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Updated with words from Harlan Ellison! Many Such Journeys Are Possible!! Details On STAR TREK’s Plotline??

I am – Hercules!! IESB.net says it has learned a few key details regarding J.J. Abrams’ upcoming “Star Trek” movie from sources who gave that site accurate scoops on that film's casting. Are they spoilers or foilers? Bullet-points are cloaked in Super-Secret Romulan Invisotext just in case: * Romulans from the future find and use the Guardian of Forever (address: City on the Edge of Forever) to go back in time to kill the ruinous Romulan nemesis, James Tiberius Kirk. * Old Spock (Leonard Nimoy) then travels back through time to warn Young Spock (Zach Quinto) of the plot to kill Kirk. * When the two Spocks first meet, it is before Young Spock has met Young Kirk (Christopher Pine). * When we first meet Young Kirk, he is dealing with Starfleet’s no-win Kobayashi Maru test. Read all of IESB’s story on the matter here. As Mr. Ellison uses no invisotext below, I point out one last time: POSSIBLE,
PERHAPS
EVEN
LIKELY,
MAJOR
SPOILERS
AHEAD!!!
Remember that episode of "Star Trek: The Animated Series" in which Spock traveled back in time via The Guardian of Forever to meet his younger self on Vulcan? Good times!

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. We got an email in from Mark Goldberg that has words from Mr. Harlan Ellison himself, who wrote the original Trek episode CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER, which apparently serves as a jumping off point for the new film. I don't know if this confirms IESB's rumor or denies it, but as with anything written by Ellison it's sure a damn fine and fun read. Enjoy!

HARLAN ELLISON - Monday, November 12 2007 10:19:47 THAT STAR TREK BUSINESS MARK GOLDBERG or ANYONE ELSE: Would someone go to that site, and suggest to those people there, that "City" and all its elements EXCEPT specific Star Trek characters, belong to Harlan Ellison--author of that much-lauded episode--by terms of the Separation of Rights clause of the Writers Guild's Minimum Basic Agreement (MBA), and if Mr. Abrams--with whom I'm currently on strike--or anyone else, at Paramount or elsewhere, thinks they're going to use MY creations--whether the City, the Guardians, Sister Edith Keeler, or any other elements CREATED BY HARLAN ELLISON...they had damned well better lose the unilateral arrogance, get in touch with me, or my agent, Marty Shapiro, and be prepared to pay for the privilege of mining the lode I own. Thank you, and thank Peter David, who just called to alert me, as have you, Mark, to yet another gimmegimme grab by Paramount and the Star trek francchise that makes billions, but withholds recognition or recompense to the artists who labored in that vein. Yr. Pal, Harlan

Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    I SUPPORT THE GINCHY ON THIS ONE.

    by Pound Sand

    When did AICN become all Star Trek news, all the time. Every rumor reported. It's FANNNNN-tastic.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    First

    by xmanse

    Sooo looking forward to this film.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Invisotext only works with a white background

    by chrth

    I'm reminded of the Amazon Women on the Moon "Son of the Invisible Man" sketch.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:51 p.m. CST

    About that Invisotext...

    by idahomer

    Needs to be on white background.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:51 p.m. CST

    But...

    by xmanse

    Unsure they should be dealing with a time-travel story. It has shades of generations.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Should I be able to read invisotext without highlighting it?

    by shitstorm23

    Is this new info? Why did I know most of this already?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:52 p.m. CST

    I've added my Avatar to make the invisotext a tad more inviso

    by Hercules

    http://www.myspace.com/htstrong

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Scotty

    by xmanse

    By the way, does anyone else think, out of the pair, Nick Frost would have been a better Scotty?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Enterprise time travel headaches...

    by wowsah156

    Wasnt that storyline already used in Enterprise? Very poor showing if this time travel line comes through .

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Sounds like it could be quite good.

    by football

    But I thought Christopher Whatisface was playing Pike and not Kirk!!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Will Joan Collins be in it?

    by Zardoz

    Sounds very cool. It references the old show and it seems that there's definitely a chance for a "re-set" of the Trek universe. If it's the real deal, I like it...

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Q

    by xmanse

    To be honest, just bring Q in. Or a million other people. I thought the idea was to reboot the franchise?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Why use original continuity?

    by TheBigDogg

    And have Leonard Nimoy when the characters don't match even in personality, as we got from the Bones description and casting. Isn't that just going to completely muddy it? Either it's a reboot or it's not. Sounds like a train wreck.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Just f*&king watch it

    by Martin Hogg

    its the only new Star Trek any of us are EVER going to see again, and the idea sounds ok, when compared to a lot of the plots from the various spin off series. Take "Genesis" from TNG season seven for example, that was rubbish! I can name at least 50 episodes that were ten times worse than this idea. Bring on the new movie i say. Plus its going to have a MASSIVE budget!!!! This is what i've been wanting to see for years, imagine a star trek movie that has the same budget as all the other blockbusters, its going to be the coolest thing ever!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Ugh! More time travel?!!

    by RetroActive

    I thought this was a relaunch, not a rehash?!! BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRING!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Hello! Anybody home?!

    by BoggyCreekBeast

    Think, McSpock, think!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Starfleet’s No-Win Electric Kobayashi Maru Acid Test!

    by Iowa Snot Client

    Yesssss!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:23 p.m. CST

    There are two possibilities...

    by GreyGeek

    In my humble opinion, there are two possibilities here. First, this movie could turn out to be the typical, over hyped, re-hashed marketing oatmeal we are so often force-fed at the local megaplex. Second, “they” may finally be building the perfect nerd trap, and I will be leaving my wife and kids to go live in sin with this movie until I die a grizzled old geek (which is not far off anyway). Time will tell. But man, are we ever getting the play-by-play on the casting. Maybe we could just have a weekly Star Trek casting round-up?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    So basically it's the....

    by jimmy_009

    .... SPOILER .... .... Terminator story retold in the Trek world. Interesting.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:24 p.m. CST

    gee, this plot smacks of the familiar...

    by moondoggy2u

    Ah well, it wasn't like this film was really generating any interest for me anyway. It is still shocking that Paramount executives went right back to the Starfleet Academy well that they've been visiting for over twenty years. SA has been the fallback idea for every single Trek sequel since Star Trek 4 and these dunderheads just cannot let it go.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:27 p.m. CST

    City on the Edge of Forever?

    by kevinwillis.net

    Kobayashi Maru? I gotta admit, this sounds like this will be the first fun Star Trek movie to watch in about twenty years. I'm trying to keep my expectations low (this didn't help with the Star Wars prequels, but I'm trying) . . . but, given what I've heard, and that it's J.J. Abrams, I'm betting this will be a fun (not deep, not revolutionary) but fun movie to watch.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:32 p.m. CST

    I've got your "Kobayashi Maru" right here...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    It's called the "ADAMA ATMO-FTL JUMP MANEUVER". Suck it, Trekkers!<P>In all seriousness...another time-travel story?!?!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:42 p.m. CST

    What the fuck is wrong with time travel?

    by odo19

    You fucking morons are really starting to piss me off with this anti-time travel bullshit. It has not been that overused, only 2 movies have featured it as a plot device and it was the second best TOS movie and the best TNG movie. Even on tv there have only been about 40 time travel episodes and about 726 episodes alltogether.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Speaking of Time Travel...

    by moondoggy2u

    Did anyone else here at AICN travel back to the beginning of October? I know shuttlepod, did.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    odo

    by moondoggy2u

    The reason time travel is booed is because its been OVER-used in all the series' episodes. The last good time episode involved the finale of Star Trek TNG. Since then we've gotten nothing but reset buttons, and time story ripoffs. For that matter, there hasn't really been an original episode of Star Trek since DS9.<p>Oh, and for the movies, Star Trek 4, 7, 8, and parts of 9 used time travel.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:50 p.m. CST

    shuttlepod-i'm still scraping that memory

    by moondoggy2u

    out of me brain. I still can't believe how bad of an episode that was. Of course, with a series as banal and insipid as Enterprise, I wasn't really surprised. Shocked, but not surprised.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Moondoggy2u

    by odo19

    Fuck, I forgot about Generetions, but what parts of INS featured anytime travel.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Excitement

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I'm a big trek fan but this is something i just can't get excited about. Trek should move forward, not back. No matter how good the new cast is, there still won't be the chemistry of the originals. I'm more intrigued about the look of the Enterprise than anything else.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Odo--the part where the Baku could slow time

    by moondoggy2u

    and "live in the moment." It was some tacked-on hack job to be sure, but it did save the life of Anije in that cave.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:55 p.m. CST

    Fuck it

    by damned-dirty-ape

    Actually, as long as the women are wearing skirts that resemble belts, i'll be there.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST

    so spock, rather than travel through time himself...

    by captain_kirk

    fucks up the timeline even more by telling his past self about everything else? What needs to be considered is that we are unaware of any way that spock could leave the past until the future is restored. i have to admit, i am intrigued, although the temporal prime directive seems at play. Perhaps in a back-to-the-future like way, young spock writes a letter to young kirk telling him to wear a bulletproof vest when he jumps into the engineering section of the Enterprise B, and our last shot is of old kirk slapping spock on the back. problem--when does spock go back in time? in the st:tng timeline, post insurrection/nemesis/crapola, or post-undiscovered country pre-generations? in the earlier timeframes, of course, dr. mccoy is still alive. how will they address that? nonetheless, i finally admit i'm intrigued. I'm not sure how this idea gets sustained over a new series of films...or how it f*s up the tos continuity, but i had heard about the guardian of forever rumor before. Could be interesting. post script--what kind of guardian IS the guardian of forever if he lets any pissy-ass wuss go back and f* up time? Not much of a guard--kinda like Sgt. Schulz, if u ask me.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:01 p.m. CST

    Dirty Ape

    by moondoggy2u

    You remember how all the crews/cast members acted in all the pilot episodes of all the ST incarnations (cept for maybe the original series) were always wooden, unfamiliar with one another, and generally uncharasmatic and unsympathetic. There is a very good chance this new cast will suffer from the same problems. The only reason you might be able to relate to them at all is because you will be associating them with characters you already know. Sorry, but this really smacks of hack job.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Moondoggy

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I suppose you are right really. I guess a tight knit group like tos crew takes time to get that amount of chemistry. My point was that star trek is about going forward, not going back. Trek could have been rebooted in a future time but still have the same canon to please the existing fans.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:17 p.m. CST

    I watched first contact on youtube

    by Pipple

    Indeed it's a really good trek flick... sorta weak at the end but it begins strong and keeps your attention all the way to the finish. Now I can see why people liked the next generation.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:19 p.m. CST

    WTF

    by fookinmonkeyzod

    JJ Abrahms creater of lost is making a star trek film that acts as a sequel to one of the top 5 episodes of Trek ever, references the greatest trek movie ever and you lot are complaining??Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis were pretty much stories about baddies with huge guns - wow. City on the edge of forever was about history being screwed by saving someone, this time it is screwed by killing someone. Kirk rescues Spock in Trek 3, Spock returns the favour in Trek 11. This will be a story about history, nostalgia, friendship transcending all, this willl be the greatest Trek film ever I have every faith. For too long Trek has been about reversing the polarity or rephasing the shields. Stop whining and be grateful we are getting a film next year that will surpass all expectations. Its only being filming a week and already there are whiners and moaners who havent seen 1 second of footage or 1 page of script. Get your arses out of your hands and watch your DVD of Phantom Menace while the rest of us brace ourselves for what will be a Peter david trek novel on the big screen.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:21 p.m. CST

    I completely agree, dirty ape

    by moondoggy2u

    A new series with some new blood set farther into the future would have suited me a lot more than Trek Rehash. In my opinion, Trek has gone off the rails ever since Star Trek Generations. The TNG crew were shoehorned into Battle Trek movies rather than exploration plotlines, as was the forte of TNG, and painfully dull series like Voyager and Enterprise were the nails in the coffin.<p>Coffin is probably a bad metaphor, actually, since Trek can become good again--it just needs to go further into the future so as not to get bogged down in all this continuity minutia. Instead, however, Paramount does the opposite--Star Trek jettisons everything we liked about Trek and mires itself in the miniscule details of continuity. Given the record of Trek for hte past 10 to 15 years, though, I'm not surprised.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Spock drinks a beer and cheats on his Deathgrip

    by ThePilgrim

    Wow so Spock goes back in time and he could tell Kirk about his son getting killed and Khan and the Humpbacks and 9-11 and some bald dude named Picard and the Nexus and Price Line...

