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About This Rumor The Writers’ Strike Is Ending??
I am – Hercules!!
Lots of outlets have been running around all weekend saying the writers’ strike could be over as early as this week. May be true, but we’ve heard rumors like this before.
Here, for the record, is a Sunday afternoon statement from the WGA leadership, who are actually participating in the negotiations:
To Our Fellow Members,
While fully mindful of the continuing media blackout, we write you to address the rumors and reports that undoubtedly you have been hearing.
The facts: we are still in talks and do not yet have a contract. When and if a tentative agreement is reached, the first thing we will do is alert our membership with an e-mail message. Until then, please disregard rumors about either the existence of an agreement or its terms.
Until we have reached an agreement with the AMPTP, it is essential that we continue to show our resolve, solidarity, and strength.
Picketing will resume on Monday. Our leverage at the bargaining table is directly affected by your commitment to our cause. Please continue to show your support on the line. We are all in this together.
Best,
Patric M. Verrone
President, WGAW
Michael Winship
President, WGAE
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While fully mindful of the continuing media blackout, we write you to address the rumors and reports that undoubtedly you have been hearing.
The facts: we are still in talks and do not yet have a contract. When and if a tentative agreement is reached, the first thing we will do is alert our membership with an e-mail message. Until then, please disregard rumors about either the existence of an agreement or its terms.
Until we have reached an agreement with the AMPTP, it is essential that we continue to show our resolve, solidarity, and strength.
Picketing will resume on Monday. Our leverage at the bargaining table is directly affected by your commitment to our cause. Please continue to show your support on the line. We are all in this together.
Best,
Patric M. Verrone
President, WGAW
Michael Winship
President, WGAE
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I didn't wait for eight fucking months just to see eight fucking episodes. WE NEED MORE LOST!!!
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8 episodes won't do it for me!
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Where's that story, Herc? Or is the big guy going to post it? It's on the news at imdb.com.
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with the state of tv comedy, they should just renew the damn series. never understood the shite ratings it got with your americans. Or get it on cable or something.
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i'm the biggest Lost fan ever but i think the finished 8 episodes might be all we get, at least until the fall.
I'm sure they want to complete the season some way & somehow but I don't get a good feeling about this. -
i'm sure the ABC PTB would be fine with that, especially with the promising premiere ratings.
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miss that as much as the show nearly. is that banned by the strike? they're just talking after all, not writing.
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http://tinyurl.com/yvfaax
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Paradise Hotel is becomming a viable option...GAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
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I'm pretty sure the podcast is affected by the strike. It is hosted by ABC, after all. I'm sure it draws a lot of visitors to their site, not to mention determine some viewers to rewatch the episodes along with the podcast.
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if it weren't for Nick Counter being slightly less useful than the crust on a hollywood crack whore's douche bottle, there would have been no strike. Nick told the AMPTP that the writers would cave in.
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they'll probably get away with not doing any for these first 8 eps if it doesn't end soon
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In the WGA for us? Also for the other side?
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Oh give me a fucking break.
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if the strike doesn't end until march, what happens to Heroes and Lost, Office, 30 Rock? I realize some of those shows aren't dependent on season-long story arcs
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in it together. Unless you work for a company that was willing to make a deal. In that case you can go and work and make money while your fellow writers cannot.
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I'm fed up to HERE with their crap. Get this thing settled. I've lost nearly ALL respect for the writers. They will NEVER recover what they've lost in this silly strike. Get back to work while there may be some sort of job for you.
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Your blaming the group without a contract, or the power to actually make a contract. Overpaid or not, the writers aren't the ones with the power to actually ratify this contract. All they can do is suggest what they WANT in the contract.
They recovered nicely from the 89 strike, which lasted longer than this one by the way.
In the end if the writers would end the strike TODAY if the producer's offered favorable terms.
So really your venom should be pointed at the Producer's and Nick Counter their negotiating President person. -
Feb 04, 2008 8:25:52 AM CST
FIRE the lousy deadbeats!! T.V. has never been better without th
by rectalscan
I don't miss ONE SINGLE talking head BS crap-fest from those hacks. You guys eat anything that is spoon fed to you :(
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Just agree writers so you can finish up Lost!
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why?
if you like what the writers produce, then how can you fail to be sympathetic for their demands?
if, on the other hand, you don't like what the writers produce, then one assumes you should be happy to forgo the entertainment that they provide, right?
bitching about the writers going on strike makes no sense, unless perahps your own livelihood (or that of a friend or family member) depends on that of the industry. but if you're just an ordinary tv viewer, why wouldn't you want to support the reasonable demands of the folk who make it entertaining for you? they're the ones losing money, not you, you douche. -
Oh, and when LOST's eight episodes are finished, I'll be gearing up for DOCTOR WHO Series 4. You don't see the Brits costing their production people their jobs...
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It makes perfect sense to bitch about the writers, and I don't understand why anyone supports them. They want demands above what anyone else gets on the picture. It makes no sense for the person who arguably puts in the least amount of work to get the most credit. The writer finishes the script and then they are out of the production, and their script is usually rewritten and adlibbed and everything else by the people that actually put on the show. Directors, actors, they are the ones that do the heavy lifting. And the producers? They are the ones putting up the money and supporting the production to the tune of millions of dollars. Writers deserve to get paid but in no way do they deserve any more royalties then they're already getting? Why do they deserve more than who builds the sets, who controls the cameras, and who actually funds the production to begin with?
Am I losing money? No. Is an entire industry losing money? Yes. Thousands of people that have nothing to do with the strike losing out.
End the strike. Quickly. -
Who needs writers?
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Here's hoping this week brings the end of this strike, which hasn't been good for anybody except American Gladiator fans.
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I take it you aren't actually a writer, then? Because your post, especially your "observations" about how writers don't do that much work and about the actors and directors adlibbing lines and whatnot is incredibly naive. On a television show, writers aren't "out of the production" after they finish a script. It's just silly to think that writers aren't a part of the group of people that "actually put on the show." Without them, there is no show. The same can be said of actors and directors, as each group is as important to the process as the other ones, but everything is traced back to the script.
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This is breaking news. We need more information on this more so than any other movie. More than we needed Cloverfield info. More than we need Indiana Jones info. Arrested Development!
