Cool News
Harry checks out Kimberly Pierce's STOP-LOSS
Films about our current situation in Iraq are not necessarily why we go to movie theaters. We’ve seen recent films on Iraq fail repeatedly at the box office and there is a reason. We generally go to theaters to escape reality, not to confront it. Right now there’s a goodly portion of the current election hinging on a stance regarding what we do in Iraq. There is no easy answer.
Most of the films we’ve seen have been documentaries about the various atrocities that are taking place in this war. Films like the one Brian DePalma made. Films that do not raise our estimation of our young men and women fighting everyday thousands of miles from where we are today?
Kimberly Peirce has made a film that isn’t about the terrible situation in Iraq. The soldiers depicted in this situation are men trying to do their job as best they know how to do. Shit does go down – and that shit is not the stuff of happiness, but it isn’t the sort of thing that makes us think worse of our soldiers.
The soldiers in Pierce’s film are short – they’re coming home. They’re from small town Texas – and after a very powerful opening where some men lose their lives and limbs… well its time for them to go home.
For Ryan Phillipe and Channing Tatum’s characters of Brandon and Steve… it’s time to go home. Brandon is looking forward to moving on with his life. And Steve? Well, he’s going to marry his fiancé, played by Abbie Cornish. These aren’t complicated people. They signed up for the military to fight and protect their country’s interest. They don’t feel the government owes them anything. They’re just ready to continue their post service life. They’ve done their bit for flag and country.
Then on the day where they turn in their gear and they’re supposed to get their discharge papers – they learn a new word for the day… STOP LOSS. The term STOP LOSS isn’t new in the military – and the current administration isn’t the first to use its authority to extend soldiers term of service. STOP LOSS came about after the draft was stopped. And it was first used during the first Gulf War by the first President Bush – and has been used during every military engagement from the first Gulf War – through Bosnia all the way to the engagements we are in today.
Ryan’s Brandon does not accept being STOP LOSS’d. Something happened on that final mission that shot his nerves, that made him no longer wish to be in charge of men in a combat situation. He doesn’t want people maimed and killed under his command – and moreso… he feels that this isn’t right. That he was being shafted by his country – and he was going to fight it.
The situation gets bad, right from the get go. We end up learning that there is apparently an underground railroad for getting service men in this situation to Canada or Mexico. The film paints a desperate situation for Ryan’s Brandon. Not only that, but Channing’s Steve decides to reenlist so he can get sniper training so he can choose his method of service – and this causes strife between him and his fiancé.
The story of STOP LOSS is a powerful modern military story. It doesn’t judge the war, nor does it paint our politicians in a good or evil light. Rather, the film shows the situation for our soldiers that get caught up in this system as being in a bad situation.
There are no solutions, no proposals made. This film is realistic and the choices are actually fairly simple for a soldier in this situation. They go back to Iraq.
The film, STOP LOSS, is a pro-soldier film about an unfair situation that many of our military men are in. Without a draft – and without high enlistment numbers… the policy of STOP LOSS will continue – not just through Iraq, but through any military engagement that occurs during a soldier’s time of service. It simply is the policy that exists in our modern military. You can learn more about it: here!
So how is the movie? The performances and the direction are excellent. This is a mature film with solid performances across the board. Nobody is dressed up to be an easy villain – and nobody is dumbed down to be a fool. The situation is what it is.
With BOYS DON’T CRY and now STOP LOSS – Kimberly Peirce continues her rather intimate story-telling. The situation isn’t pretty in either film. One dealing with sexual issues in America – and this one dealing with military service issues. She tackles both with a very sharp emotional point of view. These characters are alive and strong – and the situations… real.
There are ads on television that would have you believe this is a film about a military romance. That it’s a sweet story. Those elements are here, but be forewarned, this is a film about a situation that isn’t happy or cheery. Don’t look for fairy tale endings, because this story is about a situation that is sad for our soldiers – and one that doesn’t make you feel good about how they’re treated by the government.
That said, this is a film that will improve with time. It’s a very good film. Just hard to watch with the knowledge that this IS what is happening right now. That’s hard to escape while watching this story. But then, this isn’t a movie to escape reality, but to confront it and to expose it.
-
+ Expand All
-
Yay! It's a hollow victory...
-
EXPLOSIONS etc.?
-
Kimberly Pierce kicks ass...
-
because they sucked major ass. I hope this one is better.
-
ASAP. I'm wondering what that glorious bastard is up to next.
-
Because I want a review with some substance. "The direction and performances are good". Well gee thanks. Harry, please man, for me, on the next review talk about nothing but the film. Giving details and examples.
-
From the trailer the movie looks so heavy handed that it would plummet to the bottom of the sea in a second, Hopefully, the movie is as Harry says it is.
-
Huh? I didn't notice any midget soldiers. I agree with Industrykiller, I'd like to read Moriarty's review. I reviewed this almost a year ago (I can't believe it was that long ago), and I was kind, but I didn't particularly like it overall, particularly the performances. I'm curious as to how this film will be received.
-
Mar 20, 2008 10:36:47 PM CDT
The film is likely to flop, like the other Iraq themed films hav
by bduncan
Good review Harry, but I expect this will probably flop in North America, as other Iraq themed films have, for reasons Harry himself has given.
-
... the last thing I could ever expect from the Headgeek was a fair and balanced review of a subject such as thisHe is right about the stop-loss, and as unfortunate as it sounds, it's part of the contract you sign when you enlist. I should know. There is also something called the Inactive Ready Reserves, which, even if you are discharged, they can recall you up to four years after you are discharged if you only serve four years and out. Now, if you serve eight years and get out, you're done. But your first contract is for 8 years, not four. Four active or reserve and then four Inactive Ready Reserves.I did my bit, got injured (non-war injury), got out, and 9 mos later got recalled for a year. It happens. And we all know it can happen. I'm not going to judge guys who've been in the shit who just want out when they're done. There are ways around it, and if there is any post-traumatic stress going on, like Harry makes out like the one guy has, then he can get out. I had a friend like that. Trust me, the military doesn't want any non-coms or staff-NCO's with PTS. Then more than just their lives are at stake.And as bad as some of you think it might be for enlisted men, officers have it way worse.But one thing needs to be said, we all know these rules going in, and if some are ignorant, than it really is their own fault.
-
bush and dick are frauds and have had to implement "stop loss" because a majority of the military hates this illegal war and the shmucks who sent them there. Our brave soldiers, and the millions of patriots who support our troops and oppose this war and this "administration" are ashamed of the U.S.'s lack of leadership and their failure to fight terrorists and instead spy on American Citizens.
Shame on dick and bush. -
Bush is one stupid motherfucker. If it wasn't for his sleazy father he'd be handing people change at the local car wash.
-
Will we get the quality of films Vietnam got, eh?
Also, how many people are wary of Pierce's attempts to make Childhood's End (how very timely). She keeps talking about how they need a big star for the lead. Sounds ominous. -
Mar 20, 2008 10:51:28 PM CDT
I really wanted to see this this weekend...
by 23greatwoundsallgotinbattle
...but its not out till the 28th. WTF is up with nothing at all good coming out on a holiday weekend?
-
I'm sorry, the entire fucking premise of this movie is absolutely idiotic. Some good ol' boy decides to join the army to go fight in the war, and then finds out it sucks, and doesn't want to go back? Guess what, you're signing your life away to go help fuck up the way the world sees America, and helping damage a country further, maybe you should read the fucking fine print. I have no sympathy for the jackass in the movie, and hope it ends with him getting thrown in jail for being a fucking deserter.
Just because you can sign a piece of paper doesn't make you a hero. Your actions do. And the actions of this loser just make him even more of a loser. I hope this movie bombs huge. -
... but that's to be expected from an ideological zealot such as yourselfMost in the military don't hate the war. In fact, most believe they are doing what they should be doing. Most of them believe in the mission and that what they are doing are right.That isn't political, that's truth. I've always said, shouldn't we ask those who actually have the balls to serve what they believe instead of making your own ill-informed opinions. Because lets be honest, Grendel, you have no fucking clue what the fuck you're talking about, do you? When's the last time you dug a tank trap in the middle of a desert or been shot at by people trying to kill you (other than gang bangers, of course)?Yet another reason why McCain makes a better Commander and Chief than the last two Presidents or the other two candidates: he actually DOES know what it's like to be shot at, and shot down for that matter. But that's neither here nor there.
-
... here's the thing I love about these boards:You wouldn't have the stones to actually say that to a single man (or woman for that matter) who signs that piece of paper and serves. I'm guessing you're either 5'10'' and 350 lbs or you're 5'7'' 135 lbs. Either way, you don't have the backbone to back up your zealotry.That's why you hide behind your fake name on an aintitcool board and say things like that, instead of walking into your local recruiters office and tell some Staff Sergeant there the way you feel. Because you know if you did, you'd fall down some stairs hard... a lot.You're a fucking pussy, dude.
-
Like critch said, you're not automatically a hero because you're a soldier. There are some heinous fuckers in the military - guys who did not join with good intentions and have done some wicked shit over there (I know this). While I do believe that having been a soldier in a combat zone makes you a more qualified Commander In Chief, I don't believe McCain would be a good President for this country, which needs to get its ass OUT of other peoples' wars, not dig further in.
