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Moriarty Reviews INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL!
Hey, everyone. “Moriarty” here.
That’s a headline I genuinely thought I would never write.
In fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve said as much a few times over the years. “Oh, you’ll never see another INDIANA JONES film. They’ll talk about it and talk about it and talk about it and they’ll write drafts every few years, and they will never... ever... ever... make it.”
And now they have.
I think I’ve been fairly quiet about INDY 4 during production. I sat it out for the most part, reporting on a few things here and there and offering some impressions along the way. I have not spent the sort of energy on it that one might expect, though, based on the way I’ve covered big movies in the past. Part of that was because it genuinely seemed like Spielberg and Lucas wanted it that way. They were so hyperprotective that it wasn’t fun to try and run coverage. I didn’t want to get sued by my childhood heroes, and I didn’t want a series of angry C&D letters to be what I was thinking about when I walked into the theater. It just felt like there was so much anger every time I reported anything... and not just me, but everyone who writes for any of the film geek news sites. We all felt the heat on this one.
And it’s not for lack of material that we were quiet, either. INDIANA JONES 4 was one leaky boat. Leaky, leaky, leaky, and since it’s always pretty much been leaky, not only had I read the Jeb Stuart and the Frank Darabont and the Jeff Nathanson drafts, but everything we heard about the Koepp drafts during production just completed our picture of what the film is, generally speaking. If we’d wanted to, we could have published a complete plot synopsis last year. That’s what Lucas and Spielberg don’t get when they talk about the internet. We’re not looking to hate their films. And we’re not looking to ruin them. The idea that any real film fan would want to hate an INDIANA JONES or a STAR WARS film, sight unseen, befuddles me. These are the movies I literally grew up on, my childhood icons. I love INDIANA JONES. I love STAR WARS. Of course I want these movies to be great.
And some part of me still reveres the experiences of seeing those films as much as the films themselves. When E.T. came out, no one knew anything. There were no pictures of E.T. in magazines, no video footage of him on TV, no clips that revealed him. The only place you could see E.T. in the summer of 1982 was inside a movie theater, and the way that worked to drive audiences back to see it over and over again was magic. The same thing was true of Spielberg with JURASSIC PARK. I was working at Universal as a tour guide in the fall leading up to the release of JURASSIC, and then all the way through that summer when it actually hit. On the lot, we were all crazy about getting a look inside the soundstages where Stan Winston’s dinosaurs were hard at work. For a tour guide, access to a soundstage was never an issue. We got onto any stage any time we wanted, and never in any “authorized” capacity. I watched a lot of film roll during my time at Universal, but we were not able to get into the JURASSIC PARK stages. Not at all. When we were able to get in, the dinosaurs weren’t there. They were hustled on and off the stages when no one was around, and it was amazing how well they kept them under wraps. It’s one thing to keep photos of them out of magazines back in 1992, but to keep the dinosaurs completely secret from people who are actually working in the place where you are filming the movie... well, that’s impressive. There was a lot of buzz in LA during that build-up to JURASSIC PARK, most of it bad, and a lot of it boiled down to “I don’t know what the hell Steven Spielberg is doing right now, so it must be awful!” Then they showed the film to us, all the guides, about ten days before it was set to come out. We were one of the first audiences, and it was so we could talk to the tourists we had at the park every day and tell them to go see it. They screened it for us on the lot, at the Alfred Hitchcock theater, one of the best-sounding theaters I’ve ever been in. We were skeptical walking in, but when it got to that T-Rex attack, the temperature actually went up 10 degrees in that theater because of the visceral effect the film had on everyone. It was amazing, and it was even better because we hadn’t seen any of that stuff in the trailers. It was all new. All a surprise. And, man, it worked.
So as I left my house for Paramount this morning, I put all the negative buzz I’ve heard from people working on or around the film out of my head. I shut out all memories of the other drafts, good or bad.
All I wanted was to see a real Indiana Jones film. And to like it.
Not even love. Just like. At this point, with the ways I’ve been disappointed by hype and expectation, I would settle for like. I figured I’d go to the first of the four screenings happening at Paramount today, so I could digest it before I started hearing a tidal wave of reactions from other people. I didn’t want to get all film nerdy with it ten seconds after it ended, and I didn’t want to sit there in a row of people who all had chips on their shoulders about it. All I wanted was to sit in the dark theater and let it happen... whatever it was.
So. Now here I am four hours later, finally at the computer, on the other side of a half-dozen conversations with close friends, and I am finally able to sort it all out. And?
It’s an Indiana Jones film. And I like it.
I like it a lot more than my least favorite of the series, LAST CRUSADE, and I think a second viewing may help. The first time through, I just found myself bumped out of the movie a few times by a few of the most preposterous moments, and those missteps are so jarring because of how enjoyable the rest of the film is. I’m sure some fans are going to be all glass-half-empty because all they’ll see will be the false notes, the mistakes. Fuck that. I’m shocked they got it as right as they did, and I’m delighted by one thing above all others.
Harrison Ford showed up.
I’ve taken a lot of heat for “being mean” to Harrison Ford over the years, but you have to understand... he was the first movie star who ever mattered to me. He was Han Solo. He was Rick Deckard. And, hell yes, he was Indiana Jones. And for a brief time, it seemed like he could do anything he wanted. I love his work in WITNESS and, particularly, THE MOSQUITO COAST, and I thought for sure he was going to start going back and forth between great blockbusters and smart, challenging personal films. But then something happened, and it felt to me like he gave up. He quit. He started phoning it in. And it got easier and easier until he just... disappeared.
So more than anything else, I was concerned that the Harrison Ford who was starring in this movie was going to turn out to be that pale shadow, that half-recognizable zombie from THE DEVIL’S OWN or RANDOM HEARTS or SIX DAYS SEVEN NIGHTS. My entire review of that film, perhaps unkindly, was just “Wow, why didn’t someone tell me Harrison Ford died?” I’ve gotten more and more frustrated watching his movies over the years. FIREWALL? WHAT LIES BENEATH? HOLLYWOOD fucking HOMICIDE? Really? How could a movie star with such great natural instincts wind up so far off course?
My guess is that directors don’t know what to do with him, and they don’t know him well enough to inspire him to any sort of greatness. Peter Weir obviously understands what to do with him, and so does Steven Spielberg. As a result, the Harrison Ford who showed up for this movie is the same guy I grew up amazed by, and if there’s any one thing I’d say you need to see in this film, it’s his work. From the moment he turns around to face the camera for the first time, he’s Indiana Jones again, 100%. He perfectly summons the world-weary tough-guy persona again in a way that I’ve never seen him accomplish away from this series. He carries himself differently as Indy... walks different, talks different, just plain stands different. And it’s all here, just as it was, making Indiana Jones feel real, not like he’s just a hat and a whip.
I’m not going to go into detailed spoilers in this review, although I’m sure it’s inevitable that I’ll include a few. Much of what I enjoyed here was the discovery of myriad small Spielbergian details, the sorts of visual flourishes and witty touches that have always distinguished his work. By now, you can read about how they handle the Paramount logo at the start, or whether or not we see cast members like Connery or Denholm Elliott, and you can read details of what Easter eggs show up and in which scene. There’s been a rush by critics around the world to quickly post laundry lists of spoilers, but very few of those lists seem to have actually digested the film at all. I’m sure you’d rather see those moments in the movie, and what you want from me is more a sense of context. How does this fit into the series? Is it really a sequel to RAIDERS? Will there be more of these, and if so, who’s going to star in them?
Like I said, I think it’s a better movie than LAST CRUSADE, and I think it’s more successful as a whole than any of the STAR WARS prequels. It’s got some of the same problems that LAST CRUSADE has, though, and what makes it ultimately work is the way it rolls right over those problems, determined to entertain and succeeding more often than not. The opening of the film, a prolonged sequence of about 10 to 15 minutes, drops you right into the middle of the action, and very quickly, we find ourselves at Area 51, which turns out to be a very familiar warehouse where the government stores... things. And one of those things is the reason Irina Spalko (Cate Blanchett) has brought her envoy of Russian soldiers with her to the middle of the Utah desert. She’s determined to find whatever it is as a way of turning the Cold War hot and conquering the world. Spalko’s actually a riskier character than Mutt Williams (who we’ll get to in due time) because she’s the most outrageous character I think we’ve ever seen in an Indiana Jones film. For one thing, she’s psychic, a mind-reader, part of Stalin’s ongoing effort to create a psionic army. That’s drawn from historical record, of course... like the Nazis, the Russians tried more than a few crazy schemes in their efforts to tip the balance of world power, and in theory, the military applications of psychic powers sound like a pretty good thing. Spalko’s not played “real,” though. Instead, Lucas and Spielberg and the parade of screenwriters who have worked on this have pushed things into a more overtly pulp place than I think some audiences will expect. Modern audiences have no real knowledge of pulp and very little taste for it, and I’m curious to see if they manage to jump into this one without getting weighed down by the occasional knowing absurdity.
Spalko and her soldiers have something with them in the trunk of a car, something that’s going to help them find whatever they’re looking for, and when they finally pop the trunk and introduce Indiana Jones and his buddy Mac (Ray Winstone), Spielberg starts to turn things up quickly. That’s where you can really feel Spielberg at the helm. I’ve liked many of his recent films, and even the ones that don’t work completely are always interesting because of how effortlessly he speaks the language of cinema. But when he gets cooking, as he does several times in the first half of this film, there are very few action directors who can call themselves his peers.
There are several places in the film where Spielberg gets to crank it up, and those are the moments where the film stops being a reminder of past glories and just starts being a great piece of entertainment. I wish the second half was as strong as the first half, and I wish the film wasn’t drowning in awkward exposition in almost every scene, but those complaints don’t derail the fun for me. What I’ve always liked about the Indy films is the way the action sequences build, the way Spielberg piles on the danger and the obstacles, and the way he keeps creating ways out that are both funny and thrilling and crazy. A great Spielberg action sequence is like a Miles Davis jazz solo, both out of control and perfectly structured, and there’s enough of that here that I found myself laughing and applauding at the end of at least three sequences.
One of the things that shocked me was how mild-mannered this film is considering it’s got a PG-13 rating affixed. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK is like a snuff film compared to this, in terms of onscreen brutality. It’s a real sign of how inconsistent the MPAA is when this gets a PG-13 and PRINCE CASPIAN, which is far more grim and ugly about its violence, gets a PG. I’ve long since given up trying to understand the actions of the ratings board, though. Suffice it to say, there’s no Wrath of God here and no Mola Ram yanking out hearts. Even in the darkest moments of this film, things stay bloodless and feather-light. I’ve made peace with the fact that RAIDERS stands apart from the rest of the series, but this film fits neatly onto a shelf with DOOM and LAST CRUSADE. It feels of a piece with those, and anyone who calls themselves a fan of those movies should easily find a place in their affections for this one.
I have complaints, certainly. Perhaps the thing I’m most conflicted about is the introduction of Mutt Williams, aka Henry Jones III. Shia LaBeouf will no doubt become the whipping boy of this film among fanboys, and that’s a shame. He’s good in the movie, and everything he’s asked to do, he does well. He’s got an easy chemistry with Harrison Ford, he handles both the comedy and the action easily, and my favorite overall setpiece in the film, the motorcycle chase across the University campus, is a real showcase for LaBeouf. It’s the role itself that I have a problem with on a conceptual level, and there’s nothing any actor could have done to make it work any better than it does right now.
I question the need to introduce a child of any gender for Indiana Jones. I think it’s a fairly rotten idea. It’s desperate. It’s the sort of thing an aging sitcom does to try and squeeze one or two more seasons out. I can’t think of a single time in the history of a franchise where introducing a kid has worked to creatively revitalize the proceedings, and IJATKOTCS has not broken that streak. Could they make more movies after this using Mutt as the main character? Sure, I guess. Do I have any burning desire to see those films? Nope. I’d rather see Shia move on and use his obvious ability to establish some new series, something he can help define. Here, the very best he’ll ever be able to do is mount a decent imitation of Ford, and that’s just not a good enough reason to make more movies.
I wish that instead of shoehorning in another father/son “awwww, we really like each other” storyline that’s just a rehash of the Connery/Ford story, they had spent more time on the reunion of Marion (Karen Allen) and Indy. Marion remains one of the great female leads in action movies because she stood toe-to-toe with Indy in every scene and gave as good as she got. She was the perfect foil for him, and each of the female leads since has been a let down because, as Indy himself says in this film, “None of them were you, honey.” The smile that line earns from Allen is a nice reminder of just how potent their chemistry was, but since that’s basically all they wrote for her to do in the film, it feels like a bit of a squandered opportunity. I heard a few people after the screening complain that she can’t act anymore, but I don’t really think that’s fair. There are a number of great performers who you can’t really judge based on their work in this film. John Hurt, Jim Broadbent, and Ray Winstone are all fine, but they’re playing suggestions of characters instead of actual characters. Blanchett’s Spalko has the most to do, but even she is a distant second to Belloq and Toht in terms of how she’s written.
In fact... that’s the one major complaint I have. All of my other complaints come back to one big one: David Koepp’s screenplay. It’s a Frankenstein monster of a script, stitched together from the corpses of several other better drafts. It’s weird watching the film unfold having read all those drafts. It’s like “Oh, that’s Jeb Stuart’s. That’s Darabont’s. That’s Nathanson’s.” There’s no elegance to the patchwork that Koepp did. Then again, there rarely is with him. He’s functional, and he seems to be one of those guys you call in to make sense of complicated development nightmares, but there’s no soul to his writing. There’s no awe here. Remember how much character the Ark had in the first film? This inanimate golden box somehow managed to have a personality because of the way they wrote everyone else’s reactions to it. It was terrifying at times because Lawrence Kasdan’s script gave people room to breathe, while still managing to feel like it moved 100 miles-an-hour at all times. Koepp’s script stumbles through page after page after page of Indy explaining things, none of it particularly captivating, and I think people will quickly get tired of the backstory and just wish for a fast-forward to get back to the thrills. Considering how much I love even the quiet moments in the first film, that’s a letdown. It makes all the human stuff feel perfunctory. Most of the wit comes from the way Spielberg approaches even the hoariest joke visually, or from the pleasure that’s obvious in the interactions of the cast.
Janusz Kaminski does a fair job of imitating the distinctive look of Doug Slocombe’s phenomenal cinematography in the first three films, and there were very few moments where it felt like I wasn’t looking at a real Indiana Jones film. You know what ruined it most frequently? CGI. And I’m not that guy. I don’t spend pages and pages griping about CGI because, frankly, I think special effects and visual effects are more remarkable today than they’ve ever been. We are seeing the genuinely new so often now that the fantastic is almost commonplace. I remember hearing how there would be “almost no CGI” in this film, but that’s just not true. There is a fairly steady stream of computer generated images in the film, mixed in with some great practical effects and not nearly enough stunt work, and the result is a grab bag. I’m entertained, but I rarely felt that same sense of real danger that used to be so routine in films like this. I love the staging and choreography of most of the truck/duck chase in the jungle (the less said about that miserable TARZAN joke, the better), but there are several key shots in the sequence that are so blatantly fake that it undermines the sense of peril. The John Williams score serves to patch some of the roughest spots in the film, pure audio nostalgia served up just right, and it’s amazing how the RAIDERS march still gets my pulse up.
The last act of the film is the weakest stuff in the movie, and I think it loses its mind a bit once they actually reach the temple of the Crystal Skulls. It goes through the motions, and it does what you figure an Indy film should do at the end, but it all just sort of happens around Indy, and he makes very little difference to what occurs. Again... I’m not saying it ruins the film... it’s just the difference between a good summer movie I enjoyed and a classic that we’ll be revisiting twenty years from now. This film will be remembered primarily for not fucking up the legacy of Dr. Jones, and considering the still-smoking ruins of the STAR WARS franchise, we should count ourselves lucky. There are a few things that came close to pissing me off, like the “joke” involving a statue of Marcus Brody, which seems to just compound the hatchet job they did on his character in LAST CRUSADE. Still, there are definitely things I’ll carry away from this, pleased to have added these scenes to the jukebox in my head. The AMERICAN GRAFITTI/hot rod opening. Mutt and Indy on the motorcycle. “It drops three times.” Karen Allen’s smile, timed to deadly effect at least twice in the film. Doomtown, which works better than I expected. The shot of Mutt at the end with Indy’s hat in his hands.
More than anything, I’m just glad that this latest (I’ll never say last again) adventure for Indiana Jones contains some real pleasure. Considering the alternative and having to write that review, it is a relief to feel like I want to go back to the theaters with my friends and my son this weekend so we can see the film together, all the pressures of a review off my shoulders at that point. Watching a film like this with my critic’s hat on is never as much fun as just handing myself over and watching with the eyes of a fan. Thanks for making that second viewing something I’m looking forward to, Steven and Harrison and, yes, even George. I had little faith. Thankfully, you guys had enough for all of us.
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
Readers Talkback
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May 19, 2008, 12:09 a.m. CST
Moriarty and the Last Skull Raider of Doom!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
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Could it be true? Fortune and glory?
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My most trusted person at AICN!<p>I haven't read the review though. :P
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And thanks to Moriarty for the review. All the press and reviews popping up over the net pretty much confirms what the sensible suspected. Its a good film. Nowhere near the brilliance of raiders, but lets be honest who seriously expected it to be? But clearly this is a movie that belongs in the Indy franchise. Thank you Ford, Spielberg and yeah even Lucas for letting is enjoy a new Indy adventure. I'll be looking forward to seeing this opening day.
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Can't wait. Naysayers begone.
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Because I am taking a HOT DATE!
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I read the review!
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But what if I really, really like Crusade?
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What I'm gathering from a lot of these reviews is that, whatever else, This film "Meets the minimum requirements." That's the feeling I keep getting over and over. I keep seeing stuff like, "Yeah, this sucked, and this wasn't so good, but it still feels like an indy movie and is as good as whatever you consider your least favorite sequel to be." Is this accurate? Should I be excited that it just manages a passing grade? This tepidly good stuff is messing with my head!<br> <br> good to hear Harrison Ford showed up though. I too was afraid they were just going to use his wax museum replica but if this truly has the real indiana jones in it, it cant be that bad, I suppose...
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That most people will now allow a forgiving attitude with this, but shunned doing so for Speed Racer. In some ways this is the same situation, you overlook certain flaws to have a great experience. But so many people seemed to just make up their mind in advance. I guess if it had a lucas franchise from the 80's then people would've slobbered all over it..
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or a marvel comic book.
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thanks Mori.
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I guess it sounds like a cross between Jurassic Park 2 level of awful and Jurassic Park level of awe and entertainment? That's a weird mix, but if it's a good adventure ***STORY***, if the story itself is fun to follow, I will like the movie. That's what always snares me for this type of movie. Is the story engaging? "Too much exposition" is something I kind of like in adventure movies, to be honest. That can be part of a movie's charm for me. But then again I like the wachowskis' filmmaking so I guess I have a lobotomy.
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...I won't be able to trust many other reviews for a long while. Including this one, which has the same desperate tinge of wanting as the Speed reviews did. Speed was a pile of dogshit that got deservedly pounded - and hard - at the box office and while I doubt Indy 4 will share that same fate the fact that even it's biggest fans, like you, have to write multiple paragraphs justifying how, no, you REALLY DO like it, in spite of itself.....the flick is a letdown, just like all the advanced word has been hinting.
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Like the majority of the positive reviews it's like "yeah, thank goodness it wasn't bad!! I can rest easy now and just enjoy a film that's not really great but good enough" Sounds like a pretty crappy endorsement to me.
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May 19, 2008, 12:31 a.m. CST
Spielberg and Ford shouldn't worry about the mixed reviews.
by MaxTheSilent
Because if this movie DOES disappoint everyone will just blame Lucas and LaBeouf. Although by all accounts 'The Beef' is the best thing in the film.
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Damn you to hell!
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Yep. And what's even more ironic is how (I'm guessing) back in the old days when those comics were coming out, a lot of the people who enjoyed them had really active imaginations. And then you fast-forward to today, and it seems like the 'idea' of a comic is so important rather than its fun and creativity. So now, these same aged people react vehemently against something new like Speed Racer. Sad, really.
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... yes, because nothing in life can be a mixed reaction. In the Kingdom Of The Cynical Fanboys, all is either "suck" or "rule." <P>I said what I meant. It's a lot of fun. There are some issues, but so what? The things that are great about it outweigh those issues, and so ultimately, yes, it's a positive review. <P>Shades of grey, people. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
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I didn't know I could have been first on this thing. I read that entire review and looked at the talkback, and woops, it was empty, but too late. Oh well, it's overrated anyway I guess. I am so damn excited to see this now. Great review. I don't need another Raiders, (although that WOULD be the bees knees Spielberg! You can just fucking take a nap Lucas, you clown.) as long as it's still Indy and some of that magic is still there, which it sounds like it is.
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"I wish the second half was as strong as the first half, and I wish the film wasn’t drowning in awkward exposition in almost every scene..." "One of the things that shocked me was how mild-mannered this film is..." "I can’t think of a single time in the history of a franchise where introducing a kid has worked to creatively revitalize the proceedings, and IJATKOTCS has not broken that streak." "[...]there’s no soul to [Koepp's] writing. There’s no awe here." "The last act of the film is the weakest stuff in the movie..." This review proves why you're still the best reason to come to this site. This was a big assignment, and without hyperbole or bitterness or amusement at your own cleverness, you have carefully described the film to such a degree that I can feel good about not going to see it. I couldn't have asked to be let down any more gently. Again, thank you.
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If Spielberg was saying he wanted to go for an older style, does that mean I won't have to worry about nausea from shaky cam?
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Im hoping I can get to read Darabont's script someday.
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no drugs, no cynicism, just an immersion into a cartoon world with tons of excitement and laughs. a pure, joyous cinematic experiment. Arguably better than Iron Man. IMO opinion easily superior.
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I mean leave the cannabis at home fellas. It ain't necessary.
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Sadly,it sounds about what I expect. Not great,not bad...just a movie. I just this evening read the Jeb Stuart script and was amazed at how much better it sounded than the movie that actually got made...keep in mind,that was the script that Ford and Speilberg hated. The hardest thing for me to accept is going to be the introduction of the new kid character...Mori hit that nail right on the fucking head. It reeks of desperation and is a bad combination of a terrible actor and a terrible character. If I can get past that,I might actually enjoy the ride....
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I didn't say there was, nor that "mixed" means bad. Just that it is hard to be excited when even most of the positive reviews are saying it's good enough. Kind of makes me think if this had been the new Mummy film, would people have given this as much praise?
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I'd say both movies have their merits. Iron Man is a fun conventional movie. But Speed Racer's energy and innovation, in my opinion, makes it better on the whole. I mean, look at the distinction between reviews when you compare the two movies. I guess what mainstream audiences and critics value and want is that conventionality in a movie. Which is fine, but disappointing, too, since it means anything different that isn't under the label 'indie' gets shunned.
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Last Crusade fucking rules. Temple of Doom is STILL the worst Indy movie ever made(although that may change come Wed.)
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Just curious, always wondered about that script, having read the stories around it and Darabont's own angry words on it in interviews, I'd love to hear some insight into the actual script.
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May 19, 2008, 12:46 a.m. CST
Mutt has the hat in his hand at the end of the movie...
by poeticwarriorII
and some of you cunts will still say George isn't crazier than a shit house rat with that idiotic Mutt movie he was dropping on us a few days ago. Say what you want but TheQueef was a deal breaking dumb ass idea.
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This sounds like all of the complaints I had in my Review! I'm just glad you liked it/forgave it...
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Good review. Honest and forthright. (I appreciate the lack of spoilers.) I guess of all the things I'm hearing, the lack of Marion's true presence is the one that disappoints me the most. I just don't see how Lucas & Spielberg could allow that aspect to fall by the writing wayside. But I'm still really looking forward to seeing it.<P>After all the INDIANA JONES nostalgia that's been playing on TV these past weeks, I've come to realize just how much I really love the character of Indy. I think he may be Lucas's best and most realized creation.
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It's just kind of a hard come down. Harry got me excited about how cool the movie is, and you and quint have me convinced to only expect a "good enough" Indy moive. Something like Crusade, but without the nostalgia. (not that that will always be a problem. I'm sure in 10 years I'll look back fondly on Kingdom.) I know the value of tempered expectations, but after Harry's review your's is kind of a defeat. Don't get me wrong. I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR THAT. Because that would be incredibly petty on my part and totally untrue. I just, want to believe, and it's hard knowing it's not all that it's cracked up to be. I don't know.
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I think some audiences are just having trouble swallowing the break from reality some films have taken. The most popular aesthetic now seems to be sticking to total reality without delving to much into the pulp or the surreal. And Speed Racer seemed to capture that cartoony, nonsensical atmosphere in a way that was still extremely entertaining. Still, I definitely was not dissing on Iron Man at all. Definitely an excellent comic book movie with perfect casting. It was pretty conventional, especially compared to something like Speed Racer, but that certainly didn't stop me from having a great time watching it.
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we have to accept that mainstream is mainstream, and that this movie (I guess) is pretty much labeled 'cult' now. Honestly I think the Criterion company should just be the first to print it when it goes to DVD.
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I'm thinking I shouldn't have ponied up for that new DVD set that just came out! Damn!
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...are harsh. And even though I've not yet seen it, I'd say they were intentionally so.
