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‘Maybe We Should Just Tell Them!!’ Widmores and Minkowski!! LOST 4.5!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
“Tell us what??”
“They took off a day ago!! Why haven’t we heard from them??”
“Why are you flying directly into the thunderhead??”
“Let go of me!!!!”
“What the bloody hell is going on??”
“Am I gonna die??”
ABC says of tonight’s “Lost,” the Desmond-centric “The Constant”:
Sayid and Desmond hit a bit of turbulence on the way to the freighter, which causes Desmond to experience some unexpected side effects. Guest starring are Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus, Alan Dale as Charles Widmore, Sonya Walger as Penelope "Penny" Widmore, Graham McTavish as sergeant, Darren Keefe as Billy, Edward Conery as auctioneer, Marc Vann as doctor, Fisher Stevens as George Minkowski, Kevin Durand as Keamy and Anthony Azizi as Omar.
What is ABC leaving out? “The fifth episode of the season deals with time travel and operates in different time periods,” “Lost” showrunner Carlton Cuse tells Jeff Jensen of Entertainment Weekly.
The same interview tells us we will learn this season who was in that third-season finale coffin, that the Adam and Eve skeletons won’t be dealt with this season, that the Orchid Station (of the ’07 Comic-Con orientation film) will play a big role this season, and that Miles’ last name is Straum.
* Dan will intimate that the islanders’ perception of time is not to be trusted.
* The journey will cause Desmond to begin ranting.
* Sayid, Frank and Desmond will arrive on the freighter in daylight.
* Minkowski (“Short Circuit” icon Fisher Stevens) will greet Desmond from a sickbed.
For those asking what I thought of last week’s installment? Loved Miles’ grenade breakfast. Liked that Frank’s chopper was overdue. Didn’t mind learning details of the Oceanic Six cover story. Very slightly intrigued about Jack keeping a distance from Aaron. (I’m guessing maybe Jack blames himself for some yet-to-be-disclosed Claire situation. Might like it better if Aaron keeps seizing control of Jack’s brain without permission.) Thought the details of Kate’s probation far from interesting. Thought the D.A. asking Jack if he loved Kate was kinda useless, since Jack was already lying about loads of stuff under oath.
9 p.m. Thursday. ABC.
PLANNING HIS VENGEANCE!!
$39.99: Every Issue 1963-2006!!
$5 Coen Bros.!!
Box Sets 50% Off!!
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It will make the Penny storyline completely worthless.
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more lost
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woo hoo!
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Lost is back in a big way. I can't wait for tonight, spoiler free of course.
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The first episode of the season that really intrigues me. The sneak peeks got be exicted (spoilerly as they were) - and usually they are just filler scenes of no real merit. Hopefully therefore the rest of the ep must be pure gold.
And we have been lacking in Desmond this season. I'm missing him, brother. -
just a slight appetizer while I await the Wire. Pongo, I totally agree. Don't kill off Desmond. He's the best character on that island.
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....*disclaimer*.... Ben is definately in the coffin!
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Don't get me wrong I loved that episode. The one thing I really felt uneasy about was when the woman showed up at the ring store, and started going on about fate and so on. It was way too much like the Oracle in the Matrix movies. I just hope it doesn't turn into the philsophical pretentious mess of the last 2 films.
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This is my First post on these talkbacks. I have been reading this site for years and finally decided to join.
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at this point in the story might be one of the few things that would make me tune out of Lost. I sincerely doubt that will happen though. His story seems way to integral to the overall plan here. He has to be destined for something great, right?
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I'm watching an episode this season completely spoiler free. The excitement is killing me. I LOVE THIS SHOW.
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A couple friends seem to be growing impatient with this show still, even though it's moving faster than ever. I used to try and argue the point, now I just say "Maybe you should stop watching, sounds like you've hit the wall" and that's a lot easier. Highly recommended.
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In some ways this is a weak season, and in other ways it isnt. I agree with the fact that there isnt the same emotional resonance, but at the same time, the ride is wilder than it has ever been I think. We are back to getting interesting and surprising twists every episode and that hasnt really been the case since season one.
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Yeah, there's definietly some sort of Matrix-y vibe about Lost, but I don't think there's any danger of "philsophical pretentious" arising seeing as the Matrix was simple tale of a guy realising he's carrying around the answer to a problem and takes it upon himself to do what needs to be done to solve the problem... or did I see a different story than everybody else...
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This is my first post too. I've been reading all the lost talkbacks since last years season finale. Finaly I decided to join. Hello everybody.
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Lost is still pretty strong. Something about this seasaon seems a bit thin though. Could be the fact that they intro'd more characters with more backstories. Also one thing that always bothered me was how easily they can track and find eachother on this island. The island always seemed so much bigger in the first 3 seasons. I understand that you need to edit something out in order to condense the storylines but when everyone walks through the jungle and they so easily track or stumble upon eachother, it sort of breaks the illusion. Just a thought.
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Let's all prepare to have our minds completely screwed with again.
and ForkTongue, they find each other so easily now because they are going to specific places. If you have to wander around and find someone it takes a long time, but if you know that they are likely at the beach or at the barracks you go directly to that location and it's no big deal. -
It's an addiction. And misery loves company. So.. good to see you!
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I think it's just that they stick to certain areas on the island, more or less
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I don't get why people are whining about Jack being asked if he loved Kate. He was supposed to be a character witness and was talking about how wonderful Kate was, so the prosecutor was trying to point out that he had every reason to say things to get Kate out of trouble. It's not like she could say, "Look Jack, we all know you're full of crap because more than 8 people survived the crash." She really had no way to combat his testimony other than that. Sure, it was not the most realistic trial ever, but you know what there's a dude who travels in time and a giant monster made of smoke that comes out of the ground and beats people to death, so I'm willing to let the legal realism slide a bit.
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It's nice to be able to post on here again. For quite a while everytime I tried to log in to post in a Lost talkback, it just asked me to log in again and again and again. I felt like I was stuck in some sort of screwed up loop like Des in FBYE.
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I'm already addicted to read all the posts every single time. It can only get worse now. but I couldn't care less.
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Please gop back to the old way you wrote the LOST posts, it was much better.
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Ended up clicking the login button rather than hitting enter.
Go figure. -
That scene where they all met and Jack pulled the gun on Locke that really bothered me.
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i didn't have a problem with that. after all, the last time they all met up, Locke killed Noemie in full view of everyone. Jack was understandably pissed.
as for Eggtown, i thought the dwelling on Kate's legal problems was reasonable enough: it'd have been lame if they didn't deal with it as a significant obstacle. plus i thought the final flashback redeemed any water-treading elsewhere in the ep.
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Even when you get an episode last week like "Eggtown" that is weak by LOST standards, you know that the next week will be cock-explodingly good. The preview for this episode that aired after last week's ep has me very excited.
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Let's hope they can keep it up.
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I agree with you about letting the legal realism slide, but your argument brings up an interesting point. I feel that the "real" things in lost (human emotion, situations, etc.) are ESSENTIAL to this story, in fact, it's the POINT. Everyone in this show has lost their way in their lives, and through their trials on the island, they find themselves. The reason the island and everything on it and how people react is all juxtaposed against the REALNESS of everything else - that's why it works. Granted, I thought the trial WAS realistic, but I'm no expert. Regardless, it's ESSENTIAL that the real things feel real so we get that contrast, and understand the seriousness of every character's life.
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...I'm sure he's not dying anytime soon, he's too awesome. But at the same time, I'm I the only one who thinks that his (Henry Ian Cusick) talent is being wasted on this show. He's too good for bit pieces here and there!
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People on the island who die have a way of sticking around. Christian, Mikhail, Charlie, etc.
But even taking that into account, I do not think he will die. -
Oh no doubt about that, the devil, as they say, is in the details. I just don't think that the trial itself was really all that big of a deal. It wasn't there to show us the legal drama, the outcome was a done deal long before it ever started. Its purpose was to show us around 4 things: (1) That, yes, Kate went back and had to stand trial, but there was no way they could convict her because of the circumstances surrounding who she is. (2) The lies that the O6 are telling. (3) That Kate has a kid who happens to be Aaron, and she will do anything for him, even if it means giving up Jack. (4) That while Kate probably has a golden pass for Oceanic Air, she is willing to accept a deal that says she won't leave the state, because she doesn't want to go baaaaack. (I'm guessing she won't grow a crazy Jackbeard either, but that has more to do with personal preference than fear.)
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first class is cancelled and Lost is on tonight. I fucking love thursdays.
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No I meant that scene bothered me because everyone seemed to stumble on that spot in the jungle seemingly by accident. Not the actual Jack pulling the gun bit. Sorry I should have worded that better.
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...DOCTOR WHO casts Henry Ian Cusick as the Eleventh Doctor (David Tennant's replacement) for 2010. And if Steven Fucking Moffat ends up as the new showrunner, holy crap will that be glorious....
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maybe?
Hell, I thought the oddest thing about it was that they were by the cockpit, which we haven't seen since season 1. Shouldn't there still be months old bodies in there? -
Has Desmond LOST his catchphrase this season? He said Brother more times than the Hulkster before....BROTHER!
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I'm not sure if anyone else picked this up but I did and I started playing it last night. The game is supposed to be split up into 7 or 8 episodes like the show. I played through the first two (complete with previously on lost recaps, and "cliffhanger ending"). It only took me an hour to complete the first two episodes and probably should have took 15 to 20 minutes, but I was playing around. While it is fun to be in the Lost universe, this isn;t really a game. All you do (so far) is walk around and pick things up and talk to people. The character models range from dead on to completely laughable, most being the later. Only a few of the actual actors did voice work (i think Ben, Juliet, Sun,Desmond, and Claire) are original voices, the rest do not really sound much like the characters. The game involves a guy named Elliot who wakes in the jungle with amnesia. He was on 815. His goal is to remeber who he is and get home. He experences some visions (like Jack and Hurley) of a girl he knows but doesnt know how. He is a journalist, so your first goal is to find your camera to jog your memory. You walk around and ask different characters if they know you or if they know where your character is. You can ask them other stuff (using a list of prescribed questions) but you dont really get any answers. You do meet Kate and it launches your first flashback. You have pieces of a memory of Kate boarding the plane and you have to relive the scene and take a picture of the event to jog your memeory (this being Kate being in handcuffs. After you take the right photo you go back to present time and remeber that kate is a fugitive. SPOILERS At the end of the first episode a guy approaches you in a suit and tie and asks for your camera, when you say you dont have it he punches you and says "I'm going to destroy that photo then kill you". He thens stomps your head and you black out. LOST End of first episode. Episode 2 starts with Kate, Jack, and Charlie returning from the cockpit and being scared by the monster. You figure that your camera is in the cockpit but Jack wont let anyone go into the jungle. You play another flashback and realize that you have to lie to Jack to distract him. Once in the jungle Locke tells you about hiding in a thicket of trees which you will later use to escape from the smoke monster. You find Michael near a cave and he gives you a lighter. After traveling through the cave (and finding a dead polar bear) you make it out and reach the cockpit. After searching the cockpit and doing a stupide mini game you get your camera. When you leave the cockpit you run into Ben and Juliet. They say something about "he might him or the one" and when you ask them who they are Ben replies "We're the good guys." Then Tom sneaks up and clubs you over the head and Juliet injects you with a needle. LOST Episode two is done. Overall the game is kinda boring so far, it was fun to talk to some characters but that gets old quick. I did manage to Gary Troupe myself by getting to close to the plane. As mentoined earlier there isn't much action yet, hopefully it will pick up. I'll keep ya posted if anything good happens.
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"Oh Red Tom, btw way many saw the myth/philosophy of Platos Cave and socraties in the Matrix. But the more it delved into this... "
Where did the Matrix ever mention anything whatsoever to do with Plato and Socrates? That was just typical, contemporary "seeing things that aren't actually there" angst from philsophically pretentious types... -
I mentioned last TB there would be an auction for Hanso's logbook from the Black Rock. Looks lke we et said auction tonight!!!!!!!
DOC JENSEN: Last season, you touted the Desmond-centric episode ''Flashes Before Your Eyes'' by saying that it ''uses the flashback device in a way you've never seen before — and will never see again.'' Does tonight's Desmond-centric outing, ''The Constant,'' uphold that pledge?
DAMON LINDELOF: '''The Constant' upholds that pledge, unpledges it, then repledges it. Also, there's a really cool auction in it.''
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Wouldn't it be ironic if Locke was in the coffin? And the only person to show up at Locke's funeral was Jack, who cries? I imagine if Locke had a funeral in the states, no one would attend. We still don't know who the last 2 of the Oceanic 6 are, do we?
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Fount: I completely agree and am 100% on board with you - it was all exposition on how Kate is in the real world after the crash. In fact, except for how she got Aaron, there is no real other mystery surrounding her. We need episodes like this and I enjoyed it a lot.
REDTOM: Teh Matrix is Philosophy 101. Seeing the light after being shielded in a cave your whole life??? It's Plato Plato Plato.
TO ANYONE: Does anyone else think that the producers/writers are going to kill off someone that is actually one of the Oceanic 6 BEFORE they get off the island - just to fuck with us? -
How the hell do I make different paragraphs in a post???
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Yes we know, but I won't spoil it if you don't want to know.
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I've seen... flashes... bits and pieces of the future...
What I can tell you is that Desmond does NOT die. -
Put the letter "p" inside the "lesser than" and "greater than" characters (which are the two keys to the right of your keyboard's "M" key). It is simply the standard HTML code for a paragraph break. Type this out once to do a carriage return -- like this...Type this out twice to do a carriage return and to insert a space between the two paragraphs -- like this...And that is the fabled secret of the TB paragraphs.
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I've been wondering that my whole life. Now I know. Now I feel like I REALLY know.
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I'd be ok with them killing Juliet off. Ever seen "Running Scared" with Paul Walker? Ever since that flick, I can't stand that actress. She just creeps me out now. Plus, she was an Other, right? Jack can live without her. OK, AdrianVeidt. Spoil me--who are the other 2?
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Um... Can we NOT have spoilers as part of the actual headline, please? I get that AICN prides itself in having the first scoop on most things and generally takes care not to spoil things for those that don't want to be spoiled - but these LOST headlines are getting out of hand.
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I've always thought that it would be interesting if they killed someone in a flash forward. We would have to watch them alive on the island knowing that their death was eminent. Sort of like the Cjarlie and Desmond thing only there was chance Charlie would still live. Keeping this in mind, I believe Jin is in the coffin. Based on the info that one of those people die, it has to be Jin. If they went to the states they wouldn't know anyone, hence why no one was at the funeral. Also, they wouldn't have much money so hence, the poor black neighborhood. Why no other O sixers are there, I don't know. I guess Sun and Jin would have to die to make it work. I dont know. Still waiting/ hoping for that future death.
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First, a warning to all reading this, there are no spoilers, but a lot of conjecture that could theoretically be spoiler-ish.
I've been assuming that Jin gets off the island along with Sun. That would add up to the right number of people in the O6. We've been told that we will know all of the O6 before the end of the first group of episodes. Of the episodes remaining in that group, only Sun and Jin have -centric episodes and were on the plane. To me, that sounds like they are the last two.
Then again, they could totally screw with us and have them get off the island and show us Jin dying during a flashforward. That would be weird. He'd still be on the show and still be around on the island, but we'd know he's dead later. I don't know if they'd do that or if my logic is correct about completing the O6, but it's an interesting idea. -
Jin and Sun, if everything we've been hearing is correct. We get their story in episode 7.
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Feb 28, 2008 11:18:06 AM CST
Yes Frodo T. Baggins...Desmond needs to say Brother more!
by studioplant69
Everything he says should be followed up with "brother".
I'm gonna take a piss brother. You have cancer brother. Does this look infected brother?
See it makes everything better...brother.
gfy. -
Anyone care to speculate on who will get flah backs/flash forwards in the next five eps. I'm assuming Jack, Locke, and Ben. Are safe bets. Maybe a Locke flash forward when he is still on the island? I would love for a Richard or Danielle Russuo (god I cant spell). Or maybe Widmore, Abbadon, or other Dharma figure, would be cool. It will be interesting which five they decide to use for the rest of the season. Knowing what the producers have said about the point of this season, we probably wont get Richard or any other crazy flashbacks this season. We shall see...
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I've been with the show until the last episode, when even I said, "For fuck's sake, just someone tell someone else what the fuck is going on!".
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So if time travel is a definate, then it's probably locked in that Adam and Eve are current cast members, right? Are Jack and Kate too obvious? And weren't there game pieces found alongside those dead bodies?
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The Des/Penny story has sort of become the underlying theme for the show. It's not the central story but it's the most important story I think. It's a redeeming story too and the show is all about redemption. Desmond didn't really do anything wrong, he's just on a bad luck streak courtesy of Penny's father. Desmond and Penny will be reunited on this show and Desmond will not die.
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Talk about unbridled enthusiasm. We gotta party, brother. Seriously, your post made me crack open VALIS this morning. I was planning on waiting just a few more days.
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LOST makes it up every season.
It's like Bushco throwing out whatever sticks then pretending that was meant all along.
Locke is still a closet Mo. He did have Miles in Gay sex cuffs. And he actively pursued the young males of the show. And the FBI honeytrapped him with a young man.
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Read previous post for "clues".
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Just sayin.
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But wasn't he nailing Al Bundy's wife for awhile?
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For Claire Bear!
It's a bummer, she's the only hott one left.....well Kate, but whatever. -
Aside from the fact that they didn't get some of the cast to come back for the voices, it's looking pretty sweet.
http://tinyurl.com/3ayyrt
Click "Trailer (HD)" -
If this is all one big test experiment, wouldn't guys like Sun's dad, Penny's dad, and Jack's dad be the kind of guys to take part in it? We got a lot of rich asshole daddies to content with here.
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What if Jack and the rest of the returnees have been "tampered" with and actually believe there were only 8 survivors and are not consciously lying?
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Is he a hand me down kid cause momma got the axe? Or is this a tribute baby from Sawyers loins? If he was a hand me down I dont think Jack would have a problem seeing him Brother. God I want to get off work from this shitty job and go home and watch last episode again Brother. Alright Des. Bring the pain with your I'll Rearange Any Consistant Thought Or Story Line This Season flash back Brother. ............BROTHER!
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Charlie.
The shows dynamic seems a little of with otu him. -
I got the Lost game yesterday, read my post above. I have played through the first two episodes, and it is a little underwelming. Hopefuly it picks up. Let me know if you have any questions on it.
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Saw the episode names, and thinking back to what they said about the person in the coffin being someone we had already "met", then #7 is where we meet someone..........
Could be a coincidence, I guess. -
I forsee Jin appearing from the future with a cool american accent.
And a samurai sword. -
it's impossible for some people, due to whatever Des was shooting up with or whatever else they come up, cannot leave the island. That if they do they die. That might tie into Walt's mom dying suddenly.
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However, keep this in mind: Her psychic said "This child cannot be raised by another." Which can also be seen as "This child cannot be raised by an OTHER." Think about it. At the very least, it gives the writer's an out for why Kate can raise the baby just fine.
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I really don't care whats going to happen, because the main thing I know is that Linus is still alive, and why no one just got it over with and killed him on the Island is just pathetic. The little kids with Flies had more balls then the survivors.
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Then what the hell is jack "sick of lying" about?
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Sayeed in the future clips, so knowing that, plus the fact this is a Desmond-centric episode means it's going to be great.
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...or maybe they have a sense of fairness, responsibility, humanitarianism, are grown up and don't behave as children, respect life, perfer trial by jury rather than execution, realize a good story line when they see it, understand plot development and character advancement......
But killing a main character that a lot of the story revolves around... that's good too.
geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz -
...of course he'd feel guilty about seeing the kid!
OH WAIT...you guys haven't seen that happen yet...nevermind -
I think Kate's statement about "hearing that story so often, I'm starting to think you believe it" kind of kills that theory.
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There seems to be no other TV talkback right now, what ever happened to talk backs about the Sarah Coner Show? I think its been a lot better then Lost, better special effects and the story moves forward. Also Breaking Bad is the best show on right now. I am amazed at this point in the show that Lost has managed to stay on.
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The problem is that had the psychic never interfered, Aaron wouldn't have had a chance of being raised by an Other. It was his freak out about being raised by another, followed by his lie about the couple in LA that would adopt the baby and keep it safe that caused Claire to be on the island and Aaron to be in the prescence of Others. I have thought from the first season (and still think) that Aaron is either the ultimate good or ultimate evil in this show and that how/by whom he is raised makes all the difference.
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That's all fine and dandy...but I pray to God there's no "mechanism" shown...no "DeLorean" if you will...a device that makes this "time travel" possible.
I'm hoping they keep in relegated to the island's mysterious make up...and they stay away from scenes like a room with a chair in the middle and lots of technical gizmos attached to the person in the chair (ala The Matrix)...or blinding flashes of electricity that forms a ball around the subject (ala Terminator)...
I would just like the time travel to be organic...and not explained by sci-fi mumbo jumbo.
God, I wanna read those spoilers!! Is it 9pm yet?! -
Ive been enjoying this season enormously. I liken this season to seeing the aftermath to a hurricane, with so much chaos, confusion, and fear. Charlie dying summized the first three seasons perfectly. S4 has become painfully serious and its working.
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We've alredy seen time travel. It was Desmond in Flashes Before Your Eyes and it basically was just him (or his current consciousness, if you will) going back and reliving his life. No special mechanism required. (other than that super-imploding hatch, that is.) Since tonight is Des again, I'm guessing it's pretty much the same thing.
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I think he died in the hatch explosion, but came back to life as the island or something else incarnate, and that's why he was found COMPLETELY naked after the hatch explosion. I'm sure there are other details to this theory I'm working out, but let's go with this for now... thoughts?
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I agree, he might have been lying - but he definitely wanted Claire to crash land, I think they wanted us to know that much.
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I always thought that the implication was that he told Eko he was a fraud to get him out of there. He claimed that the whole issue with his daughter was made up, but she then gave Eko a message from Yemi that seemed to prove that the story was real.
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Could it be possible he was naked because he really did time travel? Just like in Terminator movies when they time travel they arrive naked
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Now that idea makes my head hurt.
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I love Desmond. And miss Charlie.
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What? It works for BSG, why not "Lost"?
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Based on that, and maybe they deleted it since it isn't true to the plotline, but perhaps the others planned the whole crash - they WANTED to bring people to the island. Clearly, this is a well-researched theory, but this supports it...
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But why would he cough up all that cash by telling Claire, "YOU...and You alone must raise this baby"?
Seems to me he DID have a true psychic vision...that possibly even surprised himself...It's possible he NEVER had any real psychic ability until Claire walked into his office. -
Apparently the death that occurs before the end of Episode 7, is one of the Oceanic 6. Which means it happens in a flashforward. And seeing as the next flashforward up to bat is Jin and Sun, odds are one of them is going to bite it in the future.
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was the saddest few moments of this show and many I have seen over the ears. The music, desmond, the water and everything perfectly put together. Charlie & Desmond are by far the most popular characters it seems and for good reason. They're decent, but flawed people who deserve better than fate gives them.
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not ears. Oh and I'm not ashamed to admit I cried at the end of Through The Looking Glass 2. Every time I watch it.
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Lost needs to bring these two stories back again and give us the next piece about why these two children were (are) so important. For awhile, children seemed to have such an emphasis in stories that I thought in the end the central story would have something to do with them. But like those pesky detractors have said, the show seems to have dropped that thread. I hope they pick it up again.
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C'mon, spill it. Why does Jack push Claire out of the helicopter? At least try to come up with something somewhat plausible please...
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Until bliss. And answers. I hope.
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as Chaaaalie found out, Claire is a pricktease. "I'm only your HALF brother Claire! Now get down on your rescuers manhood, bitch! No?"
Thump....."Happy landings, pricktease" -
tonight, I will have it up under edshrinker on The Pirate Bay by 11pm. torrent will be created in wmv, no commercials, and seeded immediately by me. For ALL of you immensely intelligent lovers of LOST. That's 11pm eastern.
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I think Des' conscience has traveled fom the past to the future. For example, once on the boat he doesn't recognize Sayid or Frank and is clueless as to how he just appeared on a boat. Could this be a past Des having a flash forward to the freighter???
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Feb 28, 2008 1:34:31 PM CST
High school mock trial ruined courtroom scenes for me forever.
by phool2056
The ones last week were pretty off. You can't approach the witness without permission from the judge--the bailiff will TACKLE you. Prosecution makes its case first, meaning prosecution witnesses are called before defense witnesses, so Kate's mother would have been up before Jack. "Do you love her" as a question may be relevant, but the actual objection there would be "vague ad ambiguous" because there's no clear legal definition of "love."
Obviously some creative license is fine, but except for the order of witnesses thing, a lot of these could have been fixed with an extra line or two of dialogue. A quick "permission to approach" isn't so hard, and forcing the prosecutor to come up with a more clinical definition of love could have actually improved that moment:
"Do you love her?"
Objection!
"I'll rephrase. Is the well-being of the defendant important to you?" etcetera. -
(poom)
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following on from last week TB re. what to send to ABC if they cancelled Lost, how about a another Q. In the LOST Universe, what single Q would you like answered above all? Mine would be what the deal with the four toes statue. anybody got a idea of just one Q that want answering.
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good topic. the four-toes statue would be high on my list. let's see, to choose only one I guess I would ask a two part a)what's evangeline lilly's cell phone number and b)would she fuck me?
I jest.
but seriously, this is prolly too obvious, but i NEED to know what is going on with Cerberus the Smoke Monster. -
That would be mine. Or wait.. maybe "who are the natives?"
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i actually agree with you. pisses me off too.
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was there a specific comment on the show that referred to "the natives." if so, who said it and when. i know there is evidence on the island of people there very early on (the ruins and the 4 toes) but can anyone help me on anything said about "natives" specifically.
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were mentioned a few times in Ben's flashback where he offed the dharma initiative. They were "the others" to Dharma.
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Richard Alpert. Apparently.
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i know but i thought they were more specifically the "hostiles" I guess what I am asking is, was there ever a time when the natives were referred to seperately from the hostiles that were fucking with dharma. because the hostiles, imo, were mos def NOT the Islands original inhabitants. MAYBE they were descended from the natives, but I don't think the Hostiles are the Natives
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But I believe in the Ben flashback both "hostiles" and "natives" were used. And Kelvin Inman definitely used one of those words too... shit I'm confused as to who said what. Someone wanna check? I don't see why we can't assume Alpert's people aren't the original inhabitants of the island/descendents of the 4 toed statue builders/natives. We do know that Richard has been around for a LONG time and doesn't age.
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She's a genetically engineered cyborg...
with a bomb...
IN HER RIBCAGE!!! -
I'm officially disowning you as a fan of this show for that. It's unacceptable to pretend to be a true fan when you're really a shipper in disguise.
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So, was he paid to get Claire onto a plane and sent to LA or onto *that* plane and sent to LA. If it is the latter, perhaps the Others knew of Claire and the crash and planned ahead. (Indicating that he is a fraud who had one true prophecy, maybe) Or maybe it was just him talking and trying to convince Eko to leave his family in peace. Or as someone else suggested, maybe the scene was cut because it went against the canon of the show. I don't know.
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As in relationship. A pejorative referring to people who (using wikipedia's words) "support a fictional romantic relationship, usually on the internet." You know, Jaters and Skaters. (I feel dirty having just typed those terms.)
Besides, we all know the important question is whether Jack ends up with Juliet. -
According to the last 2 weeks of TV Ratings published in USA today, LOST ranked 7th overall and 6th in the 18-4o whatever demographic.
Thsi show will not be cancelled with numbers like that. -
Feb 28, 2008 2:40:28 PM CST
They're making it painfully obvious that Claire's in the coffin
by sick fixx
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If Claire is in the coffin, that would cause several problems. (1) That puts Through the Looking Glass before Eggtown. If that's the case, Jack has made a remarkable recovery from his bearded oxycontin days and has stopped saying that they need to go back. (2) That also would make it odd for anyone to believe that Aaron is Kate's son, since he would have been with his mother when they came back until she died. (Plus, Kate took her baby, but refused to go to the funeral?)
While Claire may be dead, I'm pretty sure she's not the one in the coffin. -
Too late. Sorry.
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Who said I'm watching tonight? Kate's arrest was very underwhelming. No leg irons, no shackles. Just flimsy handcuffs. But nothing short of a ballgag would have satisfied me.
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Sorry, to partially disagree, but the flash-forward in 'Looking Glass' does take place after 'Eggtown'. In fact it's after all the other flash-forwards, except possibly Sayid's.
However, I do agree that Claire ain't in the coffin - although she might die. -
I say Locke. Clair doesnt get off the island. Clearly there is people left behind. I shall dub them. The Left Overs. Kate has a misscarrage. Clair prolly dies. Kate addopts Aaron. IE the forshadowing from last episode about How Shes Not So Good With Kids...."You should try it sometime". And I would like to think Sawyer dies in some heroic way by saving a few people. Or just Kate. And she sucks him off during his last few moments. Desmond watches from a far and says "Brother, its aboot Tyme. Im outa here now brother." And poof hes naked again and dives into the water to his magic sail boat and drifts away. Oh and Hurley fucked Clair and squished here. Goes crazy because hell never have a dime like that again. & Charlie keeps appearing to him at convienant stores saying "Whyd you fuck me gurl?"
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Didn't the obituary say "he" somewhere in it - meaning it's a man?
My guess is that the man in the coffin is either Ben, Locke, or Michael.
Ben has changed before, evidenced by the several passports, and we know he makes it back. Maybe he dies after what we saw in Sayid's flash-forward - who would want to go to his funeral? That's right nobody.
Locke fits the original obituary better and nobody would go to his funeral either.
I think Michael has changed his name and we will soon 'Meet' him again. He could used another name as well and again nobody, but Walt would go to his funeral.
Now, someone please tell me I'm wrong - cause that's the point of these talkbacks right? -
I agree that TTLG is likely the latest flashforward. What I was saying was that *if* Claire is in the coffin, *then* that meant that TTLG had to be before Eggtown, which makes no sense. Sorry, I wasn't clear.
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The obit definitely indicated that it was a man. What we don't know is if the obit was meant to be seen and is canon or if it was simply a prop made to look like an obit and the propmaster had no knowledge of what was supposed to be there. I don't think we've heard confirmation either way from DL/CC.
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Possible Spoiler**********
I read somewhere that whoever was in the coffin hailed from New York and left behind a teenage son. Strong evidence for Michael. Also I'm pretty sure that it is not Claire because Kate would actually care about her dying and going to her funeral. -
That makes sense, and I agree with you now 100% on the Eggtown/Claire thing.
I've also thought about the obituary, and agree that it might not be canon. At the same time they could have ensured nobody could read it at all instead of just the little snippets that were visible - just my two cents. -
Best of the bunch. I picture it being pronounced with a long "o" and silent "e" at the end like "antelope".
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indifference. i don't know what you're talking. anyway i don't fucking care...
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i only skimmed your above message about my "willing indifference" when i wrote my last post, but i just read the post fully. that really pissed you off, huh? you gonna squirt some?
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You really love each other. Like Hurley & Sawyer. Awww. Yall cute
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Thanks for stopping by, old sport, and classing the place up a bit!
If LOST is my guilty pleasure, i have to balance it out by watching some Japanese Surrealism and raeding the complete translated works of Nabokov! You inspire me! -
does everyone on here hate you?
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all is well. now let's gang up on sick fixx. i jest, i jest
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if the show itself didn't turn him off, you guys sure have now :) i'm almost feeling bad for him. almost...I remember the nuttiness from a few weeks ago
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node # for the LOST talkback we had that lasted from May 07 to what was it Node...Dec 07...or Jan 08?
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Ben to me fits better, no one would go to his funeral. Jack went because he discovers that Ben was right about the island and the people on the ship.
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lastest from the season finale in may (24th if memory serves correct)2007 until January 2008 when it was shut down due to hitting the big 10k...but luckily the discussions and debate continued on anotehr Lost talkback just opened concerning a Matthew Fox interview, and we were able to jump homes until the season premier...
in those 8 months of glorious Lost debates, general geeking out and numerous fantastic theroies we were free of assholes mostly...every now and again a hater landed in shouted something about Heroes and buggered off again, but the discussions stayed on topic and lost centric..then when season 4 started these talkbacks were (are) flooded with assholes,,,,i'll name no names(CapJack) who decide to try and spoil episodes for everyone; and other people no names again (SF); who just talk shit and try to start mundane arguments and take the focus away from this great show...the days of room 23 are long gone...
to my room 23 pals, sorry aint been about, my constant battle with poor(not seroius or anything) health mixed with band commitments and work(U know all to well Big E) has made my post count severly drop...I try to read what everyone says but am not able to contribute as much as I can......but its good to see the old gang, Node, RB, PB, Big E and others still fighting the good fight....
I'll hopefully get to see the episode somestage tomorrow(god bless the internet) and will hopefully be in to get ur views on it... -
means only one thing 'Brutha'..
more 'HOLY FUCK' moments...I love that man....namaste -
of pompous, name-dropping, culture-flouting, nonsense that went on for 50 or so worthless posts by one individual. Then the usual "the show sucks, I'm above it, won't watch it, but spend 3 hours posting here" type behavior. So I ask you, would you welcome said poster back gleefully?
Desmond Hume...and...Penelope Widmore
Hummore? Deselope would be my favorite. Jacket (Juliet and Jack) is a close 2nd. -
Our Brutha was a Brother. Oh irony. Soldier, Yachtsman, Monk, button-pushing hermit, stud to a rich cutie pie, time-traveler....brutha has lived full life so far! All glory Desmondo!
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would never get away with Aaron as son if Claire made it back to the world with her baby. Mum and baby do not make it back together. And remember Kate's reaction when Jack asked about her going to the funeral "why would I go???"
Real shit would have to occured to make Kate despise Claire so much she wouldn't consider going to her funeral. NOT Claire. Same with Ben, but in this case, why would Jack even SUGGEST Kate go? Has to be a person of importance to them, but there was a faling out. Sawyer is not an O-6er. Michael made it back and has an alias (maybe Kevin Johnson???). SO would Walt. Hoffs-Drawler Funeral home was in that neighborhood for a reason - we know this about our writers. Gotta be Michael. Kate wouldn't react that way about Walt. Locke would never come back and I doubt you'd see Jack cry over him. It's a he, that and the neighborhood and no turnout - can't be Juliet.
Process of elimination folks. Gotta be Michael. -
"touches self"
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Darlton promised...WE WILL KNOW who is in the coffin before this season is over.
My one question: explain the science behind the Orchid video from comic-com (BUnny 15..."don't let them touch!!!) That would go a long way to solving the biggest island mysteries.
My question from before - thanks for all the answers. I couldn't think of anything more clever than you guys. I like the generic food drop (with little dharma symbols drawn on). Maybe print up a shitload fake Oceanic golden tickets to litter ABC's lawn with. -
Turns out the island is really an Alternate reality. When you leave it changes your reality for the person that you've become on the Island. Very very weird. at the end of the game you leave the island only to wake up back on the island RIGHT after the crash, but things going on around you are different. Similar to desmond's flashes.
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I'm not quite sure I understand. So there is really no payoff for leaving the island? YOu just wake back up like its groundhog day? Mirrors some theories bounced around here about the show originally being called "The Circle" and the plot device described therein. So glad the show has not taken that direction. How much you wanna guess that WAS a rejected plotline though??
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The man in the coffin is John Lantham. How do I know this? Because the newspaper article says so. If you guys would stop wasting your time theorizing and start wasting your time looking at screencap websites then you would know this. Here is what the article reads:
"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue.
Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft.
Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room.
According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son.
Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."
So who the fuck is John Lantham? Probably Michael.
* Michael is from New York
* Michael has reason to use an alias
* Michael has a teenage son
* No one would attend the funeral because everyone who knew Michael thinks he is dead.
* Jack would feel like attending the funeral because it fits his character. Kate wouldn't because it fits her character.
* Jack says he is neither friend nor family because Jack is somewhat famous and an investigation to Jack's relationship with Lantham might reveal he is Michael to the public, which is something Jack does not want.
* Whoever is in the coffin is not what drove Jack to suicide. He was clearly distraught even before reading that article. But it did seem to affirm whatever bad feeling he had and need to go back.
The other possibility is that the man in the coffin truly is John Lantham. A character yet to be introduced.
So can we stop the whole Locke is in the coffin/Ben is in the coffin insanity? Those theories make very little sense. -
Eddie Dean of New York.
Raise a Nozz-a-la for the fallen gunslinger.
Poppins will be served at the wake. -
If you were to time travel, one of the tricky bits would be to travel to a time where the Earth was relative in position to where you are when you leave the 'present'. Because of its hurtling through space, it wouldn't necessarily be in the same position that it was when you left. The entire galaxy spins in a big circle, so if you were trying to send an object into the past, you'd have to find a space AND time that corresponds to the time you left. So a sending yourself back a year ago to the second, and you might be on the other side of the planet if you couldn't direct yourself.Say the polar bear was sent into the past, but the first 'Earth' space/time it could interact with was waaaaay back when the 'Earth' was in the same position it was when it was sent. Just an idea about how the polar bear ended up in the past.
