Cool News
Directors Guild Makes Three-Year Deal With AMPTP!!
I am – Hercules!!
From Variety:
DGA touted a trio of new-media gains:
Establishing DGA jurisdiction over programs produced for distribution on the Internet;
Boosting the residuals formula for paid Internet downloads (electronic sell-through) by double the current rate;
And establishing residual rates for ad-supported streaming and use of clips on the Internet.
Will doubling download residuals be enough for the writers guild, on strike since Nov. 7?
The current Screen Actors Guild agreement with the AMPTP expires in June.
Read all of Variety’s story on the matter here.
Establishing DGA jurisdiction over programs produced for distribution on the Internet;
Boosting the residuals formula for paid Internet downloads (electronic sell-through) by double the current rate;
And establishing residual rates for ad-supported streaming and use of clips on the Internet.
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Is the strike over?
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YEs!?
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it seems to be making the studios a bit more creative.
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...you goopy bastard - 3!! fuckin!! seconds!!!
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Is Youtube fucked? BUM BUM BUM??!!!??
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I'm so pissed I think I'm going to drown a bag of kittens...
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to watch some stranger get kicked in the nuts.
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the Writer's Guild strike. You would think that DGA went through quick, that maybe the problem is the WGA and not the studios...
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did you guys know it's already 1-18-08 over here in Europe? :-) yet the fucking movie won't start over for for ANOTHER TWO WEEKS! fuck that... I want CLOVERFIELD TODAY!
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Until we know the details, I don't believe the strike is over. Doubling the rate is what the WGA wanted but AMPTP refused. After the way they treated the NegCom I am highly suspicious of their motive. Understand the below vid as to why the strike even took place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMNePzqpzQ&eurl=http://weblogs.variety.com/wga_strike_blog/ -
I have to agree with you
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I think this is VERY WRONG! I could say anything, but I'll just point out that I appear to be automatically logged in as another person and since no one else has access to this computer, it would appear there's a problem in your code Harry.
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...been on strike since early November?
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Not surprising they came to an agreement quickly. They do their research so they know where they stand on the issue. They know what they want as well as what they can get. On the other hand residuals are of less importance to DGA members. The WGA probably should have gotten them to do more research first. The WGA has a history of ineptness when going to the table according to other union leaders. Still this doesn't excuse the insulting behavior of the AMPTP or whatever they're called.
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made a deal with that old AMT model company.
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they are nothing but whiny babies. make the same deal as the directors and shut up
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for the DGA that is. whatever. I continue to support the WGA, and feel that in the end they will reach an agreement that works out well for them. (f the studios btw)
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I'm going to start charging for my posts. A buck a letter!
yay! -
though the WGA shouldnt settle for anything less than what they asked for. im quite happy to survive on a diet of Bond films and Weinstein movies.
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The DGA really rolled over. Not a big surprise, but the deal they just inked is awful. I mean... it's good if you're a producer, but not so much if your a director.
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what a horrible deal
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oh please PLEASE CLOSE THOSE GRASSFUCKERS DOWN OH PLASE
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(1) $1,260 fixed residual payment for one-hour TV dramas streamed over the Internet in the first year. So, if you direct and episode of LAW & ORDER you only get 1 grand. That's it. (2) The studios also would be entitled to a 24-day promotional window in the first year, and a 17-day window in the second year. After the first year, directors would receive 2% of the distributor's gross revenue. 2% is good, but what's with the promotional window bullshit? An episode of LAW & ORDER is NOT promotional it's a fucking endless sea of $! (3) When movies are sold online, directors will receive the current DVD royalty, 0.36% on the first 50,000 downloads, and 0.65% thereafter. Directors would get a 0.36% residual for the first 100,000 downloads of their TV episodes, and 0.7% after that. So the producers are giving the directors the same bullshit percentage of DVD, but only for the first 100,000 downloads. I guess that SOMETHING, but asking for something shouldn't be the way you fucking negotiate. (4) Directors received jurisdiction over Web episodes based on existing scripted shows and original Web shows above a certain budget threshold. For instance, Web series costing less than $500,000 would be exempted. How many webisodes really cost more than half a million dollars! That's fucking ridiculous! Why not just say we'll only pay you for webisodes that cost less than 20 billion dollars?! (4) The deal contains a so-called revisit clause that allows contract provisions to be adjusted after the three-year term. Yes, and in three years the DGA will roll over again.
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While you're right about writers not being any kind of draw to an audience you are incorrect about why this deal happened so fast. The fact is... the DGA is the smallest and weakest union. They took a bad deal because they are afraid to strike. I can't believe they didn't at least get that extra 10 cents for DVDs that the writers were asking for.
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You wrote: "The WGA has a history of ineptness"... I couldn't agree with you more. But you also wrote: "... residuals are of less importance to DGA members." You couldn't be more wrong. Residuals are residuals. Many directors take a very small fee up front and then ask for a bigger percentage residual. Also, many TV directors live off of their residuals.
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You suck cock by choice. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Now the writers are in a corner, if they don't accept the same offer, they will look greedy and support for them will be shifted away. So they better fucking accept it!