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and quite frankly, if it is better than Last Crusade, then I am going to love it. Of course LC was the only one I saw in the theater...
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Effects were cool, but you must be it was indeed void of a soul. Was also miscast from top to bottom. I'm very sorry to hear you say this Moriarity, because you are my favorite reviewer. Hopefully this will be a good viewing experience.
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I think there's a generation of people born in the early to mid 80s that have a nostalgia just particularly for Crusade, where as those older who appreciated Raiders back in the day are the ones more prone to dismissing it.
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fell into that sewer they always so delicately teetered over, ala the image of their site.
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Are we finished with this desparate nostalgia for the 80s yet. Jeeeeez!
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It's goofy, yes, but that tank fight is one of the best action sequences in the series. Temple of Doom is great, but Last Crusade always excited me the most as a kid. And the scene where everybody thinks Indy dies and he climbs back up behind them is hilarious. I re-watched Raiders a couple months ago and it is ridiculous how magical that film is. A clear ten out of ten.
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I agree with Moriarty that the sucks/roles thing gets old. I will never convince my aunt that Last Crusade sucks and she will never convince me that Temple of Doom sucks but we both enjoy Indiana Jones the character. And so we will be there opening day. So why do we argue? For fun I guess but I think Lucas is right that movies ARE generally binary. They either work for us or don't. Last Crusade didn't work for me. There was no real resolution with the Father/Son relationship and it slowed the film down that Connery turned it into a vanity project so to speak. So I'm going in just meeting the film halfway and hoping it works for me. Sometimes we don't let movies just plain work for us and I hope it's easier for Moriarty to do on his second viewing with the burden of a review off his shoulders.
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are fine Moriarty, but if you're going to make a sequel to Indiana Jones nearly 20 years later and a sequel that has no reason to be made at that -- it better be great. Not good, not okay, not, "I didn't hate it."
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Any chance of a pocket review of that, say, after Skull gets a release? I'm really curious to know what it's like.
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!
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This is kinda funny....Indiana Jones and the Fortress of Rap. http://tinyurl.com/6fjykb Actually kinda catchy.
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Expect Jurassic Park 4 to be green lit for summer 2012 featuring Sam Neil, Laura Dern and Jeff Goldblum making one last go at Dinosaur Island. Do you think they'll be too old for that shit? Or how about Ace Ventura 3 for 2014 featuring Jim Carey and courtney cox-arquette re-uniting to discover the identity of killer of snow flake the dolphin's son. But will there still be the same magic when Jim talks out his ass this time?
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May 19, 2008, 1:08 a.m. CST
This is an actual review; journalism in true form.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
So few writers know how to write a review anymore. It's great and refreshing to read a well written review of a film I plan to see. Reviews aren't about making a film a sucess or a failure financially or artistically, they are for a curious audience. This is how you write for a curious audience. Well done Moriarty, well done. So many of the other reviews I've read tonight were written by Donnies out of their element.
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I was busting for this review.
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Seriously, you people. These movies are meant to recreate serials from the 30s. Go back and rent some from netflix and get some culture. These Indy movies are fantastic at capturing that feel and updating it with modern trappings like a great film score and killer dialogue. So Raiders does not suck, Doom does not suck, Last Crusade does not suck, and apparently neither does Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls. It's all just varying degrees of awesome.
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Criterion releasing Speed would be incredible. But I doubt it. And I'm not sure it's accurate to just generalize the "mainstream." I'm pretty sure most kids on the planet would get a kick out of it, just like they will for Indy.
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I've actually avoided all the trailers for this and haven't read very much about it. And I'll be going in with low expectations, thanks to Last Crusade. Oh yeah, if anybody is interested, Target has all the flicks on sale for $10...
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How cool is it that you get to take your kid to an Indy movie at the cinema? Flaws or no, I'm sure that'll be a high for you.
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The fucking internets are letting me down, man! Can't find it anywhere. Just Monkey Kings and Saucer Men. But you knew that. If someone were to possibly leak it, Drew... that someone would make a lot of film geeks happy. Hint. Hint. Oh well. You lucky, insider bastards. Enjoyed the review, BTW. Also enjoying the fanboys inability to grapple with a little ambiguity.
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just so we understand the proper scheme of things
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You're like a first time skydiver. It's like 12 months ago they told you you're going skydiving next year. You've dreaded it all year long. Now that you did it. You're glad it's over and hey, it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be.
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http://tinyurl.com/3qx74w
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May 19, 2008, 2:10 a.m. CST
First real piece of writing in a Indy IV review tonight...
by Short Round
"So many of the other reviews I've read tonight were written by Donnies out of their element." I couldn't agree more with that. Thanks Mori for a real piece of journalism, not just a thinly veiled preconceived hate of anything even remotely associated with Lucas. Like most, my expectations are relatively low after the train wreck of Episodes 1 and 2. A positive review with some mild constructive criticism is a good sign for KOTCS I think. No time for love Dr. Jones!
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And you know what, I might be saying that because when Last Crusade came out I was just too damn young to dislike it, but, unlike the Prequels, this film didn't have to get made. And if it did get made it better be god damn excellent. Not Raiders excellent necessarily, but clearly second best excellent. Otherwise it's a more nostalgic Oceans 12. That might be a tad hyperbolic but you catch my drift. No this film should have stayed right where you thought it would stay, in all our imaginations.
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acknowledge how awful the Prequels are. Welcome to the light side.
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Even a duff Indy film is going to be better than whatever fucking McG turns out next. And, as it hasn't got that annoying little bastard from 'Temple Of Doom' in it, it's not going to be the worst Indy film ever made, is it? Count me in!
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...that little bastard from TOD? ;)
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But you escaped from The Goonies and into an Indiana Jones film and ruined it for me!<p>Too shouty, dude!
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Wants to know some details about the Darabont script. I'd sure love to know some of the main similarities and differences AFTER I've seen the film.
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Sorry, but what's a 'Donnie'?
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Quan was in Temple of Doom before The Goonies, don't blame that one on him.
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ShogunMaster is probably going to get on a school bus here in a few hours to start his week of classes at the local middle school in his hometown. He is still hoping his mother can pick up some tickets for the new Indy film this Thursday. AICN had all positive reviews from its staff members. I was not expecting that. Roger Ebert gets it. He just does. CHUD is what happens when snot meets a keyboard.
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First off, I think Harry, Moriarty, and Quint are being honest and are typing on this website what their hearts are telling them. It's all about expectations. Harry, like he said, went into the movie, prepared to be hugely letdown. His expectations, extremely low to the point of suck. He came out of the theatre loving it so much, which is a good thing, but if his expectations were that of Moriarty and Quint, he would be saying the exact same things as those two are saying. Moriarty and Quints expectations weren't exactly high per say, but they were in the range of "okay, I expect a halfway decent film, for it to film like an Indiana Jones film and not a trying to feel like a film from the franchise but failing miserably "Die Hard 4", to be entertained, and to at least be better than the shitty Star Ware prequels." They didn't go in expected Raiders scale. Let's face it, no Indiana Jones film from here on out will ever exceed Raiders. It is impossible. And that is what I am going to realize going into this film. I actually don't like Temple of Doom all that much and I feel it is most out of place of the three Indy films. Basically, Temple of Doom is three great action sequences with Indy, and a bare bones "Indian-child-stealing-yawn-yawn" plot. The mine cart chase is the only thing truly great from that film. Indy didn't really do any archeologing in that film, he was the only likable character, and the whole film was more of a "Frankenstein monster" film than anything, being that most of the sequences were things left on the screenplay cutting room floor of Raiders. Temple of Doom is kinda boring. My expectations for this 4th adventure is something that is at least better than Doom. Last Crusade probably has the most rewatch value of the Indy trilogy (although Raiders does too), just as Die Hard 3 has the most rewatch value of that trilogy. Die Hard 2 is the equivalent to Temple of Doom, rehashed plot and ideas. So, for all of you seeing this movie, expect a film at least better than Doom, or for those of you that didn't really like Crusade and liked Doom, better than Crusade, but don't expect the best of all the films, you'll walk out disappointed. I also have a feeling since none of the reviewers on this website want to get into detail about the so-called "alien" aspect of this film that they want to say they had a problem with it, they just can't because they are afraid of releasing too many spoilers. Once all is said and done and everybody has seen this film, expect a lot of cracks at the alien aspect of this film. But remember, all the Indy films have had some supernatural element, and aliens are one of the most supernatural elements we have in today's culture. So for those of you bashign Moriarty, leave him alone, he had his expectations, and what the movie gave him was probably close, but not just quite what he was expecting.
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dude, i'm there.<p> CRUSADE is my least favourite of the series so far. and i thought SITH was better than JEDI.<p> of course, having read a bunch of reviews, i'm getting the clear signal to lower my expectations. but this kind of review helps a lot. Thanks, dude.<p>
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I love pulp.
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May 19, 2008, 2:48 a.m. CST
Roger "Crash and Juno were the best films of the year" Ebert
by IndustryKiller!
Yeah there's a guy with his finger on the pulse of cinema.
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i love that. epicly put
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Donnie = Big Lebowski-ism.
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Middling and passively nostalgic. Mmmmm boy THAT'S the Indy film I wanna see!!!!
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...and a whirlwind of nostalgia. This is an important weekend for fandom and I'm loving every minute of it. <p>Honestly, I never thought I'd see another Indiana Jones movie in the theater. As Elsa said in LAST CRUSADE, "I never thought I'd see you again." To which Indy replied, "I'm like a bad penny, I always turn up."</p> <p>Indeed.</p>
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I start to think that he NEVER wrote an Indy script and this is just some kind of cruel in-joke. Of course I hope that it exists and find its way online (or even into book stores) anyway.
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...and especially Lucas haters. All that residual bad-taste-in-mouth from Episodes I & II is really showing itself over on CHUD, and the trolls and cynics here as well. I retain a sense of amusement in all of this, and fully realize that regardless of any slight shortcomings, I will enjoy KOTCS much like I enjoy the first three.
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Fuck all that evidence they site. Cynics and trolls all of 'em! *rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble*
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lotta bad taste from that one too.
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idiots that talk about enjoying the KOTCS just because it has IJ in it despite the fact it has jumped the shark and wreaks of desperation. Tell you what, I'll sell you a box of shit with IJ written on the side of it, will you enjoy that as well? Or perhaps you would enjoy TheQueef's Muff character on it? We could even photoshop him giving a hand job to Spielberg while we're at it. We'll give it a nice money shot right on the front for you!
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That was the laugh of my weekend, and not a moment too soon, as I'm about to go to bed. Those fucks hated this movie before they ever saw a frame. Some people just dont like having fun, and that shows over there ALL the time. I'll take some real writing (ie Mori) over Lucas damnation anyday, thanks...
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You are fucking right on with that shit. I remember the felatious apologistic bullshit with the Phantom Menace when it first came out. Jesus, what a letdown that was. A lot of people were running around trying to convince themselves it wasn't a steaming pile of dog shit just like they're doing now. That Mutt Williams character spelled doom the moment that fucker was announced and now we have to listen to 10000 word essays on why despite the fact it sucked they still liked it.
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I know I should ignore it, but its hard. I'll finally learn my lesson and this summer I think, and it will be the last time I get talked out of having a good time.
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Heres the way that "website" works. Hey remember that thing you liked as a kid? You only like it because of nostalgia,it really sucks. And if you dont take our word for it,you're uncool and immature. And you know that stuff that bombs or everyone hates? You're just not mature or cool enough to understand it like we do. CHUD is what happens when hipsters band together and suck each others cocks for too long. But hey,did you hear Devins going to be on TV? Not that he cares cause he's too cool for that,but please watch him or he might cry.
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...need someone to focus their rage upon over the fact that life has past them by and thier lives peaked in 1980/1981 with Empire and Raiders...Don't be mad because we all ended up kissing girls and starting careers. Jealousy knows no bounds when it comes to Shia around here.
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to walk around with your head in your ass and talk about how great this shitty desperate grasp at a dwindling career is, and since it's so fun it has to be good, you see, because it was fun.
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... how can you have "evidence" in a review? And as I said above... this is not a "rave" or a "positive review." It's a mixed review. Pardon me for not sharpening my knives and indulging in lazy, easy Lucas-bashing for the sake of it. I wrote about my complete and genuine reaction to the film. If that's not enough for you, or if you demand that everyone has to echo your POV, I guess this one will just have to bother you.
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need someone to focus their pent up sexual rage upon over the fact that no one will touch their peepee and their lives peaked at the age of 12 when their mothers still washed and wiped their ass. Don't be mad because you ended up whacking it to a transformers poster and the fact you're driving a taxi. Envy knows no bounds when it comes to Spielberg humping TheQueef.
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...not to mention wreaking of lack of originality. Desperate grasp at a dwindling career? Say what you will, but I don't find Harrison Ford to be somone who needs/wants much more than he already has, not to mention he has never given a shit about Hollywood stardom. I think his lack of decent roles as of late has been a consious choice on his part.
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The reviews from Devin and Jeremy, while (arguably) supported, are TOTALLY biased. They decided to hate this film a long time ago and should be ashamed. Seriously, CHUD are the lowest of the low.
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...you are the type-A Troll that I mentioned earlier in this TB. You're welcome to an opinion, but your approach is juvenile at best. I'm sorry George let you down so much in 1999...
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...is to movies what Pitchfork is to music: elitist bullshit. If you put stock in their opinion you're as worthless as they are.
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All the Indy films have iconic closing scenes - the warehouse, the children, riding off into the sunset - and I was looking forward to discovering this film's last scene myself. Never mind - it was a great review.
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Merriman, Diggity- I see PW2 has shown, but where are the rest of them>? <P>Still cautiously optimistic, I don't trust Harry, this one is mixed and Quint's was a bit weird.
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It's juvenile to you because you're too much of a retarded twat to think of anything else. By the way... did you know you're a cunt?
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elitist bullshit, my self-esteem dropped into the shitter when I read that review because I dangle from the nuts of Lucas the Hutt and my sole reason for living is KOTCS not sucking big floppy donkey balls, then yeah, it's elitist bullshit!
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Carry on trolling; I'll be here if you ever have any real discussion to offer.
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and Indy were arguing during their card game in the jungle and all of a sudden they both start arguing in mandarin (or is it cantonese?)? Yeah, that was fucking hilarious. I'm curious. what is everybody's favorite Indy moment. It could be anything in the movies at all, an action scene, a clever line, or an especially gruesome death. My personal favorite is definitely the truck fight in Raiders. Pure action bliss. And the opening of Last Crusade was always interesting to me as a kid. I was a boy scout too and seeing River Phoenix do all that crazy shit is what really pulled me in and made me feel like I could be an action hero. Come on, let's celebrate the legacy of Indy! Others?
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was just about what I thought this shitastic movie would be like. From everything that's been said and justified in reviews and shown in the trailers that fucker was spot on. This is the most Lucas fondled of the lot and that incompetent fuck has molested enough already. These two fat ass old men have gotten lazy and rich because people give their mediocrity a fucking pass so they sleep walk their way through everything they do anymore.
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Where's the spoiler warning Mori? Your review doesn't have the red spoiler tags, but it gave away a lot more than Quint or Harry's. Mainly the Opening Scene, What's in the trunk, shia and the hat.
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I rest my case. Now sit in the corner with your thumb in your ass you imbecilic dip shit.
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I am having too much fun with these hyperbolic subject titles.
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...has to be Marion and the drinking duel. Followed closely by NO TIME FOR LOVE DR. JONES! ;)
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...never ceases to amuse and baffle me at the same time. All I can ever think of is Jay and Bob at Mooby's.
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like a whore being ass raped about grammar in a talkback are like the dripping diseased twats at the free clinics you frequent trying to rid yourself of the ass clap you caught while your sneaky uncle visited for Easter. By the way... did you know you're an uber cunt?
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I like Indiana Jones.
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you're just as guilty of insulting people over the internet yourself you shit eating testicle wart. I guess since your a sniveling cunt though you excused yourself from your post above, right you incredibly shit sniffing bastard? Fuck you very much for playing how goddamn stupid can I be, you won first prize dumb ass! A free trip to sniff the three day old jizz your bf left in your ass fucktard.
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maybe less crazy name-calling, more movie talk. favorite Indy moment dude?
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Fuck off.
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...I feel like I'm on the bus to middle school again. Only its a lot more one-sided than those days. ;)
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we all have our bad days. I know I have, shit. The stuff you're writing is hilarious anyway. I don't think anybody is taking you seriously anymore.
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Damn You Michael Bay
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don't you have a favorite Indy moment?
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My favorite scene was when Indy punched this dude Short Round in his vagina. Does that count?
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May 19, 2008, 4:17 a.m. CST
If it is at least as good as Crusade, it's good enough for me
by hamster factor
Nice review. Being one that really enjoys Crusade, while still ranking it third behind Raiders and Doom - I'll be totally satisfied if Crystal Skull is in that same ballpark.
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cunt!
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Indy! I love you!
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I totally understand moviefolks like Lucas and Spielberg trying to be protective. Lots of people seems to just want to tear apart and reveal all the secrets and trample in the mud.
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graphic
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I'm pretty sure the only ones taking me seriously are the dudes that just can't stop writing to me. But then again, those usually turn out to be the most entertaining anyway so really we're in a win win situation.
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No parachutes!
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Carefully reading what Mori and Quint says, and scanning briefly through Harrys review is usually the best way to approach a new film here on AICN. Happy to see that each of them have addressed the things you can usually expect them to. And I'm my opinion, its 3 thumbs up out of 3. <p> Not sure I'm liking 'The shot of Mutt at the end with Indy’s hat in his hands' bit though.... <p> Fucking excited about seeing this....
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Rope Bridge in Temple of Doom. Prepare to meet Kali, in Hell!
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Indy's hand kept getting stuck so they finally went CGI! It was kinda funny seeing Short Round in giant green panties with a huge cork stuck in his twat, but in the end, the hard R was, unfortunately for all, off putting.
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May 19, 2008, 4:26 a.m. CST
Usually I like to chime in here and complain about Last Crusade.
by hopewell1
But I'll mix it up. Best part of Last Crusade: "You lost today kid, but that doesn't mean you have to like it." Totally defines the character's life motivation. Worst part of Raiders: There isn't any. I just don't like Indy's high pitched "dates! You eat it!"
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I always kinda like the dates line for some odd reason. It always seemed like something a guy would do when talking to some chick he liked just to get a laugh. After all her monkey just ran away, have a heart.
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When the worst parts of this movie most likely come from Ford and Speilberg. They both passed on scripts that were much better than the one that got produced,and the only reason Shia Ladouche is in this is because he is to Speilberg what Leonardo Dicraprio is to Scorsese. Lucas may have given us the prequels,but Ford and Speilberg have also given us a lot of crap in the last few years.
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I wasn't calling you a c*** earlier for the tone it down bit. I just realized it looked like you thought I was addressing you with that. Just FYI.
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Agree with Moriarty on that one. The Wachowski's needs to get to do some real superheroees, the way they truly master the kinetics and the comic book/ animated feeling translated into live action. Those bedroom fight scenes were some of the best fight scenes ever. Give them Avengers, or JLA, anything. If they can make Keanu exiting imagine what they can do with Green Lantern or Captain America.
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May 19, 2008, 4:44 a.m. CST
What exactly is so bad about Last Crusade's characterzation of M
by Stroker T Montana
People act like his character was somehow butchered. He was in all of two scenes in Raiders, and he didn't even appear in Doom. There wasn't really a character there until Last Crusade.
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a DC property but not the Avengers. DC doesn't really give a shit if their movies suck.
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Yeah yeah, it's not a sequel to Raiders like Crusade or (apparently) Crystal Skull is, but the reason I love Doom is that it shows "the other miscellaneous adventures of Dr. Jones". I love that the whole story just happens by accident. Indy just happens to get caught on this doomed airplane with this annoying woman and they just happen to crash land in India and fall into this adventure. For me Temple of Doom has always sparked my imagination about all the untold stories of this character. Willie Scott, while irritating, doesn't manage to ruin it for me - there are too many perfect moments, and perhaps the best musical score of the series.
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not directed at you at all.
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I wasn't upset or anything. honestly, the things you have been writing really are hilarious.
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I can never understand peoples complaints that Marcus was butchered in Crusade - we no nothing about him from Raiders - we seem him only in the comfortable confines of his University. In Crusade Marcus, unlike Indy is shown to be a white tower scholar type, unaccustomed to the grit of field work, let alone epic adventures against the Nazis. I thought it was a great contrast. I still found his character likable, and funny.
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Can we talk for a second about how fucking awesome Sallah was? "I am the monarch of the sea! I am the ruler of the Queen's navy!" Stupid bastard monkey
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was the MAN in the tank fight in Last Crusade.
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most people would still be writing me about middle school and such. Impressive... most impressive.
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Seems as if that manic episode subsided.
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in Raiders. You've got to admit that much at least. He surely wasn't a buffoon. That said, I really didn't find him unlikable or annoying in LC. I can understand their point of view but he was still a good character.
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in one of the shots in Raiders, probably a deleted one. wiki that shit. does this footage still exist? that sounds fucking hilarious.
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Too bad most fanboys don't use your shades of grey outlook or go into theatres with open minds. <p> Then again, perhaps it's hard to when people obsess over certain productions for so long - the eventual product simply cannot klive up to the pre-concieved expectations.
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May 19, 2008, 5:03 a.m. CST
"Shia Ladouche is to Speilberg what Leonardo Dicraprio is to Sco
by hamster factor
That's interesting, considering this is the first Spielberg flick he's been in. Seriously, I've got no problem with LeBeef. Is he the next Harrison Ford? HELL NO. But if he does his own thing, whatever that may be, it could be fine
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He has about four lines in Raiders, you can't really tell a guy's personality from that many lines. Besides, Marcus was confused and naive because he had never been in that kind of situation.
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I sometimes read other reviews, but whenever I want a solid discussion of a film I haven't seen, I wait for you to post your thoughts. Half the time I go back to your review after seeing a film, and when I do that I always find myself nodding along. And while it's good that you and I seem to have similar reactions to film (it means that I can trust your opinion to help me judge whether movies I'm debating whether to see are worth my time and money) it's even better that I can trust your solid perception skills and ability to articulate fine shades of meaning and value. Looks like this one is going to be worth the money.
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you see this Short Round douche is the type of epic tool that you can really enjoy calling a cunty becuase the title has been won through many long sessions of being a whining twat. He's like the stupid gf you can't get rid of no matter how many times you beat her. Way down deep inside he knows he's a pig and he deserves to look like a fool. So you get what we have right here! An uber cunt.
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has adopted several actors over his career. Robert DeNiro and Joe Pesci are in several of his films too. Too bad he doesn't get Daniel Day Lewis in more of his films. I really don't mind Dicaprio at all any more. He bothered me in Titanic and that fucking sitcom he was in but I have to say, the dude has really come into his own. Just watch Blood Diamond. Who knows, maybe Shia can become a great actor as well. I will admit, it bothers me that Lucas and Spielberg are putting him in an Indy movie, but both of them are just as legendary as Scorsese, and I am interested in seeing where Shia decides to take his career. Hopefully, he is smart enough to turn down the Indy 5 thing to pursue his own career. I really do think he's got the chops.
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disagree with you but hey, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.
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I don't like lame, empty threats from anonymous intrawebbers. Too lame.
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or are you genuinely illiterate? Quit being such an annoying little cunt, you cunt.
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concerning Short Round's history on the site, nor am I interested. Did everybody see my earlier post? There is a shot ON FILM where Sallah...SHITS HIMSELF. He poops his pants. He doodoos in his trousers. Sallah drops one in his slacks. and it's on film. preserved forever for some lucky geek to someday uncover and reveal to the world. Indiana Jones had his crysal skull. we have historical footage of Sallah (and need I remind you, fucking GIMLI) taking a massive dump on screen.
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and the length and breadth of his chops, I haven't seen him do anything but act confused and stammer through lines a lot. What do you think he was good in?
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I actually admire that. Unfortunately, I think maybe I am that guy. I can enjoy stuff like 300 and Spider-man. It's fun. It's requires CGI. And you can't really make Iron Man or LOTR without it. But I hate it when CGI spoils a good film, especially when it doesn't belong there (Computer Generated blood in The Departed. Lazy fuckers).<p> The truth is, nothing dates a movie like bad effects. Nothing. Not the hair, the wardrobe, the dialogue, nothing. And sadly, computer generated effects date faster than any other form of special effects in cinema history. Most of it looks shit from the start. Some last a year or two and then they start looking like crap, but it always ends up taking you out of the movie. It completely fucks with that suspension of disbelief. Wanna know why Bridge On The River Kwai will never get old? Because Lean had them build a real fuckin' bridge and blow it the fuck up!<p> I still like the way Starship Troopers looks, though.
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Your excitement over this scatological celluloid time capsule is making me laugh, kungfuhustler. God, why am I not in bed?
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maybe you can stop being a snippy little twat. That said, where is this footage of gimli shitting himself and how does one continue getting work after that?
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for one. To this day, he has done nothing especially eye catching, but neither did Dicaprio until Scorsese took him under his wing. My point is, the guy has obviously exhibited some charm and potential on screen. I personally feel he has some work before he can escape his flavor of the month status. Right now, people only seem to like him because others do, without being able to identify a single reason why, and others hate him for that same reason. If a cinematic master like Spielberg (who's recent works such as Munich really left me breathless) has noticed him, maybe there is something there just waiting for some real direction. Still, it will take something truly splendid to get me to really like the guy.
