Don't know if you've seen this yet, but in the DC Direct solicitations for July they have an image and description of the SPIRIT (MOVIE) DELUXE COLLECTOR (meaning: expensive) FIGURE which provides , pretty much, our first look at the character as depicted in Frank Miller's film. Personally, I'm not too keen on the black clothing...I definately prefer the Spirit in his classic blue duds but it's not my movie and I'm not a multi-millionaire comic creating genius like Frank.
April 15, 2008, 9:43 a.m. CST
Who knew he was really G.I. Joe with a mask?
April 15, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST
April 15, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST
by Kid Z
...blue suit with no socks? Now, I'm not gonna get too upset until I see scenes from the finished film, but the set pics from last week all looked like ass.
April 15, 2008, 9:49 a.m. CST
by Kid Z
...does kinda look like Dylan Klebold affecting a fedora and halloween mask.
April 15, 2008, 9:49 a.m. CST
That's who he looks like.
April 15, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST
April 15, 2008, 10 a.m. CST
April 15, 2008, 10:01 a.m. CST
One of the best part of The Spirit comics was Eisner's design sense. Why would Frank Miller choose to make this movie look like a sequel to Sin City? The unoriginal looking stills from the movie are an indication that this movie itself will be equally uninspired. Too bad, The Spirit in capable hands could have been an interesting movie.
April 15, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST
This guy is from the unseen "Male Prostitute Sector" of Basin City, right?
April 15, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST
that's pretty fucking awesome
April 15, 2008, 10:17 a.m. CST
Wait, that's not the Green Hornet?
April 15, 2008, 10:30 a.m. CST
Poor Will Eisner. At least this garbage will never be taken seriously. Frank needs to adapt other dark, gritty, unforgiving franchises next -- like the Goldie Gold and Action Jack, Magnum PI, or Smurfs.
April 15, 2008, 10:35 a.m. CST
I was wondering where the Sin City sequel disappeared to, I guess it got made after all
April 15, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST
That tie reminds me of Cameron Diaz's hair in "Something about Mary" or the sword joke in "Robin Hood: Men in Tights"
April 15, 2008, 11:32 a.m. CST
They all can't be box office winners can they?
April 15, 2008, 11:32 a.m. CST
by vaudeville villain
he looks like an out-of-work catburgler... or a pre-incarcarated hamburgler.
April 15, 2008, 11:43 a.m. CST
Seriously... does nobody know anything about early colour comics? Blue was meant to be black. Eisner wanted black, and now it is. Deal with it.
April 15, 2008, 12:05 p.m. CST
April 15, 2008, 12:07 p.m. CST
www.action-figure.com look under news.
April 15, 2008, 12:14 p.m. CST
And fuck your hacky 'Mickey-Spillane-for-twelve-year-olds' writing. That's right. Every new talkback.
April 15, 2008, 12:15 p.m. CST
by Billy Batts
It's clear Miller can't do anything but the Sin City look. Which has NOTHING to do with the original Spirit. Black coat? Give me a break.
April 15, 2008, 12:39 p.m. CST
The verdict's out, but it looks kind of amateurish at this stage. We'll see what Miller was able to p/u from Rodriguez, but he's clearly no Zack Snyder.
April 15, 2008, 12:47 p.m. CST
by Reel American Hero
In my opinion, not every artist out there needs to be a multi genre, platform talent. Take for instance, the band Metallica. They are known for hard hitting rock. That's who they are, that's what they do. I for one wouldn't want to hear a pop or disco album from them. That's not what they do. Frank Miller writes grim and gritty stuff. I would argue that his run on Daredevil isn't so much grim and gritty as it is just great, but overall that's his schtick. Some artists have their one little niche, and stick to it. I know I wouldn't want to see a romantic comedy from Quentin Tarantino, or a balls to the wall action flick from Woody Allen. I could go on like this for a while, but you get the picture. Some people do one thing (in my opinion, very well in Frank's case) and they just run with it. Is there something wrong with that?
April 15, 2008, 12:49 p.m. CST
by Billy Batts
I realize that. I don't want Superman to have blue hair...but the Spirit's blue coat has become iconic. Just look at the recent Cooke run.
April 15, 2008, 12:58 p.m. CST
by hank henshaw
...but was the white shirt also meant to be black? Bullshit!
April 15, 2008, 1:15 p.m. CST
I mean a yellow bastard? Hello?