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Don't be an ass with your tone. That will get you nowhere around here and I'd hate to see Node get frothy. To take the snideness off your comment, TPTB have stated the newspaper article was a prop and not intended to be read. Any clues therein MAY be written into the show now, but it was not a hint to be analyzed. It was very much a red herring. However - now that clever ones have managed to draw all that out of the prop, our wonderfully creative LOST team may very well give us a payoff. Or just explain it away as a cover story. Or ignore it altogether as a red herring. I am moderately polite - I hope you suffer not the wrath of others that, well, dislike your tone. Just friendly advice - enjoy the TB.
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Zombie Luciano Pavarotti.
Season 5 will be all about they fit him into that coffin. -
would actually make sense - if Jack felt Ben was his only way Baaaack to the island. Kate's reaction would be spot on - though why Jack would even ask if she went would be weird. We know Ben is around playing dangerous games with Sayid. No friends. Hoffs-Drawler maybe just has a contract with the city for unclaimed corpses. It IS possible, though not likely.
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Ok, first off, take this first part with a grain of salt because it's something my brother told me regarding the statue with 4 toes. My brother said he saw an interview with JJ Abrams on tv at the end of s.2 and Abrams said that the statue was just something he put in the ep. to throw people off and fuck with 'em. I've never seen this interview so I can't say if it's for sure, but it sounds like something Abrams would do, since he's kind of a pretentious prick like that. The business with Aaron being with Kate. I don't know why everyone assumes that Claire is dead and Aaron is with Kate voluntarily. Keep in mind that everything in the flash forwards we still don't know what's happening with them and how the storylines on the island play out to get the characters from the present to their storyline in the future. I think 1 of 2 things are happening with Kate and Aaron, either Kate was leaving the island and Claire gave Aaron to her in order to give him a life off the Island. This would explain why Jack does not want to see him, b/c it's a visible reminder that they left everyone behind. OR Kate stole Aaron from Claire before she left and Jack never agreed with this decision and thus never wants to see him. It's just a thought and is obviously unfounded but so is everything else in this TB. Let me know what you guys think about this, love everything you guys are saying about the show though, giving me lots to think about/anticipate for tonights episode.
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I was going for a kind of joking or facetious tone. Sorry if it came out snide. I'm the last person who would get nasty over something as trivial as this.
Anyway, if the article was just a prop then I would need to see the source where that was confirmed. -
Maybe Dexter crossover ep.
He'd cut hm up into 5 hefties - distribute neaty into wood box.
Fuck I love that show. Knew NOTHING about it. Downloaded seasons one and two on a whim after seeing it on CBS. THAT is awesome serialized TV...hooked me in like Angel season 3. And is close to Lost as far as really getting me hyped for the next ep. God how I yearn to be able to just download LOST Seasons 4-6 and just take a weeks vacation, whitecrosses, Diet Mountain Dew, a piss bucket and frozen pizzas. Once again - touching self.
Lost lovers - I HIGHLY recommend UNEDITED/Showtime version of Dexter. 9/10. -
Good man. I've learned the hard way one must be cognizant of tone or things can escalate...and that's no fun, hey? Guys - can we help Dapper out? Links? I will begin my search. Gotilk, 4we8 - I know you guys have something...
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"The Truth about the Newspaper Clipping
Producers have said over and over to disregard the newspaper clipping, as they are going to re-write it. "
All i got for now
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I agree with edshrinker...Dexter can be bought relatively cheaply now on DVD, and the first season is just brilliantly done. Even the watered down CBS series is better than nothing on that network...If you want something that the Lost producers loved and decided to sort of emulate, should look at an old BBC show called The Prisoner. FANTASTIC show with a really BAD ending. Patrick McGoohan should do an ep of LOST.
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http://tinyurl.com/22862j
Just scroll down a little bit to The Truth about the Newspaper Clipping -
Hmm. Pre-cum. I'm shuddering. Maybe a little enhanced EggyTown for fun,
THANKS micturatingbenjamin!!! I seed so much good TV, I'll turn around and download some for a change. Looking forwad to it! Pass the time between Thursdays. Don't forget - if any of ya'llcan't get the ep by 11 pm US/Eastern Time...The Pirate Bay. Edshrinker. wmv (small file size/moderate quality) file. Or just search Lost s04e05
I do this for NO OTHER REASON but for the love of the show and my wish to share to those who can't access it as early as I can. Good Karma. I've been doing the same things with Green Bay Packer games this year - share the, albeit aborted, joy. -
Have you seen Dexter season 2 yet? A little different- but IMO jst as engaging as season 1. And Lila. GoodGOdAlmightyGooglyMoogly. British, darkhair, sexy beyond belief. "Pardon my tits" Beautiul line. Best Lila line - after Dex asks "What step was that?" after a scrogging.......
(W/gloriously sexy acccent)"The naughty one".
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm -
Ben's man on the boat is Michael?
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Wow. That would actually be pretty fucking cool.
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PKD mentions CS Lewis and Minkowski in the book. He mentions a place where time turns into space. He mentions a black iron prison that is seen when the past, present and future are superimposed on each other.
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I was walking to the SCI-FI Section at Barnes & Noble and on my way a black book with the word 'BORGES' was on the cover. It caught my eye and I stared at it while walking by.I got to the sci-fi section and the first PKD novel I pulled out was VALIS. On the back it said something about the US having their very own BORGES on their hands. One of the themes in the book has to do with coinciences just like I had just experienced.Get this. The book Saywer was reading was written by a good friend of Borges and the first cover used for the book was illustrated by Borges' sister.Is the universe fucking with me? Or am I tapped in? Probably just crazy like PKD. Can't wait for Desi's episode tonight!!!
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Great article here about how the Cinema has replaced the church in moder culture.
http://tinyurl.com/353ym5
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Anyone see the 1979 Disney flick "The Black Hole"? I suspect that the island is in essence like the spaceship Cygnus in that movie, literally perched at the edge of..something. Whether it's a wormhole, a "wrinkle in time" or some other type of temperal anomoley, it explains why many of the some of the "others" don't seem to age among other things.
Thoughts? -
Good theory Yeti. What is really amazing about it is that you made a reference to "The Black Hole" i thought I was the only person to have seen that movie.
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Let me say it this way. I love these shows (past/present NOT distinguished). IN the late 90's - today, my top shelf stuff(no particular order):
Lost, X-Files, B5, Farscape, BSG, 24, Firefly, Arrested Development, Angel, several seasons of Buffy....and I'm CERTAIN one or two will opo in my head as boarderline top shelf. So that gives you my "tastes". Lots of Sci-Fi. What I guess for being raised on Star Wars, Star Trek, Space 1999(SO Underrated tho unrealistic).
So is Angel worth your time? Putting a personal Whedonbias aside, ABSOLUTELY. By season 3, they had surpassed the mothership (Buffy)and began a mytharc that went on for the next two season or or less. And what a ride. Season 1-3 is absolute bliss. 4 was just ok, a little annoying with a character in particular that will just grate on you. Season 5 is a game-changer, enter Spike and exit annoying characters, and the best wrap-up season I could ever imagine. Wanted it to go on - but as it is a WONDERFUL job tying it all up. Whew. Any questions? Would download it - and have - just to re-watch it. I would buy the box set if I had the disposable cheddar for such things. -
GodsDamn it NO edit button
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where the entire series is actually a dream, is they always have some open-ended winking-at-you ending, that always has some guy saying, seasons later, "it's all just Desmond's dream!"
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Just missed the opening, anything big besides the helicopter going down, what was desmond yelling?
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You are truly fucked now.
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plus an hour of Lost. awesome.
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The cg looked better.
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Body swapping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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and the IronMan chord was fucking perfect
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No I've figured it out, time is weird, he can't remember the island and is now traveling around in time...
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In the past knows what's going on (kinda). Des on the freighter is (in his mind) Army Des and has NO CLUE what is happening to him. Consciousness has switched between the 2 Desmonds. THAT IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wondering if since Desmond was on the left side and Siayd was on the right, did that part of the chopper pass outside of whatever 'time corridor' that they were supposed to be following? consequently unsticking him in time?
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that's all
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Iron Man trailer was kinda of a mixed bag.
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swapping conciousness
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Man, the election can't get here soon enough. I'm sick of these ads.
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My favorite TV shows are probably Twin Peaks, Sports Night, Arrested Development, Seinfeld, Lost, and Angel. I consider Angel season 3 and 4 to have some of the best season long arc stories ever seen. Yes, Angel does get a bad rap for the genre, and being associated with Buffy which was associated with teen girls to begin with, but Angel is fantastic. Very, very good. Also, this episode of Lost is fine so far, but it doesn't feel like a season four episode, if that makes any sense, and with Cuse and Lindelof writing, that's unusual
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nevermind, body swap it is.
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Iggy, right? I didn't know he was still alive. cool.
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We have too much beautiful LOST to tool with now so I'll just say this re: Angel. Like most shows, it took a bit of time season 1 to get its legs and to establish their identity apart from Buffy.
It took until they killed off a main character, brought in others (God I love Julie Benz), to really get in flow. They fall victim to a silly alternate reality mini-arc, but that was only a couple eps. When Darla (Julie B.)turns up - this show becomes completely addictive. -
And a look of "uh-huh, exactly" by Danny. Hey Des - drop by the next time you are in 1996. How cool is that.
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Because I need You to find me.
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Brilliant.
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No way. While the quantum theory I think you are getting into is the "multiverse" can exist in ANY and EVERY time/place...I don't see it in this case - yet. There are 2 times and 2 Desmonds and 2 consciousnesses. The past Des' (Army Des) consciousness knows nothing about the future...suddenly that consciousness is in Freighter Des' body and he goes WTF!!!!!!!!!
Freighter Des' consciousness gets zapped into Army Des. Forst thing he wants to do is find Pen-aheee. reasonable. -
Same Earth, different times. If you jump forward in time you won't remember the time you missed. The only question is where the current you is. This is a near perfect episode. Of any TV series. Ever. The only thing missing is Ben being punched.
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Yet another reference to Faraday's memory issues.
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there by creating an alternate timeline, I get the 2 Desmond thing, almost like "The Butterfly Effect"
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No Mullet on Danny! hIS FRONT HAIR IS PULLED BACK! You can escape the "mulleting" by growing ALL your hair out one length.
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Gods Damn this show is awesome.
The mouse did what he WILL train it do later. Holy Fuck. -
FUCKING AWESOME!!!!
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his past is changing and those events are now folding into his present memory. I think that is why he is staring into space.
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So long, Future Boy!
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is one smart boy.
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Lost cemented the 'greatest show ever' award tonight. But they better have a damned good explaination of all this or I'm gonna be pissed! lol
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I can't stand all the breaks. I want more of this awesomeness and I want it now!
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A younger Doc Brown
1.21 Gigawatts!!!!!!!!! -
BEST TV SHOW EVER. FOCK.
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to any Lost complainers in the talkback. Go find an Eli Stone talkback, this episode said fuck you and your camel Brotha hello??? Ahh.... they must have all left.
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all sucked until today. Faraday had potential, but now HOLY F*CK Daniel Faraday ladies and gentlemen!!! And the people on the boat have been on the island before!!! Faraday has set himself firmly on the top of the list as Best New Character of Season 4!!!!!
1) Locke
2) Ben
3) Juliette
4) DOC FARADAY!! -
Ben's spy? And if Penny didn't know about any ship how could she be calling the ship? And it has to be penny's father financing this right? Would explain how she knows how to reach it.
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a list of best new character of each season...
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he's such an asshole :)
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Eloise!
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IT was a sworn PROMISE. So by telling him to find him, Future Danny simply set Des on a course of action he was always supposed to take...probably except calling Pen-aheee. The universe can self correct throught that. But it would be tougher had she said YES and they met. But the uniiverse continues along its path.....
Catatonic for 75 minutes = 5 minutes to Des.
And what is Fucked up is Danny UNDERSTANDS ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
Ah, back when I still had hopes and dreams.
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Is this simply the standout episode of Lost, or one of the best episodes of TV in the last 20 years. Ranking up there with "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose," Wiseguys "Blood Dance," and Charles S. Dutton's episode of Homicide.
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but it's damned possible
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My brain is time travelling and nose is bleeding. I need a Percocet.
THERE IS MY FUCKIN AUCTION! HERE COMES THE LOGBOOK! -
projected from the main deflector dishes in all time lines. Or stop them. Or create a static warp shell. But do something!
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is a prick. Shriveled up piece of shite.........but at least he gives out his daughter's digits.
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the auction piece???? It was supposed to be the Black Rock/Hanso's logbook.
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I mean... wow. This is intense.
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Feb 28, 2008 8:50:40 PM CST
I need a nuclear reaction to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of elec
by biggoozoo
So if Daniel=Doc, who is Biff?
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minkowski is not likely ben's spy lol. damn When Farady mentioned the constant & Desmond reached a disconnected number... wow
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was quite a cameo. Ugh, ptht, lmpk, frmp....
Nose Bleeds
Seizure
Head falls to the side
"Thank you so much folks! Don't forget to tip your waitresses! Be here all the week...or not". -
i am assuming Desmond ends up in the brig bcz of his crazy shennanigans while on leave
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Live Desmond... Liiiiive!!!! That nosebleed doesn't look too good though. Fuck the show's almost over!!! Where did the time go!? (pun intended to the max)
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This eppy is tits.
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crazy thinking that des crossing over and screwing with his own conciousness is what puts him in the brig... but that would definately mean that it was "supposed" to happen...
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UNTIL THAT FUCKING GREY'S ANATOMY BULLSHIT SAP SONG FILLER COMMERCIAL. Now I must puke.
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does Minkowski end up in a shitty sitcom called Perfect Strangers when he goes back to the past.....Desmond better not die or we need to start sending bloody tissues too ABC in disapproval
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I loooooove Pen-aheeeee!
Don't do it Des. Don't........... -
He tells her about the island, she starts to find it. Not two realities, a self-fulfilling paradox... Course Correcting!!!
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damn this episode rules!
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for eight years. How I have wanted to say that to so many women.
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Answer the phone! It's Christmas Eve!
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...She knows, because of him, but why has she only searched for 3 years? that means she waited for 5 years.
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The same world Line that is starting to self-correct.
She said Charlie's name How did she know Charlie's name?
NOSEBLEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
I still think Kate's house's exterior looks like a Mike Brady design...
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what did that shit say? Desmond Hume will be my constant?
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No question about it.
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OK - Charlie did say his name. My fault. But this Episode - if that Penny/Des exchange was.... if you have ANY heart. Wow.
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Wow.
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play Lost back to back
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Welcome back, Desmond. Help the Doc. Screw Locke. You're my new hero.
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how is the ending not a paradox
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cool episode
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I'm bawling my eyes out. What a powerful episode.
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Kinda like drinking Orange Juice after brushing your teeth...
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AGREEMENT in my own mind. THIS the best fucking show on television. Ever.
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Constant BADASS!!!!!!
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Holy fuck.
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and have it's retarded baby Aaron. I swear to you. That was the best ending. I love Desmond.
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oh man what a ride. Kudos to the writers. This adds to all the Des episodes which have always been top notch. Behind Locke the best character although Locke has been kinda weak this season. One wish for the series for me is that Desmond and Penny reunite. Wow
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AWESOME! UNBELIEVABLE! Best Lost episode!
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And the other guy die... Mmmmmmm
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I feel at ease that Desmond talked to his constant and hence will not die now. I would lose sleep otherwise bcz the best episodes of Lost are with that Brotha. When I do shots on thurs.....It will be to Desmond Hume
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my concerns abuot this season of LOST - how its not as emotionally involving as before... I'm wrong. Thank GOD. I am very wrong. That was incredible.
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HOME FUCKING RUN!!!! INCREDIBLE EP!!
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...for a whole lot of nothing. So, am I the asshole for not really liking this one? Sorry fellas...I just don't want freaking time travel in my LOST.That being said, I do love the character of Desmond. I just have to roll my eyes every time they run with this time-displacement stuff.
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"Desmond is my constant"
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awesome. awesome. awesome. awesome.
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Oh SHIT moments. Count my vote for best this season, by far. Faraday and Des. Fightin' crime. Takin' names.
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awesome episode. just effin sweet. but how does 1996 desmond not remember his little voyage to the future anymore?
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One hundred percent great fucking television. I cried like a fucking 2 year old with a skinned knee. This episode was fucking amazing. Desmond is one of my faves and this was just incredibly cool. No matter what happens, this was awesome as shit.
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In addition to my earlier post, Desmond will end up in jail for his crazy antics displayed tonite while on leave. Now we have to watch his earlier ep bcz we know now while in jail he knew about the island which is why he has the book that he is saving to read until he dies
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best analogy ever
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he was able to contact Penny. Contacting Penny allowed his mind, which was split/inversed/transferred to the past through extreme electromagnetic pulse, to become "anchored". As Faraday said, she was his constant. When he talked to her, the anomaly corrected itself. Minkowski didn't have that, and so he finally died.
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i would guess that the reason 96 desmond doesnt remember because since he wouldnt understand the island yet he thinks it was all just a dream he had
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And who opened the locked door? ..Walt?
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To figure out how the part of penny and desmond's story from 1996 impacted the storyline told in "flashes before your eyes"
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It really depends on whether you give a shit about Des as a character or not, man. Fuck, I don't care about time travel one way or another. It's just fucking groovy as shit with the whole Desmond arc. I thought it was pretty fucking cool. A waste of the guy from Short Circuit and Hackers though...WHERE'S ZOE MOTHERFUCKIN' BELL?!!! Anyways, you say tomato I say tomato...shit, that doesn't really work in print.
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We're going to need to watch that again.
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Do you watch these episodes or jerk off during them? He was 1996 Desmond until he talked to Penny... his consciousness was jumping between the past and future, or you could even say the present and future and present and past. Once he talked to her, he disconnected from the two again... one in the past and one in the future.
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A Charlie Saves! T-shirt.
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in an assortment of colors. :D
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Who will win the World Series in 2004? $$$$$$$$
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if i had to guess im gonna go with Kevin Johnson
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When Sayid fixed the radio, he should have done so by getting a battery from Locke at the back of a winding maze cave, and then used a series of different fuses to redirect the precise amount of electricity from one end of the control panel to the other. That would have felt more "Lost".
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The reason Faraday wrote "Desmond will be my constant" is that if he gets stuck in the anomaly, Desmond is someone that he can look up in both time periods. If his future self gets thrown into the past, then he will remember desmond. If his past self gets thrown into the future, he will have that note to guide him. smart. The only question I have is, has this already happened to him? Some signs point to yes - his playing card test of last week, for instance.
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find a young Britney Spears or Lindsay Lohan, fuck them, and wait for cash cow to start paying off.
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That was a pretty sweet ride. Desmond & Penny = Adam & Eve? No? anybody? And this all happened because of the radiation that Desmond was exposed to after the hatch imploded. And yes, Kevin Johnson did indeed open door number one.
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You know, I thought this show was a bunch of hype, and that was that. I didn't understand the reason for all the hoopla...But since ABC did an amazing thing and put every single episode online for free, I caught up with the story in about a week of watching (and truly after the third episode, I was hooked through the bag like Eddie Dean)...Re-reading the Gunslinger series again...I want the guy who plays Ben Linus to play The Man In Black. I want Dominic Monaghan or the guy who plays Sawyer to play Eddie Dean...and someone said Hugh Jackman as Roland...that would work..but Damn, having Monaghan playing Dean would be fucking awesome. And he's already a buddy of JJ Abrams...(Abrams is in talks right now with King to do the series...He has my vote to do it as a series on HBO or a buncha movies)....LOST rules the fucking television school. I make time for LOST now. I'm a Lostie, I guess. Damn these writers.
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I guess that's a possibility, however i don't think anyone could ever forget something as vivid and as weird as that even if it was a dream...like once he ended up on the Island pushing the button with Kelvin, don't you think he might remember that weird little event a few years ago that seemed to prophesize himself being stuck on an island?
I could accept Razorback's explanation that once the time traveling became stopped because Des found his constant then somehow his knowledge of the whole swapping became disconnected...but I'm pretty sure 2004 Des remembered the whole experience because he referenced the little visit to Penny when he finally reached her....WHEW...
god damn time travel... what the hell is a jiggawat? -
...his past seld is anticipating becoming LOST IN TIME as well.I love this show lots.
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That might be true. A good way for an episode to end on...Michael's boat reveal.
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seld = self up there.
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It would be interesting to watch "Flashes before your eyes" and then this episode back to back. Darlton are smart enough to make sure that these episodes are copacetic.
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...Locke probably wont wanna leave but if he does feel the need....we better hope Peggy Bundy is still avail.....hmmmmm....she does the voice on a show called Futurama....coincidence?
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I would kill Hannah Montana, before it was too late. i would call myself up, and say, "Don't get to excited about the Star Wars prequels, or Matrix sequels." And I would kill younger me, so that I wouldn't have had to live the shitty life I've had since then.
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No? Son of a...
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I was worried with the whole time travel aspect of Lost. But they way they wrapped this ep up, soothed those fears. Good ep...
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Lost clicking on all cylinders
Aye -
Makes more sense now?
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That's what I thought, but Past-Desmond never mentioned flight 815 to faraday, did he? so faraday wouldn't necessarily link the two.
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Just as Star Wars turned out to be the story of ANAKIN Skywalker, not Luke as we all first thought, this is the story of Desmond and Penny, not Jack, not Kate, not Sawyer, and certainly not toolbag John Locke.
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I think you called it. if time goes by slower on the Island then that would give time for Michael to get into the shipping biz and get a boat to redeem himself, have Walt sneaking around to help open doors and explain his aging. thats the deal he made to get off the Island. The creepy thing would be that Ben knows all this and possibly and 'Good Guy'
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Just a thought..Desmond in French is like 'Des Mondes' (maybe without the second 'S' not too sure)...however you spell it it means 'The Worlds'...just a thought..besides that it rocks..this whole season does..not enough Juliet however..
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that's why she hadn't been looking. Right? But she gave him the number five years before that.
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WOW! I don't know if I'll feel this way tomorrow or next week or at the end of the season but I don't think the show, or TV, gets any better than that. Not only do we get the dramatic weight of Penny and Desmond finally talking, not only do we get all the bad-ass time travel stuff, but we learn a crapload about the actual show, what the hell is happening in the show, what's going on. ANSWERS! We get a great episode and we get answers. Fucking hell!
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I mean really fucking dumb...
This show is too intelligent for it's moron viewers.
I bet you losers think Locke is going to show up in the submarine to rescue Des and Sayid.....idiots
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But it makes sense for 2004 Desmond to remember everything because 1996 Desmond stil has to live everything to get to that point. Remember Darlton said time is fixed no back to the future stuff, time course corrects itself
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Desmond pops in from the present, during the hatch implosion. When this happens, his future self goes catatonic. Present Desmond moves back and takes over so there is no 'past Desmond' and future Desmond is unconscious in the jungle with no clothes on. When 'past Desmond' goes forward there's nothing there in the mind of 'Present Desmond', just 'Past Desmond's consciousness, while in the past, where he's vacated, it's just kind of out of sync.Timeline of Events:1. Hatch implodes after Desmond turns the key.2. Desmond's consciousness gets thrown to 1996, where he is disoriented, but understands what's happening because he's already experienced it, and so he tries to affect the future. Mrs. Hawking explains that he cannot continually change things that are simply fated to be, so he breaks it off with Penny, time's little anomaly corrects itself, and Desmond gets to see branching timelines as a side effect.My Theory: Because Desmond has continually mucked about with time, when he left the anomaly area of the island, his consciousness got flung again, but this time, the past Desmond got pulled forward, balancing the equation...finishing the line that needs to happen. Answering 'What truly made Penny hunt down and find Desmond in Los Angeles', and also fitting in with Faraday's 'everything needs a center'. Both halves now are an equation, the future has traveled to the past and the past to the future.Also, I think Ben opened the door, somehow he's on the ship and off it at the same time, which is how he can know things about the ship with no communication devices that would deliver the information. Stranger and stranger...I love this show.
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Piltdown, as compelling as Desmonds story arc is, I am fairly certain he and Penny will take the spotlight to be the Adam and Eve characters, there is still quite a bit of Lost Mythology to explore including the whole Black Rock crash landing, etc. Give it time..
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Could jacob be a consciousness that is unstuck in time - and he somehow lost his body? Also, with Miles being able to talk to dead people, the writers may be suggesting that not only do consciousnesses become unstuck in time, but when the physical body dies, the consciousness lives on. very spiritual.
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and I loved it. Another great Desmond Episode. Lost rules, plain and simple.
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make himself go back in time by shining the penlight in his own eyes. That was pretty funny. He had a couple of funny moments in this one actually.
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Well someone had to get going with insults, congratulations, perfect timing!! Excellent epidose by the way.
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I need to see it again!!! Wow!
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....get the impression that when Des walked up to dan that the college student he was talking to him was trying to tell him that he was from the future too but didnt believe him?
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Didn't the sky turn purple when the hatch blew?
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a lot of people were thinkin or making theories about the present being 2007 and the island being outta wack with time but we saw on the boat, it is indeed 2004. and this would help explain why aaron is older in the flash forwards, because those are likely 2007, or least the ones involving kate and the kid.
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The supposed "box" on the island that ben said you could get anything you wanted out of. Then, he produced Locke's father. how the fuck did Locke's father get on the fucking island? insanity. At this point, I am fully confident these loose ends will be tied up.
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you know, even ben himself mentions in an older episode about the sky turning purple but unless my colors were screwed up, it never looked purple to me. was just a very bright white.
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I hear ya. And like I said, I do love the character of Desmond. The time-travel/displacement stuff has always seemed a little out of place (no pun intended) within the context of the show. And I know that probably sounds odd considering the million other tiny little mysteries happening on the Island. But if his time arc is now completed, then I suppose it was handled well.And yes, that was a waste of ol' Fisher. I wonder if we'll see him again...
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He didn't specifically mention 815, but my impression was that Faraday had spent the time since he met Desmond looking for anomolies etc. and even though we didn't see the backstory of that, he KNEW that the crash has the event he had been looking for.
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you asked why Penny was only looking for Desmond for 3 years if she already knew about the island. Well Desmond has only been missing for 3 years, so for that 5 years before he left for the race she had no reason to go out looking for the island. It was only after he went missing during the race that she would realize the importance of finding the island.
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Locke's father says what happened. He was hit from behind in a car in Florida out of nowhere. He was in pretty bad shape, and then the last thing he saw were the paramedics putting him under and he woke up on the island. So, if Ben can send stuff through time, he can tell his goons to make sure they do all the stuff necessary to bring Locke's dad to the island.
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I myself as others have felt the tail section was a way for ABC to extend the show to make money.....but have heard Ecko was intended to have more use but in real life told the producers due to personal conflicts left the show and hi stint was ended abruptly. I say this declaring that he was my fav charc aside from Desmond
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That might be the most awful thing I've heard someone say. Brutha - get someone to talk to, preferably someone in a counseling profession. Even if you were kidding, that came out a little too genuine. Life is good my friend - even if all ya got is Thursday from 9-10
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Wouldn't it be funny as we get towards the end of the series and right before Locke dies(if he does), he discovers who Benjamin Linus realy is.... Alvo Hanso who also is the head of the Millenium Group...
"Well John, this is who we are.....Goodbye John"
Would definately be a funny nod to Millenium
Ill buy that for a dollar!!!!!!! -
Yeah, but wasn't that after the submarine got all blown up? So that indicates that Ben has other ways to get off the island. Which I guess we can assume, but that is clear proof. And whatever way it is, it avoid any of this electromagnetic stuff that happens if you fly in.
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For some reason my video redo is not working with my Windows Media version of LOST. This has never happened before and I am clueless. I guess I'll convert it than stick it in Video ReDo and see what happens. This delays my calling to torrent up LOST to all that want and need this elixer of Life.
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Sorry, I just can't get Fisher Stevens' character outta my mind whenever I see him..."Come at me! Are you NUTS?" hahaha
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Maybe of any show ever made. Seriously.
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I think it's been established that there is no phsical time travel, just mental/conciousness/etc time travel. So any current losties being adam & eve make wouldnt make sense.
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Yea i can accept that 96 desmond would lose all memory to correct the course of time...but how about penny? i think past episodes show that Desmond and Penny def do contact each other again (and maybe even get back together?) because:
1. I doubt Penny has put her letter to Des in his copy of 'Our Mutual Friend' yet as of 1996 from what we have seen
2. Desmond has contact with the widmores again or possibly just Charles Widmore and is sent to military prison because of him or something to do with him? which is why he wants to get back at him by winning his own race around the world. Even if he doesn't get sent to prison because of Widmore, then there is obviously some event after 1996 that causes such hatred for the guy
Kind of strange that Penny never brings this up again. It's not like Desmond pulled a Doc Brown and lectured her on the dangers of not knowing too much about your own future to keep from ruining the timeline...she didn't even know he was experiencing time travel... -
....Aaron turns out to be someone who Jack does not like when he grows up...like........hmmmm......Ben. I'm no rocket phyisist (or speller) but with time travel who knows. That would explain why he does want to see him. and if Ben has 'been' lol on the Island awhile.....and I've never seen Jack's mother in any episodes. F'in freaky!
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I would seriously invest in some Apple Computer stock.
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remember the polar bear skeleton in the desert?
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i dunno if it exists in the lost world but the orchid orientation film suggests that it does...
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Well, does Desmond need a sub to 'get off the island'?No, and that's what the Magic Box does, it sends you around and can be your constant, I bet. You get to go all over the place in your life which is why Michael (not 815, but the Hostile) tells Ben he has to be patient to 'be with them'.Ben also says 'I needed spinal surgery, and the following day a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky. If that's not proof of God then I don't know what is.'That's why the Others lie, the Hostiles lie, everyone on the island who knows what's up lies to make sure that no one screws up the timeline beyond repair.
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Just sittin' here, buyin' the Black Rock first officer's log. Oh, hey, Desmond. Time travelling, eh? Here's Penelope's address. Doo doo doo. IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG DESMOND IS MY CONSTANT. Seriously though, holy shit. That was maybe the best episode of Lost. Damn. I hope those writers didn't lose any creative momentum over the strike break, because if they can keep it up with the new new episodes, this might be the best season of a TV show ever. Wow.
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and cried all over again. :) I think Sayid may have fallen in love with Des a little at the end there. But then again Sayid falls in love with everyone. I just wish "Eggtown" wasn't in between this episode and "The Economist". That episode totally unpsyched me for this one.
So here's my question. Who opened the door so Des, Sayid, and Minikowski could get out? Here's my other question. Who was the other person bidding on the Hanso journal from the Black Rock? -
"The Box" was just a metaphor for that the Others can get a hold of anything they wanted. They explain how they got Locke's father on the island, they posed as paramedics and kidnapped him after he got in a car accident, possibly set up by the others. I know alot happens on this show and it gets complicated, but come one guys, sometimes you do just have to read between the lines instead of waiting for every little detail to be explained to you.
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has got to be Ben's mole. I'm pretty sure who it is but I'll keep it a spoiler free post. There are already pics of this individual out on the net of their scenes filmed on the freighter
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Michael. You know it has to be him, right?
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hmm? to be a dick? or to somehow spur desmond's jump through time? What if widmore is like Ms. Hawking?
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My mind is baked from that one, brilliant.
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I was just guessing. I'm unspoiled, so I really don't know.
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Is it Cynthia Watros?
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What if someone could get their past and present consciousness to COEXIST? That would result in a Ms. Hawking, or maybe even BEN LINUS. There may be a whole network of people whose consciousnesses are open to all time phases. wouldn't that be a mindfuck.
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the female voice, Regina, is Zoe Bell, the stuntwoman from Death Proof. She is in the guest star credits every epsiode where Regina talks and it sounds just like her.
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You are assuming a lot there. Yeah, they posed as paramedics. But as of now there is no known way for them to get locke's father to the island with no side effects. Can you "read between the lines" to figure that one out too, hmm?
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the minute Des touched the faucet and went forward in time, I thought of Donnie Darko and that wacky metal and water explanation of time travel. I figured it was a shout-out.
And it doesn't necessarily have to be Michael who opened the door. It could be Walt or Mikhail, or even the Navy guy from the Village People. You never know with this show. -
If we all get laid tonight, it's because of Desmond Hume
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...may have wound up there due to time travel?? ...and is Jacob and the shack somehow stuck in a time warp and just popping up every so often??
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Zoë Bell, whom you may remember from 'Death Proof.' Look her up. I can't wait to see her later this season.
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Mmmm... Zoe Bell...
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http://tinyurl.com/245g2p and someone else familiar...
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But you don't know that the others can travel on and off the island with no side-effects, remember both Ben and Alpert were off the island in order to recruit Juliet and neither of them have exhibited any side-effects so far in the show. And I understand I'm assuming alot with my post but my main point was that I don't the "the box" is an actual box I just think it was Ben being metaphorical. And I didn't mean for that previous post to come off so asshole-ish, so I apologize for that one. Should've thrown in some "lol's" or something, hahaha
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i am wondering if the condition des and minkowski are experiencing is 'the sickness' rousseau, kelvin, hell all of dharma, etc were so afraid of? and it wasn't psych-experiment BS? just a thought...
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Desmond gets a set of keys when he checks out of jail w/ a gold watch. I propose that set of keys turns the failsafe
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Here's his timeline...I'll denote when the Desmond is (F)uture Desmond/2004 to the past, (U)naffected/Unknown Affect Desmond, and (P)ast Desmond/1990s to the future.
Timeline -
1989 - Desmond begins dating Ruth (U) ("Catch-22")
1995 - A week before marrying Ruth, Desmond gets drunk and is found by Brother Campbell. Desmond joins the monastery, and is expelled...meets Penelope Widmore. (U) ("Catch-22") (Note: Brother Campbell has a photo of himself with Mrs. Hawking)
1996 - Desmond asks Charles Widmore to marry Penelope, who refuses. He meets Charlie playing on a street corner, and decides to break up with Penny. (U) - Desmond returns to 1996 because of the implosion, and decides to change the past, but ultimately, Penelope throws the ring into the Thames. (F) ("It Flashes Before Your Eyes")
- Desmond interacts with Daniel Faraday at Queens College Oxford, becoming Faraday's constant. ("The Constant")(P)- Desmond tells Penny to expect a call on Christmas Eve 2004, and gets her number to cement Penny as Desmond's constant. (P) ("The Constant")
1996 (circa) - 1999 - Desmond completes his prison sentence and is discharged from the military. Charles Widmore immediately attempts to bribe Desmond to 'run away and forget Penny'. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")
2001 - Desmond meets Libby at a coffee shop, shortly after arriving in the US, Los Angeles. She loans him her boat to enter a one man race around the world. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")- Penelope tracks Desmond down to the stadium where he and Jack meet for the first time, and confronts him. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")- Desmond begins the boat race in Libby's boat. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")
- Desmond arrives on the island and begins to push the button (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")
2004 - After accidentally killing Kelvin, Desmond causes the system failure that brings the plane to the island (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")
During the period between the crash and November 1st, 2004 Desmond is assumed to be sitting in the magnetic anomaly, pushing the button.The rest of the Des eps should be taken as read. -
What about the mouse that runs the maze because it will learn how in an hour but in an hour it's dead. Or, Desmond Saves Charlie's life twice, but if he hadn't Charlie would have died the third time and the freighter would never have found them. So which part is fate?
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In 'Live together Die Alone' Windmore says one of these boxes contains your past and one contains your future. I think he knows Des can time travel and does not want Penny to befall the great responsibilty as Adam and eve
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Here's what killed the rat: It's the same thing that would have killed Jake Chambers in The Dark Tower, knowing that it was dead, yet alive, bouncing back and forth in his head until it just popped. That's what I think. Also, if Dan doesn't train the rat, tries to change it, it has no constant, no focus, and pops. That's no paradox, that's time crushing out a paradox before it happens. The anomaly was the rat performing a fleeting act that only is anecdotal, really. Which is probably why the DHARMA guys film a lot of stuff, so it's able to be referenced in a solidly stuck state.Just my idea.
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what if the guy Penny is supposed to marry and is celebrating x-mas with is Jack. how does that work out? my mind is swirling!
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Desmond saves Charlie, but Charlie's the one who follows what Desmond sees as the future rather than avoid death. The freighter was already near, and it's because Desmond turns the key and implodes the hatch.
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Cooler than Fox Mulder singing the theme from Shaft?
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I liked Angel, but I don't think it ever surpassed Buffy. Maybe an episode or two, but for the most part I prefer Buff. And I am male, so take that for what it's worth.
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Torrented up and seeding for our friends in the UK and elsewhere. When I cut the commercials out I didn't have the heart to edit out the Iron Man trailer. Tough Noogies. That was absolutely the best hour of TV in a LONG frakin time.
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That would be really lame. This idea is becoming the "it's all a dream" or the "they're all in purgatory" of season 4.
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Because if the bad time-guys have won, 815 hits the ocean instead of the island, I think...That's what's making him cry, but because he's already not certain where or when he is, he's having a hard time remembering just why this is a bad thing...AWESOME SHOW.
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I have to agree with Krycek. I love the show, and some of the speculation is fun, but some of the theories you guys throw out there are stupider than shit. I mean, really.
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You may be right about it being a metaphorical box. but interestingly enough, over at the avclub.com, the blogger for LOST also mentions Ben's "magic box":
"-Remember Ben’s “magic box,” and how he used it to bring Locke’s dad to the island? I’m guessing—and this is no earth-shattering realization, I’ll grant—that Ben has figured out how to exploit the island’s time-traveling properties, and that he had “the man from Tallahassee” plucked from the timeline. But if so, then Ben’s method of travel must be far different from Desmond’s, because Ben can actually get things."