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At least not the best scenes. i am also "that guy" when it comes to CGI - biggest reason I don't even watch most of the blockbusters these days. But Spielberg seems to know where to draw the line.
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it was supposed to make you laugh. Talkbacks can be funny too. Some of them really are. It doesn't always have to be snippy comments and insults.
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I just read about the shot on wikipedia. It's probably gone now, but oh the times we could have if it was posted on here. I imagine it would be the biggest talkback ever.
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What the flying fuck are you talking about? The man got a well deserved academy award nomination for playing a retard in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
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an entire talkback over Gimli shitting himself would be golden!
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I thought that talkbacks were created expressly for the purpose of keeping occupied the people we'd rather not have prowling about on the streets. You know, the people who were apparently raised without a parent who was willing to pop them hard in the mouth when they needed it.
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that Leo got a nomination or that Gimli shit himself on camera?
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that's why you were saying really.
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I thought that talkbacks were actually all about insults. So much for relying on appearances.
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poeticwarrior you are right dude! I totally forgot about that. Maybe that example wasn't the strongest, but I still feel like Shia has potential for better roles than the utter shite he's been in so far. It's always cool to see a young actor mature into really good movies. It's rare, but I doubt it's something most movie fans would not want to happen.
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You can't tell me that cartoonish CGI FX look really that worse than some stop motion effects from 40 years ago. I mean, I love Ray Harryhausen's work, but it just doesn't look real. The funny thing is that it isn't nearly as distracting as the saturday morning cartoon FX from "Van Helsing" or the academy award winning PS 3 demo "The Golden Compass". Why? I got no ideam but it's like that.
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I didn't even need to mention a name.
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does that include you? cut that elitist bullshit, man. ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE GO ON TALKBACKS. The stereotype of the nerd alone in his parent's basement or whatever is totally dated. Some of us are ridiculous, some of us are pompous, some of us are in college, some of us have regular families with a spouse and kids, some of us are drunk, some of us are bored, some of us just can't wait to talk about movies, but it all mixes up and you get these crazy things called talkbacks. And hopefully, if we all are what we claim to be, movie fanatics, then we all get to read some really ridiculous shit about things most of us feel extremely passionate about, whether it is in a positive or negative way.
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How is it impossible to talk about Indiana Jones without ripping the Star Wars prequels (which are looked at favorably in non-fanboy land)
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That sequence pretty much defines Indiana Jones for me. Also, the music in that scene is probably the best Williams has ever composed. Sheer brilliance...
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we're back to favorite Indy scenes again!!! everybody please give your piece!
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"Marion's Theme" is the best music he's ever composed.
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I wasn't being elitist, I was being satirical. As I have nothing else to say about Indiana Jones, I guess it's time for me to get off the board and leave it to the vivacious, ever-interesting and oh-so-entertaining mix of interesting movie discussion punctuated by posts from jackasses who failed Anger Management 101. But thanks so much for the heads-up--who knows what my incredible ignorance might have led me to believe without you to set me straight. But just for the record, I didn't use the nerd-in-basement stereotype. I'm mortified to be accused of such incredibly gauche behavior.
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I'm not sure how wet your back is exactly, but if you're like the rest of your lazy shovel leaning breed, perhaps you should get out of the fucking trailer you're living in with 50 of your stinking coke mule cousins and swim your ass back across the rio you retarded no English speaking bastard. By the way mariachi, I've got a little joke for you. Why do Mexicans eat tamales on x-mas? .......................... So they'll have something to unwrap. Have a terrific Monday dumb ass.
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calendar this morning or do you just use those kinds of things to sound like an ass ramming dandy?
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is actually Bruce Wayne's butler Alfred. I'm sure of it. And he used the word, "gauche" on a talkback. I think I'm in love.
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the map room scene was pretty damn awesome from top to bottom.
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http://tinyurl.com/6l2v39 <p>Not a glowing review by any standard but it still gives me hope. Check it out.</p>
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that was really lame, dude. You need to chill with that racist nonsense. It really has no place here and is completely over the line.
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cool review man. I remember feeling really negative about this but things just keep looking up!
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what do you think the problems with Crusade were? Very happy to hear that you like this more than Crusade, because I love that movie, maybe only a little bit less than Raiders.
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This paragraph in particular cheered me up quite a bit: <p>"Unlike the "Star Wars" prequels however, this is far from an abject failure and sits quite comfortably alongside the quality of the last two sequels. Performances are solid all round, character dynamics are interesting, the pacing almost never falters, the action is frequently gripping, the comedy mostly works, the FX are well done, and no-one can both edit and co-ordinate good old-fashioned set pieces like Steven Spielberg."</p> <p>Really, that's all I expect from a non-RAIDERS Indy flick.</p>
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damn- so they SHOULD have kept darabonts draft.
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is his ability to stage, choreograph, and film action is incredible. As long as his unreal talent for mapping out exciting action has not left, I seriously doubt I will be disappointed.
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He's just trying to get a rise out of people: he doesn't mean a word he says, he's just enjoying being an asshole for the fun of it. If it bothers you, just ignore him.
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still, saying something like that is pretty inappropriate.
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Take your tampon out of your ass and quit whining. Did you happen to read what that fuckstick wrote to me or did your tree hugger conditioning automatically kick in and decide for you that you should somehow be offended? If mariachi wants to cross the line then fine fuck it, but don't come on here yammering at me for responding in fucking kind.
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I want to know what Merrick's 14 year old son thinks. <p> But seriously, that was what I was expecting. A good, not great, addition to the franchise. Although, I really enjoyed Crusade so maybe I will enjoy this even more than Moriarty. Here's a suggestion to anyone who didn't like Crusade. Go watch Road to Morocco and then watch Last Crusade. It will give you further insight into what Spielberg was trying to accomplish.
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asshole about responding to what that fucking shit hole wrote? Quit being a pussy and feigning offense. I didn't see your sorry ass running to my defense when he was calling me a molester. I didn't see you two filled with any righteous outrage when he was saying lazy whites. Where were you two then? I guess it's ok to insult someone with a white joke but just let someone say a joke about some fucking minority and you goddamn bleeding hearts crawl out of the woodwork.
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no doubt about it, but his comments were so ridiculous and absurd (read: stupid) that you should not have felt you had to retort to racism. I myself was thinking of saying something to him for making such stupid, unfunny comments, but some on dude, lay off the racism.
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reading what someone writes to me before you start pissing and moaning and going into your fucking Oprah Winfrey mode then save your fucking time and shut the fuck up. And if you did read it and still pissed and moaned then you can both fuck right the hell off.
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Funny how that thought never made it to the page. If he'd said something other than a white joke you'd been all over it.
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he accused you of raping babies. I think you would know if you were raping babies and you're probably not, so relax. Him making such a ridiculous comment that nobody else reacted to does not justify anything you have said.
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Trouble follows me wherever I go. Funny how talking about molesting babies and a racist white joke gets no rise at all but a lazy Mexican joke fills the world at large with righteous indignation.
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You're a bitter, lonely little person, aren't you? Keep on screaming into the void sadcase.
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Thank god for folks like you keeping the internets free from white tyranny.
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why are his fucking insults taken as being so silly and outrageous but yet mine are like the second coming of Hitler? Jesus Christ get past your PC cunt conditioning.
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... stop. Seriously. Enough. It's grotesque and unfunny and just... stop.
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said nothing with any real ground at all, and should not have affected you so strongly. Try not lashing out at anyone who even remotely challenges your insane rantings. I was THINKING about saying something and stopped, because the guy was an idiot with nothing important or, even worse, funny to say. You, on the other hand, while pretty much resorting to insane rants the entire talkback, have actually made me laugh a couple times, and I expected better from you than resorting to such low jokes.
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have devolved into total and utter filth without any redeeming qualities whatsoever. I don't know if you are drunk, or mentally unstable, or just stupid, but I'm sick of you.
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now that you're finally here, favorite Indy scene?
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you're just as bad. All your accusations are utterly ridiculous, and you have yet to donate a single worthy note except to incite the wrath of one of this site's biggest nutcases.
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Still the best reviewer on this site.
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Those reviews are just ridiculous. Good Luck Chuck deserves a 3. There's no way Crystal Skull is a 3. Even Van Helsing doesn't deserve a 3 and that was a horrible movie. The Chud reviewers just have an axe to grind. Fuck em.
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but all I see is a whole page of WTF? postings. It's only a movie people. Viva THE RACE! The Human race : )
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earlier i was talking about Sallah shitting his pants and then I asked everybody what their favorite Indy scene was. then mariachi acted a fool so Poeticwarrior went sickhouse on all our asses until Mori chimed in and told him to stop. And Boromir used the word "gauche." It was awesome. So what's your favorite Indy scene?
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I still love the Map Room scene. It's just awesome, I can't explain why (plus I haven't seen it in years, so I don't why to say something like 'the way the score crescendos' when it's really a decrescendo or something nitpicky like that)
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May 19, 2008, 7:19 a.m. CST
You seem harsher now on the Star Wars prequels than before, Mori
by Oberon
...or that's just my sense. With PHANTOM MENACE you felt a "disturbance in the force" but left a largely positive (if mixed) review, and you seemed more positive about SITH. Have you reexamined your assessment of the SW prequels? Or did I just misread you?
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they're giving me a badge and everything. Maybe we can be friends if you talk about something besides poeticwarrior's pedophilia. He's not worth it anyway.
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I'm pretty sure like most your fucking confused ilk you're dumber than a box of lice ridden pubic hair. I also see TheRealDoucheBag has seen fit to leave mariachi's dumb ass on here because I'm the so called bad guy. Seriously fuck all three of you fuck wad anal warts.
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May 19, 2008, 7:24 a.m. CST
It'd be cool if Frank Darabont could post in his IJATKOTCS revie
by Wayne6000
Most AICN readers who are admirers of scripts know Koepp is an extremely mediocre screenwriter and since writer - director Frank Darabont is a regular AICN reader, it'd be cool if he could post in his review of the finished film, but after getting fucked over with his Indy 4 script, I don't expect he will.
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so poetic. this is goodbye man. I have no more words for you. And the word "cunt" may not be as funny as you think it is. Try getting some therapy man, or some sleep..
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May 19, 2008, 7:29 a.m. CST
Ummm Mori i state clearly above I think this review is excellent
by IndustryKiller!
I don't know where you got that it bothered me from. My praise of CHUDS reviews is not a condemnation of yours. I know that this is a mixed and even handed account of what you saw, but given I think this film should be held to a higher standard it really echoes pretty negatively. Like I said maybe thats because I wasn't old enough when Crusade came out to not realize how weak an entry it was but I still think this is a completely unnecessary movie and the only reason to make it would be because it's genuinely the best sequel. And Maybe evidence wasn't the correct word, but Devins review over at CHUD is the most complete I have read thus far, citing clear examples from the film and I don't think it's bullshit simply because it's negative.
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.....map room sequence in ROTLA followed closely by CMB.....Chilled Monkey Brains!
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Opening of the Ark, followed by map room, shooting the swordsman, rope bridge and mine chase.
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so fuck today's moviegoing audience and lack of both film and literary history...raiders was pulp...raiders was a 40's serial on steroids....i wasnt born in the 40s, but i knew pulp and serials...so now both are ancient history, so why bother? why do people have the internet? you can watch many of the old serials on line and free...you dont have to get into obscure pulps, but are you telling me that people have never read doc savage or the shadow pulp collections? and i still dont get how mori ranks temple of doom over the last crusade...but whatever
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...it's bullshit because of its spiteful bias. Mori's review is much more "complete" because it's fair, balanced, and has no ulterior motives.
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that's a joke people
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You're right. I shouldn't use that phrase.
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Carlito's Way. Everything else suffers from terrible third acts, even the films he directs (Secret Window).
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I'd like to see him do a non-Indiana Jones film with Speilberg, and another film with Peter Weir.
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So it's not the movie we wanted, but after the prequels, it's also not the movie we expected. I can live with that. I'm going on Saturday morning with the same group of guys I saw Last Crusade in the theater with and I feel fairly confident we'll all have a good time and spend the afternoon discussing the movie on my deck with a tub of Coronas.<p>As far as bringing back 80s icons, I still have to say that Stallone deserves more love than he's received and Lucas could learn a thing or two from Sly. Rocky Balboa was much better than I expected and every frame showcased his passion for the characters and gave them a truly dignified send off. I just watched Rambo last night and he pulled it off again. I don't think there's ever been an action movie quite like it. To say I was breathless the entire time is an understatement. I would have watched it again but it took me so long to get through it the first time as I re-watched several scenes a dozen times.<p>And Spielberg is the master of the "hushed audience" scene. The T-Rex attack and the D-Day landing are the last two I was a part of and both of those were last decade. Filmmakers today just don't know how to pull it off.
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I long for the days when 'it was an ok' movie wasn't the norm. I still think the late 70s, early 80s was the high point for sci-fi and fantasy films. The special effects were good enough to get the job done but not so much that they took over the film. I'm convinced today's directors have gotten lazy because of them.
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of the past two decades, what do you think have been the best. I think the first Pirates movie was phenomenal. It had a wonderfully clever script that kept a long running time from falling in on itself and a fine performance from Johnny Depp. The second two films were major disappointments but that doesn't affect my love for the first. I also think Spider-Man 2 was a masterfully directed film. It was Sam Raimi telling the audience, "fuck you, I can do anything." It was kind of like a history of cinema in two hours. Over the years those two have really held up for me.
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"It was OK" to me means "maybe, just maybe worth seeing on DVD". Hell, people thought Cloverfield was "OK", and I thought that was an abomination. It's not too much to ask that an Indy film should be a hell of a lot more than OK. I'll see it in the next few days, but I found those CHUD reviews fairly worded, and expect to have a similar reaction. They seem jaded, and I don't blame them. Bruce Willis in 12 Monkeys says 'the movie doesn't change, you change'. That may be so, but I can still watch and enjoy the older Indys without loading up on nostaliga first. The nostaliga occurs when you're halfway through watching one and you realise how fucking good they still are. Alas, it seems that the Berg and Lucas have, well, changed.
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I'd include the trailer hanging over the cliff scene from Lost World.
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...po'warriorII is forced to come back as po'warriorIII. He's a completely useless Talkbacker.
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Dang it.
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May 19, 2008, 8:59 a.m. CST
I love how you guys are both griping about Indy being inconseque
by somewhere.in.finland
When in Raiders, Indy is pretty much inconsequential to the whole plot. If you watch, nothing he does to protect the ark works in the end, and the nazis are just done in by their own stupidity. He spends the climax of that film tied to a post for heaven's sake! I still love the film though, probably even more for it.
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I thought the scene where they were crossing the high grass and the raptors were taking people out sight-unseen was extremely well done. Sadly, they followed it up with gymnastics.
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he certainly manages to back it up with excellent examples. When you see the film I would love to see you take him on point for point. I'd bet large sums of money you couldn't.
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I liked Crusade. My biggest problem with it was always it's horrific case of "omniscient bad guy syndrome". I'd have to say Doom was always my least favorite.
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he actually finds the Ark.
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<p>They didn't make a great Indy movie and they didn't make a crappy one. The result is something that is ok, and since George Lucas was involved that's about the best we could hope for.</p> <p>I figured the project wouldn't be great after the fat one rejected Frank Darabont's script. That would have been a classic Indy movie and Lucas ego, after the colossal failure of the Star Wars prequels, wouldn't have been able to stomach Spielberg helming a truly great Indy movie proving that you can successfully revisit a huge franchise 20 years later and produce a great film that both appeases the fan base and brings new fans into the fold.
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I'll watch it, but probably in its 5th week at the matinee. That's for putting Shia in this thing. I don't like being played by stunt casting and that's exactly what it is. Like you said, if he's so great, he should do more stuff like Disturbia instead of being shoehorned as an annoying sidekick to other major characters. <p> As for Harrison Ford, I really like him as an all-around actor. Even in stuff like Working Girl, Sabrina, Firewall ... he's got great presence. My favorite Ford movie by far is Witness. He was genuinely touching in it. Second is Temple of Doom, and both those movies demonstrated Ford in his understated heroic best.
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May 19, 2008, 9:38 a.m. CST
Comparing the action hero RETURNS: RAMBO, DIE HARD, INDIANA
by SmokeFilledTavern
I thought LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD was the worst of the lot, but Stallone made one of his best in RAMBO...total return to glory and old school action filmmaking. I'm not getting that vibe from this film. I think RAIDERS is the only worthwhile entry and will remain so.
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If you go into it expecting such, you will always be disappointed. There has never really been a truly "real-world-believable" moment in the first three movies. Suspension of disbelief is key to the franchise. If you go in expecting a fun ride with a few memorable scenese or moments, it sounds like that is what it will deliver. It's amazing, "Raiders" has always been this untouchable "lightening in a bottle" flick, but it also has its flaws. In retrospect, "Temple of Doom" has aged better in my humble opinion, though I know it's not a popular one.
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You speak the truth. I'm tired of the nostalgia argument. I agree with Jae, too. It's CGI and the need for F/X companies to outdo one another every time out. I don't think we'll ever see a period as rich in fantasy genre entertainment as th '70s and '80s, but I hope I'm wrong.
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that somewhere in the late eighties, maybe the early nineties, they stopped being about the art and story of it and more about test groups. The one exception I can think of, for me anyway, is the first Matrix film. That caught me by surprise, especially with the bad taste of 'Phantom Menace' in my mouth.
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May 19, 2008, 10:05 a.m. CST
Oddly enough, today is 9 years since Episode 1 hit theaters
by IndustryKiller!
Given all that has happened it should be a grim black anniversary, but I still remember the wonderful sense of anticipation, before Lucas made me feel like an asshole for trusting him. Ahh yes those were the halcyon years.
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This movie is the equivalent of Elsa and then Indy reaching for the Grail at the end of Crusade. 'I can almost...reach it, Dad!' It can't be done. You can't take the Grail past the seal. You can't recapture the classic '80s genre movies. You can have a fucking good try, and sometimes you'll fail, like Elsa falling to her death, but good guys like Indy and Spielberg survive if they accept they just can't make it. You can't live forever.
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"Better than Last Crusade" is not exactly a ringing endorsement. LC fucking sucked...it was not a worthy Indy movie. I trust Moriarty and his reviews are often on track (he was right about Speed Racer) but I'm still keeping my expectations in check.
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Who the hell would buy a Jack Shephard action figure?
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I completely agree. In Spielberg and Lucas's films you can see their inspirations and passions, hotrods, 50s Americana, B-movies, TV adventure serials etc. What are the passions and inspirations of Ratner, Verbinski and co? I've no idea. Probably Spielberg and Lucas films. The two beards so completely re-invented this genre of movie that everyone else has been copying them, with less and less impact, ever since.
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Sorry, but it's true. I loved Raiders as a kid but watching it recently... it's just kind of boring. The title character is iconic, sure. The music is great. But these films lack coherent plots and memorable characters other than Indy and a sidekick or two. They just come across as really muddled to me now. I dunno. I'm looking forward to this one but my expectations are low. I'm sure I'll like it but not anything more. Can someone explain to me what makes Raiders a classic other than Indy's place as a prominent figure in pop culture?
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Admittedly it's harder now (we're a lot more jaded and nitpicky than we used to be), but (for example) I enjoyed the hell out of National Treasure. It just hit all the right notes with me. Better than Raiders? No. Worthy to be on the same shelf? Yes.<p> And I think that's what has really disappeared: the *universality* of the giddiness and enjoyment. Some people worship the hell out of Spider-man 2, I thought it was Ok. My sentiments on X-men 3 coincided with Mori's. Even pulling me out of the equation: Drew and Harry completely disagreed over X3. I don't think back in the early 80s that happens. Too much has changed: opinions are 'finer' than they used to be because of the growth of available information ... we're also more likely to have our opinions swayed (even if we don't realize it's happening) by 10s of 1000s of 1000000s of people.<p> So I think that feel can be recaptured. It just won't be felt by everyone.
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Danny, you are SO the man for pointing that out. Although I think Spielberg totally missed the mark with the movie (which probably explains why I forgot about it), that initial attack when the tripod comes out of the ground was riveting, Spielberg at his gut-punching best. Same thing with Lost World (good call Sam) and why I forgot about the trailer over the cliff scene as well. Unbelievable scene in an otherwise terrible movie.<p>But it all reinforces what I said. People can hate on Spielberg all they want (although for the life of me I can't understand why), but he is the only director who can time and time again deliver a "I'm going to put on a boot five sizes too big and roundhouse you in the gut" scene, regardless if the movie itself is a stinker.
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Sure. Masterful direction, great acting, one of the greatest scores of all time, beautiful photography and, most importantly, a masterclass in action-adventure screenwriting.
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Cimaxing with THE funniest line in the series: "We...are going...to DIE!!!"
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May 19, 2008, 10:33 a.m. CST
National Treasure belongs on the same shelf as Raiders??!!
by IndustryKiller!
I weep for the state of humanity. I've gotta stop reading these talkbacks now because I'm gonna kill myself if I keep going.
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Man, I hope this isn't the Phantom Menace of the Indy series...
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Especially if the shelf is I through N (or N through R for purists)
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In fact, you pretty much validated it
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I so agree with your assessment of Ford in Witness. Ford was great playing gritty cop John Book, who gets a little soft over an Amish widow. That little dance moment in the barn to "What a Wonderful World" was terrific.
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good examples. Rocky Balboa and John Rambo did the allegedly impossible. and there's plenty of amazing moments in cinema... i think the only reason we're hung up on the '80s is because a lot of these 'types' of moments first showed up then (or as Rocky said "more like the '70s", cuz of Star Wars, Superman, etc).<p>i think the most enjoyable moments i've had in a theater were the first Matrix, Fight Club, Gladiator, and parts of the LOTR trilogy. i was a little too young to be hit by Jurassic Park in that way though i loved that movie to no end (I was in the 5th grade).<p>if you add it all up, we've had enough stuff in the last decade to outdo the '80s.
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You're young enough to not be hung up on the 80s and therefore will have more of an appreciation of movies that come out today. I mentioned in a post a couple weeks ago how in the 80s, particularly the early 80s, we only had a 3-4 blockbusters come out during the summer. And fewer theaters to watch them on so a movie played for as long as 4 or 5 months on the same screen. When you only had a few blockbusters to look forward to, you relished them like they were that feeling a boy gets the very first time he blows his wad.<p>Nowadays you only need to wait a week until the next big budget extravaganza comes out, in 1983 or 1984, it was more like a month. So to us older folk, the magic is sometimes harder to find.<p>And I can't stop praising Rambo enough. Stallone should teach classes at film school of how to take an iconic character and still retain their pure essence after a 20 year absence. Never in a million years would I have believed that Rambo would be my favorite movie of the year so far, although I have yet to see Iron Man.
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If you didn't have a BLAST watching the new Indy, then there is something wrong with YOU and NOT with this movie.
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First of all, in Raiders, we never saw Brody in any kind of stressful situation. He was safe in the university, in a very comfortable, stress-free environment. In The Last Crusade, he's put in the action. His life is in danger, and he's out of his eliment completely, something no one had seen until TLC. Sure, he does come accross as a bumbling idiot, but it's understandable given the situation he's put in in the Last Crusade compared to Raiders. WE learn very, very little about him in Raiders on the whole.
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Nine years of fan-boy fat asses crawling out of the basement to complain endlessly about a movie that was better than the original. Fuck you. Go fuck your mother with your Matrix Revolutions action figures.
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Good point. The only thing we learned about Brody in Raiders is that he is a thieving bastard for taking the apple off Indy's desk.
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You're so right. That dance with Kelly McGillis IMO stands as one of Ford's most iconic moments. That and breaking that kid's nose when he was defending Alexander Godunov.
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I dunno, I came out of the theater on the same high from that movie as I did The Matrix. Granted, Ed Norton didn't fly off into the sky, but the way the ending went down just capped an experience that led me to wonder "wow, movies can be like this?".<p>I was also a junior in High School at the time. That and the Matrix were what got me geeked out about movies. And later the Sixth Sense too. 1999 was a good year.<p>Also, I dunno if I was too young for Jurassic Park's impact, but perhaps I'm too old now to remember it? I remember seeing commercials for it, flipping out, and since going to the movies was something my parents were never used to, I wound up having to wait a month to finally go see it. In the meantime I had read the novel. That whole stereotypical 'dinosaur' phase that young kids go through... I went through afterwards. I swore I was gonna be a geneticist until well into High School (and I'm in a related field at the moment). But it's hard to remember all the awe now (except of course for that final shot of the Rex after it killed the raptors).<p>And there is one thing I'll give all '80s fans (because I still am one too)... there's just something about the movies... I'd be afraid of showing the more hard R-rated films to kids today. But I grew up on the first two RoboCop movies (my uncle was too much of a fob to understand what ratings meant or what child psychology was), the Conan movies, etc. I still have this insane memory of RoboCop 2 that sticks with me to this day (and all those little homages in Iron Man are what put that movie over the top for me). Watching RC2 at that age... it was crazy. Cain was goddamn frightening. And it sticks with me til today, because I love RC2 over the original, I love how over the top it is with everything. I loved Starship Troopers for the same reason. So while I was desensitized a bit, I did get the lessons, the fact that it WAS satire and all that.<p>I guess the gratuitous violence/sex etc. from back then wasn't all that gratuitous. Nowadays it seems as if movies have to be filled with useless violence/sex, like the movies themselves are gratuitous (speaking generally... but I guess that you guys are right, due to the sheer volume of blockbuster films being made now, we have more gems too).<p>It was also weird experiencing the 'sequel letdown' as a kid because I was still young when some of the second or third installments came out. I loved parts of The Lost World, but when I came out, I was asking myself for the first time 'why didn't that feel right?'. But for some other sequels, that childish ability to suspend disbelief made them even more enjoyable.<p>Man this wound up being long. I feel like Harry in one of those rambling reviews about nothing.
