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VERONICA MARS!! GALACTICA!! SOUTH PARK!! WIRE!! LOST!! Empire Magazine Picks The 50 Best TV Shows Of All Time!!
I am – Hercules!!
Britain’s Empire magazine has chosen the 50 best TV shows ever made. Turns out they think only 39 of them are American shows!
50. Quantum Leap
49. Prison Break
48. Veronica Mars
47. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
46. Sex and the City
45. Farscape
44. Cracker
43. Star Trek
42. Only Fools and Horses
41. Band of Brothers
40. Life On Mars
39. Monty Python’s Flying Circus
38. Curb Your Enthusiasm
37. Star Trek: The Next Generation
36. Father Ted
35. Alias
34. Frasier
33. CSI
32. Babylon 5
31. Deadwood
30. Dexter
29. ER
28. Fawlty Towers
27. Six Feet Under
26. Red Dwarf
25. Futurama
24. Twin Peaks
23. The Office
22. The Shield
21. Angel
20. Blackadder
19. Scrubs
18. Arrested Development
17. South Park
16. Doctor Who
15. Heroes
14. Firefly
13. Battlestar Galactica
12. Family Guy
11. Seinfeld
10. SPACED 
9. THE X-FILES
8. THE WIRE
7. FRIENDS
6. 24
5. LOST
4. THE WEST WING
3. THE SOPRANOS
2. BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
1. THE SIMPSONS
Empire shoehorns 11 limey shows into the list and none of them is “The Prisoner”?? “Only Fools and Horses” gets a higher ranking than the original Kirk-Spock “Star Trek”?? “Father Ted” ranks higher than “Monty Python”? “Family Guy” makes the list but -- hey now! -- not “The Larry Sanders Show”???? Empire offers explanations here.
How does Empire’s list stack up against others?
This was UGO’s Top 10:
10. The Price Is Right
9. South Park
8. The Simpsons
7. Freaks and Geeks
6. The Muppet Show
5. Arrested Development
4. The Sopranos
3. Battlestar Galactica
2. The Wire
1. Buffy The Vampire Slayer
“Buffy,” “Sopranos” and “Simpsons” are the market-leaders. They are the only three that made the Empire and UGO top-10 lists, as well as Time’s 2007 all-time 100. (All three also made TV Guide’s 2002 top-50 list -- if you want to throw a list from the pre-“Wire” era into the mix).
Note that nine of Empire’s top 10, “The Simpsons,” “Buffy The Vampire Slayer,” “The Sopranos,” “The West Wing,” “Lost,” “24,” “Friends,” “The Wire” and “The X-Files,” all made Time’s all-time Top-100 list last year. (“Spaced” was the only component of Empire’s top 10 absent from Time’s 100.)
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Only 24? Half the shows ahead of it wouldn't be on today without TP.
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Sorry to post again but I just noticed that. This list is bonkers!
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Wow slow day.
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Buffy is No. 2? Seriously?? ROMFLAFOAMAO it goes Simpsons > Lost > Sopranos > The Wire > everything else.
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And buffy the vampire slayer is better than the wire? Total bullshit.
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...that the people who put this list together are collectively barely drinking age considering most of the entries are from the last ten to fifteen years. Even British television was good when we in the States were enjoying M*A*S*H. For once, I'd like to see one of these lists that REALLY takes in the full breadth of television's history and not just the formative years of the person creating the list. I know remembering history isn't vogue (else we wouldn't have so many protesting the War on Terror); but if you want a "The Greatest..." list to have the least amount of validity, consider looking back further than when you were suckling your mother's teet.
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Am I reading this right? SERIOUSLY? That's the biggest injustice of all. It's clearly a Top 10 show IMHO. And it's certainly in my Top 5.
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it should be around 30. 24 sucks. Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu Kung Fu
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simple as that. i'll settle for UGO's #2
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No, Jennifer Anniston still won't sleep with you, Empire TV picker!
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"Family guy" is the only true travesty. Where's "I'm Alan Partridge"?
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This list, this magazine, is bullshit. Bollocks. plain stoopid.
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is fucking bullshit. Nothing else to say. Absolute trash and Empire's editors should be ashamed. Seriously, it's scary how awful this list is. Scrubs at 19? I don't even know how that's possible. I could name 19 better TV shows if I had my memory erased and my tongue cut out.
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Y'know, don't get me know I love the show, but how exactly does it get on the list, or at least get HIGHER on the list than stuff like Monty Python and Farscape?
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They've realized they're obsolete as a source of new information.
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Especially when a list states that the best South Park episode of all time was "Make Love, Not Warcraft". Also, while "The Germans" may be the most memorable of the Fawlty Towers episodes, it certainly isn't the best. "Communication Problems" gets my vote.
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SIMPSONS FTW!! The No.1 on this list is the only thing they got right.
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that's saying something right there. the movie proved that last year i guess. it should, it was fucking mindblowing. i'm surprised south park was in the bottom ten. remember when the all time greatest show was seinfeld? jerry seinfeld had the greatest show of all time and now he has a wife with a plagurized cook book and a fucking bee cartoon.
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I find myself surfing the channels and more and more I'm watching a seinfeld episode, albeit one I almost know by heart. Always funny.
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The list was made from a poll posted on the empire website and had nothing to do with the magazine editors.
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* The Larry Sanders Show
* Curb Your Enthusiasm
Word to your mother.
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No way should that shitty show be on that list!
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Of course there are some questionables... but at least most of the pure quality is there.
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This really is sad. No Twilight Zone? No All Creatures Great and Small? No Brideshead Revisited? Your Show of Shows? The Dick Van Dyke Show? The Andy Griffith Show? I Love Lucy? Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood? Sesame Street? The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson? Hell, I'd watch Family Feud before many of the shows on this list. Do these people not realize television existed before 1990? I've never seen anything so silly in my life.
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I did not know that. I guess the Empire website's readers are simply retarded infants then.
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... but it falls apart in the top 10, especially with the Simpsons and Friends in there.
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i guess they want to see Billy and grandpa at each others throats.
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Okay I love Scrubs, and I'm glad it made the list, but how can you honor that show without offering a nod to the show Scrubs is obviously so desperately trying to be. you know MASH, just the show that had the most watched episode of any series EVER!
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Father Ted is better than Star Trek TNG?
Family Guy is better than Twin Peaks?
Prison Break is on the top 50 list?
There's a lot of great shows on the list but all lists like this really demonstrate is the stupidity of lists like this. -
wth?
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what a dumbass list
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Although the order may be a little skewed. As much as I love Buffy, I wouldn't say it's better than The Wire, and I loved Angel an ungodly amount more, but it just seems sacriligious to be higher than Twin Peaks. A lot of good stuff on there though, Frasier, for instance.
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The more I'm filled with blinding rage. I can't comment on the shows I haven't seen, but this thing looks like it was compiled by a twelve year old trying his hardest to actually come up with fifty shows. I'm a huge fan of Heroes, but to call it the 15th best show of all time after one good season (with a mediocre finale) and one piss poor mess of a half-season is just stupid. and I know this will enrage some people but the American import of The Office has far exceeded the quality of the original. Much like Next Generation versus Original trek, you have to give credit to the pioneering show, but you can't sanely argue that the second incarnation isn't just superior. prison break is just another flash in the pan. Good first season, horrifically bad second season. Don't even get me started on Sex in the City. God I hate this list. I can't even think in complete thoughts anymore.
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I'm at work and the NCAA Tourney is about to start so I don't have all day to think about this but just off the top of my head, here are the Top 20 half-hours and Top 10 hour-long shows I've ever invested myself in.
1. The Wonder Years
2. Seinfeld
3. Curb Your Enthusiasm
4. Friends
5. The Simpsons
6. The Office
7. Sex and the City
8. Arrested Development
9. The Mind of the Married Man
10. Sports Night
11. The Twilight Zone
12. I Love Lucy
13. Mr. Show with Bob and David
14. The State
15. The Dana Carvey Show
16. Action!
17. Undeclared
18. Weeds
19. Saved By the Bell
20. Cops
1. The Wire
2. The Sopranos
3. Lost
4. Freaks and Geeks
5. Homicide: Life on the Street
6. Big Love
7. Six Feet Under
8. 24
9. Dawson's Creek
10. Law and Order: SVU -
Glad it made the list. I prefer it over Buffy, but I'm probably alone there.
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There's some good stuff on it, but the order is not right at all. Also, no Larry Sanders, but Scrubs. Also, it is not premature to add Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and In Treatment to the list.
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That should be in the top 5.
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Huh.
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great fuckin list...
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Soooo...I see Family Guy in front of South Park. Big fucking fauxpas.
Cartman has already stated why.
But the worst thing: I see Friends in front of Six Feet Under. While a completely different genre and tonally in a different world a funny scene of Six Feet Under has ten times the wit of a "better" scene on Friends. Friends is insulting crap. The fact that it's in the top ten is just disturbing. So ...why the fuck don't you list TV-Shows the way you list films, namely in their respective genres and forms?? -
way to go.
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I f they called this the "Editor's favroties" I couldn't bitch, but yeah. I hadn't even thought of Wonder Years MiraJeff. How about All in the Family? Happy days? Married... with children? Shows that actually impacted society.
And yes it is too premature to include Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and In Treatment... a show has to be on a for a few seasons before you can say its a "greatest." There a lot of shows that started out great but ended up dreadful after a year. -
That would be much easier to stomach... and then I could understand the "Heroes" and "Losts"
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I like Family Guy alright, but better than Arrested Development, Futurama and South Park? Really? Jesus. These lists will never please everybody, but, at the very least, they could not contain ridiculousness.
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suck. They make me sad. They are a display of collective stupidity.
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See, I watch British TV. But that list is the worst ever. I think I will go make my own list of best tv shows, which I'm surprised I haven't done already. I doubt if I'll be able to come up with 50 though, I'm not really a fan of television.
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That's complete nonsense seeing as Band of Brothers is easily the best piece of television ever produce. Hell, it's one of the best pieces of film ever produced.
While I'm on the subject, where the hell is From the Earth to the Moon? -
Time for Duncan to call Clarence Weidman for another job. ;)
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As an editor this would make me so mad I'd just fake it I guess. Btw: Another thing you do with films (mostly) is that you differ between American, British and/or foreign films. You do that although sometimes it's hard to tell "where" a film is from as it involves talent and money from all over the world. However...even though mostly crap...there ARE indeed television shows outside the English speaking world. Yeah...believe it or not. And while television is mainly dominated by the US of A and the UK (and I'm grateful for that) there are not many but some great foreign shows out there. *sigh* What I wanna say is that it's fucking ignorant (but speaking for the state of the art-as far as tv and the way we think about it are concerned)to proclaim these shows the universalle best of all time.
