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Partners In Crime!! Three Reviews Of DOCTOR WHO 4.1!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
If I’m not mistaken, episode 30.1 (or 4.1, depending how one counts) of “Doctor Who” arrives on America’s SciFi Channel April 25, one week subsequent to SciFi’s transmission of the 2007 “Who” Christmas special.
The Brits saw it today.
“Doctor Dan” gives it a three out of five:
DOCTOR WHO 4.1 – "Partners In Crime"
Writer: Russell T. Davies
Director: James Strong
Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna Noble), Sarah Lancashire (Miss Foster), Bernard Cribbins (Wilfred Mott), Jacqueline King (Sylvia Noble), Verona Joseph (Penny Carter), Jessica Gunning (Stacey Harris), Martin Ball (Roger Davey), Rachid Sabitri (Craig Staniland), Chandra Ruegg (Clare Pope), Sue Kelvin (Suzette Chambers) & Jonathan Stratt (Taxi Driver)
The Doctor is reacquainted with Donna, who helps him stop the manufacture of a deadly weight-loss pill...
Forgetting the bland Voyage Of The Damned at Christmas, the last time we saw The Doctor he had just bid farewell to Martha Jones, who decided to take a sabbatical from her adventures with the Time Lord. The premiere of season 4, Partners In Crime, opens in similar fashion to Martha's season 3 debut, with one-off companion Donna (Catherine Tate) also striding purposefully down a busy London street – but unaware The Doctor is on the same street, for exactly the same reason...
Donna, posing as a health and safety officer, infiltrates the offices of Adipose Industries, a business offering a miracle drug to help the country's overweight population. In extended sequences, it transpires that The Doctor is also investigating the mysterious company, although Donna and The Doctor comically avoid meeting each other directly. Donna eventually goes to meet slimmer Stacey Harris (Jessica Gunning), while The Doctor visits Martin (Roger Davey), who is very happy with the Adipose pill, but confused about why his burglar alarm has started going off at 1.10 am every morning...
The riddle is answered by Donna, as Stacey goes upstairs to the bathroom, leaving Donna to fiddle with a gold pendant Adipose Industries hand out as freebies to every customer. After absent-mindedly twisting the pill-shaped pendant, it triggers a reaction in Stacey upstairs – who watches in horror as her stomach flesh begins to pulsate, eventually turning her whole body to slush. Concerned, Donna bursts into the bathroom to find a puddle of Stacey's clothes on the floor and a small, marshmallow-like, chubby alien perched on the bathroom window! According to Adipose Industries' executive Miss Foster (Sarah Lancashire), the pendant triggered premature "parthenogenesis" in Stacey Harris, and she dispatches some of her employees to clean up the scene.
From there, we get a better understanding of Donna's current situation after her adventure with The Doctor in The Runaway Bride Christmas Special. She's living with her irritating mother Sylvia (Jacqueline King), but prefers to spend time with her "Gramps" Wilfred (Bernard Cribbins), who spends his days "up the hill" on his allotment, staring at the stars through a telescope. Donna hasn't told her family about her dalliance with aliens, or the real circumstances behind her wedding day fiasco, but makes it clear to her Gramps that she's waiting for "the right man" to come along – in similar fashion to how Torchwood's Captain Jack spent season 1 waiting for "the right kind of doctor".
There's a great scene for The Doctor inside the TARDIS, as he realizes he's talking to himself, signifying his unease at being a lone adventurer, but he's soon back at Adipose to single-handedly thwart Miss Foster's plans. He snoops on Miss Foster by using an outside window-cleaning rig to position himself outside her office window, to hear Miss Foster berating one of her employees, Penny Carter (Verona Joseph), who appears to have cottoned-on to her plan...
Donna also arrives, and there's a brilliant scene where The Doctor and Donna finally clasp eyes on each other, albeit from behind a sound-proof window and door, on opposite ends of Miss Foster's office. Possibly intended as a joke at Catherine Tate's brash nature during Runaway Bride, I thought it was particularly amusing of writer Russell T. Davies to have Donna shout and "overact" from behind solid glass, effectively having to mime her histrionics. It was a really nice touch, and the scene has a funny pay-off when Miss Foster calmly interjects on The Doctor and Donna's silent "conversation."
The Doctor and Donna are finally reunited, with Miss Foster in hot pursuit (armed with a sonic pen), which she uses to trap them both on the window cleaning-rig – with Donna dangling from the broken rig, and The Doctor seconds away from a freefall to death. However, after managing to knock Miss Foster's sonic pen away with a ricochet effect from his sonic screwdriver, he manages to get them both to safety inside the Adipose office block.
In typical villainous fashion, Miss Foster and two armed goons eventually locate The Doctor and Donna, and she monologues her nefarious plot: to use Earth as an alternative "breeding planet" for the Adiposian First Family. Behind the wall of the office block is a large system called The Inducer, which can make the 1 million users of her slimming pill go into parthenogenesis and transform into millions of tiny alien Adipose children immediately. The Doctor slips away from Miss Foster with Donna, by creating a sonic wave blast from his screwdriver and her pen, before finding a cupboard with access to The Inducer.
Miss Foster starts the Inducer system, and overweight pill-takers across London begin to contort in pain as their body fat coalesces into chubby aliens. The Doctor uses one of Adipose Industries' pendants to dampen the effects of The Inducers, but is at a loss once Miss Foster increases the power. Fortunately, Donna has another pendant to hand, and the two combined manage to override the system. Still, Miss Foster is happy that 10,000 Adipose have been created, and the thousands of chubby aliens march together down London streets, as their nursery ship (looking extremely similar to the Mothership in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind) descends to collect them.
On the roof, The Doctor and Donna watch the Adipose babies float upwards to the nursery ship through the night sky, along with Miss Foster. The Doctor warns her to escape the ship's tractor beam, but she's convinced she'll be handsomely rewarded by the Adiposian First Family for her duties as nanny. But, of course, as The Doctor warned, the Adiposians have to need for a "foster mother" now that their children have been born, and she plummets to the ground.
With disaster averted (or at least limited) by The Doctor, Donna practically invites herself along for more adventures. The Doctor only seems to half-remember inviting Donna along once before, but now she's convinced it's the right thing to do. In fact, she's already fully packed with suitcases filling the boot of her car. The Doctor, despite being lonely, makes it clear that things got complicated with Martha, but seems happy once Donna makes it clear that she doesn’t fancy him.
Donna leaves her car parked in an alley next to the TARDIS, puts the car keys in a nearby bin, and phones her mum to say goodbye. Just before she leaves, Donna asks a blonde-haired girl to keep an eye out for her mum, and as she rushes off to be with The Doctor, the girl turns around and reveals herself as Rose! Then, Rose walks away, fading like a ghost, until she disappears...
The episode closes with Gramps still in his allotment looking through his telescope at the stars, as the TARDIS spins into view, with The Doctor and Donna clearly visible through its open front door. As Gramps yelps with joy, the TARDIS ascends to the heavens, taking his granddaughter on the ride of her life...
Russell T. Davies manages to deliver a very effective premiere, which entertainingly reintroduces Donna Noble and tweaks her character away from the irritating loudness that caused such upset in The Runaway Bride special. There are moments when Donna's feisty nature comes through, but it's tempered by a more whimsical air and infectious enthusiasm. Above all, it's just nice to have a companion who categorically has no intention of smooching with The Doctor, and therefore should result in a fresher Doctor/companion relationship.
The episode's basic idea is perhaps better suited to The Sarah Jane Adventures, but the sense of fun and some genuinely funny moments help make it palatable for adult audiences. And I'm sure kids will love the adorable Adipose babies, as you can already imagine them as cuddly toys for Christmas '08. The sequences with the hundreds of Adipodes were apparently created using the "Massive FX" computer software used in Lord Of The Rings, and it's certainly a noticeable improvement over the swarms of Daleks we've seen on the show before now.
Partners In Crime certainly kept me entertained throughout, and I was struck by the instant chemistry between The Doctor and Donna, with Catherine Tate particularly enjoyable, and David Tennant now firmly embodying the wandering Time Lord with a level of authority not seen since Peter Davison's days on the show. He just lacks the iconic presence of Tom Baker, really, but he's still marvellous to watch bounce through scenes.
And what about the surprise early appearance from Rose? I didn't see that coming, although I did realize it was Rose just from the colour/style of her hair, before her face was revealed. Is that sad? It looks likely she's season 4's "arc" element -- to be sprinkled throughout the 13 episodes -- but why is she back? Her ghost-like disappearance hints at the likelihood she's found a way to cross dimensions from her own parallel universe into ours, but for what purpose?
Overall, Partners In Crime was a competent, efficient and entertaining start to the new season. There were the usual gripes with Doctor Who in evidence (the overuse of the sonic screwdriver, primarily), and I'm confused about Gramps musing on the secrets of the universe – as he debuted in Voyage Of The Damned as a local awaiting alien invasion because the previous two Christmases both featured alien attacks on London – but never mind. Doctor Who and Torchwood have always featured populations with implausible reactions to alien first contact, and very bad memories...
All said, I found this to be a good episode with more to recommend than to pick fault with. Catherine Tate might not be as physically attractive as Billie Piper and Freema Agyeman, but she does bring a welcome change of dynamic and her character has definitely improved from Runaway Bride on the evidence of this. I'm more excited about the possibilities of season 4 than I was yesterday.
The Good
1. Catherine Tate and David Tennant. No, I didn’t like Donna in The Runaway Bride either, but she was absolutely fine in this opener. Tate's comic timing boosted some scenes, and her interaction with David Tennant was great to watch.
2. The Adipose were extremely cute creations, and I particularly liked the visuals for them en masse.
3. Sarah Lancashire had a clichéd role as an evil executive, but she was still fun to watch trotting around in black spectacles and blood-red lipstick.
4. The comedy can sometimes be eye-rolling on Doctor Who, but there were some great moments of comedy in this episode – particularly regarding Donna and The Doctor's near-misses, her mention of the Titanic spaceship over Buckingham Palace as "a hoax", Gramps missing a giant spaceship floating past behind him, and when it's revealed Donna keeps her car packed just in case she finds The Doctor.
5. The unexpected appearance by Billie Piper as Rose. The show has difficulty keeping secrets – so we already know Rose was due back in season 4 – but not in the first episode!
The Bad
1. The story worked well, but I'm not a fan of the sillier plots Doctor Who often deals in – particularly because I thought the idea behind Sarah Jane Adventures' creation was to move the more kid-friendly stories into that show. I know the show has to tailor for 8-year-olds as well as 80-year-olds, but I think plots about fat-based aliens growing out of peoples' bodies would be best suited on the Sarah Jane show.
2. Yes, more overuse of the sonic screwdriver to get out of any plot dead-ends and tight spots. It's almost painful.
3. Bernard Cribbins already seems to be the best family member for a companion since Jackie Tyler.
4. It feels like Russell T. Davies has a basic story template that he refuses to budge from, which meant this episode mostly felt like it was on rails whenever it focused on Adipose Industries and Miss Foster. The "evil company" and "evil business person" is a staple of Who, Torchwood and Sarah Jane.
The Geeky
1. Actor Howard Atfield, who played Donna's father Geoff in The Runaway Bride, died after filming that 2006 special, so his character was replaced by Bernard Cribbins as Donna's grandfather.
2. This episode features the first use of Massive FX software on television; after its creation by New Zealand 's WETA special-effects house to create crowd scenes of digital characters in the Lord Of The Rings trilogy.
Rating: 3 / 5
“The Handsome 12th Doctor” says it’s “the best opening episode yet of new-Who”:
Who's back? Yes it is.
And with a change of personnel. Martha My Dear has taken leave for a while. Pixie Minogue was only a temporary substitute. Leaving us with the return of Donna (Catherine Tate).
Now I'm aware of a fair amount of Tate-hate out there. There exists a remarkably large group of Tate-haters, or Taters as I'll refer to them from now. And I don't get why this is.
Sure, you might not like her sketch show. I don't myself. But that's no reason to hate the woman. It's not as if she walks around all day going "Am I bovvered". I've seen her perform well in enough other things, such as 'Scenes of a Sexual Nature' or 'Big Train', that I'm able to separate her from the bovveredness.
Though if there's one justifiable weapon that the Taters possess it's that her character of Donna from two Christmases ago was a bit of an irritant. And I'd agree that if she played the role exactly like that for a full season then it would be an annoying show. However, judging from tonight's episode she's changed her approach. It was a nicely more restrained performance (apart from a moment or two at the end). She showed she can do the sober stuff as well as the funny.
If she continues the same way then she should, I hope, quieten a lot of the Taters.
But enough of the Tater waffling....... what about the rest of the show?
It was the best opening episode yet of new-Who. I may have said that this time last year but I was right then and I'm right again now. The story was fun and original and moved along at a very good pace.
The comedy elements were pretty sharp. I enjoyed the miming scene between the Doctor and Donna, and even though I could tell what the punchline to that was going to be I still laughed. I also laughed a lot at the actions of the Adipose, which I think are the best bizarro creations that new-Who has done so far. Looking like a Barbapapa family reunion these 'things' scuttled about in their hundreds. And in one case slid down a car bonnet like it was a ride. Well done to the effects team that did them.
Would it be weird to say I want a soft toy version of one?
Sarah Lancashire played a fine baddie. Though I felt her end scene could have been done better. That was the only down point of the ep to me.
David Tennant remains a brilliant Doc. And he and Tate look to have a winning dynamic together. I like that they've stated this early on that they're going to be 'just mates'. We've had enough of the girlies fawning over him.
Speaking of which.......... Her? There? Whoa. How?
It's going to be cool finding out. I'm looking forward greatly to the rest of the season. And I've been told they'll be visiting some worlds that are even more alien than London.
Scary.
The Handsome 12th Doctor
“Kelvington” notes the episode ends with a “holy shit” moment:
Well, tonight marks the return of Doctor Who and sort of a reboot, in that the episode opens up almost like series 1 with a female character living her life and going through the motions. But instead of Rose, this time it's Donna. She wants to find the Doctor and looks anywhere that there appears to be trouble. Including a company selling a rather dodgey diet pill, where the fat literally walks away from you.
Now the first fifteen minutes is played very much like a like romantic comedy where the Doctor and Donna almost see each other many times, but never quite manage it. Similar to that episode of the X-Files set in two different times. But once Donna and the Doctor meet up again, they are on the hunt to figure out what is going on at the fat company.
Mark this day well, because you will see an ENDLESS amount of posts about the little walking chicklets that were once human fat, being the Ewoks of "Doctor Who", and if they haven't already made at least of a million of them to sell around the world they are crazy. Every kid who likes "Doctor Who" will demand an entire little of the little buggers for their own.
As the episode progresses we see the Doctor and Donna nearly die from falling out of a window washer cart, escape getting shot to death, and defeat the mean Ms. Foster the nanny to all the little walking blobs.
The effects in this one are very cute, and the chicklets are so sweet that many people watching the show will die of diabetes before it's finished. But the rip of the Close Encounters style ship didn't sit well with me.
Now on to the end, while I'm not going to spoil the last minute or two of the show, it was one of the few times when in the history of "Doctor Who" I was actually surprised, thus I won't ruin it here, but when the moment comes, I think you will go HOLY SHIT! It was just that good!
Just my 2¢
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Enterprise:
Writer: Russell T. Davies
Director: James Strong
Cast: David Tennant (The Doctor), Catherine Tate (Donna Noble), Sarah Lancashire (Miss Foster), Bernard Cribbins (Wilfred Mott), Jacqueline King (Sylvia Noble), Verona Joseph (Penny Carter), Jessica Gunning (Stacey Harris), Martin Ball (Roger Davey), Rachid Sabitri (Craig Staniland), Chandra Ruegg (Clare Pope), Sue Kelvin (Suzette Chambers) & Jonathan Stratt (Taxi Driver)
The Doctor is reacquainted with Donna, who helps him stop the manufacture of a deadly weight-loss pill...
Forgetting the bland Voyage Of The Damned at Christmas, the last time we saw The Doctor he had just bid farewell to Martha Jones, who decided to take a sabbatical from her adventures with the Time Lord. The premiere of season 4, Partners In Crime, opens in similar fashion to Martha's season 3 debut, with one-off companion Donna (Catherine Tate) also striding purposefully down a busy London street – but unaware The Doctor is on the same street, for exactly the same reason...
Donna, posing as a health and safety officer, infiltrates the offices of Adipose Industries, a business offering a miracle drug to help the country's overweight population. In extended sequences, it transpires that The Doctor is also investigating the mysterious company, although Donna and The Doctor comically avoid meeting each other directly. Donna eventually goes to meet slimmer Stacey Harris (Jessica Gunning), while The Doctor visits Martin (Roger Davey), who is very happy with the Adipose pill, but confused about why his burglar alarm has started going off at 1.10 am every morning...
The riddle is answered by Donna, as Stacey goes upstairs to the bathroom, leaving Donna to fiddle with a gold pendant Adipose Industries hand out as freebies to every customer. After absent-mindedly twisting the pill-shaped pendant, it triggers a reaction in Stacey upstairs – who watches in horror as her stomach flesh begins to pulsate, eventually turning her whole body to slush. Concerned, Donna bursts into the bathroom to find a puddle of Stacey's clothes on the floor and a small, marshmallow-like, chubby alien perched on the bathroom window! According to Adipose Industries' executive Miss Foster (Sarah Lancashire), the pendant triggered premature "parthenogenesis" in Stacey Harris, and she dispatches some of her employees to clean up the scene.
From there, we get a better understanding of Donna's current situation after her adventure with The Doctor in The Runaway Bride Christmas Special. She's living with her irritating mother Sylvia (Jacqueline King), but prefers to spend time with her "Gramps" Wilfred (Bernard Cribbins), who spends his days "up the hill" on his allotment, staring at the stars through a telescope. Donna hasn't told her family about her dalliance with aliens, or the real circumstances behind her wedding day fiasco, but makes it clear to her Gramps that she's waiting for "the right man" to come along – in similar fashion to how Torchwood's Captain Jack spent season 1 waiting for "the right kind of doctor".
There's a great scene for The Doctor inside the TARDIS, as he realizes he's talking to himself, signifying his unease at being a lone adventurer, but he's soon back at Adipose to single-handedly thwart Miss Foster's plans. He snoops on Miss Foster by using an outside window-cleaning rig to position himself outside her office window, to hear Miss Foster berating one of her employees, Penny Carter (Verona Joseph), who appears to have cottoned-on to her plan...
Donna also arrives, and there's a brilliant scene where The Doctor and Donna finally clasp eyes on each other, albeit from behind a sound-proof window and door, on opposite ends of Miss Foster's office. Possibly intended as a joke at Catherine Tate's brash nature during Runaway Bride, I thought it was particularly amusing of writer Russell T. Davies to have Donna shout and "overact" from behind solid glass, effectively having to mime her histrionics. It was a really nice touch, and the scene has a funny pay-off when Miss Foster calmly interjects on The Doctor and Donna's silent "conversation."
