Cool News
Weirdness on BATTLEFIELD EARTH'
Ok folks, first off we'll have to be wary of the folks out there in the world that want to spread bad rumors about the film solely on account of the fact that.... Well... L Ron Hubbard wrote the novel, and is the father of Scientology. And there are ALOT of anti-scientologists. BUT.... Does that mean you can't trust any of the bad news? Well, not exactly. I've read the script, and didn't really care for it that much, and the only anger at Scientologists I have is for the have billion "Come Get Your IQ Tested" papers they hand out, out by the University of Texas here in Austin. And ya know.... I'm not really upset about that. So remember... take the following with a grain of salt or an entire bag full.... The following is... RUMOR...
Yo! Talking from Montreal. I have an aquaintence working on the BATTLEFIELD EARTH film up here and the word is that 1) Forrest
Whitaker(?) ran a mile when he read the script and saw his meager pay packet for acting in said godawful script. 2) at the time of writing, wierd
and whacky costumes designed by Patrick Totopolus(?) of Independance Day fame had been sliced and diced because of budget cuts. Now
the wierd and whacky aliens inhabiting earth will have ankle-length coats to hide the fact their ain't no budget to dress them.
Just like that, you should see the aliens... boy what a hoot! Do you remember that awful film with Dan Akroyd about aliens with tall, bald,
egg-heads living on earth. Well... Travolta and co. will be hairy egg-heads in Gucci leather coats!
The director of the film, Roger Christian (famous for cinematographic epics such as... exactly what has the guy done?) (HARRY NOTE: WELL HE DID DO SECOND UNIT ON STAR WARS EPISODE ONE) was so worried about
finances - or rather lack of - he flew off to Cannes armed with animations, pictures and promises to try and drum up the other HALF of the
budget (I just hope he didn't take the script!). He had boasted when he first came here that if ever there was any problem, Mr. Lucas esq. would
jump to his help but it seems the great one is too busy on damage control to his catastrophic sci-fi opus.
The funny thing about all that is that although the budget is in trouble, it seems Mr. Travolta still wants his $21,000,000 fee for acting in the film.
Just one question: how come aliens from other planets always have two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears and one month, and talk American?
The Informant
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Wow, I'm first!
I tried reading "Battlefield Earth", the book, when it first came out, but found it dreadful to read. Others may disagree.
However, my point is, there are plently of poor movies based on good books, what happens when the book isn't that good in the first place?
I would not condemn a movie based soley on a poor budget - 'Phantom Menance" had a huge budget, but it held no magic for me (please, no flames - I am not Star wars "bashing" here, i simply did not like the movie).
But in this case, the basic material, plot line, story, etc, falls flat in the book. I know therre was a whole series of "BattleFeild Earth" books there were "bestsellers", but then the Friday the 13th movies made huge bucks, so high profits, IMO, are not an indication of quaility.
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Ah, scientology. A religion based on the science fiction writings of a wannabe author and embraced by hollywoods elitist and shallow "mechanical animals". Travolta confuses me because if the rumor is true of him wanting 21 mil on this guaranteed box office bomb, that just shows how greed works. Greed is good like Gordon Gekko said. and Travolta won't even take a paycut for his preciouse little pet project. What a hack. Scientology is possibly one of the most dangerous cults out there. I call it a cult. Period. My reasons are too many to list so I'll finish with this, I would rather mop the floors at a peep show than watch this Battlefield Earth bullshit. And all you reading this should do the same. Scientology is Evil. Don't believe me? Look into it, do some homework, reasearch your ass off and see what comes up. Some scary shit, people. Trust me. El Guapo Out!
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Perhaps someone will back me up, I'm not 100% certains about this, but isn't scientology based on Hubbard's book "Dianetics" and has nothing to do with his other science fiction work? I've read "Battlefield Earth," and I rather enjoyed it. I've enjoyed many of Hubbard's novels. But what do they have to do with scientology? Nothing, as far as I can tell. I'm not defending the scientology "religion" in any way, I just don't think it's connected to his novels.
And with regards to the first post here, "Battlefield Earth" was not a series of books. It was one 1000 page novel. I think it's easily confused with Hubbard's "Mission: Earth" series, which was ten books in length. I've never read the "Mission:Earth" books, but I don't think the stories have anything to do with "Battlefield Earth." -
I love cinematic train wrecks. HEAVEN'S GATE? Fascinating in its excess. CLEOPATRA? What costumes! What sets! What in Yahweh's name name were they thinking? So, if this news is true (it's certainly not hard to believe,) BATTLEFIELD EARTH could be that special kind of awful that we so rarely see. I'll tell you, though, I'm quite amused at the idea of Travolta, dutiful Scientoligist that he is, knowing that this is going to be a tight budget, still demanding his ridiculously high salary. Just as Scientology bilks funds from its followers, Travolta will bleed this production, meant as a tribute to the ideals (if there really are any) of L. Ron Hubbard, completely dry. But not so dry that they can't make the film. What would be the fun in that? BTW, if you want to take a gander at Roger Christian's directorial "talents," check out MASTERMINDS, which stars a slumming Patrick Stewart. That might be a better assessment of his skills than his work on THE PHANTOM MENACE.
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I hope I speak for the other poor souls out there that read Battlefield Earth and loved the hell out of it, when I say that if they screw this movie up and commercialize it, they will die by our hands. Oh, and give Tatopolous a good kick in the ass and send him off that project. I liked his work on Dark City.. but he had better not touch this project, he'll ruin it I tell you!!
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Scientologists are scary people! They will stalk you and make your life misreable if you doubt their "good intentions". Their whole manifest is based on a failed science fiction writer who made a bet with Alister Crowley that he could create a religion to control people on a bet! This movie will self-destruct before it even gets made because of the egos and greed involved.
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He's a very gifted multi-talented man. He designed and built all the small ALIEN lifeforms in the first alien. Yes, HE and not GIGER designed the facehugger and chestbuster. He's still sore about this... He is a really good director, see THE SENDER (a small jewel) or even his NOSTRADAMUS (okay with some really good stuff). He's a Brit or a Canadian... That's what I know.
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I can't wait!!! Bring it on! This is the tribute to L.Ron Hubbard that the world needs to see...cheesy bad moviemaking to compliment his horrific hack prose.
