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Moriarty’s One Thing I Love Today! HBO’s JOHN FROM CINCINNATI!
Hey, everyone. “Moriarty” here.
David Milch should get back in the game.
I loved DEADWOOD. Absolutely adored every cocksucking second of it. I loved the characters, the tone, the look, the direction, the sense of time and place. And when HBO and/or David Milch pulled the plug (I’ve read differing accounts of what went down) a year before the story should have ended, it felt like a betrayal, and as a result, I refused to tune in to Milch’s follow-up series, JOHN OF CINCINNATI. I didn’t read about it. I didn’t watch it. I ignored it completely out of spite.
And now that it’s wrapped up, never to return, I’m cursing myself for being such a knee-jerk reactionary, because it turns out I missed a really strange and beautiful season of television, one of the more adventurous series to appear on HBO in recent memory. In some ways, it plays as a reaction to DEADWOOD, a sort of inverted reinvention of some of the same types of dynamics, a way for Milch to play out some of the same impulses, but it’s also much more experimental that DEADWOOD ever was.
The good news is that you can watch this box set and see that, although it definitely suggests ongoing relationships that might occur after these events, there is a complete story told, and in a way, I don’t want any more answers than we’re offered here. More answers might diffuse some of what I think works so well, and in this case, I think maybe that sense of wondering what comes next is sort of the point of the thing.
I don’t think Milch is particularly subtle about what he’s doing in the show. The question is what he hopes to say with it. This is a Jesus story, the coming of a powerful force of paradigm change in human behavior in the form of an innocent stranger with supernatural powers who stumbles into the lives of the Yost family in Imperial Beach, California.
DEADWOOD was a deeply pessimistic show regarding human behavior, and it feels to me like JOHN FROM CINCINNATI is about Milch personally changing, shifting his belief in people into something positive. I may not like the Paul Haggis film CRASH, but it’s not because I dislike the notion of optimism in cinema. It’s because I didn’t think Haggis earned his giant coincidental moments in his film. The thing moves so fast that it’s all set-up/pay-off with no time to breathe. JOHN FROM CINCINNATI tells its story over the course of ten hours, and because it gets to linger over details and allow you to learn about these people through behavior over time, these nine days in the lives of the Yosts feel like time genuinely spent instead of just a contrived dramatic exercise.
It’s a great cast. Rebecca De Mornay is a ball-buster of near-Godzilla magnitude as Cissy Yost, but it’s all just part of her mama lion heart that keeps her constantly fighting for her grandson Shaun (Greyson Fletcher) or her son Butchie (Brian Van Holt). Bruce Greenwood is awesome as Mitch Yost, Cissy’s husband, head of the Yost family. He’s a former surfing star who blew out his knee, forcing him to turn inward to prayer and meditation to survive. He and Cissy are a disaster at this point in their marriage, thanks in no small part to their absolute failure with Butchie, who was a rising surf star in his own right until he signed an endorsement deal and turned into a drug-addicted piece of shit. He fathered a baby that he abandoned on Mitch and Cissy’s doorstep, and they have raised Shaun themselves. Now, at 13, he’s poised to be a surf star as well, the third generation of natural ability, and he might even be the best of them all. It’s just that Mitch doesn’t want to let it happen because he’s afraid, and Butchie’s in no condition to be a good father, and Shaun doesn’t know who to turn to. There are all sorts of people in his life, influencing him, like Kai (Keala Kennelly), who works in the family surf shop, or Bill Jacks (Ed O’Neill), a retired cop who lets Shaun come over to help with all his birds, or even Linc Stark (Luke Perry), the promoter who destroyed Butchie in the first place.
John (Austin Nichols) shows up in the midst of all this, mysterious and simple to the point of stupid. He speaks in short cryptic bursts. “Mitch Yost should get back in the game.” His arrival is played as surrealist comedy for the most part, until...
Well, let’s not be coy. This is a show about miracles. Real miracles. This is not a show where it wants to make things ambiguous so you can argue about the nature of miracles or the idea of accidents that we misinterpret. This is a show about miracles. About the arrival of a divine being, someone with a pipeline to a higher plane of existence. And what Milch was so smart about was in giving this being this name, and in refusing to make this a direct hamhanded parallel, he’s made this a universal story. This is a Jesus story, as I said. It’s also a Buddha story. A story of gods and aliens and ghosts and the beyond. It’s a story about something larger than us taking enough of an interest in us to help... just when we need it.
