Cool News
‘Maybe We Should Just Tell Them!!’ Widmores and Minkowski!! LOST 4.5!!
I am – Hercules!!
“Tell us what??”
“They took off a day ago!! Why haven’t we heard from them??”
“Why are you flying directly into the thunderhead??”
“Let go of me!!!!”
“What the bloody hell is going on??”
“Am I gonna die??”
ABC says of tonight’s “Lost,” the Desmond-centric “The Constant”:
Sayid and Desmond hit a bit of turbulence on the way to the freighter, which causes Desmond to experience some unexpected side effects. Guest starring are Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus, Alan Dale as Charles Widmore, Sonya Walger as Penelope "Penny" Widmore, Graham McTavish as sergeant, Darren Keefe as Billy, Edward Conery as auctioneer, Marc Vann as doctor, Fisher Stevens as George Minkowski, Kevin Durand as Keamy and Anthony Azizi as Omar.
What is ABC leaving out? “The fifth episode of the season deals with time travel and operates in different time periods,” “Lost” showrunner Carlton Cuse tells Jeff Jensen of Entertainment Weekly.
The same interview tells us we will learn this season who was in that third-season finale coffin, that the Adam and Eve skeletons won’t be dealt with this season, that the Orchid Station (of the ’07 Comic-Con orientation film) will play a big role this season, and that Miles’ last name is Straum.
* Dan will intimate that the islanders’ perception of time is not to be trusted.
* The journey will cause Desmond to begin ranting.
* Sayid, Frank and Desmond will arrive on the freighter in daylight.
* Minkowski (“Short Circuit” icon Fisher Stevens) will greet Desmond from a sickbed.
For those asking what I thought of last week’s installment? Loved Miles’ grenade breakfast. Liked that Frank’s chopper was overdue. Didn’t mind learning details of the Oceanic Six cover story. Very slightly intrigued about Jack keeping a distance from Aaron. (I’m guessing maybe Jack blames himself for some yet-to-be-disclosed Claire situation. Might like it better if Aaron keeps seizing control of Jack’s brain without permission.) Thought the details of Kate’s probation far from interesting. Thought the D.A. asking Jack if he loved Kate was kinda useless, since Jack was already lying about loads of stuff under oath.
9 p.m. Thursday. ABC.
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Readers Talkback
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It will make the Penny storyline completely worthless.
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more lost
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woo hoo!
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Lost is back in a big way. I can't wait for tonight, spoiler free of course.
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The first episode of the season that really intrigues me. The sneak peeks got be exicted (spoilerly as they were) - and usually they are just filler scenes of no real merit. Hopefully therefore the rest of the ep must be pure gold. <p> And we have been lacking in Desmond this season. I'm missing him, brother.
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just a slight appetizer while I await the Wire. Pongo, I totally agree. Don't kill off Desmond. He's the best character on that island.
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....*disclaimer*.... Ben is definately in the coffin!
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Don't get me wrong I loved that episode. The one thing I really felt uneasy about was when the woman showed up at the ring store, and started going on about fate and so on. <p> It was way too much like the Oracle in the Matrix movies. I just hope it doesn't turn into the philsophical pretentious mess of the last 2 films.
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This is my First post on these talkbacks. I have been reading this site for years and finally decided to join.
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at this point in the story might be one of the few things that would make me tune out of Lost. I sincerely doubt that will happen though. His story seems way to integral to the overall plan here. He has to be destined for something great, right?
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I'm watching an episode this season completely spoiler free. The excitement is killing me. I LOVE THIS SHOW.
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A couple friends seem to be growing impatient with this show still, even though it's moving faster than ever. I used to try and argue the point, now I just say "Maybe you should stop watching, sounds like you've hit the wall" and that's a lot easier. Highly recommended.
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In some ways this is a weak season, and in other ways it isnt. I agree with the fact that there isnt the same emotional resonance, but at the same time, the ride is wilder than it has ever been I think. We are back to getting interesting and surprising twists every episode and that hasnt really been the case since season one.
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Yeah, there's definietly some sort of Matrix-y vibe about Lost, but I don't think there's any danger of "philsophical pretentious" arising seeing as the Matrix was simple tale of a guy realising he's carrying around the answer to a problem and takes it upon himself to do what needs to be done to solve the problem... or did I see a different story than everybody else...<p><p><p>
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This is my first post too. I've been reading all the lost talkbacks since last years season finale. Finaly I decided to join. Hello everybody.
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Lost is still pretty strong. Something about this seasaon seems a bit thin though. Could be the fact that they intro'd more characters with more backstories. Also one thing that always bothered me was how easily they can track and find eachother on this island. The island always seemed so much bigger in the first 3 seasons. I understand that you need to edit something out in order to condense the storylines but when everyone walks through the jungle and they so easily track or stumble upon eachother, it sort of breaks the illusion. Just a thought.
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Let's all prepare to have our minds completely screwed with again.<p> <p> and ForkTongue, they find each other so easily now because they are going to specific places. If you have to wander around and find someone it takes a long time, but if you know that they are likely at the beach or at the barracks you go directly to that location and it's no big deal.
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It's an addiction. And misery loves company. So.. good to see you!
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I think it's just that they stick to certain areas on the island, more or less
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I don't get why people are whining about Jack being asked if he loved Kate. He was supposed to be a character witness and was talking about how wonderful Kate was, so the prosecutor was trying to point out that he had every reason to say things to get Kate out of trouble. It's not like she could say, "Look Jack, we all know you're full of crap because more than 8 people survived the crash." She really had no way to combat his testimony other than that. Sure, it was not the most realistic trial ever, but you know what there's a dude who travels in time and a giant monster made of smoke that comes out of the ground and beats people to death, so I'm willing to let the legal realism slide a bit.
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It's nice to be able to post on here again. For quite a while everytime I tried to log in to post in a Lost talkback, it just asked me to log in again and again and again. I felt like I was stuck in some sort of screwed up loop like Des in FBYE.
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I'm already addicted to read all the posts every single time. It can only get worse now. but I couldn't care less.
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Please gop back to the old way you wrote the LOST posts, it was much better.
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Ended up clicking the login button rather than hitting enter.<P> Go figure.
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That scene where they all met and Jack pulled the gun on Locke that really bothered me.
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i didn't have a problem with that. after all, the last time they all met up, Locke killed Noemie in full view of everyone. Jack was understandably pissed.<p> as for Eggtown, i thought the dwelling on Kate's legal problems was reasonable enough: it'd have been lame if they didn't deal with it as a significant obstacle. plus i thought the final flashback redeemed any water-treading elsewhere in the ep.<p>
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Even when you get an episode last week like "Eggtown" that is weak by LOST standards, you know that the next week will be cock-explodingly good. The preview for this episode that aired after last week's ep has me very excited.
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Let's hope they can keep it up.
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I agree with you about letting the legal realism slide, but your argument brings up an interesting point. I feel that the "real" things in lost (human emotion, situations, etc.) are ESSENTIAL to this story, in fact, it's the POINT. Everyone in this show has lost their way in their lives, and through their trials on the island, they find themselves. The reason the island and everything on it and how people react is all juxtaposed against the REALNESS of everything else - that's why it works. Granted, I thought the trial WAS realistic, but I'm no expert. Regardless, it's ESSENTIAL that the real things feel real so we get that contrast, and understand the seriousness of every character's life.
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...I'm sure he's not dying anytime soon, he's too awesome. But at the same time, I'm I the only one who thinks that his (Henry Ian Cusick) talent is being wasted on this show. He's too good for bit pieces here and there!
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People on the island who die have a way of sticking around. Christian, Mikhail, Charlie, etc. But even taking that into account, I do not think he will die.
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Oh no doubt about that, the devil, as they say, is in the details. I just don't think that the trial itself was really all that big of a deal. It wasn't there to show us the legal drama, the outcome was a done deal long before it ever started. Its purpose was to show us around 4 things: (1) That, yes, Kate went back and had to stand trial, but there was no way they could convict her because of the circumstances surrounding who she is. (2) The lies that the O6 are telling. (3) That Kate has a kid who happens to be Aaron, and she will do anything for him, even if it means giving up Jack. (4) That while Kate probably has a golden pass for Oceanic Air, she is willing to accept a deal that says she won't leave the state, because she doesn't want to go baaaaack. (I'm guessing she won't grow a crazy Jackbeard either, but that has more to do with personal preference than fear.)
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first class is cancelled and Lost is on tonight. I fucking love thursdays.
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No I meant that scene bothered me because everyone seemed to stumble on that spot in the jungle seemingly by accident. Not the actual Jack pulling the gun bit. Sorry I should have worded that better.
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...DOCTOR WHO casts Henry Ian Cusick as the Eleventh Doctor (David Tennant's replacement) for 2010. And if Steven Fucking Moffat ends up as the new showrunner, holy crap will that be glorious....
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maybe? <p><p> Hell, I thought the oddest thing about it was that they were by the cockpit, which we haven't seen since season 1. Shouldn't there still be months old bodies in there?
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Has Desmond LOST his catchphrase this season? He said Brother more times than the Hulkster before....BROTHER!
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I'm not sure if anyone else picked this up but I did and I started playing it last night. The game is supposed to be split up into 7 or 8 episodes like the show. I played through the first two (complete with previously on lost recaps, and "cliffhanger ending"). It only took me an hour to complete the first two episodes and probably should have took 15 to 20 minutes, but I was playing around. <p> While it is fun to be in the Lost universe, this isn;t really a game. All you do (so far) is walk around and pick things up and talk to people. <p> The character models range from dead on to completely laughable, most being the later. Only a few of the actual actors did voice work (i think Ben, Juliet, Sun,Desmond, and Claire) are original voices, the rest do not really sound much like the characters. <p> The game involves a guy named Elliot who wakes in the jungle with amnesia. He was on 815. His goal is to remeber who he is and get home. He experences some visions (like Jack and Hurley) of a girl he knows but doesnt know how. He is a journalist, so your first goal is to find your camera to jog your memory. <p> You walk around and ask different characters if they know you or if they know where your character is. You can ask them other stuff (using a list of prescribed questions) but you dont really get any answers. You do meet Kate and it launches your first flashback. You have pieces of a memory of Kate boarding the plane and you have to relive the scene and take a picture of the event to jog your memeory (this being Kate being in handcuffs. After you take the right photo you go back to present time and remeber that kate is a fugitive. <p> SPOILERS At the end of the first episode a guy approaches you in a suit and tie and asks for your camera, when you say you dont have it he punches you and says "I'm going to destroy that photo then kill you". He thens stomps your head and you black out. LOST End of first episode. <p> Episode 2 starts with Kate, Jack, and Charlie returning from the cockpit and being scared by the monster. You figure that your camera is in the cockpit but Jack wont let anyone go into the jungle. You play another flashback and realize that you have to lie to Jack to distract him. Once in the jungle Locke tells you about hiding in a thicket of trees which you will later use to escape from the smoke monster. You find Michael near a cave and he gives you a lighter. After traveling through the cave (and finding a dead polar bear) you make it out and reach the cockpit. After searching the cockpit and doing a stupide mini game you get your camera. <p> When you leave the cockpit you run into Ben and Juliet. They say something about "he might him or the one" and when you ask them who they are Ben replies "We're the good guys." Then Tom sneaks up and clubs you over the head and Juliet injects you with a needle. <p> LOST Episode two is done. <p> Overall the game is kinda boring so far, it was fun to talk to some characters but that gets old quick. I did manage to Gary Troupe myself by getting to close to the plane. As mentoined earlier there isn't much action yet, hopefully it will pick up. I'll keep ya posted if anything good happens.
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"Oh Red Tom, btw way many saw the myth/philosophy of Platos Cave and socraties in the Matrix. But the more it delved into this... "<p><p><p> Where did the Matrix ever mention anything whatsoever to do with Plato and Socrates? That was just typical, contemporary "seeing things that aren't actually there" angst from philsophically pretentious types...<p><p><p>
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I mentioned last TB there would be an auction for Hanso's logbook from the Black Rock. Looks lke we et said auction tonight!!!!!!! DOC JENSEN: Last season, you touted the Desmond-centric episode ''Flashes Before Your Eyes'' by saying that it ''uses the flashback device in a way you've never seen before — and will never see again.'' Does tonight's Desmond-centric outing, ''The Constant,'' uphold that pledge? DAMON LINDELOF: '''The Constant' upholds that pledge, unpledges it, then repledges it. Also, there's a really cool auction in it.''
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Wouldn't it be ironic if Locke was in the coffin? And the only person to show up at Locke's funeral was Jack, who cries? I imagine if Locke had a funeral in the states, no one would attend. We still don't know who the last 2 of the Oceanic 6 are, do we?
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Fount: I completely agree and am 100% on board with you - it was all exposition on how Kate is in the real world after the crash. In fact, except for how she got Aaron, there is no real other mystery surrounding her. We need episodes like this and I enjoyed it a lot. REDTOM: Teh Matrix is Philosophy 101. Seeing the light after being shielded in a cave your whole life??? It's Plato Plato Plato. TO ANYONE: Does anyone else think that the producers/writers are going to kill off someone that is actually one of the Oceanic 6 BEFORE they get off the island - just to fuck with us?
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How the hell do I make different paragraphs in a post???
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Yes we know, but I won't spoil it if you don't want to know.
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I've seen... flashes... bits and pieces of the future...<p> What I can tell you is that Desmond does NOT die.
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Put the letter "p" inside the "lesser than" and "greater than" characters (which are the two keys to the right of your keyboard's "M" key). It is simply the standard HTML code for a paragraph break. Type this out once to do a carriage return -- like this...<p>Type this out twice to do a carriage return and to insert a space between the two paragraphs -- like this...<p><p>And that is the fabled secret of the TB paragraphs.
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I've been wondering that my whole life. <p> Now I know. <p><p> Now I feel like I REALLY know.
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I'd be ok with them killing Juliet off. Ever seen "Running Scared" with Paul Walker? Ever since that flick, I can't stand that actress. She just creeps me out now. Plus, she was an Other, right? Jack can live without her. OK, AdrianVeidt. Spoil me--who are the other 2?
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Um... Can we NOT have spoilers as part of the actual headline, please? I get that AICN prides itself in having the first scoop on most things and generally takes care not to spoil things for those that don't want to be spoiled - but these LOST headlines are getting out of hand.
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I've always thought that it would be interesting if they killed someone in a flash forward. We would have to watch them alive on the island knowing that their death was eminent. Sort of like the Cjarlie and Desmond thing only there was chance Charlie would still live. Keeping this in mind, I believe Jin is in the coffin. Based on the info that one of those people die, it has to be Jin. If they went to the states they wouldn't know anyone, hence why no one was at the funeral. Also, they wouldn't have much money so hence, the poor black neighborhood. Why no other O sixers are there, I don't know. I guess Sun and Jin would have to die to make it work. <p> I dont know. Still waiting/ hoping for that future death.
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First, a warning to all reading this, there are no spoilers, but a lot of conjecture that could theoretically be spoiler-ish.<p> <p> I've been assuming that Jin gets off the island along with Sun. That would add up to the right number of people in the O6. We've been told that we will know all of the O6 before the end of the first group of episodes. Of the episodes remaining in that group, only Sun and Jin have -centric episodes and were on the plane. To me, that sounds like they are the last two. <p> <p> Then again, they could totally screw with us and have them get off the island and show us Jin dying during a flashforward. That would be weird. He'd still be on the show and still be around on the island, but we'd know he's dead later. I don't know if they'd do that or if my logic is correct about completing the O6, but it's an interesting idea.
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Jin and Sun, if everything we've been hearing is correct. We get their story in episode 7.
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Feb. 28, 2008, 11:18 a.m. CST
Yes Frodo T. Baggins...Desmond needs to say Brother more!
by StudioPlant69
Everything he says should be followed up with "brother". I'm gonna take a piss brother. You have cancer brother. Does this look infected brother? See it makes everything better...brother. gfy.
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Anyone care to speculate on who will get flah backs/flash forwards in the next five eps. <p> I'm assuming Jack, Locke, and Ben. Are safe bets. Maybe a Locke flash forward when he is still on the island? <p> I would love for a Richard or Danielle Russuo (god I cant spell). Or maybe Widmore, Abbadon, or other Dharma figure, would be cool. <p> It will be interesting which five they decide to use for the rest of the season. Knowing what the producers have said about the point of this season, we probably wont get Richard or any other crazy flashbacks this season. We shall see...
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I've been with the show until the last episode, when even I said, "For fuck's sake, just someone tell someone else what the fuck is going on!".
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So if time travel is a definate, then it's probably locked in that Adam and Eve are current cast members, right? Are Jack and Kate too obvious? And weren't there game pieces found alongside those dead bodies?
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The Des/Penny story has sort of become the underlying theme for the show. It's not the central story but it's the most important story I think. It's a redeeming story too and the show is all about redemption. Desmond didn't really do anything wrong, he's just on a bad luck streak courtesy of Penny's father. Desmond and Penny will be reunited on this show and Desmond will not die.
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Talk about unbridled enthusiasm. We gotta party, brother. Seriously, your post made me crack open VALIS this morning. I was planning on waiting just a few more days.
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LOST makes it up every season. <p> It's like Bushco throwing out whatever sticks then pretending that was meant all along. <p> Locke is still a closet Mo. He did have Miles in Gay sex cuffs. And he actively pursued the young males of the show. And the FBI honeytrapped him with a young man.
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Read previous post for "clues".
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Just sayin.
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But wasn't he nailing Al Bundy's wife for awhile?
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For Claire Bear! <p> It's a bummer, she's the only hott one left.....well Kate, but whatever.
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Aside from the fact that they didn't get some of the cast to come back for the voices, it's looking pretty sweet.<p> http://tinyurl.com/3ayyrt<p> Click "Trailer (HD)"
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If this is all one big test experiment, wouldn't guys like Sun's dad, Penny's dad, and Jack's dad be the kind of guys to take part in it? We got a lot of rich asshole daddies to content with here.
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What if Jack and the rest of the returnees have been "tampered" with and actually believe there were only 8 survivors and are not consciously lying?
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Is he a hand me down kid cause momma got the axe? Or is this a tribute baby from Sawyers loins? If he was a hand me down I dont think Jack would have a problem seeing him Brother. God I want to get off work from this shitty job and go home and watch last episode again Brother. Alright Des. Bring the pain with your I'll Rearange Any Consistant Thought Or Story Line This Season flash back Brother. ............BROTHER!
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Charlie. <p> The shows dynamic seems a little of with otu him.
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I got the Lost game yesterday, read my post above. I have played through the first two episodes, and it is a little underwelming. Hopefuly it picks up. Let me know if you have any questions on it.
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Saw the episode names, and thinking back to what they said about the person in the coffin being someone we had already "met", then #7 is where we meet someone..........<P> Could be a coincidence, I guess.
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I forsee Jin appearing from the future with a cool american accent. <p> And a samurai sword.
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it's impossible for some people, due to whatever Des was shooting up with or whatever else they come up, cannot leave the island. That if they do they die. That might tie into Walt's mom dying suddenly.
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However, keep this in mind:<P> Her psychic said "This child cannot be raised by another." Which can also be seen as "This child cannot be raised by an OTHER." Think about it.<p> At the very least, it gives the writer's an out for why Kate can raise the baby just fine.
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I really don't care whats going to happen, because the main thing I know is that Linus is still alive, and why no one just got it over with and killed him on the Island is just pathetic. The little kids with Flies had more balls then the survivors.
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Then what the hell is jack "sick of lying" about?
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Sayeed in the future clips, so knowing that, plus the fact this is a Desmond-centric episode means it's going to be great.
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...or maybe they have a sense of fairness, responsibility, humanitarianism, are grown up and don't behave as children, respect life, perfer trial by jury rather than execution, realize a good story line when they see it, understand plot development and character advancement......<P> But killing a main character that a lot of the story revolves around... that's good too.<P> geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz
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...of course he'd feel guilty about seeing the kid! OH WAIT...you guys haven't seen that happen yet...nevermind
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I think Kate's statement about "hearing that story so often, I'm starting to think you believe it" kind of kills that theory.
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There seems to be no other TV talkback right now, what ever happened to talk backs about the Sarah Coner Show? I think its been a lot better then Lost, better special effects and the story moves forward. Also Breaking Bad is the best show on right now. I am amazed at this point in the show that Lost has managed to stay on.
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The problem is that had the psychic never interfered, Aaron wouldn't have had a chance of being raised by an Other. It was his freak out about being raised by another, followed by his lie about the couple in LA that would adopt the baby and keep it safe that caused Claire to be on the island and Aaron to be in the prescence of Others. I have thought from the first season (and still think) that Aaron is either the ultimate good or ultimate evil in this show and that how/by whom he is raised makes all the difference.
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That's all fine and dandy...but I pray to God there's no "mechanism" shown...no "DeLorean" if you will...a device that makes this "time travel" possible. <P> I'm hoping they keep in relegated to the island's mysterious make up...and they stay away from scenes like a room with a chair in the middle and lots of technical gizmos attached to the person in the chair (ala The Matrix)...or blinding flashes of electricity that forms a ball around the subject (ala Terminator)... <P> I would just like the time travel to be organic...and not explained by sci-fi mumbo jumbo. <P> God, I wanna read those spoilers!! Is it 9pm yet?!
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Ive been enjoying this season enormously. I liken this season to seeing the aftermath to a hurricane, with so much chaos, confusion, and fear. Charlie dying summized the first three seasons perfectly. S4 has become painfully serious and its working.
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We've alredy seen time travel. It was Desmond in Flashes Before Your Eyes and it basically was just him (or his current consciousness, if you will) going back and reliving his life. No special mechanism required. (other than that super-imploding hatch, that is.) Since tonight is Des again, I'm guessing it's pretty much the same thing.
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I think he died in the hatch explosion, but came back to life as the island or something else incarnate, and that's why he was found COMPLETELY naked after the hatch explosion. I'm sure there are other details to this theory I'm working out, but let's go with this for now... thoughts?
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I agree, he might have been lying - but he definitely wanted Claire to crash land, I think they wanted us to know that much.
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I always thought that the implication was that he told Eko he was a fraud to get him out of there. He claimed that the whole issue with his daughter was made up, but she then gave Eko a message from Yemi that seemed to prove that the story was real.
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Could it be possible he was naked because he really did time travel? Just like in Terminator movies when they time travel they arrive naked
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Now that idea makes my head hurt.
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I love Desmond. And miss Charlie.
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What? It works for BSG, why not "Lost"?
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Based on that, and maybe they deleted it since it isn't true to the plotline, but perhaps the others planned the whole crash - they WANTED to bring people to the island. Clearly, this is a well-researched theory, but this supports it...
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But why would he cough up all that cash by telling Claire, "YOU...and You alone must raise this baby"? <P> Seems to me he DID have a true psychic vision...that possibly even surprised himself...It's possible he NEVER had any real psychic ability until Claire walked into his office.
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Apparently the death that occurs before the end of Episode 7, is one of the Oceanic 6. Which means it happens in a flashforward. And seeing as the next flashforward up to bat is Jin and Sun, odds are one of them is going to bite it in the future.
