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Lawsuits everywhere... Is THE HOBBIT in jeopardy? What about WATCHMEN?
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Is THE HOBBIT the new Don Quixote? Is it a cursed project? Bob Shaye finally works out his deal with Peter Jackson and then he's hit with another lawsuit, this time it's an even bigger one... from the Tolkien estate... technically it's the Tolkien Trust, a British charity that manages the estate.
Why did New Line find it so hard to live up to their contracts regarding RINGS? It seems they owe the Tolkien Estate 7.5 percent of the gross from the movies and didn't pay anything.
Ordinarily we wouldn't cover stuff like this, but instead of New Line just being hit financially the lawsuit that has been filed is also trying to terminate any further development of other Tolkien properties, including THE HOBBIT. Probably especially THE HOBBIT.
Now that doesn't mean THE HOBBIT is dead or even stumbling. It's quite possible this will be settled out of court or even if New Line is found completely guilty, it's possible the judge won't grant that part of the suit. And if they do, what does that mean for MGM? Would they be sole owners of the property then or will the Tolkien estate get full rights to JRR's works again? Lotsa questions... It's not good, but nothing's fucked yet.
The other big suit that hit today was filed by 20th Century Fox against Warner Bros, claiming they and they alone have the rights to make a film based on WATCHMEN. Umm... wouldn't it have been a good idea to let WB know this before they shot the damn movie?
It's a long, complicated claim (read the details here!), but I can't help but wonder how this went so far without Fox realizing it. I don't know what exactly they want, but it reads like they're trying to stop any further movement of the movie. Scope this:
"...restrain (Warner Bros. Pictures) from taking actions that violate Fox's copyrights and which stand to forever impair Fox's rights to control the distribution and development of this unique work."
I hope something can be worked out because I'm really psyched to see Zack Snyder's version of this universe, especially after seeing how awesome the publicity stills have been so far. Thoughts?
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Wait, I don't think that did it. As Booster Gold and/or Blue Beetle would say, BWAH-HA-HA!
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hope this doesn't derail the hobbit movie(s). fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck. new line is fucked.
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..so now they want a piece? fuck them.
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I'm gonna sue them for making me sit through Jason VS Freddy.
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At this point, after so many serious allegations that they have been cooking the books, the best thing they could probably do would be to ask for an independent audit of LOTR. Even if they *did* cheat/shortchange one or more parties, coming clean with a full audit done in good faith and an eventual payout would probably mean they'd just have to provide fair compensation rather than compound the damage with years worth of legal fees and possible punitive damages.
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Enough of adaptations, sequels and remakes. Try some original stories, for a change.
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this is how they roll guys (but i bet you knew that already)and surprise!!!! watchmen starts to generate buzz, and fox comes a calling for its piece....just kill it off already...zach, you will go down in history as the movie's brian wilson...creator of a classic that will never see the light of day...they will make bootlegs from clips posted on youtube....they will write sonnets in your honor....and then you can burn out on one huge lsd trip...no movie is worth this shite
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how much is the fox buyout? and there was never anyway that fox would make that pos hamm script into a movie...
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Newline has it coming. They gave it to so many others up the ass, now it's their turn to bend over and take it. As far as the Watchmen: Warners and Fox will settle outside of court and it'll go forward, no big deal. Fox sat on their hands and waited on purpose. If they called it early they would have only collected their expect buy out. Now they'll get somthing a little more. They're not looking to kill the flick, if they do that they don't get any $. If they negotiate, they'll make a little bank on someone else's effort. Free money, what's better than that?
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All that money went to the shitty Aliens VS Predator movies.
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Oh wait, they did that in the 70s. I like The Hobbit, but don't love it, and don't care if it gets made. And I especially don't care if two movies don't get made. Fellowship of the Ring was hella awesome and all, but once Boromir dies it's all downhill...
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he probably heard about the pending lawsuit, which will shelve the hobbit project for years...hmmm, will i still want to see it when im 70?
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As much as I think Watchmen SHOULD NOT be made into a movie,Zack and Warner Brothers will DEFANTLY make a far superior picture then FOX ever could.Fox's movies are mostly crap,they Ruined X-MEN,Fantastic Four,Daredevil,LXG and whatever comic pictures they put out,im sure WATCHMEN would be just as bad as LXG.
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I agree that this is almost certainly a minor issue regarding WATCHMEN. The buyout price is probably fairly low, and once that is paid off, this lawsuit seems like it will be over. Fox sprang this lawsuit now because it's far enough into the process that Warners MUST pay to release the film and recover on its large investment, but not too late in the process that it will delay the overall release. The timing, in other words, is perfect for Fox's purpose of collecting the outstanding buyout fee without causing any significant complications. I'm not worried about this.
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if fox wants to big a cut, warner's may want to recoup the loss by releasing the film as a pg-13...which allows it wider coverage...and makes for a pos movie...they may even force zach into reshooting with the hamm script so even the little kiddys will love it
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Back the shit up, and let Zack Snyder's Watchmen grace the big screen.
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The goddamn PLANE has CRASHED into the mountain!
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Given Fox's status as the neocon mouth piece, it's no surprise they'd badger the 'Watchmen' production. Anyone who's read the comic can probably imagine how the film will be designed to reflect the current political climate.
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... bacci40, I will go ahead and state on the record that the idea that you think there's even the slightest possibility that they will "force Zach into reshooting with the hamm script" amazes me. You are kidding, correct? You don't actuall believe that there's any possibility of that, however remote, do you? Because that will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever happen. Ever. Under any circumstances.
