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Stewart/Colbert ’08!! Specifically?? Jan. 7!!
I am – Hercules!!
New episodes of “The Daily Show With Jon Stewart” and “The Colbert Report” will return to Comedy Central Jan. 7 without writers.
How’s that going to work??
From Friday morning’s Variety:
According to insiders, trademark features like Stewart's "Headlines" and Colbert's "The Word" will obviously have to take a break since they're heavily scripted.
Instead, it appears the shows will try to work around the missing writers (and the guild rules that bar anything that's traditionally the domain of scribes) by relying heavily on pretaped segments from the field.
In many of those cases, the segments are produced and edited by non-WGA members. That would still seemingly prevent correspondents who are WGA members from participating, but it's believed that some of the show's contributors are with the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, rather than the WGA. (In addition, "The Daily Show" has occasionally run pieces by individuals who are not regular contributors.)
They will follow “Jimmy Kimmel Live,” “Late Night With Conan O’Brien” and “The Tonight Show With Jay Leno,” all of which return Jan. 2 sans writers.
Worldwide Pants is also expected to bring back “The Late Show With David Letterman” and “The Late Late Show With Craig Ferguson” Jan. 2. Pants reps meet with WGA today on the matter of bringing the shows' writing staffs back for the return.
Read all of Variety’s story on the Comedy Central matter here.
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Born Standing Up
by Steve Martin
Instead, it appears the shows will try to work around the missing writers (and the guild rules that bar anything that's traditionally the domain of scribes) by relying heavily on pretaped segments from the field.
In many of those cases, the segments are produced and edited by non-WGA members. That would still seemingly prevent correspondents who are WGA members from participating, but it's believed that some of the show's contributors are with the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, rather than the WGA. (In addition, "The Daily Show" has occasionally run pieces by individuals who are not regular contributors.)
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The quality will be questionable. My fingers will be crossed.
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Dying to see some new stewart and colbert
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These are two of the most successful shows in Comedy Central history. If Stewart and/or Colbert wanted to wait it out another six months, what could CC have done? Fired them? Please. Another network would snap them up (on the host's terms) and CC would rocket toward the bottom of the cable barrel almost immediately. So I don't get it. Leno, not surprising. Conan, somewhat surprising. Stewart/Colbert, kinda shocking. I pegged them for pro-WGA all the way.
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whoa. never got it before
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guess it was more like 4th..
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...that going back to work without writers does not mean they're against the WGA. What it does mean, is that there's a hell of a lot more staff than writers out there, and whether the strike ends tomorrow, or three years from now, they aren't getting shit out of the deal. Why should they have to suffer just because the producers and writers (yes, according to my connections, they're being just as pig-headed as the producers) can't come to terms?
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Seriously try talking out of something other than your ass people. All of the late night folk are coming back so as to keep all of their staff employed. As far as Leno and Conan go it can't get any less funny anyway.
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Fuck 'em all, I've got no contract...
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Dec 21, 2007 3:36:51 AM CST
ZombieHunter is happy to suck corporate cock
by guy who got a headache and accidentally
I for one cry myself to sleep every night at the thought of these massive corporations ending up penniless on the streets all because of those evil writers who wanted to be paid for their work. Really though Zombie, go fuck yourself, so your pissed off because you've resigned yourself to some shitty factory job, living in some trailer park with some toothless waffle waitress bitch, and you're jealous that these guys who write shitty television make so much money you'd have to call in a number expert to count it all because you can't count that high, is that the problem here? Well that's your own fault pal, maybe if you didn't spend all your time on a messageboard bitching at people for sticking it to the man instead of sticking up for them, like you...
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The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, Leno, O'Brien or Kimmel as long as the strike continues.
And even if I was some anti-Guild New Media Douchebag hater, I still wouldn't watch Stewart or Colbert (of those listed above, the two I was watching before the strike), as most of the funny on those shows is in the scripted segments - Stewart's headlines, Colbert's "The Word".
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The end run some writers are ready to take around the AMPTP:
http://tinyurl.com/2b6lpc
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I completely and unashamedly support the writers' strike. But current events have been less amusing without you and your show. Incidentally, your show has been the only show on any network that I sincerely missed. By the way, please, stop letting Hollywood steal your amazing reporters away. Many people and I miss the presence on your show of Steven Colbert, Ed Helms, Mo Rocca, Rob Corddry, and, of course, Steve Carell. There was much funniness.
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Don't believe the above talkbackers, Jon. You and your reporters were the ones who made the show entertaining, not the pre-written jokes.
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how can they stay away when all the others are coming back?
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"oh, to hell with it."
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I think there's been an upswing with the threat level of bears.
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I don't quite understand that. While the lack of Stewbert is getting more painful every day I'd rather wait three or four more months in solidarity.
