Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
It's no secret that we here at Ain't It Cool love a little movie that has been floating around the festival circuit for more than a year called SON OF RAMBOW, one of the most inspired and joyous films about discovering your creative niche I've ever seen. There's both irrepressible energy and even (dare I say) emotional depth to this work, brought to us from the creative production team known collectively as Hammer & Tongs--but known to their mothers as writer-director Garth Jennings and producer Nick Goldsmith.
Now I just got finished reading Moriarty's exceptional recent interview with the pair (which I had no idea he was doing), and I was glad to see we didn't cover a whole lot of the same ground. But I'm even happier to acknowledge that I got nearly three times the time he did with these two--almost 45 minutes.
As I've said before when Quint and I have (intentionally and unintentionally) double-teamed on an interview subject in our respective cities, I think it's great, primarily because we get more information to share with you guys and because a film like SON OF RAMBOW deserve and require as much coverage as possible to even get noticed, especially as we enter the summer movie season.
For years, Hammer & Tongs put together some pretty groovin' music videos for bands such as Radiohead, R.E.M., and most recently Vampire Weekend; and a couple years ago, as they were attempting to get SON OF RAMBOW into production, they were approached to assemble Douglas Adams' THE HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY, an opportunity they simply could not refuse.
So when time came to return to SON OF RAMBOW, they thought their experience making HITCHHIKER would mean studios would be beating down their doors to finance their follow-up film. They were wrong. This in no way discouraged them, and the result is a remarkably glorious examination of what happens to a young boy when his long-repressed creative impulses are set loose into the world after one fateful viewing of FIRST BLOOD.
I had a chance to sit down with Garth and Nick the day after a rip-roaringly fun, post-screening Q&A I moderated here in Chicago with the pair. These are two of the absolute nicest guys I've ever met, and more than anything, they simply want their movie to get out and be seen by the world. I couldn't agree more. Here's Hammer & Tongs…
Capone: So are you enjoying your whirlwind tour of America…again?
Garth Jennings: This has actually been
a great experience, especially going to these screenings. People have responded very well. It's been a much more do-able schedule, and the interviews have been much more like conversations. Even like last night, we got to chat with you before going into the Q&A; you made it really pleasant for us; it was really good fun.
When we did HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE, we did three days in total of junkets, and you'd just sit in a room. On my first day, I'll never forget it, I did 67 television interviews. I know it's all for the greater good, but by the end of that, you're sitting there thinking, "I don't know who I am anymore, and I'm sure those people didn't get that much from it. They can't have gotten anything from it!" So this is a far more face to face and conversational.
Capone: When was the last time you saw home?
Nick Goldsmith: It's not too bad. We've been here for two weeks, this is our second week.
GJ: We're away from the UK total: three weeks. That's not too bad.
Capone: Garth, are we going to see your childhood RAMBO-esque film and/or something that resembles the finished film that the kids make in SON OF RAMBOW on the DVD?
GJ: Yeah. Well my film, the one that I made as I child, I think there's a version of it, I don't think it's the full version, on…
NG: I think we should put the full version on the DVD.
GJ: Yeah, we'll put the full version of my little movie, which is about nine minute long--an epic--on the DVD. But the slightly edited version with copyright-free music is on our Film Frenzy web site competition [HERE]-- viewers can submit their own homemade shorts at the moment. We thought we'd put it up there to help people realize, "This is what we did, so please don't think you have to be that good."
NG: I think we also might put Lee Carter's [one of the characters in SON OF RAMBOW] film, a sort of like insect snuff movie prior to discovering this stuntman in Will Proudfoot [the lead character]. So we shot that film as rehearsals for the kids.
GJ: Our first day of rehearsal, we took the kids out to Nick's mom's house and we went in the back yard with an air rifle and explosives, load of balloons and little toys.
NG: And many insects were hurt in the making of that film. [laughs]
GJ: You know how you used to get a match and an aerosol can?
Capone: Sure. You guys are awful.
GJ: [laughs] So we did all of that and we cut it together into a crappy little home movie. Originally it was going to be the opening sequence of the film, but we took it out.
Capone: You guys are promoting every bad behavior kids can get involved with.
NG: Hell yes!
Capone: Guns, explosives, vandalism, mild torture, and the deadliest of all: Pop Rocks and Coke.
GJ: It's weird, isn't it?
