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A sneaky pair of reviews for DOGMA!
Here's a couple of looks at DOGMA from different coasts... One in New York and one from L.A. all in the past two days... Sounds like they need to screen the film in AUSTIN (Hint hint hint.... like at the Alamo Drafthouse to a drunken bunch of hoodlums!) Hey, can't yell at me for trying... Ok... You can, but you shouldn't. Ok... Go ahead... Yell at me. Sniffle sniffle... Waaaaaahhhhh....
Hey Harry! Last night I had the pleasure to see a preview screening of Dogma. In fact, this was the first screening of the movie in New York.
I know for a fact that there were some producers there, and we all got the obligatory speech...not yet finished, maybe some blurry effects,
possible temp track...the usual. Well, did I enjoy it? Let me just say that Kevin Smith does not disappoint.
I must say straight off, that this is a different kind of movie from Kevin, some risks were taken. I don't think that it will be everybody's cup of
tea (or Christ's blood, as the case may be). More on the religious implications later. This flick is set in an "non-realistic" world (unlike the
realistic world of Chasing Amy). Not only was this a finely written satire, but I could not shake the feeling the entire time that it had elements of
being a faerie tale also. There were, by far some stand out performances...Alan Rickman showed a delicious flare for comedy and Chris Rock
was the best I have ever seen him. He usually annoys the shit out of me, but he played his character with commitment and believability...his
entrance is classic. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck typically play well off of each other, and every one else does a competent job. We see a lot of
familiar faces throughout, and yes, including Jay and Silent Bob. Jay and Silent Bob are, well, ...Jay and Silent Bob! only much more of
them. Style aside, the strength of this movie lies in Kevin Smith's extraordinary talent for dialogue. His writing, no matter how ludicrous or out
there it is (see the Golgathan Shit Monster), it begs to be listened to. This was a subject he was well versed in and interested in talking about,
you could tell.
As far as the religious side of the movie, Smith pokes fun at Catholicism in almost every single way possible (it's so damn easy), but I'll tell
you, it was all to hilarious effect, and he was not doing it simply because. His moral comes through and it is accentuated by this brutal satire.
The movie still needs a bit of cutting. One of the interesting things is the fact that we are sort of thrown into the movie at the beginning, and
most of the heavy exposition comes at the end of the movie.
All in all, I had a great time, and this considering that I'm sick as a dog and spent the last ten hours in line for Star Wars at the Ziegfeld. I'm
told that Kevin will be coming by our countingdown line to hang out next week, and I can't wait to chat with him. Take it easy Harry. Once
again, call me Fingolfin.
And this one is from L.A. last night....
I've been going to these test screenings for a long while (I
believe Big Top Pee Wee was my first one), and I cannot remember ever
having the die-hard desire to see the film that was being screened. Until
today. DOGMA. Century City(LA). AMC. I got there nice and early to make
sure I was guaranteed a spot in the theater. Dogma was towards the top of
my desired films of 1999 list, up there with Fight Club, Eyes Wide Shut,
Mystery Men and a few more I'm forgeting. Anyway, the reason for this
screening is because Fox wants to buy Dogma, and The Weinsteins wanted it
screened with an audience. All the big guns were in the house: both of the
Weinsteins, Tom Sherik (i know i spelled his name wrong, sorry) from Fox,
as well as a bunch more unrecognizable executives. The film seemed pretty
much completed from what I can tell (They are going to show it at Cannes).
It had a score. It had visual effects. And most importantly, it had end
credits.
Overall, I really enjoyed the film. I was not disappointed. The
beginning started off a little slow and confusing, but once you become
familiar with the characters--all is forgiven. This is Kevin Smith's best
directed film yet. His shots and camera movements were on point. His
direction is finally on the same level as his writing. The film was very
well written. I felt there was an improvement between Chasing Amy and
this. The most noticable imporovement was less really big, difficult
words, that I always felt the actors seemed to stumble over. It made the
movie easier to believe. Smith is dealing with God, Angels, Demons,
Prophets. All beings most people don't encounter on an everyday basis. In
the acting department, everyone did a great job. Lots of cool little
cameos. Jay, once again, steals the show (he should have his own sitcom).
