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# Stallion Cornell Reports From The Premier Of Tom Hanks' JOHN ADAMS Miniseries For HBO!

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• March 6, 2008, 7:30 a.m. CST

#### FIRST

by RokurGepta

yay

• March 6, 2008, 7:40 a.m. CST

#### 23c0nd

by RokurGepta

this story isn't appearing on the main page yet

• March 6, 2008, 7:58 a.m. CST

#### Authentic Pus

by wharpua

sounds like a bad band name. Maybe I won't be immediately canceling HBO after The Wire finale after all.

• March 6, 2008, 8:11 a.m. CST

#### william daniels, tonedeaf?

by freydis

no.

• March 6, 2008, 8:13 a.m. CST

#### I have to see this

by BetaRayBill07

Most underrated founding father by far. Read McCullough’s book if you have any interest in history at all- it'll rock your socks off!!

• March 6, 2008, 8:21 a.m. CST

#### HBO and Tom Hanks

by ForkTongue

This is one of the only reasons I won't cancel HBO after the Wire finale. It's probably going to be a long time before we see the Pacific but I'll hang in there.

• March 6, 2008, 8:29 a.m. CST

#### He pronounced it "Quinzy..."

by Fawst

...because "Quint-sea" sounds fucking stupid. I know. I grew up here. Well, next door, in Braintree. Which is a thousand-times cooler of a name. Put it this way, I lived close enough that in 2nd or 3rd grade, our class walked down the street to the Adams's House(s) for a field trip. That will be a thrilling sight for me, seeing them shoot a scene at his home (obviously NOT in Quincy, due to the fact that it's at the corner of a major intersection, across from a CVS in the here & now). It will be pretty cool to see how they envision that area in that time period. Tak Fujimoto is a god. Really looking forward to this.

• March 6, 2008, 8:31 a.m. CST

#### 1776

by rkolker

William Daniels didn't look the part (except in height) of the pudgy, balding Adams, but otherwise his performance in 1776 is masterful. What Hanks is trying to do in this miniseries is different from what the musical was trying to accomplish, and I look forward to a different "read" on this critical point of world history.

• March 6, 2008, 8:37 a.m. CST

#### Sit down, John! Sit down, John! For God's sake, John,

by chrth

Sit down!

• March 6, 2008, 8:52 a.m. CST

by kevinwillis.net

John Adams was not. That is all.

• March 6, 2008, 8:55 a.m. CST

#### Node

by ForkTongue

No love for Band of Brothers? or are you referring to another series like Big Love.

• March 6, 2008, 9:12 a.m. CST

#### Cesar Woljnak = Zeljko Ivanek

by ShiftyEyedDog2

Nice try, though ;)<br><br>He's on IMDb, but John Adams doesn't include him yet, as it only has series credited cast, and not individual episode casts yet.

• March 6, 2008, 9:12 a.m. CST

#### Amazing book!

by Andyb77

I listened to it in my car on the commute. It was extremely engrossing, I didn't want to leave my car! It was pretty interesting to see how much of a tool Thomas Jefferson was.

• March 6, 2008, 9:24 a.m. CST

#### William Daniels was so "Tone Deaf" He Won A Tony Award

by uss cygnus

William Daniels won a Tony Award for his performance as John Adams. He's not tone deaf. His singing was intentionally directed to be slightly irritating because the character of John Adams was "Obnoxious and Disliked" by most of the characters in the show. It was a directorial and character choice, and a brilliant one. 1776 is one of the greatest musicals ever written. If you've never seen it live on stage, you need to see it. The movie does not do it justice.

• March 6, 2008, 9:26 a.m. CST

#### I hope this is more than revisionist liberal propaganda bullshit

by uss cygnus

"This is a country of LAWS, not men." Uh, no. This is a country of government for the people, of the people, by the people. The constitution and bill of rights is not a suicide pact.

