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An Interesting Article About Nolan & THE DARK KNIGHT Is Online At...
Merrick here...
The New York Times has an interesting article about Christopher Nolan & his approach to THE DARK KNIGHT.
Details that caught my eye included:
**At one point, Warners tried to get Nolan to do TROY. Wolfgang Petersen ultimately directed the film...how cool would that movie have been in Nolan's hands? (As a side note: the recent Director's Cut of TROY is fairly interesting...longer, far more character detail, much of its score has been re-edited and re-deployed, color & textural manipulation done across the board, etc.)
**Nolan is directing all elements of DARK KNIGHT himself, no 2nd Unit to speak of.
**As already glimpsed in trailers, Gotham has been re-approached/re-designed a bit from its BATMAN BEGINS appearance:
All the talk of darkness obscures what may come as an aesthetic surprise in “The Dark Knight”: the creepy shadows and gothic Wayne Manor are gone, replaced by sleek towers, shiny surfaces, bright lighting and the vistas of a city with shoulders bigger than Batman’s. “I’ve tried to unclutter the Gotham we created on the last film,” said Nathan Crowley, Mr. Nolan’s production designer. “Gotham is in chaos. We keep blowing up stuff. So we can keep our images clean,” setting a solitary hero against the vastness of Chicago.
CLICK HERE to jump to the article in The New York Times.
It's a fast, interesting read (with a few new pictures, if I'm not mistaken). Check it out!
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too bad about Ledger...
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I have my hands full with one...geez.I really can't wait for this movie, and again, tis a shame what happened to Heath.
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Batman Begins sucked. Still I think he learned a thing or two from it.
By the way, Troy was pretty great. -
I like how even in a series that was made to re-vamp Batman, they are revamping parts of the the revamp! Gotham was new in BB, now its new again! I hope this one is not a snooz-fest like Batman Begins and Batman actually does something in the new one, and Luscious Fox is not the hero again.
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The Dark Knight will dominate theaters in July.
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This is going to be a huge experience for everyone...Ledger's death is bound to dominate, let's hope other factors deflect much of the sadness. This is going to be such an 'event'!
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This movie has a weird tone over it now, I wonder how the crew will react when it releases?
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of Bats and the Joker in the interrogation room. Cannot wait to see that flick. I'm even more pumped for TDK than for Indy IV.
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I've NEVER bitched about this before, but wow is this story late. Don't you guys read the Times?? :^(
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Proman1984 - if you had any credibility, you just lost it.
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So far everything else has changed, why not Gothom City?
Looking forward to this one !!! -
sure glad he didnt waste his talents on that mess Troy
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Coooool!
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Batman Begins sucked and Troy was great???? I can't agree with you on either of those.
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Andy Samberg should play Nightwing in the next one.
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This movie needs to come out now. Seriously what the fuck?
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Can't say that it sounds great.. but I trust Nolan.. Hopefully this will be good for my fakemoney at hsx, just lost a fortune on "#%"#% BMAN2 damnit.
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...sounds like a Roger Moore-era Bond girl...
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Loved Batman Begins, can't wait for The Dark Knight. It sucks balls that Ledger passed, but if Joker is his swan song let's all hope for the best damn song ever.
Bone Movie!
http://tinyurl.com/ytojvf -
And now, no one will ever take you seriously again.....
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I keep thinking this movie comes out in May. I doubt I'll make it till July. Hopefully Indy will tied me over...
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Mr. Nolan, for his part, said he felt a “massive sense of responsibility” to do right by Mr. Ledger’s “terrifying, amazing” performance.
“It’s stunning, it’s iconic,” he said. “It’s going to just blow people away.”
Thank you, Mr. Nolan, good sir. Anticipation is high. -
I'm not sure if this is good or bad. Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't this film called the DARK KNIGHT? Emphasis on the "DARK". Who wants to see BATMAN running around in the daylight? I thought the atomosphere was spot on for the last. How's he supposed to frighten the bad guys? What's he supposed to hang out in the shadows of the nearest birch tree. Somehow I think the whole idea of manbat would be laughable if you saw him in the daytime.