The Doctor and Donna are finally reunited, with Miss Foster in hot pursuit (armed with a sonic pen), which she uses to trap them both on the window cleaning-rig – with Donna dangling from the broken rig, and The Doctor seconds away from a freefall to death. However, after managing to knock Miss Foster's sonic pen away with a ricochet effect from his sonic screwdriver, he manages to get them both to safety inside the Adipose office block.
In typical villainous fashion, Miss Foster and two armed goons eventually locate The Doctor and Donna, and she monologues her nefarious plot: to use Earth as an alternative "breeding planet" for the Adiposian First Family. Behind the wall of the office block is a large system called The Inducer, which can make the 1 million users of her slimming pill go into parthenogenesis and transform into millions of tiny alien Adipose children immediately. The Doctor slips away from Miss Foster with Donna, by creating a sonic wave blast from his screwdriver and her pen, before finding a cupboard with access to The Inducer.
Miss Foster starts the Inducer system, and overweight pill-takers across London begin to contort in pain as their body fat coalesces into chubby aliens. The Doctor uses one of Adipose Industries' pendants to dampen the effects of The Inducers, but is at a loss once Miss Foster increases the power. Fortunately, Donna has another pendant to hand, and the two combined manage to override the system. Still, Miss Foster is happy that 10,000 Adipose have been created, and the thousands of chubby aliens march together down London streets, as their nursery ship (looking extremely similar to the Mothership in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind) descends to collect them.
On the roof, The Doctor and Donna watch the Adipose babies float upwards to the nursery ship through the night sky, along with Miss Foster. The Doctor warns her to escape the ship's tractor beam, but she's convinced she'll be handsomely rewarded by the Adiposian First Family for her duties as nanny. But, of course, as The Doctor warned, the Adiposians have to need for a "foster mother" now that their children have been born, and she plummets to the ground.
With disaster averted (or at least limited) by The Doctor, Donna practically invites herself along for more adventures. The Doctor only seems to half-remember inviting Donna along once before, but now she's convinced it's the right thing to do. In fact, she's already fully packed with suitcases filling the boot of her car. The Doctor, despite being lonely, makes it clear that things got complicated with Martha, but seems happy once Donna makes it clear that she doesn’t fancy him.
Donna leaves her car parked in an alley next to the TARDIS, puts the car keys in a nearby bin, and phones her mum to say goodbye. Just before she leaves, Donna asks a blonde-haired girl to keep an eye out for her mum, and as she rushes off to be with The Doctor, the girl turns around and reveals herself as Rose! Then, Rose walks away, fading like a ghost, until she disappears...
The episode closes with Gramps still in his allotment looking through his telescope at the stars, as the TARDIS spins into view, with The Doctor and Donna clearly visible through its open front door. As Gramps yelps with joy, the TARDIS ascends to the heavens, taking his granddaughter on the ride of her life...
Russell T. Davies manages to deliver a very effective premiere, which entertainingly reintroduces Donna Noble and tweaks her character away from the irritating loudness that caused such upset in The Runaway Bride special. There are moments when Donna's feisty nature comes through, but it's tempered by a more whimsical air and infectious enthusiasm. Above all, it's just nice to have a companion who categorically has no intention of smooching with The Doctor, and therefore should result in a fresher Doctor/companion relationship.
The episode's basic idea is perhaps better suited to The Sarah Jane Adventures, but the sense of fun and some genuinely funny moments help make it palatable for adult audiences. And I'm sure kids will love the adorable Adipose babies, as you can already imagine them as cuddly toys for Christmas '08. The sequences with the hundreds of Adipodes were apparently created using the "Massive FX" computer software used in Lord Of The Rings, and it's certainly a noticeable improvement over the swarms of Daleks we've seen on the show before now.
Partners In Crime certainly kept me entertained throughout, and I was struck by the instant chemistry between The Doctor and Donna, with Catherine Tate particularly enjoyable, and David Tennant now firmly embodying the wandering Time Lord with a level of authority not seen since Peter Davison's days on the show. He just lacks the iconic presence of Tom Baker, really, but he's still marvellous to watch bounce through scenes.
And what about the surprise early appearance from Rose? I didn't see that coming, although I did realize it was Rose just from the colour/style of her hair, before her face was revealed. Is that sad? It looks likely she's season 4's "arc" element -- to be sprinkled throughout the 13 episodes -- but why is she back? Her ghost-like disappearance hints at the likelihood she's found a way to cross dimensions from her own parallel universe into ours, but for what purpose?
Overall, Partners In Crime was a competent, efficient and entertaining start to the new season. There were the usual gripes with Doctor Who in evidence (the overuse of the sonic screwdriver, primarily), and I'm confused about Gramps musing on the secrets of the universe – as he debuted in Voyage Of The Damned as a local awaiting alien invasion because the previous two Christmases both featured alien attacks on London – but never mind. Doctor Who and Torchwood have always featured populations with implausible reactions to alien first contact, and very bad memories...
All said, I found this to be a good episode with more to recommend than to pick fault with. Catherine Tate might not be as physically attractive as Billie Piper and Freema Agyeman, but she does bring a welcome change of dynamic and her character has definitely improved from Runaway Bride on the evidence of this. I'm more excited about the possibilities of season 4 than I was yesterday.
The Good
1. Catherine Tate and David Tennant. No, I didn’t like Donna in The Runaway Bride either, but she was absolutely fine in this opener. Tate's comic timing boosted some scenes, and her interaction with David Tennant was great to watch.
2. The Adipose were extremely cute creations, and I particularly liked the visuals for them en masse.
3. Sarah Lancashire had a clichéd role as an evil executive, but she was still fun to watch trotting around in black spectacles and blood-red lipstick.
4. The comedy can sometimes be eye-rolling on Doctor Who, but there were some great moments of comedy in this episode – particularly regarding Donna and The Doctor's near-misses, her mention of the Titanic spaceship over Buckingham Palace as "a hoax", Gramps missing a giant spaceship floating past behind him, and when it's revealed Donna keeps her car packed just in case she finds The Doctor.
5. The unexpected appearance by Billie Piper as Rose. The show has difficulty keeping secrets – so we already know Rose was due back in season 4 – but not in the first episode!
The Bad
1. The story worked well, but I'm not a fan of the sillier plots Doctor Who often deals in – particularly because I thought the idea behind Sarah Jane Adventures' creation was to move the more kid-friendly stories into that show. I know the show has to tailor for 8-year-olds as well as 80-year-olds, but I think plots about fat-based aliens growing out of peoples' bodies would be best suited on the Sarah Jane show.
2. Yes, more overuse of the sonic screwdriver to get out of any plot dead-ends and tight spots. It's almost painful.
3. Bernard Cribbins already seems to be the best family member for a companion since Jackie Tyler.
4. It feels like Russell T. Davies has a basic story template that he refuses to budge from, which meant this episode mostly felt like it was on rails whenever it focused on Adipose Industries and Miss Foster. The "evil company" and "evil business person" is a staple of Who, Torchwood and Sarah Jane.
The Geeky
1. Actor Howard Atfield, who played Donna's father Geoff in The Runaway Bride, died after filming that 2006 special, so his character was replaced by Bernard Cribbins as Donna's grandfather.
2. This episode features the first use of Massive FX software on television; after its creation by New Zealand 's WETA special-effects house to create crowd scenes of digital characters in the Lord Of The Rings trilogy.
Rating: 3 / 5
And with a change of personnel. Martha My Dear has taken leave for a while. Pixie Minogue was only a temporary substitute. Leaving us with the return of Donna (Catherine Tate).
Now I'm aware of a fair amount of Tate-hate out there. There exists a remarkably large group of Tate-haters, or Taters as I'll refer to them from now. And I don't get why this is.
Sure, you might not like her sketch show. I don't myself. But that's no reason to hate the woman. It's not as if she walks around all day going "Am I bovvered". I've seen her perform well in enough other things, such as 'Scenes of a Sexual Nature' or 'Big Train', that I'm able to separate her from the bovveredness.
Though if there's one justifiable weapon that the Taters possess it's that her character of Donna from two Christmases ago was a bit of an irritant. And I'd agree that if she played the role exactly like that for a full season then it would be an annoying show. However, judging from tonight's episode she's changed her approach. It was a nicely more restrained performance (apart from a moment or two at the end). She showed she can do the sober stuff as well as the funny.
If she continues the same way then she should, I hope, quieten a lot of the Taters.
But enough of the Tater waffling....... what about the rest of the show?
It was the best opening episode yet of new-Who. I may have said that this time last year but I was right then and I'm right again now. The story was fun and original and moved along at a very good pace.
The comedy elements were pretty sharp. I enjoyed the miming scene between the Doctor and Donna, and even though I could tell what the punchline to that was going to be I still laughed. I also laughed a lot at the actions of the Adipose, which I think are the best bizarro creations that new-Who has done so far. Looking like a Barbapapa family reunion these 'things' scuttled about in their hundreds. And in one case slid down a car bonnet like it was a ride. Well done to the effects team that did them.
Would it be weird to say I want a soft toy version of one?
Sarah Lancashire played a fine baddie. Though I felt her end scene could have been done better. That was the only down point of the ep to me.
David Tennant remains a brilliant Doc. And he and Tate look to have a winning dynamic together. I like that they've stated this early on that they're going to be 'just mates'. We've had enough of the girlies fawning over him.
Speaking of which.......... Her? There? Whoa. How?
It's going to be cool finding out. I'm looking forward greatly to the rest of the season. And I've been told they'll be visiting some worlds that are even more alien than London.
Scary.
The Handsome 12th Doctor
Now the first fifteen minutes is played very much like a like romantic comedy where the Doctor and Donna almost see each other many times, but never quite manage it. Similar to that episode of the X-Files set in two different times. But once Donna and the Doctor meet up again, they are on the hunt to figure out what is going on at the fat company.
Mark this day well, because you will see an ENDLESS amount of posts about the little walking chicklets that were once human fat, being the Ewoks of "Doctor Who", and if they haven't already made at least of a million of them to sell around the world they are crazy. Every kid who likes "Doctor Who" will demand an entire little of the little buggers for their own.
As the episode progresses we see the Doctor and Donna nearly die from falling out of a window washer cart, escape getting shot to death, and defeat the mean Ms. Foster the nanny to all the little walking blobs.
The effects in this one are very cute, and the chicklets are so sweet that many people watching the show will die of diabetes before it's finished. But the rip of the Close Encounters style ship didn't sit well with me.
Now on to the end, while I'm not going to spoil the last minute or two of the show, it was one of the few times when in the history of "Doctor Who" I was actually surprised, thus I won't ruin it here, but when the moment comes, I think you will go HOLY SHIT! It was just that good!
Just my 2¢
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Jesus
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...can't wait can't wait can't wait.
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I don't know where else online to see new and classic Who.
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It was okay. Not as good as Smith & Jones for a series opener. Tate may not be as bad as in the Christmas special, but there was little here to suggest she might actually be good. It's next week's episode that I'm looking forward to - set in Pompeii and filmed on the 'Rome' set. Bring on Volcano Day! But enough with the incessant music already. Not every single second needs to be scored.
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Has been a fun revival. My son and I enjoy it every week.
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This episode was written by Russell T (Ooh, missus! Where's me screwdriver?) Davies. Save up your downloadage credits for the next one instead. It's got a volcano in it.
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But the presence of Billie in it knocks some points off. I hope she's not going to be in this season too much... Catherine Tate was less annoying than I expected, although I've have preferred they kept Martha as the companion.
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I was a bit disappointed in it. is no1 guna mention the lame job they did pimping the theme tune??? Kill off Tate and unghost Rose
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and whilst she was certainly less annoying here than in the Christmas special - she's still got a long long way to go to reach the heights of Rose and Martha. Not only were they good characters (and good actresses) they both were a little bit fit. I liked the mime scene, thought the aliens were very silly. Also suprised no-one has mentioned Sarah Lancashires Wile E Coyote death - that was rather lame. I'll keep watching, coz it still might get better. Tennant is definitely a great Doctor.
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cuz this doesnt look good at all...both are gonna negotiate seperately and the chances of a strike by one or both looks pretty good...think the wga hurt production? this will kill it...and the economy of los angeles and america with it
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At least you're willing to acknowledge that Tate has improved her character since she last appeared. That's a start. In the coming weeks we may see that she can be completely serious for a whole episode or two, and you may decide to cease your Tater roasting (I can do these all day, no problem). And btw, I did say that Sarah Lancashire's end was poor too. I like your Wile E Coyote reference.
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I mean come on this was the series opener and what was the huge villain he had to face? A bunch of fatbabies from space? And a villain whose idea of being menacing was to take her glasses off when delivering one line and then put them on again for the next line (a move commonly known as the David Caruso gambit I believe) and as for Catherine Tate, I'm sorry but she is just shit. I did like how the Doctor had that kind of oh-shit-did-I-say-I-would-call-you moment when she mentioned how he had invited her to come with him but overall, this was a really dull episode. Why do they keep letting Rusty Davies write these things?
Speaking of writing things, I appreciate that some people will not have seen it and will want to know all about what happens in an episode but telling us every single thing that happened just doesn't count as a review and worse, it undermines the efforts of the other people who are submitting reviews and trying not to give stuff away -
Why have a review where the whole episode is described in detail? What you want in a review is opinions of how good the episode is and just a brief synopsis that doesn't give away too much. By the H Christ-child... I thought the episode was OK but it's probably going to be the weakest of all 13. It didn't match up to the IMO brilliant 'Smith & Jones' of last year (the intro to Martha Jones, featuring the hospital being transported to the Moon by the Judoon...platoon, one of Russell T Davies's best). I liked the Adipose enemies (if you can call them that!), the shots of hundreds of them were brilliantly done for the budget of this series, they were aided by WETA Digital I believe. As usual though, the story idea was too big to be fully realised in 45 minutes, but in the end this one was mainly about bringing Catherine Tate's character back. The Pompeii episode looks to be like...an episode of 'Rome' but Doctor Who style. Excellent!
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That cunt needs to go. NOW. I'm really hoping I can last the full season, because there is at least one good episode per run, but Catherine Fucking Tate??? I hate that ugly ginger bitch. I find her to be the most irritating person on tv. Even when she's not talking she bugs the shit out of me. And my wife. And my mother in law. In fact my entire fucking family... and my friends. Actually, come to thhink of it I don't know one person who actually likes her. Wierd that, considering her popularity.
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I usually do shorter reviews, but this specific one wasn't tailored directly for AICN, sorry. It's usually fairly obvious where the meat of the review begins, so just scan down to the last few paragraphs. I'll try and make sure future reviews aren't so detailed when I send them in.
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in so much that I didn't drive my foot through the screen when Tate was on it. Yes I do admit that her performance, and I use that term quite wrongly, has been massively toned down since The Runaway Bride but that was most likely due to the huge outcry and fan backlash since it was announced that Tate was on board the tardis full time. Seriously expectations were so low about what the result going to be that it would have to be a an incredibly poor episode to fail to reach them them. Fortune, luck and some skill prevented a complete crapfest unfolding before my eyes and I can't help but wonder how much greater an episode it would've been if the much better Sally Sparrow from last seasons Blink was the new assistant. Still, I'm going to watch it next week but it most improve and do it soon if this Tater is going to watch past episode 4 which is the limit at which I think I can tolerate Tate without going Postal. By the way Rose showing up in the first episode was SO clearly tacked on at a much later date that it obvious what RTD was doing. It screamed 'please don't write us off just yet. If you stick around well show you a bit more Rose if you do.' Well, sorry RTD I ain't biting. 3 more episodes to change my mind and no more. I REALLY can't fucking stand Catherine Tate......
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But I've just got home after a very long day working 14 hours managing a betting shop on Grand National day. It was not a good result for the bookies by the way.
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really fat babies? really? was it syupposed to be meancing? complete shite. here, have a special effects budget and use it on complete bollocks. why oh why does russell t still has his grubby fingers all over this series? give it to moffat who can give create quality epsiodes. i missed teh opening credits but because it stank so much i knew who fucking wrote it.
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Thanks Herc! I honestly appreciate it.
Now, if you could just get your damn Buffy DVD set off the page, it would be perfect. -
Downloaded it. Watched it. Loved it. It's a very solid season opener and I'm incredibly excited to see where this "jam packed" season takes us. Who fans will not be disappointed.
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was actually ok. death galore! - any writer will do apart from russell t
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I'm glad I saw the episode before reading the first "review." It is not necessary recounting the ENTIRE plot ... save yourself some time and typing by just sticking to what you thought of it. That said, I thought it was a pretty strong episode, better than the Xmas special by far. It is a good kickoff to what I'm hoping will be a great season. As far as Rose... let's just say a little internet searching will tell you why she is back...
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...I think she's a bit sexy. Erm...discuss....(cough)
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Left a lot of questions-- Like where the hell are they going to get another medic AND another technical genius? Damn. I was just getting to like Owen, and I ALWAYS like Tosh. I liked her even more after seeing how she got into Torchwood, and then a week later they off her?!?! Wahhh!!!!!
As I've been saying ALL this season of Torchwood has been quite good, though you wouldn't know it from looking at AICN.
Perhaps if Whedon writes an episode of Torchwood, or admits to watching it, or mentions that he's heard of it, we'll get some Torchwood news on here.
Anyway, Glad to see Doctor Who get some love, anyway. I won't look a gift Timelord in the mouth. -
i cant focus beyond that thing on the side of her chin.
if i was forced out of all the currect who universe it would be martha first, tosh season, and then gwen. -
I've been updating my search and no dice so far. And yeah, WTF was up with Torchwood? I refuse to believe *SPOILER* Owen and Tosh won't be back. Especially Tosh. I require her breasty English Asian-ness.
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less of the buffy bashing please. quite good who is below par wheldon. but yeah, torchwood has been rather good of late, even though it has some rather rediculous and hammy acting storylines.
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I can't get past how much I hate Cathetine Tate, no matter how toned down her character now is.
Pretty bland, forgettable episode really. Only the scene where the Doctor and Donna first spot each other, and the ending made it worth watching. -
I won the national today 7-1,thanks Babylon opression.My other horse Iron Man didn't even get over the second fence lol,thanks N.E.R.D. nation ;).......that ep was alright,harmless fun.Bernard Cribbens FTW.Why didnt Billie stick around to tell where the car keys were?,thats selfish.You lot will all watch every episode so don't tell fibs,why that would be like me saying that although in my opinion Torchwood is still really super crap and I'm glad that people who want to discuss it are trapped in the zone where they can talk about which characters would be able to help them buy a nice set of curtains and that everybody in Cardiff plays for whatever team they feel like like representing based on which side of the bed they got up on for infinity which is probably why Herc doesn't bother leaving a talkback (good) and that I'm well above it even though I watched it every week,accepted the good,laughed off the bad(and very bad) and would,in a sick kind of way miss it if it was gone.Glad Lee Evans got killed twice but I'm sure Tosh got killed because I said here last year that she is the only one I'd keep..Did anybody catch the first 3 Dalek episodes on BBC3 tonight?,ah how far we have come...http://tinyurl.com/3mwvx8...http://tinyurl.com/53xzt9...http://tinyurl.com/3oc2f8...http://tinyurl.com/3stk79..mind you,maybe not.
