Cool News
Field Report on Hobbiton RE: LORD OF THE RINGS
Harry here, and once again, I have to throw kudos toward the folks at THEONERING.NET for a wonderful report about what is going on in and around the Hobbiton set in New Zealand. We're still months away from actual shooting, but I can tell you to expect to hear casting reports (real ones) beginning in about 3 weeks. In some recent emails between me and some folks over in the wonderful world of NEW LINE, I've heard that they are expecting an update from Peter Jackson some time around the third week of June. This is to detail casting as well as progress on the film. So have patience and go read the full HOBBITON report here at THEONERING.NET and enjoy this pic...
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This looks fantastic. Go for it Peter, and remember, despite what the newds say, 'dark' doesn't automatically equal 'cool'. Stick to your vision, take the visual risks you take in your dreams, and make the movie Episode 1 should have been. PS, how about casting Natalie Portman! She's a real diamond in the rough, and it's only a matter of time before some director draws the greatest performance ever from a living actress out of her. Of course, you can't see it under all that makeup and costume crap in Episode 1 (they could have stuck Chelsea Clinton under there and it wouldn't made zero difference). Your friend, -"Mel" out.
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I'm halfway through Lord of the Rings, and lovin' it.
That picture is absolutely a representation of the images I've seen in my imagination, whilst reading the book.
Digital Backlot MY ARSE! -
Jun 01, 1999 4:10:35 AM CDT
That picture says more about the quality of this film than a mil
by nordling
and verifies the choice of peter Jackson as director. Man, now I'm excited. These movies are going to be godlike.
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I work with Borders Books & Music, and the first movie tie-ins have just been released. I'm sure that many of you have seen them at your own local bookstores already; there's a new 3-in-1 paperback edition of the trilogy, and there's also a "Win a Trip to Hobbiton" contest, which will (of course) win you a trip to the NZ set after filming. I thought I was excited about this film before -- but the thrill I got when I shelved the movie tie-in novels, and now seeing that fantastic photo.. well, I keep telling doubtful friends to have faith in Jackson, and now I can show them this.
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I just have to finally give my two cents worth before the final casting of LotR is announced. Why hasn't anyone suggested Peter O'Toole for Gandalf? My own personal preference would be Sam Waterston (sp?)-- You know, the prosecutor on Law & Order. He would be outstanding.
Lastly, regarding all the rumors about Sean Connery-- has anyone bothered to consider that he might be in LotR, but NOT as Gandalf? I personally think he would make a terrible Gandalf, but would be PERFECT as Saruman! I guess I'll just have to wait and see. -
Jun 01, 1999 7:11:45 AM CDT
I find my self longing for a good Hobbit pipe and seed cakes...
by captainberryman
For those of you who think I can't say anything positive about anything, then gulp this down. I AM SO READY FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. It's like...going to be perfect. Like first time sex for a guy...there's really no way to screw it up, you're just pleased as punch to be there. From what I've read from Peter Jackson on this site, he is making the film I wanna see. If you're listening Peter...FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THINGS HOLY DON'T LISTEN TO KEANU REEVES ABOUT PLAYING STRIDER UNLESS YOU WANT ARAGORN SAYING WHOA THE WHOLE MOVIE. *whew* I know you won't though, right Peter? Umm...Peter? And I thought Elijah Woods was right to play Frodo years ago...but now that he's hit puberty I don't know anymore. I always liked the idea of kids as Hobbits, running around smoking Hobbit pipes and eating seed cakes near hearths (smoking fake movie pipes, don't freak out Tree Huggers). It would make more sense then hiring a bunch of midgets to frolic about trying to convince us they aren't all pissed and bitter. *Just Kidding* So more luck to ya Peter...and it's okay to make Sauron a big flaming eye if you want. That's his manifestation during the Third Age. It's how Tolkein saw him. And I am SO happy Tom Bombadil isn't going into the film. Sweet Jesus, I love J.R.R. Tolkein but I think the one time he experimented with hallucinogenic love drugs was when he came up with Tom Bombadil. End Transmission.
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Look at all that smoke. Just kidding :)
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Big time LOTR fan here, so I have to put in my opinions...sorry about that. Here are my dreams, followed in parenthesis by nightmares for each role.
