Movie News

Rav has seen WHERE IN THE WORLD IS OSAMA BIN LADEN and...

Published at: Jan. 22, 2008, 1:52 a.m. CST by quint

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. Rav got to see the premiere of the movie tonight and he's spent rest of the night telling me I need to avoid seeing this movie tomorrow at the press screening... yeah, he's a fan. Read his incredibly pissed off review below! Beware of spoilers!

I just came from the World Premiere of the Spurlock Osama movie…SPOILERS ALERT…HE DOESN’T EVEN TRY HARD TO LOOK FOR BIN LADEN! Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden – Written, Directed, Produced, and Starring Morgan Spurlock and his girlfriend. I’ll just go ahead and get it over with. This movie is fucking retarded. Maybe it would feel less retarded if it wasn’t for all those rumors of him actually finding and interviewing Bin Laden. Or maybe it would come off less stupid if he had just titled it “Super Size Me 2: Middle East Vacation” cause that is more accurate as to what it really is. This is not a film about finding Osama Bin Laden or at the very least debunking the rumors of where he isn’t. The films premise is that Morgan Spurlocks girlfriend is about to have a baby so he talks to camera about how he has been inspired by action movies and wants to make the world a better place for his kid by finding Osama Bin Laden. So of course the next person he goes to visit is that same general practitioner who gives him some shots and totally makes a big deal about the side effects for every one. Next he goes to a survival guy to teach him how to survive in the middle east, but really is a montage for Spurlock to exercise a lot and do goofy shit with a plastic gun. Then the rest of the movie is Spurlock going to Pakistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Afghanistan, there he just finds random local people off the street and asks them “What do you think about America?” and “Do you know where Osama Bin Laden is?” Of course this is interspersed with Morgan giving us an elementary school lesson on each of the cultures in the respective countries as well as baby updates from his girlfriend in the USA. He gives up the whole thing after seeing a sign that says “Foreigners are not allowed in this area.” (I wish I was kidding) That’s it. That’s the whole movie, well except for gratuitous ego animation and a sequence where Spurlock visits a Mcdonalds in Saudi Arabia. Oh and at the end he decides to show us a very graphic clip of his girlfriend giving birth to their baby. None of the interviews Spurlock conducts ever feel like he’s actually looking for Bin Laden or that he even cares about finding him, they are more or less opportunities for him to sneak in stupid jokes. Which may have been fine if the jokes were ever actually entertaining or felt appropriate. In the Q&A after the film he made mention of being followed by several government agencies during the making of the film, but none of that is included in the film, which is a shame because it may have had a chance at being more interesting than 99% of the stuff included in the actual film. At one point during the film he tries to pull a Michael Moore by showing up at one of the Bin Laden family companies asking for an interview, but it is so shoddily filmed as its mostly just Spurlock walking up to a building and talking about asking the guard if he knew where Bin Laden was (Yes, its that lazy). Basically everything that’s been written about the movie in the past month from the /film piece to the sneak review the other day is completely true. The video game sequence where spurlock compares himself to Orson Welles and Woody Allen is very much in there and goes on for about 10 minutes too long. He even begins it with a tasteless rap montage of many cartoon Bin Ladens break dancing. All in all I can’t see any reason for anyone to ever want to watch this movie. It’s just one big 98 minute Morgan Spurlock ego-fart. That said the material is ripe for an actual documentary filmmaker to take it on, I’d love to see someone elses take on this that actually wanted to make a film about finding Osama Bin Laden. This film is very much in the running for worst of the festival. Rav Ravkill@msn.com


Readers Talkback

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  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2 a.m. CST

    First?

    by GeekyAnimeNerd79Beyotch

    Hrmmm?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2 a.m. CST

    dune coons

    by Fat and Curious

    it feels so good

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:01 a.m. CST

    goddamnit you cunt

    by Fat and Curious

    I was so close

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:02 a.m. CST

    Yeah, this does...

    by GeekyAnimeNerd79Beyotch

    ... sound lazily made. I might go watch it just to see his wife's cooter, though. Question of the day: Is a cooter hot while a baby is sticking out of it?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Geeky...

    by Mezzanine

    Answer: NO.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:20 a.m. CST

    omg...

    by darrenspool

    I knew that Spurlock guy was a total loser, but this sounds like he's perhaps the biggest cunt ever.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:20 a.m. CST

    Yeah, sounds pretty bad.

    by TattooedBillionaire

    I liked Super Size Me, though, so there's a good chance I'll still check this one out.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:21 a.m. CST

    Cooter with a baby sticking out?

    by darrenspool

    Why would you find that sexy?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:23 a.m. CST

    RE: Why would you find that sexy?

    by GeekyAnimeNerd79Beyotch

    I could make so many horrible jokes but I'll just answer truthfully: I don't find it sexy at all. ;-)

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:23 a.m. CST

    How easy is it to get a fat chick into bed?

    by MelvintheMopBoy

    Piece of cake.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:26 a.m. CST

    Not Terribly Surprised

    by FatherMcGruderKicksAssForTheLord

    I thought SuperSize Me boiled down to man eats mostly McDonald's, gets fat & unhealthy ... what a fuckin' news flash! <p> I wonder if, after this thing goes off with a pop & a fizzle at Sundance, The Weinstein's will still bother running it nationwide. <p> Does this count as another 'net-hype-flop?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:30 a.m. CST

    This sounds great!!

    by Giant Ape Balls

    Truely one of the most horrendous sounding ideas I've heard in a long time. What kind of idiot travels about asking people what they think of America and asking Arabs where Osama Bin Laden is? His ignorance is astounding!!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Not surprised either

    by SpencerTrilby

    the whole hype was a sad joke, and it seems it fits the movie. It doesn't change the fact that Super-size me was excellent, but it really went to Spurlock's head. Sad.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:36 a.m. CST

    Sounds like a reverse Borat.

    by skywalkerfamily

    Is it sexy time.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:38 a.m. CST

    So what do you think of America?

    by theycallmemrglass

    Thats what he would probably have asked Osama, if he did by some freaky chance find him.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:41 a.m. CST

    Glad to hear it's a failure.

    by silentbobfan

    I thought he was a douche in Super Size Me so this isn't surprising. Eating McDonald's for a month straight makes you sick. Fuckadoodledo, any one with half a brain would know that. I hope this film puts an end to this guy.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Surely you found Bin Laden!

    by The Dum Guy

    I didn't and don't call me Shirley...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3 a.m. CST

    Instead Of Spurlock...

    by buster00

    ...we should have sent Turok. Now HE would've gotten some answers, man.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:02 a.m. CST

    Harry is an Idiot.

    by Sakurai

    One of the worst moments in the history of AICN is when Harry posted that original story about this movie and actually considered that the rumors could be true. I was so sickened at such ignorance that I couldnt even post on the talkback saying how stupid it all was. I just threw my hands up into the air and said, "forget it, this is beyond any level of foolishness than I can suffer." Curse Moriarty's well crafted reviews for making me come back to this site.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:11 a.m. CST

    More important: Burger King stopped selling the Whopper!

    by Heckles

    Go Spurlock, go, go, go! Douchebag director makes douchebag movie. Do the math.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:19 a.m. CST

    Here's....

    by The Dum Guy

    ...another look at how some see Spulock's genius,<br><br>http://tinyurl.com/2sdj5g<br><br>...just go to 'Whiskey'.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:31 a.m. CST

    ^remove space^

    by The Dum Guy

    http://tinyurl.com/2sdj5g<br><br>I don't know how those appear?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:32 a.m. CST

    Next Documentary:

    by FatherMcGruderKicksAssForTheLord

    "Needle In A Haystack" <p> Did he find it? Watch as Morgan rolls up his sleeves and gets "really dusty"! Watch as his wife watches him! Listen to his doctor hyperbolize! <p> One thing's certain: if his t-shirt rides up, Morgan's asscrack will certainly be itchy from all that chaff! <p> Sundance '09!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:40 a.m. CST

    Sakurai

    by HEADGEEK

    I was just reacting to what the mainstream media was reporting. That the Weinstein's paid $25million based on a few minutes of footage - and that Spurlock's camera man said they had "The Holy Grail" - with a film titled what this film was titled - That the film is a puff masturbation piece using the spector of Osama to attract attention is frankly unforgivable. Morgan Spurlock is clown shoes.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4 a.m. CST

    I don't remember seeing that story in mainstream media...

    by Kirbymanly

    ...I read about it first here. And I go to all of the major news websites.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:08 a.m. CST

    Bin Laden is dead. Has been for some time.

    by ELGordo

    So this documentary doesn't talk about that. Shameful. Benazir Bhutto talks mentions it in this interview with David Frost. <P> Check it out. http://tinyurl.com/33ejz4 It's right after the 6 minute mark.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:18 a.m. CST

    Eating Mcdonals Everyday...

    by Redfive!

    Is like smoking cigarettes,OF COARSE ITS NOT GOOD FOR YOU.Its been public knowledge for what 20-30 years that fast food is bad and if you eat it all the time YOU WILL GET FAT...Just like lung cancer from smoking,THIS DUDES A HACK.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:18 a.m. CST

    wait, what did the Weinsteins pay for then?

    by BadMrWonka

    strange that they would pay for something that was so clearly a disappointment. $25 million is a lot to pay for something that won't do that well on DVD (if it's as boring as it seems to be).<p>anyone else think something's fishy?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:26 a.m. CST

    you idiots must never have SEEN Supersize Me

    by BadMrWonka

    of course he knew fast food would be bad for him. the doctors told him, and he already knew it. the point was not just that eating a lot of fast food would be bad for you, but what specifically it did to you. <p>do you all REMEMBER that the doctors were baffled in the way that his body was reacting, that they were SURPRISED not just that he gained wait, but had significant liver damage, etc.?<p>and a HUGE part of the film was his condemnation of the food programs in our public schools, and how woefully unhealthy they are, with pizza and hamburgers and fried crap. THAT WAS IMPORTANT!!<p>you're all just going for the cheap jab, calling him a hack. that movie was important, and it actually did some good in the world. "oh, mcdonalds makes you fat, derr derrr" shut. the. fuck. up.<p>if this movie is a big fat disappointment, then so be it, and let him have it. but don't give us all a revisionist history of Supersize Me, because you are too dumb to remember what actually happened in it. or too simple-minded to read between the lines and think about issues more deeply than punchlines and whatever garbage you're being fed.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:28 a.m. CST

    gained wait? blech.

    by BadMrWonka

    I meant weight, of course.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:52 a.m. CST

    Whoahahh - Are you not all over-reacting based on one review?

    by darth_billy

    Let's see what it's really like shall we? I've never been dissapointed with any of the 30 days episodes, which have always taught me a lot about the world. And besides, isn't it a hypothetical question? Where is Osama Bin Ladin?... as in a large chunk of America seems to think that the Middle East is full of Osama Bin types.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 5:38 a.m. CST

    rav is ronald mcdonald!

    by ironic_name

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 5:43 a.m. CST

    It does beg the question

    by Lost Jarv

    what exactly was the money stumped up for. <p>And no, Mr. Spurlock, no-one outside of your immediate family and friends wants to see your birth video. <p>Why would you show this?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 5:52 a.m. CST

    doesnt sound positive

    by palewook

    thats for certain

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6 a.m. CST

    Maybe they left the footage out of Sundance...

    by OBSD

    ....yeah, probably not. Still, it would be interesting if they purposefully left footage of him meeting Bin Laden out until the movie actually hit theaters. It's not gonna happen, but it would be a cool "fuck you" to the bloated Sundance crowd. Even if they were that smart and sneaky, the rest of this film still looks like garbage.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:02 a.m. CST

    Council for the defense

    by Giant Ape Balls

    What the fast food companies were claiming was that there food was nutritious and reasonably heathly. He showed through his experiment that it was far from it.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:05 a.m. CST

    Missing the point it sounds like...

