Cool News
Count The Shadows!! Doctor Dan And Other Britishers Check Out The Library & DOCTOR WHO 30.8!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
“Silence in the Library” was penned by Steven Moffatt, who takes over as the “Doctor Who” showrunner for the series’ 31st season in 2010. The reviews are promising!
“Doctor Dan” says:
DOCTOR WHO 4.8 – "Silence In The Library" (Part 1 of 2)
Writer: Steven Moffat
Director: Euros Lyn
Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna Noble), Col in Salmon (Dr. Moon), Alex Kingston (Professor River Song), Eve Newton (The Girl), Steve Pemberton (Strackman Lux), Mark Dexter (The Dad), Jessika Williams (Anita), Talulah Riley (Miss Evangelista), Harry Peacock (Proper Dave), O-T Fagbenle (Other Dave), Sarah Niles (Node 1) & Joshua Dallas (Node 2)
The Doctor and Donna visit The Library, a planet-sized depository of every book ever written. But why has it been abandoned for 100 years?
Writer Steven Moffat has been the subject of critical acclaim and fan adoration ever since his two-part episode The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances became highlights of season 1. Since then, his imaginative stories have become the most eagerly awaited instalments of Doctor Who, while also managing to avoid disappointing viewers. And I'm relieved to report that Silence In The Library (the first of a two-part serial) is every bit as intelligent, compelling, rich and creative as you could hope for. The only downside is that the 7 day wait till its conclusion.
Silence In The Library finds The Doctor (David Tennant) and Donna (Catherine Tate) arriving in The Library; planet-sized storage for every book ever written. It's a world of futuristic skyscrapers and museum-like interiors, but also totally devoid of readers. Although, after The Doctor uses a computer terminal to scan for life signs, he's confused to discover a million million life-forms are apparently swarming the planet.
As they try to solve the mystery of the abandoned Library, unnerved to find high-tech "Nodes" (with human faces) delivering ominous warnings to "count the shadows", an expedition of archaeologists in space suits later arrive – led by Professor River Song (Alex Kingston). Her team have come to investigate why The Library shut itself off from outside contact a century before, and The Doctor is intrigued when it becomes clear she knows him – but he hasn't met her, yet. Oh, the joys of time-travel...
Adding to the intrigue is The Girl (Eve Newton), who can apparently visit The Library just by closing her eyes, not realizing she has physicality in The Library as a floating surveillance camera. Her mental state is being assessed by Dr. Moon (Colin Salmon), who is clearly intrigued by her strange connection to this "other world" she visits. The plot thickens when The Doctor manages to connect to "her world" through her television (shades of his guiding role in Blink), and later discovers that swarm-like critters known as Vashta Nerada, who live in shadows, are closing in on them...
As you can tell from that brief summary of the episode, Steven Moffat once again proves he's the most gifted Doctor Who writer when it comes to creating stories and situations that draw an audience in. There's more for adults to chew on here, but while the deeper mysteries will likely go over the head of kids, he caters for younger audiences with the spine-tingling "stay out of the shadows" threat and the later appearance of a skeletal astronaut when the Vashta Nerada manage to strip one of River Song's team of his flesh and animate his corpse. Skeleton spacemen in a spooky library is pure Scooby Doo, so youngsters are well catered for.
With more depth and subtleties in the story, it's clear that everyone involved rises to the challenge. David Tennant looks extremely happy to guide us through a sci-fi story with more texture and imagination than usual, while Catherine Tate has really settled into the role of Donna now. Even if it does seem increasingly likely Donna's going to die in the finale, as there are more hints about a downbeat fate from River Song – who appears to be one of The Doctor's future companions. Now that Moffat's been confirmed as the new showrunner of Doctor Who in 2010, it'll be interesting to see if Alex Kingston indeed becomes a companion under his tenure.
The fact this is a two-parter did mean there were moments when the story was being kept in a holding patter to pad out time, but it wasn't too unnecessary and never boring. You could argue that the addition of "ghosting" into the story (where the recently-deceased can continue speaking to the living via comms for a short time), was little more than a writing flourish. But it did results in a few spooky sequences, and might have some greater baring on things in part 2 – who knows?
For now, it's safe to say this is a season 4 highlight and marvellous on every level that counts. It also seems extremely likely that next week's conclusion will trump it, as Silence In The Library was very much a scene-setting episode. The pay-off should be excellent – if only in how it explains River Song's relationship with The Doctor (does she know this Tenth incarnation, or another?) and exactly how The Girl fits into all this. She seems to be living on contemporary Earth, so how can she psychically connect to a distant-future alien planet? Or, as Dr. Moon hints near the end, is The Library the real world, and her home the Matrix-like illusion?
Overall, while not as perfect as last year's Blink (mainly because it's not self-contained or as fast-paced), this was fabulous entertainment that held me rapt for 45-minutes. The hope that this quality will become the norm once Steven Moffat takes over is just too exciting for words. Roll on Forest Of The Dead.
The Good
1. Steven Moffat's script; as engaging, imaginative, thought-provoking and humorous as we've come to expect.
2. Tennant and Tate; both excellent, with Tennant enjoying having a decent plot to work with, and Tate reigning in all traces of her Runaway Bride caricature now.
3. The two main intrigues of the episode (The Girl's link to The Library) and River Song's identity have me hooked to see the answers in part 2.
4. Some brilliant production design for the musky Library, the talking head Nodes, and awesome CGI for the futuristic cityscape of the Library itself. Oh, and the opening teaser was completely enchanting and magical stuff. Perfect.
5. Some great lines; like The Doctor admitting he points and laughs at archaeologists like River Song, being a time-traveller.
The Bad
1. If Moffat has one tiny "flaw", it's his propensity to use similar ideas to stir up chills. The Doctor communicating to The Girl through the TV was very much like Blink's video-tapes. The use of creepy catchphrases ("stay out of the shadows", etc) was also a bit overdone, particularly in the closing scene – when chilling phrases became a cacophony. And he's used that before in Empty Child/Doctor Dances and Blink.
2. The fact the BBC didn't show part 2 straight after (to make up for missing last week for Eurovision). A feature-length episode would have been perfect.
3. A bit too much reliance on the sonic screwdriver, again. A typical criticism of RTD episodes, but even The Moff isn't immune it seems. Ironically, the one thing the screwdriver couldn't do was open a simple door at one stage – because it was made of wood!
The Geeky
1. Many books in the library reference past episodes and are in-jokes: an operating manual for the TARDIS, "Origins Of The Universe" (Destiny Of The Daleks), "The French Revolution" (An Unearthly Child), "The Journal Of Impossible Things" (Human Nature/The Family Of Blood), "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" (author Douglas Adams wrote for Doctor Who), "Everest In The Easy Stages" (The Creature From The Pit), "Black Orchid" (a book seen in the same-titled Fifth Doctor serial).
2. Incredibly, this is the 50th episode of the revived series.
3. Steve Pemberton is the second member of The League Of Gentlemen comedy troupe to star in Doctor Who, after Mark Gatiss who appeared as Dr. Lazarus in The Lazarus Experiment. He has also starred alongside David Tennant in an episode of the revived Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased).
4. Steven Moffat is the only writer, other than Russell T. Davies, to have contributed scripts to all four seasons of the revived series.
Rating: 4 / 5
“Spud McSpud” says:
Hey Herc, Who's back - written by the Grand Moff himself!
**SPOILERS AHEAD - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!**
SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY begins with an intriguing teaser of a little girl under hypnosis, being spoken to by a psychiatrist (we think). We see from her perspective: in her mind, she is floating through a vast library, a world created with the universe's largest hard drive at its core: a planet just called The Library, a repository of ALL knowledge. Alone in this vast, dead place, the little girl is scared, standing in a room, when she is startled by something battering at the door. Something demanding to get in. Then the doors smash open --
It's the Doctor and Donna. In a little girl's mind! Credits roll.
Some very effective, gothic Olde English style scene-setting going on: the library is awash with old oak, and the Doctor is talking to a security camera (inlaid with dark oak, beautifully carved!) which, it seems, is directly linked to the little girl's mind. How are they connected? Dunno. The Doctor and Donna, through talking to Information Nodes (that features actual reconstructed dead flesh faces on them!), discover that the last message sent from the library was the generic EVENT HORIZON type - basically, don't come here, they're going to get us, they're here, "Count the shadows!" and then AAAAARGHHH - and then "Others are coming". The Others turn out to be an expeditionary force of archaeologists (nice nod back to IMPOSSIBLE PLANET/SATAN PIT - the Doctor being exasperated at this dumb, wondrous need to throw themselves into the unknown) who are coming to find out why The Library suddenly lost over 4,000 people over a hundred years previously. They are led by Prof River Song (the gorgeous Alex Kingston), and Steve Pemberton (League of Gentlemen - Pauline! Pens are friends!), whose family created The Library. After some topical stuff about not signing privacy agreements, The Doctor and Donna get into why they are here, and why the expedition are too. After some initial tantalisingly baffling dialogue with River, who not only knows the Doctor VERY well but seems to trust him with her life, things get under way - the Doctor works out that the stuff in the darkness is actually Vashta Nerada - "piranhas in the air", the dust in the sunlight that is actually a swarm of invisible creatures that can strip flesh from bone in seconds. They have to stay in the light (and no Vin Diesel to help them shiv the bad guys either) and find a way out. The first expendable redshirt in the group is offed pretty quickly, and we are intorduced to the gruesome concept of data ghosts - where the death of a person is extended as their consciousness is copied into their comlinks, so they are heard wondering why they can't see / hear / feel anything as their consciousness comes to terms with their deaths. And, no matter how scary man-eating shadows are, this is far, far more creepy. Downright unsettling.
After the notion of data ghosts, stuff kicks into high gear with redshirt Proper Dave (it's explained in the episode) getting infected with Vashta Nerada, and promptly growing extra shadows that can creep up and kill people. Somewhere around this point, the Doctor tells Donna he has to get them both back to the TARDIS - and promptly lies to her, teleporting her back to the TARDIS and himself staying at The Library. Cut to the TARDIS - and Donna screaming, as her transporter pattern distorts, fades - and she's gone!
We now get the terrifying visual of a skeleton in a spacesuit chasing people down corridors. Proper Dave has gone proper mental and is now trying to infect everyone else with Vashta Nerada, and then the Doctor - in the midst of another tantalising conversation with River about who she is, and River telling him that she can't tell him yet (she knows more about him, and has read a future diary/book about the Doctor that she forbids him to read - "By who's rules?" "Yours, Doctor") - realises that his sonic screwdriver should have told him that Donna's back in the TARDIS. It hasn't. He asks an Information Node where Donna is - and the Node has DONNA'S FACE!
Proper Dave is in hot pursuit. Donna is now presumed dead - "saved", the Node tells us. Back in the world of the little girl, her psychiatrist tells her that the real world is a lie, The Library is real, and everyone there is counting on HER to save them! Is she in the Matrix? Why does River Song have a copy sonic screwdriver (very old and battered looking) of her own, and why does she say the Doctor gave it to her? WHY won't she let the Doctor read the mysterious book (that looks a bit like a TARDIS on the cover)? Has he crossed his own timeline - a big no-no for a Time Lord? WHAT the hell is going on?!?!?