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Strikes are not about what people deserve. They're about what people are willing to work for and what people are willing to pay for. No one cares if you feel sorry for the writers or not. You're opinion doesn't matter. The writers are the ones right now who are putting themselves at risk but then they're taking a stand to make a better life for themselves. Pretty soon, it's the studios who are going to be hurting when they don't have any shows to start the Fall season with. Advertisers don't pay top dollar for reruns and half baked reality shows. Then a year from now, the movie studios are going to find a huge hole in their release schedules. You think the writers don't do anything? Who do you think does those rewrites on the sets of tv shows and movies? It's not the producers or the directors.
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you ignorant slut." Your absolute ignorance is apalling. Anyone who has read, and comprehended, even the slightest bit about the strike knows that whatever the Writers Guild gets in their contracts, the Directors and Actors guilds will get also. It's called "parity." Look at the fact that Directors Guild already gained concessions in their new contract that the writers are still in strike over. What does that tell you? It means that the AMPTP is screwing with the writers because they're a bunch of bastards. It's not the Writyers who have walked out of numerous negotiation sessions and refused to bargain in good faith.
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Feb 04, 2008 9:48:37 AM CST
I do not support the writers. Like them less and less every day.
by happybunni
Conan without writers has actually been better than with writers. There are what seems to be very few quality writers doing TV work. Most of them are penning scripts for crappy sitcoms and daytime soaps. There are very few good shows on TV, and that has more to do with the director's involvement and actors commitment than the actual script of the episode. I am not seeing why they can't just hire some college kids to give them ideas and go with that. Writers alone, especially in these days, do not solely produce good work. If you look of the writer's work these days, in movie & tv, the fast majority is crap.
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Taste the happy talkbackers
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before you get all self-righteous about writers, learn how to write. "Fast majority?" And as for "why they can't just hire some college kids," fuck, why not hire college actors and why not just slap cameras in the hands of stoners instead of paying those production personnel... Director's involvement and actor's commitment would mean jackshit without a script to hang it all on.
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when it aired on G4. Although most don't consider G4 a network anyway. An Arrested Development movie sounds a little like Serenity, Part 2. The core fans ( I am one ) will love it, the rest won't get it.
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has several things going for it that Serenity didn't. Batemen, Arnett and Cera have all gone on to pretty good post-AD careers. Cera alone will bring a lot of people in who made Superbad a hit. In fact I'd say he's probably the biggest draw for an AD movie.
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I just hope they can afford Michael Cera. :D -
Some people may think that a vast majority is significant, but i say that a 'fast majority' is a lot more meaningful. What good is a majority, after all, if you can't put it together in a hurry?
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...is AICN talkbalkers talking like they know how the industry works. Carry on.
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Feb 04, 2008 10:47:38 AM CST
Ah-But Who Wrote the Press Release? Fuckin' Scab...
by read and shut up
...try the veal.
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For everyone saying "get back to work" to the writers... well... I don't think anyone is stopping any of you from picking up a pen. Go scab if you're so sick of it. The studios will find a way to use you (you'll meet in a back alley and leave your opus behind a garbage can).
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I agree that the writers are an important part of film/tv making (duh) and historically the most exploited part of the creative process, but this strike is poorly planned and executed. The public don't understand why the writers are picketing things like award shows (who cares if they go ahead unwritten). The producers have, for the most part, just sat back and allowed public disgruntlement to grow. Sure they're losing money but at the same time they're saving a lot of money with expensive to produce scripted shows out of production and cheap reality crap still drawing the crowds.I do agree that the writers should have a decent contract, and the producers' assertion that they make nothing of digital downloads is BS, but the WGA is badly run and this strike has been mishandled from the beginning.
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funny that a guy who is raving about this being a pointless strike chooses his talkback name to reference to David Duchovney's lawsuit against Fox Network for his share of distribution rights of The X-Files.
Irony much? -
the writers suck, sign a deal and get this mess over with, stop trying to get public support and focous on the contract and lets hope the under appreciated crew that works on the shows gets to collect a paycheck again
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is that the current plan is to have this strike outlast the strike in the 80s (22 weeks), to 'send a message' to the studios. if that's true, we're only in week 13 of this current strike, so they'll be striking until at least mid-april
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It's rumored there may be a SAG strike in June.
If writers want a bigger piece of the digital pie why not actors?
Doesn't bother me they still make foreign film and tv. -
would have my support if they had finished this TV season before striking. That would have given both sides several months to negotiate without much pressure, but still would have given the writers leverage to kill the fall season if they so desired. Instead they acted like spoiled children and killed a lot of shows in the middle of production
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Judging by your post, I think you could be a writer!
Except that you still need to learn how to be in any way clever or witty. Or even mildly entertaining.
At all. -
I remember an older post where I asked a few people to tell me why they hated the WGA's strike so much. I posited that it was just an illogical hatred. Almost all the arguments used could have been used against the studios as well (they're greedy, they won't compromise, etc.). There was one brave soul who at least admitted that he had an illogical hatred (his words) against unions. At least he was honest.
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I think that's the big news of the day.
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I believe that's called a PlayStation.
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Is that what you call it, anchorite?
Wow. With wit like that, is it any wonder you're confined to internet message boards? -
having a few pilots in the can hurt the WGA's negotiating position? One episode does not a season make. As for "illogical" hatred of unions, I think it's a product of experience. Most of us spend 13 years of our lives dealing with one of the worst and most selfish unions on the face of the Earth: the Teacher's Union. Not to mention all of the positive experiences we have with those cheerful union members down at the DMV. At the end of the day we only really hear about unions when they're causing an inconvenience in our lives. Unions are great when they're improving working conditions for steel workers and coal miners. They're not so great when you have suits fighting other suits over pennies per DVD sale.
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Some of you guys are ignorant, stupid, dumb ass shitty people. BOO FUCKING HOO, your favorite show is not on. Writers are standing up for what they believe in, and they are rightfully entitled to what they are asking for. And trust me, very few of them are paid "well" as was mentioned here. RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE NOT GETTING PAID A DIME (except for residuals). MOST OF THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE RIGHT NOW, they have to continue to strike as members of the WGA. If anyone has a right to complain about the strike, it's the writers, not you whiny, ungrateful bitches. You make me sick.