-
THE THIRD ROCK FROM THE SUN.
Because of Joseph Gorden Levitt. Get it? -
Funny, but I believe that this was the same argument being used by the isolationists back in WWII while Britain was getting bombed by Nazi Germany. Of course, the political left loved Hitler and Mussolini until they found out about the concentration camps.
Of course, now we vilify a President who removed a murderous tyrant that killed his own people, had stock piles of weapons that were banned under the UN Resolutions and blatantly supported terrorism against the Israeli's to the point of $25,000 checks to the families of any homocide bomber (the last two were even specified as being in violation of the ceasefire agreement and should have lead to the immediate revival of hostilities against Iraq). Go ahead, look up the cease fire resolutions, you might be surprised and actually learn something. -
on a fishing boat with the Sultan of Oman. Like he even gives a shit about the troops. He's not even capable of showing a shred of respect for the people he sent to death and a living hell. Cocksmoking fuck.
-
Look at the shit they are pulling on the Palestinians in Gaza. I'm not certain they are deserving of total support, but the fact is they are our economic and strategic toehold in that region and we have to blindly support everything they do, which is a pisser. Look at the horrible shit we are doing in GT Bay in the name of staying the course. America is being stained by the crap we are wading through under this administration's (and I don't think a democratic administration would be any better, mind you. I don't know what the answe is, but its not the democrats or McCain.) leadership. The seed of all this trouble has to be examined. The Mujahadeen were our allies at one point (they were glorified in a Rambo movie!). Why this sudden animosity towards all things red white and blue? The guys in power are involving us (whether we like it or not) in a lot of shadow hand dirty double dealings all over the world and we are getting bitten in the ass for it. Then we've got a send our people in where the majority of the American people (if not the majority of the military as expert said) are not willing to be themselves. The difference with Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire was there was a clear cut enemy to direct our indignation against. A war on terrorism can't be fought by ground troops. Its got to be clandestine.
-
Mar 20, 2008 11:26:22 PM CDT
I read the boards to get my political knowledge, don't you?
by lilbuddy
There is not enough space provided to have an inteligent back and forth. People come off sounding either too passive or too aggressive. People curse to get their point across. Other people simply re-type what other people have said in other sites, papers or on TV. Can't we just talk about Ryan's eyes? Or J Gordon Levitt's upcoming GI Joe work-put tape?
-
You'd be doing yourself a favor in researching how many UN Resolutions Israel is in violation of as well. How about then you support invading Israel for committing democide against the Palestinians and committing mass murder in the refugee camps on an annual basis, chief? Maybe you think Hitler and Mussolini weren't so bad after all then.
-
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
-
You ignorant lowlife scumfucking twat. You think all the National Guard troops who've done 2, 3 tours in Iraq were ever told they would be sent to the fucking desert, barely prepared for combat?
What the fuck is wrong with you? How low do you have to be, five years later to not only defend the war but fucking blame the soldiers who didn't ask to be sent to Iraq that they deserve to have their lives ruined and call them "losers"? What, you don't think you're the loser in the scheme of things? Keep dreaming, fucker. -
LOL. The boys of Hamas would LOVE you, dear child.
-
I haven't seen this level of involvement with a review from you in awhile. Your reviews have felt like they're being written by someone who is very distracted. Hopefully you're back and this continues. You really do a wonderful job understanding the films you review and breaking them down for us in a way that still allows for us to enjoy our own unique personal experience... Nice job.
-
Sorry, must have forgotten about the evil Jews in Israel. Can you actually name the last time a Jew walked into Gaza and detonated in the middle of a crowded plaza or market? Nope - because it hasn't happened. I love how everyone is quick to condemn a government that has sought to protect their citizens with walls and by killing terrorists yet refuses to do the same with the side the blatantly calls for the genocide of an entire race and seeks mass civilian casualties. And let's not mention the fact that Israel is the basis for many Palestinians livelyhoods - as they were able to work in Israel prior to the first Intafada. Truly, I can find Arabs in Israel - can you find a Jew in Palestine?
As for BringingSexyBack - you should probably note that I am talking about the binding UN Security Council Resolutions, not the General Assembly Resolutions that are not binding. After all, this is the same UN that failed to keep Hezbollah from rearming and even allowed Palestinian terrorists to use UN Ambulances to transport bombing materials. Of course, this is the same UN that has failed to condemn human rights abuses in Cuba, Syria, Iran, and a whole list of others. As for your comment about democide, please find an example where they have ever targeted civilians (ie, not Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or the list of others that have the stated goal of driving the Jews into the sea.) Also, read the PLO charter sometime - a peaceful charter it is not. -
I believe until you've served in uniform, your opinions on soldiers don't carry much weight. Comment on the government, events, etc, but not the people themselves. In other words, until you know, you don't freaking know. My dad, who was an E-7 when he got out, taught me that.
-
Because i didn't have my BDU's on right coming back from a throwaway college ROTC class. Wow what an asschewing that was.
-
You're just mad no one buys into the poor innocent Israel ploy. Here's a tip: it's hard to come off as the victim when you're bulldozing homes with families inside or closing roads to prevent food and medicine from going through. LOL
-
thanks for telling us!
-
I would rather watch a war movie than a personal PSA from some condescending Hollywood elitist twat. A Blackhawk Down type movie without the political bullshit would be the beez kneez.
-
That is the most boring review I've ever read. It says the film presents no opinion, so I'm not going to present one either. Hint: it's an anti-war film.
Harry, we're at war; pick a side. -
The old adage you can't judge a man till you walk a mile in his moccasins. Sorry FlyinHawaiian30 and no disrespect meant to you or your dad but thats a pretty lame excuse. You guys aren't soldiers so you can't criticize soldiers. Well i guess that also means we cannot criticize politicians, movie directors, actors, rock musicians, cops, lawyers, world leaders, etc, etc, and so forth and so on?
This is a message board where the main point is that people get to share their opinions in an open forum. I didn't see a post by Harry saying that only soldiers can comment on Stop-Loss. Does that mean that only doctors can comment on Sicko and only Lobbyists can comment on Charlie Wilson's War? I know I am probably beating a dead horse with all of my analogies but i am just trying to prove a point.
Just because i haven't enlisted doesn't mean my views aren't valid, and vice versa. Just cause some talk backers have and do serve in the military doesn't automatically make their opinions law. We all have a right to our opinions as long as we are civil and respectful of each other. -
...an instance of a Jew in Palestine? Uh...all of them? Hahahahah. I'm such an asshole. Seriously, God love the Jews for winning themselves their own country, but they are a paranoid lot -rightfully so no doubt considering their neighbors, but America too is becoming a paranoid, fearful lot and a lot of bad shit happens when people act solely on fear and paranoia. No, Jews don't blow themselves up. They don't have to. They have uber-military and politcal backing, hardcore kra magra (sp?) commandos and hardware. The Palestinians got legs and C-4. They're a desperate people and while I don't condone their methods, you've gotta see where they're coming from. They believe they are an occupied people. Their homes are being stolen and they are taught to hate Jews for it. They are gonna fuck shit up with the only means they have available to them and while that seems a savage means, the point of a war is to force the opposing country's populace to demand an end to hostilities. Since they can't go toe to toe with the Israeli army, they are gonna take the fight directly to the people they are trying to convince. Its what Al-Qaeda did with us.
-
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT, YOU BASTARDS.
-
IS A DEAD DESERTER. DEPORT HOLLYWOOD.
-
You can't stop it, you liberal fucks. That's what's eating at you. All your hippie BULLSHIT FAILED. We will keep killing terrorists wether you like it or not. You don't deserve the freedoms that our troops are fighting and dying to protect. You are GARBAGE. Stick that in your fucking pipes and smoke it.
-
Mar 21, 2008 2:04:33 AM CDT
THE ONLY "ATROCITY" IS THE LIBERAL PROPAGANDA SPOUTED BY THIS WE
by uss cygnus
PROVE THAT OUR TROOPS HAVE COMMITTED "ATROCITIES". PROVE IT. SITE SOURCES. SITE FACTS. SITE INDISPUTIBALE, UNCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE. WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS? WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES? WHERE ARE YOUR REFERENCES? YOU CAN'T, BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE WHAT GARBAGE THESE STALINIST LEFTIST TRAITORS FEED YOU LIKE SO MUCH TRIPE.
-
a couple weeks ago, and that was a much better movie then i thought it would be. Mainly in how it was put together with the internet clips, real interesting. That and the soliders came off as real soilders in the way they spoke. Its pretty easy to tell if someone is an enlisted member of the armed forces just by the way they speak. That said, not sold at all on this movie. Those actors i just don't buy as soldiers. Also with John McCain going to be our next president this movie will probably have more meaning. You know he is going to win.
-
pass.
-
but to summarize, i thought it was close but no cigar. very well intentioned and a potentially great set-up but poorly executed and overall a disappointing follow-up to boys don't cry. sorry kim.
