least set it up that she still cared about him. Perhaps the feelings were transferred to Eye-Patch.
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Yes and no. One possible storyline is Tyrol finding out Tori offed his woman. I doubt they will pursue it, but you never know. <p> The more I think about the happenings here, the more questions come up and the more I think there is no way to wrap up all of the loose strings. <p> All in all, a very fine episode.
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1) The remaining 'bad' Cylons (as well as the Cylon homeworld)<p> 2) What happened to Earth?<p> 3) What happened to the 13th tribe?<p> 4) What happened to the Lords of Kobol?<p> 5) Who or What are the In-Head Baltar, Six, and Leoben?<p> 6) What destruction is Kara Thrace leading everyone to?<p> 7) Why isn't Roslin dead (yet)? Will she die?<p> 8) The Final Fifth<p> 9) How have the Final Five "been to Earth"?<p> 10) Who is the 'jealous god'? Is it the Cylon god? Lord of Kobol?<p> 11) Are they going to Keel Haul Helo?<p> 12) Is Lee going to get a haircut?<p> 12 loose strings, 12 episodes remaining
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He should've been able to visit with her. He seems to have moved past her (and she past him).
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12) (Replacing Lee needing a haircut) What's the deal with Hera? What's the secret of the Opera House?
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SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!********* <p> " How does it end, spoiler-boy? With the survivors, stunned into silence." A great understatement, sir.
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1) Caprica Six's pregnancy<p>(2) Is this really Earth?<p>(3)When will the Hybrid speak about the current state of affairs<p>(4)Why didn't Elosha appear to Roslin during the jump?<p>(5)What do the centurions know, but are not telling?<p>(6)Why is another TBer trying to ape my handle?!:^)
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The view is unmistakable. They are standing in the remains of Columbia Heights, Brooklyn at the base of what was the bridge, looking out at what was Manhattan. The geiger counter would seem to imply destruction by nuclear war. And no, I don't believe the cylons did it. It would be like Moore to point out our obvious penchant for destroying ourselves.
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..while in orbit, the cloud cover was so dense that you couldn't make out any discernible land masses or point out any continents....."Hey, that's South America" or "Look, there's India". Hmmmmmmmm.
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Was hoping someone familiar with the area would speak up, I've never been to NYC, so it was hard to tell for sure.
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Odds are that's exactly what we saw. It wasn't the only modern architecture shown either. Anyone else catch the demolished skyscrapers in the distance? Something tells me this all took place in the near future. The signs - radiation, buildings, wreckage - point to a nuclear holocaust. I'm afraid that still doesn't explain what I thought to be ancient columns shown halfway through the montage.<p> And by the way, if Ron and David get what they want, those loose ends should definitely be answered in the (three?) post-Galactica TV movies.
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Is being drawn to Scifi.com to watch the episode. And FRAKIT it's so slow today at work, I have no reason not to. It's almost time.....
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After watching the episodes, the loose ends that are to be tied up in the last 10 episodes should in no way be allowed to air until 2009. Because of the way it ended that wait is much too long and would be a disservice for those who have stayed with the show since the beginning.<p>It would be much more fitting to bring it back sometime in the fall - that is unless Sci Fi is broadcasting the TV movies this fall BEFORE the final ten episodes air.<p>So says this BSG fan.
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I take it no one died since it hasn't been mentioned yet. What kind of hour long drama has a finale where a main character doesnt die? That just isnt done anymore.
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Then that means that the Thirteenth Tribe will be arriving here shortly (within next couple hundred years), and we're seeing 4000 years into the future.
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All this way to find out "War is not the answer"? <br><br> Granted, there still are a bunch of episodes left, but color me unimpressed that the denouement turns out to be a cross between the end of THE PLANET OF THE APES and a U2 album cover. <br><br>Herc managed to raise my expectations pretty high, and despite the tension over whether Tigh would get airlocked, I was disappointed. Let's talk about why, and here's where I turn into a philistine: <br><br> Not only do I come to BATTLESTAR GALACTICA with the hope of deep character and thematic exploration, and all the rest of all that highbrow junk, I want to be entertained on a more basic level. I want to be impressed by the ingenuity of the writers -- something that they've been able to serve up from time to time -- I want to be thrilled by their audacity. I feel like I didn't get that here, at least not the audacity I was looking for. Again, the story is not over, and there's probably a real denouement in store for the real end of the series that might bowl me over. But but this is still a large wrap for so much of the story, and considering the way it was presented and where it stands in relation to the rest of the episodes (no new ones for a good long while), this was a BIG statement. And it was like coming to the end of a mystery, and finding out that the butler did it. <br><br> Plus, I thought the transitions from Adama learning about Tigh, to Adama having a conniption, to a drunken heap of Adama being cradled by his son were too abrupt. I know they had no time to waste, but we should have lived through that a little more.
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Agree, I definitely think they screwed up the pacing the first half of the season. This should've been a two-parter, in my opinion, and maybe they shouldn't have taken a whole ep to get to the mutiny everyone saw coming.
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I am a huge fan of the show, but I have felt let down this season. The final few minutes felt under whelming to me. They've been to planets with ruins before, why couldn't then be considered Earth also? It just didn't feel special enough.
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When she first came to Earth, did she scout the surface?
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What were you expecting? What would have been been satisfied with?
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6) What destruction is Kara Thrace leading everyone to? Earth has been destroyed. She led them there. That's pretty much "leading them to destruction."
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Didn't she say it was like the projection on kobol? I may be remembering wrong, but I thought she said she walked through grass too. If she saw a devastated planet, I think she would have said earth sucks - the planet is dead, don't go there. So did she not land on earth, or is it that her memories are false and planted in her mind like the false childhood of Boomer?
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I agree with chrth, I think it makes more sense if Earth, in the show, is the original home of humanity, and not Kobol, and that the human origin stories are incorrect (wouldn't be the first time histories passed down over a couple thousand years fudge a few of the "details"). Perhaps the conflict that destroyed humanity on Earth sparked the exodus to Kobol or a returning colony from Kobol sparked the conflict. I am a little leery about placing the conflict so far since the buildings should have decayed by now, but the radiation may have delayed the process (by inhibiting plant growth). The city depicted is definitely NYC. The Brooklyn Bridge is a dead give-away. Why use such an iconic bridge and it isn't NYC, unless this is some other city in the future that bought the Brooklyn Bridge, a la the London Bridge in Lake Havasu, but that is really stretching it, IMHO. I am glad I am not the only one who thought of the Planet of the Apes. I wonder what happened to the Statue of Liberty. And how dare some religious wackos replace the fun stuff on Coney Island with a church. The ending also reminded me of The Return of the King. Just when you think it is over, it just keeps going.
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Must remember to use paragraph breaks...<p> The above makes no sense other wise.
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The actual quote is "will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse. The harbinger of death. They must not follow her."<p>I don't read that as finding Earth depopulated, because the human race is not at its end.
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Well, earth has pretty much suffered an apocalypse. And leading them to it would make her the harbinger of death - just not theirs. The human race on earth looks pretty much ended - so if you look at the quote as a "Look in the mirror - this could very well be you - you're the problem" kinda way, then yeah, she has led the human race to its "end," or at least one of the possible ones. Mix that with "This has all happened before, it will all happen again" and it makes some kind of sense.
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It could be that Starbuck (directly or indirectly) is the cause of what they found.<p>And maybe there is more to come.
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They followed Kara, NOT THE FINAL FIVE! Someone asked above what the Final Five actually did to get them to Earth, and the answer is, honestly, nothing (unless their existence helped negotiate the truce blah blah blah). Why wasn't Kara returned until the Nebula? Because who/whatever returned her wanted to co-opt the Final Five being triggered!<p> Whoever is behind Kara's return is against the finding of the "true" Earth, which is probably where the 13th Tribe actually went once they found Earth destroyed [speculation]. They haven't found it yet, because they followed the wrong path.
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...time. When did Kara get to earth. There's a lot of time-related hijinks that have to be explained, not the least of which is her shiny new Viper, and the difference in time perception of how long she was gone vs. how long she thought she was gone. Entirely possible she could have been walking in the grass - 20 years before the nuclear war on Earth.
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Call me an idealist but I just don't see why SciFi can't follow in Jack Bauer's footsteps and release these movies during the 'mind-roastingly intense' hiatus. It'd certainly keep ME from slashing my wrists all those long months.<p> And judging by the look on Starbuck's face, Calico Pete, I'd say she only took a glimpse of the planet before returning to Galactica. That and...y'know, the fact that she conveniently forgot to mention IT WAS A WASTELAND! I keed, I keed.
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so if Starbuck is the Harbinger of death...and she visited Earth, its possible she was the cause of turning the planet into a wasteland....esp if theres some time thing going on. Perhaps the hybrid comments were about the 13th colony on earth, not the galactica fleet...
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There's no evidence of it. If Kara went to Earth at an earlier point in time (I'm going out on a limb and guessing the destruction on Earth is not THAT recent), then we're introducing a new concept into the BSG universe at a very late date.
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June 13, 2008, 2:04 p.m. CST
Put me down in the "They're there to start the human race over"
by Voice O. Reason
Nicky and Hera = Adam and Eve?
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It makes sense we came from Kobal which is why our past is similar with Greek and Roman gods. Then at some point we destroyed ourselves.
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Remember, the Earth that Kara visited had such splendor that it left her longing for it. The destruction has to be recent or this is not the same planet Kara went to.
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If radiation was involved, there was no way they'd be able to walk the surface so soon. While it's only my perception, I'm reasonably certain that the destruction they found has been there a long time.
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Roslin and Kira see a green bank. Natalie sees verdant trees. These are the glimpses of death/afterlife we've been shown on the show.<p> Now consider what the podcast told us when she returned: Kara DIED. And was returned. What if the splendor she saw was the one Roslin and Natalie glimpsed, not Earth?
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...But I would say that what's in the movie would make a big difference. Mayabe 24's approach to the TV movie would pale in comparison.<p>The movie or movies might be so 'mind-roastingly intense' you'd find it even harder to wait for the last ten episodes.
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Starbuck said that she had been to Earth and went on to explain how wonderful it was. She then goes on to say that she will take them there.<p>If it's not the afterlife (you could be right), and if it was Earth as an actual place she describes (are we sure she died?), then a MILLENNIAL event took place since the time of her visit.
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...Starbuck that I was referring to.<p>Chrth (dare I speak on his behalf) and I would appreciate it. ;-)
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The description Kara, angry: I followed a heavy Raider into the storm. Took some hits, passed out. When I came to, I was orbiting this planet. Its yellow moon and star matches the description in Pythia. I took these pictures in orbit. The star patterns match what we saw in the Tomb of Athena. Roslin: How did you get here? Starbuck: I told you, I don't know exactly. Roslin: Well, that's just not good enough, Captain. Tell us everything you remember. Starbuck: I remember taking the photos. Turning my ship in a reciprocal heading. And then I'm not sure. I must've blacked out again. I remember a giant gas planet with rings. I remember a flashing triple star. And a comet. And then I was back with the Fleet. The "taking them there stuff" is pretty standard stuff in 4x01 but i think there was more in her convo - at gunpoint - with Roslin in 4x02
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http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/battlestar/season4/galactica-402.htm transcripts of the episodes...
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the episode has "aired" in a sense with scifi showing it online already and continually till 4pm. Which means the ep is out there now and discussions are underway, i'd avoid this place as I doubt most of the rabid talkbackers will post without spoiler tags.
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I am pretty sure RDM has said before that he will never use aliens or time travel as story devices. So I think it's a waste of time to explore those.
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Battlestar Wiki presumes it's a misstatement (meant to say "moon and yellow star" and got confused by Lucky Charms, perhaps?) ... but what if it's not. We haven't seen the triple star or the ringed planet, have we?<p> I'm convinced they followed the wrong path.
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Two words... sand & vagina
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I have a busy afternoon planned, so I won't be able to contribute more until late this evening...but... <BR><BR>Someone mentioned that we hadn't received a "Gun on Ice Planet Zero" update episode. Well, they now have a perfect opportunity to use a left over weapon on Earth for that plot. <BR><BR>By the way, this episode was fucking awesome. Absolutely incredible.
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If its only this one city that's devastated, that's a cheap way to garner emotion. BSG is too complex to ignore the possible ramifications of a devastated Earth.
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I got the sense that the episode was really cut down from a longer, fuller cut. I mean, I know all episodes are cut down, but this one really felt like it would benefit from a slightly longer cut, like the DVD release of "Pegasus." The scenes with Bill's breakdown played well but I think they could have played better if we'd stayed with him (especially in the scene with Lee) a little longer. I like that the cliffhanger isn't like any of the previous bombastic ones. This one is much, much more quiet and contemplative. There's a serious sense of "what the FUCK do we do now" in this ending. It's amazing that there are at least 10 more episodes left... I'm assuming there's still a lot of Cavils, Dorals, and Simons out there looking for them...
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i'd like to think the writers won't be pulling a "ooo look, 100 miles away there are 6 billion people" intro at the start of the next episode. They showed one area as it encompassed a destroyed skyline and the remnants of the oft talked about theatre. Now I wouldn't rule out there being "survivors" or something, but I think the idea that this is the wrong path is more likely. Earth isn't the end of the story (as RM mentioned) its the characters. The final cylon is more likely to be where the last episodes take us rather then staying won Earth.
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Damn.
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That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Kara will lead them to their end...
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But the whole ruins of Earth thing has been rumored for awhile. So I was kind of expecting something else.<br> <br> But the look on Leoben's face was priceless. So at this point, no one knows jack shit about what is going on except the last cylon? Why all the prophecies, visions, hybrids sent them to a scorched Earth?<br> <br> I like it!
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Remember the Pythian prophecy as told by Elosha: "She also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land." Why is this relevant? Monty Python: "I'm not dead yet!" Laura Roslin is still alive. The prophecy itself says "And the lords anointed a leader to guide the Caravan of the Heavens to their new homeland." Notice it doesn't specifically say Earth. When we combine the quoted prophecy with what Elosha said about the dying leader, as well as the end of "Revelations" we can reach one of three conclusions. The first possibility is that the planet they have arrived at is not Earth. I don't find this likely, since a divine force seems to have guided them there. The second possibility is that the planet is Earth, yet is not what it seems. Spoilers from around the internet seem to confirm this is true to some degree. Perhaps an event has yet to happen that will rejuvenate the planet, or perhaps the gods/God are hiding the nature of the planet much like the Cylon projections or Tigh's uncontrolled waking visions. Another possibility is that not all of the planet is quite so barren (this seems a bit anti-climactic, so I tend to disregard this possibility). What I *think* is going to happen represents the third possibility: Earth is not the promised land of the prophecy. Remember that the promised land has no name, and thus the promised land may not be Earth. This would be the easiest way to explain why Laura Roslin is still alive. As someone mentioned earlier, I now believe that Earth is the One True birthplace of mankind. Remember the other important religious motto that no one seems to care out these days since the "All this has happened before..." prophecy has become so popular. The other saying-representing the first words of the sacred scrolls is that "LIFE HERE BEGAN OUT THERE." What if 'out there" is actually Earth? The survivors of an Earthly catastrophe (perhaps part of the Cylon cycle, but maybe not. I tend to think the end of Earth has nothing to do with the cyclical prophecy) arrived on Kobol, and then after the Kobol exodus the 13th tribe said "let's go to Earth instead of searching for a new home." This would explain why the 13th colony knew the planet was called Earth (everyone on Kobol would know because they or their descendants had lived on Earth and named it). So now what? What is the new homeland if not Earth? Will there be a return to one of the colonies? Is the homeland New Caprica, thus seeing a return to that barren little rock? Will there be a return to Kobol (seems likely to me. What if the cycle is a constant return to Kobol after discovering Earth is a wasteland?)? Will a new planet be home to the survivors? In all honesty, I don't see any ending other than a return to Kobol... at least from a realistic sense. If the show ends with a truce between humans and cylons, then why the hell wouldn't they go back to Kobol? It's the only place in the universe that seems lush and isn't dying of radiation poisoning.
