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Wanna Glimpse An AVATAR Alien??
SPOILER ALERT !!
Merrick here...
Okay...so...if you've been paying extra-special close attention to the Internets over the past few days, you may've noticed an image appearing on (and then disappearing from) several websites.
The image is a piece of art said to depict the "aliens" (depending on your perspective) from James Cameron's forthcoming AVATAR.
Here's the artwork I'm referring to, via britfilms.tv. I believe the image may've have originated at marketsaw.
CLICK TO EMBIGGEN
Hmmm...
I don't hate the concept (what self respecting Geek wouldn't wanna bone a glowing blue/black chick with a smokin' hot body & a long, curvy tail?), but I'm also not floored by the coolness of this design.
I look at the image & see hints of THE ABYSS aliens...a touch of CG Angelina in BEOWULF...whispers of TRON...and a few other inspirations pop to mind. In other words: I see more derivation than inspiration. But, maybe that's just me.
I'm also reminded of some very funny stories about how the company fronting GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA desperately pressured producers to have the series' blue girl lose her tail.
It's important to remember: assuming this is authentic (and there are multiple indications that it is), this is clearly developmental art...and the final product may differ a bit from what we're seeing here. It should be noted that the design seen in this image does match-up with a previously leaked image which also purported to be an AVATAR alien (below)
So...what do you folks think?
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The direction will. The script treatment was shit in terms of story and character, and the aliens aren't all that interesting. What's going to sell this is Cameron's direction, and I don't think there's anything to worry about there.
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And that the truth
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Nov 28, 2007 11:02:00 PM CST
Just rewatched Terminator, great movie, Micheal Biehn where are
by stormwatcher
Seriously, Cameron, throw him a bone.
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Damn you Monkey Butler!
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I've chosen 'Who Cares' and here's why: I don't care!
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F Yeah! Take that 12th!!!
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I imagine the final result will look VERY different. For one thing, it just doesn't look that alien. And she'll probably have more clothes for that PG13 target audience.
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Meh, although that being said I no nothing about this movie.
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Not impressed with this. It might be good in a comic book, but show me something new there Jimmy.
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The Movie. Coming Soon!
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i am not impressed. it's a little too humanoid, i think. Didn't they already do this in a Star Trek: The Next Gen episode, where Geordi sorta turns into an alien that's only visible in ultraviolet light or something? C'mon, Cameron, you're better than this!
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not really from Avatar...trust me I know a guy....really
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Merrick, next thing you'll be posting is that there's gonna be Close Encounters of the Third Kind aliens at the end of Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull, sitting on thrones in the Kingdom, which is really a spaceship.
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...Crap? Stoopid? Looks like it should be in a Vegas show? The shitty scriptment, ugly looking aliens, dodge cast...Why oh why could he have just not made Battle Angel instead?
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Nov 28, 2007 11:18:22 PM CST
Hot Naked Alien Chick: Now With Tail For Prostate Massage!
by tallboy66
Now that's what I call getting some tail!!!
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Aliens are never very alien looking. Except maybe in "Alien." But even then . . . Oh well. Not sure what to expect from this one. On the one hand, Cameron has made some good action movies (a decade or two ago, but still). On the other, when directors get around to making a project that they've been obsessing with for years, the results are often underwhelming.
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Can't wait for this Film!
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To be honest, I don't know what to think about this image. But because it's JAMES CAMERON, I think AVATAR could be the blockbuster to beat come summer 2009. On to the subject of Cameron and Schwarzenegger. Mr. Cameron, if you or your team at Lightstorm Entertainment are reading this, I would like to know if Arnold comes back to films, will Cameron and Schwarzenegger team up to make a few more action extravaganzas for fans of TERMINATOR, T2 and TRUE LIES? Maybe have Arnie play a cyborg in BATTLE ANGEL or make a really bad ass TRUE LIES 2.
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Look at that head! It's tiny!
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It's just a naked chick with different colors and patterns on her. Big deal.
Reminds me of my disappointment with Star Trek aliens. "Look at me - I have a piece of rubber on my forehead! I must be an alien!"
I'd expect that crap from a homemade show with a budget of twelve bucks.
Coming soon: a man will put fake plastic teeth in his mouth, look at the camera, say "hhhhhhhiisssss" and call himself a vampire.
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Schwarzenegger is dunzo. Strictly cameos from here on out. Or should I say from Around the World In 80 Days on out?
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The final version will be way better. Can't wait to see it on the big screen. Iron Jim rules.
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i think this is bogus too. even if it were early art, early art is often way more way-out-there than what ends up on screen, and this is so not out there. it also looks a little like a third-term art center college of design final project in character development. i await the awesomeness that will come. cameron knows if he doesn't deliver that he's dead to everybody; i don't think his ego won't let him turn in something that's lame!
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Nov 28, 2007 11:47:35 PM CST
Cameron could make Harry Tasker legend ala BOND, RAMBO, INDY...
by abking
I think Jim could work fast between AVATAR and BATTLE ANGEL to make a 100 million budget TRUE LIES 2. Old Harry Tasker could look great next to old Indiana Jones, old Rambo and make Bond look like a chump!
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THOSE EEYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
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It makes their hands easier to animate, and it makes it impossible for said characters to flip the bird. ;)
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Okay, I've posted on here a few times - sometimes to preach to the choir and support something I love, sometimes to give some of the contributors a (deserved) hard time...And I've rarely - if ever - posted anything about concept art or design...I actually refuse to get caught up in the fecal tornado that is the 'This Joker sucks/This Joker is awesome...To the maxx!' controversy, but now...Honestly, this bit was spot on about this design being derivative - not just derivative, but just so 'ugh' in all the worst ways. I know, I know - it can all change drastically, either in concept or once it is translated to the screen, but seriously - this is either the worst Magic: The Gathering card ever, or it's an ad for female alien Rogaine. I mean, Why the fuck is she BALDING?!! (Disclaimer: Yes, I did play Magic for a short period of time in my youth, but the heroin helped me eventually quit)
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I have to say, whenever I read anything about this movie, I imagined much cooler aliens.
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Nuff said!!!
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I read it like a decade ago and it was pretty cool. It seemed like "Dances With Wolves" meets "Fantastic Planet". Has it changed much since then? And yes, it sucks that there hasn't been a sequel to True Lies. Could have easily been another franchise character like Bond, Indy, etc.
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I remember that. Good show 'til the midway of the second season.
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I read some of it a decade ago, it was ok. It definetly has changed since then. Cameron and Arnold definetly need to make a couple more TRUE LIES movies with an older play on Tasker. Seeing those INDIANA JONES pics with Ford and Stallone in RAMBO, it makes sense for Arnold to come back with TRUE LIES being his new franchise. Yes, Arnie is older now but Harry Tasker can age unlike a TERMINATOR.
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Looks like the lovechild of the alien from Species and Tron
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I would say why even post it, but we are all hungry for Avatar information so I guess I don't blame you. But it did remind me of the Abyss and of course of CG Angelina because that is fresh in our mind.
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HAVE YOU SEEN THE EYES, IT'S ALL IIN THE EEEEEEEYYYEEEEEEEEeeeeeeesssss.
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We're all freakin dying for more of your input, please keep it comin.
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but of course, we will anyway. Might be cool.
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It had to be said.
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10-11 years? aliens and T2 were awesome, but different era, different time for movies. anyone else kinda worried about him? seriously, if these pics are legit... yikes.
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Come on, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that yet.
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This pic fits the scriptment description 100%. I can't wait to see how these aliens move, and the way the bioluminescence shifts with their emotions/arousal.
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Now, that's what the world wants to see! I'd buy that for a dollar!
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plus that illustration was done by a 3 year old. It looks shit..!
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Cool, seeing as it's James Cameron's masterpiece.
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Joblo.com scooped it days ago. Ya slow bitches!
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Piranah aside, no really. Aliens & Terminator 2 are about family love. Every other one is about man-on-woman love. They may not fully be, you know, "Love in the Time of Cholera" love stories, but they're big elements of his movies (not like, say, the love subplot in Batman Begins which was painfully tacked on, the ones in Cameron's flicks are a big part of the storyline) so, yeah, point I'm trying to make it someone is going to bang that blue furrie chick on screen. Hawt.
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You get my point, anyway.