    by Scapulawings

    Wow, you mean he actually didn't find Osama Bin Laden? Way to fall for the hype guys. You really feel the need to attack someone for NOT trying to track down the world's most wanted terrorist all by himself because some movie biz hype told you he might? Yeah, that's on you. Plus of all the criticism I keep hearing about the movie being juvenile, does anyone on this site care that the review here is completely juvenile itself? "Fucking retarded... totally a big deal." How old are you people? It really just seems like you're taking it out on the movie because the hype fooled you. Grow up. I'm tired how easy it is for people around here to WANT to piss on people. What a bunch of yap...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:11 a.m. CST

    and also...

    by Scapulawings

    "So of course the next person he goes to visit is that same general practitioner who gives him some shots and totally makes a big deal about the side effects for every one." That's an absolutely hilarious line to put in a review. It's obvious that you're coming from a place where you outright WANT to hate the movie. That's a terrible way to review... not to mention that in the third paragraph Rav admits that the rumors of all things changed how he felt about the film. Pretty ridiculous.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:17 a.m. CST

    For a real doc on the roots of al-Qaeda

    by Dodgy

    Look this up, for free download: http://www.wanttoknow.info/powerofnightmares#view Some parts are scarily hilarious...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:20 a.m. CST

    "HE DOESN'T EVEN TRY HARD TO LOOK FOR BIN LADEN"

    by redfist

    "HE DOESN'T EVEN TRY HARD TO LOOK FOR BIN LADEN" by Mr Spork...... I pissed my pants reading that, thanx!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Why do people who make a successful documentary get fat heads?

    by Alice Cooper Stalker

    Why do people who make one successful documentary get fat heads and do stupdid stuff? I'm putting Michael Moore in here. I really liked Roger & Me. I've hated everything he's done since.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:56 a.m. CST

    Of course an apologist might say

    by seppukudkurosawa

    that the title could be read more along the lines of what kind of climate and country birthed a guy like that. "Where's his head at?" But then, I'm not an apologist, so I'd call bullshit to that.<p> </p>Also, Morgan Spurlock's responsible for the worst title I've heard in years with his other documentary, "What Would Jesus Buy?"

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:06 a.m. CST

    Spurlock is a cock

    by classyfredblassy

    I am pretty sure if you also ate nothing but Oat Bran and Prune juice for a month, you'd have some health problems there too. When is that movie coming, you lying sac of cock.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:14 a.m. CST

    Um....

    by MJohnson

    So, who is writing reviews for this site now? High school students? Can anyone give me a good reason why I should in any way consider a film review containing the phrase "fucking retarded" one to actually pay attention to, let alone dictate how I should feel about a film I haven't seen yet? I mean, totally, this review is, like, way convincing. Maybe we should just do away with the internet altogether, since it condones and encourages "ego-farts" like complete morons getting to see themselves in print online whenever they have some goddamned self-important piece of shite opinion such as this one.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:23 a.m. CST

    I disagree, BadMrWonka.

    by Nice Marmot

    Nobody saw Super Size Me and suddenly found out fast food was unhealthy and quit eating it. Anybody that eats fast food at least once a day is ignorant and will most likely never see Super Size Me. And even the super ignorant don't eat fast food for every meal. It's not just a cheap jab at Spurlock. His whole film was becoming a lab rat for shock value. I'll give him some credit though, that piece he did on TV, might have been on Oprah, where he and his wife tried to live on minimum wage was interesting.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:42 a.m. CST

    Yay, Rav is ACTUALLY working

    by Vamp-AICNchat

    !!!!!!!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:44 a.m. CST

    I can't stand Spurlock's missus

    by Vamp-AICNchat

    The boney biting bitch!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:47 a.m. CST

    Would the world be a safer place if Bin Laden was caught?

    by Vamp-AICNchat

    Probably not. Can you imagine all those Jihadist assholes if their 'leader' was caught! Those Jihadist should watch CHARLIE WILSON'S WAR. They also have a short memory when NATO helped the Muslims in the Kasova ethnic cleansing war in 1999.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:56 a.m. CST

    Not Again with the Jihadists......

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    As a Muslim I find it morbidly amusing how certain elements of the West make up words that do not exist in the Islamic lexicon such as Jihadist, Islamofacist, Extremist, Fundamentalist, and then try to argue against what brand of Islam is acceptable. Please stop learning about Islam from CNN and Fox. Go to a library and check out some reputable sources on the subject matter instead of sprouting off crap like Vamp...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 7:56 a.m. CST

    What exactly...

    by Tourist

    ...Is wrong with the term "Fucking retarded"? Curse words are like seasoning. You elitist faggot, you.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:02 a.m. CST

    As a muslim...

    by Tourist

    ...You advise is unwanted, because you are a massive fail. Total fail. You believe in a fairy in the clouds. You might want to head to a library and check out some reputable sources on physics or biology or history and stop learning about man and nature from some dick in a towel.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:04 a.m. CST

    As a Atheist...

    by Vamp-AICNchat

    ...I don't believe in fairytales.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:05 a.m. CST

    Massive Fail?

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    What exactly is that? Now I am speaking as an English teacher with a graduate degree in the subject... :)

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:06 a.m. CST

    And All the Respect for You and Your Beliefs:)

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    It is too bad that in many cases those that claim to be progessive cannot except others having believes contrary to their own...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:09 a.m. CST

    And All the Respect for You and Your Beliefs:)

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    It is too bad that in many cases those that claim to be progessive cannot accept others having believes contrary to their own...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:15 a.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by Vamp-AICNchat

    ...I have no problem about peoples beliefs but mostly all wars are caused by it. IN MY OPINION, just imagine living 500-5000 years back and you saw a Tsunami, thunder and lightning, solar eclipse, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes etc, you would be excused for thinking that there was a God or something like that - I think some of these phenonema are the cause of religions.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:22 a.m. CST

    Fair Enough

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I can respect that mate.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:48 a.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks

    by TheBloop

    Here in the west we don't accept the term "infidel" but the Jihad Johnies sure use it alot. But I guess if we don't use those terms you say don't exist "Islamic lexicon" we won't have to be treated to videos of beheadings, women being stoned to death, or people shot over a cartoon. Thanks for clearing that up.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 8:59 a.m. CST

    Darfur

    by Lost Jarv

    that's because 2 of those words (Extremist and Fundamentalist) are English words that apply to, erm, extremists and fundamentalists of any religion. The other 2 are combination words created by spin doctors

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 9:04 a.m. CST

    "Morgan Spurlock is clown shoes."

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Ha! You heard it here first, folks!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 9:31 a.m. CST

    Correct conspiracy

    by TheBloop

    There are still some Danish Cartoonists in hiding. How fucking stupid is that.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 9:36 a.m. CST

    www.aint-it-liberal-propaganda.com

    by uss cygnus

    I wonder, Morgan, will you be laughing the next time Al-Qaeda attacks this country? Will it be funny if we haven't caught Bin Laden by then? Traitor.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 9:38 a.m. CST

    why exactly is he a traitor?

    by Lost Jarv

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Here's what Harry had to say in Dec. about the doc...

    by IAmJack'sUserID

    Harry here... I don't know how likely this is... and with the news breaking today - there's probably a good chance that Morgan Spurlock is on his way to Gitmo where he will not be tortured for days and days until he gives them every detail of this joke or stunning accomplishment. If he did find Osama... if he did interview with him - then this would be the single most embarrassing failure of the entire Bush Administration... when the McDonald's Diet guy can find Osama... and the entire joint world intelligence forces can't... then there's something extremely fucked up. Then again... it could be a horrifying joke... which would end Morgan's career... But frankly - if he did get it - they shouldn't screen at Sundance. They should PAY-PER-VIEW the damn thing after a massive marketing campaign... cuz the second that footage gets out - and the Weinstein company in the past year has had a horrible series of Internet Pre-Release leaks of entire films - and this would be huge, for the short time that it would be available exclusively in their control. What do you people think about WHERE IN THE WORLD IS OSAMA bin LADEN? ------ I've Been checking this out and allegedly the Weinstein's have dropped 25 million on Spurlock for the movie based on these 15 minutes alone. Now if this is true then it would be the MOTHER of all Documentaries and will have done what the ENTIRE U.S. Goverment couldn't or wouldn't do. There is some speculation about this all being a cocktease but promising something this big and shafting people is like picking up Heather Graham at a bar, looking the way she did in Anger Management, getting her home and finding out she has a cock.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Thanks for the warning...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...but I had already realized that this film would be propaganda. I just didn't think that it would be pro-Morgan Spurlock propaganda!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Spurlock's next film:

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    "In Search of the Lost Ark" -- filmed while he goes through a difficult breakup with aforementioned girlfriend. At the end, there is a disturbing nervous breakdown. *Sigh. What did anyone ever see in this guy, anyway? He made a film about the health disadvantages of McDonalds' fast food that everyone in the world with an IQ of 79 or higher understood anyway. Spurlock is terribly overrated!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Sounds brilliant!

    by kikuchiyoboy

    The funny thing is what seemd more interesting on this whole page was the TB'r who said that Burger King was no longer selling the whopper. <br> <br> Man with a camera. It's like Blog The Movie!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Spurlock now DESERVES to go to Gitmo...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...because coercing individuals to watch this film is the equivalent to TERRORISTIC TORTURE and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! ... ... ... For all of his liberal hatred for corporate greed and governmental commercialism, I think that this dud needs a dose of WAKE ME UP slaps in order to get his mind out of Nancy Pelosi's playbook. I wonder if he was voted "Most Likely to Believe Wild Conspiracy Theories Presented by the Far Left" in his high school yearbook. So far, so bad.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Rambo could find bin ladin.

    by Pipple

    Rambo could end the war in iraq right now if he wanted to. And what the hell are all the badass green berets doing these days anyway?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Pipple...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    You asked, "And what the hell are all the badass green berets doing these days anyway?" They are dying for the country while liberal-extremist leaders like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid question their need. Even when things are going well, those "leaders" call the military's effort a "failure." Is there still any question as to why few military men ever vote for the left?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Infidels is a Western term

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    How you ever heard a Muslim talk about infidels? Nope. They talk about non-believers, as EVERY RELIGION DOES. This infidel business is also a Western trope used in Hollywood in classics such as True Lies and Delta Force et al.. Granted, this is not to say that there are not nut jobs posing as Muslims, but some differentiation would be appreciated. When the IDF butcher Palestinians, we news media does not label them as radical Jews. Yet, a prick who happens to be a Muslim is labeled as a Muslim first rather than an individual criminal.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 11:38 a.m. CST

    "Kafir" is the Islamic term.

