Cool News
One We Missed: CHUD’s Kickass TERMINATOR 4 Details!
Hey, everyone. ”Moriarty” here.
I’ve been so busy this week that even though I read a great story posted by Devin Faraci over on CHUD, I forgot to link to it. And trust me... this is one that’s worth a talkback.
I can’t get over the awkwardly silly title of TERMINATOR SALVATION: THE FUTURE BEGINS, which just seems excessive. But it sounds like something interesting is going on with the development of this one.
Check out what Devin sent... you’ll see what I mean. And while you’re over at CHUD, you might check out this other piece by Devin, one of the best things he’s written in his time online.
Who is the lead character of Terminator 4? What familiar characters from the past show up? What kind of Terminators will we see? The answers are here!
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never thought that would happen
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I didn't know it was going to be a trilogy. That's kinda cool. Let's face it, we've ALL wanted to see the future depicted in T1 onscreen for YEARS! If it's done right, it could be spectaclular, if not, we might get Charlie's Angels. (McG, you're not that funny.)
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I mean I'm all for another Terminator movie but it seems like they are gonna milk this cow until it tits are sore.
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Naturally.
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Why does every movie today have to be part of a trilogy? With Terminator we already got three films, and even though they should make up for that joke of a film t3, they can´t. They fucked it up. Let it die. Oh, no. I see it coming..Terminator-Talk in here for eternity now..jeesh..
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one of the things mentioned in Invisotext in CHUD. Limitted Connor action, very little Reese? It sounds suckish at this point. Reese and Connor are the ones we've been waiting for.
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That could be a suitable title.
Is it really so hard to think a fresh thought? I know alot has been done already, I´m not saying every movie has to be something completely new, but come on..T4, 5 and fucking 6??? -
This film sounds worse by the minute. First they cast Christian - Batman - Bale and make a big fuss over it, and so us fans get all excited. It now turns out that the John Connor role is actually pretty small - again no wonder Bale signed , big payday small effort!!!
The fact they made a big deal out of Bale signing worries me!
It sounds to me like they are messing with the whole mythology of the Terminator franchise. Surely there is already a built-in story as to how future war movies have to go? It has already been established that the resistance capture a T-800 Terminator (maybe more than 1) and send him back as a protector. They also send Kyle Reese back in Terminator 1. The T-800 also assassinates John Connor at some point (I know this contradicts that John Connor led the resistance in defeating Skynet - they can get round this by saying that he led them to a point before he was killed!). Anyway what I am saying is that any future terminator movie really has to address these points and show them happening on screen. Yes you can make up new characters and have new conflicts, but you have to stay within the logic and mythology of the existing movies (Yea i know T3 Messed with it a little). They also have to finally address how this Time Travel stuff really works, how it affects time lines (alternate universes or something else).
Having no return of Arnold and very little John Connor involvement just does not make sense to the story. If they cant do this film right - do not do it at all, there is no point just making a movie to make money!
This film will tank! -
I think the only way to go with Arnie is do him in CG. Give him a slight rubbery skin look. Make thousands of them.
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This thing about John Connor not being the main character is OLD NEWS. So is the fact that this is the first in a planned new trilogy.
It's been reported months ago.
On this very website.
What's new and interesting here is the part about human brains in robot bodies.
This is a really cool direction for the Terminator story because it enhances the Cyberpunk part of it - the theme of Man becoming Machine vs Machine becoming Man.
It's a sign these filmmakers are thinking. -
If this Marcus is such a badass, why isn't he the leader of the resistance? This sounds terrible.
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to make a Terminator movie that takes place all in the future. I'm sick of watching young John Connor and people time traveling, it gets old. they keep showing flashes of the future with the ships and the robots but we never get a whole movie. granted i am looking forward to the TV show but maybe it's because nothing else will be on.
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. . . to finally see O.J. as a terminator?
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don't tell anyone.While everyone has wanted to see the actual future wars with the machines, I'm not sure how this'll be if the main character is someone other than Conner. I guess I'll have to wait and see, and I still don't like the director but will withhold final judgment (day)...
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"This is gonna suck balls, blah, blah, blah"
C'mon people give the movie a fucking chance. I for one love the Terminator flicks and will wait to cast my judgment until I actually see the movie. -
Your momma wears combat boots.
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I was in the minority that enjoyed T3. Hopefully McG has grown up a little bit since Charlie's Angels and just needed to get it out of his system. I'm digging the idea of FINALLY SEEING the future war that we've been teased with so many times during the life of this franchise. Christian Bale + post apoclyptic word = awesome. Reign of Fire anyone? That was a damn fine underrated flick.
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that Christian bale isn't in this. Here's to hoping that it's epic.
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read that wrong. i'm still waking up.
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nice TB handle. Rickey likes.
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will play as a big a role, at least in the first one. And I enjoyed Reign of Fire, though I wish they had broaden the scope of the Dragons vs. Man Battle. And I thought T3 was okay, but that's more based upon the ending than anything else. And Kristanna Loken's hotness of course. She would have definitely killed me. Why hello there...you're quite the hot...AAAARRRGGHHHH! It would be a good death.
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I did post about this from Dark horizons. which had the story three days as did others.
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Not fucking John Conner!! I'll give this movie a chance, but I can already smell a turd; a big fat juicy turd, you know, the ones you get after eating McDonalds breakfast.