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I didn't read their deal, I'm just assuming it's better than what was proposed to the writers and that they should accept.
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that the grownups at the DGA were handling negotiations.
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That the writers, directors, and actors are not negotiating together? I mean, as we've seen here, if one of the unions strikes, the others are out of work too. So some of these comments like the DGA was afraid to stand up to the producers and strike makes little sense to me when they are basically on strike right now, even if not by their own choice.
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Jan 17, 2008 6:25:48 PM CST
Oops... I missed the wage increases... This part is nice...
by -guyinthebackrow
Wage Increases
• Compensation for all categories except directors of network prime time dramatic programs and daytime serials increases by 3.5%, each year of the contract.
• Compensation for directors of network prime time dramatic programs and daytime serials increases by 3%, each year of the contract.
• Outsized increase in director’s compensation on high budget basic cable dramatic programs for series in the second and subsequent seasons:
o For ½ hour programs: 12% increase in daily rate and increase in guaranteed number of days to 7 days.
• Results in show rate increasing from $9,009 to $11,760.
o For 1-hour programs: 12% increase in daily rate and increase in guaranteed number of days to 14 days.
• Results in show rate increasing from $18,010 to $23,520.
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This whole ordeal just feels ugly and skewed. I just couldn't help but feel when I saw these guys from the WGA on TV there was kind of an unearned sense of downtrodden nobility. I know Hollywood has a long history of crapping on writers but they way a lot of these guys talked you'd swear they were serfs standing up against their cruel nobel lords. I agree with the writers in principle but things have been a bit murky lately. From personal experience it seems like everyone has forgotten one important thing, at the end of the day these are only movies and televisions they're working on.
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But wait. I just did. That's like a paradox or something
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Only the TV directors are not working right now. Film directors are still working with finished scripts, like INDIANA JONES.
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WAS HE FIRED?
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The writers are holding up an entire town because they think a deal like that isn't good enough for them. It's criminal. Residuals aren't there so you can retire after one script, it's just small ADDITIONAL payments. Keep in mind that writers (and directors, actors) are paid a generous sum to begin with for their services. Residuals are just icing on the cake. And to the TBer that was saying residuals would "only" be 1300 or so for a year for an episode for a director...don't forget the original 100,000 he made, plus the 20,000 or so from the first repeat, then then another 3000 from DVDs, multiplied by 4 or 5 at least (directors on series usually direct multiple eps...sometimes an entire season. So if you're feeling sorry for a guy that makes a half a million for 5 weeks work then collects another 120,000 or so in residuals the first year and 10,000 or so every year after that...you're fucking crazy!!!
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You're not the only one that feels like this whole thing is ugly and skewed, but you gotta remember that these are people's careers, their lives, how they pay for their children's schooling, how they pay for food. But, yes, it is all ugly and skewed. I've got no argument there.
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We can't forget that!
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For the love of God people!
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Jett, do you think the directors pull dialogue and story out of their assess minutes before filming? I agree with joeelliott, in that directors pull in more of an audience that writers for movies, but TV is a writer's world.
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You're an idiot.
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I apologize for my last post. You're not an idiot. You're just... different.
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I guess you're more comfortable with the idiotic suits cashing in than those that actually provide the creative entertainment? Studios rape everyone that'll let them; I stand by the writers.
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Residuals are an important issue because working one time this year doesn't guarantee more work for the rest of the year. They help maintain an artists stability so they can work. Also, I'm a little sketchy as to how much your average TV director makes per episode but I'm having doubts that it's $100,000 per episode. I could be wrong but that doesn't sound right.
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Residuals are an important issue because working one time this year doesn't guarantee more work for the rest of the year. They help maintain an artists stability so they can work. Also, I'm a little sketchy as to how much your average TV director makes per episode but I'm having doubts that it's $100,000 per episode. I could be wrong but that doesn't sound right.
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together, guys. We can make a difference.
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So they can't very well ACCEPT the same offer that the DGA did, can they? Jesus Christ, people. Unless you've been paying attention, shutthefuckup.
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people. Jeez, you're so stupid! I hate you guys! Man. Seriously, pay attention to the issues. Jeez.
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you make me laugh.
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If they're only working once per year, then get a fucking day job and make a normal living. Because if they expect to put the entire industry out of work just so they can get enough in residuals to write one script and go to Maui the rest of the year, that's insane. You get paid for each job you do. Only write one script this year? Fine, then serve me my drink like the rest of the out of work actors.
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these "suits" are cashing in and raping everything? Seriously? They put up the money. Some TV shows operate at a LOSS until syndication because of the budget and actors salaries. And they PUT UP THE MONEY, so they are the bosses. They OWN the shows, no matter how creative and artistic the writers' efforts are.If you paid an architect to design a house for you, and you paid him, and paid for the house, then he says "I want to stay in the guest bedroom every other week and use the pool whenever i want because I'm so creative and you wouldn't have this house without me" you'd say GET THE FUCK OUT!!! Buy your own house. If writers want to make more money, finance their own shows.