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    Is that differentiation enough for you, DarfurOnTheRocks?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 11:51 a.m. CST

    I always thought it was Afrikaans

    by Lost Jarv

    well, well ,well. You learn a new thing every day.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 11:51 a.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 11:56 a.m. CST

    i didnt fight in korea to come home

    by Lloyd Bonafide the Korean War Veteran

    and see documentaries about finding nothing and mcdonalds!!!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 12:03 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    No one is arguing that there are many good people in Islam. And of course, there are violent extremists in every religion (including Christianity). However, there is an astonishing percentage of the Muslim population who either believe in violence as a means to justify an end OR those who embrace those (by "understanding their rationale") who use violence as a means to justify an end. A gallup poll taken less than four months after 9/11 showed that approximately 30% of international Muslims felt that the acts of 9/11 could possibly be justifiable. This is a stark contrast with how mainstream Christians, Jews or Hindus (etc...) view violent acts by supposed members of their faith. Why? The mainstream Christian faith teaches that violence is NEVER an option (even though a very, very small segment of supposed Christian cults do induce violence), as does Hinduism, Judaism, etc... This was the basis for "non-violent resistance" as practiced by men like Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr and (or course) Jesus Christ. In Christianity, a nonbeliever is treated with great respect to the point of even servants being instructed to obey their unbelieving masters as if they were working for the Lord. In Islam, non-Muslims are forced to pay a large tax JUST TO LIVE in Muslim lands! There is an undertone of violence that is "accepted" within "mainstream" mosques in Islam. There is a reformation that must take place in which the great majority of Muslims must view violence through the eyes of the innocence. There is no excuse for violence, murder or harming innocent. Even revenge or occupation is not a good excuse. If Palestinians could demonstrate that they are willing to engage in peace talks WITHOUT embracing suicide bombers and stone throwing masses, then perhaps something could be done to help them accomplish their goals in the Middle East. Until then, the rest of the "Kafir" (infidels) will view their situation as being part of self-induced hopelessness. Islam is a religion of peace, even though the followers are prone to accepting violence. If that acceptance or embrace of the rationale behind violence could somehow change, then perhaps something good could be accomplished.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 12:19 p.m. CST

    ccchhhrrriiisssm

    by hillingdon

    Thank you... Someone with a bit of knowledge and sense.... Some of shit I read on this site esp towards people of colour...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 12:33 p.m. CST

    how bad does it have to be to get THAT review on AICN?

    by fireclown

    And for a film with such anti-bush potential, too.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Anchorite, please shut up

    by bushsux

    Nothing you advocate works. The war in Iraq is a disaster, our economy is going into a recession and the Bin-Ladens and Bushes are laughing all the way to the bank while right-wing ditto heads like you keep busy at it in their mommy's basement. You are a stupid, silly man and should seriously consider giving Dr. Kevorkian a call.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Rambo finds Bin Laden

    by BurgerKing

    In his new film. Beats McDonalds guy to the punch.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 12:56 p.m. CST

    bushsux...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    Is that you Nancy Pelosi? Harry Reid? Howard Dean? You are the only ones who spoon feeds such hatred toward the media about the war in Iraq. Even when things are going well, you still try to spend it all as a "lost cause." Have you EVER received a single vote from a man in uniform (other than those who play "dress up" like the band members from QUEEN)? I hope that you don't believe all of those outrageous "conspiracy theories" about this war, 9/11 or the Bush Administration. The HATE BUSH rhetoric is getting very old. Such bigotry is based upon rhetoric that is based upon rumor that is based upon gossip that is based upon talking points fed to the media and 527 groups who simply want to spread HATE. Give it a rest, why don't ya?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:06 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks, shouldn't you blame:

    by TheBloop

    The pricks who kill and rape and such who claim to do so in the name of Islam? Instead of the people reacting to what they see and hear? Seems to me your problem should be more with them than any one else. And please don't try to push it away as few nutjobs held up in cave. That kind of reality warping is just going to re-enforce the stereotypes you are fighting against.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:08 p.m. CST

    Islam posits itself as a complete system of life

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    this idea entails that there are certain conditions where a Muslim is able to take up arms. For example if a foreign power is attempting to subject Muslims to their ideology then they can fight back. Your examples of the peacefulness of other religions is a tad misleading because modern Western thought has separated religion from affairs of the state. What has this done? This has allowed GW Bush to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, while still being considered a good Christian by many in the Bible belt. This has allowed the US to sit by and watch Israel usurp Palestine land AND give the Israeli government loans and weapons... Also I want to underline that yes KAFIR is a arabic word...... but it means NON-BELIEVER, not infidel. History also shows that the tax that is being referred was a token tax, not generally an exorbitant amount of money as generally believed. Palestinians are a disparate people. What would you do when ALL political recourse has failed? Does Israel follow the numerous UN Resolutions? Why is the peaceful Israel continuing to build settlements in the West Bank? The solution is simple: Give them back their land...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:08 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks, what is Dhimmitude?

    by TheBloop

    Please explain, thanks.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Give them back their land...

    by TheBloop

    Worked so well with Gaza. Well, if you like rockets raining down on your head. Good job , Hamas, way to reach for that brass ring.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST

    The Rock-Throwing Palestinian

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    It is interesting how the image of the rock throwing Palestinian is etched onto the American psyche. Yet somehow the image of the IDF who don't chuck stones but bomb using the latest US weaponry (M1A1 tanks, F-16s, Apaches) glossed over. Even the rhetoric of the rockets of HAMAS is exaggerated to to make it sound as if these primitive weapons are akin to the 300 Nuclear warheads that Israel possesses.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:16 p.m. CST

    That Sucks...

    by VinnyMac666

    this review has severely disappointed me.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:17 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks, so using this ideology...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...about the proper ability to use violence against those who are trying to "subject" a group to their "ideology," do you not understand how ridiculous it sounds?!? Using this same sort of flawed logic, then another group (like "Christian" America) could BOMB THE HELL out of the entire Middle East because of 9/11. Do you see the flaw in your "logic?" Islam can be a peaceful religion, but this logic is what allows fanatics to turn it into a violence-prone sect. You also justified a "token tax" on non-believers living in Muslim lands, because you said that it was "not generally an exorbitant amount of money." What would happen if "Christian" civilization taxed MUSLIMS just so that they can live? Do you see how stupid this sounds? There is NO SUCH THING as "Muslim land." There is no such thing as "Jewish land." there is not such thing as "Christian land." It is just property. Until we begin to treat our fellow human beings with more dignity and respect than we show to property, then those fanatics within a religion who condone violence will continue to ruin the region for those who do not.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    What in the hell did you expect?

    by Hervoyel

    We're two and a half hours into this guys 15 minutes of fame. Of course he's got nothing.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Dhimmitude is AGAIN not an Islamic Word

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Granted there have been many tyrants to have done shit to sully Islam. But these terms such as Dhimmitude has latched on by the likes of Robert Spencer, supposed experts in Islam, to portray Islam in general negatively. Most reasonable people would like to move on and separate the failings of men to their religion. But others with an agenda harp on them. If so, what about the Inquisition? What about the child abuse scandal in the RC church? Of course, these are sick individuals acting outside their religion. BTW: Israel still claims to occupy Gaza and its airspace, this is some freedom isn't it? They also want to keep the best land and fresh water sources for themselves...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:23 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks, who struck first?

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    In 1989, the modern conflict began when Palestinian youths began throwing rocks at a Orthodox Jewish sect who were attempting to lay a fake, symbolic cornerstone for a new Jewish Temple. The violence escalated, and became what we see every night on the news: Palestinian children and youth being congratulated for throwing rocks at the face of the children of the Jewish "conquerers." Then we see young Palestinian girls blow themselves up on school buses filled with innocent children. How is such violence justified? If an Israeli really shot at an innocent Palestinian, then they should be brought to justice and severely punished. But to claim that suicide bombing is justifiable would make you a fanatical extremist just as evil as Osama bin Laden.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:23 p.m. CST

    even atheists must concede this point

    by ArcadianDS

    Every single other religion in the history of mankind has at its core one basic principle: 'dont be an ass to other people.'<p> Enter Islam where the one basic principle is: 'those who aren't muslims are like cattle. feel free to butcher them. Then beat your women into comas.'<p> And to jump ahead of all the responses about how the jihadists are misinterpreting the khoran, i'm sorry but no - its the mainstream, peaceful 'progressive muslims' who are misinterpreting their doctrines. Anyone with even a passing, momentary familiarity with it, who has an equally slim familiarity with admitting to truth, would be forced to admit that yes, the khoran is essentially the world's first military handbook.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Understood Peace and Respect is Needed

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    But people should be able to believe what they want to believe as long as they do not subject there belief on others. The time for taxes is gone as is the time for many things. But the people of the middle east want to live in a certain way. We can criticize that and claim that they are backwards or even barbaric. But as long as they are not shoving their beliefs down our throats I do not see a problem. Morality is subjective. Some feel that homosexuality is immoral, others feel that polygamy is reprehensible...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:25 p.m. CST

    oh and one addendum

    by ArcadianDS

    I realize that all religions are full of evil, hateful people. The difference is that in all other religions, the evil hateful people are living in conflict with their core doctrines. Whereas any muslim who is not in the midst of plotting your beheading, is also in conflict with their core doctrines.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:28 p.m. CST

    @darfurontherocks

    by ArcadianDS

    Regardless of one's spiritual beliefs or cultural background, religions whose rules mandate that a woman who is raped is to be stoned to death - i think we can all agree that there's something just not correct there. I dont think as a species we should 'let those guys over there do as they wish' when they have laws like that on the books, and while they dont stone women to death, they do in fact issue beatings and lashes to the backs of women who are raped. It happened just last month in Saudi Arabia.<p> While theyre not subjecting that belief on others, i think its still incumbent upon us to condemn religons and societies with such a disregard for humanity.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Israel is right DarfurOnTheCock

    by Hervoyel

    There are no Palestinians. There has never been a "Palestine" (and at the rate they're going there never will be). If they'd started work on their new country in 1948 like they were supposed to do then none of this shit would be going down. The problem is the Arabs never wanted a Palestine (and in fact when Jordan did actually take back the West Bank they promptly annexed it and made all the residents Jordanian citizens (until they screwed up and lost it again at which point they magically transformed into Palestinians somehow. Islam is just a religon but it's the only one of the three Abrahamic religons that has yet to be truly brought to heel by civilization and reason. Do you see the Catholic church making countries do what they say anymore? Do you see the Catholic church launching inquisitions anymore (old school inquisitions with torture and killing)? Of course you don't. Catholicism has been "tamed" to the extent that it can be. Likewise with Judaism. Only Islam remains in the 12th fucking century. When muslims finally figure out that their religon needs to be put in it's place then this crap will come to a conclusion. Until then the rest of us get to read about their stonings and their fatwas and all the other shit that takes place when a religon gets complete control of a society.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:30 p.m. CST

    And yes Islam is one of the world's fastest growing religion?

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I love the idea that those evil Palestinians are killing children. Of course the IDF don't throw stones, but fire bullets and missiles at them. This did not start in 1989, this issue stems from the problematic creation of the Jewish State in the 1940's. Everyone needs to work on a 2 state solution and live well. Of course, you probably will try to link Islam with Nazi's now...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST

    How do the Weinsteins stay in business

    by skywalkerfamily

    with one flop after another?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Dhimmitude

    by TheBloop

    In a recent interview with the head of Hamas, called for a return to Dhimmitude. His reason was there was peace when Christians and jews lived UNDER Islamic rule. But I guess you can jump up and down and say its not and Islamic word.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Islam does not say that a women who is raped is guilty

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    ..or should die. That is what kills me. The stuff about Islam that people say with authority is ridiculous. Has some asshole done it. Probably. Is he acting within the religion: NO.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:37 p.m. CST

    DhimmiTUDE and the importance placed on it....

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Once again we are stuck on dhimmi. Who is doing it today though? Please let me know....

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:38 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...if you love the idea of Palestinians killing children, then you are a fanatical extremist who deserves to have the Muhammed beat out of him! How dare you preach to us about the "proper" use of violence! THERE IS NO PROPER USE OF VIOLENCE! I don't care whether the Jews took the land of the Palestinians in 1948 (even though there was NOT a Palestinian country and many Jews lived in the region too) OR whether this is about Native Americans who had their land taken by Europeans: VIOLENCE AGAINST THE INNOCENT IS NEVER JUSTIFIED!!! You need to face the facts that a great majority of worldwide Muslims (30%) felt that 9/11 was justifiable. Something is wrong when such a huge percentage of adherents to a religion believe in violence. Something is wrong when someone claims that Muslims have a right to murder because of mental influence exerted upon a group. Something is wrong when people value land and religion (not religious freedom, but religious sectarianism) MORE THAN they value the lives of innocent children. How is violence justified? How will anyone with a logical brain ever take someone seriously who displays such fanatically extreme terroristic ideas? You might want to consider rethinking your faith if it calls for such VIOLENCE.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:39 p.m. CST

    I think that our government is more of a threat...

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    ..to our personal freedoms than the phantom menace of Islam, who simply "do not like the way we live..." I just say that because our personal freedoms and the great Constitution of the US is being raped. Internet and phone records are being scoured. All for what?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Q: Can a Muslim man beat his wife?

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    A: Yes, as long as he doesn't use his fists. From verse 4:34 of the Quran: "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Wow, what a noble passage! *rolls eyes

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:44 p.m. CST

    And Yet YOU give the IDF a free pass...

