Movie News

Vanity Fair INDY/SKULL Pics Online!!

Published at: Jan. 2, 2008, 9:07 a.m. CST

Merrick here...
Happy New Year, everybody... Vanity Fair has posted an article about INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL. The piece features three new photos from Annie Leibovitz - including an image of Shia with a dopey expression that'll do little to excite folks about his being in the film, and a shot of Cate Blanchett as Russian badass Agent Spalko (unless I'm mistaken, this may be the first clear pic we've had of her in this role).

CLICK HERE TO SEE THEM!!!



Readers Talkback

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  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Down with LeBeuf

    by haggardatbest

    booooo

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Wow!

    by OBSD

    Three whole pictures! Wow!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Finally, something new to read with my coffee

    by FlickaPoo

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST

    BAN THE BEEF

    by BringingSexyBack

    Make him Robin, we need to see him in mint green Speedos.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST

    LeBeouf In a Box!

    by Nucking Futs

    1. Cut a hole in a box 2. Put LeBeouf in that box 3. Have her open the box And that's the way you do it. It's LeBeouf in a Box!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:13 a.m. CST

    Cate Blanchett looks like Parker Posey in a J. Peterman catalog

    by Pound Sand

    And the Katherine Heigl cover shot looks good too.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:20 a.m. CST

    watch the video...

    by Pseudo

    ...at the end of the Annie Leibovitz photo shoot and you'll see the cover of the February issue with Lebouf and Ford.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:20 a.m. CST

    AT LAST !!!

    by MrDagon

    A good adventure movie !!! Looks like a return to the first one !!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:20 a.m. CST

    INDIANA JONES and the VANITY FAIR PICS

    by JDanielP

    ...ROCK! (heh,heh)

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:22 a.m. CST

    INDY AND THE BILLIONAIRE DIRECTORS

    by MrDagon

    Anyway, I hope it doesn't suck...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Dopey expression?

    by MPJedi2

    You mean "smiling?" I'd be smiling too, in his position. He's struck me as basically being in a daze, having been cast in the film. Cut the kid some slack, he was pretty good in Disturbia and managed to wring some interest out of me during a Michael Bay film. Stop playing the jealous fanboy card.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:35 a.m. CST

    AWESOME

    by ABking

    Great pics!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:36 a.m. CST

    I have no problem with Shia

    by beastie

    He could be good, could be bad. My only reservation in this film is that the closer we get to modern times and further away from WWII the less facination I have with the subject matter.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Wait, why is his expression dopey?

    by rbatty024

    He's just posing for a picture. To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen him in anything yet so I have no preconceived ideas about his acting, but if The 'Berg trusts him I'll give him a chance.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Indiana Jones and the...

    by Kid Z

    ...Four Old Men Who Passed Their Prime Decades Ago!

  • Has anyone read the actuall text that goes with these pics ?, Lucas is having a go, at critics and fans alike , claiming that they hate him and his film, and that peaple have already made up their minds to hate it.Don't know about that , if it's a great film , then it will get all the praise it deserves.only a minority are going to call it shite , if it's not.It sounds like he doesn't have much faith in the project , if he's already prepaired for a backlash!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Karen Allen looks terrific

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Kate Blanchett looks like a carnival clown. Also, I couldn't resist clicking on the Michelle Phillips article, because Jesus, she's smoking hot and always was. That's just one fine-looking woman there.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:50 a.m. CST

    2nd pic

    by Liverstealer

    Any of you guys notice that the pic with Shia and Karen on the motorbike...Look at the friggin background. It's THE Warehouse!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:51 a.m. CST

    INDIANA JONES AND THE UNEXPECTEDLY TRUNCATED TALKBACK TITLE OF C

    by ArcadianDS

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:54 a.m. CST

    I agree: Down with LeBeuf

    by classyfredblassy

    It's fun to pile on. He is this generations Jason Biggs. KILL HIM!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Can someone post the pics elsewhere?

    by FookU

    The filter here at work is filtering out Vanity Fair as a swimsuit and lingerie site.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Raiders Of The Lost Backyard

    by Jim Halpert

    This section from the archives is a lot more interesting than the new article: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2004/03/raiders200403

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:59 a.m. CST

    I concur...Karen Allen does look good

    by just pillow talk

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Great Article (WITH SPOILERS)

    by Rando Calrisian

    That was probably the best article as of yet on Indy 4, with some great pics. Watch the short video at the end to see the cover of Vanity Fair featuring Indy and Mutt. <br> <br> Lucas seems a little skittish about the movie. That scares me a bit, I can't blame him - he's been dragged around for the last 5 years, and he needs this to be great. I still can't wait. I'll be there opening day. <br> <br> And give Shia a break, man. The kid can act. With Spielberg at the helm, he'll do just fine.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

    LOOKS GOOD SO FAR...

    by BurgerTime

    ...authentic Jones feel, great to see Karen Allen back from her hyperbaric chamber (the woman hasn't aged a day since Raiders), loved the motorcycle bit taken in the warehouse of crates (looks like things will come full circle) and George Lucas is looking more and more like Santa Claus every time I see him. Kinda fitting since he's given lots of great gifts to us fans over the years. Bring on 2008! Hell, bring on that Indy 4 Trailer!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:04 a.m. CST

    you can see a tiny

    by LarryTheCableGuy

    cate blanchett in the background of the indy,steven and george photo. i liked the lego pictures better, i guess theyre gonna go all out with the creatures, spiders, crocs, snakes... and skeleton warriors?!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:08 a.m. CST

    raiders of the found

    by LarryTheCableGuy

    and sealed up in a box and stored in a warehoue ark

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:08 a.m. CST

    HELL YES, I say!

    by aboriginal

    Too long in coming this is, but damn I cannot wait.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Saying "Shia with a dopey expression" is redundant.

    by JackPumpkinhead

    It's enough to say "Shia" - the meaning is the same.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Ford and Spielberg have said 'no' to Lucas for 15 years

    by performingmonkey

    You get the feeling that they know how crazy Lucas is and that they knew the alien idea was wrong for this series, so script after script was done until Darabont came up with the goods which the 'berg liked but Lucas, probably just out of spite (or maybe because Darabont had made it way too slow and deep and less fun, which is what I would guess), tore it up. Personally I think they should have done a movie about the pyramids.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST

    TOO OLD!

    by uss cygnus

    The end of the film Indy gets on Roy Neary's spaceship and gets off the ship in 1977 @ Devil's Tower in the "special edition" in "Close Encounters" as Dreyfuss boards it...fade to black and grab your air sickness bag.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:12 a.m. CST

    The "Beard" & Lucas

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    That picture of Lucas, Ford, and the Beard was great! Love the yellow orange lighting. That would be a great picture. Knock off the Shia hate. Hes put alot of movies on his back and done well. Finally he has names bigger than himself to act along side of. He paid his dues acting on disney and Iam Fucking Robot. & the same character in Constanine. Onto to Lucas. He really got his rep back in Episode 3 for me. And even more so when he said Spiderman 3 was "corny". That cracked me up. CORNY!! I wish more directors would comment on doo doo like that. Retire Raimi if you were so "exausted" during Spiderman 3 wah wah wah. You think you can do the Hobbit?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:12 a.m. CST

    I got worried when Lucas claimed the new movie...

    by rbatty024

    is less thirties serial and more 50's B-movie and then suggested the alien connection. Hasn't the whole aliens started the Egyptian/Aztec/Mayan civilization thing been done to death? It's also slightly racist if you ask me. If Europeans didn't build it, then it must have been aliens. Anyway, my love/hate relationship with this upcoming film continues. Whenever I see something that gets me excited, something else turns up that makes me worried. I am pleased they are avoiding the Nazis this time. They were great fun in the previous films but they've been stolen by just about every action-adventure story since.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:13 a.m. CST

    TOO SOON!!

    by stuntman mikey

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:14 a.m. CST

    I'm your god-damned partner!!

    by Darth Macchio

    I'm so thrilled to see Marion (Karen Allen) back. No question the best Indy girl. I have the greatest hopes for this as I love the Indy characters and universe. I still think Lucas is an asshat but as long as the 'Berg knows to get dialogue re-edits we should be spared the cringe-inducing lines Lucas gave us with the prequel trilogy (and yes, I do think Lucas is a genius story-teller...he just can't direct anything but action and he's not much for writing dialogue. Regardless...definitely looking forward to this one!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Trailer attached to...

    by stuntman mikey

    Cloverfield? any chance that rumor is true?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:17 a.m. CST

    The warehouse

    by Abominable Snowcone

    They probably have to do some kinda thing in the movie where the only thing powerful enough to stop the evil magic of the skull is the power of the Ark. So Jones has "top...men" pull it out of storage. Meanwhile, they shove Shia into the now-empty crate and nail it shut. And Indy rams his tongue down Marion's throat, and all is right with the world.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Why all the Shia hate?

    by That 70s Venom

    I've always thought he was a talented and entertaining actor. Why is everyone hating on him? Don't blame him because all of the Hollywood top dogs are throwing him at every big budget action movie they can get their hands on. He can pull these roles off a lot better than most actors, so leave the dude alone. He's got a bright future ahead of him and I can't wait to see him in something that really puts him to the test.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:21 a.m. CST

    I don't get all the hate for Shia.

    by The Visco Kid

    I have only seen him in a few films, but I never thought he was a horrible actor or that his presence ruined any of the films he was in. Can someone explain all the hate?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Now I'm concerned.

    by CatVutt

    The whole thing about Lucas ramming this damned 'MacGuffin' down everybody's throat for 15 years is a bit frightening. What are the odds of Lucas's instincts being right about ANYthing at this point?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Darth Macchio

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I agree, Marion is the best Indy girl. That's because she is steak for Indy, full and satisfying, whereas Willie and Elsa are just cheeseburgers. Indy has a history with her, apparently some kissy-kissy in their younger days, and there is a palpable substance there to the romance. Remember when he thought Marion died in "Raiders" and he got drunk, and probably would have stayed drunk forever? Whereas, in "Doom" if Willie died, Indy probably would have thought, "You know, that high-maintenance bitch was getting to be a pain in the ass anyway." Hell, I'll bet if it were Willie tied to the post with Indy at the end of "Raiders" instead of Marion, he wouldn't even have warned her not to look. He'd have let her look, and get melted.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Raiders of the Lost Costco

    by aboriginal

    All I ask is the Shia Lebeouf not act like Shia LeBeouf. Too damn often now actors are really just being themselves reciting lines and throwing in the hit one-liners like "AW, HELL NO" yada yada. Be a true character this time please and not you playing you in a costume.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:24 a.m. CST

    I don't hate Shia

    by Abominable Snowcone

    but lately he seems to be stealing a lot of work from Ben Stiller, who up until 2005 was in every other movie.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Shia saved Transformers...

    by That 70s Venom

    ... from being a bad film and he brought it to the level of a good film. All you Bay haters and Shia haters can suck my fucking cock. You're just jealous because they made a shit load of money off of a toy line and a cartoon that you used to masturbate to when you were not having girlfriends in highschool. All you retarded fucking "Damn you Michael Bay" sons of bitches wouldn't know how to make a movie if Steven Spielberg slapped you with his dick, so shut the fuck up and go back to serving fries to people who are smarter than you are. I hope Michael Bay makes a Transformers 2 and doesn't follow the cartoon/comics at all and does the shit his own way like he did with the first one just to piss you pathetic cocksuckers off. My ass will be in the seat, enjoying the expensive special effects and eating my popcorn. And back to Shia. He was awesome in Disturbia too. He is a good actor and you fucking bastards are just jealous of him because he's in all the coolest movies and you're not. "ZOMFG ANOTHER SHIA MOVIE WTF I'M GONNA CRY WAAAAAH" Grow up bitches. And by the way Michael Bay owns your soul.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Get Off My Motorcycle!

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    Ive never really noticed. But can Shia hide his Boston accent?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Karen Allen/H. Ford best part of Raiders Fran.

    by Diagnostic

    The other female leads did not balance Ford at all. Because Karen Allen portrayed a character that could take/beat Indy. <Br> Great that she is back.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:28 a.m. CST

    70s venom

    by Abominable Snowcone

    You mean, John Turturro's character didn't help? :)

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Abominable Snowcone

    by That 70s Venom

    Turturro was miscast, but he pulled the role off nicely. I love to see Turturro in just about any film. Good fuckin actor.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Jesus you guys are the most iconoclastic assholes

    by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World

    Hey look a thread about a Shia LaBeouf movie, I'll post about how people should stop hating the guy, he's really not so bad. Hey look an alien vs. predator thread. I'll post about how alien 3 and 4 are really underrated, in fact their my favorites. A blade runner thread? That move is overrated and boring guys. Etc., etc., you fucking tools, you never have the balls to have your own opinions unless you see some other guy starting it, then what do you know, Everybody who loves Rocky 5 shows up! Hey! That band wagon isn't to full yet, let me jump on that. Hmm, it's hip to hate everything so how can I be even hipper than that? I know! I'll like the things that everyone else hates, then I'll come out the hippest yet.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:36 a.m. CST

    That 70s Venom (You're an idiot)

    by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World

    How the hell can you say Shia "saved" Transformers? How can anyone who isn't a giant fucking robot save Transformers, no human actor, and especially SHIA FUCKING LABEOUF, will SAVE a fucking TRANSFORMERS movie. I don't need goofy highschool kid movie bullshit in a Transformers movie.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Spielberg > Lucas

    by BackwardGalaxy

    The part that worries me most about this article is how it goes into detail of how Lucas insisted on a specific storyline and Spielberg didn't like it... and then Spielberg got a script from Darabont, and Lucas nixed that. After the prequels, I can't possibly trust Lucas anymore. I love Spielberg's movies, even though I'm told that it's not cool to say that anymore. I can trust that he will entertain me. I can't say the same about Lucas anymore. I just hope that Ford and Spielberg are doing this movie for the right reasons and not to revive their career and appease Lucas respectively.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Guy Who Got A Headache

    by That 70s Venom

    So you're suggesting that I agree with all of these fucks who hate anything and everything that comes out of Hollywood? Sorry but I won't be a little sheep like you want me to be. If I enjoy a movie or an actor then I will stick up for them. Sorry if that bothers you.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:38 a.m. CST

    No

    by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World

    I'm just saying you have shitty taste in films if you like Transformers, and your own head up your ass if you classify LaBeouf as a "good actor"

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:40 a.m. CST

    Gotta be killing Lucas

    by JackieJokeman

    to have to work with those primitive physical sets and not just a few green sheets.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Indy's relationship with women

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Here's how it is:<p> In "Temple of Doom," Willie Scott is little more than extra luggage for our hero. Sure, she's great-looking luggage that you might want to have sex with, but she's still luggage. How much does Indy care about her? When she gets knocked from her elephant, observe as our hero plucks absently at a mosquito on his face and looks off in the distance. At the end, when he's about to slice the bridge in half, he doesn't even warn her. Instead, he addresses Short Round, in his own language, and HE inteprets for Willie. During the movie, when Indy does address Willie directly, it's like she's an obnoxious kid. Recall: "I'm allowing you to tag along" or "You're insulting them, and you're embarrassing me." He also speaks to her with the occasional mysogynist terms "sweetheart" and "doll." He rarely uses her name.<p> In "Last Crusade" Elsa is an immediate target of lust for our hero. He pins a flower on her at their first meeting, in Venice, I believe? And it doesn't take long for Indy to nail his prey. In fact, it's probably even the very same night that they hook up (after the whole library-sewer adventure). For Indy, "X" marks the spot on Elsa. Little more. She merely becomes a comedy prop for Indy and his dad's competitiveness, because she did them both.<p> But Marion is the real deal, an equal of sorts ("goddamn partner") because of their past, which is only hinted at when we first meet her. She can throw punches and drink as well as he can, but still look great in a (torn) dress. When Indy screws up and thinks Marion is dead, he could give a fuck about whatever his mission might have been. He only wants to get drunk with his monkey (a animal symbol of masturbation). Plus, Marion wins approval from Sallah, an honor not bestowed upon other leading ladies. Indeed, Sallah isn't even in "Doom," so little did he think of Willie-the Whiner-Scott. The scene between Indy and Marion on Captain Katanga's boat where he tells his love to kiss him "here, here...and here" is priceless because it meant something tender in a way that kissing Willie and Elsa did not. For Indy, they were conquests where Marion was...um, what's the word...a rarer find?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:42 a.m. CST

    i'm serious

    by LarryTheCableGuy

    in those lego pics there's skeleton people wearing hats and possibly a spear and an ax. this is gonna be one fucked up movie.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST

    So the Russians are looking for UFOs?

    by Rickey Henderson

    That's pretty weak IMO. The Nazi occult plot line in "Raiders" made sense because it was based on a little bit of historical fact... but the Ruskies hunting for UFOs? What, was there a SETI gap that everyone was worried about during tyeh Cold War? That's just a little too outlandish for an Indy flick.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST

    Nice Lucas quote:

    by rev_skarekroe

    '“The fans are all upset,” Lucas says. “They’re always going to be upset. ‘Why did he do it like this? And why didn’t he do it like this?’ They write their own movie, and then, if you don’t do their movie, they get upset about it.' I think I'm going to paste that into every Talkback on AICN from hear on.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:44 a.m. CST

    For some reason I am not excited by this movie

    by Series7

    I guess because I was not that big into Indy when I was younger. Like I enjoy the movies and all just never got excited by them. But what worries me the most is if this works. See Rocky Balboa worked, and hopefully so will Rambo Allah willing. Die Hard 4 kind of worked. Which is just a huge kick in the nuts to any re-make, redo, follow up to any old series thats been dead for a while. You need the original people involved other wise you are just going to make crap. But hopefully this doesn't lead to a bunch of uneeded redo's, retelling's with the original people ala Sleuth. Especially Micheal Caines work, I think his movies have been done to death. But whatever there is already talks of a new Metropolis and Escape from New York.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:48 a.m. CST

    AICN's Shia hate = guys trying to fit in

    by ArcadianDS

    its all fueled by a bunch of AICN noobs who just fell upon the site a year or so ago, and think that jumping on the Shia hate-wagon is an express ride to being part of the site.<p> I'd wager that an overwhelming majority of the shia haters really dont care one way or the other about his acting skills or lack thereof. If he was half as bad as most of the bandwagoneers on this site would have you believe, then why is he showing up in movies every four months? Why are casting directors repeatedly finding roles for him, if he's so bad?<p> Maybe I'm wrong, but a bunch of fat guys avoiding their jobs all day, and trying to validate their own failed dreams by trying to destroy someone elses' - MAYBE JUST MAYBE, they dont know as much about movies and acting as they think. JUST MAYBE, people like Spielberg and Lucas know a little more about this than they do. Me personally? I'm going to have to admit that I know far far less than those two award-winning directors, and stay out of the Shia Hate. Anyone with an ounce of brains in their heads would be quick to do the same.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Guy Who Got A Headache

    by That 70s Venom

    Your opinion isn't unanimous. Reviews for Transformers were mixed, about 50% hating it and 50% loving it. So if I think Transformers was a good film then I'm not alone. Just because you have some kind of blood-sworn vendetta against Michael Bay and Shia LaBeouf, that won't change my opinion of them or their films. Personally? I'll be optimistic and enjoy more Megan Fox and giant fucking robots beating the shit out of eachother. And why are you so against a highschool theme in a movie? Did you have a life-scarring experience in highschool or something? God forbid should highschool students be in films. Spike Witwicky should've been played by Christopher Eccleston, right? A 30-something actor instead of a teenage actor to play a teenage character whose source character from the cartoon and comics was... oh my God...what's this... A TEENAGER!?!?!??! WHOA!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Shia Cycling...

    by greenstyle92

    through the warehouse where the Ark is kept. With his Mom, apparently. The kid has odd tastes in how he spends his Saturday nights.<br> <br> As for Shia himself... Holes is a good movie and Shia is the only watchable human in Transformers. People just hate on him because he's becoming a movie star and we caught onto it before it happened. we want people's ambitions to fail.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST

    WTF?

    by seniorspeilbergio

    I don't understand what you guys have against Shia LeBouf? He looks and acts like a normal kid and is likeable in everything I've seen him in so far. He's shy and awkward around girls, smart, and has average looks. You guys should be relating to this kid. Or would you prefer one of these pretty boy metrosexual CW motherfuckers who's all swagger and posses with absolutely no character in the face? What separates LeBouf from the rest of these young punks is he actually has some fucking personality. He has character in his face. That's what happens when you come from a modest household and have to actually work for what you have rather than having it handed to you by your rich parents. mommy and Daddy didn't pay for this kids acting classes and rent while he partied all night long at the clubs. He worked for this shit. Good for him. I saw Transformers for the first time recently and the only thing that held that movie together was that kids performance. Fuck those mismash robots. He was the best special effect in that movie!It's obvious that that character was nothing on the page. just a bare bones place holder. He brought a lot to that role and made a cardboard characterization 3 dimensional. that's a hell of a feat. It speaks to his level of talent. And as for range, look at Disturbia. That's a nuanced performance. To play a troubled teen who's still a good kid and likeable aint easy. I guarentee you none of the assclowns on Gossip Girl could have pulled that off. You guys get upset about this guy but when I see him I just say "thank God. Finally a young actor with substance." The kids' all right.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST

    I heard Lucas gets hit with Force Lightning and

    by Puddleglum

    becomes all nasty like Palpatine at the end of this film. <p> wishful thinking?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST

    I liked the part of the VF article talking about Rockwell....

    by Rickey Henderson

    It summed things up perfectly. Lucas and Spielberg are the Rockwells of our time. They make Americana fluff. Don't like how your fluff tastes? Well then stop eating it.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:54 a.m. CST

    That should read "from here on"

    by rev_skarekroe

    Also, Shia Lebouf appears to be this decade's Leo DiCaprio - hated by movie nerds everywhere for no particular reason until they eventually realize he's actually pretty good.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Indyfilms and "real" UFOs should not mix

    by finky089

    UFOs as a red herring for something else, fine. Real aliens. eh, no....

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST

    That's just a little too outlandish for an Indy flick?

    by slone13

    <p>Please. After magical Sankara stones, the actual Holy Grail, and a demon spewing Ark of the Covenant, you're not buying Russians looking for UFOs?? Open your mind, suspend your disbelief, and just have a fucking good time.</p> <p>And damn does Marion look good!</p>

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:56 a.m. CST

    So Spielberg's got no love for quick cutting!

    by wolverines claw

    He made some very good points. Shame he couldn't sell this point-of-view to Bay on Transformers!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Blanchett's hair ??

    by finky089

    Now we know where V's wig went when the Wachowski's finished "V for Vendetta"

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:56 a.m. CST

    I agree with BackwardGalaxy...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...I can't wait to see this, grew up with Indy and just hoping for a giant screen full of old school fun......that bit about Lucas sticking to his one idea against Spielberg and Ford makes me feel a little nervous and queasy in my tummy though. Lucas lost me with the prequels...just boring as hell. Love Harrison Ford, but he has been known to pick some unholy stinkers...real stench unto heaven type stuff. The one guy you can consistently count on to entertain is Spielberg...I hope that his good sense saves the day... Go Indy.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST

    seniorspeilbergio

    by That 70s Venom

    You hit the nail on the head there.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Is that issue of VF out yet?

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I'm going to cream all over it!<p> 70s venom. I was embarrassed for Turturro, but if that's the kind of character Bay was going for, then Turturro pulled it off

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Shia is the new Tom Hanks

    by That 70s Venom

    Seriously.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11 a.m. CST

    "Aliens" aren't "too outlandish" for Indy films, but

    by finky089

    they seem to depart a bit from the "gods" and biblical nature of the macguffins from previous films. <p> I'll be there opening day and thrilled just to watch another Indy adventure, so for now, my opinion on the film is tabled. My instinct says 'stay away from aliens', but I also don't have the whole picture in front of me, so it might make a great story when I see the finished product. <p> All TRUE Indy fans will keep their minds open til they actually see the flick.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Abominable Snowcone

    by That 70s Venom

    It seems to me that Turturro was just having fun with the role, which is what actors should do in my opinion. He brought just the right amount of levity and faux sincerity to the role. I love to see great actors hamming it up in action films.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:03 a.m. CST

    Indiana hates snakes

    by LarryTheCableGuy

    His father hates rats, I wonder what Mutt hates? probably girls.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:05 a.m. CST

    The religious stuff is more grounded than aliens

    by Rickey Henderson

    The Ark makes sense in the serial style of the Indy universe. Aliens? Not so much. I stand behind what I said about UFOs being too outlandish for and Indy flick. And yes, I'll totally be there opening night to see this nonethless. Give that old bastard the whip, fedora, and cue up the classic John Williams theme and you've secured my hard earned $10.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Rickey Henderson

    by That 70s Venom

    Fuck yeah man. Fuck yeah.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Film will fail with out Alfred Molina in it.

    by Diagnostic

    He must play an uncredited role in this one. <br> Or it will suck.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:08 a.m. CST

    OK, LarryTheCableGuy...

    by rev_skarekroe

    ...I think it's stupid to hate Shia Labouf. But your post was funny.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Pillow Talk

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Karen Allen is finishing up some housework at my place. It's....different with her. She's sexy, yet maternal and sensitive toward...dare I say...my feelings? My contentedness? She'll blow your stack, then go cook you dinner and ask "are you happy, baby?" and she means it. It's insane. I'll send her over in a couple hours.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Snowcone

    by That 70s Venom

    Hahahahahaha...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Blanchett in uniform...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...oh yes. <p> Nope, Miss Ruthless Commie interrogator, I WON'T tell you were it is. You'll have to... *ahem*... extract the information from me.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST

    If they wantus to be truly excited...we need a trailer.

    by Kirbymanly

    Even slow-poke Lucas had Star Wars trailers by Nov.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:18 a.m. CST

    Is it just me, or is George Lucas transforming into...

    by Pizza The Hut

    Santa Claus?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Indiana Jones and the Talbackers from Hell.

    by Yoda's Ball Sack

    Stay home and rent the movie on DVD. All you whiners stay away from the movie theatres.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:21 a.m. CST

    lol @ "Uncredited Molina"

    by Rickey Henderson

    Theres a dynamite talkback handle for ya...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:23 a.m. CST

    Kate is hot in uniform

    by gaiking001

    I am strangely arroused by her picture...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Karen Allen is a MILF

    by Dr. Egon Spengler

    That's all that needs to be said. Oh, and I'm pretty fucking excited about this movie!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:26 a.m. CST

    So - is Vanity Fair THAT enamored with the Bourne Movies or

    by Johnny Law

    are they just trying to be current with their movie comparisons?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:29 a.m. CST

    okay Abom...

    by just pillow talk

    since I'm sending Cate over in her full garb. She's gonna take that sensitivity that Karen gave you by force. And you'll like it.<p>Karen will need to come over in a few hours...I need all the 'recovery' time I can get from Cate.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:30 a.m. CST

    two wallpapers

    by LarryTheCableGuy

    i made for any indy fans out there... http://tinyurl.com/2yjquf http://tinyurl.com/2az82l

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:31 a.m. CST

    I'm almost positive

    by Abominable Snowcone

    That Molina was credited at the opening of Raiders. I made a point to look for it again after Spidey 2 came out.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:33 a.m. CST

    You're right, he was credited

    by Rickey Henderson

    no one knew who he was back then so the name seemed irrelevant.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:34 a.m. CST

    So do they bust into the warehouse...

