Elston Gunn Interviews THE WATER HORSE DIRECTOR Jay Russell!!

Hello. Elston Gunn here. Years ago when I was doing the weekly recap, I specifically remember walking by the MY DOG SKIP movie poster at my local theater and recalling having read in the trades for the recap months before that the movie was being made, but the director's name, Jay Russell, was unfamiliar to me. Then, after MY DOG SKIP's positive reviews and profitable box office, I saw that Russell was the guy chosen to direct the adaptation of the much buzzed-about book TUCK EVERLASTING. I remember thinking Russell must be taking the stepping stone approach to his career, where each film is going to be a little big bigger than the last until he makes something like a big Spielbergian family adventure. And though my betting skills would leave a gambling Gunn homeless, that's pretty much what has happened. LADDER 49 followed in 2004 and now Russell has directed his big family adventure with Walden Media's THE WATER HORSE: LEGEND OF THE DEEP, based on the children's book by Dick King-Smith (BABE). The cast includes Alex Etel, Emily Watson, Ben Chaplin, David Morrissey and Brian Cox. Etel (MILLIONS) plays a lonely boy in World War II-era Scotland who discovers a special egg that soon hatches a mythical sea creature. Seven years after the moving MY DOG SKIP, the film brings Russell back to the story of seeing life through the relationship of a boy and his pet. (Interestingly enough, at one point Russell was also attached to direct a Disney remake of 1957's THE BRAVE ONE in which a Mexican boy befriends a bull). Sony will release THE WATER HORSE: LEGEND OF THE DEEP wide on December 25 and you can now check out a series of making-of video blogs on THE FILM'S OFFICIAL SITE. Russell took time to answer some questions for AICN.

[Elston Gunn]: It almost seems as if the features you have made up until now have been gearing you toward this particular film: a period piece about a boy and his pet (MY DOG SKIP), the charisma of youth (TUCK EVERLASTING), isolation and one's sense of adventure, danger and duty (LADDER 49). What was it that compelled you to sign on as the director for this one? [Jay Russell]: The script for THE WATER HORSE was initially submitted to me about 6 years ago, just after I had completed TUCK EVERLASTING. I felt the story was a continuation of the themes and ideas I had been exploring in both MY DOG SKIP and TUCK, but would present new challenges for me because of the amount of VFX work which would need to be done. The script, at that time, was owned by the old Miramax and had been a pet project of Harvey Weinstein's. Harvey had been a fan of SKIP and I guess that's how it got to me. However, it was decided by the studio that the VFX was going to be too expensive and the project was shelved, so I moved on to make LADDER 49. After I finished LADDER, I was having difficulty finding something that I really liked. I looked up at my bookshelf one day and saw THE WATER HORSE sitting there. I re-read it and fell in love with it all over again. As it turns out, the delay of making it was a good decision for the film, because the VFX technology has advanced so much since that time. I would have never have been able to do half the stuff I was able to do now... and for about half the cost. THE WATER HORSE is really a culmination of all of the films I've made up to this point. I'm very interested in the idea of 'carpe diem' and I found it to be a beautiful and exciting illustration of that theme.
[EG]: Do you see a consistent thread through your work? Going into one of your movies you think you're going to see a conventional film, but generally you have rather atypical downbeat, yet realistic endings for mainstream fare. And you don't mind pushing a few cry buttons. [JR]: The consistent thread is mortality and how we, as human beings, deal with loss - whether it's your favorite dog, or a family member (as in LADDER 49), or in the case of TUCK EVERLASTING, when everyone else around you is dying, but you can't. And I think that theme is especially resonant when it's experienced through the eyes of a child. I think the basis for this semi-obsession -- when I was a kid I was profoundly affected by the way people around me dealt with loss. I remember quite vividly going to old time, country Southern funerals with people wailing and moaning and singing 'out of tune' church hymns, and all the while there would be this dead body in an open casket practically staring at me. As I got older I wondered, 'Why did it have to be so awful? It's a natural part of life.' As for 'downbeat' endings, I believe if you set up an emotional situation, but back off it at the end, you're cheating the audience out of the cathartic experience they actually want and need. (I think I just answered my own question above.) I know I've been accused of pushing the 'cry button,' but I've never meant to do it in a manipulative way. There's a fine line between delivering an emotionally satisfying experience and going over the top. I'm happy to walk right up to that line, but I guess the danger is tripping over it. I was lucky enough to meet William Styron a few years ago at a screening of SKIP and he talked about the difference between true emotion and sentiment as opposed to treacle and sentimentality. Fortunately, he felt SKIP was the former rather than the latter. And then there are those who have trouble with any sort of emotion in film. As far as I'm concerned, that is their fucking problem and there's nothing I'm going to do to satisfy them.