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very anthropocentric
I just lost a whole lotta interest -
http://i2.tinypic.com/8ge99qs.jpg
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beginning. my...how times have changed.
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Owns you, me, and everyone else on this dirt ball planet. Avatar will be the movie of the year, and spawn a billion imitators.
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.........for Jim'll fix it for you, and you and you and bum-ba-bah.Seriously guys; Jim Cameron, back after over a decade, making a sci-fi action spectacular with revolutionary effects. That is the very definition of, "my dick is so hard for this I might spuff into my latte" coolness.
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but yeah, that image is pretty weak, which leads me to suspect its not legit or its just one of a huge batch of concepts...
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Mystique as a cat ...
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note to other action filmmakers. prior to the opening of Avatar. get out of town, your movie is going to get slaughtered.
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Ultimately comes down to how well this is executed visually, 'Iron Jim' seldom dissappoints, so I'm not too anxious.
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Honestly, how many film-makers have delivered a movie that was as good you'd hoped from the trailers....not many, right? All of Camerons (barring Titanic) have. A little faith people. We've been living in a Cameron free world for too long. Mission impossible 3 and 300 are considered genre clasics these days....
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way too humanoid a design. So these creatures, who have gone through their own evolution god knows how many lightyears away, have also ended up looking, well, pretty much exactly like us? Two legs + two arms + torso + face = boring. At least the broad in Total Recall had three boobs.
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Oh dear this doesn't bode well. After all this build-up, are we going to be treated to the usual corny "tall blue humanoid alien with stripes and a tail" shit?
I really had my hopes up for this movie, but I guess I might still be waiting a bit longer for someone to make an epic movie about alien life that doesn't involve corny "sci-fi paperback" 40-year-old humanoid alien concept designs. -
god bless science fiction!
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Fuck yes... I just want to see them catnip-ped to the gills indulging in an insane feline orgy. We need this to be good- I'm praying that 2008/9 will be a return to form and the shit-stains that have been the last few years releases will be viewed in the future as a puzzling aberration.
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Ninjatracksuit, that ain't hair, they're neural lobes, as per the scriptmen - the only alien that's ever gonna look cool with hair is Chewbacca, and that was a fluke.
That said, this doesn't look at all cool anyway. This is bad news, because the treatment stunk up the joint, and we were all hoping the designs and direction would make up for it. Now all we can hope for is the latter, if this pic is anything to go by.
'Derivative' doesn't even touch the sides when it comes to describing this. This is just Abe Sapien after doing a few strokes in Springfield's sewers. Is this really what 200 million buys us these days? Even Spieldberg's lame munchkin WOTW critters were more intersting than this. I think the problem here is that Cameron wanted the likes of N'Deh (or whatever stupid Star Trek name she has) to be sexy or buff for the general audience to feel a connection with - but c'mon. This is the creature he'll want everyone talking about a year from now.
If this pic is bogus, sorry for the rant, James. In all likelihood, considering Avatar is supposed to be THE tentpole movie of '09, it's way too early to allow as complete an image as this to slip through net. What I'm subtly trying to hint any Lightstorm big cheese here is, PLEASE publically disown this image double time, and tell us that we're gonna see something pretty different and iconic - 'cus the consensus opinion on THIS DTV afterthought of an image is: no dice! -
with a diff colour skin and some stripes is all i can see when i see this pic; not too impressed, wanted something cooler.
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I don't want to put glasses on every time I go to the movies. Wake me up when we have holograms.
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then go see monsters of the deep on Imax. That is a really boring piece of work. Also poorly executed. I do love jim though, We all know he's gonna deliver on this movie.
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meow!
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drankin', but that blue bitch is gettin' be horny.
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... and AB King your mom said it's time for your pills.
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Yeah, I came on to say the same thing. I don't know the details of the story but it is absolutely ridiculous to think that life that evolved somewhere other than earth will look anything like us. With all the artists in the world and CGI to make it happen, can't we just once have an 'alien' that doesn't have a head, two arms, two eyes, and a mouth? Even E.T. and Alien were too close to human for me.
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...if this cryptic 'Avatar' is really code for being a live action Thundercats movie, then I'm all for it.
Thundercats HOOOOO!!! -
I love it, but i´m James Cameron´s Bitch.
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Nov 29, 2007 6:49:24 AM CST
Looks like cocept Art for the Abyss II - Return to the Abyss
by filmfunk
Via Spliced via Species via whatever... Don't ken owt about the Avatar!? Don't want to, Just want to wait and park my bum in front of a new Jimmy Cameron Sci-Fi and have my Cinema Loving head fucked once more!No more submersibles and Rusty ship Shenanigans please Jim! Just Hard-Core Technology pushing Big Time Event Movies please!
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I just want a good story told well, and Cameron does exactly that.
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I don't have a problem with the 2 legs, 2 arms, face thing. It makes perfect sense, if you have an alien with a dozen legs it isn't going to be as intelligent because it would have to devote more brain power to running all the extra limbs. As for the face, it makes sense to have all the sensory organs together at the highest point of the body and as close as possible to the brain. We evolved this way for a reason, it makes sense for an alien intelligence to evolve along a similar path as long as there aren't any environmental restrictions.
As for the actual design, it's fucking awful. It looks like they got a cats head and photoshopped it onto a human body then painted it all blue...and it shouldn't be bioluminiscent stripes, it should be patches/spots running down the sides of the body (like Dax in DS9). -
the girls I usually date are the other way around. I'm a bummer for fat asses hidden behind nice smiles.
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A species should be a reflection fo years of evolution in it's environment. A blue humanoid with neon blue stripes should be that way for a reaason. I hope it's a good one, but at this point, I have no idea what that could be.
Why the tail? Why the color? Why humanoid? Why 4 fingers? -
And, like cartoon characters, she's got four fingers. Hate it.
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Nov 29, 2007 7:45:52 AM CST
Why does every alien have to do the Star Trek 'human with paint
by henrydalton
I mean, with a multi-million budget and state-of-the-art CGI etc etc, couldn't we have something a LITTLE less obviously humanoid?
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It's better if you don't.
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and bits of shit stuck on them' thing.
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This is clearly an early concept design. Cameron will come up with the goods.
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I think the reason they made this creature very humanoid is so we would be able to identify with it. Also, I remember reading that the lead human falls in love with a female alien. They had to keep her human enough to make his attraction to her believable.
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but we know how many already have: more people than you've had hot dinners ^__^
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nuff said
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every August 29
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The tail on the blue girl sucked anyways.. It was controlled by a fishing line like the Cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz
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*snickers* I just thought that was hilarious...gee, ya think? Look, Cameron as director and visualist is a genius. His writing abilities are questionable from a dialougue pov---I mean T2 was just ridiculous.
But the Abyss was a classic, and the bridge between the old and the new FX wise. Ed Harris was Sgt. Rock in that film.
Avatar is going to break new ground, and will rock. -
Everything's better with Boobies?
But yeah. The face. If I was nailing her, I'd make her wear a paper bag over her head. -
Nov 29, 2007 8:34:19 AM CST
Unless the scriptment differs drastically from the script
by dannyocean01
I could give 2 figs for this project. I'm not going to be swayed by the fact this is Cameron's return. That scriptment depicted an utterly derivative, dull sci-fi film which took the piggyback concept of 'war' from Forever Peace and set it on some hippy earth mother alien world. If I want to watch Dances with Wolves, I'll go watch Dances with Wolves. And that alien, as Harry says, isn't anything we haven't seen before in one way or another. Cameron should have gone on to make the Terminator we've all been waiting for with man against machine in a huge, devastating war. It wasn't about him repeating himself it was about him concluding a huge piece of work, and he's shelved it to make happy with hippy, bullcrap.
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looks like it should be airbrushed onto the side of a van.
Which isn't a bad thing. -
They have to make the aliens attractive on some level because one of the humans is going to fall in love with one and the audience has to be able to buy into that. It wouldnt work so well if they had insect like faces with tentacles or were floating brains or something. :)
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and honest to God, I wanted to bang Helena Bonham Carter a thousand times more than the other dull blonde chick. Probably the Marla Singer effect. Or closeted bestiality, go figure.
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Not enough breasts. There should be a least six: 2 Ds, 2 Cs, 2 Bs. And a really convoluted pseudo-science explanation.