-
My sources are close friends I've talked who've been in both Baghdad and Afghanistan. They're not gonna put that shit up on a website. Its not something to brag about, and its kind've understood that you don't rat out the guys in your unit, even if they're lowlife fucks. The unwritten rule is you're family or you're somebody else, and family takes precedence. I don't share this opinion, but I understand it. When one of your fellow soldiers bayonets an old man on a bet it has to be decided by the unit if the guy gets turned in and goes to prison, losing the wife and kids he has back home, or they bury the guy in the sand and forget about it. Personally I don't think a guy that does something so fucking atrocious could be much of a father or a husband, but again, its not me. I wasn't there. But saying the troops are saintly and do not do shit like this is fucking naive. You put an LA gangbanger through basic and cultivate his baser instincts, he is going to be a fucking monster. Soldier doesn't always equal saint. Deal with it.
-
...DVD adverts go in exclusives. Awesome. All I can say about that is situation. And situation some more situation. Seriously though, I thought this film looked good from the get go, but the lack of positive word didn't seem all that helpful.
-
...They go back. So how can he go to jail for deserting when he heads back to Iraq. You need to learn to read and stop displaying your ignorance. As for the soldiers being heros blah blah. Nah, most are just fucking idiots who cant get real jobs, or oddly wired individuals who like getting paid to do some very scary and odd jobs.
-
It'll be interesting seeing how Matt Damon and Paul Greengrass's
Iraq themed film 'Green Zone', that they're currently making,
will fare when it comes out, but it's slightly different to the others, in that it's an action thriller and is using real US soldiers in it's cast, not actors. -
Critch, I admire your posts for maintaining a reasoned and dignified stance without faltering. You sure know how to gently pull the veil from the eyes.
This is not an age where atrocities can be easily hidden anymore. If Israel can block access to the Palestinians so they could be dealt with under the radar, they surely would. And they tried by murdering a number of aid workers like Iain Hook and Rachel Corrie.
The situation is so foul that even Bush is open to talks with Hamas to make a peace deal happen. Both sides need to stop the fruitless bloodshed of innocent people, but the hardcore extremist elements - on both sides and of a type exemplified by the rants of USS Cygnus above - are still in charge. Unfortunately for them all. -
Your long name threw me off. Kudos.
-
Do the world a favor and kill yourself. You contribute nothing and only advocate death. That's all you ever do. That and you waste your life on all things Star Trek. So other than lining the pockets of Trek convention vendors, you're good for nada. Don't even waste time trying to prove otherwise.
-
...Either give up and move back to europe or other modern secular nations like white south africans, or finish the fucking job like us English speaking folks did with the Aboriginals and Native Americans, or our porco and spanish brethren did with everything south of texas. I mean, you could work it out and live in peace and harmony and mutual understanding like the white man and the maori, but I don't think Palestinians are as likely to eat you as Maoris, and thusly less intimidating and I DO know they cant play Rugby for shit. What they need to do is admit that this whole state for the jews was a bad idea, and give them a chunk of Germany to occupy as a form of reperations. Or Japan. Those bastards didn't kowtow to their conquering masters enough for my liking. Shifty, the lot of them.
-
...Further, and commonly uttered justification heard where I live for Israeli civies being fair game, is the fact that every man, woman and child is going to be part of the Israeli army (if they stick about) once they come of age, so its all in. Seriously though, like you can blame the palestinians. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather live in an Israeli dominated region than a fractioned mess like Lebanon or Palestine, BUT...if some fucker drove a bulldozer through my house and shot my dog then told me to pack up and go live behind a wall and be happy living off water drawn from a fucking well and tin food smuggled in from under the border, I'd probally convince some other dumb shit to go blow himself and one of their malls up too. Man, you yanks shot a fair few Englishmen just for asking for what now amounts to a minor increase in taxation. Let alone having them move in and telling you to shift your populace a little to the left.
-
I am a long-time reader... but this is my first posting.
Harry: you are the WORST reviewer. I agree with others in here that I prefer the other contributors' reviews. You put so much fluff in your reviews...but no substantive information. Please stop. -
ARE you fucking serious? "Nah, most are just fucking idiots who cant get real jobs, or oddly wired individuals who like getting paid to do some very scary and odd jobs." Hold up...let me get this straight. You want to move your cum-stained sticky little fat fingers away from your clown-porn and onto AICN and try to prove the stereotype that all you Left-Wing Hacks really are anti-military? Fine with me! But I think people like BringingSexyBack (who by the way, I am surprised hasn't answered your fucking stupid post yet) will disagree with you. You are a ridiculously perverted individual. Motherfucker, I have two degrees and a fucking lifetime of knowledge over your ass and have spent nearly 18 years in and out of the Marine Corps and the Army, as enlisted and now as an officer. I have sailed in every ocean and set foot on every continent on this planet (except for Antarctica.) Have you ever even left your little piece of shit burg? Have you ever done anything truly difficult in your life other than try to hack into some stupid database or scrape the last little bit of resin out of your Boba Fett water bong? Have you ever wondered what your raped asshole would look like if there weren’t any people like me, who suit up every day just to protect you? I live and work with some of the brightest, finest human beings that I know and all of them have made a quiet, solemn vow to serve this great nation. Fuck you, for your ignorance that my fellow servicemen have sweat and bled to protect. You, my fellow citizen are one complete and total ignorant asshole. Please kill yourself.
-
The "In the event of war..." clause is a well-known part of every soldier's contract. It isn't "fine print" or an underhanded method to screw our military members. Everyone that signs a service contract is aware of it.Also, the US does not send soldiers back into combat if they are mentally unfit. All a soldier has to do is request a mental evaluation if he doesn't feel he can handle the burden of combat again. There is no government bigwig rubbing their hands together maniaclly at the thought of sending traumatized people back into combat. The US military does not want head-cases on the battlefield.So, this movie is either about (1.)soldiers with legitimate medical issues that aren't seeking help or (2.)medically-sound soldiers that want to duck their obligations and the contract they signed.Either way, this is a movie-without-a-story unless it portrays all soldiers as ignorant of what their contract says, or if it portrays the government as an evil mastermind that found a loophole to exploit.I can only assume the movie uses one or both of these false portrayls to artifically create the drama for this movie. In reality, there's no story here and no movie.US soldiers: exploited by Hollywood again!
-
Only kidding , you guys are alright . :-)
-
(to everyone other than TOURIST, sorry about that last rant.)-
STOP LOSS: OK, I am a lifer, so the horrible feeling that everyone gets in their guts when they hear about poor little boys and girls getting 'Stop-Loss’d' (oh my!) for that 'damned war'...yeah, I don't really get that. I mean, I can understand someone wanting to go to college and get married and get out of the suck, especially if you are someone like me, who really hated it the first time around and who only wanted to go to school and smoke pot, get laid and whatever else follows....that being said...STOP LOSS is actually not as 'evil' as most of you would like to believe. EVERYONE who signs a contract with the (US) military signs an EIGHT (8) YEAR contract. That's right, eight years. The first four are ACTIVE; the second four are INACTIVE RESERVE. Or the first six active, then two active, you get the idea. I signed up for the Marine Corps back in 90 for six years active (what a mistake!) two inactive, equaling eight all together. Yeah, I should have only done four active but I was 17, wanted to get out of the house and prove myself in the real world. I was an only child to an overprotective Italian mother and father...who could blame me really. But I digress. So, STOP LOSS, even if you don't like the war, or the administration, or the government or whatever, is actually part of the contract that you sign when you first join. It says that, hey, if you get out after four, we still have you for four more. You can grow out your hair, get an earring or two, but if the shit hits the fan, we still have you by the balls. It’s as simple as that.
-
Here's to Bill Brasky!!!
-
I have to re-read his review. Harry called 'Redacted' a documentary??? What a fucktard.
-
Didn't you know? Anything showing us as two-bit, trigger-pumping, child-raping monsters is a 'Documentary;' while any dispassionate stating of the facts (i.e., length of service, inactive resreve time etc) is 'reactionary' and 'hate-mongering.' It's kind of like the NewSpeak from Orwell's 1984, only without the subtlety or cleverness. BTW, 25-year lifer here...
-
Yes Node32774, this is a prime example how we 'conservative fuckbags' are still in the fight, even though we are outnumbered by a 'conservative' (no pun intended) 51% to 49%. You liberal shitstains can't argue when hung-over! Get some balls man! What is your fucking major malfunction?!?! Hung-over elitist hate speech and demagoguery is best when hung-over, didn't you know?
-
Hooah right back at ya.
-
You left what must surely have been an inexhaustible bounty of mouth-watering, delicious Italian home cooking for desert combat? You were nuts man.
Tourist was bullshit on the "soldiers are fucking idiots without jobs" comment, I agree with ya on that (but I think totally on point vis-a-vis Israel/Palestine). But you realize he's British. So that was a cross-Atlantic slam, and I don't think he'd even say anything nearly so denigrating about the British troops. We've got a far larger and effective military but seriously hampered by a few but damaging bad apples. Just yesterday I read about soldier-on-soldier rapes, and that ain't cool. Not cool! What's going on with that? I'm not gonna cry epidemic, but what's your view on these problems, especially as an officer you must be well versed on the issue.