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Starring Rachel Weicz as the religious babe.
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As was 300. <p> My Queen!! My Wife. My Love ...
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I was completely blown away and obsessed with the trilogy. I couldn't tell the difference between the three, really. It was all Indiana Jones to me. I haven't seen these movies in a long, long time. I'm not planning on rewatching them until after the new one. Hopefully I get a better kick from it that way. Then I'll go back and rewatch the originals.
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Oh wait. It wasn't.
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Especially the one where Tom grit his teeth.
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I never watched them as a kid, I always saw the toys and commercials, and thought it was just an old, complex, boring fantasy-type geek thing.<p>I saw them for the first time ever with the re-release of the originals in theaters before the Phantom Menace. My first contact with the series was with the new ANH in theaters. Then I immediately bought ESB and ROTJ on my way home (couldn't wait for the remastered versions).<p>So I wound up being the same age as most of you older guys when you first saw them. The impact on me was pretty big, and I was a teen in the late '90s. Talk about timeless.
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May 19, 2008, 11:46 a.m. CST
DUDE I COULD NAME YOU A DOZEN ICONIC MOMENTS FROM 300
by BringingSexyBack
Why you hatin' on 300? You nuts?
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Perhaps you can explain something for me. It's been years since I saw Witness, and I recall the end being vague. To me, it seem suggested that Book and Rachel DID in fact screw each other and consummate their feelings. Then Book left to return to the "english world." Or it could be interpreted that they did NOT have sex, and Book simply left after the big silo shootout, leaving Rachel and her kid to maybe live life with that blonde dude (and Vigo Mortensen got nothing). What's your take?
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May 19, 2008, 11:51 a.m. CST
Capturing that 80s feel? Why? It's 2008 if you didn't know.
by strosmer
Many of you guys need to learn to let it go yourselves - the past that is. Not to mention your egocentric sense of nostalgia. You wonder why you can't enjoy anything Lucas and Spielberg put out these days? I was born into these movies and I'll argue I love them as much as anyone, but to hold them sacred and feel you are owed the same experience you had as when you were a kid is just silly.
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Devin is the typical online blogger, taken to an extreme and filled with an overflowing, delusional sense of self worth. He and the rest of the CHUD "writers" are convinced of their own superiority at every turn but truth be told they are fundamentally poor writers who are able to fool pseudo-intellectuals into believing they are intelligent and insightful. They pull this off by writing long-winded, rambling articles that often purposely cite obscure films and film theory (as if to say "ooohh, look at how much I know”) in a vain attempt to look educated. They also love to pepper in as many college words as they can, regardless of how clunky their prose ultimately reads because they, like many, equate good writing with an expansive vocabulary, which isn’t always necessarily the case. Devin and his brethren at CHUD are the typical, non-creative types who wax intellectual about other people’s work even though they don’t possess even a shred of artistic talent. They seem to lack even a fundamental passion for film and rather enter every movie with a sense of clinical detachment; a sterility that bleeds through in their joyless reviews. Even worse is the level of condensation found in just about everything they write, especially in their recent “You Got it All Wrong” feature that really is nothing more substantive than these guys masturbating in a mirror. If this kind of writing impresses you that’s fine but don’t assume everybody on these boards lacks a robust education and the ability to differentiate between quality writing and the drivel at CHUD.com. Harry, for all his faults, can and does deliver interesting and fun reads from time to time. Devin’s work by contrast reads like an intelligent but clueless college freshman trying to impress his professor with superficialities rather than substance. Sorry, but I don’t need a Bizarro version of Kevin Smith to tell me what constitutes quality, especially when he endorsed crap like Spiderman 3 and Jumper.
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Hey Mori, I feel the same way that you do, its a shame that Ford had been cast, and put himself in so many bad movies for so long. I wonder why all the great directors out there, and Spielberg as well, never bothered to call him for any work ?
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If I recall correctly, Book and Rachel did hook up. And because you and I don't recall any tawdry sex scenes, it's a testament to the film that their relationship was so respectfully regarded in that way. A true love story - with some bang bang!
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Come and get some bitch, I was just over at Kink.co and thought of you and your tiny "URL".... I noticed that Moriarty hates you, and that guy loves everybody. Poetic Warrior is playing with his little peepee (he likes using his baby talk)
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Interestingly enough, I just watched Witness yesterday. Great movie. And John and Rachel do not have sex. As John puts it so perfectly, "If we had made love, either I would have to stay or you would have to leave." The point was that they were both from two different worlds and although each could visit the other's world briefly, it was a place they ultimately didn't belong.<p> Harrison Ford signing to Sam Cooke and dancing with Rachel in the car's headlights is such a great scene. Ford at his best.
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That's what I thought. I was younger when I saw it, and wasn't sure, but it seemed to me that the film very strongly suggested that yes, they did ultimately give themselves to each other. It was very tastefully done like that. Although I wouldn't have minded a second sponge-bath / love sequence. And it would have been cool had Book used some cordless power tools during the house-raising part. The movie is still good, after 25 years.
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I have to respectfully but strongly disagree. 300 is a masterpiece. That's really all I can say - it's more than eye candy to me, it really has quite some substance to it. <p> I never read the graphic novel, so I don't know how much was attributable to Miller or Snyder, but that movie lingers in the consciousness. <p> Take, for instance, the painting-like shot of the camera pulling back from the dead Leonidas and his men - that shot itself was more beautiful than what 99% of Hollywood's directors could even conceive. And the over-arching narration that links that shot to the next ... so brilliant.
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they had outercourse in witness
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cuz Shia is in it!
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I looked up the tomatometer for "Witness." It's 96% fresh, with reviewers praising Ford's performance and McGillis' young heaving breasts
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Yes, the Amish way does not involve the removal of clothes. The loving couple simply hold up their palms and press them together, like Pon-Far in Star Trek III. There is no true exchange of body fluids, and it's not much fun at all. When they want to impregnate their spouse, they use a turkey baster brush
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It was released in 4 parts over several months in comic book format.
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John Book finds love. And love, and love and love and love and love and love ...
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I'll try that on my honeymoon. <p> BWAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!!!
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zing!
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I think you're reading us old guys wrong. I admit I get nostalgic for the movies from my childhood but I'm also willing to look at them through an adult's eyes and determine if they still hold up.<p>I've seen Jaws, Raiders, E.T., Empire, Die Hard, Robocop, Predator and Back to the Future recently and I'll be goddamned, they all hold up perfectly. Just magnificent movie making.<p>On the other hand I watched Last Starfighter and a slew of others I can't remember now (how sad is that) and I found them damn near unwatchable. They were great at the time and served their purpose by filling me with wonder and joy, but they weren't exactly made to withstand the test of time.<p>I hate to keep coming back to this, but how come Stallone can re-visit 20 year old franchises and show them the love and respect he and the fans felt they deserved. So why couldn't they do the same with AvP or Die Hard?<p>I think it's possible to enjoy quality movies that come out today but still pine for those days when movie going experiences were sometimes a religious experience. I'm now 100% confident I'm going to feel that with Crystal Skull, it just would have been nice to have that with some of the revived franchises as of late.
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Retired homicide detective John Book tries to convince his roguish cop son not to get involved with a mennonite girl he met in an airport. Features a cameo from McGillis as "Rachel," now a 50 something year old schoolmarm whose entire class is taken hostage on a plane out of Philly. Mayhem ensues. Sponge baths at 20,000 feet. Amish and mennonite kids using iPods and cellphones to thwart the hijackers
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300 is shallow, but also rammed full of moments that could be considered iconic. I'd argue that all the iconography in it is visual- It all comes from the (admittedly brilliant) style. <P>It isn't like countless other examples where the moment is a culmination of parts (the end of Casablanca leaping to mind). <P>Abom- Amish sex is anathema to true changian beliefs- Hand holding bad, humping like fevrish rabbits good. Ash has no time for hand-holding.
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and don't pretend otherwise.
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Wasn't the "Dark Images" most did, it was the fact that Indy litterally drops out of the sky into his new adventure. The set-up is just terrible, and his chjase for the artifact isn't as compelling or set-up as well as it was in Raiders or Last Crusade. TOD had amaxing action sequences, but the story didn't work very well for me.
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Naive ingenue turns up in Amish community and gets double ended by futuristic Kelly Mcgillis clone using a dildo fashioned from sanded down wood (ouch- splinters). <P>Fucking cinematic gold.
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And invoking hitchcock in comparison is horseshit. It was dull, predictable, not frightening, and I wanted to drown Michelle Pfieffer. An utterly shite film. <P>BTW, I rewatched the Patriot last night and it isn't as bad as I remember. It is not good though. If you want to watch a good version then watch Braveheart
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There's a bomb in the carriage, and if Rachel's son Samuel can't keep the horse trotting above 15 mph, it will explode across state route 3. This summer...churn up the action! There has never been an action team like Samuel Haas and Jacob Yoder
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May 19, 2008, 12:28 p.m. CST
Moriarty: I've given you heat on this and am glad that...
by Stormwatcher
You actually liked the movie as your review was the one I was waiting for. Harry gets to apologetic and forgiving and I don't agree with Quint much (vern rules!) But I know you love Raiders so I wanted to hear your views and am glad going in, that I can expect what I was hoping for. Thanks.
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It always got a bum rap on this site. I remember all the reviewers acting like it was the worst film ever. It has some fantastic, old-fashioned, scary horror sequences in it. I hated how it wrapped up at the end, but at least Ford did play a different character in it. The bathtub scenes were terrific.
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Witness 4- Amish in Perfection. <P>Try and erect a Barn in 1 day when you're dodging Graboids. You silly primitive cunts. You can't kill graboids without weaponry. They don't respond to pacifism
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If you're five have down syndrome and your mother played kick the baby just after you were born then it might be scary. <P>Otherwise, no. It isn't the worst film of all time, but it isn't good at all. It's part of a whole rash of non-scary star vehicles that are allegedly horror films and all have a twist so fucking obvious shamamamamamalan would be ashamed- (Hide and Seek is another example)
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John Book goes undercover in a Hasidic community.
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For you hand fetishists out there.
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Actually, Yackbacker, they could ... since from ages 16-19 or 18-21 (somewhere thereabouts) Amish are allowed to fully partake in society. There could be Amish watching us. right. now.
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The Patriot wasn't as bad as you remember? Ouch. For me that's the only Roland Emmerich movie that really holds up.<p>Unlike ID4 or Transformers or Pirates 2/3, the Patriot is one popcorn movie that entertains without insulting your intelligence (whoo, I can feel the backlash over that remark coming on). I thought Jason Isaacs gave one of the great unheralded performances for a villain, even if he was over the top and chewing the scenery.<p>Danny, I'll show the Last Starfighter to my daughter when she's older but that dialogue. Yikes! Even the dated effects didn't bother me. I will give you this though. For a little while at the beginning I felt like a 10-year old again.
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Wow, that's just ...<p> Ok, here's how I sum up the problem with the Patriot: Cowpens National Historic Park refuses to sell it in their giftship. The park ranger gives you dirty looks if you even mention the movie.<p> Yes, if you can detach yourself from historical reality or even plausibility, then I can see how the Patriot could be considered a good film. Otherwise ... wow.
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Ignoring Raiders for a second. Temple of Doom is released now, right here, right now in 2008. What would the critical reaction be I wonder? It would be savaged plain and simple. And what of The Last Crusade? That too I guarentee you would be shot to pieces by today's uber savy "seen EVERYTHING done it ALL worn the t-shirt fucked your wife and mother" CRITICS. The Indy movies WERE NEVER critic proof, even Raiders hitting screens in this day and age I fear would be subjected to a level of scrutiny that would make you fanboys second guess buying a ticket in the first place. Look these movies are not works of art, they are by there very nature PULPY, SILLY, slices of pure escapism. Bottom line, if you have any time for this character at all then you should welcome him back and not punch this gift horse in the mouth.
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Get what you're saying, pal. I wrote that post off-the-cuff to see what response it would get. I'm an "old guy" myself - 33, and see a lot of pining for the way things were, especially when it comes to 80s franchises. I believe one sets oneself up for disappointment that way, granted I'm underestimating many a fan when I make that statement.<p>Lucas and Spielberg were pioneers of the blockbuster. We'll never see the likes of '75 - '85 again. That's fine. It should be it's own age that we appreciate it all the more. After all, until new filmmakers decide to tackle their own visions with the same verve and risk-taking that Lucas and Spielberg (Lucas in particular) brought to their own work, we may not see anything quite like the movies of that era ever again.
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Unless of course you subscribe to the theory that Shiva made Indy fall from the sky to save the children and return the Shankra stone, as was the assertion of the old mystic who greets them when they land. The film certainly suggests that the supernatural powers of Shiva and Calli may be real. And technically speaking, once Indy and the others arrive in India, he makes a choice to investigate the palace. If he had simply wanted to leave, he could have gotten the help of the English soldiers visitiing the palace. He does stumble onto the adventure but there seems to be other factors at work.
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I would guess Darabont's script would have been btter in a lot of ways. Keopp's sounds too Frankenstein, as Mori put it. And all that bad dialogue sounds like a buzz kill. Too bad Marion is underwritten; and that there's no bad guy comparable to Belloque or the Nazis. But looking forward to this film nonetheless.
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Do you mean implausible in terms of everything human beings could conceive, or implausible on the basis of what actually occurred in the America Revolution? I meant the latter.
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is his least favorite of the three, and the only good to come out of it was meeting his wife-to-be Kate Capshaw. And it was Lucas who stated the darker tone was due in part of the awful divorce he was going through.<p>And What Lies Beneath at least gives Ford his first crack at playing the villian (The Conversation doesn't really count). And I like the digital work that Zemeckis employed within the structure of a "suspense thriller'. Unfortunately, I found little thrilling or suspenseful.
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You just listed most of the movies I've raised my son on. I'm probably one of the old fucks on here too, but that list still holds up for me at 38 and my son at 10--a testament to fine films that it can be enjoyed by different generations. Though my family is biased and I should probably have lost my fatherly rights for letting him see EVERY geektastic movie I grew up with since he was 4. The kid was wearing an Indy vest at 4 and asking me when the next movie was coming out. Man I better cut this short as I am about tooooo ramble... Classic cinema that deals with life's tangibles at it's core transcends time, SFX, politics, intrawebd, chuds, haters, mehers, donnies and Cannes. AvsP was a fucking travesty. Alien, followed by the just-as-awesome-for-whole-'nother-reason Aliens were two fantastic genre films that don't seem to have been watched by the creators of the AvsP series. That series no longer needs Ripley. It can be done from the wealth of content out there in the Dark Horse Universe alone. This rehash on 80s nostaligia seems to be a working them lately and if done well we should be able to expect some good pieces soon. Unlike this tripe I read this morning about a Red Dawn redux. WTF? Shit I said I was going to ramble and look what you've made me do. OK, I apologize for going off. Did I make sense? Do kids still put up movie posters? BTW, my son has an Indy IV one sheet hanging in his bedroom now and I will be pulling him out of school on Thursday to see Indy together. I've built FANTASTIC memories of seeing great movies with son as my father tried to do with me before he pass at the early age of 36. Last movie he took me too was Escape from the Planet of the Apes :D Sorry men, our times are over. All we can do now is inlfuence the next generation of geekboy fans and hope that they too will be lucky enough to get the great shit that we had.
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Read my actual post. I was defending TOD, which I love. I think it makes perfect sense within the context of the story.
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In reverse order:<p> No, not English. Born in Jerseys, live in North Carolina now.<p> No, I don't find Braveheart superior to Patriot. I never really thought to compare the two, although I guess the shared leads and historical basis could lead one to.<p> If you hadn't mentioned Emmerich was behind the Patriot, I wouldn't have remembered that. I'm not a film geek by any stretch of the imagination.<p> Guerilla tactics by militia is very much the reality in the Southern war. However, most of the confrontations -- especially in the Carolina backcountry -- took place between two bands of militia, one loyalist, one patriot. When the Redcoats did show up, the Continental Army typically lined up (as they did at Cowpens ... of course, Morgan put the river behind them to ensure retreat -- the bane of every American leader when using militia alongside their troops -- was not considered an option).<p> There are two great flaws in the film historically. One is the remolding of Tarleton into some sort of Nazi-esque villain. The British were trying to encourage the Southern Loyalists (of which there were many) to split with the north. As a result, they never would've burned down a church with the town's citizens in it. Ever. Not in the South.<p> The other great fallacy is the fact that the Redcoats play such a prominent role. Shit, King's Mountain and Cowpens by themselves would make a tremendous film without fictionalizing -- so why fictionalize? Why can't we see Americans on both sides? Why is it only British versus American?
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ROTFLMYASSCOMPLETELY OFF !! That was for the_lake_effect.
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Because his best stuff is when it's dark (Doom and Empire).<p>Chrth, I knew that was coming. OK, when I say it doesn't insult our intelligence, I wasn't talking about historically. In that regard it misses the mark completely. But unless the Nazis are blasting the Allies with laser guns on D-Day, I can live with inaccuracies.<p>The Patriot had one or two groaners but overall, it was about as intelligent as a popcorn flick is going to get these days. And by intelligent I mean that there aren't any robots jumping out of Air Force One and scurrying across a tarmac filled with people and go unnoticed. There were no fart or urination jokes. And for a popcorn flick it had a great cast (Gibson, Ledger, Isaacs, Wilkenson, Karyo, Cooper) who didn't just phone their performances in.<p>Anyway, this is an Indy TB so I don't want to continue to go off topic.
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And I can see how someone can enjoy the film. My problem, though, is I've just spent so much time wrapped up in the Revolution (especially in the South) that I can't divorce that from my expectations. It's just an elephant in the room I can't ignore.
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the talkback I was on like seven hours ago? Why the hell are you guys talking about the patriot? Sallah shat himself in one of the shots of Raiders. Gimli...pooped his pants. Wiki that shit.
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I'll try again. favorite Indy moments everyone?
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Just watched it again big screen on Friday. Perfectly pulpy prequel, right in line with serialistic storytelling giving us a sidecar Indy adventure that doesn't tie itself down with any drama (making it an even more perfect Indy film IMO). Indy is more rough around the edges here. Willie didn't annoy me because here character is supposed to be annoying. Played rather well. And is Spielberg paying homage to Looney Tunes? I love the raft falling from the sky, it's fucking hilarious. There is no sense of reality in an Indy movie, which is why they are so much fun.<p>This movie kicks in right when Willie says, "Let's get out of here" and Indy replies, "Yeah, all of us." William's awesome TOD theme kicks in, we have the hero zoom (ode to Stagecoach?) with Indy standing in the shadows, he knocks that thugee from off-screen so hard he slides ten feet into the gravel (one of the those great "Fuck yeah" moments), and we're off to 40 minutes of non-stop 'Spielberg-in-top-form' action. Truly thilling movie.
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People love Indy. It doesn't even matter if the flick is limp in places. This is the kind of flick everyone goes to see. There's no demographic for it.
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My daughter is only turning 3 in August so right now she's not permitted to watch anything beyond Cinderella and Finding Nemo (although she once put in The Incredibles all by herself and went batshit crazy for it). But I'm hoping to introduce her to all the good stuff and hope she enjoys it as much as I did when I was a kid.<p>I've got her yelling "Go Celtics!" (and "Go Panthers!" during football season) so here's hoping she becomes a chip off my block.
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Ill wait until those soiled slacks appear on ebay...maybe signed!
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Some of the greatest moments come during the truck chase scene in Raiders. I mean, c'mon, the look on Harrison's face as he's holding onto the Mercedes hood ornament for dear life and that sucker breaks off? Classic. And then watching the stuntman methodically move under the truck is breathtaking.<p>And then there's all the facial expressions in the series. The look on Marion and Beloq's face when Toht pulls out the chain that turns out to be a coat hanger? Christ that's fantastic. Followed seconds later by Toht's "What shall we talk about?" Jesus I could go on and on.
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I am more than aware of what "Bloody Ban" Tarleton did. I am also aware that at the battle of Cowpens, after Tarleton left the field, the patriot militia slaughtered the surrendered British troops. Yet that wasn't in the movie. Why do you think that is?
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May 19, 2008, 1:40 p.m. CST
AREA 51= in Nevada. Hope someone already corrected Mori
by thebearovingian
What? I'm not reading through all those posts!
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I never got the hate for ToD. It's different in tone from Raiders for sure, but it's a damn fine and entertaining movie. And it's not the insomnia cure that Last Crusade is.
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that's exactly what I said earlier in the talkback when I first asked this question!!! the truck scene to me is a legendary piece of action. It's pretty ridiculous that Spielberg's second unit filmed that too. Who were those guys anyway? I also really love the opening of the Last Crusade. I remember first watching that as a little kid right after I had joined boy scouts and thinking, "holy shit this is gonna be awesome." Well, maybe not those words exactly, but that scene is just sheer Indy fun, with the rhino, and the snakes, and it is just terrible River Phoenix isn't with us anymore.
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Maybe Area 51 is in West Springfield ... or was that Area 51a?
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Come ON guys!!!
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Is that they cram so much of Indy's characteristics in one sequence: whip, snakes, scar, hat. It kind of takes you out of the scene a little bit (oh look, that's why he has a chin scar! etc) I think the snakes would've been better if he hadn't landed in a pile of them. Can you imagine, everyone would be like: hey wait, he used to not be scared of snakes! I wonder what happened? Then that could've been the intro to a different film.
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I'm talking Indy here.
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I would rather have all the zaniness at once than have a bunch of flashbacks or something. I just remember already being an Indy fan as a kid when I first watched it and feeling like I was watching a boy become the legend I knew he was.
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You wanna talk about civilians being blasted? Rambo, boys! Holy smokes I ain't never seen nothing like that. Bits of people everywhere. Stallone should have done a movie tie in with Chunky Soup.<p>Anyway, back to Indy.
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not having clear good guys and bad guys makes for a much more dynamic film. With heroes on both sides, we are forced as humans to consider the costs of war. That's why the Iliad is such a great piece of literature.
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I've already ventured the Map Room as my favorite, but the rope bridge sequence in TOD is a really close second. Even though I always thought the bad dudes should've figured out something was up sooner (between Short Round and Willie grabbing at the ropes, and the way Indy was holding the sword)
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when that guy gets pulled into that rock grinder thing? Or when that fucking enormous Nazi gets airplane choppered? Or when that guy gets whipped up into the fan? Those are all actually the same actor too! The only actor to show up in all three of the old films, I don't know about KOTCS though.
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two different trilogies. Comparing them is like saying one flavor ice cream is better than a certain kind of pie. who gives a shit? Both are tasty in different ways.
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I mean, didn't you think it was really dumb of Indy to leave behind a quadraplegic Mola Ram to be saved by Kali?
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I'm with KFHustler on this one. I loved the opening to Crusade. River Phoenix was perfection. And they way they segued into Indy getting beat down on the boat? Only Spielberg can pull that off.<p>And I don't care what any of the Crusade haters say, the tank sequence is in my top 10 action sequences of all time. No CGI, just brilliant direction and choreography.
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this site consistently seems overrun by schizophrenic bitter cynical movie haters
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I read that somewhere; and he was supposed to have a bigger part in Last Crusade, but was heavily edited
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I just love how chaotic it is. Indy's dad sliding on the tracks, the three Nazis getting blasted by one bullet, the bumbling fight inside the tank, Indy riding the horse up to it, and hanging on the turret. So much is happening, but it's staged perfectly.
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I too have a 4-year-old daughter. But I learned there is an easy way to assimilate them with your/our tastes. Starts with cartoons. Sure let her watch the mind-numbing stuff out there, but also make sure she sees all Scooby Doos--the psuedo-action/adventure/terror in those show alone will build a nice inquisitive foundation for more hardrcore action drama in the near future. Just yesterday, Nora saw the Indy toy whip on TV and had to have it. I would have got it for her, but she hasn't sat through the trilogy with me or her older brother Nik, 10. All of my friends that I grew up with loving movies, skipping school for opening days are now states away from me so I have to do these things with my family. I think if I had to classified on this board as to what my criticque style is I would have to say that I have Harry's emotional attachment to the in-theater screening, lack most everyone's movie chops, have whated thousands of movies and I'm just very bitter that I have to be put into a position of taking my kids to mediocre BLOCKBUSTERS. Gone are the days of wrapping yourself into a line around a theather in hopes to get into the last showing. Burning sun or beating rain. Burning sun was for Star Wars when I was 8, my mom's friend wore a tube tub and I was mesmerized. The juxtaposed to standing in the rain to see Raiders on opening day. Our theatergoing experience were all fresh and visceral. Now pick a megaplex, hang out inside before the show, eat, play games, don't here to much about movies buzzing around. We're spoon fed and our only Meh fuck it. Here's how we do it. I buy this recently departed mutlitheater down here in Floirda, and just recreate the 70s,80s,90s movie going scence every weekend. Create a website that allows all members to vote on the flix for that week. Then we vote for best pick and it gets to stick in for the next round when introduce several more to compete against. For shit and giggles, when can show originals versus "reeee-imagininggggs" Make sense? And of course all our great discussions will be feuled by tasty libations. We can also bring our kids so they can experience the wonder that we did--and then smack upside the head when they ask to go see Speed Racer.