[ EG]: Did you look to any other films for inspiration or point of reference for THE WATER HORSE? [JR]: Before I begin production of any film, I always go back to the films I've loved or in some way relate to the one I'm about to make. In this case, there were two obvious choices -- E.T. THE EXTRA TERRESTRIAL and THE BLACK STALLION. Both films were about boys without fathers who dealt with that emotion through the experiences and adventures with their non-human companion. Same is true for THE WATER HORSE. Others I re-watched were BABE, JAMES AND THE GIANT PEACH, FINDING NEMO, IRON GIANT, FREE WILLY, LASSIE, PETER PAN, SECRET OF ROAN INISH, SPIRITED AWAY, DUMA and WHALE RIDER.
[ EG]: In one of the making-of video blogs, which are neat but way too short, you feature author Dick King-Smith, who I could have listened to for an hour. What a fascinating guy. A farmer for over 20 years, then he starts teaching and doesn't publish his first children's book until he's in his late 50's. What kind of impression did he make on you? [JR]: One thing that's pretty cool about Dick, right off the bat: THE WATER WORSE is the third major motion picture made from one of his books. Not bad for a humble country English farmer in his 80's who lives in a small farmhouse with cast iron pigs in the front yard. I was also impressed with the peace he has in his life. He writes every day on an old standard typewriter in an office about the size of my half-bathroom. I hope I am able to one day experience his confidence and calm. He also has a good radar for great country English pubs which pour a nice pint. I'm always impressed with that quality in a fellow.
[EG]: Ben Chaplin, Emily Watson, David Morrissey, Brian Cox... very nice cast here. Does that make your job easier so you can concentrate on Crusoe, the water horse? And, of course, Alex Etel, who was amazing in MILLIONS. Had you already seen that film before you auditioned him? [JR]: Having a wonderful, professional group of actors like these always makes the job easier, but in this case because of the vast amount of blue screen and outdoor water work, it would have been impossible otherwise. True story of casting Alex: Once I decided I was going to make this film, the first person I thought of was Alex. I had just seen MILLIONS and loved the film and loved him in it. I went over to the UK for casting and told the casting director I wanted Alex to play the lead part of Angus MacMorrow. She said, 'OK, but don't you want to see some other kids first, just to make sure?' Being the neurotic that I am, that set off a two-month search across England, Ireland and Scotland for a kid. I personally read about 100 kids and saw tapes of, at least, a hundred more. Anyway, I saw some wonderful young actors, but none set off the bell in my head. I was back in London and pretty wiped out, thinking I was never going to find our kid. Then, it occurred to me: I still hadn't seen Alex Etel. We brought him down from Manchester to meet, and the moment he walked through the door I just wanted to slap myself on the forehead. 'You fucking idiot, of course it's Alex.' He was/is perfect for the part. At least I got to go to some cool places auditioning all those kids... As a P.S., I called Danny Boyle and said, 'Danny, give me one good reason not to cast this kid.' Danny said, 'Not only am I not going to give you that reason, you are going to make a star out of him.' Done deal.
[EG]: I know you're not going to make a family film that's just simply entertainment and that's it. You're going to cram some big themes in there. What would you say are some of the themes you wanted to make sure were present in the film? War looms in the background with Angus's father away, fighting in World War II. Did you specifically have in mind making a picture for kids whose parents are serving in Iraq? [JR]: I'd be lying if I said that never crossed my mind. But beyond our current situation, the film makes the overall point that War is bad for people, children, animals and even legendary sea monsters. Now, I realize I've spent most of this interview talking about death and war, but there's plenty of fun and adventure in THE WATER HORSE, as well. Really, there is. Really. It's not a downer, I promise. There are a lot of laughs and tears and excitement, too. I just tried to slip in a little meaning in there, so that, hopefully, kids will still be watching it years from now as we do our favorites from the past that had meaning for us.
[EG]: There were two different trailers for THE WATER HORSE earlier this year. One that played for the audience at the RockNess festival and, later, the version the studio released. The tones of each were extremely different. How would you describe the film in terms of tone? [JR]: The tone is probably somewhere in between those two trailers and there's a lot more to the film than is in either trailer. I would describe it, tonally, in the vein of the old Amblin, Spielberg adventures. Fun, but hopefully with some depth. The studio marketing group wanted to emphasize the 'fun for all ages' aspect of it in their materials and excite young kids into wanting to see it because of the funny creature. And ultimately, from a marketing standpoint, I'm sure they are taking the right path. Just sitting with family audiences and watching the trailer recently when I went to see ENCHANTED, I see that they've made the right decision. I've come to realize that marketing people know a lot more about marketing than I do. That's why they're marketing people.
