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AICN COMICS Q & @ PART TWO with Marvel EIC Joe Quesada on SPIDER-MAN Brand New Day!
Hey folks, Ambush Bug here from AICN Comics. Last Friday we brought you the first part of our “Brand New Day” interview with the people behind the new direction and new status quo for AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. The book will now be released thrice monthly with rotating creative teams and focus more on Spidey’s supporting cast and what made Spidey one of the most popular comic book icons ever. The steps made to enact this change, though, has been somewhat controversial. If the Talkbacks from last week’s interview with writer Dan Slott and editor Steve Wacker are any indication of the overall mood of fandom, there are quite a few people up in arms about the whole thing. Marvel Editor in Chief Joe Quesada agreed to answer some burning questions on the hearts and minds of @$$holes and Talkbackers alike. Let’s see what he has to say…
@$$Holes (@):You've made your feelings about Spider-Man well known regarding the changes that come about in "Brand New Day." How do you balance your own personal preferences and beliefs towards a specific project or character with what the writer or the public asks for?
Joe Quesada (JQ): Well, for starters you would have to understand how I manage here at Marvel. I have a lot of personal beliefs about things, some have been implemented, some have not. No decision here at Marvel is made in a vacuum and I certainly have never made a decision here and pulled rank or thrown my weight around demanding that it’s my way or the highway, that’s simply not how I work.To be clear, the idea that Peter Parker is a better character and that Spider-man stories are much more compelling with a single Peter is not something unique to me. There are many, many people here at Marvel, past and present who know this to be true.
So, like any idea we have here at Marvel, the balancing act is very simple, we ask each other questions, we look at the pros and cons of every idea and then we decide if it’s the best thing to do.
Also, while I completely understand that there will be some that don’t like this decision, it’s not something that was a surprise to us. We knew full well what the reaction was going to be. That said, we have to go by what we feel will actually provide our fans with the best stories possible and with nearly 100% accuracy, these are the things that fandom tends to be the most hostile about. I completely understand of course as all of these things offer change and it’s change that stirs the fanbase, but it’s also change that keeps the universe fresh and our fans engaged.
@: There seems to be something of a conflict between the two phrases "stories that matter" and "illusion of change." The balancing act between the two must be a difficult thing to pull off since one promotes change in order to make a story resonate and be worthwhile, while the other maintains a status quo so that the character doesn't stray too far as to be unrecognizable. How do you walk this tightrope?
JQ: It’s a tough thing to do, but it’s easier to do when you have smart people around you. I have an incredible staff here at Marvel and we discuss things such as this all the time. We get pitched crazy ideas with our characters all the time, but you do have to be cautious. What we try to do is to make sure that the things we do don’t put us in a place where it does damage to a character in a way that is next to impossible to repair. I don’t mind straying from the original concept at times, that’s the sort of thing that makes for a fun storyline, it’s when you go to that place and then find that there’s no good way back that is ultimately damaging. A loose example I’ve used in the past is giving Daredevil back his sight. While that would make for a fun few issues, if we did it in a way that was impossible to retcon, I think people would get quite bored of DD stories after a short while and we would have to consider the character broken.
@: I've noticed recently a lot of creative input coming from editorial, specifically the EIC, on the direction of Spider-Man's ongoing adventures. Have you ever thought of writing the book yourself (other than the last few pages of ASM #545, that is)?
JQ: Not quite sure where you’re getting that from, but Editorial has had no more or less input on this current Brand New Day Spider-Man run than any other time. The only difference is that the book is being written by a team of writers, much like a TV show. So, a lot of the big planning for the book happens in a writers room with the editors present. As matter of fact, I wasn’t even at the last Spider-Man summit if you want to speak about me specifically.Also, every year we have two to three huge Creative Summits in which creators and editors go off site to work on the big universe wide plans of the Marvel U, but that’s been happening here for years and years.
Regardless, I don’t think I’ve had more or less of a hand in Spider-Man or any other character now than I have in the past. The thing to remember is that even though I wear the EIC hat, I was a creator long before ever doing this job, so I have always been an active participant in the stuff we do and I come to this job with a different skill set and experiences. I think that that’s probably the most worthwhile thing I’ve brought to Marvel in my position along with the fact that I also know what it’s like to be on the other side of the table.
As for writing a story myself, I honestly don’t know, I’ve never thought about writing a Spidey story.
@: You've ventured into creator owned territory with ASH. Can you describe the differences you've noticed working with a character you've created versus handling a character with forty years of history? How much consideration to continuity do you assign to a specific character with a longterm standing in the public eye?
JQ: Of course you do have to keep an eye on history, but you always do better with longstanding characters if you move forward rather than spending too much time looking back. I firmly believe that when the industry as a whole does too much looking back, it hurts itself. What ends up happening is that you spend way too much writing love letters to the creators who inspired you and not enough attention to the audience that wants stories that belong to them.
There are certainly times when you use continuity as a touchstone and that’s the advantage that long standing characters have. These touchstones can be used as marketing tools to the long time reader, but you have to be careful because if you go back to the well too often you can end up alienating the newer ones. There are certain ways to appease both types of readers, but you have to remain ever cognizant of it. Over the years here at Marvel we’ve referred to it as getting tangled up in our own super hero underwear. It’s something that we point out to one another when we get too mired in our own continuity and start writing too many stories that have nothing to do with the here and now.
@: Going forward with "Brand New Day", how will the writers be dealing with the fact that Peter and Mary Jane are now the kind of people who are willing to quite literally make a deal with the devil? Will the ramifications of that deal have long-term affects on the title going forward, with Peter and Mary Jane trying to cope with it, or was it essentially just a mechanism to get the characters back where you felt they needed to be?
JQ: First, I think you have to look at the circumstances and how this decision we made by Peter and MJ.Let’s take Aunt May off the table for a second, lets just say it was some random woman.
Mephisto pops up and says to Peter, “See that woman over there, she was hit accidentally by a bullet that was intended for you because you unmasked yourself and someone wanted you dead. Look, I know you don’t know her, a perfect stranger, but I can save her life, I just want your marriage.”
How would we all feel if Peter said, “nah, sorry, let her die.”
While every story is a mechanism to get a character from point A to point B, I think this offered an interesting conundrum and put Peter and MJ in a no win situation but in a situation in which they valued human life above themselves and isn’t that the heroic thing to do? Also, in a lot of ways, this is no different than the fact that Peter allowed the robber to walk free only to find that that self same robber kills his Uncle Ben. Aunt May was shot because of his choosing to unmask in Civil War, wouldn’t one think that the memory of his making a mistake that led to the death of his dear uncle would be fresh in his mind? Would he make the same mistake twice, only this time knowingly?
Moving forward, I don’t think this will be an issue for the two characters as they remember nothing of the deal and we’re going to be spending more time looking forward than back.
@: Quite honestly, if people don't like the changes made to Spider-Man or to the Avengers or the Hulk or whoever, the ultimate way to communicate that distaste is through sales. Under your tenure there have been some pretty dramatic changes to the status quo to many of Marvel's top tier characters. Yet despite the opinions for or against a status quo shaking decision made in any of these titles, sales still seem to be steady and usually (and more accurately) skyrocket. How do you explain this? Are comic book fans (and reviewers) just a bunch of whiners who like to complain no matter what the change?
JQ: LOL! No, that’s not it at all. I love the fact that people are passionate enough about what we do, it means we’re engaging them and ultimately entertaining them. Where I scratch my head is when some accuse us or me personally of wanting to destroy the Marvel U. I mean, lets think about this for a second, why would I want to do that? My sole goal is to keep our fans entertained, to provide them with the best comics experience imaginable. That’s all, nothing more, nothing less.
The one thing to realize is that when you think about every hallmark, watershed moment in the history of comics, whether that be at Marvel, DC or anywhere, they all have one thing in common.
Change to the status quo.
Sometimes that change can be a back to basics, but it’s change nevertheless. Back in the day, DC received tons of fan backlash over Crisis, but it rejuvenated the DCU and brought it back to a place where it was exciting for their readership. I should know, I was a huge fan of DC at the time. But that’s just one example, I’m sure everyone has a favorite comic story. I defy anyone to look at their favorite comic story of all time and tell me that there wasn’t something that happened in that story that didn’t change everything as they knew it. But, it’s that very change that makes these types of stories and events so controversial. And look, I’m a fan, so I get it, I’ve been there, change is scary. While as a fan I love the status quo of the books I read, when I look at it clearly, it’s the shifts to the status quo that are what keep me coming back for more.
@: We've been told the deal with Mephisto simply made everyone forget Peter is Spider-Man. How does people forgetting who Spidey is bring Harry Osborn back from the dead? How does it eliminate organic shooters and other physical powers, restoring him to just mechanical shooters and spidey-sense? Are we going to see any of this addressed in ASM, or is it best to just accept the new status quo, not think about it, and go from there?
JQ: Read AMAZING SPIDER-MAN!@: Can you tell us how this new status quo is going to affect Spider-Man's status on the New Avengers? Do you encourage or require collaboration between the staff of two books that share the same character?
JQ: Yes, absolutely we encourage that and keep in mind that now Spidey and the Avengers are all in the same editorial office, so this type of coordination and collaboration will naturally happen.
First off, it’s all one office, so there shouldn’t be a whole lot of coordination problems. I’m genuinely quite baffled by people who are asking if this means that Spidey can’t be a member of the New Avengers, though. It’s all fodder for stories. In point of fact, at one point Brian had written a scene in NEW AVENGERS dealing with the fact that the other Avengers suddenly didn’t know who Spidey was anymore, but the delays on “One More Day” caused us to scrap it. Maybe if Brian is cool with it, I could dig it out and we could give it to AICN as a special bonus or something.