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When I graduate college and start my career as a screenwriter, I'll probably work like three jobs for years until one day, maybe, someone actually tricks themselves into liking what I write and makes it into a movie, and then, maybe then, I can enjoy one week in Maui and not have to work for a year. And I think that's totally fair.
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I do smoke a lot of weed...
You should try it, it cuts down on the anger factor. So rage-alicious! Just differing opinions I guess. I don't think that because the studio puts up the money, that they should receive nearly ALL the benefit (which is the current offer), when they would essentially have NOTHING without writers, directors, and actors. It's a symbiotic relationship, not nearly as one sided as you make it sound. -
And almost vomited. No exaggeration. He's the most disgusting thing i've ever seen. It's not just because he is fat. It is a mixture of everything. I'm officially on the "It's 2PM, make a Harry joke" bandwagon.
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The studios should just let them sell T shirts and hold live recitations of their scripts if they want money. I work as a plumber but I don't get 10 cents every time somone flushes their toilet.
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Film and TV is a symbiotic relationship with EVERYONE. Not just writers/directors/actors. Wouldn't they also have NOTHING without the art directors, the cameramen, the production managers, the casting directors, the costume designers, the production assistants, the grips, the drivers, the editors, etc.???That is my point...not that the writers don't deserve everything they want, but they don't need to get it at the expense of everyone else. Thank you.
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We need to break up BIG MEDIA so that the long awaited renaissance of user created content can begin. Just imagine thousands potential Spielbergs working their magic with nothing but handycams, family members and youtube. Oh god it will be a glorious age.
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A successful lifestyle in Hollywood isn't necessarily based on talent. It's not right but it's true. Many writers, actors, adn directors have their whole careers dependent on the fickle nature of the executives playing with the money. Also, it's very unlikely that any talent in Hollywood that works even intermittently holding a 40 hour a week job. That's why waiting tables is such a common job for an actor, because the money is pretty good if you're in the right restaurant but it's almost like pulling teeth if you have to switch shifts. I wish we worked in a system where the most talented always prevailed but its simply not true. Granted fail due to lack of determination but you'd be amazed how many get screwed out of pettiness.
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Even if the Director's deserve even more.
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Egyptian Theatre 6712 Hollywoo Blvd. Hollywood. Saturday. 7PM Its called PROMETHEUS TRIUMPHANT Great little film. Followed by a reception(That means free booze and grub! Don't forget to tip the bartender!) Its at info@madmonkeyproductions.com
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Not that I hate movies and TV, I just thought the trainwreck would be amazingly entertaining to watch. I just like anarchy, really.
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Point taken. I still think they deserve more of the internet revenue than the studios are offering. Apparently the avg salary for a writer over a 5 year stretch is $62000 a year, whereas the studios made $95 billion in revenue last year. Doesn't seem all that balanced to me. Then again, I got this info from the WGA website, so with a grain of salt...
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I know this has been said a million times, but they wouldn't have their fucking movies (good and bad) without the fucking writers. Ipso Facto. It's greed and nepotism that dominates the movie industry. And this is what happens when an art form is turned into a business.
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LOS ANGELES, Dec. 25 (UPI) -- Experts say negotiations between U.S. film studios and the directors union could result in a deal that undercuts demands made by the striking writers.
I see the future. I see giuld heads rolling. -
...is that they are negotiating for Guild MINIMUMS, not a deal for every writer or director. This means that some guy pounding out the latest ripped from the headlines Law & Order that the showrunner outlined for him will be guaranteed at least the minimum. The true artists, the valued writers such as JJ Abrams or Drew Goddard or David Kelley or (insert your favorite writer here) have rates that far exceed Guild minimum. Their quotes have been raised with each sale and each project. So the studios aren't "crushing art" by not raising the minimum for every hack out there. The talented writers are still getting paid.Don't think for a second that Speilberg, Michael Bay, Shyamalan, or any other director with box office success is just getting the point whatever percent that is the new DGA minimum. Same goes for writers.
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If the strike is over, does that mean the abortion known as Justice League is still going to be made?!?
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"there gonna kill that poor woman, i know." what about life, your life? it's always about them, never us!
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Good. Writers IMO do not deserve residuals. Most times they write and then they're done, and then the real work begins.
Directors and actors deserves everything. -
Does this mean megpen will be allowed to pick up a pen again? We can't let this happen!.
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I bet you thought up that subject line with no help what so ever.ˆ
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That means Michael Bay is safe to make Transformers 2. Yes!!!!!
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I wish I was the bartender, Mr. Saxon 'cause there'd be no cheap pours with me! Everyone would be drunk as a fucking monkey! Absinth and Everclear with a Bacardi 151 chaser! Woo-hoo! Its a flick that I received a screener on(Yes, I also write for other publications.) that's pretty damn good. I sent Harry this article a few days ago and wonder why he has published it. I also sent him a scoop that I gave to the local news radio station that was broadcasting the report from 3:00 PM until Midnight every fifteen minutes! Harry was the only other one who had the scoop! Wassup there, Harry?!You used to be the cutting edge, man. Anyway, I have no involvement in this flick except that its just damn good. Its well directed by Jim Towns and Mike McKown and has this surreal, German Expressionist look to it. Creepy and atmospheric. Now, I don't know these guys, but they did a pretty good job and I believe every new film maker should get a break one-in-awhile. Hey, John Ford, Howard Hawks, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg all started someplace too. Plus, its free and there's free booze and chow after the screening! Three requisits for any budding film maker!