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*shrug* You cannot deny that the writers do the least work and put up the least risk of anyone involved. Therefore they should get the least benefit. They are not the most important part of a production, they are merely just another piece of the puzzle. Sure, you can't make a production without a writer. You also cannot make it without someone to build the sets, someone to design, someone to work on the CGI, someone to just make the damn credits. Somehow though it's only one group that thinks they're so important that everyone else needs to be out of work because of it.
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Reading further I see that there are some people who are rightfully pointing fingers at the WGA rather than the writers. But seriously people...just remember who is taking the hits right now. You are deprived of a form of entertainment. They are deprived of a means of income.
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I can see where the WGA is coming from on this one. But....
Like it has been said above, the strike is hurting TONS of crew members. My bestfriend is a struggling actor out in LA. He has been making due with collecting unemployment checks. He usually is able to get decent stand-in work or perhaps a line here or there. But he has nothing lately. He said he is able to pay his bills and not much else.
Also I started thinking about this strike in a devil's advocate sort of way. I work for a company and I can't help but feel like you get hired to do something and you do it. If an engineer at my company designs an upgrade for a product and the product takes off, the engineer gets his salary. He doesn't suddenly get points and shares and high profit sharing or any other sort of compensation. I don't know. I always figured writers are hired to write. That is their job they are fulfilling for a production company.
I don't know. Bottom line, this is fucking up the season of Lost. -
Feb 04, 2008 12:34:14 PM CST
If the actors strike then we're really screwed, but the writers?
by happybunni
A lot of ways to get past the writer's strike. Improv and editing, creating shows from finished scripts, importing scripts, remakes. But no actors? There are shows without writers, but there are no shows without actors. It would be interesting to see what form the entertainment industry takes after everybody strikes and we're in recession
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It sounds like me, with the hatred of unions. I think they worked their magic a whole generation and a half ago, and then just started running in self-preservation mode. The Federal Govt has seriously stepped up its involvement in regulation and control of labor industries compared to the 1920s. The problem I have with unions in general is that they have dissolved the bond between employer and employee. Workers no longer bust their backs to improve the company and thus improve their own income/conditions/etc. They bust their backs for the union, and to hell with 'management' - in turn, the management doesn't care about the nanites that run the assembly lines. They only see the face of the union as a machine itself. Its no longer a human relationship, and you look at the mass exodus of manufacturing jobs from Michigan to see the final result of the union's power. Oh sure, the union wins its battles to force higher wages, and better benefits, and shorter hours, and longer vacations - and then the plant gets shut down and a new one opens in Dubai. The union will still consider this to be a great victory over management, despite the complete loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can't blame a company like General Motors for moving its production overseas. Its being outsold by Japanese auto manufacturers now, whose employees work hard not for the benefit of a 'management crippling union powerhouse', but for management itself. The company thrives, and the employees are rewarded not so much with bigger checks or more vacation time, but with the fact that they will still have their job a year later.
When a union scores a haymaker punch to the face of management, the only winners are the union executives - Joe Union Member loses his job to an overseas plant, and thinks that management took his job away because its mean and nasty and satanic. If L Ron Hubbard were still alive today, he'd say forget all this religion crap - the real money these days is creating your own union. -
that was hilarious
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Anytime someone uses the label 'neocon', they really mean 'those dirty Jews'
either that or they're using it because they heard someone else use it and thought it made them sound eloquent. Its just a clever PC way to say "Zionists" -
Do unions suck? Yes, they reward the ones who have "ins" GREATLY and also reward the crappy. The good stay medoicore. But this strike is crappy because: A) it is a strike, you are supposed to strike as a last resort. B) Way to strike mid season guys. C) The strikers having a you are with us or against us attitude. D) All the other people out of work are note ven talked about. E) It all just seems so selfish
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Sniff...
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I can say that this strike is hurting a lot more people than it's going to help. Yeah, they're sticking it to the movie studios, but they're also sticking it to all of the 'little people' who take their scripts and make them more than words on a page. I've been trying to get a job for the past three months, but I've been told that the few production offices that are left have been receiving 10-20 resumes a DAY for the same job. I understand that movies and TV shows wouldn't get made without the writers, but the same could be said for any position on and off set.
Writers should make a mental note now to stay as far away from movie sets as possible when the strike is over, because they're going to be a lot of broke, pissed off people waiting for them there. -
I'm not sure what you're implying, that the writer's strike is going to help me? Maybe they writers aren't getting what they're owed, but the majority of other positions in this town that don't get residuals, they get paid an hourly wage or a salaried wage, whether their work is going to the theaters, the internet or a garbage dump. Those are the people getting truly fucked by the strike.
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"...from the barrel of a gun." Yes, I say let the poor, oppressed Proletariat continue their crusade for $0.04 per DVD sold. They, who gave us such fine entertainment as MEET THE SPARTANS, NORBIT, MAD MONEY, LICENSE TO WED, GOOD LUCK CHUCK and INTO THE BLUE. Truly, where would we be without them?
Actually, where I am without them is happily catching up on my huge backlog of books, graphic novels, DVD season sets, and other sources of media entertainment. If the strike does drag on until the spring, expect the masses to just rub their eyes and step out into the sun, just like that old episode of THE SIMPSONS after "Itchy and Scratchy" is taken away from the kids of Springfield. Who knew that episode was so prophetic?
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The writer's strike has hardly affected the public; IMdB has reported mainstream America is either flipping channels or renting movies. The strike hasn't handicapped network revenue. And Letterman sucks, a writing staff notwithstanding--the douchebag apologized to Paris Hilton (practically on his knees) for cracking jokes about her jail "sentence."
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..I really do. They deserve more of the pie. However, this is the way of the world. The top brass get the money while those lower on the scale do the work. Writers are probably paid a lot more than most of the pecking order already.
Think of the rest of the staff. You are not just hurting the exec's wallets, there are many out of work who cannot afford it as much as you can! We also need more Lost, Heroes and 24 so will someone please give in? -
This strike needs to be over real quick because i need to know If JD and Elliott end up together or not
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That is the main thing I am now wondering. They couldn't have worked it out while still working? The strike HAD to happen ASAP mid-season? The strike had to kill a bunch of shows that were just starting to air? Is it all just to bargain a better deal?
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uh, yes.
strikes wouldn't be very effective if they caused minimal disruption, would they? the idea is to hurt the studios as much as possible. does it affect others? yes, of course it does. but that's hardly the writers fault. it's like blaming somebody on a hunger strike for the cook losing his job.