@: The unmasking storyline of the last 18 months was supposed to be a huge deal for the character, but in the end it was only a big deal because of the media hubbub. Now it's clear it was never intended to last, since "Brand New Day" has been in the works for about as long.
This, in conjunction with so many other big changes over the last two or three years with Spidey, leads one to wonder how permanent his new status is. Can you assure us the new status quo will remain in place long term, or is it just as disposable as everything else we've seen recently?
JQ: I can assure you it’s going to remain in place for the long term.
@: Comic book fans can be a pretty fickle crowd and aren't afraid to let you know when they aren't happy (at least on the internet, that is). How do you manage working with characters that mean so much to so many, knowing that you're bound to piss off someone with ANY decision you make?
JQ: My first week as EIC, Tom Defalco (EIC from 1987-1994) stopped into my office and gave me the best advice I’ve ever had with respect to this position at Marvel. He said, “Joe, you’ll need to have a broad back for this job.” And he’s absolutely right, when I took this position I realized that from day one there would be a big target painted on my back, but that’s what comes with the territory.
What I go through here is no different than any EIC before me, the only big difference is that I’m the first to really have the world of the internet as a forum to work with and to contend with. While the net was certainly around before I took this job, it wasn’t as widespread in households as it is today.
As for how do we manage to work with these characters? There’s really only one way, you have to do what you feel will make for the best stories possible. If you solely worry about fan reaction on the net or otherwise, before you know it, you may look around and wonder why your books aren’t selling.
@: I know you guys have been planning "Brand New Day" for a long time, and the delays with "One More Day" meant you could get even farther ahead on stories and art, which can help guarantee you meet your shipping schedule. I've heard you're several months ahead on everything, which is refreshing to hear. Are you viewing the team approach as an experiment for a year or so, to be reassessed later? If not, how do you go about keeping the quality of the writers and artists up to snuff long-term over the next four or five years?
JQ: That’s a great question. This is a huge experiment for us, while big props go out to DC for their handling of 52 and Countdown, the way this is different is that those are finite stories whereas Amazing Spider-Man is not. Ultimately, this thrice-monthly experiment is really exciting from that standpoint, because we’re not entering this with a date in mind where we can stop and take a breather. In the end, we’ll have to wait and see what happens, it’s not just about sales, it’s also man hours and manpower and possible exhaustion that we’ll have to evaluate down the road.
As far as talent goes, I think that if we rotate our teams properly, we’ll be able to keep the freshness and excitement up. If we don’t then I can simply fire Editor Steve Wacker and pass the blame onto him ;-)
That said, even if we’re able to keep the creators from feeling overwhelmed, which currently seems to be going well, it’s our staff that will always feel the pressure because they’re not taking issues off, they have to keep on plugging away.
Like I said, it’s going to be interesting to see where it takes us, my gut tells me it’s going to be completely AMAZING!
@: Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions.
JQ: Thank you!
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Jan 18, 2008 10:05:26 AM CST
Well, I for one will be boycotting Amazing Spider-Man.
by rev_skarekroe
Actually, I haven't bought in issue of that book in ages and ages. But now I'm going to CALL it a boycott!
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Wow what a disappointing interview, half of it is rehashed from the one over on comicbookresources. And come on AICN, that was sooooo week in questions. I mean look at Marvel's stock, its been dropping since the issue came back, Marvel needs to get rid of Quesada, let him go back to the art side of things. Oh, and you didn't call him on pulling his weight around as editor, he's been doing that this whole time, have you seen any of the Stracynski interviews?
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Doesn't pay a lick of attention to what reviewers and fans say, does he?
No sir, I will not be reading AMAZING SPIDER MAN. Or seeing the Iron Man movie, or buying any product associated with Marvel, period.
You've pissed in this pool far too often. I'm going to do my best to make sure you understand the consequences. -
What a wanker.
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It's all about what he wants! He doesn't give a damn about Peter or the Spider-Man mythos. It was his idea for Gwen Stacy to have Norman Osborne's illigitimate children. And guess what, of all the things that was undone by One More Day/Brand New Day - marriage, organic webshooters, unmasking, etc. - that abomination was the one thing that remained in tact. Straczynski had a storyline that would have vanquished that debacle (which Quesada pushed him to write), but Quesada wouldn't have it. Quesada's scum.
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you can paint a pretty picture on it as much as you like, but starting over and wiping clean the entire story over the last months is just pain foolish. I was getting into Spidey's new powers, it was nice to finally see him actually having the powers of a Spider rather then the powers of about every other fucking bug on the planet. I never understood why he never got organic webbing in the first place, since webbing is basically what really defines a spider. All his other powers are really anything from a grasshopper for jumping, an ant for strength (since ants can lift 2x their body weight, just take this onto a human level), sticking to walls ANY insect can do, and the spider sense is really the only thing left hanging (no pun intended). If they left the story with his new powers intact I wouldn't be so irritated with this "reboot". It showed the series was advancing and finally making changes to the character. Now it's just back to square one. count me out.
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Quesada seems to think everyone is pissed off at the marriage being ended, I mean I liked the marriage, but fine I can understand wanting it gone. He doesn't understand people are pissed because he had SPIDERMAN make a deal with the DEVIL. Maybe he'll learn when his sales go down as well as his stock. The one person he quotes in agreement of them not getting married is Sam Raimi, and I mean thats nice you have someone with that opinion, but we all saw how badly he screwed up Spider-man 3.
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I know AICN isnt a hard hitting journalistic site and likes to keep on good terms with studios and the like but I cant help but feel JQ got off lightly there. A neat chance to disseminate marketing hyperbole without having to lay out specific explanations for destroying any one element of years worth of storytelling. Well I hope loads of next generation readers take advantage of this great jumping on point! Finally stories that will belong to them! Theres no chance of any GGoblin rehashs now! Oh no!
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So what the Idiot in Chief is saying is that whenever the Devil wants to use Spidey for some nefarious means, all he has to do is threaten some innocent person.
Gabbo will tell Spidey what to do. -
He makes tough decisions to improve the characters long-term, and he isn't afraid of pissing people off in the meantime. OMD could have been done better but the end result is great for the character and the book is currently — while not perfect — certainly more fun than it has been in over a decade.
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Everything is open to change whenever they want to. I mean, they do these big stories just for the media (Superman dies, Spiderman unmasked, Captain America dies) but NONE of them carry any weight BECAUSE they go back on their word. All the time. So for casual fans like me, I just laugh and go back to reading comics where the impact of every issue is important, where nothing is retconned or taken for granted.
They don't realize that they lose tons of fans by doing these marketing stunts. But hey, I don't run Marvel, so what do I know? -
Way to have Spider-Man take responsibility for his actions. Him unmasking was stupid. It was his mistake, and he should have to deal with that. But nooooo, now he can just make a deal and erase it all. Way to take responsibility...
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this is as bad as the clone story.
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any of you complainers write more interesting Spidey stories. It's sometimes good to shake things up. Give the writers a chance, this might be some compelling stuff.
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He has done amazing things at Marvel but to do this to Spidey and 11 years of me reading Spidey. hurts.
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because of the sound of cock sucking
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Spiderfaust, Spiderfaust,
Does whatever literature can,
Spins a story, any size.... -
Not the curvy comic book version.
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Jan 18, 2008 11:08:13 AM CST
MrGonev5 I could easily write ten better stories to dissolve the
by s.hafferty
And half of them have already been posted online by competant writers, they are tons of easy ways to ax the marriage without having him DEAL WITH THE DEVIL. You should read his interview on comicbookresources, its worse, when asked why all these things happened, he says its magic, we don't have to explain it. Total lack of respect for fans and the genre itself, way to go Quesada.
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I think I have more comics stored on my hard drive and DVDs than it would be possible for me to even read in my lifetime.
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Marvel is a publicly traded company and needs to make money in order to keep the stock afloat and investors happy. Big events used to sell books and I was one of those speculators buying multiple copies and betting on something long term that I really never got around to. That said, the unmasking was one of those last big things to sell an extra issue, grab some media and then there's status quo one way or another its gotta go back to the way it was and cycle all over again. Thirty years of Spidey has shown my the best and worst of Marvel writing and hopefully we're on the uptick again 'cuz just when you think another "clone saga" is over here you go all over again.
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Jan 18, 2008 11:18:23 AM CST
Contrary to what Quesada said he is trying to destroy the Marvel
by reel american hero
Long time fans should remember this. Remember back when it actually felt like a shared universe between characters. Things used to flow even if they didn't neccessarily have to. I recall an issue of X-Men a while back that was about new member Cecilia Reyes adjusting to her new life as a superhero, and she tries to go back to her old job as a doctor, and Daredevil shows up and needs some medical help from an injury, and helps her on her way.
And, you didn't have to buy the issue of Daredevil that month at all, but if you had you would have seen the battle in which he got his injury. Nothing earth shattering, but if you just happened to read both books, you would see that all this stuff was happening, at the same time. These days, a similar story could happen, with Daredevil or somebody going to someone else from another book for medical attention, but there would be no set up for it at all in his book at all, as every book seems to be it's own separate entity.
And this especially hurts Marvel when it comes to their propensity for big multi book crossover events, where each writer is off doing their own thing and not bouncing off each other. You didn't have to read every book that Marvel put out back then, but if you did read a good amount, you would see the Universe that makes up the Marvel Universe. Today's Marvel is just Marvel Trade Paperbacks monthly. To me the 'Universe' was destroyed a few years ago when Joey Q took over. -
This series has been hurt so much worse then the clone saga ever could.