The audience loved him.
I'm Jewish and not overly religious. I have my own beliefs and
ideas about god and stuff. This film did not offend me. It didn't seem to
offend the audience either. I don't know any deeply religous Catholics, so
I can't really predict how they would react. I didn't think the film
bashes or makes fun of religion. It questions the beliefs that have been
taught from the bible since it was written. I don't see what the big deal
is. Disney is a bunch of wimps.
Dogma was
great. It was entertaining, funny and very thought-provoking.
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This film is 2nd on my want to see list....first is Eyes Wide Shut. I cannot wait to see how K.S has grown as a Director and writer...if the latter is possible.
Lets hope the Catholic Church does make a big deal of this film.
It did wonders for Life of Brian, and Last Temptation of Christ.
Can't Wait to See This Film...
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I can
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Kevin Smith is without a doubt, the best screenwriter working today. His characters are real, his dialogue is brilliant. I could recite damn near every line from "Chasing Amy" which was by far his best work. Until now. I've read the "Dogma" script and it just rocks. I can't wait to see it. Now if only Time Warner would give the go ahead to his "Superman Lives."
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I've heard that Morrisette appears in this film as God but instead of speaking she has this high pitched shreak... I mean, what the hell is all that about?
Is this for real or have those dark figures in the even darker doorways been misinforming me again.
Does anybody know?
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Maybe I was wrong, Kevin Smith finally learned how to direct? He watched STAGECOACH 39 times or something. Episode One, Eyes Wide Shut, MM, and Dogma. The Summer is shaping up nicely.
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Just out of curiousity: Does anyone know whether Smith is (or was) Catholic?
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For the die hard Kevin Smith fans, I'm sorry to say that I didn't like his Superman script. It was like a two hour Lois & Clark episode. It's a damn shame that the Alex Ford script wasn't used. I caught a review on Dark Horizons, and let me tell you, the actual script KICKS ASS!!!
It's a travisty that WB overlooked something that screamed with the respect Superman deserves and presented sequel potential... all while giving a great story. If you don't believe me, see for yourself here: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2930/supermanmanofsteel.html -
I read this script monts ago and it's second hand predictable twaddle. (Gosh, wonder how long this'll stay up.) Sorry but the idea of God being a woman (he he he) is a hugh, big SO WHAT? The shit monster? has anyone seen South Park? There is really only one truly offensive bit in it -and yes I am Catholic- and that was that the main charachter, supossedly a decendant of Jesus Christ, works at an abortion clinic. When this point is raised in the script pro life people are portrayed as bomb planting gun shooting murderous bastards, and indeed some of them are. But the point was only raised so the writer could rather heavy handedly dissmiss ALL anti abortion view points. Too afraid even to mention a "women's right to choose" in case that started an internal dialouge in the head of the reader. He didn't even try to make the point (from his point of view)that abortions are necessary. Nooooo, he went for the far easier to write anti-abortionists are insane so there view's don't matter. The Last Temptation of Christ is a good film based on a very clever idea of the devil having one final go at making Jesus turn from God. And The Life of Brian is simply a very very funny film written by people who have the talent to grind their axes with style and wit. Not a bad idea for a comedy. Now, am I one of those "religious freaks" or mearly using my right of free speach? Maybe kevin could tell you what to think about that.
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Kevin Smith is a devout, practicing Catholic. That's why his film is in fact, an introspective look at faith and not the overt attack some people would have you believe.
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...valid points but interpretive points, I found the scene in Dogma about the hypocrisy of anti-abortionists and their willingness to kill a fellow human being while they preach about the wrongness of killing a baby. It felt more ironic than a statement against ALL anti-abortionists. Plus in another defence just down the street, in a true satire, the characters must be broad with not much definition (think the Soviet president in Dr. Strangelove).