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:23 p.m. CST

    IESB is leaving out the part WHERE in time Kirk is assasinated..

    by zillabeast

    He is killed before he can set rescue the Chancellor's daughter at Khitomer. You heard it here first.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:26 p.m. CST

    Zod--that is precisely my point.

    by moondoggy2u

    Time travel, prequelitis, and the boring, minute, been-there-done-that aspect of Trek is about to rear its ugly head yet again in, brace yourself, another prequel about the unimportant days of Ensign Kirk. B-O-R-I-N-G. The movie will be filled with winks, nods, Trek Babies learning how to reverse polarities in the Warp Drive, and pointless rehash. <p>A real Trek story involves boldly going where no one has gone before, doesn't it? Yes, you are right that the TNG films were mostly rubbish, but how is this film going to be any different? Oh, I see--its cause it has Trek Babies going through classes. Yawn.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:28 p.m. CST

    zod

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I'm not making judgements, i just know better than to raise my hopes for something that could could be a big steaming turd. There's no doubt Abrahms is a talented man. MI3 was the best in the series, but his Superman script was shockingly bad. I don't envy anyone who takes these sort of chances with franchises as big as this. There's bound to be a lot of backlash. I personally don't state a films quality until i've seen it. How anyone can say a film is shit or is going to be great before it's been seen is beyond me

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:28 p.m. CST

    still digesting it..and loving it...

    by captain_kirk

    the more i think about this, the more i think that the plot has a chance. remember that scene in all good things, part ii, where an increasingly odd-acting time traveling picard looked at his crew, sighed, admitted that though they had no reason to trust him, he knew what they could achieve and asked them to trust him? (insert triumphant horns here) That's what trek was and still is about. I think it's time to accept that there will be changes, but that this movie has the potential to become the start of something great. Some of our favorite episodes are when trek continuity is screwed up. Yesterday's Enterprise. Trials and Tribblations. Let's embrace the fact that someone will be telling our stories again. Someone who is not Berman. I'm through kicking this project. Let us boldly enter ... the undiscovered country.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:30 p.m. CST

    If this is true then time line wise...

    by Yeti

    The Romulans and Future Spock are post Star Trek:Nemisis?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Agreed, ape.

    by moondoggy2u

    I'm not saying this film will be horrible, but I am saying that i've no interest in what I've read so far. Yeah, it reads like a Peter David book, but aside from Imzadi, that isn't a compliment in my eyes.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:32 p.m. CST

    an idea for kirk and the kobayashi maru

    by captain_kirk

    did anyone think that maybe the romulans would re-reprogram so that kirk actually LOSES? Imagine the shock on his face. That would be a great twist.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:36 p.m. CST

    I gotta agree with Harlan

    by moondoggy2u

    Those hacks at Paramount and those in charge of Star Trek routinely steal other writers' work. Take that Tom Paris character, who was a thinly veiled rehash of a character created by a third party. Since they renamed him and only SLIGHTLY changed the background of the character, they got to use Nick Lecarno...oops, Tom Paris, for free. There are a slew of other examples, but you guys get the idea.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:37 p.m. CST

    moondoggy

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I agree about the pointless language used in trek over te last few years. I mean how many times can you power up the eps conduits using a modulating phase variance emitter which in turn causes a fucking subspace triangulating interplexing pulse to destroy the type 4 interspacial fracture. Whatever happened to exploring something that made one of the crew go insane and then get a security officer killed

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST

    Harlan won his Terminator lawsuit against James Cameron

    by Wayne6000

    I recall a few years ago Harlan successfully sued James Cameron, for him ripping off his Terminator story premise (for the first film) from a Twilight Zone episode Harlan wrote, so Paramount should take notice of his warning. It'd be better for JJ to offer Harlan a co-writing credit.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST

    You would think Star Fleet...

    by HellKing

    would be guarding the hell out of that planet. Change the course of time... You better believe it.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:41 p.m. CST

    True, shuttle

    by moondoggy2u

    But Harlan created certain main plot points that Paramount is intending to use for its feature. Also, Trek was built upon the scripts of countless tv writers, not Roddenberry. In fact, Gene was one of the lousiest script writers around. Remeber, his idea of a Star Trek film was one in which Kirk and Spock try to stop the JFK assassination, only to have Spock pull the trigger. Oi Vey

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:43 p.m. CST

    so if i were a THINKING romulan and had access to the guardian

    by Trader Groucho 2

    i think i'd just send one suicide bomber with the frakking mother of all cobalt bombs back to about 10,000 BC earth time and blow the planet out of the galaxy. <p> the fundamental storytelling problem with using a device like the guardian, which can take you anywhere, is that, well, it can take you anywhere. i suppose it could work if the romulans trying to use the device are under some sort of time pressure - their window of opportunity to use the device is severely limited or whatever. <p> oh, and i thought there were badass starfleet types with super-duper 29th century tech keeping an eye on all these time-traveling shenanigans. <p> okay, i'm a geek too.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:43 p.m. CST

    JFK ?

    by damned-dirty-ape

    Really? That was seriously considered as a movie storyline? Red dwarf used that one, but it was JFK who shot himself.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:45 p.m. CST

    I admit -- I'm confused

    by DKT

    What the hell is Harlan Ellison talking about? What site? What City on the Edge of Forever stuff (aside from what Quint pointed out)? I like Trek okay but apparently I'm missing something...

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:46 p.m. CST

    LOL, ape.

    by moondoggy2u

    For me, the best Star Trek TNG "movie" will always be "All Good Things..." An actually interesting and previously unexplored aspect of Time Travel, a deft use of Q, character exploration, bare minimum use of treknobabble, and some top-notch acting by Stewert and DeLancie. That was the definitive TNG movie for me.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:47 p.m. CST

    it's a way to connect all these characters

    by zooch

    before they are assigned to the enterprise without disturbing continuity.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Can't JJ just figure something else out...

    by Heckles

    Seems like characters in Trek can't help but end up time traveling one way or the other. If he wants to use a plot device then he should pay for it.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Yep, Ape--really

    by moondoggy2u

    Worse, Gene proposed the film EVERY TIME a new Trek film was being proposed after ST:TMP. Gene reportedly despised all the Trek films save for the original one he "wrote." There are dozens of other examples of the guy's lousy plotting that I won't go into, but he did have a few good ideas in him, thats for sure.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:50 p.m. CST

    this one HAS to be good

    by zooch

    It has an even number.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:51 p.m. CST

    lol, zooch.

    by moondoggy2u

    wait...eleven is odd, isn't it?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Sweating

    by damned-dirty-ape

    I wonder if all the characters in this movie are going to be constantly sweating and have a line of light going across their faces to highlight their eyes, like they had in TOS. You look at any of the old episodes, they were always sweating like hell

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:54 p.m. CST

    shuttlepod--thats not the whole story.

    by moondoggy2u

    Get this, when he heard about Star Trek 4, his response to Paramount and its writers was something to the effect of,"Alright! I'm glad to see you guys getting back to Star Trek. However, I dont think they should be going to the eighties. What they need to do is go to 1963.." I'm only SLIGHTLY paraphrasing, shottlepod--i'm not kidding.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Wayne 6000

    by Tal111

    It wasn't a Twilight Zone episode it was the Outer Limits...lemme see your Geek I.D.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:56 p.m. CST

    wait nevermind

    by zooch

    I lost count. It's DOOMED!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:59 p.m. CST

    DKT- Ellison wrote that episode

    by Heckles

    ... he came up with the Guardian and all that. If the new Trek film uses the Guardian then he wants to get paid.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Outer Limits, not Twilight Zone

    by Freeluna

    Harlan's lawsuit against Cameron involved an Outer Limits episode entitled "Soldier" starring Michael Ansara. The opening sequence of a dark, rubble strewn wasteland with death rays passing overhead was used by Cameron in "Terminator". If I were Harlan, I would have sued, too!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Not true, Rubiks

    by moondoggy2u

    Paramount does indeed owe him residuals and acknowledgement of his contributions if they use his Guardian. Again, this is why Brennon & Braga had to rewrite the Nick Lecarno character for Voyager--they didnt want to pay royalties.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:03 p.m. CST

    If Spock can go back in time

    by Darth Busey

    to warn young Kirk about a threat on his life, he can go back to warn old Kirk to watch out for Malcolm McDowell. I'd bet money that the movie ends with the timeline changed and a Shatner/Nimoy reunion.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:04 p.m. CST

    I heard this rumor MONTHS ago...

    by mparke2

    Seeing as I heard this was the plot months ago, I'd say it's true. Glad to see Spock will get both sequel and prequel treatment.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:07 p.m. CST

    There were a couple of TNG Novels that used the Guardian

    by chrth

    Did Harlan get royalties for those as well?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:10 p.m. CST

    If Spock can go back in time...

    by Tal111

    he can go and warn Kirk that he's going to get super fat.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:11 p.m. CST

    ohhh, i see, rubiks.

    by moondoggy2u

    Sorry, I thought you meant he wasn't owed money, either--I appologize. You are absolutely right.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:13 p.m. CST

    JFK

    by Trader Groucho 2

    was used in an ep of the New Twilight Zone in which a future historian so fascinated with JFK goes back in time and winds up taking the Prez's place in the limo, beaming JFK to the future where he takes the historian's job - teaching 20th century history.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:13 p.m. CST

    odo19

    by odo19

    Anybody see the interview of Harlan Ellison at Trek movie report.com, the dude looks and sounds just like Joe Pesci when hes angry. NO JOKE

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:16 p.m. CST

    go back and read ellison's tv guide interview about city on the

    by Trader Groucho 2

    shatner counted lines, and was upset nimoy had more dialogue than he did. <p> i love actors.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:17 p.m. CST

    So...