April 15, 2008, 1:50 p.m. CST
Seriously buddy, you're a buffoon. "Derivative"? Really? One of the first newspaper strip heroes? That's neat. "Uninspiring" (by which I can only assume you mean "uninspired" -- invest in a dictionary)? You've clearly not read the comics. "Bad camp"? In The Spirit? Do you even know what the term "camp" means? The Spirit isn't campy at all, and tossing the term at us like it just destroys the credibility of the comic exposes your own dull sensibilities and lack of grasp of the vernacular. Oh, and as for the revivals of The Spirit "never lasting"? First off, there have only been TWO "revivals" (if you can even call them that): the first was a mini-series (and those don't last by definition, dumbass) from OVER A DECADE AGO, and then there's the current (as in, "still running") Spirit series that has been an unmitigated hit for Darwyn Cooke for over a year, and the new creative team that's taking over (Evanier/Aragones/Ploog) has one of the best pedigrees you can imagine in comics -- this revival isn't going anywhere. All this leads me to one final question, Trik_Ster: just what the FUCK are you talking about? No, don't answer -- it won't be worth it.
April 15, 2008, 1:50 p.m. CST
I think not.
April 15, 2008, 1:52 p.m. CST
You tell 'em! Rock on man.
April 15, 2008, 1:53 p.m. CST
Yeah, he just invented the graphic novel, that's all. Oh, and he's greatly responsible for the language of comics as we know it. But you know, he was no genius.
April 15, 2008, 2:29 p.m. CST
maybe release a picture of the actual costume rather than some shitty action figure to give people an idea of what he looks like? I seriously doubt his jacket will hang on him all poofy like that, and the tie will look all stiff (and frankly, slightly phallic). I am still excited for this project. I love the Spirit and I like Frank Miller's older work, especially his 80s stuff, but the marketing on this has been absolutely terrible.
April 15, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST
As an artist I can say that anything meant to be black in comics is usually heavily inked IN black, with a little room left for blue hi-lights. The Spirit's clothes were always depicted as completely blue and inked as such-so blow that argument out yer ass. What I'm least looking forward to with this film are the press junkets where we'll have to listen to Scarlett and Eva talk about how they loved the Spirit as kids and what an honor it's been to work on such a beloved property. Sure...
April 15, 2008, 3:06 p.m. CST
April 15, 2008, 3:14 p.m. CST
Frank Miller is raping my Grandpas childhood.
April 15, 2008, 3:27 p.m. CST
I'm sure this project is a labor of love on Miller's part, but I agree with those who feel that the tone is already a little off-kilter. Anyone who has sampled the conversations in EISNER/MILLER knows that, while these two creators clearly respected one another, they didn't exactly see eye to eye when it came to message and content. The Spirit comics have always felt more like Welles' noir to me than this flashy, splashy Sin City stuff.
April 15, 2008, 3:31 p.m. CST
by random dude
That line from "Dudley Do-Right" with Brendan Fraser.
April 15, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST
Shame. Hey, where is SIN CITY 2 btw? Just curious since thats THE ONLY FUCKING THING PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN SEEING, FRANK.
April 15, 2008, 4:16 p.m. CST
....but I respect his talent. Check out the interview book published by the Comics Journal when Miller was interviewed by comics snob Gary Groth. Miller basically pissed on any kid or adult that wanted to grow up and draw Batman. Now he's writing a Batman and Robin comic (badly!) with Jim Lee doing great art work. Luckily I got the Comics Journal book from the Library and didn't waste money on Miller's bashing my dreams. I'm reading the Eisner/Miller book and even in that he comes off as a prick. He's got big balls trying to correct Hal Foster and Alex Raymond's work. What an ass.
April 15, 2008, 4:20 p.m. CST
Really, really goofy movie with an extremely hardcore crypto gay aesthetic. I wonder how many "heterosexual" men went home and beat off furiously, then cried themselves to sleep knowing the secret they've carried with them all along is about to break lose like a disco rainbow to Oz! Shashay! Shantae!
April 15, 2008, 4:25 p.m. CST
I love that interview. Mostly because Groth totally pwns Miller; Making Frank seem like kind of a raging idiot. I agree though that Groth is kind of a snob and can be a dick, but he was pretty dead on with Miller. Still, he is kinda mercilous about genre stuff; I mean, it can't ALL be art, Gary. Theres nothing wrong with artfully done pulpy trash or power fantasies if their fun and excitin'!
April 15, 2008, 4:46 p.m. CST
...This guy is supposed to be intimidating? Very rarely do I see an image of a superhero and think, "I'm glad I don't look like that guy."
April 15, 2008, 4:48 p.m. CST
Take another look. Blue. Dark blue sometimes looks more black than black in indoor lighting...
