Ain't It Cool News (

O Ye Of Little Faith:
Whedon, Minear & Dushku
Reunite For DOLLHOUSE!!

I am – Hercules!! Fox has given the creator of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Firefly" a seven-episode commitment. This will be the first TV series Whedon has overseen since the WB (which no longer exists) cancelled "Angel" in 2004. From
“Dollhouse” stars Dushku as Echo, one of a group of secret agents living in a futuristic dorm. Each has the ability to be imprinted with custom personalities and abilities for special assignments. When they return, their newly acquired memories are wiped. The show follows Echo as she takes on a variety of assignments—some romantic, some adventurous, some uplifting, some illegal—and gains awareness of her role and confinement. has all the scoop here. UPDATE!! Well, perhaps not ALL the scoop. TV Guide's Michael Ausiello says "Angel"/"Firefly" collaborator Tim Minear is "on board" as well. Read Ausiello's report here.

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Readers Talkback
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  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:13 p.m. CST


    by bluebottle

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Can anyone say Totally Spies...

    by Dizagaox

    ... sounds exactly the same. But with memory wipe and live action.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Go Whedon go!!!!

    by BrowncoatJedi

    Save TV from boring crap like Heroes and Chuck!

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:22 p.m. CST


    by DangerMan

    Nothing that's been announced is very original, even this. Those spies in D.E.B.S. lived in a dorm too. Fox is just like the movie "Groundhog Day," reliving the same schedule over and over and over...

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:24 p.m. CST

    2 things will happen...

    by wabznasm

    1) It will be good. 2) Fox will cancel it.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Eliza Dushku, I salute you!

    by Pennsy

    Whedon-hatas, I :p at youse!

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:30 p.m. CST

    I don't see why...

    by DanielKurland

    Whedon, or Minear, or anyone bothers dealing with FOX anymore. Especially since not only is the the marketing poor, but airing episodes out of order is just ridiculous. Even the CW would be better. Excited he's going back to TV though. Let's hope it's arc-based.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Fuck yeah!

    by Neo Zeed

    Whedon is back on TV!

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Sounds interesting, but...

    by SilentP

    FOX? Why?? We all know how this will end.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:48 p.m. CST

    If this wasn't a Whedon show,

    by TVguy4566

    I'd probably write this off as crap. I am not loving the premise. But then again, if you said they were creating a TV show about a teenage girl named Buffy who killed vampires for a living about 15 years ago, I probably would have given it about two episodes.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Yeah indeed, why Fox?

    by redtom

    Is Joss doin a Homer in that he can't stop himself gettin frizzed by the electric fence even tho he knows its bad for him???<p><p><p> Or maybe Fox are holdin someone hostage and he has to work with them or somethin...<p><p><p> And Trik_Ster - how do you do bold here?

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Still would have rather had a Faith Series

    by TVguy4566

    I guess we all have to accept the Bufffyverse is dead to television. No Faith TV show. No Spike movie. No Willow or Wesley Movie. No Ripper series. I can't even hold out hope any more for "Lorne's Karoke Hour".

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:52 p.m. CST

    I dunno, Herc

    by snowpuff

    I once asked you via email "Why don't they get Whedon to do the Star Wars TV series?"<br> <br> And you very blithely replied: "Cuz he does movies now."<br> <br> You seemed quite confident Joss had ascended to a higher level of existence and no longer deigned to do telovision.<br> <br> (and I still think Lucas should hire Whedon to do the Star Wars television series...)

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    FOX?!?! FUCKING FOX?!?!

    by CatVutt

    Let the fucked up scheduling, network intereference, lack of promotion and finger pointing begin.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:54 p.m. CST

    Whedon has the clout

    by TVguy4566

    to pull a Sorkin or Matt LeBlanc move. Both those guys cut a deal that made it too expensive for NBC to cancel their shows even when they wanted to. Whedon may have cut a similiar deal that might force Fox to stick with the show for it's at least seven episode run.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:57 p.m. CST

    I wouldn't want Whedon to do Star Waes either

    by TVguy4566

    Whedon's "voice" is more contemporary. Star Wars is based on 50s and 60s serials. It just isn't his genre.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:58 p.m. CST


    by Hercules

    I've never been happier to eat my words! Mmmm mmmm, delicious words!!

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST

    and if Lucas hires Whedon to write Star Wars ...

    by Hercules

    I'm down with it, baby!

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST

    LUCAS is crap for the Star Wars series.

    by CatVutt

    At least with Whedon it would have a chance. I have loved Star Wars forever, but even I can't muster a whiff of interest for the destined-to-be-crap TV show.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:02 p.m. CST

    They Should Be Doing Faith the Vampire Slayer

    by ObiWanCon

    This should be the first season of Faith the Vampire Slayer but we don't live in a perfect world.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:03 p.m. CST


    by snowpuff

    Well, fair enough but I disagree. The first Star Wars worked because it about family, about characters you cared about and cared about each other. That's why Firefly worked so damn well. And that's what Whedon does so well. He has an ingredident that Lucas lost or maybe never had (read: it was Lawrence Kasdan).

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:05 p.m. CST

    (was commenting to Shuttlepod and TVguy)

    by snowpuff

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:08 p.m. CST

    Oh, Eliza, Eliza, ah . . .

    by kabong


  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:10 p.m. CST

    Shuttlepod 10

    by Hercules

    EVERYTHING Whedon has done besides Buffy has lasted more than 10 episodes. Congratulations on your slander and AICN banishment!

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:11 p.m. CST


    by TVguy4566

    I agree Whedon does characters really well, but even Firefly mixed an old west, contemporary, and futuristic flavor to it. I am not talking about characterization, but from what we have seen about Whedon's "universe" and the "universe" of Star Wars, it very different. <br><br> It is like Greg Proops announcer work in the pod race in Phantom Menance. That was very contemporary and was very out of place for the Star Wars universe. <br><br> I don't doubt Whedon could create a great TV using the Star Wars universe, but I don't think it would be a Star Wars show. <br><br> Granted Lucas has bastardized much of the Star Wars universe, maybe it doesn't matter.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:16 p.m. CST


    by TVguy4566

    Angel lasted 4 season. Firefly had 14 episodes filmed. Roseanne lasted what like 8 seasons. Granted he was just a writer on it. I think Parenthood lasted an entire season.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:20 p.m. CST

    I want to tie Dushku to a bed a la Wrong Turn

    by Osmosis Jones

    And have a little fun.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:21 p.m. CST


    by Scooter McGavin

    Everyone knows this has little chance on Fox so I'll set the line at 3.5 episodes before its yanked.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:30 p.m. CST

    Aphrodite IX minus androids?

    by cookepuss

    Anybody ever read the short lived comic "Aphrodite IX" from Top Cow?<p> <p><p> <p> I'm sure that the concept of the programmable & amnesiac secret agent must've been done before, but this is the first thing that came to mind - especially once you strip away the android aspect.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:34 p.m. CST


    by Pound Sand

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:42 p.m. CST

    group of secret agents living in a dorm

    by kabong

    Get over the group crap. <p> It's like "Grey's Anatomy" where people have no friends outside their workplace. <p> Stop trying to mash "family" with socially engineering the replacement family of corporate work pod. <p> That rant reminds me of "JPod" novel by Douglas Coupland. It has a degree of amusingness to it.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:46 p.m. CST

    can't wait for Fox to cancel this after episode 3 and release th

    by chiahead

    Let's just show a little initiative here, shall we? I say we start lobbying for an Echoes feature film NOW, that way we'll have enough momentum for when this gets prematurely cancelled. And I too would love to have knowledge of The Dushku.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:48 p.m. CST


    by SilentP

    Yes, it's strange how fans of Whedon's work become irritated when people use lies to support their own irrational hatred of it. You make a good point. Please continue making points, you are so good at it.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:49 p.m. CST

    So it's Paycheck meets Matrix

    by chrth

    "I know Kung Fu ... I have forgotten Kung Fu"

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Thank You Jesus!

    by commiepinko

    Screw movies Joss, you are a TV God. Though I'd still really like a sequel to Fray.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 10:59 p.m. CST

    Dude, you posted like 5 times

    by SilentP

    about how you don't like Whedon. Seems to me like there's more of an agenda behind that then just casually making a joke. That said, I don't even mind people making fun of Whedon or attacking him/his shows as much as they want - I just get annoyed when people attack "Whedonites" for defending his stuff, like they're not allowed.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Maybe he'll hire Brian K Vaughn as a full time writer

    by commiepinko

    that would rock.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Also, on the subject of not seeing humour in things...

    by SilentP

    I did want to note that your firefly post made me laugh. :P

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:09 p.m. CST

    re: Lucas

    by SilentP

    No, I get annoyed when people attack others for defending Lucas too. But then, I'm also a Lucas/prequel fan, lol.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:09 p.m. CST

    So in other words-

    by dr.bulber

    she is a strong female who is violated in order to serve someone elses agenda and over a period of time she must empower herself and become her own person. I bet she will also kick some major ass. Sometimes she will even kick ass in bars. I <3 Eliza and can't wait.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:10 p.m. CST

    I know it kind of sound strange, but

    by vaterite

    trust the Whedi-master

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:11 p.m. CST

    I'll criticize Whedon!