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if the writers end the strike....how long would it take for new tv to hit the screens?
This shit is getting ridiculous -
Sassy!
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Never undercount the sassy. It's worth 20 points.
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ouch on this deal.... can't say that I think it will go over too well with the WGA. The directors got bent over on the internet usage.... sigh... they gave away dvds, and now, maybe the net too. Great.
Anyway, when will tv be on? Here's a hypothetical that I'm running thru my head on when I get back to work:
1)Say the wga heads get together with AMPTP and think its a great deal next Monday the 21st.
2)Give it a week to put the contract before the union, and have them vote on it. That's the 28th.
3) Say the writers accept. Give them one more week to get back to their jobs, keeping in mind they have them. That's Feb 4th.
4)One/two weeks to come up with ideas, and get them to the studios for notes, revisions, and final approval. (During this time, the crew is getting back so they can take delivery of rentals that had to be returned, equipment readied, etc etc. Feb 18th.
5)We shoot an episode in 8 days. Feb.27th.
6)Two weeks to edit. That is generous.
7) March 12th is the absolute earliest you would get a new show on the air. (at least my show that is.. can't speak to other productions)
Soooo... Mid March earliest. And I dont think that would happen. Figure your favorite shows could come back in early summer, with several already run thru editing, and ready to go.
Hope that helps..... and hope I get back to work soon.... -
...could have sworn that was evildgeek1's post lol.. ahh.. nm.....
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You do realize how ridiculous that sounds right? You make it sound like writing takes a day or so. You do realize scripts take months to write, don't you? And what exactly would directors and actors do without a script, no dialogue or story. That would be interesting... wait no, that would suck balls. How about you write a script, and then you can beak off about how it wasn't real work. Sorry, but what a stupid comment.
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the DGA's always been better at taking lousy deals.
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receive and look over the fine print of the DGA deal, not just the talking points. This will take time.
Some parts of the deal look good, others, not so much.
Pattern deals be damned, the WGA and SAG are under no obligation whatsoever to take the DGA deal if it isn't a fair one.
Everyone should understand SAG's got the WGA's back. Patric Verrone and Alan Rosenberg - presidents of the two guilds - are buddies who see very much eye to eye on these matters, and if the deal is not a fair one for the writers, they aren't going to take it, and the actors will support them in their decision.
The best thing everyone who's been supporting the WGA can do is continue to support them as they take a clear-eyed look at what the DGA got and decide on their next move.
Remember the only reason the WGA walked is the AMPTP backed them into a corner and put a knife to their throats. I want to see the knife is safely put away, not palmed and still at the ready. -
I'm going to check out Butterfly On A Wheel. Always like to expand my cinematic horizons. Some time ago, someone (I believe it was a one shot.)did a review on "Croupier." Had I not read that, I would have never seen such a great flick starring a then unknown, Clive Owen.And on anotehr subject; I also would love to give ol' Jennifer 10cc's of Man Paste myself yet I too(Emoting displaced sadnesss.) do not watch her show either.
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I'm going to check out Butterfly On A Wheel. Always like to expand my cinematic horizons. Some time ago, someone (I believe it was a one shot.)did a review on "Croupier." Had I not read that, I would have never seen such a great flick starring a then unknown, Clive Owen.And on anotehr subject; I also would love to give ol' Jennifer 10cc's of Man Paste myself yet I too(Emoting displaced sadnesss.) do not watch her show either.
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Wasn't that the other major negotiating point, doubling the DVD rate as well?
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Jan 18, 2008 12:46:05 AM CST
"he AMPTP backed them into a corner and put a knife to their thr
by tallboy66
Yeah, there isn't an overusage of extreme rhetoric in this strike at all. Yep. Perfectly clear headed here.
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It was never about money or residuals. It was about expanding the guilds reach by adding animation, games shows, reality TV and sympathy strikes to the WGA jurisdiction. Basically, the WGA wanted control over every show in Hollywood. The heads of the guild had to trick the writers into believing it was about money to get them to go along with a strike, so they sold them this story about new media.
Once the WGA members figure it out and realize they were out of work for months, some losing jobs, others black listed for good for their aggressive tactics, Patric Verrone and David Young are going to be lynched.
Once the dust settles we'll see a much bigger story unfold. -
For when movie downloads replace DVDs.
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have not seen him around since the AVP/R talkback. He really liked that movie though not to many others did. Then he vanished. Strange.
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The DGA caved in so quick. You know the studios are going to make a shit load off of downloads one day, so make a great deal today for tomorrow instead of the rip off from DVD residuals we've endured for years. Do what it takes. Ignore the DGA deal. The studios all make more than enough.
