Cool News
Jubba (The Talkbacker) Asks WHERE IN THE WORLD IS OSAMA BIN LADEN??
Merrick here...
Jubba (from the Talkbacks) got a look at Morgan Spurlock's very cool looking WHERE IN THE WORLD IS OSAMA BIN LADEN? [TRAILER HERE].
Jubba has a lot to say, so I'll turn you over to him...
I live in Toronto and I just got back from the Canadian premiere of "Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden", the new documentary film by Morgan Spurlock, whose previous credits include the anti-McDonald's flick "Supersize Me" and the TV series "30 Days".
I'm going to try to keep this relatively spoiler-free, but keep in mind that it's a real-world documentary and Spurlock didn't die during it's creation...so that should tell you something. Tonight was a pretty cool experience because Spurlock was there in person to introduce the film and to take questions afterwards. He set up the movie by saying that he came up with the idea just after GW Bush was re-elected and the media was focusing on the fact that Osama was still at large. Wanting to follow up what he referred to as the unexpected worldwide success of Supersize Me, Spurlock decided to make his next feature about finding Bin Laden, since it would be of global importance, which he apparently felt was an important factor in following up a film about the dangers of fast food.
I didn't love Supersize Me - I found it entertaining and shed some light on how those with lower incomes are drawn to the golden arches, but the first thing I wanted to do when I left that film was to grab a quarter pounder. What I'm saying is: for me it was a fun watch and sometimes informative. but there were too many times when I felt that the humour was being forced or that only one side of a story was being told. In comparison, I think that WWOBL is a more mature film, both in its subject matter and in its delivery by Spurlock.
During pre-production for the movie Spurlock's partner became pregnant and it was because of this that the movie took on a sort of central theme: what kind of world do I want to raise a child in? Spurlock sets out on the trail of the world's most notorious terrorist with the intention of asking him what can be done to end the fighting and violence. Though, as he told us at the Q&A, he wouldn't have expected anything more than a lot of crazy talk about bringing down America, which would have been a waste of time for the film makers.
The film opens with a fairly humourous "Mortal Kombat"-style CG fight between Spurlock and Bin Laden, to set the stage for a video game theme that will tie the many locations of the movie together. He told us afterwards that video games are an important factor in his life and he wanted to entertain his audience while hopefully making them think. There isn't too much of the forced humour this time around and much of the comedic moments come from the interviews and the honest answers/reactions of the many citizens from all around the world that Spurlock encountered. In short, much of this movie is based on the humanity of people around the world and how similar values are shared from country to country and the humour that we experience feels like the good times any one of us would have in the company of our friends or family. This is one of the ways that this film is more mature than Supersize Me.
In preparation for his trip, we see Spurlock going through training - how to survive a grenade attack, how to avoid snipers, and how to deal with terrorists if taken hostage. All situations had some element of humour thrown in to make it more enjoyable to watch, but there is no doubt that he was getting ready to go to some very dangerous places and in the Q&A he talked about some of the scary situations he got into that didn't make it into the film. He said that the DVD will contain more of the 900+ hours of footage that they shot and that his upcoming book (also called WWOBL) includes many more detailed stories about his experiences abroad.
During the film, we watch Spurlock travel to Egypt, Morocco, Israel, Palenstinian settlements, the border of the Gaza Strip, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. Much of the scenery we are given are familiar from the news or other movies that have taken us to the Middle East. What we get to see a little more of here is the insides of the houses and schools where people are trying to live their lives under the constant threat of attacks. He travels alone at times, while other times he is escorted by local militia or by the US Army. He gets to fire a rocket launcher, too...very cool.
Everywhere he goes, he asks people about their views on the US-led "war on terror", Bin Laden, and the conflicts in their country. Sometimes, we see him talking to extremists who declare Bin Laden to be a great warrior and others who wish nothing but harm to America. Other times, however, we get to see interviews with "regular" citizens who just want to live their lives in peace. We see common themes of wanting to raise their children safely, giving them a good education, and giving them opportunity in life so that they don't have to be tempted by extremists or terrorists as a way out of poverty. This is the main point of the entire movie, really - that most people want peace and safety, but that the governments are not willing to give up their long-fought wars to achieve this.
