Cool News
The Greatest Adventure is what lies ahead after this 20 Questions with Peter Jackson & Guillermo Del Toro!!!
Hey folks, Harry here - It looks like PJ and GDT are pulling a 20 Questions bit - which is how PJ started it all - those many moons ago... Here's what I got in the email:
An Unexpected Party
Peter Jackson and Guillermo del Toro invite you to a live internet chat about The Hobbit.
Peter and Guillermo would love to answer your questions and hear your comments about our new adventure into Middle-Earth.
Please register now - to make sure you don't miss out on the Unexpected Party and get regular updates on the movies.
Weta are excited to be hosting this one-hour live online chat on our website WetaNZ.Com. Please check the start time for your time zone below:
Los Angeles (Pacific) Saturday 24 May 1 pm
New York (Eastern) Saturday 24 May 4 pm
London Saturday 24 May 9 pm
Paris, Berlin, Rome Saturday 24 May 10 pm
SydneySunday 25 May 6 am
Wellington, Auckland Sunday 25 May 8 am
See you at the Unexpected Party!
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no political mess in this talkback..right?
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How are you going to fill two movies without seeming like it was just done for cash?
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Jackson and Del Toro and pros and fans rolled into one.
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I meant, "...Toro ARE pros..."
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This makes it feel so real now, especially as I remember the first round all those years ago, and now - knowing what we know and how well it turned out - surely we can all get uber excited about the future....for sure!
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...BECAUSE I HAVE A LIFE! Now I must get back to my Miller Lite tall boy and watch American Idol. Wait, scratch the last part.
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ty so much for the info on this. what an event. I hope you have a follow-on article with some summaries.. .AND your opinion on the details revealed.
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round screens?
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Maybe this will put AICN back on the right track.
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You knew it was coming.
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And may I suggest Martin Freeman?
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what track record are you looking at? Blade 2 was a huge hit, Hellyboy made money, maybe not spiderman money but it made money and pan's was a huge hit for a foreign language movie, plus oscar buzz.
"how does he get to make the hobbit?" who else would been a more bankable director given the subject matter? other than say peter jackson? -
Arguing with little Gotham? You must be new here.
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What do you eat to get that fat, boys?ANSWER from Peter: Sheep's blood stuffed sheep loin.ANSWER from Guillermo: Chips with sour cream and lots of Al Pastor.ANSWER from Harry: A Brisket a day keeps the doctor away!
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I remember reading everyone bitching about how it's a stretch to fill 2 movies, etc. -- Within the first few posts of this one someone says it can be done easily. Now I remember why I signed up for a new account.
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Seriously! Make a stickam for this or use blogtv.com A live webcam. Talk to Tomgreen.com but please dont just make it text chatting.
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as all the Tolkienites attempt to join the party.
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Names, names!
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Has anyone got links pointing to the original 20 first questions that PJ was asked here on AICN back in the day?
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Muwahahahahaha
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Not some bullshit fanboy piece of 'fanfic' shite. There's the book...trim what you have to and tell us a charming kids story. You feel the need to wallet rape all these hopeless twerps out there who really gotta see some kind of fleshed out 'White Council' BS and lameass Gothy 'Necromancer' go ahead and make that second movie and I'll cheerfully not go to it but don't fuck with the Hobbit because of exploded egos.
Blather all you want but remember the Hobbit is about Elves and Dwarves and Goblins who break into song at the drop of a hat. In the Hobbit Rivendell is frikkin 'Fa la la lally down in the valley' not some nature retreat for a bunch of stuffed shirts. It's got talking spiders and animals and dumbass Trolls and a manipulative sarcastic Gandalf and Elves who get wasted at inopportune times. Oh yah...and about thirty seconds of a big ass battle. If you nimrods end up even thinking about cranking out 'The Battle of the Five Pelennors' someone should kick you in the ass.
So that's it...make 'The Hobbit' and if you feel the need to pander to that wanking crowd then go ahead and make "The Lord of the Rings; Episode Zero, "The Wankening" after you've made a real Hobbit movie.
Toodles! -
Jeremy Irons?
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surely not Martin Freeman?
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I can't wait to see this project unfold before our eyes. And not to change the subject, but I just read that the first teaser for THE MUMMY; TOMB OF THE DRAGON EMPEROR will be up on Friday.
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oh. now i feel silly.
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And adding unexpectet and uncalled for changes to the story? I bet Del Toro wont let you.
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and will it be called, 'The Hobbit 2 - Electric Bilboogaloo'? To clarify, they've already said the first movie will be called The Hobbit and will basically be The Hobbit adapted fully, i.e. the story doesn't stretch across two movies. My guess is the second movie is Gandalf-centric, maybe with a young Aragorn. Christopher Lee needs to be in it too, Saruman is head of the White Council who feature heavily in this period of Middle-earth history. By the time of LOTR the Council doesn't count for much because Saruman has become corrupt (though they don't realise how much until Saruman traps Gandalf and reveals he's working with Sauron in FOTR). Gandalf is trapped in Sauron's dungeons under Dol Guldur, that may feature in the second movie, this is when they discover Sauron has returned, but they drive him out and back to Mordor.
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come on, you owe us
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when do we get the 6th edition of The Hobbit's extended, extended, unrated director's cut on DVD.
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McAvoy is a good call pipergates, would fit well in the role. Simon Pegg maybe as well, he's quite short lol, might fit better in a more whimsical way if they go for a slightly lighter touch which I imagine they will on the first Hobbit movie. Will be interested to see where they go with the second movie as well, presumably something darker planned there. Very excited by both movies anyway, the original trilogy has held up very well for me :) Hopefully we will get some more solid info in the 20 questions :)
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Here's a casting idea for Peter and Guillermo-Brian Blessed as THorin Oakenshield. This guy would be spot-on perfect as the dwarven leader.
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You know, let us geeks make the Hobbit films. We're so smart. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that good.
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May 14, 2008 7:09:04 PM CDT
QUESTION 19 : Will The Hobbit 2 be as good as Kingdom of Heaven
by conqueror worm
Best Directors Cut since Fellowship Of The Ring EE.
No doubt. -
Will Samuel L. Jackson appear after the credits? ok, seriously, how many films has Sam been in to this point. I would guess it is more than any actor in history.
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I'm pleased he does stuff like this and Hellboy, but I hope he never stops making his own weird and wonderful little Spanish language films. Reading subtitles has never felt so good.
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I fear for the second movie that they are planning here. Up to that point, there is the books to fall back on. What the hell is the second one going to be about? I heard about doing it in the same time frame as hobbit, but exploring the background events that you dont see iin hobbit. Sorry but that kinda sounds like a snooze fest to me.
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Shhhhhhh. Don't give them that idea.
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that post was for the fucking win
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I think it's great that Jackson did such a fine, heartfelt job of the Rings trilogy but, damn, if this "companion movie" euphemism doesn't stick in my craw. I'm certainly a little sad to see PJ helping to turn Tolkien into a bona fide franchise with all the potential ugliness that that implies. How many more "companion movies" will be rationalized in the wake of the first's success? Sad.
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get him on your skinny diet, so he don't have a heart attack and keeps on making films. unless he becomes skinny, miserable and uncreative.
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to make decent action scenes now? how bout some daylight action???
do you feel good knowing that as a new zealander, im gonna have to hear about this movie every goddam day for the next 5 years???
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I have read that the idea of a second movie bridging the Hobbit and Fellowship was a miscommunication and that the Hobbit will take up both movies.
Darn it, thehobbitblog.com is saying that the 2nd movie will bridge the Hobbit with Fellowship. That news is dated from April 24th. I can swear the other article had a correction saying the two movies would focus only on the Hobbit book. The truth will out eventually, whatever is the case. -
Who will win this CGI Mocap battle
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May 14, 2008 7:39:12 PM CDT
Twelve Hobbit Models, seven are known, four leave on a quest
by ryanmurray
...THE ONE RING WILL BE REVEALED
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"GDT: You know, I traveled to New Zealand just a little while ago, and one of the main reasons for going was to sit down and talk about the second film. ‘The Hobbit’, the book, is really one self-contained film, so for the second movie we sat down and worked it out. When we did this we got really excited because this second film is not a ‘tag on’, it’s not ‘filler’, it’s an integral part of telling the story of those 50 years of history lost in the narrative. There will be certain things that we will see from the first movie but from a different point of view, but it will feel like a volume, in the 5 volumes of the entire story. It will not feel like a bridge, I’ve been hearing it called ‘a bridge film’, it’s not, it’s an integral chapter of the story, and I think we’re all on the same page."
So the only way I can reconcile this with the correction is if studio people changed their minds. Or if the correction was itself a mistake.