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    That is interesting. I like that strawman argument where now I am advocating the killing of innocents! Very shrew debating there...! Violence is horrid. Yet you gloss over US aggression in Iraq also. In fact, it is YOU and justifies IDF aggression by claiming that Palestinians started it by chucking stones in 1989. Of course, that was the rationale to unleash hell on the Palestinians. But of course, Palestinians deserved it....

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Oh NO, the classic "let's find violence in Quran" line...

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I won't return the favour and do an internet search on the Bible and Torah. :)

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Did Ike Beat Tina?

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    That baaaaaad Christian man!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:47 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    You said, "Internet and phone records are being scoured. All for what?" Answer: The little "phone tapping" that takes place is a result of the Federal authorities looking for FANATICAL TERRORISTS. Why would you fear that? In fact, it makes the nation a safer place from the evil wackos like Osama bin Laden!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:47 p.m. CST

    surprised by all the spurlock hate around here

    by systemsbroom

    The guy makes a semi-amusing movie about a semi-interesting hypothetical, and the talkbackers go nuts *four and a half years later* because of a tepid (and vapid) review of what sounds to be some other semi-amusing and semi-interesting movie.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Martyr Mouse was Dhimmitude , that who!

    by TheBloop

    "What is being asked, so that the Americans and Zionists will be satisfied with you, is to follow their lead," said Hamzim Al-Sha'arawi, deputy director of Al-Aqsa TV. "We [on this program] have a message, and we understood from the beginning that it is a difficult path ... But we were sure that we had to go this way because this [young] generation needs someone to direct it ... and this generation is the most worthy of the position of leadership," he said. Sha'arawi went on to say that historically, Jews and Christians were "happy" living under Islamic rule. "Therefore, when we talk [on the program] about the mission of the restoration of Islam to its natural [dominant] place, we're calling for justice, and for goodness, and for world love ... so that the Christians will live in peace, and that even the Jews will live in peace and security," he said

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Did Hitler kill 6 million Jews?

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Yes he did commit genocide on the innocent. That baaaaad Christain man.... or was he a Muslim now?!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:48 p.m. CST

    The "2 state solution" is fine except....

    by Hervoyel

    Everytime Israel conceeds land the PINO's move their rocket launchers a few hundred yards closer to their targets. It's a sad, pitiful state of affairs but eventually the rest of the world is going to have to decide to continue living with this shit or just put the Palestinians down for the good of the species. Hey, it sucks but what kind of a society do you think appears after 60 years of life in refugee camps when your "pals" in the rest of the Arab world refuse to take you and think that the best kind foreign aid they can give you is AK-47's and RPG's. Sometimes you got to put a rabid dog down man and that's what the people in Gaza and the West Bank are going to be facing if they don't come join the rest of us in the 21st.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:49 p.m. CST

    I don't get stripped search at Airports...

    by TheBloop

    Because of the IDF or Ike Turner.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Bloop, you are quoting the Arabic equivalent of 600 Club

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    That is what you are doing. Can I get some Jerry Falwell quotes please?!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:52 p.m. CST

    I think the point where you hold up Hitler

    by TheBloop

    As a christian example, is about the point you should go back to your prayer rug, and give thanks to Allah you don't live in shit hole like Syria or the Sudan.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Anyways, thanks for the debate

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    All the respect to you chaps.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:54 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks, please understand:

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    While I can't speak as an authority of Hinduism or Judaism, I can say that the New Testament is very pointedly forbids shedding violence against innocent individuals. Judaism rejects a literal interpretation of violence. Some Muslims take the violence in their Quran and take it to heart. They murder in the Name of religion. Do you see the difference? Please understand that I am NOT attacking Islam. However, I am attacking an interpretation of Islam that condones violence against the innocent. That is why there is a very real need for a seperation between Church and State in the Middle East. Unfortunately, the influence of radical clerics in the mosques on Fridays often translate into violence between Saturday through Thursday. Islam needs a reformation. They need their own "Martin Luther" to write and edict that identifies these sort of radical, violent fundamentalistic ideas as outdated HERESY. Any religion that teaches, promotes or condones violence should be considered a dangerous sect. Then again, there isn't much freedom of speech in the Middle East, is there? An attack on violence could be seen as an attack on Islam (as has been the case in the recent past).

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:56 p.m. CST

    As repulsive as Jerry Falwell is...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...I don't think that he ever condoned an act of suicide bombing. Try again, Darfur. *sigh

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Nazi and Hitler aren't christians words

    by TheBloop

    so I guess they didn't exist, using your logic.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:57 p.m. CST

    ccchhhrrriiisssm

    by systemsbroom

    The social upset over the phone tapping isn't directed at the act of phone tapping per se. It's because the administration authorized phone tapping without judicial oversight, which is illegal. And the reason it is illegal is because it's a really bad idea to allow one branch of government to act secretly and unilaterally like that--there's no way to ensure that the tapping that's being done is for legitimate anti-crime/antiterroristic purposes, and not for illegitimate political or corrupt purposes. <P> Sure, the administration is staffed full of ethical supermen who would never do anything wrong, but maybe a future administration wouldn't be so super-scrupulous. And that's the point. That's why historically we've made such a big deal of being a nation of "laws not men"--we are attempting to design a system whereby the government is only incentivized to do the right thing. When the executive decides to cut corners on oversight, sure, they might be mildly more effective in catching bad guys, but it opens up the door for all sorts of bad behavior on the part of our own government.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 1:59 p.m. CST

    OKAY BOYS HERE WE GO--DARFUR, ANCHORITE, ETC...

    by Deus Vult

    first off, did the entire subject make it in? if not, who cares. I've read every post in this talkback and I just couldn't not join in.<p>secondly, if you're not talking about the movie, in this case a total failure of a doc which austin-liberal-harry hoped would continue to embarass the current administration, then you, me and the rest are all gonna get yelled at by mori. SO MORI HERE'S MY POST ON THE MOVIE: bin laden is iran. the mullahs got him leaving tora bora and have held on to him ever since.<p> thirdly with that outta the way history is not any muslim's side. I HAVE READ NUMEROUS BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT DARFUR...to start I've got a BS in Poli Sci with a focus on international relations. next up add in my undergrad thesis was on the israeli/arab conflict. while doing research on the topic I was introduced to bernard lewis, considered the pre-eminent scholar on islam. AND GUESS WHAT?!? THE GUY'S A JEW!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2 p.m. CST

    OH FOR UNEDITABLE POST'S SAKE HARRY

    by Deus Vult

    you live in freakin' austin...PLEASE spend a few hundred dollars and hire some outta work programmers to give us the ability to edit our posts or retract those which are entered in error. good lord!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2 p.m. CST

    Darfur...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...Hitler was actually an atheist and a eugenisist. To call him a "Christian" is like calling Mohammed a Jew. Christianity (with the exception of the Roman Catholic inquisition, crusades, and a few wacko sects) has largely rejected violence because violence is rejected by New Testament scriptures. There are no justifications for violence in the New Testament. I wish that the same could be said from the Quran. But this is not an attack on the Quran. It is an attack upon violent fundamentalists who interpret the Quran as condoning their terrorism.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:03 p.m. CST

    READY? HERE'S THE REST...

    by Deus Vult

    in addition to the mass amount of stuff I've read from lewis, who isn't for or against islam as many authors are, I've read stuff from karen armstrong (huge islam apologist) as well as cnn darling reza aslan. finally I read from critical perspective as well, from folks like robert spencer and norman podhoretz. so when it comes to having an educated, well-rounded, historical perspective, no one is more qualified than myself to discuss this topic with you DARFUR...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Falwell just blamed Homosexuals for 9/11

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Craziness nonetheless... But I agree with you that innocent civilians should never be killed. Violence is also abhorant. It is not the answer for the problems of the world. Anchorite: If that chap really said what you pasted, then he is not acting as a Muslim. I guess he is just as much a Muslim as Hitler is a Christian....

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:06 p.m. CST

    systemsbroom...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    I agree with much of what you say. There needs to be judicial oversight. I was simply responding to Darfur's allegation that "phone tapping" is as evil as his rhetorical defense of suicide bombing. Regardless of what the conspiracy theorists claim, the entire rationale behind "phone tapping" is to catch violent criminal behavior BEFORE it happens. The FBI and CIA are not listening to us gossip about Grandma's cookies. They are looking for intelligence that would prevent another 9/11. I could care less if the FBI and CIA are tapping my phone! They would be BORED senseless. Besides, I have nothing to hide. It's like walking through a metal detector in the airport or having our luggage x-rayed. But a terrorist, on the other hand, has quite a bit to hide. A phone tap for him could mean the difference between success and failure and the innocent lives of thousands. That was the difference that I was trying to expose.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Arabic equivalent of 600 Club?

    by TheBloop

    You just asked for a current example of Dhimmitude, and I gave you an example of an ELECTED LEADER who is calling for it. And what is the 600 club, did Pat Robertson go on a diet?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:11 p.m. CST

    LOL, you got me :)

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    I meant, a nation that has implemented dhimmi. Anyways, take care of yourself.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:11 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    I think that you'll agree, then, that there is a real theology problem when 30% of the world's Muslim population think that 9/11 may have been justified. The same Gallup poll also showed that almost half of the world's Muslim population thought that the US or Israel was part of some conspiracy in regard to 9/11. This is simply INSANE! No wonder why those who are prone to believing such ridiculosu nonsense are prone to embracing violence. While it may not be reflective of all of Islam, it does display that something is very wrong with the big picture. Whether or not this problem originates in the mosque is an entirely different question, but one that needs to be asked.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:14 p.m. CST

    NOW WITH INTROS OUTTA THE WAY...

    by Deus Vult

    anchorite you may remember me from the hannibal rising talkback with jjonz, dick nicely and s-mart shopper. ALSO--that talkback is where the concept of "repligin time travel" came from...ANYWAY...<p>here's the deal darfur...history is never on the side of anyone trying to prove the old or new testament is as bloody as the koran. the old testament is about the hebrews fighting DEFENSIVE wars, the new testament, as far as the version I've read, is about not fighting wars (not even going to address gnostic versions of jesus and the apostles forming a new-age hebrew delta force to take out the temple's high priests).<p>HOWEVER the koran is about fighting OFFENSIVE wars. for instance; slay the idolators and pagans (hindus, buddhists, etc), slay the people of the book who refuse to convert or pay the jiz'yah (tax on monotheists who live in muslim lands, to include jews, christians, zoroastrians, etc), slay the athiests, slay anyone who doesn't believe in allah and the last day, and most importantly SLAY ANYONE WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE MOHAMMED IS ALLAH'S FINAL AND TRUTH BEARING PROPHET.<p>does anyone see or find a pattern here? did you know that mohammed was raised around jews and christians and if you really read the history of islam you'll learn he really wanted to be a jew but the hebrews wanted nothing to do with him so they conspired with the arab hindus to kill him. as history shows us they failed. so he simply got angry, copied all the jewish holidays, stories, traditions and rules of living, gave them arab names, and tried to exterminate all jews in arabia and beyond. easy--no history reading required.<p>thus the precedent was set; all muslims believe muhammed to be the finest human ever and his example to be followed until death. as such all muslims must kill all jews, lest they convert or pay the tax. this is why israel and its muslim neighbors, remnants of palestine included, can NEVER EVER live side by side. jews don't WANT to kill muslims, muslims WANT to kill jews.<p>lastly, isn't darfur on the rocks and needs to be saved because muslims are killing christians there as they have four the last 1400 years? and these muslims are armed and financed by the saudis? OH YEAH! THAT'S IT! <p>unless DarfurOnTheRocks you have a different side of the story...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Ever read a Saudi, Syrian or Iranian textbook?

