Cool News
Big TREK update! Footage seen! Script read! Tidbits galore!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I ran a story a few days back about Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru test that features in JJ Abrams' STAR TREK. It was about how Kirk cheated his way out of a no-win situation (in this case he used his sexual man-charms on a lovely cadet and got her to alter the programming). It was a rumor from an untested source, but a regular source quickly followed up the story with a confirmation. Not only that, but I also got a quicky review of the complete script, which I've cut and pasted below. It's decidedly mixed. Below that I'll return with another bit from yet another proven source regarding a piece of footage shot recently.
Quint: I saw your STAR TREK story and wasn't going to say anything, but since you know me... yeah, I can confirm the rumor you posted about the script. I wasn't going to say anything because I got slipped the shooting script and really didn't love it, but I respect J.J. Abrams so much that I'm withholding judgment on the final product (but wish this writer's strike weren't happening because reports are he's been itching to make some "on the set" changes and can't do it). The problem with the script is all its blatant inconsistency with things in the TREK canon, not to be innovative... but because Kurtzman and Orci are lousy writers and have zero feel for Roddenberry's universe, even when attempting to reboot it. The dialogue is about on par with their past works and some of the liberties they've taken are insanely sloppy. (Forgive me, wasn't the Enterprise built in space and not Area 51?) It's remarkably unintelligent writing. (FYI: I also read their upcoming Fox pilot called FRINGE which may be the most blatant X-FILES rip off ever.) The character of young Kirk is a travesty. He's the bad boy of the Academy, which is consistent in many ways, but the whole "Kobayashi" matter is overtly ridiculous. It turns Kirk into the worst scourge of all of Starfleet! At his graduation there are actual protestors outside the ceremony carrying signs stating: KIRK CHEATED! Talk about on the nose. They probably look like striking writers. So, Kirk is put in command of a starship under great controversy and has to prove himself to not only Starfleet, but also his new crew who are wary of him and his bad rep. While this may sound okay, the way it's written is so ham fisted that it makes the TRANSFORMERS script read like Shakespeare. Actually, the character of both young and old Spock works well and is consistent with the TREK canon, but I'm pretty sure that's because of Nimoy's involvement. Young and old Spock do meet and there's a clever, as well as TREK consistent, reason why young Spock's foreknowledge of events won't create problems in the future. There's a lot of action in this piece, which is welcome, but the Romulan villains are perfunctory. My problem with time travel bad guys is what's to prevent them from looping back and trying their plan again and again whenever they fail? I'm sure Bana got a lot of money to do this inconsequential character. I think curiosity and Abrams' rep will ensure this movie makes major bucks, but as far as re-launching STAR TREK with a whole new younger crew, no way. This is a novelty item that would probably not please Roddenberry purists, but would any of the recent Treks? One thing's for sure, as lackluster as this script is... it's better than any Berman produced STAR TREK just due to the fact that it's big and has some scope. I just wish the character of Kirk weren't written as if in a dumb after school special. Shatner will have a field day ripping into the rather sleazy portrayal of his classic character. While he may have always been a skirt chaser, making him a lousy student seems like they're trying too hard to appeal to a real young audience who has the menu to Taco Bell memorized. I could say more, but will withhold judgment due to a talented director, big budget and strong cast.
Now we have someone that claims to have seen some footage. This is probably the sketchiest of the group of Trek info... this one's not a terribly known source to me (unlike the above source and the one that ends this article), but it's interesting to say the least... It's not so much a scoop, but kind of a general feel of what the Enterprise might be like.
I've seen some footage of the new Star Trek flick and I must say I am impressed. I am not a Trekkie and I am not working for the movie industry. It was due to other reasons I got to visit the production faclities and people showed me some scenes that showed what I would call "the Star Trek world". Let me explain. If you watch the TV series and many of the movies than - if you are a Star Wars fan like me - you always have the feeling that there is a discrepancy between the size of the alien worlds / the space ship(s) of the Federation and the locations where most of the scenes have been shot. In other words, the Bridge is more like a living room and does not match the size nor style of gigantic size of the Enterprise at all. It is certainly unbelievable because it's mostly the only place we get to see (and of course three or four other places, but all in all just 1 percent of the ship, I presume). We'll, this movie is gonna end all that for sure. The "stage play" and Disney like nature of the TV episodes is gone, the "we'll only show you three locations but trust me, this really is a gigantic spaceship we're flying around in"-feeling will also be gone. I would argue that this movie is making use of the Star Wars like decors (as implemented later in the sequels and used immediately in the prequels) therefore expanding our universe more directly (leaves less room for imagination) and making the story a lot more believable, at least to me. I thought it was very cool. Not sure if the Trekkies will like this move though. By the way when I saw the new look of the Enterprise, I just wanted to go out and buy a model kit of that or something. I'm quite sure it will get as much positive response as the Milennium Falcon did. Yes, the stuff is that detailed.
And the final one of the night could be a major one... it's a small matter, but this could be the visual hand-off between old Spock and new Spock. It sounds a little fanboy-ish, but this source has been proven right before and who's a bigger fan than Abrams? The source begins by mentioning that there's speculation that the movie is an Old Spock/Young Spock buddy picture...
i wouldn't take it that far. but it reminded me of the visual "handoff" they shot two weeks ago where nimoy's hand (vulcan greeting) is replaced in the frame by quinto's hand. j.j. actually spent a lot of time on it. finally, got it by setting up an extra monitor to help quinto hit his mark. it will only be a brief moment in the film, but apparently this sort of visual "handoff" from nimoy to quinto was important enough to warrant dozens of takes.
Well, there's a good triple dose of Trek rumors to entertain you over the weekend. Thanks to my unnamed sources.
Readers Talkback
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probably not.
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I think I can die happy now that I've been "first".
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Jan. 5, 2008, 5:40 a.m. CST
They will do MANY re-shoots after the strike is over
by DarthMrBelvedere
of course they will. This movie HAS to work and make a lot of dollars or many, many, many, many Paramount employees will lose heir jobs
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I'm hoping there'll be a 20-minute totally hilarious skit where the Enterprise and its crew hide in Kirk's backyard!
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With every tidbot of news this things sounds worse and worse. if the script is that awful (and it sure as hell sounds like it is utter shite) they should just go on hiatus until the strike is over and then hire some real scribes to unfuck the whole project.
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WHYWHYWHY? I JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND? Because of that suckfest MI3??? Plus Kurtzman and Orci have never written any good: Zorro2? MI3? Transformers? Fuckin hacks all of them! BUT KEEP UP AICN! SUCK THEIR COCK!!
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Jan. 5, 2008, 5:58 a.m. CST
So this is basically James Cameron's Terminator time travel deal
by nopix
RIGHT?
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Jan. 5, 2008, 6:01 a.m. CST
Oh bollocks - maybe Enterprise didn't do that much damage...
by Charlie & Tex
...as at least the spirit of Rodenberry was there (or in the final series). If this movie is a box of shit, then it looks like it rests squarely on the heads of the writers, as JJ Abrams has a real feel for the universe, and you have to feel for the poor bastard not being able to iron out wrinkles in the thing which he's doomed to cop shit for upon release. We all remember how well Nemesis turned out with a writer who didn't know the trek universe at the helm ("...but I watched all of the movies in preparation, and I want this bit, this piece, that bit...") and we can still hope that things can be changed once the deadlock has been broken - reshoots are a proud tradition of the Berman era Trek movies...uh-oh...
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Classic/Original Star Trek was all about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and their interaction. Hopefully they have enough purists onset to keep things en par. I'm crossing my fingers but won't get my hopes up.
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I am very happy with all of that news. I am very sorry that they don't seem to have found a cameo for Shatner. I still hope they do, even though it'd be tricky to fit Kirk into a story that doesn't make the aleady choppy timeline seem too ridiculous. Anyway the strike gives the fim makers time to work on the script. A similar thing happened to Spielberg when he found himself working on character development in lieu of the faulty mechanical shark.
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Just who in holy fuck are they making this movie for?<BR><BR>Most people who aren't into Star Trek aren't going to see any thing with the words Star Trek in the title (or be fooled when they call the show just Enterprise, for that matter)and Star Trek fans don't want and for the most part don't support the notion of a non-Shatner Kirk.<BR><BR>I love Star Trek. I have been a Trekkie since before people even thought of the alternative moniker "Trekker" and I have a radical suggestion: Let Star Trek Die. The only thing that will be accomplished by trying to beat this horse any further is the sullying of what has already come.
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Apparently, his account got fucked up and AICN is ignoring his pleas for help. <p> We need the Cthulhu dance, dammit! <p> Spread the word.
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mark it on the calendar and always remember that you were proved wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt on this day. Now get off your XBOX and go out on a date.
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I dont care about the continuity since this is a reboot anyway. But what they are doing to Kirk's character is almost heresy! I'll still watch it (unless I hear terrible reviews) and see how it pans out but I am wary now.
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What has he done? He gave up on Alias halfway through. He really ISN't involved with lost, just has his name on it and directed the pilot. MI3 is just alias on the big screen. and now this.... ?????????? He hasn't earned shit yet.
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and you will never replicate the charm and atmosphere of the original even with dodgy flying rubber puke monsters and scary Ass head aliens But none of the movies were any use except Wrath Of Kahn and all the recent Trek stuff I've never watched so i'm looking forward to a big budget StarTrek that can finally do the Universe justice in scale even if it has a cast of OC like teens, so did Starship Troopers and that worked!
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Trust me
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... after birthing that abomination TINO, they have moved on to ruining Star Trek. If that script description is true this film is going to be utter shit.<br><br> And did I read that right? They're going to make Kirk the captain of the Enterprise right after he graduates from the Academy??? That's bullshit, we all know Kirk worked on several starships before he earned his own command, even though he was the youngest captain in the fleet. <br><br> I think Star Trek Nemesis is about to get a new companion in the "shittest Trek film ever" department.
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This is a story that doesn't need to be told and will do little more then leave the old-guard fans insulted. JJ Abrams, if you wanted to do something neat and inventive for Star Trek you should have gone with a new group of characters with a different story-line. Or better yet, just make something spacey that isn't even Star Trek. This has Epic Fail written all over it.
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with my balls
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Yes, but most importantly will Kirk fuck a green bitch ?
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Unless there be Klingon boobies...
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With no natural talent or smarts. Great. <P> And they put him in command of a ship, fresh out of the academy? Not as a junior officer or anything? Oookay then.
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I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHEN 'THE MIST' WILL BE RELEASED IN THE UK!!!!!! PLEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEE!!!!!!!
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Is there way of trying to get the same demographic in the theatre. Oh...joy.
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...but I will wait til I see the finished product to swing the hammer of judgment. And damn right the Enterprise was built in spacedock!
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Why on Earth is Kirk put in command of Enterprise right out of the Academy? Also, Enterprise was built at the San Fransico Shipyards, wasn't it? (I could be wrong, I'm not the 'geek' I used to be). Is Robert Aprile going to be in this? I've heard Pike is, but why is that? Pike was a young captain, so he probably wasn't in command of Enterprise when Kirk graduated the Academy. (Oh yeah, I forgot, Kirk is put in command straight out of the Academy) lol
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Weren't we promised another 20 days Q&A with Sly before the release of RAMBO?
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I can buy that Kirk was a carousing asshole with raw talent. It was always made clear that he is a damaged individual, and in fact I think it's his obsession with women (perhaps trying to fill some emotional void in his life... no pun intended) that makes him the perfect starship captain, since he just transfered his obsession to his ship and his crew. Sure he still "gets to know" strange women, but his first love is always the Enterprise. I can buy all that... but Area 51?! WTF!! I am hoping beyond hope that the name was used in the script as a placeholder for a name they hadn't come up with yet, or that it's shorthand for dock 51 of an orbital shipyard.
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He spelled out to the letter the plot line of Shatners Kirk's Acadamy years novel, and NOT the movie.... THAT IS NOT THE MOVIE. Seriously Quint how could you even post this... even the crew have not seen more than the pages they are shooting. The security on this set rivals Cloverfield. Your doing a real disservice posting this guys lie.
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about the only thing we DO know about this script is the ship is build in space, as the teaser attached to Cloverfield is the ship being built..... IN SPACE OVER SAN FRANSISCO
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Aww man they made Kirk into a young tool when he should be a stud. Right on the money here-expectations are now drastically lowered :(
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Kirk graduates and is given a ship immediately? <p> The Enterprise is built at Area 51? <p> This sounds like a ton of crap.
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WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT STAR TREK!!!
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If Kirk doesn't say MY BAD. I'm not going.
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seriously. does this talkback remind you of anything? Yeah, when you pissed all over the Transformers mythology. The film should make money but we will still hate you.
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Yadda yadda yadda...Most movies receiving negative reviews still make sh*tloads of money and most important: I tend to like 9 out of 10 of those movies. What do Pirates of the Carribbean 3, Alvin and the Chipmunks and the German animation flick Lissie und der Wilde Kaiser have in common? They all got horrid reviews and I've seen them more than once in theatres (with POTC 3 holding my all-time record of ten times in theatres!)... So, if the new Trek script is really that bad: BRING IT ON! They're up for my new movie-going record! And then thre are those movies with positive reviews: The Bourne Ultimatum, No Country for Old Men...BORING! A bad review sounds like an award to me these days...and I'm certainly up for the ride! See you in theatres, Jerky Kirky...
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This shows Abrams and gang know nothing about Trek. Starship Captains have to be some of the most well-educated, well-rounded people in Starfleet. Kirk would have been smart enough to reprogram the simulation on his own, AND bang a girl. Way to screw up the character, Abrams. And Trek fans do not want to hear the words "Star Wars" in reference to the look of Star Trek. I have very low expectations for the look of the Enterprise. Looks like Abrams is giving Star Trek the same stellar treatment he once gave Superman, except someone had the sense not to let Abrams make that movie!
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Pirates three? Alvin and Chipmunks? <p> more than once in the theatres? <p> OKKKKKKKKK, you're opinion probably counts to your moms but not here.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here when I saw that all these reports of JJ wanting to change things but not doing it b/c of the strike is complete bullshit. 1) The script is well guarded. Not even the stars of this flick have seen the whole thing. He can change whatever, whenever. No one will know. 2) Studio has put a lot of $$$ on this; their not going to fuck up this movie for the sake of the writers. If they cared about them, we would all be watching TV right now. 3) JJ is at work. He is working. He is not going to half-ass anything. I'm not worried.
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He loves JJ so much that he takes extra joy in lying and trying to destroy the dudes movie..lmfao , smells real bad to me..I am positive the first guy is full of horse shit...but I will wait and see because he is some hack who deserves my respect? HAHA no..
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WOW! THe writers are gigantic assfucks who write like seventh graders on a sugar binge. I hope both of them get the AIDS and explode on their families!<p>Yeah. I'm pretty mature around here.
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My opinion is the only one that counts...to me!!! You are entitled to your own opinions. So why do I bother signing up and positing it here? Well, because I'm sick of others posting their equally insignificant opinions without me. --- That said, in the end it comes down to cash. NEMESIS, which was ripped apart on this site in early 2002 and which I saw five times in thetre then, didn't make that money. Other ripped-apart movie like POTC 3 and Alvin do and no one, even not the devine critiques here at AICN had denie that fact! POTC 4 is upon us at some point and Alvin 2 and 3, too. And there is absolutely nothing AICN or any other internet reviewers can do about it! And in case Trek XI makes more than 150 Mio. bucks, I don't give a flying f*ck about reviews...in case it doesn't, there are fortunately a lot of insanely successful franchise flicks with bad reviews out there to prove your insignificance...
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Not enough chipmunks and pirates for your retarded little mind to actually understand what you were watching? Best film of the year hands down.
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I'm not even denying I'm a retard...geek...freak...whatsoever...but in the end, it comes down to box office: No Country... 44 million against POTC 3 317 million against Alvin 160 million counting...Now, though being boring Bourne WAS a success, and NEM, though being ripped-apart was a bomb...we will see what happens on 12/25 this year...
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If you can admit that you are a retard, geek, freak etc.. Why can't you just admit that your taste in movies sucks balls? And has less significance here than those of us who are not retarded?
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They did it to Transformers... why not Star Trek?
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"trekker" instead of "Trekkie" is getting an atomic wedgie after the forum, but it was already done. TheBladehelm, tell your mom you're going to be late for supper.
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Except a few shitty TV episodes and a lame first feature, he's hardly a director, much less talented. Just a sly producer.
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It's over, Johnny. It's OVER!!
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I don't want to see how Kirk beat the Kobayashi Maru. It was a memorable line of dialogue in Star Trek 2 but there's no need to rehash it. Why waste valuable screen time? Come up with your own stuff
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Abrams is apparently using the "Idiocracy" model of filmmaking to guide him as a literal interpertation of modern society. Will Kirk have a beer and cheet on his wife at Buttfuckers, too?
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He was on the destruck Craig Ferguson show last night. Doesn't totally rule out the 3rd rumor I s'poze; probably don't need full scale production up and running to get a shot of someone's hand.
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tidbits really seen? Tired of these behind the scenes wannabes dishing their biased two cents on something they haven't gotten a real clue about. When the credits roll then the shit can hit the fan.
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Conditioning people not to expect anything but cheating. <p> Don't allow people to dream that a starship captain could be an exemplary individual. <p> Turn everything into a sour joke.
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Somehow this sounds more like a live-action version of the anime "Irresponsible Captain Tylor" than Star Trek.
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The Kobyashi Maru is NOT a class. It is a test of CHARACTER. KIRK re-programmed the simulation so that it was possible to rescue the ship. He defended his actions by using the logic of his not believing in the "No-Win" scenario, which therefore demonstrated and justified the end to his means. And he was given a COMMENDATION for it, he was not villified. That was the start of his legend in Starfleet...but since when has CANON meant anything to assholes like you? Is Tyler Perry going to play Jar-Jar Binks?
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Forget that blasphemous piece of crap they are putting together.how about a horror movie about jj abrams making a star trek movie.plot synopsis:mysterious deaths begin occurring on the set of jj's trek reboot.A disgruntled treekie perhaphs?or something more sinister!As the body count rises all evidence points to the ghost of roddenberry,returned from the grave to put a stop to this abhorrent mess!with only abrams,the kid who plays young kirk and gay spock left alive it's a race aginst time to finish production before the studio puts the kibash on the whole thing.Suddenly jj,gay spock and young kirk actor find themselves cornered by the killer.As the huge silhouette approches brandishing a phaser,the three are paralized with fear.It's the ghost of roddenberry!!or is it? The creature believed to be the venerated creator stops cold before finishing his victoms.without warning the "ghost" pulls off his face (scooby doo style)revealing himself to be...shatner!!! In true captain kirk style the iconic shat swoops in to save the day once and for all.end credits roll.
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Is the first guy saying that in the script, Kirk graduates from Starfleet Academy--as an ensign, I guess, or whatever the Starfleet equivalent--and immediately takes command of the Enterprise? I know that part of Kirk's story was that he was at the time the youngest ship's captain in Starfleet history, but surely there's some indication of time - hopefully years - passing. Cause if not, that would be so, so, so, so, so, so very bad.
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As said, these are pretty much all bullshit. Nobody's seen the script, the footage, or Quinto shooting anything. Fuck the haters. This thing is gonna rock. You can always tell when a movie is gonna be successful. When AICN hates it, and the fandom is up in arms. Fuck the haters, and fuck the fandom. Nobody gives a shit if Kirk was an instructor, or what he did. And Shatner isn't in this one cause HE DIED ON SCREEN. He wasn't in the last 3 movies either, gonna bitch about them? In the words of your God, GET A LIFE!
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Jan. 5, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST
yeah it's a reboot, but it has time travel, and old spock..
by lex romero
..and old series continuity. Why? What's the point? I thought the reboot was meant to seperate it from teh old series, not use it as an excuse to have more time travel and more ways to link it with the old series. Surely that won't help bring new fans to the film?
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Remember that in the military people go back and forth to military academies and colleges throughout their careers - not just for initial training, but also as they climb the ranks -junior officers, staff college training, senior officer training, etc, etc. Some of these will be upto a year long and senior courses will be more heavily weighted to command and strategy matters than junior courses - so perhaps Kobyashi Maru is part of a senior officer staff / command course, in which case he could well go straight to his frist command afterwards.
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then continuity and canon are disrupted. <p> This is an attempt to reboot with TEEN crap. <p> The time travel is a cover for when the movie, inevitably, flops. <p> If you can't be faithful to the Trek ethos, then produce SPACE TEENS and be honest about it.
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JJ Abrams holding the camera steady long enough to line up 2 different shots. He's really moving on as a film maker since headache:impossible 3
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But you get the point.
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Kirk was a great character in the old series. From what I gather he was a serious student, driven self motivated and had no time for practical jokes as stated by the character finigan in the episode "shore leave". Throughout the old episodes one can piece together a glimpse of a young Kirk who drives himself to be the best he can. Kirk, also served as an Lieutenant on the Farragut before he joined the Enterprise. So going from the Academy and becoming Captain is a far throw from what the original shows have set up. Gone is the Hornblower feel of the character to be replaced by Harold and Kumar go to starfleet. A real shame as it would be interesting to see what it really would take to make a great starfleet captain. The idea that Kirk and Spock meet while in the Academy is strange, it harkens back to what Luca$h did with the Star Wars Universe, he actually made it smaller instead of larger, by having everyone meet at Lukes home planet. What is next Baby Star Trek? Where they all meet in the crib? All those characters Kirk, Spock, McCoy should meet for the first time on the Enterprise that is what brings them together. The safety for the ship and its crew, and the idea of exploration. So the original shows had a more realistic take on the idea of the first meet than what this film intends to be. People meet new people in jobs all the time, they serve, interact, help one another and do their duty, then when its done they either go different ways or not. Hopefully what we are hearing in terms of rumors is just that, but if that is the way they tend to go, then I will be waiting for the rental.
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why does spock have to time travel in order to "pass on the torch"? why not have two parallel story lines something along the lines of princess bride.. spock is on some mission to romulus..(blah) but hes traveling with a younger person, who asks him about the first time he met james kirk. connect the two plots with some central romulan theme and it would be great.. don't they love flash backs in LOST?
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Leonard Nimoy said there will be 3 Spocks. Is he senile and can't count or will there be a Spock baby?
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Is there room for Kumar in this flick?<P> Someone should donkeypunch JJ for this. Only nekkid green bitch can save this flick now.
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Jan. 5, 2008, 11:39 a.m. CST
The minute I walked out of Transformers, I knew this was gonna s
by zillabeast
Of course I didn't walk out of Transformers till the credits started rolling, but that's only because the g/f wouldn't let me. Otherwise I would have peaced the minute Shia appeared on-screen.
