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Quint checks out ROMAN POLANSKI: WANTED AND DESIRED and GONZO: THE LIFE AND WORK OF DR. HUNTER S. THOMPSON at Sundance!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I saw a lot of strong documentaries this year, including my two favorites AMERICAN TEEN and ANVIL: THE STORY OF ANVIL, which I’ve already reviewed.
I figured this was a good two to pair up as they are both docs about well known pop culture personalities.
ROMAN POLANSKI: WANTED AND DESIRED
“People have the right to their own opinion of this case, but they don’t have the right to their own facts.” – Douglas Dalton, Roman Polanski’s Attorney.
No story about Roman Polanski can be posted on this site without hundreds of talkbackers debating back and forth about this infamous ‘70s rape case.
This doc does not sugar-coat the facts of the case, but it also shines a bright light on the circus it became, showcases the Judge’s incompetence and shows how unjustly Polanski was treated.
It’s difficult to stand fully behind Polanski after he had sex with a 13 year old girl. You can go into the details and find many ways to place the blame of what happened elsewhere, but the ultimate truth is that he did willfully have sex with an under-aged girl.
Does that make him a monster? Now that’s the question. He’s been vilified for three decades now because of this, but is it deserved?
That’s what the documentary explores. For the first time we get to hear from Polanski’s attorney as well as the DA that prosecuted the case, giving an insight into Polanski’s trial that we’ve never had before.
I think even the most ardent Polanski hater will admit that he didn’t get a fair trial and will see why he ultimately fled the country. It’s not like he got charged and ran. He spent a year working with the court before he couldn’t take it anymore. I found myself thinking, “Well, if I was in his shoes I don’t know if I wouldn’t have done the same thing.”
When even the DA says Polanski was treated unfairly, when even the victim says he was treated unfairly, you have to question your stance on how this was handled.
This film is a fascinating look into this case and into the man himself. They never interview Polanski, but they do have footage of various interviews (usually BBC) with him after he fled and he speaks as honestly and open then as he would have now.
At the Q&A the director said she met with Polanski in France and he considered appearing, but ultimately thought it would be too much, that it would feel like he was asking the audience to pity him and his situation.
The doc is extremely entertaining and as someone who has read into this case before I found I didn’t know half of what went on.
Very fascinating look into a very troubled case.
GONZO: THE LIFE AND WORK OF DR. HUNTER S. THOMPSON
Holy Jesus! I love Hunter Thompson and in many ways Harry created this site as a sort of mixture of Thompson’s Gonzo style and Forry Ackerman’s cheeseball enthusiastic attitude. I love Thompson’s humor and wicked insight. Goddamn can that dude cut to the heart of a story.
Anyway, I saw FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS no less than 4 times when it first came out. That was my main introduction to Thompson and I have since read a good deal of his work (including a ton of collected letters he’s written).
I have to say there wasn’t much terribly new in GONZO, but it’s so entertainingly put together and thorough that I didn’t really care. You go from Hunter’s early work (a good deal focused on his time with the Hell’s Angels) all the way up through his eventual suicide and spectacular funeral.
The best parts of the doc were the interviews with people who knew, loved or hated Hunter. I never thought I’d say this, but Pat Buchanan was great. There’s a particularly fun insight to a moment when Buchanan allowed Thompson to sit with Nixon for an hour and a half as they drove to the airport together. Keep in mind Thompson hated Nixon more than any man can possibly hate a politician, yet he still talked his way into it.
There’s also a fascinating side to Thompson’s life after he did Hell’s Angels, Fear and Loathing (both in Las Vegas and On The Campaign Trail) where he kind of dried up. The reason they give in the documentary is that he became too famous. Thompson himself admitted it that once you get to be a celebrity of any sort you can’t be the same reporter because you’re automatically part of the story.
However I always thought Thompson’s ability to inject himself into his stories was what made them so interesting, so I don’t know if that theory is correct.
What’s also really interesting is the complete approval of the Thompson estate, so we get to hear a ton of Thompson’s audio recordings, including a good 4 or 5 minutes of one of the tapes that was recorded with Thompson and Oscar Zeta Acosta (Dr. Gonzo) in Vegas. Really great stuff there.
At any rate, the only negative things I have to say about the doc is that it needs to cut out all those goddamn shitty re-enactments. I hate those in documentaries… they always make real docs feel like cheap TV true-life-crime stories. And there are far too many of them in this doc.
Okay, I’m fading… still more Sundance to go… Holy shit! This will never end!
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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Jan 27, 2008 2:18:27 PM CST
What this 2008 pers. campaign needs is s'more Dr. Gonzo
by kentucky colonel
His presence on the pundit scene puts a damper on this (and all subsequent) political contests.
I got to have a shot of Wild Turkey with him once back home in Loserville when he was doing a meet & greet at the Memorial Auditorium...notable cause Johnny Depp (another KY boy, by the way) and Warren Zevon were also there. It was filmed for A&E (back when A&E was a damned good channel) but it never aired. Probably because all parties involved got shit faced on the stage, then left with a couple of barely-twentysomething hotties.
Damn I miss the man!
The car ride with Nixon is featured in "Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72"...a must read to fully understand the belly of the beast that is our political system.
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fucking non-typist!
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Jesus he's spinning in the grave!
I can hear it from here... -
On one hand, yeah you got the sex thing.
On the other though, he's a gifted filmmaker.
He's made some unbelievably good movies. I'm very much of two minds on the subject. I must check out that doc. -
Hey, it was the 70's. I woulda.