We see that very little of the foreign aid intended to help many of these countries has reached the people to help them rebuild homes or schools, though Spurlock admitted in our Q&A that he didn't set out to make a Michael Moore type of movie bashing Bush...he said that is like making a layup shot these days, it's just too easy.
There are some funny interviews, some shocking interviews, and some downright frightening scenes during Spurlock's travels, but I won't give out details that will spoil them. Some of the most interesting interviews are those that never take place, either because the people being approached start verbally attacking the camera crew and calling in their religious reinforcements, or because the questions asked aren't allowed to be answered...and I'm not willing to say more, but the people who act these ways are not necessarily the people you would expect to see shouting radical religious attacks on Westerners.
The film then begs the question, how can anything ever be solved peacefully if people aren't willing to even talk about the issues at hand. Conversely, there is a great interview with an extremist who is more than happy to sit down and discuss issues in a calm fashion - and again it's not the "type" of person you'd expect to see doing this.
All of this, keep in mind, is being done while in constant touch with his partner back home as she prepares to have a baby, not ever knowing if her baby's father will be back in time for the delivery or if he will make it back at all. This movie doesn't offer any quick-fix solutions to war or to terrorism but it does highlight the fact that the roots of global conflicts are much deeper than just a single man who chooses whatever cause he can to justify his actions and that finding Osama Bin Laden wouldn't actually solve anything.
People worldwide, for the most part, just want to live in peace in a way that they can raise their children properly and safely. Pretty much everywhere he went, people said that the "normals" far outnumber the "crazies", but that the "crazies" have a louder voice. It sounds like the book would be a great companion piece to the movie and that DVD will be full of great extras that didn't make the final cut of the film. Spurlock grew up along with with this movie, he's now a proud father, and he has been told by his partner than his next movie has to be about nothing more dangerous than pretty flowers. This flick isn't perfect and it probably won't be for everyone - but anyone who takes the time to see it will be entertained at least to some degree and you can't help but walk away feeling that the world isn't so bad because so many of its people have the same values as you and me.
I'm not big into politics or following world news too closely and I was able to follow and enjoy this movie. It entertains and informs and is worth locating when it hits theatres in early May. Check it out.
-Jubba
I'm going to try to keep this relatively spoiler-free, but keep in mind that it's a real-world documentary and Spurlock didn't die during it's creation...so that should tell you something. Tonight was a pretty cool experience because Spurlock was there in person to introduce the film and to take questions afterwards. He set up the movie by saying that he came up with the idea just after GW Bush was re-elected and the media was focusing on the fact that Osama was still at large. Wanting to follow up what he referred to as the unexpected worldwide success of Supersize Me, Spurlock decided to make his next feature about finding Bin Laden, since it would be of global importance, which he apparently felt was an important factor in following up a film about the dangers of fast food.
I didn't love Supersize Me - I found it entertaining and shed some light on how those with lower incomes are drawn to the golden arches, but the first thing I wanted to do when I left that film was to grab a quarter pounder. What I'm saying is: for me it was a fun watch and sometimes informative. but there were too many times when I felt that the humour was being forced or that only one side of a story was being told. In comparison, I think that WWOBL is a more mature film, both in its subject matter and in its delivery by Spurlock.
During pre-production for the movie Spurlock's partner became pregnant and it was because of this that the movie took on a sort of central theme: what kind of world do I want to raise a child in? Spurlock sets out on the trail of the world's most notorious terrorist with the intention of asking him what can be done to end the fighting and violence. Though, as he told us at the Q&A, he wouldn't have expected anything more than a lot of crazy talk about bringing down America, which would have been a waste of time for the film makers.
The film opens with a fairly humourous "Mortal Kombat"-style CG fight between Spurlock and Bin Laden, to set the stage for a video game theme that will tie the many locations of the movie together. He told us afterwards that video games are an important factor in his life and he wanted to entertain his audience while hopefully making them think. There isn't too much of the forced humour this time around and much of the comedic moments come from the interviews and the honest answers/reactions of the many citizens from all around the world that Spurlock encountered. In short, much of this movie is based on the humanity of people around the world and how similar values are shared from country to country and the humour that we experience feels like the good times any one of us would have in the company of our friends or family. This is one of the ways that this film is more mature than Supersize Me.
