Jan. 15, 2008, 3:14 a.m. CST
Jan. 15, 2008, 3:20 a.m. CST
Well, I really wish they'd been given one more season on television, because I'm fairly sure that's all they would have done anyway; it would have given them time to have a planned ending. As it is, I guess we'll have to make do with this. It actually sounds quite good but it can never be quite the same thing, unfortunately.
Jan. 15, 2008, 3:48 a.m. CST
At least no one said first like a fucking moron! The new Buffy and Angel comics are the only ones I buy. Back in the day I used up a lot of dough on comics but it got too expensive. They are doing a great job continuing the story.
Jan. 15, 2008, 3:56 a.m. CST
Joss Whedon is writing a new Serenity comic too.
Jan. 15, 2008, 4:04 a.m. CST
Thanks, so much. Love the art on Everybody's Dead too. Lynch is a twisted, funny guy. "Gumdrops" *snicker*
Jan. 15, 2008, 6:07 a.m. CST
I haven't read comic books in about 20 years but my brother got me the Angel and Buffy books for the holidays. I'm surprised at how well they fit into the Buffyverse.
Jan. 15, 2008, 7:17 a.m. CST
I've been in the comic business as a retailer for a little over 20 years, and have worked in both the East Coast (MA) and the midwest (IN). That said, the sales on Season Six will begin dropping radically here very soon, and I'll check over at Diamond, but I'm sure they have already dropped. The art is HORRORIFIC! It's god awful, make the baby jesus cry, and the customers run away...BAD. Hell, in the first issue I had customers asking me who characters were. The SPOILER ALERT big moment at the end where a character is vamped out was so badly rendered that most readers weren't 100% sure it was GUN, I even went back to an earlier part of the issue to make sure the shirt the character was wearing was the same. I've gone from ordering 30 copies of issue one to 10 of number 3. There's ALWAYS a drop off in orders from issue 1 to 3, but to have a drop of 20 issues, well, that isn't a good sign. The drop in buffy has been, over 10 issues, about 8 copies all together, and it seems to be bouncing back up in the numbers department. Angel on the other hand had hard core Angel fans being taken off of pull lists after a SINGLE issue. A great story can carry some not so great art, but this art isn't NOT SO GREAT, it's AWFUL. I hope it gets turned around soon.
Jan. 15, 2008, 7:24 a.m. CST
...than the actual comic?<p> seriously, Lynch's writing is great and the ideas he's sketched out are fantastic but the current art sucks donkey cock. is this is an indication that it will improve?
Jan. 15, 2008, 7:48 a.m. CST
"first like a fucking moron".<p> there, somebody said it.
Jan. 15, 2008, 8:56 a.m. CST
Yep, as Bedlamite said, the artwork makes this book unreadable for me, which is a shame, since the TV show was great and the comic's story is pretty good. Not only was the Big Reveal at the end of issue #1 completely botched, but Gwen and the werewolf gal looked identical! Same outfits, same hair - take away the colors and I dare you to tell them apart. And could he at least ATTEMPT to match the actors' appearances? The actress who played Gwen wishes she had a chest like the one in the comic! The Buffy comic, by contrast, definitely tries to keep it "real" and not make every female character a Byrne/Liefeld blow-up doll, like the artist does here.
Jan. 15, 2008, 11:21 a.m. CST
The art in issue 1 was gorgeous. Issue 2 didn't look as good, but it's still better than the Buffy art, where the only way you can tell that it's Andrew is by reading the dialog and Faith looks like a SPED kid. What were people smoking that they didn't know it was Gunn on the last page? I had no problem recognizing him.