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I read, Smith doesn't seem like a huge abortion supporter. The reason our heroine works in the clinic is because of a botched abortion that left her unable to bear children after which her husband divorced her. That didn't strike me as a ringingly positive take on all abortions.
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Dogma is going to kick so much ass.
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The Catholic Church says its wrong to abort an unborn child, it says its wrong to use birth control. It says personal responsibility, good decision making and a little self control is all thats needed for a healthy spiritual life and a healthy society. That makes the Catholic faith an easy target for all kinds of critics. If this writer/director is so great a writer/director, why doesn't he look for greater challenges than attaching a people's faith?
I was amazed during the Littleton shoot out how so many people stood up to say "I'm not responsible!" I said then that the only way to solve all society's ill's is for everyone to stand up and say, "I except responsiblity and will make whatever sacrifice needed to bring about peace." The problem is we are not a sacrificial nation. We want ours even if someone else has to suffer for it. Thats why we have abortion. We want the right to sink ourselves in to sex without having to sacrifice personally when those actions cause the beginning of a new life.
I believe in the right of free speach, but with that right comes also the responsibility not to say curtain things. Can we all agree that people of a different color of skin should not have to hear unkind words based on their color of skin? If we could agree on that, we're not that far from having people agree to personally choose not to make fun of or deride a group of people for choosing to believe in the Catholic faith. The people who will have the most problem with this ironically, are the people who say that religious nuts forget about free speach. -
I could be wrong, but it seems that I recall reading that Dogma was actually the first screenplay that Smith wrote. It was made after the others because it clearly called for the biggest budget. Therefore, the comments that Smith's writing has improved over the other scripts is interesting. Granted, after numerous drafts, it is probably not fair to call it his "first" script. But even so, the perceived "improvement" in Smith's writing may have been a result of the reviewers expectations rather than actual improvement. In addition, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that a screenwriter's first work could be her or his best.
On another front, I am disturbed by some of the comments that attribute a maliciousness to the religiously devout members of society and their presumed effect on Disney/Miramax's decision not to release this film. El Gordo, I have no doubt that the so-called "religious freaks" have not forgotten about free speech. I will not drone on about how free speech, in the First Amendment sense, deals with GOVERNMENT regulation of speech and how it has nothing to do with private citizens' efforts to keep certain ideas out of the marketplace. I will point out, however, that any person of faith who has spoken out or will speak out about their feeling that this film is offensive are actually practicing their "right to free speech." The "religious freaks" won that round in the battle for dominance in the marketplace of ideas. Obviously, though, some company will release this film. There will be controversy. It will offend some and inspire others. People will argue about its implications.
Isn't a free and civil society great? -
Smith was RAISED Catholic. That's it. He's not a Devout, nor a practicing Catholic. If he were, he wouldn't have impregnated his girlfriend, and married her late in her third trimester. That belly tattoo of hers must be fucking huge by now.
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DOGMA's hype machine's over- done? This from the denizens of a site who've been beating the dead horse of Babylon 5 with an appetite-for-defication only equal to Wizard's insistence that Valiant wasn't a steaming load of horse apples during the months they were almost owned by the same parent company?
Say it with me, kids. Ninjak sucked. Turok.. same thing. That time-traveling caveman from the addled mind of Harlan Ellison? Sucked. Aliens with little ears and sea shells on their heads? Come ON.
a.) Kevin had the *idea* for DOGMA before CLERKS... but didn't have a draft on paper until after CLERKS.
b.) He's only not devout if you don't call going to one of those monuments to papal greed every goddamn Sunday devout and practicing. Hell, even when I wasn't so jaded about The Church, I only went on Easter and Christmas.
c.) You can have whatever opinion about DOGMA you want, my friend... but I can tell you three things.
One, the script rocked... and that TENDS to bode well for the quality of the film. Two, it's gonna at the very least make good bank on Affs and Damon's faces alone...
and three, it's a far more plausable leap of faith to believe in DOGMA than to believe that JarJar ain't gonna be the most annoying actor this side of Quentin Tarantino.
