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Published on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 4:01am |
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EDITORIAL: Moriarty grapples and debates the issues of violence and film as raised on 60 MINUTES!
Alright, this is a change of pace folks. Yesterday, I gave Moriarty a call to ask whether he'd seen my SISKEL AND EBERT show yet, but... Our conversation turned to yesterday's 60 MINUTES, and... As commentators on film, and armed with the knowledge that Hollywood's studios are the biggest pack of spineless cowards the world has ever seen.... We decided, to address the issue. A tough one. Does Filmic Violence Influence Children To Kill? AND Should The Filmmakers Be Held Accountable?
A Short Story before I hand you over to Moriarty. My parents referred to me as the 'great experiment' growing up as a child. They decided to see what would happen if you inundated and raised a child on a massive influx of Violent and Subversive film, comics and games. As a result I grew up watching NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD over 40 times by the time I reached 8 years of age. I have seen with (and without) parental supervision since the dawn of memory Film Violence. I'm an Eagle Scout. I have a very strong sense of morality. I was chosen as one of the Future Young Leaders Of Tomorrow and sent to represent Texas in Washington D.C.
I harbored many violent thoughts about my mother when she divorced my Dad, became an alcoholic and began a strong abusive streak that lasted 6 years of my life. I wished her dead. It was film that had taught me that if I attempted to kill her myself, I'd be caught... and punished. When my mother dove into a pool drunk, I stood and watched her sink to the bottom. I was just gonna let her die, but I couldn't. I dove in, brought her out, performed CPR and brought her back to life. This.... From a child raised on Chainsaw Murders, Crossdressing Butcher Knife Wielders. A kid that could quote out loud all the dialogue to DAWN OF THE DEAD. But through all that horror and all that violence, I learned the true lesson of Horror and Violent films... And that is life is precious. Something to Fight For. Something I could never take away, lest I become the monster.
We live in a society today that has problems with children and parents communicating. A world where both parents are required to work, thus allowing a lot of time for unsupervised behavior. My father and mother worked. But they never minded coming home and reading FAMOUS MONSTERS OF FILMLAND to me as a child. They involved themselves in everything I was fascinated in. We weren't rich monetarily, just rich in communication.
Now, read what our dear Professor must teach 60 MINUTES about journalism and the issues of violence in film and our lives...
Hey, Head Geek...
"Moriarty" here.
Tonight I'm going to dispense with all the usual
trappings of my spy reports to speak to you and our
readers from my heart. What I'm going to discuss here
is controversial, and I'm sure that just as many of
you will disagree with me as agree. I'm sure the TALK
BACK for this article will be heated. Before we get
to any of that, though, I need to make my feelings on
one subject very clear.
What happened to those kids in Littleton was a
tragedy. There is no bright spot, no one redeeming
note to the story. I am heartsick at the thought of
what that community is going through. The families of
the victims have my absolute empathy. They are purely
victims, with no fault of their own. These feelings
are also true for any of the families who have lost
loved ones to this random madness in any of a dozen
cities around the world. Whether it's Dunblane,
Scotland, or here in the US in Oregon, these incidents
are horrific and personally affecting.
Having said that, my sadness at this tragedy is being
rapidly replaced by a pure and blinding anger. I am
troubled by the rush to judgment that the media seems
to be making. In particular, I'd like to address what
I consider to be one of the most sensationalistic,
irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever seen.
This is a call to the creative community, a call to an
ideological war which is already being waged. We have
suffered attacks on our free expression before, but
the climate is shifting now. When other media rolls
over and joins the assault, when the U.S. Supreme
Court allows the lawsuit against TimeWarner and Oliver
Stone to progress, when a show like 60 MINUTES makes
the kinds of inflammatory statements they did tonight
-- well, it's time to take a hard look at what's going
on and say the unpopular things that need to be said.
It may not be easy, and the truth might seem cruel,
but we cannot simply allow these attacks to go
unanswered.
"Is it too far-fetched to believe that a preoccupation
with video games that deal in violence and movies that
portray violence can turn a kid into a killer?" With
this question, Mike Wallace began his introduction to
tonight's lead story on what is considered by most to
be the leader in integrity in TV journalism, CBS's 60
MINUTES. He continued by saying that they had
interviewed 3 parents of kids killed in a previous
school shooting, parents who had joined to file a
lawsuit against the producers of the film THE
BASKETBALL DIARIES, the makers of the game DOOM, and
other entertainment companies. Wallace promised to
bring on spokespeople for the game and movie
industries, the lawyers for the parents, and a man who
was hired by those parents as an expert witness in
their court case.
The story began with that man, Lt. Col. David Grossman
(ret.), who was singled out in a radio address by
President Clinton this weekend as "someone we would
all do well to listen to." Grossman is a former
professor of psychology at West Point who now teaches
seminars on the psychology of killing to Green Berets
and the FBI. When Grossman was introduced in the
segment, he immediately began talking about video
games, which he has labeled "murder simulators." I've
heard Grossman's theories before, and he makes some
very persuasive arguments. Basically, what he says
boils down to the idea that we are giving our children
the same kind of immersive conditional training that
is used to turn military recruits into killers.
Grossman claims it's a two-step process. First, these
games teach you to associate pleasure with death and
killing. Second, they teach you the motor skills
necessary to commit extraordinary acts of precision
and marksmanship.
To back up his point, 60 MINUTES cut to footage of
U.S. soldiers being trained on DOOM, using the game to
"hone their shooting skills." Of course, combat isn't
fought with a mouse, so I think the connection to this
particular clip was tenuous at best, but I'm not
saying that Grossman's entirely without a point.
When we fought WWI, military commanders noticed that
soliders had trouble with direct face-to-face combat.
So many soldiers found themselves unable to fire at
another human being that our troops were being killed
at a phenomenal rate. Years of research led to the
entire endoctrination method we've all seen portrayed
in films like FULL METAL JACKET and OFFICER AND A
GENTLEMAN. It's an idea that works exceptionally
well. The ego is broken down fully by humiliation,
and the individual is devalued completely. That
individual is rebuilt then, his ego and sense of worth
tied to his performance as a soldier. That's when the
training kicks in, and accomplishment is rewarded.