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did i miss something? all time?
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replace that 'e' with an 'y' and make it universally. And correct all the other syntax and spelling mistakes. thanks.
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... is a fucking joke. Seriously.
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Jesus Deep Space Nine made the list but not Star Trek Voyager.... Bull Shit!!!
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I agree, Herb. This list was compiled by feeble-minded teenagers (or perhaps pre-teens). The Prisoner alone is more original, more thought provoking, better written, better acted, better directed and generally more daring than most of the shows on this list put together.With a bare handful of exceptions (e.g., The Muppet Show), this list is compiled as if there was no such thing as television before 1990. And, btw, anyone who places the POS that was Friends on their top anything list is a fucking moron. That show was truly insufferable.
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i knew i made that list too fast... married with children would definitely be on it. cops was more of a joke, but i'll be damned if that show hasn't had its share of entertaining moments, unintentional or not. i'll be back after texas kicks the shit out of stanford. don't mess with texas!
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the father of all tv shows
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is Freaks and Geeks, Empire? How could anyone choose Arrested Development over Freaks and Geeks? Fuckheads.
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You should be grateful you got that many :p
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This is an English list, a lot of shows like The Wire get a lot less attention over there. Series like Only Fools and Horses and legendary in England, even if Yanks have never heard of them.
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fuck... prison break and dexter? wtf? i think not. dexter has 24 episodes in the can and it's on the list? CSI should not be near any "best" lists ever (although i fear it will always show up) and... god i always get mad when these lists come out because they're never perfect
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At the very least, that show should be on the top ten. Was this list made by a small farm family in Colorado?
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and dumped it on their website. That's how little they think of it. It's a shame how far Empire has fallen from its early years in terms of quality. The only reason to read it these days is to see what movie maven Kim Newman is reviewing. He's flat out the best movie reviewer in the world. For the record, Mark Kermode comes in at number two (and if you've got access to BBC Radio 5 Live via whatever means, just check out his weekly broadcast/podcast).
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When oh when will American society collectively sober up to the crushing reality that Friends is one of the worst television shows of all time? I've hated it since the first time I ever saw it. It is derivative, uninspired, witless, toothless, patently insincere, shallow, utterly predictable, gutless, culturally worthless, lowest-common denominator targeted mass market swill; the least influential, meaningful or otherwise important cultural phenomenon ever.
Other than that and Monty Python being ranked so low this list actually isn't that bad. -
What, no Chucklevision?
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There are only three or four shows on this list that didn't have first run episodes past 1990. Hello?!? Where are classic television that blow away half the shows on this list like All in the Family, MASH, the Fugitive, Hill Street Blues, I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners,etc. Don't they get Nick at Night in England? I figured Empire was run by a bunch of geeks, but I didn't realize it was run by geeks all under the age of 30.
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but I am fucking glad Spaced was in there; amazing show, geared towards us geeks. And I agree with you, Prior Walter, Angel was better than Buffy, especially near the end. Okay, flame away...
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I don't even know if it would be on my top 50 of all time guilty pleasures on TV. How anyone could put them on a top 50 list of all time is mind-boggling. Prision Break is TV junk food. It isn't good for you, It tastes good when you consume it, but isn't all that satisfying. You forget about it soon after you consume it.
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... I can not apologise enough for that fucking abortion of a list that "claims" that Friends IS FUCKING BETTER THAN THE WIRE!!! WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT!! WHAT THE FUCK!! Seriously WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!
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Voyager = Star Trek: The Next Generation: The Next Generation.
It was just a rip off of TNG. Determining whether the doctor was an artist and therefore a person is a mirror of "Measure of a Man" in which Data's sentience was brought into question. Q popping up not once, not twice, but three times. And when Voyager did push the limits, it stunk. Remember the Warp 10 episode "Threshold" and Tom and Janeway became like bug worm alien things and had children? It was so bad that it was forgot about in its own series when they kept saying warp 9.9 is the fastest anyone has ever gone. Or how when Seven of Nine joins the crew, a lot of the episodes become about her because the nerds want eye candy. Voyager's best episodes, like "Year of Hell," couldn't hold a candle to the likes of "The Best of Both Worlds Part 1," "All Good Things...," "Tapestry," or "Measure of a Man." -
would have a sense of history and not pander to current tastes so blatantly. It would also be based on having actually watched MANY TV series. Where's Phil Silvers? Where Homicide: Life on the Street? etc. etc. This is silly.
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Extras on it. Or did it, I can't recall. And yeah, Angel was better than Buffy. Seasons 3 and 4 are astounding.
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dragnet? the twilight zone? etc. etc.
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As gay as it would be thanks to Herc being in love with all things Buffy, it would be a zillion times better than a list that doesn't even include The Twilight Zone. Sure, the last two Twilight Zone attempts have sucked, but the original series ruled...
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NO MISS JEAN'S STORYTIME?!?!?!
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Just scroll down to the end of every Tuesday HercVault.
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No Larry Saunders, no M*A*S*H and the vapid evil that is Friends placed so highly. Am currently ashamed to be British. And generally annoyed that Empire has so dropped in quality over the last few years. It used to be a must read but now it's a meh.
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flying circus is there - though i can understand if you missed it - i had to reread a few times, expecially after my temporary rage-induced blindness at seeing Friends on there. Blech
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Your right, Capt. Nothing shows this list's intrinsic idiocy like the inclusion of the abysmal, disappointing Heroes. This show must have one of the worst second season's ever.
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shows. I totally fucking agree with it! Then again I did get my start learning about movie geek news with probably the best movie mag ever. Empire. HOOAH!
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"I guess the Empire website's readers are simply retarded infants then".
That's brilliant, brilliant stuff. More incendiary reporting from the frontline of McDonalds Counter like this please AICN!
Yup-yup. PS - *trollhat on* Albemarle - if you love it so much, get the name right. Meh. bakatcha. I think its a good list - Friends IS better than The Wire, and I don't even like Friends! Fire in the hole! -
All In The Family? Lucy?..Andy Griffith Show? et al
DALLAS?? (LOL) -
Run! When they see this everything is over!! Prepare to have this talkback Browncoated.
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You're right, I can't spell. That's how crap the Empire list is, I was rendered briefly stoopid by its sheer awfulness.
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and no, not the spotnitz-helmed abomination he called the remake.
the original one. -
Quantum Leap is the 50th best television show? WTF? Quantum Leap was ok but there are 50 show on my television right now that are at least as good as Quantum Leap. Nothing wrong with Quantum Leap but I wouldn't even think to put it on a list of the 100 greatest shows ever.
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Cracker and Father Ted deserve to be there. Scrubs, maybe, if they had quit after season 3.
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There's Firefly. Maybe reading the list before assuming mainstream media ignored your favourite show would help.
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"Veronica Mars" makes the list, but only at #48. Someone's gonna get a beat-down, I reckon!
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Glad you and a half a million others got a kick out of it. I know I sure did. And Specktron, I didn't realize I was manning the McDonalds counter these days. Thanks for clearing that up you knicker-dropping wanker.
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How can you not put MASH on this. This list is completely useless and EMPIRE SUCKS.
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This list is just as retarded as the every other list you've posted. Stop giving them attention.
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Family Guy? Seriously? And ranked higher than South Park? Give me a fuckin break. Both shows have declined in quality, for sure, but Family Guy, on its best episode, was never better than a mediocre South Park. Also no MASH, no All in the Family, no I Love Lucy??? Lots of these shows are good, but don't hold a candle to the other ones.
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Which Office are they referring to? Both are great, and both deserve different spots on the list
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It's not that I don't "get" Sienfeld, because I do. I just don't find it funny. It's dull and repetitive and lazy and up it's own ass.
As for the rest of the list...well yeah, of course The Simpsons is #1...it's the TV version of Star Wars in terms of being a cultural phenomenon. Prison Break is nice popcorn entertainment, but it's the equivalent of putting Independence Day in the top 50 movies list.
Law & Order should be there before CSI, Only Fools & Horses is a hell of a lot better than Friends and Siendfeld AND Larry Sanders put together...and here's the comment that's going to get me flamed...
Firefly shouldn't be on the list.
No tv series that was cancelled after a single season should be on a Best TV Show list, unless the series was only intended for a single season.
I also think that any show that has been been in production for under 7 years (general syndication time) that is still in production while a list is being compiled should also be excluded...this means that shows like Lost and Heroes should be excluded until they either reach 7 seasons or finish their run, whichever happens first. Only then should the show be eligible for inclusion in the list. -
http://tinyurl.com/2vt4ja
I rest my case. -
I before E except after crap :P
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...no. Fuck this list in it's entirety.
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ARSE! FECK! DRINK!
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So the high rank was on the strength of season 1 alone. Not an excuse, just an explanation.
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twighlight zone, aint on it, cased closed
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As Backup will chase down others while Weevil and Logan wreck their cars and Mac will hack into their computers, and...you get the pic.
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Off the top of my head: Honeymooners, Twilight Zone, Laugh In, I Love Lucy, All in the Family, Cosby Show, Three's Company, MASH, Married with Children, MST3K, Cheers, and mother-fucking Homicide. What a mind-boggling out of touch list written by someone who doesn't realize television existed before 1998.
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Next time coaxial gets slow do one of these. Let us vote our top 10 shows and count them down giving us a tb for each show. Us geeks like lists, us geeks like arguing, us geeks like arguing over lists, it just makes sense.
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Am I biased towards this show? Perhaps. But who has ever seen an episode or two that isn't biased towards it's greatness. Not a fan of this list at all. At all.
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Hell, Family Guy, PERIOD?
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along with all the other screwed up 'best of lists' cobbled together by the bottom of barrel movie going masses. Family Guy as the 12th 'greatest' tv series of all time? Really? No matter how you interpret the term 'greatest' that doesn't compute. Either most of their readership didn't actually take part or I should be proud to not be a subscriber.
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Pathetic list, based on polls from morons.
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This almost entirely ignores TV before 1990. And if you're going to make a best of 1990-present, excluding Larry Sanders is kinda criminal.