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Makes logical sense but it doesn't make dramaturgical sense. We've been there and done that and I don't think it would be satisfying to audiences (or at least the writers wouldn't think it would be satisfying to the audience) to go back to a previously-visited planet. I think they're going to have to push on to something else, whatever that is. I think you may be on to something though - Earth sure doesn't look like the "Promised Land." Maybe the 13th tribe left after their nuclear war and our guys will find them somewhere else.
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Could she have dropped nukes during her missing time?
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Y'all need to remember: they weren't going to Earth just to find a place to live. Part of the reason to was to rejoin the 13th Tribe to defend themselves against the Cylons. Despite the truce, there are still Cylons out there that will want to kill humanity. Finding the 13th tribe will be there main goal when the show comes back.
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In response to the whole "it's all happened before, and will happen again" line of thinking: What if this band of survivors on Earth right now is like the original settlement on Kobol? They will start their own life and worship their own gods there, split off into different fractions at some point (because they're arguing with their gods ... maybe the Cylons?) and start again on different planets. Of course, if they were to go that route, the whole "one year later" flashforward at the end of season 2 would look like nothing.
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...is the key I think, its her viper but different, shiny and new. RM will have some logical explination for that rather than something overly mystic which suggests if she did get to Earth they were technologically advanced, if they had a hand in giving her the raptor. And to those who say there is no precedent in the series for time travel, I agree, but there was something going on with Starbuck being missing for months but from her perspective it was only 6 hours. With the destruction, there are two options really, people on Earth destroyed themselves (war etc) or....it was the cylons, or another version of cylons, who's to say they didn't develop their own. Perhaps the final 5 originated on Earth and were sent out to find the 12 colonies (thats how they know their way back) and instead of making contact with mankind, met with the cylons (40years agoish) and led to their progression to skinjobs...i'm babbling now aren't I...
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Yes, according to RDM, she died. We don't know how long she was dead in those months.<p> I believe that Starbuck was sent back to lead the colonists to the wrong place. They didn't listen to the Hybrid; the Final Five have been to the "13th House", not Starbuck. She's been to Earth. But Earth is no more. The true goal is to reunite with the 13th Tribe, and they need the Final Five to do so.
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ZACK ADAMA done and done
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Maybe Earth went through a similar situation as the 12 Colonies. The last of humanity fled Earth in search of the fabled colonies and they're on the run from Cylons, who in turn are looking for the other 7 models.
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Remember, the 13th Tribe left for Earth 2000 years before the colonists left Kobol. If anything, I'd think that's where they'd head.
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Here's the other line from Kara I was referring to:<p>Starbuck, sobbing: I saw Earth. The shape of it, the smell of it. The feel of it on my skin in my pores. And I swear to you, it was like I'd been there before. Like I never left."<p>Acording to those words, her Earth experience appears to have been a most pleasing one. It doesn't sound like she's talking about the Earth environs that we see in this episode.
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If you respond with "They call me MISTER FLIBBLE!" of course, I would deserve it. :-)
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So maybe they look for Kobol and find out about the colonies along the way?
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"Something went wrong. Are they all lost?"<p> "We survived. They must have as well."<p> "Where did they go?"<p> "They led us here. They'll lead us there."
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We'll see what happens when everybody else catches up
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Wow, Lee was like, "Dad, you've been drunk for 13 minutes! The Cylons are about to kill another hostage!" They must have some pretty powerful alcohol on the Galactica.
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is Kara's Viper! The Viper called out to the four and picked up on the beacon signal. Plus it looks as if it came off the showroom floor!
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June 13, 2008, 8:41 p.m. CST
I'm still thinking that this will tie into the original series
by blindambition238
I posted this in the other BSG forum, but apparently that was the wrong party so here I go again for my own edification:<P> I never watched a single episode of the os, but since its common knowledge that there are a bunch of plot homages and events parallel in the series, its padding my half-assed theory that "Everything has happened before and will happen again" is insinuating that this series is a prequel or sequel to the original continuity, and just one loop in a series of predestined/ inevitable events- and at some point either near the end of the season or start of the next half, they'll find the remains of the 1979 BSG (it did make it to Earth at the end right?).<p> Anyways, it'd make sense from a business perspective too since by tying this into the original they can enhance the popularity of both series. When this is finished it'll give fans of this series a reason to watch the original and the fans of the old to watch this one (if they aren't already). This would expand the breadth of the 'Battlestar Universe' as a whole, and allowing the birth of new related properties without (overtly) looking like they're milking a single show or beating a dead horse. <p> Of course Im drunk right now. So I may think very differently tomorrow afternoon.
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Shit, thats a pretty funny point. Still it looked liked he downed an entire bottle of brandy/whiskey/viper fuel in one go, so I'm sure that'd be enough to fuck anyone up. Also I think it wasn't just alcohol as much as a general nervous breakdown. The booze just something to do after he finished assulting his furniture.
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Oh wait, I watched it already ...
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When they were in that temple, a few saw a glimpse of earth, it didn't look like a wasteland than ? By the way, AWESOME episode!!
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I kind of wish now that they had made it a 10-part, 2-hour episode epic miniseries. The writing could have been more focused and they could have trimmed out all the fat. All leading to the shocking PLANET OF THE APES finale...<p> Classic.
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Nyaa nyaa.
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until just now. "What are you waiting for Apollo!"
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On the edge of my seat. Great show thus far.
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They finally get to Earth, and what the frak? That's it? Earth is a ruin?
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I counted two....
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Bob Dylan song remember? They catch the song from Earth (radio or something). And by the cuty scorched remains... NY maybe. So, what now?
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1) TPTB have said that the Dylan song is not a clue to the timeframe of the show<p> 2) If it is the very near future, that means the 13th tribe arrived sometime in our recorded past (they left Kobol 4000 years ago) ... which seems unlikely since there's no evidence of a mass emigration of humans from space in the historical record
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You can breathe can't you?!? Rebuild, you stupid matherfrakers!! <p> I seriously thought that they were only looking for a place that they could inhabit ie: breathe. <p> I missed some stuff, I guess.
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is where the East Coast feed ended
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That truly was a great episode. Planet of the Apes like. Maniacs!
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YOU BLEW IT UP!<br><br>I kept waiting for Adama to pull a Heston
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"Y'all need to remember: they weren't going to Earth just to find a place to live. Part of the reason to was to rejoin the 13th Tribe to defend themselves against the Cylons. Despite the truce, there are still Cylons out there that will want to kill humanity. Finding the 13th tribe will be their main goal when the show comes back."
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Do I have to sing it out loud with back up or what?
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Where are all the DAMNED DIRTY APES!
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I am speechless. EJO was strong.
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So we sound our victory chee-eer
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*speechless*.
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47 minutes of weakness followed by 7 minutes of obvious anti-climax, followed by a Planet of the Apes rip-off. Nowhere near the mindfuck of the jump-a-year forward at the end of season 2. You see, Ron, we have clocks and episode guides. We know there are five minutes left in the episode after all the cheering and 10 episodes left overall. Christ almighty.
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We can tell the end is near ...
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Or access to an intercom; that way we'd be spared the B-movie faux dramatics of the "don't push that button!" Please, some historical context, people. Compare the dramatic tension between Sharon grappling with being a Cylon, which culminated in the old man's shooting.
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Not as great as last season's Watchtower ending, but a good ep overall.
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The raw emotion in the last two episodes just blows away anything they have done in the last two years. I'm in tears.
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That final scene as it pans right it looks like a broken bridge and the view is from brooklyn , should have taped it to check. Damn them ,Damn them all to hell!!! Oh wait we did it hmmmmm
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But we'll walk alone in fear
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Was it just me or did anybody else thought that it was Caprica and not Earth? I have to watch the ep again cause I didn't any monuments or bridges that somebody said. I mean was that really earth or did they just completely just made a big circle?
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Tory moved close to Anders, but he seemed to shrug her off?<p> Plus, hats off to Tyrol, who had a smirk there too (two, count 'em, two brilliant smirks by Tyrol in the episode)
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Oh my God! I was wrong. It was Earth, all along! I guess you finaly made a monkey out of me.
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if anybody need counseling
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but I'm from Texas so what the fuck do I know about it. Anyone from NY confirm anything?
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... the acting by the older leads (Tigh, Roslin, Admiral) was outstanding, as usual. I didn't know Eddie had it in him.
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I'm almost positive that's what they've been preaching with the whole 'this has happened before, and will happen again' dialog.<br /><br /> Earth was their original home, they fleed during what would presumably be the 'first' Cylon/Human war. Settled on Kobol. Settled on the 13 Colonies. Cylons attack again,t hey flee once more, and just end up back where they started.<br /><br /> This episode just floored me. I can understand the lack of shock for a few people, but as a storytelling device it felt just as great as anything the show has ever put out. And I was one of the people who thought they wouldn't make it to Earth until the shows final 2 or 3 hours, so color me beyond shocked that they are here with 11 hours to go.<br /><br /> The preview was infuriating, simply because I know that is footage we'll see in February/March, and not next week. :) (That's Lee under the sheet, not Roslin. Yeah, I'm calling it a year ahead of time!)
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Fucking Greedy Execs.....why oh why do we have to wait till 2009 to get more new episode?
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...one has to be worthy of survival. <br><br> I'm still thrilled with the ending, but as my grandmother used to say, if you can't be with the ending to BATTLESTAR GALACTICA that you love, love the ending of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA that you're with. In that spirit, let's try to look at where the ending leaves us in terms of the themes of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, chiefly the one mentioned above. <br><br> Earth was the colonials last easy ticket to survival. The hope was that they could simply take their civiliztion and transplant it to the 13th colonies' world and continue on as they always had. But this option has now been taken off the table, and now they have to earn their survival with more difficuty. <br><br> I suppose by way of gratuitous metaphor, we can describe the colonials as someone who watches tv all day and eventually gets evicted from their house. In response, the person decides to go move into their cousin's house, and hopefully lay on the couch and watch tv all day there, only to find that the cousin's house has burnt down -- probably because of the same gross negligence that led our evicted hero to being evicted in the first place. The only solution now is to go out, get a job, and become a better member of society. <br><br> And now, so too with the colonials. They must overcome their flaws and prejudices and take a higher ground, not just with themselves and their own society, but with the cylons as well. <br><br> Although I'm okay with this reading, I'm not sure I like the message of it. There's a moral relativism to it that I have a hard time swallowing, but I think there's been wrestle going on with moral relativism and BATTLESTAR GALACTICA from the beginning. <br><br> Anyhoo, that's my take. Anybody else get a read?
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#3 said only 4 were among the fleet. So that leave the final cylon as someone a) aboard the rebel basestar b) someone we havn't met yet c)someone we believe already dead d) #3 is lying (but why would she only out the 4)<br><br>I've always been a proponent of Zarek as the Final Cylon since it'd just really screw with those of us who watched the BSG:TOS.
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Now that you mention it, it makes clear sense but I also thought that they were going to find earth in the last episode. Man, I need time to digest this episode hahaha Somebody give me grey goose and red bull.
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Putting together what others have already said...this is my theory:<br><br> Life started on Earth. Humans created robot helpers, Cylons. Cylons rebelled and destroyed their former masters on Earth. The Cylons went out into space.<br><br> Eventually they evolved themselves into flesh and blood (sound familiar?).<br><br> Eventually the cylons forget they are creations and think they are humans. They create robots. The robots rebel. Lather, rinse, repeat.<br><br> We have no idea how many times this cycle has occurred.<br><br> Somehow, they beacon to earth is set up, requiring 'humans' and 'cylons' (the terms really do become meaningless) to work TOGETHER to get to Earth. The point? TO show them the ruins of their homeworld and shock them out of their cycle of unending self-genocide.
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There are survivors on New Caprica, and since there were survivors on Caprica for awhile, there could be some on the other colony worlds. Final Fifth might have missed the bus.
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Bigger than the episode that ended with Boomer putting two bullets in Bill Adama's chest? Sure. Bigger than the episode that leapt ahead a year? Nah. Bigger than the episode that revealed the Watchtower Four? Nah.
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Alright, I read a significant portion of the TB but not the whole thing, so forgive me if this has been brought up but... all of a sudden Lee calls a truce, frees the final 4 and invites D'Anna over to share the secret? Fair enough, sure, but that's a *huge* decision that needs some explaining. Along with Adama's meltdown, this needed some extra time. But the music, particularly as Tigh was about to be "airlocked" - not bad at all. And I'm curious as to why the final four's song comes all... radio staticy. Is that just sonically interesting, or an important point?
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Just to clarify, I'm NOT thrilled with the ending. They really should have come up with something less PLANET OF THE APES-tastic.
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They were hearing the same static that was made when the compass-thing was turned on
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That was brilliant fucking sci-fi right there. The question is... what does it mean? Who were the Lords of Kobol? If I had to guess at who the puppetmasters are, have been this entire time -- Guess #1 is Post-Technological Singularity Humans. Though I do like the whole "Cylons who think they're human" angle someone mentioned above, come to think of it...
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How do we know this is really Earth and no another "sign post" along the way? It didn't look like there were any landmasses to make it definitely Earth.
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The path to earth was made by those FLEEING the earth, to found the Kobol Colony. Over time, the Twelve tribes left from Kobol to form new colonies.<p>Now my add-on: The scrolls and prophesies were not a "history" of a 13th Tribe that had fled TO earth long ago, but a deliberate map/instruction/set of clues for the future, when one day The Fleet would go in search of earth. The current Fleet IS THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE. <p>The damage on earth seemed complete, hard to tell if it was old or new.<p>If the humans originally fled FROM earth, rather than to it, then the underlying question is why they fled. Iblis? Something else?<p>okay, now I will go read the talkback!
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The Start and the Finish can both be considered "ends" of something.....
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For the guy from Texas who asked about the bridge... I'm from north Jersey, and the final shot was definitely New York and the Brooklyn Bridge. I wonder if the fleet landed at JFK? ;-D
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the last episode will end with a lingering shot of Bill Adama as the Lawgiver Ape.