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please keep posting...grace us with your infinite wisdom you fucking cockknocker
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However, I must respectfully disagree. I think that a lot of the problems you are citing are not just problems within the unions. CEOs in the United States have a substantially higher worker to CEO salary ratio than the rest of the world. You could reasonably argue that they need to shed some of their salaries and give back more to the company just as you are arguing the union should do. Another sign of greed from corporate America is the insane severance pay CEOs create for themselves. I remember reading about one of the first female CEOs of Hewlett Packard getting millions of dollars in severance pay after she had been fired by the board for losing money for the company. Another fine example is Mike Ovitz who made more money getting fired from Disney than he made working for Disney. As you noted earlier, a union worker's job can be sent over seas, which means he has a real consequence if the company fails, but with the way severance packages are there are no consequences if a CEO gets lazy on the job. So you can just as easily attack the men up top for running the company into the ground (in my opinion they're more responsible) as you can the union.
The union members have no control over whether a CEO continually pushes on obsolete product. Back in the late seventies and into the eighties American companies kept on pushing bigger and bigger cars because they thought that was what Americans wanted. However, the Japanese automakers went the opposite direction and marketed smaller cars, giving the a foothold onto the American market. Once again, American automakers are pushing SUVs while Japanese automakers are pushing hybrid vehicles. History is repeating itself, and it's not the fault of the union member putting the car together, it's the fault of the shortsighted CEOs.
So, that's my spiel about unions. We probably won't agree but thanks for at least giving me an argument instead of a bunch of invectives. -
Well, that won't need any writers, I'm sure...
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be even less incentive for the AMPTP to negotiate with them. In a perfect world all negotiations would be in good faith. But we don't live in that world. We live in one where the AMPTP wasted several weeks of negotiations last fall by arguing that the residuals for WGA members should be totally abolished. Now, there was no way the WGA would ever agree to that. And the AMPTP never expected them to. It was a scare-tactic; a pathetic attempt to frighten WGA members into thinking that they should just renew the old contract since it would be "better than nothing". If the WGA members felt the AMPTP was serious about negotiating a contract they very well may have voted to postpone the strike as a goodwill gesture. However, the AMPTP's stance seems to be in favour of a prolonged strike in order to break the union, or severly weaken it, and allow them the legal opportunity to cancel long-standing production deals (which they themselves negotiated but now want out of). To continue to work for someone so unwilling to come to a compromise with you would be ridiculous.Of course, the WGA now seems to be participating in the same, as anchorite called it, "dick-wagging", as suggested by the rumour that they want to extend the strike in order to teach the studios "a lesson".
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here's a link to an interesting NYTimes article on Leno:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/arts/television/04leno.html
It answers some questions, like how Leno is able to write a monologue every night without a writing staff. It turns out he's been using a lot of old jokes. I assume his audience doesn't notice since most of Leno's jokes are pretty stale to begin with. It also suggests that he may be having help behind the scenes. For you Leno fans, it also gives him a few compliments. Interesting stuff. -
"strikes wouldn't be very effective if they caused minimal disruption, would they? the idea is to hurt the studios as much as possible. does it affect others? yes, of course it does. but that's hardly the writers fault. it's like blaming somebody on a hunger strike for the cook losing his job." Problem is this strike seems to be hurting everyone else more than the studios.. The writers, the production elements, the viewers. Why not just wait for the shows to rap up their season.. Then they would have had four months to talk it over, and people could have been more prepared while still getting the same effect and impact in the end.
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It goes directly into their health and pensions plans. Jesus christ, people....
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That would be a good idea. Stop the "my cock is much bigger than yours, my cock can walk right through the door" sort of thing from happening. It's like someone saying they want $200, someone offering $100, then a deal not happening, then the person wanting the $100 deal but the other person changing their mind.. Seems to be back and forth like that. One thing we can all agree on is that we want them to come to an understanding
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There will be blood.
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both sides would need to agree to a mediator. And who that mediator would be. Basically, they would need to negotiate that. If I understand the process correctly, both sides submit what they feel is their "final offer" and the mediator choses which is the most fair. For this to happen, both sides would have to want the strike to end and be willing to live with the other side's final offer if mediation does not go their way.
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If it were up to the WGA this would have been settled months ago. Even though I've had my qualms with this guild, like doing more research for one, they've acted responsibly about this prior to the strike and during the strike. Keep in mind they weren't the ones who walked away from the table almost two months ago. I feel awful for the folks below the line but quit acting like the writers and selfishly sacrificing them at the altar.
On a sidenote I wish people in the WGA and SAG would stop referring to eachother as brothers. No one in Hollywood on most levels get along that well. Comrades will be fine, brothers, no. -
Feb 04, 2008 2:43:42 PM CST
Bunch of bitches with a sense of self entitlement in here
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Wah wah the writers are my personal slaves they serve only to entertain me! Fuck them getting rightfully paid for there work! I want more Lost! You fucking morons, get over yourselves. I have no hope for this world. People supporting cock sucking corporations over artists, fuck you guys.
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What a bunch of soulless cunts you are. 80% of the writers barely make a living wage. Royalties are their bread and butter. If you don't like having to wait to see your precious fucking shows, support them. Don't talk shit just because you're a bunch of bitter fat kids.
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With Baseball Season starting in a few months, the writers could be squeezed out from people switching to watching live baseball instead of scripted Television.
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The studios will take a mile. Screw that.
"But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger:
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favored rage"
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Feb 04, 2008 3:04:55 PM CST
This isn't the writers fault in any way
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
Just who do the fucking studios think they are fucking fooling here? Yeah, I'm sure internet content is worth NOTHING, and even it was, I'm positive it'll never possibly ever be profitable in the future right? I mean who do these corporate suits really think they are fucking fooling here? They've got no reason for this to be as prolonged as it has been. They actually think anyone buys their bullshit excuses? They are just delaying what is going to happen. How can they sit there and say, "oh don't worry writer guys, this internet thing, it's not all that profitable, we'll handle it. I'm sure, being the internet, it'll never advance or improve and go off in directions that'll be even more profitable somebody. So, nope, don't worry about it writer guys we got it covered."
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Ever watch Doug whine about what MAY kill him this episode?
Jesus Christ During the Savate episode I really wanted the French to re-enact the assfucking scene from Killing Zoe with Doug.
These two are the absolute best examples of Ugly American I have ever seen.