Grossman's theory leaves out the first step of that
process, though. He doesn't account for what is
breaking down the self-worth of these troubled kids.
He forgets that the individual must be humiliated
first, devalued... broken. These children are broken
when they finally reach for a gun, looking for a
solution. They are in pain, and they aren't equipped
to handle what they're dealing with. In so many
homes, parents see their children in trouble and they
intercede. They take an active, participatory role in
the pain that their child is going through, and
hopefully they've already instilled the values in
their kids that allows them to open a dialogue, to
offer help. So many kids go through these same
isolating experiences in the high school years and
earlier, and they get the help they need. In some
cases, though, these kids aren't getting that help
anywhere. Parents, teachers, peers -- no one is
helping them, and they find themselves stripped of
what they view as viable options.
Ed Bradley goaded Grossman a bit, saying to him,
"They're just games," and Grossman took the bait,
firing back with a real sense of righteous
indignation.
"They're more than games," he said. "It's a mechanism
which equips a child to turn his fantasy into
reality." He then brought up the case of Michael
Carneal, the shooter in the Heath High School
shootings in Paducah, Kentucky. He was a 14 year old
freshman when he walked into his school and opened
fire on a prayer meeting, killing three girls --
Nicole Hadley, 14, Kayce Steger, 15, and Jessica
James, 17, and paralyzing Melissa Jenkins, 16. Two
weeks ago, Sabrina Steger, Chuck and Jo Hadley, and
Joe and Judy James -- the parents of the deceased
girls -- filed a joint suit against 18 different video
game companies, including the makers of DOOM.
Grossman is the expert witness they've hired to help
them make their case. Again, he is a persuasive, if
misguided, speaker. He cited the fact that Michael
Carneal fired his .22 pistol eight times, landing all
eight shots, each one on a different kid. Five of
those were head shots, and the other three were in the
upper torso. That's a startling exhibit of skill for
a kid who reportedly had never picked up a real gun.
The FBI claims that the average officer in the average
engagment only lands one shot out of every five.
Then the parents of the girls spoke, and it was
wrenching to listen to them. Their lives were
destroyed by this boy, and they justifiably want
answers. They're looking for something that can
establish some sense of order in the universe again
after the horror they've gone through. They're
looking to blame, and that's completely
understandable. When they talked about the
desensitization that teens go through when exposed to
violent imagery, their pain was palpable. Bradley
seemed to be hands-off with the parents, afraid to
offend. He asked one softball question about what
role divorce, the dissolution of the family, peer
pressure, abuse, and other issues play as contributing
factors in these incidents, but the parents quickly
turned the conversation back to games. One of them
called the games "the straw that broke the camel's
back."
Then Sabrina Steger, one of the parents, came on and
made a point that I'm going to come back to later, one
of the few lucid, coherent things said in the segment.
She said that this is really all about
responsibility, and that no one should have to dictate
that to companies. If they choose to make games like
these, that should be their right, as long as they're
responsible for the images and ideas they distribute.
Bradley didn't pursue that line of questioning,
though. Instead, the segment cut to Doug Mullenstein,
a representative for the video game industry. He
spoke with real eloquence about what a disservice this
kind of discussion does to the national debate. He
spoke about how narrow sighted it is to attack one
factor and try to hang everything on it. Unlike many
hired mouthpieces, Mullenstein seemed to be genuinely
frustrated about this, and it seemed to be important
to him to frame this discussion properly. He brought
up the industry's voluntary ratings system, which he
says is very descriptive and detailed, offering
parents a valuable tool to help decide what software
is appropriate.
Bradley and Grossman mocked this idea in the cutaway,
as they walked through an arcade to look at the
warning stickers posted on games like HOUSE OF THE
DEAD. I think the stickers are very simple and
well-written, detailing that there is lifelike
simulated violence in the game. Grossman sputtered in
what struck me as feigned outrage as he pointed out
that any 5 or 6 year old can play the games without
permission. Of course, he didn't explain what a 5 or
6 year old might be doing in an arcade without a
parent, but maybe he's got different ideas about
parental duties than I do.
When the segment cut back to Mullenstein, Bradley
grilled him about the games, bringing up their use in
military training to prove their danger. In response,
Mullenstein brought up another word I'm going to
return to later -- context. "Being trained to be a
Marine is different than playing a game with your
friends in the living room. Context does matter." 60
MINUTES proved Mullenstein's point by accident when
they cut back to the Paducah parents, who are also
suing the producers of THE BASKETBALL DIARIES.
As Bradley (erroneously) described the plot of THE
BASKETBALL DIARIES, CBS showed that same clip which so
many news sources have taken out of context in the
last week, the footage of Leonardo Di Caprio on a
rampage in his school, dressed in a long black
trenchcoat, shooting students and teachers alike.
Shame on CBS. Shame on each and every news source
that has shown this clip this week. You are truly
without any justification for your behavior, and if
you have any inkling of conscience, you must not be
sleeping well. Within the film, these images are part
of a dream sequence, the fantasies of a troubled youth
who is grappling with a drug addiction. He's at odds
with his mother, unable to connect to anyone who might
help him, and his persecution feelings are getting the
best of him. There's no doubt whatsover in the film
that Leo's fantasy is wrong, a cry for help. He can't
fix himself, so he's looking to lash out. He doesn't,
though. He makes the choice not to. Jim Carroll, the
real person who is being portrayed in the film, isn't
serving time in a prison for mass murder right now.
He's an acclaimed poet and novelist who took those
typical adolescent feelings of not belonging, of
wanting to destroy himself and others, and he
channelled them into art, into something creative, not
destructive. In the context of the movie, that
fantasy makes perfect sense. Outside the context of
the movie, it's exploitative, cheap, and ugly, and
that's how CBS used it. That's how you've all used
it. I am disgusted by your actions. Bryan Goluboff,
the author of the film, is a friend of mine. We both
contributed plays to a couple of festivals in the
early '90s, and I got a chance to see a fair sampling
of Bryan's work and talk to him quite a bit,
especially around the time the film was released.