And yes, Scientology will harass you if you speak out against them. Watch some scientologists picket me at my home at www.xenutv.com -
May 30, 1999 11:20:05 AM CDT
This will do the opposite of what Pulp Fiction did for him....
by bob the tomato
I have the script in my hands and I have one thing to say......IT IS HORRENDOUS!! Not that the book was any good anyway, that stupid SOB Hubbard is destroying America. Look at Tom Cruise and his incessant abuse to John Woo on the set of MI2 because Woo is a Christian unlike Cruise and his devotion to the vomit inducing "religion" know as scientology. Tatopolous can't save this flick neither can Tattersall. This is Travolta's last flick, in the way that Postman screwed Costner this will destroy Travolta I guarantee.
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Are you more interested in film of fame?
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I find it really hard to believe this movie's having BUDGET problems. Travolta is very nearly Scientology's poster boy- the lost soul who gets clear and resuscitates his career. And the Church can't find a couple of dozen million for him to make a book based on one of Ronny Boy's sci-fi epics? Puh-lease. This thing has a lot going against it- unfilmable source material, a director who isn't exactly the next Ridley Scott (or even Tony Scott), etc. etc. etc. But budget problems?
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Oddly enough I actualy liked the book, good premis - and at least in my minds eye - would make a cool movie.
Most won't agree with me, I'm a big fan of technology culture clash plot lines. I like alternate history bits, like Aztech's figuring out how to make muskets when Cortez runs home and leaves his canons and muskets and poweder, etc.
So the idea of a degenerated human race, returned to hunter gatheres status after an envasion several generations later - rediscovering their own past and technologies - as well as those of their would be exterminators - is just a "cool thing"[TM] to me.
Yes it's an LRH "thing", Yes this movie will be a huge movie - because just like the book the masses of his followers will be sent out with orders to buy out entire theaters for weeks.
Yes Scientology is Crowly's Black Magick Order with different verbage, yes Hubbard claimed to be the successor to Crowly - who gives a rats ass? I could care less what faith anyone involved in this is - this IS america after all ( ok well it is for me and a good lot of the posters to the site ) So I'll wait to see what this flick is like, If the visuals and the general plot can be pulled off - all the better. If it's a giant pice of banter fodder - well it still gets good box office numbers and the world gets a few more folks signing up for mind control classes. I mean whats worse - them or us Star Wars freaks :P -
May 30, 1999 11:54:54 AM CDT
Harry, a lot is two words, not one, El Guapo, I am a devout Scie
by wittman
I am tired of people picking on my religion. We are a happy people. Why do you all fear and bother us? Is it because we are rich and powerful? I apologize for my inherited wealth. It is not my fault my family is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And, frankly, stop crapping on travolta. I met the guy at a party three years ago and he was very kind, despite my gawking. By the way, Harry, do you even check these spy reports for spelling errors? That guy made a few too many. of course, you can't even spell right, so who knows? I gotta go, time to have my blood drained...toodle loo!!!
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I can't believe you people believe it could do well, trust me I gurantee you the test screenings will induce laughter and the sudden realization that being in a car accident would be more fun. Trust me, it will have as much negative buzz as Star Wars had hype.
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Tommyboy needs to be knocked around a bit so he can come to his senses. Either that or be forced to have sex with that hypocrite Rosie O'Donnell. I mean real NASTY SEX WITH HER! But, that would never happen as everyone knows his marriage is a sham anyway. Mr. Woo can kick Tommyboy's ass any day of the week and I would love to hold his coat while doing so!
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Well, your message really hit the spot. Woo is the most talented man in Hollywood and Cruise has the biggest ego. I can't believe what he is doing to Woo. That's not right.
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Yes, most of the posters make perjorative references to Scientology, but if you think thats vicious, wait'll you see what happens to their Websites and E-Mail addresses after Darth Hubbard, every closeted has-been scientologist actor, and the Uber Lawyers chomping at the bit for a lawsuit get ahold of 'em.
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I am in no way scared of scientology....Darth Hubbard couldn't get rid of my site. My thousands of readers would come to my new location...it's that simple.
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The whole thing is made up, surprised?
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The whole thing is made up, surprised?
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Scientology is nothing but a failed religion made on a bet by Aliester Crowley(The devil worshipper.) Last time I checked, we live in AMERICA where we have a thing called FREEDOM OF SPEACH! Get the truth about scientology and read Russell Miller's- "Bare Faced Messiah-The Story of L. Ron Hubbard." It'll open your eyes! What a shame that Greta Van Sussen is one too! Her and her ambulance chasing laywer husband! What do they talk about at the government functions? Great god, Teegeack? Also, anyone who picks on some of the spelling or grammar on Harry's posts is petty. Its the idea of what the person is trying to say that you miss.
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Well, this thread is going to be a tad acrimonius.
Battlefield Earth, the book, is frankly unreadable drek, even by the standards of pre-Cambellian ('40's) science fiction. It was a technical "best seller" because the followers of Hubbard were strongly encouraged to buy the things in bulk; this is documented fact, hotly contested. Why this thing is on the shelf to this day is a testimony to the power of money in the publishing biz.
Well, unreadable drek has been made into movies before, but in this case the movie has too many things going against it. The dialog is horrifying (using the source as a guide), the plot insipid (compared to other, really polished works out there), Travolta arrogant, and lastly of all, even tho Sc*y has a presence in the entertainment community, too many people have been burned by the organization. People shy away from association with it.
Americans may have a lazzi-faire attitude towards belief systems, but they DO have a problem with lawsuits, intimidation, black propaganda, ad-hominem attacks, and similar.
One wonders why anyone would harbor such strong opinions about this subject. Well, it ain't a "religious" argument -- no one cares what they believe, really, atom-bombed volcanoes notwithstanding. It's the way they've treated people, and criticism, for fifty years. They've earned the anger.
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Am I the only one who saw that episode of Millenium with the thinly veiled caricature of Lil' Ronnie and his team of lawyers, it also had David Duchovny in the John Travolta role as a has-been actor who sold his soul for storebought fame. Now thats some funny shit.