BTW The greatest wrestler of all time retired on Sunday but he left us a valuble lesson http://tinyurl.com/3f8kqo,that was an emotional TV moment for the ages :).Diamonds are forever and so is Ric Flair and Dr WHOOOOOOOOOO. -
It's hard to do cute well in a science fiction series, but this episode managed to carry it off quite well. One of the better Doctor Who episdes I've seen. And the surprise did surprise.
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Every episode I've seen follows the same formula: (1) government official / business person is an alien; (2) doctor's companion interacts with her seemingly retarded family members; (3) doctor has to rescue someone who's fallen over a ledge; (4) people run through steam corridors shouting incoherently; (5) doctor's companion delivers poorly written contemplative monologue; (6) doctor finds alien central control system and stands their manipulating it with sonic screwdriver while babbling incoherently; (7) this causes the day to be saved in a cut away scene; (8) viewers left with unsatisfying ending to incoherent plot. Always in that order.
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But I don't think I could take Catherine Tate.
She was bad enough for a single episode, but a whole string of them? Gag me with a sock, it is just too much. -
The best that can be said about Catherine Tate is that she wasn't totally repellent in tonight's episode. But damn she was close. Wooden acting, accent all over the place and looks grim. I love Dr Who and yet her presence is probably going to be the reason I stop watching in a couple of episodes.
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Those buggers look like the critters chasing after the kitten in that internet photo captioned, "Every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten."
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I didn't read the review; it was too long, and my time is valuable.
Is there an executive summary?
Send it out for coverage. -
Apr 05, 2008 11:20:57 PM CDT
Does Anyone thing that RTD's subtle hints for the series are not
by darfurontherocks
I think that he is going down the well too many times... Can anyone say that the villain this season will have a vendetta against the Doctor based on love?!
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One question: Would Galifry exist in alternate dimensions? Or do the Time Lords transcend dimensions and are completely wiped out?
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Did that happen on season 2? they seemed to be up to ep 12 last time I checked, and I didn't hear anything. If not, then why the fuck am I bothering with watching the train rack that was season 1?
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And I enjoyed it
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Yeah, not two minutes after I posted that I checked isohunt and grabbed it. Thoughts: Adipose = RTD thinking Domo-kun would make a fine addition to the Who list of alien races, the miming scene killed, and whether we all knew she was back or not seeing BP at the end was indeed a "HOLY SHIT" moment. Overall a fun episode; it looks like this season really will be lighter in tone. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to do an image search for Naoko Mori so I can continue mourning the loss of Toshiko's cleavage.
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I have a chance to see Catherine Tate in Mrs. Radcliffe's Revolution at the Philly Film Fest on MOnday. Have any Brits seen this flick? Should I definitely make time for it or find something else to fill that time slot in my fest schedule?
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Catherine Tate looks like the biggest fag-hag in the world. Look at the evolution of Companions over his run. You've got the "love interest" (Rose), The "rebound-but-only-in-a-friend-way" (Martha) and now, the "fag-hag" (Catherine Tate), Russel T Davies should stand down and give the job to Stephen Moffitt. Thank you Russell for reviving Dr. Who. We'll never forget you for that. Now please go away before you ruin it forever.
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And with Owen gone, we might see Martha come back? Anyway, for those who missed Torchwood, Martha is now a member of UNIT (thanks to a little recommendation by the Doctor). Season 2 of Torchwood was excellent, but unfortunately AICN chose not to cover it-- at all-- ever.
Lotsa Buffy news, though. If you like that sort of thing.
Anyway. I don't dislike Tate. It might be nice to have a companion that isn't hot for the Doctor. She was funny, and had a few moments that endeared her to me. We'll see how it goes. I still miss Martha, though. (Hottest. Companion. Ever.)
And Rose! WTF?!?! How can Rose be there? And when the Doctor sees her, how badly will that hurt him?
I have to admit, when I saw that sonic pen, I though for a moment that the nanny was actually The Rani. No such luck. I guess all the Timelords are dead now for real.
Still waiting for Brian Blessed to have a cameo (or whole episode) as King Yrcanos. That would SO rock. (Blessed is still around, isn't he?) -
And the rest of her. She was great. I'll miss her.
And Owen too.
Buy hey! We've still got Ianto! That's something, isn't it? Isn't it?
I just hope Torchwood doesn't piss on my dislike for Rhys and make him a member of the team. I DO. NOT. LIKE. RHYS. Gwen could do SO much better than that sod. -
Just watched the episode.A few thoughts....I like Tennant enormously and he really is a very likable presence.In fact it's great that the show's true star is the title character.The story was strangely uninvolving...especially after the dire Christmas special with botox minogue and that fucking hilarious(for all the wrong reasons)fat couple.JUst a genuinely mediocre effort with terrific Tennant. Strange that the effects are garnering such plaudits..the Adipose were just silly little things and their mother ship??I couldn't understand the reference.Why did the SFY crew so blatantly rip off CE3K mother ship?No ref needed here.The Nanny's death was just plain daft and it is indeed worrying that FUCKING Tate's presence is already redefing the show as a comedy. Then there are the two main points of conention.....NUMBER 1:Rose.....an obviously tacked on scene presumably shot out of context to fit Ms Piper in and added ...WHy??Thematically shouldn't the show concentrate on Donna and the Doctor as a reintroduction to a new companion.Rose's appearance(complete with downbeat Doomsday music illfittingly edited in between Donnas joyous theme as she races..er,around a corner to...do something...for no real reason.Why not leave the keys hidden in the bins in the dark alley next to the car????All very 'added-on'.Im guessing this is to guarantee interest in S4 incase people really do turn off because of the direction/THAT FUCKING WOMAN. Rose looked seriously monkey faced too,no smile,maybe an evil glint?Don't like her hair too much but still bangable.......Then there's Nmber 2: Donna.Lets start with the character...don't like her and I'm already a little tired of meeting companions family etc.,how they need excitement in their drab lives.The scene with Gramps was overblown and I find this rapidly growing number of smaltzy scenes rather offputting.Gramps cheering Donna..in a flying box with a weird fella??Rubbish.Rose on a beach was far more expertly made to elicit emotion.Donna is grating both in looks and sound)The moments in the episode when she stood about doing Fuck all while the Doctor saved the day were painful.Maybe,thats the point..she'll finally be proved later in the series to be a valuable companion.BUt my thoughts were "Why is she there?Where are Martha's jiggling bum cheeks?"
I still see no real reason as to why Martha was jettisoned as she had grown to be a fairly good companion and by the end of S3 had found a fair balance with Tennant.
Then there's the real Number Two:Catherine FUCKING Tate.I don't like her voice,I don't find her funny,I loathe her one-note actingstyle and I genuinely cannot watch her.It's like I said in another Talkback:I can literally smell her.It's like old chip batter and off vinegar.I appreciate young girls love Tennant but I'm certainly not sitting at home wanking to FUCKING Tate on a Saturday night!No Siree.I'll save up for hopefully more Boomer nudie shots in BSG.Grace Park I love you.That FUCKING Tate.I love how she overly expresses certain WORDS when she's getting ANGRY and ends her sentences LOSIN' 'ER ACCEN'!!Every time. -
could have used a little more love for Torchwood here this season. It was an outstanding season.
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http://tv-links.cc/...and there are a ton more that are just as good...including one that for the life of me, i cant figure out how they stay online, as they charge to stream certain shows...what bullocks
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Cover it next year, please! Some of us don't Zone.
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Sorry, but after watching last night's Episode 1 of new season of Who, I'm simply crying at what that total prick Russell T Davies has done with our once beloved show. Yes, congratualtions for getting it back on air, but as someone else said above - please f*ck off now!!
I mean really, anything RTD writes is a total fucking embarrassment!!
And maybe it has been said elsewhere, that I've missed, but his pathetic ripping off of Joss Whedon is just UNBELIEVABLE!!
Season 2 .. Cybermen in an alternative universe .. our character find their alternate versions driving about in a van fighting the baddies. Hmmmm... 'Dopplegangland' anyone??
And Torchwood? What a farce! I actually found myself screaming at the TV at the opening of episode 1 of new season. Captain Jack's been gone without word, the team are trying to carry on the good fight alone, but messing up. They get caught up in a hostage situation with the baddie holding onto an innocent, gun to her head. Suddenly a shot rings out, and badd ie is dead. 'Don't fucking say it!" I scream. But no, Captain Jack stands there looking oh so smarmy and smiles at the camera 'Did you miss me?'. For FUCK'S SAKE!! A TOTAL rip-off of the Buffy Season 3 opener.
And now this season, a character dies but is brought back to life by his friends .. but OH NO .. he's brought back something evil from the other side, that has to be fought and defeated. FUCK OFF RTD, your patehric drivel writing and rip-offs do NOT impress this fan!!
And Tosh's death scene .. and video after. Declaring her love for Owen. I guess this was meant to be moving, but I just watch incredulously. Did ANYONE buy into this sudden Tosh-Owen unrequited love crap?? With Willow and Xander, it was totally believable, and well written. Owen is a f*cking prick! What did he EVER do do engender such feelings from Tosh? Why would ANYONE fall for such an asshole? NO REASON! Viewers hated Owen for those reasons, but somehow RTD thinks it will add pathos to his show to have Tosh love him while he is oblivious. Well sorry, but NO .. just makes Tosh seems a total prick too! Not as much as RTD for writing this crap though!!
And while I'm here .. SFX Magazine .. if you continue your total love-fest of all things RTD, complte with 4 or 5* reviews for Dr Who episodes, then after being with you from #1, I'm gone!! Sci-Fi Now is definitely the #1 UK mag now - telling it like it REALLY is! Torchwood and Dr Who are SHIT under RTD!!(But Moffat RULES!!!)
Sorry for the rant ... first time posting here, and just HAD to get this of my chest!!
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Loved it from start to finish. The march of the Adipose was the cutest thing ever, still have a big cheesy grin on my face! Want one now please, better still lots of little squeezy ones. Tate was surprisingly good, and will only get better. Better companion than Martha I'm saying! Could be the best series yet, can't wait to go up Pompeii next week!
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...it was gradually going down hill after Eccleston left, and now that the awful Catherine Tate has joined the cast, RTD continues with his bland and amature scripts, and Billy Piper is returning it's become fucking unwatchable, bland sci-fi.
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of a season
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Russel T Davis stated in Confidential that he wanted a alien that wasn't scary after all they are babies, and I admit it will be a big seller at Christmas. Bernard Cribbens was a replacement for the man who played Donna's dad in the Runaway Bride who sadly died, also I might point out that Bernard also traveled by Tardis in 1965 in an alternative adventure on the big screen in Daleks - Invasion Earth 2150AD.
I didn't dislike Catherine Tate in her first story imagine if that happened to you on your wedding day, I would act similarly. Here she was more restrained and as good as either Martha or Rose as they all had someing wrong with them ie they were there to scream. You just have to see Martha in Torchwood to see a different aspect that is not the scream queen that female passengers of the Tardis always seem labled with. -
Apr 06, 2008 5:15:12 AM CDT
So.... To summarise whats been said on the Talkback so far...
by gabba-uk
1: Catherine 'FUCKING' Tate. 2: Missing Matha Jones and that INCREDIBLE arse of hers. 3: Fuck off RTD and stick to Torchwood in the future, because that shows format sits better with your writing style. 4: Catherine 'FUCKING' Tate. 5: Rose clearly bolted in at a later date, smacking of desperation. 6: Most prepared to give it 3/4 episodes before changing channels permantly. 7: Catherine 'FUCKING' Tate. That about wraps it up for this TB I think.
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let me just point out that there is now a new collective noun for those who hate her. Tater. The only one I can think of for those who like her is a Tragic of Tate fans.
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I thought the bit with Donna and the dr in miss foster's office was funny and it made great use of tate comic timing. Sarah lancashire was out of her depth as the villian. Less dialoug could be a good thing or not. but flat it was. Donnas mom was very annoying.
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Apr 06, 2008 5:39:53 AM CDT
Of course there is no mention of Cribbens being in the Dalek inv
by wowsah156
Cribbens must be a big who fan. He doesnt reallly need to work, but ilove the fact that he is part of Who again!! Watch the Peter Cushing Who movie to see Cribbens turned into a Dalek agent!!
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11 minutes in, look at the taxi, it has the letters "ATMOS" on the windscreen. Apparently this is a clue for future episodes?
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I'm still a little puzzled by the sloppy Rose inclusion.Dammit,why did Donna run around a fucking corner to dump car keys in broad daylight of a group of rubberneckers??What lousy plotting.And why so serious,Rose?At a fucking guess I'd say she is searching for The Doctor just as Donna was at the beginning as a Dalek threat has entered her universe/dimension...blah..blah...I'm getting bored myself now.Dammit,I hope theres a cople of spiffing Family of Blood/Blink gems in this season or this could be the right time to scrap seasons...and..THAT WOMAN...how strange her face is.I mean,really strange..."Hang on!" "What does it (cue deep throaty spittle voice) LOO' LI' 'M DOIN'?" Or whatever that 'thing' said...ugghh.Fishwife.
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First off - great to see the usual Sunday morning, Post Who crowd back in action.
What a great episode to kick off the new season, and well worth waiting for. (Was it me, or did this season seem a long time coming ?)
The Adipose - yup cutesy little slabs of fat, and how long until they're on Woolworths shelves as the latest "must have" ? They were specifically designed to be toys, I feel. Catherine Tate will be a fanastic companion, much better than Martha Jones, who I felt was a little "flat" as a character, and I never took to her family - especially her mother with those eyebrows. Bernard Cribbins is hopefully going to be a recurring character. He deserves that. Finally - Rose is back...then disappears. Here's the RobinP theory. Is she going to be popping up here and there throughout the season "Bad Wolf" style ? I hope so. -
Doctor: long pause,staring directly at Donna.Then slowly moves his gaze from her face to her feet.His eyes slowly follow up her body rejoining her eyes.His upper lip turns and his left eye squints "Do you think....I....would....ever think of YOU in that way.I used to bang Teegan and receive blow jobs from Billie Piper.Have you ....ever..heard of anyone rebounding from birds like THA' to....some-THING like you.Good day,fishwife."
The Doctor walks into the Tardis as Donna looks on,jaw literally dropped(in that wonderful way Catherine FUCKING Tate can only do).The Tardis gears up and begins to disappear as Donna regains some composure enough to shout "OOOOIIII....' AIN' FINISHED WIV Y.."But the Tardis' engine noise drowns her out.Last scene interior of Tardis.Doctor,laughing,champagne in hand."Fuck it.I'm not THAT lonely.Hahahahahahaah!"Cue DR WHO 'scream' theme tune.NEXT EPISODE: The Doctor and the Dame.Cue fleeting images of the Doctor looking pleased "The 1980's.Fantastic!" Ext.A stately home.Int. An overly makeupped old woman being pushed via wheelchair by two shirtless muscle built men.Dame "WE must stop this ...DOCTOR!" Cut to The Doctor running through hallways towards camera.Cut to a normal middle class bedroom as a wife,in bed,turns to her sleeping husband."I'll put the light out soon,love.JUst let me finish this chapter of Dame Bab's new romance." Quick cut of same wife screaming hysterically.Cut to Doctor looking concerned.Cut to OLd Dame Cartland laughing.Cut of Doctor running toward camera.Last cut of Dame Barbara Cartland,one finger tickling the chin oif one muscle boy as with the other hand she waves on 2 little dogs."Poodles?TAKE HIM!"Cue:Doctoe Who 'scream' theme tune.....written by RTD. -
what the fuck is the point in publishing a review at the top of the page with a glaring spoiler in it about the surprise at the end of this episode, only to publish another review further down that has been intentionally left spoiler-free?
there were no spoiler tags at the top of these reviews. But luckily for me I live in the UK and saw the episode last night. I felt it was very silly and lighthearted, exactly the sort of Dr Who epeisode I can't stand. However, the surprise at the end made it worth sitting through the silliness. I just feel a bit sorry for any American fans who might have read this spoiler before getting to watch the new series launch next week. -
I'm no RTD fan either, but you got to give him credit when he does it right. And the first episode was a pretty good one and worked perfectly as a launching episode for series 4. And I really hated the idea of Catherine Tate as a sidekick as well, but she did a good job in this episode, her character being much more low-key than in the Xmas bride. (Plus I like the fact she isn't in love with the doctor). I know the AICN talkbacks are a place where many people spread their inner hate while counting down the days to their own suicides, but really, quit bitching if you can't filter the nuggets of gold from the shit.
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Jeez is that device getting so cheesy! I remember back in the olden days the sonic would make an appearance once every 8 episodes or so. Now its used as mentioned in the first review every two minutes to help the stuck plot along. It's now a case of "Dr comes across major seemingly insurmountable problem - Dr simply waves sonic screwdriver at it and problem solved!"
LAZY LAZY LAZY!
1.Cut down the sonic screwdriver (maybe give the writer only 6 chances to use it per series, they can argue the toss as to who gets the chances.
2. Cut down Tennant's constant gurning and wild eyed expressions. Please, you are a highly experienced timelord, little should phaze you now!
3. Cut down on all the running about that also seems to require the use of the screwdriver eventually when a door presents itself.
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Hey, I made up a word that other people are using. Go me! I still believe all these Taters need to get the chip off their shoulder and give her a chance. Even if it's only as far as next week when it looks to be an ep with real monsters and a genuine threat.
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meh. wasn't a fan of her in this episode.
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...I cant look at Billie Piper in the same light since I saw her in the nude on that callgirl series.
It just seemed wrong...even after 5 or 6 viewings. -
...that was SOOOO BAD. Lazy writing. Cute xmas-merchandise-ready-to-go aliens (I figure RTD has a cut on every one sold). This could only appeal to nine year olds and pre mature adults as I think they removed any pretence of actual drama out of it. RTD needs to go but unfortunately I fear the BBC have already got him doing the next specials after this series. By the way, Steven Spielberg wants his mothership back and Wylie Coyote his hovering in mid air before falling gag back. I wouldn't bother wasting bandwidth downloading this.
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where can i have 5 or 6 viewings of this alleged Bille Piper nude scene?
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If there was a concentration camp for hopeless nerds and social maladapts, and the torture and degradation were shown live on streaming video 24/7, I would be doing that very thing *right now*. And probably jerking off to it, too.
I mean, there's just so much idiocy here to choose from. The guy who thinks any alternate-universe story is a ripoff of Buffy - fucking *Buffy*, for fuck's sake. I mean, Jesus. Do people not read books anymore?