We shall see, kids, we shall see. -
...soylentphil makes a judgement on Kevin Smith and his wife and the legitimacy of the child in religious terms and then uses the word fuck, ah, nice hypocrisy pal!
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I agree that devout Catholics try to avoid doing some things. I consider myself to be a devout Catholic but I'm not even close to perfect. For those who truely spend a moment trying to know God, you will find him devoid of hate for anyone. So if someone runs a site with a name that says God hates any kind of people then they are only trying to cause the hate that they so obviously caused with the person above. As for Kevin, if he truely loved his God and the Catholic Church, how could he write material that seems to raise abortion to a right and a duty? Only he can answer for his own beliefs. I do remember someone saying that good comes from a store of goodness and evil from a store of evil. Another way of saying it is, let your actions and words stand for themselves. If he wrote it, then I hope he believes it.
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I don't what scares me more your complete lack of logic or your complete lack of spelling in grammar. I have no idea what you are trying to say in your post, it rambles and follows no logic, so what the hell are you trying to say? And what the hell does Aristotelian logic have to do with your point? You give people who have faith a really bad name!
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I am a devout NON catholic who spent his entire junior high and high school career in catholic shools (I blame only my parents). No but seriously, if you don't like the subject matter of the film, stay away from it, don't talk back on the talk backs and generally just go away. Nobody is forcing you to pay any attention to this film, no one is cramming it down your throats or selling action figures at burger king. If you are offended by something that *may* bring to question your thoughts on faith then just go back to the rock you crawled out from under and sit on it. As to the abortion thing, I'm not pro choice or pro life. I'm pro abortion. There's too damn many of us. You don't believe. Then just sit back and watch as war and famine and disease escalate as we continue to fuck ourselves and mess up our environment. This is a classic example of species overpopulation. So, just sit back and enjoy the ride folks, cause the next 50 years are gonna be really fun.
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Religion? Abortion? New Faith? Gun Control? Blasphemy?
Does anyone really care about these issues in a discussion about a what is basically a simple, hilarious comedy?
Not at all.
So stop bringing them here.
I read the script at Drew's Script O Rama, (Where is he? It used to be the best site for screenplays and now it updates once a year.)
and I thought it was one of the funniest things I'd ever read. The characters are great, the story is tight and the laughs are so deep and so personally offensive to some that I cannot help loving this film and I haven't even seen it.
In my eyes Kevin Smith can do no wrong, I love all of his films, his comics and his website. He constantly provides fresh viewpoints on things I would've never thought about otherwise.
There are plenty of places on the Internet to discuss religion. I'm sure you can find some of them and make use? Could you do that? I know that religion is at the heart of this film, but I hate the way every single talk back on "DOGMA" seems to turn into a religious tough guy back and forth. It's tired, because no one has anything fresh to say about religion.
No one, I can pretty much guarantee this 100%. Anything you have to say about God, has already been said by someone else and probably said better too.
So in the spirit of logical and rational debate can we agree this is a film about God and then just leave the Almighty out of it altogether? God and Film. Sure they can go together, but then again some people prefer beastiality and mingling their feces into their food. Would you agree those are matches made in Heaven? (Oh and just to keep in the natural vein of of the AICN talk back, here's the obligatory FUCK! I'm sorry I couldn't work that in anywhere else, I like a good bought of profanity as much as the next guy, but a little constraint would be in order, considering the most prolific user of it here was LaneMyers and now that he's gone and probably planning his own death after TPM comes out, I think we should all learn a lesson that profanity and rational conversation mix about as well as well.......feces and sponge cake.) Thank you for reading. -
First off, I'm Canadian! Secondly, I have a Bachelor's Degree with a double major in English and Philosophy so I know all about Aristotilian Logic (and don't give me the book learning bullshit, bring it in terms that proves you know what the hell you're talking about). Another point if all of what you say is true how come you can spell longer words correctly (proposition, demonstrative) yet have the worst time with the most simple words in the English language (think). Oh that's right, cause everything you're writing is straight from a first year philosophy text book! (Tertio Exclusum, fucking third rule pal, yeah I understand Latin as well! It don't impress me to use a dead language). As far as your point, I'm not sure I understand it in terms of Kevin Smith and his take on religion, there is no failure in Arsitotelian logic evident in the script but maybe you can point it out to me. As far as books I've read, I know what I've read (and understood) and I guarantee they are a hell of a lot more advanced than what you are reading. BTW, my major area of study in philosopphy was semiotics, not dead philosophers!