    by chrth

    Firefly was great, but he was already rehashing ideas in the 'unaired' episodes so one suspects he would've been hard-pressed to maintain its high level of awesomeness past season 1.<p> Buffy season 7 was a mess, and I blame Whedon for letting it be that way. He (or someone) needed to step in and sketch the season out better. There shouldn't have been 2 Deus Ex Machinas in the last 2 episodes (I found an Amulet! And a Scythe! ... compare/contrast to Season 5, where two weapons used against Glory -- the Buffybot and the Hammer -- were planted in much earlier episodes, not just having to show up towards the end of the season), and they should've killed off Anya when they had the chance (not only eliminating a character who became absolutely useless for the remainder of the season, but also would've provided Xander real incentive to turn against Buffy, not just 'oh my eye!')<p> Oh and what was the deal with Jubal Early the Second as the bad guy in Serenity? Screw That. Blue hand group was freakin' awesome, and Whedon was an idiot for not using them.<p> And I'm sure he had some lame jokes in a Roseanne episode or two.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:24 p.m. CST

    I guess I'm the only one....

    by dedrater2007

    ...who thought dushku, while pretty, was a terrible actor. This is not happy news in my book. Could be saved by using the Snake-Mayor as her handler. That would be sweet.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:29 p.m. CST

    the problem with this

    by punto

    from that description, the whole thing will depend of the acting abilities of whoever plays those agents.. Can elisa Dushku pull it off? I don't think so

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:30 p.m. CST

    FOX just canceled it a few minutes ago...

    by Yotz Von Frelnik

    Let's just assume that they did and save ourselves a lot of broken hearts, AGAIN. I hate to be that cynical but FOX is the cliff edge you don't want to go near if your name is Whedon, Minear or anyone from that group.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:34 p.m. CST

    For the record, I'm not a Whedonite

    by snowpuff

    Ask Herc to check his secret database of "Whedon Supporters, Strangely Not Supportive and In Between."<br> <br> I am listed as: <i>Snowpuff: "Demonstrates some interest and like in Joss' work. Three times in last six years did not like something Joss did. Determination: ENEMY OF JOSS. CAUTION."</i>

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:39 p.m. CST

    No no no, fucking NO

    by Strabo

    Whedon must like being mistreated. Why in the hell would ANY genre artist choose to have a series debut on Fox anymore? You could fill an entire shelf with DVD sets from series that Fox give a whole three or four episodes before they canned them. They shit all over Wonderfalls and Firefly, yet look how much of a success Pushing Daisies is with a network that actually supports the show.<BR><BR>Get out, Joss. Just run. Don't let these cocksuckers fuck over another one of your shows. Find another network, or tell Fox to go fuck themselves.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Whedon, you sneaky man-geek

    by TotalFreedom

    In his latest interveiw he gave nothing on the new projects front and another motherfucking TV show is now in the works. Fuck. Yes.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:45 p.m. CST


    by Strabo

    This is what happens when you post after being up for 24 hours with only four hours of sleep. I'm not entirely sure what that third sentence is supposed to be, but, oh, fuck it. It's a little awkward, but it works.<BR><BR>Anyway, if Whedon goes ahead with this show, I'm not even going to bother fucking watching until the first season has aired in totality, and the second season has been confirmed. Fuck you, Fox, fuck you.

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:51 p.m. CST

    am I the only one seeing a Ghost In The Shell vibe to this?

    by Amy Chasing

    this show could rock insanely! Imagine shades of Stand Alone Complex mixed with THX1138, add a dash of Matrix and perhaps a touch of Philip K Dick or Michael Marshall Smith, but with Whedon's sense of humor. I can't imagine it would come across as a The Pretender/Alias knock-off, because you can easily do that sort of story and change the style of it completely if you know how. I have high hopes. <P> And if any episodes have Christina Hendricks in them: awesome!

  • Oct. 31, 2007, 11:59 p.m. CST


    by My Pretty Pony

    Season 7 was a mess?! What in the hell are you talking about?? The final season was one of the best of the entire series. Just to name a few of the outstanding episodes: "Conversations w/ Dead People", "The Killer in Me", "Bring on the Night", "Get It Done", "Lies My Parents Told Me", "Storyteller" (the hilarious Andrew episode). Not to mention, the shocking destruction of the Watchers Council, the revelation that the final big bad was The First Evil, a character we'd previously only seen very briefly in season 3, that entire scene in the church at the end of "Beneath You" when Spike let himself burn on a cross and told Buffy he now had a soul, Andrew stabbing Jonathan, Nathan Fillion's portrayal of Caleb, Xander losing an eye, Buffy's meeting w/ the first Watchers, Willow giving all of the Potentials across the world Slayer powers, Spike sacrificing himself in the finale, and the entire town of Sunnydale imploding. Yeah, season 7 really sucked.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Alias meets She-Spies.


    oh, lord

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:19 a.m. CST

    My Pretty Pony, I agree with chrth

    by Elvis Cole Lives

    Season 7 WAS a fucking mess and this has been admitted to by no less than your god, Joss Whedon.<br><br>SMG wouldn't make a decision about whether or not she'd continue as Buffy and as a result the producers and writers were left giving the characters, especially Buffy, INTERMINABLE speeches about how "we're not all gonna make it through this, but now it's time to take it to the First Evil."<br><br>Next episode, you're all primed for ass-kicking action, but what do you get? More sitting around. More NOT happening. You'll notice that most of the episodes you cite are actually peripheral episodes about side characters or episodes in which all the characters stand around talking about the implications of the First Evil and "what this all means." No action. No movement forward. Just Buffy walking in AGAIN and yet ANOTHER speech about how "we're not all gonna make it, but now it's time to take it to the First Evil." <br><br>And next episode? The exact same pattern again. Peripheral characters, flashback episodes, and ANOTHER speech.<br><br>By the time SMG decided NOT to continue as Buffy ("didn't want to get typecast" - which she's done an admirable job of in The Grudge, The Grudge 2, The Return, and Pointless Shaky Cam Jap Horror Flick Remakes #17 - #23). This caused Whedon and the writers to have to squeeze a BARELY decent season into 6 episodes.<br><br>It's why there's bad blood between Gellar and Whedon to this day.<br><br>Don't believe me? Spend some time actually RESEARCHING this issue instead of just spouting a list of essentially stand alone episodes that, while good, did NOT contribute to an overall good season.<br><br>Season 7 was the worst season of Buffy ever and I watched 'em all from the first airing to the last and rewatched them all on DVD in order - twice!<br><br>No litany of good episodes erases the fact that a good season is MORE than the sum of its parts. I loves me some Joss just about as much as anybody, but my love ain't the kind that enjoys watersports and having people take a dump on my chest.<br><br>Season 7 had a FEW good episodes, but the overall arc was mediocre at best - very Heroes Season 2ish.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Herc, any word when Fox plans to air this?

    by Yeti

    This spring or next fall?

  • Seriously...Firefly was great,but it got fucked by FOX. Not only did they fuck it while it was on the air,they continue to fuck its corpse by hanging onto the rights and not letting another station pick it up. Then they fuck Minear with DRIVE by not even airing the full season before cancelling it,and then burning off the last two episodes in a horrible timeslot (did those episodes ever air?). So the question is.....why the FUCK would these two EVER do business with FOX ever again??? They just keep going back for more from a network that has given them nothing but shit. They might as well cast Nathan Fillion in this and that way it would be even more awesome and thus,be canceled half-way through the premiere episode.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:35 a.m. CST

    P.S. My Pretty Pony

    by Elvis Cole Lives

    The writers of the show have mentioned the fact that Sarah Michelle Gellar screwed 'em, too. Just do a little surfing on the interwebs. Fuck, just look at the recent interview with Joss on He's all glib and shit about everything (including directing The Office, the Angel comic and Wonder Woman) like usual until the interviewer asks him about possibly working with Gellar on Goners and, even in print, you can feel the cold fucking wind blow. SMG screwed that show BIG TIME causing the producers and writers to have to scramble during the last 6 episodes or so to squeeze out an ending.<br><br>You know what? Screw it. Here it is:<br><br>INTERVIEWER: Any chance there would be a role for Sarah Michelle Gellar in it [Goners]?<br><br>WHEDON: Um [pause] I don’t know. Huh. I don’t think so. And that’s not exactly how it works. Obviously Sarah is a star… but I don’t know if it’s the sort of thing she would do or not — again, we haven’t gotten that far in the process. But you know, she sort of backed off from Buffy because she wanted to make her bones as other characters. Not that she wasn’t proud of what she’d done, and she should be, but you know, you want to sort of make your own way. So it would probably be the wrong idea.<br><br>In case you're unfamiliar with Hollywood speak, that was Whedon getting blindsided by a question that everybody ELSE in Hollywood knows the answer to -- Whedon will NOT work with SMG again because she screwed him on the last season of Buffy, contributing to the lackluster last season.