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is totally badass. When Williams' "March of the Slave Children" kicks up and Indy punches the Thuggee guard, it is definitely a 1980's "Don't Fuck with America" moment. . . kind of like when Chuck Norris blows up Rostov in "Invasion USA" when he says "Rostov, it's time to die", as well as John McClane's Yippie Ky Yay dispatching of German terrrosists in the original "Die Hard"
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is that guy even in Last Crusade? i can't remember a standout scene like in the other two movies. Shame. Indy falling on his ass after getting socked square in the nose by that huge Nazi is priceless. I love all the really human Indy moments, where we see how vulnerable and completely mortal he is. It makes the stakes higher and it makes the viewers sympathize more.
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When Rambo got on the gun and started blasting EVERYTHING, I'm surprised everyone in this TB didn't hear me hooting and hollering. I haven't cheered like that since, "Dick? YOU'RE FIRED!"<p>The shootout in Marion's bar is pitch perfect film making too. Come to think of it, is there one second of wasted film in Raiders?
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I felt kind of guilty for being the only one cheering in the theatre, but eventually everybody got caught up in the killing frenzy. It's a mad world. I love when Rambo first saves the villagers with his bow and arrow and you really get the sense of how quick he is.
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That was seriously what George Lucas wanted to do for this movie and why it took so long to make a fourth installment. Someone prevent him from ever working again.
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Spielberg highlights that that guy is the Nazi official running with the Nazi colonel toward the Zeppelin before it takes off. That guy (I think his last name was Roach) was supposed to get into a fistfight with Indy prior to the "no ticket" scene, but the fist fight was cut.
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My bad.
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I really would like a response, jsut because your reviews help me gauge whether to take my five-year-old to a movie. This is an OK movie to take one that young?
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Because if Stalin can have "ongoing efforts" five years after he died, that's gonna make Denholm Elliot look like a real fucking slacker if he doesn't also make an effort. Oh and why the hell isn't Short Round in this? Didn't that kid grow up to be a martial arts expert? You would have to be a moron to not utilize that for a crazy ass-kicking cameo, even if he's not that popular as a character.
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No Indy movie has ever been released without an 8 in the year. 1981, 1985, 1989, 2008. So the next Indy should be in 2018.
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When Indy fondles statue's breastesses. As a kid, I loved that!
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We're having trouble with my 4 year old son thinking everything is a gun. He'll even hold action figures sideways and "shoot" you with them. He likes Indy, having seen the movies at home on DVD with his older sister. But I've tried to impress upon him that Indy really doesn't use a gun that often. In fact, in Temple of Doom he loses the thing right away and doesn't have it the entire movie. In Crusade I recall he "triple shoots" a couple Nazis on the tank, but that's about it. I try to discourage the gun thing. But shit, even kids fare these days feature guns / sidearms.
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Every single minute of TOD.
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1) the entire last 40+ minutes of TOD<p>Ok,I'll break it down more than that, and start over (in no partuclar order, mind you).<p>1) Marion whacks Indy in the chin with the mirror<p>2) Truck chase<p>3) Mine cart chase<p>4) Tank chase <p>5) Sallah catches the "bad date"<p>6) "No ticket"<p>7) Coo, chuk chuk chuk chuk chuk!<p>8) "Adios senor" Poor Alfred Molina, didn't stay out of the light (never realized that was him before)<p>9) Giant boulder!<p>10) The Ark burns the crate<p>11) Melting and exploding faces<p>12) Snake surprise and chilled monkey brains<p>13) "We are going to die"<p>14) Live heart pulled from chest<p>15) "Water, water, WATER!"<p>16) Crocodiles feasting on thugees<p>17) "Prepare to meet Cali, in Hell!"<p>18) Street fight in Cairo, concluding with one the great on-screen improvisations<p>19) "I've found him." "Where?" "There!"<p>20) "I'm sorry, son, they got us."<p>I could go on, but I don't have all day. Woohoo! May 22nd. Get here already, baby.
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you got that Indy was going to have sex with Willy. I saw Temple of Doom when I was 6 and did not get the foreplay scence until much later. . . and the critics say these are kids movies
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Yeah I haven't bought the DVDs yet. I have the tapes, but I'm holding out for a little longer. Plus, I'm a poor as shit college kid.
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I'm glad that there are guys like you and Danny that keep the movie going experience alive. I sort of gave up when my wife was pregnant and we went to War of the Worlds which was close to her due date so I knew it would be our last outing in a while. The terribleness of the movie was only outmatched by the a-hole factor of the audience. So I said screw it, bought a projector and put together a decent little setup so that I could enjoy everything at home. I will be seeing Indy in the theater this weekend though.<p>I first saw Star Wars when I was five so my daughter is only 2 years away from that. So the clock is ticking.
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Dude, we are probably in the same age range, so I too recall fondly, my early movie going experience with the likes of Jaws, Star wars, Close Encounters, Empire, Raiders, etc. <p> However, I do not have any fond recollections of standing in long movie lines. <p> Yes, I did it, for a select few movies, but I never enjoyed it to the point where I would want to do it again. <p> It is always dangerous comparing one era to another, and saying 'it was better' back then, because most of the time, that is an entirely subjective point of view. <p> I point out that previous generations than ours, watched movies in the grand movie houses that could double as stage theatres. When they were fazed out in the mid to late 70's, a piece of movie history was lost, without a doubt, but the communal experience of movie watching - the thing that keeps us coming back instead of just waiting to watch them movie at home, was not significantly altered.
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I mean, it's really long. But easy (and fun) to read. Nice review..
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until I came to online message boards like this. I always assumed people just loved these films unconditionally. Like me.
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You know that Lucas will probably release a 4 or 5 DVD pack with all the films (and a behind the scenes DVD) just before the Christmas shopping season. And they might be in the Blu Ray format. . .Bottom line, after buying 4 different versions of Star Wars, and two versions of Lord of the Rings, I am going to wait a bit until all 4 Indy's are standardized on Blu Ray
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Unless you keep the little snowcones in complete isolation, there is almost no chance to prevent the type of exposure to images that may cause you and Mrs. Abom some unease, but make the lil snowcones giddy. <p> Guns, and bikes (motorcycles) are two things guaranteed to make a small child (boys mostly)lose their little minds. <p> I applaud the efforts to reduce exposure to violence and sex for the wee ones. <p> That is only good parenting. <p> But what you can not limit, is when they interact with other wee ones whose parents are not as vigiliant.
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I pretty much knew they were gonna do the kissy thing when I first saw it - and Willie delivered one of the best lines ever in that scene ... "I could've been your greatest adventure" (with Indy reaching for her)
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The bit where Indy puts his fist through the whole and says:<P>"DO IT...NOW!".<P>Something about not being able to see his face and yet still feeling his frustration cracks me up every time.
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So you're just a pup. Enjoy these times, dude. It doesn't matter if you're broke. I'd give a toe, kidney and left nut to be back in college. Good times.<p>I spilled my beer during the bow scene. I didn't expect Sly to come out and wipe the floor in the blink of an eye. And really, I think we all need my scenes with a bow through the head. Call it the "Steve Martin" shot.<p>Indy running behind the gong as the bullets ring off it. The sound unit should have received an oscar for that alone.
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I got your back man. I just can't shake those feelings I got when I first watched them when i was little. coming back to them to prepare for the new movie, I thought I would see loads of flaws. I did notice some problems with pacing and some annoying little things (Willie) but they didn't really change anything. When you see Ford flash that Indy face, and Williams' score plays over the incredibly staged action, it's just one of those things I don't think I'll ever get tired of.
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Geez.
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Batman in '89. Most memorable was Return of the Jedi. Went to the mall with my whole family. The line literally wrapped around the entire mall, and it was a big fucking mall. That's the only problem with multiplexes, no more megalines like the good ol' days.
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If one bird takes a shit on it for "comedic relief" I would be pissed also. Hope I'm wrong.
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The same 4-year old woke me yesterday morning by shoving the earpiece of my glasses into my ear canal, causing acute, prolonged pain and substantial blood loss. A visit to the local UrgiCare revealed that the drum was not ruptured, just some cuts in the ear canal. Little bugger! NICE TRY LAO CHE!!
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didn't know they were minutes away from reenacting the Kama Sutra scenes depicted on the bedroom walls!! But in all seriousness, that is what is great about the Indy movies; they have different moments that speak to different generations. When I was a kid, I loved Short Round because it kind of reinforced the idea that "hey, I am kid like Shorty, so I can go on Indy adventures too!". It may sound dumb when your 30 like I am now, but back then it was believable. And just like Last Crusade, I liked Connery becuase I am a Bond freak, but the father-son relationship took up a deeper meaning the older I got and the more and more I realized how much of a best friend my dad is. We are going to see Indy together and I can't wait!
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...is, without a doubt, the horse & truck chase in RAIDERS. From the moment he says, "What truck?" and gets on that white horse, you are witnessing one of the greatest action sequences of all time. That is the moment Indiana Jones became the kick-ass hero we all know and love.<P>(Seriously, you will never beat that whip-under-the-truck maneuver. It's flawless.)
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Movie watching is a (mostly) subjective experience. <p> I mean sure, in the right crowd, you might find yourself laughing and cheering for scenes that you otherwise would not do - and that is part of the magic of watching a movie with large groups of people. <p> But boards such as these, allow people with gripes and hang-ups (real or imagined) to post them. And perhaps it is resonant with some, and perhaps the herd instinct kicks in with others, so they join in on the bashing. <p> But do not let that change your opinion of what you enjoyed.
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Nice to have a TB without the vitriol for a change.<p>The wheel on the table in TOD is awesome too. Especially William's score as they exchange items.
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here on this geek movie website that I attended a wedding and reception on Friday that was also attended by Kate Mulgrew (Captain Janeway from ST: Voyager). It took everything in my power to not geek out on her, but I was able to keep cool. It was clear she just wanted to be a "regular person." She sure cut up the dance floor to a couple Temptations classics, though. Woo hoo! Set for Stun!
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That was entirely your fault for not sleeping with the proper head gear. <p> I am sure you learned a valuable lesson. <p> You probably traumatized the little cherub with your screams of pain.
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Well if Indy wasn't gonna hit it, Shorty would. Did you see how she flirted with him at the dinner? Damn!
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You didn't even ask her if Janeway is really dead?
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is the first 10 or so minutes of Raiders, the Hovitos temple exploit. Indy says almost nothing, except stuff like "He was good, he was very very good" and "Stay outta the light." But it's how he ACTS in the cave and the temple that speak volumes. It's completely friggin' iconic, that moment with the Williams music at a crescendo as Indy rubs his five o clock shadow while eyeing up the gold fertility statue, then measuring out the sand, then the ensuing mayhem. Fuck I love it.
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I am definitely enjoying it. A bunch of the guys already have our tickets all lined up for Indy, and the day after that I am driving with my girlfriend to the Sasquatch Music Festival in Washington for three days of ridiculous, buck nasty (yeah I actually said that) times. It is good to be young in summer, with another INDIANA JONES MOVIE coming out!
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I just wonder if kids that are 5-12 years old now will be saying 20 years from now "Dad, do you remember when we say Iron Man?" like we do looking back at Indy and Star Wars? I doubt it. We were very lucky to be at that age when the Lucas-Spielberg behemoth was at its best.
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She looked pretty alive to me. I was about to report her to Starfleet for her smokin' dance moves.<p> ToadkillerDog, what happened was, I woke up, howling in pain and grabbing at my ear. My kid said, "Daddy I have to go potty." Seeing the blood, I said "Yeah, and I have to go to the hospital." Lesson learned. Sleep with helmet on.
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At least the cherub did not say "Here endeth the lesson."
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I was disappointed that he did not stab me with a pencil. But then I reconsidered and realized 1) at least he stabbed me; 2) he drew blood, so for a 4 yr old his technique passes muster; 3) lacking a pencil, he used the next available "found" object, to wit: my glasses on the table; and 4) he seemed to enjoy doing it. <p> Work is almost done, so if I disappear it's because I've left to go pick up the little bugger at daycare, where maybe he'll have dispatched some nonbelieving toddlers
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she's had it with my Jonesing for the new Indy movie. For the last month, I've been saying "Do you know what happens in 20 days?" "Do you know what happens in 10 days?" "Do you know what happens in 5 days?" <p> "Yes dad," she'll say, rolling her eyes. "We get to see Indy."
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I have a feeling they will say that about certain things, like the LOTR trilogy for instance, but real big movie events are few and far between. They tried with PotC but boy howdy they pooched that one up. If they can pump out two more great Iron Man movies to square off a great trilogy then kids probably will look back on it in 20 year like we view Indy now.<p>Mr. Nice Gaius, the truck sequence might be my all time favorite. No CGI, no MTV-style quick shots, no "Ahhh hell no!" In fact, there's no dialogue. Just a man, his whip and a shitload of determination.
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Remember how the hitman used his glasses to stab some dude in the neck?<p> Or, he is just an ingenious little feller!
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Do not forget the Harry Potter movies. <[p> The first two were weak, but they still brought in kids by the truckload.
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Yeah, he says "THERE!" and points at Indy over on the sub. Now see, that's a stunt I could never pull off, because of my fear of sharks. It's Spielberg's fault, because of Jaws. I could follow Indy on many adventures. But you ask me to go swimming, no sireebob
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the casting of river was pure brilliance...you could really imagine that this kid grew up to be indy...but how in the fuck did a guy like indy and a babe like marion have a kid that looks anything like shia? why wont marion admit that she got knocked up by the jewish milkman?
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Absolutely! Azkaban being great!<p> I am just waiting to see the duel between Mrs Weasley and Bellatrix. " Get away from my daughter you bitch!"
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Even though it's badly acted, written and full of groaners:<p>Krull<p>I have no idea why that movie deserves a free pass from me but I can watch it every couple years like a gleeful kid.<p>The scene at the sub station where the Nazi gives Indy a hard time and Indy liquefies his nuts and his cap flies off and Indy grabs it.
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Half Blood Prince is due Nov. 2008
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CHUD can eat itself.
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Yes indeed, that's one that our kids will talk about as they drop us off at the retirement home.<p>I thought the first few were dodgy but I really liked the last one. So I'm hoping they keep getting better.
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But Ford has great comedic timing. It's a better buddy cop film than that shitty rush hour franchise.
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They SO wanted this movie to fail. I guess THEY failed in the end.
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I agree, it can only add to the movie going experience if the last three movies follow the trend of the previous two. <p> Although I have my misgivings about the break-up Hallows into two movies.
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And now they've left the franchise as a "still-smoking crater," or words to that effect. Seems a trifle inconsistent. If you liked something, you liked it - turning around and bashing it now seems like a ploy for credibility. And if that phrase was meant more to describe other reactions to those films, it should be noted that they grossed billions and a new film (albeit a cartoon, which is the next logical step, since that's all the prequels really were anyway) is coming out in August...doesn't exactly seem like a smoking crater or ruin or whatever to me. And now I await the charges of "Lucas apologist."
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...you know the only review that would make these people happy would focus on three main points:<br><br>1. Lucas has re-raped my childhood.<br>2. Spielberg hasn't made a good movie since ET.<br>3. Hell, all American movies suck these days and you're better off watching an import DVD from Korea.
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That's when Horner really knew how to score a movie. When he wasn't using his "piano of doom" is every single piece. I wish I knew why I loved Krull so much but I can't put my finger on it.<p>If they really nail the final Potter movies, that will be a series I'll take a day to sit down and watch all the way through.<p>I'm fairly certain Mori called the movies a mixed bag in all his reviews. I read his Phantom Menace review last week and he was trying not to dump on it but you could sense he was really disappointed.
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This is now a town with a positive outlook.
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No shame in being a Lucas apologist. I didn't read what Mori said about the prequels; I didn't read the review. The prequels are hotly debated on AICN. You can start that thread in just about any given talkback and watch haters and apologists go after it like rabid dogs. It's a never-ending debate on this site whether they are actually good or not. I love the original trilogy as much as anyone, but I think the prequels are fascinating in their own right.<p>Oops, I hope I didn't start a prequel thread right there. Just forget it gents. Please, stay on Indy!
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And I thought I was the only one that didn't feel it deserved all the hate it received. It was the first time in a while I watched a Ford movie where I didn't think he was phoning it in.
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I will not hold that against anyone, when I feel it is a legit change - and not a simple pandering to the crowd or herd mentality group think. <p> I think when reviewing a movie such as Phantom, where the build-up has been tremendous, perhaps even unprecedented, it becomes more difficult to divorce your desire of wanting a truly transcendant experience, from the reality on the screen. <p> It may take some time to step back from that event in order to see and appreciate more clearly what you experienced.
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I thought Harry was the guy who repeatedly had them in his best of the year lists.
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Quote: "Just a man, his whip and a shitload of determination."<P>FUCK YEAH, MAN!<P>And that scrunched up, pissed-off look on his face as he throws the Nazi captain out of the truck, runs him over, and then runs Belloq & Co. off the road is PRICELESS. It's made even more precious by the fact that it's only after he's done kicking ass that he realizes that he's still in pain from the gunshot to the arm.<P>God I love that movie.<P>RAIDERS FOR LIFE, YO!
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That's why Indy is iconic and Raiders is king. At just about every turn he is shown as an everyman who bleeds like you and I. And Spielberg's brilliance is to make us fully aware of that mortality.<p>The shared laugh he and the Nazi have as they watch other people getting hurt before Indy slams his head into the dash. Oh baby!
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I actually liked his performace, but the plot was awful. He (and we) deserved a better film.
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On the one hand it's what makes him give some great performances. As an audience we can relate to whatever he's going through no matter how removed we are from his experiences. It's what makes adventure fare like Indiana Jones and The Fugitive truly memorable. <p> On the other hand it makes it difficult for him to realize there's an element of art in acting. He really sees Hollywood as a service industry. At one time he was really pushing his craft (several people have mentioned Mosquito Coast already). Then his name became synonymous with blockbuster and it became apparent Ford felt his role was just to make massive amounts of money. That's just not enough. He's painted himself into a corner. I'm really hoping for a late career revival out of Ford, as unlikely as it seems.
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After all, look what it did for Superman Returns.
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I grew up on Long Island and waited in lines for Jaws (I was only 5, parents locked the keys to the Electra in the car) and my mom still talks about how for the first time in a movie I didn't move, talk, ask to pee or beg for popcorn. I waited in lines around the Fox theater in Setauket to see Jaws 2. I waited in lines for Star Wars, Empire and Jedi. I think you guys nailed it with the whole aticipation package. We had Starlog to track movies, no internet, and I read every issue through and through. After seeing Star Wars and reading all about CE3K I was psyched--as a kid I was disappointed. Where the space battles? The slobbering aliens? Took many years for me to appreciate that one and it's still on of my favorites today. And if you can excuse me, I would like to use the term "reboot" and apply it to the original franchise. I still think that beastie has legs if done correctly...like a Scott/Cameron team or some such thing. Luckily aliens don't age and throw in some new storylines--shit armada of Colonial Marines--actually NOT under company control going out and hunting them down planet by planet until they get to the bug homeworld would make me happy...not sure about the rest of the world though.
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Seeing him on screen, with the hideous thought that they may one day try and pass the franchise over to him, may be enough to push me over the edge.
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ROTS better than TOD? No. I'll take a quality fistfight, mine car chase and rope bridge battle over some non-involving lightsaber fights and 15 second long "oops, i forgot all about that, let's make up some crap to explain it" scenes.
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That particular reboot has been done, it is called Starship Troopers! - I actually really enjoy ol ST. <p> I am with you 100% about CE3K - I was greatly disappointed as a kid, coming off of the space battles in Star Wars, and being by the director of Jaws (the scariest movie I have ever seen). <p> It is a damn good movie - just not a alien vs earthman, space battle type. <p> I remember how disappointed I was at Star Trek the motion picture, which also squandered an opportunity for space battles, but, unlike CE3K, it was a terrible movie which does not hold up. <p> But Wrath of Khan? Now that kicked ass!
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All depends on what you like, maybe you like them both and it's a win-win situation... but at the end of the day, Paramount and Marvel Studios are laughing all the way back to the bank, ignoring a begging WB ex-employee now a bum because of SR.
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Starship Troopers really needed the jump suits, otherwise a perfect, campy, bugstomp romp. But it ain't Alien or Aliens. There's a lot of good Alien material out there that was probably laughed off by the studios. Who the hell knows, maybe someone will pick up the current arc and do something spectacular, right?
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one of mine is from "The Last Crusade." Henry Jones Sr.: "Those Men are trying to kill us!" Indy: "I KNOW DAD!" Henry Jones Sr.: "Well, it's a new experience for me." Indy: (Handing the satchel back to his dad, and adjusting his fedora) "It happens to me all the time."
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Are you willing to offer up your verdict on which drafts were good, and which were bad, now that you have the perspective of seeing the finished result? We want to know who we can blame for everything that we hate after we've seen it, too....We all know you have a personal conflict of interest when it comes to reviewing Darabont's script, but the way his version has been spun by Darabont, in all his apoplexy over its failure to earn Lucas' seal of approval, we really need to know: Was Frank's story really that good? And why?
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One other question: Why didn't The Beards just go back to once-favored scribe, and Beard the Lesser, Lawrence Kasdan to write the whole thing?
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. . . especially from a guy named Krullboy after all. All hail the Glave
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...and has the best lightsaber duel. Fuck you, haters.
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Kasdan was consulted in the writing of at least one scene in the script -- as to why he didn't write the whole thing, I'm guessing it's the same reason he didn't write Temple of Doom or Last Crusade... he's successful enough to be highly selective about his projects and he had enough fun on the first one.
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The Qui Gonn/Obi Wab/Darth Maul light saber duel was and is awesome, especially since we had never seen that type of fighting in a SW film. But I disagree with TPM being #3. If the film had been more consistent, it could have ranked up there, but with every "Qui Gon cutting through steel doors" awesomeness, you had Jar Jar stepping into crap. Qui Gonn arguing with the Jedi Council was awesome, but we never enough of it. The concept of the last land battle on Naboo was good, but the execution was a little over the top. I love SW, I just wish TPM had been more even. . . AOTC had the same problem, but at least ROTS was somewhat more balanced
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Is one of the funniest scenes i've witnessed in a film in recent years. Hilarious. The film sucked yes, but that scene was awsome.
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V, III, I, IV, VI, II
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1. Empire 2. A New Hope 3. ROTS 4. Jedi 5. AOTC 6.TPM
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I agree with all that. I think that the Jar Jar stepping in shit is part of the SW give and take that you have to endure. For example, for every Luke getting force-lightninged, you have to deal with Han stepping on a twig. For every "he will take care of you" you have a "so love has blinded you?" All that aside, all the movies kick ass.
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he a sad case but he's a funny bitch just the same. people need to grow balls.
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and all the indy movies! they may not be perfect and at times pretty bad but i love em just the same. yeehahhh!!!!
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Great points. I will say that despite how much we pick at them, the prequels are Star Wars films. They may not have the same place in peoples hearts as the original trilogy, but I did enjoy seeing them, I have all of them on DVD, and it gave me more opportunities to see Star Wars movies with my Dad. Not to sound too sappy, but one of my earliest memories was my dad having to read my Jabba the Hutt's translations in the theater when we saw Return of the Jedi. Getting to see Star Wars again 20 years later with my Dad was great. And I feel the same way about Indy IV
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1. The Empire Strikes Back <p> 2. A New Hope <p> 3. Return of the Jedi <p> 4. Revenge of the Sith <p> 5. The Phantom Menace <p> 6. Attack of the Clones <p> Not a single one of the new trilogy makes it in the top three and here's why: characters. Say what you want about Jedi, but it had characters who I wanted watch. I can't say the same thing about Sith.
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But Marion did not stand toe-to-toe with Indy in Raiders. At best she was a bad-ass in Napal and afterwards turned to complete milk-toast. Please, stop being simply nostalgic.
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I'll stop to watch that one anytime.
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1. Empire 2. Hope 3. Sith 4. Jedi 5. Menace 6. Clones (Just about the wirst dialogue ever on Naboo. Make me sick that Lucas was that out of touch).
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You listed just a few of the many reasons why Empire is great. I could watch it over and over and not get bored. I am not sure what else Irvin Kirschner did career wise, but wow, did Empire deliver
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Glad you served yourself so efficently this morning. I was highly entertained to say the least.
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Exactly! Along the same lines, I am taking my 5 year old to see Indy on Friday night. THAT'S the beauty of this whole thing. To be able to pass this along to the next generation. Also - I am showing my son Star Wars in episodic order - one a year - so that he has to deal with all the anticipation. So he is the great Lucas experiment. Last year he saw The Phantom Menace, collected all the action figures, dressed like Darth Maul for Halloween, etc. At Christmas, I showed him AOTC trailer and we finally saw it last weekend. So far, he is getting just as much joy out of the new trilogy as we had with the old trilogy - sheer excitement and awe.
