Cool News
The Teaser Sheet For W (Dub-Ya) Is On These Internets!!
Merrick here...
IonCinema has posted what is said to be the Cannes teaser sheet for Oliver Stone's W.
There's a bit more to it than the cropped image that appears below; gives you a really good sense of how the film will approach its subject matter (as if there was ever much doubt).
Click on the infamous letter to check it out!
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just odd.
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looks silly
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behind .....well he's actually the worst
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Stone doing a comedy is going to be a wild ride. Thank FUCK he didn't try to make this serious.
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I didn't see that one.
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Jun 05, 2008 9:49:44 AM CDT
Beating a dead horse doesn't even begin to describe this movie
by vini77
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The Republican version of Jimmy Carter, only without any redeeming out-of-office capabilities.
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I want to see more Hulk reviews
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lulz
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on the poster? if so, thats just embarrassing.
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one can only dream!
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If not then this is truly original!
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that I doubt they're going to want to buy a ticket to see him on the big screen.
Sorry, Lionsgate. -
and either do we"
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I'm not a fan of Bush as a President but we haven't seen the last of the Bush family in U.S. Politics. Watch this match-up happen or at least be considered.
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Bush was/is incompetent and stupid but Nixon was evil. And Evil is worse than stupid.
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Nuff said.
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I'm in no way defending Bush or his actions but the poster certainly gives the impression they're going with the "lolz bush is stupid luk at the funy things he sed haha". Seriusly i'm fed up of that kinda stuff from students with no grasp of politics, i don't want to see a film of it.
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Oh, wait...
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Everyone misspeaks, but this man takes it to a Brave New World.
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actually, Hillary is the closest thing to Nixon I've seen.
and btw, the economy sucks and is getting worse...if you don't happen to already be rich, that is. -
would make a movie about how much Bush sucked right after everyone just fucking lived through 8 straight years of the shit. And I love that faggot Stone and the studio wouldn't have dared make this movie when the man was popular. Fuck yourselves.
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Really simple. Classical. Could do without the "improbable president" line though. So, from the looks of it, this is officially an all out comedy, right?
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Jun 05, 2008 10:07:45 AM CDT
Tell me it's not true. There are troglodytes that actually still
by splinter
Are you fucking serious? After 8 years and the unmitigated disaster of this presidency, there are still shitwits who think...what....he's doing a good job? Are you fucking kidding me?!!
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... the latest in the 'Movie' series. Scary Movie, Date Movie, Epic Movie, Superhero Movie, and now Political Movie. I love it when Oliver Stone makes these kind of pictures, but this doesn't half sound like Leslie Nielson should be in it.
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You've read the script?
Can you tell us if the pages that were leaked a while back are in the final version?
Hope not, since that was the most ham-fisted, left-wing-blog-inspired dialogue imaginable. -
...Bush is Evil, Stupid AND incompetent. But I can't complain, he gave me atorcity videos from the middle east and made your U.S dollar so fucking weak that its cheaper to buy quality DVD's from American suppliers now than it is from local suppliers, who take months longer to get the shit out anyway. So thanks Bush.
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Jun 05, 2008 10:14:40 AM CDT
"shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen who had his hand cut of
by simplesandwiches
What's so bad about that? If it was only one hand, Bush could be shaking the other. Do they have prosthetics over there yet? I'm sure there were worse quotes that could have been...um...quoted.
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i wonder if they will change that poster in the UK cos the W is very similar to a logo for a bookstore called waterstones (wankerstones to those in the know). i think this movie might be interesting...wonder what the daily show will make of it...
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TOO LAAAAAAATE
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This is like the 10th write up for a movie that has just begn production and will probably make less that 10 million at the box office. WTF??!! The one thing that strikes me about the movie is the casting. Every actor is 20 years younger than the character they are playing. Makeup to make an actor look older ALWAYS looks fake. It's too distracting. Also, Toby Jones as Rumsfeld?? Is Rumsfeld 5'3" tall and I never realized it? Hollywood is showing their huge liberal bias by financing a movie that they know will be a financial bomb just because it is Bush.
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this movie is the equivalent to beating a dead horse right into the ground, the people who actually still fucking defend the guy are shit house insane.
I am looking forward to this movie in a cathartic, "gee, it really was as bad as I remembered it," kind of way. -
Yeah, I kinda get that but I immediately thought he was recognizing someone who had maybe stood-up to Hussein's regime...something along those lines. I picture Bush at the podium with this guy standing proud in the background. I'm not familiar with what the situation was at the time of the quote so maybe I'm giving Bush too much credibility.
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I'd rather see that.
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Damn You Michael Bay
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How in God's name did he get a second term, never mind a first.
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James Brolin and W are the same height! And George Bush and Cromwell are like only 2 inches off. On IMDB it says Randy Quaid is going to be Cheney? Didn't AICN report Richard Dryfuss to be playing that part?
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The man really is an eedjit
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that this man runs the most powerful country on the planet.
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who was worse? or that much of a shit-case!
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It's a spoonerism (sort of). Almost everything that comes out of Bush's mouth is mangled and amusing. I'm amazed that people are trying to defend his inability to speak. Argue on policy all you like but some of the howlers that he has come out with are incredible.
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Our country is a joke version of a cyberpunk book. We will feed off the tit of ignorance as long as people like you keep those rose colored glasses on. The man did blow all the time, then wrecked two oil companys then fucked up the country somthin' good. We're doomed. Thanks asshole.
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he doesn't rule china
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its like a terminator. it never stops. Once again I need to remind the idiots here in this TB that Clinton was impeached and lost his privilege to practice law because he lied under sworn oath.
You and me? We would have gone ot prison for that. -
I'm watching it in two minutes, so DGDB thanks for the acknowledgments, sir. And Fatso, keep up that hate speech.
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the way so many of you defend politicians, that wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, is staggering. When someone verbally attacks your leader you act like they just knocked out your mother. For fucks sake, do as the British do, treat all politicians with deep suspicion and varying degrees of hatred, that's all they deserve. (Yes I know I'm making sweeping generalizations)
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Is that while at my job I am made to feel guilty about showing up late. Or not getting in some paper work that I have to get from someone else in on time. Like I am some asshole ruining the country by being lazy. While who makes W. feel bad? I mean you could say the media and America, but the man is so protected and sheltered from all that I wonder if he even knows that there is a movie being made about him? Just like the shit thats happened over the past 8 years makes me almost numb from ever feeling like I've REALLY SCREWED up. Plus he's never once taken any blame or apologized for any of it.
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Forget about English women, London is being flooded by Eastern European stunners, and they're easy too.
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Conan says Battle Royale now. No more talk. No more talk. Fight. Fight. Fight.Now, would you please pass the JELLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!
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Jimmy Carter still has this category wrapped up for me, at least in the past 50 years. When you compare the domestic and foreign policy disasters, I still think he wins. Maybe down the road, if history doesn't judge Bush any better, then maybe it will be a contest. Let's not forget the term "misery index" was coined to describe how bad things were domestically under Carter.
As far as the movie goes, I doubt anyone will want to see this. Bush has become a polarizing figure like Bill or Hillary. People tend to have strong opinions set in stone re: all of them and very little is going to change their minds, pro or con. -
...that Pandas won't fuck? Seriously. I've read about some of the more weird attempts to get them to do so but they won't fuck. Between pandas watching video footage of other pandas fucking (not kidding) and chemical attempts (think viagra for pandas), nothing has gotten these pandas interesting in fucking each other and making baby pandas. Hence, pandas won't be around much longer except for some reason they're also samurai martial artists and warriors. Which is not really reflected in reality if you look. I've been to the zoo and watched Discovery channel and I've never seen a panda wear a hat much less wield a katana sword. A tiger at least could tear off your head with one swipe of its claws but I've never seen tigers given that respect. A shark could bite your legs and ass off at the same time and all they get is a 2 note musical score? Meanwhile, non-fucking, near-extinct pandas are samurai?Not attacking pandas or panda enthusiasts here and I actually feel sorry for them in that they don't seem to like to fuck each other but still....samurai?