    by Bobo_Vision

    ...basically, (spoilers) its like the Terminator, only its James Kirk instead of John Connor...and Old Spock instead of Reese, talks to young Spock instead of Sarah. But, does Old Spock make out with young Spock?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Odo--what do you mean by that?

    by moondoggy2u

    Are you saying Harlan is here to do Pesci impressions for you? I he here to act like some impressionist for you? Is he Frank Caliendo to you? Does he make you laugh? Is that what you mean? Huh? What are you trying to say?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:18 p.m. CST

    If Spock can go back in time

    by Trader Groucho 2

    He can go and warn Uhura not to do the GILFy feather dance.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:20 p.m. CST

    If Spock could go back in time

    by moondoggy2u

    He could beam that little goblin of the wing of Big Jim's plane.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Anchorite

    by Trader Groucho 2

    I'm guessing work for hire, as to my knowledge Jerome Bixby (Mirror Mirror, aka Spock has a beard) never saw a dime for all the alternate universe stuff Trek did on DS-9 and then on the Enterprise two-parter. And what about whoever wrote Space Seed?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Didn't Uhurua bang Roddenberry?

    by moondoggy2u

    Of course, I supsect The Great Bird hit some of that Tasha Yar, too. How else can you explain her presence in TNG?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:24 p.m. CST

    If Spock can go back in time

    by Trader Groucho 2

    He can go and warn Jim to NEVER EVER sing-speak Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:24 p.m. CST

    God Bless Harlan!

    by tensticks

    If anyone wants a REAL look at the dark and ugly side of STAR TREK, you only need read the introductory essay to his CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER script book. It hasn't made me hate STAR TREK, but it's certainly changed my perspective on it. Every TREK fan (or hater!) should read it. Does Harlan have rough edges? Absolutely, though he was very nice to me when I met him. Is he a genius regardless? Without question. Read it.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:25 p.m. CST

    moondoggy2u

    by Trader Groucho 2

    rumor has it, and this ONLY rumor, that uhura, being the communications officer, was fairly open at the time to intercourse. but it was the 60s. everyone was talking with everyone, ya know?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:26 p.m. CST

    So, Harlan created the stone time donut

    by aboriginal

    Don't forget to go after James Cawley for a piece of that 'Trek pie. Even patents run out after 14 years and its been 41.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:28 p.m. CST

    First pic of Spock from IESB

    by IAmJack'sUserID

    http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=13226514&posted=1#post13226514

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Don't FUCK with Harlon Ellison !

    by Pipple

    Ooooooooooohhh someone's fittin for a beat down...

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:28 p.m. CST

    If Spock could go back in time

    by moondoggy2u

    He'd travel back to Star Trek 4 and inform the crew that since Scotty was in aboard their ship, no one needed to travel back in time to snag a whale.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:28 p.m. CST

    oops its harlan

    by Pipple

    Sorry mr. ellison. don't send me angry letters please.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:31 p.m. CST

    wow, that does look quite a bit like Nimoy.

    by moondoggy2u

    Is that a legitimate picture?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Sooo,,. Old Spock meets Young Spock?

    by samurai sark

    I don't think this story is entirely true. If they wanted a true-to-canon prequel, then Pike, Bones, McCoy, and others should be cast much closer to their original characters, which they are not. (New Bones is described as younger and much more action-y than Old Bones, New Scotty isn't a dark haired, sqare jawed uber-hunk like Old Scotty, New Sulu is Korean, etc.) Smells like teen spirit to me...

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:37 p.m. CST

    What an asshole. Awesome.

    by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World

    Everybody loves an asshole these days.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:38 p.m. CST

    If Spock can go back in time...

    by Tal111

    he could warn the entire crew that Mr Sulu is gay....but that there's nothing wrong with that.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:40 p.m. CST

    HOLY SPOCK-CRAP!!!

    by samurai sark

    That fucker looks just like Nimoy! Excellent link Jack's ID! Thanks a ton ton ton! Damn, I really hope this leaked info is foilers. I also hope New Kirk lives up to Old Kirk. Sylar set the bar pretty high on the resemblance scale. Awesome

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:42 p.m. CST

    If Spock could travel back in time

    by moondoggy2u

    he could catch reruns of himself on the boob tube.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:42 p.m. CST

    JJ, here's what I want for x-mas....

    by samurai sark

    ...please give me some way of having a Nimoy/Shatner reunion! Please?! I was robbed in Generations. I know Kirk always believed he'd die alone, but I really really really want to see the Shat and the Moy onscreen in character (rather than priceline commercials)

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:48 p.m. CST

    What has Ellison done?

    by Tal111

    Been involved in more lawsuits than Scientology.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:52 p.m. CST

    Careful there, Tal--you might just get sued, too

    by moondoggy2u

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Old Thumbsucker Ellison is upset. Get over it!

    by Monkey_King

    If his story was made into a TREK episode, then it's canon and also open to interpretation or reinterpretation. Paramount owns the rights to the series and film series, that includes said episode and it's storyline and characters. What kind of bullshit is Thumbsucker trying to pull? Does he want cash? Not like he's going to use the money to make himself younger or put himself in cryo stasis so he can bitch about his royalties 30 years from now. Let the poor guy make his movie and shut the Hell up.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Wait, am I allowed to use Ellison's name in daily speech?

    by moondoggy2u

    Or is that his property, too?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:57 p.m. CST

    My Cousin Harlan

    by samurai sark

    Hey Nero, you're in the City-on-the-Edge-of-For-Fuckin-Ever. You come from Romulus. You're tryin' to kill a good old boy. There is no way this is not going to trial.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 6:58 p.m. CST

    moondoggy...

    by Tal111

    expect a phone call, I just got one! Is he a scientologist? I was afraid to ask.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:01 p.m. CST

    GoodHarlans

    by samurai sark

    Who the fuck cares? I'll sue JJ. I don't give a fuck. What is it, the first asshole I sued? Not the first time I sued an asshole. I'll fuckin' sue an asshole. Where are the shovels?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:01 p.m. CST

    by samurai sark

    Frankie, Frankie, Frankie. What the fuck does 528 have to do with 460? I can't believe this guy. Fuckin' 528 ain't even close to 460. Now what the fuck does that got to do with anything?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:02 p.m. CST

    by samurai sark

    You know Chekov, you're a fuckin' mumbling stuttering little fuck. You know that?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:03 p.m. CST

    If Spock could travel back in time...

    by Tal111

    do you think he'll let the cast know that in the future Star Trek will suck and that Battlestar will be the show to watch?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:06 p.m. CST

    JUST SLINGSHOT AROUND THE SUN AND BE DONE WITH IT!

    by TallBoy66

    Yeah, seriously, just use the Star Trek 4 method to time travel if there's too much complaints about The Guardian (which would be neat to see again, though).

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Harlanisms continued

    by moondoggy2u

    So, you know how long it took you to time travel because it takes you 5 minutes to make Romulan ale. Well, how come it takes you 5 minutes when it takes the rest of the romulan-ale drinking world 20 minutes to make romulan ale? Perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist upon your stove! Was this MAGIC ale? Did you buy this ale from the same place jack got his beanstalk beans?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Time Travel screw-ups 101

    by moondoggy2u

    Why did the borg travel back in time after slogging through all those starfleet vessels when all they had to do was time travel FIRST AND THEN traipse on to Earth?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Time Travel screw-ups 102

    by moondoggy2u

    Why did picard take Kirk back to the time JUST BEFORE Soran shot the nova rocket when he could have just travled back to the time when they encounter soran for hte first time. Then, picard could order Worf and Ryker to forgo the stun setting and head right on into Kill mode.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:19 p.m. CST

    You DO NOT want to piss of Harlan!!!

    by Batutta

    Check this out-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:20 p.m. CST

    Hey, dwarf, there are at least 70 online places...

    by JackPumpkinhead

    ...where your works can be obtained for free. How does that make you feel? Although I suppose the major question needs to be: why would anyone *want* to touch anything with Ellison's name on it?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Hmm...this plot still seems familiar

    by DarthFloyd

    Let's see...plot to go back in time and eliminate the Captain of the Enterprise...check...major battle occurs...check...guest appearance by other cast member...check. Oh yeah, I remember: Star Trek the Klingon Experience in Las Vegas!!! At least that one is a motion simulation ride, and for some extra $$$, you can get your picture taken on an actual bridge and poke around a bit. Come on people, if you really wanted to do something different with the franchise, Peter David's Excalibur series would be a better choice (good luck getting Ashley Judd back as Lefler though).

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:28 p.m. CST

    The plot and Harlan

    by The Yellow Kid

    I think there is an issue with Harlan and the rights to "City". Pretty famously, there are two scripts out there. Harlan's original, which won a Nebula, and the one used to create the show, which is a rewrite. Under the WGA rules existant at the time, I think Harlan has a case. Beyond that however... This movie is going to have to be amazing to overcome this already tired plot.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Besides...

    by DarthFloyd

    If you were a Romulan wanting to dispatch Kirk, there are other options...Eradicate the Enterprise going after the Romulan vessel from "Balance of Terror" (Conversation would go something like this...Future Romulan:"Your about to deal with a Federation Starship named Enterprise who will defeat you, but here are some really nasty future weapons that will destroy the Enterprise with one shot. Long live the Empire!" OR "There is a planet that some hippie humans named Eden. It's not a nice place, but it is in our space. Starship Enterprise will arrive at this Stardate, make sure you have enough ships to take it out" OR "If Kirk tells you the Enterprise is going to blow itself up, keep firing until you are sure there is nothing left to self-destruct" OR (Finally) "There is NO VULCAN DEATH GRIP!!!"

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:31 p.m. CST

    More Gangsters!

    by Aquatarkusman

    I want to see 193-year-old Nimoy in a longshoreman's outfit with ear-covering wool hat!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:33 p.m. CST

    Why Kill Young, Virile Kirk?

    by Aquatarkusman

    Why not kill one of Kirk's grandfathers when he was a baby? Save us the FUCKING TIME!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Moondoggie... Interesting points... BUT..

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    "exploration plotlines, as was the forte of TNG" Are you serious? The Enterprise D only went "where no one has gone before" maybe five times in its entire run. And all of those were by accident or because someone else(Q for one) dragged their asses out there. TNG's forte was doing milk runs in already charted territory.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Of Course, should Spock go back, he could warn himself of the fo

    by DarthFloyd

    Hello younger version of me, here are a few things you should watch out for as you travel with these humans. First, don't volunteer for secuity postings...they always end badly. Second, when a ship named Reliant comes at you with its shields already raised, raise yours BEFORE they lock phasers. Third, your half-brother is an idiot. Forth, your father will eventually forgive you for joining Starfleet. Fifth, dad is right about Senator Pardek...he's going to sell you out. Sixth, tell James Kirk to let his half-wit replacement jury-rig the navagational deflector. Last, the incriminating uniforms with Klingon blood will be in the officers's mess, in a ventilation shaft. Can't miss them, they're white with Peptol Bismol sploches. Your replacement is the one who puts them there and kills the assassins. Live Long and Prosper - Your Older Self.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:48 p.m. CST

    I wish they'd cover Harlan Ellison in invisotext...

    by MrMysteryGuest

    :P

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:48 p.m. CST

    Oh, and about DS9..

