Movie News

UPDATED!! Toshiba & Wal-Mart Pre-Empt "Black Friday"!! HD DVD Players Become WAY More Affordable, But For This Weekend Only!!

Published at: Nov. 3, 2007, 10:53 a.m. CST


Merrick again...
Hey Merrick, Just a rundown of the HDDVD player sale, as it stands right now. HD-A2 Walmart was selling them for $98 today. Best buy price matched, then sold out quickly. Cruchfield followed, then sold out quickly. Circuit City was late to the party, and dropped late today, but "only" to $129. Still some available as of right now. http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Toshiba-HD-DVD-Player-HDA2/sem/rpsm/oid/169466/catOid/-12872/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do ALL of these players qualify for the 5 free HD-DVD by mail in rebate, found here: http://download.sears.com/misc/5Free_end022808.pdf NOW, Best Buy has dropped their price on the HD-A3, the "successor" to the HD-A2, to $199. NOT ONLY does this player qualify for the same 5 free mail in rebate, but it includes "300" and "The Bourne Identity" in the box with the player. Not only that, buy Best Buy is offering 2 free HD-DVDs of your choice with the purchase. Say... Transformers and Batman Begins? Or whatever else you like. So yeah. $199 gets you the newest player and 9, count 'em, 9 HD-DVDs. The deals are incredible, and we're only 1 week into November! If you use this, call me Damed.


ORIGINAL REPORT FOLLOWS...




Merrick here...
So, I'm sitting here trying like hell to find a 4GB refurbished iPhone. Problem is, between the price point, overall demand, and the fact they've been discontinued...they're damn scarce. DAMN scarce. The one place I found that actually had one? Sold out AS I was placing my order. That's kind of fucked up. Any ideas? TELL ME, PLEASE! Apologies for the digression...I had to vent. So, I'm sitting here looking for an iPhone when Monki from AICN Games IMs me with a bit of new about HD DVD. Then an e-mail from a reader sends the same information. Then another. Then another. Etc... So, I guess we'll go here. I have grave misgivings about posting this information - the eternal (and self-destructive) Blu-Ray/HD DVD feud gets a lot of play here on AICN, and the mere reference of either format seems to get folks' blood boiling. None the less...this was too significant to pass up. If you haven't heard by now, Toshiba & Wal-Mart have dropped the price of Toshiba HD DVD units dramatically. Like...they used to cost several hundred dollars, and now they'll cost around $99 a unit. This is effective TODAY. This arrangement is planned to last through the weekend only. You can learn more HERE. I've never had any direct experience with Blu-Ray, thus I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on the format war one way or the other. However, I do have an HD DVD unit & I've always been tremendously happy with it as a whole...although I acknowledge there's room for improvement in some areas. At the end of the day, I'm something of an HD superslut. If the television image in front of me is even 75% "passable" HD, I get to feelin' funny in certain places and HD totally has its way with me. I just thought some of you out there may like a heads up about this; it'll be interesting to see how this weekend plays out. Part desperate effort to get some dust-gathering units off the shelves & into people's home theaters...part Alpha-Omega Bomb aiming to punch a hole in the Blu-Ray empire, this is an interesting move (for better or worse). Big thanks to the folks who wrote in about this.

BTW: I'm hearing indications that Best Buy and/or Wal-Mart may also be offering free movies with this sale. I don't know many more details, but be sure to ask sales people if you go out and buy a unit. Also, check the Talkbacks below...as (presumably) our fine readers will post more information as it becomes evident/available.

Readers Talkback

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  • Nov. 2, 2007, 7:52 p.m. CST

    is this online as well?

    by SkiBum

    or just an instore promotion.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    Great

    by RogueIntruder

    HD DVD rules over Blue Ray

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:01 p.m. CST

    WAL-MART HAS CHOSEN HD-DVD, AND HERE'S WHY:

    by Pound Sand

    they're a loss leader.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Here's a tip

    by Funketeer

    If cash is scarce, don't go wasting your money on a freakin iPhone. Put it in the bank and save it instead of blowing it on a stupid fad that your don't really need.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:14 p.m. CST

    This is NOT true HD...

    by righteous_faustus

    look at the specs of this player...it obviously cannot shell out the 1080p resolutions for TRUE HD. NUFF said

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:15 p.m. CST

    Holy shit...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...and so the frothing shitstorm commences. <p> Nice way to up the hit count, Merrick.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:26 p.m. CST

    sorry, but this post is pointless

    by Holodigm

    all walmarts sold out of their players by about 815 this morning. i doubt any store had more than 20 (mine had 15), and they were all snatched up immediately. oh and to throw in my opinion, i was leaning toward blu-ray, maybe still am, but this is my first next-gen player and i am EXTREMELY happy with it. transformers gets a lot less retarded in 1080.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:36 p.m. CST

    I wish televisions were cheaper...

    by tonagan

    I mean, really. They're expensive. (Just wanted to whine about something, sorry.)

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:40 p.m. CST

    something tells me the walmart in columbus off I-10 has 'em

    by Deus Vult

    why not? population of columbus is 731. and by the way, columbus is about 45 minutes south of austin so if exit highway 71 off I-10 and buy your quasi-hd dvd player, you can always drive north on 71 to austin and tell harry to his face WHY YOU CHOSE HD-DVD! MWA-HA!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:46 p.m. CST

    Hey Fastus--

    by Batutta

    Almost every HDTV takes a 1080i picture and turns it into 1080p. The only advantage to a 1080p player is that it does this job on its own, sometimes better than your TV can, sometimes not.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:55 p.m. CST

    This smacks of desperation

    by Acappellaman

    HD-DVD is falling behind Blu-Ray rapidly, that's why this offer was made. They get more players on the market, they'll sell more movies, simple economics. I *still* think Blu-Ray will win in the end, but I'm just happy HD has finally arrived.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:57 p.m. CST

    1080p TVs upconvert - This is True HD

    by JoeSixPack

    1080p TVs upconvert 1080i images. Sorry, but this is a true high definition HD player. Those looking to get into the HD media market need to purchase this player!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:58 p.m. CST

    Batutta, I think you're wrong

    by ZoeFan

    You may have a 1080p TV, but if your player is 1080i, you're not getting a true 1080 Progressive (that's what the p stands for) picture. It would be like having a cassette tape and burning whats on the cassette tape to CD. Just because you have the material on CD now doesn't mean you have CD quality. Because the source material (the tape cassette) isn't CD quality to begin with. Same thing with a 1080i player and a 1080p TV.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:09 p.m. CST

    ZoeFan, You are wrong

    by JoeSixPack

    Look it up

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:10 p.m. CST

    YOKO HAS CHOSEN HARRY'S COCK, HERE'S WHY:

    by Loosejerk

    QUINT ALREADY TOOK ELI ROTH'S HUGE PROSTHETIC WANG!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:13 p.m. CST

    GREAT WAL-OF-CHINA-MART

    by DigitalBeachWar

    DO NOT SUPPORT THE DEVIL!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Zoefan, that is incorrect.

    by azmodien

    Do some research because you know not what you speak of. The resolution and picture information are identical. The only difference is the way in which the frames are transmitted to the TV. Your cassette analogy is fucked as well.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST

    someone answer me this

    by Bloo

    I currently donot have an HD tv, no current plans of getitng one unless htey really come down inprice, hsould I go ahead and invest in this HD player or wait till I have the HD TV I'm pretty happy with my Phillips DVD player and was looking at getitng a DVR this christmas for myself so gain, save the moeny invest in the DVR or go ahead shell out the $100 for the HD Player without the HD TV

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Experts tell me ...

    by Hercules

    it's impossible to tell the difference between a 1080i and a 1080p image unless you got a screen bigger than 50". Of course, all the HD-DVD discs output to 1080p so if you ever get around to upgrading to a bigger-than-4' 1080p screen, all your HD-DVD discs will work even better. <p>For the record, Blu-ray looks just as good; it just costs more.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:37 p.m. CST

    "TRUE HD" is marketing bullshit.

    by ZeroCorpse

    720p is HD. So is 1080i. So is 1080p. There is no standard for "true" HD established, and the whole thing is Sony bullshit to get you to spend the extra cash for a Sony BD player and 1080p HDTV. <p> Fact is that there is NO television provider, cable, dish or over-the-air, that sends out 1080p signals. There isn't a single network that broadcasts in 1080p, either. <p> 720p is high definition, and the difference between 720p and 1080p is not visisble to the human eye on anything smaller than 50", and almost negligible in larger screens. Anybody who runs around saying "True HD" needs to be kicked in the pants for swallowing Sony's cock and gobbling it like a Taiwan whore.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Bloo-- "really come down in price"

    by ZeroCorpse

    Jeez. You can pick up a 26" HDTV for a couple hundred these days, and if you want to be clever about it, you can grab a widescreen computer monitor for even less if you know where to shop-- And a computer monitor is essentially HDTV without a tuner. <p> You could also go for a CRT HDTV and get a large one dirt cheap. <p> There's no reason not to get into HDTV now. It's already getting pretty low-priced. Sure, you'd have to settle for a smaller one for the lower prices, but really, do you need a ginormous TV? I'm quite happy with my 32" HDTV, and it's my second one. My first was a 26" from the early days of HD (didn't even have HDMI or a tuner). <p> Seriously, man. This XMas is the time to grab an HDTV. DEEP discounts will happen. Look around. You can step into HD for less than $400 for a decent size if you shop smart.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    too bad I haven't chosen Wal-Mart

    by Reynard Muldrake

    bastard people. i'm gonna go home and bite my pillow is what i'm gonna do. need an hd tv first anyway.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST

    There is a reason for this sale...

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    Same reason why, when Transformers came out on HD-DVD a few weeks back, Blu_ray studios put up a big 2-titles-for-1 sale. It's meant to counter-balance the sales numbers for the big title that the other camp is releasing. This coming Tuesday, Disney is releasing Ratatouille, Cars, and the Pixar Short Films collection, all only on Blu-Ray. Plus the fact Sony just released the Spider Man Blu-Rays as well. Toshiba needs to do something to make it look like HD-DVD is holding up well in spite of the competition. Hell, when I read yesterday that Best Buy was going to sell HD-DVD players for $99, I decided I was going to get one just for Transformers. Until I realized that I'd only be playing a part I didn't want to play in this stupid format war. I didn't want to be another one of their statistics supporting HD-DVD's bullshit. So I'm waiting for Toshiba's hold over Paramount (17 months left and counting) to buy TF on Blu-Ray.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Zero, thanks for the heads up

    by Bloo

    I've been pricing them off and on all summer long, but I don't make a lot of many working for a small town newspaper and so I'm pretty stingy when it comes to any new toys. I've been hoping that they'll be a deep discount day ater Thanksgiving and I can pick up an HD TV like I have with my last 2 tvs. I live in a small Kansas town so my only option is Wal-Mart unless I want to travel so I'e ben eyeing a HD Tv but like I said, I haent' a lot of money. A nice HD TV from a walmart might eat up most of my bi-weekly paycheck and it's not a NEED right now.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:04 p.m. CST

    4GB Iphone

    by Turd Furgeson

    Why? Jeez Merrick, you'll fill that fucker up in 3 days... Pinch your pennies for the next 3 months and shoot for the 8gb. Or even better, WAIT till march when the Iphone2 comes out with a much much much cheaper price point.... Mkay?

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:06 p.m. CST

    by Hmerly

    Please get over yourself. If you actually believe the bull Sony put out about the 18 month contract or the 150 million payoff, you're more an idiot then anyone. There is no evidence of any of this, yet BD fanboys keep trumpeting the same story. It was nothing but BD damage control. Truth is, both sides provide incentives and the only time that a studio has gone from supporting to not supporting either format is Paramount and they chose against Blu-Ray. Also, this is happening also in all probability next year to Warner. They are rumored, with a lot of hints from Warner executives, that their neutral stance will probably be changing come the new year. A lot will depend on this 4th quarter and with HD DVD's price advantage you can already see the writing on the wall. If BD loses Warner, it'll be a devestating blow. Warner alone has done more for HDM than just about all the other studios combined that support Blu-ray. Also, 1080i displayed on a 1080p screen from a 1080p source is not discernable. You're still seeing the full 1080p image on your screen. Do some research and you'll see the truth.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:19 p.m. CST

    "This is NOT true HD..."

    by Elcabio

    One should have their facts right before making such posts. Several years ago TWO standards were set for what would be officially called HD in this country. 720p and 1080i. When the standards were set, CRT TVs that displayed interlaced video were still predominant. Now that most HDTVs display progressive video signals, there is little sense in limiting the output to 1080i, so now 1080p resolutions are offered. Currently, only few TVs even accept a 1080p signal (they may display 1080p but only after deinterlacing a 1080i signal... which was first down coverted from 1080p by the HiDef DVD player...confused yet?)so it's a moot point. Bottom line, for $98 just buy the fucking thing... ofcourse, without a software update, you might not be able to play Transformers or newer HD DVDs on it because of the new copy protection...