I don't know. -
May 14, 2008 7:52:01 PM CDT
Just because you CAN fill two movies doesn't mean you should.
by flim springfield
One story = one movie. Anything more is money-grabbing filler.
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God Damn that was funny.
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That will be my question. Meesa need a jobby job!
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May 14, 2008 7:59:32 PM CDT
1:85 or 2:35? that's the only question that matters
by lavatory love machine
Del Toro shots his movie on 1:85, but LOTR is 2:35
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Which i bet is true, but did he write any dialogue or story of those historical happenings? I'm guessing he only mentioned a chain of events, which would have to be filled out by some non-Tolkien entity. And that is shaky ground, who can pretend to write the holy hobbit words without being a hobbit? It is not enough to look like one, DelToro and Jackson!
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rape you fanboys!!!ya know each movie is gonna do 800mil.. fuck it go for 3!!!
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as bad as you did Return of the King?
Question #2: What parts of the Hobbit do you plan on changing because you think you're somehow better than Tolkien? -
if either of these movies has a lame fucking stampede like KING KONG >:[, ill cry. It worked in ROTK w/ 2 Oliphants and that's it.
on a good note, Im intrigued on what they could bring to the table for the second movie -
All he's gotta do is show up with some fancy letterhead and kiss your ass, and he gets a free pass and instant support. Lucas should have been doing this years ago, but he hates you guys too much and considers it beneath him.
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If you seriously, SERIOUSLY, don't think Peter Jackson is a better *film-maker* than Tolkien, then you have a point, otherwise you're just impotently spitting bile.
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May 14, 2008 8:45:11 PM CDT
I like how this invitation was written by Peter Jackson
by ingloriousjedi
not Del Toro. That there tells me these films are gonna be classics.
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Can be sent at a time so my question spawned 2 entries... Its "will there be filming in other locations than NZ even if only minor vista shoots (Canada has great vistas and Im sure some settings in England could serve as some minor shoots as well out of respect for the environment that so inspired Tolkein)... Oh and theres Mordor 2 in northern Alberta that could save a ton on CGI FX. :P.. sorry just had to throw that in there...
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Since there is not one female character in the Hobbit, will you be changing or adding any female characters to the movie. My guess is that you will make the elven king, Legolas' father to be an elven queen.
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Do you now wish that you did not destroy the original sets of Hobbiton and Rivendell?
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Will the overall tone be lighter than the LOTR? Closer to the original Hobbit? (But perhaps not childish?)
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Though the ring is the obvious link between the Hobbit and LOTR do you think it would take away from the adventure/movie and Bilbo's coming of age ( a central theme) to linger for long on the Ring or constantly remind the viewer that it is the THE RING OF POWER? I mean in the Hobbit the ring is more of a device for moving the story rather than any real focus.
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But I don't think I'll ask any questions. I'll just watch.
McAvoy as Bilbo sounds good to me. -
...this only shows the man will be giving us yet another class act.Question: One of the things in the book that imparts a childlike tone is the use of a narrator. Do you expect to keep him or no? If you do, will he be voiced by Sir Ian McKellen?Statement: Don't listen to these nabobs of nagativity about the second movie, go right ahead with it...great idea and I've always wanted to see that period fleshed out. I wants me some Necromancer!Statement Number Two: James McAvoy as Bilbo!
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...he said NAGativity. Lumme but when did I get so klever?Oh yeah, rock on PJGDT!
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Mr. Del Toro, PLEASE don't let Peter convince you to include a creepy Hobbit orgy in this film. Seriously, that was one of the MANY endings to ROTK we could have done without. Apparently the editor was asleep at the wheel...
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Hello morGoth. Hope all is well with you and everyone at club Angband. Former tailender--Bjarki56
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...I'm thinking Beorn will have a wife named Goldberry.
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Perhaps, morGoth, but don't you think they will want to have a female character that has something to do that is more central to the plot. I am still thinking that they will change the elven king. Hell, I can even picture them turning him into Galadrial-(they will explain it by saying for a time she spent living with some of the northern kindred.) She will at first be apprehensive about the dwarves and thus lock them up, but something will tell her not to hinder their escape though she could have.
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Ingeld indeed! Well met mellon and don't you have some good questions! Number two is painfully funny...though probably not to PJ. Iffen I'd known that was you, I'd have said Bjarki's wife will be Goldberry since I know the connexion now. I just don't know where any women folk would appear except for Laketown and I s'pose the Elf King's cavern. Heh, maybe PJ wil introduce us to some hairy Dwarf women! I'm just kidding PJ...you'd better not!The Club is doing splendid though a few technical sangs have popped up. Please drop by and have a pint and a chat.
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is some good old fashioned dwarf tossing.
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I dunno, that's a bit of a stretch for me. How would they later incorporate her character into the White Council since she would have to represent Lothlorien, yes? At any rate, yes, it should be more than just a background character ( Hmmm, any clue as to whether Thranduil was ever a member of the Council?). Then again, we may have to wait until the second movie when Aragorn is dating Liv, erm, I mean Arwen.
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Ok, sure--the man is 76 years old. HOWEVER, his performance as Bilbo was (to me) the most perfect casting in the FOTR film, and Holm really doesn't look much older now than he did when the original films were made. Moreover, Jackson & Co established beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bilbo had not aged "a day" due to the influence of the Ring (not to mention showing old Holm in a wig beneath the Misty Mountains in flashback). There's no reason why Holm couldn't be THE HOBBIT's Bilbo again. And with the incredibly makeup artists and digital technology the producers have at their disposal, why NOT Holm? In my mind (and now forever more when I read the books) Holm simply IS Bilbo.
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Good point about the council and Galadrial presence being needed. I also wonder if the orcs will be refered to as orcs or as goblins? And it will be odd to see the Trolls speaking as they barely seemed to be above animals in LOTR movies. One of the few things I did not like about PJ's vision was the look of the trolls, wargs and the flying mounts of the Nazgul. I hope the orcs that we see look more like the kind that were in Moria in the movie.
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Make one or more of the dwarves female. After all, they look just like male dwarves, so this slight, amusing subplot wouldn't really interfere with the original story.Just being facetious of course. I think the idea that there HAS to be a semi-prominent female character in a blockbuster of this sort is just silly. The movie will make boatloads of money regardless (on the back of the original films). There will be plenty of room for female characters in the second, non-canonical film anyway.
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Believe me, I love Ian Holm as Bilbo in the movie. I have always thought he was a great actor. I wish he could be thirty years younger for the part, but he can't. If I remember correctly (and morGoth will probably correct me) Bilbo was around the same age when he left on his adventure that Frodo was when he left on his. I think a younger actor is needed. morGoth mentioned James McAvoy--he was Mr. Tumnus in the Narnia TLWW. Interesting choice. I could see it. Is this a rumor or just casting out ideas for the cast?
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We need some more scenes like that. Just someone offering an intense look and saying...."SARUMAN." There weren't enough of those in the first trilogy.
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As long as they don't mess with The Hobbit, I'll be glad to see some of the lesser known stuff put on film, Hopefully they'll find a good story in there somewhere. I've only read the three rings books and The Hobbit, but I've heard of some cools stuff in the other writings of Tolkein, I also hear its long and boring most of the time, but some cool stuff nonetheless. Don't attack me if I heard wrong, but at some point in Rings history isn't there some battle that involves a whole slew of Balrogs? If they could work that in...
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I agree that it certainly does not have to have a female character. The closer to the novel, the better for me. I just think the way our culture is today, there will be some kind of pressure to include women into the story. I am just trying to figure out how they will do it.
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Because when Frodo was hanging off the cliff with one finger, I thought, "Wow, I've never seen a scenario like this ever before in all off film! Not even Tolkien could've thought this up. Our hero, actually HANGING FROM A CLIFF BY ONE SOLITARY FINGER!" Brilliant touch to add this. I really had no idea that Sam would come along and actually pull him to safety! PLEASE...a scene of Bilbo hanging from a cliff by his finger, for the love of CROM!
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Considering the out of tone changes begot upon us by Jackson and his ilk, and that from fully functioning storylines with dialog, what will cook up if they only have loose pieces of facts to go from? My only hope there is DelToro. He has shown a much better consistency of tone in his works.
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May 14, 2008 10:00:58 PM CDT
Question: How many times will an Orc get killed just before....
by behemoth
....he kills one of the good characters? You know, like in the first trilogy, when it happened like...oh, I don't know...about thirty times. Oh, and of course make it so the orc says something really diabolical just before we see the sword/arrow/spear come up through him from behind, because...you know...you don't get to see that in movies very often...I swear, all 50 times that happened in the LOTR trilogy, it got me every time. I was SO SHOCKED that the orc was killed just before killing one of the heroes.