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    Moondoggie, you are right to praise DS9. But it's no secret that the last four seasons of DS9 happened because of Babylon 5. Long story arcs, broader scope, space battles with more than 5 ships at a time, etc. Not to mention many 'borrowed' lines (such as "That's an awful lot of ships.") and even borrowed titles of episodes. So at it's best (yes, the last four seasons of DS9 were definitely some of the best Trek ever) DS9 was less than original. Lots of fun to watch, though. And very re-watchable, moreso than 95% of TNG.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:49 p.m. CST

    exploration includes more than space, stunt

    by moondoggy2u

    And yes, I am serious. TNG had waayy more exploration plotlines than TOS, where the show quickly turned into battle of the week plots and costume shows (gangster land, wild west land, etc.)

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:56 p.m. CST

    J.J. is not that talented a story teller.

    by greenstyle92

    Mostly, he's from the modern "Mega Ultra Plot TWIST!!!MIND FUCK!!!" school of writing. Shymalan by way of Joss Whedon. And twists aren't that great usually. From the way things are shaping up, it's not a straight reboot, but more like a Crisis storyline. Romulans try to fuck up history. Spock tries to unfuck up history. Spocks efforts lead history to being fucked up anyway. So basically, it IS a reboot. Just connected to the original by way of alternate timelines. Ho-hum.<br> <br> I hope Ellison manages to totally derail this thing, or force Paramount to cough up a couple a hundred thousand dollars for the rights.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    You crazy guys, a different trek would not have gotten

    by messi

    the budget, the cast or the director. putting back Kirk, Spock and McCoy enured all that. think like a producer but it's star trek the original with a twist.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 7:58 p.m. CST

    Plot won't work because Starfleet's temporal

    by Grammaton Cleric Binks

    agents from some timeship such as Relativity will notice the changes, and stop the Romulans before they start. By the way, if Romulans are so smart why didn't they just do this in the TOS or TNG. Suspending canon (or is it cannon) aside, it sounds somewhat intriguing.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8 p.m. CST

    Let's do the Time Warp again- LMFAO

    by Grammaton Cleric Binks

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfx8Nc6VKnI

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8 p.m. CST

    The script that Harlan himself wrote...

    by Zeke25:17

    ...is not the property of Desilu-Paramount; it's the ORIGINAL version that was returned to him. According to the "separation of rights" clause in the WGA's Minimum Basic Agreement, that version of the script is his, he owns it, that's it, the end. Thus, any elements FROM that script that were used in the version that was ultimately televised...he deserves credit for. And if this is the best JJ can come up with; well...who the fuck is gonna cough up ten bucks to see THAT?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:04 p.m. CST

    Shuttlepod...

    by Zeke25:17

    So...all those hundreds of thousands of words he's put out since the sixties, all those awards he's won, all the accolades he's received despite most people believing him to be a cranky asshole...not creative enough for ya?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:10 p.m. CST

    leave time travel to The Doctor

    by lynxpro

    ...and I don't mean the hologram one from *Voyager*. Besides, I thought Picard destroyed all of these time portals back in *TNG*. I hope Harlan hammers them big-time. He should hold out for a few million plus the demand that Ryan Reynolds plays young Kirk.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Did anybody else think of Comic Book guy...

    by qweruiop

    when reading that harangue from Harlan. All that surly geeky sarcasm. I think he was the inspiration for that character. Uh-ho, now he's going to go sue Fox, Matt Groenig (sp?), Microsoft (since the character was undoubtedly scripted on a Windows-based PC), and the US government for allowing this to happen. Happy suits Harlen. You're the reason contingency lawyers are a bane within America's judicial system.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:17 p.m. CST

    JJ's Superman Script in *Smallville*...

    by lynxpro

    Call me crazy, but it seems like elements of JJ's kraptacular *Superman* script is ending up being adapted into this season of *Smallville*. I swear that Department of "Domestic" Security agent is going to be revealed as a Kryptonian, just as Lex was in JJ's script.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Proof he is an ass.

    by badboymason

    Just like Alan Moore - he may be a "genius", but why isn't his first reaction a simple inquiry to Paramount stating his legal case without the hyperbole and self-promotion. While Moore may be only slightly deranged, Ellison always sounds like, and is, an egotistical prick.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:20 p.m. CST

    It's going to be good guys

    by i.baronvladimir

    the star wars prequels sucked so much it's easy to be cynical bout any big sf rehash, but everything about this project looks cool. there are a dozen huge movies coming out in 08 and look how many talkbacks are about trek 11 - it's going to be huge, and good.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:25 p.m. CST

    Spock Just Came Back In Time To Tell Me...

    by thelordofhell

    This movie is going to suck and make maybe 60-70 million TOPS at the box office and Star Trek will never be seen again on any screen.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:27 p.m. CST

    Harlan less powerful than the Nation estate

    by lynxpro

    Sheesh, that Terry Nation Estate always seem to have the BBC by the ballz when it comes to the Daleks. The writers in the UK seem to have a lot more power proportionately in terms of their creations. In terms of the Whoniverse, the BBC has to negotiate for usage of the Daleks, the Sontarans, K-9, and a plethora of other properties.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:27 p.m. CST

    Harlan Ellison's Guardian of the City on the Edge of Forever

    by Ivan_Mtl

    Let me just preface this by saying that Harlan Ellison is one of my all-time favorte writers. I remember very vividly reading my first Ellison story in school ("Repent, Harlequin!" said the Tick-Tock Man) and being completely enthralled. Later, I eventually discovered that he also wrote the original story for one of my favorite movies, "A Boy and His Dog"... two of the best episodes of the original Outer Limits ("Soldier" and "Demon With A Glass Hand"), and my favorite episode of Star Trek - the award-winning "City On The Edge Of Forever." Oh, as a Canadian, I also have to mention a series that Mr. Ellison would rather forget, The Starlost (whose concept had me glued to the television set). Anyway, I was lucky enough to meet Mr. Ellison at a comic book convention a few years back, and he did not disappoint. I think he is a truly genuine guy, obviously very intelligent on numerous subjects, and extremely funny. Having said that, I fear that he may find himself in a similar situation as did comics legend, Jack "King" Kirby. Everyone knows the contributions he made to Marvel Comics (hell, he basically almost created their entire line of comic book characters single-handedly), but he was never able to enjoy the financial rewards of the company's success because he worked under a "work-for-hire" agreement. I am sincerely hoping that this was not the case for Mr. Ellison when he worked on the original Star Trek series, but I suspect it may be the case. The reason I do so is because I recall an episode of the Star Trek animated series that featured the Guardian from "City On The Edge Of Forever." The episode had Spock travel back in time to Vulcan during a ritual that he underwent as a child. There, he met his parents, and we finally saw the "teddy bear" (albeit with huge fangs) that was once referenced in the original live-action series. If Mr. Ellison was not financially renumerated for that episode, then I can't imagine he will be for this new movie's plot device. Besides, couldn't the film's writers simply have the Romulans travel back in time like the crew of the enterprise did aboard the Klingon ship in Star Trek 4? To paraphrase Ricky Bobby, " just go fast!"

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Spock also told me....

    by thelordofhell

    that "The Ballad Of Bilbo Baggins" is going to be remade by Smashmouth and put in the new "Hobbit" movie directed by Michael Bay.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:31 p.m. CST

    Moondoggie.. Costume shows...

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    True, TOS devolved into too many costume shows. TNG did the same thing in the holodeck- over and over and over. If TNG had more exploratory plotlines than TOS, it was only a few more. Which is a shame, considering TNG had many, many more episodes. And yet, they only actually explored unknown space a few times in the entire run. If it wasn't for Q and Barclay screwing up, oh, and that time curious aliens pulled them outside of charted space... Only a handful of truly "where no one has gone before" episodes. Far more costume shows in holodecks, or Klingon costume shows, or diplomatic missions. Which was damn frustrating considering what a long run that show had. BTW, Moondoggie, you've made some great points throughout this talkback- kudos.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:43 p.m. CST

    ZOMG!!!! TIME TRAVEL AGAIN ... WOOO HHOOOOO!!!!!!

    by BringingSexyBack

    This must be the special 500th time travel story we've been anticipating for years. Thank you JJ!!!!!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST

    WHY DIDN'T THEY GO BACK IN TIME AND KILL HITLER?

    by BringingSexyBack

    and play the winning Mega Ball numbers and buy Google stock?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Hey, dont forget to pat yourself on the back, stunt

    by moondoggy2u

    And I do agree about the holodeck episodes in TNG (although, if you'll note, the lion's share took place during the first two heavily roddenberry-influenced seasons. I aint saying that TNG was scott free in the raspberry department, its just that I really enjoyed the more heady trek just as much as the ballsy original trek. Of course, I'm a huge fan of the Picard character as a whole, so maybe that helps?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 8:59 p.m. CST

    By the way, Stunt,

    by moondoggy2u

    it was funny you mentioned The Nth degree episode--i was thinking that the moment you brought up TNG's involuntary explorations. Spooky!<p>There were other exploratory episodes, though, that occurred of their own volition, but you have to keep in mind that drama requires exterior forces, so there really isn't much room to maneuver in writing. Still, I still stand by my conviction that TNG was more exploratory in nature. Hell, Picard was every bit the captain of exploration, moreso than Kirk, I would say. Not to say that Big Jim didn't have his own highmarks, it was just different. Also, I think the acting was superior in TNG, but the origional crew had a lot more penache and chemistry. In my view, I think both shows were on equal footing when it came to level of love, respect, and intelligence.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:01 p.m. CST

    Harlan Ellison is always angry

    by Sick Fixx

    He's a seriously disagreeable fellow. He even argued with Penthouse Magazine because they insisted that the g in God should be capitalized for grammatical reasons and he fought with them over that, if tou can believe it. Still, that's what we all love about Harlan.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Really, Sick? He bitched about capitalization?

    by moondoggy2u

    Pomposity knows no boundary, does it?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:05 p.m. CST

    Isn't this Terminator 2...but this time with pointed ears?

    by Alice Cooper Stalker

    Isn't that the plotline for Terminator 2? This is targeted at Sci-Fi fans. Why steal the plot of another key film milestone in sci-fi history? A film and plotline we would know well. Maybe Old Spock will have a line something like, "Come With Me If you Want to Live."....or the Romulans will say, "I'll be Back."

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:19 p.m. CST

    ST:29th Century TIme Cops

    by captain_kirk

    Look, if the muscles from brussels shows up in the movie, i'd find it modestly amusing. other than that, the time cops aren't perfect. they'd sense a disturbance in the force, butthat doesn't mean they would act on it as fast as spock could under time constraints. also, do we even know if spock knows about the 29th century timecops?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Harlan Ellison will rape you

    by Pipple

    Rape you like in prison.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:25 p.m. CST

    i feel for ellison

    by captain_kirk

    heck, he created the single most influential episode of science fiction television ever. but maybe a fat chunk of money would smoothe over the studio whoring? paramount can't afford negativity from the establishment on this one, and probably should have asked nicely first. cool that peter david was involved.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Nothing wrong with time travel

    by badboymason

    but it was never the MAIN POINT of Star Trek. The way to reboot Trek is to "explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and civilizations". Kirk, Spock, McCoy and a ship find a wierd planet/race and some shit happens. A time travel, reality crossing, Romulan plot is not the way to bring the masses back to Trek.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:51 p.m. CST

    badboymason

    by odo19

    the last time we had a movie about exploring new planets and civilizations, with new bad guys we had never seen we got Insurrection.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Thank you, badboymason!