• March 6, 2008, 9:35 a.m. CST

#### Revisionist Liberal Propaganda Bullshit

by kevinwillis.net

Even if it is, it won't be nearly as hostile to America and American history and our forefathers--oops, I mean "even-handed and honest" as liberals--oops, I mean "non-ideological fact-based rationalists" want it to be. No matter what sort of revisionist history you see, Cygnus, and are repulsed by, take heart in the fact that 90% of the liberals--oops, I mean "right thinking people"--are going to hate it as much as you, because it doesn't show George Washington and Thomas Jefferson smoking opium pipes while torturing native Americans and whipping their slaves while laughing maniacally.

• March 6, 2008, 9:38 a.m. CST

#### No Country of Laws for Old Men. Heh.

by kevinwillis.net

The point being, the rule of law was a critical point for a country trying to establish a functional constitution at some point, as well as one trying to break with the monarchy and class systems where there were different laws for different people, depending on their position in society. I'm sure it's massaged to make a point how John Adams would have defended terrorists detained in Gitmo. But then, what does that matter? He was an old white man in part responsible for the travesty that is known as America! Damn old white bastard.

• March 6, 2008, 10 a.m. CST

#### I misread that as being directed by Tobe Hooper

by tonagan

Now that would have been interesting.

• March 6, 2008, 10 a.m. CST

#### Tom Hanks and his uncanny ability...

by Kid Z

...to sap all the life out of any historical subject.

• March 6, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

#### uss cygnus...

by Kid Z

... I take it by your alias that you're in the Navy. You guys do a helluva job but... uh... didn't you take an oath to DEFEND the Constitution of the United States of America? Dissing the Constitution seems, I dunno... more than a little dickish and a lot fascist.

• March 6, 2008, 10:10 a.m. CST

#### Node32774: Thanks for Your Input

by kevinwillis.net

"Man, are you a wanker"<br><br>Your contribution is valuable to us, and we will make sure to give it due consideration and get back with you. Thanks!

• March 6, 2008, 10:12 a.m. CST

#### Tobe Hooper is in Talks . . .

by kevinwillis.net

To direct the Philadelphia Chainsaw Massacre. Ben Franklin develops a new tool for American Justice, and British limbs start to fly.

• March 6, 2008, 10:16 a.m. CST

#### TOM HANKS TO OSCARS:

For next year, the requisite band of soldiers who appear with me at every major television and movie event should now be dressed in long blue coats and wearing white powdery wigs.<p> oh and buckles on the shoes please.

• March 6, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

#### Yeah, Kid Z...you're so right...

by IAmJack'sUserID

I mean From the Earth to the Moon and Band of Brothers were absolutely terrible. /sarcasm

• March 6, 2008, 12:09 p.m. CST

#### Finally a good look at the war for american independence?

by Sakurai

Please be true. I love movies like the Patriot, but such depictions are always overly romanticized and fake. Not to mention the terrible historical inaccuracies. I hope this one shows us a more accurate depiction of what it was like during such a crazy period of history.

• March 6, 2008, 12:54 p.m. CST

#### IAmJack'sEtc. - Band of Brothers....

by Kid Z

made WWII seem yawn-inducingly boring. I didn't see From the Earth to the Moon... I was already bored as hell years earlier by Apollo 13.

• March 6, 2008, 12:56 p.m. CST

#### And what's up with...

by Kid Z

...Hanks always producing TV miniseries versions of theatrical releases he's already starred in? What's next? The Michelangelo Cryptogram?

• March 6, 2008, 12:58 p.m. CST

by Kid Z

...Authentic Puss... now on tour with Citizen Dick!

• March 6, 2008, 1 p.m. CST

#### Brane...

by Kid Z

...no, we just support the accuracy of white rednecks being bigoted @wipes... much like yourself.

• March 6, 2008, 2:08 p.m. CST

#### I've been bitching and complaining about a lack of...

by rbatty024

American costume dramas for years (that aren't The Patriot). Looks like someone finally came through. I hear that Cullough's book is good, but he treats Adams like a God, which can be a little disconcerting. <p> Oh, and Brane, you know there are plenty of documented cases of the Puritans having sex with animals, don't you? No culture is perfect, but during the conflict between Europeans and Native Americans the Europeans were the aggressors who stole land that didn't belong to them. During King Philips War there were numerous reports of Europeans raping Native American women and virtually none of the Native Americans doing the same. For the Native Americans this was culturally repugnant. This is not to say that Native Americans didn't commit atrocities, they did, but their culture had certain moral boundaries the Europeans didn't share. For example, the Native Americans might torture someone, but previous to European contact they would never have massacred the large numbers that Europeans did in America and Europe. Face it, during the middle ages Europe was the most barbaric backwards place on Earth. No one has a monopoly on culture or decency, and that goes double for Europeans.