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:22 p.m. CST

    hmm, I think I might buy one if it's this cheap...

    by Zardoz

    wow. that's incredible. it took a few years for standard DVD players to drop below $100. Hell, if I can get a BD player for less than $100, I might buy one of those, too!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:27 p.m. CST

    I have a 65" 1080p HDT.V.

    by Cymbol

    So, I will not be getting a $98 1080i HD DVD player - and I already have a PS3 that plays 1080p 24FPS Blu-rays. I'm good. I'm sure Walmart is very carefully explaining to all these consumers that over half the movies they want in HD are only available on Blu-ray. HD DVD is a good product, however, I don't think many people are truly educated about where the format war is at and what they are getting for their $100. They might get a little upset when they realize Spiderman 1-3, Die Hard 1-4, Pirates 1-3, all Disney films including Pixar's latest, Lost Season 3, Simpsons Movie, etc. are not available on their format . . . I'm sure they'll be very happy when they are educated about this.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:32 p.m. CST

    ZoeFan is right...

    by AllanUSC

    If your TV has to upconvert an interlaced image (1080i) into a progressive image (1080p) it's never as good as having a 1080p image in the first place. We all know that there are players that can upconvert a STANDARD DVD image to 1080i. Does that mean that we shouldn't bother with HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray in the first place? A native 1080p image will always be better than an image that has to be upconvertered to 1080p. azmodien, the information on the HD-DVD disc is in 1080p but the problem is that the Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player "transmits" (as you put it) the image to your TV in 1080i. And even if "it's impossible to tell the difference between a 1080i and a 1080p image unless you got a screen bigger than 50 inches" as Hercules says, 1080i is STILL INFERIOR TO 1080p.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Who cares what the player costs?

    by bralli

    I could care less if they where giving the units away. I don't want to invest in an HD-DVD or Blue-ray collection that ends up going the way of the Betamax in a year. I'll just keep waiting...

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Still Can Get Great Deals Online

    by Damed

    Still in stock at Circuit City http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Toshiba-HD-DVD-Player-HDA2/sem/rpsm/oid/169466/catOid/-12872/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do Also, NOW, Best Buy has dropped their price on the HD-A3, the "successor" to the HD-A2, to $199. NOT ONLY does this player qualify for the same 5 free mail in rebate, but it includes "300" and "The Bourne Identity" in the box with the player. Not only that, buy Best Buy is offering 2 free HD-DVDs of your choice with the purchase. Say... Transformers and Batman Begins? Or whatever else you like. So yeah. $199 gets you the newest player and 9, count 'em, 9 HD-DVDs. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8494435&st=hd-a3&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1186003898783

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 11:09 p.m. CST

    brali

    by Turd Furgeson

    I am with you... I will wait too. I have a huge collection of old school DVD's and a 55"1080I television.. I'll upgrade the TV and DVD at the same time, when a format is chosen.. You hear that manufacturers? I am willing to spend a shit load of money on a new TV, DVD player and collection of DVD's, just pick a fucking format already!!!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Cue the Blew-Gay fanboys.

    by MaxTheSilent

    A vast majority of Blu-Ray supporters are nothing more than PS3 owners in denial that they paid almost a grand for a worthless games machine, and a second-rate HD media player.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 11:33 p.m. CST

    AllanUSC

    by earl of sandwich

    Inferior in your mind, dumbfuck. Would you bet your system and all your precious discs that you could tell the difference between 1080i & 1080p? I think not. People love to feel like they are in the know and are on the ball when it comes to specs and what not. Talk to an actual sales rep for Toshiba OR Sony, outside the retail sales environment, and they'll tell you the straight shit that 1080p is a marketing ploy. Don't get me wrong, if it's there, great, use it! Just don't make me think that I have spend more to get something that to the naked eye is identical. The HD-A2 looks identical to HD-A20 (which costs double). And as others have pointed out, no one bitches about crappy old HDTV picture quality at crummy old 1080i (barely any stations) or worse yet 720p (almost all major networks). How people tolerate that inferior picture is beyond me. Good thing you have 1080p for when the "good stuff" starts coming down the pipe. Dipshits.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 11:38 p.m. CST

    Why do you people fucking care?

    by IndustryKiller!

    what kind of jackass do you have to be to get pissed over HD vs. Blue Ray? It's the same fucking thing. Buy whichever.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 11:54 p.m. CST

    tried to get one in SF bay area: sold out!

    by Zardoz

    I checked everywhere: BestBuy, Wal-Mart, Circuit City, Target. Not a one to be found. Sold out this morning, said most of the retailers. Impressive. (and I'm not loyal to either format, BTW)

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 11:57 p.m. CST

    oh, and my HDTV is 720p

    by Zardoz

    not 1080p. and really, can you honestly tell the difference between the two? Besides, most games are 720p max, and that's what I like in HD the most. And broadcast TV is still 1080i, same for cable HD.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:23 a.m. CST

    earl of sandwich

    by AllanUSC

    Your mastery of the english language clearly surpasses mine. Do you have nothing better to do than insult strangers during a discussion of home video formats? I stand by my statement that 1080p is superior to 1080i but if you are content to watch your movies and other content from a VHS machine conected to a 13-inch CRT TV, you could really save some serious money. My intent was not to convince anyone to spend any more money than they want to but to state a technical fact.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:25 a.m. CST

    are people really too lazy to look at facts?

    by Mickguinness

    For all those who are too lazy to look up the facts that are available...read on. Blu-Ray players are as affordable as hd dvd players now with the BDPS1 dropping to $399 and the BDPS300 at $499 and expected to drop even more before XMAS. Also, the new 40GB PS3 also plays blu-ray and is $399. As for the free movies with a player purchase, BD has been doing that for months already (you get 5 free movies with any bd player or ps3). There are more movies available on bd and it is outselling hd hdvd 3-1 in the states and closer to 4-1 around the world. Warner Bros announced earlier this week they will reconsider their position and potentially go exclusive to BD, obviously swayed by the fact that bd sales of the recent release 300 decimated the hd dcd format sales of the same title. And you can get blu-ray movies for as low as $15 now. BD is just as affordable, has larger storage capacity and better technology to support types of special features hd dvd won't even be around long enough to attempt to figure out. This has nothing to do with being fanboys or stupid shit like that. It's simply about people having such hatred for sony that they are to ignorant to realize bd is simply a better technology with more film and tech industry support and that there arguments (such as pricing) are no longer anywhere near accurate or relevant.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:27 a.m. CST

    bluray is better

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    you know it, i know it, the american people know it! if you dont buy bluray, then you hate america. and you dont hate america do you?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:28 a.m. CST

    Sorry for typing errors above

    by Mickguinness

    really need to be able to go back and edit posts, dontcha think?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:37 a.m. CST

    Went with the A3 deal at Best Buy

    by Jay Mammoth

    Went to Best Buy on my lunch break and bought the A3 with 9 free discs for $200. Awesome machine, don't see no difference in PQ between this and my PS3 playing Blu-Ray discs in 1080p.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:42 a.m. CST

    Blu-rays 2-1 sales lead is over

    by Jay Mammoth

    The week Transformers was released Sony had BOGO sales at damn near every retailer, and they still barely won the week 51% to 49%. And a 2-1 lead is pretty horrible considering theres about 3 million blu-ray players in US homes compared to what? half a million HD players?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:42 a.m. CST

    the only anger about this "feud" seesm to come from blu ray supp

    by slappy jones

    whenever I read someone up in arms about this hi definition war it is really only blu ray people whose panties seem to be in a bunch. so I can only guess they are PS3 owners who are finaslly facing the fact that the PS3 is a bit of a turkey and that its blu ray technology...the only thing it really has going for it is not as "special" as everyone thought. never back sony when it comes to a new technology. mini disc, dat, umd, beta...all sony sony sony....

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:46 a.m. CST

    sad this got posted late

    by master bitchfist

    this just posted, and i called up every walmart within 30 miles and they are completely sold out of the HD-A2. sigh

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:56 a.m. CST

    Does the A3 really come with 300 & Bourne?

    by superfleish76

    I'm thinking about ordering, and those are two near the top of my list. It doesn't have anything in the description about the movies in the box on bestbuy.com.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:09 a.m. CST

    Dual Format HD

    by apersonofinterest

    We've already resigned ourselves to a long and pointless format war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray over which next-gen optical disc gets to succeed the DVD, but at least one heavyweight says they're going to increase the peace and introduce a universal player that can handle both formats. Samsung's been mainly in the Blu-ray camp — they already introduced a Blu-ray recorder late last year (the BD-R1000) — but the head of the company's consumer electronics division threw down the other day, declaring that Samsung would, "welcome a unified standard, but if this doesn't come, which looks likely, we'll bring a unified solution to market." Doesn't sound like it'll be easy to pull off, but a universal player would definitely be good for consumers since they wouldn't have to worry about whether they'll actually be able to watch the high-def movies they're buying. It'd also put manufacturers who are firmly committed to one format or the other in a tight spot: why would you buy a Toshiba HD-DVD player or a Sony Blu-ray player when you could just get a Samsung combo player that can play both?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:19 a.m. CST

    BluRays Advantage!!

    by Redfive!

    I have both but perfer Bluray because of space.At first it might not seem like nothing special but Harry Potter 5's disc {for example} is gonna have most of the special features in HD,where HD-DVDs will only be standard and NOT in HD. The advantage to HD DVD is two things,Hardware is cheaper and it has Picture in a Picture commentary,which is sweet but a standard commentary with just audio is fine by me.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:20 a.m. CST

    The 2-1 sales ratio is horse-s**t.

    by MaxTheSilent

    From HiDef.com: According to some early reports, Spiderman III Blu-Ray DID NOT have enough to BEAT Transformers HD-DVD! If the reports are accurate, this is a PERFECT example of WHY you CANNOT count on the PS3 for Blu-Ray movie title sales. This also demonstrates that Blu-Ray 2 to 1 software lead is NOTHING. Think about it? Right now basically 3 studios are supporting HD-DVD. This means ONLY 3 studios are splitting the consumer base that purchases HD-DVD movies. Now let us look at Blu-Ray. You have Sony, Columbia, Fox, Disney, MGM and WB all splitting the sales. If you compare the numbers of 1.6 million vs 795,000 you have each Blu-Ray studio selling 266,000 (and even less if you count Lionsgate) vs 265,000 per studio for HD-DVD. These numbers do not include the 190,000+ copies of Transformers sold thus far. Remember, between Toshiba and Microsoft, they have about 450,000+ HD-DVD Players vs nearly 6 million PS3's and about 150,000+ Blu-Ray Home Players. With such a staggering hardware lead they should be murdering the competition but instead the competition (HD-DVD) brought a better format to the table and is holding down the fort with less "support". Everyone really needs to realize that you cannot FORCE a product down the throats of consumers which is exactly WHAT Sony and the Blu-Ray camp are attempting to DO! Stay Tuned..

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:36 a.m. CST

    The Truth about this ...

    by lotusblade

    Read the Digital Bits. They have been and are so positively Blu Ray it's amusing to view their take. <p> What their reaction means.... <p> HD DVD is doing something so brilliant they posted a lie about dumping laws... Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc. are selling these in all 50 states. They either have product or they don't. <p> Early estimates in player numbers in household in the USA: 450,000 HD-DVD players... <p> Toshiba sold over 100,000 in one day! <p> They just increased their home market by over 25% and software sales have been improving. WARNER & NEW LINE will be going HD-DVD in January when their contract runs out with BD. The Lord of the Rings will be on HD-DVD only. <p> That is going to sell some players, plus even Spielberg is rumored to be looking at the new 51GB HD-DVDs as being worthy of his titles...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4 a.m. CST

    Oh Yeah and

    by radjac33

    K-Mart is now dropping Blu-Ray due to price and thier costumers not being in the same demographic, (cheap bargain hunters)

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:22 a.m. CST

    Why do we need HD DVD/Blue Ray Players?

    by Sappers Forward

    When The future is clearly with Vista V. 2 extenders and downloadable media. In the near future I'll be able to stream/downlaod movies in any format of my choosing and play it with full audio on my home theater system. Plus I'll be able to upload media to a personal site that friends and family can access and watch on thier home theaters. So, there really is no need for an over priced Blue Ray player or an HD dvd player. You can thank Vista media center. BAM!