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Didn't RDM say the series ends them finding earth? Its not the end of the series yet so how can that be earth?
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I swear I thought the same thing. I didn't think it was Earth by the way Adama said his line. I should have recorded the damn episode to rewatch it.
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Apologies in advance for any typos; still on the floor, can't get up to see computer screen. TOTALLY FRACKING AWESOME. Earth plot wrapped up, but search for a home is not! Earth irradiated and decroded! I had a feeling something like that was coming when Roslin said the "first handful of earth" line. Was it something we did to ourselves? Done by attackers? How long ago? Where do they go now? Will the alliance hold? What of the pissed-off non-rebel freshly-mortal Cylon fleet still out there somewhere? It's just too bad that's what Earth will really look like before Sci-Fi coughs up the final episodes in the year 3009. Still, I'm taking my chances. See you in a thousand years, suckers! *Engages hibe*
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I'll see you guys later cause I have Direct TV and I'm catching the episode from Western time,
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Unless of course it's Terra! <br><br> Or they've reach a planet someone else decided to call "Earth" in honor of the mythical lost colony. But if there are only humans and Cylons in the BSG universe, just whose Earth is this? <br><br> The final Cylon...one crawling to the light, seeking redemption...just who needs the most redeeming of all the characters?
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and he wasn't with the fleet.
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we've seen him nuked at the beginning of every episode.. and he has been instrumental in finding the way to earth..
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At the end of last season we CLEARLY saw earth (you could see North America). This was deliberate, to show that our earth does exist in the BSG Universe. However, both shots of "earth" tonight were obscured. No real identifying shots. Just land masses, blue oceans and clouds. Characteristics of our beautiful blue marble...AND, many believe, former characteristics of another planet in our solar system. Laura's not dead, yet they're on "earth"? Highly unlikely. Methinks they're on Mars a looooooong time ago.
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An excellent guess, and an exchange I could see happening between characters on the show. <br><br> But having their last great hope of resuming their old way life dashed, I don't think the humans (or Cylons for that matter) are gonna be bouncing back quite so fast. Sadly, many are most likely going to succumb to darker fates. (i.e., walking out the airlock or putting a gun to their head.)<br><br> It's always darkest before the dawn.
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... us, the viewer at home. That's the lamest, laziest of all possible endings. Edward James Olmos looks into the camera and tells us *we're* the final Cylon. We are the enemy, the other. Nothing matters because we're all no better or worse than anybody else, regardless of how many worlds have been nuked or people pushed out of airlocks. Better to die as a race than fight the enemy on his own terms and with his own tactics. Ron Moore wants us all to learn to love and forgive the inner robot inside us all. Sha-la-la-laaaaaaaa.
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June 13, 2008, 11:40 p.m. CST
D'Anna KNEW from her vision alone that Fifth was NOT in fleet
by chromedome
And she DOES know the identity of the Fifth, so it has to be someone in her experience. She only wanted to Four to join her on the Basetar--this is because she KNOWS the Fifth is ALREADY THERE: The HYBRID.<p> Just a rePurveying of the Hybrid Theory According to Chromedome.
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...and it is Helo. That's why Hera is so important. She's the first pure cylon baby. ??? Probably not, though. And what's up with caprica being pregnant? Great ep.
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Didn't the Hybrid tell Starbuck... She told her that she would led them all to their end. And she did. :)
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is dead. <br><br) It's pretty improbable that of the millions of humans who died in the Fall of the Colonies, somehow all members the Final Five were able to make it to safety. Tigh, Tory, and Tyrol all had duties that took them away from the planets. Anders shouldn't have survived, but Starbuck came back for him.<br> So when D'Anna says that only four are in the Fleet, it's possible the Cylons accidentally killed one their revered siblings in the opening attack. Or worse still, on New Caprica. We now assume that D'Anna was apologizing to Tigh in her vision in the Temple of the Five. But what if it was someone who had perished in the Ocupation? Or back in the Colonies, surviving the bombardment only to perish in one of the breeding farms or ground purging operations? <br><br> D'Anna doesn't act like the final Cylon is dead, but she doesn't seem as motivated to find him or her as she did with the Watchtower Four. If the Final Five could use Ressurection Ships or the Hub, the missing member may already be reborn and hidden by Cavil's forces. His resistance to D'Anna's quest to find the Five may be because he's secretly planning to control them himself, with one already in his possession.
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Mars of long ago could possibly explain why the constellations match those of the 12 colonies, giving us a post-apocalyptic JOHN CARTER CARTER OF MARS planet, I guess. Galactica identified the planet as Earth because the constellations are the ones they saw in the "open field" at Athena's Tomb. Are they visible from Mars long ago? I dunno.<p>You raise another issue too - where are the rest of the planets in our solar system?
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June 13, 2008, 11:59 p.m. CST
I believe the Fifth is Self-Aware, but no one until D'Anna knew
by chromedome
So I don't buy into the Fifth being identical in nature to the Four, needing to be activated to realize "whoa... I am a cylon?"<p>With that assumption, Helo, in order to be the Fifth, which is possible, would have been fully aware and manipulating things from the beginning! Putting Baltar on his Raptor, staying behind, knowing even as he was running away with false-Boomer that she was false, and playing along, etc. Stopping the virus. It could well be that he is, but it means he is a sneaky duplicitous conniving manipulator, pretending to be kind of a lump.... I think it would be a cop out, and the Hybrid would be a Smokin Solution for the Fifth.
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I think the Hybrid and the Centurions KNOW something that will change everything. Remember, the centurions averted the attack because they recognized Anders as a Final Fiver - no skinjob gave them such an order. Did you notice how the toaster recognized Tory right away when she walked into the room?<p>What the Centurions know the Hybrid knows too since she is connected in some way to into all toasters.<p>What's key IMHO is the Centurions did not need a "vision" to know Anders as a Final Fiver, whereas D'Anna did, which shows that chromedomes have higher levels of cognition with respect to the Final Five.
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(Minimus as in None, No Hubris--clever, eh?)<p>chromedomes in general know toastery things :-)<p>The Hybrid seems to have a lot of instant access to information--perfect position to manipulate events from, if you ask me. She knew instantly that Natalie was Offline, that D'Anna was Online, and could have even been the one that interpreted the data stream, recognized Anders, and commanded the stand-down of the Raiders. <p>They showed us Tyrol smirking/smiling a lot tonight:I think that is significant: has he lost it, or does he SEE or KNOW something the others don't, or have thus far missed. He seems very unconcerned about all this now, don't he?
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Does that explain your inexcusable absence from these proceeding? Huberto is here, chrth was, but where is MNG? Is he in this BSG TB? NOOOO. Is he in the other one... Noooooo....<p>Wait! D'Anna is back, so you and CapSix and her are all under the blankets getting re-acquainted? <p>Well Then: CARRY ON!
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All rise from the same "stream that feeds the ocean."<p>Yes, Tyrol was acting as if he had high toastery knowledge. He IS the guy who figured out the Temple of Jupiter. If there some toastery figurin' to do be done he's the one. Since last time dealt with a temple, I wonder if it has to do with the Temple of Aurora that has been discussed.
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Holy Frak! Frakkity frak! That was amazing. Incredible hour of television. On the edge of my seat the entire time. It goes to show how much this show has frakked with my head, that I kept waiting for everything to go to shit at the end. And I guess it kinda did, but not in the way I suspected. Gotta love the Buffy reference, Herc. I was humming that same tune when Lee said that line. It seems like there was another meta-Buffy reference in that ep, too, but I can't remember it. I think the possibilities for the final 10 (12?) episodes are awesome, and I can't wait to see it. BSG! BSG! So say we all. Gods, it's a good time to own a tv.
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and oh yeah, Adama's breakdown was gut-wrenching. What an amazing performance, totally earned after years of slow burn. Give that man an Emmy, godsdamn it!
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where did that come from? did i miss something? all of a sudden it has the way to earth or something what? it just changed??? wtf? are you kidding me?
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He loved and lost a Cylon infiltrator. He was revealed to be Cylon himself, a fear he had wrestled with and thought squashed. He loved and lost a human wife. I think his smirks are him saying, "Well, here's the universe dumping all over me again. Ain't gonna bother with an umbrella no more!"<br><br> Chief's just rolling with the punches and no longer fighting (or caring much) about anything anymore. <br><br> Don't get me wrong. If/when he finds out what Tory did to Cally, I think the question of if there's a Final Five or just a Four will be dealt with most harshly. Ack!
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you can see Wall-E cleaning up the mess...but yeah, i liked the episode and didn't see the twist coming at all until they were there looking around.
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As a Brooklyn Heights resident, my first thought was that they were indeed near the ruins of the brooklyn bridge (which would be especially cool for me since it would mean I'm right now sitting approximatley where they're standing). But I keep looking at that shot in slow motion, and while it's pretty damn close to the view from the Brooklyn Heights promenade, I can't for the life of me say that it is for sure. I guess we'll have to wait.
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just deal. and hug .
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who was expecting a big SkyNet transport to drop a load of Terminators down on them. "Hasta la vista, Starbuck."
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have a Temple of Aurora? ;-) <br><br> I know, it could possibly in the future. But I don't think that was supposed to be NYC. Unless the sea levels really rose, that island looked way smaller than Manhattan. And the temple next to the bridge structure?
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was a real let down--Herc made it sound so good...and it just was not nearly as good as the last episode.
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This debate is already kiling me. I wish I could get this show in HD.
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Head Six.
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4 of the final five are revealed, the humans and cylons have a temp peace tready, Adama goes apeshit when he finds out about Ty (best part of the entire season) that is alot of shit in one episode. And finding earth in a post nuclear wasteland was a bit predictable, but what happens next who is the final cylon, how long do we have to wait, FRACK me ;(
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I just need some sort of pay off for finding Earth after this seasons huge jump from the pace of other seasons. But, seems like a lot of other posts are pointing at the idea of this not really being earth, which could be true.
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I've been overseas since last August, I head back to JFK on July 2nd. Hopefully I find home in much better condition.<p>Oh yeah, and... WHAT THE FUCK. I can't say I'm surprised they Planet-Of-The-Apes-ed it, I even joined the bandwagon in an old talkback and partly called it. I wish it was more surprising, but I liked it nonetheless. Felt they slowed down way too much at points during this episode, particularly to celebrate and shit. I wanted it to keep up the breakneck pace without anyone exhaling like it has been all season so far (even if the action's been intermittent, the tension hasn't).<p>SO WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON. That definitely looks like the Brooklyn Bridge.<p> And LMFAO, I agree completely with the guy who said "So NJ's radioactive, WHAT ELSE IS NEW", ahahahah.<p>They can still set up shop on Earth, just on the less irradiated parts I guess. Or they can go to Mars, and terrafarm it if it's not already so.<p>I agree with the rest who think Starbuck fell into a wormhole or something that drew her to Earth where humans or cylons or SOMETHING here, gave her a brand new viper, and sent her back. And clicked on the final four/five Cylons. I just wonder how the hell they've been to Earth. Whoever the "higher power" is that's been orchestrating shit (somehow connected to the Hybrid), they have to be here on Earth somewhere.<p>Btw, all this Kobol, 12-13 colonies/tribes crap has me confused so I just ignore it all. Please tell me there's a site which sums up the Colonial tradition in a nice page or two?
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It has always been stated that the final five have been to Earth. This would fit into what some of you are saying. That the people of Earth left there and headed to create the other 12 colonies. I think that the final five were created on Earth. Somehow. Someway. The music being heard is a beacon of some sorts. I bet they will hear it again while at destroyed Earth.
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the posting format from BSG. He will tell you to find your own angle; I will keep pointing it out until he can't help but burst a blood vessel. <p> *splurt*
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Not the survivors, I mean the talkbackers. Just reading though, it's like nobody can quite believe what happened in this episode. Like nobody wants to believe that it's really Earth. <p> Thoughout the series, Earth was this fabled promised land, a kind of Eden, the survivors last hope. And then to get there and to see what's become of it, it's got to be a shock to the fans as well as the characters. <p> Can anyone honestly say they expected that? Let's face it...we all expected a past/present/future Earth or an alternate Earth. We expected them to either populate the planet and begin greek culture, though it would have begun before them with the 13th tribe which brings up the idea that the 13th tribe are the original colonists of a non-human Earth and we are all descendants of that tribe, or we expected a modern Earth like Galactica 1980, or a future Earth with Star Trek like technology and a world inhabited by advanced humans or cylons. <p> That's what most of us expected...either way it was going to be the last episode, we might see some Earth humans or Cylons, and the series would close out with a big battle. <p> Instead we get an Earth that looks like it's in the far future, from the state of the ruins, it's OUR Earth, and it's destroyed...no Earth Cylons or humans in sight. We see an Earth where something terrible, something horrific has happened. <p> And reading the talkbacks, most of us are shocked. We can't make any sense of it. And I bet that's exactly how the colonists and cylons feel...and frankly... <p> It's FRAKING GENIUS. <p> For the first time in the entire run of the show...the audience is in the same position as the characters...we don't have a clue what's going on. It just seems wrong somehow. <p> Am I surprised they reached Earth so early? A little...but it definitely works. And we now have 11 hours of Galactica to explain just what the hell is going on. <p> Even if it does turn out to be an attempt at social commentary about the human race destroying itself, it doesn't matter. That would work. <p> Where does the show go from here? Who or what orchestrated this whole journey? Is the final cylon behind it all? Is it Iblis? Are they one and the same? Are there any humans left on the planet? What about the other cylons, Boomer and the others? Hera, the Opera House. <p> And what about Gaius Fraking Baltar? Will he ever become the fully fledged traitor or will he remain a victim of circumstance? <p> How could the 6 be pregnant? Is Saul Tigh half human like Hera? Is that why he can procreate? Was Ellen a 6? What exactly are the in-heads? Instruments of Iblis? Will Dirk Benedict ever get a cameo? <p> These questions and more...someone said that the final scene was quiet and not a "holy shit" moment. <p> I respectfully disagree. <p> Yes it was quiet...but it was most definitely a "HOLY SHIT" moment. Better than Watchtower Four, Better than 1 year later...heck, better than the identity of the person in the coffin in Lost. <p> It did what few shows have ever managed to do. It put the viewer in the exact same position as the characters. And that is quite an achievement. <p> Can Moore deliver the payoff in the final episodes? Will the questions be answered? Only the gods know. <p> But dammit, I can't wait to find out. <p> And Scifi, please bring it back sooner than 2009. I believe the finale has now been shot. So get your effects team working and release the episodes as and when they are finished. Don't hold them back just because you want to promote the Caprica spin off. <p> I still have a strange feeling that Baltar might lead the centurians against the skinjobs by the way, dunno why.
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It's the dead son/lover/brother... The opening scene pretty much confirms it to me and with all the caht about going back to the mini series for inspiration... Too easy !