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You're right about the female character business. If Jackson has anything to say about it, there WILL be a prominent female character. He doesn't like to break cinematic convention.As for Holm, Jackson already showed an older Bilbo in flashbakc and reinforced the idea with Gandalf telling him he hadn't aged "a day." It would be inconsistent and absurd to make THE HOBBIT's Bilbo film-Frodo's age.
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There's plenty of Hollywood-style crappy moments like that in Lotr. Much as i enjoyed what he created, a complete Middle Earth, damn he can be hacky. But now we have DelToro.
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Anyone who sees "racism" in LOTR must have a bit of racist in themselves. Those are your issues pal. Good luck with 'em. AND HARRY,THAT FUCKING OBNOXIOUS, INTRUSIVE HORROR AD HAS GOT TO GO
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So true about those cliches.
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That would be decent. Maybe it should be three seasons long.
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those are the only words I can muster for now.
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Q1: Will we hear Enya again during the slo-mo parts?
Q2: Will you use animatronics elves again?
Q3: For the battle sequences, will you instruct Del Toro in your awesome filming technique, which consists of having actors standing static facing each other, swords in hand, while you shake the camera wildly around then?
Q4: Will the bad guys be actually scary in this one?
Q5: How many major characters will be presumed dead, only to have them return later to the delight of the "shocked" and "unsuspecting" audience?
Q6: How many endings are you planning for the second movie?
Q7: Will Smaug be killed in the movie or in the EE? -
Seriously.
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misguided, overly expanded and trite "Love Story" shoved up its ass whilst dispensing with the more Tolkien-esque literary aspects, such as the songs, back stories, and european folklore; as you did with LOTR?
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...of these guys or their movies, I just gotta say that Peter and Guillermo are supreme class acts for doing this. Who else creates this much of an open dialogue with fans during the creative process?
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is when Bard leaps off a flaming building on to a rope that is slowly burning above him, while dodging the dragon's attack and then pulling the Black Arrow from a sheath and then firing it just as the rope goes ...
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How can we trust these people (well, not del Toro, it's not his fault) after they so throughly shat upon Return of the King?
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hulk trailer makes hulk look a lil better..i dont know why they didnt include all that on the first full length trailer debut..either they must be still working on fx or theses are the better shots of cg hulk
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Damn they were awesome. They gave us all something to be excited about for 3 years running. Sure, he made a lot of choices that frstrated us, but the movies were still fantastic presents. I am stoked that we can look forward to two more.
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1. Why did you make Frodo get discovered Nazgul while he's in fucking around with Faramir? Wasn't the whole fucking point of Frodo being able to go into Mordor that Sauron had no idea where he was?
2. Why didn't they all just fly straight into Mordor on the Eagles backs? Oh sorry.. that one is for Tolkien to answer
3. And you.. Del Toro... Why did you decide to work so hard at setting up such a great story and characters in Hellboy only to say "eh.. fuck it.. I don't know where this story is going.. lets have him fight a big monster"
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what a whiny bunch of nit picky babies a lot of you are. cunts.
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Anybody seen Richie?I keep coming back until someone REMEMBERS seeing Richie!
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For me, Holm's scenes were the very best of the trilogy. The Bilbo/Gandalf scenes were perfection. As others have already stated, Holm was shown in flashback with a darker wig, AND Gandalf was amazed that he hadn't "aged a day" upon seeing him again. Holm is a great actor and has given the definitive performance as Bilbo. I hope PT and BDT ask him and I hope he is willing and able to do it. To recast the role with a younger more "bankable" actor would be a travesty.
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We are not "cunts", "cunts" are guys who get pissed at the pub and whine about fucking soccer; and all the while their neglected wives are getting plowed by the Malawian delivery boy.
What WE are is a group of self absorbed movie fans, or if you will, a collection of assholes, fucktards and twats who live to give shit to any director, writer, or actor who gives us the slightest reason too. And yes, we are damned proud of it. -
Anyone else would fuck up the whole mess.
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May 15, 2008 12:26:44 AM CDT
I remember submitting a question all those years ago.
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:28:08 AM CDT
I also remember that survey they had fans do.
by stereotypical evil archer
These things really helped Lord of the Rings come closer to the books than intended!
Awesome to see them doing this kind of thing again. -
So he'll be in a super huge hit and we'll get all of the The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy sequels.
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May 15, 2008 12:39:27 AM CDT
We're going to see the Necromancer aka Sauron!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:40:17 AM CDT
We're going to see Saruman and Gandalf fight together!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:41:03 AM CDT
We're going to see Strider in full ranger glory!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:41:47 AM CDT
We're going to see Balin lose Moria to the Balrog!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:43:51 AM CDT
We're going to see Beorn turn into a massive bear!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:46:46 AM CDT
We're going to see a shitload of drunken Elves!
by stereotypical evil archer
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He looks close enough to Ian Holm and he can certainly play the character right. I like it. Kudos to whomever suggested him above.
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May 15, 2008 12:47:29 AM CDT
We're going to see a giant fucking dragon! SMAUG!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:48:27 AM CDT
MARTIN FREEMAN as Bilbo! He's the "Tim" for the job.
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:51:50 AM CDT
We're going to see a massive Dwarven Army!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:52:33 AM CDT
How will this fit into 2 movies? 4 Hour movies, that's how!
by stereotypical evil archer
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LOTR is the greatest filmaking achievement of the last 40 years. He out-berged Spielberg and truly has a place with Lean.
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May 15, 2008 12:54:59 AM CDT
This should help speed up HBO's A Song of Ice and Fire!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:58:09 AM CDT
A Game of Thrones will be amazing in 1080p.
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 12:59:11 AM CDT
We're going to see President Barack Obama watch the Hobbit!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 1:02:09 AM CDT
Epic fantasy will reach it's filmic zenith!
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 1:07:46 AM CDT
The 2nd movie will still be stuff that Tolkien wrote.
by stereotypical evil archer
Except it was mostly notes and stuff in the apendices. But it's there!
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May 15, 2008 1:09:59 AM CDT
It's hard being an Evil Archer these days. Too many guns.
by stereotypical evil archer
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May 15, 2008 1:28:37 AM CDT
but as much as I'd love to be a part of this
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
aint nuthin getting me up at 6am.
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the decision to make Hobbits that looked like they spent 3 movies wanting to jackhamer each other in the shitter and long slow mo tickle fights. I'd rather PJ have absolutely nothing to do with this movie but oh well.
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May 15, 2008 2:15:51 AM CDT
LOTR is the greatest filmaking achievement of the last 40 years?
by poeticwarriorii
Are you fucking shitting us all or do you believe that incredible load of shit?
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The guy practically IS a fucking Hobbit. Thus endeth the argument. make it happen Pete and Guillermo.
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Hey PJ will you [insert puerile ironic observation] ?
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WTF are you talking about? LOTR on a par with Lawrence of Arabia? Delusional.
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I have no questions : )
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...and he wasn't laughing...
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Do you really think that LOTR is better filmmaking than The Godfather, The Godfather Part II Apocalypse Now, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Star Wars, Jaws, Alien, Aliens, The Terminator, Terminator 2, Blade Runner, The Shining and 2001: A Space Odyssey?
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Damn You Michael Bay
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...will they hurry up and film Christopher Lee's part? He's not getting any younger. Oh, and also, if Bilbo's not going to be played by Ian Holm, are they going to reshoot the "facelift flashback" from FOTR?
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For me, that really fsked up Two Towers, and the bleakness of that battle... the last stand of the humans.
I know that in the original adaptation, Arwyn would have been with the heroes at Helms Deep (another thing which made no sense to me) and that THAT would have been the reason the Elves turned up.
But since they wisely dropped the accompanying Arwyn idea, WHY THE HELL DID THE ELVES TURN UP LIKE THE GOD-DAMNED AMERICAN CALVARY? -
The Two Towers was totally fucked. Do Peter Jackson and co really think they know how to tell the story better than Tolkien? What eogs. The supplemental material on TTT extended edition which has PJ and co explaining their decisions to alter the storyline are unintentionally hilarious. No wonder Christopher Tolkien hates the films.
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Also, why did the Elves help them at Helms Deep but not bother to help them out at Minas Tirith or the Black Gate? Stupid, stupid, stupid. Jackson had a lot of nice visuals but let's be honest folks, there are a lot of flwas in the LOTR movies.
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but flaws as well. Note to self - never type fast when you are irate.
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Don't forget Toby Jones and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Two great actors.