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    on the bike because before they go on the mission they say "We're gonna need Ark. Lots of ark."

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Whoa, Blanchett can interrogate me anytime

    by Grammaton Cleric Binks

    That's all

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Neither, Johnny Law

    by Rickey Henderson

    VF was just comparing the current (and awful) "jump cut" trend of editing in modern movies to what they're doing in Indy 4. God how I hate jump cuts and choppy editing--it's an assault on the eyes and brain. It'll be nice to see a movie made by a director who actually holds the goddamned camera still for a change...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Indy and the Boys from Brazil

    by aboriginal

    If they're up for another one, it ain't Indy unless he's beatin' down the rise of the Reich with an army of little Hitlers using ancient Incan relics derived from crashed UFO technology. Or maybe this is the secret plot of the KGB and the the real movie plot???

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:37 a.m. CST

    The religion vs aliens complaint...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...is really firmly placed in the "real dragons can talk" section of talkbackism. <p> Honestly, why does Jones have to be defined by that? Pulp heroes are just as pulpy and cool whether they're fighting aliens, monsters, ghosts, Nazis or Communists. I kind of like the idea myself, as long as they don't in any way connect it to the CE3K aliens.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Molina is credited at the opening

    by aboriginal

    Watched it just recently and it still holds up. Cool to have gone to the part of Kauai where it was filmed and wonder if they went back there again or elsewhere on the islands?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:43 a.m. CST

    if Jones, as Doc P said, remains pulpy

    by just pillow talk

    the "who" and "what" he faces does not have to be the same. I really want this movie to 'feel' like an Indy movie, and what I have seen so far has me optimistic. <p>And yes, we don't need Indy to make a mashed potato mountain on his plate.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:43 a.m. CST

    What's wrong with Shia?

    by viola123

    I thought that was a cute picture and on the cover, him and Harrison look fine together. I liked the pic of Harrison with George Lucas and Steven Spielberg the best though.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:44 a.m. CST

    shit...and who knew the 'Dear Pillow"

    by just pillow talk

    ad had me pegged so easily. "for kinky sex addicts" indeed....

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Why hasn't Karen Allen aged?

    by 3 Bag Enema

    Harrison Ford looks like her fuggin' dad. Karen Allen - WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARE YOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUU?!?!?!?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:47 a.m. CST

    big fan of all 3 films...

    by FleshMachine

    but im skeptical about this one...course ill still be 1st in line. i remember crusade feeling too "phantasic" at the time (i was like 14) until i realized that they all were.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:47 a.m. CST

    As much as I prefer the supernatural for Indy

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    aliens would be okay as long as they 1) yes, avoid the temptation to do a CE3K crossover and 2) Don't do a widescale sacrifice of human civilization for the idea, like one filmmaker I know...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Shia and the Nazi spy from Cairo have a bike race

    by finky089

    You know you want to see it. If Shia loses, he becomes the Nazi Spy's new "pet monkey"

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Cant wait for May

    by metaluna

    From that article I'm even more excited by the story line. Sounds like it's going to be good to me. I wonder if Spielberg still cuts on a moviola? Anyone?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:58 a.m. CST

    OOOhhhhh Innnndyyy...

    by AllieJamison

    please be gentle...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, noon CST

    Kate Blanchett Wasnt In Costume Fellas

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    shes a real life ballbuster. And a little over-rated. I cant name many actresses that look like halloween one minute and then in another look...alright. Never the less she kinda freaks me out. I always think of her death stare from LOTR. I bet she looks sloppy naked too.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:01 p.m. CST

    There will be no gentleness for you

    by Abominable Snowcone

    He's a man with a leather jacket and a whip, and a scar on his chin. And a gun. You're going to get IT.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Lucas comes across as a jerk

    by lex romero

    "No i want this to be the macguffin! weh weh cry cry. I don't care if Darabont did a good script i want more aliens in it!"

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Shia LePoof is going to....

    by red ezra

    suck up a lot of screen time in this flick i can guarantee it - these guys are thinking franchise and retirement money with this kid

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Get Off My Wife!!!

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    Theres a double meaning there. Hope Karen Allen's voice has changed over the years. Little brute, little tough. But not as tough as Kate Blanchetts weiner. & this should not be considered Indy Fanboy Hate. I have always feared Blanchett's over acting hardware.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Thank God Spielberg is involved

    by Mel Gibsteinberg

    I think all of us are a little gunshy thanks to those amazing prequels. But remember, though Lucas got his way with the MacGuffin, he didn't get to film everything on massive green screen sets, with green covered gimbles and rigging, and then just "paint" in everything later. Those are real sets, with real light, real dust, and real textures. AWESOME! <P> Also I was really glad to hear that both Janusz and Stevie sat down and watched the whole first trilogy to get the feel and tone of the movies right. The Beard admits he is swallowing his pride, taking a step back, and not going for the ultra modernistic style film making that he and Janusz have put together over the last decade and a half, instead they will make it work with the other Indy films, and that is an encouraging thought.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:07 p.m. CST

    yeah, I'll accept that Shia is the new Tom Hanks

    by Spandau Belly

    Because Tom Hanks was an average looking guy who just played a nice dork in most of his movies, which were mostly mainstream fluff, many of which we enjoyable.<br><br>I actually didn't think Hanks could really act until Road to Perdition. That was the first time I felt like I wasn't just looking at Tom Hanks. He really was that hitman, and so understated.<br><br>So there's a very strong likelyhood of Shia playing a dorky nice guy in a bunch of popcorn movies of varying quality for the next twenty years and busting out the odd surprising performance. You won't catch me saying that won't happen.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Get Off My Son!!!

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    heh...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:18 p.m. CST

    it's just like in the article....

    by occula

    it was cool to hate on norman rockwell until finally nobody could argue anymore that he wasn't a talented, influential part of american culture. i think the initial wank from the AICN gang is because none of them were asked to play parts in the film and shia was!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:18 p.m. CST

    evil Cate...

    by BizarroJerry

    Aw, I was kinda hoping for "femme fatale" kinda character out of her. Y'know, still wearin' girlie clothes. That just looks too cartoony. From what I can tell, Cate can sometimes look gorgeous, other times look old, and other times just look goofy. I was hoping they'd be going for the first one here. Unless this is only one of the ways we see her. <p>Oh, and Karen Allen has actually aged guys. She still looks pretty good to me, she just ain't ageless. But remember, cuteness tends to last a long time. That's what she's got going for her. I know some people that found Marion annoying, but I think she was great. She definitely fit into the Princess Leia mold of characters ya'd like to do, but could also kick your ass if you're not careful. I dunno why the other flicks didn't continue that tradition. How can you not love Marion when, as she and Indy are about to be sealed in a tomb with little chance they'll ever survive, she yells "You bastards! I'll get you for this!"

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Another nice Lucas quote:

    by F69

    “There’s a difference between throwing a puppy on a freeway and watching what happens and constructing a story,” That George Lucas is a sick sick man.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Ease up on Shia LaBeouf. The young man has talent.

    by JDanielP

    I thought that Shia LaBeouf did great in TRANSFORMERS...and I immediately felt his staying power, believing that he would be around (as an actor) for many years to come. And now, I can remember reading a quote from Steven Spielberg, believing Shia LaBeouf to be the next Tom Hanks. So, basically, to hell with the haters. And by the way, I enjoyed TRANSFORMERS. It was a good, summer popcorn-flick...with cutting edge special effects. And I can really dig that about summer. Sure, I don't want every flick to be such mindless fun. But I do enjoy the summer spectacle.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Colin Hanks is the next Tom Hanks damnit

    by Rickey Henderson

    didn't you bastards get the memo?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:24 p.m. CST

    occula

    by JDanielP

    I just gotta say, I've long been a Norman Rockwell fan. So screw those haters, too.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Rickey. Thats Funny

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    I was just thinking I cant wait to see what people say here when Shia plays Tom Hank's son in some movie and then...Oh yeah. Colin. Speaking of Colin. Hes good. & needs to fire his fucking agent to get him in a fucking new movie.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:30 p.m. CST

    Ooo, I'm a geek! I dislike all teen actors!

    by BizarroJerry

    Get over it guys. Anyone ever seen The Greatest Game Ever Played. Sort of a bland but ok golf movie starring Shia, who does nothing wacky or over the top, and actually acts pretty well. Can't we be happy the powers that be are showing interest in this sorta goofy kid instead of the latest forgetable dead-eyed pretty boy from a teen soap opera?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Wonder If Colin Hanks Is Secretely...

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    Planning to take out Shia! Theres a movie right there! The Beard told Bay to check out the "New Tom Hanks" for Transgenders. I bet the Beard has lunch with Tom Hanks and just goes on and on about how talented Shia is. Colin just sitting there grinding his teeth as Tom agrees with him being the next Him. Colins got a darthboard with a picture of Shia on it. Colin crying calling his agent screaming why he isnt the New Tom Hanks. This could go on...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Harrison Ford is the next Harrison Ford

    by AllieJamison

    He looks ...good. And if I was able to I'd describe it in more chocolate coated pussyish words.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:49 p.m. CST

    Cate Blanchett would look better as a Nazi

    by kafka07

    with her natural blonde hair and all. But I'm sure she'll pull off a good Russian accent. I like what Spielberg says in the article about trying to repeat the lighting atmosphere made by Douglas Slocombe in the first three films, saying he doesn't want the new guy to modernize and bring us into the 21st century.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:50 p.m. CST

    look, say what you will

    by bootle2

    I am actually shocked at how HOT I find blanchett in that costume!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Spielberg directing is no guarantee of anything

    by amrisharmpit

    He's made bad films before - Hook, 1941, The Lost World, The Terminal, the 2nd segment of the Twilight Zone movie. I think the real concern is exactly what someone else stated. He's using an idea he didn't like in a script that isn't the one he did like.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 12:55 p.m. CST

    I only doubt Ford's charisma

    by Spandau Belly

    I've said this since the begining of this project. I don't think it's hard to write an Indiana Jones adventure. I know Spielburg can still deliver great action. This supporting cast sounds great. Ford looks fine, and I don't have a problem with older action heroes anyway.<br><br>It's just that I haven't seen Ford be charismatic in a long time. It's not that his last good film was The Fugitive. Stallone made bad movies for most of the 1990s and Sean Connery made millions of bad films over his career, but even when I was watching garbage like The League of Extrordinairy Gentlemen or Judge Dredd, I still felt like I was looking at a real movie star with undeniable charisma. I haven't felt like that with any of Ford's movies in almost twenty years.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Guy Who Got a Headache - I totally agree

    by Bobo_Vision

    You summed up exactly what I was thinking when i was reading this talkback up until that point, so I had to stop reading to comment. You're dead right about the talkback bandwagon and how talkbackers love to try to be different. <p> For me, thats precisely why there is so much Vern love at this site. For the mindless talkbackers who like to seem different, Vern is their messiah. He tells them which movies they should like which everyone else hates. He convinces them to like crappy Steven Seagal movies, or Predator 2, or anything else he decides to pull out of his ass. I like Vern's writing, but I get nauseous at the Pied Piper effect he has on mindless talkbackers.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:03 p.m. CST

    my brother used to hang out with cate

    by ironic_name

    pointless information, but it makes me feel bigger than you.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:03 p.m. CST

    colin hanks can't help it if he was born talentless

    by occula

    good on you, jdaniel - you stick by your guns! i personally think the golden age of american illustration is just as important in our culture as an original art form as jazz is. in fact, look at how it influenced things even like film - where did the serials that lucas and spielberg loved so much get their imagery from? from the turn of the century illustrations by leyendecker and wyeth from books like 'last of the mohicans' and 'treasure island'. it's all a beautiful cycle. *gets off soapbox*

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:04 p.m. CST

    By Harrison Fords Ear Ring!

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    Seriously have you seen that? Hes got a silver stud in his left ear while canoodling with Clarisa Fuckhard. Midlife chrisis. Thats the only thing thats bugged me about him lately. Oh and does he need to be married anyways? Why not just go...Solo?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Dasher

    by Mel Gibsteinberg

    Spielberg has made some misfires, but Hook and 1941 were sort of failures because they were departures from his wheelhouse. As for Lost World, Terminal, and I would include parts of AI, nobody can be perfect. But I have faith that this is a great property, which instantly rises it up a notch. People need to re-watch the original trilogy and temper their anticipation with the quality of those movies and they should be fine. <p> IF you only like Ark, and don't care for Doom and Crusade, you probably won't have much fun with this one.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:24 p.m. CST

    when you consider alien life is far more likely to be real

    by slappy jones

    it seems fine to me.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:26 p.m. CST

    another great lucas quote

    by slappy jones

    "jar jar is by far the funniest character we have ever done"

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:28 p.m. CST

    the lego pictures are at slashfilm

    by ironic_name

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Jar Jar was mesa bad

    by Abominable Snowcone

    And not merely bad, but bombad, mesa bombad. They should have just named him Stepin Fetchit.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:30 p.m. CST

    what does lucas think of the vader sesions?

    by ironic_name

    and, "get in the car, bitch!"

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skullfucking of Doom!

    by Rickey Henderson

    It's still cool to post fake Indy titles, right? Right?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:31 p.m. CST

    crystal skulls and wilhelm

    by Staldo

    the wilhelm scream is annoying, but nowhere near as annoying as "errr-argh", the sound effect film makers think sounds like somebody dying, but sounds more like Bill Cosby's warcry. Now that I know what crystal skulls are,(fossilized skulls?) the title of the movie sounds less like the most idiotic euro power metal album ever.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Chestbumping

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Yes, but did you punch her?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:49 p.m. CST

    http://www.mitchell-hedges.com/

    by aboriginal

    For the uninformed on the real history of this crystal skull stuff. Remember In Search Of with Leonard Nimoy? Lucas was smart to use historical fact with the fiction and play it out. Its a great MacGuffin.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Bobo Vision

    by That 70s Venom

    You might want to drop the Holier-than-thou act because you can sit there and say that you're not on a bandwagon all you want but you basically just threw up a sign that says "I'm on the hate-everything that comes out of Hollywood bandwagon and I'm with the other people on the talkback who are always bitching because movies are never the way that I want them and I will never be happy and I hate my life so I take it out on the people on here who enjoy movies."

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:56 p.m. CST

    more annoying than the wilhelm scream

    by occula

    is that goddamned eagle cry that is used in literally every single film and tv show that has a moment that needs an eagle cry. oh, you know the one i'm talking about.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Lucuss you old fuck

    by Pipple

    Fans are always upset? How about you always keep re-releasing your old movies? Get over yourself... the berg is better.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 1:59 p.m. CST

    In search of . . . SPOCK

    by aboriginal

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8x2MEJQfUY best one was spontaneous human combustion stories Lucas should watch these

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:03 p.m. CST

    In search of...

    by Abominable Snowcone

    ...creepy shows you saw early Saturday night as a child.<p> I was raised in the catholic church, went to catholic school, but I loved that show completely eviscerated organized religion and filled me with despair. I loved it! Plus, I think it was on around the same time as Star Trek and Space 1999, I'd watch them all in a row and get my creepy freak on, then wander around my house in the dark, terrified that the ghost of Amelia Earhardt would get me, or some druids who built stonehenge, or robots from the Bermuda Triangle.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:04 p.m. CST

    That 70s venom

    by Bobo_Vision

    I actually love movies, though I'm not a big fan of a lot of the geek shit on this site like the comic book/Abrams stuff, but I'm looking forward to this movie and I think it'll be good. And I think Lebeuf can act, though he can be annoying as fuck sometimes like he was in Suburbia, but I think he'll be just fine under Spielberg's direction. <p> But as I read the talkback from the top, the majority of posts until 'Guy who has a headache's post were in defense of Lebeuf. And it seemed odd because there weren't any comments insulting him so such defense wasn't necessary, and it was also out of the norm since most talkbacks have Shia hate, so it was just another example of a bandwagon of people trying to be different. That was my point. <p> I guess I'm just getting fed up with talkbacks in general and am pondering TB retirement, but I don't hate movies, nor my life.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Aboriginal

    by Abominable Snowcone

    That opening to the ISO show brought back memories, but that porno music is gay. You can see an image of crystal skulls in the opening montage. I'm pretty sure they were handcrafted by robot monsters from space--the same ones who gave earth the cultures we now know as Mayan, Aztec and Incan.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:11 p.m. CST

    ...

    by AllieJamison

    (About George Lucas' interview position:)"In his favorite chair, he sat in a slumped posture, Nikes up on the coffee table." No manners ...those Americans. Apropos shoes. I wonder what the picture that we get a glimpse of in the photoshoot video will look like. When Cate Blanchett is positioning her soviet self on that dolly you can see Indy's shoe in the upper right corner...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:14 p.m. CST

    I hate to say it. This movie sounds like shit.

    by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz

    I just read that article and instead of coming away from it excited and pumped like I was before reading it I came away from it disappointed and having extremely low low expectations. <BR> <BR> This movie sounds like the fucking Phantom with Billy Zane except it's set in the 50s. <BR> <BR> It also sounds like both Lucas and Speilberg are sort of 50/50 on the movie. The fact that both Speilberg and Harrison Ford rejected the very idea being used in the movie many times over and now have finally come around and given in is a red flag people. This movie is being made for one reason, money. I don't give a shit what that interview that Lucas did the Q & A exclusive for the website says about him not doing it for the money. This movie is for the money. Ford has agreed to it because he needs to boost his career back up. And no question about it the movie will make tons of fucking money. Will I see it? Of course. Am I excited? Fuck no. Hopefully I'll be entertained but my expectations are very low now after reading that article.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:22 p.m. CST

    George Lucas hates everything - including you

    by hamster factor

    Wow... just wow. Geroge comes off as a complete raving lunatic on top of being a an asshole in that interview... Lucas: "So instead of doing a 30s Republic serial, we’re doing a B science-fiction movie from the 50s. The ones I’m talking about are, like, The Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Blob, The Thing" ... "I know the critics are going to hate it,” he says. “They already hate it. So there’s nothing we can do about that. They hate the idea that we’re making another one. They’ve already made up their minds.”...."The fans are all upset,” Lucas says. “They’re always going to be upset. ‘Why did he do it like this? And why didn’t he do it like this?’ They write their own movie, and then, if you don’t do their movie, they get upset about it. So you just have to stand by for the bricks and the custard pies, because they’re going to come flying your way”.... Is there any filmmaker around that has a more negative attitude about his own projects? Is there anyone that has as much contempt for his own audience - (you know the people that made you rich and famous) as Lucas has? WHAT A DICK

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:24 p.m. CST

    In Search of a MacGuffin

    by aboriginal

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074007/episodes - got the whole series right here. Looks like they're on DVD as well, but not a lot of YouTube postings. Bigfoot's a good one . . . http://tinyurl.com/2lkjp6

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Galadriel looks HOT

    by CuervoJones

    She gets hotter every day.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:37 p.m. CST

    I'll say this about Shia LeBeouf

    by skimn

    he ain't no Jake Lloyd....Thank God!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:40 p.m. CST

    GEORGE LUCAS = SILVERFINGER

    by BringingSexyBack

    Notice there's never been a black character in Indiana Jones. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:41 p.m. CST

    I can't help but be excited about this movie

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Spielberg. Lucas. Ford. Williams. ILM. Allen. Blanchett. Hurt. Winstone. Broadbent. Classy line-up. May can't come soon enough.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    AICN's should post the HANCOCK trailer...

    by future help

    looks good.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    OH MY... NEW YEAR, NEW HATERS... NEW TALKBACKERS!!!

    by ludmir88

    THAT'S EVOLUTION.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    November 5th 1955!

    by Captain Internet Sellout

    Are they going to put Doc Brown in it?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack

    by kwisatzhaderach

    What about Captain Katanga?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack

    by kwisatzhaderach

    What about Captain Katanga?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Shia LeFunkdat

    by johnnykool

    Check out this pic and tell me Shia doesn't look like a gay little douchebag: http://tinyurl.com/2v8c44

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Shia LeDouchebag

    by johnnykool

    Check out this pic and tell me Shia doesn't look like a gay little douchebag: http://tinyurl.com/2v8c44

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:47 p.m. CST

    I think we got Shia's publicist in the Talkbacks

    by Han Cholo

    Jesus, could you be any more of a mark for this kid? If people on the talkbacks don't like him, they don't like him, period. No amount of bitching and defending him will change anyone's mind. Me personally, I hated him the moment he was cast in Transformers. I figure Bay singlehandedly kills any love I have for actors that are stupid enough to appear in his movies. Though I gotta say Turturro gets a free pass, being Jesus from The Big Lebowski. <p> Another reason I hate Shia is that his mug is oversaturated to the point I don't want to see him anymore. They're trying to make him in to the next Tom Hanks but no one's buying it. He's not good looking and doesn't have lead action movie star chops. I'll probably get eaten alive for saying this but I'd rather see Keanu or Hayden Christensen. Hell maybe Paul Walker...... ehh maybe not.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Shia = Maguffin Ravenwood

    by Captain Internet Sellout

    I guarantee you that's Lucas' big epiphany..

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 2:50 p.m. CST

    And the hate begins

    by skywalkerfamily

    But when some Day of the Zombie number 28 comes out, fans will praise it.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:09 p.m. CST

    FUCK THE BEEF, BRING BACK THE ROUND

    by Prossor

    hang on to your potatoes!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:10 p.m. CST

    You know what, ludmir88?

    by Rickey Henderson

    You know what's worse than "haters"? The fuckwits who like to point out "the haters" in order to draw attention to themselves and appear cooler. That would be you cupcake. Bravo.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Classic

    by Orionsangels

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:19 p.m. CST

    About George Lucas...

    by JaPra

    If Lucas is a bit shaky about this new Indy, then I know it'll be good. The Prequel trilogy was a lesson in lazy filmmaking with sparks of wonder here and there. I don't trust his instincts at all, period. He's so far removed from the every man/woman that his art, for the most part, cannot connect to it's audience, hence the prequel trilogy lacking any sort of resonance among fans.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Don't get the shia hate either

    by THE KNIGHT

    you cunts jealous?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Oh shit, they let George Lucas on the set!

    by photoboy

    Prepare for CGI Gungans defending the city of Atlantis!<br><br> Still, I'm loving the look of Cate Blanchett, very cool. I would be really quite excited about this film, except they've got Shitty The Beef in it, and Spielberg actually thought hiring Michael Bay to fuck with Optimus Prime would be a good idea. Spielberg has clearly not got The Touch. Ho ho.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:24 p.m. CST

    The last of my hopes are dashed

    by Mattyboy122

    I thought this flick might at least be enjoyable because of Cate Blanchett's unquestionable hotness, but they've managed to actually make her not hot. Amazing. Between that, UFOs, and Shia as Indy Jr., this flick has inspired no hope from me. Oh, and candy asses, half of the blame for the impending shittiness of this film goes to Spielberg, you know. Indy's son? That's PURE SPIELBERG. And throwing in his little pet Shia as the kid? Do you really think that was George's idea? The aliens bullshit is George's, Indy Jr. bullshit is Spielberg's.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Look on the bright side guys,

    by Dark Knight Lite

    July 18

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:43 p.m. CST

    give it a chance....

    by professor murder

    ...you might like SOME of it??? Well, if they are not using computers for effects and sticking to the old filmstyle shooting like they say they are, maybe we can still have that good ole' Indy feeling. Scriptwise, I know most think that putting alien related 'anything' in Indiana Jones is a bad idea(especially since the previous movies were GOD/religion related and this one jumps into against bible beliefs/outer space life), I'm still gonna hold all of my beef until I see it. I'm still excited for this one and will give it a chance.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:46 p.m. CST

    JESUS!

    by Fing Fang Foom

    that was a crazy article. Kinda worried about the movie but think it could be really coooool. Lucas is .. i dont know... really weird. I mean, what's his deal? Big chip, kinda sad. Great ideas!!!! but prequels were kinda lame. He's not writing it so... that's good. I like how the story and age makes sense. Aliens? First reaction is kinda worried but then i think of a movie thats Indiana Jones meets Close Encounters and i perk up. - Sweet photos. MacGuffin? uunhh... Lucas is a total McGuffin. u know? Why is it so hard to like this guy?! Please dont make a crap film!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:49 p.m. CST

    "throw a puppy on the freeway

    by hktelemacher

    and watch what happens." Classic. Every time I count Lucas out he says something truly wonderful.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:51 p.m. CST

    MacGuffin

    by professor murder

    If Lucas wanted a good MacGuffin so bad, why didn't he just go to McDonalds.........oh wait, ...nvmd.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:56 p.m. CST

    re:Han Cholo

    by Staldo

    On the scale of lame actors, Keanu Reeves is at the edge of tolerability. He's that kind of unskilled deadpan that doesn't ruin a movie he's in. He's just sort of there. Anakin as Han's son? Now that's fucked up.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Blanchett Is HOT

    by LaserPants

    I'm a sucker for a woman in uniform; especially fascist lookin' ones. HOT!!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Fuck It. Dont Release The Movie

    by Frodo T. Baggins

    That outa shut everyone up. Just enjoy it. Am I the only one that likes to see sequels because I love the characters and the world they live in? You Indy fans think you know pain? I wore my custom made Black Spiderman 3 Costume (www.spidertim.com) to see Spiderman 3. Do you know how hard it was NOT to get my ass kicked after the movie let out?! Someone said "There he is! Get him!". Yet I still bought Spiderman 3 on dvd. Movie was complete shit. But I bought it asap. And I will again. Even if the sequals suck. Arnt you at all grateful or excited to even be talking about Indy again? I love sequals good or bad. IF I love the characters in the first place. Yall actin like yall never seena jedi bfo

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 3:59 p.m. CST

    People bash Lucas

    by skywalkerfamily

    but then watch shit like Blade Runner and Alien 3.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:06 p.m. CST

    This movie is already Rocking my cock.

    by Proman1984

    And it will OWN yours! Bring on INDY 4!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Shia's character = Young George Lucas Mary-Sue

    by Flim Springfield

    <b>

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Enjoyed the other article in Variety also.

    by mrfan

    THe one about the young kids filming Raiders of the Lost Ark was great. Thanks for the link.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Temple of Doom hate

    by Staldo

    This article tore Temple of Doom a new one. I still maintain that Temple had the best moral. Whereas Raiders and Crusade basically amounted to "mess with the Judeo-Christian god and you'll get disintegrated in spectacular fashion" Temple was about choosing between fortune and glory and just doing the right thing. I'd like to point out that in the movies, we've seen Indy chase three judeo christian artifacts(the cross of coronado, the ark and the grail) and three non-christian artifacts(the emperor's ashes, the golden head and the shankara stones). Pretty even track record. I'm pretty sure Lucas has stretched the meaning of "McGuffin" until it is no longer a "McGuffin" , but I haven't made such an insane amount of money that I can surround myself in a miles-wide protective shell of reheated American nostalgia until I die, so who am I to question George.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:22 p.m. CST

    calm down

    by rajium32

    George is a human being, so are we. The movie probably will not be as good as the first three, but it will be fun anyway. I love being didactic (and a bad speller).

