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Published on Thursday, December 6, 2007 - 9:03am |
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Massawyrm Talks THE GOLDEN COMPASS, Religion, And Harry's Review!!
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I love Harry. No, this isn't one of those It's his birthday so I'm gonna publicly fellate the boss sort of things. It's that while there are many times in which we feel the other is a complete motard for his opinions on a film, there are a lot of times in which we not only see eye to eye, but when one of us beats the other to a posted review, it almost seems pointless to post our own – it's all already been said. Sometimes we seem to peel the words right out of each others heads. And such is exactly how I feel about The Golden Compass. I thought I was in the clear. If I took a few hours to nap after an early morning screening I would be fine, right?
Wrong. Harry beat me to the punch. Tortoise and the Hare and all that shit. With dread I clicked open his story and read line by line as he spelt out virtually every feeling I had for the film. It is gorgeous, a unique and wonderfully conceived fantasy concept that plunks you right smack dab into a world you've never even pondered, but almost instantly believe exists. You sit there drinking in every moment of the first act enjoying all the various fantasy ideas brought together with even the most tired and clichéd among them seemingly having new life breathed into them. And for a while you miss just how hollow this film is. You don't realize just how hard this film is trying to keep its best secrets for itself.
The exposition is thick as an ice cream cake fresh out of the freezer and just about as easy to cut through. There's a lot of information they want to lay out, a lot of questions they want you to ask while simultaneously refusing to answer almost any of them. That's what the next two films are for….and that's where this film begins to suffer its chief and most debilitating flaw. It operates under the assumption that there will definitely be a second and third film and has an ending that feels awfully familiar as a result. Remember how a large number of people felt a little let down at the end of Fellowship of the Ring? Remember that really, that was the climax feeling? Well imagine that without the promise of a followup film the following Christmas. That's what the final act of The Golden Compass feels like.
Now I'm certain that if this does well enough the answers will really begin to flow in the next film. But how long am I gonna have to wait? Is it a sure thing? Will it ever even happen? These are the thoughts running through your head at the end of this. And it shouldn't. A first film like this really needs to feel like it stands on its own, really needs to feel like its own thing, like something I WANT more of…not NEED more of to feel complete. But The Golden Compass has a big glaring TO BE CONTINUED practically plastered across its third act and it is kind of a let down in that way.
But it is beautiful. There are some killer moments and visuals that make you feel like a kid again. If you haven't read Harry's review, do so. He addresses all the salient details worth mentioning about this film – except he somehow forgot to mention the sheer awesomeness of every moment Sam Elliot is on the screen. Is it a SAG rule that all cowboy stereotypes MUST be played by Elliot, or is it that he is just sugarfried awesome with a hint of musk? Who cares. He kicks ass.
But is the film offensive? No. I've gotta side with the American Catholic Bishops that viewed this film rather than the headline grabbing William Donohue and his Catholic League. Sure, when viewed by an adult familiar with Pullman's religious stances and the overall theme of the books – yeah, there's still enough there for a reasoned adult to see the themes. But when viewed on its own, looked at without a lot of the contextual references that New Line and Weitz were very careful to excise from this mass distributed version of the story, there is nothing deliberately anti-religion, anti-god or especially anti-catholic. Does the Magesterium look a lot like the very worst of the Catholic church? Sure – there's a definite aspect of the Inquisition to it. But it is nothing to get in a twist over – just the usual anti-authoritarian stuff prevalent in just about every great adventure story ever written. But it's not like there really are still Catholics out there trying to tell us what we should watch, read or think...is there?
Oh.
And this bollocks about the movie being a gateway to the books – which admittedly do contain some anti-religious/anti-Christian sentiments – dude, if it bothers you don't let your kids read the books. It really is that simple. Tell them that the movie's different. It is. And it's safe. You know, as safe as a PG-13 movie can be. Donohue and his bunch have really kind of missed the point here. New Line specifically toned down the offensive content as not to rile up the boycotters, to provide a film that entertained instead of proselytized – and rather than thanks, they get calls of a boycott. Just what kind of message are you trying to send there, Bill? If you take issue with the books, caution parents against the books – not the movie that had its offensive bits sanitized.