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Thank Christ! A jazz man!
There is a God!
And good quote too
"From nave to chaps..." -
No matter what, he RAN FROM JUSTICE. If he cares so much about paying for his crime, he should return to the US and face up to it. What he did was wrong. He knows it. Time to pay the piper.
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If he didn't make movies no one would give a rat's ass about him. All of his supporters would be all for throwing his ass in jail. He did it, he knows he did it, what the victim thinks is irrelevant as she was 13 at the time. When he saw he wasn't going to get away with it he fled the country. Very admirable. You would do the same if you were in his shoes? Hopefully you wouldn't have fucked a 13 year old girl to begin with. He's a pedophile who's too cowardly to deal with the consequences of his actions. What a hero.
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He is the perpetrator of statutory rape.Having sex with a girl younger than 16 in California is against the law.END OF STORYWhat pisses me off is the way Hollywood reveres this rapist. Once again, he may not be a pedophile or have pedophiliac leanings, but he STILL BROKE THE LAW!And this documentary is made by a fan of his, so it is about as much of a real documentary as any of Michael Moore films are. Meaning, it's biased towards PolanskiOnce again, he is a statutory rapist who has fled this country to escape responsibility for his actions.OF COURSE Hollywood is going to love this guy! It makes too much sense.
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That there are people out there still sticking up for this man despite of the facts. They are in black and white. No gray areas. Even he admitted he did it. He admitted he ran. Took the cowards way out. Couldn't face responsiblity for something he did. If he didn't direct movies and was an oridinary Tom, Dick, or Harry (my apologies if anyone with those names posts) he would have been tried, convicted, and done his time. No. Can he and all his followers understand that is a very sick thing to rape an underage girl? Nothing makes up for it. And what does Hollywood do? Give him an Oscar. Wow. An Oscar for a rapist. No matter how many movies or apologies he makes he will always be remembered for the rape.
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By paying to see his movies, you are supporting the work of a criminal. You are putting money in his pocket and sending a message that his actions are acceptable because he has talent. Would it really kill you to not watch a movie every now and then? There's more than enough great movies to go around that you could probably live a happy fulfilling life without ever watching a Polanski film.
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A lot of people suffer the delusion that statutory rape means that it was consensual sex. Polanski plead his case down to a charge of consensual sex but if you look into the matter a little deeper than what the Pro-Polanskis would have you believe, you'll find that he actually drugged and raped this girl against her will. She said no and he did it anyway.
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Yes. Yes it does.
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Would you really have a problem watching his films if he was properly convicted, stayed in prison for, say, ten years, and was released and started making films again?
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the review: "you may already have your opinion set in stone about Polanski, but you should see this doc for the whole story before making up your mind.the talkbckers: Polanski's a monster!yelling: 1, reasonable discussion: 0
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I love it that those of us who are repulsed by the drugging and raping a minor are the unreasonable ones. I've never paid money to see a Polanski film. Probably never will. No hypocrisy here.
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And Idioteque...it's OKAY just so long as you didn't pay money!?! And, friends, the more research you actually do into the people that influence you artistically the more you find yourself compromising your own morality. That's fuckin' life. Is what he did reprehensible? Absolutely and his reaction was nothing less than cowardly...that said...CHINATOWN.
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Think Polanski would have split if he were caught committing a different crime? It's hard to compare apples to apples with statutory rape; but what about a significant drug deal or something? I suppose it doesn't matter, he did commit a crime that is a horrible crime; then left the country to avoid punishment. whatever...he's a scumbag
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"I find it strange that Michael Moore got booed but everybody cheered for a child rapist."
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...he did photograph young nude girls and there was speculation he was sleeping w/ girls as young as 11
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...put video cameras in the ladies room of his restaurants.
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...recieved the Nazi Grand Cross of the German Eagle
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... once again, the facts are the facts. What he did is a felony. It is against the law to have sex with a girl under the age of 16 in California and most other states (I realize Hawai'i is 14). That means that even if she wanted it bad, it doesn't matterAnd the fact is, she DIDN'T want it. He got her drunk on wine (also a criminal act) so he could do what he wanted with her.Ever seen The Godfather? Remember the scene with the producer and the young girl? Didn't it turn your stomach? Well, that's exactly the kind of thing Polanski did, and how are we to know that it was just this one girl? What if there were others?No, BadMrWonka... there is nothing to discuss here. There is no middle ground. He's a felon who escaped custody. He broke a law that is meant to protect children from the acts he committed. He should have gone to jail, instead he's living it up in France.And what's Hollywood's response? It was just sex! Guess what, Hollywood, it wasn't just sex. It was a crime. I have to think that if this were a film maker like John Ford or John Wayne, it would have been a much bigger deal, because Ford and Wayne didn't follow in lockstep with the ideologies around Hollywood.Remember, what these people do best, is protect their own. So guys like Polanski and Aaron Sorkin and all of the other like-minded Hollywood people will ALWAYS be forgiven and their causes championed by the uneducated morons who put out garbage like Battlefield Earth or Alex & Emma.Remember, the vast majority of "power" players in Hollywood don't even have a full high school education. So I guess we shouldn't be so tough on them when they can't seem to understand laws and statutes that the rest of us fully understand and expected to abide by.POLANSKI IS A CRIMINAL AND A FUGITVE FROM JUSTICE!!!That is all that matters.
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damn fine films. Too bad most of them were in the 70's. Maybe that thirteen year old hussy stole his film making essence.
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...in an anti-semite holocaust denier.