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Bring it, Jim!
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How unoriginal, (SPOILER? . . .)
So we're on the other side of the universe and the best they can come up with is a girl with a tail. How about something truly alien? Something we haven't seen a thousand times before.
I am looking forward to Avatar, but I still think Cameron's over rated and arrogant. Titanic? Give me a break - he's his own biggest fan. -
Every once in a while when I cant sleep i put on T2 and doze off. Not sure why, I just do.
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You know it is.
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And where is its laser cannon?
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and yet, some won't give him the benefit of the FUCKING doubt? Some people here are hyped with the next Jon Favreau (huh?) or Chris Weitz (???) movies, but won't NEVER forgive him for Titanic. Sad.
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For Christ's sake! It's an apocryphal piece of artwork from a movie that won't be released until summer 2009... Chill out haters!
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Nov 29, 2007 9:20:52 AM CST
That looks like the description from the script treatment...
by harrystitcheese
...that was on the web years ago. I believe the Avatars were 8 feet tall also. They and most fauna on the planet were blue because of the atmosphere.
I can't wait to see the creature that shoots it's head with a spike to kill prey and then reattaches it or the levitating mountains. Should be trippy.
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...and if she's already black and blue, then it saves me the trouble of beating her!
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Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, it's not like he holds the current #1 spot for largest grossing film of all time....oh, shit. Yes he does, you're a moron.
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Cameron hasn't done anything decent in well over a decade. I didn't even care for True Lies, so unless I see something really compelling besides generic alien #43 I'll skip it.
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Maybe if you're one of the kids born in the 1990s who grew up with CGI and you prefer how that stuff looks over models and puppets, then fine, go see Beowolf. But if you're old enough to have enjoyed this film when it actually came out I don't see what's changed. This movie looks great. The effects look way better than most stuff that has come since. I guess one kid has a mullet and that video game John plays at the arcade at the begining kinda date it, but come on, this isn't like Streets of Fire or anything. What next, you guys going say Die Hard ain't all that anymore?
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would be if they could come up with a creature more attractive than even the hottest of God's own human women... (or for the females viewers, human men, but I'm speaking for myself here). 'Impossible' I hear you cry? So was putting a man on the moon. Well, who knows, maybe it still is - but my challenge stands. BTW, I don't thinks there's any hating happening here: We all know the final movie will blow our balls out the top of our heads with character-moment-stuffed, groundbreaking action drama goodness. We're jaded, not stupid.
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I don't think the dialog holds up particularly well. Mostly the "hasta la vista baby" type lines.
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I mean, seriously. Why the hell is Cameron making a "furry" movie? The demo can't be all that big.
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It could well be the last truly great genre flick...until Battle Angel starring Arnie comes along!!
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mark my words.
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mark my words.
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along with the arcade game (Defenders?) and the shitty haircuts. The other 99% of the film however were just grounbreaking, fun, and worthy of cult status. What's not to like, even 15 years or so later?
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I'm kinda surprised anybody would say this. I love James Cameron's movies and think that modern filmmakers biggest problem is that they don't invest enough screentime and seriousness into their characters. His dialogue is very sincere. Modern action movies try to hedge their bets by being sarcastic and self-aware and jokey for 90% of the character scenes and then expect you to suddenly care about them. So yes, Cameron's dialogue is dated, but I prefer that approach to the new stuff.
I'd say The Matrix is one of the few post-Cameron action movies to really spend solid time on character and story. Even when The Matrix came out I found all the references to Alice in Wonderland cheesy and some of the acting hammy. But I wouldn't go calling it dated or say that it doesn't hold up, and I doubt I ever will. There was stuff in there I never liked, but it's still a great action film.As for "hasta la vista", I wouldn't call T2 a oneliner fest, especially compared to other Schwarzenhegger flicks like Commando. I guess James Cameron was sort of a pioneer of the transition in action movies where they went from being cheesy jokey movies like Commando to respectable "action-dramas" like Bourne these days, so in Cameron's work there are some remnants of the oldschool action ways, such as the occasional oneliner. I guess it's not enough for me to call his movies dated, or to hinder my enjoyment of it. -
Mr. Jones's remarks about Titanic; exactly. I can think of, oh, a billion and a half reasons why it's a great movie. Titanic is a classic. The effects in T2 are still top shelf--because NO one can light a set like Cameron and his people. Watch the Asylum sequence in that film, or the bathroom fight in True Lies. That being said, T2 is dated in a 'script' way for me....the dialouge is painfully cheesy. T3 IS the better film, and I stand by that. Next to Ridely Scott, Cameron is the only director that I grew up with that I STILL go see in theatre, no matter what it is. He's a true master.
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Star wars prequel to james Cameron and then quit.
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are not dated my friend
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Nov 29, 2007 10:44:05 AM CST
Does anyone know why I can seemingly only
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
sign on at 3:40 in the freakin AM. Its a helluva time to rant..... Oh and Cameron Rules, anyone who can't admit excitement for a new JAMES CAMERON SCIFI FLICK, is either a eunich or their testicles havn't dropped.
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T2 dated!? This is one helleva classic sequel masterpiece that will never be dated. Maybe the Guns N Roses song but thats it! I hope AVATAR is a wild ride like T2 was in 1991. Cameron and Spielberg are one of a handful of filmmakers that develop characters equal to the enormous action set pieces.
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Nov 29, 2007 10:52:38 AM CST
You'll notice I did not call you haters gay
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
The gayest gay who ever gayed would still be more excited, hence, more of a man than you weirdo spoilt brats. Let me guess, you guys could do this better than Cameron right? I'm more excited about this than I was about the return of Kubrick, Mallick and Lucas all in the one year. It still stuns me that he cops flack for his king of the world speech. The guy had just made the most expensive movie of all time, based on a story where everyone on Earth knew the outcome. It was being called a flop months before it opened, there were rumours of an extremely unhappy set (the entire crew were poisoned by LSD in their meals) and when all was said and done his movie made more money than any other flick in history by at least double. Nahh your right, he has no right to brag.
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it may be one of those things that looks better when moving rather than just seeing it as a drawing. I'm really hoping that by the time Avatar hits our eyeballs it looks 100 times better than Beowulf.To me that only looks slightly better than the Spirits Within and that ain't great. I hope Cameron's crew can truly make it where I can't tell it's cg. That's where Beowulf failed miserably.
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But if it's from the schlub who brought us Titanic, True Lies, and Piranha Part II: The Spawning, then the final product must truly be genius!
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I always thought that the ultimate STAR WARS prequel trilogy would have been George Lucas directing the first one, Steven Spielberg directing the second one, and then James Cameron directing the third and final episode. Have all three of them involved creatively on scripting WITH participation from the top writers in the world, and spend a billion dollars making them. George Lucas would have cemented his legacy as a filmmaking maverick/visionary with a project that would have never been equaled. Instead we got.......
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Or does no-one else see Cortana in that pic?
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Admit it Merrick, you just pulled this from 4Chan.
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AVATAR will set the world on fire. Believe it. I can't wait for all the naysayers (and there seem to be several) to be proven thoroughly wrong! I'm also shocked at all the people saying "she looks too human"! Uhm, this is a movie, not a documentary. I'm sure that intelligent alien life on other planets evolved in ways that are totally different from us, but the Na'vi are characters........that we need to identify with. This is fiction. And I can guarantee that they will move and look very alien in comparison to us. Just the changing skin alone will be trippy. And anyone who has read the scriptment knows that the planet Pandora will be a mind fuck. VERY alien to earth.
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To ALL naysayers: Go put ALIENS (theatrical cut) into your dvd player and behold what a masterpiece of action filmmaking looks, sounds, moves, and feels like. AVATAR is going to knock us on our collective geek asses!
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I'll see you in the AVATAR talkback May 23rd 2009. I'm really going to enjoy saying "I told you so".
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"Current #1 spot for largest grossing film of all time" Well woopiedoo. If popularity equalled quality we'd have no shit in the music charts. You've seen Titanic right? Sheep, baah.
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Ummm yeah I have seen it, along with a couple of hundred million people. Say what you want about Titanic douche, but there is no denying the achievment of the piece and when you compare it to Pearl Harbour(which follows the same basic blueprint) it leaves it for dead.
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more badassness is more.