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Lucas is too busy with "damage control" on his "catastrophic sci-fi opus"? What the hell kind of damage control are you talking about, you moron! The last time I checked (which was Thursday, so I'm not even taking this weekend into consideration) Episode One had grossed over $140 million. I don't think George Lucas has to worry about damage control.
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Harry don't you have ENOUGH REAL news for AITC readers to browse through? Lately, you've been posting too many of these self serving little tirades. And the bigotry expressed in this area shames me. Scientology is like Amway, except you don't sell soap. But then most religions are schemes/scams one way or another This site isn't the time or place for religious discussion...this is where we are suppose to be hanging out to find out about cool movies.
BTW Reese Mason is alive.
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Excellent posting, Dr. Ennui. I think it should be just about the last word in this particular Talk Back. It won't be, of course. As usual, nobody will read what other people have said before them, so the same illiterate postings will be made over, and over, and over again.... And that Wittman guy had better have been joking. What a prick! Assuming he's serious, he seems to think that people hate Scientology just because it has a few wealthy members. Moron. Dr. Ennui touched on the real reasons for our distaste for this cult. Wittman only confirms our suspicions by saying, "We are a happy people. Why do you all fear and bother us?" Quite the mix of sci-fi/historical persecution cliches, with an appropriate touch of arrogance. Personally, I think he was just posting to say (lie?) about how rich he is. And he wonders why we dislike Scientologists! People who inherit wealth are inherently talentless. You see, there's no incentive for self-improvement of any kind. You end up an arrogant little good-for-nothing (just like Wittman!), blowing your family's fortune on classy prostitutes, heroin, and, above all, horridly stupid investments.
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OK, a quick analysis:
The poster is a Scientologist, and an offical one at that. The keyword to look for is "bigotry", a term used almost exclusively by damage-controllers rated to handle flaps. Believe me, I know.
Sci*s are, for the most part, aware that they are not supposed to handle PR flaps on the Internet - that is reserved for appointed specialists. Heck, Sc*ists aren't even supposed to look at unsanctioned sites on the web - they're supposed to use an officially distributed filter to prevent them from seeing anything "entheta". Sadly, I suppose Harry's site is going to get on the filter list now.
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Okay people, what exactly is scientology? Are they the people who think God is going to land on a comet or something? -
Harry has created a fantastic site and no one is going to punish him for having people express their opinions! WE STAND BY HARRY!
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Scientology is *not* a religion -- it is a dangerous, exploitative business! Any religion based on space aliens living inside our bodies and impriosened inside volcanoes (thetans, xenu, etc.) is more than spooky.
Visit http://www.xenu.net to learn more.
-Eric -
May 30, 1999 2:59:41 PM CDT
Why can't every religion have respect for other peoples beliefs
by paragonian
I don't know any religions that do either of these too things and that's why I'm an aethiest. All the religions spread threats, hate, contempt and misinformation about other religions. I think there's a lot of people that don't want this movie to be made and this reviewer is definitly one of them.
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I read Battlefield earth many years ago when I was in fifth grade. Because I lived out in TheMiddleofNowhere, TX, I had not heard of Mr. L Ron or Scientology by that point. Despite being too young to recognize hackery, despite being untainted by accusations concerning Scientology and L Ron, I STILL THOUGHT THIS BOOK ATE MY ASS!!! Seriously, a ten-year old with no "biggotted" preconceptions of the author found this book to be terrible. Making this piece of crap into a movie will be a sin - spend the money on charity, not an ego.
Other interesting things that I learned throughout the years concerning L Ron: 1) The "decalogy" (Mission:Earth) is frightening, using as a literary tool graphic stories of old men with hug penises raping young boys and servants; 2) L Ron, in an apparent fit of psychological normalcy, lived in hiding "somewhere" on his boat for a number of years; 3) On this boat was a corps of rarely-clothed virginal girls who brought him food (when he wasn't eating his own excriment) 4) If a man touched one of the girls, the punishment was banishment to the air conditioner system for undisclosed time periods; 5) the earlier bit about the bet between L Ron and Crowley is true. Why would anyone want to see a movie that was essentially written by this man?
Two last notes. 1)If I hear one more meally-mouthed Scientology wining about bigottry and oppression, I'm going to shoot myself. Why don't you quit thinking about yourself for half a second and open your eyes to real bigottry and perception in the world today. I don't recall seeing any Scientologists being dumped in ditches for mass extermination! 2) Harry, seek legal counsel immediately because you will probably be sued by at least one person for allowing this type of "discriminatory" language to be posted on your site. Be afraid, be very afraid. -
Wow, I didn't know 'American' was a language.
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Someone once told me, perhaps as a joke, that it was Frank Herbert. He and Hubbard, two novelists discussing religion, made a bet to see who could create a more convincing religion... Herbert wrote "Dune"... Hubbard apparently didn't realize Herbert was talking about writing NOVELS and wrote "Dianetics"...
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Its a cult, whose followers are known to practice extortion and other illegal activities. These aren't just bad seeds, they are given the support from the central church of scientology, whatever its called. Interesting fact: scientologists went out in droves and bought up all the copies of L Ron Hubbard's books to put him on the bestsellers list. Seems obvious, cause who would actually pay money for his crap?
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Wow, this article on BATTLEFIELD has really kicked up a storm in a tea cup. All I can say that is that if this scientologist religion is so fair, so equal, why, on their web page, do they go on and on about man. Equality for man... the right for man to do this that and the other... for man to realise this and that... for man... blah blah blah. Well, maybe its me and my sensitive self but the last time I looked there was a species called woman on this earth. Don't they figure in the scientology dream? -
it was with him he made the bet. Maybe it was filtered down and Herbert's name was brought up instead, but it was Crowley. Hubbard's group all used to live together in the same house on Orange Grove in Pasadena. Jack Parsons, his wife a few others. Crowley would visit them from time to time dispensing his Black Magick at the OTO. Hubbard had an affair with Parsons wife, Betty. Jack Parsons was one of the chief braniacs at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena until he "mysteriously" blew himself up. Also, for a "religion" to persecute outsiders, they should look at themselves first. L. Ron Hubbard's son was homosexual who later committed suicide.