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why did i read this post?? now i'm scared about this movie. and Trek cannon established numerous times that kirk was a studious, nerdy bookworm at the academy and it was only later that he came out of his shell and became so roguish. this made him the opposite of picard who was a wild child at the academy and then became more strait laced...and i agree, not sure about all this abrams love...
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how about a story line like this: an alien race that kirk dealt with on his first mission (who cares who it is) comes to earth and wants to speak to kirk or they will destroy earth (basically the plot of star trek 4: save the whales) but kirk is dead... so spock has the idea to go to the mirror mirror universe to get that kirk... you know that evil one. then spock has to explain to evil kirk why he has to help them, which is done through flash back. spock explains what a douche bag good kirk was at the academy (cheating on test) but how on their first real mission kirk redeemed himself saving/killing/whatever the same aliens that are threatening to destroy the earth in the present.
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This is ridiculous. By all accounts Kirk was a stellar Starfleet student who only became rogueish once on the Enterprise. This contrasts with Picard who was a bad boy at the Academy but got his shit together and was the anti-thesis of Kirk as a captain. And if Kirk is such a bad student, why would he be given his own starship right out of the gate? Would he not have to crew on various ships before getting his own? This whole story sounds terrible. No surprise since JJ Abrams is involved. This guy has not made one quality thing yet.
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Go with me here, people.<P> They release a ton of disparaging remarks about this movie - including Plant-Boy and Lying Bastard's as above. We all froth at the mouth and get mightily pissed over this news. We wait for the movie. Instead of sucking outright, it ends up a tepid pissbucket of a remake - but because we are expecting a slurryload of warm shit, we all re-appraise what we think of the movie, everyone goes "It's not the shitstorm we expected", it does well opening weekend and for a few weeks after... and JJ and Paramount make just enough dollar to make more of these fucking abominations.<P> DO NOT LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS FOR THIS MOVIE! THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT! THAT'S WHAT THEY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT!!!!!
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Seems like Aint It Quint News lately and I, for one, LIKE IT! Keep up the good work and GREAT reviews Quint! Cheers...
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I've said it before and i'll say it again. Trek is all about going forward, not back. You can't change 40 years of canon unless you are doing a total reboot, which these obviously aren't. I just can't get excited about this. They aren't fantastic writers in the first place and with no rewrites allowed i'll be very suprised if it's not a big steaming pile of shit. I might be pleasantly suprised, but i doubt it. Paramount don't give a flying fuck about the franchise, they just want to squeeze as much money from this cash cow as they possibly can before it akes it's final breath. Fuck Paramount!
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Yep, I said it. Idiots. I mean, you seriously believe these people? NO ONE has seen the script, and besides, as Falcon said, it's the plot to Shat's book that this "source" is describing. Anyway, I reserve all judgment until I see it. And btw, 90 percent of people in these tb's hate EVERYTHING, and seriously need to relax and let everybody have their own opinion without calling them names. I mean, we are civilised human beings, right? Right?
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How dare you? I take great pride in being a fat, angry, useless, world hating, disgusting geek who hasn't seen sunlight in 3 years. Then again invisible i see your point. I just can't seem to get excited about these thinds anymore. I don't get why everything has to be a reboot
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And yes, I recognise the double standard in me calling you all idiots.
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It's the new studio approach of misinformation. Flood the media with fake spies, "inside info" etc. so that even if the genuine script is leaked no-one will be sure. Guaranteed that's the approach.
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I've no doubt the man is talented, but i still can't shake his terrible superman script from a few years back. If thats his idea of adapting established franchises, then things will be dire
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Hey, about the only thing on me that gets any sun is my left arm that hangs out the car window as I drive, so I'm with ya there <p> But as far as the movie, from what I can tell, it jumps from on point in time to another, so it's not a High School Trek Musical. I doubt we'll see the crew at the acadamy togther. But, again, who knows? I'm looking forward to it with much fear and trepidation. The biggest thing this has going for it is Nimoy's involvement. Believe me, he doesn't need the paycheck. On the strength of that alone, I will give a chance. Nimoy is very protective of Spock and Star Trek.
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Picard was better anyway. What a load of horseshit I'm reading here anyway. That first guy is about as much a source as I am Wil Wheaton. Like someone said upthread, if he's read the script, why not spill something meaty? The other two may have something in them but are still too vague to get excited about. And what a surprise: 'boo fucking hoo, they're messing with canon'. Who gives a shit? Newsflash: this franchise was DOA when Abrams got his overrated paws on it. If he can gets fans interested (I'm not talking about the rabid diehard fuckwits that would see a dead Shatner corpse acting via electroshock treatment before someone else gets the Kirk role) while making a ton of cash from a broader audience, then he deserves some kudos. If you want to go canon then we'll need the Borg Queen, kids and dog showing up every thirty seconds and Ethan Phillips making a cameo. The time travel angle is gash but if it clears out 25 seasons + of clutter and retains the good stuff, then it'll work for me. I know plenty of Trek fans that only watched from TNG onwards and a movie like this is the only way they would watch anything so closely associated with the donkey's ball original series, a hammy piece of shit of a show that gives sci-fi a bad name. There are more of us out there losers. I'm off to cook with my attractive girlfriend in our flat before going out in the real world for drinks and then to my rewarding and well-paid job on Monday. Eat my ass you Shatner-lovers
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I have to admit, even though i can't get excited about it, i am very intrigued about what will be done. I still think that the trek universe should continue forward instead of back, but at least we are still getting trek rather than nothing at all so i'm thankful for that
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Kirk a captain right out of Starfleet? Thats like Magnum PI being born with a mustache.
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I have a decent job too, and my own house, i go out a fair bit too. I even have a girlfriend, but mine is going to look like her mother in about 10 years so i'm pretty pissed off about that one. You have me beat there
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This sounds like total shit. He will be as hated as Uwe Boll if this all pans out as truth.
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WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT STAR TREK!!!
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Its believable that it could have been a leadership course at the academy between the time he was a junior officer and got his first command, they only said it was at the academy, never actually specified WHEN at the academy, all in all, I have to say its a believable and acceptable possibility...
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Jan. 5, 2008, 12:42 p.m. CST
But what if the guy who read the script is one of these..
by DerLanghaarige
...stereotypcal Trekkies, who live in her mother's basement and label everything as "worst something ever"? <br> Okay, maybe he is right, but what if?
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It's the big budget MERCY POINT movie that's really gonna rock!!
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He's brilliant -- they're utter hacks. Maybe now that he can't change their hackneyed dialogue on set due to the strike, he'll finally realize it -- the hard way.
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Is the new Jar Jar Binks.
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The series has ignored continuity over and over again, so there's no way it will fit completely within the confines of the recent TV shows (Warp 10 changes depending on the episode and the change in the Klingon look was ignored for quite a while). Just give us a good movie with characters we love.
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Seriously-everything they've written reads like complete and utter crap,and in interviews they've demonstrated that they have no love for or knowledge of the properties they're given to adapt,yet somehow these two tools are attached to damn near every fanboy script in Hollywood? HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Fuck you Kurtz and Orci...fuck you both right in the ass.
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I'm with everyone who's tired of this shit. Stop trying to fucking "re-imagine" or "re-invent" our favorite movie franchises - STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST! The problem is, this country is full of sheep and will flock to just about anything Hollywood cranks out. YOU'RE ALL FUCKING SHEEP I TELL YOU!!!
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and will withhold final judgment but that sounds rather weak. Bad writing. And Kirk sleeping his way to cheating on the Kobayashi Maru is just plain wrong.
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Jan. 5, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST
First interracial teabagging on the big screen
by WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR
But to really blow the liberal Trekkie minds have Sulu be the one dunking Uhura. Would Shatner have been up for this movie if Uhura could've used his face as a toilet?
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If you all love canon so much why the fuck do you want Shatner's Kirk back, seeing as he was killed in Generations (which IS canon)?? I say let Abrams do what the fuck he wants with Trek canon. If he doesn't have that freedom he can't tell his story and would just be a restricted Trek fanboy checking the encyclopedias and forums every 2 seconds. 'By all accounts Kirk was a good student.' Fuck those 'accounts'. If it gives him a good character arc in the movie, for him to turn from cocky cheating student to excellent captain, then so be it. The one thing I DON'T like is the idea of old Spock meeting young Spock. Not because of canon but because it already sounds tired.
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I know the dude says he isn't a trekkie, but come on. The Federation ships were designed from the inside-out over the past 40 years. We have seen more of them and their innards on the various series alone than any ships in all the Star Wars movies combined. All we ever see in Star Wars are a bridge, a hallway, and an elevator shaft. And god help those writers if they think they can sell the Enterprise as an Area 51 gadget.
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Orci himself commented on the TrekMovie site that whoever reported on the script has NOT read the script. Believe who you will. I'm just sayin'...
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lame.
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I predict that Star Trek will go the way of Superman Returns, not by being too faithful to previous films, but by veering too far away from what made the original series great. The charm of the character triad of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
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Says rumors are false and whining that AICN never liked him. Makes me believe everything above is 100% true. Also he didn't deny anything in particular more like spin than anything. Too bad Trekmovie was a great site but seems like it has become a mouthpiece for the producers.
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And bring it back after it rests for a decade. Sometimes the best way to reboot a franchise is to let people forget about it for a while. And why go back to do more time travel crap? Is this Back to the Future or Trek? Why not give us the Federation 100 years after TNG? New characters, new stories--The NEXT Next Generation!
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It almost seems as if the writers (and maybe JJ) are forgetting that if they are going back to the graduation from Star Fleet to be their 'jumping off' point for continuity as far as the series is concerned, then everything that happened PRIOR to that graduation would have occurred as previously has been established in the Trek universe. For example, as Kirk said in TWOK, he reprogrammed the KM simulation, NOT that he banged some babe to do it for him. I also believe that the Enterprise was in no way built a product of Area51. (Hey, why not just tie it in with Indy and the Krystal skulls as well using that Area 51 tie in??) Grand scale and scope can only go so far to compensate for a script that creates it's own problem. If JJ wanted to completely change the entire Trek Universe and everything that had already been established, then he shouldnt have got Nimoy involved, because with his involvement a person would at least like to hope that Abrams wants to keep some aspects of Trek Canon intact. I dont know..I'm starting to have mixed feelings about this.....
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No one watched Enterprise so that doesn't count and it's been 6 years since the last movie. Paramount still makes too much in merchandise to keep it out of the public eye for too long. Going back to the Kirk/Spock well though just says "I got nutin". <p>Section 31 movie, FTW</p>
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Jan. 5, 2008, 2:24 p.m. CST
Ditch this and make it a reality-based Trek tv show...
by Darth_Inedible
Build an enormous self-contained Enterprise set complete with simulated controls, systems and encounters and lock a group of twentysomethings into it for 12 weeks after a training period.
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The Starfleet Shipyard is Utopia Planetia, its an orbital shipyard. The Enterprise could never land on a planet so having it built on one would sort of make a problem for launching it or is logic not in this picture?
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I'm no trekkie, but why would I want to see a Trek film that doesn't honor the original material at least a little? Talk about cheating.
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Christ, Quint, why would you even post that first review? I don't care if it's from a trusted source or not.
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Jan. 5, 2008, 2:41 p.m. CST
Entertainment Weekly had the right answer for this franchise....
by amrisharmpit
They ran an article several years back about how to revive movie franchises that were, at the time, dead or near-dead (Bond and Batman were on the list). For Star Trek, the article recommended an all-new cast of characters created specifically for films and not connected to any of the previous TV series. This would have enabled the filmmakers to create something fresh. So on the basis of what we're getting, it sounds like Paramount REALLY took that advice to heart. ;)
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Controversy is good. This "review" lowering expectations is good. Bring it on. Maybe we'll put flames right on the side of the Enterprise just for fun.
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I'm sorry but I still can't get that out of my head. I could not stand watching 1/2 of that movie but someone saw it 10 times? You are insane that must be what it is because how did you not kill yourself? POTC 3 is in my top 10 worst films of 2007. Also that first post is BS he didn't read the script so just wait and see when this comes out in theaters.
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Sisko comes out of the wormhole with Ezri Dax, looks at the camera, and says "We're puttin' the band back together. We're on a mission from the Bajoran Gods." Orgasmic Trekking, I tell ya.
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Excellent Jesus Christ Superstar reference there, mate! lol
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I'm halfway down the talkback and I've seen it about eight times already. I'm usually not a grammar nut but that's just blatantly pathetic.
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hope this isnt true, or gets rewritten, lame.
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I'm 53 and I'm willing to bet I've been a ST fan longer than you! I say give them a chance! I'm really sick and tired of " Let Star Trek die ". Berman is finally gone and there are no TV series to pick at. Does anyone remember that ST left us for 10 years last time and came back stronger than ever! Before you start this wasn't because of Gene Roddenberry. The first movie was so mishandled it almost killed it. Roddenberry was the creator and should be respected but I don't think he understood how to be a good movie producer. I think a reboot can work if handled properly. I also wouldn't judge too much from rumour reports this early in the game. Wait for the finished product. Then if it's truly lousy tear away! Until then no more " Let Star Trek die " crap. Not if you're a real fan!
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Back in college, I had the privilege of meeting Gene Rodenberry when he came to our college as part of our lecture series and I was on the Student Union Board so I got to go the reception with him afterwards. This was right when STNG was getting ready to roll before the cameras. What struck me most about him, was that he really had this incredible sense of optimism for mankind. That no matter how crappy things might be, that as a race we will persevere and do what's right compared to doing what's most convenient. In its best moments, Trek lived up to those ideals...in it's worst moments, it thumbed its collective nose at them. The more that I am reading about how Kirk is being treated in this movie, the more I see something that is getting away from those main principles that Rodenberry tried to interject into his tales....
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They fuck it up. Bring in a gifted writer, as they did with Meyer who had no previous knowledge of Trek. This movie is from the writers of Transformers for gods sake. Only in Hollyweird.
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Let's see. Area 51 is a place where we supposedly keep aliens and spacecraft A SECRET. In Star Trek, earth KNOWS there are spaceships and aliens. You might've even heard of one of them. His name is Mr. SPOCK. You do the math.
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The little gray aliens in the Nevada desert add the flames and nipples that weren't installed at the San Francisco shipyards (ironically).
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Maybe, if this friggin strike EVER ends. More likely though is the suits release it as shot in order to get the product out there. Yeah, this is sounding reeeal good...
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I've been a Treker of sorts since a classmate in the sixth grade started calling me "mon capiton" (why, I don't know) and my curiosity was peaked. The Next Generation was / is cool, but Kirk and Company are Trek incarnate and I still don't like the idea of this movie being made. It feels like a big-budget SNL skit and I'm afraid that's exactly how it's going to come off. Sure, Kirk's a skirt chaser, but one with class and intelligence -- unlike what we're likely to get with this Chris Pine's interpretation. In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the central crewman-turned-bad-guy talks about Kirk when teaching at the Academy and says if one didn't think they'd sink in Kirk's class. I'm not saying make Kirk a teacher, but don't make him a complete joke. I think this is a clear case of "Star Wars" loyalists trying to get their claws on the competition and convert it to the dark side (to use the "Star Wars" vernacular).
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Even if the strike ends, we'll be the ones doing the rewriting so abandon all hope ye KO haters.
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who always screws things up because he doesn't give a damn. Then he gets to be a leader even though he is unqualified......Oh I get it! This isn't Star Trek at all. It's just a cover for JJ's new movie, The George W. Bush story!
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Have you no shame?<P>So I guess the Enterprise was built using parts from the alien ships collected and hidden at Area 51. Maybe they even used the alien ship from INDEPENDENCE DAY that was kept hidden in Area 51.
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big miss on this.
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No need to kill Kirk. Why not just take a page from BACK TO THE FUTURE. The Romulans can go back in time and stop Kirk's parents from hooking up like Marty McFly. Better yet, the Romulans can travel back in time and steal Papa Kirk's bottle of Viagra or have the pizza delivery guy knock on the door at the opportune moment so that Kirk is never conceived.
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There is no Tribble Homeworld.
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STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO! STINO!
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... for going that far in the biz without an ounce of talent or integrity. Good job indeed. <p> But I'm gonna stick with my first feeling: it's just a lame fan impersonating his idol.
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The Enterprise was Naval Construction Contract #1701 and was built at the starfleet shipyard in orbit above San Francisco. Canon describes Kirk as being a bookworm and having a stick up his ass when it comes to having fun. HE reprogrammed the Kobiyashi Maru scenario, not some Kirk groupie he leads along. Kirk wasn't a captain right out of the acadamy. It is well known he served as an ensign and was promoted to lieutenant abord the Starship Farragut. I am a diehard TOS fan, and this movie already sounds dead to me.
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Thanks dude. It truly is a monumental task to get hired again and again without having an ounce of talent or integrity. Thank you for noticing. I think it's Alex Kurtzman's cooking that does it.
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What Bond movie was she in?
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...(a take on Spock's line "Edith Keeler must die" from CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER). That would be a much better story arc and would even make a great title.<P>Although you really nailed the whole problem with this incarnation of Trek and covered it all with "It's A Wonderful Kirk." But keep Old Spock. He should be the one who gets his wings instead of Clarence.
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I am a trekkie, and I'll tell you now - Area 51 == Bollocks. It doesn't make any sense. Kirk being given the Enterprise straight out of the academy == bollocks. Given them some credit - they are rebooting, so there will be some canon changes, but 22 year old ensigns don't get given the flagship of the fleet - it just doesn't make any sense in any way. For the record, in canon Kirk was 35 when he was given the Enterprise, and even that is waaay young. As far as him sleeping with a cute programmer is concerned, that I can accept - it fits with the character for me. Kirk is not a computer programmer, not in any sense. But he would not have got through starfleet academy without having a good basis of knowledge. Reboots are all very well, but Abrams is not stupid enough to blatantly flaunt logic in a franchise that has always lived and died on a realistic, logical structure to it's playbook.
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slingshot around and go backwards and forwards in time. The Borg could obviously do it at will but only tried it once. For some reason there was no galaxy-wide war over the Guardian of Forever. The Bajorans have an "Orb of Time" that let Sisko and co go back to that Tribble episode. If you fly into the Nexus, you can go to any time or place you want (even though Picard picked the worst possible time and place). <p>So any yahoo dickhead can go back in time and fuck things up. It's time to drop that lazy plot device.</p>
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Couldn't agree more.
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...as a writer in demand. The comments are should be seen as "flavorful" suggestions.
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but my guess is it has more to do with lowering the mainstream audience's tastes with silly humor, mediocre dialogues, lousy character development and no artistic ambition other than reaching the lowest common denominator. Worthy of a Hack Pack life membership indeed. As for me, I'll enjoy sneaking into STINO with my buddies and ripping it apart like I did with MI3. Dude.
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I didn't know who Bob Orci was until I read this thread and checked IMDB. That's one craptacular body of work.
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And holy shit the writer of the movie's here? I believe it... seemed like the type to come to hell and dance with the devil. Well tranformers was pretty average so I don't like you much...
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Is he really in here fighting with the fans like some petulant kid? Good idea, alienating the fan base for a movie franchise that literally cannot attract new fans.
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...Kurtwood Smith's character changed the timeline without time travel by using a temporal weapon which altered the timeline by the click of a button. A device like that makes better sense IMHO.<P>Apologies for the mistakenly doing a double post.
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How do the two WORST screenwriters in the world keep getting jobs? MI3 was pure shit and Transformers was a reeking piece of celluloid sold completely on CGI. I know those two assholes got a 3 picture deal with Paramount (starting with the Island and continuing with Transformers) but who at Paramount thought these morons were worthy to carry a Star Trek reboot? Every script those two write gets worse and worse! Abrams is one of the assholes who likes to hire his friends. I just hope he can overcome their shortcomings. He can't complain about how bad the script is either. He chose these guys knowing they can't write worth a fuck. And the jolly folks at AICN will pimp this shit regardless of whether it's good (highly unlikely!) or total shit! Let's see these shumucks run interference for Paramount so Harry can keep getting text-messages from Abrams. Pathetic. Let's hope Abrams uses the strike as his chance to dump Orci/Kurtzman and realize that just because they're his buddies doesn't mean they have a lick of talent and sure as hell doesn't mean he has to keep tossing them work.
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You gotta be fucking kidding me.<p> Fuck this movie!
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You think quite highly of my influence. First you don't believe it's me -- you think it's a fan impersonating me. Now you seem to think we can affect mass audiences expectations to mold moviegoers into accepting our nefarious hackery. I wish I was as large an influence in reality as I seem to be in your mind. Thanks. And if only one of your buddies likes it and tells a friend who pays to see it, it will make up for the ten dollars you will owe us for sneaking in -- better make sure all your friends are as open minded as you are and that they hate the movie BEFROE they see it.
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Nothing worth reporting yet.
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Everyone loves you for helping create LOST. People love LOST because it's an original concept, creative, exciting and new. People also like Cloverfield for many of same reasons. But you didn't choose to direct that. Instead you decide to waste your time directing Mission: Impossible sequels and a Star Trek rehash? Why?
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Yeah! Abrams sucks! If our script sucks it's not our fault! It's his stupid fault for hiring us! Down with Abrams!
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Assuming for a moment that you ARE Bob Orci, I sincerely hope you don't fuck this up. For now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
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Hey, Bob, you're responding more to comments here than on Trekmovie. All things being equal, I did like some of "Transformers", but any time the bots were on screen it was awful. The Island was so-so, but that was a Bay film as well. I certainly hope J.J.s more down to Earth directing style allows your script and the characters within to shine (unless the tidbits above are true).
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If it turns out the Enterprise is built in Area 51, I'm not going to bother watching this. I'm not even a huge Trekkie but I know enough about that universe to know the whole Area 51 thing is out of place and just a dumb move entirely.
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Who's fighting? I'm truly just here having fun the weekend before having to go back to work. Mean no disrespect to anyone.
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open mind is all we ask. Thanks.
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page 1 for sure. No sense in saving the good stuff for later.
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You're not Boborci. You're a troll...oh, wait... maybe you are Bob Orci.
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That's fine. But I've walked into many Star Trek films with an open mind, and had that open mind butt-raped repeatedly. Just remember that your high watermark is Star Trek II, and that above all, Star Trek has to make sense. It's not Star Wars. A 22 year old Kirk getting command of the flagship of the fleet makes no sense. Still, I'm sure you know that. *Having him steal it?* Now that I could accept. Anyway, You've got an open mind here, and you've already got my $10.
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and by laughs I mean your silly defensive attitude. Not The Island's plot, Mission: Impossible 3 characterization, plotholes and dialogues, or even TINO or Legend of Zorro as a whole. That was where my open-mindedness called it a day.
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David Mamet is to great writer as Bob Orci is to...