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Fuck you. Fuuuuck you. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh huh huuuuuh huh huuuuuuuuuuck YOU!
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He should have denied her his essence, much like Gen. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove.
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And YES, he is a fugitive from American law enforcement. I mean, this was an early case of celebrity distortions in justice. He DID rape the girl by ALL definitions and was able to plea down to Statch....he only fled when he found out that he might have to spend 50 years in jail because the judge wasn't gonna go for the plea.
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That doesn't make me enjoy THE NAKED GUN any less.
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You can read the entire trial at SmokingGun, if you want proof. Polanski drugged the girl, and then raped her vaginally and anally despite the fact that she was trying to prevent him, and crying "no!". Pretty hard to consider that as consensual sex... If this documentary doesn't even aknowledge that Polanski committed rape, then it's obviously an extremely biased and dishonest documentary. Having said that, the trial wasn't fair because the judged wanted to make an example of Polanski because of his fame, and Polanski was gonna face a harder sentence than your average rapist. In final words: Polanski is a scumbag, but he is also a great movie director.
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Just got off the phone with Polanski...he said "okay."
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Everytime I'm on here...it's like the same 9 points over and over again. I'm just waiting for some one to bitch at my "OJ" post w/o reading my condemnation of Polanski above it. I weep for the future...
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Yeah, yeah, ok. Under-age sex. Fleeing prosecution. Whatever. It's very easy just to focus on that and call him a monster.
What about his wife getting fucked up by old Charlie? He was devastated for years after that!
I'm not defending him. What he did is wrong. That's something we can all agree on.
But even ti this day, his name still carries a lot of clout and he's still coming out with some quality movies. That's something I hope we can also agree on.
I'm not saying forgive and forget. I just don't spit at the tv when The Pianist comes on. -
Is this a AICN talkback consensus? It will be until some one, probably anchorite, fucks it up.
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Well raise a topic and we'll discuss it.
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What the fuck else is this site not doing anymore?!?! I feel like talkbackers basically write the best reviews on here....why don't we start coming up with the Harry cartoons as well. Kiddin' but i thought we WERE talkin' about Polanski.
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Jan 27, 2008 5:20:54 PM CST
Well it just sounded like you didn't want to talk about Polanski
by evilgeek1
Fair enough. Well I'd like to thank Roman for giving Adrian Brody a career (and no I'm not being sarcastic)
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What should the next cartoon be?
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The chest-bursting scene, with Harry as the Xenomorph!
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Admittedly it was before the statutory rape case, and my mum was in her 20's, but it doesn't mean he's not a filthy bastard. She turned him down, in case you were wondering.
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All we'll be doing is spouting opinions back and forth. We need a good sub-topic, in-directly related to the above article.
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It is one thing to break the law, it is another thing to outright tell the law to go fuck itself once you are caught. He would likely have served no more than 5 years in jail... for something he ADMITS TO DOING. It is not like he had sex with a girl who was almost 16... she was 13. Come on.
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Trilemma!?! Talk about an embarasing example of flawed logic. Alot of people seem to agree that the judge was gonna hand down a max (50 years) sentence...NOT SAYING he was justified or even anywhere near right, just saying that he wasn't lookin' at a Paris Hilton slap on the wrist. I haven't gone out of my way to support him SINCE and even thought the Pianist sucked...though Adrien Brody IS the bomb. But Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown are gems.
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I think thats the thing that bothers me about the whole situation. Not so much that he slept with a 13 year old girl, which is bad enough, but the fact that he can pretty much get away with it because he's got wealth and status. Anyone else would be rotting in jail.That being said, as much as the guy might be a perv, as much as he might deserve to be locked up, he has also made some amazing films that I love. I coulda kinda care less he's a perv, actually. its probably the same feeling religious people feel about pedophile rapist priests -- people forgive these priests and the Church that condones and facilitates the child rape because they like their sunday rituals so much. It's easy for these people to look past the institutionalized, facilitated, condoned and systematic rape of children in the name of Jeebus and continue to go to church and pay the Church's bills with donations regardless of the fact that the Church is essentially a giant child rape factory. So the same sin I commit by watching, and loving, many of Polanski's movies is the same as those who know the Church is a giant child rape factory, know that their very own child might be raped by priests of said organization at any time, know that they can stop only if they turn their back on the Church and demand it pay for its crimes, but continue to support it regardless of its countless crimes against innocent children. The same sin! Only way worst because there are so many more victims. In fact, I bet some kid is being diddled by a priest right now. Fight pedophile rape -- boycott the Catholic Church and Polanski. DO IT NOW!!!
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A real slow burner.
If Johnny Depp can turn the other cheek, why can't any of us? -
KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL!!! SAVE YOUR NIECE!!! SAVE HER FROM THE RAPE-POPE!!!
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Say what? A grown man raped a 13-year-old girl and his (cowardly) exile is "unjust"? No doubt you'll be drying your tears when someone shoots a documentary about Adolph Hitler ("A.H. was misunderstood, his hatred of Jews was fueled by Moe Howard's impersonations which Der Fuehrer described as 'gross caricatures'"). As for Victor Salva, this guy is pretty damn creepy. If you promote your personal lifestyle (non-ostentaciously), that's one thing: but Salva's JEEPERS CREEPERS is the embodiment of his id: the monster is a gay pedophile who stalks and finally tortures his nude prey (a teenage adolescent, whose underwear is recurrently "sniffed" by the predator). The sequel extenuated Salva's subversive fetishism. I guess a documentary (VICTOR SALVA: BOY AND MAN) is in the works.