1) Gimli - Russel Crowe (nightmare: Jim Carrey)
2) Legolas - Guy Pierce - basically the same relationship he had with Crowe in LA Confidential (nightmare: Richard Gere)
3) Gandalf - Ian McKellan, or Egg Shin from Big Trouble in Little China (nightmare: William Shatner)
4) Aragorn - Denzel Washington - he can pull off weatherbeaten ranger (Devil in a Blue Dress) and royalty (Much Ado About Nothing) with equal ease...and don't blow a gasket because he's Black...this is fantasy dammit and race is irrelevant
5) Boromir - Russel Crowe would be ideal again, but he's taken...hmmm, maybe Kevil Spacey (heh heh heh) (Nightmare: Keanu Reeves)
6) The hobbits: NO BIG NAMES. These guys are supposed to be nobodies who step out of the shadows and kick ass. Give me talented no names. But remember: Sam is the most complex and important of the bunch, so don't go casting someone who'll portray him as Frodo's Left Arm (nightmare: Tom Cruise as Frodo and Brad Pitt as Sam)
7) One last request: Michelle Yeoh as Eowyn, the chick from Rohan who takes out the Ringwraith King.
Nasty withering talkback is welcome -
" the purpose of the art of magic is to inspire people todelve deeper into the mysteries of Creation, to initiate their interest in the beyond and to renew their sense of wonder for Life."
-Doug Henning -
Wow, Devil. I am a huge Tolkien fan, have been ever since I was very young and first had the hobbit read to me by my father. I feel that I have a very good feel for the story and it's characters... and your suggestions are just about the worst I have ever heard. I mean come on. Ian McKellen would be great as Saruman, but not Gandalf (he plays evil so well). Denzel Washington as Aragorn? I think the one person in the world that would agree most with me would be Denzel Washington! Russell Crowe is talented, but not really suited to any role I can think of. Maybe Eomer, if anyone. Remember, Aragorn is older and very careworn (should be an actor about 45-50 years old. Keanu Reeves wanting the role is ridiculous. He is not old enough, and most of all, he can't act). I always liked the Sam Neill suggestion. Gimli and the hobbits should be unknowns. Save some money because they won't really be recognizable anyway. Elves should be extremely attractive and willowy people. Someone like Michelle Pfieffer for Galadriel (I know she would never do it, just using her as an example). Actually, Guy Pierce might be able to pull it off as Legolas. I just have to say have faith in Jackson, I am certain he has the story's best interests in mind and he will find the appropriate people for the roles.
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I haven't the Trilogy yet, and when I tried, it was too damn boring at the beginning. This picture, however, makes me want to read it though.
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I just thought I'd point out to those of you that didn't read the article on the linked site that that picture was taken by the site administrators, and really has nothing to do with the movie other than the fact that it was taken in the general area that the movie will be filmed. So, I don't think you should make any judgements based on that picture. It's a beautiful picture, but it doesn't really say much about the director or anything.
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To Peter Jackson:
Please, please if you can possibly get him to do it, the (IMHO) only person who can play Gandalf is Peter O'Toole. -
I think Ian Richardson who played Francis Urqurt would be a damn good Gandalf.Or Saruman for that matter.Hes 65 and Scottish.In fact if Connery played Gandalf he would be the perfect foil as Saruman,might even steal the show from under him.
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Thanks LINDZEE for the info on Colm Meaney, I will check him out. I've noticed a number of people have been read the Hobbit by their parents. I myself have read the Hobbit and the LOTR's to my daughter as a bedtime story( it took a year)she is now ten and so excited about the movie. I highly recomend this to parents and future parents. The hours of pleasure spent with my child, watching her wheels turn with " Riddles in the dark" have been priceless. The basic understand of ethic for children comes across quite clear.
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Ah, brings back memories of tramping around the New Zealand bush when I used to live there. It's truly a gorgeous country if you haven't been there, and some of the scenery (especially on the South Island) is simply jawdropping. Don't let "Xena" or "Hercules" form your picture of what NZ can offer. There's no question that Jackson has the perfect place to film this trilogy, even if it weren't so cheap to film there. In any case, things continue to look promising for this movie, which so many Tolkien fans anticipate with trepidation and hope. I'll feel better, however, once basic casting is finished, and most of the leads cast are relative unknowns with a few bigger names for the supporting roles - and that none of them is named Keanu Reeves.
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As much as I hate to be a naysayer, NOTHING in Peter Jackson's filmography offers any indication that he can pull off an epic of this scope. He's a wonderfully quirky filmmaker with flashes of brilliance, but none of his work has ever focused on anything as complex as LOTR. Besides, let's not forget that this man's last film was The Frighteners, which only succeeded as a demo reel for Weta Digital. If that movie is any indication of his current screenwriting abilities, these movies will REALLY disappoint. Sure, that's a pretty picture above, but it certainly wasn't a shot from Fellowship of the Ring. I sure hope I'm wrong, but I can't forget that it was New Line who was also responsible for Spawn -- remember how much we were all looking forward to THAT one?