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That is all , faggot
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oh my god! he's a bad student! well that's it, I refuse to see the movie if he's a bad student! how dare they make kirk a bad student! i mean, that's no-way-will-I-see-it-now worthy. bad students ruin every movie!
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When watching the 60's TV show. I know have to accept that younger spock before all the events on the show. Saw his old self?
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...and can do pathetic. In MUNICH, I recall how he agonized about both the complexity of his mission and the consequences of his actions. If the script allows, Bana would give Smith's Annorax a run for his money.<P>BTW I'm partial to DS9 but that two parter is one of my Trek favorites. It wouldn't hurt JJ and this new Trek team to do a viewing of those episodes.
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If you were looking up the word "Hack" in the dictionary, whose name would you find as an example?
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just having fun here. I thought flamers had thicker skins. I'll be more gentle with you from now on. And thanks for going to see everything we do, even if you sneak in and hate it.
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(Gunshot)<p> Going to need a moment or two alone, boys.
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Wait, let me guess! BOB ORCI!
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MI:3 was pretty damn entertaining as was Transformers and Lost rules..what have you done with your life spencer besides make your parent hide in shame over what has become of their combined DNA. BOBORCI , the talkbackers are mostly assholes as you can clearly see..this place is all that is bad with the internet..everything is negative and everyone here thinks they are smarter then the professionals...heck most of these asswipes hate this site yet they live on here like little douchebags..I can't wait for the movie , I know its going to be far better then anything we have seen lately from that franchise.
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Michael Bay. Yes, Michael Bay.
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A writer in Hoolywood is<p> A. Important<p> B. Not Important <p> C. A Tool<p> D. A Closet Homosexual
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DAMN! Now you're going to tell me I'm not even on the top ten list of hacks, aren't you! WHY, GOD, WHY?!
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That one I do know. All of the above.
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but count me out for Transformers 2 - Starscream's revenge. Too busy playing MI3-related drinking games with my homies (like "1 pint every plot hole", or "Binge when you cringe") or comparing its dialogue with Team America's. <p> I'll wait for The Island 2 instead.
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No, seriously dude, you're cool. :) Good luck on the movie.
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Me and the mongoloid sitting next to me came up with it together. Steven Spielberg's and Micahel Bay's favorite scene.
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Over slo-mo shots of the cast weeping? Cause that's what he does on Facility/Alias/Lost.
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It's amazing how good those old episodes really were. Never really watched them before, untill now. Mirror, Mirror is my favorite one so far.
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wait just a minute... Starscream's Revenge!? Great idea! Mind if I use it?
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and you guys aren't fellating him?<P> madness!
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What's Tom Cruise doing at the Redskins vs. Seattle game?
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Define Celebrity.
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I dont say this often because I hate typing it, but ... ROFLMFAO<p> Hey Yack what's doin up north?
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How fucking original! Bob, you genius! <p> Are Harve Bennet and Nicholas Meyer still alive? How's about getting them to make this movie so it can be ... what's that word I'm looking for ... oh yeah .. good.
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One word: Dreamcatcher
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tom was suckin some dick in the lockers.<P>or using his MIND BULLETS to KILL UNBELIEVERS!
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Maybe it's time to stop as it's obviously affecting your ability to be a writer.
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missed your question earlier. If you really wanna read a lot about what we've had to say go to TREKMOVIE.COM.
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For background on this exciting concept, see TBers Grammaton Cleric Binks or Xiphos.
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That hurts, Bob.
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Seeing Quinto onscreen with Nimoy will highlightthe chops and gravitas that he will seriously have to make up for. Simple mimicry will not suffice for a believable Spock. the portrayal of Spock will make or break the film.
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Go Redskins!
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Jan. 5, 2008, 6:15 p.m. CST
HEY BOB ORCI DO YOU WRITE WITH A COMPUTER OR CRAYONS
by BringingSexyBack
on toilet paper?
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Good One! Nice to see your ability is unaffected.
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I know you know nothing about Death Blossom, Bob Orci ... that's a reference for real sci-fi fans.
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I write on a computer.
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Maybe you should write comedy. The intentional kind.
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He's not gone. He's never gone.
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I was quoting krack.
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it's how it ends. don't shoot the messenger.
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It's the "Kahn" of the Berman films. I'll believe it when I see it (on DVD)...
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I had to kill Bob Orci because he made a mistake. Now, it's time to erase that mistake.
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That is all.
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I hope one day my career allows me to piss all over something you care about. Release the ol' lubricants.
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That's just fucking retarded. The strike needs to end, the producers need to remove their heads from their asses so this can get fixed. Get Ron Moore in there STAT!
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If you're insulting our work on Transformers, then congrats. You just pissed on something I care about!
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I mean Transformers isn't exactly War and Peace. How much do you really care? I'm sure you're living in a nicer house than any of us are. You sold out. It's O.K.. Lots of people do it everyday. Money is nice, isn't?
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I care about Transformers. Doesn't mean I was hurt by the comment. Just trying to give a disgruntled viewer a bit of comfort.
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I hope this movie flops like a goldfish on a hot August sidewalk. How damn hard is it to make a Star Trek movie? Obviously too hard. You could have set this movie 20-30 years after Voyager, on a new Enterprise with a new crew, with a new threat (besides the Borg). Why am I even bothering to type this? False hope, I guess.
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Jan. 5, 2008, 6:55 p.m. CST
CAN KIRK GO BACK IN TIME AND FUCK HIMSELF IN THE ASS?
by BringingSexyBack
You can use that idea, Bob.
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Did you let the "BITCHES"leave?
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This has got to be the most humorless TB ever. You Trekkies gotta lighten up
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did what it needed to do.. i dont think that people expecting a deep story would go see transformers.. and the dialog was fitting for the type of movie. the scene with them in the back yard hiding was lame..and if i had anything to say about it .. would have been changed or removed. besides that i was entertained.
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Jesus H. Christ...a couple of rumors spill out and out come the torches and pitchforks. Look, in regards to the script--seriously, why no "major" revelations? And BTW...what draft did this person read? If it's an early draft, then chances are that a great deal has been changed. Of course, that is, if this first rumor is true. Me? I'd rather wait and see. I've liked Trek for years (well...the original, TNG, and DS9--thanks for praise on it, Yackbacker). But VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE were letdowns, although in its last year, ENTERPRISE was getting better, thanks to Manny Coto. But can we just wait for more honest info to come out before we scream bloody murder? Or is that too much to ask?
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At least hes doing something cool with his life. Writing movies i wish i could get in on.. even if you dont agree with some of his writing you have to admire that hes doing it. Who cares what a bunch of talentless talk backers have to say anyway. I sure hope he does not.
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My fiancee's watching A Good Year too ... I'm on the laptop fucking around here, she's very understanding about that. Happy New Year! <p> Damn you Bob Orci.
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So let me see if I get your point. Bob Orci is having a great time writing mediocre movies and we're supposed to admire him because he can? Am I reading you right?
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Iron Man is jerk-worthy. This Star Trek? Uh, no. Star Trek hasn't been jerk-worthy since IV, and that one just barely.
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I think I like Russell Crowe better when's he's in a Gladiator uniform and disemboweling people. This movie is boring me to tears. At least she promised to watch 300 later ... hee
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That's how he became gay. You can use that Bob Orci.
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Jan. 5, 2008, 7:36 p.m. CST
man, people are just "paparazzi to Britney Spears" mean in this
by geraldbeans
Who cares? It's Star Trek. What are you expecting? My question is to Bob, who wrote Tranformers. I was looking for something with some grit and atmosphere. It seems like you took more of the family movie/broad approach (you have to admit - the Transformers hiding in the yard scene was way too goofy - even for this film). I was wondering whose decision this was - and if you were on board with it.
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he already answered that. and yes him and his friend came up with that.<p><p><p>I just hope the next movie the autobots wont be portrayed as stupidly as they were there.
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Sure, we can wait for a trailer and see for ourselves, but you know what they say about movie trailers. Reading the large gamut of articles written about this movie can pretty much give you the idea that this movie is doomed from the get-go. And I love the 1980's jock-itch mentality that fans of Star Trek must be virgins and still live in their mother's basement. Just want to let you know some of these "trekkers" have lives, money and girlfriends, if not spouses. What a concept.
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Are just textbook examples of projection. Whenever someone makes it a huge point, usually in graphic detail, to explain to everyone how much everyone is not getting laid...well the conclusion is evident. <p>It would take a lot to make even the biggest Trekkies excited about this. So people are understandably skeptical.</p>
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I'm simply saying he could be the guy who wrote the AVP movies (allot worse IMO).. and that I admire him for having a cool job. No matter what anyone does on these boards 50% of the people who post here will hate it.. i have enjoyed most of the movies he has had a hand in writing.. they aren't in my top 10, and they have flaws but i don't think some of the bashing here extreme, but i do enjoy reading it.
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Will he"WRITE" the sequel too?
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I'm not attacking you, but I just disagree that Bob is immune from criticism. Especially if he pops up here, he should be able to take the heat. If I were his publicist I'd advise him to steer clear and just be happy to collect his paycheck.
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I'll take a piece of that Tigris property. It should be worth something in 100 years, after the , um, fighting stops.
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At least he didn't write A GOOD YEAR ... Christ, that was bad.
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on Law and Order. Can they do that on TV now?
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I'm not so concerned about the flooding as much as, um ... radioactive depleted uranium. Maybe I can rent it out to a right-wingnut as a vacation 'hotspot'. hehe
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Maybe I was just too busy hollering at Mr. Orci but couldn't get into it. I prefer Russell Crowe as he is in that pop-up ad up top. Gun in hand, phone ready for the throwing ...
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I like romantic movies - Serendipity being one of my faves. But this one I just couldn't handle ...
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Jan. 5, 2008, 8:14 p.m. CST
STALLONE COULD'VE ALSO REPLACED PIVEN IN RUSH HOUR 2
by BringingSexyBack
Piven was funny but Stallone as that salesguy would've been golden.
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Don't forget to go see STAR TREK next Christmas! Tell your friends!
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Great! Stick 2 warp engines on the Falcon and you have the new Enterprise ( built at Area 51 using Alien tech to boot ) Did Harlan Ellison get his paycheck yet? Fingers crossed this Trek turns into something fun ...
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This is the most highly secretive script and set in Hollywood and you want us to believe this drivel? Area 51?....riiiight.
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Jan. 5, 2008, 8:26 p.m. CST
I DON'T THINK IT'S FOR LACK OF TRYING ON STALLONE'S PART
by BringingSexyBack
Obviously with STOP OR MY MOM WILL SHOOT Sly's pretty open-minded with parts. But I think he had a streak of bad luck landing juicy roles. But the man has money, he ain't hurtin' for cash Goddamit.
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Akiva, Orci, McG, Bay, Kurtzman - yes, their day has arrived! No more do we need to write or direct anything that your average teenage male won't watch...WE ARE THE RISE OF THE HACKS!!! It must be nice to completely take canon that has already established and flush it down the crapper. Continuty, what is that and why should we care? So what if these characters have already been established? WE DON'T! As long as we appeal to the current generation of OCD teenagers, we'll continue to get paid to make complete crap and laugh all the way to the bank. Yes, we are now in the Hollywood Age Of Hacks.
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AMEN, BROTHER!
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Telling the Fandom to fuck off isn't a wise choice, since the fandom will be the ones making or breaking this piece of shit at the box-office. Also, contrary to your beliefs, many Trek fans DO have lives. Your blind faith in this movie makes you reek of being a Paramount Plant.
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I'm not a trekkie so I could care less about canon. But I haven't paid to see any Star Trek film since the Wrath of Khan. With that being said, I like the direction JJ is takin with Kurks character. It will make interesting cinema to see Kurk redeem himself, and silence his detractors, as he embarks on the greatest journey where no man has gone before. IMO the first poster was overly negative. It's time to see a new take on this franchise. We've had decades of the same old Star Trek Universe. So it's wonderful to see JJ take this movie in the unique direction that he is. And what's up Yack! How's it hanging homie?
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with the Romulans going back in time to kill Kirk...well, that makes absolutely no sense unless you are of the most unintelligent, un-imaginative types.<p><p>Just think about it for a moment. The Romulan empire wants to kill one human (Kirk) to eliminate the threat he poses ??? Why don't they instead go back in time, and fuckin' steralize the planet Earth so no humans arise, thus eliminating competition from a technologically advanced, intelligent species.<p><p>Wouldn't that make more sense?
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Let me Guess- The Enterprise was built in the hanger behind the one they're keeping the UFO the Russians are after in Indy IV and in front of the one that they're keeping Frozen Megatron in, right?<br> <br> Cheese Us. At this rate, the only thing that can save this script is Shia Labouef as Commander Decker.
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are laaaaaame. island was only kinda good, but mostly for scarlett.
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Zap Brannigan. If Kurtzman and Orci can't tell Brannigan was a parody, then fuck you.
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that the big twist to this is that Spock and those pesky Romulans went back to the wrong timeline, and what Spock does is creates an alternate timeline, the one we Trekkies know by heart. My head hurts.
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Ha Ha, I'm not watching the Transformers. I've been to awestruck by my Planet Earth Blu Ray disks:) Hope everything is going well.
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Ya know that creepy feeling you get when you realize you're on the wrong side....Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.
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Someone else went back further, making a bigger mess....
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Anyway, if I get a new handle, which movie industry personage should I impersonate? <p> Not anyone smokin' hot because too many of you will get too excited.
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..not this re-imaging of the original Trek. it wasn't needed. I fear though that even if we were getting a DS9 movie; Paramount would saddle it with hacks and ruin it.
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I've always said they should do a sequel to The Last Starfighter.
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Long live Adama! SO SAY WE ALL!!!
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as he comletely dodged my earlier question about transformers. unless of course, he's ashamed of the movie and is scared to defend it.
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And I'm really me. And it's all thick-cut fatty fatty ham.
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Dude, that is a badass idea for a reality series.
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<bgcolor=#550000>Now can someone be Gretchen Mol?
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I think they crashed it or something!LOST TB RULES!
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milla jovovich stole the line I stole from Moriarty!
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Kirk may have been portrayed as a bit rebellious and rule-bending, but he shouldn't be made into some unlikeable punk. I'm still hoping these are some made up rumors, and hope they haven't screwed things up so bad.
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If I' mm not mistaken, but didn't Kirk take over the 'Enterprise' from Capt. Pike after he had an accident? And wasn't the crew already established? Adults? And didn't Bones take over for the older docter after the first season? Do these guys have any clue about the 'Trek Universe?'
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I guess the next hanger over has Quark's ship
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LOL that made me spew my gin martini, USS CYGNUS. Well done, sir, well done.
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In terms of the tone and approach to Transformers, we talked at length in our early development meetings with Steven Spielberg about how much we missed the old Amblin movies like Goonies, and Back to the Future. The three of us decided together that Transformers should aim for a similar kind of throwback family feel that's still an edgy PG-13.
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...we can't hide any longer. We can now confirm Kirk does take command of the Enterprise at the age of 16 after failing all of his classes during his freshman year at the academy, which is naturally hidden at a secret air force base in Nevada, and which is naturally being picketed by students holding signs. But you should see the way it's shot. You'll love it.
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Not sure how well it's going to fly, but it seems more then likly that Abramsi s aiming for a generational shift, and it's needed. The old Trek fans are just that,old. At some point in time and I knew it was coming, in fact all the fans should've, but everyone should relaize that trek needed to be reimaginatyed or rebooted for the new generation. It just a given plain in simple. I like some of the elements i heard so far. I like that Abrams isn't trying to exactly copy the Trek's that have come before him. I want to see the design of the enterprise. I've always felt that the old ship from the 60's would look dated considering today's fx and sci-fi advancments. I'm not to crazy about time travle, How many times can you harp on that time crap. Not sure about Kirk, maybe it'll work. Anything has got to be better then the current boringness of Trek.
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They cast DeForrest Kelley as McCoy in the second pilot, and the first ep actually aired was a McCoy ep about a salt monster (the rocket scientists running the network pushed Roddenberry to rip off Lost in Space and do a stupid monster episode). DeForrest Kelley didn't get his name in the opening credits until the second season. They also added Walter Koenig second season as eye candy for the girls. <p> The older doctor who mixes drinks for Pike was only in the first pilot, which was later recycled for the two-parter where Spock takes over the Enterprise to take the disabled Pike to the planet with the dudes with the big heads.
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Wondering if anyone would bite onto that one. Congrats. You get a Gold Star.
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LOL Yes. It does take keen observation, which is why I've spent the afternoon here with some of you. Kidding. Sorry. Couldn't help myself. But seriously, what exactly is so wrong with a mute/rock'n'roll playing robot pissing on The Jesus? And the "My Bad"-- we came up with that in the editing room with Bay. Come to think of it, Damon Lindelof came to help us for a day to punch up some moment, and it coulda' been the four of us having fun and ruining western cinema for you.
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I even teared up a little during the scene where the rest of the Autobots were arriving on Earth. Pretty dope.
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wont ever happen, but at the same time, i wont go to the cinema or buy the dvd for any other trek movie. that series needs to be recognised. if they can make films of cancelled series like serenity, or sequels to movies that were shit with a shit concept like avp-r, then someone can scrounge up the scant millions for a ds9 movie. or else no monies from me.
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Fuck that pisses me off. Transformers was cool. In the 80s.<p><p>That movie seriously blew chunks and stripped almost all that was cool from it.Turned the transformers into a joke. Characters being able to created out of thin air with the "allspark" cheapened the existence of Transformers. And being able to transform into whatever vehicle they drive past cheapened the fact that they transform.<p>And Optimus Prime saying "My Bad" was just the tip of the iceberg in where you went wrong with that character. First he wasn't a freaking clutz in the cartoon. This is the first scene where he's walking around and hes a bumbling idiot. COME ON.
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What is so wrong about the bumblebee pissing scene is that...........robots don't piss. The first mistake with that character however was that you made him a mute. And for what? That scene where he first met Shia and so that they could play charades??<p><p>Actually even bigger mistake was that the fight scene where bumblebee saved Sam. You didn't even see it happen. So basically afterwards we NEEDED the scene where Sam says "WOW he's my protector??" Show don't tell. Isn't that what they say?
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C'mon...
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your childhood was asking for it.
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i want to make passionate, violent love to you.<P>I know you are some dude with a screenname, I don't give a shit.<P>a mouth is a mouth.
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Nuh-uh that's totally milla! <br><br> Why else would they've said "I've never used my fame to get roles, but I always wanted to do Farscape"? Why else would they've returned to AICN after an eternity in a talkback devoted to that shitty director guy that knocked her up? <br><br> Totally her. Totally. <br><br> We already suspect a good portion of the talkback community are studio plants. Is it so hard to imagine that the possibility of someone with celebrity stature is hanging out with us within this verbal firing range of Hollywood we got goin' here? <br><br> Now you may say "Why the Sam Hill would she use her own name as a handle?". I'll tell ya why! Because she's a GENIUS, that's why. By using her real name, most would assume (like you did) it's just "some dude", no one would expect someone as famous and as smokin' hot as she is, would waste a minute of her time hangin' out with the "ham'n'eggers" like you and I , assuming you're not a celebrity yourself, that is. It's the perfect freakin' cover for her to jump in, chat it up with the regular folk, and attract a few "I be wantin' ta screw ya's" comments in the process. <br><br> But sadly, that also prevents her from concentrating on what she should have strived for all these years, and that is......quit making shitty movies! <br><br> But of course, telling your hubby that he's a hack and you'd rather disassociate yourself from him professionally, wouldn't be such a good for the marriage. Now would it? <br><br> Didn't think so.
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He admitted it himself. It sounds like Abrams got the character of James T. Kirk down PERFECTLY, based on what that lecherous clown has been pulling since the 1960s.<p>I can't WAIT to see this jackass get pilloried on the big screen.
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And you don't need to see their movie. I understand if you're a fan of the Star Trek, but it's obvious this won't be a Star Trek movie. Go watch something else, like, I don't know...Star Trek maybe. As for Transformers, I thought the first one sucked so when the second one comes out, I'll probably just watch whatever other more deserving movie is out that day. You want these piss poor adaptations to stop? STOP WATCHING THIS CRAP AND EVENTUALLY THEY WILL GO AWAY! Don't download it. Don't rent it. Don't buy a ticket to another movie and sneak in to it. Just let it die. That being said, I hope you all enjoy this crap opening night because there's gonna be more crap just like it to follow if you keep patronizing it.
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.....who on earth greenlit this pile of crap? We're fed up with having the stories we think we know, adjusted and tweaked and more often, completely raped to produce lacklustre tosh. Loved Star Trek for years, would have preferred a couple of stars from Voyager, Ds9 and TNG to be cherry picked, dumped on a new enterprise and set after the existing continuity. Won't be paying money to see JJ's "vision". Thank god there are a ton of better sounding films this year to keep me distracted. This will flop. Star Trek will die forever and I will be very sad.
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Or "wazzup" when he meets spock for the first time? Well ya gotta be hip for the kids!!!
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Jan. 6, 2008, 7:38 a.m. CST
Did I read this right, just out of the Academy
by Grammaton Cleric Binks
and Kirk gets command of a starship. And all the other stuff is just destroying the ST canon. This sounds like garbage. If you want to do a prequel fine, but stick with canon. Every ST show, even Enterprise, tried to honor Roddenbury's vision. This one sounds like they're pissing on it.
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There seems to be this little factor that EVERYONE has forgotten relating to the Kobyashi Mary test and Kirk receiving command of the Enterprise. The Kobyashi Maru test is NOT something given to all Starfleet cadets; it is reserved only for officers who RETURN to the academy to attend COMMAND SCHOOL. Look at TWOK. It begins with Lieutenant Savikk taking the test. Cadets are not officers, they are cadets. Savikk is in COMMAND SCHOOL, following a few years of active service. The actual US Navy has a similar structure; you go to the academy, get your commission, then begin service. After a while, if you want certain advancements, there are schools to prepare you for certain higher positions. Ever heard of the Naval War College? Theoretically, Kirk would go to Command School as a Lieutenant (keeping the FARRAGUT story in continuity) or even as a commander. He was, after all, supposed to be the youngest captain in the history of Starfleet, taking command of the Enterprise at 29.
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Over at Trekmovie Roberto Orci is calling Quint out, both on the fact that your source is lying, and that Quint has a vendetta against him. Whatcha going to do about that Quint. Going to be a pussy and not comment on the fact that the skriptwriter is calling you out?
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So fuck you. No one gives a shit if you didn't rent the Transformers. And for that I'm thankful, that's just one less asshole I'll have to worry about slowing down my Net Flix que. And Transformers 2 will make one Billion. Mark my words chump.