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:26 p.m. CST

    SPOILER!

    by DocPazuzu

    SPOILER! <p> Re those Lego pics: It seems we may get the best of both worlds - alien shenanigans AND the supernatural. One of the skeleton dudes is clearly wearing a Spanish conquistador helmet while the others don't look very human at all (could be wishful thinking, though). So, maybe we get alien mummies and conquistador zombies vs Soviet soldiers for the finale? I'd fucking buy that for a dollar.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:28 p.m. CST

    So. who will be the first to say DAMN YOU ... this year?

    by ludmir88

    and who will be the victim?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Indiana Jones VS Osama Bin Ladin

    by Pipple

    A really young Osama anyway. That'd be funny if Spielberg did this movie like Munich and made it all relevant and political and stuff...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:29 p.m. CST

    I loved Katanga

    by crazyhorse2099

    <p>Great character. "Mr. Jones, I've heard a lot about you, sir. Your appearance is exactly the way I imagined."</p> <p>And he's definitely black. And not even just "kind of black" like Barack and Tiger.</p>

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Re: Over used sound effects

    by Ray Garraty #47

    Speaking of overused sound FX (wilhelm scream, eagle cry), how about the "video games" audio clip from Atari 2600 that is used if kids are playing video games in a scene? This is the year 2008, people. Games have EVOLVED. It drives me nuts when there's a kid holding an XBOX 360 controller but you hear the sounds from Atari 2600 Pac-Man or Yar's Revenge. Donkdonkdonkdonkdonk Beloop bleep bleep bleep. Shit, at least evolve to a Super NES or Sgea Genesis.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST

    How long before...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...NoDiggity and M-O-M show up and piss everyone off in this talkback?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    ray Garraty

    by rajium32

    That's a funny point. Most games now have full fledged audio scores with contracted composers and artists. It's becoming a vital part (or should be) to the video gaming experience. But movies still have the 'I am playing a videogame' beep and whistles, hehe. aaah directors are overrated.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:38 p.m. CST

    re: Nosferatu Jones

    by hamster factor

    I want to like this movie, I'm actually pretty exited about it, but Lucas just basically told me it sucks and I will hate it. If the critics and the fans hate it, who is left? No one should judge ANYTHING based on reaction on AICN talkback. AICN talkback is the cesspool of movie talk on the internet. A LOT of normal people are actually looking forward to this movie. If Lucas had any sense he would have kept is hands off and his mouth shut and just collected his paycheck - because that is obviously all he cares about. If he was so worried about quality or public reaction than he would have simply said "No, we're not making another one. Period". He's just a whore now - but one with a big enough ego to think he should still be making creative decisions.

  • I hate debate symantics like above. Its how Christians battle Athiests. Use logic. You have no reason or evidence to assess what is or isn't a TRUE Indiana fan. Sorry, I think I am Autistic.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Is this the FATE OF ATLANTIS videogame movie?

    by travis-dane

    I dont know nothing about the new INDY movie!Is it true that a TRANSFORMER is in it?Like a russian superweapon of MASSDESTRUCTION?We should call George W. Bush,he can show INDY how to wear a real hat from Texas and how to Bullwhip enemies around the world.Now I dont know what I wanted to say.SHIT,maybe next time.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:55 p.m. CST

    that IS funny about video games

    by occula

    kind of like how all the way through 'airplane' there's a running sound effect of a prop plane instead of a jet? except in that case it was funny on purpose. i am a huge fan of whatever ridonk sound effects are used on-screen when people are on the computer/frantically searching the internet/hacking into a database. bleep! blarg! boing! pwnd!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Shia looks so sexy on that motorcycle.

    by Mike_D

    with his nappy hair blowing in the wind.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 4:59 p.m. CST

    The artifacts aren't really MacGuffins

    by I Dunno

    A MacGuffin has nothing to do with the actual story except to move the action forward. The artifacts in the Indy movies play a definite role in the narrative, namely, killing off the bad guys. The best example of a true MacGuffin in recent memory is the rabbit's foot in Mission: Impossible 3. Not only do we not know what it is, we don't even get to see it being taken.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Love that Steven and his cameraman are

    by skimn

    studying the originals. There is an underlying logic to Spielberg's action sequences. The classic example is the under-the-truck chase in Raiders. But look at sequences like the dance hall/fight in 1941, the Obi Wan scene in Temple, the tank sequence in Crusade. Even a flick that a lot of talkbackers don't like (although I do), Minority Report, has that brilliant extended chase scene with the jet packs in the alleyway. The camera is always where we should be looking and the editing suits every scene.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Encouraging

    by Mako

    OLD NEWS: We already knew about the backstory with Lucas and Darabont. We already knew about Lucas wanting a McGuffin that Ford and Spielberg (15 years ago) didn't want. But the great thing about what we now know is that Spielberg has gone out of his way to make sure KOTCS will fit nicely into the world of the first 3 Indy films. The look of the movie. The pace of the movie. Music (John Williams). He's the director. Not Lucas. I always say "Lucas is great at coming up with the BIG PICTURE items. But he doesn't execute the details well. Spielberg on the other hand... does." It's all speculation up to this point. But I for one... have been looking forward to this movie more than the SW prequels. Having Karen Allen back is awesome! John Hurt ain't so bad either. As for Shia... too early too tell. I think he's got potential from what I've seen and will wait to cast judgement 'til I see the movie - before throwing any stones. I can't wait to walk into the theater... and enjoy 2hrs of a fun ride - with characters and a world I grew up with. 5 MORE MONTHS!!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:05 p.m. CST

    DocP

    by skimn

    Or Animal Structure showing up to call Spielberg a hack....

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:06 p.m. CST

    I agree with Pauline Kael's rave of Temple of Doom

    by Tacom

    Fuck the haters I love TOD and Pauline Kael (who I normally disagree with) wrote a thousand word review praising the hell out of it. As dark and horror-filled as Temple of Doom is Kael was also right when she called it "one of the most sheerly pleasurable physical comedies ever made."

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:11 p.m. CST

    no logic to the jet pack sequence

    by occula

    the jet packs were incorrectly designed. they would have fried the legs of anybody using them. minority report is full of futuristic design flaws that compromise the entire movie's integrity even more than tommy girl's sharkface does. despite that, it's a fairly good time, but i SO disagree with the VF writer's comment that it 'hits harder' than either et or close encounters. those 2 films changed people's lives, whereas minority report is only a decent rental.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:13 p.m. CST

    sorry, a bit uppity there

    by occula

    i didn't mean to come off like such a toff. oh well, too late now!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Raiders Of The Lost Ark For ATARI 2600...

    by LaserPants

    is, was, and ever shall be the ne plus ultra of Indiana Jones related products and services. That is all.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:22 p.m. CST

    You never know.

    by mrfan

    I have a feeling that there will be some nazis' involved. Many escaped to South America after the war. Isn't that were some of the action is going to take place? Got to love nazis as villians.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Wasn't SHORT ROUND in Transformers?

    by Monkey_King

    I swear that's Jonathon Key Quan sitting next to the tech nerds(including the Aussie hottie) in a few scenes.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:29 p.m. CST

    I've got a fever....

    by Darth Macchio

    And the cure is more Wilhelm screams.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Maybe Allen aging well...

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    Is gonna get used as a twist that she is actually an alien. THAT would make my head explode.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Lucas Sounds Perceptive to Me

    by Floating Egg

    The article Keys to the Kingdom draws from two individual interviews with Lucas and Spielberg, so I decided to check out both of them. Reading the Q&A with Lucas clarifies where he's coming from, though I wasn't disturbed like many of you were by the comments that were included in the linked article. I don't think there's anything outlandish about what he's saying about fans and critics. Lucas has always been cynical. Read some older interviews with the guy. He’s always been suspicious of critics and with good reason, as the original trilogy was frequently panned. As far as the fans go, if he visits communities like AICN, I’m not surprised that he thinks people hate the movie before it’s even out because there’s a lot of negativity swirling around here. Most people, thankfully, aren’t like that, so I think he’s confusing online banter with the mainstream audience.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:34 p.m. CST

    occula

    by skimn

    What I was referring to was not the logic in the jetpacks themselves, but Spielberg's staging of the sequence. His camera is always where it needs to be to get the most impact and to relay visual information clearly (unlike say a Mr. Bay).

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Yay! Commies!

    by Larry of Arabia

    I've missed evil stereotypical commie badasses. They are awesome villains. (note to self: must get moose and squirrel.)

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Spielberg/ John Williams/ Harrison Ford

    by The Ghost of Marcus Brody

    That's all you need to know why this movie will be awesome. Lucas is a good storyteller, Spielberg is a better filmmaker. Let them do their thing. Forget about the cons of the movie and in May just sit back and enjoy another great adventure damn it.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:43 p.m. CST

    oh, i know...

    by occula

    i was just being snippy. :) i actually teach a production design class and use minority report as an example of seriously flawed design, despite the fact that spielberg put like 7 geniuses in a hotel room for a week and had them make up as much awesome shit as they could to use in his movie. it just makes me aggro when i think of the waste. a friend of mine from school designed the bikes that made it into a half-a-second shot and were essentially a waste of several million dollars. that's million, as in million. yep. spielberg is usually very careful about storyboarding etc. to prep but sometimes the poor planning just kills me.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Occula

    by skimn

    I heard about the "futurists" employed and perhaps it became a case of one-upmanship when 7 genuises get together to brainstorm. You've got me curious tho, I know the design idea behind Blade Runner seemed viable for the future it depicted. Any examples of "futures" that you use in your class?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 5:57 p.m. CST

    Meant to add

    by skimn

    ...that work...

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:04 p.m. CST

    WEare GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!

    by Han Cholo

    That was the most hilarious scene in all the Indy movies, second is where Indy gets hit with the mirror.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:09 p.m. CST

    wot a nice question

    by occula

    thanks for asking. larry paull - who did blade runner - was a teacher of mine (a very bitter man) and said that a great deal of the decisions made for the futureworld visuals of blade runner were purely financial. that, of course, happens a lot, and often the most enduring images are the result of a challenge, not because you've got a giant budget and can do whatever you want. of course there was a source text for the film but it was really ridley who brought the visual development to where it ended up. i love to point out the 'future' in star wars 1(because, no matter what the title crawl says about 'a long time ago', it's still using futuristic elements) as an overblown design exercise that has nothing to do with the technology - in fact, the art nouveau movement rose as a backlash against industrialization, so the design in the film is utterly ironic and unintentionally silly. the design in 'ai' is actually much better than minority report, only because there are fewer holes; although one could argue the whole nanotechnology thing as preposterous, it's still a more viable futuristic idea than most generic flying spaceships that shoot fire out their backsides. have you got any faves of your own?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:18 p.m. CST

    I'd have to stick with Blade Runner,

    by skimn

    perhaps because its fresh in my mind from the new discs. Although, when you think of it, there would be a lot of fried Los Angelenos, what with those several thousand pound police vehicles taking off with a "puff of smoke". I did just see Things To Come on TCM, and marvelled at Menzies' work. The Raymond Massey airsuit, though impractical, looks so cool.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:34 p.m. CST

    the granddaddy of production design

    by occula

    menzies of course being the first guy to actually be called a 'production designer,' because he was such a supergenius that he handled every minute detail of the design in 'gone with the wind.'i'm gonna make my kids watch 'things to come'! brilliant suggestion.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Maguffin rocked in Superbad

    by Captain Internet Sellout

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Bring It On Dr. Jones...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    I don't know about you guys but when I saw the poster for this the other day, i got chills. I love the expression on Indys' face. It's like: "Hey, remember me? You guys ready to rock one more time?" Well, hells yeah Dr. Jones! Crack that fuckin whip!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:46 p.m. CST

    Things To Come

    by seniorspeilbergio

    Yeah dude, I love the futuristic-looking Bi-plane in that. And Ralph Richardson playing the pseudo Mad Max baddie, The Boss.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:49 p.m. CST

    As far as future designers...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    I think Syd Mead is still the king although I love Stephan Martiniere's book covers and film design work. I think Syd is ACTUALLY DESIGNING THE FUTURE. I see his designs in the real world more and more each day.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Occula...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    could you give a few examples of the design flaws in Minority Report as opposed to Blade Runner and AI? I'm very interested in this subject. Had my first long discussion with a PD a few weeks ago. Fascinating stuff.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:56 p.m. CST

    syd is a tricksy old poufter

    by occula

    he stopped calling himself a designer long ago; now he's just a 'futurist.' he is indeed beyond skilled although he WAS one of the 7 people in the room for 'minority report', so we ought to throw wet spaghetti at him for that.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 6:58 p.m. CST

    "Cate Blanchett in dominatrix mode"

    by Iowa Snot Client

    Yes please.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 7 p.m. CST

    Given the shit we're served up during recent summers

    by kwisatzhaderach

    I can't believe people on here are bitching about a new Indiana Jones film.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 7:07 p.m. CST

    I can't blame Lucas for being bitter...

    by Racer Z

    considering most fans and critics alike piss and moan and whine and throw a fit when he doesn't make his movies their way. I'm sick to death of all their crying too.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Racer Z

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Exactly.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 7:13 p.m. CST

    ah interesting, spielie!

    by occula

    the problems with minority report mainly stem from the whole idea of setting boundaries. like, we've got a system of catching criminals that's reliant on visions from a mutant, but we're still using a data storage format that's made of chipped plexiglas? anybody can drive a maglev car up the side of a building, but can't afford whatever technology would eliminate the need for eyeglasses? it's a very tricky line to walk, because often decisions get made for 'the greater good' (yes i'm quoting hot fuzz) and not because they're a)true to the source material or b)true to a genuine design construct. now, relating that to blade runner; i pick on minority report because it was a very flashy film with most of its visuals reliant on showy design elements. it wasn't made on a shoestring (even for the time) and there were no real challenges set to the filmmakers aside from maybe trying to come up with as much expensive shit to film as possible. blade runner is chock-a-block full of flaws, but we tend to forgive them because it's a cult film that's in our visual canon - and, of course, it was made at a time when certain kinds of visuals just weren't possible with the technology. the whole thing about the design of good science fiction is - just as with the story - it's always better if it's rooted in science instead of fiction. the construct ought to be complete for us to fully buy the world. there are always exceptions to this rule, but in general, a good designer should fight for what's true for the world rather than what simply looks good - i.e. 'metropolis' still resonates because its vision of the future is rooted in a reality. you won't always win, but at least you can keep your integrity!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Replace Shia LeBouf with

    by Dazzler69

    Justin Long for the same type of character except he is a better actor and funny. He was great in Die Hard 4.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Kate Blanchett is a scary woman

    by skywalkerfamily

    She scared me in those LOTR movies. She always looks as pale as a ghost.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:03 p.m. CST

    If you look closely, one of the buildings in Blade Runner

    by Han Cholo

    is made out of the Millennium Falcon model. I believe they also showed it in the making of disc. It looks as though we're headed in that direction in a real world sense as well, hence why it is such a powerful visual film. I must say that as a futurist, Syd Mead is a genius and yes if the future looks anything like Blade Runner, flying cars, replicants, and off-world colonies, that is the place I want to be. Either that or in the Star Wars universe.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Lucas has it wrong.

    by lutz

    A director can make a movie any way that he feels. People will still feel cheated if it doesn't bring anything new to what they were expecting in their head. The original Star Wars movies each bought something new to the table and built on the movie before above and beyond what anyone expected. The prequels lazily connected the dots the original trilogy set up and didn't go past anything I could have imagined being in those movies and didn't build their own niche either. They were also flaccid and not very enjoyable. I went into those movies with an open mind and I held off on my poor opinion until after ROTS was released. ROTS annoyed me because it basically got rid of any character arch's that had been built up over the past two movies and played connect the dots to the original movies instead. Which made the first two connect the dots movies as well. When people actually create the prequels in their head on par or better than Lucas it is a sign that something is average.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:13 p.m. CST

    Lucas is a genius

    by skywalkerfamily

    He created an "empire" of a movie saga that's still going today. Most 70s 80s movies are still wallowing in forgotten art houses.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:17 p.m. CST

    If that's true, I would think that

    by Bagheera

    the love child of Harrison Ford and Karen Allen would be a bit more good looking than that.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:19 p.m. CST

    sort of unrelated

    by occula

    since we were talking about futurism - just wanted to pass on that i literally just came across a brand-new blog that you dudes might like. i fucking hate blogs unless they're useful, and this one is kinda cool - it's io9.com, all about snazzy futuristic/sci fi/real science stuff, but with some real humor. it's edited by a girl, so don't hold it against me for pimping my own. :)

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Temple of Doom is sweet

    by Prossor

    Ford's best performance, he's most honed in the role here.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:52 p.m. CST

    IF you don't like the first trilogy you don't get star wars

    by Captain Internet Sellout

    The entire saga.. 1-6 is the equivalent of one movie script. There are three acts. The reason everyone loves the last 4 episodes is because that is the climax of the movie.. the best part of the story.. the reason people hate the prequel trilogy is because this is the set up of one big movie. It's like saying you don't like the first half of the movie because a lot of it is setup for the climax. The entire star wars saga is one giant art film. He is playing with the conventional movie form and experimenting with it.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:52 p.m. CST

    My obligatory Lucas opinion

    by jimmay

    Hamster Factor asked what director has as much contempt for their audience as Lucas, I respond what audience has as much contempt for their director. Lots of people, including me, rip on Michael Bay all the time (and love every second of it), but only the Lucas haters are willing, nay desperate, to wallow so low in histrionic hyperbole in their criticism. The tried and completely untrue "George Lucas raped my childhood" anthem that so many Lucas critics pitifully vomit on command every time his name is mentioned is more than enough reason for Lucas to die a very, very bitter man.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:54 p.m. CST

    THE PREQUEL TRILOGY IS AN ABORTION.

    by uss cygnus

    "Noooooooooooooo!!!!" "Obi Wan is holding me back!!" "Spinning's A Good Trick!" "Yousa say people gonna DIE?!?" ...The prosecution rests, your honor.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 8:57 p.m. CST

    USS cygnus

    by Captain Internet Sellout

    Have you watched a new hope before?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    USS Cygnus

    by Captain Internet Sellout

    Have you heard of Ewoks? "nub nub" ring a bell?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Captain internet sellout...

    by lutz

    So basically you are saying that the prequels didn't need to be made at all and are supporting my argument they are just fill in the story dot to dot. A poor set up ruins a movie. Read for example reviews of Alien Vs Predator 2. People say that they should have just got rid of the entire story set up and just got to the action. There you have your argument together with why people don't like the prequels.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:11 p.m. CST

    What these people don't get..

    by Captain Internet Sellout

    Is that to get a true payoff you need a set up.. without beauty there can be no ugliness... without a happy fun world to get trample don by the empire there is no impact.. without a good Anakin his turning to the dark side and his redemption has little impact. Anakin turning to the darkside wouldn't have the impact it did without the set up. If you don't like the concept of one giant move then don't watch it.. but don't use the jar jar excuse.. because there were Ewoks in in Jedi. The difference is you saw those when you were a kid.. which is the other problem.. this movie wasn't made for 30 year olds. These people that grew up with star wars expected it to grow up with them.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:12 p.m. CST

    The prequels did need to be made...

    by moondoggy2u

    Just made differently! ;)<p>For the most part, I think Attack of hte Clones and Revenge of the Sith were required for the Star Wars saga, but George should have found a way to turn anakin into vader without spoiling the vader revelation from empire strikes back. I dont quite know how (maybe showing Vader suddenly arrive after the "death" of annakin in the second or third movie)Lucas could/should have done it, but the secret of Vader should have been preserved. Yeah, I realize that everyone already knows, but for the sake of story continuity, the secret should have been preserved. Other than wooden acting from Portman (whom I consider miscast) and Hayden (cept for his angry stuff), I really did enjoy episodes 2 and 3. <p>The phantom menace, however, came off as masturbatory.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:33 p.m. CST

    The prequels didn't really need to be made

    by skywalkerfamily

    But I enjoyed them. They really did expand the first three movies. I enjoyed the new and old characters.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:36 p.m. CST

    Phantom menace? Prequels? Am I back in 1998?

    by wackybantha

    Isn't this talkback designated for a Shia lovefest, er, I mean, an INDY lovefest!!! INDY LOVEFEST!!! I MEANT INDY!! INDY!!!

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:37 p.m. CST

    The prequels sucked + took away from the originals

    by DARTH VOODOO

    The prequels are bad movies. I just pretend they don't exist.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:47 p.m. CST

    "my powers are 10 times greater than before!"

    by Prossor

    sayeth super sayian anakin

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:49 p.m. CST

    prequel premise sucks

    by Prossor

    look at the premise of the OT: space nazis vs. ragclad rebels on wornout planets. meanwhile prequels are rich guys vs. royal guys on glossy planets. even if the prequel execution was better the premise of the classics is still better.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 9:53 p.m. CST

    People complaining about the Wilhelm Scream?

    by Osmosis Jones

    Fuck that shit. I would be INFURIATED if the Wilhelm doesn't show up in Indy 4.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:15 p.m. CST

    prequel revelation

    by Staldo

    I am always up for a good prequel rant. The prequels are like a mosquito bite that never stops itching. But to say that they didn't bring anything new to the table? Palpatine basically hinted that he was responsible for Anakin's birth in ROTS through midochlorian manipulation. I know people like to have "HELL NO"-gasms when I bring this up, or say it was purposeful deception, but why would Lucas write that shit in? of all the pieces of information that could have been exchanged between those two characters, we got that. In other words, the entire skywalker lineage has been fucked about by Palpatine. I thought that was pretty huge.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:21 p.m. CST

    He's an OLD MAN! Geesh all of them

    by hatespeech

    gross.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:39 p.m. CST

    occula

    by LarryTheCableGuy

    i know that eagle kaw. haha! watch the movie 'One Tough Bastard' and you'll hear it in the first 1 minutes. like 10 times. they had it as a sound fx at my cheesy college radio station. it was my favorite.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:40 p.m. CST

    by Floating Egg

    I imagine that Lucas probably makes movies for himself first and his audience second. Judging by his own satisfaction and the financial success of his films he's done a decent job of pleasing both parties. Can the Star Wars prequels still be considered bad films in light of this point? Without getting into a discussion of aesthetics, this seems to be greatly dependent on a number of complex factors that most people don't seem to take into consideration when they offer their opinion of a movie. To say that there's something absolute regarding value judgments about movies has little support as far as I'm concerned. If you do or do not like the prequels, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion, but when you stand up and stick out your chest, offering your opinion as if it's fact, then it's no wonder that these kinds of discussions keep repeating themselves without resolution.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:41 p.m. CST

    staldo

    by moondoggy2u

    That brings about the other problem I had with ROTS. If that is true, then Lucas fails to explain the origin of "the prophecy." On the other hand, if the prophecy is false, Lucas never explains the reasons for the deception. Personally, I think Lucas intended to unveil "Anakin, I am your father," but realized that, due to his misuse of time in episodes 1 and 2, there was no time to discuss the prophecy's origins and misinterpratation and so he left the revelation as "vague and debatable." That way, no need to explain, is there, and thus, no need to write/film it. Like I have said for a long time, Lucas wasted a lot of time in Phantom Menace and Attack by focusing on pointless asides, ship landings, and a few overly long action pieces. If he had practiced the same discipline he used in Revenge, the prequel trilogy would have been a LOT better, in my opinion.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Oh, and Revenge had one HUGE pointless aside.

    by moondoggy2u

    *ahem* the wookie homeworld and the weird world that Grevious was on. Why waste time by sepparating Yoda and Obi-wan when Lucas could have just combined the plot points on the wookie homeworld. You wouldn't even have to change the plot AT ALL. Yoda and obi-wan go to wookie planet to grab grevious and prevent wookie subjugation, and thats it: nothing changes. Yoda deals with army side while Obi takes out grevious. Now, if someone like me can see something that plainly obvious, how come Lucas, with all his vaunted years of story planning, failed to see? How could you not streamline something so obviously easy to streamline? Thats just one example of a countless other editorial decisions that should have been made. Lucas being Lucas, however, didnt even bother with an editor.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 10:50 p.m. CST

    People say the SW prequels are crap

    by skywalkerfamily

    But the SW EU has set SW back forty years.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:20 p.m. CST

    hatespeech

    by Staldo

    I just got the joke. thanks

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:25 p.m. CST

    MUTT WILLIAMS

    by wadi77

    Not Mutt Jones. <p>Named after the great composer John Williams.<p>I just can't wait for this movie.

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:47 p.m. CST

    The PT didn't bring anything new? Really?

    by deathbird

    Anakin sired by the Sith...the Clone Wars engineered by Palpatine...the Jedi Order a thoroughly corrupt institution deserving of destruction...Luke being the spiritual heir to his mother ("There is good in him..."). Did you know this stuff in '98? Are you a precog or something?