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    NEW worlds, NEW life, NEW civilizations. Places that have NO reference in a database. "Where NO ONE has gone before." Writing the drama should be no problem. Conflict can come from previously UNKNOWN exterior forces. And it would be a huge success if done well.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10 p.m. CST

    And just to clarify...

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    I was not saying that Insurrection provided anything new- I got badboymason's point that it was just rehash. Hence my thanks. I don't expect anything really new in the Star Trek universe for years, if ever. They don't have the guts to really explore.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Very good point, Stunt

    by moondoggy2u

    Star Trek as a franchise is stalled and no one seems to want to do anything new. I'm a die-hard TOS and TNG fan and even I am just sick of all the new incarnations, crappy films, and poor leadership. Of course, that is what you get when a franchise has to many cooks in the kitchen: banality.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:05 p.m. CST

    Shuttlepod_10, I'm guessing you never read David's IMZADI

    by SpyGuy

    Which, coincidentally, also featured the Guardian of Forever. An awesome book by Peter David, even if he does have waaaaaay too much of a man-crush on Harlan Ellison.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:05 p.m. CST

    err..TOO, not to. damn typos.

    by moondoggy2u

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:20 p.m. CST

    Harlan "sues-a-lot" Ellison

    by Bot-Bot

    Yes, Harlan Ellison is a great writer. He is also the world's angriest man, and would sue you at the drop of a hat. Odds are he's the victim of yet another rumor spun out of control.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:27 p.m. CST

    Indirectly ties in with Enterprise (the series) FutureGuy?

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    JJ Abrams doesn't have to spell it out exactly in this movie, but it sure sounds like he is hinting that there could be a connection to the FutureGuy character in the Enterprise series (who was never revealed). So FutureGuy used the Guardian of Forever?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:43 p.m. CST

    I thought Harlan Ellison was dead

    by rsswope

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:47 p.m. CST

    I love Ellison, he's such a kvetcher.

    by AnnoyYou

    Also, he's totally litiganous, so Abrams had better watch his step. I mean it -- when faced with someone even touching his stuff without his permission, Harlan is like a dog with a bone. That said, if these are actual plot points for the new movie, I call stupid. And hackneyed. How many times did successive ST franchises use similar storylines? About a thousand. Jesus. So much for the "all new re-imagining of the story."

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:51 p.m. CST

    I can't stand Ellison. I can't stand Time Travel.

    by NoDiggity

    Really, the "Guardian of Forever" episode is one of the worst Star Trek episodes. Why is everyone so geeked out about it? It's overly sentimental, it's illogical to the extreme, the Guardian of Forever device is a super lazy Disaster-Ex-Machina, with no explanation for it's existence, without even any sense to it's name (it's a Guardian, (of the timeline?) but it's sole purpose seems to be to let idiots jump into the past and mess that timeline up?). Peter David's "mancrush" on Ellison is contemptible. Why, before he's discovered all the facts, would he go tattle to this hypertensive, egotistical blowhard, and risk him having a stroke over it? I hope Abrams just write the Guardian out of the script, and replaces it with a Cthulhoid guardian of a wormhole or something. <br> Fanboys, justify that "Guardian of Forever" episode as being the best ever episode of Trek. How can you?

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 10:58 p.m. CST

    Somebody up there mentioned the phlebotanum

    by phool2056

    That is the biggest problem with Star Trek in general. I love the shows, really every one of them, except I've never seen an episode of Enterprise, but anyway, most episodes are resolved by some new, unheard-of combination of multisyllabic nonsense words intended to sound science-like being put together, at which point everyone stresses out and maybe someone has to pull a fancy lever. I understand that the target audience after a while consisted entirely of engineering students with complete schematics of every ship in the fleet, but I like my phlebotanum to facilitate the story, not dictate it.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 11 p.m. CST

    You forgot to mention...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    1. Young Spock mind-melds with Old Spock, thereby letting him know EVERYTHING about the future. -and- 2. Old Spock dies in the past, in the arms of Young Kirk and Spock. Good stuff.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 11:02 p.m. CST

    Ellison can blow me.

    by Babba-Booey

    FUCK ALL THE UNIONS, FUCK THESE PRETENTIOUS WRITERS, AND FUCK THESE CAPITALIST DOUCHEBAGS IN HOLLYWOOD. SOCIALISM NOW!!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 11:04 p.m. CST

    Oh...and...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...young Spock realizes that he should change NOTHING (a sub-condition of the Prime Directive), but we learn at the end of the film that old Spock and old Kirk both live and appear at the end of the film. You heard it here FIRST!

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 11:12 p.m. CST

    The reason you can't kill Kirk's Grandpa...

    by Bobo_Vision

    ...is because Kirk's Uncle cured cancer. And you can't kill Baby James Kirk, because Baby Kirk gave the chicken pox to Flurg in Trek DayCare, and Flurg died of complications. Flurg was going to be a tyrannical dictator who kills millions. This will all be explained in the movie in one hour of pure exposition.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    yawwwn

    by slkboxrman

    sounds horrible, and im so geeky when it comes to trek i can name alot of episodes of next gen from one scene alone...rehashing the guardian of forever is lame, and the romulans using it to go after one man, kirk, boring....first contacts plot made more sense in the fact that the borg were targeting the most important man in star trek history....without cochranes warp flight, no first contact with the vulcans, and hence no age of peace and prosperity and technology and no federation...why go after kirk ? why the romulans ? why not the klingons, hasnt he irked the klingons alot more ? maybe its the great, great, great ,great grandson of the romulan in the cloaked warbird played by mark lenard...cmon....and what future are we talking when they say "romulans from the future" ?? the 24th century, 23rd , or 25th or up ??....ughhh.....from a big time star trek fan, sounds lame as hell.... stop going backwards ....didnt enterprise prove that dont work... go on with next gen or do a DS9 movie..... or even something original but still in the 24th century or later ....stop with the kirk and spock fixation people....i grew up with the original series and im saying it...kirk is not god, and william shatners hair is not real ...get over it

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 11:52 p.m. CST

    "They arrested Harlan Ellison!" "Good."

    by stop_saying_things

    MST3K ("Mitchell," episode 512, 1993) once again nails it.

  • Nov. 12, 2007, 11:58 p.m. CST

    Hey Harlan!

    by RetroActive

    Grab another double frap skim mocha latte and enjoy your biscotti while you stomp the yard. Growing babies need their energy after all...

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 12:04 a.m. CST

    I used to be a Jet-Ski instructor...

    by Galilee

    I have instructed people on how to use them and which ones to buy for the past 20 years. I now want my compensation from Kawasaki.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Time travel? This don't look good

    by Ruthless Berserk

    I got a feeling the entire production will be dogged by the issue and it is just going to be one huge monumental goat-fuck. Nimoy said it is a great script, but he may just have been seeing dollar signs at the time.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 12:44 a.m. CST

    How 'bout something like

    by Ruthless Berserk

    This snotty, wise-ass whipper-snapper Jimmy Kirk lands command of the Enterprise under dubious circumstances (a la Kobyashi maru) and finds a planet with dancing women, and cheaply dressed actors in make up (cuz it's so TOS-like). He swaggers around like Napoleon drunk on his own power.....wait, that's sacriligious. .....he meets up with a bunch of space pirates, and then fights the space kraken..no wait, been done......seriously we get back to old Trek, some weird unexplored planet with creatures that Kirk has to fight by hand, save the pretty yeoman, shoots his phaser, and whips out his communicator....aren't those all the necessary ingredients of classic Trek? Basically basic Trek is Man meets the unknown on the final frontier, and he's aboard a ship with his friends and it has a very cool military feel. Time travel??? Do something different!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 12:53 a.m. CST

    Interesting. So this could reverse Kirk's death in Generations.

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    If the spoilers are true, then maybe Shatner is keeping mum about making a cameo in the closing scene of the movie. If Young Spock knows the future through Old Spock, then he can prevent Kirk's needless (and lame) death in "Generation". ... If Harlan Ellison threatens to sue, then they should tweak the script and maybe tie the time travel gimmick to the Enterprise series. The whole time travel thing is played out and over-used in the Trek movies and shows, of course, but if they're doing this time travel thing in this reboot movie, they might as well stick with another already established time travel arc (the Temporal War) if they cannot use the Guardian of Forever.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 12:54 a.m. CST

    Rubik's Tool - NOMEKING EXPLAINS IT ALL

    by NomeKing

    Okay, here's the dilly-o. The separation of rights agreement applies to the WGA since the 1950s. So the asshole that thinks the Desilu Contract matters is barking up the wrong hound. Under that agreement, the creator of a teleplay owns the rights to put on a stage version or to publish the actual screenplay or to make a feature film out of it. For example, the guy who wrote a TV movie like "Death Car on the FreeWay" could make a feature out of it. Except Tarantino stole the idea (again) and called it Death Proof and put the Weinsteins out of business. As Peter David says in between Hot Pockets, I digress. This also means that Glen Larsen can make a Knight Rider movie for The Weinsteins (if they were still with us) because he created the characters and show and wrote the pilot. BUT, NBC can and is making a TV show so that screws the movie up the blowhole. NOW, what the Cranky Midget Ellison is claiming is that separation of rights allows the guy who created Cousin Oliver in the last season of Brady Bunch to go make a feature out of him. Is this true? NO. Ellison has the rights to publish his script ad inifitum (and has) and to never publish Dangerous Visions 3 even though the authors continue to die off, but the rights to some peripheral characters on a well known show would not be his. This is NOT like Gaiman creating Angela for McFarlane. Indeed, if this WERE the case then Harlan could contact Sideshow Toys and commission a Guardian model post haste. He hasn't and he can't. Remember, this is the guy who recently sued Fantagraphics because they pointed out he didn't pay his bills for a previous lawsuit that an interview he did caused. The only author I have EVER heard of who had a club form made up of haters, the ENEMIES OF ELLISON. Who sued AOL because some dipshit was putting up his short stories. The only thing he really wants to do is sue the Lord for making him short. But he cannot. He creates this myth of being for the working stiff, but believe you me, he'll sue you in England ala Tom Cruise if he thinks it will get him 5 more minutes of notoriety. Or he'll tell you the story of how he sucker punch some old guy back in the 60s. Ah Harlan, god bless ya. (the preceding is a work of opinion -so the Nomeking don't get sued)

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 12:55 a.m. CST

    Larry Ellison writes books?

    by SkippyFlipjack

    <i>hm.</i><br><br>didn't know <a href=http://www.google.com>that</a>.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:05 a.m. CST

    If they can't use the Guardian, use Enterprise...