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Optimus prime is a 30 ft fucking robot. And you expect him to navigate someones backyard without stepping on their flower pots? That was a real life translation as to what would happen a if 30ft robot interacted in a human enviorment. He was not a bumbling idiot, and by him saying my bad was his attempt to humanize the character. But we don't expect dumb asses like you understand. So please stop passing of your meaningless opninion as fact.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 10:13 a.m. CST
No comments to my previous post regarding the lame "go back in t
by tritium
with the Romulans going back in time to kill Kirk...well, that makes absolutely no sense unless you are of the most unintelligent, un-imaginative types. Just think about it for a moment. The Romulan empire wants to kill one human (Kirk) to eliminate the threat he poses ??? Why don't they instead go back in time, and fuckin' steralize the planet Earth so no humans arise, thus eliminating competition from a technologically advanced, intelligent species. Wouldn't that make more sense?
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Of course, I acknowledge that would not make for a very interesting movie. Nevertheless, that would be what the Romulans would really do, if time travel were possible...putting aside the massive paradoxes and changes to their own present/future timeline.
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was that the Decepticons were defeated mostly by humans, and Megatron was captured by humans in the begining. The storyline created for the toyline in the 80s in the form of cartoon and comic book was WAY BETTER. <p>The Allspark location is imprinted on grandpa WITWICKYS GLASSES? How stupid is that? <p> Optimus Prime and the Decepticons find the glasses by seeing a jpeg of them on E-bay??? I mean, I can think of a hundred better ways.
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Very poorly written end scene. On top of that you felt that Superman really wanted his family heirloom back, (the crystal) he was pretty sure about wanting it back , it was the first thing he said to Luthor but when Luthor dropped it. He didn't even bother to find it. He just magically got his power back and somehow was able to throw the whole island into space...
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Pther than that crap scene, and the son.. Routh was a great Superman and did convey the character very well. Wish I could say the same for any of the Transformers.
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The Area-51 tie in is fucking brilliant. I'm the voice of the average movie goer in these rambunctous talkbacks. So I speak from the average fans perspective. The average fan is still mystified and intrigued about Area-51. And with the constant documentarys being made about it by the History Channel, TLC, Discovery, etc, proves that this is a hot topic that the average American can't get enough of. So by connecting the construction of the Starship enterprise to Area-51, will reinforce your connection with your target audience(Younger movie goers). And create an aura of wonder and mysticism something that the franchise hasn't had since the Warth of Khan.
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I hope you read this, as a big star trek fan i will say this, all these people are clearly morons, i will judge the film and your script when the movie is out and finished, personally i hope you have done a great job, i enjoyed Mi3 a hell of a lot despite some corny moments, corny moments are not for depressive geeky nerds hence why these poor souls hit out :P Transformers could of been much worse with Bay Directing, who's to know how much of it is him making changes (obviously its a different process to working with JJ as your on the same page as him for the most part. Obviously your not gonna speak bad about directors / producers that hack up your scripts) Either best of luck with the film, i can't wait and i dont intend on reading spoilers :) Understand though... if you hurt my beloved star trek i shall have to come to america and spank you ;) Take it ex and gl.
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sorry for my poor spelling and such, it's my first post on here and I somewhat rushed it.
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The AVERAGE movie goer HOPEFULLY isn't a fucking DOLT like you sir.<p><p> HOW MANY FUCKING MOVIES are going to tell us that Area-51 is the cause of their; alien lifeform, super technology, etc..<p> I didn't like how Megatron was handled here either. Megatron was found by humans and thats where humans got all our technology from? Reverse engineered from Megatron? Way to try and shoehorn in your idea.<p> I would have preferred the Autobots and Decepticons simply come here and consider our technology primitive. I would also prefer that the transformers alternate modes were simply a disguise. If you looked at the parts inside it was 100% alien. Its one thing to buy them wanting to disguise themselves as vehicles but to buy them wanting to BECOME that vehicle makes it kind of lame in my opinion. It shouldn't affect their robot mode so much. And there should NOT be an engine under the hood that a 16 year old girl would understand and be able to fix.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 11:05 a.m. CST
BOB ORCI IS NOT ONLY UNORIGINAL, BUT A PLAGIARIST TOO
by BringingSexyBack
Area 51 to build the Enterprise? How do you build a spaceship on Earth and get it into space? Trying watching some ST movies, Orci - they built them in space. Who the fuck are you to think you can "improve" that. Not only that, you got the Area significance straight out of Men In Black. Ah, this will suck. And Gany, the way you make excuses for total and utter mediocrity is really sad. I just read the trekmovie boards. That's the place for you. Simple people with low expectations, who get a kick out of asking Bob Orci for a "high-five". Geezus.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 11:08 a.m. CST
BRUTICUS - GOOD POINT ABOUT REVERSE ENGINEERING MEGATRON
by BringingSexyBack
That came right out of Men In Black too. Apparently that's where Orci gets all his ideas. <p>HACKING PLAGIARIST
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I think that Area-51 is where they first meet Spock, the first Vulcan or some shit. He comes through the portal. Just come up with a new place for christ sake.
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Please learn from your mistakes and don't treat people as such and your movies will be more well respected. Orci, I know you're a smart guy. Write for smart people, for FUCK SAKE.<p><p>Atleast then you will have better reviews. If the people or kids or middle america or WHOEVER you're writing for are too dumb then they will grow into it. THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND.
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They'd be in Japan, not Area 51. Or Cupertino.
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All your months, and months, of crying, whailing, kicking, and screaming about the Transformers. About how it was going to suck, yada yada, yada, and do I need to quote you in your Transformers review? You're a fucking Mitt Romeny movie fan, a fucking flip flopper that says one thing and does another. You have no credibility to judge movies. So talk all the shit you want about Star Trek. Because come movie time, you'll drop to your news and sucks Bobs dick, and praise his work, just as you did Michael Bays when Transformers came out. I like you man, but you're a fucking flip flopper, and your past record proves it. So fuck you and pass the blunt bitch.
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but you gotta admit, Transformers did suck balls, unless you were simply expecting a CG suckfest
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through a timetwistdevice and bring Allen Shore along and fuck every women onboard the Enterprise!
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When did it become a problem with the writers union for a film director to make on-the-set changes? I always thought that stuff happened all the time, cause I clearly recall it being a complaint by writers of film\TV that their "babies" were being changed without their input! So why the issue here??
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So you're waisting your time trying to convince me. 700 million Bruticus, you disillusioned combaticion.
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Nice ref. And very much correct about Canon. I suppose I've always been a closet Trekkie, but seriously, JJA better not fuck this up. I can understand B&B f'ing this up, but this is a smart guy. This should be an easier movie to make. Star Trek Canon is the blueprint and clearly we did not get the full five mission on NBC when it was originally aired. Just stay consistent with ST:Canon, offer a new and compelling story- preferable without time travel and more in depth character review like you'd see in the ST novels.
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When did I write a Transformers review? And please quote me where I praised that movie. I might have given it faint praise at best, as a stupid ass popcorn movie, but never have I "flip-flopped" and said I love that piece of shit. Because I didn't, don't and never will. And I never stopped hating Michael Bay - he certainl didn't earn any respect after Transformers.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 11:47 a.m. CST
GANY, I THINK YOU CONFUSED MY REACTION TO CASINO ROYALE
by BringingSexyBack
with Transformers. with Casino Royale, I totally did a 180 and recanted everything I said about Craig. He totally pulled it off as Bond, needless to say. CR wasn't perfect, but it's still great. Definitely NOT the case with Transformers.
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IS STAR TREK GOING TO BE A POPCORN FLICK TOO?
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I agree that something original should be done with Trek. I'm thinking there must be some kind of curse with Trek now. Always a rehash and never anything thrillingly new.
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It's kind of like the Alamo of Assault on Precinct 13. This movie has to be damn good and make a buck or the franchise is dead. I'm really rooting for this film, because I've enjoyed Trek since I was a kid. Unfortunately, Voyager was a travesty and Enterprise was middling. If there's anything that Enterprise has shown us, it's that mediocre is not enough to save the franchise. This new movie better be a home run. Of course, with the last great series almost a decade behind us, perhaps it's not the worst thing to let Trek stay dead.
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Did you not see the Transformers? After trashing it for months? So who gives a fuck if you like Area-51 are not. Because you'll pay to see the movie any fucking way (mission accomplished). And I do stand corrected on your TF review, that was Messi I was confusing you with. But still, who cares about your objections, you'll see the shit anyway, and Transformers 2 is going to fucking own. See you in theater flip flopper:)
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Glad you didnt!
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They stop trying to please the 40 year old fan boi's who still wear halloweeen costumes and lipstick. It's time to please the general auidence, the subpar set pieces, storylines, and mediocre cinematography that has plagued this franchise appear to be comming to an end. The more the trekkies cry, the better this movie will be. And Kurk cheating, Area-51 brilliant. This movie will be cinema gold. You go JJ & Bob.
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You are kidding, right?<p> With very few exceptions, almost all revolutionary, pioneering, technological discoveries and inventions, in the modern era, have been by the USA.<p>Here is a list of Nobel Prize winners in Physics by Americans:<p> 1907, Physics, Albert A. Michelson 1923, Physics, Robert A. Millikan 1927, Physics, Arthur H. Compton 1936, Physics, Carl D. Anderson 1937, Physics, Clinton Davisson 1939, Physics, Ernest Lawrence 1943, Physics, Otto Stern 1944, Physics, Isidor Isaac Rabi 1946, Physics, Percy W. Bridgman 1952, Physics, Felix Bloch 1952, Physics, E. M. Purcell 1955, Physics, Willis E. Lamb 1955, Physics, Polykarp Kusch 1956, Physics, John Bardeen 1956, Physics, Walter H. Brattain 1956, Physics, William B. Shockley 1959, Physics, Emilio Segrè 1959, Physics, Owen Chamberlain 1960, Physics, Donald A. Glaser 1961, Physics, Robert Hofstadter 1963, Physics, Eugene Wigner 1963, Physics, Maria Goeppert-Mayer 1964, Physics, Charles H. Townes 1965, Physics, Richard P. Feynman 1965, Physics, Julian Schwinger 1967, Physics, Hans Bethe 1968, Physics, Luis Alvarez 1969, Physics, Murray Gell-Mann 1972, Physics, John Bardeen 1972, Physics, Leon N. Cooper 1972, Physics, Robert Schrieffer 1973, Physics, Ivar Giaever 1975, Physics, James Rainwater 1976, Physics, Burton Richter 1976, Physics, Samuel C. C. Ting 1977, Physics, John H. van Vleck 1977, Physics, Philip W. Anderson 1978, Physics, Arno Penzias 1978, Physics, Robert Woodrow Wilson 1979, Physics, Sheldon Glashow 1979, Physics, Steven Weinberg 1980, Physics, James Cronin 1980, Physics, Val Fitch 1981, Physics, Arthur L. Schawlow 1981, Physics, Nicolaas Bloembergen 1982, Physics, Kenneth G. Wilson 1983, Physics, Subramanyan Chandrasekhar 1983, Physics, William A. Fowler 1988, Physics, Melvin Schwartz 1988, Physics, Jack Steinberger 1988, Physics, Leon M. Lederman 1989, Physics, Hans G. Dehmelt 1989, Physics, Norman F. Ramsey 1990, Physics, Jerome I. Friedman 1990, Physics, Henry W. Kendall 1993, Physics, Joseph H. Taylor Jr. 1993, Physics, Russell A. Hulse 1994, Physics, Clifford G. Shull 1995, Physics, Martin L. Perl 1995, Physics, Frederick Reines 1996, Physics, Douglas D. Osheroff 1996, Physics, Robert C. Richardson 1996, Physics, David M. Lee 1997, Physics, Steven Chu 1997, Physics, William D. Phillips 1998, Physics, Robert B. Laughlin 1998, Physics, Daniel C. Tsui 2000, Physics, Jack S. Kilby 2001, Physics, Carl E. Wieman 2001, Physics, Eric A. Cornell 2002, Physics, Riccardo Giacconi 2002, Physics, Raymond Davis Jr. 2003, Physics, Alexei A. Abrikosov (also Russia) 2004, Physics, David J. Gross 2004, Physics, H. David Politzer 2004, Physics, Frank Wilczek 2005, Physics, Roy J. Glauber 2005, Physics, John L. Hall 2006, Physics, John C. Mather 2006, Physics, George F. Smoot
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Jan. 6, 2008, 12:01 p.m. CST
GANY - HOW CAN YOU CONFUSE ME WITH FOUL-MOUTHED MESSI?
by BringingSexyBack
Just kidding, Mess. <p> Gany, I don't know how much Netflix pays Michael Bay for sending me a disc, but he didn't make much from me, I assure you. I would never pay $24 to see Transformers, and it won't happen with Star Trek either, at least this one. You're good people, Gany - we just disagree on certain movies. It's all good.
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Because you hate illegal aliens. Just beacause they came to our planet without a greencard, doesn't give you clearance to expouse your bias against autotonomous beings;)
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Well, my point was more tongue-in-cheek. America leads the world in discoveries but Japan is better at innovation and execution. I know the gap has closed a lot in the last 10 years, though. But it doesn't matter because both countries export the manufacturing to China anyway.
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"Why can't America make a VCR worth a fuck" Come on dude. They have Sony, we have RCA, they have Sharp, we have Vizio. We have the ford focus, they have honda civic, see where I'm going. Those nobel prize winners don't amount to shit, when I got to the pump and fill up my inferior, gas guzziling american piece of shit.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 12:07 p.m. CST
GANY - BETWEEN ILLEGAL ALIENS RUNNING RAMPANT ACROSS AMERICA
by BringingSexyBack
and Michael Bay making movies written by Bob Orci, this country is going to hell in a hand basket.
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I just hope it ain't made in Canada ...
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That was a cruel Swiftboat attack but let the record show the truth - Transformers doth sucketh.
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I don't mind the liberties taken with the Trek universe so long as they're geared towards bringing in more fans. If they worry too much about continuity it will kill the film. Take the recent Spiderman films for example, they took the spirit of the comic book but ignored the point by point plots of earlier stories. Granted, those take place within a different continuity, but the idea is the same. Don't be a slave to continuity and geek pedantry if that means you will sacrifice audience. I think this is why I'm less concerned about the details of this film before I've seen it than I am about other movies. They need to make some radical changes to save the franchise. If they don't then it's dead.
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Being a slave to "geek-pedantry" has stagnated this franchise for the last 20 years. As you mentioned, without some radical changes this franchise is doomed.
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Would they choose to be at the World's epicenter of revolutionary research and discovery (USA), or simply where there is mass-market, low cost manufacturing of products (Japan) that are only the result of the original pioneering theoretical and experimental discoveries by the USA?
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then you are just being stubborn, and refuse to really put some thought into this.
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I would say that's proof that the aliens are already there:)
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Maybe I'm really just Shermy. I'm "havin' a laugh." But then again, Shermy LIVES here, so when would I have time to make all these shitty movies?
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You would own Kirk!
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well, not as bad as the Deep Space Nine one. But that was because of the writing. That show was a damn soap opera set in outer space for the first half of the seasons.<p>Picard and Janeway were awesome.
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because I'm making a film with Paul "Dees Nutz" Verhoeven. And I'm too old to be in this Trek!
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I'm some hairy dude. But hey, a mouth is a mouth, right?
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Jan. 6, 2008, 2:02 p.m. CST
HEY MILLA - YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT LAST STARFIGHTER SEQUEL
by BringingSexyBack
They do remakes and sequels to every movie that doesn't need one ... BUT no sequel to the granddaddy of CGI sci-fi movies? That ending screamed sequel, a good one. But then again, no writer out there would be able to do it justice today anyway. So maybe we're better off with just a fantastic film to look back upon.
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You could poke someone's eyes out with those little pink spikes! Delicious!
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You could reset a wireless router with that little pink spike. Useful!
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If not, ask Paul to make one up.
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A good parallel between the two stories.
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to be a Green Lantern because he's good at a Green Lantern video game? Um... I think the Green Lantern film should be "modeled" after the Abin Sur/Sinestro origin arc, not after an update of the Arthurian myth.
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Profusely entrenched into your never world of geekdom.Where any change in direction is violently opposed, as if the director was attempting rewrite the book of jobe. Transformers were made for people like me. Not people like you who rather spend time playing magic in the gathering, complaining about something isignificant, such as flames on a truck, or organic web shooters. Thanks GOD Bay didn't listen to fucktards like you. If he did, we would of had simplistic boxy robots, that wouldn't of generated enough revenue to warrant a sequel. Snakes on Plane proved that you should never listen to internet nerds. Because if you do, you'll end up only pleasing a small minority, and not generate enough revenue to warrant a sequel.
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I got tired of getting wanked in the fucking face, so last year I packed up my shit and moved into the nice little condominium across the street.
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The core fanbase wasn't as opposed to the designs in Bayformers, as they were with the characterizations ...or lack there of. Not really touching on the Starscream/Megatron dynamic (other than one measly line) was a bad move.
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Anyway I loved the nudity, still have stains on my screen. You should do porn...
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That point being, it's not financially prudent to "write" anything too cerebral (or creative, apparently) in Hobush. Yardstompers still has a 7.6 rating over at IMDB. __________ As for this looming masterpiece -- I'll probably wait for the rental DVD. I don't think I could sit through crap -- no, sorry, piss -- like TF all the way to the end again and know that I actually paid for it with a bill.
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... I can not believe how many people here are either jealous or plain blinded. Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams, are NOT pissing all over something you care about. Why? Because that person was fired when his contract was up in 2005. Paramount made a great decision bringing these guys onboard. Robert, my only question would be is if you have seen Star Trek Nemesis? If so, I would love to hear your thoughts on the movie and on Rick the Dick Berman. I personally hated the movie. I blame Spiner, Berman and Stewart for thinking they were Trek writers and Stuart Baird for being non shalant about making a good Trek movie. In closing, I am behind you guys one hundred percent. If Nimoy likes it, it has my seal of approval.
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and they're laughing their ass off at him too.
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In "Starfighter Begins".
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with gaming as big as it is now? They could do a really good video game as a tie-in to the film. Lance Guest lost a lot of hair since the film, though. AND both Dan O'Herlihy and Robert Preston are taking dirtnaps. Catherine Mary Stewart's still looking pretty good, though. Think of it: a stoner couch potato like me could be the Galaxy's final hope! "Greetings Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan armada. Get ready! Prepare for blast-off!"
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Real fans. Real debate. No affiliation to Paramount or to production.
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Go to TrekMovie for real news. Fawning praise of you. Nimoy posting bland blogs. Fanboy anticipation of a sorry retread. BTW, a friend of mine was an extra who held one of those "Kirk Cheated" signs, so are you denying that scene too?
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I might use a bad word and make them cry and tell their mommies.
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*Raising hand in anticipation*
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Now the whole world can see what a petty,juvenile little man Bob Orci really is. If his pissy little comments here in anyway contribute to him getting LESS work on future fanboy films,then this talkback will have all been worth it. Hope Nimoy bitchslaps the stupid out of your script once the strike is over....
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We'll know where he stole the idea. You're being watched, Orci. <P> BTW, are you watching MIB 2 for more story ideas?
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If ever there was a TB screaming for his participation, this is it.
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Who's being pissy? I said before, just having a little fun here... taking AICN for a spin. Are you the only ones who are allowed to be juvenile little men? l Not fair! NOT FAIR!
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And if contriubutes to making Trek national news a year before the movie, it will have been worth it, too.
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We're actually looking to steal from things a little farther back so you won't notice so easily.
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Don Murphy?
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Still waiting for denial of picketers carrying KIRK CHEATED signs. That's kinda like a Bond girl walking outside MI6 with a sandwich board reading BOND SCREWS AROUND.
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Star Trek.
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I wanted you to know how YOU SIR ruined one DAY in my LIFE!Some here bitch and curse at you,but I am so sad that I saw that NON-MOVIE,that I am just really SAD that YOU SIR still do scripts that are beeing made in other NON-MOVIES!Hollywood is going down BIG-TIME!YOU SIR SHOULD BE ASHAMED.
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I really came to respect him for a few reasons. It was on his message board that we first started interacting with Transformers fans, and their input was a serious presence in the development of the movie (probably more so than any movie ever, so far). Not everybody got what they wanted, but everybody had a voice. We've started a similar dialogue with Trek fans based on our experiences with Don. He was never afraid to interact with people even if it sometimes means sticking your foot in your mouth. Look forward to getting back to work with him on Transformers 2.
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I'm not ashamed. Not for a second. but I respect your opinion and I'm very sorry you feel that way.
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Remember the days when people had thick skins and ignored this stuff? It's so much more fun when the pros show they're just as immature as the fanboys. Oh, third time asking: What about those KIRK CHEATED signs?
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Quint graciously e-mailed me to determine if I wanted to extend a denial of any of his source's review. I thanked him for the offer. but declined because if we get into the habit of denying every false rumor that comes our way over the next year, then we'll be stuck when someone finally says something that's entirely true in that our silence will, in essence, be a confirmation. I will say that I agree with your assessment of the obviousness of said situation.
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If someone (a fan) actually gave you a unique idea for either Transformers, OR Star Trek on one of these boards. Have you / would use it? Or would there be legal complications? Or would you feel you have to go another route because it wasn't your own?
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Do you NOT want us to read your opinions? is that why you post here? To NOT have your sentiments read? The thick skin is required TO BE HERE, not to avoid it.
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Specifically i'd like to know: HAVE you done this. <p>Considering all this unique fan involvement. Nice to know what has actually been achieved from this.
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he probably doesn't want to be too official. I wouldn't either. Its him though.
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Donny Two Chins. Please tell him we say hello.
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We always make sure we have enough of the spine of the movie before we open it to interaction. On Transformers, we absolutely listened to fans and used fan input. The legal issues when taking an original idea. But on known properties (which are already created and owned), and where fan interaction is often expressing preferences for one thing or another from the material's own back story, then there's no problem.
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All of that pent up rage towards Transformers that he could have unleashed on one of the guys who actually wrote the thing! It could only have been better if Bay had been on this TB!
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Jan. 6, 2008, 7:01 p.m. CST
BOB, IS YOUR NAME PRONOUNCED OR-KEE, OR-CHEE OR OR-SEE?
by BringingSexyBack
High-five?
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Jan. 6, 2008, 7:03 p.m. CST
IAMMRMONKEY ... IMAGINE IF RINGWEARER9 HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH
by BringingSexyBack
We could've just sat back and enjoyed the fray.
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but you know the deal ...
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Damn you michael bay!
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but if it's supposed to differentiate me somehow, I don't want it.
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Orsee! High Five!
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... assholes, everyone's got them. It doesn't take courage for you to come here, but a lack of common sense since now that a thread that would normally go ignored will go on and on and on now that the rabble has gotten the attention of TPTB. Stallone was smart how he spun us. It feels like you're defensive and worried about something. You should just ignore all this shit, but answer about the KIRK CHEATED sign.