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Such compelling stories of fat people and insecure women who want to be skinny models.
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Once again, your comments are outlanish to the extreme. Everytime I read one of your missives, I feel like I am having a discussion with Jack Black.
You complete cock.
It was ALAWAYS about residuals. It was ALWAYS about new media.
If you have dwelled anywhere except AMPTP.org, you would have known the WGAs stance. But lucky us, you read something somewhere and that gives you a voice. I am BTL. Try the trenches.
Animation and reality writers WANT to join the WGA. I have PLENTY of links saying so. I'd like to see your links to articles saying that they do not.
The heads of the Guilds are trickies enough to get the ENTIRE 90% of the membership to vote for a strike but can't negotiate a deal with the AMPTP???
You are completely fucking with me. Or you are just that stupid.
The AMPTP NEVER wanted to negotiate with the WGA. This was said fucking months ago; the DGA is the weakest guild in terms of members. The WGA knew that they would be dealing with them first - the signals were there after the "rollbacks" on Dec 7th that they weren't going to deal with them fairly.
I say that The DGA is a good foundation, especially with the full disclousure on the distributors gross - hard to hide stuff on the internet what with counters and all - and their time line on downloads seems to be a middle ground. However, sympathy strikes were not addressed nor were the DVD residuals.
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Just wondering if there are any tb's that post regularly here. Surprised they are not updating us on what's been happening. I saw on TMZ that they are treated to free big boy burgers on a tab from Drey Carey when they flash their cards. And the bill is over 10k so far.
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People, there's a wacky little invention called e-mail. Writers from all over the world that aren't members of the WGA can send you scripts via e-mail attachments.
Time to think outside the box, guys. You don't need the WGA and those of us outside California are doing just fine without new episodes of fucking TWO AND A HALF MEN.
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You are as retarded as ZombieHunter. "Send the WGA an email". That'll work. You wish you wrote for "Two and Half Men". They're in syndication now. Charlie Sheen doesn't even have buy whores anymore...
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You are as retarded as ZombieHunter. "Send the WGA an email". That'll work. You wish you wrote for "Two and Half Men". They're in syndication now. Charlie Sheen doesn't even have to buy whores anymore...
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tied me to a pole and made me post twice.
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Jan 18, 2008 9:08:41 AM CST
No one has sufficiently explained to me why certain people...
by rbatty024
are anti-WGA? Are they just Republicans that irrationally hate unions no matter what? Maybe they're jealous that the screenplay they've worked on for years was never picked up while WGA members get their work on screen? Why in god's name would you hate on someone for wanting to get paid an appropriate amount for something he created. If you were a member of the WGA and worked regularly as a screenwriter/TV writer, then I guarantee you would want the same things.
There's also this common "argument" on these boards where you cite some crappy show, King of Queens or something, and say they don't want those writers getting any more money. First of all, do you want the producers of King of Queens to get more money, because it's going somewhere. Even if the show sucks, why wouldn't you want those who actually create to get a fair share? The reason these shows suck isn't as much the writer's fault (I'm sure there are plenty of talented writers that get stuck on crappy sitcoms to pay the bills) but the producers who think this is what the public wants. The public is also at fault for watching the show.
So, again, why are people upset at the WGA? Are you studio plants? Why? -
As a side note, why is no one talking about the headline from a few days ago that said 4 studios have cancelled 63 writers' contracts due to the strike? Why is there no more news about what new shows or projects are affected by this?
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To 'Gabba-UK' its not the studios who are talented...
To 'DeCypher44', 'skywalkerfamily', 'Stormshadow4life', 'Executor', Darth_Inedible', 'ZombieHunter', 'critch' and 'SpyGuy' AMPTP Plants/Stooges! And remember studios, nothing gets started w/o the writer creating the story...even for reality programming.
To 'drewlicious' what you call inept I call showing some spine and someone is making a ton of money, just check out any annual report these media congloms give to Wall Street.
To 'Jett' next time ask a director to create a scene without the writer.
To 'joeelliott' writers may not attract attention but the creative process cannot start until they start.
To 'BurgerKing' NO bad deals!
To 'Shivv' the DGA used the leverage given by the WGA's strike.
To 'MandalorianSage' like the studios aren't frackin greedy.
NO DEALS UNLESS IT IS A FAIR DEAL!
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I don't get people support the WGA. A grossly powerful organisation who hold monopoly over writers. You can't write for TV/Film unless you sign up for the union. Thats fucking scandalous.
They are also greedy fucks. Studio's front shows and films without knowing if they will be successful. They lose money on the majority of new shows and fuck knows how many films, but when they fund a successful project, they should share the profits with the writers. Why? Will the writers share the losses?! Like fuck they will.