Why the Yosts? Why does this being decide to start its return with them? That’s what the show asks, and in my mind, it answers the question pretty emphatically by the end of the series. The way these people are all interconnected, the way they depend on each other for survival, and the way more and more people become involved like Meyer Dickstein (the great Willie Garson) or Ramon (the also-great Luis Guzman) and the doc (the also-also-great Garret Dillahunt) or Steady Freddie Lopez (Dayton Callie) and Vietnam Joe (Jim Beaver) and Palaka (Paul Ben-Victor), or Shaun’s long-lost porn star mom, Tina Blake (Chandra West) or Cass (Emily Rose), who becomes John’s documentarian sort of by default. These are the disciples, the witnesses, the ones who are first to recognize the magic of what’s happening to this family. This is the community that John builds. This is the birth of his first church, and that’s such a strange and wonderful thing to write that I’m surprised this got greenlit at all.
Beautifully written, with strong performances, and stylistically quite striking, JOHN FROM CINCINNATI certainly won’t be to everyone’s tastes, but I found myself watching it all at once, over the course of two and a half days, and it felt to me like HBO has reached the part of its life cycle where it can finally support something akin to indie cinema, where they allow some experimentation from people who have delivered them hits in the past. I’d love to see David Chase go out on a limb this far when he finally decides to do another series. Or if he ever does. I think this is one of those beautiful accidents, something that snuck by, so good it was never meant to last.
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
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never watched it
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I was skeptical after the first episode, but two more in, and my wife and I were hooked through the bag. It's definitely about as far from DEADWOOD as you can get, thematically and stylistically, and equally great. I just wish Milch would quit fucking around with us and properly finish out a project. JOHN FROM CINCINNATI is one of those obscure wonders that will haunt this fan of great offbeat entertainment.
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Now I have to go check it out.
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The Joe Strummer song matched with the surfing footage is sublime. Absolutely perfect.
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Mar 26, 2008 7:18:38 AM CDT
No, RokurGepta, coaxial is only for Whedon/Thomas/Palladino item
by tonagan
Nothing else.
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It could've been as big a piece of television history as Six Feet Under. It 20, no, 40 years time, people will still be discussing JfC.
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I really liked the show.... with the exception of the last 2-3 episodes..... Rebecca D. Makes me Horny needs to be in more projects, I fucking love her work...
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But I understand, most people aren't about sitting back, taking everything in and figuring it out. I would assume most people that disliked JFC, didn't like/understand the Sopranos Episode "Join the Club".
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This one season seamed to tell a perfect story. Getting deaper, in my opinion, might take away from the mystery.
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Guess i should have given this a try.. damn.
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It works so well as a complete series, and Mori you point out everything good about the show. I like the mystery this show presents. How the different characters handle the different miracles is interesting to watch unfold, and their reactions shape the overall story. Excellent writing and casting.
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I don't think I will be watching it. I don't need another show I love to never have new episodes.
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HBO has a real problem with bringing us very interesting, well cast, deep stories then pulling the rug out from under us after we are finished. I never began to watch Big Love, because I didn't want to get burned again. HBO is a big tease. Entourage and Curb Your Enthusiasm are all they have going for them right now... as far as the dramas are concerned, they want Sopranos lightning in a bottle or nothing. I am getting far choosier with HBO as far as benefit of the doubt, because I feel burned by Deadwood and Carnivale.
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Is what I meant to say...
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this show stunk to high heaven
milch forget how to tell a coherent story apparently after deadwood -
You're the arbiter of all art now? This show was fucking genius, and it was just getting warmed up when the plug was pulled (never fails -- fuck HBO; with this gone and THE WIRE ended, that subscription is worthless). You'll get that, ZO, when you're a bit older and understand the world's a whole lot bigger than your "command center."
.... "Mother of God, Cass-Kai." Goes right up there with "HOW'S ANNIE?!" as one of the greatest last lines ever in a too-short-lived TV series... -
If that cocksucker, Milch, ever makes his way back to fuckin' Deadwood, he better have Bullock backin' his play. Cause if he has any future intention of completing his most masterful and worthy fuckin' endeavor, he'll have to first answer to me as to how he dropped the ball in the first fuckin' place. And as he sits across from me in my office, pissing himself, I have little doubt my mood will appear most wrathful from his present vantage.
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I kept expecting to see John's often-mentioned Father to show up, who of course would have to be played by Ian McShane.
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It certainly possessed this weird, off-beat quality, but the story was far too fractured to follow coherently. I loved Deadwood watched every episode, however, watching JFC became a grind after the first few episodes. At the end of the day this show did not succeed in telling a story, especially when you consider David Milch himself had difficulty describing what the show was about, to the point where one might wonder if he himself knows what it was about.
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It was a beautifully optimistic look at the power of community in America. Milch basically argues throughout the show that even when there are evil men present, the institution of the functioning community brings out the best in everyone.