NG: Yeah, but they're going to do it anyway. We're not encouraging them. I used to get tadpoles and play tadpole Russian roulette. You'd get a syringe--no needle--just a syringe, and you put it on the tadpole's head and you'd suck it up. And it would either explode or come up into the syringe.
GJ: That's a little troubling.
Capone: If for no other reason than you had access to syringes.
NG: [laughs] I don't know where we got the syringes from, but we loved that game.
GJ: Kids get ahold of all kinds of things we shouldn't have. When I look back, I cringe. I really do think, "Ah, if we'd just done the wrong thing with that air rifle…" And we were always getting broken arms and things from just going too far.
NG: Half the things in our film aren't half as bad as what kids are actually doing.
Capone: When I first saw the film, what really struck home with me was thinking back to when I was a kid, my family was the first on the block with a video camera, one of the old-school kinds with full-size VHS cassettes.
So my brother and I were the ringleaders of our own short films, including episodes of "Star Trek" and "Buck Rogers." And right after we saw RETURN OF THE JEDI, we set out to actually script and storyboard and record a bridge film between EMPIRE and JEDI. Our film was probably more like 20 minutes. And I'm sure there are a million stories like that.
GJ: That's great! I love hearing things like that.
NG: Can you edit that down to under five minutes and enter our competition?
GJ: I would love to see that. If you find that, please, enter it. It sounds like the perfect thing.
Capone: It's buried somewhere in the basement of my parents' house on the East Coast. What do you remember about some of the homemade special effects and stunts you pulled off when you were young?
GJ: One of the special effects I remember really liking was the one where…Well, to put this into context, I played the head of the military defense; I'm kidnapped by the PLO; I'm taken to their secret bunker, which is my mother's garden shed; and they cover the bunker with petrol and they're going to set fire to it unless their demands are met. The Rambo character comes to save me and flips it on them.
The bad guys end up in the shed; I'm saved; we lock the shed; and we burn them alive in the shed. And the way we did that was you see the match get thrown toward the camera and you can hear them hammering on the walls. And this kid had a stick with a rag, and the rag went under the camera lens. We went "Whoa!" And that was their cue to scream.
But what I love about it and what used to make my mom and dad roar with laughter was the fact that it was such a cool shot that the kid who was behind the camera, all you can hear is him going "Wow! That looks amazing!" And it didn't bother us. "You talked over it; never mind." It's in the final film. "That looks brilliant!" There were loads of things like that.
The one we love the most was the dummy out the window. And in those days you only had the clothes you were wearing, so you had to stand there in your underpants while the dummy wore your clothes and then get back into them. And there was no shame involved; it was all just good fun.
But we would use dangerous things. We got hold of a starter pistol that fired proper blanks, and if that had been pointing at any of our heads, it would have been a disaster. It was always like that the dangerous things tended to happen outside of the filmmaking. The day spent swinging on rope swings over dangerous objects or climbing over power station walls.
Capone: Building a ramp for your bike.
GJ: Exactly. Someone was always breaking their arm or someone was getting handlebars in their chest and getting winded or crying and having to be taken home.
NG: For us, it was always the girl who we'd tell, "No, don't do it." And she'd say, "No, I have to do it." And then she'd go on a BMX over a ramp and land on her head.
Capone: You mentioned last night that FIRST BLOOD was the first age-inappropriate film that you saw. Do you remember any other films from that time that stuck with you, either age-inappropriate or just ones that impacted you greatly?
NG: Mine was THE HILLS HAVE EYES, but I wasn't particularly happy about it. [laughs] I don't think it inspired me; it just kept me from sleeping for a couple of days. That was because my friend's older brother had a copy of it, and he thought it would be fun to show it to some 10 year olds. So my mom and dad weren't particularly happy with this brother of my friend. I definitely wasn't meant to be seeing it.
GJ: After FIRST BLOOD, I think the next thing that would have been age-inappropriate for me, in it's entirely, because I saw clips from things that would scare the pants off of me. I remember seeing a clip from THE ELEPHANT MAN when I was very young, I was under 11, I was terrified, had nightmares for weeks. I used to get terrible nightmares when I was a kid. That doesn't happen now, which is great. My children will have that, but I'll know what to do; it's fine. The first real horror film I saw, God, I just remembered this: some kid at school got FACES OF DEATH. Do you remember that?
Capone: You mean the documentary collection of animal killings and people dying.