April 15, 2008, 5:25 p.m. CST
I could not POSSIBLY be less interested in this movie, regardless of the color of his cape. Or boots. Or hat.
April 15, 2008, 5:41 p.m. CST
you fuckers yammering on about blue being black were full of horse shit but someone beat me to it. More insipid uninspired bullshit black clothing because some cunt can't quite seem to come up with something "close" to the original without blowing a fucking fuse. Fuck Frankie, not everything he does is golden unless it's his showers.
April 15, 2008, 5:58 p.m. CST
That's it? THAT'S your scathing rebuttal? A scan of a single, late-period cover from a QUARTER OF A CENTURY after The Spirit's debut? A cover that, while humorous, displays no "camp" humor whatsoever (let alone "bad camp", as you insist on calling it), and only goes to emphasize your total lack of understanding of the term and its meaning? AND you fail to address any of the points brought up against your argument? That's all you've got? You brought a squirtgun to a bazooka fight here, Charlie. Oh, and as for the decisive blow you struck with your "no one cares enough to scan and post any of it"? It's called Google Images, professor: a quick search there turned up over 76,000 hits for -- you guessed it -- scans of Eisner's Spirit (that no one cared enough to post, evidently). Hang it up. Accept that you flat-out don't know what you're talking about, go back to whatever dreck you'd prefer to think of as "good comics", boycott the movie, and fuck right off. 'Kay? Great.
April 15, 2008, 6:11 p.m. CST
going to have to pass then
April 15, 2008, 6:21 p.m. CST
Maybe I am gay! I hope my girlfriend doesn't find out! But hey, you never know how things like that can creep up on you... like Batman stalking the night with his 14 year old acrobat in speedos and elf shoes! <br><br>Anyways, my raging closet homosexuality aside, I was hardly reading gay subtext into everything. Just the EXTREMELY over-the-top gay 300.
April 15, 2008, 6:25 p.m. CST
I meant my prom dress, not THE SPIRIT's coat. TAKE IT BACK, MOTHER!!! AIIEEEEEEEEE!!! I HATE THIS FAMILY!!! I'M GONNA OVERDOSE ON PILLS AND ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!!! SHRIEEEEEEK! WAIL!!! MOAN!!! SELF MUTILATE!!! OTHER MUTILATE!!! DIE!!! *dead*
April 15, 2008, 6:26 p.m. CST
Cause I just ate a Taco and I wanna take a poopy.
April 15, 2008, 6:33 p.m. CST
You big thilly! Whats your favorite part of 300, btw?
April 15, 2008, 6:45 p.m. CST
That doesn't make 300 any less gay. GAY! Its okay, just liking gay stuff doesn't make you gay. Who doesn't love disco and cocaine, for instance? Does it make a man gay if he likes cocaine and disco? NOT! NECESSARILY!!!
April 15, 2008, 7:01 p.m. CST
April 15, 2008, 7:04 p.m. CST
That was the crappy movie I was about to compare this too. No, but, hey, maybe it will turn out okay. I'm just bitter because I want to see SIN CITY 2 and couldn't give a rats ass about this bullshit.
April 15, 2008, 7:14 p.m. CST
It's all on a cliff the width of a football field! OMFG... Come back when you've seen El Cid, Fanny and Alexander, Kagemusha, Gandhi, Alexander Nevsky, etc. You've had your film lover card revoked. BTW, I kinda liked 300. I got my money's worth of entertainment from it. Maybe I'll Netflix the BluRay. As for this Spirit... I've read a few old issues and it's not really all that great. Eisner did much better work than The Spirit. Geeks like me just like it because it's a piece of Comic Book history. Maybe 2% of die hard geeks have read more than one issue. Miller should not have shot his load over this project so early in his affair with Hollywood. He should have built up his cache with a few hits based on his other work. Then give us "Frank Miller's 'Peter Jackson's King Kong'"
April 15, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST
I proved you wrong. You failed to prove ME wrong. You KNOW you're wrong, and that I'm right. So now, rather than to be a man and accept your defeat, you try (lamely) to save face by piling a bunch of gay epithets on top of your non-argument. So now I'M the "internet tough guy" who's "beating his chest"? YOU'RE the one who got schooled, and won't admit it. YOU'RE the one who, when backed into a corner, has nothing but "you're gay" quips to 'defend' you. YOU'RE the one who waltzed right into a colossal bitch-slap by opening your obnoxious yap on a subject of which you have ZERO knowledge. You're clearly the guy who just came in here to be a TROLL, who wanted nothing more than to bag on a character (for whatever pinheaded reason) that you don't like. So fuck you -- I WIN. Call me gay all you want, little boy. Bring it on all day long, for all I care -- it only shows how badly you just lost. Oh, and in case you were somehow unaware of it, the entirety of our little tete-a-tete here is up above, for all to see. Not only did you lose an argument REALLY badly here, but you did it IN PRINT. Have a super day, asshat. Oh, and the word is "character", not "char". It's amazingly annoying when some dunce makes up his own abbreviations for words he doesn't know how to spell. Maybe you should get George to read you a dictionary, Lennie...