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Mar 26, 2008 10:02:14 AM CDT
Song of Ice and Fire! HBO has the future of television.
by stereotypical evil archer
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Loved it...was a weird and fucked up show, but it made me happy and confused after watching it. I wish they would continue on with the story, but like M I'm sort of glad they aren't because it allows the mind to wonder and that is what it is all about. Praise to John!
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I liked some things about the show and disliked other aspects.
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Legendary status is obtained by staying true to one's own fuckin' nature. And I do abide mine.
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Yeah, chances are we won't get them, but I loved that show and wish it had a proper conclusion. Speaking of conclusions, HBO needs a new drama. Deadwood, Sopranos, Rome, and The Motherfucking Wire was quite easily the best line up of tv shows ever.
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When Austin Nichols did a short guest arc on "Friday Night Lights" Ausiello (or one of his ilk) did an interview and asked him about "JFC". Nichols told him that Milch had told him from the beginning what and who John was and had contacted him recently to tell him not to spill, that Milch had come up with a possibly new way of telling and completing the story. Haven't heard anything since, but as a true true believer of this amazing show (Moriarty's review mad me cry a little) I won't stop the faith.
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...but it highlighted all the most annoying ticks about the writing on "Deadwood". The repetitive use of certain phrases lent them less meaning, not more, and I really really wish somebody would teach the writers how to swear. I've never heard such uncomfortable, unnatural cussing. Many of the performances were stilted or came off as phony, particularly the supposed tough guy drug deal with the shades, who was corny as hell. Didn't buy him for a second. The gay hotel owner felt like a caricature, and I'm sick of gay caricatures. And fuckin' Rebecca De Mornay? Christ on a crutch, what a shitty performance. When you're out-acted by a pro surfer turned actress, honey, it's time to get outta the game.
I watched every episode as it aired, and every week I wondered why. Then I got to that pointless, meandering, incomprehensible monologue from Luke Perry at the end of the final episode, and I realized why I was watching: because I'd clearly done something wrong and needed to be punished, though lord knows what could have been severe enough to deserve that dreck. I'm sick of people talking about the "poetry" of the dialogue on "Deadwood" and "J from C". There's no poetry, and it's not Shakespearean: it's overwrought, pretentious claptrap. Frankly, Milch needs to stay away from TV for a while and get his shit together. -
Bring on John Adams.
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You know all poetry doesn't have to rhyme, right?
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Apparently, it also doesn't have to be any fucking good at all, base on "John From Cincinatti".
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I suggest you rewatch some of my monologues...especially the ones where I'm getting my prick sucked by one of my whores. If'n you don't find them poetic, perhaps I can interest you in a meetin' with Wu's fuckin' pigs.
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Mar 26, 2008 1:24:23 PM CDT
JFC Sucked! Finish Deadwood Instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by crackerfarmboy
Seriously JFC was terrible. If you liked it then you like pretentious attempts at art. It's almost as if Milch was daring us every week to try and make sense out of such utterly boring, stupid, and ultimately pointless nonsense. Fuck you Milch! Finish Deadwood or stay out of my life!
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I wouldn't go as far as to call JFC art. However, what I would say is that the show is VERY sublime, symbolic and metaphorical. Especially in it's dialog. This means 1 of 2 things for the viewer. The viewer watches JFC, doesn't get it. And thinks it's crap. Or the viewer watches, understands it, and loves it. And if one understands the show a whole new meaning opens up to the viewer. Which in turn adds more enjoyment to the show. I'm not saying one way is better than the other. I'm also not saying I'm smarter than anyone. I just happen to be one of the people that totally understood what was going on and explained it to others. Which in turn added to their enjoyment. I totally understand why someone wouldn't and would hate the show as a result. P.S., it wasn't Milch's fault that Deadwood was ended prematurely.
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I said I didn't like it. Also? Totally Milch's fault "Deadwood" ended early. He moved on to "JFC", lost all interest in "Deadwood", and didn't pursue the followup at all. In fact, I seem to recall an interview where he stated flat out he was far more into "JFC" than "DW" and didn't care much about going back to it.
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Fuck milch and fuck HBO once deadwood was canceled I stopped getting HBO and now I even stopped getting cable. I just download(or netflix) anything I want to watch. I'd buy the DVDS by HBO rapes people on those too.
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What happened with that was the executives told Milch they would let him make his Deadwood movies. However, at the same time they greenlit JFC. Then at the last second, did a 180 on the Deadwood movies (production on JFC had already began). So at that point Milch couldn't do anything. Milch even tried to finance it himself. That's a WAY too summed up version. However, that's the gist of what happened.
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And i started watching from the 2nd episode. It was like having a hammer dropped on your head from 5 feet up and watching the results.
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Well written, Mori.