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But I think most are minor. Like holding the Gandalf / Witchking fight until the Extended Edition... Cutting Saruman from the theatrical release so that he's missing from the artistic credits, even though Sean Bean got in thanks to a flashback...
The Helms Deep one though... that REALLY pissed me off. You might as well have had the Millennium Falcon show up and blow the Orcs to fuck with some lazers. -
If Movie One is "The Hobbit", then births, deaths and marriages aside, not much drama occurs between III 2941 (death of Smaug, Necromancer driven from Dol Guldur, Battle of 5 armies) and III 3001 (Bilbo's party) ... at least according to the Appendices to LotR.
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Now it would have been COOL if the Falcon showed up. Seriously though, I agree aboutt he Witch King and Saruman being cut from ROTK, another 5 minutes wouldn't have harmed a 3 hour film. The Mouth of Sauron should have been in there too.
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... didn't notice your post. Cast Toby Jones and save millions on Special FX!
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... all these computerised sweeps and pans that only server to make you think thoughts like "this is cgi" and "this is animated" - not what I want to be thinking when watching a movie - whatever else about Transformers, the CGI was excellent coz they placed all the "cameras" naturally within the 3d world...
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Unfortunately, Mr. Jackson can't answer that question; only the moronic wankers themselves know why cynicism is their favorite lens through which to view the world. I do know this much: Childlike wonder and anticipation is far beyond and beneath them, and it's their loss.
Cheers everyone. -
an actor who greatly resembles his father?
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Dude, great minds think alike. The more people championing the cause of "Toby Jones for Bilbo" the better in my opinion.
James McAvoy isn't a bad suggestion either, but Toby Jones would be absolutely perfect.
And maybe Ernest Borgnine for Beorn. ;-) -
Start scouring those bear bars, Peter. Let's get somebody who really looks as though he might turn into a big hairy animal by moonlight.
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May 15, 2008 6:37:50 AM CDT
kwisatzhaderach, okay you got me with 2001
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
and I'l admit that the Godfathers and Bladerunner are better films. Hell, there are plenty of better films. I'm simply saying what he accomplished, filming what was considered unfilmable, was an amazing achievement. The passion put into those movies helped make them feel real to millions of people. I feel sorry for you man, you must be pretty bitter to hate arguably the most successful adaption of all time.
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Should be good reading.
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... he's probably hairy enough.
A very nuanced actor as well. -
Nice...
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submitted, because that last one to stallone wasn't a fucking waster or anything. He needs to cast Burt in it somewhere.
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“I was never into heroic fantasy. At all. I don’t like little guys and dragons, hairy feet, hobbits — I’ve never been into that at all. I don’t like sword and sorcery, I hate all that stuff.” I read this on another web site. If true it doesn't exactly instill me with confidence.
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He's quite the spry fellow, even given his age, and it's not like Bilbo Baggins is an action hero on the level of Riddick or The Transporter. With the subtle use of CGI and small standins, they could pull it off with no problem -- and it would sure as hell look more believable than Christopher Lee lightsaberin' as Count Dooku.
IAN HOLM FOR BILBO! -
This could be it, his big break on the internets!
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or even the king of Sparta
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Why don't we just go ahead and get it over with?1) Gandalf has rabidly-pierced overly-tattood sidekick since he ain't "kewl" enough by himself2) Beorn falls off a cliff, twice3) Mirkwood is replaced with a post-apocalyptic city with goth teens instead of spiders4) No Rivendell, period. "We felt it just wasn't relevent to what we consider the story should be"5) Gollum and Bilbo have a wire-fu match, winner takes the neckband (rings are *so* last century)6) Oh, and shot after shot after shot after fucking shot of Dwarf tossing. Lots of Dwarf tossing.Let the ass raping commence. That is all.Wait, I forgot one. Two words. Uwe. Boll. Now....that is all.
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..."tragically, Hackson's clumsy mise-en-scene, ill-considered colour correction, thematic misconceptions and serious CGI errors (grainy grey skin anybody?) undermine whatever limited grasp he has of the blah, blah, blah ..."
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funny. Ringy's off at a LARP convention- he had to make a new cardboard sword and it takes him a long time in Special Ed.
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He is 100% right. They NEED him to do this. The Dwarves need to be big guys because at Hobbit scale they need to, er, dwarf them. Hugo Weaving should return as Elrond, same goes for Cate Blanchett as Galadriel, Martin Csokas as Celeborn, Ian Mckellen as Gandalf, Christopher Lee as Saruman, Andy Serkis as Gollum. Aragorn is in his 20s so I guess they would cast a younger actor. He doesn't feature in The Hobbit but I'm sure there'll be a place for him in the second movie.
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So this will ready like every interview they ever do for the rest of their lives.
Wouldn't it be better to answer the 20 most UNIQUE questions? -
Is there anyone else more deserving of an honorary OSCAR at next years ceremony. If PJ or GDT are voting members of the academy, they ought to get his name in there. Not sure what the qualifications are, but please honor Mr. Lee while he is still here to appreciate it!!!!!!
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Again, we've already seen the older Bilbo in a wig in FOTR. It is ESTABLISHED that Bilbo is Holm in FOTR (as well as THE HOBBIT flashback). If we get a much younger actor to play Bilbo, the whole point of the Ring preserving its bearer is shot. PLUS, Holm is one of the best actors alive and is absolutely PERFECT for Bilbo. Anyone else would be second-rate. Don't tell me makeup and digital tricks can't de-age the man to the way he looked when first filming FOTR. I don't want someone who LOOKS like Holm to play Bilbo. I want HOLM to play Bilbo! Whatever the case, I'll be right pissed if they cast a kid like E. Wood for the role. Bilbo needs to look at LEAST middle-aged to be consistent with the films to date.
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its the academy's way of saying "hooray for career second placers" and "sorry that you're about to drop dead - here's a consolation statue."
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... especially for people who've done quality work (though perhaps not brilliant work) for decades.
There are quite a few Oscar awards, based on temporary fads and enthusiams, which haven't stood the test of time.
Most honorary Oscars seem to go to people whose career work, in retrospect, wasn't properly recognised but still stands up. -
Im going to have to go with Serkis. Hes a great actor in general. Im tired of seeing Doug Jones's long ass fingers. & even his friends hate his own voice. Atleast Serkis voiced the precious. Doug must have pooped his pants when he got permission to speak in Hellboy 2 & not be voice overed by the baddest mother fucker in town next to Sam Jackson.
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"Hey Frodo. Is that your boyfriend?" Sam "Im not his boyfriend. Im his gardner."
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Time to bail.
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If you had, you'd know that all of Professor Tolkien's works were explicitly created to out fascist closet cases (i.e., if you're keenly aware and bothered by the supposed "homosexuality" in LOTR, then--CONGRATULATIONS--you're [secretly] gay yourself). Yep, Tolkien outed another one...But, all (sort of) kidding aside, there is no master/servant relationship in THE HOBBIT of the sort that drives CERTAIN fans to distraction. Bilbo, in fact, never seemed the least bit sexual--hetero or otherwise. Ok, Bilbo never married, but Tolkien made him a "confirmed old bachelor" of the sort that wasn't suspicious--at least not in THAT way--back in the innocent, halcyon days of old.
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Firstly, I can't tell you just how excited I am now that The Hobbit movie is going ahead. Ever since FOTR I have been hoping this will come to pass and sure as hell its on its way! The talent and storytelling skill that is now involved with this project has my geek radar going freeking nuts!
My question to you guys is:
What are your main aims/hopes for the second film in terms of its content? There is obviously a substantial amount of story time in the 50 years between The Hobbit and FOTR, but how much material will be 'new' and how much will be sourced from other Tolkien works?
OK, so that's really 2, 2 and a half questions...
Cheers, and the very best of luck with The Hobbit. -
PJ: You prepared to kick DelToro out of the chair and take the reigns like Spielberg did w/ TobeHooper on Poltergeist? Cause I'm not feeling his passion, like I did yours when you were getting started.Anyone: Will Bilbo's house, inside & out, and the view from the front look ANY different than it did in LOTR? Asking because I'm a nit-picking GEEK.Anyone: Can Nick Frost be cast as Bombir?
