Feb. 7, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST
by Monkey Man Zero
Damn login delay!
Feb. 7, 2008, 11:37 a.m. CST
Is it just me or do those remastered shots look just as bad as the Hardware Wars special edition "remastered" scenes?
Feb. 7, 2008, 11:38 a.m. CST
Agree. Make it watchable. Lose the Ferengi as comedic relief. 1990s appreciation of Klingon culture (violence and honor-be-all) is not a replacement of 1960s Vulcan culture (logical thought and peaceful activism). I'm not one of those fans that think Deep Space is the end-all, beat-all. OTHERWISE, love TOS remastered!!!
Feb. 7, 2008, 11:38 a.m. CST
by Napoleon Park
Embiggen. As in "Wow, that Heidi chick sure has embigguns."
Feb. 7, 2008, 11:51 a.m. CST
by Bill Clay
The problem is that so much of the original show has to be cut out, to make way for all the additional commercials being run today, that many of the episodes appear disjointed with missing plot points. I've seen episodes that would have been unintelligible if I hadn't already been familiar with the plot.
Feb. 7, 2008, noon CST
that'd be a cool myth
Feb. 7, 2008, noon CST
Replacing Shatner, Nimoy and the rest of the gang.
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:04 p.m. CST
Looks like something out of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Not impressed. The only one I've been really impressed with was the wide shot on Vulcan for Spock's marriage challenge.
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:08 p.m. CST
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:18 p.m. CST
which way is up and which way is down in the middle of deep space?
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST
by The Skeptical
"How do space ships always seem to know...which way is up and which way is down" There is no up an down is space you dummy. Your TV has a special chip which determines where down is at the time you watch it, and the image is rotated to match your local graviational field. This is called a "V" chip, because a V always points down. <p> If you don't believe me, try taking your TV to Australia and watching this eposide there. The ships will look correct, even though you are upside down near the bottom of the globe.<p> The level of ignorance in this talkback amazes me.
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:25 p.m. CST
DEEP SPACE NINE, for anyone capable of appreciating good storytelling, was brilliant. <p>For the newbies, the food chain of awesomeness goes TREK CLASSIC > DEEP SPACE NINE > THE NEXT GENERATION > ENTERPRISE > VOYAGER. Where to place THE ANIMATED SERIES is a judgment call, but having watched it recently, I'd say it's at least ahead of VOYAGER.</p>
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:33 p.m. CST
the space station is actually the configuration that they used for one of the current books, which was based on the old 60's-70's 80's FASA games.
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:33 p.m. CST
by Kid Z
...oyager, then Enterprise... nothing Star Trek realted sucks more than Enterprise... except maybe that movie they let Shatner direct...
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST
by Kid Z
...Voyager, then Enterprise... nothing Star Trek RELATED....etc....
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:44 p.m. CST
Actually, I like the original shots in a lot of these, at least compositionally. Any time the camera is close enough to the Enterprise to give a sense of enormous scale. I like the idea of revisiting this stuff, for fun, but I almost wish it involved extra scenes instead of replacements. All this is a work of art, even relatively primitive effects.
that cg looks so much worse than the original stuff. it's called depth of field, folks!
Feb. 7, 2008, 12:46 p.m. CST
They're just putting in the F/X's that Roddenberry wish he could have at the time. They're not trying to make it super realistic. They're staying true to the old fashion look of the TV series. I'm sick of of this mentality that everytime CGI is used. It supposed to look photo realistic. That's not what they're going for here.
Feb. 7, 2008, 1:04 p.m. CST
first of all this is a great episode. second, generally they've done a good job with the remastering because they've been careful NOT to make the changes too obvious or garish. in this case the original stuff didn't need to be changed
Feb. 7, 2008, 1:08 p.m. CST
by uss cygnus
From Introduction of the Dominion Threat to the end of the series blows most of TNG out of the water. Most, but obviously not all.
Feb. 7, 2008, 1:09 p.m. CST
by uss cygnus
Damn you, Rick Berman.
Feb. 7, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST
It's like proclaiming your hate of Party of Five on a Lost talkback.
Feb. 7, 2008, 1:17 p.m. CST
TNG had better characters, morality storylines, and less technobabble. (Okay, all non-TOS series suffers from technobabble.) Ooh... but give DS9 fans a story arc with a war and spaceship battles... Ooh... how inventive. But I do give Avery Brooks the credit for making them watchable!
Feb. 7, 2008, 1:25 p.m. CST
by Abin Sur
Weren't THAT bad, and some were even pretty watchable. I've been looking at the rebroadcasts on HDNET - maybe the beautiful high-definition picture is what is improving it for me.