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was the saddest few moments of this show and many I have seen over the ears. The music, desmond, the water and everything perfectly put together. Charlie & Desmond are by far the most popular characters it seems and for good reason. They're decent, but flawed people who deserve better than fate gives them.
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not ears. Oh and I'm not ashamed to admit I cried at the end of Through The Looking Glass 2. Every time I watch it.
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Lost needs to bring these two stories back again and give us the next piece about why these two children were (are) so important. For awhile, children seemed to have such an emphasis in stories that I thought in the end the central story would have something to do with them. But like those pesky detractors have said, the show seems to have dropped that thread. I hope they pick it up again.
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C'mon, spill it. Why does Jack push Claire out of the helicopter? At least try to come up with something somewhat plausible please...
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Until bliss. And answers. I hope.
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as Chaaaalie found out, Claire is a pricktease. "I'm only your HALF brother Claire! Now get down on your rescuers manhood, bitch! No?" Thump....."Happy landings, pricktease"
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tonight, I will have it up under edshrinker on The Pirate Bay by 11pm. torrent will be created in wmv, no commercials, and seeded immediately by me. For ALL of you immensely intelligent lovers of LOST. That's 11pm eastern.
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I think Des' conscience has traveled fom the past to the future. For example, once on the boat he doesn't recognize Sayid or Frank and is clueless as to how he just appeared on a boat. Could this be a past Des having a flash forward to the freighter???
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Feb. 28, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST
High school mock trial ruined courtroom scenes for me forever.
by phool2056
The ones last week were pretty off. You can't approach the witness without permission from the judge--the bailiff will TACKLE you. Prosecution makes its case first, meaning prosecution witnesses are called before defense witnesses, so Kate's mother would have been up before Jack. "Do you love her" as a question may be relevant, but the actual objection there would be "vague ad ambiguous" because there's no clear legal definition of "love." Obviously some creative license is fine, but except for the order of witnesses thing, a lot of these could have been fixed with an extra line or two of dialogue. A quick "permission to approach" isn't so hard, and forcing the prosecutor to come up with a more clinical definition of love could have actually improved that moment: "Do you love her?" Objection! "I'll rephrase. Is the well-being of the defendant important to you?" etcetera.
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(poom)
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following on from last week TB re. what to send to ABC if they cancelled Lost, how about a another Q. In the LOST Universe, what single Q would you like answered above all? <p> Mine would be what the deal with the four toes statue. <p> anybody got a idea of just one Q that want answering.
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good topic. the four-toes statue would be high on my list. let's see, to choose only one I guess I would ask a two part a)what's evangeline lilly's cell phone number and b)would she fuck me? I jest. but seriously, this is prolly too obvious, but i NEED to know what is going on with Cerberus the Smoke Monster.
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That would be mine. <br>Or wait.. maybe "who are the natives?"
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i actually agree with you. pisses me off too.
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was there a specific comment on the show that referred to "the natives." if so, who said it and when. i know there is evidence on the island of people there very early on (the ruins and the 4 toes) but can anyone help me on anything said about "natives" specifically.
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were mentioned a few times in Ben's flashback where he offed the dharma initiative. They were "the others" to Dharma.
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Richard Alpert. Apparently.
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i know but i thought they were more specifically the "hostiles" I guess what I am asking is, was there ever a time when the natives were referred to seperately from the hostiles that were fucking with dharma. because the hostiles, imo, were mos def NOT the Islands original inhabitants. MAYBE they were descended from the natives, but I don't think the Hostiles are the Natives
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But I believe in the Ben flashback both "hostiles" and "natives" were used. And Kelvin Inman definitely used one of those words too... shit I'm confused as to who said what. Someone wanna check? <br><br> I don't see why we can't assume Alpert's people aren't the original inhabitants of the island/descendents of the 4 toed statue builders/natives. We do know that Richard has been around for a LONG time and doesn't age.
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She's a genetically engineered cyborg... <p> with a bomb... <p> IN HER RIBCAGE!!!
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I'm officially disowning you as a fan of this show for that. It's unacceptable to pretend to be a true fan when you're really a shipper in disguise.
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So, was he paid to get Claire onto a plane and sent to LA or onto *that* plane and sent to LA. If it is the latter, perhaps the Others knew of Claire and the crash and planned ahead. (Indicating that he is a fraud who had one true prophecy, maybe) Or maybe it was just him talking and trying to convince Eko to leave his family in peace. Or as someone else suggested, maybe the scene was cut because it went against the canon of the show. I don't know.
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As in relationship. A pejorative referring to people who (using wikipedia's words) "support a fictional romantic relationship, usually on the internet." You know, Jaters and Skaters. (I feel dirty having just typed those terms.) <p> <p> Besides, we all know the important question is whether Jack ends up with Juliet.
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According to the last 2 weeks of TV Ratings published in USA today, LOST ranked 7th overall and 6th in the 18-4o whatever demographic.<P> Thsi show will not be cancelled with numbers like that.
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Feb. 28, 2008, 2:40 p.m. CST
They're making it painfully obvious that Claire's in the coffin
by Sick Fixx
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If Claire is in the coffin, that would cause several problems. (1) That puts Through the Looking Glass before Eggtown. If that's the case, Jack has made a remarkable recovery from his bearded oxycontin days and has stopped saying that they need to go back. (2) That also would make it odd for anyone to believe that Aaron is Kate's son, since he would have been with his mother when they came back until she died. (Plus, Kate took her baby, but refused to go to the funeral?)<p> <p> While Claire may be dead, I'm pretty sure she's not the one in the coffin.
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Too late. Sorry.
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Who said I'm watching tonight? Kate's arrest was very underwhelming. No leg irons, no shackles. Just flimsy handcuffs. But nothing short of a ballgag would have satisfied me.
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Sorry, to partially disagree, but the flash-forward in 'Looking Glass' does take place after 'Eggtown'. In fact it's after all the other flash-forwards, except possibly Sayid's.<p><p> However, I do agree that Claire ain't in the coffin - although she might die.
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I say Locke. Clair doesnt get off the island. Clearly there is people left behind. I shall dub them. The Left Overs. Kate has a misscarrage. Clair prolly dies. Kate addopts Aaron. IE the forshadowing from last episode about How Shes Not So Good With Kids...."You should try it sometime". And I would like to think Sawyer dies in some heroic way by saving a few people. Or just Kate. And she sucks him off during his last few moments. Desmond watches from a far and says "Brother, its aboot Tyme. Im outa here now brother." And poof hes naked again and dives into the water to his magic sail boat and drifts away. Oh and Hurley fucked Clair and squished here. Goes crazy because hell never have a dime like that again. & Charlie keeps appearing to him at convienant stores saying "Whyd you fuck me gurl?"
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Didn't the obituary say "he" somewhere in it - meaning it's a man?<p><p> My guess is that the man in the coffin is either Ben, Locke, or Michael.<p><p> Ben has changed before, evidenced by the several passports, and we know he makes it back. Maybe he dies after what we saw in Sayid's flash-forward - who would want to go to his funeral? That's right nobody.<p><p> Locke fits the original obituary better and nobody would go to his funeral either.<p><p> I think Michael has changed his name and we will soon 'Meet' him again. He could used another name as well and again nobody, but Walt would go to his funeral.<p><p> Now, someone please tell me I'm wrong - cause that's the point of these talkbacks right?
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I agree that TTLG is likely the latest flashforward. What I was saying was that *if* Claire is in the coffin, *then* that meant that TTLG had to be before Eggtown, which makes no sense. Sorry, I wasn't clear.
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The obit definitely indicated that it was a man. What we don't know is if the obit was meant to be seen and is canon or if it was simply a prop made to look like an obit and the propmaster had no knowledge of what was supposed to be there. I don't think we've heard confirmation either way from DL/CC.
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Possible Spoiler********** I read somewhere that whoever was in the coffin hailed from New York and left behind a teenage son. Strong evidence for Michael. Also I'm pretty sure that it is not Claire because Kate would actually care about her dying and going to her funeral.
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That makes sense, and I agree with you now 100% on the Eggtown/Claire thing.<p><p> I've also thought about the obituary, and agree that it might not be canon. At the same time they could have ensured nobody could read it at all instead of just the little snippets that were visible - just my two cents.
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Best of the bunch. I picture it being pronounced with a long "o" and silent "e" at the end like "antelope".
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indifference. i don't know what you're talking. anyway i don't fucking care...
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i only skimmed your above message about my "willing indifference" when i wrote my last post, but i just read the post fully. that really pissed you off, huh? you gonna squirt some?
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You really love each other. Like Hurley & Sawyer. Awww. Yall cute
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Thanks for stopping by, old sport, and classing the place up a bit!<BR> <BR> If LOST is my guilty pleasure, i have to balance it out by watching some Japanese Surrealism and raeding the complete translated works of Nabokov! You inspire me!
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does everyone on here hate you?
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all is well. now let's gang up on sick fixx. i jest, i jest
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if the show itself didn't turn him off, you guys sure have now :) i'm almost feeling bad for him. almost...I remember the nuttiness from a few weeks ago
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node # for the LOST talkback we had that lasted from May 07 to what was it Node...Dec 07...or Jan 08?
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Ben to me fits better, no one would go to his funeral. Jack went because he discovers that Ben was right about the island and the people on the ship.
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lastest from the season finale in may (24th if memory serves correct)2007 until January 2008 when it was shut down due to hitting the big 10k...but luckily the discussions and debate continued on anotehr Lost talkback just opened concerning a Matthew Fox interview, and we were able to jump homes until the season premier...<p> in those 8 months of glorious Lost debates, general geeking out and numerous fantastic theroies we were free of assholes mostly...every now and again a hater landed in shouted something about Heroes and buggered off again, but the discussions stayed on topic and lost centric..then when season 4 started these talkbacks were (are) flooded with assholes,,,,i'll name no names(CapJack) who decide to try and spoil episodes for everyone; and other people no names again (SF); who just talk shit and try to start mundane arguments and take the focus away from this great show...the days of room 23 are long gone...<p> to my room 23 pals, sorry aint been about, my constant battle with poor(not seroius or anything) health mixed with band commitments and work(U know all to well Big E) has made my post count severly drop...I try to read what everyone says but am not able to contribute as much as I can......but its good to see the old gang, Node, RB, PB, Big E and others still fighting the good fight....<p> I'll hopefully get to see the episode somestage tomorrow(god bless the internet) and will hopefully be in to get ur views on it...
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means only one thing 'Brutha'..<p> more 'HOLY FUCK' moments...I love that man....namaste
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of pompous, name-dropping, culture-flouting, nonsense that went on for 50 or so worthless posts by one individual. Then the usual "the show sucks, I'm above it, won't watch it, but spend 3 hours posting here" type behavior. So I ask you, would you welcome said poster back gleefully? <p> Desmond Hume...and...Penelope Widmore <p> Hummore? Deselope would be my favorite. Jacket (Juliet and Jack) is a close 2nd.
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Our Brutha was a Brother. Oh irony. Soldier, Yachtsman, Monk, button-pushing hermit, stud to a rich cutie pie, time-traveler....brutha has lived full life so far! All glory Desmondo!
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would never get away with Aaron as son if Claire made it back to the world with her baby. Mum and baby do not make it back together. And remember Kate's reaction when Jack asked about her going to the funeral "why would I go???" <p> Real shit would have to occured to make Kate despise Claire so much she wouldn't consider going to her funeral. NOT Claire. Same with Ben, but in this case, why would Jack even SUGGEST Kate go? Has to be a person of importance to them, but there was a faling out. Sawyer is not an O-6er. Michael made it back and has an alias (maybe Kevin Johnson???). SO would Walt. Hoffs-Drawler Funeral home was in that neighborhood for a reason - we know this about our writers. Gotta be Michael. Kate wouldn't react that way about Walt. Locke would never come back and I doubt you'd see Jack cry over him. It's a he, that and the neighborhood and no turnout - can't be Juliet. <p> Process of elimination folks. Gotta be Michael.
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"touches self"
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Darlton promised...WE WILL KNOW who is in the coffin before this season is over. <p> My one question: explain the science behind the Orchid video from comic-com (BUnny 15..."don't let them touch!!!) That would go a long way to solving the biggest island mysteries. <p> My question from before - thanks for all the answers. I couldn't think of anything more clever than you guys. I like the generic food drop (with little dharma symbols drawn on). Maybe print up a shitload fake Oceanic golden tickets to litter ABC's lawn with.
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Turns out the island is really an Alternate reality. When you leave it changes your reality for the person that you've become on the Island. Very very weird. at the end of the game you leave the island only to wake up back on the island RIGHT after the crash, but things going on around you are different. Similar to desmond's flashes.
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I'm not quite sure I understand. So there is really no payoff for leaving the island? YOu just wake back up like its groundhog day? Mirrors some theories bounced around here about the show originally being called "The Circle" and the plot device described therein. So glad the show has not taken that direction. How much you wanna guess that WAS a rejected plotline though??
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The man in the coffin is John Lantham. How do I know this? Because the newspaper article says so. If you guys would stop wasting your time theorizing and start wasting your time looking at screencap websites then you would know this. Here is what the article reads: <p> "The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft. Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening." <p> So who the fuck is John Lantham? Probably Michael. <br> * Michael is from New York <br> * Michael has reason to use an alias <br> * Michael has a teenage son <br> * No one would attend the funeral because everyone who knew Michael thinks he is dead. <br> * Jack would feel like attending the funeral because it fits his character. Kate wouldn't because it fits her character. <br> * Jack says he is neither friend nor family because Jack is somewhat famous and an investigation to Jack's relationship with Lantham might reveal he is Michael to the public, which is something Jack does not want. <br> * Whoever is in the coffin is not what drove Jack to suicide. He was clearly distraught even before reading that article. But it did seem to affirm whatever bad feeling he had and need to go back. <p>The other possibility is that the man in the coffin truly is John Lantham. A character yet to be introduced. <p> So can we stop the whole Locke is in the coffin/Ben is in the coffin insanity? Those theories make very little sense.
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Eddie Dean of New York. <p> Raise a Nozz-a-la for the fallen gunslinger. <p> Poppins will be served at the wake.
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If you were to time travel, one of the tricky bits would be to travel to a time where the Earth was relative in position to where you are when you leave the 'present'. <p>Because of its hurtling through space, it wouldn't necessarily be in the same position that it was when you left. The entire galaxy spins in a big circle, so if you were trying to send an object into the past, you'd have to find a space AND time that corresponds to the time you left. So a sending yourself back a year ago to the second, and you might be on the other side of the planet if you couldn't direct yourself.<p>Say the polar bear was sent into the past, but the first 'Earth' space/time it could interact with was waaaaay back when the 'Earth' was in the same position it was when it was sent. Just an idea about how the polar bear ended up in the past.
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Don't be an ass with your tone. That will get you nowhere around here and I'd hate to see Node get frothy. To take the snideness off your comment, TPTB have stated the newspaper article was a prop and not intended to be read. Any clues therein MAY be written into the show now, but it was not a hint to be analyzed. It was very much a red herring. However - now that clever ones have managed to draw all that out of the prop, our wonderfully creative LOST team may very well give us a payoff. Or just explain it away as a cover story. Or ignore it altogether as a red herring. I am moderately polite - I hope you suffer not the wrath of others that, well, dislike your tone. Just friendly advice - enjoy the TB.
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Zombie Luciano Pavarotti. Season 5 will be all about they fit him into that coffin.
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would actually make sense - if Jack felt Ben was his only way Baaaack to the island. Kate's reaction would be spot on - though why Jack would even ask if she went would be weird. We know Ben is around playing dangerous games with Sayid. No friends. Hoffs-Drawler maybe just has a contract with the city for unclaimed corpses. It IS possible, though not likely.
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Ok, first off, take this first part with a grain of salt because it's something my brother told me regarding the statue with 4 toes. My brother said he saw an interview with JJ Abrams on tv at the end of s.2 and Abrams said that the statue was just something he put in the ep. to throw people off and fuck with 'em. I've never seen this interview so I can't say if it's for sure, but it sounds like something Abrams would do, since he's kind of a pretentious prick like that. <p> The business with Aaron being with Kate. I don't know why everyone assumes that Claire is dead and Aaron is with Kate voluntarily. Keep in mind that everything in the flash forwards we still don't know what's happening with them and how the storylines on the island play out to get the characters from the present to their storyline in the future. I think 1 of 2 things are happening with Kate and Aaron, either Kate was leaving the island and Claire gave Aaron to her in order to give him a life off the Island. This would explain why Jack does not want to see him, b/c it's a visible reminder that they left everyone behind. OR Kate stole Aaron from Claire before she left and Jack never agreed with this decision and thus never wants to see him. It's just a thought and is obviously unfounded but so is everything else in this TB. <p> Let me know what you guys think about this, love everything you guys are saying about the show though, giving me lots to think about/anticipate for tonights episode.
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I was going for a kind of joking or facetious tone. Sorry if it came out snide. I'm the last person who would get nasty over something as trivial as this.<p> Anyway, if the article was just a prop then I would need to see the source where that was confirmed.
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Maybe Dexter crossover ep. <p> He'd cut hm up into 5 hefties - distribute neaty into wood box. <p> Fuck I love that show. Knew NOTHING about it. Downloaded seasons one and two on a whim after seeing it on CBS. THAT is awesome serialized TV...hooked me in like Angel season 3. And is close to Lost as far as really getting me hyped for the next ep. God how I yearn to be able to just download LOST Seasons 4-6 and just take a weeks vacation, whitecrosses, Diet Mountain Dew, a piss bucket and frozen pizzas. Once again - touching self. <p> Lost lovers - I HIGHLY recommend UNEDITED/Showtime version of Dexter. 9/10.
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Good man. I've learned the hard way one must be cognizant of tone or things can escalate...and that's no fun, hey? Guys - can we help Dapper out? Links? I will begin my search. Gotilk, 4we8 - I know you guys have something...
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"The Truth about the Newspaper Clipping Producers have said over and over to disregard the newspaper clipping, as they are going to re-write it. " All i got for now
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I agree with edshrinker...Dexter can be bought relatively cheaply now on DVD, and the first season is just brilliantly done. Even the watered down CBS series is better than nothing on that network...<p>If you want something that the Lost producers loved and decided to sort of emulate, should look at an old BBC show called The Prisoner. FANTASTIC show with a really BAD ending. Patrick McGoohan should do an ep of LOST.
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http://tinyurl.com/22862j <p> Just scroll down a little bit to The Truth about the Newspaper Clipping
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Hmm. Pre-cum. I'm shuddering. Maybe a little enhanced EggyTown for fun, <p> THANKS micturatingbenjamin!!! I seed so much good TV, I'll turn around and download some for a change. Looking forwad to it! Pass the time between Thursdays. Don't forget - if any of ya'llcan't get the ep by 11 pm US/Eastern Time...The Pirate Bay. Edshrinker. wmv (small file size/moderate quality) file. Or just search Lost s04e05 <p> I do this for NO OTHER REASON but for the love of the show and my wish to share to those who can't access it as early as I can. Good Karma. I've been doing the same things with Green Bay Packer games this year - share the, albeit aborted, joy.
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Have you seen Dexter season 2 yet? A little different- but IMO jst as engaging as season 1. And Lila. GoodGOdAlmightyGooglyMoogly. British, darkhair, sexy beyond belief. "Pardon my tits" Beautiul line. Best Lila line - after Dex asks "What step was that?" after a scrogging....... <p> (W/gloriously sexy acccent)"The naughty one". <p> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Ben's man on the boat is Michael?
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Wow. That would actually be pretty fucking cool.
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PKD mentions CS Lewis and Minkowski in the book. He mentions a place where time turns into space. He mentions a black iron prison that is seen when the past, present and future are superimposed on each other.
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I was walking to the SCI-FI Section at Barnes & Noble and on my way a black book with the word 'BORGES' was on the cover. It caught my eye and I stared at it while walking by.<br><br>I got to the sci-fi section and the first PKD novel I pulled out was VALIS. On the back it said something about the US having their very own BORGES on their hands. One of the themes in the book has to do with coinciences just like I had just experienced.<br><br>Get this. The book Saywer was reading was written by a good friend of Borges and the first cover used for the book was illustrated by Borges' sister.<br><br>Is the universe fucking with me? Or am I tapped in? Probably just crazy like PKD. Can't wait for Desi's episode tonight!!!
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Great article here about how the Cinema has replaced the church in moder culture. <br><br> http://tinyurl.com/353ym5
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Anyone see the 1979 Disney flick "The Black Hole"? I suspect that the island is in essence like the spaceship Cygnus in that movie, literally perched at the edge of..something. Whether it's a wormhole, a "wrinkle in time" or some other type of temperal anomoley, it explains why many of the some of the "others" don't seem to age among other things. Thoughts?
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Good theory Yeti. What is really amazing about it is that you made a reference to "The Black Hole" i thought I was the only person to have seen that movie.
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Let me say it this way. I love these shows (past/present NOT distinguished). IN the late 90's - today, my top shelf stuff(no particular order): <p> Lost, X-Files, B5, Farscape, BSG, 24, Firefly, Arrested Development, Angel, several seasons of Buffy....and I'm CERTAIN one or two will opo in my head as boarderline top shelf. So that gives you my "tastes". Lots of Sci-Fi. What I guess for being raised on Star Wars, Star Trek, Space 1999(SO Underrated tho unrealistic). <p> So is Angel worth your time? Putting a personal Whedonbias aside, ABSOLUTELY. By season 3, they had surpassed the mothership (Buffy)and began a mytharc that went on for the next two season or or less. And what a ride. Season 1-3 is absolute bliss. 4 was just ok, a little annoying with a character in particular that will just grate on you. Season 5 is a game-changer, enter Spike and exit annoying characters, and the best wrap-up season I could ever imagine. Wanted it to go on - but as it is a WONDERFUL job tying it all up. Whew. Any questions? Would download it - and have - just to re-watch it. I would buy the box set if I had the disposable cheddar for such things.
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GodsDamn it NO edit button
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where the entire series is actually a dream, is they always have some open-ended winking-at-you ending, that always has some guy saying, seasons later, "it's all just Desmond's dream!"
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Just missed the opening, anything big besides the helicopter going down, what was desmond yelling?
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You are truly fucked now.
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plus an hour of Lost. awesome.
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The cg looked better.
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Body swapping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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and the IronMan chord was fucking perfect
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No I've figured it out, time is weird, he can't remember the island and is now traveling around in time...
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In the past knows what's going on (kinda). Des on the freighter is (in his mind) Army Des and has NO CLUE what is happening to him. Consciousness has switched between the 2 Desmonds. THAT IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wondering if since Desmond was on the left side and Siayd was on the right, did that part of the chopper pass outside of whatever 'time corridor' that they were supposed to be following? consequently unsticking him in time?
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that's all
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Iron Man trailer was kinda of a mixed bag.
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swapping conciousness
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Man, the election can't get here soon enough. I'm sick of these ads.