And in the trailer for next week: last shot - the Doctor flying through the Time Vortex BY HIMSELF - and wielding his sonic screwdriver...
THE GOOD: Some great mysteries being set up by the master, Grand Moff, here. The whole River Song / Doctor future mystery is brilliantly teased at, and could form some great future stuff. Is she the Rani? Is this like the ending to BLINK, where she's gone to the ends of the universe (River says she did!) with the Doctor, and he doesn't know it yet? The sonic screwdriver River had - is she telling the truth? She certainly knows how it works! The concepts of Information Nodes (bleurgh - real dead faces giving info?) and Data Ghosts (horribly effective, real stick-in-your-imagination-and-haunt-you-for-weeks stuff). The whole "are we in the little girl's imagination or is she in a fake reality?" dichotomy Moff hints at. The way the psychiatrist, Doctor Moon, looks a little like Morpheus when he tells the little girl that her world is fake and The Library is real. The future diary the Doctor seems to have told River not to reveal to himself. The skeleton in a spacesuit. The fantastic old oak inlaid security camera - British Library circa year 5,000 AD! The whole foreboding feel to this fantastically creepy, intelligent tease of the episode! Alex Kingston!!!
THE BAD: A severe case of LOST syndrome for the characters' motivation. In LOST, it took almost four seasons for someone to ask someone else who knew (Locke asking Ben) how the smoke monster worked. It would have been the first thing anyone asked, but to suit the plot, everyone ignored it until the end of Season 3 / beginning of Season 4. Same thing happens here: River is acting very hurt at the Doctor not recognising her, yet seemed to expect it. She forbids him from reading a book she carries, and says he told her himself not to allow his younger self to read it. She has a sonic screwdriver, tells him he gave it to her, and that's that. Does anyone else think the Doctor might have sat down and said "Right, before we go any further, you need to tell me EVERYTHING you can tell me about who you are to me and what this has to do with you sending me a distress signal via psychic paper!". All of this is left to the second part, presumably as part of whole tease that this episode is. But it does seem to be a little contrived...
Oh, and a lot of the first part of this episode feels suspiciously like filler instead of essential atmosphere and creating the world of the episode. I think maybe Moffat is one of the writers who writes best in the pressure cooker of a single episode (BLINK / GIRL IN THE FIREPLACE) than he does in the space of two eps (EMPTY CHILD / DOCTOR DANCES and this one). Maybe this would have made a tighter, more scary and urgent one-parter than a slightly slow-starting first of two-parter - but next week will tell us whether or not this two-ep style was needed for this story, or whether its more filler. Very minor gripes, though, for easily the scariest story this season. Moffat scores again - but it's not quite BLINK. Still the best so far in Season 4!
If you use this, call me... SPUD McSPUD, scourge of the Medusa Cascade!
“DJ Bollocks” says:
Evening....
Oh the joy.... the rapture..... Moffatt is back....
It would be predictable to list the plaudits , a Doctory love in... but this is why I watch Doctor Who. I genuinely cheered in an unlike me fanboyish way when I heard the news that Moffatt was going to be taking over Doctor Who and for any doubters (still ?) this and the Doctor Who Confidential that followed afterwards was proof if proof be needed why this man will make this series so much better than what has preceeded it.
As a lover of many programmes but particularly The Wire tonight's episodes had all the things I love about Baltimore's finest...The use of language, fantastic imagery, intruiging plotlines, brilliant performances - a genuine sense of fear and forboding and a story that is so simplistic and yet so moreish that for the first time this series I'm desperate for next Saturday.
Who is Alex Kingston's character ?
How does she know the Doctor and when will we see those stories ?
Is Donna dead (of course not) but how will she have survived ?
and the little girl and the psychiatrist - what's that all about ?
This is the Doctor Who they were trying to do with Sylvester McCoy but failed because anyone had long since stopped caring... See it download it immerse yourself in it - if you thought Blink was good this has the potential to be even better.
And maybe you'll sleep with the light on tonight....
From The Guy Who Wrote
The Making of Star Wars
And The Guy Who Wrote
Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays!!
Five Discs Of Blu-ray Blade Runner: $19.95!!
Summer Blu-ray Blowout!!
Writer: Steven Moffat
Director: Euros Lyn
Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna Noble), Col in Salmon (Dr. Moon), Alex Kingston (Professor River Song), Eve Newton (The Girl), Steve Pemberton (Strackman Lux), Mark Dexter (The Dad), Jessika Williams (Anita), Talulah Riley (Miss Evangelista), Harry Peacock (Proper Dave), O-T Fagbenle (Other Dave), Sarah Niles (Node 1) & Joshua Dallas (Node 2)
The Doctor and Donna visit The Library, a planet-sized depository of every book ever written. But why has it been abandoned for 100 years?
Writer Steven Moffat has been the subject of critical acclaim and fan adoration ever since his two-part episode The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances became highlights of season 1. Since then, his imaginative stories have become the most eagerly awaited instalments of Doctor Who, while also managing to avoid disappointing viewers. And I'm relieved to report that Silence In The Library (the first of a two-part serial) is every bit as intelligent, compelling, rich and creative as you could hope for. The only downside is that the 7 day wait till its conclusion.
Silence In The Library finds The Doctor (David Tennant) and Donna (Catherine Tate) arriving in The Library; planet-sized storage for every book ever written. It's a world of futuristic skyscrapers and museum-like interiors, but also totally devoid of readers. Although, after The Doctor uses a computer terminal to scan for life signs, he's confused to discover a million million life-forms are apparently swarming the planet.
As they try to solve the mystery of the abandoned Library, unnerved to find high-tech "Nodes" (with human faces) delivering ominous warnings to "count the shadows", an expedition of archaeologists in space suits later arrive – led by Professor River Song (Alex Kingston). Her team have come to investigate why The Library shut itself off from outside contact a century before, and The Doctor is intrigued when it becomes clear she knows him – but he hasn't met her, yet. Oh, the joys of time-travel...
Adding to the intrigue is The Girl (Eve Newton), who can apparently visit The Library just by closing her eyes, not realizing she has physicality in The Library as a floating surveillance camera. Her mental state is being assessed by Dr. Moon (Colin Salmon), who is clearly intrigued by her strange connection to this "other world" she visits. The plot thickens when The Doctor manages to connect to "her world" through her television (shades of his guiding role in Blink), and later discovers that swarm-like critters known as Vashta Nerada, who live in shadows, are closing in on them...
As you can tell from that brief summary of the episode, Steven Moffat once again proves he's the most gifted Doctor Who writer when it comes to creating stories and situations that draw an audience in. There's more for adults to chew on here, but while the deeper mysteries will likely go over the head of kids, he caters for younger audiences with the spine-tingling "stay out of the shadows" threat and the later appearance of a skeletal astronaut when the Vashta Nerada manage to strip one of River Song's team of his flesh and animate his corpse. Skeleton spacemen in a spooky library is pure Scooby Doo, so youngsters are well catered for.
With more depth and subtleties in the story, it's clear that everyone involved rises to the challenge. David Tennant looks extremely happy to guide us through a sci-fi story with more texture and imagination than usual, while Catherine Tate has really settled into the role of Donna now. Even if it does seem increasingly likely Donna's going to die in the finale, as there are more hints about a downbeat fate from River Song – who appears to be one of The Doctor's future companions. Now that Moffat's been confirmed as the new showrunner of Doctor Who in 2010, it'll be interesting to see if Alex Kingston indeed becomes a companion under his tenure.
The fact this is a two-parter did mean there were moments when the story was being kept in a holding patter to pad out time, but it wasn't too unnecessary and never boring. You could argue that the addition of "ghosting" into the story (where the recently-deceased can continue speaking to the living via comms for a short time), was little more than a writing flourish. But it did results in a few spooky sequences, and might have some greater baring on things in part 2 – who knows?
For now, it's safe to say this is a season 4 highlight and marvellous on every level that counts. It also seems extremely likely that next week's conclusion will trump it, as Silence In The Library was very much a scene-setting episode. The pay-off should be excellent – if only in how it explains River Song's relationship with The Doctor (does she know this Tenth incarnation, or another?) and exactly how The Girl fits into all this. She seems to be living on contemporary Earth, so how can she psychically connect to a distant-future alien planet? Or, as Dr. Moon hints near the end, is The Library the real world, and her home the Matrix-like illusion?
Overall, while not as perfect as last year's Blink (mainly because it's not self-contained or as fast-paced), this was fabulous entertainment that held me rapt for 45-minutes. The hope that this quality will become the norm once Steven Moffat takes over is just too exciting for words. Roll on Forest Of The Dead.
The Good
1. Steven Moffat's script; as engaging, imaginative, thought-provoking and humorous as we've come to expect.
2. Tennant and Tate; both excellent, with Tennant enjoying having a decent plot to work with, and Tate reigning in all traces of her Runaway Bride caricature now.
3. The two main intrigues of the episode (The Girl's link to The Library) and River Song's identity have me hooked to see the answers in part 2.
4. Some brilliant production design for the musky Library, the talking head Nodes, and awesome CGI for the futuristic cityscape of the Library itself. Oh, and the opening teaser was completely enchanting and magical stuff. Perfect.
5. Some great lines; like The Doctor admitting he points and laughs at archaeologists like River Song, being a time-traveller.
The Bad
1. If Moffat has one tiny "flaw", it's his propensity to use similar ideas to stir up chills. The Doctor communicating to The Girl through the TV was very much like Blink's video-tapes. The use of creepy catchphrases ("stay out of the shadows", etc) was also a bit overdone, particularly in the closing scene – when chilling phrases became a cacophony. And he's used that before in Empty Child/Doctor Dances and Blink.
2. The fact the BBC didn't show part 2 straight after (to make up for missing last week for Eurovision). A feature-length episode would have been perfect.
3. A bit too much reliance on the sonic screwdriver, again. A typical criticism of RTD episodes, but even The Moff isn't immune it seems. Ironically, the one thing the screwdriver couldn't do was open a simple door at one stage – because it was made of wood!
The Geeky
1. Many books in the library reference past episodes and are in-jokes: an operating manual for the TARDIS, "Origins Of The Universe" (Destiny Of The Daleks), "The French Revolution" (An Unearthly Child), "The Journal Of Impossible Things" (Human Nature/The Family Of Blood), "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" (author Douglas Adams wrote for Doctor Who), "Everest In The Easy Stages" (The Creature From The Pit), "Black Orchid" (a book seen in the same-titled Fifth Doctor serial).
2. Incredibly, this is the 50th episode of the revived series.
3. Steve Pemberton is the second member of The League Of Gentlemen comedy troupe to star in Doctor Who, after Mark Gatiss who appeared as Dr. Lazarus in The Lazarus Experiment. He has also starred alongside David Tennant in an episode of the revived Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased).
4. Steven Moffat is the only writer, other than Russell T. Davies, to have contributed scripts to all four seasons of the revived series.
Rating: 4 / 5
**SPOILERS AHEAD - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!**
SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY begins with an intriguing teaser of a little girl under hypnosis, being spoken to by a psychiatrist (we think). We see from her perspective: in her mind, she is floating through a vast library, a world created with the universe's largest hard drive at its core: a planet just called The Library, a repository of ALL knowledge. Alone in this vast, dead place, the little girl is scared, standing in a room, when she is startled by something battering at the door. Something demanding to get in. Then the doors smash open --
It's the Doctor and Donna. In a little girl's mind! Credits roll.