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...is (presumably) in a coma for the best part of a decade then wakes up and joins the resistance? I'm assuming he is so badass as to be immune to muscle atrophy. Really not holding any hope for this being any good. T3 was awful except for the last 5 minutes, which were a flash of brilliance in an otherwise dull movie. I still can't get over the fact that McG is making it!? Fuck, I can't get over the fact that he chose that name for himself...vowels fuckhead, use them! I think I'm gonna give Trmntr Slvtn a miss.
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how in a nuclear holocaust w/ everybody starving and looking like concentration camp survivors, nobody could spot a Terminator like Arnie that looks like he eats protien shakes and chicken 7 times a day, and has at least two gym memberships. I mean really you need a dog to spot a guy that's neck is thicker than your thigh?
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Everyone's eye site is shit.
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Holocaust survivor: "Well...at least I have my books."
drops glasses on the ground & breaks them.
Holocaust survivor: "No...NOOO!!" -
It was the ballsy ending that won me over. The rest of the film did feel like a watered down pg-13 flick. Rickey maintains that a peripheral Christian Bale in T4 is better than no Christian Bale at all.
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though I'll probably be thinking that I wish he was in it more while I watch it (which I will, no matter the reviews).
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White on Black is bad...umkay.
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Dec 21, 2007 9:32:38 AM CST
Sabrina, don't just look at that female terminator's ass...
by rickey henderson
EAT IT!
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Tired as hell of trilogies. Tired, tired, TIRED. Everything wants to be a fucking Trilogy, including Gears of War, the game they ripped off this Marcus character from. Ugh.
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I'm happy Christian Bale will be playing John Connor, though I can't imagine who'll play Marcus. Hopefully someone with legitimate acting chops so we come to care what happens to him.
I wasn't expecting a trilogy of films, though. Maybe they'll be creative and well-written stories, but why not just one Terminator 4 movie? Make it a three-hour dramatic, ballbusting film to fire everyone up and conclude the series, know what I mean? Not three more movies where we're forced to wait six years and six more hours for John Connor to send Reese back through time. I'm a huge Terminator fan (though I didn't care for the third film), but a new trilogy seems like overkill. Go big, go bloody, go great story we care about... but give it to us in ONE well-made film, not three.
Just my opinion. -
to Riddick. Bad move. Don't remind us that film exists, and it's probably not a good idea to compare any part of your film to one generally despised.
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but chud also posted that the cloverfield monster was chthulu. you missed that one too.
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Why the FUCK would we want to see a Terminator movie starring a previously unknown character. We have been waiting to see a movie that focuses on the future and how John Conner builds the resistance and ultimately defeats the machines. Is it that hard to do? How come they never listen? Fuck.
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I agree, rbatty024. Any comparison to Riddick makes me squirm. I really hope this Marcus character isn't pulled from some fucking video game. Video games generate ZERO emotional resonance with anyone, even people who dig the game. Because, you know, if the character gets killed, you just bring him back to life and keep playing. ZERO emotional resonance.
I hope Marcus -- or any character in the films -- is as far away from Riddick's one-dimensional meathead as possible. Just hearing "Riddick" and "Terminator 4" mentioned together diminishes my excitement for McG's story. No more comparisons to Riddick please. Ever. -
For the plucky black bad-boy character who doesn't play by anyone's rules but secretly has a heart of gold? SPOILERS skynet putting human brains in the Terminators is ridiculous and derails the whole premise of the franchise. They don't need human brains because they've already got ro-bit brains, and the fact that Skynet figures their ro-bit brains are better than our human brains is pretty much the whole point of waging war against, and trying on eradicate, humanity.
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humanity, that is.
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Bring it.
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anyone else remember those rumours that mr vin diesel was going to be cast in T4....maybe he is, and myabe he wont be a terminator!....any thoughts?
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You guys really hated Pitch Black that much? That was a cool character.
(i'm not even going to mention "the chronicles" because i skipped seeing that one)
i can't see marcus being even close to that character though. With the buzz about marcus, i see him more like Captain Spears from band of brothers. Just a bad ass.(and hey he's real!) -
when it hasn't been finalized. No announcement from his camp. That EW article said "final negotiations", but until it's announced, I won't believe that Bale signed on for a whole trilogy of films by McG.
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Forget about "T3" and we can get back to hard-ass action.
That invisotext part about cyborgs does not fit the Terminator concept. One of the pussy boys sucking dick in the production company is copying from some other sci-fi. -
Kinda wierd, cuz I'm sure when The Matrix was being made they wanted to avoid comparisons to The Terminator.
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I'm unsure by CHUD's story...
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mark my words.
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Compared to the other Terminators #3 wasn't good but on its own it wasn't that bad, an enjoyable watch for me at least.
Bring on the future, I want to see the god damn war. -
Seems like they're borrowing from a lot of other movie ideas for this one. Matrix, Human brains in robots (Robocop), Bad ass soldier savior (Riddick), Guy wakes up several years later (futurama)...the list goes on. So Christian plays a short roll in this one? Perhaps he gets assassinated early on. I think it would be cool to see Arnie do a cameo. Be seen as an older human who was captured that the T-800 was modeled after. I'm thinking this supposed bad ass dude is some sort of cyborg that was taken "out of commission". I have my doubts about this.