Now, I don't think he's right on this count, but I think it sort of shows that you can never take anything at face value in this show. Cuse, Lindelof, and Abrams are playing it pretty straight, but it's only straight on their terms. Which so far have pretty much kept everyone guessing (I certainly haven't been able to predict anything that has happened on this show, from what was in the hatch to what happened to desmond). These guys are really operating on a whole different level of tv storytelling. I think we should really enjoy this, because I doubt something like LOST will happen again for a very long time.
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Mmm. Something about Angel resonated with me more than Buffy - tho I loved them both. Angel was darker, and when Wesley was transformed by having his throat slit and everyone dear to him basically saying "fuck off and die" while he recovered...THAT Wes is among my top 5 favorite characters of all time. So - personal preference.
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Besides the fact that its a good show. Anyone else the cross pollination of actors? The Dr. Ray from the Lost show was the guy Eli's firm paid to stay hidden. How about that for a lost twist.
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I think it was Ben who told the group, since he knew everything about the shippies or whatever you call them.
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Now, this show is inarguably the absolute best thing to ever happen to TV. I was just completely blown away and just can't believe that this is actually getting better each time I see a new episode. I'm so overjoyed, I'm just going to say a few non-spoilery things:
1. Pink light... already just a few pages into VALIS and I'm already seeing connections. i.e. Pink lazer.
2. The new actors are ALL great.
3. The writing just gets better and better.
4. I'm going to try and collect the brains that flew out of the back of my head after viewing this episode and piece them together.
5. A quick question. In case things go really bad in this talkback, would anyone here be interested in being my constant? -
Amazing time-travel story. So well done. And something no one seems to have mentioned, with all the (well deserved) Desmond love:
Sayid, as usual, kicked twenty kinds of ass all over town. Love that guy.
I liked that Faraday's sun-lamp time freaky thingy and the hatch exploding are the same kind of technology. Thank you, Lost writers, for helping to root this story in sci-fi, and shift it just that much further away from any religious silliness. That shit was getting annoying.
Let's all raise a glass to Penny and Desmond! -
Amazing writing, great acting and execution. Brilliant! It left me and my wife both crying and I'm not ashamed to say it. Bravo!
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Glass raised. Funny note... I knew when I came here right after viewing the episode that all I'd have to do is click on any subject on the site, look to my right and just click on the top talkback. Hell, I didn't even read what it was, I just knew. Number 1. After viewing this episode, I just knew it'd be the "talk of the town" so to speak. People who have never seen this show before should be shown this episode. They'll be hooked.
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That was a good turn of phrase - making certain you are calling theories dumb shit and not the people dumb as shit, which is what krycek did. And in my world - you better be one card carrying MENSA member and high "EQ" (yes - EQ)individual to call ANYONE a dumb shit. Of course, if you had a high EQ, you wouldn't have the need to call other people names to make yourself feel more intelligent. Half the fun is fielding any theories that can be batted around without worry of being castigated. I've seen people correct"dumb" theories and the TBer becomes all the wiser. NOw - if he INSISTS on shit - than he truly might be an idiot. But damn krycek, did you really have to do that?
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What the hell does that mean? Are you using MacGuffin as meaning "decoy?" Because if you are, that's not what a MacGuffin is.
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Not ashamed you were crying - or have a wife? j/k
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please refer to said flashback at 8:38:31 time in talkback.
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How come Desmond doesn't remember Sayid or Daniel? His '96 consciousness has seen them both, so living up to 2004 he should remember them but he doesn't.
faraday gives desmond calculations in 2004 from his journal, which desmond gives to faraday in 1996. faraday then uses these calculations, and would then in turn write them down in his journal. So the only reason he knows them is because his future self knows them? THAT IS A PARADOX OF TIME TRAVEL! -
made you look turdbrains!
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..at least the aspects of his personality that are more.. abrasive. I for one REALLY appreciate being corrected if my "theories" are wrong. A lot of us are just throwing ideas and thoughts out there, not really calling any of them concrete or definitive. I don't take it personally when I've been wrong and try my best not to rub it in if I've been right. But I can say one thing for sure, there are most likely NO idiots here. Excited fanboys, maybe. Outlandish speculation, absolutely. But idiots? Beyond the obvious ones who come here to flame or troll, I've seen none.
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I just thought it would be funny to include the time of my original post knowing they would look and being able to say 'That I told them what time it was' ah ha
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Well said. cept I dumped "MY" Penny in a drunkin stupor never able to repair the damage. So I am, to this day, an idiot. But I can live with that :D
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Did anyone notice... Farady and Minkowski? Two well-known names in the realm of science... just a clever little homage to scientists, or a hint at something?
I had to go look it up, I couldn't remember if it was Daniel Farady or Michael Farady. Well, it's Michael, but Minkowski the scientist's first name is in fact George.
Hmm... what if everyone involved with Dharma (which I tend to assume is somehow involved with the boat) is a collection of scientists from years past who have met up across time for some purpose?
Or something. :) -
flashback episode.
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happened on Dec. 26, 04. Will the show reference it?
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Everything happens for a reason, right? I had a "penny", too. And when I got a second chance, it turned out she was more of a "Kate". You can never really go back. Well... unless you're in the right place, brother.
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Desmond in 1996 can be separated into 'Desmond who has yet to time travel-consciousness' and 'Desmond who has usurped the body from the future'. The Desmond from the future returns to the future, allowing the 1996 Des to take the body back over, what's really interesting is that the fleeting moments of time travel in this ep are the same kind of back and forth in 'It Flashes Before Your Eyes' Moments where he's back in time, and moments where he's on the island in the 'present'.
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Have you found any significant parallells yet?
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Its like how all the names of bad guys in Hot Fuzz were Penis references!!!! You think Simon Pegg will show up in lost? He is in Star Trek. How crazy would it be if the final episode of lost connected to the movie of Star Trek and it was the NC17-1701 that crashed on the island and the engines are what is causing radiation and fucking with peoples head and then along comes Ethan Hunt, because him and ONLY him can see a car crash and help.....felicity.
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Yeah, the feminist overtones of Buffy greatly appealed to me as well as the lighter tone. Angel was (appropriate to the character) a bit more dramatic, a bit more self-serious. I liked it, just not as much. Though I'll definitely agree that last season of Angel was f'ing awesome. But I'm biased. I love Spike and a lot of those episodes were Ben Edlund heavy.
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out there like a dart on a dart board. I'm just hoping that someone here grabs it and adds more than i can. lets celebrate the bomb shit that was tonites ep
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Just throwing it out there as he clearly is interested in Island related memrobilia.
Also is it possible Rousseau's crewmates "sickness" was the Brain aneurism time traveling "strange behaviour" that caused her to exterminate them ? (Though I would guess it the incorrect exit not the entrance from the Island that causes the extreme effects if not on the correct heading.i.e. Helicopter, Subs and Michael and Walts boats bearing.)
BTW is Michael being the Spy on the Boat, smashing Radios and leaving doors open, far too obvious or am I missing something ? Who is "the captain" ? I'm looking forward to that reveal myself.
If Desmond is Faraday's anchor then Desmond is not going home anytime soon unless Faraday leaves the Island at the end of this season.(Also we have still to find out why Desmond was doing hard time in the Military Prison.)
Clearly Rock Solid stuff though. Now all we need is a real Ben V Locke over Jacob style showdown. -
God I love when LOST breaks the formula once in a while...did anyone else miss the "flashback/forward sound effect" tonight? I sure didn't!! The best one was was when Des fell in the stairwell in '96 and landed against the desk in '04. Superb editing.
My thoughts on "The Constant"...
- Christmas finally addressed! Now wondering if Locke was planning a "Christmas Dinner" at 6pm in "Eggtown" last week.
- Penny knows about the island. Hmmmm...just from the call from the Portugese Arctic Igloo Duo (P.A.I.D.)...or from snooping around in Dad's private affairs?
- Charles Widmore is interested in all things Magnus Hanso? Why does he want that journal so badly?
- Charles actually POINTS Des TOWARDS Penelope? Usually he's trying to get him as far away from her as possible...interesting shift that I think will have bigger significance later.
- Freight People. Omar? Wasn't that the freighter captain's name in Raiders? Speaking of the captain...who is the dude behind the binocculars? Boy, Fisher Stevens sure wasn't around long...wierd that he only lasted one episode. Probably see him in a flashback soon.
- Coordinate 305...same as the one Ben gave Michael...Anyone else still convinced Mike's Ben's "man" on the boat...who "opens locked doors" for people? I still say it's someone else...Mike is a red herring, IMO. We'll see...
- Thunderhead. Natural phenomenon...or man made island cloaking device? Rousseau arrived in a storm disabling her boat...same with Desmond...and probably with The Black Rock. Sure came outta nowhere on a beautiful sunny day, huh? Possibly another "security system" not unlike Smokie?
- Daniel kicks ass, man! In a series of impossibly great, well conceived characters (Locke and Ben come to mind), how LOST is able to top itself with new characters is amazing. So...he came to the island knowing he may at some point need a constant? Charlotte and the boys on the boat sure were tense when he started teling "secrets" about the time anomoly...I think they are being instructed to keep the island, and all it's mysteries, a secret...which certainly makes their cover as a "rescue" team moot.
- Time "Travel"...well my worst fears were put to rest...Desmond did not hop in a DeLorean and set the flux capacitor to 1996...his "consciousness" travels...not his body. Fine with me...especially tying it in with his exposure to the hatch implosion disaster. Very organic...and puts to rest my fears that LOST was going to turn into a very sci-fi "Stargatey" type show. Also glad it appears Desmond is the only one with this unique ability...well, so far...we can talk about Walt later.
- Pen & Des reunite on the phone. Pure genious. What a startlingly well edited scene, too...with their dialog overlapping at the end of the conversation. I got misty, I'll admit it....and that's hard to do.
I could go on all night about this mind blowing episode. Again...LOTS of questions raised....with answers only slowly trickling in. But that's fine by me. Everyone say a prayer for Eloise tonight...and thanks for that Desmond timeline, micturatingbenjiman...that puts things in perspective nicely...but I will still argue that Libby did not randomly "meet" Des in that coffee shop...and casually let him "borrow" her boat. I think Libby was PAID to meet Desmond in that coffee shop...and PAID to give her A boat...not HER boat...I'll even argue that Libby's name isn't even "Elizabeth"....but a cover name. She's tied to Charles Widmore or my name isn't Chief Brody.
Well...it's not...it's Cheif Brody...don't even get me started.
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I don't have any problem with speculating. As I said in the last message board, its just that some of the theories seem to completely miss the point of the show. I've been watching the show pretty avidly for 3 plus seasons now, and I (along with many people who watch the show) have developed a feel for the kind of story LOST is telling. My friends and some of you on this board throw out interesting ideas and speculation about how various pieces of the puzzle might fit together. Others, however, say stupid shit that doens't make any sense and has only a tenuous link to anything ever seen or suggested by the actual show. It annoys me that people who don't seem to understand this show I love get to have an equal voice with those of you who thoughtfully approach your ponderings and offer educated theories about what has and will happen over the course of the series.
Also, i'm an arrogant asshole. And I read Japanese Surrealism. -
I don't know if anyone's had this theory before, but I think that Ben's "magic box" is really Walt. It's been implied again and again that Walt has the ability to transport himself and other objects through space, maybe instantaneously. Like the episode (S1) where he's reading about an exotic bird, then one flies into the window. I vaguely recall another episode (end of S2 ... 'three minutes' maybe?) where someone asks if they've ever seen Walt appear somewhere that he wasn't supposed to be. Then there's the fact that multiple characters on multiple occasions have seen Walt nearby when he should have been far away.
It's plausible that Ben didn't really let Michael and Walt leave at the end of S2. It seemed like the others needed Walt pretty badly, and this would explain why - perhaps Ben's world-hopping and wealth gained in the outside world has depended on Walt's abilities. Perhaps Walt is Ben's "constant" ?
Just some thoughts ... -
now that's what i call mind f**ING!
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First and second chapter only. But yes. The "sane insane" stuff, the "pink laser-pink light" bits. Horselover Fat's NEED to help people being something that has led to complications in his life. Horeselover crying while watching TV. I'm sure there's a LOT more, but it needs to sink in a bit more. I've actually been highlighting the connections I see.
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I agree with G100 here, I was thinking through the whole economist episode that pennys dad was her boss.
Also it seems pretty likely to me that he's the captain, but considering a billionaire would never be the captain of a tiny freighter, he is funding it. I also think he has known that Desmond was meant to go to that island and thats the real reason why he has been such a douche, because obviously there was some significance to Desmonds statement when he asked why do you hate me so much?
I think that either he was in contact with daniel and thats where he told desmond where to find penny because he knew it was important that she was his anchor.
It would also make sense for the fact that Penny knew about an island at all like she mentioned in this episode.
I bet you next weeks big reveal will either be michael as the spy on the boat or that Charles widmore is on the boat. -
there was no flashback/flashfoward sound because there were none ....i thought that was obvious.....it wasnt a flashback, desmonds consciousness was literally moving back btween the two time periods. thats how he could bend over or fall in one time period and it continues into the other
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...who cried at the end? Shit, what's wrong with me?
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u mean when him an penny finally spoke on the phone ? yes it was quite nice, i got kinda misty too
hope about farday finding the note in his book that desmond is his constant....explains why he sent him to see himself so he has a safety net just incase he has "side effects" -
but there were other people in the room so i didnt
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whoops just re-read ur post, i thought u just missed it , but u really didnt , u were happy it wasnt there , sorry....lol
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I'm still kind of upset that they threw in the time travel stuff, because if you think about it a little then it makes no sense. But if you do what Austin Powers' friend said in the second one and just don't think about it, it's great. So does tonight's ep. explain why Des was in prison? My guess is he went AWOL to see Faraday at Oxford and that's why. Also, tonight it seems that Des and Penny didn't talk from the time he got her phone # and the call from the boat, but in the past she met him at the track when he met Jack, after getting out of jail but before going sailing to the island. And how awesome that her dad was bidding on the diary of Captain HANSO of the black rock? Seems like someone mentioned here before that Hanso was the captain, but was that just speculation or did they already say that and I missed it. Does Hanso's diary tell Mr. Widmore about time travel and healing properties of the island? Damn, I wish I could jump to my future self and have a marathon Lost DVD viewing and find out how this thing ends!!
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now that he's found his constant? Or is he just fucked up in the head because of all the time travel. Great episode.
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The only reason I see for your post is for someone to post what I'm about to post: "What, in your opinion, is the point of the show?"Now, give us your opinion, and when you get your WGA card, and fly out to Oahu and start writing the show, I'll give anything you say MORE credence than anything else I read. However, since you're just a fan, and bravo for being on the bandwagon all up in the front seat, we backseat riders have theories and shit, too, man. Damn, there's always one guy like this around to play 'Old hand'. So, I'll bite, man. You've admitted arrogance, and I don't see that, but you haven't said much in the way of theories either...So, tell me, what's it all about Alfie? What's the point of 'Lost'?
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1) I haven't read all the comments above, but how could the psychic be a fraud and intentionally convince Claire to board Flight 815 to stick Aaron on the island if the crash was an accident because Desmond did not push the button? Someone must have foreseen it. The psychic was either genuine, or the person who paid him had knowledge of the future.
2) My prediction: Claire doesn't die anytime soon. She was left behind on the island, and that's the source of Jack's discomfort with Kate's raising Aaron as her own. Jack then finds out that Claire is his sister in between the early flash-forwards and the latest one in the season three finale. Perhaps he found a photo or correspondence in dad's old papers and used his golden ticket to visit Claire's mom. That pushes him even more into despair and accounts for his desire to go back to the island in order to save his sister. I, of course, could be proven completely wrong. -
Who's the real and final focus of this story? Sure, we're all following these characters, but in the end there really is only one main character and his (maybe her) story.
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Hey, I was about as much an outspoken critic as anyone in the past about this show -- that it was dragging and just throwing out mysteries for the sake of mysteries, as if THAT alone made it cool. But so far these latest episodes actually seem to be GOING somewhere...they actually feel satisfying by the end...and that alone is a very, very, very welcome relief.
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I KNOW there were no "flashbacks/forwards" in tonight's episode...hence my "breaking the formula" opening line in my previous post.
It never fails to amaze me how TPTB "play" with the standard conventions of the show from time to time. Thus, I did not "miss" the FF/FB sound effect tonight...I kinda welcome it when they take a break from that. -
Mathew Abaddon. I liked to see more of him after the tease we got in the first two episodes
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Mathew Abaddon. I liked to see more of him after the tease we got in the first two episodes
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Mathew Abaddon. I liked to see more of him after the tease we got in the first two episodes
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Desmond has become unstuck in time. Poh-to-weet
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At first I was dissapointed that there was not going to be any of Locke's people in the episode.
But there was so much to this one even though it just had Desmond. And that scene with Penny at the end? Phonomenal. Gives me hope for an otherwise meh season. -
In the time it took me to type my last post...you were posting that you had re-read my original post and saw what I was talking about.
I have a feeling the next time they play with the original FB/FF format will be Episode 8...the Michael-centric episode.
I have a feeling it will be set ENTIRELY in the future...with flashbacks to how he and Walt were able to escape Craphole Island...and what they've been up to since returning to the states.
And...possibly how he ended up in that coffin everyone's been talking about. -
the more i believe micheal is in the coffin. It just makes the most sense. After micheal dies, walt might help jack find the island. But why would Micheal have his funeral in LA?
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He said that what was happening to him would start happening to all of them as they get back to the island. So have the boat people all been to the island before? I thought maybe it was just that he was "remembering" being on the island in the future, but it doesn't look like he'll be going there in the future since he's dead. So when were these people there and what were they doing?
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She gets nude in Gia. And performs super acts of total L'espionage with none other than Angelina Jolie. Have fun.
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Well...he was originally headed there on Flight 815 wasn't he?
My guess..Michael had no choice about where he was "laid to rest"...as, unlike the "Oceanic 6", who got to return with their original identities...I think Mike was FORCED to take a new identity...a new job...new SS#...a new apartment, etc...and forced to lie about his TRUE identity as an Flight 815, Craphole Island survivor.
I think Jack was so surprised at the Hoffs-Drawler funeral home, because he AT LEAST expected Walt to be there...but I don't think Walt ever made it off the island with Michael. -
Your first comment is one of my biggest questions about Lost. If the Claire's psychic is a fraud, as he claims to be in a Mr. Eko episode, then how did he know the plane was gonna go down, especially since, according to ABC, the definitive reason 815 went down is because Desmond wasn't there to push the button... There is an incongruity that I hope is explained, but I fear is an error...
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I have to give it up to the writers when they actually do their job, and tonight, they actually did for a change. This was a very compelling episode, but Desmond eps have a track record of curtailing the mediocrity brought on by characters like Claire, Jin, Sun, Bernard, Rose, etc. This is why I still watch. Because I want every episode to be like this. Every other episode this season has largely consisted of people breaking away from one group to join another, walking back and forth between each camp trying to get one thing or another straight. It's been BORING! But this is what I look for when I give Lost a chance and watch it. I want storytelling like tonight. And all you people who are still hanging on to a grudge because I didn't kiss Carlton and Damon's asses for the lackluster rest of the season are ridiculous and need to get over it. I've barely posted recently and you people are STILL bringing me up, STILL trying to paint me as pretentious simply for defending myself when someone said I had a short attention span, etc. I mean, give me a fucking chance to upset the apple cart again before you choose to forever remember me as some rabblerousing troll which I am not. Great episode. It's a shame that they refuse to push the show to this level every week.
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I think you're all wrong. It's clear to me who the captain is--it's Ben. Watch the Orchid video again, think about other things you've seen, and it will make sense. It makes Ben's line, "I have a man on that boat" all the more slick.
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the critics that would chance a throw at a bitch session against a Lost episode have crawled into a hole of some I told you soooo. FUCK OFF I am glad to witness the most brilliant episode of tv writing ever! If the rest is less than it is 2nd to greatness and better than george lucas' idea of a follow up. debate that in ur Eli Stone talkbacks hormongers
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Desmond's moving back and forth in time is straight out of "Slaughterhouse Five". Maybe Kurt Vonnegut was on to something.
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I like the fact that ur honest. i know many that have lost faith in the more questions and less answers hub bub. BUT I as most think the reason I liked this ep is bcz I sense a turning point ( jump the shark as you would but w/ a steady incline)where it is gonna become more about clarity than questions
This Ep was brilliance -
Oh .....and dont forget that this is the anniversary of the most watched telecast in tv history with the MASH finally. coicindence? I think not
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this is a test
this is a test
this is a test -
does bold work too?
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and he saved the universe....but you stupid lost fucks think this is cutting edge....christ, it is one of the most derivative series ever created
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Freighter Desmond is often just staring at the ground/into space and I think this is because of his meta-consciousness - although he is standing there on the boat, as his past self is changing particular events (by calling Pen-ahee or visiting Danny), he is seeing these things happening as he stands there on the boat. It's like "time" is a large painting...he sees everything at once, and he is watching someone(himself in this case) paint some changes in one corner of the canvas.
His past/army self is what, 8 years younger - clueless as to what is to become...and that consciousness is swapped with freighter Des who has 8 years of experiences to draw on. But that consciousness is learning by "seeing" all that is happening and changing in his past. When their full consciousnesses switch back, army Des will NOT obviously be the same - he has seen the future now and his actions for the next 8 years will be dictated by these events. Whew. Need a Percocet.
My God this is mind bending...but I got it. And it is no wonder the brain bleeds from the experience. It's too much psychic energy for the brain to handle.
I think Dharma was trying to physically manifest what some were able to do with their consciousnesses. Hence tragic accidents and Bunny 15. I CANNOT WAIT until we get more Marvin Candle/Wickmund and see what they are up to. My nose is bleeding.
Thanks Gotilk. I'd settle for a "Kate". It seems all I find are the "Libbys". Not the meeting Desmond with magic boat Libbys. The institutionalized Libbys.
micturatingbenjamin, don't let Maxwell get to you. I pointed out a now commonly known easter egg - Miles went to Ghost bust that woman's son, the "spirit" pointed him to the money and heroin. It seems the picture on the lady's wall by the stairs look just like the pic that was taken of Eko and Yemi. He went into this clever diatribe about how I'm insinuating all blacks look alike. He can be pompous and his little jokes make it clear he secretly admires Sick Fixx. At least he is up front about his arrogence. SOme use these forums to get a chip to place squarelty on their shoulder. No offense Maxwell-you are certainly educated and quite witty. Your humor reminds me of Dennnis Miller - and I like Dennis Miller. But boy - as you did with me a couple weeks ago, you sure can come off like as ass. As can I - but God I try not too. I hate that aspect of my personality.
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bacci40 relishes that aspect of his personality. I get a good hearty laugh from those that can feel like a big man calling people "fucks" on a TB. If you are going to call someone names, Christ don't do it in a medium where there is no consequence. Go to the Quik Mart and indiscriminately call someone a fuck. I'll pay for the ice for your face.
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Good God - how many years ago has that been already? I'm in my upper 30s and I vaguely remember watching it.
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Great job by the Lost fucks! More insightful comments per post than any TB on the net. Book it.
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STUPID Lost Fucks. My bad.
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just a short peek - Danny and CS get cool white biohaz parkas. Sweet
"if you want us to stop you're going to have to shoot us" -
2 hours of sleep for work. Poor students. Not getting my best on Friday - but boy if they have questions about Lost.....
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Sucks to have your birthday today.
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Eloise in the maze was a jaw dropper. Daniel is fast becoming one of my favorite characters. Des and Penny talking again for the first time in years was great too. Best Ep of the series so far which is saying a lot. One of the few shows that get's better each week. It was classic Lost raising as many questions as it answers.
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but then how did Penny know to wait for his call in '04? And paradoxically, why did Daniel seem to not remember Des? I must be Lost, or something...
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We'll just put bags over our heads for a minute...OMG THE FUTURE BEES US!
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Daniel Faraday has a blippy memory. They established that, so he doesn't remember a lot of stuff.
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1.) Just when this series was getting good again they toss in a complete filler episode that has nothing to do with any of the characters I'm interested in.2.) Why do people complain about the commercials? Why don't you just do what I do and fast forward through them, blipvert style?3.) Seriously, I tape Lost and Eli Stone, then watch Lipstick Jungle, then copy Lost with the ads edited out, then watch Stone. Best triple feature night on TV this year.4.) No, really, if it wasn't for Lost, Eli Stone, Cashmere Mafia, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, Private Practice and Pushing Daisies, I wouldn't watch ABC at all. Now that they canceled Big Shots and Cavemen, I mean.5.)I sure hope National cancels Journeyman, though. I wasted three hours giving that piece a chance and totally hated it.6.) Of course I mean it. Every word. I don't care if your interests are different than mine or you have better taste. All that means is that you're better than I am. so? Whatcha gonna do about it, come to my house and educate me?7.) Yes, i said Lipstick Jungle. You wish your show had a pantyless Brooke Shields banging Paul Blackthorne up against a running washing machine. What does your show have, a couple of scruffy unwashed hobos getting it on in a bear cage?8.) LOL
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that the heading jeff fahey followed in the chopper (cheat sheet) was 305 and ben told mike and walt to follow 315? or am i wrong?
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I guess that's why Walt's now...taller? Does the time door swing both ways?
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I believe that you meant popkins, and Gunslingers don't like mayo on them. Looks too much like spooge.
Poppins is that british nanny with the umbrella. Gunslingers would likely eat her as well, if that got them any closer to their goal. -
Up until now, watching LOST has been like driving up a hill.
And it's a great hill. It's really interesting, and some remarkable stuff happens while you're driving, but the entire time, you're aware that you're going up. Up. Up. And there's a tension building. And in a way... it's kind of unbearable.
And tonight, watching LOST felt like cresting that hill.
It felt like getting a glimpse of the bottom on the other side. And finally knowing it's there.
I don't think we've quite started back down the hill yet. I don't think we've picked up that momentum yet. I'm betting that's next season. But if this season is about reaching the top of the hill and finally seeing the way down... then consider me satisfied and pleased and feeling vindicated as a fan.
And Desmond Pilgrim was great tonight. BTW. -
my pops was in a MASH unit so I had to watch that every day, and grew to appreciate good tv at a young very young age. This episode will be known as the opposite of jumping the shark, I hence call it the Desmond = an episode that does not climax but pushes forward and exceeds the boundries of writing. (the reason writers should have been on strike)
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I scrolled up and found that. I just can't type to save my life.
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....true fans will come to know this as the moment that things started to become revealed. i think thats why so many are excited. I get a sense of no more BS! game on! either way....there is no season of any show that has accomplished the excitement of the first season (X) 10 in a fourth season. Fuck Fanboys and there mission to see Star Wars, since they F'd it up, might as well be a story about Lost
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isn't it, brother?
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...by know means do I remember in my...ahem 30's now..... My yahoo news reported to me when I woke up the other day in the anniversary section that...YES... I really am that old. poinient though if u think about it .....not even Seinfeld, X-files, or Dexter could match the pure genius of what we witnessed tonite. I will always remember where I was when this ep happened. THAT GOOD!
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...by know means do I remember in my...ahem 30's now..... My yahoo news reported to me when I woke up the other day in the anniversary section that...YES... I really am that old. poinient though if u think about it .....not even Seinfeld, X-files, or Dexter could match the pure genius of what we witnessed tonite. I will always remember where I was when this ep happened. THAT GOOD!
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Wow. That says alot. true genius will revealed when we are wrapping up season 6 and we keep referring back to "The Constant" as the time it all came together. And some will list at "the moment they were hooked on Lost". I am Desmond. I have seen the future.
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darlton are just awesomely nerdy. last night we saw nods to back to the future (young faraday helping des), TNG finale 'All Good Things...' with Desmond jumping in between his body at different periods, and I may be stretching here...but 90's Flash storylines where time stream jumping Wally West can always find his way back because his girl Linda serves as his anchor.
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I keep thinking of "Bad Blood" when I think of 7 good years of X-Files. I know it was a straight comedy ep - but still one of my favorite hours of TV ever. Farscape had several - Nerve, LOOK AT THE PRINCESS PART III, and Die Me, Dichotomy. Gosh there is a top 10 I guess of hour-longs...and The Constant just broke in the top 3.
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mentioned Dexter. After downloading and watching both seasons in about 96 hours - I am still talking about it and thoroughly impressed. I hope losing their showrunner doesn't screw with season 3.
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Farscape's Die me Dichotomy, Lost's The Constant and Angel's "Forgiving" are tied with the highest number of HOLY FUCK"s in a hour-long.
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Best. Episode. Ever!!! Not a dull moment, the entire episode was amazing!!
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Feb 29, 2008 7:38:45 AM CST
If we're starting to crest the hill, I hope the brakes don't giv
by rbrog77
Can it be time “travel” if you never leave where you are? Or is it more like being in more than 1 place/time at the same time?
It was pretty f’ing cool how they did the different time cuts though. Mid-sentence, mid pick-up, mid fall. Great.
I thought there was an interesting line that one of the freighters said when escorting Des to sick bay. Something about the last port of call being Fiji, so at least they new they were in the pacific. So maybe the theories people have been touting about the island itself moving aren’t to far off base.
There’s another twist on a previously said line out of Des. He’s not supposed to be there. Like Locke saying things weren’t supposed to happen.
The new characters are a great addition to the show.
“Because I need you to find me”.
;->
As for the paradox thing and Darlton saying something like Nah, Faraday when walking away from Des in the past did say something about a paradox. He also said in the lab you can’t change the future. So are we to make of this when people say things aren’t supposed to happen they are correct?
Great line by Des asking Dan what he put on his head during exposure to radiation. Maybe we know why he’s scatter brained now.
I’m starting to believe people are right about the freighters being Widmore employees. Minkowski said they were under strict orders not to answer the call from Penny. Who else would know about her making calls or trying to find Des?
Of course, on this show it could be practically anyone...Ben, Michael, Jack...Penny herself.
I love this fucking show.
If a constant is something you really care about, and if Des is Dan’s constant, does that mean Dan really cares about Des?
Going back to the island moves around thing. The Black Rock set sail for Siam but was lost at sea. The only remaining artifact is the first mate’s journal which was found in Madagascar. Hmmmmmmmm...
“After your call, someone has to tell mew precisely what’s going on”. What a great line by Sayid. Stand around watching things transpire, just observing, and then saying someone has to explain this to me. Classic.
“Short Circuit” short circuited out pretty quick. Wonder if that was it for him.
If you didn’t tear up with the phone call, please take your pulse.
Someone please remind me to breathe. What a fucking great show.
Previews for next week Ben tells Locke they have a common enemy. I slowed it down and there’s a scene where Locke is staring holes through someone. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. I think this may tie into the end of The Economist. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. -
What I was trying to say was...If we're starting to crest the hill, I hope the brakes don't give out.
What a ride!!
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hour ever. I looked and it was 9:18pm. Then, Deselope have that incredible scene and it was 9:52. Unreal. I think the time shift is spreading.
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thanks for posting that tinyUrl and reminding me of how hot (in a weird girl-who-could-kick-my-ass way)Ms. Bell is...and how disgustingly fat and morbidly huge Harry is.
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Season 5 is the fun ride down. I hope we don't hit anything in season 6 to stop us in our tracks, break our necks, destroy our trust, hope, and pride...like a machine to manifest the dead or travel through time to create alternate futures. Lost is better than that.
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I'm not sure if this has been addressed here yet, but all last night I was thinking that what happened in that episode was that the consciousnesses of 1996 Desmond and 2004 Desmond switched places. But Jeff Jensen at EW.com clued me into what really happened. 1996 Desmond was the one jumping forward and back in time, and 2004 desmond was MIA until the end. Think about it: everytime he jumped, the body he was just in went catatonic. If he was just switching places, that wouldn't happen. Also, we know 1996 Desmond is on the boat in 2004. Over the phone, Faraday tells him "when it happens again, go to oxford and find me". And he jumps back, and finds faraday. If the guy we were looking at in the 1996 scenes was really the 2004 desmond, he wouldn't know to look for Faraday - only the 1996 consciousness knew that. Mind bending stuff.
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...and I have seen the end of this show, and it is great. Now, let me tell you what happens before my brain expl
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what i want to know is why was it desmond back 1996 time jumping? what is so special about that time... it was present desmond that was experiencing the weird turbulance so somehow the present time chose 96 desmond to get pulled into the present...
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As in, he is fated to jump to 96 in order to complete the loop and make it so that Faraday is able to use the right frequency? Faraday of course somehow forgets Desmond before coming to the island... he's not all there, which is why he keeps the journal. Probably a side effect of not shielding his head from the radiation during his experiments
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My explanataion and Jeff Jensen's seem to make sense in terms of what happened, but you're right - it's 2004 desmonds that feels the turbulence/radiation, so why didn't the same thing happen that occurred in the "Flashes" episode -shouldn't 2004 des have jumped back to 1996? that's what happened in that episode. I think everything hinges on what he experienced when he turned the hatch key. When that happened, he jumped to 1996. Maybe when he did that his 1996 mind became unstuck. Then the storm in this episode helped that mind to attach to his 2004 body. So instead of 2004 jumping back to 96, it was 96 jumping back to 96. Still not sure why it was 96, except that seemed like a critical time in his life.
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-------Highlight Below------
Okay, here's what I think.....
- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.
Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...
- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.
- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.
- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")
- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.
- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.
- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.
- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.
- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.
- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).
- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.
- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.
Ideas?
EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden. -
Feb 29, 2008 8:45:47 AM CST
I REPEAT SPOILERS...WHO IS IN THE COFFIN? I KNOW...FROM OTHER BO
by jbouganim1
-------Highlight Below------
Okay, here's what I think.....
- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.
Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...
- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.
- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.
- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")
- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.
- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.
- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.
- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.
- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.
- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).
- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.
- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.
Ideas?
EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden. -
-------Highlight Below------
Okay, here's what I think.....
- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.
Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...
- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.
- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.
- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")
- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.
- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.
- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.
- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.
- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.
- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).
- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.
- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.
Ideas?
EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden. -
Bad behavior on the island puts your name in the hopper for the next death. Watros and Rodriguez had DUIs close together - and hell JJ knocked 'em out in one scene. I'd say there is a connection. Though if Matthew Fox blew a .08, I doubt his job would be in jeapordy. If Elizabeth Mitchell gets busted...I would bet her time will be short. Just lookin' for a reason, baby!
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At this point, I will settle nothing less for a completely happy ending for both of them that doesn't involve any kind of great sacrifice at the end. Since Des and Penny's story is the Odyssey arc, the entire payoff of that story was seeing the Odysseus finally reaching home and being with his wife. Even better was his badass slaughter of all her suitors. *That's* the arc I expect Desmond and Penny to take: Desmond kicking ass and getting his girl in the end.
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I love fish biscuits..
Cons (mainly about the people) :
Always in a rush, on the go
Think they are the center of the world
Paranoid/ living in fear
Ultra-competitive
Non-chalant and maybe a bit arrogant too...very "in your face"
Parking fees!
Brooklyn seemed kind of sketchy, and the whole puffy jackets made it seem like a '95 timewarp -
spoiler ***************************
fisher stevens reported he is returning to hawaii to continue filming his stint on Lost. Looks like we haven't seen the last of Minkwoski. -
Everyone i know has read Murakami too, dude. Oh but wait, you probably appreciate it more than us. And let me guess, you're reading it in the original Japanese. Here's your medal.
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I am still in the process of playing the game. Let me know if anyone wants me to continue to give the play by play even though somebody has already siad how it ends. (A SPOILER tag would have been nice). Anyway, I am on episode four now, still nothing too exciting.
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I can't read it. Too jumbled for talkback. So maybe try paragraphs by typing the less than sign, the letter P, then the greater than sign.
See, it works. -
So it goes.
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im not saying he didnt die. but ethan has been in more episodes after his death than before so...
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Great episode. I was afraid that was gonna screw up my chronological re-edit but i think i see how i'm gonna have to do it now. check it out! http://lostre-edit.blogspot.com/
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Okay, here's what I think.....
- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.
Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...
-
- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.
Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...
- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.
- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.
- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")
- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.
- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.
- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.
- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.
- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.
- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).
- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.
- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.
Ideas?
EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.
-
- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.
Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...
- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.
- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.
- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")
- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.
- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.
- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.
- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.
- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.
- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).
- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.
- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.
Ideas?
EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.
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1) I may be an ass, but that picture still isn't Yemi or Eko. (this is one example of the theories I hate...i'll admit there is a resemblence, but it's obviously not Yemi or Eko. And while some of you can admit that, there were several people who argued vehemently that it was...ARGH!)
2) Darlton are on the record as saying that Star Trek episode "All Good Things" was a big influence on "The Constant", so you can't really bash them too much for the similarities. -
BEN SAYS "THE MAGIC BOX IS A METAPHOR, JOHN!" He actually says it, people. Fucking pay attention.
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i was actually going for duece but i'm sorry my spelling error. i'll go slit my wrists down my arm for being such a DUMBASS.
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we both really need to go kill ourselves because its 'deux' and 'deuce'
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get banned, douche.
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"we both really need to go kill ourselves because its 'deux' and 'deuce'" I got one right douche...
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In that there isn't a giant cube shaped object that produces what you want. I think that's what Ben is saying. But there is something about the island that gives you what you want.