There's the insane frothing hate for Catherine Tate, which just strikes me as a wildly disproportionate reaction to a character on a fucking childrens' show - as well as being hilariously revisionist of recent history. I bet half of you missing the good old days of Rose spent the first year complaining about what a chav she was.
Ditto for all the whinging about Davies - "He can't write for shit! Trust me, I've seen everything he's ever done!"
Honestly, though, I just don't get the mentality of people who spend their time watching things just so they can come complain about them online later. I never bitch about things on the internet, because I don't make a habit of watching things I don't like! And even if I *do* mistakenly catch an episode of "Bionic Woman" or whatever, it somehow doesn't work me up into the stroke-inducing levels of rage you weirdos seem to get off on. -
Says the man posting on AICN. And you "never bitch about things on the internet". Although you're more than willing to bitch on the internet about people bitching about things on the internet. And just how long is it going to take people to understand the difference between a "children's show" and a "family show"? No sci-fi show aimed at kids is ever going to get 8.4 million viewers in the UK. They're not all kids and they're not all nerds. You may as well accept it - in the UK Doctor Who is a mainstream success among all age groups.
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We've heard about it before. I always assumed it to be a charter of sorts. I guess now it is a council or governing body.... any ideas?
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There's been discussion about this on the OG boards and it seems a little unclear. It has been mentioned in several episodes including 'Rose'. Then it seemed to be a treaty between alien races since the Doctor claimed that the invading aliens were in breach of a certain article of the Shadow Proclamation. But this episode made it sound like an actual organisation since Sarah Lancashire's character was afraid the Doctor was going to report her to the Proclamation. My guess is that it's some kind of Galactic UN. This seemed like such a blatant drop of the phrase that I hope we learn more in future episodes, rather than it merely being a bit of internal continuity-wank.
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Awful, awful woman. Casting her when the wonderful Carey Mulligan was such a sure-fire hit as Sally Sparrow last season is simply madness.
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>> I mean, there's just so much idiocy here to choose from. The guy who thinks any alternate-universe story is a ripoff of Buffy - fucking *Buffy*, for fuck's sake. I mean, Jesus. Do people not read books anymore?
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Of COURSE alternative universes have been done a gazillion times (Sliders, anyone). The point I made was that in this case, they find their alternate selves driving about in a van, fighting the forces of evil - a DIRECT rip-off from the Buffy episode. RTD soooo wants to be Joss Whedon but hasn't the BILLIONTH of the talent!! So sad to see ... -
The talentless should crawl away somewhere and die.
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Apr 06, 2008 9:41:03 AM CDT
I can't believe I am actually saying this...Torchwood > Who?
by desmondo
I actually really enjoyed Torchwood this season. A lot of pretty good episodes. The origins episode. The finale. James Marsters. Owen beign dead thing. The wedding. It's still rough around the edges, but definately more watchable than the awful season 1.
OK yeah I don't like Catherine Tate. Nobody does. But she acted a bit better in this episode fine. The problem will always be however in a cast of good looking people she stands out like a sore thumb. Thats sound harsh, it is - I guess I didn't realise how acustomed I have become to seeing pretty people on TV.
Also could Russell have made it ANY CLEARER that Donna doesn't fancy the doctor. YES WE GET IT. She doesn't like him like that. Your not doing that storyline again. WE KNOW!!!
All I'll say is looking forward to Stephen Moffat episodes. And the inveitable return of Davros, which I'm sure will be the worst kept secret ever. -
regarding your comments above implying that people shouldn't bitch about Dr Who and your remark about 'not watching things you don't like'..... well my reply to you is: people USED TO like Dr Who, that's why they're bitching about it now.
The sad fact is, once upon a time Dr Who was not aimed at an under-10's audience. You just have to watch Tom Baker's run to realise that, in spite of the wobbly sets and dodgy latex monsters, it was actually quite a genuinely morbid, serious sci-fi series.
Has Russell T Davies given Dr Who the kiss of life, or the kiss of death?
On the one hand, he has successfully re-launched it for a new younger audience, but on the other hand, even the darkest episodes so far in this re-launch have been lightweight family silliness compared to the more frightening 70s heyday of Dr Who. -
More like a recap.
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Basically a huge improvement all round on the wholly hit and miss first series. WHO 4.1? Yeah it was OK. Tate's wasn't half as annoying as she was last time out, the effects were fine, and a neat twist at the end to nudge another season arc. And Tennant has his Who thing down pat. next week - the Doctor goes to Vesuvius - expect aliens masterminding volcanic eruptions and some ripe scene-scoffing from guest stars Phil Davis and Peter Capaldi...
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Not sure yet, but I also do not *hate* her yet, as many others seem to. She is pretty funny. The conversation through the windows was priceless. The *big reveal* at the end has me worried, however, that it will be something they drag on all season. Please do not do that. I still have hope that we'll get a few more gems this year.
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I was thrilled, really fooking thrilled by the cameo surprise at the finale of the episode. I'm thinking Rose is trying to find the Doctor. Maybe she's been forced to do it by...Davros! Aha! Oh please let the Davros rumours be true. And I simply love Donna Noble. Love her. She's just a normal person and that's why she'll work out fine.
And I think Catherine Tate is fabulous. So there. -
This is one of those shows that just shouldn't work. A caustic assistant should wear thin. A CGI monster that looks an exile from a children's cartoon? Another bout of loneliness/chemistry? More running? It should have been a complete mess. But put it all together and somehow it all works, and works beautifully. It's fun, its funny and lightly dramatic, it tugs the heartstrikes, drops in a few little was-that-foreshadowing lines and then sucker-punches the fans (in a good way) at the end just when we feel comfortable. In tone, in style ... it's exactly what I wanted in my entertainment right now (not that I don't look forward in hopes of some grittier episodes ... I'm very curious to see how they will re-envision the Sontarans, especially given that they are one of the few old-school villains to dare assault Gallifrey directly).
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I can just see it now; Davros appears in the end-of series double episode, but he's been updated with a new voice, a completely different appearance, and his politically-incorrect 'wheelchair' replaced by a hovering skateboard or something.
Oh, and he'll be played camply by some comedian like David Walliams from 'Little Britain'. -
...Or did I dream that?
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Isn't Julian Bleach playing him? Has that all been made up?
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as The Master. And then he played The Master. In a couple of episodes. Last series.
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From what I understand it's a different actor playing him but the production are being faithful to the original depiction (i.e.Genesis..)so it looks like the series may be dealing with a breakdown of universes/times/dimension which will allow older/dead/lost characters to cameo.Apparently different kinds of Dalek will be encountered as will a red one.I'm still going to be watching the show regardless of my above ranting but....how cool that original rumour was about McGann coming back for an appearance.I always liked his look and attitude.Such a shame for McGann that it didn't work out for his 'generation'(?).It'd be nice to have seen him get a crack at a little guest-star shot(vertainly wouldn't do the audio books any damage business-wise).If they kill off Marth in the Sontaran episode....Ggggggrrr..red mist...descending....
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Watching 4.1 a second time, yes, the sonic screwdriver stuff has gotten out of hand. Could the Doctor really not find another way into the building, necessitating he blow open a fire exit-- complete with mini-explosion and sparks-- not once, but twice? Did he really need to use it to open a window FROM THE INSIDE? How does the nanny's sonic pen get through the window when the screwdriver couldn't? How does a sonic pen get through a triple deadlock seal? Why is the Doctor not keeping this miracle device and just chucking it in a bin at the end of the episode? It reminded me of 3.1, when the SS gets fried and the Doctor is forced to lock a door on his own. They even give it a close-up. Oy.And yeah, is the Shadow Proclamation still a proclamation or is it an organization now? I think RTD fucked up on that one.PS: Stop slagging off on Rhys, I like the character. I seriously doubt he'd be joining Torchwood though, he is just a truck driver/office manager type after all.
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I've seen Simm as one of the names suggested to play the Doctor when and if Tennant steps down, but I think it's someone's wishful thinking wanting to be made true. Wouldn't make any sense to have the Doctor and the Master trading off appearances.
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between The Doctor and Donna is one of the most entertaining things i've ever seen. Absolutely hilarious.
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i remmber the days when new dr who episodes were a shame to watch... kast night's was fun and filled me up fun like a ward bucket of custard...enough with the hate! it was great!
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Apr 06, 2008 1:33:10 PM CDT
Doctor Who and Torchwood...What the HELL is wrong with you peopl
by jilliannesix
First off...I am an american, who got to see the Torchwood finale AND the Doctor Who premiere last night. I loved them both, cried all the way through Torchwood and was left speechless at the end of Doctor Who. Why can't you people just enjoy the ride? Catherine Tate was brilliant. I, too, thought see was a hag in The Runaway Bride, but after repeated viewings, she softens quite a bit. Torchwood has improved by leaps and bounds this season, period. But I do not for the life of me understand why a good portion of you guys a)hate Donna, b)hate Rose, c)think The Doctor is a twat, etc...If you don't like it, don't watch it. As for me, and MANY people in the Northwest Louisiana area, we watch more BBC shows than network as it is. Doctor Who and Torchwood have a tremendous following here, and it's startling to read some of these talkbacks and I have to say, some of you are bang off WRONG. I don't know if you are just used to the crap TV we churn out as americans, but Doctor Who and Torchwood are on par with Buffy, Angel, Battlestar, The X-Files, basically some of the best sci-fi shows EVER. Basically, my message is stop being self-indulgent pricks and enjoy the damn ride like a true geek. Embrace it, because it won't be around forever...well, in Doctor Who's case it probably will, but nevermind that:)
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i don't know why but she just clicked for me as the Doctor's companion, or more as the human foil for all the galactic weirdness. I'd like to see her get over the Doctor as a romantic interest and go back for the adventure. She was cool on Torchwood too so I could handle seeing her there more. Hell, give her her own spinoff, but short of The Martha Jones Chronicles,
I'd really like to see her exploring the galaxy and universe again. -
Apr 06, 2008 2:02:13 PM CDT
Question: I just saw I, Claudius recently and in the first
by crichtonastronut
episode, the guy who played Agrippa looked and sounded exactly like Jon Pertwee who played the third Doctor, but the credits had him as John with some other last name. Anyone know if he used a diffrent name for some reason on either show?
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re:your comments above:
The fact that Russell T Davies has clearly aimed the new Dr Who 're-boot' at the 'Buffy' audience is exactly why it's starting to take a lot of criticism.
Buffy was a steaming pile of ludicrous shit. -
She handled the dramatic moments with a light touch and subtly flair for acting she has not revealed before. All the people moaning about her are basically pissed as she is not hot in the Rose or Martha way, get over it, The Doctor now has a companion who is in a way his equal and she ain't scared to stand up to him because she is not in love with him
It should change the whole shows feel and last nights episode was an excellent start, funny, quirky and moving, all the Who traits from since the show began.
As for the RTD writes gay discussion, its year 4, he is gay, time to awaken to the fact that of course a gay man will have certain ways of seeing and writing things, I repeat, year 4 its an old argument and one not really relevant to the good drama RTD creates. -
seriously, though,
Everyone with any real interest in science fiction is secretly holding out for the Steven Moffat series next year. Why? Because Moffat has written the darkest, cleverest episodes since the re-boot started.
Personally, my distaste for Russell T Davies' stories is nothing to do with him being gay at all (for all I know or care, Steven Moffat could be gay too). It is simply to do with the fact that Davies' storylines revolve around the same central theme every single time (sinister organisation takes over central London/Cardiff with army of sinister iPods/Christmas trees), and they often involve stupid goofy things like humans with cat makeup on, or silly chubby aliens that look like Teletubbies. -
The best series ever was Tom Baker's run in the seventies. Proper disturbing, thought-provoking sci-fi. And most of his adventures took him right across time and space throughout the galaxy in his unlimited time-and-space vehicle, the Tardis.
For some inexplicable reason, Russell T Davies seems to think that the owner of a fantastically powerful time-and-space vehicle would prefer to spend most of his time in and around London docklands in 2008.
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>>Doctor Who and Torchwood are on par with Buffy, Angel, Battlestar, The X-Files
Awww come on!!! Now you're just being ludicrous!!
As a kiddies pantomime show, Doctor Who is okay (my 10 year old nephew loves it). When someone like Moffat get his hands on it, it can be SUPERB.
Torchwood is just totally fake, and obvious manipulation. None of their relationships create any feeling of emotion because there's no build up, no believability. And I'm no homophobe, but even I'm getting SICK and TIRED of RTD's agenda, where most male characters have to be bisexual. Ianto was was of the last remaining interesting characters .. but that sub-plot with Jack is just total pathetic bull-shit and made me want to throw a brick throught the TV screen.
And BTW .. Battlestar Galactica is about the best thing on TV, period!! I never thought anything would beat Babylon 5 for space opera, but this has.
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what a crock of shit!
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RTD stories have always been family centric, his doctor does touch base with his companions home life a lot, and I like seeing it, its been a staple of the shows relaunch so I cant imagine how tough watching it must be for you, I love it myself. I guess my unreal like for science fiction, does that make it an illusion or a schizo moment?, lets me know their are many ways of telling stories and some people enjoy them more than others. As for goofy things, Who is the master of goofy aliens, I love em.
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There is no gay agenda, there is only a gay writer writing what he knows which is apparently camp and frothy, I understand you not caring for that but each to there own. I disagree that Who cannot stand along side BSG or Buffy, its as quirky and takes itself very lightly, a refreshing change to BSG's panic attack inducing moments.
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The best thing that happened to the show was when she left. More Martha Jones! Less boring Rose!
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also a damn fine actress and fit the tone of season three particularly well. Which I thought as the best season yet, Eccelston's included. And BTW I love the Catherine Tate show always have, before she had anything to do with Dctor Who(least as far as I know or knew) and I'll love it if she proves as deft at drama as she did at comedy. I think some of us have been afraid tha having a famous comedian replacinfg Martha meant that the show would drift away from the darker cooler turn it took last season and fall into antics, but the things I've been hearing lately give me more hope. Plus, any Doctor Who s better than most else out there.
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I command it!
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Rumour is that Davros is being updated to be more in line with the new lighter, more comic Dr Who. He's going to be renamed "Stavros" and is going to be played by british comic/actor Harry Enfield.
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he had it perfct from Genesis of Dalek's on. He'll the Davros look was the prototype for Scorpius. Hey, is Wayne Pygram available?
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Nyder was cool. Wish they'd bring him back.
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Apr 06, 2008 3:33:46 PM CDT
And Sean Pertwee as the new Brigadier in charge of Unit
by crichtonastronut
He'd be perfect for that. Anyone seenhim in Cadfael as Hugh Berengier
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First things first, I'm glad that they kept the remixed opening theme that they kept from Voyage of the Damned. Tate was fine, she's capable of doing more than "Am I bovvered." Her pantomime with the Doctor was hysterical. Ms. Foster was great, and we had the most adorable aliens this week (wave). The only thing that bothered me was when Tate got huffy at the end of the episode; brief flashback to Runaway Bride with that.
Overall it was quite good. On par with Smith and Jones. -
We're all familiar with people talking about how they used to ¨hide behind the couch when Dr Who was on¨ when they were kids. People LOVE having those memories of being terrified by Doctor Who when they were kids.
30 years from now, it's very unlikely that anyone will fondly reminisce about being scared shitless by the stories in the current series. It's so completely tame now, it's gradually had the politically-incorrect stuffing knocked out of it by the BBC.
Ever since some bright spark at the BBC thought it was a good idea to re-vamp Doctor Who by introducing the miserable Sylvester McCoy and Bonnie ¨fucking annoying please stab me¨ Langford some years ago, Doctor Who has moved further and further away from the clever dark 'Quatermass' territory, and more towards the lightweight fluffy pantomime nonsense.
For example, the rubbishy CGI cute little ¨Adipose¨ stay-puft marshmallow creatures that appeared in this week's episode (you Americans can look forward to that cringey element when it airs over there next week) just made me want to leave the room and go and check my email or take a dump or something. -
Hey, that's my agenda and I'm straight. We can all get along.
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I should also add that my 5 year old daughter watched it too and looked thoroughly bored for the duration of the episode.
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writes.
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Russell, if you're reading this... I know you seem like a really nice likeable bloke and all, and I don't want you to feel miserable about the negative reaction to your work, but, come on man, you're doing this work in the first place because you are a fan of Doctor Who yourself. Yeah? Try to shake it up please and scare the living wits out of the audience like the old days. For the love of God, man!
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http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0187754/
as Tom Campbell
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060278/
in Daleks' Invasion Earth: 2150 A.D. -
to write episodes of Dr Who that are truly "hide behind the couch" scary. That's why he should take over. The other reason he's better than Davies is that unlike Davies, Moffat doesn't rely on a Deus Ex Machina EVERY SINGLE TIME to get the doctor out of a jam. He lets the Doctor rely on his intelligence, something Davies knows nothing about. But the ratings on this and Torchwood are through the roof in the UK (the same country that gave us the brilliant ideas for such thought provoking fare as American Idol, Big Brother and The Weakest Link. thanks, guys.), so the BBC will never let Davies go.
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Watch what they had Pertwee do. He drove a hovercar, he cruised in a boat, and he used Venusian martial arts.
Pertwee just plain had more fun doing the doctor than any of the others. -
Or an Alternate Universe female Doctor.
Fuck, just make her a female doctor! -
I guess the Rose and Martha ( and Sarah Jane suggestion) romances are a thing of the past.
Which they should be.
The Doctor has traveled with very many HOT women. To think he was banging all of them, kind of demeans his character.
Or maybe he was touring the Hershey Highway with Jaimie?
Thank god old platonic doctor is back. -
I read some spoilers about this seasons final episode of Torchwood.
They were correct, so I'll throw in what else was said.
Mickey and Martha join the team. Next season will be lighter and have less Jack.
Mickey? Fucking Mickey! What are they thinking?!!!! -
You'd figure this should suck:Start-up RTD episode, complete with Tate and cute little CGI critters as well making a social statement with less subtlty than South Park. Instead it was lots of fun. Can't wait for the rest of the season.
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John Simm would be great as the Doctor, he was great as the Master. As for how that would be possible, he could have passed his DNA to the Doctor while he was holding him as he was dying. We can only hope. Robert Carlyle and David Morrisey are rumored to be in the running to be the next Doctor.
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Rose was a fucking cunt by the time she left the show. In the first series she almost destroyed the world by selfishly going after her father. Then after she promised she learned her lesson, she did it again in the 2nd series. Not to mention she didn't even care that when she left, everyone assumed Mickey murdered her so she ruined his life and her mother's. Then when she finally got back around her family she treated them like shit. I like that Tate started out a bitch and has already shown significant growth. I hope she doesn't go backwards as a character like Rose did.I'm glad Martha will be back. It would be cool if she got promoted to Brigadier and would run into the Doctor at least a couple times a season.
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So all those Axe commercials with the girls running don't count? Or is it that they are commercials?