GJ: Right. I would have been 15. That was the first time I saw something and really wished I'd never seen it. And I went into it going, "Ooo, I'm going to like this. This is going to be exciting, seeing men eaten by alligators."
And actually from that point on being very weak-stomached, realizing I didn't have the gumption to watch those things. I remember us all turning it off. It felt like the kids at the end of STAND BY ME, when they finally see the dead body, and suddenly they feel guilty. They spent that whole time being excited by the promise of seeing a dead body, then you see it and there's this time when you want to see a priest or something and have those images taken away. You never want to see that again.
Capone: Did your parents care more about you seeing sexual stuff and maybe less about the violent films? That's how it was in my house. Or was it the opposite?
GJ: It's funny. It was never vocalized. "That's forbidden" or "You're not going to watch that." You just didn't. I think also, I was a very shy and nervous kid and was easily affected by things, so I wouldn't have wanted to watch anything too scary anyway.
NG: What about sexy? 10?
GJ: I don't remember seeing it. 10, I never saw that. I don't really remember there being any real laid-down rules. I remember when we were younger, we thought the sexy stuff was horrible. We'd go, "Oh God, he's kissing her." If Rambo had kissed a woman, we'd never be making this film. We thought girls were rubbish. It was only later, when you get into your…
NG: …late 20s.
[Everybody laughs]
GJ: [deepens voice] Now I understand this kissing! This kissing is good.
Capone: For many years after the Rambo phenomenon--and the series really didn't become iconic until the second film…
NG: Exactly.
Capone: But, of course, now, John Rambo is one of the most defining American characters to those outside of America, and all the good and bad that implies. Did anything like that occur to you at that age, this is what Americans are like?
GJ: That's the thing. We didn't see the bigger picture at that age. We only saw the surface. We only saw a man with a knife and a stick, and he could sew up his own arm without crying. Really, we didn't understand the Vietnam War then. There was a song on the charts at the time, it was on the charts for, I think, about 11 weeks, called "19." The Vietnam War is a funky disco record to us, with samples of soldiers screaming, and we thought it was the coolest thing. All that stuff, we only saw as escapism, not as a comment on society or reflecting reality.
It was only afterwards that you realize that Rambo was such an iconic character. I think it was famous when Reagan embraced him. "Love that guy, love that Rambo, one-man army, take 'em all on." That's the dream. But it was only when we got older that we realized that that was how people were thinking we were perceiving it rather than how we really were.
NG: And then in the other films, he went on to become a caricature of himself.
Capone: I was going to bring that up. There's no way you could have known when you started filming your movie that Stallone was about to make another Rambo film.
GJ: No way. If you'd have asked me eight years ago if it was going to happen, I would have laid a million pounds that it wouldn't; it was a bizarre coincidence. And not only did he make one, but they came out within months of each other. Extraordinary.
NG: It wasn't planned, but I don't think it's hurt us at all, just in the sense that it's been 20 years since RAMBO III, so there's a whole generation who have no idea what Rambo is, prior to this film coming out. You say you're working on SON OF RAMBOW, and they say, "What's a Rambow?"
GJ: Nick's kids didn't know what Rambo was.
NG: In a way, it's helped because it's put the name back into the collective consciousness of people. But it's bizarre.
GJ: It is bizarre.
Capone: Did you see the new Rambo?
GJ: Yes. We went to the premiere in the UK, and it was very big one where they have it in five different screens at once. And again, we're such fans of the early one. It felt more like a continuation of the later movies, more gung-ho. I had a hope it would be more like the first one, but that's an almost impossible task, I suppose. It didn't do it for me.
NG: And also, apart from the first one, all of the film are about him going into other countries to sort out the problems. What was great about the first one it was about a man not being accepted in his own country.
Capone: He was the one being hunted.
GJ: Kids love that as well, the idea of authority and going against them.
Capone: 200 against one.
NG: Yeah. It's a very different film from the others, in every single facet.
GJ: We were laughing though, it is one of the grizzliest films I've seen in a long time, and I tend to avoid the horror genre. You can't just get shot anymore, you have to shatter and the shattered pieces have to hit the lens.
NG: That's Spielberg's fault, isn't it? From SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.
GJ: It is, exactly. What has he done?
Capone: I think it's well known that Stallone likes your film. Did you know ahead of time that he was going to see it? Or did word just reach you unexpectedly?