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Ultimately, I'd rather see him do something other than The Hobbit anyway. I think he'd actually be a better fit for Conan, as long as he didn't put Ron Perlman in the lead. As far as Watchmen goes, I'd have more sympathy for Fox if they'd made a move on this in a more timely fashion. Sly Fox.
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Feb 12, 2008 2:48:52 AM CST
New Line loves the flow, won't part with their precious dough
by orionsangels
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And it aint gonna be pretty. My sense of this is, they had never grossed so much money and the greedy gold bug fever took over. The rationalized this by giving the actors and crews slightly higher rates, but wanted to save as much filthy lucre as they thought they could swindle people out of.
As to Watchmen, WB's should just negotiate a deal with FOX so they get to wave their banner over this film and earn some money.
Easiest money Rothman ever earned. -
Apparently New Line shredded them all.
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...seems pretty hell bent on keeping his works from being adapted, so I can actually see them pursuing this to the bitter end. While I'm a bit saddened that we may never see a Del Toro (or Jackson) Hobbit film, we may not have seen it anyway, and I feel it's better to have no Hobbit than a crappy Hobbit. As for Fox, comic book properties need to be kept far, FAR away from Fox forever and always. I see Fox failing in their endeavor to grab a piece of this, especially since AOL/Time-Warner is the parent company of DC Comics and very likely have first dibs on any of their properties now. Fuck Fox up it's stupid ass.
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everyone stands to make too much money to let a lawsuit hold this thing up.
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Spare us all this cash-in/money grab based on a mediocre book, as well as it's even more obvious greed project - the "bridge" material with which they're making ANOTHER movie.
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But on this I must add my 2cents...
Fuck Fox in its stupid ass! -
Feb 12, 2008 3:05:40 AM CST
Uh, Tolkien Estate is never NOT going to own the rights
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
A movie studio can't just come along and buy rights to anything but making a fucking movie.
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no, i dont think warners would force zach to use that pos hamm script...but if fox is holding out for mucho lucre, isnt it logical that warners would want to make as much on the gross as possible? and the only way to do that is by cutting the film to a pg-13
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that is a perfect fox movie...when you read the script, you realize how ff and x3 got made
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He was in contention until he signed on for Hobbit (I think he signed on already)
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Fox used to make films like Star Wars, Alien, Die Hard, The Abyss, Predator, Fight Club. Look at it's current slate of films. Fuck you Murdoch.
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can't believe they are going down. and what will happen to F13 and NOES?
damned!!! -
Fuck them both in their greedy asses until they bleed to death! Fucking suits! (and by that I mean studio execs) Stop fucking with the artists and let them be creative and pay them what they're worth, you cum-guzzling swine! Well, at least New Line will be folded into WB, and we won't have to put up with their shenanigans anymore. Scumbags!
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If there is an afterlife I hope I get the chance to repeatedly smash the tax dodging Murdoch's and Margaret Thatcher's heads together till they a bloody pulp, then have them go back to normal so I can do it all again. Between them those two CUNTS ruined the social fabric of the UK and were only now reaping the rewards. Thatcher/Murdock managed to do what Hitler couldn't and fucked Great Britain without a single shot being fired!!! Forget going back in time and killing Hitler, I need me a souped up DeLorian so I can go back and drive a tent peg through their skulls at birth!!! Bit off topic but I feel a lot better now!
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He's been fucking people over for years, and he tried it on with something far too big this time. He is over.
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But yet we cover every time someone got a cup of coffee on the set of Cloverfield or any JJ Abrams project. No, it's nothing big. Just the possible delay of a prequel to one of the biggest franchises in movie history. No biggie. In other news, JJ scratched his ass today...
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FUCK THAT INBRED PIECE OF SHIT!!!
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NOTHING'S HAPPENING! AND NOTHING PROBABLY WILL! OMG!
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...Jackson's LoTR turned on many, many people to read the books thereby fattening the Tolkien estate's bank accounts. I'm sure NOONE involved cashed any of those checks. On the other hand, New Line screwing them would put a huge bad taste in their mouths making it difficult to trust anyone from "Hollywood." Freakin' money grubbers...
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If you're going to do a roll of shame for people that fucked the UK- move back to the 70's. It was the assraping that took place then by the left that caused the massive swing to the right in Thatcher, and then the rise of the media barons, flogging bloody everything the country owned (epitomised by that fat scottish turd fire-saling the gold reserves), and the current parasitic group of fuckers that are in power. We need a revolution
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aren't they notoriously difficult when it comes to the rights to LOTR etc? If New Line did try to fuck them, then that was silly. Fox, on the other hand are despicable bastards- it seems like what they want is WB to just pay them to fuck off, so they can cash the cheque and giggle at the creative efforts of others. Wankers.
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The first AvP film made somewhere in the region of $180m. The cash didn't go in to that. Depressing isn't it?
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Again we see the incompetence of Warner Bros executives. Plain nasty. If they hold up Watchmen WB could get a lot of problems off of fans. Like i have said previously WB need to get rid of a lot of dead wood in Hollyweird. WB give me a job at Warner Bros to sort out you executives.
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you're overestimating the number of Watchmen fans. It isn't like you are talking about Star Wars. There is less of them and they are less rabid.
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What's with the Zack-love 'round here? I, for one, is ridiculously worried about watchmen. Let's face it, "300" was a 45 minute movie stretched out to last twice that through slow-mo. Yeah, it LOOKED good, but the movie blew.
So don't go all gaga over some fine-looking publicity stills. -
IF they try to ground The Hobbit even a extra second after those fucktards in New Line pay their money for the LOTR trilogy. What about this, let DelToro shoot the damn movie, take a share in the profits, then give all of it to charity, what about that, Tolkien Squad?
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Its always good to make this clear.