Some very effective, gothic Olde English style scene-setting going on: the library is awash with old oak, and the Doctor is talking to a security camera (inlaid with dark oak, beautifully carved!) which, it seems, is directly linked to the little girl's mind. How are they connected? Dunno. The Doctor and Donna, through talking to Information Nodes (that features actual reconstructed dead flesh faces on them!), discover that the last message sent from the library was the generic EVENT HORIZON type - basically, don't come here, they're going to get us, they're here, "Count the shadows!" and then AAAAARGHHH - and then "Others are coming". The Others turn out to be an expeditionary force of archaeologists (nice nod back to IMPOSSIBLE PLANET/SATAN PIT - the Doctor being exasperated at this dumb, wondrous need to throw themselves into the unknown) who are coming to find out why The Library suddenly lost over 4,000 people over a hundred years previously. They are led by Prof River Song (the gorgeous Alex Kingston), and Steve Pemberton (League of Gentlemen - Pauline! Pens are friends!), whose family created The Library. After some topical stuff about not signing privacy agreements, The Doctor and Donna get into why they are here, and why the expedition are too. After some initial tantalisingly baffling dialogue with River, who not only knows the Doctor VERY well but seems to trust him with her life, things get under way - the Doctor works out that the stuff in the darkness is actually Vashta Nerada - "piranhas in the air", the dust in the sunlight that is actually a swarm of invisible creatures that can strip flesh from bone in seconds. They have to stay in the light (and no Vin Diesel to help them shiv the bad guys either) and find a way out. The first expendable redshirt in the group is offed pretty quickly, and we are intorduced to the gruesome concept of data ghosts - where the death of a person is extended as their consciousness is copied into their comlinks, so they are heard wondering why they can't see / hear / feel anything as their consciousness comes to terms with their deaths. And, no matter how scary man-eating shadows are, this is far, far more creepy. Downright unsettling.
After the notion of data ghosts, stuff kicks into high gear with redshirt Proper Dave (it's explained in the episode) getting infected with Vashta Nerada, and promptly growing extra shadows that can creep up and kill people. Somewhere around this point, the Doctor tells Donna he has to get them both back to the TARDIS - and promptly lies to her, teleporting her back to the TARDIS and himself staying at The Library. Cut to the TARDIS - and Donna screaming, as her transporter pattern distorts, fades - and she's gone!
We now get the terrifying visual of a skeleton in a spacesuit chasing people down corridors. Proper Dave has gone proper mental and is now trying to infect everyone else with Vashta Nerada, and then the Doctor - in the midst of another tantalising conversation with River about who she is, and River telling him that she can't tell him yet (she knows more about him, and has read a future diary/book about the Doctor that she forbids him to read - "By who's rules?" "Yours, Doctor") - realises that his sonic screwdriver should have told him that Donna's back in the TARDIS. It hasn't. He asks an Information Node where Donna is - and the Node has DONNA'S FACE!
Proper Dave is in hot pursuit. Donna is now presumed dead - "saved", the Node tells us. Back in the world of the little girl, her psychiatrist tells her that the real world is a lie, The Library is real, and everyone there is counting on HER to save them! Is she in the Matrix? Why does River Song have a copy sonic screwdriver (very old and battered looking) of her own, and why does she say the Doctor gave it to her? WHY won't she let the Doctor read the mysterious book (that looks a bit like a TARDIS on the cover)? Has he crossed his own timeline - a big no-no for a Time Lord? WHAT the hell is going on?!?!?
And in the trailer for next week: last shot - the Doctor flying through the Time Vortex BY HIMSELF - and wielding his sonic screwdriver...
THE GOOD: Some great mysteries being set up by the master, Grand Moff, here. The whole River Song / Doctor future mystery is brilliantly teased at, and could form some great future stuff. Is she the Rani? Is this like the ending to BLINK, where she's gone to the ends of the universe (River says she did!) with the Doctor, and he doesn't know it yet? The sonic screwdriver River had - is she telling the truth? She certainly knows how it works! The concepts of Information Nodes (bleurgh - real dead faces giving info?) and Data Ghosts (horribly effective, real stick-in-your-imagination-and-haunt-you-for-weeks stuff). The whole "are we in the little girl's imagination or is she in a fake reality?" dichotomy Moff hints at. The way the psychiatrist, Doctor Moon, looks a little like Morpheus when he tells the little girl that her world is fake and The Library is real. The future diary the Doctor seems to have told River not to reveal to himself. The skeleton in a spacesuit. The fantastic old oak inlaid security camera - British Library circa year 5,000 AD! The whole foreboding feel to this fantastically creepy, intelligent tease of the episode! Alex Kingston!!!
THE BAD: A severe case of LOST syndrome for the characters' motivation. In LOST, it took almost four seasons for someone to ask someone else who knew (Locke asking Ben) how the smoke monster worked. It would have been the first thing anyone asked, but to suit the plot, everyone ignored it until the end of Season 3 / beginning of Season 4. Same thing happens here: River is acting very hurt at the Doctor not recognising her, yet seemed to expect it. She forbids him from reading a book she carries, and says he told her himself not to allow his younger self to read it. She has a sonic screwdriver, tells him he gave it to her, and that's that. Does anyone else think the Doctor might have sat down and said "Right, before we go any further, you need to tell me EVERYTHING you can tell me about who you are to me and what this has to do with you sending me a distress signal via psychic paper!". All of this is left to the second part, presumably as part of whole tease that this episode is. But it does seem to be a little contrived...
Oh, and a lot of the first part of this episode feels suspiciously like filler instead of essential atmosphere and creating the world of the episode. I think maybe Moffat is one of the writers who writes best in the pressure cooker of a single episode (BLINK / GIRL IN THE FIREPLACE) than he does in the space of two eps (EMPTY CHILD / DOCTOR DANCES and this one). Maybe this would have made a tighter, more scary and urgent one-parter than a slightly slow-starting first of two-parter - but next week will tell us whether or not this two-ep style was needed for this story, or whether its more filler. Very minor gripes, though, for easily the scariest story this season. Moffat scores again - but it's not quite BLINK. Still the best so far in Season 4!
If you use this, call me... SPUD McSPUD, scourge of the Medusa Cascade!
Oh the joy.... the rapture..... Moffatt is back....
It would be predictable to list the plaudits , a Doctory love in... but this is why I watch Doctor Who. I genuinely cheered in an unlike me fanboyish way when I heard the news that Moffatt was going to be taking over Doctor Who and for any doubters (still ?) this and the Doctor Who Confidential that followed afterwards was proof if proof be needed why this man will make this series so much better than what has preceeded it.
As a lover of many programmes but particularly The Wire tonight's episodes had all the things I love about Baltimore's finest...The use of language, fantastic imagery, intruiging plotlines, brilliant performances - a genuine sense of fear and forboding and a story that is so simplistic and yet so moreish that for the first time this series I'm desperate for next Saturday.
Who is Alex Kingston's character ?
How does she know the Doctor and when will we see those stories ?
Is Donna dead (of course not) but how will she have survived ?
and the little girl and the psychiatrist - what's that all about ?
This is the Doctor Who they were trying to do with Sylvester McCoy but failed because anyone had long since stopped caring... See it download it immerse yourself in it - if you thought Blink was good this has the potential to be even better.
And maybe you'll sleep with the light on tonight....
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+ Expand All
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But I fear for Donna, whats going to happen to her in the future and who is River Song, and what is she to the Doctor in the future?
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Yeah!
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Yes, it was.
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Worse than PARTNERS IN CRIME? Worse than BOOM TOWN? Worse than ANYTHING ELSE starring bloody Slitheen? Worse than FEAR HER?
Was it worse than those? No, it wasn't. Was it as good as BLINK? Not quite. But it's the best in a mediocre season so far.
what exactly are you looking for in a decent new Who ep, and why wasn't it there in LIBRARY? What was missing for you? -
The Dalek in the background? No? Look again!!!
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This one seemed like RTD gave Moffatt a test to write a big epic entertaining two-parter, a series staple rather than the more intense, exclusive, serious episodes he's written in the past. And I think it was a fine mix of the two. It bodes well for what will happen when it's Moffatt writing every other episode. No, we won't get Blink every week, but I'd be perfectly happy if there were double the number of stories like this. Not only was it entertaining in that passing fashion RTD can manage just fine, it was intriguing. I want to know what the library really is, I want to know if Donna's going to die, I want to know if River Song is a future companion or some sort of distant relative (great-great-granchild of the Doctor's Daughter, perhaps?), and I REALLY want to know what's in the Tardis-looking book. Who doesn't want the Doctor to give into the temptation, open a page at random and find Rose staring off the page at him once more...
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Hopefully the shape of things to come. This was everything that Dr Who should be scary ,clever and witty. River Song was a great character. Loved it truly amazing!!
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No way was this one of the worst ever episodes - it was one of the best!
Good old Stephen Moffat, on form as ever. Step aside RTD and let him take over for good!
Lets hope Alex Kingston has a recurring role. BTW I loved the fact that they referred to knowledge of the future as 'spoilers'. May well have been a very loose reference to this site.
Could the little girl actually be Alex Kingston's character? No idea WTF was going on in those scenes, lets hope we find out next week. -
He's just trolling. He's probably never even watched an episode, let alone this one. As soon as someone posts another topic above this one he'll be off there to try and rile people up.
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ANSWER:
Writing, Characters, Music, Story, Special Effects, Dialogue and Pacing. That episode had none of those things. Yes, on the surface it may have appeared to have a few of these things but in reality, it didn't. It was shit. It was the 50th episode of the new shit Dr Who. The 50th SHIT EPISODE.
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A SKELETON WEARING A SPACE SUIT.
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Who in their right mind would watch 50 episodes of something they thought was shit?
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Yep, he's a troll. Never understood the point of trolling.
A G, if new Who is not for you, there must be a thousand other SF shows you could watch and MAYBE enjoy. I'm not going to wailk on you for not enjoying the odd episode of Who - I myself have been known to criticise new Who. At length. Great, great length.
But saying this episode was shit? There are so many ways to refute this and shoot you down that I really don't know where to start. But as you're trolling, what's the point? I'll let the next couple of hundred posters on this TB explain why the episode was great and you're wrong, and I'll sit here laughing and drinking a beer.
This episode, shit? You couldn't be more wrong. -
Ah, I get it. I think A G is one of those Colin Baker apologists who's never quite forgiven the BBC for cancelling the show, and will forever covet their DVD of Ghost Light, the story that more than any other typified everything that had gone wrong with Doctor Who in the 1980s under John Nathan Turner's suicidally overlong reign. Old Who died with Caves of Androzani, and that was a last gasp after a season and a half of shit. New Who is like having Jon Pertwee back again. There's this sense that anything can happen and the series can go anywhere. If we're lucky, we may just get another Tom Baker era under Moffatt's era. Here's hoping!
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By "Tom Baker era" I didn't mean literally.