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    Try reading one if you want to know why children believe that violence is an answer or that 9/11 was part of a US/Israeli conspiracy. The children are indoctrinated in many Muslim primary schools. On Fridays, they go to the mosque for further indoctrination. They counsel with clerics who further indoctrinate them. Their parents encourage them to dream in the fame of martyrdom. Is there any wonder why they are willing to strap bombs to their bodies and kill innocent people? While this is not indicative of the entire Muslim population, it is indicative of a large segment of that population.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:22 p.m. CST

    ccchhhrrriiisssm

    by systemsbroom

    Cool, that's what I figured your argument was. I would caution you against making the blanket statement that the CIA and FBI are only looking for intelligence regarding terrorists. Both agencies (especially the FBI) have a long and rather inglorious history of having abused their authority for political purposes. Again, that's my point: because self-interested jerks *will* exploit a system, it's best to design that system so that it's very difficult to get away with exploiting it. And for members of the public to maintain a healthy suspicion about what the government is up to in their name and with their money.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:22 p.m. CST

    You are Right: MANY MUSLIMS NEED EDUCATION

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Agreed. Violence is seen as such an easy option, that certain Muslims seem to forget the primacy placed on peace. Deus, you take such liberties with the material that you are serving. Each line of the Quran is context sensitive. Muslims were persecuted by the many tribes in Arabia during the birth of the religion. Granted there was a period of Islamic expansion, but Islam was under fire from many empires including the Persian and Roman. Muslims do not want to kill Jews. In fact, some of the first alliances that Islam made were with Jewish tribes. A lot of the problems at the moment concern the politics of the STATE OF ISRAEL. Anyways, I have spent the day chatting, but a lot of your evidence is shaky... Once again, many modern Muslims NEED education and need to think for themselves...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:24 p.m. CST

    okay okay even I have a job too!

    by Deus Vult

    Darfur: shaky evidence? you can't say something like that and excuse yourself due to wasting your life away here with us!<P>on a related note, I have a demo at 230 and must get ready for it. I'll be back later if you or anyone else care to keep talking about this topic, or as long as mori lets us.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Deus Vult

    by systemsbroom

    I don't understand why you keep harping on the Koran and, most recently, on the supposed motivations of a centuries-dead nominal prophet. You say that Koran is about fighting offensive wars. Why is that at all relevant, even if it's true? We here in the US start offensive wars, and we don't need any Koran to make it happen. And we are much, much better at it than any of the muslim states.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Man, You're killing Me!

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Hopefully, we'll chat later. Take care! :)

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:34 p.m. CST

    The funny thing is...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...that the "phone tapping" was used as a "free speech" argument in defense of the actions of Muslim nations. What is "free speech" in Saudi Arabia? What is "free speech" in Syria? It's called "DON'T GET CAUGHT." But I do think that Darfur has admitted that violence can NEVER be condoned in the name of Islam. If a cleric teaches it, he should be banned from teaching. If a parent teaches it, he should be banned from teaching his children. If a school teaches it, the school should be dismantled. But the fact remains that something is terribly wrong in the Islamic world. When 30% of the population feels that 9/11 was justifiable, then that is indicative of the mood and morality of the people. If 50% are willing to believe a wild conspiracy theory, then someone is wrong with the picture. When school textbooks condone violence, religious bigotry, "martyrs," etc... -- then something is wrong with the big picture. While this might not be reflective of all Muslims, this is reflective of a large portion of the population. Either something is wrong with the teachings, or something is wrong with the philosophy upon which the teachings are based. But this is the foremost problem of the Middle East and why so few non-Muslims can reason or respect such attitudes. There seems to be an unwillingness to tackle the perceptions of the population. To do so, so it seems, would be an attack on Islam itself. Do you see this dichotomic dilemma? We are not attacking Islam, we are pointing to a flaw that is ignored within the perception of Muslims.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:37 p.m. CST

    anchorite

    by systemsbroom

    What is with you people? Who cares if "the muslims were chin-deep in with the Third Reich"? So were the Italians and the Japanese for chrissakes! <P> Yeesh. Look at the population profiles of the "muslim" nations. They're almost entirely populated by people born after--and often *way* after--the second world war. <P> There's plenty to talk about regarding the islam, the west, and the middle east without resorting to this sort of silly armchair/history channel level of analysis.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:46 p.m. CST

    WTF is it with "MUSLIM" collaboration with NAZIs?

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    That is what kills me. Some tyrant, who happens to be a Muslim, sides with Hilter and you go off connecting Islam with Hilter's genocide! Why would you do that unless you WANT to link ISLAM to the Holocaust?! How many Western leaders chose to ignore the NAZI threat?! The British are culpable. The US are culpable. The French and Russians also. Many individuals could forgive the Germans for their role, yet this Mufti is now representative of the entire Muslim nation..... give me a break....

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:50 p.m. CST

    It is unfortunate that brainwashing goes on in EVERY religion

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Jewish friends tell me of stories that they were told regarding Muslims. Muslims tell me of shit they heard "elders" tell them. Rinse and repeat for everyone. But it seems to me that you just want to tee off against Islam...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Ford's Connection with Hilter?!

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    He extolled the virtues of Hilter. Why do we let him off the hook? Many consider Henry Ford an anti-Semite. I guess only Muslims are anti-Semites...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    While brainwashing goes on in nearly every sect...it is rare that 30% of a world's population will be influenced by it. What is the percentage of Jews, Christians and Hindus that condone violence in the name of religious belief? It is probably less than 1% (or maybe even 1/2 of 1%). Yet 30% of the world's Muslim population felt that 9/11 was justifiable. Even you began your diatribe in this talkback by defending Islamic practice by attacking the supposed views of others. Something is SERIOUSLY WRONG when a third of a religion's practictioners believe that violence against innocent people is justifiable, or when half of the practicioners are susceptible to wild conspiracy theories. The question begs to be asked: Where is this view originating? The origination for such radical and violent beliefs needs to be targeted and dismantled. As you said, there needs to be a reformation in the education of Muslims. This crap is being taught within the textbooks in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, etc... And who is responsbile for what is found in those textbooks? The religious clerics and mullahs. A new "revolution" must take place within Islam that embraces peace and nonviolence over the status quo.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    You are being general Anchorite.....

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Arab World supporting Nazis? I love how to use the Arab and Muslim identities interchangeably. There are millions of Muslims in China, India, Africa. Did these people support Hilter also? Yet now we get to the heart of the matter in your personal insults. Keep on going with your generalizations. The 50 million Muslims in China hate Jews now....

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:06 p.m. CST

    anchorite (and why not--darfur guy too)

    by systemsbroom

    Wow. I guess you are right. I was being "incredibly insulting" by suggesting that that this whole weird inquiry into potential backroom associations between nazis and muslims was kinda pointless. <P> And you are also right that Japanese and Italian people don't blow shit up in Israel. Probably because the Japanese and Italians are by and large wealthy people who live thousands/hundreds of miles from Israel, and aren't in the midst of an asymetrical armed conflict over territory with the afore-mentioned polity. My point is (and was) that none of this has anything to do with nazis. <P> Anyway, your more recent statement that "the Arab world . . . were all for the extermination of the Jews" is a little far-fetched. I mean, there were only a tiny number of Jewish people living in Arab regions in the first half of the 20th century. I really doubt that the millions of dirt-poor Arabs living there cared about them at all. As opposed to, say, the British, who were a colonial power present in the middle east at the time.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Am I on the right site?!?!

    by Brians Life

    I love how if you get far enough down on the talkbacks anything is possible.<br> So, the Arab/Israeli conflict huh? We couldn't start with something a little deeper?<br><br>I can't talk religion as I'm an atheist and you're ALL gonna feel REAL silly when you die as far as I'm concerned. That being said, I am rather scholarly on the subjects at hand.....where to start???

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Dont put too much stock in 30% figure

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    All that I can say that Muslims are not animals and savages. We like life. We enjoy living. Someone is trying to portray us as sub-human. That is what I am primarily commenting against. See some of the comments before I started my diatribe to see the hate against Muslims. This sort of hate is fashionable nowadays. really that is all I can say. Many people are telling me what I am supposed to be. I am supposed to hate Jews. I don't. I am supposed to beat my wife. I love my wife. I am supposed to like war. I don't like to exercise. I am telling you what I am and what I believe. I am sorry if you are hung up on numbers or what the so-called experts are writing about Islam. Islam is different for sure. We are not savages however. Best regards.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:14 p.m. CST

    The 9/11 being justifiable thing....

    by Brians Life

    Just so's you know...was crossing the GW on 9/11...afterwards I needed to get out of the country, so I traveled for about 2 months....there is ALOT of international sentiment that it was "about time" regarding Sept. 11th. And, you can't just strip away the context of everything....America is seen as a Pillar of Israel...and rightfully so. We have a very aggressive israel lobby...give them more aid than any other nation. So is it hard to imagine that from a non-American POV that we got a taste of what we have been giving!?! This is NOT my opinion. I know people who died that day.....but you can't say "Almost 50 percent of the VietCong believe that dead American soldiers is a BAD THING....OOOOOOHHHH"

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:14 p.m. CST

    I wish the Cloverfield Monster showed up in Iran

    by Puddleglum

    does that make me racist? <p> Do I care? <p> The Muslims you see on the news screaming for the blood of Jews, etc = the American religious zealots who chant passionate pleas to Dubbya Bush to please, please, please make the US a "Christian nation" and bomb abortion clinics.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:15 p.m. CST

    The Suicide Bomber Thing...

    by Brians Life

    Israel invented suicide bombing...and car bombing....well, not Israel, but zionists. Do you think that the first Israeli Army just MADE all the weaponry they fought with??! They stole it from the British.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:17 p.m. CST

    anchorite

    by Puddleglum

    I think this sums it all up: "It is ignorance and fear that controls their lives." <p> This is exactly what leads to persistent conflict around the globe.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Puddlegum....

    by Brians Life

    do you realize that the majority of Iran is very young and probably just as eager to see Cloverfield as you are!! Do YOU want to be held responsible for the policies of the Bush Administation....so why do we declare Iran as EVIL due to the policies of it's leader!?! Which aren't ever THAT extreme! He has NO control over the Revolutionary Guard....AHHHHH!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:21 p.m. CST

    The Isaraeli's didn't steal their armaments from the Brits

    by Puddleglum

    They gave/sold it to them. On the very day Israel was declared a nation, the neighboring Arab nations had already announced and staged they would invade and "destroy" Israel when statehood was officially declared. The Israelis had to get their gear from somewhere.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:22 p.m. CST

    The Israel just wants Peace thing....

    by Brians Life

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHAH...oh wait....no, I was right. HAAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA<br> Really!?! That's why they've adapted a 10 to 1 blowback policy!?!? That's why Israeli settlers roam armed with automatic weapons and grenades. That's why Palestineans are not aloud on most major roads. that's why the only thing keeping Israels expansionist policies in check is that it needs US support!?!? Israel EXISTS!!! There is no denything that...but the "RIGHT TO EXIST"...why?!! Why should any nation be granted that "right".