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:35 a.m. CST

    Got my 98$ HDDVD at 6am lol

    by pax256

    Im 5 min from the US border. Local WM opened early and the guy got management to punch it in before the 8am sale. I coulda kissed him for not making me wait till 8 am. Didnt see any mention of free hddvd's other than the 5 freebies by mail. Amazing picture and even better impression for sound. If as Ive read that HD DVD is a locked format then we should all be able to run the 3-4 layer discs later on with a simple firmware update. BD however only locked down its final HW pec recently possibly screwing over early adopters... Ive bought and watched 3 movies and have 200$ worth on order (some backordered as they are sold out). The player is quiet, flawless, and generates virtually no heat compared to my 5 year old dvd player. It boots faster than that old player as well (Id payed 400$ way back then for it). This is the deal of the season and we cant lose. If BD wins in the long run we likely get cheap BD HW by end of next year or only slightly more pricey dual format players. Ill have most of the movies I want for my small 40-50 movie geek collection by then on hd dvd. I expect this kind of move to make a slew of other flicks yet to be released out on the format. This is endgame for the format war but unlike betamax no one is screwed. You simply buy cheap dual format or the other format player you dont own for 100-200$ HW later so your 'betamax' discs wont ever be pricey coasters... Most important Im ready for Blade Runner in December. I was holding off as the HW in Canada was retrailing for 400$ for hddvd and ~600$ Bluray until very recently which made a move an excessively expensive choice for me. Now its blown the whole issue wide open. This is fucking great! No reason to hold back on old dvd tech anymore. Things will ramp up and move fast now...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:41 a.m. CST

    I dont think downloading will take off...

    by pax256

    Keep discs cheap at 15-20$ and no one will wait hours and pay for an HD dl... I have cable on demand too but the selection is very limited. There will always be those who want to own a selection of their favorite films...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:53 a.m. CST

    I would rather have Blu-ray.

    by ForvalakaFobic

    But that doesn’t mean I don’t want you to have HD DVD if that is your preference. I had no opinion about either format for a long time. Then I learned that BD was going to have only 3 Region Codes and that Region A is going to include both North America AND Japan. I won’t need a special region-free player to watch Japanese discs. I will not need to “chip” or otherwise modify a PS3 to play any number of software titles that despite a huge following in their native country, probably will never see the light of day stateside. I truly loathe the DVD and HD DVD Region Codes. They are a burden and a nuisance. After investing thousands of hours of my life learning Japanese, any fewer barriers to my access of Japanese media is a blessing. Being able to pop online to Amazon Japan and get some flicks and games that I know will perform flawlessly on a mainstream piece of equipment rather than just hoping that they will work on a semi-black market/hacked/modified/jury-rigged machine is a convenience that I look forward too. So entirely for my own selfish reasons, I hope Blu-ray will find a lot of success in the marketplace. If that means “There can be only one!”, then I’m rooting for BD. Purely out of self interest. I wouldn’t eat somebody’s lunch for manufacturing a machine that can read both though.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:54 a.m. CST

    RE : Sappers Forward

    by Real Deal

    So your saying that you will be able to purchase a movie, download it, and send it to a site that anyone ( with a PC not a Mac )can view at their own house? Somehow I doubt it will be that simple. You see in order for any download scheme to win and become mainsteam like you're talking about will have to have portability. If I buy a movie in HD I'll want to not only view it at home but if my friend wants to barrow it or if I want to watch it at his house not mine that will make it mainstream. So far most download operations only let you rent the movie and only watch it in one place. So if you want to see it somewhere else you'll have to pay for it again ( and again ). Get where I'm going here? If they let you download it and burn a copy well that's different. But so far movie studios have been reluctant to let that sort of thing occur. Plus making you pay for it again and again is more profit. So now do you see the problem here? For any method to become accepted as mainstreme it has to be the same as what the public is already used to. The VHS model. When you buy the media it's yours. Anything else is doomed to failure. As proof I offer the Divx idea ( not the codec ) that was backed by Circuit City back in the early days of DVD. It suffered from the same lack of portability. And died a quick death. Also sometimes when you pay $ 20.00 for something some people still like to hold it in their hand.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 5:02 a.m. CST

    Toshiba Dumping Unsold Players

    by jonnycat121

    How in the world does Toshiba think it's ever going to make any money from the HD-DVD format? I mean, seriously. You may have heard by now that Toshiba has made pre-Black Friday arrangements with Wal-Mart to effectively dump its HD-A2 HD-DVD player starting this Friday (this weekend only) for just $98.87. You may also have heard that Best Buy has followed suit. Supplies are limited, of course, and the offer is apparently not valid in some parts of the country that have state anti-dumping laws. Read the rest at: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa145.html#tosh99

  • So they are making room for the new HW coming down the pipe whiiel giving us poppers an early cheap upgrade. Secondly this is the same policy that game console makers use. Sell the HW at a loss, get an ealry lead in the install base and make it up with years (in this case maybe up to 20 years) worth of royalties on disc sales.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Kmart Not Exclusively Supporting HD-DVD Format

    by jonnycat121

    Statement from Jonathan Magasanik, Vice President and General Merchandise Manager, Home Electronics, Sears Holdings HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill., Nov. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- There have been numerous statements in the media today, attributed to Toshiba, indicating exclusive support for the HD-DVD format in Kmart stores. These statements are false. Kmart intends to support both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray platforms, and has no plans to support either platform exclusively. About Kmart Kmart, a wholly owned subsidiary of Sears Holdings Corporation (Nasdaq: SHLD), is a mass merchandising company that offers customers quality products through a portfolio of exclusive brands that include Jaclyn Smith, Joe Boxer, Martha Stewart Everyday and Route 66. For more information visit the company's website at http://www.kmart.com or the Sears Holdings Corporation website at http://www.searsholdings.com.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 7:29 a.m. CST

    I HAVE CHOSEN DVD... HERE'S WHY

    by Iowa Snot Client

    I'm broke and don't give a fuck.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:17 a.m. CST

    1080i and 1080p are the same for MOVIES!!

    by WASPFAN

    Checkout 3:2 pulldown - search home theater magazine and get it straight -- movies are 24 frames per second - no difference at all between 1080i and 1080p for movies -- there is so much bullshit on this site it makes me laugh.....

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:34 a.m. CST

    Do not buy either format until.....

    by darthliquidator

    Keep your wallets in your damn pants until all these greedy slugs who run the studios, the hardware and the software are finished their pissing contest and one of the two formats triumphs over the other. To me, it looks like a steroid-enhanced rerun of the Beta Vs. VHS situation. And if history repeats, HD will win out even if people grumble that Blu-Ray had the edge in quality.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:47 a.m. CST

    ganymede3010

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    they dont count the ps3 as a bluray sale

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:48 a.m. CST

    1080p is slightly better

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    because the p stands for progressive scan and i guess it looks better in movement but its not a big diffrence

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:56 a.m. CST

    oh but 1080p isnt gonna make me go out and buy a new tv

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    1080i will do

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:56 a.m. CST

    1080I & 1080P are IDENTICAL

    by TS Thomas

    righteous_faustus, others - take a look at Home Theater Magazine; http://blog.hometheatermag.com/geoffreymorrison/0807061080iv1080p/ "so let me say this in big bold print, as far as movies are concerned THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 1080i AND 1080p... If you send 1080i, the TV de-interlaces it to 1080p. If you send your TV the 1080p signal, the player is de-interlacing the signal. As long as your TV is de-interlacing the 1080i correctly, then there is no difference."

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Once again...

    by Mickguinness

    people are showing that they support hd dvd more so based on the fact that they are anti-sony. Fox was waiting to put most of their movies out until the security protection against pirating was finished and now they are unleashing their full library. Warner is soon to be exclusive to BD. Target sells only BD players exclusively (does sell both movies) and blockbuster only rents BD. Look at the HD vs BD sales of 300. The fact that a new 100 GB BD is on the way, that high def camcorders now will use BD, special features are in HD on all new movies, etc. There is more support for BD, yes, and their lead over HD will increase soon enough. The only reason why it isn't bigger already is because studios have been staggering their high def releases and taking more time to oversee the video transfers to make sure they are right. Want The Pirates movies? Spider-Man, Superbad? Blu-ray. And the 2-1 numbers you got? Wrong. Do more research. more like 3 and 4-1. It's not that BD supporters are the only ones that get mad. It's that it is instigated by people who automatically assume sony is bad, without examining the current facts about THIS format war, not beta.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:07 a.m. CST

    This could be a brilliant move

    by superfleish76

    You get the hardware in people's hands, and they are gonna buy your product. They have now sold 1000's of players that they would not have otherwise, which will equate to millions of dollars in movie sales. Personally, I hate the format war, and have no preference, really, but a $200 player and 9 movies won me over for now. If Bluray follows with a similar offer, they'll get my $$$, too.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:20 a.m. CST

    superfleish76: Re: 300 and Bourne

    by Damed

    All 3rd generation Toshibas have these 2 movies in the box. See the announcement here: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070905/new135.html?.v=8

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:02 a.m. CST

    what's also interesting

    by Quint

    This is a fascinating move by Toshiba. $98 is no risk at all. It's actually, at worst, a fairly inexpensive upconverting player. <BR><BR>But what I think is getting overlooked is the importance of the non-super-special sale of the A3 for under $200, not even considering that it comes with 9 films that's a helluva good price.<BR><BR>And what's also interesting about Wal-Mart is the fact the they're putting out a selection of under $15 HD-DVDs, too. I picked up Sleepy Hollow last night. If they can keep up those prices on discs (at least for library titles) I think that'll help turn the tide more than people think it will.<BR><BR>It's going to take a huge step for Blu-Ray to counter this. If Warners goes exclusively BR, that might do it. But with early word saying there's 100,000 more stand alone HD-DVD players in people's homes and an under $200 price for the A3, I think HD-DVD will overtake BR for the first time this year in DVDs sold. I don't know what the means in the long run, but I'd assume that would lock more and more studios in neutrality, which is good news for both sides.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:10 a.m. CST

    its very interesting

    by Turd Furgeson

    I was too young to see the VHS and BETA war, we had a both, but I don't remember any great pricing or product battle... Anyone know of one? This is why the internet is sooo great! We can all sit and talk about this stuff, where if we didn't have this medium, the masses wouldn't really know how cool this is to witness.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:44 a.m. CST

    bluray and hddvd are not the same do homework

    by skiff

    what a waste of money these players arenot even 1080p. looking at 2 warner films side by side means nothing becaue they were authored the same and do not take advantage of the higher bandwidth and discspace of bluray.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:01 a.m. CST

    If you believe comicgeekold

    by Damed

    You are an idiot. http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:34 a.m. CST

    HD DVD has NO Regional Coding

    by DarkhawkPrime

    I Just wanted to clear something up from a previous post about how Bluray has only 3 Regional coding, and HD Dvd had regional coding. Well hate to break this to everyone, HDDVD HAS NO REGIONAL CODING. I currently own the German import of Running Scared, and the Spanish import of Underworld Evolution. If you go to Xploited Cinema and they have 58 HD DVD's which aren't released or Blu exclusive like Resident Evil, both Fantastic Four films, Terminator 2, or Total Recall.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:30 p.m. CST

    whoever gets star wars and/or disney wins

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    thats all there is to it

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:35 p.m. CST

    No Risk?

    by Varakor

    Toshiba is losing 400 bucks per player (original retail is 499) so this has to pay off for Toshiba as they are takin a hit per device. I wonder how the blu ray camp gonna match?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:44 p.m. CST

    The Digital Bits: Biased to the bone

    by Stormwatcher

    I can't read there site at all. Those that say this site are biased to HDDVD should really read that site, its so absolutely in the BD camp its insane.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:08 p.m. CST

    the reason people don't know the facts

    by INWOsuxRED

    is because it is fucking useless information.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:11 p.m. CST