• March 6, 2008, 2:21 p.m. CST

#### Native Americans are not a homogenized people

by Mel Gibsteinberg

I think it is blatantly ignorant to apply labels of "bad" or "good" to all Native Americans. Remember, from native tribe to native tribe these people had different methods and forms of government, religion, and diplomacy. Some tribes sought peace, others sought war and domination. Some were unbelieavably sophisticated in terms of architecture, societal structure, medicine, etc. Other tribes were one step above nomadic herders. I think both liberals, and many ignorant revisionists, get it wrong when they try to make all Native Americans peace loving farmers who only wanted to help, or else buffalo schtuping warmongers who sought the scalps from the whiteman as part of their bloodlust, that and alcohol. <P> The reason there is always so much debate over the "nature of the Native American" is that there is no single nature. They differed like European nations, and any attempt to simply group and label is ridiculous.

• March 6, 2008, 2:27 p.m. CST

#### Good point Mel.

by rbatty024

When I was responding I was thinking of mostly east coast Native Americans, but even that is problematic. The different environments across North America created a myriad of different cultures from the previously mentioned nomadic plains Indians to the Aztecs whose capital city was larger than any European equivalent.

• March 6, 2008, 2:34 p.m. CST

#### I am a small part cherokee...

by Sakurai

My ancestors took the land from my other ancestors and then had sex with their daughters. Now I can get scholarship money and access to terrible free health care. Funny how things work out.

• March 6, 2008, 2:44 p.m. CST

#### Oprah plays Betsy Ross

by skywalkerfamily

Riots in the streets.

• March 6, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST

#### Yeah rbatty

by Mel Gibsteinberg

For the most part, the differences in tribes become smaller as you zero in on regions, like the North East. However, even so, there were still differences between several of the major tribes in the Northeast. It is like saying that the Normans and Saxons were more similar than the Normans and say the Italians. They were all peoples of Europe, and as you zeroed in on regions the differences became smaller, but still they were there. <P> But to revisit the topic, I do find certain complaints against American history biopics as absurd, simply because they don't show all the "evil" things the white man did. When viewed through the lens of our modern day, every dominant culture of the past was barbaric in a sense, as their views of humanity was based more on the nation or people, and not on the individual. Our culture today says the individual is just as important as the nation as a whole, that is a radical departure from nearly every culture in the history of civilization. So to criticize historical motives based on today's philosophy is ultimately futile.

• March 6, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST

#### You don't have to show Europeans as evil...

by rbatty024

to make a historically accurate film. I do think showing the complexity of the times is appropriate. I hated it in The Patriot when the main character didn't own slaves, because I guarantee you that would not have been the case. He would have been undersold on all of his crops if that was the case. So whitewashing history doesn't fly with me. I think adults are capable of understanding a little complexity.

• March 6, 2008, 3:44 p.m. CST

#### BoB

by Alientoast

What the hell is with the Band of Brothers hate? That series was excellent. The handful of WW2 vets I know also thought it was well done and was a pretty accurate depiction of how it was. On a side note, I'm really looking forward to The Pacific. The Western Front in WW2 was Club Med compared to what the Marines were going through in places like Pelilu.