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Not happy with spewing your bullshit
on your brainwashing channel,and an owner that`s ass raping the planet,you want to steal some more!
Murdoch and Fox are nothing more than a pustulant boil on the crusty anus of a dying Hollywood. -
he'd done live action now
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Seriously, people. Read a book.
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The Tolkien estate already tried to settle out of court but failed hence the suit, one of the reasons it failed to receive the money was because of New Line once again failing to open the books on the last 2 films ala Jackson's suit. Seeing as the future production of any Tolkien material is tied to the suit, which will most probably drag out as long as the Jackson fued, I can't see any Hobbit film seeing the light of day for a while.
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see, ordinarily I'd agree with you but what they'll do is go back to the well and remake something else with brand recognition. Risk=bad.
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This should make him explode in his pants with excitement.
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Shaye deserves every lawsuit he gets. And Fox were geniuses in how they handled this. It's Warner's lawyers faults for not making sure that Warners had full/exclusive rights.
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Seriously, I need to know.
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What the fuck is wrong with New Line? Or better yet, who in the hell is running the studio? Do they not understand the concept of actually paying people? I don't understand. Either way, New Line is running aground...they're falling apart. TimeWarner is thinking about it just folding it into Warner Bros. because they've been doing horrible since LOTR. The Golden Compass did amazing over seas, but here in the US it was rather a disappointment. Other than that, they've just been having flop after flop.
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and what happens? The fans get fucked. Thanks alot New Line(sarcasm)... PAY YOUR DEBTS A-HOLES!
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Maybe Fox can shut down The Watchmen. They'll have to send in some special unit to go in and tack down Zack Snyder like in Apocalypse Now.
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dumps millions and millions into a project, goes through filming, sacrifices other possible projects, then pulls the rug out from under them at the last minute. "Yeah, it's a real shame how you wasted all that time and money on a movie that we'll never let you release." Pretty brutal, but a big blow if they're out to smash the knees of their competition.
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didn't pay up to the Tolkien estates. Very stupid too.Hey Fox, why not wait until Watchmen is on DVD before going after them? You've got plenty of time. Let's hope fox doesn't shut down this post the dirty...
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Nobody wanted to see the shitfest that Watchmen was becoming with its joke cast and shoddy director. And The Hobbit needs to be left WELL alone. They somehow pulled off LOTR but magic don't strike twice people! I'm so fucking happy right now!
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I'm sure this will be resolved seeing as Jackson's case was. Considering how much money New Line will make with a Hobbit movie (or two) they would be foolish to throw that away by not paying the Tolkien Trust what they are owed. They have a while to settle the suit though because The Hobbit wouldn't be shooting for a long time anyway (they are aiming for Christmas 2010 release).
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They can kiss my ass when it comes to films. I will refuse to see their movies in the theater. I may be one person, but if enough people follow suit, they'll feel the hit.
They must have some motive to wait this long! -
Sue everybody.
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one some asshole talkbacker (for further information see Spoiler-man) gloats over a studio stopping a project that would entertain a lot of people, generate money to movie makers. Miserable fuck. Just reread watchmen, and it would make a great movie, even if they update Nite Owl's ship. If movie NOT being made makes you happy, you should join a world religion. You're halfway there with property worship.
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...who said "shame on you Peter Jackson" for having the temerity to ask for what was contractually his? It seems New Line is making a ghoulish practice of welching on deals. It's extra pathetic when one considers that it's not that they're doing it to save themselves from bankruptcy, but rather out of sheer greed.
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They just re-ran that Simpsons episode on Sunday. "Maus is in the house!"
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enough with that LOTR fantasy crap.
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yes I agree that New Line needs to pay up if they signed a contract with the Tolkien estate, however, it's not like the Tolkiens don't have a ton of money. If it were my property I'd be happy that someone made just a beautiful rendition of my work that lots of people loved. But I could expect as much. Hell when someone dies in my family even though we aren't wealthy people, most of my relatives find reason to fight over a stupid old rug.
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Kill all the lawyers?
I don't know.
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Well, would you be here on AICN if you were in the throes of multiple orgasms?
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...but simply about not following a contract. Yes, the Tolkien estate has tons of cash, but it's not like New Line is selling steet corner blowjobs for crack dollars.
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I agree with you man. I know my post might suggest otherwise, and New Line can suck a dick if they don't live up to their contracts, I'm just saying that it's horrible if the possibilty is there that we might not get the Hobbit because of this. But then again that is New Line's fault
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burn in hell Shaye you greedy dwork!
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DC published Watchmen, Warner bros own DC.... how the hell did fox end up with the rights?
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So the WB owned the Watchmen (via ownership of DC), licensed it to Fox forever... and then forgot? I don't buy it... this is bullshit.
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I can see it now:The horrible little homonculous is just stretching on his favourite elf costums (It's getting a bit tight now, best cut back on the donuts), cracking his knuckles and logging on. "No hobbbit, yes, I'm so excited, yes, I prayed to the gods of middle earth, yes, fuck new line, SPLOOOOOOEEUUUUUUURGH"
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All they do is piss on their Comic book properties. It'll be a cold day in HELL before I see another Fox comic book movie while Rothman is in charge over there.Rothman = complete douchebag
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The more this is delayed the more Jackson is likely to do it. Now Watchmen. Too bad, legally Warner will win.
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Who watches the watchmen? BLADE! That's who!
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If you people actually knew the history of Watchmen, you'd realize Joel Silver had the rights at FOX during the production of Predator with Gordon. Gordon kept pimping the rights with the Hamm script and always knew that whoever funded the film would be left carrying the bag. And if FOX filed in pre-production, you wouldn't have a damn film shot.