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My favorite TV shows are probably Twin Peaks, Sports Night, Arrested Development, Seinfeld, Lost, and Angel. I consider Angel season 3 and 4 to have some of the best season long arc stories ever seen. Yes, Angel does get a bad rap for the genre, and being associated with Buffy which was associated with teen girls to begin with, but Angel is fantastic. Very, very good. Also, this episode of Lost is fine so far, but it doesn't feel like a season four episode, if that makes any sense, and with Cuse and Lindelof writing, that's unusual
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nevermind, body swap it is.
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Iggy, right? I didn't know he was still alive. cool.
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We have too much beautiful LOST to tool with now so I'll just say this re: Angel. Like most shows, it took a bit of time season 1 to get its legs and to establish their identity apart from Buffy. <p> It took until they killed off a main character, brought in others (God I love Julie Benz), to really get in flow. They fall victim to a silly alternate reality mini-arc, but that was only a couple eps. When Darla (Julie B.)turns up - this show becomes completely addictive.
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And a look of "uh-huh, exactly" by Danny. Hey Des - drop by the next time you are in 1996. How cool is that.
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Because I need You to find me.
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Brilliant.
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No way. While the quantum theory I think you are getting into is the "multiverse" can exist in ANY and EVERY time/place...I don't see it in this case - yet. There are 2 times and 2 Desmonds and 2 consciousnesses. The past Des' (Army Des) consciousness knows nothing about the future...suddenly that consciousness is in Freighter Des' body and he goes WTF!!!!!!!!! <p> Freighter Des' consciousness gets zapped into Army Des. Forst thing he wants to do is find Pen-aheee. reasonable.
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Same Earth, different times. If you jump forward in time you won't remember the time you missed. The only question is where the current you is. This is a near perfect episode. Of any TV series. Ever. The only thing missing is Ben being punched.
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Yet another reference to Faraday's memory issues.
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there by creating an alternate timeline, I get the 2 Desmond thing, almost like "The Butterfly Effect"
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No Mullet on Danny! hIS FRONT HAIR IS PULLED BACK! You can escape the "mulleting" by growing ALL your hair out one length.
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Gods Damn this show is awesome. The mouse did what he WILL train it do later. Holy Fuck.
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FUCKING AWESOME!!!!
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his past is changing and those events are now folding into his present memory. I think that is why he is staring into space.
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So long, Future Boy!
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is one smart boy.
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Lost cemented the 'greatest show ever' award tonight. But they better have a damned good explaination of all this or I'm gonna be pissed! lol
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I can't stand all the breaks. I want more of this awesomeness and I want it now!
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A younger Doc Brown <p> 1.21 Gigawatts!!!!!!!!!
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BEST TV SHOW EVER. FOCK.
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to any Lost complainers in the talkback. Go find an Eli Stone talkback, this episode said fuck you and your camel Brotha hello??? Ahh.... they must have all left.
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all sucked until today. Faraday had potential, but now HOLY F*CK Daniel Faraday ladies and gentlemen!!! And the people on the boat have been on the island before!!! Faraday has set himself firmly on the top of the list as Best New Character of Season 4!!!!! <br> 1) Locke<br> 2) Ben<br> 3) Juliette<br> 4) DOC FARADAY!!
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Ben's spy? And if Penny didn't know about any ship how could she be calling the ship? And it has to be penny's father financing this right? Would explain how she knows how to reach it.
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a list of best new character of each season...
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he's such an asshole :)
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Eloise!
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IT was a sworn PROMISE. So by telling him to find him, Future Danny simply set Des on a course of action he was always supposed to take...probably except calling Pen-aheee. The universe can self correct throught that. But it would be tougher had she said YES and they met. But the uniiverse continues along its path..... <p> Catatonic for 75 minutes = 5 minutes to Des. <p> And what is Fucked up is Danny UNDERSTANDS ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ah, back when I still had hopes and dreams.
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Is this simply the standout episode of Lost, or one of the best episodes of TV in the last 20 years. Ranking up there with "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose," Wiseguys "Blood Dance," and Charles S. Dutton's episode of Homicide.
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but it's damned possible
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My brain is time travelling and nose is bleeding. I need a Percocet. <p> THERE IS MY FUCKIN AUCTION! HERE COMES THE LOGBOOK!
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projected from the main deflector dishes in all time lines. Or stop them. Or create a static warp shell. But do something!
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is a prick. Shriveled up piece of shite.........but at least he gives out his daughter's digits.
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the auction piece???? It was supposed to be the Black Rock/Hanso's logbook.
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I mean... wow. This is intense.
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Feb. 28, 2008, 8:50 p.m. CST
I need a nuclear reaction to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of elec
by BigGoozoo
So if Daniel=Doc, who is Biff?
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minkowski is not likely ben's spy lol. damn When Farady mentioned the constant & Desmond reached a disconnected number... wow
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was quite a cameo. Ugh, ptht, lmpk, frmp.... <p> Nose Bleeds <p> Seizure <p> Head falls to the side <p> <p> "Thank you so much folks! Don't forget to tip your waitresses! Be here all the week...or not".
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i am assuming Desmond ends up in the brig bcz of his crazy shennanigans while on leave
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Live Desmond... Liiiiive!!!! That nosebleed doesn't look too good though. Fuck the show's almost over!!! Where did the time go!? (pun intended to the max)
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This eppy is tits.
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crazy thinking that des crossing over and screwing with his own conciousness is what puts him in the brig... but that would definately mean that it was "supposed" to happen...
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UNTIL THAT FUCKING GREY'S ANATOMY BULLSHIT SAP SONG FILLER COMMERCIAL. Now I must puke.
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does Minkowski end up in a shitty sitcom called Perfect Strangers when he goes back to the past.....Desmond better not die or we need to start sending bloody tissues too ABC in disapproval
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I loooooove Pen-aheeeee! <p> Don't do it Des. Don't...........
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He tells her about the island, she starts to find it. Not two realities, a self-fulfilling paradox... Course Correcting!!!
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damn this episode rules!
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for eight years. How I have wanted to say that to so many women.
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Answer the phone! It's Christmas Eve!
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...She knows, because of him, but why has she only searched for 3 years? that means she waited for 5 years.
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The same world Line that is starting to self-correct. She said Charlie's name How did she know Charlie's name? <p> NOSEBLEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I still think Kate's house's exterior looks like a Mike Brady design...
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what did that shit say? Desmond Hume will be my constant?
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No question about it.
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OK - Charlie did say his name. My fault. But this Episode - if that Penny/Des exchange was.... if you have ANY heart. Wow.
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Wow.
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play Lost back to back
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Welcome back, Desmond. Help the Doc. Screw Locke. You're my new hero.
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how is the ending not a paradox
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cool episode
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I'm bawling my eyes out. What a powerful episode.
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Kinda like drinking Orange Juice after brushing your teeth...
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AGREEMENT in my own mind. THIS the best fucking show on television. Ever.
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Constant BADASS!!!!!!
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Holy fuck.
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and have it's retarded baby Aaron. I swear to you. That was the best ending. I love Desmond.
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oh man what a ride. Kudos to the writers. This adds to all the Des episodes which have always been top notch. Behind Locke the best character although Locke has been kinda weak this season. One wish for the series for me is that Desmond and Penny reunite. Wow
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AWESOME! UNBELIEVABLE! Best Lost episode!
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And the other guy die... Mmmmmmm
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I feel at ease that Desmond talked to his constant and hence will not die now. I would lose sleep otherwise bcz the best episodes of Lost are with that Brotha. When I do shots on thurs.....It will be to Desmond Hume
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my concerns abuot this season of LOST - how its not as emotionally involving as before... I'm wrong. Thank GOD. I am very wrong. That was incredible.
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HOME FUCKING RUN!!!! INCREDIBLE EP!!
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...for a whole lot of nothing. So, am I the asshole for not really liking this one? Sorry fellas...I just don't want freaking time travel in my LOST.<P>That being said, I do love the character of Desmond. I just have to roll my eyes every time they run with this time-displacement stuff.
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"Desmond is my constant"
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awesome. awesome. awesome. awesome.
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Oh SHIT moments. <p>Count my vote for best this season, by far. <p>Faraday and Des. <p>Fightin' crime. <p>Takin' names.
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awesome episode. just effin sweet. but how does 1996 desmond not remember his little voyage to the future anymore?
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One hundred percent great fucking television. I cried like a fucking 2 year old with a skinned knee. This episode was fucking amazing. Desmond is one of my faves and this was just incredibly cool. No matter what happens, this was awesome as shit.
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In addition to my earlier post, Desmond will end up in jail for his crazy antics displayed tonite while on leave. Now we have to watch his earlier ep bcz we know now while in jail he knew about the island which is why he has the book that he is saving to read until he dies
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best analogy ever
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he was able to contact Penny. Contacting Penny allowed his mind, which was split/inversed/transferred to the past through extreme electromagnetic pulse, to become "anchored". As Faraday said, she was his constant. When he talked to her, the anomaly corrected itself. Minkowski didn't have that, and so he finally died.
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i would guess that the reason 96 desmond doesnt remember because since he wouldnt understand the island yet he thinks it was all just a dream he had
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And who opened the locked door? ..Walt?
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To figure out how the part of penny and desmond's story from 1996 impacted the storyline told in "flashes before your eyes"
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It really depends on whether you give a shit about Des as a character or not, man. Fuck, I don't care about time travel one way or another. It's just fucking groovy as shit with the whole Desmond arc. I thought it was pretty fucking cool. A waste of the guy from Short Circuit and Hackers though...WHERE'S ZOE MOTHERFUCKIN' BELL?!!! Anyways, you say tomato I say tomato...shit, that doesn't really work in print.
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We're going to need to watch that again.
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Do you watch these episodes or jerk off during them? He was 1996 Desmond until he talked to Penny... his consciousness was jumping between the past and future, or you could even say the present and future and present and past. Once he talked to her, he disconnected from the two again... one in the past and one in the future.
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A Charlie Saves! T-shirt.
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in an assortment of colors. :D
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Who will win the World Series in 2004? $$$$$$$$
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if i had to guess im gonna go with Kevin Johnson
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When Sayid fixed the radio, he should have done so by getting a battery from Locke at the back of a winding maze cave, and then used a series of different fuses to redirect the precise amount of electricity from one end of the control panel to the other. That would have felt more "Lost".
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The reason Faraday wrote "Desmond will be my constant" is that if he gets stuck in the anomaly, Desmond is someone that he can look up in both time periods. If his future self gets thrown into the past, then he will remember desmond. If his past self gets thrown into the future, he will have that note to guide him. smart. The only question I have is, has this already happened to him? Some signs point to yes - his playing card test of last week, for instance.
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find a young Britney Spears or Lindsay Lohan, fuck them, and wait for cash cow to start paying off.
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That was a pretty sweet ride. Desmond & Penny = Adam & Eve? No? anybody? And this all happened because of the radiation that Desmond was exposed to after the hatch imploded. And yes, Kevin Johnson did indeed open door number one.
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You know, I thought this show was a bunch of hype, and that was that. I didn't understand the reason for all the hoopla...But since ABC did an amazing thing and put every single episode online for free, I caught up with the story in about a week of watching (and truly after the third episode, I was hooked through the bag like Eddie Dean)...Re-reading the Gunslinger series again...I want the guy who plays Ben Linus to play The Man In Black. I want Dominic Monaghan or the guy who plays Sawyer to play Eddie Dean...and someone said Hugh Jackman as Roland...that would work..but Damn, having Monaghan playing Dean would be fucking awesome. And he's already a buddy of JJ Abrams...(Abrams is in talks right now with King to do the series...He has my vote to do it as a series on HBO or a buncha movies)....LOST rules the fucking television school. I make time for LOST now. I'm a Lostie, I guess. Damn these writers.
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I guess that's a possibility, however i don't think anyone could ever forget something as vivid and as weird as that even if it was a dream...like once he ended up on the Island pushing the button with Kelvin, don't you think he might remember that weird little event a few years ago that seemed to prophesize himself being stuck on an island? I could accept Razorback's explanation that once the time traveling became stopped because Des found his constant then somehow his knowledge of the whole swapping became disconnected...but I'm pretty sure 2004 Des remembered the whole experience because he referenced the little visit to Penny when he finally reached her....WHEW... god damn time travel... what the hell is a jiggawat?
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...his past seld is anticipating becoming LOST IN TIME as well.<p>I love this show lots.
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That might be true. A good way for an episode to end on...Michael's boat reveal.
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seld = self up there.
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It would be interesting to watch "Flashes before your eyes" and then this episode back to back. Darlton are smart enough to make sure that these episodes are copacetic.
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...Locke probably wont wanna leave but if he does feel the need....we better hope Peggy Bundy is still avail.....hmmmmm....she does the voice on a show called Futurama....coincidence?
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I would kill Hannah Montana, before it was too late. i would call myself up, and say, "Don't get to excited about the Star Wars prequels, or Matrix sequels." And I would kill younger me, so that I wouldn't have had to live the shitty life I've had since then.
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No? Son of a...
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I was worried with the whole time travel aspect of Lost. But they way they wrapped this ep up, soothed those fears. Good ep...
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Lost clicking on all cylinders Aye
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Makes more sense now?
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That's what I thought, but Past-Desmond never mentioned flight 815 to faraday, did he? so faraday wouldn't necessarily link the two.
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Just as Star Wars turned out to be the story of ANAKIN Skywalker, not Luke as we all first thought, this is the story of Desmond and Penny, not Jack, not Kate, not Sawyer, and certainly not toolbag John Locke.
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I think you called it. if time goes by slower on the Island then that would give time for Michael to get into the shipping biz and get a boat to redeem himself, have Walt sneaking around to help open doors and explain his aging. thats the deal he made to get off the Island. The creepy thing would be that Ben knows all this and possibly and 'Good Guy'
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Just a thought..Desmond in French is like 'Des Mondes' (maybe without the second 'S' not too sure)...however you spell it it means 'The Worlds'...just a thought..<p>besides that it rocks..this whole season does..<p>not enough Juliet however..
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that's why she hadn't been looking. Right? But she gave him the number five years before that.
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WOW! I don't know if I'll feel this way tomorrow or next week or at the end of the season but I don't think the show, or TV, gets any better than that. Not only do we get the dramatic weight of Penny and Desmond finally talking, not only do we get all the bad-ass time travel stuff, but we learn a crapload about the actual show, what the hell is happening in the show, what's going on. ANSWERS! We get a great episode and we get answers. Fucking hell!
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I mean really fucking dumb... This show is too intelligent for it's moron viewers. I bet you losers think Locke is going to show up in the submarine to rescue Des and Sayid.....idiots
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But it makes sense for 2004 Desmond to remember everything because 1996 Desmond stil has to live everything to get to that point. Remember Darlton said time is fixed no back to the future stuff, time course corrects itself
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Desmond pops in from the present, during the hatch implosion. When this happens, his future self goes catatonic. Present Desmond moves back and takes over so there is no 'past Desmond' and future Desmond is unconscious in the jungle with no clothes on.<p> When 'past Desmond' goes forward there's nothing there in the mind of 'Present Desmond', just 'Past Desmond's consciousness, while in the past, where he's vacated, it's just kind of out of sync.<p>Timeline of Events:<p>1. Hatch implodes after Desmond turns the key.<p>2. Desmond's consciousness gets thrown to 1996, where he is disoriented, but understands what's happening because he's already experienced it, and so he tries to affect the future. Mrs. Hawking explains that he cannot continually change things that are simply fated to be, so he breaks it off with Penny, time's little anomaly corrects itself, and Desmond gets to see branching timelines as a side effect.<p>My Theory: Because Desmond has continually mucked about with time, when he left the anomaly area of the island, his consciousness got flung again, but this time, the past Desmond got pulled forward, balancing the equation...finishing the line that needs to happen. Answering 'What truly made Penny hunt down and find Desmond in Los Angeles', and also fitting in with Faraday's 'everything needs a center'. Both halves now are an equation, the future has traveled to the past and the past to the future.<p>Also, I think Ben opened the door, somehow he's on the ship and off it at the same time, which is how he can know things about the ship with no communication devices that would deliver the information. Stranger and stranger...I love this show.
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Piltdown, as compelling as Desmonds story arc is, I am fairly certain he and Penny will take the spotlight to be the Adam and Eve characters, there is still quite a bit of Lost Mythology to explore including the whole Black Rock crash landing, etc. Give it time..
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Could jacob be a consciousness that is unstuck in time - and he somehow lost his body? Also, with Miles being able to talk to dead people, the writers may be suggesting that not only do consciousnesses become unstuck in time, but when the physical body dies, the consciousness lives on. very spiritual.
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and I loved it. Another great Desmond Episode. Lost rules, plain and simple.
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make himself go back in time by shining the penlight in his own eyes. That was pretty funny. He had a couple of funny moments in this one actually.
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Well someone had to get going with insults, congratulations, perfect timing!! Excellent epidose by the way.
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I need to see it again!!! Wow!
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....get the impression that when Des walked up to dan that the college student he was talking to him was trying to tell him that he was from the future too but didnt believe him?
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Didn't the sky turn purple when the hatch blew?
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a lot of people were thinkin or making theories about the present being 2007 and the island being outta wack with time but we saw on the boat, it is indeed 2004. and this would help explain why aaron is older in the flash forwards, because those are likely 2007, or least the ones involving kate and the kid.
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The supposed "box" on the island that ben said you could get anything you wanted out of. Then, he produced Locke's father. how the fuck did Locke's father get on the fucking island? insanity. At this point, I am fully confident these loose ends will be tied up.
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you know, even ben himself mentions in an older episode about the sky turning purple but unless my colors were screwed up, it never looked purple to me. was just a very bright white.
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I hear ya. And like I said, I do love the character of Desmond. The time-travel/displacement stuff has always seemed a little out of place (no pun intended) within the context of the show. And I know that probably sounds odd considering the million other tiny little mysteries happening on the Island. But if his time arc is now completed, then I suppose it was handled well.<P>And yes, that was a waste of ol' Fisher. I wonder if we'll see him again...
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He didn't specifically mention 815, but my impression was that Faraday had spent the time since he met Desmond looking for anomolies etc. and even though we didn't see the backstory of that, he KNEW that the crash has the event he had been looking for.
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you asked why Penny was only looking for Desmond for 3 years if she already knew about the island. Well Desmond has only been missing for 3 years, so for that 5 years before he left for the race she had no reason to go out looking for the island. It was only after he went missing during the race that she would realize the importance of finding the island.
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Locke's father says what happened. He was hit from behind in a car in Florida out of nowhere. He was in pretty bad shape, and then the last thing he saw were the paramedics putting him under and he woke up on the island. So, if Ben can send stuff through time, he can tell his goons to make sure they do all the stuff necessary to bring Locke's dad to the island.
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I myself as others have felt the tail section was a way for ABC to extend the show to make money.....but have heard Ecko was intended to have more use but in real life told the producers due to personal conflicts left the show and hi stint was ended abruptly. I say this declaring that he was my fav charc aside from Desmond
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That might be the most awful thing I've heard someone say. Brutha - get someone to talk to, preferably someone in a counseling profession. Even if you were kidding, that came out a little too genuine. Life is good my friend - even if all ya got is Thursday from 9-10
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Wouldn't it be funny as we get towards the end of the series and right before Locke dies(if he does), he discovers who Benjamin Linus realy is.... Alvo Hanso who also is the head of the Millenium Group... "Well John, this is who we are.....Goodbye John" Would definately be a funny nod to Millenium Ill buy that for a dollar!!!!!!!
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Yeah, but wasn't that after the submarine got all blown up? So that indicates that Ben has other ways to get off the island. Which I guess we can assume, but that is clear proof. And whatever way it is, it avoid any of this electromagnetic stuff that happens if you fly in.
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For some reason my video redo is not working with my Windows Media version of LOST. This has never happened before and I am clueless. I guess I'll convert it than stick it in Video ReDo and see what happens. This delays my calling to torrent up LOST to all that want and need this elixer of Life.
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Sorry, I just can't get Fisher Stevens' character outta my mind whenever I see him..."Come at me! Are you NUTS?" hahaha
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Maybe of any show ever made. Seriously.
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I think it's been established that there is no phsical time travel, just mental/conciousness/etc time travel. So any current losties being adam & eve make wouldnt make sense.
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Yea i can accept that 96 desmond would lose all memory to correct the course of time...but how about penny? i think past episodes show that Desmond and Penny def do contact each other again (and maybe even get back together?) because: 1. I doubt Penny has put her letter to Des in his copy of 'Our Mutual Friend' yet as of 1996 from what we have seen 2. Desmond has contact with the widmores again or possibly just Charles Widmore and is sent to military prison because of him or something to do with him? which is why he wants to get back at him by winning his own race around the world. Even if he doesn't get sent to prison because of Widmore, then there is obviously some event after 1996 that causes such hatred for the guy Kind of strange that Penny never brings this up again. It's not like Desmond pulled a Doc Brown and lectured her on the dangers of not knowing too much about your own future to keep from ruining the timeline...she didn't even know he was experiencing time travel...
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....Aaron turns out to be someone who Jack does not like when he grows up...like........hmmmm......Ben. I'm no rocket phyisist (or speller) but with time travel who knows. That would explain why he does want to see him. and if Ben has 'been' lol on the Island awhile.....and I've never seen Jack's mother in any episodes. F'in freaky!
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I would seriously invest in some Apple Computer stock.
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remember the polar bear skeleton in the desert?
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i dunno if it exists in the lost world but the orchid orientation film suggests that it does...
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Well, does Desmond need a sub to 'get off the island'?<p>No, and that's what the Magic Box does, it sends you around and can be your constant, I bet. You get to go all over the place in your life which is why Michael (not 815, but the Hostile) tells Ben he has to be patient to 'be with them'.<p>Ben also says 'I needed spinal surgery, and the following day a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky. If that's not proof of God then I don't know what is.'<p>That's why the Others lie, the Hostiles lie, everyone on the island who knows what's up lies to make sure that no one screws up the timeline beyond repair.
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Just sittin' here, buyin' the Black Rock first officer's log. Oh, hey, Desmond. Time travelling, eh? Here's Penelope's address. Doo doo doo. IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG DESMOND IS MY CONSTANT. Seriously though, holy shit. That was maybe the best episode of Lost. Damn. I hope those writers didn't lose any creative momentum over the strike break, because if they can keep it up with the new new episodes, this might be the best season of a TV show ever. Wow.
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and cried all over again. :) I think Sayid may have fallen in love with Des a little at the end there. But then again Sayid falls in love with everyone. I just wish "Eggtown" wasn't in between this episode and "The Economist". That episode totally unpsyched me for this one.</p> So here's my question. Who opened the door so Des, Sayid, and Minikowski could get out? Here's my other question. Who was the other person bidding on the Hanso journal from the Black Rock?
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"The Box" was just a metaphor for that the Others can get a hold of anything they wanted. They explain how they got Locke's father on the island, they posed as paramedics and kidnapped him after he got in a car accident, possibly set up by the others. <p> I know alot happens on this show and it gets complicated, but come one guys, sometimes you do just have to read between the lines instead of waiting for every little detail to be explained to you.