• March 6, 2008, 4:20 p.m. CST

#### I, too, denonce the Band of Brothers hate...

by BizarroJerry

What the hell? That show was one of the greatest things ever shown on television. And it sure was full of unnecessary flag-waving. It just showed what the soldiers went through. They weren't all shown as saints, and nobody's yelling, "For America!" And someone called it boring? I suppose you were expecting an action movie? Yeesh. It was about the soldiers who fought in the war. That was it. No political agenda, no over the top action scenes. They didn't even really show the Germans as being heartless Nazis! *sigh*<p>As for John Adams, from what I've heard of him, he is definitely an unsung hero when compared to Jefferson, Franklin and Washington. I think it's because he wasn't as flashy as the others and wasn't the kind of "celebrity" that they were. I definitely agree that we really have to see a real look at the American Revolution on film. I thought The Patriot would be that film, but it was a Hollywood "blockbuster" instead, demonizing the British, as if the war couldn't be explained without over the top villains. It sounds to me like this will show some of these events as they happened, warts and all. Interesting to see a heartfelt speech from a loyalist guy who doesn't want independence. And, ya know what? The "they were rich, white, slave owners" complaint is so damn old. We get it. Everyone knows it. These men weren't terrorized, abused peasants. That doesn't mean what they did wasn't something special. And if someone has any flaws, we can't praise anything they ever did? I agree that the bad is often overlooked for some romanticization of the Revolution, but we don't have to go the other way and say how terrible the founding fathers all were and how the country they founded is just all a bunch of bullshit. Like no other friggin' countries celebrate their history by focusing on the good. Personally, I don't mind hearing about the less than wonderful parts of these guys' lives. It makes them more human, and I don't think that means they don't deserve any praise. Not to mention the war wasn't just fought by the leaders. I suppose every one of those minutemen were rich, landowners?<p>Christ, you people have got me ranting like Rush Limbaugh here!

• March 6, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

#### Dammit...

by BizarroJerry

I meant to say BofB was NOT full of unnecessary flag-waving. Harry, install a real message board, for God's sake!

• March 6, 2008, 4:23 p.m. CST

#### You're alright, BizarroJerry...

by James Westfall

It's cool. Being pro-America is now counter-culture. It's the new punk. I revel in it alongside you!

• March 6, 2008, 4:45 p.m. CST

by mrmgp

Does this mean we'll hear Ben Franklin saying things like "cocksucker?"

• March 6, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST

#### Great review!

by Reynard Muldrake

Too bad I don't get HBO...DVD, I s'pose. And bonus points for the 'inbetween accents' and 'bad teeth'...ALmost as authentic as '10,000 B.C.' I'm sure. I keed, I keed.

• March 6, 2008, 7:03 p.m. CST

#### Knock Knock. Who's there?

by King_Knut

Go fuck yourself.

• March 6, 2008, 7:05 p.m. CST

#### Knock Knock. Who's there?

by King_Knut

Go fuck yourself.

• March 6, 2008, 8:33 p.m. CST

#### Tom Wilkinson?

Ben Franklin was bald, ugly, syphilitic and about 5'9...Tom Wilkinson is a great actor, but a horrendous choice for Franklin. was Phillip Seymour Hoffman unavailable?

• March 6, 2008, 8:35 p.m. CST

#### USS Cygnus

you gotta be kidding me? you can insert the phrase "liberal propoganda" in ANY talkback. no matter how irrelevant and nonsensical it is. it's almost impressive, like the moron who wrote "Damn you Michael Bay" endlessly. only I think he knew that he wasn't saying anything of any substance...<p>I think even anchorite is tired of you. and that's saying a lot. if you're so moronic that one of the 5 or so conservatives on this site doesn't want you on his side...man, it might be time for a new screenname and a change of pace, kiddo.

• March 7, 2008, 1:47 a.m. CST

#### Will John Adams be banging his slaves?

by skywalkerfamily

Cause he owned Slaves right? Doesn't he have like a billion kids?

• March 7, 2008, 5:46 a.m. CST

#### HANKS + HBO = MUST SEE

by Mullah Omar

I haven't seen a bad Hanks-produced HBO miniseries - the guy is truly using his clout for the powers of good TV. BAND OF BROTHERS was outstanding. FROM THE EARTH TO THE MOON was great. I'm really looking forward to the JOHN ADAMS miniseries.

• March 7, 2008, 7:15 a.m. CST

#### Mullah, don't forget Big Love as well.

by rbatty024

I believe he produces that, which seems like an odd choice for Hanks. It's not historically based or anything. Maybe Tom's been trying to convince his wife that it's time to live the principle.