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Ohhhh corporate America. Why must you be so wildly insane?
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Like who didn't know that? And New Line, fucking pay the Tolkien babies, whydontchya!
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I wonder if the ninja turtles ever got paid cause that was the only succesfull trilogy that New Line had before LOTR.
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Okay, not a lot of time to devote to this, but here's a quick and dirty legal analysis of the Fox v. WB lawsuit over Watchmen:
First, that hollywoodreporter story gives shit for detail. until the smoking gun comes up with the actual complaint it's impossible to tell exactly what Fox is trying to do, but for this post, let's assume that everything in the hollywoodreporter article is true:
Part One:
"Fox seeks to enjoin Warners from going forward with the project" - Fox is seeking an injunction that would likely prevent WB from continuing work on the movie. This will almost inevitably fail. The movie has been in production for some time now, and has been well publicized. To receive an injunction (or "stop work order"), Fox would have to prove:
(1) That Fox has demonstrated a reasonable likelihood of success on the merits of the case (i.e., that Fox owns distribution rights and WB is violating those rights);
(2) Fox will be irreparably harmed if the injunction is not issued;
(3) The threatened harm to Fox outweighs the harm the injunction may inflict on WB;
(4) The injunction will serve the public interest (this is usually a bullshit factor ignored by the courts when the matter involves private parties).
Factors 1 and 2 potentially weigh in favor of Fox (assuming they are being truthful regarding their deal with Largo, etc.), Factor 3 weighs in favor of WB. Any potential damage to Fox is theoretical at this point, but stopping work on the movie WILL cost WB many millions of dollars - this in itself is usually enough to convince a court NOT to issue an injunction.
Part Two:
"Fox claims that neither Gordon nor Warners has paid the buy-out price or advised the studio of any other conditions required under the agreement, including procedures necessary to acquire the rights to "Watchmen" from Fox"
This would appear to be the true measure of damages. If this all boils down to a breach of contract claim, then the amount of damages would likely be limited to whatever is required to satisfy the original terms of the contract. Gordon or WB would be forced to pay the "buy-out price" and satisfy whatever these mysterious other "procedures" are to formally acquire the license from Fox.
However, these lawsuits usually get filed only once informal negotiations have already broken down. If WB told Fox to piss off and believed they legally had the rights to Watchmen, then this could get messy. Emphasis on "could"
I just scanned the talkback again and agree with Mullah Omar in that Fox may have waited until now to file in an attempt to force WB's hand and make them pay what they previously refused.
Not to be a fearmonger, but I could also see WB fighting this case tooth-and-nail arguing that Fox was fully aware of WB's intention to produce Watchmen, and that Fox's failure to file this claim earlier has resulted in Fox having waived their right to assert the claim now, and that they should be estopped from continuing the suit. I don't think WB would win the argument, but if their attorneys do, then WB might fight for a while...
That said, I don't expect this to progress much further. There's too much money at stake and it just makes sense to pay Fox to get the hell out of the way right now. -
Get your shit together. Seriously. Cause if you've got Christopher Tolkien & Co. breathing down your neck, you're gonna need to tighten up.
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They ruin all the good shit
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Okay, I wake up this morning and start cooking for my son. TCM is running Joan Crawform films (and I am not a big fan of Crawford), so I turn on The Last Mimzy, thinking maybe I was too hard on poor Bob Shaye. Okay, yeah, I did see the sad attempt at creating an epic film out of a moderate children's adventure story, The Golden Compass. Yeah, I thought Shaye was foolish to let what seems like a reasonable request like an independent audit of LOTR to show he was meeting his contractual obligations. Now the Tolkien Charity has taken him to court after trying to settle out of court, again by asking for an independent audit? Brie, Guda, Muenstar, or Bob Shaye, it is all cheese. Oh, yean and Bob, even another viewing of Mimzy did not help it. Maybe you should become a Bushie. He rewards failure like yours as being the mark of a True American!
I will do some research on the Watchmen side. This deal has been in discussion for well over a year and now Fox steps in? I have to agree with the poster who said this was Fox trying to stop an anti-fascist message in the story. If Fox was trying to get their money legitimately, then they would have been in the negotiations months ago. This has not been a secret deal where Fox only heard about it last week. I would think it much more likely that someone at Fox just got around to actually reading Watchmen and realized what the message was. -
Exactly (re where are all those people). Glad you called those fuckers out. They're probably off missing the point somewhere else. Or maybe playing with their "rings" like Ringy9.
Do you think Ringy9 would spontaneously combust if PJ actually DID announce he was directing? Or would it give him a new jihad to sustain himself? -
Come ON... they make an asston of cash from the franchise and Peter's vision of the trilogy, yet when they finally get all the money, they forget to pay those RESPONSIBLE?
Talk about slimy hacks. I hope they get sued out of existance. -
A reasoned and coherent analysis of a situation on a talkback. In other news, record low temperatures in hell... :-)
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A film like that never getting released after so much of it is done would be a source of constant entertainment in these here talkbacks.
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I don't know whether to be upset as a fan or to be happy as a filmgoer cause I rather wait to have Peter Jackson direct THE HOBBIT. Not to take anything from Del Toro but Jackson is a true fan inside and he already knows the world of Tolkien, but damn, I'm going to be almost 80 when they start getting ready for pre-production. haha
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There is enough material to warrant 2 Hobbit movies; 1 page equals roughly 1 minute of screen time. So, 4 hours would equal 240 pages. The problem calculating this is that different editions have different page formats; however, the editions with the fewest pages I could find were both 320 pages long. If you were going to do an exact adaptation (and I know no one ever does) that would be over five hours of material. In terms of "bridge material" Tolkien himself tinkered and changed each edition of The Hobbit so that the story would fit better into the events of LOTR. Also, if you think The Hobbit sucked you deserve a punch to the nards.