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I’ll never get the hate for this film aside from the fact that Brad Pitt seems to illicit considerable animosity from a certain segment of the population, despite absolutely nailing the role of Achilles with a combination of physicality, arrogance and a smudge of vulnerability. That said, I loved the theatrical cut of Troy but found the recent Director’s Cut to be an epiphany and possibly Wolfgang Peterson’s best film. The movie is darker, at times nastier, and the gore is both appropriate and copious. The level of violence was notched down considerably in the theatrical version, a shame given Peterson’s insistence that the brutality of war be illustrated with unflinching depictions of real violence. Luckily, everything was restored and his ultimate vision preserved but tragically, most people will probably never get around to seeing this modern masterpiece. With an additional 40 minutes added to the running time I was concerned that the film would seem bloated but in fact, as was the case of Kingdom of Heaven, the extended cut actually flows better and gives the viewer a much deeper insight into the characters. Another bonus includes more time for Sean Bean’s Odysseus, who gets an amusing introduction that rings very true to the character. As much as I love and respect Nolan’s work, Peterson did a grand job with TROY.
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Troy suffered from the same problems as Peter Jackson's King Kong: overindulgence and an unfocused storyline that was all over the damn place. I bet that a skilled editor could have wittled down Troy's 3-hour run time into a pretty good, tightly focused 90 minute sword and sandal actioner. Just start the movie with the siege of Troy and include the Achiles and Hector conflict. Everything else is ripe for the cutting room floor including virtually all of Orlando Bloom's scenes.
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Mar 10, 2008 12:31:13 PM CDT
“If David Lean could carry a 65-millimeter camera through the de
by sakurai
Great article... It seems so close yet so far away from now. Its killing me to wait for this one.
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It's an interesting concept from the comics, that I'm glad to see a filmmaker touch on. I recall an issue of one of the Batman titles, as well as an episode of the (good) animated series in which Batman is put on trial by his enemies, with Two Face as his defendant I want to say, which argued that very point of, if there was no Batman would these villains have been villains in the first place. I hope this is a theme (not neccessarily the scenario of the trial) but a theme that's actually explored in the movie, and not just something Nolan is just talking about. -
I'm looking forward to seeing The Dark Knight, I suppose, but the tone established in Batman Begins (let's take this story about a man fighting crime dressed in a rubber bat costume really seriously) still doesn't sit right with me. Don't get me wrong, I've been a Batman fan since I was a kid, but you have to admit it's sort of silly, and the super-serious approach doesn't really work for me.Also, designwise, Nolan just seems so drab and unambitious, and the Batman costume looks terrible.Still, I've loved what I've seen of Ledger's take on The Joker, so that's what is probably going to ensure I slap down my six quid when the film comes out.
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Pitt wouldn't have made a bad batman either. He had the dark tragic hero thing down perfectly. Step it up Nolan, a few people died for this movie.
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Thanks for the laughs.
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add Iron Man and Wall-E to the list and you've just highlighted why 2008 is rocking me so hard. :^)TheLastCleric, the real question about the Troy Director's Cut is do we see some good Diane Kruger nudity?
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that dude could carry everything with those Dumbo ears he had. You ever see those things....
"when I see an elephant fly...." -
Yeah, Batman Begins was woot! awesome!, Dark Knight "looks to be awesome!" and the Matrix sequels sucked and Speed Racer looks like a video game. And you bring up credibility like ANY of us have ANY. Riiiiiiiiight.
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Mar 10, 2008 12:56:23 PM CDT
Petersen wants to remake BULLITT, fuck that guy
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Better than Nolan my ass.
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I have to disagree with you on director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven. I think in that case the additions added so much to the story, that I much preferred that cut to the original. I can't speak to Troy's director's cut, but I didn't like the original enough to give it a shot.