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I enjoyed the Frighteners quite a bit actually (enough to own it on DVD). It was sort of a Beetlejuice type film, with slightly more emphasis on the "horror" elements than the comedy elements. Between that and Heavenly Creatures, that gives me enough faith that he has a good chance he'll do right by the books. Of course, he could screw it up, but so could anyone. My personal directorial choice would have been Peter Weir (joined by his cinematographer - John Searle), but Peter Jackson is not far behind.
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Thanks for the talkback, Achilles. I totally agree with you about a few things: the hobbits should be unknowns, and I think you're right that Gimli should probably be an unknown also. I am curious as to why you hate Denzel as Aragorn though. Your point that Aragorn should be 45-50 is true...Denzel in fact is over 40 (though I think under 45). Also, he should indeed be able to play careworn (see Denzel in Devil in a Blue Dress, Courage Under Fire, He Got Game, and Fallen). In addition to your points, he should be able to carry a sense of military training and background. Denzel has excelled in roles as a soldier. The actor should be able to convey regality (again I reference Much Ado About Nothing), and hidden dignity (Glory, Courage Under Fire, etc). About everything facet you could see in the CHARACTER of Aragorn, Denzel Washington has played convincingly. I know that we all grew up reading the books and of course imagining Aragorn as a white man. I did...in fact, back when I was an avid reader and re-reader in the 80s, I pictured Harrison Ford at the time in the role. But I gotta say, of today's actors, it just happens (in my opinion) that an African American actor one guy who I think can carry the role admirably. If you have specific reasons why Denzel could not carry off Aragorn, other than his race or your (and probably most everyone's) preconceived mental picture of what Aragorn should LOOK like, please let me know. I appreciate your response to my modest proposals. By the way, you're right, Russel Crowe is probably lousy for Gimli or any role in the flick. Dave
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Those of you saying that this picture doesn't really have anything to do with the movie are right and wrong. We know that it was taken in the area where Hobbiton is being built so this could very well show a portion of the Shire, who knows maybe even Bag End itself. I couldn't help but wonder if the dirt road we can see that has been cut through the hills in several of the pictures is the road that goes by Bag End and all the way to Rivendell and beyond the Misty Mountains. But as for the pictures indicating that the movie is going to be great, well, they don't really. What they do however is show us that JAckson has picked what I think most people will agree to be the perfect physical location for the Shire. I hope the movie is going to be as great as the book and personally I think it will be. Heavenly Creatures was all I needed to see to determine that he was a brilliant director and between his comments about the movie and the visuals we've seen, I have every confidence that we are in for something special come Christmas 2000. Christopher Plummer for Gandalf.
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These pics are great..looks very much like I imagine middle earth should be. One question, everyone is speculating about Gandalf and Aragorn, but what about dear old Bilbo?
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...it's my turn. Feel free to flame away, but these are the people I feel would do the characters justice--REGARDLESS OF RACE.-----
I agree that the Hobbits and the Dwarves should be no-names (or at least small names).-----
Strider: Well, we need older. We need worn, but still strong. We need weathered. My vote? Timothy Dalton.-----
Gandalf: As with the arguments regarding Denzel above, there is no reason to assume that these characters have to be white. Absolute best choice for Gandalf, IMHO, is Morgan Freeman.-----
Boromir: Can't say it matters all THAT much.-----
Galadriel: Here's where I get REALLY stomped. But I vote Mira Furlen (Delen on Babylon 5, for those who don't know).-----
Saruman: Patrick Stewart.-----
There are a few others, but I think this'll do for now. -
Thank you thank you thank you. BTW, Morgan Freeman as Gandalf is a fucking AWESOME idea! Wish I'd thought of it. Now to get really tacky, and because I don't feel like studying right now: the ultimate ugly idea. The cast of Star Trek, The Next Generation should play this movie. Patrick Steward as Gandalf (actually, not too bad, but not great). Jonathan Frakes as Aragorn. Colm Meaney as Boromir. Marina Sirtis as Galadriel. Brent Spiner as Legolas. Geordi as Gimli. And for Frodo...Wil Wheaton. Oh yeah, and because he IS Star Trek...Shatner as Elrond. TAKE THE PAIN!!!!!