  • Damn short subject line!!!!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:37 a.m. CST

    I hope they don't try

    by veritasses

    to force witty/snappy/hip remarks into the dialog every 10 seconds but I can't deny that I'm looking forward to seeing what this combination of talent comes up with.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:41 a.m. CST

    Re: Whedon and Minear having to eat

    by Elvis Cole Lives

    There you go. Hate to say it, but Joss and Timmy gots to eat! Writers strike coming up. Both these guys are, what, again? Oh, yeah -- writers.<br><br>And you know what? A seven episode commitment has got to be a few million (low millions, of course) for each of these guys, Whedon, Minear, and Dushku.<br><br>So, seriously, a writers' strike looming and somebody offers you a few mill for a seven episode commitment? I'm sure your "artistic integrity" (against non-cancellation?!?!?!?) is more important than the mortgage and food, right? Right.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Glad Whedon and Minear are back on TV, but why...

    by chromedome

    ...why why on Fox? Fox that has screwed both of them over and over?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:47 a.m. CST

    Dushku Do that Voodoo that you Dushku so well

    by chromedome

    good to have her back!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Fox commits to 7 episodes--to buy them, but not

    by chromedome

    necessarily to actually air them, right?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:49 a.m. CST

    This sounds like the kiss of death.

    by AnnoyYou

    Showkillers all: Whedon, Minear AND Dushku! I'll bet they replace Dushku before it premieres as she is no longer the piece she once was. Not a slam, just fact - Fox likes its girls young and stupid and at, what, 30?, 31?, Dushku no longer fits the bill. It's not like she's doing a comedy like Christina Applegate or anything. This sounds like "Alias" or maybe even "La Femme Nikita" (the cheesy TV show, not the film) -- I don't think Dushku has the acting chops or the magnetism for a lead role along these lines. I'd say if it comes to light it will be around for five episodes.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:50 a.m. CST

    Suh-weet! There is a God in Heaven!

    by Zardoz

    This will be good, people! Believe it and it will be so! (oh, and did Herc drop the hammer on shuttlecock_10, or what? I'm just sayin'...) Only 2 more issues left of AXM, and #23 is out next week!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:52 a.m. CST

    I thought Whedon swore off dealing with fox...

    by PurityOfEssence

    Oh well, got to put bread on the table somehow. Whedon can run a solid show, but I just don't know how well this will turn out.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:01 a.m. CST

    Chromedome, I explained why Fox above

    by Elvis Cole Lives

    And Dushku explained it in the interview. She talked Whedon into doing it and Whedon, liking to eat and have a place to live, and never being one to turn down free money pre-strike just because Fox has canceled his shows before said "okay."<br><br>I mean, for real, the logic around this place sometimes.<br><br>Seriously, guys, Fox has screwed genre shows. We get it. We know.<br><br>But how many of YOU would turn them down if they offered you a few million for seven episodes of what-the-fuck-ever you crank out? You guys got THAT much "artistic integrity?"<br><br>Nobody's buying Goners or The Cabin In the Woods.<br><br>Nobody's producing Whedon's Wonder Woman script.<br><br>The man is reduced to directing episodes of The Office.<br><br>In that situation (or, hell, even bucks up) what kind of an idiot turns down FREE MONEY cause they MIGHT (okay, probably will) cancel the show. That's just idiocy.<br><br>"Gee, I REFUSE to take your money, Fox, for some paltry effort on my part for seven episodes because I'm holding out for ALL those other networks and their seven SEASON commitments. What? What's that? You say nobody's OFFERING seven SEASON commitments? You say there's a writers' strike coming up? Hmmm. Seven episodes, huh? Nope. Can't do it. I WON'T take your money. You might cancel me in seven episodes and then I'll only have the money for SEVEN EPISODES as WRITER, PRODUCER, and CREATOR. That's just not enough compared to nothing."<br><br>Yeah, that's the ticket.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:13 a.m. CST

    As Crewes might say, think happy thoughts, guys

    by Elvis Cole Lives

    Maybe, just maybe, Whedon, Minear, and Dushku can put into action what they learned and all their other stuff (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Wonderfalls, The Inside, and Drive) and negate the fallout from pre-mature cancellation.<br><br>How?<br><br>Well, how about all stand-alone eps, minimal serialization, and a set-up and pay-off for the series that doesn't DEMAND a finish line at the end of a season long race? Keep the mythology to a minimum and don't demand an earth-shattering conclusion 200 episodes down the line.<br><br>I like these guys work. All of them. And I think that if we (and they) just look at it as a mini-series then everything will be fine.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Well shit...

    by LordEnigma

    this is a very promising development. Much dap to Eliza for getting Joss back into the TV game. The medium needs him... a lot.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:21 a.m. CST

    maybe they can take it to the sci-fi channel...

    by palinode

    And they can air the seven episodes as seven "mini-seasons" running until 2014.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:24 a.m. CST

    A Whedon show about a spunky young girl with kungfu skills?!?!?!

    by PervOmatic

    OMG, he is so original. What genre will he rip off next with his formula approach to peddling the same stories to idiots? Fox knows they won't carry this show past the first order. Then they'll sell the DVDs to the mindless Browncoats who buy mulitple copies because their parents didn't love them enough. Fuck Whedon.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:54 a.m. CST

    Dushku + Whedone = Sold

    by xsi kal

    Premise = eh, but who the hell cares. Dushku needs to be on tv, and whedon needs to be writing for it. <br> I'm happy.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:55 a.m. CST


    by xsi kal

    Why can't we edit? I can't believe I added an e to Joss Whedon's name. :P

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:14 a.m. CST

    Elvis Cole Lives

    by My Pretty Pony

    Spouting off w/o doing research?? What research did I need to do to state my own opinion? Since you want to talk about doing research, Whedon has also stated many times that it was a mutual decision of his and Sarah Michelle's to end the series at that point. They both weren't sure about an eighth season entering into the seventh, and then decided part way through that that would be the final season. Maybe you're the one who should do some research. And thanks so much for copying and pasting that Q&A from the TV Guide interview. I'd already read the entire interview, but me no understand that Hollywood speak so much.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:39 a.m. CST


    by Cotton McKnight

    EVERY ENGLISH EXPRESSION OF JOY I CAN THINK OF!!!!!!!<br><br><br>No, I'm not excited about the project, I'm just thrilled that Whedon finally has something to occupy his time other than that stupid Firefly. Man that thing was a dog and I was getting scared about all that serenity sequel talk.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:46 a.m. CST

    Alias + Memento

    by DangerMan

    Kevin Reilly will tank Fox like he did NBC with far too many derivative genre shows. Whedon has yet to have a true ratings hit. He's an arrogant putz and this show will tank.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:50 a.m. CST

    Oh baby....

    by buffywrestling

    Glad to hear he's writing but is Joss directing as well? Is Tim pulling double duty too? Damn yous writers strike! Hurry up & negotiate so I can see some new Whedon/Minear on my TV!!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 3:25 a.m. CST

    The key is the other writers

    by Domi'sInnerChild

    Aren't they scattered all over other shows now? If the new guys are so/so, there will be like two good episodes. I blame season 7 on them being stretched too thin between three shows.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 3:36 a.m. CST

    "living in a futuristic dorm"?

    by newc0253

    cool.<p> are there pillow fights involving Dushku in her panties?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 4:59 a.m. CST


    by photoboy

    It will be good, so it will be cancelled.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:03 a.m. CST


    by oxfordruse

    I'm still hoping that this DOLLHOUSE premise is all an elaborate fakeout to disguise the fact that FAITH THE VAMPIRE SLAYER will soon be rockin' our screens. Yes, I said rockin'.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:05 a.m. CST

    Sounds like The Pretender with Matrix style ability uploading...

    by Sledge Hammer

    ...also sounds like something that will be cancelled inside of half a season, which will of course cause all of us to have to put up with Herc and the army of hardcore "Joss is God" Whedonites to bitch and moan about it for the next two or three hundred years...

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:14 a.m. CST


    by oxfordruse

    I'm assuming that you have nothing in your life that still gives you whimsical childlike excitement. Otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to piss on others' joy. That's sad. I cry for you. Boo hoo.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Wonder Falls is criminally underrated

    by commiepinko

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:54 a.m. CST

    I'm on board.

    by Kubla_Khan

    Let's face it, no show premise ever sounds original these days. It's all about how the writing is and how the material is handled onscreen. In that, I have little doubt that this show will please me greatly. But I do agree with all the people who are saying FOX is the one network that is guaranteed to fuck your show in the ass. Whetever - Whedon, it'll be good to have you back on TV.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:08 a.m. CST

    Ah, the goddess Eliza Dushku.

    by spud mcspud

    I'd like her to kick my ass. Then fuck me. Hard. Then kick my ass again. Then fuck me again. Harder.<P> Repeat until dick drops off.<P> I'd also like to:<P> Splat her with my baby batter, introduce her to the "Snake... Plissken", shoot her with my porridge gun, wrestle her with the Trouser Python, implae her on my pork sword...<P> The floor is now open for even more crude similes for the act of fornication with the goddess Dushku. Commence crudity!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:10 a.m. CST

    Oh, the series concept...

    by spud mcspud

    I could happily stare at Dushku doing that sexy frowning thing ALL DAY, but I have to say - sounds like PAYCHECK meets ALIAS, but with Dushku not Garner. The concept sucks. But not my daydream concept, in which Jennifer Garner AND Eliza Dushku kick my ass hard - while dressed in blakc leather - then get down to some serious lovin on me...<P> Ah shit, I'll be back. Gotta clean up...