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has got to be Ben's mole. I'm pretty sure who it is but I'll keep it a spoiler free post. There are already pics of this individual out on the net of their scenes filmed on the freighter
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Michael. You know it has to be him, right?
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hmm? to be a dick? or to somehow spur desmond's jump through time? What if widmore is like Ms. Hawking?
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My mind is baked from that one, brilliant.
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I was just guessing. I'm unspoiled, so I really don't know.
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Is it Cynthia Watros?
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What if someone could get their past and present consciousness to COEXIST? That would result in a Ms. Hawking, or maybe even BEN LINUS. There may be a whole network of people whose consciousnesses are open to all time phases. wouldn't that be a mindfuck.
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the female voice, Regina, is Zoe Bell, the stuntwoman from Death Proof. She is in the guest star credits every epsiode where Regina talks and it sounds just like her.
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You are assuming a lot there. Yeah, they posed as paramedics. But as of now there is no known way for them to get locke's father to the island with no side effects. Can you "read between the lines" to figure that one out too, hmm?
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the minute Des touched the faucet and went forward in time, I thought of Donnie Darko and that wacky metal and water explanation of time travel. I figured it was a shout-out.</p> And it doesn't necessarily have to be Michael who opened the door. It could be Walt or Mikhail, or even the Navy guy from the Village People. You never know with this show.
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If we all get laid tonight, it's because of Desmond Hume
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...may have wound up there due to time travel?? ...and is Jacob and the shack somehow stuck in a time warp and just popping up every so often??
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Zoë Bell, whom you may remember from 'Death Proof.' Look her up. I can't wait to see her later this season.
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Mmmm... Zoe Bell...
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http://tinyurl.com/245g2p and someone else familiar...
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But you don't know that the others can travel on and off the island with no side-effects, remember both Ben and Alpert were off the island in order to recruit Juliet and neither of them have exhibited any side-effects so far in the show.<p> And I understand I'm assuming alot with my post but my main point was that I don't the "the box" is an actual box I just think it was Ben being metaphorical.<p> And I didn't mean for that previous post to come off so asshole-ish, so I apologize for that one. Should've thrown in some "lol's" or something, hahaha
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i am wondering if the condition des and minkowski are experiencing is 'the sickness' rousseau, kelvin, hell all of dharma, etc were so afraid of? and it wasn't psych-experiment BS? just a thought...
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Desmond gets a set of keys when he checks out of jail w/ a gold watch. I propose that set of keys turns the failsafe
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Here's his timeline...I'll denote when the Desmond is (F)uture Desmond/2004 to the past, (U)naffected/Unknown Affect Desmond, and (P)ast Desmond/1990s to the future.<p> Timeline -<p> 1989 - Desmond begins dating Ruth (U) ("Catch-22")<p> 1995 - A week before marrying Ruth, Desmond gets drunk and is found by Brother Campbell. Desmond joins the monastery, and is expelled...meets Penelope Widmore. (U) ("Catch-22") (Note: Brother Campbell has a photo of himself with Mrs. Hawking)<p> 1996 - Desmond asks Charles Widmore to marry Penelope, who refuses. He meets Charlie playing on a street corner, and decides to break up with Penny. (U) <p> - Desmond returns to 1996 because of the implosion, and decides to change the past, but ultimately, Penelope throws the ring into the Thames. (F) ("It Flashes Before Your Eyes")<p> - Desmond interacts with Daniel Faraday at Queens College Oxford, becoming Faraday's constant. ("The Constant")(P)<p>- Desmond tells Penny to expect a call on Christmas Eve 2004, and gets her number to cement Penny as Desmond's constant. (P) ("The Constant")<p> 1996 (circa) - 1999 - Desmond completes his prison sentence and is discharged from the military. Charles Widmore immediately attempts to bribe Desmond to 'run away and forget Penny'. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")<p> 2001 - Desmond meets Libby at a coffee shop, shortly after arriving in the US, Los Angeles. She loans him her boat to enter a one man race around the world. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")<p>- Penelope tracks Desmond down to the stadium where he and Jack meet for the first time, and confronts him. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")<p>- Desmond begins the boat race in Libby's boat. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")<p> - Desmond arrives on the island and begins to push the button (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")<p> 2004 - After accidentally killing Kelvin, Desmond causes the system failure that brings the plane to the island (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")<p> During the period between the crash and November 1st, 2004 Desmond is assumed to be sitting in the magnetic anomaly, pushing the button.<p>The rest of the Des eps should be taken as read.
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What about the mouse that runs the maze because it will learn how in an hour but in an hour it's dead. Or, Desmond Saves Charlie's life twice, but if he hadn't Charlie would have died the third time and the freighter would never have found them. So which part is fate?
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In 'Live together Die Alone' Windmore says one of these boxes contains your past and one contains your future. I think he knows Des can time travel and does not want Penny to befall the great responsibilty as Adam and eve
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Here's what killed the rat: It's the same thing that would have killed Jake Chambers in The Dark Tower, knowing that it was dead, yet alive, bouncing back and forth in his head until it just popped. That's what I think. Also, if Dan doesn't train the rat, tries to change it, it has no constant, no focus, and pops. That's no paradox, that's time crushing out a paradox before it happens. The anomaly was the rat performing a fleeting act that only is anecdotal, really. Which is probably why the DHARMA guys film a lot of stuff, so it's able to be referenced in a solidly stuck state.<p>Just my idea.
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what if the guy Penny is supposed to marry and is celebrating x-mas with is Jack. how does that work out? my mind is swirling!
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Desmond saves Charlie, but Charlie's the one who follows what Desmond sees as the future rather than avoid death. The freighter was already near, and it's because Desmond turns the key and implodes the hatch.
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Cooler than Fox Mulder singing the theme from Shaft?
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I liked Angel, but I don't think it ever surpassed Buffy. Maybe an episode or two, but for the most part I prefer Buff. And I am male, so take that for what it's worth.
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Torrented up and seeding for our friends in the UK and elsewhere. When I cut the commercials out I didn't have the heart to edit out the Iron Man trailer. Tough Noogies. That was absolutely the best hour of TV in a LONG frakin time.
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That would be really lame. This idea is becoming the "it's all a dream" or the "they're all in purgatory" of season 4.
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Because if the bad time-guys have won, 815 hits the ocean instead of the island, I think...That's what's making him cry, but because he's already not certain where or when he is, he's having a hard time remembering just why this is a bad thing...AWESOME SHOW.
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I have to agree with Krycek. I love the show, and some of the speculation is fun, but some of the theories you guys throw out there are stupider than shit. I mean, really.
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You may be right about it being a metaphorical box. but interestingly enough, over at the avclub.com, the blogger for LOST also mentions Ben's "magic box":<br> "-Remember Ben’s “magic box,” and how he used it to bring Locke’s dad to the island? I’m guessing—and this is no earth-shattering realization, I’ll grant—that Ben has figured out how to exploit the island’s time-traveling properties, and that he had “the man from Tallahassee” plucked from the timeline. But if so, then Ben’s method of travel must be far different from Desmond’s, because Ben can actually get things."<br> Now, I don't think he's right on this count, but I think it sort of shows that you can never take anything at face value in this show. Cuse, Lindelof, and Abrams are playing it pretty straight, but it's only straight on their terms. Which so far have pretty much kept everyone guessing (I certainly haven't been able to predict anything that has happened on this show, from what was in the hatch to what happened to desmond). These guys are really operating on a whole different level of tv storytelling. I think we should really enjoy this, because I doubt something like LOST will happen again for a very long time.
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Mmm. Something about Angel resonated with me more than Buffy - tho I loved them both. Angel was darker, and when Wesley was transformed by having his throat slit and everyone dear to him basically saying "fuck off and die" while he recovered...THAT Wes is among my top 5 favorite characters of all time. So - personal preference.
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Besides the fact that its a good show. Anyone else the cross pollination of actors? The Dr. Ray from the Lost show was the guy Eli's firm paid to stay hidden. How about that for a lost twist.
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I think it was Ben who told the group, since he knew everything about the shippies or whatever you call them.
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Now, this show is inarguably the absolute best thing to ever happen to TV. I was just completely blown away and just can't believe that this is actually getting better each time I see a new episode. I'm so overjoyed, I'm just going to say a few non-spoilery things:<br> 1. Pink light... already just a few pages into VALIS and I'm already seeing connections. i.e. Pink lazer.<br> 2. The new actors are ALL great. <br> 3. The writing just gets better and better.<br> 4. I'm going to try and collect the brains that flew out of the back of my head after viewing this episode and piece them together. <br> 5. A quick question. In case things go really bad in this talkback, would anyone here be interested in being my constant?
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Amazing time-travel story. So well done. And something no one seems to have mentioned, with all the (well deserved) Desmond love: <p> Sayid, as usual, kicked twenty kinds of ass all over town. Love that guy. <p> I liked that Faraday's sun-lamp time freaky thingy and the hatch exploding are the same kind of technology. Thank you, Lost writers, for helping to root this story in sci-fi, and shift it just that much further away from any religious silliness. That shit was getting annoying. <p> Let's all raise a glass to Penny and Desmond!
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Amazing writing, great acting and execution. Brilliant! It left me and my wife both crying and I'm not ashamed to say it. Bravo!
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Glass raised. Funny note... I knew when I came here right after viewing the episode that all I'd have to do is click on any subject on the site, look to my right and just click on the top talkback. Hell, I didn't even read what it was, I just knew. Number 1. After viewing this episode, I just knew it'd be the "talk of the town" so to speak. People who have never seen this show before should be shown this episode. They'll be hooked.
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That was a good turn of phrase - making certain you are calling theories dumb shit and not the people dumb as shit, which is what krycek did. And in my world - you better be one card carrying MENSA member and high "EQ" (yes - EQ)individual to call ANYONE a dumb shit. Of course, if you had a high EQ, you wouldn't have the need to call other people names to make yourself feel more intelligent. Half the fun is fielding any theories that can be batted around without worry of being castigated. I've seen people correct"dumb" theories and the TBer becomes all the wiser. NOw - if he INSISTS on shit - than he truly might be an idiot. But damn krycek, did you really have to do that?
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What the hell does that mean? Are you using MacGuffin as meaning "decoy?" Because if you are, that's not what a MacGuffin is.
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Not ashamed you were crying - or have a wife? j/k
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please refer to said flashback at 8:38:31 time in talkback.
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How come Desmond doesn't remember Sayid or Daniel? His '96 consciousness has seen them both, so living up to 2004 he should remember them but he doesn't. faraday gives desmond calculations in 2004 from his journal, which desmond gives to faraday in 1996. faraday then uses these calculations, and would then in turn write them down in his journal. So the only reason he knows them is because his future self knows them? THAT IS A PARADOX OF TIME TRAVEL!
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made you look turdbrains!
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..at least the aspects of his personality that are more.. abrasive. I for one REALLY appreciate being corrected if my "theories" are wrong. A lot of us are just throwing ideas and thoughts out there, not really calling any of them concrete or definitive. I don't take it personally when I've been wrong and try my best not to rub it in if I've been right. But I can say one thing for sure, there are most likely NO idiots here. Excited fanboys, maybe. Outlandish speculation, absolutely. But idiots? Beyond the obvious ones who come here to flame or troll, I've seen none.
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I just thought it would be funny to include the time of my original post knowing they would look and being able to say 'That I told them what time it was' ah ha
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Well said. cept I dumped "MY" Penny in a drunkin stupor never able to repair the damage. So I am, to this day, an idiot. But I can live with that :D
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Did anyone notice... Farady and Minkowski? Two well-known names in the realm of science... just a clever little homage to scientists, or a hint at something? I had to go look it up, I couldn't remember if it was Daniel Farady or Michael Farady. Well, it's Michael, but Minkowski the scientist's first name is in fact George. Hmm... what if everyone involved with Dharma (which I tend to assume is somehow involved with the boat) is a collection of scientists from years past who have met up across time for some purpose? Or something. :)
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flashback episode.
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happened on Dec. 26, 04. Will the show reference it?
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Everything happens for a reason, right? I had a "penny", too. And when I got a second chance, it turned out she was more of a "Kate". You can never really go back. Well... unless you're in the right place, brother.
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Desmond in 1996 can be separated into 'Desmond who has yet to time travel-consciousness' and 'Desmond who has usurped the body from the future'. The Desmond from the future returns to the future, allowing the 1996 Des to take the body back over, what's really interesting is that the fleeting moments of time travel in this ep are the same kind of back and forth in 'It Flashes Before Your Eyes' Moments where he's back in time, and moments where he's on the island in the 'present'.
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Have you found any significant parallells yet?
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Its like how all the names of bad guys in Hot Fuzz were Penis references!!!! You think Simon Pegg will show up in lost? He is in Star Trek. How crazy would it be if the final episode of lost connected to the movie of Star Trek and it was the NC17-1701 that crashed on the island and the engines are what is causing radiation and fucking with peoples head and then along comes Ethan Hunt, because him and ONLY him can see a car crash and help.....felicity.
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Yeah, the feminist overtones of Buffy greatly appealed to me as well as the lighter tone. Angel was (appropriate to the character) a bit more dramatic, a bit more self-serious. I liked it, just not as much. Though I'll definitely agree that last season of Angel was f'ing awesome. But I'm biased. I love Spike and a lot of those episodes were Ben Edlund heavy.
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out there like a dart on a dart board. I'm just hoping that someone here grabs it and adds more than i can. lets celebrate the bomb shit that was tonites ep
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Just throwing it out there as he clearly is interested in Island related memrobilia.<p> <p> Also is it possible Rousseau's crewmates "sickness" was the Brain aneurism time traveling "strange behaviour" that caused her to exterminate them ? (Though I would guess it the incorrect exit not the entrance from the Island that causes the extreme effects if not on the correct heading.i.e. Helicopter, Subs and Michael and Walts boats bearing.)<p> <p>BTW is Michael being the Spy on the Boat, smashing Radios and leaving doors open, far too obvious or am I missing something ? Who is "the captain" ? I'm looking forward to that reveal myself.<p> <p> If Desmond is Faraday's anchor then Desmond is not going home anytime soon unless Faraday leaves the Island at the end of this season.(Also we have still to find out why Desmond was doing hard time in the Military Prison.)<p> <p>Clearly Rock Solid stuff though. Now all we need is a real Ben V Locke over Jacob style showdown.
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God I love when LOST breaks the formula once in a while...did anyone else miss the "flashback/forward sound effect" tonight? I sure didn't!! The best one was was when Des fell in the stairwell in '96 and landed against the desk in '04. Superb editing. <P> My thoughts on "The Constant"... <P> - Christmas finally addressed! Now wondering if Locke was planning a "Christmas Dinner" at 6pm in "Eggtown" last week. <P> - Penny knows about the island. Hmmmm...just from the call from the Portugese Arctic Igloo Duo (P.A.I.D.)...or from snooping around in Dad's private affairs? <P> - Charles Widmore is interested in all things Magnus Hanso? Why does he want that journal so badly? <P> - Charles actually POINTS Des TOWARDS Penelope? Usually he's trying to get him as far away from her as possible...interesting shift that I think will have bigger significance later. <P> - Freight People. Omar? Wasn't that the freighter captain's name in Raiders? Speaking of the captain...who is the dude behind the binocculars? Boy, Fisher Stevens sure wasn't around long...wierd that he only lasted one episode. Probably see him in a flashback soon. <P> - Coordinate 305...same as the one Ben gave Michael...Anyone else still convinced Mike's Ben's "man" on the boat...who "opens locked doors" for people? I still say it's someone else...Mike is a red herring, IMO. We'll see... <P> - Thunderhead. Natural phenomenon...or man made island cloaking device? Rousseau arrived in a storm disabling her boat...same with Desmond...and probably with The Black Rock. Sure came outta nowhere on a beautiful sunny day, huh? Possibly another "security system" not unlike Smokie? <P> - Daniel kicks ass, man! In a series of impossibly great, well conceived characters (Locke and Ben come to mind), how LOST is able to top itself with new characters is amazing. So...he came to the island knowing he may at some point need a constant? Charlotte and the boys on the boat sure were tense when he started teling "secrets" about the time anomoly...I think they are being instructed to keep the island, and all it's mysteries, a secret...which certainly makes their cover as a "rescue" team moot. <P> - Time "Travel"...well my worst fears were put to rest...Desmond did not hop in a DeLorean and set the flux capacitor to 1996...his "consciousness" travels...not his body. Fine with me...especially tying it in with his exposure to the hatch implosion disaster. Very organic...and puts to rest my fears that LOST was going to turn into a very sci-fi "Stargatey" type show. Also glad it appears Desmond is the only one with this unique ability...well, so far...we can talk about Walt later. <P> - Pen & Des reunite on the phone. Pure genious. What a startlingly well edited scene, too...with their dialog overlapping at the end of the conversation. I got misty, I'll admit it....and that's hard to do. <P> I could go on all night about this mind blowing episode. Again...LOTS of questions raised....with answers only slowly trickling in. But that's fine by me. Everyone say a prayer for Eloise tonight...and thanks for that Desmond timeline, micturatingbenjiman...that puts things in perspective nicely...but I will still argue that Libby did not randomly "meet" Des in that coffee shop...and casually let him "borrow" her boat. I think Libby was PAID to meet Desmond in that coffee shop...and PAID to give her A boat...not HER boat...I'll even argue that Libby's name isn't even "Elizabeth"....but a cover name. She's tied to Charles Widmore or my name isn't Chief Brody. <P> Well...it's not...it's Cheif Brody...don't even get me started.
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I don't have any problem with speculating. As I said in the last message board, its just that some of the theories seem to completely miss the point of the show. I've been watching the show pretty avidly for 3 plus seasons now, and I (along with many people who watch the show) have developed a feel for the kind of story LOST is telling. My friends and some of you on this board throw out interesting ideas and speculation about how various pieces of the puzzle might fit together. Others, however, say stupid shit that doens't make any sense and has only a tenuous link to anything ever seen or suggested by the actual show. It annoys me that people who don't seem to understand this show I love get to have an equal voice with those of you who thoughtfully approach your ponderings and offer educated theories about what has and will happen over the course of the series.<BR> <BR> Also, i'm an arrogant asshole. And I read Japanese Surrealism.
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I don't know if anyone's had this theory before, but I think that Ben's "magic box" is really Walt. It's been implied again and again that Walt has the ability to transport himself and other objects through space, maybe instantaneously. Like the episode (S1) where he's reading about an exotic bird, then one flies into the window. I vaguely recall another episode (end of S2 ... 'three minutes' maybe?) where someone asks if they've ever seen Walt appear somewhere that he wasn't supposed to be. Then there's the fact that multiple characters on multiple occasions have seen Walt nearby when he should have been far away. It's plausible that Ben didn't really let Michael and Walt leave at the end of S2. It seemed like the others needed Walt pretty badly, and this would explain why - perhaps Ben's world-hopping and wealth gained in the outside world has depended on Walt's abilities. Perhaps Walt is Ben's "constant" ? Just some thoughts ...
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now that's what i call mind f**ING!
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First and second chapter only. But yes. The "sane insane" stuff, the "pink laser-pink light" bits. Horselover Fat's NEED to help people being something that has led to complications in his life. Horeselover crying while watching TV. I'm sure there's a LOT more, but it needs to sink in a bit more. I've actually been highlighting the connections I see.
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I agree with G100 here, I was thinking through the whole economist episode that pennys dad was her boss. Also it seems pretty likely to me that he's the captain, but considering a billionaire would never be the captain of a tiny freighter, he is funding it. I also think he has known that Desmond was meant to go to that island and thats the real reason why he has been such a douche, because obviously there was some significance to Desmonds statement when he asked why do you hate me so much? I think that either he was in contact with daniel and thats where he told desmond where to find penny because he knew it was important that she was his anchor. It would also make sense for the fact that Penny knew about an island at all like she mentioned in this episode. I bet you next weeks big reveal will either be michael as the spy on the boat or that Charles widmore is on the boat.
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there was no flashback/flashfoward sound because there were none ....i thought that was obvious.....it wasnt a flashback, desmonds consciousness was literally moving back btween the two time periods. thats how he could bend over or fall in one time period and it continues into the other
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...who cried at the end? Shit, what's wrong with me?
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u mean when him an penny finally spoke on the phone ? yes it was quite nice, i got kinda misty too hope about farday finding the note in his book that desmond is his constant....explains why he sent him to see himself so he has a safety net just incase he has "side effects"
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but there were other people in the room so i didnt
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whoops just re-read ur post, i thought u just missed it , but u really didnt , u were happy it wasnt there , sorry....lol
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I'm still kind of upset that they threw in the time travel stuff, because if you think about it a little then it makes no sense. But if you do what Austin Powers' friend said in the second one and just don't think about it, it's great. So does tonight's ep. explain why Des was in prison? My guess is he went AWOL to see Faraday at Oxford and that's why. Also, tonight it seems that Des and Penny didn't talk from the time he got her phone # and the call from the boat, but in the past she met him at the track when he met Jack, after getting out of jail but before going sailing to the island. And how awesome that her dad was bidding on the diary of Captain HANSO of the black rock? Seems like someone mentioned here before that Hanso was the captain, but was that just speculation or did they already say that and I missed it. Does Hanso's diary tell Mr. Widmore about time travel and healing properties of the island? Damn, I wish I could jump to my future self and have a marathon Lost DVD viewing and find out how this thing ends!!
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now that he's found his constant? Or is he just fucked up in the head because of all the time travel. Great episode.
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The only reason I see for your post is for someone to post what I'm about to post: "What, in your opinion, is the point of the show?"<p>Now, give us your opinion, and when you get your WGA card, and fly out to Oahu and start writing the show, I'll give anything you say MORE credence than anything else I read. However, since you're just a fan, and bravo for being on the bandwagon all up in the front seat, we backseat riders have theories and shit, too, man. Damn, there's always one guy like this around to play 'Old hand'. So, I'll bite, man. You've admitted arrogance, and I don't see that, but you haven't said much in the way of theories either...So, tell me, what's it all about Alfie? What's the point of 'Lost'?
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1) I haven't read all the comments above, but how could the psychic be a fraud and intentionally convince Claire to board Flight 815 to stick Aaron on the island if the crash was an accident because Desmond did not push the button? Someone must have foreseen it. The psychic was either genuine, or the person who paid him had knowledge of the future.<br><br> 2) My prediction: Claire doesn't die anytime soon. She was left behind on the island, and that's the source of Jack's discomfort with Kate's raising Aaron as her own. Jack then finds out that Claire is his sister in between the early flash-forwards and the latest one in the season three finale. Perhaps he found a photo or correspondence in dad's old papers and used his golden ticket to visit Claire's mom. That pushes him even more into despair and accounts for his desire to go back to the island in order to save his sister. I, of course, could be proven completely wrong.
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Who's the real and final focus of this story? Sure, we're all following these characters, but in the end there really is only one main character and his (maybe her) story.