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Besides which with the big everybody is worried about who is a skrull issue, there is no WAY that the new avengers would now allow Spider-man on their team if none of them no his identity or seen his face. They are already paranoid enough with each other. Quesada says it doesn't need to be explained, what a prick.
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I agree. Theres TONS of better ways they could have done this. Yea, I'm realizing more and more that it seems Marvel has a lack of respect for its fan. I collected comics for many years(mostly marvel) but all these giant company wide crossovers have made me quit collecting, Marvel anyway. I'm just tired of nothing ever sticking. They calim they want change, but nothing ever changes.
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...was interesting but it really illustrates a lot of the problems I have with modern comics.If you say that modern comics are too dark, too heavy, overly serious then you're dismissed as an old school fanboy, as stupid, etc.If you say that modern comics don't adhere to logic or good storytelling, as it's considered in any genre or medium, then you're told that comics are for kids.Both arguments are ridiculous here.The example Mr. Quesada uses, that if Mephisto presented Spidey and Mary Jane with an offer, to take their marriage, in exchange for saving a woman killed because Spidey revealed his secret ID says too much about comic book storytelling today. If you say that you want the characters to uphold values and practice true heroism, you're told that this is the hip, edgy, mature 21st century, where comics are adult and for grown ups. Yet, the true realities of the grown up world are always ignored.Almost everybody in a high risk profession has caused someone's death. Physicians, military, law enforcement, criminal justice, fire fighters, resuce, etc. I'm sure many of these professionals feel terrible, but they know that it will happen again. A good general knows that even his best decisions will get some of his troops killed, ya know?Also, Spider-Man's been around as superhero and Peter Parker is supposed to be highly intelligent and educated. He's read FAUST. He's read THE PORTRAIT OF DORIAN GRAY. He's seen the EXORCIST. If nothing else, he knows Dr. Strange, the Fantastic Four and the Silver Surfer, Ghost Rider, etc., all who can tell him what kind of being he's dealing with.It's like poor Brad Renfro and heroin. Who doesn't know what heroin and demons do?That said, Joe, I suggest that Johnny Blaze and Daimon Hellstrom seek Pete out to guide him through the nightmare ahead, that would surely be coming...if good storytelling were the goal here.
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Jan 18, 2008 11:29:00 AM CST
They should have made it MJ's life that was in the balance
by steve rogers
That way Pete is choosing to save the woman he loves, rather than May who - while she's great and all - has had a damn good innings anyway. The way they presented it just made Pete look like a dweeb martyred over his own guilt. If it had been MJ who got shot it would've been MUCH better. "I love her and I know we're meant to be together... so I'll do it".
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GROUNDHOG DAY: Pete slowly regains the memory of his love and marriage to Mary Jane, who will have nothing to do with him. Ever. Each day, he causes Aunt May's death in a different way, only to wake up and have it happen all over again.
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Jan 18, 2008 11:42:33 AM CST
why would not being married change the revealing of his ID
by george newman
why would not being married change the revealing of his ID in CIVIL WAR?
And if it did change his decision, is there some kind of alternate CIVIL WAR story in which Spidey never goes to IronMan's side? Is that the current Marvel U now? -
Shouldn't this retCon turn him not into Peter Parker:Single Spider-man, but instead Peter Parker: Joe-Dogwalker ?
Why is he still spider-man if he never had the encouragement of MJ and their marriage? -
I think Joe Quesada is a Skrull from outerspace who is here to destroy the Marvel universe through terribly thought out ideas.
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Jan 18, 2008 12:24:26 PM CST
I wonder what it's like to lie to yourself that completely
by industrykiller!
I mean Quesada really is one pathetic bastard. This interview taught me he really doesn't have an argument for all of the disgusting horseshit character changes he's brought in his tenure and that they clearly think about them and whether they make any sense for about five minutes before just doing it anyway, narrative be damned. I love when he gets asked how this retcon thing will make any sense in the long run and he just says "Read Spider Man!" How fucking pathetic is that? I bet they answer like 2 of the 900 million story issues this brings up and then just forgets about the logic. That seems to be Quesada's modus operandi.
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I haven’t read a regular Spider-Man comic in years (preferring the Ultimate universe’s less cluttered version of the character), but I have been following what’s been going on and I have to say that Quesada seems to be out of touch with today’s pop culture. In an interview prior to BND he stated that one of the reasons that they didn’t just have Mary Jane and Peter divorce was because it would age the characters in the minds of readers? Say what? Has he not read a celebrity magazine or gossip website in the past 10 years? People get divorced all the time when they are still young. When Britney Spears first got divorced from K-Fed, were people saying how old this made her seem? No; they were thrilled that she finally cut him loose and could get back to being the pop star everybody loved (of course she then went insane, but no one's ever called her old). Same with Brad Pitt; when he divorced Jennifer Aniston, did Hollywood say, “Wow, a divorced man; I guess he can’t be a leading man anymore.” Again, no. I was rather indifferent to Mary Jane, but if Quesada had a problem with her, then have her leave in a realistic manner. After all that she’d been through in the past two years, would anyone be shocked that she left him for a more stable life? I know I wouldn’t, and not only would that have gotten rid of the “problem” but the whole Marvel universe would not be screwed up with 20 years of history reversed and people like Harry Osborne being brought back from the dead.
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Crap interview. Plus now I hate Aunt May. I'm getting the impression that Joe Q doesn't understand Spider-Man at all...
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Thing is though, how else could Spider Man have continued? By the end of Back in Black Peter was outed, a wanted felon and generally without a friend in the world (apart from MJ). It was a compelling story, but the deeper down the hole we went, the further away from the character we know and love we got. Retconning was about the only thing Marvel could really do for him! Peter Parker's secret identity is as much an integeral part of his character as Superman's ability to fly or Witchblade's semi nudity. Face facts-- there was just always going to be some kind of mindwipe trick that made everyone forget Peter was Spidey.
And all those people who are bitching about Peter and MJ making a pact with the devil-- he did it because he was given only two choices: Let May die because of his actions or sacrifice his marriage. If it was a choice between your mother's life or your spouse, which would it be? Really?
I don't really like it when comic books pull such credulous narrative turns like this because it just gives the medium a bad name. But through all the bitching, wailing and threat making here at AICN, not a one of you has been able to come up with a better idea to get Spider Man out of the mess he was in. -
Jan 18, 2008 12:45:07 PM CST
"I can assure you it’s going to remain in place for the long ter
by bluebottle
Uh-huh.
And I can assure you that sales of ASM are going to go into the toilet. -
Actually, if my mother was 96, had been through a dozen heart attacks, countless fits of shock and on more medication than pfizer produces in a year, I'd let her go. Aunt May, although very important to Peter, was a sickly, elderly woman. Mary Jane was the rock that Peter leaned on to make it through his shitty, tortured life. She was the one person he could talk to about how hard it was to be Spider-Man and the only one who really understood what he goes through leading a double life. What happened to May would surely hurt him and make him feel guilty, but in the end its not worth ending his marriage over. Especially not by making a deal with the devil.
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That May is old and in ill health isn't the point. If it were simply a case of May being in a coma due to natural causes, or circumstances that were not in any way attributable to his own actions, there is no way the Peter would make a deal with Mephisto. Everyone has completely missed the point of OMD! May was shot by someone who was trying to shoot Peter. Therefore Peter, being the compassionate character whose entire life has been defined by a similar tragedy with Uncle Ben, would naturally do anything- ANYTHING- to undo that mistake. Its got nothing to do with him clinging on to her obsessively-- he even acknowledges in OMD that if May were dying because of a heart attack or whatever, he would accept it. Think about it! There is no way Peter would ever let May die because of his mistakes, because of enemies he has made as Spider Man. The point I was trying to make was that if your mother -sick or no-- took a bullet and it was your fault, would you really let her die for the sake of your marriage?
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Lets see. There are many ways to end things, we have been coming up with some on this list, if you cared to read. Have Mary Jane need to get out of the strain of being married to Peter, and thus go into witness protection to get away from that life. Have Peter let Aunt May die, she already has once before anyway. Have Peter find a healer, plenty in the X-men, which Wolverine would have easily gotten him in touch with. May is then healed. Have Mary Jane leave him because she doesn't want to risk the same fate. Have professor X mind wipe the world of his identity. I'm not saying these a great, but 1 they are more beliavable and in line with the characters, and 2 you wouldn't anger friends with him Dealing with the Devil. All of these ideas are ten times better then what they did, and gosh that took me less then five minutes of thought.
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Mephisto set up his own failure in the dialogue. He says how their love is a one in a million thing, and all that stuff. If that were true, there would be no way in hell they would dissolve it. So the devil was wrong. Second you are missing the main point manicart, Peter is a Well-Educated man, no deal with the Devil ever is in favor of the person making the deal. Thus he wouldn't do it. There would be no way he could come ahead, no matter how obsessive he was being.
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Jan 18, 2008 1:26:23 PM CST
Yeah, somehow I just don't believe this sleazy used car salesman
by kryptonslastson
"Big changes!" "Long term remifications!" "Bold new direction!" This stuff will be flushed out of continuity soon enough. Mephisto will start showing up, investigation ensues, truth figured out, soul searching ensues, big fight, deal broken. Less than 5 years away, guaranteed. If anyone disagrees, other than Joey Q who is an idiot, you're sad and pathetic and very trusting in these jokers.