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- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.
Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...
- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.
- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.
- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")
- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.
- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.
- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.
- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.
- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.
- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).
- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.
- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.
Ideas?
EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.
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I get the feeling that the something about the Island that gives you what you want (at least from the outside world) is Richard Alpert.
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i really hate to fan a flame, but JBouganim1, you do realize you spelled deux like this --> 'DUEX'? so you effin moron you didnt get jack shit right? you got it through you think fucking skull? crawl in a hole and die.
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Thanks. Good read.
Jacob's Ladder, according to Wiki, came from a dream of Jacob. He dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place; and I did not know it." And he was afraid, and said, "This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."
So your closing where you say the island is the garden of Eden may be correct, but it might be more correctly stated as the gateway to heaven.
As far as the anchor theory, it totally makes sense...especially the Through the Looking Glass scene with Jack talking about his father. If it is Des in the coffin, and if he's the anchor, I can see a whole lot of things being messed up. Kate, however, might not need Des as her anchor. Her's might be Aaron.
Also, looking at this as a metaphor for the show seems like too much of a coincidence not to be the case.
Good stuff!! Lots to think about. -
i dont want to take credit for that...i read it somewhere else but it fucked me up this morning after reading it. Makes so much sense and I am pissed for readin igt
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about Aaron. Sort of explains why she isnt fucke dup like Jack
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I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the event which led to Desmond getting thrown into prison. I doubt Penny had the opportunity to put her little inspirational note in his copy of 'Our Mutual Friend' yet.
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...about a faith and science battle may (or may not) be on the right track, but it might be better stated that men of faith are trying to protect the gates of heaven from men of science...non-believers.
Interesting thing about that is according to the Medrash, several angels tried to climb the ladder and failed.
So maybe even if science does find the gates, they may still not be admitted.
Crap...now I'll be thinking about this all day. -
dude! I too, think Jacob is the biblical Jacob. I mean this is a cynical viewpoint to take but the show is on ABC and ABC is owned by Disney, and Disney is heavy into the Christianity... I've been wondering if they'd tie some Biblical mythology into the show for awhile now
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thanks brotha! we'll see if i'm actually right...I'm wondering if there's a connection to the yellow serum that Minkowski was injected with by the freighter's doctor, and the yellow Dharma serum they were giving the pregnant ladies? And that Kelvin and Des believed to be some sort of booster against 'the sickness' while in the Swan? Maybe that's actually a radioactive agent that *enables* the timeshifting somehow, rather than preventing it?
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beyond our spelling beef, i like the theory about the hostiles being the survivors of the black rock. it falls in with Richard never aging and where the hell they came from. However he speaks pretty much modern english so he must go to and from the island alot if this theory is right...he would need to become modernized as well. i was thinking possibly that Magnus Hanzo, the captain of the Black Rock who supposedly died and is buried on the island may be Jacob....
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How does Faraday not know who desmond is in 2004/island when now they have met?
Doesn't the whole don't change ur number for 8 years you hate me chat negate the fact that Penny made an effort to track Desmond down at the stadium in L.A. when he was training for the race?
Why can desmond not remember anything? Last time he traveled back he remembered everything.
Thanks! -
Your theories are ok, but stop posting them over and over. That's not cool
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i thought the same exact things. here are my theories:
1. Faraday is going to suffer some kind of brain injury that will make him have memory problems resulting in him forgetting some portions of his life. This could also explain why he has a caretaker and also why Charlotte was helping him test his memory with the cards and why he was having trouble with the little test.
2. I had a big issue with 1996 Desmond not remembering anything also but I guess I could accept the theory that others posted: Once the time anomaly was fixed, the Universe corrected itself and 1996 Desmond forgot about the incident but present Desmon retains the memories of it because this is the period is that the disturbance originated from? who knows but it sounds good enough to me...
3. Penny not mentioning anything about the 1996 chat after subsequent meetings could just be a plot hole but maybe Darlton will surprise us. -
...and saw Jacob inside, he also saw, and was startled by someone who popped his head up in the window, who to me looked like Ben. But... Ben was somewhere else at the time. So, is Ben time shifting with Jacob and the shack or what the hell?
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Jacob's cabin is there, then it's not there, implying some sort of shift that now appears to be temporal. And Richard Alpert doesn't appear to be age, which means he's time-jumping around somehow, although physically instead of mentally like Desmond.
All I know is, Desmond and Penny is probably the best TV romance since David and Maddie on MOONLIGHTING.
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* Yemi or Eko are in the picture at Mrs. Gardner's house (BAD THEORY!! BOO!!)
* Richard and the Hostiles are survivors of the Black Rock (GOOD THEORY!! YAY!!)
* Ben is a time traveling clone (BAD THEORY!! YOU SUCK!!)
* Abaddon is working for Charles Widmore who is following the trail of the Black Rock in order to find the island (GOOD THEORY!! STEAK DINNERS FOR ALL!!) -
The Pesmond really struck a chord.
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*scene?
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This is just my thoughts after seeing last night's episode:
Everyone on the island was either associated with the experiments taking place, or were somehow exposed to massive radiation or electromagnetism. They were constantly bouncing around during periods of time in their own lives, and were causing great disruptions on the proper flow of time. This is why the show is chock full of flashbacks - everyone is flashing a round, but something on the island, or something Ben (and Dharma) did on the island prevented people from going crazy. Desmond was okay until he left the island. These people were taken to the island to try to help cure them before they die. Their memories are constantly being erased to prevent the madness. So there was no plane crash. They were all brought to the island, and to explain why they are missing, a plane was purchased and scuttled in the Pacific.
Daniel and the BlackRock Ledger
Is it just me, or do you find it interesting that Daniel uses his notebook as a way to track changed in his past. He says to Desmond at Oxford, "if you were already here, wouldn't I know about it in the future?" The problem is that no he wouldnt. His recollections of the past would not change - so he has to continue to flip back into his journal to see if any of the notes he left in there have been altered or updated.
So then maybe the ledger from the Black Rock serves the same purpose. The ship is still on the island, but the ledger made it off, and was part of some pirate's personal effects at one point. So someone on the Black Rock made it off the island and kept a ledger. Just like Daniel. Or..... was Daniel on the Black Rock? How long has he been keeping track of the changes in the past?
And maybe the reason that "rescuing your people isn't our top priority" is because actually CURING them of their time-hopping problem IS the primary objective.
Last thing isnt a conjecture but an observation: If Poppy Widmore bought the journal in 1996, he's had 8 years to read it and respond to the information he learned in it. What if the book told him about this island and its location, and how to get back and forth from it (the author somehow got off the island), and he contacts Hanso who owned it before it was auctioned, and the two of them decide to research the island to harness its power, to manipulate time and history to actually create their massive wealth and power that they now have. -
Nothing of substance to add, just had to say it at least once. Penelophume. There, twice.
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"3. Penny not mentioning anything about the 1996 chat after subsequent meetings could just be a plot hole but maybe Darlton will surprise us."
From our point of view (or Desmond's/Jack's/anyone else's) at that point in the timeline we are observing, it had not occurred in the past yet. (the past, yet.. hmmm) Look at it this way. As an observer, even if you could view your own life, at some point you see an event. Now, at some other point you find a way to go back and change that event. Does it change your memory of the event and all records of that memory, or does it change it in a different, new universe? Or maybe it changes only your observation of that event and all changes that occur as a result of your meddling. It's a TV show, but from our point of view it's also a record of events before AND after they change. Daniel's awareness of Desmond is altered, but we are ALSO shown Daniel before that change occurs. We still can see the before and the after, even in the past. It seemed fairly simple to me, not a plot hole at all. Or perhaps I'm missing something? -
Since the producers love throwing numbers at us... remember the flash forward with Hurley... Charlie was by the "ho-ho's" and Hurley and Jack playing horse and the score when jack left was H and O, which are the 8th and 15th letters of the alphabet.... get it, flight 815... Well, Des goes back to 1996 which is eight years from where the losties are... but the plane crashes in September and Desmond is on the frieghter in December... 8 years and 15 weeks??? 815??? Right? Anyone? ...
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Great episode, you just knew it was gonna be good when Desmond was time traveling before the credits went off.
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Not in a gay way or anything. I just think I need one at this point because if I absorb any more words into my brain, I'm going to have to start forgetting stuff because my space is limited. (the 80s were tough on my synapses/dendrites) Wait, I need to go grab a tissue, my nose is bleeding.
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but also those where I'm almost completely silent.Maybe 'cause I'm too stunned...
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Anyone saying as soon as the 815 surviors leave the island they will have problems are forgetting one key thing: Sayid was not showing any effects. At least not at this point. Also it doesn't appear he was having any problems in the flashforward either. Maybe it takes an event of great magnetic effect to trigger the problem. I wouldn't assume a typical X-ray would not cause such problems as I think the O6 would be subject to a battery of medical tests after leaving the island. Great episode, this season has truely pulled me back after a ho-hum 2nd and 3rd season (with the exception of the S3 finale).
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Thats pretty mean.
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Feb 29, 2008 11:22:25 AM CST
HOW Minkowski began time traveling? He must have been exposed to
by shigeru
Yes Minkowski said that him and someone else (forget the name) took the chopper out because they "wanted to see the island", and had to turn back once forgot-his-name-guy started freaking out. Forgot-his-name-guy then went completely nuts and died, just like Minkowski eventually did. There is a sphere of time-fucked stuff around the island, and the only way in/out is through a hole/weak point.
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From now on, they shall be Pesmond.
Man, hell of an episode. Best one ever, maybe.
Question - is it possible that Desmond, in his last feature episode, was having flash-fowards, and that would explain why he could tell people what was going to happen to them? I really need to watch this ep again and previous seasons. -
Thank you Lost.
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Feb 29, 2008 11:25:00 AM CST
Minkowski explained that he went out on his break towards
by novaman5000
the island and got exposed. The friend he was with died.
Color me completely confused, though. Last night's episode totally fucked my mind. Question:
The time being 2004 on the freighter doesn't make sense to me, unless the calender is fake. Maybe the freighter knows that the survivors believe it's 2004, so they set the calendar there so as to not totally freak them out. I don't know.
I was expecting for Penny to be like, 'you're late'. I think she's been looking for him for 3 years because he never called her in 2004 and it's 2007 in her time. I just don't get the calendar. It being 2004 on the freighter just doesn't jive with anything thus far.
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Honestly time moving faster on the outside world is a rad idea and a lot of fans ran with it, but the calendar pretty much disproves it. It's not a fake calendar.
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for example, when desmond jumps into his 1996 self, he takes over the conciousness. When he leaves, his 1996 self has no recollection of the events or what he did. Either that or he remembers doing it but doesn't really remember why. Like a dream that barely stays in your memory.
It seems that time travel, in this universe, is suscribing to the- everything happens once, then you can go back and change how it happens, but the outcome must always be the same. I don't know it's fucking confusing. I hope that Darlton is being really careful with their facts, because time travel is notoriously tricky to pull off without plot holes. -
great!
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It's ok. I'll find my constant eventually.
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Its already been semi-established that Faraday has short/long term memory lost. What was brilliant about the writing of this episode it not only showed us WHY Daniel's memory is wonky (notice Desmond ask him when putting on the shield before zapping Eloise why he doesn't wear a shield on his head--oh those absent minded professors...)but how it plays into the story how he wouldn't remember meeting Desmond in 96.
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Maybe they're not just flipping back and forth in time, but back and forth to other alternate realties (like the multiverse theory)? Might be why Faraday doesnt remember Desmond, he met him in another reality.
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This is the best episode to date, not necessarily in terms of drama...Charlie dying, etc....but pretty much everything else! This episode finally kills many theories...they're in Purgatory...and connects some dots. I loved it.
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Sorry if this is posted already but it's my little theory that I think has a lot of supporting evidence.
I think you should pay attention to how these type of "side effects" have occured since the hatch implosion. The first we see of this is when Desmond turns the key, instantly after he has the same experience. The Swan was built to contain the electromagnetic charge of the island, likely to make for safe travel for the DHARMA people. Desmond releases the charge, thus making it dangerous once again.
Your mention of Leonard and Danielle's crew is definitely interesting, but with my theory of the Swan protecting incoming/outgoing people it may conflict. I always thought Leonard was at one point just positioned at the Swan and went crazy from the repetative work.
Also, Daniel mentions that the side effects change person to person, not everyone is catapaulted through time, Daniel may be speaking about himself when mentioning different kinds of side effects, since not remembering cards isn't something that looks like time travel. But now that past Daniel has a working time machine...well, he needs a constant and he's found it.
Also, remember when Daniel said "light doesn't scatter quite right"? This episode we have confirmatin that the island time is slower/different than outside and light moves in relation to time right? Light moves at a speed, and time is slower causing light to scatter differently than the rest of the world. -
Feb 29, 2008 11:39:52 AM CST
I too wondered if being "unstuck in time" is the sickness
by novaman5000
from the island. It makes sense... People who come there in open vessels get exposed to the radiation and get it.
To normal people it would seem as if they just went stark raving mad...
Also, loved the Widmore bidding on the book, bit. Was wondering if they were going to tell us in the show how the black rock and hanso were related and they did. Awesome. Now we also know how Widmore comes to find out about the island. -
Sorry if this is posted already but it's my little theory that I think has a lot of supporting evidence.
I think you should pay attention to how these type of "side effects" have occured since the hatch implosion. The first we see of this is when Desmond turns the key, instantly after he has the same experience. The Swan was built to contain the electromagnetic charge of the island, likely to make for safe travel for the DHARMA people. Desmond releases the charge, thus making it dangerous once again.
Your mention of Leonard and Danielle's crew is definitely interesting, but with my theory of the Swan protecting incoming/outgoing people it may conflict. I always thought Leonard was at one point just positioned at the Swan and went crazy from the repetative work.
Also, Daniel mentions that the side effects change person to person, not everyone is catapaulted through time, Daniel may be speaking about himself when mentioning different kinds of side effects, since not remembering cards isn't something that looks like time travel. But now that past Daniel has a working time machine...well, he needs a constant and he's found it.
Also, remember when Daniel said "light doesn't scatter quite right"? This episode we have confirmatin that the island time is slower/different than outside and light moves in relation to time right? Light moves at a speed, and time is slower causing light to scatter differently than the rest of the world. -
Feb 29, 2008 11:44:36 AM CST
But the freighter exists outside the thunderhead, so it should
by novaman5000
be in normal time, right? Also, Faraday says that the way time passes on the island is not how time passes everywhere else, yet on the freighter, the time is exactly the same as it is on the island. Approximately 3 months after the crash of flight 815.
They haven't told us how long after the crash the fake wreckage was discovered, that would answer a lot of questions... -
So, why doesn't Desmond remember his future? Or rather, what happened to future Desmond? Is he gone for good? Either way, it was nice to see a great episode again. It seems like all the Desmond ones are good, just like all the Kate episodes are bad. Also, does this mean Locke can't leave the island without the same thing happening to him, given his proximity to the explosion (not that he ever would)?
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Since time passes different for people on the island vs. people in the 'real world'. Like how the children have aged one year in WWII England while in NARNIA hundreds of years pass. Dharma drops stop, sea vessels can't return and helicopter trips (while not impossible) are dangerous, all because Desmond pushed a button that 'unhinged' the island from the space/time continuum? Am I getting that right? Does the Jesus Lion still look ridiculus, Harry? BTW, I LOVE the commitment to paradox-free time travel that Damon & Carlton has made. My Fav Back To The Future was number 2 and still cringe every time future Biff returns to a Future he eliminated after giving 50's Biff the Almanac just to give Marty & Doc the DeLorean. I saw NO Paradox last night, unless the rat died before he could be trained in the future (can't send a consciousness into a future where there is no living body in which to learn the maze). Gonna rewatch to check on that one.
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Someone above posted that Des is the person in the coffin that Jack goes and visits. Well, he can't be one of the Oceanic 6 because he never was on Oceanic Flight 815. So, he could be a survivor in the flash forwards, but he wouldn't be an Oceanic 6 survivor. Des got to the island on a boat, not as part of the plane crash...
Plus why would Des be in a coffin in L.A. in a predominately black neighborhood instead of London or somewhere in Great Britian. -
So...could Abaddon have been a slave on the ship who somehow got off island? He is a dark skinned mother...
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It was allowing safe travel for dharma by keeping the radiation levels low. I buy that. I don't know that that jives with all this sickness business people have suggested above. Didn't Danielle say that her team ran into a storm that night 16 years ago? Could have been the portal/radiation storm... Though why would there have been a portal if the radiation was being kept low by the swan? I just really hope the writers know what they're doing, there is so many ways to mess this up! I have faith, but damn.
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can someone tell me the exact process to insert line breaks in my posts? got a whopper theory i need to break down. thanks
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there's actually a deleted scene that shows old Biff disappearing after his little trip. not sure why it was cut but that woulda fixed that little hiccup somewhat.
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Minkowski said that the freighter was just waiting at the perimeter for a long time, and everyone eventually got bored. He said that he and some other guy decided to take a boat out to the island to see what it looked like. Both of them got sick, and the other guy was already dead.
I like the theories posted by JBouganim1, except the biblical portions. Those parts sound like absolute nonsense. And, get a grip JBouganim1. You had a fine post if you hadn't kept spamming it. Now you seem like a douche.
And for those complaining about paradox, I don't think it's possible to have time travel coupled with character agency without having paradox. That said, they did a pretty good job keeping it to a minimum, for example by positing that people simply "forget" any events that would cause paradox, such a Faraday's meeting with Hume. -
Ugh, when is this place going to install some real forum software instead of this amateurish nonsense. Just get vBulletin or phpBB. The latter is even free. Anyway, above post as intended...
Minkowski said that the freighter was just waiting at the perimeter for a long time, and everyone eventually got bored. He said that he and some other guy decided to take a boat out to the island to see what it looked like. Both of them got sick, and the other guy was already dead.
I like the theories posted by JBouganim1, except the biblical portions. Those parts sound like absolute nonsense. And, get a grip JBouganim1. You had a fine post if you hadn't kept spamming it. Now you seem like a douche.
And for those complaining about paradox, I don't think it's possible to have time travel coupled with character agency without having paradox. That said, they did a pretty good job keeping it to a minimum, for example by positing that people simply "forget" any events that would cause paradox, such a Faraday's meeting with Hume. -
which was wrong. 315 or 325 (can't remember exactly) is the only way to safely leave the island. Faraday says that if they don't leave exactly right... there will be side effects. 305 wasn't quite right, hence desmond going nutso.
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cmon novaman, burgerking, darkocity. some one help a brother out.
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Type a p enclosed by the carrot brackets .
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I was in a tackback room filled with people dedicated to the study/review of a TV show. There was a pa, the Military Police, we watched PBS change before our eyes, etc. I feel like I'm slipp...
There it was again. And it was a room with the number 23 on the door. It was constant, but now it's gone...except when I go back. I'm here now, but there are people here I don't know. I need something familiar. Something constant between there and here.
Help before I......... -
So what did the white horse represent and how is Leland both himself and bob at the same time? wtf?
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Feb 29, 2008 12:03:47 PM CST
Did anyone think minkowski was going to have a bigger part?
by novaman5000
That bitch died so fast.
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test haiku
sweet evangeline
bring that sexy frame to me
we will make a child.
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computers are fun...
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now i know how to line break. i got a few more eps to watch then i'm gonna slap a theory down that's going to implode this forum! until then, gotta go.
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in my office this morning. I thought it would turn alot of people off. Only one of my friends was like "that's stupid". haha
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I have played through episode 3 of the game. SPOILERS if you dont want to know what happens. Not too much excitement. It opens with your character awakenig after being clubbed by Tom and stuck by Juliet. You awake on the beach and find out from Hurley that "Steve or Scott) was killed and Claire was stuck with a needle. Your goal is to repair your laptop, to help recover your memory. After talking to Sayid you find that Locke has your battery. After talking to him, he tells you you dont need to recover your past. "The island gives you a fresh start." You still want your battery so it launches into a flashback. During this you see Locke trying to sell back his camping gear from the walkabout at a pawn shop. You see him in his wheelchair. Your character then uses this to blackmail Locke into giving you the laptop battery. He tells you to follow him into the jungle. After wandering around the jungle you come across the Hatch, dug up and exposed. Nothing to do with it so you continue on until you find a cave. Locke gives a Star Wars speech about finding in the cave what you take in it. After wandering through the cave you see the visions of the dead girl again. Eventually you find a skeleton holding a compass. Locke makes you give him the compass. After examining the compass Locke tells you the island gives you things, saying "The island gave me the Hatch to share with everyone, when the time comes". He then tells you the island gave your character the compass. The compass is old and has the words "Via Domus" written on it, which Locke explains means the way home in Latin. The compass works similar to the one in pirates of the Caribean, it doesn't point North, I guess it points to what you need, or what you need to do to get home. LOST...end episode 3
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there's no way we've seen the last of minkowski. there's gotta be some back story there.
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a course of 315 on the boat when they left...yet the hellicopter cheat sheet written by faraday said to follow a heading of 305...so where did ben send michael and walt??
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The movie was complete shit but the book was pretty interesting in the way it tried to explain the possibility of time travel. In the book, time travel isn't exactly possible. What is possible is alternate universe travel to multiverse timelines that are identical to each other except are not running concurrently. So when you go back 50 years, you are actually travelling to another dimension that is 50 years behind our time. Which kind of makes sense because how can time in one universe exist as a destination? This theory kind of explains why paradoxes do not occur...You aren't actually in your past, you're in an alternate universe.
It's a possibility that Lost time travel operates this way but I doubt Darlton will ever fully spell out the mechanics of time travel in the show...way too complicated for the general audience. -
still, didn't expect him to die. Not that i mind, but it was just a surprise. I think I actually said outloud "Oh no way!" when he bit it, too.
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If David Tennant ever decides to leave. Would that not be awesome?
He's got Tennats charm, Ecceston's coolness. Bit of that Doctor's I've-got-a-secret thing going. I think He'd be perfect for the role. -
Evil Desmond with a beard
Good Desmond cleanshaven
Evil Jack with a beard
Good Jack cleanshaven
Good Michael before he became a cold blooded scumbag murder - cleanshaven
Evil scumbag Michael - Beard
Evil Spock - beard
Good Spock - cleanshaven
Evil Cartman - beard
Good Cartman - Cleanshaven
Tom Cruise and John Travolta both evil have beards (the hollywood kind)
Beware the beard. -
google 'html paragraph break' and use the tag that comes up in between your paragraphs.
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That would be freaky, especially since Watts apparently commited suicide in 1999. I want to see the episode where it's revealed he and Locke were seperated at birth. Plus, it'd be a good way to get Lance Henriksen's Frank Black on tv again.
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I agree with the alternate reality theory, I posted earlier reagrding that same theory. Why are we seeing wo different Jacks in the future, the bearded crazy Jack and the Jack who is called to the witness stand for Kate. I think we are seeing two different possible future realties changing as the current storyline is changing.
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robots and Anthony Perkins and Maxemillian Schell.
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If we are taling about jumping back and forth in time, somehow the two Jacks overlapped.
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I'm surprised no one on this board has mentioned it yet, but tonight's episode referenced the entire plotline from Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, which is about a guy who becomes "unstuck in time" and can travel backwards and forwards, even being able to witness his own death 30-something years in the future and then jump back. It gets so bad that he just sits in a room all day while it happens... it's been about 10 years since I read it, but that book was definitely an inspiration and I bet last season's Desmond time traveling episode will make much more sense now, at least to me. They even use the "unstuck in time" expression in tonight's episode.
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Let the man sex begin!
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Somebody head down to Chink's Alley and bring back Wu. Cause if I'm ever gonna fuckin' understand this time travelin' business these people are shovelin', I'm gonna need Wu and his fuckin' charcoal drawings to figure it the fuck out.
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that's pretty interesting and of course possible. i don't know if the writers would do that tho, concerning the flash forwards. it would kind of be a cop out to say, all these flash forwards are possible realities. I read in an interview that Calrton and Damon said they don't believe in showing something and doing a take-back by saying this is only a possibility. they said they think its unfair to the audience by doing things like this.
the theory from the Chricton book was my suggestion to explain how Desmond was time travelling to the past. however, the more i think about that Darlton interview the more I am second guessing this theory. Because it would have to apply to all time travel on the show such as the Orchid orientation video...aaaahhhh my head is going to explooooode!
side note: speaking of the orchid film, anyone notice how marvin candle flipped out about the two rabbits being so near each other? he was yelling 'get them away' from each other or something like that...you think there are any crazy side effects of the same object touching itself in the past a la 'Timecop'? -
this was even better then finale of Season 3. I agree with Moriarty about "driving up the hill". Gee, I got realy scared for Des' live. This Widmore guy is probably playing a big role in all of this.
But, if I ever get lost big time, I need to call Sayid for help. Anyone has his number? *stacking up batteries... -
The Desmond is my constant. Maybe it's a third party that wrote, like Penny's father obsessed by hate, or future Locke who wants to know what Des knows, or Charlie. Even Jacob.
Penny's father could be in on the Economist storyline. and that could expolain why Naomi had Penelope's picture even though Penelope didn't know about her. -
Feb 29, 2008 12:51:13 PM CST
Ben is a member of the Brotherhood of the Crucifant Sword
by mel gibsteinberg
That's the "Brotherhood of the Crucifant Sword" if the title was cut. Remember the religous fanatics protecting the grail from the evil Nazi's? I think that is Ben's group, and Widmore and his ilk represent the Nazi's, or as Dr. Jones senior explains, "the armieshe of darknesh which will march over thish world." Ben's group will stop at nothing to protect the Island. It has a mystical power that man has sought after for years, and now the war is heating up. Just my thoughts.
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I am expecting Jack to find Ben and at some point pin him against some chopping blade of death, holding them down to both meet their doom unless Ben talks. But Ben explains "My SOUL IS PREPARED! How is yours?"
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They don't show it, but I assume that Faraday trained the rat like he said, an hour from the time she runs it. When next we see Past Faraday, he says it's been 75 minutes since Des went catatonic. So I'm guessing that Past Faraday trained the rat to run the maze and then shortly thereafter she died. Which leaves him about 15 minutes to successfully train her. Assuming that he sticks to his schedule. I don't know much about rat training, so I'm willing to let it go. Sure, he can train her in time before she dies.
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Faraday says it himself, and it echoes the old woman. The future can not be changed.
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I think that was one of the best, most subtle "holy shit!" moments of the show. Penny implies that she might not have kept faith if "your friend Charlie" hadn't told her about the island. Between that and Hurley's flash-forward, what the hell is going on with Charlie?
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How can you train a rat to run a maze if she already knows how to run it?
Time Travel is confusing. -
Your friend Charlie was in reference to the transmission WE ALL SAW in the season finale of last season. There is no wow factor...
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In the S3 finale.
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I think that was a plothole that Michael Chricton kind of just glossed over and ignored. I really can't remember an explanation being given.
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Doesn't the mouse dying contradict Faraday's statement that you can't change the future? The mouse died *before* it could learn the maze, thus suggesting that the future can be changed. So is this the idea? There are no alternate realities, just closed loops of possiblilities that never came to be?
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I was going to mention Slaughterhouse Five but I read the talkback and it is mentioned 3 or 4 times. Its alos mentioned in the EW Lost article on the episode.
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The "pre" mouse cannot know the maze, only the "post" mouse can. In order for Eloise to suddenly know the maze, it is necessary that the "future" Eloise is the one shifting in time, occupying her "past" body, and running the maze. Another apparent paradox is that the mouse dies, so when was she taught the maze? Apparently during Desmond's trance, which lasted over an hour; F. was going to teach her the maze in "an hour".
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I sent this to a friend via email, but I figure why not give you guys a chance to shoot it full of holes, too. Apologies if the formatting gets screwed up.
Ok, this is almost 100% certain to be crap, but since I can't stick with a theory for more than a week (if that long), it's my new pet theory.
Facts:
Faraday told Frank to follow a specific heading. Last night we saw that that specific heading (according to the map and the instruments) was 305. Drifting off of that even a little bit caused Desmond to become unstuck in time.
In "Live Together, Die Alone", the finale of Season 2, Michael and Walt are leaving the island and Ben tells them to follow heading 325 and they will find rescue.
Ben may lie outright some of the time, but even more often what he means is not what you hear.
Walt still exists in the universe of the show and it has been acknowledged that he has changed and is taller. (Resulting in the wonderful line, "Who are we to argue with taller, ghost Walt?" but unfortunately, that's off topic.)
Despite Walt's changes, we know that it is December of 2004 on the island, on the freighter and in London, indicating that time dilation issues happen when entering or leaving the island, and that time on the island itself is pretty much the same as off the island.
Michael is coming back.
Ben has a man on the freighter.
Ben has the ability to convince people who hate him and don't trust him to work for him for the supposed greater good.
Ben has the ability to produce things (e.g. Locke's father, information on everyone on the plane) from practically out of nowhere with almost no warning.
Complete conjecture:
If moving away from a 305 can cause one to have "side effects" as experienced by Desmond, perhaps going to certain other headings can allow for more specific changes. If one were to go to 325 perhaps rather than becoming unstuck in time, one would move back in time a certain amount.
Ben, knowing that Walt and Michael were important, sent them away but not back home. By sending them to 325 instead of 305, he caused them to leave the island and arrive at their destination in the past.
A few years in the past, Ben meets up with Michael and convinces him that the people on the island are in danger and that only he can do anything about it. Michael, eager for redemption for betraying his friends, agrees.
Jumping forward what I'm guessing is a couple years (of Michael and Walt time), the freighter arrives, bringing with it Ben's man, Michael, who has been preparing for this since he left the island.
Meanwhile, Walt will have aged two years physically by being sent back and living in the past.
Assumptions:
Bodily time travel is possible in addition to consciousness travel.
Present Ben is able to travel or to influence past Ben in some way. This would explain both the information gathering, which would need to have started before the crash, and the abduction of Locke's father. (Maybe past Ben simply works by accepting instructions from Jacob which will make no sense until some time in the future.) -
Problem with that theory is when they got off course and landed Des was the only one affected. Sayid was fine. Frank too. Des was affected because he was exposed to EM.
Walt and Michael were not...at least up to the point where we saw them boat away.
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So it's possible that when Des on the freigter made contact with Penny, past Des does not remember anything else.
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Nothing in Penny's apt suggests that. Though who knows. She says she's been looking for him for 3 years, and hasn't he been missing for 3 years? I'm totally fucking confused now. Before I thought it could be 2007 because she mentions she was looking for him for 3 years, but now im thinking that she was looking for him cuz he had crashed 3 years prior, gone missing, etc. But I don't get it. I was expecting there to be more to this time travel. If the island time is moving differently, but the rest of the world is on the same time... Then the island isn't moving any differently, really, is it? What's the significance??
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So have fun with it but stop dredging it for possible clues to the show. Cuse, Lindelof and Abrams did not really have much to do with the story. Also, did anyone notice that the Lot number for the black rock logbook was "2342"? kinda cool. Finally, why did Widmore leave the faucet running and stoppered? It was obviously on purpose.
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Desmond promised that he would call Christmas Eve, 2004. He and Penny make reference to that conversation during the phone call, don't they? If it isn't 2004, wouldn't there be some mention of that? She's been looking for him for 3 years because he went on the race and went missing 3 years ago.
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The mouse learned the maze either way. So nothing changed.
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When Desmond's consciousness goes back in time as it did in this episode and Flashes Before Your Eyes, do his changes affect the 'actual' timeline or is it just meaningless in an alternate timeline? It seems that a lot of you think that he does affect the timeline or at least he was always meant to travel back in time like that, sort of like Harry Potter time travel. I was under the impression that Desmond's back in time events don't actually change the way things happened in the actual timeline in the present.
In other words, when Desmond called Penny did Penny know he was going to call because he told her in the actual timeline? Or when Desmond got Penny's number in the past, that wasn't the actual timeline so it never actually happened. So she wouldn't have any idea that he would be calling?
I had always assumed the latter. You can go back in time, but it doesn't change anything. And all you can really do is acquire knowledge that may help you in your decisions in the actual timeline. But it seems a lot of people think it's the other way, Harry Potter time travel rules -
Man i would have shit myself.
Anyway my point is, it probably is 2004, but I don't get it. How is the island moving at a different timespeed if it's in sync with the freighter AND london.... Maybe Desmond is calling her in 2004, but in real life it's later. MAN I just don't know. -
Well it's not really the "post mouse" that learns it. It's the pre-mouse's mind which occupies the post-mouses body when gone through time. Similar to how Army Desmond know to find Faraday because Faraday spoke to Island Desmond. It's just the conciousness that travels, allowing for it to be possible.
We know that Faraday is wrong that the future can't be changed. We saw Desmond change the future numerous times when saving Charlie. However, as Desmond was once told, the universe has a way of course correcting itself. Therefore, while the future can be changed in the short term, the end result will ALWAYS happen no matter what. The mouse would learn the maze whether or not it went through time, it's death was the result of having no constant, despite the fact that it only travelled through an hour (presumably), however the small mouse brain may not be able to take the same quantum pounding as a human brain can take. -
"How can you train a rat to run a maze if she already knows how to run it?" Leave my brain alone!!!
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Faraday's ray gun made the trained mouse come backward in time while the electricity storm made Desmond from the past come forward in time. That is a huge difference. My guess it has something to do with calculations he set for his raygun.
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it's true the game isn't canon, but Darlton did oversee much of the storyline and design and everything was subject to their stamp of approval. They even gave the developers the actual blueprint for the hatch to recreate it specifically to what they used as canon. What is found behind the magnetic wall is really what Darlton meant for it to be. But none of the things from the game really reveal anything new to the show and the ending is very strange and im kind of glad that it isn;t canon, cuz it's a COP OUT!
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Someone asked above - why Des could remember stuff before in Flashes, but not this time. It's because instead of Des of today traveling back, with all the knowledge he has accumulated over time - the Des of the PAST, the one still active in the army (roughly 8 years ago), that CONSCIOUSNESS traveled forward in time to Des' freighter brain. 8 years of accumulated knowledge just GONE. I know I'd be confused. I'd still be in grad school with visions of a high paying job. HA!
Maxwell - I'm done with you. But for the last time, the Eko/Yemi thing was a possible Easter Egg, not a theory. I have screen shots on my computer and the resemblence is eerie. It's fine if you don't agree. But it was the way you didn't agree thay made you sound like an ass. That pompous, cute little story of how I insinuated-because there was a picture of a black kid, I must assume all blacks look alike since I thought it might be Eko. Which sounded self-rightous and silly. Again, like with so many others - it's not what you believe, it's how you express it. You can disagree without pulling a krycek and being insulting. I may not be all that intelligent - but I am well educated. Has to count for something. I'm not a smart man, Jenny - but I know what love is.
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The rat that runs the maze is the future rat's conciousness popped into the present rat's body for a short period time. After the maze is run, the conciousness pops back into the future, and the present rat is left as her old self, totally ignorant of the maze, and possibly that anything out of the oridinary happened at all. The knowledge doesn't stay with the present rat. It pops back into the future when the conciousness pops back into the future.
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Has anyone else brought this up...I'm sort of surprised he died last night, although I know that on Lost, like in comic books, no one stays dead forever. But it seemed weird to me. They've put Fisher Stevens on the opening credits all season, there was an announcement about his casting and it seemed to be a major one and then he appears on screen in one episode and dies? even if he's coming back in flashbacks that sort of seems anti-climactic. how many times can he pop up in a flashback if it can only be about the freighter crew?
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Ultimately, everything that has to happen, will happen. It's just the HOW that changes.
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Fantastic book, great read. The translations of Occitan and thediagrams of the photon/slits in board experiment - wonderful elements never explored in that abortion of a movie. The ability of a quantum computer - staggering. It amazes me how Hollywood can take great reads of Crichton (Sphere, Congo, Timeline,) and destroy them. Jurrsic was well done. Eaters of the Dead wasn't bad. Sill waiting for a remake of the Andromeda Strain. Prey would make a great movie if done right. I'd like to see Terminal Man made into a series. Maybe when they finally put ER out of it's misery. Working on "Next" right now. So far - not his best.
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the rat learns how to run the maze, and suddenly goes into a coma state because he gets transported to the past, to presumably run the maze in his yougner self for desmond and faraday. he either never wakes up because he can't handle the trip or dies almost immediately after he returns from the past due to the disorientation.
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Spoilers I guess?
It looks like Faraday is in a hatch, which we can guess is the Orchid with a buzzer like The Swan. Insane. -
If Daniel says you can't change the future why did Mrs. Hawking tell Desmond he can't get married or "all of us will die."
It's possible that this episode is the best time travel one ever but it still logically breaks down. -
I don't know if this has been talked about before. Is it posible that last episode offered a big clue on the nature of the monster. It could have been designed to create constants. We do know that it has ben shapeshifting into people from the characters past. At one point, someone (Dharma or another group) may have tried to solve the problem of people getting unstuck in time by creating constants on the island. Of course it went terribly wrong and turned into the monster. Might explain the sickness of Rousseau's people also (didn' t enter the island properly, so most of them got unstuck in time). Rousseau didn't go crazy because she had a constant (Alex, don't remember if she was born off or on the island) ....
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Chricton books are very entertaining. It's true Hollywood completely rapes these adaptations. I loved Sphere as a book but the movie was painful. Last I heard a studio bought the rights to Airframe, which doesn't seem like it would make a very exciting film.