In preparation for his trip, we see Spurlock going through training - how to survive a grenade attack, how to avoid snipers, and how to deal with terrorists if taken hostage. All situations had some element of humour thrown in to make it more enjoyable to watch, but there is no doubt that he was getting ready to go to some very dangerous places and in the Q&A he talked about some of the scary situations he got into that didn't make it into the film. He said that the DVD will contain more of the 900+ hours of footage that they shot and that his upcoming book (also called WWOBL) includes many more detailed stories about his experiences abroad.
During the film, we watch Spurlock travel to Egypt, Morocco, Israel, Palenstinian settlements, the border of the Gaza Strip, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. Much of the scenery we are given are familiar from the news or other movies that have taken us to the Middle East. What we get to see a little more of here is the insides of the houses and schools where people are trying to live their lives under the constant threat of attacks. He travels alone at times, while other times he is escorted by local militia or by the US Army. He gets to fire a rocket launcher, too...very cool.
Everywhere he goes, he asks people about their views on the US-led "war on terror", Bin Laden, and the conflicts in their country. Sometimes, we see him talking to extremists who declare Bin Laden to be a great warrior and others who wish nothing but harm to America. Other times, however, we get to see interviews with "regular" citizens who just want to live their lives in peace. We see common themes of wanting to raise their children safely, giving them a good education, and giving them opportunity in life so that they don't have to be tempted by extremists or terrorists as a way out of poverty. This is the main point of the entire movie, really - that most people want peace and safety, but that the governments are not willing to give up their long-fought wars to achieve this.
We see that very little of the foreign aid intended to help many of these countries has reached the people to help them rebuild homes or schools, though Spurlock admitted in our Q&A that he didn't set out to make a Michael Moore type of movie bashing Bush...he said that is like making a layup shot these days, it's just too easy.
There are some funny interviews, some shocking interviews, and some downright frightening scenes during Spurlock's travels, but I won't give out details that will spoil them. Some of the most interesting interviews are those that never take place, either because the people being approached start verbally attacking the camera crew and calling in their religious reinforcements, or because the questions asked aren't allowed to be answered...and I'm not willing to say more, but the people who act these ways are not necessarily the people you would expect to see shouting radical religious attacks on Westerners.
The film then begs the question, how can anything ever be solved peacefully if people aren't willing to even talk about the issues at hand. Conversely, there is a great interview with an extremist who is more than happy to sit down and discuss issues in a calm fashion - and again it's not the "type" of person you'd expect to see doing this.
All of this, keep in mind, is being done while in constant touch with his partner back home as she prepares to have a baby, not ever knowing if her baby's father will be back in time for the delivery or if he will make it back at all. This movie doesn't offer any quick-fix solutions to war or to terrorism but it does highlight the fact that the roots of global conflicts are much deeper than just a single man who chooses whatever cause he can to justify his actions and that finding Osama Bin Laden wouldn't actually solve anything.
People worldwide, for the most part, just want to live in peace in a way that they can raise their children properly and safely. Pretty much everywhere he went, people said that the "normals" far outnumber the "crazies", but that the "crazies" have a louder voice. It sounds like the book would be a great companion piece to the movie and that DVD will be full of great extras that didn't make the final cut of the film. Spurlock grew up along with with this movie, he's now a proud father, and he has been told by his partner than his next movie has to be about nothing more dangerous than pretty flowers. This flick isn't perfect and it probably won't be for everyone - but anyone who takes the time to see it will be entertained at least to some degree and you can't help but walk away feeling that the world isn't so bad because so many of its people have the same values as you and me.
I'm not big into politics or following world news too closely and I was able to follow and enjoy this movie. It entertains and informs and is worth locating when it hits theatres in early May. Check it out.
-Jubba
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not that i care... but i am.
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Watch this thread turn into an internet psych ward.