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The whole family is hooked. I can't wait 'till it hits our shores.
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Just a heads up folks that Season 4 will be airing Friday nights at 8 on sci-fi starting April 11th. So see we're only a week behind the UK. And Martha will return. She'll be in several eps this season. Like the 6th ep "The Doctor's Daughter" (which features a gal named Jenny who claims to be the uh doctor's daughter...and funny enough she's played by the actual daughter of the 4th Doctor *lol* ) and the season finale which will also have Rose, Sarah Jane, and Capt Jack. :D And the Sarah Jane adventures will also premier on Sci-fi on April 11th at 7:30pm (which is an odd time).
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I just finished watching it. It was a really mixed bag.all the missing each other at the beginning was cute but didn't feel like Who. It was something different for Who.However, it meant that the actual story was, what? 20 minutes long? The way they structure these shows simply doesn't allow for enough plot and for the worlds to be well enough developed.I liked the fat babies. I was surrised at the fate of the nanny since it seemed as if they were priming her to return. We don't know what the fat babies look like once they grow up so I would imagine that we will get to see the adults at some pointI was going to complain that the actor playing Tate's grandfather looked too young but I just looked him up and he actually is 80. I hope I look that good when I'm 80.I can't stand Rose and her baby talk voice. If they are going to bring back past companions including Sarah Jane is would be nice to see some of the other humans who got left behind return. All the way back at least as far as Dodo Chaplet with Hartnell there are people hanging around that know who the Doctor is.
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very spritely and fun romp. The Shmoos were very cute. Catherine Tate was fine, very good in fact, and if you Taters could get past your mindless hatred of her because of some other role you'd realize that. And as for the RTD haters, here's my theory: You're all just pissed off the BBC didn't come knock on your parents' basement door and ask YOU to do the reboot so you could turn your fanfic about Doctor Who, the sidekick who's just like you, and the Sexbot5000 into an actual filmed episode. He does rely on the sonic screwdriver too much, but most of your other bitching and moaning just screams of "It's wrong because it's not exactly what i'd do if i were put in charge". And the granddad in this episode was terrific.
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It's not ludicrous that I feel MY favorite shows are on par with each other. I will say that they all definitely have different things going for them, but the quality is excellent throughout. Moving on, I DO NOT want a female Doctor. A female time lord, sure, but for the Doctor to be a woman on HIS next regeneration makes NO sense whatsoever. Next, Martha Jones was an EXCELLENT character with a huge flaw: having a crush on The Doctor. On Torchwood, she was Martha Jones that was meant to be. And finally, yes, Rose is back in some manner, we don't know why or how, but she's around. I say enjoy it. I love Rose. I miss Rose. And, I am happy to have Rose back, in any compacity. I don't get Rose-haters. The person who made The Doctor a little human and who became, for all intents and purposes, a bit of a Time Lord herself. When he met her, I always had the impression that he had been alone for a LONG time. He was angry and edgy, and then he met Rose, who just wanted to see the beauty of the universe. If not for Rose, we would be watching a VERY different show with (in my point of view) a progressively sinister Doctor.
One more thing, I don't think Doctor Who is ever going to be as dark in tone as the "year that never was." So, if you keep watching, expect cutesy things to pop up here and there, because kids watch this show, too, guys. Yes, it can be very scary, but it doesn't need to be scary all the time. Note The X-Files, a show that pulled that balance off all the time. -
I suppose it's possible, just doesn't seem very likely. Out of the other two names I'd pick Carlyle, but he still gets film roles fairly often, doesn't he? They need to find a television actor who'd want to be in it for the long haul and not want to run off to the West End, which is something I could see happening to Captain Jack's character as well. Maybe Captain John can fill in a bit if that happens.
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While I would more than welcome Martha Jones replacing Owen (nothing against his character but you know, it's Martha), they aren't really serious about bringing Mickey to Torchwood are they? He was more a comic foil than anything else and besides, I thought he had already hooked up with the Torchwood in the alternate universe. Oh, and since Rose is coming back do you suppose Jackie might turn up as well? God help me, I would go for the mother/daughter tag team action.
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Seriously, four years ago Doctor Who came back with maneating burping dustbins, farting alien bodysnatchers and the Doctor on Big Brother. And people were hating on it here. But it's come a long way since then. Though nothing has changed: people (the same people) are STILL hating on it! It wouldn't be an AICN Doctor Who talkback if 90% of people didn't say "OMG, this was the worst episode ever, RTD is too gay, he's ruining Doctor Who, this is the last episode I'll ever watch, it really can't get any worse than this." Yeah, go watch Ghost Light or The Nightmare of Eden (from what one poster called the show's heydey!). Somehow I don't think the other 8.4 million of us will be joining you.
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One of the worst ever Whos. Plot is ridiculous, satire heavy-handed, Catherine Tate is AWFUL (not funny and not attractive), aliens are silly pokemon-copies... Dr. Who should be sci-fi adventure with a dash of surrealist humor, not a wacky comedy with scifi elements tacked on. When will RTD get that through his head? Hopefully Moffat ups the quality once he takes the reins.
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Is the Doctor Who animated episode "infinite quest" going to be broadcast in the United States? so far the region 1 DVD doesn't even exist yet, and I haven't been able to find it available for streaming, and/or torrents :(
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wasn't our fault, it was the Dutch that unleashed that pile of crap on the world.
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Didn't you see 'Blink' last season? Hell, I was behind the sofa and I'm pushing forty!
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"Blink" and "Love & Monsters"
classic doctor who question, what was the name of the episode where the doctor goes to a mine (i think) and there are evil green glowing worm creatures? -
That was 'The Green Death', with Pertwee. I remember being terrified of that story as a young kid.
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sorry guys but it's true. I wish it wasn't. I enjoy Who, but no way in hell I'm delusional enough to think RTD's writing is anything but clumsy 80% of the time. And yes, he does have a 'gay agenda'. He usually shoehorns in something homosexual somewhere. It's not enough to have alien women, they have to be lesbian as well when RTD is at the helm.
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Yeah, me too, I used to watch Doctor Who every weekend with my Dad when I was hella young, I remember watching that episode when I was 8 years old and hiding behind the couch, and then I had nightmares that green glowing worms were chasing me...
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8 years old? You must be around my age then - 43. That's the trouble with our generation. We can remember when Dr Who was more of an adult show, and not a kiddies pantomime. And who of our age doesn't remember being terrirfied of shop window dummies! :)
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I'm not quite that old... actually I just turned 30.... but yes, I do remember when Doctor Who was more of an adult themed show. I wish the newer seasons would be scary, don't get me wrong, I like the new who episodes for the most part..... I wish that he wouldn't visit Earth so often, and where the heck is the brigadier, i keep hoping that he will make an appearance. I seem to remember a lot more people dying back in the old seasons, and a lot more episodes with cliff hanger endings...
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I never had a problem with Rose, and I thought that final scene between Rose and The Doctor was absolutely perfect (spoiled, of course, by a needless Catherine Tate in wedding gown.) I actually liked the sexual chemistry between Rose and The Doctor (A guy who lives forever who travels alone in space with hot women and we are supposed to believe he DOESN'T make a move. Even Time Lords get the urge!!) But, I HOPE TO GOD this season isn't just an excuse to bring back Rose just to ruin what was set up with their tragic ending. PLEASE GOD, DO NOT RUIN ONE OF THE BEST GOODBYE'S EVER!! Alas, why do I get the feeling I am asking the impossible?
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would make an awsome Doctor. He can do scared, angry, concerned. and he doesn't spend all his time trying to be cool, which is exactly why he is the coolest guy on Lost and would make cool as hell Doctor.
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Apr 07, 2008 8:27:08 AM CDT
CrichtonAstronut speaks the truth! Cusick for the 11th Doctor!
by spyguy
Cusick's Desmond is incredibly Doctorish, especially now with the added time-travel element to his character. Surely Cusick can work in 13-episode seasons of DOCTOR WHO in between his LOST schedule?
Oh, and a quick note to Lemming...Steven Moffat's writing TWO episodes this season: A two-parter titled "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead." Here's hoping Moffat becomes the new showrunner for DOCTOR WHO after Davies leaves.
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Apr 07, 2008 8:36:35 AM CDT
I think all writers have their idiosincracies and habits
by crichtonastronut
You really look hard at the body of Moffats work, from Coupling through the Whos and Jekyll, you can see some similsrities in how h portrays characters, uses humor, and writes dialogue, ad obviously Davies brings his own to a work. I kind of admire that he sticks to his guns and makes his work his own. If you play it safe and try to take out everything that's yours in favor of some prescribed formula whether from the internet or from some focus group or CEOs cousin, it becomes bland and artificial. Say what you will about Whedon or Russel T. Davies, as many people as love or hate them, no one seems indifferent. And that in itself is worth something.
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Tate was as shockingly bad as was feared, you could see her butting right up against her range as an actress, and working so hard to restrain her natural obnoxious "character". I had barf in my mouth the whole time.
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The Rose cameo at the end made me feel like I hadn't wasted 40 minutes watching the rest of the show.
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is the worst, most shitty addition to the series that RTD has made. She was just awful- but dramatically less annoying than in the Xmas special. I'm hoping that she can improve over the course of the series.
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He was the best thing about, what I felt, was a rather flat and spiritless episode overall. I'd actually like to see him be a companion for a couple of episodes, plus it'd be a new dynamic for this latest incarnation of Who. Honestly I'm getting a bit sick of only having female companions. I think that's why Jack's reappearance worked so well on Who last season, it brought a different dynamic to the crew. But no, instead it looks like we're up for Battle Of The Female Companions...
And personally I didn't hate Tate, though I wasn't overly impressed by her in this ep either, and her range does seem very limited in certain regards. Still, I don't object to her presence.I mean if I can put up with Turlough and Mel, then I think I can put up with Donna for a while. Oh, and is it just me, or did anyone else think that the Adipose looked like Clum Babies? Makes me wonder if the parents aren't named Sockbat. Oh, and my early prediction for this season of Who, Rose is evil. At least for a bit... -
Apr 07, 2008 10:52:35 AM CDT
Children nowadays grow up in a world in which they can be murder
by smashing
I don't think people dressed as monsters can scare them anymore. Some episodes of New Who are still scaryish though, I thought the 2 parter with the "devil" was chilling and last years Blink was very creepy, it's all relative.
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I love Catherine Tate. The first time I watched Dr. Who was "The Runaway Bride," and I thought she was wonderful. She's the whole reason I'm watching the show now, and I liked the first episode a lot. I think she's an interesting presence. I liked that Martha chick on Torchwood and she will be a great addition to that show next season, but I can't wait to see more of Donna and the Doctor. They have great chemistry together. I can't understand why everyone despises her so much.
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That was my full title.
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Rose will be the real Rose and good but will not be able to stay in this dimension. The goodbye scene as too perfect to undo completely. my only issue about the cast change is that one season and no Christmas special is way too briefe for a chracter as brilliant as Martha was. To me she was closer to being the next Sarah Janbe Smith than even Rose.
And she was at least as good as Rose,so only giving her one full season seemed like a slap in the face, and would have no matter who replaced her with. Glad to see her guesting here and on Torchwood, but I'd really like to see her get a regular gig again on one series or the other.
I am gld to here Tate's notb doing the Runaway Bride persona. I think she showed more of her characters potential at the end in the tag scene where she told the Doctor why she would not be joining him. -
if you want creepy.
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She was so forced upon us, and ultimately I just don't think Freema was up to the task of following Billie. I'm glad they saw sense and dumped her because from how RTD went on about her at the start of last season you'd think he was gay for her.
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Jekyll had some moments too. Though not not doc who related.
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I watched the episode, and I thought it was one of the better RTD episodes. Especially when compared to his last episode, which was a train wreck even though Kylie Minogue actually was great in it. But I too have problems with the episode. Like a non-Time Lord baddie having a Sonic device. RTD falls flat with that, just like he did by giving The Master a "Laser Screwdriver" instead of just giving him a redesigned Tissue Compression Eliminator (TCE) that didn't look like a giant dildo. Anthony Ainley tended to be panto in the role in the old days, but he sure was creepy firing off the TCE and giving his victims a painful death (complete with the agonizing screams) that reduced them to the size of dolls. That used to scare me as a kid. And I still want K-9 back. For phuk's sake, just buy the rights to the character once and for all. And yes, I want Moffat to take over, although I'd also love to see RDM or JMS write an episode or two, or more. Same goes for Peter David who is a giant Who fan. But I know...people will scream "Americanisation" if that were to happen.
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unless you mean happy. and hopw was she "forced" on us. Billie left, they had to put somebody in there. Is there anyone else that wouldn't have felt "forced" on you?
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and bring back larva-guns while you're at it.
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She's dead, you idiot.
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Apr 07, 2008 2:07:27 PM CDT
To all CATH HATERS( most of )you are just a bunch of stupid apes
by earlfist
Donna is written as an annoying character. That is the intention. Some people are like that. Most do not realise. A lot seem to be talkbackers on this site. Doctor Who is a family show. When it is funny and clever it is excellent. There were many good things about this last episode. Martha, Rose and even Sarah Jane are back later in the year so be patient you mad sad lot. .Anyone who didn't love Donna miming thru the Glass is a moron. I have a better name for you. CATH HATERS. say it quick. like nurse ratchett.
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One *story*, yes -- but it's a two-part episode. His Empty Child two-parter back in s1 was a highlight of that year, but he's surpassed those work in s2 and s3 with his gripping standalone spook-fests. I'm hoping we get double the genius in s4. How big is his head these days, thanks to all the fan reaction??
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there are some easily-pleased idiots posting in this thread.
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According to another website coughtdarkhorizonscough Martha becomes a regular on Torchwood next season. She will be great on that show, I think.
I'm sure that the writers on Dr. Who are thrilled they have an actress who can do comedy in Catherine Tate. And it's so nice to see an actress who can do anger and unpleasant emotions, whose face isn't frozen by Botox. You never see them in American movies anymore. -
Wasn't a very good episode at all, but then I'm not a fan of the majority of RTD's stories. It was there to set the characters up again though, so I'll let it off as an opener.
By the way, the Rose appearance definitely wasn't 'tacked on' at the last minute – I knew how she was going to be introduced in this episode well over 6 months ago. -
why this site continues to give the time of day to this steaming turd of a show still bewilders me when there are much better shows to have a talkback about ......thats why i call this show "DR Who Cares"
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I can't work up the hatred for this show, it was meh at best and mildly irritating at worst. At least there was no clumsy shoehorning in of RTD's usual "gay agenda" bullshit (that I remember, anyway) and Tate was way more restrained than I thought she'd be. I just REALLY don't see this great acrtees that RTD keeps referring to her as being in the series - in her own show she ran the gamut of emotions from A to B. From "shouting teen" to "shouting Grandma" to her most refined role, "not shouting bald fella who says 'How very dare you!'", there's not exactly range there, is there?
RTD-hating Tater haters: Hate on. That's EXACTLY what these TBers are for, don't let anyone tell you different - unload your bile here, and ignore those fuckjugglers that pop up and say 'only nerds and geeks go on TBs and post hate about new Who' while simultaneously completely failing to see the inherent irony and hypocrisy of them going on a TB to post hate about those who go on a TB and post hate. Twats.
But about CRIME: No jeopardy - a million fat people die on Who? We knew it wouldn't happen, therefore NOT SCARY. Sarah Lancashire? Meh. Scooby Doo villain. Adipose? Cute as hell. Like the fact we all thought they'd Gremlin out on us, turning evil - then they didn't! Rose moment - yes, a true "Holy shit!" moment, but ruins the impact of DOOMSDAY. Way to shoot yourself in the foot there, RTD.
As for TORCHWOOD... with the exception of the one about people going missing and falling through the Rift, absolute fucking bollocks. Especially the ones with Captain Spike. When the best thing you can say about a show at the end of its SECOND FUCKING SEASON is "It's not as shit as the first", well, as a major lover of FIREFLY, I just lament the fact that of all the eps in FIREFLY, maybe two were less than awesome. Which means FIREFLY got tbe balance of a fucking fantastic sci-fi show right IN ITS FIRST SEASON!!! WHY do we keep having the mediocre, painfully badly written shitfest that is TORCHWOOD handed to us on a shit-smelling plate with the caveat of "here it is, at least it's not as bad as last year's"? REMEMBER WHEN SHOWS GOT IT FUCKING RIGHT IN THE FIRST SEASON???
Fuck, GLOBAL FREQUENCY got it right in ONE FUCKING EPISODE! That pilot alone pisses on everything TORCHWOOD has EVER achieved. Combined. -
Is so far up RTD's arse that they can taste his Marlboro Lights, which they refer to EVERY TIME THEY INTERVIEW him. It's like that shitfest rag is written by 14 year olds who think RTD is "edgy" and "cool" because of his gay agenda bullshit, and are so blinded by love for EVERYTHING he does because of the endless amounts of set access RTD gives them on Who and TW (way to shill there, SFX, you fucking prostitutes) that they can't see a steaming turd even when it's dropped on them. Witness the VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED review they did - must try harder. For fuck's sake, credible independant unbiased reviewing on there died back in the first few issues.
Fuck SFX magazine. Just call it the RTD magazine, which it fucking is these days. -
When they did the flashback episode showing how each character joined Torchwood I was expecting to see something in Toshiko's segment showing where she (unknowingly) met the Doctor years ago. Naoko Mori was in the 'Aliens Of London' ep of Doc Who, playing Dr Sato. But they've never made any mention of this in Torchwood. Is she supposed to be the same character or not?
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and still is better than Batman Begins. THe sets, the dialogue, the quality of the costumes, the cinematography, everything in Dr. Who was better.
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Yes, Tosh is the same character. No, you're not imagining things. Yes, the writing on TORCHWOOD are THAT BAD at remembering their own mythology. Which is how Tosh can be in ALIENS OF LONDON, yet NEVER have mentioned that she has previously met the Doctor. Because the TW writers are absolutely shit. As is the show.
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1st, to Tigravaya, let me say this: Yeah. Because every plotline in "Buffy" was original and wasn't at all lifted from something else released or written previously, right? NO!!! Dammit, this is why I hate Buffy and Buffy fans-- They're so fucking clueless about the fact that Whedon ripped off EVERY ASPECT OF THAT FUCKING WASTE OF A SHOW. Whedon can't write ANYTHING original. Even his run on X-Men is just a shameless rehash of everything written by Chris Claremont. Please, stop watching Doctor Who and Torchwood and stick to your Buffy DVDs if you can't accept that those plot elements you described were NOT original when Buffy did them.
And to AICN/Herc--- Look at all the Torchwood talkback going in here! Will you PLEASE cover the next season? Skipping it this year was a bit of an insult when you're still covering a show that was cancelled years ago. People really liked this past season of Torchwood-- It even surpassed Doctor on a few occasions! Yes, I realize Torchwood talkbacks can lead to a heapin' helpin' of homophobia, but I'm willing to take that risk to see it covered here again. We can shout down the assholes. You get hits. We're all happy.