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Jun 05, 2008 11:18:43 AM CDT
"I hear theres rumors on the internets that we're going to have
by greentealite
Amazing
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Jun 05, 2008 11:22:37 AM CDT
As this is becoming more of a comedy, I'm becoming more interest
by rbatty024
As a drama this is a failure. As a dark comedy where American's can vent their frustration about an ignorant and incompetent President, I think it might have a life. Political films normally don't do well at the box office and this might not be an exception. We'll see.
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Glug glug glug.
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Satire is the right way to go.
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Jun 05, 2008 11:32:38 AM CDT
The anarchst in me loves this movie, the prgmatist....
by industrykiller!
not so much. I love the idea that George W. bush has become such a joke that it just doesn't phase anyone that we can openly mock him in such a public manner. And mocking him feels good, very good. BUT I have no idea how hte fuck he thinks he is helping democrats or Barack Obamas message of hope by releasing such a politically devisive film RIGHT before the election. I think MOST democrats and republicans are more or less on equal ground in the disappointment over George Bush's presidency, which much factual evidence points toward being the worst in our country's history. The only thing this can do is hurt that bond. moreover, Obamas message is one of hope and moving forward. Can't he wait until after the election to release something that looks immediately backward? Not to mention that a Bush film played for comedy is completely and utterly retarded.
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its true.
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Not counting ones who died in their first term. Taylor, Harrison, Garfield, etc.
Jimmy Carter
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses Grant
Warren Harding
James Buchanan
Calvin Coolidge
In no particular order.
But...given how well Nixon and LBJ are treated for the Vietnam war here a few years later, I have to think he'll be gunning for only being better than Johnson and Harding. -
(if i had a nickel for every time i said that)so i'll ask you this: why do you want to see this? what makes this project look any more than an extended SNL sketch?
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...but I just like to come in here and speak of something completely off topic and (hopefully) a little lighter than the usual tone of these political TB's.Altho you did not address my larger concern...the notion of panda somehow naturally fitting into the role of samurai? And not say some of the animals that the various Kung Fu styles are modeled after? Jeeze people...you got a whole 'CGI cutsey animal does kung-fu' franchise right there! Tiger, monkey, mantis, etc,...think of the possibitlities!!!
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Jun 05, 2008 11:49:05 AM CDT
OH LOOK, IT'S MORBID AND HIS FASCINATING TAKE ON THE ECONOMY
by bringingsexyback
Thanks for sharing that willful ignorance with us. Being positive in the face of adversity is a commendable trait - ignorant, not so much.
Taking yourself out tonight? -
Jun 05, 2008 11:50:14 AM CDT
MAYBE MORBID CAN GIVE US HIS LIST OF BUSH'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS
by bringingsexyback
How about it, Morb?
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fair enough. it is pretty fucking funny the things he says."as the president... i am a follower of politics..."
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I believe history will judge W. Bush as a President who faced severe challenges second only to Lincoln and FDR. He came into a severe recession and market crash. The worst foreign attack in US history, necessitating 2 wars at once. The proliferation (aided and abetted by Dems) of nuclear weapons to hostile rogue dictatorships. The destruction of a major US city by category 5 hurricane. Defeating the Taliban with a modest use of force. (Something the entire Soviet military in all its brutality couldn't accomplish.) Defeating and deposing one of the worst mass murderers in history, Saddam Hussein. Freeing over 50 million people. Taking the terrorist war on us to them and beating them, while deflecting any more attacks like the WTC. Were mistakes made, of course, but the outcomes were mostly positive despite the nonsense of worst President drivel.
Bush has primarily suffered from a press corps that has grown ever more transparently partisan and virulent and a disloyal opposition that has done what no opposition has ever done in our history.... actively worked for the defeat of our armed forces and foreign policy. The endless drumbeat of negativity and bitter undeserved attacks, mostly fabricated, eventually tarnishes anyone. The Katrina debacle was only 10% Federal Government fault, 50% local and state officials, and 40% citizens who were too stupid to get out of the way of a Category 5 storm. All the crap that supposedly went on, people dieing, was exaggerated by the media or just outright lies. Katrina was a PR disaster for the White house but not from lack of effort. Let's see, how did the last President handle the destruction of a US city? Oh, it never happened before?
Abu Graib was nonsense from the beginning. One of many attempts to undermine the War on terrorism.
Where W. Bush failed is where most of the folks who hate him might defend him. The Prescription Drug Program created another disastrous entitlement that will advance ultimate bankruptcy by decades. He failed to provide leadership on cutting spending and the debt grew.(Not from cutting taxes, that increased revenues as it always does.) He presided over huge growth in the Federal Government and bureaucracy. He failed to secure the borders and supported a disastrous Immigration Bill. He billed himself as a Conservative, but governed domestically as a moderate Liberal. He let Ted Kennedy write the Education Bill, as if Dems haven't done enough already to make sure government schools are 3rd world. The Subprime loan debacle occurred primarily because Dems insisted that Illegals and poor be given a break on mortgages. That worked fine until the housing bubble burst. But it was on Bush's watch and he should have known better.
Of course any true film exploring Bush's tenure will be sympathetic. For the most part, even if they don't like how some policies turned out, people not deranged or gullible to propaganda don't hate him or believe he is not a man of virtue and compassion. At worst he is a man who faced historic challenges and was not quite up to the task, but not vile or an idiot. At best, he faced his challenges head on, made some mistakes, but ultimately triumphed over them. Of course Liberal Historians will never criticize him for growing government, his most eggregious flaw. -
...which would be pretty ballsy and could be really good. Shake up Stone's over-produced tendencies and make it real raw and stark.
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But I'm the type to look beyond my own door and care, just a little, about our country as a whole. Being a good neighbor and all that. If you even socialized with others you might understand the sense of community, but then again rejection is a tough hurdle to cross. So - you got that list of Bush's accomplishments?
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I actually can't wait for Obama to be Pres... You know why, becuase the twits in the media will make everything seem hunky dory and people will buy it and the spirit of the country will actually improve. The media is such a powerful influence on the psychology of the country that I am actually starting to believe that it is better to have a liberal in office. While I typically disagree with most liberal policies, we rarely hear about any faults from them in the media and stuff is swept under the rug and we go on happy for awhile until a conversative is elected. Then when they have to clean up the messes from the past few years and make actual hard, unpopular decisions, everybody turns sour, etc and so on. The thing that scares me though is that we will have a dem congress, senate, and presidency. Gov't, in my opinion works best, when nothing can be done, thus I like mixed parties in power. Oh, and none of us can really know who the worst president in history is because we have only lived a certain number of years. Everybody says that about any unliked president during their lifetime. If the six months after 9-11 had been at the very end of Bush's time in office--he would have been a grand old president, instead he had to slog on for most of 7 years through a lot of crap (some of it self imposed--iraq war, but some not: 9-11, Katrina, housing market, etc.). I am not the biggest fan of W, but I will give the guy one thing: he's not afraid to make an unpopular decision if he thinks its the right thing to do (whether you agree with it or not). To me that takes balls. You can't say that about a Clinton--they love polls and always want(ed) to look good in everyone's eyes. Its only recently after Big Billy has gone nuts, that I like what I see--some pissed off, backbone. Don't even get me started on now Barney Fife lookalike Carter.
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wow. that was long winded and not one sided at all.
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My fucking god. Have you not been paying attention for the last 7 Years?
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will never stop being funny to me. it is pure comedy gold on a level with the best of classic steve martin, bill cosby, mitch hedberg, seinfeld, george carlin, you name it. pure fucking comedy genius.
i hope to god the last 8 years turn out to be a big long drawn out episode of punk'd.
"hey america... we got punk'd!!" -
no hyperbole, you have to be nuts.
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Ask Morbid for his facts, and expect crickets along with weaving and dodging.
The economy is Bush's accomplishment. That's the best he could do? Really? I expected perhaps "reforming the Arab world" to be another. -
Oh, and before you start in on Bush's performance during Katrina, if any of you have worked in the Federal gov't (under any admin), I think you would agree with me that to cut through all the red tape of the largest beraucracy and actually have stuff on the ground in 5 days was miracle in my book.. its not like there wasn't warnings all over the place that the storm was coming. The emergency system was a state gov't issue, of which Louisiana has the one of the worst. FEMA was there to back up the state, and their response time was actually faster than I would have expected.