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http://tinyurl.com/ystomn
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since Kurt & Courtney.
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love it!
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No one would enjoy that film!
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Talk about "april fools"... You can spout all the Stalinist, Treasonous, Americans-who-hate- America crap...and you'll still be just as dead the next time these animals you support with articles like this attack and kill you or someone you love.
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I believe this is a type of Chlorobionta; typically blossoms around the first of April.
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There's also a lot in the film that shows how people in the mid-east are taught misinformation about America and it's reasons for doing what it's doing in world politics...but then again we in the West are often given misinformation about how people operate overseas.
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He doesn't catch Osama!? That is a bigger spoiler than the ending to Fight Club, The Sixth Sense, and Free Willy all rolled into one! Anyways, the trailer for this freakin' hilarious, and since not much else is playing in April, I'll probably lay down some cash for this one.
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Apr 01, 2008 10:06:45 AM CDT
no documentary could ever make me as
by lloyd bonafide the korean war veteran
happy as kong. KONG KONG KONG!!!
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Touting "change" (Boy if he gets in will there ever be)
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seriously, where is he? I believe the US military has him and will announce shortly "We got him" to the reception of thunderous applause. Then a video will be shown of a very unshaven Michael Moore going through a roughed up dentistry check up.
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I agree that Supersize Me wasn't about just being Anti-McDs...but it sure wasn't pro McD's, either. He chose the biggest fast food burger joint to use as an example of where people go to make bad choices given the options they are prsented with and the potential consequences of such actions. The film was sometimes marketed (in my opinion) as anti-McD's and I just used that statement to try to quickly get to talking about WWOBL.
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from the guy who brought us the amazing insight that eating nothing but junk food for a month makes you fat, a documentary centred around the amazing insight that most people in the world love their kids.
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Now get in here and make Rush Limbaugh proud!
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Much better than the ultra-lame Fast Food Nation . . . with Avril Lavigne quoting a Power Point presentation about meat production.This sounds lame, like his TV show, which was also ultra-lame. I think Spurlock has had his 15 minutes. Buh-bye.
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Morgan Spurlock being an idiot. Choking down sausage egg and cheese biscuits until you puke is not McDonald's fault, it's yours, you douchebag. The hand-to-mouth motion is controlled by you, loser, not the ghost of Ray Kroc.
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It was pro-narcissistic jack-ass.
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You really are losing it. The last few talkbacks you have participated in have been... wow...
Can't wait to see your head explode when your worst nightmare comes true and our next president has the middle name Hussein. -
They should make that a videogame! Based off the Carmen Sandiego engine!
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I Googled your "article", and it isn't an article at all - rather, an opinion piece by Debbie Schlussel, a right-wing harpy who really wants to be Ann Coulter, if only she could grow a penis. If you read the "article", she's also suspicious of Spurlock's claims that he found Bin Laden. A real genius, she is.
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...waiting for his Chicken McMaggots.
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HAHAHAA lol merrick you almost got me , april fools day. ok serious now. this 'documentary' is a self absorbed piece of crap with zero educational value. amen.
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Because the trailer made it look like he was going to be spending half of the movie asking random people "Do you know where Osama Bin Laden is?" Which didn't really seem that interesting to me. This review made it sound much better than that. It'd be a nice surprise if it was actually okay...
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He's at home...washing his tights!Seriously, someone needs to find that fucker and force him into a ring with Uwe Boll ala MiraJeff. Beatdown City!
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Always telling people what they want to hear and preaching to the choir, whether it was your poor mother or the cops. You haven't changed a bit. All that changed was the number of people willing to give you money for your stunts. Skel.
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I've wanted her to super-size me for years.