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i was just wondering. will the hobbits be CGI? How else could it work
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Hey, does anybody know who might be writing the score for this picture? There is a guy from Denmark who wrote a fantastic symphony based on the Lord of the Rings for symphonic band. His name is Johan de Meij. This symphony (should be available at your local music store or on amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003VDN/o/qid=928274852/sr=2-2/002-9302589-6744041). The music is very much in the vein of John William's movie music, with distinct, Wagnerian leitmotives for the characters. I was lucky enough to perform this piece several years ago, and I feel that having de Meij write the music for this movie would be a fantastic idea, indeed.
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In response to Jedi Quinner: PJ has stated that the hobbits will
be depicted by normal-sized actors
shrunken to hobbit-size by computer techniques. Regarding
Tom Bombadil and the Fellowship,
I have reluctantly come to agree that ol' Tom won't make the final cut of a movie that must
not run much over two hours.
Others in this space, however,
have suggested that Bombadil's part (and others that might not
make the final cut) could be
included in a deluxe DVD version
for home consumption. If PJ can do this, it would soften the blow
of TB's exclusion from the theatrical release. P.S: If so,
I'd surely like to see Robin
Williams or Tom Baker as Tom
Bombadillo! -
I think that Cate Banchett would be a fabulous Eowyn. Just watch her in 'Elizabeth'. She has the potential for just the right air. She also has a very versatile face, one that would make her harder to recognize when she disguises herself as a Rider.
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I don't know which one of you said it first, but the idea of Denzel Washington or Morgan Freeman in any of these movies is just GREAT thinking. There isn't any specific reference to skin color in the books, so why shouldn't we consider someone like Morgan Freeman for Gandalf? It's such an intriguing idea and it would broaden the appeal of these movies to an even wider audience.
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I've always pictured Aragorn as a somber and scarred American actor, battle-eary and rough. Tom Berrenger would fit nicely.
How could Keannu Reeves possibly think that he would be appropriate for this role? He looks more like an elf, but if it was me casting, I'd rather have him in the audience than onscreen. -
First I'll say that I can't see Keanu as Strider. I agree that he should be older. Sam Neill I think would be excellent.
But anyway What I wanted to say was that Keanu has been good. He was good in Much Ado About Nothing (a minor role it was, but he did quite well with it). He's not a hopeless actor. My only point.
KaTT -
I saw on this teenwebsite that Elijah is going to be Frodo. Not sure how reliable these teensites are but you might want to check it out yourself. He's a pretty good actor but they would have to digitally manipulate him because he's much taller than a typical hobbit. Check it out at http://www.ymshomepage.com/today/wood.html
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Kris Kristofferson as Gandalf. Just get him to lose the West Texas accent, and he'd be perfect.
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Whatever happened to that rumor that Ain't-It-Cool-News had a while back about Michael J. Fox being casted in LOTR. I think that would be good casting. I know a lot of you were putting down The Frighteners but I thought that it was actually pretty good. If you haven't seen it you should give it a chance, and if you have, maybe you should give it another chance. Michael J. Fox gave a very edgy, against type performance and he could be good working with Peter again. I hope there was some truth to the rumor but you haven't mentioned it or followed it up. Can anbody tell me anything about it?
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No problem, Oskar. Hey, someone mentioned Mira Furlan...as long as we're talking about Babylon 5, what about Bruce Boxlenienter? (However you spell it.) Personally, I can see him as Boromir. And the woman who played Lyta Alexander looks like an elf to me. I want to know who they're gonna cast as SHADOWFAX!!! And Bill the Pony, too. ("Do you think you killed him with that apple, Sam?")
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This is one of those rare films that needs no stars. AT ALL.
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Personally, I think Aragorn should be played by an American Indian. For some reason, I have always thought of him as looking physically like an an Apache or Sioux warrior. Mind you, I don't know actors who could perform the part, just what I think he should look like.
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But we'd need to cast Q. The LOTR via Trek would be empty without Q. Perhaps John DeLancie could play Saruman?
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...but was TV's "Father Ted" based on Braindead's Father McGruder?
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Oh, c'mon. John DeLancie is obviously Pippin! ;-)
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Liked the idea of Morgan Freeman as Gandalf. Can't see Denzel Washington as Strider, Doesn't have that weathered look like say ......Scott Glen.
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I am confident this movie won't suck like the new star wars movie. Dead/alive, Meet the Feebles and the Frightners were great! Can't wait for the Lord of the Rings!