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Isnt the whole point of the strike to hurt the studios? If these and other shows come back and are a success without writers - won't more studios turn round and say "why did we even need those fucking writers in the first place? screw them and their negotiations"
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TO the writers that this strike was the worst possible idea they could have thought up. Didnt they learn anything from the recent NYC subway strikes that also didnt work. I just dont think strikes are an effective means of getting things done anymore and shame on the writers for putting so many people out of work so they can get some extra pocket change. I wonder if the writers will attend the tapings to heckle colbert and stewart.
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The mere idea that you pretty much have to join a union in order to be able to write for film and television is just insane. Writers of books and magazine articles don't have a union and seem to be doing just fine.
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If the writers want to strike, that's their right and their choice, but when I hear that they're disappointed in, and publicly scolding non-writers for working without them, THAT makes my blood boil. How can they expect people to support them if they get NOTHING out of any deal that's struck? The only thing the writers are doing is getting the people behind the scenes laid off if the stars decide to support the writers and not do the shows. It's ridiculous.
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Thank Christ for that.
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Supporting Big Media over labor? Don't you understand that this is just one example of large corporations rolling back employee pay and benefits? It's a snowball effect people, that only gets worse. The strength of labor is fading in every industry. And that's a real problem. The WGA isn't so much asking for more money - but rather the same amount. Writers get residuals on TV, but more and more reruns are being viewed on the internet. In a few years television won't exist in the same way anymore as TV and computers are combined - therefore TV residuals go out the window. Why don't you read a bit about the subject before you all come to conclusions. www.unitedhollywood.com
And Spidercoz - you talk about supporting the UAW - but think the WGA is ridiculous?? I agree in supporting the UAW, but those workers are just that - workers - writers are the originators of content, they come up with the ideas that go on to make millions and occasionally billions. Why shouldn't they share in the revenue? If the person who designed the car was only given a small fee, wouldn't they have a right to be pissed?? And besides, for every show that makes the air, there are hundreds that do not. Writers can't spend time to come up with all these ideas to find the few golden nuggets if they don't get residuals. Residuals pay for a working writer to write.
As a writer I can tell you that a lot (not all, but a lot) of the crap on TV is specifically made crap by the studios and development process. Only a few big conglomerates own everything, so they try to tailor everything to specific molds. Creative Independence seems to be lost much of the time. Why do you think news has been dangerously blurred with entertainment lately?
It is dangerous to let the agendas of a few companys control everything we see and hear. -
So the writers are being selfish? Are you saying the corporations are not being selfish? Because the corporations refuse to negotiate fairly, it's the writers fault that so many people are losing their jobs?
So when the United Auto Workers go on strike, and it negatively affects people working in other parts of the auto industry, their A*@holes? Is that what you're trying to say? -
Saying "The writers are being selfish" is going too far. You know who is going too far? The companies that want to ripoff writers with the internet. With DVD sales. With 'unscripted' (yeah right) television. With animated television. $100 million a year in a $175 billion industry. Trust me, the writers are the last ones being selfish here.
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So no one should ever stand up for what they believe in? Is that what you're trying to say? Maybe the revolutionary war patriots were jerks for standing together against a power that obviously didn't care about them? Is that your point? You're all a bunch of schmucks.
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... Who are actually trying to equate intellectual property with assembly line work. These talkbackers never had respect for writers, from television or what have you, in the first place.
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(just an example) Stephen King writes his book "The Stand". Let's say he isn't Stephen Fucking King and doesn't get a $2 million advance, but is a writer getting paid with royalties. So, let's imagine that over time, the publisher starts publishing "The Stand" online and charging customers 20 bucks a pop, instead of selling it in the book store. Now, imagine if our hypothetical Stephen King only gets paid royalties from books sold int he book store and JACK SHIT (i.e. $0.0) for all those increasing sales online. Now imagine a world where online sales become the norm, instead of an aberration. That's what the Writers are striking over. Our hypothetical publisher gets to rake in millions of royalty free green backs, not having to pay our hypothetical Stephen King a DIME for his intellectual property.
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Just testing to see if any of this shit works in the Talkback:
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Only tags that work are: for 1 line break, and for a paragraph break.
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Networks will see just how inferior unscripted shows are vs. scripted shows. NBC especially will see how far Leno falls without writers. (Not that I think he was anything to begin with but you know what I mean.)Also, the WGA can't be blamed for so many crewmembers being out of jobs. Not that they should have blamed to begin with but that stigma's not as strong anymore.What needed to happen in the first place was the WGA, SAG and DGA coordinate their strikes for maximum effect. If they simultaneously shut down, producers would have had to listen. No one's going to give in to writers when the big contracts are still pending. As it is I think networks will finally see how valuable writers are to their prized talk show personalities.