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Hey, I was about as much an outspoken critic as anyone in the past about this show -- that it was dragging and just throwing out mysteries for the sake of mysteries, as if THAT alone made it cool. But so far these latest episodes actually seem to be GOING somewhere...they actually feel satisfying by the end...and that alone is a very, very, very welcome relief.
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I KNOW there were no "flashbacks/forwards" in tonight's episode...hence my "breaking the formula" opening line in my previous post. <P> It never fails to amaze me how TPTB "play" with the standard conventions of the show from time to time. Thus, I did not "miss" the FF/FB sound effect tonight...I kinda welcome it when they take a break from that.
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Mathew Abaddon. I liked to see more of him after the tease we got in the first two episodes
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Mathew Abaddon. I liked to see more of him after the tease we got in the first two episodes
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Mathew Abaddon. I liked to see more of him after the tease we got in the first two episodes
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Desmond has become unstuck in time. Poh-to-weet
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At first I was dissapointed that there was not going to be any of Locke's people in the episode. But there was so much to this one even though it just had Desmond. And that scene with Penny at the end? Phonomenal. Gives me hope for an otherwise meh season.
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In the time it took me to type my last post...you were posting that you had re-read my original post and saw what I was talking about. <P> I have a feeling the next time they play with the original FB/FF format will be Episode 8...the Michael-centric episode. <P> I have a feeling it will be set ENTIRELY in the future...with flashbacks to how he and Walt were able to escape Craphole Island...and what they've been up to since returning to the states. <P> And...possibly how he ended up in that coffin everyone's been talking about.
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the more i believe micheal is in the coffin. It just makes the most sense. After micheal dies, walt might help jack find the island. But why would Micheal have his funeral in LA?
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He said that what was happening to him would start happening to all of them as they get back to the island. So have the boat people all been to the island before? I thought maybe it was just that he was "remembering" being on the island in the future, but it doesn't look like he'll be going there in the future since he's dead. So when were these people there and what were they doing?
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She gets nude in Gia. And performs super acts of total L'espionage with none other than Angelina Jolie. Have fun.
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Well...he was originally headed there on Flight 815 wasn't he? <P> My guess..Michael had no choice about where he was "laid to rest"...as, unlike the "Oceanic 6", who got to return with their original identities...I think Mike was FORCED to take a new identity...a new job...new SS#...a new apartment, etc...and forced to lie about his TRUE identity as an Flight 815, Craphole Island survivor. <P> I think Jack was so surprised at the Hoffs-Drawler funeral home, because he AT LEAST expected Walt to be there...but I don't think Walt ever made it off the island with Michael.
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Your first comment is one of my biggest questions about Lost. If the Claire's psychic is a fraud, as he claims to be in a Mr. Eko episode, then how did he know the plane was gonna go down, especially since, according to ABC, the definitive reason 815 went down is because Desmond wasn't there to push the button... There is an incongruity that I hope is explained, but I fear is an error...
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I have to give it up to the writers when they actually do their job, and tonight, they actually did for a change. This was a very compelling episode, but Desmond eps have a track record of curtailing the mediocrity brought on by characters like Claire, Jin, Sun, Bernard, Rose, etc. This is why I still watch. Because I want every episode to be like this. Every other episode this season has largely consisted of people breaking away from one group to join another, walking back and forth between each camp trying to get one thing or another straight. It's been BORING! But this is what I look for when I give Lost a chance and watch it. I want storytelling like tonight. And all you people who are still hanging on to a grudge because I didn't kiss Carlton and Damon's asses for the lackluster rest of the season are ridiculous and need to get over it. I've barely posted recently and you people are STILL bringing me up, STILL trying to paint me as pretentious simply for defending myself when someone said I had a short attention span, etc. I mean, give me a fucking chance to upset the apple cart again before you choose to forever remember me as some rabblerousing troll which I am not. Great episode. It's a shame that they refuse to push the show to this level every week.
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I think you're all wrong. It's clear to me who the captain is--it's Ben. Watch the Orchid video again, think about other things you've seen, and it will make sense. It makes Ben's line, "I have a man on that boat" all the more slick.
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the critics that would chance a throw at a bitch session against a Lost episode have crawled into a hole of some I told you soooo. FUCK OFF I am glad to witness the most brilliant episode of tv writing ever! If the rest is less than it is 2nd to greatness and better than george lucas' idea of a follow up. debate that in ur Eli Stone talkbacks hormongers
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Desmond's moving back and forth in time is straight out of "Slaughterhouse Five". Maybe Kurt Vonnegut was on to something.
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I like the fact that ur honest. i know many that have lost faith in the more questions and less answers hub bub. BUT I as most think the reason I liked this ep is bcz I sense a turning point ( jump the shark as you would but w/ a steady incline)where it is gonna become more about clarity than questions This Ep was brilliance
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Oh .....and dont forget that this is the anniversary of the most watched telecast in tv history with the MASH finally. coicindence? I think not
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this is a test<p> <i>this is a test</i><p> this is a test
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<b>does bold work too?</b>
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and he saved the universe....but you stupid lost fucks think this is cutting edge....christ, it is one of the most derivative series ever created
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Freighter Desmond is often just staring at the ground/into space and I think this is because of his meta-consciousness - although he is standing there on the boat, as his past self is changing particular events (by calling Pen-ahee or visiting Danny), he is seeing these things happening as he stands there on the boat. It's like "time" is a large painting...he sees everything at once, and he is watching someone(himself in this case) paint some changes in one corner of the canvas. <p> His past/army self is what, 8 years younger - clueless as to what is to become...and that consciousness is swapped with freighter Des who has 8 years of experiences to draw on. But that consciousness is learning by "seeing" all that is happening and changing in his past. When their full consciousnesses switch back, army Des will NOT obviously be the same - he has seen the future now and his actions for the next 8 years will be dictated by these events. Whew. Need a Percocet. <p> My God this is mind bending...but I got it. And it is no wonder the brain bleeds from the experience. It's too much psychic energy for the brain to handle. <p> I think Dharma was trying to physically manifest what some were able to do with their consciousnesses. Hence tragic accidents and Bunny 15. I CANNOT WAIT until we get more Marvin Candle/Wickmund and see what they are up to. My nose is bleeding. <p> Thanks Gotilk. I'd settle for a "Kate". It seems all I find are the "Libbys". Not the meeting Desmond with magic boat Libbys. The institutionalized Libbys. <p> micturatingbenjamin, don't let Maxwell get to you. I pointed out a now commonly known easter egg - Miles went to Ghost bust that woman's son, the "spirit" pointed him to the money and heroin. It seems the picture on the lady's wall by the stairs look just like the pic that was taken of Eko and Yemi. He went into this clever diatribe about how I'm insinuating all blacks look alike. He can be pompous and his little jokes make it clear he secretly admires Sick Fixx. At least he is up front about his arrogence. SOme use these forums to get a chip to place squarelty on their shoulder. No offense Maxwell-you are certainly educated and quite witty. Your humor reminds me of Dennnis Miller - and I like Dennis Miller. But boy - as you did with me a couple weeks ago, you sure can come off like as ass. As can I - but God I try not too. I hate that aspect of my personality.
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bacci40 relishes that aspect of his personality. I get a good hearty laugh from those that can feel like a big man calling people "fucks" on a TB. If you are going to call someone names, Christ don't do it in a medium where there is no consequence. Go to the Quik Mart and indiscriminately call someone a fuck. I'll pay for the ice for your face.
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Good God - how many years ago has that been already? I'm in my upper 30s and I vaguely remember watching it.
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Great job by the Lost fucks! More insightful comments per post than any TB on the net. Book it.
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STUPID Lost Fucks. My bad.
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just a short peek - Danny and CS get cool white biohaz parkas. Sweet <p> "if you want us to stop you're going to have to shoot us"
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2 hours of sleep for work. Poor students. Not getting my best on Friday - but boy if they have questions about Lost.....
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Sucks to have your birthday today.
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Eloise in the maze was a jaw dropper. Daniel is fast becoming one of my favorite characters. Des and Penny talking again for the first time in years was great too. Best Ep of the series so far which is saying a lot. One of the few shows that get's better each week. It was classic Lost raising as many questions as it answers.
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but then how did Penny know to wait for his call in '04? And paradoxically, why did Daniel seem to not remember Des? I must be Lost, or something...
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We'll just put bags over our heads for a minute...OMG THE FUTURE BEES US!
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Daniel Faraday has a blippy memory. They established that, so he doesn't remember a lot of stuff.
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1.) Just when this series was getting good again they toss in a complete filler episode that has nothing to do with any of the characters I'm interested in.<p>2.) Why do people complain about the commercials? Why don't you just do what I do and fast forward through them, blipvert style?<p>3.) Seriously, I tape Lost and Eli Stone, then watch Lipstick Jungle, then copy Lost with the ads edited out, then watch Stone. Best triple feature night on TV this year.<p>4.) No, really, if it wasn't for Lost, Eli Stone, Cashmere Mafia, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, Private Practice and Pushing Daisies, I wouldn't watch ABC at all. Now that they canceled Big Shots and Cavemen, I mean.<p>5.)I sure hope National cancels Journeyman, though. I wasted three hours giving that piece a chance and totally hated it.<p>6.) Of course I mean it. Every word. I don't care if your interests are different than mine or you have better taste. All that means is that you're better than I am. so? Whatcha gonna do about it, come to my house and educate me?<p>7.) Yes, i said Lipstick Jungle. You wish your show had a pantyless Brooke Shields banging Paul Blackthorne up against a running washing machine. What does your show have, a couple of scruffy unwashed hobos getting it on in a bear cage?<p>8.) LOL
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that the heading jeff fahey followed in the chopper (cheat sheet) was 305 and ben told mike and walt to follow 315? or am i wrong?
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I guess that's why Walt's now...taller? Does the time door swing both ways?
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I believe that you meant popkins, and Gunslingers don't like mayo on them. Looks too much like spooge. <p> Poppins is that british nanny with the umbrella. Gunslingers would likely eat her as well, if that got them any closer to their goal.
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<P>Up until now, watching LOST has been like driving up a hill. <P>And it's a great hill. It's really interesting, and some remarkable stuff happens while you're driving, but the entire time, you're aware that you're going up. Up. Up. And there's a tension building. And in a way... it's kind of unbearable. <P>And tonight, watching LOST felt like cresting that hill. <P>It felt like getting a glimpse of the bottom on the other side. And finally knowing it's there. <P>I don't think we've quite started back down the hill yet. I don't think we've picked up that momentum yet. I'm betting that's next season. But if this season is about reaching the top of the hill and finally seeing the way down... then consider me satisfied and pleased and feeling vindicated as a fan. <P>And Desmond Pilgrim was great tonight. BTW.
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my pops was in a MASH unit so I had to watch that every day, and grew to appreciate good tv at a young very young age. This episode will be known as the opposite of jumping the shark, I hence call it the Desmond = an episode that does not climax but pushes forward and exceeds the boundries of writing. (the reason writers should have been on strike)
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I scrolled up and found that. I just can't type to save my life.
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....true fans will come to know this as the moment that things started to become revealed. i think thats why so many are excited. I get a sense of no more BS! game on! either way....there is no season of any show that has accomplished the excitement of the first season (X) 10 in a fourth season. Fuck Fanboys and there mission to see Star Wars, since they F'd it up, might as well be a story about Lost
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isn't it, brother?
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...by know means do I remember in my...ahem 30's now..... My yahoo news reported to me when I woke up the other day in the anniversary section that...YES... I really am that old. poinient though if u think about it .....not even Seinfeld, X-files, or Dexter could match the pure genius of what we witnessed tonite. I will always remember where I was when this ep happened. THAT GOOD!
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...by know means do I remember in my...ahem 30's now..... My yahoo news reported to me when I woke up the other day in the anniversary section that...YES... I really am that old. poinient though if u think about it .....not even Seinfeld, X-files, or Dexter could match the pure genius of what we witnessed tonite. I will always remember where I was when this ep happened. THAT GOOD!
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Wow. That says alot. true genius will revealed when we are wrapping up season 6 and we keep referring back to "The Constant" as the time it all came together. And some will list at "the moment they were hooked on Lost". I am Desmond. I have seen the future. <NoseBleeds>
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darlton are just awesomely nerdy. last night we saw nods to back to the future (young faraday helping des), TNG finale 'All Good Things...' with Desmond jumping in between his body at different periods, and I may be stretching here...but 90's Flash storylines where time stream jumping Wally West can always find his way back because his girl Linda serves as his anchor.
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I keep thinking of "Bad Blood" when I think of 7 good years of X-Files. I know it was a straight comedy ep - but still one of my favorite hours of TV ever. Farscape had several - Nerve, LOOK AT THE PRINCESS PART III, and Die Me, Dichotomy. Gosh there is a top 10 I guess of hour-longs...and The Constant just broke in the top 3.
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mentioned Dexter. After downloading and watching both seasons in about 96 hours - I am still talking about it and thoroughly impressed. I hope losing their showrunner doesn't screw with season 3.
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Farscape's Die me Dichotomy, Lost's The Constant and Angel's "Forgiving" are tied with the highest number of HOLY FUCK"s in a hour-long.
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Best. Episode. Ever!!! Not a dull moment, the entire episode was amazing!!
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Feb. 29, 2008, 7:38 a.m. CST
If we're starting to crest the hill, I hope the brakes don't giv
by rbrog77
Can it be time “travel” if you never leave where you are? Or is it more like being in more than 1 place/time at the same time? <P> It was pretty f’ing cool how they did the different time cuts though. Mid-sentence, mid pick-up, mid fall. Great. <P> I thought there was an interesting line that one of the freighters said when escorting Des to sick bay. Something about the last port of call being Fiji, so at least they new they were in the pacific. So maybe the theories people have been touting about the island itself moving aren’t to far off base. <P> There’s another twist on a previously said line out of Des. He’s not supposed to be there. Like Locke saying things weren’t supposed to happen. <P> The new characters are a great addition to the show. <P> “Because I need you to find me”. <P> ;-> <P> As for the paradox thing and Darlton saying something like Nah, Faraday when walking away from Des in the past did say something about a paradox. He also said in the lab you can’t change the future. So are we to make of this when people say things aren’t supposed to happen they are correct? <P> Great line by Des asking Dan what he put on his head during exposure to radiation. Maybe we know why he’s scatter brained now. <P> I’m starting to believe people are right about the freighters being Widmore employees. Minkowski said they were under strict orders not to answer the call from Penny. Who else would know about her making calls or trying to find Des? <P> Of course, on this show it could be practically anyone...Ben, Michael, Jack...Penny herself. <P> I love this fucking show. <P> If a constant is something you really care about, and if Des is Dan’s constant, does that mean Dan really cares about Des? <P> Going back to the island moves around thing. The Black Rock set sail for Siam but was lost at sea. The only remaining artifact is the first mate’s journal which was found in Madagascar. Hmmmmmmmm... <P> “After your call, someone has to tell mew precisely what’s going on”. What a great line by Sayid. Stand around watching things transpire, just observing, and then saying someone has to explain this to me. Classic. <P> “Short Circuit” short circuited out pretty quick. Wonder if that was it for him. <P> If you didn’t tear up with the phone call, please take your pulse. <P> Someone please remind me to breathe. What a fucking great show. <P> Previews for next week Ben tells Locke they have a common enemy. I slowed it down and there’s a scene where Locke is staring holes through someone. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. I think this may tie into the end of The Economist. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over.
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What I was trying to say was...If we're starting to crest the hill, I hope the brakes don't give out.<P> What a ride!!
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hour ever. I looked and it was 9:18pm. Then, Deselope have that incredible scene and it was 9:52. Unreal. I think the time shift is spreading.
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thanks for posting that tinyUrl and reminding me of how hot (in a weird girl-who-could-kick-my-ass way)Ms. Bell is...and how disgustingly fat and morbidly huge Harry is.
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Season 5 is the fun ride down. I hope we don't hit anything in season 6 to stop us in our tracks, break our necks, destroy our trust, hope, and pride...like a machine to manifest the dead or travel through time to create alternate futures. Lost is better than that.
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I'm not sure if this has been addressed here yet, but all last night I was thinking that what happened in that episode was that the consciousnesses of 1996 Desmond and 2004 Desmond switched places. But Jeff Jensen at EW.com clued me into what really happened. 1996 Desmond was the one jumping forward and back in time, and 2004 desmond was MIA until the end. Think about it: everytime he jumped, the body he was just in went catatonic. If he was just switching places, that wouldn't happen. Also, we know 1996 Desmond is on the boat in 2004. Over the phone, Faraday tells him "when it happens again, go to oxford and find me". And he jumps back, and finds faraday. If the guy we were looking at in the 1996 scenes was really the 2004 desmond, he wouldn't know to look for Faraday - only the 1996 consciousness knew that. Mind bending stuff.
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...and I have seen the end of this show, and it is great. Now, let me tell you what happens before my brain expl
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what i want to know is why was it desmond back 1996 time jumping? what is so special about that time... it was present desmond that was experiencing the weird turbulance so somehow the present time chose 96 desmond to get pulled into the present...
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As in, he is fated to jump to 96 in order to complete the loop and make it so that Faraday is able to use the right frequency? Faraday of course somehow forgets Desmond before coming to the island... he's not all there, which is why he keeps the journal. Probably a side effect of not shielding his head from the radiation during his experiments
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My explanataion and Jeff Jensen's seem to make sense in terms of what happened, but you're right - it's 2004 desmonds that feels the turbulence/radiation, so why didn't the same thing happen that occurred in the "Flashes" episode -shouldn't 2004 des have jumped back to 1996? that's what happened in that episode. I think everything hinges on what he experienced when he turned the hatch key. When that happened, he jumped to 1996. Maybe when he did that his 1996 mind became unstuck. Then the storm in this episode helped that mind to attach to his 2004 body. So instead of 2004 jumping back to 96, it was 96 jumping back to 96. Still not sure why it was 96, except that seemed like a critical time in his life.
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-------Highlight Below------ Okay, here's what I think..... - we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years. Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme... - the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world. - The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process. - Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor") - Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island. - Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered. - The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn. - Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed. - The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck. - Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc). - So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island. - The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose. Ideas? EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.
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Feb. 29, 2008, 8:45 a.m. CST
I REPEAT SPOILERS...WHO IS IN THE COFFIN? I KNOW...FROM OTHER BO
by JBouganim1
-------Highlight Below------ Okay, here's what I think..... - we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years. Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme... - the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world. - The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process. - Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor") - Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island. - Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered. - The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn. - Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed. - The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck. - Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc). - So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island. - The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose. Ideas? EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.
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-------Highlight Below------ Okay, here's what I think..... - we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years. Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme... - the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world. - The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process. - Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor") - Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island. - Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered. - The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn. - Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed. - The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck. - Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc). - So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island. - The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose. Ideas? EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.
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Bad behavior on the island puts your name in the hopper for the next death. Watros and Rodriguez had DUIs close together - and hell JJ knocked 'em out in one scene. I'd say there is a connection. Though if Matthew Fox blew a .08, I doubt his job would be in jeapordy. If Elizabeth Mitchell gets busted...I would bet her time will be short. Just lookin' for a reason, baby!
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At this point, I will settle nothing less for a completely happy ending for both of them that doesn't involve any kind of great sacrifice at the end. Since Des and Penny's story is the Odyssey arc, the entire payoff of that story was seeing the Odysseus finally reaching home and being with his wife. Even better was his badass slaughter of all her suitors. *That's* the arc I expect Desmond and Penny to take: Desmond kicking ass and getting his girl in the end.
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I love fish biscuits.. Cons (mainly about the people) : Always in a rush, on the go Think they are the center of the world Paranoid/ living in fear Ultra-competitive Non-chalant and maybe a bit arrogant too...very "in your face" Parking fees! Brooklyn seemed kind of sketchy, and the whole puffy jackets made it seem like a '95 timewarp
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spoiler *************************** fisher stevens reported he is returning to hawaii to continue filming his stint on Lost. Looks like we haven't seen the last of Minkwoski.
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Everyone i know has read Murakami too, dude. Oh but wait, you probably appreciate it more than us. And let me guess, you're reading it in the original Japanese. Here's your medal.
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I am still in the process of playing the game. Let me know if anyone wants me to continue to give the play by play even though somebody has already siad how it ends. (A SPOILER tag would have been nice). <p> Anyway, I am on episode four now, still nothing too exciting.
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I can't read it. Too jumbled for talkback. So maybe try paragraphs by typing the less than sign, the letter P, then the greater than sign.<P> See, it works.
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So it goes.
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im not saying he didnt die. but ethan has been in more episodes after his death than before so...
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Great episode. I was afraid that was gonna screw up my chronological re-edit but i think i see how i'm gonna have to do it now. check it out! http://lostre-edit.blogspot.com/
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Okay, here's what I think..... <p>- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years. </p> <p>Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme... </p>
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<p>- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years. </p> <p>Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme... </p> <p>- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world. </p> <p>- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process. </p> <p>- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor") </p> <p>- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island. </p> <p>- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered. </p> <p>- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn. </p> <p>- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed. </p> <p>- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck. </p> <p>- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc). </p> <p>- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island. </p> <p>- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose. </p> <p>Ideas? </p> <p>EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden. </p>
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<p>- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years. </p> <p>Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme... </p> <p>- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world. </p> <p>- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process. </p> <p>- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor") </p> <p>- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island. </p> <p>- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered. </p> <p>- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn. </p> <p>- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed. </p> <p>- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck. </p> <p>- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc). </p> <p>- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island. </p> <p>- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose. </p> <p>Ideas? </p> <p>EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden. </p>
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1) I may be an ass, but that picture still isn't Yemi or Eko. (this is one example of the theories I hate...i'll admit there is a resemblence, but it's obviously not Yemi or Eko. And while some of you can admit that, there were several people who argued vehemently that it was...ARGH!)<BR> <BR> 2) Darlton are on the record as saying that Star Trek episode "All Good Things" was a big influence on "The Constant", so you can't really bash them too much for the similarities.
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BEN SAYS "THE MAGIC BOX IS A METAPHOR, JOHN!" He actually says it, people. Fucking pay attention.
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i was actually going for duece but i'm sorry my spelling error. i'll go slit my wrists down my arm for being such a DUMBASS.
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we both really need to go kill ourselves because its 'deux' and 'deuce'
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get banned, douche.
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"we both really need to go kill ourselves because its 'deux' and 'deuce'" I got one right douche...
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In that there isn't a giant cube shaped object that produces what you want. I think that's what Ben is saying. But there is something about the island that gives you what you want.
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<p>- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years. </p> <p>Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme... </p> <p>- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world. </p> <p>- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process. </p> <p>- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor") </p> <p>- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island. </p> <p>- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered. </p> <p>- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn. </p> <p>- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed. </p> <p>- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck. </p> <p>- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc). </p> <p>- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island. </p> <p>- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose. </p> <p>Ideas? </p> <p>EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden. </p>
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I get the feeling that the something about the Island that gives you what you want (at least from the outside world) is Richard Alpert.