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For credibility. I dont wanna see Batman missused as John Conner in THREE MCG 'films'
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Sounds lame. Kung Fu high wire matrix action??? A hint that Mitchell Report member and box office killer Vin is in this??? Of course all modern action films have to have a very believable tough as nails chick doing Tai Bo and taking the leadership role while looking like a pornstar. This guy wants to wash the taste out of T3 out of his mouth??? I think most of us liked T3, the ending was quite moving and Arnie Mitchell reported up one last time and looked bigger than he did since the 80's. This guy is excited about McG ??? Why doesn't this CHUD dude wash the taste of man gravey out of his mouth instead. I don't want to see another CW - Abercrombie and Fitch- MTV music video action film. Don't think many of us do either.
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The whole point is to prevent the eradication of human life. Skynet represents the ultimate robot evil. To put a brain in a robot is a dumb writing mistake.
I have gone from excited about this to very worried. The Matrix comparisons...wonderful. I can't wait to see Marcus picking up the little girl from Waterworld/Aliens and running through lots of broken pipes as floating robots or ten Arnolds chase them. Sigh.
Let me attempt to spoil the end of movie 3: After fighting a robot version of himself in movie 2, Marcus must kill John Connor in order to save mankind! I hope I made a writer mad with that prediction. -
Maybe a Robot version of Marcus kills Conner and it turns into Marcus running from robots and humans both, opening up more storywriting to make these extra movies? And in the end, redeems his name.
God that would suck.
But really, 3 movies? What are they all gonna cram into these flics? -
whats with all the negativity? it sounds really cool....give then a chance for christ sake
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I'm only joking.Or am I?
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I can't see him as Shia. He's still kinda goofbally right now. Shia is a GREAT actor, but I see him more as the 'Conner' or 'Reese' type guy and ..oh, I just had this pop in my head...In a week, you're all gonna see in the headlines: Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson signs onto Terminator 4! HA!
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Fucking CYBORGS? That's such lame bullshit that has nothing to do with The Terminator series. How hard is this to fuck up? Give us John Connor being a badass and blowing up scary robots. We'll see the same movie three times, just change which robots he's blowing up.
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since I've smelt beautiful." That line makes me laugh every time. God what an awful movie. What happened to Vin Diesel? That guy had zero charisma and a dumb name. The Rock has a dumb name but at least he's charismatic.
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The Good: Bale as Connor, the post-apocalyptic fucked up future we've wanted to see since '84.
The Bad: Comparing Marcus to Riddick. Not that Riddick is a bad character, just left a bad taste in my mouth picturing a character like that in a Terminator film. And the fact that Connor is not the main character. The reason everyone was psyched that Bale got cast was we were hoping to finally see the badass leader Connor showing those nasty cyborgs what for, not some lameass sounding new guy.
And Terminator 3 sucked, world blown up ending or no. It wasn't ballsy, I went into the movie EXPECTING it. I can only imagine how pissed I would have been if they fucked that up too. -
..they weren't comparing Marcus to Vin Diesels Pacifier character.
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CG technology is good enough that they can take a younger likeness of Arnies face (say T1) and plop it on thousands of Terminators, AND it looks realistic. That would be schweet. I
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rubber skin, prosthetic arnie, bam, an army of t101s
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I'm let down. All I got was a few Shia jokes and alot of "i hope it's not Vin Diesel", where's the fun in that? How about The Rock as Marcus like the good professor suggested. Joking or not I think he would be perfect. I wouldn't mind seeing Gerad Butler in that role either. I think it might end up being John Cena or Triple H.
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the fact that cameron isnt involved in this franchise anymore. He has moved on. To leave others to continue the story. good or ill. Jonathon Mosotoy boxed himself into a corner. then you had all that shenanigans regarding who owns the series and all that nonsense. The director might be an idiot and I hated Charlies angels as much as the next person. But a new take on this franchise good be a very good thing.
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This to me sounds awful, though I'd be happy to be proved wrong. When someone can't even create a decent title for a movie I always worry for their ability to create a whole film.
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let's just hope the action really kicks ass, and that Bale builds up some good Connor stuff For T5. Or TS2. Or whatever they call it.
Oh, one more thing: let's hope they won't shift gears and kill off Connor so this "Marcus" guy takes the reins in episode 2 or 3. That would be soooo lame but curiously I can smell the bad idea coming. Oh, and make the last of the trilogy an epic showing adult Reese going back to '84 and using the Connors' knowledge to destroy the T-800, hence creating a time paradox: one future when Connor loses Reese but wins the war, and an alternate '84 when Reese survives to save the day and bang Sarah ever after. That would legitimate both the Cameron canon and the "non-Cameron" future the new producers will create. -
mixed with Stan Winston animatronic Arnolds. Arnold could do VO work and its on.
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Dec 21, 2007 3:00:00 PM CST
here's an idea to get Bein back (with his current age and all)
by future help
in all 3 Terminators flics, the only human to ever travel thru time was Bein. Everyone/thing else was robotic or liquid-tech.
Soooooo, just have an explaination in T4 how time travel effects your body/aging.