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I have just received word that filming on the set of Wtchmen will be business as usual today.
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This is an important point about the Trust which hasn't gotten the 250 mill they're owed::"The trust, run by Tolkien's now elderly children in the U.K., supports a wide range of charitable causes including Save the Children Fund, the Darfur Appeal, Asia Earthquake Appeal and the World Cancer Research Foundation."
So for those of you annoyed about your precious movie being delayed and not understanding why those mean old kids of Tolkien just can't be happy with the money they already have: the money the Trust will get will NOT be lining the pockets of the Tolkien family. The money--which New Line clearly owes--will be used to actually help people who need it. Imagine that. That's a little more important than how soon this film gets made. You want to be pissed off at something? Be pissed off at New Line--a movie studio that clearly has no qualms about pocketing extra residuals, even when they are making billions. These shitheads don't deserve the rights to Tolkien's work. -
Feb 12, 2008 10:02:20 AM CST
Simply, Fox didn't want to put any money into production . . .
by skidmarkedundies
So they let the WB put the cash into filming and production and wait for the time to pounce. It is very shrewd. Grimy, but shrewd.
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Whenever the studios and producers claim that they've acted correctly and paid you what you're owed - they're lying. EVERY TIME. I'm not being sarcastic. That's why the WGA had to strike (and let's face it, they won) and that's why the Tolkien estate will win, too. Because New Line will pay them 14% of gross if it keeps them from being legally compelled to open up the books and reveal to EVERYONE just how much money those movies really made, and subsequently how much more money everyone is really owed.
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We absolutly need another revolution here in Great Britain. As long as we just target arseholes to be lined up and shot it will a popular one too. Who's with us???!!!
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Sorry WB. Fox will hold you to a higher standard. Please stop production on Alan Moore's Watchmen: The Motion Picture.
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Feb 12, 2008 10:33:01 AM CST
Wow Warner Fox says join Blu Ray you do...and then they Fox you!
by stormwatcher
Yeah, its great, higher prices, a leash around our neck that Sony holds the grip to, overpriced players that ensure no one will buy them en mass till 2009-2010. Oh by the way, here's a lawsuit against a movie that is in the can. Boom we love you. Welcome to the new order.
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Fuck Shannon Elizabeth!
Fuck Christina Ricci! Fuck Angelina Jolie! Fuck Eliza Dusku!
Fuck Uma Thurman!
Oh, wait..you guys meant...never mind. -
watched on my big TV...Am I the only one thought this? Felt like a CGI Braveheart knockoff with a few pretty pictures, zero depth, dull, cliched story, and really kind of boring. It wasn't even that "cool". Reminded me of the way I felt about the Underworld films...all flash, no brains. Makes me nervous about Watchmen. Watchmen should be a brainy movie. It was a terrific read.
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Quickly looking over the 113 page complaint from Fox (http://reporter.blogs.com/thresq/files/FoxWatchmen.pdf), it looks like Fox is pushing to get distribution rights to Watchmen. They want a cut of the film or their payout and a smaller cut. Should they get it? That depends greatly on exactly what deal they had with Lawrence Gordon. I will try to go through the document more thoroughly.
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...up against the wall when the revolution comes, closely followed by insurance brokers and estate agents.
Vive la revolution!
Citizen Fish x -
Remember when the studio fucked over the writer of "Forrest Gump" by saying that movie didn't make ANY PROFITS!! Money sucks.
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They would have screwed up The Watchmen. They better not mess with Zack Snyder or I will take out my own brand vigilante justice on them.
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...exploded yet? Where's the random insertion of irrelevant franchises to bash LOTR? Where's the hate? The venom?
Maybe folks are just saving their energy for the big Indy trailer talkback which will shortly be upon us? -
Watchmen is a very risky property, even though it is a great story. So rather than bothering to make it themselves they can just wait for someone else to front the cost, get the talent on board, then they sue, and can pick up anything on the back end. Brilliant. Obnoxious, but brilliant.
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... that the world of movie making is dominated by greedy fucks who couldn't care less if they made money from selling weapons in Sudan or entertaining the masses. Not the actual moviemakers, mind you, but those corporate fox-fucks up there. It is a business, I know, but where's the integrity to make good and honest pictures. Was there ever such integrity? I don't know, but we won't get it with these pieces of shit running things.
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When I first saw that episode, I thought for 3 seconds the "old" Simpsons had returned. alas, no, but the stuff with Moore et al was the best smile I'd gotten out of the Simpsons in years.
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I think both, actually. Ringy9 would spontaneously combust and then, like in that Dr. Boll movie, jump into a catapult and fire his own flaming body upon the parapets of New Line.
But not before subjecting talkback to months of meticulous, inane and seriously disturbed drivel. -
Do your jobs.
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Exactly. We as a society will be much better off when all the people that understand the legal system are dead.
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Ah, but what color of fire would he be? Surely he wouldn't allow himself to be the actual COLOR OF FIRE!!!
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I almost choked on my sandwich!
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I say, let New Line keep the entire $6 billion, for art's sake. I guess you people siding with the Tolkiens and (previously) Peter Jackson have no interest in seeing Final Destination 4, Butterfly Effect 3, and Boob Job 2, huh? (How's that for irrelevant franchises DocPazuzu?)
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if anything interferes with the release/production of Watchmen, I will murder somebody.
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Ha, Ha! That one was just sitting there (like a nostalgic gift) and I had to take a swing.Next up: the color of the sunsets in KING KONG!