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The poster "Wittman" claims to be a devout follower of Scientology. I personally beleive there are two groups of people in this cult, the scammers who run this global crime organization and the suckers who give them money and honestly beleive in it. Most of the following information is taken from a Time magazine article by Richard Behar...
Scientology is based a bit on Hubbard's decree that humans are made up of clusters of spirits called Thetans who were exiled to planet Earth 75 million years ago by the Galactic Emperor Xenu. (You can probably tell from this lame basis for a religion how poor a writer he was. I personally think he started this as a joke or else he was one sick bastard).
Vicki Aznaran, a former top leader of Scientology admitted that "This is a criminal organization, day in and day out."
Now, Hubbard got into trouble in 1971 as a result of some bogus medical claims, and he sought first-amendment protection for his science fiction cosmology, which suddenly became a "religion". Hubbard promptly began to skim millions of dollars from his own church. He died before he could be brought to trial.
The Cult Awareness Network says they get more telephone pleas for help because of Scientology than any other cult. "It is quite likely the most ruthless, terroristic, and most lucrative cult the country has ever seen," says the network's director, Cynthia Kisser.
Now, I'm not bashing those people who are Scientologists, because I really do beleive there are honest people who are giving their money away for their beleifs. I'm just trying to warn others that this is a really dangerous thing to mess with. Scientologists have been known to stalk, fabricate criminal charges and lawsuits against their political enemies, so watch out please! -
y'know whats scarier than a tiny cult with some actors in it? a great big cult with some extremists in it that think anyone who doesnt agree with them is going to take over the world. i dont know jack crap about scientology but does little aliens living in our bodies sound anymore ridiculous than an invisible man, living in the sky who knows everything about everything, and if you do bad bad things you go to a bad bad place thats REAL hot. oh and this invisible mabn always needs cash so be sure to give on sunday! my thanks to george carlin!
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Cooker, you apparently know nothing of christianity either, nor have you read my post through. I regret people like you posting because it makes me restate what has already been said. If only people like you would take the time to actually read posts!! Argh...
What differentiates Scientology from other beleifs isn't what the followers beleive. I have NO DOUBT that a typical scientologists faith is every bit as strong as a muslim or catholic or hindu. The thing about Scientology is the people who run it. The big difference is that it was started as a JOKE by a science fiction writer to save his own ass from IRS trouble! -
nooope, hadnt read your post when i wrote mine cause, well yours wasnt up yet. Thanks for the warning about this cult though, I come here hoping for such lifesaving ( or would you call it soul saving) info.
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I can only say with the utmost certainty that Battlefield Earth will be a real stinker. How should I know, you may ask? Well, I live in Montreal and the last time Hollywood came here to make a movie, it ended up with something called Snake Eyes. Need I say more? I was an extra for that horrid DePalma film and any 'big' budget film that comes here is automatically certified as a disaster. My experience during Snake Eyes was soooooo fucking terrible that it cured my curiousity in participating in any 'real' film production for the rest of my life. I love my city but unfortunately only Hollywood hacks with loser projects decide to shoot anything here, because everything is relatively cheap compared to the U.S.A. and that includes the plentiful hookers and drugs. Snake Eyes was a scam of a movie ('We've got the money and a Star signed, so quick, let's come up with a screenplay' the producers said...) and Battlefield Earth sounds like another write off.
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OK, these discussions have reminded me of something that's always puzzled me about the history to Hubbard's religion. A common story is that the religion was started on a bet, as has been mentioned here several times. But, if you read the Time article about it so many years ago, I believe it says (this from memory) that it started as a pseudo-psychiatric treatment technique, and only switched to religious status after having some government medical tax break revoked. If the latter was the case, then it seems unlikely it started on a bet, since it would've already been started considerably before becoming a religion. The other variant I have read was that the "it's easy to start a religion" conversation did indeed happen, but it was a decade or more before and was just idle musing, not a challenge or bet. Can anyone reconcile this? (BTW, I don't see this qualifying as "bashing". It's just a question, though admittedly somewhat off-topic. I could equally have been asking a question about the "indulgences" that were sold by the Roman Catholic church in Martin Luther's time.) My other bonus question would be: when did they adopt Christian icons (i.e. a cross) and what's it supposed to signify to them?
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May 30, 1999 6:28:21 PM CDT
Hey there, MR. NICE GUY: Just some thoughts on inherited wealth!
by wittman
I am not a truth bender in the least. My family happens to be VERY well off. the truth is that my family got very rich off of many different industries, but this was long before I ever got the knowledge of how and where. Safe to say, I was born into this life. Luck of the draw, folks! I can't help it if I don't have to work a day in my life or a lift a finger. And yet, I get to go anywhere and do anything I feel like. What's Dylan say in "Idiot Wind?" "I can't help it if I'm lucky..."
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Some people in here are defending scientology because they say we have a little thing in our country called Freedom of Religion. This I do not dispute. I also believe in Freedom of The Press. How come you can publish anything you want about the Catholic church, the Baptist Church, hell, even the Buddist church, and not have those groups trying their hardest to shut you down completly like The "Church" of Scientology does? You can look up anything on the above named religions. But try to find out anything on the Cult Scientology? Good Luck. If you have problems, you can walk into your local church, listen to a sermon (FOR FREE), and talk to a pastor. That's it. It won't cost you a cent. "But ElGuapo", you say, "All religions are like Cults". If you honestly believe that, you are really naive. You are a likely candidate for this Scientology shit. If someone wants to leave, say, The Lutheran Church, the lutheran church won't pester you to come back like scientology. With scientology, you pay $100-200 for a "reading" and when you leave, you end up owing the "cult" thousands of dollars in back "fees" for their "e-meter" readings or whatever they call 'em. To reach salvation in Scientology, you have to pay out of the ass millions of dollars. Does'nt this sound a little spotty to any of you? Can someone Please defend this? Post away please. You new age wackos with your coffee and peppermint enemas and books on dolphins and rainbows need to get a grip on reality. Hubbard was a loser. the goverment wanted him bad. he lived on a fucking boat to escape persucution. Our goverment, as well as other governments wanted Hubbard for fraud, irony abounds, the same man wanted for fraud goes on to build a following that lives on after he leaves this earth and the goverment accepts his "teachings" as acceptable in the laws of the country, tax exempt. Heh heh. God Bless America.