Feb. 7, 2008, 1:28 p.m. CST
by Sadat Quoraishi
'warp ass'? Do you see what I did?
Feb. 7, 2008, 2:22 p.m. CST
The new effects are MUCH better. I always hated the recycled footage, especially the Botany Bay from Space Seed. The multiple Constitution class ships were terrible, especially once one was gone and they stayed in that "square" formation with one missing. I don't recall if they specifically mentioned that all of the ships were Constitution class in the episode, otherwise, it would have been nice to have used other designs, like the Reliant for instance.
Feb. 7, 2008, 2:30 p.m. CST
by C.K. Lamoo
Starships fighting starships was better in Wrath of Kahn.
Feb. 7, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST
NOTHING CAN HURT YOU, I GAVE YOU THAT!
Feb. 7, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST
I agree with you Orionsangels, that yes, they're not supposed to look photo realistic, but the shiny chrome cg textures kinda make it look like early 3D rather than 60's miniatures. It would be fun if they added back a little film grain too, but I'm being picky. I never pictured the Enterprise as shiny metallic, but an off-white.
Feb. 7, 2008, 3:32 p.m. CST
After this incident, Richard Daystrom was to be committed to an insane asylum. He escaped and used the Guardian of Forever to travel back to the 21st Century. He changed his name to Barack Obama and became President in 2009. In 2010, His new design--SKYNET became sentient. OMG--it all makes sense!!
Feb. 7, 2008, 3:36 p.m. CST
If you really like the original stuff so much, they're out on VHS and DVD cheap, uncut, and without commercial breaks, or you can download them directly from a torrent site or rent them from netflix, so stop whining for crying out loud. THE REMASTERED SHOWS AREN'T FOR YOU!!!!! Adding in new CGI shots are an attempt to give something fresh to existing fans that will appreciate it, and maybe pull in some new fans who have been raised on Star Wars, video games and low-budget CGI on shows like that thing with Kevin Sorbo. They don't give squat about "it's the performances and chemistry of Kirk, Spock and Bones". I personally like the idea of adding new CGI to pump some new blood into the series, but don't think they take it far enough in some cases (worlds, establishing city shots, backgrounds, CGI creatures). Hell replace the Gorn with something truly frightening (I was scared when I was 10, not it's a guy in a suit). They need to think of these as remastered and repackaged Producer's cuts, and even involve Shatner and Nimoy while there's still time to do some audio rerecording and the like. The producers seem so scared they are gonna tick off the "nothing will ever make me happy" purists, they they are just doing a safe little nip/tuck instead of a major revisioning. Either that or they are trying to keep it as low budget as possible, so the effect is just minor. I'll bet if Roddenberry had all these post-production toys available today in his toolbox, he wouldn't have been suspending plastic models from fishing wire.
Feb. 7, 2008, 3:40 p.m. CST
I'm currently in the process of rewatching DS9 and it is actually better than I remember. The characters are more interesting and the plots are more developed than I had recalled and the develepment of story arcs is quite unusual for Star Trek. It was quite a refreshing change after having watched Voyager - Although I wish they could have dropped the exploding consoles routine. Are those things backed with C4 or what? With the slighest combat they will explode killing the nearest extra. The space combat is looking a little stiff these days, but they did some pretty impressive work with models.
Feb. 7, 2008, 3:47 p.m. CST
Shatner outthinks Blakula !!!!!! Shatner is my pappy!!!
Feb. 7, 2008, 4:40 p.m. CST
nothing beats the space combat in later ds9
Feb. 7, 2008, 5:12 p.m. CST
Dittos to Kovac, darquelyte, and Orionsangels. thecapedrevenger, bear in mind that the budget often had a lot more to do with what we saw (and re-saw) of the Enterprise than artistic choice. I too like the closeup shots... love the way the ships were filmed in TMP and Khan... and we've gotten to see a lot of new ones. Utamoh, just get a crappier TV!
Feb. 7, 2008, 7:15 p.m. CST
by Alen Smithee
Because they are all the same class of ship - constitution class. Named sp because of the first ship to launch with that particular design. The Reliant was a "reliant class" ship.
The Reliant was actuall a Miranda Class ship, but who's counting.
and "actuall" is actually spelled "actually", but who's counting.
Feb. 7, 2008, 8:55 p.m. CST
Feb. 7, 2008, 9:17 p.m. CST
Oberth class, Excelsior was th Excelsior class, and Saratoga was a modified Miranda.
Feb. 7, 2008, 9:28 p.m. CST
I ask because those FX shots look like shit. I've seen other remastered episodes in passing and they looked pretty good, not nearly this bad.
Feb. 7, 2008, 10:24 p.m. CST
you stupid moron. It pisses me off enough to login and submit a comment, and that's saying something, considering how worthless you are. Die?