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then it all kinda fell apart for me. maybe because I'd watched the first half on demand over a day or two, then had to wait a week in between the rest to air. there's a scene at the end of i think episode six where all the characters converge on the motel parking lot that i think was the turning point for me... huge wtf... i'll probably pick up the dvd, and try it again, as i'm a big Deadwood and Milch fan.
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This show sucked ass and I'm glad it's dead.
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fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. this show sucks. you suck. I suck. suck suck. suck fuck. fuck fuck. this show is great. this show sucks. you didn't get it. I did too. no story. great story. you're dumb. no, you're dumb. mac. pc. coke. pepsi. hillary. obama. fuck you fuck me. fuck him. fuck her. milch. filch. hack. crack. suck. fuck.
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I like to think i'm a smart guy, I really do. But i've watched and loved many dramas but none ever came quite so close to making me stand right (quite literally) at the tv screaming "WHAT THE FUCK!" on a consistent basis. This show never knew what it wanted to do and I didn't care for anyone except Ed O'Neill. Alright, maybe i'd give it a second chance...but seriously, the most confusing and unrewarding show i've ever tried to watch.
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i enjoyed this show.
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by pearl jam. that song and this show are practically meant for each other.
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Mar 26, 2008 11:53:00 PM CDT
Given to FLy, remember it as being awesome but cam't remember it
by stormwatcher
Does that make sense? Its like a lightbulb going off and then bursting. Now I have to go to itunes to hear it. Thanks!
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Mar 27, 2008 5:51:42 PM CDT
I love the "If you didn't like then you're not smart enough to u
by crackerfarmboy
I understood it just fine: It was stupid, boring, pointless, and 100% without any direction. If you want to call that good writing then go ahead; but I completely disagree.
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If you create something that no one understands, you will always have some people claim to understand it and call it "art". This show was a disaster from frame one.
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I recall while watching episode 3 of this show with my friend i turned to him and offered my prediciton that JFC would be remembered as the worst television show of all time. This strange hunch quickly developed into a certainty as the show went painfully onwards. The phrase that comes to mind here is "hoist by [his] own petard", which poor david milch most certainly has been by way of his inextricable assosciation with this show. If you watch the special features on deadwood season 2 disc 2 you'll notice Milch's preoccupation with staging an episode, or perhaps the entire format of a show "operatically". WELL he certainly accomplishes this but due to the fact that the subject matter is woefully unclear and at times laughably over the top and most often just very stupid, "operatic" quickly becomes "painful to watch". I have watched every episode of the show, and God help me david milch really needs to go back to rehab. The language that supported the authentic and unique feel of deadwood carried over to this smoldering turd of a concept show about surfers sounds so bizarre and forced not even the most intellectually haughty of us can stomach it. A great idea to start with, for sure--target that HBO demographic of middle aged men with a show about a super cool middle aged man who is not only MARRIED to rebecca demornay (giving a performance of no less quality than one could possibly expect of an 80s trash queen vying for critical acclaim) and banging a 20something on the side. As for the character of john, seriously what the hell was even going on. Monads? This show made twin peaks look like msnbc. Or maybe even Fox News. I'm feeling nostalgic so i'll point to three sequences that come to mind that people may be talking about 20 years down the road, as the stupidest shit they had ever seen in their entire god damn lives.
1.)The community ensemble dream sequence in which john, speaking with all the articulation of "go-dog-go" narrates his vision of a better world complete with graphic descriptions of pederasty, mob violence, and drug addiction.
2.)Luke Perry's (God love him it was seriously great to see him on that show, absolutely not kidding) "emmy speech" in which he berates his minion from one side of a hotel door with a severe flourish of melodrama that is probably floating somewhere over the north atlantic right now.
3.)THE UTTERLY INEXPLICABLE TWO MINUTE LONG SMASH CUT SEQUENCE of Perry's minion, the afforementioned 20something bimbo, editiing skate videos and pacing around her hotel room. I really had to turn away, I felt embarassed for Mr. Milch.
One could also tack on any of the times rebecca demornay spoke or moved or was not naked, any of the strange and inexplicable and often depressing deadwood cameos, or the very character of john himself, at first a curious novelty but QUICKLY becoming a barney the dinosaur-eque finger wagger, preaching obscure morality with a smug grin that can only mean "holy shit i cant believe you morons are paying 30 dollars a month to watch this shit".
I hope the DVD includes a secret feature where you get to see an alternate cut of the show in which john gets stabbed by mexican gang members for 2 hours straight. It would have a lot more artistic merit than this sad and senseless jumble of the detritus that clutters David Milch's brain. -
needed to be said. again.
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You hear me, Rebecca Demornay! Your constant shrieking ruined this show.
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