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... to be honest I think you'll find that any one of those ideas is really no better than Peter making a deal with Mephisto. Professor X altering everyone on Earth's mind? Cop out. May healed by Wolverine's blood after we've been kept hanging for a year? It's just too obvious and its a highly anti-climactic way to resolve that kind of a story. For all we know Wolverine and Professor X's powers don't work like that, and if they did, it would be boring. Every time somebody screwed up or got badly injured in the MU they'd just be off to see Xavier and Logan-- and that would be completely stupid. Look, I'm not trying to say that OMD was a stroke of genius, but nobody saw it coming. I don't feel entirely happy with it, but it was much better than any of those ideas you mentioned.
And Mephisto is not the Devil! He's an evil entity whose basic nature is lies and dceit. If he SAYS he also goes by the name of Satan he might be telling the truth but he might also be lying. Nowhere has it ever been said that Mephisto is 100% the real deal Devil. I wouldn't be surprsed if theres a story somewhere along the line where the real Satan shows up to bitchslap Mephisto for sullying his rep with comic book retcons. -
Aunt May has always put Peter's happiness above all else and for years tried to set him up with Mary Jane. When she finds out what happened (which is only a matter of time) she will be deeply disappointed in him. There is a difference between doing everything you can for someone and basically destroying your life for them. Do people really think someone like May will be happy that Peter gave up the love of his life for her, esp., since she has already lived her life and had her time with the love of her life?
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This doesn't deserve the free publicity. Man just like watching a train wreck. I guess you can't turn yourself a way. Bravo Marvel. You've done it again. What will be the next train wreck? Place your bets!
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but what he did for daredevil, spidey(bring in JMS), Captain america, Iron fist will always be amazing, then he takes away JMS from spidey and ruins spidey. ahhhh.
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that's what secret invasion is really about.
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Even though I didn't like the way the story was done, I can understand why it was done. Also, lets be honest here. What exactly are you supposed to do with a character who had been around longer than the people who are buying the books? Everybody is talking about how this goes against the core of who Spider-Man is, but he's been around for 40 plus years. Every once in a while you are going to have to shake things up especially if you want the character to be around for another 40 years. If you're going to play it safe all the time then you might as well cancel the title.
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they lost me a long time ago with the Stracynski crap. It's quite redundant in Comics that they try to do something revolutionary with a character, end up screwing it up, and then try to back track with some half baked idea (deal with the devil? c'mon). There are some roads that just aren't worth going down.
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Thank you so much for proving my point, that you don't read. I said get Wolverine to take him to the X-men, where they have several healers. And guess what, thats part of having a shared universe, especially when Peter is going to everyone he knows, he's on a team with Wolverine, so Wolverine would obviously have said hey take her up to the mansion. His identity thing, shouldn't have been put back in the bottle so quickly. But doing that, do what they did in Initiative, where the Scarlet Spiders thanked Peter and made the public doubt it was him all the time. Or have someone who is a friend, Daredevil, swing by in costume and he's there as Peter so people start to disassociate him with Spider-man. Oh and have you ever Read ANY Marvel books with Mephisto? He's the devil, he's one of a couple in charge of different sections of hell, but hey guess what, that makes him a Demon. So Spider-man making a deal with a Demon, who masquerades as the devil. Not to mention bringing Harry Osborn back to life. Have you read what they did with that. They say Peter remembers Harry having been the Green Goblin, but Harry has no memory of it. What the hell. And for all your bitching, no the idea placed above were smart and intelligent. And Peter would have at least gone to them in the course of the series, since he is friends with them all. So come up with a reason why the healer can't or Xavier can't. And again, all of these ideas are after 5 minutes of thought, wow, wouldn't take much to come up with something more compelling and realistic with the established characters.
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The logic applied to it is hard to wrap your head around and it makes all these big steps that happend with spidey , even the unmasking a total waste.
Even if the new adventures are fun stories , it will be hard to forget all the stuff that had gone on before.
I'm sorry but it doesnt work... -
Look, as far as I'm concerned Aunt May should have died and stayed dead and none of this other nonsense. Lots of story possibilities, and it's a story everybody can relate to: the feeling hopelessness when an aged loved one passes on and whether you could have done anything to stop it. But since you want some other ways this could have been done, here you go:
Night Nurse saves May. The healer kid from the X-Men Academy saves May. Reed Richards, most brilliant scientific mind on the planet, comes up with a way to save May. Loki, pretending to be any of those people cuz he can cuz he's a trickster god, saves May and comes to collect. The Cosmic Cube, which is probably how Steve Rogers will be back eventually, is used to change everything shitty that's happened in the last few years.
Or, alternately, DON'T have Norman fuck Gwen and spawn homicidal twins. DON'T do all this mystical spider-god avatar BS. DON'T introduce a bunch of mystical powers, then ignore them quite literally one month later. DON'T give him the Iron Spider suit. DON'T have him act utterly out of character and unmask. But most of all, DON'T have two people who we've been reading about for 45 years act so utterly out of character they sell their souls to the devil to save somebody weeks away from death anyway...AND THEN FAIL TO FOLLOW UP ON THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT DEAL.
The saddest thing? Dan Slott came up with a simple, elegant way out of the unmasking--that Quesada decided not to use, instead using the cludgiest, most unwieldy, least in character approach.
Change is inevitable, but that doesn't mean all change is good. The trick was to come up with a smart, reasonable way to implement the change--not say "it's magic! We don't have to explain it!" -
not MJ.. God forbid peter loses his aunt and has a tragedy on his head. NOOOOO That's not interesting. Seeing your hero shattered to peices going through a real challenge only to pick himself up agin was probably too hard to write. lol they missed on a great opportunity to let pete grow in many other ways....so much had changed now were back to a do over band aid.
Not gonna work guys. -
Good call.
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"I certainly have never made a decision here and pulled rank or thrown my weight around demanding that it’s my way or the highway, that’s simply not how I work." Oh really? That's not what JMS has been saying in all those interviews...
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What was Dan Slott's idea? Oh yeah... and Joe sure does talk like a PR person... jeez.
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Does anyone remember his call when he started. Dead stays dead. Then he brought back Magneto, Collosus, Bucky, and now Harry Osborn, and who knows how many others. He can't even stick with his own policies, so of course the only consolation is this won't stick.
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For two issues straight now, this is the first time in a looong time I recognize the Peter Parker/Spider-man I grew up with. While I think there was certainly a better way to undo the marriage than OMD turned out to be, I get why it had to be done. After 45 years (and with most of the stories from the 90's creating a huge mess) it was time to hit the 'reset' button on Spidey.
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Notice how Quesada states here that the "more interesting single Spidey" is no longer opinion but apparently law. This from the same guy who banned smoking in Marvel Comics but has, in the last few months, allowed deals with the Devil and incest. What a fucking joke.
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i miss wolverine with his cigar in his teeth.
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If I had to choose the death of my 80-something year old mother figure, or the love of my life, I'd choose the love of my life, hands down. I love my mother and all, but no thanks to forgetting WHY I'm alive, to be with my girl!
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I hope they don't cop out on their last part of their Quesada interview. They were going to pick questions from fans to ask Quesada, so we'll see what happens. And their interview showed Quesada being the major prick he gets let off on on here.
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Civil War, House of M, Avengers Dissassembled...all just horrendous events, yet huge sellers. No denying that Joey Q has done his job and got sales up.
Too bad almost everything that's happened has been stupid and/or giving the finger to comic readers. This Brand New Day debacle is just the icing on the cake. While I agree Peter is more interesting single, the whole way this was done is unbelievably lame and no way will I be reading, much less buying, any of it.
I do like New Avengers, though. -
Answer : Buy my product.
Not, buy my product and find out; just buy my product.
Wanker. -
Because if he said buy my product and find out would have been a bold faced lie, because he doesn't plan on answering any of it. Until sales go down and he's forced to change things.
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That was a controversial decision that pissed off fans and made as much sense as the whole Mephisto ordeal. Sure it's not the best way to handle things. But House of M lead to some of the best X-Men stories in years and I remain hopeful that this will do the same for Spider-Man. I'm already liking the current story by Slott a hell of a lot better than a good portion of the stuff Straczynski did. To me the whole Gwen getting pregnant is the worst thing to ever happen to the Spider books. I'd rather read the Clone Saga than read that shit again. The Other wasn't much better either.
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Jan 18, 2008 3:15:40 PM CST
Odd that no one has pointed out the nature of responibility
by rock-me amodeo
Joe has made an interesting point.
Let's say it's not Aunt May, but just some woman on the street, and a bullet meant for you hits her instead. To what extent are you responsible for THE EVIL ACTIONS OF SOMEONE ELSE?
I mean, how much are we responsible for things we didn't do or for things we are not directly accountable? On one hand, we could all be like Schindler at the train station, "I could have save one more..." And under that standard, no one has EVER done enough for anyone, as long as anyone is suffering. At some point, one must say "enough," grieve and let go.
But this misapplication of personal responsibility is the crux of Spider-man's existence. After all, he let a burglar go, but he didn't know the burglar could become a murderer. And Spider-man didn't kill Uncle Ben. Yet Peter has always taken full responsibility over the evil actions of OTHER PEOPLE.
In that sense, the sacrifice of the marriage is completely (and sadly) within character.
What I wonder is whether Spider-Man will ever learn the appropriate boundaries of personal responsibility vs. endless guilt over things that are NOT his responsibility. You know, whilst whipping and twipping and quipping the bad guys.
If he could learn that, it would almost be worth the (temporary) dissolution of his marriage. -
dang it.