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He makes great moobies. You should watch them all. Even the ones that kinda suck like that stupid vampire one and the Oliver Twist thing. Just like the Catholic Church makes those tasteless god cookies so well, you can't just turn your back on THE LORD GOD YOUR SAVIOR just because his minions rape children and get away with it. You still need to show up and eat those flat divine wafers! They're Jesusalicious!
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I'm not going to research everyone I spend money on, but if I *KNOW* someone is guilty of a crime I find deplorable and even worse, fled the country to avoid incarceration, it would be stupid of me to give him any of my money. And for those of you who bring up Victor Salva, I won't see his movies either but at least he served out the sentence for his crimes. If the victim was your daughter, or your sister or your mother, I doubt you all would be so forgiving.
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moves Mr_Saxon!and then shoot his dick off and let him bleed to death!Face shooting is for pussys(too fast)!
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This is of no consequence given the letter of the law.We all love to pump our fists like we're at an Arsenio taping when Chris Hansen busts an almost pedophile just before he courts a 17 year old. And yet, we should cut Polanski some slack? Simply because the victim said he was treated unfairly?Few are so "fortunate" as he to be able to flee justice.He literally screwed a minor. Hence, he should be figuratively screwed himself. So shall it be written. So shall it be done.
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Murder is right when you're doing it to kill someone who has had sex with a child? I love this hypocritical morality. I support Polanski as a filmmaker and when I read the facts of the case coupled with hearing about it directly from the mouths of the prosecuting DA and Polanski's lawyer I choose think he got a raw deal. For those who say he never served his time, the law gave him a sentence and he served it. It was when the Judge got criticism for letting Polanski off lightly he found a way to give him another sentence on top of that. From all accounts that sentence would have been Polanski willingly self-deporting, which he ultimately did anyway.Like I said in the review, it's hard to support him in this case, but even today's DAs and lawyers (and even the victim) think he was mistreated.It's easy to read the initial report and get angry. I did that, too, but the initial report isn't the whole story. If you see the documentary and think it's dreck, then at least you've opened up your mind to it and disagreed, not spouted out half-educated opinions. I can't claim to know everything, nobody can, but it's not like this doc was filled with people who love Polanski. The DA still dislikes him, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a miscarriage of justice regarding his case. I'm just saying you might be surprised how much perspective you can get when you listen to every side of this case.
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you're entitled to your opinion. you have clearly already made up your mind, which was my point. this review basically said that you should see this movie to get more info about the situation before you make up your mind. I thought it was funny that the talkbackers, you included, simply refuse to acknowledge that there might be other aspects of the case that you don't know.for example, you chalk up the general forgiveness of Polanski to Hollywood's habit of protecting it's own. and the court of public opinion follows suit, yeah? then why was it necessary for Polanski to flee? why was he unable to get a fair trial, as EVERYONE INVOLVED admits he didn't?my point is not that he didn't do a bad thing. obviously he did. my point (as you clearly proved) is that people have made up their minds while knowing very little of the actual facts of the case and the prosecution. Quint simply suggested you watch the doc to, you know, LEARN a little more with an open mind. and your solution is "I can't hear you! I can't hear you!"and just to add a little cherry on the top of your rant sundae, you threw Aaron Sorkin in the mix? what the fuck? the guy brought some mushrooms on a plane to vegas, how the hell does he have ANYTHING to do with this?you keep yelling and making up your mind before you know all the facts...I'll see this documentary and then make up my mind.happy ranting, brother.
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How about that Hunter Thompson guy, huh? What a character?
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Jan 27, 2008 7:12:12 PM CST
The girl was 13 - but she lost her virginity long before she eve
by forestal
You can read her account on SmokingGun. She had already had a boyfriend. Not that that really matters, but still...
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I read your "owned" post to "glovedone".That dude needs some facepunching too.
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It was getting a little lonely in here.
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What I meant to say was the 13 tear old alleged victim had already had sex long before she had ever seen Polanski. She wasn't exactly an innocent little girl if you know what I mean.
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Did he have sex with a child? Or did he not have sex with a child?This is not about Polanski as much as it is with an overly lenient judicial system. This is but one of very rare cases where the judicial system balked under pressure from popular opinion.
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But you have waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands. You clutter each of these talkbacks with tedious rants. Try exercising...try dieting...try orally communicating with your grocer or Good Humor Man...and then (unlikely, sure) try dating.
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Ah Thompson...
The man was a legend.
Like Saving Private Ryan, but instead of nazis, it was psychotropic drugs and peacocks.
The man was responsible for me having a "lost week". -
So I guess that makes two of us with too much time on our hands, huh?
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Germany,but she was 13 and no matter what you do or who you are.....DONT FUCK 13 YEAR OLD GIRLS!DONT DO IT!NEVER!IT IS WRONG!Do you disagree Quint?no hate for the man,but come on 13 is a no go.
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So the letter of the law be damned providing any raped woman had previously been deflowered?Bear in mind that the above counter point presumes you don't understand what "statutory rape" means -- in that the girl was too young to consent due to her age. Whether or not she thought she consented prior to her encounter with Polanski, she didn't. By law.
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Was about a woman that dressed slutty, acted slutty, and got taken by several men on a pool table in a bar.She wasn't exactly innocent. But damn if Jodie Foster didn't make a great movie out of it!
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That's established.
But if he got an unfair trial, I'd like to hear about it. I don't want to repeat myself, but I mentioned above about how Charlie Manson kinda fucked his life up (even though it's no excuse).