My tastes tends towards the more recent, and this catches a lot of good ones. It also overrates a few current shows (anyone who watched the most recent season of Prison Break knows how not-great it's been). -
in front of The Wire:Bullshit!
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The Muppet Show. Deserves to be in the top 10 of any list, of anything.
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And C should be on there twice! This is a fucking travesty and Empire's fans must be a race of mentally-retarded apes descended from men with Downs Syndrome. I'm so fucking furious I could just paint flames all over my mint condition Optimus Prime!!!!!!!!!
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that the fact that PRISON BREAK is on this list pretty much invalidates any authentic status this countdown has.
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of anything of all time....no i love lucy, twighlight zone, the fugitive, st elsewhere, hill street blues, dick van dyke, bob newhart, mary tyler moore or homicide on the list??? friends does not belong on anyone's list for anything
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monty python, fawlty towers or steptoe and son??? fuck, these guys are real idiots
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btw...any tv top list must have kovacs on it....without kovacs there is no laff-in, no snl, no letterman, etc....the man was an originator when no one had a clue what tv was really about....kovacs motherfuckers....ernie fuckin kovacs...dont forget that name
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they were so far down on the list that i missed them...
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Judd for The Defense. The Outsider. Tush. The Rifleman. 120 Minutes. Morning Stretch. My Mother The Car. Action. The Loop. Greg The Bunny. Thundarr the Barbarian. Saving Grace. Joan of Arcadia. The Venture Brothers. Night Flight. buffalo bill. The duck Factory. Just Shoot Me. New Wave Theatre. Nude Female Volleyball.Okay, that last one isn't really a show, but it would be at the top of the ratings most weeks if it was.
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Bull-Fucking Shit
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But seriously, it's a bunch of good-to-great shows in no particular order. But complaining about great shows like Firefly or Seinfeld or something just makes you look stupid. We get it - you're not smart enough to "get" some good shows, which may or may not "belong" at certain slots on a list like that. There are actual BAD shows to complain about that don't make you look ignorant. Try those!
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Any list of top 50 shows that doesn't include Homocide: Life On The Streets is shit
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Hence- most people in this country don't actually like Seinfeld- as in at all- (I do but I know many people- most who have never watched the show- who hate the show).
And this list has nothing to do with how cool the empire staff are- it was voted for by average joes- hence 'the best show ever' Freaks and Geeks typically didn't place.
Hero's ranked high as the second series has never aired here.
i love lucy, st elsewhere, dick van dyke, bob newhart, MST3K, mary tyler moore, honeymooners- these are all references that mean nothing to most brits. They may air on repeats regularly Stateside but never over here (at least not in my lifetime.
It's the same as a British person moaning that 'Only Fools and Horses' didn't appear in an us-based lists (because that show was easily the biggest show in Britain for twenty years).
I'm still disappointed the OC didn't get even a low placing- but it's just a poll- I'll live. -
can't spell at 2 am, of course it is spelled Homicide
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Well done!
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Most of them are crap!
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NO CREDIBILITY.
If you have never seen the show, do yourselves a favor and pick up the best of. Amazing show. Amazing extras.
"The Wire" is the best show ever.
For those of you coming to bat for "Married with Children", you clearly did not watch the finale three seasons. So, so bad. -
thank god for the voice of reason. if you had posted at the start of this i could have saved the last few minutes of my life reading these yanks bitching about 1960's sitcoms. i am embarrassed about mash not being on the list. and no ari gold
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to see the MiraJeff video? Just curious.
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Farscape sucked ass.And Buffy in the top 10? That crappy show shouldn't have made it into the top 50...
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Seriously?
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Frasier is a Norm-less show! Norm show beats Norm-less show every time!
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Hifuckinglarious.
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Firstly as most people have pointed out most of the shows people are mentioning ( I Love Lucy? What??) mean nothing to us Brits.
Ok secondly this poll is as much about popularity as it is about quality. A lot of people LOVE Father Ted, and Only Fools and Horses is held in very high esteem. Similarly having 'Friends' so high is fair - I'm not sure how much airtime it still gets in the US, but its shown at least like 10 times a day here. Whether or not its good, its has a pretty big impact, because we don't have the stream of endless sitcoms you guys have.
Also I'm suprised the Wire is so high in the list. I would be hard pushed to find many folk that had really heard of it. I'm not sure it really got shown on TV here apart from on an obscure cable channel FX. I understand that may be criminal to many people....
BUT anyway - its a trivial internet poll, an Empire fluff-piece. You see a poll like on a website, you think for about 30 seconds about something you saw recently that was good, and put down Prison Break.
I think its fairly reflective of what shows are popular/in peoples mind's just now. Really the question is why didn't Neighbours make it on the list? -
But kind of what I would expect for fucking Empire now days.
It's a pamphlet, not a magazine. Apart from when it's full of adverts at Christmas.
As for the level of reporting, it seems to presume that the average reader has the same level of film knowledge as a Sun reader.
Some very good shows not high enough and some great shows missed out altogether.
If it was voted for by forum users then I guess Empire staff can look at this and get a pretty good idea of who their readers are...and shudder. -
While I don't agree with alot and i do mean alot of shows on the list i do love some of them.For instants...i love Family Guy sure it's should not be that high on the list but what's with all the hate for the show.Buffy,Angel..great shows to me.Now where the list fails is not having the Wire as number on..also not having Homicide life on the streets on the list hurts.Friend is a drab,rascist show..Sex in the city in just a mental porn show for old women,and hell if I konw why the Twlight Zone did not make the cut..All in all nobody is going to agree with ever list,we all have our favorite shows even if others think less of them
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http://tinyurl.com/2exkrx
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And what the fucks with people complaining about shows like I Love Lucy? Its a British magazine, the only reason I know what the fuck that show is, is because of the Simpsons. I'm shocked the Wire is in this, I dont know a person whose seen it here, its on a channel most people dont know esists. This list is just a reflection of whats on peoples mind currently through an internet pole, why do people give a hoot. And what the fucks with the Father Ted bashing. Any Father Ted haters can feck right off.
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Farscape frelling rocked first season.
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Seinfeld, Sports Night, The US Office, I Love Lucy, Arrested Development, Mr. Show and hundreds named never took of at all here. The trend seems that onlu US sitcoms and shows with gimmicks seem to take off. I'd like to note that this note is a clear representation of people who read empire and not the British public, because nobody knows Spaced, The Wire, Veronica Mars, Dexter. Anyone responsible for voting Spced higher than Fawlty Towers and Blackadder has no respect for logic.
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Mar 29, 2008 8:25:22 AM CDT
why post a British list on US site anyway? [ignore last post]
by nobletoast13
Seinfeld, Sports Night, The US Office, I Love Lucy, Arrested Development, Mr. Show and hundreds named never took of at all here. The trend seems that only traditional US sitcoms and shows with gimmicks seem to take off. I'd like to note that this list is a clear representation of people who read empire and not the British public, because nobody knows Spaced, The Wire, Veronica Mars, Dexter. Anyone responsible for voting Spaced higher than Fawlty Towers and Blackadder has no respect for logic, history, justice and whats funny. (and I actually like Spaced)
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Duckman was amazing and in retrospect feels ahead of its time. And where are Milton Berle, Red Skelton, Jackie Gleason, Carol Burnett, Your Show of Shows, and the Dick Van Dyke Show??? Come to think of it, where's Ed Sullivan?
And whoever asked about I Love Lucy has a point. Desi Arnaz INVENTED the sitcom.
Oh and say what you will about SNL after 30 years, when it hit in '75 it was a total game-changer.
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Empire copped out. They didn't specify whether they were referring to the Brit version, the Yank version, or if #23 is a two-for-one.
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just thought id throw that in. And whats a SNL?
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it had a decent following in Britain. As does Whedon and his serieses. DS9 should be on the list for breaking out of the pandering formula that TNG slipped in to and Voyager threw the franchise back into. I like to think of it as one briefe shining moment when the Star trek franchise might have joined the future scifi greats like Babylon 5 and Farscape. Then along came Voyager.
I'm a little surprised Life on Mars isn't higher on the list not to mention Veronica Mars. Being more recent especially Life on Mars. Farscape keeping the love after all the time it's been gone is aweome, stil people in the U. S. who've never heard of it. Overall, pretty solid list. -
This list is missing the greatest British TV series ever made - The Boys From The Black Stuff. Not to mention the lack of great comedy shows such as I'm Alan Partridge, The Day Today/Brass Eye, Peep Show (I know it’s recent), The Young Ones (may have dated a bit but it still revolutionary), The Royle Family and the masterpiece that is Phoenix Nights. At least Cracker was on there. I think the most accurate list i've seen was the More 4 Top 50 drama shows one, although that had a giant Lost sized hole. Probably still bitter over losing the rights to it.
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The Sopranos
Boys From the Blackstuff
Edge of Darkness
The Singing Detective
Cathy Come Home
The West Wing
Cracker
Our Friends in the North
Twin Peaks
Heimat
Prime Suspect
Pennies From Heaven
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy
I, Claudius
Das Boot
A Very British Coup
This Life
Abigail’s Party
Hill Street Blues
Queer as Folk
Sex Traffic
Bleak House
House of Cards
Shameless
Talking to a Stranger
Doctor Who
24
Scum
Brideshead Revisited
Traffik
Blue Remembered Hills
Warriors
The Naked Civil Servant
Bloody Sunday
Auf Wiedersehen Pet
Talking Heads
Hillsborough
The Prisoner
Shooting the Past
Pride and Prejudice
GBH
Made in Britain
The Jewel in the Crown
Threads
Z Cars
Caught on a Train
Upstairs Downstairs
State of Play
Roots
Band of Brothers -
Series that delivered several years of great episodes deserve more credit than equally great but shortlived series. Thats why Jim Profit, Space - Above and Beyond, Brisco County jr., Starved, Studio 60 or Action didn't made the list.
I have not seen candidates like The Wire or Carnivale. Buffy otherwise didn't made the list because I think it's a soapy crapfest. Firefly was the only good thing Whedon ever made. The reason that only shows from the last 20 years made the list: Before HBO TV wasn't really reaching for high quality. Stuff like Twin Peaks was the exception of the rule.
Drama:
1. DS9
2. The Shield
3. Deadwood
4. X-Files
5. Sopranos
6. Lost
following without order:
Babylon 5
Huff
Rescue Me
Jim Profit
24
E.R.