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Darfur...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    This "30%" is taken from a worldwide Gallup poll that was operated in conjunction with Al Jazeera and several major Arab newspapers in the Middle East. I am a post-graduate student of Public Policy, but I have sat through many International Relations classes. Several of these have been taught by wonderful Muslim professors. However, even they did not have an answer for the problems. None of them have been able (or willing) to identify the root of this violent, radical fundamentalist situation. They simply acknowledge that there is a HUGE PROBLEM. If we keep ignoring the obvious, then the problem will never be dealt with properly. This is not "HATE" for Islam. This is simply the understanding that something is terribly wrong in the Middle East, and there is an embracement of violence (as a solution) that is generally rejected by all other major, mainstream religions. 30% indicated a belief that 9/11 was justified. 50% indicated a belief that the US and Israel were at least partially behind 9/11. And another larger statistic (I cannot remember the exact figure) stated that they believe that violence is justifiable in defense of Islam. Even if the numbers are off, they do illustrate a terrible situation in the Middle East. The textbooks for children iterate such beliefs. The messages from clerics often reflect this attitude. Where is the root of this belief in violence? I hope that it is not in the Quran itself...but we need to look somewhere. Such violence is not reflective of any society that should hold the respect of Western nations or world powers. Until there is a general rejection of violence, then the Middle East will remain trapped in a centuries old quagmire filled with hatred, distrust and mindless violence. But the moment that the population of a religion rejects this, peer pressure will allow such attitudes to spread. Finally, the region will hold the respect of the world community. Until then, it is doomed.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Brian's Life

    by Puddleglum

    Because I sorta enjoy stirring shit up. See my subsequent posts where I concede that all the calls for blood and death come ignorance, which exists in every country around the world. Including the US.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:26 p.m. CST

    You're good, Puddlegum...

    by Brians Life

    You're damn good.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Of course there is SOMETHING wrong...

    by Brians Life

    ...in the middle east. Since it's founding Western powers have been slicing and dicing it. Put these people here, these 3 together....ohhh...now the Jews need a home....another little slice here. the area has never been stable enough to truly industrialize, let alone modernize.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Brian's Life...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...what is wrong in the Middle East goes much deeper than land or what you consider "zionism." If the theory of a "Zionist Conspiracy" was as far fetched as you claim, why would they even want that land in the Middle East? It was a HELLHOLE when they the nation of Israel was formally created in 1948. The problem in the Middle East is far deeper. It goes to a supposed "religious" acceptance of violence. You can't just blame it upon the Western powers. If you really want to understand the Middle East, spend a month in Syria or Saudi Arabia. But be prepared to pay a tax just to live (since you are an unbeliever). Be prepared to watch thieves have their hands chopped off in plain view of children. Be prepared for violence and propaganda to be taught and instructed in the state schools. As bad as you may think that the US and other Western nations are, the Mid East is FAR WORSE.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Brian's Life...and I hope to God that you're not a woman.

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    Because if you spend a month in the Middle East, you will NEVER complain about a glass ceiling ever again! A woman is treated like a second class citizen in many Muslim nations. They can be beaten by their husbands, who are often free to marry as many women as they can support. You "education" is confined to what your husband or father wants to give you. And Allah forbid that you open your mouth in the name of free thought or expression. Free speech is generally condemned if it doesn't support the status quo of Islam. Don't you dare claim to be an atheist or a Chrisitan! The effect could be devastating to your health if you mention one point of your beliefs in the public (while you are forced to observe and live according to the Islamic rules). But, I'm sure that you would LOVE living in a nation like that as opposed to these "terrible" nations of the Western powers.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Clarity is a beautiful thing...

    by Brians Life

    The Israeli's DID strap bombs on and take out innocent civilians. Granted just not to themselves...but the Stern's were known for using car and truck bombs on the British and Palestinians. Yes, the Jews bartered for weaponry as well as stealing them from British military. My POINT was simply that typically one side is branded for atrocities depending on the point of view. Be in through politics or the media, Israel is ALWAYS given the fairer shake of the stick. Anchorite, you seem quite educated on the matter so I take it your opinion is as well. I respect THAT immensely, however I dont even think most American know that Israel wasn't always a nation. That scares me. When people make decisions with NO information.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:51 p.m. CST

    THIS IS JUST BREAKING ON DRUDGEREPORT.COM

    by BurgerTime

    Apparently Heath Ledger was found dead.... developing...

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Ledger is dead?

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    Holy crap, Batman!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Whoa...I thought that you were joking!

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    But Heath Ledger IS dead! Oh man. http ://www.wnbc. com/entertainment/15113586/d etail.html (without spaces)

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Okay then, Anchorite you're one-sided...

    by Brians Life

    Since now we're calling names. Okay...let me start this by saying that Judaism is a religion...Israel is a country and therefore must be held responsible for the policies and actions of a country. I do NOT believe in a Zionist conspiracy. I think that Israel needs to defend itself and I think that having a democracy in the middle east is something that needs support. But to simply say: "ARABS hate Jews. This would all work out if only Arabs didn't hate Jews." Now, look fellas, I like to play devil's advocate. My girlfriend is very Pro-Palestine and I love to come at her with the Israeli POV...but, you fellas are only examining one side of the coin. Have any of you read anything NOT by Allan Dershowitz. And CCCHH...whatever your name is....I have both lived and worked in Israel, Gaza and I was in Iran two months ago with FORPeace....FUCK doorbell...my Amazon Kindle just got here.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:58 p.m. CST

    WHAT!?!?!

    by Brians Life

    Are you guys fucking with me...Heath Ledger!?? At least he finished Dark Knight....HAH!!!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Another link about Ledger:

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    http ://cbs2.com/na tional/Heath.Ledger.Dead.2.635534.html ... ... ... What a terrible tragedy!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4 p.m. CST

    From My Point of View....

    by Brians Life

    I was writing to Anchor...hit POST...and the entire talkback had changed.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:03 p.m. CST

    FUCK! I really fuckin' liked him.

    by Brians Life

    Knight's Tale, Patriot, Brokeback Mountain, Dark Knight...he'll be missed. Probably fuckin' Al Quada. Sorry...I had to.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Anchor....over it. You're good people.

    by Brians Life

    I'm reading about Heath Ledger's death on my Amazon Kindle...WOOHOO! More toys for ME! Amazing how I can go from a rather selfless discussion about human rights to "I wonder if I can buy SERENITY NOW and read it on my new 400 dollar needless electonic reading device"

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 4:53 p.m. CST

    Spurlock is a hack!

    by quadrupletree

    Seriously, Supersize me was absolute shit. Everything he does is childish and self aggrandizing. There are plenty of great film documentarians out there trying to make it in the business. Stop seeing this guys movies!! He's a fake.

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:37 p.m. CST

    BadWonka

    by FatherMcGruderKicksAssForTheLord

    I just got around to your (much) earlier post re: how people who suggest the Spurlock is a hack should "shut. the. fuck. up." or whatever. <p> First off, Spurlock IS a hack. I have watched SSM, and I am not a McDonald's apologist or anything, but Spurlock & his hyperbolizing doctor, & his freakin' wife can go jump up YOUR ass - THAT documentary was a borderline hack job that everyone climbed over each other to praise because of it's 'buzz-worthy' topic. <p> Secondly, where did an elderly little grandmother such as yourself pick up such atrocious language, anyway?

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 6:38 p.m. CST

    Brians Life...

    by Vamp-AICNchat

    One word - CUNT!!

  • Jan. 22, 2008, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Node32774

    by Ravvy

    "Did he really expect Spurlock to find Bin Laden?" Nope, but i did expect him to seriously look into the matter and educate us about how the people who are supposed to be looking for him aren't or at the very least debunk one or two of the popular rumors about his whereabouts. The film does neither. Funny that you went on to say: "The point of the film is probably to illustrate that the people who are SUPPOSED to be looking for Bin Laden aren't." Cause thats what I was expecting, unfortunately thats not what the movie is if you actually read the review before running down here to call me an ass. "This guy is obviously biased in his hatred of the Spurlock and his previous attempts to make american less fat and stupid (God forbid) so I'll reserve my judgement." Nope. I actually like the guy's previous works. Supersize Me is actually a very entertaining film. Unfortunately I expected something more out of this film then a retread of SSM. You don't learn any more about middle eastern culture in this film than people learned that fast food makes you fat in SSM. "Thanks." You are welcome.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 2:41 a.m. CST

    any conspiracy freaks out there?

    by Maniaq

    Weinsteins see a few minutes worth of footage and immediately drop 25 million to purchase the property. The version that hits the festival circuit is an obvious hack job and soon the word on the street is don't bother checking it out. <br> <br> Meanwhile footage is handed over to authorities, pockets are lined to make up for the hack job tanking at the box office, mouths are silenced, and an important interview never sees the light of day ever again... <br> <br> just saying

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 3:55 a.m. CST

    Nazi Collusion

    by Lost Jarv

    anchorite your talking complete bollocks on this one- It is very, very easy to find catholic examples (the Vatican, and being the highest authority in Catholicism this is a howler, leaping to mind) that were knee deep with the Nazis. <p>I agree to a point with Darfur, it is very easy to vilify Islam for being a murdering bunch of primitives, but I would maintain that the majority of mainstream religions are bad- and I can easily find biblical examples of vioence that were neither "defensive" wars (a complete load of bollocks) or non-retributory. <p>Religion= a bad thing. I'm no marxist, but I think he was right on the money with this one: Religion= opiate of the masses.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Response to Tourist...

    by MJohnson

    First, being an elitist has nothing to do with my sexual orientation. I freely admit I'm an elitist you moron...being an elitist doesn't make me WRONG.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 7:17 a.m. CST

    Would be interesting...

    by Dazzler69

    to really try and find him. Take some steps. I guess they (filmmakers ) would think this ends up with their heads being chopped off. You just need a good crew to avoid that and not do this solo.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 8:35 a.m. CST

    SEPARATED AT BIRTH: Morgan Spurlok and The Milf Hunter

    by Cletus Van Damme

    Yup

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Nick Broomfield ... paging Nick Broomfield ...

    by reaper28

    I have a project for you ...

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Darfur is Not Being Obtuse

    by kevinwillis.net

    Moderate Islam and supposedly-moderate Islam is filled with organizations and individuals offering spin, talking points, rhetorical devices, etc., to deflect real questions about the incredibly high degree of violence practiced by an inordinately large number of people in their religion. Since the evidence of their violence (and the desire for a global caliphate under sharia law, by any means--but preferably the bloodies means--necessary) is plentiful and obvious, they are left with a strategy of spin, deflection, denial and dirisive diminution ("Ha, ha, how silly") of the legitimate points of their critics. Oh, and don't forget the incessant tu quoque arguments: Christians have done bad things, Hitler was a Christian, etc., that have absolutely nothing to do with what radical Islam practices today, and what moderate Islam tacitly condones.<br><br>It's not obtuseness, it's a strategy. If some are willing to behead infidels (alla akbar!) then a little spin and willful distortion (directed at such infidels) is a very easy and legitimate thing to do. A global caliphate, by any means necessary.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 10:12 a.m. CST

    The Milf Hunter

    by TheBloop

    What town does that dude troll for babes in? All the women he tags are hot. All the moms I see out in public here look like King Kong in Sweat Pants.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST

    "Make it bacon baby!"

    by Biggie Kaiju

    Love or hate "Super Size Me," the scene with the two young guys in Midtown busting chops about how people need to do some push-ups was funny as hell.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 12:39 p.m. CST

    kevinwillis.net is being Ridiculous

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    My points are very clear. But you operate under the conceit that you know my religion better than me. Therefore, you drop these terms which you hear from CNN and Fox like global caliphate, sharia law, and some which you got from some 80's Canon movie like Infidel, and then claim that what you are saying is valid criticism. Many of the criticisms are thinly veiled potshots of Islam. The hilarity of it all is that for all the reading and expertize that you try to exhibit, the latent racism permeates your arguments.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Scutineering

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    To be specific, your criticism does not hold water because if you were to subject any other ideology under that same scrutiny as you do to Islam and its adherents, they would all be viewed negatively. But to the depth in which you search for proof, culling data from selective sources shows that you discriminate against Islam.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 12:56 p.m. CST

    The Seperation of Church and State

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    The Seperation of Church and State has this amazing ability to allow those that butcher innocent people, and defraud workers from their pensions, to do so all week long and then attend Sunday Mass and be viewed as good Christians. I understand that in Islam there is no separation between religious and other aspects of life. But does anyone really think that a few hail Marys will let them Christians off the hook? Of course these individuals are not Christians when they commit genocide or theft....