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It's obviously not Homer's fault. It just wasn't a very good adaptation. Two cool scenes, Achilles slaying the big huge dude at the beginning (now that guy shoulda been Juggernaut), and the Hector and Achilles fight. As for the story, it's a pretty limp version of the classic. Maybe it's because he's German, but Wolfgang Peterson doesn't really seem to have an ear for how dialog should sound. The actors look bored, and Orlando Bloom turns in one of the most annoying performances in film history. Yeah, you're supposed to hate the character, but he doesn't have to be so irritating to watch. Brad Pitt was good casting in theory but he's not in the highest echelon of actors that could have made some of that dialog work. Brian Cox and Brendan Gleeson, old reliables, good in their roles as usual, but what a boring bloated mess to put them in. Peterson has been on a shit streak for a while now, and even some of his stronger efforts (aside from Das Boot) feel superficial and glossy. To suggest Peterson is on Nolan's level these days is a bit silly. Come on now. Poseidon? I hope he never gets around to making Ender's Game or Batman vs. Superman. Put Spielberg or someone who understands story on Ender's Game. And kybosh Batman vs. Superman and the Justice League movie while you're at it, and let Batman Begins and the Dark Knight be how it's done..
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you're high, Gwai Lo.
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there are a couple things that kind of bugged me. A) you know all those engineers that designed the tumbler? wouldn't they kind of put two and two together when they saw the batmobile ripping around the city? it's just spraypainted black, the car was a prototype so there's only one... hmmmmmmm... also.. I can't recall the exact specifics but isn't Batman partially responsible for letting the inmates out of Arkham at the end? Doesn't he blow up a wall and walk past a couple of guys, thus allowing them a big hole in the wall to escape from? Memory is a bit foggy on that, but oh well. Strangely I did not mind the far-fetched toxin in the water plot, or the roof driving because without stuff like that it just wouldn't be a Batman movie. It made for some legendary scenes so why complain? Batman Begins detractors often bring up the argument that "Nolan is trying to make it realistic so anything even slightly unrealistic makes this movie suck", and to that I say get over yourself. Put every on-screen Batman (including Adam West in his spandex) in a Royal Rumble with access to their Batmobile and place your bets on who you think is going to kick ass and take names. It's the guy in the urban tank and the super high tech navy seal suit, obviously.
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Mar 10, 2008 1:18:36 PM CDT
Gwai Lo it's called confidentiallity agreements, it's for adults
by stereotypical evil archer
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Christian Bale couldn't go two rounds in that portable rubber sweat lodge!West's spandex breathes, mate! It breathes!
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Mar 10, 2008 1:19:32 PM CDT
Director's Cut of TROY is actually good, not KINGDOM OF HEAVEN G
by stereotypical evil archer
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Yeah right.. Begins is not only the best comic book movie of all time, its one of the best movies to come out in recent years...
My two favorite movie of all time are Batman Begins and Heat... I'm sure the dark knight will round out my top three... -
I said it before and I'll say it again, the Joker looks TERRIBLE. His skin is supposed to be bleached, not painted on.
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Yeah right.. Begins is not only the best comic book movie of all time, its one of the best movies to come out in recent years...
My two favorite movie of all time are Batman Begins and Heat... I'm sure the dark knight will round out my top three... -
Yeah right.. Begins is not only the best comic book movie of all time, its one of the best movies to come out in recent years...
My two favorite movie of all time are Batman Begins and Heat... I'm sure the dark knight will round out my top three... -
was flawless in my opinion... I would not change anything.. I completely trust chris nolan.
The dark knight will be the best movie of the year! You heard it here first!! Well.. maybe not first, but mark my words.. -
The Joker isn't supposed to look like anything other that what the guy adapting the story makes him look like, you big gay comic fan. There's no fucking rule book. Go back to jerking off to guys in spandex shooting their heat vision at space aliens in the Justice league movie, faggot.