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Don't really know Ringwearer9. Who does he dislike? Peter Jackson?
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him cheat Kobayashi Maru?
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without confirming or denying the premise of your question, i can say that we discussed Carol Marcus at length.
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High-five right back atcha.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 7:23 p.m. CST
OKAY, I'LL TAKE THAT AS CONFIRMATION OF CAROL MARCUS
by BringingSexyBack
Thanks.
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The depth of his hatred is as deep as that pit Sauron fell into. Whatever that's called.
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I'll skip over Transformers but i'll congratulate you on Mission Impossible 3. I really enjoyed that movie although i think the Davian character should have gotten more screen time. He wasn't in it enough! But congratulations nonetheless. It was a hundred times better than MI2.
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here's something I always wanted to see, lets see if you can use it when the strike is over... <p>it better works for a scene back on Cybertron but doesn't have to be exclusive to there. A scene where the autobots are walking through unknown territory and in pitch black... they reach a dead end and start hearing things transform all around them. you know things are transforming just from the sound. but the lights are on the autobots, then a group of decepticons (or maybe mysterious autobots) come to emerge from the darkness. OK back to Star Trek :D
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I'm not here to spin you. I'm here to practice dealing with the reality of fan interaction on properties that are this well known, and to attempt to make the process more transparent and accessible. I'm not gonna pretend the "review" didn't piss me off -- but because it got personal, not because I'm particularly threatened by any of its claims or am doubting the choices we've made collectively.
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I meant Balrog. Balrog's pit of doom.
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With that AICN handle i guessed he'd be a die hard LOTR fan!
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But I read elsewhere that the real Bob Orci was here and wanted to say, if it hasn't already been said, that Mr. Orci gots some BALLZ for signing in as himself. Hats off to you man. They get so viscious in here and forget that at the heart of every [read: most] movie is a screenwriter with really great intentions and maybe even a few degrees... So yeah, that's mighty cool of you. Meanwhile, I'm still open minded. Plot points notwithstanding, it takes something called an ACTOR to make any script, no matter how well or poorly written, bankable so let's just wait and see what happens. I have faith.
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inform your writing? <p> Gene Roddenberry's Liberal worldview obviously influenced his Star Trek stories and character creations. Do you and Kurtzman hold similar values and use them as a guide to continue Roddenberry's tradition?
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We're being nice to Mr. Orci. Except for what I wrote last night - don't read that.
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And what about Mr.Nice Gaius?Anybody know something?
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Many proven flamers are biting their tongues and are showing much graciousness -- expect for what you wrote last night. ;-)
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I have my moments ...
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I would like to understand how you can justify a script filled with as many inconsistancies as Transformers? Yeah, it was an all around fun flick and isn't intended to be serious, but as a writer, don't you feel regret when something you create has so many obvious hack jobs, like a pair of glasses somehow being etched with a map? How contrived is that? Did you write the attrocious dialogue, or was that the actors'/director's fault? Or how about a decision to have the transformers battle each other as little as possible? <p>As for the supposed script leak of Star Trek, if you say that most of that leak is bunk, then I do believe you. However, I would like to ask if you feel you wrote Star Trek's script more intelligently than Transformers, or did you fill it with obvious contrivences as well?
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Now Orci is here debunking their article? Hmmm!
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BTW "Give us, us free. Give us...free." is Djimon Hounsou's line at the end of the trial in AMISTAD.
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and disrespectful, but even though I give you props for writing a good Mission Impossible film, I've had to sit through your other creations: The Island, Legend of Zoro, and Transformers. All of those films were absolutely filled with some of the laziest written cliches and obvious reveals that fall squarely on your shoulders. Yeah, I realize that you are now successfully writing (which is every writer's dream) and I honestly do wish you well, but I can't help but feel you are either extremely lazy in your plotting, or are being voted down by higher forces. Oh well, thanks for reading my rant, at least.
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Is he stuck in the Phantom Zone?
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Harry, let him go! He may have helped the Cylons but he still has freedom of speech!
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Perhaps debunking this stuff over at TrekMovie would be enough, but it doesn't get the level of play as things do here. I think you should either ignore all this or offer an official denial for the site to run, but you're taking a lot of abuse and not hitting back as a bigshot, just as a fellow poster so I actually think that's pretty cool. These boards are 90% schadenfrued, as you can no doubt see. There's always gonna' be bad rumors about Star Trek, so maybe it would be best to just let the work speak for itself? I would think the minute a teaser trailer runs even the biggest flamer might get a hard on. What do you think?
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Mori adressed us yesterday that they are working on the problem.I thought maybe someone knew something new.
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My political views must somehow bleed in subliminally, but it's less about beliefs and more about our understanding of current events and raising questions. For example, Transformers opens on an attack on our forward operations base in Qatar. Although we had military help, their hardware represented the villains (decepticons) and our Pentagon characters mistakenly believe the U.S itself to be the target of terrorists, or another country which almost leads to an needless war (they're wrong, of course). I also know that some within the real life defense department even questioned why the hell they were helping us. Is that politics? I don't know... but it gets me excited.
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I think I just figured out where that whole picketer thing came from. The WGA did indeed picket the Star Trek set one day, and some did indeed write "KIRK CHEATED" on their WGA strike signs as a joke! So witness reports of seeing that near set are probably true. However, it was an actual strike!
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I agree. some of their movies are written for THE LOWEST common denominator. is this really intentional Orci? like, the dumbest of the dumb. look at the Island. Not a bad flick in many ways, even the writing but they really seemed to try and bring back some OLD cliches in regards to the whole cloning debate. For example: humans in the future cloning people (whole premise of film) and then not treating them like real people. This is really old outdated concerns in regards to the whole cloning controversy. This would never happen. Its like going back and watching a star trek episode back in the 70s. It actually does a disservice to civilization and the dumbness of middleamerica in making them think this kinda shit could actually happen.
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The script for Transformers 2 can wait a little bit longer it seems.
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We often the debate the idea of just letting the work speak for itself, but we also believe that these properties do belong to all of us, and that letting people in on the process is an honest way of gaining support and understanding.
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Can I ask if you have a favourite script writer? And, if so, who is it?
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you should look at what most people want and HOPE to see. what are people paying for when they see this title. And craft an interesting story within that. Look at where your creative liberties lie. Find out what you can and can't change it must be part of the challenge. You can still come up with really cool shit that follows in the spirit. I would suggest just make sure the SPINE comes from those things....
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but when it comes to Star Trek, politics play a role front and center. Most of Roddenberry's stories had a direct correlation to the turmoils and issues of the time. Race, war, morality, the Cold War even ... it was all there. Even Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country reflects many contemporary issues of our time vis-a-vis the MidEast.<p> Your personal politics are your business, but I bring up the issue because this movie you're writing is a direct precursor to Roddenberry's world, his characters. I just want to know if thought is being given to bridge your and Kurtzman's world to his, and politics was the defining theme for his world.
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as I was saying above. I'd suggest the SPINE comes from those things.. NOT LITTLE LAME IDEAS FROM BAY, or SPEILBERG like...."A BOY AND HIS CAR" *cringe* fight the power Orci.
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If that's the case, then you did show courage coming here. I wasn't too keen on this STAR TREK movie, I've been burned out on it thanks to all the bad shows and movies, but your care and passion about this has changed my mind. Guess you can call what you've doing here MI4, as I'm interested in this movie now and doing that was an impossible mission. Good luck, Bob. I do mean that,
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Well, do I think anything we've ever done is perfect? Hell no. But let's take a couple of your examples: THE GLASSES: to understand that decision, you need to know that we decided early on that movie had to have a significant human POV -- this idea of a BOY AND HIS CAR. But to justify the boys involvement as something more than an accident meant that either A: the Transformers needed Sam in some chosen one kind of way or B: the Transformers needed something Sam had. The idea that his great great grandfather had discovered Megatron buried in ice, and that he inadvertently triggered his navigations system which imprinted a hologram of the coordinates into his glasses was our solution. This solution ties Sam in without being the chosen one, it ties his family history into the story, and it's simple. Now, you may still hate the solution, but you can at least, hopefully, appreciate where it came from.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 8:07 p.m. CST
I ACTUALLY THINK THE ISLAND WAS BAY'S 2ND BEST MOVIE
by BringingSexyBack
After The Rock. IMO it wasn't bad for a Bay movie.
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Favorite writers. actually, are JJ Abrams and Damon Lindelof. They rock hard.
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As a Lost fan, I really can't argue with your choice there.
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Jan. 6, 2008, 8:14 p.m. CST
BOB, CAN YOU WRITE IN A PURPLE 3-BREASTED FEMALE ALIEN?
by BringingSexyBack
For your new friends at AICN?
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You have to understand that that is a movie Dreamworks and Warner Bros. wanted to make. They bought a spec script about cloning from Caspian Treadwell Owen specifically for Bay and they brought us on as script doctors. It's not like Kurtzman and I were hankering to tell a cloning story, but we believe in our friends at Dreamworks and wanted to help them make the movie they had already invested so much into.
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It takes a lot of guts to come onto something like this and answer questions. Kudos to you, Mr Orci. And good luck with Fringe. It sounds interesting.<p>P.S I second BSB's request for a three breasted female alien. She doesn't need to be purple though.
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Trek will definitely reflect our world the way that the original series reflected the things happening then -- civil rights, women's liberation, cold war, etc...
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Nobody want to come on here and say sorry to Bob Orci for their bullshit article?
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Oh, I understand the reason you had the idea of the glasses, I just question your method. You could have just as easily had the grandfather take a piece of megatron, such as the navigational device or the holographic sensor itself, as a souvenir. That way, the family heirloom IS a piece of the transformers and actually gives that mysterious government agents, who find out about the piece through the internet, a reason to harrass Sam, and it allows the decipticons to have yet another reason to find sam's treasure--it will somehow lead to megatron. The way you did it, the agency seems tacked on, and the transformers all sound stupid by asking "where's the glasses, where's the glasses." Again, all you had to do was go beyond the obvious conrivance to satisfy the need to include sam in the plot. Do you see what I mean?
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...the last fifteen minutes or so were lame. As much as it should've happened, I understand there's no way Hunt's wife would've been allowed to die, but c'mon, was the mask gimmick really necessary? <br><br> Also, after reading the leaked script for Transformers, and having a less than favorable opinion of it, I still lined up for the midnight showing due to one scene. A scene that would have been iconic. But unfortunately that scene never made it to screen. <br><br> Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to nix the Mount Everest finale for Shia and Fox dry humping atop Bumblebee as the other Autobots looked on?
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If this truely you speaking on this thread...First, to take the amount of heat your getting and to keep responding - you MUST have a set of kahonies as big as church bells. Secondly, I would like to ask you a question about the process your script goes through before being made. The question is this: For Transformers (just as an example), how many times did the script get revised, and who wanted the revisions? Do you actually start with something that is a direct storyline from the original source material (like Transformers in the 80s or Trek), and then the producers, directors and actors force changes for whatever reasons they think are appropriate? I've heard some actors like Tom Hanks or Harrison Ford will go around and around with the script until they get exaclty what they want to say in writing. Do the producers have little fucktards who have their how-to manuals for making movies based on lemming focus groups (i.e. this character should be a minorty, the story should have this plot twist at this certain point, etc. - If you ever saw Aaron Sorkin's Sports Night and William H. Macy's character specifically you'll understand what I'm referring to)? If there is a lot of BS editing of the script that deviates from the original source material simply to stroke someone else's raging ego, then I think the focus of blame needs to be less on the script writers. Anyway, I'm curious to see your answers.
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I'm not sure I see much difference in your solution, except it's less dramatic in that grandpa isn't blinded. I'm also not sure how obvious it is to have a hologram etched into his glasses as opposed to taking a keepsake. but I respect your opinion nonetheless. Your solution works as well.
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yeah, I liked that, too! Couldn't afford it and we ran out of time in the schedule.
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and be faithful to his vision. <p> On another note, do you get more chicks as "Bob" or "Roberto"?
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On the obvious Indipendence Day "borrowing," and overly-obvious shoe-horning of pointless character plots. Again, these are all classic examples of lazy writing. <p>Also, I don't mean to spend so much time on Transformers, its just that that film is your most recent. I could just as easily harp about your other works, and script doctoring or no, there were endless cliches abound. <p>I guess what I'm really asking is, whose fault is it that such plot points, characterizations, and dialogue exist? Do the producers or directors tell you what scenes/people/lines to write and you are simply forced to present such ideas in as good a light as possible, or are you permitted more carte blanche?
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It's different on every script. On Transformers, we wrote a draft before Michael Bay attached that he never saw. the studio wanted some changes, but they actually didn't want as many changes as Alex Kurtzman (my writing partner) and I wanted. So we locked ourselves away and did a second draft doing our more extensive notes. The second draft is the one that got Bay attached, and from then on it was a constant process of revisions. in fact, since the Transformers were animated, we had the rare experience of being able to rewrite some of their dialogue in the editing room before the final FX came in.
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And I realize that you don't see the difference, Bob. After seeing your films, I can readily tell you can't see the difference between loopy plot contrivance and logical progression. ;)
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I kinda already knew that. Infact the movie was really enjoyable it was just the whole premise that bothered me.
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As far as "fault" -- it's different on every project. As far as borrowing, I'll be you that whatever you think was borrowed was actually in transformers backstory (which included about 20 years of cartoons, comics, graphic novels, etc). If you point out some Island cliches, I'll discuss them.
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when a laser shot into his eyes, thereby etching a holographic coordinate system into his glasses. Remember how he fell on the floor in agony?
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Thanks for responding to my question, I hope you don't mind my asking more...When you are working on something like a Transformers or Trek where there is previous source material, how much of your script is based on maintaining the source material, and how much creative license is allowed?
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of MCMXVII? Thanks.
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looking for apologies from pro moderators. Here to talk to you. But thanks anyway!
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We're allowed as much creative license as we can persuade people we should have. No rules.
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The entire scene where the government agency reveals it knew about the transformers and had one all the time in the hoover dam was a direct lift from ID4's area 51 reveal. <p>The Island cliches, as was pointed out before me, was the entire plotline itself, though, you did actually answer that it wasn't you're fault--you were just doctoring the script. Other Island cliches: the sympathetic night watchmen/janitor (a plus when it comes to figuring a way out for our prisoners), the insertion of a car chase sequence when one wasn't required, and the obvious "duplicate is a turncoat" point that exists in nearly every past film that has dealt with cloning, duplication, or altered personalities (total recall, sixth day, and a plethora of Star Trek episodes--including their most recent film).
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However, in terms of what we decide to be persuasive about, you have to look at the source material and decide what it is that you think makes it work and try and preserve the essence of that. If ohter things from the soure material are suitable for live action, then by all means include them. But if they somehow seem at odds, that is where the hard choices start. Like how an alien from a planet that has no cars could be called an AUTOBOT.
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...would be nice for one of them to have the courage and say sorry I think. Especially as some of the stuff in the article is a tad personal.
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in a different time. I'm not sure I like this involving a plan to go back in time and kill Kirk. Or as Yack as said, baby Kirk.
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Bob: How much have you and your partner, as well as Abrams, tried to seek out some of Gene Roddenberry's original perceptions before others got involved? Did you have access to input from his family or associates aside from Nimoy, who sometimes seemed to have issue with the man? Was there some attempt to go back to the source?
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If that was truly necessary for dramatic tension, you could have had the artifact he takes as a keepsake shoot out "hollywood voodo" that would have blinded him. Personally, I dont think even you feel that this was neccessary--youre just grasping at straws for what is obviously a dopey idea--all the transformers need to hunt for the glasses!!!
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True. Roddenberry's Trek/TOS reflected the world of that era, but it also provided a pristine, reality based vision of the future which demonstrated where the best decisions of that day would likely take the human race. Those two elements were critical IMHO. How much of that is in the new Trek?
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True. Roddenberry's Trek/TOS reflected the world of that era, but it also provided a pristine, reality based vision of the future which demonstrated where the best decisions of that day would likely take the human race. Those two elements were critical IMHO. How much of that is in the new Trek?
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I actually give you a lot of respect for writing what i consider to be THE Mission Impossible film. I dont know how you did it, who pressed you into it, or how much work went into it, but I really felt you made a film that wasn't just superior to the second film (which, frankly, is too easy for ANY writer with more than a double digit IQ), but was even better than the first. It was more faithful in tone to the original series and, conversely, felt like it was actually traveling down its own path. Yes, there was the been-there-done-that cliche of YET ANOTHER turncoat agent, but I actually felt there was some real danger for our characters. And the vatican scene? Masterfully done, sir!
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Okay. Mr. Orci, I apoligize for referring to you as a hack earlier. Thank you for answering my questions. I'm just wondering one more thing...when Leonard Nimoy was asked to direct Star Trek Generations, he wanted to make some minor script changes and was told that he could not (and opted not to return). Did Nimoy suggest any changes for this script? If so, were those changes incorporated?
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Question for you: why didn't you guys go with an energy crisis theme for transformers? Just curious--seemed like it was a big part of the cartoon, and it's once again topical.
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the character of the sociopathic arms dealer and his mysterious rabbits foot was a very nice touch and one of the best macguffins I've seen in quite a while.
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as far as a new crew, i understand your instinct, but it felt to us as thought since the original series, every single incarnation had already been a new crew -- the next, next, next, next generation. It feels fresher to us to go back to the source, which has not been done. But again, doing a new crew is also a valid way to go.
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We talked about an energy crisis. Some felt it was too topical.
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Orci Cybertron DID have cars. I hope you realize this. They just transform into the vehicles for quick transportation and battle.<p> I think if you realized this from the beginning Bay might have realized that the CARS on earth should have been portrayed as Robots that turned into machines that looked a lot like cars as opposed to Cars that turned into things that look a lot like robots (transformers)....
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They used larger vehicles for transportation of entire units. It's not an absurd concept...as much as you might like to think it is.
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Ok, not sure that makes a lot of sense to me, but thanks, Bob!
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Well, I'm off to bed seeing as it's 3am over here in England and I'm employed. <p>I hope Stallone comes on AICN again and does a TB with us. It's kinda fun talking to people in the industry rather than everyone just abusing one another.
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The only problem with that is we, the audience, know nothing will happen to any of the original crew. There's no real threat to them, at least that's how I view it.
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:-) Didn't want you to go to bed without the normal abuse....
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Considering that the idea to do Starfleet Academy with younger versions of the TOS crew has been around since the late eighties, certainly before Bob's career was even sarted, and that Paramount is TELLING Abram and his cast of writers that this film is to be Starfleet Academy, Orci had to write Star Trek the way he did. I agree with you, a new crew idea is best, but Paramount is filled with a bunch of lugheads when it comes to the Star Trek franchise, and this is no different an example.
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and after the recent crap that they've thrown up to the screen, I have my doubts.
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Area 51 enterprise construction, playing up Kirk's horndog nature, the controversy over the Kobeyahi Maru will all go into making this a fresh take on Trek. Which is what Trek needs to most.
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Until then color me not caring so much
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Why didn't the Decepticons just , um... BUY THE GLASSES ON EBAY? Couldn't Megatron get a credit card?
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Hey, that wasn't very nice!
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Sorry. Tiredness.
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I've been riding the man hard for his horrible Transformers script, his lackluster Island treatment, and have alluded to his inferior-to-the first Zoro script. Hell, I went further and told him that he was a rather lazy writer who was too quick-on-the-draw when it came to cliche and contrivence. Believe me when I say I didnt mince words. <p>True, I did congratulate him on MI:3, but then, I felt he deserved it.
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Lets just discuss all the ways in which its script was horribly written. For instance,when Megatron transforms and tells Starscream "You've failed me yet again"...to what was he refering? Up to that point,the Decepticons had received zero character development and no dialogue to speak of. How could Starscream have failed anybody when he wasnt even in the movie? Next up for discussion...Jazz was the first and only Autobot to be destroyed. He was also the blackest. Does this mean Kurtz and Orci are racist???
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yet another reason why the whole glasses macguffin was just so very contrvied. And the fact that he cant differentiate between the logic of grandpa taking a suveneir with having a map etched into his glasses speaks volumes. I'm not saying my idea is great, but I am saying that it is far more servicable for everyone considered then Raiders of the Lost Spectacles. <p>Sheesh, what an undignified and horribly anticlimatic macguffin. Why dont we have Indiana Jones hunt for an old friend's class ring that has the map to the Ark Of The Covenant as opposed to, you know, the ark. Wouldn't that be so much better?
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At what point did Bob think it was cute or funny for his black robot to say, "what's kickin, little bitches?" I mean, really...
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we could spend all night listing all the tired cliches that exists in this man's scripts! Even his best one, which I think everyone agrees to be MI:3, is chalk-full of them. Whomever said it earlier about this man representing the cliche-ridden, shallowly uncreative side of hollywood film-making hit the nail on the head, I think.
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WOW watch the Transformers movie and when Optimus Prime dies... if you give a shit about Prime, you STILL choke up a bit. How am I supposed to choke up when Prime is holding Jazz in two pieces while reading his eulogy...then just rhows the pieces on the ground afterwards?
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who are taking this man to task for his script "contributions." I agree, he's a big man for actually subjecting himself to a harsh dose of criticism, but the fact remains that this man pushes out some of the most tired drek I've seen in any one man's body of work this side of Ed Wood.<p>Oh, he has his reasons, as he is wont to point out. To paraphrase, "it's the studio pressure," or its "well, I was just called in to script doctor," or the classic, "nobody is perfect." The problem here lies in this man's abilities. So far, this man seems to stick to sequels, prequels, and two Bay films, and what does he have to show for it? At what point can he point to a singular idea as his own? A genuine plot device that really hasn't been tried in at least recent memory? Where is the originality? That is why he is labled a hack and a representative of the all-too obvious problem in Hollywood. Though he is obviously successful, the fact remains that there is an elephant in this man's living room and its name is Hackneyed.
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Hey Squint...MY unamed source says you are completely wrong. In fact MY unamed source has traveled into the future, actually seen the movie and as it turns out JJ Abrams directing is a FRONT!! Q Tarentino directed it and it is a remake of MIRROR MIRROR!!! LOTS of action and gore with phasers shredding everone...but with wit and smart dialogue!! I'm sick of all these rumors!! Why on earth would you want to know this. I'll see the movie first then bitch about it. There is no point doing now with only rumors to go by.
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And while its true, Bob Orci has to write a Starfleet Academy script, what does he do? He fills it with a slew of been-there-done-that material and at least a few cliches. <p>We've got time travel (thats right--again), The Guardian of Forever, and the Kobyashi Maru. And for cliches? Well, how about Kirk sleeping with another student to reprogram the Maru scenario? Want another? Well, get this, the Dean of the academy is unhappy with Kirk and wants to get him expelled! Jesus wept, I think that was from Animal House, wasn't it? Hackneyed isn't the word for this tripe...