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You completely missed my point apparently which would kinda make you the dumb one, but I digress. I never said I wanted my TV back. I dont even watch Tv except for Heroes and the Fuse channel every now and then. My primary complaints against the writers are putting people out of work who will be receiving nothing from the strike and also acting like they are victims and have the right to be pissed at people for not supporting them and finding ways to work around them. Good day to you sir.
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If people don't buy the DVD or order the movie online (because of shitty quality of the movie), then the writer WILL NOT GET PAID A ROYALTY FEE. But as it stands now, the way the studios want it, is if the studios can sell a million copies of THE GODFATHER PART 2 online, the writer gets jack shit. What the studios are doing hurts both the good and bad writers. The royalty system rewards good writing (or at least writing that people will buy). The studios have been trying to circumvent the system for YEARS. It's time they signed back on and gave the writers their due. Your analogy was bollocks to begin with. If the car falls apart after 20 miles, people won't buy them anymore and the autoworker won't get paid his royalty.
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Writers write shit because producers ask them to write shit.There are a lot of really intelligent, creative people out there in all fields aching to make good movies and good television. Unfortunately, producers are the ones that ask for shit like Daddy Day Camp and Cavemen.By not having residuals you're creating a situation where writers have to do what producers tell them. By having residuals you're giving writers an incentive to create work that lasts a long time.
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is faster than me.
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With new Lost episodes coming, and the football post season, I suspect there is not going any huge outcry for missing scripted shows for some time, if ever. WGA: better get back to the table and start hammering out some sort of agreement, even a temporary one.
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... funny guys, but I wonder if they will be as popular when Bush is no longer president. They will no longer have a right-wing bully pulpit to chastise.
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There will still be plenty of right-wing congressmen and douchebags like Anne Cooter, Dinesh D'Louza, Bill O'Liely, and Rush Limbaugh to make fun of. Not to mention half of the Democratic congress is pussified (this coming from a Democrat). Plenty of fodder to go around.
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he's kept it about politicians and there's plenty of stupidity on both sides. He's made fun of Hillary more than anyone else in the campaign since it started and rightfully so.
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They only want a fair share of the digital revenue... or do you really enjoy watching big money squash the little guy?
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True enough. The Democratic congress has lower approval ratings than Bush does. By the way, you butchered everyone else's names, so why did you neglect Rush Limpdick? :P
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Sorry, but i can't support strike action by any union, especially one that holds a monopoly over writers in the TV/film industry. To basically prevent a writer from having a job unless they sign up for the union should be fucking illegal. Every service in Britain strikes at some point and all it does is fuck off the general public.I have sympaphy for writers who didn't forsee the importance of the new media but striking isn't the way to solve things.
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If the WGA didn't monopolize the writing industry, I'd be a bit more sympathetic of their dilemma. Right now it seems to me two giant corporations at odds with each other. One is just pretending to represent the "little guy," when really, they make it incredibly hard for the "little guy" to make it in the industry unless he joins them. That's fucked.
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People expected them to come in a clean house, but Bush has the final say, so they're pretty powerless still. Alot of the public doesn't get that, hence the low approval rating. I find it mind boggling, however, that people don't like the congress because they're not doing enough to fix the fuck up that is this administration, and yet the right tries to spin it as though it's a victory for them. Outrageous.
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Just reiterating what I said earlier. And also, I have to admit that there are other shows that I miss. I really enjoyed watching Scrubs, Family Guy, CSI, and the first 5 minutes of SNL. But, again, I understand why they're striking. I'm a little surprised that not only the actors and actresses themselves, but some of the producers and writers seem to frequent this site.
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everything i see and hear of this ridiculous american system boggles my mind. the only humour in it all comes from writers and guild supporters posing themselves as 'the little guy' fighting the good fight. with their six figure salaries. right. being british ive got a lot of experience and understanding of genuine strike mentality. it bears no relation to this thing you yanks have going on.
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Or even 'Colbert/Colbert' -- now THAT'S a strong ticket! www.cafepress.com/colbert08hq
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Such a tool. Most writers do not make "six figure salaries."
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I'm feeling fairly ambivalent on the Comedy Central issue. While I completely support the WGA and think that anyone who calls the writers 'selfish' is an idiot, I do miss my Colbert/Stewart and to deny them a chance to comment on the primaries and call the politicians on their bullshit at a crucial time would be doing America a deep disservice. I wonder if the push to get back on the air would be as desperate if it wasn't primary season. But Stewart and Colbert are WGA members themselves, so I'm not sure how it's all going to work out.
NoodlesHahn, Stewart has never really gone after pundits? I don't know what show you watch, but Stewart goes after pundits with way more venom than even the politicians. Do you remember the whole 'Hannity and Colmes' incident? Or his constant barrage at Robert Novak ('Douchebag of Liberty'). And people forget that Stewart took over the Daily Show and made it popular when Clinton was still in office. No matter who's in the White House, there will be plenty to make fun of. -
You say you Brits know about striking, but in all your negotiations, don't any of you think to ask for a dental plan?