Bryan is attracted to the dark side of life. All of
his work takes us to unpleasant, violent, and
frightening places. The thing that redeems his work
is that Bryan looks for the small bit of light that
can be found even in those jet black moments, and he
shows how that light can survive and even occasionally
triumph. His work is about hope, but your use of that
clip has cheapened it, tainted his name, made a
disgrace of what he and the other filmmakers involved
intended.
Bradley then proceeded to make things even worse,
pushing the parents, asking them why they were holding
the makers of the film responsible. One of the
fathers answered, "They helped support what he wanted
to do and led him down the path that violence is good,
violence is great, and you'll be a hero if you're
violent." I am not making light of this man's
personal pain when I ask if he's watched the film he's
discussing. If he's seen anything beyond that five
minutes, then he'd know that the film places enormous
value on the the healing power of a parent's
unconditional love. That's hardly a message of hatred
or murder. I can understand why he got it wrong,
though. I have no doubt he was coached by the venal,
irresponsible, ambulance chasers that Bradley
introduced as the lawyers to the families.
Michael Green and Jack Thompson were introduced
together, and Thompson launched right in, explaining
their claim that the filmmakers were reckless. "Part
of their recklessness is the depiction of the violence
in that scene as something beautiful, almost
approaching ballet. The slow-motion aspect of it
makes it all the more mesmerizing. It stars Leonardo
Di Caprio, who is now the number one teen idol in the
world, appealing by his persona and his ability as an
actor to adolescents who would seek to, as any role
model would be, to be copied and emulated." That's a
direct quote, folks. Can you make any sense out of
it? Is he really saying that slow-motion made the
kids in Colorado or Kentucky pick up a gun? Is he
claiming they did it because Leo did? That's absurd.
Leonardo also starred in TOTAL ECLIPSE, in which he
enjoys rough gay sex with David Thewliss. I haven't
seen a rise in rough trade encounters between high
school students and ugly older Englishmen, so I think
that undermines their argument a bit. Still,
Thompson's comment pales in comparison to what his
partner said.
Bradley asks, "Are you saying they knew this movie
would cause harm?"
Without even a hint of irony, Green looked in the
camera and said, "They know that these movies are
going to cause harm. They do focus groups to
calibrate these movies to get the maximum response and
effect out of the audience. They want to do this
because they know that sex and violence are what
sells, and they also know that there are people out
there who are going to act out on what they see in
these movies." If that comment isn't legally
actionable by the producers of the film, then we have
truly lost our way in this country. That is an
accusation with no foundation in fact, an
opportunistic statement made by a shameless huckster
who is profiting off the pain of the innocent.
There's not one sentence of what he said that he could
prove in any court on Earth, and I defy him to prove
differently. His statement is part of the problem
with any dialogue on this subject. With inflammatory
lies like his being tossed into the discussion, the
truth becomes obscured, and healing is impossible. He
is chasing a payday, and he will say anything he feels
is required to get his hands on money. The scary
thing is, his thug tactics might just work. This case
is so high-profile, and emotions around it are so
volatile, that it appears MGM is already rolling over
and trying to offer resolution. They ordered a recall
of the film, even offering to buy back rental copies.
I would appeal to MGM right now to stop what they're
doing and stand tough. If you back down -- if you
lend any credence to the wildly insane rantings of
these filthy moneygrubbing legal vultures, you cheapen
the memories of those poor girls who died, you rob the
parents of those girls of real, informed closure, and
you undermine the freedoms of every other production
entity in this town. Don't do it.
Robert Venderette (his name wasn't shown, only said,
so I apologize for any misspelling) was brought on
next. He was introduced as a lawyer for the film
industry, but no specifics were mentioned. He
predictably tried to turn the whole issue back to free
speech. When Ed Bradley brought up desensitization,
Venderette agreed to an extent. He said our whole
culture has been desensitized by news coverage of
Vietnam, and by the modern parade of violence we call
news. He brought up the nightly footage from Kosovo.
He blamed the whole culture for making violence more
widespread, more accepted. This kind of dodging the
issue makes it look like all the film industry can do
is point the finger elsewhere, when that's not the
answer. He didn't tackle the issue head-on.
Before he could offer any other answers or arguments,
the segment cut back to the two lawyers for the
families. Bradley asked them what they had to say to
charges that their lawsuit was frivolous, and a cheap
shot against defendents with very deep pockets. Green
gave a smarmy smile and said, "Hold on to your hat,"
and his partner added an equally slimy, "And your
wallet." I think those comments are very telling...
in any context.
They're also chilling when you consider that the U.S.
Supreme Court decided two months ago to allow a
lawsuit to move forward against TimeWarner and Oliver
Stone. Filed by Betsy Ann Byers in Louisiana, the
suit claims that NATURAL BORN KILLERS was responsible
for making two teens go on a killing spree in 1995.
Then, just to make sure you'd been innundated with
enough violence for the evening, 60 MINUTES showed the
end of the opening diner scene from NBK. Again, there
was no attempt to set up what the scene was about, or
what the film as a whole was about. Instead, they
just show Mickey's POV during the "eenie, meenie,
miney, mo" part of the scene. Lovely. Enlightening.
Pointless.
Bradley cited claims that NBK has inspired over a
dozen copycat killings. He pointed out that Sarah
Edmonson, one of the teens arrested in Louisiana,
discussed the movie at some length in her confession.
He then asks Venderette about Edmonson's claim.
Venderette responded, "People react aberrantly to all
kinds of things -- the Bible, the Koran, a Beatles
song. It's amazing what people will do violence in
the name of." He went on to mention Mark David
Chapman's claim that CATCHER IN THE RYE was his major
influence. As much as Bradley tried to lead this part
of the conversation, Venderette kept bringing it back
to the 5 million people who have seen NBK who have not
gone out and imitated the film.