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It went something like this: Aleister Crowley became the head of a splinter group of the Golden Dawn and also the head of the OTO, a tantric based sex-magick group. L Ron Hubbard and Jack Parsons of the Caltech Jet Propulsion Laboratory were both students of Aleister Crowley. Crowley's opus: The Equinox - had for its theme "The method of science, the aim of religion" From this Hubbard devised the name Scientology... Science and theology... Hubbard "stole" many of Crowley's ideas, made them a bit more mainstream, and asold them to the public. While he was at it he also stole Parsons wife, but that is another tale...
As far as Battlefield Earth goes; I read the book when it first came out 20 years ago or so, and I recall enjoying it... I think its on the same level as "To Cage A Man"... not particularly deep but a storyline that makes you proud to be a human... in a Buck Rogers universe.
In case any is wondering: yes! I am both a fan of Aleister Crowley and a fan of science fiction, and I have created a religion or two of my own! :-) -
Please name one book on mental health that was released in the same year as Dianetics, 1950, and is still around and used today. Can't? Nuff said. Dianetics and Scientology works. That's why there are Scientologists in this world. You sad Hubbard bashers can go on going to your psychiatrists and getting your psyche drugs and becoming a homicidal threat to society like one of the Columbine High killers. While I can go on to become a nice drug free productive citizen. Someone earlier posted the word "entheta," so let me define it for those that don't know: "It refers to communications, which, based on lies and confusions, are slanderous, choppy or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group." There is a lot of "entheta" on this board. By the way, Scientology is a religion as acknowledged by the courts in the U.S. and around the world.
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Mr. Hogg: the distinction between Scientologists and non-Scientologists are which ones are the psychopathic drug users? (OK, not precisely what you said, but just as ridiculous.) Who's being the bigot here? If you stoop to the lowest attacks in retaliation, you do nothing for your cause. It certainly lacks finesse at the least. In fact, your response is the very stereotype that offends you.
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How come scientologists cannot function outside of their little "safe space"?. Any religion that alienates you from your family and separates you from the outside world is WRONG. True religion may criticize society, but on the other hand it accepts it. The Jonestown tragedy happened because the Rev. Jones took people away from their families, brainwashed them, took their money, and in the end, forced them to commit mass suicide. Scientology destroys lives. Can you take your family to a scientology meeting? Not without a major credit card. Aliens in our bodies put there millions of years ago by an outside visitor? Bad science fiction turned "Religion" Someone above posted something from Carlin talking about giving money to an invisible man in the sky. Money? Excuse me, but to join a church you do NOT have to give money, you CAN bring your family, you ARE not subjected to slavery, you are ABLE to funcion as a citizen, open to outside ideals and beliefs. Scientologists say that anyone not accepting them is Evil.. Well, I guess that makes me one Evil ass son of a bitch. All of you posting anything against Scientolgy is EVIL. You don't understand! You HAVE ALIENS IN YOUR BODY..YOU NEED TO GIVE ALL OF YOUR MONEY TO THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY NOW! I don't worry about scientology because I believe in my fellow American (both men and women) and their ability to make the right decision. I trust people to sniff out the bad from the good. Dianetics is a crock. I am not able to argue about something I know nothing about which is Psychology. But I really don't see normal people using Dianetics on a regular basis. I see more copies of "Men are from Mars..." than Dianetics. There are more self help books out there that do more good than dianetics. Besides, God does'nt need money...Money is given to keep a church going. To pay for overhead costs and maintenence. Churches give to the needy and contribute to the community. Here in San Antonio when we had a flood, my church gave thousands of dollars to needy familys. When my mother was in the damn hospital, our pastor visited her. Why? Because He cared about the members of his congregation, that's why. I don't see scientology doing that. They are kept secret, underground. You can't vistit them without a credit check. The Church of scientology does NOT contribute to the society, instead...It works to keep society out. And that my friends, is the sad truth.
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I hope Bowfinger shows a glimpse of how ridiculous Scientology is. It's funny, because Steve Martin did Leap of Faith, a while ago, which was a ficional expose of faith-scam-healers. I learned a lot of new stuff about Scientology. Thanks, guys.
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Whenever you encounter a "religion" with a system of degrees based on secrets and "esoteric knowledge", beware. When that religion has a system of fees, you have a bona-fide CULT. All the posts about Hubbard's connections to master satanist Al (the beast, 666) Crowley are absolutely correct. One of Hubbard's sons openly acknowledges that Ron was into hard drugs and satanic ritual! Most criticism in the press focuses on the cash that scientology drains from its members...well, that is very valid, but ah...shouldn't we be more worried about the fact that people are being duped into embracing satan??? Oh, I forgot, the only real test of whether a religion is valid or not is how good it makes you feel. Like their counterparts in the new age movement, these types are blissfully unaware of the dark, ugly roots that their glittery religion was originally founded upon. "Don't bother me with the truth about what the pretty words and phrases really mean; just make me feel good"....
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"Lots of 'entheta' on this board?" Yeah, well tell it to the Germans! They didn't want scientology in their country and its easy to see why! Oh, and blaming the kids at Columbine High School because they were sociopaths and drug enducers, better look again. Its called rearing a child or lack of in the Columbine situation.
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May 31, 1999 1:22:54 AM CDT
"Scientology is a religion as acknowledged by the courts in the
by calix
"Scientology is a religion as acknowledged by the courts in the U.S. and around the world"?
Don't think so: just look at the Netherlands and Germany and probably any middle eastern country. Your concept of "the world" is rather small mister Hogg. -
I was under the impression that L Ron was dead when a lot of his books came out (includung battlefield earth). Is this true? Did he write all of those books?
(I did find Battlefield Earth a good read, but thought the last third was so bad , you would not let Arnold Rimmer read it).
Scientolagy: Comming from the a Catholic upbringing, Scientology is scary. Not because it is a religion, but it seems to be concirded with money making. While the Catholic Church has lots of money and land, they also run schools, hospitals, charities , provide age care (like that given to my recienly deceased grandmother) and other things. In Australia, I dont see scientolagy doing this.