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Begins already tinkered with the Batman we know from the comics, so it's no surprise they're playing around with The Joker.At least it's not an ageing, portly Jack Nicholson this time, right?
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Mar 10, 2008 1:33:10 PM CDT
Armando, Katie Holmes is in Begins, that sucks
by stereotypical evil archer
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Also, we all know that what really makes him The Joker is the face-paint covering his mustache!KERPOW!
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How can anyone complain about Heath's Joker?? This guy looks fucking amazing.. Even better, his performace it said to be amazing.. And yes, better than jack's by all account so far..
Is it July yet guys? -
#1---KATIE HOLMES. Maggie Gyllenhal will ROCK!. Kate Holmes looked, without a mask, like what the scarecrow did WITH a mask--lazy beady eye sockets. Sorry, but she was ugly with no personality or chemistry. The only weak point in an otherwise stellar movie. I'm interested in seeing the set redesign for the Dark Knight, however. After all, most exteriors were still shot in Chicago. Batman Begins, like Burton's original, both had the balls to have a few daylight scenes--so I'm curious to see what kind of re-design will be done. I'm also curious to see how they're rebuilding Wayne Manor, as well as handling the secret-entrance & batpole issues.
As for the original batmobile---you'd think that Lt. Gordon might have noticed something like a "Wayne Enterprises" logo on the dash, seats or whatever. I'd think the inner parts would be traceable if not substantially modified. That being said, if engineers (other than Edward Nigma) recognized the batmobile as their work, heck, they're nerdy engineers--the most reliable of the bunch. No problem!
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"Holy shit, Batman stole our Tumbler, does Bruce Wayne know about this!?" Like that one part in Spiderman 2, I always thought that was hilarious as hell. I'm more upset about Batman being on tv and in newspapers. He's supposed to be an urban legend, but I guess that isn't very realistic in this day and age, but then again it's not really realistic for Batman to survive long as a celebrity either, oh well.
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that wayne manor wont be in this movie because its still being rebuilt.. Bruce lives in a sleek penthouse in downtown chicago... I mean Gotham..
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was probably built by Lucious Fox...
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Maybe that's what's missing from Nolan and Goyer's vision of Batman: fighting sharks. Also, Bat shark repellant.Clearly, Batman could never be as good at shark fighting as LL Cool J, because LL was not restricted by a heavy rubber costume and, of course, is also hard as hell (battle anybody he don't care who you tell).
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Plus Batman can't make a mean souffle like LL.
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In the first paragraph of the article - "A few stories overhead, a stunt double in a familiar black-caped costume swings from a hoist, slamming into a window in a Mies van der Rohe tower that we shall imagine is Gotham City Hall. A noose is around his neck, a knife plunged into his heart." The meaning is clear: Batman, or at least his döppelganger, is dead. Any guesses of what has happened and who the döppelganger is?
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I wish I was joking... The phrase "whoever wins we lose" never had so much meaning...
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Dont get me wrong Katie Holmes is an ugly broad, no doubt. But that Maggie Gyllenhall......even uglier! Chi-Town will Rock!
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I think the doubleganger is just some random guy trying to be like batman... The big question is who killed him? Joker, the Mob, twoface?? Thats what I want to know..
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I am fucking board at work right now...
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If your last name is Heinrich, please go get yourself traded!
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I mean bored... lol
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got a message on my phone from Aron Eckhart as Harvey Dent. I hope the new Dark Knight trailer comes out really soon.
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didnt think he'd really call anyway
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would have traded their entire team for Kobe if they were smart... GO Lakers!
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It confused me at first... Hello, this is Harvey Dent.. Wow... Brilliant marketing!!
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do a batman viral next...
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Thanks for reminding me 'bout that. just threw up a little.
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Also, we must bear in mind that LL Cool J walks with a panther, whereas Batman just has Robin.P.S. Mutated sea bass - is that an Austin Powers reference?