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"For example there are mathematical schools that reject the redutium ad absurdum as a process to validate a proposition (because that demonstrative process relies heavily in tertio exclusum)" What the hell does mathematics have to do with Dogma? In response to the fact that some mathematical schools reject redutium ad absurdum, yes they do, but others including a number of Italian and French latter day mathematicians and philosophers have embraced it as a way of proving something by breaking it down to it's logical stem and then building theri philosophy up around that stem (check out anything by Descartes for the first example of modern philosophers using the redutium ad absurdum theory of philosophy, or check out Kierkegaard and Nietzsche for a destruction of that theory! Hey, now...the kid knows what he's talking about!
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I can't believe you think that Aristotilian philosophy of logic is the world standard, maybe where you come from, but the rest of the world has realized that sylogisms are to simplistic to use in the modern world! ie) all dogs are furry, cats are furry, therefor a cat is a dog, holy crap is that logical or what!
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Im gonna have to agree with harry on this one, so if the weinsteins are reading this, PLEASE, PLEASE SHOW IT IN AUSTIN!! Ive been in love with Kevins movies since I saw clerks for the first time, oh the memories......Anyway, ive read the script, and think its the best Mr. Smith has ever written, and cant wait to see it
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The Catholic faith isn't criticized for saying that "personal responsibility, good decision making and a little self control is all thats needed for a healthy spiritual life and a healthy society." It's criticized for not practicing what it preaches. As far as I know, only Catholics are trying to kill abortionists. I've never heard of a Buddhist monk molesting prepubescent boys. And I certainly hope I don't have to remind everyone about Inquisitions, Crusades, and other "Holy Wars". "Onward Christian Soldiers", indeed. Tolerance has never been a Christian value. Christianity is based on the idea that only those who believe in Christ can get into Heaven; therefore there must be something inherently wrong and Hell-worthy about anyone who willingly chooses a non-Christian faith. So a Christian believes that only those who think like him can be saved. So naturally, "compassionate" Christians see it as their duty to convert as many people as possible, by wiping out thoughts and ideas that are different from their own. There is no room for variety in God's kingdom. Catholics and Protestants in Ireland kill each other, and have the nerve to insist that their faith makes them more moral than everyone else. The sad thing is that faith is blind; it convinces the believer that he no longer has to think about his beliefs and what they truly mean and imply. Kevin Smith seems to have thought about it, and I hope the movie will inspire others to do the same. --Billy (sheep go to Heaven, goats etc.)
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It's interesting to sit back and read some of the vitrolic, personal, and downright terrified posts that have been thrown up i.r.t. a film that hasn't even been released. It would seem that if one is concerned with the portrayal of ones faith. then one should try to provide a more posative counter example. I've no love loss for people who are de-constructionists simply for the sake of destruction. If you're going to attack something, at least have a reason for doing it, and an intelligent, well thought out way of doing so. Blind, senseless lashing out never really solves anything, or gets a point across. If we find ourselves challanged by something (like a movie) so seriously that it makes us question our BELIEFS then obviously it has been well thought out enough that it has reached something within us. No one, to the best of my knowlege, left the Southern Babtist church because of the depiction of characters in "Porky's 2." If Smith produces a bad product the public will simply not respond to it. Those of you who are trepidous about how this MOVIE will affect the spiritual perception of the Catholic God need only remember that after the Dark Ages, countless Crusades, Witch Burnings, and Jim Bakker, The Man is still playing to packed houses. Hmmmmm....perhaps some people do listen to the message, and not the messengers.