I have another question for you too about Stop-Loss. Does it apply to National Guard troops? What's the policy on those guys? -
Mar 21, 2008 9:19:07 AM CDT
I believe Bushwick Bill said it best when he said...
by kentucky colonel
FUCK A WAR!
-
Another alarmingly delightful post from an admitted liberal. Maybe my father was wrong about you guys...
OK, First soldier-on-soldier rape. Yes, this sucks and I refuse to sweep this under the rug. Bottom line, it is wrong and unjustified. Several things factor in to this that could change and alleviate the problem. NUMBER ONE THING THAT MUST CHANGE is General Order # 1. Since 1997, when deployed to any front or operation outside of American territory, the United States Military is held to G.O. #1: This states that: "Sexual relations in a deployed environment have a degrading effect on unit cohesion, morale, good order and discipline, and jeopardizes unit readiness as well as mission accomplishment. Therefore, sexual relations and intimate behavior between individuals not married to each other are prohibited." Also it bans "the possession of pornography, the consumption of alcohol, gambling and religious proselytizing." OK, the first I can kind-of understand...couples having sex in the war zone (not only is nasty…you should see some of the females involved…and the sand and dirt…eeugh…) but degrades morale. Think of it like this...Joe is getting laid on a regular basis and HUNDREDS of other guys know it and can't do shit until they get home to the real world. It causes too much shit and that is not desirable while fighting for your life. The alcohol, gambling and religious proselytizing all have made their points...we can't be drunk and win a war, gambling leads to blue-on-blue violence (that means troop on troop) and proselytizing is just insane if you EVER want win hears and minds... BUT PORNOGRAPHY?!?!?! C'mon man, no sex for 12 months and you expect me not to roll with several Gigs of Briana Banks on my hard drive (*huh-huh...hard drive...). They actually expect a modern, internet connected military to spend 12 months in the box without any 'box' and without any 'boxes' to drool over. WTF? So, I feel that if some liberties were issued on G.O. #1, then maybe there would be less rapage. But, let's get to the root. Bottom line is, there is no more, in fact probably much less, violence (sexual and otherwise) inside today's military to other co-workers than in the real world. Let me use this example...The US Naval Academy and sexual harassment, sexual abuse. Every year there are dozens of cases of sexual abuse and harassment at nearly ever major American university. Do you ever hear about it? I mean, unless a major football star is the one doing the plundering? No. But the military is held to a higher standard, as it should be, and whenever anything like this happens, you hear about it. When a female was harassed or sexually assaulted at the Naval Academy, you heard about it. Did you hear about the rapes that occurred at the University of North Florida a few years back? Probably not.
-
"they go back to iraq," thanks big guy. Throw a spoiler thing up on the front of this.Pointless to argue with everyone on here, but i just want to say it is possible that someone could sign up for military service and have their mind changed by the shit they encounter. the 'get what you signed up for' idea espoused by some above is pretty fucking stupid in my opinion.
-
The ads for this movie are a little misleading. My old man saw a commercial for the flick and asked if it was 'Brokeback Mountain' for the army. Think the shirtless dude put it over
-
If what you say is true you are the exception not the standard. I have been around the military all my life. There is a military building named after my dad. You sound like my grandfather in that you joined the military for the right reasons and used it properly, to excel your life right? He joined up as an enlisted (coming out of high school he could run a 4 minute mile) and through the military went to law school became a lawyer and eventually a judge. An amazing man but he’ll admit that a lot of enlisted members are not the brightest light in the room nor are all of sound mind. I respect military members because without people joining there would be the draft, and for most of you who don’t know a majority of the rest of the world has mandatory military time, so think about that as you eat your hot pockets and argue over who’s better Kirk or Picard. But all in all a majority of the military is not needed and based on the wrong intentions of other countries. And just the idea that any country needs a military is sad, that humans aren’t good enough to exist in peace, and also the fact that military’s don’t look like they are going anywhere should be your ultimate proof that there is no such thing as god, allah, Tom Cruise, Jewish God, John Smith, 8 armed Hindu thing or Budda. And all in all until the world realizes that there will always be militaries, and good and bad people will always be part of them, and they will be run by corrupt governments because lets face it anything government has to be corrupt because it assumes the right to control people against their free will. So all in all this movie still looks sucky, my favorite war movie using fancy actors is still Three Kings.
-
You're totally right, dude. This movie sucks, but the one thing that keeps you watching and not walking out is to see what happens to the soldiers...and Harry spoiled the entire fuckin' thing. Nice.
-
as in Joseph Gordin Levitt, he's got talent to spare but he doesn't even get mentioned? How was he in this Harry?
-
Whatever, I'd say in about 20 years we will be the united states of Wal Mart, brought to you by Coke Cola.
-
and I had no idea what the fucking movie was about. Now that I do...eh.
-
...with sweaty shirtless soldier boys....if Harry's review is on target then the marketing department has seriously lost its way...
-
'General Order #1.' And it should star Angelina Jolie and Scarlett Johansson as two Army Specialists who are lost in a 'Brokeback Mountain' style love affair, all while serving in Iraq. Full-on NC-17 rating, and that's not for violence! Yes sir...I would definitely see that one.
-
I forgot the second part of your question...The National Guard and Reserves falls under the Stop Loss rules as the active component. When you sign for 4, you also sign for 8.
-
Glad to hear that I sound like your grandfather...damn man, I just turned 35!!!
-
Generation Kill from David Simon and Ed Burns. Looking forward to Greengrass' Green Zone too.
-
"AMERICA....YOUR CHICKENS....HAVE COME HOME....TO ROOST!!!!!" Right?
-
Sorry, I think I spelled it wrong.
-
If this is Harry's writing then I am Abraham Lincoln. Seriously, he didn't tell us anything about what it would be like to fuck the movie, lick its choco-pussy, get our balls fondled by it while cramming a dildo up our collective asses... nothing.
-
Mar 21, 2008 10:41:47 AM CDT
harry, that actually sounded like
by lloyd bonafide the korean war veteran
a level headed review. Did you stop taking drugs?
-
Bill, not only do the troops deserve some leniency with porn, as a matter of common sense, but really we have failed them on a lot of fronts. Poorly armored, giving them shit service via KBR and their ilk, and an unspeakably sham when it comes to veterans' care. You sure put things into perspective with the rape issue. The military as a micro-society, sometimes you forget it. The good and the bad, but I do happen to think that the military has far fewer crimes than our nation's average, at least I'd like to hope that's the case. I appreciate your insight. I don't see why some people think Talkbacks are not a good forum for discussions like these. They are perfect. I don't know of a better forum or site, in my experience.
-
great experiences here on TBs with the likes of you and some others. What do you think about what's going on now between your two candidates? Did you already pick a side, or are you rooting for both? Discuss...
-
US Armed forces has 2,900,000 members on active and reserve status. Any time one of them does anything wrong, you hear about it.Yeah, out of 2,900,000 people there has to be one or two lunatics. But I'd compare the "wacko rate" between a random sample of military members against any other demographic any day.Also, Bill: another great reason for GO1 is that sex between unmarried people is a capital offense in many of the theaters the military deploys to.
-
If you choose to make a (literal) pawn out of yourself, what grounds do you have to complain? I'm am in no way in support of this war, but I have little sympathy for those who complain about being in the armed services and subject to it's demands when they signed up for it out of their own free will. Some do it for a bonus, some for school tuition or some other incentive. But you should educate yourself on the risk involved.
-
All, I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan in an Army Infantry leadership position. I've been here awhile and I also serve with hundreds of Soldiers that work for me or with me who've done two or three tours to either Iraq or Afghanistan and not once have they encountered a legitimate war crime situation. I certainly haven't seen anything like that in Afghanistan.
Don't let political rhetoric blind you to facts and reality. Both political parties use fear to taint public perceptions on issues, although it seems our liberal friends get suckered into it a little bit more easy than the other side.
First reports, especially media reports are usually wrong. This is mostly because the reporters working for the AP and other news orgs are in Baghdad/Kabul hundreds of miles away from where the incident happened and they rely on propaganda put out by our enemies to report the story.
For instance, in Afghanistan a few days ago the media was abuzz about 6 civilians, including a woman and child, being killed in Khowst(near the Pakistan border). What the media didn't report accurately is that four of those people were NOT civilians, they were Taliban who used the woman and child as human shields. And in fact the ballistics showed the child was killed by Taliban fire. You aren't going to see that in your media reports or from the mouth of an anti-war politician.
American soldiers are 99% well intentioned. Here in the combat theatre over half of the group I serve with has re-enlisted here in country, fully knowing that means they'll probably end up doing another deployment a few years down the road.
These men and women serving in uniform are true patriots who believe in doing something greater than themselves, a trait that is often lost on what has been dubbed the ME Generation(those of us between the age of 18-26)
The operations in Afghanistan and Iraq are going heavily in our favor, we still have some work to do getting the Iraq/Afghan governments to become self-sufficient, no one thinks its easy. But unlike most Americans, we aren't willing to quit, that is something that goes against everything we believe in.