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Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington! Morgan yes. Denzel, I don't know. Just can't think of a role for him. As for the Timothy Dalton suggestion--I always saw him as Faramir. But back to the cross racial casting. I think it's a good idea, but in fairness to Tolkien, he does describe the Dunedain as Anglo types. If you read Unfinished Tales or the Silmarillian he has descriptions of the people in the three tribes of man that went west and eventually settle Numenor. Aragorn is their descendant. Remember that he thought of LOTR as a mythology for England. I've got no problem casting non-whites in these roles. I think it would broaden the appeal of the movies. While there is a solid Tolkien fan base, the movie will need to pull in non-tolkienites to be a huge success. I mean how many Star Trek movies hit 100 million at the box office.
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Jun 01, 1999 10:48:51 PM CDT
Sorry about this but i'm just trying to get a clear picture her
by morpheus
People seems to be under the impression that Boromir and co. are archeetypal blondes with blue eyes!They actually have 'raven locks' and gray eyes.Tolkien has compared theem to the Egyptians, so they must be slightly taller than the average European and darker in comparison.This is in keeping with the fact that Numenorians are based on the Kymrians that some say are from the same Mediterranean(?) stock as the Etruscans that settled down in Italy from across the sea ;bringing with them very advanced culture.The culture seems to be an amalgam of past empirees.The multi tiered Minas Tirith seems Babylonian and the 'pony express' persian.Wire netting worn in the hair by Arwen Grecian. blondes woulda beeen MOre at home with the Rohirrim.If LOtr is set in an era parallel to Etruscan(prior to Rome,which is actually a separate culture), then the Variags would be (instead of tthe Huns),the Thracians and ilk of the Steppes(fields of Araw)which are totally wy out cool descendants of the Huns.The Carthage would sttill be around beig of the Phoenician empire.The Corsairs would then be the Phoenician navy and maybe some Greeks.Easterners are still the Goths.Cecil DeMIlle shulda done this trilo !!SFX courtyesy of a certain Harryhausen!!Always thought of the Nazgul as a pteranodon(check out the latest palaeontological ideas on the pteranodon,looks like a tauntaun with wings!).The mumakil ,perhaps, mammoths? Woses are perhaps remnants of the Picts?
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No offense to any of the posters above, but if Aragorn is to be African-American, then all of the Gondorians must also be African-Americans. They are all from the same basic stock. And Tolkien makes it clear that they are Anglo. As for being dark-skinned -- like Egyptians -- I'm afraid not. Tolkien describes the Numenoreans as having a cultural affinity for builing large impressive edifices and tombs like the Egyptians, not that they looked like Egyptians. In fact, the Numenoreans, as Tolkien describes them, most closely resembled the majority of elves -- ehich is to say -- black-haired, grey-eyed, and "pale-skinned." Just thought that needed clearing up. Namarie
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I'm going to agree with Vanyar that we shouldn't cast African-Americans in any of the "major" roles simply because it doesn't fit in with the writings. Unfortunately, Professor Tolkien used minorities in his stories to depict the forces that were swayed by Sauron (haradrim,easterlings). I think Morgan Freeman could definately pull off a "Gandalf" role, BUT he would not look the part. As an african american whose grown up loving the works of Tolkien I've always felt it was a shame that there were no positive minority roles within his works. But alas, that was a different age. I like to believe that there were a few souls from Southern Harad that DID NOT fall sway to the lies of Sauron and his generals.
I still anxiously await this film after the dissappointment of the Phantom Menace. -
Thanks for the support, Beosiman. You're absolutely right, it's not a question of acting ability -- both Freeman and Washington are wonderful actors. They simply don't fit in to Tolkien's vision. Yes, it was a different era. I, also, wish that there had been some more positive minority roles in LOTR. And just to ease your mind, Tolkien does mention in some of his letters that not all the Haradrim and Easterlings fell under Sauron's sway. For that matter, in the Silmarillion, not all the easterlngs sided with Morgoth. Just wish Tolkien had been able to present some "good guy" forces from the south and east, but his work was long enough as it was. Oh well, can't have everything. PJ, just do the film as faithful to the book as possible and all will be well. Namarie.
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As a casual fan of LOTR I don't really have a preference for casting the major roles (other than it be done well) However, I read an earlier post that said the smaller peoples (Hobbits and such) would be played by regular actors and sized down through the computer. To me, this is a bigger issue than who is playing the major human size roles. Most of the movies that I have seen that employ this concept end up looking very "fakey" Also, it seems to me that the size proportion (length of arms, leg length, torso size etc..) of a 5-6 foot tall human are all wrong for that of a hobbit or dwarf. I picture hobbits and dwarves as short stocky peoples. CGI rendering might work but it isnt "organic" enough. I still think using diminutive actors is the best solution. I would hate to waste fine casting choices for the Major roles and surround them with cheesy effects or poor CGI.