    by Prof. Pop-Cult

    Assuming that Eric Bana is the bad guy, all they would have to do is tweak the script just a little to include a throwaway line where we learn that Bana's Romulan character has already been hopping around time and that he first attempted to prevent the formation of the Federation. (They could have a couple of Suliban henchmen standing silently by him in a scene or two.) But since he failed at that, his next plan is to kill young Kirk. That's all they would need to do to alter the screenplay. Mainstream audiences wouldn't get lost or confused by this, and fans of Enterprise would be thrown a huge bone -- finally revealing who FutureGuy was (Bana's Romulan). I say if Ellison threatens to sue, then drop the Guardian of Forever as the time travel device and do this instead.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Shatner is lying

    by reflecto

    He's been in the movie from the start and he's laying it on thick publicly. I've always thought so.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:55 a.m. CST

    if spock were really logical

    by dr.bulber

    he could go back thru time and keep the episode "spock's brain" from ever being written.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:02 a.m. CST

    Atta Boy, Harlan- kick some ass

    by Laserbrain

    God, this movie sounds fucked. The Kobaiyashi Maru now? I really needed to see that, JJ, coz I don't have an imagination of my own. Kinda like yourself.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:35 a.m. CST

    That episode is one of the best T.V. moments of all time...

    by Kirbymanly

    Nothing more be said. Kirby out.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:40 a.m. CST

    moondoggy2u

    by Trader Groucho 2

    exactly!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:46 a.m. CST

    prof pop-cult

    by Trader Groucho 2

    the only bone paramount threw trek fans with enterprise was a giant spiked ungreased bone up the bum. <p> well, except for that two-parter where hoshi becomes empress of the mirror universe.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:46 a.m. CST

    prof pop-cult

    by Trader Groucho 2

    the only bone paramount threw trek fans with enterprise was a giant spiked ungreased bone up the bum. <p> well, except for that two-parter where hoshi becomes empress of the mirror universe.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 3:02 a.m. CST

    Voyager was the BEST!!!

    by DOGSOUP

    Hahaha made you bitches look.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 3:05 a.m. CST

    Mission Impossible 3

    by kwisatzhaderach

    was crap. Not much optimism that Abram's directing will have improved 100% in the space of a couple of years. Plus, anyone that goes around calling themselves JJ clearly can't be trusted.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 4:54 a.m. CST

    I'm going forward in time 7 minutes

    by Iowa Snot Client

    to watch the original, non-HD, GGI and gluten-free series on TV Land. 6 a.m., baby!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 5:47 a.m. CST

    See?

    by geodesigns

    Paramount showing it's true corporate colors. Pay Harlan what you will owe him for his ideas. I have grave concerns over companies like Paramount. In other words-- Paramount you fuckers-- PAY UP!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 6:04 a.m. CST

    ...and

    by geodesigns

    ... the Paramount employee who is in charge of being the "story intellectual property editor" should be fired for letting this slip by. Now, Paramount will have bad press over this, and they'll need someone to blame "for not advising JJ" of the legalities of Harlan's creations. Paramount fuckers.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Why do they need the guardian?

    by I Dunno

    When any asshole can go back in time just by slingshotting around a star?

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 7:51 a.m. CST

    ...so then Young Spock says to Old Spock:

    by TheNorthlander

    "Dude, is this kinda thing gonna happen a lot on this ship?"

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 7:52 a.m. CST

    I Also Think Shatner Is Lying!

    by BojTrek

    Ever since he has said "no I am not in it" and "I would never do a cameo" and "it makes bad business sense"... all that garbage... I started to think... he is trying to trick us and will appear at the end of the movie...

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    geodesigns

    by TheNorthlander

    Absolutely, man!<br> Harlan should sue Paramount's asses, and then, until they pay, refuse to direct The Hobbit!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 8:26 a.m. CST

    Normally I'm pro-creator, anti-corporation.

    by rev_skarekroe

    But not in this case. Ellison writes a good story, but there's nothing I like seeing more than arrogance getting a beatdown, and Ellison personifies arrogance.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Why don't they just call it Time Trek and get it over with?

    by Dave Bowman

    Another movie, another two hours of space exploration ignored.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 8:28 a.m. CST

    And somebody needs to fix this site.

    by rev_skarekroe

    It sure would be nice to actually be able to READ the Talkbacks and not just look at the subjectlines and imagine what people might be saying to each other.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 9 a.m. CST

    Shatner Cameo

    by Ruthless Berserk

    Actually they might not have the budget to put him in, it would require liposuction and creative use of angles to make look anywhere near CK from TOS. They could however spend a million dollars to create a very lifelike CGI Kirk, this way they would only need his voice. Think about it...

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 9:27 a.m. CST

    When will people realize...

    by grendel69

    That JJ is a hack. A complete and total hack. And Paramount stopped caring about Star Trek a long time ago. Hated Voyager,hated Enterpise more and this sounds terrible. No interest at all in this from what Ive been seeing. Sigh. Its just sad. I agree with the Time Trek comment. Do we really need another film about time travel???

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 10:34 a.m. CST

    godzilla's rearend and harlan elison..

    by ironic_name

    both are giant assholes.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 10:38 a.m. CST

    harlan created walking - b4, ppl just stood around

    by ironic_name

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:01 a.m. CST

    So my post was deleted...

    by idahomer

    Gee, I quoted this yesterday. But no credit for finding it first. Oh well.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Da Smackdown of Da Century!

    by Kid Z

    Harlan Ellison Vs. JJ Abrams! Damn... I really sorta feel sorry for JJ Abrams... bitch is gonna be TOAST!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Rev_Skarekroe, It's Firefox's problem. IE works.

    by NoDiggity

    Of course, it might be the site's problem too, but IE doesn't have a problem with it.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:18 a.m. CST

    Wait, now it doesn't work for IE either. Weird.

    by NoDiggity

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Don't care for Trek time travel.

    by fiester

    Too confusing and convenient. Except for that long gone plotline for the original movie about a reptillian race going back in time to destroy human evolution. That was cool.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Could somebody tell me how residual works...

    by qweruiop

    to a writer when their work isn't copyrighted, patented, or trademarked by said author. In Harlan's case he simply wrote the script and implemented an original idea that is rightfully credited in his name, but the overall script, and it's characters and ideas, are copyrighted by Paramount pictures. Otherwise wouldn't that create a pandora's box of legal issues then anytime somebody writes a new character/location/idea for a TV show, and then this aspect is further used in other episodes.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Clearing the Cache helps fix it in Firefox (Tools, Clear Private

    by NoDiggity

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Spock travels back to the 21st century..

    by DoctorTom

    ...where he helps Denny Crane, who has just taken on Harlan Ellison as a client to sue Paramount over creator's rights. I like Harlan and his work, but I have to admit he'd fit in very well in a Boston Legal episode.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 12:06 p.m. CST

    * * * SPOILERS * * *

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    1.Young Spock mind-melds with Old Spock, thereby letting him know EVERYTHING about the future. -and- 2. Old Spock dies in the past, in the arms of Young Kirk and Young Spock. Good stuff. Oh…and…young Spock realizes that he should change NOTHING (a sub-condition of the Prime Directive), but he disobeys orders. We learn at the end of the film that old Spock and old Kirk both live (due to decisions by young Spock along the way) and BOTH “appear” at the end of this film. Old Kirk is not “seen,” you simply see a silhouette standing in the doorway as Old Spock is reflecting of his actions, which are now part of his memories, but you hear Kirk say, “Are you coming, Spock?” “I’m on my way, Admiral.” This is the current plan, and you heard it here FIRST!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:07 p.m. CST

    what is wrong with this talkback?

    by moondoggy2u

    I can't read anyone's subject lines. ERRGGGGG!!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Lyrics to the song "It's Dead Jim" by Warp 11

    by warp11

    This song talks about how Star Trek is dead. It the last track off the album by the same name by Warp 11. <p> First they took my TOS Then they took my TNG Said “bon voyage” to Voyager Now there’s nothing left for me <p> Decommissioned DS9 Now there’s no more Enterprise Erased the animated show Yeah, she met a quick demise <p> The final frontier has been finalized There ain’t no coming back It’s getting no reprise It boldly came and went Got no Trek to represent I never thought the day Would come that I had to say It’s dead Jim <p> Space is cold and so am I Just like Kirk my show has died Everything has gone awry I guess it’s time to say goodbye <p> ‘Cause Scotty’s gone and so is Bones They took their final voyage home And I guess I’ve always known That some day I’d be alone <p> Tore down the sets today Gave the plastic ears away Sold the props on eBay Left my life in disarray <P> It’s dead Jim Until they bring it back again <p> Warp 11: http://p202.ezboard.com/bwarp11bb

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:18 p.m. CST

    I like the plot

    by zooch

    This is the first TOS Star Trek movie in a while. It is the first film involving Leonard Nimoy's Spock since The Undiscovered Country, which is always a good thing. And the film serves as a flashbacks into the lives of young Kirk and young Spock. Sounds good to me.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Is this guy bitter????

    by Samuel Fulmer

    or does he have a point???

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Teh Shat should have a cameo in the end...

    by vezner2007

    IMO.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Believe me...

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    ...this movie will be FANtastic! JJ Abrams is a huge sci-fi fan, and will make Trekkies and non-Trekkies proud! He is not making another Next Generation crapfest. Instead, he is making an EPIC film based upon a really good story. The story, from what I've heard, makes several references to Wrath of Khan without being too "preachy" or "in your face" about it. Don't worry about JJ using the money to simply make a good FX film. Abrams is focusing on creating a poignant, well-acted film of epic proportions. He just has the opportunity (for the first time in regards to Trek) to spend $170M on the film (with over $100M going to sets, fx, and plot devices). This will be the Star Trek film of all Trek films, and the one by which all other Trek films (and most other sci fi films) are judged!!! CAN'T WAIT!!!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:48 p.m. CST

    can you build some sort of rudimentary lathe?

    by ironic_name

    by grabthars hammer.. what a savings

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:51 p.m. CST

    harlan sued a total stranger who said "so sue me"

    by ironic_name

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:53 p.m. CST

    he created sue-yu, but prmnt renamed him sulu

    by ironic_name

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:54 p.m. CST

    so he sued paramount

    by ironic_name

    with a paralegal.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:56 p.m. CST

    he cut himself shaving, and sued himself 4 injury

    by ironic_name

    a boy named sue

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 1:57 p.m. CST

    There's no need to cover this whining dolt in invisotext...

    by JackPumpkinhead

    If you just cast your eyes above the level of your knees, you won't notice Ellison, anyway.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2 p.m. CST

    he had to pay himself $500 in emotional damages

    by ironic_name

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:02 p.m. CST

    ellison: "what would you say to a little fuck?"

    by ironic_name

    TALL WOMAN: "hello, little fuck."

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:05 p.m. CST

    They better contact Ellison, cause

    by Reel American Hero

    That sounds like a good plot, and it would be kind of cool to see the Kobyashi Maru test scenario.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Kobayashi Maru Acid Test SPOILER

    by irrelevntelefant

    jj changed it for the movie- it's going to be the "dance-dance kobayashi maru test"<p>SKITTLES!!!!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 2:47 p.m. CST

    White screens are way better than comments

    by TruPhan

    Because Ain't It Cool's news stories are the major draw around here anyways...