I say ban these risiduals. Pay for scripts up front and leave it that. -
you blame the writers for the failure of a show but when a show succeeds it's not because of the writers, it's because of the studio who put up the cash? That is a massive leap in logic. Those successes would never have occurred except for the writer. Money is nothing without talent to back it up. Studios should get kudos for when they take risks, but I see very few risks being taken these days. Oh, and of course the writers share the losses, it's called unemployment! Yours is the most irrational, nonsensical diatribe I have heard yet about the WGA. This just further proves my point that no one has given me a good reason why they are anti-WGA.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com /id/22665291/
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Where is that dipshit that I argued with over the writer's strike? Fucker was going on and on and on about how the DGA and SAG were going to stand shoulder to shoulder with the WGA and they would break the Producers.. Well bud that sounds like a fantasy out of a bad hollywood script. As predicted the money talks..the dga is down the SAG will be soon..American Idol is on..Lost is coming back..tv is not crumbling and the good will the writers enjoyed early on has evaporated..the writer's will be broken..the few writers that are big time and worth it will get side deals for royalties while the rest burn..all you succeeded in doing was ruin the tv season for a few people..the stuff they have put on in replacement actually isn't that bad...nope the writer's strike means nothing to hollywood except putting thousands of innocent people out of work for the base aggrandizement of some over inflated egos of your precious "writers"
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Peolemay be mad at the WGA for putting countless thousands out of work for an indefinite amount of time just so that they can get extra residuals while the people they selfishly put out of work wont receive a dime and may not get the jobs they loved back anytime soon. That might be why a few of us are upset with th WGA
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the studios? Surely if the WGA is putting people out of work by negotiating for more money, then shouldn't the studios be blamed for not giving the WGA a reasonable compromise? Again, your argument doesn't make sense.
To those who mentioned that television isn't in shambles because of the writer's strike, I agree. However, it's only a matter of time. American Idol, once the reality television juggernaut, debuted with lower numbers than last year (4 million few viewers). This shouldn't be too surprising because shows lose viewers over time, but because of the strike they had no competition. That means that 4 million people decided they would rather watch repeats or not watch television at all. I think this is the sign of reality television fatigue. There are only four different kinds of reality television shows that get repeated over and over again. Lost is going to do well but who knows how many episodes they made before the strike interrupted the season. In another month or two things are starting to look very bleak. -
I didn't say "Send the WGA an e-mail," mastermind. I said the AMPTP can use writers from all over the world thanks to e-mail.
I think you need to work on that reading comprehension, my man...
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Well, If I walked up to my boss and asked for a raise and he said no...I'd quit and find one that paid what I wanted. I wouldn't make it to where everyone else, including people in unrelated departments had to lose their jobs because i wanted more money. Yeah, the producers are greedy and it sucks, but the writers are the ones that actively put countless people out of the job.
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American Idol debuted against a new Biggest Loser and the Mimi Series Comanche Moon..plenty of people were watching tv and not repeats or doing something else..with new survivor, Big Brother etc..coming down the pipe there is no need to bother with the WGA the season is scrapped there is no need to make a deal now they can just lasy siege until the WGA caves.
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Jan 18, 2008 10:25:04 AM CST
People are made at the WGA because of the demand for residuals
by spyguy
If artists create paintings and sell them, should they be paid every time someone looks at the painting? If contractors put in toilets, should they get paid every time the toilet flushes? No, if you do the job once and get paid for it, then that's it.
Any creative artist that produces a work for a specific medium, gets paid for that work and then wants even more money when the medium is eventually released again in a new format is being greedy. You want more money? Then produce a new work and sell it. This whole notion of being paid multiple times for copying the same work into different formats is nothing but greed, pure and simple.
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See what happens when you get me all worked up?
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All right this is getting tedious but I'll respond again. You see, the studios are also getting paid multiple times for the same product. They have sued web sites like Youtube claiming that they are infringing on their rights to make money off said products. Besides, haven't you ever heard of copyright laws? People make residuals off their product in many different industries, so are you prepared to attack inventors and drug companies? Why are the writers being greedy (when they actually created the product) and the studios aren't? It's a double standard and it makes it pretty clear that your opinion is based in bias rather than logic.
Lecter, I'm sorry you do not have the bargaining power to get a raise, but do not begrudge others who have such power. Collective bargaining is pretty common and a legitimate practice. As people have noted, the studios have lots of money. They are the holders of the purse who can afford to take the risks on these products. These funds, and the ability to sacrifice some of them by not negotiating, gives them an advantage. In order to offset this advantage the writers have formed a union to increase their bargaining power. It's a legitimate tactic. You also did not satisfactorily answer why you blame the writer's instead of the studios for putting people out of work. The studios could easily meet the demands of the WGA and get people back to work immediately. The WGA didn't start anything. Their contract was up and both sides wanted to negotiate. Technology is changing and it is perfectly reasonable to want to make money off of internet sales when the studios are attempting the same thing.
Internet Thug, I don't think Comanche Moon has the same draw you think it does. A sequel to a twenty year old miniseries isn't exactly n Nielsen ratings winner. But don't take my word for it, here's an article speculating on the ratings effect the strike has had:
http://tinyurl.com/2ow5lv
Like I said, it's not a crisis yet but there are problems on the horizon for the studios. We've also seen The Weinstein Company and United Artists both make ancillary deals with the WGA. Can the other studios hold out when both companies start making new projects while the other studios are relying on already rejected scripts? Time will tell. -
Because I hate unions. All unions. And yes, I know that they were instrumental in getting the companies they worked for to make the workplace safe and create the 40 hour work week, etc. But that shit happened 100 YEARS AGO! Can anyone please tell me what good unions have done in this country in the last 20 years? Because I can't think of anything except almost driving the US car makers into bankruptcy.