The only positive side is they get the shit kicked out of them every episode. -
No more posting.We need to support the writers.
Matter of fact no more writing anything including e-mail and sick notes for children.
Thank You Comrades. -
bitch and moan all you want, it comes down to corporate greed. plain and simple.
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Basically the gang go on a world tour of prisons. S10 is filmed on location in Gitmo...
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The whiny talkbackers here will never, ever understand what this is about. These are the people who say movies will suck based on one photo, or that they'll never watch Lost again yet come on every week to complain about how they could write a better show than what they just watched, and oh by the way the Lost book they just bought was unimpressive as well. Yeah, who needs writers? Moriarty, a writer, gave up trying to explain it to these guys. You should too.
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I'm really waiting for FOX to finally get around to airing something like "Are You Smart Enough To Avoid Being a Prison Bitch?" where two peeps standing trial answer trivia to avoid going away for 25 to life.
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props
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Funny how someone brings up all of the production crews that are being put out of their jobs because of this strike, and the strike-supports ignore the comment, or say 'I feel bad for them, but I'm not being selfish, I swear'. What a load of horse shit. No one else in this country gets 'residuals' off of their work. An artists sells a painting, and they don't get shit if the new owner sells it to someone else. It really is pathetic how selfish and greedy the writers are being. THERE ARE SHITLOADS OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE NO JOBS BECAUSE OF YOU. But no, you want more money. Funny how you all say that the corporations are the greedy ones, when it looks plain as day that its actually the writers. Even the public has turned against you assholes.
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good ol' aussie time difference
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I somehow doubt the radicals who want to intentionally drag this out past 21 weeks represent the majority of the guild. Extremists do not in general speak for the whole group. If that were true every pro-lifer would be a terrorist because some wacko puts a pipe bomb in an abortion clinic. Chances are the only ones who are getting high off this strike are either aging hippies desperately wanting to live their glory day or some stereotypcial malcontents who like to sound like Joe Eszterhas. You know the assholes who like to pretend their smarter than everyone else by spitting on actors and directors. Read the Devil's Guide to Hollywood and you'll get a pretty good idea of the attitude I'm not talking about.
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Y'all know how I feel, anyway. Pay residuals to the foleys, make up artists, costumers, set designers, sound designers, other creative crew members AND the writers, or don't pay residuals at all.
Now argue amongst yourselves. -
Feb 04, 2008 4:30:58 PM CST
This "send a message" rumor: explain the deals with UA, Marvel
by brandloyalist
Sorry anchorite, your posts really do come off as typical union-smearing FUD, what with the allusions to rich, greedy, ego-driven union bosses, and the hard sell and many embellishments you are giving to this weakly substantiated rumor (which originated in this very talkback).
Considering the individual deals that have been made with a dozen-plus studios including players as large as the new UA and Marvel, I think it is reasonable for an outsider to assume that the other studios just won't give up on their desire to deny established royalties in emerging media.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that you yourself are probably less of a populist, concerned only with the hardships endured by the technicians and craftmen, and more of a union-hating conservative crank who'd be happy to see the entire IATSE replaced with Indian workers if they invented matter transporters tomorrow. But I don't know you either; I just read your posts, and that's honestly how you come off. If I'm wrong, I invite you to correct me by posting your opinion of unions and the labor movement as a whole. Why not throw in your take on NAFTA; there are many kinds of conservatives... Pat Buchanan is anti-labor but also very protectionist.
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"No one else in this country gets 'residuals' off of their work. An artists sells a painting, and they don't get shit if the new owner sells it to someone else." that is one of the dumbest, most ignorant, logic-lacking statements posted in this talkback (so far). you really deserve an award do you even understand what a residual is? do you have any basic business knowledge? do you get upset at work cause you think the cashier makes more money than you "cause they handle the cash", while you work the fry bins? i don't care if you do or don't support the writers, but at least try to make an intelligent comment!my god man, loosen up the helmet!
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could have started the neogitations in January of 2007. Instead each thought they would wait for the fall televison season to begin. Sorry to say it backfired on both sides.
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and whether it's on too tight? Right.But a nice intelligent rebuttle of my points. Helping me prove my point a little bit, I should thank you.
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about the Superbowl.
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Feb 04, 2008 4:43:58 PM CST
Go up to Richier's comments and replace writers with AMPTP.
by rbatty024
It's a perfect illustration of why those who don't support the writers don't make any sense. You can use the exact same arguments against the producers. If the producers had made a deal then everyone would be back to work, but instead they're being selfish and greedy. Looking through the posts it's interesting to note that it's the pro-writers who actually use things like "examples" and "facts" and "logical arguments." The pro-AMPTP just regurgitate the same tortured logic over and over again.
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"I think the writers and the rest of us will be back to work within two weeks"
according to his myspace. please please please don't be lying, i need more Lost -
The Toy Collector was shit.
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Take a look, in a book, it's reading rainbow... READING RAINBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!
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If the studios suddenly said ok guys we are not making movies and shows anymore beacuse of X reason, until it's fixed we are on strike, then there would be people against them instead.
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Its funny how I keep hearing how the writers are barely making a living wage. No one forced them to go into that line of work. Want to know why I never tried to become a writer? Because I like being able to live comfortably. I think that if you decide to take a risky career like writing as your own, you shouldn't bitch too much about how you barely survive. McDonald's barely pays you a living wage, how come no one is bitching about them? And to all of you who complain about the mean studios, they take ALL of the risk. The writer takes none. If a writer lucks out and sells some POS script/concept that gets made and never takes off, the writer still got paid. The studio loses money if the show is crap.
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that's a great argument. if only more people would follow in your financially secure footsteps, we might be able to get rid of the whole idea of an artist altogether! awesome!there are legitimate arguments to be made against this strike, but unfortunately many here (and you take the cake, kiddo) seem to have nothing more than "waah waah, writers whining. you make bad movies and get paid a lot, stop whining!"like the fucking asshat earlier that says "oh, you made pluto nash, thanks for that", as if that has anything to do with fucking anything.
how can anyone argue about the importance of the writer to a production? suppose I have an idea for an invention. I make a rough prototype, get a patent, and then I hire a company to build a more streamlined version of my product, another company to mass produce it, and another company to market it. it's still my patent. it was my idea. the government protects patents diligently for this reason: original ideas matter.I'm not saying production crews are not important. and their inconvenience in this strike is an unfortunate thing. but there is a difference between turning a blank piece of paper into a movie, and turning a lightbulb. sorry if that sounds disdainful, but honestly, political correctness aside. how can it be argued that the writer is not the genesis of most projects? as further evidence, check out the sad state of TV at the moment.whether you see one side or the other of this strike is one thing. implying that writers are simply overpaid children who are interchangeable, or worse, don't matter, is comically fallacious. -
..if its corporate greed on the part of the studios or personal greed on the part of the writers, we're the ones who get screwed. God I wish for once the people who do REAL work in this country would get the pay they deserve. Friggin whiney coke-head hacks.