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Carlton and Cuse have said that the flash-forwards are meant to tell their own linear story, and that they're not messing around with alternate realities and such. They specifically referenced the theory that Sayid's flash forwards were told out of sequence (did the man he murder at the beginning occur after he killed Elsa?) and how, just like every other episode arc, that story was told in chronological order. so I'm thinking that there is only one Jack, and that Beardy Jack is just Witness Jack a few years down the road.
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Timeline really did explain it well. Say you wanted to kill your Dad before you were born. That might sound easy in theory, but the universe would not allow it. Maybe you look him in the face and cannot pull the trigger Maybe you miss. The gun jams. Someone notices your gun and stops you. So it is not as easy in practice as it is in theory.
You want the Yankees to lose the World Series. What can 1 person really do? Shoot the #1 pitcher? His replacement might shine. Run on to the field to kill them all - someone would stop you. Plant a bomb...ok, everyone dies...but the Yankees still don't lose. They replay the game in a year and the Yankees still win. One person change history in a significant way - NO. A group of people maybe. But not an individual. -
Question - do his changes affect the 'actual' timeline or is it just meaningless in an alternate timeline?
It more like what Dan tells Des in the past. You can't change the future. I just listened to the podcast and D&C said they are not doing that type of paradox...where if you change something in the past the future changes. So it seems in their point of view we are fated to a conclusion regardless of our actions.
It also seems to go along the Des/Charlie line. No matter what des did to save Charlie, eventually he was going to die. About the only thing Des changed was he died honorably. In other words he changed the reason but not the outcome. -
i hate Carlton and Cuse. Damon and Lindelof are alot more fun.
just playing- don;t mean to flame or anything like that ;) -
You are right. I read the same article. Matthew Fox stated bearded/junkie Jack is roughly one 1/2 years from the point of 815's crash. Rescued in 4 months...so 14 months for the events with Hurley and Kate's trial. And Jack had definately deteriated by TTLG, was having morning screwdrivers(albeit weak) in BOTE and told Jack he was thinking of a beard. So TTLG is 14 mo after rescue, beard had to be started about what, 9 mo or so after rescue. That means Kate's trial was definately fast-tracked.
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* Smoke Monster as artificial constants (don't think its true, but GOOD THEORY!!)
* Being unstuck in time is the same as Rousseau's 'sickness' (GOOD THEORY!!)
* Alternate reality Jack is in the coffin (BAD THEORY!! DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT!!) -
So Desmond gets unstuck in time and is able to travel back and forth in conscience only. And we know the universe is made up of space and time, what if there is a way to get unstuck in space, where matter resides? Would this mean they would be able to physically move back and forth, and could somehow explain my Jack is in the coffin theory?
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Not a bad whodunnit, but not worth a movie! Shit. I heard they were remaking Andromeda - guess not. Prey would be a MUCH better adaption. But you are right alex, Hollywood will screw it up anyway. Timeline was a ready-made film if they simply followed the book. I actually thought Timeline would make an AWESOME series. Using the machines to do a "trip of the week" somewhere/sometime. Hey Bonnie Hanmmer - you listening?
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Not a bad whodunnit, but not worth a movie! Shit. I heard they were remaking Andromeda - guess not. Prey would be a MUCH better adaption. But you are right alex, Hollywood will screw it up anyway. Timeline was a ready-made film if they simply followed the book. I actually thought Timeline would make an AWESOME series. Using the machines to do a "trip of the week" somewhere/sometime. Hey Bonnie Hammer - you listening?
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Maxwell's Hammer: full-time elitist LOST asshole, part-time dumbass. Oh, the shame.
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So its not an alternatereality Jack, its actually himself two places at once. I remember something about two rabbits and them not supposed to touch each other, anyone else remember that?
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So its not an alternatereality Jack, its actually himself two places at once. I remember something about two rabbits and them not supposed to touch each other, anyone else remember that?
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After 3 years, my first double post. DRINKS ON ME!
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cant be possible, ditching my own theory
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Then why does Mrs. Hawking feel it's so important for Desmond not to marry Penelope? That implies that Desmond COULD HAVE done it if he wanted to. It was not set. Either Darlton messed up having her say that or one of Faraday/Mrs. Hawking is lying for some random reason.
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Orchid training video released at Comic-con. You-Tube it
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is part of that course correction. she isn't actually a person but a manifestation of the universe policing itself? geez i think i just my own eyes roll..
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I am a Chricton fan too, but I have to warn you. I've read Next and it is very unsatisfying. I kept reading waiting for it to get good but it doesn't. I also started reading State of Fear, but never finished it. Anyone else read that and know if it is worth finishing?
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Used to be my all time favorite author but sadly I couldn't finish State of Fear either...Never had the chance to pick up Next. I started to get into more prissy stuff like Neil Gaiman and now I'm all about heart. <- homo
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Never posted here before, but got inspired by last night's amizing episode. Here is a theory:
1) I believe the island exists in a wormhole. a wormhole is a hypothetical topological feature of spacetime that is basically a 'shortcut' through space and time. A wormhole has at least two mouths which are connected to a single throat or tube. If the wormhole is traversable, matter can 'travel' from one mouth to the other by passing through the throat. While there is no observational evidence for wormholes, spacetimes containing wormholes are known to be valid solutions in general relativity.
I think it is like the bermuda triangle. You can get into a wormhole, but it is only open through a very narrow gap. So you can be looking out over an ocean, but the island will not be visable unless you go through the wormhole and come out the otherside. It is not that the island does not exist, it was never discovered, because it exists in a place in the world where time and space are in flux and the only way to the island is an exact corridance. N. 305. This is the course that Faraday gave Frank (the pilot) and this is same cooridinates that Ben gave to Michael and Walt. And once entering the wormhole, there is no way out unless you follow the exact corridance back, so anyone who landed on the island are destined not to be found, because you could be flying over the island and not see it because you are not looking through the wormhole.
2) I think that travelling through the wormhole could have very serious consequences to you, like with Desmond, it can bend space and time and transport your consciousness back and forwards in time. The experiment Faraday ran with the rat, was that he used radiation and preassure to create a vortex, like a mini wormhole, where the rats consciousness traveled forward an hour, and remember learning a maze, in the present time that it hadn't learned yet.
3) This is what happended to Desmond when the Hatch exploded. I believe the hatch was a machine built by the Dharma Initiative to harness the unique time/space bending properties on the island to assist in teleportation and time travel experiments. When Desmond did not punch the button the first time, it released all on the built up energy opening the wormhole, just as flight 815 was flying through it, crashing the plane, and making the island visable until he hit in the numbers. The second time desmond did not hit the button with Locke, he hit the failsafe key which instead of releasing all of the energy outward, caused the hatch to implode, and desmond to be zapped by the energy, his consciousness to travel forward in time and giving him that ability to know something that would happen in the future (Charlie's death), just like the rat knew the maze.
4) I also think the hatch regulated time on the island to match time to the outside world. Once the hatch imploded, time is moving much slower on the Island than in the rest of the world, which is why the rocket took so long to get there and the helicopter took so long to get to the freighter. I thing that the Oceanic 6 might get off the isalnd and it might have been years since they left, but when the go back, it could be just a matter of months for the people left on the island. This will be used to explain why the next time we see Walt he is older, is because he has been living off island and time moves faster off isalnd now that the hatch was destroyed.
5) I believe that Tovar Hanso was a sailer on the blackrock, which crashed on the island and he lived there, but somehow managed to get off, and then write about the island and its unique capabilites. His descendants Alvar Hanso used his ancestors journal to find the island, and to have scientist conduct experiments on the island, I believe Charles Widmore, was a partner in the Hanso Foundation and knows of the island and its existance, but not its exact wherebouts and was bidding on Tovar Hanso's journal in 1996 either to help him find the island after they lost contact with it after the purge, or to stop others from finding it.
I also think that Rosseou (The french lady) traveled throught the wormhole, all her crew mates experiencing what desmond experienced (why she was immune, i don't know) the would all go crazy (like she said) and get nose bleeds and die from Brain anuerisms (like she said, they got sick)
I also think that from thier experiments, something happened to a scientist named Jacob, where he is lost is space and time, always shifting in his shack. Sometimes he is visable and sometimes he is not. Ben has been using Jacob, because being lost in time, he will know the future, allowing Ben to manipulate the info he provides, and all ways be a steo ahead of everyone else.
The whispers that we hear on the island sometimes are echos of past conversations that inhabitants on the island once had that are travelling to time and space and can be heard, only on teh occasions in fluxations with the islands environment, which is probably only when Jacob's cabin can be visable, which is why it was not there for Locke
I loved last nights episode. IT just gets better and better.
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When Mrs. Hawking originally appeared the writers did not have all of the details of the time distortion worked out yet so they had her do the cliched "This has to happen!" time travel bit. It created the tension of never having married Penelope. Also, last night's episode doesn't jive with Desmond rescuing Charlie two or three times last season. If you can't change the future then why COULD he even save Charlie? The writers need to decide...free will or predestination. They are mutually exclusive.The assumption that you can't change the future but you can delay it a little isn't logical. What defines "a little?"
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http://tinyurl.com/2e3oh7
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http://tinyurl.com/2e3oh7
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I think Mrs. Hawkings' point was that you can change the details, but the end result will always be the same.
ex: 1) he saved charlie a few times, but eventually, he would die, 2) he ended up buying the ring, but ended up losing the nerve to actually continue the relationship with Penny -
I've read some of Gaiman and I'm not sure how i feel about him. I read American Gods and wasn't sure if I liked it or was just happy to have finished reading it. Now I'm reading Anasai Boys and it is pretty entertaining. Still not sure if I'm a Gaiman fan or not.
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What decides what the important "end results" are and what the un-important details are? The universe doesn't care whether a dude dies or whether Hurley gets his peanut butter in Sawyer's chocolate. It's not like these writers on this show are the first to ever work out a coherent time travel story. I would argue that it's impossible.
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Thats a crazy video with a lot of weird stuff on the films background,anyone else notice. Noew im convinced thats Jack in the coffin.
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agree Desmond and Penelope = Deselope?????
Why??
Because if Jack ever fools around with her, we have a.....
JACKALOPE
Ba-Ding-Ding
tap...tap...tap
Is this thing on?
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Charles Widmore bid on and won the ship journal, which the auctioneer emphasized has not been read or opened by anyone since it was first found. That looks way too much like a set-up for a plot line that will be addressed later. (Perhaps 1996 Desmond will have to get his hands on it, and maybe Widmore will use it himself in regards to the island.)I think that scene also hinted as to who the "original" Others are/were (the crew of the Black Rock).
This episode also suggested what happened to Danielle's crew.Overall, great episode that started to tie several threads together and hinting at more connections and answers to come. I even found myself getting choked up when Desmond and Penelope finally spoke to one another -- and I'm not typically into romance stories. -
MHammer's right. The not changing the future thing is not changing the outcome. i.e. Charlie was going to die. des didn't/couldn't change the outcome. He allowed Charlie to die for a noble reason.
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It is not Jack in the coffin. It is impossible for him to be there. He is the one that eventually meets the coffin maker.
http://tinyurl.com/2e3oh7 -
Future rat jumps back and forth through time until it dies. The old rat, the one ignorant of the maze doesn't ever get to come back and be trained, because without a constant it dies.
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Its not Jack. No spoilers, not gonna touch this (intimately). But it is not Jack. #1 That would create a paradox. #2. We find out who is in the coffin in a couple of episodes. Having it be Jack would lose half the fans of Lost. Darlton Knows this.
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That help Epictetus?
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after more consideration, i agree it can't be Jack. Back to square one.
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It's been done before: see "Doctor Arzt" - insinuate a new character only to set up a surprise. See also Lou Diamond Phillips' appearance in Season 1 of "24".
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Gaiman is completely different animal than Chricton. I read Chricton for the clever techno thriller plots. But his novels have zero characterization. It's all about spiraling action. Most of his books read like movies...
Gaiman on the other hand is an acquired taste. His books are more like fables and he isn't concerned with reality- he's concerned with themes, and character development, and emotional impact (god im a homo). he's a writer's writer. You should check out his two short story collections, Smoke and Mirrors and Fragile Things. My favorite stories of his are out of these anthologies. And I am still waiting for the Good Omens adaptation to be made.....! -
Good to have a constant, though
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and than run like hell. Node - we all have our literary tastes. I rather enjoyed State of Fear. And - Global Warming is bad science. #2 - the boogie men were a little goofy, but if you think there are not tribes still practicing cannibalism - wiki his references in the back of the book. Wiki the dozens of scientific studies he uses to support "global warming as a world crisis" as being bunk. If you have the time sometime. You will be suprised. I was. Crichton is a fucking neurosurgeon who meticulously researches his books (look at his reference page in any of his books). Just sayin. Check it out sometime. And full-disclosure...I found so much research debunking global warming as "ohmygodohmygodohmygod crisis" years ago as part of a master's research project - so I already had a bias. When I read the book, he just wrote about what I already believed so its no wonder I liked it. If you support a "global warming crisis theory" the book will offend. That's why Hollywood came crashing down on him despite his pedigree and reamed him a new one. Also why you'll never see a movie version. Not his best work anyway.
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You begin on the island Alone, your girl companion of your past you find out in your journey was killed because of a choice you made.
During your stint on the island your character changes to the point where you wouldn't sacrafice anyone. You then leave the island with a bearing of 135 degrees.
As you are leaving the island you look up into the air and see the crashing Oceanic Flight 815 Above your head. You then wake up again, on the beach, right after the wreck happened. Only this time, your companion that was dead and haunting your whole previous time on the island is with you..
After seeing tonights episode, I am taking it as when he left the island his consiousness was transported back in time. He then made the choice to save his friend instead of let her die, and thus The whole events of the game never transpired, and he's back on the island, now Anchored in time by his constant. -
please bear with me. it's my first crack so it's bound to have holes. there's still some things that i can't explain but i like this crowd and want to hear what you think. this will be fragmented.
the island is a singularity of sorts. not in the sense of the theorized "singularity" from hawking and origins of the big bang stuff. it exists in two distinct realities. one reality, the reality we know, is the reality in which 1996 des was. this was the reality that the 815 survivors came from. the other reality is the island's universe. at the center of this universe is a deity and that deity is the island.
LOST yet?
now. what this does (in a very cheap shortcut kind of way) is explain automatically almost every anomaly that we have seen on the island. the truth is, the mystery of DI, hanso, polar bears, smoke monsters, character connections, hostiles, natives, stations, it is all part of the mythology of the island. it needs no explanation. imagine the island as a deity who sits in a bath tub (it's reality) and plays with it's toys.
now, the island exists in our reality as a place with various scientific anamolies and is located in the south pacific but is nearly impossible to find because it spends most of its time off the coast hidden off the coast of madagascar in the island reality. their are two doors to this singularity. one in the pacific and one of the coast of africa.
now, let's talk about what DOES exist both in the island's reality and our reality. Desmond exists in both. The electromagnetic properties of the island are real and these properties are the engine of the singularity. Desmond has become able to exist in both realities, but never at the same time. same with minkowski
Walt exists in both. He is special. It has something to do with the fucked up electromagnetic shit that goes on with him that makes birds kamikaze themselves because they have no idea where they are going.
Ben Linus travels between both realities, but he does it physically. This is because he doesn't need to use any bearing to get in and out. he uses the "magic box" that daniel farraday created, which he took by either force or stealth. danny did it! he created a machine that could transport both mind and body between both realities.
Here are some things that might suprise you to know DON'T exist outside of the island's reality. First off, many of the experiences we've seen the characters have in flashbacks just didn't happen that way in our universe. personal experiences that shaped who these characters are happened, but the interconnectivity was never real. i.e. christian shepherd having a convo with sawyer in sydney back in season one. never happened in our reality. nor in sawyers. the island gave him that memory. that is part of the island's reality and thus those memories were fabricated. The DI never existed in our reality. Neither did Hanso. Now, the hanso that went there on the black rock did exist. It was his diary that made it possible for Mr. Widmore to get that freighter to the island because there was a bearing or directions or something in there. and the diary was sold at auction by someone who's been sneaking behind ben's back on the island (richard? since he has been off the island to get juliet, they are a crossover character too). the oceanic six got home by farraday's machine, that's why they don't have the fucked up consciousness shifting.
now, my theory is going to stop there for now and i'm just going to do some rebuttals with questions that arise to see if it holds. but lastly, here's some fun things that support my theory.
the numbers exist only in the island reality. did you notice mr. widmores bidder ID number at the auction was 755. the other bidder number was something else but neither number had anything to do with THE numbers. (i'm sure some of you will give me some way of making it to the numbers from 755, but hey you can find SOME way back to any set of numbers). that's because in that reality, those numbers don't mean anything. now, the numbers did work their way into that universe but only when it had to do with the island. like hanso's journal being item 2342 at the auction. that's just a carry over of the island's mythology with objects that have been in both. desmond's affection for penny exists in both so her flat number was like 423 or something number related.
the black and white imagery throughout the show represents both realities.
i don't know, whatch yall think.
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This will prob. piss a lot of people off, but "Good Omens" was one of the biggest disappointments ever. It felt like it was trying to be too hip. It may be a case of having too high expectations. One thing that endures: I still laugh when I think of the maxim that all audio cassettes, when left in a car long enough, become "Queen's Greatest Hits".
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Time for the executive's bored meeting anyway, but I think I'll get out of here before Mile's breakfast explodes.
Have at it node...or not. -
Not sure about your theory, but you've got a great user name and at least you're staying true to it - working on some real experimental shit.
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You begin on the island Alone, your girl companion of your past you find out in your journey was killed because of a choice you made. During your stint on the island your character changes to the point where you wouldn't sacrafice anyone. You then leave the island with a bearing of 135 degrees. As you are leaving the island you look up into the air and see the crashing Oceanic Flight 815 Above your head. You then wake up again, on the beach, right after the wreck happened. Only this time, your companion that was dead and haunting your whole previous time on the island is with you.. After seeing tonights episode, I am taking it as when he left the island his consiousness was transported back in time. He then made the choice to save his friend instead of let her die, and thus The whole events of the game never transpired, and he's back on the island, now Anchored in time by his constant.
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one side effect of the island is that everyone has something extrordinary and beneficial happen to them, which is why ben and locke protect this reality so fiercely.
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You begin on the island Alone, your girl companion of your past you find out in your journey was killed because of a choice you made. During your stint on the island your character changes to the point where you wouldn't sacrafice anyone. You then leave the island with a bearing of 135 degrees. As you are leaving the island you look up into the air and see the crashing Oceanic Flight 815 Above your head. You then wake up again, on the beach, right after the wreck happened. Only this time, your companion that was dead and haunting your whole previous time on the island is with you.. After seeing tonights episode, I am taking it as when he left the island his consiousness was transported back in time. He then made the choice to save his friend instead of let her die, and thus The whole events of the game never transpired, and he's back on the island, now Anchored in time by his constant.
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That Mrs. Hawking says "we all die IF you get married?" I'm not buying that.
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once you come to the island, how you got there could be a complete fabrication of the island.
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nice reference. good to meet a fellow D-sciple
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I love Deselope as much as the next person on this board and think they moment at the end was probably the best emotional bit of Lost ever, just surpassing Charlie's death scene. But I think its mostly due to Henry Ian Cusack' acting and not much because of chemistry between the two. I've seen that Penny actor elsewhere and she's very uninteresting. Its only when Desmond in his fabulous accent and expressive eyebrows moons over "Penny" do we in turn moon over her, saying "Pehnny"! Still they are what makes Lost an emotionally gripping show. Them, Charlie and to some extent Sayid just cuz he exists.
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Did you read it because you are a Neil Gaiman fan or Terry Pratchet fan? They are pretty similar but I think you can pick up some parts where your like....'Pratchet totally wrote this section of the book' His nudge-in-the-ribs style of writing is a little more apparent than Gaiman's (altho Gaiman can just as 'cute' at times). I read that Initially Gaiman wrote most of 'the Them' stuff while Pratchett did a good deal of the angel/demon stuff but eventually they went back and forth and edited each other's sections. Side Note: the opening garden of eden chapter was originally a short story by Neil Gaiman.
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Damn good episode. The ending was brilliant. Makes me wonder if Locke and other characters are just time traveling back and forth instead of flashbacks.
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Reading Sandman as it was coming out was quite a trippy experience. So was going to visit friends at MIT and coming away that every girl there wanted to be Death because they were all running around with ankh necklaces. I've actually stayed away from Pratchett because of the experience so I am otherwise unfamiliar with his work. I don't begrudge the experience of reading "Good Omens". It was simply the book equivilent of "Hey guys, did you know that SAM RAIMI and THE COEN BROTHERS made a film together? It's called CRIMEWAVE!!!! Let's go watch it!"
Hijinx ensue. -
read my above theory. wanna hear your thoughts.
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get back home via the "magic box" which is daniel farraday's completed time machine, which was stolen from him by ben linus. this is why they are in ben's pocket (or at least sayid is) ben let them off the island and to protect the other survivors if they work for him on the outside.
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did you notice when 1996 des seemingly felt like he'd made contact with future penny because he suddenly smiled and looked relieved in 96. well daniel farraday had this same phenomenon. he felt extremely saddened by the 815 wreck and didn't know why. somehow the emotions made it through.
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you're right about the yellow serum, or righter than i am, anyway. that makes way more sense.
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'wink'
(ducks under cover again) -
Whoever above said that travelling in an 'open vessel' to the island would expose you to radiation-- good call. that would explain the necessity to use a submarine for Alpert et al., people who seem to hold all the cards.So does 815 count as an open vessel, since it broke apart, or not?Also.. i thought the Black Rock part of last night's ep was great.. but i am betting "The Log of the Black Rock" will be available for purchase around say june/july 2008. "Bad Twin", or for that matter "The Diary of Laura Palmer," all over again.
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crazy thought that when we saw Faraday crying in 'Confirmed Dead' he just came back from being pulled into the present by some time travel experiment he does on the island in an upcoming episode. maybe he had just found his constant and so he ended up forgetting about his trip and didnt know why he was crying... Maybe some kind of 'Butterfly Effect' where his memory lapses are really his trips through time?
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technically, he just went to med school and did a residency. He never practiced medicine as a profession or even specialized in srugery, much less neurosurgery.
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wish i put this much thought into my actual job
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well after a full day of doing nothing at work but posting on this TB, i need to bring something up that none of you seem to have realized: Bai Ling is hideous. Have you seen her mugshot photo? She looks like a tranny hooker (not one of those hot ladyboy ones, but she looks like Heroes' Ando in drag). Stranger in a Strange Land just lost the little cred it had.
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when you put it that way. God yes the overall story is just a far-fetched story of fiction. He's an educated man who has been successful at writing adventure stories for 30 years. Is he only used stuff to support his story of fiction? Sure? Skewed some stuff too. It's make-believe. I'm just talking in general terms about 2 points. Global warming as a threat to end the world as we know it is bunk science. The best climatologists in the world are UW-Madison (VERY liberal school I might add) and have shown it to be a pattern repeated many times in the past and will repeat many times in the future. The earth is resiliant. It will survive us. There's evudence out there I'm wrong too. And - the canibalism thing was a dumb plot device...but it has a basis in reality. Just not a likely one. I don't even know why I'm defending the book - it's not all that great. I am just a Crichton lacky. I love his stuff. Guilty pleasure.
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I bet he was the one who cut the wires.
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Are you sure? Did you read 5 Patients? (non-fiction) If you are right, I lost a little hero worship today.
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Guess you are right Alex. But still, one smart dude:
He attended Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts, as an undergraduate, graduating summa cum laude in 1964.[3] Crichton was also initiated into the Phi Beta Kappa Society. He went on to become the Henry Russell Shaw Traveling Fellow from 1964 to 1965 and Visiting Lecturer in Anthropology at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom in 1965. He graduated from Harvard Medical School, obtaining an M.D. in 1969, and did post-doctoral fellowship study at the Jonas Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, from 1969 to 1970. In 1988, he was Visiting Writer at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. While in medical school, he wrote novels under the pen names John Lange and Jeffery Hudson. A Case of Need, written under the latter pseudonym, won the 1969 Edgar Award for Best Novel. -
Demi Moore's blowjob in disclosure. How in the hell could I forget Demi in her prime giving head? Not to mention Rising Sun wasn't a bad adaption.
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Crichton > Gore
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Feb 29, 2008 4:17:50 PM CST
The Lost Gam ending is a rip off of the Dark Tower
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Which was already a pretty lame ending.
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Sam really screwed up the timeline!
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Feb 29, 2008 4:33:18 PM CST
I don't get this confusion over the time difference
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Nobody but us fans ever postulated the idea that the island and the "real world" were out of sync. Now it's obvious that that isn't the case, there's just a "bubble" of sorts around the island, and passing through it causes weird things to happen and more time passes than what it physically takes to cross the distance.
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just kidding but great ep, And Faraday continues to be the best new character on the show. I don't have much to add or theorize just having fun sitting back enjoying the ride. Team Jack!
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Amen Brother. Just remember, without Al, we wouldn't have the internet to talk to each other. ;)
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Great Scott!
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1000 posts within 24 hours of the Ep ending. That is damn impressive.
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yea i totally agree with you that crichton is a smart guy. i mean just graduating from harvard med school alone is an accomplishment...
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Oh, and isn't next week Juliet?
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Faraday SAYS that time passes differently on the island than it does in real life... So there's just a bubble of missing time around the island, but both the island and the outside world are fine? It doesn't make sense to me...
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Why did he want to talk to him? Why didn't Desmond remember talking to the old lady before? How does Minowski remember his time travel but Desmond doesn't?
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I bet it was Frank.
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I missed where she was brought up and he didn't remember her...
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in time and met an old Oracle type lady who told Desmond that he shouldn't marry Penny, or everyone will die.
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Anybody notice the bleeding orifices lifted directly from Primer (which handled time travel oh-so-much-more gracefully)? Don't get me wrong -- I immediately forgave them this horrific "find your constant" plot kludge when it payed off emotionally with the phone call to Penny. Not to mention forgiving them for Minkowski waking up so quickly from the shot, the scary boat dudes leaving the Losties alone EVEN AFTER they had fucked around in the sick bay, the lab rat's super-compressed timeline (clever little guy sure must have learned that maze FAST), etc., etc. I just hope they won't squander all of the ardor for (and investment in) the show with too many of these ham-handed devices, now that the answer train is rolling into town.
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Wasn't Frank inside the room whose door got left open? I assumed it was Ben's plant on the boat (unless said plant turns out to have been Minkowski) who left the door open.
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Oh yeah, I forgot: the boat dudes took Frank with them. Well, that being the case, I doubt it was Frank, because they're probably having a little talk with him about the importance of trust.
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Where ddi you guys get the idea that desmond didn't remember her?
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Jack and Kate's on-off relationship is shallow compared to the transcendence of Desmond and Penelope's.
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talking about Minowski?
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were cut on the boat, how could they be calling the island back and forth?
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looked extremely similar to the way the sky turned at the end of Season 2 when the button didn't get pressed. Also, the sound effect that accompanied the whole freaky sky thing when the button didn't get pressed, is the sound of two EM fields going out of phase. Obviously whatever the button did had to do with a huge Island wide EM field. What I wondered when watching that season finale was whether the Button machine was holding something in or keeping something out. There is a clue in the fact that when the Button machine stopped doing what it was doing, the sky turned a pinkish-orange hue. Which is referred to as red-shift in light, which means the wavelength was getting longer. Normally this indicates the object emiting the light is moving away from you, but since the distance between the sun and the earth was not changing, something in between, in the general vicinity of the Island, was causing the light to 'slow down' as it got close to the Island. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'world ending' threat of the Button not being pressed would have been the magnetic field of the earth collapsing due to having a 3rd pole added.
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Best season yet and easily the best show on network TV. Sticking by Lost is paying off in spades. This was one of the tensest episodes the show has had yet. The writers have set us up to expect bad things to happen to cast members so the series carries a weight for each episode that few dramas can match.
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Thanks, Nova. Yeah, I must've forgotten about the transmission. Like a normal person does. JBouganim, you can stick your CAPS up your ass, pal. Sorry I don't re-watch every episode of the show on a loop every week.
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Now post places to download this crack-like TV substance so those of us in the UK who DON'T have Sky can watch it too ;D
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Who knew that Harry was arrested...
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0229081mugs1.html -
I'm impressed that you strung all those ideas together in a coherent manner, mostly using actual stuff from the show.
I think the biggest thing that doesn't hold water (in my asshole opinion) is that there are multiple realities, and that the flashback events didn't really happen. Darlton have stated that the flash-forwards and are a solid part of the over-all timeline (not just possible futures), so it would seem like a pretty big cop-out if the flash-backs (the shows whole gimmick for 3 seasons) were suddenly not a part of the timeline.
Also, I think the 'magic box' is just a metaphor and I'm pretty sure Faraday didn't build any kind of machine that anyone stole. Ben gets back and forth from the island the same way Richard and Ethan and Juliet did, with the submarine (which is now all blowed up).
I think overall, the theory is just taking too many assumptions about things that probably aren't true, like the alternate dimensions and the island as a diety.
I do, however, think Charles Widmore and his hunt for the Black Rock are a big part of the story. And who the hell knows what's going on with Walt. Maybe HE'S the deity? (no, actually, he's not.) -
1) Those boat people are some paranoid motherfuckers. Do you really think they picked up Michael at sea, then let him roam around on the boat in such a way that he could gather information, report to Ben, and sabotage the radio room? I'm thinking Michael ain't the mole.
2) Fisher Stevens apparently reported to work recently to film some new stuff, so I'm thinking we haven't seen the last of Minkowski. (unless we just get to see an entire season of his corpse, like that poor bastard, Naomi.) -
They're all dead..
But that thing about Daniel crying being linked to time travel is pretty mind shattering. Wicked. -
The actress who played Naomi got a pretty decent deal, besides the inconvenience of going all the way back to Hawaii to say about 5 lines then lay dead for the next 3 episodes. I'm going to bet that her corpse will be on the freighter and later in civilization. Damn, she's got a good gig going. Don't do shit and get paid for it!
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Nice job tracking that down. Yup - my alma mater. Don't be fooled by the voice and tone of the research presentations. I attended some of a similar series 3 years ago. Dissenting views are powerful and in great number.
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I know I'm about half a day late with this rebuttal, but the "Japanese Surrealism" was a dig at someone else. If I were going to brag about my literary credentials, I'd reference Tolstoy. or possibly Dr. Seuss.
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Your theory about Michael and Walt is the first sensible time travel theory I've read. Kudos to you, bud.
Sorry I'm posting replies to messages from hours and hours and hours ago. I've had a busy day and am just getting around to reading some of stuff between last night and this afternoon... -
Did Widmore know what was going on when Des came to him? He wasn't the least bit surprised to see him and even helped him get his story straight -
"I take it you've had second thoughts and you'd like her to give you another chance..."
Seems like every time they meet he gives Des a chance to take the easy way out - like a test...
I'm starting to understand what the producers mean when they say the story will unfold in the proper order, jumping back and forth in time, like a book - like Pulp Fiction in a way, as someone has already mentioned.
So until that particular moment in 2004 there was a sort of alternative universe which loops back to 1996. Des lived those alternative eight years not knowing Faraday or Penny's phone number - and a whole bunch of other stuff - but the island allows him to ride the loop back and forth, thus influencing events and altering the universe inside that loop. The first time Sayid asked him for the phone number he really didn't know it - let me be clear about this - NEITHER 1996 nor (dormant) 2004 Des knew Penny's phone number until he did another loop the loop. It's not a paradox because they cheat and allow him to have an anchor - a "constant" - and that's how he avoids the paradox which would ultimately fry his brain, otherwise.
Ahh the irony in having Minkowski haemorrhage under the weight of his own paradox! I bet when he was on that ferris wheel he was sticking a knife into his own grandfather!
heheh - interesting actually, that 2004-Minkowski made a comeback before he died - I presume that was all 2004-Minkowski we saw, right? It affects different people in different ways right? I wonder how it affected Ben?
So glad to hear all the Slaughterhouse Five references! I was totally thinking of the Tralfamadorian holistic view of time last week when I was considering Ben having a sort of future-knowledge of events - having that same holistic view, in fact...
So Faraday's memory is indeed rubbish - and that's why he needs his journal? When Des asks Faraday why he doesn't protect his head from the radiation, Faraday says something like "indeed" - like what would be the point? If he ends up time travelling like Des, like Eloise (nice H.G. Wells reference!) - which is a fairly safe assumption - he needs to have a strong enough mind and he needs a constant, or he will die.
AARGHGH! My brain's hurtin jus processing all this!
btw did anyone spot somebody familiar (besides Widmore!) at that auction? -
I rewatched the episode, my girlfriend had not seen it yet.
Numerous times, but not all, when Des goes back it, there is running water...rain and the running faucet predominately.
Thoughts? -
Hi
Bit late to the party, but just watched the "Brutha" episode and wow was so impressed.
Like many have said I really like the new additions to the cast this year, and there is no treading water at all.
If only all tv could be this good.
This episode was probably the best written episode of the season, and one of the best written Lost episodes thus far. Last week's episode was great but the writing was a little too loose and sloppy in patches, this was brilliant.
Henry Cusisk - this guy was incredible and probably along with Michael Emerson the best actors on the show.
Can't really say enough, about how good this show is, I'm addicted.
Part of me is looking forward to the next episode the other part of me is thinking - only have 8 episodes left this season. -
My guess the symbolism of water as a flow, as a connection.
For instance kanji (Japanese characters), the symbol for closed door shows a gate and tree, the tree represents a tree blocking a river.
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it sounded like the hatch alarm? I thought Desmond would hear that alarm and go, "Hatch! I was IN A HATCH!"
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My fellow Aussies will hopefully get that, as well as some of the Brits.
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Anybody else tired of the 'subtitles for the comprehending-deprived' pop-ups for the re-run episodes? ABC must think the regular audience for this show must be a bit on the slow side? Cause for sheer obviousness on what's going on the screen, the only thing I could that could top it is der Governator's insightful
"commentary" on CONAN THE BARBARIAN...
Though the filming trivia bits are intresting (yes I KNOW it's shot in Hawaii), they're better served as an extra Subtitle option on the season dvd set. You know, one you could turn OFF if you'd like to? -
The damn words cover half the screen.
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Does anyone else think that Sayid may be the one responsible for the death of the man in the coffin and that Micheal is who Ben was referring to when he told Sayid, "I have another name for you"?
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I don't know if anyone has speculated this yet or not, (don't have enough time to keep up with these awesome posts) but I think Ben's man on the freighter is Miles. Miles wasn't blackmailing Ben for 3.2 million in one week, he was giving him a time and place for a rescue. But it wouldn't sound like that to Kate. Wasn't the bearings Ben gave Michael and Walt 3.2? Somehow Jack will witness one of the hostile freighter folk killing Claire, realize Ben was right about them, and jumping on with Ben, Miles, Hurley, Sayid, Kate and Aaron. (The Oceanic 6, because Ben can take someone's identity who had "no friends or family")I believe Ben is in the coffin, and that kills Jack because he believes Ben is his ticket back to the island. He really wants to get back and help his friends, who may not be in immediate peril because the company is still tyring to find out whether there were any more survivors. Just my guess.
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Beware the alternate bearded timeline!!!! It's gonna get you!!!
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Dude - your link froze up my computer. Not cool.
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Desmond, Sawyer, Hurley or Sayid?
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and when Jack says it's been 100 days since he saw that game Frank doesn't say a damn thing...
I love the idea that Faraday crying and saying "I don't know" why is because he was unstuck in time - Desmond couldn't be his constant at that point in his life, could he?
So Ben's man on the boat destroyed communications and opened the door for Des and Sayid? Couldn't be any of the people on the island at the time (including Frank) or Minkowski and I'd be damn surprised if it was Michael actually, at this point. Can't see them giving him that kinda freedom on their boat - I'm thinking Ben gave Michael a dodgy heading as a parting gift, hoping he never has anything to do with Walt ever again - but we know Michael survives and if that was truly Walt helping Locke then he survives too - but I think it's beyond speculation they might be on the freighter.
Either it's someone we just met (that scary doctor who obviously injected Minkowski with a placebo and wasn't interested in giving Des the same?) or maybe someone we've only heard so far? -
Someone has mentioned this before, but I don't think it's Miles. Miles is so adamant in catching Ben. If he is too much so, his team might suspect something. Ben's questioning of the 3.2 mill means something, but I don't think it was a code. The bearings Ben gave Michael was 325. And - no way Miles can be one of the Oceanic 6. Back to the drawing board!
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I'm so glad I took the plunge into lost about a year after it came on. I've been missing episodes because of late hours at work, so I have had to watch on Fridays. Tortuous!
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was probably the freighter. I bet Michael's spying on the freighter people. Walt went back to the island to help Locke, and then simply went back to Michael and the boat. Locke thinks he saw a vision. But he probably just saw the real Walt.
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Though Sawyer could use a good trim. Not talking about Kate, either!
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So someone explain the time anomoly with the boat - Sayid wants to know why they took off at dusk and landed at midday, so we know there is a time problem. Yet it's X-mas eve on the island and the boat? Are they behind or ahead on the boat, compared to the Island? Seems to me they're behind.
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Just watched the episode on Tivo. I think someone is going to have explain it to me. Very Slaughterhouse five like.
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frieghter is constant.