April 15, 2008, 8:22 p.m. CST
"I have a competition in me."
April 15, 2008, 8:46 p.m. CST
You evidently failed to read my posts. Like, at all. For your edification --I tore your "argument" apart, point-by-point. To wit: 76,000 hits on a Google Images search for "Eisner Spirit" kinda totally destroys your claims of there being "no content on the web" for you to post as examples, doesn't it? Your argument that The Spirit is derivative of the other characters and TV shows (!) you cite kinda defeats itself when one looks at the simple chronology of which came characters came first, does it not? Your relentless insistence on The Spirit being "bad camp" (a completely meaningless term, I'd like to point out) defies the simple truth that The Spirit has never -- EVER -- embraced "camp" humor as a rule, or indeed even as an aside. You clearly have some definition of "camp" in your head that simply does not apply to The Spirit, nor to the common definition of the term, thus your argument cannot be based on said definition, as the logic at play here is circular. Period. And then there's your "revivals never last" argument, which I already thoroughly addressed above, but in sum, I pointed out that there were NO "REVIVALS". Even if you stretch the meaning of the term to include the two (and ONLY TWO) non-Eisner/post-Eisner books that have come out featuring The Spirit, NEITHER OF THEM FAILED, as you implied, which means I've once again defeated your flawed logic. The end result here is this: I've dismantled each and every one of your points, displaying in each and every case how you are utterly WRONG on all counts. You failed to rebut with anything more substantial than the eloquent "gay" remarks you offered (so clever! So original!), which is essentially a de facto concession, in my book. I've offered you ample opportunity to rebut my own arguments, but evidently you couldn't be bothered to read them in the first place, or else you simply lacked the cognitive constitution to parse the meaning of what I was saying. In either case you lose, ergo, I WIN. Don't like it? Too bad. Want to keep whining about it? You want to keep insulting me, like a bitter little halfwit? You want to keep proving, for all to see, what a resentful little numskull you can be about this? Go right ahead, you're only sullying your own reputation here, and I'm beginning to find you amusing. Please, by all means -- do continue.
April 15, 2008, 11:09 p.m. CST
constipated. Give that man prunes and ex-lax so he can save the world.
April 15, 2008, 11:14 p.m. CST
April 16, 2008, 12:04 a.m. CST
by Alex Childress
So, for those of us who are sane - Full Disclosure: I have never read a 'Spirit' story, or comic. I am completley unfamiliar with Will Eisner's work, yet am certain that many great works would not be possible without his influence. So, The Spirit and the image? I am unimpressed. I know nothing of the comics, but I know movies - and this sounds like a simple-minded and bad one. A rookie cop is killed and resurrected as a vigilante? So, a magical Robo-Cop? Several characters have ironic, unbelievable names like Sans Serif (if you don't know what that is after years of using MS Word, go look it up cause I can't help you). Now, I'm not judging the movie. I'm gently pre-judging it, or handicapping it, if you will. That doesn't mean that I won't see it, support it, or that I'm refusing to see it. At best, I, like many geeks on this website have reservations about the approach to the character who is so old that very few people (who are not deeply steeped in comics) even know the character, much less it's creator. Frank may make a great, brilliant homage to Eisner's sequential art or even better, a masterpiece of a movie, but for now, I'm not holding much hope only because from story, to a seeming singularity of visual and artistic style, The Spirit looks like it'll be a slightly pretentious, big-budget fan film.
April 16, 2008, 12:35 a.m. CST
And Eisner is a genius.
April 16, 2008, 2:22 a.m. CST
by Lord John Whorfin
Mrs. Harry Knowles and Queefer Bukkake should just make out and get it over with.
April 16, 2008, 2:31 a.m. CST
say that the original Batman costume wouldn't work on screen. If by I'm a lazy stupid cunt that lacks the vision or balls to make it work so I'll stick him in some queer black bondage outfit you mean it won't work on screen then yes, you're absolutely correct.