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I'd love to be a writer, but I don't because it would be very hard to make decent money. What did they expect? If they want more money, produce and act in their own shows and keep all the profit. On the other hand, I fully support the unions right to strike. There is nothing wrong with that. But it is unethical for them to prevent anyone else from writing. That's just bullying. It's the lowest of playground behavior. I have had to join several unions--each time it was because it was the only way I was "allowed" to work in each trade. That's crap. I resented it, and imagine that I will always hate
that kind of thugery and it's implicit threat of mob violence.
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"If they want more money, produce and act in their own shows and keep all the profit."jesus christ...do people even think about what they're writing?yeah, that guy flipping burgers making minimum wage is an idiot. if he wanted more money, why not just buy a restaurant?and what about that coal miner working in horrible conditions. just buy the mine, dude! then you'll be living the good life!fucking hell, wipe the drool off your keyboard.
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and beer.
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They're being screwed out of royalties! If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't have your fucking tv shows so shut your mouths! You're all selfish bastards! Just because your little viewing routine has been knocked on it's head...
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As far as I understand what the issues are, I support the writers. I admit I don't know everything about all sides of the issues, but from my limited perspective, I support the WGA strike. I agree that it sucks how many other skilled laborers are out of work because of it, but the studios deserve just as much blame for that as the writers, if not more. I don't think the writers expected their entirely reasonable demands to be blocked so strongly for so long, but the sad fact is, one you start a strike, you have to see it through to completion, or the people you are dealing with will never take you seriously again.
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Glad somebody has the same view
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I am not saying to get rid of art altogether Bad Mr. Wanka (intentionally spelled wrong), I am saying that don't become a writer if you want financial security. It is like all the kids who see athletes making tons of cash, it is a very small portion of the population that reaches that level. Every one else plays sports on the weekends and does their real jobs during the week. Same with the writers. Most won't score that huge contract or script sale and they should plan accordingly. The absolute best though is seeing the actors striking with them, how laughable. Hey writers, want to see why the studios aren't willing to give you anymore money? Look immediately to your left or right at the actor standing next to you.
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Apparently, the average annual income for a WGA writer is around $68,000, and while that means there are some on the higher end of that and some on the lower end, I'm betting that's at least double the amount of money that at least half the people in this talkback make in a year.
And supposedly, the strike over internet residuals is so the writers can hold on to what they have as the market gradually shifts towards downloading. Well then, I have to ask why are the writers essentially gambling on residuals paying off instead of taking fixed pay-per-script amounts? You want more money? Then sell more fucking scripts (preferably ones that don't suck like the ones most of you have been phoning in of late) instead of taking a piece up-front and hoping for a big payoff later.
For THIS you cost people their jobs and get mad when people don't automatically take your side against the big, bad corporations?!
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again, i ask, do you understand what a residual is? I'll help you. From Dictionary.com : A payment made to a performer, writer, or director for each repeat showing of a recorded television show or commercial. Often used in the plural. do you understand that when you pay 1.99 on ITunes for an episode of "Retarded FuckNut Chronicles", Retarded Fucknut who wrote, directed and starred in his series see's none of that 1.99. Or when the studio tells Retarded Fuck Nut that the show is SO popular, the fans want mini webisodes in addition to the broadcast episodes, FuckNut tightens the straps on his helmet and busts out five 3 minute webisodes which in turn draws viewers to the shows website (which the studios have packed with paying advertisers) as well having paid advertisements at the beginning of each webisode (that you can't skip past). How much do you think old FuckNut gets for the exclusive webisode content that is generating advertising revenue for the Studio? none. As far as rebutting your point, selling a painting is different than creating something that is a constant source of revenue for a business. I can tell you that if an artists painting is used in an advertisement, or in a book, or as an album cover- they get paid for the rights to use that image as far as "no one else in this country gets residuals for their work", that is just an ignorant statement. of course not everyone gets residuals, not every job warrants residuals. Different jobs = different compensation packages. Talk to your HR rep at Burger King corporate, they probably have a pamphlet they can send you. Here's a thought, go out and produce something creative and then sit back while someone else makes a shit load of money off of it and offers you little to no compensation. in the mean time, please shut the fuck up.
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It boils down to this -- if you believe an architect should have part ownership of the building s/he designs, you side with the WGA. If, however, you believe an architect is strictly one piece of a much larger puzzle that can only be brought to life by the additional work of contractors, builders, plumbers, electricians, etc -- you side with the studios. A script, by itself, is nothing more than a blueprint. Though it can stand alone on its own merits -- it needs to be filmed and marketed to reach it's full economic and creative potential. Unlike books or even plays, screenplays by themselves do not work as viable forms of entertainment. They cannot be sold for mass consumption. If they could, the WGA members would not need the studios, actors, or directors, etc. They would simply publish their screenplays and reap the profits.
Given, however, that movies are a collaborative medium -- with hundreds if not thousands of contributors -- it makes perfect sense that those financially responsible for the film's success or failure (i.e., the studios and/or investors), retain the films profits. If not, how do you discern the value of each individual contribution? Case in point, though two films can be made from the same source material (such as the two Psychos)how that material is produced and presented can lead to two wildly different interpretations. Though the screenwriter's contribution is essentially the same, you can still end up with two entirely different works of art.
Screenwriters are architects, plain and simple. You have some famous ones, and some not so famous ones. You have good ones, you have bad ones. What is the mitigating factor behind a successful screenwriter vs. a mediocre one? Talent and creativity. If a screenwriter has truly created something original and worthwhile, he/she will be justly compensated for their contribution. We have seen this countless times over the years (i.e., bidding wars). If they are simply providing a service, however, they should be compensated like everyone else who provides a service is -- a fee, not ownership. -
The strike is coming to a conculsion. They are ratifing the language and the deal will be put to a vote, just as the decision to strike was put to vote. Who is right and who is wrong won't matter anymore - both sides will be giving up something and both sides will say that they won. That's business.
