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The Sontaran Stratagem!! The Brave People Of The United Kingdom Appraise WHO 30.4!!

I am – Hercules!!
America’s SciFi Channel transmitted “Doctor Who” 30.1 only last night, but the Brits are already up to 30.4. “Doctor Dan” says:
DOCTOR WHO 4.4 – "The Sontaran Stratagem" Writer: Helen Raynor Director: Douglas Mackinnon Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna), Freema Agyeman (Martha), Christopher Ryan (General Staal), Rupert Holiday Evans (Colonel Mace), Dan Starkey (Commander Skorr), Bernard Cribbins (Wilfred Mott), Jacqueline King (Sylvia Noble), Elenor Matsuura (Jo Nakashima), Ryan Sampson (Luke Rattigan), Christian Cooke (Ross Jenkins), Clive Standen (Prvt. Harris), Wesley Theobald (Prvt. Gray), Rad Kaim (Worker) & Elizabeth Ryder (ATMOS Voice) The Doctor is urgently called back to Earth by Martha Jones, as the war-mongering Sontarans attack the planet... "Is that what you did to her; turn her into a soldier?" -- Donna to The Doctor, on Martha After last year's disappointing Daleks In Manhattan/Evolution Of The Daleks two-parter (some good ideas, badly executed) writer Helen Raynor tries her luck again in another epic two-part story; this one contemporized and involving lesser-known classic Who villains The Sontarans... Doctor Who has a long history of finding ways to turn innocent-looking people or innocuous items into deadly weapons and enemies, and that's exactly what The Sontaran Stratagem counts on with its ATMOS device. These "Atmospheric Omissions Systems" are now attached to the world's 800 million vehicles, but their environmentally-friendly appearance (and helpful in-built sat-navs) are actually miniature Trojan Horses for a devastating alien attack... The Doctor (David Tennant) has to cut short a TARDIS-driving less with Donna (Catherine Tate), after receiving a phone call from former-companion Martha Jones (Freema Agyeman), who's now a qualified doctor, engaged to Tom Millington (the handsome soldier seen in Last Of The Time Lords) and working for UNIT. She needs The Doctor's help in identifying the source of the ATMOS devices, after 52 people simultaneously died from some kind of poisoning whilst driving ATMOS-equipped vehicles worldwide. The Sontaran Stratagem works on a number of levels for fans of the series: 1 -- it's obviously great to see Martha Jones back on the show (her character so badly fudged after a great introduction last year), although her appearances on Torchwood in the interim mean her reappearance isn't quite as exciting as it might have been. 2 -- The prospect of seeing two companions together is interesting to see play out, but the script is quick to shoot down any antagonism between Donna and Martha. I suppose that's fair, as both women are adults, Donna's yet to stamp her authority as a companion, and Martha's moved on from The Doctor, but it was still a missed opportunity in some ways. I actually think the writers shied away from having two companions bickering (thus fuelling anti-Donna sentiment from Martha fans), which is fair enough. And 3 -- the return of a popular Who villain like the Sontarans is bound to get old-school fans salivating at how modern techniques have breathed life into these potato-headed cloned super-soldiers... After a muted performance last week, The Doctor is back on top form as he's brought up to speed on events from Martha and UNITs Colonel Mace (Rupert Holiday Evans), who has just led an assault on an ATMOS manufacturing plant looking for answers. As is usual, there's a sinister underbelly to the ATMOS factory, but it's not quite as clichéd as usual – although it does once again involve a secret area where two UNIT soldiers find an faceless, naked human swimming about in a tub of green, stinking goo. Martha imparts some advice to Donna about ensuring her family knows about her adventures, so Donna decides to head home to catch up with her family. With Martha engaged with UNIT-related matters, The Doctor actually spends a large chunk of the episode with a new "companion", in the shape of UNIT grunt Ross (Christian Cooke). Together, they investigate Rattigan Academy , the abode of teenage genius Luke Rattigan (Ryan Sampson), the creator of ATMOS who's in cahoots with the orbiting Sontarans, led by General Staal (Christopher Ryan). The performances are all very good here. As I mentioned, David Tennant is really back on form, as Helen Raynor's script gives him more opportunities for inventive wordplay, "bad" jokes and the impish glee Tennant really excels at. Without a decent script, Tennant always brings enthusiasm and playfulness to the role, but he's at his best when he can spit out some killer lines and the strength of dialogue matches his performance. A scene where he mistakenly thinks Donna has decided to go home for good, before it dawns on him she has every intention of coming back in a few hours, was beautifully done. And only Tennant could get away with puns like "intruder-window" after teleporting aboard the Sontaran ship, which elicits a big smile instead of eye rolls. Catherine Tate is pushed into the background quite a bit, as she's not particularly instrumental to the Sontaran-based plot. Her trip back home to Chiswick, to see her Gramps (Bernard Cribbins) and mother Sylvia (Jacqueline King), wasn't particularly interesting, but it was amusing when Martha realized her Gramps has already met The Doctor (during Voyage Of The Damned) and her mother remembers him from the wedding day fiasco (in The Runaway Bride). If there's one thing Donna's elevation to proper companion status has achieved, it's the loss of wearisome introductions between Doctor and extended family. Freema Agyeman can be a bit limp and occasionally rather wooden (was that really the best line deliver of "Doctor, I'm bringing you home" the director could choose from?), she has a strange habit of getting better as you watch. It helps that the tinkering to her character (off-screen, but seen in Torchwood's second season) has definitely helped, but I don't think it's likely she'll return to the TARDIS as a regular companion again – not if she's found her place in life and has a fiancé now. Martha's more proactive and in-charge than we've seen her before, and it works well – even when she's captured and reverts to being a damsel in distress. But as a result, Freema's fans are treated to the sight of a naked clone-Martha covered in slime -- so I doubt there'll be any complaints! Guest star Christopher Ryan is excellent as General Staal – with his voice particularly perfect for a dictatorial "little man", while the make-up for all the Sontarans finally do justice to the idea (which 70s/80s make-up couldn't quite achieve). They've always been the stupidest-looking Who aliens with their potato-heads, but the revamp here works extremely well. And it's just nice to have an iconic villain for The Doctor to properly act opposite – as the Daleks and Cybermen (while both great for other reasons) are faceless automatons. Overall, The Sontaran Stratagem is definitely a very strong episode, packed with entertaining moments and lots of Who mythology for older fans to savour. It works brilliantly as a set-up for next week's pay-off The Poison Sky, although the specifics of the plot were slightly too humdrum and clichéd to fire my imagination. A top-form Tennant, likeable Agyeman, the presence of UNIT and the wonderful Sontarans ensure there's never a dull moment, but I'm hoping part 2 gets Donna more actively involved and explains its less successful elements; like Rattigan's background, the reason for that cloning pool, and the Sontarans' ultimate aim... The Good -- David Tennant is really back on fine here; thanks to strong, witty dialogue from writer Helen Raynor. Give Tennant the words and he'll deliver in spades. -- Her delivery is sometimes a bit wooden, but Freema Agyeman's new take on Martha Jones is a welcome evolution of the character from love-struck clever clogs to confident professional woman. -- The make-up for the new-look Sontarans was excellent and Christopher Ryan's performance was particularly strong as General Staal. -- A superb "going home" moment of comedy between The Doctor and Donna. And I rather liked the Donna TARDIS-driving line: "A bit too close to the 1980s!" -- The general harking back to recent and past glories (Martha, UNIT, Sontarans, Time War) means this episode should please geekier fans -- particularly those who remember the Sontarans the first time round. -- I really liked the purple/pink/red/blue colour palettes used throughout this episode, clearly linking the Sontaran's aesthetic to the events they're manipulating on Earth around ATMOS and Rattigan Academy . The Bad -- The subplot with Donna was a bit weak and only really served to give The Doctor a decent life-or-death cliffhanger that involved her family. -- Things will hopefully become clearer in part 2, but it seemed strange that a kid genius like Luke Rattigan would think it a good idea help aliens who want to kill 800 million vehicle drivers. And the whole Rattigan Academy scenario, where the world's gifted children come to learn, just didn't click with me. But I do think it will become clearer in part 2. -- The CGI for the Sontaran ship was pretty good, but a bit staccato when in motion. The Geeky -- The Sontarans are classic Doctor Who villains who first appeared in the 1973 story The Time Warrior, with Jon Pertwee as The Third Doctor. The Sontarans last appeared in 1985s The Two Doctors, when Colin Baker (The Sixth Doctor) was joined by Patrick Troughton (The Second Doctor). -- Christopher Ryan (General Staal) is most famous for playing diminutive Mike in 80s sitcom The Young Ones. You might also recognize Rupert Holiday Evans (Colonel Mace) as one-half of The Double-Take Brothers from Harry Enfield's Television Programme. -- Another mention of The Time War, with Sontarans aggrieved that "face-changer" The Doctor led to greatest battle in the universe, and they weren't part of it. The Doctor also mentions The Medusa Cascade, which has been mentioned before by The Master and in The Fires Of Pompeii a few episodes ago. -- The Doctor's "intruder-window" pun was a joke he remembered Harry van Statten say in season 1's Dalek. Rating: 3.5 / 5
“Kelvington” says:
As with most Doctor Who two parters the action is typically back loaded into the second part, which is fine, and we've come to expect that, but I'll admit this episode is fairly action packed for a first parter. Tonight we get to hear the Sontaran voice long before one is seen, and the subtle ATMOS which has been cropping up since episode one, is played nicely here in the first part. Including a nice car driven into the water stunt at the beginning. Of course the person in the car didn't have to die if they had only watched "Mythbusters" but that's an argument for another day. This is one of the few Doctor Who's that has a very long teaser, I was surprised we didn't dive right into the titles after the reporter dived into the water. But getting to see Donna fly the TARDIS was worth the long intro, and the cute way they worked Martha Jones in was funny. Let me tell you what pleasure it was to see Martha Jones again, hot sexy, Martha Jones, not that Donna is second best, but REALLY she can't hold a candle to the lovely Ms. Jones. Seeing the Doctor and Martha meet up was great, including the new super duper UNIT, complete with fancy code names. Now I want to lay to rest this idea that this is NOT a continuation of the original Doctor Who series, tonight should put that to rest forever, as the UNIT people not only know of the Doctor, he HIMSELF admits to working for them in the '70's. So enough with the idea this is a NEW SERIES that has nothing to do with the old one. As for what ATMOS is, it turns out that ATMOS is a super TOM TOM, and it cleans the emissions from your car. Within the first fifteen minutes we get our first glimpse at not only a cloning facility, but some smart UNIT soldiers, and a fully armored Sontaran. Of course to the Sontarans the UNIT boys are only toy soldiers by comparison and are easily defeated. We also get to see both Donna and Martha at their best, in solving issues and finding clues. Very Scooby Doo of them. In fact this could have easily been the "Doctor-less" episode had it been written just slightly differently. As the episode progresses we get to me the kid who created the ATMOS and it's nice to see that the Doctor is truly very smart, and with some well written word play puts the boy genius who invented the ATMOS to shame, and exposes the Sontarans in short order. Plus the Doctor shows us the one Sontaran weakness, with a great bit of squash. The acting in this episode is excellent, from Sontaran leader, right down to the boy genius, it's well done and well played. The script for a first parter is well above what we have seen in the past, and Tennant shows why he should be the Doctor for the next four or five years, he moves effortlessly through the part, but still allows others to have their moments, like when Donna mocks him when she off to visit the family. What's good about the episode, Donna telling the Doctor she's going home, how the ATOMS is defeated in the Jeep, the dripping wet naked Martha Jones. And the idea of 400 million cars as poisonous weapons. What's not so good is how easily Martha is trapped, the third person flash backs (I've always hated them), the Rattigan Academy, because Rattigan is such an obvious anagram for "Giant Rat" I look forward to seeing next week to see how we save Grandpa, planet earth and how the Sontarans are defeated, if it's with more Squash I think I'll laugh myself silly. Just my 2¢
“Weatherballoon” says:
Episode Four: I snickered to myself the other day in Tescos when the automated check-out kept saying “Call for help” - I thought it sounded like a Russell T. Davies Dr Who villain. (Note for Americans – Tescos is the “supermarket eating Britain”). So not much surprise when the “Atmos” car's Sat-Nav kept saying “this is your final destination” before murdering the journalist at the beginning of the episode. Oh, and all the way through really. Mmm! Hokey! The episode starts with discovering Martha Jones left a mobile phone in the middle of the TARDIS that the Doctor didn't notice for months. Amazingly, it still has reception. Martha works for UNIT and in engaged, meaning the writer doesn't have to bother with dealing with left-over feelings for the Doctor. Her fiance is in Africa, meaning the writer doesn't have to bother with him either. The Atmos cars turn out to be under the control of the Sontarans. Shockingly, Sat-Nav turn out to be the only thing in the universe impervious to the Doctor's sonic screwdriver, so we might have a bit of a fight on our hands. Donna goes back to visit her family. Her oddly middle-class mother found the right bin for the car-keys, without any help from Billie Piper apparently. I'd been worrying about that. An evil clone of Martha Jones is created. Not sure why the Sontarans didn't just hypnotise her like the other humans working for them, but it might have something to do with finding a way for Freema to rise naked and dripping wet from a green bath. We know she is evil as she swans around looking smug and not passing on phone messages. The episode finishes with half the world's cars gassing their occupants and anyone standing in a Tesco's car-park. Good Stuff: The Doctor's Sat-Nav exploding. Very funny. The ending, with the Doctor standing helplessly by while Donna's grandad suffocates, is a damn dramatic cliff-hanger. The special-effects are, as ever, superb. For Talkbackers: The Medusa Cascade is mentioned. Again. RTD's foreshadowing could block out sunlight. There is a brief mention of some gay bloke living somewhere in England, which will enable furious homophobic talkbackers to complain about RTD's plot to transform sci-fi geeks into sodomites through TV sets. Huzzah!
“The Handsome 12th Doctor” says:
Whooo. That was ace. From the opening credits where it was wondrous to see Freema Agyeman's name flying through the vortex again. Though there followed a downturn when the name Helen Raynor appeared as the writer, bringing my mood down a bit. I believe Raynor is an excellent script editor as she's worked on some outstanding episodes. However, as a writer, she was largely responsible for the Daleks Take Manhattan story last year. Which, in all fairness, was shite. And if you can't tell a good tale using the Daleks then what chance would you have with the Sontarans? Since in my opinion the Sontarans weren't ever that great a "Classic Who" villain. There are far better ones they could have brought back. The Sea Devils, the Ice Warriors, the Happiness Patrol (I'm joking of course about the Sea Devils). My problem with the Sontarans in the past is their grand schemes were generally too simple and rubbish, and easy to defeat. Up until now that is. The Sontarans in tonight's ep were a much more worthy enemy than normal. And Helen Raynor may actually be a good writer (as long as she doesn't have a list of 'things to include' from RTD, which I've heard may be the reason her previous effort turned out so weak). She's taken the race of madly-war-fixated beings and given their plottings a touch of imagination. And in doing so has created a very well composed chunk of sci-fi complete with decent dialogue. My favourite lines being "Short answer, yes" and the Doctor's "Oh is that it?" In fact, the episode was everything that Daleks In Manhattan was not. Helen Raynor has redeemed herself a long way. Now it wasn't just the Sontarans that returned to Who tonight. UNIT are back. And so is Doctor Martha Jones. Either of those would be marvellous enough on their own but both together, cool as milk. Martha kicked the story into gear by phoning up the other Doctor and asking for his help. When he arrives it was pleasing to see that she's sooooo over him now. She's got a new fiance, new job, new jacket (thank god). The little exchanges between her and Donna amused me. So the Doctor, Martha, UNIT and (sometimes) Donna team up to take on the Sontarans led by General Staal, played by Christopher Ryan. Making him General Staal TheCoolPerson to give him his proper name. The action gradually built up till we found out the true purpose of the Atmos. Which we briefly saw three weeks ago on the taxi windscreen in "Partners In Crime". And if I'm the fourth or fifth reviewer to be posted here then I'll bet somebody else has already mentioned that. We really are geeks aren't we? It then led up to a suspenseful cliffhanger that isn't immediately obvious how they'll get out of. I would love for their solution to be clever next week. If it's anything along the lines of "The Doctor points the sonic screwdriver at something" then I'll be really narked. We'll find out in seven days. The trailer for the second part made it look mucho fun with lots of men-with-guns action and a big critical countdown. My only real gripe about tonight's show is that some of the colour schemes were a bit Joel Schumacher-y. On a more positive note it had the bonus of featuring Bernard Cribbins again. Back at the start of this season I was opposed to seeing another companion's family life but in this case, if it means a recurring role for Mr Cribbins, then I'm all for this. The bloke's a star.
“DJ Bollocks” says:
So within seconds you get the feeling this is infinitely better than what we've seen so far this series. Within minutes we've had our first death via Atmos sat nav system... as a journo same/different one from Episode 1 ?) makes a sharpish exit from The Rattigan Academy We catch up with Dr Martha before the credits and we discover soon after that Atmos Systems are an inbuilt Sat Nav system that also reduces car carbon emissions to zero as designed by child prodigy Luke Rattign - but that there have been nearly 10 deaths in the past few days with Atmos the only connection. To combat this Unit which Martha now works for have contained the factory where they are made and we go to a scene where two 'gung ho' Unit soldiers first meet the Sontarans in a room with a mysterious gloopy tank with a body of sorts... Nice Doctor and Mratha scene - after all the Doctorish indignation over the past few weeks we get a human affected by her adventures with the Doctor. Donna's been doing a bit of investigating herself and finds out that none of the Atmos workers have never had a sick day... We discover a bit more about the Rattigan Academy that was seen in the opening scene Donna and Martha have a chat about the effects on the family "He's like fire... Stand too close and people get burned..." The brain washed Unit soldiers are now under the influence of General Stahl and they "get to work". The Doctor decides to visit the Rattigan Academy whilst Donna decides to visit home (Medusa Cascade - has that been mentioned before ?) "You great big outer space dunce..." Martha checks out an Atmos worker and is met by the Unit soldiers - Donna goes back home and meets up with her Gramps Martha is captured and taken down to the bowels of the factory.. Donna and Bernard Cribbens have a cuppa "Nice One Fred Let's Have a Cuppa Tea" (2 points for the reference) Donna's mum is a bit of a cow... again... I'm getting the sense that Donna's adventures are ultimately going to be a one way trip - everything she's being told is slightly ominous... The Doctor goes to his "final destination" according to the Atmos sat nav - The Rattigan Academy to meet the child prodigy who's supposedly come up with all this amazing technology...Terraforming, biospheres you know the usual... In his front room we discover something that Ikea haven't yet designed - a teleport system and the Doctor briefly enters the Sontaran spaceship - The Sontarans come back through and the Corelain field - which nullifies certain weaponry is mentioned again... Stahl (the undefeated) unmasks... "He looks like a baked potato..." We are reminded of their wakness - a vent at back - and the Doctor highlights the weakness by hitting a tennis ball with perfect accuracy - a high jinks escape is made in the Atmos controlled jeep. Stahl and Rattigan go back to the Sontran spaceship. There are 400 million cars with the Atmo system - ooooh..... Back to Martha she's all tied up right now where she meets Commander Score the Bloodbringer. We also meet our friend in the gloopy tank again - and Martha looks like she's going to meet a little clone friend... Back on the Sontarans rather cheap looking ship. "War can never come too soon- Take your last look boy..." "The finest war in history and we weren't allowed to be a part of it..." Back to Earth and the Atmos factory and some pre watershed naked clonelike Marthaness... whilst the Doctor discovers an Atmos system weakness... "An ordinary death for such a emarkable enemy..." The jeep starts driving itself An exploding jeep ? No.... "Oh is that it ?" Martha clone "goes to work" The Doctor meets up with Donna The Doctor meets Gramps - Wilfred Mott The Doctor calls clone Martha but she doesn't pass the message on to UNIt - naughty clone.... The Doctor diengages the Atmos system in Gramps car but it alerts the Sontarans... Various Sontaran activity ensues and all the cars start emitting poisonous gas.... Tesco's will never be the same... "Now we begin let's get to work" Meanwhile Gramps is stuck in the car and looks like he's is peril as the Doctor and Donna can't open the car door ! And the Sontaran attack begins... To be continued.... Honestly - this is what Doctor Who means to me - some great directorial stunts and shots - the old school shots of the Sontaran hands first, taken straight from old Who - qv The Deadly Assassin. Stories for a broader audience - not just the kids. To be honest I wasn't expecting much after Helen Naylor's Daleks in Mahattan story last year, and there was nothing groundbreaking in there... However this didn't feel like a dragging 2 parter - and for the first time this season I can't wait til next week. Liked it a lot - wonder if that becasue there was less Tate ?