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Huge lost fan, love talkback after each episode. Is it possible that this is the first lost talkback without any haters? I mean even haters liked this episode. I love reading people's theories, but keep short and too point, use bulleted text. Much easier to read. just my two cents. (One of the frieghter people in the coffin) How about Daniel? who knows.
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You always have such a unique way of expressing yourself. Very inward, yet expressive, very uncharacteristic for the people I have met with Asperger's, mild or otherwise. Great impression of the episode. Had to say something about it because it was pretty moving stuff, not unlike the episode itself.
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So Dharma had a computer operated device that kept the island's magnetism in check but what was used before this invention existed? Was the magnetism left unchecked in the past or was it something "triggered" or "invented" by Dharma in the 70s and then needed to be controlled?
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I haven't read all of the posts, but did anyone else notice that while it was Desmond's 1996 mind that flahed into his 2004 body, it seemed that it was Minkowski's 2004 mind that flashed somewhere else. He knew that he was the ship's communications officer and he knew that Penny had been trying to call the ship. Desmond had no ides why he was on a helicopter or who Sayid was. Minkowski may have been told why he was on the ship and who everyone was, but it didn't seem that way.
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I do have one thought, The reason why Faraday can't remember things has to be because Faraday never used any protection when using his time machine thing, when Des ask Dan what about protecting the head from radiation he looks at him kind of confused and doesn't answer , all that radiation to the head must have made Dan loose some of his memory.
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Carlton Cuse has specifically referenced the finale of Next Generation as a personal influence for Lost. In fact, the anomaly from the finale was called, "The Constant"!
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Team Jack!
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on the boat, because ben sent them to different headings then faraday told frank to fly in...305-325
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Mar 01, 2008 1:04:25 AM CST
Why all the Alternate reality and Ben from the Future speculatio
by g100
I see alot of theories about "Future selves" of various characters interacting with "present" characters that have been initiated by this Ep but I have to say, why ? This to me was a specifically Desmond Episode that is similar to his last Time Flashes and I somehow doubt every character is going to go through this as it is an effect of the hatch AND slight heading deviation. Besides despite all the commonalities not many would survive becoming unstuck in time without a constant and instruction from Faraday so I will speculate we are probably only going to get this kind of Episode from either Desmond or Faraday. (Oh and Desmond in the coffin ?? I don't think so. He & Penny are too integral now.)
Also the only evidence I can remember of physical Time travel are the excavated Polar Bear and perhaps the skeletal couple. Who ARE crucial but won't be adressed this season (Possibly Naomi Dorrit's task after 4 toed statue and "the Temple". Which might be the end of season reveal or next season opener)
Multiple timelines are hinted at in Faraday's journal but too many and you simply devalue the show TBH. In a TV show universe where absolutely anything can happen nothing is of real significance. So I would guess if they go for any alternate realities then at the most there would be one catastrophic one they are all trying to prevent. (Problem being it's hardly an original plot these days as well as the fact that the show has said several times now the future cannot be altered.)
Final thoughts. The Volcano is still to be featured, Bens childhood sweetheart Annie and her fate plays a crucial role. Richard Alpert had a "piratey" look to me on Ben's flashback so is he a Black Rock original ?
P.S. Anyone know when season 5 is planned to begin ? -
be careful with your toys my friend. You could lose an arm or something ;)
Do you think the incident involved the attempt to take Danny's work to another level -a physical trip (not just consciousness) in time...Wickmund grabs "his" own arm (the reason he freaked about the bunnies getting too close to each other) and the arms -meld/distort/implode..who knows, but bad things. Possibly they have accidently created a couple Dr. Marvins...hence the need for different last names. Just speculating. I think we are geting close to an answer about this soon
(ie Bad Twin, Ben clone, visions of dead/missing folk)
Maybe this is way off the mark. But Dharma was up to something other than shifting consciousnesses...those were 2 bunny 15s and the "field was set to -20 ?...something like that. Bunny was to go back 20 minutes, but somehow manifested early right there behind him?
Des is traveling 8 years apart...little chance of a Wickmund type accident for now. But if he stumbles on to something in the Orchid (where Juliet is heading in the net Ep in a flashback ...Ren says: "eeeeeeeee!!!"
THIS is going to be good. The clips we see...is it CS and Danny messing with that same equipment in the Orchid? No wonder Juliet wants to shoot them. Is it Thursday yet?? -
was before Danny at Oxford. Maybe Danny is inspired by Dharma then.
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I might've spelled that wrong, but I'm sitting here watching an episode of Alias (I'm borrowing the DVDs from a friend) and I thought for a second it was Lost. I swear the score for the episode I'm watching has been on Lost before, too. Almost as bad as Elfman. Who I love, but he's got his constants...
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Another thing to puzzle over is that there may not be an awful lot of Island action if the Oceanic 6 don't return soon and the frieghter leaves with it's crew as there are not too many Big others and Losties left without em. So perhaps the off Island adventures may not last that long.
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by how gorgous Evangeline Lilly is with some make-up and a tight skirt. In the lawyer's car early in Eggtown, as she puts on the shades...wow. But even more impressive (yes a little more than Elizabeth Mitchell's cans) is Rebecca Mader COMPLETELY plain as we see her now. Those eyes, body, hair, accent. Picturing her walking out of a shower - she is so naturally beautiful... still want my Claire bear. But CS has my attention these days.
Asked this once and am still curious on the who would you rather:
GothClaire...Lost.........or
ClaireBear...Heroes (must dress in chearleading outfit).
Just askin. -
That really that suprising - I'm sure JJ has his group of folks he works with...music scores would be no exception. As long as you on't watch Trek and thik you are watching Alias while watching Lost. (huh?)
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I don't think its a given that Daniel is unstuck in time. He knows the rules of how this works, so just in case he might become unstuck, Desmond will be his constant. The note in his notebook read "IF ANYTHING GOES WRONG..."
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to the writer's and creater's great suprise, Des is becoming a more liked and possibly more important character than Jack (our main protagonist). Could they find a way to kill off Jack as a HUGE suprise...maybe as a sacrifice to free the others once he heads back to the island. As long as there is hope for Des and Penny...there is a show. Or am I nuts?
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im not quite sure its a given that daniel is stuck in time, but he does know if he does get shifty, that he can hunt down desmond in 96 or 04
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when he was on that phone to Penny and it was basically ringing to save his life I was near on the floor saying 'answer the fucking phone'....brilliant
the time change seems to only affect people who have been in contact with radiation or electromagnetism....ah the hatch comes back again to haunt folk...
Daniel having Desmond as his failsafe was a good move too..he obviously was subjected to alot of radioation murdering Eloise so its weird how he didnt get affected...
I've been looking forward to Fisher Stevens being in teh show now for a while, I hope thats not the end of him..
Sayid is getting some great adventures this season,,, bout bloody time as well
I love Penny's funbags
Nice to see old Charlie having a piss while talking to Des, and the black rock details, maybe this is the start of the search for Charlie and the Island..
an all round absolutly stunning episode...Des episodes have taken over Lockes for greatness in my eyes...they are constantly fantastic
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You fuck all the women in this time period and i'll fuck them all in 1996..the good old days before I turned impotent
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great character, he is giving us wee snippets of answers..his exposition is fantastically written and I think he says it all out loud to see if everyone else kinda agrees...Jack and all aint got a clue what he is talking about, Des certainly doesnt have a clue...fucking great character so far...Dan has some answers in taht fucked up head of his
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Really seems to me that next season or in the final season, Desmond will have to flash to his 1996 self, steal the journal from Charles Widmore and look for something vital in it.
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Because single-handedly I have no interest in anything else that is going on in Lost. The thought of finding out what is going down with Sawyer and Locke leaves me feeling bored. Thats how much this Desmond stuff got me excited...
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it has been theorized that the different heading Michael and Walt were sent on to leave the island and that the helicoptor was sent on to travel to the freighter "prove" that Michael can't be on the freighter. Without having an opinion about the "Michael is Ben's man on the boat" theory at all, I'd just like to state the obvious: Boats move.
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this is the t-shirt you wanna wear http://i198.photo bucket.com/alb ums/aa259/Licker1984/DSCN9121.jpg remove the spaces
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Mike and Walt are off on their own advertures as we soon will see - one thing I'm fairly certain of.
No matter how much some hope Ben ends up some sort of Good Guy...I doubt he cares enough about Sayid and Des to send Mike on a mission to save them. Save himself maybe, but not the 815ers. Unless he is REALLY a master puppeteer and Des/Sayid serve a his purpose later. -
jeandubacher - do you have any idea what that poster is behind the dude? Looks like several peepshots above a public toilet.
To each their own... -
thought maybe your students tied you up and left you in a storage closet.
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As for the time perception difference, the travel time on board the helo was 20 some mins (also the expected duration), the time passed on the island AND on the ship was 1/2 day and change (took off at dusk, arrived at midday, Sayid contacted Jack..Losties waiting on the beach midday, same relative time). That is not a function of time (travel or displacement), that is a function of space. The boat is not forty miles from the island. The cruise speed of a Uh-1 is around 200kph/120 mph (less weather). So that works out to 12-18 hours(1/2 a day) min/max @ 120mph, or 1400 to 2100 miles distance. The boat is physically, actually 1400 to 2100 miles away spatially. That would correlate with the sounding rocket experiment Farraday conducted in ep 4.3.
An AMRAAM missle travels at Mach 4(~3050mph), a sounding rocket like Farraday used..near the same. If you plug in the rocket speed with the 31 min 20 sec differential you get roughly the same distance. The rocket did not travel 40 miles it traveled 1400 to 2100 miles. The island is not slower than than the real world it is farther.he he. fun. This also explains how the Phone and Farraday's beacon are rcv'd near real time on the Ship and vice versa. The communication between the phones just like our elec comm devices operate at speed of light, less switching and trunking stacks, so communication and beacon acquisition will be instantaneous over a distance of even several thousand miles. The boat and the island are in/on the same time. Convenient that there was a thunderstorm to obscure visual reference for the Helo passengers. LOL..So, there is an anomaly (wormhole? hypersphere junction? dimensional hyperplane? who knows..) that exists between the island and the ship, that shortens the spatial distance from 1400-2100 miles to around 40..you have to picture..well, it is the old wormhole analogy isn't it...run around to the opposite side of a mountain at maximum speed will take longer than walking through a tunnel crossing to the other side..and a light shined through or phone call made on radio device will always beat the traveler through said tunnel.
And like a tunnel through a mountain, there is an entry point and an exit point..miss the opening by not flying or sailing on the correct bearing you wind up between a rock and a hard place as it where..or off in the middle of the ocean..or even an ocean of time perhaps...And in this case we don't know all of the bearings of all of the tunnels. 305 N will take you to the entry point to the boat..325 will take you to rescue (as Ben told Mike)..where does 180 or 265 or 42 go, ...when does it go?What about Desmond hopping to fro between '96 and '04 you query? who knows...some think consciousness operates in higher dimensions. Some, theorizing in the world of higher dimensional polytopes consider hypercubes when modeling time displacement. If an object or person is able to move from one line of the polytope to another at any junction point, they would in essence be moving not with time, but in a straight line perpendicular to it, not traveling in time but able to stop time and then start it again. kind of like Desmond.the unpresent. awesome.
also, the reason Desmondo could not save Charlie is the intrinsic and 'inevitable probability' of the event. Charlie's probability of death (the event, the constant) was 100% or as near as anything can be 100.00 % math wise..his flavor of death, ie, the manner, was variable. Desmond could adjust the equation, but the resolution was singular. ah, it goes to who you believe Einstien or Bell...spooky action at a distance or local hidden variables..
I love this show. -
It's indeed peepshots of people in toilets.
The second poster is a flyer of the ongoing election here. -
Mar 01, 2008 8:22:18 AM CST
Once More - The time travel theory at work I explained 2 season
by genro
Here...the person Faraday is based upon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Barbour
We are not witnessing "flashbacks" or "flash-forwards" but slipping consciousness - for all of them. Only those who have had exposure to heavy radiation have become aware of it. Jack, et al.. can have conscious slips without others being aware of it, (falling, staring off...), because of the time anomaly of the island. This is how the Oceanic 6 will end up back on the plane to bring things full circle. They are the constants that tie everyone together.
As for Farraday, he exposes himself to his experiment after Desmond leaves and has been continually shifting through time since then. What's his constant? His book, that continually re-writes itself to fill in gaps of his past after events occur.
Farraday's book will turn out to be the Black Rock book bought at auction by Penelope's father, which is the basis for his sailing contest.
The book's pirate backstory plus the cargo vessel Desmond and Sayid land on are allusions to Kong '76.
The spy in the boat will be the Greek guy that doesn't age who befriended Ben as a child and brought Juliet to the Island. He is going to turn out to be some kind of archangel opposite Abbadon.
The Black Box is a metaphorical Macguffin for Pandora's Box. Ben probably conjured the Box as a way to explain what he can do. It should tie-in to the Black Box on 815 since, IIRC, they haven't ever shown it. -
No offense, but seriously. It's not hard math at work. It's research by writers. They are reading magazine articles and books to see what can logically explain the resolved ending.
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Is Bens man on the boat Frank? Or is that to easy? He told Sayid that he was "trying to help". We know he was supposed to be the 815 pilot. Plus, we also know that Sayid is going to work for Ben.
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that's a pretty cool theory in character flashbacks they aren't aware that they have slipped through time like Desmond was. Both times Desmond's conscious jumps into a different time period, he is disorientated an aware of the jump. The flash backs and flash forwards don't give any indication they are disorientated or feel out of place (time?).
It's a cool theory tho because alot flashbacks have other survivors unknowingly in the background which one could argue serve as constants for the central 'flashbacker' -
meant to say 'that's a pretty cool theory BUT...'
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Does anybody know when or if this will ever be released?
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Pay these small men no mind - good work!
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If you want to watch an incredibly interesting vid (it's in English, no fear) on what TIME is or is not
http://tinyurl.com/2xsx45
Its 24 minutes. Click on Norderlicht - Killing Time (2nd option is the vid) -
I don't know if anyone else has caught this yet:
http://i29.tinypic.com/28u4c5x.jpg
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http://i26.tinypic.com/2dq6pj.jpg
"Lift up your eyes and look north, John 3:05"
God I wish he was still on the show. -
Sorry, just trying to wake up Tom Bodet.
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With all the $$ you make off motel 6 - wouldn't you have whores 24/7 to keep you awake? Just askin.
In case you ever get a clue, we'll leave the light on for ya, buddy. -
Maybe no one else noticed or thinks its important and I haven't read all of the posts, but didn't it seem like while it was Desmond's 1996 mind that flashed into his 2004 body, it was Minkowski's 2004 mind that flashed somewhere else. He knew that he was the ship's communications officer and he knew that Penny had been trying to call the ship. Desmond had no ides why he was on a helicopter or who Sayid was. Minkowski may have been told why he was on the ship and who everyone was, but it didn't seem that way.
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OK. Jack says that the chopper has been gone for a day. Sayid said it only took them about 20 minutes to get to the frieghter. So, wouldn't that mean the outside world thinks 815 crashed about a day ago, not a couple months as the survivors are experiencing on the island? The reason I bring this up is that on the frieghter, Sayid commented that he had thought it was almost Christmas after seeing it was Christmas Eve on the calender. Well, if only a day passed in the outside world (and, presumably, the frieghter) and months passed on the island, if Sayid thought it was almost Christmas it would only be Octoberish in the "real world". Maybe I'm just confused (possible)or a moron (probable), but maybe the calender on the frieghter is a fake by the crew so Sayid and Des don't realize only a day has passed in the "real world".
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Your theory doesnt make sense because Desmond calls Penelope in the real world on the day he tells her he would in the past. So it def is Dec 24th, christmas even in the real world
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Wasn't G4 supposed to get the Lost replays and also have some sort of post-show like they did with Heroes? Did that get scrapped in favor of ABC's dumbed down pop-up replay, or did something else happen?
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http://www.timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.htm
And no I didn't write this. -
Desmond & The Hulkster rule, BROTHER!!!
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Think about it. In the 1980 film, what is it that sends Chris Reeve back into the future after he sent his consciousness back to 1912? It was a PENNY he found in his pocket, a penny from 1979, a PENNY which EXISTED in BOTH TIME PERIODS. The PENNY was Reeve's constant, just as Penelope is Hume's constant.
Wow, my brain just exploded. -
Time on the island and time in the outside world are roughly the same...The anomoly somehow pops up only during the traverse to and from the island. We've seen several examples of people on the island communicating in real time with people off the island. Its something about the commute between the two.
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Also, Desmond's nose was only bleeding in 2004, not in 1996 and Minkowski's nose was also bleeding in 2004 even though 2004 seemed to be where he flashed from. Of course, now that I thimk about it, Daniel pulled a future Eloise's mind into her present body. So, did Minkowski's mind from the future flash back into 2004?
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over Fish from Barney Miller anyday! Because eating Abe Vigoda would take a long time.
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notice how he seems to pop up at crucial times during the Desmond episodes. Des things Penny is his constant, but I bet it's really widemore since he purchases the journal.
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http://tiny.cc/WRiXE -
Sorry, trying further to wake up Tom.
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Jack - Christian
Kate - The Horse or her toy plane
Sawyer - Boone (Boone was in the police station with Sawyer)
Locke - Walt
Hurley - Charlie
Claire - Aaron
Jin - Sun's father.
Sun -
Juliet - Her sister
Ben -
Sayid - Nadia
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that Penny is des's Constant, all a constant is, is someone you knew in past and in future, its a link, nothing more then that. Team Jack!
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Then the classic Jacket, and...Sawkat?
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Mar 01, 2008 3:54:52 PM CST
I didn't read ALL of the coments, but someone else but me though
by the chosen
This episode is plain QUANTUM LEAP, anyone agree?
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because the 'constant' was a Deux Ex Machina and was the only week part of a intriguing idea. Someone being unstuck in time is a great based on theoretical science. The idea that your consiousness jumping back and forth, and your inevitable death as a result, can be stopped by what...picking someone you meet in both timelines and...thinking about them? talking to them? what? would just *poof* stop the phenomena from happening is ridiculous and almost undermines the entire concept. Daniel says Desmond is his 'constant'....well...what if Daniel finds himself jumping back and forth between 2 timelines where Desmond isn't around? Death? Because obviously just thinking about your constant in both timelines doesn't help, you for some reason have to actually talk to them. This was a great episode with great ideas, but the simple truth of the matter is the writers had a great problem but there was no plausible resolution of it in the context of the episode, so they used a Deux Ex Machina, the 'constant' to solve the problem of how Desmond and Daniel stop him from jumping through time. It's not significant, interesting, or worth further exploration. Because each time it's used, it undermines everything that anchors an already implausible show to reality - the notion that there is science we don't understand behind what is happening. The 'constant' is magic, and has no place here.
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if I understand your number crunching correctly, you're making a lot of false assumptions....
for a start, the missile fired INTO the island took LONGER subjectively (ie from it's OWN perspective) by 31mins - it's not a matter of a 31min ride that has been decreased to 20secs by a wormhole, it's a ride that took 20secs according to the boat, just under 3hrs according to the island, and just OVER 3hrs according to the missile...
the helicopter travelling OUT from the island - subjectively took 20mins, but from the perspective of the boat took a half a day - and took EVEN LONGER from the perspective of the island (remember Jack states it has already been a WHOLE DAY since the helicopter took off) - so...
C- maybe a C at best for oversimplifying - wanna have another shot? -
guys you obviously missed something very important from this episode - it's not ENOUGH to just have a constant, you gotta have the mental chops for your brain to be able to deal with what is going on, "constant" or no...
Eloise, presumably like all the other rats before her, DIED - this is not because she didn't have a constant - SHE DID! Faraday was there THE WHOLE TIME - CONSTANTLY, if you will - but she died anyway because her tiny little rat brain wasn't up to the task...
While I wouldn't go as far as saying the "constant" idea is a Deux Ex Machina, I will say it's a bit of a cheat - actually, I've already said that earlier haven't I? -
Agreed. Tho she is 18 and being deflowered by Milo as we speak. had a girlfriend in her early 30s who loved dressup. Cheerleader with pigtails. Very naughty. Goth Claire is just to much, tho.
Charlie + Claire = Chair?
Claire + Kate (Mmmmm) = Clate?
Jack + Penny = Jackelope
Hugo + Libby = Hubby
Kate Hurley = Kurley? -
No offense taken..it doesn't require 'trying hard' and 'It's not hard math at work'...for most. Calc'ing Distance, Rate, and Time is simple grade school solve for X Algebra. Once more, sigh, if the observers at point A (the island) and the observers at point B (the ship) are experiencing time at the same relative rate, which they are in this case as the same half day and change passed from helo departure to helo arrival, and the calender is synchronized on the ship and island to 24 Dec 2004, and you factor that the helo occupants experienced only 20 minutes of relative time passing on the journey. You are only left with a couple of options...and those options are a function of Time=Distance/Rate..The helo crew either traveled farther or traveled slower than realistically relative to the ship and Island. verstehen Sie?
So leaving out the 'hard' stuff, from your perspective, ..exotic stuff ..instantaneous transmission, sticky time, Nimtz and Stahlhofen's work on quantum tunneling, blah, blah, blah..zzzzzz(tom bodet). Well, wagering the writers don't want to go down the road of physical FTL travel and/ or the speed of light being violable, that leaves the option of distance being the variable in the equation which makes the question one of topology. So there you go..
the whole island is one giant electromagnet (remember the holmium easter egg in Ep 4.1), of immense and incomparable G (gauss), a field so strong, that it warps space-time, bends waves and particles, screws with synaptic transmission and neural polarity, and creates tears and tunnels and junction points in higher dimensional polytopes and all manner of strange physical phenomena in the real world. The characters had/have/will have to transverse those tears/tunnels/junction points of higher dimensions in the topology of minkowski space-time to egress/ingress the island. And, as the theory goes different tears/tunnels/junction points in higher dimensions will be transportive to different spatial, and possibly, temporal coordinates. But, just like Carl Sagan opined just about a billion seconds ago, the universal speed limit, the universal constant(dig it) is one foot per nanosecond..so they are still traveling subluminally..and because of that, the helo crew had to travel FARTHER than they or the Losties thought. você compreende? The helo crew followed the rabbit wearing the waistcoat carrying a watch through the hole and popped out a thousand mile from nowhere. Ah, it is all in good fun..just a fun little thought experiment, just a theory, but I like mine better than yours.. Farraday's journal being the Black Rock ledger(jabberwocky) or Alpert (richard) being Ben's man on the boat..shah...just sayin.
And, seriously, no offense, but typing ..this is just "..research by writers. They are reading magazine articles and books to see what can logically explain the resolved ending" is dismissively simplistic and is kind of pretentious..don't think you know the writers, don't think you are one of the writers..so typing thus above is prizing a lot of creative folk (in this case Darlton who penned the ep) very lightly.. to pose such that they are not building their myth outline on an original (as anything can be) rather than derivative foundation of knowledgeable, learned fact.
Not all writers avoided the hard science classes..hell some are even engineers, with some such fancy diplomas and lots of consonant and constipated letters after their name, from really expensive and pretentious university type places. know what I'm sayin. be well. -
My ab fav. Juliet + Jack = Jacket damn clever too.
CHolera - Kate+sawyer lovers = Skaters -
...as to why Desmond was his past self, so to speak, in 2004, but Minkowski seemed like he was still his present self in 2004. Was it because of what the doctor injected him with?
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Has claimed to have built an actual time machine. Impressive academic credentials - not just a hack. Some interesting reads on his website
http://www.time-travel.com/ -
...did Minkowski's conciousness travel to the future, like Eloise?
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Each consciousness "passed in the night" so to speak. The reason Des was so disoriented on the freighter was because his Army/1996 consciousness moved up and into his freighter/2004 body. His Freighter/2004 consciousness moved into his Army/1996 body. That's why soldier Des ran to the phone, called Pen, dreamt of a helicopter, etc... He had 8 years of life experiences he was trying to come to terms with while standing there in 1996. But boy, freighter Des was standing there in 2004 with 8 years of MISSING TIME - that would confuse anyone. There was a lag as consciousnesses swapped with each other, it wasn't instantaneous. That's why you see Minkowski, Des, Eloise all "blink out" for awhile.
One more thing. As 1996 Des AND 1996 Danny began to change things in the past, put some history in place, so to speak...instantly, their consciousnesses are perceiving it in 2004 (watch them, they don't blink out, but kinda stare into space with goofy looks on their faces)...history is unfolding back then and that history is falling into place for them in 2004 in their brains. Like pieces in a puzzle, THAT year (1996) is falling into place, though they still have no history to draw on from 1997-2004 when their consciousnesses are swapped out. But whatever they are getting, as their 1996 selves make things happen, it is like they are watching that part of their life unfold.
I can't figure out any other, more clear ways of describing my theory. Does this make sense?
Ah - I think that's why Danny keeps going back to check his notebook. He is perceiving his 1996 self making changes with Des back then and knows things will ultimately alter slightly in his "now". He checks his notebook, and, "I'll be damned, more notes...including, "Desmond Hume is my constant". -
...i think you're trying too hard. Des became unstuck in time, so his consciousness from various points in his life gained the capacity to slip to other points in his life. In "Flashes Before Your Eyes", his consciousness from now when back to then. In "The Constant", his consciousness went from then to now. Because his consciousness can only be in one place at a time, when he went one place, he wasn't in another, hence, he and Minkowski going all passy-outy.
It has been established that Daniel has memory problems, which is why he writes himself notes that he 'newly' discovers at opportune times (telling Desmond to go find himself in Oxford probably prompted him to look in his notebook to see if he'd written himself a message. -
That still doesn't quite explain Minkowski and I don't think 2004 Desmond jumped into 1996 Desmond's body. In 1996 he becomes catatonic while his mind moves to 2004; he collapses in the stairwell, the bathroom and Daniel's lab, but in 2004, he just instantanously snaps between the two.
As for Minkowski, both his nose and Desmond's nose are bleeding in 2004, but Desmond's is not in 1996, so it stands to reason that wherever Minkowski's conciousness is going, his nose isn't bleeding there either. The difference is, that because Desmond's conciousness is traveling from 1996 to 2004, he doesn't recognize anything in 2004, but Minkowski does, so it must not be a past conciousness of his that is being pulled into 2004, unless whatever the doctor is injecting him with allows him to remember temporarily.
So, either Minkowski is jumping to the future, like Eloise, or the doctor's injections act as a sort of temporary "constant", if you will. -
Kate plus locke= Klock
Kate Plus Jin = Kin
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And good to see you serving as Node's constant! That warmed my heart. Glad you're keeping up with the episodes over there and school hasn't worn you down!
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Having a 'constant' keep you from going insane or having an aneurysm or something makes perfect sense, but having the entire phenomema stop happening the moment you talk to your constant in the 2nd timeline doesn't make sense, and that part is the Deus Ex Machina. Not that it stopped him from dying, but that it returned both consciousnesses to their proper timelines and stopped them from shifting.
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Rewatched it too many times. Answers will come in future eps. Gotta stop trying to figure it all out tonight.
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You know, when you're time-shifting consciousnesses, it's just not realistic to have a constant that saves you from blowing your mind. That's just nonsense! Oh wait, it's all fiction anyway! I forgot! C'mon, you can accept the consciousness travel-shifting, but not the constant idea? Is this pick and choose time?
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It's never been established. For all we know, he's someone who crashed on the island. Maybe he was on Danielle's freighter?
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Ben gets off the island.
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Just thinking out loud on Desmond, time travel, and paradoxes:
First, someone asked earlier why Ms. Hawking would have told Desmond that he can't get married or "all of us will die." I think the producers themselves offered one possible reason: Ms. Hawking would have told him Desmond her consciousness was from the future. Or, alternately, she would have told him if someone, not her, but someone who could "time travel" had instructed her to tell him (possibly Charles Widmore, Ben, or, although unlikely, even Daniel). Is this crazy? I don't think so. Remember, when Desmond encounters Ms. Hawking he does so as the "2004-consciousness Desmond," who has returned to 1996 after turning the key and being exposed to the Island's power. He has a vague memory of the previous (or rather, future) timeline and he is able to make small changes to it (although nothing that changes destiny). Now if (through the effects of his "2004-consciousness") the 1996 Desmond were to marry Penny, then he wouldn't sail the race. If he doesn't sail the race, he won't wash up on the island. If he doesn't wash up on the island, he won't be there to turn the key when the clock ticked down. Ms. Hawking lays this all out. And if Desmond doesn't turn the key, then a gravitational field like that of a black hole or wormhole would unravel the world's laws of quantum physics (to paraphrase another Hawking), which would indeed destroy the world and, as Ms. Hawking says, "all of us will die."
Now I understand you can't change the future. So what does imply? Well, if (and this is a big "if") Ms. Hawking was somehow informed about the future and IF, in the future, THE WORLD WAS MEANT TO BE DESTROYED, then her warning to Desmond COULD NOT HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL. It could not have changed Desmond's decision since that would imply that Ms. Hawking successfully tampered with the destined timeline. If, on the other hand, (and this would not necessarily be a paradox), Ms. Hawking was informed of the future and IF, in the future, THE WORLD WAS NOT MEANT TO BE DESTROYED, then her warning to Desmond COULD HAVE BEN SUCCESSFUL; moreover, it would have done nothing but restore the destined timeline (which had been threatened with alteration by "2004-consciousness" Desmond making decisions "as" 1996 Desmond. In this instance, Ms. Hawking would have simply "course corrected," as she refers to it. This seems to support the theory that Ms. Hawking is from the future. Her mission: To prevent "2004-consicousness" Desmond from altering the proper timeline.
To me, however, this is where another paradox occurs. If time (or destiny) can't be changed, why would have Ms. Hawking been worried in the first place? That is, if time can't be changed in its outcome (but only corrected so as to arrive at its proper appointment, so to speak), then HOW COULD "2004-CONSCIOUSNESS DESMOND" have ever altered his fate, anyway? Or again: If time can't be changed, then there should have been no need for "from the future" Ms. Hawking to intercede, right? Desmond knew that Charlie was going to die, but he could do nothing to prevent it from ultimately happening--for instance. Why should this situation be any different? I guess the (somewhat) simple answer is that time and destiny CAN change if the Island zaps you back to the past. When Desmond is thrown back to 1996 and encounters Ms. Hawking, he was in a position (because he was there as an anomaly created by explosion of the Island's gravitational field--or whatever) such that he could potentially alter the course of the timeline. This isn't supposed to happen.
Now in this scenario, wat Daniel says about altering time would not be wrong, but it would not be right, either. He would not be wrong INSOFAR as the rational laws of time and space apply. He would not be right INSOFAR as wacky Island black hole/worm hole laws outside the limits concerning human understanding do apply. And, no, I don't use that last phrase accidentally. (In fact, if I don't go out later and drink I may just post some interesting resonances with the philosopher and time-traveling-consciousness-Desmond--or just read wiki, which is a nice populist source, I guess. Check it out, you'll see the implications yourselves.)
I'll throw out some speculation on what all these (basically) logical deductions might imply, as far as I can imagine, later on. -
I wouldn't go that far. There's a lot of science fiction going on, but there's also some horror and fantasy. If the "magic" were taken completely out of the show, it would be far less interesting. Making it a hard science fiction show is a bad idea and I really hope they don't have a science-based explanation for everything. I'll bet the hardline science guys hereabouts hate Miles' ghost-hunting. The show does a good job of balancing the genres. I'd like to see it stay that way.
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Oh, and I forgot. One question to MacFaux: If the boat were actually 1400 to 2100 miles away, and if Frank said, "We burned up most of the damned fuel flying around that storm. We barely got enough to get back to the freighter, we're not carrying any unnecessary weight," then how the copter be able to fly 35 to 52.5 times farther than Frank had calculated? Was Frank really, really wrong? Does the helicopter have the largest gas tank of all time. I don't mean to sound sarcastic (although that last bit was sarcastic, I admit). No disrespect, though, since I found your reasoning cool. But still? The math may be right, but if there was a type of gas that would let you fly 1400 to 2100 miles in a helicopter without refueling, we'd probably be fighting at least a couple more wars right now (real time).
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listen to the lost podcast , Damon and Carton both say and stress that at the end of the day the answer to the questions has to be understandable for a mainstream audience and is not as complex as these theorize.
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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.">br>
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
Also, just watched the clips for next week's episode. Not AS spoilery as last week's previews. The weird thing is, considering how long these have been "in the can" the clips felt "unsweetened", or rather kind of unfinished feeling. Perhaps they are still toying with these up to the last minute. There was one particular little sound effect in one case that was missing. Anyway, great clips if you can grab them. 3 in all. The 2 excerpts and the main network trailer. -
Heh. Let's go ahead and keep them in the dark, then. I think my mom's head was about to explode last week.
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...everyone is getting such a hard-on for this ep. It was good, but it's was essentially just a shorter and less exciting copy of STTNG "All Good Things..."...as some have made reference to.
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Using 3.4 GigHz, I transmitted a closed-looped Beta wave to transmit a graviton pulse 108 hours into the future, causing a slight tug at a loose thread in the button holding up Emily DeRavin's jeans. Her pants should drop exposing a little black lace thong. My consciousness then saw her, with her pants around her ankles, bend over and look back over her shoulder at me with a little crooked grin. All this made possible from my little notebook written by my future self. Not so critical now, are ya?
;D
Here - transmitting image via my altered consciousness to your future self. Should get it about...now. Whaddya think? -
Now that you're here as well, I'll transmit that same image yesterday so you have all today to think about it. Mmmmm...Emily....
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MORE!
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..without being there. But that's cool. My last 3 girlfriends were in my head anyway. So nothing new there.
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Jack!
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they still argued with you and you were still always wrong.
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Because so far this time around, Sayid and Desmond are far more interesting. Or maybe even "team new guys". It's far too easy to limit ourselves.
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I'm working on Elizabeth Mitchell's blouse.
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EXACTLY! And they still sulked afterward, even when I capitulated. And sometimes, out of the blue, they'd be mad and not explain why until hours later, each time the reason turning out to be something they only THOUGHT I meant days ago. Wild stuff. You have that mind reading machine, too, buddy?
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he's hunting blouse.
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Now blood is squirting out of nose Monty Python/Black Knight style.
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is actually protecting Elizabeth Mitchell's cans. It sure ain't protecting Kate's pants!
Zing! -
Yes on both. I think in some form Locke must accomplish something significant. There's an old basic writing rule I read once that said "don't write about wimps". Now, not wimps that are redeemable, those are great. But ones that are not are not just tragic, they're pointless and ultimately boring as hell. It would be formulaic for them to make Locke a tragic success, sacrificing him in some great heroic ending. And Lost is anything but formulaic. I'm still rooting for Locke. But I'm expecting a quiet, small triumph for him. Nothing huge, just a personal, private heroism. I know that some expect him to die a fiery death while saving everyone at the last moment, I hope that never happens. Locke may be weak sometimes, but his character is deserving of happiness. He's been pretty screwed over. But what is his ultimate sin, in the end? Trusting people? It's fascinating to see him sort of initiate a backlash to all that trust in other human beings. Instead, now he's trusting the "island" instead. The question is, will the island screw him over and misunderstand him like the human beings he's interacted with over the years?
And although I sometimes just can't stand looking at her (she has some similar traits and physical features of an ex of mine), Juliet is a very interesting character. Next week will be good, guaranteed. -
Too easy. Just pretend you don't care if they fall off or not and they drop as predictably as the New Year's ball.
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In which Picard lives a whole other life in his mind for 45 minutes. Or the Benny Russel episode of DS9.
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When Desmond turned the key and started jumping back and forth through time, why did he stop? Was Charlie his constant?
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But in execution, it surpassed all of those Trek episodes, etc. Let's face it, time travel stories with emotional relationships as a backbone do pre-date Trek by a few years. Those Trek episodes people are mentioning are really good, don't get me wrong. But Lost executed it with skill, originality and depth.
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We can't say for sure that he did stop, much like we cannot be certain Locke isn't throwing trays of food against walls when we're not around. But as far as Charlie being his constant, it does sort of make sense. He did have his contact with Charlie in the past when he was playing in the street.
On a somewhat related note, it was nice that the mention of Charlie on the boat did sort of make Desmond's eyes light up a bit. It was that moment that you could see he was regaining his knowledge of the here and now. That and with Sayid's short reaction shot when Desmond mentioned something about his recent past on the island. That was a nice touch.
But the question still remains, for me at least, of whether or not Desmond really did stop moving back and forth, completely, after Charlie's death. -
You can also see it in a Season 2 episode where Jack is in the shower in the hatch and gets out, to find Locke at the sink shaving. Locke makes up an excuse about how the steam helps him shave. And THEN he looks at Jack's package. Plus Locke had major father issues as we know, which is why a lot of guys turn out gay. But I'm fine with it so long as they'll do it subtle and not make it a huge issue.
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It seems as though Desmond must have stopped jumping. He hasn't been going crazy and he hasn't had an aneurysm.