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"You can spout all the Stalinist, Treasonous, Americans-who-hate- America crap...and you'll still be just as dead the next time these animals you support with articles like this attack and kill you or someone you love."--------
Anyone that disagrees with you hates America right?--------
"and you'll still be just as dead the next time these animals you support with articles like this attack and kill you or someone you love."--------which animals? GW? The CIA? Are you saying AICN supports terrorism? -
"You can spout all the Stalinist, Treasonous, Americans-who-hate- America crap...and you'll still be just as dead the next time these animals you support with articles like this attack and kill you or someone you love."--------
Anyone that disagrees with you hates America right?--------
"and you'll still be just as dead the next time these animals you support with articles like this attack and kill you or someone you love."--------which animals? GW? The CIA? Are you saying AICN supports terrorism? -
that uss cygnus always provides us with hilarious quotes. Doc P is right, I think your head will explode, or are you made of glass like that wizard dude from Conan the Destroyer? (I must apologize for that reference, but it was on a week or so ago on cinemax and I was flipping channels and arrived at that part. I just HAD to watch it.)
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and deserves a regular appearance on aicn.
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It's made me want to see the movie a lot more. That publicity stunt where they said they actually have an interview with him pissed me off though.
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Fast Food Nation was disgusting...I couldn't eat a hamburger again after that. Some things are better left unsaid. I would like to think my Whopper with cheese grows on trees, but that movie totally ruined it for me. Ignorance is bliss. I didn't WANT to know how a slaughter house worked. I curse my veggie girlfriend for forcing me to watch this.
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he doesnt actually believe that stuff he writes, it's only to get a rise out of folks with extremism. i've done before too!
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"The film then begs the question, how can anything ever be solved peacefully if people aren't willing to even talk about the issues at hand."
No it doesn't. It ASKS that question. "Begging the question" means using circular reasoning, assuming X as one of your premises as part of an argument to prove that X is true. -
thanks for the compliment...my last review was after an advanced screening of In The Name Of The King: A Dungeon Siege Tale....it was more fun to write that review than it was to watch the movie..haha...I'll send in more reviews as I get into more premieres, etc...thanks.
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Why waste your time with the mental midgets that populate AICN? You should be spending your time over at the MENSA talkbacks.
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so obvious
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i assume you're joking...i'm an unemployed animation student in toronto. i'd LOVE to be a plant - if anyone out there wants to hire me to be their studio's plant, contact me through AICN!
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Fucking sacrilege. Spurlock ain't no Indiana Jones. He's just an attention seeking asshole.
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Wait a second Mann "Trannie" Coulters of the world -- how the hell is being critical of Bush's disastrous, deliriously incompetent, geopolitically ignorant, mind-numbingly stupid, and, yes, even evil policies synonymous with "hating America?" I don't fucking hate America you NeoCon fucks, I LOVE IT. I JUST HATE THE INCOMPETENT CHICKEN HAWK NEO-NAZI OIL BARON FUCKS RUNNING THE COUNTRY INTO THE GROUND NOW WITH THEIR FAILED AND INANE POLICIES. Its you assholes, the NeoCon Front, the well-funded Fox"News" propaganda podium polishers, who fucking hate it and want to turn it into a religio-fascist / corporate-hegemonic dictatorship. FUCK YOU. Fuck all you NeoCon fucks. You're the assholes who hate and are destroying this country. THANKFULLY, the vast majority of the country FINALLY sees this and wants you GONE. Good riddance.
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I bought 3.
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There is no Bin Laden anyway. Benazir Bhutto said he was assasinated in an interview shortly before she died, hence she died. The end.
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Relax bud. Don't fall for the bait. Good post though.
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I like em with the hot mustard.
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Yeah, I know it was bait, but I just got pissed and hadda rant, ya know what I mean?
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Cygnus is nothing but a fat, smelly obsessed Trekkie who resents people who look and behave normally. If I were him I'd have slit my own throat a long time ago, but maybe his mother needs the rent money.
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BEST PART OF SUPERSIZE ME? THE FRIES THAT DON'T BIODEGRADE!!!
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Because if when we don't question our government, stuff gets done. Isn't that right civil rights, slavery and women's rights?
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S'OK...even the dopey get a voice in the USA! How do you negotiate with Islamo-Facists when their starting point is our deaths? That is their goal, make no mistake. They are savages who love death, like we love life. We can end the threat by killing most, imprisoning more (Club Gitmo-Retreat from the stress of Jihad)and exporting the virtues of Jeffersonian democracy and Capitalism. No time to blow yourself up...when you're out making money.