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Peter feels guilty, but because in order to alleviate that guilt he knowingly and willingly committed an abomination in the eyes of a God he knows exists, even after Mephisto tells him this would be completely against God's will. If anything what he did was totally and utterly selfish and irresponsible, letting himself completely off the hook. Peter Parker does not do things perfectly, but in the instance of Ben's death he took responsibility instead of sweeping the whole thing under the rug, which is what he has done here. This is all not to mention the fact that this whole storyline stems from Peters actions during Civil War, which were even more out of character for him than a deal with Satan is. So in essence One More Day is flawed even beyond the confines of it's own horrible narrative.
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Oh, Quesadilla, how do you sleep at night? Seen the sales figures yet? Yikes! Time to look for a new job!
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Jan 18, 2008 3:44:47 PM CST
"I firmly believe that when the industry as a whole does too muc
by the heathen
Abuh?!?!?! Then why the fuck do what you did to Spider-Man you hack? That's what you're doing! You wanted, yes YOU, to have the 'old school' Spidey of yesteryear back because the brilliant identity unveiling during Civil War apparently worked out how you thought it would and deliver years of stories right? Right? If I had one wish I'd wish for ten more and having you fired would definitely be one of those ten.
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I still think it was in character. I don't like it, and I wouldn't have done it, but Peter would and did.Ben was shot, and Peter was involved, but he didn't do evil. The burglar did. And Peter changed the whole direction of his life to make up for a wrong he did not commit.May was shot, and Peter was involved, but he didn't do evil. The hit-man did. And Peter changed the whole direction of his life (via Diabolus-ex-machina Mephisto) to make up for a wrong he did not commit.I dunno, it seems kinda consistent to me.
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was intended to be the rest of the subject line.
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Jan 18, 2008 3:48:01 PM CST
DON'T have two people who we've been reading... for 45 years...
by jinxo
Actually, more than their souls, they sold their daughter's soul. Actually it would seem they caused her soul to potentially never even come into being.
Manicart1 says, "Well what better way could Peter be gotten out of this predicament???" Here's the thing. The predicament in question isn't something that sprung into being all on it's own that the writers now have to "get out of". "Oh dearie me! Peter is stuck with his Aunt dying. How did this happen? Whatever shall we do???" The whole thing from problem to solution was fashioned by the writers. How else to get out of this predicament? First on the list is write a better story. Start from a better starting point. They didn't have to write a story with May getting shot, they chose to. Having made that choice, they had better damn well have had a good way out set up from the word go. They didn't.
An innocent, Aunt May, got shot because of Spider-Man. He is willing to make a deal with the devil to undo it. That means he's heroic. Wrong. That's crap. Whatever his motivation he's making a deal with the devil. No good can ever EVER come of that. Sort of the point of the concept of "a deal with the devil". Having the deal be for MJ's life would have made him taking the deal more understandable but it would still be wrong. Having him make the deal to save a stranger would be understandable but still wrong. Joe Q says the best advice he got was when he was told an EIC needs a broad back for the job. Why? Because they have a lot of responsibilty to carry on their back. Same should be true for a hero. In this case, taking responsibility would be to live with the consequence of your actions, living with the knowledge that because you screwed up someone died.
"But a hero wouldn't let someone die!!!" Depends on the circumstance. This isn't about him pushing someone out of the way from a car. This is about saving someone the story went out of its way to say was destined to die to the point where the only solution was a deal with the devil. If fate, God, destiny were all of a mind that this needed to happen and the one who wants to help it NOT happen is the devil... maybe May needs to die.
Peter making the deal is not just bad but his consideration of it is equally stupid. First off, how would Peter and MJ not get that the little gir is their future daughter. Everybody reading got it before the reveal, why wouldn't they? The fact that they couldn't see that, the fact that they sacrificed their daughter makes them idiots. The fact that they bought Mephisto's reason for the deal makes them further isiots. "Oh, your marriage is so precious and I want to make your souls scream for the loss of it." Did anybody think this deal sounded believable? Okay, the reason it's bad is it was a bad piece of logic in the writing. But on the other hand, it could also be argued that it sounded like crap because Mephisto was lying out his ass about his reason for the deal. He's the devil. Isn't it just as likely that he wanted that marriage gone and history changed as a small part in a bigger, evil plan? That maybe he just rejiggered things in a way that will enable him to cause bigger more catastrophic evil? City On The Edge Of Forever stuff. Edith Keiler was supposed to die, McCoy saves her and history is changed for the worse. What if Aunt May living and Peter and MJ not marrying has the butterfly effect of causing massive problems in the future? Spider-Man undoes a death he caused with the price being not just his marriage but the life of his daughter and, possibly, a huge Mephistophlian distaster to be named later.
A deal with the devil equals the wrong move every time. Sucking it up and shouldering resposibility for the death is the heroic move. -
Jan 18, 2008 3:52:11 PM CST
Rock-me, I just told you unequivocally why Peter wouldn't have
by industrykiller!
taken the actions he took. Whether it "seems" alright to you or not, it isn't alright. My argument wasn't theological, it was based purely on logic within the confines of the character of Peter Parker. He wouldn't have taken that action end of story. You said Peter takes responsibility earlier, I responded by telling you how in OMD he is selfishly skirting responsibility. Don't give dickheads like Quesada reasons to keep bullshitting themselves by giving them false justifications.
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..is a concept being discussed here regarding which I usually find myself on the losing end: relative morality vs. absolute morality. Me being one who feels there are some things that are always, ALWAYS wrong.And now here I find people falling on that same side of the fence, talkbackers and COGS and @$$holes alike, united in the thought that a hero simply does NOT make a deal with "The" Devil, or "A "devil, or even any pretenders to the throne. That's awesome. That's......pardon me. I'm a little verklepmt with pride.
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No. That's not how this works. You've angered me to the point of never wanting to hear the name Spider-Man again. The correct answer to, "How do explain that the retcon makes no sense?" is not, "Keep reading!!!"
No. No, sir, I will not keep reading. Every confidence and trust I've placed in you has been betrayed. Why in heavens name would give you the benefit of the doubt now and keep reading?
You want me to keep reading, you make with some real answers right &^# now. No more "wink wink, wait and see" bull. I'm not in the mood. AT ALL.
Straight forward, your the salesman, I'm the customer. Actually I'm the enraged customer who feels he's been jerked around. It's your job to convince me I should buy your book. In this case that means explaining to me in no uncertain terms how what seems to be hugely faulty logic ISN'T hugely faulty logic. If you can't I have no more use for you. I'm looking for a reason to keep buying your book and your answer is, "Well... keep buying it." Genius. "I'll explain away the convoluted nonsense eventually! Really!" Not to me you won't. -
...that I disagree. In the instance of Uncle Ben, if he took responsibility for letting the guy go (an action that Spider-Man DID commit), then Peter should have tried to pay back the money stolen. Instead, Peter took responsibility for the guy shooting his uncle, an action that Spider-man did NOT commit.So I think we have something called a "disagreement." Sorry.Also, though I really didn't like all this OMD-BND stuff, and am greatly chagrined at the cosmic annulment of Peter and MJ's marriage, I'm really not responsible for whatever thoughts Joe or Marvel might infer from our discussion. Peter might feel responsible, but I do not - benefits of proper boundary management.
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...that an argument could be made that Peter made a decision consistent with his character, but that it was the wrong decision. Peter screwed up (also consistent, since Peter is human.) He screwed up and decided to play God by making a deal with a devil. Nothing good should come of it until May is on her way to her great reward and Peter looks at Jackpot and says, "I'd hit that" and does. (Get it? Hitting the Jakpot, tiger?)
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And as far as theological implications: I seem to recall Peter praying and talking to God in some of JMS's issues... does Mephisto really say it would be against God's will? huh
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Both made a deal with the devil to saved a loved one, right? Only Anakin winds up being entomed in a walking sarcophagus, stalking the universe as a maass murdering madman torn to shreads by guilt, hatred, and self loathing as an ironic twist on his deal. Peter Parker, on the other hand, gets to become a swinging single again and hang out with his Aunt without any seemingly lasting terrible consequences. Ooookay. You know its sad when even George Lucas turns out to be a better writer than you.
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Anyone else think that perhaps this whole BND shit is just a ruse and what we witnissed in OMD was Petey getting ganked by the Skrulls and replaced by new Petey? It's a stretch but more palatable than making a deal with the devil...not to mention a devil that has been shown in the past to be nowhere near that powerful.
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Intelligent questions and ... uh, interesting responses. Puts some of the other sites to shame.
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seem to have an argument, just a vague notion that you don't mind this whole thing. you disagree, but at the expense of all logic, much like the entire OMD storyline. And I'm not sure what you are talking about when you responded to what I said about Ben's death, considering I didn't say he took the responsibility for letting the guy go, I said he took responsibility for Ben's death. And if this argument that could be made that the whole thing is consistent with Peter's character, I would like to hear you make it. WHat in his past would lead us to believe that he would make a decision like this?
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MEPHISTO: HOMEWRECKER. It seems that instead of laying waste to souls and tempting the good, Mephisto just likes to break up marriages. I'm redesigning the Buscema character to look like a hot chick, although in some issues, he'll look like a hot dude, or at least an obnoxious dude (which will therefore get him chicks). While the majority of Marvel's characters are unmarried, the new Mephisto series will have long, paced for trade arcs. And I figure he won't just target married characters. He'll also target any long term romantic relationships.I'm particuarily looking forward to stirring controversy with the upcoming Northstar/Rawhide Kid arc.
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You three fans don't have to worry though. I'll wrap up the storyline in a mini called DEFENDERS: LOVE IS HELL, in which Mephisto tries to seduce both Hellcat and Daimon Hellstrom. Hellstrom suspects his involvment and a Defenders line up of Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer and Ghost Rider help out the troubled couple.