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I should have just said "Hey you, Dickless". This is like David Lean rising from the dead, except Lean didn't write.
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James Cameron WAS one of the greatest talents in the whole film industry. the man was a visionary - sure, Aliens, Terminator covertly and True Lies overtly just ripped off (or "paid homage" to) old existing films and shows, but boy he sure made them his own, didn't he? and, whereas i have some problems watching it all the way through again due to the lame Furlong performance and it not really being a proper Terminator film, T2 is one of the all time greats. but then he disappeared with wealth and opulence for ten odd years after Titanic, turning up to make some ocean films and some bizarre claims about Christ's burial site, no? i would love it if this Avatar business, whatever the hell it actually is, came along and smacked everyone sideways. i just think that, and you have to accept that Cameron is no Kubrick, 10 years away from cinema and more than that away from, broadly speaking, "action" films is a bit of a warning sign - i imagine Mr Cameron to be at worst over-bloated and self-indulgent, at best just making something to keep the bank ticking over. it will be class if i am wrong, but i suspect Avatar will be dullsville and of little interest or success.
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Nov 29, 2007 11:41:26 AM CST
Cameron is the greatest visualist in cinema
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
Better even than Spielberg.
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Nov 29, 2007 11:45:38 AM CST
The hatred and hostility on this board towards Cameron is astoun
by lovecraftfan
I mean really have you guys seen his films. Theyre pretty damn good.
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Nov 29, 2007 11:47:16 AM CST
Comparing Titanic to Pearl harbour is like comparing crap to shi
by thall_joben
Baah! BAAAH! "It's popular so it's great" BAAAAAHHHH! Sheep.
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he was just perfecting his proprietary 3D material with his documentaries.
Granted, the Jesus H. Christ documentary he produced was lame. -
right, before i get lashed, T2's effects hold up VERY well today, and the action sequences have seldom been equaled, let alone surpassed, in the last 15-odd years. the film ceased to be a "proper" Terminator film, however, with the "i swear i will not kill anybody", or if you will "i svear i vil nat kill anyvody" moment. it was a real Jump The Shark incident in the film. this idea of the Terminator not killing anybody to meet some adolescent ideal from a criminal kid about recreating the future is nonsense. whereas it is plausible that a child would make such a wish, the reality is that to save them, violence and death would have to be a reality. had they not had Arnie "svear" and explain that it was the nature of survival to kill to protect, you would have had a genuine, bona fide Sci Fi classic and probably the best Terminator film of them all. it's not that i wanted to see mauled bodies all over for some sadistic pleasure, it's just that they defeated the ends of their own contextual reality and story development with that moment. as i said before, Furlong's performance didn't really help much either, but i suppose he was at least not as annoying as the little shit they had as the kid in Last Action Hero who more or less destroyed that one. should anyone deem it necessary to reply, please give some consideration to my observations, then slam away at will if you must.
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kudos.
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it's sort of like something a fan would draw who had read the treatment. I'm still not sure about this movie...the fact that it's cameron and he's pushing the boat out is the only thing that's appealing to me. The treatment was pretty mundane in terms of story and characters...it'll really be the direction and effects that will make this.
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I'm still looking forward to it, despite my vitriol.
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in the movie's context (and was cleverly explored in T3 as well): John Connor is NOT READY to be the saviour he was meant to be, the warlord sending men to certain death to save what's left of mankind. The T-800 wasn't a nanny, he was a substitute father. And no one would want to see his father kill someone, especially innocents. Even for the sake of survival, it would be quite ugly on oh so many moral planes.
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Wow it must be great to have the right opinion all the time.
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Nov 29, 2007 11:59:27 AM CST
It would be awesome to know everything
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
Just think, no Iraq , no 9/11, no slavery, no religion if only they had of asked..... Thall Joben
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Nov 29, 2007 12:03:12 PM CST
Comparing Titanic to Pearl harbour is like comparing crap to shi
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
lets just see shall we..... James Cameron or Micheal Bay, Leo or Assfleck, Winslet or Beckinsale. Yeah, your right, nuthin different there.....fuckwit.
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Not saying that I know it all, well maybe just a little. That a large number of people share an opinion isn't necessarily an indicator that everyone is right, (see Nazi Germany for a nice example) only that a belief is popular - got it? It's not a complicated concept. Oh and "BAAAAH"!
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touche!(except for your obvious Nazi link, couldn't you have hit out at browncoats, much more worrisome than skinheads.)
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if the world is on fire, the internet may be destroyed. plus we would be in ice caves trying to survive.
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I like most of his movies, I just don't enjoy his public persona, or think he's the greatest director that ever lived.
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And the whole fucking point of T2 is the Millennium Falcon. You better go apologize to Lord Vader.
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I think he's the greatest action director that ever lived. Go back and watch Aliens, I doubt Speilberg or Kurosawa could have framed it better.
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I lol'd hard.
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Oh dear. Much as I absolutely love it Aliens was just a derivative war movie sequel of Alien, with a lot less class and originality (I hear ticking) - not that this makes it bad, just not the greatest movie ever made. Kurosawa never made a movie that ended like the Abyss..
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I do like the director's cut (sentry guns and extra Hudson dialogue is great) but the main problem with it is takes away the mystery of going back to the planet.
After just seeing the first film we know nothing of alien other than a few small glimpses. Not seeing what has happened on the planet when Ripley and the marines go back make it so much more eerie.
Where has everyone gone? Are the people still alive somewhere? Is it the alien or something else? Did the space jockeys come back?
However stick in that opening scene with Newt's family where they discover the face hugger and it kind of changes all that to a "here we go again" moment, killing all the pre-alien fight mystery. -
Nov 29, 2007 12:31:22 PM CST
Thall_Joben thats because Kurosawa was the
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
better filmmaker. Cameron is the best at framing his action, in all of his movies I am never confused by a blurry visual or a quick cut as to the detriment of the scene unlike Bay and even a good director like Ridley Scott.
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Am I a D+D nerd? What? Drizzt is cool!
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Thats an excellent point plus the theatrical cut has the line from Hudson mysteriously absent from the directors cut as the pressure door closes. "Come on baby, hurry uuup, come oown."
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would like some originality.
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Cameron Rules WHOOOOOOOOOO
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We went from an environment in Alien where you felt that encountering a dangerous ET was something completely out of the ordinary, to suddenly being in a universe where intergalactic marines are taking part in bughunts all over the place. Huh? Great action director and a cool movie, I can't argue with that - I just felt that the reality that Ridley built was diminished. Ridley out classes him by a mile.
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HE is the best.
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I love alien chicks that look like they stay in shape via John Basedow.
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I don't care for the Hudson missing line (never noticed it in fact).
Now, the whole Weiland-Yutani colony scene seems to bug a lot of people, and I never understood why. By showing the everyday life in the colony before the shutdown, Cameron reinforces the bond between Newt and Ripley, manages to shoot a shit-in-your-pants sequence, brings some fresh air to his first act (too Ripley centered to my own taste in the theatrical cut) and reinforces the suspense precisely because we saw what it looked like before the shit hit the fan. All this in less than 10 minutes. Oh, and did I mention the motherfuckin sentry guns? -
you asked to name you one action director better (i believe I have that right). Fair enough; Ridley Scott. The obvious choice would be Blade Runner, but it's his recent films that make him. Black Hawk Down is the finest war film ever shot; and he doesn't use the hyper editing, or anything of the things you bring up. I agree with all your points, but Sir Ridley is #1. Jimmy is right up there though, believe me.
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Maybe I would - I just prefer the first movie, I know it's a personal choice. He has stood on the shoulders of giants, not that there's nothing wrong with that, or that anyone should hold it against him. I just think he's not the flawless master some folks round here would have us all believe.
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But its story and its paper thin characters are barely developed. A bit overrated.
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and thank god Bana and Isaacs save the day, character-wise.
Gotta agree with Nosferatu on Gladiator. Visually overrated, and thematically all over the place. Haven't seen Kingdom of Heaven solely because of the historical BS of Gladiator (kinda like Cameron's doc about our bud Jesus), however many say that KoH director's cut is brilliant so I gotta give it a try someday. -
have a body form that would appeal to the erotic fantasies of young men. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations as long as the final combination has sex appeal to a large ticket buying demographic.