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Stewart certainly goes after the craft of punditry. The pundit transcripts as read by children are always delightful. But when he singles people out he goes after politicians a lot more than pundits.The Robert Novak thing is personal ever since Stewart went on Crossfire and made sense that one time. The Douchebag of Liberty thing is mostly about Novak being an extension of the administration and not just having right wing tendencies.I guess my whole point was that if a Dem takes the office next year, Stewart won't fall back on going after conservo-pundits, he'll still go after the President.
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... although I'm not condoning his his sanctimonious standpoint, he does have a point. Yes, eXcommunicated, it is true that not all writers are pulling six figures, but I would wager that the majority of the writers on strike were living pretty comofortably off their income. From what I understand, many of them were at $200k per year or more, depending on their contracts. That is certainly nothing to cough at, and their plight pales in comparison to that of lower-income blue-collar workers who have to go on strike for sake of livelihood, and not for a few extra thousand dollars a year to "get back at the man."
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If people are making money hand over fist because of your labor, don't you think you deserve a worthy slice of that pie?
It doesn't matter how much money individual writers get for their work, only that they reap a decent portion of the profit. -
the strike is going too far if they're upset at people like Conan for going back to work. People are getting laid off who will receive absolutely nothing from this strike. I understand that many writers live off residuals while in between projects, but the lighting guy on the Tonight Show gets shit while the writers "stick it to the man". I in no way support the studios, but the WGA trying to drum up support as if they're some mom and pop organization is ridiculous. More than that they're demands are getting out of control too (i.e. wanting to force reality TV writers to join the guild so they in essence control reality TV as well???). The studios should work something out over the online issues and the DVD sales and be done with the whole thing. At this point it's all messed up but the whole thing has gone too far.
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... to see how Stewart/Colbert/Conan/etc. etc. etc. good or bad their shows are without the high paid writers behind them.
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What sends a better message to the public? Repeats of quality programming or non-writer oriented Daily Show and Colbert Report that suck balls and show the indifferent American public how bad it truly can be without writers? Right now, the typical viewer outside CA is unaware of the impact of the strike because they are used to shows being repeats during the holidays. It won't be until Feb when scripted programming runs dry and sub-par late night programming enters the schedule that they will realize "Holy shit! What happened to ma shows?" The networks have rolled seamlessly through this strike, airing completed shows, and promising new programming like American Gladiators and Celeb Apprentice. People have been none the wiser. But the day of reckoning is on the horizon. Colbert and Stewart won't say it, but their coming back and doing shit shows does more for the movement than showing quality repeats does.
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I think the "greed" Can be applied to both parties if you wanna throw that term around. The corporations want to protect their bottom line and the writers want to get paid more for their work. Both sides can be equally defined as greedy if you really wanted to. My disatisfatcion with the writers stems from the fact that they are the ones "ACTIVELY" putting people out of work and shutting down productions. I could deal with it if the writers werent busy pretending to be victims of the man and act as if they are fighting this battle for everyone al straw was to hear that jkass writers were heckling Carson Daly of all people for working and keeping other people working. Thats when the writers really showed their asses. And then you have people like Mori who downplay the below the line people's creative roles in film and television and play the "the strike is hurting the writers too" card. Well duh, they shouldnt have went on strike and everyone would still be working and there would still be a chance of negotiating those precious residuals. Now the writers just look like selfish jerks who are screwing EVERYONE else over so they can get a larger piece of the pie.
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Thats what corporations are supposed to do! They are a business, they are alays looking out for their bottom line. Is it always right, no. Can it be unethical at times, yes...but by definition a business, especially a corporation is supposed to look out for their very own bottom line, its expected. If you wanna play that game, a writer is supposed to write for art. Art for Arts sake ring a bell? So the fact that they are screwing over everyone kinda makes the artistic ones seem a tad more greedy in comparison. But thats besides the point. Im not here to argue with you over who is being greedier in this conflict. I'm saying that I feel that the writers are being a little ridiculous thinking that the public, that they are screwing over in so many ways, should be supportive of them. And then they go and heckle those who arent on their side. The more I think about it the more the WGA (I'll refrain from using writers since I don't believe every single writer out there wants this strike) is seeming like the villain in this debacle of a strike.
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I think you need to supplement that 'understanding' with a little research, that70svenom. We've had this discussion so many times on here, my fingers hurt, but this 6 figure salary comment is just wrong. Only a small percentage of WGA members make that much and if they do, that's certainly not consistent across several years, since they're not always working (thus the need for residuals). The WGA publishes the salary breakdowns for their members, so it's easy enough to look up. But - and I can't believe I still have to say this - how much they make is irrelevant, when the question is being screwed out of residuals by the studios.