Overall, it is a film worth checking out. I enjoyed it and found some of the bits to be a collection of truly perfect moments. But it feels incomplete. Maybe once I've gotten through to the end of the third, all of the holes will have been filled in with the awesomeness to follow. I mean, no one is let down by the ending of FotR anymore, are they? Instead they just get excited to throw in disc 3 of what is a 6 disc movie. Maybe I'll feel like that one day. But today, I feel like the movie kept all of the best stuff to itself for later. This comes Recommended to anyone who considers themselves a fantasy fan or has kids old enough to take to a PG-13 movie. It might not tickle your pink parts for two hours, but it will entertain you.
Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Massawyrm
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Reader Talkback
First by Kizeesh | Dec 6th, 2007 08:11:48 AM | First by Kizeesh | Dec 6th, 2007 08:11:51 AM | I didnt like Pullman's
comments on Tolkein by cromwell1666 | Dec 6th, 2007 08:12:21 AM | Be wary by cromwell1666 | Dec 6th, 2007 08:17:03 AM | Doubly beaten by Kizeesh | Dec 6th, 2007 08:17:19 AM | Agreed by batjac | Dec 6th, 2007 08:18:35 AM | 6th! by Live. | Dec 6th, 2007 08:29:49 AM | Bow before my noodly
appendage! by Flying Spaghetti Monster | Dec 6th, 2007 08:31:09 AM | If I was a conservative
Catholic by norrinrad | Dec 6th, 2007 08:31:23 AM | why shouldn't there be
anti-religious films? by Frank Black | Dec 6th, 2007 08:36:45 AM | Seriously Insecure Sky Fairy
Believers by Aquatarkusman | Dec 6th, 2007 08:40:27 AM | Frank Black by m2298 | Dec 6th, 2007 08:55:15 AM | You should have compared the
ending . . . by Nice Marmot | Dec 6th, 2007 09:01:42 AM | It's not that by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:08:18 AM | If you haven't read the books
don't kid yourself by Olowyn | Dec 6th, 2007 09:08:29 AM | Just like by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:09:04 AM | I won't see it by dukrous | Dec 6th, 2007 09:12:26 AM | m2298 by Frank Black | Dec 6th, 2007 09:14:48 AM | You all talk shit by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:17:09 AM | More importantly... by Frank Black | Dec 6th, 2007 09:21:25 AM | Skull1138 by Kizeesh | Dec 6th, 2007 09:25:27 AM | Religion by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:35:55 AM | Massawyrm, Princess of Power? by expert_40 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:37:34 AM | How would christians and right
wingers feel if the
"magisterium" by Brian 2000 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:42:31 AM | by Brian 2000 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:44:57 AM | Kizeesh...Give me a break by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:50:09 AM | 'no one is let down by the
ending of FotR are they?' by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:54:58 AM | leobloom by LegoKenobi | Dec 6th, 2007 10:00:24 AM | Skull1138 is a published
writer? by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 10:01:59 AM | Skull1138 - a word on
etiquette by Kizeesh | Dec 6th, 2007 10:04:44 AM | paragraph breaks by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 10:05:27 AM | Acceptance of crticism by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 10:22:30 AM | Paragraphs by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 10:23:34 AM | Donahue... by Kid Z | Dec 6th, 2007 10:24:17 AM | Pullman versus Tolkien by zinc_chameleon | Dec 6th, 2007 10:25:42 AM | by Kizeesh | Dec 6th, 2007 10:27:43 AM | I SUPPORT THE AMERICAN
CATHOLIC BISHOPS ON THIS ONE! by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 10:28:37 AM | Haven't read the books, won't
pay to see the movie by TVGuy Returns | Dec 6th, 2007 10:28:52 AM | Tolkien by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 10:35:23 AM | You May Be Right, TVGuy: by Aquatarkusman | Dec 6th, 2007 10:36:59 AM | TVGuy Returns: Actually,
Pullman's books aren't atheist by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 10:41:06 AM | SKULL1138: Not within the
confines of LOTR by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 10:46:22 AM | Me again by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 10:49:42 AM | It worked by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 10:51:09 AM | What Gandalf said: by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 11:00:11 AM | Crunchy Catholic Goddness! by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:04:03 AM | Most people don't even know
what an Atheist is by performingmonkey | Dec 6th, 2007 11:09:34 AM | 'potentially' by tikibars | Dec 6th, 2007 11:11:29 AM | "It's raw, instinctive." ...