• March 7, 2008, 9:51 a.m. CST

#### I didn't know that Adams didn't own slaves.

by rbatty024

I wonder how central his farm was to his income. He did live in the Northern states after all (unlike Gibson's character in The Patriot). Not to diminish his moral judgment. I have profound respect for the founding fathers, in all their complexity and contradictions. My favorite has always been Thomas Paine.

• March 7, 2008, 10:11 a.m. CST

by Good_Citizen

John Adams, in addition to being a Farmer was also a Lawyer. While his farm was a success and a source of great joy to him it was nothing when compared to Plantations in the South. He needed far fewer hands to run his farm. He and his wife were against slavery, They had even been presented with a young salve girl as a gift and immediately arranged for her to be freed. However, his dislike of slavery did not prevent him from on occasion hiring slaves from others. While he did pay for their work and the treatment was far better than the average slave could have hoped for I doubt the Masters of these slaves shared the payment given by Adams.

• March 7, 2008, 10:27 a.m. CST

#### That's what I figured Good Citizen.

by rbatty024

Again, it comes back to The Patriot whitewashing history. Although, whenever Mel Gibson makes an appearance, the last thing I should look for is historical accuracy.

• March 7, 2008, 10:50 a.m. CST

#### RE: Adams, Farming and Slaves

by Good_Citizen

I don't think my earlier post gave as good of an account of John and Abigail's character in regards to Slavery. They were fiercely against slavery. Corespondence between them and with others showed how they felt it was a great evil. They also backed up their convictions with action. When duty called both John and Abigail away from the farm they sublet it to a free black couple. In addition, Abigail had arranged for a former slave to attend a Trade School with the other white farm hands. Shortly after the classes began the white men threatned to quit the School if he was allowed to continue on. When Abigail heard about this she called the men to her home and chastised them for such bigotry. The men sheepishly resumed class and the matter was never brought up again.

• March 7, 2008, 11:18 a.m. CST

#### Good to hear the positives Stallion...

by morGoth

...really looking forward to this series if for no other reason than they filmed a lot of it in nearby Williamsburg. Also, I'll get in lin (by my couch) to see anything Hanks does. I hope this approaches or even surpasses the excellent Band of Brothers.

• March 7, 2008, 11:27 a.m. CST

#### "I found both way to steeped in American mythos..."

by morGoth

...since Band Of brothers was about an American combat unit, what on earth did you expect? Same with the space program; Were you expecting Nazi sympathy and glorious attributions to Sputnik?

• March 7, 2008, 4 p.m. CST

#### this looks solid.......

by Samwise Ganja

but is there any news on PREACHER anywhere???? god i want that shit and i want it treated RIGHT....

• March 8, 2008, 12:33 a.m. CST

#### damn,

by Stevie Grant

I'm really looking forward to this show. As far as the whole revisionist/pro-U-S-of-A/accuracy debate... I don't care. If this show is anywhere close to the quality of Band of Brothers, I doubt anyone will care about that after a couple episodes. Or I hope it's that good, cause I really like history and HBO shows.

• March 8, 2008, 2:32 a.m. CST

#### Indigenous - FYI

by Cybyer

indigenous Main Entry: in·dig·e·nous Pronunciation: \in-ˈdi-jə-nəs\ Function: adjective Etymology: Late Latin indigenus, from Latin indigena, noun, native, from Old Latin indu, endo in, within + Latin gignere to beget — more at end-, kin Date: 1646 1 : having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment <indigenous plants> <the indigenous culture> 2 : innate, inborn synonyms see native — in·dig·e·nous·ly adverb — in·dig·e·nous·ness noun

• March 8, 2008, 2:39 a.m. CST

by Cybyer

Going by the above merriam-webster definition of 'indigenous', anyone originiating or produced in America is a native American. <br> Besides, there's no such thing as an "original" American. Human life crawled out of the muck in Africa and spread across the continents. The American Indians got to North America first, but they didn't originate there.

• March 8, 2008, 7:58 a.m. CST

#### Cybyer, you misread the definition.

by rbatty024

You forgot the word "naturally." There is nothing natural about the conquest of North America. I don't know why I'm responding because Node already covered this.