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Readers Talkback
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  • April 26, 2008, 5:13 p.m. CST

    not too bad

    by TinSpider

    that was the first episode of the Fourth series that I actually enjoyed... I used to Love Sontarans when i was a kid and Mike from the Young Ones was ace as the big bad. He had a proper old school villan voice going on. The only thing that ruined it for me was Tate, but thankfully she sat most of it out.

  • April 26, 2008, 5:34 p.m. CST

    it isn't a teleporter it is a transmat!

    by jccalhoun

    In the Whoverse they have transmats! <br><br>And how do Sontarans know what females are like? They don't go no women!

  • April 26, 2008, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Much better episode. Yes, I really did say that.....

    by Gabba-UK

    Maybe because the Sontarans are back and I liked them as bad guys when I was a nipper. It was also very Tate lite, and as a result she was not as intolerable as I normally find her (just). Plus Martha and that incredible arse of hers was back. And and top of that Bernard Cribbins was in it again, who I also used to think was great on kids TV when I was kid too. All in all a well written and better acted episode and kudos to Chris Ryan as the chief Sontaran. He was really, really good.

  • April 26, 2008, 6 p.m. CST

    Were the Sontarans always so short?

    by jccalhoun

    I don't remember them being short before.<br><br>I liked the episode. I even thought Donna finding the sick days was good. I didn't remember grandpa being the guy in the Christmas special so that was fun too. <br><br>I thought the engagement of Martha was not only out of nowhere since she wasn't engaged in Torchwood but also kind of lame.

  • April 26, 2008, 6:13 p.m. CST

    not a great episode

    by Cedar_Room

    but certainly much better than Daleks in Manhattan. Thinking about all the ways it could have gone wrong, they did a decent job. It just felt a bit slow in places like it was being stretched out as a two-parter when there wasn't necessarily enough story for it. Still pretty good though and I also liked the main Sontaran guy. Took me a while to place the voice as Mike from the Young Ones. Oh and in answer to jccalhoun I do believe that the Sontarans have always been short. All in all, not great (the Pompei episode is still the high point of the season so far for me) but another decent episode in what has so far been a very good series.

  • April 26, 2008, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Sontaran size

    by danowen

    They weren't *always* short aliens, but they worked better visually when they were, so new Who has kept that and ignored the times when they were regular-size in classic Who.

  • April 26, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST

    I wanna..

    by 69DUDE

    see Martha and Rose get naked together.

  • April 26, 2008, 6:53 p.m. CST


    by 69DUDE

    Given the greatness of Doctor Who, why hasn't there been a movie? A full on two-hour movie with Tennant as the Doctor would be awesome!! But no, we get fed runny shit like Three And Out.

  • April 26, 2008, 6:57 p.m. CST

    Don't call Ross a grunt!

    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    We like Ross!<br><br>Excellent episode, best of the season so far. Can't wait for next week. Super cool to see Freema's name in the opening credits again too.

  • April 26, 2008, 7:20 p.m. CST

    You mean besides the Cushing Who movies?

    by jccalhoun

  • April 26, 2008, 7:28 p.m. CST

    dr who film

    by danowen

    I'm pretty sure a DW film will be along soon enough. A modestly-budgeted thing (£15-20m) so it will make its money back based on European box-office, if nothing else. I know DW has a following in the US, but I'd predict it might only creep into the top 10 at #6 for a week (fuelled by Whovians) before a sharp drop-off. I just hope RTD doesn't write it :) He should be long gone by the time they get round to it, though. Likewise David Tennant, probably. But Steven Moffat would be a great choice, particularly as he'll have "Hollywood experience" after scripting Tintin by then.

  • April 26, 2008, 7:30 p.m. CST

    Really enjoying this series. Dr Who rocks!

    by Lloydywho

    Loving this series, was a wee bit apprehensive about Catherine Tate but she has been pretty good. I think Freema is a wee bit limited in her acting. RTD deserves some credit for rejuvinating the programme and making it the BBC's flag ship show. Long live New Who. Does anyone know if they are making a third series of Torchwood. Long time reader first time poster.

  • April 26, 2008, 7:43 p.m. CST


    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    Lloydywho, to answer your question I believe Torchwood is indeed getting a third series.

  • April 26, 2008, 7:48 p.m. CST


    by Lloydywho

    Thanks Kurutteru Yatsu, personally I think that is great news. Who would you lot like to see as the next Doctor? I think Dylan Moran would be a brilliant choice.

  • April 26, 2008, 8:07 p.m. CST

    allegedly freema's going to be on Torchwood

    by jccalhoun

    It is just a rumor but she is supposed to appear on it. The show won't be for "adults" any more and Captain Jack supposedly won't be in most of the episodes. If all that is true then it sounds like a massive retooling of the show.

  • They (the Producers and BBC)want Torchwood to be more of a companion to Doctor Who,(No pun intended)since next year's Doctor Who will only be 4 "Bank Holiday Specials".

  • April 26, 2008, 8:37 p.m. CST

    And, you are right........

    by axcel1

    Captain Jack won't be a regular anymore and Martha Jones does join Torchwood. Also, Mickey Smith joins Torchwood at the same time

  • April 26, 2008, 9:22 p.m. CST

    BBC America airs Torchwood

    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    So if you get that channel just check their schedule, otherwise downloads are the way to go. Actually, they're the way to go anyway since you don't have to wait to see the new episodes. Media Player Classic or VLC should have no problem playing anything you grab.<br><br>No Captain Jack? Is John Barrowman doing a Tennant and going back to theater for awhile? Are Ianto and Gwen going to stick around at least? I call for the magical resurrection of Tosh and her cleavage-y Asian excellence.

  • April 26, 2008, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Mickey the fucking idiot?

    by James_O'Nasty

    What the hell is he going to do in the Hub, fuck things up like Gwen in 1.2? And they should bronze Tosh's tits and hang them next to the gear door. Did Mori Naoko get implants?

  • April 26, 2008, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Almost forgot.

    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    On case anyone wants to go down (recent) memory lane PBS starts playing Series 2 tonight. In fact, Christmas Invasion is about to begin... right now!

  • April 26, 2008, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Yes, and fewer minorities and women in positions of power

    by RedCricketChase

    for Tricky Dick's dad's sake. :) Thanks for listening, RTD!

  • April 26, 2008, 9:50 p.m. CST

    They dumped Martha for Donna? Ugh.

    by pottymouth3000

  • April 26, 2008, 9:51 p.m. CST

    They dumped Martha for Donna? Ugh.

    by pottymouth3000

    I've heard Catherine Tate is a big deal in the UK but she's not much to look at. After Rose and Martha she's, well, I'm not tuning in for her. Are there only a few attractive actresses in England that can tell a joke?

  • April 26, 2008, 10 p.m. CST


    by vadakinX

  • April 26, 2008, 10:01 p.m. CST


    by vadakinX

    Should I post my Time War plot idea in here? Put it in the last talkback but only a few people saw it.

  • April 26, 2008, 10:14 p.m. CST

    Ok here it is again:

    by vadakinX

    This is a work in progress. Also, it's copied and pasted from the previous talkback. <p> Doctor Who: The Time War <p> The plot was simple, Davros had returned and regained control of the Daleks. Realising that The Doctor had foiled his plans time and again, Davros wanted to wipe him from existence. To do so, he needed an ancient Time Lord device that harnassed the temporal energy of the Time Vortex which he would use to phase Gallifrey out of all dimensions and time, so that they would never exist. It would create a self sustained paradox where the actions of the past still happened even though The Doctor wouldn't have existed to take part, while future (events after the device is used) events would never happen. <p> So Davros gathered an army and marched on Gallifrey...and he was utterly defeated and forced to retreat back to Skaro. The Time Lords then sent Romana to Skaro to arrest Davros. <p> But Davros was waiting. He infected Romana with a temporal regeneration virus, which made her cell structure break down and prevented her from regenerating to heal herself. <p> Another Time Lord (later knows as the Deserter) was in love with Romana and desperately tried to find a way to save her before she wasted away and died. Finding no help on Gallifrey, he went to Skaro to demand that Davros give him the cure. Davros agreed to give it to him, but only if he lead the Daleks to the temporal device. The Time Lord knew it went against everything that gallifrey stood for, that it went against temporal law and that he would be betraying his own people but he was so consumed with love and despair, he agreed to do it. <p> And so began the Time War. The Time Lords discovered what Davros was looking for, but in their arrogance, rather than destroying the temporal device, they divided it into pieces and hid it across space and time. What they didn't know was that they had been betrayed, and The Deserter was leading the Daleks across time to find the pieces. <p> After a long and brutal war, the final battle was on Arcadia , 3 billion years ago. It was a battle that decimated the Time Lords forces. Davros had found the final piece of the device and was ready to turn it on Gallifrey. <p> The Deserter, who thought that the Daleks wanted to conquer Gallifrey, not wipe it from existence, finally discovered the exact nature of his betrayal, and out of fear, he fled, taking his TARDIS to the centre of a black hole - a natural gateway between dimensions. Here, he would be safe from the effects of the temporal device. He tried to take Romana with him but she refused, wanting to stay and fight. <p> Although they hated to admit it, the Time Lords knew that The Doctor had experience dealing with The Daleks and so they reluctantly sent him to Skaro to stop their evil plan. <p> Davros wanted to wipe Gallifrey from existence, but the Daleks had bigger plans...they wanted to cause every world in the universe to disappear...leaving them alone, superior,the only life left in a universe that was ready to be reshaped. They turned on Davros, killing him and set the device to not only consume Gallifrey, but the entire universe. <p> The Doctor of course arrived to stop them, but he was too late. The Daleks had activated the device, which once started, could not shut down until its task was complete. The device was focused on an open gateway to the Time Vortex on Gallifrey (kind of like what the Master looks through to hear the drums), from which it would draw its energy. <p> And so the Doctor made the only choice he could...he wasn't able to stop the machine, but he could narrow its focus he set it to target an area a million miles surrounding Gallifrey and a million miles surrounding Skaro. The focus point and the origin point. The Doctor then flew his Tardis to the centrepoint between the two worlds to act as a conduit and contain the effects to the specified points. <p> And so Gallifrey and Skaro were wiped from existence and while the Tardis remained intact, the effects of the temporal radiation bombarding it caused the Doctor to regenerate. (from McGann to Eccleston) The Time War was ended and the Doctor was alone. The Time Lords drifted into legend, a distant memory long since forgotton. <p> In the year 4218 AD, the Doctor (Tennant) visits a psychiatric hospital on a world on the edge of the Human Empire. <p> While there, he discovers an old man, chained up and beaten half to death, claiming to be a Time Lord. To the Doctor, the man seems familiar but he can't place him as a Time Lord until the man seems to die, only to suddenly be reborn in a new body as he regenerates. This, we learn, is the aforementioned Deserter. <p> At first the Doctor is disgusted by him for betraying his people but The Deserter says he has been travelling through space and time, searching for a way to put things right and he believes he has found a way. <p> Now the original idea called on The Master to be released from the Tardis because he knew of a way to reverse the effects of the temporal device. <p> However, given the end of last season, I revised it a bit, so that the Master isn't needed. Essentially, the Doctor has to travel to the exact place and time where his Tardis served as a centrepoint for the devices effects and use that energy to reverse you get a strange Doctor Who paradox (one of many over the years) where that point in space and time serves to wipe Gallifrey from existence and at the same time, bring it back, a side effect being that Skaro is brought back too. It also allows for a moment between Tennant and McGann, and after McGann regenerates into Eccleston, he and Tennant also have a brief moment on screen together. The time line splits in two, creating a parallel universe, one in which Gallifrey is brought back and the other in which it's lost out of existence. It only lasts a few moments as the timeline with no Gallifrey collapses, leaving just a timeline where Gallifrey and Skaro are intact. The Doctor and the other "higher beings" remember everything, but the "lower beings" have no idea that gallifrey was ever gone. The sheer force of the events also causes the device to be destroyed so that in another twisted paradox, it never existed, yet the events still happened...except they didn't. Classic Who right there :P <p> Anyways, I've rambled on long enough...The Deserter goes to Gallifrey to face judgement and it is decided that he would be stripped of his regenerations...until we discover that he only had one left anyway after years of searching for a way to fix things. <p> Rather than simply remove his regeneration though, he asks that it be given to Romana so that she can regenerate and be healed from the disease that had threatened to kill her. The Time Lords warn him that this would kill him, but he doesn't care and he gives up his life to save Romana in a final act of redemption. <p> The story ends with the Time Lords giving him a lecture for his continued joyriding across space and time, interfering in the affairs of lesser beings. The Doctor of course, doesn't listen and asks Romana if she would like to go with him on a trip, for old times sake. <p> And that's essentially my Time War I just too geeky? Is it crap? Should I submit it? Should I get a day job? Answers on a postcard.... <p> --------------------

  • April 26, 2008, 10:38 p.m. CST

    good episode...

    by lynxpro

    Nice reveal that The Doctor commanded the Time Lords in the Time War... This felt like ClassicWho, but fast-paced and with a good budget. The Sontarans are now as good as they always should have been...too bad Bob Holmes isn't around to see them like this. The only way it could've been better is if the Brigadier would've had a cameo...

  • April 26, 2008, 10:39 p.m. CST

    anyone catch Jimmy Olsen w/a Sonic Screwdriver?

    by lynxpro

    Seriously, did anyone watch *Smallville* this week and see secret-agent Jimmy Olson open up that door with a Sonic Screwdriver? Seems that the *Smallville* gang are apparently fans of the good Doctor. It even had a blue LED glow on the front of the device just like the real thing...