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 12:59 p.m. CST

    So let's just say that Murderers are not Religious

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    ...or we can say that every ideology have murderers and nut jobs.... Your choice. But when you selectively pick of Islam, and then gloss over everyone else, you argument sort of falls apart.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 1:22 p.m. CST

    "Infidel" is indeed in the Quran

    by SkeletonParty

    I don't think it is a Western concept.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Muslims and Nazis and Fundamentalists Oh MY

    by queerfilmjunkie

    To those that want to villify Muslims for supporting the Third Reich, I would ask you what about Mussolini? What about the countless Italians and Germans and Christians who conspired with the Nazis to murder jews? Everybody wants to pick a side, to identify an enemy and blow them to kingdom come, when the reality is that we are all in this together. Violence, ignorance, poverty and fundamentalism are what is to blame for our current state. Chrisitan fundamentalists who talk about crusades in the Middle East are every bit as wrong as Muslim Fundamentalists who chant, "Death to America." Blaming one side or the other is stupid. People who kill innocents are criminals and should be brought to justice. What baffles me is that if the US Government uses sophisticated technology to kill 10 terrorists and 300 civilians, that's fine. But if a Palestinian throws a rock that kills a child, he's a monster. In war, everyone believes Right and God are on their side. And that's part of the problem.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Infidel means non-believer

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    It was first used in the 1400's Middle English. Check out the Wikipedia article for more information. Infidel was chosen to be used as a translation for Kafir, which means non-believer.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 1:39 p.m. CST

    True dat queerfilmjunkie

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Muslims are posited as barbaric and evil and blood thirsty. Why? It is a traditional colonial tactic where the other is viewed as animalistic and inhuman. Why? When the IDF kills the elderly and children and shut off the water and electricity, people dismiss this human rights violation because they are not human. The dominant powers always seem to do this same trick. Blacks could not fly planes in WWII because there nervous systems where not as developed as whites.... Africans where not human and not Christian so they could be shipped off as slaves. after all, there souls need salvation. Fast forward to today and these 12th century Mooslems need to embrace democracy. Therefore 100,000 civilians and an entire nation lay in ruins. That is ok, God told Bush to invade.... I am being obtuse again... sorry.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Wow, how simple-minded can you get? To all you AICN simpletons

    by Morelock

    It's never been about finding Osama, you morons. That's just the HOOK of the film. Super Size Me wasn't about eating McDonald's for 30 days either, dumbasses. Rav and all you mouth-breathers who obviously can't appreciate anything more complicated than a handheld-camera monster movie, do the human race a favor and castrate yourself now, before it's too late.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Darfur...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    Yes, you are being obtuse again...and illogical. You cannot defend the horrors of the Middle East by attacking the policies of the West. Even if there was no Western influence whatsoever in the Middle East, the region would still be filled with backward government and radical extremists who dictate the views of the people. Until every Muslim nation can become regular nations that happen to be filled with Muslims (thereby seperating Islam from the government), then there cannot be any peace in the region. Until the region guarantees every individual (man and woman) the right to make up their own minds about religion, social norms, gender rolls, etc... -- then the entire region will remain in an perpetual eclipse of reason. Until someone realizes that there is a real INTERNAL problem, nothing will change. Western nations will still see the Muslim world as backward nations devoid of basic human rights.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 3:30 p.m. CST

    ccchhrrriiisssm

    by queerfilmjunkie

    Why are you so focused on the horrors of the Middle East? What about the horrors of the West? Are you an American citizen? Do you condone the thousands of innocent civilians killed in Iraq over the last few years? If a Muslim and a Christian both commit an atrocity, why is one focused on more than the other?

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Morelock = Spurlock

    by FatherMcGruderKicksAssForTheLord

    PLANT!! <p> (j/k) <p> You're totally right, us mouth-breathers out here in BFE just didn't get it. Maybe I should watch it again. You wouldn't happen to have a copy of the Lo-Def wax cylinder, so I could watch it on my wooden TV, would you?

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 4:30 p.m. CST

    maybe Spurlock will go away now...

    by Rupee88

    Super Size Me was ok, but the guy is just not that talented. He had one good idea and executed it fairly well...but game over dude.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 5:52 p.m. CST

    The World is big enough for ALL beliefs

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    And yet the powers that seek to colonize are always preoccupied with the horrors of the Islamic world. Who are you to tell them how to live? But there is always a reason and rationale for subjecting others to one's beliefs. Of course, the familiar refrain of the colonizer is that "we are doing it for your own good." The positing of the other as inferior/primitive/savage/abnormal has been for so long to enslave others. And ccchhrrriiisssm attempts to do so against with his preoccupation with Islam and its problems. Like a said, Palestinians can go without electricity and all of this can be countered with "they don't know how to live/they kill children!" So we should all worry about our own neighborhoods instead of this fake concern for the middle east. If you are concerned, press congress for a FAIR two state solution to Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Criticize the IDF for shooting up the Church of the Nativity. If you are concerned about freedom then let the Middle East live how THEY want to. You will find for all of the threat of Islam, it is the US government that impeaches on the freedom of its people. Gays cannot marry. Women get paid less and work hard. Our freedom of speech is curtailed as is our privacy. Islam did not do that, Government did that. So please, thanks for the concern and let the primitive Mooslems live as if it is 3000 BC in their patch on land...... unless you are eyeing that patch for yourself....

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 6:16 p.m. CST

    ccchhrrriiisssm ASSUMES democracy as NATURAL

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Just like the colonial dominant power assumes a position of superiority. Hence, all the carnage that it caused is nominally for a good cause. There is no separation in Islam between it and the state. What you essentially want to do is transform the religion until it is indistinguishable to a mode of living suitable for you. Perhaps this is why Arabs are so peeved with Western INTERFERENCE. Muslims do give two hoots how the West sees them. They want to live the way that they want to live however. This is of course too much to ask. One thing I am curious about, with all of the talk about freedom, why do you want to steer how Muslims live? Kipling once said of African : The black man is my brother. However, he is my JUNIOR brother! It seems that this is the game that you are playing. The West knows best I suppose... I am story if my logic escapes you, I just cannot escape my graduate school training is Post-Colonial literature.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST

    THIS MOVIE IS BRILLIANT! DON'T BELIEVE THE RAV.I SAW IT TOO

    by Alaco

    Ok people,I was also at the premiere lining up alongside Rav obviously for 3 hours. But apparently saw a different movie. As did this guy from the LaTimes http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sundance/2008/01/did-morgan-sp-1.html who i wholeheartedly agree with. I can see how this movie could be a dissapointment for the (to borrow a phrase from rav) "retards" who really thought that someone has found the most wanted man in the world and kept that quiet. IDIOT! The movie does an amazing job at distilling the most pressing problems of humanity into a 90 minute, entertaining and enlightening documentary, which has the potential to be seen by people that really need to see it. Loved every minute of it! alaco

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 9:49 p.m. CST

    There is a problem in the Middle East...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...and it has nothing to do with Western policies, Darfur. You admitted this in your earlier posts. When over 30% of the Muslim world believes that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were JUSTIFIED, then something is wrong with this picture. And there is a difference between a supposed "Christian" who does something evil (in which the mainstream publicly condemns such actions) -- and a religious society that actually ENCOURAGES things like suicide bombings. Darfur, you can mock Western society and its problems all you want. But those problems are NOTHING compared to the problems in the Middle East.

  • Jan. 23, 2008, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Those problems are not the West's concern

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    It is arrogance for Western powers to assume the moral prerogative that it is their problem. The problem when you talk about social norms, mainstream, et al is that those things are subjective. Don't worry about the Islamic picture. Worry about the lack of social security, education, and health care that is YOUR picture in your house. PS: Suicide is a sin in Islam FYI... Once again, you attempt to tell me how my religion operates.... But this once more is a ploy of those that want control. In this system, it is the West that will tell Muslims want sort of Islam is acceptable. Also check up on the British and US roles in the entire Palestinian conflict in the 40's and then tell me again how their hands are clean from this mess. Long story short, the US should worry about the US and not interfere with sovereign nations.

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 2:55 a.m. CST

    He had a tv show for a bit after Super Size Me.

    by snakecharmer

    He used the Super Size Me format in his FX tv show but it wasn't that interesting and it didn't last. None of you have mentioned it. Bin Laden... our government has a good idea were he is but they really can't kill him Pakistan because the fall out in Pakistan would be huge. The Pakistani Prime Minister of Pakistan is going to be taken soon. It's a matter of time. Then, when the shit hits the fan, we'll get into the Tribal areas of Pakistan. In time, the books about what is going on with the hunt for Bin Laden will come out. Frontline has good documentary about the return of the Taliban. The documentary covers what is going on in the Tribal areas and were Bin Laden might be. watch it. Snakecharmer, out.

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 12:02 p.m. CST

    I'm glad that...

    by Knoll

    ...the Pakistani Prime Minister of Pakistan is a Pakistani, as opposed to being any other sort because that would be rather odd. I don't think the reason the American Government can't kill Bin Laden is due to fallout in Pakistan stands up: if you can invade Iraq, I don't think fallout is the main thing stopping you. If they seriously wanted to get the mastermind behind 9/11, they would have got him by now. It's strange how they don't mention it much, they must have something else on their minds. By the way I haven't seen this film or Super Size Me, so take it for what it's worth.

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Those problems are not the West's concern?!?

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    Then where do we get all of our oil from? Sadly, the problems in the Middle East ARE the West's concerns. Every time there is conflict, the price of gasoline goes up. During the Cold War, the Middle East sat upon the border of a bipolar world. If the oil producing nations threw their lot in with the Soviets, then it was a certain threat to democracy. I could care less if the people choose to forsake basic rights and liberties in the name of Islamic law (which the act of doing so is, ironically, "democratic"). However, if they chose to embrace one totalitarian, imperialistic empire (Soviet Imperial Communism) over a nonimperialistic Democratic empire, then this would have been a threat to world democracy. Contrary to the lies told by Islam-o-fascists, the United States does not want to force anything but basic FREEDOM of CHOICE (in government) in the region. This is a choice that has been withheld through government and cleric-backed religious and fanatical coercion. The United States wants to present both possible sides of government in which the fanatical leaders have only presented one side of (strict, theocratic governmental law). Historically, the Middle East has been filled with conflict -- long before the West "interfered." Women are robbed of basic rights and are viewed as less-than-men. Women have few rights in such theocracies. Why? Does Islam teach this -- or is it just the practice of tyrannic governments? Non-Muslims are persecuted in theory, rhetoric and action. Basic freedoms of speech, press and expression are strictly forbidden. Why is this not the West's concern? Why does the Muslim world portray world events as if it were "us against them" -- when they cannot even solve their own regional issues? The radical terrorists like Osama bin Laden have made fascist-militant Islam into a world wide problem. Regardless of whether or not they think that this caused by Western influence, the fact remains that violent fanatical radicals control much of the propaganda in the region. That is why over 30% of the entire Muslim world believed that the acts of 9/11 were completely justifiable! That is why Palestinians were celebrating in the streets following those evil acts. That is why conspiracy theories are presented as "fact" in elementary school textbooks. Until something changes internally and basic freedoms are offered to the citizens of such nations, the theocracies of the Middle East will NEVER garner the respect of the civilized Western world. Until a man can stand up and denounce his government and religion without fearing violent repricussions from his government and religion, then such a government and religion is worthless. The followers become mindless robots who are told exactly how to think -- even in matters of personal liberty. Until that changes, that region will continue to live in darkness.

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 3:29 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    You said: "PS: Suicide is a sin in Islam FYI... Once again, you attempt to tell me how my religion operates.... But this once more is a ploy of those that want control. In this system, it is the West that will tell Muslims want sort of Islam is acceptable." DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THIS CRAP? If America really wanted to forcefully change your beliefs, don't you think we would have done so in the 1940s or 50s? The Middle East was still a mess back then. Instead, America wants the nations in the Middle East to understand BOTH CHOICES. The United States has historically believed that if the Middle East tastes even a little bit of freedom (without fearing persecution or a clamp down by fanatics in government who proclaim the dominance of Islamic law), then they would CHOOSE FREEDOM instead of forced oppression. Right now, what would happen if an Arab woman stood up in Mecca and declared that Mohammed was a false prophet? SHE WOULD BE KILLED. The government authorities would turn their backs too. How is this NOT a problem? If a person questioned the existence of "Allah" -- he would be killed! How is this NOT a problem? If this is how the Middle East is currently administered, then why should we expect change? Until basic human rights are guaranteed without fear from the Church or State, then the Middle East will continue to live in a 21st Century equivalent of the "Dark Ages."