April 16, 2008, 7:38 a.m. CST
...rolling over in his grave. Well, fuck you Will...so sorry that you didn't realize that The Spirit actually lived in Sin City. I mean, really, did you think you actually OWNED the property you created? C'mon. Even your friend Frank will tell you that in the end every comic creator gets fucked. Frank's just spreading the wealth. --G
April 16, 2008, 8:49 a.m. CST
by Steve Rogers
The fact they are aping Sin City so much, even down to the font on the damn advertising, pisses me off. It's called 'Will Eisner's The Spirit', right? I understand why the studio would want to Miller it up, but this black suit looks like ass and Sam Jackson looks like the campest super-villain since Poison Ivy.
April 16, 2008, 8:55 a.m. CST
by Robots In Das Guys
So The Spirit's not blue anymore. So what? Have you SEEN Batman's movie costumes for the last 15+ years...? The Spirit LOOKS like The Spirit. Just a different color that gives it a more serious look. It still looks as corny as The Spirit looks, except now he's black, so general audiences won't laugh too much. As for the movie, I only care if it has a good story to tell. While the look of the stills is a bit Sin City-ish, I think it kinda works. Hey, we may never see Sin City 2 anyways, so... ;)
April 16, 2008, 10:06 a.m. CST
by Frodo T. Baggins
Did not know that. Is Miller directing this? I thought he was shunned along with Rodriguez for Miller co-directing Sin Shitty. Curious. Who cares about his costume. Hes just the Phantom without the bigger Dark Wing Duck hat.
April 16, 2008, 10:33 a.m. CST
lol this dude looks like the fuckin hamburglar!
April 16, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST
by Robots In Das Guys
That's the point, asshole. Bitching should be going in that direction. Miller's has been pretty faithful to The Spirit's "costume", I'd say.
April 16, 2008, 10:54 a.m. CST
by Robots In Das Guys
That Dead End suit is awful. I wish Bats would get the Spider-Man treatment, with some armor on the inside.
April 16, 2008, 10:57 a.m. CST
by Steve Rogers
Fucking hell, you're right! BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
April 16, 2008, 11:03 a.m. CST
by Robots In Das Guys
Oh, Ronald...You're so daaaaark...
April 16, 2008, 11:34 a.m. CST
by Brians Life
...the only thing DEAD END proved is that a douche bag with 10,000 dollars can make a bad short film. TIRED of that being tossed around as "the bar" for Batman movies to reach.
April 16, 2008, 12:09 p.m. CST
this looks horrible
April 16, 2008, 12:20 p.m. CST
by just pillow talk
First in the Iron Man thread, and now here. You are a fucking wild man!
April 16, 2008, 1:51 p.m. CST
Sorry when I say that photo first thought was of the hamburglar from those old McDonalds commercials.
April 16, 2008, 1:55 p.m. CST
Is this a Hamburgerler Movie, or what?
April 16, 2008, 5:27 p.m. CST
Oookay. First, couching your approach this time on how you somehow deserve my respect in the form of a formatted post is both bizarre and poorly-thought-through, considering the utter lack of respect you showed for anyone else here by trolling for a fight, locating this thread, and posting about how The Spirit was among the "most fruit" [sic] comics heroes -- like you didn't know that would be an unpopular position on a Spirit thread, right? Such a transparent move. So now YOU want respect? Earn it first, Shirley. Until then, I'm certainly not going to waste any more of my time than I already have on this by laboriously inputting HTML tags. Sorry. If you're having trouble keeping up with what I write, go take night classes and come back when your reading comprehension skills are improved. As for your (very first actual) rebuttal: very simply, you expose your total lack of understanding of the subject at hand -- in this case, comics and the way the industry works. Having worked in comics for nearly 20 years in every corner of the industry, I feel that my knowledge and direct experience is ample evidence against your obvious hearsay, hypotheses and ill-informed opinions. In comics, A REPRINT does not a REVIVAL make, and reprints NEVER sell well, regardless of the material. A revival in comics would be constituted by NEW comics, not reprints -- by definition, the word "revival" means 'to bring to life anew', which of course is precisely NOT what a reprint of old material would be. This is why I already cited the only two actual REVIVAL series in existence -- the ones that you lump in with the unrelated reprints, above. It's obvious that you simply aren't clear on your own position here, ultimately. Moreover, as I've already pointed out (and which you evidently chose to ignore), the current Spirit series is a bona fide HIT. In comics these days, over a year of continuously high sales numbers is the very