And Nabraska, no insult intended but, there is a HUGE difference between "except" and "accept."
Cheers. -
...hey man, no need to attack me personally! I apologize for my earlier attitude about your language (BTW, about spelling, those in glass houses, my friend). I took six months of studying at the hands of Umberto Eco in Italy so don't even think of insulting my profs. My point about dead philosophers was obviously missed, mea culpa, I meant that those who only quote the classical philosophers are doomed to never be brought into a modern age of logic, where by the way mathematics and logic are now seperate entities and areas of study, as I believe they should be. Be careful on that point, my friend, it is an interpretive thing. You believe in the classical system of thinking and logic, I prefer a more modern, it doesn't make me wrong and you right, or vice versa. You are well versed, I'll give you that, but you make the mistake that a number of literati have made, the belief that old is the best. You give me Aristotle, I'll give Eco, you give me Plato (all right, Plato is brilliant, I'll give you that), I'll give you Sausurre. I personally defer to existentialism in my day to day life and you obviously defer to mathematics and physics. So we'll agree that we don't see eye-to-eye on that. Does that make me wrong or a moron, no, nor does it make you a moron (I apologize if I insinuated that, I just felt that you hadn't explained yourself in a proper manner). Your point has been made, I disagree, but your point is understood. Despite the insults, I think you are quite intelligent and well versed, and I extend the hand of agree to disagree friendship. I also bow to your far superior knowledge of the arcana (not meant as an insult) that is Mathematical Logic!
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May 14, 1999 2:26:17 PM CDT
Null-A? Where are you planning your Y2K celebration and how far
by jason dean
I just read your facinating breakdown of mathematics/logic being dependent and equal and I must say that I have never been more aware of why Dilbert has come to represent Engineers in general right now, than I ever have in my life.
You're blowing a somewhat simple subject out of proportion by dragging mathematics into an already pointless statement made by someone who misunderstood the root argument of most of the names he drops with abandon. (Not you, the other guy.)
By dragging math into it, you've complicated the matter beyond resoulution, because obviously, the opposing debater has no Earthly idea what you're talking about. (I'm not going to lie, I don't either and was told there would be no math on this test. It's isn't what I would call my strong subject.)
I know math is the answer to nearly every question you can formulate, but here's a question for you.
Since you're fairly against the philosophy argument the other debater was making, let's see you define the subject with Math.
Can math define God?
I'm curious as to whether or not it can. There seem to be a great deal of unknown variables and what number exactly represents the basic Heavenly Equation.
I'm joking of course, but think about it. I don't want your answer to 42 either.
Why must every "Dogma" talk back degenerate into a question of Faith? Why can't it just be a MOVIE? -
...I just wanted definition. BTW, Jason Dean, philosophy is interpretive so my interpretation of what others have said is just that, an interpretation, not a misunderstanding of their root philosophy.
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Kroenecker (spelling?) Of what use is your beautiful investigation of pi. Why study such problems when irrational numbers do not exist?
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One's interpretation of philosophy is as open to to interpreation as the philosophy that was interpreted to begin with. So you see, I don't mean to offend either of you, (Jokes aside, you can't take those seriously.) I was just pointing out that bringing mathematics and philosophy into the same discussion to try to define each concept and each other and then try to bring in logic is somewhat dumb.
Philosophy and Mathematics cancel each other out in my limited understanding and I'm not claiming to be Will Hunting here either. Mathematics is a study of patterens in it's base form and Philosophy really never has a pattern other than the time period that limits it. (You can draw many comparisons to philosophers of old to contemporary philosophers, simply because in my humble opinion there are no more original ideas because of the natural habit of man to be influenced by other men. Influence leads to imitation and imitation leads to stale ideas. If this had just started it wouldn't be problem, but it's been moving for quite some time. This is a topic much too large for this statement and I'll drop the issue, but you must see where I'm going with this.)