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:15 a.m. CST

    Anyone heard anything about the Serinity sequel

    by beastie

    that was mentioned a few weeks back. Apparently, it's doing so well on DVD that they are thinking D2V sequel.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:25 a.m. CST

    I'm so there :)

    by giger167

    Bah ! you can break down any new idea and call it a rehash, after all isn't heroes just x-men without costumes, Lost is the Prisoner on tropical island. The important thing is the journey the characters take, the skill of the writing, the dialogue, gaining empathy with the show. Show me a better writer of television for character driven shows, with large ensemble casts. I'll be there on the journey. Now bring Victor Garber in as the mentor of the agents, he would be great as the section leader (similar to his role in Alias) and bring in Amy Acker as some chick who used to be agent but escaped and tries to tell them the truth. Could be an amazing show :)

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:29 a.m. CST

    born in 1980

    by palewook

    she's hitting the wall fast after 30.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:38 a.m. CST

    Whedon vs Lucas

    by kwisatzhaderach

    The second Whedon does anything as good as THX 1138, American Graffiti and Star Wars give me a call.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:45 a.m. CST

    ECL: I'm not sure I buy the 'SMG's fault' theory

    by chrth

    Because it's not like she would've stopped working halfway through the season. I think Domi'sInnerChild is closer to the truth: Joss was busy with Firefly and Angel (that was the Charisma pregnancy season, too, iirc) and then he was busy getting the out-of-work actors from Firefly on to his shows (did someone actually praise Caleb? Mein Gott he was a stale cliche).<p> I mean, we know Season 7 they were playing it by ear, and Caleb is proof. Joss even said in an interview back then that they needed someone tangible for Buffy to fight so they came up with Caleb *midseason*. Doesn't that seem like an important point that should've been there from the beginning?<p> Simply put, the show was rudderless that season. Were there good episodes? Of course there were. No one is disputing. What we're disputing is the vagueness of the overall arc and all of the filler that finds its way in as a result, making the season as a whole less than stellar. It's a valid criticism, and I don't even think Joss would disagree with it.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:51 a.m. CST

    Season 7 was BINO

    by TwoTonLeither

    It was shite. And what the fuck was Willow doing with that Kennedy cunt while Tara WAS STILL WARM IN THE GROUND.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Yeah, Dushku is hot and all...

    by Abin Sur

    But I dunno...I think she lost some of that sexiness when she got the nose job. Same thing happened to Jennifer Grey. A real shame.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 7:13 a.m. CST

    Be happy

    by Jack Black

    Please..there is so much shite on TV..we have to nitpick this thing before it gets off the ground? This is good news. Smile.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 7:30 a.m. CST

    I love Joss

    by Engelhast

    But this sounds a lot like the whole first season of Alias compacted into a single episode and then the same thing again next week but just slightly different. I will give it a shot though. Buffy the Vampire Slayer sounded like a stupid idea for a TV show also and I was epically wrong about that one.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 7:42 a.m. CST

    the big question is...

    by Engelhast

    Why would Joss bother doing this if it is Fox giving it the green light? We all know that they will only air two or three of the seven episodes filmed before pushing it off the air.Why would Joss bother doing this if it is Fox giving it the green light? We all know that they will only air two or three of the seven episodes filmed before pushing it off the air. I would have thought he had learned his lesson with how poorly they treated Firefly. Those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat early cancellation.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 7:51 a.m. CST

    She's very "one note".....

    by Mr. Profit

    I adored BTVS up until the UPN seasons. So I'm down with Whedon coming back to TV with something that isn't "Firefly" or "Serenity". But I have to say, I never really liked the Faith character. <b>Mainly because I never liked Eliza as an actress. It's like her and Michelle Rodriguez went to the same pseudo lesbian school of actors taught by Vazquez from "Aliens".</b> <b>And it's odd, people complain about Jessica Biel and adore Dushku. Why exactly? Because she delivered snarky lines like "I'm 5 by 5" and tell stories about rasseling alligators on your favorite show once? Please.</b> <b>And I agree, the nose job is not a good look for her, she was perfectly fine before it. Let me know when SMG or Jennifer Garner finally decide to come back to television. Then I'd be happier.</b>

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Good News, Bad News

    by _Maltheus_

    About time he got back to television. That's what he's good at, not movies. And I'm fine that it's not Buffy or Firefly related cause quite frankly, I was always more into the dialog and the sweet girls, rather than the premises. That being said, the fact that it's on Fox means A) I have to give a new Fox show a shot again when I said I wouldn't and B) it'll get canceled in under 10 episodes. Also, as much as I liked Faith and I think Eliza is hot, she's not my favorite actress. Or perhaps it's just something about her voice that rubs me the wrong way. Either way, I'll take what Whedon TV I can get. I don't know anyone else who's put out three great series.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:21 a.m. CST

    Still don't understand...

    by DanielKurland

    How there was any danger in the last episode of Buffy. The vampires were coming out of the Hellmouth, into the school, right? When it was DAY out. They all would have been killed upon getting out anyway. Had it all happened at night, it'd maybe have been plausible. I love Angel's last episode, as it very simply tells you exactly what is going to happen in the first minute, and the rest is then watching it all go forth.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:44 a.m. CST


    by Shadowmarch55

    Surely Fox will not cancel the show after a pathetically small amount of episodes. Surely. Surely they shall not piss us off this time. Surely tiny parachutes will not open after anyone is killed on GI Joe and someone will actually be killed. This time. Surely Charlie Brown will be able to kick that football! Surely the rabbit will get his trix! (Note: He did in the special election marketing campaign they had in 1984. He got a spoonful and then got no more.) Surely if we wish hard enough, and hope and pray, FOX will not be a scorpion. Riiiiiiiiiight. I am a huge buffy, angel and firefly fan. But I, for one, am done with FOX. Not even Joss Whedon is enough to make me watch anything on that network anymore. If Whedon had a commitment for 7 YEARS not seven Episodes, and a clause in the contract that said Fox owes him something obscene like $200 million for each episode then I might. Not realistic you say? Neither is the expectation that FOX will treat this with dignity. Unless Joss Whedon is only planning on the series actually lasting 7 episodes, I'll skip it. If it ever makes syndication, I'll watch it then, but FOX gets no more of my money.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:14 a.m. CST

    "Buffy season 7 was a mess"?

    by newc0253

    may i live to be 100, i'll never understand the hate for Buffy season 7.<p> i read an interview with David Fury a few months ago and even he was unhappy with how it panned out. But then he presided over the shitburger that was 24 day 6 so how much can i trust his judgment?<p> For me, season 7 Buffy ranks as one of the finest. The slow-burn build-up ('from beneath you, it devours'), the First, Conversations With Dead People, insane spike in the basement, anya's backstory, the nubility of the potentials in general, that great Two Towers shot of the ubervamps in the Hellmouth, Lies My Parents Told Me, the First, the nubility of Kennedy in particular, Caleb, and the frakking finale. Obviously some folk were unhappy with the resolution it gave but for me it was the ideal way to end the series.<p> The weakest part of season 7 for me was the unbeatable ubervamps that turned out to be beatable if you ... just beat them hard enough.<p> Turns out, that was Fury's fault too.<p>

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Elvis Cole Lives

    by Mosquito March

    You compare BUFFY 7 to HEROES 2 in a negative manner. The thing is, you could apply almost every one of your criticisms to HEROES *1*, of which you must be a fan. At least BUFFY had a sense of hunmor and allowed its characters to actually use their powers, instead of a bunch of so-called 'superheroes' standing around chit-chatting and whining and having visions of all kinds of shit that never even happens (it's the most paradox-ridden time travel story I've seen in years). I mean, what the fuck - you have a character who can fly, but in 20+ episodes, he only flies maybe four times? HEROES doesn't deliver on the epic nature of the material in the least. It should be awe-inspiring and wonderful, like a CLOSE ENCOUNTERS for the superhero set - not some claustrophobic, maudlin, soundstage-bound downer where everybody hates their powers so much that they never use them. The only genuinely cool superpower scene was the one in the future where Peter materializes out of nowhere and takes out a whole suite full of bad guys with all of his collected powers. BUFFY 7, on the other hand, seriously amped up its fights and use of characters' superpowers, featured villains who actually seemed threatening, and I still cared about the characters, even when the storyline went global. I'd take that over Split-Personality Bitch any day.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:45 a.m. CST

    I don't have little faith, just little interest.

    by Darth Bauer

    It's so funny how so many overrated people are worshiped here.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:46 a.m. CST

    Of the Dushku pretty woman/mediocre actress

    by skimn

    school of thought. Liked the Vasquez-tough chick acting school comment above. Besides Faith, what has she done to display acting chops? Bring It On, Wrong Turn, The New Guy...? Hell, she was better as Arnie's daughter in True Lies. Does this have a bit of a Dark Angel vibe also, or is it just me?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Stay away from Eliza Dushku

    by Guns And Smoke

    Okay, the idea of Whedon coming back to TV is enough to get a nun wet, but let's not overlook the real problem here...Eliza. Safe move? Not really. Her last film was called "The Alphabet Killer" & what was that show she was just on called again? Is it even still on TV? After a little research I found this interesting little fact (Eliza Dushku turned down an offer to star in a spin-off series of her character Faith from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" in favor of doing this series. - iMDB Pro) Whhhaaaa?? So she doesn't do the show that would make Whedon fans cry with joy & so what does he do? He casts her as the lead in his big TV comeback?!? COMEON JOSS!! We need you to be smart about this. If you want to start a whole new show and create a brand new universe we need a new girl. Cast a relatively unknown actress and let us grow with her. Eliza Dushku seems like a good cast for this project, but maybe as a villain or a side character. PLEASE LISTEN TO THE FANS! YOU ALWAYS CLAIM YOU WOULD BE NOTHING WITHOUT YOUR FANS, SO PAY ATTENTION! NOBODY WANTS ELIZA DUSHKU TO BE THE NEW MAIN CHARACTER FOR THIS SHOW! WE LOVE HER, BUT NOT FOR THIS.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Joss Puppies

    by rutgerman

    If Joss Whedon were to create a reality show about slugs having sex, 24/7, I'd still watch it. He rocks my world.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:11 a.m. CST

    looks like fox

    by INWOsuxRED

    wants to release a bunch of never before seen episodes on DVD!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Don't get your hopes up

    by Reel American Hero

    I'm a Whedon fan, but I refuse to get excited about anything that Fox puts out now involving anything or one Whedon related, cause it's just going to get cancelled two weeks into the series anyway.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:14 a.m. CST


    by CatVutt

    I've obviously very intrigued, and Joss is one of those creators that does what I would think we'd like all of our best creators to do. Invest in his characters, truly fall in love with the projects he's working on, and strive to put forth quality storytelling and entertainment. Whether you like the result or not, I'll never understand people who go out of their way to whine about how 'overrated'. It's assinine. <p> That said, BTVS Season WAS a damn mess, and he made a lot of mistakes there. Whether it was because of being spread between three shows, or just dumb choices, it didn't work, and doesn't hold up well at all. <p> Minear, on the other hand, has lost his cred with me at this point. "The Inside" was just dreadful and "Drive" was only marginally better, the annoyingly most memorable aspect being that cliche-ridden hispanic character who said 'homes' every other goddamn word.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Season 7, that is.