Finally, the segment ended with Bradley talking to the
parents again. He asked them what they really hoped
to accomplish with the lawsuit, and Sabrina Steger got
in the last word, saying winning isn't really
important. The parents of the girls consider it a
victory that they've created this discussion. She
pointed out that ten years ago, no one was winning
lawsuits against tobacco companies, but they're
winning them routinely now. She says their suit just
paves the way, and that more will follow.
Are you scared yet, Hollywood? You should be. If we
continue to progress in our relationship with the
audience the way we're going now, we are going to find
ourselves handcuffed by people looking to protect the
public. The easy thing to do here is point the finger
back at the parents and say that it's their job to
police everything their kids hear and read and see and
play, but that's just as naive as the view that only
games and movies are responsible.
Instead of discussing guilt and blame, why don't we
shift the discourse by removing those words from the
conversation? No one wants to take the blame. No one
wants to be guilty. Why don't we just discuss the
concept of responsibility instead?
For example, if I am a filmmaker who is making a film
that contains violent images, then I am responsible
for that film once I send it out into the world. If I
make the film, then I should be willing to defend it,
to stand behind it. If I think there's something in
it that's going to be trouble, then I should weigh the
merits of having it in the film. If I think it's
integral to the artistic integrity of the piece, then
I should leave it in and be prepared to answer any
charges against it or questions about it. If it's not
important... if it's just for kicks or to add
fireworks... then maybe I need to consider the worth
of such imagery. If we trust these filmmakers with
these massive budgets, then we have to trust them with
the ideas they're bringing to the screen as well. As
a studio, if you greenlight a project and it makes it
to the screen the same way it was written, then you
can't later disown the film, claiming you didn't
realize what it was about. That's your job.
And parents... the ultimate responsibility is yours.
Let me tell you a little something about my parents.
I was what you would call a problem kid. I mean, I
grew up to be an Evil Genius, so what else would you
expect? I did things that just plain mystified them,
broke rules they never thought to establish. Through
it all, though, my parents worked hard to establish
values in me... not dogmatic religious values
(although they are churchgoing, Godfearing people),
and not cure-all moralistic values, either. They
worked to instill in me a respect for myself and a
respect for others. More than any other rule, they
taught me to treat others as I expect to be treated.
They taught me to be responsible for myself. When I
screwed up (which was frequently), I had to face those
mistakes and do something about them. Today, I think
back on the lessons I was taught and I treasure my
parents. I was taught all about gun safety by my
father, and I was taught to use a gun very
effectively. I was taught about the vaule of life and
I was taught to search for solutions other than
violence whenever faced with a problem. My parents
were involved in my life, even when I didn't want them
to be. If I'd tried to build 30 pipe bombs in my
house, they would have known. Hell, I couldn't even
hide my porn properly. When you have a child, you are
responsible for turning that rough draft of a human
being into an adult, a citizen who can be responsible
to whatever community he becomes part of. If that
means you have to be aware of their favorite films and
games and TV shows and comic books, then be aware.
Learn about these things. Use them to bond with your
child. Discuss the ideas that these forms of
entertainment set forth. Don't just blindly ban
things because you hear someone say it's "bad."
Investigate. Figure it out for yourself. You know
what your child is equipped to handle. I was reading
John Irving and Stephen King by the age of nine
because my parents, having discussed my reading with
me, knew that I comprehended what I was reading. They
knew that I was taking it in and then filtering it,
processing it, and not just blindly following
anything.
I had a defining experience that has direct bearing on
this entire article when I was in high school. At
that time, I went to a fairly progressive Florida
school with a TV studio built in. The studio
broadcast to the entire school via closed circuit, and
my writing partner and I were responsible for a daily
morning show during homeroom. We did this every day
for two years. One half of the show (10 minutes) was
announcements for the school, and the other half was
whatever feature we felt like. We experimented with a
lot of things over those two years, and we did some
really good work. One of our regular features was
(surprise) a movie review that was part slapstick
comedy, part review show. We featured cartoonish
violence on a massive scale. During our second year
doing the show, there was a rash of suicides in our
school and a shooting. As a result, the
administration of the school went nuts, looking for
someone to place the blame on. If you've been reading
carefully, you can guess how this turned out.
One morning, my partner and I were called into the
guidance office, where there were deans, the
principal, and several counsellors all seated. They
told us that the suicides were our fault. They looked
two 18 year old kids in the eye and told them that
they were responsible for the deaths of their peers.
They wanted so badly to make sense of this that they
lashed out and attacked us. None of our reviews had
anything to do with shootings, but that didn't matter.
We were scapegoats. We fought for six weeks to go
back on the air, but in the end, they took away my
voice, ruining the end of my last year on the air.
Nothing changed. None of the kids who were feeling
disenfranchised in the school felt any better.
Nothing was solved. But we were off the air, and they
felt better for having done something, for having
assigned some blame.
I swore then that I would always be responsible for
everything I say, write, produce, direct, or in any
way put in front of the public. It makes me furious
when I see people look for the easy answer, but more
than that, it makes me sad. We have a problem that we
refuse to address in this country. Extremists like
Grossman and alarmists like the lawyers who hired him
are adding nothing but hate and fear to an already
difficult debate. We need to take some time to
recover from the shock of what has happened in
Littleton. We need to finish examining the lives of
the two shooters and their friends. We need to try to
start some sort of healing in that community. And
then we need to really begin to discuss these ideas as
adults, without the spectre of nonsense lawsuits
hanging over anyone. Only when we all accept our
responsibilities as adults and citizens will we be
able to effectively tackle the problems that have
gripped our teens. Until then, all this arguing is
only going to lead to more hate, more violence, and no
solutions.
Peace to all those in pain tonight.
"Moriarty" out.