But here's a question and I'm asking out of genuine curiosity: Did he know she was 13? This is a very flimsy argument but a lot of girls look older than they actually are. Don't shoot me. I'm just saying... -
The fruit of AICN spoils when a hot button topic is combined with one not so much.
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but many people lose family and friends to people everyday in terrible fashion. I could see RP losing it. I could see RP maybe trying to kill Manson. This incident though is just unexcuseable. He was out for a good time. I might have some respect for the man if he would have served out his time. Instead he bolts. I could even see him making the mistake in determining the age of the victim. Happened all the time then and occurs now. Yet he slipped her drugs and even when she said "no" he continued to violate her. No means NO!
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=CUm6TCbEK0g
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I'll give you that. I don't think any of us can defend the action itself. That would be just plain biased.
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gave to her?Did they both got high or did Roman just drugged her to get a free fuck?Can somebody clear that up?
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Yes! There are plans to make a movie of The Rum Diary, but it has been plagued with delays for over the last year. Hopefully it'll go ahead soon and not be forgotten. TRD was a great little story.
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If I was 13.
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Jan 27, 2008 7:55:59 PM CST
Quint thinks its ok everybody, he would have done the same thing
by futureman3000
And the victim thinks Polanski was treated unfairly, wow great idea lets let victims decide sentencing. I'm sure no victims will be scared or anything or have messed up thinking especially when child rape is involved. And child rapists shouldn't be killed according to Quint, thats hypocritical he says. Glad to see your morals working there, stick up for the criminals, defending child rapists.
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Just because this reviewer says we should see this movie first before deciding our opinion of an admitted child rapist doesn't mean we have to. ;Reasonable discussion; is not required. If it was your daughter and he admitted to having sex with her, would you want to sit down for a 'reasonable discussion'? If he was just some douchebag on To Catch a Predator, would you want to have a nice healthy debate about how he's not such a bad guy? There's a good reason people think this guy is an asshole. A very good reason, with a lot of very good facts. That doesn't make them kneejerkers.
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A great man once said "An eye for an eye and soon the world is blind".
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... how does ANYONE who commits rape get a raw deal?Please explain, Quint. Please explain your train of thought. And no, I don't like Hunter Thompson, either. I don't see the need to do copious amounts of drugs and drink copious amounts of alcohol he did.But my question remains... how does a rapist who fled prosecution, or ANYONE who has sex with 13 year old girls given a raw deal?Quint, I'm thinking, in this instance, your brain is disconnected and you're not thinking clearly.
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Get off your high horse, jerk. "eye for an eye and soon the whole world is blind" is crap.
More importantly- on what do you base that morality? On religion? Read Gen. 9:6 for God's endorsement of capital punishment. -
Enough to of this brainless accusatory bullshit at other TBers. No one thinks he didn't do a bad thing, if you do you're fucked up. Enough of this "I'd shoot him" or "fuck his great films" or stupid "if it was YOUR daughter"....IF IT was MY daughter, I'd still watch Chinatown.
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If you ever run into Polanksi and shoot him dead, tell you what, I'll buy you a coke. Keep us posted, tough guy.
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I seriously doubt if Polanksi raped your daughter you'd be popping up some pop corn and watching 9th Gate or Chinatown. If you did I'd seriously question your ability as a parent.
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Just thought I'd add something just as unsavory as this discussion.
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"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I could not have murdered Roman Polanski, because I was busy exchanging talkbacks with people on the internet, including some guy (or possibly girl) named 'systemsbroom'."
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Outfuckingstanding post. Very well written also. I completely agree with everything you said in response to Quint so I will not echo further. Quint, I don't think you're a bad guy either; your reviews are great! Keep 'em coming. Just a difference of opinion is all.
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Wow. A tape with Hunter and Oscar actually speaking to one another? Awesome. What were they talking about? Was it easy to make out what they were saying? I, like Quint, am a HUGE HST fan. I don't really agree with Jann Wenner's assertion either about Thompson losing his thunder during "Campaign Trail." Thompson's writing was always great. I think he just slowed down a little when he was older because he was in a lot of pain and in no mood to work. Just my opinion.
Sounds like a kickass documentary. -
He was banging a 14 year old in the 70's don't forget to stop listening to Zeppelin too.
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But seriously, this is a funny topic to tbring up. Because you have the die-hard church goers who use the teachings of the "Good Book" to attack people who have done wrong in an attempt to make their own f*cked up selves look better. Then you have the peds who will fight for one of their own, saying things like, "well, it was consentual" or "she wanted it". Then you have those who are peds, but they attack him so nobody knows the truth about them. And then there's me, an a$$ who has fun reading all of the crzy arguments you all have back and forth about how wrong or right this all is. I read comments from people who complain about a rape scene which they have never watched, but still complain and boycot to mess up a little girl's career which might have gone far. But, keep on posting because it is great entertainment to me.
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You guys going to argue with Windu?
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After all, weren't you the one who awarded a prize to a guy who submitted a racist joke (in which the n-word was used) to the "Rocky Balboa" contest?
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But if someone shot Polanski now *that* would be a loss to the world. What is your nine year old niece ever going to give back to the world? Sweet fuck all. Anyone ever looked at any of the Polanski message boards on IMDb? They are just crowded with all of your opinions repeated verbatim.
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there is a huge difference. One is wrong, but the other is even more wrong.
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Look at it this way...