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Stephen Moffat continues his one man mission to scare the shit out of a generation with much style. This episode gripped like wet rope from the outset and introduces a the best "new Who" so far with the character played by Alex Kingston (mucho chemistry with Tennant). Seriously creepy, especially Donnas return to the tardis. Notice a lack of spoilers. This is a valid point obviously lost on the twats writing the reviews. When you see this episode you will realise this point. Now how many "other daves" will come into cyberspace. Hope part two delivers.(its Getting ominous re Donnas fate and how come Alex Kingston was so shit when she was on ER. )Brilliant Episode.
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and part two is next week.
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Seriously all you do is complain, this was brilliant! Not sure what you are after but obviously Who isn't it.
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After Jekyll i was worried about Moffat taking over... No longer. If the second part lives up to the first, this will be the best story Who i've ever seen (and believe me, i've seen them i all - and read them all as a child. Who would have thought this excellence could have come from such a poor season. Looking forward to more Moffat
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now i like moffats work, im happy he's taken over from rtd. dont get me wrong moffats work is far superior to rtd. but this ep was somewhat lacking. this was not a brilliant episode ( as ive come to expect from moffat) but average fair. yes some interesting hooks. but really hasn't drawn me in. im hoping the 2nd part of this adds a lot more
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That is their right and thier opinion. i have been watching dr who all of my life. I didnt follow all the ins and outs of it like the radio stuff or on the net. But if i think that dr who episode is shit. that is my right to think that. I thought that tonights ep was weak. I have followed Dr whos return since ecclestone. The great thing about the old dr who was that they had limited budgets. it is amazing what you can do with a limited amount of money and a huge imagination. The best dr who ep was in my opinion the one with micheal rod. that had great acting. the way he looks normal and talk normal, then he begins to undress. great stuff. and his female victim had no idea. Great stuff.
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Oy-oi!!! I posted a spoiler warning above my fucking review! How much more of a warning do you need than **SPOILERS AHEAD - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!** posted at the top of the review?!?
Jeez, you just can't please some people... -
and her stuff about the darkness spreading and nothing stopping it was chlling in the promo. Donna Noble is gonna die and all those who complained about tate, will be eating there words.....
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The Moff delivered again. I loved the way it used the old-fashioned fear of the dark to top effect. I imagine a fair number of kiddies (and maybe adults) went to bed with the night-light on tonight. But still maybe dreamt about creepy moving shadows and skeletons.I loved the mystery of it all. Who is River Song? How does she know the Doctor? Who's the little girl? How come they're in her mind? Is Dr Moon a goodie or a baddie? Or an other?All these questions will be answered next week.Ok, in truth I don't know if they will all be answered. But if they are then Steven Moffat is a fupping genius and long may he rule over Who.
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The basic story lines of Tintin are kind of Indiana Jones light and don't have any of the eerie elements of a typical Moffat Who episode. So it'll be interesting to see how they'll make it in any way interesting...
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Black Orchid was also the first character Neil Gaiman wrote for DC Comics.
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Nice creep factor. Sooooo...Donna? And who is River? I am intrigued.
Fucking no preview though. :P -
You could put "I am a twat and I know I am a Twat" at the start of your review. It doesn't make you any less of a twat. What is the point of spoilers. This will be read either by someone who has watched the episode and does not need a recap or by someonewho may want to see the episode. Anyone reading it who does not want to see it well they are jusy there to be talkback halfwits stirring trouble. Again DID YOU ACTUALLY GET A KEY POINT ABOUT THIS EPISODE. .Why can't people just review Doctor Who without recapping everything in minute detail. It does not happen anywere else on aicn only when my countrymen decide there is some sort of recall competetion going on. Try writing with a bit of skill. .Try writing with an attempt at a memorable phrase otherwise whats the point. Anyway forgot to say this episode was as brilliantly directed as it was writen.
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Possible the next Doctor???
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So I take it I'll be reading YOUR review next week, showing me how it's done? Jeez. The point of the bit saying SPOILERS AHEAD is so you can then scroll down the page until the next reviewer's name appears, and maybe then their review will meet with your witheringly scathing (yet strangely easy for me to ignore) standards. Don't like the way I write? I don't care. It's not my finest review, given, but then I was writing straight after the ep, and wanted to get my initial thoughts out on screen. I'm not trying for a Pulitzer. Secondly, the spoiler warning is there for a reason - if you don't want to be spoiled, don't read on. If you do, and then you complain about it, fuck you - that what the spoiler ewarning is there for! This is precisely why I DIDN'T complain after reading a lot of season 4 finale spoilers on the LOST TB the yesterday - BECAUSE I EXPECTED THEM! This is not exactly unexpected. I mean, shit, even SFX magazine's threads post spoilers. If you don't like them, go find some site elsewhere that DOESN'T post spoilers. AICN talkbacks don't play nice. That's why most of us who post on here enjoy it so much. For those of a more genteel disposition, yourself included, there is always the official BBC WHO site. Enjoy, and don't forget to make your own trailer too!
As for the key point in the episode, the writers are ALWAYS actively trying to piss off the rabid fanboys, while simultaneously not realising that we are the reason their precious show has survived so fucking long - BECAUSE THE REAL FANS DEMANDED IT! It's called "biting the hand that feeds you", and it's a Beeb/WHO staple. -
Last time Moffat tried to scare the kids with gargoyles - this time he's gone one better by saying they SHOULD be afraid of the dark. Brilliant stuff. Can't wait for next week, for the future eps with Billie and the daleks, for Moffat to take over full time and give us quality like this every week.... Things are looking good for Who.
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Sounds a little like that short story....
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The only thing that could have made this better woul have been to have used Ecclestone and Piper instead of Tennant and Tate, but other than that, it was absolutely brilliant.
Gebnius.
Seriously a work of absolute genius. Not quite Blink, but close.
I can't wait for the Stephen Moffat era of Doctor Who. -
From the trailer last week I was doubting that this would be any good. Scary shadows seems kind of done before. However, the addition of the little girl put a whole other layer on it. Really really good.The faces on the librarian machines was a bit cheesy but it was made up for with Donna. It seems clear that by "saving" people the library is digitizing them into the "largest hard drive ever built."
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Also, it was the last purely historical episode. I'd love to see a return to that every now and then, instead of aliens in every part of Earth history.
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That was, by far, the CREEPIEST episode of Doctor Who I've ever fucking seen!
Although there was one humorous thought that crossed my mind near the end:
"I hate phantom spaceman!" -
Alex Kingston is still tasty and hopefully her little plot line will mean we will see more of her in the future.
I see aintitcool keeps up with The Who but what is its popularity like in america? Does it get many viewers or do all the actual fans just download it? -
Seriously Herc-- You have to stop printing the reviews that basically recap the entire episode and give away all the plot twists and fine points. That's not a review. It ruins the show for anyone who doesn't watch it first, which includes a lot of Americans.
And to the reviewers: Don't list everything that happens in an episode. Don't give away names, plot points, or anything of the sort. Speak in general terms, and if you're going to spoil the show, then start your review with a HUGE spoiler tag. -
I do appreciate that you put one there. Mind you, I watch the episode before coming to AICN, but still, the reviews are practically the fucking script for the episode! Tone it down, guys, and hold back SOME details, would ya?
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The show does all right. We like our sci-fi a bit darker and more serious here in the US lately. For all it's camp, Star Trek took on some headdy issues. Also note the resurgance of the excedingly serioius Battlestar Galactica and the gut-punching Lost. When a show aims more for "fun" - like Stargate or Heros - the serious sci-fi geeks tend to slag on it. The Doctor has a very strong cult following over here. The season 4 opening drew very strong numbers for Sci-fi where it is between Sarah Jane at 8 and Galactica at 10. I know many people who don't watch it on Sci-fi but get the DVD collections or watch online via Netflix.
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I mean, I make it a habit to not even LOOK at AICN until after I've watched the new episodes of BSG, LOST, Doctor Who, Torchwood (as if we ever get Torchwood talkbacks), and WEEDS (again, as if we ever get...)
The reviewers are more like scoopers. I appreciate their contribution, but Herc and company could edit the submissions a bit (you know, doing the job of a any good editor for a review) and spare the audience the major spoilers.
Here's what I consider components of a "review" versus a "retelling" :
1. Be general. Be vague.
2. No major plot revelations. (Esp. deaths!)
3. No answers to puzzles or mysteries!!!
4. No specific names outside of what's in the credits.
5. DO tell us the general 'feel' of the show.
6. DO tell us if you thought it was good writing.
7. DO tell us if the special effects are decent.
8. DO tell us the basic synopsis, without specific story elements as the develop.
9. DO NOT give us a play-by-play commentary!
10. DO tease us! ("You won't believe the ending") without being specific ("because [major character] dies!!!")
11. Don't tell us what you didn't like in OTHER episodes. Tell us what you thought of THIS episode.
12. If you do spoil it, give SPOILER WARNINGS in the title, and before the actual spoilers themselves. Consider INVISO TEXT.
Again, I appreciate the reviews and contributions, but revealing major plot points isn't a review, and it does ruin the fun for people who don't avert their eyes before seeing your spoilers, no matter how small they may be. -
Sorry guys. My HTML apparently failed me in the middle of the piece above. THAT is why I use numbers in my lists! It's a second line of defense when HTML fails me.
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So just how is Doctor Riversong tied to Rose?
I'm assuming that the brief flash of Rose on the Tardis monitor was related to what Riversong said.
I tried to anagram Riversong but had RVING left after removing Rose.
She seems VERY intimate with the Doctor. Since the whole Donna thing was to exclude the deepening intimacy of both Rose and Martha I doubt she would be a new lover/companion.
Where did she find a Doctor diary?
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C'mon. Lost is a fine DRAMA with a touch of scifi.
Fact is the erratic writing destroyed the whole planned deep scifi side.
Unlike say Firefly. -
Everything will use the Apple slim aluminum keyboard! Not that I'm complaining. I have one myself, and I love it.
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I think the planet downloaded a small amt of people to its data core even though their bodies got consumed. The little girl and the psychatrist are the processor core perhaps.
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Mixed martial arts with Kimbo Slice's bout still not on yet. Pretty good, IMO.
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who is the only tv show aicn features 'reviews' for. and herc does it because who is the only show he covers that america doesnt see first, so he CAN feature reviews, and thats lucky for him since the nature of the show prohibits the idea of posting hidden spoilers like he does for other shows - theres rarely a story arc to excite people over or a surprising romantic moment or someone dies, and he probably doesnt have the network to find anything out anyway since uk shows work out of broomcupboards. and if you dont want to read these reviews, which arent reviews but synopses, then... dont open the article? what exactly is it you expect to see here? this is literally like the joke about the man with the arm that hurts when he lifts it a certain way and the doctor says so stop doing it. i can only imagine the way YOU see the role of an aicn article on dr who is for herc to post a detail lifted from a uk listings site like 'the dr travels to the planet of oojar' and leave it there as a place for people to post. except thats not what aicn is for in the first place and youd just get people posting synopses there anyway.
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Dude, the people on Lost *spoiler* travel through time and space, have been in an electromagnetic hatch, are doing medical research on fertility, get visits by ghosts, and may have very well moved an island via wormhole. Oh, and it may or may not be ruled by some dead guys. That's big, frothy sci-fi goodness.