Any thoughts on Minkowski? Was his future mind jumping into his present body or did the doctor's injections create a sort of temporary constant for him and his past mind was jumping into his present body, like Desmond? -
That's what's interesting about Desmond's time "travel" around the time of Charlie's inevitable death. He didn't seem to suffer from a lot of side-effects. It seemed to be happening for a while, too. I think it must take quite some time for those effects to manifest. As for Minkowski, I think they were injecting him with good old fashioned tranquilizers or sedatives. I think the doctor on the boat is relatively clueless. So why did the effects have such a negative impact on Minkowski within a relatively short period of time and Desmond was able to run around the island for days with no nosebleeds? (or did he have them?) I think it has something to do with the "storm" and leaving the island. Reading VALIS, I did find one fascinating clue as to the possible nature of time on the island. Dick references Parsifal by Wagner (yes, that Wagner).
There is no route out of the maze. The maze shifts as you move through it, because it is alive.
PARSIFAL: I move a little, yet already I seem to have gone far.
GURNEMANZ: You see, my son, here time turns into space.
It's repeated over and over, this notion, "here, time turns into space" and is juxtaposed with the main character's observation that first century Rome was literally being superimposed over modern Los Angeles. And the phrase "the empire never ended"
Do I have a point? Well, sort of and sort of not. When an individual is exposed to high levels of certain radiation (similar in some way to the "pink laser" radiation?), they interact with time and space in different ways than the rest of us. If the island itself is somehow revealing time as space and or vice versa, it would make sense that an individual who is in some way in tune with this in a way others are not, there could be "side effects" from leaving the island or safe haven.
Also, there is mention in VALIS of the "Logos", or "information based life forms". This is not just mentioned in VALIS, but also years later in Terence McKenna's work
McKenna Bibliography:
http://tinyurl.com/2az2ta
The Archaic Revival when talking about the effects of DMT during which one experiences predictable encounters with what he calls "pure information (or rather language)based life forms". Could this actually be what the "smoke monster" is? A LOGOS?
I'm gonna stop now before I start losing brain cells, and leave everyone with this...
READ VALIS! Absolutely stunning work so far. -
I was typing fast and worded a few things wrong. That and balancing a book on my lap that kept wanting to be on the floor with the bookmark flying in exactly the wrong place. The wrong place being NOT in the book anymore to be exact. And the relevant fact that I am under the influence of a single, large malt liquor. (I'm a lightweight)
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So, if you think that the doctor is only giving Minkowski a sedative, does that mean that his 2004 mind is jumping into the future. If so, doesn't his dying change the future?
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Now this may explain some of the dead people showing up. Let's think for a moment about the "course correction" rule. If someone has some integral thing to DO in the future, and the island somehow (through it's side effects) causes the death of that person, does reality "course correct" in that case as well, somehow? Perhaps Jack's father had some important things to do that he could not do while dead (say.. prompting a dog to wake up Jack) and the "universe" course-corrected him back into existence to get that single task done. Maybe Walt is dead, or somewhere else and he pops into reality on the island to make sure certain things happen because they MUST happen. Say, things like making sure Sayid doesn't save a certain female from dying.. or making sure Locke gets up out of a ditch because he has "work to do". Maybe this work the "apparitions" is course correction, pure and simple. Maybe even Charlie appearing to Hurley. In each of these cases, there is always something these dead characters are prompting the living people to do. Tasks.. work. Correction.
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and I don't think ppl realise it's not some magical talking to Penny or thinking about Penny or whatever that stops the phenomenon from happening - it's a SHIFT from 1996-Des who's been inhabiting 2004-Des' body while 2004-Des' mind has been adrift (I'll come back to that) to 2004-Des - both mind and body now incorporating the NEW reality between 1996 and NOW.
Take a look at Des from Sayid's perspective. He starts off fine and suddenly he's freaking out and he doesn't know where he is, who the people he's with are. Then he blanks - mid-sentence, mid-step, whatever - catatonic. Then he's the same guy who doesn't recognise anyone. Then he blanks. Ok, now stay with me. Sayid asks him what phone number are you going to ring (1996-Des-though-I-don't-know-that) and Des tells him he doesn't know.
Then he blanks.
Then he's that same Des-who-thinks-it's-1996 only THIS TIME he DOES know the phone number and rattles it off.
Right there.
The future was changed - did you miss it?
THEN - here's the crucial part - he starts talking to Penny on the number he didn't know maybe five minutes ago, and he says he was on an island - there's even a shot of Sayid looking up inserted right there - because that is the moment that 2004-Des is back.
He makes the consciousness switch to 2004 but he now knows exactly where he is and what happened these last eight years - and more importantly WHY! This is why Penny made such a great "constant" - the last time he got unstuck-in-time that was about Penny too - Penny makes such a good REASON for his mind to be experiencing what it is going through he is able to hang onto his own ability to reason this way. So while it didn't necessarily take a phone call to her per se to stop it from happening, that was a nice little seed he could plant in 1996 to allow his mind to wrap itself around what was happening in both times and once it got a grip on it - stop it...
I doubt he will stop doing it again but he may well be able to develop some level of control - and it makes we wonder how many other characters do it and can control it?
Here's one, while we're getting all mathematical - 1996-Des flashes to 2004 for about 5 mins but in 1996 it takes 75 mins. Sounds like the helicopter and the rocket-clock all over again right? But when he flashes BACK to 1996 he stays for hours it seems - long enough to get to Oxford and catch up with both Charles and Penny Widmore - while in 2004 he's been out maybe a matter of minutes at best...
Problem is all these times, and the different way it seems to work on different people (assuming that was 2004-Minkowski) - it's all, as Faraday puts it, "just variables" which by definition are constantly changing (constant change - love me a good oxymoron) but there is at least one pattern I can see -
It works differently backwards than forwards. Going IN to the islands produces a different shift to going OUT - the rocket-clock GAINED a half an hour but the helicopter LOST a day and a half.
Think about light refracted by, say, a glass of water. The light hits the water - which is more dense than air - and bends IN, like it's been slowed down (it hasn't - it's speed is CONSTANT) and then when it gets to the other side and hits the less-dense air again, it bends OUT, like it has sped up (again, it hasn't really). Point is it bends at a single point - the threshold between the two spaces of different density.
Think about the islands space where time "runs differently" and the rest of the universe around that space - something that crossed the threshold from one to the other would refract, right? And the WAY it refracted would depend on the direction - just like light and density - right??
OK just in case your head is still there (mine's already exploded) think about relativity for a moment. The Earth rotates and moves along and orbit of a sun at the arse-end of a galaxy that's got it's own cosmic path that it's moving along and so on - so maybe at one particular TIME the RIGHT heading to stay on to make it through the threshold can be 325 while at a different TIME it might be 305 because the planet itself has moved, as has the island on it!
think about it... -
I agree with your post, except that Desmond doesn't blank out in 2004. He's on the helicopter and suddenly he doesn't know where he is; he reaches for the change in 1996 and suddenly he's reaching for it in 2004; on the phone, he tells Penny to trust him and in 2004 Sayid answers him with, "I do trust you", not, "You're back."
Other than that very small thing, everything sounds good. -
"We burned up most of the damned fuel flying around that storm. We barely got enough to get back to the freighter, we're not carrying any unnecessary weight,"
*sidebar - anyone notice that the frieghter is now 40 miles closer than it was in ep 4.3. The pop ups said the freighter was 80 miles offshore in ep 4.3. Which, if it still were, would require a 40 min flight to reach the ship at the UH-1's max cruise; 125 mph..interesting.
So, 20 mins to cover 40 miles is what it should have taken; so snarks Juliet to Charlotte. Twenty minutes is what it seemed to take; so challenges Sayid to Frank. 20 mins, that is what Frank, Sayid and Des..well not Desmond..experienced. To those on the island and the ship it was 1/2 a day and change The Helo did not 'fly' 1400-2100 miles. The Helo was transported a farther distance...by an event, by an anomaly; wormhole seems to be the popular speculation. And that took a 1/2 day and change according to the island and Sayid's reckoning on the Ship. It is that or the helo flew in to some kind of temporal vortex, sticky time, fluid 'density' (maniaq says) or clock bubble that kept the helo crew's perception to twenty minutes, while holding them in limbo relative to the stationary observers on the ship and island who experienced a day and change going by. it is all just brain yoga, comrade. -
Sigh...This is gonna be geek overload and give you serious tired head..but, I have been a pubbing..and..before I do that, Desmond didn't change the future by remembering the number. His past present had not occured yet for '96 Desmondo's conscious memory in '04 Desmondo's body, '96 Desmond simply had not reached the specific point in time where/when he obtains Penny's number..it's neural locality of reference, specifically, temporal locality; a resource that is referenced at one point in time is referenced again soon afterwards...well, that is just a truly bizarre thing to type. I love this show...anyway..
"maths"??Come on!
"if I understand your number crunching correctly"..Don't think you do.
"you're making a lot of false assumptions"..Don't think I am.
"the missile fired INTO the island took LONGER subjectively (ie from it's OWN perspective) by 31mins - it's not a matter of a 31min ride that has been decreased to 20secs by a wormhole, it's a ride that took 20secs according to the boat, just under 3hrs according to the island, and just OVER 3hrs according to the missile"
-No..(ep 4.3)The rocket took longer to arrive from all perspectives. Ship(Launch) Rocket(Flight) and Island(Impact). The rocket did not take three hours to travel the distance, real or perceived. Faraday started his experiment well after Juliet left to get Desmond, Juliet saying it would take a couple of hours to get to the beach and back. The rocket arrives maybe 2 minutes before Juliet and Desmond get there. So though we don't know the actual time it took to transit the distance from the ship TO the island it was not three hours on the island. Also, Faraday was using synchronized clocks, as in set to the same time before Faraday left for the island (says this on the pop up epy recap of 4.3)they are not chronometers counting up from 00:00:00 to 02:45:03 and 03:16:21.
What you saw was two differing times. Faraday's clocks (clocks not chronometers) read: 02:45:03 Island time/ 03:16:21 Rocket/Ship time, a difference of +31 minutes 18 seconds. However, the ship is not 31 minutes and 18 secs ahead of Faraday on the island (of course, the first question Faraday should have asked..was, "Hey Regina, what time you got there on the ship?" before or after the launch..but he didn't) So, we only know that the rocket gained +00:31:18 on the synchro'd clocks Faraday had. How? That is a physics question...Why? That is a meta-physics question and who knows or cares..but How? well that's math. It should have taken 27 seconds for the Rocket to cover the distance from the Ship to the Island according to Regina's read-off. An event occurred between the ship (launch) and the island(impact) causing either the rocket to accelerate in time, the island to de-accelerate in time, or the rocket to travel farther than expected and chronicle the time it took to cover that distance.
The pop up episode of 4.3 (which we must consider canon) declares that the ship is 80 nautical miles/92.06232 statute miles from the island. The flight time from Regina saying "payload away" (launch) to Regina saying "Zero" (impact) is exactly 27 seconds. Also, note according to Regina's telemetry read-off of the rocket in real time, it seems to be traveling at a constant rate of about 5 km per sec / 3.2 miles per sec, and importantly "to the beacon" that she 'thinks' is a position fix on Faraday. So what is the expected solution? Solving for Rocket speed (Rate) = 80 nmi(Distance) / 27 seconds(Time) = 2.96 nmi per sec (which tracks close to Regina's telemetry broadcast) 2.96 nmi per sec or 177 nmi per min or 10,666 nmi per hour (not knowing temperature, altitude and atmospheric composition..that's still somewhere in the neighborhood of MACH 15)..hypersonic..and note that was not a free-fall parabolic trajectory mission as the Rocket was still burning on arrival (effects error?) it is still pretty fast for a sounding rocket by about thrice over...too fast, specifically, for the non-staged Rocket shown. oh, well..I think they were aiming for a transit point and missed.
"the helicopter travelling OUT from the island - subjectively took 20mins, but from the perspective of the boat took a half a day - and took EVEN LONGER from the perspective of the island (remember Jack states it has already been a WHOLE DAY since the helicopter took off) - so..."
First, my dear comrade, the island and the outside world are calendar synchronized. 24 Dec 2004. Departure time and Arrival time are, chronologically, also the same at Point A (the island) and Point B (the ship) or the ship and the island would not be able to communicate unless they had buck rogers, future style, quantum tunneling, supra-luminal phones. Can't place a call to anyone from yesterday or tomorrow. So 1/2 day, day and half..but constant (Sayid - "took off at dusk and landed in the middle of the day")..again, why doesn't somebody on the island ask somebody on the boat what time it is? would solve a lot...but further figure this:
*The chopper departs before sunset at the end of episode (ep 4.3)
*Jack, Juliet, Faraday, and Lewis journey back to the beach and announce to the camp the chopper has taken Sayid and Desmond to the ship. Jack must say this the same evening as the chopper leaving. (ep 4.4) - Must because we know, according to Juliet when she went to fetch Desmondo, the trip from the helo to the beach and back was a trip that only took a couple of hours...so, say an hour and some to the beach one way, according to Tommy Lee Jones average foot speed for an uninjured man over uneven terrain is 3 mph, threeee m-ah-les per ah-our (holding up three fingers) so that is about how far away from the beach they are and Jack, Juliet, Faraday and Lewis do reach the camp in daylight..I can't feature them makin camp and singin songs out in the jungle when the Losties and Food are that close...it had to be the same evening..
*And I know Sun says "you said they left yesterday" (ep 4.4) later, after Jack's announcement when they arrived, but it she says this in daylight before the nighttime scene with Charlotte and Regina in the same epy..So, I think that had to be a continuity error at best or an intentional attempt at deception or confoundment by LOST PTB at worst..cause otherwise when Charlotte did make that emergency call to the boat when it WAS dark and says "they left last night"(ep 4.4) coupled with Sun saying the above in Daylight, it would have had to have been the 2ND night before the 2ND dawn after the Helo departed. you follow?
*..so when Saucy Jack says the next morning, with some consternation, "alright, they took off a day ago, why haven't we heard from them?", and Charlotte responds, "As I have been telling you all night long.." (ep 4.5) ..it points to the time elapsed as 12-18 hours, on the island, otherwise, wouldn't Jack have said they took off two days ago? If you believe the accuracy of Sun's statement and that time line, again, Jack's statement would have occurred on the 2ND day of their arrival back in camp. And BTW, colloquially, yesterday is anytime before midnight of the current day, not necessarily 24 hours..
*The chopper arrives at mid day at the beginning of episode 4.5. 24 Dec 2004. 12-18 hours (on the boat and the island) after they took off from the island. The helo crew experienced 20 some minutes of localized travel time, the helo flew for 20 some minutes of localized time.(got that dgram) and note- the freighter is now 40 miles closer to the island in episode 4.5 than episode 4.3 So snarks Juliet "40 miles and 20 mins"
..So again, either the helo traveled farther from the island or traveled slower to the ship than the stationary observers expected..So what is your flavor of vodka? Spatial or Temporal? Did the helo fly into a spatial anomaly (wormhole/higher dimensional junction) or into a temporal anomaly (temporal vortex, sticky time, or your fluid density) that slows the relativistic time around the Helo and allows the stationary observers to transit time rationally? Which because less time passed for the helo crew than the stationary observers would indicate they still traveled a greater distance..who knows, maybe a combo platter of both. Maybe. I chose the anomaly in space because pure time anomalies are way way fringe, can't easily account for space, and rely on exotic...stuff, as in your stated hypo, an upstream/downstream model that has time flowing at variable speeds depending on the direction one transverses the field, and require C to be variable and violable in order for the two points to communicate; no sale. Also a spatial anomaly, topological ones, such as wormholes or higher dimensional polytope structures not only allow one to solve for the time problems encountered but can also provide for 'transportive' issues as seen here, in the Orchid video and as will be seen..well, you'll see. Thank you, come again. Dig the back and forth...and, I do like your fluid density example (refractive time..interesting)..in some such manner we both have to deal with relativistic time dilation. Which is especially interesting when you consider back to the rocket that it's clock was FASTER than the stationary observers..or are they. I have to return to drinking now..or perhaps I shouldn't...or even shalln't. hmmmm.
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there's still some lost time there - ever diminishing it seems, so that by the end it's only momentary - maybe even literally - but at the start the gaps were longer. The mid-sentence cut-off is a giveaway.
actually it's hard to tell if he blanks out or if there's a lucid Des there in 2004 when he's gone coz we never see it of course - and you're right, by the time he's only gone briefly in 2004 it's hard to tell he was away at all!
I wonder if we might eventually find out what Minkowski couldn't get back to? Could it be he actually flashed to a future where he was gripped by "have to get back" fever? -
hands down. that was terrific. the desmond/penny relationship is the emotional anchor, or constant if you will, of the show. that was just brilliantly written and executed. gut wrenching television, and a brilliant return to form for the greatest TV-show on earth. Good bad robot!
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quote from you:
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"We do know that it has ben shapeshifting into people from the characters past."
When did we learn that? The enhanced version please. -
Didn't mean to offend you or nothin - thought you had a good go of it, but I'm afraid you're still gonna need to try again matey...
I'm not sure what a pop up epy recap is but let's assume everything you say about the rocket experiment is true - it's still not enough to start getting out your calculator - as you admit, we have no idea how much time passed before the rocket finally arrived so maybe it's three hours maybe it's less maybe it's more - so all we know is the difference of 31 mins. You can try plugging that into an equation that compares it to the freighter's 27 seconds but there's a problem with that - when the rocket finally does arrive, Faraday calls the boat - and it's later on the boat too! From the perspective of Regina, that rocket arrived TWICE!
See the problem is the laws of physics - somewhere in between the boat and the island they change - and that means your equations are useless because they rely on the laws of physics. The "event" that you say occured that caused either the time or the distance to CHANGE - you're not sure which - that right there is what makes your equations wrong...
Comrade, vodka, you're not Russian by any chance?
Anyhow seems you already talked yourself out of the idea that less than 24hrs had passed but let's just be sure - A WHOLE DAY passed since they had taken off at dusk and spoke to Jack TWO mornings later - a day and a half... Get it? A WHOLE DAY and some change.
btw I do believe those are "buck rogers" sat-phones they are using that apparently only talk to each other - because they share the same "buck rogers" technology that allows for communications with the island - the same technology Dharma borrowed from Mr Rogers when they built The Flame. I can't say I have all the answers but I do know one thing - a satellite that is in geosynchronous orbit will still be there in the exact same place tomorrow as it was yesterday - so maybe they really ARE placing a call to someone from tomorrow? who knows?
Actually I think by the end there you're kinda getting it - it's not just one single equation you can solve that's gonna explain these time issues - especially not at this point with so little information. Oh and btw I know what you're saying about Penny's phone number and yes the 2004 part hasn't happened yet so it's not "changing the future" of 2004 - it's changing the future of 1996. Actually it's a very misleading term "changing the future" and Faraday is right to avoid it.
It's only a tiny little thing that changed in the future - he didn't know the phone number, and then he did. He didn't REMEMBER the phone number - at least not for more than a few minutes of his own subjective time - and then... well... let's hope Sayid asks again what the hell is going on and we get the story from 2004-Des' mouth. I have a feeling he just got some serious de ja vu! -
My head is exploding.
Good to see you back MP. -
I think you are getting dangerously close. Watch out for Cuse and/or Lindelof in night vision w/sniper rifles in your bushes.
After my several rewatches - I am playing with perception - mine. I am watching 2004 Dan and Des (facial expressions) and drawing a conclusion. A bit of evidence...Des went through a lot of trouble and anguish to distance himself from Penny in 1996. All of a sudden...HE MUST TALK TO HER. Why? His 2004 consciousness has swapped w/1996. In 2004 he is LONGING for Penny. He finds his 2004 mind in his 1996 body with the ability to call her (not stuck on an island). So he rushes off to do so (platoon be damned). 2004 consciousness to 1996 Body. 1996 clueless consciousness (8 yrs missing history) to 2004 Body. With some lag and dropping out in between (passing out if you like). Explains saying something/doing something in one time...consciousness jumps and you are completing a thought or action in a different body. We don't see Des once his consciousness leaves if he drops right out, switches, drops out and regains or what.
Minkowski sure looks like he got his present day consciousness and body to switch back. We don't see where that consciousness went (yet..but I think we will see that ferris wheel). If he drops out when that consciousness leaves to join his 2004 body or if he is walking around in, say 1980 with a mullet and a 2004 consciousness saying, "I should be on a boat right now!" But we might - and it would verify my theory. -
not to be ultra competitive, but I checked out that link with over 4000 posts. It's roughly 3 people with an obviously limited social life. And has little relevence to the story it is posting under. Unlike this one which has stayed mostly on point. And my dad is better than their dad.
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Great show last night. It is archived and for about $4 a month you can listen off the internet whenever. Anyway -last night, Neo-Darwinism & Academic Suppression
Film Producer of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (view movie trailers), Mark Mathis discussed his research into how the academic world treats university scientists, professors, and researchers who question the theory of Neo-Darwinism.
I just wanted to post something totally off subject to counter my last post. Was a good show, though. And they often have programs about time travel...see how I brought it back? -
Mundungus - Ambiance really posted that? I wonder if THAT is who Sawyer has been banging. Slips into the bear cage...gets free from the basement and joins Sawyer in the house...horny little toad. Explains why "Kate" is not worried about being preggers!
OK. That's gross.
Time to go back to work. -
His time travel episode last year was the best thing about season 3. It seems appropriate that his first S4 episode should expand upon that. Great episode. If 'Lost' could be this good every week it would be to supernatural thrillers what 'Sopranos' was to crime stories. As it stands, Desmond is still my favorite character.
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Thanks for the link again, pb! That guy never fails to crack me up. It is interesting how he's noticed that same monastery/university location that keeps popping up. Eventually they're going to need new locations!
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...couldn't wipe Lost's ass.
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the pattern in Faraday's journal looks strikingly similar to the diagram on the back of the Hatch door.
http://tinyurl.com/2vjb44 -
first, the time travelly stuff--what did peter davison/david tennant call it? wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff? Fantastic Doc Brown impression by Daniel Faraday. But most importantly, the connection between Desmond and Penny was unexpected, but terrifically satisfying in an emotional way. By being that constant, per the story line, we see forward progress and gain a sense of momentum. Really a well-drafted, well-executed, well-placed episode. By the way, at this point, I'd be willing to watch a television show that ocnsisted of nothing but Jeff Fahey in an undershirt and hawaiian shirt slobbering around. The new blood is fantastic. Chloe had an opportunity to show she's a tough gal. If I had a nit to pick, I'd say that I'm not curious about how the islanders can experience time as if they're part of the normal calendar, even though they're not. I don't think there's a flaw there--after all, Faraday basically said don't trust how you perceive time--meaning they perceive time's passage no differently. I guess the thing is, that the rest of the world is going through time at the same pace the losties feel they are...so what is the nature of the temporal shifts between coming and going, and what is the nature of desmond's experiences?
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so why does a day and a half pass if the island experiences time...and thinks it is on schedule with the rest of the world?
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Desmond turned the failsafe key. Minkowski actually physically travelled toward some kind of barrier. If they did the same thing, I could see everyone assuming that they'd have the same thing happened to them, but they didn't. Des' Charlie "flashes" seemed pretty weak. We never saw him go into the future in those episodes, he just kinda reported to Charlie as a psychic would. And when he went into the past in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" his island body seemed to be unconscious the whole time. So I think he wasn't really going back and forth until this episode when he crossed over whatever threshold that is between the island and the real world. Minkowski crossed accidently at what was probably a different point. So Minkowski became sicker faster before he could find a constant. But I don't get the impression that Des was going through the kind of stuff he went through this episode all along. I could be wrong though.
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Assuming it happens to other people on the island, Perhaps Ben has found a way to exploit it?
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with the time anomoly, a day and a half passed for Jack and the people on the island, and a day and half passed for the freighter. The only ones who thought 20 mintues had passed (or however long) were the people on the helicopter.
Island time and Frieghter time are the same...it when you cross some kind of barrier between the two when time gets all wonky. -
So okay, kudos to you good folks who are theorizing and working out the science and math of this show. I gotta ask you, though. Let's say your theories are correct. How in the blue hell do you get all that across to Joe Average audience member? Or don't you? Do you just push forward with as little of that info revealed as you can get away with so that you don't lose the audience? I'm fascinated that you guys are working it out, I really am. I just wonder if you had any thoughts on the revelation of this info. As impressive as all that work is, it's also a little boring to read. Let's jazz that shit up with some creativity!
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Has anybody come across any discussion regarding the insignia on the freighter. It's a white sea turtle against a black circle - very DHARMA! Is this a clue regarding the origin of the freighties?
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Firstly, I feel sorry for the people that gave up on this show. Secondly, to Xiphos, I call Penelope Thirdly, to Xiphos, I call Elsa (even though she is a backstabbing cunt) Fourthly, this was the most exciting episode of Lost since the pilot (with a great emotional punch in the gut at the end) Fifthly, to SickFixx, if every episode was like this one, I am convinced every set in America would be tuned in to watch. I wish that could happen, but that's setting the bar pretty high, don't you think? Sixthly, the Desmond consciousness issue. It's been stated here that the consciousness(es?) of 1996 Desmond and 2004 Desmond switched places. While it has been refuted in this TB already, I wanted to reiterate that this is not true. 1996 Desmond was the only one in this episode after they flew through the storm. Once Des called Penny, 2004 Des came back to his body and 1996 Des went along his happy way without remembering his experience. My question is: why did they show that shot of '96 Des walking away from Penny's apartment with a smile on his face? Wouldn't '96 Des be all like, "What the hell am I doing here? Wasn't I in the army?" Does this mean that '96 Des remembers the events of this episode? Seventhly, does anyone else feel left out because of the famous "Room 23"? I feel like it's a secret club that no longer exists and I never got to join. I feel so alone.
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I just like to think of the Room 23 people as a bunch of nerds who have too much time on their hands, and I never wanted to be part of their stupid group anyway.
And I know I have just as much time on my hands and am probably even more nerdy, i think that anyway, because it helps me cope. -
What a bunch of nerds!! What losers. Wow, I feel better already! What a great coping mechanism. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play with my lightsaber.
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I'm guessing that w/ Ben getting that operation from Jack, he developed some side effects from jumping around time. Probably how he knows so much about people.
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So...much...work...
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Room 23 geeky? I think not.
Sure we all started out with our Jessica Alba shrines, but they soon turned to Kate shrines, then Claire, back to Kate, then Shannon, then Kate, then Juliet, then Sun, then Claire, then just mirrors.
We spoke Kligon only every other weekend.
Chicken heads were bitten off weekly, not daily.
And we chose Room 23 because it sounded way cooler than our parrent's basement.
But you guys are cool too.....
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But ^^^^^^ does!
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You have the right to call whoever you want, but you must be first. It's do or die in this TB.
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I am sorry, except for the very end, which was very well edited, this episode was hard to follow.
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use my @@@@@@ to ###### all over *****'s &&&&&&&&,
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I'm seriously disgusted
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Then fall, Malloy.
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Mar 02, 2008 4:27:14 PM CST
Is the smaller island the Others live on east of the main island
by sick fixx
If so, and the island is Eden, then, the Others' island could very well be the Land of Nod. "And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden." - Genesis 4:16, King James Version. Considering that Locke is now living in the Others' camp and betrayed Jack and his group, he could be fulfilling the Cain story as well.
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First off, isn't Eden supposed to be paradise? Isn't it supposed to be protected by angels with flaming swords? I don't think the show has much to do with the Bible except in its themes.
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After this episode, in my humble opinion, Lost has now become my favorite TV show of all time. Hands-fucking-down awesome episode with a great ending. Outside of the Iron Man trailer, I've never hated commercials more than the ones that interrupted this hour of TV. Amazing job here Lost Writers. Cheers to you guys, brother.
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*Desmond's 1996 mind pulled into 2004 body - did his 2004 mind go anywhere? - not to 1996, he was catatonic while he jumped to 2004 - Desmond's nose was bleeding in 2004, not 1996.
*Minkowski was cognizant of his 2004 self and he was catatonic in 2004, so instead of having his past mind pulled into his present body, was his present mind pushed into the past or the future? - it would seem to be the past because his death in 2004 would change the future.
*Eloise's mind was apparently pushed into the future by Daniel's machine and she died when her present caught up to where her mind had been pushed, so her future wasn't changed.
What does it all mean? Is it relevant in any way? I don't know, but it was a great episode! -
Does he remember? Why was he smiling? Ah!
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I listen to Coast to Coast. Don't care much for George Noory though. Since he's been hosting, the show has become too new age, metaphysical and feel good. When Art Bell was hosting, some truly crazy things happened because he never screens calls. Remember when Bugs the farmer called in and told a story about how he and some friends killed a bigfoot thinking it was a bear, but then buried it because they weren't sure if they had just killed a human being when they saw it up close? Or how about the time the frantic Area 51 employee called in and said 'they' would triangulate on his location soon? He said that the aliens wanted to invade our population and the government was letting it happen. You can find the clip on Tool's Lateralus album on the final track. Crazy stuff. At its best, Coast to Coast is unmatched, better than Limbaugh yelling at callers, better than O'Reilly pretending to care about the little guy, better than Boortz's stop-go staccato speeches.
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on the boat, or will he remain with memory problems?
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But then it cut back to 96 Des smiling, walking away from Penny's place, AFTER the call. Wouldn't he have wondered why he wasn't sleeping in his bed at the military base?
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Since we're on the subject of time travel and we all seem to agree that this was a great episode.
Mine would have to be 12 Monkeys. -
I think he did reset. If I'm not mistaken, Sayid never mentioned his name to Des. So 2004 Des was able to recall his name and therefore has been reset
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which 12 Monkeys is based off of, is actually better in my opinion. But my favorite time travel flick is actually Back to the Future. I love that movie.
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After MY Formidible SUCCCESS last week OF finding CLUES by looking AT lost FRAME by FRAME through a Fork I decided TO try THIS week USING a Spooon!! At first IT was DIFFICULT becuase the SPON I used WAS too BIG and most things were A silvery BLANK!!
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Noory is ok. I lived on Art Bell's insomnicac radio through college and grad school in the mid 90s. Dreamland on Sat nights. I was actually referring to Ian Punnitt last night. I wish he would have taken the M-F gig instead of Noory. George still has shows capable of keeping my attention all night. You're right about his leanings, though.
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Jeez.
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That's why he was freaking out on Sayid going who the hell are you and why do you know my name. Everytime 2004 Des jumped into the past, 1996 Des jumped into the future, they just stopped showing us 1996 Des in 2004. I think after the first time we (the audience) just stayed with 2004 Des wherever he was in time.
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Maniaq and I have been trying to argue the swapping consciousness idea to no avail. I actually believed that was happening as I watched the ep and commented here. More convinced as I rewatch it. That, and as Dan and Des change their pasts, you can see it reflected in their faces in 2004...Dan goes and scribbles in his notebook as his past-self is making changes to his timeline - Des kinda stares off and grins. Like he did when he walked away from Penny's. His consciousnesses swapped back into their proper places, except now, both have awareness of each other since they have a constant in both times. In 1996, he knows what is to come and may try to change it - but I think we'll see course correction at work and he'll wind up on that boat, talking to Pen in 2004. And he's ok with that - 'cause now Pen and him have a future. Just a humble opinion.
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1996 Des went forward that was all. After Des contacted Penny, 2004 Des came back and the interim time period information filled in his head. Now, maybe that history was different from what it was before the episode began.
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If you notice on the MiSfIt'S site (and I hate typing it that way! Takes too long!) he posted a screencap of the auction with Widmore and the Black Rock Journal. There was a guy resembling Ben in the back row. I'm sure it wasn't him (just as I'm sure Aaron doesn't have 4 toes!) but the resemblence is there, all the same.
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Every man on the show needs to shave their heads and grow a goatee. Like me and my man Denzel.
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I'm just glad that they made BTTF in the 80's. If they made it nowadays they would cast Shia LaBeouf as Marty. Michael J. Fox brought so much energy and life to that movie. The script, direction, everything was great--but he carried the movie, not the DeLorean. I don't know if any young actor today could have done what he did.
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before the director sacked him.
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Just rewatched that shot of 1996-Des walking away from Penny's apartment - it happens at the BEGINNING of the phone call - just AFTER she picks up the phone and BEFORE he reports being on an island.
I think this was the director's way of showing us that both consciousnesses are now where they rightly belong and the "constant" trick worked.
So back in 1996 Des smiles, knowing that Penny just picked up the phone call he just told her is coming in 8 years time and that HE IS NOT GOING TO DIE - just yet...
It's got to be that and - just to make it a little more obvious for those who missed it (I did) he (director) gives Sayid a reaction shot to when Des says "I've been on an island" - which is something 1996-Des never knew - he knew he was on a boat but nobody mentioned anything about an island...
As for the swapping/not - I don't really think it matters, either way? Either they swapped but 2004-Des ends up UNconscious anyway or they didn't and 2004-Des went off to noddyland or some other place we don't know...
It doesn't matter because we never see him except briefly at the beginning and end of the episode - the rest of the time 2004-Des has nothing to do and we never see him do it (nothing) so what does it matter anyway?
I'm happy to go with some other explanation for what happened to 2004-Des during all this but I don't think it makes much difference...
Just one thing I keep forgetting to mention - the book "Our Mutual Friend" I think? So Desmond KNOWS this is the last thing he ever reads and he hasn't read it yet right? I kept thinking about that book this episode and how he hadn't read it yet... -
bears a striking resemblence to Jacob, well at least what we've seen of Jacob anyway.It's the hair and eyes that struck a chord with me.Even i think i'm wrong but still, it's got me wondering.
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then there must be only one consciousness going back and forth and that's why Fisher looked catatonic. Maybe when "he" was on the ferris wheel, the Fisher laying there was dead-ish? (He looked it.)
Okay, the first time Des went back in "Flashes" it was one long flash, one long trip to the past (no back and forth). Apparently on the island his body was unconscious the whole time, because he said he woke up naked in the jungle right? Okay the next time we actually saw him "leap" was when his past consciousness was brought forward into the helicopter. But what happened there? Was he knocked out? (I don't remember him bumping his head.) Or was it enough that he was asleep in 1996? Does asleep=unconscious? Or is this not time travel at all and just astral projection? Fuck it. I don't know what the hell is going on. -
can anyone indicate why penny's dad was so interested in the black rock mate's journal?
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"I'm not sure what a pop up epy recap is" ..the repeat of the prior weeks episode before the new episode that include VH1 style pop ups containing fun facts and cultural trivia about LOST from the show runners. Canon.
"that rocket arrived TWICE!"...no, it did not. You are confusing a misinterpretation/misreporting of the data, in this case Regina reading rocket telemetry, with a physical, effectual event. The only ones who see the rocket arrive are Faraday, Frank, and Jack. Also, Faraday did not call the boat again after the rocket arrived (I wrote he should have..and asked what the local time was on the ship). Sorry, the rocket arrived only ONCE, delayed, later than when it was expected to according to the data Regina was reading to Faraday. This could have been as simple and factual as Regina not having an accurate fix on Faraday's beacon to as complex and fantastical as the rocket stopping for a smoke and a coffee during those extra 31 mins 18 secs.
"laws of physics."...are just that. Laws, not suggestions. don't tell me what you believe, tell me what you can prove. The speed of light is the speed of light....until it isn't.
"A WHOLE DAY passed since they had taken off at dusk and spoke to Jack TWO mornings later - a day and a half... Get it? A WHOLE DAY and some change." ...I disagree with your assertion here, as outlined above in my prior post, but, for funzees and fivezees, and to major in the minors, let us assume your timeline is correct based on the ordination of the linear scenes and darkness/daylight cycles:
*Departure -00 - helo departs for ship with Frank, Sayid, and Desmond in DAYLIGHT before DARKNESS. Say sometime between 1700 hrs to 2100 hrs. Sayid will later query Frank "how is it we took off at dusk and landed in the middle of the day" (Note -the use of dusk by Sayid is factually incorrect as it was actually twilight when they departed. Twilight being specifically defined as the period on either side of DARKNESS during which it is possible to conduct outdoor activities without the aid of artificial light. Dusk is/refers to the degree of the sun below the horizon after sunset; either 6, 12, or 18 degrees depending on the category, but in all cases absent of most or all sunlight. And this was sloppy on the writers part as Sayid, being an observant if not wholly practicing Muslim, would certainly know and appreciate the difference in order to properly observe SAWM, which by and by...anyone remember Sayid observing Ramadan 16 OCT 04 to 14 NOV 04? hmmm..) Anyway, there was DAYLIGHT when the Helo left.
*Departure +12 - Jack, Juliet, Faraday, and Lewis depart AFTER the Helo and walk back to the beach arriving at camp in DAYLIGHT. Jack announces to all assembled that the chopper has departed with Sayid and Desmond making no mention of 'yesterday'. The next mention is by Sun to Jack, also in DAYLIGHT, who says to Jack "you said they left yesterday". In order for that statement to be true, Jack & Co. had to have camped/travelled during DARKNESS in order to be at camp in DAYLIGHT the next day.
*Departure +24 - Faraday and Regina are doing memory yoga using cards during DARKNESS, Juliet implores them to call the ship to ascertain the sit rep of the helo. Charlotte tells Regina "They left last night".
*Departure +36 - Jack during DAYLIGHT, frustrated, asks "alright, they took off a day ago, why haven't we heard from them?", and Charlotte responds, "As I have been telling you all night long..I don't know"
*Departure +36 and + 0 to 6 hours Jack is contacted by Sayid. Both parties are in DAYLIGHT.