Picket Fences
Twin Peaks
Battlestar Galactica (2003)
Oz
TNG
Nip/Tuck
Dexter
Rome
West Wing
Six Feet Under
Miniseries:
Band of Brothers
Life on Mars
The Tripods
Riget / The Kingdom
The Sea-Wolf (1971)
V
Comedy
1. Simpsons
2. Seinfeld
3. South Park
3. Futurama
3. Scrubs
following without order:
Weeds
Entourage
The Office
Arrested Development
Curb your Enthusiasm
Married with Children
Alf
Cheers
Sports Night -
What a joke.
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for not including The Prisoner, which is hands down the great tv show ever produced.
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I agree, this list is pretty dodgy, however, I'd recommend that you yanks take this opportunity to check out some of the shows you've never seen before. Take Father Ted for instance, I don't know if its ever been shown stateside,but I wonder if it would even translate. However, to an Irish native, who was raised a roman catholic, its hilarious. Would love to know if its funny to you guys.
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ton of sci-fi in here. i might not care for the top 10. but the 11-50 slots are rather solid
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Father Ted is being Americanized. It will be the same premise, bunch of priests living on an island, though it will be off the coast of New York or something.
It won't be called Father Ted though because the creators have insisted that the characters names are changed. -
One of the best cop series ever to grace the small screen.
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No "M*A*S*H", No "I Love Lucy", No "Married with Children"... what a shitty list. Leaving out MASH alone should be grounds for having your rights to watch tv revoked.
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If you've lived here, visited here or downloaded any British series, you'd soon notice that NOTHING has been made here that could compare to the quality of gritty drama, comedy or escapist sci-fi (Buffy, Angel)in the past, say ten years!
This why the list has been over run by Only Fools and Horses ( a show that peaked in the mid-eighties but was canceled some time in the early 90's) 1960's/ 1970's sketch shows that have not grown old gracefully, But people still believe they 'have' to include them as it would seem almost blasphemous not to. We've never produced a cartoon series of any sort. As for comedy. We could never match Scrubs, Curb, Cheers, Married with Children (first three series), Police Squad or even Frasier. Instead our license fee is paying for 'Green Green Grass of home, Vicar of Dibley and My family! - and if we don't pay it, we go to prison or get fined heavily!!
God have mercy on us all. -
I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not, so I'll answer as if "What is this Muppet Show you speak of" is a legitimate question. Which is especially strange coming from you, as Jim Henson (the genius behind the Muppets)'s workshop designed all the creatures for Farscape. The Muppet Show, to be sure, was a revolutionary variety show running from late '70s to early '80s, where the jokes and musical numbers flew by, and the guest start (who ranged from Elton John to Bob Hope to Julie Andrews) interacted with the puppets as though they were real. Kermit, Fozzie, Miss Piggy are staples of global culture--at the end of its run it was seen weekly by more than 200 million viewers worldwide. Finally, it was THE quintessential "family show," and unlike some others, the episodes don't feel dated, because the comedy is universal. Whew. Sorry for everyone who already knew all that. I just can't believe I'm the only one who's brought it up.
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said they couldn't take Farscape seriously because it had Muppet's and they weren't used ironically or something.
A) Farscape has pleanty of humor and irony.
B) Muppets were awesome. Don't know why they'd think that comparison was a critism.
C) Farscape has no Muppets. I'd be cool with it if it did, it just doesn't. They have awesome scifi puppets but they aren't Muppets. It's a completely different franchise. Like The Dark Crystal. Noone calls the Dark Crystal that Muppet show. If the company's gonna try and do something different than their main brand they should get credit for that. I love Spock on star trek, but if Nimoy's doing Hamlet, I'm sure he it would seem a bit odd to call the Hamlet production that Spock show. -
which many people would seriously consider #1, this list is a joke
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Mar 29, 2008 11:14:59 AM CDT
FIREFLY IS # 14!!! WHOO HOO!!! I guess it's fitting since...
by wackybantha
...they only produced 14 episodes. IT'S THE BEST SHOW IN THE 'VERSE!!!
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It's certainly a lot better than many of the higher ranked. Pfft.
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think that Farscape is a family friendly show and that's pretty far from the truth. In fact Brian Henson, Jim Henson's son, wanted to be involved with Farscape as a starting point for the Henson company to expand outside family entertainment and add more adult fare to their credits. And yes i love that the gyuest on Muppets could interact with the Muppet and how that was expanded so the actors on Farscae could interact with the puppet character. Maing the most alien looking aliens on tv, and having them so the actors could see them and handle them like they couldn't do with CGI.
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one of the best known and best Farscape episodes is called Crackers Don't Matter. Kind of funny.
Course the series Cracker is brilliant and has nothing to do with the deep South. -
Sorry but that list lost so much legitimacy without F&G.
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Buffy is in no way the second best show of all time.
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I know it has a ton of fans, but I've never understood what the fuck was so great about Buffy. Number 1 on UGOs list? Come the fuck on.
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-Six Feet Under should have been higher
-Lost in front of the West Wing
-Freaks and Geeks need to be on the list
-Twin Peaks should be number 1
-It's always sunny in Philadelphia should at least be number 50 -
somewhere. Seriously, Leo mcKern's hilarious. Brilliant writting.
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makes every all-time best TV list published in the last decade for this reason: It fucking rules. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen AND it sometimes even made me cry like the little bitch I am.
The world can be divided into two camps: those who love Buffy and those who have not seen very much of it. You can hate shows about hot teen girls and hate movies about vampires and still love Buffy.
My pal Harry Knowles stayed away from Buffy until I mailed him a spare season-four set a few years ago, just after the show ceased production. (I think he did not consider indulging it because it starred a girl who cuddled with the despised Freddie Prinze Jr.) But when he watched season four, he promptly fell in love with Willow and Spike and Anya and the Gentlemen and Harry now loves the show.
Buffy DVDs are super-cheap at the moment. If you never got into Buffy, I HIGHLY recomment you pony up $19.99 for season four. Watch straight through until you get to the end of episode 10, "Hush." No matter how much you hate "Buffy" now, you will at that point find yourself reluctantly evangelizing and purchasing the other six seasons, and probably "Firefly" and "Angel" too. -
One of the greatest tv shows of all time. Nevermind The Prisoner, The Fugitive or The Twilight Zone. That list sucks harder than what's at #7.
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as an englishman i feel some explanations are required:
friends is so high because it is on three channels here at least 12 times a day - it has become the saturation show.
seinfeld was on tuesday at midnight here so no-one watched it - it got moved around the schedules on bbc.
the wire is on a minor cable channel which only a small minority of people can access so am amazed it is so high.
deadwood only on sky cable channel VERY late at night - no one watches it.
veronica mars has only JUST started here, and again it is on a tiny viewer cable channel.
cosby show was not a big hit here was only shown on C$ when the channel started then it disappeared.
NYPD blue it stopped broadcasting here after series nine.
you must also remember that Empire is now a shadow of what it once was.
All lists are subjective and usually xenophobic in nature.
The Simpsons is the best show of all time though. -
makes every best-TV list of the last decade because its first four seasons manifested the funniest sitcom of all time, bar none. It would be wrong to denigrate that accomplishment -- and put "The Simpsons" lower on any list --because Sam Simon ditched the show after season four. Those first four seasons were the gold standard.
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or else Epic Fail.
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Buffy would be the second best show ever if it could be somehow condensed into five seasons without losing story continuity. The "mopey/angsty Buffy" seasons could lose half their episodes without any real effect except saving those who are working their way through the series on DVD some mental exhaustion. And Angel just got plain silly in most of its run (although the Jasmine season was pretty fun).
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Where is V.I.P? This list is total shit without it!
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...until around the part after she went to college and the show took a dive into self-aware hamfisted angst/snark fanfic. But those first few seasons were terrific. I look at it a lot like X-Files where the majority of it is classic but the show and it's creative team take a wrong turn up their own asshole and it becomes almost a parody of itself for the last season or two.
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both rule.
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all the hatin's about.
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The Brits have far superior cannibis than we do...
Buffy?
Angel?
Original Trek not in top 20?
Family Guy over South Park?
Fucking "Friends"?
Maybe they mean the 50 most "Popular" when they say "best"...maybe they based it upon ratings share...
As it stands what they are saying is akin to saying Britney Spears is a better composer than was Mozart cuz more people listen to her shit...
Yes...definitly high grade cannibis is readily avaiable over there. -
Totally flawed list. Although the top ten is pretty good. How is "Scrubs" ahead of "Twin Peaks", "Veronica Mars" and ANY of the "Star Trek" shows? And I really do need to watch "Spaced"...
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Already voted Seinfeld #1. FUCK Simpsons being at the top. They jumped the shark years ago.
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CLASSIC FUCKING SHIT.
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and that's cool. Buffy & Angel were both fun and I'd put Buffy proudly on my top show list. But above Sopranos, Lost, Deadwood, The Wire? Can't say I agree with that at all.
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Yet Scrubs makes the list? Yes Scrubs is good.. but House definitely deserves to be on this list.
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The first four seasons of The West Wing are just unbelievably great.
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Actually I just couldn't resist adding my own two cents sooooo here goes... No OZ?! No Sleeper Cell, Carnivale, Sports Night or Twilight Zone?! No Moonlighting, St. Elsewhere, M*A*S*H or Larry Sanders Show?! No Columbo, Cheers, Fugitive, Abbott & Costello Show, No Homicide?! Oh and if mini-series are okay (Band of Brothers) then what about The Corner and the Kingdom. P.S. As an American it is my humble opinion the the original Office was far superior to the remake.
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As someone (me) noted earlier, you need to watch more than half an hour. You'll note that "Charmed" is NOT on the all-time best lists of Time, TV Guide, Empire etc. etc.
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Am I the only one that liked Wiseguy? Nah, can't be. And Friends? Yuck. I'm a girl and I'm probably the demographic it was aiming for but still....eew!
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...my Top 10 list looks a lot like Doc Manhattan's: #1: The Wire. The rest is debatable (I won't consider any list that doesn't have Venture Brothers or It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia featured prominently) but that number one slot is almost pure quantifiable fact.