(it's a Hollywood sci-fi, com'on! DO IT! I too want to see Bein and Bale side by side. Badass shit there. -
Have Bein play an older Conner it makes total sense as Conner would look like his father and as for human brains in robots thats not what Terminator is all about, they are trying to replace us and wipe us out not be us.Dumb, dumb, dumb.
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BALE IS MARCUS???
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Thats a whole lot of scope Team McG are laying out. Perhaps too much for a film about a killer robot from the future...
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I'm not sure. Isn't some McG chickenshit pussy directing this? Frack Hollywood!
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Got inside source with someone in the game industry with the rumor that Vin has been in the voiceover studio working on the unnamed character in T4.
This source's source works closely with Cos Lazuras, as V.P. of Development. This is the same source, also stating that Vin is also working on the finishing touch of "The Wheelman" game will be pushed back to be released in the 3rd quarter of 2008... -
...This doesn't sound all bad as a Sci Fi flick. Its probally best that they seem to be taking an original idea and piggy backing on the terminator name
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Why not, a bit of make up, good lighting and a healthy suspension of disbelief and we can see a pre terminator Reese. Not focusing the mythology on Connor is just stupid. We've all been waiting to see him in action as an adult then they just go and make up some other character? The doom of it allthough is the McG connection. It's gonna be all style and no substance. Should call it 'Terminator 4: eye candy'.
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Would I put my brain in a robot's body. With the strength of 5 gorillas! - R.I.P. Cpt. Murphy.
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they said riddick 'cause i bet you they're looking at vin diesel for the role...booyah
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matrix got alittle inspiration from terminator...just a TAD
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what noobs
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in his office, then the nukes go off. Arnold as himself, that would be awesome.
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I know what he means, that "interest burn-out" feeling, when I lose track of why it is I love movies so much and just feel disgust when I see my ever-growing pile of unwatched DVDs, movie magazines whose articles I get tired of reading after a couple of sentences and all the internet spoilers and jaded bitching. Sometimes geekism sucks.
There's one thing, though, that always gets me back on track, namely that 10-minute AFI montage of 100 years of American cinema. Every single time I watch that, I'm reminded of the pure power of cinema and I fall in love with movies all over again. -
"After the drastic effects of Terminator 3, the story continues as John Connor and soon to be wife Kate Brewster begin the creation of a resistance organization with Earth's remaining survivors against the army of cyborgs slowly being built up by Skynet. As they are building this resistance, one survivor happens to be a traitor in disguise, and has a secret that nobody would ever come to suspect." Soooooo, a traitor? Maybe Marcus does kill Conner after all.
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That's the big plot hole you've identified? The whole fucking trilogy is plot holes! How is it possible that Skynet's technology was created by a robot hand and a microchip from the future that was created when Skynet's technology went AWOL and took over/destroyed most of the earth? It's a circular mess.
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Fuck, as much as I like a good trilogy, I hate when they decide to make them "just cause" thinking that the idea of having a complete trilogy means their movies are badass or so they can rip us off with more double-dipped dvds in trilogy sleeves.
Fuck pre-planned trilogies. -
Will we get folks saying it was cool just cause it had "giant fucking robots"?
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Yup. That 30 yr. anniversary D&D book foreword by Vin Diesel, quoted his character's name? Bale. And 30 years later, Diesel gets to fight Bale.
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...is when BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT will be released in theaters.
....is also Vin Diesel's birthday.
...so it must be destiny that they work together. -
I think you should be damn happy we're not living in the 80's or 90's again where sequels sucked because they were never planned in advance.
Hollywood has finally figured out how to make a good sequel - you plan it while you make the first one.
It took them decades to get this far so be glad that you're at least not getting stuff like Lethal Weapon 3 or Die Hard 2 anymore. -
Overcook. Serve with hype sauce.
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Don't know if he can act, but he would be a great non pretty boy type. Kind of a grizzled battle hardened soldier.
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Why don't they just bring back Edward Furlong and have him reprise his role as John Connor?
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Connor not being the main character. At least in the first one of these new sequels. Rather than following Connor throughout the whole thing, I think it could be interesting to start out from a point of view that has nothing to do with John Connor, and then have Connor's presence become more dominating. Like, if you make him the main character, they'd be starting out from a point of view in which the audience is supposed to sympathize with him. I think it could potentially be cool to instead focus on another character who meets Connor, and then through THAT character's interactions with Connor show why he is such a badass and how he gets to be such a legendary figure. I think that's the more difficult direction to take, and it could very well be implemented poorly, but I think it's a perfectly valid idea.
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Dec 21, 2007 11:51:15 PM CST
Will Connor tell Reese one of his mission parameters is to "fuck
by tallboy66
"And make sure you don't pull out, soldier. The future depends on it."
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Dammit, fix the talkback header thingie boxes so they tell us when we hit the world limit.