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I utterly loved the FOTR film--warts and all. So much was done right (the look and feel of Middle Earth in general; McKellen and Holm's spot on performances; Bean's Boromir; Moria) that the problems (wizard battle; negative, Goth Queen Galadriel; wimpy, Everyman Frodo) seemed inconsequential.I REALLY liked TTT. There were some big missteps, though, and the campy typically Jacksonian writing/directorial device some others have mentioned (e.g., ORC (lifting weapon for the kill): No one's gonna save you now! [At that moment, a Rohirrim spear/Treebeard's foot impales/smooshes the hapless orc]) was annoying (and only got more so as the film trilogy continued). How many times can characters be saved at the last second throughout three movies? Other missteps: ignoble Faramir; Sam's execrable (though ironic) "by rights we shouldn't even be here" monologue; Gandalf the White's unfortunate void of personality after his return from Moria; over-bloated Helm's Deep with arbitrary presence of elves. TTT was beautiful (as with all the films) and awesome to watch, and Serkis' Gollum was utterly brilliant. But the directorial/screenplay warts, missteps and the unnecessary additions (e.g., Aragorn's mock-death) were becoming both time consuming and absurd. Despite its problems, though TTT was another success (if lesser than the original film).ROTK was a mixed bag, but ultimately was the failure of the three films. From suddenly shallow, villainous Gollum ridiculously framing Sam to bloated and gratuitous battle scenes (ruthless and apparently all powerful Legolas' brutal slaying of innumerable Oliphants comes to mind) to one-dimensional, stock villain Denethor to Shadowfax's unnecessary murder of him to badly bungling Saruman's death to the final blow: no Scouring of the Shire--which if you have read Shippey's excellent JRRT: AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY you'll understand is what elevates LOTR from grand fantasy to one of the greatest works of literature of all time. I think most of Jackson's problems have been due to his conventional idea of what can and can't be done on film, particularly with big budget films of this type. I know we owe him and his team for at least a couple of truly great films, and I understand the trilogy would have likely had greater problems had most directors/writers been involved instead of him, but I can't help looking back at two of those three films with an increasingly critical eye. And I hope Jackson trusts Del Toro--who is, I believe, the greater, more creative and less conventional director--enough to give him free reign to do things his way. And I hope Del Toro trusts Tolkien's writing genius more than Jackson did.
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BTW, I've been watching the Extended ROTK by bits and pieces recently. Weirdly, one of the scenes that works for me so well is Arwen's non-canonical and short-lived journey to the Gray Havens. Her vision of Aragorn and son is one of the most visually stunning things I think I've seen on film, and frankly I could look at Tyler's face all day. I love that whole sequence, in fact, though I am perplexed that the elves aren't speaking in Elvish! Oh, and I LOVED Eowyn's monologue about her dream (which to my mind was a great reference to the drowning of Numenor). I think the budding romance between Aragorn and Eowyn was overdone on Viggo's part (too many long, lusty stares), but MAN that Otto's Eowyn is good--ALWAYS--even when the script isn't.Concerning PJ's Legolas: It seems to me that Jackson is having Legolas display the nigh-deific powers I imagined he (and all Elves, for that matter) should have possessed when I was about 12 years old.
For the most part, movie Legolas' bad-assness works for me, though it gets a little extreme in ROTK. In retrospect, it would've been nice for them to get a better actor than ol' Orlando in the role, though he works well visually. For that matter, also in retrospect, I am beginning to be irritated by Gimli's movie, comic relief role. I honestly didn't mind in FOTR, but it became somewhat bothersome in TTT and extremely so in ROTK. Gimli's comic relief role should have LESSENED throughout the story, not increased.
Oh, and I don't like all the elves but Elrond and Arwen being blondes. They at times look like some sort of effete, 80s, fluff-metal band.
The death of Saruman was a mess. You could tell they really had to piece together some rough bits for it (and why the HELL would Legolas kill Grima for killing Saruman??? at LEAST somebody could've told him [too late] to stop as in the Scouring). Speaking of which, Gandalf is WAY too weak and unsure of himself in ROTK (and what's with his coughing fit--*this* is the pumped up version of the guy that killed the Balrog??). At the same time, he seems to lack compassion at times (as in dealing with Denethor or Saruman, whom he seems to want to keep alive only to pump him for information). You can almost believe Saruman's harsh words about him using those he purports to love.
Speaking of Denethor, It's a real shame they bungled him so badly. He is one of my favorite minor supporting characters. As usual, Jackson has fearsome trouble with shades of gray.
OTOH, the palantir bits wear very well on the second viewing. I like practically everything there except for Aragorn being electrocuted by it. Oh, and of course they should have had Aragorn reveal himself to Sauron purposefully to draw the eye away from Frodo.And I still wish deeply that Jackson had kept Smeagol ambivalent towards Frodo (as in TTT). Anyway, that's all the commentary I've got time for. Ah, it's nice to be off work... -
What did you mean when you said that you hate fantasy, dragons, and little people with hairy feet? Because the Hobbit is filled with that stuff. And do you hate Wizards and Magic the Peter Jackson says he does on the commentary to the Fellowship of the Ring DVD ?
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And one that I've wondered about since reading he said that a few weeks ago. I don't understand your last sentence, though. Are you stating that Jackson said he hated wizards and magic? Interesting.I know it's potentially troubling, but maybe disliking fantasy in general will give Del Toro a fresher, more creative take on the source material.
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I meant "And do you hate Wizards and Magic as Peter Jackson says he does on the commentary track to the FELLOWSHIP extended edition DVD?" Yes, Le Vicious Fishus, Jackson did say that. It's why he says he wanted the wizard fight to be so physical, also because he thought it was funny for two old men to be cracking eachother's bones. He also said he saw Gandalf as being as evil and manipulative as Saruman (on the Two Towers extended edition commentary).
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that was hillarious... but honestly jackson... will McKellen be on the side lines suggesting to the actor playing Bilbo that he needs to gently touch the Dwarves and have tickle fights with them. Oh Smaug... Oh Smauggy Smaug Smaug. (Smaug) I love it when you are so sensitive Mr. Bilbo. (Bilbo) Just trying to be gay viewer sensitvie... lets tickle!
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that was hillarious... but honestly jackson... will McKellen be on the side lines suggesting to the actor playing Bilbo that he needs to gently touch the Dwarves and have tickle fights with them. Oh Smaug... Oh Smauggy Smaug Smaug. (Smaug) I love it when you are so sensitive Mr. Bilbo. (Bilbo) Just trying to be gay viewer sensitvie... lets tickle!
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As far as one can glean the story runs this way:
The original plan was for two movies. There are interviews with Jackson in which he outlines the condensed plot.
Check 'em out. Tolkien purists would have rioted at the excisions and compressions.
Thanks to Bob Shaye's grandiosity, Jackson was offered 3 movies, but was given very little time to come up with a dramatically shaped middle movie. Some weak script decisions occurred during the accelerated development of TTT.
On top of that, the fate of the second and third movies hinged on the success of LotR. If the first movie did poorly, there would be tiny FX/ post production budgets for the second and third.
That tends to explain why so many popcorn elements were inserted. Mass appeal was a commercial necessity to recoup the huge investment required for art direction authenticity. So we have "comic Gimli", "skateboi Legolas" etc. The marathon shoot went forward on this theory. They didn't know if it was safe to reduce the popcorn level because there would be no audience feedback until Dec. 2001
Even though the movies were made, effectively for half-price at NZ prices, with a high proportion of inexperienced crew, and relatively inexpensive actors -including some brilliant choices like Bernard Hill, Billy Boyd, Miranda Otto, McKellan, Lee and Holm - it was never an option to make a movie which was totally loyal to the earnest tone of the novel. The question was, what compromises could they live with.
During 2003, the massive increase in CGI shots apparently turned the process into a death march and an editing epic which might explain some of the disjointed quality of RotK. The CGI ranges from brilliant to dodgy (eg Trolls enter the gate at Minas Tirith)
So yeah, Le Vicious, there were some disappointing decisions. I guess Jackson, Walsh and Boyens wince through some of the scenes you mentioned.
On the other hand, they somehow pulled off the impossible. Who could have imagined how the brilliant the supposedly unfilmable elements (Gollum, the huge armies, orcs and trolls) would turn out.
It's the best Lord of the Rings film we'll see in our lifetime.
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Curse you, fingers.
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I'm grateful for the films, though I do know some of the most egregious errors come from Jackson's proclivities (e.g., sadistic, brutal animal deaths) rather than a tight timeline. Also, I think Jackson was wrongheaded about a good number of decisions that were purely made out of artistic stubbornness and, frankly, dumbing down the source material for his audience. For instance, the exclusion of the Scouring was an explicit Jackson choice, as he thought it would be too anti-climactic (as if the pace of the multiple ROTK "endings" weren't already anticlimactic due to Jackson's plodding, directorial pace during the last quarter of that film). In fact, a lot of the big choices he made were made because he didn't want to break so-called film convention. These kinds of choices were what disappointed me the most and were made--I believe--chiefly for financial rather than artistic reasons. A shame.I know if Jackson had had his way, the script would've been MUCH less canonical than it was, and I credit many cast members for constantly challenging the script with Tolkien's on words. All that stated, Jackson & Co. did what I believed was nigh unto impossible: successfully presented the look and feel of Tolkien's Middle Earth on the big screen. And I agree that it's likely the best LOTR we'll see in our lifetimes.