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I wasn't exactly shamed, Xiphos. The better boxer won. You do know that Boll was a prolific amateur boxer in Germany, and that he ran 11 miles a day to train for the fights. He had about 30 pounds of muscle on me, and a personal trainer. I'm a smoker with asthma who had never been in a boxing ring who didn't train at all. Not a single sit-up or push-up, and considering that, I think I did just fine. When it became clear that Uwe was out for Harry and Quint's blood and that mine would have to suffice, you can see me signal to my 'cornerman' to throw in the towel. I did press interviews all over the world and I am a footnote in pop culture history, plus I got a free trip to Vancouver. So... in short, Fuck You, dude. I could give a shit what you think. At least I manned up and got in the ring. If we ever cross paths I will bury you. So I lost a boxing match, big deal. I'm not a boxer and I wasn't exactly supposed to win so no, I don't feel any shame at all. And Spazmo, this hamster could kick your ass every which way but up. I'd take the two of you at the same time. You're probably a couple of nerds sitting at home in your bedrooms with Tron posters adorning the walls. I'd roll up one of the Wired magazines with the Boll article in it and go Berserker on your asses. Stick to the talkback rather than dredge up year-old shit. The two of you are almost as bad as the good doctor.
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...Sledge Hammer needs to be high on that list. And Night Court too.
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By the way, my official Top 10 would be
1. The Wire 2. The Sopranos 3. Lost 4. The Wonder Years 5. Seinfeld 6. Curb Your Enthusiasm 7. Freaks and Geeks 8. Homicide: Life on the Street 9. Friends 10. The Simpsons (and it's only this low because its later years have been inconsistent and I don't watch regularly anymore) Go UNC! -
To say shows like "Friends" is better than The Wire is insulting on every level.
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If you guys are gonna fight, I would personally like to offer my front yard as the local for this titanic clash. We could sell some tickets, popcorn, beer and put it on youtube. What do you say?
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I don't care where this list was made. The fact that M.A.S.H., Mary Tyler Moore, TAXI, Cheers, Frasier, Hill Street Blues, NYPD Blue, The Cosby Show, and All in the Family were left off makes it a joke. And yeah, Buffy was an ok show, but no way it belongs on any list in the absence of these other classics. No fucking way.
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wiseguy does belong on everyone's list...as for lists, they need to be divided between comedy and drama...not fair to compare the wire to the simpsons
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It is the best show that no one watched. I thought it was great. And in repeat viewings it gets better. Also Futurama is better than Family Guy. And Veronica Mars was better than Buffy. Sorry. I adored Buffy, but when I watch now as an adult I realize how silly it could be on the most part.
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It is impossible to have much respect for a list that tops with the Simpsons. We have past the point where the number of atrociously bad seasons outweighs the number of good seasons. When you are so desperate for episode contents that you feel the need to remake your previous (Well made) episodes, then maybe it is time to give it a rest.
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Mar 29, 2008 6:41:16 PM CDT
The Wire made the list and Eastenders didn't?? Credibility Lost!
by j-dizzle
What the hell are all these American shows doing on the list????? Slimy Yankee bastards!!
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Angel? Really? Come on. And Alias? Spaced at No.10... better that Fawlty Towers? I think that's high flattery. And Buffy so high? What a joke. I guess it might be right if you're a fanboy nerd, but there are better shows out there as some have pointed out. No House. No NYPD Blue. Moonlighting?
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Six Feet Under was the best show on television, hands down. I don't acknowledge this list at all.
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And Next Gen better than ShatnerTrek - fuck that
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Hell, I'd even out MONK ahead of SIMPSONS. Plus friends beating Seinfeld is a fucking disgrace.
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For shame!
Other important things:
1. I have seen every episode of Buffy, and while I greatly like about 75% of it, I do not love it. Consider me in a third, unnamed-by-Herc camp.
MiraJeff's fight is here: http://tinyurl.com/2blkxj, and he's right: considering he's not a boxer, he did ai'ight. Still, though, jumping around like a freak in the ring is only going to wear yourself down. A few well-timed ducks and parries do the same thing without making you short of breath.
3. Re: The Office...If you read the actual article, it indicates the British version.
4. A lot of people are complaining about Prison Break, but I was in Spain last October, and found that Europe was fucking nuts over this show. There were German rap music videos dedicated to the show. Hey, the French like Jerry Lewis, don't they?
5. Xiphos, MiraJeff has owned up to a lot of crap you're giving him and is ending up the better man in a few ways. Try toning down the nasty. -
MiraJeff is the second fight.
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BEST SHOW EVER- CELEBRITY BOXING.
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What the fuck kind of list is this? How can you leave that show off the list? Terrible list made by retards who obviously don't know shit about TV shows.
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Mar 29, 2008 9:28:58 PM CDT
UM, XIPHOS IS AN ACTIVE-DUTY MARINE WHO FOUGHT THE TALIBAN
by bringingsexyback
He'd fuck Uwe Boll's shit up in two seconds, so I don't think you wanna mess with the Xi.
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Just like this list.
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Mar 29, 2008 9:44:29 PM CDT
ALSO XIPHOS KNOWS GUN KATA HE'LL SHRED YOU LIKE RAMBO
by bringingsexyback
Xiphos: "Sir, do we get to win this time?"
Colonel: "With your gun kata, we'll rule the world, son." -
Mar 29, 2008 9:47:47 PM CDT
THIS LIST IS THE MOST FUCKING SHAMEFUL LIST EVER MADE
by bringingsexyback
Where's Little House on the Prairie, MASH and Happy Days? Whoever wrote this fucking list is totally brain dead.
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placed Deadwood at 31?Johnny...mind the door.Dan...fetch my fuckin' blade.
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Bill Bixby died for your sins!!!
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How about this list will make it to the "all-time crappy lists ever" list.
Were´s Carnivale and Lars von Triers: Riget....!?
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Come on! Where is M*A*S*H?? Why is Dexter even there, just because he kills people?? How come Friday Night Lights is not there, being an excellent show? No BATS? Justice League?
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There is no Simpsons, Family Guy, Flintstones, Jetsons, All in the Family, Raymond, King of Queens or any any of the countless sitcoms where the husband is a buffoon. The most influential comedy ever hands down. And it only lasted 39 episodes.
That being said "People are being WAYY too harsh" by Desmondo above is the best explanation for this list. -
After that it falls apart. Regardless of it's decline in quality , the Simpsons was still the best show on TV until 1998 and regardless of the dips (OK plummets) it may have taken since then, it is still the best TV show ever based solely on its salad days. And Buffy rules.
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...to the UK. It's a pretty got-dang American type show. This could be yet another explanation for why M*A*S*H is nowhere to be found.
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and those typically get no love.
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groundbreaking shows to this makes one thing clear: a list of 50 isn't enough.
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isn't Season 4 considered the "phantom menace" of the buffy seasons? I remember back when it was still on (because that was when people would talk about buffy constantly), everyone would say 4 was the worse season (btw, both season 4 and episode one are my favorites in their respective franchise; I also enjoyed Enterprise). Also, Scrubs at #19 and no House? bullshit.
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...writes boring reviews, has bland, bandwagon taste in movies, and got his ass publicly kicked by Dr. Uwe Boll... I think arranging a date to kick his ass, much less calling him out Humongous-style in every talkback for being a well-documented schmuck, is laying on the overkill a little thick. It'd be like beating up High Pitch Eric or that kid from Trekkies. Though I guess he is kinda asking for it up there.
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Arrested Development #2
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Your list is WORTHLESS.
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Herc, it sounds like you're just trying to provoke shit for the talkbacks. Season four was utter crap bar the one episode you mentioned by name. And as for your two types of people - what about those of us who loved Buffy for the first three seasons and decided it was dead by the end of season four?
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Title didn't match the question on the poll. Which doesn't excuse it. But then - most voters are clearly kids who never heard of TV till the last few years. Given that proviso, The Wire's showing is astonishing.
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Why the fuck was this list of the most popular shows of internet Empire voters of an insignificant little country even posted here for fucks sake. And all this where is 'Show that never got out of America #67, Show that never got out of America #400, I Love Lucy' etc shit: please end it. This thread was created by Herc for the sole purpose of a trans-Atlantic flame war, we saved you Americans in WW2, you should be grateful. Oh, wait a minute...
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I think a lot of the shit that people say against Buffy season 4 is because people couldn`t get used to no Angel or Cordy , the fact that they brought in Captain Charisma Riley Finn didn`t help either. But when you watch the episodes , they include some of the best ....`Harsh Light of Day`, `A New Man`, `Restless`, `Superstar`, `Primevil` and of course `Hush`. Now watch those episodes and then say season 4 was shit, I think you`ll find it wasn`t!
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Supernatural is top 10 for sure. And this list is a joke. Incredible Hulk, Profit, American Gothic, A-Team, 21 Jump Street are definitely top 50 and they are not in this list ?
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Our Friends In The North? State Of Play? Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy? Pride & Prejudice? Bridehead Revisited? I Claudius? I can't believe they left out The Thick Of It? What about Brass Eye? How about The Prisoner? Britain has made some remarkable tv over the years...it's a shame very little of it is covered. Maybe thats the fault of broadcasters not showing stuff again, even in the days of ITV4 and the gazillion BBC channels.
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What a colossal joke. Friends at 7 is a horrendous choice, and no Andy Griffith Show immediately tabs this list as completely irrelevant.
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...ever make it big in the UK? People, keep filtering your thoughts.
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Come on, people!
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The Twilight Zone should easily be in the top 3, if not the number 1 and I don't see it ANYWHERE on this list. WTF! Other than that, although of course the list is dreadfully ordered and includes numerous dreadful shows, I can't complain too much because all my other choices are at least on the list. But my order: 1. The Twilight Zone 2. Babylon 5, 3. Six Feet Under, 4. Battlestar Galactica (of course the recent one), 5. Star Trek: TNG, 6. Star Trek, 7. Buffy, 8. The Simpsons, 9. The Wonder Years, 10. Seinfeld, 11. South Park
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This one is pretty ridiculous, how did SEX AND THE CITY even make EMPIRES list?
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The absence of M*A*S*H and presence of Spaced on this one proved it. Best of all time? Really???????
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Griffith is in my top three sitcoms of all time - along with All In The Family and of course, I Love Lucy. This lost has none of them! What a joke. This is so full of contemporary bullshit, more than half of these 'classics' will barely be remembered in 20 years. Why didn't they just say best in the last 20 years, since that's all they seem to care about.