which is why it's not
religion's fa by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 11:12:40 AM | The word that got cut off was
'fault' by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 11:14:43 AM | I think most Atheist know what
they are by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:15:01 AM | Donohue is beyond fringe -
seriously by Yeti | Dec 6th, 2007 11:18:55 AM | That *was* the ending of FotR
in the book, dude by LordMadhammer | Dec 6th, 2007 11:22:33 AM | "That *was* the ending of FotR
in the book, dude" by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 11:26:38 AM | Chrth: C.S. Lewis and Tolkien
Differed Radically by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:39:12 AM | Bad Things Done Without
Religion by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:42:48 AM | I'm Reading FotR Right Now,
Actually by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:46:27 AM | So do Athiests celebrate
Christmas? by WickedMonster | Dec 6th, 2007 11:46:46 AM | chrth... by expert_40 | Dec 6th, 2007 11:51:04 AM | Bad things done by
authoritarian bullies by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:51:22 AM | Pullman Isn't Fit to Lick
Tolkien's Boots by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:51:25 AM | arguably both those examples
were Religious atrocities by Lost Jarv | Dec 6th, 2007 11:51:53 AM | expert_40: I'm not saying it
was a bad change by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 11:56:05 AM | Lost Jarv: Works the other
way, though by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 11:57:09 AM | Kids Reading Pullman's Books by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:58:29 AM | I’m an Atheist and I LOVE
CHRISTMAS by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:59:04 AM | Dukrous are you an idiot? by arrangedletters | Dec 6th, 2007 12:00:20 PM | I'll go to this BECAUSE of all
the Catholics getting upset by TotoroSan | Dec 6th, 2007 12:00:32 PM | Dukrous are you an idiot? by arrangedletters | Dec 6th, 2007 12:01:25 PM | I am that I am by Flying Spaghetti Monster | Dec 6th, 2007 12:04:37 PM | Communism as a Religion by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 12:05:34 PM | Why I Like Religious Fanatics by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 12:06:29 PM | Yes, but the movie is poor by Merriman Lyon | Dec 6th, 2007 12:06:32 PM | The books are terrific by Trazadone | Dec 6th, 2007 12:07:36 PM | Chrth and Kevin by Lost Jarv | Dec 6th, 2007 12:08:12 PM | The Books are not terrific by Lost Jarv | Dec 6th, 2007 12:10:07 PM | The Problem by HailDaHypnoToad | Dec 6th, 2007 12:14:48 PM | I'm a Christian by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 12:19:59 PM | And Despite The Whiners On
Either Side by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 12:22:17 PM | Nicole Kidman + Daniel Craig by tme2nsb | Dec 6th, 2007 12:33:07 PM | When this movie fails by I Dunno | Dec 6th, 2007 12:35:43 PM | Let's just agree on some terms
here guys... by eXcommunicated | Dec 6th, 2007 12:36:27 PM | It's amazing in this day and
age by kwisatzhaderach | Dec 6th, 2007 12:37:02 PM | I believe in Paul Ateides! by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 12:44:28 PM | the interesting thing about
Tolkien is: by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 12:48:00 PM | I just wish... by CatVutt | Dec 6th, 2007 12:48:55 PM | Religio-Phobes vs
Atheist/Agnostics by TVGuy Returns | Dec 6th, 2007 12:49:16 PM | as a man of faith... by ArcadianDS | Dec 6th, 2007 12:59:41 PM | KevinWillis by HailDaHypnoToad | Dec 6th, 2007 01:02:40 PM | TVGuy... by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 01:30:40 PM | Beware the evil atheists! by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 01:42:31 PM | Spelt? Are you fucking
serious? by queerfilmjunkie | Dec 6th, 2007 01:45:20 PM | The Flaw in Those Who Know by flossygomez | Dec 6th, 2007 01:52:42 PM | Lets try and remember.... by Cameron1 | Dec 6th, 2007 01:53:58 PM | and no... by flossygomez | Dec 6th, 2007 01:54:39 PM | No, Pulman was more concerned
with the corruption of
religion... by KillaKane | Dec 6th, 2007 02:02:30 PM | Samsquanch by HailDaHypnoToad | Dec 6th, 2007 02:04:36 PM | Pullman said Narnia was racist by drewlicious | Dec 6th, 2007 02:09:28 PM | Agnostics... by queerfilmjunkie | Dec 6th, 2007 02:10:32 PM | I'm an agnostic when it comes
to wrinkle-free cotton. by CatVutt | Dec 6th, 2007 02:18:10 PM | I'm agnostic, dyslexic and
insomniac by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 02:25:59 PM | Rotten Tomatoes: 40 reviews,
48% on the Tomatometer by Curious_Jorge | Dec 6th, 2007 02:41:34 PM | agnostic by oisin5199 | Dec 6th, 2007 02:42:09 PM | "spelt" is still a legit usage by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 02:49:47 PM | I have an issue with *some*
agnostics by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 02:56:32 PM | oisin5199: Spiritualist?