Many cultures see nothing wrong with dating a 14yr old...hell most of Europe has an age of consent between 14-16. So from THAT point of view Roman did nothing wrong so long as she consented. Yet he is called a Monster..even by many in Hollywood.
Woody however took it one step further...he raised his young lover as a father would....in fact was lover to her mother WHILE he was seducing his erstwhile adopted daughter.
And THAT is simply creepy and wrong in ANY culture. Yet...Woody is forgiven and embraced.
Go figure...its Hollywood. -
so you're not able to articulate an argument without bringing Aaron Sorkin and Michael Moore into it?pretty pathetic, brother. your Ruch Limbaugh underwear is showing...
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again, people seem to ignore what I'm saying and just think I'm defending child rape. we have laws, a judge prosecuted Polanski, then they tried to prosecute him again.you can make the "all people who touch underage kids are devils and they should all be yada yada" and that's fine, you're entitled to that opinion. but if you're upset with the judicial system, take it out on them. I simply was trying to back up Quint, and ALL HE SAID was that you should see the doc before you made up your mind.those of you that have already made up your mind, and don't want to learn any more about the situation, fine, that's your right. but those with blinders on insulting those that simply want to learn more...well...you're in with the doofus that couldn't get through 2 posts without bringing Michael Moore and Aaron Sorkin into it. I guess we all have agendas. I'm just glad mine is, "let me learn all I can before I make up my mind" rather than "figure out how to blame all of this on liberals"
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never SEEN a polanski film, let alone paid for one.
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Go and watch a Polanski movie. They are having a retrospective here in February and the another theatre just showed four of his other films. Then come back and talk about a legacy that only extends as far as his family.
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I dont think you should even waste your time. People often times argue with a point they know nothing about. Most of the people who complained about that dakota fanning movie, knew nothing about it and have never seen it. people complained about the passion of the christ and have never seen it, this broad even went on fox and complained about this new game mass effect calling it porn and took back all she said, only because gamers spammed her book at amazon. People who are closed minded will not open them. I agree completely with you in that you should learn all you can before you make up your mind. Not saying that this polanski dude was right or wrong, I only know what I've heard from this site...and I have no interest in reading about him at wiki, an ok director and a possible pedophile, hmm...not interested.
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Big fan of the doc myself. Hell, I got the insanely expensive Taschen edition of Curse of Lono back home. Pick up Ralph Steadman's The Joke's Over about his time with Thompson. Big fun.
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to my knowledge there was no real evidence of his existence. Note that in "Where the Buffalo Roam" Gonzo is portrayed as a fiction of Thompson's head. Appearing only in private and when the latter man had just taken pills.
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I think we can all agree that the world would be better off with a Venture Brothers spinoff that deals with the silent revolution.
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I can count at least two ways I supported my argument in that last post. You. You just said stuff. You can say what you want but the way Polanski effects people and the continuation of his life work by its ongoing public exhibition is a testament to my point and one that contradicts your opinion (yes the difference between a point and an opinion is support). I especially love in your post how you felt the need to posture - "my young friend" - instead of actually providing any argument!
On another note this entire Polanski issue reminds me of that Resnais movie with the line "Why shouldn't I be fucked by a genius?" -
From Intermission.
Colm Meaney stands behind Colin Farrell in the mens room.
"Oh that's a nasty one Lehiff. Who gave you that?" Meaney asks.
"Your auld one. She poked me in the eye with her cock" Farrell replies.
Bum Bum Tish -
"to my knowledge there was no real evidence of his existence. Note that in "Where the Buffalo Roam" Gonzo is portrayed as a fiction of Thompson's head. Appearing only in private and when the latter man had just taken pills."
No. That whole "Dr. Gonzo was Duke/Hunter's imaginary friend" is only a pesky rumor that doesn't seem to want to go away. Oscar was a real civil rights attorney who Hunter first met at a bar called "The Daisy Duck" in the late '60s. "Fear and Loathing" was actually based on an actual trip the two took to Las Vegas.... It's kind of a long story. But Oscar had actually written a few entertaining books. Just google search "Oscar Zeta Acosta" Thompson wrote a great article about him in "The Great Shark Hunt," "The Banshee Screams for Buffalo Meat." Give the book a whirl. Some of Thompson's best work in my opinion.
I thought "Where the Buffalo Roam," was a fun, entertaining movie. Murray was great. But the script wasn't all that great. It's VERY loosely based off of two Thompson books and the "Banshee" article. Not a very reliable Thompson movie. -
I remember when Polanski threads came up there were often as many defenders of Polanski on this site as people who wanted his head. I'm not sure what has changed among the talkbackers, but I'm glad to see it. In the bad old days, people used to argue based on misinformation (that Polanski had consensual sex, among other gems) and with the idea that HE was the victim. All that said, I think Quint's take is not a bad one. I'd see this documentary for information on the legal aspects of the case. Botched trials incite me almost as much as rape does. In no way does one excuse the other though. I think Quint made that clear and I find myself in agreement. I speak as someone who has posted in every Polanski thread I've ever seen on this site and someone who has argued that Polanski should not get a dime for his work until he has served some sort of punishment for his crime. I won't pay to see a Polanski movie at the theaters or rent a Polanski DVD. I would, however, watch this documentary if it was airing and will if I get a chance. Kudos to the consensus in this thread, it's a refreshing change from the way things used to be.
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An organization which actively facilitates and condones the rape of children? Thousands upon thousands of children? Polanski is one guy who raped one girl. Yeah, he should go to jail or whatever, but what about the Church? They get a pass? Seems to me their crimes are far more monstrous. Not to mention ongoing.