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 3:39 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks, if "Suicide is a sin in Islam FYI," then...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...why are there so many suicide bombers? Ouch. Yes, America has its own problems. But when I watch the news on the BBC and see all of the oppression in the Islamic nations, I am so thankful to live in the West. I don't have to fear any violent repercussions of questioning the virtues or authenticity of a religion or religious law. I don't have to watch my wife treated like a second class citizen just because she is a woman. Yes, America has had its share of problems (as has the UK and other western powers), but it has identified them and is working through them. The nations of Islamic law? They are actually fighting change. They also blame their problems on everyone else. That is the difference. So until you can stand up in your mosque and question the virtues of Islam without fearing death -- then politely refrain from talking about America's problems with health care, social security and education. It is quite hypocritical and a terrible defense for Islamic governmental opression.

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Too bad...

    by kirttrik

    I was...WAS....actually looking forward to this. Not no more I reckon!

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 7:10 p.m. CST

    lol, still not YOUR problem.....

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    You still cannot accept a position where the West should butt out of territories that they have no dominion over. Still you are claiming to have even more knowledge of Islam than a Muslim. And still you presume to know that the Middle East wants. I see that you want don't want others talking about the massive problems of the US. Then please don't be a hypocrite and explore the problems of the Middle East and supposedly problems of Islam. Perhaps I could even understand if you spread some of this insight into the atrocities of Israel. Yet your constant glossing over and excuses for them proves that your mandate is the attack Islam.... It is not concern over civil rights or democracy.. If it where I would hear your passion against Israel... This conversation has hit an impasse. Your focus solely on Islam reveals your hatred towards the religion. So keep on with the crazy extremist rants about women rights, suicide bombers, how it is a religion of hatred. Your tired rhetoric just serves to highlight your bigotry.

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 8:16 p.m. CST

    Not OUR problem...?!?

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    How are planes that hijacked by militant Muslim fundamentalists NOT our problem? How are US Embassies in Africa that are blown up NOT our problem? How is a radical Islamic plot to destroy the Golden Gate Bridge NOT our problem? How was the radical Islamic attempt at destroying the World Trade Center by truck bomb NOT our problem? How was the radical Islamic attempt to destroy a Pan-Am passenger jet over Lockerby, Scotland NOT our problem? How was the London Subway bombings NOT our problem? How was the radical Islamic bombing of a German nightclub (full of Americans) in 1987 NOT our problem? How was the hijacking of multiple American passenger jets during the 1980s NOT our problem? How was the Iranian hostage crisis of 1978-1980 NOT our problem? How was the kidnapping and execution of Americans between 1981 until now NOT our problem? How was the radical Islamic hijacking of a Greek cruise ship (and the killing of a crippled American) in the Med Sea NOT our problem? How is the control of the majority of world's oil supply NOT our problem? How is the possibility of nuclear bombs in the hands of wacko Muslim fundamentalist-extremists (who call America the "Great Satan" who will burn) NOT our problem? This list could go on and on. Do you see how SILLY your argument is?!? How come that Muslim fundamentalists protest the LACK OF INVOLVEMENT of the United States in regard to the Israeli-Palestinians issues? How would you like it if we told Muslims to "shut the Hell up" because Israel is "not your problem?" The United States recognizes the right of Israel to exist. Suddenly, the wrath of ignorant Muslim terrorist is thrust upon this nation!!! I have NEVER said that "Islam is a religion of hatred" (you are a LIAR for even claiming that). I simply said that there is a VAST PROBLEM with the radical fundamentalists who control 98% of the Middle East. You cannot deny that there is a problem in the Middle East (if you did, you would continue to show yourself a LIAR). You simply say that it is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Yet planes continue to fly, bombs continue to burst, and plans are still made to destroy "the Great Satan" (America). And still, 30% of Muslims worldwide somehow feel that such actions are justifiable!!! And all you do is complain about American problems. Do you see how silly your argument is? It appears to me that YOU are the one who highlights YOUR bigotry. The way you describe America, you might think that it is almost as evil as those Muslims who tried to conquer Europe! Oddly enough, America only cares that the people of the Islamic world were allowed to make up their own minds in regard to religion, free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of governmental choice, gender equality, religious equality, etc... You're right -- it is a Muslim problem. But this has NEVER been dealt with by the Muslim rulers or clerics. In fact, they don't WANT to change. But we'll never know if the people living under the shadow of Islamic oppression want to change. A binding vote would be ILLEGAL, and those working in the vote would be killed. * sigh *

  • Jan. 24, 2008, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Let me ask you, Darfur...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    Do YOU think that the events of 9/11 were justifiable in any way? My opinion: If we find a nation that sponsors or harbors terrorists who happens to strike the United States through such an act of war again, I say we NUKE THE HELL out of them!!! Osama bin Laden is not a hero. He is a sick, madman who deserves to be rotting in a jail for at least 130,000 years (100 years for every life killed at the WTC). He is a coward who ranks up there with Hitler as the most disgusting human beings who ever lived. BTW, you don't need to answer by attacking America, Americans, or American policy. Just answer the damn question: Do you think that 9/11 was justifiable in any way?

  • Jan. 25, 2008, 2:01 a.m. CST

    FIRST!

    by FlyinHawaiian

    So close.

  • Jan. 25, 2008, 2:05 a.m. CST

    ccchhhrrriiisssm

    by FlyinHawaiian

    We've made it our problem, don't you understand? I suppose everything all over the world is America's problem, right?

  • Jan. 25, 2008, 8:05 a.m. CST

    Getting More Upset, But STILL NOT Getting it!

    by DarfurOnTheRocks

    Your feeble attempt of assuming a moral justification just does not cut it because of the many instances where elements of the West do not do anything. So let us agree that morality has nothing to do with it. Otherwise, the US would attack Israel, Pakistan, Egypt, Kenya, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and close down GITMO, and try these individuals under the rule of law and SHOW evidence.... 9/11 is in no way justifiable. But the US government as STILL not provided proof that would stand up in a court of law pinning all of this mess on a PARTICULAR NATION! You want to use 9/11 as a justification to do anything in the Middle East. Mate, you are play fast and loose with numbers and that is sad. Wallow in your ignorance. 100,000 Iraqi civilians are dead now.... Isn't that enough payback for 9/11 attacks which they had no part in? My guess that it isn't for you. 100,000 mate and counting..... Keep on spreading your lies though.

  • Jan. 25, 2008, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Darfur...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    This is exactly how I thought that you would reply. Let me make this clear: I don't think that the war in Iraq was justified. The evidence just wasn't present, even if it appeared so at the time. The Bush Administration should have viewed the evidence far more critically and responsibly. However, this is NOT an attack on either Islam or the Bush Administration. The Iraq War was not "payback" for 9/11 (and it ridiculous to imply such a notion). The bottom line -- in which so many Muslims are willing to place fingers in their ears -- is the fact that EVEN IF YOU REMOVE THE WESTERN NATIONS from the equation, the Middle East is still a cesspool of problems! Why? Why are there such terrible living conditions in wealthy, oil producing nations? Why are women treated like 2nd class citizens? Why is freedom of speech, press and religion CRUSHED by fanatical religious leaders? You can claim ALL DAY LONG that these citizens have the government that they want, but we ALL KNOW that this is a LIE! The people in the Middle East have NEVER been presented any other choices of government, personal liberties or social policy. To even suggest changes that supposedly go against the Quran would warrant EXECUTION in many places! The mess in the Middle East goes much deeper than supposed desires of the United States, the United Kingdom, etc... -- or even Israel. The problems in the Muslim nations are that they are MUSLIM nations. The people should be allowed to MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS. However, if a Muslim man were to question Islam publicly, he is executed. A non-Muslim must pay taxes (and still faces persecution). A woman who doesn't want to wear a robe is killed. Honor killing appears "justifiable" by 75% of the population (according to Gallup and Al-Jazeera). A cartoon that depicts Mohammed as a questionable character results in radical protests where the masses yell "DEATH!" and "JIHAD!" Over a damn cartoon of a dead "prophet?!?" This is not a "free" society, and the religious clerics who rule that world want it to remain this way. These clerics and government workers treat freedom as if it were a bad thing. Until that changes, then this part of the world will remain a painfully infected hemmoroid of the world. No matter how much you cover it up, it will still be painful. It will still involve the rest of the world, because the world is getting smaller every day.

  • Jan. 25, 2008, 12:15 p.m. CST

    DarfurOnTheRocks...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    I hope that you realize that your view that everything is fine in paradise (Muslim nations) is a delusion. Please take your blinders off and remove the fingers from your ears, and you may hear the voices secretly crying out for freedom. Why are you afraid of giving freedom to those who want it? Is it against "Islam" to allow people to have such freedom?

  • Jan. 25, 2008, 6:31 p.m. CST

    How about this...

    by drJames

    I'll just keep on thinking that most muslims wouldn't hesitate to send me packing to the afterlife at any chance cuz i'm a christian.<br>If you think that makes me a racist then you'll just have to deal with it. I'm not changing my mind 'til I see an non-oppressed and peaceful middle east.<br>In other words...I'll probably never change my mind.

  • Jan. 26, 2008, 2:09 p.m. CST

    LOL@ Darfur

    by Doc_Hudson

    Mainly because he brought up Hitler,and never reputed the fact the arabs were behind him. Sad but true....and that being said,..I like the Arabs I've met,but you can't get close to them personally as they always see you as an outsider...unless you convert.To quote Lawrence,...they can be a "backwards,..silly people" when they show that side of themselves,....educated or not.Women can't drive cars,must hide heads,no alcohol,bitch about who was related to Muhammad(Shia/Sunni argument),..I mean come on...to be the newest mainstream religon....it sure is the least tolerant for human progression.And TBH,...if Darfu is so hip on telling us what we are getting wrong....I bet dollars to doughnuts that if he said a few things he said here in some mosques in Saudi,Pakistan,Iran,Iraq,...etc,...etc...they'd stone him(and not the good way). I hope all this changes in time,..but why should it..all parties have a vested interest in having boogymen.

  • Jan. 27, 2008, 2:35 a.m. CST

    People are idiots

    by Series7

    If you ever mention Supersizeme to someone who does watch movies. They'll tell you how good of a documentary it is. It was the laziest bull shit fake documentary ever made. I sat through that whole movie only to be told that eating a lot of McD is bad for you. GOOD job. Plus when they showed him eating at the arches he bought like $12 worth of food??? What normal person fucking eats $12 worth of food at McD's in one sitting? At least Micheal Moore tries to be informative even if he lies. Morgan is like look at me I am doing something CRAZZZYY!!, unfortunately America looks. You learn more in the first 2 minutes of the Eric Schlosser interview then that whole movie. Too bad there movies where backward, Suprlock should have made a dumb comedy about a guy who is dared to only it McD's for a month, and Fast food Nation should have been a documentary. 30 days is retarded as well.

  • April 7, 2008, 11:44 p.m. CST

    Have an open mind for God's sake

    by Rayholio

    I just went to a press screening of this movie today and am saddened by so many narrow minded comments. I was truly surprised by this film's ability to address complicated world dilemmas with such humanity. Sure, there are some very over-the-top moments and unnecessarily flashy sequences that come accross as amateurish and perhaps arrogant... But overall this is a film with real heart and refreshing optimism. Isn't it time that more people around the world have honest dialogs about the horrendous conditions so many of us face? I don't believe that this movie demonizes the US, but rather criticizes its foreign policy, a policy that has created dangerous relationships between those in positions of power who ultimately succumb to greed and deprive their people of the basic needs to achieve any level of success (let alone survival). The film may lead people to believe its a comedy about a white man in the muslim world attempting to smoke out a wanted man, but really its about one man's quest to connect to the roots of human problems and vulnerabilities for the sake of educating his own people. Most importantly, this movie does a real service to the public by putting these complex ambitions in digestible, accessible terms. Have an open mind when viewing this one, and see if you don't walk away with a slightly freshened perspective. PS- if the reviewer thinks a shot of an entirely covered woman in water shown AFTER her baby's birth is gratuitous, so help him.