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...because then I get to direct them in my head, and see if the actual director does it better. Alien Resurrection? I did it way better. Being John Malkovich? Jones did it better. I read the Avatar scriptment, and I designed the aliens in my mind, assuming the King of the World would do it better. If the above is the final design - he didn't. Nice tits, though. (On the alien, not Cameron.)
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Pretty sure the whole planet was bioluminescent to some degree. And they were tall humanoids with tails. The "hair" isn't hair but (POSSIBLE SPOILER) a neural interface that allows the whole planet to communicate in one harmonious hippy eco love-in (that's the films "message"; set eyes to roll). I seem to remember their knees pointing in the other direction though. Maybe he saw how freaky that was in the Charlie Sheen classic THE ARRIVAL and took it out.
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Theres an alien I'd like to make jugg-jugg with.
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zugg-zugg..Its what the Amazons wanted to do to Fry and Branigann.
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Don't they get cold?
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I saw that same design on the side of a van back in '78.
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then just kill yourself because the guy has one of the best track records ever. It blows my mind how you losers can talk shit about T2 seeing as how it changed the framework of digital technology in film. To call T2 DATED is one of the stupidest things you can do seeing is how its one of the only perfectly blended films when it comes to practical and digital effects, thats like calling JAWS dated, if you wanna see a dated movie look at anything made a few years after T2 like JUMANJI or some shit (just an example of dated digital effects). I mean compared to the thousands of action films that I've seen camerons work is pretty fucking good, hate on the people who have made no artistic contribution, dont hate on iron jim. You call yourselves geeks but your really just bitchy little pussies who think your qualified to judge great work when you know absolutely nothing about filmmaking. If you had any idea what its like to make a film you would realize what an accomplishment that movie is. Get a fucking clue and think before u type.
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if a movie geek is someone who complains about good movies then I'm glad I'm not one of them. You guys really got alotta balls. especially in your mouths.
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Sounds like we got another sheep hereabouts. Cockworker indeed.
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and I dont understand that
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All excellent points on the ALIENS extended cut. Saves me from having to type it.
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Not true - I do have respect for him some of the time. I think he's often shown himself to be an undeniably skilled filmmaker. It's just this "Iron Jim" thing. Don't you hate it when folks make an asset out of someone behaving like an asshole? Many of his movies rock, some don't, No one needs to be 'qualified' just to have an opinion, I'm sure you don't seriously think we should all share yours? Plenty of directors make great films without acting like a sulky, bad tempered arrogant dickhead.
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meant that his movies were consistently good, and no not everyone should share my opinion. But when one is voicing theirs they should have good reasoning. I'm sure the people who have worked with him hate him and that sucks because it doesn't have to be that way, directors should treat their cast and crew the way they wanna be treated.
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but I still like good movies
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I thought I was alone with a preference of the theatrical version of Aliens over the director's cut so good to see other people agreeing.
SpencerTrilby - it's not a dislike for the scene, it is interesting, but it's out of place in the movie. So far we've only followed Ripley (and will continue to do for the rest of the series) but here's this one scene which whisks you off to a world many light years away to some characters we've never met. I find Newt's introduction better in the theatrical version as you see her first as scared malnourished survivor. Ripley (and the viewer having never seen Newt either) then discovers who she really is throughout the film as the bond is created and she begins to trust Ripley. -
Just joining. (This is a test)
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http://www.queencheetah.com/Thundercubs/bengali3.jpg
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The special effects of T2 are still holding up! Why? The guys who worked on them had to explore new areas and stuff, because none of those technics really existed before. Unlike now, when making a new cgi film is just another fukkin' boring Maya job for any competent 3d artist. Also I agree with the Aliens theatrical cut being the best. Not only that, but if I had to recommend the Alien saga to someone, I would advise to watch it in the order Aliens, Alien, Aliens SE (and stop there).
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Gay^10...I wonder if she'll stand at the bow of an alien spaceship with her equally gay-looking boyfriend as he shouts, "I'm the king of the universe".
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but I'll wait until I see what it's context is when I see the movie before I judge much. I'm staying away from plot spoilers on this one now, so just the alien itself means very little to me.
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Since both have been mentioned here, I would like to say that the first two Alien movies are my favorite Beowulf movies--and I have seen the latest. Alien(s) a Beowulf movie? How can that be you say? First movie--first part of the poem--an unseen monster enters the safe home of a small group. It attacks and eats the people it finds there. It comes from Kane/Cain. It's blood is acid and melts iron. The hero defeats it while practically naked. Aliens--the hero with a group of warriors set out to defeat the monster. The hero, now encased in armor, descends to the lair of the mother of the monster and defeats her. While the new movie has the names correctly, these two movies capture more the spirit of the poem.
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Who is this "RodHolt" person who speaks such cinematic blasphemy?"tough guy marine bullshit"?"a Michael Bay movie"?!"the alien design itself is the worst of the series"?"that Jew Paul Reiser"?!What a fucking loon. Unbelievable.
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Why do they always gotta look human, hell we had fucking tails once BFD, and she aint got nipples!
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I really think that you are stretching there. Alien is far more of a freudian nightmare than a story in common with Beowulf. Beowulf is more concerned with the passage of time and with the germanic pre-christian concepts of the decay of order into chaos. You should take a gander at Tolkien's "Beowulf: the Monsters and the Critics"--it's interesting for a variety of reasons.
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Like we don't know when you guys pull shit like this. A photo is "leaked" or "stolen" then quickly disappears... yeah we know. It's OK we don't mind not being paid yet being part of a focus group. Anyway, my opinion, I think that the initial design is nice, keep the tail, she needs hair though the whole Persis, Sineid, Britney, look is out, she also looks pissed off like she knows that geeks are gettin jiggly looking at her in the buff. Overall, if you can make her convey emotion then she'll do just fine.
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the new Beowulf movie is really a bastardization of the poem.
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Cameron, please, lets get back to the things people actually care about okay? Start funding the anime live-actioners and make em good. Nobody gives a crap about Avatar. We've all seen Tron and The Matrix. Please. Get with the real projects. Please? Thanks.
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and I would've at least made her boobs even..sheesh!
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I don't really have anything more to say. I just use that line at every opportunity and this is one of the only places where anyone would actually get it. Carry on.
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"A bad call? THESE PEOPLE ARE DEAD BURKE! I hope they nail your head right to th wall for this. Right to the wall."
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That low angle shot right on the ground speeding along behind Furlong on the bike in the LA canals chase sequence? That one shot is better than every action movie made since put together. Pulse pounding excitement is generated by writing an exciting sequence, filming it in an original and visually interesting way and cutting it together so that you forget to breath for a few minutes. Cameron is the master of this. There is nobody else who can touch him when it comes to sci-fi action, nobody. So you guys crying about T2, go take your copies of all the blockbusters made since, you know, real high quality efforts like Bad Boys 2, Spiderman 3 and the Pirates of the Caribbean films and gorge on the cinematic artistry to be found there. Those of us who actually have a fucking clue about cinema will discuss Avatar in the meantime.
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Nov 29, 2007 7:03:58 PM CST
Not To Quibble With You Mr. Atreidies (aka kwisatzhhaderach)
by laserpants
But NONE of the action seqeuences of T2 even come close to the action cinematography of CHILDREN OF MEN. Talk about pulsepounding, rip yr heart our insanity. Of course, we could also reach back and point out how THE FRENCH CONNECTION's car chase under the el pwns T2, and the similarly insane action direction in Mad Max 1 and 2, but, why go there? T2 is okay. I hated it when it came out (the Terminator is a good guy now? He's a father figure? Dear god.), but like it more now. But, and sorry to say this, but, the action sequences in T3 -- especially the insanely stupidly awesome Crane Chase also pwns T2s action sequences. Not to say that T2 doesn't have its moments, but it pales in comparison to all the flicks I've mentioned above. And at least T3 new it was funny. T2 wants to be grim and serious so bad its untintentionally hilarious. (Although I always liked how over-the-top Sarah's apocalypse dreams were.)
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Well, maybe you're not an idiot, I don't know, but your posts are definitely idiotic. The "tough guy marine bullshit" is meant to set up just how formidable the aliens really are. The Colonial Marines go in thinking and talking like they are going to kick ass, and then they get their asses handed to them. Maybe you weren't paying attention.