    AllanUSC and anyone else......here's the challenge

    by earl of sandwich

    A bunch of you all say 1080p is better than 1080i, a ``technical fact``. I'm assuming you are basing this on something you've either read, been told, or imagined you've seen on a display. I stand behind the actual benchmark tests done by serious home theatre publications and the industry people that I work with everyday, you can't tell the fucking difference! I defy any of you asshats to put your gear (all of it, TV, machines, discs) on the line and say you could tell the difference in a blind 5 screen head to head. No 50/50 2 screen head to heads. Any idiot can get lucky picking A or B, try and pick the 3 out of the five, with certainty, and be able to tell me why you chose what you chose. And as for people siting the Digital Bits as "authorities", Bill was and is a pioneer of DVD on the web reporting. We all really appreciate the work he's done over the years to bring issues to light (anamorphic widscreen, etc) and make a difference for the consumer. He thinks Blu-Ray is the right choice? Cool. Good for you. But for christ`s sake, turn down the whining and excuse making and just report the facts. Oh, and Allan, take a pill, it`s AICN, being called dipshit for stating your opinion (which you have every right to do, no matter how uninformed it actually is) is pretty mild. As for what I watch my stuff on, somehow I get by on just on a 42in 1080i Sony Bravia and a cruddy old HD-A20.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Damn these format wars!

    by Dazzler69

    Whoever has the cheapest price wins. Unless you are a douche.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:54 p.m. CST

    VHS or BETA

    by DigitalBeachWar

    baiscally unless you have a huge HDTV it doesnt matter which one you have. to enjoy full on HD you need an HDTV larger than 50". so then it comes down to what type of TV should you buy. that's where the real debate lies... Plasma? LCD? DPL? or good ol fasioned Tube. i enjoy Tubes better... no bluring when there is a lot of movement... and a lot cheaper too.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 1:56 p.m. CST

    oh yeah...

    by DigitalBeachWar

    some production companies are only releasing on bluray, owned by sony, vs HD only players... i think disney flicks are only on HD. so if you want to watch the lion king it will have to be in HD

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 2:32 p.m. CST

    It's only natural they're giving it away, and the movies too

    by dtpena

    If you have an overstock of stuff that nobody buys and you're profiting $0 from them, it's much better to sell them at $100 and cut some loses. Same happens with movies.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 2:32 p.m. CST

    1080p, and whose losing money?!?!?!?

    by lotusblade

    Name me a BD player that sends 1080p/24 FPS to a TV WITHOUT converting the signal. That's right, I want you to name me the BD player that reads the 1080P/24 FPS information from the BD disc. <p> There isn't one. Rumor was the new $1500 Denon will... that would make it the first true 1080P unit on the market... but then you'd need a 1080p disc. NOBODY but Universal currently puts a 1080p source out. <p> So either your TV or player are doing the deinterlacing. The problem here is the best deinterlacing chips are in the HD-DVD players with the exception of the aforementioned Denon. <p> What the Digital Bits doesn't tell you is the COST of the A2. It was originally priced at $499 MSRP. However dealers paid $300 for it, when the price dropped to $399, dealers paid $240 for it. When it dropped to $299, dealers paid $162 for it. <p> So it's a $63 loss, that Toshiba is covering with $100 to Wal-Mart and Best Buy, and they had around 200,000 units left (all will be sold out before next week). <p> The real question is production costs on the unit, which is around $220 with packaging, shipping, etc. So Toshiba has been taking a loss for months. Ever since they dropped the price to $299. <p> The A3 costs around $120 for Toshiba. Meaning in all likelyhood the $199 price might become standard around Black Friday. This is a good thing for the people wanting one of the formats to do something noticable. <p> Blu-Ray is a failure in massive terms. Studios aren't getting the sales they want (don't believe their PR people), and they're upset. The BD camp made a lot of promises and the bottom line for PARAMOUNT switching to HD-DVD only was that HD-DVD kept their promises better. Sales attachment rates are BETTER than HD-DVD promised, while sales numbers are FAR, FAR, FAR below expectations. <p> Blu Ray is in a much worse spot... for multiple reasons first of which is the PS3. The PS3 loses over $300 every time someone buys one. SIX MILLION TIMES $300 is a loss of $1.8B <p> Now consider that the BD players are much more expensive to manufacture (it's all about laser angles)... and the cheapest BD unit costs over $320 to manufacture/package. They drop the price to $399, and THEY ARE LOSING MONEY. <p> The other problem? It appears the geniuses who are manufacturing the units needed for either BD, HD-DVD, or the COMBO units, have priced the COMBO cheaper than the BD standalone... <p> WHAT?!?!? <p> Yeah it's cheaper for a company like SAMSUNG to make a Combo Player than it is to manufacture their BD players. The cost only increases when they have to pay both sides the patent costs, etc. <p> So the EVIL Toshiba is now luring manufacturers with lowered initial costs for HD-DVD to get them to join the HD-DVD crowd. Longtime BD camp member PIONEER has HD-DVD combo players in the works. Meanwhile ONKYO, INTEGRA, and HARMON KARDON are working on HD-DVD standalones, with the ONKYO and INTEGRA units going on sale this month. <p> Plus Wal-Mart is going to be selling a MAGNAVOX HD-DVD player for $149!!!! They hit shelves at Thanksgiving. <p> 200,000 times $120 is a $240M loss. Comparing that to the $1.8B MINIMUM that the BD players have lost to date is nothing. I bet the Toshiba number with the original units, etc. is closer to $350M. <p> Also MickGuinness... which STUDIO besides Universal has patent rights with HD-DVD and is an "owner," of the brand? WARNERS. They have money in the HD-DVD technology, when they say they're going to "reconsider," they are saying HD-DVD, not BD. The BD camp points to the sales of 300 as proof, and it *IS* proof. Warners is looking at ATTACHMENT RATES. With 6M players they EXPECT a title having at least 1.5M TOTAL SALES, at least one title. There is none. However HD-DVD has numerous titles (about 9) that have surpassed expectations. HD-DVD is HEALTHIER. PR can spin, spin, spin, but money loss, studios being bought, etc. is being done on BOTH sides, and truth is HD-DVD is healthy, PARAMOUNT proved it with Transformers. Warner and Newline going HD-DVD only after Jan 1st, will end this dumb war.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 2:35 p.m. CST

    1080I & 1080P are NOT IDENTICAL

    by staticneuron

    Honestly talk and misinformation is the rule of the day. If any one has a 1080p TV with 1:1 you can tell the difference between all those formats. The only thing that is debatable is 1080/24 vs 1080/60. That is more about choice and both HD DVD players and Blu ray players can achieve them.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 2:41 p.m. CST

    DigitalBeachWar why lie?

    by staticneuron

    Disney is on the BDA and their High def releases have only been on Blu ray. and lotusblade the PS3 is one such player. Spin it all "you" want but this is a firesale and the numbers are what counts. Even if we were to talk attach rates the issue is that many people simply were not buying HD DVD players that explains the drops in price and the bundling of movies. They do this so the can justify attach rates without addressing the issue that people werent interested in the players. I have seen both. I do not own an HD DVD player of my own But I have borrowed from my friend to watch movies and make comparisons. I was thinking about purchasing one until I realized what was happening. I don't think there is a real reason to fragment my library until there is a winner. So I am going to wait to see if this is a succesful play then continue on with my decision. Honestly when transformers was released BR's still outsold hd dvds? Say what you want but that is a very telling sign.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:11 p.m. CST

    lotusblade

    by zool43

    You really aren't thinking clearly if you think Warners' is looking at attachment rates as opposed to disc sales in making their decision to go with blu-ray exclusively. Face it hd-dvd is dying. This fire sale is a dying blow. Sad really.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:15 p.m. CST

    staticneuron...

    by TS Thomas

    If you can tell the difference between 1080i & 1080p then it's down to your TV not being as good as the DVD player at de-interlacing...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Neither format is "dying" at this point...

    by Raschied

    If you look at the total disc sales of BOTH formats, they are still way lower than DVD sales were in the early days. Unfortunately, this is far from over for either side, and all we are listening to at this point is either propaganda from one side or the other, or religious zealots inciting a "holy war" against the other format. YOUR DISC FORMAT IS NOT CHOSEN BY GOD, DAMMIT!

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Or, both formats are dying...

    by Raschied

    if you look at it with the glass half empty. The numbers are simply too small at this point for either format to survive, if they don't grow market share. Of course, both sides have too much invested at this point to let it go the way of SACD or DAT.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:44 p.m. CST

    Quint...

    by Ronimus Prime

    Best Buy had a great Bluray sale a couple weeks ago. A selection of good titles for $15 and even more at 2 for 1 which is even more for $15. Stellar, top tier titles were included (and a few stinkers as usual but is was mostly good stuff). Walmart has already stated that they have a couple of equivalent Bluray deals on the way. @lotusblade: You're full of so much shit I'm going to have to go and fetch my shovel to get out of my office.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:48 p.m. CST

    still up in the air...

    by radjac33

    the only people getting screwed are early adapters (they have money to throw away anyways{PS3}). on the whole, Hi-Def DVD is still about 5% of the total DVD market

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 3:54 p.m. CST

    Blu Ray haters (aka Wii and 360 fanboys)

    by BrowncoatJedi

    Blu Ray opponents are quite transparent. The only reason you are against Blu Ray is because of your sick love for Wii and 360. The HDDVD vs Blu Ray argument is quite childish. It's like arguing about Coke vs. Pepsi.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:02 p.m. CST

    my Betamax

    by chrisco

    is still going strong

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Who give a s@#*?!

    by dexter cornell

    Honestly, does this really matter? I have seen both and I'm telling you it's a waste of money. I do not need pristine everything, DVD is damn good as it is. More money wasted for what? Some extra features you'll watch once and never gander at again? For a 'picture-in-picture' commentary? Having those makes you more of a film expert? This whole fight is ridiculous and insane. Stop wasting your money and stick with what you have till this all simmers down then re-evaluate. I'm sick of all the biased shit anyway. Yes, Digital Bits is very anti-HDDVD. Harry is all against Blu-Ray. And here I sit not giving a rats ass because I can decide for myself. I tend to spend time watching a film and ENJOYING the film, not studying every pixel of resolution or every pin-drop in my rear speaker. Everyone that actually thinks this is worthy of a debate and even better, a fight? Well you need a hobby and a woman fast, before your life goes more into the toilet.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:21 p.m. CST

    fuck Wal-Mart..

    by Judge Briggs

    ill never shop there again.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:36 p.m. CST

    When Something Weird Video chooses a format...

    by bgart13

    I'll begin to take it seriously. HD is more tempting to the average/Walmart buyer due to cost. Isn't that what will really determine the outcome? If John Q. Public goes with what's more affordable, that's what will determine it all in the long run. If it's Blu-Ray, fine; if it's HD-DVD, fine too. I would prefer it to be HD, due to the non-region format -- how pro-consumer is that? Totally pro-consumer. If HD-DVD wins, it'll be more universal, and maybe John Q. Public won't be afraid to order a superior edition of something from the UK, France, Germany or Italy like we, in the US, are now (assuming that the HD-DVD players have the ability to play PAL dvds, though, which I haven't seen much about yet). That's what is most exciting to me, making it easier to see the cult films that receive more respectful treatment outside of the US. 'Course, I'm not part of the Majority...resume the spatting!

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Exactly, Dexter...

    by Raschied

    It's about what looks good. I recently went to a friend's house who was all excited about his 1080p "True HD" television. I flipped on ESPN and FOXHD, which both broadcast at 720/30p. Guess what? It looked like crap. The scalars in some of the cheaper 1080p televisions do not upsample 720p very well. For this reason, I'm still recommending 720p televisions to my friends and family who want to go HD. (The ones that aren't videophiles, and just want to watch the damn thing.)720p broadcasts will look pristine, and the 1080 material downsizes rather well. Now, I'm gonna get back to editing my RED camera footage at 4k resolution...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    No NTSC or PAL in HD...

    by Raschied

    There are some additional frame rates to consider, like 1080/50i and 720/25p, but the color spaces are identical in USA and Europe (ITU-R 709) so there's not as much trouble with the old NTSC/PAL problem. I haven't checked - most HDTV's here can play back all 18 formats specified by the ATSC, which (if memory serves) includes 25 and 50 fps rates.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Aaack.

    by Raschied

    What I meant to say regarding the 18 ATSC formats is that most TV's can play back all the different frame rates - obviously, a 720p TV can't play the 1080 format natively (although it will downsample it.)

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 5:02 p.m. CST

    I dont get it

    by TiPPiDa

    I have a PS3 and a Samsung DVD recorder that upscales to 1080p both running into my Samsung plasma through HDMI... and there is fuck all difference between Casino Royale BluRay and Casino Royale Upscaled DVD to be honest. Admittedly the major difference is the colors are a little richer but in some scenes they look a little TOO colorful (If that makes any sense) there seems to be almost a different hue to the movie through BluRay... (btw the TV is FullHD and connected through HDMI 1.3 I think, haven't read the manual for the specs.. haven't had it that long) can any of the HDDVD owners out there tell me how thier player stacks up? is there a massive difference between HDDVD/BluRay/Upscale DVD? But at the moment I think that upscaling DVD players are the shit, I can keep my old collection!