And to spud mcspud, the "continutuity" you complain about with Tosh is not "forgotten" but it's "inconsequential" -- She didn't know who the Doctor was, and the Doctor took no particular notice of Tosh. It was just a case of an actor coming back for the new show because she did well-- It was hardly an "event" of any kind. The Doctor hasn't been on Torchwood, and Jack has NEVER told them who he was chasing all that time. There's absolutely no reason for Tosh's flashback to have anything to do with the Doctor.
That episode was brilliant. Torchwood rocked. Kindly turn in your Whoniverse pass and join Tigravaya in watching his lame-ass Buffy DVDs. Tosh never had any reason to mention the Doctor. They made sure of that, and did a pretty good job of keeping Jack's crush somewhat secret from the Torchwood team. -
I see. You're just a troll. You don't like the show, and you're apparently frightened of RTD because he's gay. Why else would you constantly mention his "gay agenda" when it's not the topic of conversation? YOU brought it up dude.
I think you hate Who and TW because you see Jack kissing Ianto and get a funny feeling. Keep burning that hate, boy. Someday your man-crush will win out, though. -
I think you should stop watching, because there is only going to be more of the same, and if you don't like it, don't watch. It's that simple.
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Fuck The Napkin: How COULD you know that??? Up until a week ago, we only knew that Rose was going to be back towards the end of the season. I'm on DW spoiler sites all the time and I never heard about the Rose scene. Really...
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I'm not a twat for putting my opinion out there, either, and yes, I get the irony, but I don't go into talkbacks for shows that I hate and post about how much they suck, maybe I should, because I could throw some bile around on Desperate Housewives, Ugly Betty, etc...but I come here to read the talkbacks and be entertained by the repartee. Too bad, so sad.
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Yes, that was Tosh in Aliens of London. One in the same.
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I will second you on everything, Torchwood talkbacks, shoutin' down the homophobic 15 year olds, all of it. (But I love my Buffy DVD's, too:( Can't I like Torchwood, Doctor Who, & Buffy?) I was surprised the other day when the talkback first started and a LOT of posts were about Torchwood. I love it, right now. It's a great time to be a fangirl:)
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I actually like the gay agenda on Torchwood. It's interesting to me how the sexuality of the characters is so murky. I loved Tosh, how she was nerdy, yet really hot. Is it the greatest show in the world, no, but it's interesting. But if you hate it, whatever.
I LOVE Buffy, yet I also love what ZeroCorpse had to say. Whedon can be really hacky in his writing. He basically has a fresh take on familiar storylines, and he REPEATS himself constantly. Look at the characters of Angel, he had to bring in a Willow character with Fred and a Giles character with Whesley a Cordelia with ... Cordelia. And then he brought in Anya on Buffy to be Cordelia.
Get of the Buffy tit and but up a weekly talkback for Who. And Catherine Tate rocks. -
Let me just remind the Buffy Uberfans that Joss Whedon ripped off a good deal from Classic Doctor Who. Let's see... 1.) a villain named "The Master". 2.) a military organization that studies and steals alien/paranormal material and protects the planet...on Buffy it was "The Initiative", on Who, it was "UNIT" and it started back in the 1960s. 3.) On ANGEL, there was a character that liked to be called Fred, just as on Who, Romana liked to be called Fred too. 4.) Buffy as a kick-ass no-nonsense character was predated by Leela the Savage on Classic Who. 5.) the Watchers... one could say it was ripped off from the Highlander TV Series, but there are parallels between it and the CIA/Time Lords. Shall I go on further? But yeah, with that having been said, RTD does rip off Whedon who beforehand ripped off ClassicWho. Before I quit this post, I'll also remind the TalkBack readers that SMALLVILLE has also ripped off the Whoniverse. There was that episode which started out with an assassin peering at Jonathan Kent making a political speech. It is almost a shot-for-shot remake of the beginning of the Doctor Who episode "The Deadly Assassin" with Lois Lane standing in for The Doctor. Some will say that both are ripped from the original *The Manchurian Candidate* but the Smallville version is a direct rip from the Who episode. Then in the episode this season that Clark goes into Lex's mind (a la "The Cell" craptastic film), they use the same musical cues that are used on TORCHWOOD.
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I like Tennant a lot, of course, I am ignorant to any other version of doctor who. I'm going to have to rent the earlier episodes off netflix. It seems like he's going to leave after this season.
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I despise Torchwood. I think it is pathetic that the BBC's idea of "adult" sci-fi is to have every character (man/ woman/ alien) by solely interested in shagging every other character. However, I do like Who, and that is why I feel a need to complain about the current state of it. Although, to be fair, this episode was light-years better than the car crash I was expecting. It's nothing to do with hating the "gay" agenda (that I don't even think is that strong anyway), I just think that the over-reliance on reset buttons, the sonic screwdriver, and some of the moronic choices they make undermines the show- especially when you get genuinly excellent episodes (family of blood, blink etc). Regarding Tate: I can not believe that she is being excused because the character is meant to be irritating. As may be, but it is still a hugely annoying presence clogging up the screen. And the blame lies with RTD.
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I admit that Whedon's stych is to spin familiar story lines, and apply them to everyday themes, but C'mon. Those similiarities are funny as hell. I'm sure things like a "Villain named Master" and a character named "Fred" greatly contributed to the Buffyverse success. The bastard took credit for these brilliant ideas for years!
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Some of it is valid, but on the whole I love the reboot and am thrilled it is back. Jury's out on Tate, but I agree that she wasn't as irritating as I thought she would be. People forget that Who is pitched at the family demographic so occasionally it will have the light comedy and cutesiness that was in this week's episode. I really started to get into Torchwood this season and think it's a great, more adult counterpoint to Who. Plus it winds up the homophobes I work with, so that's a bonus.
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I heard rumours a while back that one episode this series will have Rose, Martha, Sarah-Jane and Donna stuck on the Tardis whilst the Doctor is indisposed. Here's hoping we get some girl-on-girl action with Rose and Martha. Donna and SJ can also get it on, but off-camera.
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I hardly think mentioning a lack of "gay agenda" in PARTNERS IN CRIME constitues "constantly mentioning" it. But it is a nice change to watch an episode of new Who that DOESN'T feel the need to reiterate RTD's sexual preferences all the time by making a pointless and inconsequential (see? learning!) reference to a character's gay/bi orientation that has nothing whatsoever to do with the episode - this being the way RTD shoehorns it in. PARTNERS was great because, finally, it looks like he doesn't feel the need to psh it on us all the damn time. Good for him - finally!
Zero, during the course of TW we've had references in new Who of Jack telling the doctor, "I rebuilt Torchwood as a force for good - in YOUR honour!". We've had Jack emoting (badly) over a hand in a jar, then he leaves the entire team when the noise of the TARDIS is heard in the Hub - a great continuity error, since Jack then has to run across what seems like half of Cardiff to jump on the TARDIS which, in TW, sounded like it materialised IN the Hub. Oh wait. No-one in the Beeb cares about continuity in TW or DW. Okey dokey.
So you don't think that, between episodes, Jack would've even MENTIONED the Doctor to the TW team? They wouldn't have found references to him in the TW archives, learned what a Code 9 was (worked in the Christmas Invasion), or even discovered, in the two years since TW started, WHY TW was created? No references to the Doctor AT ALL? Because that would've been the bit where Tosh says something like, "The Doctor? Wasn't he at Whitehall when the ship hit Big Ben? I met him when working on that pig alien pilot and..."
It's been overlooked, ZeroCorpse, NOT because it's inconsequential, but because the showrunners of TORCHWOOD are incompetent and can't even remember their own continuity.
As for the Buffy thing... it's hard NOT to compare TW to Buffy when you have James Marsters essentially playing Spike again but in Adam Ant's clothing. He's bad, then he's good. He's sarky, he's sexy. Not exactly a radical change, is it? And I'm no rabid Buffy fan - I preferred Angel to Buffy, and to be honest I think FIREFLY pissed on them both, it was so much better. But let's face it - your idols at RTD land fucked up their own backstory with DW and TW, and you don't like it. Boo hoo.
Oh, and the funny feeling I get when I see Jack and Ianto kissing? Hours of self-analysis in the psychosexual way have produced the following conclusions: (1) I fear for Jack's pecker, as shagging Ianto carries all kinds of dangers. Splinters, mostly. Didn't they stop making sex dolls out of wood centuries ago? (2) The fact that Ianto - an actor so wooden even the Thunderbirds would be embarrassed for him - seems to have a fanbase, despite having only one facial expression. Exactly WHY is he there again? (3) That stupid-as-fuck backstory again - that Ianto, who has no clue who or what TW are, can find the back door to their secret base in order to go all moon-eyed over their fearless leader. Some secret team. Fucking ridiculous.
That funny feeling is hopelessness. That people like YOU, ZeroCorpse, would watch that sub-church-hall amateur histrionics and actually be proud to call yourself a fan. That something so shoddy and pathetic can stand as one of the BETTER sci-fi shows we produce in the country. What a fucking debacle.
And - saddest of all - that homosexuals everywhere have truly suffered for the right to live their lives as equal to heteros, only for people like YOU to hide behind the "Homophobe! Bigot!" defence that you use to deflect criticism of RTD's transparent lack of writing skill. You're pissing of decades of other peoples' torment and eventual triumph, so YOU can hold off intelligently discussing one man's lack of skill at writing, by pointing out that anyone who thinks he's a shit writer must be a homophobe. Wow. Way to go, Zero. By your rationale, I must be a vegetarian because I like FIREFLY. Or something equally as fucking unrelated, you fool. -
The last episode of Torchwood mentions the Who episode when Tosh met the PIG(S)IN SPACE(SUIT)!!!!
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"I think you should stop watching, because there is only going to be more of the same, and if you don't like it, don't watch. It's that simple."
There you go ,with that irony again. Telling people that, if they don't like something, don't watch it again. Then moaning about people expressing a negative opnion. Facile as it sounds - if you don't like reading negative opinions, DON'T go on the TBs again.
Sound silly? That's because it is. If people such as Three Oranges and I wind you up so much - you don't have to come on these TBs, but if you do, how do you know which posts are going to annoy you until you read them? Or, to put this another way - as a major Who fan since the glory days of Tom Baker, I don't know if a Who episode is fantastic or shite until I watch it. How, therefore, can I know which I'll enjoy and which I won't? I'll just have to watch, and if I have a negatvie opinion, go online and share is - just I would if I have a positive opinion. PARTNERS wasn't the train-wreck a lot of us thought it could be. Compared to the likes of HUMAN NATURE and BLINK, this is chopped liver. RTD, when you think about it, is the perfect writer for today's undemanding audiences - he writes references to pointless, stupid pop cultural things (Heat, Brangelina, Big Brother, all that shit that's there to stop you being creative in any way and which absolutely rewards passivity and a lack of critical faculty), he has no clue about continuity, he loves to alienate the long-term fans, to ingratiate himself with the mainstream audience he so obviously worships, and has no regard for the rich history of the show he claims to love, but so obviously disdains. Years ago, Who wasn't afraid to challenge its audience: to scare them, provoke their thinking, make them work things out for themselves. The average mainstream UK viewer nowadays is in such a fucking stupor they can't work out why they watch all the shit they do, let alone fit into their heads stimulating and intricate plotting with hard SF ideas in it that would require them to maybe shift their arses and read some NEW SCIENTIST or something to understand the show.
New Who is perfect for the bovine of thought: it's a cheeseburger for the mind. Which is fine every now and then, but we long-time fans remember when the show WAS stimulating, didn't treat you like an idiot, and rewarded creative thinking and intelligence with plots you actually had to work at to understand, instead of these baby-food episodes.
At this rate, we'll all end up like those poor dumb bastards in IDIOCRACY. Which RTD would absolutely love, since that's the level he writes for. -
I remember thinking Queer as Folk was absolutely brilliant. He just doesn't seem to understand sci-fi. Just thought I'd clear up this myth.
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and he hasn't referenced Aintitcool yet? How unfair.
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Good point well made! We demand AICN references!!!
Agreeing with you on QUEER AS FOLK - it was brilliantly written, and funnier than I expected. Have to slightly disagree on the SF thing though - he did some brilliant children's SF back in the late 1980s with CENTURY FALLS, which was extremely 70s-style creepy, and of course THE SECOND COMING, with that gut-wrenching ending. Theologically complete bollocks, but dramatically a hell of a gut-punch. Brave and brilliant stuff. So why is he misfiring so often with WHO? I actually did enjoy a lot of his early eps; ROSE was a great show opener, as was SMITH AND JONES. LOVE & MONSTERS was a joy from start to finish (I know I'm in the minority there - it's the WHO equivalent of JOSE CHUNG from the X-Files!). But why his writing is getting clunkier, less well plotted, filled with bad dialogue and generally written as if he can't remember one season previously, I have no idea. The man is capable of greatness. So where the hell is it?!? -
I fear that RTD is becoming predictable, and that is the worst thing for an artist to be IMHO. I think that he deserves kudos for the strength of his writing, on how he instills humanity into Who. However, 3 full years into this project his strengths cannot hide his lack of Who knowledge or understanding of sci-fi in general. It get the feeling that RTD tells human stories first merely in a fantastical world. This manifests itself in Torchwood, Sarah Jane, and Who. Don't get me wrong, RTD injected new life into a tiring formula. However, the balance needs to be found between the Sci-Fi and human drama.
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Oh, yes he has. See you all next week. Hope Bodet comes up with a really good joke about how Daleks can't walk up stairs.
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Tried, but failed. RTD didn't put any gay references into PARTNERS IN CRIME, hence no gay agenda drama. Try next week - there's lots of buggery going on in ancient Krakatoa :D
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Really, really fucking hated it. The obsession with the companion's family has been too much, but really that is not the biggest flaw in his writing. Maybe he is spread too thin and should just stick to Torchwood.
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That first review is insanely long. As for DW, that esp was really quite good until the Spolier reveal. Desparate no?
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I can't remember who was talking about it for so long as if it was the U.S Constitution but I tried Piratebay and could not find it...
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Apr 08, 2008 10:34:13 AM CDT
Spud does that mean 12 more weeks of your weak anti gay drivel?
by smashing
If so let me know and I wont bother talk-backing, you spoil it for me. For 4 years you have repeatedly made the same constant homophobic remarks and you still don't think there is anything wrong with your po' white trash opinions.
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I mean, was its destruction really necessary for the Doctor to be all brooding and stuff?
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Let's have a story where his first time travel journey was to witness the end of the Time Lord society, and let's have him formulate a plan to bring them back... with the Doctor's help.... I am such a geek I know.
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Apr 08, 2008 10:41:39 AM CDT
I am tired of the not-so-subtle gay references in Who
by darfurontherocks
There is a difference between being subversive and then being downright silly. All the gay references that RTD makes has ceased to advance Who long time ago. It serves no purpose in the overall narrative of the series. And I think that this is what many fans are critical about RTD: He is writing human drama primarily encased in Sci-fi.
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After 25 seasons of lame techno-babble episodes of Trek I am loving new Who for the exact reason that it places dramatic story telling over pseudo (make believe) science. As a fan base we are never going to satisfy everyone but most people talk about temporal science as if it was something we where all versed in, without realising that they are taking there cues from Back to the Future for their frame of reference, its all made up you know.
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You seem to miss the point here- There is nothing wrong with human drama in Sci-fi but when the balance is so far off it ceases to be Science Fiction and becomes a soap opera with technology. For example, I found last series mostly tiresome because I grew to despise Martha moping around like a lovesick schoolgirl. I also did not need to see her dysfunctional family anywhere near as much as we did. This is the one good thing about Tate- it should be the end of these romantic longings that are frankly out of place.
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I'm not missing any point, I'm saying I think yours is wrong and I disagree with it. Unlike most of the breeders who bemoan RTD I'm actually opening my mind to the possibility that Sci-fi can mean more than BSG's dark and depressing stories and actually have a lot of human heart over cold and frankly ludicrous science.
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This is why I praised RTD for this invaluable contribution... However, the balance needs to be struck between the affairs of the universe and interpersonal affairs. They need to feed off each other in order to strength each context. We need to feel that when the Master is bringing in the Toclafane to Earth that not only is Martha and her family are in peril, but the entire universe also. Conversely, the importance of the universe is reinforced through the strength of human interactions and our empathy for individual characters, who are representatives of all the people and relationships in the universe. So yes, a balance is needed.
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It has been for a long, long time now. The show has had a strong gay following for decades. John Nathan Turner was gay. The actor who played Adric is gay. Episode writers Steven Fry, Mark Gatiss and Tom Macrae are all gay. And that's probably just the tip of the gayberg. DW is totally gay. That said, even if you're straight, there's no need to feel left out.
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Apr 08, 2008 1:42:45 PM CDT
I think they should get rid of all the heterosexual characters
by crichtonastronut
in Lost and BSG. I mean where is it all leading and what's the point. It is it getting the colonial fleet to Earth. It aint gettin the Losties off the island. And doesn't it strain credibility that all the women in BSG are so hot. You'd think a few ugy chicks would've escaped with the fleet. And it's not like all the Cylon guys are Greek adonises. And crash survivors, come on, Kate, Sun, Claire, we're supposed to believe that's radom selection of survivors. I'm just sick of this obvious heterosexual agenda that Ron Moore and JJ Abrams are trying to push on us, just make them all eunics and Nuns and lets get back the story where no one has or thinks about sex. Just like the real world
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Apr 08, 2008 1:47:25 PM CDT
I have liked that aspect of both Doctor Who and Torchwood
by crichtonastronut
The idea that amidst all the epic galaxy spanning events. Individuals still have their lives and families and rerlatioships and that's what makes the big problems worth solving. If RTD has a sigle message or agenda informing his work I think that is it. The gay thing is just part of the world he sees around him and puts on the screen. There are gays in the real world I live in too, so it makes sense to see them on screen.
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I mean, who else would be that interested in who's gay and who's not?
Oh, and Steven (sp) Fry never wrote for DOCTOR WHO. He was originally asked to write an episode, but it didn't work out. Keep up the great work, youhates...
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Apr 08, 2008 1:57:37 PM CDT
BTW I love the term Cath Haters. Say it fast. Brilliant
by crichtonastronut
and I'm really lookng forward to the upcoming season premier, Christmas Special and Premier. Season Three was my favorite all around season, but every episode of Who has been as good or better than about ninety percent of what ive seen in American television over he same period. and once BSG is gone this series and SJA will be the best things by far the SciFi channel has going for it.
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Back to calling the Spud a bigot, and in the context of you using the term "breeders" - a derogatory term used by militant gays to denigrate straight people? Had I referred to you as a "poof" or some other gay-hating term, I'd have expected it, but as you have no class whatsoever, hate on, you fucking hypocrite. Hate is hate, whether you think (as you surely do) that you're justified or not.