Math and Philosophy joined are a shaky argument at best. I'm not the best person to break this issue down, but I can see the problem with combining the two.
Mathematics is pure logic, numbers and direct answers.
Philosophy is human thought and when was the last time human thoughts were anything half as pure and direct as Mathematics?
That's my point, I didn't mean to offend.
Can we talk about "DOGMA" now? -
...I'm ashamed! Good points, I'll shut the hell up now!
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Jimmy Dean, are you Lane? Your writing style is similar, and you keep mentioning him in your posts. If you are the notorious LM you might as well fess up, because everyone else will probably figure it out in due time.
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First I think everyone, and I mean everyone, needs to take G'kar lessons (and Yes, I will admit to being a Star Wars fanboy, and a Babylon 5 fanboy, but with reason) in that we have to be willing to laugh at ourselves, and about everything in this world, including faith and religion, since there is even humor in the bible, and about it - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - -
Second, lets drop the devot issue. One man's fanatic is another man's aquantence thatd doesn't take it seriously enough
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Third, whether you believe in God or not, I think everyone will agree with me that religion's original purpose was to both explain the un-explainable and also instill morals in people, since we are thinking an reasoning creatures. Now, whether the explaintion are true is open to debate, but lets all try to respect each other positions. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - - - -Third, this goes out to all the Religous people. Non-Religion people, you can respond, but the question assunes you believe in God and religion. (Actually it is 2 questions) Question 1. Is it a sin to question God? Question 2. Can God be wrong? I want proof, espically if You can find it in the Bible (this isn't a smeer attempt, I am trying to answer this for my own personal faith as well, and would love peoples thoughts on it. - =- - =-- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - -
To Null-A, please, slow down, and explain what the hell you are saying. I really can't follow you, and I would like to follow what you are saying, so please explain what you mean? - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - -- - - -- - - - - - To Eternail, well, I would like to think I am neither, since A. I have major problems with my faith, and am trying to get them answered and B. I actually do try and help people, and not be like Hitler. I am not out to convert everyone to believe in God (maybe that we should Colonize space, but that is neither Here, no there) Also, I know most people against Religion aren't actaully against Religion as voraciously as they are against Christians. I ain't claiming to be perfect, or that Christains are perfect, but if you are against religion, I really wonder if you are against Religion(ie Buddism, Shintoism(SP?), Hinduism, yada yada), or do you think many Christians are Hypocrites? WEll, I do agree many are Hypocrites, but religion does have a good side. Look at Mother Terisa (SP), who did use it for good. (We have had also David Koresh use it for bad things, like most it can be good or bad)
Now the question is is are these believes real, and I think that to simply say he isn't entited to his beliefs or art is completely against the First amendment rights. I agree, I think people need to take responsiblity, but very few people practice it across the board -
I don't understand this utter fascination with this film. The script had incredibly witty diologue but sad to say....was just about the biggest piece of crap I have ever laid my eyes on. I am a Christian myself, not Catholic, and cannot stand the script. I felt sick to my stomach after reading it. He made fun of God, Jesus, morality and many other things I hold to the highest regard. John Woo is filmmaker with so much more talent. He is a Christian. He almost vomited when he read the script. Mission: Impossible 2 will be so much better. http://www.angelfire.com/az/ScarabNET/miindex.html
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First, I am glad we have Freedom of speech, and somebody said people need to take responsiblity for what they say, but most people (religious Zealots included) don't. Anyone seen that MTV commercail about hate? Well, they really sterotieze hate. I was hated in my home town, not because I was black, or because I had a major birth defect(of which I am neither) no. I was hated simply because I wear glasses and am not a huge sports boy. Are we trying to stop this hate? No, and nobody is taking responsibilty for this kind of hate. (Actually, I suppose it wasn't hate, but it sure wasn't nice being harassed for 8 years for no real reasons) So no body is taking responsiblity, not even the catholic Church (look how long it has taken them to take responsiblity to apologies for helping hitler, or what they did to Galeliao (SP).