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How come nobody has mentioned Anthony Hopkins as Saruman. Did you see silence of the lambs. His voice is mesmerising, just like Saruman's is supposed to be. As for black gandalf and black aragorn, no. I'm not racist but we need to stick to the vision of the books. Aragorn was a descendant of the Numenorean, who were descendants of the Elves, who were pictured as fair skinned whites. I'm just saying we need to stay on the vision of the books. As for a black Gandalf, think about how it would look. Every painting or mental picture i've seen or thought of, Gandalf is white. And i think that we need to stick to unknown actors. If i see a big name actor i think it'll ruin it for me.
- Mike -
First off, some casting:
Saruman: Anthony Hopkins sounds like a kickass casting choice for this role.
Gandalf: Sean Connery would of course be a dream come true, but chances of him doing it appear to be less and less...
Radagast: Morgan Freeman, I don't know, maybe it's because he's "the Brown" but I always thought Morgan would make a great Radagast.
Denethor: Who else would play a kickass disturbed Numerean lord other than Patrick Stewart? He doesn't have the beard of Gandalf and I've got a diffferent suggestion for Saruman, so why not cast him as the insane lord of Minas Tirith?
Gollum: How come no one else has any ideas for this guy? He's a pivotal character! I suggest a very "make-up"ed character actor. I know it sounds hideous, but maybe Robin Williams or something like that? I don't know, maybe someone else has an idea.
Aragorn/Strider-As much as I'd love to see him be black, just for the pure shock appeal, I think that would distract from Tolkein's image. Honestly, I think Mel Gibson could make a damned good Aragorn, but I'm sure I'm in the minority on that one.
Wormtongue: Maybe Martin Short.
Anyways, about them hobbits, I like the idea of having unknowns but I think the technical wizards should do more than just shrink the actors, they should distort them so as to make them look a bit wider.
Also, I suggest using a good deal of African American's within the movie, because I doubt J.R.R. would mind that much.
I'm looking forward to this movie more than anything elsem, more than Episode Two even. The idea of seeing the Battle of Pellenor Fields makes me positively giddy. And I hope he throws in the Oliphaunts just for good measure. Also, does anyone know if they're going to keep the fall of Isengard in the movie? I'd appreciate any info.
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7 seasons come and pass
Lord o' the Rings is here at last!
With New Zealand landscapes,
And Elijah Wood
It looks really cool and
The ratings are good.
****
A hush lies over a theater crowd,
Gandalf's fire works are THX loud.
They adore the hair on the cute hobbit-feet.
But this movie is more than just happy and sweet.
With wights and wraiths and Gollums and such,
This story has more than just adult touch.
An huge applause readies as the ending draws near....
No one can wait for the next half a year.
~Tybie -
Before I say anything else, I am not an expert on "The Lord of the Rings"; I am just an avid fan.
Over the last few months (practically since news of the forthcoming movies was announced), I have been a little astonished and quite alarmed by the appearance of racism worries concerning the main "good-guy" characters in Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings". It has often been said that Tolkien was creating a "mythology" for Britain, writing in a time that was less culturally diverse than Britain is today. The tale he began to tell rapidly expanded beyond what could conceivably be called the "Shores of Britain" (IE the Shire and surrounding country). Therefore more cultures came into the tale.
It has to be said that Tolkien's treatment of other cultures the world over is vastly more fair and without great prejudice, if he is compared to other British authors and literary figures of that time. There are no unnecessary stereotypes, because this is a world he has created, and though it is true to say that the people who side with the evil of Sauron are mostly "dark-skinned" southerners and easterners, it can't be said that he has labelled those people with the same "Evil Brush". He explains why these people join forces with Sauron: because they have never encountered him before, and have no idea about his lies and treachery. Even the great men of westernesse fell for it once before, if you remember . . ?
Please don't feel the need to place culturally incorrect actors in the roles of characters that are described (in some detail), when it is unnecessary. It may make people feel better but it will detract from the story. Could you imagine having white actors instead of Oprah Winfrey or Whoopie Goldberg in "The Colour Purple"? I know the two stories can't be compared, but it is the same principle. There are black characters in "The Lord of the Rings" (one example is the Prince who fights for Minas Tirith). The rest are Greko-Italian in appearance, except of course for the Aerian (sp?) Elves.
I call to all fans of Tolkien: have faith in Peter Jackson because he is a talent. And have faith that the tale we care so much about will show itself for what it is: a fantasy / war / romance / action / comedy and all other labels that can be imagined. It is wonderful, stop trying to make it political.