  • April 26, 2008, 10:45 p.m. CST

    The First Doctor

    by vadakinX

    I also have a story about The First Doctor...since he's old when we first see him, a younger actor could be cast to show him earlier in his life. <p> It revolves around the idea of The Doctor being half human, which was learned in the McGann movie and while some people, including RTD, choose to ignore it, it does actually explain a lot. <p> The story starts on Gallifrey, where the Doctor grows up with his father, a Time Lord. His father's regenerations have been taken from him for violating gallifrayan law and mating with a lesser species (human), and so the young doctor is looked down upon by his peers for being half human. Even as a child, he is pretty much an outcast. After his father dies, The Doctor leaves gallifrey and goes to Earth, looking for his mother, and some place in the universe where he truly fits in. <p> He finds her in a hospital, old and dying. For her, 60 years have passed since she gave birth to her son, whereas for him, it's been half that, given Gallifreys relationship with time. He stays at her bedside, during which time he meets a young nurse, who he falls in love with. After his mother passes away, The Doctor marries the nurse and they settle down and have a daughter (who is one quarter Time Lord). The Doctor feels like he has found his place in the universe though he doesn't tell his wife and daughter of his true origin as a Time Lord. His daughter has a daughter of her own (Susan if memory serves, I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong) and the family have a simple, yet fulfilling life on Earth (around the late 1950s). <p> That is until a tragic event occurs when an enemy of the Time Lords tracks the Doctor down and, kills his entire family apart from his granddaughter. The Doctor holds his daughter in his arms, trying to get her to regenerate, since she is part Time Lord. But he never told her that so she doesn't know how to regenerate and dies in his arms (which makes The Masters death all the more poignant in the last season). <p> Finally, all that's left is The Doctor and his granddaughter....which leads into the very first season of Doctor Who. <p> I think it's the type of story you wouldn't tell until the very end of Doctor Who, in the very last season, whenever that is, since it would mean revealing The Doctor's real name. One of the ideas is that the reason his name is hidden is because it's part of a memory of deep pain within him regarding the death of his family. <p> It would also explain why he is so fascinated with humans, being half human himself. And it would go a long way towards explaining why he travels through time and space, and why he needs companions. He's looking to find that feeling of peace again, of having a place in the universe. He has companions to stop the loneliness, not from the Time War, but from whatever happened to him as the First Doctor before the show started. <p> Then again, if you hate the half human aspect, you'll hate this entire post. I'm off to sleep. I hope you'll leave your thoughts on both my Time War story and my First Doctor story, good or bad. I don't mind a bit of criticism as long as it's constructive. I'm always looking to improve.

  • April 27, 2008, 12:30 a.m. CST

    by The Last Dodo

    Well, that was pretty boring. I still say the Rome episode is the best of this series so far. Sometimes I wonder where the people writing these things get their plots. I understand the whole stereotypical "conquering alien horde" thing, but what was the point of the academy and the boy genius? Just hand the show over to Moffat already.

  • April 27, 2008, 1:09 a.m. CST

    First episode this season...

    by BiggusDickus

    ...that was worth watching! Top stuff, with Christopher Ryan absolutely walking away with the whole show as the brilliantly pompous General Staal.<p>Note to RTD - Watch this episode again, matey-boy, and then watch the Kylie Minogue Christmas one. Notice a difference? More of this sort of thing, please, and less of the other. <p>Classic old-school Who. Can't wait for next week!<p>PS - Martha's arse. Mmm...

  • April 27, 2008, 1:11 a.m. CST

    Better than I expected

    by earlfist

    Unusual.This is a rare occasion in a modern episode that this could of easily been an adventure from the classic series. A few Minor plot points. When did martha become an idiot and was the car at the end equipped with smash proof glass. Anyway for all you said tennant was off.well he isn't but let me throw another name in the hat (god forbid mcgann returns) sean pertwee.

  • April 27, 2008, 1:11 a.m. CST

    Oh, and vadakinX...

    by BiggusDickus

    Cup of tea, two paracetomol and a bit of a lie down, fella...

  • April 27, 2008, 1:36 a.m. CST

    jeebus the site is slow

    by Holodigm

    does anyone post on the weekends besides herc?

  • April 27, 2008, 2:37 a.m. CST

    Well done

    by Dreamfasting

    A very busy episode covering a lot of nostalgic bases, from a year old to several decades old. The directness and quick tactical reactions of the Sontarans translates well into the new speedy show format. Given they were one of the few races to directly attack the time lords in the old series, their absence from the time war needed explanation and I thought the brief lament over the disgrace of being "left out" was very well handled/acted (and since we fans also didn't get to see it either, I found it generated a surprising amount of empathy for the Sontarans). Now the question is whether the second half will manage to have a payoff that matches the setup. Unfortunately, there's a near-universal problem that sci-fi villains who are set up as tactical geniuses end up having to do something incredibly stupid to allow them to be defeated.

  • April 27, 2008, 2:58 a.m. CST

    Medusa cascade (spoiler)...

    by DimensionsPlural

    ...has been mentioned so often, it has to be this season's arc, right? I'm assuming it's a planet or location of sorts, and obviously one involved in the Time War from what the new-Master said. Being as the season climax is a dalek invasion of earth, I suppose it's fair to assume that the Medusa Cascade is some sort of storage facility for an army of daleks? To be accessed and freed by Davros? Hmm...time will tell! Another solid ep tonight btw in what is surely shaping up to be the best season yet. RTD to leave on a high?

  • April 27, 2008, 3:18 a.m. CST


    by carefulsilly

    Well, I'm afraid I spoke to soon, I was bored. Very bored. Martha is back and is instantly sidelined and appears to be more wooden than ever. I have no idea why people love her so much. I am sick and tired of the 'pink lighting effect equals aliens.' Sometimes I think it looks like a CBBC family drama. Cheap. And what sort of cliffhanger was that? Millions of people under threat! What do we get? Some people in a car park running around. So, I'm afraid yet again Helen Raynor has bored me to tears. Nice CGI though.

  • April 27, 2008, 3:54 a.m. CST

    Micky and Martha are joining Torchwood?

    by HarryBlackPotter

    Freaking cool, man. Love those characters. Captain John should also return - maybe taking over Torchwood from Captain Jack!!!

  • April 27, 2008, 4:15 a.m. CST

    Far better than you expect from Raynor

    by elab49

    I could be fair and assume it is simply and improvement in her writing, pacing and storytelling but the change is so dramatic I can only assume someone has watched her script a little more closely. Because - unlike the dire daleks in NY - this wasn't actually that bad.

  • April 27, 2008, 5:23 a.m. CST

    Medusa Cascade

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I still think the Medusa Cascade will turn out to be a red herring. RTD knows we're looking for the season arc now. My thinking is all these mentionings of Medusa are to distract us away from the real one. <p> I'm not sure what the real one could be yet. It may have something to do with the Doctor and Donna becoming much too noticed, too infamous. They were made into household gods in Pompeii and have an Ood song about them that "will be sung forever".

  • April 27, 2008, 5:34 a.m. CST

    vadakinX, the doctors origins story

    by Seph_J

    is alright, but it would be a bit soap operay - unless is was done as fucking well as the Human Nature/FamilyBlood story. <p> The Time War story however would be far cooler. Seems to tie everything up nicely. BUT would a Time Lord really just fall in love and forsake his entire race? I can't see it. And isn't it a bit too similar to Anakins turn to the darkside? Wouldn't it be more likely that the 'deserter' himself falls in love with a Thal, and uses a the watch (featured in series 3) to make himself one also. Thus allowing them to be together. That way he could not even know he was a Time Lord. However, he himself is haunted by dreams of his past life, in particular the location of a number of pieces of machinery, spread out at particular moments in time across the galaxy (a chance to use CG to place new people or objects into footage of events from classic who) and writes his own 'Journal of Impossible things', which holds the key to the location of the parts to your 'temporal device'. Davros, the evil bastard that he is takes 'deserter's lady friend and demands the journal be given to him in return for her. <p> This way, it is not a time lord betraying his entire race (which would seem unlikely), but merely a Thal who loves his woman trading a 'worthless' book about his dreams for the woman of his dreams. Not a difficult choice. Davros then uses the Journal as a map, and is able to reconstruct this machine. Everything else as you said, except that instead of 'realising they wanted to wipe Galifrey out completely' his watch is merely opened, returning his Time Lord memory to him, and making him aware of his betrayal. <p> VadakinX, what do ya think of my revisions?

  • April 27, 2008, 5:51 a.m. CST

    The Link This Season

    by carefulsilly

    I think the ink this season is the 'vanishing planets' and the mentions of Rose returning. Oh and the bees! Which, yes I know is real but I hear they are connected to the finale. I think we may have a death in the grand denoument. What do you lot think? Martha? Donna? Surely not Rose - nah never kill Rose!!!!

  • April 27, 2008, 5:51 a.m. CST


    by kwisatzhaderach

    Yeah, that's right, that's why it's the longest running and most successful sci-fi series in the world - because only 2 or 3 episodes are good. Idiot.

  • April 27, 2008, 5:55 a.m. CST


    by carefulsilly

    PS Surely the lone surviving Dalek has ventured back and found Davros and that's the Davros storyline? Isn't it? Or is Davros in the alternate universe? Or is he a HUGE red herring and isn't appearing at all! Though I hear rumbles of RED and BLACK Daleks...

  • April 27, 2008, 5:56 a.m. CST


    by kwisatzhaderach

    yeah there's a Red Dalek, don't know what it is though. I'm guessing you're right about the Caan storyline, not long til we find out.

  • April 27, 2008, 5:57 a.m. CST

    so what's UNIT?

    by punto

    do I need to watch Torchwood Season 2 before I watch this?

  • April 27, 2008, 6:10 a.m. CST

    Mobile phone

    by supertoyslast

    Didn't the Doctor give Martha a phone with which to contact him at the end of the third series? Anyone who says "amazingly it still gets reception" obviously hasn't seen the second episode from series one where the Doctor alters Rose's phone.

  • April 27, 2008, 6:20 a.m. CST

    I love Doctor Who but...

    by ladyangie

    I didn't really feel this episode. I think its because we were given such good stories last year, I was hoping for something amazing. And as for Donna finding an empty 'sick days' folder, why would they have a folder if no-one ever got sick? Rattigan annoyed me and the Sontarans weren't scary in the slightest. Would have been scarier with limited dialogue methinks.Plus the bit where the doctor breaks the teleport with his sonic screwdriver just for the sontaran to fix it with a little poke of whatever he had...what's the point. Too easy. Anyway that's my moan over and on the plus side, Martha was back and the good cliff hanger ending gives me hope that part two will be a lot better!

  • April 27, 2008, 6:47 a.m. CST

    Dr Who doing what Dr Who does BEST !

    by RobinP

    This season just gets better and better. Something that I didn't feel about the last series until I saw them all a second time over xmas. This episode, in particular was strong - we had a piece of present day technology (sat navs) that we can relate to, being used for a sinister purpose. Cue paranoia (just like I haven't looked at my bluetooth in quite the same way since the Cyberman 2 parter). Globl concerns about fuel emmissions etc - now used as a tool for alien conquest. This is what the reinvented series has done best. Take our present day concerns and ever increasing dependence on personal gadgetry and use them as a launch pad for a great story. Surely any concerns about Catherine Tate must now be laid to rest ?

  • April 27, 2008, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Love Torchwood but...

    by JButlersRevenge

    the whole Jack/Gray/Captain John thing and the way it played out in finale really fucked up what could have been an amazing episode, it lessened the impact of Tosh's death. It sucked. Why couldn't they get ride of that whingy bitch Gwen? Or Rhys? The Sun newspaper here in the UK said that Harriet Jones would be returning and gave away a major spoiler, but they have been wrong in the past so I am wondering if it'll play out they way they say it will? Last years big bad was supposed to be the Rani according to them. It would be bullshit if Donna turned out to be her.

  • April 27, 2008, 7:20 a.m. CST

    RE: site is slow

    by palewook

    yes they post less now than in years past. you learn to accept aicn for what it is or you will descend into a forum troll that posts negative stuff.. <p> like omg wheres the reaper TB its been back on for 2 weeks.. <P> no love for dexter? <p> etc etc

  • April 27, 2008, 7:56 a.m. CST

    I'm afraid my dislike for Tate is going to remain high...

    by Gabba-UK

    Its a bit like tomatoes. It doesn't matter how many I'd be made to eat, I'll still not like them. In the same way it doesn't matter how many hours of Tate you force me to watch, or how 'good' she may or may not get, I will forever be fighting the urge to punch the screen when shes on it. Some people just set your teeth on edge and for me she's one of them. I can assure you I have not liked her, ever. If you wanted real vitriol and bile, they'd just have to announce that, say, Cilla Black was guest staring or Jeremy Kyle, then I'd go postal.

  • April 27, 2008, 8:02 a.m. CST


    by Lemming

    UNIT are from the old Who series. The John Pertwee era specifically.

  • April 27, 2008, 8:26 a.m. CST


    by carefulsilly

    Tell me more about the Red Dalek!!!!! OIs it true? Oh I'm a geek supreme!

  • April 27, 2008, 8:57 a.m. CST

    tater haters

    by dang2010

    I can see why people hate Tate now. Martha was really hot. And she is kind of abrasive. I like how she told off the General. I LOVED her moment with the doctor, when she let him blubber on about how she was leaving. The episode was a little bland, though. Why would the boy genius let aliens attack the earth. All those IQ points and no common sense. Also, they go to great lengths to show Martha being a badass, then she acts like an idiot and lets them clone her. I loved clone Martha though. The episode will only be redeemed for me if Donna picks up a rock and smashes the car window next week. Also, I'm telling you, the season is going to end with Donna breaking the rules and changing time, probably to save someone like the Doctor. Her learning to drive the Tardis and veering "way to close to the 1980s" was foreshadowing. And it will only make people hate her more.

  • April 27, 2008, 9:09 a.m. CST

    No Tate Hate this week, not for me.

    by gotilk

    I thought she was perfect this time out and she's really starting to win me over. If they kill her family, I'll be bummed.

  • April 27, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST


    by Demon Disco

    Okay. Here's a rundown of what's doing the rounds re: the end of the series. Some may turn out to be true and, well, some not. Tread carefully! 1. RTD said in The Radio Times here in the UK that episode 12 has not had it's title revealed yet as it's a massive spoiler for the final episode. 2. Donna is killed in the series finale. 3. Rose is somehow responsible for the planets and bees disappearing because of her passing between dimensions. (This has also lead to the speculation that the Chritmas Special and subsequent bank holiday specials next year involve a story-arc about alternate universes encroaching on our own. Which would certainly explain why photos of the alt-universe Cybermen are stomping around Dickensian London in the snow are turning up in our press). 4. Captain Jack turns up with Ianto and Gwen from Torchwood and they leave the series with Martha and Mickey - all in time for the newly revamped Torchwood Season 3 to take the place of regular Who next year. 5. The Radio Times (again) has also hinted that the final episode features The Vault and The Children of Time. Whatever the fuck they are. 6. Davros is indeed back, with newly tinkered with Daleks including some with (apparently) claws (!) and legs (!!). Cue at least red daleks then. 7. Donna is The Rani. Yeah, it's outlandish, but it's still out there... To me, some of this seems to ring true. Other bits, well, not so much. But it's SO fucking exciting. The sad thing is there's only 9 eps left to go...

  • April 27, 2008, 10:30 a.m. CST

    I'm no fan of the TV movie either but...

    by Sadat Quoraishi

    it would appear to be canon as McGann's face was depicted amongst some of the previous doctors' in the Family of Blood two-parter.

  • April 27, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Paul McGann is one of the regenerations...

    by Kelvington

    and I would love for them to bring him in and do a series of Time War episodes, but the half human thing always did bother me a bit. <P><P> I hope they continue to ignore that bit, or write it off with a funny line, like they did with the Master being his brother.

  • April 27, 2008, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Anyone remember 'The Three Doctors'?

    by BiggusDickus

    From back in Pertwee's day, when the Doctor had to join forces with his previous incarnations to defeat rogur TimeLord 'Omega'?<p>I was only an egg, but I remember thinking that was a really great idea. How about we have something like this again, with McGann, Ecclestone and Tennant? How cool would that be?

  • April 27, 2008, 11:30 a.m. CST

    'rogur' = 'rogue'.

    by BiggusDickus

    New spelling system I'm trying. Sheesh...

  • April 27, 2008, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Half Human Thing

    by Lloydywho

    Well apparently the half human comment has been put down to post regenerative stress disorder or something like that. Would love to have Paul McGann back as the Doctor. Re Watched last nights episode on the tinternet and it is definatley better the second time round. Liked it the first time though. Looking forward to next week, this series so far is brilliant. Rreally enjoying it, that is why I watch it. I don't like snooker so don't watch that and I certainly don't post on snooker forums about how much I don't like it. Hope I have made my point.

  • April 27, 2008, 11:57 a.m. CST

    the TV Movie is canon...

    by lynxpro

    Written by a Brit, directed by a Brit, produced by a Brit, starring a Brit, script approved by the BBC, and amongst the production companies in addition to Fox and (NBC) Universal were the BBC and BBC Worldwide, but was shot in Vancouver B.C. Stop referring to it as the "Americanisation" of the franchise. If anything, it showed how to do Doctor Who with a decent budget, and fantastic production values...which the new series has not matched, truth be told. But then again, each episode of NewWho has not had an individual budget of $5 million (in 1995 American dollars). Paul McGann got rooked by not having been asked to reprise the role in favor of Christopher Eccleston who did not commit to more than one series (while McGann had signed on for 5 had the TV Movie brought the show back). I like Tennant in the role, but I want a multi-Doc episode with him and McGann, or if Tennant wants to leave the role, bring back Paul. As for The Doctor's half-humanness, it makes sense. I grew up watching the classic series and I always thought he was either half-human, Rassilon, or both.

  • April 27, 2008, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Long winded reviews much?

    by Smashing

    I skipped them all, try and be more concise in future. <P> No one is denying that reviews can be interesting but when they become more about the reviewer than the episode you have def missed the point.

  • April 27, 2008, 12:36 p.m. CST

    TV Movie

    by Lloydywho

    The TV movie was ok, the production values were high, however the story was generally poor. I agree that Paul McGann is excellent as the Doctor. It is a shame that they didn't continue with his story. New Who hass much better stories is generally all round better than the TV movie even the much maligned Love and Monsters has a better story than the TV movie. The only things that the TV movie had going for it was Paul McGann, a regeneration, Eric Roberts (although the snake thingy was daft) and a kick ass TARDIS. Ok perhaps Love and Monsters isn't better than the TV movis but it is on par. New who is amazing. Long may it continue. Multiple Dr episode would be great. Perhaps even a parallel universe multi Doc story, bring back those still alive like they had never regenerated. That would be interesting. I would love a Tennant McGann and Eccleston story though. That would be just great. Who should be the next Doc? Robert Carlisle has been rumoured, could be good. I think either Richard Coyle or the Amazing Dylan Moran

  • April 27, 2008, 12:48 p.m. CST

    I still wish they'd do my idea

    by Purgatori

    and when Tennant does decide to leave cause the Doctor to have to retrogenerate back to McGann for some reason. That way they could give him some actual time to do his Doctor and do it justice.