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Mephisto would never have broken up the marriage of Northstar and Rawhide kid by going back in time and getting George W. Bush elected over Al Gore so gay marriage would never have been ratified! Everyone knows that baby Jesus doesn't like gay marriage, so why would Mephisto put an end to it? It's just completely out of character. This is just more twisting of the characters by Quesada and ESPECIALLY Buzz Maverik so they can write headline grabbing stories. You @$$holes!!
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... get people to get married who should never get married? So he's breaking up your Peter?MJs and your Reed/Sues but meanwhile he's also causing Tony Stark to wake up in Vegas going, "Holy crap... did I marry Agatha Harkness last night? Isn't she dead?" Checks in bed next to himself. "Yep, she sure is. Apparently I dug her up and... wow, I really need to stop making deals with the devil while drunk."
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All in white, with a Fancy Shirt and guitar.
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Well he makes the rest of us cry so I'm just assuming...
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Elvisphisto will perform your nuptuals. And when he says, "Hunka burnin' love" he means actual, eternal flames.
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Is that Spiderman is starting to look like a human being again. I stopped following Spiderman religiously once the shittiest Spiderman artist of all time , Mark Bagley (you know you're a bad artist when you make people long for the Erik Larson days)took over, but everytime since then everytime I look at a Spiderman comic he is insanely misproportioned, with a superskinny childlike body and a huge alien egg head with was 85% eyes. So I find it reassuring that I'm consistently starting to see images of Spiderman where he doesn't look like he has Proteus syndrome.
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Northstar to Rawhide Kid: "I wish I knew how to quit yoooou! But even if you break my heart, at least we have this sweet nationalized healthcare up here in Canada, eh?"
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"Thanks for stopping by. Manservant Hecubus will give you some chips for the casino as you exit. Enjoy your loveless marriage."
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When I compare what happened to Ben and May, and how Peter reacted, and I use almost the exact same sentence structure to illustrate the similarities and the differences...well, I really can't make it much clearer than that. I must assume you are incapable of understanding that reasoning, or simply unwilling to concede the point. You seem to be reasonably intelligent, so I will conclude that you are simply unwilling. And that's okay.But don't cast aspersions regarding my ability to logically illustrate a point, because I'm well aware that there is no deficiency on my part regarding this one thing.To illustrate just how obstinate you appear: you say I present a vague notion that I don't mind the whole thing, but I have posted: "the sacrifice of the marriage is completely (and SADLY - hello!) within character""I DON'T (hello!) like it, and I wouldn't have done it...""Peter SCREWED UP (hello!)...He screwed up and decided to play God by making a deal with a devil. Nothing good should come of it..."If I state things this clearly and you still think I approve, its no wonder you're looking at my other points like monkeys looking at fire.Again, you seem too smart to be that dumb, so I will conclude you are unwilling to compromise the point, and call it a draw.
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I could be one of those people complaining about this. Don't really feel I need to though. Most of the posts above have stated perfectly how I feel. I am really sorry to see one of the world's greatest comic book characters reduced to this. Nothing resembles Spider-Man at all anymore. I feel bad for the fans.Joe Q. really needs to get his act together or resign. Maybe new blood is needed at the helm of this sinking ship.I use to enjoy comics from Marvel. Now, the only thing I collect are the Essentials and occassional Masterworks. I would take a small miracle for me to fall in love with the heroes there. Good luck though with those that plan on sticking this out.
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Quote JQ: "Of course you do have to keep an eye on history, but you always do better with longstanding characters if you move forward rather than spending too much time looking back. I firmly believe that when the industry as a whole does too much looking back, it hurts itself."
So, the way to "move forward" with Spider-Man is to retcon him back to the mid 1980s? That's a load of bullpucky. What a terribly handled past few years Spider-Man has had (and I'm not just talking shit, I've actually read the comics.)
What I see happening here is JQ retconing Spider-Man to how HE remembers the character from when he was a comic book reader. In a few years, when Marvel has a new EIC, I'm sure things will retcon to Peter and MJ being married again because that's how the new EIC remembered Spidey when HE was growing up. -
Anyone who reads this talkback with regularity knows I am a HUGE Peter/MJ shipper. I'm not the most interesting person in the world, but I was a universe of dull before I got married, not to mention a multiverse of plain old fashioned stupid. I identify with Peter for that very reason. I think Peter stories are STRONGER because he has someone to whom he is accountable, and much more vulnerable with someone who holds his heart rather than Betty/Liz/Felicia/Flavor of the week.I don't like the retcon and can't wait to see a reunified Peter and M.J., and that's really about it.Of course, that's just my opinion. But I would HATE for anyone to get the wrong impression, so I figured I better spell the sucker out.
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,,,but since I'm now "old" (and yeah, cranky) I'm not the youth demo they (he, Mr. I know what's best for everyone in the comics universe) are targeting. I started buying the Spider-Man again, thanks to the trade paperbacks with JMS stories, most of which I enjoyed since they did capture the spirit of older eras of Spidey, but with Parker as, wow, an adult I loved the teacher stuff, especially. But oh no marriage is bad for a hero, oh no. Funny, it's made for a better Superman overall, much better. And the Byrne post-crisis reset on that was so vastly superior to what's being done now with the Spider-Man. What's next? No more children in FF, Johnny's a colleger-ager again too? Reed no longer with white temples? Sue helpless? Quesada a fine artist, but a marginal writer/plot person (except perhaps his Daredevil work, though I look forward to Matt and Foggy back with Karen Page as a regular secretary and the return of Matt's brother Mike....)
Yeah, I'd love to see an actual boycott, but I doubt it can happen. There is the curiousity factor. Just do what I did - scan thru it at a bookstore, go feh, ugh... and don't buy it. Then again, the old folks (anyone 40 and up, hey maybe 30 and up) don't matter to Marvel. -
everything? Stick with a storyline for once in your life.
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The goddamn comics are a loss and have been since the early 90's. The stock is not affected by the book sales, only by the movie and merchandise. Quesada could crap on a Xerox, print 200k copies, call it Spider-Shit, and it would have zero impact. Trust me, I did this for years. When Arad first took over, he wanted to whack the whole division and just do mass re-printings with seasonal new tie-ins. The uproar made him back down, but the bastidge was right. Marvel writes the F'ing comic division off, just as Time-Warner does with DC, and the excuse provided to the holders is that they the books should be looked at as monthly advertisement for the movies and cartoons, not the other way around, which have the F'ing zipperheads at CBR like to think it is. So when Joe Melted Cheese retcon's the book back to the basics, it's because the book are free of having to resemble the movies. But once Spidey 4 is announced, that storyline will dictate aspects of the book.And this whole Spidey-Devil thing was a throwaway idea Alan Moore had in his 1994 "Image 1964" line, for the one-shot "No One Escapes The Fury".
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The parallel you are trying to draw between Peter's reaction to Ben's death and his reaction to May's death simply does not exist. Peter could have directly prevented Ben's death with a simple action that he chose not to take out of a indignant anger, May's death was something that was absolutely no ones fault, just a consequence of something that seemed completely innocent. And when Ben died did Peter make a deal with the devil to avenge him or bring him back to life? No he maned up and worked hard for the benefit of mankind. I'm sure you can see that there is a world of difference between that and making a deal with Satan. now it's hard for me to even talk about this with a straight face because Peter also would never have unmasked for Joe Quesada's bizarro Civil War Tony Stark, but for the sake of the argument I'll pretend. Look, you can lay the charge of sour grapes on me until the cows come home man, but I and many more people on this talkback have spelled out in plain terms that this is an action Peter Parker in a million years would not have taken, you are the one who hasn't backed his point of view up with anything but some weak tie to Peter's reaction to Ben's death, which as I've shown holds no water.
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that goes back on his word every 3 seconds? Not only did they screw up Spidey they screwed up some of the most fascinating things that was a result of CW (even though I wasn't too fond of the premise)
That's another thing bothering me why should an integral character in the Marvel Universe be acting like a goofball without any depth when the MU itself has gotten so grim as a result of CW ? -
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...heh!
I told you fuckers this shit was happening when Joe killed Steve Rogers. Wankers! -
... for more years than I want to think about. He was in college, he graduated from college. He got a black suit, he went back to the original suit... several times. He was single, he was dating MJ, MJ found out he was Spider-Man, he got married. He got cloned, he was the clone, no he wasn't. Aunt May died, no she didn't. He helped out on 911 (in the comics). He got organic webshooters, he was really a spider elemental, he grew spikes out of his arms, got a stupid armored costume. Revealed his identity, makes a deal with Mephisto (even to save Aunt May, it seems out of character), world forgets he was ever married. I've have enough. I can't take it anymore... game over for my Spidey reading habit... game over.
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That would have been a nice question to ask.
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But not about my points.
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I download dc, and don't bother with marvel, unless yu or cho are derawing, yes derawing.
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Jan 18, 2008 10:05:28 PM CST
So one more time, because I'm have a few minutes to kill...
by rock-me amodeo
...before Scrubs comes on. You said: "Peter could have directly prevented Ben's death with a simple action..."Untrue. He could have indirectly prevented Ben's death by a simple action. If my neighbor goes into town and robs a bank and kills someone, am I supposed to feel guilty when I saw him steal some apples and didn't have him arrested? No. If I am to feel guilty, it would be for the apple thievery I failed to respond to, not his actions in the future.You said: "May's death was something that was absolutely no ones fault..." If that was the case, then why does Peter feel so much guilt?Answer: he shouldn't, which is part of the point I'm making. Thanks for proving it with your words.You said:"when Ben died did Peter make a deal with the devil to avenge him or bring him back to life?" Of course not. Nor did I say that. Ah, the bliss of the straw man argument! Advance I premise that I did not, then defeat it and pretend it was mine.But that's not what I said. I said that Peter altered his life based on misplaced guilt regarding Ben's death, and he did it again over the misplaced guilt regarding May's shooting. How can you not see that parallel?Well, that's a question I think I have also answered, but I drew the wrong conclusion.