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tricksy fingers indeed...
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I asked about Del Toro hating fantasy, dragons, little guys with hairy feet, and sword and sorcery. I also submitted a question as to whether he agreed with Jackson's take on Gandalf as a manipulator as bad as Saruman. We'll see what happens.
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No, Gandalf was in the pits of Dol Guldor years before the Hobbit. That was where he got the key to Erebor. During the Hobbit was when they drove Sauron from Mirkwood back to Mordor.
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I always assumed the removal of the scouring of the shire was to demonstrate the dislocation Tolkien spoke of when returning to green and pleasant England after the war experiences where he lost so many friends...that plus you'd have to tack on about another hour to the film that had already hit about fifteen emotional climaxes. In some ways you get the impression from the trilogy that the writers wanted more to represent some of Tolkien's personal concerns rather than the direct concerns of the books.
But of course, Jackson did rightly claim that writing and making the films was like laying the tracks down in front of the moving train. An epic scale movie usually finishes people off in the best of terms, I imagine making it on the hoof so much was always going to run into some serious flaws. Having met a number of the SFX people who worked on the trilogy I can safely say none of them were entirely happy with some of the decisions as they wanted perfection but had little to no time, and deadlines that frankly would have scared a low budget indie movie. I can only hope that the pre-planning pre-production on the Hobbit and Hobbit-to-Trilogy movie will give them chance to try out some of the weaker options and abandon them before momentum gets ahead of them.
And merely from the brief scenes in Pan's Labyrinth, I'd say it's fairly obvious Del Toro can stage a bloody but comprehendable battle in a style that doesn't fall into Avid slo-mo. Jackson did some epic scope scenes beautifully, he worked like he was trying to bring some of the best Tolkien fantasy art-work to life, but his in the thick of it fighting just, as many have pointed out, smacked of a director overwhelmed, filming too many random shots and hoping it would cut together nice in the edit. -
I also get the impression that Jackson got into a weird mindset of trying to be a great adaptor of literature and a great film director. Very few great films come from accurate adaptations because the beats and pace of film, accompanied by real-time dialogue and the emotion of music and silence is so different to reading great prose on a page. But he seemed to swing too often from trying to make an adaptation that was close enough and worrying that his movies wouldn't stand the test of being cinematically acceptable to non-readers of the book. His comments that the Extended Editions were inferior to the cinema editions because they ruin the pace of the films pretty much showed the conflict there.
I'd hope Del Toro wouldn't fall into that and would just have the guts to do the films he wants. -
I get the feeling Gandalf should be a manipulator. I'm not remotely an expert on the books, so tell me to shut up, but as characters, I kind of get that the wizards are trying to push events one way or the other and the 'means justifies the end' mentality comes across. Even if it does cause Gandalf more concern than Saruman.
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Almost as talky there as the Two Towers exposition scenes...Anyway, votes for the Hobbit film done in Spanish. I'm sure it'd be better.
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It's true that new Point Break movie might steal a little of the thunder.
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I mean its not like anyone liked the original trilogy. ... and no one likes the book The Hobbit. so why are they bothering? oh hang on....I forgot dannyglover.....you're a moron.
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So I'm sure he'll do an excellent job, if not a better job than PJ. That said, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER (save a cynical money grab) for making 2 movies of the HOBBIT. One 2 hour 30 minute movie would be more than enough. Maybe a 3 hour. But two movies? Cmon now.
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Thats when the full mystery of why the fuck anyone liked that awful and unintentionally hilarious movie to begin with will be revealed once and for all!
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Why the fuck did he remake KING KONG into a 15 hour long epic p.o.s.? Why not a good solid 2 hour movie? There is a good solid 2 hour movie hiding within the copious folds of hubris-fat PJ psychically transferred from his body to the film.
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How did you get to be so awesome? How come Pan's Labyrinth is so awesome? Is your middle name awesome? Also, did you feel weird hanging out with Eli Roth when he did that sycophantic interview with Takashii Miike? You looked a little uncomfortable.
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Reference an interview he did on April 28:MTV: Just two years ago, you were quoted as saying, "I was never into heroic fantasy." Did your views change? Del Toro: I wasn't. I completely gravitated towards horror. For whatever reason, I never hooked into sword and sorcery. I really rediscovered fantasy through my love of filmmakers as a filmmaker. Something kind of popped and jelled. I now can empathize with one side of the fantasy genre without ever wandering into lubricated musclemen with giant swords. "The Hobbit" occupies a particular seat in fantasy that is irreplaceable. They can dredge up old cadavers in my closet. I'm not running for president. I'm a f---ing filmmaker! I'm just trying to make the movie I want to.Amazing how history repeats itself…back when harry first started breaking LotR stories, it was the same thing only different Talkback posters. Many were just so worried at every little syllable that popped out of PJ’s mouth that contradicted that person’s perception of their personally perfect LotR (more p’s please). Now here we go with GDT and folks have already written The Hobbit movies off because, OH NO! GASP!!, GDT HATES Hobbits and hairy feet! Would that YOUR lives were viewed under the microscope of fandom and you were never allowed to change your personal taste over time.Is there really any comparison between Conan the Barbarian and The Hobbit? Not hardly, other than some folks insistence on shoehorning both into the nebulous realm of “fantasy” literature. At any rate, Pan’s Labyrinth proved he can certainly direct a fantasy movie so don’t get hung up on something he said in the past. And remember, even if you loath Peter Jackson, you must admit that he, like GDT, knows the difference between a movie and a book.
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But who in the Point Break reboot will get to say in full Bill and Ted Cali dude glory, 'I! Am! An! Yef! Bee! Eye! Agent!'? Just a travesty without that line...
I suspect the second film, if it brings back many of the original actors for Aragorn etc will actually do a lot more business than the Hobbit. But, yes, seriously the idea of the film industry making films for profit is pretty revolting. But, hey, Del Toro never makes a Euro off his acclaimed films so it might be safe as art. -
Manipulators for a good cause. And yes, I do know that Gandalf came waaay before Obi Wan so please don't bother telling me the obvious.
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May 15, 2008 4:25:41 PM CDT
Pan's Labyrinth = Psychological Horror Fantasy Historical Drama
by laserpants
One of a kind! And a work of sheer genius!
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...heh, perhaps you are the last person on the planet who doesn't know that movie two is to be a bridge movie (of sorts...NOONE knows yet including GDTPJ). The Hobbit will not be broken into two movies, OK?
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But didn't Obi-Wan basically straight up lie to Luke to get him on board for the universe saving mission? He doesn't spill the beans on the whole thang until ROTJ! "But what I told you was true... from a certain point of view." That sounds like manipulation to me!
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It's pretty dull when all the planning is done by evil and good, to quote space balls, is dumb. I have no idea if it's in keeping with the books wizardry but I always thought the good guys should be scheming too. The idea being that the wizards are ancient and long living and far seeing and with motives set in the long term and almost riddles to others.
Pan's Labyrinth is the benchmark for Del Toro to live up to. Of course I'm into sure how crackling the dialogue would have been in English. But I think it's a shame Del Toro will really have to scale back on the in your face fantasy darkness without a hard rating to keep everything family friendly. I'm sure he can manage terror and fantasy and blood-letting and humour without the harder edged adult content but it'll be a step away from Pan's. -
All hyperbole aside, I think that there are probably a WHOLE LOT of other people on earth who aren't even aware that a Hobbit movie is in the offing, actually.
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...I'd say millions of people are excited over The Hobbit+ movies. S'matter, not to your personal taste? Quick! Call God and have him strike down GDTPJ before this thing takes off!
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So its gonna be completely new material? I dunno... sounds kinda... money-grabbish. Not that I'm against that per-se if its cool. I mean theres all sorts of stories that can be told in Middle Earth. Like, Brokeback Hobbits! The true story of Frodo and his Sam as they froliced across hill and dale, mountain and riverstream, laughing, touching, loving... THE LOVE THAT DARE NOT SPEAKETH ITS NAME!!!
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He had to manipulate. That was my point.
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I think that the manipulation is necessary, especially in Star Wars when you change plots later on, ahem, but seriously, I think the point is even Gandalf feels like he's doing the right thing but he has the moral decency to at least feel a little shitty about doing it.
I just think these films will be interesting to see if they can stand alone, be great films even for the one or two people who never saw the Trilogy, or whether it really is a case of turning a trilogy into a Quintology (whetever the word is.) -
I never said I didn't like LOTR or the Hobbit. I just think one movie is enough. I think the bridge movie is unnecessary.