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The answer to that is no. I struggle to think of an American show not on that list (maybe Cheers, The A-Team or House) thats big. The only American show big here not on the list is MASH. Nowadays the next 'Big American show' is held in quite high esteem here. And the channels over here are to fucking lazy to make their own shows when they can just buy the rights to a big American show and get 23 eppisodes and a constant stream of series'. Oh and I say it again out of sheer fucking disgust. This is a British list, so where the fuck is The Boys From the Blackstuff. Or for that matter any classic gritty drama, i'd even take Shameless for fucks sake. Hooray for Cracker anyway.
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I wanna say again, Spaced is really a cult show over here. Its probably bigger in America than here (like the Prisoner). You can tell from its presence that its an internet poll. Oh and did anyone ever see any of Empire's 100 greatest films lists? I think Donnie Darko was in the top 20. 'Nuff said.
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so i guess all time began 15 years ago?
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I love firefly but no way does it belong at 14. It ran for half a season. It didn't even have a proper ending. And Heroes at 15 with Deadwood beyond 30 is just insanity. How they managed to put Spaced at 10 is unbelievable. How can you be so right about Spaced and so wrong about Heroes...GAH!
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...where the fuck is Ab/Fab. Jesus titty-fucking Christ! There isn't 3 better fleshed out characters in comedy than Eddy, Patsy, and Saffy. bbl gotta go jerk it to Julia.
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Is the single greatest TV show of all time. Doesn't suprise me that those fucks at Empire did't know that, since none of them were born before 1991.
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This is the best list ever, that is if TV was invented 20 years ago and if there were only 50 shows ever made in that time. Come on there isn't a show in this list older than 20 years at the latest, save Star Trek.
Some of these shows didn't even last a full season, save 6 episodes. And you're going to tell me that Twilight Zone, Get Smart and Monty Phyton doesn't beat Dexter, Band of Brothers (which a mini series not at TV show), Angel. And you can't leave off All in the Familiy which was groundbreaking at the time. Sanford and Son?
Then there are shows that have endured for over 50 years, Andy Griffith, I Love Lucy, Leave it to Beaver. You put these shows againt some on the list, and more people will know them, and most people will say huh, what to about half of the shows on that list.
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The show is also known as SERGEANT BILKO (1955-1959). I heard this classic series was quite popular in Britain (writers included the likes of Neil Simon, Leonard Stern, Nat Hiken, et al). The hilarity is still very much intact. And where's TAXI? And why are the "BEST OF" shows all relatively recent? It appears the Spike Channel clipped this thing together.
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The series that gave the world Timothy Spall? For that alone it deserves commendation. And as the writer above notes, The Boys From The Blackstuff or GBH or The Singing Detective...with the inclusion of Band Of Brothers, it evidently means serials/mini-series are allowed. The fact that this is a British list annoys me because so much of the stuff is recent and so much of it is US leaning which is no bad thing but it seems to ignore so much good stuff made in this country. It's Empire so its populist but still, there's so much more that could have been included.
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which is no question, a total piece of shit magazine. But that list is a typical internet poll. And as we all are all too aware the 'net is largely populated by complete fucktards. The average talkback thread on here should prove that point :D Which is (I guess) a delicious irony, given some of the comments in this thread :D
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Keep me posted...
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in no particular order:
arrested development
seinfeld
curb your enthusiasm
the office (uk)
the larry sanders show
24
lost
buck rogers
buffy the vampire slayer
magnum pi -
south park
the simpsons
the wire
the shield
the colbert report
friday night lights
cheers
mash
simon and simon
jake and the fatman -
Jake and the Fatman?!
GTFOOH!
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Firstly Empire is the greatest movie magazine in the world bar none. How many of you lot have actually read the magazine. Secondly this is an internet poll for a British magazine. Thus the list will represent contemporary shows and those that made it so to speak in the UK. No one is claiming this list is definitive. So settle down and stop crying that your favourite show did not make the list. I think in general for shows in the last 15 years, the list is not too bad, perhaps the order needs some work. Crikey, some of you people overreact - OH MY GOD, IT'S THE WORST LIST EVER!! It's like listening to comic book guy in the Simpsons - geez. PS. Buffy is great tv and was single handedly along with Dawson's creek, although the latter is not to my taste, responsible for reviving teen/youth-oriented TV. Some of you lot seem incapable of recognising that just because you don't like a show that doesn't mean you can deny its cultural importance. Yes, I'm talking about Sex and the City for example. Sure it's not a geek show but think about how different and yes brave this was when it first started. Swearing, middle-aged stars, flagrant sex scenes. Plus it has its fans. But my top seven at present in no order are Buffy, 24, Angel, The Shield, X-files, Lost, JLU. Honourable mentions - prison break s1, profiler season 1 and 2, moonlighting, farscape, firefly, battlestar galactica(new version), samurai jack.
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wow, a lot of Trek in there. awesome
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Yes...must buy Empire Magazine...
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Mar 30, 2008 8:28:53 PM CDT
"the American Office has far exceeded the quality of the origina
by chook chutney
'The Office' Rant:
As an American, I'm embarrassed every time someone claims that the uninspired knockoff exceeds the original.
I'll admit that the quality has vastly improved since season one, and it's still funnier than 90% of American television today, but it'll never hold a candle to the depth, pathos, and humanism of the original series.
Also, did anyone see the episode where Michael Scott drove his car into a lake because he thought the navigation system told him to take a right? Either he's borderline retarded or the shows writing staff is.
And another thing: Heroes is a piece of shit. Fuck the people who think it's the best thing since handjobs. My dick could write a better show. -
What's wrong with classic envelope pushing shows?
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1. Southpark - Fuck the Simpsons.
2. Babylon 5 - Better actors and story than any Star Trek POS.
3. Band of Brothers - Best War series EVER!
4. Star Gate SG-1
5. Cheers
6. Seinfield
7. Highlander - there can be only one bitches!
8. Family guy - once again, Fuck the Simpsons!
9. American Chopper - OCC!
10. Star Gate - Atlantis: it would be higher but i hate Tayla. -
These are some self-hatin' Brits.
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List=Shite.
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Or for that matter "Leave it to Bloody Beaver"... Not all US sit-coms crossed the pond, although I'd say most culturally informed/geek types would at least be aware of them. Some shows like the Phil Silvers show, Bewitched and Mr Ed were (and are) screened in the UK but are not as high profile. Other shows such as Sanford and Son, All in the Family etc are BASED on old British shows...
That said however, I agree with the otherwise shit choice of shows AND would like to say that there are as many British classics missing as there are US ones.
This is a list by 12 year olds and typical Empire mainstream wanna-be hipsters; Friends, Simpsons at number 1, Sex & the City AT ALL... It's almost like they've just been down to Zavvi or HMV, checked which shows are available in boxed sets and randomly listed 50. I'm very surprised this isn't appearing in the magazine with a sponsorship deal like they always seem to fix for "the top 10 ever mafia movies" or whatever.
Unforgivable not to include many of the classic US shows people here have mentioned. Also unforgivable to omit cleverer comedy like The Day Today and Brasseye (was Partridge in there?).
One other thing though, fuck you to everyone bringing up Benny fucking Hill or Are You Being Served. Whilst I'm aware these shows are vaunted as enduring British classics in the states(!)the only sad cunts that watch them over here are pensioners and people with a piss poor sense of humour. Christ... It's as accurate as Limeys benchmarking your televisual taste against US soap operas and Brit-com remakes... -
And these folks call themselves British?!? I'm surprised Python and Dr. Who even made the list.
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Best British TV Show Ever.
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with several "ties" are.....
20. The Edge of Night & Santa Barbara
19. Dallas
18. Mary Tyler Moore & The Carol Burnett Show
17. Law & Order
16. The Simspons
15. Arrested Development
14. The Cosby Show
13. Hill Street Blues
12. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
11. SportsNight
10. The Prisoner
9. Star Trek
8. The Wire
7. The West Wing
6. 24
5. I Love Lucy
4. Buffy The Vampire Slayer
3. All in the Family
2. Lost
1. St. Elsewhere -
It is assured a place on the list. The only question remains where it will land upon its completion.
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that there are several errors in character names and other niggling details within the countdown summaries. Either the guys writing the copy have no clue what they're talking about or this whole thing was very lazily put together... Probably both. If you want a very sensible, well-informed and amusing UK critic's assessment of TV from the US and the UK, from the 50s to the present day, you can do a lot worse than look up Charlie Brooker on Google (or the full episodes of Screenwipe on YouTube). I'm no Empire cheerleader, but the current Indy issue is damn fucking fine, and has 30+ pages of exclusive stories and interviews with everyone connected to KOTCS.
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10. North & Sputh
9. JAmes Michenier's "Space"
8. Arthut Hailey's "Wheels"
7. The Winds of War
6. Rich Man, Poor Man
5. Fortunate Son
4. Lonesome Dove
3. The House of Cards Trilogy
2. I, Claudius
1. Roots -
No Bob Newhart? NO Rockford Files?
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But it wasn't the best.
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...put together by people with a very shallow knowledge of TV and an extremely short attention span/memory regarding TV. I get the impression that a hell of a lot of people at Empire these days are in their early 20s. Which is cool, but if you're writing for one of the largest movie magazines in the world, you should at least have slightly more pop-cultural awareness than a recent universty graduate who blinkeredly drank cheap lager and watched nothing but current mainstream Sci Fi, or drank chardonnay and watched Friends/Sex in the City/Allie McBeal for the last 3 years...
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Mar 30, 2008 10:19:32 PM CDT
Twilight Zone, The Fugitive, The Honeymooners, The Prisoner all
by starwarsredux
...oh, but none of that really matters as long as they put "Buffy" so close to the top, doesn't it?
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But it isn't over yet. The story isn't complete. How can it be the on a list?
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Father Ted is way better than Monty Python.
10. Father Ted
9. Mr. Show
8. Deadwood
7. Arrested Development
6. The Twilight Zone
5. Twin Peaks
4. Seinfield
3. The Sopranos
2. The Simpsons
1. The Wire -
...I've been acting on this board, I will say this about the list: no "Prime Suspect"? It's British, popular in Britain and well-respected in Britain, which is something I cannot say for all of the talkbackers who are ignoring the facts of who put this list together and what kind of television they receive.
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to be the froth mouthed lunatics, but it's th people who hate Bufy and Whedon that are doing all the hyperboly: Worst ever, everyone associated should die kind of crap. Just seemed intersting to me.
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... generally suck. Your top 50 may not be MY top 50.
Besides, Twin Peaks is only at #24? Someone's been spiking the cherry pie. -
Best Sitcom in the last 5 Years.