definition of a hit comic, and the upcoming creative-team-change to one composed of other consistently popular creators implies to anyone in the know that the book will continue to sell well. The sales figures are very strong for the series: Diamond Distribution (the main comics distributor) gives estimates in their monthly Top 300 Report (where The Spirit regularly lands in the top 50, mind you) for the series consistently selling in excess of 20,000 copies per issue in North America, after the first issue having sold over 34,000 (first issues always have inflated numbers due to "speculators" goosing the sales, meaning that there was no precipitous drop in sales, only a normal adjustment) -- I can assure you that in today's market, those are very high numbers. Many comics never sell more than 5-10,000 copies, and some even sell in the hundreds. Additionally, your wondering about "buybacks" doesn't apply in the comics industry -- with extremely rare exception, THERE ARE NO BUYBACKS IN COMICS, ever. Sales numbers are determined by initial orders and re-orders; no buybacks, no "stripped" books, no returns. Once the orders are all in, that's basically that. So there are the hard numbers for you, in black-and-white. The current series is, as I already said, an unmitigated hit. QED. Strike one. As for your claim that you only "compared" '60s TV Batman to The Spirit: I'd believe that, except that you "compared" them by calling The Spirit DERIVATIVE of The Shadow, The Green Hornet *AND* '60s TV Batman. I'm willing to go with the idea that you simply constructed your paragraph so poorly as to conflate the concepts of derivation and similarity, but that would hardly be my fault, would it? QED. Strike two. On the subject of Google Images and these evidently contentious 76,000 hits: The important part here is that you insisted that there were *NO* Spirit pieces posted by ANYONE, all because "nobody cared enough" to do so. When I gave you 76,000 examples, I proved you to be definitively, inarguable wrong in your position. Period. In case you're still hazy on this, the last time I checked, 76,000 scans of The Spirit is a hell of a lot more than the zero you insisted were out there (apparently even before you bothered to check, no less). For that matter, ONE scan of The Spirit is a hell of a lot more than the zero you insisted were out there. Get it? QED. Strike three. And finally: Endlessly insisting that The Spirit is "camp", or "bad camp" or now "camp poorly done" does not prove your point. REITERATION =/= SUBSTANTIATION. You've cited no examples to back up your argument, unless you count the oddly un-campy, single comic book cover (from a reprint, no less) to which you linked. For the record (since you seem unable to supply a decent definition -- only the word's inapplicable etymology), "camp" implies a banal, base, exaggeratedly humorous take on a given character or situation, usually with a "wink and a nod" to the audience (just like '60s TV Batman ~ do you begin to understand, now?). THAT is the generally-accepted meaning of the word. None of that even remotely describes The Spirit's adventurous, mystery-oriented stories accented by its light, accessible humor. Ergo The Spirit cannot, in the word's generic definition, be described as "camp" unless the party describing it (i.e., you) is basing his or her description on a lack of understanding of either the word, or the material (i.e., The Spirit) which he or she is describing. In your case, I suspect both issues are at play. End of discussion. QED. Strike four (wow, you really suck at this sport). Now please, kindly crawl back under your rock ~ I'm perfectly willing to accept that the DECADES of accolades for The Spirit from all manner of respected and influential individuals in and around the world of comics simply hold more weight than the baseless opinions of one who has obviously not even read the comics to any real degree. Your position is invalid, and you've already shown a propensity for childish personal attacks when cornered, which I'm sure we're about to revisit despite your current (false) veneer of civility. Please, continue to make a fool of yourself -- I've already repeatedly sunk your battleship, and while I can do no more to put that in focus for you, I'd love to watch you continue to flail. Proceed.
April 16, 2008, 5:53 p.m. CST
by Robots In Das Guys
Oh, shut up.
April 16, 2008, 5:54 p.m. CST
April 16, 2008, 5:55 p.m. CST
If you have a problem with something I have to say, refute it like a grown-up. Otherwise, this isn't YOUR message board, and I invite you to kindly fuck off.
April 16, 2008, 5:59 p.m. CST
by Robots In Das Guys
**FUCKS OFF** Woot!!11ONE3
April 16, 2008, 6:24 p.m. CST
Lovely. Enjoy that Pulitzer, it will be, no doubt, well-earned. Christ.