(non-psychic variety) by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 02:57:14 PM | Christians! - Get A Grip!! by Sagart1994 | Dec 6th, 2007 03:08:01 PM | Frank Black by Tai_Pan | Dec 6th, 2007 03:11:42 PM | Athiests are just in denial by alienindisguise | Dec 6th, 2007 03:23:41 PM | Arms and legs by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 03:25:29 PM | Great Reasoning by Aquatarkusman | Dec 6th, 2007 03:25:33 PM | Edit by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 03:27:59 PM | Aquatarkusman. by CatVutt | Dec 6th, 2007 03:30:09 PM | And yes, 'spelt' is fine. by CatVutt | Dec 6th, 2007 03:35:52 PM | Boycott vs. Censorship by homer40 | Dec 6th, 2007 03:41:55 PM | If you see one film this year,
make it The Golden Compass! by William Landis | Dec 6th, 2007 03:50:00 PM | Homer by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 03:55:08 PM | homer40 by Massawyrm 1 | Dec 6th, 2007 03:57:35 PM | It's not just Donohue by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 04:04:49 PM | i kinda hope it bombs too by Rupee88 | Dec 6th, 2007 04:19:37 PM | ATTN: There is a TB headline
character limit by thebearovingian | Dec 6th, 2007 04:32:10 PM | alienindisguise: Look up
'circular logic' by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 04:45:35 PM | I always wonder why religious
people get so mad by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 04:57:31 PM | samsquanch by uppercanuck | Dec 6th, 2007 05:10:31 PM | Fear by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:13:03 PM | Proving by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:27:23 PM | Thanks For The Excellent
Review by smallerdemon | Dec 6th, 2007 05:29:08 PM | 'to illustarrte his beliefs' by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:30:33 PM | Newc by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:39:35 PM | You left out part of the name. by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:46:29 PM | irony about your review by Mazzke | Dec 6th, 2007 05:46:47 PM | And for a couple other
things... by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:48:31 PM | so then, jsm1978 by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 05:52:44 PM | Proof by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:53:55 PM | samsquatch by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:54:58 PM | A & E by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 05:56:38 PM | Massawyrm 1 by TruPhan | Dec 6th, 2007 06:01:44 PM | A & E by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:03:57 PM | Interaction by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:05:38 PM | not to be too argumentative,
but by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 06:07:20 PM | last post was to jsm1978 by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 06:08:43 PM | last post was to jsm1978 by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 06:08:45 PM | JSM by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:10:46 PM | Why not? by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:13:27 PM | Tomorrow by SKULL1138 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:16:10 PM | Change? by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:17:57 PM | jsm1978 by TruPhan | Dec 6th, 2007 06:20:52 PM | I'm not asking them for myself by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:21:32 PM | Good question by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 06:26:08 PM | Well, as a Christian by TruPhan | Dec 6th, 2007 06:27:16 PM | TruPhan by Massawyrm 1 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:28:52 PM | Don't get me wrong... by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:29:35 PM | People are going to get tired
of seeing my name... by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:32:49 PM | Massawyrm 1 by TruPhan | Dec 6th, 2007 06:37:35 PM | How can they remove the