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They SHOULDN'T put Arnold's face onto thousands of terminators. That'd be stupid. Terminators are infiltration units, and they'd be pretty shitty infiltration units if all of them looked alike. Presumably, there are Terminators that look like Vin Diesel, Terminators that look like Willem Dafoe, and Terminators that look like Steve Buscemi. There would have to be a limited number of flesh-covered terminator models, otherwise they completely fail at being infiltration units. If they all look like Arnold Swarzenegger, you just take a picture of one of them, and put it on posters telling people to kill that dude. More to the point, when Terminators are engagesd in all out war with humans, there is little need for an infiltration unit at all. Maybe a FEW infiltration units just to sneak past the enemy's defenses and decimate them in a sneak attack. But the vast majority would be easily identifiable as Terminators in such a scenario. If you're in a big major huge fucking battle, you don't need all of your soldiers to look like your enemy. Because your enemy isn't THAT fucking stupid. In a huge epic battle, they're gonna be bare endoskeletons carrying plasma rifles, just like we saw in the flashback scenes in Terminator 2.
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or is anyone else sort of disappointed that in the future world of The Terminator, they primarily use blaster beams? I mean, plasma rifles are okay, I guess, but they just look too Star Warsy. In violent science fiction movies, I've always preferred conventional projectile weapons. In my honest opinion, that shit just looks more fucking brutal. I mean, imagine how much worse Aliens or Starship Troopers would have been if they had to use laser blaster guns instead of high-powered projectile weapons.
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It doesn't fucking MATTER how time travel affects aging, because KYLE REESE IS FUCKING DEAD. The Terminator KILLED HIM. That means he is DEAD. NO MORE. Things such as caffeine consumption, arthritis, chain smoking, and necrophilia are all irrelevant SINCE YOU ARE FUCKING DEAD. I'm not saying that they shouldn't cast Michael Biehn in a role in the new movies. They should, and I think they plausibly could. But if they do, I sure as hell hope they find a better way of doing it than what you suggested. PS: Sorry if I came off as being too mean. That idea was a good effort, I just don't think it was a very good idea. That doesn't mean I don't like you, and I hope you don't take offense at my comments.
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See, this is the stuff that I find interesting. These sorts of paradoxes can be fun to think about and try to find a way around. This paradox is, in fact, a very common one that is necessarily implied by the very act of time travel. If you want a great example of how this paradox has been dealt with in movies, you should check out Back to the Future Part 2. See, in Back to the Future 2, Marty McFly and Doc Brown take the time machine to the future. Meanwhile, in the future, Old Biff Tannen steals the time machine, goes back in time, and gives Present Biff Tannen a future Sports Almanac, enabling Present Biff Tannen to bet on every sports event from that point on, turning him into a billionaire. Actually, that/s not quite the same situation as Terminator, since Present Biff Tannen becoming rich didn't affect the results of his Future Sports Almanac. But it conceivably could. Suppose that after Biff Tannen becomes sufficeiently rich, he decides to buy a sports team and hire the best players and coaches. His team then dominates the entire sport. The obvious questions are firstly, WILL Biff's team dominate the sport? This goes back to an episode of Twilight Zone that some of you may have seen. In this episode, a dude builds a time machine and decides to go back in time and make things right. His motivation is his memory of a fire at his old childhood school that killed a bunch of little girls by slowly cooking them to death. But first, the dude tries to make other things right, such as assassinating Hitler. But he tries to shoot Hitler, and his attempt fails when the maid discovers him. Later on, he tries to prevent the devastating fire that caused his passion in time travel, and in the process of trying to prevent the fire he actually CAUSES the fire. Now this poses the question of whether or not time is deterministic or not. Was it ALWAYS him that caused the fire? Or, if he had not chosen to go back in time, woulkd SOMEONE ELSE have caused the fire? Does this mean that he had absolutely no free will when he built the time machine, and that he HAD to go back in time because he had already been present in the past? If so, does this suggest that all actions are predetermined, thus negating any attempt to try (because whatever you do is solely dictated by history)? And if that's the case, where did the information originally come from? In other words, if Biff Tannen puts together a record breaking sports team, and then opens up the sports almanac that allowed him to put that team together, will he see his team in the sports almanac? I think that's the real test. Because if he opens up his sports almanac after creating a record breaking team that he was only able to build because he got the sports almanac from the future, and DOESN'T see his team in the sports almanac, that means that his future is NOT the same future from whence the sports almanac came. Hence Doc Brown's explanation in Back to the Future 2 of why in order to fix things they have to travel to the PAST, rather than to the future in order to stop Biff Tannen from getting the sports almanac. That interpretation of time travel suggests that there are mulktiple timelines, and that it IS possible to change the past, so long as you change the past in a different timeline from the one you are currently in. That's the hypothesis that I prefer, and the first movie seems to suppoort that (second movie too, since John Connor didn't disappearafter destroying The Terminator). Terminator 3, however, in roduces some WEIRD shit into the mix. Okay, Terminator 3 implies that Judgement Day is inevitable. Fine. However, there were at least two other strange and SHOCKING things that happened in Terminator 3. Firstly, Judgement Day was DELAYED. That seems very inconsistent with the idea that Judgement DEay is inevitable. If jJudgement Day is inevitable, it is inevitable because THE PAST CANNOT BE CHANGED. The only qualifying condition here being that we can change the past so long as it is the past that occurs in a timeline separate to ours. Second weird thing is when that T-X (does the X stand for Xtreme, or Experimental?) pulls up to burger king and actually SUCCEEDS in blasting the shit out of one of Future John Connor's future generals. This is weird because it implies that the past, in the world of the Terminator, CAN be changed. And if the past can be changed AT ALL, what is there to prevent the past from being changed COMPLETELY? This notion is in direct opposition to the idea presented IN THAT VERY SAME MOVIE that Judgement Day is inevitable? Now we're talking about CERTAIN EVENTS being able to be changed or delayed. Obvious question is, what makes some events more immutable than others? How can Judgement Day be inevitavle if the event is able to be DELAYED? If the event can be delayed, that implies that the past can be changed. And if that's the case, what is stoppin g Judgement Day from being completely STOPPED? Anyway, that was the thing that grated on my mind the MOST after seeing T3, and I still haven't managed to think of a good answer for it.