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I don't think there was any "filler" to pad it for a 2 parter. Oh, and, a great cliffhanger. It was PERFECT!!!! The only episode that will be even more PERFECT is........... next week's episode!!!!
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would that be season 32? or 2009? unless they're taking a year long break? if this is season 30, it should be over in like a month, right? it's usually 12 or 13 episodes..
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May 31, 2008 11:52:31 PM CDT
THANK GOD FOR YOUTUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =0)
by the marquis de side 3
just watched the episode. amazing stuff. can't wait until Moffat takes over from RTD. get ready for some really creepy old school 70s style WHO guys...
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And learn to write a fucking review, or go for your real calling of shelf stacking at walmart.
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... is that it rewards you for paying attention and using your imagination. There is such wonderful tension because he steadily drops hints of where the story is going, enough that you can figure out most of it a couple of steps before the main characters do, but he holds back just enough that parts of it don't quite gel in the imagination until the perfect moment ... startling the viewer not such a random shock but with an "of course, why didn't I see that coming?!". It's so respectful of the viewer. The data ghosting is a wonderful example ... foreshadowing the tech I can see will almost certainly be core to part 2. Then we have this whole second bonus plot line about his possible future companion and her "book of spoilers" fitting into the whole library theme. This is the sort of story that (for me at least) is just such a complete joy to watch.
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..funny,last week I was saying to a fellow geek about the fact that we get very little intricate, mind-bending stories from WHO as, I felt, the sat night slot and the success with the general public (kids in particular) meant most eps had to have big scary monsters have lots of running. The great premise of the show (practically immortal being travelling through space/time) seems to be rarely tapped into. Moffatt at least make an effort to explore this and I revelled in the way River Song seems to know the Doc-think about it, it is truely tables turned (someone else has the info on future events-not him). We should see more of this, all these visits to earth (and other worlds) over centuries should produce more challenging stories. More please!!!
offatt -
I was ready to think it average because of the trailers showing the 'stay out of the shadows' which I thought was going to be a bit cliched, but Moffat surprised again.My only problem with this one is the CONSTANT repeating of lines: The Doctor says 'a million, million' one time too many and the episode ended with a 'who turned out the lights' and 'Donna Noble is no longer in the Library' being repeated for FAR too long before the 'sting' kicked in.
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I saw some people complaining that there was no preview. What do they mean by preview? No trailer for next week's episode? Methinks they perhaps shouldn't have switched off the TV as soon as the end music begins. For some reason they always put the trailers for second parters AFTER the credits instead of before.
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That is all.
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Well, I'm rather distressed by the vulgarity of the British populace! Eleven million watch Britain's Got Talent rather than tune in for tip-top drama??????? What the f*ck - poor old Who has dropped out of the top twenty for the first time since it's return. (Even after all of those trailers!)
I now live in fear that ITV have a plan to DESTROY Doctor Who by launching some tawdry, vile, Sharon Osborne / Piers Fatboy lead talent show starring nutters and people who can do back flips (whooooooaaaa).
As to last night's episode, found the pace was just right, not too manic and you could clearly see that David and Catherine were enjoying the added depth. Quite obviously River Song is a future companion, found the Doctor a bit thick here. Why didn't he twig? Surely he'd be waving his arms about and screaming 'DON'T TELL ME!'
Alex KIngston was lovely though, I'm thinking a younger actress will portray her character at some point.
Overall excellent, and the effects of the library were superb. Still, a real shame that the viewers desserted it in droves. I expect the repeat tonight will be a busy place. -
Good shout, there's something about that screwdriver. If it was Romana wouldn't The Doctor have remembered her from when he was Tom Baker? Did she specifically say 'you haven't met me yet?'. Either way top episode. Light years hahead of anything else this series. Up the Moffoid.
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'I'm a time traveller. I point and laugh at archaeologists."
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look behind his head. She's done a painting of Rose and a wolf.
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At last I can write something unreservedly good about a season 4 episode! Well....almost. Brilliant stuff. Remember that any writer (or director), however marvellous, can't be expected to always equal or top him/herself. Think Speilberg:Temple of Doom (no...Crystal Skull was great!) So SM shouldn't be criticised for not coming up to Blink's standards. Donna? Almost. Not quite. She still managed a nauseating bit of 'Sarf Landan' twaddle. The only mistake Moffat has made (is it one?) is providing the Doctor with a REAL potential companion who is worth something, thus highlighting why Donna should remain on that information pillar. Anyone else cheer? Bring on part two...this is real WHO!
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There's shadows. A skeletal reanimated spaceman corpse. Lots of shadows... that can EAT you! River Song turns out to be **SPOILERS DELETED** and when the Doctor **SPOILERS DELETED** you wouldn't believe what happens next! **SPOILERS DELETED** makes **SPOILERS DELETED** go completely mental, and then everyone who was "saved " **SPOILERS DELETED**. Then **SPOILERS DELETED** dies, and you will all cry. Spectacular episode, absolutely unmissable.
Tune in next week, for **SPOILERS DELETED**. -
If only you knew.
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i have to wait a week to see how it ends.
damn you moff~ -
I do think we need to be careful about revealing certain things. When "Partners In Crime" was shown I was shocked to read a review here that blurted out that Rose was in it. That was supposed to be a surprise which was completely ruined the moment anyone read that.So as a simple guide if something in an episode takes you by surprise or makes you think "Oh my God!" then DON'T reveal that in a review. There may well be a couple of those moments next week so let's please keep them to ourselves.And for future reference if Rose does properly arrive in the show earlier than we're expecting (i.e. before the two-part finale) then don't be shouting that out in capital letters either.
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the last two episodes, this and The Doctors Daughter, I've very nearly come close to liking Donna as portrayed by Tate. But then she goes and does her usual squawky voice thing and drags me out of it!! Which is a shame cos they've been the best two episodes so far on the series. Looking forward to next week, hopefully Tate will keep the squawking to a minimum. Also, Alex Kingston.... you so fucking would. By the way which dufus at the BBC trail department decided it would be a good idea to run trailers this week that basically confirmed that Rose would be back (we'd guessed to be fair) with a BFG and showed Davros (all be it in shadow)!!!! Idiots!
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Twat
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Three words: Doctor Who classic.
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With 'The Moff' taking over he'll be writing the first and last episodes of seasons thus introducing the new characters and having some spectacular finale arcs rather than the spotfest panto mimes we've had the past two years.... Moist doesn't quite cover it... If anything I can see the Moff breaking with tradition and having companions start mid season like the good ol' days :o)
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I think the litmus test for part one of a two parter is the anticipation built up for the second part. Me and my wife cannot wait for next Saturday to roll by....
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Jun 01, 2008 8:51:40 AM CDT
"Tate reining in all traces of her Runaway Bride caricature"
by supertoyslast
Almost, but not quite. It seems to be an unwritten rule of this series that, since the majority of the UK audience knows Tate for her sketch show work, there needs to be at least one moment per episode to let her gurn or put on a silly voice. "I bloody love you!" from Fires of Pompeii and this week it was her response to River explaining that the Doctor hadn't met her yet in his timeline (which was absolutely crystal clear to the audience). Donna's response of "are you talking rubbish or what?" etc completely pulled me out of the episode since it reminded me that I was watching Catherine Tate and not Donna Noble. That aside, Tate isn't as bad as feared in this series, but there's been nothing to convince me that she's actively good in the role and certainly not great.
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I must admit I haven't been that impressed with this season, well not until Moffat sprinkled some of his talent dust over the series that is. This is very much in the mould of a classic 60's Who with everything and more thrown in. I loved it and can't wait for next week's and for the Moffat Master to take over the franchise for that matter.
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What happened at the end of the last series...can Time Lords change sex??
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Riversong's story is much better if she is "merely" a future companion. I fear though that we're headed for a real tearjerker of a finale to that story. That's not that I don't also long to see a Romana story some day (Lalla Ward was my favorite actress of the original series), but I think that would be an unneeded complication to the current story.
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future doctor?
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Fortunately, ITV can't run Britain's Got Talent every week, and now it's over. Next week they'll be back to Celebrity Ping Pong Deathmatch or World's Unfunniest Animal Falling Over Movies... and Doctor Who will be back up to 7-8 million. Don't be surprised if the BBC3 ratings are higher than usual as people catch up. That's the thing with Doctor Who. People know it's repeated twice before next week, whereas the Britain's Got Talent final is a one-off live event.
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Good to see you're still around, Gabba, flying the flag for the Taters. Are you feeling pretty lonely? She was hardly in this week's episode, but of everything and anything you could have commented on... all you've got to write about is Catherine Tate again! I think you secretly have a crush on her, and are quite ashamed of yourself. You're like a closeted homosexual who adopts homophobia to try and protect their little secret.
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Can't wait 'til next week for the resolution. AG - you must feel great that that the UK loves Dr Who and has made it a roaring success. Way to watch 50 episodes of something you can't stand! Berk.
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There's a good chance that Doctor Who will win its larger audience back next week. The main competition from ITV is the Euro 2008 footy tournament, which England aren't in. Maybe some footy fans will choose to watch Switzerland v Czech Republic, but me and many others I bet will want to see how this ace tale ends.
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Will a football match between two countries your average football fan couldn't find on a map really have that much generic appeal? Let's not kid ourselves, we fans don't make up the majority of Doctor Who's audience - most people who tune in are just your usual telly watchers, the same kind who are just as likely to watch something like Britain's Got Talent too. If it was an England match on ITV at the same time, I'd be worried for the ratings. I don't think Doctor Who has much to worry about.
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I see that "Blink" has been followed by "Yawn". Too much tedium. All Moffat's other episodes have been excellent, but this was stretched.
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However they can change race, as shown in the PT regeneration, when they show some of the faces that the timelords were considering for him, one was black.
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I think she's a future Doctor, not the Master or the Rani.
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I reckon that it could be the master after he regenarated because after he died his ring fell off and a WOMAN picked it up I think that it could be River Song!!!
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River Song seems to be the Doctors girlfriend. She said something about seeing a timelord and the whole sinchronising diaries and the fact that he gave her a sonic screw................... driver.
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The implication of River Song seemed to be that she's from the far future of Dr. Who's life, which means that Alex Kingston's unlikely to be a regular on Who - either that or they've got a really old codger lined up to be Tennant's eventual replacement! (since modern luvvies appear to start panicking about being typecast as soon as they land a leading part it won't be long - assuming who lasts a fair few years yet - before the writers have to figure a way to regenerate the Dr. more than 12 times).
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There's a popular belief around that River Song is a somehow altered Captain Jack. It's a crazy idea but hey, anything is possible in Who.She WAS very flirty with the Doc.
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Captain Jack ends up as the Face of Bo i.e. a giant head in a fish tank... who then dies. So any sex change would have to happen long before that. Either way Jack's already met both Tennant and Ecclestones Drs. BEFORE this episode, so being Captain Jack doesn't make much sense. Besides, why not just use John Barrowman? And why wouldn't Captain Jack just reveal himself as Captain Jack even if he'd had a sex change? Not least because being a woman would (presumably) vastly increase Captain Jack's chances of getting to shag the DR?!! Clearly the other Dr Who forums are populated with banjo playing idiots, unlike the intellectual colossi on this one. FACT!!