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Certainly in the topten best sci-fi actioners EVAR. It still holds up too, dated efx and all, its just a great movie.
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"Tough guy marine bullshit," indeed. That was the point -- American style imperial arrogance coming up against an insanely tough entrenched native force, and getting pwned. I believe theres a similar event going on now... Starship Troopers being a retroactive spin on that...
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I think Arnold needs to be apart of BATTLE ANGEL. After T2:3D being their last team up effort, Arnie and Jim need a new franchise together. Ido would be a great character for Arnie to do for three movies with Cameron.
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CHILDREN OF MEN has better action than TERMINATOR 2: JUDGMENT DAY? Sorry fanboy, but CoM is not going to have the cult following that so many think it will. It's a good movie, maybe even a great movie, but it is not a classic. T2 is a classic. We'll still be discussing T2 on this geek website in 50 years, guaranteed.
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what's the purpose of the tail other then, "Add a tail, it would look cool." Does it climb around in trees? Does it use for balance? Does it use to aid in it's comfort, swatting bugs away? WTF! "Oh, and only give it 3 fingers and a thumb, and only four toes. That should look alien enough." If this is a female avatar then fine it's not to bad. But if it's the alien that lives on the planet then it's far fetched. No species is gonna look that close to us without some type of interaction. Why not do something original like put her vagina on her face. It makes just as much sense as most Hollywood aliens. Please don't fuck this project up.
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I don't doubt that T2 will still be talked about 50 years from now, but CoM will as well. CoM is also a better film. And dude, seriously, that last 20 minutes? Tell me that wasn't one of the best, if not THE best extended action sequence you've ever seen. It was practically a documentary; like as if you were running though the ruins filming it yourself. NOTHING in T2 can even touch that.
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As a modern actioner? Pwns T2. Utterly.
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Go. The. Fuck. Away. You ruin every James Cameron talkback with your homoerotic Arnold Schwarzenegger fixation.
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I dare any of you haters to do what Cameron did with that final Queen/Power-Loader battle, using the technology of the time (early 80s). I mean, you watch that and it's fucking FLAWLESS!! Cameron is a GOD among men when it comes to directing.
Watch the resuscitation scene in The Abyss. It breaks my heart every time. And NO OTHER DIRECTOR could EVER have done what Cameron did with Titanic. Even by today's standards, once the iceberg hits, that film kicks ass.
The design above is a tad lame, but I am giving JC the benefit of the doubt. HE'S EARNED IT! I totally believe that in may 2009, Cameron is gonna have his cinematic cock in my ass. -
That documentary style is EXACTLY why it's not a great action scene. Anyone can do documentary style. I'm not saying it's not well done, it's just not great filmmaking.
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I'm sorry, but the cinema-veritie style of CoM is infinitely more exciting to me than the ludicrous super fakey T2 thang. Anybody can make that with enough money. Something like CoM, or Mad Max, or the French Connection was all grit and and insane level of skill, talent, prowess. T2 is just a reflection of the dollars behind it. Which still works on its own merits, sure, but feels to ersatz for me to be wowed.
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Why do you keep comparing the action in CHILDREN OF MEN with THE FRENCH CONNECTION and MAD MAX/THE ROAD WARRIOR? Yes, CoM has that cinema verite style which is just having a camera follow the action. That isn't great direction. T2, THE FRENCH CONNECTION, and MAD MAX/THE ROAD WARRIOR have the mise-en-scene that makes a great action set-piece. Specific shots in a specific order, not just a camera there in the middle of the action. And yes, I think everyone here can agree that the action in the BOURNE films is fucking awesome.
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You think that money has ANYthing to do with great filmmaking? In a word: No. James Cameron made THE TERMINATOR with 6.5 million, SPIDER-MAN 3 cost 250 million. THE TERMINATOR is a masterpiece and one of the greatest action films AND one of the greatest sci-fi films ever made. SPIDER-MAN 3 is horrible.
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Though Tolkien's 1936 lecture/article changed the course of Beowulf criticism a great deal has been written on the poem since then. I did not mean to imply in my post that Alien(s) was in any way a sci-fi adaptation of the layered themes of the Anglo-Saxon poem. I only meant to suggest that it parallelled the basic narrative motifs of the epic and unlike the recent film, it allowed the hero to be a hero--and still retain a great deal of psychological depth. That alone makes it closer to the original poem than the Faustian Beowulf that Zemeckis and Gaiman have served us.
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Wait, wait, wait, you think CoM wasn't meticulously blocked out, sequenced, edited? to a ludicrously precise degree? The kind of precision that would make Kubrick weep with envy? CoM is HARDLY just "a camera placed in the middle of the action." T2, on the other hand, is really very pedestrian and uncraftmanlike -- point camera at explosion. Boom. Not very exciting. Not what what I would call great filmmaking.
You know what T2 let loose upon the world? Michael Bay. Thats what T2 feels like to me -- a Michael Bay movie. -
I'll warrant that the two are different films, but I have to agree with Thall-Joben that the universe in Aliens feels different than the one in Alien, and that there is a diminishment between the two. Alien is an intensely psychological film, where everything encountered by the main characters is progressively more and more wrong: that there's non-human technology out there, that the derelect is so big and creepy, that its pilot is huge and fused, that there are things still alive, that they attach to your face, that they impregnate and kill you, that the little chittering monster gets huge and has no eyes, that you can't kill it, etc. Each revelation is shock and horror, because it doesn't seem possible. Aliens, on the other hand, is a much more conventional--albeit very well done--nailbiter of an action flick. More fun to watch, but not as smart nor as impactful as its predecessor.
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I want to remember reading Fangoria shortly before Aliens came out and seeing a picture of Ripley beside a Burke. Now I thought that the scene was going to be an omage to the scene cut from the original Alien (that was restored in recent cut) of Ripley discovering Dallas and . . . crap . . . whats his name . . . they are cocooned, and she burns them and blah, blah, blah. Anyway was there a scene even filmed where Ripley encounters Burke? Or am mistaken?
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my bad.
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Maybe the Beowulf/Aliens thing is just a reflection of the idea that Beowulf is one of the archetypes of the 'monster story'.
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My apologies; I think I misjudged both you and your post. I am, of course, aware that the Tolkien lecture is a bit dated (and it rather embarrassingly overlooks the third monster in the poem), but it's a good starting place for understanding Beowulf. Sounds like you are far ahead of me--I'm more of a modernist when it comes to literary studies. Haven't seen (and undoubtedly won't see) the Zemeckis Beowulf; the poster art with the castle was enough to make me suspect the filmmakers really didn't know or care much more about the story than that it had monsters, fighting, and a marketable pedigree.
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Aliens is sci-fi action. It's as simple as that.
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Please don't apologize. I didn't mean to intend for the tone of my post to have any kind of defensive edge. As someone who loves the original poem, I am thrilled that anybody has actually read it, let alone any of the literary criticism of it--and if you are going to read criticism of it few write as well as Tolkien. His love for the poem is infectious.
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I would wager that Sir Ridley's most accomplished film---because it's different, might be American Gangster. See, THIS is where i'd like to see Mr. Cameron venture...I've said for years that he is the best visual and set director (among many other things) since Sir Ridley. He proved this too me with Aliens---the sequel to Sir Ridley's film. There are haters on this talkbalk, and I don't understand alot of beefs; we are talking about Mr. Cameron as a filmaker. Not his films necessarily. Mr. Jones, your point about his track record...the end to all arguements RIGHT there. Even mine about Sir Ridley. I mean, did anyone actually SEE Hannibal *rolls on floor howling*
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I thank you for your civility and erudition. You, sir/madam, have restored my faith in the internets. I have actually read a bit more criticism of Beowulf than Tolkien's--a few years back I picked up a norton critical edition that had a pretty well-stocked appendix. But Tolkien's really stood out. I assume you've read Gardner's Grendel novella; I wish we'd get more adaptations of the poem like that, rather than cgi mocap experiments.
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You know the aliens are responsible. It is an alien movie who else would it be? And it doesn't really ruin it because it only really shows them discover the aliens. They might still be alive. We don't know they are dead until the maines go and look for them. I remember I saw Aliens for the first time when Alien 3 was about to be released in the cinemas and I thought to myself "well Ripley has to survive this movie so she can be alive in the next" - its the same kind of thing (though that theory wouldn't hold up for Alien Resurrection).