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TELL US ABOUT DARABONT'S SCRIPT!!!
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Oh well, that happens when you wake up at 5pm right?
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That list can't be real?
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...jesus fuck. My handle is Short Round for chrissakes. I'll eat it up like it was a Knights of the Old Republic script...
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May 19, 2008, 5:45 p.m. CST
Keeper of Chimps, glad you can share that with your kid
by krullboyisback
Dad and I still do Star Wars marathons about once a year, and still talk about it all the time. Interesting what you said about showing your kid the prequels first and he enjoying them. I witnessed the same thing with my best friend's 10 year old: He loved the prequels equally if not more than the original trilogy, which is interesting to see
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1: Star Wars 2: The Empire Strikes Back OK, this is where it starts to get tricky. 3: Attack of the Clones - yes it has problems (hello Anakin and Amidala) but it's COOL and the last half hour is amazing. 4: Return of the Jedi - all over the place, Ford is terrible and too much rehash from the other movies but great Luke/Emperor confrontation and the greatest space battle in history. 5: The Phantom Menace - badly written and edited, the lightsaber fight is the saving grace. 6: Revenge of the Sith - total letdown. A bunch of scenes crammed together. The movie does not flow at all. Some nice pieces - the opera seduction, some of the lava lightsaber fight but overall an unholy mess.
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everything is relative...ROTS is like Lawrence of Arabia compared to Pirates of the Carribean and Spiderman 3.
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Scum and villainy indeed. If you can't see that Episode 3 is a bastardization of everything that came before it (the OT I mean, the other prequels are also bastardizations) then maybe you just don't get Star Wars.
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and skipped the talkback. I am relieved with Harry, Mori and Ebert all giving positive marks. Can't wait. I'm double-featuring this on Saturday with Narnia which I don't expect much from, but I have a big ass gift card to the theater and it sounds like a fun day out.
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That is such a change for AICN talkbacks. It's actually heart warming!!! To all you who are taking your kids to see KOTCS, value what you have. I am sure you do, but my wife and I lost a baby a couple of months back. I still hold on to my dream of sharing the movies I love most with my child one day, but it won't be quite as soon as I had hoped. So you enjoy that moment, yeah? Star Wars rankings: Empire Sith Hope Jedi Clones Phantom
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I think its that one loves what one grows up with. My kid will think the same about Phantom Menace what I think about the original. We are both looking forward to the Clone Wars.
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I'm also looking forward to Clone Wars. . . not that I am expecting anything approaching the live action films, but it will be 2 hours of Star Wars in a cool, air conditioned theather in what will surely be yet another hot, humid, miserable Midwest August!
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The day you are able to share these films is definitely something to look forward to. I wish you well and hope your wait is not long. Take care.
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this talkback should go down in history as the greatest ever. I remember writing on this thing all last night trying to get people to name their favorite Indy scenes, and then poeticwarrior went completely berserk and mariachi made an ass of himself. And I had a final today also! Damn though, if it ain't great to see everybody doing something besides launching insults at each other
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May seem strange dude, but that's one of the nicest/kindest things anybody has said to me this year. Enjoy!
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collaboration folks...enjoy it.
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Let us know if you think Temple or Crusade is better.
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Glad you were able to lift that burden off your shoulders, Moriarty. When it comes to pressure nowadays, that has to be near the top, right?
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and I can't pick one! Too many. I got two hectic days at work then five days off starting with Thursday and I have the making of book arriving on Thursday morning. Can't wait!
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Bono is right on the money with his SW listing
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AOTC proves what a badass Lucas is at directing action himself. Most fanboys write AOTC off as the worst because of the lovie dubbie bullshit that only takes up 10 minutes tops of screen time. AOTC has some of the greatest set pieces in cinema history and is hands down just one killer of an action flick. From the chase through Coruscant (Obi-Wan leaping out that window - fuck me, one of the best Jedi moments ever), to Jango's relentless laserfire attack in the asteroid field (includes that incredible camera movement following Slave I - among the most unique I've seen in cinema), and then a trinity of set pieces - the droid factory, the arena, and the battle of Geonosis (another feat), it is a fucking rollercoaster ride of a movie. I didn't even mention Obi-Wan and Jango duking it out on Kamino. There's plenty of other great moments in that movie. I love when Anakin takes off across the desert on the speeder bike and "Duel of the Fates" kicks in, and then he returns and blows up at Padme. That was good acting there, and helps to segue what seems like an otherwise sudden turn to the dark side in ROTS. Keep watching the prequels dudes. There's more there if you keep looking, and plenty of great moments throughout. You just gotta accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, don't mess with Mr. Inbetween. ;) Later cowboys.
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...literally.
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I knew there were good people on AICN, I really did. May 22nd! Yes!
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Check out the schedule for any of the teams on mlb.com for May 22nd. The Indy love is everywhere!
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Some of the greatest set pieces int he history of cinema???? HAHAHA. RIiiiiiight. Hayden Christensen whining abrasively without displaying a seconds worth of subtlety or real pathos at Padme is good acting?? Dude you've gotta be fucking around. I like your little mantra there "accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, don't mess with Mr. Inbetween". You would make a really great communist or death cult member thinking like that. You'll go places.
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Are you naive enough to think MLB.com is promoting Indy out of the goodness of their heart and their love of Indy? lol
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My favorite moment of all three films, two of which were filled with a LOT of great moments.
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Serenely we read the reviews, and serenely we await the carnage to come Memorial Day Weekend (starting Thursday), when all of you will meet the Phantom Menace of Indiana Jones movies. The signs were there, we warned you. Now will come the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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May 19, 2008, 7:18 p.m. CST
Yackbacker, not to be picky, but Anakin's turn started long befo
by krullboyisback
I know Lucas may not have done the best job of doing it, but I think he tried to show that Anakin had a dark side early on. Even in TPM, Yoda said that he had misgivings about Anakin...his shenanigans in AOTC were also supposed to show that his immaturity was foreshadowing his evil side
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I was starting to feel like Michael Cain in Zulu, fighting off all these savages myself. I would agree that there is a moment, a single moment, where Anakins mother dying could be considered touching, then that moment is killed with overly dramatic and unintentionally funny moment thats he actually dies. All that was missing was the back of her hand on her forehead. It would have been such an easy fix that it really stands as an example of what a dispassionate hands off director Lucas is.
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the most exciting Indiana Jones film. It's the only one that perfectly captues Indy as a larger than life pulp hero. And his father/son chemistry with Short Round is pure magic. And on a side-note, Last Crusade is dulls-ville.
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and susceptible to committing atrocities then yeah Lucas set it up early. but the depth of how someone truly comes to that place in their life is totally and utterly missing. What is there is bullshit completely lacking the deft touch an arc like that calls for in both directing and acting. the moment when it actually occurs seems random and forced. Potentially one of the greatest moments in cinema all boils down to a random, heretofore unheard of, premonition. Then what happens when the premonition comes true, like he foresaw it was going to, WHICH WAS HIS ENTIRE POINT FOR TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE? Nothing. He does absolutely nothing. Making his change even more arbitrary. Pathetic indefensible storytelling. Which I suppose I will be enlightening apologists about until the end of days.
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Though it has issues, it is an exciting movie. There is literally never a dull moment, and though it is a prequel/sequel to Raiders, it is very much an antithesis of the style of Raiders. . .but you know what, that is great! If you look at the successfull franchises in films, the episodes that are very different from the rest stand out and do quite well. Take for example Aliens. Compared to Alien, it is a completely different type of movie. They are both fantastic, different, but exist in the same universe adequatley. Also, take Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. Though it probably has the least "outer space" stuff in compared to the rest, it is many people's favorite, largely due to the change in the movie's location and structure. Someone earlier said it best, that Temple of Doom could stand alone as its own film, while Last Crusade could not as easily stand on its own. Thoughts anyone??
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But first. What a bunch of douches at Chud. Ok take it away Ebert. Now what else can I tell you, apart from mentioning the blinking red digital countdown, and the moving red line tracing a journey on a map? I can say that if you liked the other Indiana Jones movies, you will like this one, and that if you did not, there is no talking to you. And I can also say that a critic trying to place it into a heirarchy with the others would probably keep a straight face while recommending the second pound of sausage.
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Ebert started his review talking about eating four pounds of sausage. After the first 1/2 pound the rest can never supass it.
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...in cinema history"???!!!??? WTF. i can only assume that AOTC is the only film you have ever seen then yeah? That would be the only way you could possibly think that it has some of the greatest set pieces of all time. There are better set pieces in Margot at the Wedding. AOTC is by far the worst of all the SW film.
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I absolutely agree. Temple of Doom has its own legs, and boy can those legs jump. Watching Temple of Doom is comparable to meeting a sexy, carefree woman and discovering she also possesses warmth and a great sense of humor.
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As I said in another review's discussion, they did not do a hatchet job on him in TLC. He in no way contradicts what little we're given in Raiders. "But he says he'd have gone after it himself." Yes, he says that because he knows he doesn't have to. It doesn't mean he used to be Indy. Just listen a few seconds later. He says "It's not like anything you've gone after before." Not "WE'VE gone after", because he didn't go after stuff! You may not like the character, but don't pretend he used to be something better.
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1.Empire- Splendiforous <br> 2.Wars- ill never call it hope <Br> 3.Jedi- the gang back for the ending. <br> 4.Menace- Liam Neeson+Darth Maul <br> 5.Sith- McDiarmid the only good thing <Br> 6.Clones- awful acting, even the action sucks. Poor Chris Lee
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I liked Temple of Doom even more than the others! Of course as I got older I appreciated Raiders more. I just love the part when Indy is fighting Mola Ram on the bridge and he begins chanting Sanskrit, bringing the stones to life. . I love how he is pissed and he is using his knowledge and "out-religioning" Mola Ram to get the upper hand.
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Been watching the trilogy every night along with the other Indy specials? Watching the History Channel docu now. Intellectual perspectives on the man the missions and the movies as a whole. Interesting stuff. Also, wrapped my 4-year-old daughter in her big brother's old Indy vest and hat...didn't look right with the skirt.
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Otherwise Indy's adventures would come to a dead halt because of some trade blockade.
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i wonder why that is. shame too since pulp are my favorite type of stories (and i'm not even talking star wars/indy), hopefully some time in the soon future audiences will mellow and love it.
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1.Temple of Doom <br> 2.Raiders <br> 3.Last Crusade <br> hopefully Crystal Skull can be better than TLC (but that's not looking right since Connery>Beef). but it can never beat Raiders.
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watched it last night and thought they did a great job. .. I am a History Channel addict, and this was one of the best shows they have ever produced
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Watching it now and you are correct, really well done.
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were you the guy i had a disagreement with earlier. ToD is my least favorite. It's crazy fun, but Raiders is definitely first, then Crusade, then Temple. Still, all of them are great. And let's pray KOTCS holds up well to the rest.
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It just seems REALLY ironic to me that Moriarity should note that the biggest problem with INDY/SKULL is David Koepp's script (which he describes as being a Frankenstein creation gluing other writer's pieces together) and then he also notes that one of the strongest things about RAIDERS was Lawrence Kasdan's script.<p>I say it's ironic because now everyone is ranking SW films and for the most part are putting EMPIRE at the top or JEDI ahead of any of the prequels, both of which were also written by...Lawrence Kasdan.<p>Seriously, what the hell? Was there some really big behind the scenes blow-up or ego battle between Lucas and Kasdan? When you really stop and think about it...and think about how RESPECTED Empire is and how RESPECTED that Raiders is...given how rich his fat ass is, how the fuck did Lucas NOT write the world's biggest check and rehire Kasdan to do rewrites on all the prequels or even on SKULLS to make them shine?
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You're ranking should have ended with A New Hope... cause you just compared the listless/search-for-good-things (aside from ms. portman) crap, to Empire and Hope. Everything following, according to the laws of time and total-lameness, should never be allowed to dim the greatness of the original two films. Despite how much you fanboys fund the films that CGI'ed the shit out of 'em to not look 70's/80's original, btw, way to finance "awesome" special effects that are nothing shitty-at-the-time 90's CGI.... whose coinciding lameness and success I somewhat blame for the god-awful "prequels," (aside from ms. portman's beauty). I completely and totally lost all respect for (present day) "Star Wars fans" and Lucas in the 90's.
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I particularly enjoy the first paragraph. He sounds like he actually understands Indiana Jones. He gets the roots and the fact that he's a pulp creation. <p> And Attack of the Clones is easily the worst of the Star Wars films. There is very few I can recommend. I enjoy large segments of Sith and I can see how some good editing would really save Phantom, but Clones is a disaster from start to finish. What a waste.
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apologies for grammar and syntax in my previous post, but I stand by the main points... only the original two films were good, and everything following, especially the 90's CGI covers, were by and large god-awful.
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He understands Indiana Jones cause he's from that era, the 70's to 80's, when Spielberg and Lucas where in their prime, Ebert was right there with them. He understood their sort of filmmaking.<p> However, nowadays, I think most modern is just lost on the guy. He seems to approach movies these days with that old way of thinking. Speed Racer for instance...
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I will have to check it out!
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Despite what the ebook says... Anakin's turn is due to: 1. The Jedi's took him away from his mother then wouldn't allow him to go save her when he knew she was dying (something foreshadowing the events of ROTS, which apparently Lucas didn't decide upon until filming ROTS) 2. The Jedi wouldn't let him get to his full potential because, in his mind, they were jealous of his powers. 3. The Jedi wouldn't let him be with the person he loved, causing him to have to sneak around them - something humiliating for someone who feels he is more powerful than they are. 4. Yoda won't tell him how to save the woman he loves and Palpatine will. All of these are explored fully in all THREE films. What parts are missing for you. Does he need another reason to go bad?
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My biggest gripe with TPM is still Jake Lloyd. I'm not talking about his acting skills and all that (that's a whole separate issue). I'm talking about the fact that WHO CARES about finding Anakin as younger kid? And I think THAT'S where Lucas really blew it and took the biggest misstep.<p>We get to see Luke, Leia and Han across 3 movies -- and relatively speaking not all that much time passes between the films. The Prequels should have done the same. They should have focused on Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan locked into a certain age bracket...basically Anakin should have paralled Luke...and Lucas should have stuck with that. The symetry would have been more direct. Anakin, the father, spends 3 films as a twentysomething going from novice learner to being a villain and becoming Vader, meanwhile in comparison Luke, the son, spends 3 films as a twentysomething going from novice learner to being a hero and a full Jedi.<p>The problem is you just don't NEED Jake Lloyd. When you stop and think of it, why couldn't Qui Gon have just found Anakin as Hayden on the planet? If nothing else, if Qui Gon felt Anakin was the chosen one and DID find him as a grown young man...and now took him on as his apprentice...again the symmetry would have been so much better with Yoda's line in EMPIRE about Luke that "He is too old to begin the training." Now in an epic sense it would be more powerful because Yoda would REALLY be saying "Oh fuck no! We tried to teach his father at this age and look where THAT got us!"<p>Lucas should have scrapped the kid aspect of TPM and just gone with a young adult Anakin to start. Hell, scrap Qui Gon too for that matter. Just have Obi Wan arrive with his apprentice...let them discover Anakin...start the Obi Wan/Anakin connection right from the start in the first movie and go from there. Then let Obi Wan's apprentice dies along the way, which means now he has an opening to take on Anakin by the end of the first film. And with a twentysomething Anakin introduced right away, the sparks could fly between him and Padme and it wouldn't seem as creepy or odd that Natalie Portman is trying to play extra young so it looks less creepy that she and this little boy are attracted to each other. Hell, that way when AOTC opens and there's that scene of Obi-Wan and Anakin (Hayden) in the elevator going to see Padme, where Anakin says "I haven't seen her in so long" it could have been only a freakin' year which would have been ALOT more realistic in terms of them first meeting and still being attracted to each other.
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Bitching about the presence of CG is stupid in this case. I just watched the Indy trilogy and I have to say, the matte paintings and sketchy blue screens of especially Temple and Crusade are pretty bad... CG, while not as good as actual true effects (stunts, real environments, etc), are FAR better than much of what is seen in Temple, Crusade, AND even moments in Raiders. So that's a NON ISSUE.
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I still liked the inclusion of Qui Gonn, as he represented the "Old Republic-ism" GL was trying to convey. . . I just wish he could have been in more of the prequels.
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I read an interview with some writer who said he co-wrote the dialogue for that scene, and you can totally tell. That scene demonstrated competent dialogue as opposed to the rest of the PT. Do you know who that writer is? I can't recall, and I've not been able to find it.
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are the most incompetent imbeciles since the NeoCons. Fucking tools of the galaxy - as well as of the Emperor.
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check it out!! hahaha!!<br> <br>New CGI shot in Raiders TV airings<br> <br> http://tinyurl.com/4ec8t5<br> <br>i think it's awesome way to go george. ha ha! i know you are gonna freak out now.
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You know everyone here is going to go watch the new Indy film in theater. Admittedly, I won't be contributing to it's opening weekend, but only because I don't want to deal with the crowds.
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he gives a reason for Obi-Wan to take on Anakin as an apprentice against the will of the council. Also, as krullboy says, its nice to see the Old Republic and to get to know about Obi-Wan's training as well.
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Any more "training" from Yoda and he would've been turned to the Dark Side pretty easily. <p>
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Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
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I agree with everything you said about 10 year old Anakin in TPM, it makes the viewer of the PT like both actors (Jake & Hayden), when he is Darth Vader, and it should have been the same actor for 3 movies at 20-25 years old. Now I don't agree with what I am saying, but Lucas WANTED Anakin at 10 years so he is the only true character arc in the 6 movies from kid to his death, everyone else just gets a snap shot of their life, so now Lucas can say it is the 'Tragedy of Darth Vader' and pretty much rewrite the OT story, so now the story we grew up about Luke's character arc is just a blip during Anakins life. That is a great idea, the problem is Lucas made Anakin such a doucebag in Episode II & III before he becomes evil, nobody can identify with him or really care, so you don't give a shit about that character arc and when his life goes tragic, I was actually rooting for Kenobi on Mustafar!
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who would direct, what would the story be, who would you cast differently?
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He is consistently the coolest character in all of Star Wars.
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I got into a major debate with a fellow AICN TBer back in 2005 when ROTS came out, as he argued that Obi Wan was the MOST EVIL person in the SW universe!! I didn't agree with a word he said, but it was a lively debate.
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Anakin says he will "stop people from dying". Anakin promises his mother that he "will not fail again". Both of these thing tell me that Lucas knew exactly where he was going in ROTS. As for differences in the script. Have you read the Annotated screen plays? Empire is completely different. Vader feeding his demons? What about Jedi? Obi-Wan helping Luke fight Vader on the Lava lake with Yoda's image flashing. There's nothing wrong with changing your script.
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Well, you could look at it that way. He pretty much puts everything bad into motion. Along the same line, after TPM came out, I had a friend who was convinced that Qui-Gon is using the Jedi mind trick on Obi-Wan during his dying "you must train the boy" bit.
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since the prequels and Indy IV are both continuations of beloved franchises decades after they supposedly ended. And while the prequels have received mixed feelings from critics and fans, it appears Indy IV will do just fine. . . Interesting compare and contrast grounds for a lively TB
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does anyone know why Qui_Gon and Obi-Wan had all sorts of powers never seen again in other Jedi in either of the other two sequels? Like the Flash Gordan dashes, for example.
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or even later in the same movie? Seems that hyper-speed might have come in handy fighting that mute mutant.
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Wasn't the writer David Mamet?
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Goddamn that's some good shit.<p>I'd give up on the prequel debate. Regardless if you love or hate the movies, I don't think there' one person who won't agree on at least thee things:<p>1. Lucas should have handed the scripts off to the best in the business so they could clean up the dialogue.<p>2. He should have let someone else direct all 3 movies.<p>3. Jake Lloyd should never have been their first casting choice.<p>Everything else can be debated until we're old and gray so what's the point?<p>Indy rocks! Can't wait for Saturday.
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The one thing I've never understood is that most everyone is going to judge this movie by what has become before it. While it is technically a sequel it is actually a new film.<br><br> Everyone keeps assuming that the movie should be better than the previous versions but as far as I'm concerned, maybe that negativity should be directed at the screenwriters and not the directors, producers or actors.
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The haters in droves. My apologies to those who were enjoying a relatively hater-free TB.
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For some reason, I've always confused those two. Tom Stoppard did some work on the prequels.
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If you listen to the ROTS commentary, Lucas DID change the scene after he shot the original turn. The original turn happens when Sidious reveals himself the first time, and Anakin turns right there. Then Mace and Co come to arrest him, and Anakin is by Palpatines side the whole as he watches them fight, and stands there frozen as to not know what to do, and Palpatine finally kills Mace, as that whole sequence of events was about Anakin turning because he thought the jedi were the BAD guys, and saving Padme was just a minor reason why he pledged to Sidious. Lucas sees the dailies and thinks Anakins turn is too dull, too fast, no oomph, so he rewrites the whole sequence leading up to it and after the turn, and now it is all about saving Padme, so there could be an emotional reason for his turn. He shoots Sidious revealing himself, and Anakin then goes to tell Mace in that reshoot. He then creates a new scene with Padme/Anakin staring at each other on Coruscant with that eerie music. Then he shoots the arrest scene with Anakin now finally turning when he chops off Maces hand, and then he goes and kills the Younglings. The problem is Lucas kept the whole second part of the movie he already shot in the context of Anakin turning because he thought the jedi were evil, as he says to Kenobi on Mustafar and also saying, "My empire!" So you have essentially one movie in ROTS with 2 different contexts of why Anakin turns, before Lucas changed it, all the shots once he goes to the temple and kills Younglings, and after Lucas changed it everything leading up to the turn. That is why the turn scene really doesn't make sense.
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if i'm wrong sorry but i assume this meant that thing where they just zip around real quick. if thats the case, we HAVE seen it before back in Empire. when Vader gets Luke to fall into that chamber, he jumps out reaaally fast right before the gas or whatever freezes him. he comes out so fast its basically a blur and was just the same way they did it in the prequels so it wasnt something new. i could be wrong here but i think it happens again in Jedi during their final fight.
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Lucas can't even keep his ridiculous prequels consistent with the OT. Leia clearly states to Luke in ROTJ that Padme is alive until she dies when Leia is very young. That she remembers that she was very beautiful and sad. Now the typical apologist response to this "Duh stupid she's talking about her adoptive mother." Which is ridiculous. The whole point of that scene is Luke lamenting over the family he never had and asking Leia about the mother he never knew. One of two things is happening here. Either Lucas fucked up the continuity of his own story or Luke and Leia are, unbeknownst to them, talking about two completely different people, which robs the scene of all its dramatic weight and makes them look like idiots.
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O.K. you are stuck on a desert island with only one movie TOD TLC or any blockbuster from recent years. Transformers Spider Man etc.. who ya gonna choose. Even today TOD my least favorite is better than 95% of the tripe put out. And any FUCK from Chud who thinks the second two Indys are sub par. is a screwball. Raiders was sublime the next two never matched, because you cannot surpass perfection. If Indy IV is half as good as TOD or TLC it will be better than all the trash thrown our way.
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May 19, 2008, 9:20 p.m. CST
Its completely explainable why Anakin would think...
by Keeper Of Chimps
the jedi are evil. Palpatine is constantly telling him that they are jealous of his powers and they want to overthrow the republic. I think this is pretty clear in the released version of the movie.
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Even with its flaws it beats the shit out of most adventure movies.
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because that's more or less what you just said.And you know what, you may be right in Lucas' twisted vision. But it's still horrible character writing.
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In the timeline Anakin would be in his 40's and, I'm sorry, but Sebastian Shaw is clearly out of his 40's in ROTJ. But then again maybe the dark side made him age prematurely, like Robin Williams in Jack, which is actually a film about the dark side, which jack is strong in....or something. Or maybe just that pesky meth addiction.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
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Please leave now.
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"Only my new powers can save you" to Padme in the supposed scene from the old script that was left in. That sounds like she was at least a major focus of his turn the entire time - especially since Lucas took such pains in AOTC to show that Anakin was hung up on the fact that he wasn't powerful enough to save his mom from dying. BUT more importantly, why is it so absurd for Anakin to turn to the darkside and hate the jedi with the information we have - they took him away from his mother, stole his childhood (haters should be able to identify with this), won't allow him to save his wife, and are trying to take over the republic - AND, from what Palpatine says, THEY AREN'T EVEN THE GOOD GUYS. So - for a weak, arrogant, little shit like Anakin - I think thats more than enough.
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Love ya, Industry. You are one spicy meatball.
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...the haters have NO LEG to stand on. Accept it: INDIANA JONES is back!
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Nice post.