    by CatVutt

    I shouldn't post while I'm at work. Too damn many distractions.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Christmas Just Came Early

    by Birdys Piano Teacher

    It's not a Faith show, but it *is* the next best thing. And Joss is writing it. These are the good times, people.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Why bother? It will get cancelled anyway

    by Newmark

    Probably after a few episodes, or after a season, at best. Why is Whedon still working with Fox? After Firefly got cancelled he said he will never work with Fox again, under any circumstances. And why is Minear, for that matter? Fox cancelled Firefly, Wonderfalls, The Inside, Drive, basically everything Minear has worked on since Angel.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Season 7

    by _Maltheus_

    ...took a dip, that's all. I still found it enjoyable, despite any finale plot holes (like fighting them in the school). In fact, I'm glad it took a dip. I think shows should go out a season or two after the peak. That way I'm content and not jonsing for more. It was a good show all around and I didn't mind them experimenting at all the last two seasons. It kind of reminded me of ST:TNG that way (7 seasons, with slight dip in last two).

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Shuttlepod really banished?

    by Fernwick_

    That griefing fuck has been torturing us for EVER on this site and PLEASE let them NOT be kidding on this. Slam the door in his face, and leave a print please.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 11:12 a.m. CST


    by fiester

    I loves me some of The Dushku! She kicks SMG's ass seven ways to Sunday.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 11:32 a.m. CST


    by phool2056

    That's, that's really all I have to say. Dushku is not my favorite, but seven more hours of Whedon TV? I am dancing in my chair.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 11:44 a.m. CST

    some season 7 thoughts

    by gwarwilleatyou

    While I think there were good episodes in the season, my main problem with season 7 is main arc. So who left the talisman in the bathroom in the first episode? What the hell was the first's plan? Why was Spike so important to the plan? Why did it seem as though it needed to let buffy live sometimes, but than other times it didn't? What exactly about her coming back from the dead weakened the slayer line? Didn't she already do that before? Shouldn't the line be running through Faith now anyway? The Scythe and Amulet Dues Ex Machina. The speeches, the speeches, the speeches. D'hoffryn's wishy washy I won't kill Anya, I will kill Anya subplot that vanished so that she instead gets killed by a bringer? The whole is Giles the first or isn't he thing was pretty lame too. So yeah, I think most of the episodes were fine by themselves, but taken as a whole not so much.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:09 p.m. CST

    "Congratulations on your slander and AICN banishment!"

    by Meglos

    Overreact much?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:11 p.m. CST

    Anyone but Dushku...

    by Kilgores Doubt

    Please, please, please. I know buffy fans love her. But name something else besides that that she was halfway watchable in? Tru Calling? Bring It On? I will watch the show, as I haven't been let down by Minear or Whedon yet. But please re-cast...

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:27 p.m. CST

    My problem with Season 7....

    by Mr. Profit

    Was a lot of what was already said above. But the MAIN thing that bugged me was how it all ended. I thought the way the finale was written was like a fuck you to Sarah Michelle Geller. <b>Sure during the season she revealed she wasn't going to return and I don't blame her for wanting to move on after 7 years. People resent her for this yet they forget that she dutifully portrayed a character for Whedon for 7 years.</B> <b>When she got really famous, she could have easily pulled a Caruso and bolted, but she completed her contractual obligations to the show. Let's not forget that the show was in a serious ratings decline once it went to the shitty UPN.</B> <b>She brought Whedon's words to life and she was one of the main reasons the show worked for me. So to see a whole bunch of "potentials" who were weak actors become slayers was just so fucking wack.</B> <B>And the final line that went something like "How does it feel that you are not special anymore" was just fucked up.</B> <b>Buffy and Faith are the only 2 slayers. Period. Having hundreds of random girls suddenly being slayers too was cheap to me.</B> <B>As for Dushku, is it me, or does she have zero chemistry with any of her male leads? In "Wrong Turn" she was tougher than the dude that I kept saying to myself, why does he give a fuck about saving her from the hillbillies?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Mr. Profit: I'm not so sure

    by chrth

    Wasn't one of the themes of the entire show that Buffy didn't want to be special, that she wanted to be normal, that she preferred death to her life? I saw the ending as a way of making her less unique and thus able to be more normal; I didn't see it as a slap at SMG.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:43 p.m. CST

    "What've ratings got to do with it? Got to do with it?"

    by AnimeJune

    Oh, Joss Whedon, Fox may ply you with money and love, but just because it gave Arrested Development three seasons doesn't mean it'll stop slapping you around! Get out while you can - they have shelters for your kind of thing! Anyhoo - I love how whenever a new show idea is pitched, everyone jumps in about how it's exactly like every little fucking thing else that's already on! "Waaah, Heroes rips off Watchmen!" "Waaah, Moonlight rips off Angel!" "Waaaah, Ratatouille rips off Anatole or some shit..." Ideas can be "similar" to anything, but if there are different writers behind it, than that idea can sprout into an entirely different story. Anyway, the idea of a person have a different personality implanted in them every episode sounds pretty original to me, and would require some real acting skills to pull off. I think it could work.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:46 p.m. CST


    by Engelhast

    Daytime would have been the best time to go into the hellmouth and take the offensive against the uber-vamp army BEFORE they actually spilled out into Sunnydale and spread their love with its residence. That is a kinda bitch complaint anyway bro IMO.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:47 p.m. CST

    My Pretty Pony and Chrth

    by Elvis Cole Lives

    My Pretty Pony, "[w]hat research did [you] need to do to state [your] own opinion?" Absolutely none, of course. I'm mean, why bother researching and having ALL the facts for your opinion? It's much more "enlightened" to base your opinion solely upon viewing the episodes themselves.<br><br>You can obviously think of everything in the universe and, therefore, learning what others think and why they think it is unimportant to formulating and defending your own opinion.<br><br>Whedon has "stated many times that it was a mutual decision of his and Sarah Michelle's to end the series at that point," but since you state that you don't understand Hollywoodspeak that much let me point out that Whedon's statements about the "mutual decision" are also Hollywoodspeak. A variety of sources at Mutant Enemy, including both writers and producers, have confirmed what I said.<br><br>Look, I got no ax grind with SMG. Not really. I'm just telling you what I thought MOST people knew.<br><br>You posted your opinion of season 7 in contradiction to chrth's statement that season 7 was a mess. You stated it like chrth was the dumbest fuck in the world because YOU could quote about 6 good episodes and 6 moderately funny/interesting events.<br><br>Well, whoopee! Six good eps and 6 moderaately funny/interesting events do NOT a good season make.<br><br>You have a different opinion. Fine. Others agree with chrth and me, including WHEDON and the WRITERS and PRODUCERS of the show.<br><br>I cited that as evidence of my opinion and then provided more evidence as to why they were of that opinion. And that shit AIN'T a theory. It's a fact.<br><br>SMG left those guys in limbo while she spent the entire season deciding whether she wanted to continue as the character. While Whedon may have said "they both weren't sure about an eighth season entering into the seventh, and then decided part way through that that would be the final season" those statements were for public consumption and not "losing face" for either of them. That is just plain NOT what happened.<br><br>And you're welcome "for copying and pasting that Q&A from the TV Guide interview" that you'd "already read" but apparently didn't understand - it's always my pleasure to help the ignorant and uninformed.<br><br>Chrth, the problem with Gellar's quitting wasn't "[b]ecause... she would've stopped working halfway through the season." SMG's contract only went through Season 7. The producers and writers knew going in that it MIGHT be the last season. Unfortunately, SMG held off on making the decision on whether or not to return until VERY late in the game, a decision that one of the writers (Goddard?) remembers as stunning the entire room of writers. Domi'sInnerChild has a nice theory (and I'm sure that it's partially right), but Noxon herself has stated on September 11, 2007 ("And people also thought that [her getting promoted to executive producer] meant Joss [Whedon] wasn’t around and that just wasn’t the case. He was very much around."). You say that Whedon was "busy getting the out-of-work actors from Firefly on to his shows" and then criticize Caleb's character. Now, don't get me wrong; I thought the Caleb character was ridiculously stale and cliche, but you can't hinge the theory on Season 7 suckage on lack-o'-Whedon and then criticize the sucky character that Whedon brought to the show. Whedon brought Fillion and Caleb to that show. You say that in Season 7, "they were playing it by ear." The reason they were doing so is because SMG kept them hanging for a LONG time. Whatever her reasons were (one I've heard is that the combination of wanting to try something new AND being dissatisfied with the Spike-Buffy sex stuff from the prior season), she held off a long time. The writers were hoping against hope and you'll notice the stand-alone, peripheral character, non-Big Bad episodes that fill the first six episodes of the season - that's more than 25%. Finally, we get The First Evil in episode 7, that's the 1/3 mark! It's the TENTH episode of the season when Giles reveals the First Evil's plans to wipe out the Slayer line and the Ubervamp appears. The theory that "Joss even said in an interview back then that they needed someone tangible for Buffy to fight so they came up with Caleb *midseason*" doesn't exactly make sense because you've got Harbingers (tangible) and Ubervamps (tangible) up until Caleb shows up, both of whom are under the control of the First Evil. Mistakes were made in that season, but NOT having something tangible to fight against wasn't one of them - the Harbingers and the Ubervamps were both tangible. Marti Noxon assumed Executive Producer status that final year, but it's my understanding that the title addition was perfunctory because she'd been doing that job with Joss since the beginning. As you say, there were good episodes. Even great ones. And, as you say, it's the "vagueness of the overall arc and all of the filler that finds its way in as a result" that made the season extremely lacking ("less than stellar"). I, too, think "[i]t's a valid criticism" and Joss himself has said as much.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:48 p.m. CST