[EG]: I like that the 'Surgeon's photo' is referenced in the movie as 'a fake.' [JR]: One of the clever things about the script is how the 'Surgeon's photo' of Nessie plays into the story. I won't spoil it, but there's a nice laugh when you see what happens when that photo of the creature is taken.
[EG]: Water tanks, lots of shots with special effects, blue screen, action set pieces... this is the biggest film in terms of scope and budget you've made thus far. How do you prevent yourself from feeling overwhelmed? [JR]: When Joe Letteri (Weta Digital VFX Guru Supreme) and I sat down for the first time, Joe gave me the best piece of advice ever. He said, 'we make these things one shot at a time.' And when you look at it that way, it really helps one from getting overwhelmed. You just deal with what's in front of you. You put the jigsaw puzzle together later, but first you just lay out the individual pieces.
[EG]: You have sung the praises of WETA during the process. What makes WETA so good at what they do and how did they help you through the process? [JR]: It's very simple - they're not sitting back on their past accomplishments. They want to get better and better and break new ground with each project. There were times we'd sit in dailies and look at the same shot over and over and over again, picking it apart, trying to figure out how to make it better. Then we'd send it back to the kitchen. We'd see the same shot again a few days later and we'd pick it apart all over again. They don't fatigue, they don't give up and say, 'that's good enough.' That's why they are who they are. They are also constantly looking for breakthroughs in technology. In our film, they were faced with two big challenges: 1) Having a human actor interact with digital water. I have not seen this done effectively before. I think they cracked it with this one. 2) Have a 100% digitally created creature interact with humans and digital and real water in broad daylight. Full body. Again, there are shots in there which I have never seen anything like it.
[EG]: How do you make the audience care for a CGI Crusoe? Is it as much in the actors' performances opposite the creature as it is the effects?? [JR]: It's both. When we first began designing the creature (named Crusoe after the kid's favorite book, ROBINSON CRUSOE), Creature Designer, Matt Codd and I sat down at the computer and began cutting and pasting different body and facial parts of many different animals together. We wanted to create something which seemed familiar, but was unique at the same time. As a result, Crusoe's face is a combination of a horse, a dog, an eagle and a giraffe. Then, we sketched out four different life stages for this animal from birth to fully grown. I took that design down to Weta Workshop in Wellington, NZ and sat with Gino Avecedo and Richard Taylor to realize these 2D sketches into 3D models, which could be scanned into the computers for animation. All of this process was needed so that once the 'digital Crusoe' was alive in the computer with a true skeletal and muscular structure, we could then give it a personality based on its true animal structure and not some contrived 'humanistic' cartoon creature traits. Everything Crusoe does in the movie is based on true animal behavior which myself and Weta studied through nature footage of seals, whales, dogs, etc. My theory behind this was if we made Crusoe a 'real animal,' and if I had Alex acting and behaving as though he were dealing with an animal instead of a cartoon character, the emotions would be real. Just like how we get emotional with our dogs or cats or whatever. I know it sounds like I smoked a ton of weed to come up with that theory, but I'm sticking with it because even now when I watch the film, I sometimes forget that the Water Horse was not with us on the set.
[EG]: How do you like directing a big feature vs. a smaller independent film? [JR]: It's the same process no matter the size or budget. The same problems occur. The same prep has to happen, you just adjust it to a larger or smaller scale. Actors still need your attention. You still have to improvise when everything goes wrong. And it always happens. I don't mean to sound flip about it, but that's simply the way I approach it. Just like Joe Letteri said, we make these things one shot at a time.
[EG]: You even have some non-fiction background, directing documentaries and even making a parks and tourism spot back in your home state of Arkansas for then governor Bill Clinton? What did you learn from working on non-fiction films that you can bring into the feature fold? [JR]: When shooting non-fiction, you rarely get take two. And it teaches you to think on your feet. For me, it was great training for moving fast on the set. When a 'scene' is playing out in front of you in real time, in real life, you have to do a split second shooting schematic - OK, close up here, shoot the hand there, back off to get a 'master shot.' But it's all happening simultaneously. I would suggest documentary shooting as a required course at a film school. It also teaches you to be able to read true moments of behavior. I found myself, after a while, being able to anticipate when a moment of emotion or truth was coming and have the camera in the right place to catch it.