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Keep it coming, I'm getting a boner.
But seriously, you do realize that a billion or so muslims get along everyday without blowing themselves up, right? Maybe if you blew yourself up, I might take your opinions more seriously. How about it? -
He's confusing Muslims with Klingons. Hey Cygnus, why do you hate the Federation so much?
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Wendy's is superior. MMmmmmm.
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I agree with your point of view, but seriously, man, settle down. You're going to give yourself a hernia, and make sensible patriots look like juvenile name-calling morons in the process. It's important to disagree, but do it with a little dignity, eh?
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that pussy eat one extra value meal and throw up...fuck my 10 year sister can eat that shit and shes fine.
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Unless you are some jack-booted right-wing freak who claims something is treason just because they don't want to hear it. Funny how "patriotic" they all are until someone starts actually using their freedom to talk about things they don't want to hear. Do us all a favor: keep sucking Limbaugh's gigantic, drug-addict, woman-beating man-tits and stay off forums about films, ok?
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That is all.
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- In 1996, in Al Qaeda's declaration of war on the West, they predicted victory due to the lack of resolve of liberals and other ignorant cowards like some in this talkback.
- In 1998, the Clinton administration found plenty of reason without citing Al Qaeda, to make regime change in Iraq a US foreign policy objective.
- In 2002, the Iraq war authorization bill cited more than 20 points authorizing military action against Iraq. This did not completely rely on WMD or Al Qaeda. Read this resolution.
- Saddam's FBI interrogator states that Saddam planned and had the ability to quickly restart his WMD once the heat was off. Google it.
You obviously have the right to act like ignorant cowards. We are simply suggesting that you are not behaving responsibly in doing so.
If you want some additional perspective, read "Islam and the West" by Bernard Lewis. Basically, that part of the world has not experienced an Age of Reason or an Enlightment and is still trying to survive and provide for their families much the same way they did in the first millenia AD. They are brainwashed in hatred of jews and the US because their leaders have a powerful tool in Islam to keep the average person (especially women) acting like sheep. -
Oozman, you ignorant slut.
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Yes. There are exceptions such as JFK, LBJ, Pat Moynihan, but they are a dying breed. Post '60s liberals want to "give peace a chance" and look away from the ensuing genocides in Southeast Asia. They morally equivocated the West with the USSR especially during the Reagan years also out of cowardice and ignorance. Thanks to Reagan, Thatcher, the PJPII, there is now a Ronald Reagan Square in Warsaw. Liberals find the most to blame with the West and the least to blame with anyone else. They are close-minded, ignorant and regressive as they taut the same gratification-based view of morality practiced by cavemen. So, yes, the average liberal is a close-minded, ignorant, regressive, coward who is repeating the same sad mistakes on display in history generation after generation. I refer you to the people and mainstream media who applauded Chamberlain as he got off the plane and declared "Peace in our times" after surrendering a chunk of Europe to Hitler.
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As trite today as it was when Mr King uttered the words.
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Only an arrogant hubristic neocon would open up another front in the "War On Terror" while the Allies were trying to stabilize Afghanistan. Tactical and strategic stupidity. There isn't a single nation on this planet who's ever conducted a completely (I'm not just talking about the initial victory...I'm speaking of long term as in the Fat Lady Singing) victorius campaign in Afghanistan. Why suck our precious resources (see: Allied soldiers lives) away from the main theater for what is turning out to be a largely unsuccessful and disastrous campaign in Iraq (going in is always the relatively easy part)? I hope it all turns out for the better in Iraq but it's still not looking anywhere solid enough for the US to let the Iraqi government run the show on their own. Way to hand Iraq over to the Iranians neocons! Instead of some half-assed documentarian looking for Osama the US should still be in the Eastern 'stan in full force and not stopping until we've hunted HIS (speaking of cowards) chicken-shit ass down and brought him back to the US to stand trial...then execution. Nah, prison would be better. Anyway, there are plenty of ass-kicking "liberals (talk about an over used word)" in the military, at least the ones I deal with. BTW, here's my invitation to move to another country since you seem so appaled by all of us "liberals" living here. Ha-ha, can't wait to see how you O So Superior Uber Right-wangers act when you address President Obama...HAH-HAH!