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 5:22 p.m. CST

    is it ture that when sony announce blu ray disc sales

    by slappy jones

    that is including games? it isn't juts taking into account movie but also includes games? thats what I heard...anyway...blu ray will lose. its sony's baby so it will go the way of beta, mini disc, dat, umd and all the other new formats they herald. I have both blu ray and hd dvd and for my eyes hd dvd looks better.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 5:27 p.m. CST

    digital bits is hilarious

    by slappy jones

    and people rail on harry for "selling out" they might as well rename their site bluray.com....

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 5:39 p.m. CST

    TS Thomas I understand

    by staticneuron

    what your saying but I have access and done test on multiple HDTV's and players. I did it to guide my television purchase, I did again to test the differences between BR and HD, and above all I did it when comparing resolutions and upscaled vs native. It isn't even a question, there are noticable differences.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Digital bits is funny

    by staticneuron

    " Forget for a moment that the HD-A2 isn't capable of delivering full 1080p video - that doesn't matter. Why? Because anyone who is so price sensitive that they wait until a high-def player price hits $99 to buy one isn't likely to have an HDTV set yet. Being super bargain shoppers, they aren't likely to want to pay $30 for an HD-DVD movie either. I'd bet many of the people who jump on this sale will either be using them primarily as upconverting DVD players, or they're already diehard HD-DVD supporters and are buying them as second players. For those regular consumers who take the bait, I wonder how they'll feel when they realize they can't play those big Disney titles in the "blu" boxes due next week." And they seem to make a bit of sense, no?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 6:07 p.m. CST

    I would rather choose

    by metaluna

    a well informed and respected technical site like Digital Bits which chose BR months ago for sound tech reasons rather than some fan site like AICN with it's ill informed mix of 'information' about the merits of one format over the other. You wanna buy some cheap loss leader player, go right ahead. It'll be out of date with its software in months. And for the record, there IS a difference in progresive and interlaced footage, so having a 1080p player and TV is more advantageous to the viewer when watching movies and action than an interlaced originated picture and signal. Also, 720 is no longer considered HD despite a lot of US broadcasts in that format. 720 lines is actually what SD TV cameras have shot for years (actually 750 lines). You bought a 720 set? You've been had, sucker. Hope you still have your receipt.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Why HD-DVD?

    by chewyou812

    Honest question for everyone out there. I currently do not own ps3. I own 360 & Wii and am looking to go hd with my movies. Everything I've seen states that they both have the same resolution but blu-ray has more storage capacity. I will admit that I am anti-toshiba ever since the 200hr tivo w/dvd burner I bought (made by toshiba) broke for the 1st of 3 times. Why should I spend $100 dollars on a player made by a company that made the same $600 (@ time of purchase) machine that kept breaking? And other than price, why go hd-dvd?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Who gives a shit indeed.

    by CatVutt

    Gotta jump on with Dexter and Ras. I can't pop HD-DVD's in the 20" LCD/DVD combo I have in the bedroom and the kitchen. My Pioneer Plasma is still fantastic, but it pre-dates HDMI for Pioneer by one generation, and I ain't upgrading yet. I can't rip copies of HD-DVDs from Netflix affordably...uh...I mean, I can't make back-up copies of HD-DVDs that I legally purchased from my favorite online provider and/or retail outlet...ahem...and frankly, with an great upscaling DVD player...it's just great. Are movies full high-def? Nope. But they're great, and I have hi-def channels. The drama, rights mananagment issues, 1080p nonsense...I just don't get the feeling either one of these formats offers enough advantage to bother with.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Get an LG player that plays BOTH the HD formats...

    by GreatWhiteNoise

    Coming late to the party here, I know, but I believe LG is the first company to make a player that will play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats. Why choose when you can have it both ways?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 7:09 p.m. CST

    laughing

    by earl of sandwich

    The regurgitated hyperbole that get's thrown around is laughable. Read an actual home theare article that details actual specs and uses aknowleged industry test material to make an informed opinion on what the various players and formats can actaully do. No one on this site can tell the differance between 1080i & 1080p on a decent display (unless Joe Kane is posting under DarthCock2000). And as for which format will win, look at the track records of both sides stakeholders and follow the bottom line and you'll see......HD is going to suprise some people in 08.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 7:40 p.m. CST

    the resolution argument is bullshit

    by lynxpro

    Every time I read some fool online claiming they can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i on anything less than a 50" tv is automatically labeled a dumbass in my opinion. Why? Because anyone with decent eye sight can tell the difference between 800x600, 1024x768, and 1280x1024 on a mere 17" or 19" computer monitor. "1080" is 1920x1080 regardless of the size of television you own. There is also a big difference between interlaced (i) and progressive (p) scan regardless of what people claim. Interlaced is standard on NTSC analog broadcast television. Interlaced imaging is the very reason why a football passed in air is blurred on the screen (from it spinning); if it is a progressive image, there is no blur. I realize that Hercules has never watched a football game in her life and prefers any pablum spewed forth by Joss Whedon, but that does not mean there is not a difference. It is the very reason why Capital Cities/ABC (what it was known before the Disney takeover) chose to back 720p for HD on both ABC and its ESPN properties, instead of moving to 1080i which the majority of other broadcasters chose. 1080p has all of the advantages of 720p, but with 360 more lines of resolution in progressive scan. I also would not trust the home video "expertise" of many of the AICN staff since a mere 2 years ago, some of them were saying that D-VHS would replace DVD. Just change "D-VHS" to "HD DVD", and its the same story all over again. As for the Toshiba HD DVD fire sale, I seem to recall the same thing happening for Beta and RCA's CED back in the mid 80s. Let the buyer beware. But if you must pick up a cheap HD DVD player, try selecting an open-box unit from either Best Buy or Circuit City for $80 or so. You should still qualify to get 2 free HD DVD titles in store, and as long as you get the box with the UPC bar code/proof of purchase, you probably should still be able to qualify for the 5 free HD DVDs through the mail.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 7:51 p.m. CST

    To answer a question - NO, digitalbits makes no fucking...

    by tmifune78

    sense. "Being super bargain shoppers, they aren't likely to want to pay $30 for an HD-DVD movie either. I'd bet many of the people who jump on this sale will either be using them primarily as upconverting DVD players, or they're already diehard HD-DVD supporters and are buying them as second players. For those regular consumers who take the bait, I wonder how they'll feel when they realize they can't play those big Disney titles in the "blu" boxes due next week." So his claim is that those same bargain-shopper 'dumbasses' that wouldn't know that HD-DVD doesn't play Disney flicks would want to buy an HD-DVD player to upconvert thier DVDs?...Gimme a fucking break...the sad part is all the Blu-Ray fanatics who listen to this guy's BS like it's gospel, refusing to get a HD-DVD player out of inane stubborness...but Hunt himself HAS a HD-DVD player where I bet my nuts he enjoys every single HD-DVD exclusive title that comes out...all the while talking shit about the format...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 7:55 p.m. CST

    furthermore, on exclusives...

    by lynxpro

    The exclusive Blu-ray studios are Fox, Disney (which means Disney, Buena Vista, Touchstone, Miramax and Dimension), Sony (Columbia/Tri-Star, Sony Classic, Screen Gems, and MGM/UA. Although MGM stuff is now distributed by Fox. Warner is format neutral, but even though they own intellectual property on HD DVD, are supposedly looking at going Blu-ray exclusive. New Line, which is Warner's sister company, is also releasing many titles on Blu-ray 6 months before HD DVD because some of their films are still playing in parts of Europe and the rest of the world so they actually like the region coding.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:18 p.m. CST

    digitalbits never sold out...

    by lynxpro

    Thedigitalbits never sold out; they've always supported the best format for the time. It was a decade ago when they rallied the online community in favor of DVD and against Circuit City's DIVX. And now, they've backed Blu-ray. I see no inconsistency with their approach. But alas, some "hackers" from France hacked the site...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:47 p.m. CST

    I got one...

    by Refuge5

    from Walmart - I would have done the Best Buy thing had I known about it... I'll get a Blu Ray too, when they sell for $100...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 8:50 p.m. CST

    American Gangster, Beowulf, Sweeny Todd....HD-DVD Only!!

    by tmifune78

    That's an impressive list of Blu-Ray exclusive studios yet looking at how the big titles this holiday break down by format, I gotta say bummer for Blu-Ray only owners...Besides the aforementioned American Gangster, Beowulf (c'mon...that's a killer app) and Sweeny Todd (another killer), HD-DVD gets Bee Movie, Charlie Wilson's War (w/Tom Hanks) and There Will Be Blood...and that Cloverfield monster flick from JJ Abrams in January? yep, HD-DVD exclusive. Blu-Ray? National Treasure 2 and Alien Vs. Predator 2...ouch. The Golden Compass and I Am Legend are dual...there are, of course, smaller flicks in both camps I failed to mention but those are the biggies...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:01 p.m. CST

    BR

    by Quint

    There's no doubt that Blu-Ray is dominating this quarter in terms of exclusive releases, thanks mostly to Anchor Bay finally putting some stuff out. Add on to that Pixar's last two movies and Close Encounters, it's a good quarter for BR. HD's exclusive biggies are Battlestar Galactica and Transformers, which did amazingly well. The Blu-Ray people are smart and they aren't going to let this go unchecked, but if there really are 200,000 A2s hitting homes in a week, then you can't deny that'll have some impact on HD-DVD sales as well. I'm very curious to see what Blu-Ray's next step is...<BR><BR>And about region encoding, I know on my HD-DVD player all HD-DVD are region free, which is fantastic (T2 looks so much better on HD than BR and has the director's cut to boot), but I think the guy above that was complaining about it was talking about the standard region encoding for regular DVDs. So all SD DVDs are region specific on the Toshibas, which sucks, but I have an upconverting SD DVD player already that is region free, so it's no big deal for me.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST

    tmifune78, great point!

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    Now if only we could get the Alien movies, the Die Hard movies, the Pixar movies, the James Bond movies, the Terminator movies, the Predator movies, any of the Disney classics, the X-Men movies, The Spider-Man movies, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the Indiana Jones movies, Fight Club, The Abyss, Moulin Rouge, The Rocky Movies, Robocop, any Quentin Tarantino movies, any Robert Rodriguez movies, or TV shows like The Simpsons, 24, Lost, Seinfeld, Buffy, Angel, The X-Files or Grey's Anatomy on HD-DVD, I'm sold!

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:21 p.m. CST

    LIGHTSTORMER...great point yourself!!

    by tmifune78

    As a Blu-Ray owner, I do bet you want about 80% of the titles you mentioned...alas, not yet my friend, not yet....and Indian Jones? are you effing serious?...the Lucasfilm franchises will not hit HD for a long, long time...Every title I mentioned, however? Fo' Sure...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:22 p.m. CST

    so i just got this

    by KyleKrane

    i went into best buy (located right next to best buy HQ btw) and got the HD-A3 with 300 and bourne. grabbed batman begins and hot fuzz and plan on getting the 5 hd dvds through the mail. total was $219. not bad at all.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:30 p.m. CST

    oh and if you want a cheap HDTV

    by KyleKrane

    go to phillips' refurbished site. got a 720p 50in plasma for $1000 off.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:08 p.m. CST

    HD-DVD space is too small!

    by Johnno

    Fucking Transformers couldn't have both high quality audio and bonus content! Paramount themselves stated so! That's a sure fucking sign that the format isn't in your best interests. Go with the technologically superior one that offers far more space than HD-DVD ever will. By the time HD-DVD gets to 51GBs, Blu-Ray may well achieve 200GB. It's just fucking common sense. Blu-Ray prices will go down, just have some patience and save the world the short sighted trouble of settling for a lower capacity disc. Don't sell-out to some short end format to save a little dough... think of the fucking children!<br><br>And speaking of attach rates and all that, some statistics revealed that the majority of people who own PS3s don't even fucking realize that it can play blu-ray discs... hell many don't even know the 360 plays DVDs... I don't know who these people are but they seem to think those were just game consoles. So someone ought to get their advertising firms running and spell it out to the vast majority of consumers about just what the fuck these next gen systems do. If you're that worried aboutt eh format war and want to get some HD movies, then buy a freakin PS3. They're $399 now! If blu-ray goes under by some sheer miracle, then you still have a games console that does a bunch of other things, so no money wasted because games and blu-ray are a mandatory part of teh PS3 and not soem add-on...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Light Stormer

    by Jay Mammoth

    Tarintino flick Death Proof will be out in the UK in January, and The Weinstein company own the rights to Kill Bill The Whole Bloody Affair. Planet Terror will also be out on HD in Feb. for import.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:25 p.m. CST

    Funny thing, tmifune...