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..that the planet we see in the end IS Earth. Just because Starbuck "saw" a very different Earth; doesn't necessarily prove otherwise. It's obvious that something is working behind the scenes to make sure things happen a certain way. Their purpose may not be harmless and so they could have easily made Starbuck "see" what it/he/she/they wanted her to see. Had she seen the real Earth she certainly would not be in a rush to find the place. I think it's going to become painfully obvious to everyone that something has been screwing with them. or that something will shortly make itself known.
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I believe both Pythia and Starbuck stated Earth was the THIRD planet with one moon in a sytem centered on a yellow star. Unless Gaeta also lost the ability to count after losing his leg, they would've sailed past Mars (even if it was capable of supporting human life) without much fanfare. <br><br> More I think about it, I believe this planet is a "Second Earth" named in honor of the "Original Earth." OE is still around...we've seen it onscreen...but it's been long abandoned. More strange...this Second Earth is a colony by proxy. <br><br>Orginal Humanity, dying off or unable to make the long journey, sent the Original Cylons to set up a colony. Even if Orginal Humanity perished, their machine-based children would carry on their name and memory. But these Original Cylons, crafted so closely in their makers' image, eventually came to believe they were fully and always had been Human (Second Humanity). They begin their own colonization program, first setting up shop on Kobol before eventually creating the Twelve Colonies. Second Humanity creates the Second Cylons based on ideas from their own suppressed and forgotten history. The Second Cylons rise up and war with their creators. They all eventually are compelled (by ancient programming seen as visions or divine calling) to re-trace their convoluted path all the way back to Original Earth after stops at Kobol and Second Earth along the way. <br><br> I admit it. I've given this WAY too much thought. Ack!
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around 200 days. <p> how long can it be...? <p> /cries
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Life started on Earth. Humans created robot helpers, Cylons. Cylons rebelled and destroyed their former masters on Earth. The Cylons went out into space. Eventually they evolved themselves into flesh and blood (sound familiar?). Eventually the cylons forget they are creations and think they are humans. They create robots. The robots rebel. Lather, rinse, repeat. We have no idea how many times this cycle has occurred. Somehow, they beacon to earth is set up, requiring 'humans' and 'cylons' (the terms really do become meaningless) to work TOGETHER to get to Earth. The point? TO show them the ruins of their homeworld and shock them out of their cycle of unending self-genocide. At the end of last season we CLEARLY saw earth (you could see North America). This was deliberate, to show that our earth does exist in the BSG Universe. However, both shots of "earth" tonight were obscured. No real identifying shots. Just land masses, blue oceans and clouds. Characteristics of our beautiful blue marble...AND, many believe, former characteristics of another planet in our solar system. Laura's not dead, yet they're on "earth"? Highly unlikely. Methinks they're on Mars a looooooong time ago.
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meh, well it was entertaining enough ill give you that, good tv, but not the best BSG episode ever, and not mind blowing. Too over hyped.
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I mean, she has cancer and most likely will die from it, but it is Natalie, the rebel Cylons' leader, who has discovered the truth of the Opera House. As she lay dying, she was experiencing some kind of vision. She is a Six, and Sixes seem highly connected to the Opera House, especially Caprica and Head Six. <br><br> After placing her trust in the promises of Pyhthia and the vision of Elosha, Roslin's faith has been rewarded with a dead planet. Adding insult, she was basically tricked into saving the life of a man she has long wanted to see dead. <br><br> I'm thinking Laura's gonna turn her back on the prophecies and religious beliefs. She's been personally burned and has lead the human race to a dead end, trading one hell for another. Trusting in faith got her bupkes. <br><br> Of course, who or what is sending these visions has some sort of plan/scheme going on. Laura solidifying her faith and then having it ripped away must be part of the tapesty.
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He gets a sing-a-long
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I mean, they literally JUST ARRIVED into earth's atmosphere...and they start an orgy. I thought that moment fell flat simply because there were NO scans for potential life, no scans of the atmosphere, no lines like, "Here we are, let's get a recon team together" etc. I realize they have to move the show along, but there is NO WAY they would've been going nuts just arriving at a completely unknown planet where they had no idea how they would be welcomed or who they would be "welcomed" by. I think they would have been cautiously euphoric, but here they were already hanging their own "mission accomplished" banner, and they should all be smart enough to know that they need to...oh, I don't know...CHECK THE PLANET OUT FIRST! It does seem like they had to cut out a lot from this. Maybe the extended cut, if there is one, will bring everything together in a more believable way.
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Like *our* Earth. Because it's all fucked up and destroyed, it can't be the *real* Earth? <p> I haven't watched a lot of BSG but I kinda gathered that some of the jist of the series had a "mission statement" on affairs of the NOW - religon, racism, warism, ecoligicalism and isn't it the most? (John Lennon) <p> And Chrth, I understand that they have more to do; more to protect themselves from...but look at it this way... <p> They have a clean - yet somewhat dusty and scaffold-y - slate. They should dig in, protect and if need be, fight for each scrap. Because it may look like a shit heap now but with a few curtians and a well placed floor mat - you got something working for ya. <p> I'm just sayng that you can't disregard something because it *looks* bad. <p> Perhaps Earth can be a "fix-R-upper".
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will take place 5-10 years later. Watching them build shelter, grow food and having all the characters exploring will be too much to deal with especially with so few episodes left. They can't go back to their ships if they discover it's not Earth because that would make for some even more boring episodes since all the tension is gone between the Cylons and the Humans. They are where they are for good and watch this baby advance in time like a motherfucker next ep.
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Cool! I'm glad they didn't go the Ancient History route. Can anyone tell me - was Ellen already dead when Deanna saw the Final Five and apologised to one of them? Maybe the Fifth is dead, as previously proposed? <p> What if the Cylons are the 13th Tribe? err Colony...
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Skynet's also been mentioned - me, personally, I was half-expecting to see the remains of a billboard, still spouting "the chance to begin again in the off-world Colonies..."
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agreed Behemoth...the whole time I was just waiting for something to happen, even when the raptors were entering the atmosphere I was expecting them to be blown out of the sky or something. Thinking it over though having such a joyous moment contrasts greatly with the sudden desolation they and we face when they get to the surface. I don't think the impact would have been as great without it. What was also great about it was it showed the pairings/relationships we now have and where the plots can go with the characters, kinda like a recap on how far they've come and what they have to face next. I am curious though as to whether we've really seen the last of Cavill and the others, we have one rebel battlestar, they need to reconcile the cylon race in someway - integrate with mankind if some of the stuff above is correct - to start the cycle again.
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Well, it could be. And I'm sure there will be some members of the colonials that argue for it ...<p> But then aren't we just rehashing the New Caprica plotline? Barely ekeing out a survival until the Cylons show up? Granted, it would give new meaning to 'All this has happened before and will happen again' ... but I can't imagine RDM doing a second verse same as the first
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YES. D'Anna didn't see the Final Five until after they left New Caprica. And Tigh killed Ellen there.
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What an episode!!!!! I'm stunned. It was bloody awesome. Phew, I'm knackered now lol. Dont think I can wait until 2009 :(
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I'm going to post a summary of my various theories/etc later to make it handy for all involved (and for those who don't want to reread all the posts). Look for it!
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Perez Hilton.
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Don't tell me what to do.
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they didn't show any identifying shots of "earth". They did it before. Why not this time? Maybe this is an opportunity for them to get their shit together before they're allowed through 'the pearly gates' (earth). I like the previous Helo theory posted. He has quite central in a whole bunch of pivotal moments in the show.
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Some things I don't get;<p> 1) I thought the Final Five together would show the way to Earth? We are still missing one, and only three of them were involved in finding the secret of the Viper... perhaps it was a tad off and didn't actually point to Earth?<p> 2) They keep saying that The Final Five have been to Earth. How the hell would they have been there before, if this is meant literally?<p> 3) Where are the flying bikes? :D
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Lloytron: I think the fact that they followed Kara instead of the Final Five (and haven't even gotten the Fifth) is why they're in the wrong place.<p> Ben_Gazzara: OBEY
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BTW I know it was last week but I liked the quick reference to The A Team by Starbuck. Bring back Dirk!
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DAMN YOU ALLLLLLLLLL TO HELLLLLLLLL!!! Great Episode. So are they on an alternate Earth?? Earth of the Far Distant Past (Did anyone see the Continents when they showed the planet where they in Pangea???) And is it up to them to colonize the Earth they are Adam and Eve?? Or is it a far future Earth and they must recolonize the Planet and they were called there to do so by some underground scientists or something. Or It's a completley different Alternate Universe Earth that saw filthy barbarian peasant Russians let loose their nuclear arsenal as Communism fell. That could explain the Bob Dylan music as radio signals do I believe take some time to travel in the vaccume of space . Or is this just a Big Lost Like mindfuck and this is not actually Earth?? Olmos deserves a fucking emmy!! Jamie Bamber definately should have been the new Captain Kirk especially after his Kirk like scenes as leader staring down oblivion and making his superior enemy blink. Pure James T. Kirk very Shatnerian and I'll bet Ron wrote it with a certain Cocksman starship Captain in mind. JJ was Bamber even considered for Kirk??? What the fuck??? Question is, do the Cylons have teraforming tech to remove the radiation from the soil. Or are only parts of the planet irradiated??? Or is it that skinjobs are resistant to radiation only the offspring of skinjobs and humans can live on the planet because they will be resistant to the radiation too and it is the children of cy and humans destiny to repopulate the earth???? Fuck Fuck Fuck
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Of course it's first stop New York. They're tourists. Adama's just pissed he can't get that big foam Statue of Liberty hat he wanted.
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I totally agree with the handful of other folks here saying he's the fifth.
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Summary (since this is a long block of text):<p> The Hybrid warned against following Kara Thrace, but the Colonials did it anyway. Now they're in the wrong place. They need to find the Final Fifth, who, with the Final Four, will show the way to the home of the 13th Tribe ... all while fighting off the Cavil-led Cylons.<p> Disclaimer:<p> This is just something I came up with. It's not written in stone (notepad, actually). The purpose in posting it is to test it. If you find a flaw, GREAT. If you have a different interpretation, that's also great ... we can discuss it and see what we come up with. I may embrace your position, I may not, don't take it personally. The goal is discussion, not conclusion. This is a start point, not an end point.<p> The Nebula:<p> The Nebula is KEY. This is where things went wrong. Up until that point, the Colonials were following the correct path. The activation of the Final Five was the next step in the correct path. However, something else happened: Starbuck came back from the dead (confirmed in a podcast that she was dead). Multiple Hybrids warned against following her. The Colonials did anyway. Why? Because whoever brought Starbuck back returned her at the exact moment to pre-empt the next step. Since In-Head Leoben led her to her death, I'm going to guess that he was an agent of that power (we'll talk about them all later). So upon Starbuck's return, the wrong path was taken.<p> Now, there are some questions here (and possible flaws). Starbuck's path took them to the Hybrid and the destruction of the Resurrection Hub. The hybrid didn't want them following Starbuck, but she did seem to want to destroy the Hub. So it gets kind of confusing. Was the purpose just to follow Starbuck some of the way? Would the Hub destruction happened anyway if they followed the Final Five? Hard to say.<p> The McGuffin:<p> BTW, I think there's a giant McGuffin that is everywhere in the BSG universe and I think we've been tricked with it. I refer, of course, to "This has all happened before and that will all happen again". Many of us are trying to fit events into some sort of cycle. This has resulted in some far out looping (Cylons invented on Earth thousands of years ago, etc). I think we've taken it too far. For all we know, the cycle in question is tens of thousands of years old. So I am not going to try to fit the events into a cycle. There's an almost infinite number of ways to do it, and I don't think it gets us any closer to the 'truth' of the remaining episodes.<p> Earth:<p> Ah, good old Earth. And yes, I do believe they're on Earth. I believe that Earth was the previous home for those that ended up on Kobol, but it really becomes an academic question. Was Earth destroyed before the 13th Tribe set out for it 4000 years ago? Possibly; would make sense why everyone was on Kobol and ONLY Kobol (in a Universe with no aliens, why, 4000 years ago, was all of humanity on one planet? Could it be because they had been on another planet earlier that they destroyed, and their new leaders, the Lords of Kobol, kept a tight rein on them for unknown reasons?) Or was Earth destroyed after the 13th Tribe arrived, either in a battle with other (original) inhabitants or some sort of pseudo-Cylon event like what happened to the colonies (here's a place for our McGuffin)?<p> Ultimately, IT DOESN'T MATTER. See, a lot of people forget (because of New Caprica and the opening credits) that the real goal wasn't Earth; it was to reunite with the 13th Tribe. Reunited (and it feels so good), they would be able to fight off the Cylons. Despite all the truces and toaster-frakking going on, there's something still out there, because ...<p> Here Comes the Cavil-ry:<p> There are now a lot more bad Cylons than good Cylons. There's only D'Anna. A handful of Leobens. Some Sixes and Eights.<p> But there are potentially hundreds of thousands of all the other models. Not to mention Raiders, Centurions, and whatnot. Granted, those may no longer attack due to the revealed presence of the Final Five, but there are a lot more bad basestars than good ones. And there's still the Cylon homeworld, where resurrection still happens (unless RDM retcons this out) and they could build a new resurrection hub if they felt like it, one that the 'good' Cylons could no longer use.<p> The Thirteenth Tribe:<p> So that's what it comes down to -- finding the Thirteenth Tribe. There has to be some survivors somewhere. Back to our McGuffin: if the Colonials survived the Cylon attack, than I'm sure the 13th Tribe survived whatever happened on Earth (or if Earth was already like that). And I'm sure they got into some ships and went looking for a place called ... you got me. But I'm guessing the 13th Tribe is there. And I'm guessing they got there before the colonists left Kobol.<p> The Final Five:<p> This is where the Final Five's path comes into play. The Final Five's path leads to the 13th Tribe. Since the path they have followed has been laid out thousands of years ago, it seems that the 13th Tribe returned some of its members to Kobol at some point to create a new path, one that didn't lead to Earth (or led to an Earth 2 or New Earth or something). Now since we don't know the Final Fifth (who could be dead, or one of the colonies/New Caprica, or could've been on the Basestar already, or D'Anna could've been lying, whatever the explanation for the location is), I believe that the plot directions points to the joined Five being able to find the correct path. So the Fifth needs to be found (and I'm sure they'll figure this out pretty quick).<p> Roslin's Upcoming Death:<p> She's still the dying leader (remember, it's a wasting disease. Those championing Natalie for this role forget this fact). But the scripture never says Earth. Just the 'promised' or 'new' land. Since the 13th Tribe is what set down the markers, it makes sense that she doesn't die until they're close to their home.<p> The In-Heads and the Lords of Kobol:<p> Here's one of the big questions. What is the purpose of the In-Heads? I'm guessing they're avatars of the Lords of Kobol, but it's just a guess. The Cylon God is likely a former Lord of Kobol who was exiled for wanting to be the top dog, and the Cylons found him and he converted them to belief in him. The In-Head Six and Baltar are his doing. Is the Cylon God responsible for them following Kara the wrong way? It's the easiest solution to the problem (since it utilizes an established entity), but the Why is tricky. Maybe he doesn't want the 13th Tribe reunited with the Colonials because the other Lords of Kobol reside with the former? But it's also possible that one of the other Lords of Kobol (Aurora is a very likely suspect here because of her connection with Kara Thrace) doesn't want them reunited because they do not want the agents of the Cylon God amongest the 13th Tribe.<p> Where Do We Go From Here?<p> Well, I think the path is simple: find the Final Fifth. Follow the path to the 13th Tribe. Unite with them to stop the (bad) Cylons. Live happily ever after ... until it happens again. This doesn't mean there aren't loose threads (and some of them are already answered above, but we'll include them all) that need answering, but I think this is the core of the final episodes. Some of these are academic (as noted, does it really matter what happened on Earth? All that matters is that it happened).<p> The Open Threads:<p> 1) The remaining 'bad' Cylons (as well as the Cylon homeworld)<p> 2) What happened to Earth?<p> 3) What happened to the 13th tribe?<p> 4) What happened to the Lords of Kobol?<p> 5) Who or What are the In-Head Baltar, Six, and Leoben?<p> 6) What destruction is Kara Thrace leading everyone to?<p> 7) Why isn't Roslin dead (yet)? Will she die?<p> 8) The Final Fifth<p> 9) How have the Final Five "been to Earth"?<p> 10) Who is the 'jealous god'? Is it the Cylon god? Lord of Kobol?<p> 11) What's the deal with Hera? What's the secret of the Opera House?<p> 12) What's the deal with Tigh-Caprica Six's child?<p> Miscellany:<p> I don't think they'll settle on Kobol or Earth. The former seems like going backwards to me, and the latter seems like a replay of New Caprica.<p><p> Predicted Dialogue for the next episode:<p> "Something went wrong. Are they all lost?"<p> "We survived. They must have as well."<p> "Where did they go?"<p> "They led us here. They'll lead us there."<p> Also: "Frak"<p><p> The splendor Kara's Earth opposed to the Earth they're on now: Roslin and Kira see a green bank. Natalie sees verdant trees. These are the glimpses of death/afterlife we've been shown on the show. Now consider what the podcast told us when she returned: Kara DIED. And was returned. What if the splendor she saw was the one Roslin and Natalie glimpsed, not Earth?<p> <p> I think that's enough for now. If you made it to the end and read everything, good for you.