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I thought that line about Jack being the Face of Bo was nothing more than a throwaway gag by RTD.And even if we are to believe Jack becomes Bo then he could still be River Song. Whatever changed him into a female form could, I assume, change him back to Jack again. Or Bo. Or whatever.What am I even talking about??? :)
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River Song. Surely she's just The Doctor's companion in the future and that's that. She's simply there as a foreboding 'Oh my God you're Donna Noble!' Meaning something horrible is about to happen to Donna. They keep telling us that we're going to be weeping at the finale. I'm thinking it's a HUGE red herring and no-one dies. Maybe The Doctor gets shunted to the alternate universe and Rose et al are trapped on the other side... Hmmm, now that's something to ponder, would explain the Cybermen at Christmas. He's on THEIR planet Earth and not ours. Or I could be completely wrong. But I really doubt Russell T Davies will kill Rose or Donna off, afteral this is a very UPLIFTING family show. WHO knows...?
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River Song's presumably either a blood relative of the Dr (i.e. daughter, granddaughter etc) a (far) future companion... or maybe an ex-wife or girlfriend (other than he's never done it in the series so far presumably there's no reason why the Dr. shouldn't eventually get around to girlfriends/marriage). But if she is a blood relative she's not acting much like a Time Lord...
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Either way to me she seemed to imply she was from the FAR future of the Dr's life. Either way she CAN'T be Captain Jack - a) Jack's already met this Dr b) Jack would have instantly told the Dr who he was c) a sex changed Captain Jack would have been all over the Dr - a lot more than River Song was. River Song = Captain Jack? Bollocks!! This is what makes these forums hilarious - somebody mentions something stupid like this and then everyone spends the next 5 days trying to prove/disprove it, none of which has any bearing on what the writers actually have planned for Dr Who!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On top of which why can't a new character just be a new character? Why does everyone always want them to be the Rani/Captain Jack/The Master/Davros in disguise?
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You don't think she's Captain Jack do you?
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Professor River Song is The Doctor's wife. Period.
Sorry, I just couldn't let you all go on with the bad speculations. I mean, really? Captain Jack?
Whatever.
BTW, I really liked the episode, and next week's will be really enjoyable. -
"maybe an ex-wife or girlfriend (other than he's never done it in the series so far presumably there's no reason why the Dr. shouldn't eventually get around to girlfriends/marriage)"the dr started off back in the 60's with his granddaughter. hes very old and hes ALREADY got around to girlfriends and marriage long before we even met him. frankly, if i was a thousand year old time travelling hero, and id already done the dating scene, married, had children and been saddled with looking after THEIR children, even if i still had a responsive and working tackle id probably lose interest in getting laid again. thats even if im not permanently recovering from seeing my whole race wiped out, losing my physical identity every few years and watching woman after woman leave me when she gets bored or lost. not to mention he never seems to take a break from saving the world - when did you last see a 'dr and companion lounge on the beaches of tau ceti' episode.
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id say hes got a fine range of mental issues across the board at this point. maybe in his timelord head he knows hes a mess so he throws himself into his 'work' instead.i want to know when hes going to redecorate that pos tardis. used to happen all the time. this ones been around for what, 4 years now? and its ugly.
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I'm just sat here watching the repeat and thinking EXACTLY the same thing JillianneSix. She's his wife.
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I was impressed. And Ive always been sweet on Alex Kingston ;)
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After giving this subject considerable attention I've decided River Song is one of two things. She's either a) a time traveling stalker or b) an inside-out Dalek with some makeup on her squiggly bits, her nefarious scheme being to seduce the doc and then 'do him' with her hidden sink plunger at the crucial moment. FACT.
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from the series currently airing here in 2012. I just popped back in time to tell you all about it. It's very good. Steven Moffat is writing all of them and there's not a fucking Slitheen in sight!I'm still pining for Tegan though!
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river song knew him as THIS doctor.
as 10th doctor.
as david tennant.
and she knew him for quite a while, on multiple adventures troughout the time.
so, no doctor regenerations until tennant goes trough all that, or maybe those adventures will happen during the 5th (31th) season, and the rumored storyline about the search for doctor... -
River Song recognised him as the Dr. But she stated she'd never seen him look so young and implied that in whatever incarnation she'd known him he'd looked/been much older. However long David Tennant plays the doc it's unlikely he'll still be playing him in 30-40 years time. So either there's a plan to age Tennant's doc in a future episode, or they've got a much older actor lined up to replace Tennant, or - and if you ask me this is much more likely - River Song knows the doc from a future regeneration far in the doc's future (how long can a timelord live for? He's over 900 already) which will never be shown on t.v and River Song will never be more than an occasionally recurring character... if that.
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then why the surprise when she finds out that he doesn't know her yet?
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Another word for River is Stream. A Song has a Lyric. Stream Lyric. It's an anagram of the latest Master, Cyril.
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She sends the Dr. a message to come to the library, lands on the deserted planet, and lo and behold discovers a raving smart arse and his sidekick. Who else could it be?
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she said "going by your face"
the part I don't quite understand is that she continues with "I'd say it's only days for you, yes?" -
how come know one has stumbled upon the only and most obvious answer that river song is indeed .....ROSE TYLER its common knowledge shes comeing back for the last 3 episode so it stands to reason its her who else would trust the doctor so much and in turn him trust enough to give away his sonic screwdriver???
i bet she also the one who took the masters ring i havent worked it all out yet but im would be willing to bet im right on this one -
or at least that's what it sounded like to me. which makes a lot more sense, and if i'm right backs up my theory that she's from the far future of the Dr.s life
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it's not rose.
rose will meet donna, as seen in previews when she's telling her that something is coming.
also, about master's ring, NO WAY are those rose's fingernails... -
Between us we've deduced that River Song is one of these -a)The Doctor in a future regenerationb)The Doctor's future wifec)The Doctor's future girlfriendd)A future companione)A future neighbourf)His daughterg)His grand-daughterh)His cousini)Some other relative he only sees at family weddingsj)The Masterk)The Ranil)Some other Timelord he only sees at weddingsm)Rosen)Captain Jacko)The little girl in the ep, all grown upp)Lucy Saxonq)Lynda with a 'y'r)The chick who used to be in ERI favour the future wife idea.
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...The face seems familiar
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next week's trailer is here http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/videos/?episode=S4_08&character=&action=videostream&playlist=/doctorwho/playlists/s4_08/video/s4_08_trl_06.xml&video=1&date=&summary=The%20next%20time%20preview%20for%20Forest%20of%20the%20Dead.&info=&info2=&info3=&tag_file_id=s4_08_t
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well you can get it on the bbc site - presumably only available in the uk...
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Laying the groundwork for future plot elements is mostly subtle in WHO. I doubt Moffat is laying the groundwork for her to be a future companion. Their relationship will be one of those untold stories left to the imagination just like thwe Time War. Any revelation about either event would pale in comparison to what fans speculate. There would be too much disappointment.
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... is showing us new Who episodes only 7-14 days after the BBC broadcasts them! Well, it's amazing considering that Sci-Fi waited over TWO YEARS to show the first episode of the relaunch. I remember a quote from one of their executives about, "Americans just won't 'get' this show." I wonder if he still works there?
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Cease thy prattle, people! Get with the program! She's an inside out Dalek with make-up on her squiggly bits. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
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I'm surprised that there are so many theories ... it would appear our collective imaginations have gone gone a little loopy.
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Please tell me which part, so I can rewind it.
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At the beginning of the previews for next week, we hear River say "I'd trust that man to the end of the universe... and trust me... we've been."
Well, we know that three people have been to the end of the universe with the Doctor: Martha, The Master and Captain Jack.
Also, if you look at River's appearance, don't you think she LOOKS like she could become the Face of Boe? Same facial resemblance and her hair kind of reminds me of those gangly, rasta dreds things that hung off Boe's head. -
Remember way back in the Shakespeare Code when Elizabeth I knew the Doctor? Are we ever going to get that story?
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fuck america. You bitches get it when we're good and ready.
As for seeing the end of the universe, he can always do more than one trip. -
Moffat is going to be a good show runner. Really enjoyed the episode.
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Would be great. You won't find a young doctor whose anymore enthusiastic than Tennant, without being fucking annoying.... so go for something different. Bill Nighy would be a great Doctor.
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met Elizabeth I. Victoria, and Elizabeth II. And coupling that with the comments at the end of 'Tooth & Claw' about the royals being werewolves that could make for an interesting storyline.
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The mysterious, deadly and unstoppable menace that you can't see coming... until it's too late.The catchy catch-phrase that warns you how to survive said menace, but at the same time, makes it obvious you can't get away: "Don't Blink!" "Count the shadows!" "Eat Your veggies!"Someone knowing the Doctor's future before he himself doesThe Doctor communicating with a girl through the T.V.All of this definitely took away from the enjoyment of the episode, since it really felt like a rehash of what we've seen before from Mr. Moffat, but it was a good episode nonetheless.It was certainly HELPED by the presence of Alex Kingston, who's continues to be one of the hottest Brits to show up on the screen!And of course, Donna cried... AGAIN! Oh, and that dead girl WAS dumb, but not as hot as she thought she was. She just wore too much makeup.
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This was a completely excellent episode. I have to say Moffat has obviously read the Time Traveler's Wife (a fantastic book). This is not a criticism - the whole idea of a relationship lived out of order is a brilliant one, and well suited to Doctor Who.
Can't wait for the next one! -
At around 30 mins have a look at the little girls pictures on the wall, when Dr Moon tells her the nightmares are real. She's done a painting of a blonde girl and a (bad) wolf.
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Simple as that. And Tate was good in this one- I stand mostly corrected. Ignore AG- he's that twat that thinks ITV produce Quality drama.
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Dunno if I am confused or some of you are..but did River Song not just say his EYES looked older-so he may not be a much older doc but just a must more experienced future regeneration? Also I don't know where this 'missus' thing comes from, is River just being a loyal future companion to obvious? Why do some guys here think Tennent will play the doc forever? It is only natural he will regenerate-a year tops from now. Sorry, if I sound grumpy, it is Monday morning!!!!
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I think this is sort of a red herring, since the Girl in the image wears glasses and Rose does not.http://tinyurl.com/43pjuj
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would be awesome!!! Imagine his attitude from Love Actually. Gold Gold Gold. Lets get pissed and watch porn
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I think it's obvious that River Song is the Doctors ex-wife.
The 4,200 souls that were in the library (including Donna) are now stored as data constructs on the largest hard drive ever.
And my guess for how they get out of the cliff-hanger... feed the fleshy donna-face to the shadows, and do a runner. -
There's a bit where one guy asks the other to compare Moffat and RTD's writing! And it's so obvious he can't say anything like "RTD is crap" or "RTD writes for kids" or whatever. He just humms and haws and says nothing.
Then at one point they say that the podcast was recorded the week that RTD announced he was leaving the show. And he was supposed to be at this podcast, but he's gone off in a sulk! Ha ha!
Fucking lousy SF writer. -
for a little bit, I think she was shocked that this was the first time Ten met her, because when they met for *her* first time, the Doctor never gave any indication that they'd met before.
As such, I think she dies at the end of this adventure. And then the Doctor will meet her in the future (maybe done in a series of flash forwards like the end of Family of Blood) but he'll look older and sadder (especially in the eyes) because he knows she'll die in the library.