    I dunno...

    by Mr. Profit

    I never thought the character was really the same after she left High School but that is just me. I know the isolation theme was something that was always there, but I wanted something more when it ended. Something a bit more open ended like the last episode of Angel. Whatever, Buffy still ranks as one of my favorite shows of all time, "Hush" will remain one of my favorite hours of TV ever. I will always look back on the show with good memories, even when the character did things I did not agree with at times. I am one of the few people that really didn't get the Spike/Buffy affair, or why she would work at The Doublemeat Palace. But whatever, the show is done.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Tentative WOO-HOO

    by LazyDolphin

    Whedon is the man! I can't wait to see this show, but since his specialty seems to be "Stuff that looks awful but is awesome once you actually SEE it" I really hope the views come to the party this time.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 12:54 p.m. CST

    She left the writers in limbo? Seriously?

    by Mr. Profit

    Do people really think the writers and creators of a show are that stupid? Like they would wait for a star to make up her mind about another season before they decide on a concrete story arc for the current season? If TV taught us anything, one thing we should all know by now is that you can easily undo anything deemed "final" in the season finale. Waiting on Geller to decide on a season 8 is not a good excuse for not having the season mapped out. I think it had more to do with them doing 3 shows at the same time.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Memory implants ripped from Morrison's The Filth.

    by 3 Bag Enema

    Maybe if he sues he'll do better than when he sued the Wachowskis. Grant, if you're reading this - I think a little Litigation Magic would be appropriate.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:14 p.m. CST

    The first word

    by VicSage

    the first word in the story (not the title) tells you all you need to know. Don;t get sucked in, only inevitable disappointment awaits.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:18 p.m. CST

    ECL: I meant tangible as a Big Bad

    by chrth

    The rest were just minions/red-shirts. The First, being intangible, couldn't be tackled in a meaningful fight. Caleb, however, fit the bill.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:36 p.m. CST

    See? I was right.

    by ZeroCorpse

    Whedon could put a show on TV that consists of five people talking about a piece of shit on a stick, and the Whedonites would declare it the BEST THING EVAR! and call themselves "shitstickies" or something catchy. They'd run around saying how awesome it is before it even airs. They'd tell other people "You HAVE to watch it. It's the best show on television!" and then when they're told, "but it's just shit on a stick" they'd answer with "Oh, you have to watch it from the beginning. The first season is CLASSIC!" <p> Then the show would get cancelled, and become either a movie or comic book which the fans say "prove" that the show was awesome. <p> They'll still have cute jargon like "Big Bad" meaning "antagonist" and "Gabbyhead" which means "someone who gets more than one sentence at a time on a Joss Whedon show." and people will look at them like they're freaks when they dress in the costumes of the characters from the show, mostly because they're not particularly unique or special costumes-- They're just clothes with shitstains on them. Enemies of the Whedon will call them "Shitheads" (just like we always have) and continue to see them as being about two steps above furries in the fucked-in-the-head scale. <p> And the stars will all do conventions where they talk about how great Whedon is with the fans-- not because he's great, but because they're contractually obligated to smell his ass and declare it roses. <p> Doesn't matter what Whedon does-- His cult will declare it the most brilliant thing since his last project, and they'll make the rest of us positively sick with their smarmy attitude and that weird brainwashed look in their eyes. So far, the Whedonites know next to nothing about this show, and they're already saying they'll "be there" and that it will be the "best thing on TV". I'm betting they're already forming fan clubs and designing costumes for the convention. <p> Whedonites annoy me a LOT more than Trekkies. Trekkies are just nerds who like a scifi show a little too much and have no other social life to fill the space. Whedonites are frightening in their devotion. They seem more like scientologists or Mansonites.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:36 p.m. CST

    I would totally marry Dushku.

    by fiester

    Met her once out at a bar. She is purdy. Apparently she is dating someone on the Dodgers. Lucky bastard.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Wow, Fox picks up a new Whedon Series...

    by polyh3dron

    I give it 2 episodes before it gets canned.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Arguably the best news I've heard in a long time.

    by a goonie

    Wow. I love those days when a bit of geeky news rolls in completely unexpectedly. Something you don't see coming at all. And following the disappointing Dark Knight reveal, I could use some damn cool news. But this isn't just cool. This is the kind of fan-fucking-tastic stuff that makes my geek blood pump a little faster. I'll watch/read/eat anything Joss makes, so the idea of him returning to television is ludicrously cool. Add to that the fact that he's returning with Eliza Dushku at his side and I can't even think of words to describe my excitement. And Minear's on board now, too!? It just keeps getting better and better. I cannot wait to see this.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:13 p.m. CST

    wow, i feel sorry for you season 7 haterz

    by newc0253

    i really do.<p> it's like i understand some of your points: yes, there were some unanswered questions but they were pretty trivial ones: who left the talisman in the bathroom in 7.1? i don't know but frankly, i don't mind that much that i don't know. it's not like i spent the rest of the season waiting to find out. it's not nearly as frustrating as, say, trying to make sense of cordelia's motivations in Angel season 4<p> as for hating the ending, the ending was perfect. like chrth says, she spent the whole series feeling alienated by the burden of being the chosen, and now she's not.<p>

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:22 p.m. CST

    I think my comment was misunderstood...

    by DanielKurland

    I know Daylight would be the best time to have done their ambush, what I'm saying is, had the Ubervamps escaped,there wouldn't have been any real danger, as the school was OUTSIDE. Had the Hellmouth led to some sewer where they could be concealed, it would have been a different issue. And yes, this is nitpicky, but this was the series finale, I just thought there'd be some better planning. But then there's the whole idea of why would Angel send Wesley to fight one of the most powerful magicians alive, and send Illyria to deal with something that Wesley could have easily handled.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:35 p.m. CST


    by TattooedBillionaire

    Glad to see Joss back in the TV business.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:49 p.m. CST

    As Always..

    by chromedome

    A talkback ABOUT Whedon brings IN the Hater Monkey Trolls to dance for us.<p>Dance, Monkey-Trolls, DANCE!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Monkey Trolls come IN to a tb ABOUT Whedon

    by chromedome

    to say how annoying Whedon fans are to THEM<p>Putzes and Posers, One and All

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 3:02 p.m. CST

    newc0253: Let's hold off the hater label

    by chrth

    One is not a hater if he or she points out flaws and indicates why they are flaws. A hater is one who says 'This show sucks and people who watch it are morons'. I think in terms of season 7, most of us are just disappointed because it had a lot of potential but the execution was off.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 3:12 p.m. CST

    "lots of potential"

    by newc0253

    mmm, potentials. i'm just kidding ya about the haterz thing. but i do struggle to understand why y'all seem to look at the faults of season 7 through such a magnifying glass. certainly s7 had flaws but so did every season. it's not like season 6, say, where pretty much everyone agrees what the faults were.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Season 7

    by lecter1914

    Im late into the conversation, but to me Season 7 just seemed to be lacking the urgency and intimacy that everything pre season 6 had. In fact, it seemed like a better lit version of season 6. The first just did not seem like a viable threat at all and there was just so much going on in the story that the focus wasnt there. It felt like there was something missing every week. And then you introduce these characters that felt like they had no purpose other than to be plot devices..i.e. principle Wood and Kennedy who felt like a total slap in the face to the memory of Tara. And I initially liked the thought of the potentials. Gave the show some energy...but then when there was like 100 of them...I lost interest in the whole thread. It wasnt a bad season, had some highlights, but something was just missing. I remember being anxious for Buffy to go find Dawn and Glory at the tower...or being excited about Buffy going to kick some initiative and Adam ass....or even being nervous about the high school graduation. Season seven just didnt have anything that really moved me in any direction.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 3:41 p.m. CST

    I liked S7 well enough, the fact that it was the LAST

    by chromedome

    probably influenced both my enjoyment of it and magnified anything that seemed a bit off.<p>And in the right role, I think Dushku can really shine. Buffy was the right role for Gellar, and I don't think she is really doing as well in any other role. Let's hope Echo is The Role for Dusku.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Zerocorpse annoys me a LOT more than Shuttlepod

    by oisin5199

    No one's saying this will be the best show ever, but genuine fans are extremely excited to see Joss return to his best medium - television. Sorry if that annoys you. We'll try to temper our enthusiasm just for you. Oh wait, we won't! Eat it! This is freakin' awesome! I hope Joss is right that there's new people at the network now and the same shit won't happen again. But a seven episode commitment without reading a page of script? That says something about Joss' reputation. I guess Fox has 'faith'! The potential for any Joss show is amazing. Doesn't matter if some of the basic strokes have been done before, he will always make it his own. And I don't think Shuttlepod was actually banned, otherwise his posts wouldn't still be visible. Though I do think he's wrong about Mal and the crew of Firefly. Part of the problem with the movie was that Mal treated the crew so badly - you didn't see the camaraderie from the show. He may have been gruff on the show, but you can tell he genuinely cared about his crew. Oh, and season 7 wasn't a mess - there were some definite weaknesses in the short term (including the endless speeches that the writers themselves made fun of on the show) and the potentials were a distraction, but the broader arc and the way the show was resolved was, in Giles' words, 'bloody brilliant.'Anyway, I wonder if Joss will have to talk to David Mack about using the 'Echo' character name from Daredevil. Can't wait!!!!