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i really hate to fan a flame, but JBouganim1, you do realize you spelled deux like this --> 'DUEX'? so you effin moron you didnt get jack shit right? you got it through you think fucking skull? crawl in a hole and die.
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Thanks. Good read.<P> Jacob's Ladder, according to Wiki, came from a dream of Jacob. He dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place; and I did not know it." And he was afraid, and said, "This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."<P> So your closing where you say the island is the garden of Eden may be correct, but it might be more correctly stated as the gateway to heaven.<P> As far as the anchor theory, it totally makes sense...especially the Through the Looking Glass scene with Jack talking about his father. If it is Des in the coffin, and if he's the anchor, I can see a whole lot of things being messed up. Kate, however, might not need Des as her anchor. Her's might be Aaron.<P> Also, looking at this as a metaphor for the show seems like too much of a coincidence not to be the case.<P> Good stuff!! Lots to think about.
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i dont want to take credit for that...i read it somewhere else but it fucked me up this morning after reading it. Makes so much sense and I am pissed for readin igt
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about Aaron. Sort of explains why she isnt fucke dup like Jack
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I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the event which led to Desmond getting thrown into prison. I doubt Penny had the opportunity to put her little inspirational note in his copy of 'Our Mutual Friend' yet.
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...about a faith and science battle may (or may not) be on the right track, but it might be better stated that men of faith are trying to protect the gates of heaven from men of science...non-believers.<P> Interesting thing about that is according to the Medrash, several angels tried to climb the ladder and failed.<P> So maybe even if science does find the gates, they may still not be admitted.<P> Crap...now I'll be thinking about this all day.
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dude! I too, think Jacob is the biblical Jacob. I mean this is a cynical viewpoint to take but the show is on ABC and ABC is owned by Disney, and Disney is heavy into the Christianity... I've been wondering if they'd tie some Biblical mythology into the show for awhile now
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thanks brotha! we'll see if i'm actually right...<P>I'm wondering if there's a connection to the yellow serum that Minkowski was injected with by the freighter's doctor, and the yellow Dharma serum they were giving the pregnant ladies? And that Kelvin and Des believed to be some sort of booster against 'the sickness' while in the Swan? Maybe that's actually a radioactive agent that *enables* the timeshifting somehow, rather than preventing it?
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beyond our spelling beef, i like the theory about the hostiles being the survivors of the black rock. it falls in with Richard never aging and where the hell they came from. However he speaks pretty much modern english so he must go to and from the island alot if this theory is right...he would need to become modernized as well. i was thinking possibly that Magnus Hanzo, the captain of the Black Rock who supposedly died and is buried on the island may be Jacob....
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How does Faraday not know who desmond is in 2004/island when now they have met? Doesn't the whole don't change ur number for 8 years you hate me chat negate the fact that Penny made an effort to track Desmond down at the stadium in L.A. when he was training for the race? Why can desmond not remember anything? Last time he traveled back he remembered everything. Thanks!
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Your theories are ok, but stop posting them over and over. That's not cool
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i thought the same exact things. here are my theories:<p> 1. Faraday is going to suffer some kind of brain injury that will make him have memory problems resulting in him forgetting some portions of his life. This could also explain why he has a caretaker and also why Charlotte was helping him test his memory with the cards and why he was having trouble with the little test. <p> 2. I had a big issue with 1996 Desmond not remembering anything also but I guess I could accept the theory that others posted: Once the time anomaly was fixed, the Universe corrected itself and 1996 Desmond forgot about the incident but present Desmon retains the memories of it because this is the period is that the disturbance originated from? who knows but it sounds good enough to me...<p> 3. Penny not mentioning anything about the 1996 chat after subsequent meetings could just be a plot hole but maybe Darlton will surprise us.
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...and saw Jacob inside, he also saw, and was startled by someone who popped his head up in the window, who to me looked like Ben. But... Ben was somewhere else at the time. So, is Ben time shifting with Jacob and the shack or what the hell?
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Jacob's cabin is there, then it's not there, implying some sort of shift that now appears to be temporal. And Richard Alpert doesn't appear to be age, which means he's time-jumping around somehow, although physically instead of mentally like Desmond. <p>All I know is, Desmond and Penny is probably the best TV romance since David and Maddie on MOONLIGHTING.</p>
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* Yemi or Eko are in the picture at Mrs. Gardner's house (BAD THEORY!! BOO!!)<BR> <BR> * Richard and the Hostiles are survivors of the Black Rock (GOOD THEORY!! YAY!!)<BR> <BR> * Ben is a time traveling clone (BAD THEORY!! YOU SUCK!!)<BR> <BR> * Abaddon is working for Charles Widmore who is following the trail of the Black Rock in order to find the island (GOOD THEORY!! STEAK DINNERS FOR ALL!!)
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The Pesmond really struck a chord.
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*scene?
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This is just my thoughts after seeing last night's episode:<p> Everyone on the island was either associated with the experiments taking place, or were somehow exposed to massive radiation or electromagnetism. They were constantly bouncing around during periods of time in their own lives, and were causing great disruptions on the proper flow of time. This is why the show is chock full of flashbacks - everyone is flashing a round, but something on the island, or something Ben (and Dharma) did on the island prevented people from going crazy. Desmond was okay until he left the island. These people were taken to the island to try to help cure them before they die. Their memories are constantly being erased to prevent the madness. So there was no plane crash. They were all brought to the island, and to explain why they are missing, a plane was purchased and scuttled in the Pacific.<p> Daniel and the BlackRock Ledger<p> Is it just me, or do you find it interesting that Daniel uses his notebook as a way to track changed in his past. He says to Desmond at Oxford, "if you were already here, wouldn't I know about it in the future?" The problem is that no he wouldnt. His recollections of the past would not change - so he has to continue to flip back into his journal to see if any of the notes he left in there have been altered or updated.<p> So then maybe the ledger from the Black Rock serves the same purpose. The ship is still on the island, but the ledger made it off, and was part of some pirate's personal effects at one point. So someone on the Black Rock made it off the island and kept a ledger. Just like Daniel. Or..... was Daniel on the Black Rock? How long has he been keeping track of the changes in the past?<p> And maybe the reason that "rescuing your people isn't our top priority" is because actually CURING them of their time-hopping problem IS the primary objective.<p> Last thing isnt a conjecture but an observation: If Poppy Widmore bought the journal in 1996, he's had 8 years to read it and respond to the information he learned in it. What if the book told him about this island and its location, and how to get back and forth from it (the author somehow got off the island), and he contacts Hanso who owned it before it was auctioned, and the two of them decide to research the island to harness its power, to manipulate time and history to actually create their massive wealth and power that they now have.
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Nothing of substance to add, just had to say it at least once. Penelophume. There, twice.
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"3. Penny not mentioning anything about the 1996 chat after subsequent meetings could just be a plot hole but maybe Darlton will surprise us."<br> <br> From our point of view (or Desmond's/Jack's/anyone else's) at that point in the timeline we are observing, it had not occurred in the past yet. (the past, yet.. hmmm) Look at it this way. As an observer, even if you could view your own life, at some point you see an event. Now, at some other point you find a way to go back and change that event. Does it change your memory of the event and all records of that memory, or does it change it in a different, new universe? Or maybe it changes only your observation of that event and all changes that occur as a result of your meddling. It's a TV show, but from our point of view it's also a record of events before AND after they change. Daniel's awareness of Desmond is altered, but we are ALSO shown Daniel before that change occurs. We still can see the before and the after, even in the past. It seemed fairly simple to me, not a plot hole at all. Or perhaps I'm missing something?
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Since the producers love throwing numbers at us... remember the flash forward with Hurley... Charlie was by the "ho-ho's" and Hurley and Jack playing horse and the score when jack left was H and O, which are the 8th and 15th letters of the alphabet.... get it, flight 815... Well, Des goes back to 1996 which is eight years from where the losties are... but the plane crashes in September and Desmond is on the frieghter in December... 8 years and 15 weeks??? 815??? Right? Anyone? ...
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Great episode, you just knew it was gonna be good when Desmond was time traveling before the credits went off.
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Not in a gay way or anything. I just think I need one at this point because if I absorb any more words into my brain, I'm going to have to start forgetting stuff because my space is limited. (the 80s were tough on my synapses/dendrites) Wait, I need to go grab a tissue, my nose is bleeding.
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but also those where I'm almost completely silent.<p>Maybe 'cause I'm too stunned...
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Anyone saying as soon as the 815 surviors leave the island they will have problems are forgetting one key thing: Sayid was not showing any effects. At least not at this point. Also it doesn't appear he was having any problems in the flashforward either. Maybe it takes an event of great magnetic effect to trigger the problem. I wouldn't assume a typical X-ray would not cause such problems as I think the O6 would be subject to a battery of medical tests after leaving the island. <br><br>Great episode, this season has truely pulled me back after a ho-hum 2nd and 3rd season (with the exception of the S3 finale).
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Thats pretty mean.
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Feb. 29, 2008, 11:22 a.m. CST
HOW Minkowski began time traveling? He must have been exposed to
by Shigeru
Yes Minkowski said that him and someone else (forget the name) took the chopper out because they "wanted to see the island", and had to turn back once forgot-his-name-guy started freaking out. Forgot-his-name-guy then went completely nuts and died, just like Minkowski eventually did. <br> There is a sphere of time-fucked stuff around the island, and the only way in/out is through a hole/weak point.
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From now on, they shall be Pesmond. Man, hell of an episode. Best one ever, maybe. Question - is it possible that Desmond, in his last feature episode, was having flash-fowards, and that would explain why he could tell people what was going to happen to them? I really need to watch this ep again and previous seasons.
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Thank you Lost.
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Feb. 29, 2008, 11:25 a.m. CST
Minkowski explained that he went out on his break towards
by Novaman5000
the island and got exposed. The friend he was with died.<p> Color me completely confused, though. Last night's episode totally fucked my mind. Question: <p> The time being 2004 on the freighter doesn't make sense to me, unless the calender is fake. Maybe the freighter knows that the survivors believe it's 2004, so they set the calendar there so as to not totally freak them out. I don't know.<p> I was expecting for Penny to be like, 'you're late'. I think she's been looking for him for 3 years because he never called her in 2004 and it's 2007 in her time. I just don't get the calendar. It being 2004 on the freighter just doesn't jive with anything thus far.<p>
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Honestly time moving faster on the outside world is a rad idea and a lot of fans ran with it, but the calendar pretty much disproves it. It's not a fake calendar.
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for example, when desmond jumps into his 1996 self, he takes over the conciousness. When he leaves, his 1996 self has no recollection of the events or what he did. Either that or he remembers doing it but doesn't really remember why. Like a dream that barely stays in your memory.<p> It seems that time travel, in this universe, is suscribing to the- everything happens once, then you can go back and change how it happens, but the outcome must always be the same. I don't know it's fucking confusing. I hope that Darlton is being really careful with their facts, because time travel is notoriously tricky to pull off without plot holes.
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great!
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It's ok. I'll find my constant eventually.
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Its already been semi-established that Faraday has short/long term memory lost. What was brilliant about the writing of this episode it not only showed us WHY Daniel's memory is wonky (notice Desmond ask him when putting on the shield before zapping Eloise why he doesn't wear a shield on his head--oh those absent minded professors...)but how it plays into the story how he wouldn't remember meeting Desmond in 96.
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Maybe they're not just flipping back and forth in time, but back and forth to other alternate realties (like the multiverse theory)? Might be why Faraday doesnt remember Desmond, he met him in another reality.
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This is the best episode to date, not necessarily in terms of drama...Charlie dying, etc....but pretty much everything else! This episode finally kills many theories...they're in Purgatory...and connects some dots. I loved it.
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Sorry if this is posted already but it's my little theory that I think has a lot of supporting evidence. I think you should pay attention to how these type of "side effects" have occured since the hatch implosion. The first we see of this is when Desmond turns the key, instantly after he has the same experience. The Swan was built to contain the electromagnetic charge of the island, likely to make for safe travel for the DHARMA people. Desmond releases the charge, thus making it dangerous once again. Your mention of Leonard and Danielle's crew is definitely interesting, but with my theory of the Swan protecting incoming/outgoing people it may conflict. I always thought Leonard was at one point just positioned at the Swan and went crazy from the repetative work. Also, Daniel mentions that the side effects change person to person, not everyone is catapaulted through time, Daniel may be speaking about himself when mentioning different kinds of side effects, since not remembering cards isn't something that looks like time travel. But now that past Daniel has a working time machine...well, he needs a constant and he's found it. Also, remember when Daniel said "light doesn't scatter quite right"? This episode we have confirmatin that the island time is slower/different than outside and light moves in relation to time right? Light moves at a speed, and time is slower causing light to scatter differently than the rest of the world.
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Feb. 29, 2008, 11:39 a.m. CST
I too wondered if being "unstuck in time" is the sickness
by Novaman5000
from the island. It makes sense... People who come there in open vessels get exposed to the radiation and get it.<p> To normal people it would seem as if they just went stark raving mad...<p> Also, loved the Widmore bidding on the book, bit. Was wondering if they were going to tell us in the show how the black rock and hanso were related and they did. Awesome. Now we also know how Widmore comes to find out about the island.
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Sorry if this is posted already but it's my little theory that I think has a lot of supporting evidence. <p> I think you should pay attention to how these type of "side effects" have occured since the hatch implosion. The first we see of this is when Desmond turns the key, instantly after he has the same experience. The Swan was built to contain the electromagnetic charge of the island, likely to make for safe travel for the DHARMA people. Desmond releases the charge, thus making it dangerous once again. <p> Your mention of Leonard and Danielle's crew is definitely interesting, but with my theory of the Swan protecting incoming/outgoing people it may conflict. I always thought Leonard was at one point just positioned at the Swan and went crazy from the repetative work. <p> Also, Daniel mentions that the side effects change person to person, not everyone is catapaulted through time, Daniel may be speaking about himself when mentioning different kinds of side effects, since not remembering cards isn't something that looks like time travel. But now that past Daniel has a working time machine...well, he needs a constant and he's found it. <p> Also, remember when Daniel said "light doesn't scatter quite right"? This episode we have confirmatin that the island time is slower/different than outside and light moves in relation to time right? Light moves at a speed, and time is slower causing light to scatter differently than the rest of the world.
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Feb. 29, 2008, 11:44 a.m. CST
But the freighter exists outside the thunderhead, so it should
by Novaman5000
be in normal time, right? Also, Faraday says that the way time passes on the island is not how time passes everywhere else, yet on the freighter, the time is exactly the same as it is on the island. Approximately 3 months after the crash of flight 815.<p> They haven't told us how long after the crash the fake wreckage was discovered, that would answer a lot of questions...
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So, why doesn't Desmond remember his future? Or rather, what happened to future Desmond? Is he gone for good? Either way, it was nice to see a great episode again. It seems like all the Desmond ones are good, just like all the Kate episodes are bad. Also, does this mean Locke can't leave the island without the same thing happening to him, given his proximity to the explosion (not that he ever would)?
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Since time passes different for people on the island vs. people in the 'real world'. Like how the children have aged one year in WWII England while in NARNIA hundreds of years pass. Dharma drops stop, sea vessels can't return and helicopter trips (while not impossible) are dangerous, all because Desmond pushed a button that 'unhinged' the island from the space/time continuum? Am I getting that right? Does the Jesus Lion still look ridiculus, Harry? BTW, I LOVE the commitment to paradox-free time travel that Damon & Carlton has made. My Fav Back To The Future was number 2 and still cringe every time future Biff returns to a Future he eliminated after giving 50's Biff the Almanac just to give Marty & Doc the DeLorean. I saw NO Paradox last night, unless the rat died before he could be trained in the future (can't send a consciousness into a future where there is no living body in which to learn the maze). Gonna rewatch to check on that one.
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Someone above posted that Des is the person in the coffin that Jack goes and visits. Well, he can't be one of the Oceanic 6 because he never was on Oceanic Flight 815. So, he could be a survivor in the flash forwards, but he wouldn't be an Oceanic 6 survivor. Des got to the island on a boat, not as part of the plane crash... Plus why would Des be in a coffin in L.A. in a predominately black neighborhood instead of London or somewhere in Great Britian.
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So...could Abaddon have been a slave on the ship who somehow got off island? He is a dark skinned mother...
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It was allowing safe travel for dharma by keeping the radiation levels low. I buy that. I don't know that that jives with all this sickness business people have suggested above. Didn't Danielle say that her team ran into a storm that night 16 years ago? Could have been the portal/radiation storm... Though why would there have been a portal if the radiation was being kept low by the swan? I just really hope the writers know what they're doing, there is so many ways to mess this up! I have faith, but damn.
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can someone tell me the exact process to insert line breaks in my posts? got a whopper theory i need to break down. thanks
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there's actually a deleted scene that shows old Biff disappearing after his little trip. not sure why it was cut but that woulda fixed that little hiccup somewhat.
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Minkowski said that the freighter was just waiting at the perimeter for a long time, and everyone eventually got bored. He said that he and some other guy decided to take a boat out to the island to see what it looked like. Both of them got sick, and the other guy was already dead. I like the theories posted by JBouganim1, except the biblical portions. Those parts sound like absolute nonsense. And, get a grip JBouganim1. You had a fine post if you hadn't kept spamming it. Now you seem like a douche. And for those complaining about paradox, I don't think it's possible to have time travel coupled with character agency without having paradox. That said, they did a pretty good job keeping it to a minimum, for example by positing that people simply "forget" any events that would cause paradox, such a Faraday's meeting with Hume.
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Ugh, when is this place going to install some real forum software instead of this amateurish nonsense. Just get vBulletin or phpBB. The latter is even free. Anyway, above post as intended... <br><br> Minkowski said that the freighter was just waiting at the perimeter for a long time, and everyone eventually got bored. He said that he and some other guy decided to take a boat out to the island to see what it looked like. Both of them got sick, and the other guy was already dead. <br><br> I like the theories posted by JBouganim1, except the biblical portions. Those parts sound like absolute nonsense. And, get a grip JBouganim1. You had a fine post if you hadn't kept spamming it. Now you seem like a douche. <br><br> And for those complaining about paradox, I don't think it's possible to have time travel coupled with character agency without having paradox. That said, they did a pretty good job keeping it to a minimum, for example by positing that people simply "forget" any events that would cause paradox, such a Faraday's meeting with Hume.
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which was wrong. 315 or 325 (can't remember exactly) is the only way to safely leave the island. Faraday says that if they don't leave exactly right... there will be side effects. 305 wasn't quite right, hence desmond going nutso.
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cmon novaman, burgerking, darkocity. some one help a brother out.
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Type a p enclosed by the carrot brackets < and >.
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I was in a tackback room filled with people dedicated to the study/review of a TV show. There was a pa, the Military Police, we watched PBS change before our eyes, etc. I feel like I'm slipp...<P> There it was again. And it was a room with the number 23 on the door. It was constant, but now it's gone...except when I go back. I'm here now, but there are people here I don't know. I need something familiar. Something constant between there and here.<P> Help before I.........
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So what did the white horse represent and how is Leland both himself and bob at the same time? wtf?
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Feb. 29, 2008, 12:03 p.m. CST
Did anyone think minkowski was going to have a bigger part?
by Novaman5000
That bitch died so fast.
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test haiku<p> sweet evangeline<p> bring that sexy frame to me<p> we will make a child.
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computers are fun...
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now i know how to line break. i got a few more eps to watch then i'm gonna slap a theory down that's going to implode this forum! until then, gotta go.
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in my office this morning. I thought it would turn alot of people off. Only one of my friends was like "that's stupid". haha
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I have played through episode 3 of the game. SPOILERS if you dont want to know what happens. <p> Not too much excitement. It opens with your character awakenig after being clubbed by Tom and stuck by Juliet. You awake on the beach and find out from Hurley that "Steve or Scott) was killed and Claire was stuck with a needle. <p> Your goal is to repair your laptop, to help recover your memory. After talking to Sayid you find that Locke has your battery. After talking to him, he tells you you dont need to recover your past. "The island gives you a fresh start." <p> You still want your battery so it launches into a flashback. During this you see Locke trying to sell back his camping gear from the walkabout at a pawn shop. You see him in his wheelchair. Your character then uses this to blackmail Locke into giving you the laptop battery. He tells you to follow him into the jungle. <p> After wandering around the jungle you come across the Hatch, dug up and exposed. Nothing to do with it so you continue on until you find a cave. Locke gives a Star Wars speech about finding in the cave what you take in it. <p>After wandering through the cave you see the visions of the dead girl again. Eventually you find a skeleton holding a compass. Locke makes you give him the compass. <p> After examining the compass Locke tells you the island gives you things, saying "The island gave me the Hatch to share with everyone, when the time comes". He then tells you the island gave your character the compass. <p> The compass is old and has the words "Via Domus" written on it, which Locke explains means the way home in Latin. The compass works similar to the one in pirates of the Caribean, it doesn't point North, I guess it points to what you need, or what you need to do to get home. <p> LOST...end episode 3
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there's no way we've seen the last of minkowski. there's gotta be some back story there.
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a course of 315 on the boat when they left...yet the hellicopter cheat sheet written by faraday said to follow a heading of 305...so where did ben send michael and walt??
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The movie was complete shit but the book was pretty interesting in the way it tried to explain the possibility of time travel. In the book, time travel isn't exactly possible. What is possible is alternate universe travel to multiverse timelines that are identical to each other except are not running concurrently. So when you go back 50 years, you are actually travelling to another dimension that is 50 years behind our time. Which kind of makes sense because how can time in one universe exist as a destination? This theory kind of explains why paradoxes do not occur...You aren't actually in your past, you're in an alternate universe.<p> It's a possibility that Lost time travel operates this way but I doubt Darlton will ever fully spell out the mechanics of time travel in the show...way too complicated for the general audience.
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still, didn't expect him to die. Not that i mind, but it was just a surprise. I think I actually said outloud "Oh no way!" when he bit it, too.
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If David Tennant ever decides to leave. Would that not be awesome? He's got Tennats charm, Ecceston's coolness. Bit of that Doctor's I've-got-a-secret thing going. I think He'd be perfect for the role.
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Evil Desmond with a beard Good Desmond cleanshaven Evil Jack with a beard Good Jack cleanshaven Good Michael before he became a cold blooded scumbag murder - cleanshaven Evil scumbag Michael - Beard Evil Spock - beard Good Spock - cleanshaven Evil Cartman - beard Good Cartman - Cleanshaven Tom Cruise and John Travolta both evil have beards (the hollywood kind) Beware the beard.
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google 'html paragraph break' and use the tag that comes up in between your paragraphs.
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That would be freaky, especially since Watts apparently commited suicide in 1999. I want to see the episode where it's revealed he and Locke were seperated at birth. Plus, it'd be a good way to get Lance Henriksen's Frank Black on tv again.
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I agree with the alternate reality theory, I posted earlier reagrding that same theory. Why are we seeing wo different Jacks in the future, the bearded crazy Jack and the Jack who is called to the witness stand for Kate. I think we are seeing two different possible future realties changing as the current storyline is changing.
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robots and Anthony Perkins and Maxemillian Schell.
