Cool News
New TNT "Babylon 5" timeslot selected '''
Glen here...
...with a brief follow-up to all the Babylon 5 re-scheduling hoopla that has been going
down lately.
This news comes from a first-time & untried source. But I have been in contact with this
individual, and he / she seems genuine, sincere, and forthcoming enough to be taken seriously.
As such, take the following with a pinch of salt - but assume there's a better-than-not chance the
following information is accurate.
In short, it appears TNT has now selected the timeslot into which Babylon 5 will be
moved. A two hour block on Saturday mornings..at 7a.m. and 8a.m (presumably Eastern time)...is
the alleged new home of Babylon 5.
Again ,there is a margin for error here, but that's where things appear to be settling at
the moment.
More to come...
Glen
Or call:
(512) 347-1992
Mail can be sent to:
Glen Oliver
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
P.O. BOX 160812
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
Austin, TX 78716-0812
USA
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Gee, if these guys wanted to insult us anymore by giving B5 that timeslot I could have them come over to my house and kick me in the nuts. TNT blows my dog. Saturday mornings? You know, just 'cause i watch B5 doesn't mean I don't go out on fridays and hook up. "Scuse me baby but I got a show to catch...."
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eastern? Damn....thats 11am for us west coast gurus...i guess I can live with that..... :OP
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Geez, I'm sure every single B5 fan will get up on Saturday Mornings to watch Babylon 5. I've seen every episode twice, and as good as they are, the fact is, I'm not going to keep watching it. There's still Crusade, and if TNT wants to run B5 into the ground, well I guess that's the way things are -CS
*Oh yeah, Ford I'm watching for out for you. Flame on, 'cause I'll be ready. -
is nothing if not extremely predictable. If it weren't for the fact that it's totally obvious that they're trying to kill B5, one would certainly get that impression from this latest move. Once B5 has moved to another network (hopefully along with Crusade), then I can stop watching TNT altogether and to be honest, I doubt I'll miss Joe Bob Briggs or anything else there.
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Why did they move it? They left Kung-Fu: The Legend Continues up, but moved B5 to the ass end of programming? Good god man!
Looks like my vcr'll be working overtime. -
7-8am?! As David Letterman would say, "that's when I'm just getting in!" I don't get it. TNT paid big bucks for this show, and now they're putting it in a crappy timeslot. What's the deal? -Dan
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I hope everyone appreciates this information. The fifth (upcoming) season of "Sliders" is its' final season... the producers have said that. Meaning, there WILL be a hole in the timeslot, for Crusade at least... long live Crusade!
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OK folks let's return to reality for a moment. IF the B5 reruns were getting the ratings they wouldn't move it now would they??
Clearly the ratings have gone down and they're moving new programming into the weekday slot that they hope will get better and broader ratings then reruns of B5.TNT isn't some evil empire, it's company run by men and women who have a job, get the best possible ratings for the TNT. Some of the programming staff really supported it, but it's time is now past and it's time to move on. CRUSADE will havei it's run and that's all folks. I know many of you feel I'm being harsh, but the truth can be harsh. -
Sci Fi is already showing uncut versions of B5 in the UK, if Claudia Christian's commercial spots are any indication.
(Check her Official site @ http://www.cchristian.com/ )
Taking it to the US wouldn't be that big a jump if they're doing well there. -
Wow...I saw this subject line, and before even looking at the article I knew it was from FordaT. You're getting predictable, Buford old chum--going on six years with the same hemipteran up your nether regions. Time to move on.
----j7y -
Over here in England, our first showing of SiL was at 11.30am, weekday, and had a big pink, yellow and white clock in the corner.
It was preceeded by an entertainment spot that featured someone drinking a milkshake of milk, worcester sauce and chilli powder (or something like that). -
Sliders last season? COnsidering Jerry O'Connell and his brother aren't coming back for it I dont' know what they'll do.. but then WHO CARES.
Crusade is as good as dead. By the time the shows start airing everyone will be released from their contract. Gary Cole has already shot a pilot for one of the major networks and I've heard the show got picked up. It's a shame it had to end this way but it did. -
Well, 7 a.m. on Saturday beats the heck out of regular 12:35 or 2 a.m. or 4 a.m. showings, or anything else we longtime fans had to endure during the series' original run.