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God almost demands that we make fun of him, so it will question our faith. Personally, this is the easist kind of attack to fight off, because (at least I think so) he isn't out to convert us, he is simply saying not everyone in the church is preaching what they practice. Also, you mention that he makes fun of the church. Well, most Humor (in fact I almost am willing to say all of it) is INHERANTLY mean. I make a challenge to everyone here. Anyone who has heard of Adam Sandlers Willy the toll-bouth man skit on the radio or MP3? It is very funny on a surface level. But I challenge everyone to look at it from Willy's point of View. See how you would feel if that were done to you. Then ask yourself if it is still nice, funny and hamrless.
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Hey, dudes...I hate to be the big ol' moron around here and all...but...whaaaa? I mean, Plato? Aristotle? Math and stuff? Where the hell did all that come from? I mean, damn dudes...Like...chillll....slow down....smell the flowers...it's all good...life is a box of chocolates.
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It is true that Kevin Smith does ridicule anti-abortion demonstrators in Dogma, having read the script I know this. But it is important to note the Smith also takes his jabs at those going into the clinic to get an abortion.If I did not believe that it was spoiler material I would give a specific example in the script of this. I do not know however what will and will not be cut from the final product of the film however, so the final product may or may not have a totally biased stance on abortion and anti-abortionists.
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Look, for crying out loud, why do we discuss subject matter to such an extent? When this film comes out it will be criticized or praised based on Smith's opinion on religion. This is total crap! We have been judging films based on their subject matter for way too long. We should start judging a film by how WELL MADE it is. A good story is becoming second place to subject matter.
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In response to someone who refuted the fact that Smith is a practicing catholic by saying "If he were, he wouldn't have impregnated his girlfriend." Hmm, does being a practicing catholic also make you an immaculate example of upstanding citizenry, sinless in every way? No, if that were true, you wouldn't consider ANYONE a practicing catholic. You read the bible, Brett? There's this passage I got memorized, sorta fits the occasion: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." If you have never lied, cheated, stolen (or mastrubated, if you wanna go that far) than by all means, judge Kevin Smith. If not, then put down your rock.
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I'm a Catholic, raised Catholic, I go to church every week, turn to God for spiritual help. Am I a virgin? No. Am I married? No. Was I ever married? No. Would I consider myself a practicing catholic? Yes. An earlier post says that a Smith is not a practicing Catholic because he got his girlfriend pregnant. Now, I'm not condoning pre-marital unprotected sex. Wear a condom, damn it. But if you suggest that a practicing Catholic never falls short of the glory of God, that he or she never sins, then a practicing Catholic is a myth. Everyone has sinned. Everyone. If you've ever had sex than wasn't in wedlock and for the intention of creating a new life, you have sinned. If you ever lied to your parents, you've sinned. If you've ever killed a housefly, you've sinned. If you deny ever sinning, you are a liar and have sinned. Now since they is out of the way
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Why Austin? Smith should screen Dogma in Monmouth County, NJ. The home of the View Askew universe. You could come up for that. Visit the Quik-Stop and the Music Store (and more). I turn 21 in a week, we can go drinking. Heh heh...
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One of the biggest clich'es in hollywood (Particularly from CRAPAMAX) has been to isult catholics when you have no story. EXAMPLE "goodbye Lover" portray them as hypocrites,child molestors etc...KS is doing this because he knows his script will suck...If DOGMA was good do you really think disney will drop the film I do not think so...
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Judging by the the size of the talkback here. In which the religious discussion is already taking place (one of Smith's intentions for the movie) this movie will do well.
Smith fans will see it, fans of any of the many stars will see it (I'm going for Janeane Garofalo...), People drawn into the debate will see it, people wanting to see 'what all the fuss is about' will see it. I will be surprised if it fails. As far as the movie itself, Smith can pull it off, even mallrats was good if you take it in the light it was meant.
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