I might not hate the WGA so much if thier fight was JUST about money. But it's not. Zombiehunter is correct when he said, "It was about expanding the guilds reach by adding animation, games shows, reality TV and sympathy strikes to the WGA jurisdiction." The studios will N E V E R allow this. Never. It's a non-starter. So don't expect this strike to end until the WGA gives up those items.
I'm telling you guys, unions breed mediocrity. They're outdated and worthless. -
Writers sell a script to a studio, at which point it becomes the studio's property to do with whatever they freaking want. The idea that that writers want residual income for the exact same work copied into a different format is not only unreasonable, it's being greedy.
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I never said writing took a day, but I stand by that it is the easiest part of a production. Writers have no part in raising money, no part in the actual production of a show or movie past the script. Many times the directors and actors will rewrite the script on set. In the case of "The Incredible Hulk", the entire script was rewritten on set by Edward Norton. In the case of "Star Trek" J.J. Abrams was prevented from changing a line and a scene because of the writers strike. Is the service the writers provide important? Of course. But comparatively to what the directors and actors do (Also for months, btw), the writers don't do a whole lot. And when it's between the group that simply writes and the ones that, you know, put up the millions of dollars to produce something, I think that the ones that put up the money should be the ones that get the money. Writers, successful writers mind you, make far more than the median. The average pay for a WGA writer is $72,000. I don't understand why they deserve residuals when they play absolutely zero part in the production/distribution and most times even promotion of the product.
As I said, as far as residuals, Pay the directors. Pay the actors. Pay the producers. The writers are well paid considering their role in the production, and they are well credited. And considering the temper tantrum the WGA has pulled, putting hundreds out of work and threatening two already threatened industries, I would not blame the studios for simply shutting out anyone with a guild card. -
Did you say hundreds out of work. Try Thousands.
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Y'really think the striking writers just go home at night and put their feet up after a hard days picketing? Forget fickleness and pessimism - these guys (most, at least) are WRITERS. They're going home, thinking up the most awesome shows for us, writing them in their own time, without input from senior staff, and working together to make themselves look good when they finally return. I say we refer to the strike as a 'vacation' for the writers, regardless of the politics, and they'll all return fresh and brimming with ideas.
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I hope they are enjoying their vacationsand I hope the burgsrs are delicious. I also wonder what the people who are involuntarily out of work are doing for their vacations.
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The writers don't have the power to hire or fire anyone. The studios have enough money to keep the "below the line" folks on the payroll until negotiations are completed, if they really care about jobs being lost. They also have the ability to, as SpyGuy suggested, bypass the union entirely if they so choose and get everyone except the strikers back to work.
So why haven't they done either of these things? -
"Writers sell a script to a studio, at which point it becomes the studio's property to do with whatever they freaking want. The idea that that writers want residual income for the exact same work copied into a different format is not only unreasonable, it's being greedy."
There's usually some sort of contract, especially if the script isn't unsolicited or you have an agent. This line of argument just shows that you really don't understand what the strike is about. What it's about is that new technology hadn't really been covered in pre-existing contracts, and yet studios are continuing to profit from internet sales. The entire business of movies and TV has always dealt with residuals, whether it be with home movie sales or syndication. Someone is always making money off of these works. By your argument, money should only ever change hands once. And that's just not how the business works. -
Some of you clearly have no experience in writing either. Watch the Blade Runner documentary on the recently released set and then tell me with a straight face that a writer's job is done after they turn in their script to production. Your arguments are uninformed.
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I agree with Agony that you are seriously underestimating the role of writing and how difficult it is. Have you ever tried to write anything? At all? Maybe a paper in high school? The thought that goes into a ten page argument paper is time consuming enough, let alone a 100 pg script. You gave two examples, and while I'm sure there are more, often writers are on set reworking their product. Actors almost NEVER rewrite a script, that was an unusual case. And let's not forget TV, in which the director comes on set, films what he was given, and leaves at the end of the day, while the writers continually create storylines and edit drafts. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling. Also, how are actors more responsible for quality than writers? Great actors appear in shitty shitty movies, and if the movie is shitty it's usually because of poor writing and/or direction more than poor acting.
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Since I obviously don't understand what the strike is about, let me see if I can grasp what you're arguing.
STUDIO: "We'll pay you X amount of money for your movie script, which will be featured in theaters and home video. Sign on the dotted line if you agree."
WRITER: "Okay, I agree. Here's my signature. My script is all yours now."
(TIME PASSES)
WRITER: "Hey, Studio! What are you doing selling copies of your movie on iTunes?! Where's my money?"
STUDIO: "What do you mean, where's your money? You already signed a contract. We paid you what we owe you."