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Just when I thought putting ccchhhrrriiisssm to bed was my good deed for the day.
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waaaaahhhhh!
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Buy a happy meal. Problem solved.
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End the war.
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That the sock you splooge into when you masturbate to Fox News?
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Morgan Spurlock is a documentary filmmaker, that's why people may or may not care what he thinks. You obviously don't give a shit, so what the fuck are you doing here? Where's your award winning documentary?
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These fascist douchebags have had free reign long enough. Illegal wars, corruption, religious zealots and greed aside, most of these fucks don't even believe in evolution. Your scorn is completely justifiable, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who's sick of these deluded morons running their collective mouths. Send them back to suckling Karl Rove's teat.
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If he had there wouldn't have been the famous "Dead or Alive" speech, or any of the macho bullshit that followed. If the U.S. had been serious about catching Bin Laden, there would have been no press conferences declaring who was responsible for 9/11 until after the offenders were dead. They would have quietly dispatched Black-Ops to the region and woken the fucker up with a silenced MK-23 in his face. Conventional warfare in that region has never worked, and as the Sovs found out in the 80's, and as we're learning now, it never will. You can't sprinkle democracy on the continent like it's a fucking condiment expecting people to say "Gee thanks we hadn't thought of that". These people believe they get their freedom in the afterlife. There's nothing you can do to them that will change their mind.
I find it disturbing that we're openly opposed to the notion of assassinating the leader of a sovereign nation, but we have no problem cluster bombing their entire infrastructure into oblivion, killing thousands of civilians, thousands of our own, underpaid, insufficiently equipped troops, only to have to flip the bill to rebuild all the shit we blew up. Not to mention that our nation bears the resentment of every citizen who lost a father, mother or sibling, because we can't aim a laser guided bomb, and that each of those angry souls is a potential ally lost, and their surviving family are potential enemies gained.
If they'd wanted Bin Laden, they'd have kept their fucking mouths shut, kept his name from the media, and sent all the spec-ops in the world straight up his dialysis dependant ass. Who the fuck can't find a six foot Arab with health problems?
As an unashamed liberal, I have no fucking problem with our government ghosting bad guys, but we need to grow up and realize that the world has become way too small to fight wars that way. Nail these fuckers with an unannounced sniper round before they know you're coming, and then they can't hide out in the hills of Pakistan. If you're going to give the U.N. a big "Fuck You" anyway, then what difference would it have made if we'd sent in a covert unit to assassinate Saddam Hussein, rather than getting a thousands of innocent people killed and destabilizing the whole region and sending our own economy into the shitter to pay for it.
For a bunch of greedy conservatives you'd think you'd have realized that covert ops are in the long run much cheaper. Give the CIA their balls back, and in the future make your macho press statements after the bad guys are dead. -
Just sayin'.
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Hey Oozman, I'm a fucking liberal you piece of shit. You calling me a coward? I will pound your fucking face into paste, you shit for brains. Tell me where you live and maybe we can get together sometime and I can make you beg for universal healthcare.
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display some more blinding ignorance for us. it's amusing.
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Apr 03, 2008 7:45:55 AM CDT
cruel-kingdom, I appreciate your support. Oozman however....