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Hey,
Fuck fox?? Kill people? Jesus people fucking CHRIST it's just a movie based on a comic book you've already read (or should). Is life so meaningless that you'll even suggest such a thing? Fucking pathetic...truly...
http://tinyurl.com/ysm7hg -
Maybe Wesley Snipes and the IRS should demand an independent audit on the Blade trilogy. After all, the gubment gotta eat!
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Me thinks Thatcher didn't ruin the UK...but the trade unions did! In fact, me thinks even New Labour Tony thought the UK's prosperity was due to Thatcherism and his goal - taken at face value - was to harness those gains and better fund the social program(me)s. There's more evidence to cite on the European Union being the ruin of the UK than Thatcher ever could have been.
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It's a children's book, after all. The RB production was my first exposure to Tolkien, and it blew my six-year-old mind. As an adult, I can admit that it's not as good as the book, which tells me we don't need more movies. If we do get more more movies, I want the so-called "Bridge Material" which there is a ton of, and is awesome. Finally, I bet fifty bucks that we get to see Comedian do Miss Jupiter doggystyle in "Watchmen." What the hell is wrong with Zack Snyder anyhow? We've seen dude's favorite position in DOTD and 300, and it is neither creative nor sexy. I might have to hook him up with a proper slut so he can learn some new stuff.
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Something that size won't be getting canned unless a retarded monkey is making the calls.
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It's not a curse if your own stupid actions bring it about.
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Leave it alone!
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If you can get over some of the terrible design choices (the elves especially) and are, at best, OK with quivery voiced hippy acoustic pop tunes.
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New Line will settle quickly, and Del Toro will apathetically direct an apathetic version of the Hobbit, apathetically faithful to the look and style of Jackson's LOTR. Meh.
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Feb 12, 2008 1:29:30 PM CST
99% of the moviegoing public has never heard of WATCHMEN
by shiftyeyeddog2
so don't go saying that WB will lose a lot of goodwill or that people will boycott them. Most people (outside of the fanboy community) are oblivious to this film being made, and won't notice if it is changed or never sees the light of day.I myself DO want to see this movie, I'm just saying that just because we in our little fanboy world here are well aware of it, don't assume the general public gives a shit.
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these things make hollywood look like it's full of a bunch of greedy bastids..
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I completely forgot that most of hollywood is full of greedy bastids. Damn New Line! and Damn Fox!
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The Tolkien Estate raped my childhood.FOX gotta eat.
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would be a blessing in disguise. I'm sure they'd screw it up, like hollywood screws up every adaption they do.
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Is that they totally cut the pirate ship storyline from the film. But I suppose you already knew that...
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they're filming it, but it won't be included with the theatrical release.
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From what I have been told, it is not going to be filmed at all. I am getting my info from directly on the set, but I guess anything's possible...
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may be outdated news, but I hope it's still a go..http://tinyurl.com/2t7fhl
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I just sent my boy a text. They are (obviously) busy during the day, so sometimes I don't hear back from him until later. Will post as soon as I hear something. Last we spoke on the phone, he said it wasn't going to be done, but I hope you are right...
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.....about getting screwed out of his cut from coming to america if you really want to get a good idea of the lengths these studios will go to to avoid paying people the money they promised.
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I raised that very same thought when I saw 300.....I couldn't for the life of me see why everyone thought 300 was evidence that snyder was right for watchmen...watchmen is an incredibly smart piece of work. It is clever, intelligent, deep and wonderful. 300 is one of the dumbest movies I have ever seen. It has no soul...no depth...it is completely empty. It is the textbook definition of all style zero substance. There is nothing there at all that shows snyder is capable of bringing watchmen to life in the way it deserves. I am not saying he can't do it I just never uinderstood how anyone could claim that 300 was evidence to the contrary....300 was thick as pig shit
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i suggest you read the graphic novel...snyder set out to do what he did...he brought the pages of that book to the screen...read the novel...its not about depth, its about an epic battle...its loud, brash and cinematic
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Do any of you legal wizards have anything to say about that? Maybe that's why New Line knew nothing of it. It was sitting in a dusty drawer in the attic of the Tolkien estate and was just found recently.
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Count me in as a Fox hater. I am SURE they knew the movie was being made but waited till the buzz and insider scoops showed that Watchmen had wings then pounced with the lawsuit. Why bother if the thing was going to be a turd. ( Jury is still out for me having read Watchmen about 15 times. But the Buzz is good so far ) News Corp ( Fox ) one true mantra is is that your stupid and they want your stupid dollar. If the movie had been made at Fox.. Well It would have been LXG the movie with Owlman, Rorschach, and the rest. Brrrr. Gives me chills just thinking about it. Think about is when was there a really good movie made at Fox? How about a great TV show at Fox? ( X-Files? Firefly? The Simpsons is on autopilot and Family guy is a simpsons clone and was canceled before Adult Swim )And its " News " Channel is nothing but fear mongering and propaganda. The Post is a tabliod and the Wall Street Journal is not as trusted as it once was due to Murdochs one sided greedy world view the he incorperates in all of his properties. The High Road is not optional at News Corp and they think your dumb. So its no suprise that they would do something as sneeky as to try to kneecap Watchmen prodution to get a piece of the pie now that they found out the movie might be something.
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this movie's been in and out of production for years, and now, of all times, this is brought up? after it's been fucking filmed? that's truly effed.
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Where there's a whip, there is a way.