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And I haven't seen a post yet arguing that a priest who rapes someone or a rock star who rapes someone should either. I think if this htread was called "Raping Priests" or "Raping Musicians" many of the responses would be the same. And on another note, it's a shame Hunter S. got rolled into this thread, because he's deserving of a seperate thread. Hunter was a harninger of the media of today, infortainment and editorials imbedded with journalism, for better or worse. The irony is that Hunter would probably cringe at the right-wing talk radio and FOX News style of gonzo journalism he was a forerunner of.
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If memory serves, every time the Raping Priests meme comes up on AICN, we get the usual ultrarightwing nutjob fundies claiming that its really all apart of some "homosexual media conspiracy" to undermine the glory of the Church.
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According to Polanski he entered the girl once, and did not rape her behind. Still a stupid thing to do but he spent time in prison, just not long enough.
Still like his films and I don't think he preys on children. -
Dahmer: The Misunderstood Cannibal.
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watch more than a snippet of the Oscars here or there. No wonder he wasn't invited back. Too bad, cause Rock tells it like it is, and he was FUNNY. Where's Jude Law with the cupcakes?
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Will you do a new review of Stephen Kings new book "Duma Key"? I just picked it up yesterday and I didn't know if you got a chance to get it yet or not.
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I mean, it only lasts a few minutes, right?
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When the world is full of sex starved MILFs who know what they hell they are doing in bed?
Say no to 13 years, yes to MILFs. That is all.
Blassy, out. -
maybe the court system was 'unfair' to him, but at the same time it boils down to rape. We shouldn't just let the guy off the hook because he makes good movies. You wouldnt think highly of him if he was just an average person.
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we should see Polanski in any different light than the losers that show up on those Dateline "to catch a predator" specials. Sure the guy is a gifted filmmaker, but one of the guys that showed up on Dateline was a doctor, he's probably done more good in the world than Polanski, but so what, he was a man in his 40s that sought out sex with a young teenage girl, the fact that he's helped people in his position as a doctor doesn't cancel out his crime.
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Its RAPETASTIC
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It was statutory rape and it was consensual. The girl later recanted he testimony to the contrary. 13's a bit young, but he's not a monster. That makes pretty much every rock star from the 60's and 70's a monster.
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Polanski used his position as an artist to gain access to the young girl. His crimes are directly linked to his art. Ergo, you cannot hate the artist and love the art as one might be able to with Davis or even Bukowski.
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if Bill Clinton showed up on one of the Dateline shows. Would the secret service get into a shoot out with the police?
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that's a bit of a stretch there. I heard he got her all drunk and gave her 'ludes beforehand. No girl at 13 is 'adult' enough for anyone, esp not a 44 year old man. She probably just had her first period not long before that. I'd say anyone who has sex with an underage girl like that is pretty deplorable.
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as long as you like. Next up AICN will review the new movie screenplay by Woody Allen, directed by Polanski, starring Michael Jackson, wrap party catered by Jeffrey Dahmer.
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He's a child molester for Heaven's sake. Question: If he wasn't Roman Polanski would any of you be defending him?
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the cops are waiting outside your house right now, you are free to leave at any time
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shitty fucken' keyboard.
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No shit. My 'rents are both journalists and I'm named Hunter...go figure.
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that's awesome man. my first name is Adam and Eve's third child, and my middle name is out of E.T.
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He never even lived in the same house. He never had anything to do with raising her. He never adopted her. Still a bit weird, but not as creepy.
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This thread is all over the place. We should set the record straight.
Is Mr. Polanski a talent film maker? Absolutely. Was the judge probably biased in the case? Sure. The law actually allows judges to decide what punishment fits the crime.
Did Polanski have sex with a 13 year old girl? No. He didn't.
He drugged and RAPED a 13 year old girl.
Please stop saying that they had sex. They didn't have sex. He RAPED her.
Try this - remember yourself when you 13. Now think about someone drugging you, and raping you up the a$$ while you said "no". Go on - picture it.
Now imagine someone comes along and says, "Geeze, the judge was kinda hard on that guy."
I think my response would be... "Really? You should talk to MY A$$!" -
Like the man says; "What you will not find here is commentary, editorials, analysis, opinion, or hearsay. If that's what you are looking for, go find a newsgroup. If you want the truth, here it is."
http://tinyurl.com/yupw4n
Quoted for mother fucking truth... -
Here's the scoop on Victor (Take off your shirts!)Salva, 2 pages of fun...
Page 1: http://tinyurl.com/yr66ud
Page 2: http://tinyurl.com/2zgk3o -
Also, from what I understand, the girl lied about her age (while also looking MUCH older) and the sex was consentual. Sure, he fucked up, but I would hardly call him a monster. Then again, there are so many myths on both sides of this story that it's pretty much impossible to have a reasonable conversation about it.
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from the poor guy Victor Salva raped. "Support the Victim, not the Victimizer." Wow. Does that put any of this into perspective for you?
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if the sex was consentual then why hasn't Polanski come back to country and if the victim is willing to testify for him why is he so afraid to pay his dues. We shouldn't back the guy up. He ran away, yes maybe things got overly fucked in court, I can understand that, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure the girl was 13 and everything I've heard was that he raped her, so he needs to pay up for his actions
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Saw the Polanski film at Sundance. The film was very well made and objective. I didn't know the little perv got such a royal hosing from the Cal. legal system. Good to see Phil Vanater again! I'm a lawyer (insert joke here) and the judge and the senior d.a., not Gunson who was handling the case are soley responsible for the fiasco. I agree that the little twerp got off lightly but he did everything he was asked to do until the judge changed the rules mid-stream because he wanted the publicity. If you can't rely on the word of a crooked judge and the mormon prosecutor, who can you trust?