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yeah, i caught that too. along with the whole "necessitating 2 wars at once" and "Defeating the Taliban."way to defeat the Taliban, W. you got 'em.and way to stumble onto some real awful shit (genocide) while looking for fake awful shit (WMDs).
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There's some fucking idiots posting here. I don't feel sorry for Bush in the slightest. How could you?
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I'm stunned. That's the stupidest fucking post I've seen in a long, long time.
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you know exactly what he is getting at and are being disingenuous.
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Jun 05, 2008 12:17:30 PM CDT
BUSH NEVER PERJURED HIMSELF IN THE 9/11 INVESTIGATION
by bringingsexyback
Because he and Cheney refused - they refused - to testify under oath, and only agreed to answer questions holding each other's hands behind closed doors.
Let's not attribute that evasion to Bush's intelligence, however. He just has the shiftiest advisors money can buy. Justice, or America, be damned. -
its an endless circle argument. I try to look at both sides, see the positives and negatives when weighing my personal opinions--you will never be able to convince any of these guys to do that. I personnally think W is one of the most fiscally irresponsible presidents we have had, a HORRIBLE speaker, and the worst PR dept of any president I have been alive for, but I admire his courage to make unpopular decisions. I will also refrain overall judgement on the outcome in the middle east for now. I admit we haven't been hit since 9-11 so there is one argument that fighting over there is working so far--you can't say that for Spain or London. I can take the good with the bad and try to evaluate it. Even though Iraq was likely a bad decision based on poor intelligence, I do read the current reports coming out of there and Afghanistan which are highly positive. Those will be ignored by all "the W is a dumbass and can do no right" crowd on here. I would just give it up. In fact I now am. Bye.
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Well, you outposted me in this talkback, and that's a pretty difficult feat. We all know you're dishonest, but maybe it's time you acknowledged it yourself. Save yourself some embarassment.
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kept telling me the war was about WMDs and keeping america safe. a year or so later, when no WMDs were found, the tune changed from "Shock and Awe" to "Iraqi Freedom."yay. i done good, Pa.
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that's what it should be.
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I think the GOP is too scared to attach the name Bush to anything these days. Besides, unless McCain runs with Christ himself, Obama is gonna walk with this election.
And Clinton wasn't impeached for infidelity, he was impeached for lying to a grand jury while being deposed and obstructing justice in the proceeding investigation of a sexual harassment lawsuit. -
Destined to make Americans everywhere realize just how HYPER-LIBERAL the media has become!
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...for this is the only way that you comfort yourselves with loses in 2000, 2004 and 2008.
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That's going to take some serious makeup work to turn Newton into a nasty beast of a woman.
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did we claim it as a reason to go in? fuck no.did we wait until americans had a hate on for Arabs and middle easterns to go in and topple a government that benefits us to have under our control? yes.
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If Bush and Cheney's testimony - or more accurately, their Q&A session - were available for review, I could tell you. But unlike you, I tend to think the President and Vice-President are accountable to the people for their actions and inactions, not the least of which during the most horrific terrorist attack on America.
Not surprisingly, you might disagree, but that's only because it's Bush and not Clinton. It just wouldn't be like you to apply uniform standards regardless of party affiliation. -
Bush is a comfy hate-security blanket for the confused, borderline socipathic liberal portion of our society. The uncertainties of the world frighten them so they push all their insecurities onto Bush, the magical font from which all chaos and discord in the world flows. Bush caused 9/11, Bush caused Katrina, Bush caused $130 oil. Each one of these things is worse than anything that happened during the Clinton years, but Bush gets no credit for holding things together and all the credit for "causing" things like increased Indian and Chinese oil consumption and hurricane weather patterns. I can't wait for Bush to be gone if only so this quarter of the country can start to face reality with the rest of us.
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You just liked the gay parts, homo.
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in refusing to testify under oath during the 9/11 investigation. That's good to know. You may redeem yourself by the end of this talkback yet.
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No, Morbid is just defending the Administration to the best of his ability. It's a good thing, though, he's not being paid for his efforts because otherwise a refund is in order.
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Retailers reporting much higher sales for the month of May than expected.
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Jun 05, 2008 1:01:09 PM CDT
YOU MEAN THE STIMULUS PACKAGE THAT BUSH FOUGHT AGAINST?
by bringingsexyback
That one?
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that lacks a point or sense. Pointless and senseless, as ever.
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So happy he tried to prevent it from passing. Nice try, no cigar!
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who is pretty certain that the official story of what happened on 9/11 is a complete lie? We're on the internet here people. Aren't we all supposed to be crazy conspiracy nuts? Or am I living in the 90's? Like, if you do about 5 minutes of research into the events of 9/11 and you have a shred of curiosity in you, you will have questions that have never been officially answered. Like, for starters, "Why did the 9/11 Commission not discuss at all the afternoon collapse of WTC7, another smaller building close to the Twin Towers?"Cue witticisms about my screen name invalidating my opinions... now.
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in deciphering his riddles. Morbid thinks a lot of himself, doesn't he?
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reported as being much lower for the month than expected.
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I haven't gotten it yet, has anyone else?
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With your finger pointing down.
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Define "much".
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Maybe "much" won't be so "much" next month.
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and the sad thing is they didn't even have to change a quote.
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Hmmm. Almost makes him sound like an ironic superhero.I don't know...I'm still getting an ANY GIVEN SUNDAY vibe off this one.
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That poster is fucking ridiculous. In a bad way. "Bush-isms" started being a lot less funny around the time we went to war for fabricated reasons.
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I'm getting more of a RUDY: THE RUDY GIULIANI STORY vibe. And it makes me uncomfortable.
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lets see:Morbid is a crazy Right. or are crazy rights too liberal for him? who can tell.BSB is shooting down pretty much everything coming from Morbid's corner.Dickblood and a few others are trying to get off the political bullshit, which i admire.and kirtrik needs six hundred bucks.all caught up.
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We've reached the final act. Time for Obama to take the stage.
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I'm no expert but I believe the 9/11 Commission came to no definitive conclusion on WTC 7. The reason being, there was not enough sufficient evidence for one. However, I believe they (NIST?) have been investigating it again for sometime now. I know that more information in the form of eyewitness accounts and photos (taken from angles not seen in all the conspiracy videos) has come to light. Some online research will show that it looks less favorable for the conspiracists regarding that issue. But I'm sure that won't stop them from believing what they want to believe.
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Ha! I think that would make me uncomfortable, too.
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This makes Oliver Stone look like a liberal twit taking pot shots. Sure the president is not an eloquent speaker. We all know that already, we don't need a movie to try to micro analyze everytime he mis spoke.
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That's when Morbid takes himself out on a date. So sweet.
And he's going to watch Zohan, in which a sabra abandons his homeland and seeks out a secular life in America. Just the kind of movie to drive the NeoCon Zionists to drink. -
Jun 05, 2008 1:30:23 PM CDT
AND DON'T FORGET, ZOHAN CATCHES BULLETS WITH HIS TEETH
by bringingsexyback
I'm sure Morbid will think that's real too. Poor kid.