Where does the money go? -
There is indeed a great deal of misinformation in this chain- for instance, that Aleister Crowley was a 'satanist'. Anton LeVey is a Satanist; Crowley was an occultist. And to say that Hubbard 'stole' or 'borrowed' concepts from Crowley when he came up with Scientology is pretty insulting. Perverted would be a far better word. The fact of the matter is, Scientology is really no different than the Order of Assassins, the Templars, the Illuminati, early Freemasonic lodges etc. All were extremely insular belief systems that had enormous amounts of temporal power in their heyday, but were broken by the REALLY big boys when they got too big for their britches. Scientology is just the latest blip on the screen. I mean c'mon people, if Licio Gelli couldn't pull it off, what makes you think a hack like Hubbard could?
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I awake to find 9(!) emails, all basically saying the same thing- Im going to burn. Because Im a lazy heathen Ill answer them all here rather than individually. Thank you for your concern and/or condemnation. Your efforts, while appreciated, are unnecessary. You neednt continue to flood my email with scripture. Good luck in wiping this evil cult from the face of your Gods green earth. Perhaps you should have another crusade? storm into theaters when this film opens, armed with religious pamphlets and give gruesome paper cuts to all nonbelievers.
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...as are most coordinated groups of people with any common cause, whether they're Republicans, Democrats, Trekkies or circus midgets. Quite frankly, Christians and Scientologists deserve each other. Thank you for listening!
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All I can say is that if the movie is anything like the book, it will be one of the most revered pieces of bad film making in all the anals of Hollywood.
L. Wrong Hubbard's book came to my attention long before i ever knew what $cientology was (see http://www.xenu.net and don't forget to "click on the clams"!) and as an avid reader I made the mistake of purchasing this poor excuse for emergency toilet paper just before boarding a flight.
I love sci-fi. I love horror. I like mystery and suspense. I read non-fiction also. At one time I thought I could get through anything. Hell! I made it through Stephen King's "Delores Claiborne" and believe me, that is saying something.
I have read and enjoyed sci fi from any number of authors including Jack L. Chalker (Midnight at the Well of Souls is one of the best sci-fi novels I have ever read!) to Isaac Asimov to some of the better (read older) Alan Dean Foster.
I have to say that Battlefield Earth was a book I simply could not get through. The language was all stilted in the superfluous prose style that only L. Wrong Hubbard could manage to get published (and then only because his "church" owned the publisher).
There is no way that a movie made from this crap will be any sort of blockbuster for anything other than the bad film awards. To salvage it they would have to rip a few pages out of the novel it was based on (starting with page one and going through to the end) and keep only the title.
Anyone that knows anything about "Xenu" and Hubbard's bait and switch "body thetans" can quickly see the parallels between his later sci fi work and his "religion". For a real kick, look closely at the cover of the book and notice the resemblance of the red headed hero on the cover to Hubbard.
Sorry folks....Battefield Earth is made from turkey and will therefore be a turkey. -
If there hasn't been a good enough example of the delusionary mental effects of Scientology, just take a quick gander at Mr. Hogg's post. How sad to be betrayed by your own words, Hogg. His mentally unstable comments included remarks to the effect that all non-Scientologists are responsible for violence and the Columbine shootings, while only Scientologists are good, productive citizens. Hah! Hogg, maybe you should go ask your Galactic Emperor Xenu for wisdom because you sound like a rambling moron.
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LUCAS! Think about it! Humans are made up of clusters of spirits called "Thetans", Jedis have midi-chlorians living in all their "living" cells. Concidence? You decide!
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Hubbard could be Lucas in disguise...therefore, if Darth is Luke's dad and the midicholrians are inside all of us then if I search inside myself............
'NOOOOO, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!" -
All right, first off, I think I need to do a bit of explaining my position here. So forgive me for the boring background information. First of all, I'm a sci-fi fan and I know that's the only requisite to post here. I wouldn't place myself at the level of "geek" but I do enjoy to be whisked off to a "galaxy, far, far away..." as much as anyone. I've also hated a lot of sci-fi for being just too ridiculous and overall not good reading. Furthermore, I've had quite a checkered religious past along my path to becoming a proud Atheist. Along that way, I encounted Scientology and was a member of it, for a brief period of about two years or so. I left due to the rigid nature of the personell and some of the more "gestapo-like" practices within the church. This might have been the particular organization I was with deviating from the main purpose of Hubbard. At any rate, I can say fairly sure that I can be considered somewhat knowledgable about the religion known as Scientology. First and foremost, yes, it is a religion, the US courts have approved them, several countries have endorsed them with open arms. And as for the German thing, well the Germans have a bit of a sordid history for their unaccepting nature, now don't they? At any rate, I've always wondered how people can freely mock the chosen faith of Scientology while every other religion has safegaurds to mock. And if you think that isn't true, just try to go up to a Christian minister and tell him "I think your religion is a sham and a joke." Hell, I've no doubt that some of you are insulted by me saying that right here. That's ok, you're allowed to be hypocritical and bigots. Unfortunately, that's part of the "f-word," I mentioned in the title of this post. That "f-word" is "freedom." And it allows Scientologist to be of their own faith as much as they want. Because that's their choice. Now, some of Ronnie's teachings are a little out there, that bit about the aliens and exiling thetans to Earth and all that... I don't buy it. But he's also hit upon some truly enlightening theories that have at least helped me out with life. Of course, these theories could have been thought up by just about any really intelligent person with a knowledge of philosophy, but the fact is that HE did it. I've heard the rumor of Crowley the satanist/occultist and I think it's all a crock of bull. I've also seen how you should visit such and such website to educate yourself or contact the Cult Awareness Network. Don't bother, try one of their courses (I suggest the Openness to Communication one or something. It won't tell you anything about thetans or anything, I think). I know they're expensive, but they're no more expensive than ... say the donations you give to your church. That's the best way to "educate yourself" at any rate. Furthermore, listen to yourself. You're attacking this religion simply on the basis of hearsay. There was another religion that got made fun of on the basis of it being what it is. It was called "Christianity." And I know a whole bunch of you probably belong to that formerly called "cult." To wrap this whole rant up, if you're going to be "American," then be "Fully American." Follow that little thing we call a "Bill of Rights" and respect the "freedom to religion" ammendment. You can trash a relgion all you want in verbal or typed format. That's also protected. But you can't discriminate due to another person choosing that religion. And millions have chosen Scientology. This is the land of the free, right? Ahh, it's okay, I'm sure my current atheist kick secures me a spot in hell all the same.