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they want to go after dollars? Certainly they must have known for a long time this film was in production. They may levy all those claims, but they must know it's only in hopes of increasing their chances at getting SOMETHING financials out of WB's Watchmen production. If it was purely driven by their potential loss of revenue from WB making this film without the proper rights, they would have filed this suit when production started. Surely, they've been around long enough to know that at this late stage, it's probably worth their time to take the gamble on suing and getting some kind of financial settlement than fighting a big battle up front, possibly winning, then having to put up money to make the movie themselves - which risked being not successful at the box office.
and they want to skim some money off it from WB.
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Fuck Fox.Fuck them up their stupid goat ass(s).
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You go Adam!
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I mean really, can't these people just get their crap together? I wish I was totally rich so I could be this stupid. Why not just pay the Tolkien dudes and then everyone gets more money? And then why on Earth would Fox show up this late to say they own Watchmen? And WB should just have paid them as well. So they're both asshats. They just all need to take some gingko and fix this so we can watch these damn movies.
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it's called "due dilligence." Just because a contract is old doesn't mean it's not enforceable just because some party didn't take the trouble to find it. But it does add a wrinkle to the case.
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Peter is after money, the estate is after money. You made plenty New Line. Don't be greedy.
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Sure... not saying it's not enforceable because it's old. Just wondering if both New Line or Tolkien Estates were aware of it from the get-go. Stranger documents have turned up after years of hiding in a pile of unread junk-mail. I mean, just this past weekend, under a pile of unread AZTEK THE ULTIMATE MAN comics, I found a contract signed by Bob Shaye promising to give me final approval rights over who gets to direct Watchmen.Too soon?
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Apologies--I see a lot of nonsense flying about these boards, and sometimes I reply a bit too tersely. Anyway, my guess is that probably both, and undoubtedly at least the Tolkien Estates, knew of the document you mention (if it exists--I dunno), but the thing is, the more money at stake, the less relevant any single document is, for a variety of reasons. One, if there's a lot of money, that means that there are probably *lots* of agreements, because the scale of the enterprise is bigger. Multiple and possibly conflicting agreements need to be sorted out to determine which one governs, and both sides will have their own respective positions. For example, New Line might have the position/understanding that some agreement adverse to them was superseded by a later agreement (or rendered ultra vires by a previous agreement). Two, where there is more money at stake, there is more at play to pay the lawyers. Which may sound like a cynical thing to say, but it isn't necessarily. Say you and your friend get in a disagreement about $5. You aren't going to hire legal counsel to suss out exactly who owes who what, because it's just $5 and because you want to preserve the larger, more valuable relationship (your friendship). However, if corporate entities A and B get in a fight over a half-billion dollars, there is a huge budget available to hire lawyers to explore every single argument (and there are tons) as to why or why not some set of contracts is valid or not, so all those issues become prominent. My guess is that, here, they settle, for an undisclosed amount, and the move gets made. This probably isn't even delaying things, production-wise, because the different wings of New Line (business and creative) each know darn well that the money people will work out the bumps so that the creative people can make a lucrative product. Of course, the fact that one side in all of this is a trust headed by Tolkien's kids makes this a more interesting game, as they have interests in addition to money: this is their family name and their father's legacy that is at stake. So they might not want to act economically rationally, and may instead be seeking something above and beyond money.
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and it is shit. all you have told me is that the graphic novel must be terrible as well because 300 is unwatchable garbage. one hundred percent pure trash.
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Feb 12, 2008 7:44:04 PM CST
Was that really the chromatically-challenged flaming corpse
by half vader
of Ringy9 back there? He must be in shock at the moment. Or lying dormant.
DocPaz & MNG - snotsnorting good posts! -
Must appear in the Silmarillion or something.
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Some of the issues with LOTR might come down to due diligence, such as the Tokien Charity. However, I remember reading the reason Peter Jackson asked for the independent audit was not for his benefit, but because someone in the cast did not get any money off the merchandise with their image. Bob Shaye looks like he overreacted to a contractually legitimate request by Jackson. If you went to your bank and asked them to show you why you don't have as much in the bank as you thought you had, and they went ballistic and refused to deal with you anymore, wouldn't you believe something was wrong? A reasonable person would check, correct the error and then check for other errors to prevent other surprises.
Now with Fox, I know Watchmen has made the rounds and maybe someone at WB missed something in the due diligence. From a quick review of the complaint (it is 113 pages!), my guess is Fox is looking to get it's basic costs (about $ 750,000) plus interest and 2.5% of the gross OR get the distribution rights to the film. Now the interest on 20 years might run WB about $2-3 Million with 2.5% of say $150,000,000 that would get them approx $6.75 million at the high end. This is just a rough guess after glancing at the paperwork. Now if someone at Fox misread just one of those 113 pages or missed something in a later document, then they might end up with nothing. -
If the studios claim they never see it, and the filmmmakers claim they never see it, and the theater owners don't make money, where does it go?
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...that's who I meant, New Line, not the Tolkien estate. New Line and Shaye are the money grubbers. I'm just a total Tolkien whore who wants everything he ever wrote turned into a movie including 'The History of Tom Bombadil's Underwear, Parts I thru IX.' So, point your high-minded indignity gun elsewhere...precious indeed.
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...was going to be cast as a gay hooker who hung out at the docks of Laketown. Tra-la-lolly, for a fin I'll touch your trolly!
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I've seen worse films.
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of the merch (and I know how that feels!). You're a standup guy, Bob Shaye!
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Re: Watchmen.... wasn't Paul Greengrass prepping this film to be made at Paramount not too long ago? Did they have a deal with Fox? Does anyone know?
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Philippa Boyens wanted a transsexual so they cast Ann Coulter instead.