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Well I wouldnt really consider myself conservative. Im just someone who doesnt like the idea of a small group of people negatively impacting countless people(many not even in the industry) and acting as though they are victims and get all vindictive when people find ways around them. If the writers would just shut up, strike, and stop heckling people, I wouldnt have such a big problem with them. But the playing the victim and pretending to be doing it for the little guy is disengenuous at best and pretty as-holish at worst.
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Poor things haven't got any news since they've been off the air! Are we still in Iraq? Did we elect a new President? Is it still 2007? Who knows! Jon Stewart hasn't been "reporting" for two months!
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OK, this is a bit late in the talkback here, but, you guys pissed me off, especially Fataleye. FUCK THE WRITERS. You say that a worker shouldn't be on the same plateau because they didn't CREATE an original property?! To reiterate an earlier analogy, if you were to be part of the design team and actually CREATE a new vehicle, you don't get royalties. I got news for you, if you're an engineer, and you design a system while working for an engineering firm, you don't get paid every time someone uses that system. If I'm a concept artist for a game company, I don't get royalties every time the game is sold. I personally work as an electrician, and helped design a piece of equipment for a factory, do you think I'm ever gonna see a fucking dime from anything that equipment produces?!
Going on Strike hurts everybody EXCEPT the actors/writers/producers/owners. Everybody else has to suffer so that writers can make more money, while they see NOTHING. FUCK THE WRITERS AND THEIR GREED -
If any of you had any brains, you'd be pirating everything you watch anyway that way you're not supporting anyone at all. Nobody's makin' any money off me, so you can all go to hell.
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And if writers NEED their residuals because they're sometimes "not working", they should get their asses in gear, and start making some better fucking content so that they ARE working. I don't get paid a damn thing if I end up putting in shitty performance at work and lose my job, why should they?
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Please stop complaining about needing an edit button just because you were too lazy to proofread your own post. It's getting kind of annoying. Back on topic... if you actually have the fucking audacity to call the writers greedy because they're trying to get reasonable payment for exhibition of the material they write, then I have equal right to call YOU greedy because you don't donate every cent of your disposable income to charity. For god's fucking sake, talk like an adult if you want to sit at the grown-ups' table.
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Let's say I wrote for an old show that's long since off the air. "My So Called-Life", for example. Why that show? BECAUSE ABC IS AIRING IT FOR FREE RIGHT NOW ON ITS WEBSITE, which is what the writers are protesting since they don't get anything for their material being used.
Now let's say I only wrote for that show and one other, and I busted my ass for four years before moving on.
Now let's say that the same network that cancelled my shows and put me out of work is suddenly making ad revenues off the website broadcasts and getting paid for the DVD box set, but I'm still not seeing a dime.
Is it really so much to ask that the people who wrote the goddamn show get an extra two cents on the dollar in residuals for that? I mean, considering ABC had nothing else to put on their website, which is why they dredged up a show that aired 14 years ago? Y'know, since nobody wants to watch their shitty fucking unscripted show about GODDAMN CELEBRITY IMPERSONATORS, which was hosted by a woman whose last name was (I shit you not) Merkin?
Plain and simple: ABC is profiting AGAIN off the work of those writers, and the writers aren't getting paid. Do you honestly mean to tell me you're all such huge emo pussies that you consider it more important for Jared Leto to get residuals than the people who wrote the show he was on? What, he needed more eyeliner?
Plain and simple: when a huge multinational media conglomerate is making billions of dollars off of somebody else's hard work, those people should get paid for their work--not fucked out of their mortgage payments by a bunch of coked up moneygrubbing rat bastards. -
Dec 21, 2007 5:12:12 PM CST
Writers arent the only ones that need to eat closed-minded fools
by mike_d
What about everybody else that works on these shows?! I think its ballsy that these guys are going back on the air without writers. At least they're saving jobs.
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i am thankful they're coming back. i need something to drown out the wife.
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Except everyone seems to like to ignore that the WGA has taken their issues far beyond that. By demanding jurisdiction over reality and animation (something the studios *do* legally have a right to issue an ultimatum over removing, regardless of the whining the WGA has done over it), they have exposed this about being more than "trying to get reasonable payment" and turned it into more of a powerplay for their union. And yes, *that* is greed. The WGA are the ones who made this no longer be about just money, not the studios. Big PR mistake on their part, considering the studios easily just told them to go to hell.
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Dec 21, 2007 6:02:11 PM CST
"Writers arent the only ones that need to eat closed-minded fool
by trumpyeatspotatoes
Totally agree. We should all help ourselves to a daily serving of close-minded fools to reduce the foolish population.
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But I do agree that the writers get all the press, whereas the plight of the other 95% of showbiz workers isn't being documented much at all. And the grips get paid mighty less than the scribes...