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    last time I checked, "a long, long time" is still a lot shorter than "never." As in, "the titles I mentioned will never be on HD-DVD." And of the titles you mentioned, at least Beowulf, Sweeny Todd, Bee Movie, Cloverfield and There Will Be Blood (provided the home video rights don't go to Miramax,) are Paramount or Dreamworks. And the clock on the Paramount HD-DVD exclusivity arrangement is at 16 and a half months and counting. <p> Truth to tell, though, I'm totally with Bill Hunt on this one. I don't HATE HD-DVD. I just support Blu-ray. What I hate is that there's a fucking format war in the first place. And if you take a minute to look, you'll notice that Hunt and DigitalBits went to great lengths to prevent this whole fucking mess from starting in the first place. You probably look at it as Sony's fault for insisting on Blu-Ray. Personally, I don't know if the same couldn't be said for Toshiba and HD-DVD. All I know is the majority of tech companies and movie studios went Blu. Microsoft and Universal went Red. Things seemed to be tipped in a direction that I was willing to go with. But then the war started - PS3; X-Box; price wars; sales numbers; Paramount; Toshiba & Microsoft paying companies off; catch-phrases like " product attachment"... the whole thing pisses me off.<p> Like I said above, I was going to buy one of the cheapie A2's or even maybe an A3, but I decided not to add fuel to Toshiba's fire. Plus, I just don't want to contribute to this HD-DVD zealotry. <p> And, yeah, Bill Hunt has an HD-DVD player. And, yes, he does give credit to HD-DVD movies when he reviews them. He doesn't HATE the format, and he doesn't "talk shit about the format" like you say. He's actually very complimentary about the format itself. He just seems to think Toshiba's selling tactics are unsavory, and I'm right there with him.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:27 p.m. CST

    1080i vs 1080p

    by iontyre

    Read this very carefully. 1080p televisions are ALWAYS displaying a 1080p image. ALWAYS!!!! Doesn't matter what you feed it, it will either upscale, deinterlace, or both to get the image to 1080p. If the signal has less than 1080 lines (480i, 480p, 720p) then it has to upscale, and therefore the 1080p image that results will be inferior to a source that includedd 1080 lines of resolution. However, if the source material is 1080i, then the source already has 1080 lines of resolution!! The tv does not need to upscale at all, it only deinterlaces. NO new information is added to the image. The resulting 1080p image you see on the 1080p tv will be identical to the same image if it were 1080p from the source. The A2 simply relies on the 1080p tv to do the deinterlacing instead of doing it for the TV. But the supplied picture information is IDENTICAL to that from a 1080p source. IDENTICAL!!!!

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:27 p.m. CST

    Jay Mammoth

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    To be fair, I admit I was kind of fuzzy on whether the Weinstein Company is red or blue. But In general, I was talking about domestic studio distribution.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Digital Bits 'rallied' the online community?!?

    by CatVutt

    Against fucking Circuit City and DIVX? Oh. Gee, I was wondering why that universally loathed format went down in flames. Silly me, I always thought it had somethin' to do with that UNIVERSALLY LOATHED FORMAT thing.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:38 p.m. CST

    And by the way...

    by iontyre

    As long as there are networks like ESPN-HD that broadcast in 720p, I don't want a 1080p tv. Downscaling is ALWAYS preferable to upscaling from a viewing standpoint. And since my set is actually 768p, I'm in a nice middle ground as far as upscale/downscale. 1080p has nothing to offer me now.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:39 p.m. CST

    Honeslty...who cares

    by tme2nsb

    who wins this war. Toshiba just upped the ante with this huge sale through Best Buy and Wal-Mart...kind of evens out the playing field. My wife snatched up two of these bitches and I will be putting them on eBay in the next two days starting at $10...if anyone is interested, I will post a link later on whenever.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Is that desperation I smell?

    by SifoDyasJr.

    Both formats are going to ultimately fail. The leap between VHS and DVD was huge. The leap between DVD and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray... eh, not so much. There are maybe 10 movies that I'd care to have a near perfect image for, otherwise, plain old cheap DVD's are good enough for me and will be good enough for the public at large.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:12 p.m. CST

    Lightstormer...dude...

    by tmifune78

    you seem confused...why do you assume the Lucasfilm franchises will be on Blu-Ray and will "never" appear on HD-DVD? My point is that both formats could be in the ground before Lucasfilm puts Indiana Jones or Star Wars out on either format...And you're clinging all your hopes on the 16 months deal?...a lot can happen in 16 months, man, just ask Blu-Ray concerning Paramount/Dreamworks...and with the telling move of WB not renewing their membership in the BDA...if Blu-Ray loses Warner Brothers and New Line, the writing could be on the wall...it's all about perception. Fox will drop next, Disney a little later and then Sony will have no choice to chalk up the PS3 (a moderate disappointment as a game machine...I mean c'mon...Xbox360 has HUGE exclusive successes like Gears of War, Halo 3, Bioshock..upcoming HUGE games Mass Effect and Ninja Gaiden 2...and the PS3? Ratchet and Clank?)as their 'Gamecube' or 'XBOX' and move onto the PS4 by 2010...that's one scenario anyway...

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:22 p.m. CST

    Metaluna has his facts WRONG....

    by Raschied

    Anyone who thinks that 720 isn't HD has their facts fucking WRONG. Analog signals used to use a term of measurement called "lines of resolution," which referred to how quickly the recording medium (or scan gun in a TV) could switch from 0v to 1v (black to white.) Look at old test signals, and you'll see a series of top-to-bottom black and white lines. These charts were used. When the black and white stripes blended together, you exceeded the resolution of the recording (or display) device. Analog NTSC has always had 525 scan lines, and only about 486 of those were used for image playback. SD video, when digitized, typically has a resolution of 720x480. 720p has a resolution of 1280x720. Do your fucking homework.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Lynxpro has some interesting points, but still needs to do homew

    by Raschied

    Your analogy of seeing a difference on a computer monitor is true - you will see a diff between 800x600 and 1024x768. However, would your desktop look any different if you took an 800x600 image and scaled it up to 1024x768? Probably not - the image would look grainy. This is the effect of a poor scalar in a 1080p television. Okay - onto your point of frame rate: Most sports need high frame rate. 30p is too slow (1/30th of a second between pictures) for most sports. Ideally, 60p or higher would look fantastic, but the data rate is just too high with current technology. With interlaced, you get the better motion of 60 frames at the data rate of 30 frames, so it's the best solution for sports today. (trivia: the NFL Films people shoot those beautiful slo motion shots at 120 frames per second!)

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    The 1080i issue on this player...

    by Raschied

    ...is a super complicated one, and probably beyond the average viewer. Film is shot at 24 fps. To display this in North America at 59.94 fields per second, there's a process applied called telecine, which creates additional fields out of combining images. This process has been used for 40 years to put films onto video-based formats. The video encoded onto a DVD is stored in this 59.94i format. There are certain DVD players that will convert this back to 24p using a process called "inverse telecine," which selectively removes the additional frames. This is handled by a dedicated real-time circuit in the player. With Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, a movie is stored at the native 24p format. output frame rate is handled by realtime circuitry, which can telecine the 24p into 59.94i in real time. Some televisions can run an "inverse telecine" filter on the incoming signal, but I've never seen how well this works on a 1080p television. A lot can go wrong. :)

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 11:52 p.m. CST

    It's all moot anyway...

    by Raschied

    I'm sitting here looking at some footage shot on the new RED camera, at 4096x2048 resolution (24p.) Peter Jackson used this format for a short film earlier in the year. Trust me when I say it looks fantastic on a Sharp 4k plasma monitor. 1080p? Please bitch.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:37 a.m. CST

    I just bought an A3.

    by FalconJones

    only $200 AND 9 movies? thats a helluva a deal. now can anyone tell me the facts on HDMI cables? is there really a difference between the $20 cables online and the $100 Monster cable they tried to sell me at BestBuy?

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:47 a.m. CST

    falcon

    by Quint

    Nope. Buy 'em cheap online. In-store, especially at Best Buy, is marked up crazy high.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:51 a.m. CST

    well right now im only buying action movies anyway

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    like 300, casino royale, spiderman (well i wanted the br trilogy but there was no special features on 1 or 2), pirates 1 and 2 because those are titles that actually benifit from being in hd. now if you guys are buying dramas like crash or brokeback mountain or any other dramas, you obiviously wont be satisfied to much because all youll see is high defintion tears and gay sex.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:55 a.m. CST

    and you aslo dont need to buy comidies in hd yet

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    im just sticking with mainly action until one format wins, then i might re-buy some of those for bluray. but i could care less if a comedy or dramam is in hd. and one question: how come batman begins isnt on bluray yet?

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:57 a.m. CST

    spelling errors

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    the edit button on this site ROCKS

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:57 a.m. CST

    spelling errors

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    the edit button on this site ROCKS

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1 a.m. CST

    shit double post

    by aicndoesntwantmorecowbell

    well im just fuckin up now arent i ?

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:07 a.m. CST

    Fuck it - buy both formats

    by IndyJonze

    That's what I did a while ago. Rent through Netflix until the situation moves in one direction or the other and then purchase your library accordingly - or invest in just a handful of beloved titles. But once you're tated hi def, you can't go back. And that's the truth.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:09 a.m. CST

    quint

    by FalconJones

    thanks. thats what i thought. i just watched transformers on the new A3. non-tatooed megan fox in HD = awesomeness.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 1:25 a.m. CST

    Blu-Ray - better tech - poor implementation

    by DoogieHowitzer

    Very sad that Sony dropped the ball on their rollout of Blu-Ray. As with the Hard Drive technology in PCs - I think they assumed the higher data-density would win them the war, but they were dead wrong. I'm going Blu-Ray because in the long run the discs can simply hold more data - PERIOD. I think the studios are foolish for taking sides - a sure way to lose money-cutting an entire demographic off.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 2:10 a.m. CST

    Just bought my A3

    by Mastidon

    Best Buy is now giving away 8 DVDs - the 5 by mail and 3 instant! Don't know if there are still 2 more in the box. Now my only question is does the player's power supply support 220 or only 110?

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 3:31 a.m. CST

    metaluna - incorrect

    by TS Thomas

    "You wanna buy some cheap loss leader player, go right ahead. It'll be out of date with its software in months." Actually, that's not correct - look at Blu-Ray Profile 1.1 - that renders all prior gen. players incompatible with 1.1 features, e.g. picture-in-picture commenataries. Conversely HD DVD having a set standard from the start has none of these issues. A 1st gen HD DVD player can, say, play 300's picture-in-picture feature just the same as a new Toshiba A3 can. When Sunshine gets released on Blu-Ray next year however only new Blu-Ray Profile 1.1 players will be able to do so. Not only that, but Sony have already talked up Profile 1.2 / 2 for next year, so imagine that - even these just released Profile 1.1 Blu-Ray players will not be fully compatible with future Blu-Ray releases either!

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 3:47 a.m. CST

    FalconJones - HDMI cables

    by TS Thomas

    Depends on who you ask really... technically it should all be the same, but in reality distance & shielding can have an effect. But, why buy it from BestBuy when you can get it online cheaper? try http://www.shopallmonster.com or other retailer.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 4:04 a.m. CST

    TS Thomas

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    Maybe I read your post wrong, but... you're not actually saying HD-DVD players haven't needed firmware upgrades, are you?