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You're the one who wrote, "...Jackson's LoTR turned on many, many people to read the books thereby fattening the Tolkien estate's bank accounts. I'm sure NOONE involved cashed any of those checks." Just thought I should point out that this outstanding money owed by NL is for the good guys and is being used for good causes. New Line, in this case, is the only money-grubbing entity. Sorry I called the hypothetical HOBBIT movie precious, btw. Hypocritical, since the book, like all of Tolkien's major work, is indeed precious to me. And a movie, done as well as say Jackson's FOTR, would indeed be a wonder (and needs to happen soon if McKellen and Co are to be used). We're pretty much on the same page, I think.
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Feb 12, 2008 11:06:12 PM CST
DAMMIT i want to see THE HOBBIT and THE RETURN OF THE SHADOW!!!
by tenfingersofdoom
the tolkien trust and the tolkien society want to protect the integrity of the professors works, the only problem is that they are zealots.
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Congratulations to New Line for going the extra mile and managing to screw a DEAD writer. Even the hoards of Sauron wouldn't stoop to that hideous feat...
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I never did find out what that was all about, as I wasn't there at the time and "in" on it. But even though it's a site for the disemination of film related information, Harry had to wave it in our faces.
Can anyone fill me in? -
All interest in this died when ROTK was over. That was the best movie in the trilogy. That trilogy was awesome. We don't need The Hobbit or "Frodo goes to Bree".
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sad.
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What, me confuse? Yeah, I can see where you would get that Le Vicious Fishus. That was more of a dig at Christopher T. for refusing to allow any more of Popsy's books to become movie vehicles. I'm glad the estate spreads the wealth to do good things and the popularity of the movies has only provided more funding via book sales. I can also certainly understand why, considering the way New Line/Shaye has been acting, he wouldn't want to allow any more of Tolkiens works to be used by movie producers. Sorry for the confusion and, yes, we are on the same page. So, were you pleased, overall, with LotR the movie?
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You weren't serious with that statement, were you? "All interest...died..."? You need to get back to your nap.
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But fuck Sack Znyder more!
Or buttfuck Sack Znyder more.
Whichever.
All you fucks who think 300 was a great movie are the same fucks responsible for encouraging Hollywood to lower the fucking bar to the point where some halfwit shit-monkey like this can not only thrive but prosper as well.
A FAT FUCKING POX ON YOU ALL!
I'd rather see WATCHMEN go unfilmed for all time, than be reduced to a "slick looking" but generally unsatisfying popcorn flick.
BTW, Frank Miller ain't the "be all, end all" of comics & 300 wasn't even his best work.
Put THAT in your mouth & suck on it.
However, THE HOBBIT news sucks - mainly because I'd like to see Del Toro get in on that fattened cash-cow of a franchise with as little difficulty as possible, and I can't yet fathom how the fuck New Line thought they'd get away without honoring contractual obligations pertaining to what has to be one of their most successful properties. Fucking stupid. -
Good summary. WB's rebuttal is weak because FOX can point to the trail of failed Watchmen productions as to why they waited until now to file. It's going to be easy to show that no one believed this flick was ever going to be made until the last frame was shot, and that FOX presumed the rights would eventually revert back to them. I don't think WB was aware of Gordon's outstanding deal because it would have been logical for them to bring FOX in as financial co-producer since it's a one-shot and not a franchise.IMO, it looks like an attempt to shore up the bottom line due to the strike. Projections are going to be off for every studio.
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Feb 13, 2008 11:33:04 AM CST
If only this would mean Snyders Watchmen would never see the lig
by mrjjonz
For Snyder is shit.
2 films made . . .2 heaps of shit
Dawn of the Dead was awful and 300 was even worse
Hopefully his fucked up Watchmen will never be seen.
Unfortunately it will be and I'll probably spend money on seeing it. Hollywood just keeps tricking me into swapping money for shite at the cinema -
...but I can't blame the Tolkien heirs for not wanting anything to do with future release rights. I mean, put aside the greed factor for a moment, how utterly stupid can New Line be? Talk about killing a Giant Golden Goose (robot or otherwise)...if they would've handled it right, future rights to the Silmarillion could've been had. Six billion dollars worlwide for LotR and I'd bet the farm that COULD have been only the beginning. I'm staggertated beyond belief.
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As I understand it from our conversation last night, the entire Black freighter sequence is gone and it doesn't seem like it was ever filmed; at least not in its entirety. There are 2 indications of it in the final film. One with the psychiatrist and another with the kid in NYC before it gets destroyed. Also, filming is almost complete as of yesterday...
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I didn't mind Dawn of the Dead, but I agree with you about 300. That said, my friend on the project is a long-time fan of Watchmen and he really seems to feel that they are doing a great job. I can't say much other than that I trust him on this one and really think people may be surprised. Of course I haven't seen it yet either, so...
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Their handed gold and decided to shit all over it.
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That sounds like a good idea to me, let's spray diarrhea on it the enormous piece of gold we stumble upon.
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Shouldn't we wait to see the film before we decide it's garbage? I mean, that's fair, right?
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Thats your 5 second summation of this entire story+talkback. You are very welcome.
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Didn't we get most of the Hobbit story at the start of Fellowship?
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I'll just stick with my copy of the goofy animated version!
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...if you'd pry yourself from the Star Wars Universe for a moment and pick up the book you'd know. What is the point of your post? What you got in the Fellowship prelude was the portion of the story (very breifly) that told how the Ring was found (Chance, or was he meant to find it?) by Bilbo. When Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, it was not the major thrust...that only came with the sequel, LotR. In fact, the first edition saw Gollum willingly giving the Ring to Bilbo after he won the Riddle Game. Tolkien revised the Hobbit to mesh more closely with LoTR. Both of which are only the closing chapters of that great backstory, the Silmarillion.
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