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First, the amount of money that is invested into this scale of project means that there is more to the story for the financiers to invest in 3 movies. What is it?
Second, is the possibility that the storyline involves Skynet building a more natural infiltrator that wouldn't be as noticable to the humans, by abducting and implanting people's brains into a replica exoskeleton. Canon intact. It also gives up some interesting scenarios, no?
Lastly, Maybe McGinty has grown up from his music video roots and the studios are giving him the chance of a lifetime. Maybe.
Does anyone else feel like the flashback scenes in T2 were almost Raimi-like in style? Blasphemy? Flame on! -
Top post! I hadn't even thought of the contradictions you mentioned in T3 and I usually consider myself alert when it comes to stuff like that. When people yell about continuity being messed up in T3 they never follow up and explain exactly how in any satisfactory way. I always assumed it was like the people yelling the same thing about AvP, which did have huge problems, but I never felt continuity was one of them.
I also enjoy the brain-busting aspects of fictional time travel and I can think of at least two more examples like the ones you mentioned.
One of them is, of course, Escape from the Planet of the Apes where two apes go back in time and avoid the apocalypse of their future. They end up becoming the progenitors of the entire sentient Ape race of tomorrow.
The second example is a short story by Harry Harrison where scientists send an unmanned time machine back to take pictures in order to learn why Stonehenge was built. What they discover is that it was built as a religious monument for the worship of the "magical" or "holy" machine from the future that suddenly appeared in their midst. -
Dude you blew my mind! That whole destiny being delayed by something does really annoy the crap out of me.
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I'll try to figure out some kind of "logical" shit out of the questions you raised; and I'll try my best to be understandable (English not being my native language and I consider canon only the movies, not the tie-in comics, novels or 3D shows - feel free to point out discrepancies):
1/ The BTTF2 comparison: Back To The Future is composed of a time-machine element (implying a back and forth motion through time), linking together separate realities. Terminator (by the use of a time-travelling *field* - hence no going back) is a more linear reality displayed chronologically through 3 films. So, unless they introduce again Kyle Reese and prove this wrong, we're left to think that his informations about the future were either incorrect to begin with, or the future can be changed.
From now on: point #1: His informations (those building up EVERYTHING in T1 and T2 related to the future) were incorrect: that's a fucking big stretch, but he comes from a place with no organized civilization, just a bunch of soldiers trying to survive, some of them (like Reese himself) being born AFTER the nukes fell. The informations about the war come from Connor himself, Reese (and later the good T-800s) being only the messengers, and Kyle being also the detonator as he's the father of John. Now follow this one second: Judgement Day happening in either '97 or 2004 makes no difference regarding Reese (he's still born AFTER the war) and since he's the main reference for all things futuristic, it doesn't matter anyways. The only problem is the "why": why Connor, who survived Judgement Day in 2004, would lie to Reese? I do not fucking know.
This one is a real stretch, so let's see point #2: you used a "what if" example to twist the knife on the space-time continuum fabric in BTTF2. But there is no evidence that Biff would actually BUY a sports team. Now, regarding T3: there is no evidence either that DELAYING Judgement Day and STOPPING IT would be the same. Events and informations (some of them being likely false or at least not relevant anymore as the story unfolds) lead to a destruction of Dyson's work in T2, but no proof that his program has been stopped. Why Cyberdine Systems would stop an expensive program like this? The program being delayed is much more logical. And the two aren't mutually exclusive. The alteration of the past (and the subsequent informations brought from the future) is very different from the classic "Kyle is John's father" paradox, as in the former the informations (most likely apocryphal) are handled by a bunch of different characters (Sarah, young John, Dyson) leading to different interpretations, while the Kyle paradox is much more of an illogical matter.
Point #3: Since there is no back and forth motion through time, we assume that the Future is unique, and only the past can be altered. The essence of this leads to a re-interpretation of the "No Fate but what we make" motto: since the different behaviours from different protagonists (Dyson, Sarah, General Brewster) with different agendas all led to the inevitable, the No Fate phrase can be seen more in an individualistic fashion rather than a matter concerning the Fate of the whole world. Be it the T-800s, the T-X or the T-1000, they only *altered* the future of Cyberdine by helping them or crippling them. But again the only character whose actions really changed things (and people) is Reese. And T3 clearly showed that the "No Fate" thing is more of an inspirational motto rather than a law written in the stone.
So, I don't think the movies created that much of a paradox. They created their own logic of time travel, just like BTTF did.
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That's all I'm gonna say.
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That might actually be cool. I've always wondered what the rubber skinned ones would look like. It would be good to see them use that and not make them look cg perfect. I'm not buying the whole cyborg thing though, it's just not efficient compared to a pure machine. It would also be nice to see the whole Terminator story told instead of a Terminator remake with The Rock or something.