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What many of you seem to not realize is that writers aren't asking for MORE money...they're protecting the money they currently make. They currently make money every time a show is rerun on TV - but not when a show is viewed online. In a few years, more and more of TV will be online. If the studios won't pay for online streaming - then the writers are making a lot less!
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As great as they are, don't come up with the ideas that the studios then make millions - sometimes billions on. They are employees doing a learned skill and get paid well for that job.
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I think the issue is more that they have, for now, lost their jobs, same as the writers--but in being paid less than writers, they may be in a worse spot financially during the strike. But there's much less being said about their situation compared to the writers.
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Still in denial.
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Ive been out of a job since the strike. It sucks. No paycheck for almost 2 months. Savings gone. I love life.
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Maybe if the corporations would...I dunno...come back to the table and try to work out a deal - so many people may not be out of a job right now. Don't blame the writers, they're at least willing to negotiate. Oh - and to respond to someones comment a while back that an engineer who designs a new system doesn't make any money off of that design ---well fuck that. The engineer should make money. You're bitching to wrong point!
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Fair enough. No I do not have any proof to back up what I said. It was all just heresay, so I will concede on that part. And I never said that I didn't agree with the WGA strikers. I was just trying to add some perspective to the argument is all.
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I fail to see how this demonstrates the WGA's greed. If you write for an animated show, wouldn't you want the same coverage and rights to residuals as writers on a live action show? Here's the WGA's claims about animation from their proposal: "In 2004 and 2005, 100% of animated films in the top 100 were written by at least one WGA member. The WGA represents writers on all network primetime animations shows. Our members are writing scripts for both live action and animated features, but live action is currently covered and animation is not, even though the work of writing is the same. We are seeking recognition and full MBA coverage for all animated television motion pictures and all animated theatrical motion pictures except those already covered by another collective bargaining agreement."
And the whole 'reality' thing is part of a strategy so that if this happens again, the networks won't be able to rely on reality shows so heavily. But it's all part of negotiating. It's true, this issue of jurisdiction is contentious, and it's part of what's driving a wedge between the two sides. But greedy? I don't think so. Once again, it's the AMPTP who has walked away from negotiations. Not the writers. Which is why they've filed charges with the National Labor Relations Board to get them to return to the table.
'venom' - I'm glad you support the writers. It's just that this erroneous 'six-figure salary' thing is what leads to all the uninformed, ignorant and ridiculous statements I've seen here and elsewhere, that writers are being 'greedy.' Like, say, those of DJSpoonfed. I won't even go into every dumb statement in his post. But one - "Going on Strike hurts everybody EXCEPT the actors/writers/producers/owners" is especially ridiculous when writers are not working, not making money, and are losing jobs. They'd much rather be working and supporting their families, I think. But they've acknowledged that this is an important fight that affects members of every Hollywood union. Those with means (certain actors and writers) have actually raised money and participated in charity drives to help staff who are out of work (not just writers). It may be a drop in the bucket, but it's a heck of a lot more than the producers are doing. Anyway, you gotta hand it to a guy who complains about greed and then admits he pirates everything. -
Yeah I know, lol. It seems like that guy is on a whole other planet. Apparently he fails to realize that if EVERYONE pirated all of their movies and other media, we wouldn't HAVE any movies. At least not any big budget movies like we get today. What I would like to know is how much longer can the producers go on without writers? I mean... will would we see a huge impact? And when would THEY (the producers) see a huge impact on their own wallets to where they would realize and say "hey you know what, we're starting to lose a shit load of money here. Maybe we SHOULD cut a reasonable deal with the writers. I can't afford my townhouse or my Lamborghini payments anymore!"
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Dec 22, 2007 2:54:58 AM CST
we need a thread here for the strike-related awards shows issues
by trader groucho 2
just to the NMD's another excuse to contribute to global warming.
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danged lexdisia
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In an AMPTP statement, of course. Their propaganda machine moves on...
and another thing about that animation issue. I keep on reading in blogs that animation writers DO want to be covered by WGA benefits, because their own union sucks. So it's not like the WGA is strongarming them into joining. -
the today show, the tonight show, the late night show, the daily show, how can you tell all those shows apart? they all have basically the same fucking name
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Now all we need is The Late Night Daily-prone Todayishly Tonight Show. :P
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Dec 22, 2007 6:08:39 AM CST
ruven76 - why you are incorrect about the value of reality teeve
by trader groucho 2
The sad reality for the networks is that so-called Reality TV has essentially zero rerun value. So, yeah, it costs less to produce - at least partially because the producers circumvent the WGA by calling their writers "segment producers" or some other such nonsense, and by not paying their actors, I mean contestants (who have to do multiple takes of their "real" behavior for camera - just ask the stars of The Hills) residuals, but the networks don't get the bump - almost pure profit - from repeat showings and syndication.