I have a problem with RTD pushing an agenda above and beyond advancing the story, which is why such pointless exchanges as the old ladies in GRIDLOCK gets my goat. I don't give a dman that they're lesbians - I give a damn that RTD put a line in that story that had nothing to do with the plot (did it advance that ep in any way?) and everything to do with his view on sexual politics. As every other character seemed to be gay in the last three years of Who, it's pretty obvious RTD wants us all to know he's okay and even encouraging of having gay characters in DW. Woo hoo. Presumably, then, Smashing, you have no problem with other people putting forth their viewpoints because of what they stand for in their lives - oh. Hang on. You only have no problem with this as long as they say what YOU agree with. That's it, isn't it? That if YOU think being gay is okay, and RTD thinks this also, then it's okay - but God forbid anyone who DOESN'T want Dr Who to be QUEER AS ALIEN FOLK to have an opinion! In other words, you are a complete fucking hypocrite, in that you don't believe in true democracy on these TBs - where everyone's viewpoint is equally valid and equally deserving of space.
You're a hypocrite, a fascist and a discredit to the gay community. It's people like you who only fuel the hatred of the REAL homophobes. And you apparently don't have the faintest clue where I'm coming from with all this, so fuck off to your militant gay friends and keep slagging off the heteros, without whom no gay person on this Earth would ever have been born. Twat. -
With you on that - the element to Season 4 that I expected to hate most, ie Tate, turns out to be a strength. I look forward to her being spiky and sarky with the other characters on the show, so long as she can keep a lid on the yawping she did so well in RUNAWAY BRIDE. Time will tell.
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You may have something there with LOST. Isn't the love-trainagle between Sawyer/Kate/Jack the most boring thing about that show? Frankly, I'm only interested in what's going on with the island, and the human relationships angle is usually the part where I go and make a cuppa. One more flashforward with Jack on the verge of tears staring at Kate, and I may well hurl.
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"There is a difference between being subversive and then being downright silly. All the gay references that RTD makes has ceased to advance Who long time ago. It serves no purpose in the overall narrative of the series."
Many thanks for your concise sum-up - Smashing, THIS is exactly what my four years of "weak anti-gay drivel" have been about. If a line doesn't advance the narrative, it should go. Especially if it's only there to bait a certain type of person (homophobes include), which makes the writer seem like an argumentative, immature pre-teen troll in their parent's basement, out to make a name for themselves by goading people into losing it. It's hard to claim an advance in sci-fi when the first gay kiss at primetime on the Beeb happened over two decades ago on EASTENDERS. We get it, being gay is okay, RTD - move on. There's plot to be torpedoed, and the holes don't write themselves. -
Apr 08, 2008 2:52:08 PM CDT
Actually, the lesbian couple in Gridlock, as well as
by crichtonastronut
the Catman and human woman couple, follows up on a mythos that has been in this series since season one's End of the World, building on the idea of 51st century humans having fewer sexual boundries due to interbreeding with various aliens as they spread through the galaxy. Ater cross species sexuality, same sex relationships seemed pretty tame to insignificant. What I've liked is that these relationships have not been treated any differently than heterosexual relationships. it's just a matter of who's attracted to who.
This also seems timely with movies like Brokeback Mountain, and the issue of gay marriage causing such a stir in America. And examining this issue through a future context is very much in keeping with one of the best traditions of science fiction, which is to specualate about human relationships and societies through future and alien settings. Which is not to say that this should add fuel to the agenda fire, just that it's not a departure from science fiction to explore these concepts. No one seems to mind it when BSG topical in the area of government politics. -
Understood, but the difference between GRIDLOCK and BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is that you couldn't watch BROKEBACK without references to being gay - it's the central plot point around which the entire movie revolves. You could quite easily have removed the line in GRIDLOCK, and the narrative to the episode would not have altered one iota. I think most people just looked at the inter-special breeding as being a bit silly - how would a human woman give birth to kittens? And they couldn't have been gene-spliced, unless there was some portable gene-splicing McGuffin in the back of that tiny floating van. So it may have seemed like an interesting avenue to take the plot down, but it came across as a bit trite. To me, anyway.
The short story BROKEBACK is based on, by the way, is one of the greatest short stories I've ever read. If you haven't read it, hunt it down and grab it - it's 100% more heartbreaking than the film was. And as the film was magnificent, you can't imagine how well-written that story is. E. Annie Proulx is a genius. -
While I agree with you that, in this modern era, there is no need to treat gay relationships differently on screen than hetro ones. But the issue remains that the mythos you refer to, is founded on the concept, that large numbers of the population are secretly gay and that if only the primitive societal restrictions where removed then they would awaken to their new sexuality. That's what seems preposterous to me. It's not the gayness it's self, but rather the implied idea that most people would be gay if only they had the courage to buck the system.
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Apr 08, 2008 3:30:39 PM CDT
I understand what your saying. But I think the fact that
by crichtonastronut
it isn't central to the plot and stands as an element of background fits the point of the scene. It's like Star Trek, it doesn't matter plotwise that Chekoff is Russian or Sulu is Asian or Uhura is black. It does stand as a significant speculative element that in the future of the Federation those things didn't matter to Starfleet either.
Your right to point out the comparative difference in Brokeback Mountain. I only brought up the movie myself as a sign that gay and bi sexuality are very much in the popular consciousness without Russel T. Davies. I think the fact that it is so much in popular consciousness now may be leading to a future time in which having any series with no homosexauls or homosexual references will seem as unnatural as a series with no references men and women having romantic and sexual reltionships with each other. I think RTD has stepped up as the first to cross that imaginary line in the same way that Rodenberry did with multiracial equality in the sixties. Also I have read Proulx's short story and I absolutely agree it is brilliant. One of the best stories I've ready long or short. -
The whole idea that there should be gay or bi relationships in every episode of new Who seems to me to be a bit misrepresentative. I personally don't know, work with or often meet anyone who is overtly gay or bi, though I have worked and associated with gay/bi people in the past. My work, social and home location circles of friends are all overwhelmingly heterosexual - not out of choice, and certainly not out of some imagined homophobia that Smashing and his friends on here would have you believe I suffer from, but simply because I don't know anyone who is out as gay or bi. All the people I know, meet or work with are straight. I have no clue as to the ration of straights to non-straights in the UK, but I'll bet it's nowhere near 50/50. And so it is in Who: well over 80% of new Who eps have gay references in them that do not influence the narrative in any way, which indicates that RTD is interested in crossing the line you mentioned, but not integrating it into the plot in any meaningful way. In TORCHWOOD, for example, name one gay/bi character who is not overwhelmingly unlikeable in some way. This seems to indicate, that in RTD's view (or maybe what he would like the world to be like), there are gay relationships going on everywhere, all the time, out and proud (which may be the case in RTD's own life, but not for well over 50% of his viewers) and that most, if not all, of those relationships are negative - shallow, non-communicative, involving cheating, lying and generally being a bastard to whoever you are with. The real confusion comes when you learn that Barrowman has a long-term male partner who he has been with for over a decade, and RTD is also in a relationship - so why this need to portray all non-straight relationships in TW as being negative and/or shallow, while in Dr Who they are almost always there to point out "look, it's okay to be gay! In EVERY EPISODE!". It was actually a nice change, in PARTNERS IN CRIME, to not have a sexual agenda of ANY orientation shoved down our throats - this may be the saving grace of season 4. Who is not a polemic soapbox show, it's sci-fi entertainment. Why can't the preaching be left to the next STAR TREK series/movie? Who never was, and should not now, be the place to preach what should or shouldn't be the norm; it should entertain, pure and simple.
And if no-one'sashamed of the gay agenda in Who and TW, why not go the whole hog and pronounce TW the first gay sci-fi show, specifically aimed at the gay market? It already plainly is, but it demonstrates a remarkable lack of courage not to "out" the show for what it is: gay sci-fi spank fiction for Barrowman and Marsters fans. -
http://tinyurl.com/ 4577fq
See the above link for a revealing link to a James Marsters interview on Digital Spy in which he reveals that the reason he loves the part in TORCHWOOD is as follows:
>Let's start by talking about Torchwood...
>"That show is the best. I love that show! That show's pissing all the right people off, I love it."
>What do you mean by that?
>I'm sure in the UK it is accepted for what it is more, but in Mexico and in the United States, there's a good streak of homophobia. A lot of characters are unabashedly bisexual in Torchwood; in fact my character's way beyond bisexual, my character will do anything that has a hole! I used to do lots of plays that could piss people off for the right reason and Torchwood's found a way to do that."
A right reason? Just to piss people off? Sound like pre-teen childish trolling to me, not making a statement for the normalisation of gay/bi relationships on UK SF TV. Disappointingly puerile, juvenile stuff. -
Apr 08, 2008 4:09:31 PM CDT
The most surprising thing in this talkback...
by the handsome 12th doctor
... is that someone using the name spud mcspud isn't actually a Tater. Go figure.
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Heh heh! LOL ROFL :D
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that everyone is gay, just that it's not a big deal when someone is. In fact the Catman in Gridlock was clearly not gay or bi, given his interaction with thwe lesbian couple. Also, it could omnisexuality was a trait that proliferated in humans as they interbread non-human looking aliens.
I'm just glad to see that straight and gay characters alike are portraid in similar manner where their preference is not involved, and we don't the stereotypical voice and walk. and i don;t find Jack or Ianto to be at all unlikeable. And there is an undeniable attention to the complexities of all the characters relationships and i certainly thought the Owen/Gwen thing was a missstep, but that has more to do with the corrosive effects of secrecy in their lives than with sexual orientation. And Torchwood secifically is a show that deals with sexuality and sexual relationships in a very direct way.
As for Doctor Who and the relevanc to plot I think would much more like a message or agenda, if we got an episode whwere the universe was saved from Dalek's by someone's biness. I'm not even sure how that would work. And where in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday or the Christmas specials or the Shakespeare Code or any other number of episodes has homo or bisexuality even been mentioned. They might have been there and i missed it, but I can't recall them. The issue is the thrown into the background once in awhile, but as you've pointed out, McSpud, since they are not central to the plot one would think they could be easily ignored as too men or women holding hands in a street your driving by. The message is there if you wanted and can be skimmed over if you don't without changing the story, which seems the opposite of being heavyhanded. and i find it hard to think of any show, movie , or wrtten work that only entertains doesn't take some kind of ethical, social or political stance. Genesis of Daleks for example clearly adresses fascism and hate politics and the last Chapter of Key to Time has a very Catch 22ish antiwar message. -
Steve Moffat star Freema Ageyman as Marth Jones and Sean Pertwee as a Leathbrige Stewart like military leader. She solves the alien mysteries with a teram of experts he comes in with the army in very similar fashion to the Jon Pertwee years of Doctor Who. that could be a very cool spinoff.
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Apr 08, 2008 4:44:45 PM CDT
Oh right spud your not a bigot, just against the gay agenda.
by smashing
That's the mythical gay agenda that exists only in your head, nothing at all bigoted about that. As for the rest of your hysterical rant I say calm down man, I refute all your claims about me & I'm not the one posting the same moans about RTD's writing year after year. He is gay, he writes gay, its year 4 I mean come on, how thinly can you spread this? Your still complaining about a season 3 early episode, you gotta let it go.
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it as higly provocative but the British interviewer did not. It does appear to be stirring a lot of thought and conversation on the subject. And there can't be too much of that.
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Wow, you're a fucking retard.
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I've heard they're going to tone down the sexuality on Torchwood next year, and that John Barrowman may not even be back for more than a few appearances.
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In the season finale, she tells Owen, "Remember the mission when you were hung over and I took your place pretending to be a doctor?" And Owen replies, "Oh, the Space Pig!" So Tosh did reference 'Aliens of London'. Although it's debatable if she realized who the Doctor was.
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Martha Jones & Mickey Smith, are rumored to be joining Torchwood Next Season(Series).
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Smashing, I very reasonably put to you that you might be missing the point that people are making about the over-soapy nature of Who and you respond with that fucking unpleasant load of shit. It's clear that you are nothing more than a vicious militant and if we behaved in the way you do then you'd be up in arms calling us all fascists. If you want to debate why I think that it is a bad thing to have the balance shifted through RTD's constant focus on the companion's friends/ family then fine. If you want to sing about psuedo-derogatory gay slang at me then go and fuck yourself. Repeatedly and without lube. The point is- you can have human drama in Sci-fi without reducing it to some lovestruck kitchen sink crap (Blink was a great example of how to do it properly), and you can have the actual sci-fi without it being some "cold and frankly ludicrous science". There is a balance that can be found and at the moment it is off.
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It really bugs me in ,torchwood, there isn't a single straight male in torchwood now that owens dead. but then again, i never liked it anyway!
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It's 2 other things- 1) Predominance of soap-opera shit over actual drama/ sci-fi 2)The fact that the BBC and RTD's idea of adult sci-fi= every one filling any hole available at every cost. It isn't big, it isn't clever. It just seems like Torchwood is being written by a 13 year old adolescent who thinks it would be cool if captain jack shagged spike from buffy. And Owen looks like Crazy Frog.
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There are so many periferal issues that come bundled with homosexuality, that some times it's hard to discuss it without stepping on some toes. but if it was something more mundane and less of a hot-button issue; It's like.....
If four out of the five Torchwood team members wore a mustache, I think every one would agree that mustaches were being over-represented. The only conclusion would be that Russel Davies either, has a total inability to sympathize with non-mustachioed characters, or he is pushing some kind of strange mustache agenda.
It's like if everyone on Law and Order had their noses pierced, Thinking about how unlikely it is would take you out of the story. -
straight people.
So neiher Owen, Rhys, Gwen's cop buddy, the guy from the 1950s, or any character that has ever come on the show has ever been portrayed sympathetically. Or any male character nt specifically mentioned to be gay has ever been portrayed sympathetically. -
Apr 09, 2008 9:44:52 AM CDT
or any straight character that has ever been on Torchwood
by crichtonastronut
or any male or female character on Doctor Who not s[pecifically mention as gay. This cite really need an edit function on Talkbacks.
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Apr 09, 2008 10:07:55 AM CDT
and what's with all the exaggerated stats. "well over 80%"
by crichtonastronut
of Doctor Who episodes have gay references. Really. Over 80%. Is this the same series I've been watching. Was this in some kind of code I wouldn't recognize like the Teletubbie thing. You make it sound the whole series have been pretty much the whole series was like watching the title sequence to the Graham Norton Show.
And "Anyone filling every hole available at any cost."
Seems liker there have been a few episodes this season where sex barely played a part. Even in the infamous second seaon premier, the sexuality came down to two snoggs and a few jokes, and Jack asking Ianto out.
Their invovled inb a sexual relatiuonship, people involved iun a sexual relationship have sex occasionally get over it.
And honestly are the refrences or scenes an mre umerous or lude than those on Buffy or Angel except for occasionally involving two guys. Buffy even had Willow and Tara. Is it worse than having viagra commercials on everytime a sporting event has a time out. Or commercial startwith "do you have feminine itch"
Iy's not like their all prancing around in S&M gear.
I don't know what sheltered Pleasantville some people must live in, but I live in a world where sex is a pretty common topic of everyday discussion, as jokes, as relationships issues, as anything. And some of those peole appebn to be gay. -
If we are to believe RTD's subversion, then we would wrongly get the idea that homosexuals all enjoy casual sexual encounters and live life devoid of life partners or meaningful relationships. I think that the problem with what RDT does is that he assumes that he is the voice of the the gay community. However, his message would perhaps be more compelling if he did not devolve his (mis)representation of gays into adolescent territory. Although I am straight, this does not stop me from having a problem with this facile construction of homosexuality. Like Jarv stated, there is nothing sophisticated with RTD's approach...
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Alien fuckmonster episode when I wrote that one- the one that posessed that chick who then shagged a couple of people including her ex to death but was diffused through snogging jack because of his monster libido. Can't remember what it's called. It put me right off though. I agree though, I don't think there is an 80% rate either.
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one or two gay references a season equals eighty percent of the series.
One guy on guy snog equals slash fiction or porn.
I think perhaps it's the comparison with American tv where all the gays pretty much exist on the Will and Grace series or the Class. And are very and all walk and taklk the same. Except Barney's brother, HIMYM has always been a bit ahead of the pack. The idea seems to be its okay to be gay as long as you stay in your place, which is wherever "normal" can easily avoid you. Walk on that street not this one.
And I wouldn't dismiss Iannto and Jack's relationship as entirely shallow. They've diosplaysed some geniuine affection. And the infamous Griodlock lesbians were literally an old married couple. As for Jack's promiscuity. Fiction is full of heterosexual males that boast of frequent sexxual encounters. The afformentioned Barney being one. The promiscuous straight male rogue has been practically a staple since Cassanova. Do you you accuse the writers of these characters of saying no heterosexual can enjoy a commited meabningful relationship? Again seems like a double standard? and not being phsychic I don't know whast RTD assumes. I don't anyone who writes a gay character is the voice for all gays. I assume they're writing a gay character that hopefully will be given a voice of his or her own. -
and admitted as much in preview. BTW the concept was almost identical to the sex demon the second episode of Angel soeason one. And I think it was Jack's inability to die that was giving the sex alien indigestion.
I'm not saying torchwood doesn't a fare share of sexual content and references. I'm just saying apart from some of it involving two guys, it's not much different than anything else I see on tv now days. Lost and BSG, even the Stargate serieses have made a few references here and there, tame but there. Hell, Eli Stone has folks sleepiung around. And Life on Mars especailly the first season, some of those would have gotten and R rating if they movies. Hell, maybe Chibnal wrote in all the Torchwood sex. And we're not even going into HBO serieses. So I agree Torchwood has a lot of sex talk and content, but I think there's also a lot more to the series than titillation for gays or straights and sex is legitimate subject of science fiction just like any other kind of fiction. And here it's one color in a larger palat. And Doctor Who as a series is no where near as sexual in any direction. -
BTW how the hell does Mickey get back to this univers?
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RTD is gay, and he does have a gay agenda, in that he has decided to make the characters on Torchwood bisexual. Which is what they really are, not gay. Even Jack is attracted to Gwen.
Whether or not he's done it well, he's definitely decided to put it out there, especially on Torchwood. Which was probably a good thing, to focus it in the spin-off series. I mean, what else would he do, put his views in the closet? He was the producer of Queer as Folk, what else would you expect? -
It's like he's staging a coupe or somethings.
Gay Manifesto:
We Want to have Sex
We Want to have Sex Wiuth People We're Actually Attracted to.
We Want to Have Sex With People We're Actually Attracted to and Not Get Lynched.
And We Want to Get Married.
Get Laid Not Lyched. That's my motto.