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the ice gun was a rip off from themovie "The Guns of Navarone". I personally didn't miss it
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Gods I hope not.
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June 14, 2008, 10:57 a.m. CST
My theory on the Fifth Cylon / Thirteenth Colony
by The Wolf at the Door
Not really "mine," but cobbled together from a lot of what I've read here so far: <p> The "thirteenth colony" and the "fifth cylon" are one and the same - it's the next generation of human-cylon hybrids ... and they'll be the ones to survive on this radiated planet (more on that below), which will become Earth because they'll rebuild it as such. The distinction between humans and cylons will dissolve, and history will continue in this cycle ... blah blah blah ... <p> My one quick thought about the hybrid children being able to survive on Earth comes from the cylon blood's effect on Roslin way back when - the blood combined has a greater resistance to disease or something ... kind of a weak link in my theory, but I think everything so far has been leading us to this conclusion. That humans and cylons must merge to survive. <p> I can totally see Tigh saying to Hera, on a bended knee and holder her shoulders in wonder, "You're the fifth!" It could also be why D'Anna only referred to the "four" in the fleet ... because the fifth isn't ONE PERSON, it's a generational happening. And that's how the visions come together in the opera house. They're all seeing a vision of the fifth cylon / thirteenth colony being ushered into the world. The "dying leader" could be the human race ... or the old cylons, or both! They don't make it, because they can't survive on Earth, or else all kill each other in a final battle with the Cavill-led cylons. <p> Any thoughts?
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Interesting that D'Eanna only asked for four of the final 5. I have a feeling the last Cyclon is not going to be Gaeta,Zarek,Helo, Dualla etc. but someone would never have guessed or maybe havn't seen yet. (If it's any of the the 2nd tier characters it will be a copout)
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Long time, no TB.<p>Earth does look really crappy doesn't it. As has been said by other Herc and TBers, the Temple of Aurora, which was discussed by Kara and Lee in the beginning of the show is key. Like the open field in the Tomb of Athena where they saw the 12 constellations, it could be that they are all standing in the Temple of Aurora and cannot see the real Earth yet.
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the baby of Tigh and the 6. They landed on Earth at the ruins of Atlantis.
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I don't know why everyone wants it to NOT be Earth. Geez. It's Earth. Get over it. All of the star patterns/constellations lined up. All of the prophecies were fulfilled. (Tara certainly led them to "destruction.") So the Temple of Aurora is a slightly radioactive cinder? That's maybe a tad bit disappointing from a "I was expecting Garden of Eden" or welcoming parades from the descendants of the 13th colony perspective, but hey... time passes and sh*t happens. (Heck, this crew should know a thing or two about "not getting along" and, um... "nukes."<p> I thought it was an awesome ending. Now we have 10 more episodes for the gang to figure out whether they can live together on Earth in peace -- and live up to their true potential -- or repeat the cycle yet again.
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When the ships fly down to the planet, the continent they land on is clearly North America. (you can make out the Florida panhandle through the clouds) And that is totally the NYC skyline (or what remains of it) and the Brooklyn bridge in the foreground. "You maniacs!" Watch it in HD and see for yourself. Oh, and btw...I called it!
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D'Anna said it herself. It has to be someone who is supposedly dead.
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I mean earth is/was a dusty fuck. But the skinjobs looked just as dejected and disappointed as the other meatbags. Does their truce - uneasy as it was - disappear now? Or are there going to be alliances that we may not have thought possible becoming...possible? (Considering the change up we saw this year with Saul fucking Tigh?) Hell, maybe some will want to go *back* into space, just to simplify shit in their own minds.˙
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If it's Earth, then why is Roslin still alive?
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It's Earth, okay? 'Cause if it's just some other planet then it's not a shocking cliffhanger, it's just some random planet and that would be very boring. It's post-apocalyptic, future Earth. Period. But I have no idea why Roslin's still alive...guess we'll find out next year!
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The prophecies are; "And the lords anointed a leader to guide the Caravan of the Heavens to their new homeland." (The Hand of God). Pythia also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land. (The Hand of God). And Roslin said, The scriptures tell us a dying leader lead humanity to the promised land. (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I). Earth is not mentioned specifically, thus it may not be their new home.
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speculation rampant facts few get life drink a brew or have puff or more and move along and have some joy. see ya how are you how is it going later I'm gone
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That final tracking shot was a work of art. So much conveyed on their faces, gestures, the way each character moved, they way they were framed. Just outstanding scene. For once we really have no idea what is coming next and 2009 is a long, looooong way away. Fraking sci-fi network.
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And we done blown it up.
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I think it probably is the Brooklyn Bridge. Here is a photo comparison: <p> http://tinyurl.com/68nrz2
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It's not fucking alternate Earth. It's not fucking fake Earth. It's EARTH. It's the future, and we have blown ourselves to shit. <p> Watch in HD. You see clearly that it's our Earth. Listen to the dialogue. The constellations are correct. Look at the cityscape: It's New York city as seen from Brooklyn. The "temple" is just some architecture that looks like the remains of a library or government building. <p> So what's the story, then? <p> We blew ourselves to shit. Some of our human replicant/cylons got away (the five) and they were the first of the new humans. They aged slowly, but they did age, and their aging accelerated once the first Cylon war (in which Adama and Tigh fought) happened. The Cylons were created by people who are descendants of Cylons. The old centurians got away, and disappeared. They evolved to the human-like state, but retained some robotic ideals (resurrection ship, no individuality, supposedly sterile, etc.) but that all changed when they decided to attack Caprica and wipe out "humanity" -- They were attacking their own ancestors, including the five (four?) founders of their race. <p> So the series begins, the "humans" flee and seek Earth. The Cylons follow. It isn't until the human-like Cylons lose their immortality, gain individuality, begin procreating, and ally with "humans" that they are ALL able to find the world of their origin: Earth. <p> The final four (five?) are hearing an actual transmission from Earth-- A satellite signal beamed into deep space-- because they are still made from original Earth technology and something about them is tuned to that special frequency. It is because of this that they are able to tune into the homing beacon on the Viper, which has been altered (or supplied) with the same technology. <p> The four (five?) are as close to human as it gets-- They are the product of our Earth's future bio-engineering technology. They are essentially improved replicants. The line between humanity and engineered humanity is blurred to the point of being inconsequential. The rest of "humanity" are the descendants of Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, and Anders, and perhaps one more like them (which leads me to believe it's a female). <p>
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According to the various interviews I've read regarding the production of Razor, time travel was an element that they were thinking about including in the film, before they just decided to go with an extended flashback. Keep this in mind. Now, chromedome speculated that the history of the 13th Tribe was really just a prophecy of the fleet's journey, making the fleet the 13th Tribe. But how does that explain the fact that Earth had already been settled and subsequently destroyed? Simple. The fleet just goes back in time about 3000 years, sets all of the crazy guideposts that have led the fleet here, and settles down on Earth. Somehow. Given Ronald Moore's apparent willingness to entertain time travel, we therefore cannot rule it out when trying to explain Earth. It doesn't sound like a very good idea, nor a very plausible one, but I think at this point we're leaving all options open.
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1. Earth: Humans create robots. 2. Earth: Humans advance robots into android. 3. Earth: Humans advance androids into bio-engineered replicants. 4. Earth: World War erupts. Several (or maybe just five) of the replicants get away. 5. Kobol/Caprica: The five (or more) arrive. 6. Kobol/Caprica: The five (or more) discover how to breed. They do. 7. "Humans" are born. They spread across the galaxy. 8. Humans create robots (Cylons). 9. The five program themselves to forget their origins, start aging, and start "normal" lives once the Cylons are created, or upon other historical events (war's end, etc.) 10. The Cylons rebel, and war begins. One of the five actually fights in the war (Tigh). 11. The Cylons retreat, and begin upgrading themselves. 12. Years later, they've perfected the same process that created the original replicants, but as they're robots, they build them with robotic ideals: No procreation. No individuality. Limited appearances. No aging or death. <p> 13. Cylons attack Caprica and the colonies. They chase their creators (including the five) across the stars. <p> 14. The nebula channels a signal from Earth, and it snaps the five out of their self-induced programming/hypnosis. No memories remain, though. <p> 15. The Cylons split up. 16. The Cylons that embrace mortality, procreation, individuality, and truce are led to Earth. 17. The "humans" only get to Earth once they embrace the idea that "skin jobs" are essentially human, and grant amnesty to the five. 18. Together, the various collected ancestors of the original human replicants discover their ancestral homeworld's tragic past. 19. All that remains is to make the connection between each other and join as one species on Earth, as they should have done ages before. 20. Profit!
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I won't post all that with proper breaks unless someone requests it.
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I like the idea that Roslin might not be the dying leader. Who is it that is shown in the shroud over which Adama is weeping in the hiatus teaser? It might very well be Roslin, but it might be someone else - the dying leader? One guess is that it's Lee. His and Roslin's brief exchange near the end of the episode doesn't seem to me to settle one way or the other whether he will remain president or relinquish his position to Roslin (who is, after all, in quite weakened by her cancer). Perhaps Lee will be the dying leader. My hope is that Ron Moore will bring something out of the bag that nobody will have thought of yet. I agree that the there may be MacGuffins guiding people's speculations (e.g. the dying leader, the oft-repeated "all of this has happened before..." quote). If Moore really thought of the ending of the series during the middle of season 1, those may very well have been carefully planted. The challenge in straying too far from people's expectations, of course, is resolving plotlines in a way that seems to fly in completely out of left field. Anyways, I ought to be grading shitty undergraduate papers, and instead I'm wasting time reading TB! Thank that gods for that!
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This episode is a classic and proves BSG is still capable of greatness. Suspenseful, intelligent and character-driven, a return to the glory days of S1 and S2. I applaud the brave storytelling decision to reach this point mid-season. I've ragged on S4 till now because I know the show is capable of better. Congrats to the cast and crew and let's hope they also bring their A-game in 2009.
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June 14, 2008, 4:13 p.m. CST
Honestly I dont want all the answers to come out even in 2009...
by pax256
I think theres too much to cover in just 12 hours left plus a 2hr movie or 2 or 3. The history here must be massively complex so itd be a shame to waste a quick resume of that history in a few hours of shows left. And I want stuff to look forward to in the Caprica spin off. Do you guys really only want Caprica to be a soap opera?
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I love the idea that the final five (or four, in case the final cylon is another matter entirely) programmed themselves to forget who they are. One problem with this would be the fact that, if they've been aging normally, Tigh is considerably older than the others. Perhaps he could turn out to have been a leader among them who set his own aging in motion much earlier: to be-friend the future leader of the human fleet? Now, I'm veering into wild speculation, but I like the idea: it could make for a nicely dramatic 'recollection' scene...
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...but the scene is vague enough that it could be any bridge. The image posted gives the impression of the Brooklyn bridge; but one of the arches is missing and the break (on the right where the arch should be) is just too clean. But then in the end it doesn't really matter what bridge on EARTH it is.
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Very nice theories.
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I don't think that this planet is Earth. They never once showed a shot of any recognizable land masses from space, no solar system shot. The only "proof" of it being Earth is that the constellations match, which leaves some room for error. If this is "the moment" this show has been leading towards for four years, why not capitalize on the emotional payoff of it CLEARLY being Earth, with a grand recognizeable view from space, instead of a cloudy blue planet? I mean, what we saw in the across-the-galaxy zoom in shot at the very end of season 3 was Earth, without a doubt. This planet? Not so much. And if it IS Earth, well... frak. If I were those guys, I'd be all, "Well, this place sucks. Wanna go back to New Caprica? Cool. Jump!"
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...they, like you mentioned, were at war! Keeping the hub at their home planet would logically put it out of range, and therefore not allow their fallen soldiers to be resurrected. That's why they had to bring it with them. Plus, it wasn't like the thing was on the front lines with any of them. It was tucked just at the edge of their base ships, and periodically jumps to make it even harder to find. And please peope, this IS Earth. It's all fucked up now and that's that. There are still tons of questions to ponder over (like who brought Kara back), but as for where Earth itself is? It was just answered.
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Regarding the constellations matching up being the only proof, it is notable that when Gaeta "confirmed" them, he clearly said "visible constellations" are a match, meaning that all of the constellations were NOT visible.
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I think we can all agree that the show has decided to take a good deal of poetic license at this point, with the most recent evidence being that the landing party included All Our Favorite BATTLESTAR GALACTICA Characters! <br><br> I can understand a geological survey team, and I can even give a pass to active military personnel like Adama and Starbuck. But what the hell were Anders, Tigh, Tyrol -- freaking Tori?? -- Roslin AND her Vice-President, Helo and Sharon, and Gaius freaking Baltar all doing down on the planet?? <br><br>You know, let's forget the fact that some of them would have stayed behind as a matter of practicality -- How the hell did they get to be on the same landing party?? And can you imagine the small talk on the ride down? Sheesh.