Pleased to meet you, Mr. CIA assassin on loan to NASA -- Believe what you like, but suffice it to say I have worked for Disney Adventures Magazine, Slave Labor Graphics and Oni Press, and I am embarking on a major project for DC this year. I've worked on well-known characters and creator-owned projects. I have, to date, written, pencilled, inked and edited comics for kids and comics for adults, and everywhere in-between. Before being a professional on the creative end, I worked at one of the most respected comics retailers in the country, as well as for comics distributors. To top it all off, one of the creator-owned projects I own has been optioned for TV and/or a movie. If you really know anything about comics, you can probably deduce my identity. Feel free to assume that a REAL LIVE comics creator (gosh!) would never post on the AICN boards, but you'd be wrong, chief. I usually reserve my posting for asshats like yourself who wouldn't know good comics if they but you on the ass, though. As for all my all my "claims with no substance" that I failed to link to (because I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you knew how to operate Google -- on my head be it, I suppose), HERE SHITHEAD: http://tinyurl.com/3qdqvt -- couldn't be simpler, but I should have known it was beyond you. As for your desperate attempt at assigning "I'm a Rock Star" attitude to my "I work in comics" claims, that's all on you -- I only admitted to my career as a means of lending credence to the idea that I know what I'm talking about (and then I gave you real, verifiable numbers to back it up -- how very arrogant of me). Do you debate so fervently with someone who claims to be a plumber on a DIY home repair forum, too? Christ, if you think being a comic book artist is a "Rock Star" job, I invite you to try it -- you're in for a rude awakening. Also, I certainly never implied I'm Miller, that's for sure; your fantasy life is clearly a rich one if you think it's likely that a guy of his stature, who is currently deep in production on his first solo movie-directing project, would afford you the kind of "face time" I've given you. Dream on. Oh, and please feel free to show me where I ever claimed to be an industry luminary of any sort, and I'll apologize. Since you can do no such thing, I suggest you go fuck yourself posthaste. On to your many questions about many stupid things: If you think I'm going to bother explaining the simple ins-and-outs of mainstream comics storytelling to you, especially on the kind of stump-dumb subject matter you raise here, you've got another think coming. These burning questions of yours show me in crystal clear fashion why it is you don't "get" The Spirit. Stick to the drivel, kiddo, it's safer for you there. Less big words, and all that. As far as all your other "thoughts", frankly I'm amazed at your ability to ignore anything said to you that negates your "points". It's dazzling. Oh, and your "cook the books" concept is a neat one -- a publisher pads their numbers to what end, exactly? To still make the exact same amount of money they made before they "cooked the books"? To convince themselves that their comics are doing even better than they already are? Does the comics industry, in your little fantasy world, exist outside the basic tenets of good business? I do love how you'll forward these ideas while having yet to even consider them, it makes you funnier. And I really am VERY entertained -- why don't you tell me more about the inner workings of the comics business, that'd be a hoot! After all, since there's NO WAY I can possibly be a REAL COMICS CREATOR (them fellers live up yonder in Bev'ly Hills), I can't possibly know anything about the business. Oh, PLEASE DO go on...
April 16, 2008, 8:25 p.m. CST
Heh. I also like how you keep refining your approach, until we arrive here, and it no longer resembles the one you forwarded initially. The very hallmark of a master debater (ooo! A double entendre!). Ever heard of the concept of "moving the goalposts"? No, probably not. Carry on.
April 16, 2008, 8:34 p.m. CST
One more thing: Until the aforementioned two revival series, only ONE ARTIST ever worked on The Spirit in any official capacity: Will Eisner. For OVER 50 YEARS. Your comment about the "keep on truckin guys" [sic] drawing The Spirit is most likely a figment of your fevered fanboy imagination. Oh, and the "Keep On Truckin'" GUY (as in there is only one, just like Eisner) is some nobody named Robert Crumb -- just one of the best-known comics artists in history, is all. Not that you'd know that, since you know nothing about comics. Christ, you're an idiot. Onward!