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That there's nothing but crap and drivel being dished out by the talent. That's bullshit that's a bizarre medly of elitism and nostalgia. I guess The Wire, Damages, Battlestar Galactica, & Arrested Development were all crap too. Sure, most of television is crap, its always been that way, but that is true of most artistic professions. Guess what, most paintings out there are crap. Most of the novels out there are crap. And we're lucky enough to get pointed to the select few of each that are of high quality. To make the characterization that everything being churned out is drivel is just silly. And if you want to give up just remember Turner Classic Movies has hundreds of titles for your viewing pleasure.
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simndermot, first off, congrats on the Wonka/Wanka joke, you are the 10,000th brain donor to think you are the first to use that lame joke. your professional sports analogy is nonsensical, so no offense, I'm going to ignore that.basically, you seem to be saying that since writing is a financially insecure career move, the writers shouldn't be surprised when they find themselves out of work. this is a HORRENDOUS logical fallacy. the writers understand that their jobs sometimes mean sporadic and inconsistent income. all the MORE REASON why they should make sure that they are getting their fair shake at every turn.your terribly flawed logical premise is akin to saying that someone who works as a coal miner shouldn't be surprised when they get black lung. well, perhaps, but that means that better safety measures are needed, better worker's rights, better health insurance options, etc. saying, "well they knew what they were going to get, fuck em", is not only mean spirited and ignorant, it's illogical in the context of a democratic society. people's rights don't go up and down depending on their job or their income.SpyGuy, following from that, your argument is by far the most common argument against the writers in this issue. saying that someone shouldn't be able to use their constitutionally granted right to strike because their average income is higher than yours? or mine?fair is fair. this desperate illogical reach for something to pin on the writer's always ends up on their "average" incomes. and it smacks of jealousy, not reasoned argument.
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Well said, best analogy yet.
On a side note, I'm completely fascinated by all these non-industry type people who seem to know what's going on. Got to thank the big bad internet for that one, plenty of arm chair critics around here.
Sadly though, this is, unintentionally I'm sure, the funniest talkback I've read on this site in years.
PS: this is my first post here in about 6 yrs. -
Do you watch Movies and or TV. Go light a scene and then come back and tell me which is harder. People like you my friend... people like you.
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I'm a film school grad and I've worked on shows and films as everything from a camera operator to a gaffer. and twice as a lighting tech. and yeah, it was hard work. but it was not a creative endeavor. I ran cable from here to there and did what the DP told me in terms of setting up lights.saying these jobs are difficult is obviously true. but saying they are as integral to a production as the writer who is the genesis of the idea, from which EVERYTHING ELSE is derived...that makes zero sense.
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the writers should be getting nervous.
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But everyone dies.
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Here's the DarkUFO link: http://tinyurl.com/3bzng4
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Confirmed: http://tinyurl.com/2qg7uq
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It's just him, announced so far, but since it's "The Comedy World of Judd Apatow and Friends", will we see anybody from Forgetting Sarah Marshall there? As in, you know, *her*? ;)
But a $750 ticket? C'mon... -
The word is imported shows, reduced spending on expensive pilot episodes, more reality programming, ordering less scripted shows from now on, order less pilots, cutting show runners, stricker development deals.
Writers will be offerd less and will have no choice but to take it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/business/media/04writers.html -
Why not advertise Betamax Video players? Would make the same sense. Bwhahahahahaha!
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I'm pretty sure that writers are paid for writing webisodes. It's not that they're not getting paid for their work. The writers argument is that they have no opportunity to earn residuals on things like that. The studios IMO rightly think of the architect analogy above, that when it comes to things like short webisodes (God, what a stupid name) that they're merely the designer of the blueprint.
It comes back to what I've been saying all along. The writers do the least work of anyone on the production and carry the least risk, but they want the most reward. They're worried because with the advent of reality television and youtube, the less talented ones will be without work.
It's a reminder of what Unions are now: A group to protect the least productive worker from getting rightly terminated. -
Feb 05, 2008 8:46:52 AM CST
This is what Bon Jovi was writing about (Livin' on a Prayer)
by darfurontherocks
This song makes so much sense now. I am particularly touched how Johnny had to sell his six-string because the union went on strike and times were tough..... Poor Gina...
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That was awesome.
This is a hard strike to look at objectively. Seriously, when GM workers strike, we can look at the issues and form our opinions but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really effect us. But we are all geeks who watch too much TV so we all have some personal investment in this strike. Which is why we get all fired up and some of us demand the writers to get back to work. In all honesty, this is the first strike ever that I have been paying attention to because I am selfish and want my TV shows back.
Yes...I am selfish, as are we all.
Let them strike. Whatever. I am catching up on my books anyway. Plus I have been watching old TV shows from NetFlix. So I am fine. By the way, the show Nip Tuck ain't that bad. I am on season two disc four. Oh look, disc five is coming in the mail today. So is the Blu Ray of Across the Universe. That's cool.
So I'll be fine. Though I wonder what I should have for lunch today. The cafeteria maybe? I don't know. I wonder if there is anything good today. Maybe I'll get a salad.
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It was TOMMY that had to sell his six-string. Get informed before you talk about the important issues.
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I apologize for my ignorance on this matter... :) I just hope that the writers, the studios, and the entertainment industry do not go down in a blaze of glory....
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While there are no scenes without a script, there are no scenes without lights, sound, makeup, costumes, cameras, sets, direction, pre-production, post production, acting, music, mixing, even food. The writers set things off, but without a LOT of other people, the writers would be out of a job. Without us, they could write all of the scripts they wanted and nothing would get done. It's a two way street. In the process of the writers trying to get four cents more per DVD sold, they decided to put all of the other people who work in this town out of a job. At this point, I hope the writers come back to work and the gaffers strike, just so everyone will shut their mouths about how writers are the most important part of the process. There is no one, singular, 'most important' part, because without ALL of the parts coming together, nothing gets done. I'm not getting paid residuals for anything, I don't have any money coming in while this strike is going on. This strike is going to do NOTHING to the studios, they have enough money as it is, but it is putting the rest of the people who work in the entertainment industry through some really hard times and no one seems to be noticing that fact. The only reason I want the strike resolved is so I can go back to work. There's no reason that they couldn't have continued to work while negotiating, they just wanted to 'send a message' to the studios. Well fuck that. I've heard that the guild wants to strike for 23 weeks, one week longer than the strike in the 80s, for the sole purpose of striking one week longer than the strike in the 80s. It's childish and selfish.