GJ: Absolutely not. We'd been pushing and pushing to get him to see it, but knowing that he was very busy making his Rambo film and promoting it…
NG: But we were trying to make it happen, it wasn't that he just saw it.
GJ: It just so happened that Nick and I had gone on our respective holidays, and I got a call from Paramount saying, "It happened. He's just seen it; it went great, and here's his response." And they read me his note over the phone. It was a really lovely surprise.
Capone: I focused on this a lot last night, and I'm not sure why, but the foreign exchange student character, Didier, is fantastic. Of course I remember having them at my high school. Why are they so exotic to us? I remember when we used to get them at my school, the temptation was to corrupt them somehow.
GJ: Physically, they looked very different. They didn't have school uniforms, whereas we did. So instantly, you have this very colorful bunch of kids. And the fact that they didn't have to wear school uniforms also meant that they didn't have to wear their hair a certain way, and they weren't forbidden to wear jewelry. They would do what all teenagers would do if given the chance: they would embellish themselves. They would just look far more exotic. So the French character, to be very general about it, was very different from the standard general UK character. They seemed far cooler.
NG: Also, France seemed, even though it was only across the Channel, it's a whole other country, with a different language. For us, when we used to go on French school trips, where you'd go for a couple of days over the France as a school, not as an exchange.
What I remember so clearly about those trips was we'd love to go on them because on those trips, we'd buy bangers [firecrackers/works], quite big bangers, dangerous ones, and knives. And we'd smuggles them back in the coach. That's what France was for us. So it was like, France equals bangers and knives. More bad behavior. It was good. We can't get that here. So when the French came over it was a bit like, "They come from that world. They have that stuff."
GJ: You know what it was as well, physically, and maybe it's because I was a very, very late developer, but I was very aware that these people looked like they were two years older than us. They already had mustaches coming along. They'd begun to smell, a lot of the guys, not in a bad way. But I wanted to get those smells. "Where are my hormones?!" [laughs] That was really impressive. Clearly, we've made a heightened version of all of these experiences, but not that heightened.
Capone: It's clear from this film that you are both students of music and probably have been for a while. There's a great selection of '80s songs in this movie. So the idea that you could make a living making music videos must have been beyond your wildest dreams.
GJ: You're absolutely right. And we were really lucky, because we got a good 10-year crack at it before starting to make films. And I would say that the majority of videos that we made were for bands we didn't just like, we loved them. The songs were like a gift. It was making a short film with the best soundtrack you could possibly have. We were very lucky. And it's very different now. I don't think we'd be able to survive today.
We were able to do it as a living and not have to have any other jobs; it was our little company built on music videos. As you say, we were big music fans. When you start getting commissioned to do a video for a band like R.E.M., who you not only love musically, but who have the best music videos. And the idea that you could contribute something to that, and stand up against those things, is really lovely.
Capone: I've always hyper-aware of who directs music videos, and you've aligned yourselves with these bands that take a lot of care and consideration to the visual style of their videos. Is the pressure and the process of making those any different than the film work?
GJ: We always said that once we got the hang of it on the technical side, the idea side is never an easy run--you always have to think of something different. But technically, it was very easy to apply that to filmmaking. Really, by making loads of music videos, we'd accumulated this gang and this work ethic that we all shared. And that took us very comfortably into films.
NG: I think the only pressure, as Garth was saying before, is that you really love this band. And you're making the video for them; it's a product; it's something they use to sell records. You don't want to muck it up for somebody you really like, because you'd feel terrible. There's a pressure there. I remember when we finished the R.E.M. video ["Imitation of Life"], we were flying home, and we shot the whole thing out of synch, and it was the worst flight ever.
We thought we'd completely and utterly ruined it and would never work with them again. With music videos, you are making something for them. It's slightly different for a film--I guess it depends on how you're making the film. But with SON OF RAMBOW, it's very much you're making it for everyone to see at the cinema, but you've making it for you first and foremost.
GJ: I remember from that R.E.M. shoot, we only had seven minutes of rushes from the entire shoot. Because it was only one 20-second shot, and we'd only had a few go's at it. So to spend all that money and to come home with just that tiny real.
NG: But it was the same with that first Beck video, "Lost Cause".
GJ: We did "Lost Cause," which almost lived up to what the song was about. But it came out great in the end, because you do the things you love and you end up having a lot of built-in pressure with that. As we did with HITCHHIKER'S.