  • April 27, 2008, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Still the worst show ever created

    by Razorback

    How do you fuckheads enjoy this piece of shit? I hate every person who likes this show. Fuck off (this response may have been a little unnecessary and uncalled for).

  • April 27, 2008, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Sontaran stratagem

    by mummydaddy

    having read most of the user reviews for 4.3 of Dr. Who, I have to say that despite Tate's lack of appearance in said episode may have been what made it better, when she does appear not once did I feel as annoyed as usual. Like many, I was distraught to hear that Ms Tate was to be the new assistant, but as the series goes on, she seems to be less annoying. Tennant is, in my eyes the best Doctor ever (Yes I can hear cries of Pertwee or Baker from my fellow fans). Still curious about the Billie Piper appearance (and upcoming final multi-episode storyline), An interesting idea came to me (from a friend). Cast your mind back to the last episode of the last series where a female hand pick up the Master's ring.... Is Billie Piper the new Master? Or if it is Rose, is her dimension jumping going to be the cause of the Daleks and Cybermen return.. Oh and why has gold not been used on the cybermen (Fatal allergy to the metal men according to the storyline where Adric was killed). Just one more niggle, if the "NEW Dr. Who" is a continuation of the older version, then why have we not seen the transformation from McGann to Ecclestone. I lied, another niggle. Why is Peter Cushing's Doctor completely ignored?

  • April 27, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Robert Carlisle?

    by gotilk

    Wow! Now that would be interesting. In a good way.

  • April 27, 2008, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Not Robert Carlisle!

    by BiggusDickus

    Not yet, anyway. We've got a short-arsed Scotsman at the moment with Tennant, we don't need another one straight after.<p>Bill Nighy, please!

  • April 27, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Rick Santorum?

    by BadMrWonka

    the bigoted idiot who doesn't believe in global warming?

  • April 27, 2008, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Why is Cushing ignored?...

    by Kelvington

    Cushing is ignored in Who cannon, just like the Turkish Star Trek is ignored by Trek Cannon. The films were sort of bastardized version of the show, containing only sparse elements of the actual Doctor Who mythos. Yes, he was called The Doctor (and Grandpa), yes there was a blue box that was marginally bigger on the inside than on the outside, and yes there were several Daleks, who "got blowed up real good". Aside from that it had nothing to do with Doctor Who. It would be like making a movie called Moby Dick, that just happens to have an aquarium in one of the scenes with a large white fish in it, and if Ishmael was a dinner that was ordered off the menu at a fish and chips place. I think the Doctor might have even been a human in the films, it's been so long ago, I can't remember. <P><P> As for the regeneration from Paul to CE, it appears to have happened off screen, just before he shows up in the episode Rose, since he catches a glimpse of himself in a mirror and talks about it for a moment. I've sort of assumed that the Time War ended, he got some intel about the Autons, and was mortally wounded trying to get to Earth to stop them, only having time to grab a U-boat captains outfit, McGann outfit was burned off or something, and never caught a look at himself in a mirror. I think you could have a series with Paul in it, and not even do a retro-regeneration, just call it Doctor Who and say we are giving David a few years off to relax and show the events that lead up to and include the timewar. I think the fans would be happy as hell over that. <P><P> On the Master's ring front, we know from the commentary that it was a Production Assistant who picked up the ring, so I wouldn't be holding out hope for a Master's return or Rani anytime soon. On the gold issue with the Cybermen, I think that was a flaw in the original Cybermen who were from Earth's twin planet Mondas (sp), and I never got the feeling that these update Cybermen were effected by gold. I could be wrong though. <P><P> Finally a nit of my own. I didn't mention this in my review since it's more of a general rant, but... And this just isn't in Doctor Who, but most modern Sci-Fi, the concept of controlling cars remotely, it's wicked hard, it requires cables and wires and some wild technology that would be far and above the installation of a simple ATMOS ATMOS, Tom Tom like device. Why does no one think to just shut the car off? Causing a car to turn or shift gears, by it self, is a monumental task, have we learned nothing from Herbie? Just watch some Mythbusters and you will get an idea of how much goes into the idea of remotely controlling a car. Shooting poison gas is one thing, driving you into the river is another entirely. I hated it in Doctor Who and a hundred other shows and movies that rely on it. <P><P> PS. Razorback you actually had me laugh out loud there with your comment.

  • April 27, 2008, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Hey Doctor Who fans!!!

    by wackybantha

    I have never ssen any episode of any of the Doctors EVER!!! I have always wanted to check it out. My question: If I start to watch the current version, can I get into it and enjoy it even though I have never seen any of the previous Doctors? Or will I be lost and confused?

  • April 27, 2008, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Never watched the old series...

    by Ambush_Bug

    ...but the new one, starting with Eccleston, has been some of the best enjoyable serialized sci-fi I've ever watched. Too bad David Tennant is supposed to be leaving after this season, I can't see it being as good without him (but, then again, that's what I thought when Eccleston left after s1.)

  • April 27, 2008, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Want a classic villian?

    by Hookman

    Two words: Black Gaurdian

  • April 27, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    ATMOS device: Suck on that, Ed Begley Jr & NBC-Universal!

    by MrMysteryGuest

  • April 27, 2008, 2:53 p.m. CST

    I like the longer reviews

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I don't see them as long winded. Ok, I may be biased as mine was one of them this week. But last week when I didn't submit one I still enjoyed reading the detailed views of others. <p>Saying that though, next week's ought to be shorter since we've covered a lot of ground already about this particular story.

  • April 27, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST


    by vadakinX

    Didn't mean to start a canon war :P <p> Am I the only one who likes the half-human aspect though? It does actually help to explain a lot about the Doctor and it does make sense if you look at the whole history of the show. <p> RTD can ignore it if he wants. He can choose not to mention it or whatever, but it's still canon and will be long after he has left the show. <p> As far as reviews go...there's a difference between a review of an episode and what is effectively a written transcript of the show, spoiling the entire episode for those who haven't seen it with the occasional comment to make it seem more like a review and less like a summary.

  • April 27, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST

    What do you mean revert to damsel in distress

    by CrichtonAstronut

    I don't remember Martha ever being in the damsel in distress catagory. The times she's needed a save like in 42 or gridlock, were situations in which no human could have gotten out, and she never really paniced in those. She had a brilliant turn on Torchwood. So I hope the do as well here. I do like that there wasn't much cattiness between Donna and Martha, I think they're both too mature for that. And if done right, I'd love to see her interaction with Tennate, being in a different place emotionally. And it sounds from like this is off to a great start.

  • April 27, 2008, 3:53 p.m. CST

    UNIT is from the original series. Especially

    by CrichtonAstronut

    the Pertwee era under the Command of brigadier General Lethbridge Stewart. It's a United Nations task force against alien threats.

  • April 27, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST


    by lynxpro

    Just rent the DVDs through Netflix starting with Series 1 (Series 4 is being televised now). Some PBS stations are starting to televise Series 1 and 2 now. Otherwise, BBC America and SciFi are showing those episodes. SciFi HD is also showing them and apparently "upscaling" them to pseudo HD resolution. I upscaled a Series 3 DVD on my PS3 and it looked respectable. Not having watched the original series won't be a handicap, but it gives you a more rounded experience. You can catch the old episodes on DVD, and sometimes some of them have been uploaded on YouTube but it looks like they've been removing such content once the BBC tips them off.

  • April 27, 2008, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Kelvington-- Re: Controlling cars.

    by ZeroCorpse

    FORCE FIELD. <p> Seriously, in Doctor Who you could explain it away as a sort of force field/tractor beam sort of thing. It wasn't taking control of gears or pistons-- It was merely controlling the whole vehicle in a sort of telekinetic way. <p> Complications solved. Next problem?

  • April 27, 2008, 4:35 p.m. CST

    OK ZeroCorpse, I'll give you that... well played.

    by Kelvington

    But we did see the gear shift move by itself in the first death, and that's a mighty small force field. But I like the way you think.

  • April 27, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST


    by ZeroCorpse

    If you have Netflix, the new Doctor Who series is available on the Instant Watch feature. You don't even need to rent them You can watch on your PC.

  • April 27, 2008, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Dr Who

    by Lloydywho

    I have been a fan of this show all my life and grew up watching it and classic star trek. Dr Who was always my favourite, (personal preference don't have a go). I admit in the 80's the show lost its way and some of the stories were not up too par. However I love New Who it is great. Seriously if you don't like it don't watch it. Simple then you can avoid all the unnecessary grief. Love the idea of retrogeneration (love that word, well done) return of Paul McGann or go back even further we could have the return of Sly McCoy! I think that the Candyman is behind everything even RTD. Mark my words evil has a sweet tooth

  • April 27, 2008, 4:49 p.m. CST

    by davidaball

    Watching Tennant enjoying himself playing The Doctor is damn good fun. And Donna is the best compantion for ages, certainly not eye candy but at least she has spark of personality and isn't just a Rose clone as Martha was. I hope she survives the series. <p> As for the episode it was a bit hit and miss we've got another evil corporation with a death in the pre titles sequence. (smash the back window you fool.)<br> The worst soldiers ever, who when they meet an Alien call him names and then get shot in the leg.Who trianed them? Certainly not Lethbrige Stewart.<br> Some of the plotting is juvenile why did the sat nav have to do the opposite of whatever The Doctor said? loved the huge explosion aftwerwards mind.<p> Great comedy lines entertaining and well played.<p> I'm enjoying the way the new series has used new technology in the new series. Ear pods for the cybermen, Diet pills, now sat Nav that kills you. and reduces your carbon footprint.<p> Great performance from the Sontaran Commander and The Doctor just sort out the plotting so I don't have to shout at the TV anymore.

  • April 27, 2008, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Turkish Star Trek

    by davidaball

    Thanks for mentioning this Just checking it out on You Tube

  • April 27, 2008, 11:04 p.m. CST


    by INWOsuxRED

    You want the other Moffat episodes then. The Girl in the Fireplace is one. Then there is a two parter, Empty Child and The Doctor Dances (I think). There have been other good ones, but those are probably the best.

  • April 27, 2008, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Break. The. Fucking. Window.

    by Mickey The Idiot

    Or go waltzing off into the middle of the street for the iconic long raincoat on smoggy day Doctor cliffhanger shot. No, dumbass, JUST BREAK THE FUCKING WINDOW. (If you saw it, you know what I mean).

  • April 27, 2008, 11:06 p.m. CST

    Ashok0 part 2

    by INWOsuxRED

    More MOTW, but they do throw in some forshadowing in episodes that usually relates to the season finales.

  • April 27, 2008, 11:07 p.m. CST

    re: Ashok0

    by Dreamfasting

    The new who is not quite one or the other. The structure is fairly uniform though: a season premiere episode, then alternating between a pair of standalone episodes followed by a 2-parter. The final 2-parter always a heavily foreshadowed "epic" including elements drawn from across the year. Although it's fun to watch the year-long character development and hints of things to come, the stories themselves are written to stand alone. "Blink" may spoil you a little as I feel it is one of the best episodes the series has ever done. Others I'd recommend include: "Dalek" from the 1st season of the revival, "The Girl in the Fireplace" from the 2nd, "Human Nature/Family of Blood" from the 3rd and "The Fires of Pompeii" from the current season. The season finales are fun, but have tended to be a little over-the-top in their efforts to be epic.

  • April 28, 2008, 12:38 a.m. CST

    All this talk of McGann

    by SirFlibble

    The best bet IMO would have been to do a series called "The 8th Doctor" or "Doctor Who: Time War" in replace of the regular series next year. The break would have been perfect for a replacement filler season.

  • April 28, 2008, 1 a.m. CST

    Speaking of McGann

    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    I finished watching the TV movie not two minutes ago. What an unbelievable mess. Not at all surprised it wasn't picked up based off that. Eric Roberts? WTF. Glad I missed it the first time around, I might not have given the new series a chance when it started airing on PBS. Having said that, to see McGann in some *real* Who adventures would be cool, he did all right considering he had so very, *very* little to work with.

  • April 28, 2008, 1:44 a.m. CST

    that's why we like McGann...

    by lynxpro

    The guy barely was on-screen, but you had a glimpse of what could be (could have been)...the guy could've been better than even Tom Baker. He still has a chance...although ever fleeting as long as RTD remains producer.

  • April 28, 2008, 1:45 a.m. CST


    by lynxpro

    Eric Roberts was a better Master than John Simm turned out to be. Sorry 2 burst the bubble.

  • April 28, 2008, 2:51 a.m. CST

    If that's true...

    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    And Eric Roberts was better in the role than John Simm, then I don't want to go back and see any old Master episodes because the character must not be as good as I'd been led to believe.

  • April 28, 2008, 3:41 a.m. CST

    another resounding "meh"

    by Lost Jarv

    although I did laugh when the soldier called the sontaran "Mr. Potato Head" because my wife had just done the same.

  • April 28, 2008, 3:53 a.m. CST

    BiggusDickus: There is also a Five Doctors...

    by Lemming


  • April 28, 2008, 7:22 a.m. CST

    U.N.I.T. & Torchwood

    by Hagakure

    Tell me again what the difference is between the two organizations? They both seem to be dealing with Alien threats. The opening to Torchwood makes the claim of being "Beyond the Government" but I am not really getting a sense of that.

  • April 28, 2008, 8:29 a.m. CST

    Torchwood was beyond the government

    by Seph_J

    when it was established... right up until the 'Canary Wharf' incident... at which point it kinda went 'underground' and became the Torchwood that we know from the TV series. <p> It used to be beyond the government. <p> And incase RTD is watching, add my name to the list of people who would definately watch a Paul McGann series called 'The 8th Doctor', or 'The Time War' (as flibble said). Blooming marvelous idea.

  • April 28, 2008, 8:29 a.m. CST

    Torchwood was a British enitity and had been built

    by CrichtonAstronut

    to scavange alien hardware to protect Britain, but later in the 21st century, before Canary Warf they expanded their mission toward using alien technology to rebuild the British Empire. After the Torchwood branch in London was destroyed taking most of the leadership of the organization, and the Cardiff branch leader killed himself and his team handing the Hub over to Jack, Jack took advantage of the contacts and acquired technology but disavowed loyalty to any government organizatio, including the British government or the UN. Basically Torchwood is now just Jack and his team. UNIT was special taskforce assigned by the United Nations to deal with the growing frequency of alien invasions after the '70s. they have the same kind of mission but UNIT is more official operates with a few more limitations and beauracracy and with a lot more man power. UNIT is also from the orginal series, where Pertwee's Doctor was confined to Earth by the Timelords, and Brigader Lethbridge Stewart, then in command of UNIT hired him on as the UNIT scientific advisor. Torchwood was RTD's own creation and only appears in the new Who cannon.

  • April 28, 2008, 8:50 a.m. CST

    I'm quite relieved again. Based on some of the

    by CrichtonAstronut

    posts I was afraid that they were gonna try to paint Martha as kind of a bitch to sell some antimilitary message, but they did indeed stay true to her character and even had her rightly shoot the Doctor down when he was getting a little too selfrighteous about guns. she's kind enough not to recall the death tole he's mounted on his shoulders without using a gun, which I might have been tempted to do. And while much was made in about her warning to Donna coming off as ungrateful, having finally seen that scene, it really didn't come off that way and I do think se was just saying that Donna should be fair to her family and tell them because it'll effect them whether Donna wants it to or not, though hopefully not the way it effected Martha's. Martha's family did get sort of a bum deal there. Jackie got her dead husband back, and her daughter and her daughter's old boyfriend who looked after her while her daughter was away. Martha's family got imprisoned and tortured, though her brother escaped and anything tht happen to him in the year that wasn't would have been fogotten since he wasn't on the Carrier when time turned back. Just likeher boyfriend got to be alive again. The pacing and plot of this really does read like a Pertwee era episode, right up to the cliffhanger ending and the large scale Earth based disaster, born of some scientific conceit. While I did like the Dalek two parter, and thought it had some fun moments, this was indeed better.

  • April 28, 2008, 8:59 a.m. CST


    by Hagakure

    I didn't know if I missed an explanation somewhere of how Torchwood is still in operation. The Canary Warf incident showed Torchwood was a pretty high-tech operation. Since watching the flashback episode of Torchwood (showing how everyone joined the team) it just seems that with the main Torchwood branch gone, five people sitting in a basement isn't much protection in terms of an alien attack. I would have thought U.N.I.T. would go in and close them down or at least absorb them as a new branch of U.N.I.T. Or maybe I am just thinking about this too much.

  • April 28, 2008, 9:19 a.m. CST

    I laughed when the soldier said, "What are you

    by CrichtonAstronut

    going to do, shoot bite my ankles and he responds by shooting his legs.

  • April 28, 2008, 9:25 a.m. CST


    by BiggusDickus

    I like the cut of your jib, sir!<p>Ok, we'll have Tennant, Ecclestone, McGann McCoy and...oo-er, Colin Baker is about thirty stone now, isn't he?<p>What is he eats his other incarnations?

  • April 28, 2008, 9:44 a.m. CST

    I enjoyed the Episode...

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I can't help but feel that they are prepping us for a more greater exposition of the Time War...

  • April 28, 2008, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Actually, the Doctor does mention them all being

    by CrichtonAstronut

    a clone race. Not reproducing sexually. So I suppose that was the Sontaran's effort to use Earth culture stereotypes to make his point.