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Reader Talkback
better buy stock in Kevlar my
friends by Elan Vitale | Apr 26th, 1999 04:21:52 AM | State of the Country by Scar | Apr 26th, 1999 04:25:12 AM | Thank you, Moriarity ... by Lennier | Apr 26th, 1999 04:33:11 AM | Don't Blame Movies by Aggie_Ed | Apr 26th, 1999 04:33:35 AM | Small error by Dutch Beast | Apr 26th, 1999 04:36:07 AM | The worst influence... by Prankster | Apr 26th, 1999 05:08:10 AM | Congrats by Phazer | Apr 26th, 1999 05:15:23 AM | blame by Foster Zygote | Apr 26th, 1999 05:21:38 AM | You Ask The Impossible,
Moriarty by mrbeaks | Apr 26th, 1999 05:27:10 AM | by sputnik | Apr 26th, 1999 05:31:12 AM | In the aftermath of a tragedy by Macbeth998 | Apr 26th, 1999 05:39:52 AM | Public Relations by Dhigger | Apr 26th, 1999 05:44:41 AM | The Importance of Posting Here by Harry Knowles | Apr 26th, 1999 05:47:28 AM | But what now? by Tides | Apr 26th, 1999 05:47:29 AM | Censorship and Violence by Jack Burton | Apr 26th, 1999 05:54:57 AM | MGM is no exception friends by Elan Vitale | Apr 26th, 1999 05:57:24 AM | Troublesome by Elan Vitale | Apr 26th, 1999 06:08:33 AM | Blame by Welsh | Apr 26th, 1999 06:24:33 AM | Kids & Parents Today by MovieImp | Apr 26th, 1999 06:26:41 AM | Don't you know the REAL
reason? by Pope Buck 1 | Apr 26th, 1999 06:29:05 AM | Of tragedies and scapegoats by Zcarstheme | Apr 26th, 1999 06:33:47 AM | Bravo to Moriarty by dtsipras | Apr 26th, 1999 06:48:28 AM | Interesting... by Lancelot | Apr 26th, 1999 06:50:13 AM | movies and games and music, oh
my! by Leviat | Apr 26th, 1999 06:50:32 AM | DWD: Bad Situations by DwDunphy | Apr 26th, 1999 06:54:31 AM | ... by =weezer= | Apr 26th, 1999 06:59:59 AM | Car Games by Dice Man | Apr 26th, 1999 07:04:49 AM | Violence in Entertainment by The Graduate | Apr 26th, 1999 07:05:39 AM | Film Violence by W. Leach | Apr 26th, 1999 07:09:56 AM | Responsibility by TVGuy | Apr 26th, 1999 07:17:06 AM | Tragedy by The Graduate | Apr 26th, 1999 07:21:06 AM | Heston by W. Leach | Apr 26th, 1999 07:22:43 AM | ultimate responsiblity by SamIAm | Apr 26th, 1999 07:28:16 AM | Frank Zappa said it best.... by Bundren | Apr 26th, 1999 07:28:53 AM | The case against Oliver Stone by schooob | Apr 26th, 1999 07:29:52 AM | Guns and Youth by starbird | Apr 26th, 1999 07:32:02 AM | Australia&America by The Consul | Apr 26th, 1999 07:33:08 AM | Parental Responsibility by Librarygal | Apr 26th, 1999 07:33:12 AM | Assigning Blame by Azure Tyger | Apr 26th, 1999 07:35:37 AM | Why not just... by Guido | Apr 26th, 1999 07:37:37 AM | Have We All Lost Our Minds? by Fixxxer | Apr 26th, 1999 07:43:44 AM | Another bizarre thing..... by Bundren | Apr 26th, 1999 07:57:31 AM | no reason by usagi | Apr 26th, 1999 08:00:21 AM | Another thought. . . by Dolby1000 | Apr 26th, 1999 08:00:55 AM | Reminded of an old Kubrick
tale (rest in peace Stan) by Elan Vitale | Apr 26th, 1999 08:01:41 AM | The "influence" of Marilyn
Manson and others by Bundren | Apr 26th, 1999 08:02:25 AM | Film Violence by smilin'jackruby | Apr 26th, 1999 08:06:34 AM | Re ALIENATION by Charlie Oakley | Apr 26th, 1999 08:10:26 AM | Re ALIENATION by Charlie Oakley | Apr 26th, 1999 08:10:29 AM | Funny... by bruce le | Apr 26th, 1999 08:12:17 AM | One more thing.... by Bundren | Apr 26th, 1999 08:12:56 AM | My Own Studies by Lizzybeth | Apr 26th, 1999 08:14:40 AM | Leo and Mourning by The Consul | Apr 26th, 1999 08:19:35 AM | the scenery is slowly changing by reni | Apr 26th, 1999 08:24:54 AM | kudos moriarty by k.- | Apr 26th, 1999 08:27:15 AM | careful by Stauff42 | Apr 26th, 1999 08:33:38 AM | 60 Morons by Mister Miracle | Apr 26th, 1999 08:36:09 AM | Has nobody touched on by Bit | Apr 26th, 1999 08:36:57 AM | Commercials, Sesame Street,
and Violence by ChrisP | Apr 26th, 1999 08:40:28 AM | If watching violent films will
help me become a more violent
per by Bundren | Apr 26th, 1999 08:56:53 AM | Playing the Blame Game by BadAshe | Apr 26th, 1999 08:58:19 AM | Nobody has blamed... by mjbok | Apr 26th, 1999 08:58:49 AM | BLAME WHO???? by chunkyd | Apr 26th, 1999 09:00:41 AM | Moriarty's Editorial on
Violence in Films by Chiron | Apr 26th, 1999 09:05:38 AM | How about talking about
solutions? by Icebird | Apr 26th, 1999 09:07:13 AM | Pleeeeaaasssseeee.... by letseatcheese | Apr 26th, 1999 09:07:51 AM | Communication by Mexicomay | Apr 26th, 1999 09:12:09 AM | Harry, one of those killed was