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Do you practice in California? Ever gotten in front of Judge Ito?
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The fact that they have shown a total of ten of his past films locally - Australia - over the last six months is a fact. That is interest in someone and a legacy. It has been forty years since some of those movies were made and they are still showing! What part of that is my opinion?
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Where's all the hatred for that guy? He banged countless 13 year olds, and admitted it. Who's going to hunt his ass down? Fucking haters, focusing on Polanski while listening to Double Live Gonzo.
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"What is your nine year old niece ever going to give back to the world? Sweet fuck all."Oh, holy shit. In all of TB, I never believed such thought of this stripe imaginable. Actually imaginable.So quickly are you to judge that the figurative "she" you describe is inevitably incapable of ever achieving the same or greater than Roman Polanski speaks much more about you than that which you post.You, young ball licker -- Would that I could enjoy your completely devoid and blissfully detached perspective on society.It is quite brief, so lap it up while you can.
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Jan 28, 2008 6:43:57 PM CST
rudimus maximus, re: "I agree that the little twerp got off ligh
by immortal_fish
"I agree that the little twerp got off lightly but he did everything he was asked to do until the judge changed the rules mid-stream because he wanted the publicity."Again, this is not about Polanski as much as it is with an overly lenient judicial system. We need more judges that adhere to a strict interpretation of the law, not less.
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Exactly.
I do not think it is right to have sex with a 13 year old and I don't think the age of consent should be 13, but the guy guy should not be demonized for having sex with a 13 year old. Like I said, this country is too puritanical. -
Even if he won in court and proved the sex was actually consensual, it would not be legally consensual and statutory rape laws can be fairly bad , especially if the girl is under 14.
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"So quickly are you to judge that the figurative "she" you describe is inevitably incapable of ever achieving the same or greater than Roman Polanski speaks much more about you than that which you post."
And what does it say? "You, young ball licker -- Would that I could enjoy your completely devoid and blissfully detached perspective on society." Why? "It is quite brief, so lap it up while you can." What is brief? Lap what up? I am certainly going to that Polanski retrospective if that is what you mean. You people might notice that I don't just say stuff. I say stuff and then I give reasons, or, I say stuff that actually means something. You have alluded to a lot in what you are saying to me but you haven't actually said anything. Well apart from the posturing which among the clever empty words has actually formed the spine of your argument in that it was the only ACTUAL thing you said that had any real meaning. -
No one has any comment on HST via The Venture Brothers? This is suppose to be a geek website and I am losing my desire to beat up this TB population.
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Jan 29, 2008 3:07:51 AM CST
"It’s difficult to stand fully behind Polanski after he had sex
by eveelcapitalist
If it were simply that, I would have less of a problem. Shit, some kids are like that. Sure, it would be easy to say Polanski was tempted and couldn't keep his pants on but HE FUCKING DRUGGED AND RAPED THE GIRL!!!!!!!!!!! IT WAS NOT SIMPLE SEX, IT WAS A FUCKING RAPE!!!!!!!!!
Can ya see why some people get disgusted by this case? Polanski was never the victim, no matter what he or the guy who's PAID to defend him says, so stop treating him like one. He's a fucking sick piece of shit who raped a little girl and fled from justice.
Difficult to stand behind him? Jesus Holy Harold Christ on a fucking pogo stick what does it take to get a man condemned morally here? Fucking vote Republican? Christ almighty, someone get evidence that Polanski is an Iraq War supporting Bush loving Republican Party funding right-winger, that oughtta change some fucking opinions. -
Jan 29, 2008 8:59:44 AM CST
RE: "It’s difficult to stand fully behind Polanski after he had
by john_kipling
BWAH HA HA HAHAHAHA!!!!1pie
Oh snap.
Brilliant post. -
Polanski didn't plead to rape; it's the reason he can't be extradited. He plead to a lesser charge because the prosecutor knew he had a poor case on rape. The girl's mother wouldn't let the kid testify and that was that. She said it was because she didn't want to put the kid through it but I don't believe it. The whole meeting was set up to shoot nude photos alone with this guy and there were things in both her and her daughter's past that were very wierd. Gunson really would not have done well on the rape charge.
The plea was arranged by agreement by both counsel and the judge. The charge he plead to had not led to any jail time for anyone so charged in the few years preceeding Polanski's case. A senior prosecutor, not Gunson, goaded the Judge into constantly shifting the rules. This is wildly inappropriate conduct. You cannot speak to a presiding judge about a pending case without both parties present or represented. It was this jackass and the crappy judge that screwed everything up.
As to whether he should have gotten more, if this were to happen today, he would get 10 years. No doubt about it. But the point here was that the judge was in it for himself and totally screwed the pooch on the whole case. -
I love Hunter Thompson (obviously) and thought the Venture Brothers bit was great. I also loved their Bowie and Iggy as well. They do great takes on people and characters.
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Yeah, they do that bullshit in Where The Buffalo Roam where it's hinted that Dr. Gonzo is imaginary and Gilliam paints a similar picture in Fear and Loathing in some bits. I alway just assumed that Oscar Acosta was real but Hunter and was hallucinating him as an alter ego in some bits.
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I was facing a crisis of faith there
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