  • April 28, 2008, 9:57 a.m. CST

    Kurutteru Yatsu

    by lynxpro

    The Master is a great character if done properly. Roger Delgado was awesome as the original version, but his real-life tragic death caused them to mothball the character; it also impacted Jon Pertwee so much (they were friends) that he decided to leave the show. The Master was later revived near the end of Tom Baker's 7 year stint as The Doctor, but he was revealed to be nearly skeletal and desperate to gain a new set of regenerations since he was on his 13th and final life. He stole the body of the Trakenite named Tremas and thus cheated death. This version of The Master was played by the late Anthony Ainley, who through no fault of his own, was instructed to ham it up most of the time on-screen. He had the role until the cancelation of the original show in 1989; he also portrayed the character in the CDROM adventure in the mid-nineties. But the character got "exterminated" in the beginning of the TV Movie, and stole the body of Bruce the ambulance driver (Eric Roberts) and conspired to steal The Doctor's remaining regenerations. Roberts was told to ham it up, but he was also the most menacing portrayal up until the brief portrayal by Derek Jacobi. Once he regenerated into John Simm's version, it went all Caesar Romero Joker'esque in many peoples opinions. I would rate them as Jacobi>Roberts>Delgado>Pratt/Beavers>Ainley>Simm.

  • April 28, 2008, 10:08 a.m. CST

    I love the idea of Martha on Torchwood

    by CrichtonAstronut

    she was awesome on her guest spot. She really fit in with the team. I am sorry to see Tosh go, escpecially since it seems to have been done t maintain the bopy girl ratio. I like Mickey Smith, but I think Tosh and Martha would have got on better. And Tosh has been a more interesting character anyway. Also, hate that Jack's not gonna be around moree, and I'm not sold on themore family friendly Torchwood. The thing I like about season 3s Doctor Whos was that they were darker and more mature than seasons one and two.

  • April 28, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST

    I liked the John Simm Master. It was less, I'm so

    by CrichtonAstronut

    evil. And more I'm really a fucked up nutter. Derek jacodi's was the best by far. that one gave me chills, scarier than his Dead Again character. I mean this dude's Derek Jacobi, nuff said. But I would put John simm's Master up against any of the clasic series, even up to Delgado's level, and he was something special. Eric Robert's, I liked him in other things, but to me he was never really the master, his character was the American bastardization of the Master. It wasn't his fault, it was just written as the stadard bad guy cliche, could've been any alien monster, body snatcher, let's look menacing. Never really got a proper since of the common history that pertwee and Delgato had or that Tennate and Jacobi and Simm had.

  • April 28, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST

    I love the Sontaran's and really liked the way

    by CrichtonAstronut

    they've been portayed here. Though I do think they'd be scarier if they were taller, as I beleive they were in the Sontaran Experiment and The Time Warrior.

  • April 28, 2008, 10:50 a.m. CST

    I didn't Hate simm as the master

    by Lost Jarv

    but I did hate the episode with a vengeance. <P>It was one of the worst concluding episodes ever- the Dr the house elf, shit musical number, terrible reset button, awful "you can't stop them thinking plan" and a dismal whine from Martha to finish. <P>Shocking- and the Toclafane were shit as well

  • April 28, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Completely agree with the above

    by davidaball

    How they could go from the brilliant "Parting of the ways" in season 2 to that pile of crap. <p> My low point was when the Doctor became Jesus, floated across the room and Forgave the Master for slaughtering mankind. Nice!<br> And the 1 year later stollen fron Galactica just screamed RESET! from the start.

  • April 28, 2008, 11:07 a.m. CST

    oh god, I'd forgotten Jesus floating across the room

    by Lost Jarv

    I think my mind had blanked it out. <P>I just grew more and more incredulous at the lameness of it. <p>Awful, it represented the nadir of RTD's writing and he carried on at that level with that shit Voyage of The Damned. <P>Thankfully this series is so far miles ahead of those.

  • April 28, 2008, 11:09 a.m. CST

    I hate the idea of Martha on Torchwood full time

    by Lost Jarv

    How long before she is anally violated by bug people from the planet "meh" whilst Captain Jack wanks into a cup?

  • April 28, 2008, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Guess you missed the more family friendly note

    by CrichtonAstronut

    unless, you count anal violation and cup wanking as more family frienbdly. BTW is there like an HBO version of this series missing, because I don't really any scene like that, in the past two seasons, is that the UK version. Since you've said you don't watch it that much I'm just wondering how you've managed to catch more sex content in the few you've watched than I have watching the every episode on BBCA.

  • April 28, 2008, 11:30 a.m. CST

    Torchwood Next Season

    by Hagakure

    I know Doctor Who is being reduced to three movie specials next year. Does the same go for Torchwood (With Mickey and Martha apparantly joining the team) or is Torchwood going to be a full season?

  • April 28, 2008, 11:33 a.m. CST

    I think the current Torchwood is mainly about

    by CrichtonAstronut

    watching watching the Rift in Cardiff. And making sure the stuff and aliens it spits out don't do too much damage.

  • April 28, 2008, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Don't know hope it will be a full season.

    by CrichtonAstronut

  • April 28, 2008, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Actually, the Doctor I beleive the Doctor mentioned

    by CrichtonAstronut

    UNIT in the season one two parter with the Slitheen. And I think those were UNIT soldiers he was taking charge of when they found the pig alien. i also would've thought any speculation that this was not linked to the original series and it's history would have been quashed once and for all when Sarah Jane showed up in season 2's School Reunion.

  • April 28, 2008, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Lost Jarv...

    by BiggusDickus

    Martha doesn't have to wait for the bug people. I can be in Cardiff in less than three hours!

  • April 28, 2008, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Re: wackybantha

    by CrichtonAstronut

    While it is a continuation on the foriginal series and references it's history, it is also very accessible on its own. I would watch all the new series episodes in order as they build a more interdependant storyline. If you want to watch the old series you can pretty much jump in anywhere in the DVD releases, except for watching the Key to Time season long arc or the Trail of the Timelord eps which should be watched in order.

  • April 28, 2008, 12:58 p.m. CST


    by CrichtonAstronut

    And there'd have to be something seriously wrong with the time spavce continuum, if she couldn't find a date closer yet to home.

  • April 28, 2008, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Main difference between TORCHWOOD and UNIT...

    by spud mcspud

    UNIT's remit has nothing to do with fucking ANYTHING THAT MOVES.<P> SONTARANS! Great fun, though it's a little stupid to make them SO small. They must have the mother of all Chihuahua complexes. Altogether now - CHI HUA HUA! CHI HUA HUA!<P> Episode was okay, mostly a bit meh, though it was nice to see everyone investigating alone and not all depending on the Doctor so much - very Jon Pertwee era. Though even the nieces and nephews (ages 5 to 11) were screaming at the TV come the ending "JUST SMASH THE WINDOW! SMASH IT!". Full marks for a resoundingly stupid ending. Also hoping for a really nasty end for that arrogant pissant genius boy, too. Not bad, but not great, though loving General Staal - and especially evil Martha! Clones all round, boys...<P> Best forget the downpour of unmitigated shite that was the three-part finale last season - it was so bad I actually preferred Eric Roberts to John Simm(even after Simm's excellent work in LIFE ON MARS!)'s Master! Yep, I hated the finale THAT FUCKING MUCH. Let's REALLY hope RTD doesn't fuck us this year - so far so good on the episode front, no real dodos. Weird...<P> As for TORCHWOOD - the sooner that shit gets cancelled, the better. It's just a great big fucking waste of licence money - no redeeming features whatsoever.

  • April 28, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Seriously, is there another series called Torchwood

    by CrichtonAstronut

    that haven't seen. 'Cause this porn show i keep hearinn described soubds nothing like the series I've been watching.

  • April 28, 2008, 4:21 p.m. CST

    I do agree evil Martha's justas sexy and fun as

    by CrichtonAstronut

    real Martha. I do hope we get more real Martha trying to get answers from her captors and finding a way to escape.

  • April 28, 2008, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Love the Tennis Ball in the air spout. A very

    by CrichtonAstronut

    Tom Baker moment. Like when Marth mention the "if I step on a butterfly" from Sound of Thunder, after saying "Don't step on any Butterflies then." Tennate replied: "What have butterflies ever done to you?" As much as they say Davidson was his Doctor he muat have seen some of Baker's work. 'Cause so often he just pulls something that's pure Tom Baker.

  • Glad I'm not watching either one of those. I'm watching the ones produced by Russell T. Davies, not this RTD guy. LOL (Seriously, maybe it's David Tennant's take on the Doctor, (and, the great actor before him.)but, I don't see the terrible Doctor Who and Torchwood episodes that others see. I'm really sorry that some people are not enjoying these shows as much as I(and others)are. As I have said before, I hope everyone will enjoy the next Doctor Who, I already knoe I will.

  • April 28, 2008, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Yeah, I even loved the season 3 finale.

    by CrichtonAstronut

    I thought the post apocalyptic world was very cool and resistance. Like Martha's family and especially her mother standing up to help the Doctor fight the Master. And I liked that they used the Master's own weapon the ArcAngel network to defeat him. I can buy that At least as much as the Master's own rise to power through the same devise. Hell, Rose became a god and willed all the badguys away in season one. I also haven't seen this whiny Martha or wooden Martha, I saw an eager young student who wanted to see the universe and fell for this larger than life person who gave it to her, then realizing the feeling wasn't mutual had the will and selfrespect to walk away. And now is a mature responsible woman working to save lives.

  • April 28, 2008, 6:15 p.m. CST

    I thought that he was the guy from the Christmas

    by CrichtonAstronut

    Special in Partners in Crime, but I wasn't sure. I love that they confirmed it.

  • April 28, 2008, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Someone from the BNP knocked at my door today.

    by Smashing

    He was a kindly looking old gentleman and I did not want to appear rude so I listened to him for nearly 5 minutes whilst he informed me that my life was soon to be ruined by foreigners flooding my country. <P> When I pointed out we lived in the backwaters of England in a totally majority white city he looked at me like I was a bad person. <P> I do not understand why people would vote for the BNP when they have little or no political ideology, beyond playing to peoples fears, he left me in a very bad mood, so much so I had to go out and buy some skunk, something I have not done in a while, just to calm down. <P> Now thanks to the bloody BNP I am extremely toasted and have mad munchies, yet sadly I have only one Mars bar in the house so I am forcing myself not to eat it and trying to enjoy the anticipation. <P> I was going to talk about Who but the BNP man shook my day up so much I wanted to vent, pretend I am Harry doing one of his scene setting reviews, just without a review. <P> I agree Torchwood is not great, I cannot stop comparing it, unfairly maybe so, to Firefly, when I think it only got 1 season and TW has 2 and maybe will get 3 it makes me, well it makes me feel like the BNP man did, ha I found a way to tie it all together. <P> I a gay man, am made to feel the same way the BNP makes me feel by Torchwood. <P> What the hell's that about?

  • April 28, 2008, 6:33 p.m. CST

    Interesting all the religious parallels people draw about the S3

    by Smashing

    I never thought any of those myself and maybe they are indicative of the people who think that beliefs rather than what the story was saying. <P> We accept Gallifreyan "magic" as advanced Tek so why the issue with the Doc syncing in with the Masters mind net and taking over? <P> I did not mind the reset as the main players still retained memories, giving the story extra meaning, like a Secret War.

  • April 28, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Yes. The Doctor tinkered with Matha's phone

    by CrichtonAstronut

    and at the end of the year she gave it back and told him to keep it close promising she'd call him someday.

  • April 28, 2008, 7:11 p.m. CST

    fanboy idiots

    by the grev

    I'm always amazed how many people on these boards only seem to watch sci-fi tv programmes in order to have something to moan about. In the immortal words of a certain W. Shatner Get A Fucking Life. The main reason most of you hate Catherine Tate is coz you don't fancy her - no wonder RTD regularly makes a point of stating how much he ignores you all. Torchwood, however, is and remains a pile of shit, but fortunately it's basically irrelevant to the Dr. Who series so you don't have to watch it in order to figure out events in Dr Who. As for a story featuring other doctors, Tom Baker's still alive, don't forget!! He's old and fat but still as barking mad as ever. Let's throw Blake's 7's Geoff Darrow into the mix as well - an old fat Avon sparring with Tom Baker. Talk about a titanic team up - in weight at least!

  • April 28, 2008, 7:24 p.m. CST

    Indeeed smashing, and Martha even said how

    by CrichtonAstronut

    her family was traumatized by the events of that year at the end of the epiode and restates that in the Sontaran Strategem, there were consequences. And it's that the paradox machine allowing humanities evolutionary children to kill them is accepted but the mind net or remote controlled cars are questioned.

  • April 28, 2008, 7:28 p.m. CST

    I think it would be awesome to have Tom Baker make

    by CrichtonAstronut

    an appearance. Not as the Doctor maybe. But as the White Gardian or some major character in a story good or bad. He was great in Monarch of the Glen and even better in that Randall and Hopkirk(deceased) as deceasedHopkirk spiritual trainer.

  • April 28, 2008, 8:21 p.m. CST

    If we weren't here commenting on it...

    by davidaball

    Then there wouldn't be much talkback. I don't think every episode of Doctor Who perfect and can do no wrong. <p> My issue with the mind net and the remote control car is that they push the idea into the incredulous. From science fiction into fantasy. I'd rather not switch my brain off while I watch the show. <p> My main problem with the mind net from last year is, and even Rose's transformation at the end of the first series is like most RTD plot devices it comes from nowhere and solves everything in one quick moment. <p> It's a Deus Ex machine ending and its poorly written and unsatisfying.

  • April 28, 2008, 8:24 p.m. CST

    if they take anything from *A Sound of Thunder*....

    by lynxpro

    ...for the love of Zoroaster, get Jemima Rooper on the show. She was the best thing about *The Black Dahlia* and her acting was the heart and soul of *Hex*.

  • April 28, 2008, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Tom Baker should be a TARDIS hologram

    by lynxpro

    Seriously...have the TARDIS project the image of its favorite Doctor to represent itself and its concerns to The Doctor and companions. That's a way to get ol' Tom back on the show. I've been posting on OG since the show came back that they need him to do a voiceover to accompany the "Next time..." text on the previews, or to do an obligatory "Previously on Doctor Who" voiceover.

  • April 29, 2008, 1:12 a.m. CST


    by Kurutteru Yatsu

    I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on the Roberts > Simm front. I thought Simm was a great, slightly manic villian-- drunk with power over having a new body, a hot wife, control of the government (and pretty much the world), defeating his greatest enemy and keeping him alive only to mock him. Eric Roberts on the other hand was...some dude with ridiculous green contacts. He made absolutely no impact on me whatsoever. As for the S3 ending, the elf Doctor was admittedly crap but overall I quite enjoyed it. I wonder how Scissor Sisters felt knowing they were the official soundtrack of an evil alien overlord? No such thing as bad publicity?

  • April 29, 2008, 3:13 a.m. CST

    Tom Baker could play ...

    by Shan

    Xoanon, the computer from "The Face of Evil", who developed a split personality disorder thanks to the Doctor (and stole his voice amongst others). Alternatively, like people said, his voice would be great in some capacity or other. Jon Culshaw from the UK TV show Dead Ringers does a great Tom Baker impersination (voice and appearance) but it might appear to be seen as too much of a send up to use him in the show proper. Some comedy sketches with David Tennant as the Doctor would be fun though ...

  • April 29, 2008, 3:19 a.m. CST


    by Lost Jarv

    I fucking hate the BNP, smashing, bastards all of them. <P>Crichton, I'm sorry but how on earth you can defend that utter abortion is beyond me. For example: "Like Martha's family and especially her mother standing up to help the Doctor fight the Master" is actually one of the more unforgivably shit things in it- RTD had been saying all year that this was Martha's big moment to shine, and the reveal has that the Dr has been planning his fucking lame mass fucking mind meld for a year and yet they've got this stupid, ill thought out plan that they've all been working on in the meantime. So the Dr has this long term plan, which has Martha talking to the poeple of the world, but in the meantime is going to break out as a decrepit old fart. And do what exactly? It was contradictory and wank. <P>The reason I hate it so much, might be the fact that I genuinly enjoyed the first 2 parts- and liked Simm up to that point. It's the Spiderman 3(or X3 if you want) of series finales- rushed, ill-conceived and completely anti-climactic. <P> And don't get me started on the musical number. <P>Regarding Torchwood: I agree that I over-emphasised the sex, and am probably emotionally scarred by that shitty fuckmonster episode, and the first one of the new series, and have avoided it since. I promise not to comment on it again.