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http://movies.yahoo.com/premieres/5590019/standardformat/
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Like Janeway said "I hate temporal mechanics." Always loved time travel stories but they create far to many holes most times. many scientists believe in theory of time being a straight line past, present, and future. Or a placid lake that when a stone is thrown into it we start the ripple effect we've all heard of, changing history. The theories get even stranger with one being time should be seen as more of a sphere that the present is in the middle of. That we can access past and future from this point. The weirdest being the future influences the past. The Terminator is based on this theory. You could also see it in Journeyman and the course correction ep. of Lost last season.
Personally I can't wait for the new stories to hit the big screen and we all know it's going to be Diesel. Don't kid youselves. Anyway the best story about time travel "The Time Toaster" on the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror. -
I dunno about this Marcus guy or his backstory, but the rest of it sounds pretty neat. As if were not all going to be there opening weekend.
Still, don't know if we need a new trilogy. I think I'm trilogied out. -
is pointless. See Terminator 3.
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We are still getting stuff like Die Hard 4 though. Which sucked ass.
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Google tracks everything you do. You are being watched. Google knows you better than your mama. http://www.google-watch.org/
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Dec 22, 2007 10:59:49 AM CST
IF ANCHORITE WENT BACK IN TIME AND FUCKED HIS MOTHER
by bringingsexyback
then he's his own father. That explains his inbred mentality.
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I tend to like spoilers. T-4 sounds cool enough and I hope they can pull it off.
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yeah. but if they plan terminators 5 and 6 now, they will be a lot better than if they don't.
And yeah, Die Hard 4 sucked. Deserved to be mentioned one more time. -
I'm also hoping to win the Powerball seven times in a row.
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deserved to be mentioned indeed.
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... the few apes escaping the apocalypse of the second film created the ape society that ultimately led to the detonation of the Omega bomb that destroyed all life of earth; which created the shockwave that sent them back in the first place. Also very circular but the end result is to ultimately lead to the death of everything in the future.
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who cashed in chips a long time ago has written a devasting book about web 2.0. This guy called Andrew Keenan may to some sound like grumpy old man but his points are very vaild. When he was working in Silicon valley and making fortune in the dot com boom the Internet was in its infancy and media had nothing to worry about because the old editorial codes were still there, you had editors and fact checkers and all stories were checked before they were published. Nobody worried initially about web 2.0. because the controls were still there but as time went on the old way of doing things faded away. The first phase of the web 1.0 faded out. Web 2.0 came in. This was the birth of search engine. In andrew keenans book he warns about the future and right in the middle of all this GOOGLE. Keenan warns that if unchecked Google will become an unofficial arm of world govt. Also there editorial controls are gone and you can say pretty much what you want anonymously. But I believe his warning about google is correct. We dont know what sort of govts we will have in the future. There is no problem in info sharing with a begign govt but if a govt is not begign and google give over personal info. The society will be fucked. remember the story of the chinese journalist. you dont. briefly, He was at a conference and this guy was a blogger and took the notes of another guy and blogged some anti-communist stuff on his blog site and within 24 the chinese authorities found out where he lived. He was charged and given 14 years hard labour. When he asked how the authorities got his name and address, they told him that Yahoo had supplied them with the information. Yahoo issued a bland statement about human rights. There was huge international uproar about the case and it ended up in Washington where Yahoo hauled up on captial hill and asked to explan how they could be involved in this massive breach of human rights. This guy was set free and yahoo got the book thrown at them in stinging and damning inditement.
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Back To The Future 2 & 3 didnt have to be made...
Doc: We have to go to the future and save your son!
Marty: Why don't you just tell me what fucking day it happens and I'll ground him.
Bad sequels prevented. -
Wikipedia and the new media. In which you can say anything but that there are editorial committees with web 2.0 to check whether some is true or not. I know you can amend stuff on Wikipedia. keenan doesnt think much of you tube either.
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such a horribly designed site, it's like someone vomiting into your eyes...
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is appreciated.
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LOL. As long as its piping hot, you guys will slirp up any bowl, the ENTIRE bowl, before realizing that it might be piping-hot SH*T.
A LOT of this info. smacks of a giant, purposeful chain-yank and bou are people falling for it. This movie will probably be TF opening Blackout sequence meets Asimov-induced living-robot angst.
"LOOK,they are SENTIENT LIKE US! WE COULD END THIS WAR..." OMG please just let me take the blue pill so I can wake up and forget about the impending nerdslaught of angry speculation. -
Pitch Black vs. Terminator vs. Predator vs. Army of Darkness vs. Godzilla
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There was a comic book Terminator:The Burning Earth (with art by Alex Ross) which was lacking in story, but the visuals were amazing. It should look like that book, gritty and dirty and rough, not glossy, but it's probably going too. If they filmed it like a straight up war movie, they'd have something pretty cool, but I have a feeling they aren't going too. I hope they look at the first two Terminator movies, look at how desolate and run-down everything is and keep things like that. I hope they don't blow this...
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I think it's more likely that Marcus is a cyborg that humans were experimenting with as the ultimate soldier than if SKYNET made them. It would make sense that he was "out of commission" for 15 years because he was in storage or turned off. Anyone who wakes up from a coma or something else similar after 15 years would be FUBARed physically and never completely recover.