anti-Christian theme? by KCMOSHer | Dec 6th, 2007 06:44:41 PM | off by jsm1978 | Dec 6th, 2007 06:45:00 PM | I'm a Christian, a Christian
(first name), and a Talkbacker by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 06:47:14 PM | "share my views on that than
those that don't" by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 06:52:30 PM | Massawyrm, good
review/comments by gorydon | Dec 6th, 2007 06:53:13 PM | what a strange attitude by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 06:56:06 PM | "How can they remove the
anti-Christian theme?" by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 07:15:48 PM | Massawyrm: You Got Lots of
Christian Talkbackers, Too by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 07:16:10 PM | Where Morality Springs from,
for an Atheist by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 07:17:55 PM | I Used to Be An Atheist by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 07:18:33 PM | Sure its only Islam which has
crazy fundamentalists by Miyamoto_Musashi | Dec 6th, 2007 07:18:59 PM | As a devil worshipper, i
encourage you to boycott TGC by newc0253 | Dec 6th, 2007 07:19:30 PM | I Suck at Being a Christian by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 07:22:36 PM | Miyamoto_Musashi by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 07:24:17 PM | To Any Boycotters, I would
Just say by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 07:27:00 PM | hey kevin by samsquanch | Dec 6th, 2007 07:33:42 PM | Lets settle LOTR once and for
all!! by carrotop361 | Dec 6th, 2007 07:50:51 PM | one final note by carrotop361 | Dec 6th, 2007 07:54:18 PM | CarrotTop by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 08:09:17 PM | Hey, Samsquanch by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 08:12:02 PM | Feel sorry for the Pagans by Miyamoto_Musashi | Dec 6th, 2007 08:17:07 PM | C.S. Lewis Described Lord of
the Rings Thusly by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 08:19:23 PM | Don't Forget the First Church
of Climate Change by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 08:21:39 PM | "Here are beauties which
pierce like swords . . . " by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 08:22:40 PM | kevinwillis.net by carrotop361 | Dec 6th, 2007 08:29:14 PM | CarrotTop: I Can Certainly See
That by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 08:35:44 PM | alienindisguise by Clancy Van Lustbader | Dec 6th, 2007 08:57:08 PM | I'm not worried about
Christians or Muslims by Clancy Van Lustbader | Dec 6th, 2007 09:00:26 PM | I celebrate Christmas too... by WickedMonster | Dec 6th, 2007 09:29:05 PM | Wow by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 09:30:35 PM | I celebrate Christmas as the
birth of my savior, by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 09:31:42 PM | With more serious reference to
the discussion by Clancy Van Lustbader | Dec 6th, 2007 09:33:22 PM | Why Boromir dies by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 09:33:57 PM | it was a joke chrt by carrotop361 | Dec 6th, 2007 09:40:41 PM | I Celebrate Christmas by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 09:43:40 PM | Boromir Dies to Protect the
Halflings by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 09:45:07 PM | Clancy by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 09:50:56 PM | Oh, and 'My captain, my King' by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 09:52:05 PM | Foolish to compare to end of
FOTR by AntoniusBloc | Dec 6th, 2007 09:59:35 PM | Boromir's death was actually
(IMO) the only by chrth | Dec 6th, 2007 10:10:43 PM | It's up to Parents by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 10:17:46 PM | Massawyrm's response to