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And thanks for playing.
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I would love a Moore Spidey comic. What would make it even better is the thought of Moore kicking Joey Q in the nuts after he makes the decision to retcon his run.
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Let me hit this from a different angle. Peter was only indirectly responsible for Ben's death. But on a certain level his guilt is valid. Ben died as a side effect of Peter willfully being as asshole. The thief/killer got away because Peter was actively self-involved and not interested in doing anything to help anybody else. Ben's death isn't his direct fault but it's a worst case version of, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
May getting shot is a different thing entirely. Like Ben, May got shot as a result of Peter's actions. However, in this case Peter's actions were not self involved or thoughtless. Peter unmasked because he truly believed he was doing the right thing. He was throwing himself into being part of the solution. The thing with Ben was him being selfish, the unmasking was (sorry for the wordplay) him being selfless. Yes, it blew up in his face. But it was still him trying to do the right thing.
That's Peter. Always trying to make the right choice. How he couldn't see that making a deal with a man surrounded by fire, laughing an evi villain laugh is ALWAYS the wrong move is beyond me. -
and this may have previously been brought up...but wouldn't have ANY of the magical/cosmic/telepathic/whatever characters sensed a change of this magnitude? Wouldn't, say Wolverine, just catch a whiff of him and say.."say, is that parker?" I just can't make it work in my head
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art and sometimes story to some of the best Marvel stories ever? The same guy who sold out and became Editor In Chief?
Man, Mark Gruenwald must be spinning on his grave. -
Wolvie was the only one who knew something was off during House of M
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In fact, she did. Twice. Or maybe three times. She should have stayed dead. I abandoned Spider-Man during the Clone Saga and made the HUGE mistake of starting to buy it again just before the whole Civil War thing. Now, I won't be buying it anymore. In fact, Civil War has convinced me to abandon Marvel altogether. Good job, Joe! Thanks for saving me a few dollars a week.
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to start reading spider-man comics again right before this horrible fucking clusterfuck known as "one more day". and wasn't aunt may really old back when peter first got his powers? Why didn't they just kill her off? She must be like 140 by now.
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joe al-quesada=huge fucking douchebag who ruined marvel
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The comics themselves are irrelevant compared to the licensing. In fact, Marvel is officially a licensing company. Any talk of sales success or big sales under Mr. Quesada is relative. Sales fell in the early '90s and might never come back. Comics have always been considered about a year away from extinction. In the recent Jack Kirby biography TALES TO ASTONISH, John Romita Sr. was reportedly aghast when he learned that JR Jr. was going to be a comic book artist and work for Marvel. Mind you, John Sr. and his wife Virginia were both Marvel employees. Romita Sr. was sure comics were going to tank.I think comics will always exist, but they may actually become an artform practiced by independents or small studios. Very specialized.Marvel continues to publish in order to hold the rights. Don't want 'em going public domain.In the meantime, I don't know about you, but I couldn't even pretend to like the first issue of the Ellis IRON MAN reboot a few years ago or Orson Scott Card's first issue of ULTIMATE IRON MAN, but I can't wait for Favreau and Downey's IRON MAN. Those few minutes before CLOVERFIELD sure looked a lot more like the Heck/Ditko/Colan/Lee classics than anything I've seen in a comic book since the first Armor Wars storyline.And whaddaya wanna bet that Tim Roth's movie Abomination doesn't sit in a prison as long as Bruce Jones' version of the character did a few years ago.Why am I referring to comics from 2-3 years in the past? Because that's when I quit reading them! I got tired of reading comics that sucked.I love superheroes and superhero comics, so I had to quit reading them so I could continue to like them.
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big guns like Marvel Entertainment (NYSE code: MVL) are no longer about comics. Sad but true.
On the 1% I disagree with, I must say that I don't understand how you could dislike Volume#4 or Ultimate Iron Man (same here) and don't see the similarities in tone with what Favreau put together for his Iron Man teaser. But I digress. -
Green Lantern #25 end of the Sinestro Corps War. Best superhero comic I have read since I started reading comics. All i'm going to say is "The Blackest Night".
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are ludicrous. Do you even think about the other stuff he's done. Like single handedly save Marvel? He fucked up on this, yes big time and the fact it's Spidey, their Flagship and most loved character is what makes it so powerful. but this is the guy who made comics actual Art. I mean Daredevil, Captain America, The Punisher Max, Iron Fist, Spidey JMS run(ironic). All this under his tenure. Whilst DC is on the sidelines years behind not realizing their whole universe is basically alive thanks to Geoff Johns.
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That was the whole "extremis" arc, right? I actually thought that as really great. It reminded me of something Cronenberg would do -- the whole body horror thang. And you know the future is all about biotech, which is probably gonna be the final nail in our sick sad coffin as a species, but I can't wait to see the parade of mutations before the inevitable end...
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And the future is now. Books by Chris Ware, Daniel Clowes, Hernandez Bros. and others now outsell Marvel and DC considerably. Case they see em in *gasp* bookstores! And people buy em and read 'em! Normal, ungeekyish, educated people! Imagine!
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Especially in Japan since comics and related arts are integral to the fabric of society. When I lived there, I nearly cried with joy the first time I got on the train in Tokyo and saw all of people -- from normal, everyday, commuters, to ourageously coifed teenage kogals and punkers -- reading comics in their seats, waiting for the trains, etc. Beautiful! Of course, theres tons of trash manga, but theres also works of genius; the important thing being that, trash or not, its people reading comics, which, for my money, is the worlds greatest artform with almost limitless potential.
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"JQ: I can assure you it’s going to remain in place for the long term."
That just helps reaffirm my decision to have canceled my subscription. I still like Spider-Man and will always be a fan. One shots and movies will still be of interest to me but I’m not willing to financially support their decision to erase 20 years of story lines and continuity. -
COMIC COLLECTORS UNITE AND REVOLT!
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Ok this is my first post on aint it cool. I was so offended by JQ's arguement. ( first a side note: I dont think he is trying to destroy the Marvel U but I do think he is trying to leave his mark...by pissing on everything). Story lines should change but not the characters. I like Spider-Man and the changes I want to see are the tone in story telling. I want the stories to grow as I grow. Maybe thats why we have the ultimate universe. Kids need their fun but make it something outside cannon. I feel like a slave that has lost his/her history. The article says sales are up but I don't think they would ever say otherwise. If sales are up it might be from people like me who stopped buying spider-man regularly long ago (clone saga) and occasionally buy spider-man just to see if he has come back. Change the tone, context, issues in story but not hte character. If I want a different character I'll buy a different character.
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Rectal itch!
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read it at bookstore. you like it, buy it. you don't walk away. let's see if this post about boycott potential stays up.
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LMAO
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you credit Joe Q as the guy "who made comics actual Art"? Are you fucking crazy? You give the guy way too much credit.
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The last time he put out a comic, was like 2 years ago, and no comic store in my town carried it and I had to special order it. What sales figures are you using here?
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This guy actually took advice from Terrible Tom De Fucko? No wonder why Marvel Comics are teh suck.
I'll support the Movies and hopefully Ironman will be sucessful. Other than that, making a deal with Mephisto, The Civil War, A red hulk and bringing bucky back from the dead is not "Marvelous". -
How can you ask us to buy an issue of Brand New Day with it's brand new writer team. Thats basically saying buy this book wether or not you like it. Give everything a chance. How about you give the consumer a break. If this new run is suppose to be the second coming of Spider-Christ then why not sell this book at 1/2 price? Put your money where your mouth is. I would buy it at half price and If I liked it I would buy the next issue at full price. Common Joe give us something to believe in!
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They could have easily done this with a What-if comic or a side line of comics (Ultimate Spidey covers this btw). Why this crap had to be main Marvel is stupid beyond stupid. And No way I am buying a weekly book on this shit...so I will drop this title not the whole Marvel line just anything involving this crap. I know I should drop every title of Marvel, but I am a comics junkie.
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Then why bother with it at all if they're going to piss over 20 yrs away? Also kids are not going to come back in droves. For kids it all about what's new and that's manga plus videogames.
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effectively managed the timeline over their run without throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The best article that I've read about this is from cbr with Erik Larsen. He gives a thoughtful analysis of the storyline from an industry perspective. Plus he trashes Quesada's artwork.
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I stopped reading comic books in 1995.
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The same mentality exists when something "big" supposedly happens. Many people are buying more than one copy because they think it is going to be worth something. Hate to tell them it isn't. Also, look at the numbers and compare them to comics five years ago. They can't even compete. If you are attempting to spike sales with some event then you succeded. Eventually there will be another event to try to get a spike in sales. Something stupid.
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crap. I just hate that. Buy four covers of the same thing! Just give me one good cover please.
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Liefeld is on a level of suckiness that transcends all others
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... with all the Joe Al-Quesada nonsense. Granted, the man has committed a major attack on Spider-Man and the Marvel Universe but he's not a terrorist! Please, attack his ego and boycott Amazing Spider-Man (as I have and still shall do!) but please don't equate him to a group that kills men, women and children without compunction for that is just wrong and totally uncalled for.
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you're just asking for people to make terrorist puns with your name.
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Poor Alice.
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sorry i meant major superhero comics. Alot of characters were just throwaway comics that were just rushed and just product. alot of the stuff under Quesada has been thoughtout and arty. I mean the daredevil runs, punisher max, captain america. And no I don't think i give him too much credit, the guy saved marvel and comics in general from becoming a completely niche underground artform.