[EG]: A Columbia grad with an MFA in screenwriting and directing, yet you have only one screenwriting credit. What's your relationship with the blank page? Do you develop your scripts a lot with other writers? [JR]: I spent a very dark period after my first feature attempting to 'develop' scripts within the studio system. No exaggeration, I almost went insane. I knew what I was writing was crap and I found it very depressing. It had nothing to do with filmmaking. That is why I threw myself into the 'non-fiction' world and that meant doing anything I could just to get behind a camera. I even shot a few AMERICA'S MOST WANTEDs. And you know what, it was fun. A hell of a lot more fun that trying to write a feature-length script based on a whim derived from some executive's asshole. Now, the joy I get out of writing is working with the screenwriter of the film I'm making. I still do a little writing on them myself, but I've had great fun working with writers like Bob Jacobs and Terry George and Audrey Wells and Jim Hart and so on...
[EG]: You're working with a different composer and cinematographer this time around. Were you concerned about developing new working relationships for a film of this size? [JR]: Since this film takes place in Scotland, I decided to have my primary collaborators all be from the UK. I didn't want to slip up on the look and authenticity. Tony Burrough, a Production Designer I've worked with on three films already was from the UK, so he stayed on, but this time I used John Bloomfield as a costume designer and Oliver Stapleton as a cinematographer. Also from the UK. It actually was invigorating to work with some new folks and get different points of view. Again, it's all the same process no matter who you are working with, but it was exciting for me to work with this new team. But by the end Oliver and I were bickering like an old married couple just as I had with James Carter on the three previous films. Nothing changes. And since I had worked with a mostly new group on this picture, I decided to do the same in post - new editor, composer, mixer, etc. James Newton Howard was a blast to work with. He's a terrific and prolific composer, but he is also a great record producer, as well. I had the time of my life watching him put the score together at Abbey Road with the LSO (London Symphony Orchestra) and the Chieftains. I could squint my eyes and almost imagine George Martin or Alan Parsons doing their magic in that famous studio.
[EG]: Speaking of music, tell us a little more about witnessing the Chieftains playing on the score and Sinead O'Connor singing a song for the film produced by Daniel Lanois. [VIDEO HERE] I just saw NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN, which had virtually no score. How important is the music to you? [JR]: Having studied music from the time I was five through college, I guess you could say it's kind of important. The truth is, I have to hear the sound of the score in my head before I can make the film. It actually puts the composer I work with in a terrible spot because they are having to compete with this 'fantasy score' I've created. The great thing about James is - he is such a musician, he listened to samples I played him and said, 'I think I know what you're going for and I think I can maybe make it a little better.' He did. Much better. One of the things he did to make it better was bringing in The Chieftains. Simply the greatest Celtic band in the world. They brought an organic quality and spirit to the score which perfectly matched the style of film I was making. And watching Paddy Maloney dragging weird instrument after weird instrument out of its case and making what looked like plumbing tools sing - it was sheer joy. Sinead O'Connor was my idea. Personally, I find that songs written for films tend to be redundant or superfluous to what we're watching. I think it's rare that a song actually enhances the experience. And still, I wanted to try to incorporate a piece at end the film, as though we'd just heard a campfire tale and then a song afterwards which allows us to reflect on the story, but I wasn't sure whether it would work. I contacted Sinead and sent her the script, fully expecting her to turn me down. The next time I heard from her, she sent me a rough demo of a song she had written and recorded in a hotel room after she finished the script. It was called "Back Where U Belong." Tears came to my eyes when I heard it. No matter what you think of her or her politics or behavior or whatever... she is a true artist and I feel fortunate to have had the pleasure of working with her. And then to have Daniel Lanois produce it, was just fucking crazy. In my opinion, Lanois always brings a distinctive, cinematic sound to a production. I was in awe of his creativity. At one point he had mikes on glasses of water and he was playing them with mallets. It was a very cool experience to say the least.
[EG]: As a former student of Milos Forman, during the AMADEUS era no less, what kind of practical advice did he give you that you implement in your work today? [JR]: He said a lot of things, but the one that continues to ring in my ears and I feel like I've implemented his suggestion - casting is 75% of making your film. Casting is everything. He's right. If you can get the right actors for the right parts, you're most of the way home.
[EG]: Your first film, END OF THE LINE, which was made through the Sundance Institute and features Wilford Brimley and Levon Helm stealing a train, celebrates its 20th anniversary next year. What goes through your head when you look back on the film and all that's happened since? [JR]: Man, that seems like an eternity ago. I was a kid when I made that movie and I feel like I've learned so much since then. But then again, I feel like I'm just starting now and have so much more to learn. I'm not going to reflect in any venerable way, but just be the broken record and say, 'we make these things one shot at a time.'
[EG]: What are you working on next? [JR]: I never really know what next is until I'm in pre-production. There are a couple of books I think might be interesting projects to pursue. And I'm always waiting for the perfect script to drop from heaven, but honestly, I'll be able to answer that question from the set of whatever comes next.

Elston Gunn elstongunn@hotmail.com http://www.myspace.com/elstongunnaicn