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Lets all think here... Travolta said he wanted to do this movie FOR A DECADE! Do you actually think that once he got the chance to he'd mess it up? If the company wants to cut back on the budget, Travolta would've complained bad, and nobody has said anything about that. And, lets think... Would he make the character he's playing look as bad as possible? I don't think so...
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Here's a tidbit that every body should know, especially after reading these posts. The Cult Awareness Network was bankrupted and then bought by the Church of scientology. It is now a mouth piece for that group. Don't believe them. The Chuch of Scientology is a cult in the classic sense of the word. It hasn't recieved mainstream acceptance (it may have recieved governmental, but not sociatal). All reliogions, especially Christianity have started out as cults. However, Scientology is evil because it promises salvation through money. Indulgances in medieval times were not like that. They promised to reduce time in purgatory. If you were going to hell, you were going to hell, same for heaven. And as to Hollywood Scientologists, they are given a different version than the masses. They are anoither arm of the deception that is scientology. Be wary of any group that promises salvation, research and come to your own conclusion. Don't be a follower, be a believer
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I love the casual reference to Star Wars as a "catastrophe" in need of "damage control." Lets see. The film has made over 200 million dollars faster than any movie in the history of the planet. Its been out 11 days and its already in the top 25 movies of ALL TIME. But Lucas is worriedly engaged in "damage control" for this "catastrophic" film? Why? Because a handful of critics with Pauline Kael's disease wanted to prove how cool they were by dissing the movie?Or because some dork on aintitcoolnews gave it an obscenity-laced bad review. Meanwhile Cinemascore gives it an A- and every teenager in the country is already planning on seeing it three more times. Yes I'm sure Lucas is shaking in his boots about how to manage "damage control" due to the "negative buzz" being generated by the losers on Harry Knowles supposedly all-powerful website. Where does Harry find you clueless people?
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Guy #3, one flaw with your suggestion: AFAIK, in Christian churches and churches of many other faiths (which seem to be ignored here... why is it a whole Christian-vs.-Scientology thing?) donations are not a *necessary* condition for being informed on the mandates and tenets, attending services, etc. The less forthcoming an organisation (religious, social, etc.) is, the more nervous it makes people. I find it really bizarre, personally, that Scientology sues to keep their doctrine secret. Most religions purport to offer enlightenment, and it is my understanding that Scientology says that they do as well. The curious difference is the price tag that's attached to Scientology's enlightenment. Most other religions you couldn't get to shut up. While it's true that other religions take in money, they do not, as a rule, make it a condition of salvation. FWIW, the claim that Scientologists are taught that outsiders are not to be trusted sounds quite likely to me, considering that even people I know who went to Roman Catholic schools freely admit to be given the same speech. (One RC in particular told how the school minister's stern speech to the graduating class warned them about all the hethens they'd be encountering now that they were moving out into the real world.) IMHO, most religions breed distrust of outsiders. It's kinda scary that way. Scientology just compounds the problem with their secretive practices and money-up-front salvation. Nonetheless, generally speaking, my philosophy is "live and let live" but when there is cause to suspect an organisation has formed some malevolent stereotype of outsiders and those outsiders happen to include me, I get uncomfortable. (Unrelated note: As I understand it, the irony of this whole Scientology issue in Germany is that the Scientologists claim they're being persecuted like the Jews were; but meanwhile, the German authorities claim they are trying to head Scientology off at the pass in order to avert another elitist secretive organisation taking hold like the Nazi party did. It's truly ironic that the two polar opposites in an argument see each other as being the same stereotype.)
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I have a copy of Battlefield Earth lurking on my shelves. I didn't buy it, I won it in a local newspaper competition many years ago (the questions were about Star Wars funnily enough).
I also won the record based on the book and it truly is the most amazing LP I've ever listened to. It was supposedly composed by Hubbard himself and I can well believe it. I can't really describe the tracks well enough to do them justice, they are all so bad they're good. Whether they meet the William Shatner level of badness is debatable, but they are stunningly awful. So bad they're brilliant!
As to Scientology itself, I personally don't care what they believe in. Everyone is free to believe in what they want to. BUT... Scientology has so many policies of repression, from a punishment wing inside the church called the RPF, to picketing critics homes, to untested medical and psychiatric practices that have led them to be accused of causing the death of one of their members.
There are other groups of Scientologists apart from the Church of Scientology who I don't attack. Why? Because they don't treat their own members in such an appaling way. The critics of Scientology are (in general) not protesting about the religious beliefs of Scientology. They're protesting at the violent and harmful actions of the church -
Uh dude. I grew up in an air force brat and at the time Top Gun came out I think I saw it with 3 air force fighter pilots and 2 navy pilots. To say that they laughed their asses off is not quite right. Of course there are some non-genuine parts. Like many of the pilots are too tall or their haircuts are too long. Or the problem with most modern dogfighting taking place at a range of several miles, etc. But as far as the attitude of the pilots, the attention to detail of the squadrons and bars and O-club, it was all pretty damn real. I personally met a navy advisor for the movie and I know they took pains to make it pretty believable. I think Cruise is pretty good in the movie myself and I gotta admit Top Gun is the only movie I still get chills watching, even on the hundredth time. Just thought I'd make a non-Scientology comment.
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Yeah they commented on the fact that it wasn't a real MIG, but I knew that and I was like twelve. They commented on the problems filming MIG sequences, seeing as how they were pretty hard to get a hold of at the time. As for Reagan propaganda, movies and books have been filled with propaganda from the beginning of time. You make movies for the time you're in. At the time we had just gotten of the whole Libyan thing I think. As for propaganda value I think it ranked pretty low since it never actually targets any certain country or value system. I had a friend once tell me that Grapes of Wrath is actually propaganda and you know what, he's right. Don't even talk about propaganda without mentioning Primary Colors. Please, it's disgraceful to film a rah rah movie about the life and times of a sitting president. Not to say that you or I have any preconceived notion of this president. We don't even know each other.