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 3:17 p.m. CST

    I canna change the laws of whitescreen physics

    by moondoggy2u

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 4:30 p.m. CST

    LOL@ Harlan calling someone arrogant.

    by SG7

    ...seriously. He's like the God of Arrogance.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Put me in with the "tired of time travel" crowd

    by 5 by 5

    This is an over used plot device. I'm not slamming the movie, but damn folks. This is intellectual laziness.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 4:54 p.m. CST

    One way "Guardian" could work for me:

    by kabong

    At the end of this retcon, Kirk can emerge from the Time Gate and say, "Let's get the hell out of here," and the Guardian says that everything is as it was. <p> That way, the REBOOT gets RESET without damaging the canon.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Deus ex machina Redux

    by flossygomez

    If this is true, someone should be tried for crimes against cliched plotlines. ENOUGH WITH THE DAMN STAR TREK TIME TRAVEL ALREADY! It's been done TO DEATH! So does this mean that after Kirk and company leave the Gaurdian planet that it's not fiercely guarded as an off limits planet to everyone? HIGHLY improbable. It makes Talos 4 look like Wrigleys Pleasure Planet for Gods sake!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST

    It's the fucking Cookies causing the White Space!

    by NoDiggity

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 6:29 p.m. CST

    I agree with Ellison, a great writer, but...

    by jorson28

    It was a work-for-hire situation literally forty years ago, so though I do think Ellison should receive recognition and some residuals IF it's true, I think he's being a bit too indignant a bit too early about the whole thing, especially considering that, to my knowledge, Paramount hasn't announced that elements from "The City On The Edge of Forever" will be used in the film, let alone be a major part of the plot. 'Seems like Ellison should hold off until the news has been OFFICIALLY released and has a bit more weight to it before getting this riled up, at least outside communiques between he, his agent and the studio, i.e. in any public forum. Frankly, I'm hoping the rumors are false because, as a plot, it seems a bit anti-climactic for such a big event picture relaunching a major franchise.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 7:01 p.m. CST

    I don't like it

    by Joe Gonk

    Recalls the plot for the Lost in Space movie.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 7:37 p.m. CST

    Ellison tried to sue Frank Sinatra, but Sinatra shot him!

    by MrMysteryGuest

    It's true! Sort of! :P

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 8:21 p.m. CST

    I have no lawyer, but I must sue!

    by ironic_name

    a boy and his litigator<P> The Beast that shouted "I'll sue!" at the Heart of the World

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 8:23 p.m. CST

    lets form a class action against whitescreen o doom

    by ironic_name

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 8:45 p.m. CST

    by Grimjack99

    Unca Harlan is the wind beneath my wings? Or is that just gas? Either way, hope Paramount doesn't screw him over.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 9:09 p.m. CST

    My plot is better

    by owlsoup

    Romulans use the Guardian of Forever gateway to come back in time to 2007 and hand JJ Abrams a script for a failed TV/movie franchise, which opens with Romulans finding the Guardian of Forever gateway and... no wait... Romulans come back in time to 2007 and tell Harlan Ellison that Paramount is looking for an original idea, hoping to begin a writers strike and economic collapse of a major first world nation... no wait... Romulans come back in time to 1966 and plant a genetic clone of Gene Roddenberry who can actually write... no wait... Romulans come back in time and steal William Shatner's toupée -- yes!

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Harlan vs. the Brain Robbers (producers who shamelessly steal id

    by NoHubris

    ...is a much more interesting saga than this current incarnation of Trek IMHO.

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 9:14 p.m. CST

    meant to say "steal ideas, plots, characters)

    by NoHubris

  • Nov. 13, 2007, 10:57 p.m. CST

    TIME TRAVEL KILLED STAR TREK.

    by uss cygnus

    It's a joke. It's moles on "24". It's absolutely ridiculous. SEE: Voyager-Year of Hell. Enterprise-Temporal Cold War...yadda yadda yadda. This is SO sad they had to resort to the Time Travel card. My god...time travel has become easier than going down to the 7-11 to get nachos...*head on desk* Mommy, make it stop.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 12:22 a.m. CST

    Romulans with foreheads?!

    by thevision

    The Romulans are from BermanBraga's 24th Century so they'll have the fucking foreheads! Romulans were the coolest villains in Trek, physically identically to Vulcans but never embraced Surak's philosophy- read Diane Duane's "The Romulan Way." I wrote "were the coolest" because fucking BermanBraga attached fucking foreheads on them!

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Nomeking

    by Sick Fixx

    All good points. Not to defame all Jews (they are God's People and not as bad as Muslims), but he is Jewish.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Joe Gonk

    by Trader Groucho 2

    Thanks for bringing THAT up. I could have gone my whole life without another Lost in Space reference.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 3:12 a.m. CST

    Sick Fixx

    by The Seaward

    I can only assume you are being sardonic in your remarks?

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 3:34 a.m. CST

    No, I'm serious

    by Sick Fixx

    Jews are God's Chosen People. Muslims are bad. Harlan IS Jewish. Whaddaya want from me?

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 6:18 a.m. CST

    You green-blooded freak!

    by Trader Groucho 2

    Have we learned NOTHING from Star Trek?

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Gotilk, your "argument" makes no logical sense

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Regarding this whole, "[t]he person who would go out and buy my bike docu-drama is not the same person who would download it -- it never is" crap, that is just as WRONG as it can be.<p>You seem to be making some pseudo-intellectual defense of theft of "bike clones" not being ACTUAL theft when it clearly is. See, the deal is, Gotilk, the creator you envision has still got the "IDEA" of his bike and can produce more copies for sell, but he can never sell those copies of his "bike idea" to YOU or anyone that YOU subsequently GIVE copies of the "bike idea" to. What is so hard to understand about that?<p>And regarding your whole "the person who'd steal/download the 'bike idea' is never the same person" concept, I've just got to say, WRONG again. And, sir, I speak as a "bike idea" thief.<p>I used to spend a TON of money purchasing old used copies of DVDs from Blockbuster and Hollywood video and on the internet. Scads of cash, in fact. Now, likely as not, I'd end up with some real clunkers and also, likely as not, I'd wait till the vid store had, like, a 4 for $10 sale, but the point is that I BOUGHT the videos.<p>High speed cable connection to the internet and bittorrents have ended that. Now, I download just about everything. I can't remember the last time (maybe a year or two ago?) that I PAID for a new video or even a used one. I have more than 200 gigs of vids on my computer (most of them avi-sized, mind you), all kinds of movies and whole tv series. I literally have HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of burned copies of downloaded (that's STOLEN, gotilk) videos.<p>Do I think it's wrong? You betcha. I'll admit it. I'm a thief. Or sharer. Whatever. The fact remains that I am STEALING those vids, the intellectual property, the COPYright. Notice the emphasis of COPY? Copyright defines who owns the right to COPY the property.<p>You say that you can "still sell, rent, or otherwise license [your] film about [the] bike to anyone [you] wish" and that's plain-as-the-nose on your face, logically WRONG. You can't sell it to ME whether you want to or not because I already got it from my 1,000,000 bittorrent buddies.<p>It's not "de-valued because it's the norm?" What does that even MEAN? It's atrocious gobbledy-gook. What's "the norm?" Stealing bikes? Or copies of bike ideas? Maybe to you and me and our bittorrent buddies that’s “the norm,” but to writers and artists and those who slave over scripts and rewrites and such, it is NOT "the norm."<p>You make these odd assertions about one who'd download a movie NEVER being someone who'd buy it, but you make ABSOLUTELY no attempt to back that OPINION up. I can, however, back my opinion up with a combination of personal examples and statements and the undeniable fact that, as file sharing and the like have expanded, DVD sales, as a whole, have dropped. You think that those two facts are somehow unrelated?<p>And you OBVIOUSLY haven't thought this through in any way, but a pseudo-populist, death to the corporations, keep the internet “free” way. Certainly not thought it through well, anyway.<p>You say that we should "still protect our copyrights and intellectual property," but offer nothing besides a silly, little defense of Ellison suing movie producers as the "right way" as opposed to suing those who file share.<p>How is Harlan Ellison suing producer who use his ideas any better or different than producers and studios suing file sharers who ILLEGALLY (and IMMORALLY, I might add) upload, download, copy, and distribute protected material? HOW?<p>That makes absolutely NO sense, whatsoever, unless you come into this whole debate with the idea that nothing YOU ever do is wrong because the internet is, like, “free” man and you can’t, like, own an idea, man, and corporations are, like, evil, man. They like pollute Mother Earth and, like, war is not good for children and other living beings, man.<p>PUH-fucking-LEEZE!<p>Please make it clear to me (and others) why file sharers and “bicycle idea” thieves shouldn’t be sued, but Harlan should sue Paramount for using an idea that he sold them years ago.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 11:19 a.m. CST

    The idea that thieves shouldn't be prosecuted...

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    Because they'd never have purchased the stolen property anyway is stunning, to me. Absolutely stunning. Whether or not someone "would have" purchased someone's property (a candy bar, bicycle, car, movie, or cd) is irrelevant. The fact is that they DIDN'T purchase the property and the RIGHT to possess that property (thereby, obtaining it LEGALLY) is the pertinent fact. If I steal a bicycle from a bicycle factory, the factory owner might still have an inventory. He might still be able to make another bike, but the fact is that I have not purchased the right to possess that bike (or movie or cd or whatever). It's just that simple. A grammar school kid could've explained this in the 1950s. How is it that the "intellectuals" don't get it today? How, in the digital age, did we all get so much more information yet so much stupider?

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Yeah, fuck the writers

    by Sick Fixx

    Fuck them in their stupid asses. I don't give a flying fist fuck about their extra four cents. They should get second jobs like the rest of us struggling to get by. All I care about is that Lost and Prison Break probably won't be back at all over this bullshit. The longer they try to hold Hollywood hostage, the better the chances for our favorite shows just drying up, the sets being dismantled, actors moving on. The longer this melodrama goes on, the more time is lost to get back to normal.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 2:20 p.m. CST

    about enterprise

    by slkboxrman

    someone earlier had mentioned that enterprise seasons 1 and 2 as the best and i agree..... its funny how some can say that this plotline is good and not like the whole concept that enterprise had going the first 2 seasons....the main complaint against enterprise was that it did not follow event by even that the geeks wanter to see....i think people missed the whole point that the whole concept was that someone from the future was altering events in the star trek timeline and seriously messing things up...the suliban interfered in many things, chasing a klingon to earth, preventing the enterprise from exploding...i still believe that in the original timeline the nx-01 exploded and the nx class was abandoned..it would be the only explanation why there was never any mention of the nx-01 as the first enterprise...thus i saw the only way to end the series and restore the timeline was for the crew to become aware that the only way to restore the true timeline was to sacrifice themselves, perhaps even in a final conflict with future guy, ala "year of hell" on voyager...i think that fans overobsessed with seeing the birth of the federation complained too much, made the producers drop the whole "alternate timeline" story and ultimately killed the show...the last episode was so horrible i actually wished they would have just said that "enterprise" was a holodeck simulation... the star trek novels that actually tried to incorporate the nx-01 as if it was there the whole time were laughable .... so again....how does romulans from the future trying to kill kirk make any sense at all...i never knew that kirk was the bane of the romulans, the klingons for sure, but the romulans ?? and using the "guardian" from city on the edge of forever, lame , lazy storytelling ...they should really go back and give next gen a decent final movie or 2...personally i loved all the next gen movies ......not lookin forward to or caring about this at all.....