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"I hope everyone appreciates this information. The fifth (upcoming) season of "Sliders" is its' final season... the producers have said that. Meaning, there WILL be a hole in the timeslot, for Crusade at least..."
I attended SciFi's Year 2000 programming presentation in New York yesterday and they presented a development slate of three shows they have lined up that don't have timeslots yet: "The Invisible Man" (described a humorous take on the Classic premise), "Metropolis"(a quirky series from Spike Jonze of music video fame), and "Stormfront" from 48 Hours/Die Hard writer Steven de Souza.
Don't make the mistake of thinking the Sci-Fi Channel is sitting on their hands unprepared for Sliders going off air.
Also, they will have a bias toward shows produced from their production company that they took part in developing. USAI has become a conglomerate and, if push comes to show, they will probably prefer to keep it all in-house.
Try to be realistic about Crusade's chances by finding out what is going on at Sci-Fi. -
IMHO, the current time slot sucked major wind. With the original time slot, I could get home from work just in time to watch it. When they moved it back an hour or two, it made it impossible for me to watch (and I don't have a VCR to record anything ... yes cable is more important than a VCR to me ;)). At least now, I have a shot at watching it. I don't think this is bad at all.
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Are you kidding Saturday mornings. That is really shitty for those of us on the east coast. Are we supposed to watch this show or not. At least TNT put the show back on. I mean hey they could cancel it before it ever aired (again) hey wait they did do that to some new show (Crusade). What kind of monkey do they have doing the scheduling at TNT anyway? -
Dark Hawke pondered...
"Why the move to 4 PM? Ratings?
Possibly, but they were bound to slip for two reasons: (1) fewer people are home at 6 PM than at 7, and (2) those that are home are thinking more about getting dinner than what's on TV."
Yes, the reason for the move to 4PM was the ratings were starting to slip. More importantly, Due South was showing strength at 4PM and someone thought to give it a chance at 6PM to see if it could do better than B5. That someone was right. It did do better. And it did better at a broader range of demos. It's the law of the jungle. The stronger show wins out.
B5's strength AND weakness from a ratings perspective was that it is a "one demo wonder". It does well for the Men 25-54 demo, but is weak for everyone else. It doesn't do as well for women as Due South does. It doesn't do as well for older people as Due South does.
The additional problem is that, with time, B5 didn't show "legs". It would lose people who felt they had seen it enough(like myself), but not be able to replace them with the same number of new people.
TV programs vary in their ability to replace lost viewers. Broader demographic appeal helps, but eventually all shows fade. The only way for TNT to maintain its ratings over time is to:
1.) Replace fading shows with "fresh" shows.
2.) Find shows that don't fade or fade very, very slowly -
It has very little to do with ratings as the posting above seems to think.
B5 would always pick up new viewers, the problem lies with TNT.
They are pissed at Joe and this is just another way to get to him, just look at the TNT suggestions for a new timeslot.
8am in the morning????? for christ sakes! I urge TNT to sell the rights to someone eles and stick to crap programming. The reality is that B5 deserves better! -
Lo and behold, I sleep in late and when I log on what do I find but Fordat1 whining about us B5 fanboys and how we all need to come back to earth about B5. Well, gee, the only one who needs to come back to earth is Senor Ford. Let's let the talkbackers decide, who needs the reality check, a person who fights passionately when a show undeservedly gets a bad break? Or the one who spends six years of his life cynically attacking anyone who professes an interest in said show? Hmmmmmm....... -CS
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Yeah, right.... Look, Ford, just because JMS and you didn't get along is no excuse for taking TNT's side in this. JMS verbally nailed you to the wall because you were engaging in online personal attacks against him and his work without just cause or reason. So, kindly spare us this "fanboy" crap and just state plainly that you despise JMS and B5 because you have a personal reason to, instead of coming up with this "the truth hurts" garbage. You've always been a good spin doctor, but I can't see letting you get away with something as lame as that "fanboy" post.
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Fanboys please pay attention,
So far you just want to ignore what's I've told you.