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There have been a lot of good comments on Anakin's turn in this TB. . .but there are other questions that Lucas could answer to assist in the debate 1. So what was the real outcome of the prophecy, and where did it come from? I know Lucas says that Anakin in the one (not Luke), but a strong argument could be made that only Luke could empower Vader to turn on the Emperor in ROTJ...2 How much blame does Qui Gon deserve for bringing Anakin into the Republic political machine in the first place? 3 If Mace Windu was trully weary of Anakin, he should have sent him with Obi Wan to Utapau (classic management tactic: place someone you don't want around you in a far off posting)
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He's Darth Vader and he spawned Luke. I'll answer your questions: 1. Anakin spends the 2nd half of TPM and the 1rst half of AOTC upset, "cold", and angry that he isn't with his mother. 2. Obi-Wan keeps him from saving Padme in AOTC saying "he will be expelled from the Jedi order". Yoda tells him to be detached, when Anakin asks him how to save someone from dying. 3. The Anakin/Obi-Wan relationship is at the very center of ROTS (surely you can admit this). Seriously, put the same scrutiny to the OT. Really, do this. You will find the same flaws. The same script inaccuracies, the same wooden acting, the same Lucasisms that drive so many people crazy.
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Isn't a huge leap of faith to buy into any single aspect of Star Wars? I back up my previous post. How do we even know that people in Star Wars age the same way we do? The beauty of Star Wars is that it works despite all it's loose ends; you can insert your own imagination into it to fill the gaps. That's all Lucas wanted to do with the movies in the first place, stimulate the imagination. Mission fucking accomplished dude.
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Nicer post.
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Moriarty, you lying fuck! You gave generally positive reviews to the prequels and now you bash them, what the hell? What is it with you internet douche drinks and your inability to stand by your word? Is back-pedaling that much fun? Fucking sheep! You belong with those bitter, joyless cunts at CHUD.
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I don't know, I'm definitely not going to re-watch Phantom, but I'm pretty sure they Jedi's pulled some brand new moves, early in the film, that were never displayed again.
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Yack, the OT works for you because, I would imagine (and I'm speaking for myself here), you probably didn't scrutinize films in 1977-1983 like you do now. You probably had a more willing suspension of disbelief. As for the dirt being real in the OT. Really? If this was 30 years ago, would you have a problem with blue screen technology? You have a problem with CG? Does that make any movie of the current decade tough to watch? "Then I'll see you in hell!!"
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Thanks!
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Qui Gon used his light saber in a bad ass way to cut his way into the Trade Federation's bridge!! Plus, seeing how both Qui Gon and Obi Wan used their light sabers on the droids was bad ass as well
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Thank you! Stoppard rings a bell because at the time I thought it was odd a playwright of that caliber would get involved with a Prequel, but since the first two were so atrociously written, it only made sense for Stoppard to lend some help. If only he had written more ... <p> Thanks for the info.
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Yes I would have a problem with a blue screen even then. Maybe not as a child but once I got older I certainly would. It's the difference between a fake plant and a real one. One has life and a sense of being, the other is a hollow window dressing. It's the difference between what is real and what is obviously not. What you can lose yourself in and what is constantly reminding you that you are just a spectator. Its prevailing opnion that CG is overused on todays landscape. And if you think the Obi Wan Anakin relationship is front and center in ROTS then you are clearly just seeing what you want to see. Don't worry it's a common problem with apologists. Their relationship is constantly short shrifted and besides a few brief, unconvincing forced, poorly written moments they don't seem like they ever got along and certainly can't be best friends. As for analyzing the OT, there are some very minor flaws but otherwise it's completely devoid of the things that ruin the PT. Especially script and acting wise.
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Cuz I agree too!!!!!!!!
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NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE.
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TOO SHIAY
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Is that we're so EASILY having this discussion about the Prequels. I'm with IndustryKiller and Yackbacker and others on some of these totally OBVIOUS story flaws. Hey, I'm old enough to say I saw STAR WARS as it premiered and long before it became A NEW HOPE. Hell, SW was so influential it really is what made me go to film school and pursue a career here in Hollywood.<p>But what's so sad is that when JEDI came out the fans grumbled a bit...not terribly, but a bit...as Obi Wan even back THEN had to explain the story lapse of "You told me Darth Vader killed my father!" at which point we got the sort of worming out of things answer "What I told you was true...uh...from a certain point of view."<p>But what's sad is that 30 years later you would have thought that given how fucking HUGE Star Wars has become that Lucas would have brought in writers by the score. Hell, I don't care if they actually got to rewrite the DIALOGUE. If Lucas wanted to be enough of an "artist" to say "I want to write it and direct the final film my way", I can accept that. What I still fucking CAN'T accept is that Lucas never paid writers or gave an extra bonus to Steve Sansweet or pulled in the geeks running the Force.net or whoever else was a diehard SW geek and didn't say, "Ok, so what are the continuity holes I've left open?" Seriously, there is just NO WAY that even a diehard fan (and again, I am one) can't look at the prequels and say "What the hell? Did you just pull this continuity out of your ass? What the fuck is THIS? How can this guy be this old here if he was that old there?"<p>Considering the fact that Lucas always prides himself on his editing days, you'd think a guy who's formal training is in editing and making sure things make up right would have done a fucking better job with the story glitches. And considering he had ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD to get it right and had 30 YEARS to rework it again and again till it was as sharp as a knife only makes the prequels that much sadder as film events...
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TPM is very close to the OTs in many ways.. .I actually felt that when I watched ANH immediately after watching TPM. I just hope that when I see "Clone Wars" this summer, I don't sit there and say "this is what the prequels should have been". . .
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I grew up with the OT, saw them in the theaters back in the day. Those films are near and dear to me, but it's not just the movies it's the memories attached. I think some of my peers have nostalgia tinted eyes when they look at those films. They had their moments of cheese and some ridiculous dialogue. Like Harrison Ford said "you can write it George, but you can't say it" Luke whined, Ewoks sang, Chewie did a tarzan impersonnation. I hear there's one in Indy 4 that people are complaining about. Funny isn't it. I guess what gets me are these reviews of Indy 4. They all have a paragraph or two dedicated to bashing Lucas over the prequels. Talk about holding a grudge. This is the guy who made the OT and invented Indy in the first place. And as far as the prequels, there were parts I genuinely enjoyed and yeah there were some things that made me roll my eyes. But, you know what makes it okay in my book? My son who adores Star Wars (prequels and all). That excitement he has for it like his old man did when he was a kid, that sense of wonder. I guess it's just me, but it seems some people out there have lost that sense of wonder. But, I guess it's easier to trash a movie or some man you never met. I guess if that's your priority in life.
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"flash gordon" and "the flash" are 2 different characters - flash gordon is a regular guy with incredible athletic abilities - the flash is a superhero that is capable of doing things at incredible speeds (like run super fast) - and as to the jedi powers question - all jedi in their prime have these "abilities" (in varying degrees depending on the jedi) - the reason we didnt see them displayed after episode 3 is because there were no more opurtunities - the jedi were wiped leaving only old obi wan, old yoda and luke in ot - and luke as a jedi never quite got to the level of obi-wan in his prime - this is a geek argument - but it makes sense if you think about it
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With a few changes it would be tolerable. Not as good as it could have been, but an ok launch pad. And fucking A I will say the "duel of the fates" is probably one of the best scenes in film history. It works on so many levels.
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May 19, 2008, 10:40 p.m. CST
the ot and prequels arent as different as so many think
by JimmyJoe RedSky
the reason everyone including me favors the ot more is because they set the stage - they are tough acts to follow - if you watch it objectively the ot has an equal number of shortcomings as the prequels - but fans are more forgiving because of its place in their development as movie goers - luke is pretty annoying and whiny in anh - like his dad is in tpm
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Some interesting info on the music. The chorus is singing a Welsh war poem, and the lyrics were translated into Sanskrit, since Lucas and John Williams thought it was appropriate that it be sung in an extinct language since SW takes place in the past. Plus, it was great to hear that music again during the Yoda-Emporer fight in the Senate chamber in ROTS-Absolute bad ass!
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May 19, 2008, 10:42 p.m. CST
YACK - TALKBACKER "BAH" RECALLED STOPPARD'S INVOLVEMENT
by BringingSexyBack
I don't think Stoppard did any work on Jar Jar or any of Jake Lloyd's lines. I think he took a deliberate vacation on TPM - not even Shakespeare could save that one.
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Is it bantha milk?
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very operatic and stagey - its called space-opera for a reason - and the mace death scene - same thing, pure melodramatic opera - so much drama and vital exposition happening in such a confined stagey setting - i love it - i like that the sun sets and the scene is darkened by the time anakin gets his new name
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He got pwned!
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Maybe that's why he's gone on to such mega stardom...
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I know SLJ wanted one, but please ...
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While I don't equate running around at blur speed, multiple times, with jumping 15 feet out of the carbonite pit, you clearly know more about this than me. But, still, why didn't Yoda or Sam the man Jackson, or any other Jedi Master, ever pull the moves that Obi-Wan managed in the opening scenes of Phantom in the following two?
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May 19, 2008, 10:51 p.m. CST
HOW DID DARTH VADER GET SO MUCH TALLER B/W OT AND PT?
by BringingSexyBack
Another flaw.
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At least Shia wasn't playing Anakin.
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And, I didn't mean to come across as a smartass just then, was just curious.
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That's why he's great. What did Anakin accomplish? He slaughtered younglings! YOUNGLINGS!!!
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May 19, 2008, 11:12 p.m. CST
"Ultimately they're kind of dumb, that's the only way to put it.
by blackmantis
This is what George thinks of the Star Wars films, and of you for watching them.
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in the 20 years between the PT and OT.
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First, I think he's great as Luke in the movies -- in fact, I think as an actor he showed the most growth across the 3 films. Going from a naive farm boy staring at the twin sons to the scene of him losing his temper in the climactic JEDI fight...to being a badass and defying the Emperor and tossing aside his lightsaber ("You've failed, your highness. I am Jedi! Like my father before me!")...to shedding a tear over old Anakin as he dies. Carrie Fisher was all right across the 3, and Ford was fine for the first 2 but I would agree that he did seem to be phoning it in for JEDI.<p>I had the chance to meet Hamill years ago for work reasons. And let me tell you, he was a total gentleman. We talked about all sorts of things, but what really struck me was how relaxed he was as being forever typecast as Luke Skywalker. He knew he would never top it...he knew that no matter what he did it from this point on, it would still be the ONE thing he would forever be known for...but at the same time he also was comfortable enough with that and giddy enough to realize "Fuck yeah! I'm Luke Skywalker, bitches! And best of all, like Marilyn Monroe or Elvis, people will always remember me and picture me in their heads while I was in my young prime. I'm young forever, baby! And I'm set for life too, so now I can do whatever I want." And he has -- he's done his thing and he didn't turn into yet another Hollywood asshole, which is an achievement in itself. He always treats fans nice and at least when I met him, he even carried around some photos that he could sign on the spot and give away since he knew people might recognize him.<p>In fact, from meeting him that day, I got a personally signed photo of him waving his lightsaber on the JEDI sail barge right behind me here on my shelf. So Hammill earns credit from me for simply being a solidly good guy...
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That's when he demonstrated the true Jedi ideal as we saw it in the PT. Cockiness and incompetence. Lucky R2 was there to save his ass.
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They all were. Except for the Emperor.
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New CGI shot in Raiders TV airings<br> <br>http://tinyurl.com/4ec8t5
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Luke rules.
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May 19, 2008, 11:27 p.m. CST
"Jeb Stuart & Frank Darabont & Jeff Nathanson drafts"
by BadWaldosRevenge
*cough* M. Night Shyamalan? Was his draft so execrable it's better not to mention his name? <p>I watched Indiana Jones films in a marathon - Temple of Doom (fair, almost terrible), The Last Crusade (fairly good, too silly towards the ending with a plot hole involving the surviving knight speaking modern English instead of Latin or Old English) and Raiders of the Lost Ark (an exciting, adventurous masterpiece), in that order. I know the actual chronological order is ToD, RotLA & TLC.<p>I'll keep in mind not to expect a great movie in Indy 4, because hype tend to disappoint -- too often, unfortunately. I love it when I come in with a low expectation only to be amazed. That's the magical bliss of movie-going experience.
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R2 never gets enough props. He goes through EVERY movie being the guy that's always there, he's always willing to strut his dome, he never backs down like wimp C3PO, and most of all he's the guy who doesn't get nearly enough credit for saving the day because he's the ONE guy that ALWAYS fixes things on the spot or freakin' opens ALL doors. Could anyone even GET into a room to be heroic without R2? Hell, no.<p>I think R2 wasn't even a robot. Maybe he got it all done because there really WAS a midget Jedi inside that can, piloting that shell the whole time!
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did we already talk about it? oh well i like it.<br> <br>http://tinyurl.com/4ec8t5
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it looks like the hd incarnation will have these tweaks. i wouldn't mind a little bit here and there. like the other shots of paintings. if you notice the old dvds(which i have) and the new edition(i believe) do not have them. lucas is trying to be careful i bet.
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... i thought they did (yoda and mace) in a few scenes - like mace falling 200 feet and landing softly on his feet - or yoda fighting like a coked up cartoon - both feats as impressive as running fast if you ask me - besides there werent a whole lot of scenes where running at blur speed was called for - i think your observation is valid, but a minor gripe - yackbacker... unfair attack on prowse - he really did have to perform in the suit - he did all the lines - he acted - his voice was dubbed by jones but prowse acted the part on set - and prowse did most of his swordplay - check your sources - lighten up - youre all sucking the fun outta these movies - i have to go watch them now to cleanse my minds palette of all this - all sw and indy - long night
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you know what... if he did cg that people would rip it apart even more - i personally love that effect, cheesy as it is - the guy doesnt just age, he seems to briefly become a monster (not the intended look maybe, but sool and effective considering the character) - cheese factor... thats the point though - its not a "hostel" movie
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BringingSexyBack, after my post about Hamill, I meant to add that I've heard Ewan McGregor is much the same way from people who have run into him with their kids. Supposedly if you're an older adult and ask him to sign a picture or whatever, he'll do it -- but he'll also give you a look as if to say, "Is this REALLY for you or is this gonna end up on eBay tomorrow?"<p>But I've heard that if you're a little KID and you run into him and point and go, "It's Obi-Wan!" that he will actually be EXCEPTIONALLY cool about it and he'll talk to little kids as if he really IS Obi Wan, so as to not spoil the illusion for them. So if that's true, I give McGregor alot of credit too for treating little kids that way. Hey, no reason to tell them about Santa Clause just yet!
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Since we're all bitching about things, someone explain this one to me. Maybe it's in the novelization or something, but WHY does Mace Windu even die in ROTS?<p>Seriously, in the Prequels the Jedi are jumping all over the place like hyperkinetic kangaroos and doing it over great distances and drops. In AOTC, you're telling me Anakin can jump out of a speedster and drop hundreds of feet and then grab onto a bounty hunters speeder with total precision and not even pull a muscle or have his arm yanked off...<p>...Yet Mace Windu, supposedly a complete and accomplished Jedi MASTER, can get pushed out a window and -- even with a hand cut off -- you're telling me he couldn't have done the same thing? For crying out loud, from the establishing shots in AOTC and ROTS, there's freakin' flying traffic going by (that he could have landed on or whatever) every few feet!<p>Samuel L. Jackson was wrong. He DID go out like a punk!
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I agree about how greatly his character growth arcing through the 3 films is pure hero journey stuff. Come to think of it, has ANYONE ever criticized his performances in the trilogy? Fisher in Jedi for being drug dazed (lesser in Empire), even immortal Indiana Ford people say he doesnt give a shit in Jedi, however Hammill would get an A+ for all three films, the youthful farmboy, the more wisdomy pilot, and finally the confident jedi in black. I think his Cloud City uniform is the coolest clothes he wore in all three movies. Luke really did bring balance to the force. He is THE ONE.
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Corvette Summer was awesome. <br><Br> That is all.
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Samuel Fuller's best movie
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mace was fried by palpatines lightning - thats what actually killed him - you didnt notice his violent convulsions and his skeleton glowing through his skin? - he was dead or dying long before he hit the ground
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Did anybody check the new RAIDERS DVD to see if its been changed there? Or did they only do this for the TV version? I really can't fathom why Spielberg would make this change, unless, of course, Lucas made him do it. I haven't seen it in motion, but those screen caps make it look a hell of a lot worse than the original matte painting. Sigh, and so it goes...
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they suck. live with it. it's funny some geeks are still debating this to no end. if you think they dont suck, the problem is you. yes, Y-O-U. you know shit about the fine art of cinema. case closed.
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Cant WAIT
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The article answered my question. Apparently, it WASN'T changed for the new DVD release (although it probably will be when they eventually release it on Blu-ray).
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blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghhh!
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...blaagh, blah.
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Stop ranking these steaming piles of craptastic suckageness FFS!
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I remember watching RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK for the first time and becoming aware of the fact that films were made. Prior to that I had no understanding of the process that brought films to life. It was a powerful moment that undoubtedly ignited my love for cinema and I remember it to this day. <p>The key moment that did it for me was when Indy came face to face with the cobra in the Well of the Souls. If you look closely you can barely make out the reflection of Ford in the glass that separated him from the snake. It's a famous gaff, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of you had a similar experience, but seeing that mistake forever shattered the fourth wall and made me aware of the fact that films did not just appear out of the ether.</p> <p>I'm sure Spielberg had a similar experience while growing up, and it too began his passion for film. I wish I could appeal to him on that level, let him know that by removing that particular mistake he has effectivly erased the very thing that created my love for cinema.</p> <p>I'm not saying that Spielberg "raped by childhood." Not at all. He did the exact opposite, in fact. He captured my imagination at a very young age and started me on the path to becoming a filmmaker. I just wish he would think before making changes to a film he made over 25 years ago (no matter how minor) and just let the thing stand on its own two feet, flaws and all. A few dated effects aren't going to change the fact that RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK is one of the best films ever made.</p>
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I remember watching RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK for the first time and becoming aware of the fact that films were made. Prior to that I had no understanding of the process that brought films to life. It was a powerful moment that undoubtedly ignited my love for cinema and I remember it to this day. <p>The key moment that did it for me was when Indy came face to face with the cobra in the Well of the Souls. If you look closely you can barely make out the reflection of Ford in the glass that separated him from the snake. It's a famous gaff, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of you had a similar experience, but seeing that mistake forever shattered the fourth wall and made me aware of the fact that films did not just appear out of the ether.</p> <p>I'm sure Spielberg had a similar experience while growing up, and it too began his passion for film. I wish I could appeal to him on that level, let him know that by removing that particular mistake he has effectively erased the very thing that created my love for cinema.</p> <p>I'm not saying that Spielberg "raped by childhood." Not at all. He did the exact opposite, in fact. He captured my imagination at a very young age and started me on the path to becoming a filmmaker. I just wish he would think before making changes to a film he made over 25 years ago (no matter how minor) and just let the thing stand on its own two feet, flaws and all. A few dated effects aren't going to change the fact that RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK is one of the best films ever made.</p>
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Sorry about the double post. Stupid computer...
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I've been holding off on picking up Raiders on DVD since I'm hoping it'll be released on Blu-Ray soon (I'd probably pick up TOD and TLC, too, but I don't think I'll be buying this Mutt bullshit), but if this shit is altered for the high-definition release, I'm going to be pissed.
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New CGI shot in Raiders TV airings<br> <br>http://tinyurl.com/4ec8t5
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Top Gear the other day and in his own words "The third one is OK, the other 2 erm.." <P>Not exactly a ringing endorsement. He knew they were shit
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May 20, 2008, 3:52 a.m. CST
Thank GOD for chud.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by standundermyumbrella
They tore this movie a new asshole!!!! And rightfully so, not like the AICN staff who seem to like the movie ONLY because they are somehow OBLIGED to!!!!!
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...CHUD fucking sucks.
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Some real insightful stuff. phew I'll bet he never goes back to chud again. Probably swore off well supported insightful reviews who don't tell him exactly what he wants to hear forever. Just like you.
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It isn't that the review is not well supported. It is. But it is also fundamentally dishonest. It reads like they already decided they were going to hate it and then found supporting evidence. <P>If they had gone in with an open mind, or perhaps cautiously optimistic, and then honestly looked at their feelings afterwards it would be different.
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It cant be well supported AND dishonest. If they went in expecting to dislike it, and the film supported that, then they aren't wrong. most of the problems they site are concerns I had with the film, and if the film is how they say it is then that sucks. And it sounds pretty damn accurate to me. The only x factor seems to be simply whether having a character named Indiana Jones jumping around is enough to excuse the flaws. I don't think that should be enough for anyone personally, thats people selling themselves short.
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80% on the tomatometer. God this must really piss off the people who were convinced this movie was going to be burned down to the ground.
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Their approach is fundamentally dishonest- <P>You don't find evidence to support a conclusion, you draw your conclusion from the evidence in front of you- if you do you are being intellectually dishonest. Furthermore, nothing ever made will stand up to that approach.<P>Personally, I don't know as I haven't seen it. I remain cautiously optimistic and don't trust either Harry's positive review or Chud's negative one. <P>BTW- Order for Star Wars is: <P>1)ESB- anyone who thinks otherwise is a cretin, <P>2)Star Wars- Nope I won't call it ANH either. <P>3)ROTJ- Yes, Ewoks do suck, but the final battle is magnificent. <P>4)TPM- dreadful with a good lightsaber battle <p>5)Sith. Complete crap but better than <p>6)AOTC- wretched affront to film making, not one redeeming feature.
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... I didn't mention M. Night Shyamalan's "draft" because it doesn't exist. He was never hired to write INDY 4. He never wrote a single word of an INDY 4 script. It's one of those pieces of bullshit fanboy lore that has taken on a life of its own, and it's absolutely 100% not true. Never happened.
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The only 2 SW movies with any truly good drama throughout the movie is ANH & ESB, and ROTJ sets the stage for all the flaws that pervade the PT. ROTJ has a great ending in the throne room which really saves the movie, and it still has Han, Luke and Leia, so we have someone to care about, but the seeds were planted as to where SW was going back in '83, as the Ewoks were created for the kiddies. ANH & ESB have truly great dramatic scenes that don't cater to kiddies. When Luke goes back to the farm and sees Owen/Beru's skeletons and he realizes his destiny, THAT is drama. When Luke looks at the Binary Sunset, that is movie magic. When Luke/Leia swing across the chasm in the death star with that great John Williams Score, that is movie magic. When Yoda lifts the X-Wing fighter on Dagobah, another great scene that the PT can't touch. When Han is frozen in Carbonite and the look on Leias face of horror, that is real drama. The ending to ESB when Luke, Leia and the droids looks out at the galaxy as to where Han is at, that gives me goosebumps everytime. Oh yeah, when Luke blows up the deathstar is the crowning moment of ANH where it got a standing ovation in 1977. ROTJ & the PT movies are all about wowing people and just don't have the combo of humor/drama that ANH & ESB possess, and THAT is the difference between those movies, and that is why the majority of SW fans who watch the movies for more then just mindless action & ships landing and taking off consider these the only really great SW movies.
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May 20, 2008, 6:30 a.m. CST
ROTJ is still brilliant compared to ANY of the prequels
by IndustryKiller!
There is definitely some weak sauce in there. Boba Fett's slapstick fall into the Sarlaac, Carrie Fishers weirdly sedated performance, Han Solo not being given enough to do, and of course Ewoks. It still gets way more right than wrong. Jabba's Palace is filled with almost as much wonder as the cantina (almost), Luke's awesome rescue of everyone, Yoda's touching death, the incredibly satisfying introduction of Palpatine, Luke and Vader's relationship, Luke and Leia's bittersweet convo about their mother, an epic space battle, one of the greatest and most pathos driven showdowns in the history of film. I'm sure I'm missing a few things. And let's not underrate the incredible character arc of Luke Skywalker and Mark Hammill's excellent performance. he's absolutely note perfect as the boy who became a man and is on the brink of his destiny. He's at once confident and incredibly scared and there isn't a moment of the film where he doesn't ring true. It's even more impressive when you chart the character film to film and how he changes right before your eyes. It drives me insane that people underestimate that as it's easily the finest performance of the trilogy. It also makes Christensens half human, one note, never goes anywhere portrayal of Anakin that much harder to swallow. And as for the Ewoks, hell at least Marquand shoots them with a sense of wonder and life and they actually have a place in the plot unlike Lucas' pointless shoehorning of the Wookies into Ep. 3, which stands to make the Ewok gaff stick out even more than it does to apologize for it.
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What, if anything discernable to someone who wasn't in the room, could it have been that made Lucas reject it?
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Can I have a black box?
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So the answer is no.
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Nothing in the prequels touches the final space battle nor the final confrontation between Luke/Vador/Palpatine.
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I see people on these boards claim that Sith is a better movie and I just don't know where they're coming from. Regardless of where you come down on the prequel trilogy, I just don't know how you can put any of those movies over any of the original. The Ewoks were a little weak, but they still managed to kill them off and create a sense of danger. There was no slapstick in the middle of a massive battle the way there was with Jar Jar in Phantom. Even the worst aspects of Jedi are superior to the prequels. <p> You are spot on Industrykiller about the character arc. I was just talking the other about how that is lost in today's cinema. Look at the Pirates movies and how we don't see any of them really change. Sure, they're situations change but as people they're really the same from the first film to the last. Elizabeth becomes more of a swashbuckler but this occurs off screen and is explained away with one line. It would have been more involving to watch her get her bearings and enter the world outside of the governor's mansion. With Luke we get to see him change from an inconsequential farmer boy to a self-assured Jedi.