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How much Tolkien is there on stage? Here in Finland, we had
8 hours long LOTR-play running two summers in an outdoors-stage of
Suomenlinna.
Hobbit was running in one smaller town theatre, Kuopio, a couple of winters ago, and was sold out troughout. They made it into a musical.
They also made a TV-series of Hobbit in Finnish TV2, which was 9*~30 min.
All three were done with rather small a budget (at least when comparing movie making for global audiences). Anyhow, plays were great. Even if hobbits were played by full-grown men, and scenes were "made out of cardboard" ;)
I am not worried about them spoiling Tolkien's work.
And that "mandatory" P.S. :
Vesa Vierikko makes a great Gandalf, and Kari Vaananen was awesome Aragorn/Gollum (Yes. He played 'em both - they aren't at the stage at the same time) ;)
I'm afraid, P.J. hasn't seen them... -
morGoth, the numenoreans were given elvish qualities, tall, long lived, so i'm guessing they are also "white." They were much different from the Edain, even though they descended from them. The edain were shorter and stockier, the numenoreans were tall.
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Just thought I might amend that the composer Johann de Meij is Dutch, not Danish, and lives in Amsterdam. His "Lord of the Rings Symphony" won international acclaim and honors for composition, and he is one of the brightest and most promising young composers of our time. It's well worth a listen. I have a hard time reading LOTR without hearing his themes and leitmotifs, especially Gandalf's theme. "Lothlorien" is simply stunning. On a different note... I love the idea of Martin Short as Wormtongue, if he can do it seriously rather than using that smirky way of his. Is Christopher Plummer still alive (don't laugh at my ignorance!)? Has anybody considered him as Denethor? Be well, all...
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Jar Jar makes an appearance. "Meesa likes Bilbos Bobbenssa"
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I'mnot calling Tolkien a racist.It is only natural for the Harads that lived in the south 'where the stars are different'(southern hemisphere?) to get massive sunburns.Maybe we should consider the fact that Numenorians are not 'white'(I don't mean black either) by virtue of bloodline and comparisons to the myths that Tolkien based upon.Arwen with her white arms doesn't count.Seems to me being tall in Tolkien's world doesn't equate with skin tone;more with power.Which is why i think that Morgoth who appeared like a tall tower can still step on this guy's neck(whatsisname?)in the Silmarillion.
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I'm glad some people are picking up on the Timothy Dalton Aragorn thing and Colm Meany Sam thing.
I'm a little disturbed about all this nonsense about Reeves or Bruce Willis as Aragorn, someone also suggested Mel Gibson as Eomer and bloody Steven Segal as Boromir (How do people read these books??)
I can just imagine it Segal saying "Give me the ring muthaf****r!" as he draws a browning broadsword from his shoulder holster.
"F**K you!" shouts Frodo (Jackie Chan) leaping clear with and drawing his FN short sword, and neatly removing the Gondor mans head with one back slash.
Aragorn son of Arathorn (Robert De Niro) runs into the clearing "Baggins you dumb F**k what the F**k do you F**king think you're F**king doin' you F**king mook!"
No! NO! NO! That is not the Lord of the Rings. That is a action film. Hollywood all to often sacrifice a good story with special effects, big names, and big explosions. The Lord of the Rings is a rare gem! It DOES Need special effects of the highest standard and actors likewise.
Much as I like him Connery plays Connery all the time as does Reeves, Willis and all the rest.
Without sounding too much of a luvvie, for this kind of film you need actors (Someone who can play various roles) Thespians even. There are plenty of decent actors around the globe. Let's see them up on the big screen instead of 10 million a movie stars, who are so stuck up their own arses these day they seem to be out of touch with reality.
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okay quick thougts. I just cant get the vision of gandalf from the hobbit cartoon out of my head. i really liked that version, or that voice at least. i think that the rest of the movie should be no name actors. I have a problem with having colm meanie playing a hobbit cause i would just be seeing miles obrien in a holodeck. as for elijah wood, i think he looks like a hobbit so hes all right, and ive only seen him in one movie when he was a kid. The lead actor in "rushmore" really looks like a hobbit to me, i think he would make a good hobbit. The one thing i really would like to see is the same guy who did the voice of gollum in the hobbit cartoon come back to do the voice over for the cg version of gollum again. he was fantastic!
-dooky -
Good point, morGoth. But can we all get past this issue and look forward to the movies? That was my only reason for posting the previous message in the first place.