Truphan is BS by AntoniusBloc | Dec 6th, 2007 10:21:22 PM | Destruction is Creative by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 10:28:51 PM | He was 'always' right by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 10:29:54 PM | Clancy, stop being intolerant by AntoniusBloc | Dec 6th, 2007 10:41:12 PM | Harlocks, to quote Will Smith by AntoniusBloc | Dec 6th, 2007 10:51:23 PM | Ha, ha, sorry, ha by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 10:57:28 PM | quick and easy harlock balls by carrotop361 | Dec 6th, 2007 11:08:02 PM | I don't believe in Athiests by hatespeech | Dec 6th, 2007 11:14:26 PM | Or, Tolkien and Lewis's
Messages Were . . . by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:14:34 PM | I'm Something of a Calvinist
on The Issue of Faith by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:20:12 PM | God is Just by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:20:40 PM | The Physical Evidence for God by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:21:53 PM | Antonius: I'm not pushing any
specific agendas by Clancy Van Lustbader | Dec 6th, 2007 11:23:54 PM | Because it was stupid? by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:26:50 PM | Harlocks Balls by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:29:56 PM | You're Actually Right, Harlock by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:34:57 PM | Jesus Has Lots of Good Stuff
to Say by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:40:31 PM | God is Just by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:44:42 PM | To kevinwillis' first reply by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:47:25 PM | the are three choices for the
orgin of matter by carrotop361 | Dec 6th, 2007 11:49:44 PM | the are three choices for the
orgin of matter by carrotop361 | Dec 6th, 2007 11:49:47 PM | Clancy Van Lustbader,
Communism is Secular by kevinwillis.net | Dec 6th, 2007 11:54:00 PM | 2nd law thermodynamics by Harlocks Balls | Dec 6th, 2007 11:59:28 PM | Harlocks Balls, If You Erase a
Line by kevinwillis.net | Dec 7th, 2007 12:00:21 AM | Not even The Invasion? by Harlocks Balls | Dec 7th, 2007 12:02:08 AM | I Personally Don't Think There
is Incontrovertible Evidence
for by kevinwillis.net | Dec 7th, 2007 12:05:44 AM | I Will Boycott No Movie by kevinwillis.net | Dec 7th, 2007 12:06:29 AM | Kevinwillis: No secular
influence doesn't insure
anything by Clancy Van Lustbader | Dec 7th, 2007 12:17:51 AM | TGC opens with a Milton line. by Lenny Nero | Dec 7th, 2007 12:27:02 AM | True Skepticism- David Hume's
skepticism by cromwell1666 | Dec 7th, 2007 12:28:37 AM | Relativity and God by cromwell1666 | Dec 7th, 2007 12:37:00 AM | carrotop361, your reasoning
is seriously convoluted...... by Kai_Mah'gra | Dec 7th, 2007 12:39:18 AM | ......utlimately the whole
debate and argument.... by Kai_Mah'gra | Dec 7th, 2007 12:47:30 AM | Don't be so sure that by cromwell1666 | Dec 7th, 2007 12:48:47 AM | Clancy- I disagree by samsquanch | Dec 7th, 2007 01:05:25 AM | one caveat: by samsquanch | Dec 7th, 2007 01:22:09 AM | Bombs away! by thegreatwhatzit | Dec 7th, 2007 01:53:43 AM | WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?? HE'D SAY
"WHO CARES." by TheDohDoh | Dec 7th, 2007 02:02:42 AM | Samsquanch: Your points are
very valid by Clancy Van Lustbader | Dec 7th, 2007 02:17:43 AM | how can something be 'very
valid'? by newc0253 | Dec 7th, 2007 03:40:16 AM | Today by SKULL1138 | Dec 7th, 2007 04:30:29 AM | Mandalorian by SKULL1138 | Dec 7th, 2007 05:01:27 AM | Christians eat the lions yet
again by HarryBlackPotter | Dec 7th, 2007 06:43:50 AM | "Worst. Idea. Ever."
Actually, it wasn't by chrth | Dec 7th, 2007 08:07:46 AM | only....your wrong chrth by carrotop361 | Dec 7th, 2007 08:17:06 AM | God isn't a physical being by TruPhan | Dec 7th, 2007 08:17:30 AM | But if someone sold you an
invisible bridge by Harlocks Balls | Dec 7th, 2007 08:27:08 AM | 'Cosmic Vomit' by jsm1978 | Dec 7th, 2007 09:13:25 AM | great reply, Clancy by samsquanch | Dec 7th, 2007 09:25:02 AM | Summing up by HailDaHypnoToad | Dec 7th, 2007 09:41:26 AM | Moses by SKULL1138 | Dec 7th, 2007 09:53:25 AM | Big Bang by SKULL1138 | Dec 7th, 2007 10:04:44 AM | Catholics support the Big Bang