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Does truth exist? Liberal media? Really? Liberal newspapers here and there, yes, of course. But all media liberal? All? Really? An honorable country that cannot look inward at its good AND bad? Really? A country where to voice concern over 'the war' or anything political these days is the same as voicing dissent and even though that same dissent facilitated the birth herald of this country, it is now seen as traitorous in some circles? Really? And you don't see that as fucked up no matter your politics? Clinton is the best president and Bush is the worst president ever? Really? Conservatives are uncaring and Liberals are anti-American? Really? Conservatives planned and implemented the murder of 3000 American civilians in New York? Liberals, with their love of the enemy, caused 9-11 by doing nothing and allowing it to happen? Really? I don't want to come across as preachy (yes, convincing myself here) but in my feeble attempts to lighten these particular TB's up with inanity I've noticed that there is literally no common ground between opposing camps whatsoever. Nothing. Perhaps a gauzy "love of country" but beyond the esoteric, nothing of substance. It is as if there is no solution because you each live in different worlds. In one world, we are liberators...in another world we have become the terrorists. In one world "Free speech zones" are reasonable protections against the 'mob'...in another world they are semantical oxymorons. So which is it? No matter how smart or knowledgeable any of us are...the truth is neither tenet is wholly accurate when given the big picture.Is there a recession or not? How's the economy doing? Well if you listen to the "wolves guarding the henhouse" they're always going to say "Everything great! Thanks for asking!" and if you ask the "hens in the henhouse under the eye of the wolf" they'll say "We're in a economic crisis not seen since the depression!". Such opposite speculations would have been odd once upon a time before personal and professional interests corrupted fucking everything. Now what surprises me is how nobody talks about this purposeful "unknown" or "no unbiased truth" aspect pervading almost all political discourse today. I believe you when you say "I think I'm right on this" I respect it even, but when you say something like "I'm dead right on this and there is no need for further discussion" then I must question your intent and convictions.You could indeed be right but you don't need to be immobile and uncompromising to prove it.Me? I'm just a simple jackass like most everybody else...progressive on certain things...libertarian on social issues (victimless crimes? really?) and conservative on certain issues. I believe too much of any one thing in politics is bad as these are ultimately methods for identifying and solving problems that affect society which, by definition, has far too many variables and factors to ever be solved by one-sided answers. Hell, liberalism and conservatism themselves have not been so militant and narrowly focused as they are today.Does this mean I'm a democrat or republican? I know you don't care specifically but follow my argument for a moment...When painting in absolute strokes there is no room for variance and nuance. Do you think even the most die-hard liberals would want to pay to feed and clothe capable strangers for their entire lives? Do you think even the most die-hard conservatives want people who cannot afford health care to suffer? Do you think the "other side" is only evil or at least 'dead wrong' and nothing else? Do you see my point yet? Some of you guys are blindly, if not selectively and actively, ignoring certain realities and some of you are not. There's always a little snap of "As a conservative I can tell you why I hate Bush, etc, etc" and "As a tree-hugging lib, I can tell you why I don't like Clinton" which is wonderful that people aren't associating individuals with party or country. But still...republican or democrat eh? Which ones? I don't know. But in my pretentious quest to try and remain neutral on a film-geek's website, I've started to see most of these posts as bumper-sticker politics. The kind where I say something and you read it...no discussion necessary.Now...would you please PASS the JELLY?!?!?!!!?!?!
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best bumper sticker ever:Republicans for Voldemort.
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Jun 05, 2008 1:41:38 PM CDT
Personally I'm usually voting for whoever is on the "Freak Ticke
by g-ride9000
HST for worldwide domination from the grave...who's with me.
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My better half said that it is more than likely that Republicans will try to find that name on the voting machine, and complain when they can't.
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there is no room for wafflers, Darth. you know the drill. if you're not with us, you're against us. no one can be both, not even a little.so, make your claim:did you like Indy4?
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Don't you get lonely in the middle? Come to our side. Not only are the women hotter, there are no women on the other side anyway.
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i had it on my car years a ago, back in the Motherland (Texas), and i actually had folks roll down their windows and say "i'm a republican too, but who is Voldemort.it was pretty awesome.
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you know where it goes.
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I'd rather talk about how incredibly strange this project is, or the teaser work that is, basically, the same design as various posters and bumper stickers.
Stop talking politics/war/conspiracy/media/blahblah.
The real point is everywhere you go people are having these same arguments for no reason and none of you listen to eachother. It's not like any single one of you are going to have your minds or opinions changed about anything. That's the biggest problem in our country today, no one listens anymore. You have your self-important arguments, but most of you just give your two-cents, refresh the page to read how witty and superior you are one last time, and then laugh at what everyone else says cause they are all such fat stupid lazy mamas boys who live in their parents basements and cry about Indiana Jones. Ya ya, we've heard those insults ten million times.
I think the only thing we should all really agree on, is that Bush has said some incredibly hilarious things during his Presidency. Not because he is a stupid person. Because he is a terrible public speaker.
"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." That shit is incredibly funny. -
Unless Bush is given death ray eyes. And a light saber. And there's a sex scene with Thandie Newton. And Dick Cheney's pace make is a little nuclear generator that glows in his chest, sort of like Iron Man. And if Cheney turns into a giant robot.
Actually, The Super Ex-Presidents would make for a much more interesting movie. They oughta do that one. -
Did you say something?
Seriously, most polticians say hilarious things, but Bush's fecundity with malapropisms is, indeed, second to none. Some of the funnier things he's said is "I'll sign McCain-Feingold, after I promised not to." Then he said: "I'll create a huge prescription drug entitlement to further burden our Medicare system." Which was hilarious. Then he said: "I'll let Ted Kennedy write our education bill, and fill it full of socialism and pork." Which had me rolling on the floor. Then he said that thing about there being 58 states . . . oops, no, sorry, I'm thinking of somebody else. -
At least Voldemort is honest with his intentions. What he will absolutely not do is name a bill "Healthy Skies Initiative" where it lowers pollution standards. Or name a bill "Healthy Forests Initiative" where it expands deforestation. Voldemort would at least be honest about it.
What's really funny is how the lessons we learn from books like Harry Potter, or even Animal Farm or 1984, completely go over the heads of so many Bush supporters. Funny and sad at the same time. -
Wait...did you say something? Seriously, I'm not a stupid person at all, but you're trying way too hard. Try, "The guy is constantly saying stupid shit." That way everyone won't think you're such a douche.
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He's ignored/defended by the bureacracy, he believes in utopia with all powerful elite in charge (named, himself), is always dressing in black, and believes the ends justify the means. And you surely couldn't say he was pro-life (death eaters). And while he is pro-wand for himself, I don't think he cares for the masses having any sort of wand-ownership rights. And he tends to be very negative: "You will lose . . . everything." Man, that's a Democrat slogan if ever I heard one.I'm afraid he really belongs on the Democratic ticket.
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Yeah, those "women" are totally vacuous. If ever there was a true Stepford wife, Laura is it. Imagine the birds chirping between those ears - must be music to ol' Dubya.
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That's what I'm talking about - lesson wasted ...
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I'm sorry, I should talk down to you because I'm afraid you'd have trouble understanding multi-syllabic words?
And I should care if people on a AICN talkback think I'm a douche?
And what have you got against douches? Women don't have a right to a fresh, clean feeling? -
You're just wrong. And it was boring. And it was pointless. And cliche. Hey, wait, you're right. The lesson was wasted!
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Them's fightin' words!!!
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That would put Dumbuldorf as head conservative..and he's gay, so which one are you evil or gay?
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Bush should be able to shoot death rays from his eyes. It's how he bullies the supreme court into appointing him president. It'll be great!
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Even if I hated the president, plopping down 10 bucks just to hate him a slim modicum more?
This film is for people who thought SuperSize Me was so ground breaking, and needed a movie to tell them a straight diet of fatty processed foods will make you both fat and sick. No, really? Get the f*ck outta town! -
There's the entire story in an at a glance one sheet.
God forbid anyone should send Mr 71%. After all there was ansolutely no comedy or satire ever made about the far more disasterous Blow Job from Monica. -
Yes, I do expect to get a great 2-word review when Morbid returns. I'm itching with anticipation!
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so I'll pay 11.
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That 7 years after 911 the leading candidate for the Presidency is a Black Guy with an Arab sounding name. Seriously, all the propoganda machinery, Evangelical pandering and mind control smoke in the world couldn't stop him from still going down as the worst President of our lifetime. I don't think he's evil. He's a schmuck who happened to be thrown into politics because a bunch of energy lobby creeps who were friends with his dad(also not that bad a guy other than pretty much being a drug dealer who got the ambassador to the U.N. gig from Nixon as a total fluke and spun that into a political career)wanted to make some extra scratch at the expense of the American people. Yeah, that's a bold generalization but it pretty much covers it.