  • Jan. 2, 2008, 11:52 p.m. CST

    I thought it was important

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    that Chewbacca was a walking carpet of some importance rather than just Han solo's tagalong bitch. Of course I'm no one important...just your creator.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:02 a.m. CST

    The Clone Wars is the best thing about the

    by skywalkerfamily

    prequel movies. Also, the SW Prequel EU is better written than the SW OT EU because the Prequels do have a stronger story.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:20 a.m. CST

    the EU

    by Staldo

    the two worst parts of the EU are as follows: The Yuuzshan Vong or however you pronounce it. They're a species from another galaxy and they are...pretty much your run of the mill Star Wars villains. they have skull faces! ooh, they must be bad! At some point it gets tiring to kill cloned emperors and sith remnants, so this is what they came up with. And these clowns killed Chewie. Now his son from the holiday special fills in for him in the fuzzball department. Yeah, at least they're consistent.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:46 a.m. CST

    I stopped reading the EU after Chewie died

    by skywalkerfamily

    The SW authors tried to Trek up the SW books and bring in lame alien races and killing of main characters.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:15 a.m. CST

    What's interesting about the prequels...

    by darthvedder81

    ...is that despite how "forgettable" some of you say they were here we are still talking about them nearly 3 years after the last one. That has to count for something. Are any of you still taking about "Doom" or "Alien Vs. Predator"? I'm a little wary of the "UFO" subplot but we still don't know exactly how that plays into the thing. Having aliens walking around with Indy might be hard to swallow but it may not be anything like that at all. Really though I'm up for anything as long as it's a good Indy picture and that means 1) 2 or 3 show stopping action scenes 2) plenty of good humor and classic Indy quipping 3) a great Johnny Williams score 4) enough heart for us to care about what happens to the hero.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:35 a.m. CST

    Racer Z, if by their way you mean...

    by poeticwarriorII

    making movies with a solid plot that fit within the confines of an already established time line with good actors playing interesting sympathetic characters and kickass special effects then yes. he certainly didn't make it "their way".

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:36 a.m. CST

    darthvedder81

    by poeticwarriorII

    It does count for something alright. It counts for how fucking bad they turned out to be given what had come before. The prequels were garbage so people are gonna talk about it.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:13 a.m. CST

    MAYBE SHIA WILL DO THE WILHELM SCREAM?

    by BringingSexyBack

    When he gets bitch-slapped by Cate Blanchett? Awesome!!!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:22 a.m. CST

    Don´t say "haters"

    by CuervoJones

    Say "virgins". You know you are.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:55 a.m. CST

    I hope this doesn't suck like TEMPLE OF DOOM

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    *pressingthumbs*

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:15 a.m. CST

    Occula...

    by metaluna

    I think you might find that Spielberg is more interested in the story rather than showing off 'the right design' or whatever. If he feels like sacrificing a shot that might have cost a million bucks, that's his call. Last time I looked, he didn't make films for designers to cream over. And before you come back, I know a thing or two about production design too. Also, I doubt they're doing this for their retirement fund, folks. I think they're rich enough. Seriously looking forward to this come May ;)

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:21 a.m. CST

    you mean doesn't suck like LAST CRUSADE

    by Prossor

    *twirlingthumbs*

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:25 a.m. CST

    mmm count me in

    by virtual_ninja

    Iam also not completly sold on the idea of shia lebarf bieng in a indy flick, but if the berg thinks this kids got what it takes then ial give him a chance. to be hones iam more worried about lucas bieng involved, if done right the alien plot line could work out, but anything lucas touches turns to poooo. anywayz ial probly be the first guy in line when the movie comes out

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:45 a.m. CST

    Commies and Aliens and LeBoeuf! Oh, my!

    by TallBoy66

    You can only dig out religious artifacts so much, bring on the little green men!!!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:58 a.m. CST

    Lucas's comments on Plotting. He's said it before.

    by NoDiggity

    For the original Raiders he said that he was the on who pulled the whole story togther, made it make logical sense, that Spielberg and the others were coming up with cool stuff they wanted in the movie, but that Lucas was the one constructing a story that made logical sense, while including those elements. It may be true that that's his contribtion, because in the Prequelas, as someone pointed out, all he managed to do was "connect the dots" to the original films.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:18 a.m. CST

    I have to wonder if the fact that Lucas is the creator

    by Han Cholo

    Of Indy if it will have a big backlash like Star Wars because the fans are ready to sacrifice Lucas to the sci-fi gods already. I'm not too keen on the sci-fi direction this movie's taking either because it takes away from the divine stuff that we saw in the last three and throws it out the window. Couple that with the uninspired casting of Shia, who's no doubt reading the talkbacks and probably posting as someone who says 'FUCK SHIA!!' as their heading. I can't say I'm truly excited like I was the other Indy's but I loveed all the Star Wars films despite the prequel's weaknesses so I'm just hoping Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford hit this one out of the park. Anything less than Last Crusade would just be like National Treasure. What a shit movie that was. I lost respect for Helen Mirren big time for that.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:19 a.m. CST

    i've known about "the scream" since 97, testie

    by ironic_name

    so there, and my brother dated cate's deaf housemate, who was also a struggling actor at the time.<P>eat my fame-by-association!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:23 a.m. CST

    i support prossor on this one!

    by ironic_name

    short round!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:24 a.m. CST

    actually..

    by ironic_name

    i think my brother dated her earlier, maybe 94.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:33 a.m. CST

    Temple of Doom

    by kwisatzhaderach

    is so much better than Last Crusade it hurts.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:37 a.m. CST

    Continued...

    by lutz

    Saying that there is no impact in the original trilogy without the prequels to act as a foil is just dumb. What about the father son/daughter relationship to make Vader's turn to the force and redemption have an emotional resonance? Or the rebel alliance, Obi-Won Kenobi element to contrast the big evil empire? Did people somehow forget that they blew up Princess Leia's home planet? That has a huge impact - much more than anything established in the prequels. The prequel trilogy adds details to a plot structure we already knew connecting it dot by dot as it was laid out in the original movies but then fails to go further and carve its own niche - which good movies should do. Compare the prequels to something like The Last Emperor. That movie does everything that this trilogy did. It shows the rise and fall of one man, his relationships and the rise and fall of a government. It is also detailed, compelling with interesting characters and goes for half the running time of the three movie combined. A good director writer can take you on that journey.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 5:05 a.m. CST

    Is Bai ling in this ?

    by TimMighty

    ...yeah...is she ?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 5:42 a.m. CST

    re TPM and AOTC

    by DocPazuzu

    I used to think that TPM was the worst of the prequels but additional viewings over the years have caused me to change my opinion. Weirdly enough, and even with all its weaknesses, I find TPM to be the prequel that most feels like a Star Wars movie, which admittedly, doesn't mean it feels anything like any of the OT movies. AOTC, on the other hand, is virtually unwatchable. It has the worst acting in all six movies (along with ROTJ), the lamest "plot" and the most uninspired set pieces.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 5:49 a.m. CST

    The only good thing...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...about AOTC is the grand "Across The Stars" love theme by Williams. <p> I would have listed Yoda's lightsaberism, but since we were cheated out of a decisive smackdown against Dooku it doesn't count.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 5:54 a.m. CST

    The biggest SW disappointment...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...for me is ROTJ. ESB is certainly a tough act to follow, but the overall lackluster feel of ROTJ, the wretchedly staged action (except the space battle, which was ace), the terrible acting and the lurching pace felt half-baked.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:11 a.m. CST

    Can we get back to Indy please?

    by IndiAbbey Jones

    Enough of the SW prequel debate! We have 5 months till the return of cinemas greatest action hero! I have reservations too about the Alien-angle of this but c'mon!! It's a NEW fucking Indiana Jones !!!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:11 a.m. CST

    At least lucas agrees that IJ:TLC was feeble

    by Reelheed

    Thats the first thing to actually get me a little excited by this production.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:15 a.m. CST

    Nah...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...the worst thing about AOTC was Anakin and Padme's dinner - eating a pear with a fucking knife and fork! And the Force! <p> Oh, and every time Anakin said "m'lady".

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:34 a.m. CST

    AOTC.

    by CatVutt

    Really is unwatchable. The whole trip to Naboo should be excised, the Droid Factory thing turns the whole fucking thing into a cartoon, and the completely illogical way the Jedi and the Republic simply accept that them there clones is theirs is truly mind-numbing, when fucking Jango Fett is standing there with Dooku and the Geonosians is hilarious. But I've always maintained Jedi's really aren't the brightest bulbs in the galaxy anyway, so I can kinda overlook that.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:36 a.m. CST

    DARTH VADER SCREAMS:NOOOOOOOOOO!

    by travis-dane

    That sums up the STAR(GEORGE LUCAS NEEDS MORE MONEY)WARS prequels.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:39 a.m. CST

    agreed IndiAbbey....

    by just pillow talk

    I think that the Alien-angle can still work, after all, I find it no less plausible with what transpired in the first three: ark melting faces, removal of hearts, wicked old knight/grail.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:41 a.m. CST

    pillow talk

    by IndiAbbey Jones

    Finally! Someone on my wavelength! I am suspicious of the Alien angle but believe that Spielberg has enough respect for this character that he wont fuck it up - the inclusion of the Ark Warehouse is encouraging for me - a nice link to the start of the series and I for one would welcome a ARK V SKULL (God V Science)bit at the end....

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:51 a.m. CST

    Actually, the Indy in Temple of Doom

    by Abominable Snowcone

    was a bit off from Raiders. Lines like "for fortune and glory" seemed really non-Indy to me. We all know he's an "obtainer of rare antiquities" because he knows these items "belong in a museum," not because he's looking to get rich or famous from his exploits. If that were the case, he WOULD be rich and famous and not an aging prof at Marshall College. Also, although I didn't mind it, I thought the comments Indy made to Willie like "doll" and "sweetheart" were a bit condescending for Indy, even if such phrases would have been of their time and Willie was annoying enough to deserve such language. I guess what I'm saying is that in "Doom" it felt like Ford was told (or the script dictated) to paint the character using broader strokes instead of less refined touches. Shit, if I had to pick a Jones motto, it would be "It belongs in a museum!"

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Aliens, why'd it have to be aliens?

    by Abominable Snowcone

    The extraterrestrial angle could work so long as they keep their distance. In other words--no contact of the third kind. No getting on spaceships, no chatting with little green men over tea, and definitely no teaming up with skinny albino aliens for laughs (a la Jar Jar). Keep it at arm's length, keep some mystique, and maintain some credibility. Give us a reason to think, yeah, it could happen this way, and we'll stay with you. Of course, if the aliens want to give Fascist Blanchett an anal probe, I could not deny them that.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Kate's kinda hot in that pic

    by Lou Stools

    But for some reason I suspect she's got a huge thatch down there. I bet her nude profile looks like my Grandfather's 20 year old toothbrush.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Abominable Snowcone

    by IndiAbbey Jones

    I was took it as the Indy in Temple - which is before Raiders - WAS in it for the money but the experience with the kids in the mines made him the guy in Raiders

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Abom, same distance as to what was presented

    by just pillow talk

    in the first three movies? Again, I think that suspension of belief (for me) will be the same, whether its Aliens or God related. <p>I do agree with you though, about not wanting them to have green tea with green men. I'm sure they could do it in a way where they provide big hints of something "else" out there.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:06 a.m. CST

    re bush

    by DocPazuzu

    I doubt Blanchett can match the truly heroic bush Karen Allen sports in Raiders which is made visible when her dress is plastered against her bod on the windy deck of Katanga's ship. <p> Wonder if they CGI'd that bit out on the DVD? Must check when I get home.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Ford's Charisma

    by lagomorph

    Are we forgetting a little film called Hollywood Homicide? I thought he was pretty damn charismatic in that one, even if he was playing a douchebag. I need to confess... I kind of love that movie.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:41 a.m. CST

    lagomorph

    by IndiAbbey Jones

    Stopping the car to pull out the driver and getting shoved away....Screaming at that girl as he steals her bike....hitting the taxi door and flipping....fighting the old woman for the cab...priceless!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:49 a.m. CST

    why not enjoy something new for NEW YEAR?

    by kily2007

    Hey! so nice discussion , BUT NEW YEAR is coming, how to celetrate the wonderful days? you love to try something new? http://interracialsingleonline.com you will be surprised there...

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:54 a.m. CST

    Yes, very surprised....

    by Lou Stools

    Lot of girl of many color...make boom boom long time. You likey.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 7:57 a.m. CST

    "Celetrate" this...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...you spamming bitch.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 8:06 a.m. CST

    why not enjoy something new for NEW YEAR?

    by kily2007

    Hey! so nice discussion , BUT NEW YEAR is coming, how to celetrate the wonderful days? you love to try something new? http://interracialsingleonline.com you will be surprised there...

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Indiana Jones and the hunt for Crossovers

    by couP

    no need to go the sci-fi route. who's he gonna bump into? Chewy? Starscream? E.T.? *sigh*

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 8:19 a.m. CST

    ring me when there is a trailer

    by Holgi65

    I wonder if anyone has a clue when there will be a first trailer... hopefully I see it first in a theater - but prolly not.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 8:19 a.m. CST

    Is kily2007...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...going to be the "Gallerie Chappe" of 2008? Remember that spamtard?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST

    That kily2007 SHIT is in almost anyTB right now

    by travis-dane

    What the hell?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Why the Rambo silence, btw?

    by DocPazuzu

    Surely loads of spy reports should be coming in by now...

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:27 a.m. CST

    I really don't think Lucas IS a good Storyteller.

    by NoDiggity

    The story I told upstream,where Lucas goes on about how HE put the story to Raiders together (echoed with his quote from Vainty Fair about throwing a puppy on a highway) is just Lucas putting everyone down except himself. He has no idea how to tell a story. Without creative input from others he's helpless, and has nothing to "pull together" with his perfectionist detail-obsessing. I guarantee that Lucas has fucked with the script out of ego-driven desire to brand it as his own, and the quote from Spielberg, about how he usually takes 5 passes through editing, but only took 2 ... WTF? Is that supposed to mean this film is extra good because it only needed 2? Or that it's beyond saving? I suspect the latter. I suspect Spielberg's perfuctory 2 passes means he's washing his hands of the mess.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Indy must NOT care about losing his fedora

    by just pillow talk

    then Nodiggity will piss himself with glee.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, I'm not "determined" about anything.

    by NoDiggity

    I'm just seeing bad signs. And I'm not the only one. Bad Sign Number One has always been George Lucas involved in the script in the initial stages. This isn't an "arbitrary" reason. Number 2, Spielberg not taking time to edit the thing (matched by lack of care in shooting the thing? Very likely) is another huge warning sign. Spielberg has been known to rush out films lately (you'll see actors marvelling at his "skill" in shooting everything in one take, but it which actually sounds like he doesn't give a fuck ... as with War of the Worlds). These are old men, who are tired, and, let's face it, not particularly bright. And they've just made a new Indy movie, which, according to the article, they've resorted to imitating the successful elements of as much as they can, in lieu of actual creativity. It's nice that the cinematography will resemble the original raiders, but I dread the dialogue and plot resembling it in an uncreative way as well.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:39 a.m. CST

    Oh, and Lost Jarve, what will it take for me to think the movie'

    by NoDiggity

    It has to be fucking good, that's it. But, honestly, since the motivation to create this film was to make one last cash in on nostalgia, and perhaps try to boost Shia's career, there isn't much hope of that.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:40 a.m. CST

    story? who fucking cares

    by slappylawls

    Fucking Lucas and Spielberg have made billions... BILLIONS off movies & merch

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:41 a.m. CST

    "let's face it, not particularly bright"

    by DocPazuzu

    At least they didn't say: <p> "Newt is Jones." <p> or: <p> "I'm afraid Indy 4 will be too pulpy."

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Quit now, NoDiggity...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...while you can. You know how this usually ends.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Pazuzu, as you know ...

    by NoDiggity

    My "pulpy" comment referred to the Cold War, and how 1930's pulpiness doesn't mix well with material closer to our time, historically. Demonizing Nazis works for most of us, Demonizing Russians ... it ought to make one wince a little, in this post-cold-war world, don't you think?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    It's not demonizing Russians...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...any more than Raiders demonized Germans. The films demonize Nazis and Soviet Communists. I can get behind that.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Damn you, ludmir88...

    by idahomer

    My vote is for McG regarding T4.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:48 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, why do you think either one is "bright"?

    by NoDiggity

    Neither one seems to have much control over whether or not their films are shite or not. Spielberg messes less with his writers than Lucas does, but when he does mess the result is usually idiotic.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, I'm talking about Echoing Dialogue

    by NoDiggity

    Now, we haven't seen any evidence of this yet, so let's keep our fingers crossed. But if dialogue that is designed to remind us of Raiders LINES (not just the style of dialogue) appears, the movie is going to be dead to me. Lines like "It's not the mileage, it's the years", twisting old lines, or forcing old lines to fit into the new story. Like those endless Star Wars novels where people keep saying "I've got a bad feeling about this" over and over, or "Snarfy Smelling Paaka Butcher".

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Jarv, are we a fan of good movies or Lucas and Spielberg?

    by NoDiggity

    Is that the game? It's Lucas and Spielberg, and so it's GOT to be good? What about WILLOW? What about 1941? What about frigging Temple of Doom? Attack of the Clones? Phantom Menace? Now take Lucas's ego and plant it in the middle of Spielberg's apathetic "If it doesn't relate to the Holocaust and Israel, who cares" attitude, and what have you got? A recipe for disaster, that's what.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, as I pointed out in another talkback ...

    by NoDiggity

    ... although we don't have any evidence of plagiarized lines, we already have signs of plagiaraized plot points (Indy vs. Soviets instead of Indy vs. Nazis; Indy vs. an unethical rival archaeologist) and that one picture of Indy and Shia in some cave with cobwebs on Indy's hat (to make sure an iconic moment is inserted). So, hopefully those signs don't extend to the dialogue, but what would your guess be on that?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Oh, and regarding a character talking "appropriately".

    by NoDiggity

    When the first movie came out, what made the character talk "appropriately" were the lines that came out of his mouth in that film, not looking back at previous films to see if his lines were "appropriate". And I really do wish that they had gone the extra mile and tried to figure out what kind of hats and clothes Indy would wear in the 50's, not the old crap he kept in a chest.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Lucas more stupid than Spielberg.

    by NoDiggity

    Or do you think "Revenge of the Jedi" or the prequels are the works of a genius?<br><br> Perhaps you weren't paying attention to the background to "Saving Private Ryan", but when I hear that Spielberg originally intended it to just be a "kick ass WWII flick for my dad" and had to be convinced to use the D-Day sequence by the writer, and did such shoddy research that the anti-landing-barriers on the beach were placed BACKWARDS, then yeah, Spielberg is a stupid and sloppy man.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:15 a.m. CST

    I undestand, Lost Jarv ...

    by NoDiggity

    ... you are perfectly happy with Indiana Jones regurgitated bullshit. You don't want to see a new, interesting film. Just Indiana Jonesisms, one after another, so you and your geek buddies can go "Yeah!" every time you recognize an easy reference to the original film(s). I wonder if you would have liked the first movie at all, since it didn' remind you of anything you'd seen before, and you couldn't know it was good because it didn't remind of anything previously.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:15 a.m. CST

    NoDiggity, how do you think Indy should act?

    by just pillow talk

    What kind of adventures should he go on, if not archaeological ones? Should there not be any "villains" in this one then if you think the Soviets and the Nazis are one and the same?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:21 a.m. CST

    You know, the original RAIDERS will be there...

    by NoDiggity

    ... you can go back and watch it, if you like. Revisit it if you like. Why do it by "revisiting" via a poor imitation? How does that honor the original film, the original character, who we loved because he was NOT a frigging retread? I guess it's true. There is really no way a movie starring a geriatric Ford could believably continue the adventures of Jones. But neither of the two sequels to RAIDERS managed to do that either.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:22 a.m. CST

    INDIANA JONES AND THE TRIP TO BABIES R US

    by BringingSexyBack

    Indy needs to pick up more diapers for Shia. The adventure begins.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:22 a.m. CST

    This year's Little Miss Juno

    by messi

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:23 a.m. CST

    So, Lost Jarv, you are determined to enjoy this No Matter What ?

    by NoDiggity

    Not because it's a good movie, but so you can be part of the Huge Crowd of Nostalgic Indy Fans?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:24 a.m. CST

    NoDiggity

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Hey will you put up your review for Indy 4? Sounds like you've already seen it. Now suck my noodly appendage.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Didn't Philip Kaufman.....

    by Samuel Fulmer

    choose the ark as the historic artifact for Raiders, not Lucas??? That's why he has a co-story credit.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Is that true about Kaufman choosing the Ark?

    by NoDiggity

    Because that makes sense, since we've been hearing so much about Lucas choosing the "mcGuffin" of this movie. It sounds like Lucas was jealous of Kaufman's contribution and has to make sure that HE makes a similar contribution to this movie. Because it has to be all about Lucas doing everything.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Kaufman info is from Wiki and IMDB

    by Samuel Fulmer

    So take it for what it's worth. It's been a while since I watched the documentary on the Indy DVDs, but I'm preaty sure they say it on there too. It makes sense, because why else would Kaufman have a co-story credit. I do think it's odd in this Vanity Fair article that Lucas says he picks out the "Mcguffins" for all of the films. Either his memory is going (which would explain all the continuity problems the prequel SW films have with the real ones), or he's just rewriting history.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:38 a.m. CST

    Jarv

    by NoDiggity

    Lucas and Spielberg are both Stupid, Yes. I'm pretty sure I said that already. Sequels can also be "remakes" of the plot of the films they are sequels too. I hope that isn't too complicated for you. I'm happy with people being excited about another film about a character they like, but I'm not happy if all they want is the original film chewed up and regurgitated for them. If they are happy about that, they are idiots, and I don't want to know them. (ALIENS fans). As for how Indy shoud behave? He shouldn't even be Indy, he should be some other character, with different quirks, having his own adventure. Indy was himself only in the first film. This film shouldn't exist. But I don't think Temple of Doom should have been made either, because it shit all over the quality of the original.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:41 a.m. CST

    I like how Spielberg and Lucas always rag..

    by Samuel Fulmer

    on Temple of Doom, when it's a lot better than crap like the Prequels/Radioland Murders/Howard The Duck/Amistad/Hook/Always/etc..... And let's face it, it's better than Last Crusade. Last Crusade is okay, but it's just a rehash of Raiders, kind of like Jedi is a rehash of Star Wars.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Samuel, Lucas always "rewrites history"

    by NoDiggity

    He's constantly retelling how HE made the Star Wars movies, and it gets to the point where it almost seems like he thinks he did it all by himself. No artists, no co-writers, nothing but him and his brilliance behind everything. He even claimed, in one video I saw, to have instructed John Williams as to what kind of music to score the film with, with a temporary music track that Lucas had put together to guide Williams. None of William's interviews have ever mentioned Lucas ever doing this.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Temple of Doom is better than Crusade.

    by NoDiggity

    At least I remember Temple of Doom.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST

    holy shit...not the Aliens reference again

    by just pillow talk

    "As for how Indy shoud behave? He shouldn't even be Indy, he should be some other character, with different quirks, having his own adventure." <p>Huh?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:49 a.m. CST

    didn't you already go over Alien vs. Aliens with him?

    by just pillow talk

    Or was that Doc P?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST

    the aliens

    by Staldo

    the aliens should be giant, intelligent snakes, like a Robert E. Howard story. Everything would come full circle

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:57 a.m. CST

    Let me explain something, Jarv, about Sequels.

    by NoDiggity

    It takes more than simply occurring later in time to make them NOT "remakes" as well as sequels. But sequels can also be remakes. Only a retard would wilfully insist on not understanding that.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:05 a.m. CST

    You are fucking retard, Jarv.

    by NoDiggity

    Who said sequels are automatically remakes? Not me.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, if you can't see ALIENS as a remake of ALIEN

    by NoDiggity

    then you are too stupid to understand what a remake is. Is it a sequel? Yes. Is it also a remake? Yes. Why is it a remake? Because it reuses all the plot points and characters, while making superficial changes to disguise it and make it seem more "sequelly". And if you didn't bother to read the other talkback, I'm not rehashing the points again.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Oh, and I've never called Indy 4 a "straight remake"

    by NoDiggity

    Just as I've not called ALIENS a "straight remake". ALIENS was a twisty, sneaky, fiddly remake. INDY 4, I would guess, is probably uncreative as regards it's plotting as well.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:27 a.m. CST

    Lucas the Moron's definition of "mcGuffin"

    by NoDiggity

    Wikipedia points out that Lucas invented his own meaning for the word "McGuffin" which is totally different from the way everyone else defines it. a "McGuffin" is an object that everyone is after, but the importance of which fades as the film goes on. An example of a "McGuffin" would be the "rabbit's foot" from Mission Impossible 3. Lucas called r2d2 a "McGuffin" in the original STAR WARS. R2D2 is not a "McGuffin" and neither are the plans he carries, since those plans are vital to the story, and central to the struggle between the heroes and villains, and essential to the climax. Lucas doesn't even know what a "McGuffin" is. That's why he calls the Ark a "McGuffin", by which he seems to mean "Something valuable that people fight over in a story". He's a retard.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:27 a.m. CST

    INDIANA JONES AND THE SKULL OF CHUCK E. CHEESES

    by BringingSexyBack

    Russians, I mean Soviet Commies, storm Chuck E. Cheeses during Shia's birthday party. <p> They picked the wrong day to storm.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:37 a.m. CST

    MAYBE HE WAS TALKING ABOUT MCMUFFINS

    by BringingSexyBack

    He's definitely a man who goes for McDonald's, as evidenced by the bearded 3rd chin.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Ahhhh... It was NoDiggity

    by Frijole

    that wouldn't shut the fuck up about Aliens being a retread of Alien, with only superficial changes. Not that popular opinion is the touchstone of fact, but YOU ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PERSON ON THE PLANET TO THINK THAT. And yes, as has been said before- you are retarded.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:23 p.m. CST

    as someone in the Mist talkback said...

    by just pillow talk

    He's very similar to M-O-M. I wouldn't call him a straight remake, but more of a twisty, sneaky, fiddly remake of M-O-M. Not quite as many spelling errors.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST

    Indiana Jones And The Quest For Viagra

    by That 70s Venom

    Ravenwood: "Oh Indy, are you feeling kinky?" Indy: "Ummm... bitch, I'm like 70. Spontaneity is out the window."