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Laserpants- T2 is pedestrian? WTF? most sensible post of the TB is the Clockworker one "Alien is Sci-Fi Horror, Aliens is sci-fi action)- Spot on.And Titanic was FUCKING DREADFUL. I don't care how many morons made repeat visits- Spiderman3 made a huge amount of money, is anyone going to pretend it is any good?
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Nov 30, 2007 3:39:21 AM CST
I can't think of a good alien design since THE "Alien".
by 'cholera's ghost
Movies that really should have kicked profuse amounts of ass in alien conception design have dropped the ball big-time. Spielberg decided he'd copy/paste the Independence Day creatures. In Contact it was a hologram of David Morse, and I will forever love the South Park and Venture Bros. episodes skewering that choice. So anyway who's the main character marine guy in this? Please say Christian Bale, please say Christian Bale, please say Christian Bale, please say Christian Bale...
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I can't find anyone now that owns up to PAYING to see titanic- let alone liking it. There's clearly plenty of lying bastards out there.
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All that talk about Cameron needing technology to reach a certain point before he could make Avatar... and for this? A woman in a blue suit?
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Their sextape is online now.
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Has never made a bad film.
The Donkey Rapers here who attack him attack everything.
You know Cameron will own 2009. If you say he won't, you're just a pig fucker. -
I paid to see it seven times in the theatres back in '97 and '98.
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...This feeling I'm experiencing right now. Reading all these people who step up to the plate to trash the guy I hold as the most influential filmmaker in my life, and yet, it just make me chuckle more than anything.
In my eyes, Cameron's the best writer in the business, period. (Though he's got Whedon nipping at his heels, IMO.) Lots of people rip him for his dialogue, which I personally have no problem with, even includiong the melodrama of Titanic. But dialogue is just the paint on the house. And Cameron's houses are always the most impressive because they're simply built so fucking well. (Talking story structure here, for the metaphorically impaired.)
The first script I ever read was the published shooting script for T2. It taught me everything I ever needed to know about screenplay formating. And with Van Ling's footnotes throughout the book, it also taught me a lot about production and how it can affect what was initially on the page and what ultimately is seen on the screen. I've read a lot of movie scripts since then, from a lot of different writers, and I can still say without a doubt in my mind, Cameron writes them better than anybody. They read like books. You can't put them down. And the way he describes the scenes, you can see it all in your head. Or at least, your version of it. So I've already seen my version of Avatar, and his draft of Spider-Man, and the very outstanding A Crowded Room (which we'll never actually get to see, and that's a damn shame.) By the time you finish the script, you feel like you've actually seen the movie. And it almost feels just as exciting as it would in the theatre. So, say what you want about him as a writer, but I believe you should really get your hands on some of his actual **writing** before you make that judgment. And also read some other scripts by other writers and I can promise you you'll see a big difference.
And then there's the ages-old "Titanic sucks because everybody liked it" argument, which I've never really figured out. It's easy to hate on something so melodramatic, sure. It's easy to call the fans sheep to explain its popularity. It's easy to play the contrarian to popular consensus and say the masses will love anything they're told to love. But it's not easy for me to explain why I loved the damn movie, myself. Maybe because I know that Cameron put every ounce of passion and will and talent that he has to make that movie what it was. He didn't phone anything in on that movie. You can accuse him of painting the script with broad strokes of puppy love and easy sentimentality, but you can't tell me for one second that you could endure all the shit he went through to get that movie made. He wrote the film he wanted to make, and then he made the film he wanted to make. Ironically, which many people here might be too young to remember or be aware of, the movie was expected to tank horribly. Nobody in the industry believed Jim could pull that one off. It was really expected to be Cameron's "Heaven's Gate." It was a 3-hour-long period piece about a ship sinking, it had no bankable stars, it was horrendously over-budget, and it was described as basically an exercise in overindulgence by a megalomaniacal filmmaker tyrant, who was working outside his established genre. It had no **reason** to succeed. (And don't tell me it couldn't fail with the "built-in" 12-18 year-old female demographic... talk about your least bankable target audience.) Somehow, the world loved the flick. They liked the film he made. Oh yeah, and so did the Academy.
The guy made the first film to make more than a billion dollars in its theatrical run. (And it nearly made 2 billion.) It was tied with Ben Hur for most Academy Award nominations. It won, what, 11 of them?
I think the guy did something right. Despite your best efforts, that's the way I see it. And list me all your favorite directors, living or dead, but I don't think any of them could have made the film any better. At least David Lean could have compared, but I don't think he could've surpassed what Jim did.
And for talking shit about T2 or Aliens, I think it's the law that you have to turn in your geek card. Those movies defined their genre. Cameron's films (yes, True Lies and Titanic included,) set the mark to which other films and filmmakers aspire, just like the films of Coppola, Scorsese, Spielberg, Ford, Lean, or Hitchcock set the precedents that other filmmakers tried to follow.
So that's my rant. Hate on me all you want. Doesn't change my reasons for worshipping the guy as an artist, a writer, or a filmmaker. But I just think it's ridiculous to stand up and declare one of the most influential moviemakers of our time to be nothing special. Seriously.
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Seriously, own every movie of his bar Titanic (which I despise)- even Pirhana 2. if you are going to quote Goldman- then I'll respond with Robert Altman who said it was the worst film to ever win an oscar. So, we'll agree to differ about this, although you are right that anyone hating on Aliens should feel free to leave and never, ever return
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...I decided NOT to mention the William Goldman article in Premiere where he said Cameron had it hands down for the best screenplay, despite not being nominated. I bring that one up a lot when I'm writing my lengthy "Cameron is God" diatribes. ;-)
Though even Goldman admitted Titanic's dialogue was sometimes shudder-inducing, the structure was unbeatable. And when you consider the other films nominated that year (As Good As It Gets, Boogie Nights, Deconstructing Harry, The Full Monty & Good Will Hunting,) that's saying something.
And thanks for the kind words. -
That thing looks like shit, and is very derivative of 100 other things. Better luck next time.
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I don't completely agree with your feelings on T2, but having just rewatched it recently I do see where you're coming from. Eddie Furlong is just annoying with his girlscream voice and attitude. I think Linda Hamilton was good, and Robert Patrick was great. It's still a good, fun movie--but for whatever reason it doesn't have that timeless quality of the first.
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a good alien design for a movie since Giger/Rambaldi's Alien? The Independence Day biomechanical suit maybe comes closest, even though its still a bit of a rip off (why did they have to be 'suits' anyway, with those piss-ant close-encounter dweebs inside 'em? The suits should've been the actual creatures, armed with badass galactic firepower and running around kicking all kinds of hell against human guerilla forces on the ground, while the Earth pilots did their thing topside. Ahem.
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I love the alien series to death, and that's my favorite part. Of course the batshit insane local dub may help.
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Is what that alien looks like
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OK You try and come up with an original design for an alien...oh wait green with tentacles has already been done...what's that? Grey with big black eyes too? Apparently it's harder than it sounds.
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I thought of all the disagreements and rashly different opinions we have had over the years the one thing that united us all was a love for ALIENS and T2.All you guys calling these movies overrated and dated and crappy are no longer invited to my birthday party and if I had a Facebook account I would hit the "unfriend" button or whatever.I guess we just can't take anything for granted anymore. There are people who don't like ALIENS and T2 and on this of all talkbacks. Maybe you guys also consider the use of your legs to be dated, and maybe you think freedom of speech is overrated. I guess we just have to go separate ways. Bye.
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Its bad enough that these guys bag movies that not even finished by the gods of film, but to actively bag T2 and Aliens shows a monumental lack of intelligence that I find hard to believe exists amongst people who can turn on a computer. In case you fuckwits didn't realise, these films are CLASSICS that will be remembered in 100 years time. Thank fuck most of you will be gone, I just pray for the legal castration of idiots.
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I like it. The form is basically humanoid (2 arms, 2 legs), but the gray skin and bioluminescent stripes are pretty badass. And I'm sure they're not just for show. JC always creates fully realized aliens based on well-described biological functionality.
I'm definitely intrigued. -
I don't like this drawing, at all. Although I realize it does look exactly like how these creatures were described in the scriptment that found its way on the internet earlier.