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"Fool me... can't get fooled again!"
My all-time favorite Bush quote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntwdH3Q54ZY -
Nice one Morbid Obesity, good to see you are your own man and aren't a Republican or are trying to get McCain elected as the Republican talking points from now until November are very clear about pretending Dubya doesn't exist and distancing the Republicans and McCain from him every chance they get.
As for the actual film I have no idea whether Stone has the chops to pull off a satire/tragedy but he's not exactly short of material to work with is he ? -
Are the same people who work at Wal-Mart and cheer on the area manager when he tells them to work even longer and harder so he (the manager) can get a bigger bonus. Politicians don't give a FUCK about you (Obama included, even though he apparently invented hope or some such). These are largely millionaires before they get into office and they have NO IDEA what it's like to live in our world. The way people applaud them, make excuses for them, and get inspired by them (oh make me fucking gag and barf at the same time) is really pathetic. But then I guess it's like dogs - you can train a dog to think that kicking it is expressing love for it such that it will actually want to be kicked. That's America.
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Seriously people. I am sick of stupid movies!
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Nice one man. Consider the jelly passed.
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Jun 05, 2008 3:09:40 PM CDT
There was a huge investigation into a deal that BAE had made wit
by emeraldboy
the blair govt. Blair stopped the invastigation. Underlying the importance of Britians security and Saudia Arabia invovlement as a key allie in the War on Terror. intrestingly tthe investigation has now been re-opened in the US and prosecutors are taking the case very seriously. The deal was worth billions. and blair said he favoured the deal to beef up security against terrorist attacks.
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A Socialist Republican?
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Hey, man, I work at Wal-Mart. Don't lump me in with those fools!
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bush and co. are not real republicans - or real conservatives for that matter - ask a real conservative republican, they will agree
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Stone went on the Late Late show with pat kenny. last year. He made a very good point. the War in iraq is and has always been about vengence. nothing more, nothing less. Bush and his people new this. Yeah, there was the stuff about oil and WMD. I have always maintained that this war is about fundamentalism. christian fundmentalism. I live in Ireland and I hate my country. I really fucking do. The things that are happening here are just appalling. I dont smoke. But I am all for giving people the option of smoking. The healtheban decided otherwise and soon smoking will be banned everywhere. I ireland you will no longer be allowed smoke in cars with children. Yes smoking is bad for you. But this gvt of ours decided to ban it outright. no options. The same with drinking. We have a huge problem with drinking in Ireland. The gardai have been the power to stop underage drinking which means if your a teen in ireland caught coming out of an offlicence with a bag of drink, gardai will have the power to stop you. The UK govt will ban the sale of Ciggs from shops. Carrying a knife too in the will also a criminal offence. and the liberals will also be banned. but who votes for them anyway!
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except - at least obama was "one of us" at one time - he wasnt born rich or particularly advantaged - he worked and earned his way to get where hes at - bush didnt - it was given to him
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I'm not lumping you in with those dudes, but I bet you, more than anyone here, know the people I'm talking about! I used to work in a Pizza Hut in Athens, Georgia in the 90s and we had an area manager who would say, completely baldfaced, that we had to "get our numbers up" (read: work, work, work harder!) so that he could get his quarterly bonus. We, of course, got nothing out of this.
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Stone HAS to release it around the time of the election, just to remind the Bushites that they can't vote for him a third time.
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But I'm still damn suspicious of his platform. Doesn't he want "Carter Doctrine" Brzyinski as one of his advisors? Not a good sign, and certainly not "hopeful." Also his lack of support for single-payer healthcare is troubling as well. Support for Israel isn't too good either, in my opinion. Yeah he's better than McCain but that's not saying much. At least I won't have to hold my nose to vote for him like I did with Kerry but that's certainly no goal for our "democracy."
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is "Zbigniew Brzezinski." Thanks internets!
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It's cool, man. Just wanted everybody here to know how awesome I am because I work at Wal-Mart.
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I remember 4-5 years ago, 90% of the posts in any thread remotely political (I'm surprised Michael Moore threads didn't crash the server) were a load of foaming at the mouth "Anyone who says a word against George W Bush hates America!" Now you're hard pushed to find even a Republican who will defend him. I knew he was bad news 8 years ago when he stole the nomination from McCain (who is sadly a repetitive pale shadow of the man he was a decade ago). I'm glad everyone else has caught up with me now, but for the sake of saving a lot of misery over the NEXT 8 years, vote for Obama, will you? Bush can never be forgiven for the damage he has done to the Constitution, particularly the Fourth Amendment being overwritten by the Patriot Act. 200 hundred years ago this year, Jefferson was coming to the end of his term in office. That's how far the US has fallen.
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but only to the extent that it discusses the underpinnings of how Bush became president. I believe Bush to be something like Britney Spears - a manufactured, carefully controlled and designed commodity. There probably isn't any "George W. Bush" in the way that there's a you and me. He's a brand and he was sold. Who created him? Who voted for him? Who made the decisions for him? He's clearly an imbecile, but I think at least some of that is manufactured - his southern twang (he's from Connecticut, isn't he? And a millionaire son of a millionaire family?). He was, and is, a carefully packaged commodity to be consumed. Why? Why did he resonate with so many Americans? How did America get to the point where we actually want a down-home, folksy yokel in the highest office and not a reasonable, thoughtful, MENSA member? And, of course, the film has to discuss fundamentalism and how the Christian Right helped put him in place. If this film is just a series of pratfalls and "ooooo we just HATE Bush!" (which is a common pitfall of the Left - hating the man instead of analyzing the culture that creates - and needs - creatures like him). If that's all this film is, then it's going to be pretty topical and won't have any resonance to future generations.
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These two have nothing in common. Will she be under heavy make up.
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I agree with Klytus that Stone shouldn't make some topical film out of this. They should read The Bush Tragedy by Jacob Weisberg, which portrays the whole story of Bush as a sort of Shakespearian tragedy, about a young man born into a privileged family, going off the rails, convincing himself he has a destiny and being obsessed with great historical legends like Churchill, but then being corrupted by those hungry for power. The Bush in this film needs to be a three-dimensional character, a human being, not just a one-dimensional figure of fun or hate.
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A three-hour biopic of George W Bush that just cataloged his life, his career, his failures, etc. would be really, really fucking boring. I do wonder if they'll address the fact that Laura Bush was a drunk driver and ran a stop sign and killed someone. I mean yeah, she was 17, but isn't it curious that no one really paraded that around in 2000 or 2004? Do you think Bush's party would have been so generous if this were Obama's wife? Shit you could probably make a doc about that issue in and of itself.
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I really want to have a conversation with you dudes but the Busted Tees girls keep grabbing my attention. How about a movie starring these ladies? Must... stop.. scrolling up...
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Boring. Who cares anymore? The fact that these is starting to look like a comedy makes this seem like an even worse movie than I thought.
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We need a President with balls. Every President has made mistakes (George Washington and his screwup of the Whiskey rebellion, Wilson and his belated entry into WWI, Roosevelt not using the A-bomb earlier). This level of vitriol was aimed at Clinton, how soon we forget. It is just that Bush is the current President, he's in our face and we see, close-up, his mistakes. In the overall scheme of things, he has done no worse than most other Presidents. No Presidency is spotless (except maybe Harrison, Calvin Coolidge and Garfield but only because they were President for such a short time).
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How about Washington and Shay's Rebellion? See, we've always treated our veterans well!
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Does this mean he won't play Professor Roy Hinkley in my dream "Gilligan's Island" movie anymore?
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W. great President or the greatest President?
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Stone is hyper liberal?
Didn't the dude earn the right to criticize his president the old fashioned facist way? By getting shot and killing ethnic people for his country? What the fuck did Bill O'Reilly ever do?
Look, one word can sum up the Bush junta: Halliburton. If this guy had been Phillipino, there would have been a people power uprising and Barbra Bush' s shoe collection would have been exposed to the world. -
...BOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRING!