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Living in Germany I could tell you some stories concerning scientology you probably would call propaganda because we Germans are oh so unaccepting. Thanks for this well-researched comment. The German government actually does not accept any kind of totalitarian organisation BECAUSE we have made some not so funny experiences with such groups in the past. It always surprises me that people like Dustin Hofman who I normally would judge as intelligent let themselves be used by this organisation for their anti-Germany campaign. Although other european countries also take actions against Scientology its always Germany which is attacked because some dumb people over there are believing everything they are told.
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For all you groovy Hubbard dissers, check out the character of L. Bob Rife in Neal Stephenson's sci-fi masterwork "Snow Crash" and enjoy. :)
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Just to set things straight (I wouldn't want to be unfair to a dead fraudster), LRH did NOT start Scientology as a bett with Crowley - it is not certain that he ever met the man, although Crowley certainly knew Hubbard by reputation, as correspondence to Parsons shows he had a very low opinion of Hubbard. The historical order of things, IIRC, is that after LRH left Parson's OTO lodge (taking Parsons' wife with him), and after subsisting as a hack writer in many genres, not just SF, (during which period he said, on more than one occasion, that "the best way to make money is to start a religion" - possibly the source of the bet rumours) LRH wrote "Dianetics" - a collection of pop psychology, hypnosis and half thought out feelgood rubbish. Having managed to start a fad for cheap ersatz psychotherapy, LRH tried to cash in rather too quickly, setting up Dianetics centres all over the place. Things started to collapse after the first Dianetic "clear" - a state supposedly giving perfect memory - failed even such simple tests as remembering the colour of Hubbard's tie whilst on stage in front of thousands of people. Towards the end of the collapse of the first Dianetics movement, Hubbard was supported by a wealthy businessman (whose name escapes me), when LRH continued to lose money hand over fist, the businessman retained the rights to the Dianetics trademarks. This is when LRH founded Scientology, and it is documented that he made it a religion for the tax breaks. He later regained the rights to Dianetics, giving Scientology its somewhat split personality which continues to this day - "It's a self help system" "It's a religion" "It's a philosophy" "It's a dessert topping AND a floor wax"...
All this and more about the real life of Hubbard can be found in Russell Miller's excellent book, Bare Faced Messiah, available at your local library or, indeed, on the WWW.
Oh, and to return to a semblance of on topicality - I also read Battlefield Earth before I'd heard of Scientology, and I thought it was rubbish. My copy said "Soon to be TWO major motion pictures" on the cover... -
I got this in my email today...
.c The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) -- John Travolta's comeback is old news. Now he's so big in Hollywood he can really throw his weight around.
``I can get things done that a studio might not normally do,'' Travolta says in Sunday's Daily News. ``I told my manager, `If we can't do the things now that we want to do, what good is the power?' It's a waste, basically. Let's test it and try to get the things done that we believe in.''
One result of that effort is ``Battlefield Earth,'' a movie version of L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction novel. Shooting begins soon.
``It's the pinnacle of using my power for something,'' Travolta said. ``We've been trying to make it for 10 years, but we never got a script that was right. Hubbard had been writing sci-fi, fantasy and pulp since 1937, and it's high time it was done.''
Hubbard is the founder of Scientology, which Travolta has followed for nearly a quarter-century.
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This project scares the shit out of me. I'm not a fan of the Scientologists, however Battlefield Earth, the book is one of the best books, of ANY genre that I have read and I could not reccomend it any higher.
However this movie, like so many other recent projects, will probably not get done right. I have lost all confidence in Hollywood to make a movie the way it should be. This will be another example for the simple reason that, is you read the book, it is just too complicated to make amovie that willdo the book justice. -
I've noticed it often happens that a movie doesn't live up to the book. I just hope in this case it does because the book is awesome.
It's one of my all-time-favorite SF books along with the Foundation Trilogy (when are they going to do that?) and the "Speaker for the dead"/"Ender" books.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to it. -
I read this book, and what can I say? You have to love adventure and be a bit nutty (willing to look at the other side of life) but I think it presents some cool stuff.
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I read Battlefield Earth several years ago and I thought it one of the best page-turners to come along in quite awhile.
I hope the movie version can be as enjoyable as the book was.
There seem to be a few out there in *commentsland* who vehemently oppose or wish ill to this exellent story soley based on its association with Scientlogy founder L Ron Hubbard. And find all manner of reasons why their bigotted views are correct. I agree with the person who wrote that religion is constitutionally protected. Ya'all should take a deep breath or two and get yourselves under control. Ya got spittle on yer chins.
As far as the director not having any experience, well, don't we all start out that way? I tend to think he may do a better job than one of the *tested* directors playing it safe and towing the studio line.
George Lucas doing "damage control"? Sheesh, last time I looked, the film had surpassed the 300 million mark and looks to keep on going all summer.
I think "the informant" needs to let his underwear out a notch or two. His strident bitching hurts my ears to read it.
CuppaCoffee -
I have noticed that these boards tend to be rather down on almost anything it's possible to be down on but the comment about George Lucas and "damage control" is a hoot - Phantom Menace just topped $400 million domestically!
Battlefield Earth is a great book and I have my fingers crossed that the movie will be as good. I'm not expecting it to be the same - movies never are the same as the book - but I'm hoping for the best. -
Jan 03, 2000 4:27:44 AM CST
The Scientology Issue Is The Dumbest Thing I've Ever Heard
by prophet224
Ok, I want to set the record straight for all you people that don't know what you are talking about. L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction author long, long before he was the "father of Scientology". Granted, he did author the religion. But he has also written many works of sci-fi, mostly BEFORE Scientology was in existence. I have many friends who are into Scientology, even some family, and I also have friends and family who are not into it, and one thing I know for sure is that if the debate on this movie centers around that religion, all of you out there are far too narrow minded. This is a sci-fi book, for Christ's sake. Take it on those merits, not on what the author has done with his life regarding his religious beliefs. I have read this book multiple times, and I think it is a great story. Can't it just be a story? It's not like it's a movie like Dogma, that centered around religious beliefs. (By the way, I thought Dogma was a freakin' great movie) It's a STORY. Jesus, people, get over it.
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