Quitting is easy, withdrawing from Iraq is easy. What isn't easy is facing the reality that if we were to withdraw right now, Iraq/Afghanistan would become centers of gravity for Radical Islamists. A safe haven for them to regroup and plan further attacks against the Continental US or Europe.
The biggest national security mistake the U.S. made in the past twenty years wasn't invading Iraq. It was disengaging from Afghanistan after the Soviet-Afghan War, we should have helped rebuild that country in the `90s instead of ignoring it. We had just successfully completed the largest CIA covert program ever and had alot of good will come out of it and we squandered it by leaving Afghanistan to the devices of warlords and Islamic Radicals who eventually took it over in the form of the Taliban.
If we leave Iraq right now, I assure you we will have to go back into that country to secure it in the next 10 years. We'll start all over again from square one. Don't let your short sighted political biases ignore the fact that since 9/11 not a single terrorist attack has been successfully launched against the US. That is an astounding fact when you compare it to the same length of time in the 1990s. We must be doing something right. Believe me its not from lack of effort from Al Queda, these guys are still active, we see them every day here in Afghanistan.
Some of you argue that Iraq wouldn't be a problem and we wouldnt have to worry about instability if we had not invaded in the first place; we should have left Saddam in power.
I will tell you this, ignoring Saddam and the central role Iraq plays in Middle East stability would have bit us in the ass in the future. Again I can't expect the ME Generation to be thinking farther ahead than what they're gonna be eating for dinner. But anyone who looks at National Security Strategy going 10-20 years ahead of the present day will agree with this assessment. One way or another an intervention would have occurred in Iraq.
We can't afford to be isolationist and we can't risk not having a strong military. What you people dont realize from the comfort of your lawn chairs and computer desks is that Evil people with bad intentions do exist in this world, and I'm not just talking about Directors like Michael Bay....Really bad people who will cut your head off for exercising the liberties many of you seem to take for granted.
No one complained in the 1940s when we A-Bombed Japan and took out half a million people. Because they saw evil at Pearl Harbor and in the mounting casualties in europe both from warfare and concentration camps.
Real evil didn't disappear after WWII, after the end of the Cold War, after the Taliban were driven from power in Afghanistan.
Evil is a part of the human experience and always will be, only the dead will ever see the end of war.
Those of us in uniform sacrifice our time and efforts so that you guys can continue debating flames on optimus and other more important things.
Stop loss has already been explained in depth, its something everyone who signs the contract understands and accepts. Dont let anyone fool you into thinking its a backdoor draft or some other nonsense, it sucks for some people that hope to move on after fighting in war, but again its a neccessity so you can continue whining and complaining on this website without fear of getting drafted.
Nem -
Agreed Maddox, I just don't think that you can justify the porn ban on 19 year-old Leathernecks and Joes who won't even get to put their hands on a woman for 6 months to a year. It if fucking cruel and unusual punishment. ---and caerlas, I agree with you; if you are Man enough to sign the contract, then be Man enough to fulfill it. The only thing that I will say that differs with your post is that you missed some other reasons why we join: Love of one's country (Oh! Can you just imagine... here on AICN, someone dares to bring that one up!!!), trying to better oneself, pulling yourself out of a bad situation, i.e., bad neighborhoods, over-bearing parents, etc, or maybe they just don't want to end up working nights at the Gas n' Sip, waiting for their opportunity to post 9-11 conspiracy theories on whacko nut-job sites like this one....just a thought...
-
"Here's to NemesisNY!!!!"
-
...You dont protect me. In fact, everything you do endangers me. Yes, I have been around the world, through Asia, Europe, North America, Down Under etc, and whats more I did it without having to fucking KILL PEOPLE for cash. Besides, you obviously fall under the catergory of an oddly wired individual who likes doing odd jobs. What other reason is there to be in the army? Your not protecting your land or populace. Maybe you just like serving a small minority who profit off your organised violence. I have a few friends in the millitary. All bar one joined for the first reason, one friend went to the airforce because he perverse and enjoys the environment and has no moral qualms. Of my family members who joined, at least two work overseas for private security doing odd and dangerous jobs like mine removal. I honestly cant think of why anyone would join in a time of non threat, other than desperation or inabillity to achieve goals without having some dick yell in your ear. Like most people in my severely economically limited area that I grew up in, you had a choice between the dole, shipyards or defense force. I moved to Sydney instead. I can't lower myself morally to those depths. As far as soldier on soldier rapes go, that shit has been popular amongst Australian and British army for a long time now. What do you expect with that class of people gathered together. Its a step up from prison.
-
Don't want to go to Iraq? Don't sign up.
-
war with China and Austrailia.
-
"Bodies" for one half of the commercial and a swelling dramatic score for the second half. It was like two dueling editors both had their way and neither one knew what the fuck they were selling. If this is in fact a good film, I didn't sense it from the commericals.
-
I can see from the trailer of this movie that they chose to not use the FACT that there is written contract that all services use.
FACT all contracts are for EIGHT YEARS, even though some of that time is on inactive reserve.
FACT, you can be called back eight years after that time is up.
This is more anti military crap, and as an honorable discharged vetran it pisses me off that the reality of my service is purported to be represented by this fraud! -
I love you man. I have been wondering where our alternate fuel source was for years! Let those fucks EAT their oil! The only thing worth saving in that sad place are the Jews...tick...tick...tick...I can hear the Anti-Semites coming out of the walls as I type this, drooling over the opportunity to espouse more pro-Palestinian, racist, anti-Jewish Reverend Wright bullshit. Whatever. If you were surrounded by enemies that hated you because of your religion and race and were attacking your country every seven or eight years, you just might take a few 'buffer zones' yourselves. But I digress. Also, where are those damn laser guns and battle beasts?!? Gimmie some new, cool shit to fight Hadji, like Mask vehicles (I want to be the tow-truck) or the G.I. Joe Trouble Bubble. Some shit like that. I want to be home for my birthday this year damn-it! Well, according to the pole-smoking faggot Tourist, I guess I probably shouldn't go home...I should be too embarrassed to be seen by all of my 'successful' friends.
-
Thanks for your service and stay safe out there - it's people like you that allow all of us to post on site's like these and have these interesting posts and debates. Funny how it's the soldier that allows pacifist to whine and cry that war is bad without ever having to face tyranny or villainy head on.
As for Rachel Corrie (BSB) - one should know better than to stand directly in front of a heavily armored bulldozer with a sign. Take a look at one of those things and look at where she was standing. This would be akin to standing directly in front of a moving mack truck and expecting the driver to a) see you and b) stop. It should also be noted that the Israeli's will evacuate the building prior to destruction as a direct result of someone that lived in that house murdering their civilians. Then again, if one wants to step in front of these bulldozer's in the future and is willing to accept the consequences of their actions (something or society is loathe to do), then more power to them. -
We aren't on the brink of chaos. I realize all of you people wet your pants at night thinking the end to the Great American Experiment is at hand, but we are no closer to national destruction than we were at other dark times in our country's history e.g. Civil War or the Great Depression.
Our Military Technology is a force multiplier, it allows us significant capabilities without having a 5-10 million strong Armed Forces. However, let there be no doubt that the strongest and most important asset we have in the Military is the fighting will and spirit of our Servicemen/women.
The reason our Soldiers/Marines/Airmen/Sailors have come out on top in battle is because of our will and never quitting no matter how tough it is. Fighting and willing to sacrifice for an ideal, for your buddy next to you on the battlefield, and for those back home.
Our strength isnt the size or technology of the military, its the individual that lays it all on the line everyday and works to achieve for the greater good in service for a cause greater than one's self.
These traits will carry us through any conflict. Even in Vietnam, when the political and popular support faded and left our Men/Women deployed behind, these Soldiers kept fighting and winning. The little spoken about truth regarding Vietnam is that we won every single major engagement in that war. Even the Tet Offensive was a decisive U.S. victory on the battlefield, we lost in the media though.