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Have they learned nothing from Star Wars?
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and wes craven is a case in point. How many Friday movies were there or how jason movies were there or halloween movies.
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MARCUS could also be the cyborg programmed to infiltrate the Resistance by befriending John Connor. The IMDB plot describes the traitor in disguise which to me, describes Marcus. I think SKYNET programmed him to "wake up" or rather "boot up". But since it's been 15 years, and smacked in the middle of all the machine vs. man mayhem, the movie will open up ACT I Marcus's mission.
Like in AI, I think Marcuse is SKYNET's special prototype that can program himself to be a sentient being, thus using his "AI" to befriend John Connor when actually he's a "traitor disguise" to stop the Resistance. Marcus is so far advance in his AI, his disguise, that's why SKYNET probably chose Marcus. Like the game chess, SKYNET's strategy was to "release" Marcus at this time to checkmate the king, John Connor. That would be one awesome plot for T4.
Then in T5, we have John Connor finding out the truth about Marcus thus the fight of surviving the game of outwitting, outplaying, and outlasting the SKYNET.
In T6, obviously, SKYNET is done and the Resistance wins! -
...regrettably lose their passion for film. Excellent recommendation on how to deal with it. I've never had that problem, but if I ever do, I have the prescription thanks to Moriarty and Devin.
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They already made a whole film about Riddick that no-one watched. The focus should be John Conner, it's his story! If they're going to scrap that, just make Terminator Vs RoboCop instead. Even Terminator Vs Short Circuit would be cooler!
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Did any of you fan boys know that an African American woman created not just the Matrix stories but also the Terminator stories as well? Years ago she sent her scripts to some movie house in Hollywood but never got a response then years later saw her ideas on the big screen. After battling it out with her lawyers and Hollywood she was offered a settlement and became an instant billionaire with one condition. She never mention it but it eventually came to light. (they feared America would spaz if they learned two of their beloved franchises were the brain children of a Black woman) Google it if you don't believe me.
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Dec 24, 2007 6:33:09 AM CST
Actually Will Smith was supposed to play NEO but backed out when
by eightiesbaby
Monday, October 4th 2004 ended a six-year dispute involving Sophia Stewart,
the
Wachowski Brothers, Joel Silver and Warner Brothers. Stewart's
allegations,
involving copyright infringement and racketeering, were received and
acknowledged by the Central District of California, Judge Margaret Morrow
residing.
Stewart, a New Yorker who has resided in Salt Lake City for the past five
years, will recover damages from the films, The Matrix I, II and III, as
well as The Terminator and its sequels. She will soon receive one of the
biggest payoffs in the history of Hollywood, as the gross receipts of both
films and their sequels total over 2.5 billion dollars.
Stewart filed her case in 1999, after viewing the Matrix, which she felt
had been based on her manuscript, "The Third Eye," copyrighted in 1981. In
the mid-eighties Stewart had submitted her manuscript to an ad placed by
the Wachowski Brothers, requesting new sci-fi works.
According to court documentation, an FBI investigation discovered that more
than thirty minutes had been edited from the original film, in an attempt
to avoid penalties for copyright infringement. The investigation also
stated that "credible witnesses employed at Warner Brothers came forward,
claiming that the executives and lawyers had full knowledge that the work
in question did not belong to the Wachowski Brothers." These witnesses
claimed to have seen Stewart's original work and that it had been "often
used during preparation of the motion pictures." The defendants tried, on
several occasions, to have Stewart's case dismissed, without success.
Stewart has confronted skepticism on all sides, much of which comes from
Matrix
fans, who are strangely loyal to the Wachowski Brothers. One on-line
forum,
entitled Matrix Explained has an entire section devoted to Stewart. Some
who have researched her history and writings are open to her story. Others
are suspicious and mocking. "It doesn't bother me," said Stewart in a phone
interview last week, "I always knew what was true."
Some fans, are unaware of the case or they question its legitimacy, due to
the fact that it has received little to no media coverage. Though the case
was not made public until October of 2003, Stewart has her own explanation,
as quoted at
aghettotymz.com:
"The reason you have not seen any of this in the media is because Warner
Brothers parent company is AOL-Time Warner... this GIANT owns 95 percent of
the media... let me give you a clue as to what they own in the media
business... New York Times papers/magazines, LA Times papers/magazines,
People Magazine, CNN news, Extra, Celebrity Justice, Entertainment Tonight,
HBO, New Line Cinema, Dreamworks, Newsweek, Village Roadshow... many, many
more!... They are not going to report on themselves. They have been
surpressing my case for years..." -
fuck this movie...fuck this movie big time. between the tv show and no arnold, this shit's gonna turn into robocop vs. terminator a la alien vs. predetor real quick. stop milking good ip's. and for fuck sake's leave bale out of these...he can do much better work with the batman series and hopefully metal gear series.
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...based on an original script?The Matrix, which benefited from offering something fresh, would have never been made in this climate of prequels, sequels/sequel trilogies and remakes/reboots. Of course there are exceptions like I AM LEGEND, but such examples are clearly few and far between.
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the other night and I think what the makers of terminator 4 are doing is filming the back story. While making the franchise fresh, lets remember the original movie is over twenty years old and hasnt aged well at all.
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