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I think I'll be well-supported when I say you're a fucking asshole. What do you think? <p>By the way, a critic is SUPPOSED to cite examples to support their thesis. It's part of the fucking job description. Nothing special there.</p>
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He would certainly be helpful in the Indiana Jones shenanigans. he was with Transformers.
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there really is no getting around it. But to put it into context I saw TPM with my family and other families and there were children with us. The overriding comment from them was "Jar Jar sucks". When I was a kid, I never thought Ewoks sucked
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Just FYI
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You must have to be a complete waste of space to manage that one.
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Is that wonderful sense of weariness. A maturity that only comes from being through the fuckin' weeds and coming out the other side. You can see it on his shoulders in ever second of ROTJ, from his visit to Yoda to his intimate convo with Leia. A wisdom but also a longing. He wears that loss of innocence so well. I guess that's always what I expected Anakin to have. Rather than just going from one absurd tantrum to the next, I thought the years of fighting in a war, combined with a galaxy asunder, and personal failings would finally lead him to some poor irreparable decisions gradually. You know, like all good characters have. not some random choice in the middle of some room that makes it looks like he was spontaneously possessed by the devil....and no, Palpatine does not count as the devil.
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Anyone who thought the prequels (or their midicholrine 'mythogy') was good needs to be kicked in the nuts ... as soon as possible ... just saying. Oh, and one more thing... that red-head in the bustedtess add is hot ... just saying.
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I guess I should clarify myself, Jedi is better then the PT movies, but I feel there are parts to it that you can see Lucas's view of where SW was going, too much focus on Vader, the Ewoks geared toward kids, etc. I feel to this day Revenge of the Sith is the most OVERRATED SW movie of the 6, as the PT defenders cite this as brilliant movie making. ROTS is a collection of greatest hits plot points that Lucas couldn't fit in Episodes I & II, and throws them all in the last 20 minutes like a checklist: Anakin turns, check! Anakin slaugthers younglings, check! Order 66, check! Vader is built, check! Luke & Leia born, check! Force ghost talk, check! The End, check!
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for Indy 4 is 80% fresh. But let's all be honest--it gets 50% of that simply because Ford returned to play Indy. Less than 48 hours and I can see for myself.
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They move from family movies to kid movies. What makes me laugh about the, "they're just for kids," argument is that Sith is PG-13. If they were just for kids the third film wouldn't be so violent.
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There is no doubt that Hamil had the look of weariness and wisdom, and that it contributed immeasurably to his portrayal of Luke. <p> I remember at the time Empire came out, and how his looks had changed because of the car accident, people were debating that it would enhance his portrayal - the pretty boy looks were long gone. <p> It made the black attire he was wearing all the more effective. <p> Hayden was horribly miscast - not just in his talent, but his looks.<p> Lucas should have learned that with the experience of Hamil.
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I go to bed and this TB is almost dead, I wake up in the morning and the tree is full of presents. You guys were busy while the world was asleep.<p>Another problem with the prequels is that I don't feel the need to watch them ever again. As a father I'm obligated to watch them with my kid, but otherwise, I wouldn't even pop them in the player to be dazzled by the better scenes. The OT on the other hand, I watched it every year during the 80s and early 90s.<p>It was a missed opportunity plain and simple.<p>And I hate the way Lucas turned the Jedi into bumbling fools. All this mythos had been built up about them in the OT and we end up getting a group of smug jackasses who can't sense danger even when they're standing in the headlights.<p>Watching Palpatine instantly cut down two Jedi with some very weak moves while Mace stood there with his thumb up his arse made me want to go to the concession stand and buy a bucket of popcorn just so I could throw up in it.<p>Lucas didn't rape anyone but he sure as hell gave us the movie equivalent of a Chia Pet.
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a very good actor, IMO. And when George Lucas is writing your dialog, your actors HAVE to be extra-good if you want them to be anything more than two-dimensional cardboard cutouts. Hayden as Anakin? NICE TRY, LAO CHE!!
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The prequels, to me, are just unwatchable. The acting is that bad. And they were a giant missed opportunity. I mean, hell, the story should have written itself.
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1.Empire 2.Star Wars 3.Jedi 4.Sith 5.Phantom Menace 6.Attack of the Clones
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I get the sense that Lucas was trying to do something along the lines of a Shakespearean tragedy. The problem was casting a lead with zero charisma, and poor acting ability. I guess I'll also add that as far as Attack of the Clones goes, Lucas should've stuck with film, at least until digital camera technology was perfected (which it was by the time of Revenge of the Sith). There are quite a few shots in Clones that have that cheap digital camera look (like the scene where Annakin is standing outside on Naboo after having a bad dream). It looked like crap shot for the BBC, not a Star Wars film.
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Has your ear stopped dripping blood? <p> HOD - I totally agree about the treatment of the Jedi by Lucas. And the total ineptitude of the script and the reasons for Anakin's change. <p> I understand wanting to show the progression of evil , and when done right, with the right actor and script, it is breathtaking. <p>The greatest transformation of all time was Micheal Corleone.
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I watched TOD last night and I must have rewind "Nice try, Lao Che!" about a dozen times.<p>Another moment we forgot about was Willie asking Indy if he knew how to fly and Ford gives her that worried/hopeful look and replies, "No. Do you?"<p>TOD took me 3 hours to get through with all the damn rewinding.
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than the Star Wars prequels?
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Another glorious day int he corps!<p>For years I never understood why regulars posted all day long on TBs. And then I turned myself into a regular and I have seen the light.<p>Michael's transformation was awesome and Pacino was brilliant.
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Yes it has some silly crap like the two rat head guys who swim in beer and it stole from the Bible so heavily, the Jewish community should have gotten a screenwriting credit, but Val Kilmer as Madmardigan? Total badass.<p> Willow and Krull make for a great double feature.
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All hail the Glave
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No contradiction between Brody in Raiders and Crusade. Compare: "A few years ago I would have gone after it myself, i'm really rather envious." with "Does anybody here speak English? Or even ancient Greek? Water? No thank you sir, fish make love with it. Does anyone here understand a word i'm saying?" A serious character in Raiders. A buffoon in Crusade.
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Altimeter...check. Fuel...fuel...FUEL!<p> What's funny is Ford really does fly. Meanwhile, you get guys like Bruce Willis playing John McClane in Die Hard 4, and after establishing 20 yrs ago that McClane HATES to fly, he is now a helicopter pilot. Um, yeah.
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May 20, 2008, 8:23 a.m. CST
Don't forget, Lucas also made the Jedi virgins...
by Franklin T Marmoset
Well, that's the inference, anyway. Taken in as kids, not allowed relationships of any sort, all of them walking around with giant sticks up their asses - virgins.<p>It's possible, I suppose, that they're allowed to engage in casual fucking while away on missions or out at a Coruscant bar. Also, there may well be some kind of Jedi-only whorehouse in the temple that we never saw in the films. But since they're all so fucking uptight all the time, I have to assume no Jedi has been anywhere near any kind of space vagina.
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That's a pretty good synopsis of the things that were good about Jedi. I agree.<p> TKD, my ear is fine, doesn't hurt anymore although it did bleed a little when I slept last night. No biggie. Real men bleed for no reason. It's cool.
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Did anyone else have that game? I thought it was cool when I was a kid.
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Fuck The Patriot, I went with the BBC and another dose of Indy.<p>Anyway, still a pretty good film. Dopey as hell in places, but enjoyable enough. As long as this new Cystal Skull melarkey can match that one, I'll be pleased, I think.
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I always assumed in the few years between Raiders and Last Crusade he had developed Dementia.
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Mori's review and not Harry's is the one with the TB that we latched onto.<p>Die Hard got the same treatment that Aliens and Predator got. They took the source material, gave it to some snot nosed punks who probably weren't old enough to watch the originals in the theater and let them have at it.<p>Only someone who had watched Die Hard religiously for years and loved the characters should have been allowed anywhere near the script for DH4.<p>In the battle of the 80s heroes, Stallone won by a mile. That guy gets no credit as a writer or director.
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Aye tis another glorious day. I am multitasking away. I have a PC and laptop on my desk, so it allows me to get my work done and chat away at the same time. <p> Life is good!
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Abom, just will the bleeding to stop.<p> Use the farce!
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I only remember the part where you threw the glaive up to chip away at the blocks to get at The Beast. Played it non-stop though. The only 2600 game I was able to beat.
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Between losing most of his arm and getting hit with a full dose of lightning, I think it's fair to say he was pretty much dead before he hit the ground. However, considering he kicked Palp's ass before getting double teamed, I think it's fair to say he went out like a Jedi.
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Had to ask - will never get it if you don't try. Maybe I'll catch Mori in a drunken stupor and he'll actually give it to me ...
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I never equated Marcus with Indy in terms of adventuring. I don't think he even had the vaguest of clues as to what Indy was actually doing out there half the time until he joined him in TLC. I also think calling him a buffoon is overkill; the man, like Indy's dad, is obviously a bookworm and an academic. Neither he nor Henry Jones ever fully grasp the danger they are in half of the time even as Indy is trying his hardest to keep everyone alive. I think his comment about going after the ark was wishful thinking and, as he mentioned, envy.
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an underrated masterpiece.
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Either you are baiting me, or telling the truth, but just like when Roger Rabbit heard 'shave and a haircut...' and he could not resist adding 'two bits!' I must declare my; if not love, at least extreme like, for Howard the Duck!<p> Go Duckie!
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I caught the last crusade on Sunday as well. I was happy as a fucking delusional clam watching it. <p>Change your name to Walter BSB., and you have a shot.
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Howard the Duck figured prominently into a TB a couple weeks ago. I haven't seen it since 1988 so I can't remember if it's any good but a lot of guys on here said it still holds up.
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May 20, 2008, 9:52 a.m. CST
Two days to go and expectations are adjusted, jpt
by Franklin T Marmoset
I'm looking forward to it, but all I'm asking is that it be on a par with The Last Crusade. That's all. There are bound to be a few too many knowing little winks at the audience (I hate that shit), but I'm happy to let that slide as long we get some solid actioning and adventuring and whatnot.<p>Also, fuck me, Intolerable Cruelty is garbage. What in god's name were the Coens thinking?
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Prequel trilogy to Howard the duck- <P>Volume 1: Howard The Egg- all shot in beautifully rendered CGI from inside the egg. Eggciting climax is when howard burst through the shell. <P>Volume 2: Howard The chick- a young bird struggles. Will he sink or swim. All shot in beautifully rendered CGI. <P>Howard the Duckling. Howard is now on the verge of adulthood. All shot in Beautifully rendered CGI. <P>All of them fail to be engaging on every level, but Howard the Egg is the only one that gets the tone right.
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I did warn you- even the Coens fuck up occasionally.
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I have never seen it and always wanted to. It's looks pretty ludicrous, so it should be right up my street.<p>Is it out on DVD?
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Ladykillers is definitely one of their lesser films, but there's at least an enjoyable oddness about it that I like. And it's fucking bizarre seeing Tom Hanks playing such a weirdo. I'll take that over Intolerable Cruelty, which is just such a bland, asinine piece of crap. Clooney must have had some sort of blackmail material on them to get them involved.
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and when you're done with Howard the Duck, go rent Robert Stigwood's "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band." You'll want to stab your eyes out
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May 20, 2008, 10:08 a.m. CST
Not to go all Ethan Bug Nuts on you, but leave Howard alone!
by toadkillerdog
I was a big fan of the Steve Gerber comic, but especially of the black and white magazine. <p> The movie was very entertaining and stayed very true to the source material. <p> I still have no clue why Lucas decided to produce that particular movie though. <p> I can only imagine what the people at Marvel must have been thinking when they heard the news. 'Lucas wants to produce a movie with a Marvel character!' Stan Lee, drops to the floor 'By the holy not Brand Ecch! Spiderman finally gets to the big screen' 'Uh, Stan, it's not Spidey. 'Oh, my stars and garters, he wants to do a Surfer movie'. 'Uh, Stan, it aint the surfer'. 'Cap?' 'No'. 'FF?' 'Uh,uh'. 'DD?' 'Nope'. 'Thor?' 'Sorry' 'Iron Man with Tom Selleck?' 'Get real'. 'Man-thing part 2? 'Stan, he want to do Howard the Duck' 'What?' 'Howard the Duck'. 'What the fuck is Howard the Duck? Do we even own Howard the Duck? What the fuck? Your fucking with ol Stan right? Right?'
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Busy with a summer class right now, so since it's a slow week at work that's what I've been busy doing the last two days. Can't wait until I'm fucking finished with school. Fuck me.
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And toad, in order to go "Ethan Bug Nuts" on someone, the same post must be reposted no less then 6 times in the same thread within 24 hours. Preferably a long post.
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I am now complete.
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is relatively dead, then pounce on it?<p>I sense a disturbance in the force....
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Say, have you noticed the general lack of negativity around here recently?
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Ask him. I'm sure he'll do his dodge and weave. <p>Toad...what, over the last few days? There has to be some balance after the Rumsfeld thread...a cleansing if you will. Plus, it's... <p>FUCKING INDY WEEK!!!!!
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Whatchoo studyin'? <p> TKD It's almost summer. Iron Man kicked ass, Indy comes out this week, and we have new Batman and Hulk movies looming. Not much to bitch about. Hell, Asia has a new album. Between that and new Rambo, Rocky and Indy movies, you'd think it's the early 80s, not latter 00s. It's enough to make this geek pop a schlongaroony
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NICE TRY, LAO CHE!!!
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sorry to barge in guys, but I agree. . .I think the highest negativity I saw in the TBs was during the SW Vs. LOTR debates...guys like Cocoalopez, Rupee88, and believe it or not, a guy whose name was "Hard Core N-Word" (but he didnt use N-Word, he used the real racial slur) were pretty much declaring jihad on those that did not agree with them
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I'm also throwing in Hellboy II into the mix. I don't think I'll see the Hulk though....And it's also summer hunting season for infidels and shitheels....hot lead indeed.<p>Statistics is what I'm taking now. I'm sharp as a marble when it comes to stats...
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I haven't seen that in ages. And don't worry, they'll be tons of negativity with the Hobbit and Transformers 2 looming before us.
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Just wondering what the general consensus is. I put it on for my daughter (age 9) over the weekend, and she was underwhelmed. The story also seemed kinda thin to me. The effects are still cool, though nowadays they're not as mindblowing as they were in 1982. My daughter had trouble understanding that most of the people were "programs" and that Flynn was a "user" who got digitized into the gameworld, and that TRON was actually Alan's "program, designed to stop the Master Computer.
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occassionaly over the last few months, if you have it or any of the other channels..Also, I know it is not as goofy and campy as Krull, but anyone else a fan of Excalibur from the early 80's? Helen Mirren was pretty hot back then!
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I'd have gotten a 4.0 in grad school but for Stats--my weak area. <p> I may see Hellboy at the show. I didn't go see the first one; I rented it later and enjoyed it. I do realize that lots of people aren't wildly anticipating a new Hulk. I'm not either, but I'll probably end up seeing it. Oh, and Narnia too. Probably get my kid to that next week. Indy comes first. It must, no question about it. Less than 48 hours.
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and kind of along the same lines, I really enjoyed Dragonslayer, which featured Peter McNichol in the unlikely role of hero.
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I hated statistics in College!<p> Krullboyisback, I hope that we stay relatively free of the vitriol. I think Pillow is right though, the Don Rummy thread may have bled off a lot of pent up hatred. <p> But as sure as the big one is looming over California, you can bet another hate quake is coming!
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ago. Now that is a good movie! And yes, Helen was mmm-mmm good!<p>Unfortunately I do not have Starz. Though I've watched Conan a bunch of times over the last month.
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if I, well, er, no I wouldn't. Ever.
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both of 'em. I put on "Total Recall" in the background at home while I did some computer shit, and it was kinda boring. I like other Veerhoeven movies better. Robocop. Starship Troopers.
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I feel your pain. I just finished my first semester of PhD level theoretical stats and it was absolute hell. The professor used all sorts of statistical software packages that we needed to "teach ourselves how to use", he assigned no book, his lectures went all over the place, and the final was the hardest test I have ever taken in my life. .. .and I get one more semester with this guy in the fall!! God Bless required courses in grad school
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Though I did catch the bit where he throws his sword into the belly of the evil Wizard at the Ice Castle through the mirrors. I HAD to watch that part, for it's utter silliness.
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All Warciples are scholars of the teachings of Chang, vessels for the wisdom of Burt and Bruce, vehicles for the implementation of pencil jihad in a nonbelieving world. I want to screw the chick in the office next door. Just wanted to throw that out there.
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positive track Danny, go to the Green Lantern thread and proclaim that "this is the dumbest fucking idea for a movie. Who the fuck knows who Green Lantern is?" Messi will go bonkers.
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I think that would be fun. I can only imagine what amusing images the brother warciples would post. Plus, it would be easier scrolling long TBs for people by looking at little pictures on the left instead of just the names. Just a suggestion. THE DIAMOND, LAO! THE DEAL WAS FOR THE DIAMOND!
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I absolutely love Conan, but when Dino De Laurentiis chose to dumb down and "kiddify" Conan the Destroyer he killed the franchise. Oliver Stone and John Milius wanted to make Conan a multi-film franchise like Bond, but Dino killed that opportunity with Destroyer. The music in the original Conan is phenomenal, and if you want to get a great DVD, get the collectors edition that came out in 2000/2001. Tons of great extras and interviews, plus the most hilarious commentary I have ever heard: John Milius and Arnold, and I think the Governator was drunk off his ass when they recorded it!
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pencil = 1.0 GPA. <p>I have a GPA of 1,235....wait, here comes someone from the IT department. Hold on...<p>1,236.
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I know who Green Arrow and Lantern are, but I did post that I thought the idea of a B or C grade DC hero in jail with the villains of A grade heros seemed kinda silly. We'd all be waiting for a "marquee" hero to show up. Green Arrow? I mean, c'mon. NICE TRY, LAO CHE
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Time to FLAMING LEG KICK my way to the head of the line....
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Any movie that has Carl Orff's, Carmina Burana - and I think Excalibur was the first big movie to use it, is going to get my attention.<p> DGDB, keep the positive vibe going.
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it's amazing how much it is still used today. I am sure you have seen those Gatorade commercials with the music is in the background. . . and I agree when Arthur and the knights ride off for the last battle against Mordred and his minions, the music adds so much it is bad ass
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The first - and still only movie, that I have ever seen where the men in the audience screamed when Arnold flexed!<p> Damn good movie. And it was a dirty shame that they went the PG route afterwards.
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I wandered over there, and Messi compared some guy named Rosenbuam on smallville to Pacino's Michael Corleone, I just had to say something!<p>Krullboyisback, that scene in Excalibur sends chills down my spine because of Orff.
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commentary is when Milius and Arnold try to imitate each other, and Arnold says "and if you belive that (the impersonations), then you also believe there a dozens of Richard Simmons Jr.s walking around"!!! Hilarious
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In that case, I'll have to put the DVD on again tonight. He probably boned her.
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kicks Arnold and says "that's for making come back to Mars"!!!! That line is so bad it's good
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I'm stuck in stupid spreadsheet hell, so need to vent about this. <P>For a start- Quaid gets big changian ups for putting that thing up his nose to remove the bug- would you follow instructions if they were "push that pointy thing with the grabby claw up your nose until you hear a crunch"? I've put many a powdered substance up there, but solids that don't get you high are totally out of the question. <P>Secondly, Sharon Stone tries to seduce him to distract him from the bad guys, but Quaid's changian instincts are strong and he is aware of their presence. <P>Thirdly- if you pay attention- HE NEVER LEAVES FUCKING RECALL. <P>It's the only "It was all a dream" movie that doesn't tell you it was all a dream- you've got to make up your own mind. Fucking great. <P>Finally 3 BREASTED WOMAN.
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Blondes.
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I'm going to go and beat the fanboy into the ground again.
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and when she stabbed that one guy in the balls
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"I thought you had 6"
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The web of coincident is strong, but I always was of the opinion that total recall was taking from French new wave cinema with the ambiguous ending.
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A film is never worse for having a psychotic midget in it. <P>If she had no teeth she'd be perfect. *sigh* <P>Sorry,
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Basil Poledorius.<p> It was indeed a bad ass theme!
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The whole score kicks ass. The song you are referring to is the title sequence where Conan's dad is forging the swords (think the song is called the Riddle of Steel)...and the music where Thulsa Doom destroys the village in the beginning is incredible...the music when Conan's mom gets her head chopped off is good too, as it plays on Thulsa Doom's hypnotizing of her, the bam, head goes off. I agree with your theory. . .I think you readily see in John William's Star Wars score, Poledouris' score of Conan, and a lot of the music in Lord of the Rings
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Even I'm a bit appalled at my last comment. <P>Fucking work- at least the IT Nerd relented on the Quota Time. Of course I did have to nail both his hands to the table with 2 trusty #2 pencils and then staple his forhead until he fixed the computer using only his nose.
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You mean, a'la Alphaville, or Breathless?<p> Lemmy Caution is still an iconic New Wave character.
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I wish more women would greet me by cupping my Schwarzenegger in their hand.
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and was astounded as to how Carpenter-esque the score is. I can't believe I didn't notice it before. <P>Carpenter didn't do it did he?
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It is always a good day, when you smite a shitheel with the leaden death of the mighty No. 2!
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The holy trinity commandeth that all women, whether they be Sharon Stone hot babes or blonde midget whores, must cupeth thy package in greeting.
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Total recall borrowed in the sense that one could devise a multitude of opinions about the end. Like life there is no real end. Most french new wave had these ending where you're like, what will they do next??? I feel Basic Instinct had this also. She doesn't kill him, but she might later. Arnold might be normal construction worker in a dream, or a hero.
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and getthefuckoutta here Dannyboy. I like Carpenter's scores- they're frequently iconic, atmospheric and just fucking good. Look at how many of them are classic.
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do you know if the actress that played "Melina" in Total Recall was in anything else? I know I can check on IMDB, but just wondered if anyone knew off the top of their head
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I've had enough. I'm going home before I commit GBH on this computer. <P>See you tomorrow. Keep the faith.
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after the apt. shootout, without getting a single drop of blood on her then holds up his hands and shows tons of blood????
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<P>*Jarv shuffles out*
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Paul Verhoeven is one animated dude. The very first commentary track I ever listened to was Starship Troopers and I remember thinking that shit was bonkers and almost better than the movie and that set a benchmark few commentaries afterwards could achieve.<p>I was fired up for the two Stone TBs and then that Moore TB and I think I got out a year's worth of anger out at our neocon posters.
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"You've got a lot of nerve showing your face here."<p>"Look who's talking."
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Yes, most New Wave did indeed rely on that open ended ending. <p> But, I also think some of it was due in part to the lessor directors having no clue how to end the movie.
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do you think the best movie ever would have such shitty costumes. Like seriously dude, everyone in the future is gonna be wearing thrift store outfits that useta be gap cloths. Remember when he goes to Recall, you think they are gonna have Land's End catologes in the fututre like that?? fuck no, I hope not.
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Steel isn't strong, flesh is stronger.
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g-ride is so 2007
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Total Recall may or may not have aged well but there's no denying the first time you saw that in the theater, you weren't wondering how they did what they did with those effects.<p>"See you at the party Richter!" *tosses arms over the side*
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unfortunately died a year or two ago. . .I also liked his score to "The Hunt for Red October", especially the use of the male chorus singing the Russian National Anthem...I was actually in Russia last summer and heard that song in the Kremlin...spooky but cool at the same time
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That damn dyslexia!
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of Conan and the original release?
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Richter: I want that fucker dead!<p> Helm: I don't blame you, man. I wouldn't want a guy like Quaid porkin' my old lady.<p> Richter: You saying she likes it?<p> Helm: No, I'm sure she hated every minute of it.
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If there is, it could not possibly include more blood!
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unless it is the scornful flesh of a nonbeliever being perforated by a No. 2 pencil
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Just wondering if Thulsa Doom has more great lines...<p>Come to me my child...
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Is a bit longer than the theatrical release. There is a bit longer conversation parts between Conan and Subotai, and lastly, the princess actually helps Conan sneak back into the Mountain of Power at the end...after Conan kills Thulsa Doom, she basically prostrates herself to Conan as if he is a new "Thulsa Doom", but instead Conan rejects the subliminal offer, sets fire to the Mountain of Power, and leads her away and eventually back to King Osiric
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hypnotize/sway Conan, his lines about being his "father" and reason for living is great acting. . .he is also great during his discussion of how the infidel defilers will drown in "lakes of blood", "now they will know why they fear the night, now they will know why the fear the dark"
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when I saw it in theaters (18 years ago) and did think the effects were great. But by today's standards, they're not. There's at least three points in the movie where it's sadly obvious they used a fake plastic arnold head. The redsky backgrounds for mars (as seen through windows from interior shots) looks chintzy. Mars skies don't look THAT red. Nor does the soil. The biggest effect, arguably, was probably the retracting woman-head mask that Quade wore. But you could tell by watching that the moviemakers really thought this was a big deal scene. They have the lady (Quade in disguise) fake a malfunction by stuttering TWO WEEKS...TWO WEEKS...then twitching a lot. This lasts a LONG time. It all builds up to that one special effect, which in 1990 was a cool payoff, but it's not so much anymore. I'm not saying TR is a bad movie, it's just not my favorite AHNULD picture.
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not"realistic"especially, but that's not actually the point.