If B5 reruns were getting good numbers and hitting the demos that TNT needed it would stay exactly where it is. The only reason a programmer would replace it with another program is to IMPROVE THE RATINGS and Hit the Demos.The shows that are replacing B5 with tend to have a broader and more mainstream appeal. As for TNT, as I've said before it's not run by Evil men and women who want to destroy JMS and his little creation, there are some very strong supporters of his programs who work at TNT, but at the end of the day, it just wasn't working for whatever reasons. B5 is now in rerun heaven. TNT I'm told has it for at least two more years, then perhaps the next stop is the Sci-Fi channel.So far The Fanboys don't like it that I point out that it's over and it comes down to ratings (Or lack of). It's not called SHOW BUSINESS FOR NOTHING.
And no matter how much you bitch at me, it doesn't change that fact. As far as CRUSADE is concerned, JMS has made his bed on that one, now he has to lay in it.
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"It has very little to do with ratings as the posting above seems to think. B5 would always pick up new viewers, the problem lies with TNT."
I tracked the ratings diligently on a week by week basis and I was able to predict when B5 was going to get moved even before TNT announced it. In every timeslot it had, it would start high(and the first run on TNT was an out-and-out success) and then slowly fade. There would always be a noticable drop when Season 1 started again.
I told friends in March that B5 would be moved soon because it was doing fine at 4PM from January until March and then a noticable 33% drop could be seen (from a .6 to a .4). It coincided with the start of Season One again.
I know its hard to believe for hard core fans that B5 can't replace lost viewers with new ones at the same pace, but it is true. It's not that they don't ever get new viewers. They have to get the same number they are losing. It's a difficult task for a show that was designed by its creator to appeal to a limited demographic.
People do get tired of watching the same show over and over again. I did. I've got limited leisure time. If I'm going to waste it watching TV it's going to be something I haven't seen before.
On the other hand, I agree that TNT should drop its rights to the show. If a 0.4 rating isn't good enough for them, I'm sure some dinky cable network is dying for a rating that high. Just hope your local cable system carries it. Don't expect the Sci-Fi channel to pick it up though and put it at 5:00, 6:00 and 7:00. I believe their new schedule for those timeslots includes Outer Limits, Hercules, and the newly acquired Sentinel. Hercules used to beat B5 when they were head-to-head competition when they were both at 6PM. Sentinel and Outer Limits are new, so they'd give them first shot to sink or swim. -
The reality of TV is no show has ever gotten screwed over as much as B5 has. Maybe its not pulling the ratings it once was, but that's no excuse for the treatment its gotten by TNT. Ted Turner likes having a iron grasp on his network's projects, but that's no excuse. And ford, the reason why we hate your flames so much, is were sick and tired of having not only to fight to keep our show on the air, but also have to deal with cynics like you with personal vendettas aginst JMS.
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Wow !! I'm new here, and I can see that I walked right into the middle of a cross fire !! But here are my thoughts
I'm a fan of B5 as well as ST, and I can truely say that B5 did not achieve as well as DS9 ( in terms of rating ) is because of its lack of publicity .... with such a large fan base already in place from the original ST & STNG, and fierce support from Paramount, it is nearly impossible to fail. Just think of how long and hard B5 fought to run it's entire series, DS9 would never have to deal with that. It was a matter of credibility. But now that JMS had established himself as a top notch Sci-Fi writer, I don't understand why TNT should interfere with his work. Surely no one questioned the quality of Voyager when it was first announce. But hey !! that's just my opinion .... -
As an avid fan of the show, I do hate what TNT is doing the B5. But, B5's time-move is far from horrible treatment. How many shows get rerun 3 or 4 times through? Having these runs several times have allowed those of us with VCRs to have the entire series on tape, and we can watch it any time at all. While I would love for B5 to always have a prime-time showing, that is not realistic. However, Crusade's treatment from TNT is another story...
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>
You don't see this level of information published because Nielsen is in the business to SELL it. They sell it to networks like TNT and they sell it to advertising agencies so that they can monitor what their schedules are delivering.
Those buyers are forbidden by contract from publishing it to anyone but clients.
The best way to have access to it is to get a research job at an advertising agency. There are jobs where you do nothing BUT look at ratings all day.