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...now we take PJ's effort for granted. Remember "He'll never be able to make Hobbits look smaller than regular people!"? Yeah, LotR was a complete and utter failure in every way. Surprising, really, how he managed to convey a rather lengthy and complex story so that even the Joe Six Packs got it and loved it. Imagine that, rednecks appreciating something other than football and grunting without having a gun put to their head to make 'em…I s'pose that was an unfortunate byproduct of "dumbing down" the story. Eesh, what a revolting concept: Tolkien for the masses...tch. What a world what a world. Yes, completely failed in every way. Hmmm, and didn't he manage to win over legions of ardent Tolkien fans too? Failure, failure and more failure.
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...now it's your turn to relax {[:^)
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I think it's pretty obvious they're all being quite cagy about deciding whether this will be a Hobbit movie and a full on prequel to the Trilogy movie. Which I basically assume is because they haven't written a damn word yet. Personally I thought reading the Hobbit and then the LOTR appendecies added a lot to the main LOTR story, combining it all together, but I personally think, in film terms, they really would be better making a Hobbit film standalone, maybe just a vague hint of the ring as a central plot point, but a stand alone. Then the 'bridge' movie would be more a trilogy fan 'take it or leave it'. But frankly, in the end, this will all come down to the studios marketing decisions as much as the writers.
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Well, when you say: "S'matter, not to your personal taste? Quick! Call God and have him strike down GDTPJ before this thing takes off!"
It leads me to suspect that you have lost all perspective. I am not a hater of LOTR. I like it lots! -
...from the same MTV (I know, I know) interview:MTV: How do you view the transition period of the second film within the context of the larger "legendarium"?Del Toro: [The intervening years between "The Hobbit" and "LOTR"] is the transition from the golden years to the rise of Sauron. It's essentially the beginning of civil war and uprisings. It's a very interesting time.MTV: How much of that film, then, will be based on Tolkien's writings?Del Toro: We're going to start with "The Hobbit," in the writing process. We'll see if we can fully contain it in one movie, which I think is perfectly possible. We'll take it from there. We just outlined what we want out of [the second film]. We outlined what we expect to tell. It's just plans and ideas right now.
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...that comment was directed at Dannyglubbers_pudblud in jest. I'm not trying to pick a fight. No affront intended...pax and all that.
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...I gave a smiley morGoth emoticon and everything...snif.
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Could really be good if they answer some hard questions. I didn't like everything PJ did on the trilogy, but I originally thought it'd be a mess to have a totally different team on board for the Hobbit, but I really think a new director, with his own slant could be the saving grace here. Obviously the writing team will give it a sense of continuity but just a different visual slant, even some editing variety could make it work.
My personal preference would be that the Hobbit movie looks and feels much brighter and innocent and removed enough that you could have younger kids watch it and be as enthralled as they were with the book without having to wade into the more adult fantasy world yet. Then the second film would gradually look and feel more and more like FOTR, until the last scenes, with the re-introduction of Frodo and Sam, blissfully unaware, would be a good jumping off point.
Still, what do I know?... -
That's the way Tolkien wrote him. He awakened Goodness, hope, nobility, strength,in people, after a true Manipulator had dulled it. In the book, this is how he helped King Theoden. He awakened him to his True Good, Brave Self. He didn't trick him, or "manipulate" him, just helped remove his feelings of despair that prevented him from acting for his own good and the good of all his people. And it's this that Jackson, in the extended DVD commentaries, chose to see as a cynical manipulation, and where he chose to add "depth" to the character of wormtongue, trying to make us all feel sorry for him and his unrequited love for Eowyn (something NOT in the books.)
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would have absolutely been too anticlimactic. Maybe if they had shown just a snippet of it, but... I feel like it was better off not being in the story. Sauruman and wormtongue living in Frodo's house? It sounds like a 70's sitcom.
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I won't argue with you ringwearer as I'm only a casual reader of the books. I enjoy them and re-read them every so often but I won't claim to be expert in any sense. Still, I always got some impression, even from the Hobbit, that Gandalf was the sort, much like many wizards, who turned up to set events off in some far off plan that only they could see and chose not to reveal. Perhaps this is cynical to some extent but it was a layer of moral intrigue that I liked. But maybe I just wanted to read that in because over simple characters seem strange sometimes.
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I could argue that all healing and intervention is a form of manipulation but that could just be semantics.
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This week, who gets to bring a date back to Bag End to bag an end...and who plugged the hobbit hole...
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That line could have been cut a good few times too. Silences can be golden in film. Especially when Orlando Bloom is involved. Seriously, you think the audience had forgotten there was a big eye involved.
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There is some truly great dialogue in the trilogy, and some brave acting to actually such clunky stuff and make it sound genuine...but there was some repetition that was really grating. The films were packed in as it were and it didn't need endless catch-up comments. Just a few moments of silence as the characters stare into the distance would have said a lot more. Gandalf and Pippin watching and waiting for battle is more poignant than Orlando murmuring about the East again.
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And do an army of Lysterine people fly around saving the day in your wet dreams??????
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hasn't upset anyone for a good fifteen minutes. Or maybe there's something really good on.
Oh fuck, it's 'The Happening'. Everyone is dead. Everyone is DEAD. -
"The fight has just begun..."
Aragorn - "No it bloody hasn't. We've just finished."
Gandalf - "Sauron will strike hard at the heart of middle earth."
Aragorn - "Gandalf you're a real fucking killjoy for an old queen..." -
From the 1st Edition AD&D Monster Manual (illustration by David Trampier)
http://tinyurl.com/4smvzy
OR (remove AICN inserted spaces
http://diterlizzi.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/dat.jpg
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Oh yes, I remember PJ's original answers to queries about LOTR - and the 'promises' he made. Two things stick out:Jackson assured us that he hated jokes in fantasy movies. He said he couldn't stand it when characters 'winked' at the audience as if to say, "we know it's only fantasy - and we aren't really taking this seriously." Jackson assured us that there would be no such stupidity in his adptation of LOTR.......Cue jokes about dwarf-tossing, Gimli's height - and Gimli generally being portrayed as a prat-falling fool. Most offensive (and damaging) was when Gimli was used to 'lighten the mood' in the Battle of Helm's Deep. 'Would you like me to get you a box?' was one of the inane comments made in his regard - during moments that were supposed to be full of tension and fear. Completely undermined the build-up, and indeed, the battle itself. Thanks for sticking to your guns there, PJ.Jackson also assured us that he would steer well clear of Hollywood-style sentimentality....and then stuck the most cringe-inducing, schmaltzy, Judy-Garland ending on ROTK - a level of vomit-inducing sentimentality that made 'Lassie Comes Home' look like 'Taxi Driver.' And I haven't even mentioned that slo-mo scene of the Fellowship at Frodo's bedside that is shot like homoerotic porn.And beyond that, I remember PJ promising that he would cast the right people in the right roles. So how does he explain thte presence of Orlando Bloom, whose somnolent blandness was spoiling entire scenes even back then....?
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Umm. That's your favourite depiction? I thought some of Jackson's Orcs were wasted, some were great, but that picture kind of looks like a young fan made costume of a Star Wars Gomorean guard (or however it's spelt).
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a few traces of humour in a fantasy film is the same as breaking the reality by having something totally inviting the audience to play along, but I see the dwarf tossing still hurt many people deeply.
I didn't mind Gimli getting the comic relief role but it would have been nice to show the slightly meaner, tougher side of the dwarf come out now and then.
orlando bloom is always a mistake though. Not in look, but he's a plank. -
What's the chance that he actually changed his taste in a mere 2 years? 2 years ago he said he hated dragons, fantasy, little people with hairy feet. That's pretty specifically referring to "The Hobbit". Now he's saying that he loved the Hobbit AS A KID, but still, his comment a mere 2 years ago gave the impression that he does NOT anymore.
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But I will.I loved LotR and thought it was a well-realized film, if not perfect. I'd like to see Holm, Lee and McKellen in there, but if they can't...
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Can they/will they use much of the sets/props from LotR?
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...until it unnecessarily ruins the tension and build-up of the battle scene. Helm's Deep NEEDED all the tension it could get, what with all those dinky videogame characters milling about. The LAST thing the battle needed was a clown to drain it of whatever serious stakes were left.
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Fair comment. As with my earlier comments, I thought the Helm's Deep build up could have done with a lot more silence and white's of their eyes waiting. Sometimes the best writers know when dialogue should just be abandoned.
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until I realised how much it was used in medieval literature, so now it's okay with me. Still any chance they have to cut Bloom's dialogue is fine by me.