Speaking of that scriptment – spoiler warning - I was severely disappointed with the ending. One neural network plugging into and downloading another? You can’t do that - neural networks don’t work like that. I hope that’s changed. -
Nov 30, 2007 3:55:12 PM CST
movies with great alien designs since giger's"alien"...
by jimmyjoe redsky
signs, dreamcatcher(outlandish but creepy), pitch black(a giger homage that worked), war of the worlds(ridiculous but cool), starship troopers(tank bugs that shoot glowing blue shit into space, awesome), red planet(most believable and likely for us to encounter), wayne barlowe's darwin 4 aliens(cool book made into a tv special)... t2 is silly - tries too hard - so does aliens - i liked aliens when it was released - now it feels hammy - the 1st terminator is great - cameron's space ship designs in battle beyond the stars are awesome - he coulda designed some for SW
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why would intelligent culturally advanced bibedal humanoids need tails - for sex? - combat? - ten toes, three didgit hands, great low body fat titties, and a long tail - but id still bang her blue ass until the sun rises
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Nov 30, 2007 4:03:42 PM CST
4 fingers... man i cant count - she's from springfield
by jimmyjoe redsky
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Signs--Grays, only green. Dreamcather--Grays, with worm-form power. Pitch black--take Alien, make it more tadpole-head-like. WotW--redo of Independence Day creatures (which weren't actually that bad). Starship troopers--take a bug, make it huge, make it shoot stuff out of its ass (okay, the bugs were kind of cool). But as I said, a good, and by that I mean original, alien design is hard to come by these days. Yeah, it's harder than it sounds, but if we can land a man on the moon (allegedly) then surely we can do better than rehash old stuff. Maybe I'm just still angry over the War of the Worlds, in which I was expecting something fresh.
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THE THING!!! . . . the Thermians (from Galaxy Quest, seriously) . . . The Abyss aliens, King Ghidorah, The Andromeda Strain
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the alien designs weren't that bad (even though they were cartoons)
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why no articulated nipples or vulva?
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I would expect better from Cameron. If that stupid looking thing is actually in the movie, there's going to be a problem. Like Cholera's Ghost said a few posts up, there have been few alien designs since "Alien" that really did anything new. Aliens are supposed to be, you know, alien. Having evolved in an environment completely separate from earth, aliens would not even remotely resemble anything known to us (except for things like 2 eyes for binocular vision, which may be the best evolutionary solution to the problem of sight). But alas, the powers that be have to give us something we can relate to, so they come up with the cuddly shit at the top of the page.
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it's just a tall slimy humanoid (human form) with a tail - the most original thing about it - and what separates it from countless predecessors - is it's large penis like head - and of course it's piston like killing tongue - those are the features that make it so original and memorable - they were all that was really seen of it (in the first "alien") - because of those features it broke the mold - it became "jaws" in space - its a hard creature to top - but thats not to say there havent been any cool original aliens since then - i stand by my earlier list - some of the creatures i mentioned far out shine the movies theyre in (dreamcatcher, pitch black, starship troopers)
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Dec 01, 2007 1:02:19 AM CST
Alien design continued (just cuz I find it interesting)
by 'cholera's ghost
The Thing was good, didn't think of that, but that's almost as old as Alien now. And I can sympathize with JimmyJoe liking the looks of aliens in movies since, it's just that I don't think they are all that original or creative in any meaningful sense. Those aliens just don't really break any mold in any interesting way, even if they make great special effects. I'm sure if they go ahead with the cat-woman, it will look good too, but I'm not going to go "Wow, what an exciting new alien design". Insects giant-size, Grays only greener and meaner, or just big mean predators that don't stray that much from Alien just don't take the extraterrestrial thing into new territory. And I take issue with the penis head being the only fresh thing about Alien. Although it doesn't seem that fresh anymore an eyeless biomechanical alien with an extra set of brain-spilling dentures was what was needed to really put the hammer on conceiving aliens as humans in funny costumes and longer ears. What were the countless predecessors? Pretty much only existed in literature. And although it's arguable as far as "design" goes, the "idea" behind Alien was what truly made it great. That it was theoretically designed as a bioweapon was really original, allayed qualms that something so lethal could evolve naturally, and the whole thing was infinitely enhanced with the facehugger implantation scheme which was scary, brutal, and actually alien. It was a nice, tight, orignal scheme as far as movie aliens go. The fact is that alien design is suffering in unoriginality since. They just don't look or kill things as creatively, I am sad to say, and it's been nigh 40 years.
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I'm also with you. However, I quit being flabbergasted when I had not one but several otherwise geeky friends say they didn't like the original Star Wars movies. Any of them. I had to vomit, curl up into a ball, and lie shaking in uncontrollable fits on the floor of my room for several days. Of course, you can take anything in existence, and there will be people who won't like it. It's just...it's Aliens and T2, man! Aliens and T2, for the love of your heathen gods!
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I meant to type 30. Honest.
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That must be very early concept art. I don't like it one bit. Why in the world must an "alien" be humanoid to be relatable? This has unpleasant Las Vegas overtones.
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Dec 01, 2007 1:47:15 AM CST
'Cholera's Ghost, just the thought of
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
not liking the original trilogy makes my head explode. As an atheist those films are like my bible.
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now thats an image that could get me into church.
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I have full faith that the guy will once again put something onscreen that will light our imaginations and will (once again) represent a next-level jump in computer graphics believability. I guarantee it. Remember how amazed you were when you saw T2? Avatar will make your fingernails grow!
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Dec 01, 2007 2:24:01 AM CST
Holy Shit Frank Darabonts next film is ......
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
The Long Fucking Walk. YYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!
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I always thought they did, or at least they look like it.
Besides, there's more to an alien design than just looks. Alien is the first design I can think of that works like an insect, and also the first one that was an intergalactic parasite.
Unless of course you count the Starship Troopers novel or the movie The Deadly Mantis. -
I know what you mean although my reaction is somewhat different. When I hear people say things like that, I tend to black out and wake up at home on my couch with blood all over my hands and clothes. Weirdly, those people somehow seem to have vanished during my blackouts as well.
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I'm assuming the ages on this board are all over the map, cuz I can't figure out the debate on whether Cameron sucks or not. Almost every movie he's done has been a benchmark in what people do next. I remember my parents telling me how much they loved Aliens after they saw it. Every time it came on tv we'd all watch it together and say all the lines. (it was network tv, so not All the lines) I don't want to repeat what's already been said, so I suggest everyone re-read Lightstormer's post, cuz it's 100% accurate. Like him, I have the sripts that we'll never see, like A Crowded Room and the treatment for Spider-Man. I absolutely adore what Raimi did with the latter,but Cameron would've rocked the house on it too. Cryin' out loud, seeing T2 as a kid is the reason I work in this business now, man must've done something right.
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Truly there is more to alien design than looks. Just as the idea behind alien was what really made it work, if there is a good idea behind the Avatar aliens it will really enhance whatever the final design is. Despite my first impression of this design being ultimately uninspiring, I still have loads of confidence that the movie itself will own. Also, I haven't had the reaction of blacking out and woke up with the people missing (haha!), but when one of aforementioned friends said he quit watching the first Star Wars because it was "boring", it was the closest I ever came to actually killing a friend, but as he ran from me and started to scale a fence, I remembered all we had been through and, lying on my side, blasted my pistol repeatedly in the air and went "Ahhhhhh!" like Keanu Reeves.
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Yes, it's truly blasphemy, even for us atheists.
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Haha that's some good shit.
Man, I almost bought point break recently at a sci-fi convention. I wish I had, that's a good movie.
Good or bad, you do have to agree there certainly is something very James Cameronesque about that Avatar alien design. Cameron sure likes his sci-fi movies tainted blue.
I wonder if it's got a connection to The Abyss. That would rule. -
Yeah on a computer but more like a story board. When they made up Gollum or Kong they probably went through quite a few changes and it probably looked just like this (animated) till in post when they put the shell on the body. Look how real Gollum and Kong look on film. This female alien or avatar/hybrid whatever the fuck she is will look totally life like like that and better. In HD 3D IMAX. Like someone said, "In May 2009, Cameron is going to have his cinematic cock in all our asses."
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END OF LINE.
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