WRITER: "Yeah, I know, but you couldn't buy movies on iTunes when I signed it. So now I want a piece of what you're making."
STUDIO: "But you can't go back and change what you already agreed to after the fact."
WRITER: "Oh, yes I can. And if you don't pay me, I'm going on strike with all my writer pals."
So, does that pretty much cover it?
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They're negotiating for all future projects, not looking for backpay on those that are already finished.
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They are going to roll over just as quickly, they have to. The studios have set their parameters for a deal and will not move.
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There are many different kinds of copyrights and publishing rights, but what you are talking about, where there's a flat fee for the author, who then relinquishes all subsequent rights, is but one kind. And in that case, you're right. But professionals do not sign contracts like this, that's more for first-timers. Most of the contracts in place did not account for internet publishing that noone could have forseen. No one knew just how big the DVD market was going to be, and that the industry of the theatres was going to diminish. And like password.swordfish said, they are negotiating for future works. These are basically the same battles that are being fought within the music industry right now as well. The landscape has changed but the model of doing business has not. Studios thought no one would notice them making extra money, which they apparently feel entitled to since they're taking a bath due to lower theatre attendence. If you think that's fair, there's not much I can say to persuade you. But if someone was making money off of your work due to either a loophole or a poorly worded contract, I bet you'd feel screwed too. And the toilet analogy doesn't work. Noone else is making money when you take a dump.
And don't count out the WGA just yet. If I remember correctly, a similar situation happened during the 80's strike, with the Directors coming to an agreement first. We'll have to see what happens with the Oscars, and to a lesser extent, the Grammys to see if there's still battles to be won. And as far as effects of the strike, we haven't really felt them yet. Wait until 2009, when all there is to see is Garfield 3 and Black-Man-in-Woman-Fat-Suit: The Return. The studios are, in fact, concerned about future income. -
Not by a long shot. And I know that everybody who works in film will probably say that their section of the process is "not the easiest," but writing is a massive internal struggle of self-worth, compromise, hard-to-comprehend creativity and extremely taxing. Even with the bad shows, so much work is put into them that it's not even fair to call it easy, so I feel you're doing the writers an extreme disservice.
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There are so many bizarre assumptions about what writers do and how contracts work that it's mind-boggling.
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Holy Christ, lady, hold it together. You're falling apart, live on the interweb. Half your post makes no sense. I can almost see you blubbering as you write in a fitfull rage, pounding at your keyboard with a bucket of Haagen Dazs beside you..."Damn you Zombie Hunter!....If in fact that is your real name! Why must you always be so right!"
Everything you've ever said has been completly wrong. I know, it stings. Right now members of the union are sharpening knives at looking at the throats of Guild leaders.
And that "network of dessent, looks like that was true as well and you were wrong....AGAIN. What will your story be when you see outright rebellion in the WGA ranks? -
you make me laugh. I am flattered that you are daydreaming about me.
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Please, I don't get it. I'm not in the entertainment industry, I don't know the specifics, but the WGA strike seems silly to me. It looks like the writers want their pay to be sensitive to the performance of their project, but only if that means money for them. They seem to be demanding that the studios or networks give them more money if their show/film does well, but still want a pay raise regardless of their project's performance. I get if they want their pay to be performance based, but it seems they only want that if their performance generates money, and doesn't lose money like the majority of films and tv shows. I would agree with them if they would shoulder some of the financial loss that the majority of the writers' projects face, but they just want "the man" to deal with that ... unless "the man" makes money. Morally, it would be justified for the writers to demand a larger share of the profits, only if they would be willing to accept a larger share of the loss; but that doesn't seem to be the case. I have no invested interest in the strike (besides a distaste of reality tv), just please, somebody explain this to me. None of the pro-strike people on this site seem so have put forth a good case besides saying "fuck the man." Only it does appear that "the man" is getting fucked here.
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Add to that the WGA has been trying to take over animation, et al for years but never have. And they never will unless they can strong arm the studios. They also see reality shows becoming more popular and want that as part of their union empire as well. In short, their goal is to expand the reach of their guild.
The average member could care less about that, so to get them to vote for a strike the leaders of the WGA sold them this story of being wronged by the studios. And instead of negotiating a new contract with the studios months ahead like the DGA or SAG, they waited until it ran out, then began negotiants so they had the threat of a strike over the heads of the studio.
Now many writers realize that they have been out of work for months, some losing contracts with no work to go back to while others doing the bidding of the guild to be as obnoxious as hell have made themselves persona non grata in Hollywood and will never work again...all because Pat Verrone and David Young wanted to make their union more powerful.
This has caused friction within the WGA as many have turned on guild leaders and others have left the strike. Some are organizing outright rebellion. Many are putting pressure on leaders to take a deal much like the DGA and to stop acting so aggressive.
But others have invested so much into acting like self righteous pricks accusing anyone who disagrees with them with threats that they have to believe they are doing the right thing, least they be forced to admit they acted like compleat assholes whose narcissism cost people money and jobs. Theres a word for that, it's called Cognitive Dissonance. Therefor, it's become too hard for these people to end the strike: they've dug themselves in too deep.
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