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:35 p.m. CST

    BAHAHAH 'little miss juno'

    by occula

    that was brillz. ok this TB has kind of degenerated into something like cats in heat yowling, but i have to just reply to that dude above who got pissy at me. nice effort but you should have come in when the dialogue about design was actually happening, because then you might have understood better what we were getting at. nobody said spielberg doesn't give a shit about design. and, ps, if you are a production designer or - er - know something about it, as you say, then you would know that the production designer's always one of the first people in the room and that the film's design is always integral to the storytelling. otherwise, my dear, you're just doing black box theatre. now it's time for an egg mcguffin! brillz.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Occula, I'm saying Spielberg cares about Design ...

    by NoDiggity

    ... in THIS movie only because he's trying to imitate a past success, not for any personal artistic reason. I kinda like the first movie, so I appreciate an attempt to make it LOOK similar, but if there isn't a genuine love of story (as in the first one) won't that attention to "design" ring hollow? Sure, it's better than having it filmed with a bleached out look like "Minority Report" with Shaky Cam, but if it's "look" is all repetitions of the sets and locales of the first movie .... it's just going to disappoint in it's uncreativity.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 12:55 p.m. CST

    samuelfulmer

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I think you have a point about Crusade being a Raiders retread, and Jedi borrowing from Star Wars.<p> While I loved "Doom" when it came out, I don't think the darkness of it has aged well, and the opening gambit and mine car chase seem a bit over-the-top even for Indy standards. Not to mention the whole dinner gross-out session at Pangkot Palace. The set pieces and stunts in Raiders may have seemed excessive, but they were all fairly short and well-contained. The longest in length was surely the truck chase, but to me that chase is so great that it transcends all space, all time, and all judgment. In "Doom," for me the most clever and original stunt set was the suspension bridge. I could see Indy doing that. Even to this day, I love telling people like my boss to "Prepare to meet Kali--IN HELL!!" They just look at me funny. Dicks.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Empire Strikes Back

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Is, for me, the greatest and most satisfying sequel ever in the history of mankind making movies ever ever on this planet, ever. It's got the same characters, but with slightly more sense of history together (given the exploits they had after Yavin that we aren't privy to--like "that bounty hunter in Ord Mandel"). They're in a completely different setting, cold snowy, remote Hoth--a clever new location for SPACE movie, and a great backdrop for the low-tech (but heavy duty) hardware of Ion cannons, Imperial probe droids (boner magic!) and AT-ATs, and home to great creature creations like Wampa and Tauntaun.<p> And from there we're off to swampy Dagobah for our little "prince" character Luke to make his date with destiny, and we're introduced to a "Great Warrior" in the form of 2-ft Yoda, the greatest movie muppet ever, and brilliantly performed by Frank Friggin Oz, and even the ghost of Kenobi pays a visit during the sequence.<p> And meanwhile, our other heroes are busy outrunning--get this--SUPER COOL SPACE BOUNTY HUNTERS hired by Darth Vader through AN ASTEROID FIELD and the one who manages to track 'em is Han's old nemesis Boba Friggin GimmeABoner Fett. Oh, and there's betrayal as Han and Leia seek refuge at Cloud City, home of Han's old chum Lando, who was already "convinced" to turn over the good guys. And so we get the Garden of Gethsemani in Space, as beloved C3PO is BLOWN to PIECES (how great was that), Han and Chewie are tortured, and Han is friggin slam-dunked and stamped into carbonite for delivery to his foe, Jabba. And it's ALL JUST A PRELUDE to the confrontation between Luke and Darth, who OMIGOD, is his FATHER, and while Luke's getting psyched out by Darth Dad and having his hand lopped off, Lando and Leia are making their escape, hoping to catch Boba, and Chewie (go figure this unexpected bond) is lamenting Threepio's dismemberment whilst assisting in the getaway. It was just so schaweet on so many levels, and what's great is it ENDS that way, unresolved, with one of the heroes frozen and kidnapped, another with a bionic hand and insight to a past he was better off not knowing about, darkness, pain...

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Has there ever been any explanation given as to why the Darabont

    by Rogue_Leader

    Seriously, I am dying to know! Also will we AT LEAST ever get to read it? I mean it would be nice to know about the Indy movie that MIGHT have been.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Has there ever been any explanation given as to why the Darabont

    by Rogue_Leader

    Seriously, I am dying to know! Also will we AT LEAST ever get to read it? I mean it would be nice to know about the Indy movie that MIGHT have been.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:14 p.m. CST

    I meant to say above the about the Darabont script that was reje

    by Rogue_Leader

    Damn AICN talkback forum cutting off the message topics.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:17 p.m. CST

    I totally agree Abom....

    by just pillow talk

    That last show, when we see the Falcon fly away from the fleet, Luke and Leia looking out...I just could not wait to see what happened next (was it what we all wanted, mixed bag, but that's the feeling I had). Kind of like the feeling I had with Fellowship...couldn't wait for the next one.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:18 p.m. CST

    NoDiggity, Lost Jarv, and others

    by systemsbroom

    I sorta agree with NoDiggity. Not his vitriol, but with what I take it to be his main point, which is a worry that Indy 4 will feel like fanfiction. I don't necessarily agree that the film will turn out that way, but I harbor a suspicion. <P> Both Spielberg and Lucas are likely very different people than they were twenty years ago (success, wealth, bitterness about critics/talkbackers etc. will do that to you), as are all of us. Moreover, it would be incorrect, I think, to say that event films aren't at least somewhat products of their time and place. I mean, we would all admit that on some level, part of Lucas's success with something like Star Wars is luck, right? <P> I don't want to overstate things, but lightning doesn't often strike twice, and pulling off a third sequel two decades after the fact is a daunting undertaking. It's relatively easy to make something new in an old way (fanfiction), but it's really difficult to make something old in a new way (an interesting Indy sequel). Maybe even harder than just making a completely original film. <P> Oh, and while I think it's overstatement to say that Spielberg and Lucas are "stupid," I think that it's understatement to say that they ain't exactly geniuses. Say what you will of the economy in general, but I think the entertainment industry is not well known for coupling success with mental horsepower.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Doom a step down from Raiders

    by Samuel Fulmer

    I just don't get why Lucas and Spielberg are so ashamed of it. I'd place it the top of stuff Lucas has produced, and towards the mid-tier of Spielberg's directoral output. And comparing it to Last Crusade, it's a lot more entertaining and original. Doom has some dumb moments, but at least the action pieces were well done. Most of the action stuff in Last Crusade feels so stagey I'd swear I was watching footage of the Disney/MGM Studios Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy Last Crusade, but I think Doom being held up by Lucas/Spielberg as the black sheep of the trilogy as well as their filmography is laughable.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Thank God Lucas didn't micromanage Empire

    by Samuel Fulmer

    He was too busy with the effects on that one to be on the set everyday. Kershner had a lot of freedom (he actually directed the actors other than saying "Faster, More Intense), unlike Marquand who rumor has it, was Tobe Hoopered on the set of Jedi. As for the Darabont script, my guess is that he approached the material with a more mature audience in mind and Lucas wanted to dumb it down a bit (hence Koep being brought in), so now we've got Mutt Jones.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Speaking of Boba Fett

    by Abominable Snowcone

    For Boba Geeks who didn't know, Hasbro has made available a 30th anniversary figure of Boba in the attire he wore for his debut, in the cartoon from the Star Wars Holiday Special. Just do a search for "Boba Fett Animated Debut" on amazon or eBay or whatever. At seven bucks, can you NOT have one?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Samfulmer

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Ezzactly. Empire was very much a character-driven story. It just happened to have lots of cool sets and just enough action. But it was all about the people, and TENSION. Han and Leia. Luke and Yoda. Luke and Darth. Boba and (unseen) Jabba. Threepio and Threepio. I read somewhere that one of the coolest lines was ad-libbed by Harrison Ford. When Leia says, "I love you" to Han, he was supposed to have said, "I love you too," but Ford correctly surmised that Solo wouldn't put it like that. Instead, he'd say something like, "I know." That was FRICKEN awesome, because those two words said everything about their relationship thus far, and carried the gravitas of the present situation (pending carbonite and possible death) very effectively. Holy schmoley!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Darabont's script...

    by rev_skarekroe

    Was it the one where Indy had an evil brother? If so, I'm glad it was rejected.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Alien vs. Aliens AGAIN???

    by finky089

    Come on, NoDiggity. Go back to preschool if you need to learn this shit again.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Abom on ESB - goddamn!

    by finky089

    Has it ever been said better? <p> Maybe so, but you just made me want to go home and put ESB in the DVD player during lunch! <p> ESB IS the pinnacle of movie sequels. Nice recap. Too bad people like NoDiggity will never get it.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:13 p.m. CST

    I like how the SW bashers always pop

    by skywalkerfamily

    up in every speilberg thread. Hey douchebags. Speilberg had nothing to do with the prequels.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Comparing Indy films is pointless

    by finky089

    I just want to say this for the record but please continue to discuss why one Indy film is better or worse than another b/c it makes for a good TB. But... <p> as a life-long Indy fan each of the films mean something special to me, warts and all. It's an oversimplification, but one man's trash is another man's treasure. Just because one person doesn't like the direction ToD went after Raiders doesn't make it "suck". It is what it IS. And it shows another side of the Indy character we didn't see yet in Raiders. Same with Crusade. <p> Now, I was 12 when I saw Crusade in the theaters and I enjoyed it. I saw ToD on HBO countless times and have literally seen Raiders more than 100 times, at the very least (I stopped counting long ago). Raiders will probably always be my favorite. But that's just my opinion. I like ToD for the things it has that no other Indy film has: murderous cults, the Shanghai dance number, "Nice Try, Lao Che", Indy being "moodier" than the other films, "fortune and glory", the bridge scene, Molaram scraping his head on the way down the cliff. <p> I like Crusade for the same reason- it's a more serious film than the others. Growing up Jewish, the "cup of Christ" didn't hold alot of sentiment for me, but Indy's journey to get it did. As did his relationship with his father. In fact, the score for Crusade probably enhanced my appreciation for the film more than anything else. Aside from the "advernturous" opening with Young Indy, there's sort of a dark meloncholy sound that runs throughout the score. It ultimately ends "happy", but it's bittersweet. I guess that resonates personally for me, which is why I have grown fond of Crusade and its score. But there's no question that its a very different tone from Raiders and ToD. <p> Some people will like one more than the other, and that's totally cool. But to insist that only "one" shows the "true" Indy while the others are crap is ignorant and shows a limited amount of affection for the films.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:19 p.m. CST

    That said - I can't wait for Williams' new Indy score

    by finky089

    In retrospect, it was probably the part I still enjoy the most from the SW prequels (aside from good memories of midnight screening comeraderie and perhaps a 1,000 drive to Celebration II - damn, did I actually just divulge that?)

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:23 p.m. CST

    I wonder what NoDiggity would say on JJ's ST movie?

    by finky089

    Remake or sequel? Remake or sequel? Remake or sequel? Remake or sequel? Remake or sequel? Remake or sequel? Remake or sequel?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Let's hope Williams' score

    by Samuel Fulmer

    doesn't get hacked up in the finished film like his prequel scores did. I don't think Spielberg would do that, but he did do it once with Williams Lost World score.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Sequels usually aren't remakes

    by Samuel Fulmer

    but Evil Dead II is a remake (and a sequel) of Evil Dead, just with a little more humor thrown in.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:32 p.m. CST

    finky089

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Actually, Ben's "ghost" didn't appear on Dagobah until "Jedi," right? It was only his ghost-voice we heard in dialogue with Yoda in "Empire." Stuff like, "He'll learn (patience)," "Was I any younger when you trained me?" and "That boy was our last hope" and "Jesus, that's a big dildo."

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Ben was on Dagobah in ESB

    by skywalkerfamily

    He warns Luke not to face Vader.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:42 p.m. CST

    There are very few movies as good as RAIDERS

    by slone13

    Every scene, every character, every piece of dialogue works so perfectly and progresses the ingenious story along in such a natural way. Losing Best Picture to Chariots of Fire that year was a crime.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:46 p.m. CST

    um, Raiders never deserved an Oscar...

    by Rickey Henderson

    It's a damned fine & entertaining movie, but it's not Oscar worthy. Sorry, but no.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:47 p.m. CST

    True, slone13, but winning Best Picture

    by finky089

    can often be like winning Rookie of the Year - a kiss of death. Besides, Raiders just wasn't meant for the stuffier-shirt cronies who made up much of the Academy voters 25+ years ago, so what should we expect. We know which movie people know better these days. <P> Hell, play the Raiders March and the theme from Chariots of Fire to Joe Public today and they'll recognize both, but I bet the majority will only be able to tell you the movie that one came from - Raiders.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Raiders was nominated best picture

    by skywalkerfamily

    but lost. Also, despite you Lucas bashers, the first Star Wars was nominated for best picture.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Abom- I'm not sure about Ben

    by finky089

    I want to say you're right, but then Ben's ghost is definitely present when he says "that boy is our last hope" to Yoda. <p> And at first I thought that line was in ROTJ, but now that I think about it, it could have been in ESB. <p> If I wasn't so swamped with work I'd be at home watching ESB right now and could tell you for sure!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:51 p.m. CST

    But, I'm sure there's others on this TB who know

    by finky089

    ESB backwards and forwards (the way I know Raiders) and can probably say for sure.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:55 p.m. CST

    You guys are kidding, right?

    by Rickey Henderson

    About now knowing whether or not Ben's ghost appears in ESB, right? (it does). Just curious...

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Katanga (yes, this is really late)

    by finky089

    I want to add a very belated "Katanga kicks ass!" to the convo that happened here yesterday since i couldn't participate. <p> It's a small role, but he is perfect. It's sometimes those characters I really dig in Indy films. Brody, Musgrove & Eaton, Col Deitrich, Lao Che, The fat Guy who burps at the dinner in ToD, Herman...okay, so they're mostly in Raiders, but you get my drift...

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Does anyone know if Brody is in this flick?

    by Rickey Henderson

    Just curious... It's not a proper Indy flick without Marcus Brody getting into trouble. Or Sallah perpetuating Arab stereotypes....

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 2:59 p.m. CST

    ChestBumper and Ricky

    by finky089

    See, I knew there'd be assistance. <p> I have to admit to not watching ESB for a while now, thus my ambivalence. I have always been a bigger Indy fan than SW. (Finky ducks a thrown brick)

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Yeah, I'm with you on that one finky

    by Rickey Henderson

    I've always been more of an Indy fan than a Star Wars one... I've only seen the Star Wars movies a few times each, (which probably makes me some kind of albino freak here at AICN). Frakk, the actor who plays Brody died? That totally stinks.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:03 p.m. CST

    What are you apologizing for, Ricky Henderson?

    by slone13

    And regardless of how you may feel, the Academy DID find Raiders to be Oscar worthy. They gave it 9 nominations. And it won 5.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Rickey, there's no Brody

    by finky089

    cuz Denholm up in died waiting around for SS & GL to make another Indy film. They didn't recast, but from the script rumors I've heard, they seem to have sort of replaced his character's role with another character(s). SPOILER* <p> I read that when Connery bowed out for good, they rewrote his character's part for the one played by Jim Broadbent. However, I suspect there's a bit of sentimentality that would have been reserved for Brody's character in there as well. <p> I originally thought perhaps Ray Winstone's character was also fulfilling a bit of the "Brody tag-along" factor, but have since then been lead to beleive that Winstone is a "competitor" of Jones' so perhaps there's more of a departure there from Brody's "companion" than I originally thought.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Of Course Ben's ghost is present.

    by NoDiggity

    "That Boy is our Last Hope" he says. "No, There is another" replies Yoda. And you see Ben's ghost pleading with Luke not to get into his X-Wing

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Rickey apologizes for everything, slone13...

    by Rickey Henderson

    It's a bad habit. <br> <br> finky: very reassuring to know they're carrying over some the the Brody character's qualities in some shape or form. Indy definitely needs an aloof bookworm to tag along with.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    finky089

    by slone13

    Good to see someone else lost count after having seen Raiders over 100 times, too. I can still go almost word for word with every line in that movie. Easily my favorite flick of all time. And one of the major reasons I chose a career in the film/tv industry.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Brody DOES

    by slone13

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Brody DOES make a brief "cameo" in the new flick

    by slone13

    In a portrait painting on the wall in one of the museum scenes.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:18 p.m. CST

    I come here for 'SCOOPS' NOT 'OOPS!'

    by Stark Industries

    I used to hit this site first thing every day before anything! Now, if I want the Scoop on something, or God forbid an inside look or view, I have to go to other more informed sites. Not all of us are able to go to the BNAT's or be a part of anything but this site. Now I have to go over to V-rioty, CHUD, Superherohype, Comics to Film and other reviews sites to stay current. Sad that this site used to blow 'em all away but now I just use it to check in about twice a week. Hey guys! Get it together and be the site that you started out to be! I still am thankful for all you do but let's stay on the cutting-edge... not the cutting room floor. Thanks! Boot Jets to Full Power! -Stark

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Good stuff sloane

    by Rickey Henderson

    Thanks for the scoop. Where'd you see that anyway? It would be nice to know what sites are good sources on Indy news (kind of like what the jackass above me said, only without all the moonbat crazyness).

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:47 p.m. CST

    slone13 - I forgot about the portrait

    by finky089

    Good call. <p>There's also a shop with a sign in the street they shot on in Hartford (where they put up the faux shop names) that says "Brody's". But the portait is a great memorial for him...

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Rickey Henderson RE: Brody scoop

    by slone13

    I believe I read it in Star Wars Insider magazine, in one of their "Indy updates" type sections. Oddly enough, wikipedia also mentions it in their "Marucs Brody" entry, though the didn't site the source.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:01 p.m. CST

    routh replaced by someone younger, buh-bye warner!

    by ironic_name

    i saved $12 by not seeing the next superman movie!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:03 p.m. CST

    "brainiac, doomsday and warner bros." karnak will now open the e

    by ironic_name

    "name three things that, with time, can kill superman."

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:04 p.m. CST

    envelope

    by ironic_name

    hiyooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Phantom Menace

    by Prossor

    I have to agree what was said above about Phantom Menace being the best of the prequels, that's not saying much like that neat shit over here is better than that messy shit over there. it's still better than that nyquil/alcoholic haze Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith which looks like it was storyboarded and edited by a coke snorting monkey. The Darth Maul fight is better than the others, even that ObiWan vs. Anakin fight straight out of Super Smash Brothers Planet Zebes level with the lava and floating platforms. I can even forgive Jake Lloyd's acting because how else would a 12 year old kid be, at least it's better than Haydumb Cantactforshitensensensen's unintentional hilarious Anakin. Obi Wan is the only character from both trilogies who wasn't fucked up in hte prequels. His handshake meeting with Anakin for the first time was awesome. but then that cinematic abortion Jar Jar.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Ben appears even earlier on Hoth!

    by skywalkerfamily

    But you supposed ESB die hards knew that, right?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:25 p.m. CST

    You know who else won't be returning for Man of Steel?

    by finky089

    Me and my $12.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:35 p.m. CST

    NoDiggity, you ignorant slut.

    by DocPazuzu

    I just caught up with this conversation after getting home from work and I just can't believe how obstinate, uninformed and moronic your posts are, you jackass. <p> If you recall, Indy's "foe" in the prologue of Last Crusade wore a leather jacket and a fedora DECADES before Raiders. This leaves you with two choices: <p> 1) That Indy's outfit was ALREADY out of style in the 1930's. <p> 2) That with the exception of the fedora (which American men were still wearing in the 1950s), a plain leather jacket, khakis and brown leather shoes have simply never gone out of style since their introduction. <p> So which is it? <p> Besides, he only wears that stuff in the field. In his academic life, he dresses in tweed just like virtually every professor did in America during most of the 20th Century. <p> I'm sure you'd like those stupid-heads Spielberg and Lucas to go in a new, fresh direction and have Indy trade in his whip for a billy club and his hat for a sombrero and not actually be an archaeologist, but a private eye who solves missing person cases and gets on the wrong footing with the mob. <p> You fucking idiot.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Dude people are still wearing leather jackets

    by skywalkerfamily

    and fedoras today. Humphrey Bogart started that trend. Not Indy.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Trailer?

    by Orionsangels

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 5:17 p.m. CST

    ok diggity, i see the point you're trying to make

    by occula

    i know, doc, you think he's a blithering idiot, but i get what he's attempting to say. diggity, i think you're overanalyzing the machinations of how story and design are executed, specifically because you yourself admitted you didn't really give a toss for 'raiders' so you don't seem to get what everybody's so passionate about. which is fine for the sake of argument (although in reality you should be thrown in a pit with the FSM, your only weapon a cube of cheese), but thinking spielberg would imitate his own designs to further a story is wrong; nobody does that. filmmakers don't think that way (although sometimes producers do). the visuals that revolve around the indy stories have remained constant, whether or not the films have been good or middling, because they're integral to not only story, but character.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Routh will not be in the JL movie,but in the ...

    by travis-dane

    Superman sequel he is still on!Just the writers of "Returns"are out.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Hey Jarv

    by DocPazuzu

    Don't mean to hijack a thread but it's been brought to my attention that MegaForce actually has a legit DVD release in the Netherlands. Don't know if you've ever seen this mind-bogglingly, wonderfully awful movie before but it most assuredly deserves a place in the catacombs of casa del jarv.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 8:16 p.m. CST

    On Dopey-ness....

    by JiveTalker

    Actually, I don't think it's LaBeouf but Blanchett that looks rather dopey here. The ill-fitting uniform and page-boy haircut render her almost unrecognizable, and decidedly androgynous. And yet I'd still do her six ways from Sunday. Is that a bad sign?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Doc, as I said before about the Jacket and Hat ...

    by NoDiggity

    ... if Fedoras are still worn in the 50's, Then Indy should still wear them, but NOT because he saved them from the 30's, because they were his "favorite" hat and jacket. If you are using Temple of Doom as "canon" you are as imbecilic as the people who made Temple of Doom and Crusade. I know there are fans out there whose concept of Indy is made up out of all the films, but for true fans... there can be only one defining film, right? The films are inconsistent with eachother anyway, as to Indy's personality. Might as well stick to the one that started it all. Re: The Hat and Jacket.. What matters is WHY Indy has them. Is it because he likes that STYLE or because he's thinking like a movie memorabilia fan and saving his ONE HAT AND JACKET from earlier movies, because that's what a movie character, aware of himself as a movie character, would do, because that's what the fans would do (save them as sacred objects). As I pointed out, TEMPLE OF DOOM violates the personality established in RAIDERS by making his hat super important to Indy, in spite of the fact that in RAIDERS Indy changes hats three times, and loses his jacket and whip during the adventure. Having Indy save old decrepit versions of his jacket and Fedora for 20 years just isn't Indy, it's movie-icon-worshipping logic, and true only to the Temple of Doom persona, which introduced that "save my favorite hat" retarded quirk into the character.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9 p.m. CST

    Occula, who told you I didn't love RAIDERS?

    by NoDiggity

    I do give a toss about it. It was a very good film, which the sequels kinda pissed all over. I'm just not encouraged by the Vanity Fair article, in which it appears that the decision to return to that look is one that Spielberg personally, as an artist, isn't interested in any more. Neither he nor his cinematographer seem to be. It's a purely practical "Give the fans the look they want" decision. If that's all that motivates their decisions, and they don't have a personal passion for the material, the material is going to suck, no matter how superficially "Indyish" it looks.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:04 p.m. CST

    i think you're still overanalyzing.

    by occula

    indy's character wears a hat, a jacket, a bush shirt, khakis and shoes because that's what he wears, just like han solo wears a vest and gandalf wears a pointy hat. to say a character wouldn't wear the same thing 20 years later just because clothing styles have changed makes sense, but not in the obviously stylized world these characters inhabit. this is a fantastical reality where spirits come alive, people's hearts are ripped from their chests and everyone can take a beating and live to tell the tale. the creators are paying homage to a genre, not giving you characters you might know from your local supermarket. ok now I'M overanalyzing!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:11 p.m. CST

    In Indy 3, Indy wore a tie with his outfit

    by skywalkerfamily

    and he didn't wear that in the other movies.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Orcus, are you retarded?

    by NoDiggity

    Whether it's a prequel or a sequel, if Indy doesn't act like the Indy we saw in the first movie, it's a violation of his character as established in the first movie. Core aspects of his personality ought to remain consistent. By which I do NOT mean "he wears the same hat and jacket all the time". Nothing wrong with that, by itself, but it's not the most important thing to maintaining character consistency.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Nice -

    by Fing Fang Foom

    Nice one, Orcus. Love Doom, btw. We are all insane, some in better ways than others. How do you want Indy to dress, No Diggity?

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:24 p.m. CST

    character progression

    by Prossor

    in Temple he starts out a greedy asshole, more primal and ends up doing it not for himself but for others, when he says "yes i understand now" to the village elder

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Calm yourself

    by Fing Fang Foom

    Violation? There's no violation. Chillax!

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:26 p.m. CST

    ermmm...well...it can be

    by occula

    when i costume actors, sometimes i have to consider things that make sense for the situation, rather than what i myself might think is the best solution. the costume as a whole might represent not only the visual of the character, but other things besides: a means to an audience reaction, an homage (like i mentioned before), or even something more subtle (like, indy wears a tie in 'crusade' maybe because we're meant to infer he wants to prove he's a grown-up to his father. whether or not that's true, it could easily have been something the costumer discussed with spielberg).

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Indiana Jones and the "audience film"?

    by AntoniusBloc

    as opposed to what other type of film? Perhaps the difference here between a PJ and Lucas/Spielberg

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Should have stopped with the 'Last' Crusade

    by AntoniusBloc

    Which I loved. But now having aliens and transformer boy(would have preferred transformer girl) this appears to be Superman IV and the nuclear man all over again.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:37 p.m. CST

    When u think about it...

    by Fing Fang Foom

    Isn't it cool that Indy is a bit more of a "greedy asshole" and primal in the prequel Temple. In Raiders and Temple, he got more serious about his profession.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 9:44 p.m. CST

    der...

    by Fing Fang Foom

    i mean Raiders and Crusade. Temple gives imagination to a more reckless and selfish Indy of youth, although his underlying morals were most certainly present yet a bit more hazy. Gives him arc and makes him more interesting. I dig the scoundrel side of his persona. Hope he's a nutty old dude in the new one, not a "it belongs in a museum" windbag.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 10:42 p.m. CST

    I think in Temple Indy is more adult.

    by skywalkerfamily

    He gives the Sankara stones to the villagers, when he could have easily just taken them back with him. Also, Willie tells Indy he could've had fortune and glory, but Indy just shrugs it off.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Another essay on Indy's hat?