Feb. 7, 2008, 10:43 p.m. CST
Most of the space combat in season 7 was reused footage from earlier Deep Space Nine. In fact, I even think there is footage from Star Trek: Generations in the final episode. I've watched the later seasons a lot and it's crazy to go through the earlier stuff and say "Hey! I remember that shot from season 7!". The actual new stuff in season 7 is bad CG. You can tell because the ships are too bright and look kinda glowy. It wasn't until season 7 that runabouts started burning my retinas. Thankfully, most of the footage is reused. ;) PS Deep Space Nine is the best Star Trek series ever.
Feb. 7, 2008, 11:08 p.m. CST
by Cletus Van Damme
Smack it up, flip it, rub it down...oh, noooooooo!
Feb. 7, 2008, 11:22 p.m. CST
I know, I know, the argument is that they're just using the technology that they wished they had at the time. But they didn't have it at the time. So why put it in now when it looks that crappy? And for that matter, why are these new shots somehow the exact technology that Roddenberry wished they had? He didn't wish they had even better technology? The argument doesn't work; the bottom line is that the remastered shots are no improvement whatsoever and serve no purpose other than "oh look, there's a remastered shot."
Feb. 7, 2008, 11:52 p.m. CST
by Ye Not Guilty
They are all oriented to the Milky Way galaxy. It’s “up” is up. The nav systems use a three-dimensional coordinate system. The 0 of all axes is the center of the galaxy. This is why the orientation is always the same.
Feb. 8, 2008, 1:20 a.m. CST
I understand what you are saying, and clever as your explanation is, the real reason all the ships on Star Trek are always oriented the same way is that it's more aesthetically pleasing that way.<br><br>I can accept that Starfleet would have some uniformity in their starship orientation, but I find it remarkable that every ship they ever run into is orientated the 'right' way. They never come upon an alien vessel facing its belly, but always nose to nose. (I now welcome the litany of cases where this is not the case.) It's not scientific, it's just the way they do things on T.V.
Feb. 8, 2008, 1:21 a.m. CST
ships travel in a straight line across a horizontal axis, you never see them take off in the direction of one its corners.
Feb. 8, 2008, 3:55 a.m. CST
Nice work on the re-mastering of TOS.
Feb. 8, 2008, 5:37 a.m. CST
Here is the first official image of the new design: http://www.spackonauten.org/images/enterprise_aus_wurst_gross.jpg
Feb. 8, 2008, 5:38 a.m. CST
Feb. 8, 2008, 5:39 a.m. CST
you must delete the 'space' between the words!
Feb. 8, 2008, 9:07 a.m. CST
by Damned if I can login
Does anyone know if the episodes on the DVDs include the scenes that were edited to make room for the updated effects? I suppose I can understand making room for the commercials when they're broadcast, but what about the DVDs?<p>Another thing to remember is that in the days of TOS an hour-long progam ran for something around 50 minutes, with only 10 minutes or so of commercials....unlike the 42 minutes or so we get in today's TV world.
Feb. 8, 2008, 12:55 p.m. CST
Have any of you seen some of the recent covers of the nicer ST paperbacks, the ones that take place in the original series continuity? The images are really powerful, really giving the sense of these old ships as bulky, probably not 100% safe, military-style craft. Dont know what the new movie is going to do, but I do love the look of the old show, its own consistency, and I dont blame these FX guys a bit for wanting to explore that world. That said, I guess I do wish they had more money, or I wish that Enterprise would have really gone for it in a retro feeling way. I think it could have been very, very cool, and really made the show seem to take place in that vintage 60s future.
Feb. 8, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST
they are infact uncut, but the editing is the syndicated edits, even some of the new CGI is cut for the edits for TV sadly.
Feb. 8, 2008, 1:31 p.m. CST
by God's Brother
...that I CAN'T FUCKING STAND. There, I said it.
Feb. 8, 2008, 5:56 p.m. CST
I agree, they should have gone that direction in Enterprise, instead we got a twenty fourth century ship with round nacelles.
Feb. 9, 2008, 1:07 a.m. CST
...I've seen fan renders that look better than this stuff. Seriously, my gaming rig could do better in real time than what these guys are cranking out.
Feb. 9, 2008, 7:33 p.m. CST
by Real Deal
We've been over why the CGI looks slightly simple. It's so it doesn't look out of place with the rest of the show. They've actually said thsi in interviews about the FX. So it's not just me making excuses. I like the look!
Feb. 9, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST
by Real Deal
I have the first season already and it's uncut.
Feb. 11, 2008, 2:10 p.m. CST
I love the upgraded effects. And thanks for showing the before-and-after shots.