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 4:01 p.m. CST

    If this is anything like...

    by OBSD

    the fan reaction to the Buffy comic announcement 2 years ago, the crazy Whedon fans will turn on Fox tonight and scream "WHERE IS IT?!?!?!?"

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 4:07 p.m. CST

    i nearly pissed my pants

    by Charlie Murphy

    but it's on fox, so i'm worried. i hope to christ that this show makes it out alive. but we've already been blessed with a successful pushing daisies this year. how many miracles can we hope for?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 4:10 p.m. CST

    If this is anything like...

    by chromedome

    every other TB here that has anything to do with Whedon, Hater Monkey-Trolls will come in to Dance for Us--oh, wait, it is EXACTLY like that aint it.<p>Dance Monkey-Trolls, DANCE

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 4:16 p.m. CST

    blaming SMG

    by burmafrd1944

    Of course elvis buys everything Whedon says or does no matter what. SMG made it clear early on in S7 she was not coming back for #8, and there was no way the the network was going to come up with the big bucks anyway for a show with declining ratings. So Elvis, you are so full of it. A spinoff was possible, but Dushku said no and that was that. Nothing else was even considered. You have a great opinion of yourself for thinking you know what hollywood talk is. Whedon was covering his butt for the reason that he knew like everyone else that season 7 was messed up and it was mostly his fault. Noxon had no business being put in any kind of responsible area- talk about a whacked out cracker!. SMG was ticked off because of the way her charactor was messed up in S6 (as everyone pretty much agreed) but Whedon said screw you to her. And you wonder why she had no interest in sticking around? She wanted out of a grind ( a one hour drama with action where she was in about 90% of the scenes is about the most exhausting work possible in show business and she had had enough). Its whedon's fault he screwed up that shows last two seasons and no one else.

  • ...after their inept promotion/support of Firefly.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 4:59 p.m. CST

    So FOX will cancel this how quickly then?

    by The Visco Kid

    I am almost certain comments like that have been made a dozen times or more already, but c'mon, it's FOX. They don't give a damn.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:17 p.m. CST

    I never understood why Whedon refused to letterbox Buffy

    by Neo Zeed

    He said that he wanted Buffy to remain "square." WTF? Anyway looking I'm really looking forward to his new project.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:24 p.m. CST

    I don't need no stinkin Dollhouse. I need Faith

    by Toby___Wong

    What the fuck is wrong with Whedon ? When he wanted to do Faith Dushku was Tru. Now that Dushku is available he comes up with this Dollhouse shit ? We want Faith, not some future high tech bullshit. We need an asswhooping, sassy, sultry and homicidal Faith. And Eliza. Slap that agent of yours around. You should have guest starred in Supernatural by now.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Buffy's Sixth and Seventh Seasons

    by Birdys Piano Teacher

    Were abominations. I wish everyone had had the guts to end it with season five. Then there would've only been one bad season (4) to forget about. The last truly great season was three, which had the most Dushku. Me likes.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Now we're arguing..

    by Jack Black

    ..about the merits of a series seventh season. Mind you most folks at AICN are sick of Heroes before the midpoint of season two.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 5:57 p.m. CST

    Jack Black: Don't confuse volume with quantity

    by chrth


  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Yeah,don't confuse Volume with Quantity...uh...

    by CatVutt

    Wait. We should probably back up.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:15 p.m. CST

    Lettering Buffy's Box.

    by CatVutt

    He didn't letterbox because he shot it with 4:3 aspect ratio in mind originally. That's all. He just wanted to keep it consistent. He was able to shoot Angel in widescreen from the beginning.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Love Whedon-HATE FOX!

    by xenaman

    After they killed Firefly? And Futurama? And Wonderfalls? And Arrested Development? How many times will they kill good shows before anyone wises up? WHY oh WHY does anyone bother with fucking fox? I hate them.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 7:37 p.m. CST

    ......if Lucas hires Whedon to write Star Wars

    by safe76

    ............he should stick him in the Delorean and send him back to go over the drafts for TPM, AOTC and ROTS. The themes of protecting the gifted child in TPM and Serenity have been discussed elsewhere here and are still valid. Serenity is much closer to the film I believe TPM should have been. This show, I'm not too excited about. Shame he couldn't resurrect Firefly.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 7:57 p.m. CST

    not that Lucas had anything to do with BTTF

    by safe76

    Don't know where that came from, wish I had a Delorean now.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:12 p.m. CST

    Trekkies vs. Trekkers

    by ZeroCorpse

    There's a difference. Same with "people who like some of Whedon's work" and "Whedonites"

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Chromedome. Re:

    by ZeroCorpse

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:21 p.m. CST

    Chromedome. Re: "Monkey Trolls"

    by ZeroCorpse

    You know, you've been using that "Dance, Monkey-Trolls, Dance" line for quite a while now. I just wondered if you realize it makes you look rather desperate and inept in your attempt to turn criticism around on the critics. <p> I mean-- "Monkey Trolls"?!?! Where did you come up with that compound phrase? Couldn't make up your mind which insult to use? <p> And then the whole "dance" thing... You're trying to make it look like we're doing exactly what you expect and want, in some lame reverse-psychology bid to drive us away. Forgive me if I'm not fooled by your clever ruse, but the fact is I know that you're annoyed when people pick on Whedon, and that you haven't got ANY ammunition to defend his weak-ass offerings, thus the whole "Dance Monkey-Trolls, Dance!" catchphrase. <p> It's just like a Whedonite to come up with a cutesy phrase and make every attempt to get it to stick by using it in every conversation.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Elvis Cole Lives...

    by Wittyninja

    Elvis, elvis, elvis... I'm not quite sure what research you've been doing or, for that matter where abouts you've been looking, but you're just...wrong. The idea that Joss is mad at Sarah for deciding not to come back is absurd. Everybody pretty much figured that season 7 was going to be its last at the end of season 6. I remember reading numerous articles at the time stating this very fact. They were basically just waiting for Sarah to confirm. IF (and I say "if" because I don't care how much "hollywood speak" you know, there's no way to confirm this...despite the fact that Joss may have stuttered slightly in one of his interviews when questioned about her), so IF there was bad blood between Joss and Sarah, it had nothing to do with her deciding to end the show. Maybe it was money. Maybe it was a disagreement about where the show went. Maybe they just didn't get along. But more importantly, Buffy was done as a show. Accept it. If it had gone on longer, it probably would not have been remembered by fans and critics as fondly as it is now. Yes, there was a decline in the last two seasons. It was still better than 99% of what was on TV at the time, but when comparing it to seasons 1-5, it did come off as less coherent of an arch. Personally, I think season 6 was about ten times worse than season 7 but that's just my opinion. Also, in defense once again of Gellar...people, c'mon. It's really hard staring in a tv show. She didn't get paid well. The show was getting bad ratings. She worked 6 days a week and was doing movies regularly and she had been doing this since she was 17 fucking years old. She had just gotten married and she wanted to try something NEW. Jesus Christ guys. Why are we crucifying her for this? But, since Elvis probably won't listen to a word I've said, perhaps she'll listen to the writers and actors themselves. "When Buffy ended, I was tapped out and ready to send it off..." -Joss Whedon He was pissed when Firefly ended. He was REALLY pissed when Angel ended. He was ready for Buffy to end and people agreed. "It was the best of shows, it was the worst of shows, but after seven seasons, Sarah Michelle Gellar had had enough, and so had we." -Television Without Pity Joss on Sarah: "It would be difficult to overemphasize Sarah's value to the show.'' Adds ''Buffy'' creator Joss Whedon: ''There've been times that we didn't get along. There have been times when we've palled around. But no matter what, she was the other half of 'Buffy.' In seven years, she never let me down.'' -Entertainment Weekly, Joss Whedon And, in case you're still not convinced: "It could happen," said Whedon. "I did that on Buffy. I was definitely done after seven years. A lot of people attribute that to [Sarah Michelle Gellar], but after seven years I was burnt out. I was just really worn down as we came into the seventh season. Of course we tried hard to make it great, but seven years is a long time and I was tired." -Joss Whedon I found all this out after spending fifteen minutes on google. Do the same before you post next time.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 8:57 p.m. CST

    Bask in it!!

    by Mose Schrute

    Every time anybody -- be it Time or Newsweek or TV Guide or Entertainment Weekly or Ain’t It Cool -- comes out with a list of the best TV series of all time, "Buffy" and "Firefly" are always there, and “Buffy” usually tops those lists. If you go to the websites for E! or TV Guide or Dark Horizons or TWOP or any other corner of the Internet, you will discover little beyond giddy rejoicing at this news. No one is going to remember Vern and the other two or three AICN talkbackers who inexplicably don’t revel in the genius of Whedon. Let them try to publicize their foolish disdain. Pity them as they crawl into whatever dark place they crawl to to watch Supernatural or Private Practice or Ugly Betty or Stargate or Brothers & Sisters or whatever other show they worship instead. Their protestations have already been discounted by history.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:15 p.m. CST

    I'm not a Whedonite...

    by chromedome

    but it is just like a Monkey Troll to come into a tb about Whedon to complain about how people who like Whedon annoy you.<p>Face it, Zerocorpse, YOU are the Turd in this Punchbowl<p>and you did the dance just as anticipated. Who is more predictable, people who like Whedon, or you for showing up in every such TB just to throw yourself in the punchbowl?