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but I must admit, It would have been cool to see him in that red bulls jersey with #24 on the back... The jordan comparions would have been nuts...
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Yes, and they are ill-tempered.
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The complaints over the Joker not having bleached skin illustrates just how superficial people can be regarding this character. The fact that the Joker in Nolan’s film has painted skin is incidental. What matters are the performance and the fact that a talented actor channeled some dark energy to play the Joker as never seen before onscreen: deeply unhinged, anarchistic, and completely without empathy. Ledger looks to have captured the nuances of a wildly manic and completely insane clown in a realistic and chilling manner and that means far more to me personally than agonizing over the permanence of his skin color.
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Theoretically, she would love Cool J. So wouldnt even bother trying to eat him.
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Aaron Gray!
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on katie holms sucking... But for some reason she didnt bother me in Begins... Maybe it is because she was not in in very much???
I think Nolan just kept me so interested I didnt mind her. maybe the rest of the cast was just so darn good, I didnt notice.. -
The new punisher movie will be any good? It comes out in September..
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sounds pretty darn dark.. a guy hanging from a lamp post with a knife in his chest?? Could it be rated R?
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it has to be PG-13, but man that would be cool if it was rated R with a little more violence and even darker tones
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Is not right for the part anyway.. But Maggie Gyllenhaal? I love her work but she's extremeley bad for this! It's like casting James Gandolfini for Robin, great actor, bad part. And the more I think about it, making Batman "lighter" is like replacing Katie Holmes with Maggie Gyllenhaal!? Why?
It would be fun to have Katie Holmes back and Tom Cruise as the Joker, hey, they could use that Oprah-clip..
(Spoiler) And is the ending going to be like the comic it is most reffering to? Joker telling the complete joke he started earlier..? If so, when Batman laughs, can't you please make him laugh up a little snot thrue the mask, it would sure make me puke thrue the nose of laughter, and laughter is never wrong.. -
I never saw Gotham has being a wide expressive city. ( Thats Metropolis.) gotham was the city with the nightmares,the shadows, and the filth. But this will be good. I am already thinking about what i want for the thrid Bat movie: Matches Malone, the Bat gas modified from Dr Cranes fear gas, the full Batcave with the lab. The nascar beastmobile ,2Face in full madness,Zsazz becoming the serial killer that the Bat tracks down. And the title for the third : Shadow of the Bat....
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Naah, that's silly. "Batfart", you can't have that in the movie.
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It makes him more insane that he chooses to look like that as opposed to falling in acid and SOMEHOW coming out like a green-haired Michael Jackson. Makeup is the best decision they have made. There IS no Joker canon. There IS no God or everlasting life! There IS no Hobbit movie due to the greed and retardation of New Line. There IS no way the new Hulk won't suck, despite containing Norton, explosions and shit. There IS every possibility that I have my throbbing cock in my hand at this very moment, but you'll never know.
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It makes him more insane that he chooses to look like that as opposed to falling in acid and SOMEHOW coming out like a green-haired Michael Jackson. Makeup is the best decision they have made. There IS no Joker canon. There IS no God or everlasting life! There IS no Hobbit movie due to the greed and retardation of New Line. There IS no way the new Hulk won't suck, despite containing Norton, explosions and shit. There IS every possibility that I have my throbbing cock in my hand at this very moment, but you'll never know.
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they bring in penguin in the third movie as the arms dealer that was previouly reported..
Phillip seymor hoffman or bob hoskins would be perfect for the role.. -
they bring in penguin in the third movie as the arms dealer that was previouly reported..
Phillip seymor hoffman or bob hoskins would be perfect for the role.. -
What? Is Harvey Dent behind this?
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Batman 1989 is my favorite Jack Nicholson role. I don't care how old or "fat" he was for the part. His origin is more effective, and he really just steals every scene. For me, Batman wasn't a Micahel Keaton movie as much as it was a Nicholson film. He was truly the consummate Joker. This new film seems just to go for shock value. Just because a movie is "dark" doesn't mean it's good. It seems every work of art (movies, television shows and books) are rated based on dark content. If it's too light hearted, it's cheezy, but if it's dark, macabre and hopless, it's a freckin masterpiece.