• March 8, 2008, 1:37 p.m. CST

#### Why not Node32774?

by morGoth

Because it wasn’t about Nazi’s (except killing them) or Sputnik. Kinda self explanatory, yes? BOB was based on, y’know, the book of the same name. Furthermore, I don’t get where, especially BOB, was “black and white,” as you say. Many of the troops (interviews as well) showed mixed emotions about killing other human beings, for example. Also, didn’t the German general get the message to the audience, both at home and to Maj. Winters and crew, when he was addressing his troops for the last time that combat creates band of brothers in all country’s combatants? That’s pretty exoteric to me though, as the Spaniard said, “Maybe that words doesn’t mean what you think that word means.” Honestly, I think you’re reading into things (see: engaging filters) quite a bit or brought that baggage with you when viewing those fine series. Esoteric, not!

• March 8, 2008, 6:07 p.m. CST

by Cobbio

Thanks for the review, Stallion. I read McCullough's book a few years ago and really loved it. His writing style is crisp and moves quickly through the snow and cannon smoke of early America. He captured John Adams in a way I'd never read before: as an smart, practical, but imperfect man fearful of human nature. His years in France ended harrowingly when The French Revolution erupted with months of guillotine-messy bloodshed. Pretty powerful stuff. Adams witnessed the brutally dark result of an unbalanced government so upon returning to America fought hard for a three-pronged balance of power. I admired him more than ever after reading McCullough's novel.<p> Can't wait to see this on HBO. If Hanks and company get this right... holy shit will I be happy.

• March 8, 2008, 6:16 p.m. CST

#### Amazing book.

by DocPazuzu

This miniseries is what I'm most looking forward to on TV this year. McCullough did NOT make Adams out to be "a god", and pointed out many of his weaknesses, not least of which being a puritanical streak and a touch of vanity. Considering the astounding achievements of Adams, the courage and moral decency he showed in his public life, he can be forgiven his personal faults. <p> Do yourselves a favor - read the book and marvel at the eloquence and intelligence of Adams and his peers, and shudder when considering the vast intellectual gulf which separates them from the presidential material of recent decades. <p> George W Bush isn't fit to shine the buckles on Adams' shoes.

• March 8, 2008, 6:25 p.m. CST

#### You tools...

by DocPazuzu

...hating on Hanks and HBO need to STFU. Seriously, when you've reached the point where you start hating on From The Earth To The Moon and Band of Brothers you have literally proven that you have no taste whatsoever. And very small penises.

• March 8, 2008, 8:45 p.m. CST

#### Amen Doc...

by morGoth

...amazes me that anyone could even criticize those two series. I'll take your advice and read the book about Adams though it'll have to be after the series. Don't wan't to spoil it or anything 'cuz I've always wondered if the Brits lost that war (notices lobsters crawling out of ears) and if the colonist ever did start a new country.

• March 8, 2008, 9:38 p.m. CST

#### rbatty024

by Cybyer

Depends on what you consider "natural". Humanity has been warring with each other since it began. Animals are constantly fighting each other. Conquest looks pretty natural to me. As much as I enjoy peace and civilization, history does not paint them to be our natural state.

• March 8, 2008, 10:04 p.m. CST

#### Besides...

by Cybyer

My whole point was that walking across the Bering Strait to settle an area doesn't make you any more indigenous to a region than sailing across the sea to settle it. <br> Anyone born in an area is, by definition, native to that area. Otherwise, Native Americans would be historically known as Introduced Americans instead, since they did not originate in America any more than caucasians, blacks, Asians, etc. did.

• March 8, 2008, 11:58 p.m. CST

#### Cybyer...

by rbatty024

do you really think that genocide of a culture is the same as living in a certain environment and adapting to that environment culturally? I think walking across the Bering Strait is more natural than the decimation of an entire populace. During King Philip's War there was an early battle where the Native Americans killed over fifty European settlers and believed it to be the largest death toll in history. In Europe this was nothing. Basically it would have been average as far as deaths in a single battle were concerned. I believe this is enough evidence to show that the kind of devastation Europeans inflicted upon the Native Americans was not "natural." The culture, and hierarchy, of the Europeans had already been established by the time the Europeans reached North America. Unlike the Native Americans whose culture was informed by the North American environment over tens of thousands of years. Do you see a difference between the two, because if you don't then you're blind. <p> Let's try one more. The plains Indians, such as the Sioux, built their culture around the Buffalo. In fact, they used just about every part of the Buffalo as a means to survive. This was because over centuries their culture "naturally" adapted to their environment unlike those who would attempt to replace them in the span of decades.