It is kind of silly the way so many talkbackers are convinced that she must be a character we've already seen before. It's like they just expect the show to be simple and childish and very narrow in its imagination. -
"Donna Noble is gonna die and all those who complained about tate, will be eating there words"
Yes we know RTD... you were so very smart to cast Tate and we'll be sad when she dies.
Except we *won't* all be sad.
Because a) she doesn't really die
and b) Some people still hate her.
Now me, I'll admit I like Donna in Season 4. She has her moments where she gets on my tits something fierce, but they are only moments. I think she's a very good, mature, empathic character for the most part, and I'll be sad to see her leave the show. -
Jun 02, 2008 5:45:54 AM CDT
She's Rose! She's Captain Jack! She's Davros! She's Christopher
by steve rogers
Calm down everyone. Some of the speculation on her is pure daftness! And I'm sorry, but in NO WAY is it "the only and most obvious answer" that Song is Rose. Piper and Kingston look nothing like each other, and as Rose is coming back in this series anyway to have another actor play her is just dumb. It's not all "obvious", get over yourselves!
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I don't know if many people have seen this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/videos/?episode=S4_08&character=&action=videostream&playlist=/doctorwho/playlists/s4_08/video/s4_08_big_01.xml&video=1&date=&summary=David%20Tennant%20and%20Catherine%20Tate%20talk%20childrens%20books.&info=&info2=&info3=&tag_file_i
I just stumbled across it on the site. You have to appreciate the classic sci-fi image of a girl with a massive gun!
Anyway, looks jolly exciting. Sadly I'll be in the bloody US when the final three episodes are on BBC1! -
that link doesn't seem to work, but you'll get it if you go to the official site "Videos" section and click on "mid-series trail". I'm sure a lot of you have already seen it anyway.
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I got the impression that, rather than a companion, she was someone the Doctor met intermittantly through their lives, so she was using the diary to figure out where he was along the timeline she had of him.
The vitriol towards the reviewers makes me laugh. That's how they have always been written, if you don't like them and you have been reading them for 50 episodes, frankly you're a bit of a fuckwit! -
Got a real "The Haunted Spaceman" vibe from the monster this episode... which I liked very much. Anyway, SPOILERS AHOY! Donna doesn't die, she loses her memory at the end of the season. Davros comes back as the Big Bad at the end of the season. And pay attention to the Doctor's hand on the Tardis. There's a reason they kept it (the writers).
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It's for when Rose returns. The Doctor's spare hand can crawl up her skirt whilst he stands there with a blissful look on his face, shrugging and saying "Touching you? Of course not, Rose. I'm The Doctor I wouldn't....oooooh...."
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I don't think they're glasses, just a bad kid's painting of eyes. You don't think a framed shot of a blonde girl and a wolf is a Rose reference?!
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River Song is really Colin Baker, come to eat David Tennant.
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"fuck america. You bitches get it when we're good and ready."
Actually, no, fuck YOU. Ill get each episode within four hours of airtime, from isohunt.com, probably in better quality than you get with your stupid fucking "rabbit ears", you dumb fucking chav.
In short, no one here in the US needs to wait for your (or anyones) permission to check out the new WHO.
In closing, eat a bag of dicks. Not your country mind you (which is obviously blessed to have such a militantly nationalistic cocksmear like you for a citizen). Just you. -
RHOZE!
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has anyone even entertained the possibility that it was rose who got the masters ring at the end of the last series and it has somehow given her the powers of a time lord including the ability to regenerate and thats why she looks so different and why the doctor hasent met her yet
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...that it was rose who got the masters ring at the end of the last series and it has somehow given her the powers of a time lord including the ability to regenerate and thats why she looks so different and why the doctor hasent met her yet" - No. You read too much into too much. RTD admitted in previous interviews that the female hand picking up the Master's ring was just a bone he threw to future production teams who may want to bring the character back. Bet you any money Song is not Rose.
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Or is that shitty five minute "Time Crash" the only thing we'll get? They could bring back AT LEAST the past three doctors (yes, even Paul McGann). Would Chris Eccleston be up for it?
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With Moffat taking the reins next series, he could be teasing the Doctor's next companion with a timey-wimey advance meeting.
Hmmm...All of the sudden I'm reminded of poor Zathras... -
Just seen the new Doctor Who and I just LOVED IT! I have become the number 1 Doctor Who fan and can't get enough of his adventures. I have been listing themes and recurring motifes on here for you guys (I know we are the only ones who will appreciate it).
1. Doctor Who does not seem to recognise Doctor Kingston.
2. Donna will not be dead... Yet.
3. Doctor Who loves to read (ofcourse he's english).
4. He did not regurgitate in this episode. I think we may see the third Doctor Who at the end of next weeks show.
Possible casting for Doctor Who: The Movie.
Doctor Who - Daniel Craig.
The Master - Dan Shanks.
Hope you guys are getting on well. -
The BBC should sell that.
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Remember when the Ood told the Doctor "I think your Song must end soon"? I think that was actually a reference to River Song and she's going to die...probably in the very next episode. Professor Song knew the older version of the Doctor. Imagine how he must feel, always knowing when and how she will die.
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This is the kind doctor episodes i like, and this was prob's my fav from this season so far, i can't wait for season 5 if these are the type of storys mr moffat likes to write, the past few episodes have lacked a bit of something, But this one had the lot for me.
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Doctor
who -
A lot of people like to play the guessing game with Doctor Who, ie, so and so picked up the Master's ring, What's his face is making the planets disappear, but, YOU, you are a genius, what you said in your post makes perfect sense!!!! Holy you-know-what, I'll bet you're right, she dies in part 2. Ooooooo, I'd hate to be the Doctor right now!!!
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I got the feeling that the when the doctor gets really hurt, the hand regenerates into another doctor, hence the Christmas episode where a trailer was seen with the title "The Other Doctor" on it, along with David's trailer.I doubt he'll live long, but I suspect that's how they wrap up the hand issue.I'm still holding on to the fact that it's a girl with glasses, and a dog, but I could be wrong, I been so before and will be again.On the River Song front, I don't see her being a full on companion for a series or two, I would think there's a better chance she's a regenerated MEL than the Rani. Yes, I know MEL wasn't a timelord.As for the Romana lovers (and I'm a huge one, please bring back Lala) here is how you fix the timelords death and the end of Galifrey issue.The doctor can't sense any other living timelords right? And can't sense Romana because she's in E-space. And since ALL the timelords were used in the time war, he can't go back and use any of them.Finally he bangs his head on the console or sees a small boy die and it reminds him of Adric and E-space and goes back and gets her, and uses her as a way to avoid the timewar and bring back the timelords. All to easy.
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I don't want to play the Doctor Who guessing game, as i mentioned in my earlier post, so, I will only say this, if anyone's got a copy of "Silence in the Library" fast forward to 11 minutes 42 seconds into it. The scene where the camera zeros in on Donna's hand reaching for the Doctor's arm. She has on a very large ring on her finger.
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I've watched the ep again. I thought it was even better the second time. And having looked at the picture on the wall I will agree that was absolutely supposed to be of Rose (glasses or no).What this means in the grand scheme of things I've no idea, but I love this crazy level of layering they're doing.
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... he splits into two Doctors played by two different actors? They have a few adventures with the both of them but then they find out there's some instability because of it and one of them has to die.
For starters it'd be something different and it could keep people guessing as to who will eventually take over the role in the long run given this era of internet spoilage. You could even film two different death scenes to really hide it for a while ... -
Ok, just to put my theory forwards. I believe that knowing Moffat, he will have River Song as a 'potential' future companion of the Doctors. Somebody who has travelled with a later version of Tennant on many adventures and have formed a strong relationship..BUT!!! in episode 2 of this library storyline, she is unfortunately going to give the Doctor "A SPOILER", a bit of knowledge that will help out.. and in doing so, changes the (her) future, and basically wipes out herself from his future. For example, giving some snippet of how Donna dies (so the Doctor chooses to save her) or something like that... Basically, giving the audience a look at a relationship that could have been (happiness for the Doctor) and then pulling it away at the last minute... And just to confirm this, in the snippet of next weeks show after the titles, wasn't there a bit about somebody mentioning 'A spoiler'? and didn't the doctor say "No Spoilers" in this first episode when donna was looking at a 'future book'... Doctors true love of his future will never be, because he 'took a look at a spoiler'... Well, there you go, what do you think????
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continuing on from the post above - this is maybe too much like the 2nd apart of 'Family of Blood'. You know, Daisy from Spacced and the Doctors life into old age... that never happened. It worked in the last series... Looks like it's maybe repeated again... (though it would be nice if she was actually a version of a future companion, but i think that's just too hard to plan in an industry where actors change in TV roles like this..._)
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That would DEFINITELY be cool.
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Absolutely spot on! Love that idea and I think you are correct.
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It's kind of like Moffats Blink last year, where he used DVD "Easter Eggs" as a story element... I find it funny looking at the forum above to think he could be doing the same with **SPOILERS**.. :)
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does everyone think the Doctor's going to regenerate soon? There seems hints that way but if he is to regenerate then what's the point in not having a series next year? I thought the whole reason for that was to keep him on so he could play Hamlet for the RSC (He seems a little too slim to play Hamlet for me! - but he's certainly good enough to work it!) and not have to leave the show. You could argue that perhaps the real reason for the delayed series 5 was the switch over of a writing team, or to accommodate a NEW actor - but these reasons don't seem to really justify putting such a huge BBC show off for a year (with the exception of the three specials). A more likely reason seems to be, as they said, that they are compromising to keep Tennant. So I for one don't think think he's going anywhere in a hurry (although perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part!)
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.... there's pictures of Tennant milling about here. I was actually thinking a while ago that David Morrissey would be a good new doctor. he in fact looks rather doctory like here: http://tinyurl.com/6p24ml , but he was on set with Tennant so he's obviously not going to be the next doctor.
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have to say this but who cares who said it was a shit episode. i enjoyed it. it had everything i expected from a moff episode. and if this is whats gonna be the norm when he takes over so be it - as an avid dr who fan (classic and relaunched) it does hark back to the tom baker days in suspense. cant wait to find out who river song is ? ps when's jenny comin back ? she was hot !!!!!
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Every time you don't look they move to kill you!
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Just read your theory and...we like! Definitely a Moffat tear-jerker if ever I saw one. If this isn't the way this episode goes, I bet it ain't far off!By the way, 'Hewligan's Haircut'? Come on, 'Time Flies' was bad and I could see why you didn't go with 'Tank Girl', but 'Hewligan's frickin' Haircut'???
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I enjoyed this episode but it was in no way scary, oooh look invisible piranha fish that live in shadows, and people bemoaned RTD's campery, Moffatt is an excellent writer, he has a good feel for Who though he is a little dour in his delivery, maybe too concerned with trying to be darker and failing to get the humour levels right. Like it or not for 4 years the show has has a seriously cool comedy vibe, if that disappears all together tonally it may be too much for me to deal with. Whats up with Moffatt's statue fetish too?, last year it was monster statues now its a Donna one, he is maybe one of those fetish weirdos that like to rub against them in public places, is that called frottaging or is that rubbing against other people only? Anyway we know Dona is okay, we saw her in the finale trailer so suspense gone there, skeleton in a spacesuit?, tres Scooby Doo, I ain't read the talk-back yet, I wonder if that is getting all the hate the Scooby corridor running scene from Love & Monsters did? I'm jazzed for the finale and see next weeks concluding part as exciting to see who River Song is, do folks think its Rose?