You may not have access to those ratings, but 100's of people monitor them just like TNT does. TNT couldn't move a high-rated show without those 100's speaking up about it because those people are responsible for advertising schedules being run on TNT.
I find it amazing that people would think that TNT would make scheduling decisions based on "political" or "personal" reasons. Every rating point or even tenth of a rating point is worth money to them. When a rating goes down, it's the ad agencies that complain first by demanding "makegoods" for lost viewers. Having to give makegoods(free ads) is an annoyance and a loss of income.
I wouldn't be surprised if the demand to move B5 came from their advertising sales department--a department who probably doesn't even know who J. Michael Straczynski is. And, believe me, knowing several in that department(it's in NY not Atlanta or LA), *I* know more about Crusade than they do. -
The Nielsen rating system is clearly an outmoded system of rating TV shows. Its expressed purpose is to determine how much networks can charge for advertising. TV is a business, and if the raw numbers don't add up, the show gets canned, unfortunately only a small percentage of the country's houses have nielsen boxes, and if those people don't like B5, its going to get moved. Unfortunately, Crusade already seems doomed, and even if every B5 fan gets two of his friends to watch it too, it means bull**** if they don't have nielsen boxes, but I'm not bitter-CS
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Does this bump Bruce Campbell off TNT completely? Brisco was an underrated show. I guess watching reruns of Archie Bunker will force me to have shorter lunches
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I would like to say that it is very true the situation does seem to be personal. Forget the ratings for a moment, please,and consider this: B5 has already been bought and paid for. Killing the show at this point of the current run, without any solid plans of finishing up, is snotty and mean but that's not as mean as the TNT website. Read Our Minds contest? TV execs don't usually carry them and thus rely on the sheer "voodoo" of ratings points and shares. But to make us feel like the fans really have a voice in making up their minds about the time-slot is a sick joke. TNT put that gem "LA Heat" in the 4PM slot to try and rescue IT! No reason they couldn't plop the show into ANY other slot and finish this current run. I finally had everything in place, taping the series and seeing some episodes for the first time, when this break gets imposed. The universe must be conspiring against me. Yeah, I can watch every episode every time and never get tired of it. Good quality work like this seldom gets to see daylight and TNT shows us they really don't care. They will do what they do any way they want to. I e-mailed TNT and offered to send in money to keep the show on but still haven't heard back. Whatever they do I have no doubt it will suck.
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"Forget the ratings for a moment, please,and consider this: B5 has already been bought and paid for."
As opposed to their other shows which aren't?
They have bought and paid for every show on their schedule. Some of them even cost more than B5.
Try again. -
No real suprise there. It seems the trailer and other clips were a good indication of how this film would turn out. Described as a "CGI cartoon Nightmare" with no plot and wobbly dialogue, the mighty fall of this "event" could have a damaging effect on sci-fi in general and the future of Crusade.
Plot is everything -
Stop for a second. Has anyone noticed just how much of a battlefield the B5/Crusade talkbacks have become? I thought we were here to discuss and dissect a tv show, not to make personal attacks and stir up unpleasantness amoung one another.
Enough already. -
What's with the whining?
Are you people honestly asking me to believe that you didn't expect this to happen?
Are you that dense?
Yet, despite all the obvious animosity the inbreed red-necks working for Ted Turner have for sci-fi and any/all shows with even the vaguest sense of intelligence to them, you all continue to behave as if surprised.
The only thing I find more annoying is the fact that none of you do anything!
Let me give you all a nickels worth of free advice - watch "Crusade", record the first 13 episodes on a high quality tape on SP, call your cable/satellite provider and then have TNT removed from your television.
After you've done that, send a letter to TNT and send a letter to your cable/satellite provider and explain why you did it.
If you really want to hit TNT where it hurts, cancel your cable subscription (as TNT gets money from cable, no matter how many people block out their station), get a satellite dish and then call your cable provider and tell them you BOUGHT a satellite dish, to ensure NONE of your money went to TNT.
That will have some effect ladies and gentleman.