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Batman has had about a billion different versions of the Joker.
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I agree, there is no one definitive portrayal of the Joker. I look at different actors versions of characters as variations of the character, not unlike the various interpretations different writers and artists have given the character over the years. -
Hamill, Nicholson, Ceaser, Ledger. They all rule.
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Mar 10, 2008 3:49:45 PM CDT
Is the Dark Knight railer before 10,000 BC online anywhere?
by dirtsandwich
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that was out last year.
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Is The I Am Legend one.
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With uncluttering Gotham, and removing some of the shadow. You reveal the absurdity of some guy dressed in a batsuit even more. Wayne matches the city in terms of his Batman persona. If Gotham becomes Chicago it's just not going to make any sense thematically.
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Sorry, I had to.
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They couldn't afford to go over
all the original filmed location stuff with CGI mattes and 3d CGI replacement buldings. That, or they decided against it to save some $$$$$$.
Soon it will be cheaper to hire CGI actors over real ones... -
when we gonna get a thundercats movie up in he'ah?
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We are talking about the fear toxin that the Bat has. Read the bit in The Dark Knight Returns where we see the bat use the military hallucinogenic on 2Faces men at the helecopter giving them post traumatic stress disorder. insane nuts scary type shit.
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Nicholson's performance was, relative to the actor's talent and skill, the laziest, muggiest piece of shit I've ever had the misfortune of suffering through. Jack was looking for his paycheck in the worst way... Sithdan, you must have the worst sense of humor ever if you thought Nicholson's Joker was the least bit good (let alone the man's best work--ever seen ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST?).In fact, Burton's BATMAN was mediocre at best, particularly compared to the mostly excellent BB. Deal with it.
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It's one of my favorite Nicholson movies. The entire cast of Batman 89 was awesome. The movie is a classic.
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Is a nice little movie, but lets face it, it has not aged well at all. And I definitely agree with Nicholson's mugging. An actor of that caliber (Cuckoo's Nest, anyone?) could of, and should of done so much more with the part then play what everyone expects of him. That's why I appreciate Ledger's portrayal (or what we've seen of it) all the more.
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I had heard that he was upset he wasn't chosen to be The Joker in The Dark Knight.
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A major flaw with the original film is how much Gotham lacked personality. Much in the same way you can tell when Vancouver is standing in for new York, Gotham in Batman Begins was clearly just a dirty Chicago and didn't have it's own original identity. Sad considering I consider the city a chracter all it's own. The city is called GOTHAM for nothing Mr. Nolan.
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The city ISN'T called GOTHAM for nothing. There.
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when he's playing hammed up versions of himself. Even THE SHINING, for all its glory, would've been even better if Jack had just turned down the dial a few notched in a scene or two. Of course, his work in that film is pure genius compared to his completely embarrassing turn as the Joker. Don't get me wrong: I've always been a big fan of Jack, but I prefer him when he actually gives two shits about the film he's in.BATMAN 89 is overrated--period. It's not a terrible film (when the ridiculously exaggerated Nicholson isn't smelling up the place onscreen), but--beyond some nice visuals--it's not very good either. Burton imo should stick to what he's best at: films of pure, quirky whimsy (e.g., THE NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS or EDWARD SCISSORHANDS). Whenever he deviates from this formula, his films fall flat without exception.
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Troy was pretty great." I agree that this should be a new TB catchphrase. It's the single most inane sentence I've read for quite some time. Well done, Proman84.
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I like random absurdity and creative idiocy of "By the way, Troy was pretty great."Let it be!
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now that was Jack's worst role ever. shame on you. signed Osama Obama.
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makes it a true director's movie. never understood the second unit on other films. meant it was someone elses vision too.
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you cunt.