by scytheofluna
It's all good. We've let this stuff slide long enough. These guys use the same sad, worn out tactics in every debate, and it has to stop---wait, did oozman call us ignorant and closed minded? Oh hell no. Really? Were the liberals the ones who sent our troops into Iraq with outdated Vietnam era urban battle tactics and without sufficient staff who could speak Arabic or Farsi? I mean how important is it to be able to speak to the locals if you're trying to win "hearts and minds" anyway? If libs are so ignorant, why was I saying that this war was a bad idea 5 years ago while idiots like you were saying the war would be over within a month? If I'm so fucking closed minded why do I have the insight to realize that you cannot fight a war against an ideology, and that one mans terrorist is another (granted misguided) man's revolutionary. You cannot change peoples minds by killing their families with mortars and 7.62 shells, they're just not going to see things your way. You cannot force these people to evolve and become a part of the 21st century, when some of them are heavily armed and content to live the way they did 500 years ago. Yeah, we blame YOU the ignorant closed minded fuckwits who happily swallowed the shovel of bullshit fed to you by this administration smiling as you slurp it up with a side order of fear tactics and misdirection. Iraq didn't attack us, and as I pointed out in my previous post the appropriate way to deal with Saddam (who was indeed a total fuckhead) was with an unannounced sniper round, not with CNN press coverage and a bunch of lies about how the Iraqi people would welcome us with roses, or Bush standing on an aircraft carrier wearing a uniform he has no right to wear declaring "mission accomplished" several thousand body bags too early. So go ahead and call us cowards you naive fuck, but maybe you should put your ass on the line instead of running your fucking mouth. If you're so convinced this administration is doing the right thing, then why aren't you over in Iraq getting fragged right now instead of spewing inane nonsense here?
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Apr 03, 2008 7:57:24 AM CDT
Regon, I'm not usually one for physical violence, however...
by scytheofluna
There's something gratifying about pounding the stupid out of an ignorant moron. Oozman, the gauntlet has been cast down it seems. As fun as that sounds it isn't worth the cost of the airfare. Maybe oozman could try to reiterate for us why the war in Iraq was such a good idea. I defy him to come up with five positive things that have come out of the war, and they better be good enough to be worth 4 thousand of our best and brightest, and countless thousands of brown people he obviously doesn't care about. Defend your position rube.
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Amazing how when the Left can never debate the point long enough before running to the safety of insults and ignorance. Anyway, Oozman good on ya, stay strong. First: Mission Accomplished referred to the overthrow of the Iraqi government. That mission was indeed accomplished. Premature to declare an end to major combat operations though. Uncle George goofed on that one. Second: You can't change minds with Mortars and Bullets. Maybe not. But you can kill a whole bunch of bad guys. And I think you'll find the vast majority of Iraqi's want to live in the 21st century. Only a small percentage of terrorists and Saddam loyalists want us to fail. And sadly, a great deal of Leftist on AICN. Third: Give the CIA its balls back? Hell yes! A leftist point I can agree with. Fourth: I'll give you 5 positive things. 1. Saddam is no longer in power 2. We have killed thousands of terrorists 3. Al Quaida can no longer call us the "Paper Tiger" - we did what we said we'd do 4. We have freed 29 million people from savage Baath party rule 5. If your side of the aisle lets us finish...we have a very nice place to set up some Air Bases for the invasion of Iran. Fifth: Never in the history of civilization has a 5 year ground war claimed the lives of only 4000 service members. Each loss tragic (I have family members in the military who have lost good friends) but certainly in the unemotional evaluation of war, acceptable. Now, bring it on Leftists! Do you worst, but try to make some sense and not spout 4 letter words like teenagers, OK? Engage in intelligent debate, it's fun!
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no idea if anyone is going to come here but hot damn how these dummies bungled it truly. though it would have to be one impressive hardcore unit to go in there find him and take out his immediate defenders, not only that but he probably already figured theyd be on him after the attacks. as for iraq i dont know if any CIA team is that good to just dust dictators nowadays. however one doesnt know if one has tried!
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If you judge a man by his actions, then it's George W. Bush and his supporters who hate America. How else can you explain a President who starts a war of choice that he can't pay for, adding trillions of dollars to the national debt who passed the largest increase in entitlement programs since Lyndon Johnson in the 60's thus adding billions more to the future unfunded liabilities that we already have in Social Security and Medicare and who decides that parts of our Constitution don't apply to his Administration? A President that loves America would do none of the above.
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No war is ever "paid for." It is financed along the way, either by economic manufacturing boom, war bonds or tax hikes. Or sadly, deficit spending. Want to talk deficit, lefties? In comparison to GDP...it is miniscule! If Congress had acted to reform SS and Medicare then there would be no further issue. Let's talk Constitution...tell me specifically what parts W felt didn't apply. Be specific. All W did was keep this nation safe for the last 8 years and your side doesn't like it. Amazing!
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