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Just adding my voice to the chorus here. I enjoyed JMS's run-- hell, I enjoyed the 20 years of Spider-Man history I grew up reading that has now been rendered moot with one editorial decision. What editor has the balls to say, "oh, this is the way I enjoyed Spider-Man the best, let's just erase everything else?" Even if he did involve some writers in the decision, it's still a completely arrogant decision.
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Amazing Spiderman was the first comic that I bought more than a few consecutive issues of, this was back when black-suit became Venom and Todd McF. was doing the art chores.... I'm still a weekly comic book reader, though I quit reading Spiderman back during the Clone debacle. However, because this was the character who got me into comics, generally, every time there's a change in writer, major storyline shakeup, or whatever, I'll pick up an issue to check out what's what. Sometimes I'll return it to my pull list for an issue or two, sometimes I'll read it for longer.... I read eleven issues of JMS's stuff before once again growing board with it..... AND for the record, I even agree that Peter Parker is a more interesting character without his marriage..... however, THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL I AM GOING TO BE PICKING BND UP! Peter Parker made a deal with the Devil????? They erased years of Spiderman mythos???? They brought back Harry???? PETER-FUCKING-PARKER MADE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL????? Fuuuuuck that!
By the way, thanks for the current X-men storyline. New Avengers too. Great stuff.
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Why no edit AICN? Why?
Board = bored... etc, etc. -
just lame.
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...Actually, I don't remember why. But I didn't. I'm sure I said why, in a weird round about way, when I reviewed 'em here. Clearly, they were worse than bad...they were forgettable.But I know from the IRON MAN trailer, they weren't going for Ellis/Ultimate, they were going for TALES OF SUSPENSE, bay-bee!
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Apparently the only thing Quesada cares about are sales. So the first thing every angry fan (like me) needs to do is STOP buying AMAZING SPIDER-MAN.
The second thing is send your issues of Brand New Day or One More Day back to Marvel. Sure it'll cost a few bucks but when CBS got all those peanuts in the mail they brought back Jericho.
Mine have already been mailed since I can't abide having a comic book where the "hero" makes a deal with the devil in my house.
www.fanboyspodcast.com -
And I've been collecting since the late 1970s. But from here on in, I'm just reading them at Borders/Barnes & Noble and then putting them back on the rack until such time as continuity is restored.
Sorry, but I don't like JQ using Spider-Man as a Mary Sue style proxy. It sucks, and the way they got to it is even worse.
If I want to read about single Peter Parker and his "down on his luck" misadventures, I'll dig out my comics from that period, or read Ultimate Spider-Man. There was no reason to do this.
What next? Are they going to revert Tony Stark to alcoholism? Undo Captain America's death? Bring back McFarlane? (PLEASE NO!!!)
Fuck it, man. JQ *knew* the fans didn't want this, and never asked for it, and he did it anyway with a lot of spite and blinders on. He runs Marvel Comics like George W. Bush runs the United States... Doesn't matter what WE want. It's all about HIM and his ego.
JQ makes me miss Jim Shooter, and THAT is saying a lot. -
Wouldn't Pete still be wearing the black costume, since he never had to stop wearing it because Venom traumatized Mary Jane? If he wasn't with Mary Jane, then he never had a reason to stop wearing the black costume... So where is it?!?!
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...This is just another continuity issue that Joe Q and Marvel will never address so just stop buying the book and maybe something will be done about it. On a plus note, Marvel finally refunded my ASM subscription this morning but they even had the balls to e-mail me a list of alternative titles too! Joe Q, corporate whore...
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except there is still the great captain america, iron fist, daredevil, new avengers, ultimate spiderman still going on which is under his tenure. marvel would be dead without him. but yeah he fucked up on this.
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Agree with you a 100%, though I do think Steve Rogers will be back eventually.
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"I don’t mind straying from the original concept at times, that’s the sort of thing that makes for a fun storyline, it’s when you go to that place and then find that there’s no good way back that is ultimately damaging."
Having Spider-Man unmask for example?! Idiot. -
"Of course you do have to keep an eye on history, but you always do better with longstanding characters if you move forward rather than spending too much time looking back. I firmly believe that when the industry as a whole does too much looking back, it hurts itself. What ends up happening is that you spend way too much writing love letters to the creators who inspired you and not enough attention to the audience that wants stories that belong to them."
Doesn't this seem to directly contradict the fact that you have essentially "devolved" the character of Peter Parker/Spider-Man by making him younger, unmarried, living with his aunt, hanging around with the previously dead Harry Osborn, etc, etc? You have, in essence, gone backwards in time with the character, which is exactly what you just said you shouldn't do.
You, my friend, are a moron of the highest order. Congratulations! -
"@: We've been told the deal with Mephisto simply made everyone forget Peter is Spider-Man. How does people forgetting who Spidey is bring Harry Osborn back from the dead? How does it eliminate organic shooters and other physical powers, restoring him to just mechanical shooters and spidey-sense? Are we going to see any of this addressed in ASM, or is it best to just accept the new status quo, not think about it, and go from there?"
JQ: Read AMAZING SPIDER-MAN!"
In other words, you are unable to answer the question. Thank you for this enlightening interview, you complete and utter dumb-ass. -
"@: We've been told the deal with Mephisto simply made everyone forget Peter is Spider-Man. How does people forgetting who Spidey is bring Harry Osborn back from the dead? How does it eliminate organic shooters and other physical powers, restoring him to just mechanical shooters and spidey-sense? Are we going to see any of this addressed in ASM, or is it best to just accept the new status quo, not think about it, and go from there?"
JQ: Read AMAZING SPIDER-MAN!"
In other words, you are unable to answer the question. Thank you for this enlightening interview, you complete and utter dumb-ass. -
I believe there is something in some of us that makes us susceptible to comics. Or comics are at best a religion, at worst, a cult.Case in point: I have never seen the movie X-MEN:X-MEN UNITARIAN...because I deeply hated the first X-MEN movie.I used to review comics with the @$$holes, and whenever I mentioned that little tidbit in a review I'd get 1,000,086 e-mails from deeply offended fans who wondered how I could review comic books if I wouldn't see that movie ("Well, you see, Timmy, I read the comic while looking at the artwork and think about it and write something. Watching a movie isn't necessary..."). People would get very angry or beg me to see the movie.Meanwhile, as reviewers, we were always hearing from our fellow fans:"If you don't like it, don't buy it or read it."Okay, I won't.Right now, I just read an occasional MARVEL ESSENTIAL (ESSENTIAL CAPTAIN AMERICA VOL. 4 contains some of the best Cap stories of all time!) and DC SHOWCASE PRESENTS. Yeah, there's good work being done, but there's a lot of crap being sold to us addicts, too.So, it can be done. I didn't quit reading comics because I hated them. I quit because I love comics and want to continue loving comics.I used a few modern incarnations of IRON MAN for example. I haven't seen the movie, of course, or read the script. I have seen the preview and I didn't see anything in there that wasn't from the TALES OF SUSPENSE origin by Stan Lee, Larry Lieber and Don Heck, or from the late '70s early '80s alcohol issues written by David Micheline. Yeah, I like Warren Ellis, too...on PLANETARY. He's too cold of a writer for most mainstream Marvel. Doesn't mean he's bad or I don't like him. He's probably too good for it.Anyway, you can kick the addiction. Most of us just don't wanna.
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holy fuckin shit
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Yeah, I just caught this on Sky News in the UK. Early reports say he took an overdose of prescription drugs as tablets were allegedly found scattered all over his apartment. God, I hope this was accidental and not a suicide or 'suspicious circumstances'. Although, in recent interviews, Heath had said playing the Joker had taken him into 'some very dark places'...
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and I'm starting to hate it. Of course, I'm not BUYING it. I'm only reading it in the store, but I really don't like the whole "Peter Parker is a luckless loser" thing. It SUCKS. Here I was just getting to like the Peter Parker that was becoming an accepted, valued member of the superhero community and a talented teacher, husband, and nephew, and we're returned to the days of Pete being a chump.
That whole "Parker luck" thing just pisses me off. I dislike the direction the new stories are taking, with Pete being just plain downtrodden every step of the way, Harry hating Spider-Man (and being alive), and major villains being intimately tied to Aunt May by some major coincidence.
I SERIOUSLY didn't ask for this. I was HAPPY with the Spider-Man I was reading just two months ago. Now, I'm reading REPRINTS of the Spider-Man I read 20 years ago.
This sucks. Slott can write well enough but the setting he's using sucks. He's apparently not talented enough to write about a married Spider-Man, or a dead Aunt May, or a dead Harry. I know this is all Joe Q's fault, but this run just plain SUCKS so far. I hate the "gosh, I'm just so down on my luck" dialogue, and I hate the goddamn THOUGHT BUBBLES everywhere. I feel like I'm reading a fucking silver age comic, and that is NOT a good thing.
The Silver Age is dead. We've evolved. Why does Marvel want to devolve now?
I may have to stop reading. This is just making me too mad. -
I'm just smoking it. There is a big difference!
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The difference is that you probably never listened to Britney Spears or watched VH1, because you probably thought they ALWAYS sucked.
Amazing Spider-Man was on a good path less than a month ago. I enjoyed it. I have been reading it since 1978, and I've actually read the entire run via reprints. I LIKED it until approximately five issues ago.
To use your analogy, this would be like listening to Led Zeppelin and and then suddenly being told that they were replacing Robert Plant with Britney Spears.
It would be like watching "The Wire" and having it morph into VH1 midway through an episode.
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