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"King of Queens" may well be the best sitcom in the last 5 years... But that ain't sayin' much.
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Buffy is at SECOND?
Friends wins over SEINFELD?
I know that it's impossible to agree with anything regarding lists, but c'mon!
I'm happy they at least remembered Quantum Leap. -
....any best list that doesn't have The Wire at the top (or at least in the top 3) is illegimate, period.
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Who came up with this list? A 12-year-old girl?
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. . . and I'm sorry, but I'm not getting a "BEST. SERIES. EVER!" vibe from this show. So far it's just a more drab version of "The Shield" or a more gritty version of "Law & Order." It's addictive - I'll give it that. But "best show" ever? I don't think so. I'm not even ready to put it in the Top 10 yet.
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No, Herc didn't write the list.
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Friends, West Wing and Heroes all better than ER ? Horseshit. ER might be tired and old, but the old dog has had her day in the sun. Show some respect. Heroes had one good season (so far), and Friends was about as funny as a fungal infection on my nutsack.
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Hhahaha. Just noticed that. Those Brits - they crack me up. No wonder they couldn't keep their empire together. Herc - are you sure you didn't transpose certain shows in the list based on your personal tastes ? (ie, the tastes of a 12 year old ... with a cooter)
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there is no clear distinction, or clear criteria for how these shows are ranked. Is it greatness (popularity, how prolific it is, influence on other shows) or just quality. Clearly the empire list is not one based purely on quality. And give the Mirajeff Boll bout a rest.
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...is "King of Queens" a hit in the UK? Is it even shown there?
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Should be in at least the top 10 on that list.. I was consistently in the top 10 in the ratings and was SYNDICATED! I belive that for awhile the Picard/Borg episode was one of the top 10 episodes with the highest ratings. It started the whole syndicated sci-fi/adventure movement which many of the shows on this list owe their existence to. Plus it just plain fucking-rocked. Heroes is too high on that list, one season it too early to tell of how high a pedestal we should place it on. Plus, S2 kinda blew. The Simpsons is exactly where it should be.
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Geez, people. There is a massive difference. What do you people expect if you ask your average twenty year old to name his top 5 favourite repeat NOT best shows of all time. You lot are displaying some of worst aspects of fanboyism. Sigh, I despair.
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These shows began to be shown about seven years too late and are on arly in the morning at around 8.30am on Channel 4. These shows are seen as very lowbrow, lowest common denominator and typically American and have never really appealed to British audiences. I'm afraid I have to agree with that assessment although i appreciate that there are many who would disagree. The British Office is superior to the American, mainly because Steve Carrell loses a lot of the self-deluded pomposity Gervais does so well. Timeslot didn't help either but there is no interest. American comedies aside from Friends, Frasier and Scrubs in the last ten years do not tend to cross over into the mainstream here in the UK. It's just the way it is.
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Best laugh I've had in a month. If I worked at EMPIRE, I'd think long and hard before agreeing to do another one of these.
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You're such a dick. Self-satisfied twat? Yes, that's it. You sound like such a fucking snob. TKOQ is truly one of the funniest sitcoms of the last decade - much funnier than Raymond, or Frasier, or Scrubs. Amd I have seen many Brits posting on IMDB about how much they love it - go check for yourself - so maaaaaybe you shouldn't speak for the entire United Kingdom, huh? "That's just the way it is". Oh shut the fuck up. You pompous piece of shit...
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Sheesh. He's describing a fact about how certain shows are shown in the UK—and what shows are even aired—in a place with a different sense of humor. A little overly sensitive there, Rebeck?
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generation. What do you expect from a list compiled by geeks and people int heir early-20s? So it's full of sci-fi and fluff like Friends. Shows like the Wire and 24 are on the DVD shelf of every too cool for school twat in the UK which pretty much accounts for half of Empire's readership. Shows like Larry Sanders and Seinfeld are great but they were shown at midnight and never had a set day, the BBC would just throw them round the schedules or use them to fill gaps when the snooker ran too late. My favourite show, Arrested Development, never stood a chance because of similar scheduling. The 3rd series still hasn't aired and I had to grab it by other means just to see it. And as other posters have said, Friends is shown at least 8-10 times a day here (no exaggeration, when they show the final ever episode it just starts again the next day from Series 1 and goes on a constant cycle). It's a popular show and these lists are always about popularity rather than the level of devotion from a cult following.
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Calm down, mate. What is your problem? Why the insults? Are we not all adults on this board? What I said is simply my feeling and the general perception here in the UK. Oh and don't quote IMDB to me because as we all know, internet polls are not representative of the gen pop. Why don't you check the ratings or ask any brit on the street what the king of queens, sorry "TKOQ" is and you will get a blank stare. Oh better yet, why don't you try living in the UK as I do before you denounce me. Lastly, what you call snobbery, I call good taste. I find it too lowbrow and too dumb, even compared to Friends and Scrubs which I do find funny, the latter more so though. Personal favourite American comedy, Seinfeld. Again that show never took off here. But you clearly enjoy King of Queens so more power to ya! Intelligent arguments are fair enough but calling me a "dick" and a "piece of shit" makes you look like you a simpleton with a fairly stunted vocabulary. I'm sure you are better than that, right?
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is on British tv everyday, atleast a few times a day. Infact, next to Simpsons, I would say they are two of the most televised sitcoms in the Britain, followed by scrubs, which seems to be on all the time as well. The reason King of Queens did not make the list is it does not deserve a place on the list. That one could genuinely believe the King of Queens is comparable to other elite comedies is madness. Considering the list is made by brits, I am sincerely surprised Alan Partridge is not on the list.
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I agree with you re: King of Queens. Just wanted to point out, and take no offense, that those two shows are heavily repeated on cable NOT on terrestrial TV. King of Queens and Raymond are never shown to my knowledge, out of their early morning slots on Channel 4. Back to back episodes on occasion but I think this is more a case of timeslot filling and burning through a back-catalogue than ratings-driven demand.
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The insults were because of the general self-important arrogance of your statements. Saying that most Brits don't know aboutTKOQ (Sorry...The...King...Of...Queens) is one thing and fine - saying it is "typical American lowbrow, lowest common denominator" TV is showing your own ridiculous bias and snobbery. Period. Which is what sure makes you SOUND like a dick. I'm a college educated man who gets paid to write fiction for a living, so yes, I can say it in a more genteel, sophisticated way, but the word "dick" really cuts through the red tape and gets the job done. There's the right tool for every job and you sir are that tool. I'm a pretty smart well-read person and I enjoy films and TV from countries all over the world, so imagine my surprise when I hear that my enjoyment of TKOQ derives from the fact that as an American I am genetically inferior to you in my humor. (How soon they forget old Benny Hill, genius of dry subtlety - and boobs) I suppose you also think we don't understand irony. While you do not seem to get the "irony" that you disparage Americans as a whole at the same time you enjoy Seinfeld, which was an enormous hit here. Which is it? Are we all idiots or is that just the cliche you throw out when you want to feel better about yourself? You are the one who's doing the lazy thinking, sir, not me. I doubt you've even WATCHED TKOQ for longer than say five minutes anyway. It is a clever show and not slapstick or lowbrow in any way. You're welcome to your own tastes, but just because you come on here and declare something like you were the final word on every subject doesn't mean I have to take it as fact. I don't think you speak for all Brits, as I don't speak for all Yanks. What if I were to assume you had really bad teeth and got pissed until you puke at a pub every night? Everyone knows that's what you guys are like... Don't be mad at me, that's just the way it is. Mate.
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Go back and read his original post, if that's not the definition of dripping with disdain and condescension I don't know what is. He's not just reporting the facts, he's doing his best to tell us how superior his taste is to those heathen savages in the colonies. That's why I thought...hmm, could be he's a bit of dick, ol' JT. In fact, ask any American and they'll tell you JTStyler is an egomaniacal snob with his head up his ass. What's the problem? I'm just telling you the way it is. Geez guys, calm down.
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1. Read Nabster's point in the previous post about King of Queens. Let me paraphrase - it's rubbish.
2. You clearly have an inferiority complex because you are acting like I have insulted your American blood. My line is that it is I quote "lowbrow, lowest common denominator and typically American." That is not the same as saying all Americans are lowbrow. Not all Americans like Adam Sandler movies for example. The show is typically American but even here in the UK, you will find a handful who find it amusing. And I would say a similar thing about Eastenders - ie. it's typically English in a disparaging manner. Seinfeld is one of the most un-typically American sitcoms ever and if you had ever heard Larry David's discussion with Gervais, you will see that his influences are very British. But I love a lot of mainstream American shows regardless of influence. Why do some of you Americans think everyone hates you? We don't. There's a lot to like and a lot to dislike like every country in the world
3. I don't speak for the UK, check the ratings. It's not my fault your favourite show is not worth spit here.
4. That last line about teeth and getting pissed - it's partly true so no, I don't get offended. I am not a child.
5. Let me be typically non-British for you - you're the asshole. A tosspot who can not speak like the college-educated man he claims to be. You call it cutting through the shit, I call it being an under-educated, overly sensitive and defensive little man. How's that for stooping to your level? Do you understand me now? -
Of your utter and complete Dickdom. You have found your true voice. All that very civilized and condescending talk was just a prelude to your true personality. Since when is it non-British to be an asshole? You reveal yourself with every new (lame) response. And Larry David is an American, I hate to break it to you, so I guess you're just going to have to ascribe the genius of Seinfeld or Curb Your Enthusiasm (got that yet, or still seven years behind? Schmuck) to him and not his influences. I know that must kill you. Because anything good is atypical of America and all the bad is typical. If anyone has an inferiority complex it's you - why else would you have such a need to feel superior?? I never said our shows are better than yours, or our sense of humor - that's all you, buddy. I don't think you hate us, I just think you hold onto some ridiculous idea that you are more sophisticated than us by your British birth and that it's a desperate attempt on your part to feel superior to someone, anyone. I HATE Adam Sandler movies...so am I typical or atypical now? Does that confuse your world view? YOU are the one making all these absurd generalizations about whole entire populations - I never brought all your countrymen into it, except to parody a cliche. I'm not calling out your country, just you. You're the dick.