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Feb 05, 2008 12:13:36 PM CST
(Shot Down in a Blaze of Glory) The Plight of Cameramen
by darfurontherocks
....I never shoot first, but I shoot to kill.... Bon Jovi captured the trials of tribulations of cameramen who are largely viewed as hired guns by the studios...
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according to a report on reuters, the deal has been signed, and now we're just waiting for an announcement.
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"The writers do the least work of anyone on the production and carry the least risk, but they want the most reward."Yes, because what writers do is considered "pre-production" so other than scene changes or ending re-writes during shooting they don't do much if anything on the production. So I guess you are correct there. Or is it that you don't consider writing to be work? I think if you take the number of hours a writer spends on a script and compare that to the number of hours any given crew members spends actually working (not just waiting for the next set-up or for actors to show-up) you may find it's about even.As for "least risk", except for the guy whose money is being used to finance the picture, no one is at "risk" (unless you mean stunt men, but that risk is physical, not financial, and they are well-trained so the risk to them is minimal).And as for "they want the most reward" I have to ask: really?!? According to who? They are asking for an increase from 1/3 of a cent per DVD to 2/3 of a cent. Tell me, what do DGA or SAG members get? What do producers get? One last thing: I keep coming across the argument "why should writers get residuals when lighting, sound, makeup, wardrobe, etc, don't get any?". I ask: why don't the unions who represent lighting, sound, makeup, wardrobe, etc, get residuals for their members? Instead of the argument being made here that the writers shouldn't get it because others don't, we should all be championing the cause of getting residuals for ALL who work in the industry.p.s. snowtires is 100% correct that extending the strike just to "send a message" is indeed childish and selfish.
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My argurement would be that no one should get residuals. First of all, if it's this hard for the writer's to increase their share from 1/3 to 2/3's of a cent, what makes you think all of those other unions even have a shot from going from zero to getting some sort of residual??
And my second point is my previously stated point. The writer is working for the production company. They should be happy they're getting any residuals in the first place. Very few other jobs offer anything like this. A Lost writer writes for Lost/ABC as their job. The script is ABC's property now. The writer doesn't deserve anything more than that.
Now if you can refute that point to me rationally (instead of calling me an asshole or trying to generally insult me), I do have an open mind. But mainly I hope that this deal goes through and we can stop having these conversations. -
I want a share of the ad revenue Herc. I write on this site just like anyone else. I want a piece of that HD-DVD player pie!!!
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http://tinyurl.com/2l6omw. They could be back to work next week - finally!
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I hope the deal is made. More Lost!!!
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that everyone who works on a tv show or movie could get residuals. I just think it would be nice if the little guy got some extra coin for a popular product. I'm an unrealistic optimist. Really, if that were to happen DVD prices would go through the roof; maybe almost as high as Star Trek prices.You are right in saying that the residual package writers get is unlike anything you will find in most jobs. That being said, I am reminded of sales people I have worked with. Their job was to bring in new business. They would make the initial contact, make the presentation, and usually be the one to close the deal. But their involvement with the client would end there. Whatever transactions the new client made with the company was handled by another department. So whatever money the company made from the client came from the work of the agent dealing with the client and not the sales guy who brought them in.The sales people were paid a base salary that was minimum wage but they also got commission based on the revenue generated by the clients they brought in. If the company made money off the client, the salesperson made money too. Bring in a big account, rake in the big bucks. On the other hand, bring in a dud, and go home empty handed. The pay of the salesperson was tied to how well they did their job but also how well the company handled the client. A lot of other people, whose job serviced the client either directly or indirectly, and were in some way responsible for keeping the client happy, did not get any commission. But they got a much higher base salary. The sales people took the minimum wage sales job because they knew that if they were successful they could make a lot of money (more than most of us were making with our dependable paycheque). To pay them a base salary of what they were worth, taking into account what potential business they could bring in, would be extremely costly and almost impossible to predict. There was no way of knowing, when hiring someone, if he would be bringing in the million dollar accounts, or be a waste of resources.To finally get back to the writers (I took the scenic route), I feel it is very similar. In order to pay writers what they are worth would mean paying them $60 grand per episode rather than per year. Or more. The cast of Friends made $1 million per episode in the final couple of seasons (not including residuals), but how much did the writers get? They are the ones that created the situations and made them say all those funny things that so many people tuned in to see and hear. Writing is a creative endeavour and it's worth is difficult to gauge before the final product is finished. Will it sell or will it tank? If it tanks, the writer get nothing; if it sells, he gets his due; he gets his share of what his creation earned.
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I think one of my main points is this: you want me to "go out and make something creative, and then let other people make a shit load of money off it". Well, of course, in most lines of work, this is actually the norm. If I invent some amazing new web portal technology that helps streamline x and y to make my job easier, my company has rights to that invention, not me. It sucks to a certain extent, but that's how most of the world works.
Also, I understand the point about commissions, and how that somewhat relates to residules. However, it is my understanding that writers are not making minimum wage and 'hoping' for residules. They are making a half-way decent salery, and residules just happen to be a nice bonus because of the fact that they have a union backing them up.
Someone else made a point about there being no writers if you want a good paying job. I disagree with this statement. It would be similar to teaching if you eliminated residules. You would have decent writers making an OK living because they LOVE what they do. And you would have a smaller group of writers making a lot more because they are the cream of the crop (college teachers). If you want me to comment on anything other points i may have missed, let me know. -
and forth from previous talkbacks, from most of the same folks. Someone even trotted out that ill-fitting architect analogy again.
I can't find the energy to answer the strike's naysayers, so I'll simply suggest doing some reading at www.unitedhollywood.com. I've also posted a few things myself at thepodosphere.com.
I'd also like to express my appreciation to everyone who has supported the WGA in these difficult times, and urge patience and continued support while the process of negotiation continues. The writers won't take anything less than a fair deal. If the negotiators bring the general membership a lousy deal, I can tell you right now the writers will vote it down. If you want the strike over quickly, pressure the AMPTP. They can end this any time they choose.
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