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First of all, I'd like to do a big "hat's off" to MorGoth for his indepth response regarding the edain & dunedain. It was right on the mark. The only point of clarification is Imrahil's ancestry. His princedom, Dol Amroth, (Hill of Amroth) was indeed an Eldar port, where the elven prince, Amroth, dwelt. He drowned at sea (long story). Anyway, JRRT makes it clear in LOTR that Imrahil bore the physical signs of his Numenorean AND Elven descent. Although it is not explained in the text (it's in a family tree somewhere) Imrahil does indeed have elf bllod in his lineage. Namarie.
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I just saw Braveheart(again) today and it got me thinking about something.
How well should this movie be made? Personally I think Peter "REALLY" needs to view this as an
opportunity to make a movie that could win an oscar for BEST PICTURE. Think about the locale, the actors, the script, the soundtrack and the hundreds of other things and say to himself when filming, "Is this the best way I, or anyone else could do this","Will this be viewed as a great piece of work?"
I want a fantasy film to finally have the depth and substance to garner an academy award nomination for best picture. The title "fantasy" shouldn't mean shallow, kiddie, sci-tech is the only thing I have to sell this film type of endeavors of the past.(And present :TPMenace). I want this film to surpass the likes of Braveheart in EVERY way. Emotionally driven, passion and depth with CGI to "ENHANCE" the film, not drive it.
Just my opinion. -
Fortunately, LOTR already has the depth needed for a good film (and probably too much, for that matter). We can just hope that PJ will transfer as much a he can and sees fit to, onto the big screen. I would just like to ask whether anyone else thought that DRAGONHEART was a good attempt at a fantasy flick, or is it just me? There was some fine acting in that movie, even though it might not have won any awards. Probably fantasy is doomed to win nothing simply because of its genre. Thoughts please, folks.
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But I still cannot picture how theses races would be pictured in the movie.The designers must have some actual historical basis for their designs.Even an all out fantasy like Conan has it.Dragonheart was amovie that coulda been .Too much emphasis on the drgon and not much else on the world.I'll tell oyu whats my favourite fantasy movie;JFK.I think it was a great idea for peter Jackson to do it as a historical film(this would lend the movie more credence among mainstrem viewers).My favourite OutNout fantasy movies all seems to be from the harryhausen-O'brien era......
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yup,i can't understand this SWTPM bashing myself!Jar Jar is not so irritating as made out.Whats so card board about the CGI?In fact; its totally blew me away!Nothing new here but I've certainly never seen CGI used in such a wide and artistic scale.Wide as in the number of CGI shots and artistic as in some of the beautifully detailed CGI critters and ships are shown not for effect but as a momentary and naturally transient part of the background.NOTE THE SMALL inclusion of a tiny shiny dot of a spaceship travelling across the sky with the speaking head of Qui Gon at the foreground on Tatooine!Another thing about the accents of the aliens being undigestible;the Nemodienes sounds pretty much like Dexter in Dexter's Laboratory to me.Jar Jar sounds like a dislexic Roger Rabbit.I just love the adorable eccentric alien actors,even the slave master Watto!The actors proved to be rather well,according to the limits of the scripts.Jake lloyd was a good enough actor contrary to rumours.Just enough emotional without overplaying it;There certainly wasn't anything sweet about his and the queen's relationship.Plotwise;We have the continuity of ESB,the Gung ho and heart of SW,the large scale(even larger?) of ROTJ,certainly.But what is more is that George Lucas has matured in his concept of the world of SW and as afilm makerto express that onscreen;'course thre's his moolah too.I certainly has the feeling that i was in another w orld and that is different from admiring the SFX and stuff.\if there is anything I agree with the detractors.,it is that there is too less screen tim for Dart Maul.That guy kicks ass!!I just love the way he deviously led the Jedis in the way cool finale duel thru the door to the other room where there are shields to separate the two Jedis!!The Nazgul has better beat him in the coolness quotient!
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Before the casting is complete and its all set in stone I have to throw out one suggestion if only to be able to say
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Some wonderful person just told me about the upcoming LOTR movie. Sent me the URL for the movie site. Gods, I've been waiting for this for years. have read LOTR over 2 doz times. Going to read it again!!!!!!! Didn't care for the other movie years ago or the cartoon. With the special effects available now, this should be awesome. The pictures I have seen are spectacular!!!!!!!
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If I am not mistaken, the Silmarillion sez that Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, etc, were spirits that took solid form to serve as guides and guardians for the inhabitants of Middle Earth. That being so, they could pretty much look like anything they wished. Black, white, green, etc. Correct me if I am wrong. Weren't they called the Maiar?
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