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Optimus: "Aw Jazz... We'll miss you buddy... Ok, WHO WANTS TO GO TO CHUCKY CHEESE!?!?!"
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exactly. so unfortunate that a CARTOON can evoke more emotional response than a live action film....YIKES
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F'n classic.
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but I'm kinda fascinated by how unimportant the writing in something like transformers seems to be. I mean, assuming for a moment that the script for a movie is essentially the "plans" for the movie, it strikes me as odd that the plans for a $200 million venture would end up being so perfunctory--almost like designing a car by saying "Cars have four wheels, so let's make sure this has four wheels. Also, an engine." Like Orci said above about the glasses, they were added to accomplish the robots' interest in LeBoeuf's character, and other devices might have worked just as well. <P> And yet, the product based on such plans triples the studio's investment. Leads me to think that the really valuable part (meaning, the part that provides a return on the investment) of a movie is the marketing and special effects.
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From Heroes, and we're all set.
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I guess that's two parts.
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But does the deflector rim spin?
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forgot about Seven and T'Pol.
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around development time, news was saturated with oil crisis stuff. So some felt it was too topical at that moment.
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We've had access to much of his original material, notes on the various films, etc. Amazing just from a fan perspective.
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Paramount did not tell us or Abrams what this movie had to be. We're doing the movie we wanted to make.
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...team up to teach the uptight Academy Commandant a lesson by egging his house and tag-teaming his sexually frustrated wife and nymph daughter. Seriously, If you really are Bob Orci, I sort of feel sorry for you, because, no matter what you do, there is a large percentage of the Trek Nerd Herd who will still want to disembowel you, just because you forgot to mention the combination of Kirk's safe, what he ordered in the ship's cafeteria in epsisode 43, or some shit like that. The Nerd Herd is the most fragmented, dysfunctional, impossible to please group in all of fandom. Nicholas Meyer saved the Trek film franchise, personally, three times, and even he is reviled by a large percentage of those sad virgins, simply because his views were too "militaristic" and "dismissive of canon". Of course, if they ever crawled out of their basements and actually saw him somewhere in the real world, they'd line up to fellate him. They just all know better, when they're in front of their keyboards. I would recommend that you take Mr. Meyer's advice: "FUCK canon, I'll make the film *I* want to see." That is always the best approach. Plus, that type of attitude typically encourages multiple outbreaks of apoplectic rage from fanatical "Trekkie-ers", or whatever the hell they call themselves. And, that's always fun to watch. If you're not Bob Orci, I still feel sorry for Bob Orci. p.s. I promise to see this movie twice (with a real, live girl both times) if JJ tells Shat to go fuck himself. Three times if the new Enterprise looks like a flying Winnebago with flames.
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They should have a film about the hyper-futuristic star fleet in the 2900's, you know, the one alluded to in Voyager and Enterprise. Actually, as I recall, there looks to be a lot of purple in the future. The evolved borg were purple, the star fleet uniforms of the time-traveling people were purple, everything will be purple. Maybe the galaxy of 2900 is ruled by a mutant clone of Prince.
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So, the fact that the new film is the same sort of concept proposed by Paramount execs in the late eighties, early nineties, and before and after EVERY star trek film is just one big coinky-dink, huh?
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Just because you hate the decisions we made about Transformers doesn't mean we don't care about Transformers. We just came to different conclusions than you would've. It is possible for two fans of the same property to come up with different things. Yes, i am aware Optimus was to some degree based on Wayne. However, John Wayne was not a sentient alien robot attempting to communicate with human adolescents using whatever he could pick up from our culture off the world wide web.
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anything?
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The glasses are actually the equivalent of the head piece to the staff of Ra (a map) and the Allspark is the ark.
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Yeah, I guess I can see that, but I still think that having the robots' conflict be primarily over energy works very well as a reason for them to be on Earth, and goes a long way towards both differentiating the two factions--bad guys just take the energy they want/need, and good guys try to stop them without stealing what they, in turn, want/need. Which makes the good guys underdogs (as they are disadvantaged by their goodness) and sets up an avenue for human characters to work with them. But that's just me, and I don't work in movies. <P> Anyway, Boborci, if you are the real Bob Orci, it's very decent of you to come here and lift the curtain a bit w/r/t the projects you've been on. And even if you aren't the real Bob Orci (one never can tell on these here internets), you're entertaining. Thanks!
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Yes, it is possible for two fans to come up with two different conclusions, but for some reason, you have the knack for picking the WORST conclusion on every decision. The only saving grace on Transformers was the effects. I have yet to read one line of congratulations in reguards to the script. And no, snickers do not count.
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that the glasses were in the same vein of grandeur as the all spark. You've got this huge mystical cube and the secret to find it is...bifocals? As I stated earlier, this is equivelant to Indiana Jones having to find a class ring to search for the Arc.
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no offense taken -- it's a common misconception that the script is unimportant. However, everything you liked or hated was in the script. We know going into Transformers that even in success, we'd get blamed and attacked for making a toy commercial. I've noticed that history has been rewritten and now everyone says what an obvious money making machine Transformers was, even though no one wanted to touch it and everyone thought it was going to fail horribly.
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that this is an origin story? And that the academy stuff is just a small portion of what we'll see.
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But we consider ourselves lucky to get this turn at bat. You're right that we can't please everyone, and you're not the first to wonder if we're masochists for taking on projects that come with automatic an "screw you" from a certain percentage of folk. We enjoy the challenge, and hopefully, we learn more every time.
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The only similarity I'm aware of is that it is the original crew. We've never been exposed to whatever their plans in the 80's were. If they wanted to do something else that we didn't want to do, then we wouldn't be on this project. I've noticed another interesting thing -- many want to blame the writer for everything but can't believe they have the autonomy do decide anything. Can't have it both ways.
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I noticed that, too--there were a lot of people snickering in the audience when I saw that first teaser for the movie, but reactions to trailers later on seemed a lot more positive. <P> Anyway, on the importance of a script--could you give a semi-concrete example of some piece of scripting that you guys abandoned/avoided would have negatively impacted the movie? I think that would be helpful (for me at least) in understanding the role you writers play in something like transformers.
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Why was that, exactly? You are right, of course, because as far back as I can recall concerning this "franchise," most everyone thought it would be a joke (I'm talking before anyone read the script). Maybe my perceptions are biased because I liked it whenever I was watching it with my kids, but it always seemed to me that it would really work (assuming effects could pull i off). I mean, it didnt seem any crazier than cloned dinosaurs or 9 guys and a ring. Yeah, it was based on some toys and such, but is that any different from other films based on tv shows?
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Read the Moriarty review from this very sight of Transformers and you'll get a little bit of insight into the bias that exists against screenwriters in general. Some samples from his review: "It’s good. And that’s not saying “there are good parts in it,” either. I think as a movie, it knows exactly what it’s doing, it does it well, and it manages to avoid the mistakes that a lot of similar recent movies have made. This is not INDEPENDENCE DAY. This is not GODZILLA. I think this movie can only be a good thing for the world of TRANSFORMERS. I think this movie makes it a much larger cultural icon than it’s ever been before. This is not a toy commercial... and don’t get me wrong... it’s not a film, either. It’s a movie. A really, really fun movie." "I’m fairly sure that’s going to be the case here, too. TRANSFORMERS is going to play really well to most audiences, and I expect there will be many people who suddenly find themselves excited about the franchise, ready to see another one. I also think that the one group of people who will be least satisfied will be the hardcore ‘80s fanboys. And I’m not bagging them for the way they’ll feel, either. It’s just that this is not that cartoon. They are totally different, with different characterizations, different dramatic arcs, different mythology at play. And, no, I’m not a proponent of “turn your brain off and you’ll enjoy it” as a way of approaching films. Never have been. I don’t believe in that at all. I don’t have guilty pleasures. I don’t think films are “so bad they’re good.” When I recommend a film, it’s because I genuinely think it delivers on its promise, and in the case of TRANSFORMERS, I think Michael Bay has finally found a perfect fit for his sensibilities. He’s made his most entertaining film, aided in large part by his cast, and I’m confident that audiences are going to go back to this one several times, all summer long, because they’re going to need to see it more than once to fully absorb. it’s certainly the best sci-fi action movie in a while. It’s outrageous, but it has a real sense of wonder, one of the things that’s missing from so much of the big CGI lightshows released these days. I may be impressed by FX work in many films, but not many people feel comfortable slowing things down for that moment of “Holy shit” awe anymore. It’s one of the tricks to getting this sort of thing right, and so is tone. TRANSFORMERS plays rough, but it keeps things just light enough. I think if they err, they err on the side of comedy, but enough of the movie is genuinely funny that I can appreciate the choice. "There are so many other performances and choices that do work. Kevin Dunn and Julie White play the parents of Sam (LaBeouf), and they come up with gold pretty much every time the film relies on them as comic relief, White in particular. John Turturro takes a fairly standard role as “the government agent” and invests it with a sort of quiet lunacy. Even Bernie Mac and Anthony Anderson take stock comic relief roles on the page and invest them with just the right energy to make them play. Just take that first scene as an example, where Blackout lands on the military base in Qatar, transforms from a helicopter to a giant fucking robot, and then starts marching around kicking unholy ass while looking for the base’s server. The scene’s got everything it should have: a sense of scale, of danger... It’s not just “Bayhem,” as one of the reader reviews the other day said. Instead, there’s a purpose to the sequence, and it’s not just excess for the sake of it. I’m not sure what happened... maybe Spielberg had some influence... , or maybe it was the material." AND SO AFTER ALL THAT PRAISE ABOUT THE CHARACTERS, HUMOR, SMART CHOICES WITH THE MYTHOLOGY AND THE PARADIGM OF THE MOVIE ITSELF, WHAT IS OUR MENTION? "I wish the script by Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman were a little more focused and quick-witted."
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many at the studio did not want to have the Transformers TALK AT ALL. It's a fight we had to have. In fact, we had to slightly develop the movie structurally such that in the event that the studio didn't budge, we'd still have a movie. Once they started seeing it come together from a story POV, thy became more comfortable that we could get away with it.
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I can't answer for others, but my perception is that its sort of a group effort, especially when talking about a tent-pole film like the upcomming Star Trek or Transformers. Its not like you're a novelist, where only a few editors are giving you critques. To me, it seems as though you have to deal with producers, a director, and of course, the whims of actors, and so my perception is that its something of a group effort. <p>That said, when we view the other films you've written, there does seem to be a pattern here. Your films seem to exhibet more cliches than most other films, more contrivences than others, and, frankly, less defined characterization as well. Legend of Zoro, The Island, Transformers, and MI:3 contained a LOT of cliches and worn-out plot points. Yes, MI:3 was saved due to a more livlier plot and better acting, but you still threw in the same type of villain that was used in the first two movies--a defective agent! The refusal to show what was in the rabbit's foot was a neat idea, but it, too wasn't exactly original: it was used in Ronin not 7 years ago. <p>Your other films, however, just get bogged down by too much cliche and really strain the credibility beyond the breaking point.
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if the "guranteed" fan base of Transformers had been the only ones to sow up, it would not have even paid Bay's salary.
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Hoover damn was built around the cube because it could not be moved. When Megatron was found, he was taken to hoover dam. The map of the cube indicated hoover dam. Plot hole in your mind.
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How I'd love to answer your smart question.
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I'm sorry, but your script was just all over the place. Let me put it to you this way, when your own plot looses focus and is sidelined by comedic antics by Bernie Mac and that other, rather portly man whose name I'm not even bothering to look up, then you know the plot lacks focus. I'm not saying this to be mean, though I've said a lot of mean things tonight and have acted very rudely, but rather, as an honest criticism. Yes, I'm sure there were reasons for some events happening at the behest of important plotting, and maybe that is the fault of the director more than the writer, but your story had qutie a few holes and lacked a certain level of polish and care. I'm not saying you guys weren't on to something, because in my not-so humble opinion, with a bit of improvement, your script would have really kicked a lot of ass. Its just that for whatever reason, it seemed as though it were put together the night before.
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Really? Wow. What was their logic? This is really interesting--what's something else you had to fight on?
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Megatron is killed by...Sam?<p> Autobots hiding in a backyard while Mom thinks Sam is Masturbating.<p>Bumblebee pees on someone <p>Those goddamned glasses! <p>Seriously, Bob, the script read like something one of my highschool kids would have written.
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I think I can see where you may be heading with this film. I am, as someone else put it, cautiously optomistic. So, I will keep an open mind. You being a trek freak can understand the, how shall I say, fear that the franchise will pander to the "General Audience" and become something less than It could be. I'm also sure that you of all people can understand and appreciate the intellegince of the audience you are speaking to with this project.
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but I think my point is made. Even someone who believes just about every aspect of the movie works shits on the writer.
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first off I wanna say you rock, love your stuff on Alias and Mi3 was the best of the series. I love the interviews you and alex do with creative screen writing podcast. Also I made a post on your imdb that you and alex rock about a year ago and got attacked by the usual angry internet people. you aree an inspiration for young writers, especially in your interviews, they are very informative and great to hear how people broke in. Good luck with Star Trek. Ps. is there anyway you can help me get in the industry? I had to ask. Take care.
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some were afraid it would be too cartoony. Some were afraid it would be too expensive since every second of screentime added up (and it did limit how much we could do. But mainly, they were afraid that nobody would buy it somehow.
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Good... Thanks for showing Kirk as the lying cheat he's always been, but rarely shown. Too many Trekkies prop him up as some sort of god, when he's really just an arrogant horndog who's lied, cheated and screwed his way to the top!<p>Looking forward to the movie! :)
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Sounds like the name of gay porn actor. So before you start knocking someone's creativity, atleast come up with a better name that doesn't signify your preference for immasculated rim jobs.
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if I get caught, I'll just deny it was me.
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on having nothing to do with AVP-R.....or did he?
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...was as stupid as the decades of resistance to making non-cheesy superhero films. Before the late 1990's/early 2000's pretty much everyone in Hollywood thought "nerd" properties were instant death. Now look at the last 10 years of superhero film successes (plus LOTR). Many studio heads were (and many still are) old-school types who want to make only serious, non-"kiddy" films. They simply don't understand the MASSIVE potential these properties have. If I recall correctly it was a younger, more "hip" execs at Paramount who had to explain the potential to the old moguls before they finally made a deal with Don Murphy to acquire the TF property? Basically, what some people in this talkback are trying to say is that it really was obvious that Transformers done well with a big budget would make millions (and it was made well, and made tons of money.
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Loved the film, even though Bumblebee allowing Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox to basically make out on his face at the end was kinda creepy...
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Because it was FANTASTIC!!! :D
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Thats the part youre failing to understand, sir. That script was B-A-D. The comedic actors, such as they were, stole attention from a lackluster plot. The effects completely overrode the characterization, and the dialogue was laughable at best. Where exactly did you deserve credit, let alone accolades for your storyline. EVERYONE, save perhaps for your immediate family, walked away from that film without the slightest clue as to what happened or why, only knowing that Optimus sure looked cool (all 10 minutes he was in it).
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Agreed, but thematically consistent with the fact that many have their first sexual experiences in cars!
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What was with the computer hackers? The computer hackers that did nothing and contributed nothing as characters yet still got more screentime in a movie called Transformers than the actual Transformers? That was some great writing right there. I know I went into a movie called Transformers wanting to see Anthony Anderson running around like a big black stereotype.
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Did you whinners complain when a fucking farmboy with remedial jedi skills blew up the death star, without the assistance of his on board computer? No, you fucking cheered. But If Starwars were to come out to today, you fucking haters would tear to pieces. You guys sound like little bitches debating about the uneasy comfort of your tampons.
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Also, how often are you on the Trek set, if at all?
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your failing to acknowledge the point I proved -- avoiding it completely.
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worse, you have the three other beings around the car looking down on the two of them as if to say, "Sam! Sam! Sam!" Again, in a Micheal Bay MTV kinda way, I'm sure it looked neato, but to everyone else it was a bit creepy. And don't even get me started on the masturbating joke. By the way, who is responsible for that uncomfortable moment? Was it you? Bay? The other writer?
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Since I'm an Exec Producer on Trek, I have non-writing responsibilities and I am not barred from set. Kurtzman and I are also producing Shia's next movie after Indy and a pilot for next fall which we have already written.
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Why did a majority of the film involve a squad of soldiers wandering around the desert fighting a decepticon we couldnt even see? Why didnt a movie called Transformers actually involve the Transformers characters instead of a bunch of no-name do nothing army grunts?
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These guys are professional complainers. Trying to appease them is a fruitless endeavor. The Tranformers DVD sales, along with the box-office take is all the vindication you need.
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And CORRECTED your "point." You unfairly believe that you were shit on for what didnt work. The problem is, the only bad points with that film had to deal with the PLOT (ie script). You wrote the damned thing, didn't you? It was you who determined that Sam beat Megatron, wasn't it? It was you who figured that the decepticons, who were too powerful to be beaten by the autobots, were gonna get whacked by a bunch of GI Joes. It was you wrote the insipid Raiders of the Lost Spectacles plot and it was you who inserted masturbation, peeing, and KKK handbook's worth of stereotypes into the script. Exactly how are you being unfairly treated, Bob? Hell, if I one of my kids wrote something like that I would have given them an F.
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I guess because we're humble students of Spielberg, who with movies like Jaws and Close Encounters established that tension/drama can often be more effective with what you don't see. In fact, we pitched Skorpanock as Jaws in the sand. And still, Transformers had 100 times more robot than Jaws had shark.
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I know, but I still learn from their opinions and it's good practice.
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Ok, Bumble Bee. Besides him pissing on things, like my childhood... Why make him a crappy old camero and not the crappy old VW he was supposed to be when you're just gonna have him "upgrade" later? I get the GM deal, but at least for the crappy version they could have made him a bug and made all the crappy car jokes, THEN upgrades to the nice new Camero? Man, now I'm thinking back on that crap fest and getting angrier and angrier... ugh... need sleep now...
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It wasn' funny so much as uncomfortable. I'll still never forget the theater goers' reaction to that one. Everyone was chittering and oohing and ahhing over the transformers tippy toeing through the flower garden when suddenly, everyone went painfully quiet. But hey, thats okay, I guess masturbation and ka ka humor is the best thing for a TF flick, right?
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JAWS and CLOSE ENCOUNTERS were actually good.
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cool of you to provide some inside information. I dunno if you will have/are having anything to do with the tf sequel, but if you do, do me a favor? Please don't have any transformer urinate on a talented and respected actor, even if somebody feels the scene really calls for it. The bumblebee-turturro bit was what prevented me from seeing the movie, and I really don't want to go 0-for-2. <P> In all seriousness, thanks again for answering so many questions here.
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It's more than just about it being funny. It's thematically consistent with what the movie is really about. When a teen gets their first car, it's a gateway to adulthood, freedom, SEXUALITY, etc. Are you telling me 16 year old boys do not touch themselves? For me, that is one of the more genuine scenes of the movie. And did you just say that everyone around you was enjoying the movie?
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Though I think a large part of this has to do with damage control for Star Trek (much as it did with Don Murphy and Transformers), and I do have a sneaking suspicion that Harry's source is closer to the film's description than not, I wish you well with Star Trek. I sincerely hope that your suffering through this board actually does curtain the long drawn-out process and effort that you guys had to go through with Transformers, but I also think it won't do much good. Considering your track record and the penchant for animosity at AICN and Star Trek fandom in general, you are probably looking at a large, uphill slog till next winter. Good luck.
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...and keeping tabs on the day-to-day stuff. Hopefully the strike isn't stopping you from honing this until the very end the way you did with Transformers. I've been having a blast as an extra on this film and I'm hyped as hell for the teaser in front of Cloverfield. The dialogue I've heard so far is wonderful, too.
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DVD EXTRA?
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Thanks for lively input... Happy New Year.
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Well, thank goodness you paid attention to the seedier side of teenage life. Its really kind of a shame you didnt put as much effort into other aspects of the script, like characterization, dialogue, and plotting. Yes sir, the toilet humor is still intact--thats the real demographic. <p>I'm sorry, Bob, but I really do have to get some sleep for tommorrow, and frankly, your blantantly shallow grasp at story crafting is really starting to bug me. After spending the past few hours here, I can honestly say that my sympathy for the WGA in general has eroded to the point of apathy. Have a good night and I wish you well in your career.
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.. having to work with don murphy must be torture.<P>whenever he comes on here as 'phartegodd1' or whatever handle he has, he just can't string an insult together.. cocaine, kids.. cocaine.
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So fuck off, until you can generate more revenue then that SHUT THE FUCK UP:)
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Bitch, Bitch, Bitch. there's more to life then tearing apart a film you didn't like.
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okay?<P>cool.
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Seriously, how can the man defend his script-writing abilities when his resume consists of Transformers, The Island, MI:3, and Legend of Zoro. Sure, MI:3 was pretty good, I find, but there is deffinitely a pattern to this man's abilities, and it just irks me that he now has his hands on yet another franchise and appears to be taking a big fat LCD dump all over it.
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If you don't mind, I would love to ask about JJ's directing style for "Star Trek". Is he sticking with his "shaky cam" or has he toned it down a bit? Also, would you guys consider writing a DS9 movie? I know these questions are less controversial than the others but I would love to know, anyway. Thanks!
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Originally Optimus told Sam to jam the Alspark into the chest of Megatron, but in the flick Prime asks for it and is willing to sacrifice his own life. Which doesn't make a lick of sense given the fact that it would leave Sam just a few feet away from a pissed off Megs, and he would most certainly of taken his anger out on him, and anyone around. <br><br> For someone that was supposed to be a great leader, that was a piss poor decision, especially with several Decepticons still looming about.
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WB Kirk and crew have to fight a giant mutant whale thats attacking San Francisco...the whole thing is filmed via camcorder from the POV of a red shirt. And then at the end,Felicity cries.
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.. I saw :( I think I need a hug.
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That JettL guy from the Indy talkbacks.
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Transfromers did something right. I don't love the movie, I thought it was fun but the range of people who did love it is incredible. the average movie going audience LOVED transformers and as the writer of a blockbuster franchise I think that is the most important audience to capture, not the hardcore fanboys who want the movie done their way, cause if it was it would not be the hit film that it is. the average movie going audience thought transformers was the greatest thing ever. Did I, no I didn't but I had fun watching it and going into seeing this film I wasn't expecting for it to be a Malick or Kubrick film, just a good time at the movies and that's what it was.