The most dangerous thing for America right now isn't how the Military is conducting itself, its how the politicians and general American public convey their lack of support and respect for the sacrifices we are making to further national security goals.We won't ever lose a war on the battlefield without first losing the support from back home. Soldiers can't run factories, take care of deployed Soldiers' families, generate mass media support or force Congress to pass budget resolutions. Only politicians and the average citizen can do those things.So, when you wake up everyday you need to ask yourselves, are you going to take the status quo for granted or are you going to help further this great country through verbal support or physical labor.China and Russia are threats, this is true. We need to engage them through diplomacy in order to avoid conflict 10-20 years down the road, we need to pressure our elected represenatives to stop worrying about getting a vote tomorrow and expend real time, energy and resources towards acknowledging and heading off the threats that will come 10 years from now.The real danger for the USA is that the ME Generation and politicians continue this sad trend of putting bandaids on wounds requiring stitches. We need elected represenatives that are willing to fight the challenges of today, while also engaging the ones that haven't yet made the front page of the NYTimes or onto a Zagby public opinion poll.Anyone whose been to one of these Middle Eastern shitholes or whose reading about the violence in Tibet right now should have a healthy respect for the security, propersity and freedoms we enjoy in the US. Don't take them for granted, they can go away before you know it. Just as the Romans and other great Empires have fallen, the US and everything we do and enjoy can also end if we don't fight to protect it.The ME Generation's calling card is, "let someone else worry about it, all I care about is making money and posting my blogs". If you keep that attitude, your money will eventually mean nothing and your children/legacy will be living a nightmare.You all have a choice, you all can make a difference either through verbal or physical support. Don't squander it, make it count. Nem -
...the exact same as I would sympathize with any other human being in any shitty situation around the world, no matter which side of whatever arbitrary geographical line they happened to have been born on. But I'm not going to lend any support, financial or moral or otherwise, to people who want to delude themselves that they're "fighting for righteousness" by unquestionably following orders issued by a clearly corrupt government, whether that's the Bush administration or the Baath party. Furthermore, my freedom isn't dependent on the actions of ANY other humans other than myself, and if you believe that your freedom is dependent on someone else's actions, you're not really free at all. If my freedom is in jeopardy, then I'll fight like hell to protect it, just as I imagine many Iraqis are doing today. The people in charge of running this war have been completely and demonstrably wrong so many times that I can't believe anyone could be fooled into believing that this war is designed to do anything but protect their hold on power, but I guess military conditioning is really quite effective. Well, you can delude yourself into believing that the occupation of Iraq is protecting America's freedom, but don't expect the rest of us to join in your mythical heroic fantasy. The only thing I hope for in Iraq is that ALL the idealogical warmongers kill each other off entirely and free up space for those who think for themselves. And if you feel the same way, you have my full support.
-
For every atrocity committed by Israel, there's always some mealy-mouthed whitewash like the one you just threw on the Rachel Corrie murder. Plain and simple: according to eyewitnesses the driver saw her, paused, and killed her. It was a murder. Not a combat situation, no mistaken identity. Just a plain murder of an unarmed aid worker. By your logic, all the Jews and gypsies in Europe should have seen the writing on the wall and abandoned their homes and left, or otherwise jump into the sea because if you're stupid enough to stay around then you deserve to die at the Nazis' hands. Well, I don't think the Palestinians ought to have their homes destroyed, or themselves killed, at Israel's whim. If you hate them, for whatever reason, enough to justify wanton murder and genocide, then at least have the balls to be honest about it. You'd certainly not be alone.
-
Dude, there's a lot more to say as I've just perused this TB but I have to leave it for manana. As for the Presidential race, I wish it were just Obama and McCain out front and debating the core issues. With the war and the economy (the lifeblood of our country) in such tatters, I can't believe we're just getting diversions and distractions instead of a serious debate about who is best qualified to lead come January 09.
As for the MidEast, you and I differ greatly on many things but let's stay in that golden grey area and not the black and white ones (which Tourist apparently inhabits vis-a-vis the role and necessity of soldiers). I would point out that not all Muslims hate Israel. Turkey, in fact, is one of their biggest trading partners and as you probably know, conducts joint military exercises with them. Yet another grey area. I also happen to think Pakistan made a surprising move towards stability by rejecting hardline posturing with the last election. -
...Of their religion or race. They are surrounded by enemies because they are spectacuarly violent and hostile invaders. If you wish to know what handy anti-venom to use on Aboriginals, should you invade, its called Alcohol and Sniffin' Petrol. Us white men used it to subjugate the entire race for hundreds of years. Why China and Russia? Don't us westerners just love them now? Russia really only cares about everyone else staying out of their business...Same with china, who also handily double up as fine makers of our cheap consumer goods. The only people they are a threat to are their own unfortunate subjects and neighbours, whome no one can decide if they are actually chinese or not. Russia? What, like we give a shit if they want to decimate some muslim extremist dominated shitholes now? Aren't you guys on the same wavelength?
-
...they would double ticket sales.
-
I realized a long time ago that you can't argue with idiots. So i'm not going to get into a drawn out discussion of why you lack a basic understanding of personal liberties and freedom throughout the history of human civilization. Or why in a demoractic republic your liberties and freedoms are guaranteed through the will of the majority and your individual ability to exercise freedom is limited to what the majority allows you to get away with. You can smoke pot or murder someone, that's excersing personal freedom, but you will pay a consequence dealt out by society in the form of Justice. So good luck with that ill fated "philosophy".
I will say this, you speak with alot of bravado, but I guarantee you would tear up and crap your pants the minute an unsharpened rusted knife is put to your throat by an Islamic Radical as he then begins to slowly saw your head off. Your only crime being you were in the wrong place at the wrong time when these people went out looking for someone to kidnap and kill for propaganda purposes. The last thing you see before you die is the blood pouring out of your body and a hooded Islamist pointing a camera at you while someone off to the side reads verses from the Koran.I don't describe that scenario to instill fear in the reader, but to remind you all that this really happened to two Americans, Daniel Pearl and Nicholas Berg.
Daniel Pear, a reporter for WSJ, was kidnapped and executed by Al Queda associates in Pakistan. Nicholas Berg, an American Contractor in Iraq there to restore basic quality of life services for Iraqi citizens was also executed by Al Queda. Wrong place, wrong time...out trying to help others.
Your pacifist bullshit view of humanity is what got Europe into World War II after Neville Chamberlain's famous remarks, "There will be peace for our time". Many Jewish citizens of Europe, who had committed no crime other than being born into a certain religion and circumstance were methodically murdered. I'm sure many of them also exercised personal freedom in their everyday life, many Jews in Germany and Austria were initially sympathetic to the Nazi rise to power and the powerful rhetoric of Hitler.
Your stark portrait of American Soldiers being nothing but brainwashed into executing orders of questionable intent and legality is laughable at best and really a demonstrationg of poor judgement and understanding.
All American Military leaders spend hours getting schooled on the Geneva Convention and the Law of Land Warfare. The vast majority of tactical fighting, decision making and key leader engagements are done by young military leaders between the age of 22-30. We are given broad guidance by Generals and as it makes it way down the chain of command it becomes more concise until a Mission Statement is given to the tactical unit that actually goes out and engages the Iraqi/Afghan population.
I've spent 95% of my time in Afghanistan conducting shura meetings with Tribal/Village elders, sitting down and hearing out their problems and coming up with solutions together in order to make their sphere of influence a safer place. I've done over two dozen Humanitarian Assistance projects utilizing donated goods from schools, churches and other non-government organizations. The few times I've had to use lethal effects to create a safer environment or defend myself, that decision was made by myself or someone under my command, never had an American General, politician or anyone else above the rank of Captain interfere with my decision to fire a shot. We follow the law of land warfare and if we don't there are consequences to pay and you've read about them in the news, I'm sure.
Do we make mistakes? Sure, we have in all wars. Are there some Soldiers that committ acts counter to our values and against the law? Yes, but they are few and far between and given as a whole when compared to American Society as a whole they still statistically represent less than 1% of the same type of crimes that are committed by American citizens in an American city. Unfortunately, they get more media attention because the Military is held to a higher standard than a private citizen.At the end of the day, George Orwell had it right, "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."A President once said, "We live in freedom because every generation has produced patriots willing to serve a cause greater than themselves."Nem
-
Nothing you have written validates the military being in Iraq. You're not fighting Nazis, and there is no imminent threat to our country or citizens from Iraq and there never was. The actions of the military in Iraq, as directed by the administration's policy, are making the world less safe. The military shouldn't be there, and I'm not going to pretend to support the people who enable our corrupt government to take over and occupy another country on a whim just because they're "doing their job." When the whole war is a mistake, every little action within that war is also a mistake. Afghanistan is a different story. I believe that needed to be done, and needed to be the priority. But I'm talking about Iraq. And there is nothing that makes you or another soldier any more of a brother to me than some Iraqi "patriot willing to serve a cause greater than himself." Good luck with your own ill fated philosophy, I hope it doesn't get you killed for nothing.
-
It's funny - you act like you're so high and mighty and are quick to be accusatory by essentially referring to me as someone that would support unjustifiable actions. However, you refuse to acknowledge that your facts are biased and wrong. The video of Rachel Corrie was available online for sometime and, having watched it, there was no hestiation. Again, take a look at the bulldozer with the shielding in place - it would have been impossible for the driver to see virtually anyone standing directly in front of them. Again stand directly in front of a semi truck (or in the blind spot of a semi) and see if the driver can see you. There are safety courses offered in many states to show the dangers of slow moving vehicles when passing a semi and many will even position a small car in front of the semi to show that the vehicle cannot be seen. This is the same concept. Additionally, you seem to have this desire to associate me with Nazist policies or leaders and you couldn't be further from the truth. The homes that are destroyed are not at "Israel's whim" but is a standing policy that if you murder Israeli civilians (esp through a terrorist attack) your family will lose their home. However, they don't murder the relatives are you are attempting to show and the situation within the PLO territories is entirely different from that of WWII Germany. No one would make the statement that you are attempting to make by stating they deserved to die because they stayed - just the same as I am stating that Israel has ever right to defend themselves from murderers that launch rockets into their territory everyday. Just the same as Columbia has the right to pursue FARC terrorists that kill their civilians. Just the same as the US has the right to pursue Al Queda that has killed our civilians. Given your early statements, you clearly cannot differentiate between terrorism and protecting ones civilians. This isn't Nazi Germany slaughtering innocent people this is innocent people being asked to sit back and be slaughtered. The two couldn't be any further apart, yet you will continue to post your anti-Israeli rants while offering no evidence to support your theories - only third hand eye-witness accounts. The same eye-witnesses that attempted to show a mass attrocity at Jenin - only for video to show dead bodies being dug up and thrown in the streets, only to show living people being paraded down the streets under sheets to make the world believe they were dead.