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If we are taling about jumping back and forth in time, somehow the two Jacks overlapped.
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I'm surprised no one on this board has mentioned it yet, but tonight's episode referenced the entire plotline from Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, which is about a guy who becomes "unstuck in time" and can travel backwards and forwards, even being able to witness his own death 30-something years in the future and then jump back. It gets so bad that he just sits in a room all day while it happens... it's been about 10 years since I read it, but that book was definitely an inspiration and I bet last season's Desmond time traveling episode will make much more sense now, at least to me. They even use the "unstuck in time" expression in tonight's episode.
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Let the man sex begin!
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Somebody head down to Chink's Alley and bring back Wu. Cause if I'm ever gonna fuckin' understand this time travelin' business these people are shovelin', I'm gonna need Wu and his fuckin' charcoal drawings to figure it the fuck out.
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that's pretty interesting and of course possible. i don't know if the writers would do that tho, concerning the flash forwards. it would kind of be a cop out to say, all these flash forwards are possible realities. I read in an interview that Calrton and Damon said they don't believe in showing something and doing a take-back by saying this is only a possibility. they said they think its unfair to the audience by doing things like this.<p> the theory from the Chricton book was my suggestion to explain how Desmond was time travelling to the past. however, the more i think about that Darlton interview the more I am second guessing this theory. Because it would have to apply to all time travel on the show such as the Orchid orientation video...aaaahhhh my head is going to explooooode! <p>side note: speaking of the orchid film, anyone notice how marvin candle flipped out about the two rabbits being so near each other? he was yelling 'get them away' from each other or something like that...you think there are any crazy side effects of the same object touching itself in the past a la 'Timecop'?
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this was even better then finale of Season 3. I agree with Moriarty about "driving up the hill". Gee, I got realy scared for Des' live. This Widmore guy is probably playing a big role in all of this. But, if I ever get lost big time, I need to call Sayid for help. Anyone has his number? *stacking up batteries...
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The Desmond is my constant. Maybe it's a third party that wrote, like Penny's father obsessed by hate, or future Locke who wants to know what Des knows, or Charlie. Even Jacob. Penny's father could be in on the Economist storyline. and that could expolain why Naomi had Penelope's picture even though Penelope didn't know about her.
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Feb. 29, 2008, 12:51 p.m. CST
Ben is a member of the Brotherhood of the Crucifant Sword
by Mel Gibsteinberg
That's the "Brotherhood of the Crucifant Sword" if the title was cut. Remember the religous fanatics protecting the grail from the evil Nazi's? I think that is Ben's group, and Widmore and his ilk represent the Nazi's, or as Dr. Jones senior explains, "the armieshe of darknesh which will march over thish world." <P> Ben's group will stop at nothing to protect the Island. It has a mystical power that man has sought after for years, and now the war is heating up. Just my thoughts.
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I am expecting Jack to find Ben and at some point pin him against some chopping blade of death, holding them down to both meet their doom unless Ben talks. But Ben explains "My SOUL IS PREPARED! How is yours?"
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They don't show it, but I assume that Faraday trained the rat like he said, an hour from the time she runs it. When next we see Past Faraday, he says it's been 75 minutes since Des went catatonic. So I'm guessing that Past Faraday trained the rat to run the maze and then shortly thereafter she died. Which leaves him about 15 minutes to successfully train her. Assuming that he sticks to his schedule. I don't know much about rat training, so I'm willing to let it go. Sure, he can train her in time before she dies.
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Faraday says it himself, and it echoes the old woman. The future can not be changed.
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I think that was one of the best, most subtle "holy shit!" moments of the show. Penny implies that she might not have kept faith if "your friend Charlie" hadn't told her about the island. Between that and Hurley's flash-forward, what the hell is going on with Charlie?
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How can you train a rat to run a maze if she already knows how to run it?<p> Time Travel is confusing.
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Your friend Charlie was in reference to the transmission WE ALL SAW in the season finale of last season. There is no wow factor...
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In the S3 finale.
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I think that was a plothole that Michael Chricton kind of just glossed over and ignored. I really can't remember an explanation being given.
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Doesn't the mouse dying contradict Faraday's statement that you can't change the future? The mouse died *before* it could learn the maze, thus suggesting that the future can be changed. So is this the idea? There are no alternate realities, just closed loops of possiblilities that never came to be?
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I was going to mention Slaughterhouse Five but I read the talkback and it is mentioned 3 or 4 times. Its alos mentioned in the EW Lost article on the episode.
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The "pre" mouse cannot know the maze, only the "post" mouse can. In order for Eloise to suddenly know the maze, it is necessary that the "future" Eloise is the one shifting in time, occupying her "past" body, and running the maze. Another apparent paradox is that the mouse dies, so when was she taught the maze? Apparently during Desmond's trance, which lasted over an hour; F. was going to teach her the maze in "an hour".
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I sent this to a friend via email, but I figure why not give you guys a chance to shoot it full of holes, too. Apologies if the formatting gets screwed up.<p> <p> Ok, this is almost 100% certain to be crap, but since I can't stick with a theory for more than a week (if that long), it's my new pet theory. <p> <p> Facts: <p> <p> Faraday told Frank to follow a specific heading. Last night we saw that that specific heading (according to the map and the instruments) was 305. Drifting off of that even a little bit caused Desmond to become unstuck in time. <p> <p> In "Live Together, Die Alone", the finale of Season 2, Michael and Walt are leaving the island and Ben tells them to follow heading 325 and they will find rescue. <p> <p> Ben may lie outright some of the time, but even more often what he means is not what you hear. <p> <p> Walt still exists in the universe of the show and it has been acknowledged that he has changed and is taller. (Resulting in the wonderful line, "Who are we to argue with taller, ghost Walt?" but unfortunately, that's off topic.) <p> <p> Despite Walt's changes, we know that it is December of 2004 on the island, on the freighter and in London, indicating that time dilation issues happen when entering or leaving the island, and that time on the island itself is pretty much the same as off the island. <p> <p> Michael is coming back. <p> <p> Ben has a man on the freighter. <p> <p> Ben has the ability to convince people who hate him and don't trust him to work for him for the supposed greater good. <p> <p> Ben has the ability to produce things (e.g. Locke's father, information on everyone on the plane) from practically out of nowhere with almost no warning. <p> <p> Complete conjecture: <p> <p> If moving away from a 305 can cause one to have "side effects" as experienced by Desmond, perhaps going to certain other headings can allow for more specific changes. If one were to go to 325 perhaps rather than becoming unstuck in time, one would move back in time a certain amount. <p> <p> Ben, knowing that Walt and Michael were important, sent them away but not back home. By sending them to 325 instead of 305, he caused them to leave the island and arrive at their destination in the past. <p> <p> A few years in the past, Ben meets up with Michael and convinces him that the people on the island are in danger and that only he can do anything about it. Michael, eager for redemption for betraying his friends, agrees. <p> <p> Jumping forward what I'm guessing is a couple years (of Michael and Walt time), the freighter arrives, bringing with it Ben's man, Michael, who has been preparing for this since he left the island. <p> <p> Meanwhile, Walt will have aged two years physically by being sent back and living in the past.<p> <p>Assumptions: <p> <p> Bodily time travel is possible in addition to consciousness travel. <p> <p> Present Ben is able to travel or to influence past Ben in some way. This would explain both the information gathering, which would need to have started before the crash, and the abduction of Locke's father. (Maybe past Ben simply works by accepting instructions from Jacob which will make no sense until some time in the future.)
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Problem with that theory is when they got off course and landed Des was the only one affected. Sayid was fine. Frank too. Des was affected because he was exposed to EM.<P> Walt and Michael were not...at least up to the point where we saw them boat away.<P> IMO
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So it's possible that when Des on the freigter made contact with Penny, past Des does not remember anything else.
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Nothing in Penny's apt suggests that. Though who knows. She says she's been looking for him for 3 years, and hasn't he been missing for 3 years? I'm totally fucking confused now. Before I thought it could be 2007 because she mentions she was looking for him for 3 years, but now im thinking that she was looking for him cuz he had crashed 3 years prior, gone missing, etc. But I don't get it. I was expecting there to be more to this time travel. If the island time is moving differently, but the rest of the world is on the same time... Then the island isn't moving any differently, really, is it? What's the significance??
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So have fun with it but stop dredging it for possible clues to the show. Cuse, Lindelof and Abrams did not really have much to do with the story. <br><br> Also, did anyone notice that the Lot number for the black rock logbook was "2342"? kinda cool. <br><br> Finally, why did Widmore leave the faucet running and stoppered? It was obviously on purpose.
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Desmond promised that he would call Christmas Eve, 2004. He and Penny make reference to that conversation during the phone call, don't they? If it isn't 2004, wouldn't there be some mention of that? She's been looking for him for 3 years because he went on the race and went missing 3 years ago.
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The mouse learned the maze either way. So nothing changed.
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When Desmond's consciousness goes back in time as it did in this episode and Flashes Before Your Eyes, do his changes affect the 'actual' timeline or is it just meaningless in an alternate timeline? It seems that a lot of you think that he does affect the timeline or at least he was always meant to travel back in time like that, sort of like Harry Potter time travel. I was under the impression that Desmond's back in time events don't actually change the way things happened in the actual timeline in the present. <p> In other words, when Desmond called Penny did Penny know he was going to call because he told her in the actual timeline? Or when Desmond got Penny's number in the past, that wasn't the actual timeline so it never actually happened. So she wouldn't have any idea that he would be calling? <p> I had always assumed the latter. You can go back in time, but it doesn't change anything. And all you can really do is acquire knowledge that may help you in your decisions in the actual timeline. But it seems a lot of people think it's the other way, Harry Potter time travel rules
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Man i would have shit myself.<p> Anyway my point is, it probably is 2004, but I don't get it. How is the island moving at a different timespeed if it's in sync with the freighter AND london.... Maybe Desmond is calling her in 2004, but in real life it's later. MAN I just don't know.
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Well it's not really the "post mouse" that learns it. It's the pre-mouse's mind which occupies the post-mouses body when gone through time. Similar to how Army Desmond know to find Faraday because Faraday spoke to Island Desmond. It's just the conciousness that travels, allowing for it to be possible. <p> We know that Faraday is wrong that the future can't be changed. We saw Desmond change the future numerous times when saving Charlie. However, as Desmond was once told, the universe has a way of course correcting itself. Therefore, while the future can be changed in the short term, the end result will ALWAYS happen no matter what. The mouse would learn the maze whether or not it went through time, it's death was the result of having no constant, despite the fact that it only travelled through an hour (presumably), however the small mouse brain may not be able to take the same quantum pounding as a human brain can take.
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"How can you train a rat to run a maze if she already knows how to run it?"<p> Leave my brain alone!!!
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Faraday's ray gun made the trained mouse come backward in time while the electricity storm made Desmond from the past come forward in time. That is a huge difference. My guess it has something to do with calculations he set for his raygun.
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it's true the game isn't canon, but Darlton did oversee much of the storyline and design and everything was subject to their stamp of approval. They even gave the developers the actual blueprint for the hatch to recreate it specifically to what they used as canon. What is found behind the magnetic wall is really what Darlton meant for it to be. But none of the things from the game really reveal anything new to the show and the ending is very strange and im kind of glad that it isn;t canon, cuz it's a COP OUT!
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Someone asked above - why Des could remember stuff before in Flashes, but not this time. It's because instead of Des of today traveling back, with all the knowledge he has accumulated over time - the Des of the PAST, the one still active in the army (roughly 8 years ago), that CONSCIOUSNESS traveled forward in time to Des' freighter brain. 8 years of accumulated knowledge just GONE. I know I'd be confused. I'd still be in grad school with visions of a high paying job. HA! <p> Maxwell - I'm done with you. But for the last time, the Eko/Yemi thing was a possible Easter Egg, not a theory. I have screen shots on my computer and the resemblence is eerie. It's fine if you don't agree. But it was the way you didn't agree thay made you sound like an ass. That pompous, cute little story of how I insinuated-because there was a picture of a black kid, I must assume all blacks look alike since I thought it might be Eko. Which sounded self-rightous and silly. Again, like with so many others - it's not what you believe, it's how you express it. You can disagree without pulling a krycek and being insulting. I may not be all that intelligent - but I am well educated. Has to count for something. I'm not a smart man, Jenny - but I know what love is.
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Feb. 29, 2008, 1:47 p.m. CST
Ok so the rat makes sense if we think about it this way.
by Novaman5000
The rat that runs the maze is the future rat's conciousness popped into the present rat's body for a short period time. After the maze is run, the conciousness pops back into the future, and the present rat is left as her old self, totally ignorant of the maze, and possibly that anything out of the oridinary happened at all. The knowledge doesn't stay with the present rat. It pops back into the future when the conciousness pops back into the future.
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Has anyone else brought this up...I'm sort of surprised he died last night, although I know that on Lost, like in comic books, no one stays dead forever. But it seemed weird to me. They've put Fisher Stevens on the opening credits all season, there was an announcement about his casting and it seemed to be a major one and then he appears on screen in one episode and dies? even if he's coming back in flashbacks that sort of seems anti-climactic. how many times can he pop up in a flashback if it can only be about the freighter crew?
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Ultimately, everything that has to happen, will happen. It's just the HOW that changes.
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Fantastic book, great read. The translations of Occitan and thediagrams of the photon/slits in board experiment - wonderful elements never explored in that abortion of a movie. The ability of a quantum computer - staggering. It amazes me how Hollywood can take great reads of Crichton (Sphere, Congo, Timeline,) and destroy them. Jurrsic was well done. Eaters of the Dead wasn't bad. Sill waiting for a remake of the Andromeda Strain. Prey would make a great movie if done right. I'd like to see Terminal Man made into a series. Maybe when they finally put ER out of it's misery. Working on "Next" right now. So far - not his best.
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the rat learns how to run the maze, and suddenly goes into a coma state because he gets transported to the past, to presumably run the maze in his yougner self for desmond and faraday. he either never wakes up because he can't handle the trip or dies almost immediately after he returns from the past due to the disorientation.
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Spoilers I guess? <p> It looks like Faraday is in a hatch, which we can guess is the Orchid with a buzzer like The Swan. Insane.
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If Daniel says you can't change the future why did Mrs. Hawking tell Desmond he can't get married or "all of us will die."<p> It's possible that this episode is the best time travel one ever but it still logically breaks down.
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I don't know if this has been talked about before. Is it posible that last episode offered a big clue on the nature of the monster. It could have been designed to create constants. We do know that it has ben shapeshifting into people from the characters past. At one point, someone (Dharma or another group) may have tried to solve the problem of people getting unstuck in time by creating constants on the island. Of course it went terribly wrong and turned into the monster. Might explain the sickness of Rousseau's people also (didn' t enter the island properly, so most of them got unstuck in time). Rousseau didn't go crazy because she had a constant (Alex, don't remember if she was born off or on the island) ....
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Chricton books are very entertaining. It's true Hollywood completely rapes these adaptations. I loved Sphere as a book but the movie was painful. Last I heard a studio bought the rights to Airframe, which doesn't seem like it would make a very exciting film.
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Carlton and Cuse have said that the flash-forwards are meant to tell their own linear story, and that they're not messing around with alternate realities and such. They specifically referenced the theory that Sayid's flash forwards were told out of sequence (did the man he murder at the beginning occur after he killed Elsa?) and how, just like every other episode arc, that story was told in chronological order. so I'm thinking that there is only one Jack, and that Beardy Jack is just Witness Jack a few years down the road.
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Timeline really did explain it well. Say you wanted to kill your Dad before you were born. That might sound easy in theory, but the universe would not allow it. Maybe you look him in the face and cannot pull the trigger Maybe you miss. The gun jams. Someone notices your gun and stops you. So it is not as easy in practice as it is in theory. <p> You want the Yankees to lose the World Series. What can 1 person really do? Shoot the #1 pitcher? His replacement might shine. Run on to the field to kill them all - someone would stop you. Plant a bomb...ok, everyone dies...but the Yankees still don't lose. They replay the game in a year and the Yankees still win. One person change history in a significant way - NO. A group of people maybe. But not an individual.
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Question - do his changes affect the 'actual' timeline or is it just meaningless in an alternate timeline?<P> It more like what Dan tells Des in the past. You can't change the future. I just listened to the podcast and D&C said they are not doing that type of paradox...where if you change something in the past the future changes. So it seems in their point of view we are fated to a conclusion regardless of our actions.<P> It also seems to go along the Des/Charlie line. No matter what des did to save Charlie, eventually he was going to die. About the only thing Des changed was he died honorably. In other words he changed the reason but not the outcome.
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i hate Carlton and Cuse. Damon and Lindelof are alot more fun. <p> just playing- don;t mean to flame or anything like that ;)
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You are right. I read the same article. Matthew Fox stated bearded/junkie Jack is roughly one 1/2 years from the point of 815's crash. Rescued in 4 months...so 14 months for the events with Hurley and Kate's trial. And Jack had definately deteriated by TTLG, was having morning screwdrivers(albeit weak) in BOTE and told Jack he was thinking of a beard. So TTLG is 14 mo after rescue, beard had to be started about what, 9 mo or so after rescue. That means Kate's trial was definately fast-tracked.
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* Smoke Monster as artificial constants (don't think its true, but GOOD THEORY!!)<BR> <BR> * Being unstuck in time is the same as Rousseau's 'sickness' (GOOD THEORY!!)<BR> <BR> * Alternate reality Jack is in the coffin (BAD THEORY!! DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT!!)
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So Desmond gets unstuck in time and is able to travel back and forth in conscience only. And we know the universe is made up of space and time, what if there is a way to get unstuck in space, where matter resides? Would this mean they would be able to physically move back and forth, and could somehow explain my Jack is in the coffin theory?
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Not a bad whodunnit, but not worth a movie! Shit. I heard they were remaking Andromeda - guess not. Prey would be a MUCH better adaption. But you are right alex, Hollywood will screw it up anyway. Timeline was a ready-made film if they simply followed the book. I actually thought Timeline would make an AWESOME series. Using the machines to do a "trip of the week" somewhere/sometime. Hey Bonnie Hanmmer - you listening?
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Not a bad whodunnit, but not worth a movie! Shit. I heard they were remaking Andromeda - guess not. Prey would be a MUCH better adaption. But you are right alex, Hollywood will screw it up anyway. Timeline was a ready-made film if they simply followed the book. I actually thought Timeline would make an AWESOME series. Using the machines to do a "trip of the week" somewhere/sometime. Hey Bonnie Hammer - you listening?
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Maxwell's Hammer: full-time elitist LOST asshole, part-time dumbass. Oh, the shame.
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So its not an alternatereality Jack, its actually himself two places at once. I remember something about two rabbits and them not supposed to touch each other, anyone else remember that?
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So its not an alternatereality Jack, its actually himself two places at once. I remember something about two rabbits and them not supposed to touch each other, anyone else remember that?
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After 3 years, my first double post. DRINKS ON ME!
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cant be possible, ditching my own theory
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Then why does Mrs. Hawking feel it's so important for Desmond not to marry Penelope? That implies that Desmond COULD HAVE done it if he wanted to. It was not set. Either Darlton messed up having her say that or one of Faraday/Mrs. Hawking is lying for some random reason.
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Orchid training video released at Comic-con. You-Tube it
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is part of that course correction. she isn't actually a person but a manifestation of the universe policing itself? geez i think i just my own eyes roll..
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I am a Chricton fan too, but I have to warn you. I've read Next and it is very unsatisfying. I kept reading waiting for it to get good but it doesn't. I also started reading State of Fear, but never finished it. Anyone else read that and know if it is worth finishing?
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Used to be my all time favorite author but sadly I couldn't finish State of Fear either...Never had the chance to pick up Next. I started to get into more prissy stuff like Neil Gaiman and now I'm all about heart. <- homo
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Never posted here before, but got inspired by last night's amizing episode. Here is a theory: 1) I believe the island exists in a wormhole. a wormhole is a hypothetical topological feature of spacetime that is basically a 'shortcut' through space and time. A wormhole has at least two mouths which are connected to a single throat or tube. If the wormhole is traversable, matter can 'travel' from one mouth to the other by passing through the throat. While there is no observational evidence for wormholes, spacetimes containing wormholes are known to be valid solutions in general relativity. I think it is like the bermuda triangle. You can get into a wormhole, but it is only open through a very narrow gap. So you can be looking out over an ocean, but the island will not be visable unless you go through the wormhole and come out the otherside. It is not that the island does not exist, it was never discovered, because it exists in a place in the world where time and space are in flux and the only way to the island is an exact corridance. N. 305. This is the course that Faraday gave Frank (the pilot) and this is same cooridinates that Ben gave to Michael and Walt. And once entering the wormhole, there is no way out unless you follow the exact corridance back, so anyone who landed on the island are destined not to be found, because you could be flying over the island and not see it because you are not looking through the wormhole. 2) I think that travelling through the wormhole could have very serious consequences to you, like with Desmond, it can bend space and time and transport your consciousness back and forwards in time. The experiment Faraday ran with the rat, was that he used radiation and preassure to create a vortex, like a mini wormhole, where the rats consciousness traveled forward an hour, and remember learning a maze, in the present time that it hadn't learned yet. 3) This is what happended to Desmond when the Hatch exploded. I believe the hatch was a machine built by the Dharma Initiative to harness the unique time/space bending properties on the island to assist in teleportation and time travel experiments. When Desmond did not punch the button the first time, it released all on the built up energy opening the wormhole, just as flight 815 was flying through it, crashing the plane, and making the island visable until he hit in the numbers. The second time desmond did not hit the button with Locke, he hit the failsafe key which instead of releasing all of the energy outward, caused the hatch to implode, and desmond to be zapped by the energy, his consciousness to travel forward in time and giving him that ability to know something that would happen in the future (Charlie's death), just like the rat knew the maze. 4) I also think the hatch regulated time on the island to match time to the outside world. Once the hatch imploded, time is moving much slower on the Island than in the rest of the world, which is why the rocket took so long to get there and the helicopter took so long to get to the freighter. I thing that the Oceanic 6 might get off the isalnd and it might have been years since they left, but when the go back, it could be just a matter of months for the people left on the island. This will be used to explain why the next time we see Walt he is older, is because he has been living off island and time moves faster off isalnd now that the hatch was destroyed. 5) I believe that Tovar Hanso was a sailer on the blackrock, which crashed on the island and he lived there, but somehow managed to get off, and then write about the island and its unique capabilites. His descendants Alvar Hanso used his ancestors journal to find the island, and to have scientist conduct experiments on the island, I believe Charles Widmore, was a partner in the Hanso Foundation and knows of the island and its existance, but not its exact wherebouts and was bidding on Tovar Hanso's journal in 1996 either to help him find the island after they lost contact with it after the purge, or to stop others from finding it. I also think that Rosseou (The french lady) traveled throught the wormhole, all her crew mates experiencing what desmond experienced (why she was immune, i don't know) the would all go crazy (like she said) and get nose bleeds and die from Brain anuerisms (like she said, they got sick) I also think that from thier experiments, something happened to a scientist named Jacob, where he is lost is space and time, always shifting in his shack. Sometimes he is visable and sometimes he is not. Ben has been using Jacob, because being lost in time, he will know the future, allowing Ben to manipulate the info he provides, and all ways be a steo ahead of everyone else. The whispers that we hear on the island sometimes are echos of past conversations that inhabitants on the island once had that are travelling to time and space and can be heard, only on teh occasions in fluxations with the islands environment, which is probably only when Jacob's cabin can be visable, which is why it was not there for Locke I loved last nights episode. IT just gets better and better.