Thad. -
As I understand it, TNT has been bouncing B5 from timeslot to timeslot like a badminton shuttlecock, am I right? Sounds awfully familiar... Over here in Canada, the same fate befell B5 way back during Season 1 & 2. Hmm let's see... Saturday at 5:00... nonono, Saturday @ 7:00... nah, howbout some weekday @ 10:00 pm? And so on and so on... Meanwhile I kept missing slices of the story, so when I find it again, I ask "what the HECK happened???" as the story's completely changed. Remembering how frustrated I was, I don't envy newcomers to the B5 universe. Well, among Canadian B5 fans, the station responsible for all the bouncing around, the BBS, will forever be known to us, as the B.S. (Take a really wild guess what the initals mean:)
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What I meant was, B5 is finished and has no more production costs to be concerned about. At this point it's just a matter of airing it or not. Couple that with Crusade getting dumped (I'm certain of it) and TNT can be rid of the whole buisiness in two years. The money roll in but it don't roll out.
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Given your access to this ratings data, could you tell us how B5 was
performing compared to the shows that heretofore "sandwiched" it on the TNT daytime schedule,"Kung Fu: The Legend Continues" and "L.A. Heat".>>
To be honest, I only payed attention to the schedule between 4 and 8. Kung Fu hasn't been on in that range since before last September. When it was on, it did better on female demographics than male. And it does better for older people (probably because of David Carradine's age). That makes it ideal for a daytime timeslot. In August, 1998, B5 and Kung Fu had identical ratings for Women 25-54, despite B5 being on in the later timeslot.
As far as LA Heat, it was a new untried show (seen overseas, but not in the U.S.) and has only been on for a few months. I don't see any sign of it catching on, but it was doing better than B5 against the women.
If you want to blame any demo for B5's ratings problems, blame the chicks. If it had as high women ratings as it had male ratings, it would probably still be on at 6PM. -
Isn't moving B5 to a crappy timeslot, but it is what they have done to Crusade. And I can agree, that it isn't that surprizing that B5 has been moved, after all, we have seen the entire series. THat isn't to say it isn't worth watching, but I really wanted the New Crusade! DAMN TNT!
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People like to brand stuff. THey have branded Science Fiction Literature, across the board, as either the geeks literature, the paranoid delusionlunatic literture, thanks to X-files, or the big explosions literture, with no meaningful points. To the experts, any good science fiction is the exception, not the norm, which I know is a load of crap
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After all the crap we have endured with time slot shifting, now we get Saturday mornings? Did that many people vote on TNT's site for that timeslot? I find that hard to imagine. The main thing that concerns me is the fact that it will now take basically a year for the series to reach completion. That is two shows a week for 52 weeks (assuming that it lasts that long on TNT). A total of 104 episodes a year, out of 110 total episodes. I am currently awaiting season 1 and part of season 2. I have everything else on tape ( a bad copy i might add -- a friend's from the original run ) I get more and more dissapointed with TNT. It's number one show is WCW wrestling, and that gets killed by it's rival WWF every Monday anyway. And then there is Crusade... TNT didn't even give it a chance. Have the executives ever watched B5? I doubt it. It's all ratings. And as countless other people have mentioned, the rating system is outdated. I can go on and on with this response, but i think you get what i am hinting at. Love the idea of getting a dish and screwing TNT. Might actually take that into consideration at some point. God, doesn't life suck sometimes. And there is nothing we can do to control this situation anyway. I am still annoyed at that online poll on the TNT B5 website. Will the madness ever end? I guess not.
--thanks for your time -
Just had to get my $.25 in (because of course my opinion is worth far more than two lousy cents...).
First off, the time shifting. From what I can tell, in the UK there were mad time shifts all over the place. Gads, when I first started watching Bab5, we had to go time-shifting and channel-shifting to find the thing. It's on UPN! No wait...that channel's WB now! So where's Bab5? TNT? Ok...9:00 Friday nights. No, wait...10:00 Wednesday nights. Hold on, 8:00 Wednesday nights. And they're re-running the series? What time? What channel? Huh?
The fact that Babylon 5 has sustained a loyal viewership even while being shuttled from time slot to time slot and station to station says a LOT about the quality of the show.