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    No, please. Fedoras fit the times, end of story.

  • Jan. 3, 2008, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Temple of Doom too dark?

    by zooch

    maybe in 1984.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 12:01 a.m. CST

    Some entertainment news web sites...

    by wackybantha

    ....are already saying that SHIA plays Indy's son. Fact or just sloppy reporting? Hmmmm.....

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 12:09 a.m. CST

    there you are!

    by occula

    xiphos, my angel! you missed the hat fight. next time, hurry up and get over here!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 12:45 a.m. CST

    Shia as Indy's Son ???

    by NoDiggity

    That's almost a given, isn't it? Lucas is obsessed with Father/Son relationships. I can't believe this is still a doubted element of the film.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Indy in TEMPLE is inconsistent with Indy of RAIDERS

    by NoDiggity

    AS was pointed out above, the arc of RAIDERS shows Indy moving from extreme selfishness to generously not stealing the treasure, or whatever. And then he goes back to being selfish again for RAIDERS? Yeah, that seems inconsistent to me. And the extreme cartoonishness of Indy's selfishness in TEMPLE is disturbing to me. It makes him a different character, pretty much. A cartoonish version of the scoundrel Indy from RAIDERS is inconsistent with the less cartoony version of RAIDERS. The inconsistency is cartoony vs. realistic.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 12:55 a.m. CST

    "The Great Hat Debate of 2008" ha!

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    Let it be duly affixed into the AICN lexicon! (ancient bearded scribe begins to scribble with quill pen on an enormous leather-bound ledger)

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:12 a.m. CST

    Wow, NoDiggity...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...you really are a nitpicking moron. Maybe you started off the hat thing and defended it a bit too much and now you've painted yourself into a corner where you find yourself compelled to defend an indefensible position. <p> If you would, could you in a simple post explain in short how the hat thing differs in the three movies please. Let's see if you actually have a coherent theory about this. Reading your lame retorts to every detail that's pointed out to you is wearisome. <p> Indulge us, please.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:31 a.m. CST

    "The Hat thing differs in the three movies"?

    by NoDiggity

    Could you be a little more articulate as to what the fuck you are asking me? Or are you too lazy to back to the previous talkback to find material to cut and paste out of context for your silly little declarations of triumph over nothing? I don't understand your question re: "The Hat thing"

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:33 a.m. CST

    not this again

    by ironic_name

    wtfuck hat

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:35 a.m. CST

    the hat fight of death!

    by ironic_name

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:37 a.m. CST

    Okay, the "Hat Thing"

    by NoDiggity

    Pazuzu's question is incomprehensible, so I assume he wants me to recap for his lazy ass a complaint I had about Indy treating his Hat (in Temple) like it was precious to him. I think Indy only rescued his hat once in RAIDERS, and that is offset by the fact that he went through THREE hats during the movie. This makes the hat rescuing gag in DOOM a plagiaristic cartoonization of the character, and also makes the pic from the new movie, which indicates that he's kept a hat and jacket around for 20 years, ALSO a plagiaristic cartoonization of his character. a PARTICULAR favorite hat and jacket, in either DOOM or the new one, is a sign of cartoonization, which conflicts with the original portrait in RAIDERS where Indy didn't give THAT much of a fuck about his hat and Jacket, since he replaces his hat twice with new ones during the course of the movie, and has lost his jacket and whip as well.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:06 a.m. CST

    Indiana Jones and the costume change of doom

    by skywalkerfamily

    Dude, talk about the plot. Who cares about the costumes?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:04 a.m. CST

    NoDiggity

    by DocPazuzu

    How do you know it's the exact same hat and jacket in Crystal Skull as in the other movies?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:08 a.m. CST

    Don't specifically recall...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...Indy "rescuing" his hat in TOD although he would show up with it after being without it for a while. I personally don't see why he would leave it behind if he happened to stumble upon it again during his adventure. <p> YOU'RE the fucking cartoon, NoDiggity.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:10 a.m. CST

    the best prequel

    by Staldo

    I just realized that Temple is probably the finest fantasy/adventure prequel ever made. Props to Spielberg for not spraying "IT'S A PRE-QUEL! IT HAPPENED BEFORE THE FIRST ONE! IT'S A NEW CONCEPT IN FILM!" all over the media before it was released.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:55 a.m. CST

    Jarv

    by DocPazuzu

    MegaForce has, along with Rock n Roll Nightmare, the most mind-blowingly awful and utterly hysterical finale I have ever seen in any movie. I'd direct you to a youtube clip or two, but I don't want to spoil the sheer awesomeness of what you are about to partake in. <p> "Deeds, Not Words!"

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 5:27 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, what have you "shredded"?

    by NoDiggity

    Nothing. And Doc Pazuzu promised he would rewatch the Alien Quadrology and get back to me on how stupid my comparison was. What happened, Doc? Did you watch them and realize I was right? Or did you think I was wrong and simply not bother to say so? Or did you just chicken out and settle for shouting "pulpy" over and over?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 5:39 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv...

    by NoDiggity

    Just because your friend read some stupid book doesn't mean you have defeated me. Address your arguments to me, not to some stupid book read by your stupid friend. Who, by the way, is smarter than you are because he recognizes the ALIENS is a remake of ALIEN.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 5:39 a.m. CST

    AICN YOU SLOW PIECE OF SHIT SPREAD ON TOAST

    by Pipple

    NEW INDY PIC AT CHUD. SHIA LABICH HAS A SWORD FOR SOME FUCKING REASON! iT LOOKS COOL THOUGH. http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=news&id=13159

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 5:53 a.m. CST

    NoDiggity

    by DocPazuzu

    Actually, I've only made it so far as Alien and Aliens. Not only was I strengthened in my opinions of the movies, I was also strengthened in my opinion of you being a clueless, shallow and shrill fucktard of epic proportions who should never be allowed within a two-mile radius of any film class, movie theater or bicycle with less than three wheels.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 5:59 a.m. CST

    DocPazuzu, and yet you failed to bring it up.

    by NoDiggity

    Why was that? You had watched the movies and proven to yourself what a fucktard I was ... and yet you said nothing! So mature, so reserved! Why didn't you say anthing until I called you out on it? Why have you still said nothing? Why haven't you listed all the reasons why my points of comparison between the two films are wrong? Why? I know why. Because you knew I was right, and you couldn't bear to admit it. You are a coward and a liar, incapable of admitting a flaw. Why not show some maturity and concede that I was right, and that you agree? Go ahead, prove me wrong, prove you are an adult human being, Pazuzu.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:03 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, there were more comparison points than that .

    by NoDiggity

    When you say that the only recurring features are Ripley, the Company, and the Aliens, you are lying to yourself, and to me. You are contemptible. You know you are lying about this, and yet you keep bleating about it. Be happy in your self-fellating bullshit, if you imagine it's convinced anyone you've won anything. It's only fooling you, however.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:40 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, NO.

    by NoDiggity

    Alien 3 is not a remake of Alien/Aliens,, nor is Alien R a remake of any of the previous films. Why? For the opposite reasons that point to ALIENS being a remake of ALIEN, not enough point for point parallels.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Well, now that I think of it ...

    by NoDiggity

    Alien Resurrection has elements that are point for point parallels. The presence of an Android (obligatory) sucking an Alien out into space at the end (though more gruesome). I'll give that a lot of retreading is going on in the sequels, but not to the incredibly detailed extent that Aliens did. There are elements of regurgitation in all the films, but they do feel like their own stories. I didn't feel, when watching them, that I was seeing every little story element was being copied from Alien before being messed with. Of course, I stopped taking the franchise seriously after ALIENS, and didn't really pay huge attention to 3 and 4. But certainly 3 managed to end the film in an original way (did it involve blowing an alien out of an airlock? I don't think so) and Alien Resurrection, as wierd as it was, felt like it was a different story from ALIEN, not a microscopically detailed reconstruction of the original's plot. The Winona Ryder android was at least a unique character, whereas Burke, in Aliens, was just the same character as Ash in ALIEN, only human instead of robotic. (and the android in Aliens was left with the other feature of the robot from ALIEN, the ability to maintain the ability to communicate after dismemberment and spurting white goo).

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:15 a.m. CST

    Jarv, the fact is that Burke fulfil's Ashes role, even though he

    by NoDiggity

    If you ignore the "He's an android" aspect, the both work secretly for the Company, trying to bring back an Alien for study, at the expense of the lives of the crew. Burke even attempts to dump a dead facehugger on someone (though it's Newt this time) just as Ash did on Ripley when the facehugger disappeared. Cameron mixed it up a bit by making the "Evil Member of the Crew" human instead of robot, and making the Android member of the crew (aboutwho Ripley repeats her lines from the first film about how she doesn't trust) good instead of evil, but that's very rudimentary changes. The aspects of ASH remain intact, though split into two characters. the Burke half of Ash is evil and pro-Corporation, and pro-Alien, and the Android half of Ash is dismembered and spurts goo. And you know there are a TON more parallels, if you are reading the other talkback. Please continue. ALL the character parallels have had tweaks and differences added to them. But their base was obvioisly the original script and characters, and doesn't dare to stray from them very far.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:20 a.m. CST

    So, what I mean about Burke and the "good" Android IS ..

    by NoDiggity

    That it's one way they tried to disguise the ripoffery. The took one character and split him into two characters, since putting another evil Android in the sequel would be too obvious and repetetive. But they had to have that Evil betraying CHARACTER in the sequel, you see? Just disguised a little by making him Human, and making the suspicious Android "good". They WERE trying to make it seem less obvious they were ripping off the first movie, but they still didn't dare NOT rip off the first movie. You still got a character who betrayed them all in order to save the Alien(s). An Android still got dismembered and spurted goo. Those were the elements they felt had to be in there. The superficial changes to disguise it were secondary.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:21 a.m. CST

    here's what you do NoDiggity....

    by just pillow talk

    Freshen yourself up as best as you can...go out drinking tonight. Don't get sloppy drunk because you need to hook up with a chick. The looks of the chick are not important right now, just get with a chick.<p>Tell her "I am Legend" and make sweet love to her a la Chef. <p>Take a nice shower in the morning and have a hearty breakfast. Read the paper...take it easy. Repeat finding a chick if you still feel like you have a snow shovel up your ass.<p>Then, when you are ready, watch Alien and Aliens again...from a 'fresh' perspective.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:31 a.m. CST

    The Fedora and the Whip

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I suspect that the whole "it's my favorite hat" thing was exaggerated in Temple of Doom for two reasons:<p> 1) Comedic effect to balance some of the darker elements, and <p> 2) Continuing the 'grab-the-close-personal-item-at-the-last-possible-second' schtick established in Raiders when Indy snagged his whip from under the rapidly-descending stone door in the Hovito temple. In Doom, he does a last-second grab of the hat after Willie reactivates the spike-ceiling trap.<p> I'm sure Indy's probably not wearing the exact SAME hat in Skull as he wore in Raiders, and it's likely that THAT fedora wasn't the same hat given him by his adversary-mentor after the teenage train gambit. I do suspect it's a look he likes, and the hat does have utility "in the field" to keep some sun (and possibly sand, foliage) out of his outrageously rugged handsome face. Now, I wasn't born until the dawn of the 70s, and although I've seen lots of average men wearing hats on 50s TV reruns, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on fashion from that era. But I will say I don't think it's a stretch for a man who lived his adult years during the hat-popular 30s-50s to have owned several hats, including several fedoras of the same make, over the course of time. If you wanted to you could look up the hat and jacket and man-purse online. Geek sites will describe in excruciating detail where they originated and who the manufacturers were. I just don't care all that much. I'm sure most of you have seen, as have I, that Spielberg wanted his costumer in Raiders to come up with a hat that looked good first and formost as a silohuette, so we could get that iconic shadow of Indy in the hat. It was a clever idea, and the lady costumer scored when she put a fedora on Ford, and it also just so happened to look good with the shirt, jacket, shoes and man-bag.<p> On another note, I think we can all accept that there's a certain amount of belief we suspend throughout the Indy movies in that he manages to keep the hat on through most of the adventures. The first thing that comes to mind is the tank chase in Crusade. We actually get close-ups of Indy dangling from the turret and being scraped along the cliffside. We see the hat bend, but never come off. At least not until the end, when the tank lunges off the cliff, and even THEN when Indy reappears at the edge, the hat is magically blown back to him, and neither Indy nor his dad or friends seem to notice that. It's just a smirk from Connery and a "Let's go, Junior."

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:34 a.m. CST

    suspension of belief...and the staples that Harrison

    by just pillow talk

    put into his head are all the hat needs to stay on.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:42 a.m. CST

    G'morning, pillow

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Hope your evening with Ms. Mendes was splendiferous

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:45 a.m. CST

    it was a flaming good time.....

    by just pillow talk

    oh, and the 'twins' say hello, now excuse me while I put my mouth back on the left one....it gets so jealous.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Other Possible Hats for Indy

    by Abominable Snowcone

    1) Boston Red Sox baseball cap, turned backwards when he's in "the field" or banging chicks<p> 2) yellow construction hard-hat<p> 3) porkpie barber-shop quartet hat<p> 4) top hat, a la Abe Lincoln hat<p> 5) black knit wool cap with 'AC-DC' stenciled in white on front<p> 6) dual beer-holder helmet 7) a raspberry beret, the kind you find in a second-hand store 8) an elk lodge cap with tassle 9) a santa clause hat 10) an Elmer Fudd hunter cap with ear-flaps

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:50 a.m. CST

    Ah yes sweet nectar

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Donkey-punch her for me

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:02 a.m. CST

    11) A Leather Helmet from early football days

    by just pillow talk

    12) A Bonnet <p>The little minx wants more...hold on...

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:06 a.m. CST

    13) a Steve Martin arrow-thru-head

    by Abominable Snowcone

    14) a viking war helmet with horns<p> 15) a Stetson<p> 16) marching band drummer hat with big ass fuckin' red plume on it

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Maybe Jones could also wear...

    by Abominable Snowcone

    a T-shirt under his jacket that says, "I'm INDIANA JONES, BITCH"

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:16 a.m. CST

    Jarv

    by Abominable Snowcone

    See #6

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:37 a.m. CST

    reindeer antleers

    by just pillow talk

    Or maybe Jones should be in that New Years baby getup...top hat and a diaper.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:39 a.m. CST

    or antlers

    by just pillow talk

    either one, and you've got yourself one hell of a hat to wear on adventures.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Actually, NoDiggity...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...I was hoping you'd show up in the recent AvP talkbacks so that I could bitchsmack you along with the Fox plants. Alas, it was not to be. Believe it or not, when not debating you I actually don't spend much time dwelling on your horseshit. <p> Now that we're here, though, I'll gladly dismantle every single one of your theories regarding Alien and Aliens. I could just start off with the classic "Newt is Jones" bit, but I'd like to give you the benefit of choosing which slap you want first. I'll even let you write a recap and plug any and all holes you may think your theories have before I annihilate them. <p> If you like, I can jump right in and add to Jarv's thorough destruction of your Ash/Burke thing. What say you?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:01 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv.

    by NoDiggity

    The fact that the "betrayer of the humans" character exists in both films is the parallel. Ash and Burke act almost identically. You seem to have forgotten the search for the facehugger in the first movie, where it's implied that Ash had poked the facehugger corpse and caused it to fall down on Ripley. Burke pulls a similar trick with a facehugger corpse in Aliens. And I'm not denying that Bishop is a different character (a good Android vs. an evil Android). But he's not very different, and he reprises one of the original android's roles by getting dismembered and squirting white goo. Burke reprises Ash's role as evil betrayer of the humans and Alien Specimen acquirer. Of course, Burke is an incredibly retarded variation on Burke because, being Human, his actions make absolutely no sense, while the actions of a programmed android do. I don't know what stupid book you are talking about, but I would appreciate it if you had the courtesy of addressing my arguments, not the arguments of some retarded book you are assuming I'm basing my comments on. I'm quite capable of speaking and thinking form myself. I don't need to parrot lines from books, (or from other talkbacks or from DocPazuzu, as you seem to like to do, in lieu of thinking for yourself)

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Pazuzu, you Talk and Talk

    by NoDiggity

    about "bitchsmacking", "adding to the destruction" of my ideas, etc. etc. but you never actually DO anything. Just blab and blab about how you've kicked ass, or how ass has been kicked by others, on and on, with no actual show of any real thinking. Is that good enough for you? Are you content with being a fake? Of posing as a "winner" in an AICN talkback, without ever having made the effort to win a damn thing? You come off desperately pathetic, a wannabe "winner" who just doesn't have the chops, or is too lazy to develop them. Sad.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, ironically YOU are a victim of "Archetype" criticism.

    by NoDiggity

    You are applying an "archetype" to me, calling me an "archetype" critic, instead of paying attention to the evidence of actual "archetype" modeling in the creation of ALIENS. I'm claiming that the creators of ALIENS are to be "laughed at" because they are Archetype Writers. Because they deliberately insisted on making all elements of the old film into "archetypes" upon which they would hang the clothes of the old film. You despise "archteype" criticism that guts nuanced work of it's unique and personal meaning? As well you should. So why give a pass to "archetype" screenwriting and directing that insists on basing themselves on "archetypes"? The word we use for this is Hacking, or Ripping-Off, or, as I have been doing, "remaking".

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:15 a.m. CST

    Correction

    by NoDiggity

    I meant "I'm claiming that the creators of ALIENS are to be "laughed at" because they are Archetype Writers. Because they deliberately insisted on making all elements of the old film into "archetypes" upon which they would hang the clothes of the NEW film."

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:20 a.m. CST

    i think indy was quick to save the hat in temple

    by sylvester stabone

    cause its hot in india and a nice fedora might keep the face out of the heat?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Should I take that to mean...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...that I can just jump in at any point, NoDiggity?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Resaw Spidey 3 on wednesday

    by messi

    The Fight between Peter and Harry in the Air is Amazing. The Crane Rescue sequence is Spectacular. The End fight is for the most part sensational. The rest of the movie is horseshit. And my god is Kirsten Dunst fucking horrible and completely unnatractive and completely not Mary jane who is supposed to be a Supermodel. But Gwen Stacy made my penis hard. After reading 117 issues of Ultimate Spidey in 3 days I firmly believe they should have done 2 high school movies at least and Brian Michael Bendis should have written it. That guy and Stracynski completely get Spidey and make him the lovable character he is, that dialogue is fucking hilarious.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Why ask, Pazuzu?

    by NoDiggity

    Do you need my permission? Or are you just telling me "I'm going to kick your ass any time now. Yup. Any time. Oh, look out, you're gonna get your ass handed to you. Yep. You'll be sorry. I'm gonna kick your ass! Hoo! Ha! Oh, I can't wait to hand you your ass ... " etc. etc. etc. But you never actually get around to it. Are you going to skip the ass kicking part, like you usually do, and claim that there's no need, since others have already done so? You keep on using that dodge.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:30 a.m. CST

    messi

    by just pillow talk

    I actually prefer the fight at Harry's place...I thought that was more intense, brutal, and personal since Petey was the 'bad' Petey.<p>The end fight didn't work for me because I didn't like Sandy all giant like and what I did like was absolutely ruined by the bullshit forgiveness scene with Sandy.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Jarv, I guess you arent' much for appreciating "Nuance" are you.

    by NoDiggity

    That was one of the "nuances" of the original film, that little scare moment, where he "accidentally" poked the corpse onto Ripley. Yeah, it was dead, but if it had been alive it would have had a new host to face-hug. Well, didn't Burke "accidentally" break a glass container with a facehugger in it, in an attempt to infect Ripley or Newt? (I forget exactly who now). You aren't being very gracous when I point out an exact parallel, with near-identical characters with identical motivations in both films.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:34 a.m. CST

    re Burke/Ash

    by DocPazuzu

    1) Burke never "dumped" a dead facehugger on Newt and Ripley. He opened two jars with live ones. <p> 2) Ash never "dumped" a dead facehugger on anyone either. The thing was already dead and Ash was either pretending to look for it along with the crew or genuinely didn't know where it was or if it was dead or alive. <p> 3) The division of Weyland-Yutani which Ash worked for kept their Alien retrieval plans on a need-to-know basis, hence the disaster commission's incredulity at Ripley's story 57 years later. This is also proven by the fact that the "shake n bake" colony on LV-426 had been there for decades without either detecting any alien beacon, derelict ship or being directed to investigate by Wayland-Yutani. <p> 4) Burke wasn't operating on Weyland-Yutani orders. As Ripley pointed out, the orders for the miners to investigate the coordinates on LV-426 came from Burke personally. He was attempting to either score an alien for personal profit or to rise in the ranks of the corporation. <p> With the "similarities" now gone, all you have left is "well, they're both villains" which is pretty weak.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:36 a.m. CST

    I mean, Lost Jarv, YOU are "reaching" now.

    by NoDiggity

    Reaching to avoid seeing parallels. So you are going to ignore what is told us in the original film, that Ash is an evil android out to sacrifice his crew in the name of saving an Alien life form, and you insist that this evil person only "accidentally" knocked a dangerous alien lifeform on top of another member of his crew? You are looking to gut the original film of it's nuance in your quest to defend the ripoff sequel.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Pazuzu, the elements are identical.

    by NoDiggity

    Ash the evil Android knocks a Facehugger (whose deadness is not yet determined) onto Ripley. Burke the Evil Human spills a jar with facehuggers onto Newt and Ripley. The original is more subtle, letting you figure out in hindsight that that "accident" of Ash's might have not been so accidental at all, and the sequel's version makes it more obvious that it's not accidental, but there it is. Ash/Burke dumps facehugger on Ripley/Ripley-Newt. And it's supposed to be an "accident" both times, right? The ALIENS scene was built on the existence of the first scene. If you don't see that, you are being wilfully stubborn and blind.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:42 a.m. CST

    wow...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...Jarv's archetype comment really got you going, didn't it, NoDiggity? Perhaps you're one of those insufferable undergrad tools he mentioned?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, THEY DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS DEAD.

    by NoDiggity

    In the first movie, it's a false scare, but Ash didn't know it was harmless. From what he knew it was terribly dangerous, because of what it had already done facehugging another member of the crew. So the facehuggers in the second film are alive, and provide a bigger scare when they try to facehug Ripley/Newt and fail? In both cases, the attempt to dump a facehugger on Ripley fails.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:45 a.m. CST

    NoDiggity

    by DocPazuzu

    Ash didn't knock the facehugger on Ripley. Rewatch the scene.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Pazuzu. Rewatch the scene yourself.

    by NoDiggity

    It's strongly implied that he did. Otherwise, how the fuck does the thing get dislodged, since it's dead? The scene cuts back and forth between Ash poking and Ripley getting the corpse dumped on her.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:54 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, just because the story is developed SLIGHTLY differen

    by NoDiggity

    because Burke is human, with a human backstory, and his revelation of Villainy has to occur in a slightly different way, doesn't void the fact that his Villainous moment involves trying to feed people to a Facehugger. This is taken directly from a moment in the original film, even if the dramatic purpose is altered. I'm not saying the films are exactly the same in every respect, but that even when they are different, their differences are based on elements from the original film that are amplified and made "bigger" or more "dramatic". But it's all based on the original film's elements. Cannibalized before "embiggening" them.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Facehuggers in Vats - inconsistency.

    by NoDiggity

    Facehuggers in the original could eath their way through space helmets. Face Huggers in Aliens can be placed conveniently in vats, alive, until they are released, and aren't capable of melting their way out of their containers until they are needed for a scare. Very convenient.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:58 a.m. CST

    messi and pillow

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I agree that the Peter vs. Harry fights are good, especially the "look at little Goblin Junior...gonna cry?" taunts, but like pillow the end fight kinda sucked because giant Sandman for me is visually less exciting than a 'normal' size Sandman doing his contortion stuff, like on the bank truck. Plus, I don't think they used Venom enough, especially given that he'd only just entered the picture. But that's the prob with the whole movie--too much all crammed together. I still cringe when I hear that female reporter (a british accent? in NY?) saying "I cunt believe the bwutality of iht." Makes you want to donkey punch her. That, and the male newsanchor who looks like he has glaucoma and the way he mispronounces "BroadWAAY." <p> Also, I always wanted to know, it assumed that Harry had more than one Sky Stick? Because he loses the first one during the alleyfight with Peter, right? Yet, in the second fight at the mansion he gets nailed in the head by another one that goes berserk.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Jarv, aren't you being dishonest?

    by NoDiggity

    You've read through the old Talback. You don't address any of the solid parallels I've pointed out (the exact duplication of command structure and deaths in the command structure, and survivors of the command structure)from Alien to Aliens. You just pull this bull about "Archetype criticism" out of your hat instead of addressing the points I've made. What about all the plot point parallels, particularly the climax involving escaping an exploding facility while an Alien hitches a ride on the escape vessel, and the final "suiting up" and blowing of the alien out of an airlock? All of that is NOTHING and "Just a coincidence" right?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:02 a.m. CST

    AAAARRRGGHHHH!

    by Rando Calrisian

    ...just reding through this thread, and thought it had to be said. Y'all got way too much time on your hands. <br> <br> Sequels, prequels and remakes are RARELY as good as or better than the originals - it will always be true. I just like to go to the movies and have fun... anyone else?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Burke Facehugger argument

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Sorry to jump in here, but I've seen all the movies and read all the books, and yeah, Burke knew what he was doing when he shut off the camera and dumped the facehuggers in there. He was purposefully trying to impregnate Newt and Ripley with aliens. Nothing accidental or incidental about it, I don't think. I'll have to scroll back up and read what the Ash argument was about.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:04 a.m. CST

    My point is not that there aren't differences,

    by NoDiggity

    but that the ALIENS scene, in all it's differences, was built upon the original scene. The parallels point to this. A truly original script wouldn't have depended on the original so much as a base for constructing the "different" script.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Ben's Ghost in ESB

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I had a brainfart yesterday. I waxed nostalgic on ESB, then back-tracked when I couldn't recall if Ben actually appeared on Dagobah or not. Sure, I remembered he appears to Luke in the snow after the Wampa escape. But I was trying to keep the "Jedi" Dagobah sequence apart in my mind when I was reenvisioning the ESB sequence. He's definitely there in ESB in both voice and image, pleading with Luke not to leave training so soon (holding his palms up toward Luke in the Xwing). Someone else pointed this out above, diggity or someone. How could I have forgotten? Shame. (holds head low)

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:07 a.m. CST

    End Fight of Spidey

    by messi

    Unlike most film geeks I look at positives. Whilst you guys looked at the giant sandman, not enough venom and the forgiveness scene which i all agree with you. The reason why I say it's sensational are alot of the shots, ie when spidey is diving to save mary jane, that was a sweet shot, and other shots of goblin and spidey flying around together. great stuff, the rest terrible.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Abom

    by just pillow talk

    I assumed he had more, though I can't remember if they showed more than one in his 'secret vault'. I think I remember there being more goblin masks, but I believe that was at the end of the second one when he discovered it. But of course he didn't wear the mask anyways...