& SKULL1138 by chrth | Dec 7th, 2007 10:36:24 AM | chrth by SKULL1138 | Dec 7th, 2007 10:46:59 AM | the Big Band bandwagon? by newc0253 | Dec 7th, 2007 10:47:17 AM | Oh and Moses by chrth | Dec 7th, 2007 10:47:19 AM | And some info from Wiki
(consider the source) by chrth | Dec 7th, 2007 10:48:18 AM | Newton discovered Gravity, he
also believed in goblins: by newc0253 | Dec 7th, 2007 10:49:18 AM | Big Band bandwagon: Just Duke
Ellington by chrth | Dec 7th, 2007 10:49:44 AM | Newton was actually devoutly
religious by chrth | Dec 7th, 2007 10:53:13 AM | yes, devoutly religious by newc0253 | Dec 7th, 2007 10:56:33 AM | Does anyone realize... by WickedMonster | Dec 7th, 2007 11:46:25 AM | Samsquanch by Captain Mal | Dec 7th, 2007 11:47:40 AM | I have a hard time believing
that people don't believe in
God by Kloipy | Dec 7th, 2007 12:13:57 PM | From a Christian perspective by AntoniusBloc | Dec 7th, 2007 12:14:32 PM | Boycott by homer40 | Dec 7th, 2007 12:56:20 PM | Kloipy, interesting post by samsquanch | Dec 7th, 2007 01:03:29 PM | Samsquanch by AntoniusBloc | Dec 7th, 2007 01:19:46 PM | evolution is 'just a theory'? by newc0253 | Dec 7th, 2007 01:35:38 PM | I'm Glad You're Using That
Artwork More Often by Kragmose | Dec 7th, 2007 01:48:24 PM | samsquanch by Kloipy | Dec 7th, 2007 02:22:51 PM | Yourdaemon.com by YourDaemon | Dec 7th, 2007 02:55:22 PM | Antonius by samsquanch | Dec 7th, 2007 02:56:46 PM | Cheers Kloipy by samsquanch | Dec 7th, 2007 02:59:47 PM | I'd just like to live in a
world by Kloipy | Dec 7th, 2007 03:03:10 PM | amen to that, brother. by samsquanch | Dec 7th, 2007 03:06:47 PM | Kloipy, I really hope you were
joking about the 10% by chrth | Dec 7th, 2007 04:04:33 PM | carrotop36: "No one on
earth..." by Billy Goat | Dec 7th, 2007 05:30:00 PM | Link: Things Christians &
atheists must agree on by Billy Goat | Dec 7th, 2007 05:37:24 PM | tsk tsk tsk, samsquatch by jsm1978 | Dec 7th, 2007 06:00:57 PM | Where do the un-religious get
morals by Billy Goat | Dec 7th, 2007 06:01:06 PM | As for the "just a theory"... by jsm1978 | Dec 7th, 2007 06:03:21 PM | Logic by jsm1978 | Dec 7th, 2007 06:06:15 PM | Billy Goat by carrotop361 | Dec 7th, 2007 06:39:02 PM | Religion is a crutch for the
weak by BrowncoatJedi | Dec 7th, 2007 08:05:36 PM | Carrotop, watch the words
there. by Lenny Nero | Dec 7th, 2007 08:20:15 PM | The problem with Pullman's
works: by drJames | Dec 7th, 2007 09:20:40 PM | having said that... by drJames | Dec 7th, 2007 09:38:11 PM | sorry Lenny. your right by carrotop361 | Dec 7th, 2007 11:11:19 PM | The problem with Pullman's
writing PtII by irritable | Dec 8th, 2007 02:17:55 AM | Why Christians Get Kicked In
the Nuts and Jews Don't... by micturatingbenjamin | Dec 8th, 2007 02:18:28 AM | "if it bothers you don't let
your kids read the books" by Immortal_Fish | Dec 8th, 2007 10:10:15 AM | DOES ANYONE CARE? by moviemo | Dec 9th, 2007 12:44:11 AM | TEST by Seph_J | Dec 9th, 2007 07:25:40 AM | Kloipy by Kizeesh | Dec 9th, 2007 11:34:22 AM | paragraph breaks are cool,
let's try them out by polyh3dron | Dec 9th, 2007 03:32:50 PM | Kizeesh by Kloipy | Dec 10th, 2007 07:19:15 AM | Kloipy, my faith is in other
people. by Lenny Nero | Dec 10th, 2007 01:22:03 PM | Kloipy: meaning by Billy Goat | Dec 10th, 2007 05:38:39 PM | Billy Goat, you aren't missing
the point by Immortal_Fish | Dec 10th, 2007 08:49:35 PM | Samsquanch, Browncoat Jedi,
Pullman, and
mictoratingbenjamin an by AntoniusBloc | Dec 10th, 2007 09:39:17 PM | Immortal_Fish, a word: by Lenny Nero | Dec 11th, 2007 12:30:26 AM | Lenny Nero and Billy Goat by Kloipy | Dec 11th, 2007 02:41:03 PM | Also you can't rely on science by Kloipy | Dec 11th, 2007 03:00:11 PM |
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