one of us by aceves | Apr 26th, 1999 09:18:06 AM | Hell, why not go all the way? by Kamikaze | Apr 26th, 1999 09:19:06 AM | 60 Minutes by CornyCollins | Apr 26th, 1999 09:27:59 AM | The usual suspects... by Hiro Protagonist | Apr 26th, 1999 09:28:23 AM | Tragedy? by Lemur Master | Apr 26th, 1999 09:34:35 AM | In my experience..... by plasticmonster | Apr 26th, 1999 09:42:50 AM | The Overall Problem by NJFILM20 | Apr 26th, 1999 09:53:12 AM | What are the differences
between now and 50 years ago? by gunny | Apr 26th, 1999 09:54:10 AM | One Word Says It All by precode | Apr 26th, 1999 09:55:28 AM | A more appropriately ambiguous
viewpoint by Milketoast | Apr 26th, 1999 09:59:35 AM | an opinion by GodBear | Apr 26th, 1999 10:05:31 AM | What is wrong with Catcher in
the Rye ?? by darius25 | Apr 26th, 1999 10:09:48 AM | us vs. japan by xerxes | Apr 26th, 1999 10:14:05 AM | Hell Yeah! by Anton_Sirius | Apr 26th, 1999 10:15:07 AM | gunnin' by sjmaatta | Apr 26th, 1999 10:19:35 AM | Blame spirals by tdibble | Apr 26th, 1999 10:22:29 AM | DOOM and the marines by Kurgan | Apr 26th, 1999 10:27:26 AM | Huh... by Guld Korn | Apr 26th, 1999 10:28:43 AM | Your survey is skewed by Zaphod | Apr 26th, 1999 10:33:51 AM | In my experience..... by plasticmonster | Apr 26th, 1999 10:34:48 AM | World War One by MrNiceGuy | Apr 26th, 1999 10:38:06 AM | Last night, 60 minutes was the
most biased irresponsible
trash I by jvoorhees | Apr 26th, 1999 10:44:07 AM | what part of 'pure hell' DON'T
you understand? by chuckles | Apr 26th, 1999 10:45:41 AM | And Now a Word from the
Right... by Everett Robert | Apr 26th, 1999 10:48:11 AM | And Now a Word from the
Right... by Everett Robert | Apr 26th, 1999 10:48:24 AM | a choice was made by HMcD | Apr 26th, 1999 10:50:23 AM | The Blame Game by Equestrienne | Apr 26th, 1999 10:52:11 AM | Yes, something more... by Guld Korn | Apr 26th, 1999 10:52:24 AM | TO STARBIRD by plasticmonster | Apr 26th, 1999 10:53:00 AM | sorry by Everett Robert | Apr 26th, 1999 11:00:11 AM | Thoughtful Comments by Thea | Apr 26th, 1999 11:03:29 AM | I know this is long, but
PLEASE read.. by Black Angus | Apr 26th, 1999 11:04:24 AM | chuckles, thank you! by k.- | Apr 26th, 1999 11:41:39 AM | guns and US by Apple-Jack | Apr 26th, 1999 11:45:42 AM | Hope... by Robroy | Apr 26th, 1999 11:48:12 AM | Scared to death by serendip | Apr 26th, 1999 11:54:36 AM | Some small measure of faith
restored by Zcarstheme | Apr 26th, 1999 11:59:26 AM | responsibilty by Marshal Kane | Apr 26th, 1999 12:11:51 PM | Media and Violence by Guineapig | Apr 26th, 1999 12:15:34 PM | Movies and gun control... by darken | Apr 26th, 1999 12:16:28 PM | Solutions by L'Auteur | Apr 26th, 1999 12:20:57 PM | The Survey on the Main Page by DeeJay | Apr 26th, 1999 12:24:05 PM | A Point Of View by John Shaft | Apr 26th, 1999 12:26:03 PM | Don't forget that they were
Neo-Nazis by Rusty Airwalk | Apr 26th, 1999 12:26:07 PM | One looonnngg TalkBack... by PDaddy | Apr 26th, 1999 12:27:23 PM | Thank You, Moriarty by Niks977 | Apr 26th, 1999 12:28:56 PM | Parents, Guns, Movies by Julilla | Apr 26th, 1999 12:29:01 PM | 60 minutes by Powerslave | Apr 26th, 1999 12:29:18 PM | Charlton Heston by John Shaft | Apr 26th, 1999 12:31:55 PM | The Catcher in the Rye
"controversy" by Bundren | Apr 26th, 1999 12:45:07 PM | Responsibility by gunny | Apr 26th, 1999 12:47:54 PM | Beauracracy breeds the blame
storm by rambo | Apr 26th, 1999 12:54:03 PM | Canadian perspective... by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 12:54:38 PM | Re:Julilla by jvoorhees | Apr 26th, 1999 01:01:03 PM | Waco by Schlock | Apr 26th, 1999 01:16:36 PM | On our way to a stupid new
world by BraveNewSquirrel | Apr 26th, 1999 01:18:20 PM | Several thoughts by Brenna | Apr 26th, 1999 01:23:09 PM | It's the parent's
responsibility by angry | Apr 26th, 1999 01:38:41 PM | Trouble in Paradise....? by TomTomb | Apr 26th, 1999 02:01:44 PM | Ban the Bible!!! by primemover | Apr 26th, 1999 02:09:48 PM | R rated movies... by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 02:16:41 PM | come together folks by GodBear | Apr 26th, 1999 02:20:48 PM | Shared anxiety by Foster Zygote | Apr 26th, 1999 02:31:10 PM | teachers vs. parents by chuckles | Apr 26th, 1999 02:33:27 PM | Shared anxiety by Foster Zygote | Apr 26th, 1999 02:35:27 PM | A question for those seeking
to ban guns by mrkrypto | Apr 26th, 1999 02:54:53 PM | Most 1999 Summer films are
PG13; DETOX is another matter by ABking | Apr 26th, 1999 03:25:58 PM | parents's responsibility by Palhaco | Apr 26th, 1999 03:40:55 PM | thanks, moriarty and harry by tommy five-tone | Apr 26th, 1999 03:42:06 PM | 20/20 by Damitol | Apr 26th, 1999 03:45:48 PM | Guns make us safe? by Foster Zygote | Apr 26th, 1999 03:49:29 PM | Answer for Mrkrypto by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 03:57:00 PM | Gun banners take easy way out.