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 4:23 a.m. CST

    tmifune

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    Hey, you got me there. When I responded to your "long, long time" comment, I thought it was in reference to the whole list of titles I mentioned, not the Lucasfilm movies. So, my bad. <p> And I do realize Camp Lucas stated they would wait out the whole mess until there was one clear winner before releasing the SW films in an HD format. But I was mainly referring to the fact that even when Paramount & Dreamworks issued their press release about their big selling out to Toshiba, they included the caveat that Spielberg films were not part of the deal. That to me was a pretty telling detail in itself, but I'm sure you have some way of looking at it as some sort of compliment to HD-DVD. I mean, that's really all I see in this whole stupid format war: both sides using the same information, spun to support their own argument. <p> So keep spinning, my friend. And when the day comes that you are proven right, and ALL the studio support for Blu-Ray "crumbles," and they all kiss Toshiba's ass to get their movies released on HD DVD, I will gladly go out and buy Toshiba's brand new $30 HD-DVD player (they'll never be able to sell their shit at full price anymore, after all,) and you can rest assured that you were right all along - that Blu-Ray was a stupid waste of time. <p> Until then, the Blu-Ray haters like yourself can go suck a dick, for all I care. Little X-Box fanboys aren't about to change my mind or my buying habits.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 5:21 a.m. CST

    This Xmas: HD-DVD drives still get outsold by 40GB PS3

    by spire_walk

    Oh wait I forgot... HD-DVD camp doesn't count the PS3 in its sales figures because it's not standalone. Yeah, tie Blu-ray's legs together and move the goal post back a little. You might be able to spin it as a victory. </p> Price drop out of desperation. </p> Blu Ray lowers its price too, and maintains a 2:1 lead. </p> It's Tranformers VS Spiderman 3, Ratatoullie, Cars, Pirates 3, etc. I can go buy a lawnmower for $100, but it's never going to play Spiderman or Disney titles in hi-def either.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 5:53 a.m. CST

    Why choose when you can have it both ways?

    by Iowa Snot Client

    My wife won't let me.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 6:49 a.m. CST

    So how long has this site been pimping HDDVD?

    by FlandersBum

    Haven't bothered with this site much lately, but wow nice pimp job here. I take it there were no such headlines that got bumped constantly when the 2 for 1 blu ray specials were going on a couple weeks back. What are you guys doing with the payola checks from Microsoft/Toshiba?

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 7:08 a.m. CST

    Re: So how long has this site been pimping HDDVD?

    by spire_walk

    Someone had to finance Harry's wedding and honeymoon.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 7:12 a.m. CST

    Spire Walk

    by Jaws Wayne

    Kid, be cool. Who frickin cares about not being able to buy and play Spiderman 3 or Cars in Hi-def. So, 98 dollars or 198 dollars get you either a 2'nd or 3'rd gen HD player with either 5 or 10 movies free of choice including 2001, Bladerunner, The Road Warrior, The Thing, 300, Pan's Labyrinth, Goodfellas, A Clockwork Orange, The Host, Children of Men, Casino, Transformers, Payback, The Matrix, Batman Begins, Darkman and The Bourne Trilogy just to name a couple of fun movies. Hey, I think I can really live without your Blu Ray discs of Spiderman 3 and Cars. Those regionfree Toshiba players are excellent in upconverting your SD collection too, so those wonderful machines are gonna sell like hotcakes, like it or not.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Flanders

    by Quint

    Come on, dude. You have to acknowledge that a DVD sale is different, and less newsworthy, than the first high def player selling for under $100.<BR><BR>There is a bias here, but it's not bought by payola. Harry and I each bought our players without any pressure from anybody. Strangely enough, what made us choose HD was the price. I was going to sit this one out, not get drawn into the HD war, but after seeing Harry's player in action I decided I wanted to go high def. I did a lot of research and just couldn't justify the cost of a stand-alone Blu-Ray player. I had no interest in dumping $500 on a PS3, so that left me with one option and I've enjoyed my high def movies for the last 5 months.<BR><BR>If Toshiba is handing out the cash at AICN, then no one told me. I could use the cash. I need more high def flicks! I still haven't picked up the Kubrick DVDs yet. I'm a deprived geek!

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 10:50 a.m. CST

    HD-DVD HAS NOW WON THE WAR...

    by Bill Clay

    Turn off the light, the party's over. Blue-Ray will never catch up when millions of inexpensive HD-DVD players end up as Xmas presents this year. The average consumer can't see the difference in formats. They want a GOOD PRICE. And HD just dropped the bomb on BR. Me? I'm still using an upconverting DVD player. I'll upgrade after the war is officially over.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Same planet, different worlds

    by kickaha

    Most of these comments miss the point in my opinion. I picked up the A3 from BB for $199, grabbed Clockwork Orange and 2001 (disks I would have bought anyway) for free, plus the other seven (out of some admittedly crappy choices) so wound up with $225 disks for purchasing a $200 player. The A3 is the cheapest component in my HT and is the cheapest early-adopter purchase I've ever made. To me it's a no-brainer and irrelevant if the format dies. I've got my quality and my money's worth now. Additionally, what impresses me most is not the resolution that is debated ad-infinitem (looks like Broadcast HD on my 65" 1080i MITS) but the color rendering. It is Vivid, rock-solid, and gorgeous. I haven't seen the green-gold on Georgie Boys face (Clockwork) since seeing it in the theater. Y'all enjoy your format war, the rest of us will be enjoying our HD and Blu-Ray players.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 12:13 p.m. CST

    The dumping of obsolete players means squat

    by BrowncoatJedi

    I got the A3 deal the others are talking about, but the format war is so far from over. This is just Toshiba clearing the stock gathering dust in warehouses. Big F-ing Deal. Blu Ray manufacturers will be doing the same this holiday, and I'll get blu ray then too.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 12:24 p.m. CST

    Unbelievable Deal!

    by Rando Calrisian

    I went to Best Buy yesterday and picked up the HD-A3 player for $199 plus 9 free movies. At an average of $25 / movie that means Best Buy and Toshiba paid me $25 to take this HD player. That how I look at it. I have a 46" Toshiba HD TV that has been beautiful for the last 3 years, and this will just make it more awesome. Why you all bitch and moan about the format war ir beyond me - IF THERE WAS NO WAR, THEY WOULD STILL BE $600 EACH! <br> <br> Embrace the war, and when Blu Ray is $200 with 9 free movies - NEXT YEAR, I'll get one of those too. By the time the war is decided and all players are $100 for a HD/Blu combo players - then you can join in on the fun. <br> <br> Get over it - you don't have to decide - they both look great.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 12:37 p.m. CST

    So waitaminit...

    by TTMan

    This site's selling out to HD-DVD was based purely on retail price of your home players? Forget technical specs, title availability, industry support and versatility? Wow. Next time, I guess you'll be supporting movies which have lower budgets (you know, those independant art films which usually have more artistic merit and maturity than your next Hollywood spectacle crap) on your site. And I DON'T mean CABIN FEVER.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 12:59 p.m. CST

    waiting for 9d omega player

    by ironic_name

    three dimensions of space, two of time one that oversees the others, the seventh plays the movie in an alternate world, the eighth hunts for food and the ninth acts as a decoy!

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 2:01 p.m. CST

    LlGHTST0RMER - Nope!

    by TS Thomas

    "Maybe I read your post wrong, but... you're not actually saying HD-DVD players haven't needed firmware upgrades, are you?" Nope, I'm not suggesting or referring to that at all that. What I'm speaking of is that Blu-Ray IS NOT YET A FINALISED STANDARD; there's Profile 1.0, 1.1 & in the near future 2.0 (Next year probably)... 1.1 has only just become mandatory. As I was pointing out, HD DVD had an finalised standard right from go. Picture-in-picture, Internet connectivity, etc. were all mandatory features required in the hardware from the start, i.e. if you had a 1st gen HD DVD player (e.g. Toshiba HD-A1) & a 3rd gen HD DVD player (e.g. Toshiba HD-A3) both would be able to fully utilize every single feature of ANY HD DVD - new or old. Conversely with Blu-Ray the same cannot be said, as I mentioned Sunshine will be a Profile 1.1 supporting title - that means certain features will NOT be available on Profile 1.0 players.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 2:05 p.m. CST

    LlGHTST0RMER - Nope! Pt. 2

    by TS Thomas

    Sorry, just to clarify; firmware updates generally have no effect on standards support, rather providing fixes or updates to other things, e.g. 1080P/24 output. Can a firmware update add an Ethernet port to a Blu-Ray player that doesn't have it? Nope ;) Can it add a secondary video & / or audio decoder to a Blu-Ray player that doesn't have it? Nope.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 2:07 p.m. CST

    NOT 9 MOVIES BUT 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by webhaven

    Hey folks; just thought I'd make a quick post. After being disappointed in not getting an A2 at Wal-Mart on Friday I saw this updated thread going where it indicated that Best Buy is offering the A3 for $199. Well I instantly checked this out in my area in Minnesota and only one store around the cities had any left. Any how in their Sunday ad they had teh A3 advertised for $299 but had to drop it to $199 this week to get into the mix this weekend of all the hype. What the ad states is that you get 5 Free movies for the mail-in rebate PLUS 3 FREE HD-DVD movies of your choice INSTANTLY... Plus you also get the two movies that come in the box with the A3 which are Bourne Identity and 300. When all is said and done you get 10 movies for FREE not 9 per their Sunday ad. So I rushed out to my local BB that had them in stock and grabbed one of the last few A3's they had remaining. I tried to stay out of getting into this format war as it has me concerned; but this deal was just too good to pass up. I truly think that HD-DVD will Prevail as the winner eventually or at the very least we have dual formats which the consumers will accept and the studios see that and will offer both formats. This 1080i vs. 1080p talk is BS by the way... The smart people know that...

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 2:23 p.m. CST

    If they sell out of HD-DVD

    by INWOsuxRED

    won't that just make it easier for Blue Ray to sell their players at a price closer to profit, or possibly even profit? If the blue-rays sell a bit slower, but closer to profit, who wins?

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Homework, Raschied?

    by metaluna

    I've worked as a TV cameraman for 20 years so I think I know my resolutions, thanks and I have no idea what you're referring to technically - I think it's some bullshit from the interwebs you misquote. If I had my cameras serviced by you and you spoke to me in that way, I'd be very worried. A PAL (sorry don't do NTSC which has less res in SD) TV camera has always resolved 750 lines which is then cut down to 625 for broadcast, the additional lines being used in the broadcast signal for data like text. No one in my business considers 720 to be HD apart from the sad losers who bought those sets and wont admit they bought a dead horse and the dinks who bought that JVC camera. 720 lines are 720 lines interlaced or progressive, it's just how the pack is shuffled that's the difference. Please don't try and hoodwink the general public otherwise, it isn't nice. Everyone should at least be aiming at 1080 lines of goodness, not some half assed compromise. Goodnight.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 4:04 p.m. CST

    by Dark Knight Lite

    Got the A2 at WallyWorldMart at 8am Friday. Pretty pleased with the quality, I must say.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Jaws Wayne

    by spire_walk

    Kid? I'm a 30 year old army officer, I own a house, and I'm married with a baby on the way. By the way, the majority of those titles you mentioned are also on Blu-Ray, and BD players can upconvert as well. <p> Truth is that while these 100,000 or so cheap HD players sold out, so did all the 40GB PS3's. <p> And the audio on Transformers sucked by the way. It was standard DVD audio, because they didn't have the space on the disc for PCM sound. Don't you see, your precious format is already obsolete. You can't get a full Hi-Def experience out of it. If that's the sort of half-assed upgrade you want to do, then you're an idiot that's screwing the rest of us over in the process if Hd wins, which I highly doubt it will, because all the $99 players are sold out... which accounts for a blip on the format war radar. Luckily more and more 40GB PS3's are being made.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 5:20 p.m. CST

    $99 is the magic number

    by prr643

    You can debate the current number of titles, or the difference between 1080p and 1080i until the cows come home. None of it will make a lick of difference in the end. The winner will be who gets the most players out there, and this is to joe-schmo consumer, not the niche market of XBox or PS gamers who are on average more willing to pay $400-$600 for a system. When Bob Q. Public can walk in to Wal-Mart and purchase a player at that $99 price the game is over. The format that reaches a consistent $99 or cheaper price point wins. The studios will fall in line with whomever sells the most players, cheaper player will get the volume of sales. The studios will all fall in line behind the winner. Right now I'd predict HD-DVD for the simple reason that the set top players have been consistently cheaper. Sony lost the VCR battle for the same reasons, they had a better technology, but for whatever reason could not get it out cheaper then VHS. Personally, I think BD has a edge technologically because of it's larger capacity. But to the average consumer HD and BD are so similar that tech won't win the ball game, price will.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Ah yes...

    by spire_walk

    The most common HD-DVD argument, "The average consumer is too cheap and too uninformed to realize Blu-ray is the superior format."

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 6:40 p.m. CST

    Spire_walk, that's what I love about this whole thing...

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    If the HDD people have their way, and everything works out for their side, then what a victory: "Hooray! Everyone bought the cheap shit! The worse product won!"

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Blu-Ray has "No Porn" rule...gonna lose!!!

    by bgart13

    One could then say... Blu-Ray:beta :: HD-DVD:vhs? Hmm, wait'n'see, wait'n'see...