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READ my post, can you manage that? Look at my top 5, they're all American. What does that tell you about my feelings about America? But my feelings about majority of American comedies are quite different. Btw I have not generalised anybody. Did you even read my post? Well, it is clear you can barely read. I'm gonna be the grown-up and leave this argument because you've clearly got a chip on your shoulder about being American. Don't feel small, you're a great people although you sir are far from a shining example. I don't think I'm better than anyone, American or otherwise. Maybe just you. I'll say this one last time and unlike you I won't feel the need to swear and curse like a raving loon. King of Queens is lowbrow. It is too typically American for many tastes, mine included. Oh wait, i've changed my mind, it's so obvious. You win, you're right, you're the best, the greatest of all time. King of Queens should be crowned the greatest show of all time. That's called sarcasm. I do hope you can understand that.
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I love the little man from the little island telling me not to feel small. Again, I'm not the one who talks about what is and isn't typically British. Why? Because, unlike you, I'm smart enough to know you can't stereotype any nation or people. I love lots of British shows, some of which are my favorites of all time: Monty Python's Flying Circus, The Royle Family (Lowbrow? Highbrow? Hard to keep track of where the brow should go, isn't it?), People Like Us, Bob & Margaret, Jonathan Creek. I wouldn't claim to know what typical is from your country, but you clearly are the expert on all things on both sides of the pond. Which clearly means that you rarely leave your house. And yes, I'm really bothered by my own American-ness, that's what this is all about. Us Yanks are known for our great shame. I give up, mate. You are completely oblivious to your own obnoxious snobbery and general overall assholianism. I'll leave it at that. No wait... I don't get those last couple lines of your post? What is this sar-cas-m you speak of? It's all too brilliantly intellectual for me to follow. You're such a grown-up.
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Thank you for that. Now I feel better because, American or British, your taste is obviously in your mouth.
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..."Bob & Margaret" was Canadian.)
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Seriously. I'm not kidding, and I'm not playing sides as far as opinion goes. Read the entries slowly and with no bias, and you'll see that. There's no point getting riled up.
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...you have been getting on these people for their impression of your taste in television, and yet you do the same thing to JT's list, one that is full of shows many educated and reasonable people like. Just as you are entitled to your love of King of Queens, he is entitled to his love of 24, The Shield, Lost and X-Files. Is this making sense?
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First of all, I believe Bob & Margaret started out being made in England and only moved to Canada in it's third year. Check it out, but shhh, don't tell anyone. Secondly, I consider it an insult when someone generalizes about "typical American" fare and calls it "lowbrow, lowest common denominator". That means stupid. I don't know how else to take that. I think you're just so used to it, because it's done over and over again, especially on these talkbacks. So many Brits come on here and throw that shit around casually and when we don't say anything in response it is tantamount to just accepting it as fact and agreeing with them. Well, I won't do that. If someone came on here and generalized about Blacks or Gays, I would react the same way. I don't care if someone has problems with political aspects of our country - our current president is a disaster, so that's to be expected - but I'm not going to nod my head when Brits or anyone else tries to hold themselves above us and look down their nose at us culturally. Sorry. It's just bullshit. And honestly, I don't think YOU'RE reading those posts right. Lastly, I didn't make that snarky comment until after he had given me his snobbery with both barrels. It's true I don't like any of those shows (X-Files was not bad), but I realize they were and are popular, so normally, no, I wouldn't criticize his choices. But none of them are what I would consider exactly high-brow either, so I just think it's funny that he's our big arbiter of good taste and intellectual substance. Give me a break. He like the latest hip flashy shows like every other fanboy - real daring stuff. He's entitled to like whatever he wants same as all of us, but from his posts, he just sounds like a pompous ass. And I just wanted to call him on it. The End.
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It was a collaboration between the countries, though, so we're both right. Sorry for the (slight) mix-up, but it didn't "move" anywhere. Its original short was Canadian. The characters moved to Canada in its third season, yes, but I'm talking about who makes the show.
As for the shows, the only ones he said were lowbrow were "King of Queens" and "Raymond." I can get behind that description for both of them. ("King of Queens," however, knew its lowbrow roots, being a spin-off of "Raymond," and played with those expectations, making it better than normal and finally settling into its own groove.)
It's bedtime now, but tomorrow, if I have time, I'm going to try an experiment with this talkback, because I still think you are severely overreacting to trivial matters. I think others would agree with me.
But never, ever, did he shit on the United States. Take a really deep breath and look it over as if you were a neutral party. Is this possible? -
And you're still not getting what I'm saying. I don't object to him not liking one show, I object to him lumping all (or %95) of American entertainment product into lowbrow and lowest-common denominator. How many different ways can I explain it to you? Do you not understand what that is (not so) thinly-veiled code for? The US, unlike MY country, is full of monosyllabic cretins who enjoy idiotic entertainment that we over here are too smart to like. LOL. What don't you get? I've never accused him of anything but that. I never said he hated our country. In fact, the beautiful irony of all this is that he's such a hypocrite he both believes we produce inferior entertainment (unless "influenced" by the British) but he also lists our shows in his top five of all time. He somehow divorces the one thought from the other. The great shows are an EXCEPTION to the rule of our vast mediocrity. Do you understand what I'm saying? He eats up a lot of our stuff, but at the same time, wants the right to feel superior to our great unwashed public. Seinfeld is the best example of all. He loves it, but claims it's "untypical" of American shows. This is how he explains that it works for him. However, Seinfed was an enormous hit in the States. So, wait...how can the US be so typically lowbrow if the majority of Americans totally embraced and "got" this ground-breaking comedy? Oops. It's called a lapse in logic. You don't see the contradiction there? Maybe you should take a deep breath and really read my posts and what I'M saying before you write me off as some paranoid red-stater. (I'm a proud Liberal and a Clinton Democrat - soon to be an Obama Democrat) I think you would be shocked, given an ounce of perception, how many readers of those JT posts would come to the same conclusion I did. But go ahead do your experiment, whatever that is. My point to you is that you accept this subtle predjudice because...what, you're an anglophile? So am I. But that doesn't mean I like to be treated with casual disdain. Like I said, it's just such a common thing around here for a Brit to offhandedly call us all idiots, that you've apparently come to like it or agree. Well, not me. I may have gotten a little more fired up than I needed to or resorted to name-calling much too early, but JT's subsequent posts only confirmed for me that my instincts were correct. He may be 22, in which case he can be forgiven some arrogance. But I know snobbery when I hear or read it, so... Whatever, dude. If you don't agree, fine - if you hate The King Of Queens, good for you. I don't care. I just get tired of this constant refrain coming from some Brit talkbackers...it gets old. Americans are ignorant for voting for George Bush, but their taste in entertainment is as, if not more, sophisticated than any audience in the world and this myth of us being essentially idiot savants - creating the world's biggest entertainment but also being crude and crass - is total, excuse the Americanism, bullshit. Now...do me a favor and calmly read this post over before responding. Make sure you are reading it without bias, as a neutral party. Is this possible? Goodnight.
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Yes, I wasn't talking about the cartoon characters moving, I was referring to the belief that because they were taking Canadian money they had to set it there. I don't know which came first, but I still consider it a British product. And a great show.
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Furthermore, the origin of B&M is less important I think than the fact that you tried to take what you thought was a factual error on my part and insinuate that it invalidated everything else I was saying. Or were you just trying to be helpful?
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What is your problem? Is everything a fight? Now it's time for my hike and then some script revisions. (Yes, more than one of us is "paid to write fiction.")
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...I agree that for the US it was a flash in the pan of a certain kind of entertainment (not high-brow or low-brow, but mean and absurdist) that hasn't really been matched by any other network show since.
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Where did you get that?
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Because I haven't been mean to you yet, but each of your posts to me have been progressively venomous. Will anything I say make a difference? (And no, this isn't condescension, but an actual valid question.) Or is this going to keep going back-and-forth? Hell, I'm defending somebody else, someone I've never met, for no real reason other than I believe you've taken negative comments JT has said about two shows (yes, the two in his original post) and bastardized his comments into a veiled attack on American taste. I'd rather not talk to a bully--and believe me, you've become far more vitriolic than JT--and would prefer to engage in a conversation, not a one-sided fight.
I'm just trying to keep the peace here, brother. -
...completely incorrectly. He was saying there are many different kinds of tastes in the U.S. (and, by proxy, the U.K.) and that one or two pieces of entertainment DO NOT represent an entire country.
Now, holy crap, I definitely need to begin my hike. -
If that's what he was saying, that there is a multitude of tastes in the US, then what is "typically American"? You just seem to keep avoiding his use of that phrase, which I believe speaks for itself. But that's fine. I don't think I was venomous in my last long post...I was just trying to get you to respond to the specific points I was making, but I don't see that happening. I wasn't talking about Seinfeld, I was talking about JT's take on it - so I don't know what you're saying there. And please, don't be disingenuous, you've been plenty snarky and sneering yourself. We obviously see this differently, enough said. No problem. Have a nice life.
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I'm off to the ballgame in 10, but he said that it was "SEEN" as typically American. Not that it was. Only after you insulted him did he kind of lose his shit, and as did you. Have you ever lived in Europe? There is a vague and general misconception of what is "typically American," and in some cases it's right and in other cases it's wrong. Just like anything else. It's a gray world we live in, which is something you were getting at. We agree on this.
And his take on "Seinfeld" was that it was untypical (which it is) and that Larry David's comic sensibility is atypical (which it is.)
And snarky? I have been no such thing. I want to keep discussing this in order to make sure you don't go flying off the handle when anyone even remotely comes close to maybe saying something you can construe as anti-American, but from your third-to-last sentence, it doesn't seem like this is feasible. That's not snarky. That's just me getting tired.
And when did I say you were red-stater again? Nope, that's not sneering. I am actually curious as to the answer, as with everything I've already said.
I have responded to your posts point-by-point, so I don't think the condescending insults are necessary (i.e. "but I don't see that happening"). Please understand that. -
Your words are appreciated. You've summed up exactly what I was saying. Cheers.
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Not really. But if you see me up against another person such as Rebeck later on in the depths of AICN, and you agree with me, don't be a stranger.
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See you around, Len.
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I've noticed a couple of morons saying that friends ranked over Seinfeld because it's on every channel and claiming Seinfeld never got a fair chance...well, have you ever thought that:
1-if friends is on every channel it should be ranked higher than buffy?
2-if it was about how many times the show is on T.V why the hell Seinfeld is at 11? if the timeslot was inconvinient and it was never well-distributed while frasier: one of the most popular shows in the U.K is behind Seinfeld in 20 slots?
this list isn't about the number of channels the show was on..so stop whinning
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