(cowards) by vultureman | Apr 26th, 1999 03:59:00 PM | We could ban John Woo, KMFDM,
guns, propane, plumbing
supplies, by Oberon | Apr 26th, 1999 03:59:01 PM | Cultural differences / Magic
Bullet by Rozehead | Apr 26th, 1999 03:59:27 PM | Afterword by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 04:07:28 PM | The irony of holding NBK
responsible by JSchmit | Apr 26th, 1999 04:16:00 PM | The irony of holding NBK
responsible by JSchmit | Apr 26th, 1999 04:16:20 PM | NBK was never meant to
"incite" violence! by knute123 | Apr 26th, 1999 04:21:54 PM | moriarty's responsibility by Palhaco | Apr 26th, 1999 04:26:08 PM | Stop the madness! Ban the
propane accessories!! by Oberon | Apr 26th, 1999 04:34:37 PM | To vultureman by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 04:41:05 PM | the sicko gun culture; sorry,
Charleton by drasaid | Apr 26th, 1999 04:43:04 PM | Oberon you twerp by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 04:49:12 PM | To Drasaid by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 04:59:54 PM | thebrew by klickink | Apr 26th, 1999 05:10:11 PM | Dunblane and blaming the wrong
movies by MGP | Apr 26th, 1999 05:10:45 PM | Relevance? by MrNiceGuy | Apr 26th, 1999 05:11:15 PM | Anyone realize...? by TinMan1176 | Apr 26th, 1999 05:27:28 PM | admitting responsibility by Meatball | Apr 26th, 1999 05:32:18 PM | The problem is the government! by Funmazer | Apr 26th, 1999 05:40:10 PM | RE: GUIDO by Lex Blank | Apr 26th, 1999 05:47:15 PM | Breaking People by LastAvatar | Apr 26th, 1999 05:54:25 PM | Not just ONE movie by LBMAYER | Apr 26th, 1999 06:08:40 PM | To that feel-good hoplophobe
Dolfanar by vultureman | Apr 26th, 1999 06:31:31 PM | Does this surprise you..... by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 06:45:12 PM | At least they can't blame
drugs...!!!! by ChodaRagu | Apr 26th, 1999 06:50:05 PM | HELP! HELP! Come see the
violence inherent in the
system! by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 06:55:59 PM | Impressive by lame | Apr 26th, 1999 06:57:45 PM | Impressive by lame | Apr 26th, 1999 06:57:55 PM | Lack of respect for each other
and authority. by Uncapie | Apr 26th, 1999 07:05:16 PM | Posting the E-mail I sent
Harry... by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 07:17:01 PM | People make fun of you and the
way you are deal with it... by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 07:17:30 PM | ONE LAST THING- 'BASKETBALL
DIARIES' WAS A BOOK FIRST! by Uncapie | Apr 26th, 1999 07:24:21 PM | Everything Inspires by 60091 | Apr 26th, 1999 07:28:49 PM | A slightly different
perspective by Jeff Harris | Apr 26th, 1999 07:29:54 PM | Hollywood is hypocritical.. by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 07:30:39 PM | Gun control is not the answer by gunny | Apr 26th, 1999 07:42:13 PM | Uh, Oberon by Foster Zygote | Apr 26th, 1999 07:46:55 PM | Guns and violence by awill | Apr 26th, 1999 07:49:58 PM | Gun Control HA!!! by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 07:52:46 PM | firearm freaks by 60091 | Apr 26th, 1999 07:53:36 PM | Gun Control HA!!! by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 07:55:57 PM | by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 07:58:08 PM | news media by hammer66 | Apr 26th, 1999 08:04:41 PM | Warning: LONG. I have not
read any previous statements,
this is by Mandana | Apr 26th, 1999 08:10:04 PM | NRA members by 60091 | Apr 26th, 1999 08:17:27 PM | The pathetic, the sick, and
the proud. by haywire | Apr 26th, 1999 08:21:22 PM | Banning Guns Just another
scape goat by AjaxSerix | Apr 26th, 1999 08:39:14 PM | To 20th Century Fox- Quite
simply the most innane post
I've ever by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 08:47:49 PM | To 20th Century Fox by TomTomb | Apr 26th, 1999 08:49:41 PM | For shame by nether | Apr 26th, 1999 08:50:40 PM | Schools shouldn't even stop at
prohibiting goth wear... by mcarbone | Apr 26th, 1999 08:57:50 PM | They had it coming. by ArgoStud55 | Apr 26th, 1999 09:09:58 PM | If film has no effect on me,
then why is so much spent on
Advert by LugnutGuy | Apr 26th, 1999 09:13:34 PM | In days gone by... by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 09:29:14 PM | shooting by abersteve | Apr 26th, 1999 09:53:22 PM | The good guys by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 09:53:25 PM | To abersteve by Dolfanar | Apr 26th, 1999 10:00:52 PM | 20th Century Fox responds to
Dolfanar and Vlassss by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 10:10:11 PM | Of Guns and Violence by admiral | Apr 26th, 1999 10:10:36 PM | Admiral youre just wrong.... by 20th Century Fox | Apr 26th, 1999 10:21:45 PM | Dolfanar the hoplophobe misses
again by vultureman | Apr 26th, 1999 11:33:19 PM | A solution to pontificate