  • April 29, 2008, 5:34 a.m. CST

    Jarv and Smashing

    by spud mcspud

    I see why you hate the BNP - they don't have a true political standpoint as such and rely on xenophobia to sell their vote - but they keep on hitting that nerve. It's all very fine and liberal (and I am a liberal myself) to keep dissing them, but the salient point they use to gain votes - immigration in the UK - is never satisfactorily answered by any OTHER party as well as the BNP - so what's your angle?<P> The UK, a tiny country compared to many geographically, is being flooded by so many immigrants - legal and illegal - that the NHS, the welfare/benefits system, and the employment system is being seriously overstretched. My understanding is that most English people - those indigenous to this island for at least four generations or more - are pissed off (and rightly so) because our government is telling those same indigenous Englanders to get to the back of the queue regarding the NHS, housing, benefits etc, and putting the immigrants, as well as those of an ethnic minority persuasion, first. God knows why this is - who are the Government hoping to score points with by doing this? Are they INTENTIONALLY trying to cause a civil war? Why do they just hate the English so much?<P> The reason most Englanders give for feeling this way about immigrants and ethnic minorities is also a reasonable one: if everyone who ISN'T English-born comes over here and gets considered for state-sponsored aid BEFORE those Englanders who for several generations paid INTO this very state, then WHERE should Englanders go when they need help? Other countries? Try asking a Saudi politician why there aren't more Christian churches in Saudi Arabia, or complaining to an Afghani ruler that they aren't free to stage a wet T-shirt contest if they want to. We do NOT get the kind of consideration in countries other than the UK that we show to immigrants and people of a descendancy other than English - so, if an Englander can't rely on help from a state system that HE HELPED CREATE (and maybe his family before him etc), and he has to see this aid system stretched to breaking point by being used on people who HAVEN'T contributed to it by paying taxes etc, and know that they CANNOT just barge into another country for help because no-one else treats its indigenous people with such disdain and outright resentment as our own bastard Government - is it, then, any wonder that so many indigenous Englanders who need help and aren't getting it will go to the first political party that promises to put English descendency and lineage FOREMOST as a means to rank people for who is eligible for state aid, and promises to let those whose ancestors BUILT this country and the legal, welfare and healthcare system be first in line when THEY need help?<P> In short - you both sound a little Ben Elton at times about this stuff - glib, pithy, and with no real rejoinder. By all means hate the BNP - running a party based on xenophobia first is hateful in every sense - but at least have a reply ready for those who support the BNP as to WHY they are wrong, and HOW you would solve this problem. 'Cos if an Englander can't get first place regarding help, healthcare, benefits, housing etc in a country he and his ancestors have paid for in taxes and blood (WII, anyone?) then why should he be happy about the state of affairs? And then he'll go off and misguidedly vote BNP, because no other country in the world hates its own so much as Britain...<P> There are NO easy answers. But I think helping those who have worked and paid taxes in this country for decades BEFORE helping those who arrived last week off the Chunnel at St Pancras would be a very good start to redressing this imbalance, and would allow immigrants who have lived here for several generations already to get their fair share of the system THEY have also paid into.

  • April 29, 2008, 5:41 a.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    Glad you like the RTD finales (someone must have been watching them!) but aren't you enjoying the bits that WEREN'T actually written plainly into the script? You seem to be reading between the lines and enjoying what you see there, instead of the cliche-ridden, Deus Ex Machina-dependent, plot-hole-riddled shitefest that marks pretty much every season finale written by RTD. You sound like a fan who, when asked what the best thing about new Who is, would say "The Time War" - because it's in our imaginations, NOT on the screen!<P> Having read a lot of fan ideas on the Time War on these TBs (I hope vadakinx's fingers have cooled down after those posts!) I can safely say that whatever RTD does with the Time War - IF he does - it won't be as interesting as what's in all our heads.<P> Davidaball - hit the nail on the 1head when he said:<P> "My main problem with the mind net from last year is, and even Rose's transformation at the end of the first series is like most RTD plot devices it comes from nowhere and solves everything in one quick moment. It's a Deus Ex machine ending and its poorly written and unsatisfying."<P> Very well said, sir ;D

  • April 29, 2008, 6:22 a.m. CST

    Spud you are confusing 2 issues

    by Lost Jarv

    The immigration rate is actually a fallacy- The actual perentage of the population that could be termed minority is very, very low and drops even further when you put in your 4 generations criteria. I have untold answers for the BNP bastards, but in this case you are mixing the disgust and disdain that you (rightly) feel for the corrupt fuckers in power that have disenfranchised a generation and sold the country down the river with a nebulous belief that we are getting the shaft because of immigrants. <p>I'd make it a fuck sight harder for anyone to get council housing regardless of gender, race whatever. The NHS is so problem ridden through gross incompetence that immigration doesn't make that much of a difference there either. As for social security- have you ever claimed the dole? I have and I promise you that it is not a lot of cash. I cannot believe that anyone would actively stay on benefits that amount to £40(ish) a week when they could work. That is not a living.<P>It is fine to hate the BNP- but their stance is not anti-immigrant. It is anti-person of colour. There are a shit load of people in this country that escape the BNP's ire, and they are absolutely not indiginous (my wife being a prime example). Furthermore, immigrants who get granted ILR have no recourse to government aid, no vote and are given the shaft in a very real manner (I absolutely know this for a fact- my missus can't vote, and if she lost her job she would not get the dole). Blaming immigration is simply not the answer. It is also necessary to make distinctions in immigration- there is a huge difference between economic migrants, asylum-seekers, spouses, migrant workers (as defined by the EU) and just sponging bastards who want welfare. <P>There is much wrong with the stance that this country takes regarding Islam (the laughable attempts to set up Sharia courts in conjunction with British law), and almost all the problems that we have stopping it stem from European Law. The only way to fix the problems (mass immigration, sharia etc) would be to drop out of the EU- repeal all directives and initiatives and effectively rewrite 30 years of legislation. This is never going to happen- we aren't even going to get a referendum on that lying constitution that the bent fucks are trying to pretend is just cosmetic. There are too many people in the ruling class with too many vested interests for Britain to even think about reforming any of the various acts connected to the Union.

  • April 29, 2008, 6:23 a.m. CST

    I've just been reminded of this

    by Lost Jarv

    Does anyone remember the excellent BBC series Ultraviolet? <P>That's what Torchwood should be- adult, intelligent and brutal, no sex and coherent plots with actual character development. Except with aliens instead of vampires.

  • April 29, 2008, 6:44 a.m. CST

    Agreed on most points

    by spud mcspud

    You're absolutely correct on the immigration issue needing more definition - I have absolutely no problem, for example, with someone like Baroness Warsi, who set up and created S&A foods. I went to school with one of her sons, I saw where she was coming from in the early 1980s - she lived in a very rough, completely minority area (in this case, Indian/Black) and saved everything she had to launch this business. The amount of money she has pumped into the British economy is ridiculously huge - more than I could ever match. She has contributed greatly to this country, and deserves - should she ever need to - to be able to count on this country's infrastructure. No BNP politician could answer that rationally.<P> I think the thing about indigenous Britishers vs Settled British immigrants is getting more blurred with every generation - I had black neighbours who go back four generations, to before WWII. They have been paying tax and working in this country for decades now - the BNP would discriminate against them, again completely unfairly. But then, I think some of the main problem with indigenous Englanders being angry is the lack of obvious appreciation for indigenous English culture. A small example: a few weeks back I walked into HMV and saw a stand saying THE BEST OF BLACK MOVIES. Several things wrong with that: (1) The number of times I got tutted at or got the wary eye from black people wondering who this white boy was looking at all the Martin Lawrence movies. (2) The fact that so much American black comedy is to do with the way black people are treated as differently than white people - and then they agree to be racially segregated in shops like HMV, categorised not by genre but by their colour. (3) That stuff like BLACK MOVIES and MOBO (Music of Black Origin) would be seen as racist if done the other way around - imagine a WHITE MOVIES THAT MATTER run on Channel 4, or MOWO (Music of White Origin). I'm not counting the recent WHITE run on BBC2, as it was a thinly digsuised hit piece on white working-class England, rather than a serious attempt to understand them.<P> It's easy to get emotional about this issue, because our own Government can be seen to be ashamed of a culture that we indigenous white working-class Englanders are understandably very proud of. Try telling a black person in the UK they should be ashamed of being black - see which Government agency tries to charge you with being racist first. Try telling people you're proud to be white and English, and they'll be throwing montages of football hooligans, British Bulldog tattoos and skinhead '70s violence on the news within minutes. Pride for white people in the UK is effectively banned as being racist; pride for othe cultures welcomed into the UK is actively encouraged, and even subsidised by the Government (who would get paid first - me wanting a one-off St George's Day street party event, or the local Ukraine community wanting to open a Ukraine community centre?). This breeds resentment amongst the indigenous white Englanders and presto! - they mostly vote BNP, and the thick fuckers in Whitehall want to know why. Motherfuckers.<P> Still, I suppose it's a lot to expect national pride when England is ruled by a fucking Scotsman in the first place. Not that I hate the Scots, but ask a Scotsman how he'd feel having an Englishman run HIS parliament >:D <P> As for the dole - new rules state that if you have NOT signed on EVERY WEEK that you HAVEN'T been in f/t education or in work, you won't get the dole. So if you miss one week of signing on, or are unemployed for two weeks between temp roles and just don't bother claiming for those two weeks (who needs the paperwork?), you effectively now don't get dole. Which means that my tax-apying when I AM in work is meaningless if I stop signing on, even if I don't get paid to sign on.<P> Oh they got round the "spending too much on the dole" problem all right. By fucking over the taxpayers AGAIN.<P> But I agree - dropping out of the EU could only be a good thing in the long run, so long as we get a half-decent Government in >:(

  • April 29, 2008, 6:46 a.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    Yep - dark, broody (though could've done with a lighter touch every so often - bit TOO grim, made it look too self-important) and very stylish. I also enjoyed INVASION EARTH, if only for the sheer scale and ambition of it (and the disgusting design of where the abductees went when the nDs arrived and snatched people). Yeeechhh!

  • April 29, 2008, 6:51 a.m. CST


    by the grev

  • April 29, 2008, 6:59 a.m. CST


    by the grev

    Whoops -accidentally hit return and posted... absolutely nothing! lol You're right, Ultraviolet was so much better than Torchwood it's ridiculous - I finally tracked it down cheap on DVD 6 months ago and it's as good as I always remember. Torchwood, on the other hand... well it has it's occasional moments, but mostly it's just lame wank. It's mind boggling really how the same people behind the mostly excellent new Dr Whos can get another program so consistently wrong

  • April 29, 2008, 7:17 a.m. CST


    by Shan

    Outstanding series. Being from Australia, I know how UK TV works and at most we would have gotten one more season, which I was hoping they would do for a long time. Sadly they didn't. I found particular highlights to be the first two episodes and the coffins in the warehouse in episode five.

  • April 29, 2008, 7:18 a.m. CST

    Spud you're still confusing things

    by Lost Jarv

    Regarding black culture- if there is a subject that deals specifically with minority/ black issues then surely it can and should be categorised- just so you can find it if it interests you- for example, HMV also do an anime section would you rather that was stuffed into foriegn films/ cartoons/ whatever? MOBO is an utterly bullshit organisation (I know from experience) and the whole concept is laughable as arguably all popular music is from black origin. And I think Eminem won one year. <p>You seem to feel marginalised and resentful of this- I understand and to some degree I feel the same, but what you are really upset at is the prevalance of political correctness- this is not a race issue (stupidity is universal). As much as you see morons in the papers trying to ban Christmas, the truth of the matter is that no-matter what colour you are you can celebrate Englishness- and surely tolerance is one of our defining features. I do find it hysterical that the toad in power wants National British Day or whatever nonsense he is calling it when his party has done more than any other to end the union. <P>As you point out yourself, we are a small fucking island, do we really need to seperate it further into tribal partitions that are basically meaningless? And I'm proud to be English, as I was raised here- although my parents are celtic. <P>Finally, "working class" what the does that even mean nowadays? I don't know anyone that fits into this category, as the middle class is basically made up of people that work- so when do you cease to be working class? when you have a household income of £60,000? It is a bullshit distinction- the only real difference is between the ruling class and the rest of us. <P>Good to see the Ultravioet love- it was only 4 episodes, but I would be happy if they bought it back in some form. Make Unit like it.

  • April 29, 2008, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Spud you need to become PM..

    by Kelvington

    Whom would have ever thought that in a little Doctor Who talkback, we could have an intelligent discussion on immigration and population. Oh and Lost Jarv you provide some excellent counter-points. <P><P> Perhaps the one thing I like most about Doctor Who, is that he see everyone as just Hu-mons (as Quark would say), and any petty squabbing over borders and land and rules is all just foolishness.

  • April 29, 2008, 9:34 a.m. CST

    only problem with Ultraviolet is...

    by lynxpro

    ...its only 6 episodes! Imagine an Ultraviolet/Jekyll crossover. Torchwood should be closer to both of them instead of a UK themed Angel with less interesting characters who have to gay it up as if to scream at the audience "look at us, we're different!"

  • April 29, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Mr McSpud, sir, you have a right to your opinion, but......

    by axcel1

    Maybe, Crichton, me, and other fans of Doctor Who don't see "the cliche-ridden, Deus Ex Machina-dependent, plot-hole-riddled shitefest" that you and others see. This is a Sci-fi adventure series. I'm sorry, I wish I could see what you see (but, glad I don't.)to understand what you are talking about. As a fan, I really hope you, and others like you enjoy the last 9 episodes of this seson (series). Again, no insult or negative comment intended.

  • April 29, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST

    I'm not saying it's perfec I'm just offering up an

    by CrichtonAstronut

    alternate perspective. In case some one comes to this board who hasn't seen the new Who and sees everyone taklking about everything they hate about the series and thinks, well, I'll avoid that like the plague. And really for all quirks I really came into this this series thinking it was going to be so much more of a mess than it's turned out to be. Really, if you want to see how much wose the last three plus years couold have been watch that TV Movie. i'm so glad Fox or whoever it was didn't get to do a regular Who series they would have completely ruined it and would be a generation before anyone could think of Doctor Who possibly being any good or worth remaking. It would like or even worse than American Coupling. Every naff chase scene on that show I saw, every sight of lizard eyed Master I saw ther image of balding tv executives with the words WE DON'T GET IT tatooed to their forehead. So, yeah, I'm constantly pleasantly surprised by how solid this series has been.

  • April 29, 2008, 2:02 p.m. CST

    axcel / Crichton

    by spud mcspud

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a complete Who hater - I just have a real hatrec for RTD's scripts. They come across as lazy and half-assed, with logic problems and plot holes all over the place. I rewatched THE SECOND COMING today, and there's no excuse - RTD is capable of superb plotting, tight-as-a-drum narrative, fantastic, naturalistic dialogue (in fairness, he manages that even in the shitty scripts) and some lofty, imaginative concepts. So to have an ending like LAST OF THE TIME LORDS is just galling, when you consider the greatness of what RTD is usually capable sans Who.<P> I can see why others do like RTD's work - it tends to be the more obsessive fans like myself who see this huge vista of backstory with Who and would love to see it used effectively (in the same way the new BSG took the concepts of old BSG and made them spectacular, bleak and nuanced all simultaneously!) who get all bent out of shape. Viewed as harmless, forgettable kids' TV, RTD's scripts are passable at best, but look for inconsistencies in logic (such as - how come the plugging into the matrix enabled the Doctor to return to human form? How did it make the cage melt? How did it give him the power to levitate and glow golden? How did chanting his name give him this incredible psychic boost? Where DID ALL THIS CRAP COME FROM?) and you'ree suddenly frothing at the mouth at how badly written the scripts are!<P> An example: if you intend to have a spanner be used by our hero to save the day, somewhere in the script we must see that spanner, or hear about it, or know that the hero already has it. The means to end the narrative must be divulged to us at some point. Not to do so creates a Deus Ex Machina - where the writer just comes up with something unbelievable that was never before referred to at all in the narrative - in this case, that chanting the Doctor's name plus him plugging himself psychically into some "matrix" (which was never referred to earlier in the episodes, unless it's the weak low-level psychic field the Master was using to hypnotise the people of Earth. So HOW does the doc wir3e into that again?) would save the Doctor and restore him to health. And HOW did this psychic recharge melt the cage, help him levitate, make him invulnerable to laser screwdriver blasts, make him glow etc? It's not explained, not set up in the script - it's inconsistent. If you can handle that - have at it, Who's your show and I'm glad you enjoy it. I have to say, Season 4 has pleasantly surprised me - even PARTNERS IN CRIME, the weakest ep so far, was watchable, fun and quite enjoyable. I'm still majorly impressed by POMPEII - very ambitious and, for the most part, well executed. It's easily the best start to a season so far.<P> Crichton - it really wouldn't be hard to make something better than the Who movie. I still like Roberts though - he oozes slimy malevolence - and there's definite promise with McGann. Just don't mention chases on police bikes - just uurgghhhh.

  • April 29, 2008, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Besides, I go to a BSG talkback or board

    by CrichtonAstronut

    or a Lost talkback or board, I see people posting about what's going on with Charles Widmore. Or what's the deal with Saul. Here it's, well this weeks episode was cool, but I'd rather bitch about the one sucked 18 months ago, or that's on a different series. Like, well my life's really good now I got a raise, my kid got into a good college on full scolarship, but I think would be sissy assed and boring to appreciate my good fortune, I think it would be much more cool to dwell on how much my life sucked six years ago. Ultraviolet on the other hand sounds great, I think missed that somehow, and will see if I can get some episodes of that. I loved Jekell and Life on Mars. and I also think the Steve Moffat Who episodes have been the best of the series.

  • April 29, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    posted the last before refreshing. I do see your

    by CrichtonAstronut

    points as well, I'm not blind to the falts. And certainly constructive criticism is a good thing. It just hardly feels safe to use the word Torch or wood in or RTD in any context without getting bashed by angry sounding talkbacks often saying thins that have gbeen said before in the past week talkback.

  • April 29, 2008, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Theory on the Sontaranas' odd behavior.

    by CrichtonAstronut

    I think these are members of a Sontaran coloy who have lost their world to the dissapearances, and are looking for a new world on their own, or all the Sontaran's are feeling the lose of inhabitable worlds and are spread too thin looking for new worlds to spread their populace to, to give the Sontarans on Earth backup. Therefore they have to use subterfuge and hidden weapons to depopulate the planet before invasion. They'd rather face the Earthers up front but their lack of man power forces them to employ more strategy.

  • April 29, 2008, 3:45 p.m. CST

    About the TV movie........

    by axcel1

    Ok, maybe the main plot was s**t, but, the geeky stuff, McCoy's appearance,the regeneration, McGann, Masters, and other stuff I liked. Maybe the problem was it was a BBC co-produced american Fox production instead of an american Fox co-produced BBC production.