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When Mrs. Hawking originally appeared the writers did not have all of the details of the time distortion worked out yet so they had her do the cliched "This has to happen!" time travel bit. It created the tension of never having married Penelope. <p>Also, last night's episode doesn't jive with Desmond rescuing Charlie two or three times last season. If you can't change the future then why COULD he even save Charlie? The writers need to decide...free will or predestination. They are mutually exclusive.<p>The assumption that you can't change the future but you can delay it a little isn't logical. What defines "a little?"
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http://tinyurl.com/2e3oh7
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http://tinyurl.com/2e3oh7
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I think Mrs. Hawkings' point was that you can change the details, but the end result will always be the same.<BR> <BR> ex: 1) he saved charlie a few times, but eventually, he would die, 2) he ended up buying the ring, but ended up losing the nerve to actually continue the relationship with Penny
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I've read some of Gaiman and I'm not sure how i feel about him. I read American Gods and wasn't sure if I liked it or was just happy to have finished reading it. Now I'm reading Anasai Boys and it is pretty entertaining. Still not sure if I'm a Gaiman fan or not.
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What decides what the important "end results" are and what the un-important details are? The universe doesn't care whether a dude dies or whether Hurley gets his peanut butter in Sawyer's chocolate. <p>It's not like these writers on this show are the first to ever work out a coherent time travel story. I would argue that it's impossible.
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Thats a crazy video with a lot of weird stuff on the films background,anyone else notice. Noew im convinced thats Jack in the coffin.
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agree Desmond and Penelope = Deselope????? <p> Why?? <p> Because if Jack ever fools around with her, we have a..... <p> JACKALOPE Ba-Ding-Ding <p> <p> tap...tap...tap <p> Is this thing on?
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Charles Widmore bid on and won the ship journal, which the auctioneer emphasized has not been read or opened by anyone since it was first found. That looks way too much like a set-up for a plot line that will be addressed later. (Perhaps 1996 Desmond will have to get his hands on it, and maybe Widmore will use it himself in regards to the island.)<p><p>I think that scene also hinted as to who the "original" Others are/were (the crew of the Black Rock).<p><p> This episode also suggested what happened to Danielle's crew.<p><p>Overall, great episode that started to tie several threads together and hinting at more connections and answers to come. I even found myself getting choked up when Desmond and Penelope finally spoke to one another -- and I'm not typically into romance stories.
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MHammer's right. The not changing the future thing is not changing the outcome. i.e. Charlie was going to die. des didn't/couldn't change the outcome. He allowed Charlie to die for a noble reason.
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It is not Jack in the coffin. It is impossible for him to be there. He is the one that eventually meets the coffin maker. http://tinyurl.com/2e3oh7
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Future rat jumps back and forth through time until it dies. The old rat, the one ignorant of the maze doesn't ever get to come back and be trained, because without a constant it dies.
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Its not Jack. No spoilers, not gonna touch this (intimately). But it is not Jack. #1 That would create a paradox. #2. We find out who is in the coffin in a couple of episodes. Having it be Jack would lose half the fans of Lost. Darlton Knows this.
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That help Epictetus?
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after more consideration, i agree it can't be Jack. Back to square one.
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It's been done before: see "Doctor Arzt" - insinuate a new character only to set up a surprise. See also Lou Diamond Phillips' appearance in Season 1 of "24".
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Gaiman is completely different animal than Chricton. I read Chricton for the clever techno thriller plots. But his novels have zero characterization. It's all about spiraling action. Most of his books read like movies... <p>Gaiman on the other hand is an acquired taste. His books are more like fables and he isn't concerned with reality- he's concerned with themes, and character development, and emotional impact (god im a homo). he's a writer's writer. You should check out his two short story collections, Smoke and Mirrors and Fragile Things. My favorite stories of his are out of these anthologies. And I am still waiting for the Good Omens adaptation to be made.....!
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Good to have a constant, though
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and than run like hell. Node - we all have our literary tastes. I rather enjoyed State of Fear. And - Global Warming is bad science. #2 - the boogie men were a little goofy, but if you think there are not tribes still practicing cannibalism - wiki his references in the back of the book. Wiki the dozens of scientific studies he uses to support "global warming as a world crisis" as being bunk. If you have the time sometime. You will be suprised. I was. Crichton is a fucking neurosurgeon who meticulously researches his books (look at his reference page in any of his books). Just sayin. Check it out sometime. And full-disclosure...I found so much research debunking global warming as "ohmygodohmygodohmygod crisis" years ago as part of a master's research project - so I already had a bias. When I read the book, he just wrote about what I already believed so its no wonder I liked it. If you support a "global warming crisis theory" the book will offend. That's why Hollywood came crashing down on him despite his pedigree and reamed him a new one. Also why you'll never see a movie version. Not his best work anyway.
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You begin on the island Alone, your girl companion of your past you find out in your journey was killed because of a choice you made. During your stint on the island your character changes to the point where you wouldn't sacrafice anyone. You then leave the island with a bearing of 135 degrees. As you are leaving the island you look up into the air and see the crashing Oceanic Flight 815 Above your head. You then wake up again, on the beach, right after the wreck happened. Only this time, your companion that was dead and haunting your whole previous time on the island is with you.. After seeing tonights episode, I am taking it as when he left the island his consiousness was transported back in time. He then made the choice to save his friend instead of let her die, and thus The whole events of the game never transpired, and he's back on the island, now Anchored in time by his constant.
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please bear with me. it's my first crack so it's bound to have holes. there's still some things that i can't explain but i like this crowd and want to hear what you think. this will be fragmented.<p> the island is a singularity of sorts. not in the sense of the theorized "singularity" from hawking and origins of the big bang stuff. it exists in two distinct realities. one reality, the reality we know, is the reality in which 1996 des was. this was the reality that the 815 survivors came from. the other reality is the island's universe. at the center of this universe is a deity and that deity is the island.<p> LOST yet?<p> now. what this does (in a very cheap shortcut kind of way) is explain automatically almost every anomaly that we have seen on the island. the truth is, the mystery of DI, hanso, polar bears, smoke monsters, character connections, hostiles, natives, stations, it is all part of the mythology of the island. it needs no explanation. imagine the island as a deity who sits in a bath tub (it's reality) and plays with it's toys.<p> now, the island exists in our reality as a place with various scientific anamolies and is located in the south pacific but is nearly impossible to find because it spends most of its time off the coast hidden off the coast of madagascar in the island reality. their are two doors to this singularity. one in the pacific and one of the coast of africa.<p> now, let's talk about what DOES exist both in the island's reality and our reality. Desmond exists in both. The electromagnetic properties of the island are real and these properties are the engine of the singularity. Desmond has become able to exist in both realities, but never at the same time. same with minkowski<p> Walt exists in both. He is special. It has something to do with the fucked up electromagnetic shit that goes on with him that makes birds kamikaze themselves because they have no idea where they are going.<p> Ben Linus travels between both realities, but he does it physically. This is because he doesn't need to use any bearing to get in and out. he uses the "magic box" that daniel farraday created, which he took by either force or stealth. danny did it! he created a machine that could transport both mind and body between both realities.<p> Here are some things that might suprise you to know DON'T exist outside of the island's reality. First off, many of the experiences we've seen the characters have in flashbacks just didn't happen that way in our universe. personal experiences that shaped who these characters are happened, but the interconnectivity was never real. i.e. christian shepherd having a convo with sawyer in sydney back in season one. never happened in our reality. nor in sawyers. the island gave him that memory. that is part of the island's reality and thus those memories were fabricated. The DI never existed in our reality. Neither did Hanso. Now, the hanso that went there on the black rock did exist. It was his diary that made it possible for Mr. Widmore to get that freighter to the island because there was a bearing or directions or something in there. and the diary was sold at auction by someone who's been sneaking behind ben's back on the island (richard? since he has been off the island to get juliet, they are a crossover character too). the oceanic six got home by farraday's machine, that's why they don't have the fucked up consciousness shifting.<p> now, my theory is going to stop there for now and i'm just going to do some rebuttals with questions that arise to see if it holds. but lastly, here's some fun things that support my theory.<p> the numbers exist only in the island reality. did you notice mr. widmores bidder ID number at the auction was 755. the other bidder number was something else but neither number had anything to do with THE numbers. (i'm sure some of you will give me some way of making it to the numbers from 755, but hey you can find SOME way back to any set of numbers). that's because in that reality, those numbers don't mean anything. now, the numbers did work their way into that universe but only when it had to do with the island. like hanso's journal being item 2342 at the auction. that's just a carry over of the island's mythology with objects that have been in both. desmond's affection for penny exists in both so her flat number was like 423 or something number related.<p> the black and white imagery throughout the show represents both realities.<p> i don't know, whatch yall think.
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This will prob. piss a lot of people off, but "Good Omens" was one of the biggest disappointments ever. It felt like it was trying to be too hip. It may be a case of having too high expectations. One thing that endures: I still laugh when I think of the maxim that all audio cassettes, when left in a car long enough, become "Queen's Greatest Hits".
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Time for the executive's bored meeting anyway, but I think I'll get out of here before Mile's breakfast explodes.<P> Have at it node...or not.
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Not sure about your theory, but you've got a great user name and at least you're staying true to it - working on some real experimental shit.
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You begin on the island Alone, your girl companion of your past you find out in your journey was killed because of a choice you made. During your stint on the island your character changes to the point where you wouldn't sacrafice anyone. You then leave the island with a bearing of 135 degrees. As you are leaving the island you look up into the air and see the crashing Oceanic Flight 815 Above your head. You then wake up again, on the beach, right after the wreck happened. Only this time, your companion that was dead and haunting your whole previous time on the island is with you.. After seeing tonights episode, I am taking it as when he left the island his consiousness was transported back in time. He then made the choice to save his friend instead of let her die, and thus The whole events of the game never transpired, and he's back on the island, now Anchored in time by his constant.
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one side effect of the island is that everyone has something extrordinary and beneficial happen to them, which is why ben and locke protect this reality so fiercely.<p>
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You begin on the island Alone, your girl companion of your past you find out in your journey was killed because of a choice you made. During your stint on the island your character changes to the point where you wouldn't sacrafice anyone. You then leave the island with a bearing of 135 degrees. As you are leaving the island you look up into the air and see the crashing Oceanic Flight 815 Above your head. You then wake up again, on the beach, right after the wreck happened. Only this time, your companion that was dead and haunting your whole previous time on the island is with you.. After seeing tonights episode, I am taking it as when he left the island his consiousness was transported back in time. He then made the choice to save his friend instead of let her die, and thus The whole events of the game never transpired, and he's back on the island, now Anchored in time by his constant.
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That Mrs. Hawking says "we all die IF you get married?" I'm not buying that.
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once you come to the island, how you got there could be a complete fabrication of the island.
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nice reference. good to meet a fellow D-sciple
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I love Deselope as much as the next person on this board and think they moment at the end was probably the best emotional bit of Lost ever, just surpassing Charlie's death scene. But I think its mostly due to Henry Ian Cusack' acting and not much because of chemistry between the two. I've seen that Penny actor elsewhere and she's very uninteresting. Its only when Desmond in his fabulous accent and expressive eyebrows moons over "Penny" do we in turn moon over her, saying "Pehnny"! Still they are what makes Lost an emotionally gripping show. Them, Charlie and to some extent Sayid just cuz he exists.
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Did you read it because you are a Neil Gaiman fan or Terry Pratchet fan? They are pretty similar but I think you can pick up some parts where your like....'Pratchet totally wrote this section of the book' His nudge-in-the-ribs style of writing is a little more apparent than Gaiman's (altho Gaiman can just as 'cute' at times). I read that Initially Gaiman wrote most of 'the Them' stuff while Pratchett did a good deal of the angel/demon stuff but eventually they went back and forth and edited each other's sections. Side Note: the opening garden of eden chapter was originally a short story by Neil Gaiman.
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Damn good episode. The ending was brilliant. Makes me wonder if Locke and other characters are just time traveling back and forth instead of flashbacks.
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<p> Reading Sandman as it was coming out was quite a trippy experience. So was going to visit friends at MIT and coming away that every girl there wanted to be Death because they were all running around with ankh necklaces. I've actually stayed away from Pratchett because of the experience so I am otherwise unfamiliar with his work. I don't begrudge the experience of reading "Good Omens". It was simply the book equivilent of "Hey guys, did you know that SAM RAIMI and THE COEN BROTHERS made a film together? It's called CRIMEWAVE!!!! Let's go watch it!" <p> Hijinx ensue.
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read my above theory. wanna hear your thoughts.
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get back home via the "magic box" which is daniel farraday's completed time machine, which was stolen from him by ben linus. this is why they are in ben's pocket (or at least sayid is) ben let them off the island and to protect the other survivors if they work for him on the outside.
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did you notice when 1996 des seemingly felt like he'd made contact with future penny because he suddenly smiled and looked relieved in 96. well daniel farraday had this same phenomenon. he felt extremely saddened by the 815 wreck and didn't know why. somehow the emotions made it through.
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you're right about the yellow serum, or righter than i am, anyway. that makes way more sense.
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'wink' (ducks under cover again)
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Whoever above said that travelling in an 'open vessel' to the island would expose you to radiation-- good call. that would explain the necessity to use a submarine for Alpert et al., people who seem to hold all the cards.<P>So does 815 count as an open vessel, since it broke apart, or not?<P>Also.. i thought the Black Rock part of last night's ep was great.. but i am betting "The Log of the Black Rock" will be available for purchase around say june/july 2008. "Bad Twin", or for that matter "The Diary of Laura Palmer," all over again.
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crazy thought that when we saw Faraday crying in 'Confirmed Dead' he just came back from being pulled into the present by some time travel experiment he does on the island in an upcoming episode. maybe he had just found his constant and so he ended up forgetting about his trip and didnt know why he was crying... Maybe some kind of 'Butterfly Effect' where his memory lapses are really his trips through time?
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technically, he just went to med school and did a residency. He never practiced medicine as a profession or even specialized in srugery, much less neurosurgery.
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wish i put this much thought into my actual job
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well after a full day of doing nothing at work but posting on this TB, i need to bring something up that none of you seem to have realized: Bai Ling is hideous. Have you seen her mugshot photo? She looks like a tranny hooker (not one of those hot ladyboy ones, but she looks like Heroes' Ando in drag). Stranger in a Strange Land just lost the little cred it had.
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when you put it that way. God yes the overall story is just a far-fetched story of fiction. He's an educated man who has been successful at writing adventure stories for 30 years. Is he only used stuff to support his story of fiction? Sure? Skewed some stuff too. It's make-believe. I'm just talking in general terms about 2 points. Global warming as a threat to end the world as we know it is bunk science. The best climatologists in the world are UW-Madison (VERY liberal school I might add) and have shown it to be a pattern repeated many times in the past and will repeat many times in the future. The earth is resiliant. It will survive us. There's evudence out there I'm wrong too. And - the canibalism thing was a dumb plot device...but it has a basis in reality. Just not a likely one. I don't even know why I'm defending the book - it's not all that great. I am just a Crichton lacky. I love his stuff. Guilty pleasure.
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I bet he was the one who cut the wires.
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Are you sure? Did you read 5 Patients? (non-fiction) If you are right, I lost a little hero worship today.
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Guess you are right Alex. But still, one smart dude: <p> He attended Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts, as an undergraduate, graduating summa cum laude in 1964.[3] Crichton was also initiated into the Phi Beta Kappa Society. He went on to become the Henry Russell Shaw Traveling Fellow from 1964 to 1965 and Visiting Lecturer in Anthropology at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom in 1965. He graduated from Harvard Medical School, obtaining an M.D. in 1969, and did post-doctoral fellowship study at the Jonas Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, from 1969 to 1970. In 1988, he was Visiting Writer at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. While in medical school, he wrote novels under the pen names John Lange and Jeffery Hudson. A Case of Need, written under the latter pseudonym, won the 1969 Edgar Award for Best Novel.
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Demi Moore's blowjob in disclosure. How in the hell could I forget Demi in her prime giving head? Not to mention Rising Sun wasn't a bad adaption.
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Crichton > Gore
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Feb. 29, 2008, 4:17 p.m. CST
The Lost Gam ending is a rip off of the Dark Tower
by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World
Which was already a pretty lame ending.
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Sam really screwed up the timeline!
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Feb. 29, 2008, 4:33 p.m. CST
I don't get this confusion over the time difference
by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World
Nobody but us fans ever postulated the idea that the island and the "real world" were out of sync. Now it's obvious that that isn't the case, there's just a "bubble" of sorts around the island, and passing through it causes weird things to happen and more time passes than what it physically takes to cross the distance.
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just kidding but great ep, And Faraday continues to be the best new character on the show. I don't have much to add or theorize just having fun sitting back enjoying the ride. Team Jack!
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Amen Brother. Just remember, without Al, we wouldn't have the internet to talk to each other. ;)
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Great Scott!
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1000 posts within 24 hours of the Ep ending. That is damn impressive.
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yea i totally agree with you that crichton is a smart guy. i mean just graduating from harvard med school alone is an accomplishment...
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Oh, and isn't next week Juliet?
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Faraday SAYS that time passes differently on the island than it does in real life... So there's just a bubble of missing time around the island, but both the island and the outside world are fine? It doesn't make sense to me...
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Why did he want to talk to him? Why didn't Desmond remember talking to the old lady before? How does Minowski remember his time travel but Desmond doesn't?
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I bet it was Frank.
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I missed where she was brought up and he didn't remember her...
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in time and met an old Oracle type lady who told Desmond that he shouldn't marry Penny, or everyone will die.
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Anybody notice the bleeding orifices lifted directly from Primer (which handled time travel oh-so-much-more gracefully)? Don't get me wrong -- I immediately forgave them this horrific "find your constant" plot kludge when it payed off emotionally with the phone call to Penny. Not to mention forgiving them for Minkowski waking up so quickly from the shot, the scary boat dudes leaving the Losties alone EVEN AFTER they had fucked around in the sick bay, the lab rat's super-compressed timeline (clever little guy sure must have learned that maze FAST), etc., etc. I just hope they won't squander all of the ardor for (and investment in) the show with too many of these ham-handed devices, now that the answer train is rolling into town.
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Wasn't Frank inside the room whose door got left open? I assumed it was Ben's plant on the boat (unless said plant turns out to have been Minkowski) who left the door open.
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Oh yeah, I forgot: the boat dudes took Frank with them. Well, that being the case, I doubt it was Frank, because they're probably having a little talk with him about the importance of trust.
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Where ddi you guys get the idea that desmond didn't remember her?
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Jack and Kate's on-off relationship is shallow compared to the transcendence of Desmond and Penelope's.
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talking about Minowski?
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were cut on the boat, how could they be calling the island back and forth?
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looked extremely similar to the way the sky turned at the end of Season 2 when the button didn't get pressed. Also, the sound effect that accompanied the whole freaky sky thing when the button didn't get pressed, is the sound of two EM fields going out of phase. Obviously whatever the button did had to do with a huge Island wide EM field. What I wondered when watching that season finale was whether the Button machine was holding something in or keeping something out. There is a clue in the fact that when the Button machine stopped doing what it was doing, the sky turned a pinkish-orange hue. Which is referred to as red-shift in light, which means the wavelength was getting longer. Normally this indicates the object emiting the light is moving away from you, but since the distance between the sun and the earth was not changing, something in between, in the general vicinity of the Island, was causing the light to 'slow down' as it got close to the Island. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'world ending' threat of the Button not being pressed would have been the magnetic field of the earth collapsing due to having a 3rd pole added.
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Best season yet and easily the best show on network TV. Sticking by Lost is paying off in spades. This was one of the tensest episodes the show has had yet. The writers have set us up to expect bad things to happen to cast members so the series carries a weight for each episode that few dramas can match.
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Thanks, Nova. Yeah, I must've forgotten about the transmission. Like a normal person does. JBouganim, you can stick your CAPS up your ass, pal. Sorry I don't re-watch every episode of the show on a loop every week.
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Now post places to download this crack-like TV substance so those of us in the UK who DON'T have Sky can watch it too ;D
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Who knew that Harry was arrested... http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0229081mugs1.html
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I'm impressed that you strung all those ideas together in a coherent manner, mostly using actual stuff from the show.<BR> <BR> I think the biggest thing that doesn't hold water (in my asshole opinion) is that there are multiple realities, and that the flashback events didn't really happen. Darlton have stated that the flash-forwards and are a solid part of the over-all timeline (not just possible futures), so it would seem like a pretty big cop-out if the flash-backs (the shows whole gimmick for 3 seasons) were suddenly not a part of the timeline.<BR> <BR> Also, I think the 'magic box' is just a metaphor and I'm pretty sure Faraday didn't build any kind of machine that anyone stole. Ben gets back and forth from the island the same way Richard and Ethan and Juliet did, with the submarine (which is now all blowed up).<BR> <BR> I think overall, the theory is just taking too many assumptions about things that probably aren't true, like the alternate dimensions and the island as a diety.<BR> <BR> I do, however, think Charles Widmore and his hunt for the Black Rock are a big part of the story. And who the hell knows what's going on with Walt. Maybe HE'S the deity? (no, actually, he's not.)
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1) Those boat people are some paranoid motherfuckers. Do you really think they picked up Michael at sea, then let him roam around on the boat in such a way that he could gather information, report to Ben, and sabotage the radio room? I'm thinking Michael ain't the mole.<BR> <BR> 2) Fisher Stevens apparently reported to work recently to film some new stuff, so I'm thinking we haven't seen the last of Minkowski. (unless we just get to see an entire season of his corpse, like that poor bastard, Naomi.)
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They're all dead.. <p> But that thing about Daniel crying being linked to time travel is pretty mind shattering. Wicked.
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The actress who played Naomi got a pretty decent deal, besides the inconvenience of going all the way back to Hawaii to say about 5 lines then lay dead for the next 3 episodes. I'm going to bet that her corpse will be on the freighter and later in civilization. Damn, she's got a good gig going. Don't do shit and get paid for it!
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Nice job tracking that down. Yup - my alma mater. Don't be fooled by the voice and tone of the research presentations. I attended some of a similar series 3 years ago. Dissenting views are powerful and in great number.
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I know I'm about half a day late with this rebuttal, but the "Japanese Surrealism" was a dig at someone else. If I were going to brag about my literary credentials, I'd reference Tolstoy. or possibly Dr. Seuss.
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Your theory about Michael and Walt is the first sensible time travel theory I've read. Kudos to you, bud.<BR&