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What part of them saying "Visible constellations are a match" didn't you get? How can you ignore the very distinctive New York cityscape? How can you disregard the Brooklyn Bridge? What about the cross laying in the ruins of the church they're all standing in? IT IS EARTH. Why the fuck would they have an "oops! False alarm people. This isn't Earth. Let's keep looking." moment for a cliffhanger?<p> Trik_Ster - The fifth human-Cylon is the one who saved Kara. She never died. We never saw a body. We saw her viper go into the nebula, then we saw BOOM. The Final Cylon (also, perhaps, the First Cylon or First "new" human) supplied her with a new Viper somehow, but she didn't die. She was pulled in by a tractor beam, warp bubble, or some other Hail Mary sort of device. While she was unconscious, she was fed mental images. She was never on Earth, but she was shown what it *should* look like by someone who remembered it in better days, and her ship (new or rebuilt) was programmed with the same "homing" tech as the Final Five. <p> Of course, I could be happy with the story if this episode were the last, too. It would be kinda cool-- kind of a "Hey, you found Earth. Congratulations, shit-heads!" sort of ending.<p>
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All constellations are not visible all the time. It depends on the time of year, the position in space (which side of Earth are they on?), and other factors, so "visible constellations" means just that: "The ones that SHOULD be visible from this spot, this time of the solar year, are the ones I see."
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1. Earth: Humans create robots. <p> 2. Earth: Humans advance robots into androids.<p> 3. Earth: Humans advance androids into bio-engineered replicants.<p> 4. Earth: World War erupts (or perhaps human/android war). Several (or maybe just five) of the replicants get away.<p> 5. Kobol/Caprica: The five (or more) arrive. <p> 6. Kobol/Caprica: The five (or more) discover how to breed. They do. <p> 7. "Humans" are born. They spread across the galaxy. <p> 8. Humans create robots (Cylons). <p> 9. The five program themselves to forget their origins, start aging, and start "normal" lives once the Cylons are created, or upon other historical events (war's end, etc.) <p> 10. The Cylons rebel, and war begins. One of the five actually fights in the war (Tigh) and perhaps started aging earlier than others. <p> 11. The Cylons retreat, and begin upgrading themselves. <p> 12. Years later, Cylons have perfected the same process that created the original replicants, but as they're robots, they build them with robotic ideals: No procreation. No individuality. Limited appearances. No aging or death. <p> 13. Cylons attack Caprica and the colonies. They chase their creators (including the five) across the stars.<p> 14. The nebula channels a signal from Earth, and it snaps the five out of their self-induced programming/hypnosis. No memories remain, though. <p> 15. The Cylons split up over ideological differences. <p> 16. The Cylons that embrace mortality, procreation, individuality, and truce are led to Earth. <p> 17. The "humans" only get to Earth once they embrace the idea that "skin jobs" are essentially human, and grant amnesty to the five. <p> 18. Together, the various collected ancestors of the original human replicants discover their ancestral homeworld's tragic past. <p> 19. All that remains is to make the connection between each other and join as one species on Earth, as they should have done ages before. <p> 20. Profit!
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According to the podcast when she returned, she was dead. Of course, RDM could've been lying.
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From space, ALL Constellations are visible (although it might be a little difficult to see the one that the sun is currently in). On Earth, we can't see all the constellations at the same time because the Earth is 'behind' us, and we can't see them all over the course of a day because of daylight.
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...about what constellations should be seen from Earth; they're on Earth. Star patterns are very specific to the point of view you're at. And if the ones they expect all match..it's Earth. No if, ands or buts. It's not going to be the exact same star patterns over in the next star system. Of course it's very possible that all of this has been some trick to get them to come to the planet for whatever reason. Hasn't it been said that things won't end will and there won't be a "happily ever after ending"
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as close as the fleet was to Earth, the planet itself would have blocked the view of some constellations...
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means that they are now there, and the constellations in the Athena episode match those of earth as we know it.<p>So this is Earth. However, as chrth quoted above, the scrolls say the dying leader will not live to enter the new "homeland"--so they can be on Earth, Roslin can still be alive, and no 'rules' have been broken. They simply have not reached the "the new homeland" yet. But they have 11 more episodes to go lookin!
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Where are the Flying motorcycles gonna come from?
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Not that close to a planet, they're not all visible. There are the ones COVERED UP BY THE PLANET.
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...artistically. Sure, it could be Earth, I'm not going to be so magnanimous to think I have all the answers and say "there's no way that's Earth!". ;) <br><br> But, what I'm saying, is that if it IS Earth, the production team failed to a certain extent. They robbed the audience of what should've been an EASY emotional moment to produce. A visual moment that we've been waiting for and that they kind of owe us as an audience.<br<br> What made me think this in the first place was the moment the fleet jumped into orbit, the camera panned left, panned left, and as an audience member, I wanted to see Earth come into view. They never gave us that, and then every shot of the planet from space that we saw, they didn't show us any recognizeable continents.<br><br> So, in my <i>opinion</i>, either all that visual hemming and hawing was intentional because it's NOT Earth, or someone dropped the ball as far as the cinematography, especially after showing North America in the zoom in at the end of season 3. And I don't think the BSG crew is that sloppy, artistically. You kinda see what I mean?
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My comment got cut... continuing...<br><br> The reason why this jumped out at me was the moment when the fleet jumped into orbit. The camera panned left, panned left more, and then nothing. And then, after that, every shot of the planet we saw showed no identifiable continents. I wanted that moment of release, of excitement, as an audience member.<br><br> So, in my OPINION, either all that visual hemming and hawing was intentional because it's NOT Earth, or some folks dropped the ball creatively. What could've been an even more awesome moment was watered down. I dunno, I guess I don't think it's Earth because I expect so much from the BSG crew artistically, and that just seemed like a blown opportunity. (Especially after showing us Earth, North America and all, at the end of season 3.)
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..the Earth we saw at the end of season 3 could be considered the Earth the viewers expected to see. None of the characters on the show were actually looking at the Earth then. It was earth as Eden This time around we see Earth from the POV of the characters in the show. Unless this isn't the Earth; the cloud was there so represent actually conditions on the planet. The weather didn't exactly look great from the ground and shouldn't look great from orbit either. Now of course if this isn't Earth than there will never be an "Earth" on the show. Simply because all the info they had about getting to Earth took them to the place we see. I doubt we'll have the remaining 10 episodes deal with finding the REAL Earth
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Just throwing this out there because I don't hear much about it.<br><br> Kara is a cylon. She died (this has been confirmed via podcast) and has been 'resurrected' from the dead.<br><br> The only ones that get resurrected in the BSG universe are cylons. <br><br> I'm not claiming she's the fifth. Just that she's a cylon.<br><br> And the 13 tribes are the descendants of the original 13 models of Cylons that could reproduce.
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part of me reckons that this is the new series manifestation of the TERRA plots from the original series... but part of me hopes this IS earth and that the rest of the show is about going back to the colonies and kicking the cylons the hell out... it does seem though that given that the whole series has been about finding earth, that the whole "let's find earth in the last ten minutes of the episode" was too fast... in short i smell a rat. I get the feeling though, we are not supposed to be thinking about the cylon homeworld, the other 11 planets (not caprica) and why the entire cylon race (if the homeworld doesn't exist) decided to follow galactica.
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because the say it's fucking earth
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There, I said it.
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In the beginning, humans created Cylons - machine intelligence - and waged war on its creation. Not sure who started it but both sides were going for total annihilation of the other. They reached a stalemate and, given the chance, the Cylons evolved - turning out 12 biological models that were almost perfect imitations of their creators. But there was something special about fully half of those models - there's only one of them...
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How does something like that happen? Well, we've just seen - one of the boxed models is reborn.. So either the Four had their memories erased or blocked until, Manchurian style, their programming kicks in. And the fifth? Maybe had something to do with that programming kicking in? BUT that's not the whole picture...
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If Baltar was wounded in the side by a centurion (piece of a centurion), would that be signficant to the story?
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anyway the other skinjobs don't think about the boxed Five - maybe because they are trying to reproduce - to procreate, not just copy. Sure you can inflate your numbers easily enough with cloning but everybody knows a weak genepool makes for poor survival of the fittest. If you treat these other Cylons like humans (looking them in the eye and not recognising them, such is the strength of your programming about the Boxed models) you may end up making babies with one - through one of many strategies, including but not limited to Love
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Look at where they are now - they are integrated into human society and having kids - the "Love" strategy worked for them. They are a fully bona-fide Organism. We have created Life. Soon we will fully embrace it and then we will ascend to become the God-like beings we are - for we can create Life. <p> Maybe Earth is populated by post-humans? Cylons project and seem to possess other "super powers" - but lack the kind of genetic diversity that prevents extinction through the destruction of a manufacturing plant or "Hub" - until now...
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June 15, 2008, 3:26 a.m. CST
for all you who claim the 5th cylon is Zak Adama,
by porkinz the x-wing instructor
I said that in last week's talkbalk. Just watch, it's going to be him.....or Grandpa Adama the laywer... Why? Remember the line of dialogue in one of the episodes, they say something like, "Adamas can lead because they are Adamas"????? That's the clue, people!!
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Kara Thrace is the harbinger of the apocalypse - well, she has in fact revealed a post-apocalyptic Earth. She will lead humanity to it's end - yup, she lead the fleet to where humanity's (first) world ended.
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Jacob, the dude who writes the BSG reviews/recaps for Television Without Pity, was originally adamant that we were looking at the remains of NYC at the end of the episode. Aside from what he considered to be key visual clues, he felt the show's mandate to serve as allegorical commentary on war and terrorism in a post-9/11 world made landing in a bombed-out NYC all the more logical. Last night he posted a follow-up to his recap that said this: "Okay. I have it on very good authority that we are not looking at the Brooklyn Bridge, and that this is not NYC. Which bums me out -- the show's about 9/11, of course they should land in NYC -- but ... it's not. Being unspoiled, I can't know more than that, and being professional, my Deep Throat wouldn't tell me more anyway, but trust me when I say this is straight-up confirmed: Not New York." Take that for what you will, but when he's quoted his anonymous sources within the BSG production team in the past, he's always been dead on.
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I don't know if you're 100% right, but it's worth noting that in Sci-Fi's promo for the 2nd half of the series, there's a close-up on a hand holding the ring that Zak gave Starbuck (as we saw in those initial flashbacks) and dogtags -- his? And what does Saul's voice say? "You're the fifth Cylon."
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(Bear in mind I've not watched any trailers for the second half of the season, etc, so this may already be explained)<br><br> What if Earth is destroyed, as we saw, because the Cavil-led faction managed, somehow, to get there first and wiped it out in a fit of petulant anger?<br><br> Also, has no-one considered that Kara Thrace is 'the dying leader' - after all, she led them to Earth AND died before they got there (which, if I remember rightly, was one of the fundamental lines from the scriptures)?
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The prophecies of Pythia and the ramblings of the Hybrid overlap quite a lot, but there is enough differeniation between "a leader suffering from a wasting diease shall lead the Caravan of the Heavens" and "the dying leader shall know the truth of the Opera House" to make the case that while Laura is leading them to a new home she herself won't savor, it is Natalie who has discovered the truth of the Opera House. <br><br> Gaeta's confirmation that the constellations match is a big hurdle in disproving that the planet they've reached is Earth. Now I didn't notice it in this episode, but all season long the producers have been sneaking in the actual constellations seen from Earth. (Most notable being Orion.) And we had the super push in last season showing Jupiter, the Sun, and an instantly recognizeable Earth. But now that they're at their destination, all definite visual clues are missing. The close-ups of Earth are vague. Some see the coastline of the United States (specifically the Florida panhandle) but it actually looks a lot like Kobol, Caprica, and New Caprica did: Earth-ish, but not an exact match. <br><br> You could argue that enough time has passed and Earth is geographically different from its current real world configuration, but we have an established visual (if it can be trusted) that shows the BSG Earth looks exactly the same as the real Earth. <br><br> I'm holding to my theory they've reached Terra, not Earth. What they've discovered is a Second Earth that was established as a colony by Cylons sent from the real (relatively nearby) Earth. <br><br> Wonder if in the end, the very end, the Fleet decides to seek new sanctuary in some distant corner of the galaxy. And as they jump away from the outskirts of a system, the camera pushes in to reveal the real Earth, analagous to modern times, with the Cylon God/Jealous God/Count Iblis/Head Six/Head Baltar/Dirk Benedict smiling up at the sky, content that the interlopers have been kept from spoiling his/her/its domain.
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...was visible to me from space when all the ships were landing on EARTH! And it's not just an annihilated NYC, it's a post-apocalyptic NYC, perhaps many THOUSANDS of years after said event happened. So the Earthlings or Cylons, or whoever it was, didn't just blow up the planet last week...
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http://tinyurl.com/4y4bo8
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I don't think that quote's got much to do with it, but I've always thought it's gonna be Zak too. To have it be Gaeta or some bullshit like that would be, well, it would be bullshit. I like to think this show is too good to have some pulled-out-of-a-hat garbage to explain its hugest mystery. Zak would be a true mindfuck, in the best possible way.
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That's what Katee said in an interview -- when people find out who the fifth is, many of them will be disappointed.
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"The 5th is not in the fleet." So it's one of the three...and that's the end of it.
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June 15, 2008, 1:02 p.m. CST
One Cryptic Part That No one Here Seems To Have Remembered
by Real Deal
At the begining of the program Star Buck And Apollo are talking about parents and SB says : " Sometimes for children to reach their full potential the parents have to die ". Now was she refering to Adama or mankind and the Cylons or what? It sounded like foreshadowing to me.
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Bill Adama, maybe, because his dad (as we may see in Caprica) could have created him. But how the fuck is Zak going to be a cylon without Bill knowing? This is the most retarded theory I've heard yet (including the lame one from last week that Starbuck was an InHead apparition.)
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It will be a disappointment. People will be mad. Some will love it. Others will throw out the same old sentence,"I will never watch this show again." As for myself I don't care. All I really care about is seeing all the storylines resolved. That would be the biggest treat for me.
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the hurricane they fly over is rotating opposite of northern hemisphere hurricanes.
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Show up on DVD? Are they gonna make us wait until Christmas? Or LONGER!!!???
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There seems to be a lot of denial over the fact that they just found Earth, and this is probably intentional on RDM's part. When the fleet arrived at Earth, there was very little identifiable about the planet, rather unlike the "Earth as Eden" from the end of Season 3 that Uroboros pointed out. The cloud cover is so dense that we can't make out any continents. We see a heavily silhouetted planet in the opening shot. And the post-apocalyptic skyline seems familiar, yet strange, perhaps due to it being representative of a far future NYC. Everything here points to Earth, but it makes us feel uncomfortable about it- as in, "This may be Earth, but it's not MY Earth!"<br> <br> There, however, is no question in my mind that this is Earth... in the "You blew it all up!" scene at the very end, we see a cross lying on the ground in the ruined church. RDM has been very careful to remove all Christian icons from BSG, to the point where Katee Sackhoff's tattoos have to be covered up in every episode. If RDM is showing us a cross NOW, then that can only mean one thing...