  • April 29, 2008, 3:53 p.m. CST

    McCoy's appearance and regeneration and McGann

    by CrichtonAstronut

    were good. I'm just glad we got proper British production of Who for the new series.

  • April 29, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Did somebody say that Milligan was a pediatrician

    by CrichtonAstronut

    if so. it would be a good pretext for her to get a guest spot on the Sarah jane Adventures.

  • April 29, 2008, 4 p.m. CST

    I also liked the way Tennate delivered "Stall the Undefeated?"

    by CrichtonAstronut

    "That's a bad name what if you get Defeated, Then it'll be Staal, the almost-but-not-quite-but-never-mind-undeafeated." That's another pure clasic Who irreverence.

  • April 29, 2008, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Ok, I don't think Doctor Who is perfect either,

    by axcel1

    As I said in an earlier post,back in the 70s, when Jon Pretwee was the Doctor,and he couldn't use the TARDIS. Sorry, but, The Doctor without the TARDIS don't work for me.

  • April 29, 2008, 7:51 p.m. CST

    I don't which is worse...

    by Kelvington

    A TARDIS that won't fly in the Pertwee era, or a ONE room (with wardrobe) TARDIS for the last four years? CE did mention there was more too it when he gave Rose directions, but that's it. Even the freaking Human Watch thing was hanging from the ceiling in the main room! Even the TV Movie took us to the eye of Harmony room. Maybe this is how we get Cushing into canon, his TARDIS was only one room too!

  • April 29, 2008, 11:38 p.m. CST

    an American (co)production...

    by lynxpro

    ...would at least be shot in HD...just as the TV Movie was shot in 35mm and the franchise never looked better than in it. The editing would also be tighter. It could also produce 22 episodes per season in the same amount of time...err...less...than it takes to crank out 13 in the UK.

  • April 30, 2008, 2:51 a.m. CST

    I generally like Who

    by Lost Jarv

    and I have nothing bad to say about the new series- the problem is, it hasn't exactly knocked my socks off either. <P>When you have a series that is so uninteresting to talk about, the default position of everyone is to debate the more flawed episodes, and as this is AICN that comes with a whole spoonful of negativity. <P>Regarding ultraviolet- I don't know if you would like it Crichton. Tonally it is very bleak, and heavily stylised. There were only very few episodes- but each one was tightly constructed but fitting in the overall story. It was tonally very, very different to Torchwood, furthermore, although each character did have motivations etc. they were very much outsiders (the femae doctor was excellent). It was a slick, clever updating of vampire myth and would be more than welcome back

  • April 30, 2008, 7:22 a.m. CST

    The Rani

    by weatherballoon

    I don't know the old series very well... But was the Rani ever called "Ladyship" or "Mistress" or something? I'm just thinking - In the first episode Miss Foster said "Did you never wonder about my name? I chose it carefully". RTD has said that lines in every episode link into the season finale. "Donna Noble" = "Noble Lady" (or Noble Italian lady = Romana?). Or maybe we're just giving RTD too much credit thinking Donna's something she's not.

  • April 30, 2008, 8:08 a.m. CST

    I don't know about Rani but K9 used to call Romana

    by CrichtonAstronut


  • April 30, 2008, 8:25 a.m. CST

    It might be a good time to have a non-human companion

    by CrichtonAstronut

    like Romana. They could go farther afield in the universe. and as a member of the same species she'd be an equal in every way. The dynamic worked well with Baker and Lalla Ward. I think that that would be the kind of relationship Seteve Moffat would be good at writing if he does take the reigns.

  • April 30, 2008, 9:13 a.m. CST

    re: Ultraviolet...

    by lynxpro

    I loved how the vampires couldn't be heard over the phone - because they were dead - so they had to speak using computer synthesizers. That added to the creepiness factor. The subplot about the detective's partner's girlfriend could've and should've been ditched in the drafting process...same goes for the bright flash when the vamps got dusted. I didn't think that fit into a clinical scientific retelling of the vamp myths. Otherwise, it was a kick ass mini series. I'd love to see that Fox pilot of the Americanized version of it that was never released...then again, I'd love to see the WB's *Dark Shadows 3.0* pilot too.

  • April 30, 2008, 9:43 a.m. CST

    I don't know about having a non-human companion

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    But it would be good if the next one hailed from somewhere other than London.

  • April 30, 2008, 9:57 a.m. CST

    And better if they came from another time period

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I'd like to see another companion who isn't from the present day. A Leela type perhaps? <p>Or maybe somebody who's already been in Who. I remember thinking at the time 'The Idiot's Lantern' episode went out that the young lad in that would make a good companion. Or what about Nancy from 'The Empty Child/Doctor Dances'? Though she's got a kid so I'm not sure that would work as well.

  • April 30, 2008, 10:17 a.m. CST

    I would like to see a different companion too

    by INWOsuxRED

    A different time would be great. Someone from the future who comes to right now and laughs at us, or someone who is amazed by our technology.

  • April 30, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST

    RE: "not sure why Martha had to be coned..." I think

    by CrichtonAstronut

    it was because she had to convince people who knew the real Martha Jones that she a) was Martha Jones and b) that there was nothing wrong with her. The soldiers could blend in with the crowd. The Doctor and the UNIT commander actually knew Martha and would have reason to interact with her personally as opposed to addressing the troops in general. Therefore they needed a Martha who could play the part and would fulfill their agenda. From what we've seen of the hypnotized troops, the Doctor would have figured out that something was off with Martha in about two seconds. Martha didn't interact with the two soldiers enough to conclude anything, and may not have known them well enough to know what they would normally behave like.

  • April 30, 2008, 12:38 p.m. CST

    yes weatherballoon,

    by Seph_J

    ... I think so. Remember on Pompei too, the soothsayer girl pointed at Donna and said "you call yourself Noble". And the guy said "YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON YOUR BACK!"

  • April 30, 2008, 2:09 p.m. CST

    I feel bad for Martha.

    by Smashing

    All the fuss over Rose's return and she (Martha) just sort of reappears like its an everyday thing. <P> Now I know she was not trapped in an alternate dimension but still, she travelled with him for a whole year ahd he just let her walk away. <P> This new Doc is sexually passive aggressive, he meets these young women, charms the pants off them, shows them wonders so amazing he is ruining there old lives then when they naturally fall for him he clams up and goes all British on there arses, what a looser. <P> I wanna see him settle down and have Mrs Who brighten the Tardis interior with some nice rugs and coasters. <P> All this make them love him and leave them is tiring and I'm worried the show never gets to establish an identity with all the changes. <P> Though I suppose you could say the change is the shows identity?

  • April 30, 2008, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Sontarans, the political discussion, etc

    by tylermo

    I'm not sure where to start. Okay, let's kick it off with the Sontaran Stratagem. I was pleased with the episode, for the most part. Especially considering it was written by H. Raynor. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed parts of the Daleks in Manhattan two-parter. Certainly more old school and enjoyable than Love and Monsters, most of Gridlock, or the silly Adipose ep. Anyway, back to the new ep. I was pleased with the overall Sontaran portrayal. Young Ones MIke/Edwina's ABFAB ex-husband did a fine job as the Sontaran leader. Nearly on par with the gents from Time Warrior and Sontaran Experiment. The whole warriors nicknames thing didn't do much for me. And, the Sontarans pounding their fists together, shouting, "Sontar! Sontar!" was a tad cheesy. Otherwise, I enjoyed them. If only the rights could have been secured to use them over the Slitheen, and to some extent the Judoon. At least they're back now. I was mostly pleased with Martha's return. Freema did seem a tad wooden here and there, but overall fine. Who am I to judge, I've only played a few roles in community theater. hehe Tate doesn't really bother me anymore either. I do have to address a few bits of the script as it relates to the one-sided preachiness. I know this most likely label me as a Right-wing American bastard, but here it goes. *see my truthful, heartfelt disclaimer after the next bit of posting* I was put off by the Doctor's comments about guns. I realize, and respect the Doctor and most of his companions, for not going to guns first(if at all) to solve problems. I realize this was the way in the old program as well. But, for f*ck's sake, can we get through the season without an anti-gun reference? What was the line? (paraphrasing)"I consider most people with guns to be the enemy." Even my wife groaned at that one. I realize the U.K. has put their guns aside, and many of them were happy to do so. To each their own, but most people who own guns in the U.S.(millions of law-abiding citizens) are the majority, and are certainly not the enemy. The minority (a.k.a. criminals who misuse guns) are the ENEMY. I'm sure the comment wasn't intended for some guy like me in the middle of the U.S., but it's just a tired old rant. I know sci-fi, comic books, and Hollywood movies have become the vehicles for one-sided preaching(some of which was needed-especially during the time of the original Trek)but after awhile I'd like to just enjoy some hopefully well-written escapism. Another thing I'd like to address is the line during Donna and grandfather's chit-chat about her nail varnish guy friend. What ever happened him? He's living with some guy. *DISCLAIMER* I have an uncle on my Dad's side, and a 2nd cousin who are gay. I'm also a friendly acquaintance with the original bass player of a well-known 70 and 80's classic rock band who is gay and has full-blown AIDS. I'm also totally cool with gay marriage or civil unions, or whatever. I know, and interact regularly with several gay people in my neck of the woods. I'm also among the first to defend their lifestyle to those that suffer from what I called (minor anti-gay sentiment)just as I took up for blacks, latinos, and inter-racial marriage when some of the minor league racists would spout their crap in private. SO, please don't assume I'm knocking these DW references out of hate. Not at all. What I am knocking is the fact that Donna's talk of nail-varnish guy hooking up with a guy, or even entering a heterosexual relationship with some woman had no purpose. It didn't serve the story overall Sontaran storyline. I suspect it was there for unabashed lifestyle promotion. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I'm not offended or threatened by it. But, the purposeless dialogue would have been better used in Friends or Coupling, or something. I guess if I was writing Doctor Who, I could have characters constantly droning on about the follies of extreme liberals and conservatives, or have the Doctor defend law-abiding folks who DON'T misuse firearms, or have him preach a conservative-friendly, libertarian viewpoint each week simply because those are beliefs of mine. Additionally, I could have Tennant's doctor drone on and on about the negatives of Hillary Clinton, or George W. simply because I don't care much for either of them. Does that make sense? Anyway, I thought the ep was overall pretty good, and had SOME old school feel to it. McSpud, I was enjoying the political talk earlier. To add to it, I would say borders, language, and culture are important to a nation. It doesn't mean excluding other races, and nationalities, but vanilla-izing the U.K., or the U.S. with too much extreme political-correctness(the Christmas haters, the unwillingness to recognize that most countries have a dominant religion, a primary language, etc. Or, being so damned PC that the occasional threat is overlooked) is foolish. I don't live in the U.K., but(saying thsi from afar)I'd probably want to pull out of the EU, as well. Just as much as I'd like my country to pull out of the damned, bloated U.N. Or, the Screw-N as I call them. You deal with them, and you'll get a damned good SCREWiNg! Looking forward to next week's conclusion, and more great conversation.

  • April 30, 2008, 4:12 p.m. CST

    tylermo if you like guns your obviously evil.

    by Smashing

    I mean The Doctor just told us so. <P> I'm kidding.

  • April 30, 2008, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Smashing, I assumed

    by tylermo

    you were kidding. Although, some would not be. Either way, it's nice to have some Doctor Who to talk about. And, at least 75% or more of the new program has been good. Still looking for slightly more mature writing, interspersed with some of the Tennant/Bakerish humor, and even more of a bridge to the old program.

  • April 30, 2008, 11:36 p.m. CST

    My 2 cents

    by shellfishh

    We are living in a fucking GOLDEN AGE for SciFi/Fantasy (whatever the hell you want to call it.<br><br> Doctor Who, Torchwood, BSG, Lost, Heroes, even Stargate...Of course it's not all great, every week, but FUCK, what more do you people want?<br><br> More random thoughts: It's great to have Doctor Who on tv. Some episodes aren't going to be as good as others and some things RTD does will be shit. I still think it's as good as the "good old days" of Doctor Who.<br><br> Torchwood has actually been very watchable this season. Especially Tosh's tits in "Adam".<br><br> Download the Children in Need clip of Tennant and Tate. It's actually very funny, compared to Tate's usual sketch show.<br><br> And DEFINITELY download the Children in Need clip of Peter Davison and David Tennant as the two Doctors.

  • May 1, 2008, 4:51 a.m. CST


    by Lost Jarv

    having your eyeballs cut out with an icecream scoop is funny compared to Tate's usual effort.

  • May 1, 2008, 8:40 a.m. CST


    by tylermo

    I'm forced to agree with some of your comments as well. We've got a wealth of science fiction, or science fantasy. Whatever you'd like to call it, we've got it. And, you're absolutely right not every episode, or program is going to be good. Hell, a lot of people would have still bitched about the SW prequels even if they're had been no Jar Jar, midichlorians, better scripting, and directing. GL could have never lived up to the hype. And, the same goes for most other programs, sequels, etc. Sometimes we get better, or on par with the old days, and sometimes not. Just the way it is. By and large, I'm happy with a lot of the new programs. Not everything is going to be A NEw HOpe, Empire, and Raiders. And, with Doc Who, every ep is not going to be Genesis of the Daleks, Caves of Androzani, or as good as newer ones like Satan Pit, and Mysterious Planet.

  • May 1, 2008, 8:42 a.m. CST

    I agree about the guns comment, I was a bit put off

    by CrichtonAstronut

    by that as well. I realize the Doctor is a character that abhors unneccessary force and even reluctant when it is neccessary, and I also realize many of the writers of the show very liberal and uncomfortable with seeing the military, any military in a positive light. But that comment just seemed simplistic and out of character, cause one thinbg the Doctor should never be is simple. And as I mentioned before the Doctor has managed to rack up quite a list of kills without using guns. The Racnoss for instance, not to mention the Dalek'sand his own people if you want to talk about the sometimes neccessary use of force. It was even stated in this episode that he led armies in the Time War for the sake of all creation. Not that any of this was wrong under the circumstances, though what he did to the Family was a bit uneccessarily cruel as opposed to just killing them, it's just after all he's done and been through (sometimes with UNIT) he should know better than to argue such a rigid and extreme position. The saving grace of that scene was that Martha was quick to rightly put him in his place about it, and from the Doctor's reaction perhaps that was exactly the response he was hoping to get. And later it seemes the Doctor was developing a growing respect for the UNIT Commander.

  • May 1, 2008, 9:06 a.m. CST

    I agree shellfish, we had days like this with Farscape

    by CrichtonAstronut

    and Buffy and Angel were on the air and then suddenly it all stopped, they all got cancelled, Firefly started and was abruptly cancelled. It seemed there was little place for good scifi for a while. And now it seems to be coming back. There are some brilliat and creative shows comming out all over. Certainly all the ones you mentioned, and I would add Jekyll and Life on Mars to that list. And many movies like Pan's Labrynth and Sunshine, and the 28 Dyas and Weeks movies. Torchwood was a marked improvement this season over the fist, the first season was good but not quite great, the second really clicked for me. I also like the Sarah Jane Adventures, definitely for kids mostly but it does have a certain old timey charm. and Doctor Who just keeps getting better. The Doctor and Donna really have a better chemistry than I thought they'd have. And the quality of episodes have maintain and expanded on the high they reached last season. On Star Wars. I tend to think prequal are a bad idea in general because by the time the prequel gets made you already have a idea in your head that the finished product rarely seems to live up to. But the real problem with the Star Wars prequels is that while they had some great ideas, and some not so great, the charcters and performances were just lifeless. It's as if Lucas were so focused on getting is big ideas out in the form he wanted them that killed any sense organic collaboration or spontanety on the the part of the actors. What do we remember about the original, the space ships, the Jedi mythos, a little, but I think most of us when we think of Star Wars think of Han Solo, Alec Guinness as Obi Wan. That beautiful voice of James Earl Jones that added so much to Vader, Luke and Leia. Charcters and performances that just jumped off the screen.

  • May 1, 2008, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Chricton, you raise some good points

    by tylermo

    I would add that some of the one-sided writers(sci-fi, comics, books, movies, etc) are famous for going on emotion-based anti-gun rants. And, they sometimes appear to be taking stabs at even law-abiding people who are the last to ever, or never misuse a gun(a.k.a. the people who are the majority). Meanwhile, you get the feeling that only major characters(be it the Doctor, or some Federation captain, etc.) are the only ones who should be able to use their phasers, or other means to kill, when it becomes necessary. And worse yet, they'll (for example) defend some characters like Magneto (X-men) who has killed thousands, but still ramble on and on about, "Humans, and their guns."(X-2 and X-3) Let me tell you about humans and their guns. Any of you in England or in the U.S. speaking German or Japanese right now? I think not. Admittedly, criminals and dictators have done bad things with guns. But give me a call when everybody in the U.S. hands over their guns so we can live in some unrealistic Roddenberry-inspired timeline where violence, greed, and war don't exist. For starters, the crime rate would rise exponentially. And, some other less than friendly nations love countries who chose to disarm the public. If only today's mindset(I'm joking of course)could have existed in the U.K. in 1940. Or, go back to a time when that Neville fellow made a bad judgment call with that Adolph fellow. By today's politically-correct terms, I guess he should have kept his job, or been replaced with some modern-day politician. They would have shown Adolph. That would have kept us from dealing with that unbearable Winston dude. What the Hell was he thinking?(sarcasm, as if I have to tell you. hehe) I apologize for my rant. Chrichton, you're absolutely right about Martha's comments, etc. Still yet, I would love for some writer to espouse pro law-abiding gun owner views. There would be such a rabid response from those that hate, and only have emotionally-charged feelings about the topic, that would make my web comments look like a Sunday sermon.