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Anyone whom disagrees with you makes you feel so insecure you write toss like that post to me? Why you would think I would wish to debate anything with a rude and ignorant wanker like you after that little outburst above is beyond me, try re-reading my posts, you may, gasp, find humor & my point. Guess your such an insecure and hysterical individual it flew by you first time. I perfectly understand your FOUR YEAR old complaint about RTD's sci-fi writing, you, like many don't care for his writing style, message firmly received, I also understand it is not because you are homophobic, you just do not care for RTD' writing, message again received 3 years ago, do you have a new point?, if so I would like to see that, I happen to disagree with you, I gave my reasons and you chose to ignore them and call me a prick, ooh well debated you daft git. Also I'm not militant at all, but meeting people like you could change my mind.
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It's not so much having gay characters in Torchwood, as much as RTD puerile writing. Can you imagine Helena Russell walking in on Commander Koenig and Alan Carter rolling about naked IN THE CONTROL ROOM, then walking out with a titter? Or even Balter and Lee Adama on the Galactica flight deck? It's not only stupid writing, but shows a totally unprofessional attitude - but then, ALL the Torchwood cast appear unprofessional. And if RTD cannot take his characters seriously, how does he expect us to?? I'm still crying with laughter that he seriously expected us to feel some emotional resonance when Tosh poured out her feelings of love for frog-face Owen. If there had been SOME REASON that she loved him .. ANY REASON, it would perhaps have been a little moving. But it came from nowhere over the last few episodes - and for NO reason. WHAT reasons did Tosh have to fall in love with Owen? What had he EVER done for her, except go off and shag anyone else he could! So sorry, but that attempted shoe-horn, unrequited love aspect of the show just made me laugh long and hard, and think what an idiot was writing this crap. (But hey, I'll still watch). **** Oh, and let me say, I've NEVER, EVER had such negative feelings for any show - ever. I usually love ALL sci-fi and fantasy, even the poorer stuff. But I just find Torchwood soooooooooo insulting. It could, and SHOULD be so much better. (Even UFO, from almost 40 years ago, it streets ahead!!).
Is it too much to ask the show to take itself a little more seriously? It's SUPPOSED to be an adult show. I was REALLY excited to watch it when it first came on, but ever since I just end up staring at the screen in disbelief.
Hmmmmm... get Moffat on this show too!!! :) -
Did you do a little poll and conclude you now speak for the straight man, thought not. I love how you opened your post with the claim that you where being reasonable, then flamed me, what a wally. I was neither rude nor offensive when I stated my points, and unlike you and the unwashed Spud I never chose to demonise you to make my point, you must try harder, oh & I bet you have heard that before.
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I'm a bit sick of this endless 'gay agenda' debate. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that Russell writes Doctor Who purely to 'gay up' young people? Do you really believe that he shoehorns gayness into everything? As a gay man - his sexuality informs his entire life, just like your 'straightness' does your life. The very notion that he is pushing some agenda is utter nonsense. It's simply that the man writes about things from the point of view of his own life, like ALL writers do, apart from those who don't and their work is unmitigated tripe because there is no honesty there. No realism. And I for one salute the man and the production team. I was and indeed am an avid Doctor Who fan and have been for over 30 years and I firmly believe that the humanity and love, yes love that permeates the new series puts the original show to shame. I never cried when Tom Baker regenerated, but I did shed a tear when a Dalek begged to die. I never shuddered with a giddy thrill when Davros arrived in Genesis, but I could barely contain my joy when the Emperor Dalek arrived in that stunning climax to series one. Russell has made Doctor Who relevant and brilliant and fabulous and groovy and modern and yes every now and again they get things wrong...Daleks in New York... No sorry. But I for one am grateful to them all. It makes me smile and it makes me happy. (But I can't stick Torchwood!)
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I like Torchwood, some of the episodes are meh, but it's different, if only because of the raging hormones. It might also be the actors, I like Gwen and Tosh, even though she never got to do much.
As for Tosh mooning over Owen, wasn't that going on since the first season? -
The same way Rose does. Rumor has it that Rose, Mickey, her Mom & Dad all make it back by the end of this season(series).
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To fill the void when Doctor Who returns with 4 specials, (2 Xmas 2 other), Torchwood will be less of an adult show, more like Who. Also, less Captain Jack, which I think is strange.
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I liked Daleks in New York, I mean, as a New Yorker, I say, THANK YOU to the Daleks for their help in building the Empire State Building. LOL
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Send them to the zone Herc,send them to the zone... ;)
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YOu exploded when I reasonably pointed out that you missed the point that many don't happen to like the soap-opera nature of RTD's writing and then posted "Unlike most of the breeders." You vile, offensive, militatnt twat.
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Apr 10, 2008 9:56:15 AM CDT
I liked Daleks in New York too it wasn't perfect, but
by crichtonastronut
it had an old who charm to it, very remaniscent in style of original Who eps. Especially the early parts. I was sad to see Tom Baker go and I loved seeiong Davros first appear in Genesis of the Daleks. But I have loved the new who series and think RTD has gotten a hell of a lot more right than he's got wrong. And if he's not perfect, well who the hell is, I'm not going to waste my life waiting for the messiah of television writers to ermerge to hasve a littler fun. i get disturbed by the emount of negativity in alkbacks in general lately. it seems everything and everyone sucks. Peter Jackson sucks. Joss Whedon sucks. There's even someone with the screen name stating Batman Begins sucks. And yea, Spiderman3 had some flaws, but how does that erase the rest of his before career. How does it make the awesome Spiderman 2 suck. Have some fun enjoy the ride. Nobody ever dies say I wish I could have been more cynical.
As far as Torchwood goes, I suppose being a Farscape fan has sort of gotten me use to the presence of sex in fiction, unless it's just on a ridiculous level like Lex, so perhaps that makes Torchwood relatively tame by comparison. -
fun if they'd named it Daleks Take Manhatten.
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giving up on Western Civilization
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How amusing, you continually name call and avoid my points, do you think no one else sees your bullying actions?, you accuse me of missing your point, yet you choose too completely ignore all of mine. I repeat, for the 3rd time this talkback, I understand your issues with RTD's writing, I have addressed them twice now, please try and respond like a man not a tosser, also calling mainstreams like you "breeders" reveals what you really think, most straight lads care not for a silly nick name, you went mental over it, says a lot more about you than I dude.
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Yep, I too noticed the "breeders" thing, yet methinks that if I used the word "poof" or some other derogatory nickname to describe a gay person, you would be frothing at the mouth and calling us all homophobic bastards up and down this TB. Some of us heteros do know enough about the gay culture to know that "breeders" is not used as a 'silly nickname', it's intended as a gross insult along the lines of "poof" or "bent bastard". You've been caught out in your own little pit of hatred, which you conveniently rationalise by thinking that since you're either gay/bi or supportive of the gay/bi community, making you part of the 'persecuted minority', you cannot be a hater - rather like a bigoted black person thinking that hating whites isn't wrong because they are the persecuted minority, therefore anything goes as long as they aren't "the oppressors". Jarv and I have a long history of defending our white, English heritage on these TBs from haters who think they're in the right to hate on us because they aren't the imagined "oppressors" - ie, they aren't white, straight, English, male, or whatever you hate most.
Hate is hate, and that term was you exposing yours. Either cop it like a man, and admit your own prejudices (nobody's perfect after all) or stop being a hypocrite and going after imagined hate from other talkbackers when it's clear you haven't dealt with your own. -
If they sent Jason up against the Daleks - especially JASON X Jason - that could well be the perfect Doctor Who episode. Not one for the kiddies, sure, but fuck! What an episode!
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Why is RTD going back to the well bringing these guys back? I mean, yes they were fun, and they're still the best defined Companion characters out of the three previous seasons, but wasn't RTD going off in a lot in interviews pre-Season 3 about how great it is to have a new Companion, new characters for her family etc, and then he basically flushed them all up the wall? I'm still trying to figure out why RTD (who is fantastic at creating well-fleshed out background characters in everything else he does) has basically flushed away his chance to show that the Tyler family isn't the only well-written group of background characters he can do, and he blew it. Martha's family, friends, everything about her basically read like he couldn't be bothered to write them well.
So: Does Russel the T only like writing for poor white chavs, or did he not know how to write convincingly for middle class black people? Discuss. -
You never wanted it, you never requested it, but I'll give it to you anyway. 10 things I think RTD did brilliantly for new Who:
(1) He brought it back!!!
(2) He gave it that beautiful American gloss - that HD, colour-saturated brilliance that the Beeb formerly never achieved. He understood it needed to stand up against BUFFY, BSG, TREK and so on, and it does. Beautifully.
(3) Rose. He got that companion character, and her family and friends, pitch perfect. I don't think any previous companion has been as much a part of the audience's psyche as Rose Tyler.
(4) Brought back the mythology! Now every fanboy and girl out there is clamouring to know more about the last great Time War, the fall of Arcadia, the N-Bow Carriers, how the Time Lords and Gallifrey were destroyed... that's one epic backstory, brilliantly handled. So far...
(5) Dialogue. There's some sparkling lines in there.
(6) Daleks. Who thought there was so much emotion to be mined from these things? Although RTD only wrote the Dalek eps in Season 1 - how cool was the Emperor Dalek? The Genesis Ark? The Cult of Skaro? (Let's forget the Sec Hybrid, which wasn't RTD's fault...)
(7) Daleks vs Cybermen. The one sop RTD did throw to the fanboys/girls. Worked like gangbusters - only wish he had the budget to show more!
(8) Proper Christmas episodes. Shoehorning the Christmas agenda* into every Christmas episode (*ie have as much Christmassy imagery as you can possibly fit in!) works brilliantly too. Even if Robot Santas for two entirely unrelated invading species was not well thought out - did it not look, well, Christmassy? Beautifully done! (Let's forget VOTD...)
(9) Great actors for the Doctor. Who thought he'd get an actor of the calibre of Chris Ecclestone? And then follow him up with a relative unknown who was actually much better? Who can RTD top Tennant with?
(10) Sarah Jane. There's a lot of division over TORCHWOOD (yes, I think it's shit) but almost none over Sarah Jane Smith - she rocks! (as in the pejorative, she rocks). And the best spin off so far of new Who is definitely the SARAH JANE ADVENTURES, which at times threatens to be better than WHO itself!
Ten Things I Love About Who. Done and dusted. I'm not a COMPLETE RTD hater, y'know. -
Check this out:
http://tinyurl.com/525 jzf
About four posts down - the Russell T Davies Bingo Card!
I'll be playing this all through Season 4 - knock back a shot for every square completed per episode, and down a pint when you get a line / full house!
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I assume you where gazing at you're own when you wrote that Spud. I refute your claims that I would overreact if you use derogatory phrases, you do anyway just in different ways, why else do you continually bemoan a gay writers work?, like I have said before after all these years expecting him to change is silly, also if he reads all this shit he more than likely will hang on in there until he feels he has made his point, or won the dislikers over, you could be helping to continue his reign and deny the holy grail of Moffat, whose stories are amazing, though often leave me feeling a little cold or blue, maybe not a wise vibe for the show overall?
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Admittedly, that's nitpicking. It would also be nitpicking to point out that just because you say "I refute that!" before refuting something I said, that doesn't automatically make it refuted, except maybe in your head.
You CAN actually hate the way a gay writer writes, without the reason for that being some hidden reason, such as me supposedly being a homophobe. Maybe I don't have the slightest problem with RTD's sexuality, but I have a problem with the way he over-represents gay and bisexuality in what is, ostensibly, a sci-fi show. I'm not saying gay and bisexuality shouldn't be explored in sci-fi - they were handled well in Trek (DS9), Lexx, Farscape, Buffy... But the way RTD writes it is ham-fisted, preachy, not remotely related to whatever plot it happens to be inserted into, and generally feels like someone trying to shoehorn his personal ideals into the narrative of a show which is nothing to do with political correctness, but is everything to do with SCIENCE FICTION!
Here's a pointer: how much do you know about who/what/where/when Captain Jack has fucked whichever character you care to name? The answer will be: a lot more than you know about his Time Agency, how the Agency works, what it does, why he is so into the idea of hanging with the Doctor... His sexuality is so much more important to the writers than his backstory that his libido is this defining character trait. And before anyone starts going on about "no-one would say anything if it were all hetero stuff going on":
THIS IS A SHOW FOR 6 YEAR OLDS!
I may think HOLLYOAKS has a mature and reasonably well written handle on non-hetero relationships, and I do think so in fact, but do I think it's suitable for 6-year olds? Do I think of Hollyoaks as a kids' show, as Doctor Who is?
Hell no. You know what my problems with RTD's writing are, and the fact he is gay is incidental. I'm more bored with reiterating where I'm coming from that you ever will be. Just go back up a few posts and read what Tirgavaya says about the puerility inherent in TORCHWOOD - the immature style of writing is what's making the gay/bi elements of the plot look hamfisted and preachy - because it feels like it's being written by 16 year olds who think it's edgy to have some gay/bi action in a primetime show. As I said before, many times, EASTENDERS beat them to that over twenty years ago. It ain't cutting edge or cool or whatever - it's desperate and attention-seeking the way they write it, because it ain't serving the plot and it ain't making the show more adult, mature, complex, realistic, or edgy - it just sticks out like a sore thumb as a bunch of writers who think pushing the buttons of people like me (who actually appreciate ADULT writing, not sub-Skins bollocks like this). HOLLYOAKS actually portrays gay relationships much more realistically and maturely than WHO or TW these days. That's how bad it is in the hands of RTD. Strange, since he pioneered this in QUEER AS FOLK. But then again, what's the thrill in writing for the greatest sci-fi show the UK has ever produced, when you could just upset fans of good writing, Mary Whitehouse and the entrenched homophobes who tremble at the name of Smashing?
Really, for fuck's sake man, change the bloody record. You've no idea how boring it is being wilfully misunderstood by people like you, desperate to be hated by imaginary haters to justify your fucking martyr complexes. Just get out of the closet, stop hating those who don't fully understand you, and live your life without telling the rest of us what to think.
For the ideal explanation of the RTD writing, and why it doesn't work for new Who, just read what Automaton Overlord says above about too many moustaches in Torchwood, or nose rings in Law and Order. Read it until it makes sense to you, even if it takes months. He's talking about YOU - people who can't get past their desire to hate heteros ("breeders" as you so charmingly put it earlier) enough to hear what they are saying. You're a hypocrite, and a militant. And I refute your imminent refutations. However, I do know what you're saying about Moffat - all his stories are tinged with a little too much melancholy for a prime-time kids' show. Maybe lightening up is what he needs to be a truly great writer, as RTD needs to get past his own personal issues to write plot over his own prejudices. -
A few points:1) "I refute your claims that I would overreact if you use derogatory phrases," So I'm Ok to refer to you as "Bender" everytime that I talk to you? The reason the breeders comment is offensive (and it is) is that it is sneeringly derogatory towards the heterosexual population. My wife was raised by 2 gay men in San Fransisco, and finds the term virulently offensive. I'm sick to fucking death of having to apologise for being white, middle class, English and straight. I do not refer to you or those that share your lifestyle in unpleasant discriminatory terms, so please show us the same courtesy. 2)Disliking someone's work has NOTHING to do with sexuality- I am a big fan of Gay playwrights/ authors/ comedians (Oscar Wilde, Stephen Fry, Alan Carr etc) and Drama (Queer as Folk, Priest, but not Brokeback Mountain because it was dull). I just honestly think that Who could be a lot better. If you think it is perfect and are going to defend it forever because RTD is part of your community then I would suggest that you have the problem not us. 3) Re Martha. I have a feeling (compltely groundless)that Tate was committed elsewhere and could not sign up for last series. This meant they needed a stop-gap companion. 4)I don't like the return of rose-
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and her family, if she were ionly meant to be a temp before Tate, than why write in a family with so much backstory and hints at more at all. And why try tyo fit Martha into Torchwood and back into Doctor Who if he wanted to drop that character. What I wonder is if he's being pressured because of negative fan reaction to lossing Rose, to get rid of Martha and the negative association with Rose's departure. There seemed to be too many references to Matha's parents break-up, Martha's sister and brother, and too much potential in her mother's character distinct from her father, for the only payoff to be those last three episodes of season three.
Whether the plan has always been to put her in to Torchwood or whether this was his way to getb her back if for whatever reason he was unable to keep her on Doctor Who, I don't know, but I don't beleive we've heard the full story of Martha Jones, yet. -
and keep it sexless, please. I want to get back to hating Tate on her own terms.
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handling homo and bisexuality well. I thought the best part of the Trek episode with Dax and her former wife when she had a male host, the taboo over their relationship had nothing to do with them both being women. Willow and Tara was a beautiful love story. Farscapes had a breif but appealing apearance of Nebari Androgen and there was the, are they, arent they, thing with Braca and Scorpius. And the classic "I am the female of my species you know." Though I do fault Whedon for making Andrew straight in the last episode of Angel cause he had become an it would have been nice to have a gay male character as sympathetic and interesting as Andrew had become by the end of Buffy and whose sexuality was inted as being homosexual in Buffy. Or that outside of Farscape three dimnsional homosexual and bisexual characters in SciFi and fantasy tend to be to be predominately women, and mle homo and bi sexuality have wo-fully under represented. But those series do stand out having made mature, intelligent, and sensitve and mature depictions of homo and bisexuals.
Lexx on the other hand, I tend to see as overburdened with sexual inuedo of all kinds, and I mean even ignoring the fact that the main characters are all basically flying around in giant penis, whose sperm destroys planets. Mybeit just in't to my taste but I had trouble getting into Lexx. I did like the season when they were on the heaven and hell planets with the guy from Forever Knight, and liked a few of the episodes idividually, but most of the Earth eps and most of the balance of the series as a whole, I just didn't connect with them, at least when I saw them. I might see if my perspective has changed since then someday. I do love Cleks and Apatow type humor. Anyway, I've enjkoyed these discussion, they've really made me think about things. -
Apr 11, 2008 3:23:25 PM CDT
Whedon revealed in the comics that Andrew was joking that night.
by smashing
He meant about the fake Buffy in Italy so maybe Andrew was just playing the part?, he is still camp as hell in the series 8 comic, also Xander and Dracula have stayed friends!
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One of the best episodes of new Who in all the four years so far. Where's the fucking talkback?
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Spud man :>.I'm off to watch episode now.Hope it's good.Heres a sexy Dr Who pic to help pass some http://tinyurl.com/3pzyyg.Take it EZ.
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Spud man :>.I'm off to watch episode now.Hope it's good.Heres a sexy Dr Who pic to help pass some time http://tinyurl.com/3pzyyg.Take it EZ.
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Just what I needed - a shot of Ursula from the end of LOVE AND MONSTERS!! :D
Two pieces of tarmac are having a beer in a bar. Suddenly in wlaks a particularly jagged piece of tarmac with white dotted lines down his centre. He has a pint and then stares menacingly at the other bits of road drinking. The first tarmac backs toward the door. The second says "What are you doing? Why are we leaving?" The first says "See that guy? He's a cycle path!" :D
Thank you, I'm here all week. Try the Zygons. -
New lands to conquer sir,see you in THE FUTURE...........
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