Stupid fucks. Every war the US has been involved in were catalyst to positive change. Lincoln had what was considered to be an 18% "approval rating". He was labeled a war-monger, people labeled him a traitor, and many different parties wanted him killed. They got their wish in that case - but looks at what changes he forced, and how he went about implementing them. Even the most dense can see the parellels, and in 100-200 years the most significant thing about this war won't be the personalities involved - but the change it provoked, and the freedom it spread.
Read a history book, why don'cha? -
Is that if Bush's own record doesn't dissuade his followers, NOTHING will. There's no reason to even have the conversation with a W supporter. They don't think the way the rest of us do.
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You sure are a demanding person. Next thing you know, you'll be demanding a President with intelligence.
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Why do you support the NeoCommunists?
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ga who's gonna shatter Gus Van Rant's world and make him cry.
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They'll rebuild America ... Vegas style!
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Damn, you're right! Why in the last 5 years did no one see that? You should be President!
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Just to remind the racists he's part them!
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Now why does Stone have to go and be a divider when this country needs to stick together to fight the terrorists. You bunch o commies.
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our country is in need of a president who can gesticulate rigidly and smile creepily, and scamper across the stage with tiny robotic steps
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no. and Troy was horrible too.
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And Ford couldn't fix it. Jimmy Carter managed to tame the national debt but Reagan quadrupled it trying to fix the economy.
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Because they are the bestest people in the country!
BTW, Mori, when is my black box getting activated? -
Because I have no idea what that meant ...
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goddamn that shit is funny. laughing till tears. crying and laughing. laughing trying not to cry for real because it is so very sad.
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You thought gas prices were bad....just wait, for the tax man cometh! Taxes for what you ask?: "Free" universal healthcare, Global Warming Agenda, Out of control Boarders, congress wanting to overtake the oil business, and many many many more new government programs to take away our freedoms and our liberty. You might as well give the goverment your entire paycheck. Welcome to real change Comrades!
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I Agree
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Is the White House ready for her jelly?
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Yeah, I'm sure the right-wingers will be standing behind the President for the next 8 years. Just like they've been telling the Libs to for the last 8.
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Because he's gonna need a miracle to win this.
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MiNDfREaK!!! MiNDfREaK!!! MiNDfREaK!!!
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Because Jeff is already intimately familiar with the White House.
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Jun 05, 2008 10:24:20 PM CDT
TACOLOFT - WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS?
by bringingsexyback
You're already being taxed like a dog, but your money is lining the pockets of war profiteers and the pharma execs. Would it be so terrible to shift that same funding to healthcare for us, and rebuilding our national infrastructure? Of do you really prefer the status quo? Try stepping back and stop being so blinded by anti-social program rhetoric.
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hope is where you find it.
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forgive me for not reading this entire TB -- maybe someone already commented on this -- but I had to stop after reading one of the regulars calling a conservative "one-sided." Thanks for the hearty chuckle!
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Trading Places 2: White House Boogaloo
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Or maybe not ...
... after finding out that his wet dream fantasy of an "Israeli commando having sex with lots of women and killing Palestinians in NYC" turns out to be a gay Israeli commando who leaves his homeland defenseless against Hezbollah, has sex with lots of guys and ends up making peace and befriending Arabs in NYC.
I'm sure he's still on the phone with Fandango trying to get a refund on his ticket. -
because 1) The conservatives need to be taught a lesson, and 2) I'm truly tired of hearing all the Bush-bashing (I'm not a fan, incidentally) and it's time for the liberals to be taught a lesson as well. Be careful what you wish for, Dems. Soon you won't have Bush to blame.
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Saddam Hussein was evil... George W Bush is stupid... Bush's Iraq War has killed more Iraqi people than Hussein and his thugs ever did. Stupid can be worse than evil.
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Oliver...go back to writing and making movies like Year of the Dragon, Platoon, Wall Street, etc. W will flop... no one cares. Worst President? Ulysses S. Grant. I'd probably be bored to tears about his life as well.
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People who continue to this day to support Bush are bunch of self-deluded right wing weirdos who's mommy and daddy didn't love them enough
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See they only make movies for good presidents :)
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I didn't vote for the dude. But I've said it in real life, and I'll say it on the internets: I would love to have a beer and a laugh with the dude. W seems like he'd laugh right along with a good ball-busting. And probably have some retarded and funny comebacks!
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The Dalai is cool.
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John Travolta played Clinton in Primary Colors.
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You too can smell like a first African-American President.
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Where's BraneRobot?
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Jun 06, 2008 7:48:32 AM CDT
ZOEFAN - HERE'S YOUR REALITY CHECK ON THE STATE OF UNEMPLOYMENT
by bringingsexyback
Today's news - courtesy of CNN:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/news/economy/jobs_may/index.htm?cnn=yes
Unemployment soars to 5.5%
Increase in the jobless rate is the biggest since 1986 as payrolls decline for the fifth straight month.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The unemployment rate took its biggest jump in more than two decades in May as employers once again cut jobs from U.S. payrolls, according to a government report Friday, showing a job market weaker than expected.
The unemployment rate soared to 5.5% from only 5% in April. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had only forecast the closely watched rate would rise to 5.1% in the month.
The Labor Department also reported that there was a net loss of 49,000 jobs in May, compared to a revised loss of 28,000 jobs in April. That was actually a touch better than economists' forecast of a loss of 60,000 jobs, but it marked the fifth straight month that the economy has lost jobs, raising fears that the nation has fallen into a recession.
... but don't share that with Morbid. He prefers the comfort of his fantasy world, where the economy is doing great, and Israeli commandos catch bullets with their teeth.
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Let's see if they can get that Triforce back together.
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after having his TB arse figuratively kicked all week. And shouldn't Obama take Hillary as his running mate- I read somewhere that a shit load of her support would rather vote McCain than for Obama.
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it's so sad, but funny, that we allowed a fuckin' retard to run this country. Too bad he's fucked it all up for us and now we have to have someone fix it again. Don't elect another Bush, ever again people.
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Clint Eastwood tells Spike Lee to shut dat trap!
http://film.guardian.co.uk/interview/interviewpages/0,,2283921,00.html -
QUOTE:
"You're already being taxed like a dog, but your money is lining the pockets of war profiteers and the pharma execs. Would it be so terrible to shift that same funding to healthcare for us, and rebuilding our national infrastructure? Of do you really prefer the status quo? Try stepping back and stop being so blinded by anti-social program rhetoric."
So you are telling me to "keep on paying the government--let's just shift the money." BringingSexyBack do you even know the history of socialism or communism? I believe you don't or else you wouldn't have asked me "WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS?"
Look up Marx, Lenin, Hugo Chavez,ect...
Winston Churchill said it best, "a socialist policy is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the object worship of the state. It will prescribe for every one where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say. Socialism is an attack on the right to breathe freely. No socialist system can be established without a political police. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance."
Those who fail to learn from history ar dommed to repeat it.
BringingSexyBack, I say get rid of goverment programs and give the money back to the people and they will take care of themselves and each other better than the government ever can... -
oops sorry.......
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After a lukewarm response to the initial proposal he joined in the post war consensus and supported the NHS in Britain.
So was Churchill a socialilst or a communist ?
Or could it perhaps be that lavbelling anyone, who doesn't favour the wholesale dismantling of all social programs, public benefits or welfare, as a "communist" or a "socialist" is laughably oversimplistic ?
BTW the speech you quote was Churchills first election broadcast from the 1945 election where he was heavily defeated. That very speech is remembered as backfiring spectacularly on him with the electorate and helped cause the defeat because Attlee also served in Churchills cabinet so comparing him and his ideas to the "Gestapo" was a calamitous error and lapse of judgement even back then. -
Jun 07, 2008 2:27:43 AM CDT
History will show President Bush to be one of the greats
by antoniusbloc
Here's an AP story that hints at it, showing clearly the success of the Bush Doctrine to battle terrorism and keep us safe:http://tinyurl.com/5eqjj5
According to the article, " The Human Security Brief 2007 said that without the figures from Iraq, fatalities from terrorism have declined by some 40 percent since 2001. Disputing claims that terrorist activity is on the rise, project director Andrew Mack said that 'when we look a little bit more closely at this data, the incidence of terrorism is declining.'"