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Sony Pictures Imageworks sucks my dick

    by messi

    Worst major Effects company around. how they keep getting work at the amount they charge is beyond me. now they look set to do JLA, for what? 250 million dollars for digital characters that look fucking horrible and are still 3 years away from even Fellowship of the Ring standards. Fucking ridiculous. Fellowship came out in 2001, it was 2007 and the characters in I am Legend were years behind Fellowship. Fucking pathetic. And they did the mediocre effects in Spidey 3 for around 250 million(Okay it had 'more' effects but they weren't all convincing) and Bay did Transformers for 155 Million?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:14 a.m. CST

    messi...I tend to agree with you

    by just pillow talk

    and the giant sandman, not enough venom don't bother me as much as Pete strutting down the street, which is of course the worse part of the movie that just makes me cringe. For that scene alone, I have not purchased this DVD. And usually something like that wouldn't. I'm sure I'll eventually pick it up, but for like $5 or something.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Diggity-Jarv alien observations

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I agree that Burke later becomes a parallel of Ash, in that he is the Judas who betrays the humans. However, initially we're set up to think that Bishop, the synthoid, will betray the humans if anybody does, and we're given a couple scenes of Ripley freaking out about that (like in the mess hall).<p> Examining the motivations of Ash and Burke, I think they're the same--but different. Ash is a robot, and while he may have an opinion of the creature ("admires it," as Parker accuses), it is a clinical, perhaps at most an aesthetic admiration. But since he is a company android, he is merely the company's tool, so I think his 'decision' to allow Kane to be impregnated was more a result of his programming--he was following company orders by 'producing' an alien and keeping the humans out of the way wherever possible.<p> Burke on the other hand is quite human and shows a full range of emotions. He even seems like an okay guy at the start, very sympathetic toward Ripley's plight, the loss of her daughter and lack of employment. But yeah, later we see him sabotaging the facehugger tanks with the intention of impregnating Ripley and Newt. Like Ash, Burke becomes like an extension of the company, a tool. But unlike Ash, since Burke is human, there is immorality involved. As a person, he's got to know what he's doing is downright wrong, and yet he makes the conscious knowing decision to follow that course of action, I'm assuming because he hopes the company will reward him for his efforts (money, status, etc). <p>MEANWHILE, Cameron and the script writers do a great job of keeping Bishop at a distance for a while. They let us see him poking at a facehugger under a microscope silently, drawing a visual reference to Ash. Bishop even voices his fascination with the creature to a crewmember who asks if he needs anything. So even past the midway point we're not sure about Bishop. But it was a great reveal for me, at least, when Burke becomes the true bad guy while Bishop turns out to be something of a hero, crawling in the pipe to get to the uplink tower and manually call the dropship, knowingly jeopardizing his wellbeing for the humans (I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid). Good stuff

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:17 a.m. CST

    I mean, don't you see it?

    by NoDiggity

    Ash, the evil Alien-helping character knocks a possibly live facehugger on top of Ripley, scaring the shit out of her, as she fights to get the thing off of her. Along comes Cameron and sees this scene, and decides it's a cool scary moment he can use in his "sequel" and beefs it up a bit. Burke, the evil Alien helping character, deliberately releases LIVE facehuggers (as opposed to the one we were scare into thinking WAS live in the original) and we have a more extended struggle to fight the things off. I mean, do I have the general idea wrong or something? Just because the details and execution differ doesn't mean that it's ultimate source isn't plagiarism of the original script for ideas and scary moments.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Jarv, you THINK the command structure is different?

    by NoDiggity

    Completely, you say? Could you prove it, please? Why do both Ripley (second in command on the Nostromo) and the military second in command both survive? The parallels go further than that. Are you just going to throw it all away and ignore it?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:22 a.m. CST

    NoDiggity:The facehugger used acid to get ...

    by travis-dane

    through the helmet!They dont show it in the movie,but in the book it is clearly stated how the facehugger gets its way.In ALIENS the facehuggers are in

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv stop being such a geek

    by messi

    crap on every level means crap on every level. The crane scene was brilliant, that means that ones good level. years ago if someone had made a scene a quarter as long and half as good looking and put it online, fanboys would whack off to it. i'm just being specific here. that was a great scene. that is all.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:28 a.m. CST

    SHIT POSTED TO EARLY...

    by travis-dane

    So in Aliens the facehuggers are stored in stasistubes filled with liquid where they cannot use their acid to burn through the tube.The stasistubes are not big enough for them to use their powerfull tails to break out.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:29 a.m. CST

    Oh, Pazuzu, about Burke's motivation ...

    by NoDiggity

    Okay, he's not under orders like ASH was, but he's essentially the same character (only a more retarded one because he's human and should care about dying). In either case, he's a character who is actively working against the survival of his fellow human beings in order to bring back a live Alien specimen for profit. The superficial difference is that Ash was an Alien under Corporation orders, and Burke is working for individual ambition? That's "totally different" to you? It makes no difference to the story what his motivation is, it still involves sacrificing his fellow humans to the Aliens. It's the same character at the core. Don't ignore that, it makes you look retardedly stubborn.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:29 a.m. CST

    How weird would it have been

    by Abominable Snowcone

    If in Aliens we learn from Burke that Bishop is an "artificial person," yet later after all his nasty stuff, we learn that Burke too was a synthoid? Like, in the APT tank when Hicks and the other 'grunts' wanna kill Burke, but they don't. What if one of them (probably Hudson) just raised a pistol suddenly and blew Burke's brains out--only we see the brains and blood are a milky white. Then Hudson could echo Parker and say something like, "He's a goddamned robot!"<p> Just a different imagining. I'm sure it's better the way it is, with an actual human being the dick.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv, give me the "complete argument" now.

    by NoDiggity

    Because that was a major point of my original argument, the exact command structure parallels, even to the order of the deaths, and the way the deaths occurred in the command structure, and who in the command structure survived.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv god man you fucking geek

    by messi

    is that how you see movies. that it has to make up for the whole. it wasn't a good movie. but it wasn't super horseshit on an 'epic movie' scale. that crane sequence couldn't have been done 20 years ago, the way the camera moves and the superimposition, impossible. wake the fuck up geek. always this bullshit negativity where everything sucks.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:45 a.m. CST

    it's all relative Jarv.....

    by just pillow talk

    We all find some goodness in bad movies all the time. However, Messi, I don't think Jarv not liking Spidey 3 makes him a fucking geek. He thought it was shit, big deal. Many people had a problem with it.<p>For me, it was probably my biggest disappointment, and I held out hope beyond hope. Much like good Abom did too. We were jazzed to see this, especially have #2 kicked ass. And what did we get? A mess. I think there are scenes that do work in the movie, but overall, no. <p>You enjoyed Transformers...I did not. It was overlong with some dreadful characters in it (John T. just jumps out). I realize it was supposed to be a kiddie movie, but what the hell with the masturbation joke? The robots looked cool as hell, but I didn't really like the action since when two robots were fighting, it looked like they were melded together. Guess I'm a fucking geek.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Aliens & Spidey

    by Abominable Snowcone

    While I think that Ash knew what he was doing for the company when he allowed Kane to be impregnated, I agree with whoever said that Ash did NOT know if the facehugger was harmless after it came off. In other words, I really did believe Ash was as ignorant about its physiology as any of the other crew when he tried to laser-burn it off kane's face, and later, after it detatched and they were looking for it in the room. So I do NOT think he was trying to knock it down on Ripley or anything. I think he was simply trying to find it, like everyone else.<p> As for Spidey 3, I agree that even some of the 'meh' sequences did look great. Like even though I wasn't fond of the giant sandman, I did like some of the Venom battle visuals, especially when he swings in and blasts Spidey off the roof of the cab. But as far as technology, I don't think the effects in Spidey 3 topped anything in recent memory. In fact, some of the effects (like Spidey sweep-kicking Sandman's legs from underneath him on top of the bank truck) looked weak. To be honest, no movie FX have wowed me since I saw Toy Story in 1995. When I saw that, I was as literally impressed as one could be by the computer animation and the impact I thought it would have on the industry. At the time, I couldn't believe the WHOLE movie was an animation made by people sitting at computers, because it looked so awesome, and resembled nothing I'd seen before. Prior to Toy Story, I was kinda blown away by the T1000 in T2 and by the dinos in Jurassic Park. Today, though, while T2 is still a great movie, the liquid metal T1000 FX have not aged well.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Dutch 75/ Gheeker McGhee

    by DeckardBladeRunner

    Hey where are those two AVPRectum loving plants, there is ALIEN talk on this TB.... FOX PLANTS!!!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Dutch 75/ Gheeker McGhee

    by DeckardBladeRunner

    Hey where are those two AVPRectum loving plants, there is ALIEN talk on this TB.... FOX PLANTS!!!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST

    jesus you go to sleep for 8 hours...

    by occula

    ...and now we're talking about aliens? well - i actually had it on last night while i was working - and sorry, but at no point in time during the whole burke thing is the viewer specifically reminded of the sequence in alien with ash. there's no similarity at all. in fact there's no similarity between the two films whatsoever in terms of tone and story, unless you're talking about, well, both movies are about people fighting aliens. ok, that's a similarity.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:52 a.m. CST

    NoDiggity:DocPazuzu kicks ASS big TIME!

    by travis-dane

    I am reading TB`S for along time and I post since December,and I saw the Doc take out some trash!Take the two AvP2 TB`s and the Great Debaters TB where he kicked ASS!I am sure He can defend himself but It is just my observation of some TB`s.You on the other hand just go in circles on the same ALIENS is a remake of ALIEN SHIT!Yes there are similarities between the movies,but man,the differences are alot more.But a dude like you will never,ever give up his point of view,because you THINK you FIGURED it out BIG TIME!By the way NoDiggity:Who shot Kennedy?Burke or Ash(maybe both)?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:52 a.m. CST

    pillow talk and masturbation

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Funny you should bring that up. I was kinda surprised by that joke scene in Sam's bedroom, too. It just felt wildly out of place, like hey, I thought this was sort of a kid's movie. This feeling was especially strong for me, because my 8-year old daughter was sitting next to me at the time. She doesn't know what it meant, so when she asked I merely played dumb and acted like I didn't hear what had been said. It didn't offend ME personally, because almost nothing does, including the name of the heavy metal band Anal Cunt. But it did strike me as very weird to have an overt masturbation reference in what was marketed as a kids' movie. At one point you could even go online and have Optimus (Peter Cullen) call your house like Sam Jackson did for Snakes on a Plane. I guess what I'm saying is, the joke was not funny enough in the movie to warrant the blind-siding aspect of it, and in a movie about giant fighting robots filled with other kiddy slapstick moments, it seemed really unnecessary.<p> Now if you'll excuse me, I must masturbate.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Abominable Snowcone

    by That 70s Venom

    Hahaha, I loved your little thesis on Empire Strikes Back. Great movie. By the way, I agree about Sand Man at the end of Spidey 3, and yeah the whole movie should've just been about either Sand Man or Venom, not both, but I did like the way they did Venom. Topher Grace's one-liners in the final showdown are good, but we needed Venom's tongue to be longer and he spoke with "I" instead of "we". If they do Carnage in a later installment they need to dedicate the whole movie to him and leave other villains out of it to build up the character. By the way I think Carnage will be in one of the future installments because some of the symbiote was left behind with Dr. Connor in his lab. Remember?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Doc Pazazu vs. FOX Plants

    by DeckardBladeRunner

    Seriously, I need my fix of Doc fighting against the FOX Plants like the shuffling retarded FOX born Triffids that they are. Hit em' with your Flame thrower again Doc!!!! If their whoremasters allow them to come out today. BURN PLANTS BURN!!!!!! DECKARD BLADE RUNNER

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:55 a.m. CST

    the end of the great hat debate

    by occula

    as dictated by an actual professional costume designer, to all of you: the 'original hat' et al (meaning one piece each of the original costume, because all 'hero' costumes - meaning costumes that are especially important in a film - are made in duplicate at least, to cover damages that always occur) is in the smithsonian. therefore, it is logical to assume that NO, it is not the same hat. we now return to our regularly scheduled programming here on HAT FM. xiphos, thx for the ups...anytime you want useless information about the art department, i'm your man!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:58 a.m. CST

    how'd you know that was the name of my biography?

    by just pillow talk

    Yeah, it didn't bother me per se, but it just didn't belong. <p>That 70's Venom...Topher was probably my favorite new character. It's too bad he got shafted in terms of screen time and development. I was never a Carnage fan, I would rather see the Lizard.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:58 a.m. CST

    i like anal cunt

    by occula

    they're funny. 'you've...got...cancer!'

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST

    I watched the first Predator

    by Abominable Snowcone

    again last night. After the TBs last week and this week for AvP-R, I felt the need to return to when Aliens and Predators were cool. I'd forgotten that Arnold says a couple of his trademark lines in that movie. He says "stick around" after impaling a guy with a knife on a door, and he says "knock knock" after kicking his way in a room and RPGing the bad guys. That's just timeless cinema, people.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:03 a.m. CST

    Don't you know, Messi?

    by Rando Calrisian

    You aren't allowed to have an opinion for yourself in talkbacks? If you state that you like something that other people don't, you will be called a retard, an idiot, or much, much worse - talkbackers can be very creative when insulting people they don't know (for examples... continue reading this thread - I'm sure someone will call me a scum sucking gutter slug or something). <br> <br> I enjoyed All of the Indy movies, and I'm looking forward to this new one. And nothing that can be said about Indy's costume is going to make me enjoy the movies any less! <br> <br> I enjoyed ALL of the Spiderman movies, even though I thought the 3rd didn't live up to my own expectations. It was still pretty damn cool. <br> <br> I enjoyed all of Alien, and Aliens - they both KICK ASS in different ways. They are NOT the same movie even though they use similar characters and storylines. One is a "Monster in the house" story, one is a kick ass military movie. James Cameron did not steal anything from the first movie - he was hired to make s sequel. And he created possibly the greatest sequel ever made . Aliens is more satisfying than most original movies. (of course that is MY opinion and feel free to call me a retarded dick nose or something along those lines). <br> <br> The rest of the Alien movies are enjoyable too. And if you want to talk about "stealing" parts from movies - go see AVP2. That movie is a rip off from beginning to end... minus the teenage pizza delivery boy as archetypal hero - now that is original! <br> <br> Come on, people like different things in their movies - stop fighting and just be happy we get a new Indy movie at all. It will never be better than Raiders of the Lost Ark. It can't possibly be - it's a freakin' sequel. But it's going to be fun, and I'll see you there opening day!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Occula

    by Abominable Snowcone

    I know what you mean about the Indy hat and the smithsonian. I don't think most of us thought that the fedora FORD is wearing in Skull is the same one he wore in Raiders. Rather, I think the argument is, in JONES' WORLD, is the fedora(s) Indy wears in Skull the same one(s) from Raiders? For the answer to that question to be YES, Indiana Jones must have owned AT LEAST one of his trademark fedoras for the entire time of at least 1935-1957. Right? Yes, he might have duplicates of the same hat, but during all those years, given any multiples he may have owned, or any changes in fashion or what have you that may have transpired, for one of the Indy hats in Skull to be THE same as one INDY (not Ford the actor) wears in Doom (which occurs earlier than Raiders in time), Indy necessarily must have had AT LEAST one of those Fedoras for that long.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv:The HOFF was HUGE in GERMANY!

    by travis-dane

    When the WALL came down German TV flew him in to Perform "LOOKING FOR FREEDOM"in front of 2.000.000 people on new years eve!CRAZY SHIT RIGHT!I think he sold several MILLION ALBUMS here!He at one time sold more than MICHAEL JACKSON!So it is save to say:THE HOFF WAS BIGTIME in Germany!DONT HASSEL THE HOFF felas!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Snowcone

    by That 70s Venom

    Hell yeah, but you forgot "If it bleeds, we can kill it." and "What the hell are you?" ;) By the way, AVP-R had a shit load of McTiernan's Predator references in it, including Alan Silvestri's original musical score and the line "Get to the choppah!"

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:22 a.m. CST

    I HASSELED MY HOFF IN A PUBLIC BATHROOM ONCE

    by BringingSexyBack

    Hope there were no cameras.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:22 a.m. CST

    oh no, abominable...

    by occula

    i think nodiggity DOES think it's the same hat! hence, my post. i was just being a wanker. ;)

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Or it would be like watching a Hannah Montanna TV show, and Billy Ray Cyrus knocks on her bedroom door and asks, "Whatcha doin' in there, honey? You masturbatin'?"<p> Or it would be like walking down the aisle of a Toys R Us store with your daughter, and in the Barbie aisle you see a big display for "Dildo Action Barbie," whose arms not only swivel a full 360, but also pivot inwards between her legs for said purpose.<p> Or it would be like Clifford the Big Red Dog sticking his snoot into the second floor bedroom window of his owner, Emily, during one of their cartoon shows, and Emily is in bed and yells, "Not NOW Clifford! I'm Masturbating!"

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Best dialogue in PREDATOR:

    by travis-dane

    "You`re bleeding,man."VENTURA:"I aint got time to bleed!"other dude:"got time to duck?"BOOM BOOM BOOM!Love the movie!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Lost Jarv kill yourself

    by messi

    it was a shit film, but you say on every level, but the crane scene was good so it's not every level, i'm being petty but i hate the 'it sucks' absolute attitude. Second i'm the one with the foul mouth here cunt, so shut the fuck up fuckspoon.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Or it would be like Velma

    by Abominable Snowcone

    from Scooby Doo losing her glasses during one of the episodes, and doing the whole "I can't see without my glasses" fumbling bit, then her saying out of nowhere, "Jeepers, I guess I'll just stumble back to the Mystery Machine and play with my own cooch."

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Occula ...

    by NoDiggity

    of course it's not the same physical prop hat. Fuck, is that what you've been going on about?<br><br> I'm talking about in-story logic.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Best Joke in Predator:

    by Abominable Snowcone

    HAWKINS: Billy, I was goin' down on my girl the other day, and I sez, 'Jesus you got a big pussy, jesus you gotta a big pussy.' She sez 'Why'd you say that twice?' I sez, 'I didn't!'<p> FOLLOW-UP (also by Hawkins): Billy, I told my girl the other night, 'I'd like a little pussy' and she says 'So would I--mine's as big as a house!'

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:39 a.m. CST

    oh, for christ's sake!?

    by occula

    nodiggity, i, too, have now officially lost my patience with you. clearly you have a)no sense of humor and b)no sense of TB. get thee to a nunnery. goodbye.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 12:41 p.m. CST

    I always thought Alien was a horror movie...

    by crazyhorse2099

    <p>...and ALIENS was an action movie. Both great flicks, but entirely different movies in most every way.</p> <p>And forgive the comparison, but Pitch Black and Chronicles of Riddick did a similar sort of thing. Aside from some of the actors playing returning characters, the movies are completely different.</p>

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 12:52 p.m. CST

    BSB

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Is "Hassling Your Hoff" one of the many ways you brought sexy back? I'm bored, it's Friday, I think I'll walk around asking women in the office if they'd like to Hassle the Hoff. I'll ask, then I'll look down at my zipper and say, "Kitt good buddy, are you ready for spin? Engage super pursuit mode!" If I get slapped, so much the better. It's fun when they play hard to get.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Xiphos

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Community College is 13th grade?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:08 p.m. CST

    Oh, Lost Jarv, about you imitating Pazuzu ...

    by NoDiggity

    you just did it. He makes a stupid comment about the "archetype" comment getting me all worked up, and you copied his comment instantly. How's it feel to be a Pazuzu fanboy? Does it feel like being your own man? No, it doesn't, does it. It feels like being a yapping lapdog. Congratulations on your utter lack of self autonomy.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Hi Xiphos. How's it feel to be a yapping lapdog like Jarv?

    by NoDiggity

    How does it feel to be a mindless cretin who can only copy other people's stupid comments?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:15 p.m. CST

    and how does it feel to be a windy licker NoDiggity?

    by just pillow talk

    I think the short bus is coming...beep beep!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Vote FSM 2008!

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    I propose a bill to save the humpback whales preventing our inevitable destruction in the 23rd century!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:35 p.m. CST

    AVPR Creationism?

    by DeckardBladeRunner

    Were the aliens created in the garden of eden, intelligent design or EVOLUTION... feel free to discuss, Dutch 75? your thoughts?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:40 p.m. CST

    It is I who created them

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??? if so vote FSM 2008!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Occula

    by seniorspeilbergio

    Thanks for your reply. I agree about the design and see your point. A.I. only used futuristic design elements when the story called for it. I think sci-fi designers sometimes forget, no matter the level of technology, people like to live simply whenever they can. Society seems to be about streamlining our lives not filling it up with more tech and gizmos. This is the overstyilizing you're talking about. I actually find it only acceptable in a spaceship setting or zero gee environment but too many guys bring that philosophy to an earth based setting where it becomes an overdesign. You're comments about Minority Reports' style over substance tells me your of the form follows function school which I prefer, that's why I'm also a big fan of Ron Cobb. The over styilization of the 80's always bothered me a bit. I never understood why so much high tech stuff in 80's sci fi had to have exposed wires and pipes. Don't you want to cover up that stuff with panels? Then again the over streamlined corporate-slick look of modern Science fiction design bothers me too for it's lack of character. I like your comments about Speilberg. His abilitiy to keep on track and drop huge sequences because it doesn't fit the story is signs of a well disciplined storyteller. Too bad those instincts failed him with M.R. I bet dollars to donuts it was a rushed pre-production. I also remember an old quote from Lucas where he said, "too many filmmakers make the mistake in sci-fi movies of spending too much screen time on the environment when they should be getting on with the story". Wish more filmmakers thought that way. Even Blade Runner dwells on it a little too much but you know, somehow it works for me. And thanks for that link Occula. I'm going to check that out right now.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 1:50 p.m. CST

    But seriously

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    The Predator species probably evolved around a larger cooler star that gave off more infrared radiation...so their eyes followed suit and became most responsive to infrared…..I mean isn't it funny that our eyes are sensitive to the exact same kind of light that our Star (mostly) puts off?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:07 p.m. CST

    When You Think About It

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Earth isn't that great a place to sustain human life. I mean, it's capable of sustaining life, but it's mostly water--where people can't live. And between all the earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, global warming, cold midwest US winters, frequent droughts...shit. In Ohio, you can almost never go outside for any length of time without having to take extra time modifying your attire to protect you from the environment. Living here is deadly!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:11 p.m. CST

    I thought living in Ohio was deadly

    by just pillow talk

    to professional sporting teams?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Xiphos

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    hahah..yah i see what you mean. I went to a pretty respectable CC to save money before moving onto a 4 year and selling my soul for a little piece of paper. But you're right people were getting high in the parking lot!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:19 p.m. CST

    America:vote TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION 2008!

    by travis-dane

    He will RULE the world with: TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:20 p.m. CST

    excellent comments spielie!

    by occula

    i think in all honesty the only time the whole 'exposed wire' thing works is if it's giger's biomechanics - which aren't really exposed wires, but i'm speaking more of the overall visual - or if it's terry gilliam, who brings such a mad scientist-quality to it that we don't take it literally. help me think of a sf film where the visuals truly embrace form following function - are there any? anybody? xiphos? can you guys tell i'm trolling for new material for class?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:23 p.m. CST

    I'll second the nom for Total Fucking Destruction.

    by Al Swearengen

    Now that's a cocksucker I think could run a fuckin' government.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:25 p.m. CST

    pillow

    by Abominable Snowcone

    Definitely. Ohio sports teams are like wasting terminal illnesses. Instead of the Browns, Cavs and Indians, it should be the Aneurysms, Defibrillators and Malignant Dermatological Growths. In a way, I stopped giving a shit when Brian Sipe threw the interception against Oakland at the end of the '80 season. Or was it '81? I've tried to forget.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Occula

    by seniorspeilbergio

    2001 is always the king. Basically designed by NASA unofficially. Code 46 is nice and extremely understated. And I agree about Giger and Gilliam. Gilliam works, I think because his stuff takes place in the past. Common perception is everything is rough and dirty. it sells the history. It's human society with the frayed edges not filed down by the industrial revolution yet.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:32 p.m. CST

    oh yeah...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    I always liked 2010 also. The ships a little too roomy but other than that I like it (just the production design and cinematography though, not the story). Also I love the look of Outland, one of the most underrated science fiction films ever.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Mr.Swearengen:Let`s have a drink in THE GEM on:

    by travis-dane

    TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:37 p.m. CST

    yeah, maybe i should stick with 2001

    by occula

    i always forget to teach it because the kids in my class - OK, they aren't kids, they're adults - are usually of a generation that never bothered with 2001. they're like 'whuh?' which gets aggravating when you're up there like a performing monkey trying to instill a love of the craft into them. however, maybe tough shit. and code 46 totally went off my radar! thanks for the heads-up, i will investigate.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Fuckin' travis-dane

    by Al Swearengen

    The Gem will back your play by offering my personal $50 dollar bounty to every no-good cocksucker who votes for the fine, upstanding Total Fucking Destruction. May God bless the souls of those other poor candidates left holding their prick in the wind.<P>And pussy is half-price the next fifteen minutes.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:43 p.m. CST

    awwwww

    by occula

    xiphos i love that you love the good ship serenity. i love her too, she gives me warm fuzzies. actually technically speaking one of the best-designed ships in the lexicon is the borg cube. it's kind of spazzy with all the exposed wires that spielie and i deplore, BUT the fact that it's a cube is brilliant, because a ship in space doesn't have to be streamlined in any form since space is a vacuum. i worked on a design project some years ago with NASA and JPL designing a theoretical deep-space radio telescope and, yes, it's true, NASA loves to get artists in there and then bogart their designs for actual projects. tricksy bastards.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Right on Mr.Swearengen,Dan should sharpen...

    by travis-dane

    his KNIFE for:TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION!The drink`s on ME SIR!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:46 p.m. CST

    travis-dane

    by Al Swearengen

    Huzzah then!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST

    I hope we are READY when...

    by travis-dane

    TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION hits YOUR fine place SIR(hope he shows up soon)!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Xiphos

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    good call on Equilibrium

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Abom...your damn Browns crushed my Jet spirits

    by just pillow talk

    in '86 I believe with that overtime win. But then of course they killed all of Cleveland by going to Baltimore. Sons of bitches. At least you have this year's Browns to be proud of. Except that your 'other' Ohio team killed off their playoff chances.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Occula

    by Ray Garraty #47

    My filmgeekery is more of the JV variety as opposed to some of the varsity players on here, but what about the Abyss? The moonpool, the pressurized doors and hatches, the claustrophobic hallways built to withstand the pressure of deep sea. I also thought of an "opposite" - Event Horizon. There were a ton of rooms on that ship that in reality would be completely impractical. If that is even what you are talking about.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:22 p.m. CST

    dudes, all brillz!

    by occula

    these are fantastic, you guys. thank you so much, i'm literally re-working my syllabus as i write. you know ray i might do a mention of cameron films in general as a director who pays very close attention to the realities of design (titanic, abyss), awesome tip. xiphos, yes, a pyramid i believe has been done...drumroll...STARGATE! *cue dork claps* orcus, i teach production design at an art school. i've bailed out of actual production and now only do concept design and previz, but i still like teachin'.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:24 p.m. CST

    MORE BEAR PORN!

    by finky089

    Grizzlies Gone Wild 8! <p> Uh, ok, I guess if Jarv couldn't start it, I ain't gonna even try. <p> I can't believe that ASSPICKLE NoDouchety up there......