IOW, we have yet to see a deal with a ton of zeroes on it for any reality show to go into second-run syndication. And once everyone knows who won Survivor, nobody cares. Okay, and in the case of Survivor, fewer and fewer viewers are caring anyway anymore.
The other problem with reality tv is that with only a small handful of exceptions like Survivor or American Idol, a successful reality tv show also has on averager a much shorter lifespan.
Ask NBC if they'd really swap their L&Os for Idol, or if CBS would lose their CSI shows before they'd drop Survivor and the Amazing Race. Spike TV dropped big bucks on CSI and Star Trek syndication rights, not Survivor or even Fear Factor.
Oh, and it's not the WGA who's mucking the pool. Verrone is ready and willing to negotiate whenever Nick Counter decides to come back to the table. And this isn't about money for the AMPTP. It never was. If it were, they would have acceded to the WGA positions a couple of months ago. They know how to crunch their numbers, and they've said they've already lost more than what the writers are asking for over the next three years (reference the MPAA report to the Los Angeles City Council on Friday).
There are egos involved, to be sure. AMPTP negotiator Nick Counter is the dude who got the great deal on DVD with the writers and actors, and he's determined to give nothing on the Internet. This is also Counter's last major negotiation cycle (writers now, actors in about six months) before he retires, and he wants to maintain his anti-union legacy.
Counter may have expected the WGA to buckle like in '88, but this is a very different, far more energized and unified union. Also, SAG knows that the WGA's fight is SAG's fight, and we're (I pay SAG dues) 100% behind them.
In 1988, the writers didn't know the value of movies on VHS (later DVD), let alone the value of television series. This time, the feature and TV writers are well aware that they're all doing essentially the same thing for the studios and the networks - producing content. Just as film and TV actors have relaxed a lot about going back and forth and working in both avenues, so have the writers.
In short, it ain't the writers denying you your fix of Lost or Heroes or 24 or whatever you're into. It's the AMPTP. -
and unionization has the main aim of protecting worker's rights (not maximizing or shit would never get done). The fact is, that though the media companies are undoubtedly going to make loads of money off of 'new-media' it isn't clear right now how much money they are making. If the WGA is looking to get something done (which would help thousands of non-writers) then they would take that clause of the table, with an agreement to come back to it in a few years, while settling over DVD revenue, still the big player. To bacci40, his analogy isn't as wrong as you suggest, the terms of engineers or designers handing over their work are inferred, to prevent them requires explicit contract stipulations, which are unlikely to be pursued as that person wouldn't be hired. My main problem with this is the framing of the debate, what seems to be ignored by the WGA is that writers are paid for their work (and many quite handsomely). Yes writers can find themselves out of work, but that is the same in any industry and it should be for the union to help them out, not the studios, failing that another job might be needed. I believe in the efficacy and necessity of unions, but I also perceive the arguments put forward by many WGA members in this instance to be rather spurious.
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oisin5199, jesus you say things like "the AMPTP propanganda machine rolls on" yet the majority of your opinions are based on what the WGA are saying. The WGA are a huge powerful organisation who force writers to sign up to them if they want to work. How the fuck is that allowed?! By having a strike, they are trying to force the hand of companies that earn billions and these companies will not back down to strike action, it will hit their share prices far too much. By trying to take action, the WGA have basically fucked the whole industry. It would have been far easier and more effective to challange a royalties contract in court to try and show that revenues from new media should be included in compensation to writers much like TV and DVD sales. They would have probably won with the public support behind them. By striking, they have lost pretty much all public support and will slowly lose the support of actors as well. They are fucked. I hate unions, never represent their members, only their personal egos. Fuckwits.
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"... Who are actually trying to equate intellectual property with assembly line work. These talkbackers never had respect for writers, from television or what have you, in the first place."
And you miss the point. The reason those assembly line workers or tomato pickers can succesfully strike is they produce a product that people NEED. Transport and Food. This gives them leverage. Whereas the WGA produces a pure luxury item. Entertainment. And they are fairly invisible to the consumers of said entertainment. this means the longer the strike goes on the more power and leverage they rapidly lose. people will look elsewhere for their entertainment and amusement. Granted this hurts the corps employing the writers, which is the goal. But not enough so that it gives the writers a huge amount of leverage to resolve it quickly on their terms. As a result the WGA has basically shot itself in the foot with this whole strike. They pissed off the consumers. They have royally pissed off the rest of the productions staffs (you know the thousands of non union people who work on these shows and are now un-employed before and over the holidays), and they have had marginal impact on the actual networks and corporations that they seek to leverage. Has one network gone black for lack of programing? Have the ratings and add revenues dropped in any way as a result of the strike? About the only point of preassure the writers had was the dailly shows such as Stewart, Colbert, Letterman and such. And they now appear to have lost that. -
DRAGON BALL TEASER TRAILER. REMOVE THE SPACES. http://movies.yahoo.com/premieres/5590019/standardformat/
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Well, we'll see what happens when the actors go on strike in a few months. Side note: Isn't it a bit silly that the studios have already lost more money during this strike than it would have cost just to give writers everything they were asking for? Go ahead and defend them, but that's pure ego.