Capone: Well if RAMBOW had been your first film, it would have been a much smaller production and a nice way to ease into filmmaking.
But instead you get thrown into the deep end of the process: Disney, a book that is so well loved that it's almost inconceivable that everyone who sees the film will like it. Are you glad that's how it started for you in terms of films?
GJ: I don't think either of us felt like we were going into the deep end.
NG: Because we went into it like we do absolutely everything else we go into. We go, "Yeah, we can do this!" And thinking no one is ever going to say Yes, and that goes for all our music videos. And then someone turns around and goes, "Here you go; go make it." And that's what happened with HITCHHIKER'S. We didn't think we were going to get it, it's a 40 million pound movie.
GJ: We spent eight months working on the pitch, so we had the film in our heads, we had it all worked out. But we figured there was a huge gulf between the work we'd done and actually being greenlit, but it was in a room like this, slightly bigger, and the guy looked at all our stuff and after 25 minutes, they head of Disney said, "Have it ready for summer 2005."
We were in tears coming out of there. Well, I was, I was in bits. "What? Holy shit! Oh my god, we've got to actually make a Vogon now." We hadn't worked any of that bit out; we hadn't worked any of it out. And it also meant so much to so many people that it had been greenlit, because it had taken Douglas Adams 20 years and now he wasn't around to see it though. So it's quite an amazing call to make to his wife and his whole family and say, "We're actually going now." Happy times.
Capone: As SON OF RAMBOW has gone through the festival circuit--and it's been over a year since it premiered--have you worried that all of this wonderful buzz that's been generated is going to subside before people actually get to see it?
NG: Yes, a little bit. But we're lucky in a sense that it's only two weeks away now, so hopefully it will all build up into something. The thing with SON OF RAMBOW is someone going to the cinema, sees it, then hopefully they'll come out liking it, and tell their friends to go and see it. And long as we can get them into the cinema, that's all that matters.
The film is our biggest marketing device. It seems to work. Whenever we show it, from the reactions we've been getting, it seems to work. I don't think any poster or marketing campaign can quite do it the way just seeing the film does. If somehow people go and see it that first week--as long as they go and see it the first week--fingers crossed, then it will have a ripple effect.
GJ: That's what happened in the UK, where it opened a couple of weeks ago. We had a really good start, and then usually you get the big dropoff, but we didn't, it just stayed there and it's still there now. And it's really lovely. It's by no means making the kind of money that 21 is making, but it's still there at Number 2. I just want it to stay there while all of these big things dive in and out and knock it around, just hang about.
Capone: You mentioned last night that you initially had trouble getting financing because people weren't sure how they'd market the film.
GJ: Yeah, how dare we come up with a film that's for everyone.
Capone: Right, and it seems that a film that appeals to both children and adults would be the easiest films in the world to market.
NG: Why weren't you there? Why didn't you finance it?
GJ: You've got to become a studio boss! [laughs]
Capone: The kids that were there last night seemed to love it.
NG: We all old that.
GJ: We were tearing our hair out, because they'd say, "It's for everyone." And we'd say, "Yeah." And they'd say, "But you can't do it for everyone. Either it's got to be for kids or for adults." And you'd think that what we were actually trying to propose was the Holy Grail commercially, not that we were thinking commercially.
But we thought we'd made something that would work across the board. No. That worries a financier. What they want is: It's for these guys--it's for 18- to 23-year-old males who like certain things. Or, this is for 50-year-old women who are feeling a little sad at the moment and need a bit of cheering up. You say it's for everyone, and they don't want to hear that.
NG: How do you market something for everyone?
GJ: If you say it's for kids, the adults won't go; if you do it for the adults, the kids won't go. That's the trouble. Well maybe we all need to be a bit creative now, and now we have to think outside of these little boxes we've made up. It sounds terribly patronizing when I put it like that. But that's why Nick said, the best thing we can do is show the movie and then hope that people talk about it.
Capone: I do consider this a coming-of-age film, but when most people use that expression, they think it means some sort of sexual coming of age.
But this is more of a creative version of that, not just about discovering film but also about a child with all of this pent-up creativity, he just didn't have an outlet. That's the maturing aspect to this story. I'm sure girls happen later.
GJ: Absolutely, that's the sequel [laughs].
NG: We had a draft of this with more girl action.