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A Tarantino directed "Mirror, Mirror" twisted version, an over the top Mel Brooks style spoof starring Q, or a Kevin Smith Clerks-style "Red Shirts" flick, things like that. Movies that from the beginning say "Hey, this is not standard Trek, it's just in the general universe". Then come back in 10 years and do a really kick-ass, way it was meant-to-be version. Unfortunaly I still think this incarnation has more to do with the "Dukes of Hazzard" remake and "American Pie" than Star Trek. At least Ben Stiller isn't in it...
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a Tarantino Mirror-universe movie about the Borg could be really interesting...
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at least he was up front and honest about who he was. Not like megpen on the Vern AVP-R talkback.
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We know you are smarter than celebrities, writers, etc.. That's why they are famous and you're not. It's all based on personal decisions, obviously. Good job on keeping your intelligence in check and allowing yourself not to be sucked into the Hollywood life. I'm glad you made this decision, because now, you can come here and criticize other people's creations and inventions. I mean after all, all of your accusations and assumptions can't be based on jealousy, right?
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Can you make Cybertron POPULATED AGAIN. And with CITIES? I don't want to think it is a dead world. That shit really eats me up. All I really cared about when watching the cartoon was when we would get to go back to Cybertron and learn more about what was happening there and the history of the characters there and how they lived.... They did it so fucking well in the cartoon. The designs and alt-modes were even pretty damn cool on cybertron. OK, granted the robots had the same design as the robot modes on earth (just an animatoin flub, whatever it was a kids show).... but the vehicle modes were alien. It made such sense. Please somehow bring Cybertron back to what it was.<p>Not some dead rock world. A planet that had layers upon layers of metal and mechanical structures. That at its very core was Vector Sigma, the computer which brought life to all Transformers. "Before Cybertron was, I WAS". That shit was cool. Let's meet characters like Alpha Trion (Prime's creator) Please, NO MORE ALLSPARK CHARACTERS. Maybe the Allspark could just be a fragment of Vector Sigma. But no more Allspark life, blech.. These characters born from the allspark instantly have no soul. Please drop all of that. Let the Allspark die. As it should. It sucked. For real. <p>When considering the Constructicons and Devastator...look at the storyline from the cartoon and where they came from. Omega Supreme and the Constructicons and their quarrel. It is actually pretty cool as inconsistent as it is, fans have come up with interesting ways of explaining it. We can inform you. Same with Combaticons. They have a backstory that is equally as cool as the Constructicons. I mean these guys were in a Decepticons detention center thats how bad they were.<p> People are gonna want the dinobots too... I liked how they were created in the cartoon because it was something different. They were created on Earth and without an actual "spark" but I think we've had too much of this characters created on the fly garb in the first movie and now to help clean it up we need to go and make sure any character we bring in is a character that has been around for millions of years back on Cybertron.... or maybe they all fled Cybertron and his on another planet..TLuckily in the comic book the Dinobots HAD been around millions of years. We need to feel like there is history to these characters. we need the Autobots to WANT to go back to their homeworld too. Not just want to blend in here on earth cause there lives were meaningless before this place. If we feel like their lives are meaningfull now on earth then who were they before?......well, who cares in that case....
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NO, you don't have to explain all the back stories there. But at least let us feel like there is ROOM for them. At least let us wonder.
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is you don't seem to understand that people would have had fun at this movie even if it was more faithful to the original. more people would be happy. less people would be bitching. that is all. we're complaining about issues with the storytelling as well as the G1 cannon. nothing that would have made the movie any worse.
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and that couldn't make the film any worse???? Think about that one for a second.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 2:12 a.m. CST
Wow, I get outa bed to get a drink of water and you folks are st
by Boborci
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Jesus fucking Christ you better be joking.
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I enjoyed TRANSFORMERS for the mindless madness it was, despite hating Michael Bay and his fixation on certain bits of toilet humor. I mean come on - it's TRANSFORMERS. Of course the plucky young boy will beat Megatron! There was a plucky young boy on the show too! I thought it was fun as hell. Stupid at bits but fun. And yet I also loved Antonioni's The Passenger, so what does that say about me? Maybe that I'm mentally ill, who knows. Anyway, Orci- I wish you luck with Trek. I am sketchy on Abrams whose work I think often falls apart in execution, but I think Trek needs all the new blood and voices it can get and I really want this one to work. I think you guys can do that. Just please tell me Tyler Perry is not in the movie trying to convince us he loves pussy.
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this may be really late but ur absolutely wrong and it proves u really wasted ur 12 dollars, if that was u that said that...or didnt really see the movie.......the decepticons WERE NOT mostly DESTROYED by HUMANS.......only blackout....brawl was done in by bumblebee, bonecrusher by optimus, megatron by the allspark, hes not dead...frenzy chopped his own head off.....starscream, barricade, scorponok all got away......the transformers movie was amazing, it didnt need to be done better, it was perfect...just not to whiny losers.....700 million is proof enuf, suck it fanboys.....and jazz is dead........i know its a trek talkback, but its gonna suck, kirk is dead, should never go back and revisit that .... but it makes all the fanboys that masturbate over kirk, kirk, kirk happy
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When throwing ideas out there for transformers who’s fucking idea was it to make it a film about the human interaction with the robots when it should have been all about the machines and their story coming to earth or something based around the original with a kick ass 80’s soundtrack. PS Respect for coming out and defending your work against us fickle bunch
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ur sounding stoopid with tarded spelling and aint doin the Transformerz movie any credit by showing its got fans dat type like dat. enuf of that shit. Oh, and silk boxers prove you're a tool, unless you're Sly Stallone or something.
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cybertron isn't fucking real.<P>grow up.
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I never saw TRANSFORMERS but I went out and bought it. I had a perception of Mr. Orci based on Hollywood in general as well as all the prevailing reviews around here. He showed up here and took the blows and didn't hit back, he stayed on target and showed respect and class towards those who didn't show it to him. I now what to see his STAR TREK movie as well as TRANSFORMERS and MI3. Orci is a good man and anyone not showing him the proper respect for showing up here and patiently answering your questions, as well as ignoring your insults, should really think about what it took to show up here and deal with us. Let go your hate. Bob Orci is trying to say that he's one of us.
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When he's proven he's worth praise, tb'kers won't hesitate to suck his dick. Otherwise get ready for the ass ramming. Aicn's supposed to be the rebel, not another site dedicated to being hollywood's little bitch... I guess it was inevitable. The whole internet's fucked up these days. You can't trust anybody anymore. *looks around suspiciously*
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Don't leave me hangin!
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Dawson's Trek, or 9021Enterprise, and all the male crew members will sport that intentionally messed-up bedhead look with the little moussed metrohorn up front, and all the females will be like, "Oh muh GAWD! My FEELINGS!!" The way to allay my fears is to have people get murdered within the first ten minutes, turn it into a bit of Veerhoeven's Starship Troopers.
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Shia Defeated Megatron....blew hium up. WHATEVER, yeah he will probably come back. But a HUMAN saved the day. Not the Autobots who should have been the real heroes.
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I liked the explainations given in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kobayashi_Maru_%28novel%29 on how Kirk and Scotty got around the test. No talk of sexual exploits, after 3 failed attempts Kirk simply reprogramed the simulation so when the Klingons learned it was 'THE James Kirk' they ran away!
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It should of been a real warrior, wizard,etc. But instead we get this pussy ass hobbit defating the greatest empire the fantasy world has known. That's bullshit Toilken should never be able write again. /Bruticus logic off
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Hopefully Fox Searchlight has nothing to do with it (which I am pretty sure it doesn't). Otherwise it'll go the way of all awesome sci-fi movies that spwan of Satan has gotten a hold of. I still say the worlds greatest Canadian is going to be in this, if so the JJ will prove his worth by convincing Danny Crane to hold his tonge. Speaking of Crane, where this Maltz vs. Kirk I've made so much up about going to happen on that show!!!
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and has been for along time. It doesnt suprise me this script is lousy. I know everyone on the planet is a Lost douche, but JJ is a hack. Pure and simple.Hes never done anything thats impressed me. I have ZERO interest in seeing this and no one was a bigger ST fan than me 70s-90s.Enterpise built at Area 51??? WTF?? Yea sure, just piss all over established history. Fuck this movie.
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in the third ACT!And no FUCKING uniforms,they look gay!And KIRK should wrestle a POLARBEAR!And the ENTERPRISE should not FLY,thats gay too!Thats the way to go Mr.ORCI!
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i'd imagine the choice for THIS was made for the same reason that the humans discovered Megatron and reverse engineered him to create all the technology that came from the US.<p>That reason? My first guess would be that Orci and company believe that they need to plug in an established known artifact (Area 51) to make people connect with the story or the enterprise more.<p> NO Orci. No..... It is TOO obvious. And just makes the whole thing seem silly. If you are calling it Area 51. I'd just go right ahead and erase that name when the writers strike is over just to save your ass a bit from a BUTTLOAD of criticism. Once again good form in coming and listening here. But make it worth something. Do something about a potential mess.
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Just about the entire Internet is going on about how badly embarrassed AICN is right now by posting a complete fabrication as a trusted source and being shot down by the scriptwriter yet no one has yet retracted the story. Whats the deal Quint cant admit that someone suckered you yet and just give up and admit you made a mistake?
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Generations was good...Contact was GREAT! Nemesis and the one with Salieri sucked.
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I'm all for anything disproving this massively shitty treatment of the trek universe.
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In this very thread. Atleast I think i'm not sure what he was getting at:<p> Can someone translate this for me?<p> """"Area 51<p> by Boborci Jan 5th, 2008 03:27:17 PM<p> Let's see. Area 51 is a place where we supposedly keep aliens and spacecraft A SECRET. In Star Trek, earth KNOWS there are spaceships and aliens. You might've even heard of one of them. His name is Mr. SPOCK. You do the math.""""
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To Area 51? And gives the government plans for a starship? I don't get it. Pretty sure I don't like it either. Any other speculations?
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Hes making FUN of people who beleived area 51 was in the movie.... IE If Area 51 is where we keep secret space stuff... aaaaand there is no such thing as SECRET SPACE STUFF in the future, WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD AREA 51 BE IN THE SKRIPT. Are you that dense to not understand he was making fun of people who though area 51 would even be used.
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http://tinyurl.com/3cmgom basically shoots down everything.
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"Conditioning people not to expect anything but cheating. Don't allow people to dream that a starship captain could be an exemplary individual. Turn everything into a sour joke." Brilliant! Sir (or ma'am), you have neatly encapsulated my opinions of generation x and postmodernism. If we should ever meet I will gladly buy you the beverage of your choice.
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I just got done reading the comments and noticed Orci up there... funnny stuff.
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A note to Bob Orci: This board is primarily inhabited by trolls and troglodyes. It's patently obvious the source was lying, and it was obvious that was the case from the moment the supposed story was posted. If AICN had any credibility -- and even a cursory glance at what others say about it makes it clear it has none -- it would retract the story and admit it was duped by liars. Since the site is entirely non-credible, that'll never happen. In the meantime, by responding to the idiots on this board, you're lowering yourself to their level. I advise you not to respond anymore, as your presence only serves to validate the crap that is AICN. Sites and forums all over the 'Net are making fun of AICN and the fools who actually were stupid enough to believe this cock-and-bull story, so you have nothing to fear--AICN's talk-back forum is NOT representative of either movie-going fans or the audience Trek films reach, so there's no reason for you to have to justify yourself here. This place is a pit of idiocy, and you should not take anything said here seriously. The fact that people actually believed the nonsense in Quint's story should tell you what the average IQ here is. Take the high road--ignore this shit.
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This was the quote from CHUDs article which then got info from Bob from Bob Murphy's message board.... the gist being "He said: No area 51. That makes no sense. The Earth KNOWS there are aliens. What possible meaning could an area 51 have? No Kirk as bad student. We all know he's a genius. No protesters with signs about anything. Yes, there's great action, but we've said that in other interviews."
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before reading your thoughtful, intelligent, and dead-on assessment rassmguy. <p>Or perhaps he'll just ignore your shit as well.
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He seems like kind of a prick. (not as bad as Don Murphy, but rather prickly nonethless). He's not answering any questions. All he asks is for us to keep an open mind. Nor does he deny the story the Quint printed. So what should Quint redact acnything? Sound like Quint's story is legit and Orci is just pissed off at the reception its getting...
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Jan. 7, 2008, 10:57 a.m. CST
Also, there's an awful lot of Orci fawning going on here
by Rickey Henderson
It makes me cringe a bit to read stupid fanboy missives trying to suck up by apologizing for AICN trolls... Stop sucking up kids. The guy ain't Stallone.
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Each and every one of our topsecret airplanes,F-117, B-2,SR-71,F-22,etc, have been tested at the groom lake facility. A myriad of aviation insiders have known and stated this for years. Now since the Goverment is allowed to have a top secret military base, that it states "Does not exist" Eventhough we've seen the pictures with our own eyes, is a foregone conclusion that they would also develop and test their ***Star-ship*** under the impregnable secruity that the Groom Lake facility provides. So it's a much more realistic and plausible approach, then constructing it in space. So please provide some logic and substanance when you choose to critisize someones idea, and fail to convey the reason for your objections. Just saying it sucks isn't good enough.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 11:05 a.m. CST
Here's the logical scientific criticism of that Gany...
by Rickey Henderson
Building a spacecraft in orbit is VASTLY more reasonable because it means when you hit the launch button, it won't need to expend breaking free from Eath's atmosphere. It's much more practical and cost efficient. It's just scientific common sense to build the enterprise in orbit. The Area-51 idea is designed for generation dumbass. Rickey remembers you from those Transformers TBs over a year ago... good to see you're back shilling for Paramount yet again. Keep up the strong work plant!
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He's the writer of a movie that obviously people here care about, care enough to voice objections and suggestions. Welcome to the future, where creators can interact with their audience. Even Orci realizes the potential in that, if he wants to have a long career. <p> Now go make Bobby some lunch, Mrs. Orci.
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In the year 2200 space travel will be cheap and common place. So your idea that it would be cheaper, to construct it in space is assinine. Space is a hazardous work enviorment. So it would be much safer, and cost effective to construct it on earth, under strict security.
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Voyager...Nemesis...Enterprise...AND now this horrible re-make. End it. Please. Come back in 20 years.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 11:40 a.m. CST
Either Make a Proper DS9 Movie...or Bury trek for 20 years.
by uss cygnus
Time Travel has KILLED Star Trek, as did alternate timelines with deus ex machina reset buttons. Abrams is putting the final bullet in the body. So sad. They won't touch DS9...which had so much movie potential, and they pretend like it doesn't exist. Damn them all to movie hell.
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And inorder for him to do that he's going to have to modernize the franchise. This movie is going to be a monumental sucsess at the box office, and reinvigorate this franchise. Most people are turned off by Star Trek due to the oddities that encompasses it's cult following. Star Trek never had the coolness factor that Starwars did. And JJ is here to change that. And quite frankly it's about damm time.
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... Constructing a gigantic starship on earth only poses the problem of how to get it into space once it's finished. It's much more cost-effective to send the components up individually and do the final construction in space. Especially if you have a huge "space drydock" platform (also constructed in space) from which to do the construction. Christ, don't any of you morons watch the friggin' Discovery or National Geo channels? Ever heard of NASA? Or are you only interested in fake space science?
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Jan. 7, 2008, 12:05 p.m. CST
Sweet fucking christ shut up Ganymede you rotten plant
by Rickey Henderson
Look, it's simple fucking physics: in order to break free of Earth's atmosphere, a tremendous amount of energy is required. A launch from orbit requires much less energy. You're seriously batshit crazy if you think we won't be building space vessels in outer space in a the future.<br> <br> But what's more important that the scientific truth that you're ignoring that that Orsi or whatever the fuck that hack's name is appparently has no problem tossing away Star Trek canon. The Enterprise being built in Area 51 is just ridiculous, it's offensive and dumb to anyone who's watched just a few episodes of any of the Trek shows. Stop talking about JJ reviving a "stale franchise." The Trek universe is already light years ahead of anything these unoriginal writers could dream up. Area fucking 51? Time travelling Romulans? Are you goddamned shitting me? Where's the exploration and sense of adventure that made this series so much fun to watch?
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Roddenberry's Star Trek was about educating and enlightening people with ideas grounded in the reality of the time. Our reality, and Orci acknowledged this, is that we are facing an energy crisis. Strike that - we are IN an energy crisis. If he were to honor Roddenberry they'd tackle this subject head-on and enlighten a new and future generation. It could spark some debate about energy sources and consumption. It could make Star Trek relevant again. Don't ignore the shit and hope it goes away. <p> Gany, you're sounding like a raving loon. Imagine the fuel it would take to launch a destroyer into space. Take a gander at Nasa's own website and look up space station construction. The shit is built in space for all the reasons given to you already. You can argue that Star Trek is fictional and in that world, there's an abundant energy source. But then that just means Abrams is taking the easy way out and making Star Trek just another brainless movie. Something it should not be.<p> Throughout the series and movies, Star Trek always looked upon the past as filled with mistakes that, somewhere in the future, Mankind acknowledged and corrected. Well, we should make it that time. Start acknowledging flaws and start correcting them.
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like i posted here, he flat out says that every part of Quint's post was not true, Kirk is not a bad boy (that was Shatners Academy book that painted Kirk like that and Spock as a moron) The 1701 is not launched from Area 51, and there are no protesters or anything. The only thing he didnt deny was the Spock handoff, which makes sense because it was the only piece of info likely to be true based on what we know is shooting right now. What likely happened was this "reliable source" likely caught them shooting this scene, taked on the plotline of Shatners craptasticular book, and sent it to Quint who will post ANYTHING no matter how false it is.
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The cost to operate, maintian, and supply a orbital work station, capable of building a starship would be astronomical in the comparssion to the cost of building it on earth. So fuck you and the pseudo science you're trying to propagate here. The average movie goer doesn't know what fucking romulan is you fucking nerd. I want you to walk up to one of your friends at work. And ask them do they know what a fucking romulan is! So gives a fuck if they can time travel or not. This is the fanyboyism that has stagnated Star Trek. Thank god they're listening to dumb fucks like you anymore. Bitch.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 12:29 p.m. CST
Alright, good to know... but then what's with Gany?
by Rickey Henderson
Why the hell is that moonbat defending the Area-51 idea if it's been shot down? I'm still convinced that Gany works for Paramount by the way. The guy talked the same way about Transformers when that was coming out. About reinvigorating a dying franchise or whatever. Fair warning. Just saying...
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All of the research and construction of the hyperdrive etc, will be done on EARTH! I wouldn't rule out them shipping pre-cronstructed parts to the lunar base, to assemble the air craft. But all of the research and development will be done on earth. Any ship capable on interstellar travel. Will not be in the least bit concearened of breaking earths gravity.
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I'd be willing to bet that most casual movie goers do know what a fucking Romulan is. Also, classifying me as a Trekkie is completely wrong. I've seen serveral episodes of TNG and DS9, and a handful of the films. And that's it cupcake. I don't know a tribble from a goddamned hole in the ground, but what I do know is that if what you're saying is true about this Area 51 garbage or a new "updated" trek, then paramount is fucking up severely. And you can tell whoever it is that waters you that. Star Trek is meant to be fun. It's essentially Master & Commander in outer space. It's about a crew of folks hopping in a space ship, landing on strange new planets, and then proceeding to either fuck or kill that planet's denizens. And there's a little 1960's talk of UN style peace and harmony thrown in there for good measure. And you know what? All that makes for a pretty fucking good time at the movies. None of the Mountain Dew Generation Extreme dumbass nonsense that you loved so much in Transformers. If done properly, this movie could be a whole hell of a lot better than the shit you're trying to sell around here Gany.
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My point is it isn't out of the realm of possibility have the ship built in A-51. So if the decide to use it, they can definately make it work. If they don't. You can move on to something else you hate.
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until i see the movie
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Dude came in and owned AICN. Wish I would have seen this talkback earlier. Instead of shitting on Transformers why not try go get some more Trek info? Goddam mouth breathers. In case Orci comes back, let me say, keep doing what you're doing. So long the checks still keep coming in who gives a shit. I wish I had the trouble of writing a movie that pissed off jackass fanboys. And to be honest, the "my bad" part really did suck balls.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST
HECKLES - YOU'RE RIGHT, BOB ORCI CAMED AND OWNED SOMETHING FIERC
by BringingSexyBack
If that's what you want to believe. Now he can go back to the warm blanket that is trekmovie.com and feel the love of undiscriminating and unquestioning fans.
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I think if I had to express my frustration about Transformers it would be that the cartoon featured the Transformers with humans playing supporting roles. Your movie featured the humans with Transformers playing supporting roles.<p> It's disappointing that the studio didn't want them to talk because of what I said above. We super geek fans are fans of Transformers because of the robot characters. They were awesome and the mythology was awesome. Focusing on human beings took the focus away from the thing that makes Transformers unique. <p>
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That's how you spell it in the Federation.
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In Trek is as common and as esay as and airplane taking off right? Any arguments about building in orbit would be relevant if they had to launch them like rockets but i recall ships in trek taking off and landing pretty easily.<br><br>Not that it matters since it's a fucking sci-fi movie and where they build their fucking spaceships is neither here nor there. Calm the fuck down.
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Bob Orci also fellates donkeys. True story.
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Now lets get into that. You guys bow down and suck the dick of a 65 year old steriod infused action hero. Stallone to these fucktards is the epitomy of a film maker. So greath, that he has to rely on overdone franchises that drove him into obscurity many decades ago. So that goes to show you what kind of lunacy we're dealing with here on AICN.
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Transformers the movie was the so fucking lame it made me ill. And now the same fuck-tards that wrote that are going to piss all over OTS Trek. Thanks you bastards.
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The spirit of the show is space exploration: seeking out new world. Boldly going where blah blah blah... Get the point? I want some majesty and wonder in my Trek film. Not jump cuts, a camera that won't stand still, and some bullshit plot about time traveling Romulans.
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Everyone here seems to be selective when it comes to critisisms. They allways regurgitate how un-original and repetitive something is. And then come to praise a actor/director that embodies the same qualities they hate. Yack, atleast you put thought behind your critisims. But these other assholes who allways play the plant card when I point out their pettiness, are the ones I'm directing my vitriol at, not stallone per se.
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Thank you for re-inforcing that point. Where the ship is constructed is pretty irrelevant. Even if they decided to use A-51 as the staging point. Atleast the auidience will feel more of a connection, to the ship, and the movie it self.