Jan. 15, 2008, 1:02 p.m. CST
Why in the fuck wouldn't I state the obvious? How does the FACT 99% of comics drop off after the first issue have any bearing on a customer buying a book? Retailers buy more #1's of ANY book, after that we start cutting orders. That in NO WAY affects sales to a potential customer. Not unless we sold out of it...which I didn't...unfortunately. Regardless if they are selling out fast or not retailers start cutting back on the numbers of issues ordered. People are more likely to buy a #1 to check it out, and then may or may not come back for #2. This book had such horrible art workt that my customers, several hard core Angel fans, are already complaining. As for the Buffy art, I've heard no such complaints about the Buffy art from customers, and compared to Angel, it's amazing. You don't sound like the kind of customer that goes to a LCS, because those guys and gals usually have enough sense to put on a hold, subscription, folder, pull list. Which you were not bright enough to do, and so you missed issue 1. I don't know to many customers that wouldn't ask to have a "HOT" new book held. As for screwing my BUSINESS...KOKOMO COMICS in North Central Indiana (thanks for the free plug). I've learned that telling customers that a horrible piece of shit is German Chocolate cake only acts to make them question my other suggestions. HEY, try this horrible piece of shit that I'm using my rep as the "COMIC GUY" to sell you, OH IT SUCKED ASS, well try another helping. NO THANKS. I'll happily lose sales on one shitty book to sell 20 more copies of 5 other great books: WALKING DEAD, THUNDERBOLTS, AMELIA RULES (when it comes out), BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS, or the UMBRELLA ACADEMY. So, no. I'm not screwing my business. I'm building a relationship with my customers that they can trust, and feel confident in when I suggest something to them. However, because I know my customers fairly wel (after they've been coming in for a few months) I can cater to what I think they dig. Not everone likes Whedon (I know crazy, but true), the they LOVE The Shield. That's cool, I can offer them something up their alley.
Jan. 15, 2008, 1:04 p.m. CST
by rock-me Amodeo
Oddly, I found I could almost sing it to the tune of "The Beverly Hillbillies." Now I can't get it out of my head.
Jan. 15, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST
Angel #2. I've got first prints of both covers, and the variant that I'd happily sell you. Seeing as your LCS doesn't have it (they could call Diamond and get you a second print, I called for you, and they have those ready to ship). Seeing as I didn't sell as many #2's as #1's...due to the DROP OFF, I can hook you up.
Jan. 15, 2008, 2:03 p.m. CST
What are WE smoking? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?!? The artwork on Angel is god awful. I'm partially color blind, and thought it was just me, but several customers have griped about that art as well. To each their own I suppose. I'm glad you dig it.
Jan. 15, 2008, 2:46 p.m. CST
by Brians Life
...it's bad. Not bad with style, as some people like. It's just bad...you can tell when the artist is not drawing from reference photos. Anytime a character has to emote something he doesn't have a stock photo for....it's AWFUL. I'm an artist and I've NEVER looked at a book (I like) and said "I can do that better", but I can.
Jan. 15, 2008, 3:07 p.m. CST
that alternate dimension where the art in Angel: After the Fall *is* actually better than the Buffy season 8 art.<p> I mean, i get that Jeanty's Andrew was unrecognisable and the Faith art was sometimes overly-stylised, but another poster was spot on when they pointed out that Urru's Gwen Raiden and Urru's Nina are the same chick, except different colouring. Also Urru's Illyria, except for her red leather digs.
Jan. 15, 2008, 5:26 p.m. CST
mainly because I don't have an LCS, so I don't read a lot of comic books. I judge on story and art when I buy a book and based on that art I wouldn't buy it. It's ugly art
Jan. 15, 2008, 6:37 p.m. CST
The art has its moments, but overall it's bad. Rarely can I look at what is considered a quality book and say that I can do better than that. A friend and I argued over a scene in the book because neither one of could agree with what the hell was going on. Giving the artist the benefit of the doubt I'll say the art looks rushed. The black and white inks in the post look good, but that's not what I'm seeing in the Angel comic. The coloring also looks a bit too gimmicky for my tastes, but that's just me. The writing is fantastic, but the art is really hampering my enjoyment of the book. I hate bashing another artist and if this guy was just starting out on something small, I'd be more sympathetic, but this is freakin' Angel. God, I wish Dark Horse had gotten the rights. :(
Jan. 15, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST
I recognized the Gunn character immediately ... because he was a black guy with a bald head. How many are in Angel? I acknowledge the criticisms of the art in Buffy, but with very few exceptions it's "good enough" for me. The Angel art isn't about recognizing who is who. It's just that it is bad. My yardstick for comic art in general these days is, please God, let it not suck. So, when you can't do that ...