GJ: That's right, they were trying to recruit girls. And there's a scene where they're by this window, and they see this girl naked
NG: Oh, there were many draft of this film.
Capone: That sounds like a good draft.
NG: The good thing about all the drafts is that they all have wonderful moments, and you go, "That was amazing, that draft. Why didn't we go with that one?" And then you realize, that was the only good moment in that one. The rest of the story didn't work.
Capone: I'm guessing that over the past couple of weeks people have offered up comparisons between RAMBOW and BE KIND REWIND.
GJ: We haven't seen that one yet, though, but yes.
Capone: I don't think I would have ever made that leap mainly because it's about grown folks getting the filmmaking bug. I guess there is a thread, both sets of filmmakers grow to love the craft in the end.
GJ: There are plenty of moments in the film where you see that filmmaking gets ridiculous and ruins people's lives.
NG: And filmmaking was very much a part of the story, but it isn't the story we set out to tell. It isn't a film specifically about filmmaking. It's about that youth and the friendships that you make in that world when everything was possible and you had no further consequences. It's about capturing that. We used to talk about STAND BY ME. They go looking for the dead body. The story needs that, but it's a story about the relationship between those kids.
Capone: It's the journey.
NG: Right, the journey. In a way, we couldn't have not had the filmmaking in SON OF RAMBOW, but it's the journey for the friendship to develop.
Capone: I think a lot of people are going to read into that sequence that shows us the last day of shooting where there are dozens of people, all contributing, as some sort of commentary on what happens when you get famous or when you get organized. Was that on your mind?
GJ: That was an very intentional thing because it's all about the friendship, and if your friendship is going to be tested by this filmmaking process, which friendships are if you're collaborating with someone when you're making a film.
There are all sorts of directions that you are pulled in. It felt like there were all these little threads going along, and if the movie itself had a thread, it was definitely that. There was this honeymoon period where they were doing it together, then other people come along and everything gets more complicated until eventually it becomes something very different than what they started off making, and that seems like an obvious element.
Capone: And even bringing in the exchange student into the acting is much like a Hollywood celebrity who decides he wants to get involved in a small indie film.
GJ: Suddenly, they have to have a bigger part and have creative input. It's a very old story.
NG: It's all in there, you know? "He needs some Coca Cola!" You have to be careful to go too far down that road, because it would be so easy.
GJ: There are a couple of jokes that are right on the edge, like the line "Hurry up people, we're losing light." You do think as you're shooting that, "Hmmm, maybe not." But that kid made me laugh, so we left it in.
Capone: Your two leads are these kids who have never acted before, and the success or failure of this movie rests on the heads of these two completely untested kids.
Was there ever a time when you thought, Maybe we should go with a Freddie Highmore in one of the roles?
GJ: It's funny you say that. The first kid we ever say for the part of Will Proudfoot, before HITCHHIKER'S, when we started initial casting, was Freddie Highmore.
Capone: Wow.
GJ: And I don't think he'd been in anything.
NG: He'd been in one thing, but I don't remember what it was.
GJ: They just said, "You should meet this kid Freddie Highmore. He's very sweet." And within days, we were shifting gears and making a sci-fi movie.
NG: And the moment we cast them--and we only cast them because we knew that they were right. From the moment they came in and we saw them, there was no more fear. The only fear was, Okay, let's hope they're just as good together. They might be great individually, but they might not work together. But then when we did get them together and they were brilliant together, happy days.
GJ: Yeah, we didn't have to manufacture their friendship. They became the best of buddies, because they were both having the same experience, and that helped. But they're also both really good kids.
Capone: It's funny. Will is a more traditional "kid," where as Lee is this little adult who is shifty. But they mesh really well.
GJ: Yeah, and I'm sure you remember this from being a kid as well, they kids that play tougher, they say things that they'd heard their older brothers say. They use these phrases and body language that they'd seen the older kids saying. It was like wearing a suit that's a bit too big for you. It doesn't quite work. So I think you're aware from the start, he may be coming on as a bully and the savvy one, but he's actually this sweet little boy who's desperate for a friend.
Capone: Gentlemen, I think our time is up.
NG: Thank you so much.
NJ. Yeah, and thank you again for looking out for us last night.
Capone: You guys made it easy. I don't remember ever seeing that many hands go up for a Q&A before, usually I have to coax them. So the film inspired that. Take care and good luck with this.
Capone