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Trust me Zero--your dancing is only expected and

    by chromedome

    inevitable, but not wanted at all.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:21 p.m. CST

    Whedon needs no defense against sewage spewers

    by chromedome

    like you, zero, and I make no effort to do so.<p>Rather, I am just pointed out, without naming anyone, some stupid trolling--you simply recognized yourself.

  • Nov. 1, 2007, 9:24 p.m. CST

    But I won't mention your name again here,

    by chromedome

    and we both know you will show up in every future tb about anything to do with Whedon, to spew your sewage.<p>Thanks for being so predictable, and for dancing for us, Monkey Troll (perhaps you prefer Punchbowl Turd?)

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 3:58 a.m. CST

    TPM & AOTC were better than Serenity?

    by safe76

    Not really, well, not at all.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 4:15 a.m. CST

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Joe 90 yet...

    by mehymeh

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 6:15 a.m. CST

    Whedon's triumphant return to TV...

    by 11dayempire

    ...or his retreat to the small screen, having left big-screen Hollywood with his tail tucked firmly between his legs?

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 7:28 a.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    I'm with you on the Whedonites thing - it IS scary how blinded to any intelligent criticism a Whedonite can be when news of a new Joss product comes out.<P> Newsflash, people. Joss Whedon wrote the original 1992 BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER movie - you know, the one all Whedonites are required to state their hatred for when they're sworn in - and ALIEN: RESURRECTION. Which sucked. And before ANYONE starts telling me different, I KNOW Joss has said, over and over again, that he was fucked over on both movies, where the script was altered and changed etc etc. So WHY DIDN'T YOU GET YOUR NAME TAKEN OFF THE SHIT? Always wondered about that.<P> And let's get some perspective, people. The whole POINT of Buffy was "dumb Valley girl is actually the Chosen One". Which is a very, very cool concept - if, within the firast few episodes of Season 1, you don't suddenly forget that whole eight word concept and start writing Buffy as being intelligent, insightful, brave, fairly clued up - generally NOT a dumb Valley girl. Say what you want about the Kristy Swanson movie (which I loved) - at least it stuck with the concept!<P> By BUFFY's painful end in Season 7, ANGEL was already pissing all over it. Then along came FIREFLY and SERENITY, which duly pissed all over the previous stuff.<P> Say what you like about Joss, but he IS getting better. Problem is, most Whedonites just cannot get past their BUFFY love. Get some critical faculties: that series, though groundbreaking in its time, wasn't really all that on repeat viewings. FIREFLY actually gets better on repeat viewing. And all this "Joss Whedon invented strong women for TV" would've been great were it not for THE BIONIC WOMAN, CHARLIE'S ANGELS etc in the 1970s - women who were intelligent, firecely beautiful and talented, doing their own thing in a male-dominated world.<P> And the most unspeakable thing of all: should he fuck this up, Whedon could well become the new Lucas. He already has the rabid fans - he just needs to utterly fuck up all his franchises in 3 movies and he, too, can join the ranks of Lucas and the Wachowskis in the "three strikes and I'm out" school of directorial fucknuggetry.<P> As for me, I have hope for the Whedon. He's a damn good writer on a good day, and his forte - in absolute opposition to what most Whedonites think - lies in the FIREFLY 'verse, NOT the Buffy and Angel-verse. Give us more FIREFLY!!!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 7:31 a.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    Zero's right, your "cute" Whedonisms such as Monkey-Trolls are more tiresome than cute. If there's one thing that got old in the Buffy universe REALLY quickly, it was the Whedonisms. For examples of how cutesy dialogue CAN be used well, see CLUELESS, FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH and FIREFLY. And A CLOCKWORK ORANGE takes a good stab at it too.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 8:19 a.m. CST

    This is good news.

    by rbatty024

    Whedon's area of expertise is serialized storytelling. In other words, he belongs in television. Why they don't just pick up Firefly I'll never know. Oh, and Spud, the point of Buffy was that she had previously been a dumb valley girl but as she accepts more responsibility her character changes. It's actually a wonderful character arc, something we don't see enough of these days. Although I agree that the original movie sucked and Alien: Resurrection also sucked (the first season of Buffy had some shaky episodes, but what series doesn't?). The guy's not infallible just really good at what he does.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9 a.m. CST

    Whedon does some things wel. However . . .

    by kabong

    I gave up on "Firefly" when Mal ordered the tough mercenary (Jayne?) to leave the dinner table because he'd implied some disparagement to the ship whore. <p> Situation from and for a 12-yr-old's perspective. <p> Merc should have left the table, put on a breathing mask, and popped life support to kill the rest of the crew. Now that would have kept me watching the series. If a story is supposed to be about tough people, then it should be HARD!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Reminds me of Gerry Anderson's "Joe 90"...

    by danowen

    Only with a gang of women instead of a speccy 10-year-old kid. I remember reading Whedon is a massive fan of The Matrix, so this also borrows the "downloading skills directly into your mind" aspect. Dushku knows kung fu!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Season 7 has its moments.

    by Barry Egan

    Overall it seems to kind of fade down the home stretch though. There is a lot of filler and then the finale seems to be rushed. It should have been a two hour or two part episode. I like 7 better than 6. I think season 6 works in theory much better than in practice. There are some really cool ideas in it but they work better as ideas and not as drama.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 3:10 p.m. CST

    I used to bag on Whedon relentlessly

    by I am_NOTREAL

    because I thought he was so overhyped, and I've never seen a minute of "Firefly," but I've gotta admit that "Serenity" was a solidly enjoyable SF flick.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 4:33 p.m. CST


    by Quin the Eskimo

    You can't get to mad about Arrested Development being cancled. They gave it three years to try and find an audience, and it never got the ratings it deserved. Same as Veronica Mars. I'd like to get mad but they gave it as fair a shake as you could ask for.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 4:43 p.m. CST


    by genre.comeback

    I will never understand why people enter a talkback to trash the subject. What do you gain from stomping on other people's happiness? A false sense of superiority? Apparently nothing better to do. Maybe you want to look into that. I love Whedon. Doesn't mean I can't see when something he's involved in takes a dip, but so far I have not been disappointed by anything he's done. And for God's sake, how can people not be thrilled with the idea of him returning to TV? Have they been watching the utter crap this year? Lost gave the genre show a bit of a revival, but since then it hasn't been remotely done right (I enjoy Heroes on a superficial level, but it in no way lives up to its enormous potential). Thank you Whedon and co. Please save me from the boredom that is television this year. People who don't like Whedon, I just kind of feel sorry for you. What do you have to look forward to regarding the TV landscape?

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 4:47 p.m. CST

    I stand corrected, KanekoFan.

    by kabong

    That makes it more acceptable. <p> But still too weak for me. <p> I would've shot Mal, just to look tough.

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 4:51 p.m. CST

    And it's nothing like Alias

    by genre.comeback

    From what I've read, he said it was an illegal institution whereby richie riches can pay to have their elaborate fantasies played out with others, who are programmed for the fantasy and then have their memories erased. Not this link, I can't remember where I got that Whedon discusses it at eonline. I thought it was intriguing, although if you stretch far enough, anything's a rip off. Then wouldn't Alias be a rip off of Mission:Impossible? Or any other spy show? I agree with other's here who have said it's all about the execution baby!

  • Nov. 2, 2007, 9:59 p.m. CST


    by buffywrestling

    Kabong: Jayne is not a mercenary. Although you could classify him as a "hired gun", he is in fact just an ex-thief whose good with a gun. Mal is a Captain who fought in the war and is given respect due to him (from some). Plus, you don't ever, EVER, be mean to Kaylee!! ;) <p> I've read that too (re: downloading fanatsies)which makes much more sense with the title, if you think about it. Rich (or people who borrowed money, stole money, won money, etc) people purchace these "dolls" to do an "assignment" for them, then they are returned to the "Dollhouse" and erased. Most people will be thinking sex, and I'm sure there will be some, but Joss has also said that there could be sentimental,dangerous or illeagl "assignments". You could easily have a soppy or a suspenseful story one week and a humourous one the next.

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 10:35 a.m. CST

    I just read a book

    by chrisco

    that had a similar plot to this dollhouse show

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 12:48 p.m. CST

    I'm excited but...

    by BeatsMe

    What's with the terrible name?

  • Nov. 3, 2007, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Whedon has battered wife syndrome...

    by Boromir187

    Joss keeps getting kicked, beaten, and all-around abused by Fox.........yet keeps coming back for more! Sure, he'll move out for awhile, but he always comes back. As for Tim Minear, he's the battered child in the relationship. When will they learn? Buffy? Firefly? Angel? Drive? When will it be enough?