Jan. 15, 2008, 6:48 p.m. CST
Granted, thy've had some good moments, and the last issue was definitely compelling and humorous. Also, one of the most important pieces of news in this article: A new Muppet movie is being done.
Jan. 15, 2008, 7:16 p.m. CST
The consensus is pretty much that Angel's art blows. Pretty resoundingly. For me, the story set-up in general is much stronger than the Buffy book, which really does feel like Season 7.5 at the moment. But the Faith arc was definitely an improvement, and the last stand-alone was a nice touch. With Angel, they've blown up his world again, and I love it.
Jan. 15, 2008, 9:49 p.m. CST
Different strokes and all that jazz. I'm happy with it, so yay me!
Jan. 15, 2008, 9:52 p.m. CST
newc0253 is right about Nina and Gwen. This guy is just no good at drawing real women. He's a bit too T&A for my tastes, but since they're barely in it I guess it hasn't annoyed me to the point of overshadowing the rest of the art for me.
Jan. 16, 2008, 8:52 a.m. CST
The subject says it all. Still not awe inspiring, but a little better.
Jan. 17, 2008, 8:24 a.m. CST
I'm going to start out by saying I am enjoying the story and characterizations in both titles and am extremely happy to have them. I'm not eveng angry about my favorite character, Spike, getting his but kicked by Angel in issue 2 so easily. Spike has been drinking and screwing while Angel's been fighting. It makes sense Spike has lost enough of his edge to put up a good fight just yet.<br> Part of what angers me about the art looking so bad is it looks rushed and lazy. As if they don't have to bother making it look good or resemble the actors because the fans will eat it up regardless. I think they are finding that's not the case at all.<br> Yes, I've read here and else where that they have said they intentionally are not trying to make the characters looks like the actors who played them. It sounded like a bullshit excuse then and it sounds like one now. One of the best things about the production side of both series was their casting choices.The actors made them their own.<br> In both books, this doesn't look like a case of artistic license and freedom of character nterpretations. It looks like half ass scribbling in a high school students notebook while he is bored in study hall.<br> This work looks like they just roughly get the shape of the heads and distinctive features like hair and the rest is just representative of features, not actual drawing of noses etc. Especially in the Angel series,it's all so thread bare and coloring book minimum. The "backgrounds" are just blotchy shadows and squiggly lines. Their are no planes or levels or curves to the faces, just shapes with lines. You get almost no sense of proportions or scale or depth or field. I hope the feedback from this and pretty much the entire rest of the world get through and they do something about it. It would be a crime for these great stories to be cut short or dropped because of lazy contemporaneous artwork.
Jan. 17, 2008, 1:53 p.m. CST
I can't even find the comics anywhere. I got the first ATF and now i'm two behind. Fuck, I miss Angel. I don't buy Gunn as a villain though,maybe Wesley but not Gunn.
Jan. 17, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST
Slight spoiler, but if it makes you feel any better, Gunn's motivation is to prove he can be a vampire hero with out a soul. In part to show Angel up but also in part to try and deny and fight what has happened to him. He does NOT like to be called a vampire. Problem is he yells and insists he is a good guy while beating on the person who called him a vampire. I really feel sorry for him.
Jan. 17, 2008, 7:50 p.m. CST
Sweet issue. Spike working with Connor, possible Fred return, Angel is NOT a Vampire?!? Story's zipping along here. And the art, while still not great, was MUCH less offensive this issue.
Jan. 17, 2008, 9:47 p.m. CST
shouldn't this be in aicn comics? just sayin...
Jan. 20, 2008, 11:27 a.m. CST
On the art for #3. I have to say, it's better, and in some places, much better. I liked the dragon a lot. Artwise, I thought the story flowed better too. I hope it continues.
Jan. 21, 2008, 7:08 a.m. CST
not a whole lot better, but an improvement over the art in the first two.<p> the story continues to be excellent, although i spotted one plot hole: Conner explains that Spike is playing a man of leisure 'during the day' while going around saving people 'at night'. but the sun and moon are out 24/7, so how can there be any distinction between night and day? Unless he was speaking figuratively of course.