  • May 1, 2008, 9:26 a.m. CST

    Hell yeah, are the ever gonna let Martha out from

    by CrichtonAstronut

    under Rose's shadow. I end to wonder if the Doctor wasn't accidently on perpose playing on Martha's desire to prove herself(kind of essential for an aspiring Doctor) by constantly bringing up how great Rose was. Or if that was part of why she was drawn to him. On the ther hand Martha is getting a lot of coverage, two episodes here, three moree to come, and three episodes of Torchwood with a possible regular gig. And while they are bringing Rose back this season I would be surprised and dissapointed if they brought her back full time. I think they will have her back and then she'll have to leave again. Her send off was too good last time. Her return would cause to many problems for some of the fundamentals of the Doctor's character, specifically that he'd lonely.

  • May 1, 2008, 9:35 a.m. CST

    As for the original SW films

    by tylermo

    I would argue that Hamil and Fisher put in fine performances, as well. No offense to N. Portman (who is good in almost movie she's in), but Carrie Fisher(and this is not nostalgic bias)came off so much better in the royal/senatorial/leadership role. The directing and scripts(while not Shakespeare) were better then. Hamil, despite being mocked for his whiney-teenage role, was quite good. I thought he played the part well. Sure there was the cheesy-ROTJ line, "Jabba, this is your last chance. Free us or die.", but otherwise he was much better than Christensen. For me, Lucas seemed to improve with each prequel film, but even the third one fell short of the old films. Being a guy who was in 1st-7th grade when the films came out, I tend to like New Hope and Empire the best, and Jedi somewhere under those. My hope was that Sith would equal or surpass my third favorite, "ROTJ". It came sort of close. I'm not going to compare Sith's strong points to Jedi's Ewoks. That's like comparing something cool from the OT to Jar Jar. No contest. That said, the performances in Jedi were still better. Ewan, Frank Oz, and Ian Mc were all pretty good, but Ford, Fisher, and Hamil easily out-did Christensen and Portman. Not to mention that Lucas at least sort of blew Anakin's transition to the dark side. Some of it was too rushed, and too unbelievable. I thought the Tusken raider attack in the 2nd film was pretty cool. That said, I didn't think Anakin would have killed younglings that early in his dark side career. Perhaps, if he thought he was going to just round them up, and later realized that Palpie had ordered the clones to kill them..that might have been one thing. Instead he kills them without any realistic motivation. Lucas indicated in interviews that he was trying to show how evil, or bad Anakin could be. That's fine, but it was too early. To me, that was almost as bad as Jar Jar and midichlorians.

  • May 1, 2008, 9:48 a.m. CST

    I like how DS9 puts some of Roddenbarry's ideals

    by CrichtonAstronut

    to the test by taking Federation citizens out from under the omfort and safety of the Federation where they often find their pacifism impractical and their tolerance wanting, when they actually have to face some of the hard choiceas on the frontier. i'm not sure if Magneto's character is ever really defended, I took him as an example of someone who might have been good, but who let his hate and experiences turn him into a monster, but a monster he certainly became and was portrayed as, consider his actions at the end of X2. I'm not sure Magneto's statement was so much anti-gun as it was a mockery of how irrelevant he found human technology when there are mutants who can toss bridges around. Sort of him pissy and smug. I do agree though that it has become far too common and easy to say force is always, the military is always wrong, and a military solution is always the wrong solution. I think when position, any positon, becomes reflexsive, adopted or gravitated toward without thought. We should reconsider that position.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Oh yes, Hamil and Fisher out did Christiansen and

    by CrichtonAstronut

    Portman by a long shot. And I agree Lucas blew the transition to the Dark Side. I actually thought Pyros seduction to Magneto's cause was handeled better. I really don't blame the actors as much as the directing. Liam Neeson is a muc better actor than what we saw in Phantom Menace. From what I've heard on the commentaries he did just strange things like splicing parts of a frame from two deferent takes together with computers. I think lucas became a little too much of a control freak or got a little too intro playing with his new CG toys. There was much less of that in Sith and it was by far the best of the three prequels. Even the visual tone became more gritty and the ships took on a more tagible feel.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

    'specifically that he'd be lonely" meant to say

    by CrichtonAstronut

    specifically that he should be lonely, as it's important to the nature of the character. And Rose's return would screw that up.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST

    My magneto example probably wasn't

    by tylermo

    the best. You're right that he was probably not the least bit concerned about their bullets, what with having magnetic powers. And, your points about the military are dead on. As for actors not being as good in the prequels...absolutely right. Look at Portman in ep 3, and then look at her in V for Vendetta. She's not getting an Oscar for either film, but she was so much better in V. Superior direction and scripting.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Star Wars Prequels

    by shellfishh

    I do think the main reason that Star Wars (the original movies) were so enjoyable was the casting. More so than the directing or writing. <br><br> Natalie Portman very well could have won an Oscar when she was 12. So I blame her performance in the prequels on Lucas.<br><br> As for guns, I haven't seen a lot of Pertwee epsidoes of Who. Is there a chance that this was a throwback to how Pertwee's Doctor acted around UNIT?<br><br> Not everyone agrees with me but I do think that Rose was the perfect companion, even if as someone else said, she started looking like one of the Banana Splits as time went on. She had an outstanding departure episode and I hope they don't muck it up when they bring her back. I was actually spoiler free when I saw Partners in Crime, so I had a great "AHA!" moment. As soon as I saw the blonde hair, I thought "Fuck. That's Rose!"

  • May 1, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Rose was definately a great companion

    by tylermo

    I'm forced to agree. I'm not sure if she's my all-time favorite, but the character was nicely developed. In the old days, some companions were given a fair shake, and others were there to scream and to be rescued. I totally agree with those who are concerned about her return. I've maintained that the emotional impact of her departure will be lessened.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:27 a.m. CST


    by shellfishh

    Rose LOVED being on the Tardis and with the Doctor. She brought a sense of wonder and fun to every place she visited, and it infected the Doctor. He had more fun being with her.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:34 a.m. CST

    Billie Piper can FUCK... RIGHT... OFF

    by Steve Rogers

    Seriously, the best thing that ever happened to the show was when she left. Rose was SUCH an annoying character! Martha is so much better. Hopes for the remainder of the series: 1) Rose is well and truly written out after her return, NEVER to be seen again; 2) Rose is properly gutted to see that the Doctor has moved on and gotten new companions; 3) We get some moer amazing episodes like Blink and The Family of Blood 2 parter; 4) Tennant gets to do some more awesome Doctor-emoting ("It's just a bullet, regenerate. REGENERATE!"); 5) Donna dies in the finale - don't get me wrong, I like Tate more than most, but the death of a companion would be a good thing, story-wise, for the Doctor to have to experience (I don't count Kylie in the Christmas special, she was there for 5 minutes); 6) We get Martha back as a regular companion? Come on, you know and I know Torchwood is gash. She is wasted on there!

  • May 1, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Oh, and tylermo

    by Steve Rogers

    I hope the Doctor continues to slag off guns and people who use them each and every week.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST

    I think the Doctor did have a lot of fun with

    by CrichtonAstronut

    Rose, and she with him, but I think that's why bringing her back would be problematic, it would be too easy and happy and would take away some of the Doctor's pathos. Also her story seemed told, it's hard to figure where they'd go from there, especially with Gwen on torchwood following an almost identical story arc. I would love to see Martha return, while I don't think the series should move, backward the way bringing Rose back would, I really didn't et the sinxce that Martha's story was finished. And I also think her relationship with the Doctor would be different now that she's no longer romantically interested. And I would rather see her on Who than Torchwood. She and Tennate really have a great chemistry together. I liked Rose but the Doctor needs complications and bit of sadness to balance out the humor and mature the writting of the character.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:48 a.m. CST

    And Portman was indeed brilliant in V really

    by CrichtonAstronut

    the standout performance in that movie.

  • May 1, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST

    And Hayden Christiansen also turned in a

    by CrichtonAstronut

    fine performance in the movie Shattered Glass.

  • May 1, 2008, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Rose, Martha, and the rest

    by tylermo

    Modern DW writing hasn't always paid off, but it did for the most part with Rose. That said, I think the Doc had other old companions who meant just as much. While some of the older stories surpass the new ones because of less social commentary, and pop-culture references, they were lacking (sometimes) when it came to proper development of companions. I have no doubt that a modern writer would have given Leela, Sara Jane, or Romana even more background, etc. than we saw back then. Other characters who received even less would have been more fleshed out today. (Jo Grant, Ben, Polly, Dodo, etc.) As for Martha vs. Rose...I'd have to go with Rose. Although, Martha was quite good. Great in Smith and Jones, and very early on, but later it just became another companion swooning for ol' Doc. Still like her very much. I was usually okay with most of the companions. Don't get me wrong, however. Dodo Chaplet, Ben, Polly, and a couple of others were sort of filler. My view may be biased as I have(like so many other Who fans from the 80's-present)only seen the 6 or 7 completete Troughton storylines. There were numerous episodes from his run, and some in Hartnell's that denied us as much exposure to a handful of companions.

  • May 1, 2008, 11:12 a.m. CST

    other companions

    by tylermo

    Vicky was just sort of so-so, and the same for Stephen or Steven. Ian and Barbara were the best from Hartnell's run. I'd have to give it for Jamie(in particular) and maybe Zoe from Troughton's run. Definately loved the Brig, Benton, Jo and Sara from the Pertwee era. Liz Shaw was okay, and I certainly respect them for trying to make her intelligent. As for T. Baker's run, I like all of the companions. Adric wasn't horrible, but at the bottom during those years. As for Davidson's years, I liked the lot of em'. Also, Peri and Ace. No offense to Bonnie Langford, but Mel pretty much at the bottom for me. Catherine Tate isn't perfect, but she's growing on me.

  • May 1, 2008, 11:16 a.m. CST

    I like that the Doctor has had some major emotional

    by CrichtonAstronut

    issue each season. In the first season he was deakling with his guilt over actions in the Time War, making him somewhat inadvisably forgiving toward the Autons and the Gelf, yo make up for the lives that he had had to take and the overall cost of the War, and his resentment toward the Dalek's who made it all necessary. And in the second we got more of his really facing the fact that he was the last of his species, and the isolation and the terrible responsibility of that. And in the Third he was even more lonely because the one persn hwe thought would spend the rest of her life with him was lost to him he thought forever. and he had to struggle to open up to anyone again. And then he found out there was one more Time Lord in the universe and it turned out to be the Master. i guess this season he's coming to terms with what the ejmotional journey has left in it's wake, not just for him, but for those close him. Or who tried to be.

  • May 1, 2008, 11:33 a.m. CST

    No doubt about that

    by tylermo

    The Doc has been dealing with a great many things. In the old days, it was just popping in and out of time. A number of threats to deal with, and occasionally some really significant problems, or issues to deal with(like whether or not to commit genocide-Genesis of the Daleks) Nowadays, his adventures lead to positive and negative outcomes. Guess that's why the writers have to occasionally plague us with silly ep's like Love and Monsters and Partners in Crime. uugghh.

  • May 1, 2008, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Yeah, I loved Jo Grant she was a bit different

    by CrichtonAstronut

    than Liz Shaw, but I love the father daughter closeness, and I liked her rapport with Benton and the Brig, her depature was a very emotional scene for the classic Who series. Sarah Jane is of course classic, and got to spend time with both of the best two classic Doctors, Pertwee and Tom Baker. Loved Both Romana's, I sometimes think Mary Tamm gets too little credit for establishing the character Lalla Ward so brilliantly expanded on. Leela was a very interesting charcter, who i think gets too little credit because she's hot and spends a lot of time rather scantly dressed. But the character as a warrior and a primative was an excellent foil for the Doctor, she was often too practive and willing to kill, but was also eager to learn. and she was gifted with some of the best writen scripts of the classic seeries. Horror at Fang Rock, The Robots of Death, The Talons of Wang Chiang. Those were some of the most mature and maturly handeld adventures, even a bit dark, not at all like a kids show that Doctor Who was austensibly supposed to be. 'Course Genesis is the best over all. And Ark and Pyramids of Mars were pretty brilliat. But I just loved the dark tone of Baker and Leela's detective stories.

  • May 1, 2008, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Yeah, in context with the overall new series it's

    by CrichtonAstronut

    nce to have a few light one's. Though Love and Monster's was not my cup of tea. Blink was of course the right way to do a mostly sans-Doctor and Companion episode. we actally, didn't seem to get a lot of funny ones last year or season. And I think it was better for the lack. We had funny moments, but appart from the Shakespeare Code, and even that had some dark and sad stuff, there didn't seem to be any straight up humor eps like Partners in Crime or Love and Monsters

  • May 1, 2008, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Definately a good era for Baker compared to

    by tylermo

    later. Couldn't agree more with your comments. Jo was great, considering she was one of the screamers. And, Baker's ep's(even some of the weaker ones) were well served by the actors and writers in the Sara-Leela era. Some of the early Romana-era(key to time, Destiny of the Daleks, and City of Death were still something to behold. I would argue that John Nathan Turner took some of the fun out of the equation. Tom B. will tell you he (TB) could be a bastard on the set sometimes, and that he added to the script. But, JNT went for a different feel altogether. More science fiction, and less fun. Still enjoy many of ep's near the end of Lalla's run, and at the end of TB's, but not as much as the previous years. All of that said about JNT, count me as one who remembers the P. Davison years and a good chunk of Colin B's run fondly. McCoy had a few glimmers, not to mention Ace. Sadly most of his stories were riddled with poor writing. As far as the earliest years, I like much of the existing Hartnell and Troughton story lines. Those guys had a unique charm. Particularly Troughton. I'm definately a huge fan of Pertwee. (Even though most of the stories were Earth-bound.) Loads of chemistry between Doc, Jo, and the UNIT folks.

  • May 1, 2008, noon CST

    Love and Monsters

    by shellfishh

    I suppose I understand the hatred for Love and Monsters. I don't think it's nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I think it deviated a bit too much from norm for most fans.<br><br> The episode that I can not STAND and can not watch is "Fear Her". Between the horrible acting of the little girl (sorry) and the Olympic torch ending? (shudder). Give me "Love and Monsters" any day.

  • May 1, 2008, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Love and Monsters and Fear Her

    by tylermo

    Part of Love and Monsters was, for lack of a better term, okay. But, some of it was ridiculous pap. And, (I've said it many times before) I'm not a prude. I watch South Park, Team America World Police, and the like, but an oral sex joke at the end of Doctor Who was too out of place. I have no idea why it was written into the script? *wink wink nudge nudge* As for Fear Her, it was on the weaker end for me as well. Definately in the bottom tier with M and L, Partners in Crime, parts of Boomtown, and much of Gridlock, to be certain. In Fear Her, the "two men wrestling at the Club Med" comment was a groaner for me. But, that's nitpicking. It was largely a "MEH" episode.

  • May 1, 2008, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Just a thought.

    by shellfishh

    What a nice, pleasant conversation this has been. No one screaming that someone is a flaming douchebag just because they don't like or dislike the same thing. <br><br> Okay, time to watch the last few episodes of Torchwood Season 2 and wait a few days until I can download the second part of the Sontarans.

  • May 1, 2008, 1:23 p.m. CST


    by tylermo

    By and large, that is true. Occasionally there's a rumble from some guy's mother's basement. hehe But, all in all, a good conversation. Always nice for the American fans to check in with the U.K. viewers, and vice-versa.

  • May 1, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST

    The Undefeated

    by shellfishh

    I should have recognized the voice, coupled with the fact that he was four foot eight, but didn't know that it was Christopher Ryan until I read the talkback. That's fucking funny.<br><br> That guy is SHORT! And not in a midgety (tm) way. But he's a perfect fit for the role.

  • May 1, 2008, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Two last things.....

    by shellfishh

    Kim Wilde for companion or the new Doctor!<br><br> And "Rick, you complete bastard!". Having Viv flashbacks after thinking about "Young Ones". My favorite line is when Vivien tells someone Rick's name and then says that "the P is silent"

  • May 1, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Yep, old Mike from the Young ONes

    by tylermo

    I can hear him saying, " I just nailed my legs to the table" or some other nonsense from that great program. I think he played an alien or two in Colin Baker's run, as well.

  • May 1, 2008, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Dont' forget about Neil

    by tylermo

    "It's a Poltergoose, man." Or the one where Viv thought he was pregnant, and it turned out to be a case of gas. Neil cut off one side of his hair to become a police officer. "Open up, we're the pigs. This is a raid." The guy who opens the door says, " Don't flush the toilet, it's only Neil." Great stuff indeed. That's one of the few Britcoms I still need to buy for Region 1.

  • May 2, 2008, 11:58 a.m. CST

    I agree. I remember thinking at the time that

    by CrichtonAstronut

    there was something missing from the end of the Baker era and much as I loved seeing Peter Davidson in the role and had loved his work on All Creatures Great and Small, there was something lacking in the stories. I couldn't really put my fnger on it Davidson played wonderfully quirky and earnest Doctor, and I loved his interactions with the previous Doctors in the Five Doctors, shame Baker opted out, though I understand his reasons. I think the stories were too often too concept focused and didn't give the actors as much room to expand their characters. Too often their actions were dictated by plot. It's atesiment to Davidson that he managed to pul some really great things out of his Doctor. I do think that both Davidson and Collin and also McCoy, brought some excellent interpretations of the Doctor character, and would love to see what they would have done with the kind of scripting their predecessors had. Hartnel grew on me toward the middle and end of his term, in the begining he was just too mean. And Troughton was a delight. Some of the funniest scenes in classic Who were the scenes in the three Doctors where Troughton and Pertwee were bickering. And that scene in the Five Doctors where he was visitinfg the Brig who was preparing to retire, and he asked Stewart if he liked the guy replacing him. And then saifd he didn't like his replacement either. From the they banter i expect the two were great friends in real life.