April 16, 2008, 10:07 p.m. CST
Uh, hate to break it to you, but Frank Miller is a millionaire, and something of a pop-culture icon. You don't rub elbows with someone like Tarantino unless you rate. Miller rates. More important, you're effectively still arguing that I'M Miller, which only makes you look even more strangely dense. RE: "cooking the books" -- again, none of your explanations apply to the way comics publishers work, and you're only assuming that you know what you're talking about. You don't. On the subject of the Diamond Top 300 numbers I supplied to you: You wanted numbers, I gave them to you. You demanded a link to prove the veracity of the numbers I gave you, and I gave THAT to you. NOW, rather than go with something like "okay, you're right, the numbers are strong on The Spirit, let's go ahead and drop it", you suggest that we hold off until next year to explore the validity of those numbers according to an arbitrary date you selected as somehow being the only way to really know if the book's a hit? Are you THAT DESPERATE to save face? Fuck you. I gave you what you claimed I didn't have, and I showed you that you're wrong on this -- the numbers on that book ARE high. YOU'RE the guy who came in talking shit; YOU'RE the one who needs to be a man and own up to the fact that you were wrong. Pony up, buttercup. On the subject of comic shops, the '90s meltdown, you have YET AGAIN opened your mouth on something you don't know about. Retailers weren't "forced" to buy anything, including multiple covers, etcetera -- whoever told you this was either stupid or full of shit. No one held a gun to the heads of anyone running a comic book store and forced them to buy hundreds of extra comics at a time. The reality is that if the retailers wanted the "special" books (mylar covers, cardstock covers, variants, scratch'n'sniff, blah blah blah), they had to order a certain number of copies of that book, and they received a proportionate number of "special" copies as an incentive. NO retailer HAD to order or carry a book he didn't want. Ever. I assure you, I was working comics retail at the time, and what you're implying simply did not occur. The retailers who shut down on the heels of the '90s boom did so because they were the stupid, greedy ones who thought the bottom would never fall out of a speculator's market and therefore ordered 10 times what their normal orders would have been, all so they could jack up the prices on the proportionately tiny number of "special" books they had in stock. ALL of the major stores that predate the boom survived the bust because they were good businessmen. Odd how it was almost exclusively the rinky-dink speculator stores that disappeared come 1995, isn't it? Not that this has ANYTHING to do with The Spirit, Will Eisner, or anything else germane to the discussion. It's simple, Trik_Ster: start admitting when you're wrong (like us grown-ups), or I'm content to walk away from this whole conversation, safe in the knowledge that anyone who has a decent command of the English language will see that you got schooled here, over and over again, and you were too thick to realize it. The choice is yours, but whatever.
April 17, 2008, 5:41 a.m. CST
Hi there. Remember me? The guy who's been working DIRECTLY in comics for 20 years? Yeah. Your "history lesson" is shot through with some impressively huge misconceptions about how comics distribution was during the boom of the early '90s, and what you "*know*" is jack and shit, apparently. Also, you're evidently clinically insane, seeing as you delved into what is quite possibly the most colossal digression I've ever come across in a message board post, waxing obsessive over one comic book after another, in a way that I can best describe as "subtly creepy". While I admire your interest in the medium, the application here is clearly a tad... much. RE: your taste in comics -- Judging by the books you cite as evidence of your discerning taste, I see that you're the guy I used to sell comics to, week after week, who fancied himself as having his finger on the pulse of the art form, but who was really just an overgrown fanboy. A fondness for Moore or Miller is all well and good, but your list seems to imply that you haven't read anything released in at least the last fifteen years; certainly nothing that resonated with you enough to make your list. Moreover, you present a strikingly vanilla sensibility -- the fact that you obviously don't know the work of Robert Crumb -- one of the most influential artist of modern times, both in comics and in the 'real world' -- shows me that you read SUPERHERO comics, but you're not a genuine proponent of the medium itself; kind of like a big fan of the Matrix series describing himself as a film buff, even though he has no interest in seeing, say, "The Seven Samurai". Vanilla. No mention of the Hernandez Brothers? Chris Ware? Dan Clowes? Seth? Chester Brown? Harvey Pekar? Mike Mignola? Moebius? Hell, not to mention WILL FUCKING EISNER? Nothing at all, in your short list of the good stuff? Do you even know who these people are? The impact they've had? And yet you suggest that ROB LIEFELD of all people was a "good artist"? I hate to rain on your parade there, but he's considered a joke now, by most everyone in comics. The mention of his name literally draws laughter, especially when paired with the phrase "good artist", which frankly should tell you something about your own "good comics" weather vane. Anyway, I'm done. You're obviously a little 'touched', as well as a little too interested in continuing this discussion (regardless of how on-topic it is) and I have already offered way too much of my time to this amazing parade of bullshit, and whatever OCD drugs you're on don't seem to be working, so I'll bid you a fond adieu. I no longer think you're an idiot; instead I'm just convinced that at best you're socially retarded, and at worst you're some kind of shut-in looking for someone to play with. No thanks -- I have a life that I'm going to go ahead and return to now, thankyouverymuch. Try reading some comics for grown-ups sometime. If the consensus is that The Spirit is great, and you think that EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD is wrong, and that The Spirit is "bad camp", you might consider that maybe... just maybe... it's always been you, not them. But I doubt you'll get a hold of that concept. Oh well. 'Bye!
April 17, 2008, 5:43 a.m. CST
I already gave you enough info to go on. You have a computer, you have the internet, and you have Google. Work it out for yourself, big boy. Toodles.