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it'll always have its defenders (no offense, Tom). I guess I'm a bit of a classic lit snob, but I've gotta say that BB was imo a really good film with some warts--but certainly tons better than either one of Burton's attempts. And, yeah, waaaay better than......Troy.BTW, Herb (great pseudonym--fellow Lovecraft fan here): check out the Speed Racer TB. I think the best use of the quote may be to make a strident, potentially offensive, holier-than-thou movie related observation and follow it with "By the way, Troy was pretty great."
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but my God he phones it in sometimes, even on really big projects. Anyone see Poseidon?
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89's started the cinematic darkness/darkening of comic book characters. Sure Frank Miller publication was way darker, but before this Batman on screen was campy as hell.
I even remember Burton's joke too the fans at large about Robin being in the sequel. He made a poster with Paul Rubens's as Robin- just to show the fans at large how gay the concept was.
No Bat's 89 (It's theme song still kicks BB ass!)Means no X-men, no Spiderman, no Spawn, none of it!!
I think you guys look at the original movies as a whole. Just like the prequels ruined star wars for many the last two entries in the franchise ruined and tarnished the look and feel of the first two films for many fan's.
Let's be honest here..
Joel Schumacher fucked over Batman- Not Tim Burton....
And Jacks Joker was his own.
Like Romero's is Romero's and Heaths is Heath's.
I can do Heath's laugh as the Joker too a "T"
It's not very easy too do... It's like trying too pull off the most powerful Yeeeehaw you've ever heard- but it's a laugh. I can do it with greater ease when I'm speeding past someone in my car or cutting them off. It's like theres some sort of tense sadistic nervous energy behind it when you get it right.
Knowing this, I know Heath did something great with the role, but you all need to stop saying shit about 89 Bat's and Jack's.
It started the trend and sorta redirected it as well. Every Superhero film after it, modeled themselves around it too some degree. It got worse when Burton walked away. It was getting better before he left! -
When you're in the cinema, you have to do the laugh right when the movie starts. That'll set the mood.
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Mar 11, 2008 12:38:45 AM CDT
Shouldn't 89 Bats been called "The Joker: featuring Batman?"
by stinkyfingerz
I mean seriously the Joker had much more of a story arch than Batman. Plus the whole 'Jack Napier' and The Joker killing Bruce Wayne's parents is mind numbingly annoying. I met somebody who didn't like Batman Begins, because he honestly thought the Joker killed Bruce's parents. That is why Batman fans get annoyed with the 89 Batman. Oh yeah, and by the way Troy was pretty great.
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story. But at least Batman killed the Joker at the end of the movie and didn't say, "I don't have to save you."
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Mar 11, 2008 2:52:16 AM CDT
The Joker killing Bruce's parents is not less ridiculous
by industrykiller!
than Ras Al Ghul training a young Bruce Wayne to be Batman. You don't get to pick and choose which origin fuck ups are worse than others. They're both heavily flawed origin stories.
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I'm going to bring Troy back into this, but the interesting thing is comic books are now the new mythology. Homer's telling of the battle of Troy is very familiar (to some at least). In today's world, the stories of Batman, Spiderman, Wolverine are known by everyone. Now think of all the theatrical and film interpretations of Greek Mythology, especially Hercules (Heracles). You got everyone from Kevin Sorbo playing him in a syndicated tv show to Tate Donovan playing him in the Disney musical. Not to mention the plethora of other movies telling the story of the big guy. But when watching the Disney movie, could you imagine yourself saying they should have gotten Sorbo to do the voice? Hell no! We don't do that because we view the different films as different interpretations of an iconic character. We should do the same for Batman and the Joker. The Joker is bigger than Jack, Heath, Mark and Caesar. That's the wonderful thing about the character. These actors just interpret this character that everyone has some sort of knowledge of and put their own twist on things. There's room to love both Burton's Batman and Nolan's Dark Knight.
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Because is Willow Score!