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Spire

    by Jay Mammoth

    You talk shit about Transformers not having true HD sound, but guess what? It still scored a perfect 5 star rating on hi-def digest. The Transformers disc sounds much better than any of my Blu-ray discs.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Metaluna is still full of shit...

    by Raschied

    Again, Metaluna, your 20 years of being behind the camera still don't grant you an engineering degree. "Lines of resolution" is not the same thing as scan lines. Just google the term "Kell Factor" and you might start to understand the difference. Since you speak PAL, I'll try to break it down for you. The PAL signal has 625 scan lines, of which only 576 are used for picture. Where you are quoting 750 lines from I have no idea, but it's bullshit unless you can quote me a source. I'm pulling my numbers from Newnes Television and Video Engineer's Pocket Book, published 1992. If you are referring to analog "lines of resolution," it's true that there were analog cameras (both NTSC and PAL) that were accurate enough to show up to 1200 lines of resolution in a composite signal, provided you used both a high quality camera and a short cable run to a high-quality monitor. I once saw an Ikegami demo rig just like that. But that is analog, baby. If we are talking digital PAL gear, then your camera has a fixed amount of pixels - 720x576. 720<1280. 576<720. See? To say that 720p isn't HD is bullshit. Here's a visual aid for those of you (like Metaluna) who need it: http://tinyurl.com/2u3epa Now - is 1080 better? YES! But 720p is still a VAST improvement over SD formats. And, it'll display 720p broadcasts better than most 1080p televisions out there.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 8:17 p.m. CST

    Don't use "less than" or "greater than" signs..

    by Raschied

    ..in your post, or the board cuts off the last half.. What I was trying to say before being rudely interrupted was that 1280 pixels is greater than 720 pixels, and 720 pixels are greater than 576 pixels. Can we agree on that, Metaluna? Here's a visual aid to help you understand: http://tinyurl.com/2u3epa Now, is 1080 better res? Absolutely! But a 1080 television will also bring out the flaws in 720p broadcasts, of which there are quite a few in the states. Until 1080 is adopted as a universal standard, there's nothing wrong with buying a 720p television.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 8:49 p.m. CST

    missing a point

    by Omega_Cell

    What this move by Toshiba and Wal-mart does, and does well, is install a greater user base. The goal of manufacturers right now, shouldn't be the early adopter, but your average joes. This sale is tailored to the more average consumer who doesn't have 400 or 500 to blow everytime a new HD or BR player hits the market. The $99 player is going to sell, and sell fast, which immediately allows those average joes the chance to start getting movies. Later on, they'll have a library of HDDVDs to consider when buying their next player. Basically what the sale does, is give more people a longer time period to build their library up while the more advanced hardware filters down to prices the everyday purchaser can handle. When they buy again, it'll be HD, not BR.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 9:08 p.m. CST

    SHillerific HD DVDers amuse me.

    by Boober

    Blu-ray will not die. Japan: 9:1 Europe: 4:1 US: Every week this year, including TF week, Nielsen Ratings show BR software sales winning. Keep lying to yourselves and spin it however you want, be it that PS3s don't count statistically or that all PS3 owners are tards who don't do Blu-ray movies (laughable -even if the attach rate is 25% of what standalones are, do the math). Home Theatre Enthusiasts prefer Blu-ray something like 94% to 6%. So yeah, go bargain-basement firesale hunting and feel good about yourselves, but don't expect support for the format to ever be great when sellers can't make a profit off of sub $100 units and studio support is compromised. There, counterargument entered.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Yes, tailhook.

    by Boober

    You fail to see that I DON'T fail to see the economics aspect you are talking about. When you show me that the A2 firesale results in the millions you speak of, I'll submit. Toshiba is leveraging to the extreme because they are currently LOSING the software sales battle via saturation and attachment rates on a WORLD-WIDE scale. And now, because Walmart has a contractual obligation to move these A2 models, you think the war is over? We can do numbers if you like. Let's wait and see what Q4 sales numbers (Hardware and software) look like for Japan, Europe, and the US, and then marry them to studio support and CE support, and then we'll see if the A2/A3 sales were the genesis of the Blu-ray apocalypse.

  • Nov. 4, 2007, 10:24 p.m. CST

    The Best format doesn't always win

    by DarkhawkPrime

    History, especially in home video, has shown that the best format doesn't always win. The Sony backed Betamax was better than VHS. Hell even laserdisc was better than VHS. But they didn't win because of price. With that being said, I currently own both formats. I first got the XBOX HD addon one year ago, and I got a PS3 in July. In my honest opinion, I like HD much better and here's why, more interactive features on HD DVD. The Warner in movie experience, and Universal's U-conrol are a film or television fan's dream. The 300 HD's in movie experience which show you the original shot(non-bluescreen) in the corner of the film with Zach Snyder explaining the process was a treat. The bluray 300, which I also own, didn't have that feature because it's was required on bluray players. Plus HD DVD offers combo discs (One side HD DVD the flip side is standard DVD) which until friday helped me because I could view the hd version in the living room, and the standard DVD in the bedroom. I know all of the bluray fans will say blu holds more data, and umcompressed sound, but bluray screwed up by shipping a format without universal standards. I do like how bluray disc have an extra layer of protection against scratches and fingerprints. I just wonder which of the blu studios will jump to neutral. If people remember 1998, Fox and Disney were both doubting the value of DVD, and when they did release their films they were non anamorphic and priced about 10 bucks more. My bet goes with Fox, who will release a statement saying " The fans spoke and we listened" I'm sure their first wave will be bare bones and retailing for 35-40 bucks.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 12:25 a.m. CST

    by LlGHTST0RMER

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 12:27 a.m. CST

    Is this TB broken or is it just me?

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    I try to read posts and I get nothing but big, blank whiteness. Like looking at George Bush during a debate.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 12:31 a.m. CST

    I don't have a Blu-Ray player, but...

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    My 360 add-on looks fucking fantastic and that's all there is too it. Doesn't anyone see or worry that Sony will have a monopoly in a sense if they end up winning? They'll be a movie studio in control of the technology, I just don't see how that's a viable position for other studios to want to be in. But what's convenient about being on either side right now is that even if the one you haven't chosen wins, you'll still have your original player to watch the movies you already bought, and I assume Combo players will get cheaper and cheaper which will allow you to watch all your movies anywhere in your house.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 12:32 a.m. CST

    Lights0rmer, looks like it's just you, your one post...

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    before you asking if TB is fucked is blank, but for me, everything else is fine.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 12:43 a.m. CST

    by tmifune78

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Okay. Fixed now. And Nick'sAICNsn...

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    The other studios seem fine with Sony having developed Blu-Ray, because it was actually developed in conjunction with 9 other major tech companies. That's why there are so many different Blu-Ray player manufacturers (Toshiba is still presently the only major HDD manufacturer, though I hear some one else has one on the horizon, not counting the Asian knockoff tech companies also coming soon.) The only studio that wasn't down with Blu was Universal, and they were already in bed with Toshiba & Microsoft from the get-go. Paramount had to be bought, Warner's had a piece of the percentage of HDD as an extension of the orginal DVD spec they had a big stake in since the 90's, and the rest of the studios (Fox, Disney, MGM, and of course, Sony,) decided to go Blu. <p> And as far as combo players go, I'd love for that to happen, but there's only one out on the market, if I'm not mistaken, and it's about $1200. I'm sure the price will go down eventually, but how quickly and how much can't even be guessed at this point in time.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 1:05 a.m. CST

    By the way, whatever happened to...

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    my favorite Pro-HD-DVD argument; the one that went something like, "Blu-Ray will NEVER succeed, and for one simple reason: HD-DVD has "DVD" right in the NAME! People don't know what the hell "Blu-Ray" is! It sounds too different! But they know what HD means, and they know what DVDs are... it's a foregone conclusion that Blu-Ray will never sell shit, because Joe Q. Sixpack doesn't even know what the fuck it is!" Aaahhh... at least the Red camp makes some better arguments these days. I'll give you that.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 1:24 a.m. CST

    And I'll pause from my BR position to ask a question

    by LlGHTST0RMER

    And I swear here that I'm being as objective and neutral as possible when I ask this: What is the benefit for other tech manufacturers to start making HD-DVD players when people only become hevily interested in buying them for $100 (or even $200) in a single weekend fire sale? If you were Phillips or JVC or Hitachi, would that seem like a good deal for you to invest in a line of HDD players if they had to be sold for no more than $200? <p> Again, I ask that with no intended irony or snarkiness. Isn't there at least some weight to that argument?

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 4:41 a.m. CST

    Wall-Market?

    by Napoleon Park

    Like I'm going to buy a tape player at a drug store. Tchah.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 5:56 a.m. CST

    Price Is Right

    by Mastidon

    EVen Drew Carey knows that $99 is a better deal than $500. Come on down, the next contestant to buy a DVD player will be buying an HD one. I could really care less either way. Fact is I bought the $199 A3 BECAUSE it was $199 with 10 free movies. If BR had the same deal, I would buy that one too. Can't beat the price, buy 10 movies and get a free player. The real deal here is royalties folks. Toshiba gets a cut on every disk sold. WHo cares about the player when you can make $1 a disk? Just think of HP and the printer model, give the printer away for free and make money on the toner. Much smarter in the long run.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 6:27 a.m. CST

    My bad!

    by ForvalakaFobic

    That will teach me to rely on info from accquaintences whose enthusiasm for certain pursuits,(in this case audio/video equipment), in no way qualifies them as an expert. Big thanks out to DarkhawkPrime and Quint for bringing me up to speed on the savory regionfreeness of HD DVD! Despite my determined efforts to avoid doing so I still learn something new everyday. Guess I'll go back to sitting quietly on the fence until the end of the format war. Thanks again guys.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Lightst0rmer, (oops forgot the t last time)...

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    Well if the Blu-Ray Disc is so much the developers dream, then why is it some much more complicated and costly to develop and manufacture them? As for the Combo players, LG was the first apparently, but Samsung has come on board and I believe I saw an article stating they wanted to sell one at $600. And as for your tech manufacturers question, it might not be potentially viable at the MOment, but for the most part, so few people in America have gotten on-board the HD or BR train, that any way to encourage the populace to get on board a new technology is beneficial. And I would assume the best way to do that is cheap cheap players.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Best Buy still going...

    by Mastidon

    Just checked and Best Buy is still selling the A3 for $199 with the 10 free disks. However, it is now backordered. I ordered mine yesterday and got confirmation that it shipped today. FYI, the cheapest dedicated BR player they are selling costs $449.

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Come on, Guys...

    by Rando Calrisian

    When I went in to inquire about the HD-A2s this weekend, Best Buy said that they were no longer going to carry that model. The A2s that are hitting Walmart are basically a discontinued model that has been replaced by the A3. <br> <br> Still, the A2 for $98 with 5 free movie is a pretty awesome deal! Some kids get an allowance like that these days... punkasses. <br> <br> I went ahead and purchased the A3 because I wanted to see HD-DVD on my system at home, and $200 with 10 free movies is not a bad way to start. I can't believe people are complaining about this war so much. Without the format "War" it would have been a VERY long time before these players became affordable to Joe Q. If you already shelled out the big bucks and bought a Blu-Ray player or PS3, $200 is nothing to spend to pick up some titles that you weren't able to get on Blu-Ray. And when BR or combo players are cheap enough, HD people will jump in there too. Come on folks! Why bitch and just enjoy the fact that HD-DVD is an affordable reality now. <br> <br> This isn't the first fomat war, and it won't be the last - guaranteed. If you are a true movie lover, and you think Blu-Ray or HD-DVD are the very last media format that you will buy (whichever one you choose) you are mistaken. Bottom line - IT LOOKS FREAKIN' GREAT RIGHT NOW! <br> <br> Now if I could just get someone to repair my 8-Track player and LasedDisc player...

  • Nov. 5, 2007, 8:10 p.m. CST

    There were on 50K HD-DVD players in stock

    by spire_walk

    Good for Toshiba, they met their projected sales for the 4th Q by selling their junk players at a $500 loss, per gizmodo.

  • Nov. 6, 2007, 9:38 a.m. CST

    Toshibia Vs Sony ... HD VS Blu-Ray ... My Dick VS Your Dick

    by Red Dawn Don

    I suggest, those with the left half of their bodies black, kill those with the right half of their bodies black. Impersonator Frank Gorshin can be your new leader. Oh wait, that was an old STAR TREK episode. Oh well, same diff.

  • Nov. 6, 2007, 5:13 p.m. CST

    I picked up an A3 with 10 HD-DVDs....

    by Ultron ver 2.0

    ....you'd be a fool not to.

  • Nov. 9, 2007, 4:10 p.m. CST

    by the time these catch on...

    by INWOsuxRED

    at best we'll be a couple years away from everything being on-demand...with that said, I need to replace a DVD player, so I am probably going to buy into the 10 free movies and a player for $200 deal. I don't so much see it as upgrading to HD as I just see it as replacing a broken DVD player.