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 2:21 p.m. CST

    Can't wait for Christmas 2008!

    by ccchhhrrriiisssm

    'Nuff said!

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 3:28 p.m. CST

    file sharing

    by Trader Groucho 2

    The content providers have been shooting themselves in the foot on this one for years. <p> In the music world, ClearChannel bought up a ton of frakking radio stations and then programmed them to put absolute crap in high rotation (because the major labels paid for play, and don't pretend they don't), thereby drying up mainstream radio as a reliable source for a variety of interesting new music. Then they notice people downloading music (gasp!) and respond by suing the people who they've alienated as customers. <p> There are studies that show that people who download more music "illegally" also happen to be the same ones who BUY more music. <p> What the music industry still needs to figure out is that their customer base needs a better way to sample online before they buy. They have an inkling they need to do something, but they still have the RIAA out there menacing potential customers. A LOT of podcasters have responded by telling the RIAA to eff themselves sideways, and play only truly independent artists (along with artists from a handful of companies that have figured out there's this cool new way to reach customers and create fans). <p> On the teevee side, a lot of folks still haven't figured out why it's wrong to torrent "24" when they broadcast the program over the public airwaves. I would have to put myself in this category. Some broadcasters have wised up and are now offering some or all of their content free on the Net with ads you can't fast-forward through. As long as they purposely don't degrade the video quality in comparison to watching on the television set, it's a good content delivery option for them. <p> Movie distributors face a different quandary. They perfected a tiered release strategy to milk dollars down a long line - theatrical release, DVD/pay TV, cable, broadcast TV, "director's cut" DVD reissue, so on. The Internet, to use Mafia terminology, is fucking with the natural order of things. <p> IMHO, Apple's got generally the right idea on delivery of this type of content. The one thing they could do is allow more variability in pricing structure. Some studios may like the idea of Amazon's Unbox better, but many consumers are wary, as their contract specifies that their software can search your hard drive and destroy suspected "illegal" files (software glitch = huge lawsuit). Netflix's "instant viewing" is also unimpressive, as it relies on the stability of the Internet connection. If you're engrossed in a movie, the last thing you want is a random pause, along with the ability to only pick up where you left off. <p> As with music, the studies show people will pay for movies if the pricing structure is reasonable and the delivery system is consumer-friendly. For the studios, parsing the law and engaging in draconian enforcement tactics will only drive customers away - the very customers they rely on. To their credit, some studios and TV broadcasters seem to have picked up at least some of the right lessons from the music side. Others (NBC/Universal?) may have to learn the hard way.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 3:35 p.m. CST

    marijuana laws vs bicycle thievery

    by Trader Groucho 2

    Maybe a better touchstone is marijuana laws. A huge percentage of Americans have at least tried pot, even though it's illegal. Perhaps the continued illegality of a substance which people know from experience is comparable to or possibly even not as bad as booze has generally degraded public respect for the law in general as well as the politicians who pander to a now slight majority on the subject of pot laws by denying minority rights. <p> And perhaps this general lack of respect has spilled over into other areas, for example, "illegal" downloading. And perhaps the content providers have muddied the waters themselves by insisting that content they provide free by broadcast over the public airwaves is illegal to download via the Internet using BitTorrent or other file-sharing programs.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 4:51 p.m. CST

    lost in space was good

    by ironic_name

    in parts, especially lacey's parts.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 4:52 p.m. CST

    badboymason - "Proof he is an ass"

    by mbeemer

    Ellison's been in this business, and fighting these battles, for something like<p><p> 50 YEARS<p><p> so I'm gonna cut him some slack on not "being polite" with some studio suits who are ripping him off - again - and that he knows aren't going to admit it or settle anything without a lawsuit or the threat of one. What some might call arrogant or ornery I call jaded by long experience.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 5:20 p.m. CST

    For real, gotilk, that's the best you can do?

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    I would like it to be that simple and, according to U.S. and international copyright law, it IS that simple, my friend. You can diddle about with techno-babble buzzwords from now till the cows come home, but you're defenses of theft are just that - defenses of theft.<p>Just because the entertainment industry is faced with a new technology that produces a new COPY of their work product at the touch of a button doesn't in any fucking way mean that somehow THEY'RE the Philistines.<p>Nobody in the entertainment industry is "DEMAND[ing] a LAW be passed to outlaw or restrict this new innovative machine [the computer]!" You can do with your computer whatever you will EXCEPT ILLEGALLY DOWNLOADING AND COPYING the work product of others which should be paid for.<p>The moviemakers "design" IS his "cash cow" and EXACTLY what they ARE trying to protect. You, me, and bittorrent file sharers ARE COPYING HIS BIKES, his "design" and exactly what he made.<p>Look at it in a way that maybe even someone with an obviously limited intellect could understand. Forget the computer and digital. Forget VHS tapes. Forget Beta.<p>Imagine that it's the 1960s. Studios send out VAST reels of movies to be displayed in theaters.<p>Now imagine that you (like us digital file sharers) have figured out a way to cheaply copy that reel. You decide to make LOTS of copies and GIVE THEM AWAY.<p>You never paid for the first one (you worked in the theater to make the copy). Your friends never paid for viewing their copies. The studio and the writers and the actors NEVER got the money from all the single or repeat viewings that you and your friends got to you invented the "reel copier."<p>That seem fair to you? That seem right?<p>Is it the studio (or the writer, director, or actors) fault or even problem that you learned how to copy cheaply and then proceeded to copy their work product and distribute it to all your friends?<p>You haven't invented a machine that MAKES movies. You've invented a machine that copies OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY then gives it away without compensating those people.<p>Look, dude, it's REAL simple. It's illegal to take a book into a Kinko's, copy it multiple times, send it to all your friends, and NOT reimburse the author. It's wrong and it's illegal WHETHER OR NOT Kinko's gives you free, easy-to-make copying ability.<p>You're still copying someone else's work and distributing it without recompensing the authors of the work (studios, writers, directors, and actors).<p>Movies, TV and music do not "ignore obsolescence." Movies, TV, and music are not obsolete! No one has "innovated" movies (in this context).<p>Information is now exchanged, primarily, digitally which has enabled digital THEFT of COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL to be easier.<p>Just cause a car door is left unlocked, hell, just cause the keys are left in the ignition does NOT mean that, because the owner failed to get an alarm, YOU get to STEAL the car!<p>That car, that movie, that tv show, and that music belongs to the ARTIST until YOU PAY FOR IT.<p>Just cause you CAN steal it, doesn't make it the producers fault that they didn't stop you.<p>Fuck, man!

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 9:25 p.m. CST

    atta boy, gotilk

    by moondoggy2u

    I've been stealing my books from the library (and returning them, natch) for free for years. I guess the bycycle sharer would feel better if I simply deleted my songs when I was done copying them. Just to add some fuel to the fire, does he remember when production studios tried to outlaw VCRs because they felt that the recording option violated their copyright protection? <p>The fact is, if I loawn a recorded copy of a program to a friend for his personal viewing, I violated our country's copyright protection laws. The problem with this, however, was that no one was ever prosecuted because EVERYONE did it and it only involved perhaps a dozen programs. Today, however, computers allow us to do this on the order of millions upon millions of programming.<p>Personally, I cannot buy into the argument that digitally copying a song is THE EXACT SAME CRIME as bike/wallet/car theft. Why? Well, because many websites and programs that these production companies offer will inject spyware into your hardware and sift through your hard drive to find out if you are doing something illegal. Now, are they really have the right to install hidden cameras and radio listening devices on a cd that I bought at Wally-World? According to our constitution, they cannot, but in the world of computers, they are. Obviously, there seems to be one set of rules for our coporate friends and one for us consumers.<p>Arguments for or against file sharing aside, the genie is out of the bottle and there are only 2 ways in dealing with the imp: litigation (which has clearly alienated and enraged fans) or embracing the iTunes forumla. Judging by the infamy that has resulted from the former and the obvious success of the latter, the awnser is pretty clear.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 9:29 p.m. CST

    That second paragraph

    by moondoggy2u

    Was supposed to begin with, "In the 80s, legal reactions were different to the sort of piracy that occurred. The fact was...yada, yada, yada."<p>Sorry, guys, but i was in the middle of spell checking and re-editing that mess of a post. sorry.

  • Nov. 14, 2007, 10:23 p.m. CST

    Star Trek: 90210 aka Star Trek S.O.S aka not again!!

    by Mr Incredible

    S.O.S meaning Same Old Shit.They have screwed the pooch so badly with this show that it's getting the point of not caring. New writers, new directors, new concepts? Nah--let's just pull out time travel again. This movie will be wanted as much as Back To The Future Part Four.

  • Nov. 15, 2007, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Universal gets fuck you money from Microsoft for

    by Trader Groucho 2

    every Zune they sell, specifically because they made the argument that people are going to use it to listen to stuff they steal. So if I buy a Zune, and Microsoft is paying Universal for the music I "steal", then isn't that a purchase of the music???

  • Nov. 15, 2007, 5:38 a.m. CST

    gotilk

    by Trader Groucho 2

    i brought up marijuana only within the context of it being a ridiculous law that is widely flouted. that the law is on the books still leads to otherwise law-abiding citizens engaging in criminal behavior. <p> the one guy who was sorriest to see the repeal of prohibition was al capone. when booze is legal, you don't need speakeasies and booze runners and all the inflated prices and violence that goes with it. <p> clearly at the time prohibition was passed it was the will of the majority of americans. as a constitutional amendment, it had to make it through 3/4 of the state legislatures. what the law did was unfairly trample on the rights of a significant minority of americans, who responded by rebelling against the law, by simply not obeying it. <p> every argument the women's christian temperance union made against alcohol you can make against pot. and all of the unintended consequences of criminalization are the same. most important for my example, a large number of people are conditioned to disrespect the law and those who enforce it because frankly, the law is frakkin' stupid. <p> it's quite for disrespect for one law to bleed over to the law in general, as well as those who enforce the law. and i haven't even touched on the racial component of selective enforcement. <p> hence, i theorize, there are people who scoff at copyright law because it comes from the same fine upstanding leaders who brought you the laws against marijuana. <p> and the companies begging for better copyright enforcement are doing themselves no favors by insisting that material they gave away over the public airwaves should be paid for just because it's being delivered to a personal computer. <p> paramount, to their credit, has allowed the fan show star trek: new voyages to go forward so long as nobody starts charging for the episodes. <p> for these companies to survive in these turbulent times, they're going to need more of that kind of thinking (as opposed to the shutting down of the buffy sing along events).

  • Nov. 15, 2007, 5:41 a.m. CST

    it's quite common for disrespect....

    by Trader Groucho 2

    and it's quite common for me to skip typing a word on occasion.