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:27 p.m. CST

    oh, equilibrium

    by occula

    i forgot to note: yes, equilibrium is a dope movie and a personal fave. you know i might mention it in the same group with aeon flux, logan's run, and other films that utilize constructivist-influenced architecture as important visual cues. plus, you know, christian bale in the white suit, extremely hot.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:32 p.m. CST

    And ORCUS for VICE-PRESIDENT...

    by travis-dane

    imagine that guys!TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION and ORCUS talking about PEACE ON EARTH!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:39 p.m. CST

    bahahahaha

    by occula

    i've never seen the tv show...i was talking about the moobie. remember when crying game dude wanders out of his village and down comes the big pyramid ship on top of the actual pyramid building? or something like that. anyhow, pyramid. it's an excellent idea and it's not your fault that big douchebag emmerich got to it first.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:40 p.m. CST

    You must really be getting desperate, NoDiggity.

    by DocPazuzu

    I can understand how facing a compact wall of resistance and derision can rattle your ass, but Jarv and the other fine folks who oppose you certainly don't need me for that. Besides, I've borrowed and stolen plenty of things they've said on occasion when it suits a purpose. I think you're seeing too many "command structures" where they don't exist. <p> You're about one step away from entering zfisk/homewrecker territory with that shit, son.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:48 p.m. CST

    bravo xi

    by occula

    i feel a little like hansel in zoolander - 'can i call you xi?' bravo for owning your man crush, i think the majority of us round here agree. that's interesting about the gun kata - didn't kurt wimmer invent it in his backyard, or something like that? or maybe he 'invented' it by stealing it from the marines.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Imagine DocPazuzu as SECRETARY OF DEFENSE...

    by travis-dane

    wow,HE would destroy everything that`s wrong on this PLANET,together with:TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION!And ORCUS.Come on DocPazuzu you know it is your DESTINY!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:07 p.m. CST

    travis-dane

    by Al Swearengen

    Calm the fuck down.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:11 p.m. CST

    other Indiana Jones hat suggestions

    by zooch

    A fruit Hat<br> A viking helmet<br> royal british guard hat<br> a rastafarian beanie<br> jester hat<br> sombrero<br> fitted baseball hat tilted to the side<br> novelty "over the hill" hat

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:12 p.m. CST

    jesus christ, you're a marine?!

    by occula

    everybody should mind their ps and qs around you, then! plus if anybody sasses you too much, can't you access the secret gov'mint database that tracks everybody's computer and hunt them down and make them disappear? KEWL. you can see i'm a giant ignoramus. oh, i have seen that show, it's hy-larious. especially when it took me myself YEARS to get a proper black belt in anything.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:23 p.m. CST

    i am a lesbonym

    by occula

    i have black belts in tae kwon do, hap ki do and ju-do. and i have a double black belt in FILM DORKERY!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:24 p.m. CST

    Thought I give it a shot Mr.Swearengen...

    by travis-dane

    but since the AICN TB`s are not so heavy in POLITICS,looks like I failed!At least I tried.So long then,back to the hat thing.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:27 p.m. CST

    just to bring it back on track, sort of...

    by occula

    maybe when i talk about cameron in class i will also talk about spielberg, since both of them place such emphasis on the synthesis of story and visuals. cameron's stories might seem more bombastic, but, as with spielberg, he knows how to work the archetypes and to place them firmly within his created worlds. 'raiders' really does remain one of the most perfect examples of that - the reluctant hero with whom we identify or admire because of his everyman qualities succeeding within a fantastical construct.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:40 p.m. CST

    School's in, NoDiggity.

    by DocPazuzu

    1) In the lab scene Ash does NOT drop, dump, prod or otherwise cause the facehugger to fall on Ripley. In fact, Ash, Ripley and Dallas split up to search the lab and Ash is NOWHERE NEAR Ripley when the thing falls on her. He is at the far end of the lab prodding a dark corner when the facehugger drops onto Ripley from above the table Kane is stretched out on. Maybe Ash used the Force or robotic telekinesis to dislodge it? <p> The scene of Ash prodding the corner is also shot so that we – not the others – can see Ash’s very tense face as he explores, suggesting that he doesn’t know where the thing is or even that it’s dead. He also advises Ripley to avoid looking in dark corners without using that lighty-pointy thing. <p> What we do know is that Ash knows about the impregnation of Kane, and figures the facehugger’s death is part of its life cycle and that the real prize is in Kane’s chest. <p> 2) The facehugger melted through Kane’s helmet with its acid blood. The live facehuggers in Aliens are kept in liquid-filled canisters to prevent the acid from allowing their escape. <p> 3) Regarding the similar “explosion finale”: Who suggests nuking the site from orbit? Ripley, who has had previous experience with that kind of solution. If it worked once, why not again? As it is, it’s not necessary since the facility blows up anyway, but how else could the colony have been wiped out? Please provide an alternative solution which would not be believable and not “plagiarism”. <p> 4) Your command structure theory, which I’m sure you’re very proud of, is completely fucked from beginning to end. Ripley is indeed second-in-command on the Nostromo, but Hicks is not second-in-command on the Sulaco. Apone is, and he gets wasted fairly early in the game. So much for that parallel. <p> 5) Of course Burke is worried about his own life, otherwise the cowardly fuck wouldn’t have run away. His greed, however, made him stupid and he thought the Marines would be sufficient protection. <p> One of the underlying themes in all the Alien flicks is keeping the snake (alien) out of Eden (Earth) and the difference between selling out for greed and sacrificing for the greater good. To lose this dynamic is to make an Alien film that’s not an Alien film at all. Call it plagiarism if you will, but it just goes to show that you fail to grasp one aspect of what makes the movies work. <p> Your ridiculous, petty and disturbing fixation on drawing parallels between items of ludicrous minutiae in the Alien films while completely ignoring the vast differences between the movies makes you look like a complete idiot, just so you know. You’re not in the slightest bit clever or incisive. You’re simply a world champion mental masturbator who can’t even hold his own lame theories together. <p> I can do this all week long if you like.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Oh and NoDiggity...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...I raised a few points in my previous multi-point post which you have so far ignored.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:44 p.m. CST

    point 3

    by DocPazuzu

    should read "which would be believable".

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 4:58 p.m. CST

    That was the ASSKICKING I meant earlier...

    by travis-dane

    NoDiggity,now it is your turn,and thanks for bringing the facehugger thing up again DocPazuzu,my post was torn in two(my bad)and overlooked somehow,and your english is better!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 5:26 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu

    by systemsbroom

    Not to risk the ire of many here on this bloated talkback, but NoDiggity is right that there are parallels between Alien and Aliens. These parallels probably are at least on some level deliberate (not that that makes much of a difference to a viewer), and I can see somebody liking a second (or third, or fourth, or quasi-fifth/sixth) Alien movie less for them. <P> I mean, depending on what level of abstraction you go for, the Alien movies feature a mysterious monster whose threat is initially underestimated, but who eventually destroys almost all the main characters, but not before the narrative demonstrates both that the main characters are largely impotent to stop the monster, and that the *real* monster is actually some distant, unfeeling human institution, and its agents. Who also get destroyed/thwarted. And you can draw more parallels than that, if you like--it's all a perception thing. <P> I guess a person can say that the thematic/plot/character parallels one perceives in the movies cheapens later films for them, and that's their opinion. If what you really enjoyed about Alien was the progressive body horror and the dark psychology of the movie, then the echos of that stuff in Aliens might prevent you from really enjoying the bughunt elements. <P> Anyway, "rehash" is probably too strong of a word, but I think that it's undeniable that all sequels get at least a little bit of a free ride courtesy of their predecessors.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:03 p.m. CST

    systemsbroom

    by DocPazuzu

    Of course there are parallels, and I mentioned at least one recurring theme in my post. NoDiggity's assertion, however, is that Alien and Aliens in particular are virtually identical. The parallels he finds, most of which are highly tenuous, are what he chooses to focus on rather than the much larger and more interesting differences between the two films.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:21 p.m. CST

    NoDiggity in a nutshell:

    by DocPazuzu

    1) Film "A" has a figure who has, say, two predominate yet relatively common characteristics. <p> 2) The sequel, film "B", has TWO figures, each of which is colored by one of the aforementioned common characteristics. <p> 3) According to NoDiggity, not only is film "B" a plagiarist work, but the filmmakers either tried to hide this fact by creating two figures, or were such hacks that they couldn't create a complex enough figure to contain both characteristics. <p> 4) Let's say film "A" on the other hand had TWO figures dominated by differing but common characteristics, and the sequel, film "B", had ONE figure comprised of both characteristics. <p> 5) NoDiggity would trot out the SAME accusations of plagiarism and hackery, but this time because the filmmakers cheapened the original, complex figure by creating two "one-dimensional" figures instead. <p> It's virtually impossible to reason, debate or argue with that kind of mentality.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:25 p.m. CST

    Amen, Doc.

    by Rando Calrisian

    Nice. Been enjoying this frusteratingly painful thread all day... why? Because I have nothing better to do either. <br> <br> BTW has anyone ever noticed how Teen Wolf 2 is almost an exact fuckin rip off of Teen Wolf?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:40 p.m. CST

    article over at spielbergfilms.com

    by AllieJamison

    Somehow...this TB is quite impressive. And I thought that a hint at that quite interesting INDY IV article by James Clarke over at spielbergfilms.com wouldn't be that out of place right now. (Although I'm not sure if there's the possibility of something being "out of place" in a TB.) I haven't even finished reading it yet, but halfway through found that it contained a nice collection of crucial thoughts regarding Indy's return. Just read it already!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:45 p.m. CST

    To this day, I have never seen Teen Wolf Too

    by finky089

    And watching it now would only cuase me to lose the bit of respect I have for Bateman from Arrested Development. <p> Besides, Teen Wolf was all about Styles to me anyway.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:45 p.m. CST

    Thanks or the tip-off AllieJ

    by finky089

    Good to see ya around this nuthouse again...

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:49 p.m. CST

    i'm trying to read the article...

    by occula

    ...but i keep drifting off to check out icanhascheezburger and dlisted. too over-the-top, guy! plus, i don't think i'd call 'stir of echoes' powerful. citizen kane is powerful. but maybe i'm just a nasty bitchy cynic who's bored on a friday afternoon. i'd rather talk about teen wolf 2, honestly. they should remake it starring michael cera. how meta would that be?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:52 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu

    by systemsbroom

    Ok, thanks for the clarification--I've only been skimming the many (many) posts on this thread. <P> So why do you guys keep arguing?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 6:56 p.m. CST

    "So why do you guys keep arguing?"

    by DocPazuzu

    Because... <p> THIS! IS! TALKBAAAAAAAACK!!!!!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:05 p.m. CST

    By the way, folks...

    by DocPazuzu

    FREE MR. NICE GAIUS!!! <p> Go tell your friends.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 7:19 p.m. CST

    monkeywrench

    by occula

    just to throw something else into this thread's pot, and since the AICN dewds haven't bothered yet, did anybody see the new bond girl's been confirmed? she is GUH-OR-GEOUS!

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:08 p.m. CST

    Crystal Skull

    by dasheight

    There is no possible way that this could be as good as "Raiders". That was a singular experience, and actually felt like a film aimed at adults. "Doom" was darker, but more cartoonish. "Crusade" was a full-out cartoon. This, I fear, will tread the same waters that "Crusade" did and will be an all-out kids movie. "Raiders" is, and always will be the best of the series - it's the only genuine classic in the bunch, and the only one that felt like there were real human beings in it. It had dirt and grit. The films, as they've progressed, have become too "clean" in a lot of ways. Based on Cate Blanchett's photo, I fear this will be more of the same. She doesn't look like a real human being. She looks like an artist's conception of one. Spielberg and Lucas aren't hungry anymore. I REALLY hope this movie will kick ass, but I'm afraid it may go even further into kid-flick territory. Where did the danger go?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Xiphos

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    It really sounds like I should watch Ultimate Weapon, thanks for the heads up on that. I love martial arts and that show sounds cool and amusing. I know Discovery is going to have something similar this year, Fight Quest I believe. Have you ever taken a look at Krav Maga and if so are the techniques similar to your CQB training? The emphasis is on hand-to-hand but there are also offense and defense training for knives, etc. I recently got into it and have just advanced to white belt, meaning, I am now a Grasshopper Level 1, as opposed to a "Nothing":) Equilibrium was sweet, by the way.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 8:51 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    Nice response to systemsbroom. Also, I'm sorry NoDiggity, I have only skimmed the Alien = Aliens argument so far, but based on what I remember of the films and comparing it against what's been said it certainly appears that the good doctor has point for point served your arguments their collective ass. Maybe you can admit that you took the parallels a little too far? ... [crosses fingers]

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Dallas=Gorman, Kane=Apone, Ripley=Hicks

    by NoDiggity

    THE 1ST IN COMMAND: Dallas, the captain of the Nostromo, is replaced by Lt. Gorman, the marine leader. Both are slipshod, ineffective leaders whose bad decisions are partly responsible for deaths among their men. Both ignore Ripley's good advice. Both mean well, but cannot handle pressure, and panic at critical moments. Both are killed or KOed during the 2nd monitored mission (Dallas in the airducts, while monitored on the motion detector, Gorman while in the tunnels with a squad, monitored via camera), leaving Ripley effectively in command. THE SECOND IN COMMAND: As alien host, Kane is replaced by the colonists (see above), but as second in command he is replaced by Sargeant Apone, who holds this position among the marines. Apone, like Kane, is the first significant character to die (Some non-descript marines die with him, but they had no lines). Apone also becomes an alien host, but this occurs off screen. THE THIRD IN COMMAND: In Alien, Ripley was 3rd in command, and took charge after Kane and Dallas died. For continuity reasons, Ripley cannot hold this capacity among a squad of marines, so she is replaced in this capacity by Corporal Hicks, who assumes command when his superiors are KOed. Hicks functions as Ripley's marine shadow. He agrees with everything she says and follows all her advice, making her the de facto leader at this point. Interestingly, Hicks is the only marine to survive to the end of the film. Also, Lambert, the panicky whiny crew member from ALIEN is replaced by Hudson, the panicky marine. Parker the tough non-white (black) mechanic is replaced by Vazquez, the tough non-white (hispanic) Marine. Both Parker and Vasquez die heroically AFTER their sidekick/team-mate (Brett/Drake) get it.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Oh, and of course, Jones the Cat equals Newt.

    by NoDiggity

    "The small one" who Ripley has to go back and rescue before taking off from the about-to-explode/be-nuked facility. Is a little girl a more compelling reason to heroically delve into a facility infested with aliens than a cat? Sure, but it's still a place holder for an original live creature from the original film.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Opening scenes of Temple of Doom are the best

    by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World

    From the opening scene in the club all the way to airplane, one of the better and creative action/adventure scenes created

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Oh, and the coccooned colonists scene in ALIENS

    by NoDiggity

    That's "original" to ALIENS only because the scene with a coccooned Dallas in ALIEN was deleted from that film.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:11 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu, Ripley is THIRD in Command as is HICKS.

    by NoDiggity

    I mistyped before. Now what do you have to say? Are you claiming that they aren't both third in command? Are you claiming that they don't both survive the film? Do you seriously believe that this mirroring of command structure is accidental?

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:24 p.m. CST

    Pazuzu's Willingness to Lie to "win" a point.

    by NoDiggity

    When I mistyped that Ripley and Hicks were both "second" in command, Pazuzu pointed out that Hicks was not second in command (correctly) but FAILED to point out something he obviously knew ... that both were actually THIRD in command. Which was my point. The both inhabited the same position in the command structure, and both survived the film.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 10:30 p.m. CST

    Here's Pazuzu Bullshitting ...

    by NoDiggity

    "Ripley is indeed second-in-command on the Nostromo, but Hicks is not second-in-command on the Sulaco." WRONG. Ripley is third in command on the Nostromo, and so is Hicks on the Sulaco. This is what happens, Pazuzu, when you bullshit instead of being honest.

  • Jan. 4, 2008, 11:12 p.m. CST

    Thanks Xiphos

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    The philosophy of the "total weapon system"--making the absolute most out of the inherent capabilities of the human body really appeals to me. Ultimate Weapon sounds great, if I can catch it.

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 4:23 a.m. CST

    Temple of Doom opening

    by Prossor

    agreed guy who got headache, it was a trip how much space it covered. the white tux with red flower is just like out of Golfdinger's opening with Connery

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 4:23 a.m. CST

    i mean

    by Prossor

    Goldfinger. Golfdinger now that's something...

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 4:40 a.m. CST

    Well, NoDiggity...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...I have to admit that I really did remember Ripley as being second-in-command and do concede that I was wrong on that point. However, you still haven't shown how it is relevant in any way. If a huge Alien fan like me didn't even pick up on it, how the hell would it matter to anyone else? It's a non-issue. <p> Also, you are still wrong about everything else. <p> 1) Gorman isn't "monitored" by camera on what you call his "second" mission at all. Fleeing for your life from Alien hordes is hardly a "mission" and who was monitoring him at that point? <p> 2) The similarities between poor leadership qualities you attempt to draw between Dallas and Gorman also fails. Dallas is trained more or less as a tugboat captain in space. He was in over his capacities from the very beginning but considering that, he did quite well initially conceiving the air duct plan. And he certainly wasn't a coward. He volunteered and went into the tunnels himself. <p> Gorman, on the other hand, was rained as a combat soldier and failed on that level which makes him a worse leader than Dallas. <p> 3) Thank you for proving my point about your mentality by equating Kane's impregnation in Alien with that of hundreds of colonists in Aliens. On the one hand you consider the nameless, faceless, voiceless masses of colonist victims to equal the developed character of Kane. On the other hand, you dismiss the marines who die before Apone as line-less and "non-descript". You pick and choose when minor figures become important and useless only when it fits your lame theories. <p> 4) What, exactly, does it signify that Ripley becomes the "de facto" leader in Aliens even though it's a military mission under Hicks's command? In Alien, she WAS the next in command when her time came. Don't see the parallel. <p> 5) Lambert is a whiny loser from beginning to end. Hudson starts out as a cocky ass, becomes a whiny bitch, and ends up a badass before croaking. Again, weak parallel at best. <p> 6) Singling out Vasquez as a "tough non-white" in contrast to the other tough and non-tough white and non-white marines smacks of trying to score cheap points off of race when they don't exist. This is especially apparent when one compares the supposed other "partners", Brett and Drake, which aren't exactly mirror images of each other in looks, age or demeanor. Lame.

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 4:42 a.m. CST

    Also, NoDiggity...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...the second-in-command thing is the only item you've brought up after all those points I made debunking your theories. <p> That's pretty fucking weak.

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 5:45 a.m. CST

    I feel dirty...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...even stooping to discussing your unbelievably idiotic assertion that Newt's and Jones's small stature and status as "original live creatures" to be rescued by Ripley is enough to equate them with each other. <p> Apart from being a jump-scare prop, Jones is mostly M.I.A. throughout most of the movie and no sentimental value is attached to him at all until the end when Ripley tries to rescue him. Newt, on the other hand, is a living, breathing character who stays in the forefront of the narrative and fills a much more poignant role in Ripley's world than the fucking cat does. <p> Also, Ripley dumps Jones's ass when the Alien shows up and never actually actively goes after him after that. She stumbles upon his carrying case on the way to the shuttle and brings him along. <p> In Aliens, however, Ripley descends into the depths of Hell to actively rescue Newt with her own life very much at stake. <p> What the fuck is wrong with you anyway?

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 7:45 a.m. CST

    Temple of Doom opening = genius

    by kwisatzhaderach

    back when Spielberg was firing on all cylinders and wasn't trying to be a 'serious' filmmaker.

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 12:19 p.m. CST

    second, third in command...how

    by TheManBehindTheMask

    Now, it's a real fan treat to read DocPaz and nodiggity debate (although parts of it are well...pointless to say the least) To me alien/Aliens works a bit like T1/T2, same story foundation (nodiggity is right about that) but indeed treated differently (DocPaz is right about that), kind of "mirror" movies. That's why the first 2 are so connected and for a lots of fans are the only "real" Alien's movies. Sorry if my english is bad sometimes, I'm french and this is my "First!" post on ACN. Now, can't wait for Indy 4!!!

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 2:26 p.m. CST

    This Person is Equal to That Person Theory

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    FIRST IN COMMAND: Dallas' is a weary, down-and-dirty ol' space trucker. Gorman is a clean-cut green military officer straight out of school who struggles to gain respect from the more experienced marines he commands. Overall, Dallas' decisions and capabilities were good and reasonable and even brave such as him taking the flamethrower into the vents. I don't remember him freezing up in panic like Gorman. When he saw the alien in the ducts it was too late for him to do anything. Gorman makes a few by-the-book orders until shit hits the fan then just sits and watches the situation and himself fall apart. And despite a bad Dallas decision being his ordering Ripley to let them inside after picking up the facehugger, who wouldn't do the same? Alright, so they're both leaders, they both die mid-way through the action, but saying Gorman=Dallas is tenuous at best. <p>SECOND IN COMMAND: First, The Colony = Kane, on the implantation side. Then Apone = Kane, on the "first significant character to die" side. A superficial similarity to Kane is seriously weakened by dilution of the essential plot functions of the character into two separate entities, Colony and Apone (the functions being first to die, which isn't even technically true for Apone, and first to get implanted, in which not even close)</p>THIRD IN COMMAND: So now Ripley = Hicks + Ripley. If you solve for the variable subtracting Ripley from both sides one is left with Hicks = 0. Therefore his equivalence to Ripley as "Person who is third and command and survives" makes him a meaningless addition, since who needs him when we have Ripley to fill the role? Ridiculous. Aside from some superficial similarities having merit, the characters and plot are sufficiently different to not warrant "equals" comparisons. The rest of the argument like the Vasquez = Parker thing distills a few very superficial qualities and sees them as being sufficient to equate characters with each other. It's only surface similarities more than negated by the overall characters. It's looking for little things and then attaching to them a significance that's out of proportion to the big picture that lead to things like The Bible Code.

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Cheers, 'Cholera.

    by DocPazuzu

    That explanation was much better and more thorough than mine. I'm sure the response we get (if at all) will be mind-boggling and surreal.

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah, and...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...FREE MR. NICE GAIUS!!!

  • Jan. 5, 2008, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Temple of Doom opening = George Lucas' idea

    by wackybantha

    According to the making of documentary on the DVD set, Lucas insisted that Spielberg film it for the opening. Good job!

  • Jan. 7, 2008, 6:30 a.m. CST

    Free Mr. Nice Gaius!

    by just pillow talk

    Is he still locked in purgatory Doc?

  • Jan. 7, 2008, 6:40 a.m. CST

    never mind...I see in the Supe Returns thread...

    by just pillow talk

    Mori has addressed it.

  • Jan. 7, 2008, 12:34 p.m. CST

    he wasn't able to access his account or something

    by just pillow talk

    like that. I believe the mods have corrected his problem now.

  • Jan. 7, 2008, 1:48 p.m. CST

    probably sent Doc a zone message...

    by just pillow talk

    aren't they (passwords, etc) completely separate from TB id? <p>I don't follow you on the Orcus get elected as VP thing though.

  • Jan. 7, 2008, 5:46 p.m. CST

    TO ORCUS:I dont wanted to rib you or DOC...

    by travis-dane

    or TFD but as I made those POSTS I just saw that HUCKEBEE dude win some election in your country!And since I thought that the greatest idiot was already running your country(looks I was wrong),I thought I NOMINATE NOT ELECT some TB`s that seem to be no ASSHOLES and are funny dudes!But since allmost nobody jumped on the Train,I stopped(which I stated above in a POST)!Sorry if I offended you,it was not my intention!

  • Jan. 8, 2008, 9:46 a.m. CST

    FLAMING LEG KICK = Tony Jaa in Ong Bak

    by just pillow talk

  • Jan. 9, 2008, 9:02 a.m. CST

    with the disgustingly UNbearlike hat Orcus...

    by just pillow talk

    34974 will answer your questions, or perhaps bring to light new ones (disturbing ones, I'm sure)...

  • Jan. 9, 2008, 10:07 a.m. CST

    you're beary welcome

    by just pillow talk