• March 9, 2008, 12:27 a.m. CST

#### damnit...

by Stevie Grant

This historical accuracy debate needs to end. Nobody will watch a show that makes an earnest attempt to be true the times back then: they were just too brutal, ignorant, and ugly. That includes the Native Americans. The Native American peoples' (especially plains Indians) interactions with other Native American tribes consisted of either a peaceful meeting between tribes... or the random ambush, murder or enslavement of persons. Life was hard and ugly back then. The ugliness only needs to be included to juxtapose the philosophical and political genius of the Founding Fathers and the advancement of North American civilization since that period. It's very easy to pretend that "Native Americans" lived in harmony with nature and each other... but that just isn't the case. And I'm not defending the genocide of the Native Americans by the US Government... I'm just saying that isn't that important to the mini-series biography about John Adams.

• March 9, 2008, 12:39 a.m. CST

#### Stevie Grant, you're right that...

by rbatty024

this mini series does not have to focus on Native Americans. It's about the relationship between the colonists and the British, and it will naturally be a partial picture. You just can't fit an entire time period into a mini series. The Native American debate came about when Brane attempted to argue that Native Americans coming over here on the Bering Strait and living for tens of thousands of years is the same as the conquest of the Americas and living on the continent for centuries. He believes that both cultures should be termed Native Americans. <p> By no means do I believe that Europeans are inherently evil. My ancestors are European, but I don't think that makes them Native Americans. There is a difference between the two definitions.

• March 9, 2008, 12:56 a.m. CST

#### Who knew that it was so contoversial to claim...

by rbatty024

that the Native American culture is different from a European one? Strange, indeed.

• March 10, 2008, 9:57 p.m. CST

#### you know what would be cool?

by captain_kirk

They should set the constitutional convention on an island. Each of the 50 or so guys who signed the constitution fights to see who gets to sign last. John Hancock wins.

• March 10, 2008, 9:58 p.m. CST

#### and yes...

by captain_kirk

I know it was the Declaration of Independence that Hancock signed last..I just got carried away..but still....

• March 12, 2008, 6:47 a.m. CST

#### rbatty024

by Cybyer

"Who knew that it was so contoversial to claim that the Native American culture is different from a European one?" <br> It's not. The point of the argument is that it's historically inaccurate (perhaps a better word would be "outdated")to refer to ANYONE as native Americans. No one sprang forth from the dirt in North America. That was the point I was making when I entered the argument. Why not just refer to the individual tribes involved by name? Or would that hurt your perception that the Native Americans were all one big happy land-loving family?

• March 12, 2008, 6:55 a.m. CST

#### Speaking of Genocide...

by Cybyer

I'd like to know just how many distict tribes and their cultures were wiped out as Native American culture spread over North America and tribes warred among themselves for the plum territories of just for the hell of it. Too bad that part of history is still mostly lost. Don't even try to tell me that it didn't happen. War and atrocity has followed humanity to every corner of the globe. Talk about human "nature"...

• March 12, 2008, 6:58 a.m. CST

#### Dammit! Need edit button.

by Cybyer

"...how many [distinct] tribes..."<br> <br> "...territories [or] just for..."

• March 17, 2008, 8:52 a.m. CST

#### It was brilliant!

by Luscious.868

I loved every minute of it. Just when I was thinking about canceling HBO, they come out with this. Between John Adams, In Treatment, Real Time with Bill Maher, another season of Curb and the upcoming movie about the Florida Recount, HBO is giving me just enough to keep my subscription going.

• March 17, 2008, 11:37 a.m. CST

#### Excellent!!

by morGoth

The first two episodes are right up there with band of Brothers and is indeed brilliant. Can't wait for the next five installments. Congrats to Hanks, Giamatti and, wow, laura Linney for showing just how good television can be. Superb!!