" Use simple logic and that tells you that strategy has worked and is working. The terrorists have been forced to defend their own territory, drawing away from the homeland and other countries throughout the world that had been infested by these Islamic fascists. Stone, those of you slamming a President who has kept you safe and free so you can attack his character, Obama, Clinton have no vision. Obama seeks power using only the power of his speech, with no substance. He sounds good, but his words are shallow, empty, mere platitudes. Bush is a terrible speaker, but his words come from his heart, and his words have substance, and are words of a true leader. Obama is a modern day Saruman, or having only 1 year experience in the Senate, not even an executive position, he is more like Wormtongue. His words are poison. They will again put this country and the world in danger. Obama already,for the sake of power, has endangered our troops, knowing they are on the ground and in danger, emboldens the enemy to continue to kill them. The Democratic party has no integrity. They claim to be liberal, but claim a war that granted a people liberty as wrong. They claim to believe in equality of races, but don't seem to think the races who live in the Middle East should be allowed to be free and democratic. They claim to care for our troops, but refuse to vote to fund for their food , equipment , and weapons as they are CURRENTLY in battle with the enemy. The democratic party stands for nothing but a desire for power. It claims to be progressive, but cannot articulate a goal to be progressive toward. It claims it doesn't want a country in debt, but wants to waste money not warring against terrorists but against Nature itself by causing a 'climate change' panic. They claim to believe in free speech, yet they advocate silencing speech through political correctness, which is essentially censorship. If the country were'nt as ignorant as the majority of people on this talckback, the democratic party would be extinct, and i think commons sense will lead to that fate in the near future. So again, so called liberal progressives, was it right or wrong to free the Iraqi people from a dictator? Now watch them dance.
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Let me Quote and link to Howstuffworks.com: http://history.howstuffworks.com/european-history/socialism5.htm
Socialism in Post-war Britain
Another example of applied socialism began just after World War II. Great Britain's storied leader during the devastating war, Prime Minister Winston Churchill, shockingly was defeated in re-election by Clement Atlee, a virtual unknown outside of Britain. Atlee was the head of the Labour Party, a democratic socialist party established in 1900, while Churchill was head of the conservative party, also known as the Tory Party. After World War II, much of Britain was fed up with healthcare concerns and labor problems, and many people didn't believe that Churchill's Tory party would effect any change. Atlee's socialist party addressed these issues by nationalizing industry and creating a free healthcare system.
The Labour Party nationalized Britain's main industries, including coal, electricity, steel and the railways. Nationalization occurs when the state takes over the means of production and distribution. The idea is that any profits generated will then benefit the country, rather than a wealthy few. Some improvements resulted from nationalization in Britain. For example, coal miners were given paid vacation and sick leave, and their safety became a greater concern. But nationalizing industry turned out to be trickier than anyone initially thought. Industries became inefficient and unprofitable because no competition existed to motivate workers to perform better on the job.
The new government also established the National Health Service (NHS) in 1948, which provided free medical care. The system was extremely popular -- to a fault. Funds allocated for the NHS were used up quickly, having been far under budgeted. But because the program was so popular among the people, it was kept in place, despite the debt it incurred. It remains even today as the only major change implemented by Atlee's Labour Party. Unfortunately, getting medical care under this free system can be a very tedious process with a long waiting time.
Although nationalization and free healthcare aimed to help its people, Great Britain began to suffer steep inflation rates -- as high as 24 percent in 1975 -- and high unemployment rates [source: PBS]. Welfare costs were also draining the economy. The period of December 1978 through January 1979 became known as the Winter of Discontent (an expression that originated from Shakespeare's play "Richard III"), thanks to the many members of the public sector who went on strike, including truck drivers, medical personnel and teachers. To the British people, the Labour Party seemed incapable of controlling the strikes that were affecting the public. Due to this strife, the Conservative Party came back into power when Margaret Thatcher was elected the first female prime minister in 1979.
Thatcher worked to improve the economy through reduced spending in areas like education and healthcare. Although inflation went down, unemployment continued to rise. Under Thatcher's leadership, Britain's government denationalized many important companies, starting with British Telecom. By selling it off to shareholders, the company's profitability and efficiency increased. Thatcher also reduced the power of trade unions to decrease the number of economically devastating strikes.
Though many of her policies may not have been popular, Thatcher managed to resolve some dicey economic situations in Great Britain. Her election was seen as a great victory for capitalism and prompted the beginning of a capitalist revolution of sorts. Countries such as Spain and France began to steer away from socialism and suddenly, the world's socialist population began to shift. While at the end of the 1970s, socialist and communist regimes were in control of 60 percent of the world's population, things were changing --fast [source: PBS].
Socialism Today
Socialism suffered major setbacks due to the collapse of communism in the Soviet Union and other Eastern European states. And many other societies followed in Great Britain's footsteps and denationalized their industries. However, some socialist-inspired programs exist today. In fact, any program that calls for the redistribution of wealth can be considered socialist. For example, the tax that the United States imposes on citizens to support the welfare system, which provides aid to financially unstable citizens, can be considered a socialist program. Healthcare systems like Medicare and Medicaid fall in the same category.
Another example of a socialist program is Canada's healthcare system. Proponents of this system argue that it provides free healthcare to those who would otherwise be uninsured or underinsured. They also point to the rising cost of health care in places like the United States, which some believe is caused by profit-driven insurance companies, for-profit hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.
But the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Canada's free healthcare system often delays important medical procedures and treatments simply because it doesn't have the manpower, space and time to handle them. One highly publicized example of this untimely delay is the case of identical quadruplets born in Montana. The quadruplets had to be delivered in Great Falls because no hospital in the entirety of Canada, where their parents reside, could handle their delivery. Every hospital was at capacity at the time. Other inconveniences include the average waiting time for a standard Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI): three months [source: Fraser Institute]. Critics of the system insist that while the residents may not pay much up front, they seem to pay for it in terms of delayed care and poor quality of service. The system isn't even actually free -- roughly 22 percent of Canadian tax dollars are used to fund the healthcare system [source: Lehr].
Socialist groups around the world continue to push for reform in their societies. However, they're often counteracted by critics, including the Future of Freedom Foundation, the Cato Institute and Sons of Liberty, many of whom point to what they consider to be the fatal error in socialist thought: How could any truly socialist society succeed without the incentives of profit and constraints of competition to motivate workers?
At any rate, the que¬st for a purely socialist -- and for that matter, a purely capitalist -- society has eluded economists thus far. After all, the United States, considered one of the most successful capitalist economies in the world, utilizes a number of socialist-inspired programs to help its financially encumbered citizens. For the time being, at least, it seems that mixed economies, featuring both socialist and capitalist elements, are much more realistic.
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Was Churchill a communist or a socialist ?
For that matter was Thatcher a communist or a socialist ?
Your potted history fails to adress both these figures acceptance of the NHS as an integral part of Britain's welfare system.
Perhaps you could inform us whether Obama is a socialist or communist for wanting to introduce some form of universal healthcare in America ? McCain has also said he wants to at least reform healthcare so does that indicate communist or socialist leanings ?
America does not have and will probably never have full employment. It has a sizeable number of unemployed and a sizeable underclass. Some of this is mitigated somewhat by certain Government programs of welfare. Those who think that system should remain in place are not communists or socialists despite crudely throwing labels at them to that effective. Following this so far ? As, Dude, it doesn't require a great deal of smartness.
Now tell me why the Taxpayer should spend a great deal more money on corporate welfare ? Billions in Tax breaks for those who hardly need it like the Gaint Oil conglomerates certainly doesn't sound too "smart" these days does it ? Enron, WorldCom, ringing any bells ? Couple that with the fact that Welfare is a laughably small fraction of what the Taxpayer has to fork out for Defense and we find all this is mere misdirection. The ancient and much used Political trick of finding convenient scapegoats to heap the problems of the world on and blame for any percieved fault in society.