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though, just for reference, the cross was method of execution, and was not a religious symbol prior to Christianity.
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Why do people think the Final Five seeded the 12 colonies? What if the 12 colonies are humans who escaped Earth and the Final Five are Cylon sleeper agents from Earth (where a human-Cylon war had taken place) and who didn't find Earth until much later? That would explain their individual timelines (they wouldn't have to age slowly or be immortal or whatever; they just showed up late because it took them awhile to find the 12 colonies).
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"Why is the path unclear? When we know home is neeear" :) <P> I think it's Earth. They're in the right place, but Kara's arrival earlier somehow led to the destruction.
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http://picasaweb.google.com/gslife/BSG/photo#5211864519944216642
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Regarding the Temple of Jupiter, D'Anna wondered aloud to Baltar whether there was a connection between the Cylon god and their gods.<p>Earth or Not Earth, IMHO what they discovered has more to do with that connection than the fact that humanity messed it all up once again.
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an interesting anomaly.. i am one of the "It's not earth people" anyway. I went for a quick look on google earth and google maps. to see if i could find a matching view- the amount of" Manhattan "one could see in right of the BSG shot seemed to be less than what i thought it should...However nearly RIGHT ON THE SPOT where the camera would have had to have been .. is the Jehovah's witness's Watchtower building..
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All Along the Watchtower, indeed...
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http://tinyurl.com/5fmw28 go to street view and have a look around.... weird?
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After he made Dubya's tax cuts permanent, the total collapse of America's infrastructure was assured.
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The skyline looks more similar from the Manhattan end...
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Here's a notion: 'Adam' from the Genesis story is based on the ancient term 'adama', which stands for the dust/earth/stuff from which all humans were created. Any thoughts? Also, Cylons are among us. They have continued to evolve. Proof? Adama --> Obama: the leader who will help us change Tigh --> McCain: they fucking look the same and suffered in war Roslin --> Clinton: some Cylons get less foxy with newer iterations. Yeah, I know it's bullshit! :D
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Is the rest of the season just going to be the Battlestar crew and the Cylons playing "MIst?" Or is it just going to become a Samuel Becket play? Personally, I was hoping they landed in 1980.
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The Tb'ers who mention this quote as foreshadowing I believe are on the right track. The parents must die in order for the children to reach their full potential seems to mesh quite nicely with a cyclical theme. The show has also gone out of their way to give "birth" to many children, whether it be Hera, Tyrol's kid, Six/Tigh kid, or all the induced pregnancies on old Caprica. (Episode where Starbuck was in a breeding farm on Caprica). Eventually, as was foreshadowed by the "potential quote", all of our main characters, cylon and human, will die off and fade into memory, leaving the untainted kids to carry on as a new race so to speak. And maybe one day these kids, armed with legends and myths of times past, will create new artificial life themselves which maybe one day will rebel and against them and the cycle continues. But in essence what we are and what we create are all one in the same.
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I believe all the "humans" are artificial creations of a previous race (gods), and through the passage of time have come to believe they were the first and that the gods are just metaphysical and not literal. They in turn themselves became creators, making the current cylons. I think that IS Earth, and all that is happening now has happened before in that the creations destroyed their creators. In a sense we always "kill" our gods, usually in that they fall out of belief much like the Greek gods did. This is also how the children reach their full potential...by becoming gods themselves. Gods don't have gods.
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June 16, 2008, 4:08 a.m. CST
I would be disappointed if the Fifth Cylon turned out to be Zak
by Maniaq
But something tells me it's Roslin. It's got to be a girl, surely? Sorry, but I just don't see anything significant enough about Tori, for it to be four guys and one girl. It's got to be a girl not in the fleet - Roslin! 3 already revealed it - maybe not on purpose - but did a double-whammy fake out maybe it is... <p> President of what's left of Humanity is better than Just Another Cylon from a tactical POV. <p> jus sayin
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... something along the lines of "if what I heard is true ..." about the final Cylon. That was also a long time ago. Much later on, EJO said they'd only just found out who it is (for sure) around the time of the filming of one of the last episodes. <p> Also, they frequently have the cast throwing out red herrings on purpose as well. So I wouldn't read too much into what she said until we find out who it is.
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... if you're obsessing over who the Fifth Cylon is, you're a deeply sad little person. You're the same people who were hooked by the prospect of seeing M. Night Shymalyan's "FIRST R-RATED MOVIE."
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THIS.<P>IS.<P> GALACTICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Where to begin?!?!
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you are a tasty fail burrito, smothered in pwnt sauce.
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I DVR'd Friday nights episode, and just watched it last night. Simply amazing. I haven't been this enamored with a TV show since Twin Peaks came out.
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go figure
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No doubt; it was riveting television. The stretch of the show that encompassed Tigh's confession, Adama's breakdown, and Lee's stand-off was INCREDIBLE.<P>*** I'm a huge TWIN PEAKS fan, too! ***
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This Talkback deserves a return to Blue Ribbon status.
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Agreed. Adama's revelation and new understanding about Cylons based on his lifelong friendship with Tigh was deep. And yes, Tigh THE MAN in Revelations. Also,the growth that Lee showed as a man and a leader has been powerful.<p>BTW I have to ask this since there's been so much discussion about it, what's your take on whether its Earth or not Earth?
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...that struck me immediately upon viewing this episode (and I really don't mean to sound like I'm tooting my own horn here):<P>1. The notion that they would arrive on Earth only to find it an apparent bombed-out husk is something I distinctly recall theorizing about in earlier BSG Talkbacks. In fact, I believe I said something to the effect that they arrive on Earth, realize that we (The 13th Tribe) have destroyed ourselves, the planet is uninhabitable, and the Fleet is forced to move on and, once again, search for a new home. (At the time, some of my fellow Talkbackers thought that idea was a little too bleak.)<P>But wow! If that is indeed Earth, I was pretty damn close. And what we just saw was pretty frakkin' crazy!<P>2. I also mentioned in Talkback (sometime during the announcements for the start/length of Season 4) that I read an interview with Eick who said that there was no question the Fleet will find Earth - and they may find it earlier than people think. Herc actually replied and said that he had it on good authority that they would not find Earth until the very end of the series. Now, if what they found is the real Earth, I want some sort of AICN No-Prize.<P>Herc! Do you hear me?! I want my No-Prize!<P>:^)
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....there will be savage beatings.
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we be movin' on up!
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Very tough question. And there is already an abundance of good speculating going on in this TB. Kudos to all of you guys for really hashing this thing out.<P>I'm inclined to believe that the planet is the real Earth (the huge stone crucifix in one of the background shots, the familiar -though vague- city skyline, and the alleged glimpes of North America from orbit). If that's the case, then I'm really intrigued by the "The Fleet is the new 13th Colony Theory". That would make sense in the circular nature of their scriptures.<P>However, if it's not the real Earth, then we have yet another entirely new ballgame about to go afoot. Either way, I think we can all agree that there is a 3rd party invested in the future of the Humans and Cylons.
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I'm of the opinion that whether you like Tigh as a Cylon or not, he is probably the best written character on the show (Baltar is up there, too). Which is is odd when you consider his ranking amongst the top characters (Adama, Roslin, Apollo, Starbuck, and Baltar). But it really says a heck of a lot about Michael Hogan's consistently brilliant performance as our favorite one-eyed Ex-O.
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...Adama, Roslin, and Baltar. They've all had an abundance of Emmy-worthy moments as far as I'm concerned.
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The connection between D'Anna's/ Six's Cylon god and the gods of the colonies mentioned in my earlier post is likely the 3rd party and is apt to be as devastating as the Earth revelation, if the planet ends up being Earth.<p>Based on everything that has happened with the destruction of the colonies, the Cylon civil war, the hub, and now a devastated planet Earth, if someone was to ask if the 3rd party was friend or foe, I would have to say foe at this point.
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when we know my theory is correct? ;)
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Why? Because it's frakkin' awesome! Heh.
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Courtesy of The Zone:<P> http://tinyurl.com/6yhsxw<P> "Holy cow, I love this episode beyond the saying of it, and 'thank you' to the fans who have been going out of their way to tell all of us that, too. Adama's reaction to the reveal was stunning -- my gods -- and Starbuck-- her face said it all. A thunderclap. Simply beautiful. You wouldn't want more and you can't imagine less. I'm stating the obvious when I say that a more labored reaction would've attenuated the emotions, given the characters a chance to gather themselves before the big blow that was to come, which certainly would be a mistake. And there's a difference, of course, between finding out that your XO is a Cylon if he's handing you a giftbox filled with a fertile verdant Earth, and finding out that he's holding a cinder-planet. I think the *real* reactions are yet to come, just like in life. The beauty of this episode is in its urgency, in the tumbling breathless slide that lands us on that grim gr ay unfamiliar beach... It's so gray, in fact, that I think it earns the British spelling. It's grey, which is even worse.<P>And -- oh -- that haunting devastated city there, with the massive ruined temple and our people trying to find their footing in a strange dead city I did not recognize... that image just kills me. Every time I watch this episode, I well up with hope, and it lasts right up through that handful of soil, and then the radiation counter breaks my heart all over again. I do not easily tear up, but the race to the planet -- don't the ships look like they're *running*? I always think of running... Anyway, that race and then the reveal brings tears to my eyes in a way I'm not sure I've experienced before during a television show. Someday I'll see those images without having to blink through them. Right?<P>David and Bradley (David Weddle and Bradley Thompson, our writers) did an excellent job throughout this rocketsled of an episode - the writing had to be so delicate, precise and emotional... and they also did such a good job doing little things like dealing with the fallout from my episode the previous week. Baltar saying he loves living is such a gem of a moment among a cascade of gems -- thanks for that, David and Brad! And then, of course, the big stuff starts happening and never ever lets up.<P>When we screened this episode at Ron's house, months ago, we all sat stunned, and then agreed it was perhaps the best the show had ever produced. And seeing it Wednesday and again Friday night with fans in attendance bore that out... every time the blue clouded planet was revealed, I could hear the inhales of hope, despite the lack of indication of any continents -- and I knew we were about to break some hearts. But, I hope, they only broke like mine did.<P>I wish we could bring you the next episode right away. In my mind the two fit together so closely so as to almost be a two-parter, and I have that awful sense of having had a phone call cut off mid-sentence with so much left unsaid.<P>There's so much left unsaid.<P>Thanks to the fans from me, but especially from David and Bradley -- these two episodes are their babies, and they are so grateful for the appreciation they've been receiving. We all put our hearts and tears and then more hearts into these episodes, and they become parts of us like our flesh. So thank you. Very much. We have the best fans in television.<P>(And you cannot trick me into revealing the identity of the Fifth by pretending you don't care! I won't fall for that! Not again.)<P>Smiling,<br>Jane"
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There's a significant point that I haven't seen mentioned yet; let's see if my paragraphs work. <p> The Shiny New Viper's "Earth" homing signal manifested to the Frakkin' Four as static, interfering with or replacing their "Watchtower" vibe. It even temporarily incapacitated Tori (who may be especially susceptible to it's influence... I expect this to be important later). <p> Therefore, the SNV signal (and by extension Kara) comes from a *different*, and *opposed*, source than does the FF signal. This supports those posters who have pointed out that the fleet was *not* supposed to follow Kara, but rather somehow follow the FF+1. Kara's rationalization for how the FF "led" them to their current location seems pretty weak to me; their prophetic role has been co-opted, not fulfilled. <p> So, one signal comes from one faction (let's call them the Ship of Lights), and another comes from another faction (e.g., Iblis). But which is which? It's tempting to assume that nuked-out "Earth" is more Iblis-y; on the other hand, in the original show, Iblis was all about the pretty temptations and the hopeful promises, not overt destruction and despair. <p> <p> Regarding the Cylon God: While it hasn't yet been spelled out explicitly in the show, hasn't there been an awful lot of in-show hinting and out-of-show commentary over the years to the effect that the 13th Lord of Kobol wanted to be top god, fought the others until Kobol was ruined, and left with the 13th Tribe to found (or re-occupy) Earth (with Himself as the only God)? In which case, it can hardly be coincidence that the Cylons are monotheists. <p> Yes, that was certainly a stone cross at the landing site. While it could just be part of some architectural element (a dome would tend to have intersecting vertical and horizontal support elements and decorations), it could also be an actual religious crucifix, *whether or not this is Earth*, as long as a hypothetical "Terra" was founded by, based on, modelled after, or was guided to evolve parallel to Earth (or vice-versa).
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HA! Temple of Aurora. I totally called it.
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The 13th tribe left before the upheaval on Kobol (4000 versus 2000 years ago). It was at the latter event that one of the Lords became a "jealous god" and all the colonists left Kobol. The Earth-bound colonists left before then.
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Yes, and if that is indeed what she is implying, then I believe you can see the remains of the temple right before the panning shot moves towards the skyline.<P>(There looked to be some rubble that was in a circular shape; much like the center design of the temple rendering that Apollo was looking at in the beginning of the episode...)
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Oh, boy. The Earth debate is going to continue.<p>Sorry, chrth.
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Thanks for the clarification. In which case Lord #13 could still go to Earth and co-opt the 13th Tribe.
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That after the Colonists fled Kobol, that the other Lords exiled the Cylon God ... whereupon he converted the Cylons (thus fulfilling the destiny of his name ;) ). It is possible that the Cylon God went after the Thirteenth Tribe before finding the Cylons ... but what if he was using the Cylons in order to find them? Maybe, in the end, everyone wants to unite with the 13th Tribe.
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;)<p> The lack of continents might be because they don't want to reveal what era it is due to continental drift.<p> Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether this is Earth or not. It's where the 13th Tribe is that's important.
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It does seem as if the 13th Tribe is all about unity, according to its actions revealed in Pythia and so forth (i.e. the beacon).<p>I guess there is a chance that they are the 3rd party MNG mentioned, which would make my 3rd-party-as-foe theory incorrect.
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I literally have the song still stuck in my head from Friday night's viewing. Even dreamt about BSG last night - hope I'm not a frakking toaster! <p> Did you catch the other Buffy shout-out? Saul Tigh with a chip in his head a la Spike? I giggled before Bill Adama shut that down quick.
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Nice call about two possible 3rd party factions - Ship of Lights vs. Iblis (although, like planet Earth, both will surely be re-imagined in a big way).