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David Tennant and Georgia Moffett are apparently dating. http://tinyurl.com/5q3jc3 I think it'd be cool but a little weird if both your dad and your boyfriend were Doctor Who. All the best to them though. They make a cute couple.
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You cant shag your onscreen daughter, the doctor is already on thin ice with being 900 and hanging around teenagers a lot, shades on Neelix and Kes, him dating his own daughter is just wrong, sick bastard.
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...between tennant and davison after they wrapped time crash must've been like:
"good job, pete. btw., I'm frakking your daughter. see ya at the christmas dinner... dad!" -
Her husband is Doctor Who. Her dad is Doctor Who. Her mum is Trillian from Hitch-hiker's Guide.Her family tree would read like a history of British sci-fi.
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She's a hot piece of ass!
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SMACK! "Who's your Daddy? WHO'S YOUR DADDY YEEEAAAAHH!"
Ahh, that's just grim, y'all. -
wow...
that was just so... wrong.
still funny though. -
Jun 03, 2008 3:04:06 PM CDT
Smashing: Dating his own onscreen female clone is okay, though
by spyguy
Jenny's not the Doctor's daughter unless clones, even gender-opposite ones, suddenly count as actual progeny.
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We're jealous. I mean daughter or no, if you were David Tennant you would.
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She looks about 15!!!! Shame on you, you dirty old doctor!! He's worse than that Harold Shipman, he is!
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she's 23, and has a 6 years old kid.
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I thought he was with Sophia Myles. I guess when she left to be part of the cast of Moonlight, (Now canceled.) they parted.
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I wonder if he ever dated Billie? She used to call him David Ten-Inch. I wonder?
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Dispensing with the sexual shenanigans of the Doctor and his daughter for the time being.....There has been news of Torchwood season 3 today. It will kick off with a five-part story. Five episodes that will be shown in the same week. John Barrowman will be in it.
No definitive news on other casting yet. No news either if there'll be any more episodes than those. The BBC are saying "There might be, there might not" -
Haven't they killed that shit yet? WHY are they carrying on with this shit? TW is, and will always be, CARRY ON UP THE ANUS. The only thing that makes it watchable for me is to record it to DVD, then watch it at 2X speed with the BENNY HILL theme tune on in the baclground. It all makes so much more sense when Barrowman is running around after Ianto in fast motion and then all his clothes fall off.
JOHN BARROWMAN = BENNY HILL for the 2000s. FACT! -
Ok lots of talk about Blink being like this story so I put this trailer together to give you all a little grin.
http://tinyurl.com/6k6vy4I hope the link is tact I hate that they break up here. -
Proof that the BBC does hate viewers
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is that the Doctor, the old experienced time traveler, seems absolutely stupid when meeting someone who has met his future self. Like this has never happened before? Unlikely, I'd think. And even if that's the case, you'd expect him to know and obey the rules about "spoilers".
Other than that, it's a spotless episode. -
another cool theory would be that the sonic screwdriver she has isnt just the doctors old one it is the doctors because she is in fact the doctor its been rumored before that this series is tennants last how cool would it be it we had a female doctor it would be a good change to the series and i think she would be a cool doctor it would also explain why he didnt know who she was
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Who wouldn't watch something called Carry On Up The Anus? It sounds mint
I might give your Torchwood viewing technique a whirl - although I must admit I TOTALLY love it the normal way! - probably for the same reasons you don't
I really don't like this idea of making Torchwood a pre-watershed deal. The wacky out of place gruesomeness, bad language and (bi)sexuality make it fun for me. Otherwise it'll just be Doctor Who without the Doctor, when it should be Doctor Who without the Doctor and some naughty bits. Oh, and Barrowman is an awful dramatic actor - but again it's one of Torchwood's charms! -
I am glad someone else thinks Barrowman is an awful dramatic actor. He hams it up worse than William Shatner. He is a great singer, but to quote Nat X, I've seen better acting in a Cambodian whorehouse.
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Hopefully this guy will continue to write for the series after RTD's departure.
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"another cool theory would be that the sonic screwdriver she has isnt just the doctors old one it is the doctors because she is in fact the doctor.......it would also explain why he didnt know who she was"
but River Song didnt recognize Donna. Even Tennants doctor recognized Sarah Jane. Interesting theory though........ -
Two years ago in School Reunion, Sarah Jane Smith came back and was the focus of the episode. It was great to see her and Rose go back and fourth.On the screwdriver front, IT'S NOT THE SAME, it's so obviously NOT THE SAME it scares me! River's has little serifs on the blue light up part, that the Doctor's doesn't.Oh and by the way, sorry for posting a talkback without a title.
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Same thing happened before in BLINK, **mild spoilage ahoy** at the end where Sally Sparrow meets the Doctor a year after the events with the Weeping Angels and gives him the folder full of what he needs to know and say - and The Doctor looks at her totally blankly. She says "Oh, yes, this hasn't happened yet - you haven't met me yet!" then proceeds to explain how when the Doctor ends up flung back to the 1960s, he might need to read these notes. The Doctor just nods, thanks her and runs away - not the incompetent, inexperienced fool he's made to be in LIBRARY when River Song is going on about knowing him. The only explanation I can think of for his genuinely confused reaction is that he has no recollection of her - fair enough if he hasn't mey her yet, but maybe he's picking up a sense of "something's not right here"? He is mildly psychic after all...
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I agree that if you're after wacky, surreal bisexual sci-fi fun that TORCHWOOD is the series LEXX wishes it could have been. If I were a Beeb exec, I'd be shouting from the rooftops that I just created the world's first openly gay/bi sci-fi comedy show and that it caters for that particular audience first. The pink pound seems to be a fairly lucrative market (RTD has made a career out of it) and if the Beeb had the courage of their convictions they'd be honest about what TORCHWOOD really was. For me, I remember all the hype surrounding what TORCHWOOD would be, and remember having hope for a good dark Doctor-less series set in the WHO universe, full of weird goings-on and morally ambiguous characters like Yvonne in DOOMSDAY. What we got was nothing like what we were told about - this is what pisses me off about TORCHWOOD. God knows there's a market for camp sci-fi - the original STAR TREK? LEXX? XENA? BUFFY? FLASH GORDON (the movie)? But at least be honest about what it is. TORCHWOOD isn't remotely the show we were told it'd be - it falls far, far short of that - and my first inkling of this came when they announced Captain Jack (not Sparrow) Harkness as the lead character. He's the token gay sidekick at best in WHO - barely two -dimensional, let alone three - and Captain John is basically Spike slash fiction thrown in to get more ratings from the Buffy fanatics. It's risible shite, but if the market it's intended for love it, more power to 'em. I still think there's a market for a good, dark thriller set in the WHO universe - that is the polar opposite of the puerile, amateur shite that is TORCHWOOD. And the nearest we've got to it so far is THE STRANGER with Colin Baker. *sigh*
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Colin Baker is in the worst shape of his life!
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I understand where you're coming from, but would disagree about the dishonesty of the beeb - I think they're trying to make a dark sci-fi show, and a lot of the time I think they succeed. There are some genuinely horrible and scary moments as well as whole episodes. It's troubles are it's links to Doctor Who if you ask me - They use some silly monsters and silly moments of peril, which are better suited to fun family viewing and they've got John Barrowman, who just can't do this acting malarky. I think a lot of people were put off Torchwood because in this last series they did the Doctor who trick of having a light fun and action packed series opener. And since they have this post watershed it was filled with naughty quips and Barrowman's own brand of intentionally direct camp! After this episode (which I'll admit I enjoyed), like Doctor who, the episodes got more serious and darker - the bleaker moments were at times more downbeat than anything on Who (which it should be). There was a return to campness for Martha's return, but for the most part it was quite true to this "dark and serious" image. The episode with the chap who changed their memories was particularly affecting (again hampered by Barrowman acting 'sad'). Anyway, my point is that Torchwood can be a serious Sci-fi (and it does try - they killed off two central characters! - one of whom had been the walking dead for six episodes!), it's just got some major failings, and there have been some allowances to reel people in. I can see how the shows failings are too great for some people to come back to it, but I'm still going to keep watching! As for all this pink pound talk - I certainly don't think it's the sexuality itself that makes Torchwood camp, it's Barrowman/Captain Jack and the dialogue written for him. There is no reason why there can't be a a serious, bleak, thought-provoking sci-fi drama with homosexual central characters. Torchwood is just perhaps not quite the full package!
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The show is monkey toss. The discussions it garners are way above what it deserves, its a lazy, cheap and mostly harmful show.
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I'd certainly dispute that, but to each there own, and i understand and partially agree with a lot criticisms of the show. I also (clearly!) think it's worth discussing, so sorry Smashing, I'll probably be at it again!
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Hope we see more of the archiology girl. she'd make an awesome companion. Definitely a match for the Doctor. And brilliant concepts as always. I love the ghostiung bit. Moffats a genius at creating world with whole new iussues. the science and the situation isn't really evil or good it just is and the people have to deal with it. The swarm bit's cool too. I think the "Saved" people are literally that, saved like a computer file in some variation of the ghosting affect on those space suites, and their all living in a virtual reality fantasy all Matrixy maintained by that giant computer at the core. Maybe Dr. Moon is a program designed tom look for a way to get them new bodies or spomething. Maybe the little girl controlling the camera gives him access to get them out of the system.
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if she was a versiion pof Jack in another form she'd know why he didn't recognize her. If she was a female version of the Doctor she ceratinly wouldn't have been confused as to where she was in his timeline, at least as far as being in his past.
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Torchwood has had some extraordinary and dark scifi concepts and has really set the characters through their paces. I think the camp has been intentional, as with buffy and Angel and to some extent Farscape as a way of counterpointing the darkness. The scary and tragic moments of buffy hit harder because we could see them when they were happy and even a little bit silly. I think that was the affect RTD was going for. The extent to which he succeeded is matter of perspective. I thought it worked mostly but I can see where it sometimes might take one out of the moment.
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...needs to get a grip! Tennant will NOT be regenerating in this series. He has been photographed filming the Christmas special and is confirmed as being signed on for the specials that will air throughout 2009. GET OFF THAT TOPIC. Secondly, who thnks up some of these theories? The one above about the Doctor remembering Adric and then calling back Romana and "solving the Timelord problem" - are you MAD? As if RTD, Moffat and the BBC are going to throw away the good work they have done making New Who a national institution by resolving story points in the new series with 30 year-old continuity that only hardcore nerds are even aware of? No kid watching Who today would understand a word of what you're talking about. You can say to them "that's the Master, he's an evil version of the Doctor" - fine. But you couldn't explain the guff you're spouting if you had 20 minutes and a Dr Who handbook. Get over yourselves! (and thirdly, I don't believe for a second that Song is the Doctor in a future regeneration. That is so thick it doesn't even merit ridicule).
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Jun 05, 2008 11:00:35 AM CDT
Maybe it's a future version of the sonic screw driver
by crichtonastronut
that's been modified by the Doctor.
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