Being poor is not a crime it's an unfortunate reality for millions. And at a time when house foreclosures and unemployment are ramping up sharply in an Economy turning to shit I don't think you will find too many people or indeed Presidential Candidates willing to lay all the blame for the manifest current problems at the feet of the welfare system and those who have to rely on it. -
Jun 09, 2008 2:03:36 PM CDT
I admire quoting a speech that lost Churchill an election though
by g100
Churchill was the prime example of a great Wartime Prime Minister and Leader. So I suppose It's only right that we can remember his failures such as that speech you quoted as well as his successes.
After all Bush is said to have a bust of Churchill in the Oval Office. Just a pity that he is now Mr 71% so his rather feeble attempt to place himself in the same company of Mr Churchill is a touch ironic. -
Jun 09, 2008 2:32:24 PM CDT
G100 Instead of asking questions why not share your own opinion
by tacoloft
How can I answer to someone who already knows everything? I cut and pasted the article as you seem to be the type of person who requires third party input due to the fact that any sort of response I would provide would be insufficient. Bottom line is I don't have to answer questions you have already formulated answers to. You have already demonstrated the lack to absorb the previous information presented and deem yourself the authority figure on the subject. But to humor you:
Was Churchill a communist or a socialist ?
He was conservative. As a politician I am sure he was a socialist in certain aspects in backing government programs.
“For that matter was Thatcher a communist or a socialist ?”
As a politician I am sure she was a socialist in certain aspects in backing government programs.
“Your potted history fails to address both these figures acceptance of the NHS as an integral part of Britain's welfare system.”
It wasn’t my “potted history” I introduced 3rd party opinions. And if you read and understood you would realize that NHS was a bad mistake.
“Perhaps you could inform us whether Obama is a socialist or communist for wanting to introduce some form of universal healthcare in America ? McCain has also said he wants to at least reform healthcare so does that indicate communist or socialist leanings ?”
Yes they are both Socialists in their actions albeit I am sure they would describe themselves differently.
“Now tell me why the Taxpayer should spend a great deal more money on corporate welfare ? Billions in Tax breaks for those who hardly need it like the Giant Oil conglomerates certainly doesn't sound too "smart" these days does it ? Enron, WorldCom, ringing any bells ? Couple that with the fact that Welfare is a laughably small fraction of what the Taxpayer has to fork out for Defense and we find all this is mere misdirection. The ancient and much used Political trick of finding convenient scapegoats to heap the problems of the world on and blame for any perceived fault in society.”
You are complaining about taxes to me?! Ha! What do you think a socialized universal healthcare is going to do to our taxes?! I agree there are plenty of things to reform in our tax system. The fact that I have to pay anything for socialized welfare is a discredit to the human race. It tells those with need, “You should know that no-one will help you BUT the government.” It takes away the opportunity for average citizens to step in and help on their own accord and not forcefully.
I have no problem paying for defense because that actually was one of the roles of the government when it was formed.
“Being poor is not a crime it's an unfortunate reality for millions. And at a time when house foreclosures and unemployment are ramping up sharply in an Economy turning to shit I don't think you will find too many people or indeed Presidential Candidates willing to lay all the blame for the manifest current problems at the feet of the welfare system and those who have to rely on it.”
I agree, being poor is not a crime- but it is a RIGHT. People should have the right to be poor as poor can be, and others have the right to help them on their own accord. It is not the governments role to become the babysitter of the masses. The Welfare system generally feeds the notion that people who are poor should stay poor. The welfare systems is mostly abused by those who are certainly capable to sustain themselves but choose not to as they have been conditioned to receive that monthly check from those who have worked their asses off. I have no pity or faith in the welfare system.
G100 why don’t YOU tell me what YOU really want to say instead of playing the questions game? Just come out and tell me how you feel about Socialism or Communism because to me they are the same thing. The only thing you have provided are questions without any real sense of information goading me for answers queuing up your next tirade of… questions?
-
For that matter you appear not to like listening either. For the THIRD time then and we'll see if it can peneterate through the morass of anti-welfare propaganda.
I DO NOT think anyone who defends welfare or universal health care is a Communist. I think to make that leap is frankly laughable. As laughable as anyone who says "Socialism or Communism because to me they are the same thing".
So by YOUR OWN (admittedly idealogically warped) Logic, "Was Churchill a communist or a socialist ? He was conservative. As a politician I am sure he was a socialist in certain aspects in backing government programs. “For that matter was Thatcher a communist or a socialist ?” As a politician I am sure she was a socialist in certain aspects in backing government programs." "Socialism or Communism because to me they are the same thing."
So you actually think Churchill and Thatcher and McCain and Obama are communists or have Communist tendancies. Riiiiiiiiiiight. Because according to you Communism and Socialism are the same thing.
Since you like questions so much here is another.
Would you have hauled Churchill and Thatcher and Obama and McCain before McCarthy's HUAC hearings for being communists and "anti-American" ? -
For the SECOND time then and we'll see if it can penetrate through the more-ass of communist propaganda.
I never said that anyone who defends welfare or universal health care is a Communist. Aren't these your words formulating some statement in order to defend... what? (I'm still waiting to find out) So you are saying that Churchill, Thatcher and McCain are all spotless and have or are going to make no mistakes? Would you G100 have hauled Churchill and Thatcher and Obama and McCain before McCarthy's HUAC hearings for being communists and "anti-American" ? (kind of a stupid question isn't it?) Are they not free to share with the public how they want to govern or rule? Can the person agree with one thing and at the same time disagree on another without lumping them into one categorization whole and complete like you are attempting to do with my words which you have re-arraigned to justify a terrible argument?
G100 why don't you come out and say something instead of continuing to ask the questions? Looking back through this conversation haven't I shared plenty of information and answered plenty of your questions while you continue to formulate and miss-statements on what I have been clear on? Have you not stayed in your pontificating quizzical closet postulating yourself as the only one who will ask the questions and yet answer to none perhaps this would be a better conversation as it just seems so damn one-sided in the sharing of opinions about ones personal political beliefs? Come on G100 I challenge you to out yourself… -
YOU are the one who quoted Churchill's disasterous speech comparing Attlees socialism, which included the NHS and welfare for all the returning WW2 troops, to totalitarianism and the Gestapo.
Why ? Did someone force you to quote that spurious comparison Churchill later regretted ? Or were you hoping that no-one would know the Histroy behind that particular speech ?
It's not me who's tried (and failed) to confalate universal health care & welfare with Socialism and BY YOUR OWN WORDS Communism. It was YOU who did that.
Now if you want to backtrack and admit that this was a gross oversimplification of the subject and that throwing Communist/Socialist labels at anyone, who defends welfare or a Universal Health system, was a bit of a foolish error like YOUR OWN WORDS admit here -"Can the person agree with one thing and at the same time disagree on another without lumping them into one categorization whole and complete"- then fine, I'm glad you finally agree.
But since I ALREADY said as much in my FIRST post why did it take you so long to understand it ?
You yourself have said Charchill, Thatcher, Obama & McCain have communist/socialist leanings. So bringing up McCarthy is stupid, why ? McCarthy was famous for finding excuses to label everyone in sight as Communists and you have been doing the same.
And what exactly ARE you trying to ask ? At least have a question before you whine about it. Besides I've already said THREE times what my position and belief is on Universal Health Care & Welfare. Are you REALLY so dense that I need to restate it a FOURTH time ????
Very well, expressing support for welfare or Universall Health care is NOT proof of Communism. Whereas camparing those who do to Communists and Socialists is facile propaganda.
Tell you what why don't you take a leaf out of McCarthy's book and actually ask the Question I'm sure you are dying to ask. I know you probably know it off by heart anyway but here is how it begins....
ARE YOU NOW OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN A MEMBER OF...
Go on. Ask me. I'll be more than happy to answer it. ;D -
You win..you commie bastage!
-
don't talk shit about McCarthy unless you know about Project Verona or that Communism killed way, way more people than Fascism/WWII. Or, furthermore, that Communism reduced a majority of the world's population to chattel status... yeah, socialism's chief foe (the US) deserves a free pass for most its evils given what it fought and defeated the worst thing to happen to planet Earth.
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