Especially the 'I'm feeling a slight tingle in my fingers..." -
Since the Hobbit contains lairy, pissed-up, moronic elves who can't guard a barrel it might need some re-writing to fit the trilogy aesthetic.
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I just thought you were thinkin' I was a hater! I'm sure THE HOBBIT twill be quite cool. Especially in Del Toro's hands with the whole Weta backup. Its pretty much a win-win.
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It's the story of Gollum, the way the ring twisted him into the character we know him as, and the grand journey he undertakes in the pursuit of the ring. It's kind of like the story of Anakin/Vader in many respects.
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If you didn't please do before its gone. It was fuckin' great -- totally insane, psychedelic, pop-art explosion... with CHIM CHIM!!! And they did the whole candy thing and everything. It was fuckin' great and it totally bombed. See it on IMAX before its GONE GONE GONE!!!
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THE CHIMP HOBBIT?!
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BILBO OR FRODO
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Too bad it bombed. I thought it ruled and was totally nutso / spazzadelic insanity. I predict second life as cult film.
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Ask Samwise Gamgee. He surely knows!
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"It's as plain as a pikestaff!"
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Big time.Thank gawd it bombed! Only $33 million to date. Worldwide that is. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! So it looks like we luckily won't get a sequel to this $120 million turd.
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So how can you even judge it? You watched the trailer, didn't like it, and based your judgement on that. Seems most moviegoers didn't even bother going, otherwise, it would have made at least $50mil. Which is a shame because it seems the vast majority of people who actually saw it thought it was great / cool / fun / totally nutso insane. It didn't bomb because people saw it and hated it, it bombed because nobody went to see it at all. Its a cult movie, there wasn't much mainstream interest. Its also one of the most visually insane pop-art explosions ever put to film.
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although you do seem to genuinly love speed racer, you're also the guy that thinks Hostel is an intelligent work of satire. So I think I'll take your recommendation with a pinch of salt
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You're one of the sanest and most levelheaded talkbackers on AICN, so how come we don't see you post in virtually anything else but LOTR talkbacks? I can think of numerous other discussions where you would be needed, for both smackdowns and constructive posts.
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There is nothing in those jokes you mentioned that constitutes a "wink" at the audience. The jokes were all within the context of the narrative and not some sort of joshing at the expense of the genre itself.
Fail. -
You should've noticed that since I posted my comments and thoughts about my movie experience with "PEED RACER" on one of the other 300 "CHIMP-THE MOVIE" talkbacks...
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From: Motoko KusanagiMay 14th, 2008
07:52:02 AM QUOTE: "I watched the trailers (which were nicely edited) and was kinda underwhelmed.
Then I watched the first 7 minutes and was shocked about the bad acting and the lame "race" (i.e. driving lesson) sequence. I thought that the preview sucked.
BUT I even gave it a try in theatres. But it just proved what I feared: that SPEED RACER suffers from wooden acting, lame, overblown action sequences, flawed camera work and infantile jokes. It wasn't only the fucking chimp and the fucking fat kid which ruined it for me. It was all the above plus the fact that the overall movie is a borefest par excellence. What a shame, I really like all the actors (except for that jerkoff Hirsch)." ENDQUOTE -
out of the Wild at the end of the LotR TB's in 2004. Often seen dispensing scholarship and wit in those calm surroundings.
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on his head, like in the flash back and he'll look fine and he's the perfect actor for the role.
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There's *no good reason* why WETA can't make Holm look the age they made him in FOTR (50-60 human years old). It is a bit on the old side for THE HOBBIT, but Jackson already made the decision to make Bilbo a bit older at the time of the journey to the Lonely Mountain, and they need to stick to that decision for continuity. Plus, there is no one--I repeat--NO ONE on the planet (who I'm aware of) that could hold a candle to the perfection in casting that is Ian Holm as Bilbo. Holm simply was born to play THE HOBBIT.
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...I focus on the LotR TB's due to my being a complete and utter Tolkien whore. Plus, I have only a limited amount of time to post, usually. Always enjoy your post and you have a tremendous amount of talent in the smackdown department yerself. Anar kaluva tielyanna mellon...
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...the man (Holm) is 77 years old. He might just not be physically up to the task though I have no doubt he could be made up to look younger. Of course Bilbo was 61 when he set out on the Quest for Erebor but Hobbit's generally didn't age like men. I found the young Elijah Wood to be a bit of a stretch since Frodo was 50 when he set out for Mordor. Anyway, I just don't know about seeing Holms with a dreadful amount of makeup on for two and a half hours. Still, I certainly agree he's the perfect choice if only it weren't for his age...bother.
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...and I may only be a wit by half.
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You say that as if it were the merest blink of an eye. Whatever he said then sure doesn't seem to hold true today and it's a moot point anyway...he IS the director of The Hobbit.Y'know, I hate to say it, buuuttt you're treading the exact same path you did with Two Towers. I remember there was one little thing from a trailer that set you off (the style of the Elves armor or something) and you made your mind up, right then and there, to hate it. Nope, didn't need to see it first to know you weren't going to like it at all. Since you seem, once again, to be predisposed to hate anything even remotely associated with PJ, why are you even interested in The Hobbit? It just doesn't make sense unless you're a masochist. Just curious...
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He's always been a spry ol' coot, and I suspect he could pull it off if anyone that age could. Of course, in one's mid to late seventies anyone could become frail quickly, but I say if he's up for it--let him do it!
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at the beginning of the quest to liberate Thorin's ancestral home from that old worm, Smaug, Jackson & Co made it EXPLICIT that movie-Bilbo looked 50-60 (in human years) if he looked a day. The prologue of FOTR and the subsequent opening scenes in Hobbiton make it difficult to a) use another actor for Bilbo and b) make Bilbo look thirty something in human years (which I've always imagined Tolkien's Bilbo to be at the start of his adventure).Of course, if Holm CAN'T do it, they need to get an actor that looks a LOT like Holm, can feasibly look between 50-60 (human yrs) and who is also a PHENOMENAL actor. An Elijah Wood type would be poison to cast as Bilbo methinks (because Wood doesn't measure up to the requirements of the character in age, resemblance to Holm or, frankly, talent). No offense to Wood. Holm is simply one of the best actors alive.
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The "continuity" problem with Holm seems insuperable.
The very brief flashback in FotR, showing Bilbo at the time of "the Hobbit" was in low light. Holm could be passed off as a hobbit of the appropriate age.
That was filmed in 1999, AFAIK.
Ten years later, it's hard to see how the trick could be repeated - even if Holm is interested in repeating the role. Judging by his autobiography, that's not a foregone conclusion.
Another problem is that studios are wary of casting old actors in films aimed at a young audience. The failure of Gilliam's "Adventures of Baron Munchausen" was attributed by many to the casting of the great John Neville.
But I agree, Le Vicious, Holm is a superb actor.
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...Neville was superb in BM. Possibly Gilliam's most underrated movie. "No doctors!"
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...but my head says otherwise. Nonetheless, if Sir Ian agrees to do it then he will certainly be confident enough to make it work. Well, that's what happens when the Long Tale of Arda gets depicted out of order.On another note concerning continuity, I hope GDT doesn't go with John Howe's winged Nazgul mount from LotR as a model for Smaug. I wouldn't think so and I haven't heard Howe will be invited back anyway. TORN has a pretty spiffy article about that very subject and I agree with their take. The look will be one thing but the old lizard should radiate personality. Of course, Gandalf's firework dragon from FotR would also be a good model...in the head department anyway. Just thinking about the visual of Bilbo's first conversation with him ( not to mention the dialogue!) puts a big grin on my puss.
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Surely this time there is no escape!My FAVORITE Gilliam film--and one of my favorites of all time! As you can tell, I tend to like my actors old (and GOOD)...Yeah, maybe I'm being unrealistic about Holm, but he is just so spot on perfect in FOTR particularly. In fact, I remember seeing the first twenty minutes or so of FOTR (particularly after Holm and McKellen's picture perfect smoking scene) and thinking, "this is the best thing I've ever seen on film." Unfortunately, there were some flaws in the production that became evident later, but Holm's Bilbo (and the Shire in general) were as perfect as they could be. I'd personally like a huge, muscular Smaug (though not as Schwarzeneggerian as the Brothers Hildebrandt's take) rather than the snake-like, Saint George type worm. I actually love the general design of Smaug in the old Rankin Bass cartoon (see http://tinyurl.com/6j66jg ).
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May 19, 2008 11:19:43 AM CDT
Think it will be an awesome film, but I have to laugh
by crichtonastronut
at the bi-line "The Greatest Adventure lies ahead." is pretty ironic as a bi-line for prequel.
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