about by me2 | Apr 27th, 1999 01:23:25 AM | Degeneration by Platinum Dragon | Apr 27th, 1999 02:06:41 AM | RE: PARK ROW by The Consul | Apr 27th, 1999 02:15:32 AM | RE: ??? by The Consul | Apr 27th, 1999 02:19:10 AM | Stomp Out Censorship by TOMMY TERROR | Apr 27th, 1999 03:02:51 AM | CARING ADULTS by DAVE LECTER | Apr 27th, 1999 03:29:05 AM | Ban stupidity by Kane | Apr 27th, 1999 04:05:08 AM | UK Matrix developments by Gie Feil Lonn | Apr 27th, 1999 05:10:53 AM | Are you people mental by BadWisdom | Apr 27th, 1999 05:20:18 AM | Looking for Easy Answers by Colleen | Apr 27th, 1999 05:29:00 AM | Violent Tendencys by Bean Bag | Apr 27th, 1999 06:43:19 AM | Violent Tendencys(cont) by Bean Bag | Apr 27th, 1999 06:45:09 AM | I got it... by Guld Korn | Apr 27th, 1999 07:22:07 AM | Seing clearly... by Dolfanar | Apr 27th, 1999 07:40:03 AM | One Question by hilt | Apr 27th, 1999 07:41:40 AM | breaking down by SPE111 | Apr 27th, 1999 07:48:32 AM | Guns = ? by Zaphod | Apr 27th, 1999 07:52:49 AM | The Source Of More Violence
Than ANYTHING Else! by DeathStalker | Apr 27th, 1999 07:55:03 AM | Guns DO NOT "guarentee
freedom", they oppress free
thought. by Dolfanar | Apr 27th, 1999 08:23:17 AM | Guns DO NOT "guarentee
freedom", they oppress free
thought. by Dolfanar | Apr 27th, 1999 08:27:34 AM | UTTERLY BEAUTIFUL, MORIARTY. I
COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER
MYSEL by quentin2 | Apr 27th, 1999 08:56:32 AM | Fuck it, this Talk Back is too
goddamned long..... by quentin2 | Apr 27th, 1999 09:07:20 AM | Gun "education" by Dolfanar | Apr 27th, 1999 09:41:50 AM | blaming people by Marshal Kane | Apr 27th, 1999 09:45:51 AM | Please think about this by Foster Zygote | Apr 27th, 1999 09:51:50 AM | 7 Million Guns by DeeJay | Apr 27th, 1999 10:14:11 AM | Next on Dolfanar's ban list:
steak knives! by Oberon | Apr 27th, 1999 10:57:03 AM | Protecting YOUR children by Dolfanar | Apr 27th, 1999 11:31:06 AM | Dolfanar stop evading the
question by vultureman | Apr 27th, 1999 11:51:33 AM | we should strictly enforce the
Ratings of these movies (PG,
PG-1 by mckracken | Apr 27th, 1999 12:07:42 PM | "Violence is NEVER the
solution?" Tell that to Korean
shopowners by Oberon | Apr 27th, 1999 12:10:33 PM | Who to blame..... by cj | Apr 27th, 1999 12:52:15 PM | on outsiders looking in... by Meatball | Apr 27th, 1999 12:56:19 PM | Scapegoat by Ziggo | Apr 27th, 1999 01:10:55 PM | Brilliant article, but... by Essemtee | Apr 27th, 1999 01:13:09 PM | My bad. by Essemtee | Apr 27th, 1999 01:28:20 PM | media violence by johnnymarvel | Apr 27th, 1999 01:31:25 PM | Basketball diaries by Rokur Gepta | Apr 27th, 1999 02:06:46 PM | war and murder by creamy goodness | Apr 27th, 1999 02:43:52 PM | Dolf makes a point by gunny | Apr 27th, 1999 02:46:53 PM | Bipartisan Attack on Organized
Religion! V-chip for all
Religio by SirenSong | Apr 27th, 1999 02:53:50 PM | A few more words ... by DeathStalker | Apr 27th, 1999 02:58:03 PM | SirenSong - you ROCK!!! by DeathStalker | Apr 27th, 1999 03:03:47 PM | I think the parents chose not
to notice because of "fear". by mckracken | Apr 27th, 1999 03:09:01 PM | in addition by bzlotucha | Apr 27th, 1999 04:04:04 PM | McKracken, are you saying..... by cj | Apr 27th, 1999 04:50:36 PM | Nattering Nabobs by Hans | Apr 27th, 1999 05:08:34 PM | Dolfanar's final words - First
I post an E-mail I sent to
Vultur by Dolfanar | Apr 27th, 1999 05:22:14 PM | Colonial Domination by AjaxSerix | Apr 27th, 1999 05:23:24 PM | Dolf wraps things up... by Dolfanar | Apr 27th, 1999 05:51:17 PM | Blame, United states culture,
and Santayana by Proph JE | Apr 27th, 1999 06:11:04 PM | Censorship by MelCaramel | Apr 27th, 1999 07:03:21 PM | Harry, can we continue this
Talk Back? Can you make
another one? by quentin2 | Apr 27th, 1999 07:27:43 PM | .........a question.......... by quentin2 | Apr 27th, 1999 07:35:02 PM | Lost in the masses by IAM~CastorTroy | Apr 27th, 1999 08:21:48 PM | Colorado tragedy.. by Johnny B. | Apr 27th, 1999 09:16:58 PM | Guns N Mo Guns by Day4Night | Apr 27th, 1999 09:21:34 PM | Some stuff by MrKearns | Apr 27th, 1999 10:06:00 PM | let this talkback section
stand awhile by zooty | Apr 27th, 1999 10:31:09 PM | As for the role of
Christianity - it cost Cassie
Bernall her lif by Oberon | Apr 27th, 1999 10:48:09 PM | The Ultimate Quick Fix by DeeJay | Apr 28th, 1999 12:21:55 AM | slight change of direction... by garumphul | Apr 28th, 1999 01:06:53 AM | Inside Edition by Reed Rothchild | Apr 28th, 1999 02:00:38 AM | a thought off the subject by sjmaatta | Apr 28th, 1999 04:02:43 AM | Buffy The Vampire Slayer by claymoore | Apr 28th, 1999 04:19:11 AM | Religion is the answer by Meridian | Apr 28th, 1999 10:09:03 AM | by METHOS | Apr 29th, 1999 03:11:20 AM | Film and Game Violence = Real
Life Violence? by motu | May 1st, 1999 08:30:10 AM | Fucked up people keep lawyers
in business. by Wolfpack | Jul 22nd, 2006 05:28:32 PM |
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