-
Just that right there, your use of the term "imminent threat" shows your complete and fundamental lack of understanding of how War should be used as an extension politics in order to further our national security.
I very clearly remember "imminent threat" being thrown around by politicians in late 2002 and early 2003 leading up to Iraq. As an argument against pre-emptive strike it holds no water.
How do you even define "imninent threat"? Is it a threat when an Iraqi ICBM is already in the air halfway to its target? Or perhaps not even until the ICBM has hit its target and caused damage to coalition lives and objects?
Is it an imminent threat before or after the Iraqi government funds & researchs weapons of mass destruction production program? Is it an imminent threat when those WMDs are transported across the deserts of Al Anbar in Western Iraq to Syria? Or is it not "imminent" until Syria actually recruited and sent out an agent to make use of a WMD device?
On the strategic level of war planning and execution, imminent threat is nothing more than recognizing ANY type of signal or intelligence that demonstrates the HOSTILE intent of a foreign nation against US or Allied nations when diplomatic efforts between politicians have failed. Just a single speach from Saddam saying he's going to burn Israel to the ground is a demonstration of hostile intent, thus also an imminent threat when looking at war on the strategic level.
Diplomacy was pursued in Iraq and it failed. Iraq violated 19 UN Security Counsel resolutions, it kicked weapons inspectors out of the country and impeded their ability to conduct proper checks. Even on the eve of war as late as a few weeks before the ground invasion began, Saddam remained defiant not only to US diplomatic overtures, but those of other more "sympathetic" European countries. Your groundless defense of Saddam and his dictatorship is appalling and clearly shows your own lack of humanity and understanding of the fundamental right of people to enjoy freedom & liberty.Its disturbing that any American would actually go out of their way to defend the actions of a Dictator that ordered mass genocide.Let me give you a condensed cliff notes version of what going into Iraq has done for our long term national security.By going into Iraq and creating the first solid democratic nation in the Middle East we've secured a foothold in that area right in the middle of two threats, Syria and Iran. Iran being the bigger threat, by having a democratic Iraq with a minimum US Force presence of 25,000-50,000 Soldiers for the next 50 years we have effectively deterred Iran from ever mounting a serious WMD program or any type of overt material/financial support for terrorist organizations. It also helps that we have a presence in Afghanistan, which shares a western border with Iran.Furthermore, with a large US force located in the cradle of Islamic Fundamentalist movements originating from Iran and Saudia Arabia its a very attractive target for an Islamic Radical to come to Iraq in order to wage his Jihad. This is what we want to happen, we want them to come to Iraq and fight us there. We want them to get themselves all killed and pre-occupied spending time, money and equipment fighting a US military element. Instead of them hiding in the shadows, this brings them out in the open for our rifles to target, its perfect. Islamic Radicals who otherwise would be devoting their time planning terrorist attacks on innocent US civilians and targets in Continental US are getting killed by the bushel in Iraq.Thus, we get back to the fundamental theory supporting your argument: "The actions of the military in Iraq, as directed by the administration's policy, are making the world less safe."There is nothing less safe in the world from invading and securing Iraq, certainly not for Americans and Coalition members. Like I said in an earlier post, we haven't had a single terrorist attack against American soil or a significant American target outside Continental US since 9/11/01. Thats an astounding testament to the effectiveness of the current Global War on Islamic Radicalism. In the same length of time in the 1990s there were terrorist incidents on US Soil and US Embassy/Military bombings. Bush and his policys have achieved security just by the fact nothing has happened since 9/11. There isn't any pissed off Iraqis outside of Iraqi territory waging war or even committing terrorist acts. So how is the world "less safe"? You aren't the first person I've posed that question to, its something I ask Professor and Politicians I've encountered in the past five years and not a single one of them can point to an event that has signaled that the world is not "safe". If you can do it, i'll give you a cookie.The reality is that the world has never been "safe" EVER in Human history. Every nation, every religion, every culture or society that has existed on this planet has had some type of adversary or dare I say "Nemesis". It goes back to the fundamental fact that real evil is part of the human experience. Whether or not we invaded Iraq, the massacres in Tibet would still have occurred. Regardless of invading Iraq, the atrocities of Darfur would have happened. Every day the world is not "safe" for certain people, cultures or governments.Those that sit here naively believing they can fix the worlds problems and that there will be "peace in our time" are delusional and are ignoring 6,000 years of human history. All you can do as an American citizen is support and defend our own foreign policy and the military extension of it as we pursue security for the US, its citizens and its Allied nations.You can speak in broad rosy language about peace and trying to discern the definition of "imminent" to your own personal liking all day long, but that just ignores the details of reality that people face everyday by looking down the wrong end of a gun or the edge of a knife.In conclusion, don't worry yourself about being a "brother" to myself or any other Soldier, you could never achieve that status even if you did support our actions in Iraq. A brother is one that loves and fights beside the other. You lack the stomach and bravery to ever fight for something more important than yourself. Nem -
Fuck our foreign policy. I find your recitation of the "facts" regarding the buildup to war in Iraq to be incredibly disingenuous, if not outright falsehoods, but again, that's to be expected from someone who is essentially government property and is contractually incapable of dissent with the official propaganda. You want to believe that the fucked up situation in the middle east isn't a direct result of decades of the same kind of arrogant, myopic foreign policy that you now advocate as the only solution, go right ahead, but don't expect the rest of us to swallow that bullshit. You have to fight on that lie because you have no other choice. Unjustifiably killing civilians by the thousands, throwing them into perpetual martial law, and occupying their land on flimsy, abstract pretenses of what "might" happen is a short-sighted way to achieving long term stability and security for anyone. It's simply job security for the people at the top and their cronies and the guys at the bottom who can't afford college. I don't expect you to understand, and I don't really care, you can't teach a hammer to love nails. And frankly I have no interest in brotherhood of any kind with sanctimonious glorified gangster muscle.
-
It would be cooler.
-
...I got nothing else to say here, battle not with monsters and all that, anyone who wants the last smug word can keep it... enjoy your wars and your strictly defined freedom.
-
Look, you're an idiot and here's why:
1)I have no contractual obligation with the government through the military that limits my freedom of speech or prevents me from stating my opinion out of uniform in a forum not sanctioned by the Military. The only legal requirements I have that limit my expression is associating with known radical groups that support the overthrow of constitutional government. Neither I or anyone else in the military has a contractual obligation to lend verbal support to "official propaganda".
2) You've spent this entire conversation talking in broad terms with no supporting evidence yet you consider yourself "enlightened" and on the right side of the argument. Then you cap it off with an even more blunt to the point opinion, "Fuck our foreign policy", but then have no viable solution or give a point by point dissertation on why our foreign policy is flawed. Yet you want your opinion to be considered "enlightened, reasonable and sound".
3) There is no martial law here in Afghanistan or Iraq. Every day I work with the Afghan National Police and Army. They take the lead on all missions, whether its humanitarian assistance or lethal effects. Even in the hottest sectors of Afghanistan there is no martial law or curfew right now. The Afghan National Security Forces, led by Afghans and advised by NATO plan out and take the lead on most missions. Fives times as many Afghan Police and Soldiers have been killed by Taliban in the past year than NATO Soldiers defending this country.4) In Iraq, the Iraqi Army has taken over security and control of Al Anbar and Southern Iraq and they will soon takeover Baghdad and the rest of the Sunni triangle. We've been working hand in hand with Iraqi security forces for the past year and have virtually destroyed Al Queda in Iraq as an effective fighting force. They still have the ability to conduct spectacular suicide bombings that kill alot of innocent civilians, but that too will subside in the coming years. We aren't the ones killing innocent civilians, its the Al Queda and Taliban fighters that are doing that in order to instill fear in the population that the central government can't provide security. Its a common insurgency tactic perfected over hundreds of year of warfare. In the past few months, here in Afghanistan, NATO forces have been indirectly or directly responsible for less than two dozen civilian deaths, all accidents or the result of Taliban using them as human shields. If we were out there exterminating civilians, you would be hearing about it in the news. And believe me, the allied European countries that are part of the NATO security force here would be pulling out if that were the case, because we all know the Europeans don't have the stomach to fight with conviction anymore.