Now, even assuming all of that is correct and true. What proof do you have that Jack and Sayid are still not on the same day? Correct, none( I just schruted you, sorry). All Sayid said was they left at dusk (Sun low in the sky before darkness) and now it was mid-day (noon + or - 2.5, sun high in the sky)..and why the goony goo is no one wearing a watch? Again, there is nothing that precludes it from being the same day/time on the ship and the island. And nothing to prove that it isn't. Sayid saw no passing of Daylight and Darkness and thus has no frame of reference to count and correlate days. Nor is any information given by any event or character that shows the helo crew took off one day prior or two or ten days prior. We only know for certain that one cycle of Darkness passed relative to the helo crew according to Sayid. That typed, I still stand by the contention that it has only been about 12-18 hours as written previous and that the writers erred in continuity. This is the case in either of our timelines. Either Sun's statement is erroneous in mine or Jack's statement is erroneous in yours, since with TWO cycles of DARKNESS passing, it would have been the second day since the Helo crew departed. So Jack should have said to keep your assertion continuity correct, "They left two days ago". I'm not sayin..I'm just sayin. Don't want to be 'that' pedantic peckerwad who starts trotting out all the varying fallacies of your syllogistic errors..so that typed. The equations work in either case. Try again. -
Seriously, why would the Hanso family sell the journal unless it was completely useless? Why would they tell people where the island is?
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I think that the island and the rest of the world must be on the same timeline. After all, Sayid knew time passed even though they were only gone 20 minutes. So time passed in the real world, AND on the island. Hence, the trajectory was like a reverse wormhole...rather than an "express lane" it was a "slow lane"; ie, they lose time going through the anomaly
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That's got to be one of the best time travel movies ever. And whenever Hurley is in an institution, I think of Brad Pitt locked up, doing his crazy schtik.
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should watch Le Jetee. Seriously. It's only thirty minutes. It's brilliant. If you want to be cheap, you can watch it on youtube.
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while I can see Terry Gilliam totally paid his respects to that movie and props to them for coming up with it in the first place, I liked 12 Monkeys better...
Especially the line to Madeline Stowe about falling victim to her own Cassandra Complex! Great stuff! -
It's either his, or he had it in his possession and sent it "Somewhere" to be sold.
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Ha - it's funny calling you that - 12 Monkeys is definitely worth renting. Deals with time-travel. Some people find director Terry Gilliam an acquired taste, but his movie Brazil remains my all-time favorite film. Another movie worth seeing at least once!
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Couldn't it just be that the Black Rock journal was stolen by pirates at some point and time? Why would Alpert or Hanso sell it?
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i agree 12 monkeys is one of the best time travel movies ever. no changing of timelines or paradoxes to worry about...everything plays out as it should. never caught le jetee (saw glimpses of it on the dvd) but should.
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Note Penny's address: "423 Cheyne Walk." That is a very obscure reference to a William Hope Hodgson character, Carnacki the Ghost-Finder. Hodgson wrote a few books just before World War I, including of course his famous THE HOUSE ON THE BORDERLAND and the super-trippy THE NIGHT LAND. For my money, his best character is Carnacki, who reportedly lived at "472 Cheyne Walk" and who made a career of using science to drive out the forces of supernatural evil. The book collecting these stories is called CARNACKI THE GHOST-FINDER. (Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/32ctxp)A pair of writers, A. F. Kidd & Rick Kennett, wrote a sequel in 2002 thru Ash Tree Press. I've read it -- and wonder of wonders, they got it exactly right. All the good things about the Carnacki stories -- and all the flaws -- are reproduced almost perfectly. (Anyone who has ever tried to read H. P. Lovecraft pastiches knows how rare this is.) (See http://tinyurl.com/2mlwj7, http://tinyurl.com/225lav, and
http://tinyurl.com/22gjdj.)I mean, everyone talks about LOST like it's full of obscure references, but usually they're really not that obscure. Not this one; this is the real deal. -
It ain't Michael, or Frank, Libby or whoever....
The shock ending, the surprise in 4.8... our "Kevin Johnson"... will be none other than..
TASG!
You know it makes sense.
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Razzle Dazzle - we want Nikki back! Ok, we don't, but I wouldn't mind a Corvette cameo.
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wanna know what you guys think about a couple of things. bear with me if these have already been talked about above:
1)obviously, daniel farraday has experienced the consciousness phenomenon. i believe he eventually used that machine of his on himself. well, remember when 1996 des smiled when the phone call was made to penny? i think THAT is the explanation of why farraday began crying when he heard about 815 and he said he didn't know why. obviously, some sort of phenomenon happens that transmits emotions from one consciousness to another. can't explain it yet, but farrady experienced it.
2)i think it was proven beyond doubt last week that going to and from the island involves passing through some kind of vortex. now i don't know if vortex means wormhole. i only know for sure that a vortex is involved with the navigation. here's the evidence:
at the beginning of the ep, frank showed a hand-drawn "cheat sheet" of how to get back to boat. the map shows some twists then a blatantly straight line followed by a hard 90 degree turn right. he was told to hold his bearing no matter what. when he held his bearing (though not exactly cuz it gave des "side effect") he started into a spiral consistent with a vortex. the hard straight line followed by the hard right on dan's map indicates the last moment before leaving the vortex when they were sort of with the flow of it. the hard right represented how to exit the vortex once you reach the edge of it. and sure enough, frank said, "hang on! two minutes," he then turned a 90 degree hard right and immediately arrived at the boat.
while on the boat, he told one of the crewmen that he did as farraday said and "followed the same VECTOR out" or something like that. point is, VECTOR was the key word. in geometry, vectors connect points A and B and represent both direction and magnitude. vectors are often drawn on 3D plots in mathematics or geometry having to do with SPIRALS.
there is a spiral vector clearly drawn on farraday's blackboard in 1996.
i don't know what is going on with the island itself, but i'm now a believer in the VILE VORTEX theory of how people get on the island. if you don't know the vile vortices theory then check it out. but i think there are at LEAST two places have a vile vortex that leads to the island. one is in the pacific way off the coast of fiji. the other is 40 miles off the coast of madagascar, which is how the drug smugglers got there.
SO WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
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Interesting about the vile vortices. I think you're on to something. As far as Farraday, I don't think he's used the experiment on himself yet because he knows he would die. His '96 self obviously forgets Des at some point so he doesn't know he has a constant. On the island though, 2004 Farraday knows now that Des is his constant. I think that Farraday wrote that note down in his journal while he was on the island.
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4we8 is right. See, I love this stuff. Time travel, worm holes, vertexes, etc. But the average joe on the street ain't gonna get the explanations as discussed here.
So I think things will not be this complicated. They may explain it as a shield which shifts time (or perception thereof) or whatever, but it going to be a simple, easy to grasp 2-3 sentence explanation in the end.
IMO -
How did Eko's brother Yemi's plane end up there? Your explanation would take care of that. Just like the the Black Rock journal ending up in Madagascar.
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now bear with me here because i still don't exactly understand it either. HOWEVER, i think he would have used the machine. i think that's why he would have written in his journal DESMOND HUME WILL BE MY CONSTANT. the reason he wouldn't remember des is not because he forgot about him. here's where it gets tricky...
the consciousness of the farraday that we meet in 1996 is not the same farraday we meet on the island. you see, the moment desmond flashes to the army base, the desmond we have come to know on the island vanishes. where is it? I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA. THAT is the strangest part. when freighter desmond calls penny, he is totally confused as to why penny has been looking for him for three years, because the eight years from last convo he had with her are missing in his mind. the consciousness in des's body is 1996 des, full stop.
now as i said, this phenomenon of where did the other consciousness go is part of the mystery that is yet to be explained. so farraday didn't know why he was crying about 815 because another consciousness from another time in his life took the journey, not him when he used the machine. he didn't anticipate this. but the other consciousness was obviously distraught about something to do with 815 passengers, because dan started crying without explanation. but then he found his constant on the island. -
man. you are tapping into some exact thoughts that i've had over the past few days since the last ep. i'm afraid if the writers aren't careful, they will end up alienating a huge portion of audience. vortices, wormholes, time dilation; all that shit can fly over many people's heads and can cause them to stop watching the show. my sis has been a long time watcher, but doesn't get into science god bless her. anyway, she told me the other day that she is starting to become disinterested because so much of the material this season has flown way over her head.
with that being said, i still don't want them to change the thinking aspect of the show. that is what has made it such a cultural phenomenon, especially on teh interntz. people from all walks of life coming together to spit theories based on complicated clues from the show. man i love being LOST. (poom) -
Other than the strange time anomoly, most of this complicated physics stuff exists on the internet only. There has been nothing on the show that requires the audience to understand vortices or wormholes, and there probably never will be. The more complicated you guys get with your theories, the less likely they are to have anything to do with LOST.
Darlton have been pretty up front that they won't include anything on the show that wouldn't be accessable to the average viewer.
Coming up with theories for the show that involve complicated physics might be fun, but I don't think it will be fruitful. -
the John Crichton and Aeryn Sun of the post Farscape air waves
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do you have any theories? i'm not on here much but it seems like whenever i see you all you do is debunk other people's shit. i'm not trying to be a dick, i'm seriously asking what you think is going on with the show/island.
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That's what I love about this show too. And I think they will continue that, but IMO it'll be thinking on a more philosolical angle than a science discussion.
That's what makes good sci-fi. Not to show my age here, but even way back in Star Trek there was the prime directive. That stemmed from the philosophical angle that they should interfere with how people/nations/worlds progress. There were more philo angles (like the first interracial kiss, a show where 2 warring factions were only differentiated by which side of their face was white and which side was black), but this one was a running theme.
Not to say LOST will have a prime directive. Prime objective...that's different.
But back on sci topic, they may explain the "majic box" as a vortex or wormhole, but I can almost guarentee it'll be a simple short answer. Then they'll get back to the real discussion...why the secrets of the island are being hidden from the outside world.
SciFi heads may not like it, especially the explanation, but I think that's about all they'll get.
Again, IMO. -
That stemmed from the philosophical angle that they should NOT interfere with how people/nations/worlds progress.
...sigh -
i completely disagree with your last comment. nothing on the show with wierd physics stuff? i don't get how you think that. the introduction of farraday to the show is to add an entire new element of the show...someone to explain the fucked up physics shit that is going on. i'm here to tell you farraday KNOWS what is going on and he's a physicist on the show. he's has hinted several times already about how fucked up the island is. consiousness leaping is already becoming unaccessible for many viewers.
LOST has always been a "down the rabbit hole situation. that's what i think the hatch represented in season one. the rabbit hole that would take the survivors down into the guts of this island and start them on a journey to see how fucked this place truly was. the show is getting progressively more complicated because has no choice but to be at this point.
whatever the outcome of the nature of the island is (scientific or spiritual), it's going to be complex and difficult to explain. -
That story was bitchin'.
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In a recent interview with Empire magazine, “Lost” star Matthew Fox admits he’s not the law and order type.
“I break the law all the time!” the Lost star revealed to the publication. “I've done plenty of illegal narcotics, but I think everyone knowingly breaks the law pretty often, don't they? I can't imagine living my life abiding by the law completely. That'd be tough to do.” -
I think it's fun to speculate, it's why we watch/read sci fi in the first place, right? I love this show because it's the first sci fi mystery program that actually might end up being beyond me- I mean, dealing in topics and fields I'm not educated in or familiar with, and that's very exciting. When you dudes talk about 'Joe Average' not getting it or somehow angrily turning the channel because someone had the elitist gall to mention the word 'physics' in a prime time network teevee show, I get a little frustrated, because I consider myself to be that 'Joe Average'. Most of you are too. What, are all the Lost talkbackers a bunch of fey, socially inept Daniel Faradays scribbling away on your virtual blackboards? no, you're fans, wasting time at work, just like me.
I really, really hope they continue to write over my head, I love that shit. I hope this show has the balls to offer some final explanations that will keep guys like us jabbering for years, extrapolating theories and debating the finer points of Alice and Wonderland, the Bible, Time Dilation, Kurt Vonnegut, Wormholes, etc. Actually, I can do without the Bible stuff, but anyway...
Cheers -
...i know you're not being a dick...you're absolutely right...i shoot down a lot more theories than I put forth myself.
Concerning my own theories, I try to be careful about what I postulate. I don't think LOST is the kind of show where you CAN know what's going on until the producers reveal the right pieces. If there is anything that watching this show has taught me, its that right when you think you have something figured out, they throw something new at you which manages to be both surprising and internally consistent with what has come before. Because of this, I've resigned myself to welcoming the new stuff without trying to out-guess it. I find it personally more fulfilling that way. I try to limit my 'theories' to putting together the pieces they've given us. For instance: Widmore buying the Black Rock ledger suggests he's interested in the Black Rock (and I presume, it's final resting place: the island), which suggests he could have something to do with the mission of the freighter, which was carrying Naomi and her 'team', who were recruited by Abaddon, which in turn suggests Abaddon could be working for Charles Widmore.
Now, that's not any kind of earth-shattering theory, but it hypothesizes something which isn't stated outright on the show, and is consistent with everything we've seen thus far. It also doesn't violate the spirit of LOST and its themes and tones.
When talking about the mystery of the island, I think basing it on some kind of complicated physics goes against the theme of the show, most of whose main characters are just normal people. Not that physics won't play into things anywhere. I just don't think the producers are ever going to delve into physics equations about time and space as an important point in explaining the plot. (btw, Faraday probably is there to introduce the science for the mechanics of the island, but I'd bet most of the characters won't understand whatever the hell he'll talk about, and the audience won't be expected to understand it fully either). Likewise, theories that take a lot of liberties with things that haven't been revealed yet I feel are way off base. The show isn't a chess game where if you look enough moves ahead you can figure it out. You don't even know what all the pieces are yet or where they're positioned. It's more like a complicatd puzzle where you get a new piece every week. You can figure out the part of the picture you've pieced together so far, but until its done, you'll never have any idea of how it fits into the OVERALL picture. And I know speculating is fun, but in fairness, most of the theories I put down are the dumbass ones like 'Clone Jack is in the coffin!' or 'Ben can travel to other dimensions!'
And in conclusion, I'd like to remind you that I'm an arrogant asshole who likes to shit on people's creativity. -
I just finished this game and it's great to see an alternate storyline. However, if anyone else sees the odd finish to the game, it sorta ties into last week's Desmond ep. And the references to leaving the island on specific bearings. Oh and you get to see the room in the hatch that was covered up by cement!
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fair enough. bar none the most endearing thing about you maxwell is that you're upfront. cheers.
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the ending of the game is laaaame. If it's true that the game isn't canon, then i think the end is just a random mindf*ck and a cop out. i hope the end has no relation to the show because it kind of goes against something Damon and Carlton have promised, 'No takebacks!'
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see, but the fact that you love to reach for material that is over your head(and ours as well, you're absolutely right)automatically makes you NOT an average joe. average joes love base material which requires nothing more from them other than to plop into a recliner, tune in and turn off their brain. i've heard so many people say they don't like LOST because it's too much to think about.
now, the problem the writers could run into is the fact that there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of viewers that have just such an attitude about television. all was well and good between these viewers and LOST until this season i'm afraid.
IMO, when all is said and done, the viewers who got into the show early on and loved it to the end will be the viewers that surrendered to the island and made a conscious decision to just get LOST with the survivors. while we talk alot of bullshit theories, i think almost everyone on here who's not a hater has surrendered to the show and love being along for the ride. because in the end, maxwell is unfortunately right :), we won't know anything for sure until it is revealed. -
His evil twin brother!
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all theory of course
Farraday could try to work with Eloise or maybe some rabbits and send them through differnt parts of teh Islands "Time field"......Then he finds a certain point and out of absolute niceness ends someone who has been subjected to large amounts of electromagnetism (Locke or Desmond, back in time to stop the plane from taking off) hence erasing the whole future and the occurances on teh island....we end the show seeing the live Shannon, Boone, Charlie, Eko and whomever else dies...their lives all turn out completely diferent from what we see in teh flash forwards but still traigc....and maybe teh last shot is them all boarding another plane not oceanic 815....prob a shit thought but worth a shot -
I bet there's a secret hatch on the island that allows people to leave without screwing up anything on the mainland.
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Jack wakes up in the jungle next to Suzanne Pleschette! It was all just a dream!
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Since he's already on the freighter, does he get back home? I guess he wouldn't be one of the Oceanic Six since he wasn't on oceanic. But does the media recognize he was on the island? Or does he die? It's hard to imagine why he would go back to the island now.
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I percived Desmond's first and second time travel/body swaps to be completely different and somewhat unreleated.
The first time, after turning the key, Desmond is thrown into flash-forwards that show Charlie dying. Desmond unsuccesfully tries to change this outcome - since the outcome is already decided.
The second time is caused due to the previous radiation exposure (turning the key) plus traveling off of the island and grazing the vortex/wormhole/time-differential.
From what I could see the helicpoter stayed somewhat on course but did vary slightly during the storm. Desmond sat on the other side of the helicopter than Frank or Sayid, hence he may have inadvertently crossed into the area they were trying to avoid.
Because of this combination Desmond's consiousness traveled and needed a constant to stablize. The average 815er shouldn't run into this particular problem, but may experience other side effects. -
Obviously Ben gets off the island, or goes back and forth (we have yet to see). And while he could have changed his name to appear to be one of the Oceanic 6, I don't think he is.
At this point we know Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid. My guess is that the other 2 are Jin and Sun.
What about Desmond, Juliette, Rosseau', Alex, etc... Do any of you think they may go back, but just on the boat - not an official Oceanic 6er? -
Whatever happened to Kate's duped husband played by the awesome Nathan Fillion? Kate probably never gave him a second thought once she gets off the island. She really treats guys like shit...
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I imagine that there will be an episode near the end of the series that will serve as the 'Black Rock Flashback'. I'm betting that we'll see several familiar faces among the crew, including many of our favorite castaways.
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i like it, sir. i LIKE it. we could use another big action set piece like the plane crash. and in period, too. i REALLY like this idea.
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after our successful attempt to guess the season 4 premier(we were wayyy off)im up for that
yeah the kids are all great, got myself a wee run in one school so all is good, plenty of drinking money for the forthcomin St Patrick's day..thats always a messy occasion..
trying to pop in where I can but with the band and all its hard, got one of our tunes played on the radio there the other day so ti was like one of my greatest hits, not a big national radio channel but its still something...
the lost pages are rife with spoilers and u know how I feel about those..haha....so I try to pop in where and when I can to avoid as much as humanly possible, I'm at a stage now where I'd love to not know whose flashback/forward it is before I watch the episode...
that Desmond episode is just oo good, so emotional and soo fulfiling at the smae time leaving me without a notion of what the fuck is happening, I dont know how they constantly pull this off
however, namaste and hopefully will be on tomorrow for a bit....
oo and before go is the Lost game any good on teh xbox 360, got call of duty there if anyone wants a lost related chat whilst shooting each other..hahagood times friends, hope this msg finds everyone well -
I rewatched it, again, and I now see that you guys were right. 1996 Des was the only Des time travelling this episode but I don't get how. I originally assumed it was 2004 Des because he was the one who went through that barrier or vortex or whatever (and turned the failsafe key). So now I don't understand what would have propelled 1996 Des forward. Nothing happened to him. He was just sleeping. So why would that consciousness travel?
Anyhoo, rewatching it is making me love Sayid all the more. His attitude while trying to tolerate all the stuff happening on the freighter is absolutely hilarious. -
It's crazy..
its a national holiday and we dont have many of those here...the pubs open bout 11am and close about 130 am the following night...that gives a good 14 and a half hours to drink...
last year my group of misfits had a Guinnes drinking competition to see who could drink 30 pints of the black stuff..I did it and cant remember March the 18th and 19th..haha
There are gig's, parties, parades and lots and lots of booze....and this week it falls on teh same week as Easter starts so more people will be off work..
there are very few sober people left in teh country by the time the 17th of March is finsihed..just think of the Simpsons episode where Bart gets drunk on Paddy's day and tehy prohit alcohol into Springfield...its just like that only with more fighting..haha
its the biggest party day of teh year, and myself being a bit of a drinker(cough cough)will be there with my steriotypical on once again..im just glad Lost is not on Monday nights this year...
but New York has the biggest St Patricks day celebration in the world, even bigger than Dublin.. I was asked to go to New York to celebrate it this year but couldnt as I am working in a school and wouldnt get the time off, so its teh pub for me again...I cant bloody wait now..haha -
saints national holiday and I'll be teaching about it all next week about how he chased the snakes out of Ireland using Gods influence and guidance...however on teh day of his celebration i'll be not celebrating the snakes story but the fact Guinness was invented and housed in Ireland..not very patriotic eh...
U Americans have some absolutly great parties, or at least TV makes us believe that..thats why I am kinda sad im not getting over to new york for it... -
In Madison, WI USA.
Every Tuesday.
And Wed.
Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun, and Mon. -
put down the pot pipe! Heh heh... heh...
...
shit. -
apollo/zarek or the fat naked gay man?
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I peeked at some of your spoilers. I've tried to be spoiler free this year .... but I don't buy the coffin theory. Without revealing who it might be, ... Why wouldn't Kate attend the funeral? I didn't read much more of your post, so maybe there was some explanation in there. But it just didn't make sense.
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Response to Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers, Major Spoilers,
Why wouldn't Kate go to Jin or Sun's funeral?
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way I remember it, it could be an absolutely dead ordinary Tuesday night - no special occasion whatsoever - and the streets are crowded and the pubs are full, like it was New Years or something!
anyhow, slightly more on topic, has Faraday's (apparently poor) memory been affected by Des' time travelling shenanigans? I got the impression the note about Des being HIS constant couldn't be found in that journal at the beginning of the episode, just like Des didn't know Penny's phone number...
Or did Des saying 1996 trigger a memory of having met him and the whole bit with Eloise and 1.21 gigawatts (joking;) - up until that point he showed no indication of having ever met (admittedly shaggy and unshaven) Des, who he called "your friend" before - but according to his journal he even knows his last name and, certainly by the end of the episode, knows all about Penny...
...which begs the question - did Faraday bring the photo of Des and Penny that was found on Naomi to the party? -
my speculation as to who's in the coffin - I still think there's a good chance it's Juliet BUT - I keep wondering WHAT IF in fact there is NOBODY in the coffin?
As in, Jack didn't go there to pay his respects to someone dearly departed but actually he was hoping to find someone among the MOURNERS?
The bogus name and obituary - did Jack maybe know this was actually CODE for a meeting or a dropoff or something like that, which could lead him to the right guy (Abaddon?) that could get him back to the island?
Knowing there's nobody actually in that coffin, and that it's all just part of someone's (Dharma? Ben? Widmore?) games, Kate's response to why she didn't go to the funeral would be "why would I?" - it's just an idea, and not one I'm completely sold on, at this point... -
Look closely, he had the same question I did. And I never mentioned any names of possible coffin occupants in my posts - but you just did!!! For shame, pb! Node is going to come after you now!!!!!
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I'm pretty sure I'm in the coffin.
How do I know?
Because I was there! -
I think someone somewhere already confirmed that yes, there is a body in there, and we'll know who by the end of season 4. I'm happy to report that my wife is now watching Lost with me regularly on Thursdays! She went from reading or surfing the net during the show last year to watching it with me this season. Last week she fell asleep before "The Constant" but she made sure to watch it on DVR the next night. So another fan is born!
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that the death of a major character - the one mentioned in FOUR WE ATE's spoiler, is not ALSO the person in the coffin. The way they die on LOST, it could very well be 2 seperate people. The speculation (all I have read) is correct (I believe) on the death, but I have also heard a person more connected to Jack and less connected to Kate is the one in the bad neighborhood in LA in the coffin. Look, if it were *&^, why would the viewing be where it was and you know damn well #%@ would be there balling his eyes out. His EYES out (hinthinthinthint).
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I hope you're wrong! I know that death's a-coming for someone soon, I just don't want it to be @#%&#%!
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That poor dog. No one bothered to show up.
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So I looked at the last scene in TTLG. Kate's response to Jack about not attending the funeral...that face she makes was identical to the face a chick makes when you promise to not shoot your load in her mouth...and then you do. Why would she make that face if *&^ was in the coffin? Unless "more is to be revealed" about their relationship...she wouldn't. But I can think of a couple others she would make that face for (and NOT Sawyer...Sawyer is not the corpse).
Matthew Fox hates the law and does illegal drugs.
GO TEAM JACK!!!! -
She would never make that exact face. She's smile. Then try to kiss you. SNOWBALL!!!
Goddamn that is gross. What the hell is wrong with me tonight? Help me gotilk!!!! -
It's gotta be Juliet then...
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Vincent = Ben's "man" on the boat!! Rip out electronic equipment? Labs can be chewers. Open a door? My Lab can open a dor if there is food on the other side. Or chew through it. Vincent had a doggie cage ticket. He is one of the O-6. HE IS THE ECONOMIST! VIncent is also time jumping to his 1999 self when he had a nice bitch and an endless supply of Milkbones. Then he found himself in Ben's kennel. Now he works as Ben's right paw dog, doing the dirty work no one else will do. Flashback in Ep 10 confirmed.
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The last episode of Lost will reveal that Vincent is really the owner of the island and someone will notice Vincent has four toes.
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He's the only tallie I miss.
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Who's still alive Scott or Steve?
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MAJOR SPOILERS, obviously.
The info that Juliet is married to Goodwin is wrong. Goodwin is married, but he and Juliet are having an affair. "The Other Woman."Likewise...I think your guess on Sun is wrong. Though the fact that it's Sun or Jin is right on.And the person who dies in the upcoming death ISN'T the one who's in the S3 finale coffin. That's another death.
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http://tinyurl.com/2dyvx8
LOS ANGELES - Bai Ling says she made an "innocent mistake" when she allegedly took a pack of batteries and two tabloid magazines at Los Angeles International Airport without paying for them.
ADVERTISEMENT
In a message posted on her blog hours after she was charged with petty theft on Monday, the Chinese actress said she's "relieved" that prosecutors decided not to pursue a more serious misdemeanor count against her.
The actress faces a $250 fine for allegedly shoplifting $16.22 worth of items, including two Star magazines, said city attorney spokesman Frank Mateljan.
"There's no jail time associated with that amount," Mateljan said.
Her arraignment was scheduled for Wednesday, when Bai could contest the infraction or pay the fine, Mateljan said.
"What happened was an innocent mistake on my part and I am confident that the truth will be told since I never had any intention of taking items without paying for them," she wrote without elaborating.
The actress, who has appeared in such films as "The Crow" and "Anna and the King," was arrested Feb. 13 after she was detained by a store employee who summoned police.
She later told E! News that she was having an "emotionally crazy" day because she and her boyfriend broke up right before Valentine's Day.
WHERE'S THAT LEAVE US ON THE BAI LING WATCH?????????? -
Mar 04, 2008 3:15:54 AM CST
4we -- Kristin's spoilers wern't as juicy as she thought
by jimbojones123
We've known Jin/Sun were 2 of the 6 for months. We've known 1 of the 6 will die. They are the only pair, so we can deduce that one would be expendable.
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It may be Mr. Friendly in the box. It's been rumored he'll be back....
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prepared to believe they are O-6 but I think ppl are misunderstanding what it means to be O-6 - it means they are ALIVE and FAMOUS!!
does anyone seriously believe one of the O-6 could end up having a funeral nobody attends in a dodgy ghetto neighbourhood?
if Sun and Jin are indeed two of the six then neither of them are in the coffin - GUARANTEED! -
No reason for either of them to die as far as I can see. Or maybe better stated either of their deaths would seem to be anticlimatic.
If guessing, and I am, I go back to Sayid. We know all are lying. We know Jack will have doubts about lying in the future, and Hurley will have his own reservations. We know Sayid is now a known assasin and we can assume he will take an alias. We also know he's alone without Nadia, and in the states where the only people he knows are the O6. We can assume he's being hunted, and we may take the leap that Kate would not go to the funeral either because of his affiliation with Ben or not wanting the hunters to know she knew his alias.
So I'll stick with Sayid being in the casket.
...and I think this is 1200 -
...in the states part.
oops....... -
...that it is John Locke in the casket. Inagine: When Jack rips John Locke from the island, he will see Locke turn into a crippled man. Furthermore, Jack will realize that Locke was a former patient who could not be "fixed" by Jack and his dad. Jack will start to feel guilty, and come to the conclusion that they can go back to the island and change the present through the islands unique time-travel portals. Interesting?
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"Not even God can see this island" ..it is all about the topology Maniaq...
If you want to visualize the island, take a balloon, blow it mostly up and draw a map of the world on the outside. Where ever you think the island is in the ocean, draw a wee dot. With your thumb and fore finger pinch down around the wee dot forming another wee bubble. Twist a couple times, not to tight, push on the wee dot on the wee bubble back inside of the balloon. What you should see (beside the wee balloon sphincter) is a bubble inside of a bubble (the old bubblegum blowing trick of a sort)
The Cartesian coordinates of the island (the wee dot) that were a few seconds ago visible and in rational Minkowski space-time on the surface of your globe facsimile are now inverted on the inner surface of the inner bubble of an n-dimensional manifold sunk in the ocean. The topological defect, the twist (balloon sphincter) represents the connective surface ocean and atmospheric vortex that bends and and possibly tears M space-time. The vortex would also extend above the surface plane into the atmosphere, perhaps into infinite space. Now, in this model, the vorticity wouldn't necessarily have to be a large, powerful whirlpool on the ocean surface (a maelstrom...a Miles Strom) or a swirling hurricane in the atmosphere, as the field strength and defect would reach normality at the junction point of either manifold, you might simply have bad seas and a thunderhead ("why are you flying directly into the thunderhead") ..you might evensee only a hazy wavy mirage type thing that would render interference to visual and instrument acuity (kind of like the logo type thing). You would have to travel specific coordinates in flight or by ship to transit the vortex lest you bang into the other side with all kinds of causal queries, or you'd miss and sail or fly right back around to where you started, or you would take longer than you think and travel farther than you thought to get in or out. neato. Oh, and the bubble could be slightly mobile anchored to a neighborhood in space, put not necessarily a specific address.
How'd this happen? AWK, the island has strange geophysical and electromagnetic properties. So as the oversimplification of the theory goes, crank up the attraction on the field to sufficient strength (say with an electromagnetic field or island with concentrated holmium) and the object doesn't warp space star trek or black hole style pulling things in, but rather it 'sinks' in on itself and out of rational, localized space into hyperspace of any higher dimensional polytope structure including the wonderful 4 dimensional world we find ourselves confined to by alll those crazy Germans and or god type guy/girl spaghetti monsters. The bubble the attractive field about the defect would hold all the atmosphere and the ocean on the curved space of the inner bubble. The attractive field would create a nice happy little biosphere with weather and such and such and allow light (including that from stars) to transit the vortex and project on the inner space-time of the wee bubble. This model would require specific coordinates to transit from the island to RW, either by flight or sail..but not necessarily for underwater transit as diving through the EM field holding the bubble in place in space would simply place you at an analogous depth with less of the specific temporal and spatial anomalies. (Why they needed a submarine)
In this model, radio and or non-point to point light speed communication would be possible and not require your 'buck rogers' phones from the future (trademark) which, btw, probably couldn't be your quantum tunneling FTL/FTT type gizmos anyway, for if they were, they would not have been effected by the Looking Glass station jamming or interfered with by Rousseau's RADIO transmission which ARE operating according to the laws of physics. What would be interesting is if they are advanced non-line of sight ELF phones.(NAVY SEALS approve)talking to the ship via signal sent through ocean rather than atmo. All of it is math possible.
Bubble in a bubble, big magnet, twisty sphincter..yep that is it. Now, if I could only explain the rapid healing of say Locke walking and talking and playing backgammon a couple of days after he got gut shot..if only there were some hyper-smart doctors on the island to ask some questions..wait a sec. -
Hornswaggle.
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I can see a scene where Miles starts to explain in un-understandable terms, stops realizing no one is following him, pulls out a ballon from somewhere...depending on where they are when he explains it, demostrates what was just described and then the explanation is done.
Complex and simple at the same time, and for those that don't understand vortexes, they'd still have a visual.
Nice.
As for the healing, I think that'll be explained by another mystery being solved. Dharma had many experiments going on, ya know? -
The main dramatic question of the series is Will Jack overcome Locke and save the Losties
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You really think that? For real? Locke Vs Jack is how you think it will end? Maybe PART of the questions for this season. But if this part of the story lasts through the entire run of the rest of the series itself, they have a big problem on their hands. A big, frustrating, boring problem.
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I think you should officially call that the "Balloon Knot Theory".
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Christopher Nolan. I loved his interpretation of bats, and established figure. It'd be nice to see what he'd do with LOST as currently established.
Hi pa. Howya doin'? -
If you hear about some character coming up in LOST called Al Bielek, then my suspicions are confirmed. This whole time-travel thing is following EXACTLY the footsteps first trod in the cinematic masterpiece THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT, in which huge electromagnetic fields are employed to make an American warship, the USS ELDRIDGE, visually invisible. The experiment, in 1943, goes wrong, opening a portal in space/time to 1983. Various crewmen find themselves suffering bizarre side effects, including time-shifting. Michael Pare plays the main guy. Al Bielek is the guy in real-life who claimed the Philadelphia Experiment was real, and that he was part of it. A lot of websites claim to have debunked Al Bielek, and I tend to agree with them - while a very entertaining conspiracy story, the Philadelphia Experiment - which supposedly continues, in another form, under the base at Camp Hero in Montauk - seems to come up a dud in the field of conspiracy theories.
But mark my words... LOST is very much in love with the Philadelphia Experiment and the mythos surrounding it.
They're messing with things... THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND!!! -
It has been set up since the first season that Jack and Locke are the protagonist and antagonist. There are obviously other questions/characters/mysteries that we are tracking, but in the end, there will be a final battle between the two of them where, in my opinion, there will be integration and not destruction. But let's wait and see.
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Is he still on Prison Break? Or making those V dub commercials? He'd be great on Lost! Put him on the freighter.
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[channeling crazy Farraday] Ok. Ok. Let me think out loud. Alright. She likes puzzles--that's a given. Puzzles. Puzzles. Lost is a puzzle. Putting pieces together. With math. Physics is math. Kind of. Physics--partical motion. Puzzles. Games. Physics. Physics. Games. Puzzles. Games. Like a--like a game! Like Backgammon! Locke and Walt played backgammon! Locke and Sawyer! Elsa was German! Sawyer and Walt were--they are both--they both-- they were both on flight 815! Elsa was--she must have been--she was on flight 815 playing--playing Backgammon with--with Locke! Using MATH like SODUKU we know through the TRANSITIVE PROPERTY that--Holy crap! Elsa is paralyzed!
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Mar 04, 2008 6:55:12 PM CST
Um...the spoilers I was talking about were heavily posted
by jimbojones123
And they wern't that good anyways.
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Wasn't trying to be a dick.
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Yon need to make sure you are waving your hands around like Colombo when you do that DannyBoy rant.
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seems to fit with what we know so far - which I still think is not enough just yet - and I reckon you've earned yourself an upgrade to a B+
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was before my time but I WAS imagining some crazy arm movements to accompany my rant. I also wanted to throw a phew Doc Brown mannerisms in there as well
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But the man is a legend - if not from the impersonators I've seen. Danny looks like he is channeling him some Detective Colombo.
Interesting "reason" why Dan and CS are at the Orchid. Its a spoiler (and I will label as such). Does anybody want it? Ah heck - just go to DarkUfo...they've got Post Produxion's one liner-spoilers for S04E06. -
from our New TB. Congrats to everyone on one of the best TBs I've ever read.
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http://tinyurl.com/2fkzwx
Love the last lines. Maybe (harkening back to my room 23 CV requested strange predictions for this year) she will be as bad or worse than Ben.
Enjoy -
And on to the next one... in just a day now. Fast week.
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Nothing new, pa. FDA's at one of the Philly offices on a surprise visit, dog's old, and we had enough rain last night to raise our drought-stricken lake/resevior by a foot. Other than that...
I did get an email from my firend that turned me on to LOST after S1 the other day and she's not happy with the way the show is progressing. Shocked the hell out of me.
Females...as Norm from Cheers said, Can't live with them, pass the beer nuts. -
I'm a trainer at a company that facilitates drug development trails for pharmas. Everything from protocol development to biostats and medical writing.
That last part's what the company does. I develop and deliver training material mostly in data management, drug safety, and clinical programming.
This friend I mentioned is getting married in a few weeks on what is possibly a Saturday night where UNC is playing to make it to the final 4. Good news is the wedding and reception are on the campus at the Carolina Inn. Bad news is this is 2 years in a row a friend has eaten up my time during game time.
Selfish, I know. But damn!! I know she's doing it to make sure she's more important to him, but doesn't she realize there are others in the world besides him this matters to?
Wait...female...wedding...okay, that answers my own question.
She has her good qualities too...kinda hard to see them now, but she's got them.
;-> -
damned women
;-> -
More people should do like I did - call up a preacher and ask him if he is free a week from Friday. My wife and I had about a 3 week engagement - no fuss, no mess, no $1000's of dollars wasted on stupid dresses.
Of course my mother will never forgive me - she wanted a big wedding to show off her baby boy to her friends and relatives! -
Thanks for the link. I like her character - hope she doesn't die.
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Mar 05, 2008 9:48:28 PM CST
So are we pretty sure now that Desmond's Deadly Time Traveling P
by terrymalloy
is the The Sickness? If so, the members of Rousseau's team must have encountered radiation or electromagnetic energy before arriving on the island which caused the sickness. I also wonder what the other side effects are.
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