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i will always remind you of this. Ra's training Bruce was a brilliant change and one I welcome. Much more profound that Bruce was trained by his deadliest enemy who also taught him in an indirect way how he needed to think like a hero. Seriously I would love to see your personal life, all points to you being a boring cunt.
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That's right it is, LL. You've been making the tears rain down like a monsoon.Batman, is your hat like a shark's fin? No, of course it is not. Jesus, mate, it doesn't even look like a bat's head. How the hell can you expect to fight sharks better than Uncle L?
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http://tinyurl.com/2grxoz
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Well, I dearly hope that the chases and all the other 2nd unit stuff will look better this time...
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...don't forget that...it was pretty lame from start to finish. I mean HOW MANY TIMES do we need to see Batman's origins? Katie Holmes...flat out awful...Bale's funny strangled voice once he puts on the Bat-Cowl: hilarious - sounded like he was choking down oatmeal the entire time. The action scenes: incoherent, maybe the WORST action scenes to ever make it into a major studio blockbuster. Nolan has no clue how to stage or film action. And what was with the lame-ass ending? The film SHOULD have ended with Batman and Gordon on the rooftop - but no, that horrid, clumsy final scene at Wayne Manor ends the movie. Just bad. Bad moviemaking start to finish.
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While I disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it.
...Did you think Troy was pretty great too? :) -
And Jack sucked harder than he has before or since. Deal with it, Pilgrim.
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and here's why...
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Yeah, I've seen Cuckoo's Nest, but it wasn't my favorite Nicholson pic. Maybe it's childhood nostalgia on my part, but I loved Batman '89. At least the Joker was given a decent origin, not some idiot running around with paint splashed on his face. Besides, the real reason Ledger is being already lauded for his performance is because he's dead. It happens all the time with artists.
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Was being applauded for his performance back in DECEMBER when we first saw the trailer....dude died in JANUARY....way to keep up with things.
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I'll give you the fact that Katie Holmes flat-out sucked in BATMAN BEGINS. I'll even concede that some of the hand-to-hand combat action scenes were difficult to follow. But that's really a stylistic choice and one that plays into the fear aspect that is central to Batman's character.But...did we even watch the same movie? Because BB does end with the Batman and Gordon rooftop scene. Not the one at Wayne Manor. And as for Bale's/Batman's voice, that is consistent with Batman canon - he alters his voice to sound more threatening. It's all part of the theatrics of instilling fear into his enemies. But I realize that concept may be too difficult for you to understand since the film probably went right over your head.
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Ra's Al Ghul training Batman not only is not canon, but it totally dismisses the origin of Batman wherein he becomes a hero through personal turmoil, grief, epiphany and enlightenment. BB was a decent movie, but the origin story it told was quite flawed. Not to mention the switch between Watanabe and Neeson as Ghul was pretty weak. I'm looking forward to the next movie for Ledger and just moving on with Batman sans origin.
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Batman trained himself in Kane's origin. He didn't go to no Tiger Ghul's Himalayan School of Martial Arts.
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Sweetness!
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...he was playing Jack Nicholson, not the Joker. The Joker really isn't terribly funny...he's NOT the Riddler. He's a psychotic mess that finds the absurdity of this world hysterical and can't understand why no one else does. In short, he's a lunatic. I LOVED Tim Burton's Batman...but it's HEAVILY dated. It just don't stand up anymore...it's almost like there's some fundamental immaturity in the story. It's hard to explain...but the last time I saw it I was fast forwarding to the good scenes.
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Batman may have trained himself in Bob Kane's orignal comic in the 40's but the original comics are nothing like its modern interpretation ... we have had hundreds of writers who have given Batman a much deeper and and much richer beginning than anyone in the 40's could have appreciated ... how good can anyone get at something without a teacher who knows how to do it? ...
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m_prevette ... I'm sorry that you have no appreciation of all things cinematic and beautiful ... if action is all you're seeking go watch a fucking bay movie
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