5)There's nothing abstract about what "might" happen when its very apparent the lack of a heavy handed intervention and foreign policy against Al Queda and Radical Islamists in the 1990s clearly resulted in the 9/11 attacks. There's nothing abstract about people on the 70th floor of the World Trading Center having to make a decision whether or not they're going to die by burning to death, smoke inhalation or leaping to their death. A hands off, inconsistent foreign policy towards terrorism and Radicals in the `90s resulted in 9/11. Disengaging from Afghanistan after the Soviet's pulled out was a mistake and those mistakes continued to build up as we ignored Bin Laden's threats, the Embassy attacks and the USS Cole suicide bombing. I don't see how any clear minded individual who studies culture and history can be confused as to what happens when Radical Islamists or any other Anti-Democratic Radical for that matter is left to his/her own devices and allowed free reign to conduct a campaign of terrorism.
6)This sterotype that the majority of those in the military lack college education, too poor to afford it or not smart enough to get into a college is unfounded and a disservice to these men and women. Over 95% of US Military officers have a college degree. In the Army you can't easily get promoted to Captain anymore without having a bachelors degree. 75% of field grade officers have at least one Masters degree if not two. 95% of General/Flag officers hold a Masters. On the enlisted side, from my own personal experience, half of my Soldiers have either a Bachelors degree or are working towards one right now. Many of the Soldiers I work with had the opportunity to go to college but chose to serve in the military first and utilize GI Bill Benefits afterwards to keep down the costs of student loans. Just about every senior NCO has at least an associates if not a bachelors degree. In the Special Operations community, our most elite warriors, the vast majority of the NCOs have a bachelors and many have Masters degrees as well. These aren't uneducated rednecks, these are warrior scholars with a healthy understanding of history and constitutional government.In summary, you're a fool who lets hate, bias, arrogance and smugness dictate your opinions and actions as opposed to reasoned though. You're jumping on the same bandwagon as all these other idiots who love to hate America even though you enjoy its freedom and liberties everyday with a casual lack of concern and thought into how those liberties are secured on distant foreign lands and seas, not just Iraq or Afghanistan, everyday while you go about your daily business of talking condecendingly on a message board about things you have no true thoughtful understanding of. Good Luck with this way of thinking and life. Nem -
If someone paid me 1000 dollars to run, unnanounced, naked and blindfolded into the middle of a busy freeway, and I was struck by a car, would I also be able to claim wrong place, wrong time dibs? Pearl and Berg knowling put themselves in incredibly dangerous situations where the consquences were well known, or at least should have been for anyone undertaking their tasks. Otherwise, you would be better served to use Ignorant, rather than wrong place wrong time.
-
The Consequences were not well known, there was no precedent at the time for those two cases. Pearl was kidnapped in Pakistan in 2002, it was the first time a western journalist has ever been captured and murdered like that in Pakistan.
Berg was captured in April 2004 and beheaded, he was the first contractor to be kidnapped and killed for the purpose of propaganda. His was the first in a series of beheadings comitted by associates of Al Zarqawi in 2004-2005
-
You can watch videos of soldiers and aid workers being beheaded and tortured by Shipped In Jihadists that predate Pearl and Berg. Not to mention the photographs of tourits and missionaries who ran afoul of abu sayaff. Even without the precedent of beheadings, going to work in an extremely violent and dangerous place where you are a despised individual is obviously risky. Hence the large payment incentives. If a group of muslim extremists asked my jewish self to get blindfolded and get in a car with them, I would politely decline. Just as if someone offered me a great deal of cash to go do the armies job in Iraq in the middle of an incredibly volatile occupation, I would also politely decline. Unless I really needed the cash. I don't think offering up stupid and/or risk taking individuals as an example for ebonic plauge really helps. You probally should have thrown Theo van Gogh's name at him as an example of someone whose freedom were trampled upon by knife wielding muslims in the almost complete safety of a peaceful, liberal society.
-
I've always found it strange that the term antisemitism applies only to Jewish people.
-
All soldiers know the Stop-Loss provision when they sign on.
Pretty soon we are going to be making movies about how poor soldiers have to go to boot camp. -
ok so i guess we are to assume that infantrymen deployed in the field can sit online and post all day on the internet..... so much for "real perspective"...lots of these kids that joined the military after 9/11 joined because of fighting for their country in the wake of a "supposed" terrorist attack...im sure lots are regretting joining, especially since theyre in a country we have no business being in fighting a war no one except the republicans care about....i actually was in the army...had to get discharged on a hardship...but im glad i got out when i did..that was 1989..not too long before the first irag war..and i dont know how much things have changed since then but "stop-loss" was not explained at all..maybe it is in the contract but they run u thru that paperwork so fast that u wouldnt have time to read it if u could...which would be the only way to know.....before stepping on the soil of a foreign country to defend its populace from evil we should make sure there are no homeless and starving americans in this country and make sure every tax paying american has health coverage....screw the world..we should just take care of our own...it makes me sick every time i hear that theyre flying in some woman or man from some third world country to give them an experimental surgery for free while joe shmo working his life away in a crappy job paying taxes and has no health care and dies because this country would rather save a third world idiot and defend a country that dont want protection rather than watch after its own citizens...im not alone in thinking that we should leave the rest of the world alone and theyll leave us alone..
-
Something like this needs at least two good battle scenes to make it worth it to me. If not it's just a wah wah wah movie for me.
-
GET IT RIGHT
-
So don't give me that "soldiers are obligated" nonsense. The nazis were obligated too.
-
1.4 mil on friday night, should finish around 4 mil for the weekend at number 7.
You've been pwned, err, stoplossd. -
Actually man we are sitting on the internet posting. As much people here that are fighting and dying there's people sitting in this country stuck on base's like Camp Victory in there hooch's stuck working aid stations. Stop loss (the actual deed) sucks but it is what it is. You sign for 4 active 4 inactive depending on the contract. Just sucks when your supposed to get out march of last year and have been sitting in Baghdad for the past year and still got 90 more days before you can see U.S, soil. You miss home and it starts to hurt so much. You lose fiancees cause they can't deal with the time away. Your kids grow another year without you. Life goes on and your in a dream for a while. Shit blows up from time to time you see some stuff that you dont want to see but the worst part is the paragraphs of boredom.... punctuated by comma's of brutality throughout the 15 months your hear....anyways kinda wandered off topic.....
Anyways Im a medic located in Baghdad by BIAP on camp victory and all you guys out there judging this and the inevtitable slander that is gonna come out of someones post, my post, etc. stop and realize that as valid as your opinions are they really don't amount to much until you live it, and even then your opinion is your own. Life is what it is.... -
if you wanna read about something really that will get you pissed off if your against the whole stop loss read about all the Inactive Reserve soldiers that get sent here....sucks to be a critical MOS
-
probably too late, but here's my $.02. i feel for the soldiers, but at the same time this is what they signed up for. of course, they originally did it for college, or they didn't want to work in retail or an office or whatever...but the only reason for a country to have a military force is to fight with, and there's no military w/o soldiers. so the point of soldiers is to fight wars, not to get money for college. i'm sorry that they are fighting a war that no one asked for. my grandfather fought in WWII and came home. he told me that he thought he was doing a good thing by enlisting and going overseas to fight the nazis and fascism, but when he realized that the guys on the other side looked as scared as him he questioned the whole thing. of course, he did what he had to do, and watched out for his brothers as they did for him. but he learned that the guys shooting at him were only pawns, like him. and for the record, he is against the iraq war, just as he was against the vietnam war.
-
thats the same feeling i get novembre...the whole thing that sucks so much is the army is a culture of hate for those pawns..and instills such cruelty in some people....anyways its off topic so i wont get to much into it....put well put man....
-
it's nice to finally have a state side story as opposed to a standard movie flick. as a former soldier though, the story is horribly innacurate. we've had tons of stop losses in our units where i was stationed. everyone gets a fair heads up though. the whole "getting out of the army" thing is at least a 2 week process, and once your orders are cut a stop loss would not happen. now a recall on the other hand, that could.
while I applaud the writer's efforts at trying to tell a tale of the human condition of the war. i just wish she did a bit more research on teh matter first. -
maybe I should start using spell check lol
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 383 total posts 380 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 111 total posts 111 posts
- WTF HOLLYWOOD: SOLARBABIES -- 75 total posts 73 posts
- HANNA's Saoirse Ronan to boss around seven little people -- 71 total posts 68 posts
- Does ‘SNL’ Rhyme With ‘Deschanel’?? Learn Which SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE Vet Hosts After Sexy Zooey!! -- 77 total posts 55 posts
- If the Behind the Scenes Pics of the Day drops her pen, pick it up, but don’t look at her legs or else it will be on your record. -- 54 total posts 48 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 165 total posts 41 posts
- Herc’s Seen Tonight’s Return Of THE WALKING DEAD!! Discuss Also DOWNTON ABBEY, FEAR FACTOR, PAN AM, ONCE, SIMPSONS, DYNAMITE, LUCK, SHAMELESS, BAIT CAR, THE GRAMMYS And More!! Sunday Is Sweeps Day 11!! -- 41 total posts 41 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 500 total posts 35 posts
- Avid Comic Reader Hercules Does Battle With Tedium During Kevin Smith’s COMIC BOOK MEN! -- 28 total posts 28 posts