Second, the ratings/demographics. As a housewife (and no, I don't have a porn site), I can tell you what producers gear toward women: entertainment shows (E!, for example), decorating shows (Martha Stewart is the antichrist, by the way), food shows, and the like. I think it's assumed that women don't have the brains God gave a lima bean, because it's certain none of the shows directed at them make them think. I don't know what families are getting the Neilsen boxes nowadays, but I have to wonder if any of the women in those households made it past 8th grade. I mean, look at your advertisers; you can see the demographic they're shooting for in a heartbeat! CNN Headline News: stock brokers; mutual funds; tech companies. Discovery: Chevrolet; tech companies; gender-neutral clothing. TNT: Ford; snack foods; beer. E!: diapers; laundry detergent; minivans. It makes me ill, honestly.
Now, regarding Crusade, JMS refuses to come straight out and say anything harsh about the management of TNT, because he understands that whole "biting the hand that feeds you" concept, but from what I have read this is what I have gleaned:
Apparently (APPARENTLY!), JMS was putting together another intelligent, well-thought out show about a lot of diverse personalities and complex situations. Also apparently, TNT wanted more fights and sex...sort of a Baywatch + WWF + Star Trek kind of thing. JMS disagreed...vociferously. So...he made 13 episodes of what he wanted, and that's all TNT would pay for. Rumor has it (RUMOR!!) that Sci-fi didn't have the money to pick it up right now, but that JMS is trying to keep the door open for a season or two hence.
Ok, opinion now (like I haven't spewed enough of that). If Sci-fi would concentrate on SCIENCE FICTION (what's this about them picking up Hercules, fer chissakes?), they would have ample time in their schedule for both the entire Babylon 5 rerun AND a first- (or second-) run showing of Crusade. Also, Sci-fi advertisers are starting to clue in that there is a bigger market for science fiction out there than their neat little demographic people tell them, so they're getting a little bit more money to work with nowadays. With shows coming on board helmed by the likes of Francis Ford Coppola and Henson Productions, they're also getting a little bit more of that name recognition that sponsors love so much. I think if we, as fans, collectively wait it out for a while, there will be improvement.
Then again what do I know...I'm only a girl. -
Heard the other night on NBC news that the NBC Sports dept was bemoaning the fact that ever since Michael Jordan left the NBA, ratings for games in general and playoffs in particular have been drawing only one-fourth to one-third the expected ratings. The NBA is leaking money like a sieve. Good choice, TNT!!!
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After numerous attempts to get ANY response from TNT, we can only conclude that our input was never going to be a factor in the "decision". Do your part and turn this crap station OFF! You can't drop it but you don't have to watch it either. I watched cement dry and it had more draw than LA Heat! Forget it Ted. And that goes for your paid lackies too.
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You people are so self-involved and short sighted that it makes me wonder about who stereotyped geeks as smart. I work in advertising, let me explain what TNT is doing. TNT is always in the top 3 of all cable networks, as such, they program to a wide, and large audience, spanning all demographics. While a .4 rating would cause celebrations at the Sci-Fi channel, its unacceptable for a network the size of TNT. Worse, that .4 is made up of an audience that is predominantly young and male. True, advertisers covet that demographic, but TNT is not in business to cater to them. Sci-Fi, Comedy Central, MTV and ESPN are far more effective at reaching those men. Before you get riled up about WCW, more people watch Nitro in one night than watch B5 in a couple of weeks. That is too powerful to ignore. Now, think of TNT's programming. All day they are running programming appealing to older, gender mixed audiences, maybe even leaning towards women. They build towards primetime with their afternoon programming. B5 is simply not a good lead in for Due South and ER. It creates a huge hole in the middle of the day which it is hard to recover from. So, before you question TNT's programmers, think about the fact that B5 fans are a very small portion of a very large audience. If that weren't the case maybe Sci-Fi would have some real ratings. Is Saturday morning the best place for B5 on TNT? Probably. Oh, I assure you, if you turn Crusade into a huge hit, beating a typical movie shown in Primetime, you will see it remain on the schedule. This is TV, its about eyeballs, not quality and not the taste of a few people who would rather watch science fiction than other programming. Thats your right, you may not like what TNT shows, but, millions of people do.
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