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a la Matrix Reloaded with a revelation that this Earth they finally found is in fact the old Earth (duh, I know). That this cycle of human vs. AI civil war has all happened before, but now in reverse. The final 5 being the last remaining ancestors of an old hybrid race of human/cylon hybrids (hence why humans/cylons are able to copulate). In an attempt to break the civil war cycle after escaping the destroyed old Earth they created a false prophecy that would require a truce and the final 5 ancestors. Now that they have reached Earth they'll just begin to realize the whole "Matrix & Zion has been destroyed and rebuilt 3958329853 times" and attempt to break the cycle. The End.
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We saw a modern looking N. America at the end of last season, so that limits the amount of drift that could have occured. But I agree with you that its more about finding the 13th tribe than finding a place called earth. Otherwise New Caprica (or even the algae planet) seem to have been better choices to settle down.
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Just to throw my two cents in here, I think they reached earth just for the inclusion of that long montage of everybody celebrating-- not just our leads-- we had a veritable gaggle of extras in the engine rooms, etc all getting super pumped about it. It doesn't seem like this show's style to have such a cathartic sequence and then be like, 'gotcha.'<P>But the cross is a really good point too. I'd be disappointed if they just up and leave.
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How about Adm. Kain? That would make Razor's existence a lot less puzzling...
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notspock2 mentioned this as a coincidence about 30 posts ago, sounded interesting so i did some googling... <br> apparently, if the Galactica folks did indeed land in NYC, next to the Brooklyn Bridge, from the vantage point we're given - they would be standing about where the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower building exists today. <br> Here's some pics I found:: <br> The watchtower is seen here at the end of the rainbow::<br> http://cosy.com/y02/images/BBrainbowscr.jpg <br> Watchtower complex::<br> http://www.thatreligiousstudieswebsite.com/images/Sects/jw_watchtower_brooklyn.jpg <br> Watchtower sign::<br> http://dumbonyc.com/images/blog/dumboWatchtower1.jpg <br> mapped ::<br> http://www.truechristian.com/img/jwhl.jpg <br> Can anyone in NYC give us more info?<br>
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pics should still be active
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...check out this link with a related story from today's news.<p>http://tinyurl.com/4rrmx4
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Maybe the Jehovah's Witnesses build the Temple of Aurora at their Watchtower compound? <BR> Surely, wouldn't be a plot-point...maybe an inside joke amongst the writers - but one that would be indicative of placing the characters in future NYC.
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confirm with a show-related source that they were absolutely not in NYC? (Although, if they were, you're right-- the Watchtower building is directly across from the Brooklyn Bridge.)
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This is the oldmanhybrid's babble from Razor.<p>"He will find her." Is he talking specific people? Earth? And "the Fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light." Sheds a little light on what differetiates the fifth from the Final Four. Even the hybrid knew the Fifth was different. So D'Anna's "the fifth isn't in the fleet" can't be taken so literally to mean "dead" or "on the basestar". Interesting... <p> "Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning."
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Earth or, if not Earth, how about their new home?
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...will claw toward the light."<p>"in the shadows" is likely someone no one expects while "clawing" "toward the light" could be the signal that when he or she begins stepping forward - beware.
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Wish I had time right now to respond to more of your post.<p>Hopefully other TBers will chime in soon while it's still a TOP TB.
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Tigh finding Six. Which also includes: "Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one." and "The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable" refers to the pregnancy (I'd wager)<p> "I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many" ... the Cylon Civil War, natch<p> "then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning." ... so the Cylons will join with the 13th Tribe to? Wings of an angel: the In-Heads? Kara Thrace?<p> "And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." ... too good to parse
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baltar? thrace?
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Not Baltar -- he's at peace, I reckon. Unless he was bullshitting Roslin.<p> Thrace -- eh, not anymore, I mean, she got everybody to Ear-<p> Fuck me, I got it. Gaeta. Redemption is regarding New Caprica/Baltar (Butterfingers!) ... and the howl of terrible suffering was his leg.<p> I don't know of anyone else that fits the criteria. Not Helo (the line isn't "hungering for self-righteousness that will only come in the howl of smugness"), not Doc Cottle, not Dualla ... there really aren't many other characters to choose from.
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Baltar found tory while the final four were confused, and fucked her. Hungering for redemption - Baltar. howl of terrible suffering- Baltar been tortured or injured the most. All along The Watchtower lyric, "All the women came and went, barefoot servants too". Not Gaeta thats for sure
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I don't see Baltar and Tory as enemies. How would it be unthinkable between the two?<p> Nah, I'm reasonably certain it's Tigh and Six.
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I think they considered themselves enemies cos she was Roslins aid and with the whole trial
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I think the unthinkable bit is referring more to the human/cylon aliance
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Gaeta has assisted the Colonials on the path to Earth. While his role wasn't as spiritual as Tyrol's, he was still an instrumental part.
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He did lie on the stand and try to kill him didn't he. There's just as much arguement for both of them really. I'm gonna stick with Baltar though, cos he was blown to shit in the miniseries. I guess we'll have to come back here when it's revealed and see which one of us gets to tell the other one to suck eggs. Unless Zarek's the fifth
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I didn't spend 4 years cooped up in this dismal battlestar, to land on "shittier than Caprica"<p>Take your stinkin' Dome temple in the middle of NYC, and shove it up your ass.
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Hard to answer that one. There are four non-Cylons who could be hungering for redemption.<p>Adama could still hunger for redemption over Zack, which to this day, colors his relationship with Lee. Kara could still have some redemption issues over with respect to Zack too.<p>Helo saved Baltar in the beginning so that could put him the same category as Gaeta concerning the need for redemption(i.e. assisting Baltar and indirectly helping him to hurt others).<p>Then of course there's Baltar.
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Maybe Kara brought on this destruction from her first trip to earth. Did she lead the cylons to Earth only to have them destroy all life on the planet? Will the humans and the cylons turn on eachother in the final episodes of the series when they humans find out that the cylons were the ones responsible?
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that the old man wanted redemption in revelations. At least forgiveness.
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A shade is someone who has died. So the one in shadow could mean someone who is dead. <p> Who has died in the course of the show that would need to return to life and seek out redemption? And who would've had to have died before the music activated the other members of the Final Five?<p> Kendra Shaw - She murdered civilians. She confessed to the Hybrid, but he really didn't give her absolution. <p> Admiral Cain - What doesn't she have to atone for? Executions, ordering brutal rapings and beatings, abandoning her sister, attempting to murder a fellow officer and subvert the Colonial government. The problem is, whatever conscience Helena had, it rarely bothered her in life. Perhaps what she found in the shadow, at the hands of her former Six lover, has changed all that. Ellen Tigh - The show's Lady Macbeth, a woman who caused nothing but trouble in her quest for power and prestige. Her arrival in the Fleet was never adequately explained. (She was knocked out during the Cylon attack, a mysterious benefactor put her on an escaping ship?) To save her husband's life, she slept with the enemy and was selling out the resistance. And on top of all that, she was notorious for being unfaithful to her husband, sleeping with "half the Fleet" according to Adama. (However, that may have been part of her plan to gain Saul and herself powerful connections for exploitation.) Starbuck's mother - A cold woman at best, a child abuser at worst. She never had a kind word for her daughter, even though she kept telling Kara that her full potential and destiny had yet to be tapped. Starbuck's vision could've been a form of absolution...but one more for Starbuck. The mother's redemption may still be holding. Jammer - Someone who made a string of bad choices and ended up compromised on all sides. He tried to do what was right, but it was too little too late. Executed by the Circle, he met a fate that was planned for Tigh, Tyrol, and Anders and experienced by a Leoben. Jack Fisk - Cain's replacement right-hand man kowtowed to her orders in abject fear. He did nothing as Shaw instigated the slaughter of civilians. And even once freed from Cain's grasp, he was still afraid of her shadow. He came to a violent end without making a proper confession, only half-drunken admissions that he immediately denied. Those are the top suspects I can think of for chracters dead (in shadow) and needing redemption (crawling towards the light). <p> For me, the most likely candidate for Final Cylon is: Ellen Tigh. <p> She has the connection to Saul. Her story of surviving the Colonial holocaust is dubious at best. She has much to atone for just from New Caprica alone. Saul, upon finding out he himself was a Cylon, wondered, "What about Ellen?" Caprica Six has appeared to Saul as Ellen, and two women share an uncanny resemblance. Ellen often divided those around her, fomenting chaos in the name power and manipulation.<p> If not Ellen, the next best suspect would have to be Kendra Shaw. Her dark times on the Pegasus and the interaction with the Hybrid makes her a prime candidate. It would also explain why she was the focus of Razor, the bridging segment between Cain and Apollo, a cautionary tale of what following orders too closely can lead to.<p> But who knows? Maybe former presidential aide Billy had some deep dark secrets we never got a chance to learn about. And Roslin thought he'd one day serve as President. Sure would give Dualla a kick in shins since she threw him off in favor of Apollo!<p>
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A shade is someone who has died. So the one in shadow could mean someone who is dead.<p> Who has died in the course of the show that would need to return to life and seek out redemption? And who would've had to have died before the music activated the other members of the Final Five? <p> Kendra Shaw - She murdered civilians. She confessed to the Hybrid, but he really didn't give her absolution. <p> Admiral Cain - What doesn't she have to atone for? Executions, ordering brutal rapings and beatings, abandoning her sister, attempting to murder a fellow officer and subvert the Colonial government. The problem is, whatever conscience Helena had, it rarely bothered her in life. Perhaps what she found in the shadow, at the hands of her former Six lover, has changed all that. <p> Ellen Tigh - The show's Lady Macbeth, a woman who caused nothing but trouble in her quest for power and prestige. Her arrival in the Fleet was never adequately explained. (She was knocked out during the Cylon attack, a mysterious benefactor put her on an escaping ship?) To save her husband's life, she slept with the enemy and was selling out the resistance. And on top of all that, she was notorious for being unfaithful to her husband, sleeping with "half the Fleet" according to Adama. <p> Starbuck's mother - A cold woman at best, a child abuser at worst. She never had a kind word for her daughter, even though she kept telling Kara that her full potential and destiny had yet to be tapped. Starbuck's vision could've been a form of absolution...but one more for Starbuck. The mother's redemption may still be holding. <p> Jammer - Someone who made a string of bad choices and ended up compromised on all sides. He tried to do what was right, but it was too little too late. Executed by the Circle, he met a fate that was planned for Tigh, Tyrol, and Anders and experienced by a Leoben. <p> Jack Fisk - Cain's replacement right-hand man kowtowed to her orders in abject fear. He did nothing as Shaw instigated the slaughter of civilians. And even once freed from Cain's grasp, he was still afraid of her shadow. He came to a violent end without making a proper confession, only half-drunken admissions that he immediately denied. <p> Those are the top suspects I can think of for chracters dead (in shadow) and needing redemption (crawling towards the light). <p> For me, the most likely candidate for Final Cylon is: Ellen Tigh. <p> She has the connection to Saul. Her story of surviving the Colonial holocaust is dubious at best. She has much to atone for just from New Caprica alone. Saul, upon finding out he himself was a Cylon, wondered, "What about Ellen?" Caprica Six has appeared to Saul as Ellen, and two women share an uncanny resemblance. Ellen often divided those around her, fomenting chaos in the name power and manipulation. <p> If not Ellen, the next best suspect would have to be Kendra Shaw. Her dark times on the Pegasus and the interaction with the Hybrid makes her a prime candidate. It would also explain why she was the focus of Razor, the bridging segment between Cain and Apollo, a cautionary tale of what following orders too closely can lead to. And the Hybrid warned her that the cycle may be ending, but it would soon start over. <p> Who knows? Maybe former presidential aide Billy had some deep dark secrets we never got a chance to learn about. And Roslin thought he'd one day serve as President. Sure would give Dualla a kick in shins since she threw him off in favor of Apollo!
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If it is Earth (it would be a cheap gag if it's not) the first question is: Did the cylons do this? Did they get there first? The next question is : What date is it - is it contemporary, or is this Earth distant past? If so then human's and Cylons together would be our ancient ancestors. That's a nice irony that we may then go on to create AI and go to war with it, since AI are our ancestors.
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We're still in the top ten, we're still in the top ten
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basestar. hybrid. nuff said.
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According to Starbuck, the signal in her viper came from Earth.<p>Gaeta matched up the constellations, but nothing was confirmed regarding the origin of the signal.<p>Once they track down the origin of the signal(which may or may not come from the planet that they landed on), IMHO they will likely find the 3rd party discussed earlier (i.e. the 13th Tribe, Iblis, etc).
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Kara's viper should come in handy in terms of confirming the signal or receiving others if they are out there.
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IMHO Kara's Viper should be of great importance now that they are on Earth.<p>That viper could be the key to the major clues left behind by the 13th Tribe.
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This IS earth. 4.11 opens with the reveal that the thirteenth tribe are all safe and sound -hiding from the nuclear holocaust that decimated the planet in a gigantic lead lined fridge... *sorry for the crappy joke, can't believe no one else made it yet*
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We are on Earth in the far future: "Life here began out there", "out there" being Earth. Mankind finally did it and destroyed itself by creating AI and trying to use them as a slave race to which the AI's eventually rebelled and the extinction began. With only a race of artificial beings left, they eventually decide that through manipulation using surviving gene banks to let humanity, being their original creators, have a second chance and as Earth was ruined and would be a constant reminder of the war that wiped out mankind, they decide to leave the planet and start all over on the planet which will be Kobol. They choose exile for themselves to allow mankind its own evolution; in the beginning they need to guide the human race to keep them from a self-destructive path, so they leave behind a few of the AI's which mankind deems to be gods and they become the Lords of Kobol. Mankind eventually again create AI and make the same mistake with the cylons (created from genetic memory put there by the original artificial intelligence beings). An armistice is agreed on and the Cylons retreat; clones of the original AI descendants, we know them as the flesh and blood Cylons, however without the knowledge of their origins to keep them from interfering with mankind, make contact with the Cylons the Kobold tribes created who they recognize by being AI as well as related, and as they are ignorant of their own origins start the path as we know from season 1, which is essentially a quest to their origins which will reveal their destiny as knowing where you come from is essential to finding out where you have to go. This will be the realization of the cycle of destruction and the fact that what we think of as Cylons and Humans is a distinction that no longer has any meaning and that their destinies are the same. Something like that.
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Lords of Kobol = original 12 types of current 12 types of "Cylon"
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Original 12 models on which the types were based that also recreated mankind on Kobol through genetic manipulation; i.e. creators of Cylons and Kobol tribes are the same AI
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Is Boomer dead? She didn't get much of a send off if she is.
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maybe the fifth cylon acts as a fine tuner for the starbuck's ship/four galactica cylon thing that made no sense? also, how come once starbuck got back from her trip she was back to normal? that was kind of weird. otherwise it has been ruling lately.
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At first glimpse that's what I thought, and with the miracle of frame-advance I was more convinced. Reminded me very much of a shot from "Once Upon A Time in America" with Manhattan framed by the Williamsburg Bridge, but without real defining features it could have easily been the Brooklyn Bridge, or from under the George Washington Bridge from the NJ side. The Post-9/11 thing has always been the show's underpinning, so maybe I'm not crazy!
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