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I predict a few broken knee-caps out of this.
I support the writers strike, but everyone else has to eat, pay their bills and support their families. The writers will get more leverage though once SAG goes on strike -- and Letterman on the air being a mouth-piece for the writers isn't a bad thing.
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How much money has the city of Los Angeles or New York City lost because of this strike? I do agree though that the greater public at large doesn't understand what their strike is all about nor do they generally care. They just want the SOMA back.
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Every time you see their costumes in an online presentation, they should get paid. They do MORE creative work than writers, and their job is harder-- Do you think it's EASY to make William Shatner look good on TV? Do you think it's SIMPLE to make the women on Desperate Housewives NOT look like shambling zombies made of random plastic parts? TV shows live or die on the costuming!!! Without the costume designer, you'd have NO IDEA which Star Trek crew member was going to die! LOST would be nothing without the awesome costuming. STARGATE ATLANTIS thrives on the designs of good costumers. BUFFY WOULD HAVE BEEN **WORTHLESS** WITHOUT THE COSTUME DESIGNERS!!!
---GIVE THE COSTUME DESIGNERS THEIR RESIDUALS!!--- -
That's right, fire the a-holes!
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Why didn't the writers have a plan in place to help other workers of their shows pay bills for the duration of the strike? They probably counted on support of the public once "little people" started getting fired left and right. And this practice of asking fans for donations is disgusting. R. Moore, millionare, asking a $7 hr. Joe for money, should be shot but he probably figures Joe doesn't deserve his money anyways because Joe is an assembly worker and not an intellectual like him.
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possibly because the writers aren't the producers???
possibly because that is not their responsibility???
possibly because the AMPTP backed them into a corner??? -
the polls indicate the public supports the writers.
as to who's shooting themselves in the foot, the studios and tv networks have already lost more money on this strike than what the writers are asking for the next three-year contract.
the barriers to entry into the tv networks' game are falling fast. within five years, so many people will have their big screens directly connected to the Internet that anyone with a few investors and a vision will be able to start their own web portal through which they deliver original high quality scripted serialized dramatic and comedic video programming - aka what we now recognize as a tv network.
great writers will be able to find work in those places, or get all entrepreneurial and start their own portals. while they look rich and powerful and they're being quite stubborn right now, it's the networks and studios that are floundering and suffering an identity crisis and simply not recognizing that in a entertainment world with far lower barriers to entry, good relations with creative talent will be the difference between relevance in twenty years, or being dumped like an old 8-track audio player. -
you suck.
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You know it. I know it. We all know it.
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And the SAG Awards will be televised.
So, who needs Oscars??? -
If the writers are as important as they claim to be to these shows, then why do they have a problem with them going back on the air? The shows should obviously be terrible without the writers, and this will strengthen their position in the strike. At the same time, the majority of the people who work on these shows (90%) get to keep their jobs and live their lives. Why should thousands of people be out of work so that a "relatively" small group of writers get the deal they want? The studios are obviously selfish, but anyone who thinks the WGA is a pillar of truth and nobility is either a fool or a card-carrying member.
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My impersonation of a TV writer. Thanks, I'll be here all weekend. In the meantime, enjoy the hot beer and cold girls (cue cymbal). 'Night! (canned applause).
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Yep, FTW (Fuck the Writers). There's more genuine comedy talent within these AICN talkbacks than among the netwroks. And I'm damn serious.
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Damn those corporations for trying to make money for their shareholders. And theres me thinking communism was a good idea. The WGA are sefish, greedy, egotistical fucks. They couldn't care less about the industry that has made them. Without money grabbing corporations you are left with public broadcasting like the BBC over here in the UK. Fuck you do not want that shit. $300 a year for shitty soaps, reality tv and gay chat show hosts. Oh and they strike as well. Fucking cocks.
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did you guys see RON PAUL on the colbert show??? fucking great! RON PAUL will end income tax, and make YOU rich!!! google RON PAUL YOUTUBE to see how RON PAUL can help YOU! in 2008 i am going to VOTE FOR RON PAUL.
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You spamming mother-fuck. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas except for you.
Pee-hole.\ -
oh wow look at the liberal hypocrits who are turning their backs on the union. i fucking love it.
i feel bad for the writers but at the same time wonder how long before networks decide to outsource their writing for shows...ie england or canada? btw why is it the writers can put shit up on youtube, explaining their case, and yet can't share where exactly, like right now, the negotiations are at?
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