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Dude, first off shut the fuck up. Next, don't call Trek fans nerds and say we're part of a cult. You fucking piece of garbage. Why after all the movies and TV shows is it now ok to snub 40 years worth of cannon? You know what... IT'S NOT! If the writers of this new trek film think it's cool to fuck with something that means so much to generations of fans, then they are in for a big surpise. Yeah this movie might rule, but if it turns it's back on what we know and love then expect it to sink like a stone after it's opening weekend. Why don't ou go reimagin my last shit you hollywood pukes and leave the cool stuff alone. I would rather have no more Trek then MTV Trek. And stop saying we're freaking out. What would all the sports fans do if the NFL or NBA said, "oh we're just going to change the rules and all the teams. You know that game you've loved your life, well fuck it." You know what all the jocks would say? FUCK YOU! Bet you wouldn't call them nerds or cult memebers for that would you?
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hey, sorry but I felt the need to point it out. Earlier you reffered to Megan Fox's char taking a look under the hood of Bumblebee in the Transformers movie. She described the engine as "nice" and pointed out that it is equipped with a double-pumper carburator. This is in fact completely wrong. The engine displayed on screen was a small block engine with an "8-barrel" Injection manifold. A double pumper carburator is generally produced by Holley or Demon... its usually a 750cfm 4 bbl configuration that sits on top and in the middle of the intake manifold. So to support / agree / dis-agree with you, Megan Fox's character actually had no idea what she was talking about. I'm a big fan of all things automotive and it really bugs me when there is ri-cock-ulous mis-information.
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I was never a HUGE fan of the ST franchise but I've seen all of them and I hope this ones good.
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And I would like to add they failed miserably. And yes, you devoted trekkies are fucking nerds. The average movie goer isn't going to give flying fuck if a Romulan can time travel or not. This movie isn't being made for Trekkies. More of you showed up to the Startrek conventions, dressed in your poorly made costumes, then you did at the theaters. So fuck off. Your time has passed. Time for a new take on this franchise. If you want cannon, watch the thousands of shows that have been produced already. This a remake, not a rehash. Learn the difference.
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Here, here.<p> Hey Yackster wassah.
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Leonard Nimoy: When I first read the script...which was about three months ago. I immediately contacted J.J. and said "I think it is terrific...I think you guys have done a wonderful job. There is still work to be done, but it is very clear that you and your writers know what you are doing and you know how to do this movie and know what it should be about....and I am very interested.".. You read that you sumbitches. I have more faith in Nimoy's Judgement, then any of you professinal complainers that saturate these TB's.
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1 year ago you were here saying the same exact thing about Transformers. How the loyal fans who remember the 80's cartoon were geeks/nerds/whatever who needed to be ignored. Yeah, smart move there insulting the people who actually care about a franchise and know something about it's rich history. So tell us, how will this new take on a classic franchise revitalize it? What talking points did Paramount feed you today? Does Kirk skateboard on the saucer of the Enterprise? Or perhaps a tribble urinates on Spock for comedic effect?
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I am a fucking Transfromers geek, and I'm very proud of it. I have a deep knowlege of TF universe too. But I didn't throw that in everyone faces to claim superiortiy over thier opinions. And I'm not here to aruge Transformers one anymore. You haters have already lost that debate. The only ones who hate it are you, a small, insignificant minority.
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Nothing but more nails into the coffin. Canon doesn't translate into a good movie. If you don't believe me, remember the prequels. All of the canon in the world made no difference. JJ is only making minor tweeks to the story and characters, because the present course the franchise was charting failed generate ANY interest outside of it's core fanbase. That's why the Trekkies need to compromise, and realise their way hasn't worked in 25+ years.
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So, are you going to change the title? Footage NOT seen. Script NOT read. Bunch of lies and half-truths. I'd expect nothing less from this mess of a site.
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one thing, but canon isn't as important. Let's take the Area 51 idea (which apparently won't be in the movie anyway), it's not dumb because it conflicts with canon, it's dumb because it doesn't make a lot of sense. It seems shoehorned into the film. Trek has spanned forty some years, and there are so many holes within the mythos anyway that I'm not too worried about a few more. I'll sacrifice the film being consistent with something Scotty said five minutes into the third show of the second season for a quality movie any day.
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"Professional complainers" - just about sums it up. You'd think have the TBers on this site were getting paid per word and exclamation point. (Cash bonuses for seriously long rants and references to "canon".)
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You mean 40 years of supposed canon don't you? There are loads of things from the TOS that was completely debunked or fucked with in every iteration after that. Top it off, shouldn't you all not be calling anything after TNG canon since thats when it really started going pear shaped and pretty much every Trek fan saw Berman as the new anti-christ?<br><br>Trek is sorely in need of a reboot and the only decent trek is the stuff Roddenberry had involvement with up to his death which is why they've actually bothered to involve Kirk and Spock and everyone else without just starting afresh.
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have = half. Sorry, had a meltdown there.
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The ecto-matter from the high five has worn off and I need another fiver to deliver Orsi's essense to M-O-M's aura. This will, theoretically, repair the damage done to Trek's continuum when Roddenberry passed away.
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You have more patience with Gany than he deserves.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 4:07 p.m. CST
These writers are going to get stabbed by a fat kid in a Klingon
by SCYTHEOFLUNA
If this is any indication as to the quality of their work, rest assured some angry kid with a Klingon Dagger is going to exact gruesome revenge if these guys host a comicon panel. And screw JJ Abrams anyway. Joss Whedon is more talented, and he's a worthless hack. I will never forgive him for Alien: Ressurection, and if Abrams screws up Star Trek, he'll be in for a boatload of hatemail too. I'm sick of talentless losers paying thier bills by shitting on every franchise I ever cared about with half researched scripts and ZERO familiarity with the source material. This franchise should be handed off to one of the masters, not this flavour of the month nobody. Lost sucks. Heroes isn't fit to lick the taint of Doctor Who or Battlestar Galactica, and I couldn't give a shit less about MI3 or Cloverfield. I have been a trekkie my ENTIRE life. I can remember watching half scrambled episodes on TV while my Mom held the channel knob with a pair of pliers so we could get reception in the early 80's. I grew up on re-runs of the original, and have enjoyed all of the spin-offs to one degree or another. They've all had some problems, but if a reboot is going to be the next step, it is imperative that they make it as true to the source material as humanly possible. Fucking with Kirk's character is NOT OKAY. Screwing with continuity is not okay, and I would rather see the series DIE a permanent death than have it reborn as a half retarded inbred fuckwit. Get some talented writers and tread cautiously.
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'Sure would be nice if they'd tell you you're about to run out of room in the subject area rather than just cutting off the last few words.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 4:31 p.m. CST
Rodholt if Star Trek sucks, what the fuck are you doing here?
by SCYTHEOFLUNA
Please tell me you aren't one of those people who thinks J.J. Abrams is talented. Anyway, if you're rebooting a franchise, yet have no intention of sticking to the source material, you might as well just change the name too right?. They COULD have changed Bruce Wayne's name to Dirk Diggler in Batman Begins, but that would have been really dumb. What would be the point of making a Star Trek film that has fuck-all to do with the source material? The fact that you have no connection to Star Trek yourself, you'd hardly be the cat to ask it seems. So reboot logic 101, just for your benefit. Usually the need for a franchise reboot indicates that the franchise has gotten off track, so they're starting fresh in the hopes of salvaging a solid concept. That doesn't necesarily mean that plot and character details will always stay the same, but in the case of Star Trek they probably should. Take a show like the original Battlestar Galactica, and you have a whole different story. That show was always more of a cult phenomenon, and didn't last very long, so when they rebooted it they took the things that did work in the original, Cylons, Vipers etc. and reworked the rest into something vastly superior to the original concept. Whether you think Star Trek "sucks" or not, it's been popular for nearly half a century with absolutely no help from you, so changing major plot and character details will only serve to piss people like me off, and trust me, there are millions upon millions of people who like Star Trek even more than I do.
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No matter how irate I may get at times, he understands that it's coming from my passion for movies. Unlike alot of these jerkoffs who accuse me for working for Paramount. That's one of the many reasons he's the voice of reason on these TB's. His amdiration for Signs is the only thing that bugs me about him:)
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He put up with my early venomous rants and it's due to his Gandhiesque tolerance, and his model of virtue and patience, that I've become the person I am today. Bless his heart!
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Hot GIRL!
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Not even Kirk could whip the Baron: http://tinyurl.com/27hy62
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Hey dude. Eat a dick. Yeah those last few ST movies sucked. I won't argue with you about that, but that is no reason to go back to the best ST crew/era and remake it for the retarded Reality show loving masses. I was fucking raised on Sci-fi and OTS 60's trek is one of my earliest TV memories. All I'm saying is I hope with all my heart that they DON'T FUCK IT UP, like they did with Transformers and all the other lame remakes, rehash bullshit that's come out over the last few years. All involved with that Transformers movie should have had their eyes craved out of their fucking heads with a rusty spoon for that shit. Trek means a lot to a lot of people and ganymede3010 insulting those people by calling them nerds and talking shit about convention goers... what a fuck head.You sir a an ignorant asshole. How can you even comment on a ST movie with out having any respect for what came before and the fans that allowed it to continue for so long. FUCK YOU.
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Tits, Phasers and Klingons!!!
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thats what this talkback sounds like
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Build the Enterprise in ROBOCOP's Old Detroit (where they will have advanced from cars to starships in the future) rather than Area 51.
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Going ED-209 on the Klingons!I buy THAT for a dollar!!!
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Jan. 7, 2008, 6:49 p.m. CST
I'm so not interested in this movie I'm not even going to post i
by sonnyfern
.... oops.
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They should hire these guys to give the Transformers treatment to every sagging property in moviedom.... Just imagine Blade Runner: Genesis - Set five years before the original film and documenting the creation of the first humanoid replicant at a secret government facility called Area 51. Aliens Infinity: We find out that the alien lifeforms weren't actually 'aliens' at all. They were biologically designed at a top secret government research facility in Nevada called Area 51. ET 2: Homecoming - The beloved ET returns to Earth to free the fabled Sphere of Goodness, an ancient artifact of his people confiscated by the government and buried under Hoover dam.
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Jan. 7, 2008, 8:07 p.m. CST
does anyone actually READ the posts before making their own stup
by Falcon5768
EVERYTHING IN THE MAIN STORY WAS DEBUNKED! STOP POSTING Area 51 SHIT!
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Where was it debunked?
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already debunked the area 51 thing, in one of his post.
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All that's missing is Mr Nice Gaius. Anyone heard anything from him? Returned to the world of the posting?
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So fuck you too! Show a little faith, and stop being a whinny little bitch.
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I don't mind trashing staid concepts and doing some revolutionizing, but Star Trek is a concept based on optimism and idealism, so it's betrayal and squandering to turn it into another high school hijinks flick. <p> As for the Area 51 idea: uh, yeah, right, JarJar; better than a secret base called Atlantis in the Bermuda Triangle. Whoops. Bob might put that in the next Transformers.
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I liked Signs too. You are not alone!
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The entire thread is full of links, but basically just go to Trekmovie. They have been in contact with Bob for a while now and confirmed that both the bob here was him, and he reiterated that nothing Quint posted was true.
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The movie isn't being made for Trekkies? Then who the fuck do they expect to show up? Do these guys get that anything called "Star Trek" is NOT going to attract "new" fans?
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then why not do the smart thing: new ship, new captain, new crew, new five-year mission? <p> Don't disrupt continuity or canon, but don't adhere slavishly in some ways and goof it up in other ways.
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Can you have them go back in time and make Kirstie Alley hot again? Thanks.
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WTH is Area 51 so cool. It's basically a made up place where they supposedly test hi tech army crap.
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Jan. 8, 2008, 4:04 a.m. CST
Young Kirk was described in the first episode as a walking stack
by Defiant
In the first episode of the original series someone who knew Kirk from the academy called him a walking stack of books. He was always intelligent, which makes it seem like in this movie he wont be
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You guys remember that, Nimoy is homeless actor begging for handout. And Joeeliliott is the nobody cock boy that no one cares about.
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New Ship, New Crew, New Mission. Sidestep it all, like ST: New Frontier. Heck, if you want at least some established Trek, use the Excalibur and Capt Calhoun. I'd much rather see that than a retread.
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You can't be serious.
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Where is that supposed talkback?
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the movie? I loved that movie actually. I think you just have to realize that the movie isn't about aliens at all. It's about the affect a loved one can have on their family even when they have passed away...
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but I still don't like the ending at all. I don't think they should have ever showed that stupid alien.
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..You dumb cuntish whore. You said the guy approved Routh? Did the old bag approve the script,director and the rest of the cast? NOPE! Guess what? Nimoy has approved all of these things! Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you open your virgin's mouth.
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One of the aliens there might be able to help me work out how to use my new stupidly overcomplicated MP3 player.
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Orci and Kurtzman are true laymen. It's great that these two guys probably worked hard to get where they are, but in a sense, they are in touch with the commoner.<br><Br>For example, no self respecting movie geek, Transformers-fan, would ever have Optimus Prime or any other character not played by a Wayans brother say, "my bad". Horrible. The problem lies with the common person who laughed at the "my bad". Some kids somewhere were shouting, "Yo, that dope robot said, "my bad", just like us, yo!". Orci and Kurtzman probably high-fived each other after hearing people laugh in the test screenings. "Transformers" made around $706 million world-wide. At a guess-timate of $10 USD average for every ticket not adjusting for pricing variants would roughly equal 70,600,000 people have seen this film.<br><br>Almost 71 MILLION PEOPLE. How many of them actually have an emotional connect to the characters of Optimus Prime or Capt. Kirk? The common demographic doesn't care or know about these characters. Those are the people that unfortunately, Orci and Kurtzman write for. I've seen all of the behind the scene interviews with these two and the claim to have loved both the Transformer and Star Trek franchises. What they call 'making it work' is changing the characters to their Hollywood template story needs. If I were writing a story about characters I loved, I wouldn't change fundamentally who they are.<br><Br>The common man thinks Capt. Kirk is some kind of pimp and skirt chaser. He really isn't. He's a man's man. He smart, strong, confident, and a leader...qualities that women find attractive...qualities that get him laid. Kirk would not bang a chick to reprogram the computer, Kirk would be pissed off and do it himself because he doesn't like to lose. He doesn't care about medals and parades...he likes to win and that is enough for him. Having Kirk bang the chick (this is a hypothetical, because none of us has any real info of the film yet) is to make Kirk more accessible to layman moral values.<bR><Br>Kirk always had a mission to accomplish or a crew to save, if he happenned to get some lady action along the way it was more like collateral damage, Kirk style. He wasn't out there being Leisure Suit Larry: Tang Hunter.<br><br>This is a very passionate issue to me. Two weekends ago, I actually went to see "AVP-R". I have no regrets about it, because I try to see every film that comes out. I love movies. I like to have an opinion on a film and be able to discuss it. Besides the lady I was with, the entire theatre consisted of late teen/early 20 something ethnic males. It was a crowed theatre and two young men sat down next to me who *reeked* of marijuana. Seeing every Alien/Predator film in the theatre, their truly was a demographical distinction.
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there are no gay or lesbian trek characters? or are there? are there gay klingons? How rough would that session be? and i'm not talkin' sulu or whoopie. Lt. Yar seemed a little butch, but then had her way with Data, the ultimate sex toy. I be Troi goes both ways...Just saying, the 10% isn't bein' represented in the future very much. Maybe there was a gay-purge during WWIII. <P>why do i gotta ruin everything with all the sex talk? <P>ds9 movie, please
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It sucks. Look at the Trek books. They've been shitty for the past 20 years while Star Wars books hit the bestseller lists.
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But the suits torpedoed the entire story. Blood and Fire, which New Voyages is now recording featured a gay couple who went on the away mission, as well as a thin alagory on AIDS. The script was to be shot on TNGs second season but was scratched at the last minute by someone at Paramount. Gene had plans to include more homosexuals on the E-D but his health failed to the point that he had like no say anymore on the show.
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The scene where the high school chick undresses and shows a close-up of her ass, was actually cheered in the theatre, not unlike Megan Fox bent over the engine in "Transformers". This did not make me as sick as the next part: The camera and cinematography actually panned to keep her ass in the shot when she was putting her pants back on, when clearly the subject of the frame was the boys standing in the background.<bR><BR>Now I love women and how they look as much as the next heterosexual male, but I don't like to be pigeon-holed as a demographic while seeing a film. It's intellectual-rape. A coined-term I used to only use for M. Night Shyamalan films. I expanded it to include anything a filmmaker will assume about there audience's taste or intelligence. (Example: M.Night thinks his audiences will never figure out his "twist" endings because they are too smart for the common man, Wachowski Bros. thinking everyone needs a little S&M and non-circular Pseudoscience in their pictures, all sci-fi/comic book fans need lesbions in their films/storylines).<bR><br>Orci and Kurtzman pigeonhole their audience by "dumbing down" and "modernizing" characters. Would someone ever make Dirty Harry or Frank Bullit say, "my bad"? Never. No matter what time period. Dirty Harry was made in the 70's and wasn't "jive" about anything and Bullit might drive a new 'stang but he still would be Bullit. Their characters would be the same in today's world as the time periods those films were made.<br><Br>People will still go to see these films because of the characters, not because these characters say funny Shrek-pop-culture-reference lines and have the moral values of a Melrose Place/OC hooker.
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2 hours of Avery Brooks over acting.
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about why they haven't remade (and ruined) "Dirty Harry." <p> "You have to ask yourself, fellow punk dude, like, feeling lucky. Yo yo you."
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It's gotta be.
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I respect your opinion, especially given the time and clarity you put into your post. Three responses: 1.) Your charge that we we are "in touch with the commoner is true." I take that as a compliment. 2.) You are not alone in hating the line, "My Bad." In our minds, it was never intended to reflect Prime's true nature. It was meant to reflect the efforts of an egoless sentient alien robot to communicate and placate the adolescents he was dealing with using information and slang he was learning and selecting from the world wide web. 3.) As far as your charge of sexism: we knew what we were getting into by going after Michael Bay to direct. To mitigate some criticism, we made Mikaela A GREASE MONKEY EXPERT ON CARS instead of a damsel in distress. She saves Sam from Frenzy and knows much more about him than cars. Again, I respect your opinion, and I believe you will be pleasantly surprised if you take the time to See Star Trek.
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That Kirk is a lothario is pretty well established. If he was doing that grabbing the girl shoulders and smooching her hard thing as a girdle-wearing late-thirtysomething starship captain, then surely he was on the prowl in college. BTW, I just want to add, before it's too late...CAST THE SHAT!!! This movie needs a little of the ol' Bill Shatner mojo. C'mon, where's Spock without Koik? Nimoy without Shat? Put him in a beard, though.
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Bob, gotta say, you are doing yourself a service by showing up here. Anyway, seems like from your answers a lot of the choices that were made in TF that got people here riled up (like the lack of screen time for the robots, etc.) had to do with practical constraints (the expense of animating/rendering the robots, Michael Bay's directorial preferences, etc.). Without arguing about that, I'd like to ask you: are there are any example you could give us of similar choices/compromises made in the Trek script?
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thanks to the fact that the characters in Trek are played by actual people instead of million dollar per second CGI constructs, no such compromises were necessary.
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http://www.trektoday.com/news/080108_01.shtml
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but all you need to do is go to treknation and click on trektoday. The good news is both the Area 51 and Kirk being picketed rumors are totally bogus. Sweet!
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I will go see this film and I want to have fun and enjoy a new "Star Trek" film. The lingering doubt that lies in the back of my mind about this new Trek is the ambiguity surrounding this film.<br><BR>With "Transformers" we had an idea of what was going on. We could ease ourselves into the changes that were made. I, for one, defended "Transformers" on many talk-backs, spreading the premise, "See the film, then you have the option to complain."<br><Br>Personally, I enjoyed "Transformers". Shia LeBouf did a good job and I enjoyed his screentime. The robots themselves were impressive, and it did give positive light on the military.<br><br>The negatives were typical Hollywood. Stereotypes, pigeon-holing, and gratification. Now I know I maybe chastised by other Talk-backers for this, but it is a logical conclusion that Michael Bay (from what has been witnessed is very definitive and tyranical in what he wants on film) and other powers that be had more influence over how the film turned out than your (coming to the conclusion that Boborci is truthful Bob Orci)script. For example, you had no control over the look of the robots or some of their individual actions. I will retort and stand corrected for my previous post of assuming you "pigeon-holing" your audience sexually, because of your motor-head defense, which was a positive for the character.
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In the case of Trek, or any other big film that keeps details hushed and top secret, is that it ups the shock factor. Now the shock factor is not a good thing. People can accept little changes in small doses. For example: Changes in the TF robot design were known months before the film was released. Some people were devastated by the changes, while others grew to accept them long before the film was released. They walked in with a certain expectation that helped buffer the difference.<BR><BR>As a reference, I can compare seeing Trek with spoilers to Trek spoiler-free as the difference between being punched in the face a couple of times to being hit by a car.<br><br>First scenario is walking away a little sore vs. walking away thinking Star Trek is dead.
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Fully aware that trek doesn't tend to feature a lot of expensive cg robots. My question was more whether there were things that you wanted (or might have wanted) to do that were pushed aside by practical considerations generally. I mean, my hunch would be that the studio is going to be somewhat cautious in funding another trek movie, given the past couple of films. Did this impact what you guys did with the story? Any examples of might-have-beens you could give us?
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your question in detail, but can't really do it without giving things away. I can only say that the biggest obstacle for us was time. We didn't, as a practical consideration, want to make a 3 hour movie. As a Trek fan, however, you can't fully put everything you'd want to put in in less than that. so we had to make some tough choices in that sense. Can't wait to discuss them once the movie comes out. Thanks for asking.
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appreciate the open mind. Truly.
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i understand ur a kirk fan, not sure how old u are or whatever , but kirk may not have been a pimp, but if there was pussy to be found, he found it and fucked it...he was a cheater, even if he did reprogram the simulation himself (without no female help) he reprogrammed it so he could win..and was a hypocrite when explaining the test to saavik in star trek 2. he broke rules when needed, stole a starship for personal reasons....etc. granted most of what he did worked out fine, and it showed he cared for those under his command, but he was no model officer, probably not for his whole career. that being said i would like to see him as an arrogant younger man, impressed with himself and being impulsive...im 36yrs old, watched all treks, all the movies and all the series, and even im not THAT passionate about it. as for prior trek films that didnt do good at the box office.. im sure that was because ONLY trek fans went to see them and not alot of the mainstream movie seeing public, which really wouldnt have much interest above a certain level anyways. i have low expectations for the movie, but i hope to be pleasantly surprised.
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ur post confused me to all hell, what did i misspell in my post ? word of advice for u.... stop eating lead paint and sniffing cleaning fluid, it causes brain damage. be safe
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You couldn't answer my questions could you, please? I would love your take on what I had to say. If you don't mind, I would love to ask about JJ's directing style for "Star Trek". Is he sticking with his "shaky cam" or has he toned it down a bit? Also, would you guys consider writing a DS9 movie? I know these questions are less controversial than the others but I would love to know, anyway. Thanks!
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